All language subtitles for the.confession.tapes.s01e01.1080p.web.x264-strife

They're comin' to lock your ass up.

Yours and your friend's.

Now, if you want my help...

you have to do as I say,
and things are gonna be done proper.

If you don't want it,
you can tell me right now...

- and you're gonna deny ever knowing me.
- Well, I want your help.

It's gonna save you
and your friend's ass from jail.

- But you're gonna pay me in the end.
- Yeah.

Fuck, you got yourself
in a pile of shit, man.

How'd you fucking do three people at once?

Tell me what went on, and I'll tell you
how I'll take care of your problem.

- What are you reporting?
- Uh, there's, uh...

I need, uh, an ambulance.

Okay.
What's the problem there?

There's been some kind
of break-in. I...

Okay, well, just calm down.
What's the problem?

The... The two...

My friend, his mom and dad...

are...

We think they're dead.

- Just calm down.
- I don't think it's safe here.

- I want... We'll be outside.
- Okay, go ahead and go outside.

- Please, fast! Okay?
- They're on the way.

- Okay.
- They're on the way.

- We'll be outside.
- Okay, go ahead.

Approximately 2:30 in the morning,
I got a phone call.

My boss asked me to respond
to the Rafay residence,

which was in the Somerset area
of Bellevue.

They had just moved in,
so there was a lot of boxes.

In the family room downstairs, we found
Mrs. Rafay facedown on the ground.

She had blunt force trauma to the head.

From that room,
we went upstairs to Dr. Rafay's room.

There was blood spatter, brain matter...

The entire room was covered in debris
from the murder of Dr. Rafay.

And then we went into Basma Rafay's room,
the daughter of Dr. Rafay.

She was still alive.

And she later died
at the hospital that morning.

The two people that found them
were Atif Rafay, the son,

and his best friend, Sebastian Burns.

They were our only witnesses.

When they took them down
to the police department,

that was the first time

that it was kind of an eye-opener
as to who these people really were.

At the time, we didn't understand
how the world worked.

I don't know how to describe it.

But when you're a teenager,
anything seems possible.

We started dating in grade 12

and dated throughout
first year of college.

Sebastian, he was bright.

He was a good student
but a lazy student.

He was someone who liked to talk

and debate and share
and tell you how he felt.

And then Atif, he was such an achiever.

His parents were highly educated.
She had a master's degree.

And Dr. Rafay
had his doctorate in engineering.

So both of Atif's parents
were very accomplished.

I think that they're the reason
that he went to a school like Cornell.

That's what was expected of him,
and he was happy to fulfill that role.

Atif's sister had been disabled
by a childhood bout of spinal meningitis.

And so, Atif's mother
really looked after her.

Sebastian and Atif were very good friends.

And they were guys that didn't look like
they would be friends with each other.

These guys are culturally different.
They're an odd pair.

The Rafay family
lived in North Vancouver.

So they had just moved to Bellevue.

And Sebastian had been living
in Vancouver.

And he actually visited Atif.

Atif had been attending
Cornell University.

It was his mom who actually had been
calling saying, "Come down and visit."

So they had been in the house
for five days.

And then this one night that they actually
went out, then this tragedy happens.

So we took an entire statement
from Burns and Rafay.

In checking those alibis,
everybody remembered them.

They left their home
about 8:30 in the evening.

They went down to a Keg restaurant,
and after they went there,

they went across the street
to The Lion King, to watch a movie.

Loren, you're employed
by the Factoria Cinemas.

- Is that correct?
- Yeah.

And one of those persons
you said you recognized?

I'm almost positive that I saw him
'cause he was wearing an army jacket.

How certain are you
of the guy?

I'm positive I saw him.

After they went to The Lion King,
they said they went over to Seattle.

Drove over there to an all-night diner.

And you recall
seeing these guys before?

Yeah, they asked
about the clubs in the area,

and one wanted to know
what time it closed.

And after they left there,
they went to find a club.

And after they left the club,
they then came home.

People act differently
when they've seen trauma.

But they acted very strange.

Atif Rafay, he was just very nonchalant
about what had happened.

He had saw his mom, she was dead.

