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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:15,167 --> 00:00:17,375 (birds singing) 2 00:00:17,459 --> 00:00:19,876 David Raccuglia: I always loved Starved Rock. 3 00:00:19,959 --> 00:00:24,375 My father used to take me hiking on the trails. 4 00:00:24,459 --> 00:00:28,542 It's called Starved Rock from some sort of tribal war. 5 00:00:28,626 --> 00:00:32,834 One tribe surrounded the rock, and the other tribe couldn't 6 00:00:32,918 --> 00:00:35,375 get down at the top of the rock, 7 00:00:35,459 --> 00:00:37,626 and they starved them to death. 8 00:00:39,292 --> 00:00:42,918 (Interviewer speaking) 9 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:47,167 I think everything in the Illinois Valley is possibly a myth. 10 00:00:49,209 --> 00:00:53,375 So, you know, you never know. 11 00:00:53,459 --> 00:00:56,209 Narrator: And now, we visit Starved Rock State Park 12 00:00:56,292 --> 00:00:59,709 on the south bank of the Illinois River in the south county. 13 00:00:59,792 --> 00:01:04,125 Visitors who fled the city seeking peace and quiet and beauty and comfort 14 00:01:04,209 --> 00:01:06,000 are richly rewarded in this wonderland 15 00:01:06,083 --> 00:01:09,000 of strange and beautiful sights. 16 00:01:11,167 --> 00:01:12,250 (intense music playing) 17 00:01:12,334 --> 00:01:14,459 David: LaSalle is a sleepy little town. 18 00:01:14,542 --> 00:01:16,667 This town was completely not prepared. 19 00:01:16,751 --> 00:01:18,792 Things like this just didn't happen. 20 00:01:21,542 --> 00:01:23,375 People didn't lock their doors. 21 00:01:23,459 --> 00:01:26,042 They weren't afraid of violence. 22 00:01:26,125 --> 00:01:29,792 Narrator: This is truly a winter wonderland. 23 00:01:29,876 --> 00:01:35,792 But that was before three women were murdered violently. 24 00:01:35,876 --> 00:01:37,667 Reporter 1: March 16th was the date. 25 00:01:37,751 --> 00:01:39,584 The three Chicago women had been found dead 26 00:01:39,667 --> 00:01:42,250 in a state park 90 miles from Chicago. 27 00:01:42,334 --> 00:01:44,000 Reporter 2: Police say the women were beaten to death, 28 00:01:44,083 --> 00:01:46,334 and their bodies dragged into the cave about a mile 29 00:01:46,417 --> 00:01:48,167 from the main lodge of the state park. 30 00:01:48,250 --> 00:01:51,292 Do you think that this, uh, person could still be here in this area? 31 00:01:51,375 --> 00:01:55,167 He could possibly be. We're checking out, uh, that, uh, possibility. 32 00:01:55,250 --> 00:01:57,834 Reporter 3: His men have no leads on anybody 33 00:01:57,918 --> 00:02:00,292 in this brutal triple slaying. 34 00:02:01,083 --> 00:02:02,792 (exhales deeply) 35 00:02:03,709 --> 00:02:06,167 In March of 1960, 36 00:02:06,250 --> 00:02:08,667 I was only seven months old, 37 00:02:08,751 --> 00:02:12,584 but the Starved Rock murders... was with me 38 00:02:12,667 --> 00:02:16,375 from the first day I could form a memory. 39 00:02:18,751 --> 00:02:21,876 LaSalle County, it's about a hundred miles 40 00:02:21,959 --> 00:02:24,083 southwest of Chicago. 41 00:02:24,167 --> 00:02:26,751 It's a very isolated little community, 42 00:02:26,834 --> 00:02:30,959 so when the murders happened, it was mayhem. 43 00:02:31,042 --> 00:02:34,709 All of a sudden, people were putting double and triple locks on their doors 44 00:02:34,792 --> 00:02:38,334 out of their fear that this madman was loose. 45 00:02:39,250 --> 00:02:42,500 But as shocked as the town was, 46 00:02:42,584 --> 00:02:44,667 they were even more shocked 47 00:02:44,751 --> 00:02:49,000 when a local man was charged with the crime. 48 00:02:49,083 --> 00:02:51,584 Reporter 1: Chester Weger was sentenced to life in prison 49 00:02:51,667 --> 00:02:55,417 after being convicted of murder back in 1961. 50 00:02:55,500 --> 00:02:59,125 As a kid, when I used to hear the name Chester Weger, 51 00:02:59,209 --> 00:03:02,167 fear used to come into my body 52 00:03:02,250 --> 00:03:05,918 because my grandmother, she had this massive scrapbook 53 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,626 filled with newspaper clippings, magazine articles 54 00:03:09,709 --> 00:03:13,834 from all over the world, of Chester Weger. 55 00:03:13,918 --> 00:03:16,375 He looked like the movie actor James Dean. 56 00:03:16,459 --> 00:03:18,250 He had incredibly cool hair, 57 00:03:18,334 --> 00:03:22,292 the epitome of bad boy '50s youth. 58 00:03:24,959 --> 00:03:27,751 At the same time, I used to lay in bed 59 00:03:27,834 --> 00:03:32,000 terrified that Chester Weger was gonna climb through the window 60 00:03:32,083 --> 00:03:33,375 and kill me... 61 00:03:35,125 --> 00:03:38,959 because my father was the prosecutor 62 00:03:39,042 --> 00:03:43,876 who put Chester Weger in prison for life. 63 00:03:45,751 --> 00:03:49,417 Chester Weger became my boogieman. 64 00:03:49,500 --> 00:03:51,083 Reporter 1: At the age of 43, 65 00:03:51,167 --> 00:03:54,125 Weger has spent the bulk of his adult life behind bars. 66 00:03:54,209 --> 00:03:57,918 Reporter 2: Locked up 14 years before the Sears Tower was built, 67 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,083 Chester Weger, Illinois' longest serving inmate. 68 00:04:01,167 --> 00:04:04,709 Reporter 3: For 45 years, Weger has insisted he's innocent. 69 00:04:04,792 --> 00:04:07,459 Reporter 4: Each year, Weger goes before the parole board 70 00:04:07,542 --> 00:04:08,918 hoping to be released. 71 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:10,751 Reporter 5: He still insists that he had nothing to do 72 00:04:10,834 --> 00:04:13,375 with the murders of the three women. 73 00:04:15,751 --> 00:04:17,834 David: My grandmother, she used to tell me, 74 00:04:17,918 --> 00:04:20,083 "If he ever gets out of jail, 75 00:04:20,167 --> 00:04:21,918 he's gonna come and kill us all." 76 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,626 Reporter 1: New at ten, Chester Weger... the infamous Starved Rock... 77 00:04:24,709 --> 00:04:27,542 The Starved Rock killer is about to be freed. 78 00:04:34,709 --> 00:04:36,542 Announcer: Limited time only at the Igloo. 79 00:04:36,626 --> 00:04:38,250 It's OMG good. 80 00:04:38,334 --> 00:04:39,959 Find it today at the Igloo. 81 00:04:40,042 --> 00:04:42,834 Carryout available, on Route Six, West Peru. 82 00:04:42,918 --> 00:04:44,792 Announcer 2: Rod and Jeremy in the morning 83 00:04:44,876 --> 00:04:50,292 on Classic Hits 103.9, WLPO, LaSalle. 84 00:04:51,542 --> 00:04:53,876 Rod (on radio): It's 9:05, WLPO news is now, 85 00:04:53,959 --> 00:04:56,375 and I wanna take your calls and texts. 86 00:04:56,459 --> 00:05:00,000 I'm thinking it through on Chester Weger's, uh, case. 87 00:05:00,083 --> 00:05:02,876 Now, he is a convicted killer. My opinion is that he did it. 88 00:05:02,959 --> 00:05:05,125 Uh, yours may be different than mine. 89 00:05:05,209 --> 00:05:08,209 That's okay, you're respected around here for your opinion. 90 00:05:08,292 --> 00:05:10,834 WLPO and it's Phyllis, uh, 91 00:05:10,918 --> 00:05:12,626 with the first comment about this matter. 92 00:05:12,709 --> 00:05:15,375 -Good morning, Phyllis. -(Phyllis on phone): 93 00:05:23,918 --> 00:05:26,334 Caller 2: I knew his sisters, I knew Chester. 94 00:05:26,417 --> 00:05:28,459 I'm sorry, he is guilty. 95 00:05:28,542 --> 00:05:30,876 Caller 3: I think that he should have a new trial. 96 00:05:30,959 --> 00:05:34,375 Uh, all these years it's always been in question and that. 97 00:05:34,459 --> 00:05:36,500 - Yeah. -Jeremy: Well... 98 00:05:36,584 --> 00:05:38,626 Rod: Uh, pick up the phone or turn the radio down, please. 99 00:05:38,709 --> 00:05:41,542 815-223-3093. 100 00:05:41,626 --> 00:05:43,209 Steve Stout: Sixty years later, 101 00:05:43,292 --> 00:05:47,500 people are still scared of going to Starved Rock. 102 00:05:47,584 --> 00:05:49,709 When I started writing my book in the '80s, 103 00:05:49,792 --> 00:05:51,834 my friends from Chicago said, "The reason we don't go 104 00:05:51,918 --> 00:05:54,959 to Starved Rock is because you once had a murder there." 105 00:05:55,042 --> 00:05:58,918 I said, "The reason I don't go to Chicago, 'cause once you had a fire." 106 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:00,876 Bad things happen in good places, 107 00:06:00,959 --> 00:06:02,751 and that's what happened that day. 108 00:06:02,834 --> 00:06:05,292 Reporter 1: Three women, close friends and neighbors in Riverside, 109 00:06:05,375 --> 00:06:07,584 had gone to the park Monday for a winter vacation. 110 00:06:07,667 --> 00:06:09,918 Their bodies were found this morning about a mile 111 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:11,834 from the main lodge of the state park. 112 00:06:11,918 --> 00:06:15,334 The victims were 50-year-old Mrs. Lillian Oetting, 113 00:06:15,417 --> 00:06:18,000 50-year-old Mrs. Mildred Lindquist, 114 00:06:18,083 --> 00:06:21,209 and 47-year-old Mrs. Frances Murphy. 115 00:06:21,292 --> 00:06:26,292 The three women left a total of nine children. 116 00:06:28,584 --> 00:06:32,209 Kathy Etz: I don't think we talked a lot about my grandmother 117 00:06:32,292 --> 00:06:33,751 when I was a kid. 118 00:06:33,834 --> 00:06:36,042 I think it was just extraordinarily painful, 119 00:06:36,125 --> 00:06:38,876 so I just didn't bring it up. 120 00:06:40,792 --> 00:06:44,292 I know from my aunts and my mom, obviously, 121 00:06:44,375 --> 00:06:47,334 what made my grandmother really special, 122 00:06:47,417 --> 00:06:48,918 but one of the real tragedies 123 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:50,584 is people ask me, "What was she like," 124 00:06:50,667 --> 00:06:52,918 and I'm like, "I don't know what she was like." 125 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:57,292 I don't know what made her special 'cause I never got to meet her. 126 00:07:03,334 --> 00:07:06,876 I mean, the photo that really kills me... 127 00:07:06,959 --> 00:07:09,000 it's, actually, this one. 128 00:07:09,083 --> 00:07:11,918 Here's my mom so excited to get married, 129 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,709 and just thinking that nine months later her... 130 00:07:15,792 --> 00:07:17,459 she was gonna learn this horrible thing, 131 00:07:17,542 --> 00:07:18,959 and her mom was gonna be gone. 132 00:07:19,042 --> 00:07:21,459 It... I don't know. When I look at this photo... 