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(birds singing)
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David Raccuglia:
I always loved Starved Rock.
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My father used to take me
hiking on the trails.
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00:00:24,459 --> 00:00:28,542
It's called Starved Rock
from some sort of tribal war.
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One tribe surrounded the rock,
and the other tribe couldn't
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get down at the top
of the rock,
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00:00:35,459 --> 00:00:37,626
and they starved them to death.
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(Interviewer speaking)
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I think everything
in the Illinois Valley
is possibly a myth.
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So, you know, you never know.
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Narrator:
And now, we visit
Starved Rock State Park
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on the south bank
of the Illinois River
in the south county.
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Visitors who fled the city
seeking peace and quiet
and beauty and comfort
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00:01:04,209 --> 00:01:06,000
are richly rewarded
in this wonderland
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00:01:06,083 --> 00:01:09,000
of strange
and beautiful sights.
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(intense music playing)
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David:
LaSalle is a sleepy
little town.
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This town was completely
not prepared.
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Things like this
just didn't happen.
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People didn't lock their doors.
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They weren't afraid
of violence.
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Narrator:
This is truly
a winter wonderland.
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But that was before three women
were murdered violently.
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Reporter 1:
March 16th was the date.
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The three Chicago women
had been found dead
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in a state park
90 miles from Chicago.
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Reporter 2:
Police say the women
were beaten to death,
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and their bodies dragged
into the cave about a mile
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from the main lodge
of the state park.
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Do you think that this,
uh, person could still
be here in this area?
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He could possibly be.
We're checking out, uh,
that, uh, possibility.
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Reporter 3:
His men have no
leads on anybody
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in this brutal triple slaying.
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(exhales deeply)
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00:02:03,709 --> 00:02:06,167
In March of 1960,
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00:02:06,250 --> 00:02:08,667
I was only seven months old,
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but the Starved Rock murders...
was with me
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from the first day
I could form a memory.
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LaSalle County,
it's about a hundred miles
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00:02:21,959 --> 00:02:24,083
southwest of Chicago.
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00:02:24,167 --> 00:02:26,751
It's a very isolated
little community,
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so when the murders happened,
it was mayhem.
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All of a sudden, people were
putting double and triple locks
on their doors
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00:02:34,792 --> 00:02:38,334
out of their fear that
this madman was loose.
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00:02:39,250 --> 00:02:42,500
But as shocked as the town was,
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they were even more shocked
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when a local man
was charged with the crime.
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00:02:49,083 --> 00:02:51,584
Reporter 1:
Chester Weger was sentenced
to life in prison
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00:02:51,667 --> 00:02:55,417
after being convicted
of murder back in 1961.
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00:02:55,500 --> 00:02:59,125
As a kid, when I used to hear
the name Chester Weger,
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00:02:59,209 --> 00:03:02,167
fear used to come into my body
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00:03:02,250 --> 00:03:05,918
because my grandmother,
she had this massive scrapbook
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00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,626
filled with newspaper
clippings, magazine articles
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00:03:09,709 --> 00:03:13,834
from all over the world,
of Chester Weger.
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00:03:13,918 --> 00:03:16,375
He looked like
the movie actor James Dean.
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00:03:16,459 --> 00:03:18,250
He had incredibly cool hair,
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00:03:18,334 --> 00:03:22,292
the epitome
of bad boy '50s youth.
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00:03:24,959 --> 00:03:27,751
At the same time,
I used to lay in bed
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terrified that Chester Weger was
gonna climb through the window
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and kill me...
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because my father
was the prosecutor
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who put Chester Weger
in prison for life.
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00:03:45,751 --> 00:03:49,417
Chester Weger
became my boogieman.
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Reporter 1:
At the age of 43,
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00:03:51,167 --> 00:03:54,125
Weger has spent the bulk
of his adult life behind bars.
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Reporter 2:
Locked up 14 years before
the Sears Tower was built,
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Chester Weger, Illinois'
longest serving inmate.
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Reporter 3:
For 45 years, Weger
has insisted he's innocent.
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00:04:04,792 --> 00:04:07,459
Reporter 4:
Each year, Weger goes
before the parole board
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00:04:07,542 --> 00:04:08,918
hoping to be released.
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00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:10,751
Reporter 5:
He still insists that
he had nothing to do
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00:04:10,834 --> 00:04:13,375
with the murders
of the three women.
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David:
My grandmother,
she used to tell me,
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"If he ever gets out of jail,
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00:04:20,167 --> 00:04:21,918
he's gonna come
and kill us all."
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Reporter 1:
New at ten, Chester Weger...
the infamous Starved Rock...
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The Starved Rock killer
is about to be freed.
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Announcer:
Limited time only at the Igloo.
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It's OMG good.
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00:04:38,334 --> 00:04:39,959
Find it today at the Igloo.
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00:04:40,042 --> 00:04:42,834
Carryout available,
on Route Six, West Peru.
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00:04:42,918 --> 00:04:44,792
Announcer 2:
Rod and Jeremy
in the morning
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on Classic Hits 103.9,
WLPO, LaSalle.
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Rod (on radio):
It's 9:05, WLPO news is now,
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00:04:53,959 --> 00:04:56,375
and I wanna take
your calls and texts.
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00:04:56,459 --> 00:05:00,000
I'm thinking it through
on Chester Weger's, uh, case.
87
00:05:00,083 --> 00:05:02,876
Now, he is a convicted killer.
My opinion is that he did it.
88
00:05:02,959 --> 00:05:05,125
Uh, yours may be
different than mine.
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00:05:05,209 --> 00:05:08,209
That's okay, you're respected
around here for your opinion.
90
00:05:08,292 --> 00:05:10,834
WLPO and it's Phyllis, uh,
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00:05:10,918 --> 00:05:12,626
with the first comment
about this matter.
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00:05:12,709 --> 00:05:15,375
-Good morning, Phyllis.
-(Phyllis on phone):
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Caller 2:
I knew his sisters,
I knew Chester.
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I'm sorry, he is guilty.
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00:05:28,542 --> 00:05:30,876
Caller 3:
I think that he should
have a new trial.
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Uh, all these years it's always
been in question and that.
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- Yeah.
-Jeremy: Well...
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Rod:
Uh, pick up the phone
or turn the radio down, please.
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815-223-3093.
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00:05:41,626 --> 00:05:43,209
Steve Stout:
Sixty years later,
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00:05:43,292 --> 00:05:47,500
people are still scared
of going to Starved Rock.
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00:05:47,584 --> 00:05:49,709
When I started writing
my book in the '80s,
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00:05:49,792 --> 00:05:51,834
my friends from Chicago said,
"The reason we don't go
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00:05:51,918 --> 00:05:54,959
to Starved Rock is because
you once had a murder there."
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I said, "The reason
I don't go to Chicago,
'cause once you had a fire."
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Bad things happen
in good places,
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and that's what
happened that day.
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Reporter 1:
Three women, close friends
and neighbors in Riverside,
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had gone to the park Monday
for a winter vacation.
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Their bodies were found
this morning about a mile
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00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:11,834
from the main lodge
of the state park.
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00:06:11,918 --> 00:06:15,334
The victims were 50-year-old
Mrs. Lillian Oetting,
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00:06:15,417 --> 00:06:18,000
50-year-old
Mrs. Mildred Lindquist,
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00:06:18,083 --> 00:06:21,209
and 47-year-old
Mrs. Frances Murphy.
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00:06:21,292 --> 00:06:26,292
The three women left
a total of nine children.
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00:06:28,584 --> 00:06:32,209
Kathy Etz:
I don't think we talked
a lot about my grandmother
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00:06:32,292 --> 00:06:33,751
when I was a kid.
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00:06:33,834 --> 00:06:36,042
I think it was just
extraordinarily painful,
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so I just didn't bring it up.
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00:06:40,792 --> 00:06:44,292
I know from my aunts
and my mom, obviously,
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00:06:44,375 --> 00:06:47,334
what made my grandmother
really special,
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00:06:47,417 --> 00:06:48,918
but one of the real tragedies
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is people ask me,
"What was she like,"
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and I'm like, "I don't know
what she was like."
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I don't know what
made her special 'cause
I never got to meet her.
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I mean, the photo
that really kills me...
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00:07:06,959 --> 00:07:09,000
it's, actually, this one.
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Here's my mom
so excited to get married,
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and just thinking that
nine months later her...
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00:07:15,792 --> 00:07:17,459
she was gonna learn
this horrible thing,
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and her mom was gonna be gone.
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It... I don't know.
When I look at this photo...
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it really upsets me.
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My grandmother was going away
with two women,
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uh, spend a few days
at Starved Rock hiking.
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Steve:
They parked their car
at the lodge,
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checked into their rooms.
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00:07:50,125 --> 00:07:53,542
They left most of their
possessions in those rooms.
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They had lunch, decided
to take an afternoon walk.
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They left the lodge.
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00:08:00,626 --> 00:08:03,000
They spent some time
taking pictures of themselves
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in front of the ice fall
in St. Louis Canyon.
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And they never returned.
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00:08:11,626 --> 00:08:13,667
(phone ringing)
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00:08:13,751 --> 00:08:16,834
Kathy:
One of the husbands
called the inn to say that
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he hadn't heard from his wife
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00:08:18,125 --> 00:08:21,334
who was supposed
to have phoned him.
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00:08:21,417 --> 00:08:24,626
Steve:
That night there was
a tremendous snowstorm here
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that really shut things down.
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00:08:26,250 --> 00:08:27,709
(phone ringing)
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Wednesday, they called again,
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00:08:28,834 --> 00:08:31,542
and they said,
"This is not right.
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They would've called by now.
What's goin' on down there?"
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00:08:34,876 --> 00:08:37,584
So, they went into the rooms.
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00:08:37,667 --> 00:08:39,250
Kathy:
The beds had not been slept in,
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the luggage was intact,
undisturbed.
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00:08:43,167 --> 00:08:45,542
Steve:
They went out,
looked at their car,
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and it was covered with snow.
It hadn't moved.
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00:08:50,125 --> 00:08:52,209
They knew at that moment
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00:08:52,292 --> 00:08:56,292
they had three people missing
at Starved Rock State Park.
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00:09:06,250 --> 00:09:09,083
Rod: Phil on the WLPO
River City Ways text line says,
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00:09:09,167 --> 00:09:11,083
"Can you imagine
if he didn't do it?
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00:09:11,167 --> 00:09:12,459
"There's a miscarriage
of justice
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00:09:12,542 --> 00:09:14,083
that he spent
his whole life behind bars."
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00:09:14,167 --> 00:09:15,959
Jeremy:
But you have to believe
in the justice system,
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especially when people
of, of such high character
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00:09:19,042 --> 00:09:21,125
as the attorneys
who tried this case...
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00:09:21,209 --> 00:09:23,918
David:
This murder that
happened in 1960
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has left this town
completely divided.
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00:09:27,417 --> 00:09:31,959
It's like anything,
everybody has their opinion.
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00:09:32,042 --> 00:09:35,083
It took me a long time,
it took me years,
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00:09:35,167 --> 00:09:39,250
several years,
to find my footing with this.
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A man behind bars
in Illinois since 1960
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00:09:42,834 --> 00:09:45,375
is looking to the governor
for clemency tonight.
