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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:35,247 --> 00:00:36,706 (Man) They don't like my coming over here. 4 00:00:36,706 --> 00:00:39,664 I've come over here as a visitor. 5 00:00:39,664 --> 00:00:40,581 For about three weeks. 6 00:00:40,581 --> 00:00:41,539 I've got my parents over here. 7 00:00:41,539 --> 00:00:44,749 I've got my brothers over here, sisters over here. 8 00:00:44,749 --> 00:00:45,624 And what happened exactly? 9 00:00:45,624 --> 00:00:48,206 What happened when you got to Heathrow Airport? 10 00:00:48,206 --> 00:00:49,082 They've only one attitude. 11 00:00:49,082 --> 00:00:51,248 They're not interested in people coming over here, 12 00:00:51,248 --> 00:00:53,749 whether as a visitor or as an immigrant 13 00:00:53,749 --> 00:00:55,415 or as any damn thing. 14 00:00:55,415 --> 00:00:58,248 If they wanted me to be a visitor over here 15 00:00:58,248 --> 00:00:59,041 like I requested them, 16 00:00:59,041 --> 00:01:00,749 I've got enough of friends to prove 17 00:01:00,749 --> 00:01:02,415 that I am a genuine visitor over here. 18 00:01:02,415 --> 00:01:05,415 I've got a brother who is here for last about... 19 00:01:05,415 --> 00:01:06,248 seven to eight years. 20 00:01:06,248 --> 00:01:09,041 I'd never seen him. I left him as a baby over here. 21 00:01:09,041 --> 00:01:12,749 And there I am now over here, I just can't meet him. 22 00:01:12,749 --> 00:01:15,791 I can't see my house where my people live. 23 00:01:15,791 --> 00:01:17,499 I exercise the benefit of the doubt 24 00:01:17,499 --> 00:01:20,708 more than any other minister that we've ever had 25 00:01:20,708 --> 00:01:22,499 in charge of immigration. 26 00:01:22,499 --> 00:01:24,416 But if we did it in every single case 27 00:01:24,416 --> 00:01:26,750 there wouldn't be immigration control. 28 00:01:26,750 --> 00:01:28,291 Anybody could come in. 29 00:01:28,291 --> 00:01:30,042 Now, the fact of the matter is 30 00:01:30,042 --> 00:01:31,750 that there's a serious pressure 31 00:01:31,750 --> 00:01:33,916 to come and settle in this country 32 00:01:33,916 --> 00:01:37,042 from certain areas of the Commonwealth. 33 00:01:37,042 --> 00:01:37,833 It's irrefutable. 34 00:01:37,833 --> 00:01:42,833 If... When I was in Bangladesh at the beginning of the year, 35 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:44,625 I went into one village 36 00:01:44,625 --> 00:01:46,416 and I said to the men in the village, 37 00:01:46,416 --> 00:01:48,043 "How many people here would like 38 00:01:48,043 --> 00:01:50,084 "to come and live in England?" 39 00:01:50,084 --> 00:01:51,043 He said, "The whole village." 40 00:01:51,043 --> 00:01:54,959 The fact of the matter is there is a substantial pressure 41 00:01:54,959 --> 00:01:56,959 and we cannot take them all, 42 00:01:56,959 --> 00:02:01,375 and therefore a control system has to be applied. 43 00:02:01,375 --> 00:02:02,500 Now, once you get to that stage, 44 00:02:02,500 --> 00:02:06,375 there are difficult problems when you get to the borderline. 45 00:02:06,375 --> 00:02:09,208 There are some cases that are absolutely plain. 46 00:02:09,208 --> 00:02:11,375 But there are some cases when you're on the borderline. 47 00:02:11,375 --> 00:02:14,626 You're not absolutely sure one way or the other. 48 00:02:14,626 --> 00:02:17,084 And we do exercise the benefit of the doubt 49 00:02:17,084 --> 00:02:19,084 in a great many cases, 50 00:02:19,084 --> 00:02:21,710 and sometimes we make mistakes. 51 00:02:21,710 --> 00:02:24,877 That has to be the case in any human system. 52 00:02:24,877 --> 00:02:29,293 Now, what I am anxious to do is to limit the number of mistakes 53 00:02:29,293 --> 00:02:33,752 and particularly to limit any kind of suggestion 54 00:02:33,752 --> 00:02:36,543 that the motivation is wrong, 55 00:02:36,543 --> 00:02:39,668 that it should be racialist or restrictive 56 00:02:39,668 --> 00:02:44,251 or in some other way seeking to frustrate the rights 57 00:02:44,251 --> 00:02:46,918 of those who have to come. 58 00:02:56,793 --> 00:02:59,086 Can I speak to extension 2-6... 59 00:02:59,086 --> 00:03:00,586 You're the Home Office, aren't you? 60 00:03:00,586 --> 00:03:01,961 (Woman) 'That's right.' 61 00:03:01,961 --> 00:03:03,669 2-6-2-2. 62 00:03:03,669 --> 00:03:05,878 'Right.' 