He ran upstairs, found his dad.
There wasn't anything he could do.

He heard his sister
in the room next door to his dad.

I said, "Well, did you check on her?"
And he says, "No, I didn't check on her."

"Why wouldn't you check on her
if you knew she was alive?"

And he said, "Well, I...
There was nothing I could do."

In fact, I think he even said,
"I can't even put on a Band-Aid, okay?

All I know is somebody had taken
my Walkman,"

from a shelf in his room.

And a VCR was missing
from the family room.

You just saw your dad slaughtered.
You just saw your mom slaughtered.

And you're telling me
that someone stole your Walkman?

And Sebastian Burns, he was very put out
about even having to talk to police.

He was feeling that,
"I already talked to the police.

I already told them what happened."

It became clear.
It's like, "He's been up all night.

He's probably tired.
He just saw a horrific murder scene.

What we need to do is wrap this up."

So we put them up in a hotel,

gave them our pager numbers
and our contact numbers,

and said, "We'll be in touch with you.
Let's get some sleep."

I didn't know exactly
when they were gonna come home.

Their plans were a little loose.
So I had been phoning the Burns house.

And... one morning, um,

my parents woke me up.

They told me that they had read
in the newspaper

that Atif's family had been murdered.

And it occurred to me
that the Burns may not know.

So I phoned Mr. Burns.

And he answered the phone,
and he sort of joked

and said, "Sebastian isn't home yet."

And I said...
I was sort of sobbing into the phone,

and I said, "You haven't heard."

Sebastian finally called us around...
It was after nine o'clock in the evening.

And I said,
"Hi. Are you...? What's your status?

Like, are you in custody
or anything of that nature?"

And he said, "No, we're in a motel."

So I said, "Well, I, you know...

I think I'd like to come down
and pick you guys up and bring you

'cause I guess you can't go back
to the house.

So you've got no place to stay."

And he said, "No, we can't leave
without letting the police know."

As soon as the murders happened,
they were taken in

by the Bellevue Police Department
and sequestered.

They were in a dingy motel room
for three days

and just questioned at the Bellevue
police's discretion for that time period.

Initially, when you're taking
these statements,

you're just kinda, like,
getting this information.

But, as you're kinda sitting back
and looking at it again,

you go, "I wanna take
another look at this.

Something isn't making any sense."

Sebastian Burns
makes the 911 call.

There's been
some kind of break-in!

Those words weren't very significant
to me in the beginning.

A break-in... refers to a burglary
of some sort, not a murder.

And when you look at this home,
it was a staged burglary.

In a room that Sebastian Burns
was staying in, there were legal boxes.

So when you first walk in,
it looks like somebody had been rummaging

through documents and things.

But if you really look closely at it,
the boxes hadn't been gone through at all.

They'd just been knocked over.

And then you take the alibi,
The Keg restaurant.

And the waiter there goes, "Oh, yeah.

Definitely remember them because
they ordered a salad and some wine."

I think they were ordering wine
so that the guy would ask for ID

and remember that there was two Canadians
that came in here

and ordered wine with a salad.

At the all-night diner in Seattle,
they remembered them there

because the waitress said that they
ordered just a Coke and some fries.

"And they left me a ten-dollar tip."

And when they went to The Weathered Wall,
which was a nightclub,

that guy remembered them because he said,
"I looked at my watch, 20 minutes to 2:00.

We were just getting ready to close."
He said, "I wouldn't let 'em in."

It's all these little pieces
that you start putting--

Individually, they're not too meaningful.

But you start putting them all together
and you have a very organized plan

on how they were going to commit a murder.

The next day, we went
to locate them, went to the hotel,

and they were just gone.

Carol had the moxie to phone
the Canadian consulate

to make sure that the Bellevue police
had, indeed, been consulted

about this move back to Vancouver.

And they had.

Once they got home,

the Bellevue police leaked...

not leaked...

...told the press
that Sebastian and Atif had fled,

which was the first of many
dirty tactics that sent the signal

that this was not gonna go well.

So we reported in the media...
No, we didn't report in the media.

So...

It was reported in the media
that Burns and Rafay had fled to Canada.