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00:09:45,459 --> 00:09:47,667
David:
In 2003, a good friend of mine
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sent me a newspaper clipping,
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and it said that there was
an appellate court defender
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00:09:55,209 --> 00:09:58,334
who was opening
Chester Weger's case,
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00:09:58,417 --> 00:10:00,125
trying to prove his innocence,
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00:10:00,209 --> 00:10:01,834
and that he was
wrongfully convicted.
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00:10:01,918 --> 00:10:03,334
Reporter 1:
His attorney, Donna Kelly,
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00:10:03,417 --> 00:10:05,334
argued that her client
should be pardoned.
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00:10:05,417 --> 00:10:10,000
For Chester "Rocky" Weger,
the pardon hearing may be
his last bid for freedom.
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00:10:10,083 --> 00:10:15,626
She was accusing my father
of, of making inaccurate claims
185
00:10:15,709 --> 00:10:18,125
about Chester Weger's case,
186
00:10:18,209 --> 00:10:21,834
and, you know, it was funny
because that really hit me,
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00:10:21,918 --> 00:10:24,167
and I realized that...
188
00:10:25,834 --> 00:10:27,834
I wonder if that was true.
189
00:10:29,250 --> 00:10:32,500
Growing up with this case,
my father was my hero,
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00:10:32,584 --> 00:10:36,542
so reading this news article
with all these accusations,
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00:10:36,626 --> 00:10:38,751
that made me very, very angry.
192
00:10:40,500 --> 00:10:43,918
My mother passed away
when I was nine years old.
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00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:49,292
My father raised
my sister and I with the help
of my grandmother.
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00:10:49,375 --> 00:10:53,000
I was treated very well
in LaSalle by a lot of people
195
00:10:53,083 --> 00:10:56,000
because Anthony Raccuglia,
my father,
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00:10:56,083 --> 00:10:59,292
put away
the Starved Rock murderer.
197
00:10:59,375 --> 00:11:03,751
And, at the same time, I was
treated sometimes very poorly
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00:11:03,834 --> 00:11:06,876
because many people
in this town believe
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00:11:06,959 --> 00:11:10,417
that my father put away
an innocent man.
200
00:11:10,500 --> 00:11:15,751
I had friends that couldn't
come over to my house,
201
00:11:15,834 --> 00:11:19,250
and I used to get in fights,
like physical fights,
202
00:11:19,334 --> 00:11:24,584
over defending my father
for handling this case.
203
00:11:24,667 --> 00:11:26,959
I remember running
home to my father,
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00:11:27,042 --> 00:11:28,334
and he hugged me and said,
205
00:11:28,417 --> 00:11:30,876
"I'm telling you, you have
nothing to worry about.
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00:11:30,959 --> 00:11:34,542
Chester Weger was guilty.
I put a guilty man in prison."
207
00:11:34,626 --> 00:11:36,751
And that made me feel good,
you know,
208
00:11:36,834 --> 00:11:40,959
knowing that my father was
on the right side of the law.
209
00:11:41,042 --> 00:11:45,459
But could it be possible that
Chester Weger was innocent?
210
00:11:45,542 --> 00:11:47,834
There was something
to get to the bottom of.
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00:11:47,918 --> 00:11:49,500
Crew Member:
All set. Sound speed.
212
00:11:49,584 --> 00:11:51,959
David:
That was the one
thing that sent me
213
00:11:52,042 --> 00:11:53,834
into forward motion
in making a film.
214
00:11:53,918 --> 00:11:57,292
I bet you love this, right?
I come to your office,
and disrupt your whole day?
215
00:11:57,375 --> 00:11:59,375
Well, it's the only time
I get to see you, though,
216
00:11:59,459 --> 00:12:01,584
is when you're...
want something, you know?
217
00:12:01,667 --> 00:12:05,542
-David: Well...
-At least that's an opportunity
for me to get to talk to ya.
218
00:12:05,626 --> 00:12:07,542
You know I have a lot
of questions.
219
00:12:07,626 --> 00:12:10,334
I've been calling you,
and talking to you about it.
220
00:12:10,417 --> 00:12:12,209
Anthony Raccuglia:
My question is,
why are you doing this?
221
00:12:12,292 --> 00:12:15,042
I know you were always
obsessed with this case.
222
00:12:15,125 --> 00:12:18,751
Do you remember how disturbed
you were that, maybe, he would
get out of prison,
223
00:12:18,834 --> 00:12:21,083
and come and harm the family
and harm you,
224
00:12:21,167 --> 00:12:24,292
and how you wanted to sleep
with me almost every night?
225
00:12:24,375 --> 00:12:26,417
You'd be waiting for me
when I came home?
226
00:12:26,500 --> 00:12:30,250
Isn't it a little bit ironic
that now you're doing
227
00:12:30,334 --> 00:12:34,500
a documentary as to whether
or not this man is innocent?
228
00:12:34,584 --> 00:12:37,375
There just isn't any doubt
that the man was guilty.
229
00:12:37,459 --> 00:12:40,000
It's just the story.
I wanted to tell the truth.
230
00:12:40,083 --> 00:12:41,709
I wanted to go all the way
back to the beginning,
231
00:12:41,792 --> 00:12:46,000
and exhaust all urban legend,
and try and just tell the story
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00:12:46,083 --> 00:12:48,709
as it, as it really happened.
233
00:12:51,459 --> 00:12:52,876
I came back to LaSalle.
234
00:12:52,959 --> 00:12:54,751
-Crew Member 1: You rolling?
-Crew Member 2: Yeah.
235
00:12:54,834 --> 00:12:57,918
-David: Oh good. Shit.
-Crew Member 3: These people
think he's innocent.
236
00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:02,459
David:
And one of the first things
I did was get all of the data,
237
00:13:02,542 --> 00:13:04,626
all of the trial transcripts,
238
00:13:04,709 --> 00:13:07,292
everything from
the investigation that existed.
239
00:13:07,375 --> 00:13:09,000
-Crew Member 1:
Is that all right?
-Crew Member 2: Yeah.
240
00:13:09,083 --> 00:13:11,959
David:
I was able to get
a lot of people
241
00:13:12,042 --> 00:13:14,876
from the case
because of my father.
242
00:13:14,959 --> 00:13:18,042
The Starved Rock murder
gave him some fame.
243
00:13:18,125 --> 00:13:19,709
And my grandfather spent
244
00:13:19,792 --> 00:13:22,792
45 years as an alderman.
245
00:13:22,876 --> 00:13:26,209
So, I interviewed
several prosecutors.
246
00:13:26,292 --> 00:13:30,292
Oh yeah, you don't
have to be too smart,
you just use common sense.
247
00:13:30,375 --> 00:13:32,083
That'll solve a lot
of questions.
248
00:13:32,167 --> 00:13:33,751
David:
Journalists of the day.
249
00:13:33,834 --> 00:13:35,667
(dogs howling, barking)
250
00:13:35,751 --> 00:13:39,417
And I wanted to go
to where real information was,
251
00:13:39,500 --> 00:13:41,000
and that was on the street.
252
00:13:41,083 --> 00:13:45,042
(country music playing)
253
00:13:45,125 --> 00:13:49,250
There was a big festival
called the Burgoo Festival.
254
00:13:49,334 --> 00:13:53,292
There's hundreds
and hundreds of people.
255
00:13:53,375 --> 00:13:57,209
We just put it out there
that we were gonna be in town,
256
00:13:57,292 --> 00:14:01,042
and we had lines of people
wanting to talk to us.
257
00:14:01,125 --> 00:14:04,751
Person:
If Weger did it,
I must've been his accomplice.
258
00:14:04,834 --> 00:14:10,000
There's no way that one man
could have contained them women.
259
00:14:10,083 --> 00:14:12,334
David:
The people who believed
in his innocence
260
00:14:12,417 --> 00:14:13,626
were very passionate.
261
00:14:13,709 --> 00:14:16,667
I don't care what anybody says,
I'll never believe it.
262
00:14:16,751 --> 00:14:18,542
Sensible? Not always.
263
00:14:18,626 --> 00:14:19,876
(Interviewer speaking)
264
00:14:19,959 --> 00:14:21,751
The man is innocent as can be,
265
00:14:21,834 --> 00:14:25,876
and, uh, and I'll go
to my grave believin' that.
266
00:14:25,959 --> 00:14:27,918
He wasn't bigger than a fly.
How in the hell...
267
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:32,584
You ever get three women
that's mad, and try
to tie 'em all three up?
268
00:14:32,667 --> 00:14:35,375
David:
The other 50% of the people
269
00:14:35,459 --> 00:14:38,542
couldn't have believed
in his guilt more.
270
00:14:38,626 --> 00:14:41,209
-Yeah, I think he's very guilty.
-Guilty.
271
00:14:41,292 --> 00:14:43,292
Sometimes people's nature
is just evil.
272
00:14:43,375 --> 00:14:45,584
David:
The community
is incredibly passionate.
273
00:14:45,667 --> 00:14:47,751
It's almost political.
274
00:14:47,834 --> 00:14:50,000
I don't think a country boy
can do something like that.
275
00:14:50,083 --> 00:14:52,584
David:
I talked to anybody
that would give me a story
276
00:14:52,667 --> 00:14:53,918
about Chester Weger.
277
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:55,792
Person:
I do think Steve Stout's book
278
00:14:55,876 --> 00:14:58,375
is the primary reason today
279
00:14:58,459 --> 00:15:01,125
people are convinced
Chester's guilty.
280
00:15:04,626 --> 00:15:06,542
David:
Growing up in this area,
when you hear the words
281
00:15:06,626 --> 00:15:08,083
"Starved Rock," you think
of Steve Stout.
282
00:15:08,167 --> 00:15:10,250
-I, personally...
-Well, that's nice to say.
283
00:15:10,334 --> 00:15:11,709
David:
Well, in my father's home,
284
00:15:11,792 --> 00:15:14,459
there's a photograph that
you did of the canyon, framed...
285
00:15:14,542 --> 00:15:16,542
I love the park,
and I'm very proud
286
00:15:16,626 --> 00:15:20,292
to have people
think about the park,
and link me with it.
287
00:15:20,375 --> 00:15:22,125
I respect the park.
I call it "my park."
288
00:15:22,209 --> 00:15:24,918
I would never hurt my park.
289
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:26,250
It's just an amazing place.
290
00:15:26,334 --> 00:15:28,167
That's what attracted
the three women
291
00:15:28,250 --> 00:15:30,000
into St. Louis Canyon that day.
292
00:15:30,083 --> 00:15:31,876
You know, Starved Rock
is named from violence,
293
00:15:31,959 --> 00:15:34,876
and that day it, it really
lived up to its name.
294
00:15:34,959 --> 00:15:39,459
Bill Danley, a reporter at the
LaSalle Daily News Tribune,
295
00:15:39,542 --> 00:15:42,083
he was there at the time
the bodies were discovered.
296
00:15:42,167 --> 00:15:44,334
David:
We have six minutes
of tape on this tape,
297
00:15:44,417 --> 00:15:45,626
and we have to change.
298
00:15:45,709 --> 00:15:48,167
Either way, I'd like you
to tell the story.
299
00:15:48,250 --> 00:15:50,292
I was 29 years old at the time,
300
00:15:50,375 --> 00:15:52,417
and about, uh, eight years into
301
00:15:52,500 --> 00:15:54,626
a 15-year newspaper career.
302
00:15:54,709 --> 00:15:57,626
On that morning, sometime early,
we'd got a, a report
303
00:15:57,709 --> 00:16:01,083
that three women were missing
at Starved Rock Lodge
at the park.