63 00:03:09,836 --> 00:03:10,586 (Man) '2-6-2-2?' 64 00:03:10,586 --> 00:03:12,461 - Mr Potts? - 'Speaking.' 65 00:03:12,461 --> 00:03:15,045 Mr Potts, good morning. Mr Davis. 66 00:03:15,045 --> 00:03:16,377 'Mr Davis, yes?' 67 00:03:16,377 --> 00:03:17,461 You got a minute to spare? 68 00:03:17,461 --> 00:03:20,169 'Not really, no. I'm very busy, I'm afraid.' 69 00:03:20,169 --> 00:03:20,836 You're very busy? 70 00:03:20,836 --> 00:03:23,252 'I'm going to put you onto the telephone enquiry bureau...' 71 00:03:23,252 --> 00:03:26,420 No, no, no, no, no! This is very important, 72 00:03:26,420 --> 00:03:29,754 - and before I... - 'I'm very sorry, Mr Davis, 73 00:03:29,754 --> 00:03:31,420 'but if you want to ask me a question, 74 00:03:31,420 --> 00:03:34,295 'I suggest that you ring the telephone enquiry line...' 75 00:03:34,295 --> 00:03:36,004 But this concerns you... 76 00:03:36,004 --> 00:03:38,337 This concerns you and a letter you wrote to me. 77 00:03:38,337 --> 00:03:39,295 'I'm sure it does concern me, 78 00:03:39,295 --> 00:03:42,545 'but I just do not have time to deal with it at the moment, 79 00:03:42,545 --> 00:03:44,795 'and I suggest you ring the telephone enquiry...' 80 00:03:44,795 --> 00:03:48,879 Mr Potts, I suggest you change your name to Mr Schmuck. 81 00:03:48,879 --> 00:03:50,128 That's what I suggest. 82 00:03:50,128 --> 00:03:52,962 'You do that, Mr Reuben Davis.' 83 00:03:52,962 --> 00:03:54,754 (Click) 84 00:03:54,754 --> 00:03:56,587 That's it. 85 00:03:56,587 --> 00:03:59,088 Mr Potts. You know him? 86 00:03:59,088 --> 00:04:00,421 (Woman) 'He's one of the... 87 00:04:00,421 --> 00:04:04,296 'um... officers in one of our case-working groups, I think.' 88 00:04:04,296 --> 00:04:09,296 Yeah, well, Mr Potts refused to vary her leave. 89 00:04:09,713 --> 00:04:10,171 'Mm-hm?' 90 00:04:10,171 --> 00:04:12,588 And to give her a right of abode. 91 00:04:12,588 --> 00:04:13,047 'Mm.' 92 00:04:13,047 --> 00:04:16,755 And the next thing I have here, I wrote again, 93 00:04:16,755 --> 00:04:19,755 because I thought he must have made a mistake. 94 00:04:19,755 --> 00:04:21,588 Now, this old lady, she can't have any children. 95 00:04:21,588 --> 00:04:24,463 She's 68 years of age. She can't breed any kids. 96 00:04:24,463 --> 00:04:27,671 You should give her a bit of rest and peace. 97 00:04:27,671 --> 00:04:28,129 'Mm.' 98 00:04:28,129 --> 00:04:30,589 And I've got this letter from him. 99 00:04:30,589 --> 00:04:31,048 'Mm?' 100 00:04:31,048 --> 00:04:34,922 "Dear sir, re. Mrs Eleni Charalambous. 101 00:04:34,922 --> 00:04:37,881 "I refer to the appeal made by the above name 102 00:04:37,881 --> 00:04:40,255 "against the Secretary of State's decision 103 00:04:40,255 --> 00:04:41,756 "to refuse her request to be allowed 104 00:04:41,756 --> 00:04:43,964 "to remain permanently in the United Kingdom. 105 00:04:43,964 --> 00:04:46,339 "Taking all the facts into consideration, 106 00:04:46,339 --> 00:04:50,048 "it has been decided to maintain the refusal." 107 00:04:50,048 --> 00:04:53,213 Now, I'm sure that the Secretary of State 108 00:04:53,213 --> 00:04:54,213 has personally... 109 00:04:54,213 --> 00:04:56,672 if he was personally involved, he would go mad. 110 00:04:56,672 --> 00:04:59,589 I know that because I know he's a man of compassion, 111 00:04:59,589 --> 00:05:03,340 and I know he wouldn't treat the widows of British soldiers 112 00:05:03,340 --> 00:05:04,673 like this in this manner. 113 00:05:04,673 --> 00:05:09,673 But I'm sure... Mr Potts, I don't know why he refused this. 114 00:05:10,090 --> 00:05:11,923 Now, could I take it to somebody else? 115 00:05:11,923 --> 00:05:14,173 Because if it goes to an appeal court, 116 00:05:14,173 --> 00:05:16,798 you'll be the laughing stock of everybody. 117 00:05:16,798 --> 00:05:18,590 It'll be disgraceful, inhumane, 118 00:05:18,590 --> 00:05:20,632 and the British people are not inhumane. 119 00:05:20,632 --> 00:05:25,632 Your mother has the right to have abode in this country. 120 00:05:26,923 --> 00:05:27,423 Yes? 121 00:05:27,423 --> 00:05:29,673 But unfortunately in the Home Office 122 00:05:29,673 --> 00:05:32,256 they have a lot of young boys and girls 123 00:05:32,256 --> 00:05:33,590 - working there... - (Barber) Yes? 124 00:05:33,590 --> 00:05:34,673 ...who don't know the difference 125 00:05:34,673 --> 00:05:36,758 between arsehole time and breakfast time. 126 00:05:36,758 --> 00:05:41,215 They make decisions on behalf of the Secretary of State. 