Original subtitles

thank you

good evening I'm David suskhein now you

may think you know all about Truman

Capote but you don't tonight you're

going to see a Capote that you have

never seen before I guarantee you an

interesting experience we'll begin after

this pause

Austin but not me my guest tonight

Truman Capote leads two lives he's one

of the foremost American Authors that's

life one he's also a celebrated man

about town who's extravagant and

sometimes controversial lifestyle is the

stuff of which novels are made

to put it Loosely that's true isn't it

very Loosely in any event why do you do

things like that why do you do things

that get you into columns and get you

into the new section of the newspapers

you're too good for that you've got a

genius do anything I've since I

ever first began the publisher was in

New York for various reasons

newspapers just seem to

oh wait a minute Truman you went on

another television show and you went on

in a condition that was not you at your

best and it was a shocking and you

shouldn't have done it why did you do it

well because I didn't know I was doing

it I mean I wouldn't have done it if I'd

had the faintest idea of what was

happening

there was a show at that one o'clock in

the afternoon yes I know but you see uh

as the implication was that I had

something to drink I hadn't had anything

to drink at all well what made you so

woozy and hazy and thick tongue because

I had taken a pill uh called a tuinal

and I'd ever taken one before I'd been

at the dentist all right I took this

thing called a juvenile it didn't have

any effect on me the program started as

it was

about three or four minutes into it it

began to have this terrific effect on me

but I didn't know it

I had no idea that anything rather odd

it happened about it

but that was completely an accident I've

explained all of that

Truman what about the uh on a lecture

tour down south you fell off the

platform I did not fall off any platform

well you took a dive

no that nothing of the kind ever

happened the New York Times is an error

they did never say that the New York

Times ever said anything of the kind

because it didn't happen

Truman aren't you

non-compass metas on that platform and

didn't this at the dean of students no

do you want to know what happened

do you know what what happened really

well sure

I went walked onto the platform of the

University of Maryland

and the microphone was dead and I

started talking and I realized the

microphone was dead and I walked back

stage I stood there for about two or

three minutes then I walked backstage

and I said what what's the matter with

the microphone and they said oh there's

something wrong they're fixing it and I

said

uh how I want to be to fix it and they

said oh it's almost ready to be ready in

a minute and so I walked back on the

stage and I said something to the

audience

and the microphone was still dead and it

was dead a total of 10 minutes and I

finally I walked back of the stage and

there was a reported there from a

Washington Newspaper who I didn't know

was there in fact several reporters was

there and I got into an argument with

the stage manager about it and I said

well I'm not going to stand out there on

the stage like that like a perfect fool

and I walked off and that's exactly what

happened

I have lots of witnesses to prove it

because they went down there with me

you fall off I never you weren't

anything no the dean of students didn't

say get that man off here not at all

nothing of the kind ever happened did

you see the repetize on that incident

I saw it but I didn't say it said

anything like that oh yeah I saw what

they said it was erroneous but that I'm

telling you exactly what happened well

you should sue why should I sue if I

sued everybody for every lie that said

about me in the newspapers I would be

doing nothing else I have enough

litigation problems as it is yeah you

are suing somebody no gorby doll is

suing me I'm not suing anybody but he

sues everyone he really has litigation

on his mind oh he just sues Bill Buckley

and you he doesn't Sue everybody he lost

the bill Buckley suit no he's also suing

um

I believe that he's suing Robert

guccione the editor of Penthouse

Magazine oh yes on that Caligula movie

that they made right which has never

been put together and released which

makes you very sad because you feel

badly when the fellow authors

you are sad I'm always sad about Gore

it's very sad that he has to breathe

every day

oh Truman you really like him down there

he thought it must be awfully deep

um

Truman

why do you go to Studio 54 and so often

what is it because I like it the noise

the din

no I tell you uh quite seriously why I

like Studio 54.