304
00:16:01,167 --> 00:16:04,042
We drove down to the mouth
of the St. Louis Canyon
305
00:16:04,125 --> 00:16:05,709
and started walking in.
306
00:16:05,792 --> 00:16:08,709
And you come around
into what is the bulb
of that canyon,
307
00:16:08,792 --> 00:16:12,375
and right in front of you
in the wintertime is a truly
majestic frozen waterfall.
308
00:16:12,459 --> 00:16:18,042
Like a giant pipe organ,
you know, in an ice land
of some kind...
309
00:16:18,125 --> 00:16:22,500
and the fresh snow,
and it looked just so pristine,
like a calendar picture.
310
00:16:22,584 --> 00:16:24,751
And then, you turn,
and right here,
311
00:16:24,834 --> 00:16:26,876
you know, is the carnage.
312
00:16:29,709 --> 00:16:33,000
Eye-level in front
of us were the bodies
of those three women.
313
00:16:34,250 --> 00:16:36,667
Nobody was expecting that,
and I'm telling you,
314
00:16:36,751 --> 00:16:39,542
it hit 'em like with the force
of a physical blow.
315
00:16:41,626 --> 00:16:44,792
And I think the thing
that, that made it seem
so profane was the fact
316
00:16:44,876 --> 00:16:47,751
they, they weren't lying
where they had fallen...
317
00:16:47,834 --> 00:16:49,918
not willy-nilly,
they had been put on display
318
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,459
with their legs spreadeagled,
their underclothes torn away.
319
00:16:57,083 --> 00:16:59,918
Philosophically,
I thought I was opposed
to the death penalty,
320
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,876
and I'm here to tell ya
on that day, in that canyon,
321
00:17:03,959 --> 00:17:08,542
I crossed that barrier
because I looked at that scene,
322
00:17:08,626 --> 00:17:11,167
I thought, if the man,
the person who did this,
323
00:17:11,250 --> 00:17:13,417
and could be brought to justice,
and the only way
324
00:17:13,500 --> 00:17:16,792
he could get what he
had comin' to him was
for me to throw the switch,
325
00:17:16,876 --> 00:17:18,459
I would do it in a heartbeat.
326
00:17:18,542 --> 00:17:22,083
And I guess I haven't changed
my mind all these years
on that subject.
327
00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:26,334
These women were not
just murdered,
328
00:17:26,417 --> 00:17:29,250
they were brutally beaten,
329
00:17:29,334 --> 00:17:31,876
almost to the point
of decapitation.
330
00:17:31,959 --> 00:17:37,626
Eyewitnesses of this,
they were never able
to get it out of their minds.
331
00:17:37,709 --> 00:17:40,292
Bill:
You just kinda grit your teeth,
and you take the pictures,
332
00:17:40,375 --> 00:17:42,626
and you'd write the stories
and you do the thing, but...
333
00:17:42,709 --> 00:17:45,626
you still go home,
and dream at night, you know?
334
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,459
So, that was where
the investigation got underway,
335
00:17:49,542 --> 00:17:53,334
and, immediately, the decision
was made the state police
would take charge.
336
00:17:53,417 --> 00:17:57,083
Anthony:
There was a competitive edge
to this investigation.
337
00:17:57,167 --> 00:17:59,918
The state police,
the sheriff's office,
338
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,709
and Harland Warren trying
each to solve this crime.
339
00:18:09,751 --> 00:18:14,584
Harland Warren:
I, uh, had no education
in solving criminal cases.
340
00:18:14,667 --> 00:18:18,083
But... you gotta
have common sense,
341
00:18:18,167 --> 00:18:19,834
and the only reason
I had common sense was
342
00:18:19,918 --> 00:18:23,292
because I was born and raised
on a farm in Serena Township.
343
00:18:23,375 --> 00:18:28,459
I've never met anyone
that reeks of another era
more than Harland Warren.
344
00:18:28,542 --> 00:18:29,876
(laughs)
345
00:18:29,959 --> 00:18:32,626
He has that conservative,
346
00:18:32,709 --> 00:18:35,626
1960 kind of style about him.
347
00:18:35,709 --> 00:18:39,375
When he starts tellin' the case,
he closes his eyes, and...
348
00:18:39,459 --> 00:18:43,042
See, uh, about 12:30
349
00:18:43,125 --> 00:18:47,167
on a, a Wednesday,
the 16th of March,
350
00:18:47,250 --> 00:18:48,500
I was at the club.
351
00:18:48,584 --> 00:18:51,083
I had my lunch,
and I was playin' gin rummy.
352
00:18:51,167 --> 00:18:54,125
I mean, who plays gin rummy
at a club at lunch?
353
00:18:54,209 --> 00:18:57,000
He had an edge about him.
354
00:18:57,083 --> 00:19:01,542
A deputy called me that they'd
found the bodies of three ladies
that were missing,
355
00:19:01,626 --> 00:19:05,834
and they'd pick me up,
and take me out
to the St. Louis Canyon.
356
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,667
State police were
already there,
357
00:19:09,751 --> 00:19:11,959
and gathering up the evidence
and everything.
358
00:19:12,042 --> 00:19:13,834
Bill:
They came in with
like flame throwers,
359
00:19:13,918 --> 00:19:16,209
and they started
melting the snow...
360
00:19:16,292 --> 00:19:18,918
and they were
gathering little bits
and pieces of evidence.
361
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,626
And when I was standin' there,
I stepped on something hard.
362
00:19:22,709 --> 00:19:26,792
So, I leaned down,
brushed some snow away,
363
00:19:26,876 --> 00:19:28,959
and here was a tree branch.
364
00:19:29,042 --> 00:19:32,292
I produced the club
as a possible murder weapon,
365
00:19:32,375 --> 00:19:36,375
and the autopsies found bits
of wood taken from the faces
366
00:19:36,459 --> 00:19:37,709
of the three ladies.
367
00:19:37,792 --> 00:19:39,876
Reporter 1:
They did recover
the murder weapon,
368
00:19:39,959 --> 00:19:42,417
a tree limb that was used
to savagely beat the women.
369
00:19:42,500 --> 00:19:47,626
Harland:
And there was also broken
binoculars and the, uh, camera.
370
00:19:47,709 --> 00:19:49,918
Bill:
The murderer had attacked them
with that camera.
371
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:51,375
That was, uh, another
murder weapon.
372
00:19:51,459 --> 00:19:53,292
They didn't seem to leave
much doubt about that.
373
00:19:53,375 --> 00:19:54,542
Reporter 1:
Then there was the twine used
374
00:19:54,626 --> 00:19:56,542
by the killer to tie
up his victims.
375
00:19:56,626 --> 00:19:58,250
Steve:
Tied up, disrobed,
376
00:19:58,334 --> 00:20:01,417
like it was a rape.
A rapist did this crime.
377
00:20:01,500 --> 00:20:04,500
Reporter 2:
You will be looking for a sex
criminal of some type,
378
00:20:04,584 --> 00:20:07,042
- I would imagine?
-That's right, I think
he would have to be.
379
00:20:07,125 --> 00:20:09,167
John Drummond:
Authorities also found several
pictures had been taken
380
00:20:09,250 --> 00:20:12,417
by the victims apparently
minutes before the murder.
381
00:20:12,500 --> 00:20:14,709
One photo gave an initial
impression of a stranger
382
00:20:14,792 --> 00:20:18,000
lurking in the background,
perhaps the killer.
383
00:20:18,083 --> 00:20:21,334
Ray Eutsey:
We found what we think
is a, is a picture of a man,
384
00:20:21,417 --> 00:20:22,918
possibly the assailant,
385
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,667
and, uh, we think
we have valuable evidence.
386
00:20:26,751 --> 00:20:29,459
John:
There was still plenty
of police work to be done.
387
00:20:29,542 --> 00:20:34,250
From LaSalle County,
John Drummond, CBS2 News.
388
00:20:42,542 --> 00:20:44,083
My name is John Drummond.
389
00:20:44,167 --> 00:20:46,250
That's spelling D like in David,
R as in Robert,
390
00:20:46,334 --> 00:20:48,626
U-M-M-O-N-D.
391
00:20:48,709 --> 00:20:50,709
I'm a former reporter
at Channel 2
392
00:20:50,792 --> 00:20:53,459
in Chicago, Illinois,
WBBM television.
393
00:20:53,542 --> 00:20:55,834
Well, there are those
who call me "Bulldog."
394
00:20:55,918 --> 00:20:58,250
I had bulldog perseverance,
and so on.
395
00:20:58,334 --> 00:21:01,209
That's how I got the name.
396
00:21:01,292 --> 00:21:03,959
In March of 1960,
there was a major, major story.
397
00:21:04,042 --> 00:21:08,334
One of the so-called
crimes of the century.
398
00:21:08,417 --> 00:21:10,000
Murders didn't happen
down there,
399
00:21:10,083 --> 00:21:12,667
and the three women that were
slain from suburban Chicago
400
00:21:12,751 --> 00:21:15,959
were all prominent,
and they were inundated
by media.
401
00:21:16,042 --> 00:21:19,209
Life magazine sent a crew
down there to cover that story.
402
00:21:19,292 --> 00:21:21,209
The Chicago Tribune
stayed at the lodge
403
00:21:21,292 --> 00:21:24,500
trying to get updates every day
on what was going on.
404
00:21:24,584 --> 00:21:26,375
Who was the killer or killers,
whoever it was?
405
00:21:26,459 --> 00:21:29,584
Why were they slain?
Were they assaulted sexually?
Were they robbed?
406
00:21:29,667 --> 00:21:31,876
These were the questions
that people are asking about.
407
00:21:31,959 --> 00:21:33,667
Reporter 1:
At the main lodge,
we talked to
408
00:21:33,751 --> 00:21:35,250
LaSalle County Sheriff
Ray Eutsey.
409
00:21:35,334 --> 00:21:38,584
Do you think this could've
been done, Sheriff, by one man?
410
00:21:38,667 --> 00:21:41,125
I suppose one man
could have done it.
411
00:21:41,209 --> 00:21:43,125
Reporter 1:
Do you think there could
be more than one man
412
00:21:43,209 --> 00:21:44,542
involved in this crime?
413
00:21:44,626 --> 00:21:46,083
That's a, that's a possibility.
414
00:21:46,167 --> 00:21:49,125
David:
I really wanted to know
who they were thinking of.
415
00:21:49,209 --> 00:21:51,459
Why, what was the motive,
416
00:21:51,542 --> 00:21:53,417
everything I could
pull together,
417
00:21:53,500 --> 00:21:55,417
starting with
the investigation.
418
00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:57,292
Harland:
The three, uh, ladies
419
00:21:57,375 --> 00:21:59,042
had been down by the waterfall,
420
00:21:59,125 --> 00:22:02,667
and we had the photograph
of Mrs. Oetting and Mrs. Murphy
421
00:22:02,751 --> 00:22:04,667
standing in the snow.
422
00:22:04,751 --> 00:22:07,500
We figured out that it
was the Billy Goat Trail.
423
00:22:07,584 --> 00:22:10,959
So, at least we knew
which trail they took
424
00:22:11,042 --> 00:22:13,500
to go down to St. Louis Canyon.
425
00:22:13,584 --> 00:22:17,167
Well, the Billy Goat Trail
came from the lodge.
