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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:01,335 --> 00:00:02,901 BEN: They hacked corporations. 2 00:00:03,003 --> 00:00:06,171 None of these targets were particularly difficult to hack. 3 00:00:06,273 --> 00:00:07,839 A 3-year-old could do it. 4 00:00:07,942 --> 00:00:09,608 They challenged governments. 5 00:00:09,710 --> 00:00:12,811 Any method of disruption at any cost, any means necessary. 6 00:00:12,913 --> 00:00:14,513 They wanted to change the world. 7 00:00:18,619 --> 00:00:20,085 But after a series of arrests 8 00:00:20,187 --> 00:00:21,453 and an informant on the inside... 9 00:00:21,555 --> 00:00:23,288 I was arrested when I was 16 years old. 10 00:00:23,390 --> 00:00:24,756 Police broke down the front door, 11 00:00:24,858 --> 00:00:26,158 handcuffed me in my bed. 12 00:00:26,260 --> 00:00:27,759 ...who is Anonymous now? 13 00:00:29,163 --> 00:00:39,171 ♪ 14 00:00:58,892 --> 00:01:02,794 I'm calling Jeremy Hammond, a legendary Anonymous hacker. 15 00:01:02,896 --> 00:01:04,863 Hammond is serving a 10-year prison sentence 16 00:01:04,965 --> 00:01:06,698 for hacking a private intelligence firm. 17 00:01:08,702 --> 00:01:10,035 Jeremy, how you doing? It's Ben. 18 00:01:27,721 --> 00:01:29,154 You can't finish this call? 19 00:01:32,259 --> 00:01:33,425 You gotta go? 20 00:01:33,527 --> 00:01:35,260 Okay, are you gonna call back? 21 00:01:37,364 --> 00:01:39,097 Okay, alright. Thanks, man. 22 00:01:39,199 --> 00:01:40,365 Good luck. 23 00:01:40,467 --> 00:01:41,900 (Beeping) 24 00:01:44,104 --> 00:01:45,270 Well, that was bullshit. 25 00:01:46,540 --> 00:01:47,873 VOICE: Greetings, citizens of the world. 26 00:01:47,975 --> 00:01:49,875 VOICE: Hello, Congress of the United States. 27 00:01:49,977 --> 00:01:52,377 VOICE: Hello, leaders of Scientology. 28 00:01:52,479 --> 00:01:53,912 BEN: Anonymous. 29 00:01:54,014 --> 00:01:56,448 It's a brand, a meme, and a movement. 30 00:01:56,550 --> 00:01:58,016 VOICE: We are Anonymous. 31 00:01:58,118 --> 00:01:59,384 We are legion. 32 00:01:59,486 --> 00:02:00,686 We do not forgive. 33 00:02:00,788 --> 00:02:02,187 We do not forget. 34 00:02:02,289 --> 00:02:03,855 Expect us. 35 00:02:03,957 --> 00:02:06,425 BEN: For almost a decade they've hacked into corporations, 36 00:02:06,527 --> 00:02:09,594 stolen private information, and shut down websites. 37 00:02:11,298 --> 00:02:13,465 Their signature is instantly recognizable, 38 00:02:13,567 --> 00:02:16,268 the Guy Fawkes mask from the movie V For Vendetta, 39 00:02:16,370 --> 00:02:19,471 which was based on the graphic novel series of the same name. 40 00:02:19,573 --> 00:02:22,708 The real Guy Fawkes was executed in 1606 for conspiring 41 00:02:22,810 --> 00:02:25,544 to kill the king and blow up the British Parliament. 42 00:02:25,646 --> 00:02:27,546 I went to talk with Gabriella Coleman, 43 00:02:27,648 --> 00:02:30,882 an anthropologist who wrote the definitive book on Anonymous. 44 00:02:30,984 --> 00:02:33,819 Full disclosure: she's also a consultant on this show. 45 00:02:35,389 --> 00:02:37,556 GABRIELLA: They're ghostly, they're spectral, 46 00:02:37,658 --> 00:02:41,293 they're mysterious, they're controversial, they're radical. 47 00:02:41,395 --> 00:02:43,128 It's a protest movement. 48 00:02:43,230 --> 00:02:46,331 It's not about long-term structural change. 49 00:02:46,433 --> 00:02:50,235 It's about getting people excited for activism, 50 00:02:50,337 --> 00:02:51,837 which is incredibly important, 51 00:02:51,939 --> 00:02:56,074 and then I think their most kind of constructive contribution 52 00:02:56,176 --> 00:03:00,011 has to do with the leaking of information, whistleblowing. 