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When I looked at him,
2
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he was just standingperfectly still
3
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watching the ice skatersskate.
4
00:00:17,500 --> 00:00:22,170
Just, like, dead still
waiting for my friends.
5
00:00:22,170 --> 00:00:24,630
It wasn't a couple of guys,it was one guy.
6
00:00:25,900 --> 00:00:29,100
When I looked at him,
it was side profile
7
00:00:29,100 --> 00:00:31,100
'cause he was just
kind of looking forward.
8
00:00:31,100 --> 00:00:36,470
And what I remembered
was the short, dark hair and slender build,
9
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and a strong nose.
10
00:00:39,530 --> 00:00:41,530
His nose looks like the nose
with the dark hair and the short--
11
00:00:41,530 --> 00:00:43,530
Yeah, I wonder...
Yeah, so that's the side.
12
00:00:43,530 --> 00:00:45,270
That's what got me there, is that picture.
13
00:00:45,270 --> 00:00:49,370
He does have
a pretty prominent nose and he was, like, 5'10".
14
00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:53,830
He looks... I mean, I'm...
15
00:00:55,100 --> 00:00:57,630
He knew this area
like the back of his hand.
16
00:00:57,630 --> 00:00:59,300
I feel like I could cry.
17
00:01:02,630 --> 00:01:04,370
I don't even knowwhat to feel, you know?
18
00:01:05,930 --> 00:01:10,270
What do you do
with information like that?
19
00:01:12,230 --> 00:01:14,070
I feel weirdly validated.
20
00:01:14,070 --> 00:01:19,570
Like, I've been working
very hard for a long time to get people to listen to me.
21
00:01:19,570 --> 00:01:24,470
My mom has been workingfor many years to get peopleto listen.
22
00:01:24,470 --> 00:01:28,130
So, it was like,
"Okay, I'm not crazy,"
23
00:01:28,130 --> 00:01:29,670
but then in the same breath...
24
00:01:31,830 --> 00:01:33,830
I feel scared.
25
00:01:33,830 --> 00:01:39,470
Like, I'm alone in this hotel
and I just feel scared by what I heard.
26
00:01:39,470 --> 00:01:45,930
Nothing could have
prepared me for today when I saw Mary's face.
27
00:01:48,130 --> 00:01:50,070
And it became apparent
28
00:01:51,770 --> 00:01:57,170
how spooked and ooked
and freaked out she was by Jim.
29
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I didn't know what to do.
30
00:02:27,370 --> 00:02:28,800
Hey, girl.
31
00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,430
- Good to see you.
- Good to see you, too.
32
00:02:33,300 --> 00:02:34,470
- You hungry?
- Yes.
33
00:02:34,470 --> 00:02:36,030
Yeah.
34
00:02:36,030 --> 00:02:40,400
{\an8}- So I've been doing
all that research on Jim. - Mm-hmm.
35
00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,470
{\an8}And I'm kind of getting
to this point with it all
36
00:02:43,470 --> 00:02:46,370
{\an8}where I just feel like
there's these pieces that I'm missing,
37
00:02:46,370 --> 00:02:48,500
{\an8}and I just wanna know
what happened.
38
00:02:48,500 --> 00:02:52,170
{\an8}And it's so hard
when you're going back in time
39
00:02:52,170 --> 00:02:56,330
and you're trying
to figure out things
40
00:02:56,330 --> 00:02:58,470
that people don't
really wanna talk about.
41
00:02:58,470 --> 00:03:01,230
I guess sometimes I feel
a little awkward reaching out to people
42
00:03:01,230 --> 00:03:04,700
because it's, like,
I wanna know what happened to this family
43
00:03:04,700 --> 00:03:08,100
and what happened,
but I also don't want to reopen trauma
44
00:03:08,100 --> 00:03:11,500
that they've moved past
and they don't want to deal with anymore
45
00:03:11,500 --> 00:03:12,970
'cause they've come
to terms with it,
46
00:03:12,970 --> 00:03:17,670
so I don't wanna be the source
of re-traumatizing anyone.
47
00:03:17,670 --> 00:03:19,000
Right.
48
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,600
Even talking to you,
sometimes I feel like I don't wanna impose.
49
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:23,070
Like it's not my place.
50
00:03:23,070 --> 00:03:25,670
Well, I think if people
are willing to do it, they're willing to do it.
51
00:03:25,670 --> 00:03:27,370
Yeah.
52
00:03:27,370 --> 00:03:30,130
And if they're not,
you leave them alone.
53
00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:32,000
Mm-hmm.
54
00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,570
I mean,
putting the pieces together will be good.
55
00:03:36,470 --> 00:03:38,800
You know, Michael would be
good to talk to.
56
00:03:42,130 --> 00:03:43,400
{\an8}Michael Probst
57
00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:47,870
{\an8}is Jeanne's second childfrom her first marriage.
58
00:03:47,870 --> 00:03:50,500
{\an8}Michael is alsoChristi's younger brother.
59
00:03:52,930 --> 00:03:56,130
I don't really know Michael,I know of Michael.
60
00:03:56,130 --> 00:03:58,170
I remember always wanting
to meet him,
61
00:03:58,170 --> 00:04:02,170
but then there was
like this barrier almost
62
00:04:02,170 --> 00:04:06,700
between myself, my mom,Christi, and Michael.
63
00:04:17,500 --> 00:04:20,570
- It's so great
to finally meet you. - I know.
64
00:04:20,570 --> 00:04:23,270
Isn't it crazy
that we've never met? - I know.
65
00:04:23,270 --> 00:04:24,800
- It's so bizarre.
- Right.
66
00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,900
{\an8}I wanted to talk to you
because Christi, you know, when I talked to her...
67
00:04:27,900 --> 00:04:33,000
{\an8}With her trauma,
she has a hard time remembering a lot of details
68
00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,470
- about the day-to-day life
of living with him. - Yeah, she does.
69
00:04:36,470 --> 00:04:39,830
How did you meet Jim?
What was that like?
70
00:04:39,830 --> 00:04:43,730
He just kind of showed up
one day.
71
00:04:43,730 --> 00:04:49,270
You know, he wasthis macho, muscular athlete.
72
00:04:49,270 --> 00:04:53,400
So he commandedpower and authority.
73
00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,430
My mom's like,"This is gonna beyour new stepfather."
74
00:04:56,430 --> 00:04:59,500
I was like, "This guy
can't be a part of my life."
75
00:04:59,500 --> 00:05:02,100
Mm-hmm.
It didn't seem real almost?
76
00:05:05,070 --> 00:05:09,000
As my stepfather,he taught me how to fight.
77
00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:13,570
And my first fight
happened in the first grade.
78
00:05:13,570 --> 00:05:16,670
This little boy just was
always kind of a bully,
79
00:05:16,670 --> 00:05:19,970
bugged me,
and I told Jim that.
80
00:05:19,970 --> 00:05:22,230
And he said to me,
81
00:05:22,230 --> 00:05:24,200
"You're gonnamarch down to that corner
82
00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,170
and you'regoing to punch him."
83
00:05:27,030 --> 00:05:29,130
And I was like,"I'm not doing that."
84
00:05:29,130 --> 00:05:31,770
Jim was like, "Yes, you are."
85
00:05:31,770 --> 00:05:34,770
And so I went down there
and Jim followed me.
86
00:05:34,770 --> 00:05:38,070
Then I just hauled offand punched him.
87
00:05:38,070 --> 00:05:39,470
Jim's like, "Do it again."
88
00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:45,430
And I kept punching himin the face, in the head.
89
00:05:45,430 --> 00:05:47,270
Jim's like, "Do it again."
90
00:05:56,070 --> 00:05:58,600
That's just
not my personality.
91
00:06:01,300 --> 00:06:03,100
And I felt horrible.
92
00:06:10,070 --> 00:06:12,800
- And he thought that was fun.
- Oh, he loved it.
93
00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,030
- He liked to incite fear...
- Mm-hmm.
94
00:06:16,030 --> 00:06:18,570
...and see
where it would register.
95
00:06:20,770 --> 00:06:25,800
Did you hear that story
about the drive? - Tell me about it.
