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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:12,670 When I looked at him, 2 00:00:12,670 --> 00:00:15,230 he was just standing perfectly still 3 00:00:15,230 --> 00:00:17,500 watching the ice skaters skate. 4 00:00:17,500 --> 00:00:22,170 Just, like, dead still waiting for my friends. 5 00:00:22,170 --> 00:00:24,630 It wasn't a couple of guys, it was one guy. 6 00:00:25,900 --> 00:00:29,100 When I looked at him, it was side profile 7 00:00:29,100 --> 00:00:31,100 'cause he was just kind of looking forward. 8 00:00:31,100 --> 00:00:36,470 And what I remembered was the short, dark hair and slender build, 9 00:00:36,470 --> 00:00:39,530 and a strong nose. 10 00:00:39,530 --> 00:00:41,530 His nose looks like the nose with the dark hair and the short-- 11 00:00:41,530 --> 00:00:43,530 Yeah, I wonder... Yeah, so that's the side. 12 00:00:43,530 --> 00:00:45,270 That's what got me there, is that picture. 13 00:00:45,270 --> 00:00:49,370 He does have a pretty prominent nose and he was, like, 5'10". 14 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:53,830 He looks... I mean, I'm... 15 00:00:55,100 --> 00:00:57,630 He knew this area like the back of his hand. 16 00:00:57,630 --> 00:00:59,300 I feel like I could cry. 17 00:01:02,630 --> 00:01:04,370 I don't even know what to feel, you know? 18 00:01:05,930 --> 00:01:10,270 What do you do with information like that? 19 00:01:12,230 --> 00:01:14,070 I feel weirdly validated. 20 00:01:14,070 --> 00:01:19,570 Like, I've been working very hard for a long time to get people to listen to me. 21 00:01:19,570 --> 00:01:24,470 My mom has been working for many years to get people to listen. 22 00:01:24,470 --> 00:01:28,130 So, it was like, "Okay, I'm not crazy," 23 00:01:28,130 --> 00:01:29,670 but then in the same breath... 24 00:01:31,830 --> 00:01:33,830 I feel scared. 25 00:01:33,830 --> 00:01:39,470 Like, I'm alone in this hotel and I just feel scared by what I heard. 26 00:01:39,470 --> 00:01:45,930 Nothing could have prepared me for today when I saw Mary's face. 27 00:01:48,130 --> 00:01:50,070 And it became apparent 28 00:01:51,770 --> 00:01:57,170 how spooked and ooked and freaked out she was by Jim. 29 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:01,270 I didn't know what to do. 30 00:02:27,370 --> 00:02:28,800 Hey, girl. 31 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,430 - Good to see you. - Good to see you, too. 32 00:02:33,300 --> 00:02:34,470 - You hungry? - Yes. 33 00:02:34,470 --> 00:02:36,030 Yeah. 34 00:02:36,030 --> 00:02:40,400 {\an8}- So I've been doing all that research on Jim. - Mm-hmm. 35 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,470 {\an8}And I'm kind of getting to this point with it all 36 00:02:43,470 --> 00:02:46,370 {\an8}where I just feel like there's these pieces that I'm missing, 37 00:02:46,370 --> 00:02:48,500 {\an8}and I just wanna know what happened. 38 00:02:48,500 --> 00:02:52,170 {\an8}And it's so hard when you're going back in time 39 00:02:52,170 --> 00:02:56,330 and you're trying to figure out things 40 00:02:56,330 --> 00:02:58,470 that people don't really wanna talk about. 41 00:02:58,470 --> 00:03:01,230 I guess sometimes I feel a little awkward reaching out to people 42 00:03:01,230 --> 00:03:04,700 because it's, like, I wanna know what happened to this family 43 00:03:04,700 --> 00:03:08,100 and what happened, but I also don't want to reopen trauma 44 00:03:08,100 --> 00:03:11,500 that they've moved past and they don't want to deal with anymore 45 00:03:11,500 --> 00:03:12,970 'cause they've come to terms with it, 46 00:03:12,970 --> 00:03:17,670 so I don't wanna be the source of re-traumatizing anyone. 47 00:03:17,670 --> 00:03:19,000 Right. 48 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,600 Even talking to you, sometimes I feel like I don't wanna impose. 49 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:23,070 Like it's not my place. 50 00:03:23,070 --> 00:03:25,670 Well, I think if people are willing to do it, they're willing to do it. 51 00:03:25,670 --> 00:03:27,370 Yeah. 52 00:03:27,370 --> 00:03:30,130 And if they're not, you leave them alone. 53 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:32,000 Mm-hmm. 54 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,570 I mean, putting the pieces together will be good. 55 00:03:36,470 --> 00:03:38,800 You know, Michael would be good to talk to. 56 00:03:42,130 --> 00:03:43,400 {\an8}Michael Probst 57 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:47,870 {\an8}is Jeanne's second child from her first marriage. 58 00:03:47,870 --> 00:03:50,500 {\an8}Michael is also Christi's younger brother. 59 00:03:52,930 --> 00:03:56,130 I don't really know Michael, I know of Michael. 60 00:03:56,130 --> 00:03:58,170 I remember always wanting to meet him, 61 00:03:58,170 --> 00:04:02,170 but then there was like this barrier almost 62 00:04:02,170 --> 00:04:06,700 between myself, my mom, Christi, and Michael. 63 00:04:17,500 --> 00:04:20,570 - It's so great to finally meet you. - I know. 64 00:04:20,570 --> 00:04:23,270 Isn't it crazy that we've never met? - I know. 65 00:04:23,270 --> 00:04:24,800 - It's so bizarre. - Right. 66 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,900 {\an8}I wanted to talk to you because Christi, you know, when I talked to her... 67 00:04:27,900 --> 00:04:33,000 {\an8}With her trauma, she has a hard time remembering a lot of details 68 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,470 - about the day-to-day life of living with him. - Yeah, she does. 69 00:04:36,470 --> 00:04:39,830 How did you meet Jim? What was that like? 70 00:04:39,830 --> 00:04:43,730 He just kind of showed up one day. 71 00:04:43,730 --> 00:04:49,270 You know, he was this macho, muscular athlete. 72 00:04:49,270 --> 00:04:53,400 So he commanded power and authority. 73 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,430 My mom's like, "This is gonna be your new stepfather." 74 00:04:56,430 --> 00:04:59,500 I was like, "This guy can't be a part of my life." 75 00:04:59,500 --> 00:05:02,100 Mm-hmm. It didn't seem real almost? 76 00:05:05,070 --> 00:05:09,000 As my stepfather, he taught me how to fight. 77 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:13,570 And my first fight happened in the first grade. 78 00:05:13,570 --> 00:05:16,670 This little boy just was always kind of a bully, 79 00:05:16,670 --> 00:05:19,970 bugged me, and I told Jim that. 80 00:05:19,970 --> 00:05:22,230 And he said to me, 81 00:05:22,230 --> 00:05:24,200 "You're gonna march down to that corner 82 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,170 and you're going to punch him." 83 00:05:27,030 --> 00:05:29,130 And I was like, "I'm not doing that." 84 00:05:29,130 --> 00:05:31,770 Jim was like, "Yes, you are." 85 00:05:31,770 --> 00:05:34,770 And so I went down there and Jim followed me. 86 00:05:34,770 --> 00:05:38,070 Then I just hauled off and punched him. 87 00:05:38,070 --> 00:05:39,470 Jim's like, "Do it again." 88 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:45,430 And I kept punching him in the face, in the head. 89 00:05:45,430 --> 00:05:47,270 Jim's like, "Do it again." 90 00:05:56,070 --> 00:05:58,600 That's just not my personality. 91 00:06:01,300 --> 00:06:03,100 And I felt horrible. 92 00:06:10,070 --> 00:06:12,800 - And he thought that was fun. - Oh, he loved it. 93 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,030 - He liked to incite fear... - Mm-hmm. 94 00:06:16,030 --> 00:06:18,570 ...and see where it would register. 95 00:06:20,770 --> 00:06:25,800 Did you hear that story about the drive? - Tell me about it. 96 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:30,130 Well, when Jim took me on this ride, I don't know how I... 97 00:06:30,130 --> 00:06:33,070 I mean, I was like six or seven years old. 98 00:06:33,070 --> 00:06:35,070 We were going to the grocery store. 