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[narrator]
Beginning in the 1950's,
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the CIA's notoriousmind control programknew no bounds.
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[Dr. Peggy] In some cases,people died.
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But in all cases, their lives
were irreparably damaged.
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[narrator]
Classified documentsand modern investigation
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tell of terrible atrocities,carried out in the nameof national security
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both at home and abroad.
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[woman speaking
foreign language]
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[narrator]
Using the brand new drug LSD,
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they sought to completelydestroy subject's minds,
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only to rebuild themfor their own purpose.
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[Lindsay] This is a real
part of history
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it goes against the grainof everything that we thinkis acceptable in America.
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[narrator]
Could the agency have been
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involved in oneof the most notoriousassassinations in history?
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What is the truth behindthe CIA's MindControl Program?
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[theme music playing]
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[birds chirping]
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[narrator]
The foothills of the Alps
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are the birthplace of theCIA's Mind Control Program.
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Just outside Munich, Germany,
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lie the remnantsof the Dachauconcentration camp.
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It was here that a campaignof human experimentation
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using mind-alteringdrugs began.
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[Dr. Luke] The Nazis conductedall sorts of horrible
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experiments on concentration
camp prisoners.
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They put people in large tubsof ice water to see how long
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it could take them to dieand they put peoplein high altitude chambers.
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They even put a drug
called mescaline,
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which has got
hallucinogenic properties
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in people's drinks.
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One eye witness from Dachausaid that the mescaline
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experiments were conductedto try and eliminate the willof the person examined.
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[Lynn] At the endof the second world war,
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there was something calledOperation Paperclip,
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where a great many
German scientists
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were invited overto The United States.
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They shared their knowledge,their scientific discoveries,their research
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and basically took rootsin The States.
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[Dr. Colin] There was a mannamed Hubertus Strugholdwho did
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real atrocity
level of experimentation
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that resulted in people dying
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during the second world war.He was brought over to Texas.
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A library is named after him.
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And he is regarded
as the medical founder
of Aviation Medicine.
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[narrator]
The intelligence gainedfrom Nazi scientists
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via Operation Paperclip
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led to huge advancesin the fields of rocketryand aeronautics.
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But the CIA also pursuedclandestine researchinto mind control.
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In 1950, just five years afterthe end of World War II,
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the cold warsuddenly heated up.
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[distant explosion]
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The West found itselfat war with communismin Korea.
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[Tony] During the Korean war,
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many American soldiers
who were shot down
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by communist forces
over Korea,
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subsequently madepublic confessions
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saying that they'dbeen engaging ingerm warfare.
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That they droppedanthrax and plague ontothe civilian populations.
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And that was somethinghotly denied
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by the Americans.
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And they accused the Koreans
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of using Soviet and Chinese
brainwashing methods.
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And you can see the anxiety
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in the United Statesabout this whole issue
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in Hollywood movies like
Manchurian Candidate
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and Invasion
of the Body Snatchers.
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[Dr. Colin] So, the officialstory of why the CIA gotinto mind control
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was that it was
defensive and reactive
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to brainwashingby the communist Chinese.
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[man] This brainwashing,
the psychological
indoctrination
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that had taken place
was so successful
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that we had 21 people decide
not to be repatriated.
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[Dr. Luke] Some CIA agentsreason that even ifthe Soviets hadn't yet
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got a mind-controlling drug,
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they could get one in future
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which meant that America had
to have one first
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to better protect
the Americans
and to help win the cold war.
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[rocket launching]
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[narrator] A numberof projects were startedby the CIA
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to explore the useof drugs in mind control.
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The most ambitious of thesebecame known as MKULTRA.
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Of all the drugs testedby the CIA,
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one new synthetic chemicalcompound stood outfrom all the others.
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Lysergic Acid Diethylamide,or LSD.
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[Dr. Colin] So, LSD wasdiscovered by accident,
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late '30s, early '40s
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by a chemist atSandoz Pharmaceuticalsin Switzerland.
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His name was Albert Hofmann.
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So, he was doing research
on ergot alkaloids
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which are rye fungus.He got one on his fingers
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and licked his finger and wenton the first LSD trip.
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[Lynn] LSD is the greatpsychedelic drug.
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It's a psychoactive substance
that basically gives
you hallucinations
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which can be heavenlyand can be hellish.
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[Lindsay] The CIA decidedto use LSD
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because they essentially sawit as a way to destroysomeone's mind.
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[speaking indistinctly]
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And the thinking was,
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if we can destroy
a person's mind,
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we can perhaps build it
back to our liking.
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[narrator] And the manchosen by the CIA
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to lead the research into thisseemingly incredible new drug
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was Sidney Gottlieb.
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[Tony] Sidney Gottlieb wasessentially the CIA'stop chemist.
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He was in charge
of the mind control program.
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And he's been referred
to since as the CIA's
Poisoner-in-chief.
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[Lindsay] So, here we havean American Jew,who is using the same
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methodology that a Nazi
scientist used
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to experiment on prisoners
in Dachau,
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with seemingly,
no qualms about it.
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[narrator]
In the early 1950s,
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the CIA bought the world'sentire supply of LSD
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from Sandoz Pharmaceuticalsfor $240,000.
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The scope of themind control programsoon grew exponentially.
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[Lindsay] MKULTRA was
a super-secret program.
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Very few individuals
knew about it.
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And it very quicklygot completely out of hand.
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[Dr. Peggy] We'll never knowthe full scope
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of how many peoplewere involvedin the MKULTRA program.
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We certainly know that therewere volunteers
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that knew what they
were getting into.
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But there were also people
who were coerced into it.
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And unfortunately so many morethat had no clue that theywere being dosed.
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[Dr. Luke] But at one stage,the MKULTRA Team
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they decide that in order totest the true effect of LSD
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they have todo it unwittingly.
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And so you have this
remarkable situation where
at the height of the cold war
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CIA agents actually put LSD
in their morning coffee cups
and tripping out.
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[Dr. Colin] There's many waysthat we know that all of this
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science fiction soundingstuff is true.
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The Free of Information Actliberated all the documentsback in the '70s.
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It's fully, fully, fullydocumented by the CIA.
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And it describesin great detail
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implanting electrodes
in peoples brains,
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using hypnosis, using all
kinds of different chemicals.
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[narrator] Inevitably,
the cavalier experiments
undertaken
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by Sidney Gottlieband his underlingswould have dire consequences,
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shown most clearly by thefate of a scientist namedFrank Olson.
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Former CIA operative,Lindsay Moran,
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knows all too wellwhat the agencyis capable of doing
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in the interestsof national security.