96
00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:30,130
Well, when Jim
took me on this ride, I don't know how I...
97
00:06:30,130 --> 00:06:33,070
I mean, I was like six
or seven years old.
98
00:06:33,070 --> 00:06:35,070
We were going
to the grocery store.
99
00:06:35,070 --> 00:06:36,570
And at that time,
100
00:06:36,570 --> 00:06:41,030
it was in the '70s,
so there was farmlands.
101
00:06:42,100 --> 00:06:45,730
And it was July,so it was very hot.
102
00:06:46,970 --> 00:06:49,300
We were driving.
103
00:06:49,300 --> 00:06:54,230
He slowed down to show me
where they found a dead body.
104
00:06:56,570 --> 00:07:00,400
And he said, "Oh, yeah,
she was nude and hogtied."
105
00:07:02,030 --> 00:07:04,000
And I was like, "What?"
106
00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,470
And I just remember
sitting back like...
107
00:07:12,900 --> 00:07:14,570
"We need to get out of here."
108
00:07:17,870 --> 00:07:19,800
That's crazy, that story.
109
00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,400
Um, I don't know
if my mom had told you,
110
00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,200
but there was like a set
of murders up there.
111
00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,870
And they were hogtied
and thrown into ditches,
112
00:07:27,870 --> 00:07:32,330
and it's such a specific way
of killing someone.
113
00:07:33,270 --> 00:07:37,000
You know, Jim just loved
the hogtie thing.
114
00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,770
But he would hogtie us
with his hands.
115
00:07:39,770 --> 00:07:42,300
He was like,
"I have you hogtied, how are you gonna get out?"
116
00:07:42,300 --> 00:07:45,870
And would be tickling us
until we were screaming bloody murder.
117
00:07:45,870 --> 00:07:51,830
And we would be,
like, coughing, gasping for air, and...
118
00:07:51,830 --> 00:07:54,000
We were children,
and that's... - Yeah.
119
00:07:59,870 --> 00:08:04,730
- Just glad that that's done.
- Hmm.
120
00:08:12,470 --> 00:08:14,230
What really surprised me
121
00:08:14,230 --> 00:08:18,430
was that Michael
had this story of Jim driving him around
122
00:08:18,430 --> 00:08:20,930
and pointing out places
that bodies were found.
123
00:08:20,930 --> 00:08:24,200
Specifically nude,
young women.
124
00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:28,530
He told me that story
without me mentioning Santa Rosa.
125
00:08:28,530 --> 00:08:31,700
So these
really specific details, it makes me go,
126
00:08:31,700 --> 00:08:36,670
"Okay, so either Jim
was obsessed with this case, or he did it."
127
00:08:38,070 --> 00:08:43,170
Michael's terrifying car rideoriginated at Jim'sfamily ranch.
128
00:08:43,170 --> 00:08:48,270
The Mordecai Ranchis this propertyin Occidental, Sebastopol,
129
00:08:48,270 --> 00:08:50,770
which is to the westof Santa Rosa.
130
00:08:50,770 --> 00:08:53,170
It was two little cabins
131
00:08:53,170 --> 00:08:57,030
on 14 acresin the middle of nowhere.
132
00:08:57,030 --> 00:08:59,670
It was so isolated,everything was so isolated.
133
00:08:59,970 --> 00:09:01,130
It's...
134
00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:04,670
creepy.
135
00:09:04,670 --> 00:09:09,800
It's also whereJim raped Val Richie.
136
00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:14,170
I think I'm gonna tryto go the ranchand just see how far that is
137
00:09:14,170 --> 00:09:19,730
from where the Santa Rosahitchhikers' bodies were foundand what the terrain is like.
138
00:09:20,570 --> 00:09:23,130
I mean, it seems
totally plausible on a map
139
00:09:23,130 --> 00:09:28,870
that Jim could have
picked these girls up on the 101
140
00:09:28,870 --> 00:09:31,530
and then taken themto Sebastopol or whatever,let's just say,
141
00:09:31,530 --> 00:09:33,570
or just, like,
done his business and dumped them
142
00:09:33,570 --> 00:09:35,430
and gone back to Sebastopol.
143
00:09:38,030 --> 00:09:42,100
This is, I mean,
just so thick.
144
00:09:42,900 --> 00:09:44,370
So wooded.
145
00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:50,530
Look at all this.
146
00:09:51,500 --> 00:09:53,100
Holy shit.
147
00:09:53,870 --> 00:09:55,300
It's, like, right there.
148
00:09:56,830 --> 00:10:00,330
I am not
getting out of this car alone in this heavily wooded area.
149
00:10:00,330 --> 00:10:04,500
I don't... I have
a very overwhelming feeling right now.
150
00:10:04,500 --> 00:10:10,600
Being here is all making
much more sense rather than staring at a map.
151
00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:15,100
{\an8}I'm like right around
where Kim Allen had been found.
152
00:10:15,100 --> 00:10:19,830
This is so the far
the fuck out here.
153
00:10:19,830 --> 00:10:24,830
There is no way
that someone who did not live and grow up in Santa Rosa
154
00:10:24,830 --> 00:10:30,270
or spent
a shit ton of time here knew where this was.
155
00:10:30,270 --> 00:10:33,830
That was...
I'm so uncomfortable.
156
00:10:33,830 --> 00:10:36,030
I'm so uncomfortable
right now.
157
00:10:37,500 --> 00:10:39,430
{\an8}Those poor kids.
158
00:10:50,100 --> 00:10:51,900
There are justtoo many coincidences
159
00:10:51,900 --> 00:10:53,700
between these storiesabout Jim
160
00:10:53,700 --> 00:10:55,800
and the Santa Rosa
hitchhike murders.
161
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,930
At this point,I think I need to geta professional involved.
162
00:11:01,930 --> 00:11:03,470
Someone who has experience
163
00:11:03,470 --> 00:11:05,670
investigatingunsolved murders.
164
00:11:11,370 --> 00:11:13,700
{\an8}- Hi.
- Hi.
165
00:11:13,700 --> 00:11:15,930
{\an8}- Nice to meet you.
- Hi. Nina. How are you?
166
00:11:15,930 --> 00:11:18,130
{\an8}- Sierra. Good to meet you.
- Take a seat.
167
00:11:19,030 --> 00:11:21,730
So what is it
that makes you think
168
00:11:21,730 --> 00:11:25,330
that this person
is this serial killer?
169
00:11:25,930 --> 00:11:27,770
Jim had a history
170
00:11:27,770 --> 00:11:33,100
of raping girls
that were in the age range of 12 to their early 20s.
171
00:11:33,100 --> 00:11:36,230
I've been doing
a lot of research and I've come across
172
00:11:36,230 --> 00:11:40,300
this unsolved serial killer
case in Santa Rosa
173
00:11:40,300 --> 00:11:41,770
called the Santa Rosa
Hitchhike Murders
174
00:11:41,770 --> 00:11:45,070
and all of these girls
that go missing in Santa Rosa
175
00:11:45,070 --> 00:11:48,070
and then
are later found murdered were in that age range.
176
00:11:48,070 --> 00:11:49,300
Okay.
177
00:11:49,300 --> 00:11:54,030
And there are
a lot of things that he said and did
178
00:11:54,030 --> 00:11:58,470
that kind of made us go, like,
"Huh. That's really specific and odd."
179
00:11:59,430 --> 00:12:02,030
So when were the murders?
180
00:12:02,030 --> 00:12:04,730
They were in 1972 and 1973.
181
00:12:04,730 --> 00:12:07,970
Okay. So I need hear
what you've got first.
182
00:12:07,970 --> 00:12:10,230
Mm-hmm. I'd love
to kind of walk you through.
183
00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:13,900
I have this map
of Santa Rosa. - Okay.
184
00:12:14,470 --> 00:12:16,000
So if we can put a green dot
185
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:17,570
- for where
they went missing... - Hmm-hmm.
186
00:12:17,570 --> 00:12:21,000
and then a red dot
for where their bodies were found...
187
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,900
Okay, so the first girls
that go missing
188
00:12:23,900 --> 00:12:26,500
{\an8}are Yvonne Weberand Maureen Sterling.