99 00:06:35,070 --> 00:06:36,570 And at that time, 100 00:06:36,570 --> 00:06:41,030 it was in the '70s, so there was farmlands. 101 00:06:42,100 --> 00:06:45,730 And it was July, so it was very hot. 102 00:06:46,970 --> 00:06:49,300 We were driving. 103 00:06:49,300 --> 00:06:54,230 He slowed down to show me where they found a dead body. 104 00:06:56,570 --> 00:07:00,400 And he said, "Oh, yeah, she was nude and hogtied." 105 00:07:02,030 --> 00:07:04,000 And I was like, "What?" 106 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,470 And I just remember sitting back like... 107 00:07:12,900 --> 00:07:14,570 "We need to get out of here." 108 00:07:17,870 --> 00:07:19,800 That's crazy, that story. 109 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,400 Um, I don't know if my mom had told you, 110 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,200 but there was like a set of murders up there. 111 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,870 And they were hogtied and thrown into ditches, 112 00:07:27,870 --> 00:07:32,330 and it's such a specific way of killing someone. 113 00:07:33,270 --> 00:07:37,000 You know, Jim just loved the hogtie thing. 114 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,770 But he would hogtie us with his hands. 115 00:07:39,770 --> 00:07:42,300 He was like, "I have you hogtied, how are you gonna get out?" 116 00:07:42,300 --> 00:07:45,870 And would be tickling us until we were screaming bloody murder. 117 00:07:45,870 --> 00:07:51,830 And we would be, like, coughing, gasping for air, and... 118 00:07:51,830 --> 00:07:54,000 We were children, and that's... - Yeah. 119 00:07:59,870 --> 00:08:04,730 - Just glad that that's done. - Hmm. 120 00:08:12,470 --> 00:08:14,230 What really surprised me 121 00:08:14,230 --> 00:08:18,430 was that Michael had this story of Jim driving him around 122 00:08:18,430 --> 00:08:20,930 and pointing out places that bodies were found. 123 00:08:20,930 --> 00:08:24,200 Specifically nude, young women. 124 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:28,530 He told me that story without me mentioning Santa Rosa. 125 00:08:28,530 --> 00:08:31,700 So these really specific details, it makes me go, 126 00:08:31,700 --> 00:08:36,670 "Okay, so either Jim was obsessed with this case, or he did it." 127 00:08:38,070 --> 00:08:43,170 Michael's terrifying car ride originated at Jim's family ranch. 128 00:08:43,170 --> 00:08:48,270 The Mordecai Ranch is this property in Occidental, Sebastopol, 129 00:08:48,270 --> 00:08:50,770 which is to the west of Santa Rosa. 130 00:08:50,770 --> 00:08:53,170 It was two little cabins 131 00:08:53,170 --> 00:08:57,030 on 14 acres in the middle of nowhere. 132 00:08:57,030 --> 00:08:59,670 It was so isolated, everything was so isolated. 133 00:08:59,970 --> 00:09:01,130 It's... 134 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:04,670 creepy. 135 00:09:04,670 --> 00:09:09,800 It's also where Jim raped Val Richie. 136 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:14,170 I think I'm gonna try to go the ranch and just see how far that is 137 00:09:14,170 --> 00:09:19,730 from where the Santa Rosa hitchhikers' bodies were found and what the terrain is like. 138 00:09:20,570 --> 00:09:23,130 I mean, it seems totally plausible on a map 139 00:09:23,130 --> 00:09:28,870 that Jim could have picked these girls up on the 101 140 00:09:28,870 --> 00:09:31,530 and then taken them to Sebastopol or whatever, let's just say, 141 00:09:31,530 --> 00:09:33,570 or just, like, done his business and dumped them 142 00:09:33,570 --> 00:09:35,430 and gone back to Sebastopol. 143 00:09:38,030 --> 00:09:42,100 This is, I mean, just so thick. 144 00:09:42,900 --> 00:09:44,370 So wooded. 145 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:50,530 Look at all this. 146 00:09:51,500 --> 00:09:53,100 Holy shit. 147 00:09:53,870 --> 00:09:55,300 It's, like, right there. 148 00:09:56,830 --> 00:10:00,330 I am not getting out of this car alone in this heavily wooded area. 149 00:10:00,330 --> 00:10:04,500 I don't... I have a very overwhelming feeling right now. 150 00:10:04,500 --> 00:10:10,600 Being here is all making much more sense rather than staring at a map. 151 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:15,100 {\an8}I'm like right around where Kim Allen had been found. 152 00:10:15,100 --> 00:10:19,830 This is so the far the fuck out here. 153 00:10:19,830 --> 00:10:24,830 There is no way that someone who did not live and grow up in Santa Rosa 154 00:10:24,830 --> 00:10:30,270 or spent a shit ton of time here knew where this was. 155 00:10:30,270 --> 00:10:33,830 That was... I'm so uncomfortable. 156 00:10:33,830 --> 00:10:36,030 I'm so uncomfortable right now. 157 00:10:37,500 --> 00:10:39,430 {\an8}Those poor kids. 158 00:10:50,100 --> 00:10:51,900 There are just too many coincidences 159 00:10:51,900 --> 00:10:53,700 between these stories about Jim 160 00:10:53,700 --> 00:10:55,800 and the Santa Rosa hitchhike murders. 161 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,930 At this point, I think I need to get a professional involved. 162 00:11:01,930 --> 00:11:03,470 Someone who has experience 163 00:11:03,470 --> 00:11:05,670 investigating unsolved murders. 164 00:11:11,370 --> 00:11:13,700 {\an8}- Hi. - Hi. 165 00:11:13,700 --> 00:11:15,930 {\an8}- Nice to meet you. - Hi. Nina. How are you? 166 00:11:15,930 --> 00:11:18,130 {\an8}- Sierra. Good to meet you. - Take a seat. 167 00:11:19,030 --> 00:11:21,730 So what is it that makes you think 168 00:11:21,730 --> 00:11:25,330 that this person is this serial killer? 169 00:11:25,930 --> 00:11:27,770 Jim had a history 170 00:11:27,770 --> 00:11:33,100 of raping girls that were in the age range of 12 to their early 20s. 171 00:11:33,100 --> 00:11:36,230 I've been doing a lot of research and I've come across 172 00:11:36,230 --> 00:11:40,300 this unsolved serial killer case in Santa Rosa 173 00:11:40,300 --> 00:11:41,770 called the Santa Rosa Hitchhike Murders 174 00:11:41,770 --> 00:11:45,070 and all of these girls that go missing in Santa Rosa 175 00:11:45,070 --> 00:11:48,070 and then are later found murdered were in that age range. 176 00:11:48,070 --> 00:11:49,300 Okay. 177 00:11:49,300 --> 00:11:54,030 And there are a lot of things that he said and did 178 00:11:54,030 --> 00:11:58,470 that kind of made us go, like, "Huh. That's really specific and odd." 179 00:11:59,430 --> 00:12:02,030 So when were the murders? 180 00:12:02,030 --> 00:12:04,730 They were in 1972 and 1973. 181 00:12:04,730 --> 00:12:07,970 Okay. So I need hear what you've got first. 182 00:12:07,970 --> 00:12:10,230 Mm-hmm. I'd love to kind of walk you through. 183 00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:13,900 I have this map of Santa Rosa. - Okay. 184 00:12:14,470 --> 00:12:16,000 So if we can put a green dot 185 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:17,570 - for where they went missing... - Hmm-hmm. 186 00:12:17,570 --> 00:12:21,000 and then a red dot for where their bodies were found... 187 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,900 Okay, so the first girls that go missing 188 00:12:23,900 --> 00:12:26,500 {\an8}are Yvonne Weber and Maureen Sterling. 189 00:12:26,500 --> 00:12:29,130 And this was the Ice Arena. 190 00:12:29,130 --> 00:12:31,500 And they were there on a Friday night, 191 00:12:31,500 --> 00:12:34,470 hanging out in this general sort of area. 192 00:12:34,470 --> 00:12:38,900 - And they were found up here together. - Right. 193 00:12:38,900 --> 00:12:44,970 {\an8}So the next girl who goes missing is Kim Allen. - Okay. 194 00:12:44,970 --> 00:12:47,670 {\an8}But she's found right around here 195 00:12:47,670 --> 00:12:49,800 {\an8}- the following day. - The following day. 196 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,930 {\an8}Next is Jeannette Kamahele. 