All language subtitles for Krishnas.Gurus.Karma.Murder.S01E02.720p.WEB.h264-EDITH_track3_[eng]

[ Ominous music plays ]

♪♪

-My father told my mother about

these ongoing dreams
he was having.

He would be under a starry sky

at a campfire

with an elder person.

And this elder wise
person told him,

"You're going to be murdered

by enemies in the
guise of friends."

[ Gunshot ]

And this elder wise person

would pick up pieces of wood

from the stack of
wood he had there

and place those into the fire.

♪♪

And every time he would
have this dream again,

there was less wood.

And it was understood
by my father

that once that wood
would be all burned...

♪♪

His time would be up.

♪♪

He knew.

♪♪

♪♪

[ Indistinct chanting ]

♪♪

-May I ask you how you feel

when someone bows down on
the ground in front of you?

-That is not meant for me.

That is meant for... for God.

-The new Vrindaban,
Kirtanananda, Keith Ham...

he wanted to make New Vrindaban

the glory of the Hare
Krishna movement.

He was a big guru, you
know. He was God on Earth.

You know, there's a certain
dictator psychology.

It was never... normal.

-Kirtanananda, or Keith Ham...

God, I just remember him
being larger than life.

You lived and
breathed Kirtanananda

and serving Kirtanananda.

That was your life.

People just sitting at his feet,

worshipping his feet,
giving him money,

giving him gifts.

And I just remember looking
up and just being like,

"Oh, the man is so great.
He's so wonderful. He's God."

-He went from being
one of the gurus

that were practicing
what Prabhupada taught

and getting the
movement out there

to turning it into
his own religion.

But he also chose

a super-isolated
part of the country.

You were up in the
mountains of West Virginia,

surrounded by woods.

Once Kirtanananda
got you out there,

once he got his clutches into
you and got you out there,

you weren't leaving.

[ Mid-tempo music playing ]

-If you look at
political dictators,

you can worship the state or you
can say you're worshipping God,

but there's a lot of
shared psychology, I think.

So criticizing Kirtanananda
and all that was intolerable.

It's Kirtanananda.

♪♪

♪♪

-My father was Chakradara,

and Charles St. Denis by birth.

And, yeah, he was very
jolly, very cheerful,

at the same time very
straightforward, fearless.

And he had a conflict
with Kirtanananda.

Part of his leadership position
is that he's a celibate,

he's pure, and so on.

But my father had heard,

and maybe he observed
something... I don't know...

but I know he was
speaking openly

that you may be portraying
yourself to be a pure person,

a pure devotee of Krishna,

but you're engaged
in immoral activities

such as having sex with workers

while still playing this role
of being avowed celibate guru.

-Chakra called him a hypocrite.

You've collected all this money.

You drive around in a
stretch Cadillac limousine.

Charles made an
enemy of the Swami.

His wife called me one day.

She was crying and she said,

"Sergeant Westfall,
Chakra is gone.

Something's happened to him.

I'm afraid that Thomas Drescher

may have done something
to my husband."

And I believed her.

Thomas Drescher would
be a pretty imposing,

scary kind of guy.

He took to the role of being
a bully, and he liked it.

And Kirtanananda...
he enjoyed having him.

He was like his
personal protection.

But what I learned is that
it all started with Dan Reid.

-Dan Reid, Daruka, was
my father's friend.

Our families were very friendly,

knew each other very well,
spent time together often.

My father's relationship with
Dan Reid was complicated.

His wife and my
father had an affair.

-Dan Reid suspected that
his wife had had sex

with Charles St. Denis.

It was too much for him.

He told Kirtanananda,

"Charles St. Denis
had sex with my wife,

and it's embarrassing for me.

And I want you to do
something about it."

Kirtanananda told Dan Reid,

"Get Tirtha," which was
Thomas Drescher's name.

"Tell Tirtha that I told him

to take care of
Charles St. Denis."

So Drescher went to see
Kirtanananda Swami and said,

"You want me to take care
of Charles St. Denis?"

He waved his hand
and Drescher said,

"A wave of your hand
is not good enough.

Do you want me to kill
Charles St. Denis?"

He said, "Yes."

[ Telephone rings ]

Dan Reid called and said,

"Chakra, let's
bury the hatchet."

Charles St. Denis
told his wife,

"I'm going to Dan Reid's place."

He didn't know

that Thomas Drescher
was also in there.