189
00:12:26,500 --> 00:12:29,130
And this was the Ice Arena.
190
00:12:29,130 --> 00:12:31,500
And they were there
on a Friday night,
191
00:12:31,500 --> 00:12:34,470
hanging out
in this general sort of area.
192
00:12:34,470 --> 00:12:38,900
- And they were found
up here together. - Right.
193
00:12:38,900 --> 00:12:44,970
{\an8}So the next girl
who goes missing is Kim Allen. - Okay.
194
00:12:44,970 --> 00:12:47,670
{\an8}But she's found
right around here
195
00:12:47,670 --> 00:12:49,800
{\an8}- the following day.
- The following day.
196
00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,930
{\an8}Nextis Jeannette Kamahele.
197
00:12:51,930 --> 00:12:56,430
{\an8}She's last seen on the 101
off ramp in Cotati,
198
00:12:56,430 --> 00:12:58,300
{\an8}and she's never been found.
199
00:12:58,300 --> 00:13:01,830
{\an8}- Why have they linked her?
Because she was hitchhiking? - Because she was hitchhiking.
200
00:13:01,830 --> 00:13:02,770
{\an8}All right.
201
00:13:02,770 --> 00:13:04,870
{\an8}The next girl to go missing
is Lori Kursa.
202
00:13:04,870 --> 00:13:07,830
{\an8}She was last seen
in Santa Rosa,
203
00:13:07,830 --> 00:13:11,000
{\an8}so she's found
right off of Calistoga Road.
204
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,870
{\an8}- So the next girl
is Carolyn Davis. - Right.
205
00:13:13,870 --> 00:13:16,370
{\an8}She was last seen
around Humboldt County.
206
00:13:16,370 --> 00:13:18,230
So she's found
just 10 feet away
207
00:13:18,230 --> 00:13:20,370
from where Yvonne
and Maureen are.
208
00:13:20,370 --> 00:13:23,670
So he's going back
to his stomping ground?
209
00:13:23,670 --> 00:13:26,770
Right, and it's not like
there's something grand marking it.
210
00:13:26,770 --> 00:13:30,200
Do you know what I'm saying?
You'd have to know that you did it there.
211
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,170
So I would say
that this person is definitely the same person.
212
00:13:34,170 --> 00:13:35,270
Right.
213
00:13:35,270 --> 00:13:39,330
The next girl who goes missing
214
00:13:39,330 --> 00:13:40,930
{\an8}is Theresa Walsh.
215
00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:43,600
{\an8}So she was hitchhiking
216
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,130
up towards
the Humboldt County area.
217
00:13:45,130 --> 00:13:48,370
She ends up being found
in Mark West Creek.
218
00:13:48,370 --> 00:13:51,270
- She was submerged
underneath a log. - Okay.
219
00:13:51,270 --> 00:13:55,370
And then the last girl
is the Jane Doe.
220
00:13:55,370 --> 00:13:58,130
She's found within a 100 yards
of Lori Kursa
221
00:13:58,130 --> 00:13:59,600
and she's
never been identified.
222
00:14:00,630 --> 00:14:02,930
So where does Jim
fit into this?
223
00:14:02,930 --> 00:14:06,570
He was living
at his grandmother's house in Sausalito,
224
00:14:06,570 --> 00:14:08,930
- which is also south of here.
- Right.
225
00:14:08,930 --> 00:14:12,830
But he also has a family ranch
around Sebastopol.
226
00:14:12,830 --> 00:14:13,830
Okay.
227
00:14:13,830 --> 00:14:18,700
That has been in his family
for generations.
228
00:14:18,700 --> 00:14:22,770
And he spent, supposedly,
a lot of time there
229
00:14:22,770 --> 00:14:24,600
during the time
of the murders,
230
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,970
just kind of hanging out.
231
00:14:26,970 --> 00:14:30,170
And it's right
in the middle of nowhere. - Right.
232
00:14:30,830 --> 00:14:31,900
I just wanna get this clear.
233
00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:34,430
At the time that these murders
were all committed,
234
00:14:34,430 --> 00:14:35,930
he was using the ranch?
235
00:14:35,930 --> 00:14:38,270
- Yes.
- Wow.
236
00:14:38,270 --> 00:14:43,300
We know that he attempted
to rape and did rape girls at that cabin.
237
00:14:43,300 --> 00:14:46,770
Was he ever arrested?
Did he have a criminal record?
238
00:14:46,770 --> 00:14:48,330
Not that I know of.
239
00:14:48,330 --> 00:14:51,600
I've never been able to seeany kind of police reportor anything of that.
240
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:52,870
Okay.
241
00:14:52,870 --> 00:14:57,500
But we know that
this is a place that he uses to commit crimes.
242
00:14:58,730 --> 00:15:02,570
So, with all
the information I have, what are the next steps?
243
00:15:02,570 --> 00:15:05,170
So what we'll need
to do is to pull together a package
244
00:15:05,170 --> 00:15:07,700
and then eventually
go to the police,
245
00:15:07,700 --> 00:15:11,630
but from what I know now,
it's very circumstantial.
246
00:15:11,630 --> 00:15:13,430
I need to know lots more.
247
00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:15,670
- Mm-hmm.
- You need to find solid evidence.
248
00:15:15,670 --> 00:15:17,870
- Okay.
- That could make all the difference.
249
00:15:33,470 --> 00:15:36,900
I'm heading
to the storage unit
250
00:15:36,900 --> 00:15:43,900
to go see what my mom
and grandma kept after Jim died.
251
00:15:45,570 --> 00:15:47,700
And as far as I know,
252
00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:54,130
it's pretty much
been in there untouched since 2008, when he died.
253
00:15:56,130 --> 00:16:00,200
He had gone to the doctor
because he thought he had pneumonia,
254
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:05,530
but when they did an X-ray,they found that he had cancer.
255
00:16:05,530 --> 00:16:08,800
{\an8}It was called Leiomyosarcoma
256
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:13,170
and starts in the stomach
area and travels.
257
00:16:13,170 --> 00:16:15,670
And it had traveled
up to his lungs
258
00:16:15,670 --> 00:16:19,030
and by the end,it was in his brain also.
259
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:22,170
- Hey.
- Hi, how are you?
260
00:16:22,170 --> 00:16:25,830
Jimhad a cancer that justtook him really fast.
261
00:16:25,830 --> 00:16:28,130
And my mom callsand she says
262
00:16:28,130 --> 00:16:32,130
{\an8}with a clear, crisp voice
like I've never heard.
263
00:16:32,130 --> 00:16:36,430
"Shannon, we're safe,
we don't have to be worried anymore."
264
00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:42,030
Ugh. Oh, my goodness!
265
00:16:43,330 --> 00:16:44,770
- Let's get this out.
- This is good.
266
00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:49,270
Oh, I wonder what's in here.
267
00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:53,870
So which one
do we wanna get down and out first?
268
00:16:53,870 --> 00:16:55,370
The trunk?
269
00:16:57,430 --> 00:16:58,870
Does it have a handle?
270
00:16:58,870 --> 00:17:00,730
- This handle's broke.
- Mine, too.
271
00:17:00,730 --> 00:17:03,100
Oh, be careful.
272
00:17:03,100 --> 00:17:05,600
Don't hurt yourself.
273
00:17:07,430 --> 00:17:08,630
Okay.
274
00:17:14,770 --> 00:17:16,800
Oh, my goodness!
275
00:17:19,730 --> 00:17:24,170
Oh, look at the picture
of Sierra.
276
00:17:24,170 --> 00:17:26,270
This one's the cutest.
277
00:17:26,270 --> 00:17:30,000
Oh! Look at Sierra.
278
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,570
Do you wanna
take this home? - Yes.
279
00:17:32,570 --> 00:17:34,600
Timex watch.
280
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,130
What's that...
I can't see what that says.
281
00:17:37,130 --> 00:17:40,130
"Indigo WR 30 M"
282
00:17:40,130 --> 00:17:42,430
- It is a Timex.
- He wore it all the time, right?
283
00:17:42,430 --> 00:17:43,970
- He did.
- Yeah, he did.
284
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,900
Is that his writing? - I think so.