53 00:03:00,114 --> 00:03:02,180 But that's not how Anonymous started out. 54 00:03:02,282 --> 00:03:05,117 Back in the early 2000s, a group of trolls banded together 55 00:03:05,219 --> 00:03:08,086 on a web forum called 4Chan, taking their name 56 00:03:08,188 --> 00:03:11,490 from the default ID many used to post: Anonymous. 57 00:03:11,592 --> 00:03:15,927 Anonymous was never meant to become an activist phenomena. 58 00:03:16,029 --> 00:03:18,964 Today it's identified with politics, with activism, 59 00:03:19,066 --> 00:03:23,769 but its roots are in the offensive, 60 00:03:23,871 --> 00:03:27,506 sometimes terrifying, sometimes humourous world 61 00:03:27,608 --> 00:03:29,674 of internet trolling. 62 00:03:29,777 --> 00:03:33,044 Trolling is the time-honoured practice of online baiting. 63 00:03:33,147 --> 00:03:36,148 And in 2008, Anonymous found an easy target. 64 00:03:36,250 --> 00:03:38,283 It started with a video featuring the world's 65 00:03:38,385 --> 00:03:42,454 most famous Scientologist, a very enthusiastic Tom Cruise. 66 00:03:42,556 --> 00:03:44,956 (Maniacal laughing) 67 00:03:45,058 --> 00:03:47,192 The Church of Scientology was trying to get this video, 68 00:03:47,294 --> 00:03:50,462 apparently leaked by a church insider, off the internet. 69 00:03:50,564 --> 00:03:52,697 And the Church of Scientology threatened 70 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,301 all sorts of publishers like Gawker with lawsuits 71 00:03:56,403 --> 00:03:58,303 if they didn't take down the video. 72 00:03:58,405 --> 00:04:02,040 And it was at this moment that Anonymous decides to target the 73 00:04:02,142 --> 00:04:05,644 Church of Scientology with one of these trolling campaigns. 74 00:04:05,746 --> 00:04:08,146 And in this case, it was... I like to refer to it as 75 00:04:08,248 --> 00:04:11,683 the Mothership Trolling Campaign that Anonymous engaged in. 76 00:04:11,785 --> 00:04:17,489 They prank-called a Scientology Dianetics hotline. 77 00:04:17,591 --> 00:04:22,327 They sent hundreds of pizzas to churches across North America. 78 00:04:22,429 --> 00:04:25,931 They sent black faxes to all the churches. 79 00:04:27,267 --> 00:04:29,768 Then, Anonymous hit Scientology websites with what's called 80 00:04:29,870 --> 00:04:33,505 a Distributed Denial of Service, or DDoS. 81 00:04:33,607 --> 00:04:35,340 A DDoS attack floods a website 82 00:04:35,442 --> 00:04:37,709 with so much traffic that it crashes. 83 00:04:37,811 --> 00:04:39,711 When the attack stops, the site can come back up 84 00:04:39,813 --> 00:04:41,513 without any permanent damage. 85 00:04:42,950 --> 00:04:46,017 And it was during the course of that campaign that they also 86 00:04:46,119 --> 00:04:49,254 then started to debate whether they should kind of earnestly 87 00:04:49,356 --> 00:04:51,857 protest the Church of Scientology not for the sake of 88 00:04:51,959 --> 00:04:56,795 trolling, but for the kind of sake of, you know, activism. 89 00:04:57,731 --> 00:04:59,464 For the first time, Anonymous was considering 90 00:04:59,566 --> 00:05:01,233 real political action. 91 00:05:01,335 --> 00:05:03,435 And then came a fateful step. 92 00:05:03,537 --> 00:05:05,971 The collective called for a worldwide street protest 93 00:05:06,073 --> 00:05:09,641 against Scientology, and thousands actually showed up. 94 00:05:09,743 --> 00:05:12,544 Anonymous' next big op was just as political. 95 00:05:12,646 --> 00:05:14,379 It morphed from an anti-copyright movement 96 00:05:14,481 --> 00:05:16,548 into a massive campaign to defend WikiLeaks 97 00:05:16,650 --> 00:05:19,050 and its founder, Julian Assange. 98 00:05:19,152 --> 00:05:22,120 In November 2010, WikiLeaks began publishing a trove 99 00:05:22,222 --> 00:05:25,557 of leaked diplomatic cables, classified dispatches between 100 00:05:25,659 --> 00:05:28,059 American embassies and the State Department. 101 00:05:28,161 --> 00:05:30,228 Visa, MasterCard and PayPal 102 00:05:30,330 --> 00:05:32,898 stopped processing donations to WikiLeaks. 