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Hi, um, I'm here to see Chuck Palmer.
Hannah Horvath.
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- 4-B.
- Thanks.
3
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- Hi.
- Hi. I'm Hannah...
4
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Hannah... Hannah.
Yeah, I know. It's, uh, nice to meet you.
5
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Shoes-off household?
6
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Uh, yes. Sorry, I'm...
I'm that asshole now.
7
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I mean, I have my, uh, special slippers,
8
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but, uh, these are just for me.
9
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Um, if you could put them in the same line
as the others, that'd be great.
10
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- Of course, yeah.
- Yeah.
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I'm... I'm sorry, if they could...
If they could not touch the suede boots...
12
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It's just a whole thing.
13
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Thank you.
14
00:02:25,645 --> 00:02:28,856
Are you sure I can't take your bag?
15
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No, I'm good. Thanks.
16
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How about your red tote bag?
17
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I'll hold onto this too.
I'm not planning to stay so long.
18
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Sure. Fine, yeah. Here, sit.
19
00:02:44,789 --> 00:02:46,457
It was, um...
20
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It's good of you to show.
21
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Well, I wasn't going to not show,
I was just surprised.
22
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Surprised what, that I wanted to talk?
23
00:02:53,214 --> 00:02:57,176
Yeah, I just... Surprised that
you found the article that I wrote.
24
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I mean, you must have an ass-deep
Google alert on yourself.
25
00:02:59,512 --> 00:03:02,932
This was like a niche feminist website,
it's not the front page of the Times.
26
00:03:03,057 --> 00:03:04,767
Well, let's just say
I'm hypervigilant these days.
27
00:03:04,850 --> 00:03:08,521
Look, I'm not trying to get
an apology out of you.
28
00:03:08,604 --> 00:03:09,772
- Okay, good.
- Okay, good.
29
00:03:09,855 --> 00:03:12,858
I'm just looking to give
my side of the story.
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00:03:12,942 --> 00:03:15,277
Okay, but first there's something
that I'd like to say.
31
00:03:15,361 --> 00:03:18,280
Oh, sure, uh, go right ahead, Hannah.
32
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I'm a writer, you know, and I may not be
a rich writer or a famous writer
33
00:03:26,205 --> 00:03:28,749
or a writer with a picture of myself
hanging out with Toni Morrison...
34
00:03:29,250 --> 00:03:31,502
- Good catch.
- Well, you put it right in my face, so.
35
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Yeah, yeah, I did.
36
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But I am a writer,
and as such, I think I'm obligated
37
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to use my voice to talk about things
that are meaningful to me,
38
00:03:40,803 --> 00:03:43,264
and I read something about you
that troubled me,
39
00:03:43,305 --> 00:03:46,976
that troubled me greatly, namely that you
were using your power and your influence
40
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to involve yourself sexually
with college students on your book tour.
41
00:03:52,481 --> 00:03:55,526
And whether all those sexual encounters
were consensual or not, or how...
42
00:03:55,609 --> 00:03:58,529
Okay, hold up. Because that's
where this all gets pretty fucking messy,
43
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when words like consensual
are thrown around.
44
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That's why I'm not sleeping.
45
00:04:02,908 --> 00:04:05,411
That... That is definitely
why I've lost 20 pounds.
46
00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,038
Well, that sounds lucky,
I would love that.
47
00:04:08,539 --> 00:04:11,167
Look, Hannah, you're clearly very bright,
48
00:04:11,250 --> 00:04:12,960
I could tell that from
the first sentence you wrote.
49
00:04:13,043 --> 00:04:15,838
Uh, thank you, you printed out a blog?
50
00:04:15,921 --> 00:04:17,840
No, I have assistants
who can do that for me.
51
00:04:17,882 --> 00:04:21,552
"If one more male writer I love reveals
himself to be a heinous sleazebag,
52
00:04:21,677 --> 00:04:24,680
"I'm going to do a bunch of murders,
create a new isle of Lesbos,
53
00:04:24,764 --> 00:04:26,348
"and never look back."
54
00:04:26,432 --> 00:04:28,267
You're funny, that's a funny sentence.
55
00:04:28,350 --> 00:04:29,435
Thank you.
56
00:04:29,518 --> 00:04:34,523
But you should be using your funny
to tackle subjects that matter.
57
00:04:34,565 --> 00:04:39,111
Me, who I may or may not have got a blowjob
from consensually in a college town,
58
00:04:39,195 --> 00:04:41,530
does not fucking matter.
59
00:04:41,614 --> 00:04:42,990
But the thing is, is that it does.
60
00:04:43,032 --> 00:04:45,868
Because if one of those girls was saying
she didn't want to give the blowjob...
61
00:04:45,951 --> 00:04:49,038
By the way, how exactly does one give
a non-consensual blowjob?