And, for all I knew, they were fleeing,

they were getting away from Bellevue,
basically, as fast as they can.

But, to be frank with you...

at the time, we didn't have any reason
not to let 'em go to...

I mean, we... They were free to go
wherever they wanted.

But they were just gone.

They got back here
around five o'clock.

We had the television news on
from Seattle at that time

because I'd been trying to follow
what had been going on.

And...

blow me down,
it was coverage of the funeral.

Members of the Rafay family
gathered at the Northgate Mosque today.

Rafay's 18-year-old son,
who found the bodies, was not there

and has declined to speak.

Atif was just-- I'd never seen him
with that much of an emotional outburst.

He just said, "Those bastards!"

Clearly upset that he hadn't participated
in the ceremony

for the interment of his entire family.

And the cops had just not told him.

Can I just interrupt?
He flew at the TV, screaming,

when he found out his father
and mother and sister had been buried

without him even knowing
there was a funeral.

Everybody who's remotely familiar
with the Muslim faith knows

you must bury the dead in three days.

And the family members are responsible
for washing the bodies

and preparing them for burial.

The notion that Atif Rafay
didn't have any idea about that

is the craziest bunch of bullshit
I've ever heard in my life.

That's just one funeral, by the way.

There was also a memorial service
in British Columbia some months later.

And Sebastian Burns and Atif Rafay
went to the building.

As they walked up the door,
a news reporter asked them the question:

Atif, why won't you
talk to the police?

Atif, why won't you talk to the police?

And with that question,
they turned around, laughing,

ran back to the parking lot...

get into a car.

And they drove away.

Seeing that kind of thing,
right away, you think,

"Oh, these guys,
they must be murderers.

They don't care about the killing."

When, in fact, that's an example
of the way kids behave

after terrible, shocking events.

You could see there was stuff going on
that was completely inappropriate.

But if you're gonna be a serious killer,

the first thing you're gonna do
is stand by the grave and cry.

When I see the way they were behaving,

I think these guys,
A, were a couple of goofballs.

But, B, they were in shock
at what had happened.

And there's no standard of behavior
after something like that.

Why would Atif Rafay come home
and murder his entire family?

That, on the face of it,
seemed very odd and unusual

and compelling, as a journalist.

Ninety-eight percent
of the reporters and the coverage

was very, very skeptical
of their innocence.

And that was all of these doubts
and information

that was sort of seeded by police.

They were absolutely demonized
in the press.

They became
just criminal mastermind archetypes.

They weren't the stupid kids
that we knew them to be.

They were... They were
evil geniuses in the press.

And it inspired a lot of hatred
in the public.

When we were trying to learn
about who Burns and Rafay are,

we saw in his high school yearbook,
he was in a play called The Rope

about two college kids
who commit the perfect murder.

I mean, that does grab your attention.

And so, I went out and rented the movie.

And I... To me, I was shocked

at even how closely they physically
resembled Burns and Rafay in the movie.

And the fact that they were involved
in Nietzsche and philosophies.

These were very well-read boys.

Atif sent me many essays
that he has written.

So I was very impressed
by his writing style, especially,

and his literary mind.

I developed a crush on him, I would say.

And then, over time,
we have become a couple.

The aspects of Nietzsche
that were appealing to them

were just things about freedom of spirit
and freedom of thought

and very beautiful philosophies
that I think a lot of people love

if they actually take the time to read it.

As I understood, Nietzsche believed in...
that there was a superman theory...

where there were people
who were elevated above others.

And they were superior beings to others.

And, from what I know
of Sebastian Burns and Atif Rafay...

I think they fit into that,
and I think they believed that.

They had characters
that people were put off by.

The Bellevue police didn't want
these two guys to get the better of them.

The motive, of course, the police said,
was money and life insurance.

As I recall there were
three policies.

Now, the American policy
paid off right away.

And we called and said,
"Hey, they're suspects in a murder case."

They go, "Have they been charged?"
"No." "Then we're paying."

And, sure enough, they did seem to go
on a bit of a spending spree, those two.

They purchased a Mustang convertible
and went on sort of a road trip.

Again, not exactly what you might expect,
but they chose to do it.