197 00:12:51,930 --> 00:12:56,430 {\an8}She's last seen on the 101 off ramp in Cotati, 198 00:12:56,430 --> 00:12:58,300 {\an8}and she's never been found. 199 00:12:58,300 --> 00:13:01,830 {\an8}- Why have they linked her? Because she was hitchhiking? - Because she was hitchhiking. 200 00:13:01,830 --> 00:13:02,770 {\an8}All right. 201 00:13:02,770 --> 00:13:04,870 {\an8}The next girl to go missing is Lori Kursa. 202 00:13:04,870 --> 00:13:07,830 {\an8}She was last seen in Santa Rosa, 203 00:13:07,830 --> 00:13:11,000 {\an8}so she's found right off of Calistoga Road. 204 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,870 {\an8}- So the next girl is Carolyn Davis. - Right. 205 00:13:13,870 --> 00:13:16,370 {\an8}She was last seen around Humboldt County. 206 00:13:16,370 --> 00:13:18,230 So she's found just 10 feet away 207 00:13:18,230 --> 00:13:20,370 from where Yvonne and Maureen are. 208 00:13:20,370 --> 00:13:23,670 So he's going back to his stomping ground? 209 00:13:23,670 --> 00:13:26,770 Right, and it's not like there's something grand marking it. 210 00:13:26,770 --> 00:13:30,200 Do you know what I'm saying? You'd have to know that you did it there. 211 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,170 So I would say that this person is definitely the same person. 212 00:13:34,170 --> 00:13:35,270 Right. 213 00:13:35,270 --> 00:13:39,330 The next girl who goes missing 214 00:13:39,330 --> 00:13:40,930 {\an8}is Theresa Walsh. 215 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:43,600 {\an8}So she was hitchhiking 216 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,130 up towards the Humboldt County area. 217 00:13:45,130 --> 00:13:48,370 She ends up being found in Mark West Creek. 218 00:13:48,370 --> 00:13:51,270 - She was submerged underneath a log. - Okay. 219 00:13:51,270 --> 00:13:55,370 And then the last girl is the Jane Doe. 220 00:13:55,370 --> 00:13:58,130 She's found within a 100 yards of Lori Kursa 221 00:13:58,130 --> 00:13:59,600 and she's never been identified. 222 00:14:00,630 --> 00:14:02,930 So where does Jim fit into this? 223 00:14:02,930 --> 00:14:06,570 He was living at his grandmother's house in Sausalito, 224 00:14:06,570 --> 00:14:08,930 - which is also south of here. - Right. 225 00:14:08,930 --> 00:14:12,830 But he also has a family ranch around Sebastopol. 226 00:14:12,830 --> 00:14:13,830 Okay. 227 00:14:13,830 --> 00:14:18,700 That has been in his family for generations. 228 00:14:18,700 --> 00:14:22,770 And he spent, supposedly, a lot of time there 229 00:14:22,770 --> 00:14:24,600 during the time of the murders, 230 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,970 just kind of hanging out. 231 00:14:26,970 --> 00:14:30,170 And it's right in the middle of nowhere. - Right. 232 00:14:30,830 --> 00:14:31,900 I just wanna get this clear. 233 00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:34,430 At the time that these murders were all committed, 234 00:14:34,430 --> 00:14:35,930 he was using the ranch? 235 00:14:35,930 --> 00:14:38,270 - Yes. - Wow. 236 00:14:38,270 --> 00:14:43,300 We know that he attempted to rape and did rape girls at that cabin. 237 00:14:43,300 --> 00:14:46,770 Was he ever arrested? Did he have a criminal record? 238 00:14:46,770 --> 00:14:48,330 Not that I know of. 239 00:14:48,330 --> 00:14:51,600 I've never been able to see any kind of police report or anything of that. 240 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:52,870 Okay. 241 00:14:52,870 --> 00:14:57,500 But we know that this is a place that he uses to commit crimes. 242 00:14:58,730 --> 00:15:02,570 So, with all the information I have, what are the next steps? 243 00:15:02,570 --> 00:15:05,170 So what we'll need to do is to pull together a package 244 00:15:05,170 --> 00:15:07,700 and then eventually go to the police, 245 00:15:07,700 --> 00:15:11,630 but from what I know now, it's very circumstantial. 246 00:15:11,630 --> 00:15:13,430 I need to know lots more. 247 00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:15,670 - Mm-hmm. - You need to find solid evidence. 248 00:15:15,670 --> 00:15:17,870 - Okay. - That could make all the difference. 249 00:15:33,470 --> 00:15:36,900 I'm heading to the storage unit 250 00:15:36,900 --> 00:15:43,900 to go see what my mom and grandma kept after Jim died. 251 00:15:45,570 --> 00:15:47,700 And as far as I know, 252 00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:54,130 it's pretty much been in there untouched since 2008, when he died. 253 00:15:56,130 --> 00:16:00,200 He had gone to the doctor because he thought he had pneumonia, 254 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:05,530 but when they did an X-ray, they found that he had cancer. 255 00:16:05,530 --> 00:16:08,800 {\an8}It was called Leiomyosarcoma 256 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:13,170 and starts in the stomach area and travels. 257 00:16:13,170 --> 00:16:15,670 And it had traveled up to his lungs 258 00:16:15,670 --> 00:16:19,030 and by the end, it was in his brain also. 259 00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:22,170 - Hey. - Hi, how are you? 260 00:16:22,170 --> 00:16:25,830 Jim had a cancer that just took him really fast. 261 00:16:25,830 --> 00:16:28,130 And my mom calls and she says 262 00:16:28,130 --> 00:16:32,130 {\an8}with a clear, crisp voice like I've never heard. 263 00:16:32,130 --> 00:16:36,430 "Shannon, we're safe, we don't have to be worried anymore." 264 00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:42,030 Ugh. Oh, my goodness! 265 00:16:43,330 --> 00:16:44,770 - Let's get this out. - This is good. 266 00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:49,270 Oh, I wonder what's in here. 267 00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:53,870 So which one do we wanna get down and out first? 268 00:16:53,870 --> 00:16:55,370 The trunk? 269 00:16:57,430 --> 00:16:58,870 Does it have a handle? 270 00:16:58,870 --> 00:17:00,730 - This handle's broke. - Mine, too. 271 00:17:00,730 --> 00:17:03,100 Oh, be careful. 272 00:17:03,100 --> 00:17:05,600 Don't hurt yourself. 273 00:17:07,430 --> 00:17:08,630 Okay. 274 00:17:14,770 --> 00:17:16,800 Oh, my goodness! 275 00:17:19,730 --> 00:17:24,170 Oh, look at the picture of Sierra. 276 00:17:24,170 --> 00:17:26,270 This one's the cutest. 277 00:17:26,270 --> 00:17:30,000 Oh! Look at Sierra. 278 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,570 Do you wanna take this home? - Yes. 279 00:17:32,570 --> 00:17:34,600 Timex watch. 280 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,130 What's that... I can't see what that says. 281 00:17:37,130 --> 00:17:40,130 "Indigo WR 30 M" 282 00:17:40,130 --> 00:17:42,430 - It is a Timex. - He wore it all the time, right? 283 00:17:42,430 --> 00:17:43,970 - He did. - Yeah, he did. 284 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,900 Is that his writing? - I think so. 285 00:17:48,900 --> 00:17:51,130 You had said he didn't write much. 286 00:17:51,130 --> 00:17:54,870 He told me that he never wrote anything down. - Why? 287 00:17:54,870 --> 00:17:57,030 It could be used against him. 288 00:17:57,870 --> 00:17:59,770 Used against him in what way? 289 00:17:59,770 --> 00:18:02,430 I don't know. That makes you wonder. 290 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:06,770 That's his hair clippers. 291 00:18:06,770 --> 00:18:08,230 The last time I used those, 292 00:18:08,230 --> 00:18:13,230 I cut all his hair off 'cause he was going through chemo. 293 00:18:13,230 --> 00:18:15,700 Open it or leave it in there? - Leave it in there. 