285
00:17:48,900 --> 00:17:51,130
You had said
he didn't write much.
286
00:17:51,130 --> 00:17:54,870
He told me that he never
wrote anything down. - Why?
287
00:17:54,870 --> 00:17:57,030
It could be used against him.
288
00:17:57,870 --> 00:17:59,770
Used against him in what way?
289
00:17:59,770 --> 00:18:02,430
I don't know.
That makes you wonder.
290
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:06,770
That's his hair clippers.
291
00:18:06,770 --> 00:18:08,230
The last time
I used those,
292
00:18:08,230 --> 00:18:13,230
I cut all his hair off
'cause he was going through chemo.
293
00:18:13,230 --> 00:18:15,700
Open it
or leave it in there? - Leave it in there.
294
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:22,130
Do you notice there's not
a lot of pictures of him?
295
00:18:22,130 --> 00:18:24,600
- Think he threw some away?
- I don't know.
296
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:25,800
This is the... - Wait.
297
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:27,530
This is the ski trip.
298
00:18:27,530 --> 00:18:30,470
Ugh!
That's the last time I skied too,
299
00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:32,770
because it was
such an awful trip.
300
00:18:32,770 --> 00:18:34,130
Why was that trip awful?
301
00:18:34,130 --> 00:18:39,030
He hit my head with the trunk
'cause he was just mad.
302
00:18:39,530 --> 00:18:40,770
I didn't know that.
303
00:18:40,770 --> 00:18:43,170
Oh, yeah, it hurt really bad.
304
00:18:44,230 --> 00:18:46,470
I had to kind of watch him.
305
00:18:46,470 --> 00:18:48,770
- Watch him for what?
- Why did you have to watch him?
306
00:18:48,770 --> 00:18:52,400
Because he was always
going to do something.
307
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,700
You know, I think
I was worried he was gonna hurt somebody.
308
00:18:55,700 --> 00:18:57,630
Speaking of which,
there it is.
309
00:18:58,330 --> 00:19:00,230
Oh, my gosh.
310
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,470
That knife!
311
00:19:02,470 --> 00:19:04,800
Yeah, the knife I found
in your garage when we were packing up.
312
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:09,070
So it's the one he had shoved
in the garage and then shoved down in a corner
313
00:19:09,070 --> 00:19:11,000
behind a bunch of stuff,
just, like, in here.
314
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,570
And I said to you,
"What's up with this knife?"
315
00:19:13,570 --> 00:19:16,230
And you said,
"Oh, he used to drive around with that in his truck."
316
00:19:16,230 --> 00:19:17,830
Yeah, it was in his truck.
317
00:19:19,070 --> 00:19:20,630
If you're a hunter,
you might have that.
318
00:19:20,630 --> 00:19:22,470
- But he didn't hunt.
- I know.
319
00:19:22,470 --> 00:19:24,830
So why have a knife
like that, you know?
320
00:19:25,970 --> 00:19:28,000
Why would you
drive with this in your car?
321
00:19:30,100 --> 00:19:32,870
It makes sensethat whoever committedthese murders
322
00:19:32,870 --> 00:19:36,430
would have hadsome sort of weaponto subdue these girls.
323
00:19:37,170 --> 00:19:38,970
Many of these victims' bodies
324
00:19:38,970 --> 00:19:42,100
weren't discovereduntil monthsafter their abductions,
325
00:19:42,100 --> 00:19:45,570
so it was difficult to knowjust how they were killed.
326
00:19:48,370 --> 00:19:50,000
But we know for sure
327
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,670
that Jim carried that knifewith him in his carall the time
328
00:19:53,670 --> 00:19:57,230
and sometimes,he had a loaded gun with him.
329
00:19:57,230 --> 00:19:59,930
And there weremore weapons at home.
330
00:20:03,070 --> 00:20:04,300
After he died,
331
00:20:04,300 --> 00:20:07,930
my mom and Iwere packing everything upto put in storage.
332
00:20:08,900 --> 00:20:10,230
I'm sweepingunderneath the bed,
333
00:20:10,230 --> 00:20:15,630
and I find three guns
and they're loaded.
334
00:20:15,630 --> 00:20:17,370
Fully loaded,all safeties off.
335
00:20:17,370 --> 00:20:23,030
Which, if you're a gun owner,
safeties are not off and they're not under a bed.
336
00:20:23,030 --> 00:20:25,000
And I said,
"Why are these guns here?"
337
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:26,770
She said,
"I had to hide them." I said, "Why?"
338
00:20:26,770 --> 00:20:28,370
She's like,
"He was gonna shoot me."
339
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,270
- Hi, Grandma.
- Hi, See!
340
00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:40,200
Okay.
341
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:44,400
I wanted to just talk to you
342
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,700
about the guns that were found
in the house after Jim died.
343
00:20:47,700 --> 00:20:51,630
Can you just walk me
through what happened after he died with that?
344
00:20:51,630 --> 00:20:53,600
Like, roughly how many
were there?
345
00:20:54,370 --> 00:20:55,370
At least four.
346
00:20:55,370 --> 00:20:57,900
- At least four, if not more?
- Yes.
347
00:20:57,900 --> 00:21:00,330
Do you remember
what kind of guns?
348
00:21:00,330 --> 00:21:06,970
There was a pistol
and that was next to his bed. It was a revolver.
349
00:21:06,970 --> 00:21:11,500
- And I know
about the survival rifle. - Mm-hmm.
350
00:21:11,500 --> 00:21:15,600
I had hidden one
because I was afraid he was going to use it.
351
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,970
Oh, jeez.
Were you afraid at night? When you were sleeping?
352
00:21:17,970 --> 00:21:20,930
No, that's just
the weird part of it.
353
00:21:20,930 --> 00:21:26,000
I think that things just...
354
00:21:27,170 --> 00:21:30,470
gradually got so bizarre,
but it seemed normal.
355
00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:34,800
- Do you know what I'm saying?
- Like, he slowly upped the ante on that stuff.
356
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,100
Yeah, just little by little.
357
00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:40,970
So we had searched
all over the house,
358
00:21:40,970 --> 00:21:44,430
and found these
and took 'em
359
00:21:44,430 --> 00:21:47,470
to the police department.
360
00:21:47,470 --> 00:21:49,230
Okay.
361
00:21:49,230 --> 00:21:53,000
We take the gunsto the police department.
362
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,870
I said to the lady,"I think my stepdadmight have killed people."
363
00:21:55,870 --> 00:21:57,400
She was like,
"We'll check the guns out
364
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,100
and if they
come back for anything, we'll let you know."
365
00:22:00,530 --> 00:22:01,830
And that was it.
366
00:22:01,830 --> 00:22:03,500
I think that she was like,
367
00:22:03,500 --> 00:22:07,770
"Oh, another crazy lady
thinking her stepdad was a murderer."
368
00:22:10,130 --> 00:22:12,000
I don't knowif we'll ever know,
369
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,030
but I think
if somebody
370
00:22:15,030 --> 00:22:17,300
pushes enough,
371
00:22:17,300 --> 00:22:20,370
we can figure out
if Jim was the Santa Rosa Hitchhike Murderer.
372
00:22:23,230 --> 00:22:26,970
I just thinkpeople need to careto be able to do it.
373
00:22:35,500 --> 00:22:38,530
I have this memorythat just came backto me recently.
374
00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:41,870
I was in Judy and Jim's house.
375
00:22:41,870 --> 00:22:44,630
That house had,
like, a basement.
376
00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:48,030
And in that rec room,
there was like a big closet. And in that closet,
377
00:22:48,030 --> 00:22:50,200
was Jaime's barbie collection.
378
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,100
She had all the best,
expensive barbies.
379
00:22:55,100 --> 00:22:57,900
And Jaime never let me
touch those barbies.
380
00:22:57,900 --> 00:23:00,330
That was likethe big "No, no, no."
381
00:23:01,330 --> 00:23:05,700
And... Jaime says to me,
382
00:23:05,700 --> 00:23:08,530
"Go downstairs,
and you can play with my barbies."
383
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,400
And I was so excited,
but also, like, could hear, like,
384
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,570
thumping upstairs,
and yelling,
385
00:23:17,570 --> 00:23:19,900
and was like,
"What is going on?"