103 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,668 Anonymous struck back with what they called Op Payback. 104 00:05:37,938 --> 00:05:41,806 That operation was, and I still think is, 105 00:05:41,909 --> 00:05:46,745 the largest protest DDoS that the internet has ever seen. 106 00:05:46,847 --> 00:05:50,749 You had over 7,000 people that showed up on the chat channel 107 00:05:50,851 --> 00:05:53,018 where activity was organized. 108 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,153 It was monumental DDoS. 109 00:05:55,255 --> 00:05:58,757 Multi-day against Visa, PayPal, MasterCard. 110 00:06:01,528 --> 00:06:03,795 Op Payback put Anonymous on the world stage, 111 00:06:03,897 --> 00:06:05,897 and put them on the FBI's radar. 112 00:06:07,701 --> 00:06:09,634 As the bureau's top official in cyber crime, 113 00:06:09,736 --> 00:06:12,337 Shawn Henry watched Anonymous rise. 114 00:06:12,439 --> 00:06:14,105 He retired in 2012. 115 00:06:15,208 --> 00:06:18,376 What was it like when you first encountered Anonymous? 116 00:06:18,478 --> 00:06:21,313 Anonymous, I mean, just the very name, right? 117 00:06:21,415 --> 00:06:23,882 Who is it that we're trying to investigate? 118 00:06:23,984 --> 00:06:25,517 Where do they reside? 119 00:06:25,619 --> 00:06:27,152 Who do they associate with? 120 00:06:27,254 --> 00:06:30,288 This is a group that's been widely dispersed 121 00:06:30,390 --> 00:06:33,124 around the country, and has been pretty good about 122 00:06:33,226 --> 00:06:36,328 keeping themselves off the grid as individuals. 123 00:06:36,430 --> 00:06:38,229 What about what they actually do? 124 00:06:38,332 --> 00:06:40,465 'Cause a lot of it's just like a DDoS attack. 125 00:06:40,567 --> 00:06:42,534 Is that really all that bad? 126 00:06:42,636 --> 00:06:46,304 We're seeing a new form of social protest, and that is 127 00:06:46,406 --> 00:06:50,976 people taking advantage of their technical skills 128 00:06:51,078 --> 00:06:56,014 to object in a loud sort of way to social 129 00:06:56,116 --> 00:06:59,851 and political practices that they deem objectionable. 130 00:06:59,953 --> 00:07:02,988 I mean, a lot of that activity is illegal under our existing 131 00:07:03,090 --> 00:07:07,425 law, and there are authorized ways that people can protest. 132 00:07:07,527 --> 00:07:12,097 Using the network to disrupt organizations or to breach data 133 00:07:12,199 --> 00:07:15,867 and to steal it is not one of those ways. 134 00:07:15,969 --> 00:07:19,537 By 2011, Anonymous had gone from a fringe group of trolls 135 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:21,573 to a global political force. 136 00:07:22,943 --> 00:07:24,376 The collective attacked the websites 137 00:07:24,478 --> 00:07:27,012 of repressive governments to support the Arab Spring, 138 00:07:27,114 --> 00:07:30,382 took to the streets as part of the Occupy Wall Street movement, 139 00:07:30,484 --> 00:07:33,885 and hacked corporations and law enforcement along the way. 140 00:07:33,987 --> 00:07:35,854 But to understand who Anonymous is now, 141 00:07:35,956 --> 00:07:38,356 I had to meet some of them... in person. 142 00:07:41,695 --> 00:07:44,095 BEN: Anonymous is basically a network of online trolls 143 00:07:44,197 --> 00:07:46,531 that became a global force to be reckoned with. 144 00:07:46,633 --> 00:07:49,100 They usually organize on a network of online chat channels 145 00:07:49,202 --> 00:07:51,870 called IRC using aliases. 146 00:07:51,972 --> 00:07:54,105 But that doesn't mean they never meet in person. 147 00:07:54,207 --> 00:07:56,141 And Chaos Communication Camp, 148 00:07:56,243 --> 00:07:59,044 a hacker gathering that only happens once every 4 years, 149 00:07:59,146 --> 00:08:01,312 turned out to be a bit of a reunion party. 