294 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:22,130 Do you notice there's not a lot of pictures of him? 295 00:18:22,130 --> 00:18:24,600 - Think he threw some away? - I don't know. 296 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:25,800 This is the... - Wait. 297 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:27,530 This is the ski trip. 298 00:18:27,530 --> 00:18:30,470 Ugh! That's the last time I skied too, 299 00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:32,770 because it was such an awful trip. 300 00:18:32,770 --> 00:18:34,130 Why was that trip awful? 301 00:18:34,130 --> 00:18:39,030 He hit my head with the trunk 'cause he was just mad. 302 00:18:39,530 --> 00:18:40,770 I didn't know that. 303 00:18:40,770 --> 00:18:43,170 Oh, yeah, it hurt really bad. 304 00:18:44,230 --> 00:18:46,470 I had to kind of watch him. 305 00:18:46,470 --> 00:18:48,770 - Watch him for what? - Why did you have to watch him? 306 00:18:48,770 --> 00:18:52,400 Because he was always going to do something. 307 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,700 You know, I think I was worried he was gonna hurt somebody. 308 00:18:55,700 --> 00:18:57,630 Speaking of which, there it is. 309 00:18:58,330 --> 00:19:00,230 Oh, my gosh. 310 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,470 That knife! 311 00:19:02,470 --> 00:19:04,800 Yeah, the knife I found in your garage when we were packing up. 312 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:09,070 So it's the one he had shoved in the garage and then shoved down in a corner 313 00:19:09,070 --> 00:19:11,000 behind a bunch of stuff, just, like, in here. 314 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,570 And I said to you, "What's up with this knife?" 315 00:19:13,570 --> 00:19:16,230 And you said, "Oh, he used to drive around with that in his truck." 316 00:19:16,230 --> 00:19:17,830 Yeah, it was in his truck. 317 00:19:19,070 --> 00:19:20,630 If you're a hunter, you might have that. 318 00:19:20,630 --> 00:19:22,470 - But he didn't hunt. - I know. 319 00:19:22,470 --> 00:19:24,830 So why have a knife like that, you know? 320 00:19:25,970 --> 00:19:28,000 Why would you drive with this in your car? 321 00:19:30,100 --> 00:19:32,870 It makes sense that whoever committed these murders 322 00:19:32,870 --> 00:19:36,430 would have had some sort of weapon to subdue these girls. 323 00:19:37,170 --> 00:19:38,970 Many of these victims' bodies 324 00:19:38,970 --> 00:19:42,100 weren't discovered until months after their abductions, 325 00:19:42,100 --> 00:19:45,570 so it was difficult to know just how they were killed. 326 00:19:48,370 --> 00:19:50,000 But we know for sure 327 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,670 that Jim carried that knife with him in his car all the time 328 00:19:53,670 --> 00:19:57,230 and sometimes, he had a loaded gun with him. 329 00:19:57,230 --> 00:19:59,930 And there were more weapons at home. 330 00:20:03,070 --> 00:20:04,300 After he died, 331 00:20:04,300 --> 00:20:07,930 my mom and I were packing everything up to put in storage. 332 00:20:08,900 --> 00:20:10,230 I'm sweeping underneath the bed, 333 00:20:10,230 --> 00:20:15,630 and I find three guns and they're loaded. 334 00:20:15,630 --> 00:20:17,370 Fully loaded, all safeties off. 335 00:20:17,370 --> 00:20:23,030 Which, if you're a gun owner, safeties are not off and they're not under a bed. 336 00:20:23,030 --> 00:20:25,000 And I said, "Why are these guns here?" 337 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:26,770 She said, "I had to hide them." I said, "Why?" 338 00:20:26,770 --> 00:20:28,370 She's like, "He was gonna shoot me." 339 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,270 - Hi, Grandma. - Hi, See! 340 00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:40,200 Okay. 341 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:44,400 I wanted to just talk to you 342 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,700 about the guns that were found in the house after Jim died. 343 00:20:47,700 --> 00:20:51,630 Can you just walk me through what happened after he died with that? 344 00:20:51,630 --> 00:20:53,600 Like, roughly how many were there? 345 00:20:54,370 --> 00:20:55,370 At least four. 346 00:20:55,370 --> 00:20:57,900 - At least four, if not more? - Yes. 347 00:20:57,900 --> 00:21:00,330 Do you remember what kind of guns? 348 00:21:00,330 --> 00:21:06,970 There was a pistol and that was next to his bed. It was a revolver. 349 00:21:06,970 --> 00:21:11,500 - And I know about the survival rifle. - Mm-hmm. 350 00:21:11,500 --> 00:21:15,600 I had hidden one because I was afraid he was going to use it. 351 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,970 Oh, jeez. Were you afraid at night? When you were sleeping? 352 00:21:17,970 --> 00:21:20,930 No, that's just the weird part of it. 353 00:21:20,930 --> 00:21:26,000 I think that things just... 354 00:21:27,170 --> 00:21:30,470 gradually got so bizarre, but it seemed normal. 355 00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:34,800 - Do you know what I'm saying? - Like, he slowly upped the ante on that stuff. 356 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,100 Yeah, just little by little. 357 00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:40,970 So we had searched all over the house, 358 00:21:40,970 --> 00:21:44,430 and found these and took 'em 359 00:21:44,430 --> 00:21:47,470 to the police department. 360 00:21:47,470 --> 00:21:49,230 Okay. 361 00:21:49,230 --> 00:21:53,000 We take the guns to the police department. 362 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,870 I said to the lady, "I think my stepdad might have killed people." 363 00:21:55,870 --> 00:21:57,400 She was like, "We'll check the guns out 364 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,100 and if they come back for anything, we'll let you know." 365 00:22:00,530 --> 00:22:01,830 And that was it. 366 00:22:01,830 --> 00:22:03,500 I think that she was like, 367 00:22:03,500 --> 00:22:07,770 "Oh, another crazy lady thinking her stepdad was a murderer." 368 00:22:10,130 --> 00:22:12,000 I don't know if we'll ever know, 369 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,030 but I think if somebody 370 00:22:15,030 --> 00:22:17,300 pushes enough, 371 00:22:17,300 --> 00:22:20,370 we can figure out if Jim was the Santa Rosa Hitchhike Murderer. 372 00:22:23,230 --> 00:22:26,970 I just think people need to care to be able to do it. 373 00:22:35,500 --> 00:22:38,530 I have this memory that just came back to me recently. 374 00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:41,870 I was in Judy and Jim's house. 375 00:22:41,870 --> 00:22:44,630 That house had, like, a basement. 376 00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:48,030 And in that rec room, there was like a big closet. And in that closet, 377 00:22:48,030 --> 00:22:50,200 was Jaime's barbie collection. 378 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,100 She had all the best, expensive barbies. 379 00:22:55,100 --> 00:22:57,900 And Jaime never let me touch those barbies. 380 00:22:57,900 --> 00:23:00,330 That was like the big "No, no, no." 381 00:23:01,330 --> 00:23:05,700 And... Jaime says to me, 382 00:23:05,700 --> 00:23:08,530 "Go downstairs, and you can play with my barbies." 383 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,400 And I was so excited, but also, like, could hear, like, 384 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,570 thumping upstairs, and yelling, 385 00:23:17,570 --> 00:23:19,900 and was like, "What is going on?" 386 00:23:21,740 --> 00:23:23,070 Something's going on 387 00:23:23,070 --> 00:23:24,670 that she would let me play with them. 388 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,430 My mom... 389 00:23:28,430 --> 00:23:30,200 ...at some point, came down, 390 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,940 and, like, in a fury, packed our stuff, 391 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,600 and put us in the car. 392 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,100 It's kind of like this really... 