386
00:23:21,740 --> 00:23:23,070
Something's going on
387
00:23:23,070 --> 00:23:24,670
that she would let me play
with them.
388
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,430
My mom...
389
00:23:28,430 --> 00:23:30,200
...at some point, came down,
390
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,940
and, like, in a fury,
packed our stuff,
391
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,600
and put us in the car.
392
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,100
It's kind of like
this really...
393
00:23:38,100 --> 00:23:39,300
"Ahhh."
394
00:23:39,300 --> 00:23:41,600
And then we get in the car,
it's like...
395
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,500
I knew that something badhad happened,
396
00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:47,900
because after that, my grandma
was not in my life anymore.
397
00:23:47,900 --> 00:23:51,500
I never went
to Santa Rosa again until Jim was dead.
398
00:23:53,130 --> 00:23:55,300
It wasn't until years laterthat I had learned
399
00:23:55,300 --> 00:23:58,840
what had happenedbetween Jim and my momearlier that night.
400
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,940
At the time, her carhad broken down,
401
00:24:00,940 --> 00:24:03,740
and we were stayingwith Jim and my grandma.
402
00:24:03,740 --> 00:24:05,330
Get Mommy a tissue.
403
00:24:06,100 --> 00:24:07,940
{\an8}I need one more class
to finish
404
00:24:07,940 --> 00:24:09,400
{\an8}my teaching credential.
405
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,330
The catch is, I have to stay
406
00:24:11,330 --> 00:24:12,840
at my mom's for that month.
407
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,030
There's Papa.
408
00:24:15,030 --> 00:24:18,470
And Jim had to drive me
to my college class.
409
00:24:23,030 --> 00:24:25,840
It was a night class.My momma watched Sierra.
410
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:27,770
It was, like, dusk,when I got out.
411
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,400
Leaving from Sonoma Stateto Santa Rosa,
412
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,230
{\an8}you can bypass the highway
413
00:24:34,230 --> 00:24:38,630
{\an8}and drive a roadthat's parallelto the highway,
414
00:24:38,630 --> 00:24:40,800
{\an8}and parallel to these hills,
415
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,430
{\an8}which is...was a local shortcut.
416
00:24:45,530 --> 00:24:47,770
I have not been on this road
417
00:24:47,770 --> 00:24:50,370
since that... drive.
418
00:24:50,370 --> 00:24:53,500
But I know exactly
where it is.
419
00:24:55,500 --> 00:24:58,430
You can see 101 there,
and I'm like, "Okay. So, we're getting...
420
00:24:58,430 --> 00:25:01,600
We're going to be getting
pretty close, we're just going to take this road home."
421
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,200
- And how is he acting
right now? - Just as normal.
422
00:25:05,100 --> 00:25:09,800
And, abruptly, he...
takes a right-hand turn.
423
00:25:12,900 --> 00:25:15,500
And he didn't say,
"Hey, I'm going to take this other road."
424
00:25:15,500 --> 00:25:19,740
And he quickly goes into,like, race-car mode.
425
00:25:19,740 --> 00:25:22,170
And his face changes,
426
00:25:22,170 --> 00:25:24,270
his voice changes.
427
00:25:24,270 --> 00:25:25,840
Like, everything changes.
428
00:25:28,070 --> 00:25:29,530
I don't even dare talk to him,
429
00:25:29,530 --> 00:25:30,970
like, he's flying
through here.
430
00:25:30,970 --> 00:25:33,270
And I remember
this fence, actually, like...
431
00:25:36,230 --> 00:25:37,700
And I can't rememberwhat he said,
432
00:25:37,700 --> 00:25:42,070
but it is the samekind of feeling I'm left withas the phone calls
433
00:25:42,070 --> 00:25:44,430
I was getting when I was
in high school,
434
00:25:44,430 --> 00:25:47,400
the violence that he wasgoing to do to me,
435
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,840
and the sexual thingshe was going to do to me.
436
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,400
I knew that
that was when that moment was going to happen.
437
00:25:56,430 --> 00:25:59,670
I'm like, "I'm gonna...
I got to jump out, or how am I going to get out of here?"
438
00:25:59,670 --> 00:26:01,630
My left hand's
on the seat belt.
439
00:26:01,630 --> 00:26:03,200
My right hand's on the door.
440
00:26:04,740 --> 00:26:06,570
I definitely...
441
00:26:06,570 --> 00:26:08,770
- feared that he was
going to kill me. - Mmm-hmm.
442
00:26:10,740 --> 00:26:12,000
I think to myself,
443
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,000
"I can either jump outright now, get really hurt,
444
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,840
or I am going to try to,like, outwit him,
445
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,200
and get him to snap outof this thing he's in."
446
00:26:20,870 --> 00:26:22,900
And he slows
into this turnout,
447
00:26:23,740 --> 00:26:25,130
and I say,
448
00:26:25,130 --> 00:26:27,700
"We'd better get back,it's getting late."
449
00:26:28,870 --> 00:26:30,070
And Jim goes,
450
00:26:31,370 --> 00:26:32,800
"We'd better get back."
451
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:35,740
And he just
drives off normally.
452
00:26:38,070 --> 00:26:39,740
And, meanwhile, I'm like,
453
00:26:39,740 --> 00:26:41,940
"Oh, my God.
454
00:26:41,940 --> 00:26:44,100
I don't even know who that was.
455
00:26:44,100 --> 00:26:46,600
I don't know whatjust happened.
456
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,800
But I'm donewith this crazy shit."
457
00:26:51,300 --> 00:26:53,670
I remember getting outof the car and just goingin the house,
458
00:26:53,670 --> 00:26:55,070
and I'm thinking to myself,
459
00:26:55,070 --> 00:26:57,770
"I got to get out of here.I never want to dealwith him again."
460
00:26:57,770 --> 00:27:00,700
I packed up everythingthat I had in minutes.
461
00:27:00,700 --> 00:27:05,840
And I said to my mom,"If you're with him, I canno longer be around you.
462
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:07,470
And I need Sierrato stay safe,
463
00:27:07,470 --> 00:27:10,600
and I need me
to be safe, and I don't feel safe around him."
464
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,740
And... she stayed around him.
465
00:27:13,740 --> 00:27:16,630
And we didn't have
a relationship for...
466
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,670
probably over ten years.
467
00:27:26,670 --> 00:27:29,430
I'm really overwhelmed
right now, like, for real.
468
00:27:29,430 --> 00:27:31,070
- For real.
- For real?
469
00:27:31,070 --> 00:27:33,430
Because this is the road
that I took...
470
00:27:34,130 --> 00:27:35,870
{\an8}to look for Kim Allen's body.
471
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,400
Kim Allen's body
is only 25 feet down there.
472
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,670
- So it's right there?
- So, it's... it's really close off
473
00:27:48,670 --> 00:27:50,400
- down the road.
- And it's not a steep hill.
474
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,400
No, I mean,
you would see her. - Mmm-hmm.
475
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,800
Who's to say
he wasn't going to take you here?
476
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,200
And instead, he was like,
"Okay, no, we'll go back to the house,"
477
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:58,600
and went back to Santa Rosa.
478
00:27:59,370 --> 00:28:00,500
I mean, it's really...
479
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,970
And that it was just,
you know, a month of him driving me the same way,
480
00:28:08,970 --> 00:28:12,100
and then just...
481
00:28:12,100 --> 00:28:14,630
Well, and the similarities
to... of the road that you were on,
482
00:28:14,630 --> 00:28:16,600
with, like, this one side
that's a hill,
483
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,870
and then the other side,
that's an embankment down.
484
00:28:18,870 --> 00:28:21,500
And he's... And he's actively,
like, driving...
485
00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:23,840
It's almost as if he's seeing,
"Is this is a good spot...
486
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:24,800
- To... Yeah.
- ...No, maybe it's not.
487
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:26,700
Is this a good one?
No, it's not."
488
00:28:26,700 --> 00:28:28,570
And, again, it's one
of those things,
489
00:28:28,570 --> 00:28:30,900
that every time you look
at what he's done,
490
00:28:32,330 --> 00:28:36,000
it doesn't point away
from him. It points...