150 00:08:01,415 --> 00:08:03,615 Some of the people I met 151 00:08:03,717 --> 00:08:05,483 have never been interviewed on camera before. 152 00:08:05,585 --> 00:08:07,786 My name is Mercedes "N0" Haefer, 153 00:08:07,888 --> 00:08:11,690 and I have two State National Bowling Championships. 154 00:08:12,926 --> 00:08:14,325 I'm Keith. 155 00:08:14,428 --> 00:08:16,294 I'm the prettiest PayPal 14 defendant. 156 00:08:16,396 --> 00:08:19,464 And I'm Panda, and I'm the King of Sweden. 157 00:08:19,566 --> 00:08:20,799 (Giggling) 158 00:08:20,901 --> 00:08:23,301 N0, Keth and Anon Panda took part in Anonymous' 159 00:08:23,403 --> 00:08:27,238 legendary attack against PayPal, Visa and MasterCard 160 00:08:27,340 --> 00:08:29,808 in support of WikiLeaks and its founder, Julian Assange. 161 00:08:29,910 --> 00:08:35,046 I mean, I don't like him as a person, but... 162 00:08:35,148 --> 00:08:36,414 that doesn't mean he doesn't have rights, 163 00:08:36,516 --> 00:08:38,550 and that doesn't mean I won't fight for his rights. 164 00:08:38,652 --> 00:08:41,019 Because if he doesn't have rights, 165 00:08:41,121 --> 00:08:42,487 then I don't have rights. 166 00:08:42,589 --> 00:08:45,023 Everybody has them, or they're just privileges. 167 00:08:45,125 --> 00:08:50,528 So if I want to be able to publish secret government data 168 00:08:50,630 --> 00:08:54,265 that everyone should know, then I also have to defend Assange. 169 00:08:54,367 --> 00:08:56,401 But some within Anonymous weren't as interested 170 00:08:56,503 --> 00:08:58,536 in politics as they were in "lulz", 171 00:08:58,638 --> 00:09:02,006 internet slang for hilarity, and LulzSec was a small 172 00:09:02,109 --> 00:09:03,842 breakaway group of Anonymous members 173 00:09:03,944 --> 00:09:06,277 who just wanted some lulz at the system's expense. 174 00:09:08,348 --> 00:09:12,083 Quite frankly, hackers get bored, and there's nothing-- 175 00:09:12,185 --> 00:09:15,120 there's nothing more dangerous than a bored hacker, because 176 00:09:15,222 --> 00:09:18,089 they'll make themselves not bored very ----ing quickly. 177 00:09:19,326 --> 00:09:22,026 Darren Martyn took part in both Anonymous and LulzSec, 178 00:09:22,129 --> 00:09:24,295 going by the name pwnsauce. 179 00:09:24,397 --> 00:09:27,198 "Pwning" something can mean that you've hacked it completely. 180 00:09:27,300 --> 00:09:29,234 When it all really started kicking off, 181 00:09:29,336 --> 00:09:31,436 the LulzSec thing was just when I was turning 19. 182 00:09:31,538 --> 00:09:33,972 So pretty much the same as most of the people involved. 183 00:09:34,074 --> 00:09:35,974 We were all kids basically. 184 00:09:36,076 --> 00:09:38,476 So we just kinda split off and did our own thing. 185 00:09:38,578 --> 00:09:40,145 And then... 186 00:09:40,247 --> 00:09:42,814 well, you know, it just kinda took on a life of its own. 187 00:09:43,817 --> 00:09:45,250 Who were some of LulzSec's targets, 188 00:09:45,352 --> 00:09:47,218 and why'd you guys decide on them? 189 00:10:04,237 --> 00:10:07,806 tflow was a respected Anonymous member and a talented hacker. 190 00:10:07,908 --> 00:10:11,876 He was also part of LulzSec, all at the age of 16. 191 00:10:13,346 --> 00:10:16,147 In the summer of 2011, LulzSec went on a hacking spree. 192 00:10:16,249 --> 00:10:19,784 They DDoSed the websites of the CIA and the Senate, 193 00:10:19,886 --> 00:10:22,320 hacked an FBI association called InfraGard, 194 00:10:22,422 --> 00:10:25,590 and published a fake story on PBS NewsHour's site. 195 00:10:25,692 --> 00:10:28,426 They also redirected the UK newspaper The Sun 196 00:10:28,528 --> 00:10:30,829 to a fake obituary... for its owner. 