And she never heard
from him again.

♪♪

[ Man chanting indistinctly ]

Well, the next day,
his wife realized

that Chakra wasn't there.

She went down to Reid's
house and asked Dan Reid,

"Have you seen Chakra?"

And he said, "I don't know.
Why would you ask me?"

She didn't know what happened,
and that's when eventually

she would come to the
sheriff's department

and report that her
husband was missing.

She had gone to the point
of hiring an airplane

to fly over the entire community

so she could see
where his vehicle was.

♪♪

A friend of Charles' called
on the phone, and he said,

"Charles's car is sitting a
block down from the house,"

but he said he hasn't... he
hasn't seen anything of...

of Chakra.

We went over the vehicle.

We didn't see any
evidence of a struggle

or any visible
evidence of blood.

And it didn't lead us to
any more of a conclusion.

But as I went back to my office,

I was thinking, "This is
not a good situation."

There was a good chance
we were never gonna see

Charles St. Denis again.

And as time went on, he
didn't contact Deborah.

No one had any contact with him.

So I came to believe,
just as Deborah did,

that he was probably killed.

But nobody was really listening
because we didn't have a body.

I went out to the farm
over the next few days,

and I would talk to devotees.

Devotees who used to talk to me

and look me in the eye
would look away and say,

"No, we think he's probably
just... he left her.

He went to
California. He's away.

He's on some trip or something."

When I approached Dan Reid

and asked him about
the situation,

I thought Dan Reid
was gonna faint.

His face was completely
white. He was sweating.

His hands... he was
wringing his hands.

And I would say,
"Well, where is he?"

And he would say, "I
don't have any idea.

I don't know."

Not more than three
hours after I left,

he headed for California.

But Kirtanananda
was on the road.

I pulled up beside
him and I said,

"Hear anything about
Charles St. Denis?"

And he said,
"Charles St. Denis...

He's gone to California.
Everybody knows that."

And I said, "Ah, he
never left here, Swami.

He never left here."

I think there was an
undercurrent of people

who did believe that
Charles St. Denis

had been killed by the Swami.

I came to believe that
he was probably killed

and that Thomas Drescher
had something to do with it.

-I didn't know
anything at the time,

but there was a request
that came from my mother

for me to come to her room,

and she didn't
speak immediately.

She took time, perhaps
composing her words,

and then kind of
abruptly saying,

"He's gone. Your
father is gone."

She told me right
there she believed

that Dan Reid and
Tirtha, Thomas Drescher,

had killed my father.

And even as I remember it now,

even after years of
going through this,

it's chilling.

And I started talking to
my schoolmates about it.

"Hey, did you know
this happened to me?"

You know, like, "Tirtha
and Daruka killed my dad."

The teachers overheard
what I was saying.

And they announced to us that

my father had
suddenly left town.

He had gone on vacation.

And I was confident that what
my mother told me was the truth

and I just said, "No, Tirtha
and Daruka killed my father.

I know."

Boy, they grabbed me,

took me into the side room,

and beat the shit out of me.

Slapped me, kicked
me, pushed me around.

I was crying.

My cheeks were burning,
like, real hot.

I was arguing that, "No,
they murdered my father.

My father's dead."

"No, he's not. He's
just on vacation."

And shook me about and
threw me on the ground

until I agreed and
repeated back to them,

"Okay, he's gone. He's
just gone on vacation."

"Say it again." "Yes,
he's just on vacation."

"Good."

Until I got that real straight,

they basically kept beating me.

Before my father was killed,
I wasn't afraid of anybody

'cause my father
was big and strong.

But from that time
on, it was very clear

that I was just open game.

♪♪

[ Man chanting indistinctly ]

-With the Charles
St. Denis murder,

nobody was really listening
because we didn't have a body.

If we go to trial
without the body,

they would be found not guilty.

We couldn't try them
again if we had a body.

It would be double jeopardy.

-Kirtanananda was
just out of control.

I think that led to a sort
of a perfect storm brewing

because you have a
narcissistic leader,

and therefore, to him, the
end justifies the means,

whatever it takes...
murder, whatever it takes.

♪♪

[ Man chanting indistinctly ]

-New Vrindaban, I
think, epitomized

that messianic superiority
where Kirtanananda,

he wanted to build up
New Vrindaban as almost,

I guess, like a... like a
Hindu Vatican or something.