it's a kind of total amalgamation of all

sorts of things it's it's my I like

nightclubs period I always have I've

been going to them since I was 15 or 14

years old you see I'm from New Orleans

and which is a big nightclub cat and I

was brought up

there in Alabama but at my family's

house is right in the quarter

and so I don't know I was spent a lot of

times in cafes and nightclubs and always

have and

oh I don't know when I was first in New

York I was working at the New Yorker

magazine I used to go almost every day

when I was about seven 17 years old and

I used to go every day to have lunch at

the store club with Luna O'Neill and

Carol

um Carol smarter she was then but then

she became Carol soray but you wanted to

be seen no no no they were just friends

of mine and we used to go there to have

lunch every day it was fun to me so the

Waldorf no but I liked the thing yes of

course I would have gone to needing some

or anything I like things like that too

I like automats I always was mad about

ornaments there's only I still go to the

automatic on 42nd Street and

what is it Third Avenue I've never seen

you in an automatically perhaps you've

never been anywhere but I like to go to

them I go to all kinds of places but

still you're getting off the point I

think that Studio 54 is the most

interesting nightclub that I have ever

been in in my life anywhere in the world

and I have lived everywhere in the world

I've lived everywhere from Moscow to

Hong Kong Los Angeles New York Venice

Rome never is there a nightclub in as

amusing as Studio 5 people there absurd

in their dress in their attitude and

isn't there a lot of spaced out folks

stretched out there

where's your sense of humor get with it

54 is a very very amusing very fun place

what's nice about it is I think it's one

of the healthiest places I've ever seen

people do very little drinking there and

very little drugging too for that matter

they're having a really good lesson I

ought to know where if I speak Truman

there's sniffing of various stuff going

on there they are like would you tell me

any nightclub in the entire United

States or Canada or Europe where people

aren't sniffing or smoking something but

I think nobody's out there nodding with

Heroin it's a bunch of people having a

good time they are really having a good

time all they're doing is dancing and

laughing and having a good time I don't

understand

about Studio 54. I have no food I think

it's just pure Envy

I just I really mean that I think people

are just envious of any kind of success

whatsoever Studio 54 is a success so

therefore it's got to be knocked all the

time true man I have seen you on one of

those lovely Banquets with your

performer star friends and your creative

designing Associates and you're all

somewhere else I said hello Truman and

you sort of giggled you saw me

personally

with my own eyes yes these eyes I even

said my God can that be Truman and I put

my glasses off when was it

oh I don't know it was a night that one

of these people was having a birthday

and you were feeling no pain and it was

a gay wild Jamboree and you were singing

you remember singing I sing a lot

but I don't know but

I did would you recommend it to your

sister

sure I'd recommend it to anybody I think

it's one of the most innocent beguiling

places and I've ever seen

is everything the way it ought to be

it's it's very Democratic it's all kinds

of colors all kinds of sizes boys and

boys together girls and girls together

girls and boys together

poor people rich people taxi drivers

anything you want it's all mixed up

together that's what I like about it I

mean the old style nightclub uh like El

Morocco or historic Club well no El

Morocco's going but I mean the point is

it was for rich people it wasn't for

people out well ostensibly they were

allowed to have a good time but it was

for rich people Truman you're passionate

perfectly Ordinary People is a new hobby

what are you talking about I've always

liked all kinds of people you're always

on people's yachts and at their great

mansions on Long Island and you're in

the Greek Islands cruising and and

you're uh at the thing in Spain with the

Pamplona bull runs and so what that's

just another thing to do isn't it I

don't see what that's got to do with

whether you like people or don't I like

all kinds of people I like rich people

because they don't aren't always trying

to borrow something from me are you

trying to borrow something from them

oh no I give a great deal more than they

give well what do you give in return for

three weeks on a super yacht

a lot of interesting conversation

right how much how expensive is it

to gambling casinos in the Aegean Sea I

mean

you've been I like to travel if I'm

going to travel I'd rather travel on a

very beautiful yacht who wouldn't

right well that's where's the passion

for the poor coming in those little

folks coming into Studio 54. I think I

pick them up on the street and take them

to Studio 54 so they can have a good

time

God you're a humanitarian I I never

thought of you that way actually I'm a

great humanitarian

well we'll be back for the very human uh

Truman Capote after this Applause

you asked me if I knew anybody who

didn't smoke yeah the real problem yes

there were two priests and a bush Doctor

Who just returned from Australia I

remember had not remembered they were

probably growing it

Truman

Truman you look better than I've seen

you look in a long time you used to be a

rather heavy chunky would be a kind word

you're down to fighting weight what are

you 135 138 you hit it right on the nail

135 is exactly what I want and that old

bloat that probably came from booze and

or other Hobbies is gone and you look

bright-eyed and bushy-tailed

you look beautiful well I go swimming a

lot I do a lot of exercising why because

I like it I like to go swimming it's a

Latter day no I've always I've always

liked to go soon was well I like a lot

of sports actually curiously enough I'm

I like to ski I like to swim

away I went all the way to Miami to see

the Super Bowl purely the fan I wanted

to play but they wouldn't let me

you and the Superman yeah it was fun

yeah the Pittsburgh Steelers would throw

you off

um

why are you having a facelift

oh

I don't know because I just decided

that um

but well I think this you see I believe

in all of the little services that you

can have done to make you feel better

I'm a great believer in dentists and I

have all my teeth and they look very

good

they're beautiful and I believe in

I've always done exercises whether

it's got to do with the face you have no

face to lift oh yes I do

[Music]