133 00:07:22,751 --> 00:07:24,792 it really upsets me. 134 00:07:36,584 --> 00:07:39,834 My grandmother was going away with two women, 135 00:07:39,918 --> 00:07:44,042 uh, spend a few days at Starved Rock hiking. 136 00:07:44,125 --> 00:07:47,125 Steve: They parked their car at the lodge, 137 00:07:47,209 --> 00:07:50,042 checked into their rooms. 138 00:07:50,125 --> 00:07:53,542 They left most of their possessions in those rooms. 139 00:07:53,626 --> 00:07:57,334 They had lunch, decided to take an afternoon walk. 140 00:07:57,417 --> 00:08:00,542 They left the lodge. 141 00:08:00,626 --> 00:08:03,000 They spent some time taking pictures of themselves 142 00:08:03,083 --> 00:08:06,292 in front of the ice fall in St. Louis Canyon. 143 00:08:09,667 --> 00:08:11,542 And they never returned. 144 00:08:11,626 --> 00:08:13,667 (phone ringing) 145 00:08:13,751 --> 00:08:16,834 Kathy: One of the husbands called the inn to say that 146 00:08:16,918 --> 00:08:18,042 he hadn't heard from his wife 147 00:08:18,125 --> 00:08:21,334 who was supposed to have phoned him. 148 00:08:21,417 --> 00:08:24,626 Steve: That night there was a tremendous snowstorm here 149 00:08:24,709 --> 00:08:26,167 that really shut things down. 150 00:08:26,250 --> 00:08:27,709 (phone ringing) 151 00:08:27,792 --> 00:08:28,751 Wednesday, they called again, 152 00:08:28,834 --> 00:08:31,542 and they said, "This is not right. 153 00:08:31,626 --> 00:08:34,792 They would've called by now. What's goin' on down there?" 154 00:08:34,876 --> 00:08:37,584 So, they went into the rooms. 155 00:08:37,667 --> 00:08:39,250 Kathy: The beds had not been slept in, 156 00:08:39,334 --> 00:08:43,083 the luggage was intact, undisturbed. 157 00:08:43,167 --> 00:08:45,542 Steve: They went out, looked at their car, 158 00:08:45,626 --> 00:08:49,334 and it was covered with snow. It hadn't moved. 159 00:08:50,125 --> 00:08:52,209 They knew at that moment 160 00:08:52,292 --> 00:08:56,292 they had three people missing at Starved Rock State Park. 161 00:09:06,250 --> 00:09:09,083 Rod: Phil on the WLPO River City Ways text line says, 162 00:09:09,167 --> 00:09:11,083 "Can you imagine if he didn't do it? 163 00:09:11,167 --> 00:09:12,459 "There's a miscarriage of justice 164 00:09:12,542 --> 00:09:14,083 that he spent his whole life behind bars." 165 00:09:14,167 --> 00:09:15,959 Jeremy: But you have to believe in the justice system, 166 00:09:16,042 --> 00:09:18,959 especially when people of, of such high character 167 00:09:19,042 --> 00:09:21,125 as the attorneys who tried this case... 168 00:09:21,209 --> 00:09:23,918 David: This murder that happened in 1960 169 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,334 has left this town completely divided. 170 00:09:27,417 --> 00:09:31,959 It's like anything, everybody has their opinion. 171 00:09:32,042 --> 00:09:35,083 It took me a long time, it took me years, 172 00:09:35,167 --> 00:09:39,250 several years, to find my footing with this. 173 00:09:39,334 --> 00:09:42,751 A man behind bars in Illinois since 1960 174 00:09:42,834 --> 00:09:45,375 is looking to the governor for clemency tonight. 175 00:09:45,459 --> 00:09:47,667 David: In 2003, a good friend of mine 176 00:09:47,751 --> 00:09:51,292 sent me a newspaper clipping, 177 00:09:51,375 --> 00:09:55,125 and it said that there was an appellate court defender 178 00:09:55,209 --> 00:09:58,334 who was opening Chester Weger's case, 179 00:09:58,417 --> 00:10:00,125 trying to prove his innocence, 180 00:10:00,209 --> 00:10:01,834 and that he was wrongfully convicted. 181 00:10:01,918 --> 00:10:03,334 Reporter 1: His attorney, Donna Kelly, 182 00:10:03,417 --> 00:10:05,334 argued that her client should be pardoned. 183 00:10:05,417 --> 00:10:10,000 For Chester "Rocky" Weger, the pardon hearing may be his last bid for freedom. 184 00:10:10,083 --> 00:10:15,626 She was accusing my father of, of making inaccurate claims 185 00:10:15,709 --> 00:10:18,125 about Chester Weger's case, 186 00:10:18,209 --> 00:10:21,834 and, you know, it was funny because that really hit me, 187 00:10:21,918 --> 00:10:24,167 and I realized that... 188 00:10:25,834 --> 00:10:27,834 I wonder if that was true. 189 00:10:29,250 --> 00:10:32,500 Growing up with this case, my father was my hero, 190 00:10:32,584 --> 00:10:36,542 so reading this news article with all these accusations, 191 00:10:36,626 --> 00:10:38,751 that made me very, very angry. 192 00:10:40,500 --> 00:10:43,918 My mother passed away when I was nine years old. 193 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:49,292 My father raised my sister and I with the help of my grandmother. 194 00:10:49,375 --> 00:10:53,000 I was treated very well in LaSalle by a lot of people 195 00:10:53,083 --> 00:10:56,000 because Anthony Raccuglia, my father, 196 00:10:56,083 --> 00:10:59,292 put away the Starved Rock murderer. 197 00:10:59,375 --> 00:11:03,751 And, at the same time, I was treated sometimes very poorly 198 00:11:03,834 --> 00:11:06,876 because many people in this town believe 199 00:11:06,959 --> 00:11:10,417 that my father put away an innocent man. 200 00:11:10,500 --> 00:11:15,751 I had friends that couldn't come over to my house, 201 00:11:15,834 --> 00:11:19,250 and I used to get in fights, like physical fights, 202 00:11:19,334 --> 00:11:24,584 over defending my father for handling this case. 203 00:11:24,667 --> 00:11:26,959 I remember running home to my father, 204 00:11:27,042 --> 00:11:28,334 and he hugged me and said, 205 00:11:28,417 --> 00:11:30,876 "I'm telling you, you have nothing to worry about. 206 00:11:30,959 --> 00:11:34,542 Chester Weger was guilty. I put a guilty man in prison." 207 00:11:34,626 --> 00:11:36,751 And that made me feel good, you know, 208 00:11:36,834 --> 00:11:40,959 knowing that my father was on the right side of the law. 209 00:11:41,042 --> 00:11:45,459 But could it be possible that Chester Weger was innocent? 210 00:11:45,542 --> 00:11:47,834 There was something to get to the bottom of. 211 00:11:47,918 --> 00:11:49,500 Crew Member: All set. Sound speed. 212 00:11:49,584 --> 00:11:51,959 David: That was the one thing that sent me 213 00:11:52,042 --> 00:11:53,834 into forward motion in making a film. 214 00:11:53,918 --> 00:11:57,292 I bet you love this, right? I come to your office, and disrupt your whole day? 215 00:11:57,375 --> 00:11:59,375 Well, it's the only time I get to see you, though, 216 00:11:59,459 --> 00:12:01,584 is when you're... want something, you know? 217 00:12:01,667 --> 00:12:05,542 -David: Well... -At least that's an opportunity for me to get to talk to ya. 218 00:12:05,626 --> 00:12:07,542 You know I have a lot of questions. 219 00:12:07,626 --> 00:12:10,334 I've been calling you, and talking to you about it. 220 00:12:10,417 --> 00:12:12,209 Anthony Raccuglia: My question is, why are you doing this? 221 00:12:12,292 --> 00:12:15,042 I know you were always obsessed with this case. 222 00:12:15,125 --> 00:12:18,751 Do you remember how disturbed you were that, maybe, he would get out of prison, 223 00:12:18,834 --> 00:12:21,083 and come and harm the family and harm you, 224 00:12:21,167 --> 00:12:24,292 and how you wanted to sleep with me almost every night? 225 00:12:24,375 --> 00:12:26,417 You'd be waiting for me when I came home? 226 00:12:26,500 --> 00:12:30,250 Isn't it a little bit ironic that now you're doing 227 00:12:30,334 --> 00:12:34,500 a documentary as to whether or not this man is innocent? 228 00:12:34,584 --> 00:12:37,375 There just isn't any doubt that the man was guilty. 229 00:12:37,459 --> 00:12:40,000 It's just the story. I wanted to tell the truth. 230 00:12:40,083 --> 00:12:41,709 I wanted to go all the way back to the beginning, 231 00:12:41,792 --> 00:12:46,000 and exhaust all urban legend, and try and just tell the story 232 00:12:46,083 --> 00:12:48,709 as it, as it really happened. 233 00:12:51,459 --> 00:12:52,876 I came back to LaSalle. 234 00:12:52,959 --> 00:12:54,751 -Crew Member 1: You rolling? -Crew Member 2: Yeah. 235 00:12:54,834 --> 00:12:57,918 -David: Oh good. Shit. -Crew Member 3: These people think he's innocent. 236 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:02,459 David: And one of the first things I did was get all of the data, 237 00:13:02,542 --> 00:13:04,626 all of the trial transcripts, 238 00:13:04,709 --> 00:13:07,292 everything from the investigation that existed. 239 00:13:07,375 --> 00:13:09,000 -Crew Member 1: Is that all right? -Crew Member 2: Yeah. 240 00:13:09,083 --> 00:13:11,959 David: I was able to get a lot of people 241 00:13:12,042 --> 00:13:14,876 from the case because of my father. 242 00:13:14,959 --> 00:13:18,042 The Starved Rock murder gave him some fame. 243 00:13:18,125 --> 00:13:19,709 And my grandfather spent 244 00:13:19,792 --> 00:13:22,792 45 years as an alderman. 245 00:13:22,876 --> 00:13:26,209 So, I interviewed several prosecutors. 246 00:13:26,292 --> 00:13:30,292 Oh yeah, you don't have to be too smart, you just use common sense. 247 00:13:30,375 --> 00:13:32,083 That'll solve a lot of questions. 248 00:13:32,167 --> 00:13:33,751 David: Journalists of the day. 249 00:13:33,834 --> 00:13:35,667 (dogs howling, barking) 250 00:13:35,751 --> 00:13:39,417 And I wanted to go to where real information was, 251 00:13:39,500 --> 00:13:41,000 and that was on the street. 252 00:13:41,083 --> 00:13:45,042 (country music playing) 253 00:13:45,125 --> 00:13:49,250 There was a big festival called the Burgoo Festival. 254 00:13:49,334 --> 00:13:53,292 There's hundreds and hundreds of people. 255 00:13:53,375 --> 00:13:57,209 We just put it out there that we were gonna be in town, 256 00:13:57,292 --> 00:14:01,042 and we had lines of people wanting to talk to us. 257 00:14:01,125 --> 00:14:04,751 Person: If Weger did it, I must've been his accomplice. 258 00:14:04,834 --> 00:14:10,000 There's no way that one man could have contained them women. 259 00:14:10,083 --> 00:14:12,334 David: The people who believed in his innocence 260 00:14:12,417 --> 00:14:13,626 were very passionate. 261 00:14:13,709 --> 00:14:16,667 I don't care what anybody says, I'll never believe it. 262 00:14:16,751 --> 00:14:18,542 Sensible? Not always. 