62
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A non-consensual blowjob,
it would be very choky.
63
00:04:52,750 --> 00:04:53,834
It...
64
00:04:53,876 --> 00:04:58,088
It would involve somebody sort of holding
someone else's head down
65
00:04:58,172 --> 00:05:01,300
and kind of, you know, maybe holding them
by the hair, by the pigtails.
66
00:05:02,510 --> 00:05:05,846
You've heard that old joke, "What do
you call a blowjob with handlebar?"
67
00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:07,681
Just...
68
00:05:08,766 --> 00:05:11,560
I'm sorry, I have to get this.
It's, uh... It's family stuff.
69
00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:13,521
Yeah, of course.
70
00:05:13,604 --> 00:05:14,605
Hi, Mayaan.
71
00:05:16,232 --> 00:05:18,442
No, if Miranda wants to come over
for the weekend, it's fine.
72
00:05:18,526 --> 00:05:19,610
Yeah. She feeling better?
73
00:05:22,822 --> 00:05:27,576
No, no, I don't have her gymnastics bag. Ask
Graciela, 'cause sometimes it's in her car.
74
00:05:28,911 --> 00:05:33,249
Well, I'm not gonna let her sit here
and eat fucking Flamin' Hot Cheetos
75
00:05:33,374 --> 00:05:36,418
and play Candy Crush or whatever.
She's going to need to walk,
76
00:05:36,460 --> 00:05:38,712
you know, go to a park, whatever.
She's depressed.
77
00:05:40,172 --> 00:05:41,799
Yes, I mean clinically.
78
00:05:43,259 --> 00:05:45,177
I'm not calling you a bad mother.
79
00:05:45,970 --> 00:05:47,805
Mayaan, I'm not, I'm not.
80
00:05:50,099 --> 00:05:53,602
You know, would this be a good time
to just talk about summer, uh, custody?
81
00:05:53,686 --> 00:05:56,188
Because I would love to bring her
to the Cape, um,
82
00:05:56,272 --> 00:05:59,066
for three weeks, maybe after
the European residency, you know.
83
00:06:00,234 --> 00:06:01,986
I also don't want to feel like
you're not getting your time.
84
00:06:03,404 --> 00:06:04,738
Yeah, go grab your calendar.
85
00:06:35,019 --> 00:06:40,107
No, I asked you, Mayaan, I 100% asked you,
'cause I always goddamn ask you.
86
00:06:41,025 --> 00:06:43,903
Mayaan, I'm not going to tell you
when you can see your daughter.
87
00:06:43,986 --> 00:06:45,487
I'm going to tell you
when I want to see your daughter
88
00:06:45,529 --> 00:06:48,532
and then we'll take it from there,
and being the mother, no doubt you'll win,
89
00:06:48,616 --> 00:06:50,284
rest assured you'll win.
90
00:06:50,701 --> 00:06:53,454
No, no, it's not a swipe at you, it's not.
91
00:06:55,748 --> 00:06:58,667
I know, I know, I'm sorry.
92
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I'm sorry, honey.
93
00:07:00,252 --> 00:07:05,424
Yes, of course, I'll see her at 3:00.
Yep, okay, bye.
94
00:07:09,762 --> 00:07:12,306
So I'm assuming that was Toni Morrison.
95
00:07:12,723 --> 00:07:14,350
That's funny. No, it's my ex.
96
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Very tortured woman.
97
00:07:18,729 --> 00:07:21,023
But, our daughter's a good girl,
98
00:07:21,148 --> 00:07:27,029
so you know, I have to believe that this
life, this mother is teaching her something.
99
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You know, building her up strong,
100
00:07:30,449 --> 00:07:32,952
because, uh, she's had
some depression stuff this year,
101
00:07:33,035 --> 00:07:35,037
and it got kind of serious,
but, um, she's good.
102
00:07:37,373 --> 00:07:40,709
- Listen, I don't know you...
- No, Hannah, you do not.
103
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But your work means a lot to me.
104
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It has for a long time.
105
00:07:45,339 --> 00:07:47,049
It's made me laugh, and it's comforted me
106
00:07:47,174 --> 00:07:50,552
and my copy of Shannon's Rock
is so dog-eared and underlined
107
00:07:50,594 --> 00:07:52,012
you can barely read the words anymore,
108
00:07:52,054 --> 00:07:53,973
so when I saw Denise's Tumblr, I was...
109
00:07:54,056 --> 00:07:56,433
Isn't that the crazy
part about all of this?
110
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Like, about being alive right now,
that so much of your life,
111
00:08:00,229 --> 00:08:04,441
your world can be destroyed by something
called Tumblr, without an E.
112
00:08:05,985 --> 00:08:08,237
I mean, destroyed seems like
a little bit of an overstatement.