um

it's stuck it's just a small tiny thing

that I'm having done it's not some major

surgery it's just they are just a tiny

little adjustment where are you doing

this get right right here they're just

going to take a cut right here under my

chin it's actually a new operation

they've only been able to do it for

about the last eight months because they

didn't know how to do it before if they

had known how to do it before I would

have done it but you see before they

really did do face lifts I mean if you

wanted to have if you want what I wanted

done is right here there's a certain

amount of loose skin under your chin I

mean you can have it at any age when

you're 18 or something as a serious man

of loose skin right there is the one

thing that that they could never do in a

facelift they could cut above the ears

like this you see and then draw if you

had plastic surgery before just no well

yes I did I had my eyes done about town

hang my eyes done about four years ago

were you getting baggy or something

uh well actually I the upper lid on both

of my eyes was rather heavy and always

had been and I had this kind of a twitch

in my eyes it was really literally I

didn't do it for cosmetic reasons though

I certainly would have I have no

hesitation about that whatsoever but it

did improve helped my eyesight agreement

why are you on this beauty kick are you

in a lot of beauty oh God no

uh far from it if I'm in love with

anybody I'm in love with myself that's a

long Affair isn't it oh I love it it's

permanent anyway

um

no you love anybody else

yes the great many people whom do you

love

uh well I'm not sending out any

Valentines this year

but I am a very fond of a great many

people aren't you well don't switch the

birds

whom do you love I mean I'm very fun of

your wife she's great

are there any other people we might know

that I'm very fine now

oh

God you think loves would leap to your

mind yes well it's just that I have a

quite a number of people I that old

question do you have a lot of friends no

I know you didn't but I'm coming back

from it I'm in reverse the thing is that

people usually say oh well I have their

I know 40 people but I only have three

or four people or friends that I really

trust you know I don't feel that way at

all I feel I have about 30 or 40 friends

that I really trust that I can I have

good reason to think so now because the

last year of my life was certainly

pretty strenuous and I I knew who was

really

ready to help me if I needed it and who

was just uh Truman if you're worried

about naming people you love because you

may never met somebody you can come back

and say Yes it describes more love

people but I mean tell us it's not that

it's all Joyce suscon I don't blame you

for loving her she's terrific it's a

very nice person very good friend of

mine

um

gosh I don't know I like so many people

I said love

well when I like somebody it amounts to

loving them as a matter of fact I really

don't quite see the difference I mean

you see

we're talking about it no I'm not you're

talking about being in love I'm talking

about loving

all right then hey let's see

um

well I loved very much Barbara Paley

alas she died last year I

I love

um I love Andy Warhol I love Halston

they're all real good friends of mine I

love Christopher issuewood I think

Christopher's a wonderful person and I

love it

I loved he's like Dennison again the

last three

last year or two years you know more

than that

um I love

I love Norman mailer I know you don't

like dominating oh I like him pretty

well I have a great admiration for him

uh

I

I have a uh I'm in my great friend Jack

dunfee

and I love my attitude Random House Joe

Fox and I love my lawyer Alan shorts I

really do love him I love him totally

dependent on him he's a wonderful person

but if you love people why do you hurt

them I mean you you hurt Papa Paley you

I didn't hear her yes she hurt me no you

wrote answered prayers excerpts she

didn't appear in it nobody our husband

did

so other people said

Truman Capote don't sit there and tell

me that you didn't mean that character

to be William Bailey I can sit here and

tell you anything I want to it's the

free country

you're trying to turn it into a fascist

State it's still a free country

Truman you took good friends and some

that you loved and you used them in the

excerpts which instantly I thought were

brilliant pieces of writing really

brilliant and they appeared in Esquire

well Haley was not Ford and so far but

incidentally just for your own

information nothing matters Mr Paley was

not hurt about that uh excerpt from my

