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BEN: They hacked corporations.
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None of these targets were
particularly difficult to hack.
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A 3-year-old could do it.
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00:00:07,942 --> 00:00:09,608
They challenged governments.
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Any method of disruption at
any cost, any means necessary.
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They wanted to change the world.
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But after a series of arrests
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and an informant
on the inside...
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I was arrested when
I was 16 years old.
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Police broke down
the front door,
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handcuffed me in my bed.
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...who is Anonymous now?
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♪
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I'm calling Jeremy Hammond,
a legendary Anonymous hacker.
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Hammond is serving a
10-year prison sentence
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for hacking a private
intelligence firm.
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Jeremy, how you doing?
It's Ben.
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You can't finish this call?
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You gotta go?
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Okay, are you gonna call back?
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Okay, alright.
Thanks, man.
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Good luck.
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(Beeping)
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Well, that was bullshit.
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VOICE: Greetings,
citizens of the world.
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VOICE: Hello, Congress
of the United States.
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VOICE: Hello,
leaders of Scientology.
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BEN: Anonymous.
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It's a brand, a meme,
and a movement.
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VOICE: We are Anonymous.
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We are legion.
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We do not forgive.
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We do not forget.
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Expect us.
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BEN: For almost a decade they've
hacked into corporations,
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stolen private information,
and shut down websites.
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Their signature is
instantly recognizable,
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00:02:13,567 --> 00:02:16,268
the Guy Fawkes mask from
the movie V For Vendetta,
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00:02:16,370 --> 00:02:19,471
which was based on the graphic
novel series of the same name.
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The real Guy Fawkes was
executed in 1606 for conspiring
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to kill the king and blow up
the British Parliament.
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I went to talk with
Gabriella Coleman,
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an anthropologist who wrote the
definitive book on Anonymous.
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Full disclosure: she's also
a consultant on this show.
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GABRIELLA: They're ghostly,
they're spectral,
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they're mysterious, they're
controversial, they're radical.
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It's a protest movement.
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It's not about long-term
structural change.
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It's about getting people
excited for activism,
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which is incredibly important,
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and then I think their most kind
of constructive contribution
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has to do with the leaking of
information, whistleblowing.
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But that's not how
Anonymous started out.
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00:03:02,282 --> 00:03:05,117
Back in the early 2000s, a group
of trolls banded together
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00:03:05,219 --> 00:03:08,086
on a web forum called
4Chan, taking their name
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from the default ID many
used to post: Anonymous.
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00:03:11,592 --> 00:03:15,927
Anonymous was never meant to
become an activist phenomena.
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00:03:16,029 --> 00:03:18,964
Today it's identified with
politics, with activism,
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00:03:19,066 --> 00:03:23,769
but its roots are
in the offensive,
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00:03:23,871 --> 00:03:27,506
sometimes terrifying,
sometimes humourous world
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of internet trolling.
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Trolling is the time-honoured
practice of online baiting.
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And in 2008, Anonymous
found an easy target.
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It started with a video
featuring the world's
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most famous Scientologist,
a very enthusiastic Tom Cruise.
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(Maniacal laughing)
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The Church of Scientology
was trying to get this video,
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apparently leaked by a church
insider, off the internet.
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And the Church of
Scientology threatened
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all sorts of publishers
like Gawker with lawsuits
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if they didn't
take down the video.
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And it was at this moment that
Anonymous decides to target the
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Church of Scientology with one
of these trolling campaigns.
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And in this case, it was...
I like to refer to it as
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the Mothership Trolling Campaign
that Anonymous engaged in.
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They prank-called a
Scientology Dianetics hotline.
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They sent hundreds of pizzas to
churches across North America.
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They sent black faxes
to all the churches.
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Then, Anonymous hit Scientology
websites with what's called
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a Distributed Denial
of Service, or DDoS.
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A DDoS attack floods a website
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with so much traffic
that it crashes.
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When the attack stops,
the site can come back up
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without any permanent damage.
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And it was during the course
of that campaign that they also
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then started to debate whether
they should kind of earnestly
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protest the Church of
Scientology not for the sake of
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trolling, but for the kind of
sake of, you know, activism.