The RCMP,
or the Royal Canadian Mounted Police,

they are the equivalent of the FBI.

At some point, they learned
that in the United States,

three murders had been committed

presumably by two Canadian citizens,

and a determination was made

that they should open
their own investigation.

Burns and Rafay were living with
their high school friend, Jimmy Miyoshi,

blaring their music
and staying up all night.

The RCMP had put wires in the house

so that they could listen
to their conversations.

It didn't take long for them to figure out

that the suspects, the targets
in their investigation, were bright kids.

And that led them to come
to the conclusion

that traditional police methods
were not going to work with these two.

The Royal Canadian
Mounted Police

developed an undercover
investigative technique

called "The Mr. Big Technique,"

that they deploy or they use,
normally, in cold murder cases.

But they have a suspect.

They just don't have enough evidence
to lay charge.

What they'll do is,
the police officers disguise themselves

as underworld figures.

Eventually, the target becomes aware
that he's dealing

with what he thinks are criminals.

They'll get to a point where they'll say,

"Gee, we overheard somewhere
that you're suspected of a murder."

And they'll tell their target
that he's got a meeting with Mr. Big.

And Mr. Big is the head
of the criminal organization.

And the crime boss
starts telling them things like,

"We know that you committed a murder.

And now you've put our whole organization
in jeopardy by associating with us.

So just tell us what happened.
Tell us what happened."

These undercover sting operations
take months to unfold.

And they've got one mission.

And that mission
is to extract a confession.

Once I became familiar with the operation
that was conducted in this case,

it was then that I got
to know Gary and Al.

They are extraordinarily talented.
They are very dedicated.

And they make a very complicated job
look extremely easy.

Once the wire is in the house,
there are people who are listening to it.

And they just heard them say...

"Burns is getting his hair cut at Crimpers
at four o'clock on Tuesday."

So they have people in place
to follow him when he leaves.

They see where he parks his car.

That allows the undercover operators
to position their vehicle next to him.

And so that when he comes out,
just, out of the blue,

he walks up and there is the undercover
operator, Gary, waiting for him.

Gary told Burns that he had locked
his keys in his car

and asked if he could help him out.

"Would you mind giving me a ride?"

He'll give him $100 for his time.
Burns says, "No problem."

And Gary convinces Sebastian
to go down to the bar and have a drink.

And they start a conversation.

If there's fuckin'--
If there's money to be made...

- Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
- You know?

I'd fuckin' much easier make...

- five bucks doin' this than doin' that.
- Yeah.

But the thing is,
you make a dollar doin' this.

- You make a hundred dollars doin' that.
- Yeah.

You gotta fuckin' weigh your options,
you know?

Well...

You're a fuckin' young,
unemployed kid.

You're gonna now fuckin' do
some big-time opportunities

without knowing
you're capable of doing them.

Yeah, I understand.

For the next four months,

Gary and Al introduced different scenarios
that allowed Burns to believe

that these two were involved
in a criminal enterprise.

And all of that was done to dissuade them
of any notion that they might have

that Gary and Al were cops.

What do you think we're into?

I don't know.
I guess cars, guns, drugs, heists.

I don't know.
How many crimes can I think of?

No, you're looking
at it wrong right there.

You're looking at it as crimes.
It's not crimes.

They're fucking opportunities.

And, on a couple of those scenarios,
Miyoshi was along with Burns.

For example,
they brought a bag full of cash down.

They had Jimmy Miyoshi and Burns
counting the money,

making sure they put it in piles
of less than $10,000.

Another scenario had
an undercover operator come in

and throw two guns on the counter.

He says, "Don't touch those.

They're a little 'warm,'
if you know what I mean."

If he's gonna use it, tell him to
throw it into the salt right away,

'cause she's pretty hot, like she's...

I don't mean hot stolen, I mean...
still warm. You know what I'm sayin'?

So, one of the occasions,
Gary took Burns to a situation

where he went inside and, you know,

allowed Burns to believe that he had beat
the hell outta some guy who was inside,

scuffed his knuckles up on the carpet.

They were allowed to believe
that violence could be used,

if necessary, to conduct their business.