-It was just...
it was beautiful.

And I think that's
what the goal was,

for Kirtanananda
to build this...

Heaven on Earth.

-Never expected to
see anything like this

in the hills of West Virginia.

- Absolutely incredible.
- Oh, it's fabulous.

-I just don't know
how they did it.

-We began with four block walls,

and then we added the
terraces and fountains

and so many things.

The additions are
still going on,

and hopefully they'll
go on eternally.

-Kirtanananda had
a lot of plans.

He had many more plans to
expand the palace area,

you know, make a
spiritual Disneyland.

♪♪

How to make gold leaf, how
to, you know, build pillars,

how to do all the things for
construction to build it.

-Srila Kirtanananda Swami says

it's impossible to put
a value on the building.

-Insurance men...
they just back off.

No one will actually say because
it's impossible to build.

-It was a wonder of the world

in terms of the artwork
and the craftsmanship.

At one point, it became
so prominent that

they had tens of
thousands of people

coming on tourist
buses to see it.

But then, to build
a city on the hill,

he used sort of ruthless means.

-Hare Krishnas have
been asking for money

at airports for years now.

Krishnas have a big
operation going,

all the money tax-free because
they are a religious group.

-The Hare Krishna
philosophy of raising funds

for the church was
the term sankirtan.

Sankirtan was essentially
devotional fundraising.

-Every time you
went to an airport,

Hare Krishna devotees
would approach you

and ask you if you'd like to
have a copy of their book,

and then they would
ask for donations.

-We were distributing
millions of books,

but we didn't own
anything as individuals.

It was foot soldiers
out there selling books

and collecting money
in large quantities.

-But Kirtanananda
led for New Vrindaban

all kinds of activities

which are very much
outside our principles.

-Transcendental trickery.
What does that mean?

-Deceiving someone

in any way to get a donation.

[ Man chanting indistinctly ]

-At New Vrindaban, they
found a way to go out,

collect money,
and lie to people.

These young devotees who did not
look like Hare Krishna devotees

would approach people
and ask them for money

for well-known charities
like Meals on Wheels,

Vietnam vets, schools, churches.

They called it The Pick.

-At New Vrindaban,
sankirtan became The Pick,

or whatever you might call it.

Do you know why it's
called The Pick?

Because that's something
that carnies do.

It came from a word
that carnies use

when they are taking
advantage of people

or pickpocketing.

They needed money
for New Vrindaban.

They needed money for
the Palace of Gold.

They needed money to keep
Kirtanananda's lifestyle up.

-At New Vrindaban,
well, [chuckles]

you know, the issue
is they used women,

and he worked them hard.

-There was a group of women

who went across the
United States in vans

selling books and
collecting money.

-Many of them would say, "I
was stuck in this situation.

It's like schizophrenia.

I came here because I wanted
a non-material lifestyle,

and yet my duty to Krishna was
to get in the back of a van

with 15 other people and
drive from place to place

and lie to people
to collect money."

-I never determined how
they figured this out,

but the Hare Krishnas
in New Vrindaban

would make baseball caps
and bumper stickers,

major college memorabilia...

Ohio State,
Michigan, Notre Dame.

And they would
send the teams out

on a college football
game weekend,

and the women would walk
through the parking lots,

and they would assert
that this is for

Save the Children,

this is for lonely
children in America,

whatever they could make
up, and sell this material

which they were paying
cents on the dollars for.

They would bring in close
to $1 million a weekend.

[ Indistinct talking ]

-We sold the heck out
of those stickers.

We had them loaded by
the boxfuls in our vans,

just every team
you could think of.

We also had generic
stickers like Snoopy

that would work for
generic kind of events,

and we'd have,
like, an itinerary

to make our way
to this big event

and work smaller
things along the way.

We went to a lot of
really cool stuff,

like Indy 500.

The concerts were awesome.

We had people who were
drinking and doing drugs,

so they weren't as
uptight with their money.

-Anything where there
were a lot of people,

but I was like kind
of, like, not outgoing.

So for me to be in a big
crowd, I was, like, terrified.

[ Bell rings ]

First thing they sent me
to was a Kentucky Derby.

They said, "Oh, let's
see how she does."

Kirtanananda said that.

And I-I really actually spent

90% of my time in the bathroom

crying and freaking out
'cause I was so scared.

But against my desire, I became
one of the biggest collectors.