127 00:05:41,215 --> 00:05:44,424 The Secretary of State, he doesn't know what's going on. 128 00:05:44,424 --> 00:05:48,341 I'm sure the Home Secretary, he knows about this case, 129 00:05:48,341 --> 00:05:51,424 or the Minister, Mr Alex Lyon, 130 00:05:51,424 --> 00:05:54,174 he'll have no difficulty. 131 00:05:54,174 --> 00:05:57,716 At the moment we're waiting for an appeal. 132 00:05:57,716 --> 00:05:58,716 We have the right of appeal, 133 00:05:58,716 --> 00:06:01,507 and when the appeal comes, then we'll see. 134 00:06:01,507 --> 00:06:01,924 Yes. 135 00:06:01,924 --> 00:06:03,341 Before she came here, where was she? 136 00:06:03,341 --> 00:06:08,216 She was used to live in the camp, in the tent, you know? 137 00:06:08,884 --> 00:06:09,717 And, er... 138 00:06:09,717 --> 00:06:11,175 (Mr Davis) That's why the Home Office 139 00:06:11,175 --> 00:06:14,092 didn't want to send her back in the tent. 140 00:06:14,092 --> 00:06:15,009 (Barber laughs) 141 00:06:15,009 --> 00:06:18,258 Not going to have an abortion, is she, or anything? 142 00:06:18,258 --> 00:06:20,300 Not going to have a baby, is she? 143 00:06:20,300 --> 00:06:22,342 No, no, no. 144 00:06:22,342 --> 00:06:22,800 Jesus. 145 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,258 (Mr Davis) That's why they send them back, you see. 146 00:06:25,258 --> 00:06:26,051 Send young girls back 147 00:06:26,051 --> 00:06:28,175 or women back who are gonna have abortions, 148 00:06:28,175 --> 00:06:29,759 - free medical treatment. - Nice. 149 00:06:29,759 --> 00:06:33,342 She's almost 70 now, you know. 150 00:06:33,342 --> 00:06:34,342 Well, they're mad up there. 151 00:06:34,342 --> 00:06:37,425 They're mad up in the Home Office. 152 00:06:37,425 --> 00:06:38,092 Stark raving mad. 153 00:06:38,092 --> 00:06:42,718 Old lady, she wants somebody to look after her, you know? 154 00:06:42,718 --> 00:06:43,801 Peace and quiet. 155 00:06:43,801 --> 00:06:44,551 Is she a good cook? 156 00:06:44,551 --> 00:06:46,968 Er, in my... yes. Is very good cook. 157 00:06:46,968 --> 00:06:49,635 All right, then. I'm looking for a good cook. 158 00:06:49,635 --> 00:06:53,217 So even if I marry her myself, she'll stay in the country. 159 00:06:53,217 --> 00:06:54,676 All right, then, Mr Davis. 160 00:06:54,676 --> 00:06:56,010 - All right? - Thank you very much. 161 00:06:56,010 --> 00:06:58,843 So you'll be... What will you be? You won't be my father. 162 00:06:58,843 --> 00:07:01,676 You'll be my uncle, won't you, or something? 163 00:07:01,676 --> 00:07:04,301 All right. Bye-bye, anyway. 164 00:07:04,301 --> 00:07:06,760 - Bye-bye. Adio. - Adio. 165 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:08,801 Adio. Bye. 166 00:07:08,801 --> 00:07:11,760 Thank you very much. Bye-bye, Mr Davis. 167 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,260 (They murmur) 168 00:07:14,260 --> 00:07:17,385 (Woman murmurs) 169 00:07:20,218 --> 00:07:21,344 OK, thank you. 170 00:07:21,344 --> 00:07:22,761 (Speaks Italian) 171 00:07:22,761 --> 00:07:25,510 Bye-bye. Thank you. 172 00:07:28,677 --> 00:07:30,844 (Mr Davis) Yeah, are you the CIO? 173 00:07:30,844 --> 00:07:34,761 I have... My name is Mr Davis, Reuben Davis. 174 00:07:34,761 --> 00:07:37,094 And I have some very distressed people 175 00:07:37,094 --> 00:07:39,094 in my office at the moment. 176 00:07:39,094 --> 00:07:42,552 It appears that they have their little sister... 177 00:07:42,552 --> 00:07:46,637 She came here last night. Only a child of 14. 178 00:07:46,637 --> 00:07:49,511 And you've locked her up. 179 00:07:49,803 --> 00:07:53,219 I'd like to know what it's all about. 180 00:07:53,219 --> 00:07:55,887 Well, I've made the arrangements today. 181 00:07:55,887 --> 00:07:56,845 I'm making arrangements now, 182 00:07:56,845 --> 00:08:01,845 and I'm getting her into the Cambridge School of English. 183 00:08:02,178 --> 00:08:04,261 Yes. 184 00:08:04,261 --> 00:08:06,845 Yes, I will, but I don't want this child detained. 185 00:08:06,845 --> 00:08:11,845 She's only a baby. You can't lock up young kids of 14. 186 00:08:14,678 --> 00:08:18,345 I can't dictate to you? No, I'm not dictating to you. 187 00:08:18,345 --> 00:08:20,512 It's... But it's inhumane, what you're doing. 