197 00:10:32,365 --> 00:10:35,600 None of these targets were particularly difficult to hack. 198 00:10:35,702 --> 00:10:37,302 A 3-year-old could do it. 199 00:10:37,404 --> 00:10:40,939 I mean, senate.gov was one of the simplest hacks 200 00:10:41,041 --> 00:10:42,607 ever pulled off. 201 00:10:42,709 --> 00:10:44,108 It was like the '90s called; 202 00:10:44,211 --> 00:10:46,110 it wants its ----ing security vulnerabilities back. 203 00:11:06,566 --> 00:11:08,499 Well, it just seems like justice, like you said. 204 00:11:08,602 --> 00:11:11,469 If they're hacking, then why not let us hack them? 205 00:11:15,742 --> 00:11:16,975 Both LulzSec and Anonymous 206 00:11:17,077 --> 00:11:19,310 needed servers to organize online. 207 00:11:19,412 --> 00:11:21,012 And since corporate servers would just shut them down 208 00:11:21,114 --> 00:11:22,981 or turn them over to the police, 209 00:11:23,083 --> 00:11:24,816 the collective built its own network. 210 00:11:24,918 --> 00:11:27,051 That's where Chris Weatherhead came in. 211 00:11:27,153 --> 00:11:29,320 He helped establish AnonOps, 212 00:11:29,422 --> 00:11:31,256 the collective's main network of chatrooms. 213 00:11:32,959 --> 00:11:34,359 So you ran the servers that Anonymous used 214 00:11:34,461 --> 00:11:35,660 for their operations? 215 00:11:35,762 --> 00:11:37,862 Yes, so I ran... yeah, servers that they used 216 00:11:37,964 --> 00:11:39,664 for a few of their operations. 217 00:11:39,766 --> 00:11:44,402 Probably most notably the ones relating to Operation Payback, 218 00:11:44,504 --> 00:11:47,505 the Operation Avenge Assange, stuff in the Arab Spring 219 00:11:47,607 --> 00:11:51,075 like the Operation Tunisia, helping the Tunisian people, 220 00:11:51,177 --> 00:11:53,544 Operation Egypt, helping people get back online 221 00:11:53,647 --> 00:11:56,014 when Mubarak cut them off. 222 00:11:56,116 --> 00:11:58,249 Did you develop pretty close friendships with certain people? 223 00:11:58,351 --> 00:12:02,186 None of us knew who anyone else really was. 224 00:12:02,289 --> 00:12:07,525 So there's sort of a crossover between friendship and trust. 225 00:12:07,627 --> 00:12:11,229 You reach a point where you're implicitly trusting people with 226 00:12:11,331 --> 00:12:15,466 information, and therefore you are essentially befriending them 227 00:12:15,568 --> 00:12:17,635 because you only trust your friends. 228 00:12:17,737 --> 00:12:19,404 Trust was important, since all of this was illegal 229 00:12:19,506 --> 00:12:21,072 and the heat was on. 230 00:12:21,174 --> 00:12:24,475 In 2011, law enforcement around the world located and arrested 231 00:12:24,577 --> 00:12:27,011 several members of LulzSec and Anonymous, 232 00:12:27,113 --> 00:12:29,647 laying dozens of charges for their high-profile hacks. 233 00:12:33,486 --> 00:12:34,886 So when the police turned up at my house, 234 00:12:34,988 --> 00:12:36,387 it was a highly unpleasant experience. 235 00:12:36,489 --> 00:12:39,090 They kind of gave it the whole TV treatment, 236 00:12:39,192 --> 00:12:40,425 I guess you could call it. 237 00:12:40,527 --> 00:12:43,127 They sent in the whole, you know... 238 00:12:43,229 --> 00:12:44,729 lots of people shouting really loudly 239 00:12:44,831 --> 00:12:46,898 with, you know, firearms and shit. 240 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,434 I guess they were afraid that laptops were wired to explode 241 00:12:49,536 --> 00:12:51,402 or some crazy shit like that. 242 00:12:51,504 --> 00:12:53,838 Or that, you know, I'd have a delete button which would 243 00:12:53,940 --> 00:12:55,573 make all of the evidence disappear or something. 244 00:12:55,675 --> 00:12:58,409 Police broke down the front door, came in, 245 00:12:58,511 --> 00:13:01,646 arrested me in my bed, handcuffed me in my bed. 246 00:13:03,683 --> 00:13:05,950 They all seemed so surprised that 247 00:13:06,052 --> 00:13:09,587 my computer and everything around it was off. 248 00:13:09,689 --> 00:13:10,922 Of course it's off! 249 00:13:11,024 --> 00:13:12,824 It's 7:00 in the f... morning! 