You know, people thought I
was attractive back then,

so I was, like, stuck,

because even with me
not wanting to do it,

I could collect more money
than the rest of them.

But then it became to where
it was, like, too much

about making money, and,
you know, we have, like,

things that we're
supposed to follow,

our spiritual thing every
day, which we used to do.

But then it was
like, well, you know,

you're going out and
collecting money,

so you don't have
to do any of that.

And that's when a lot of
us went off the deep end

and, you know, strayed and
had all kinds of problems.

♪♪

And because of
being on the road,

I developed, you know,
drinking problems.

I mean, I just couldn't take it.

I was actually an alcoholic
before I joined the Krishnas.

That's why my mom was so happy
that I joined the Krishnas,

because I never drank anything
once I joined the temple,

until one day when I was
on sankirtan years later.

But I was kind of,
like, stuck doing it

because the more money you made,
the more you had to go out.

But...

Kirtanananda would have
a target of how much

he'd want to collect for
a certain period of time.

I made like a quarter of a
million dollars in that year.

[ Laughs ] Yes.

-A good day might be around
$1,000 or more per person.

We'd have a room full of
just money everywhere.

The deposits could never
be more than $10,000

so that it wouldn't
trigger the feds.

I guess the bank just
got used to us coming in

with these $9,000
deposits every single day.

-That was their principal
fundraising organization.

But if you weren't
super successful,

Keith Ham was quoted as saying,

"There are three things that
are better when you beat them...

your drum, your
dog, and your wife."

-Kirtanananda felt
like the Palace of Gold

would make him a
prominent person

because he'd be making the
biggest temple in America.

New Vrindaban became the
de facto biggest community

in ISKCON.

-Kirtanananda exuded
the feeling that,

"I'm the chosen one

and I hold the power."

We didn't really
like that very much

[chuckles] as a
group of leaders.

He always, right
under the surface,

was pissing everybody off.

It was like, "Okay,
uh, Kirtanananda,

you have your project and
we have ours, you know.

So don't get too far
ahead of yourself."

-Kirtanananda started
saying things like,

"It's my temple, it's
my men, it's my money.

I can do what I want."

He started getting very
arrogant, let's say.

-Pretty soon, sankirtan became
an incredible moneymaker.

And the man who ran
that was Dennis Gorrick.

-In trying to figure out the
hierarchy of New Vrindaban,

Dennis was almost like an
independent contractor.

Dennis didn't have to
really partake in anything

as long as he kept
the money coming in.

-In the parlance of
criminal organizations,

Dennis Gorrick was an earner.

He was in charge of the
main money-making operation,

The Pick.

-Dharmatma's Western
name was Dennis Gorrick.

Doing The Pick, this was
somebody you did not cross.

He was definitely a bully,
especially towards women.

He had this close
relationship with Keith Ham,

which gave Dennis
more authority.

-Kirtanananda...
he's your leader.

The best analogy is
gonna be the don,

your Mafioso,
right? He's the top.

And then underneath
him, you've got guys

who are his made
men, his captains.

Dennis... his role is
to control this section,

control the women's
sankirtan, bring in the money.

It was organized crime

with Kirtanananda at the top.

-Dennis Gorrick
was also ruthless

and treated the
devotees horribly.

If they wanted off of The
Pick, they would have to

ask Dennis Gorrick,
and he might slap them.

He might shove them
against the wall.

He might tell them,
"Until I tell you,

you stay on The Pick."

-He could basically do
whatever he wanted to do,

because money means power.

And so Dennis could do things
that were outside of the rules,

like illicit sex with
the women on his team.

And I became one of them.

And I... And I did this

knowing that it was
against the rules

and it was against
our basic principles.

He was held, in
general, in such esteem

that I thought
that if he did it,

it was okay.

My first conversation
with Dennis Gorrick,

he told me he knows
how to please women.

Promise them everything
and give them nothing.

-He had his own harem...

Multiple, I guess you
would call them, wives.

But, you know, some of the
New Vrindaban marriages

weren't based on any concept
of love or companionship

or... it's just,
you were assigned.

And for women, your
job was to serve.

-The culture around Dennis
was that if it made him happy,

it should make me happy.

And if I wasn't happy for him,

there was something
wrong with me.

Th... I can't call
it anything else

but being brainwashed.

And rumors abounded,

not just illicit relationships
with the women on his team,

but other women
in other temples.