393 00:23:38,100 --> 00:23:39,300 "Ahhh." 394 00:23:39,300 --> 00:23:41,600 And then we get in the car, it's like... 395 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,500 I knew that something bad had happened, 396 00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:47,900 because after that, my grandma was not in my life anymore. 397 00:23:47,900 --> 00:23:51,500 I never went to Santa Rosa again until Jim was dead. 398 00:23:53,130 --> 00:23:55,300 It wasn't until years later that I had learned 399 00:23:55,300 --> 00:23:58,840 what had happened between Jim and my mom earlier that night. 400 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,940 At the time, her car had broken down, 401 00:24:00,940 --> 00:24:03,740 and we were staying with Jim and my grandma. 402 00:24:03,740 --> 00:24:05,330 Get Mommy a tissue. 403 00:24:06,100 --> 00:24:07,940 {\an8}I need one more class to finish 404 00:24:07,940 --> 00:24:09,400 {\an8}my teaching credential. 405 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,330 The catch is, I have to stay 406 00:24:11,330 --> 00:24:12,840 at my mom's for that month. 407 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,030 There's Papa. 408 00:24:15,030 --> 00:24:18,470 And Jim had to drive me to my college class. 409 00:24:23,030 --> 00:24:25,840 It was a night class. My momma watched Sierra. 410 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:27,770 It was, like, dusk, when I got out. 411 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,400 Leaving from Sonoma State to Santa Rosa, 412 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,230 {\an8}you can bypass the highway 413 00:24:34,230 --> 00:24:38,630 {\an8}and drive a road that's parallel to the highway, 414 00:24:38,630 --> 00:24:40,800 {\an8}and parallel to these hills, 415 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,430 {\an8}which is... was a local shortcut. 416 00:24:45,530 --> 00:24:47,770 I have not been on this road 417 00:24:47,770 --> 00:24:50,370 since that... drive. 418 00:24:50,370 --> 00:24:53,500 But I know exactly where it is. 419 00:24:55,500 --> 00:24:58,430 You can see 101 there, and I'm like, "Okay. So, we're getting... 420 00:24:58,430 --> 00:25:01,600 We're going to be getting pretty close, we're just going to take this road home." 421 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,200 - And how is he acting right now? - Just as normal. 422 00:25:05,100 --> 00:25:09,800 And, abruptly, he... takes a right-hand turn. 423 00:25:12,900 --> 00:25:15,500 And he didn't say, "Hey, I'm going to take this other road." 424 00:25:15,500 --> 00:25:19,740 And he quickly goes into, like, race-car mode. 425 00:25:19,740 --> 00:25:22,170 And his face changes, 426 00:25:22,170 --> 00:25:24,270 his voice changes. 427 00:25:24,270 --> 00:25:25,840 Like, everything changes. 428 00:25:28,070 --> 00:25:29,530 I don't even dare talk to him, 429 00:25:29,530 --> 00:25:30,970 like, he's flying through here. 430 00:25:30,970 --> 00:25:33,270 And I remember this fence, actually, like... 431 00:25:36,230 --> 00:25:37,700 And I can't remember what he said, 432 00:25:37,700 --> 00:25:42,070 but it is the same kind of feeling I'm left with as the phone calls 433 00:25:42,070 --> 00:25:44,430 I was getting when I was in high school, 434 00:25:44,430 --> 00:25:47,400 the violence that he was going to do to me, 435 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,840 and the sexual things he was going to do to me. 436 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,400 I knew that that was when that moment was going to happen. 437 00:25:56,430 --> 00:25:59,670 I'm like, "I'm gonna... I got to jump out, or how am I going to get out of here?" 438 00:25:59,670 --> 00:26:01,630 My left hand's on the seat belt. 439 00:26:01,630 --> 00:26:03,200 My right hand's on the door. 440 00:26:04,740 --> 00:26:06,570 I definitely... 441 00:26:06,570 --> 00:26:08,770 - feared that he was going to kill me. - Mmm-hmm. 442 00:26:10,740 --> 00:26:12,000 I think to myself, 443 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,000 "I can either jump out right now, get really hurt, 444 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,840 or I am going to try to, like, outwit him, 445 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,200 and get him to snap out of this thing he's in." 446 00:26:20,870 --> 00:26:22,900 And he slows into this turnout, 447 00:26:23,740 --> 00:26:25,130 and I say, 448 00:26:25,130 --> 00:26:27,700 "We'd better get back, it's getting late." 449 00:26:28,870 --> 00:26:30,070 And Jim goes, 450 00:26:31,370 --> 00:26:32,800 "We'd better get back." 451 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:35,740 And he just drives off normally. 452 00:26:38,070 --> 00:26:39,740 And, meanwhile, I'm like, 453 00:26:39,740 --> 00:26:41,940 "Oh, my God. 454 00:26:41,940 --> 00:26:44,100 I don't even know who that was. 455 00:26:44,100 --> 00:26:46,600 I don't know what just happened. 456 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,800 But I'm done with this crazy shit." 457 00:26:51,300 --> 00:26:53,670 I remember getting out of the car and just going in the house, 458 00:26:53,670 --> 00:26:55,070 and I'm thinking to myself, 459 00:26:55,070 --> 00:26:57,770 "I got to get out of here. I never want to deal with him again." 460 00:26:57,770 --> 00:27:00,700 I packed up everything that I had in minutes. 461 00:27:00,700 --> 00:27:05,840 And I said to my mom, "If you're with him, I can no longer be around you. 462 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:07,470 And I need Sierra to stay safe, 463 00:27:07,470 --> 00:27:10,600 and I need me to be safe, and I don't feel safe around him." 464 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,740 And... she stayed around him. 465 00:27:13,740 --> 00:27:16,630 And we didn't have a relationship for... 466 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,670 probably over ten years. 467 00:27:26,670 --> 00:27:29,430 I'm really overwhelmed right now, like, for real. 468 00:27:29,430 --> 00:27:31,070 - For real. - For real? 469 00:27:31,070 --> 00:27:33,430 Because this is the road that I took... 470 00:27:34,130 --> 00:27:35,870 {\an8}to look for Kim Allen's body. 471 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,400 Kim Allen's body is only 25 feet down there. 472 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,670 - So it's right there? - So, it's... it's really close off 473 00:27:48,670 --> 00:27:50,400 - down the road. - And it's not a steep hill. 474 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,400 No, I mean, you would see her. - Mmm-hmm. 475 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,800 Who's to say he wasn't going to take you here? 476 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,200 And instead, he was like, "Okay, no, we'll go back to the house," 477 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:58,600 and went back to Santa Rosa. 478 00:27:59,370 --> 00:28:00,500 I mean, it's really... 479 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,970 And that it was just, you know, a month of him driving me the same way, 480 00:28:08,970 --> 00:28:12,100 and then just... 481 00:28:12,100 --> 00:28:14,630 Well, and the similarities to... of the road that you were on, 482 00:28:14,630 --> 00:28:16,600 with, like, this one side that's a hill, 483 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,870 and then the other side, that's an embankment down. 484 00:28:18,870 --> 00:28:21,500 And he's... And he's actively, like, driving... 