250 00:13:12,926 --> 00:13:14,993 (Laughing) 251 00:13:15,095 --> 00:13:16,761 What would you expect? 252 00:13:16,863 --> 00:13:19,297 And me personally, I was just arrested because... 253 00:13:19,399 --> 00:13:21,265 'Cause you're so pretty! 254 00:13:21,368 --> 00:13:22,800 It's 'cause you're so pretty. 255 00:13:22,902 --> 00:13:24,602 N0 and Keth were arrested, 256 00:13:24,704 --> 00:13:26,838 but narrowly avoided doing major time. 257 00:13:26,940 --> 00:13:28,840 tflow was too young to go to prison, 258 00:13:28,942 --> 00:13:30,808 pwnsauce got off with a fine, 259 00:13:30,910 --> 00:13:33,411 and Chris spent 4-and-a-half months behind bars. 260 00:13:33,513 --> 00:13:35,913 But there were much harsher sentences to come. 261 00:13:39,119 --> 00:13:40,518 BEN: Anonymous was on a roll. 262 00:13:40,620 --> 00:13:44,422 That is, until a series of arrests in 2011 and 2012. 263 00:13:44,524 --> 00:13:46,357 But for members of the collective, 264 00:13:46,459 --> 00:13:48,393 there was more shocking news to come; 265 00:13:48,495 --> 00:13:51,629 many of these arrests were made possible by an informant. 266 00:13:51,731 --> 00:13:54,932 Hector Xavier Monsegur, otherwise known as Sabu, 267 00:13:55,035 --> 00:13:57,702 was a vocal member of Anonymous and LulzSec. 268 00:13:57,804 --> 00:13:59,637 Many considered him a friend. 269 00:13:59,739 --> 00:14:00,872 You met Sabu. 270 00:14:00,974 --> 00:14:03,141 What was that like, and what was he like? 271 00:14:03,243 --> 00:14:05,777 Sabu is such an interesting character. 272 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,114 He was really involved in Anonymous. 273 00:14:10,216 --> 00:14:12,417 He was very charismatic. 274 00:14:12,519 --> 00:14:15,720 His personality online was larger than life. 275 00:14:15,822 --> 00:14:18,923 It was why he was so effective as an informant. 276 00:14:19,025 --> 00:14:22,627 Some of his peers and colleagues, you know, 277 00:14:22,729 --> 00:14:24,462 described him as "legend". 278 00:14:24,564 --> 00:14:28,433 Why do you think he ratted out his friends and his peers? 279 00:14:28,535 --> 00:14:31,469 Sabu was put in a difficult situation. 280 00:14:31,571 --> 00:14:36,674 When the FBI showed up at his house, they basically said, 281 00:14:36,776 --> 00:14:41,012 "Look, work for us or we will take your foster kids 282 00:14:41,114 --> 00:14:45,349 away from you, and away from your family entirely." 283 00:14:45,452 --> 00:14:48,486 And he took the deal that was given to him, and started 284 00:14:48,588 --> 00:14:51,656 almost immediately to work for the FBI. 285 00:14:51,758 --> 00:14:54,125 Sabu not only led the FBI to LulzSec, 286 00:14:54,227 --> 00:14:56,694 but to one of Anonymous' most brilliant hackers, 287 00:14:56,796 --> 00:14:59,497 a 27-year-old named Jeremy Hammond. 288 00:14:59,599 --> 00:15:01,132 Hammond was the real deal: 289 00:15:01,234 --> 00:15:03,968 a radical anarchist as active in the streets as he was online; 290 00:15:04,070 --> 00:15:07,138 a hacktivist way before Anonymous was even a thing. 291 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,807 And we believe that the internet is a powerful new medium 292 00:15:09,909 --> 00:15:13,444 where just a handful of people in small groups, 293 00:15:13,546 --> 00:15:15,980 just by shifting data around in the right directions, 294 00:15:16,082 --> 00:15:18,116 can make big changes and big damage. 295 00:15:18,218 --> 00:15:21,452 Any method of disruption at any cost, any means necessary. 296 00:15:21,554 --> 00:15:24,021 Hammond helped launch Op AntiSec, 297 00:15:24,124 --> 00:15:26,390 which targeted police departments and what he calls 298 00:15:26,493 --> 00:15:28,826 the national security complex. 