Dennis was told by Keith Ham,

"You marry one of them or
you marry all of them."

Dennis decided he would
marry three of us.

-I never, ever liked the idea.

I didn't want to do it, but I...

it was either I go along with
having two other co-wives

or I wasn't married
to Dharmatma,

and I was too attached
to him by that time.

Christina and I were both
pregnant at the same time,

which was weird 'cause,
yeah, we weren't...

didn't really get
along, you know?

It was almost like, "Who's
gonna have the baby first?"

kind of competition.
[ Laughs ]

So I had Dhruva, and
then three days later,

Christina had Prema.

♪♪

-My mom didn't even
get to name me.

Kirtanananda named me.

I mean, that's like...

who does that?

Being a girl in New Vrindaban,

you're not looked at on
the same level as any boys.

You were told from
a very young age

that you weren't
gonna go to school,

you were going to
be, um, married off,

most likely to somebody
not of your choosing.

You're just less than.
You're not valued.

-Um, it was a lot of fun times.

It was really just a
beautiful playground.

The place was... was heavenly.

And to me, he was just Uncle
Kirtanananda, you know?

He was always very good
to me, to my friends.

Like, he would... you
know, he'd play with us.

My father was quite a genius.

It was so awesome,
what he started...

this new, like, tidal wave

of good energy, money
coming in, wealth.

-As soon as Dhruva was born,

we were both very attached and
happy to have him, you know.

But that's when Kirtanananda
told my husband,

"Tell your wives
they have to go out."

So when Dhruva was
two months old,

I had to leave him behind
and go out on the road

and wouldn't see him for weeks.

And that's when I
kind of realized

that he wasn't all
he's cracked up to be.

'Cause you wouldn't
do that to a mother,

I don't think, personally.

-One of the strangest
things that happened...

the women who were ordered
to go out on sankirtan,

their children would be watched
in... in a nursery situation.

-In Krishna consciousness,
you would want to make sure

that you were not attached to
anything in this material world,

including people, which
would include your children.

So your children were
removed from you,

and then they would go
off to a boarding school.

-In the gurukula system
in New Vrindaban,

we would have one teacher
who would be the teacher,

in whose ashram room you
lived, where you slept,

and he was in charge of you.

-If you could talk, if
you knew how to [chuckles]

make change for a dollar,
you were out on The Pick.

If you weren't, you
were in the gurukula.

People who were mentally
unstable and obviously had,

you know, what we
call now anger issues

were in charge of
watching these children.

-I suffered physical
abuses that were

so normal and so frequent

and so intensive.

Kids got their arms
broken from being yanked

and roughly handled around,

constantly being beaten
in many different ways...

switched with switches,
paddled with paddles,

punched, [chuckles] whatever.

And it was a lifestyle,
you know, that we lived,

that we grew up with.

Like, that's what our whole
childhoods were made of.

I was alone. I didn't
have protection.

My mother at that
time was collecting.

She was gone for
long periods of time.

I didn't see her much.

Keith Ham's example
and character

certainly flowed down
everything that I experienced.

He basically would preach that
you have to control your wife,

you know, keep her in line,
and beat her if necessary.

Everything flows down from
the top in that sense.

-In New Vrindaban,

women were definitely
seen as, um,

lesser human beings.

Dennis was so controlling

to, uh, the point
where we had to ask,

"When can I eat?
What can I have?"

I was at risk at all times

of anywhere from a slap

to a very severe beating.

He was and is an evil man.

I absolutely think that
Dennis would refuse

to do an interview with you.

♪♪

-Dennis Gorrick
interview. Mark.

[ Woman chanting indistinctly ]

-I'm not gonna say that
I was such a pure guy.

I had my problems, too.

Our philosophy is based on
separation of the sexes.

Just for that reason, the
butter and fire principle...

men are like butter and
women are like fire,

and when the two come
together [chuckles]

generally, you know, the
butter starts melting.

So on some occasions,
I had relations

with, uh, some of the ladies.

On a couple of occasions
women told me that,

"I'm gonna leave if, you know,
you don't do something with me."

I was perplexed because,
you know, I felt guilty.

So I went to
Kirtanananda and he said,

"Well, whatever it takes,

whatever it takes to keep
them out there on The Pick,

getting... making money."

But there could be up to
100 devotees going out.

It became more stress for me.

Sometimes I was a little firm

and maybe a little...
heavy-handed.