113
00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:09,905
You got a great review in the Times
four days ago.
114
00:08:09,989 --> 00:08:12,908
That was a rave,
you've got this apartment, you're...
115
00:08:12,950 --> 00:08:14,034
Yeah, I'm fine.
116
00:08:14,076 --> 00:08:15,202
Yeah, I would say so.
117
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The thing is I'm not.
118
00:08:16,412 --> 00:08:19,957
Because I've been taking pills to fall asleep
and guess what, they don't fucking work.
119
00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,292
I've started therapy again,
for the first time in 10 years.
120
00:08:22,376 --> 00:08:24,336
Thought I was done with all that shit.
121
00:08:24,420 --> 00:08:27,548
Tried everything,
different types of meditation,
122
00:08:27,589 --> 00:08:29,049
I've... I tried to learn Spanish,
123
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rowing, you know, I went on a juice
cleanse, did a silent retreat.
124
00:08:33,053 --> 00:08:36,765
I am now having nightmares
that my daughter's friends will Google
125
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and find out about whatever the fuck
this thing is, and that will hurt her.
126
00:08:43,188 --> 00:08:47,443
Understand? It will hurt my daughter, so
what I wonder is why am I being punished?
127
00:08:48,068 --> 00:08:49,570
I wasn't trying to punish you,
128
00:08:49,611 --> 00:08:52,072
I just think it's important to listen
to the voices of women
129
00:08:52,114 --> 00:08:55,451
who have historically been pushed
to the side and silenced and...
130
00:08:55,534 --> 00:08:57,494
Do you know the woman
who wrote the article?
131
00:08:59,121 --> 00:09:00,622
Do you know any of the women
who came forward?
132
00:09:02,332 --> 00:09:04,043
Are you some kind of activist?
133
00:09:04,168 --> 00:09:06,003
No, I don't even recycle.
134
00:09:06,128 --> 00:09:07,796
Then why would a smart woman like you
135
00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:11,300
write a very long and considered piece
of writing on what is ultimately hearsay?
136
00:09:11,383 --> 00:09:14,553
Because I don't consider the accounts
of four different women hearsay.
137
00:09:14,636 --> 00:09:16,388
Really? You remember
what happened at Salem.
138
00:09:16,472 --> 00:09:18,140
Yeah, these four women are the witches.
139
00:09:18,223 --> 00:09:19,308
I'm the witch.
140
00:09:19,433 --> 00:09:20,976
I don't see it that way.
141
00:09:21,101 --> 00:09:22,603
These women don't have the reach
that you have,
142
00:09:22,644 --> 00:09:24,813
they can't get the New York Times
to hand them over the op-ed page.
143
00:09:24,897 --> 00:09:26,398
That's why the Internet is so cool,
144
00:09:26,482 --> 00:09:28,734
because it takes all the voices
that have been marginalized and...
145
00:09:28,859 --> 00:09:32,029
Oh, my God!
Is that why the Internet is so cool?
146
00:09:32,738 --> 00:09:34,656
Because some might argue
it's a monster we've created
147
00:09:34,782 --> 00:09:36,116
that will ultimately kill us.
148
00:09:36,408 --> 00:09:39,536
Yeah, well, the people who argue that
are probably a generation above me, but...
149
00:09:40,162 --> 00:09:41,371
Fuck, I need a cup of coffee.
150
00:09:52,174 --> 00:09:54,676
I'm not perfect, but I'm
not saying I'm perfect.
151
00:09:54,718 --> 00:09:58,013
I'm a horny motherfucker
with the impulse control of a toddler.
152
00:09:58,055 --> 00:09:59,348
Oh, that must be hard.
153
00:09:59,431 --> 00:10:02,059
Listen, I get it, there are kids dying
in Africa, blah-blah-blah, okay.
154
00:10:02,142 --> 00:10:03,435
But this is fucking hard for me.
155
00:10:04,103 --> 00:10:05,437
I fucked around on my wife,
156
00:10:05,521 --> 00:10:07,439
I've told women I've loved them,
didn't even call them back.
157
00:10:07,523 --> 00:10:09,942
I even went to a couple of hookers,
and one of them had a dick.
158
00:10:10,025 --> 00:10:11,151
I don't have any secrets.
159
00:10:11,693 --> 00:10:12,820
None of that's illegal.
160
00:10:12,945 --> 00:10:15,781
I mean, except the prostitutes,
that's technically a felony, but...
161
00:10:15,864 --> 00:10:21,537
I have never fucking forced anyone
to blow me, that is not my style.
162
00:10:22,162 --> 00:10:24,998
These Tumblr girls, who come up to me,
at my lectures,
163
00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,042
and I am sorry, they hurl themselves at me,
164
00:10:27,209 --> 00:10:29,753
like I'm some fire and brimstone preacher
165
00:10:29,837 --> 00:10:32,548
who's going to cure their mom's bum leg
with a touch of God.