491
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,570
- To him.
- ...to him.
492
00:28:37,570 --> 00:28:39,170
Do you want to get back
in the car?
493
00:28:39,170 --> 00:28:40,500
- Yeah.
- Okay.
494
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,470
I'm researchingother incidents
495
00:28:51,470 --> 00:28:55,200
of women being abductedin Northern California.
496
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,870
And one story I findactually gives me the chills,
497
00:28:58,870 --> 00:29:02,270
and completely shiftsthe focus of my investigation.
498
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,840
It was almost verbatim
what had happened to my mom with Jim.
499
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,330
In 1970, there is
this abduction
500
00:29:11,330 --> 00:29:13,470
of a woman,
named Kathleen Johns.
501
00:29:17,740 --> 00:29:19,200
She's driving her car,
502
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:20,940
and this personcomes up behind her
503
00:29:20,940 --> 00:29:22,430
and starts flashingtheir lights.
504
00:29:23,530 --> 00:29:26,000
She pulls overbecause she thinkssomething's wrong.
505
00:29:26,870 --> 00:29:28,400
That person tells her,
506
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:29,570
"Hey, your tire's loose.
507
00:29:29,570 --> 00:29:31,270
Let me tighten it.
Don't worry, I have a tool."
508
00:29:31,270 --> 00:29:32,530
So, they tighten it.
509
00:29:32,530 --> 00:29:34,200
And then she gets back
on the road,
510
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,870
and all of a sudden,
the wheel starts to come off.
511
00:29:36,870 --> 00:29:39,500
So, the person
had clearly loosened the wheel.
512
00:29:40,700 --> 00:29:43,300
The person comes back upto her, and is like,
513
00:29:43,300 --> 00:29:45,800
"I can drive youto this gas station,
514
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,030
and we can get you helpto fix the car.
515
00:29:48,030 --> 00:29:49,500
Go ahead and hop in my car."
516
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,130
She has her baby with her.
517
00:29:53,940 --> 00:29:55,470
She gets in the car,
518
00:29:55,940 --> 00:29:57,970
and they're driving.
519
00:29:57,970 --> 00:30:01,630
And suddenly, this personjust switches.
520
00:30:02,370 --> 00:30:03,800
He's taunting her,
521
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,330
and telling her the...
how they're going to kill her,
522
00:30:06,330 --> 00:30:08,740
and they're swerving,
and being erratic.
523
00:30:08,740 --> 00:30:10,670
And she is now
starting to think,
524
00:30:10,670 --> 00:30:12,030
"Okay, I got to getout of this car,
525
00:30:12,030 --> 00:30:13,570
because he'sgoing to kill me."
526
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:16,670
She sees an opportunityto jump.
527
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:18,800
She jumps out of the car,
528
00:30:19,370 --> 00:30:21,300
and she runs.
529
00:30:21,300 --> 00:30:24,770
She waves down a vehicle,and they take herto the police station.
530
00:30:26,230 --> 00:30:27,970
While she's
at the police station,
531
00:30:27,970 --> 00:30:29,870
they're questioning her
about what happened,
532
00:30:29,870 --> 00:30:33,740
and she sees this sketchon the wall. And she said,
533
00:30:33,740 --> 00:30:37,070
"That's the guy.
That's the guy who abducted me,
534
00:30:37,070 --> 00:30:38,430
{\an8}the Zodiac Killer."
535
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:42,740
In the late '60s,
536
00:30:42,740 --> 00:30:45,170
the San Francisco Bay Areawas terrorized
537
00:30:45,170 --> 00:30:49,770
by a mysterious maniac,who claims to havecommitted 37 murders
538
00:30:49,770 --> 00:30:51,470
One of the nation'smost infamous,
539
00:30:51,470 --> 00:30:53,200
unsolved serial killers.
540
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:54,130
- The Zodiac...
- Zodiac...
541
00:30:54,130 --> 00:30:55,100
The Zodiac...
542
00:30:55,100 --> 00:30:57,800
We have reason to believe
that he's a maniac.
543
00:30:58,330 --> 00:31:00,230
However, he is a...
544
00:31:00,230 --> 00:31:02,970
cunning man.
He knows just exactly
545
00:31:02,970 --> 00:31:04,700
what moves he's going to make.
546
00:31:06,070 --> 00:31:07,400
It appears to us
547
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,030
that he is killing
just for the thrill.
548
00:31:12,170 --> 00:31:13,270
{\an8}Police linked the Zodiac
549
00:31:13,270 --> 00:31:14,840
{\an8}to five killingsin the Bay Area,
550
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,030
but he may have beenresponsible for more.
551
00:31:18,030 --> 00:31:21,270
In 1970,the Zodiac writes a letterto the Chronicle,
552
00:31:21,270 --> 00:31:23,670
stating that he's going tochange up his MO.
553
00:31:24,430 --> 00:31:26,430
And right around this time,
554
00:31:26,430 --> 00:31:29,300
the Santa Rosa
hitchhiker murders start happening.
555
00:31:30,230 --> 00:31:31,840
No dates overlap.
556
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:33,970
When killings stopin one locale,
557
00:31:33,970 --> 00:31:35,740
they begin in another.
558
00:31:35,740 --> 00:31:38,400
If the Zodiac
is indeed responsible
559
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,530
for the deaths of these girls,
560
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,100
then is it possible that Jim
561
00:31:44,100 --> 00:31:45,630
could be the Zodiac?
562
00:31:58,030 --> 00:32:00,530
The Zodiac'sNorthern Californiacrime spree
563
00:32:00,530 --> 00:32:03,870
took place from 1968 to 1970.
564
00:32:05,100 --> 00:32:07,100
The Santa Rosahitchhiker murderer
565
00:32:07,100 --> 00:32:10,930
was active from 1972 to 1973.
566
00:32:12,270 --> 00:32:14,470
So, there a lot of peoplewho believe
567
00:32:14,470 --> 00:32:19,330
that the Zodiac evolved
into the Santa Rosa hitchhiker murderer.
568
00:32:19,330 --> 00:32:21,070
{\an8}And I was like,
"This is getting weird.
569
00:32:21,070 --> 00:32:23,100
{\an8}Like, ah...
It's too far out there."
570
00:32:23,100 --> 00:32:26,930
But I know of a picture
of Jim, where I'm like,
571
00:32:26,930 --> 00:32:28,130
"Oh, my God.
572
00:32:29,930 --> 00:32:32,300
They look so similar."
573
00:32:33,370 --> 00:32:36,100
Wow, you know,
he really does look like
574
00:32:36,100 --> 00:32:39,300
these pictures of Jim in 1969.
575
00:32:39,300 --> 00:32:43,100
Granted, you look back,
and almost every guy looks like this, you know,
576
00:32:43,100 --> 00:32:44,830
with the... with the crew cut,
577
00:32:44,830 --> 00:32:47,330
and... and
the black-rimmed glasses.
578
00:32:47,330 --> 00:32:49,300
So, I started the research
579
00:32:49,300 --> 00:32:51,270
to quiet my mind,
to, like, just be like,
580
00:32:51,270 --> 00:32:52,600
"Sierra, you're being crazy,"
581
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:57,100
and find... find the thing
that would knock him off the list.
582
00:32:57,100 --> 00:32:59,770
But every timeI go to do that,
583
00:32:59,770 --> 00:33:03,730
I find these weird things
that I can't definitively say,
584
00:33:04,430 --> 00:33:05,630
"No, it's not him."
585
00:33:05,630 --> 00:33:06,670
He was a man,
586
00:33:07,300 --> 00:33:08,970
uh, heavy build...
587
00:33:08,970 --> 00:33:11,630
The Zodiac had, like,
a stocky, athletic build.
588
00:33:11,630 --> 00:33:14,270
Jim was very stocky,
very athletic.
589
00:33:14,270 --> 00:33:16,670
Short cropped hair.
590
00:33:16,670 --> 00:33:19,330
Possibly wearing
red-tinted glasses.
591
00:33:20,700 --> 00:33:22,970
And the shoe size,
592
00:33:22,970 --> 00:33:25,800
the shoe print they found,was a ten-and-a-half.