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Frank Olson was
a bioweapon scientist,
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and he was actually
doing top-secret work
for the CIA.
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[Dr. Luke] On 19thof November 1953,
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Frank Olson is at a workretreat with his CIA
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colleagues in the woodsof Maryland.
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And just after dinner
in the evening
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the men share a bottle
of Cointreau
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which Sidney Gottlieb hadactually spiked with LSD.
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Now, Frank Olson
has a really bad trip,
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and one of the men who was
with him says that he actually
started to act psychotic.
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[narrator]
Olson returned home
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and appeared despondentto his family
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telling them that he's madea terrible mistake.
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Reluctantly he agreedto go to New York Citywith his colleagues
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to see a psychiatrist.
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So, Frank Olson
was given this LSD,
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and it kind of understandably
blew his mind.
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Both prior to the retreatand even duringand after of the retreat,
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Frank Olsonwas expressing misgivings
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about the programshe was involved with,with the CIA.
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And these were super
top-secret programs.
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So, it had become evident
that Frank Olson
was a problem.
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He was essentiallya dissident.
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And he expressed openly
to this small core group
of people
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that he didn't want
to do this anymore.
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He actually asked to quit.
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[narrator]
Frank Olson's grave misgivings
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about his involvement in thissecretive CIA program,
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would seal his fate.
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The CIA's MKULTRAmind control program
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used a variety of drugsand other methods to alterpeople's consciousness.
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In 1953, one of the agency'stop scientists had had enough
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and wanted to leavethe program.
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Shortly after being spikedwith LSD by a colleague,
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Frank Olson suffereda nervous breakdown.
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Afterward, he agreedto travel to New York City
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to be examinedby one of the agency'srecommended physicians.
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It was outside this hotelthat he would meetan untimely death.
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[Lindsay] Frank Olson,at 2:30 in the morningplunged to his death,
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right here.
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The night manager of the hotel
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came out and Frank Olson
was still alive at this point,
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and was trying
to mumble a few words
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that the night manager
couldn't understand.
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And then Frank Olson died.
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But the night manager knewthat something was amiss.
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If you look at the roomsin this hotel,
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they are actually very small.
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There would be no waythat someone could get enoughof a running start
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to dive and crash through
the glass window
and fall to his death.
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Even if he opened the door
and got a running start
down the hallway.
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It's just virtually
impossible, it doesn't
make any sense.
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[narrator]
But who was responsiblefor Frank Olson's death
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and why?
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[Dr. Colin] I'm stronglyconvinced that Frank Olsonwas pushed
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out of the hotel room
and it was not a suicide.
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And the reason
that was done is
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he was threatening
to become a whistle blower.
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He was directly involved
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in all kinds of chemicalexperimentation,and chemical warfare.
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[Lynn] I think the evidenceis such that
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one could say, yeah,
Frank Olson was murdered.
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[Dr. Luke] CIA agentsproceeded to cover up
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the circumstancesof Frank Olson's deathin public.
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Although, privately they
admitted that LSD had
triggered his death.
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Frank Olson's loving wife
and children had to wait
until 1975
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to discover that The CIAhad actually given him LSD.
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[narrator]
The CIA has never admitted
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to having a handin Frank Olson's death.
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Yet over 20 years laterin 1975,
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the Olson family receivedapologies from CIA directorWilliam Colby
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and president Ford
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as well as $750,000in compensation.
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I can sympathize greatly
with Frank Olson
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having worked
for the CIA myself.
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The Central
Intelligence Agency
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is not now and never
has been a place
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appropriate for someone
who has strong moral compass.
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It's a place where you haveto be comfortable operatingin the grey.
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Frank Olson was deeplyuncomfortable with a lotof the things
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that the CIA and the USgovernment was doing.
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If you have moral qualms,
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or misgivings of the workyou are doing
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you should probably
keep them to yourselves.
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Because nothing good will
come of it for your career
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or as we saw in the case
of Frank Olson, for your life.
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[narrator] Thousandsof people were knowingly
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and unknowingly dosedwith LSD by The CIAin the 1950's.
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This project was so pervasive
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it started to have someunintended consequences.
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[Dr. Peggy] Some famousvolunteers to take LSD
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were Allen Ginsberg,
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00:14:13,367 --> 00:14:18,634
Ken Kesey, the author of" One Flew over the
Cuckoo's Nest"
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00:14:18,634 --> 00:14:22,734
"Grateful Dead" lyricist,Robert Hunter.
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[Dominic] One of the ultimate
ironies about the
MKULTRA program
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is that it was createdby the government for control.
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00:14:29,867 --> 00:14:31,533
And yet when you lookat the some of the people
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who participatedin the program or wereclosely impacted by it,
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they actually founded
the counter-culture.
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MKULTRA succeeded
in creating a revolution.
243
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,266
[narrator]
But this LSD dosing
244
00:14:44,266 --> 00:14:48,367
also had negative consequencesfor many of its participants
245
00:14:48,367 --> 00:14:51,233
including psychosisand suicide.
246
00:14:53,533 --> 00:14:57,100
[man] As you concentrate, timeslows down, you hallucinate,
247
00:14:57,100 --> 00:14:58,367
that is, you dream.
248
00:14:58,367 --> 00:15:01,467
This is called tripping.
249
00:15:01,467 --> 00:15:04,166
[narrator]
A combination of humanexperimentation
250
00:15:04,166 --> 00:15:09,634
and little oversight wouldlead to very unsavoryside projects.
251
00:15:10,734 --> 00:15:12,900
[Dominic] The CIA really hadvery few limits
252
00:15:12,900 --> 00:15:16,533
on who they chose to useas the subjectsin their trials.
253
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,166
People in prisons,
254
00:15:18,166 --> 00:15:20,533
people in hospitals
and mental asylums,
255
00:15:20,533 --> 00:15:21,967
even men visiting brothels.
256
00:15:25,734 --> 00:15:28,000
[Lindsay] This location here,81 Bedford Street,
257
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,467
in the west villagein New York City,
258
00:15:30,467 --> 00:15:34,266
was actually home
to one of the CIA's
259
00:15:34,266 --> 00:15:39,166
most secretive, most nefarious
and perhaps
260
00:15:39,634 --> 00:15:41,000
little known missions.
261
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:45,367
And it was called"Operation Midnight Climax".
262
00:15:45,367 --> 00:15:49,734
They gave unwitting Americansdoses of LSD,
263
00:15:49,734 --> 00:15:52,634
and it coupled the drugs
with sex.