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For the first time,
Anonymous was considering
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real political action.
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And then came a fateful step.
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The collective called for
a worldwide street protest
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against Scientology, and
thousands actually showed up.
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Anonymous' next big op
was just as political.
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It morphed from an
anti-copyright movement
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into a massive campaign
to defend WikiLeaks
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and its founder, Julian Assange.
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In November 2010, WikiLeaks
began publishing a trove
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of leaked diplomatic cables,
classified dispatches between
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American embassies and
the State Department.
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Visa, MasterCard and PayPal
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stopped processing
donations to WikiLeaks.
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Anonymous struck back with
what they called Op Payback.
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That operation was,
and I still think is,
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the largest protest DDoS that
the internet has ever seen.
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You had over 7,000 people that
showed up on the chat channel
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where activity was organized.
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It was monumental DDoS.
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Multi-day against
Visa, PayPal, MasterCard.
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Op Payback put Anonymous
on the world stage,
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and put them on the FBI's radar.
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As the bureau's top
official in cyber crime,
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Shawn Henry watched
Anonymous rise.
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He retired in 2012.
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What was it like when you
first encountered Anonymous?
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Anonymous, I mean,
just the very name, right?
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Who is it that we're
trying to investigate?
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Where do they reside?
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Who do they associate with?
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This is a group that's
been widely dispersed
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around the country, and
has been pretty good about
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keeping themselves off
the grid as individuals.
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What about what
they actually do?
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'Cause a lot of it's
just like a DDoS attack.
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Is that really all that bad?
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We're seeing a new form of
social protest, and that is
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people taking advantage
of their technical skills
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00:06:51,078 --> 00:06:56,014
to object in a loud
sort of way to social
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00:06:56,116 --> 00:06:59,851
and political practices
that they deem objectionable.
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00:06:59,953 --> 00:07:02,988
I mean, a lot of that activity
is illegal under our existing
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00:07:03,090 --> 00:07:07,425
law, and there are authorized
ways that people can protest.
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Using the network to disrupt
organizations or to breach data
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00:07:12,199 --> 00:07:15,867
and to steal it is
not one of those ways.
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00:07:15,969 --> 00:07:19,537
By 2011, Anonymous had gone
from a fringe group of trolls
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to a global political force.
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The collective
attacked the websites
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of repressive governments
to support the Arab Spring,
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00:07:27,114 --> 00:07:30,382
took to the streets as part of
the Occupy Wall Street movement,
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00:07:30,484 --> 00:07:33,885
and hacked corporations and
law enforcement along the way.
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00:07:33,987 --> 00:07:35,854
But to understand
who Anonymous is now,
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I had to meet some
of them... in person.
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BEN: Anonymous is basically
a network of online trolls
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that became a global force
to be reckoned with.
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They usually organize on a
network of online chat channels
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called IRC using aliases.
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00:07:51,972 --> 00:07:54,105
But that doesn't mean
they never meet in person.
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And Chaos Communication Camp,
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a hacker gathering that only
happens once every 4 years,
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turned out to be a bit
of a reunion party.
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00:08:01,415 --> 00:08:03,615
Some of the people I met
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have never been interviewed
on camera before.
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My name is Mercedes "N0" Haefer,
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and I have two State National
Bowling Championships.
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I'm Keith.
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00:08:14,428 --> 00:08:16,294
I'm the prettiest
PayPal 14 defendant.
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And I'm Panda, and
I'm the King of Sweden.
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(Giggling)
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N0, Keth and Anon Panda
took part in Anonymous'
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legendary attack against
PayPal, Visa and MasterCard
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in support of WikiLeaks and
its founder, Julian Assange.
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I mean, I don't like
him as a person, but...
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that doesn't mean he
doesn't have rights,
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00:08:36,516 --> 00:08:38,550
and that doesn't mean I
won't fight for his rights.
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Because if he
doesn't have rights,
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then I don't have rights.
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00:08:42,589 --> 00:08:45,023
Everybody has them, or
they're just privileges.
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So if I want to be able to
publish secret government data
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that everyone should know, then
I also have to defend Assange.