263 00:14:18,626 --> 00:14:19,876 (Interviewer speaking) 264 00:14:19,959 --> 00:14:21,751 The man is innocent as can be, 265 00:14:21,834 --> 00:14:25,876 and, uh, and I'll go to my grave believin' that. 266 00:14:25,959 --> 00:14:27,918 He wasn't bigger than a fly. How in the hell... 267 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:32,584 You ever get three women that's mad, and try to tie 'em all three up? 268 00:14:32,667 --> 00:14:35,375 David: The other 50% of the people 269 00:14:35,459 --> 00:14:38,542 couldn't have believed in his guilt more. 270 00:14:38,626 --> 00:14:41,209 -Yeah, I think he's very guilty. -Guilty. 271 00:14:41,292 --> 00:14:43,292 Sometimes people's nature is just evil. 272 00:14:43,375 --> 00:14:45,584 David: The community is incredibly passionate. 273 00:14:45,667 --> 00:14:47,751 It's almost political. 274 00:14:47,834 --> 00:14:50,000 I don't think a country boy can do something like that. 275 00:14:50,083 --> 00:14:52,584 David: I talked to anybody that would give me a story 276 00:14:52,667 --> 00:14:53,918 about Chester Weger. 277 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:55,792 Person: I do think Steve Stout's book 278 00:14:55,876 --> 00:14:58,375 is the primary reason today 279 00:14:58,459 --> 00:15:01,125 people are convinced Chester's guilty. 280 00:15:04,626 --> 00:15:06,542 David: Growing up in this area, when you hear the words 281 00:15:06,626 --> 00:15:08,083 "Starved Rock," you think of Steve Stout. 282 00:15:08,167 --> 00:15:10,250 -I, personally... -Well, that's nice to say. 283 00:15:10,334 --> 00:15:11,709 David: Well, in my father's home, 284 00:15:11,792 --> 00:15:14,459 there's a photograph that you did of the canyon, framed... 285 00:15:14,542 --> 00:15:16,542 I love the park, and I'm very proud 286 00:15:16,626 --> 00:15:20,292 to have people think about the park, and link me with it. 287 00:15:20,375 --> 00:15:22,125 I respect the park. I call it "my park." 288 00:15:22,209 --> 00:15:24,918 I would never hurt my park. 289 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:26,250 It's just an amazing place. 290 00:15:26,334 --> 00:15:28,167 That's what attracted the three women 291 00:15:28,250 --> 00:15:30,000 into St. Louis Canyon that day. 292 00:15:30,083 --> 00:15:31,876 You know, Starved Rock is named from violence, 293 00:15:31,959 --> 00:15:34,876 and that day it, it really lived up to its name. 294 00:15:34,959 --> 00:15:39,459 Bill Danley, a reporter at the LaSalle Daily News Tribune, 295 00:15:39,542 --> 00:15:42,083 he was there at the time the bodies were discovered. 296 00:15:42,167 --> 00:15:44,334 David: We have six minutes of tape on this tape, 297 00:15:44,417 --> 00:15:45,626 and we have to change. 298 00:15:45,709 --> 00:15:48,167 Either way, I'd like you to tell the story. 299 00:15:48,250 --> 00:15:50,292 I was 29 years old at the time, 300 00:15:50,375 --> 00:15:52,417 and about, uh, eight years into 301 00:15:52,500 --> 00:15:54,626 a 15-year newspaper career. 302 00:15:54,709 --> 00:15:57,626 On that morning, sometime early, we'd got a, a report 303 00:15:57,709 --> 00:16:01,083 that three women were missing at Starved Rock Lodge at the park. 304 00:16:01,167 --> 00:16:04,042 We drove down to the mouth of the St. Louis Canyon 305 00:16:04,125 --> 00:16:05,709 and started walking in. 306 00:16:05,792 --> 00:16:08,709 And you come around into what is the bulb of that canyon, 307 00:16:08,792 --> 00:16:12,375 and right in front of you in the wintertime is a truly majestic frozen waterfall. 308 00:16:12,459 --> 00:16:18,042 Like a giant pipe organ, you know, in an ice land of some kind... 309 00:16:18,125 --> 00:16:22,500 and the fresh snow, and it looked just so pristine, like a calendar picture. 310 00:16:22,584 --> 00:16:24,751 And then, you turn, and right here, 311 00:16:24,834 --> 00:16:26,876 you know, is the carnage. 312 00:16:29,709 --> 00:16:33,000 Eye-level in front of us were the bodies of those three women. 313 00:16:34,250 --> 00:16:36,667 Nobody was expecting that, and I'm telling you, 314 00:16:36,751 --> 00:16:39,542 it hit 'em like with the force of a physical blow. 315 00:16:41,626 --> 00:16:44,792 And I think the thing that, that made it seem so profane was the fact 316 00:16:44,876 --> 00:16:47,751 they, they weren't lying where they had fallen... 317 00:16:47,834 --> 00:16:49,918 not willy-nilly, they had been put on display 318 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,459 with their legs spreadeagled, their underclothes torn away. 319 00:16:57,083 --> 00:16:59,918 Philosophically, I thought I was opposed to the death penalty, 320 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,876 and I'm here to tell ya on that day, in that canyon, 321 00:17:03,959 --> 00:17:08,542 I crossed that barrier because I looked at that scene, 322 00:17:08,626 --> 00:17:11,167 I thought, if the man, the person who did this, 323 00:17:11,250 --> 00:17:13,417 and could be brought to justice, and the only way 324 00:17:13,500 --> 00:17:16,792 he could get what he had comin' to him was for me to throw the switch, 325 00:17:16,876 --> 00:17:18,459 I would do it in a heartbeat. 326 00:17:18,542 --> 00:17:22,083 And I guess I haven't changed my mind all these years on that subject. 327 00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:26,334 These women were not just murdered, 328 00:17:26,417 --> 00:17:29,250 they were brutally beaten, 329 00:17:29,334 --> 00:17:31,876 almost to the point of decapitation. 330 00:17:31,959 --> 00:17:37,626 Eyewitnesses of this, they were never able to get it out of their minds. 331 00:17:37,709 --> 00:17:40,292 Bill: You just kinda grit your teeth, and you take the pictures, 332 00:17:40,375 --> 00:17:42,626 and you'd write the stories and you do the thing, but... 333 00:17:42,709 --> 00:17:45,626 you still go home, and dream at night, you know? 334 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,459 So, that was where the investigation got underway, 335 00:17:49,542 --> 00:17:53,334 and, immediately, the decision was made the state police would take charge. 336 00:17:53,417 --> 00:17:57,083 Anthony: There was a competitive edge to this investigation. 337 00:17:57,167 --> 00:17:59,918 The state police, the sheriff's office, 338 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,709 and Harland Warren trying each to solve this crime. 339 00:18:09,751 --> 00:18:14,584 Harland Warren: I, uh, had no education in solving criminal cases. 340 00:18:14,667 --> 00:18:18,083 But... you gotta have common sense, 341 00:18:18,167 --> 00:18:19,834 and the only reason I had common sense was 342 00:18:19,918 --> 00:18:23,292 because I was born and raised on a farm in Serena Township. 343 00:18:23,375 --> 00:18:28,459 I've never met anyone that reeks of another era more than Harland Warren. 344 00:18:28,542 --> 00:18:29,876 (laughs) 345 00:18:29,959 --> 00:18:32,626 He has that conservative, 346 00:18:32,709 --> 00:18:35,626 1960 kind of style about him. 347 00:18:35,709 --> 00:18:39,375 When he starts tellin' the case, he closes his eyes, and... 348 00:18:39,459 --> 00:18:43,042 See, uh, about 12:30 349 00:18:43,125 --> 00:18:47,167 on a, a Wednesday, the 16th of March, 350 00:18:47,250 --> 00:18:48,500 I was at the club. 351 00:18:48,584 --> 00:18:51,083 I had my lunch, and I was playin' gin rummy. 352 00:18:51,167 --> 00:18:54,125 I mean, who plays gin rummy at a club at lunch? 353 00:18:54,209 --> 00:18:57,000 He had an edge about him. 354 00:18:57,083 --> 00:19:01,542 A deputy called me that they'd found the bodies of three ladies that were missing, 355 00:19:01,626 --> 00:19:05,834 and they'd pick me up, and take me out to the St. Louis Canyon. 356 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,667 State police were already there, 357 00:19:09,751 --> 00:19:11,959 and gathering up the evidence and everything. 358 00:19:12,042 --> 00:19:13,834 Bill: They came in with like flame throwers, 359 00:19:13,918 --> 00:19:16,209 and they started melting the snow... 360 00:19:16,292 --> 00:19:18,918 and they were gathering little bits and pieces of evidence. 361 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,626 And when I was standin' there, I stepped on something hard. 362 00:19:22,709 --> 00:19:26,792 So, I leaned down, brushed some snow away, 363 00:19:26,876 --> 00:19:28,959 and here was a tree branch. 364 00:19:29,042 --> 00:19:32,292 I produced the club as a possible murder weapon, 365 00:19:32,375 --> 00:19:36,375 and the autopsies found bits of wood taken from the faces 366 00:19:36,459 --> 00:19:37,709 of the three ladies. 367 00:19:37,792 --> 00:19:39,876 Reporter 1: They did recover the murder weapon, 368 00:19:39,959 --> 00:19:42,417 a tree limb that was used to savagely beat the women. 369 00:19:42,500 --> 00:19:47,626 Harland: And there was also broken binoculars and the, uh, camera. 370 00:19:47,709 --> 00:19:49,918 Bill: The murderer had attacked them with that camera. 371 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:51,375 That was, uh, another murder weapon. 372 00:19:51,459 --> 00:19:53,292 They didn't seem to leave much doubt about that. 373 00:19:53,375 --> 00:19:54,542 Reporter 1: Then there was the twine used 374 00:19:54,626 --> 00:19:56,542 by the killer to tie up his victims. 375 00:19:56,626 --> 00:19:58,250 Steve: Tied up, disrobed, 376 00:19:58,334 --> 00:20:01,417 like it was a rape. A rapist did this crime. 377 00:20:01,500 --> 00:20:04,500 Reporter 2: You will be looking for a sex criminal of some type, 378 00:20:04,584 --> 00:20:07,042 - I would imagine? -That's right, I think he would have to be. 379 00:20:07,125 --> 00:20:09,167 John Drummond: Authorities also found several pictures had been taken 380 00:20:09,250 --> 00:20:12,417 by the victims apparently minutes before the murder. 381 00:20:12,500 --> 00:20:14,709 One photo gave an initial impression of a stranger 382 00:20:14,792 --> 00:20:18,000 lurking in the background, perhaps the killer. 383 00:20:18,083 --> 00:20:21,334 Ray Eutsey: We found what we think is a, is a picture of a man, 384 00:20:21,417 --> 00:20:22,918 possibly the assailant, 385 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,667 and, uh, we think we have valuable evidence. 386 00:20:26,751 --> 00:20:29,459 John: There was still plenty of police work to be done. 387 00:20:29,542 --> 00:20:34,250 From LaSalle County, John Drummond, CBS2 News. 388 00:20:42,542 --> 00:20:44,083 My name is John Drummond. 