264
00:15:53,266 --> 00:15:55,634
They used thisas a safe house
265
00:15:55,634 --> 00:16:00,166
and they had the prostitutesgo out,bring their johns back,
266
00:16:00,166 --> 00:16:04,433
and they would watch
everything that happened,
including the sex.
267
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,467
Operation Midnight Climax
268
00:16:09,467 --> 00:16:13,533
was essentially the brainchildof two people.
269
00:16:13,533 --> 00:16:18,100
The CIA's main chemist,
Sid Gottlieb,
270
00:16:18,100 --> 00:16:21,734
and also this guy named
George Hunter White,
271
00:16:21,734 --> 00:16:24,166
a completelyout of control character.
272
00:16:25,734 --> 00:16:29,467
[narrator]
Federal Bureau of Narcoticsagent, George Hunter White,
273
00:16:29,467 --> 00:16:34,100
was said to be more interestedin sampling the CIA-supplieddrug stash
274
00:16:34,100 --> 00:16:38,000
than conductingscientific research.
275
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:42,467
[Tony] Operation MidnightClimax has to be one of themost bizarre episodes
276
00:16:42,467 --> 00:16:45,367
in this wholemind control saga.
277
00:16:45,367 --> 00:16:48,467
I mean, it's a completely
ridiculous idea,
278
00:16:48,467 --> 00:16:53,166
to use prostitutes to lace
their client's drink with LSD
279
00:16:53,166 --> 00:16:56,467
and have scientists
behind the mirror
gawping at all of this.
280
00:16:56,467 --> 00:16:59,000
I mean, really,
this is voyeurism.
281
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:00,100
This isn't science.
282
00:17:01,634 --> 00:17:04,000
[narrator]
Starting in the mid 1950's,
283
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:08,000
Operation Midnight Climaxwould runfor nearly a decade
284
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,100
with little tono credible results.
285
00:17:11,100 --> 00:17:16,166
But soon The MKULTRA projectwould spread beyondAmerica's borders
286
00:17:16,166 --> 00:17:20,066
and become an internationalscheme of brainwashing.
287
00:17:22,533 --> 00:17:24,867
Beginning in the 1950s,
288
00:17:24,867 --> 00:17:28,734
the CIA dosed thousandsof people with LSD.
289
00:17:28,734 --> 00:17:32,734
Leading to the deathof at least one of itsown scientists.
290
00:17:32,734 --> 00:17:35,734
But spurred on byCold War paranoia,
291
00:17:35,734 --> 00:17:38,266
and claims of communistbrainwashing,
292
00:17:38,266 --> 00:17:42,734
it would continueto undertake a varietyof unethical experiments
293
00:17:42,734 --> 00:17:45,333
in its quest for mind control.
294
00:17:48,367 --> 00:17:51,266
[Dr. Colin] There was a widerange of institutions,
295
00:17:51,266 --> 00:17:53,734
who contracted under MKULTRA.
296
00:17:53,734 --> 00:17:57,166
And this includesleading universities like
297
00:17:57,166 --> 00:18:01,533
Tulane, Harvard, Yale.Many leading psychiatristsand psychologists,
298
00:18:01,533 --> 00:18:03,734
all cleared at top secret.
299
00:18:03,734 --> 00:18:06,100
[Dr. Luke] For many of theMKULTRA experiments,
300
00:18:06,100 --> 00:18:09,166
the CIA chose peoplewho would be almost powerless
301
00:18:09,166 --> 00:18:11,600
for revenge, so these are
people like prostitutes,
302
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,533
drug addicts and even
mental patients.
303
00:18:14,533 --> 00:18:17,600
And in this there are horrible
echoes of the selective nature
304
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:18,734
of Nazi terror.
305
00:18:21,500 --> 00:18:23,500
[narrator]
As the '50s wore on,
306
00:18:23,500 --> 00:18:28,600
the CIA enlisted moreand more institutionsinto the MKULTRA project,
307
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,066
both in the US and abroad.
308
00:18:32,066 --> 00:18:36,734
One of the most respectedscientists to take part in theinternational experiments
309
00:18:36,734 --> 00:18:40,600
was the Scottish-bornEwen Cameron.
310
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:45,266
[Dr. Colin] Ewen Cameron wasat McGill universityin Montreal, Canada.
311
00:18:45,266 --> 00:18:50,100
He was part of the team
that went over and interviewed
Nuremberg doctors.
312
00:18:50,100 --> 00:18:54,266
His experiments wereon psychic drivingand depatterning.
313
00:18:54,266 --> 00:18:59,500
[Dominic] From 1957 to 1964,Cameron worksin the MKULTRA program.
314
00:18:59,500 --> 00:19:02,867
And he was particularly
focused on LSD convulsives.
315
00:19:02,867 --> 00:19:05,867
And administering electro
shock therapy at many times
316
00:19:05,867 --> 00:19:07,734
than the normal
and the safe dosage.
317
00:19:07,734 --> 00:19:10,734
But one thing he's stillreally known for is inventing
318
00:19:10,734 --> 00:19:13,367
the psychic drivingtechnique of torture
319
00:19:13,367 --> 00:19:16,000
and he did that by puttingpeople into comas
320
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,734
for days, weeks,and in some caseseven months.
321
00:19:18,734 --> 00:19:20,734
And while the victimwas in the coma,
322
00:19:20,734 --> 00:19:23,867
playing white noise
or repeated sentences at them
323
00:19:23,867 --> 00:19:25,867
over, over and over again.
324
00:19:25,867 --> 00:19:27,500
And in several cases,
this resulted in
325
00:19:27,500 --> 00:19:30,166
complete and permanent
mental breakdown.
326
00:19:30,166 --> 00:19:32,600
[Ross] So, the purposeof Ewen Cameron's experiments
327
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,734
was to wipe outa person's memories.
328
00:19:35,734 --> 00:19:38,634
And it's obviouswhy the CIA would beinterested in that.
329
00:19:38,634 --> 00:19:43,100
And it's massively unethical,
destructive treatment.
330
00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:44,867
[Selwood]
What's absolutely shocking
331
00:19:44,867 --> 00:19:46,867
is thatthis was really happening.
332
00:19:46,867 --> 00:19:49,734
These weren't theorieson a blackboard.
333
00:19:49,734 --> 00:19:52,000
People like Cameron
were taking real people,
334
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,166
often people
who were just checking in
to a medical facility
335
00:19:55,166 --> 00:19:57,700
because they had anxiety
or post-natal depression.
336
00:19:57,700 --> 00:19:59,100
And they were beingput into comas
337
00:19:59,100 --> 00:20:01,000
and havingtheir minds destroyed.