426
00:22:17,250 --> 00:22:21,250
Steve:
The police believed the killer
might have saw the women
427
00:22:21,334 --> 00:22:24,751
leave the lodge,
and took a hike into the woods
428
00:22:24,834 --> 00:22:27,083
right on their path.
429
00:22:27,167 --> 00:22:30,167
Anthony:
The rumor mill
was heavy from day one
430
00:22:30,250 --> 00:22:33,417
about lodge employees
being questioned.
431
00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:38,792
There were people that thought
that maybe it was the Spiros
family that was involved.
432
00:22:38,876 --> 00:22:43,000
David:
You know, Nick Spiros was
the Starved Rock Lodge owner.
433
00:22:43,083 --> 00:22:46,250
He was concerned that it was
going to affect his business.
434
00:22:46,334 --> 00:22:47,834
John:
And people said,
"I'm not goin' down there
435
00:22:47,918 --> 00:22:51,250
to Starved Rock anymore.
No, no way, no way."
436
00:22:51,334 --> 00:22:54,167
Bill:
The husbands put up
a reward of $30,000,
437
00:22:54,250 --> 00:22:57,584
and then, Nick Spiros
at the lodge added five grand.
438
00:22:57,667 --> 00:22:59,542
David:
He was trying to turn
some of this into a bit
439
00:22:59,626 --> 00:23:01,959
of marketing, rewards.
440
00:23:02,042 --> 00:23:04,209
"I'll take the first polygraph."
441
00:23:04,292 --> 00:23:07,667
Bill:
The state police sent a couple
of lie detector operators
442
00:23:07,751 --> 00:23:11,125
to run all the lodge employees
through lie detector tests.
443
00:23:11,209 --> 00:23:15,292
David:
So, George Spiros was
the son of Nick Spiros.
444
00:23:15,375 --> 00:23:17,125
He was someone who was suspect.
445
00:23:17,209 --> 00:23:19,584
He was given a polygraph test.
446
00:23:19,667 --> 00:23:21,709
He, basically,
said he had an alibi,
447
00:23:21,792 --> 00:23:25,500
but he did say that he
saw employees of the lodge
448
00:23:25,584 --> 00:23:26,751
with the women.
449
00:23:26,834 --> 00:23:29,334
They looked
at the male employees,
450
00:23:29,417 --> 00:23:31,083
people that had
criminal records,
451
00:23:31,167 --> 00:23:33,000
anyone who looked suspicious.
452
00:23:33,083 --> 00:23:36,459
Steve:
Chester Weger and a friend
of his, Stanley Tucker,
453
00:23:36,542 --> 00:23:39,292
who worked in the kitchen,
so, of course,
they were suspects,
454
00:23:39,375 --> 00:23:42,959
like almost everybody
at the lodge was a suspect
at the time.
455
00:23:43,042 --> 00:23:46,417
Almost everybody in Illi...
Illinois Valley was a suspect.
456
00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:49,334
David:
People were interested
in that reward.
457
00:23:49,417 --> 00:23:51,876
Letters were pouring in,
458
00:23:51,959 --> 00:23:54,292
they were following up
on everything.
459
00:23:54,375 --> 00:23:56,459
Harland:
The state police figured
it was the Mafia,
460
00:23:56,542 --> 00:23:59,167
but the Mafia didn't have
a damn thing to do with that.
461
00:23:59,250 --> 00:24:00,125
(chuckles)
462
00:24:00,209 --> 00:24:01,918
David:
There was an asylum escapee.
463
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,626
That's where the madman
that was on the loose came out.
464
00:24:04,709 --> 00:24:07,500
You know, all of these leads
ended up nowhere.
465
00:24:07,584 --> 00:24:09,292
Bill:
When I looked at that scene,
I had no doubt
466
00:24:09,375 --> 00:24:10,417
it was a sex crime.
467
00:24:10,500 --> 00:24:11,792
Thing is, when they
examined the bodies,
468
00:24:11,876 --> 00:24:13,626
they didn't find any sperm.
469
00:24:13,709 --> 00:24:16,083
That was a puzzle.
They couldn't figure it out what
the hell was taking place there.
470
00:24:16,167 --> 00:24:17,459
They couldn't figure it out.
471
00:24:17,542 --> 00:24:19,834
Spring came and went,
summer started,
472
00:24:19,918 --> 00:24:22,959
and the investigation
seemed to just bog down.
473
00:24:23,042 --> 00:24:25,042
Reporter 1:
The authorities had
few clues to go on.
474
00:24:25,125 --> 00:24:27,709
Person:
They could see some man
in the background,
475
00:24:27,792 --> 00:24:29,834
but never turned out that way.
476
00:24:29,918 --> 00:24:32,125
Reporter 1:
Apparently, Mrs. Oetting
had failed to wind
477
00:24:32,209 --> 00:24:33,542
the camera completely,
478
00:24:33,626 --> 00:24:35,417
resulting in a double exposure.
479
00:24:35,500 --> 00:24:37,918
The photos were of no help
in finding the killer.
480
00:24:40,959 --> 00:24:43,334
Steve:
For eight months
the crime went unsolved.
481
00:24:43,417 --> 00:24:45,667
People were so scared.
482
00:24:45,751 --> 00:24:48,751
People wouldn't go
to the park, the lodge.
483
00:24:48,834 --> 00:24:50,667
They pulled their kids
in at night.
484
00:24:50,751 --> 00:24:53,918
Everybody was scared to death.
485
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,000
Who could've killed
these three women?
486
00:24:58,751 --> 00:25:00,542
-David: Are you rolling yet?
-Crew Member: Yeah.
487
00:25:00,626 --> 00:25:03,417
You know what,
what I opened my book to?
488
00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:05,792
Habeas corpus.
Ya ever hear of habeas corpus?
489
00:25:05,876 --> 00:25:08,375
David:
I have. What is, what is,
actually, habeas corpus?
490
00:25:08,459 --> 00:25:12,250
Harland:
It means, whatever you're
looking for, you found it.
491
00:25:12,334 --> 00:25:14,083
David:
Just look in the book
a little bit
492
00:25:14,167 --> 00:25:15,542
like you're reading, Harland,
493
00:25:15,626 --> 00:25:17,459
for a few...
just for a couple minutes here.
494
00:25:17,542 --> 00:25:18,959
Sure.
495
00:25:19,042 --> 00:25:22,709
Harland:
Time went on,
but we didn't have a suspect.
496
00:25:22,792 --> 00:25:24,709
And The Chicago Tribune
497
00:25:24,792 --> 00:25:27,584
blamed me for bungling
the evidence.
498
00:25:27,667 --> 00:25:30,626
I thought, "Well, hell,
as long as I'm the goat,
499
00:25:30,709 --> 00:25:33,709
"uh, maybe, I better
look into this thing,
500
00:25:33,792 --> 00:25:36,125
see if I can find anything."
501
00:25:36,209 --> 00:25:38,542
So, I went
to the sheriff, Eutsey,
502
00:25:38,626 --> 00:25:42,334
and I said, "I would like
to have you assign Wayne Hess
503
00:25:42,417 --> 00:25:45,292
"and Bill Dummett
to me exclusively.
504
00:25:45,375 --> 00:25:49,000
No publicity or anything,
just let us go."
505
00:25:49,083 --> 00:25:53,709
Hess was a gentleman,
a police farmer, a great guy.
506
00:25:53,792 --> 00:25:56,334
Dummett was a different
type of person,
507
00:25:56,417 --> 00:25:59,417
but he was just
a hard-nosed policeman,
508
00:25:59,500 --> 00:26:01,042
and that's 1960,
509
00:26:01,125 --> 00:26:03,959
and they were the classic
good cop, bad cop.
510
00:26:04,042 --> 00:26:06,125
Made a good team, I thought.
511
00:26:19,292 --> 00:26:22,042
"...is the evidence gathered
at the scene of the crime."
512
00:26:22,125 --> 00:26:27,751
I'd sit by the hour
in my private office
with all the evidence,
513
00:26:27,834 --> 00:26:31,959
and I thought, "Well, what is
there here that's a solution?"
514
00:26:32,042 --> 00:26:33,834
So, kind of, absentmindedly
515
00:26:33,918 --> 00:26:36,083
I picked up some
of the knotted cord
516
00:26:36,167 --> 00:26:40,375
that was removed
from the wrists
of the three ladies...
517
00:26:40,459 --> 00:26:44,000
and I started counting
the number of strands,
518
00:26:44,083 --> 00:26:47,417
and it came out to 32.
519
00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:50,375
I called Mr. Spiros,
and I said,
520
00:26:50,459 --> 00:26:53,417
"Maybe this string
came from the lodge."
521
00:26:53,500 --> 00:26:58,751
So, I went to the lodge
at night when there'd
be no one around.
522
00:26:58,834 --> 00:27:01,626
Finally, I got out
to the kitchen,
523
00:27:01,709 --> 00:27:06,667
and here was a butcher block
with a cone of cord.
524
00:27:06,751 --> 00:27:12,042
And here on a coat hanger
was a ball of cord.
525
00:27:12,125 --> 00:27:13,959
I snipped off a piece,
526
00:27:14,042 --> 00:27:18,375
went back to my office
in the middle of the night,
527
00:27:18,459 --> 00:27:20,459
and I start counting.
528
00:27:20,542 --> 00:27:26,417
The cone of cord is 20,
and the ball of cord is 12.
529
00:27:26,500 --> 00:27:29,792
Well, and I start
loosening the knot.
530
00:27:29,876 --> 00:27:32,792
It turns out
there were two strings.
531
00:27:32,876 --> 00:27:36,500
What's 12 plus 20? 32.
532
00:27:38,042 --> 00:27:40,334
So, I got in touch
with John Reid,
533
00:27:40,417 --> 00:27:43,209
polygraph people,
internationally known.
534
00:27:43,292 --> 00:27:46,792
And they sent down
Steve Kindig,
one of his operators.
535
00:27:46,876 --> 00:27:52,292
Steve set up his polygraph
in the two-room cabin,
536
00:27:52,375 --> 00:27:56,417
and Dummett and Hess started
bringing in the employees.
537
00:28:00,167 --> 00:28:02,250
One of the individuals
brought in
538
00:28:02,334 --> 00:28:05,250
identified himself
as Chester Weger.
539
00:28:05,334 --> 00:28:08,125
Chester Weger's
a dish washer in the kitchen.
540
00:28:08,209 --> 00:28:11,542
"Chester, do you carry
string like this?"
"Well, yes, I do."
541
00:28:11,626 --> 00:28:13,584
"I'd make little cats
in the cradle,
542
00:28:13,667 --> 00:28:16,542
set snares and traps
for animals in the park."
543
00:28:16,626 --> 00:28:20,876
Harland:
Usually, Steve only spent
about 15 minutes with people.
544
00:28:20,959 --> 00:28:22,209
Half an hour went by,
545
00:28:22,292 --> 00:28:24,167
three quarters
of an hour went by.
546
00:28:24,250 --> 00:28:27,709
In about an hour,
Steve came out.
547
00:28:27,792 --> 00:28:31,125
His face white as a bedsheet.
548
00:28:31,209 --> 00:28:33,751
He says, "He's the one."
549
00:28:33,834 --> 00:28:37,125
He says, "I'm 100% sure."
550
00:28:40,292 --> 00:28:42,709
Now we had our suspect.
551
00:28:45,042 --> 00:28:46,792
David:
So, here it is right here.
552
00:28:46,876 --> 00:28:51,334
This is where Chester Weger's
family home was.