485 00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:23,840 It's almost as if he's seeing, "Is this is a good spot... 486 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:24,800 - To... Yeah. - ...No, maybe it's not. 487 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:26,700 Is this a good one? No, it's not." 488 00:28:26,700 --> 00:28:28,570 And, again, it's one of those things, 489 00:28:28,570 --> 00:28:30,900 that every time you look at what he's done, 490 00:28:32,330 --> 00:28:36,000 it doesn't point away from him. It points... 491 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,570 - To him. - ...to him. 492 00:28:37,570 --> 00:28:39,170 Do you want to get back in the car? 493 00:28:39,170 --> 00:28:40,500 - Yeah. - Okay. 494 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,470 I'm researching other incidents 495 00:28:51,470 --> 00:28:55,200 of women being abducted in Northern California. 496 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,870 And one story I find actually gives me the chills, 497 00:28:58,870 --> 00:29:02,270 and completely shifts the focus of my investigation. 498 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,840 It was almost verbatim what had happened to my mom with Jim. 499 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,330 In 1970, there is this abduction 500 00:29:11,330 --> 00:29:13,470 of a woman, named Kathleen Johns. 501 00:29:17,740 --> 00:29:19,200 She's driving her car, 502 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:20,940 and this person comes up behind her 503 00:29:20,940 --> 00:29:22,430 and starts flashing their lights. 504 00:29:23,530 --> 00:29:26,000 She pulls over because she thinks something's wrong. 505 00:29:26,870 --> 00:29:28,400 That person tells her, 506 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:29,570 "Hey, your tire's loose. 507 00:29:29,570 --> 00:29:31,270 Let me tighten it. Don't worry, I have a tool." 508 00:29:31,270 --> 00:29:32,530 So, they tighten it. 509 00:29:32,530 --> 00:29:34,200 And then she gets back on the road, 510 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,870 and all of a sudden, the wheel starts to come off. 511 00:29:36,870 --> 00:29:39,500 So, the person had clearly loosened the wheel. 512 00:29:40,700 --> 00:29:43,300 The person comes back up to her, and is like, 513 00:29:43,300 --> 00:29:45,800 "I can drive you to this gas station, 514 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,030 and we can get you help to fix the car. 515 00:29:48,030 --> 00:29:49,500 Go ahead and hop in my car." 516 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,130 She has her baby with her. 517 00:29:53,940 --> 00:29:55,470 She gets in the car, 518 00:29:55,940 --> 00:29:57,970 and they're driving. 519 00:29:57,970 --> 00:30:01,630 And suddenly, this person just switches. 520 00:30:02,370 --> 00:30:03,800 He's taunting her, 521 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,330 and telling her the... how they're going to kill her, 522 00:30:06,330 --> 00:30:08,740 and they're swerving, and being erratic. 523 00:30:08,740 --> 00:30:10,670 And she is now starting to think, 524 00:30:10,670 --> 00:30:12,030 "Okay, I got to get out of this car, 525 00:30:12,030 --> 00:30:13,570 because he's going to kill me." 526 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:16,670 She sees an opportunity to jump. 527 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:18,800 She jumps out of the car, 528 00:30:19,370 --> 00:30:21,300 and she runs. 529 00:30:21,300 --> 00:30:24,770 She waves down a vehicle, and they take her to the police station. 530 00:30:26,230 --> 00:30:27,970 While she's at the police station, 531 00:30:27,970 --> 00:30:29,870 they're questioning her about what happened, 532 00:30:29,870 --> 00:30:33,740 and she sees this sketch on the wall. And she said, 533 00:30:33,740 --> 00:30:37,070 "That's the guy. That's the guy who abducted me, 534 00:30:37,070 --> 00:30:38,430 {\an8}the Zodiac Killer." 535 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:42,740 In the late '60s, 536 00:30:42,740 --> 00:30:45,170 the San Francisco Bay Area was terrorized 537 00:30:45,170 --> 00:30:49,770 by a mysterious maniac, who claims to have committed 37 murders 538 00:30:49,770 --> 00:30:51,470 One of the nation's most infamous, 539 00:30:51,470 --> 00:30:53,200 unsolved serial killers. 540 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:54,130 - The Zodiac... - Zodiac... 541 00:30:54,130 --> 00:30:55,100 The Zodiac... 542 00:30:55,100 --> 00:30:57,800 We have reason to believe that he's a maniac. 543 00:30:58,330 --> 00:31:00,230 However, he is a... 544 00:31:00,230 --> 00:31:02,970 cunning man. He knows just exactly 545 00:31:02,970 --> 00:31:04,700 what moves he's going to make. 546 00:31:06,070 --> 00:31:07,400 It appears to us 547 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,030 that he is killing just for the thrill. 548 00:31:12,170 --> 00:31:13,270 {\an8}Police linked the Zodiac 549 00:31:13,270 --> 00:31:14,840 {\an8}to five killings in the Bay Area, 550 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,030 but he may have been responsible for more. 551 00:31:18,030 --> 00:31:21,270 In 1970, the Zodiac writes a letter to the Chronicle, 552 00:31:21,270 --> 00:31:23,670 stating that he's going to change up his MO. 553 00:31:24,430 --> 00:31:26,430 And right around this time, 554 00:31:26,430 --> 00:31:29,300 the Santa Rosa hitchhiker murders start happening. 555 00:31:30,230 --> 00:31:31,840 No dates overlap. 556 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:33,970 When killings stop in one locale, 557 00:31:33,970 --> 00:31:35,740 they begin in another. 558 00:31:35,740 --> 00:31:38,400 If the Zodiac is indeed responsible 559 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,530 for the deaths of these girls, 560 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,100 then is it possible that Jim 561 00:31:44,100 --> 00:31:45,630 could be the Zodiac? 562 00:31:58,030 --> 00:32:00,530 The Zodiac's Northern California crime spree 563 00:32:00,530 --> 00:32:03,870 took place from 1968 to 1970. 564 00:32:05,100 --> 00:32:07,100 The Santa Rosa hitchhiker murderer 565 00:32:07,100 --> 00:32:10,930 was active from 1972 to 1973. 566 00:32:12,270 --> 00:32:14,470 So, there a lot of people who believe 567 00:32:14,470 --> 00:32:19,330 that the Zodiac evolved into the Santa Rosa hitchhiker murderer. 568 00:32:19,330 --> 00:32:21,070 {\an8}And I was like, "This is getting weird. 569 00:32:21,070 --> 00:32:23,100 {\an8}Like, ah... It's too far out there." 570 00:32:23,100 --> 00:32:26,930 But I know of a picture of Jim, where I'm like, 571 00:32:26,930 --> 00:32:28,130 "Oh, my God. 572 00:32:29,930 --> 00:32:32,300 They look so similar." 573 00:32:33,370 --> 00:32:36,100 Wow, you know, he really does look like 574 00:32:36,100 --> 00:32:39,300 these pictures of Jim in 1969. 575 00:32:39,300 --> 00:32:43,100 Granted, you look back, and almost every guy looks like this, you know, 576 00:32:43,100 --> 00:32:44,830 with the... with the crew cut, 577 00:32:44,830 --> 00:32:47,330 and... and the black-rimmed glasses. 578 00:32:47,330 --> 00:32:49,300 So, I started the research 579 00:32:49,300 --> 00:32:51,270 to quiet my mind, to, like, just be like, 580 00:32:51,270 --> 00:32:52,600 "Sierra, you're being crazy," 581 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:57,100 and find... find the thing that would knock him off the list. 582 00:32:57,100 --> 00:32:59,770 But every time I go to do that, 583 00:32:59,770 --> 00:33:03,730 I find these weird things that I can't definitively say, 584 00:33:04,430 --> 00:33:05,630 "No, it's not him." 585 00:33:05,630 --> 00:33:06,670 He was a man, 586 00:33:07,300 --> 00:33:08,970 uh, heavy build... 587 00:33:08,970 --> 00:33:11,630 The Zodiac had, like, a stocky, athletic build. 588 00:33:11,630 --> 00:33:14,270 Jim was very stocky, very athletic. 589 00:33:14,270 --> 00:33:16,670 Short cropped hair. 590 00:33:16,670 --> 00:33:19,330 Possibly wearing red-tinted glasses. 