book at all and had it been and we would

never have had any concrete time about

it whatsoever was it other people that

were upsetting there was nobody that has

appeared in that book the only two

people that I know of that were upset

about

were both had no reason to be about uh

one is a woman who believed very much

that she was the character in the book

uh a one of the characters and she

wasn't I mean she really truly wasn't it

was based on somebody and somebody who

was a very good friend of hers but the

people convinced her that she was the

person and she got very she's the one

person and I loved that woman and I

still do I don't blame her if that's the

way she feels about it there's nothing I

can do about it but she's quite mistaken

and it wasn't her now it is true that

Barbara Paley was upset about it and

because she is a person of a very fine

character and very definite ideas of

right and wrong

she

decided that I had done something very

wrong that she was not going to forgive

me for now I respected her completely

that opinion of hers it was like

something that we agreed when you love

people and they have been friends and

you have availed yourself of their

generosity and their friendship over and

over again in a million ways is it fair

to then take the intimacies that you've

shared and

fictionalize them to use them

fictionalized about it well you've used

details that probably were true or you

suspected were true in a in a piece of

fiction call answered prayers which

which wounded them deeply to the point

where they said Truman Capote reason for

anybody to have been wounded there was

nothing hurt you're all about that at

all but anyway I'm going to answer your

question quite differently David because

I think the line you're on is very

narrow and uh

pointless because has it hurt you no it

has not and all my troubles the things

that I had happened to me in the last

couple of years had nothing to do with

my work I'd like to make that clear

right from the beginning because a lot

of the things that I've read about

myself in the last couple of years one

would assume the implication of it was

that these things were happening because

I was upset about something in

connection with my own writing and my

work what happened was an entirely

personal problem it was something to do

with me it was something inside of me

and my own relationship with other

people and it had nothing to do with my

work whatever you lose a lot of friends

no I did not lose any friends that I

know of it was

two exceptions

I would say two people I really did lose

as friends because they were very upset

about it okay but now I'm going to go

back to this question about friendships

and using material Etc in your work okay

first of all to begin with

a writer has only their own experience

to work from they have nothing else

that's All prus Tech when he wrote a

remembrance of things past he wrote

about his friends in Paris his

relationships with them he could never

have written the book if he hadn't

written about his friends and what he

knew about

Etc a writer's material is totally

derived or at least a certain kind of

writer certain social observance of

which I consider myself that kind of a

journalistic novelistic type of writer

genre

that's all they have they have nothing

else there's no other material they have

so everybody knew

that I was writing this book you knew

that I was writing this sure I even let

you read parts

to me yes you were shocked no but I'm

not in the book okay who knows there's

only your time may come David

now you profess to love joy suskin you

came to our home night after night and

read aloud from answered prayers no one

night one night oh three nights one

night two nights I went to bed okay have

it your way

anyway the point you showed up in that

book wouldn't we have good reason to be

heard don't worry you're not going to

show up in the book

I really shouldn't have let you off the

hook values easily

um

but the point is that

every writer has a right to choose and

use their own material that's my

material everybody knew I was doing this

book everybody knew it everybody knew

what the kind of a book it was and there

was no uh mystery there I was not

pretending or camouflaging anything at

all

if you take your chances it takes your

chances that's it

anyway

the book ends in in historical fact the

book ends in 1965. everything that

happens after 1965 there's nothing in my

book that ever happened to anybody after

1965. so everybody's Home Free answered

prayers your idea it's from an angel

saying that the worst thing that could