166
00:10:33,590 --> 00:10:38,387
I invite them back to my hotel.
We may drink teeny-tiny bottles of booze,
167
00:10:38,512 --> 00:10:41,056
if the place is nice enough
to have a fucking minibar.
168
00:10:41,098 --> 00:10:44,810
A couple of them might
stay, and then voilà,
169
00:10:44,893 --> 00:10:47,604
they have something to write about,
because what do writers need?
170
00:10:47,729 --> 00:10:48,772
Money.
171
00:10:48,897 --> 00:10:51,233
Very funny. Stories, they need stories.
172
00:10:51,275 --> 00:10:52,401
So one of them starts talking,
173
00:10:52,484 --> 00:10:55,487
"I met Chuck Palmer.
He's a sad man with a receding hairline."
174
00:10:55,571 --> 00:10:57,531
"He made sad noises
while I sucked him off,"
175
00:10:57,573 --> 00:11:00,075
and all of a sudden,
she has something to write about.
176
00:11:00,576 --> 00:11:02,911
She has a story, she has
an experience, okay,
177
00:11:02,953 --> 00:11:06,206
she has something that makes her different
from every other creative writing undergrad
178
00:11:06,248 --> 00:11:07,833
that was bussed in from Virginia.
179
00:11:08,792 --> 00:11:10,419
Do you understand what I'm saying
about experience,
180
00:11:10,460 --> 00:11:12,504
the way people crave it
and the way people use it?
181
00:11:12,588 --> 00:11:13,964
Yeah, I think I do. But...
182
00:11:14,047 --> 00:11:15,382
Denise, the one who started all this.
183
00:11:15,424 --> 00:11:18,427
She practically ripped at my Dockers.
184
00:11:18,468 --> 00:11:21,221
Kept asking if she could come
visit me in New York.
185
00:11:21,263 --> 00:11:25,893
I probably nodded, probably indicated yes.
I didn't follow up.
186
00:11:26,935 --> 00:11:28,520
That made her angry.
187
00:11:28,604 --> 00:11:31,982
So you expect me to believe that every one
of these girls came forward with the story
188
00:11:32,065 --> 00:11:34,401
just because they had hurt feelings?
189
00:11:34,610 --> 00:11:36,111
You clearly haven't met my ex.
190
00:11:36,153 --> 00:11:37,237
I feel like I have.
191
00:11:37,279 --> 00:11:40,699
That conversation was very long and pretty
weird thing to do in front of a stranger.
192
00:11:41,033 --> 00:11:43,285
By the way, if you're so
sure you're innocent,
193
00:11:43,577 --> 00:11:47,915
if you know that you're this like perfect
specimen, then why can't you just let it go?
194
00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,459
Did you just say why
can't I just let it go?
195
00:11:50,709 --> 00:11:51,710
Yeah.
196
00:11:52,294 --> 00:11:55,214
That's really great advice.
Are you Buddhist?
197
00:11:56,215 --> 00:11:57,925
Why do you need me to know all this?
198
00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,261
Plenty of people wrote
about Denise's story.
199
00:12:01,303 --> 00:12:03,305
Did you call all of them to come
to your apartment?
200
00:12:03,347 --> 00:12:04,932
Which by the way, is lovely.
201
00:12:04,973 --> 00:12:07,309
I had no idea novelists could make
this much money.
202
00:12:07,643 --> 00:12:09,937
No, I didn't call them. I didn't
call any of them. I only called you.
203
00:12:10,229 --> 00:12:12,481
Why me?
204
00:12:15,484 --> 00:12:17,152
'Cause you're smart.
205
00:12:17,236 --> 00:12:20,989
You write well, you write sharply,
like you're actually paying attention.
206
00:12:21,031 --> 00:12:22,324
You even made me believe
what you were saying,
207
00:12:22,366 --> 00:12:23,492
and I'm the one you're fucking lying about.
208
00:12:25,702 --> 00:12:29,289
So, are you really gonna use all this skill
to write for some shitty website,
209
00:12:29,414 --> 00:12:32,668
being paid a meaningless fee to slam
some guy you've never met,
210
00:12:32,709 --> 00:12:33,710
but claim to respect?
211
00:12:34,503 --> 00:12:36,922
If not me, who, and if not now, when?
212
00:12:37,089 --> 00:12:40,175
Oh, my God. This isn't the
Civil Rights Movement, Hannah.
213
00:12:40,384 --> 00:12:42,469
It's me. It's just me.
214
00:12:42,636 --> 00:12:45,597
Getting head in some sterile hotel room
in Rhode Island.
215
00:12:45,722 --> 00:12:48,433
So the larger significance is just
lost on you? You just don't even...