389 00:20:44,167 --> 00:20:46,250 That's spelling D like in David, R as in Robert, 390 00:20:46,334 --> 00:20:48,626 U-M-M-O-N-D. 391 00:20:48,709 --> 00:20:50,709 I'm a former reporter at Channel 2 392 00:20:50,792 --> 00:20:53,459 in Chicago, Illinois, WBBM television. 393 00:20:53,542 --> 00:20:55,834 Well, there are those who call me "Bulldog." 394 00:20:55,918 --> 00:20:58,250 I had bulldog perseverance, and so on. 395 00:20:58,334 --> 00:21:01,209 That's how I got the name. 396 00:21:01,292 --> 00:21:03,959 In March of 1960, there was a major, major story. 397 00:21:04,042 --> 00:21:08,334 One of the so-called crimes of the century. 398 00:21:08,417 --> 00:21:10,000 Murders didn't happen down there, 399 00:21:10,083 --> 00:21:12,667 and the three women that were slain from suburban Chicago 400 00:21:12,751 --> 00:21:15,959 were all prominent, and they were inundated by media. 401 00:21:16,042 --> 00:21:19,209 Life magazine sent a crew down there to cover that story. 402 00:21:19,292 --> 00:21:21,209 The Chicago Tribune stayed at the lodge 403 00:21:21,292 --> 00:21:24,500 trying to get updates every day on what was going on. 404 00:21:24,584 --> 00:21:26,375 Who was the killer or killers, whoever it was? 405 00:21:26,459 --> 00:21:29,584 Why were they slain? Were they assaulted sexually? Were they robbed? 406 00:21:29,667 --> 00:21:31,876 These were the questions that people are asking about. 407 00:21:31,959 --> 00:21:33,667 Reporter 1: At the main lodge, we talked to 408 00:21:33,751 --> 00:21:35,250 LaSalle County Sheriff Ray Eutsey. 409 00:21:35,334 --> 00:21:38,584 Do you think this could've been done, Sheriff, by one man? 410 00:21:38,667 --> 00:21:41,125 I suppose one man could have done it. 411 00:21:41,209 --> 00:21:43,125 Reporter 1: Do you think there could be more than one man 412 00:21:43,209 --> 00:21:44,542 involved in this crime? 413 00:21:44,626 --> 00:21:46,083 That's a, that's a possibility. 414 00:21:46,167 --> 00:21:49,125 David: I really wanted to know who they were thinking of. 415 00:21:49,209 --> 00:21:51,459 Why, what was the motive, 416 00:21:51,542 --> 00:21:53,417 everything I could pull together, 417 00:21:53,500 --> 00:21:55,417 starting with the investigation. 418 00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:57,292 Harland: The three, uh, ladies 419 00:21:57,375 --> 00:21:59,042 had been down by the waterfall, 420 00:21:59,125 --> 00:22:02,667 and we had the photograph of Mrs. Oetting and Mrs. Murphy 421 00:22:02,751 --> 00:22:04,667 standing in the snow. 422 00:22:04,751 --> 00:22:07,500 We figured out that it was the Billy Goat Trail. 423 00:22:07,584 --> 00:22:10,959 So, at least we knew which trail they took 424 00:22:11,042 --> 00:22:13,500 to go down to St. Louis Canyon. 425 00:22:13,584 --> 00:22:17,167 Well, the Billy Goat Trail came from the lodge. 426 00:22:17,250 --> 00:22:21,250 Steve: The police believed the killer might have saw the women 427 00:22:21,334 --> 00:22:24,751 leave the lodge, and took a hike into the woods 428 00:22:24,834 --> 00:22:27,083 right on their path. 429 00:22:27,167 --> 00:22:30,167 Anthony: The rumor mill was heavy from day one 430 00:22:30,250 --> 00:22:33,417 about lodge employees being questioned. 431 00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:38,792 There were people that thought that maybe it was the Spiros family that was involved. 432 00:22:38,876 --> 00:22:43,000 David: You know, Nick Spiros was the Starved Rock Lodge owner. 433 00:22:43,083 --> 00:22:46,250 He was concerned that it was going to affect his business. 434 00:22:46,334 --> 00:22:47,834 John: And people said, "I'm not goin' down there 435 00:22:47,918 --> 00:22:51,250 to Starved Rock anymore. No, no way, no way." 436 00:22:51,334 --> 00:22:54,167 Bill: The husbands put up a reward of $30,000, 437 00:22:54,250 --> 00:22:57,584 and then, Nick Spiros at the lodge added five grand. 438 00:22:57,667 --> 00:22:59,542 David: He was trying to turn some of this into a bit 439 00:22:59,626 --> 00:23:01,959 of marketing, rewards. 440 00:23:02,042 --> 00:23:04,209 "I'll take the first polygraph." 441 00:23:04,292 --> 00:23:07,667 Bill: The state police sent a couple of lie detector operators 442 00:23:07,751 --> 00:23:11,125 to run all the lodge employees through lie detector tests. 443 00:23:11,209 --> 00:23:15,292 David: So, George Spiros was the son of Nick Spiros. 444 00:23:15,375 --> 00:23:17,125 He was someone who was suspect. 445 00:23:17,209 --> 00:23:19,584 He was given a polygraph test. 446 00:23:19,667 --> 00:23:21,709 He, basically, said he had an alibi, 447 00:23:21,792 --> 00:23:25,500 but he did say that he saw employees of the lodge 448 00:23:25,584 --> 00:23:26,751 with the women. 449 00:23:26,834 --> 00:23:29,334 They looked at the male employees, 450 00:23:29,417 --> 00:23:31,083 people that had criminal records, 451 00:23:31,167 --> 00:23:33,000 anyone who looked suspicious. 452 00:23:33,083 --> 00:23:36,459 Steve: Chester Weger and a friend of his, Stanley Tucker, 453 00:23:36,542 --> 00:23:39,292 who worked in the kitchen, so, of course, they were suspects, 454 00:23:39,375 --> 00:23:42,959 like almost everybody at the lodge was a suspect at the time. 455 00:23:43,042 --> 00:23:46,417 Almost everybody in Illi... Illinois Valley was a suspect. 456 00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:49,334 David: People were interested in that reward. 457 00:23:49,417 --> 00:23:51,876 Letters were pouring in, 458 00:23:51,959 --> 00:23:54,292 they were following up on everything. 459 00:23:54,375 --> 00:23:56,459 Harland: The state police figured it was the Mafia, 460 00:23:56,542 --> 00:23:59,167 but the Mafia didn't have a damn thing to do with that. 461 00:23:59,250 --> 00:24:00,125 (chuckles) 462 00:24:00,209 --> 00:24:01,918 David: There was an asylum escapee. 463 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,626 That's where the madman that was on the loose came out. 464 00:24:04,709 --> 00:24:07,500 You know, all of these leads ended up nowhere. 465 00:24:07,584 --> 00:24:09,292 Bill: When I looked at that scene, I had no doubt 466 00:24:09,375 --> 00:24:10,417 it was a sex crime. 467 00:24:10,500 --> 00:24:11,792 Thing is, when they examined the bodies, 468 00:24:11,876 --> 00:24:13,626 they didn't find any sperm. 469 00:24:13,709 --> 00:24:16,083 That was a puzzle. They couldn't figure it out what the hell was taking place there. 470 00:24:16,167 --> 00:24:17,459 They couldn't figure it out. 471 00:24:17,542 --> 00:24:19,834 Spring came and went, summer started, 472 00:24:19,918 --> 00:24:22,959 and the investigation seemed to just bog down. 473 00:24:23,042 --> 00:24:25,042 Reporter 1: The authorities had few clues to go on. 474 00:24:25,125 --> 00:24:27,709 Person: They could see some man in the background, 475 00:24:27,792 --> 00:24:29,834 but never turned out that way. 476 00:24:29,918 --> 00:24:32,125 Reporter 1: Apparently, Mrs. Oetting had failed to wind 477 00:24:32,209 --> 00:24:33,542 the camera completely, 478 00:24:33,626 --> 00:24:35,417 resulting in a double exposure. 479 00:24:35,500 --> 00:24:37,918 The photos were of no help in finding the killer. 480 00:24:40,959 --> 00:24:43,334 Steve: For eight months the crime went unsolved. 481 00:24:43,417 --> 00:24:45,667 People were so scared. 482 00:24:45,751 --> 00:24:48,751 People wouldn't go to the park, the lodge. 483 00:24:48,834 --> 00:24:50,667 They pulled their kids in at night. 484 00:24:50,751 --> 00:24:53,918 Everybody was scared to death. 485 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,000 Who could've killed these three women? 486 00:24:58,751 --> 00:25:00,542 -David: Are you rolling yet? -Crew Member: Yeah. 487 00:25:00,626 --> 00:25:03,417 You know what, what I opened my book to? 488 00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:05,792 Habeas corpus. Ya ever hear of habeas corpus? 489 00:25:05,876 --> 00:25:08,375 David: I have. What is, what is, actually, habeas corpus? 490 00:25:08,459 --> 00:25:12,250 Harland: It means, whatever you're looking for, you found it. 491 00:25:12,334 --> 00:25:14,083 David: Just look in the book a little bit 492 00:25:14,167 --> 00:25:15,542 like you're reading, Harland, 493 00:25:15,626 --> 00:25:17,459 for a few... just for a couple minutes here. 494 00:25:17,542 --> 00:25:18,959 Sure. 495 00:25:19,042 --> 00:25:22,709 Harland: Time went on, but we didn't have a suspect. 496 00:25:22,792 --> 00:25:24,709 And The Chicago Tribune 497 00:25:24,792 --> 00:25:27,584 blamed me for bungling the evidence. 498 00:25:27,667 --> 00:25:30,626 I thought, "Well, hell, as long as I'm the goat, 499 00:25:30,709 --> 00:25:33,709 "uh, maybe, I better look into this thing, 500 00:25:33,792 --> 00:25:36,125 see if I can find anything." 501 00:25:36,209 --> 00:25:38,542 So, I went to the sheriff, Eutsey, 502 00:25:38,626 --> 00:25:42,334 and I said, "I would like to have you assign Wayne Hess 503 00:25:42,417 --> 00:25:45,292 "and Bill Dummett to me exclusively. 504 00:25:45,375 --> 00:25:49,000 No publicity or anything, just let us go." 505 00:25:49,083 --> 00:25:53,709 Hess was a gentleman, a police farmer, a great guy. 506 00:25:53,792 --> 00:25:56,334 Dummett was a different type of person, 507 00:25:56,417 --> 00:25:59,417 but he was just a hard-nosed policeman, 508 00:25:59,500 --> 00:26:01,042 and that's 1960, 509 00:26:01,125 --> 00:26:03,959 and they were the classic good cop, bad cop. 510 00:26:04,042 --> 00:26:06,125 Made a good team, I thought. 511 00:26:19,292 --> 00:26:22,042 "...is the evidence gathered at the scene of the crime." 512 00:26:22,125 --> 00:26:27,751 I'd sit by the hour in my private office with all the evidence, 513 00:26:27,834 --> 00:26:31,959 and I thought, "Well, what is there here that's a solution?" 514 00:26:32,042 --> 00:26:33,834 So, kind of, absentmindedly 515 00:26:33,918 --> 00:26:36,083 I picked up some of the knotted cord 516 00:26:36,167 --> 00:26:40,375 that was removed from the wrists of the three ladies... 517 00:26:40,459 --> 00:26:44,000 and I started counting the number of strands, 518 00:26:44,083 --> 00:26:47,417 and it came out to 32. 519 00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:50,375 I called Mr. Spiros, and I said, 520 00:26:50,459 --> 00:26:53,417 "Maybe this string came from the lodge." 521 00:26:53,500 --> 00:26:58,751 So, I went to the lodge at night when there'd be no one around. 