188 00:08:20,512 --> 00:08:24,596 A young child of 14 years of age came alone 189 00:08:24,596 --> 00:08:26,137 and you just lock her up. 190 00:08:26,137 --> 00:08:29,596 Surely, you have the power to release her 191 00:08:29,596 --> 00:08:31,888 in the custody of her sister? 192 00:08:31,888 --> 00:08:34,846 And please can we see her, Mr Davis? 193 00:08:34,846 --> 00:08:39,471 (Mr Davis) Well, why don't you wish to exercise it? 194 00:08:39,596 --> 00:08:41,846 Where is she at the moment? 195 00:08:41,846 --> 00:08:45,055 In Harmondsworth Detention... A young girl on her own? 196 00:08:45,055 --> 00:08:50,055 With all those different people in here in Harmondsworth? 197 00:08:53,889 --> 00:08:57,639 What's that? For people coming on holidays? 198 00:08:57,639 --> 00:09:00,722 Is that what it's for? 199 00:09:05,430 --> 00:09:08,221 And that's where she... You sound... you... 200 00:09:08,221 --> 00:09:10,221 Excuse me if I may say so, 201 00:09:10,221 --> 00:09:12,930 are you a Pakistani immigration officer? 202 00:09:12,930 --> 00:09:15,972 You sound as if you've got a foreign accent. 203 00:09:15,972 --> 00:09:18,430 I can't hear you very well. 204 00:09:18,430 --> 00:09:20,764 Can't understand you. 205 00:09:22,639 --> 00:09:24,139 I'm not being abusive at all. 206 00:09:24,139 --> 00:09:28,098 I know you've got Mr Chirin Gheling there 207 00:09:28,098 --> 00:09:30,640 as an immigration officer. 208 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,348 And Mr Gomez. 209 00:09:35,098 --> 00:09:36,222 Yes, because it does matter, 210 00:09:36,222 --> 00:09:40,098 because English people won't take a young girl of 14 211 00:09:40,098 --> 00:09:41,057 and lock her up, 212 00:09:41,057 --> 00:09:43,973 and that's why I'm asking you. 213 00:09:45,057 --> 00:09:46,473 And you are the people... 214 00:09:46,473 --> 00:09:50,098 You are the people that turn round to Amin 215 00:09:50,098 --> 00:09:52,389 and tell Amin what a bastard he is 216 00:09:52,389 --> 00:09:55,306 for letting... not letting British... 217 00:09:55,306 --> 00:09:58,599 You're the type of people... 218 00:09:59,599 --> 00:10:04,265 I think I'll have to talk to the Chief Immigration Officer. 219 00:10:04,766 --> 00:10:07,223 We'll get her out. 220 00:10:07,223 --> 00:10:09,432 We will get her out. 221 00:10:10,182 --> 00:10:14,099 All right, now, we phone the Home Office. 222 00:10:14,099 --> 00:10:15,891 I'm gonna phone the Home Office now 223 00:10:15,891 --> 00:10:18,682 and I'll speak to the guy at the Home Office. 224 00:10:18,682 --> 00:10:20,641 - Morte. - (Woman) 'Maude?' 225 00:10:20,641 --> 00:10:23,641 Yes, please. Alex Lyon's secretary. 226 00:10:23,641 --> 00:10:24,682 'Oh, Mr Moore.' 227 00:10:24,682 --> 00:10:28,432 Could you please get this child released? 228 00:10:28,432 --> 00:10:31,433 (Man) 'I'll have to ask for more details, Mr Davis. 229 00:10:31,433 --> 00:10:33,017 'Does she come from Cyprus?' 230 00:10:33,017 --> 00:10:33,808 She's from Cyprus, 231 00:10:33,808 --> 00:10:37,224 and she's in the Turkish sector of Cyprus... 232 00:10:37,224 --> 00:10:37,725 'Yeah?' 233 00:10:37,725 --> 00:10:41,059 ...and she came... Her sister's here with me at the moment. 234 00:10:41,059 --> 00:10:41,516 'Yeah. 235 00:10:41,516 --> 00:10:45,266 'I'll certainly make enquiries about this girl's situation 236 00:10:45,266 --> 00:10:46,017 'because of her age. 237 00:10:46,017 --> 00:10:48,266 'But other than that I cannot say.' 238 00:10:48,266 --> 00:10:50,059 - I've never met you. - 'Yeah.' 239 00:10:50,059 --> 00:10:52,391 I'll say this about your governor. 240 00:10:52,391 --> 00:10:55,683 He's a decent feller and he's a nice chap. 241 00:10:55,683 --> 00:10:58,683 I wouldn't like to change my opinion about him. 242 00:10:58,683 --> 00:11:00,100 I want to keep the same opinion. 243 00:11:00,100 --> 00:11:03,601 'Yes, so, if you can assure the girl's sister 244 00:11:03,601 --> 00:11:06,726 'that we are considering the case urgently on her behalf.' 245 00:11:06,726 --> 00:11:09,060 Yeah, I wouldn't like her to spend another night 246 00:11:09,060 --> 00:11:09,684 in that place. 247 00:11:09,684 --> 00:11:11,434 'No, of course not. We are considering it now.' 248 00:11:11,434 --> 00:11:13,225 Good. I won't phone you no more. 249 00:11:13,225 --> 00:11:16,726 Have a nice weekend and I won't bother you anymore. 