591 00:33:20,700 --> 00:33:22,970 And the shoe size, 592 00:33:22,970 --> 00:33:25,800 the shoe print they found, was a ten-and-a-half. 593 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,600 Jim wore size 10.5. 594 00:33:29,900 --> 00:33:35,430 The Zodiac has a description as being... 5'8'' to 5'10''. 595 00:33:35,430 --> 00:33:38,500 Jim was in that height range. 596 00:33:38,500 --> 00:33:41,100 So, all of that is nothing, 597 00:33:41,100 --> 00:33:45,900 really, if you're just a person who, like, lives a fairly normal life. 598 00:33:45,900 --> 00:33:49,430 But if you're a person who has a history of violence, 599 00:33:49,430 --> 00:33:53,270 psychotic behavior, and delusional fantasies, 600 00:33:53,270 --> 00:33:55,770 you start to go, "Does this mean something? 601 00:33:55,770 --> 00:33:59,500 Or is this just a really bizarre, weird coincidence?" 602 00:34:03,670 --> 00:34:05,830 If the Zodiac killer did evolve 603 00:34:05,830 --> 00:34:08,130 into the Santa Rosa hitchhiker murderer, 604 00:34:08,130 --> 00:34:11,330 then I need to take a closer look at some of the Zodiac crimes. 605 00:34:11,330 --> 00:34:13,900 to see if there is any connections to Jim. 606 00:34:14,700 --> 00:34:16,630 So, I'm headed to Lake Berryessa, 607 00:34:16,630 --> 00:34:19,970 a large recreation lake just north of San Francisco, 608 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,370 where in 1969, 609 00:34:22,370 --> 00:34:24,730 the Zodiac attacked a young couple. 610 00:34:28,230 --> 00:34:29,730 Early last Saturday evening, 611 00:34:30,500 --> 00:34:32,730 Cecelia Shepard and Bryan Hartnell, 612 00:34:32,730 --> 00:34:34,730 both in their early 20s, 613 00:34:34,730 --> 00:34:38,400 were sitting on this knoll of land, overlooking part of Lake Berryessa. 614 00:34:39,330 --> 00:34:41,470 They thought they were alone. 615 00:34:41,470 --> 00:34:43,600 But there was a third man on this knoll. 616 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,230 a man who carried a knife and gun, 617 00:34:46,230 --> 00:34:48,270 and intended to use them. 618 00:34:48,270 --> 00:34:51,430 Tied them up and then just told them he had to kill 'em. 619 00:34:51,430 --> 00:34:54,530 A hooded man stabbed a 22-year-old woman to death 620 00:34:54,530 --> 00:34:55,770 and attacked her boyfriend, 621 00:34:55,770 --> 00:34:57,600 as the couple sat by the lake shore. 622 00:34:59,270 --> 00:35:03,470 I actually have a picture of Jim on a boat, on a lake, 623 00:35:03,470 --> 00:35:05,530 that could be Lake Berryessa. 624 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,700 I have no idea who took it, 625 00:35:08,700 --> 00:35:11,030 but if I can somehow match the photo 626 00:35:11,030 --> 00:35:12,900 to the surrounding landscape, 627 00:35:12,900 --> 00:35:17,030 then I can prove that he did, in fact, come to this area, 628 00:35:17,030 --> 00:35:20,370 the very same area that the Zodiac stalked. 629 00:35:23,630 --> 00:35:25,400 So, this is the photo. 630 00:35:26,670 --> 00:35:28,570 It feels like he's out a bit, 631 00:35:28,570 --> 00:35:31,270 like, the... the hills behind him are not big. 632 00:35:31,270 --> 00:35:32,700 His head is above them. 633 00:35:32,700 --> 00:35:35,470 So, I feel like I have to get out to the main area of the lake, I think. 634 00:35:39,170 --> 00:35:42,230 Found this young girl laying on the, uh, shoreline here, 635 00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:44,730 all stabbed, in, uh, several places. 636 00:35:47,070 --> 00:35:48,500 {\an8}This is... 637 00:35:48,500 --> 00:35:49,900 one of the worst things I ever witnessed. 638 00:35:52,100 --> 00:35:55,770 So, something that is kind of with all of the Zodiac crimes, 639 00:35:55,770 --> 00:35:57,470 there's a very voyeuristic... 640 00:35:58,030 --> 00:35:59,870 element to them. 641 00:35:59,870 --> 00:36:02,400 And this one is particularly horrifying. 642 00:36:04,300 --> 00:36:06,800 What kind of sticks out to me, is that, 643 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,070 you know, Jim had a tendency to be really voyeuristic. 644 00:36:10,070 --> 00:36:12,570 He was always lurking and always watching, 645 00:36:12,570 --> 00:36:16,430 which is really what the Zodiac did here. 646 00:36:22,830 --> 00:36:24,370 Maybe that's it right there. 647 00:36:29,130 --> 00:36:30,970 He's sitting, and he's, like... 648 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:33,770 Here. 649 00:36:36,100 --> 00:36:39,230 And the person taking the photo would have been, like, there. 650 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,470 So, I'm wondering if they're inside that little inlet, 651 00:36:43,470 --> 00:36:46,200 and then this, right over here, 652 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,930 could be that island, but the water was higher at the time. 653 00:36:49,930 --> 00:36:51,670 Because it's not over here, 654 00:36:51,670 --> 00:36:53,770 because there's a big bridge back there, 655 00:36:53,770 --> 00:36:56,670 and you would see that big bridge in the photo, I feel like. 656 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:07,100 Around that peninsula, bend, is the parking lot, 657 00:37:07,100 --> 00:37:09,230 where Bryan Hartnell 658 00:37:09,230 --> 00:37:11,800 and Cecelia Shepard had parked their car. 659 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:16,870 And they were then attacked on the shoreline. 660 00:37:16,870 --> 00:37:19,770 Of all the places for him to have taken a photo, 661 00:37:19,770 --> 00:37:21,200 it is pretty weird 662 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,770 that it appears to have been... 663 00:37:24,770 --> 00:37:26,130 right around here. 664 00:37:30,300 --> 00:37:33,000 The Zodiac knew this area. 665 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,000 And Jim Mordecai knew this area too. 666 00:37:41,970 --> 00:37:44,770 Now that I'm thinking there's a possibility 667 00:37:44,770 --> 00:37:46,970 Jim could have been the Zodiac killer, 668 00:37:46,970 --> 00:37:51,530 I'm going to meet with one of the world's top experts to find out more. 669 00:37:51,530 --> 00:37:53,570 What was the first thing that made you attracted 670 00:37:53,570 --> 00:37:55,570 to the Zodiac case? 671 00:37:55,570 --> 00:37:58,070 {\an8}I heard about it from a homicide detective 672 00:37:58,070 --> 00:38:01,530 {\an8}who lived across the street from us when I was growing up. 673 00:38:01,530 --> 00:38:03,370 And he used to kind of mention the Zodiac 674 00:38:03,370 --> 00:38:06,530 as like a boogeyman character, you know? 675 00:38:06,530 --> 00:38:09,300 So, at a certain point, I... I start going to the library, 676 00:38:09,300 --> 00:38:11,530 and reading the stories about the case. 677 00:38:11,530 --> 00:38:12,800 Like a lot of people, it... 678 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,700 the story scared the hell out of me. 679 00:38:14,700 --> 00:38:18,230 So, it was one of those fascinating, true crime stories, 680 00:38:18,230 --> 00:38:22,530 made even more fascinating by the fact that the Zodiac was never caught. 681 00:38:22,530 --> 00:38:25,330 I started out, you know, just gathering police reports, 682 00:38:25,330 --> 00:38:27,870 autopsy reports, things like that. 683 00:38:27,870 --> 00:38:30,300 And then, I was able to start actually 684 00:38:30,300 --> 00:38:32,900 interviewing people who were involved, and tour 685 00:38:32,900 --> 00:38:36,170 the crime scenes with some of the original investigators, 686 00:38:36,170 --> 00:38:37,970 and get the actual facts 687 00:38:37,970 --> 00:38:40,030 to find out what really happened. 688 00:38:40,030 --> 00:38:43,840 So, that helps a lot in separating fact from fiction. 689 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:50,770 The Zodiac crimes span from December, 1968, 690 00:38:50,770 --> 00:38:53,200 to October, 1969. 