553
00:28:51,417 --> 00:28:55,083
They were big coon hunters.
554
00:28:55,167 --> 00:28:59,042
I'm sure this is
coon hunting heaven right here.
555
00:28:59,125 --> 00:29:02,751
You do realize we may get...
Somebody'll call the police.
556
00:29:02,834 --> 00:29:05,083
-Crew Member: Yeah.
-And I'm not kidding you.
557
00:29:05,167 --> 00:29:06,417
-Crew Member: Yeah.
-I know that...
558
00:29:06,500 --> 00:29:08,918
So, in the making of this film,
my whole goal,
559
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,709
I, I, I don't know if this is
cathartic or what the reason is,
560
00:29:12,792 --> 00:29:15,375
I just wanted to talk
to Chester Weger in person.
561
00:29:15,459 --> 00:29:19,209
I needed to sit across
from him and talk to him.
562
00:29:19,292 --> 00:29:21,000
That was very important to me.
563
00:29:21,083 --> 00:29:22,751
I wanted to figure out
564
00:29:22,834 --> 00:29:25,209
Chester Weger as a man,
what is he like
565
00:29:25,292 --> 00:29:28,834
because he scared the shit
out of me most of my life.
566
00:29:28,918 --> 00:29:31,000
So, I wrote Chester a letter.
567
00:29:31,083 --> 00:29:32,834
He never responded.
568
00:29:32,918 --> 00:29:35,876
I wrote him a second letter,
he never responded.
569
00:29:35,959 --> 00:29:40,000
Of course, having the last name
Raccuglia didn't help,
570
00:29:40,083 --> 00:29:43,459
so I started collecting
and gathering all these stories
571
00:29:43,542 --> 00:29:45,375
about him as a person.
572
00:29:45,459 --> 00:29:48,000
You know, there's a lot
of stories, believe me.
573
00:29:48,083 --> 00:29:52,083
My aunt Theresa,
my father's sister,
574
00:29:52,167 --> 00:29:53,709
went to school with Chester.
575
00:29:53,792 --> 00:29:57,375
She had a lot to say
about Chester Weger.
576
00:29:57,459 --> 00:29:59,000
Person:
That's right. Okay.
577
00:29:59,083 --> 00:30:03,083
We're all here tonight
to work on our class reunion.
578
00:30:03,167 --> 00:30:09,042
Chester Weger was a member
of our class for two years.
579
00:30:09,125 --> 00:30:11,417
Theresa Raccuglia Ellerbrock:
He never really talked much.
580
00:30:11,500 --> 00:30:13,959
What I remember of him
is the fact
581
00:30:14,042 --> 00:30:15,959
that we would walk out
the front door of LP,
582
00:30:16,042 --> 00:30:17,751
and he'd be in the tree
eating his lunch,
583
00:30:17,834 --> 00:30:19,167
and he, he'd make sounds at us.
584
00:30:19,250 --> 00:30:23,042
We'd hear this "whoooo" sound
coming from a tree.
585
00:30:23,125 --> 00:30:25,667
Well, it was him, he was up
in the tree eating his lunch.
586
00:30:25,751 --> 00:30:29,000
He was creepy, reclusive, loner.
587
00:30:29,083 --> 00:30:31,834
He had trouble with his wife
when he was married
with two kids.
588
00:30:31,918 --> 00:30:35,500
-Oh my god.
-I didn't even know he had kids.
-There were a lot of stories...
589
00:30:35,584 --> 00:30:38,959
There were a lot of stories
that came out that way that I,
590
00:30:39,042 --> 00:30:42,751
that I was told that I'm not
going to repeat at this point,
591
00:30:42,834 --> 00:30:44,959
but, um, yeah.
592
00:30:45,042 --> 00:30:50,375
So, I, uh, you know,
whatever ya think, ya think.
593
00:30:54,334 --> 00:30:56,375
We, we heard that,
we believed it.
594
00:30:56,459 --> 00:31:00,459
So, it may be that, uh, Chester
had a problem of some kind.
595
00:31:00,542 --> 00:31:03,250
There was always rumors
to that effect.
596
00:31:03,334 --> 00:31:06,375
David:
I've heard Chester
had a criminal past,
597
00:31:06,459 --> 00:31:08,709
the rape, when he
was 12 years old.
598
00:31:08,792 --> 00:31:11,542
-Juvenile. Juvenile records.
-Juvenile records.
599
00:31:11,626 --> 00:31:15,209
I think that's another, uh,
nail in his coffin, so to speak,
600
00:31:15,292 --> 00:31:18,500
that proves to you that
he was entirely capable.
601
00:31:18,584 --> 00:31:21,459
I have no doubts in my mind,
you know, that Chester
602
00:31:21,542 --> 00:31:23,459
assaulted the victims
who were killed here.
603
00:31:23,542 --> 00:31:27,083
They didn't find any sperm,
but, maybe, he was shooting
blanks or something.
604
00:31:27,167 --> 00:31:28,834
I don't know the answer.
605
00:31:28,918 --> 00:31:32,334
Anthony:
I think he had a propensity
to do these kinds of things,
606
00:31:32,417 --> 00:31:38,667
and this, of course,
was the major reason why
this case was finally solved.
607
00:31:38,751 --> 00:31:43,626
David:
In 1959, seven months
before the actual murders,
608
00:31:43,709 --> 00:31:46,918
there was another rape that
happened in Matthiessen Park,
609
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,918
which is a park
right next to Starved Rock,
610
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,125
very close to the Weger home
as well.
611
00:31:53,209 --> 00:31:56,375
Nothing came of it for months.
612
00:31:56,459 --> 00:31:58,250
Anthony:
There was a letter
that we saw that came
613
00:31:58,334 --> 00:32:02,000
from a teacher
by the name of Sue Ocepeck.
614
00:32:02,083 --> 00:32:04,417
She, actually, in my opinion,
615
00:32:04,500 --> 00:32:07,834
is the unsung hero
of this whole thing.
616
00:32:13,459 --> 00:32:15,334
From September 'til March.
617
00:32:15,417 --> 00:32:18,000
Sue Ocepeck:
45 years ago,
618
00:32:18,083 --> 00:32:20,000
a student of mine
619
00:32:20,083 --> 00:32:22,125
in my first year of teaching,
620
00:32:22,209 --> 00:32:23,626
um, told me
621
00:32:23,709 --> 00:32:27,626
about having been raped
in Matthiessen State Park.
622
00:32:29,667 --> 00:32:31,959
She was a teenager.
623
00:32:32,042 --> 00:32:36,667
Her and her boyfriend,
they were on this path,
624
00:32:36,751 --> 00:32:44,500
and this guy came out,
he had a rifle.
625
00:32:44,584 --> 00:32:49,792
He told her to tie
her boyfriend's hands.
626
00:32:49,876 --> 00:32:53,417
And she figured when he got
the wallet, you know, then,
627
00:32:53,500 --> 00:32:55,417
then he'd let 'em go.
628
00:32:55,500 --> 00:32:57,751
But he didn't.
629
00:32:57,834 --> 00:33:03,667
And she said she'll
never forget his face
as long as she lives.
630
00:33:03,751 --> 00:33:07,167
All the time that
he was raping her,
631
00:33:07,250 --> 00:33:10,167
he rolled a bullet in his mouth.
632
00:33:16,292 --> 00:33:21,834
Deputy sheriffs who had talked
to them did not believe
their story,
633
00:33:21,918 --> 00:33:25,042
and I couldn't understand,
why wouldn't they believe
the story, you know?
634
00:33:25,125 --> 00:33:28,834
I later found out
that those officers
635
00:33:28,918 --> 00:33:31,500
were Dummett and Hess.
636
00:33:31,584 --> 00:33:36,083
The next thing that happens,
one of those moments
that you remember forever,
637
00:33:36,167 --> 00:33:40,459
I was standing there ironing,
and I had the radio on.
638
00:33:40,542 --> 00:33:42,792
Reporter 1:
Early in the afternoon,
about 1 PM,
639
00:33:42,876 --> 00:33:45,375
they got a tip that
three Chicago women
had been found dead.
640
00:33:45,459 --> 00:33:47,209
Reporter 2:
Their bodies were found
this morning in a cave
641
00:33:47,292 --> 00:33:48,876
in Starved Rock State Park.
642
00:33:48,959 --> 00:33:51,542
At least two of the women
apparently had been raped.
643
00:33:51,626 --> 00:33:54,542
I was just covered with chills,
and, and I, actually, just felt
644
00:33:54,626 --> 00:33:58,334
like a bolt down my back.
645
00:33:58,417 --> 00:34:03,000
Now he did it, you know, this...
Maybe it's the same person.
646
00:34:04,792 --> 00:34:08,125
We both just hugged
each other and cried
647
00:34:08,209 --> 00:34:11,792
'cause we just kinda knew,
she thought so right away, too.
648
00:34:11,876 --> 00:34:15,459
She told me that the rapist
649
00:34:15,542 --> 00:34:20,250
had used twine
to wrap their wrists.
650
00:34:20,334 --> 00:34:22,292
I said, "I just have
to write a letter.
651
00:34:22,375 --> 00:34:25,709
"I have to tell them it might
have been the same person
652
00:34:25,792 --> 00:34:29,500
who then was still free
to commit murder."
653
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,667
Dummett:
Well, then after this,
654
00:34:32,751 --> 00:34:34,584
I took a whole bunch of photos.
655
00:34:34,667 --> 00:34:36,584
I went to this gal's house,
656
00:34:36,667 --> 00:34:38,500
and, all of a sudden, she said
657
00:34:38,584 --> 00:34:40,375
that Chester raped her.
658
00:34:40,459 --> 00:34:43,918
She had busted out crying
and yelling and screaming
659
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,792
and everything else.
660
00:34:45,876 --> 00:34:51,292
David:
And so Dummett and Hess
brought Chester to a lineup.
661
00:34:51,375 --> 00:34:52,667
And James Supan,
662
00:34:52,751 --> 00:34:55,918
who was the boyfriend
of the rape victim,
663
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,542
also identified Chester
664
00:34:57,626 --> 00:35:02,751
as the person who
raped and robbed
that day in the park.
665
00:35:02,834 --> 00:35:06,375
So, Chester was brought back
into the interrogation room,
666
00:35:06,459 --> 00:35:09,209
and confronted
with three crimes.
667
00:35:09,292 --> 00:35:11,876
They said,
"Now we have you on these two,
668
00:35:11,959 --> 00:35:15,584
you might as well admit
to the Starved Rock murders."
669
00:35:15,667 --> 00:35:18,792
Steve:
He was faced with jail time
for the rape, robbery.
670
00:35:18,876 --> 00:35:22,125
He knew he was going to jail.
671
00:35:22,209 --> 00:35:23,792
He was caught.
672
00:35:31,459 --> 00:35:35,542
Steve:
And when his mom said,
"Son, tell the truth,"
673
00:35:35,626 --> 00:35:37,876
she walked out of the room
and that's when he did it.
674
00:35:37,959 --> 00:35:39,542
(David speaking)
675
00:35:39,626 --> 00:35:41,125
Sounds like an old Cagney movie,
676
00:35:41,209 --> 00:35:43,375
but that doesn't disprove
it didn't happen.
677
00:35:43,459 --> 00:35:45,209
Harland:
Around midnight,
678
00:35:45,292 --> 00:35:49,459
finally, Chester broke down
and confessed.