338
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,500
And this was being doneon the American taxpayer'sdollar.
339
00:20:04,500 --> 00:20:07,367
[Moran] It shouldn'tbe a surprise to any of us
340
00:20:07,367 --> 00:20:10,066
that so manyconspiracy theories
341
00:20:10,066 --> 00:20:13,000
swirl around the topic
of mind control,
342
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,600
and particularly
around the CIA,
343
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,066
because this isa real part of history.
344
00:20:18,967 --> 00:20:21,100
This really did happen.
345
00:20:21,100 --> 00:20:22,867
It's pretty horrifying.
346
00:20:22,867 --> 00:20:26,166
And it really goesagainst the grain
347
00:20:26,166 --> 00:20:31,000
of everything that we think
is acceptable in America.
348
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:35,000
[narrator] But theUS government's testingon unsuspecting subjects
349
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,500
wasn't confinedto hospitals or labs.
350
00:20:38,500 --> 00:20:42,533
One bold operationexperimentedon a major US city
351
00:20:43,066 --> 00:20:44,734
in plain sight.
352
00:20:44,734 --> 00:20:47,100
In the early '50s,
there was efforts
353
00:20:47,100 --> 00:20:50,734
to test a number of things
on unwitting civilians.
354
00:20:50,734 --> 00:20:52,166
So, there was...
355
00:20:52,166 --> 00:20:56,734
Uh, various kinds
of bacteria were sprayed
in New York and San Francisco.
356
00:20:56,734 --> 00:21:01,600
Radioactive plutoniumwas injected into peoplewithout their consent.
357
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,634
All kindsof different things were done.
358
00:21:05,166 --> 00:21:08,533
[narrator] One such operationundertaken in 1950
359
00:21:08,533 --> 00:21:12,266
was knownas Operation Sea Spray.
360
00:21:12,266 --> 00:21:16,533
[Selwood] Operation Sea Sprayjust defies comprehension.
361
00:21:16,533 --> 00:21:20,867
In 1950, the US Navy
decided to investigate
362
00:21:20,867 --> 00:21:23,367
how the San FranciscoBay Area would cope
363
00:21:23,367 --> 00:21:25,166
if there wasa biological attack.
364
00:21:25,166 --> 00:21:28,700
And they did thatby releasingtwo biological agents.
365
00:21:28,700 --> 00:21:31,100
Unsurprisingly,
not long afterwards,
366
00:21:31,100 --> 00:21:34,166
people began to turn up
with unexplained illnesses.
367
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,734
[narrator]
Ten people were hospitalized
368
00:21:37,734 --> 00:21:43,166
and one person diedfrom this simulated biologicalaerosol attack.
369
00:21:43,166 --> 00:21:46,700
But could the CIAhave carried outsimilar experiments
370
00:21:46,700 --> 00:21:49,367
in other partsof the globe?
371
00:21:49,367 --> 00:21:53,734
Some sayMKULTRA's scope reachedacross the Atlantic Ocean
372
00:21:53,734 --> 00:21:55,900
with deadly consequences.
373
00:21:59,266 --> 00:22:04,100
In southern Francelies the townof Pont-Saint-Esprit.
374
00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:09,233
The sleepy communityseems an unlikely placefor international espionage.
375
00:22:10,367 --> 00:22:12,367
But in 1951,
376
00:22:12,367 --> 00:22:16,100
events here put itin the global spotlight.
377
00:22:17,266 --> 00:22:20,533
[speaking French]
378
00:22:36,166 --> 00:22:38,266
[Moran] Multiple residentsof this town,
379
00:22:38,266 --> 00:22:42,100
Pont-Saint-Esprit,in France, became sick.
380
00:22:42,100 --> 00:22:43,700
Mysteriously sick.
381
00:22:43,700 --> 00:22:46,533
Uh, they were
being hospitalized.
382
00:22:46,533 --> 00:22:48,367
Uh, there were rashes.
383
00:22:48,367 --> 00:22:50,367
Uh, people were
becoming unconscious.
384
00:22:50,367 --> 00:22:53,500
And nobody
had any idea why.
385
00:22:53,500 --> 00:22:55,734
And there wassome speculation
386
00:22:55,734 --> 00:22:59,367
that maybe there had beena poisonous agent
387
00:22:59,367 --> 00:23:03,634
inserted into the bread,into the bakeries of the town.
388
00:23:03,634 --> 00:23:07,367
Uh, or maybe somethinghad gotten intothe water supply.
389
00:23:07,367 --> 00:23:10,266
[Schmitt speaking French]
390
00:23:23,734 --> 00:23:27,367
[Selwood]
At first, it was thoughtto be simple food poisoning.
391
00:23:27,367 --> 00:23:29,000
But for someunfortunate people,
392
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:33,000
those symptoms evolvedinto hallucinationsand convulsions.
393
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,166
One man jumped from a window
believing that he was
an aeroplane.
394
00:23:36,166 --> 00:23:38,867
An 11-year-old boytried to strangle his mother.
395
00:23:38,867 --> 00:23:41,100
[Schmitt speaking French]
396
00:23:57,100 --> 00:24:00,367
[narrator] What causedthese apocalyptic scenes?
397
00:24:00,367 --> 00:24:03,867
Many have pointedto these symptomsbeing very similar
398
00:24:03,867 --> 00:24:06,533
to those of an LSD trip.
399
00:24:06,533 --> 00:24:11,800
Recent new evidence suggeststhat the CIA might have beenresponsible.
400
00:24:17,266 --> 00:24:22,100
[narrator] In 1951,hundreds of peoplefell violently ill
401
00:24:22,100 --> 00:24:25,333
in the small French townof Pont-Saint-Esprit.
402
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,734
Could the CIAhave been involved?
403
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:35,000
[Selwood]
More than 250 peoplewere infected, seven died,
404
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,467
and 50 were confined
in lunatic asylums.
405
00:24:38,467 --> 00:24:42,900
The official explanation
why so many people
just started having
406
00:24:42,900 --> 00:24:46,867
these horrific nightmares
and the daymares was bread.
407
00:24:46,867 --> 00:24:50,166
A particular bakerythat had sold bread
408
00:24:50,166 --> 00:24:53,900
to a number of the townspeoplewas responsible.
409
00:24:53,900 --> 00:24:59,000
The idea is that this was
a case of ergot poisoning.
410
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,900
[narrator]
Ergot poisoning is causedby the ingestion of a fungus
411
00:25:02,900 --> 00:25:06,600
that can growon spoiled grain.
412
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:11,000
Throughout French history,there have been a numberof these deadly outbreaks.