593
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,600
Jim wore size 10.5.
594
00:33:29,900 --> 00:33:35,430
The Zodiac has a description
as being... 5'8'' to 5'10''.
595
00:33:35,430 --> 00:33:38,500
Jim was in that height range.
596
00:33:38,500 --> 00:33:41,100
So, all of that is nothing,
597
00:33:41,100 --> 00:33:45,900
really, if you're justa person who, like,lives a fairly normal life.
598
00:33:45,900 --> 00:33:49,430
But if you're a person who hasa history of violence,
599
00:33:49,430 --> 00:33:53,270
psychotic behavior,and delusional fantasies,
600
00:33:53,270 --> 00:33:55,770
you start to go,"Does this mean something?
601
00:33:55,770 --> 00:33:59,500
Or is this justa really bizarre,weird coincidence?"
602
00:34:03,670 --> 00:34:05,830
If the Zodiac killerdid evolve
603
00:34:05,830 --> 00:34:08,130
into the Santa Rosahitchhiker murderer,
604
00:34:08,130 --> 00:34:11,330
then I need to takea closer look at someof the Zodiac crimes.
605
00:34:11,330 --> 00:34:13,900
to see if there isany connections to Jim.
606
00:34:14,700 --> 00:34:16,630
So, I'm headedto Lake Berryessa,
607
00:34:16,630 --> 00:34:19,970
a large recreation lakejust north of San Francisco,
608
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,370
where in 1969,
609
00:34:22,370 --> 00:34:24,730
the Zodiac attackeda young couple.
610
00:34:28,230 --> 00:34:29,730
Early last Saturday evening,
611
00:34:30,500 --> 00:34:32,730
Cecelia Shepardand Bryan Hartnell,
612
00:34:32,730 --> 00:34:34,730
both in their early 20s,
613
00:34:34,730 --> 00:34:38,400
were sitting on this knoll
of land, overlooking part of Lake Berryessa.
614
00:34:39,330 --> 00:34:41,470
They thought they were alone.
615
00:34:41,470 --> 00:34:43,600
But there was a third manon this knoll.
616
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,230
a man who carried
a knife and gun,
617
00:34:46,230 --> 00:34:48,270
and intended to use them.
618
00:34:48,270 --> 00:34:51,430
Tied them up and then just
told them he had to kill 'em.
619
00:34:51,430 --> 00:34:54,530
A hooded man stabbeda 22-year-old woman to death
620
00:34:54,530 --> 00:34:55,770
and attacked her boyfriend,
621
00:34:55,770 --> 00:34:57,600
as the couple satby the lake shore.
622
00:34:59,270 --> 00:35:03,470
I actually havea picture of Jimon a boat, on a lake,
623
00:35:03,470 --> 00:35:05,530
that could be Lake Berryessa.
624
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,700
I have no idea who took it,
625
00:35:08,700 --> 00:35:11,030
but if I can somehow matchthe photo
626
00:35:11,030 --> 00:35:12,900
to the surrounding landscape,
627
00:35:12,900 --> 00:35:17,030
then I can provethat he did, in fact,come to this area,
628
00:35:17,030 --> 00:35:20,370
the very same areathat the Zodiac stalked.
629
00:35:23,630 --> 00:35:25,400
So, this is the photo.
630
00:35:26,670 --> 00:35:28,570
It feels like he's out a bit,
631
00:35:28,570 --> 00:35:31,270
like, the... the hills
behind him are not big.
632
00:35:31,270 --> 00:35:32,700
His head is above them.
633
00:35:32,700 --> 00:35:35,470
So, I feel like I have to
get out to the main area of the lake, I think.
634
00:35:39,170 --> 00:35:42,230
Found this young girllaying on the, uh,shoreline here,
635
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:44,730
all stabbed, in, uh,several places.
636
00:35:47,070 --> 00:35:48,500
{\an8}This is...
637
00:35:48,500 --> 00:35:49,900
one of the worst things
I ever witnessed.
638
00:35:52,100 --> 00:35:55,770
So, somethingthat is kind of with allof the Zodiac crimes,
639
00:35:55,770 --> 00:35:57,470
there's a very voyeuristic...
640
00:35:58,030 --> 00:35:59,870
element to them.
641
00:35:59,870 --> 00:36:02,400
And this one
is particularly horrifying.
642
00:36:04,300 --> 00:36:06,800
What kind of sticks outto me, is that,
643
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,070
you know, Jim had a tendencyto be really voyeuristic.
644
00:36:10,070 --> 00:36:12,570
He was always lurkingand always watching,
645
00:36:12,570 --> 00:36:16,430
which is really whatthe Zodiac did here.
646
00:36:22,830 --> 00:36:24,370
Maybe that's it right there.
647
00:36:29,130 --> 00:36:30,970
He's sitting,
and he's, like...
648
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:33,770
Here.
649
00:36:36,100 --> 00:36:39,230
And the person taking
the photo would have been, like, there.
650
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,470
So, I'm wondering
if they're inside that little inlet,
651
00:36:43,470 --> 00:36:46,200
and then this,
right over here,
652
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,930
could be that island,
but the water was higher at the time.
653
00:36:49,930 --> 00:36:51,670
Because it's not over here,
654
00:36:51,670 --> 00:36:53,770
because there'sa big bridge back there,
655
00:36:53,770 --> 00:36:56,670
and you would seethat big bridgein the photo, I feel like.
656
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:07,100
Around that peninsula,
bend, is the parking lot,
657
00:37:07,100 --> 00:37:09,230
where Bryan Hartnell
658
00:37:09,230 --> 00:37:11,800
and Cecelia Shepardhad parked their car.
659
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:16,870
And they were then attackedon the shoreline.
660
00:37:16,870 --> 00:37:19,770
Of all the places for him
to have taken a photo,
661
00:37:19,770 --> 00:37:21,200
it is pretty weird
662
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,770
that it appears
to have been...
663
00:37:24,770 --> 00:37:26,130
right around here.
664
00:37:30,300 --> 00:37:33,000
The Zodiac knew this area.
665
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,000
And Jim Mordecai knewthis area too.
666
00:37:41,970 --> 00:37:44,770
Now that I'm thinkingthere's a possibility
667
00:37:44,770 --> 00:37:46,970
Jim could have beenthe Zodiac killer,
668
00:37:46,970 --> 00:37:51,530
I'm going to meet with oneof the world's top expertsto find out more.
669
00:37:51,530 --> 00:37:53,570
What was
the first thing that made you attracted
670
00:37:53,570 --> 00:37:55,570
to the Zodiac case?
671
00:37:55,570 --> 00:37:58,070
{\an8}I heard about it
from a homicide detective
672
00:37:58,070 --> 00:38:01,530
{\an8}who lived across the street
from us when I was growing up.
673
00:38:01,530 --> 00:38:03,370
And he used to
kind of mention the Zodiac
674
00:38:03,370 --> 00:38:06,530
as like a boogeyman character,
you know?
675
00:38:06,530 --> 00:38:09,300
So, at a certain point, I...
I start going to the library,
676
00:38:09,300 --> 00:38:11,530
and reading the stories
about the case.
677
00:38:11,530 --> 00:38:12,800
Like a lot of people, it...
678
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,700
the story scared
the hell out of me.
679
00:38:14,700 --> 00:38:18,230
So, it was one
of those fascinating, true crime stories,
680
00:38:18,230 --> 00:38:22,530
made even more fascinating
by the fact that the Zodiac was never caught.
681
00:38:22,530 --> 00:38:25,330
I started out, you know,
just gathering police reports,
682
00:38:25,330 --> 00:38:27,870
autopsy reports,
things like that.
683
00:38:27,870 --> 00:38:30,300
And then, I was able
to start actually
684
00:38:30,300 --> 00:38:32,900
interviewing people
who were involved, and tour
685
00:38:32,900 --> 00:38:36,170
the crime scenes with some
of the original investigators,
686
00:38:36,170 --> 00:38:37,970
and get the actual facts
687
00:38:37,970 --> 00:38:40,030
to find out
what really happened.
688
00:38:40,030 --> 00:38:43,840
So, that helps a lot
in separating fact from fiction.