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But some within Anonymous
weren't as interested
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in politics as
they were in "lulz",
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internet slang for hilarity,
and LulzSec was a small
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00:09:02,109 --> 00:09:03,842
breakaway group of
Anonymous members
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00:09:03,944 --> 00:09:06,277
who just wanted some lulz
at the system's expense.
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Quite frankly, hackers get
bored, and there's nothing--
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there's nothing more dangerous
than a bored hacker, because
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they'll make themselves not
bored very ----ing quickly.
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00:09:19,326 --> 00:09:22,026
Darren Martyn took part in
both Anonymous and LulzSec,
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going by the name pwnsauce.
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"Pwning" something can mean that
you've hacked it completely.
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00:09:27,300 --> 00:09:29,234
When it all really
started kicking off,
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00:09:29,336 --> 00:09:31,436
the LulzSec thing was
just when I was turning 19.
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So pretty much the same as
most of the people involved.
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We were all kids basically.
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So we just kinda split off
and did our own thing.
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And then...
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well, you know, it just kinda
took on a life of its own.
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00:09:43,817 --> 00:09:45,250
Who were some of
LulzSec's targets,
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00:09:45,352 --> 00:09:47,218
and why'd you guys
decide on them?
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00:10:04,237 --> 00:10:07,806
tflow was a respected Anonymous
member and a talented hacker.
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00:10:07,908 --> 00:10:11,876
He was also part of LulzSec,
all at the age of 16.
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00:10:13,346 --> 00:10:16,147
In the summer of 2011,
LulzSec went on a hacking spree.
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00:10:16,249 --> 00:10:19,784
They DDoSed the websites
of the CIA and the Senate,
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00:10:19,886 --> 00:10:22,320
hacked an FBI association
called InfraGard,
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00:10:22,422 --> 00:10:25,590
and published a fake story
on PBS NewsHour's site.
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00:10:25,692 --> 00:10:28,426
They also redirected
the UK newspaper The Sun
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00:10:28,528 --> 00:10:30,829
to a fake obituary...
for its owner.
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00:10:32,365 --> 00:10:35,600
None of these targets were
particularly difficult to hack.
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00:10:35,702 --> 00:10:37,302
A 3-year-old could do it.
199
00:10:37,404 --> 00:10:40,939
I mean, senate.gov was
one of the simplest hacks
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00:10:41,041 --> 00:10:42,607
ever pulled off.
201
00:10:42,709 --> 00:10:44,108
It was like the '90s called;
202
00:10:44,211 --> 00:10:46,110
it wants its ----ing
security vulnerabilities back.
203
00:11:06,566 --> 00:11:08,499
Well, it just seems like
justice, like you said.
204
00:11:08,602 --> 00:11:11,469
If they're hacking, then
why not let us hack them?
205
00:11:15,742 --> 00:11:16,975
Both LulzSec and Anonymous
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00:11:17,077 --> 00:11:19,310
needed servers
to organize online.
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00:11:19,412 --> 00:11:21,012
And since corporate servers
would just shut them down
208
00:11:21,114 --> 00:11:22,981
or turn them over to the police,
209
00:11:23,083 --> 00:11:24,816
the collective built
its own network.
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00:11:24,918 --> 00:11:27,051
That's where Chris
Weatherhead came in.
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00:11:27,153 --> 00:11:29,320
He helped establish AnonOps,
212
00:11:29,422 --> 00:11:31,256
the collective's main
network of chatrooms.
213
00:11:32,959 --> 00:11:34,359
So you ran the servers
that Anonymous used
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00:11:34,461 --> 00:11:35,660
for their operations?
215
00:11:35,762 --> 00:11:37,862
Yes, so I ran... yeah,
servers that they used
216
00:11:37,964 --> 00:11:39,664
for a few of their operations.
217
00:11:39,766 --> 00:11:44,402
Probably most notably the ones
relating to Operation Payback,
218
00:11:44,504 --> 00:11:47,505
the Operation Avenge Assange,
stuff in the Arab Spring
219
00:11:47,607 --> 00:11:51,075
like the Operation Tunisia,
helping the Tunisian people,
220
00:11:51,177 --> 00:11:53,544
Operation Egypt, helping
people get back online
221
00:11:53,647 --> 00:11:56,014
when Mubarak cut them off.