They were allowed to believe that if they
had to kill somebody, they would.

I'll tell ya somethin' else.

You wanted to know
what I fuckin' did my time for?

I fuckin' toasted a guy.
You know how I-- fuckin' how solid Al is?

When it came time for fuckin' court,
the person that could finger me?

They're not around anymore.

Sebastian didn't have the same kind
of knowledge or savoir faire

that Atif did.

And he can't see
other people being deceptive.

He was not able to gauge
the situation very well.

And... the RCMP understood
who the better target was.

I've read about you lots
in the last fuckin' week.

Because I made a point
to find out about you.

You know something?
That's why you're here tonight.

So, what I've read about you
says you're a fuckin' smart man.

- Yup.
- That's what I want.

Sebastian was seen as a killer.

And other people actually suspected
up here that he was.

And he didn't have much of a life.

He couldn't get a job
or anything like that.

So when he's approached
by these mobsters that said,

"We'll be able to help you out.
You can become part of this gang,"

it's attractive to him.

You're either gonna
fuckin' work for me...

and fuckin' get involved makin' money...

and it'll be total fuckin' trust...

where you don't fuck me
and I don't fuck you.

At some point, they said to him,

"You... are gonna have to tell us
about what you did down in Washington."

What's your role
in that triple homicide?

They think that
I am the murderer.

Why?

Because they didn't have
anyone else.

- Because, uh...
- What's that?

Because we were at the house
for a few days,

and they don't have any other leads.

And it's not...
I'm not worried about it because...

forensically or whatever,
they don't have a particular big case.

But... they made it into a big deal.

Sebastian denied many, many times

that he had anything to do
with the killing of the Rafays.

But they were gangsters.
And he wanted to impress them.

Okay, stop
the fuckin' bullshit there.

Stop the bullshit there.

Right now, you're out-and-out
fucking lying to me.

I'm not goddamn lying to you.

The fuckin' report
I fuckin' read...

fuckin' basically spells out
black-and-white...

that the police fuckin' know
you killed these people.

So I'm not putting up with this bullshit.

You're lying to me now or fucking, uh...

you come back
and found these fuckin' bodies.

You must think I come down
with last night's rain.

Maybe you start thinkin' that
about me...

And this fucking...

You're misunderstanding me, okay?
You're misunderstanding. All right?

Then make it clear
so I won't misunderstand you.

Because... I'm not having fuckin'
my ass get bit here.

The other evidence that was flowing in,
at the very time,

not just, "Oh, there's these two
strange kids sitting in front of me.

They must've done it,"

real, solid evidence was coming in.

There was a suggestion
that Atif Rafay's family

was murdered
by a fundamentalist Islamic person,

who took offense to Mr. Rafay's
more moderate stance on Islam.

Atif's father had given lectures
and speeches and...

about Islam in the Western context.

And, apparently, that had offended
some people who were,

you know,
more conservative Muslims.

And the police did have some information
pointing them in that direction.

As an engineer,
he discovered a miscalculation.

Tariq Rafay had a theory
about True East

being a degree or two different

than what Muslims in this country,

and perhaps all over the world,
were... were practicing.

But Tariq was suggesting
they should move their prayer mats,

the one or one-and-a-half degree,
when they say their prayers.

He discovered that the mosques
in Canada were not facing Mecca.

In the eyes of a fundamentalist, perhaps,

that would have been upsetting
the apple cart.

There were
three categories of tips

that came in to the Bellevue police
shortly after the murder.

These were leads that were endorsed
by other police organizations.

One of the tips was a Canadian
RCMP officer named Galina.

He said that his informant

told him
that there was a hit ordered

on a Pakistani family
living in Bellevue, Washington.

And he said he received that information
before the Rafay family was murdered.

So once he learned of the murders,

he thought,
"Oh, I have relevant information."

And he went down to the Bellevue police
and told them about this.

The next tip was the Seattle
police, who contacted the Bellevue police

and told them that they believed
an organization called Al-Fuqra

was involved in the death of the Rafays.

Al-Fuqra is a U.S.-based
terrorist organization.

It's inconceivable to me
that somebody would come in

and beat the brains out of three
human beings over one man's belief

that True East was one-and-a-half degrees
off on the compass.