413
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,000
With victimsdisplaying symptoms
414
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,066
similar to those seenin 1951.
415
00:25:19,166 --> 00:25:23,066
But evidence from one authorsuggests foul play.
416
00:25:24,266 --> 00:25:27,266
[narrator] In 2009,Hank Albarelli wrote
417
00:25:27,266 --> 00:25:31,100
that the CIA,possibly with the helpof Frank Olson,
418
00:25:31,100 --> 00:25:35,066
was responsiblefor what happenedat Pont-Saint-Esprit.
419
00:25:36,867 --> 00:25:40,000
Hank Albarelli,
who died a few years back,
420
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,367
very thorough, very, you know,
scholarly researcher,
421
00:25:44,367 --> 00:25:47,734
doesn't fly off the handle
with conspiracy theories,
422
00:25:47,734 --> 00:25:52,000
he was strongly convincedthat Frank Olson was murdered,
423
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:56,166
and that the Pont-Saint-Espritwas an LSD experiment.
424
00:25:56,166 --> 00:26:01,000
[Moran]
What's really suspiciousabout this incident
425
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,700
is that Frank Olson,
426
00:26:02,700 --> 00:26:07,166
who we know was
somehow involved
in the MKULTRA program,
427
00:26:07,166 --> 00:26:09,100
until he fell to his death,
428
00:26:09,100 --> 00:26:11,634
he happened to be
in the vicinity
429
00:26:11,634 --> 00:26:14,734
at the same time
that this was taking place.
430
00:26:14,734 --> 00:26:18,266
So, the very validspeculation is,
431
00:26:18,266 --> 00:26:21,900
perhaps this wasa CIA-conducted experiment.
432
00:26:21,900 --> 00:26:25,000
In the CIA'sprimary mandate
433
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:29,100
of the 1950s,
which was to fight communism,
434
00:26:29,100 --> 00:26:32,900
they were gonna use
any mechanisms
that they could.
435
00:26:32,900 --> 00:26:36,367
So, why not experiment
on a small French town
436
00:26:36,367 --> 00:26:38,333
instead of
a small American town?
437
00:26:39,900 --> 00:26:42,700
[narrator]
Because he had spoken outabout what really happened
438
00:26:42,700 --> 00:26:44,467
at Pont-Saint-Esprit,
439
00:26:44,467 --> 00:26:49,266
Albarelli claimsthat Frank Olsonwas murdered by the CIA,
440
00:26:49,266 --> 00:26:51,533
with the helpof George Hunter White,
441
00:26:51,533 --> 00:26:55,867
the mastermind behindOperation Midnight Climax.
442
00:26:55,867 --> 00:27:00,634
However, Albarelli'ssources within the CIAremain anonymous,
443
00:27:00,634 --> 00:27:04,100
purportedlyfor their own safety.
444
00:27:04,100 --> 00:27:07,166
But without solid proofof the Agency's involvement,
445
00:27:07,166 --> 00:27:09,166
many remain skeptical.
446
00:27:11,867 --> 00:27:14,734
[Schmitt speaking French]
447
00:27:25,867 --> 00:27:28,467
[Brunache] Could LSDhave been injected
448
00:27:28,467 --> 00:27:32,367
into the bread
at a certain bakery?
449
00:27:32,367 --> 00:27:34,100
Yes, that's possible.
450
00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:38,367
Though I don't think
that many people believe
that was the case.
451
00:27:38,367 --> 00:27:41,900
It was probably
some bad spores,
452
00:27:41,900 --> 00:27:44,734
or the kind ofcleaning products
453
00:27:44,734 --> 00:27:46,266
they use to clean the wheat,
454
00:27:46,266 --> 00:27:49,367
that became usedin the flour.
455
00:27:49,367 --> 00:27:53,100
They suffered from
very bad digestive problems
456
00:27:53,100 --> 00:27:55,166
as a result
of this, this poisoning,
457
00:27:55,166 --> 00:27:58,100
which is not a feature
of LSD at all.
458
00:27:58,100 --> 00:28:01,367
So, there's thingsthat really don't matchthe LSD thing
459
00:28:01,367 --> 00:28:05,634
and really do matchthe historical descriptionof ergot poisoning.
460
00:28:07,100 --> 00:28:08,900
[speaking French]
461
00:28:20,367 --> 00:28:22,266
[narrator] The CIAhas never admitted
462
00:28:22,266 --> 00:28:25,100
to having any involvement
in the terrible events
463
00:28:25,100 --> 00:28:27,800
that occurredin Pont-Saint-Esprit.
464
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,367
However,the vast majority of files
465
00:28:30,367 --> 00:28:33,734
relating to MKULTRAwere destroyed
466
00:28:33,734 --> 00:28:36,367
when the projectwas dissolved.
467
00:28:36,367 --> 00:28:38,533
[Picknett] President Ford,in the '70s,
468
00:28:38,533 --> 00:28:40,867
came down hardon what he discovered
469
00:28:40,867 --> 00:28:43,266
about the CIA using LSD
470
00:28:43,266 --> 00:28:49,734
and other really dodgy,
uh, techniques for, basically,
playing with people's minds.
471
00:28:49,734 --> 00:28:52,000
In some cases,destroying people's minds.
472
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,600
So, officially, such thingsare no longer legal.
473
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,266
[Ross] There'sa whole series of projects
474
00:28:58,266 --> 00:29:01,266
which justwere brought to an endadministratively.
475
00:29:01,266 --> 00:29:03,166
And then,
it was all just shut down
476
00:29:03,166 --> 00:29:06,166
by the Director of the CIA,
Richard Helms.
477
00:29:06,166 --> 00:29:08,266
But that's not believable.
478
00:29:08,266 --> 00:29:10,734
There must have been
subsequent projects
479
00:29:10,734 --> 00:29:12,867
with different names
that we don't know about.
480
00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:16,266
[narrator] Even thoughthe MKULTRA project
481
00:29:16,266 --> 00:29:19,467
was officially disbandedin the 1970s,
482
00:29:19,467 --> 00:29:23,734
rumors of ongoingexperiments continued.
483
00:29:23,734 --> 00:29:26,100
One of the epicentersof these rumors
484
00:29:26,100 --> 00:29:29,066
lies 100 miles eastof Manhattan...
485
00:29:30,166 --> 00:29:33,066
Camp Hero, Montauk.