522 00:26:58,834 --> 00:27:01,626 Finally, I got out to the kitchen, 523 00:27:01,709 --> 00:27:06,667 and here was a butcher block with a cone of cord. 524 00:27:06,751 --> 00:27:12,042 And here on a coat hanger was a ball of cord. 525 00:27:12,125 --> 00:27:13,959 I snipped off a piece, 526 00:27:14,042 --> 00:27:18,375 went back to my office in the middle of the night, 527 00:27:18,459 --> 00:27:20,459 and I start counting. 528 00:27:20,542 --> 00:27:26,417 The cone of cord is 20, and the ball of cord is 12. 529 00:27:26,500 --> 00:27:29,792 Well, and I start loosening the knot. 530 00:27:29,876 --> 00:27:32,792 It turns out there were two strings. 531 00:27:32,876 --> 00:27:36,500 What's 12 plus 20? 32. 532 00:27:38,042 --> 00:27:40,334 So, I got in touch with John Reid, 533 00:27:40,417 --> 00:27:43,209 polygraph people, internationally known. 534 00:27:43,292 --> 00:27:46,792 And they sent down Steve Kindig, one of his operators. 535 00:27:46,876 --> 00:27:52,292 Steve set up his polygraph in the two-room cabin, 536 00:27:52,375 --> 00:27:56,417 and Dummett and Hess started bringing in the employees. 537 00:28:00,167 --> 00:28:02,250 One of the individuals brought in 538 00:28:02,334 --> 00:28:05,250 identified himself as Chester Weger. 539 00:28:05,334 --> 00:28:08,125 Chester Weger's a dish washer in the kitchen. 540 00:28:08,209 --> 00:28:11,542 "Chester, do you carry string like this?" "Well, yes, I do." 541 00:28:11,626 --> 00:28:13,584 "I'd make little cats in the cradle, 542 00:28:13,667 --> 00:28:16,542 set snares and traps for animals in the park." 543 00:28:16,626 --> 00:28:20,876 Harland: Usually, Steve only spent about 15 minutes with people. 544 00:28:20,959 --> 00:28:22,209 Half an hour went by, 545 00:28:22,292 --> 00:28:24,167 three quarters of an hour went by. 546 00:28:24,250 --> 00:28:27,709 In about an hour, Steve came out. 547 00:28:27,792 --> 00:28:31,125 His face white as a bedsheet. 548 00:28:31,209 --> 00:28:33,751 He says, "He's the one." 549 00:28:33,834 --> 00:28:37,125 He says, "I'm 100% sure." 550 00:28:40,292 --> 00:28:42,709 Now we had our suspect. 551 00:28:45,042 --> 00:28:46,792 David: So, here it is right here. 552 00:28:46,876 --> 00:28:51,334 This is where Chester Weger's family home was. 553 00:28:51,417 --> 00:28:55,083 They were big coon hunters. 554 00:28:55,167 --> 00:28:59,042 I'm sure this is coon hunting heaven right here. 555 00:28:59,125 --> 00:29:02,751 You do realize we may get... Somebody'll call the police. 556 00:29:02,834 --> 00:29:05,083 -Crew Member: Yeah. -And I'm not kidding you. 557 00:29:05,167 --> 00:29:06,417 -Crew Member: Yeah. -I know that... 558 00:29:06,500 --> 00:29:08,918 So, in the making of this film, my whole goal, 559 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,709 I, I, I don't know if this is cathartic or what the reason is, 560 00:29:12,792 --> 00:29:15,375 I just wanted to talk to Chester Weger in person. 561 00:29:15,459 --> 00:29:19,209 I needed to sit across from him and talk to him. 562 00:29:19,292 --> 00:29:21,000 That was very important to me. 563 00:29:21,083 --> 00:29:22,751 I wanted to figure out 564 00:29:22,834 --> 00:29:25,209 Chester Weger as a man, what is he like 565 00:29:25,292 --> 00:29:28,834 because he scared the shit out of me most of my life. 566 00:29:28,918 --> 00:29:31,000 So, I wrote Chester a letter. 567 00:29:31,083 --> 00:29:32,834 He never responded. 568 00:29:32,918 --> 00:29:35,876 I wrote him a second letter, he never responded. 569 00:29:35,959 --> 00:29:40,000 Of course, having the last name Raccuglia didn't help, 570 00:29:40,083 --> 00:29:43,459 so I started collecting and gathering all these stories 571 00:29:43,542 --> 00:29:45,375 about him as a person. 572 00:29:45,459 --> 00:29:48,000 You know, there's a lot of stories, believe me. 573 00:29:48,083 --> 00:29:52,083 My aunt Theresa, my father's sister, 574 00:29:52,167 --> 00:29:53,709 went to school with Chester. 575 00:29:53,792 --> 00:29:57,375 She had a lot to say about Chester Weger. 576 00:29:57,459 --> 00:29:59,000 Person: That's right. Okay. 577 00:29:59,083 --> 00:30:03,083 We're all here tonight to work on our class reunion. 578 00:30:03,167 --> 00:30:09,042 Chester Weger was a member of our class for two years. 579 00:30:09,125 --> 00:30:11,417 Theresa Raccuglia Ellerbrock: He never really talked much. 580 00:30:11,500 --> 00:30:13,959 What I remember of him is the fact 581 00:30:14,042 --> 00:30:15,959 that we would walk out the front door of LP, 582 00:30:16,042 --> 00:30:17,751 and he'd be in the tree eating his lunch, 583 00:30:17,834 --> 00:30:19,167 and he, he'd make sounds at us. 584 00:30:19,250 --> 00:30:23,042 We'd hear this "whoooo" sound coming from a tree. 585 00:30:23,125 --> 00:30:25,667 Well, it was him, he was up in the tree eating his lunch. 586 00:30:25,751 --> 00:30:29,000 He was creepy, reclusive, loner. 587 00:30:29,083 --> 00:30:31,834 He had trouble with his wife when he was married with two kids. 588 00:30:31,918 --> 00:30:35,500 -Oh my god. -I didn't even know he had kids. -There were a lot of stories... 589 00:30:35,584 --> 00:30:38,959 There were a lot of stories that came out that way that I, 590 00:30:39,042 --> 00:30:42,751 that I was told that I'm not going to repeat at this point, 591 00:30:42,834 --> 00:30:44,959 but, um, yeah. 592 00:30:45,042 --> 00:30:50,375 So, I, uh, you know, whatever ya think, ya think. 593 00:30:54,334 --> 00:30:56,375 We, we heard that, we believed it. 594 00:30:56,459 --> 00:31:00,459 So, it may be that, uh, Chester had a problem of some kind. 595 00:31:00,542 --> 00:31:03,250 There was always rumors to that effect. 596 00:31:03,334 --> 00:31:06,375 David: I've heard Chester had a criminal past, 597 00:31:06,459 --> 00:31:08,709 the rape, when he was 12 years old. 598 00:31:08,792 --> 00:31:11,542 -Juvenile. Juvenile records. -Juvenile records. 599 00:31:11,626 --> 00:31:15,209 I think that's another, uh, nail in his coffin, so to speak, 600 00:31:15,292 --> 00:31:18,500 that proves to you that he was entirely capable. 601 00:31:18,584 --> 00:31:21,459 I have no doubts in my mind, you know, that Chester 602 00:31:21,542 --> 00:31:23,459 assaulted the victims who were killed here. 603 00:31:23,542 --> 00:31:27,083 They didn't find any sperm, but, maybe, he was shooting blanks or something. 604 00:31:27,167 --> 00:31:28,834 I don't know the answer. 605 00:31:28,918 --> 00:31:32,334 Anthony: I think he had a propensity to do these kinds of things, 606 00:31:32,417 --> 00:31:38,667 and this, of course, was the major reason why this case was finally solved. 607 00:31:38,751 --> 00:31:43,626 David: In 1959, seven months before the actual murders, 608 00:31:43,709 --> 00:31:46,918 there was another rape that happened in Matthiessen Park, 609 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,918 which is a park right next to Starved Rock, 610 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,125 very close to the Weger home as well. 611 00:31:53,209 --> 00:31:56,375 Nothing came of it for months. 612 00:31:56,459 --> 00:31:58,250 Anthony: There was a letter that we saw that came 613 00:31:58,334 --> 00:32:02,000 from a teacher by the name of Sue Ocepeck. 614 00:32:02,083 --> 00:32:04,417 She, actually, in my opinion, 615 00:32:04,500 --> 00:32:07,834 is the unsung hero of this whole thing. 616 00:32:13,459 --> 00:32:15,334 From September 'til March. 617 00:32:15,417 --> 00:32:18,000 Sue Ocepeck: 45 years ago, 618 00:32:18,083 --> 00:32:20,000 a student of mine 619 00:32:20,083 --> 00:32:22,125 in my first year of teaching, 620 00:32:22,209 --> 00:32:23,626 um, told me 621 00:32:23,709 --> 00:32:27,626 about having been raped in Matthiessen State Park. 622 00:32:29,667 --> 00:32:31,959 She was a teenager. 623 00:32:32,042 --> 00:32:36,667 Her and her boyfriend, they were on this path, 624 00:32:36,751 --> 00:32:44,500 and this guy came out, he had a rifle. 625 00:32:44,584 --> 00:32:49,792 He told her to tie her boyfriend's hands. 626 00:32:49,876 --> 00:32:53,417 And she figured when he got the wallet, you know, then, 627 00:32:53,500 --> 00:32:55,417 then he'd let 'em go. 628 00:32:55,500 --> 00:32:57,751 But he didn't. 629 00:32:57,834 --> 00:33:03,667 And she said she'll never forget his face as long as she lives. 630 00:33:03,751 --> 00:33:07,167 All the time that he was raping her, 631 00:33:07,250 --> 00:33:10,167 he rolled a bullet in his mouth. 632 00:33:16,292 --> 00:33:21,834 Deputy sheriffs who had talked to them did not believe their story, 633 00:33:21,918 --> 00:33:25,042 and I couldn't understand, why wouldn't they believe the story, you know? 634 00:33:25,125 --> 00:33:28,834 I later found out that those officers 635 00:33:28,918 --> 00:33:31,500 were Dummett and Hess. 636 00:33:31,584 --> 00:33:36,083 The next thing that happens, one of those moments that you remember forever, 637 00:33:36,167 --> 00:33:40,459 I was standing there ironing, and I had the radio on. 638 00:33:40,542 --> 00:33:42,792 Reporter 1: Early in the afternoon, about 1 PM, 639 00:33:42,876 --> 00:33:45,375 they got a tip that three Chicago women had been found dead. 640 00:33:45,459 --> 00:33:47,209 Reporter 2: Their bodies were found this morning in a cave 641 00:33:47,292 --> 00:33:48,876 in Starved Rock State Park. 642 00:33:48,959 --> 00:33:51,542 At least two of the women apparently had been raped. 643 00:33:51,626 --> 00:33:54,542 I was just covered with chills, and, and I, actually, just felt 644 00:33:54,626 --> 00:33:58,334 like a bolt down my back. 645 00:33:58,417 --> 00:34:03,000 Now he did it, you know, this... Maybe it's the same person. 646 00:34:04,792 --> 00:34:08,125 We both just hugged each other and cried 647 00:34:08,209 --> 00:34:11,792 'cause we just kinda knew, she thought so right away, too. 648 00:34:11,876 --> 00:34:15,459 She told me that the rapist 649 00:34:15,542 --> 00:34:20,250 had used twine to wrap their wrists. 650 00:34:20,334 --> 00:34:22,292 I said, "I just have to write a letter. 651 00:34:22,375 --> 00:34:25,709 "I have to tell them it might have been the same person 652 00:34:25,792 --> 00:34:29,500 who then was still free to commit murder." 653 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,667 Dummett: Well, then after this, 654 00:34:32,751 --> 00:34:34,584 I took a whole bunch of photos. 