happen to you in life is to have your

prayers answered

now it comes from Saint Teresa who says

more tears are shed over answered

prayers than unanswered ones and I

thoroughly believe that to be a great

truth

I think the story of Jackie and Lee

radswell the sisters

well they actually uh are in the book

except they're mentioned occasion there

and

um but do I think that their lives or a

demonstration of answered prayer oh yes

Truman you're hard on a witness stand

yes are they Jackie Onassis the way you

phrase the question it might have been

that no not the by name but uh their

lives the prototype for your I I'll

answer that by simply saying that I

think that

that anybody who has definite goals and

Ambitions things that they want that

they think that they want let's say that

that

before you met Joyce there was some

other woman that you knew that you were

madly in love with and you thought that

if I could only have that

woman if I could only be married to that

person then I would have everything that

I wanted and that would be my answered

prayer okay it was pretty smart so you

got what you wanted then she turned out

to be

very nice really

very very nice everything is very

agreeable but

it's just like those mechanical rabbits

at the Greyhound races those rabbits are

set on the track at a certain angle uh

with Machinery going in a certain

Pace that no matter how hard that

Greyhound races he is never going to

catch that rabbit and nobody in life who

has really is a serious has very serious

driven Ambitions and goals is ever going

to have their prayer answered because

the moment they get it answered another

prayer is substituted

are Jackie Onassis and Lee radswell her

sister are they the prototypes of the

heroines of your book no

okay positively not

but I'm certainly a person who has had

prayers answers and then the Empire

owned out that I just hadn't caught the

rabbit that I wanted to catch everybody

has you have I'm sure I like I'd like to

know about your answered prayer because

you had a hand in one of my answered

prayers I'll tell you that we'll be back

in a minute

what answered prayers

what's what answered prayers came to

pass for you that you proved that proved

to you to be disappointing and hurting

you wanted to be a famous writer

I wanted to be a famous writer and I

became a famous writer but it certainly

didn't solve

I've started to say all my problems are

the men that they say I don't think it

solved any of my problems well it solved

your vocational problem you wanted to be

a famous writer you're one of these well

I think I could have been just about

anything I wanted to be within certain

areas I mean I really would have liked

to have been a lawyer do you know why

you could sue people no because I have

the one thing that that I've watched

lawyers working in courts a library

because of my other work repotage

writing a book like in Cold Blood going

to courts but

I have an extraordinary memory and the

three or four already

really good lawyers that I've talked to

her I met Zach was the key to the whole

thing it was absolutely extraordinary

memory remembering every little detail

and I have that kind of memory and I

like the whole kind of thing if I mean I

would like to have been a courtroom

lawyer working on difficult cases Edward

Bennett Williams

[Music]

Louie Niger no I doubted marveston

either

he said I well he has a certain charm

and he is a good lawyer but um he's a

great lawyer what about Roy Cohen

he's a very clever man yeah

uh well what personal prayer was

answered that proved devastating

well I

I

met somebody that I thought that I

really wanted them very much in my life

and then when I got them in my life they

turned out to be a complete nightmare

yeah I mean that's just to use one

example I can think of others but that's

a very fell in love with the wrong

person that happened yeah it happens to

everybody but it really it never

happened to me before I mean never to

that extent I made a few little minor

mistakes here and there but I hadn't

exactly got myself uh onto the Greyhound

racetrack I I just mentioned that

because I I consider that's probably the

most common

a prayer among all humans that I mean

that it's happened to everybody that

that particular kind of situation occurs

um do you have any regret at a

particular painful thing that you did to

me

um you came to me one day we were

Neighbors in the same building

you said

um in your own innumerable way I love

this person whose life is just empty of

accomplishment and and she's so gifted

and talented and I want you to do a

great television drama

[Music]