486
00:29:34,734 --> 00:29:38,266
[Moran] When we thinkof the beaches of Long Island,we think of the Hamptons,
487
00:29:38,266 --> 00:29:41,467
and you would never suspectthat there's actually
488
00:29:41,467 --> 00:29:45,467
a rather creepyand menacing military base
489
00:29:45,467 --> 00:29:50,100
that's been shrouded
in mystery and conspiracy
for decades.
490
00:29:50,100 --> 00:29:54,100
[McMahon]
Camp Hero is basicallya coastal defense station
491
00:29:54,100 --> 00:29:56,000
built during World War II,
492
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,700
and cunningly disguised
as a fishing village.
493
00:29:58,700 --> 00:30:05,100
And, basically, its purposewas to protect New Yorkfrom seaborne invasion.
494
00:30:05,100 --> 00:30:07,100
There is a theorythat there was a project,
495
00:30:07,100 --> 00:30:09,100
and this involvedthe development
496
00:30:09,100 --> 00:30:11,367
of psychological
warfare techniques,
497
00:30:11,367 --> 00:30:14,100
but also
some pretty far-out stuff,
498
00:30:14,100 --> 00:30:19,433
some people believe
included time travel
and teleportation.
499
00:30:21,100 --> 00:30:25,800
[narrator] What secretslie beath this abandonedmilitary base?
500
00:30:30,266 --> 00:30:33,967
[narrator] Officially,
the CIA's mind control program
501
00:30:33,967 --> 00:30:36,266
ended in the 1970s.
502
00:30:36,266 --> 00:30:38,266
Yet, in the 1980s,
503
00:30:38,266 --> 00:30:42,266
rumors of abduction,torture and experimentation
504
00:30:42,266 --> 00:30:45,166
began to swirlaround Camp Hero,
505
00:30:45,166 --> 00:30:47,734
the site of an abandonedAir Force base
506
00:30:47,734 --> 00:30:49,734
in Montauk, Long Island.
507
00:30:52,266 --> 00:30:55,066
Although it's never
been proven,
508
00:30:55,066 --> 00:30:58,734
a lot of people think
that there's a connection
509
00:30:58,734 --> 00:31:02,367
between Montauk
and MKULTRA.
510
00:31:02,367 --> 00:31:08,266
That Montauk was a placewhere unwitting victims,
511
00:31:08,266 --> 00:31:13,734
potentially children,
were kidnapped
and held hostage,
512
00:31:13,734 --> 00:31:16,900
and experimented on
with LSD.
513
00:31:21,367 --> 00:31:24,634
[narrator]
Locals Brian Minnickand Danielle Lindsay
514
00:31:24,634 --> 00:31:28,734
have beeninvestigating these claimsfor 25 years.
515
00:31:28,734 --> 00:31:32,634
They have assembledall availabledeclassified documents
516
00:31:32,634 --> 00:31:36,467
to build a pictureof the suspectedunderground base.
517
00:31:39,166 --> 00:31:42,433
[Brian Minnick]
We have maps of bunkers,
518
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,066
and we have all kinds
of military maps.
519
00:31:47,066 --> 00:31:48,900
This base is huge.
520
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,166
I'm mapping the undergroundas best as I can.
521
00:31:52,166 --> 00:31:55,967
And, uh, we keep finding,to this day, entrances.
522
00:31:55,967 --> 00:31:57,367
When we climbed inas kids,
523
00:31:57,367 --> 00:32:00,266
we, uh, just rode off from
the lighthouse parking lot
on our bikes.
524
00:32:00,266 --> 00:32:02,467
We found a hole in the wall,
climbed into a bunker.
525
00:32:02,467 --> 00:32:04,100
And halfwaythrough the hallway,
526
00:32:04,100 --> 00:32:05,500
there was thishole in the floor
527
00:32:05,500 --> 00:32:06,967
that went acrossthe whole hallway.
528
00:32:06,967 --> 00:32:10,500
We dropped a brick,and it was about 40 feet downwith water.
529
00:32:10,500 --> 00:32:12,500
[Lindsay Danielle]
Some were big enoughfor a Hummer to fit through.
530
00:32:12,500 --> 00:32:14,266
They go down,
kind of, like, steps.
531
00:32:14,266 --> 00:32:16,500
You have to climb down,
and it goes deeper and deeper.
532
00:32:16,500 --> 00:32:18,900
So we don't know
how big they go out.
533
00:32:20,166 --> 00:32:22,734
[narrator]
Although main entrancesto the underground base
534
00:32:22,734 --> 00:32:25,266
are now impossibleto access,
535
00:32:25,266 --> 00:32:29,166
pieces of the old facilitycan be seen from the beach.
536
00:32:31,166 --> 00:32:34,166
[Minnick] We're, basically,
on the eastern side
of Camp Hero,
537
00:32:34,166 --> 00:32:37,867
where it connected
right next to the lighthouse,
actually.
538
00:32:37,867 --> 00:32:40,266
If you can see,
the tower right next
to the lighthouse
539
00:32:40,266 --> 00:32:41,967
is part of the base.
540
00:32:41,967 --> 00:32:43,734
So, there's rumors
that tunnels start running
541
00:32:43,734 --> 00:32:45,967
-along these bluffs
starting right here.
-[Lindsay] Yeah.
542
00:32:45,967 --> 00:32:48,367
And go all the way
to the other side
of the base.
543
00:32:50,367 --> 00:32:53,100
That might just be
a regular rock, but this...
544
00:32:53,100 --> 00:32:55,233
-[Lindsay] Yeah,
look at that cable.
-Wow.
545
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,600
-That is a thick cable.
-Wow. This is old.
546
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,600
This is
a communications cable.
547
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,600
Basically,
that's a base end station
for the coastal artillery.
548
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,467
There was an elaborate
cable system throughout
the whole base.
549
00:33:07,467 --> 00:33:09,734
There was a tunnel
that ran across here.
550
00:33:09,734 --> 00:33:13,166
And since then,
the tunnel fell into the sea
and broke onto the beach.
551
00:33:13,166 --> 00:33:14,867
All the pieces
you can find sometimes.
552
00:33:14,867 --> 00:33:17,266
You know, big pieces
of cement and rebar.
553
00:33:17,266 --> 00:33:21,467
And these wires were
running through the tunnels
for communications.
554
00:33:21,467 --> 00:33:24,867
[narrator]
There are many rumorsabout what happened here,
555
00:33:24,867 --> 00:33:28,266
including drug testingon unwilling subjects,
556
00:33:28,266 --> 00:33:32,367
due to the presenceof a place knownas the LSD room.
557
00:33:32,367 --> 00:33:36,066
The LSD room
was a former World War II,
uh, house.
558
00:33:36,066 --> 00:33:38,967
Base housing.