The killing of the Rafay family
was so vicious.

In my view, it has nothing to do
with Islam or the Muslim religion.

I think it has to do with the way people
take these ideas to an extreme.

It's extremism.

That kind of violence related
to this community and that area

was probably just very alien
to Detective Thompson.

And it didn't resonate with him.

And he probably didn't really know
how to follow up on it.

In the post 9/11 world,

would they have pursued this line
of investigative inquiry?

Almost certainly they would have
pursued it with more vigor.

But this took place years before 9/11,
and they didn't go there.

The best quality information
that's ever come forward on this case

was the FBI contacted the Bellevue Police
and informed them

that one of their informants
had information about the Rafay murders

and was going to come
to the Bellevue Police Department

and give that information.

The FBI informant told them
that he, himself, personally knew

an imam who lived in the area

who had ordered the murder
of Dr. Rafay and his family.

And he knew the two men

that he says actually went
and committed the murders.

Then he went on to tell them
that he was with one of those men.

And the man opened the trunk of his car...

and the informant saw a baseball bat.

And because of the way this guy behaved,

the informant drew the conclusion
that that was the murder weapon.

That was only a few days
after the murders.

The Bellevue police, at that time,

did not know that the Rafays
were killed with a baseball bat.

Some months later, the Bellevue police,
through sound recreations...

determined that the Rafay family
was murdered with a baseball bat.

That's not a coincidence.

And this FBI informant did not come
to them with vague information.

He gave them the names of the people

that he believed were responsible
for these murders.

He gave where they worked.
He gave their addresses.

He gave phone numbers.
He also provided them with photographs.

I think that's one of the most
appalling things about this case to me

is that they did not take
that information more seriously.

They kind of described
this informant dismissively

as if he were crazy or something
because he gave them a long list of names.

But if you're talking
about an entire extremist organization,

there's probably going to be
a long list of names.

And maybe you should follow up
on some of those names.

But that was not done.

In every murder case,
people come forward

with information all the time.

Could you investigate
every single tip to the nth degree?

Yeah, you can.

But the reality is you have to come back

to where the evidence is
and follow the evidence.

And that will lead you
to the real killers.

There's all kinds of physical
and forensic evidence

that actually points away
from the two boys.

It doesn't point
to any other specific individuals

because there were no other suspects
that the police actually took seriously.

There's a couple items of DNA evidence.

So in Dr. Rafay's room,
there is a hair...

which doesn't belong to any of the victims
and not Sebastian and not Atif.

And then there's also bloodstains
in the garage of the house.

And again, the DNA in those bloodstains
don't match Sebastian, don't match Atif.

In addition, the police were able
to pinpoint the time of the murder.

They interviewed both
of the neighbors independently.

I started to think about it,

and I realized that I had heard
a hammering sound that night,

when I was up reading.

I heard, like, a construction
project next door.

I didn't really know
the neighbors that well.

The neighbors both pinpointed
the same timeframe.

I think it was about 9:30,
9:35 or so.

It could've been
a little sooner than that.

It could've been as early as 9:15.

Can you give me
a window of time

when that 20 minutes of sound
was occurring?

It would definitely be between
ten minutes to 9:00 and 9:35.

But, at that time,
Sebastian and Atif were seen,

and it has been confirmed
they were at that movie theater.

So all of this focused effort
of the police department yielded evidence

that proved Sebastian
and Atif's innocence.

You can always look
at other outside things.

But it always comes back
to Burns and Rafay.

One of the things we know
for certain is that the killer showered.

There's a chemical that we sprayed
inside that shower downstairs,

and it just lit up with blood
from Dr. Rafay.

There were 22 hairs in the bottom
of that shower, in the corners

and in the sides
and in the base of the shower.

So the last person
who showered was the killer.

And 22 hairs in that shower
belong to Sebastian Burns.

We found their underwear
in the washing machine

that had been run through a spin cycle
and it had already been washed.

It was just underwear.
And it only fit Burns and Rafay.

And we thought,
"Well, that's really strange."

But we sent that in for testing,
and there was nothing on there.