um

yes and my idea was that you should make

a remake of Laura no your idea I wish

that had been your idea your idea was

the voice of the turtle

that I said to you because I was very

sober that voice of the turtle was a

triumphant vehicle for the late Margaret

saw right that the lady in the play was

never off stage from the moment the

curtain went up to the moment the play

ended that that was a very demanding

thing maybe we better think of something

else incidentally can she act

can she act you said she's wonderful

and I remember the entire thing sure and

then I said Truman I had a dream last

night Laura Laura isn't in the play for

one half of the play everybody talks

about her how beautiful she was that's a

good idea too that's right

then you said I'll do the adaptation and

I said that's wonderful of you and then

you said not only that I've talked to

the president of ABC and we'll put it on

ABC and we did

yes we did now

um

it wasn't one of the triumphant

achievements of that particular year or

any year as a matter of fact the

newspapers and the magazines had a feel

day they took this nice girl and

crucified her yeah well it would have

happened regardless but why did you

engineer it I had listen first of all I

thought that she was very good in it I

thought that the I thought the

production was excellent all the

surrounding cast was good I thought it

was a first class production it got

tremendously high ratings it's very very

high rate now let's get into the pluses

all right it got tremendously High

rating now I think Lee was really quite

good you were in Todd you think she was

adequate well I think for that's a very

that's praise to say that she was

adequate considering the first time

she'd ever done anything like that and

was under was very nervous and under a

lot of pressure but we've got to admit

that

I hadn't foreseen it to the extent that

it did but I did foresee that no matter

what she did the Press was going to come

down on her like hell and not entirely

because of Lee read the will but because

a great deal of the press and the

particularly at that time less so now

than it but at that time they really

wanted to say nasty things about Mrs

Kennedy about Jackie but they never

could because at that time Jackie was

still a little saint Mr Onassis had

never appeared on the horizon she was

still the Widow lady you know but there

was a lot of resentment and in the

Envy's the one thing that's wrong with

this country among many things that are

wrong with it but people never recognize

that as Americans are the most envious

people in the world with a possible

exception of the French

they cannot they they love and adore

success and fame and glamor and but they

love to tear it down and throw the

person in the mud and say the nastiest

things they can about them

in all of this adulation of Jackie at

that time now we're pre Onassis pre

everything we're the Widow Kennedy

underneath all of that there was a

tremendous animosity of Envy for this

beautiful girl who everything and here

was his sister first Lee radziwell

having the nerve because she was a

sister of Mrs uh Kennedy everybody oh

she wouldn't even gotten a job if she

wasn't Mrs Kennedy's sister which is

perfectly true everybody

she wouldn't have gotten a job she

Nobody David says guy wouldn't have

produced it ABC wouldn't have put it on

the air

naturally it was going to uh have a

whole thing come down on it bang you

know I I didn't realize it would be

quite so severe as it was but but even

she knew that but she was wanting to

take the risk because she wanted very

much to have a life of her own I think

the whole thing I don't look back on it

with any regret you seem to look back on

it with regret how would you like to

come on the Johnny Carson show for the

rest of your life and they play Laura

yes but that's a private joke between

you and Johnny and you know why it has

since anything to do with any long

memory that you were the producer of

Laura it's a long memory in Johnny's

life but not and anybody else's well

because I had a party in which I did a

preview of that program for a group of

people of which you were one and Ingrid

Bergman and Johnny Carson and they were

they were some of them left the party

yeah well as you see Chinese

I suppose Johnny was offended

because he's offended by the command of

the Rich and Famous by the fact that you

can you could just say I think it was a

little bit more different than that I

think perhaps there was some element of

that any but I think it has something to

do with his sense of professionalism

I think he's sort of resented the idea

of a young lady who was not a

professional being starred in a

expensive production like that that's

what I really think it was about well

yes and I think justifiably so

mountain now do you know that the young

lady today does not cuddle the memory to

her bosom

um I know that she's bitter about it and

you see your your work has well so I

mean I can't what am I to say about it

other than what I just said

in the end perhaps although I have never

had this discussion with her I don't and

I have talked about the

program with her and other things that

she's done and she certainly has never

expressed to me any bitterness about it

I mean I mean that quite truthfully

I know that she had some feeling of