216
00:12:48,767 --> 00:12:50,686
What larger significance?
217
00:12:51,478 --> 00:12:53,146
The power imbalance.
218
00:12:53,188 --> 00:12:54,189
Oh, my God.
219
00:12:54,481 --> 00:12:56,191
You know what,
I haven't been offered a beverage,
220
00:12:56,233 --> 00:12:57,776
so I think I'm going to get myself one.
221
00:13:00,362 --> 00:13:02,823
The part where she looks like
a Victoria's Secret model,
222
00:13:02,906 --> 00:13:06,702
and I didn't lose my virginity until
I was 25 and I was on Accutane,
223
00:13:06,868 --> 00:13:08,203
that part's not lost on me.
224
00:13:09,496 --> 00:13:12,541
Uh, no, I'm talking about the part
where you're a very fucking famous writer
225
00:13:12,624 --> 00:13:16,378
and she's working really hard to have just
a little bit of what you get every day.
226
00:13:18,964 --> 00:13:21,675
So you invite her back to your hotel room,
what's she supposed to say? No?
227
00:13:22,384 --> 00:13:23,385
She admires you.
228
00:13:24,177 --> 00:13:25,762
Then you unbuckle your pants.
229
00:13:26,847 --> 00:13:28,140
What's she going to do next?
230
00:13:28,849 --> 00:13:31,435
You got it wrong. It's
not so she has a story,
231
00:13:32,394 --> 00:13:34,563
it's so she feels like she exists.
232
00:13:38,233 --> 00:13:40,277
And by the way, people don't talk about
this shit for fun,
233
00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:41,862
it ruins their lives, you know that.
234
00:13:41,945 --> 00:13:43,655
Do you hear yourself right now?
235
00:13:43,822 --> 00:13:44,865
Mmm-hmm.
236
00:13:44,906 --> 00:13:49,745
I am a grown man inviting a grown woman
to my hotel room.
237
00:13:49,786 --> 00:13:52,914
Did I put a gun to her head?
Did I offer her a job?
238
00:13:53,540 --> 00:13:56,293
I may be stupid, but I'm not evil, sister.
239
00:13:56,418 --> 00:13:59,671
An invitation isn't inherently wrong
or dangerous.
240
00:13:59,755 --> 00:14:02,841
Sexuality is very muddy,
that's a real gray area.
241
00:14:02,924 --> 00:14:05,344
Or at least we say it's a gray area,
so we can get...
242
00:14:05,427 --> 00:14:07,471
I am so sick of gray areas.
243
00:14:13,352 --> 00:14:16,730
When I was in fifth grade,
I had this English teacher, Mr. Lasky,
244
00:14:17,856 --> 00:14:20,901
he liked me, he was impressed with me.
I did like special creative writing.
245
00:14:20,984 --> 00:14:23,195
I wrote like a little novel or whatever.
246
00:14:23,278 --> 00:14:25,614
Sometimes when he was talking to the class
he'd stand behind me,
247
00:14:25,697 --> 00:14:27,324
and he'd just like rub my neck.
248
00:14:27,407 --> 00:14:30,077
Sometimes he'd like rub my head,
rustle my hair.
249
00:14:31,119 --> 00:14:32,120
And I didn't mind.
250
00:14:32,996 --> 00:14:34,206
It made me feel special.
251
00:14:34,289 --> 00:14:37,000
It made me feel like someone saw me
and they knew that I was going to grow up
252
00:14:37,084 --> 00:14:39,461
and be really, really particular.
253
00:14:39,961 --> 00:14:42,756
It also made kids hate me
and put lasagna in my fucking backpack,
254
00:14:42,798 --> 00:14:44,508
but that's a different story.
255
00:14:44,591 --> 00:14:47,969
Anyway, last year, I'm at this like,
whatever, warehouse party in Bushwick
256
00:14:48,053 --> 00:14:49,429
and this dude comes up to me and he's like,
257
00:14:49,471 --> 00:14:51,973
"Horvath. We went to middle
school together. East Lansing,"
258
00:14:52,015 --> 00:14:55,435
and I'm like, "Oh, my God,
remember how crazy Mr. Lasky's class was?
259
00:14:55,477 --> 00:14:57,020
"He was basically trying to molest me."
260
00:14:57,104 --> 00:14:58,105
You know what this kid said?
261
00:14:59,314 --> 00:15:01,233
He looks at me in the middle
of this fucking party,
262
00:15:01,733 --> 00:15:05,946
like he's a judge and he goes,
"That's a very serious accusation, Hannah."
263
00:15:05,987 --> 00:15:06,988
And he walked away.
264
00:15:08,323 --> 00:15:10,992
And there I am, and I'm just 11 again,
265
00:15:11,076 --> 00:15:16,957
and I'm just getting my fucking neck rubbed
because that stuff never goes away.