-Kirtanananda told him...

he said, "What if
I'm having trouble,

like, the girls
don't want to go out?

What should I
do?" And he said,

"Oh, just smack them.
That always works."

-When he gave me that
instruction that I smack them,

you know, I-I did
it on occasion.

You know, they would
argue, they would, uh...

they'd challenge you
or cuss or something.

And I-I would smack them,

I mean, after getting the, uh,
go-ahead from Kirtanananda.

But our philosophy is such
that if the spiritual master

asks you to do something,

you take it as,
uh, something good.

I thought it was something
that had to be done.

As Kirtanananda explained,

whatever keeps them
doing their service.

Prior to getting the
go-ahead from Kirtanananda,

I'd never hit a woman in
my life and, you know,

I-I feel terrible about
it, that it happened, uh...

You know, uh...

You know what I mean?
Sometimes you just lash out

when you get very
disturbed and angry.

-Dennis beat me with,
um, a wooden coat hanger.

He beat me with a
metal nail file.

His favorite tool was,
um, a rubber hose.

One of the worst times
was when I was pregnant.

He made me strip
off all my clothes,

lay on the floor,

and he just beat me
with that rubber hose

up and down my back,
up and down my legs.

-The rubber hose. Mm.

Well, t-truth being, uh,

she was one of the
biggest problems.

There was a few times that
I just lost it with her.

And I might have picked up
something that was handy...

a stick or, you know,
they say rubber hose.

There might have been a piece
of something to that effect.

The problem is, nowadays
with the #MeToo movement,

women can say anything.

And, you know, i-it's
for me to prove.

-Oh. Man, I don't even know.

It hurts through every
layer of skin that you have.

I remember that I had
to stand up all night

because the only
place that didn't hurt

was the bottom of my feet.

I did not dare press charges

because he would kill me.

Without a doubt.

And I finally just
decided, you know what?

My kids are gonna
have Mommy dead,

Mommy in an insane
asylum somewhere,

or Mommy out trying to
make it in the world

to give them a safe home.

And that was when I decided
that I had to leave.

♪♪

Okay.

Can we... Can we move on?

♪♪

-I have this memory from
when I was four of my mother,

Christina, escaping
New Vrindaban.

I remember being told
for a couple of weeks

that she was coming back.

Well, she never came back.

And then the story changed.

My father... he told me,
"She doesn't love you.

She's not coming back.
She never cared about you.

Just forget about her."

I was four.

♪♪

[ Voice breaking ] I
hated her for so long.

[ Sniffles ]

So long.

And wanted absolutely
nothing to do with her

because of what my father did

and how he poisoned
all of us against her.

That was the way things
were done in New Vrindaban

to exert control.

It was more of that mental
and emotional abuse.

♪♪

-When Kirtanananda got too much
involved in people's lives,

it caused him to
almost lose his life

because people
fought back at that.

-In October of 1985, a
call came in that said

somebody had attacked
Swami Kirtanananda.

-I was sitting on his lap
when he got hit on the head

by a metal pole of sort,

and my father was there holding
Kirtanananda's head together.

When he got out of the
hospital, he was different.

-The doctor said it was
enough to kill 100 men.

-That was the spiritual
pushback to the extreme.

And once he survived that,
he became more extreme.

[ Man chanting indistinctly ]

♪♪

-When Kirtanananda
survived the attack,

he was never the same.

Whatever he was before
exponentially expanded

into a kind of...

mish-mash spiritual madness.

And his followers
just followed him

because they're
basically minions

instead of self-thinking
individuals.

-The Swami bought an attack dog,
a very expensive attack dog.

He had personal security
people around him.

Once he had the dog growl and
snarl at me and he asked me,

"Well, Sergeant Westfall,
are you afraid of my dog?"

I said, "Well, unless they
have bulletproof dogs, Swami,

I'm not afraid of your dog."

[ Indistinct singing ]

-Kirtanananda was
kind of losing it.

He became, like, less
and less, uh, himself.

We... that's what I felt.

And more and more,
like, off the deep end.

So, and, you know, people
were following him.

Many devotees that lived
there didn't want to believe

that he had lost it and that
he had done anything wrong.

So they stayed with
him no matter what.

-I think a lot of people
there either didn't know

what he was doing or
just kind of thought

they weren't supposed to
be thinking about that

because he's a superior.

It's interesting how,
in the name of morality

and the name of decency,
people can become monsters.