679
00:35:49,542 --> 00:35:52,959
Reporter 1:
23-year-old dish washer
Chester Otto Weger
680
00:35:53,042 --> 00:35:57,167
has confessed that he killed
three prominent Riverside women
681
00:35:57,250 --> 00:35:59,334
last March
in Starved Rock State Park,
682
00:35:59,417 --> 00:36:02,334
one of the most brutal crimes
solved suddenly
683
00:36:02,417 --> 00:36:04,918
after eight long months
of investigation.
684
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,167
The confessed killer claims
that his mind was on robbery,
685
00:36:08,250 --> 00:36:10,792
not murder last March.
686
00:36:13,876 --> 00:36:16,959
-Bill: Chester Weger.
-Director: Go ahead, Bill.
687
00:36:17,042 --> 00:36:19,417
Chester Weger, well,
he got an itch
688
00:36:19,500 --> 00:36:22,250
Killed three women
with a white oak switch
689
00:36:22,334 --> 00:36:25,125
Yes, Chester Weger,
hound of hell
690
00:36:25,209 --> 00:36:27,125
Played it cool,
he did not tell
691
00:36:27,209 --> 00:36:29,417
Until his mother shed a tear
692
00:36:29,500 --> 00:36:31,167
Told him,
tell the truth, my dear
693
00:36:31,250 --> 00:36:33,334
Then Chester bowed
his head in pain
694
00:36:33,417 --> 00:36:36,500
Gulped and said,
I done it, Wayne
695
00:36:40,918 --> 00:36:43,334
(laughs)
Gonna start over.
696
00:36:43,417 --> 00:36:45,918
Forgot the lines.
697
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,876
(murmuring lines)
698
00:36:48,959 --> 00:36:52,167
Steve:
Chester Weger wakes up
in the morning
699
00:36:52,250 --> 00:36:53,876
after his confession,
700
00:36:53,959 --> 00:36:58,125
and they ask him if he would
go down to the canyon
for a reenactment.
701
00:36:58,209 --> 00:37:02,083
He was put on a metal leash,
drug around this canyon,
702
00:37:02,167 --> 00:37:06,584
and he explained,
to dozens of reporters,
703
00:37:06,667 --> 00:37:09,042
how he committed
the Starved Rock murders.
704
00:37:09,125 --> 00:37:12,792
Reporter:
Sheriff's deputies take
the place of the women
705
00:37:12,876 --> 00:37:15,584
as Weger reenacts the crime.
706
00:37:15,667 --> 00:37:18,667
Steve:
He saw the women
come down this way.
707
00:37:18,751 --> 00:37:21,834
Reporter:
He says he tried to grab
the purse of one woman,
708
00:37:21,918 --> 00:37:23,292
and found it was a camera.
709
00:37:23,375 --> 00:37:25,792
The three women were cowed
into letting him tie them up,
710
00:37:25,876 --> 00:37:28,626
to give him a chance
to get away, which they did.
711
00:37:28,709 --> 00:37:30,918
So, when he turns
to leave the canyon,
712
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,167
one of the women broke
free from their bonds,
ran out behind him,
713
00:37:34,250 --> 00:37:37,626
and started beating him
in the back of the head
with a pair of binoculars.
714
00:37:37,709 --> 00:37:39,334
Reporter:
Mrs. Murphy came after him.
715
00:37:39,417 --> 00:37:41,918
He then picked up a broken limb
of a tree and clubbed her.
716
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,751
Steve:
He picks up a frozen tree log,
717
00:37:44,834 --> 00:37:48,334
he turns and he hits her,
she goes down.
718
00:37:48,417 --> 00:37:51,667
He instantly realizes
he has to go back,
719
00:37:51,751 --> 00:37:53,709
and do damage
to the other two women
720
00:37:53,792 --> 00:37:57,250
to prevent identification,
and that's just what he does.
721
00:37:57,334 --> 00:37:59,792
Reporter:
So, he clubbed
them to death, too.
722
00:37:59,876 --> 00:38:01,459
Steve:
He rips up their clothes.
723
00:38:01,542 --> 00:38:04,125
He says he wanted to make
it look like it was a rape,
724
00:38:04,209 --> 00:38:05,751
a rapist did this crime.
725
00:38:05,834 --> 00:38:10,334
He wanted money.
That's all he wanted
was money, green paper.
726
00:38:10,417 --> 00:38:13,500
It's all about green paper.
That's what he wanted.
727
00:38:15,292 --> 00:38:17,626
Kathy:
You know, I liked thinking
that my grandmother
728
00:38:17,709 --> 00:38:21,083
was the feisty one,
you know, who...
729
00:38:21,167 --> 00:38:24,417
You know, 'cause, again,
the way we understood the story,
730
00:38:24,500 --> 00:38:26,500
you know, you should
just lie there.
731
00:38:26,584 --> 00:38:29,542
Don't stand up and go,
you know, if...
732
00:38:29,626 --> 00:38:34,042
I don't know.
I liked thinking that
she was this feisty lady
733
00:38:34,125 --> 00:38:36,250
who would stick up
for her friends.
734
00:38:37,375 --> 00:38:40,042
(Reporter speaking)
735
00:38:40,125 --> 00:38:43,375
Oh, yes, he, uh,
at times he, uh,
736
00:38:43,459 --> 00:38:44,584
showed a lot of sadness,
737
00:38:44,667 --> 00:38:47,459
shed a few tears
from time to time.
738
00:38:47,542 --> 00:38:51,000
He signed every page
of his confession.
739
00:38:51,083 --> 00:38:52,667
He didn't sign at the end.
740
00:38:52,751 --> 00:38:57,667
Every single page
of this confession,
741
00:38:57,751 --> 00:39:01,959
and this is the real deal here,
has his signature on it.
742
00:39:02,042 --> 00:39:03,709
David:
After the reenactment,
743
00:39:03,792 --> 00:39:08,125
he confessed again
to multiple people.
744
00:39:08,209 --> 00:39:11,751
Not once, not twice,
not three times, nine times.
745
00:39:12,584 --> 00:39:14,417
But within 24 hours,
746
00:39:14,500 --> 00:39:17,334
he recanted the confession,
he said he didn't do it.
747
00:39:17,417 --> 00:39:19,542
He said, "I'm gonna sign
the confession,
748
00:39:19,626 --> 00:39:23,042
and I'm gonna prove
my innocence in the courtroom."
749
00:39:25,542 --> 00:39:28,000
David:
You've covered everything
I need covered.
750
00:39:28,083 --> 00:39:29,834
My goal is to...
751
00:39:29,918 --> 00:39:31,667
I'm doing, I'm,
I'm doing exactly...
752
00:39:31,751 --> 00:39:33,083
I'll be interested in your goal.
753
00:39:33,167 --> 00:39:35,375
I'm doing exactly what you're
asking me to do...
754
00:39:35,459 --> 00:39:38,417
If you weren't the son
of Mr. Raccuglia,
755
00:39:38,500 --> 00:39:41,792
I would question your motives.
756
00:39:41,876 --> 00:39:43,959
-I know you know he's guilty.
-Ask me.
757
00:39:44,042 --> 00:39:45,542
I know you know he's guilty.
758
00:39:45,626 --> 00:39:47,751
I know the old man
knows he's guilty.
759
00:39:47,834 --> 00:39:52,125
What is your... point of view?
760
00:39:52,209 --> 00:39:55,584
Because I certainly
wanted to know if
you're the Free Chester...
761
00:39:55,667 --> 00:39:57,167
part of the Free Chester Weger
movement,
762
00:39:57,250 --> 00:39:59,167
and that's what
most documentaries do.
763
00:39:59,250 --> 00:40:02,292
They search out a injustice,
try to correct this.
764
00:40:02,375 --> 00:40:05,584
There was not
any injustice in this case
765
00:40:05,667 --> 00:40:09,959
until the LaSalle County
Appellate Defender's Office
reopened it,
766
00:40:10,042 --> 00:40:11,918
and that's the injustice.
767
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,250
Do I believe if he's innocent
or if he's guilty,
768
00:40:15,334 --> 00:40:17,334
and also, as a filmmaker,
I don't wanna answer.
769
00:40:17,417 --> 00:40:19,000
I just wanna keep pointin'
the camera...
770
00:40:19,083 --> 00:40:21,584
Oh, right, I'm, I'm
talking as a son.
771
00:40:23,959 --> 00:40:26,834
One second, let us
get that underneath ya.
772
00:40:26,918 --> 00:40:28,042
-Okay.
-All right.
773
00:40:28,125 --> 00:40:29,876
I remember going to my father,
774
00:40:29,959 --> 00:40:31,125
and telling him that
775
00:40:31,209 --> 00:40:32,667
I didn't wanna go to college.
776
00:40:32,751 --> 00:40:34,834
I wanted to be
a hairdresser.
777
00:40:34,918 --> 00:40:37,125
That was a big pill
for my father to swallow.
778
00:40:37,209 --> 00:40:40,167
My father really wanted me
to be an attorney.
779
00:40:40,250 --> 00:40:42,167
He didn't want me
to waste my intellect.
780
00:40:42,250 --> 00:40:44,834
My sister became a judge.
781
00:40:44,918 --> 00:40:47,876
I, personally, was a little bit
of a hippy at heart.
782
00:40:47,959 --> 00:40:50,959
I wanted to be
in a creative field,
see the world.
783
00:40:51,042 --> 00:40:53,292
Ultimately, he came to me,
and he said,
784
00:40:53,375 --> 00:40:57,584
"Look, you wanna be
a hairstylist,
you need to be the best."
785
00:40:57,667 --> 00:41:01,334
I moved to London, England,
I opened salons.
786
00:41:01,417 --> 00:41:04,250
I did hair shows,
I worked for product companies.
787
00:41:04,334 --> 00:41:07,876
You know, I had an incredibly
great career that brought me
all around the world.
788
00:41:07,959 --> 00:41:10,042
But then, Donna Kelly decided
789
00:41:10,125 --> 00:41:12,209
that she was going to reopen
790
00:41:12,292 --> 00:41:13,792
Chester Weger's case.
791
00:41:13,876 --> 00:41:15,542
It just hit me.
792
00:41:15,626 --> 00:41:19,667
I had to know why
he signed that confession.
793
00:41:19,751 --> 00:41:22,292
This film became more than just,
794
00:41:22,375 --> 00:41:25,167
"Oh, I'm gonna make a film."
It became an obsession to me.
795
00:41:25,250 --> 00:41:31,000
I give my father
a lot of credit because
he wasn't against it,
796
00:41:31,083 --> 00:41:33,500
but he thought it was a waste
of time and money
797
00:41:33,584 --> 00:41:37,876
'cause my father
believes in his guilt.
798
00:41:37,959 --> 00:41:42,417
Anthony:
Frankly, arrests should've been
made much earlier than that.
799
00:41:42,500 --> 00:41:46,167
I was surprised
that Harland Warren waited
until after the election.
800
00:41:46,250 --> 00:41:49,918
That would've really helped
getting himself back in office
801
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:54,375
because the big issue
in that campaign was
the Starved Rock murder.
802
00:41:54,459 --> 00:41:59,459
Harland:
My opponent ran ads that
I was bungling the evidence.
803
00:41:59,542 --> 00:42:01,709
But then,
if we'd brought him in,
804
00:42:01,792 --> 00:42:03,918
and got the confession
before the election,
805
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,167
they'd say,
"Oh, the state's attorney,
in order to save his hide,
806
00:42:07,250 --> 00:42:09,500
forced a confession
out of him."