266
00:15:20,460 --> 00:15:21,711
Yeah, I'm sorry that happened to you.
267
00:15:23,338 --> 00:15:26,341
I mean, it gives me a greater perspective
on what triggered you,
268
00:15:26,383 --> 00:15:29,511
to use the parlance of our times,
about my story.
269
00:15:29,678 --> 00:15:31,430
I didn't tell you so
you'd feel sorry for me.
270
00:15:31,513 --> 00:15:34,683
No, I'm just saying,
I'm sorry 'cause it's an awful story.
271
00:15:34,766 --> 00:15:37,936
Yeah, but look at me, I'm smart.
And amazing.
272
00:15:40,355 --> 00:15:41,523
And now I have a story.
273
00:15:44,276 --> 00:15:45,819
Can I read something to you?
274
00:15:53,618 --> 00:15:55,537
"Jessica had
the straining body of someone
275
00:15:55,620 --> 00:15:59,291
"who'd very recently worked far too hard
to lose a negligible amount of weight.
276
00:15:59,374 --> 00:16:00,375
"She was thin,
277
00:16:00,459 --> 00:16:03,920
"had always been thin enough to get by
with low breasts and a tan clavicle.
278
00:16:04,004 --> 00:16:06,882
"But it was as if her form wasn't yet used
to its socially imbued power.
279
00:16:06,965 --> 00:16:11,178
"She moved slowly, awkwardly,
as if life was a china shop and she a bull.
280
00:16:11,261 --> 00:16:13,263
"She treated my hotel room like a museum,
281
00:16:13,346 --> 00:16:15,640
"the minibar like fine sculpture
from the Ming Dynasty,
282
00:16:15,724 --> 00:16:18,393
"delicately pouring herself
some vodka over ice.
283
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:20,520
"I asked her where she was from
and she said 'around, '
284
00:16:20,562 --> 00:16:23,023
"as if someone had told her
that's what made women irresistible.
285
00:16:23,064 --> 00:16:25,609
"Being from nowhere,
and standing for nothing."
286
00:16:26,610 --> 00:16:27,611
Why don't you read?
287
00:16:28,612 --> 00:16:31,531
- I'm okay listening. I mean...
- No. Uh, read it aloud to me.
288
00:16:36,119 --> 00:16:37,746
"I tried to ask her questions,
289
00:16:38,747 --> 00:16:41,958
"about what she was reading,
watching, thinking,
290
00:16:42,042 --> 00:16:44,794
"about her home town
and her poetry workshop.
291
00:16:44,878 --> 00:16:46,296
"About her mother and her roommate
292
00:16:46,379 --> 00:16:50,008
"and the silvery scar sneaking quietly
across her forearm,
293
00:16:50,091 --> 00:16:54,304
"but she was silent, reticent, almost angry
when I pushed too hard.
294
00:16:54,387 --> 00:16:57,098
"'Sit on the bed, ' she told me
when she finally spoke.
295
00:16:57,182 --> 00:16:59,809
"'Sit on the bed,
and stop asking me anything.'
296
00:16:59,893 --> 00:17:03,688
"And so I did as I was told,
and she reached for my old belt,
297
00:17:03,772 --> 00:17:06,107
"frayed from being the
only one in rotation,
298
00:17:06,191 --> 00:17:08,985
"and as she unbuckled it,
I thought sadly of my sister,
299
00:17:09,069 --> 00:17:13,323
"my daughter, even my mother, and the
times they had resisted being known,
300
00:17:13,406 --> 00:17:15,909
"guessing instead that the man
they were standing across from
301
00:17:15,951 --> 00:17:18,787
"wanted something or
someone else entirely."
302
00:17:19,996 --> 00:17:21,831
Is this fiction?
303
00:17:21,915 --> 00:17:23,083
Is anything fiction?
304
00:17:23,291 --> 00:17:25,961
No, I don't mean it like a Cheshire cat
kind of riddle.
305
00:17:26,002 --> 00:17:30,131
I mean, like, did you change the names and
identifying details. Like, is this fiction?
306
00:17:30,215 --> 00:17:31,216
I did change the names.
307
00:17:31,299 --> 00:17:36,137
But this is what I wrote about Denise before
she published her fucking Tumblr article.
308
00:17:36,263 --> 00:17:39,849
Before a website called The Awl
called me "throat piercer."
309
00:17:40,517 --> 00:17:42,811
This is what I wrote about Denise
before she told the world
310
00:17:42,894 --> 00:17:45,814
that I was a menace and
a sleaze and a fraud.
311
00:17:45,897 --> 00:17:48,316
She doesn't think you're a fraud,
she clearly respects you a lot.