hostility towards you which I never and

you don't think that that's ironic

Justice that I was dragooned by you to

do this act against the American public

and that today I am hated really making

it as too much of a federal case here

because it happened to me

but you survived I would like you to

just didn't divorce you your daughter

said mantha didn't run away from home I

have all those millions in the numbered

account in Switzerland I really can't

grieve over it David honestly thankful

for minor Pleasures none of which as you

get older David they all become minor

all pleasures become minor with age

well they I don't know I had to give up

drinking I had to give up smoking I had

to even give up taking an occasional

sleeping pill

and I don't know there are a few left

but yeah well I'm getting so picky that

that's practically our non-existent too

my standards are getting very high your

monastic existence is depressing I will

come back to The Saga of war after this

pause

um Gilman you've been a kind of friend

and observer of the Rich and Famous for

a long time what makes them uh different

aside from their money they are

different the rich yeah Mrs Guinness oh

yes Haley is the biggest because they

serve better vegetables than other

people they have such delicious little

tiny scarcely born vegetables and all

out of season and everything's great now

little lambs that Hardy were born

little tiny carrots little peas oh it's

fabulous things like that you know it

makes you fall in love but aside from

the little peas and carrots and the

gorgeous cauliflower I mean

what about them

are they interested

they're interested in each other

well isn't that boring

well you see the the rich in that sense

they are do cling together it's a real

click I was quite fascinated to read you

know about Nelson rockefeller's memorial

service uh people that I know for a fact

didn't like Nelson at all at all we're

there

uh are you there no I wasn't there okay

uh

but I mean I know many very very rich

people who

say they're going to give the big cruise

and the Turkish Coast they've got a

yacht with a crew of 26 they can have 14

guests

with a couple of exceptions of some sort

of intellectual or somebody who knows a

great deal about Turkish archeology

practically everybody on that yard will

be somebody who's very very rich

because they cling together

no

life itself some of them are dumb and

some of them are extraordinarily gifted

and intelligent

ah

some of the most well for instance I'll

give you an example of a man who's

extremely intelligent in every way of

cultivated

Charming a man very few people his name

is

picture scarcity ever appears in the

paper anything uh Paul Mellon he's

certainly one of the two of the three

richest men in America probably in the

world I couldn't couldn't possibly be

more intelligent I'll tell you another

me that people don't hear about his name

is Roberto Anderson

Atlantic Richfield oil company he's a

great philanthropist a man of tremendous

charm and intelligence very well read

very cultivated and ever since the great

friend of mine Mr Paley is a cultivated

person I could not possibly be more so

he's the only man I've ever met who has

such an extraordinarily highly developed

sense of aesthetic that one day I was

watching him sharpen some pencils he was

just sitting in a desk with a little

pencil sharp and he kept sharpening

these pencils and putting them down and

finally looked up at me and he said what

are you looking at me like that for and

I said because it's really an aesthetic

experience to watch you sharpen those

pencils you have such a nice idea of how

it should be and how it should look and

what color it should be and where it's

going to be placed in that box when Bill

Paley walks into a room his eyes scan it

like with the magical thing and he sees

everything that's good and everything

that's bad

that's why I had to marry a woman like

Barbara Paley who was Perfection all of

these things will he marry now do you

think I don't think that he would bury

anybody again I mean

he has a very a very nice life hundreds

of friends they all adore him

and um I'm sure he

must be very a lonely man without

um Barbara Petty because she was really

really unique

uh you told us about some distinguished

sophisticated intelligent rich

who are some dreary Rich Charles redson

I mean beyond that you can't go

I I would agree with that but he's very

dead

oh well that's one lucky thing isn't it

I mean he was uh yeah he was dreary and

Boris but he's gone and he's in the

bosom of the Lord and we should not say

anything unkind about it uh somebody

somebody I don't see why the dead should

be immune I think they're a good game

myself only because they can't answer

back who cares they've got lots of

relatives and lawyers and things

um an eerie way of rising from the grave

no he's not coming back is he thank God

please don't threaten us

who's alive who's rich and dreary

Jerome Zipkin

you can't get drearier than that and

he's alive

yeah

I can tell you a mob is a zipkin's

theory but it isn't arable

it isn't Arab I mean a recent one well

don't Jesus wwd calls him a social moth

WWE's women's wear daily yeah you can't

use those code words here as an American

puppets

how do you feel about it this is a good

game Rich dreary people

[Music]