299 00:15:28,928 --> 00:15:31,529 Sabu was also a major player in AntiSec, 300 00:15:31,631 --> 00:15:34,298 all while working for the FBI. 301 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,501 With the feds watching his every move, 302 00:15:36,603 --> 00:15:38,970 Sabu introduced Hammond to a hacker who had found a way 303 00:15:39,072 --> 00:15:42,406 into Stratfor, a massive global intelligence firm. 304 00:15:42,509 --> 00:15:44,809 Hammond then hacked Stratfor, stealing thousands of 305 00:15:44,911 --> 00:15:46,878 credit card numbers and millions of emails. 306 00:15:46,980 --> 00:15:48,746 He was arrested for the hack, 307 00:15:48,848 --> 00:15:51,215 and is now serving a 10-year sentence in federal prison. 308 00:15:52,085 --> 00:15:53,551 VOICE: Dial 5 now. 309 00:15:55,655 --> 00:15:57,255 Yo, what's going on? You okay? 310 00:15:59,092 --> 00:16:01,025 So just-- I'll get right to it. 311 00:16:01,127 --> 00:16:02,727 Why'd you hack Stratfor? 312 00:16:23,950 --> 00:16:25,683 Why don't you tell me about Sabu. 313 00:16:25,785 --> 00:16:28,152 What was his role in all this? 314 00:16:43,336 --> 00:16:45,036 How'd that make you feel? 315 00:17:16,336 --> 00:17:18,069 BEN: I asked Sabu to tell his side of the story, 316 00:17:18,171 --> 00:17:20,671 but he declined to talk to me on the record. 317 00:17:20,773 --> 00:17:22,573 After Hammond hacked Stratfor, 318 00:17:22,675 --> 00:17:24,575 he leaked the company's emails to WikiLeaks. 319 00:17:24,677 --> 00:17:27,645 The emails revealed Stratfor had monitored activists worldwide. 320 00:17:28,715 --> 00:17:34,652 WikiLeaks begins its release of 5,000 emails documenting 321 00:17:34,754 --> 00:17:40,491 the private lives and private lies of private spies. 322 00:17:41,894 --> 00:17:43,494 But one question still remains: 323 00:17:43,596 --> 00:17:45,596 This whole time, the FBI had an informant, 324 00:17:45,698 --> 00:17:47,665 so why did it let Stratfor get hacked? 325 00:17:49,435 --> 00:17:51,269 The FBI could've done something about that, 326 00:17:51,371 --> 00:17:53,437 they could've prevented all this damage from happening. 327 00:17:53,539 --> 00:17:55,773 But no, they were more interested in entrapping people, 328 00:17:55,875 --> 00:17:58,476 and you know, ensnaring people in doing things. 329 00:17:58,578 --> 00:18:00,111 While they could've stopped things 330 00:18:00,213 --> 00:18:02,213 and done crime prevention, instead they thought, 331 00:18:02,315 --> 00:18:04,148 "---- it, we're gonna entrap everyone." 332 00:18:04,250 --> 00:18:07,018 I mean, that... they completely burned Stratfor. 333 00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:09,954 And you know, the FBI need to have a good look at themselves 334 00:18:10,056 --> 00:18:13,891 and go, you know, "What ----ing moral high horse do we have 335 00:18:13,993 --> 00:18:16,294 to stand on when we're using other people as bait?" 336 00:18:17,930 --> 00:18:20,164 After the high-profile arrests of some of its core members, 337 00:18:20,266 --> 00:18:22,333 Anonymous was at a crossroads. 338 00:18:22,435 --> 00:18:23,768 But that made some of its hackers 339 00:18:23,870 --> 00:18:25,536 more determined than ever. 340 00:18:28,041 --> 00:18:30,641 BEN: Sabu's betrayal broke trust within Anonymous. 341 00:18:30,743 --> 00:18:32,943 Anyone can be an informant. 342 00:18:33,046 --> 00:18:34,979 And security expert Robert Hansen believes 343 00:18:35,081 --> 00:18:37,014 the group has been infiltrated. 344 00:18:37,116 --> 00:18:38,716 I know that there are certain governments who have 345 00:18:38,818 --> 00:18:40,951 a keen interest at not only infiltrating them, 346 00:18:41,054 --> 00:18:43,387 but flipping people inside Anonymous 347 00:18:43,489 --> 00:18:45,056 and turning them against one another. 348 00:18:45,158 --> 00:18:47,992 And you're saying that signals intelligence agencies 349 00:18:48,094 --> 00:18:51,529 around the world will try to compromise Anonymous? 