222
00:11:56,116 --> 00:11:58,249
Did you develop pretty close
friendships with certain people?
223
00:11:58,351 --> 00:12:02,186
None of us knew who
anyone else really was.
224
00:12:02,289 --> 00:12:07,525
So there's sort of a crossover
between friendship and trust.
225
00:12:07,627 --> 00:12:11,229
You reach a point where you're
implicitly trusting people with
226
00:12:11,331 --> 00:12:15,466
information, and therefore you
are essentially befriending them
227
00:12:15,568 --> 00:12:17,635
because you only
trust your friends.
228
00:12:17,737 --> 00:12:19,404
Trust was important, since
all of this was illegal
229
00:12:19,506 --> 00:12:21,072
and the heat was on.
230
00:12:21,174 --> 00:12:24,475
In 2011, law enforcement around
the world located and arrested
231
00:12:24,577 --> 00:12:27,011
several members of
LulzSec and Anonymous,
232
00:12:27,113 --> 00:12:29,647
laying dozens of charges
for their high-profile hacks.
233
00:12:33,486 --> 00:12:34,886
So when the police
turned up at my house,
234
00:12:34,988 --> 00:12:36,387
it was a highly
unpleasant experience.
235
00:12:36,489 --> 00:12:39,090
They kind of gave it
the whole TV treatment,
236
00:12:39,192 --> 00:12:40,425
I guess you could call it.
237
00:12:40,527 --> 00:12:43,127
They sent in the
whole, you know...
238
00:12:43,229 --> 00:12:44,729
lots of people
shouting really loudly
239
00:12:44,831 --> 00:12:46,898
with, you know,
firearms and shit.
240
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,434
I guess they were afraid that
laptops were wired to explode
241
00:12:49,536 --> 00:12:51,402
or some crazy shit like that.
242
00:12:51,504 --> 00:12:53,838
Or that, you know, I'd have
a delete button which would
243
00:12:53,940 --> 00:12:55,573
make all of the evidence
disappear or something.
244
00:12:55,675 --> 00:12:58,409
Police broke down the
front door, came in,
245
00:12:58,511 --> 00:13:01,646
arrested me in my bed,
handcuffed me in my bed.
246
00:13:03,683 --> 00:13:05,950
They all seemed
so surprised that
247
00:13:06,052 --> 00:13:09,587
my computer and everything
around it was off.
248
00:13:09,689 --> 00:13:10,922
Of course it's off!
249
00:13:11,024 --> 00:13:12,824
It's 7:00 in the f... morning!
250
00:13:12,926 --> 00:13:14,993
(Laughing)
251
00:13:15,095 --> 00:13:16,761
What would you expect?
252
00:13:16,863 --> 00:13:19,297
And me personally, I was
just arrested because...
253
00:13:19,399 --> 00:13:21,265
'Cause you're so pretty!
254
00:13:21,368 --> 00:13:22,800
It's 'cause you're so pretty.
255
00:13:22,902 --> 00:13:24,602
N0 and Keth were arrested,
256
00:13:24,704 --> 00:13:26,838
but narrowly avoided
doing major time.
257
00:13:26,940 --> 00:13:28,840
tflow was too young
to go to prison,
258
00:13:28,942 --> 00:13:30,808
pwnsauce got off with a fine,
259
00:13:30,910 --> 00:13:33,411
and Chris spent 4-and-a-half
months behind bars.
260
00:13:33,513 --> 00:13:35,913
But there were much
harsher sentences to come.
261
00:13:39,119 --> 00:13:40,518
BEN: Anonymous was on a roll.
262
00:13:40,620 --> 00:13:44,422
That is, until a series of
arrests in 2011 and 2012.
263
00:13:44,524 --> 00:13:46,357
But for members
of the collective,
264
00:13:46,459 --> 00:13:48,393
there was more
shocking news to come;
265
00:13:48,495 --> 00:13:51,629
many of these arrests were
made possible by an informant.