312
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,151
Okay, this is what I saw
and this is what I wrote.
313
00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:53,947
I saw a woman who was lovely,
lonely and scared.
314
00:17:53,989 --> 00:17:56,491
I saw a woman
who didn't want to let anyone in.
315
00:17:56,575 --> 00:17:59,286
And I see now, in myself,
316
00:17:59,327 --> 00:18:01,997
every fucking guy who didn't care enough
to push a little further.
317
00:18:02,038 --> 00:18:05,000
Hannah, that is what I am guilty of.
318
00:18:05,041 --> 00:18:09,337
Not pushing hard enough to get to know
Denise, to get to the heart of her story.
319
00:18:11,256 --> 00:18:12,257
Do you get that?
320
00:18:13,174 --> 00:18:14,175
Yeah.
321
00:18:16,136 --> 00:18:19,556
Do you want to know why I think
I really wanted to meet you?
322
00:18:21,057 --> 00:18:23,226
- Yeah, I do want to know.
- To fix that.
323
00:18:23,810 --> 00:18:26,521
I mean, it's spoiled with
Denise, I know it is,
324
00:18:26,605 --> 00:18:29,983
but I can ask you where you're from,
what you want, who you are.
325
00:18:30,025 --> 00:18:33,069
I can... I can show you're more to me
than just a pretty face.
326
00:18:37,157 --> 00:18:38,158
So?
327
00:18:40,535 --> 00:18:42,037
Where are you from?
328
00:18:44,539 --> 00:18:45,540
I'm from Michigan.
329
00:18:45,624 --> 00:18:46,666
Really, which part?
330
00:18:46,708 --> 00:18:49,294
I love Traverse City, chocolate-covered
cherry capital of the world.
331
00:18:49,377 --> 00:18:52,088
I ate so much on my book tour once,
I had to stick my fingers down my throat.
332
00:18:52,172 --> 00:18:53,173
Yeah. Really?
333
00:18:53,214 --> 00:18:56,301
Yeah, no. I'm not opposed to a little
casual bulimia from time to time.
334
00:18:56,384 --> 00:18:57,636
Who isn't?
335
00:18:57,719 --> 00:18:58,762
Well, it takes a toll on the enamel.
336
00:19:00,221 --> 00:19:02,891
Um, no, I'm from East Lansing.
It's not really that close.
337
00:19:02,974 --> 00:19:04,059
Right.
338
00:19:04,100 --> 00:19:06,728
And what are your dreams
for the next five years?
339
00:19:07,228 --> 00:19:09,356
Sorry to sound like
a People magazine interview.
340
00:19:11,191 --> 00:19:14,527
No, it's okay, it's a good question.
I want to write.
341
00:19:16,488 --> 00:19:20,241
I want to write stories that make
people feel less alone than I did.
342
00:19:20,283 --> 00:19:23,411
I want to make people laugh
about the things in life that are painful.
343
00:19:23,495 --> 00:19:24,621
That's what I want to do.
344
00:19:27,207 --> 00:19:28,208
Good goal.
345
00:19:28,917 --> 00:19:29,959
That's a really good goal.
346
00:19:30,043 --> 00:19:31,086
So maybe one day you'll be famous.
347
00:19:31,419 --> 00:19:32,462
Maybe.
348
00:19:32,545 --> 00:19:34,172
And a lot of people know
some stuff about you.
349
00:19:36,091 --> 00:19:39,511
Some stuff, I mean, they'll think
they'll know everything, but they won't.
350
00:19:39,636 --> 00:19:40,762
Like what happened to you?
351
00:19:40,929 --> 00:19:42,097
Like what happened to me.
352
00:19:42,138 --> 00:19:44,891
You thought you knew everything,
but you didn't.
353
00:19:47,102 --> 00:19:48,144
No, I didn't.
354
00:19:48,228 --> 00:19:50,563
You listened to one source
and then you flapped your lips.
355
00:19:50,605 --> 00:19:52,941
Your funny lips, but all the same,
356
00:19:53,024 --> 00:19:56,027
you made me the face of this epidemic
357
00:19:56,111 --> 00:19:59,447
about literary men attacking
industrious, innocent young women.
358
00:19:59,489 --> 00:20:01,408
That's what two-bit journalists do.
359
00:20:02,283 --> 00:20:04,202
And you're not a journalist, Hannah.
360
00:20:06,037 --> 00:20:07,288
You're a fucking writer.
361
00:20:16,089 --> 00:20:19,968
I can't believe you have a signed copy
of When She Was Good.
362
00:20:20,135 --> 00:20:22,804
God, everyone acts like this book
is Philip Roth being the worst,
363
00:20:22,971 --> 00:20:24,472
but it's actually him being the best.