250 00:11:16,726 --> 00:11:19,101 And thank you. I'm grateful to you. 251 00:11:19,101 --> 00:11:22,434 - 'My pleasure. Bye.' - Bye-bye. 252 00:11:23,976 --> 00:11:27,809 Well, OK. They're going to act. Today. 253 00:11:27,809 --> 00:11:31,893 And they are looking into the matter right away. 254 00:11:31,893 --> 00:11:35,769 I wouldn't be surprised if she'll be out tonight. 255 00:11:35,769 --> 00:11:36,769 I hope so. 256 00:11:36,769 --> 00:11:40,061 (Tannoy announcement) 257 00:11:45,727 --> 00:11:48,019 Excuse me. 258 00:12:04,226 --> 00:12:08,062 They can take her, they can undress her, 259 00:12:08,062 --> 00:12:11,561 and examine her private parts, 260 00:12:11,561 --> 00:12:12,478 under the law, 261 00:12:12,478 --> 00:12:17,478 for... they call it... they can photograph her, measure her... 262 00:12:19,519 --> 00:12:23,519 ...and they can examine her private parts 263 00:12:23,519 --> 00:12:27,853 for the purposes of identification. 264 00:12:28,020 --> 00:12:30,103 - Did you know that? - No, I didn't. 265 00:12:30,103 --> 00:12:31,895 Well, this is the law. 266 00:12:31,895 --> 00:12:32,770 This is disgusting. 267 00:12:32,770 --> 00:12:35,728 Yeah, well, that's what I call it, disgusting, 268 00:12:35,728 --> 00:12:37,103 but they can do. 269 00:12:37,103 --> 00:12:39,186 And Securicor employees 270 00:12:39,186 --> 00:12:42,854 may also be authorised by the Home Secretary 271 00:12:42,854 --> 00:12:44,228 to do these things. 272 00:12:44,228 --> 00:12:44,979 They can also do it. 273 00:12:44,979 --> 00:12:48,771 So, any man there, if he wants to examine her, 274 00:12:48,771 --> 00:12:51,395 and he's a Securicor guard, 275 00:12:51,395 --> 00:12:54,979 he can under the law take this young girl 276 00:12:54,979 --> 00:12:56,604 undress her, strip her, 277 00:12:56,604 --> 00:13:00,395 and examine her private parts if he wants to. 278 00:13:00,395 --> 00:13:03,145 Did any of this happen to her? 279 00:13:03,145 --> 00:13:06,187 (Speaks foreign language) 280 00:13:07,937 --> 00:13:09,228 - No. - No. 281 00:13:09,228 --> 00:13:13,688 She wasn't? Well, thank God for that. 282 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:21,772 How long you been working here? 283 00:13:21,772 --> 00:13:23,105 Half past three. 284 00:13:23,105 --> 00:13:24,980 Half past... Pardon? 285 00:13:24,980 --> 00:13:27,313 Half past three. Half past three. 286 00:13:27,313 --> 00:13:30,438 No, how many years have you been here working? 287 00:13:30,438 --> 00:13:31,647 Half past three years. 288 00:13:31,647 --> 00:13:33,521 You mean three and a half years? 289 00:13:33,521 --> 00:13:33,980 Yeah. 290 00:13:33,980 --> 00:13:36,563 And when you came here, then what happened? 291 00:13:36,563 --> 00:13:40,938 I understand now that the police came and picked you up. 292 00:13:40,938 --> 00:13:41,480 Yeah. 293 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,313 And what did they do to you? 294 00:13:43,313 --> 00:13:45,147 They arrested both of them here? 295 00:13:45,147 --> 00:13:47,522 Your wife was working here as well? 296 00:13:47,522 --> 00:13:50,397 Yeah. She is deported. 297 00:13:50,397 --> 00:13:52,106 - Pardon? - She is deported. 298 00:13:52,106 --> 00:13:54,106 They deported the wife? 299 00:13:54,106 --> 00:13:56,481 And what about you? 300 00:13:56,481 --> 00:13:58,814 They told you you can have an appeal? 301 00:13:58,814 --> 00:14:00,481 - Yeah. - And you have an appeal now. 302 00:14:00,481 --> 00:14:05,481 It took me a year to break him in to use this certain machine. 303 00:14:05,648 --> 00:14:08,065 You understand? One whole year. 304 00:14:08,065 --> 00:14:09,481 We spent a lot of time with him, 305 00:14:09,481 --> 00:14:13,106 overtime and Saturdays to break him in to work this machine. 306 00:14:13,106 --> 00:14:17,230 - He's a nice type of chap, too. - Gentleman. 307 00:14:32,148 --> 00:14:34,440 (Mr Davis) How did I get into this business? 308 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,565 Well, I used to be a personnel director 309 00:14:38,565 --> 00:14:41,690 for a large export group... 310 00:14:42,024 --> 00:14:42,857 in the clothing industry, 311 00:14:42,857 --> 00:14:47,482 I've always been interested in the clothing industry. 312 00:14:47,482 --> 00:14:49,107 Every factory would be about... 