807
00:42:09,584 --> 00:42:14,209
So, for that reason, we waited
'til after the, the election.
808
00:42:14,292 --> 00:42:16,667
Of course, I was soundly beaten.
809
00:42:16,751 --> 00:42:18,209
(chuckles)
810
00:42:18,292 --> 00:42:20,125
Steve:
A case that he solved,
811
00:42:20,209 --> 00:42:21,709
he never got
to try it in court,
812
00:42:21,792 --> 00:42:25,125
but he laid out a great plan
for the next state's attorney,
813
00:42:25,209 --> 00:42:27,000
Robert Richardson, a good man.
814
00:42:27,083 --> 00:42:30,083
But he'd never handled
a criminal case before,
815
00:42:30,167 --> 00:42:33,292
and Tony Raccuglia,
his first assistant,
816
00:42:33,375 --> 00:42:35,125
fresh out of law school,
817
00:42:35,209 --> 00:42:38,667
so we had two guys
in charge of prosecuting
818
00:42:38,751 --> 00:42:43,459
the most important criminal case
of 1960 in America,
819
00:42:43,542 --> 00:42:46,584
never tried a criminal case.
820
00:42:46,667 --> 00:42:48,667
Imagine the pressure they felt.
821
00:42:55,542 --> 00:42:56,918
Yes, it is.
822
00:43:19,125 --> 00:43:21,292
David:
The first time
I walked into this courtroom
823
00:43:21,375 --> 00:43:23,626
when I was making
this documentary,
824
00:43:23,709 --> 00:43:25,584
I had a stack of photos,
825
00:43:25,667 --> 00:43:29,125
and I was looking at this room,
and I was looking
at these little tables
826
00:43:29,209 --> 00:43:34,000
where my father tried the case,
with no experience.
827
00:43:34,083 --> 00:43:35,792
And there were
people everywhere.
828
00:43:35,876 --> 00:43:37,292
People couldn't wait to get in.
829
00:43:37,375 --> 00:43:40,125
It was like
a Bruce Springsteen concert.
830
00:43:41,626 --> 00:43:45,083
Anthony:
While it was a great deal
of responsibility,
831
00:43:45,167 --> 00:43:48,834
I also, selfishly, looked
at it as a way to prove
832
00:43:48,918 --> 00:43:53,626
that I was capable of doing
trial work at 26 years of age.
833
00:43:53,709 --> 00:43:58,042
There were magazines
and newspapers
from all over the world.
834
00:43:58,125 --> 00:44:00,334
Bill:
Chester's conduct
during the trial,
835
00:44:00,417 --> 00:44:02,000
and during other
public appearances
836
00:44:02,083 --> 00:44:05,751
really seemed quite strange.
He seemed to be enjoying
the notoriety.
837
00:44:05,834 --> 00:44:08,417
John:
At that time, he was known
as Rocky Weger, not Chester.
838
00:44:08,500 --> 00:44:10,918
Rocky Weger, ex-Marine
they always billed him as.
839
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,334
I think he had the "Rocky"
tattooed on his arm
if I recall.
840
00:44:14,417 --> 00:44:15,959
He gave that impression
with that swagger,
841
00:44:16,042 --> 00:44:18,042
that type of tough guy
with the little duck tail.
842
00:44:18,125 --> 00:44:19,959
Oh yeah, he was not eating
humble pie in those days,
843
00:44:20,042 --> 00:44:22,000
I don't think.
No, no, no, no.
844
00:44:22,083 --> 00:44:23,167
Bill:
They'd be leading him
to the courtroom,
845
00:44:23,250 --> 00:44:25,334
and the guys would
shout questions.
846
00:44:25,417 --> 00:44:27,751
"Rocky this" and "Rocky that,"
and he loved it.
847
00:44:27,834 --> 00:44:30,459
He, kind of, enjoyed being
the center of attention.
848
00:44:30,542 --> 00:44:31,834
Anthony:
He was the star.
849
00:44:31,918 --> 00:44:33,626
He was gonna be the person
850
00:44:33,709 --> 00:44:36,876
who would make or break
the evidence in the case.
851
00:44:40,918 --> 00:44:43,626
David:
In the trial, my father
didn't really have
852
00:44:43,709 --> 00:44:46,167
a lot of huge evidence
853
00:44:46,250 --> 00:44:50,459
besides the scratches
and the suede jacket.
854
00:44:52,292 --> 00:44:57,709
The suede jacket was a big part
of the prosecution's case
855
00:44:57,792 --> 00:45:03,334
because of blood spatters
that were found
of human strain.
856
00:45:03,417 --> 00:45:06,125
It was spattered human blood
857
00:45:06,209 --> 00:45:10,209
by repeated blows
in a bloody area,
858
00:45:10,292 --> 00:45:12,000
and I hit heavy on that.
859
00:45:12,083 --> 00:45:15,083
That was one of the keys
to this case, and the scratches.
860
00:45:15,167 --> 00:45:19,417
We did bring in a number
of kitchen employees
from the lodge,
861
00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:24,125
and they all said that his face
was pretty badly scratched.
862
00:45:24,209 --> 00:45:27,792
And then, of course,
Stanley Tucker
was a friend of Chester,
863
00:45:27,876 --> 00:45:29,626
colleague at the lodge.
864
00:45:29,709 --> 00:45:32,250
Stanley Tucker also said
that Chester Weger
865
00:45:32,334 --> 00:45:36,209
had scratches on his face
at the time of the murder.
866
00:45:36,292 --> 00:45:39,292
Anthony:
That afternoon, the comments
in the kitchen were,
867
00:45:39,375 --> 00:45:43,083
"Your face looks like you were
in a fight with a cat,"
868
00:45:43,167 --> 00:45:46,083
and his answers were that,
"I cut myself shaving."
869
00:45:46,167 --> 00:45:48,125
There is absolutely no way
870
00:45:48,209 --> 00:45:52,709
that those types of scratches
could've come from shaving.
871
00:45:52,792 --> 00:45:55,792
Anything you can tell us
about how you're gonna
conduct the trial?
872
00:45:55,876 --> 00:45:59,125
Well, as much as I can
tell you at this time is
873
00:45:59,209 --> 00:46:01,792
that Chester will take
the stand in his own defense.
874
00:46:01,876 --> 00:46:04,209
Anthony:
Chester Weger was a very cocky,
875
00:46:04,292 --> 00:46:07,792
very assured man,
who was of the impression
876
00:46:07,876 --> 00:46:10,000
that he was gonna
beat this rap.
877
00:46:10,083 --> 00:46:12,876
I sat with Bob Richardson,
and he said to me,
878
00:46:12,959 --> 00:46:16,500
"I don't wanna
cross-examine him.
I don't think I can.
879
00:46:16,584 --> 00:46:19,042
You're gonna have
to cross-examine Weger."
880
00:46:21,209 --> 00:46:23,667
David:
My father had
never tried anything
881
00:46:23,751 --> 00:46:25,709
near the Starved Rock murders.
882
00:46:25,792 --> 00:46:27,626
He was 26 years old.
883
00:46:27,709 --> 00:46:30,417
But he was superhuman
in a lot of ways.
884
00:46:30,500 --> 00:46:33,626
I can, I can only
picture him in his 20s
885
00:46:33,709 --> 00:46:37,042
with something to prove.
886
00:46:37,125 --> 00:46:38,876
Anthony:
In those days,
887
00:46:38,959 --> 00:46:42,167
you could put your nose
right up to the witness.
888
00:46:42,250 --> 00:46:45,209
Sort of the rough
and tumble trial days,
and that's what I did.
889
00:46:45,292 --> 00:46:49,042
I got within nose to nose
of him, and I said,
890
00:46:49,125 --> 00:46:51,709
"You killed three women."
891
00:46:51,792 --> 00:46:56,042
And that set the tone
for my cross-examination.
892
00:46:57,918 --> 00:47:03,250
My goal was to make
his answers so unreasonable,
893
00:47:03,334 --> 00:47:04,626
so ludicrous,
894
00:47:04,709 --> 00:47:07,167
that the jury
would have to believe
895
00:47:07,250 --> 00:47:08,834
that what he was telling me
896
00:47:08,918 --> 00:47:11,834
in response to my questions
were lies.
897
00:47:14,584 --> 00:47:16,334
I said to him,
898
00:47:16,417 --> 00:47:20,334
"Chester, if you really
believe you're innocent,
899
00:47:20,417 --> 00:47:23,250
why did you confess?"
900
00:47:23,334 --> 00:47:26,500
He said that Dummett
and Hess told him,
901
00:47:26,584 --> 00:47:29,083
if he didn't confess,
902
00:47:29,167 --> 00:47:32,417
they would do something
harmful to his wife.
903
00:47:32,500 --> 00:47:35,542
And then, I reversed gears
and said,
904
00:47:35,626 --> 00:47:37,167
"But your alibi is
905
00:47:37,250 --> 00:47:40,834
"that you were writing
a love letter to another woman
906
00:47:40,918 --> 00:47:44,209
who you said you were
in love with at the time."
907
00:47:44,292 --> 00:47:46,375
And he had no answer for that.
908
00:47:46,459 --> 00:47:48,292
I mean, he, he
didn't have an alibi.
909
00:47:48,375 --> 00:47:51,626
The alibi that he presented
was that he was alone,
910
00:47:51,709 --> 00:47:56,334
alone writing a letter,
which can be verified
by no one.
911
00:47:58,334 --> 00:48:01,918
Through questioning Weger,
I wanted to show
912
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,500
that the confession was
corroborated by other evidence.
913
00:48:05,584 --> 00:48:07,209
So, I would say to him,
914
00:48:07,292 --> 00:48:09,792
"How did you know
about the red airplane?"
915
00:48:09,876 --> 00:48:11,250
(airplane flying over)
916
00:48:11,334 --> 00:48:14,792
Steve:
The key to the whole confession
is the airplane.
917
00:48:14,876 --> 00:48:18,209
After he had killed
the three women,
918
00:48:18,292 --> 00:48:21,250
he moved the bodies
up to a little overhang,
a cave-like area.
919
00:48:21,334 --> 00:48:25,375
Uh, Hess and Dummett ask him
a very important question,
"Why'd you move the bodies?"
920
00:48:25,459 --> 00:48:28,459
-(airplane flying over)
-He hears a sound.
921
00:48:28,542 --> 00:48:30,209
And he looks up,
922
00:48:30,292 --> 00:48:34,918
and he's seen a red and white
airplane flying over.
923
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,584
He thinks it might be
one of the Illinois
State Police planes,
924
00:48:38,667 --> 00:48:41,500
so he intentionally moves
'em into the cave here
925
00:48:41,584 --> 00:48:44,459
to prevent any
aerial identification.
926
00:48:44,542 --> 00:48:49,083
So then, I said,
"Well, I guess we better find
that red and white plane,"
927
00:48:49,167 --> 00:48:52,918
so go out to the Ottawa Airport.
928
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,834
There was a red
and white plane.
929
00:48:55,918 --> 00:48:57,959
Steve:
They call the pilot.
930
00:48:58,042 --> 00:49:01,083
The pilot confirms he flew
over Starved Rock State Park
931
00:49:01,167 --> 00:49:02,667
on March 14th.
932
00:49:02,751 --> 00:49:07,459
If Weger wasn't here, how did
he know about the airplane?