266
00:13:51,731 --> 00:13:54,932
Hector Xavier Monsegur,
otherwise known as Sabu,
267
00:13:55,035 --> 00:13:57,702
was a vocal member of
Anonymous and LulzSec.
268
00:13:57,804 --> 00:13:59,637
Many considered him a friend.
269
00:13:59,739 --> 00:14:00,872
You met Sabu.
270
00:14:00,974 --> 00:14:03,141
What was that like,
and what was he like?
271
00:14:03,243 --> 00:14:05,777
Sabu is such an
interesting character.
272
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,114
He was really
involved in Anonymous.
273
00:14:10,216 --> 00:14:12,417
He was very charismatic.
274
00:14:12,519 --> 00:14:15,720
His personality online
was larger than life.
275
00:14:15,822 --> 00:14:18,923
It was why he was so
effective as an informant.
276
00:14:19,025 --> 00:14:22,627
Some of his peers and
colleagues, you know,
277
00:14:22,729 --> 00:14:24,462
described him as "legend".
278
00:14:24,564 --> 00:14:28,433
Why do you think he ratted
out his friends and his peers?
279
00:14:28,535 --> 00:14:31,469
Sabu was put in a
difficult situation.
280
00:14:31,571 --> 00:14:36,674
When the FBI showed up at his
house, they basically said,
281
00:14:36,776 --> 00:14:41,012
"Look, work for us or we
will take your foster kids
282
00:14:41,114 --> 00:14:45,349
away from you, and away
from your family entirely."
283
00:14:45,452 --> 00:14:48,486
And he took the deal that
was given to him, and started
284
00:14:48,588 --> 00:14:51,656
almost immediately
to work for the FBI.
285
00:14:51,758 --> 00:14:54,125
Sabu not only led
the FBI to LulzSec,
286
00:14:54,227 --> 00:14:56,694
but to one of Anonymous'
most brilliant hackers,
287
00:14:56,796 --> 00:14:59,497
a 27-year-old
named Jeremy Hammond.
288
00:14:59,599 --> 00:15:01,132
Hammond was the real deal:
289
00:15:01,234 --> 00:15:03,968
a radical anarchist as active
in the streets as he was online;
290
00:15:04,070 --> 00:15:07,138
a hacktivist way before
Anonymous was even a thing.
291
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,807
And we believe that the internet
is a powerful new medium
292
00:15:09,909 --> 00:15:13,444
where just a handful of
people in small groups,
293
00:15:13,546 --> 00:15:15,980
just by shifting data around
in the right directions,
294
00:15:16,082 --> 00:15:18,116
can make big changes
and big damage.
295
00:15:18,218 --> 00:15:21,452
Any method of disruption at
any cost, any means necessary.
296
00:15:21,554 --> 00:15:24,021
Hammond helped
launch Op AntiSec,
297
00:15:24,124 --> 00:15:26,390
which targeted police
departments and what he calls
298
00:15:26,493 --> 00:15:28,826
the national security complex.
299
00:15:28,928 --> 00:15:31,529
Sabu was also a
major player in AntiSec,
300
00:15:31,631 --> 00:15:34,298
all while working for the FBI.
301
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,501
With the feds
watching his every move,
302
00:15:36,603 --> 00:15:38,970
Sabu introduced Hammond to
a hacker who had found a way
303
00:15:39,072 --> 00:15:42,406
into Stratfor, a massive
global intelligence firm.
304
00:15:42,509 --> 00:15:44,809
Hammond then hacked Stratfor,
stealing thousands of
305
00:15:44,911 --> 00:15:46,878
credit card numbers
and millions of emails.
306
00:15:46,980 --> 00:15:48,746
He was arrested for the hack,
307
00:15:48,848 --> 00:15:51,215
and is now serving a 10-year
sentence in federal prison.
308
00:15:52,085 --> 00:15:53,551
VOICE: Dial 5 now.
309
00:15:55,655 --> 00:15:57,255
Yo, what's going on?
You okay?
310
00:15:59,092 --> 00:16:01,025
So just-- I'll get right to it.
311
00:16:01,127 --> 00:16:02,727
Why'd you hack Stratfor?