689
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:50,770
The Zodiac crimes spanfrom December, 1968,
690
00:38:50,770 --> 00:38:53,200
to October, 1969.
691
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,740
The first was an attackon a young couple.
692
00:38:55,740 --> 00:38:58,330
The second was an attackon another couple.
693
00:38:58,330 --> 00:39:02,200
Then, the third attackwas on another coupleat a lake recreation area.
694
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,030
And the fourth attack
was on a lone-male cab driver
695
00:39:05,030 --> 00:39:06,530
in San Francisco.
696
00:39:07,630 --> 00:39:10,400
This has always been known
as a city of mystery.
697
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,430
and it seems now to have a new
and real one on its hands.
698
00:39:13,430 --> 00:39:15,570
Unlike other serial killers,
699
00:39:15,570 --> 00:39:17,530
he wrote letters
to newspapers,
700
00:39:17,530 --> 00:39:19,500
{\an8}he sent ciphers and clues,
701
00:39:19,500 --> 00:39:22,200
{\an8}taunting people with cluesto his identity.
702
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,230
{\an8}He, uh, called the policeto report his crimes.
703
00:39:25,230 --> 00:39:26,600
We're getting many,
many letters
704
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:27,940
and telephone calls,
and everything.
705
00:39:27,940 --> 00:39:31,270
There's no...
no specific person that we suspect
706
00:39:31,270 --> 00:39:33,170
at this time.
707
00:39:33,170 --> 00:39:35,530
You know,in the very beginning,he sent, uh,
708
00:39:35,530 --> 00:39:38,970
letters to three different
Bay Area newspapers.
709
00:39:38,970 --> 00:39:41,900
But for some reason,
he latched onto the Chronicle,
710
00:39:41,900 --> 00:39:43,270
and then they ran with it.
711
00:39:45,940 --> 00:39:47,940
The killerclaimed responsibility,
712
00:39:47,940 --> 00:39:50,030
and promisedeven more bloodshed
713
00:39:50,030 --> 00:39:52,330
in a series of lettersto newspapers.
714
00:39:53,970 --> 00:39:56,000
I was a reporter
715
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:57,970
{\an8}at the San Francisco Chronicle
716
00:39:57,970 --> 00:40:00,030
{\an8}during the 1970s.
717
00:40:01,670 --> 00:40:07,000
Now, you've got a killerwho is bragging about it,and taunting the police
718
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:08,500
for not being ableto catch him,
719
00:40:08,500 --> 00:40:12,100
or seeing if they
could solve this puzzle.
720
00:40:12,100 --> 00:40:15,230
I've always kind of
thought of Zodiac as a...
721
00:40:15,230 --> 00:40:16,700
an early terrorist,
722
00:40:16,700 --> 00:40:21,070
in a sense that, he was
able to use the media
723
00:40:21,070 --> 00:40:24,900
to spread fear, uh,throughout the community.
724
00:40:24,900 --> 00:40:27,900
Because, even though
the killing
725
00:40:27,900 --> 00:40:32,840
in October, 1969,was the last known murder
726
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,130
by Zodiac, he continued
to send letters,
727
00:40:36,130 --> 00:40:39,800
threatening letters
to the newspaper for the next few years.
728
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,840
There it was,in the Chronicle this morning,like a nightmare revisited,
729
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,230
the letter from the Zodiac,
730
00:40:44,230 --> 00:40:46,570
Stylistically similarto the ones written before,
731
00:40:46,570 --> 00:40:49,130
this Zodiac letter referredto the movie, The Exorcist.
732
00:40:49,130 --> 00:40:53,170
He said he had seen a movie
that stimulated him to write this letter. And, uh,
733
00:40:53,170 --> 00:40:57,940
uh... That's, you know,
that's likely determined at this time.
734
00:40:57,940 --> 00:40:59,500
This is the first letterfrom the Zodiac
735
00:40:59,500 --> 00:41:00,530
in nearly three years.
736
00:41:00,530 --> 00:41:02,270
It was probably mailed,Tuesday,
737
00:41:02,270 --> 00:41:04,430
from either San Mateo,or Santa Clara County.
738
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,900
And the Zodiacwasn't the only oneinterested in exorcisms.
739
00:41:10,770 --> 00:41:13,740
Jim would talk
about performing an exorcism.
740
00:41:16,070 --> 00:41:18,100
I remember, as a freshman,
741
00:41:18,100 --> 00:41:20,200
{\an8}I'm just going
to my ag science class
742
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,870
{\an8}to get my "easy A" from
this "easy-A" teacher.
743
00:41:23,870 --> 00:41:27,370
And Jim's standing up
in front of class,
744
00:41:27,370 --> 00:41:31,800
and he is talking about
his house being possessed.
745
00:41:32,630 --> 00:41:35,300
And that, to get rid
of this demon,
746
00:41:35,300 --> 00:41:37,000
he has to perform an exorcism.
747
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,600
So, he has to go
get holy water,
748
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,030
he has to get his bible out,
read specific verses.
749
00:41:46,370 --> 00:41:48,500
And I remember
being in class, like,
750
00:41:49,070 --> 00:41:50,670
"Nobody else hearing this?"
751
00:41:54,870 --> 00:41:57,370
Uh, what is it
that you see, that makes you think
752
00:41:57,370 --> 00:42:00,740
that your grandfather
could possibly be the Zodiac?
753
00:42:00,740 --> 00:42:02,770
You know, he liked
to taunt people.
754
00:42:02,770 --> 00:42:05,430
So, he liked to have power
over people.
755
00:42:05,430 --> 00:42:06,900
It's interesting
that you say that,
756
00:42:06,900 --> 00:42:13,500
because it seems like
that was part of the game that Zodiac created.
757
00:42:13,500 --> 00:42:17,170
You know, he's...
he's basically taunting you to get involved.
758
00:42:17,170 --> 00:42:19,370
- Mmm-hmm.
- You know, "Try and catch me.
759
00:42:19,370 --> 00:42:21,270
Here's my name and a cipher."
760
00:42:23,170 --> 00:42:25,970
The Zodiac case
has been buried in myth...
761
00:42:25,970 --> 00:42:28,030
- Yeah.
- ...in fossils for years.
762
00:42:28,030 --> 00:42:30,200
It's... It's the holy grail
of true crime.
763
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:31,600
- Mmm-hmm.
- You know, I think,
764
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,840
if the Zodiac case
was solved today,
765
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,200
a lot of the interest
in it would drop...
766
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:37,740
- Yeah.
- ...because people are interested
767
00:42:37,740 --> 00:42:38,870
in the mystery of it.
768
00:42:38,870 --> 00:42:40,900
Especially, because the...
769
00:42:40,900 --> 00:42:44,230
Out of the four ciphers
that the Zodiac sent,
770
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:46,270
only two of themhave been solved.
771
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,330
In August, 1969,
772
00:42:49,330 --> 00:42:51,800
the first Zodiac cipherwas solved.
773
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,400
In it, the Zodiac claimedhe liked killing people,
774
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,430
because it was so much fun.
775
00:42:56,430 --> 00:42:59,500
Then, 51 years later, in 2020,
776
00:42:59,500 --> 00:43:01,270
the second cipher was solved.
777
00:43:01,270 --> 00:43:03,230
And this one was even weirder.
778
00:43:03,230 --> 00:43:06,270
It talked about how he thoughtof his victims as slaves
779
00:43:06,270 --> 00:43:08,530
who would serve himin his afterlife.
780
00:43:10,570 --> 00:43:12,630
Neither revealed his identity,
781
00:43:12,630 --> 00:43:15,570
but they do give usa glimpse inside his mind.
782
00:43:18,630 --> 00:43:20,270
I'm sure a lot of people today
783
00:43:20,270 --> 00:43:23,130
are reading this...
cipher translation,
784
00:43:23,130 --> 00:43:25,000
and they're thinking,
785
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,030
"Gosh, that sounds like
a madman.
786
00:43:27,030 --> 00:43:28,430
That sounds like
a crazy person."
787
00:43:30,330 --> 00:43:33,670
When I read it,
it just sounds like Jim.
66162
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