♪♪

♪♪

-My dad... I didn't know
whether he was dead or alive

or really what that meant
any more than he was gone.

Was he alive? Was he dead?

How does this resolve?

-I had a murder that I'd been
investigating for several years,

the Charles St. Denis murder.

My prosecutor would
not go forward

because there was no body.

We didn't have
the corpus delicti

is what the attorneys
always called it.

[ Man chanting indistinctly ]

-Eventually, the West Virginia
State Police had been approached

by a man named Steven Bryant,

who claimed that, um, there
were all sorts of crimes

going on out in New Vrindaban,

including murder
and child abuse,

and, you know, Keith Ham
was running the operation.

-Since 1977, these new
self-appointed gurus

have made 300, 400,
500 disciples each.

So right now they hold
the power of the movement

in their hands, but they
don't hold the morality.

-Steve Bryant was a
personal friend of mine

and he told me, "I'm gonna
go to New Vrindaban."

And I says, "Oh,
you can't go there."

I was trying to warn him.

He says, "Oh, yeah, uh, my
wife wants to be with devotees

on a... on a rural community,
so we're gonna go there."

I says, "No, no, no,
no, no, big mistake."

-Steve was a... a zealot.

He was a person who interpreted
scripture all of the time

and always called people out
for they were violating this

or they were violating that.

-The word that comes to
mind is he was manic.

He had a jewelry business
that required him to travel.

-And he had absented
himself from New Vrindaban,

and when he returned, he
realized that Keith Ham

had initiated his wife.

-So Kirtanananda
became her authority.

And that's one of the things

Steve Bryant was
complaining about.

-He doesn't seem to be
under the spell of Keith Ham

because he can resist.

Well, Keith Ham can't
tolerate resistance.

-The walls started tumbling down

when they had another
Hare Krishna devotee

who was about to come
into an inheritance,

so they married Steve Bryant's
wife to this new member

to keep him on the community
long enough for them

to get the inheritance,
which the Swami

would be able to
get his hands on.

That's what had him riled up.

-And he knew that Keith
Ham had taken over control

of his wife, and
by virtue of that,

had gained control
over his children.

And he's trying to get his
children out of the community.

-One day he grabbed his kids

and left New Vrindaban
property in his van.

And he was chased down
by New Vrindaban people.

They forced him to stop,

and then they took his
kids back to New Vrindaban.

[ Indistinct chanting ]

So after that, he called
me up and he says,

"I'm gonna come to Berkeley.

We're going to do
some writing together.

We're gonna defeat these guys.
We're gonna take them down."

So he was in Berkeley

writing his book called
"The Guru Business."

[ Typewriter keys clacking ]

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

-He wanted to expose what was
happening to the Krishnas,

and he wanted to set
the record straight.

Steven Bryant was going around
and talking to people and...

and what you saw
happening at the gurukula,

at the... what they
call with the school...

there was child abuse.

What was happening
out on The Pick,

and this story about this man,

St. Denis, who
had been murdered.

It was kind of a
whispering out there

and not knowing
what had happened.

Steven Bryant... he was
just so damn thorough.

And, you know, he was
picking up momentum

and get... and getting
more and more information

and more and more
first-hand accounts.

And he was also a catalyst.

And I feel that he was
emboldening people to talk.

-Then he started
traveling to other temples

and would make his allegations
about New Vrindaban.

And that word was getting
back to Keith Ham.

-He's threatening Keith
Ham by telling him,

"Listen, I'm going to reveal.
I'm pulling the curtain back."

-He talked to devotees.

He said, "The sinister movement
is within our movement,"

and they couldn't have some
whistleblower going around

saying there's criminal
activity going on.

Just like the mob, you
can't have a snitch.

Can't allow that.

♪♪

-Steve was coming back for
the 1985 World Conference

where all of the officials
of the Hare Krishna movement

were going to be in,
uh, West Virginia.

Steven Bryant felt that he was
gonna burst into this meeting

and he was gonna make his
accusations against Kirtanananda

and the gurus were all
gonna turn around and say,

"Well, we're gonna remove him."

And then Steven Bryant was
going to be the victor.

-He had written statements.

He had cassette tapes that
he brought from people.

And I was surprised
at how many people

were willing to talk
to Steven Bryant

and perhaps bring about a change

where their love
for the religion

could be totally aligned with
the love of the hierarchy

that was actually
administering that religion.