933
00:49:08,959 --> 00:49:12,500
I don't see any way
to explain that.
934
00:49:12,584 --> 00:49:17,459
In fact, there was a carving
that they found in the cave...
935
00:49:17,542 --> 00:49:18,500
said, "Rocky."
936
00:49:18,584 --> 00:49:20,626
They called him Rocky.
937
00:49:22,500 --> 00:49:25,042
Anthony:
We had the circumstantial
evidence,
938
00:49:25,125 --> 00:49:26,918
we had the confessions,
939
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:30,542
and we had truth on our side.
940
00:49:30,626 --> 00:49:32,542
Chester Weger
was given a fair trial,
941
00:49:32,626 --> 00:49:36,375
and was convicted,
not by Tony Raccuglia,
not by Harland Warren,
942
00:49:36,459 --> 00:49:39,709
but a jury of 12 peers.
943
00:49:39,792 --> 00:49:42,083
We argued
for the death penalty,
944
00:49:42,167 --> 00:49:44,083
and then, the jury
came back with life.
945
00:49:44,167 --> 00:49:47,542
We couldn't tell the jury
that if he got life,
946
00:49:47,626 --> 00:49:52,459
it wasn't life,
that he could be out
in 11 years with parole.
947
00:49:55,918 --> 00:49:58,125
(Reporter 1 speaking)
948
00:50:01,584 --> 00:50:03,000
Reporter 2:
You don't call this lucky?
949
00:50:03,042 --> 00:50:04,125
No, sir, I don't.
950
00:50:04,209 --> 00:50:06,584
Reporter 2:
Well, who framed you, Chester?
951
00:50:18,167 --> 00:50:20,876
Anthony:
I'm always contacted
by the parole board
952
00:50:20,959 --> 00:50:24,209
when Chester Weger
applies for parole.
953
00:50:24,292 --> 00:50:26,959
What do I want to say?
954
00:50:27,042 --> 00:50:32,542
And, of course, I wanna say
I never wanna see Chester Weger
walk the streets.
955
00:50:34,459 --> 00:50:38,083
Kathy:
You know, growing up,
I think we felt some safety
956
00:50:38,167 --> 00:50:41,375
that he would be in prison
for his whole life,
957
00:50:41,459 --> 00:50:44,709
and then we learned
that there was gonna be
a parole hearing,
958
00:50:44,792 --> 00:50:46,709
and it was outrageous.
959
00:50:46,792 --> 00:50:50,792
Just seemed unfathomable
that they would let him
out of prison.
960
00:50:50,876 --> 00:50:52,542
I mean, he murdered three women.
961
00:50:52,626 --> 00:50:55,959
How, how could he ever
be let out of prison?
962
00:50:56,042 --> 00:50:57,792
He was given a life sentence.
963
00:50:57,876 --> 00:50:59,417
That's just not right.
964
00:51:00,876 --> 00:51:03,334
Rod:
...might be able to stay
in the studio.
965
00:51:03,417 --> 00:51:06,292
I'm Rod Thorson,
and live on WLPO
966
00:51:06,375 --> 00:51:07,918
is attorney Anthony Raccuglia.
967
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,500
Tony, now we know you've
been a staunch advocate
968
00:51:10,584 --> 00:51:12,459
for keeping Chester Weger
behind bars.
969
00:51:12,542 --> 00:51:15,292
Uh, he comes up
almost every year now,
doesn't he, for parole?
970
00:51:15,375 --> 00:51:17,918
Anthony (on phone):
Yeah, this thing really
disturbs me because
971
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,751
the fact of the matter is,
he's 74 years old.
972
00:51:20,834 --> 00:51:23,959
There's a lot of 74-year-old
people that kill people.
973
00:51:24,042 --> 00:51:26,209
Right after
the verdict came in...
974
00:51:29,125 --> 00:51:31,334
-Rod: Hmm.
-Anthony: Now, I'm not
interested in being
975
00:51:31,417 --> 00:51:35,292
a part of a revenge
situation from Mr. Weger
976
00:51:35,375 --> 00:51:37,751
if he gets out of prison,
me or my family.
977
00:51:37,834 --> 00:51:42,167
-Rod: Right.
-Anthony: So, you know,
the truth is, keep him there.
978
00:51:48,584 --> 00:51:51,250
David:
Think it was three years
into the making,
979
00:51:51,334 --> 00:51:54,500
I received a letter
from Chester Weger
980
00:51:54,584 --> 00:51:57,626
saying he would allow
me to interview him,
981
00:51:57,709 --> 00:51:59,792
and then, I would have to
go through the process
982
00:51:59,876 --> 00:52:02,417
of filming in
Menard Correctional Center.
983
00:52:02,500 --> 00:52:05,500
And, you know,
Menard is not, uh, an easy...
984
00:52:05,584 --> 00:52:08,626
It's not like...
You don't walk in, and...
with cameras and a crew.
985
00:52:08,709 --> 00:52:10,959
There's a lot
of criminals there
986
00:52:11,042 --> 00:52:13,792
that have committed
mass murders.
987
00:52:13,876 --> 00:52:16,459
It's a very rough prison.
988
00:52:22,417 --> 00:52:24,918
This is everything
I worked for.
989
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:28,626
I really was ready
for that interview.
990
00:52:28,709 --> 00:52:33,584
But when that date finally came,
I was in panic.
991
00:52:33,667 --> 00:52:37,834
There's a guy pointing
a rifle at me up in the tower,
992
00:52:37,918 --> 00:52:39,667
and I didn't sleep
the night before,
993
00:52:39,751 --> 00:52:42,626
and the, the closer
I got to the prison,
994
00:52:42,709 --> 00:52:45,542
the more panicky
I started to get.
995
00:52:45,626 --> 00:52:47,876
I mean, I-I'll have
to be very honest,
996
00:52:47,959 --> 00:52:49,876
I think it was, probably,
997
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,292
one of the most
fearful moments I've had.
998
00:52:53,375 --> 00:52:56,417
You know, it wasn't that I was
scared he was gonna harm me.
999
00:52:56,500 --> 00:53:00,375
I kinda wanted him
to like me, I guess.
1000
00:53:00,459 --> 00:53:02,500
I wanted him to trust me.
1001
00:53:07,792 --> 00:53:10,918
Chester was put
in this little side room,
1002
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:14,459
and one of my producers
said, "He's ready."
1003
00:53:18,292 --> 00:53:23,375
I was going to film
my boogieman, Chester Weger.
1004
00:53:25,751 --> 00:53:29,584
The one thing I remember is
the look on Chester's face.
1005
00:53:35,334 --> 00:53:39,667
Chester, I'm glad you, finally,
decided to talk to me.
1006
00:53:39,751 --> 00:53:43,792
How has, how has your life
been the last 46 years?
1007
00:53:43,876 --> 00:53:48,876
How, how have you survived
being in prison knowing that...
1008
00:53:48,959 --> 00:53:51,500
all that you know
in regards to your...
1009
00:53:51,584 --> 00:53:54,000
Let me, let me say
that one more time.
I'm sorry, I said it terribly.
1010
00:53:54,083 --> 00:53:56,500
I couldn't talk at first.
1011
00:53:57,834 --> 00:53:59,751
I was stumbling with my words,
1012
00:53:59,834 --> 00:54:03,667
and I-I'm sure he could sense,
you know, the nerves.
1013
00:54:03,751 --> 00:54:05,792
I, I was very, very nervous.
1014
00:54:05,876 --> 00:54:09,334
How has your life been
being in prison?
1015
00:54:09,417 --> 00:54:12,542
I don't know,
I, I come to the penitentiary,
1016
00:54:12,626 --> 00:54:14,959
and when you first
come in the penitentiary,
1017
00:54:15,042 --> 00:54:18,542
it's, it's, it's
kinda scary at first,
1018
00:54:18,626 --> 00:54:22,209
but I got, I've got used
to it, you know?
1019
00:54:22,292 --> 00:54:26,500
I go through every day
living one day to the next,
1020
00:54:26,584 --> 00:54:29,500
knowing I'm innocent, or...
1021
00:54:30,417 --> 00:54:32,167
trying to prove my innocence.
1022
00:54:32,250 --> 00:54:34,876
That's what I've
always known, uh,
1023
00:54:34,959 --> 00:54:38,459
and I know that someday
that people will realize this,
1024
00:54:38,542 --> 00:54:41,000
and I will be out of prison.
1025
00:54:42,584 --> 00:54:46,918
David:
Why did you decide now
is a good time to talk to us?
1026
00:55:04,459 --> 00:55:09,209
My mother died in 2000.
I lost my father in '96.
1027
00:55:09,292 --> 00:55:13,083
My kids, you know,
they, they had no father.
1028
00:55:13,167 --> 00:55:15,292
My wife died.
1029
00:55:17,334 --> 00:55:21,292
David:
The confession is
why you're in prison.
1030
00:55:21,375 --> 00:55:23,083
Why did you sign it?
1031
00:55:23,167 --> 00:55:26,167
(Chester speaking)
1032
00:56:04,959 --> 00:56:09,542
At least people will know
what they've done to me.
1033
00:56:12,667 --> 00:56:15,667
If I have to die in prison...
1034
00:56:17,834 --> 00:56:20,959
people at least know
what they've done.
1035
00:56:25,626 --> 00:56:29,542
I said they, they can't
hurt me no more.
1036
00:56:29,626 --> 00:56:32,167
They done all they
could do to me.
1037
00:56:32,250 --> 00:56:34,542
The only thing
I can do now is die.
1038
00:56:34,626 --> 00:56:39,000
They took everything I had,
everything I ever wanted.
1039
00:56:42,626 --> 00:56:45,584
David:
I expected this man
to be arrogant and mean,
1040
00:56:45,667 --> 00:56:50,918
and I really saw
the humanity in him.
1041
00:56:52,083 --> 00:56:54,709
I never killed these people.
1042
00:56:56,209 --> 00:56:59,250
David:
I was emotionally distraught
for Chester Weger.
1043
00:56:59,334 --> 00:57:02,167
And the first thing I wanted
to do was speak to my father.
1044
00:57:02,250 --> 00:57:04,751
I said, "Dad, come on."
1045
00:57:04,834 --> 00:57:08,709
Do you really believe that I
would ask for the death penalty
1046
00:57:08,792 --> 00:57:10,459
if I didn't think
they were guilty,
1047
00:57:10,542 --> 00:57:13,500
and didn't have the evidence
to convince me they were guilty?
1048
00:57:13,584 --> 00:57:16,834
Well, I mean, I think
you believe in your heart
1049
00:57:16,918 --> 00:57:18,042
that he was guilty,
1050
00:57:18,125 --> 00:57:19,542
I mean, I...
People are wrong.
1051
00:57:19,626 --> 00:57:24,083
If there's information that
might make this man innocent,
1052
00:57:24,167 --> 00:57:26,083
I wanted to expose
it to the world.
1053
00:57:26,167 --> 00:57:28,083
Cameraperson:
Perfect, Chester, right there.
1054
00:57:28,167 --> 00:57:32,751
David:
This very tidy case that
my father told me about,
1055
00:57:32,834 --> 00:57:35,042
a man confessed,
he went to jail,
1056
00:57:35,125 --> 00:57:39,250
turned out to be a ten-year
rollercoaster ride for me.
1057
00:57:44,250 --> 00:57:47,375
(pensive music playing)
87984
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