And, uh, it was
the commander's house.
559
00:33:38,967 --> 00:33:41,634
All four bedroomshad strange painted designs,
560
00:33:41,634 --> 00:33:44,967
with the trimand the electric socketsall taped off.
561
00:33:44,967 --> 00:33:48,367
-Everything perfectly
professionally done.
-[Lindsay] Professional.
562
00:33:48,367 --> 00:33:50,967
[narrator] The strangedesigns in this building
563
00:33:50,967 --> 00:33:55,533
are highly reminiscentof the colors seen duringan LSD trip.
564
00:33:57,634 --> 00:34:00,600
Brian and Danielle'sworking theory
565
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,467
is that the use of LSD
566
00:34:02,467 --> 00:34:07,266
is somehow connectedto Camp Hero's hugeradar transmitter.
567
00:34:07,266 --> 00:34:09,500
[Minnick] They picked upon where MKULTRA left off
568
00:34:09,500 --> 00:34:11,266
with some ofthe LSD experiments.
569
00:34:11,266 --> 00:34:15,166
And they did what
the people at Harvard
wished they could do,
570
00:34:15,166 --> 00:34:20,867
is add hallucinogenswith, uh, oscillatingmicrowave or radio waves.
571
00:34:20,867 --> 00:34:23,367
And they had
the perfect place,
Montauk, to do it.
572
00:34:23,367 --> 00:34:25,266
And that's when that room
might have popped up
573
00:34:25,266 --> 00:34:27,266
with all that
psychedelic designs.
574
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,734
[narrator] Camp Hero's historyas an Air Force base
575
00:34:32,734 --> 00:34:36,500
has also led to a numberof strange sightings.
576
00:34:36,500 --> 00:34:39,266
[Minnick]
Well, we actually havetwo UFOs on video.
577
00:34:39,266 --> 00:34:41,066
-Um, one--
-Just when we were here.
578
00:34:41,066 --> 00:34:43,000
One was a while ago,
and one was just recent.
579
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,600
Like, a couple of weeks ago.
And we were filming the radar,
580
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,100
and one UFO comes upbehind it and accelerates,
581
00:34:48,100 --> 00:34:49,634
as the next onedrops down from the sky.
582
00:34:49,634 --> 00:34:51,900
It turns and acceleratesthat way.
583
00:34:55,166 --> 00:34:56,967
There's a whole story,
584
00:34:56,967 --> 00:34:59,500
and there's books
about Montauk.
585
00:34:59,500 --> 00:35:03,734
Stories aboutall kinds of mind controlexperimentation,
586
00:35:03,734 --> 00:35:06,367
advanced physics researchbeing done there,
587
00:35:06,367 --> 00:35:07,734
torture of children.
588
00:35:07,734 --> 00:35:09,900
None of it proven,as far as I know.
589
00:35:10,634 --> 00:35:13,166
So, is it impossible? No.
590
00:35:13,166 --> 00:35:14,734
Could it have happened?
Yes.
591
00:35:14,734 --> 00:35:17,867
But, really, there's not
any solid evidence.
592
00:35:17,867 --> 00:35:20,367
[Minnick]
This place has always beensuch an important place
593
00:35:20,367 --> 00:35:21,867
to defend the United States,
594
00:35:21,867 --> 00:35:24,600
and then, all of a sudden,
they just left it, you know.
595
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,100
And another thing is,
if they, in fact, had
a deeper underground base,
596
00:35:28,100 --> 00:35:29,166
where there's
more important...
597
00:35:29,166 --> 00:35:30,500
Like, something
like a laboratory.
598
00:35:30,500 --> 00:35:32,066
I couldn't see themabandoning that
599
00:35:32,066 --> 00:35:35,100
without trying to use ittill this day.
600
00:35:35,100 --> 00:35:39,000
[narrator]
What happened here at Montaukremains to be seen.
601
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,066
And investigatorslike Brian and Danielle
602
00:35:42,066 --> 00:35:45,166
will continue to searchfor evidence.
603
00:35:45,166 --> 00:35:49,734
But what is the legacyof the CIA'smind control program?
604
00:35:49,734 --> 00:35:53,634
Could it stillbe going on today?
605
00:35:55,100 --> 00:35:57,734
[narrator] The CIAhas gone on record,
606
00:35:57,734 --> 00:36:02,467
saying that MKULTRAand other associatedmind control programs
607
00:36:02,467 --> 00:36:05,266
ended in the 1970s.
608
00:36:05,266 --> 00:36:07,734
But that was definitelynot the end of the road
609
00:36:07,734 --> 00:36:10,433
for its architect,Sidney Gottlieb.
610
00:36:13,266 --> 00:36:16,533
[Moran] After MKULTRA,Sidney Gottlieb,
611
00:36:16,533 --> 00:36:19,700
uh, continued to work
for the CIA,
612
00:36:19,700 --> 00:36:22,000
and he was kind of
their main chemist
613
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,367
in devising different ways
614
00:36:25,367 --> 00:36:28,634
that we might assassinateforeign leaders.
615
00:36:28,634 --> 00:36:30,800
Sidney Gottlieb ended up
becoming involved
616
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:36,166
in some very curious attempts
to undermine Fidel Castro
in Cuba.
617
00:36:36,166 --> 00:36:42,000
One was to sprayCastro's TV studiowith LSD.
618
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,600
Another one was to coat
his shoes with thallium
619
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,533
so his beard
would fall out.
620
00:36:46,533 --> 00:36:50,600
There was also, very famously,the idea of a poisoned cigar,
621
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,500
because Castro lovedsmoking cigars,
622
00:36:52,500 --> 00:36:55,533
so he'd smoke oneand hopefully die.
623
00:36:55,533 --> 00:36:57,000
[Moran] Some of themwere quite silly,
624
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,000
some of them had the potentialto be very deadly.
625
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,066
Fidel Castro
managed to evade them all.
626
00:37:06,100 --> 00:37:10,467
[narrator]
The CIA may have failedto undermine Fidel Castro,
627
00:37:10,467 --> 00:37:13,367
but one areawhere it might have succeeded
628
00:37:13,367 --> 00:37:17,700
was in the creationof a real lifeManchurian Candidate assassin.
629
00:37:17,700 --> 00:37:19,900
[Picknett] There arecertainly many anomalies
630
00:37:19,900 --> 00:37:23,800
in the killingof Bobby Kennedyby Sirhan Sirhan.
631
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,900
Uh, one of them
is his general demeanor.
632
00:37:26,900 --> 00:37:30,700
He shoots him,and then the security guardsjump on him,
633
00:37:30,700 --> 00:37:33,800
and it's like
he's just been caught for...