364
00:20:24,639 --> 00:20:27,100
And I know I'm not supposed to like him
because he's like a misogynist,
365
00:20:27,142 --> 00:20:28,643
and he demeans women, but I can't help it.
366
00:20:28,727 --> 00:20:29,853
I fucking love his writing.
367
00:20:29,936 --> 00:20:32,981
You can't let politics dictate
what you read or who you fuck.
368
00:20:33,064 --> 00:20:35,400
Those are my rules. Write that down.
369
00:20:35,608 --> 00:20:37,485
I'll do you one better,
I'll tattoo it on my body.
370
00:20:37,569 --> 00:20:39,320
Better.
371
00:20:40,196 --> 00:20:43,575
I heard an alternate title for this book
was American Bitch.
372
00:20:43,658 --> 00:20:47,120
I have no idea if that's true,
can't find any proof on the Internet,
373
00:20:47,162 --> 00:20:49,664
but God, if it is, fuck, that's so good.
374
00:20:51,249 --> 00:20:52,250
Why don't you keep the Roth?
375
00:20:54,169 --> 00:20:55,170
- Seriously?
- Yeah, seriously.
376
00:20:55,211 --> 00:20:56,379
I like how happy it makes you.
377
00:20:57,297 --> 00:20:58,840
But it's signed to you and everything.
378
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,511
God, I hope someone writes a book
about what a cunt I am someday.
379
00:21:03,803 --> 00:21:05,930
- Do you?
- Yeah, obviously.
380
00:21:06,264 --> 00:21:10,059
What would be better than to like ruin
someone's life with your wanton sex appeal
381
00:21:10,143 --> 00:21:12,437
and, like, icicle-sharp intellect.
382
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:14,606
But, I'm half-Jewish, so I don't
really see that happening for me.
383
00:21:16,316 --> 00:21:17,317
You really are funny.
384
00:21:19,527 --> 00:21:20,528
- Hannah?
- Yeah.
385
00:21:21,613 --> 00:21:23,239
Would you lie down with me for a moment?
386
00:21:25,950 --> 00:21:26,951
Just a moment.
387
00:21:27,535 --> 00:21:29,162
And I'd encourage you
to keep your clothes on
388
00:21:29,204 --> 00:21:32,707
to delineate any boundaries
that feel right to you.
389
00:21:32,791 --> 00:21:36,377
But I just want to feel close to someone
in a way that I haven't in a long time.
390
00:21:36,461 --> 00:21:37,462
If you please.
391
00:21:58,233 --> 00:21:59,526
Your bed smells like snacks.
392
00:22:00,777 --> 00:22:02,111
I live alone, lady.
393
00:22:03,905 --> 00:22:07,200
I'm sorry I wrote something about you
that, um, upset you so much,
394
00:22:07,242 --> 00:22:08,409
without considering all the facts.
395
00:22:10,411 --> 00:22:12,705
It's all right. I'm not angry.
396
00:22:42,068 --> 00:22:43,361
Mmm.
397
00:22:46,781 --> 00:22:49,701
Oh, my fucking God. Oh, my fucking God.
398
00:22:49,784 --> 00:22:51,035
I touched your dick!
399
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,663
You pulled your dick out
and I touched your dick.
400
00:22:53,746 --> 00:22:56,916
What the fuck, and now it's still out.
You didn't even put it away.
401
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,378
I can see your dick. It's right there.
402
00:23:00,461 --> 00:23:01,963
Hey, Dad!
403
00:23:02,255 --> 00:23:05,633
Hi, love. Hi, honey.
404
00:23:08,303 --> 00:23:09,762
Oh, my fucking God.
405
00:23:11,890 --> 00:23:14,267
I'm just confused.
I thought I was going to Mom's.
406
00:23:14,309 --> 00:23:15,977
Mom thought
you might have more fun here tonight.
407
00:23:16,019 --> 00:23:18,646
But I don't have my flash cards
or my book. I...
408
00:23:21,566 --> 00:23:22,567
Hi.
409
00:23:23,192 --> 00:23:24,485
- Hi.
- This is my friend Hannah.
410
00:23:25,570 --> 00:23:26,571
Hi.
411
00:23:26,696 --> 00:23:28,364
Why don't you go play
with your beads and things?
412
00:23:28,448 --> 00:23:29,532
I got you some new markers.
413
00:23:29,616 --> 00:23:31,492
But I want to show you
what I've been working on in flute.
414
00:23:31,534 --> 00:23:33,411
It's really good. Do you want to hear?
415
00:23:35,538 --> 00:23:36,539
Me?
416
00:23:39,250 --> 00:23:40,418
Okay.
417
00:23:40,501 --> 00:23:43,171
Excellent. Cool. Okay.
418
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:53,681
Sorry.
419
00:23:53,806 --> 00:23:55,016
Honey, take your time.
35693
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