655 00:34:34,667 --> 00:34:36,584 I went to this gal's house, 656 00:34:36,667 --> 00:34:38,500 and, all of a sudden, she said 657 00:34:38,584 --> 00:34:40,375 that Chester raped her. 658 00:34:40,459 --> 00:34:43,918 She had busted out crying and yelling and screaming 659 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,792 and everything else. 660 00:34:45,876 --> 00:34:51,292 David: And so Dummett and Hess brought Chester to a lineup. 661 00:34:51,375 --> 00:34:52,667 And James Supan, 662 00:34:52,751 --> 00:34:55,918 who was the boyfriend of the rape victim, 663 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,542 also identified Chester 664 00:34:57,626 --> 00:35:02,751 as the person who raped and robbed that day in the park. 665 00:35:02,834 --> 00:35:06,375 So, Chester was brought back into the interrogation room, 666 00:35:06,459 --> 00:35:09,209 and confronted with three crimes. 667 00:35:09,292 --> 00:35:11,876 They said, "Now we have you on these two, 668 00:35:11,959 --> 00:35:15,584 you might as well admit to the Starved Rock murders." 669 00:35:15,667 --> 00:35:18,792 Steve: He was faced with jail time for the rape, robbery. 670 00:35:18,876 --> 00:35:22,125 He knew he was going to jail. 671 00:35:22,209 --> 00:35:23,792 He was caught. 672 00:35:31,459 --> 00:35:35,542 Steve: And when his mom said, "Son, tell the truth," 673 00:35:35,626 --> 00:35:37,876 she walked out of the room and that's when he did it. 674 00:35:37,959 --> 00:35:39,542 (David speaking) 675 00:35:39,626 --> 00:35:41,125 Sounds like an old Cagney movie, 676 00:35:41,209 --> 00:35:43,375 but that doesn't disprove it didn't happen. 677 00:35:43,459 --> 00:35:45,209 Harland: Around midnight, 678 00:35:45,292 --> 00:35:49,459 finally, Chester broke down and confessed. 679 00:35:49,542 --> 00:35:52,959 Reporter 1: 23-year-old dish washer Chester Otto Weger 680 00:35:53,042 --> 00:35:57,167 has confessed that he killed three prominent Riverside women 681 00:35:57,250 --> 00:35:59,334 last March in Starved Rock State Park, 682 00:35:59,417 --> 00:36:02,334 one of the most brutal crimes solved suddenly 683 00:36:02,417 --> 00:36:04,918 after eight long months of investigation. 684 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,167 The confessed killer claims that his mind was on robbery, 685 00:36:08,250 --> 00:36:10,792 not murder last March. 686 00:36:13,876 --> 00:36:16,959 -Bill: Chester Weger. -Director: Go ahead, Bill. 687 00:36:17,042 --> 00:36:19,417 Chester Weger, well, he got an itch 688 00:36:19,500 --> 00:36:22,250 Killed three women with a white oak switch 689 00:36:22,334 --> 00:36:25,125 Yes, Chester Weger, hound of hell 690 00:36:25,209 --> 00:36:27,125 Played it cool, he did not tell 691 00:36:27,209 --> 00:36:29,417 Until his mother shed a tear 692 00:36:29,500 --> 00:36:31,167 Told him, tell the truth, my dear 693 00:36:31,250 --> 00:36:33,334 Then Chester bowed his head in pain 694 00:36:33,417 --> 00:36:36,500 Gulped and said, I done it, Wayne 695 00:36:40,918 --> 00:36:43,334 (laughs) Gonna start over. 696 00:36:43,417 --> 00:36:45,918 Forgot the lines. 697 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,876 (murmuring lines) 698 00:36:48,959 --> 00:36:52,167 Steve: Chester Weger wakes up in the morning 699 00:36:52,250 --> 00:36:53,876 after his confession, 700 00:36:53,959 --> 00:36:58,125 and they ask him if he would go down to the canyon for a reenactment. 701 00:36:58,209 --> 00:37:02,083 He was put on a metal leash, drug around this canyon, 702 00:37:02,167 --> 00:37:06,584 and he explained, to dozens of reporters, 703 00:37:06,667 --> 00:37:09,042 how he committed the Starved Rock murders. 704 00:37:09,125 --> 00:37:12,792 Reporter: Sheriff's deputies take the place of the women 705 00:37:12,876 --> 00:37:15,584 as Weger reenacts the crime. 706 00:37:15,667 --> 00:37:18,667 Steve: He saw the women come down this way. 707 00:37:18,751 --> 00:37:21,834 Reporter: He says he tried to grab the purse of one woman, 708 00:37:21,918 --> 00:37:23,292 and found it was a camera. 709 00:37:23,375 --> 00:37:25,792 The three women were cowed into letting him tie them up, 710 00:37:25,876 --> 00:37:28,626 to give him a chance to get away, which they did. 711 00:37:28,709 --> 00:37:30,918 So, when he turns to leave the canyon, 712 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,167 one of the women broke free from their bonds, ran out behind him, 713 00:37:34,250 --> 00:37:37,626 and started beating him in the back of the head with a pair of binoculars. 714 00:37:37,709 --> 00:37:39,334 Reporter: Mrs. Murphy came after him. 715 00:37:39,417 --> 00:37:41,918 He then picked up a broken limb of a tree and clubbed her. 716 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,751 Steve: He picks up a frozen tree log, 717 00:37:44,834 --> 00:37:48,334 he turns and he hits her, she goes down. 718 00:37:48,417 --> 00:37:51,667 He instantly realizes he has to go back, 719 00:37:51,751 --> 00:37:53,709 and do damage to the other two women 720 00:37:53,792 --> 00:37:57,250 to prevent identification, and that's just what he does. 721 00:37:57,334 --> 00:37:59,792 Reporter: So, he clubbed them to death, too. 722 00:37:59,876 --> 00:38:01,459 Steve: He rips up their clothes. 723 00:38:01,542 --> 00:38:04,125 He says he wanted to make it look like it was a rape, 724 00:38:04,209 --> 00:38:05,751 a rapist did this crime. 725 00:38:05,834 --> 00:38:10,334 He wanted money. That's all he wanted was money, green paper. 726 00:38:10,417 --> 00:38:13,500 It's all about green paper. That's what he wanted. 727 00:38:15,292 --> 00:38:17,626 Kathy: You know, I liked thinking that my grandmother 728 00:38:17,709 --> 00:38:21,083 was the feisty one, you know, who... 729 00:38:21,167 --> 00:38:24,417 You know, 'cause, again, the way we understood the story, 730 00:38:24,500 --> 00:38:26,500 you know, you should just lie there. 731 00:38:26,584 --> 00:38:29,542 Don't stand up and go, you know, if... 732 00:38:29,626 --> 00:38:34,042 I don't know. I liked thinking that she was this feisty lady 733 00:38:34,125 --> 00:38:36,250 who would stick up for her friends. 734 00:38:37,375 --> 00:38:40,042 (Reporter speaking) 735 00:38:40,125 --> 00:38:43,375 Oh, yes, he, uh, at times he, uh, 736 00:38:43,459 --> 00:38:44,584 showed a lot of sadness, 737 00:38:44,667 --> 00:38:47,459 shed a few tears from time to time. 738 00:38:47,542 --> 00:38:51,000 He signed every page of his confession. 739 00:38:51,083 --> 00:38:52,667 He didn't sign at the end. 740 00:38:52,751 --> 00:38:57,667 Every single page of this confession, 741 00:38:57,751 --> 00:39:01,959 and this is the real deal here, has his signature on it. 742 00:39:02,042 --> 00:39:03,709 David: After the reenactment, 743 00:39:03,792 --> 00:39:08,125 he confessed again to multiple people. 744 00:39:08,209 --> 00:39:11,751 Not once, not twice, not three times, nine times. 745 00:39:12,584 --> 00:39:14,417 But within 24 hours, 746 00:39:14,500 --> 00:39:17,334 he recanted the confession, he said he didn't do it. 747 00:39:17,417 --> 00:39:19,542 He said, "I'm gonna sign the confession, 748 00:39:19,626 --> 00:39:23,042 and I'm gonna prove my innocence in the courtroom." 749 00:39:25,542 --> 00:39:28,000 David: You've covered everything I need covered. 750 00:39:28,083 --> 00:39:29,834 My goal is to... 751 00:39:29,918 --> 00:39:31,667 I'm doing, I'm, I'm doing exactly... 752 00:39:31,751 --> 00:39:33,083 I'll be interested in your goal. 753 00:39:33,167 --> 00:39:35,375 I'm doing exactly what you're asking me to do... 754 00:39:35,459 --> 00:39:38,417 If you weren't the son of Mr. Raccuglia, 755 00:39:38,500 --> 00:39:41,792 I would question your motives. 756 00:39:41,876 --> 00:39:43,959 -I know you know he's guilty. -Ask me. 757 00:39:44,042 --> 00:39:45,542 I know you know he's guilty. 758 00:39:45,626 --> 00:39:47,751 I know the old man knows he's guilty. 759 00:39:47,834 --> 00:39:52,125 What is your... point of view? 760 00:39:52,209 --> 00:39:55,584 Because I certainly wanted to know if you're the Free Chester... 761 00:39:55,667 --> 00:39:57,167 part of the Free Chester Weger movement, 762 00:39:57,250 --> 00:39:59,167 and that's what most documentaries do. 763 00:39:59,250 --> 00:40:02,292 They search out a injustice, try to correct this. 764 00:40:02,375 --> 00:40:05,584 There was not any injustice in this case 765 00:40:05,667 --> 00:40:09,959 until the LaSalle County Appellate Defender's Office reopened it, 766 00:40:10,042 --> 00:40:11,918 and that's the injustice. 767 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,250 Do I believe if he's innocent or if he's guilty, 768 00:40:15,334 --> 00:40:17,334 and also, as a filmmaker, I don't wanna answer. 769 00:40:17,417 --> 00:40:19,000 I just wanna keep pointin' the camera... 770 00:40:19,083 --> 00:40:21,584 Oh, right, I'm, I'm talking as a son. 771 00:40:23,959 --> 00:40:26,834 One second, let us get that underneath ya. 772 00:40:26,918 --> 00:40:28,042 -Okay. -All right. 773 00:40:28,125 --> 00:40:29,876 I remember going to my father, 774 00:40:29,959 --> 00:40:31,125 and telling him that 775 00:40:31,209 --> 00:40:32,667 I didn't wanna go to college. 776 00:40:32,751 --> 00:40:34,834 I wanted to be a hairdresser. 777 00:40:34,918 --> 00:40:37,125 That was a big pill for my father to swallow. 778 00:40:37,209 --> 00:40:40,167 My father really wanted me to be an attorney. 779 00:40:40,250 --> 00:40:42,167 He didn't want me to waste my intellect. 780 00:40:42,250 --> 00:40:44,834 My sister became a judge. 781 00:40:44,918 --> 00:40:47,876 I, personally, was a little bit of a hippy at heart. 782 00:40:47,959 --> 00:40:50,959 I wanted to be in a creative field, see the world. 783 00:40:51,042 --> 00:40:53,292 Ultimately, he came to me, and he said, 784 00:40:53,375 --> 00:40:57,584 "Look, you wanna be a hairstylist, you need to be the best." 785 00:40:57,667 --> 00:41:01,334 I moved to London, England, I opened salons. 786 00:41:01,417 --> 00:41:04,250 I did hair shows, I worked for product companies. 787 00:41:04,334 --> 00:41:07,876 You know, I had an incredibly great career that brought me all around the world. 788 00:41:07,959 --> 00:41:10,042 But then, Donna Kelly decided 789 00:41:10,125 --> 00:41:12,209 that she was going to reopen 790 00:41:12,292 --> 00:41:13,792 Chester Weger's case. 791 00:41:13,876 --> 00:41:15,542 It just hit me. 792 00:41:15,626 --> 00:41:19,667 I had to know why he signed that confession. 