634
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,467
As one of the guards said,
for a traffic violation.
635
00:37:37,467 --> 00:37:40,000
[McMahon] There's no doubtthat like his brother, JFK,
636
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,500
Bobby Kennedyhad plenty of enemies.
637
00:37:42,500 --> 00:37:47,100
And, of course, it spawned
a vast amount of theories
638
00:37:47,100 --> 00:37:49,000
about why
he was assassinated.
639
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,900
And if you watch the footageof the assassination,
640
00:37:51,900 --> 00:37:56,467
there is somethingrather unnerving and surrealabout the whole event,
641
00:37:56,467 --> 00:37:59,166
and what motivatedSirhan Sirhan
642
00:37:59,166 --> 00:38:01,634
to committhis terrible deed.
643
00:38:07,700 --> 00:38:12,867
Well, Sirhan Sirhan
has always had amnesia
for the shooting.
644
00:38:12,867 --> 00:38:15,367
And so, there's
circumstantial evidence
645
00:38:15,367 --> 00:38:17,266
that he was controlled
by somebody,
646
00:38:17,266 --> 00:38:19,266
and was
hypnotically controlled,
647
00:38:19,266 --> 00:38:22,700
but it's not reallyquite locked down and proven.
648
00:38:22,700 --> 00:38:25,800
So, I'd saybetter than 50-50 odds
649
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,900
that he was handledand controlled by somebody.
650
00:38:28,900 --> 00:38:32,166
[Moran] Through the years,a lot of speculation
651
00:38:32,166 --> 00:38:33,467
has swirled around
652
00:38:33,467 --> 00:38:35,533
a kind of
wild conspiracy theory
653
00:38:35,533 --> 00:38:40,500
that Sirhan Sirhanmight have beena CIA agent.
654
00:38:40,500 --> 00:38:43,467
Knowing what we know nowabout MKULTRA
655
00:38:43,467 --> 00:38:45,266
and how far-reaching it was,
656
00:38:45,266 --> 00:38:49,800
and how there was, truly,
no lack of accountability
at the CIA,
657
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:51,000
and they were
getting into bed
658
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:55,533
with, uh, mobsters,
and drug dealers,
and assassins,
659
00:38:55,533 --> 00:38:57,900
and all and sundry criminals,
660
00:38:57,900 --> 00:38:59,800
it certainlywouldn't surprise me
661
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,533
if there wassome tangential connectionbetween Sirhan Sirhan
662
00:39:03,533 --> 00:39:06,433
and the MKULTRA program.
663
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:14,367
[narrator]
In 2021, Sirhan Sirhanwas granted parole.
664
00:39:14,367 --> 00:39:18,100
But this was overturnedby California GovernorGavin Newsom,
665
00:39:18,100 --> 00:39:20,166
giving the reasonof Sirhan's refusal
666
00:39:20,166 --> 00:39:23,600
to accept responsibilityfor the murder.
667
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:28,467
With so many questionsstill unansweredabout the CIA's involvement,
668
00:39:28,467 --> 00:39:34,066
some wonder, could the CIA'smind control programstill be active?
669
00:39:34,867 --> 00:39:36,166
[Ross]
When somebody asks me,
670
00:39:36,166 --> 00:39:38,166
"Do you thinkthis is ongoing?"
671
00:39:38,166 --> 00:39:41,000
My basic answer is,
"I don't know for a fact."
672
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:45,800
But what I do know
for a fact is Guantanamo Bay
and Abu Gharib.
673
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,900
Those are organized
interrogation programs,
674
00:39:48,900 --> 00:39:54,266
using a lot of
pretty destructive,
unethical tactics,
675
00:39:54,266 --> 00:39:57,100
like, electric shockto the person,
676
00:39:57,100 --> 00:40:00,000
uh, sleep deprivation,food deprivation,
677
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,867
uh, sexual humiliation.
678
00:40:02,867 --> 00:40:06,266
All of these are elements
of enhanced interrogations
679
00:40:06,266 --> 00:40:09,734
that trace
probably back 2,000 years,
680
00:40:09,734 --> 00:40:13,367
but certainlyback to MKULTRA.
681
00:40:13,367 --> 00:40:16,867
[Selwood]
Militaries and governmentsare always researching,
682
00:40:16,867 --> 00:40:19,266
always trying to findthe next edge
683
00:40:19,266 --> 00:40:23,266
in combat and intelligence,to give them the advantage.
684
00:40:23,266 --> 00:40:26,166
But these days,
the research is
much more likely
685
00:40:26,166 --> 00:40:28,367
to be into
automation and AI,
686
00:40:28,367 --> 00:40:32,100
than it is to be pumping
soldiers or spies
full of drugs.
687
00:40:32,100 --> 00:40:36,600
[Moran] With allof the experimentationof the MKULTRA program,
688
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:41,634
the CIA really didn't succeedin any of its aims.
689
00:40:41,634 --> 00:40:47,800
So, one could say thatthe program was almostentirely for naught.
690
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:52,800
Although, you potentially
could credit the CIA,
691
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:58,800
uh, with being the harbinger
of the, the age of free love.
692
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,433
And LSDreally found its foothold.
693
00:41:03,467 --> 00:41:04,634
[Ross] There isa massive amount
694
00:41:04,634 --> 00:41:06,467
that, obviously,we don't know.
695
00:41:06,467 --> 00:41:09,900
The person in chargeof MKULTRA, Sidney Gottlieb,
696
00:41:09,900 --> 00:41:12,166
who I talked tobriefly on the phone once,
697
00:41:12,166 --> 00:41:15,000
he told mean interesting thing,which was,
698
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,467
there was another unit
within the CIA,
in parallel to his,
699
00:41:18,467 --> 00:41:20,533
conducting
mind control research,
700
00:41:20,533 --> 00:41:23,433
which has not been identified
or declassified at all.
701
00:41:27,166 --> 00:41:30,367
[narrator] We may never knowif MKULTRA was responsible
702
00:41:30,367 --> 00:41:33,367
for the poisoningsat Pont-Saint-Esprit,
703
00:41:33,367 --> 00:41:36,734
or the deaths of Frank Olsonand Robert F. Kennedy.
704
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,533
But until more filesare declassified
705
00:41:40,533 --> 00:41:45,367
and the CIAis either exoneratedor admits responsibility,
706
00:41:45,367 --> 00:41:49,100
rumors of Agency involvement
in some of the darkest moments
707
00:41:49,100 --> 00:41:51,634
of the 20th centurywill continue.
67035
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