350 00:18:51,631 --> 00:18:52,863 Yes. 351 00:18:52,965 --> 00:18:54,665 Which ones in particular? 352 00:18:54,767 --> 00:18:56,067 At this point, most of them. 353 00:18:56,169 --> 00:18:57,335 (Laughing) 354 00:18:57,437 --> 00:18:59,870 Yeah, I've actually sat in meetings 355 00:18:59,972 --> 00:19:02,373 where people have actively talked about doing that. 356 00:19:02,475 --> 00:19:05,810 And not as a "we could", as in "we are". 357 00:19:05,912 --> 00:19:09,080 So Anonymous is essentially as clean as a public swimming pool? 358 00:19:09,182 --> 00:19:10,581 (Laughing) 359 00:19:10,683 --> 00:19:11,649 I don't know if I'd put it that way. 360 00:19:11,751 --> 00:19:13,050 (Laughing) 361 00:19:13,152 --> 00:19:15,152 But what I do know is that it would be too dangerous 362 00:19:15,254 --> 00:19:16,987 for a guy like me to ever consider being involved with 363 00:19:17,090 --> 00:19:18,422 at this point. 364 00:19:18,524 --> 00:19:19,557 If I were apart of Anonymous right now, 365 00:19:19,659 --> 00:19:21,392 I would burn everything and walk away, 366 00:19:21,494 --> 00:19:22,827 and I would never look back. 367 00:19:24,263 --> 00:19:26,530 But for some, walking away isn't an option. 368 00:19:26,632 --> 00:19:29,533 Despite the risks, Anonymous DDoS actions and hacks 369 00:19:29,635 --> 00:19:31,102 continue across the globe. 370 00:19:33,439 --> 00:19:35,906 What do you say to people that say Anonymous is flaming out? 371 00:19:37,477 --> 00:19:38,642 Why not? 372 00:19:38,745 --> 00:19:40,344 (Laughing) 373 00:19:46,519 --> 00:19:49,353 Bio could go to jail if his identity is revealed. 374 00:19:49,455 --> 00:19:52,623 He took part in DDoS attacks on Canadian government websites, 375 00:19:52,725 --> 00:19:56,394 protesting an anti-terrorism bill known as C-51. 376 00:19:56,496 --> 00:19:58,429 The legislation gives the government broader 377 00:19:58,531 --> 00:20:01,365 surveillance powers, sparking concerns about privacy abuse. 378 00:20:02,802 --> 00:20:04,535 Are you gonna escalate your attacks on Canada? 379 00:20:04,637 --> 00:20:06,437 Are you gonna go after more stuff? 380 00:20:20,887 --> 00:20:22,119 As a terrorist? 381 00:20:27,126 --> 00:20:28,659 (Laughing) 382 00:20:32,565 --> 00:20:33,764 Right. 383 00:20:38,204 --> 00:20:40,838 If you put your chances of going to jail in a percentage, 384 00:20:40,940 --> 00:20:41,806 what would it be? 385 00:20:41,908 --> 00:20:42,973 (Laughing) 386 00:21:12,605 --> 00:21:14,505 If you could go back and do it all again, would you? 387 00:21:14,607 --> 00:21:16,440 Would I have had those ideas? 388 00:21:16,542 --> 00:21:17,975 Probably. 389 00:21:18,077 --> 00:21:20,444 Would I have gotten involved with Anonymous? 390 00:21:20,546 --> 00:21:21,779 Probably. 391 00:21:21,881 --> 00:21:23,948 Would I have ended up running servers? 392 00:21:24,050 --> 00:21:25,616 Highly likely. 393 00:21:25,718 --> 00:21:28,486 Therefore, would I still be in the situation I'm in now? 394 00:21:28,588 --> 00:21:30,120 Very likely. 395 00:21:31,424 --> 00:21:33,190 How does this end personally for you? 396 00:21:49,909 --> 00:21:52,810 At its best, Anonymous has embarrassed those in power, 397 00:21:52,912 --> 00:21:54,645 taunting them, paralyzing them, 398 00:21:54,747 --> 00:21:56,413 and spilling their secrets online. 399 00:21:56,516 --> 00:21:58,315 As much an idea as a collective, 400 00:21:58,417 --> 00:22:00,518 concerted campaigns by law enforcement 401 00:22:00,620 --> 00:22:03,554 could weaken and demoralize, but not destroy it. 402 00:22:03,656 --> 00:22:06,123 And so Anonymous lives on. 403 00:22:15,201 --> 00:22:16,567 Thanks a lot, and I really appreciate you taking the time 404 00:22:16,669 --> 00:22:18,068 to talk to us. 405 00:22:18,170 --> 00:22:19,203 Take it easy. 36067

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