691 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,740 The first was an attack on a young couple. 692 00:38:55,740 --> 00:38:58,330 The second was an attack on another couple. 693 00:38:58,330 --> 00:39:02,200 Then, the third attack was on another couple at a lake recreation area. 694 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,030 And the fourth attack was on a lone-male cab driver 695 00:39:05,030 --> 00:39:06,530 in San Francisco. 696 00:39:07,630 --> 00:39:10,400 This has always been known as a city of mystery. 697 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,430 and it seems now to have a new and real one on its hands. 698 00:39:13,430 --> 00:39:15,570 Unlike other serial killers, 699 00:39:15,570 --> 00:39:17,530 he wrote letters to newspapers, 700 00:39:17,530 --> 00:39:19,500 {\an8}he sent ciphers and clues, 701 00:39:19,500 --> 00:39:22,200 {\an8}taunting people with clues to his identity. 702 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,230 {\an8}He, uh, called the police to report his crimes. 703 00:39:25,230 --> 00:39:26,600 We're getting many, many letters 704 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:27,940 and telephone calls, and everything. 705 00:39:27,940 --> 00:39:31,270 There's no... no specific person that we suspect 706 00:39:31,270 --> 00:39:33,170 at this time. 707 00:39:33,170 --> 00:39:35,530 You know, in the very beginning, he sent, uh, 708 00:39:35,530 --> 00:39:38,970 letters to three different Bay Area newspapers. 709 00:39:38,970 --> 00:39:41,900 But for some reason, he latched onto the Chronicle, 710 00:39:41,900 --> 00:39:43,270 and then they ran with it. 711 00:39:45,940 --> 00:39:47,940 The killer claimed responsibility, 712 00:39:47,940 --> 00:39:50,030 and promised even more bloodshed 713 00:39:50,030 --> 00:39:52,330 in a series of letters to newspapers. 714 00:39:53,970 --> 00:39:56,000 I was a reporter 715 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:57,970 {\an8}at the San Francisco Chronicle 716 00:39:57,970 --> 00:40:00,030 {\an8}during the 1970s. 717 00:40:01,670 --> 00:40:07,000 Now, you've got a killer who is bragging about it, and taunting the police 718 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:08,500 for not being able to catch him, 719 00:40:08,500 --> 00:40:12,100 or seeing if they could solve this puzzle. 720 00:40:12,100 --> 00:40:15,230 I've always kind of thought of Zodiac as a... 721 00:40:15,230 --> 00:40:16,700 an early terrorist, 722 00:40:16,700 --> 00:40:21,070 in a sense that, he was able to use the media 723 00:40:21,070 --> 00:40:24,900 to spread fear, uh, throughout the community. 724 00:40:24,900 --> 00:40:27,900 Because, even though the killing 725 00:40:27,900 --> 00:40:32,840 in October, 1969, was the last known murder 726 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,130 by Zodiac, he continued to send letters, 727 00:40:36,130 --> 00:40:39,800 threatening letters to the newspaper for the next few years. 728 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,840 There it was, in the Chronicle this morning, like a nightmare revisited, 729 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,230 the letter from the Zodiac, 730 00:40:44,230 --> 00:40:46,570 Stylistically similar to the ones written before, 731 00:40:46,570 --> 00:40:49,130 this Zodiac letter referred to the movie, The Exorcist. 732 00:40:49,130 --> 00:40:53,170 He said he had seen a movie that stimulated him to write this letter. And, uh, 733 00:40:53,170 --> 00:40:57,940 uh... That's, you know, that's likely determined at this time. 734 00:40:57,940 --> 00:40:59,500 This is the first letter from the Zodiac 735 00:40:59,500 --> 00:41:00,530 in nearly three years. 736 00:41:00,530 --> 00:41:02,270 It was probably mailed, Tuesday, 737 00:41:02,270 --> 00:41:04,430 from either San Mateo, or Santa Clara County. 738 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,900 And the Zodiac wasn't the only one interested in exorcisms. 739 00:41:10,770 --> 00:41:13,740 Jim would talk about performing an exorcism. 740 00:41:16,070 --> 00:41:18,100 I remember, as a freshman, 741 00:41:18,100 --> 00:41:20,200 {\an8}I'm just going to my ag science class 742 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,870 {\an8}to get my "easy A" from this "easy-A" teacher. 743 00:41:23,870 --> 00:41:27,370 And Jim's standing up in front of class, 744 00:41:27,370 --> 00:41:31,800 and he is talking about his house being possessed. 745 00:41:32,630 --> 00:41:35,300 And that, to get rid of this demon, 746 00:41:35,300 --> 00:41:37,000 he has to perform an exorcism. 747 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,600 So, he has to go get holy water, 748 00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,030 he has to get his bible out, read specific verses. 749 00:41:46,370 --> 00:41:48,500 And I remember being in class, like, 750 00:41:49,070 --> 00:41:50,670 "Nobody else hearing this?" 751 00:41:54,870 --> 00:41:57,370 Uh, what is it that you see, that makes you think 752 00:41:57,370 --> 00:42:00,740 that your grandfather could possibly be the Zodiac? 753 00:42:00,740 --> 00:42:02,770 You know, he liked to taunt people. 754 00:42:02,770 --> 00:42:05,430 So, he liked to have power over people. 755 00:42:05,430 --> 00:42:06,900 It's interesting that you say that, 756 00:42:06,900 --> 00:42:13,500 because it seems like that was part of the game that Zodiac created. 757 00:42:13,500 --> 00:42:17,170 You know, he's... he's basically taunting you to get involved. 758 00:42:17,170 --> 00:42:19,370 - Mmm-hmm. - You know, "Try and catch me. 759 00:42:19,370 --> 00:42:21,270 Here's my name and a cipher." 760 00:42:23,170 --> 00:42:25,970 The Zodiac case has been buried in myth... 761 00:42:25,970 --> 00:42:28,030 - Yeah. - ...in fossils for years. 762 00:42:28,030 --> 00:42:30,200 It's... It's the holy grail of true crime. 763 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:31,600 - Mmm-hmm. - You know, I think, 764 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,840 if the Zodiac case was solved today, 765 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,200 a lot of the interest in it would drop... 766 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:37,740 - Yeah. - ...because people are interested 767 00:42:37,740 --> 00:42:38,870 in the mystery of it. 768 00:42:38,870 --> 00:42:40,900 Especially, because the... 769 00:42:40,900 --> 00:42:44,230 Out of the four ciphers that the Zodiac sent, 770 00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:46,270 only two of them have been solved. 771 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,330 In August, 1969, 772 00:42:49,330 --> 00:42:51,800 the first Zodiac cipher was solved. 773 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,400 In it, the Zodiac claimed he liked killing people, 774 00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,430 because it was so much fun. 775 00:42:56,430 --> 00:42:59,500 Then, 51 years later, in 2020, 776 00:42:59,500 --> 00:43:01,270 the second cipher was solved. 777 00:43:01,270 --> 00:43:03,230 And this one was even weirder. 778 00:43:03,230 --> 00:43:06,270 It talked about how he thought of his victims as slaves 779 00:43:06,270 --> 00:43:08,530 who would serve him in his afterlife. 780 00:43:10,570 --> 00:43:12,630 Neither revealed his identity, 781 00:43:12,630 --> 00:43:15,570 but they do give us a glimpse inside his mind. 782 00:43:18,630 --> 00:43:20,270 I'm sure a lot of people today 783 00:43:20,270 --> 00:43:23,130 are reading this... cipher translation, 784 00:43:23,130 --> 00:43:25,000 and they're thinking, 785 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,030 "Gosh, that sounds like a madman. 786 00:43:27,030 --> 00:43:28,430 That sounds like a crazy person." 787 00:43:30,330 --> 00:43:33,670 When I read it, it just sounds like Jim. 66162

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