793 00:41:19,751 --> 00:41:22,292 This film became more than just, 794 00:41:22,375 --> 00:41:25,167 "Oh, I'm gonna make a film." It became an obsession to me. 795 00:41:25,250 --> 00:41:31,000 I give my father a lot of credit because he wasn't against it, 796 00:41:31,083 --> 00:41:33,500 but he thought it was a waste of time and money 797 00:41:33,584 --> 00:41:37,876 'cause my father believes in his guilt. 798 00:41:37,959 --> 00:41:42,417 Anthony: Frankly, arrests should've been made much earlier than that. 799 00:41:42,500 --> 00:41:46,167 I was surprised that Harland Warren waited until after the election. 800 00:41:46,250 --> 00:41:49,918 That would've really helped getting himself back in office 801 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:54,375 because the big issue in that campaign was the Starved Rock murder. 802 00:41:54,459 --> 00:41:59,459 Harland: My opponent ran ads that I was bungling the evidence. 803 00:41:59,542 --> 00:42:01,709 But then, if we'd brought him in, 804 00:42:01,792 --> 00:42:03,918 and got the confession before the election, 805 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,167 they'd say, "Oh, the state's attorney, in order to save his hide, 806 00:42:07,250 --> 00:42:09,500 forced a confession out of him." 807 00:42:09,584 --> 00:42:14,209 So, for that reason, we waited 'til after the, the election. 808 00:42:14,292 --> 00:42:16,667 Of course, I was soundly beaten. 809 00:42:16,751 --> 00:42:18,209 (chuckles) 810 00:42:18,292 --> 00:42:20,125 Steve: A case that he solved, 811 00:42:20,209 --> 00:42:21,709 he never got to try it in court, 812 00:42:21,792 --> 00:42:25,125 but he laid out a great plan for the next state's attorney, 813 00:42:25,209 --> 00:42:27,000 Robert Richardson, a good man. 814 00:42:27,083 --> 00:42:30,083 But he'd never handled a criminal case before, 815 00:42:30,167 --> 00:42:33,292 and Tony Raccuglia, his first assistant, 816 00:42:33,375 --> 00:42:35,125 fresh out of law school, 817 00:42:35,209 --> 00:42:38,667 so we had two guys in charge of prosecuting 818 00:42:38,751 --> 00:42:43,459 the most important criminal case of 1960 in America, 819 00:42:43,542 --> 00:42:46,584 never tried a criminal case. 820 00:42:46,667 --> 00:42:48,667 Imagine the pressure they felt. 821 00:42:55,542 --> 00:42:56,918 Yes, it is. 822 00:43:19,125 --> 00:43:21,292 David: The first time I walked into this courtroom 823 00:43:21,375 --> 00:43:23,626 when I was making this documentary, 824 00:43:23,709 --> 00:43:25,584 I had a stack of photos, 825 00:43:25,667 --> 00:43:29,125 and I was looking at this room, and I was looking at these little tables 826 00:43:29,209 --> 00:43:34,000 where my father tried the case, with no experience. 827 00:43:34,083 --> 00:43:35,792 And there were people everywhere. 828 00:43:35,876 --> 00:43:37,292 People couldn't wait to get in. 829 00:43:37,375 --> 00:43:40,125 It was like a Bruce Springsteen concert. 830 00:43:41,626 --> 00:43:45,083 Anthony: While it was a great deal of responsibility, 831 00:43:45,167 --> 00:43:48,834 I also, selfishly, looked at it as a way to prove 832 00:43:48,918 --> 00:43:53,626 that I was capable of doing trial work at 26 years of age. 833 00:43:53,709 --> 00:43:58,042 There were magazines and newspapers from all over the world. 834 00:43:58,125 --> 00:44:00,334 Bill: Chester's conduct during the trial, 835 00:44:00,417 --> 00:44:02,000 and during other public appearances 836 00:44:02,083 --> 00:44:05,751 really seemed quite strange. He seemed to be enjoying the notoriety. 837 00:44:05,834 --> 00:44:08,417 John: At that time, he was known as Rocky Weger, not Chester. 838 00:44:08,500 --> 00:44:10,918 Rocky Weger, ex-Marine they always billed him as. 839 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,334 I think he had the "Rocky" tattooed on his arm if I recall. 840 00:44:14,417 --> 00:44:15,959 He gave that impression with that swagger, 841 00:44:16,042 --> 00:44:18,042 that type of tough guy with the little duck tail. 842 00:44:18,125 --> 00:44:19,959 Oh yeah, he was not eating humble pie in those days, 843 00:44:20,042 --> 00:44:22,000 I don't think. No, no, no, no. 844 00:44:22,083 --> 00:44:23,167 Bill: They'd be leading him to the courtroom, 845 00:44:23,250 --> 00:44:25,334 and the guys would shout questions. 846 00:44:25,417 --> 00:44:27,751 "Rocky this" and "Rocky that," and he loved it. 847 00:44:27,834 --> 00:44:30,459 He, kind of, enjoyed being the center of attention. 848 00:44:30,542 --> 00:44:31,834 Anthony: He was the star. 849 00:44:31,918 --> 00:44:33,626 He was gonna be the person 850 00:44:33,709 --> 00:44:36,876 who would make or break the evidence in the case. 851 00:44:40,918 --> 00:44:43,626 David: In the trial, my father didn't really have 852 00:44:43,709 --> 00:44:46,167 a lot of huge evidence 853 00:44:46,250 --> 00:44:50,459 besides the scratches and the suede jacket. 854 00:44:52,292 --> 00:44:57,709 The suede jacket was a big part of the prosecution's case 855 00:44:57,792 --> 00:45:03,334 because of blood spatters that were found of human strain. 856 00:45:03,417 --> 00:45:06,125 It was spattered human blood 857 00:45:06,209 --> 00:45:10,209 by repeated blows in a bloody area, 858 00:45:10,292 --> 00:45:12,000 and I hit heavy on that. 859 00:45:12,083 --> 00:45:15,083 That was one of the keys to this case, and the scratches. 860 00:45:15,167 --> 00:45:19,417 We did bring in a number of kitchen employees from the lodge, 861 00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:24,125 and they all said that his face was pretty badly scratched. 862 00:45:24,209 --> 00:45:27,792 And then, of course, Stanley Tucker was a friend of Chester, 863 00:45:27,876 --> 00:45:29,626 colleague at the lodge. 864 00:45:29,709 --> 00:45:32,250 Stanley Tucker also said that Chester Weger 865 00:45:32,334 --> 00:45:36,209 had scratches on his face at the time of the murder. 866 00:45:36,292 --> 00:45:39,292 Anthony: That afternoon, the comments in the kitchen were, 867 00:45:39,375 --> 00:45:43,083 "Your face looks like you were in a fight with a cat," 868 00:45:43,167 --> 00:45:46,083 and his answers were that, "I cut myself shaving." 869 00:45:46,167 --> 00:45:48,125 There is absolutely no way 870 00:45:48,209 --> 00:45:52,709 that those types of scratches could've come from shaving. 871 00:45:52,792 --> 00:45:55,792 Anything you can tell us about how you're gonna conduct the trial? 872 00:45:55,876 --> 00:45:59,125 Well, as much as I can tell you at this time is 873 00:45:59,209 --> 00:46:01,792 that Chester will take the stand in his own defense. 874 00:46:01,876 --> 00:46:04,209 Anthony: Chester Weger was a very cocky, 875 00:46:04,292 --> 00:46:07,792 very assured man, who was of the impression 876 00:46:07,876 --> 00:46:10,000 that he was gonna beat this rap. 877 00:46:10,083 --> 00:46:12,876 I sat with Bob Richardson, and he said to me, 878 00:46:12,959 --> 00:46:16,500 "I don't wanna cross-examine him. I don't think I can. 879 00:46:16,584 --> 00:46:19,042 You're gonna have to cross-examine Weger." 880 00:46:21,209 --> 00:46:23,667 David: My father had never tried anything 881 00:46:23,751 --> 00:46:25,709 near the Starved Rock murders. 882 00:46:25,792 --> 00:46:27,626 He was 26 years old. 883 00:46:27,709 --> 00:46:30,417 But he was superhuman in a lot of ways. 884 00:46:30,500 --> 00:46:33,626 I can, I can only picture him in his 20s 885 00:46:33,709 --> 00:46:37,042 with something to prove. 886 00:46:37,125 --> 00:46:38,876 Anthony: In those days, 887 00:46:38,959 --> 00:46:42,167 you could put your nose right up to the witness. 888 00:46:42,250 --> 00:46:45,209 Sort of the rough and tumble trial days, and that's what I did. 889 00:46:45,292 --> 00:46:49,042 I got within nose to nose of him, and I said, 890 00:46:49,125 --> 00:46:51,709 "You killed three women." 891 00:46:51,792 --> 00:46:56,042 And that set the tone for my cross-examination. 892 00:46:57,918 --> 00:47:03,250 My goal was to make his answers so unreasonable, 893 00:47:03,334 --> 00:47:04,626 so ludicrous, 894 00:47:04,709 --> 00:47:07,167 that the jury would have to believe 895 00:47:07,250 --> 00:47:08,834 that what he was telling me 896 00:47:08,918 --> 00:47:11,834 in response to my questions were lies. 897 00:47:14,584 --> 00:47:16,334 I said to him, 898 00:47:16,417 --> 00:47:20,334 "Chester, if you really believe you're innocent, 899 00:47:20,417 --> 00:47:23,250 why did you confess?" 900 00:47:23,334 --> 00:47:26,500 He said that Dummett and Hess told him, 901 00:47:26,584 --> 00:47:29,083 if he didn't confess, 902 00:47:29,167 --> 00:47:32,417 they would do something harmful to his wife. 903 00:47:32,500 --> 00:47:35,542 And then, I reversed gears and said, 904 00:47:35,626 --> 00:47:37,167 "But your alibi is 905 00:47:37,250 --> 00:47:40,834 "that you were writing a love letter to another woman 906 00:47:40,918 --> 00:47:44,209 who you said you were in love with at the time." 907 00:47:44,292 --> 00:47:46,375 And he had no answer for that. 908 00:47:46,459 --> 00:47:48,292 I mean, he, he didn't have an alibi. 909 00:47:48,375 --> 00:47:51,626 The alibi that he presented was that he was alone, 910 00:47:51,709 --> 00:47:56,334 alone writing a letter, which can be verified by no one. 911 00:47:58,334 --> 00:48:01,918 Through questioning Weger, I wanted to show 912 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,500 that the confession was corroborated by other evidence. 913 00:48:05,584 --> 00:48:07,209 So, I would say to him, 914 00:48:07,292 --> 00:48:09,792 "How did you know about the red airplane?" 915 00:48:09,876 --> 00:48:11,250 (airplane flying over) 916 00:48:11,334 --> 00:48:14,792 Steve: The key to the whole confession is the airplane. 917 00:48:14,876 --> 00:48:18,209 After he had killed the three women, 918 00:48:18,292 --> 00:48:21,250 he moved the bodies up to a little overhang, a cave-like area. 919 00:48:21,334 --> 00:48:25,375 Uh, Hess and Dummett ask him a very important question, "Why'd you move the bodies?" 920 00:48:25,459 --> 00:48:28,459 -(airplane flying over) -He hears a sound. 921 00:48:28,542 --> 00:48:30,209 And he looks up, 922 00:48:30,292 --> 00:48:34,918 and he's seen a red and white airplane flying over. 923 00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,584 He thinks it might be one of the Illinois State Police planes, 924 00:48:38,667 --> 00:48:41,500 so he intentionally moves 'em into the cave here 925 00:48:41,584 --> 00:48:44,459 to prevent any aerial identification. 