313 00:14:49,107 --> 00:14:53,524 The machines would be 40 per cent idle in every factory 314 00:14:53,524 --> 00:14:55,983 because of the shortage of workers. 315 00:14:55,983 --> 00:15:00,983 So, I went abroad and I managed to contact 100 girls 316 00:15:01,274 --> 00:15:04,691 who had come to this country for two years on a contract 317 00:15:04,691 --> 00:15:07,941 earning about 35, 40 pound a week. 318 00:15:07,941 --> 00:15:09,858 I came back to this country, 319 00:15:09,858 --> 00:15:11,775 I went to the Department of Employment 320 00:15:11,775 --> 00:15:15,816 and I asked them for work permits 321 00:15:15,816 --> 00:15:17,025 for the applicants. 322 00:15:17,025 --> 00:15:19,232 The Department of Employment said, "Sorry, Mr Davis, 323 00:15:19,232 --> 00:15:20,316 "we can't give you work permits, 324 00:15:20,316 --> 00:15:23,984 "because there are half a million people unemployed." 325 00:15:23,984 --> 00:15:24,776 I said, "Goody-goody, 326 00:15:24,776 --> 00:15:28,400 "if there's a half a million people unemployed, 327 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:29,484 "that's what we want. 328 00:15:29,484 --> 00:15:31,400 "Give us 1,000 machinists, 329 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:32,901 "British workers first, 330 00:15:32,901 --> 00:15:34,859 "and we will employ them immediately. 331 00:15:34,859 --> 00:15:37,400 "They'll all be working within 24 hours." 332 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:38,859 They said, "I'm sorry, Mr Davis, 333 00:15:38,859 --> 00:15:42,567 "but there are no machinists unemployed." 334 00:15:42,567 --> 00:15:43,859 So, I said to them, 335 00:15:43,859 --> 00:15:47,609 "Well, can I have work permits for these people coming in?" 336 00:15:47,609 --> 00:15:48,442 They said, "No, Mr Davis, 337 00:15:48,442 --> 00:15:50,442 "you can't have work permits for these people, 338 00:15:50,442 --> 00:15:54,567 "because there's a half a million people unemployed." 339 00:15:54,567 --> 00:15:57,318 They said, "Mr Davis, would you mind trainees?" 340 00:15:57,318 --> 00:16:00,485 I said, "Yes, I don't mind taking Jack the Ripper's sister, 341 00:16:00,485 --> 00:16:02,860 "as long as she can use a machine." 342 00:16:02,860 --> 00:16:07,526 So they sent me along to the trainees' department 343 00:16:07,526 --> 00:16:09,526 to see if I could get some trainees 344 00:16:09,526 --> 00:16:12,860 and I had a letter from the trainees' department 345 00:16:12,860 --> 00:16:14,401 saying, "I'm sorry, Mr Davis, 346 00:16:14,401 --> 00:16:17,985 "young girls today don't want to go into the clothing industry. 347 00:16:17,985 --> 00:16:19,110 "They want to work in shops. 348 00:16:19,110 --> 00:16:20,568 "They would like to work in stores 349 00:16:20,568 --> 00:16:23,568 "or they would like to work in offices." 350 00:16:23,568 --> 00:16:25,234 I came back again with this letter 351 00:16:25,234 --> 00:16:29,527 to the Department of Employment and they said to me, 352 00:16:29,527 --> 00:16:32,986 "Mr Davis, if we give you the work permits, 353 00:16:32,986 --> 00:16:34,277 "the unions will go mad." 354 00:16:34,277 --> 00:16:36,819 So, I went along to the union and the union... 355 00:16:36,819 --> 00:16:39,736 Here's a letter here from the National Union of Tailors 356 00:16:39,736 --> 00:16:40,861 and Garment Workers, 357 00:16:40,861 --> 00:16:44,611 and they said, no, Mr Davis, we will support the application 358 00:16:44,611 --> 00:16:46,694 because if you have no machinists, 359 00:16:46,694 --> 00:16:51,444 then you don't need finishers, and you don't need designers, 360 00:16:51,444 --> 00:16:52,402 because they're the mainstay, 361 00:16:52,402 --> 00:16:54,653 machinists are the mainstay of the business, 362 00:16:54,653 --> 00:16:58,111 and they gave me a letter supporting the application. 363 00:16:58,111 --> 00:17:01,779 The Department of Employment then said to me, yes, Mr Davis, 364 00:17:01,779 --> 00:17:04,153 don't worry, we can get these workers for you. 365 00:17:04,153 --> 00:17:07,654 We've got thousands of Ugandan Asians coming into the country 366 00:17:07,654 --> 00:17:11,904 and you're sure to get as many machinists as you can get. 367 00:17:11,904 --> 00:17:14,362 Subsequently, I went down to four of the camps, 368 00:17:14,362 --> 00:17:19,362 where these girls and all these Ugandan Asians were, 369 00:17:20,112 --> 00:17:21,569 to see if I could recruit labour, 370 00:17:21,569 --> 00:17:25,528 and I managed to find one girl only out of the whole issue. 