um

Rich Fury people

on David Rockefeller is very nice and

very boring

uh Lawrence Rockefeller is very Charlie

that's a strange family

um how are the Kennedys

how's Jacqueline well you know somebody

asked me

uh what I would give Jackie uh

for a Christmas presents some columnist

asking and I said oh a sex change

operation

and they said what a what I said a sex

change operation they said why would you

give her a sex change operation I said

well the American public absolutely

seems to die to have a Kennedy and I'd

rather they'd have Jackie than Teddy

get it yes

yes that's not all that complicated I

think it's bad taste huh well I think

it's quite I think it's questionable how

is she as a person as a social being to

talk with I mean um

geez It's a Wonderful story Philip Roth

tells about

about being her escort you know his wife

very funny he's very funny very witty

man he uh his wife died in an accident

in Central Park and he was something of

a uh a social lion in the sense that he

was a bachelor

[Music]

and he was much in this

in

an extra man he was the extra man and he

was sought after and

I wonder if I can tell this I'll think

about that what do you think of her as a

social person at dinner her knowledge of

the world her concern with human life

from where women's wear daily I only get

a sense that she's a compulsive shopper

that she's in Valentino and she says she

is a compulsive Shopper a lot of people

are I'm a compulsive shopper

um

as a matter of fact it's my favorite

form of exercise to be with her is to

bask in a particular Radiance do you

think

oh I don't know there's something about

Jackie I've always liked her you know I

knew her when

well I knew her before she was

ever married and we take her today do

you have you seen her lately

yes I saw her in the club a couple of

months ago she's not one of those people

who have taken a dim view of your

written answer no no okay when you've

seen her is she friendly do you share a

Von moles do you talk about what do you

think of Iran or no well I've seen her

since Iran right by the way you know the

Shah and Farah deeper are very good

friends of mine no I didn't know that

yes I thought they'd Escape something I

went to stay with him in Iran about five

years ago

uh I would well I knew them originally

from Switzerland because you know I used

to spend every winter in Switzerland and

um and I was the very good friend of

pharaoh Diva who's a Charming delightful

nightmares a very intelligent sensitive

person and I like the Shah very much I

think all this is a

terrific tragedy because

of course and it is true all the

corruption in Iran and the Iranian royal

family went into the big country the way

it set up the complications of it he

really was trying very hard to make all

sorts of social improvements in

education gosh knows the Iranian women

were emancipated to an extraordinary if

you were to discover that he had two

billion dollars in Swiss bank accounts

and American stocks and real estate

would you be against I would assume that

he did

should a man loot his country

I think it was his own money

that he inherited from Dad

well I inherit you look yes come on he

stole the country blind I don't believe

that

I believe I believe completely fit his

relatives did an awful lot uh and I

don't think that they did it without his

knowledge but I don't think that the

Shah is basically a dishonest man I

really don't he's right I know a great

deal about it red and I know that all my

most intelligent friends like Alex

Colbert those guys that call him for the

Village Voice and he's been you know

riding very uh strong in the against the

Shah for years now and I know many my

friends who could not possibly be more

anti-shop and I I know a number who know

him as well as I did and who agree with

me and I think that they will come to

regret this because this the business of

the moolahs and and the of the leftists

there making a combination together will

never work it's all going to end in some

kind of incredible Civil War when the

when you were guest of the Shah did he

have those lovely little peas and

tomatoes and potatoes yes he did did he

and marvelous caviar too golden only the

shaw has it it's not brown or gray I

mean it's not black and it's not gray

it's golden what about little unborn

Lambs well these golden caviar is unborn

caviar or unborn sturgeon

come come David get with it the war is

over come out of the trenches

oh I'm coming out of the trenches in the

next segment we'll be right back