312
00:16:23,950 --> 00:16:25,683
Why don't you
tell me about Sabu.
313
00:16:25,785 --> 00:16:28,152
What was his role in all this?
314
00:16:43,336 --> 00:16:45,036
How'd that make you feel?
315
00:17:16,336 --> 00:17:18,069
BEN: I asked Sabu to tell
his side of the story,
316
00:17:18,171 --> 00:17:20,671
but he declined to
talk to me on the record.
317
00:17:20,773 --> 00:17:22,573
After Hammond hacked Stratfor,
318
00:17:22,675 --> 00:17:24,575
he leaked the company's
emails to WikiLeaks.
319
00:17:24,677 --> 00:17:27,645
The emails revealed Stratfor had
monitored activists worldwide.
320
00:17:28,715 --> 00:17:34,652
WikiLeaks begins its release
of 5,000 emails documenting
321
00:17:34,754 --> 00:17:40,491
the private lives and
private lies of private spies.
322
00:17:41,894 --> 00:17:43,494
But one question still remains:
323
00:17:43,596 --> 00:17:45,596
This whole time, the
FBI had an informant,
324
00:17:45,698 --> 00:17:47,665
so why did it let
Stratfor get hacked?
325
00:17:49,435 --> 00:17:51,269
The FBI could've done
something about that,
326
00:17:51,371 --> 00:17:53,437
they could've prevented all
this damage from happening.
327
00:17:53,539 --> 00:17:55,773
But no, they were more
interested in entrapping people,
328
00:17:55,875 --> 00:17:58,476
and you know, ensnaring
people in doing things.
329
00:17:58,578 --> 00:18:00,111
While they could've
stopped things
330
00:18:00,213 --> 00:18:02,213
and done crime prevention,
instead they thought,
331
00:18:02,315 --> 00:18:04,148
"---- it, we're
gonna entrap everyone."
332
00:18:04,250 --> 00:18:07,018
I mean, that... they
completely burned Stratfor.
333
00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:09,954
And you know, the FBI need to
have a good look at themselves
334
00:18:10,056 --> 00:18:13,891
and go, you know, "What ----ing
moral high horse do we have
335
00:18:13,993 --> 00:18:16,294
to stand on when we're using
other people as bait?"
336
00:18:17,930 --> 00:18:20,164
After the high-profile arrests
of some of its core members,
337
00:18:20,266 --> 00:18:22,333
Anonymous was at a crossroads.
338
00:18:22,435 --> 00:18:23,768
But that made
some of its hackers
339
00:18:23,870 --> 00:18:25,536
more determined than ever.
340
00:18:28,041 --> 00:18:30,641
BEN: Sabu's betrayal
broke trust within Anonymous.
341
00:18:30,743 --> 00:18:32,943
Anyone can be an informant.
342
00:18:33,046 --> 00:18:34,979
And security expert
Robert Hansen believes
343
00:18:35,081 --> 00:18:37,014
the group has been infiltrated.
344
00:18:37,116 --> 00:18:38,716
I know that there are
certain governments who have
345
00:18:38,818 --> 00:18:40,951
a keen interest at not
only infiltrating them,
346
00:18:41,054 --> 00:18:43,387
but flipping people
inside Anonymous
347
00:18:43,489 --> 00:18:45,056
and turning them
against one another.
348
00:18:45,158 --> 00:18:47,992
And you're saying that
signals intelligence agencies
349
00:18:48,094 --> 00:18:51,529
around the world will try
to compromise Anonymous?
350
00:18:51,631 --> 00:18:52,863
Yes.
351
00:18:52,965 --> 00:18:54,665
Which ones in particular?
352
00:18:54,767 --> 00:18:56,067
At this point, most of them.
353
00:18:56,169 --> 00:18:57,335
(Laughing)
354
00:18:57,437 --> 00:18:59,870
Yeah, I've actually
sat in meetings
355
00:18:59,972 --> 00:19:02,373
where people have actively
talked about doing that.
356
00:19:02,475 --> 00:19:05,810
And not as a "we could",
as in "we are".
357
00:19:05,912 --> 00:19:09,080
So Anonymous is essentially as
clean as a public swimming pool?