So the physical evidence
that we had in Bellevue,

it wasn't enough to arrest them.

They had these two kids in their sights,

and they were gonna put these two guys
away, by whatever means necessary.

And they chose,
with the help of Canadian police,

to use an investigative technique
that's illegal in the U.S.

The time is 6:45,
and the date is, uh...

Fuck, I don't know what the date is.

It's the 18th?

Yeah, I thought so. I didn't wanna say
the wrong thing. Okay, start over.

Okay, the time is 6:45,
July 18th, 1995...

in Victoria.

The "Estate" file.

The Bellevue police,
in coordination with the RCMP,

issued a press release about how
they were going to test the DNA.

It was not an actual reflection
of what was going on in the case.

It was to create the false world
that Mr. Big was creating for Sebastian

so that he would think
that they were going to be convicted.

So you been
reading the paper lately?

- Yeah, most of it.
- What do you think?

It's nothing new, I guess.

And that was timed
for the Mr. Big sting.

I'm gonna show you somethin'.
You never fuckin' saw this from me.

One of the last scenarios involved

the undercover operator showing them
some bogus memo

that the RCMP had prepared,
saying that there was both hair evidence

and DNA evidence that had been collected
from the crime scene.

All of which is true.

The memo said that,
as a result of this new evidence,

that they were preparing to file charges
against the two of them,

which was not true.

"Red fabric fibers found in the shower
that are mixed with Burns' hair." Like...

I mean...

That... That could have been, like,
almost from any time.

You know what I mean?
Like, 'cause I can't say that...

Obviously, they're referring
to the murder, right?

Well, no, but what I'm saying is that I...

I mean, that could have been there
from, like, two days before even.

- Like, it doesn't sound like it...
- Yeah, but hold it.

The night you showered after the murder,
did you wash yourself with red towels?

- Um... I don't even know.
- What do you mean you don't know?

I don't know, like...

I don't remember what...
what fucking color the towels were there.

Sebastian didn't understand how
there could be DNA on anything from him.

Especially if you're innocent,

why would there be any DNA found

or anything that would tie him
to the murders?

So he didn't believe it.

And he kept trying to explain
that that's impossible.

"These things didn't happen.

I don't believe that
that could be the case."

"Blood stains located in the garage."

I don't know shit about bloodstains
in the garage.

- I don't know a fucking thing.
- I don't know. You were there.

Like, if I knew,
I could fuckin' probably tell you.

I don't know, and I can't start asking
all these questions.

- Yeah.
- Until I fuckin' know.

- And that's the bottom line.
- Well, okay, but...

I mean...

There... There is this possibility
there can be things I don't know about...

That, like, they're basically...

fabricating to look like they count,
you know what I mean?

I don't believe they're sending
a report to the lab, or whatever this is

asking to fabricate fuckin' evidence.

Plenty of people are convicted
on false and bad evidence

or manipulated evidence or factoids.

Burns, by that time, was certain
that they were just targets,

that people were trying
to pin it on them, no matter what.

So if they have evidence
that is going to be used,

even though they know they're innocent,

they know they can
be convicted falsely of a crime

if people put up some kind of evidence.

So them being curious about what evidence
they have is no surprise. I would be.

I'm accused of a murder,

and I know that the police department
is coming after me, they wanna convict me.

And now this mob guy says,
"I can find out what they have."

I would wanna know,
even though I'm innocent.

You know, I...
Just some things I can't help you with,

like some stains on boxer shorts
from the washer.

I don't know what the fuck that is, okay?

If you were a suspect
in a murder case,

would you even be associating with
somebody who you think were criminals?

Or would you just like,
"Look, I didn't do anything."

Listen to me.
I've got a way.

It's all gonna be set up
to take care of the lab.

You see what I'm saying?

The memo was fake,
but then they said,

"Our thugs, our minions
with tentacles everywhere,

can get rid of that information
if you just confess."

Tell me what went on, and I'll tell
you how I'll take care of your problem.

They told them that they're
coming to get him

and then followed up with,
"You better spill it now

because we'll make sure
that you're not arrested."

So when'd you fuckin'...
do the dirty deed?

Um... during the movie.