371 00:17:25,528 --> 00:17:27,987 One girl said she would come and work for me 372 00:17:27,987 --> 00:17:29,236 if I bought her a house. 373 00:17:29,236 --> 00:17:31,737 So I said, "Listen, my darling, you buy me a house 374 00:17:31,737 --> 00:17:33,113 "and I'll come and work for you." 375 00:17:33,113 --> 00:17:36,154 I came back, I went along to the Department of Employment 376 00:17:36,154 --> 00:17:39,529 and I said, "Department of Employment, what shall I do?" 377 00:17:39,529 --> 00:17:41,780 And they gave me a wonderful answer. 378 00:17:41,780 --> 00:17:43,613 They said to me, "Mr Davis, 379 00:17:43,613 --> 00:17:47,738 "the best thing to do is don't take export orders." 380 00:17:47,738 --> 00:17:49,488 Now, this man must have been a genius, 381 00:17:49,488 --> 00:17:53,780 because I understand that he's been promoted since then. 382 00:17:53,780 --> 00:17:55,613 Are you married? 383 00:17:55,613 --> 00:17:56,072 No. 384 00:17:56,072 --> 00:17:58,030 Are you engaged to be married? 385 00:17:58,030 --> 00:17:58,488 Yeah. 386 00:17:58,488 --> 00:18:02,154 And why don't you get married if you're engaged to be married? 387 00:18:02,154 --> 00:18:05,906 And if you get married you'll be able to stay here 388 00:18:05,906 --> 00:18:10,447 under the new ruling by the Home Secretary. 389 00:18:10,447 --> 00:18:12,781 Yeah. That's a good idea. 390 00:18:12,781 --> 00:18:16,864 It's a good... Well, if you're engaged to the girl... 391 00:18:16,864 --> 00:18:18,572 - Yeah. - ...you're gonna marry her. 392 00:18:18,572 --> 00:18:20,781 You don't get engaged unless you marry her. 393 00:18:20,781 --> 00:18:21,238 Exactly. 394 00:18:21,238 --> 00:18:23,405 Or do you get engaged... Is this a habit with you? 395 00:18:23,405 --> 00:18:24,906 - Always to get engaged? - No. 396 00:18:24,906 --> 00:18:26,906 And they teach you to speak English in school? 397 00:18:26,906 --> 00:18:29,572 Yes, I have been to school in evening classes. 398 00:18:29,572 --> 00:18:32,155 They taught you to say God save the King? 399 00:18:32,155 --> 00:18:33,530 Yes, sure, I have got. 400 00:18:33,530 --> 00:18:35,822 Used to sing it in school? Empire days? 401 00:18:35,822 --> 00:18:38,531 Used to have the British flag and wave it about? 402 00:18:38,531 --> 00:18:41,239 - The Union Jack? - That's right. 403 00:19:00,573 --> 00:19:04,281 Mr Lyon gave me some very good news today. 404 00:19:04,281 --> 00:19:08,698 Mr Lyon told me that he's going to stop me 405 00:19:08,698 --> 00:19:11,366 and put me out of business, 406 00:19:11,366 --> 00:19:15,075 and I can't carry on my business anymore, 407 00:19:15,075 --> 00:19:19,157 because I charge people for what I do. 408 00:19:19,157 --> 00:19:20,949 So, I said, "Well, under the laws, 409 00:19:20,949 --> 00:19:23,407 "you're empowered to give me a grant. 410 00:19:23,407 --> 00:19:28,116 "So, if you give me the grant, I won't charge people." 411 00:19:28,116 --> 00:19:31,324 He's gonna instruct them up there not to answer my letters, 412 00:19:31,324 --> 00:19:35,407 not to talk to me, not to discuss anything with me. 413 00:19:35,407 --> 00:19:37,324 (Woman) Yes. 414 00:19:38,075 --> 00:19:41,908 So, what do you think that'll mean for your business? 415 00:19:41,908 --> 00:19:44,659 Nothing at all. 416 00:19:45,117 --> 00:19:46,533 Not a thing. 417 00:19:46,533 --> 00:19:49,659 I said you can't stop me representing people 418 00:19:49,659 --> 00:19:51,200 if I go up to the adjudicators' court. 419 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:55,241 He said, "The adjudicator might not want to listen to you." 420 00:19:55,241 --> 00:19:59,575 I said... "You're telling me," I said, "now... 421 00:20:00,784 --> 00:20:03,158 "...you're telling me that the adjudicator... 422 00:20:03,158 --> 00:20:05,659 "you have no control over the adjudicator, 423 00:20:05,659 --> 00:20:10,659 "and now you say the adjudicators won't listen to me? 424 00:20:10,742 --> 00:20:11,825 "Supposed to be independent, 425 00:20:11,825 --> 00:20:16,076 "and you're telling me they won't listen to me? 426 00:20:16,284 --> 00:20:18,534 "So, that's your independence?" 