358
00:19:09,182 --> 00:19:10,581
(Laughing)
359
00:19:10,683 --> 00:19:11,649
I don't know if
I'd put it that way.
360
00:19:11,751 --> 00:19:13,050
(Laughing)
361
00:19:13,152 --> 00:19:15,152
But what I do know is that
it would be too dangerous
362
00:19:15,254 --> 00:19:16,987
for a guy like me to ever
consider being involved with
363
00:19:17,090 --> 00:19:18,422
at this point.
364
00:19:18,524 --> 00:19:19,557
If I were apart of
Anonymous right now,
365
00:19:19,659 --> 00:19:21,392
I would burn everything
and walk away,
366
00:19:21,494 --> 00:19:22,827
and I would never look back.
367
00:19:24,263 --> 00:19:26,530
But for some, walking
away isn't an option.
368
00:19:26,632 --> 00:19:29,533
Despite the risks, Anonymous
DDoS actions and hacks
369
00:19:29,635 --> 00:19:31,102
continue across the globe.
370
00:19:33,439 --> 00:19:35,906
What do you say to people that
say Anonymous is flaming out?
371
00:19:37,477 --> 00:19:38,642
Why not?
372
00:19:38,745 --> 00:19:40,344
(Laughing)
373
00:19:46,519 --> 00:19:49,353
Bio could go to jail if
his identity is revealed.
374
00:19:49,455 --> 00:19:52,623
He took part in DDoS attacks on
Canadian government websites,
375
00:19:52,725 --> 00:19:56,394
protesting an anti-terrorism
bill known as C-51.
376
00:19:56,496 --> 00:19:58,429
The legislation gives
the government broader
377
00:19:58,531 --> 00:20:01,365
surveillance powers, sparking
concerns about privacy abuse.
378
00:20:02,802 --> 00:20:04,535
Are you gonna escalate
your attacks on Canada?
379
00:20:04,637 --> 00:20:06,437
Are you gonna go
after more stuff?
380
00:20:20,887 --> 00:20:22,119
As a terrorist?
381
00:20:27,126 --> 00:20:28,659
(Laughing)
382
00:20:32,565 --> 00:20:33,764
Right.
383
00:20:38,204 --> 00:20:40,838
If you put your chances of
going to jail in a percentage,
384
00:20:40,940 --> 00:20:41,806
what would it be?
385
00:20:41,908 --> 00:20:42,973
(Laughing)
386
00:21:12,605 --> 00:21:14,505
If you could go back and
do it all again, would you?
387
00:21:14,607 --> 00:21:16,440
Would I have had those ideas?
388
00:21:16,542 --> 00:21:17,975
Probably.
389
00:21:18,077 --> 00:21:20,444
Would I have gotten
involved with Anonymous?
390
00:21:20,546 --> 00:21:21,779
Probably.
391
00:21:21,881 --> 00:21:23,948
Would I have ended
up running servers?
392
00:21:24,050 --> 00:21:25,616
Highly likely.
393
00:21:25,718 --> 00:21:28,486
Therefore, would I still be
in the situation I'm in now?
394
00:21:28,588 --> 00:21:30,120
Very likely.
395
00:21:31,424 --> 00:21:33,190
How does this end
personally for you?
396
00:21:49,909 --> 00:21:52,810
At its best, Anonymous has
embarrassed those in power,
397
00:21:52,912 --> 00:21:54,645
taunting them, paralyzing them,
398
00:21:54,747 --> 00:21:56,413
and spilling their
secrets online.
399
00:21:56,516 --> 00:21:58,315
As much an idea as a collective,
400
00:21:58,417 --> 00:22:00,518
concerted campaigns
by law enforcement
401
00:22:00,620 --> 00:22:03,554
could weaken and demoralize,
but not destroy it.
402
00:22:03,656 --> 00:22:06,123
And so Anonymous lives on.
403
00:22:15,201 --> 00:22:16,567
Thanks a lot, and I really
appreciate you taking the time
404
00:22:16,669 --> 00:22:18,068
to talk to us.
405
00:22:18,170 --> 00:22:19,203
Take it easy.
36067
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