926 00:48:44,542 --> 00:48:49,083 So then, I said, "Well, I guess we better find that red and white plane," 927 00:48:49,167 --> 00:48:52,918 so go out to the Ottawa Airport. 928 00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,834 There was a red and white plane. 929 00:48:55,918 --> 00:48:57,959 Steve: They call the pilot. 930 00:48:58,042 --> 00:49:01,083 The pilot confirms he flew over Starved Rock State Park 931 00:49:01,167 --> 00:49:02,667 on March 14th. 932 00:49:02,751 --> 00:49:07,459 If Weger wasn't here, how did he know about the airplane? 933 00:49:08,959 --> 00:49:12,500 I don't see any way to explain that. 934 00:49:12,584 --> 00:49:17,459 In fact, there was a carving that they found in the cave... 935 00:49:17,542 --> 00:49:18,500 said, "Rocky." 936 00:49:18,584 --> 00:49:20,626 They called him Rocky. 937 00:49:22,500 --> 00:49:25,042 Anthony: We had the circumstantial evidence, 938 00:49:25,125 --> 00:49:26,918 we had the confessions, 939 00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:30,542 and we had truth on our side. 940 00:49:30,626 --> 00:49:32,542 Chester Weger was given a fair trial, 941 00:49:32,626 --> 00:49:36,375 and was convicted, not by Tony Raccuglia, not by Harland Warren, 942 00:49:36,459 --> 00:49:39,709 but a jury of 12 peers. 943 00:49:39,792 --> 00:49:42,083 We argued for the death penalty, 944 00:49:42,167 --> 00:49:44,083 and then, the jury came back with life. 945 00:49:44,167 --> 00:49:47,542 We couldn't tell the jury that if he got life, 946 00:49:47,626 --> 00:49:52,459 it wasn't life, that he could be out in 11 years with parole. 947 00:49:55,918 --> 00:49:58,125 (Reporter 1 speaking) 948 00:50:01,584 --> 00:50:03,000 Reporter 2: You don't call this lucky? 949 00:50:03,042 --> 00:50:04,125 No, sir, I don't. 950 00:50:04,209 --> 00:50:06,584 Reporter 2: Well, who framed you, Chester? 951 00:50:18,167 --> 00:50:20,876 Anthony: I'm always contacted by the parole board 952 00:50:20,959 --> 00:50:24,209 when Chester Weger applies for parole. 953 00:50:24,292 --> 00:50:26,959 What do I want to say? 954 00:50:27,042 --> 00:50:32,542 And, of course, I wanna say I never wanna see Chester Weger walk the streets. 955 00:50:34,459 --> 00:50:38,083 Kathy: You know, growing up, I think we felt some safety 956 00:50:38,167 --> 00:50:41,375 that he would be in prison for his whole life, 957 00:50:41,459 --> 00:50:44,709 and then we learned that there was gonna be a parole hearing, 958 00:50:44,792 --> 00:50:46,709 and it was outrageous. 959 00:50:46,792 --> 00:50:50,792 Just seemed unfathomable that they would let him out of prison. 960 00:50:50,876 --> 00:50:52,542 I mean, he murdered three women. 961 00:50:52,626 --> 00:50:55,959 How, how could he ever be let out of prison? 962 00:50:56,042 --> 00:50:57,792 He was given a life sentence. 963 00:50:57,876 --> 00:50:59,417 That's just not right. 964 00:51:00,876 --> 00:51:03,334 Rod: ...might be able to stay in the studio. 965 00:51:03,417 --> 00:51:06,292 I'm Rod Thorson, and live on WLPO 966 00:51:06,375 --> 00:51:07,918 is attorney Anthony Raccuglia. 967 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,500 Tony, now we know you've been a staunch advocate 968 00:51:10,584 --> 00:51:12,459 for keeping Chester Weger behind bars. 969 00:51:12,542 --> 00:51:15,292 Uh, he comes up almost every year now, doesn't he, for parole? 970 00:51:15,375 --> 00:51:17,918 Anthony (on phone): Yeah, this thing really disturbs me because 971 00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,751 the fact of the matter is, he's 74 years old. 972 00:51:20,834 --> 00:51:23,959 There's a lot of 74-year-old people that kill people. 973 00:51:24,042 --> 00:51:26,209 Right after the verdict came in... 974 00:51:29,125 --> 00:51:31,334 -Rod: Hmm. -Anthony: Now, I'm not interested in being 975 00:51:31,417 --> 00:51:35,292 a part of a revenge situation from Mr. Weger 976 00:51:35,375 --> 00:51:37,751 if he gets out of prison, me or my family. 977 00:51:37,834 --> 00:51:42,167 -Rod: Right. -Anthony: So, you know, the truth is, keep him there. 978 00:51:48,584 --> 00:51:51,250 David: Think it was three years into the making, 979 00:51:51,334 --> 00:51:54,500 I received a letter from Chester Weger 980 00:51:54,584 --> 00:51:57,626 saying he would allow me to interview him, 981 00:51:57,709 --> 00:51:59,792 and then, I would have to go through the process 982 00:51:59,876 --> 00:52:02,417 of filming in Menard Correctional Center. 983 00:52:02,500 --> 00:52:05,500 And, you know, Menard is not, uh, an easy... 984 00:52:05,584 --> 00:52:08,626 It's not like... You don't walk in, and... with cameras and a crew. 985 00:52:08,709 --> 00:52:10,959 There's a lot of criminals there 986 00:52:11,042 --> 00:52:13,792 that have committed mass murders. 987 00:52:13,876 --> 00:52:16,459 It's a very rough prison. 988 00:52:22,417 --> 00:52:24,918 This is everything I worked for. 989 00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:28,626 I really was ready for that interview. 990 00:52:28,709 --> 00:52:33,584 But when that date finally came, I was in panic. 991 00:52:33,667 --> 00:52:37,834 There's a guy pointing a rifle at me up in the tower, 992 00:52:37,918 --> 00:52:39,667 and I didn't sleep the night before, 993 00:52:39,751 --> 00:52:42,626 and the, the closer I got to the prison, 994 00:52:42,709 --> 00:52:45,542 the more panicky I started to get. 995 00:52:45,626 --> 00:52:47,876 I mean, I-I'll have to be very honest, 996 00:52:47,959 --> 00:52:49,876 I think it was, probably, 997 00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,292 one of the most fearful moments I've had. 998 00:52:53,375 --> 00:52:56,417 You know, it wasn't that I was scared he was gonna harm me. 999 00:52:56,500 --> 00:53:00,375 I kinda wanted him to like me, I guess. 1000 00:53:00,459 --> 00:53:02,500 I wanted him to trust me. 1001 00:53:07,792 --> 00:53:10,918 Chester was put in this little side room, 1002 00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:14,459 and one of my producers said, "He's ready." 1003 00:53:18,292 --> 00:53:23,375 I was going to film my boogieman, Chester Weger. 1004 00:53:25,751 --> 00:53:29,584 The one thing I remember is the look on Chester's face. 1005 00:53:35,334 --> 00:53:39,667 Chester, I'm glad you, finally, decided to talk to me. 1006 00:53:39,751 --> 00:53:43,792 How has, how has your life been the last 46 years? 1007 00:53:43,876 --> 00:53:48,876 How, how have you survived being in prison knowing that... 1008 00:53:48,959 --> 00:53:51,500 all that you know in regards to your... 1009 00:53:51,584 --> 00:53:54,000 Let me, let me say that one more time. I'm sorry, I said it terribly. 1010 00:53:54,083 --> 00:53:56,500 I couldn't talk at first. 1011 00:53:57,834 --> 00:53:59,751 I was stumbling with my words, 1012 00:53:59,834 --> 00:54:03,667 and I-I'm sure he could sense, you know, the nerves. 1013 00:54:03,751 --> 00:54:05,792 I, I was very, very nervous. 1014 00:54:05,876 --> 00:54:09,334 How has your life been being in prison? 1015 00:54:09,417 --> 00:54:12,542 I don't know, I, I come to the penitentiary, 1016 00:54:12,626 --> 00:54:14,959 and when you first come in the penitentiary, 1017 00:54:15,042 --> 00:54:18,542 it's, it's, it's kinda scary at first, 1018 00:54:18,626 --> 00:54:22,209 but I got, I've got used to it, you know? 1019 00:54:22,292 --> 00:54:26,500 I go through every day living one day to the next, 1020 00:54:26,584 --> 00:54:29,500 knowing I'm innocent, or... 1021 00:54:30,417 --> 00:54:32,167 trying to prove my innocence. 1022 00:54:32,250 --> 00:54:34,876 That's what I've always known, uh, 1023 00:54:34,959 --> 00:54:38,459 and I know that someday that people will realize this, 1024 00:54:38,542 --> 00:54:41,000 and I will be out of prison. 1025 00:54:42,584 --> 00:54:46,918 David: Why did you decide now is a good time to talk to us? 1026 00:55:04,459 --> 00:55:09,209 My mother died in 2000. I lost my father in '96. 1027 00:55:09,292 --> 00:55:13,083 My kids, you know, they, they had no father. 1028 00:55:13,167 --> 00:55:15,292 My wife died. 1029 00:55:17,334 --> 00:55:21,292 David: The confession is why you're in prison. 1030 00:55:21,375 --> 00:55:23,083 Why did you sign it? 1031 00:55:23,167 --> 00:55:26,167 (Chester speaking) 1032 00:56:04,959 --> 00:56:09,542 At least people will know what they've done to me. 1033 00:56:12,667 --> 00:56:15,667 If I have to die in prison... 1034 00:56:17,834 --> 00:56:20,959 people at least know what they've done. 1035 00:56:25,626 --> 00:56:29,542 I said they, they can't hurt me no more. 1036 00:56:29,626 --> 00:56:32,167 They done all they could do to me. 1037 00:56:32,250 --> 00:56:34,542 The only thing I can do now is die. 1038 00:56:34,626 --> 00:56:39,000 They took everything I had, everything I ever wanted. 1039 00:56:42,626 --> 00:56:45,584 David: I expected this man to be arrogant and mean, 1040 00:56:45,667 --> 00:56:50,918 and I really saw the humanity in him. 1041 00:56:52,083 --> 00:56:54,709 I never killed these people. 1042 00:56:56,209 --> 00:56:59,250 David: I was emotionally distraught for Chester Weger. 1043 00:56:59,334 --> 00:57:02,167 And the first thing I wanted to do was speak to my father. 1044 00:57:02,250 --> 00:57:04,751 I said, "Dad, come on." 1045 00:57:04,834 --> 00:57:08,709 Do you really believe that I would ask for the death penalty 1046 00:57:08,792 --> 00:57:10,459 if I didn't think they were guilty, 1047 00:57:10,542 --> 00:57:13,500 and didn't have the evidence to convince me they were guilty? 1048 00:57:13,584 --> 00:57:16,834 Well, I mean, I think you believe in your heart 1049 00:57:16,918 --> 00:57:18,042 that he was guilty, 1050 00:57:18,125 --> 00:57:19,542 I mean, I... People are wrong. 1051 00:57:19,626 --> 00:57:24,083 If there's information that might make this man innocent, 1052 00:57:24,167 --> 00:57:26,083 I wanted to expose it to the world. 1053 00:57:26,167 --> 00:57:28,083 Cameraperson: Perfect, Chester, right there. 1054 00:57:28,167 --> 00:57:32,751 David: This very tidy case that my father told me about, 1055 00:57:32,834 --> 00:57:35,042 a man confessed, he went to jail, 1056 00:57:35,125 --> 00:57:39,250 turned out to be a ten-year rollercoaster ride for me. 1057 00:57:44,250 --> 00:57:47,375 (pensive music playing) 87984

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