Steven was brave, but
Steve was also foolhardy.

-At one point before the
1985 World Conference,

he called my
sheriff at the time,

Sheriff Donald Bordenkircher,

and said, "I want to appear
at the World Conference,

but I need personal protection."

But in West Virginia, sheriffs
are elected officials.

And Sheriff Bordenkircher knew
that when he ran for reelection,

if he could pick up 500 votes
from the community out there

just by doing some
favors for them,

that was a pretty good trade.

So what the sheriff did was
called the Hare Krishnas

about the conversation
with Steven Bryant

and that he was coming back,

and that put the Krishna
community on alert.

-Steven was so happy because,

"Oh, I'm working
with the sheriff,

and I'm doing God's work."

And at some point, the sheriff
had said he should get a gun

or make sure you
protect yourself.

So he's staying
at a local motel.

And the sheriff came by, and
when he sees the sheriff,

he said, "Hey, I got the piece."

He shows him the gun. He's
really proud of himself.

And like... and the
sheriff says, "Good, good.

That's good," you know.

-So then the sheriff
called two road deputies in

and told them to locate
Steven Bryant and arrest him.

His pistol was in
his... in his belt.

Well, the two deputies
put him down on the floor,

put the handcuffs on,
seized his .45 pistol,

and took him up to the office,

and they charged him
with a weapons charge.

-So it was the sheriff's
idea that he gets a gun.

He gets a gun.

Sheriff comes and arrests
him for having a gun.

So he wondered just how
deeply this connection went

between the sheriff
and the Hare Krishnas.

It came out while Steve was
in jail on the gun charge

that the sheriff had
actually invited members

of the Hare Krishna community
in to view all these documents

that Steve Bryant had collected

that were incriminating
the Hare Krishnas.

The sheriff was encouraging
Steve Bryant to collect

in order to incriminate the
Hare Krishnas, and, in fact,

the sheriff had invited
the Krishna community in,

members of the
community in, to say,

"Here's what Steve
Bryant has on you."

-Steven Bryant was
held in the jail

until the 1985 World
Conference was over.

When Steven Bryant
got out of jail,

That's when they
started to surveil him.

Thomas Drescher took
a Snoopy sticker

that they used in their
sankirtan collections

and put it on the back
bumper of his van,

so that made tailing
him that much easier.

♪♪

-At that point, Steve told me,

"I'm gonna quit doing all this."

He told me, "I'm gonna
give up on this battle.

I'm not gonna do this
anymore. It's too dangerous."

-He really felt betrayed
by the authorities.

-When he came back,
he was gonna just

start his life over again.

But it was too late.

-I remember two guys
coming to the door,

and Dennis told me to get
$5,000 out of the money room.

And then, um, I saw
him handing this money

to Thomas Drescher.

-Tirtha had come to my house,

and he showed me some
pages from a book

where Kirtanananda was being
criticized by Steven Bryant.

And then I was authorized
to give him some money

to do surveillance.

That's all it was
supposed to be for...

surveillance of Steven Bryant.

-That's when Thomas Drescher...

he was given money for it,

and he was on his way with
some false identification.

He went to Los Angeles.

-And I said, "Steve,
don't go to L.A.

Don't go to L.A.
because the police here

in Berkeley like us.
This is our refuge."

But Steve was very worried
that if we were together,

we would both be
taken out together,

and then there would be no
one left to tell the story.

He wanted to go to Los
Angeles for that reason.

He said, "This is probably the
last time I'll ever see you."

He knew.

-I got a call from the
detective from Los Angeles,

and he asked me if I
knew Steven Bryant.

And I'm thinking about the
file cabinets and the boxes

and all of the
materials that I had.

-Everything went on with
Kirtanananda knowing about it

in the community.

-The attorney said,
"We need to talk,

because I can help
you find the body.

We need to make a deal."

-The first image that
I can remember seeing

was them pulling
my father's skull

out of the earth.

-They were also concerned about
assaults and sexual crimes

against the children
in the schools.

-Kirtanananda had this
philosophy that sex is sex,

and you're having your sex

within the bounds
of your marriage.

And you're criticizing
these guys for having,

as he called it, "hankie panky"
in the gurukula with the boys.

-You're taking down
an organization

or taking down someone,
suddenly there's a... the flip.

And now 51% is
turning against them.

[ Gunshots ]

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