427 00:20:18,534 --> 00:20:20,826 I said, "According to the immigration law, 428 00:20:20,826 --> 00:20:25,826 "the adjudicator must listen to anybody, any appellant 429 00:20:26,159 --> 00:20:28,743 "or any appellant's representative 430 00:20:28,743 --> 00:20:30,284 "they wish to appoint. 431 00:20:30,284 --> 00:20:31,534 "That's the law." 432 00:20:31,534 --> 00:20:34,201 "Yes, but they may not want to listen to you." 433 00:20:34,201 --> 00:20:37,826 I said, "Come on." I said, "You know it's not independent, 434 00:20:37,826 --> 00:20:39,451 "because next time I go up there, 435 00:20:39,451 --> 00:20:41,118 "I'm gonna wear my pith helmet up there. 436 00:20:41,118 --> 00:20:43,910 "You know these colonial magistrates." I told him that. 437 00:20:43,910 --> 00:20:46,493 - (Woman) What did he say? - Oh, he smiled. 438 00:20:46,493 --> 00:20:49,619 He knows the score. He's not a fool. 439 00:20:49,619 --> 00:20:53,036 He knows what it's all about. 440 00:20:53,911 --> 00:20:58,036 He knows I'm absolutely right. He knows. 441 00:20:58,036 --> 00:21:02,160 Probably that's what he got the needle about. 442 00:21:07,036 --> 00:21:09,036 If he was so concerned 443 00:21:09,036 --> 00:21:12,911 that we're charging these immigrants money, 444 00:21:12,911 --> 00:21:17,911 why doesn't he give them free legal advice? 445 00:21:18,327 --> 00:21:21,411 The same as anybody can get in the court. 446 00:21:21,411 --> 00:21:22,370 It's easy for him to do that, 447 00:21:22,370 --> 00:21:25,787 to say they can get legal advice, legal aid. 448 00:21:25,787 --> 00:21:27,703 Won't give them legal aid. 449 00:21:27,703 --> 00:21:31,495 So, what do they have to do? It's all down to one thing. 450 00:21:31,495 --> 00:21:34,536 They must go to where he wants them to go 451 00:21:34,536 --> 00:21:37,370 and that is the UKIAS, that's all there is to it. 452 00:21:37,370 --> 00:21:39,703 (Woman) You reckon there's a connection between UKIAS... 453 00:21:39,703 --> 00:21:43,286 Course it is. Any idiot can see that. 454 00:21:43,286 --> 00:21:46,870 UKIAS get a 125,000 grant. 455 00:21:46,870 --> 00:21:48,745 People don't want to go to the UKIAS. 456 00:21:48,745 --> 00:21:50,536 They can go to anyone they want. 457 00:21:50,536 --> 00:21:51,370 They choose to come to me 458 00:21:51,370 --> 00:21:53,495 because they think I can do a job much better. 459 00:21:53,495 --> 00:21:55,329 (Lewin) Is that what you told him? 460 00:21:55,329 --> 00:21:58,496 Well, I said give me a grant. 461 00:22:00,913 --> 00:22:02,663 Well, no, he said UKIAS. 462 00:22:02,663 --> 00:22:05,371 I said it's like me suing you 463 00:22:05,371 --> 00:22:09,579 and sending you to my solicitor to help you. 464 00:22:20,038 --> 00:22:22,287 (Man speaks in foreign language) 465 00:22:22,287 --> 00:22:25,204 (Woman speaks quietly) 466 00:22:26,329 --> 00:22:29,039 Yeah, I suppose it is. 467 00:22:30,914 --> 00:22:31,997 (Typing) 468 00:22:31,997 --> 00:22:36,163 We will write a letter on her behalf to the Home Office... 469 00:22:36,163 --> 00:22:36,580 Yes. 470 00:22:36,580 --> 00:22:38,288 ...and say that for family reasons 471 00:22:38,288 --> 00:22:41,789 she would like to stay here for a year more, 472 00:22:41,789 --> 00:22:46,122 and as I said to her a year ago 473 00:22:46,122 --> 00:22:47,914 that we are an independent body. 474 00:22:47,914 --> 00:22:52,914 We are not controlled in our direction of the work 475 00:22:53,413 --> 00:22:54,455 as to how we do. 476 00:22:54,455 --> 00:22:56,330 We are entirely independent on that. 477 00:22:56,330 --> 00:22:58,205 Though we are a government-funded body 478 00:22:58,205 --> 00:23:01,164 but we don't take directions from the Home Office 479 00:23:01,164 --> 00:23:02,915 or from anybody from the Home Office 480 00:23:02,915 --> 00:23:05,581 how we should do with our clients. 481 00:23:05,581 --> 00:23:07,581 What advice we give you, what advice, 482 00:23:07,581 --> 00:23:10,164 the answer is entirely between us and the clients. 483 00:23:10,164 --> 00:23:13,831 We absolutely were under no directions from the Home Office 484 00:23:13,831 --> 00:23:17,790 as far as how our job's concerned. 485 00:23:17,790 --> 00:23:18,414 Is that clear? 486 00:23:18,414 --> 00:23:19,623 Because some people have got some doubt 487 00:23:19,623 --> 00:23:22,082 that, oh, because we are a government-funded body, 488 00:23:22,082 --> 00:23:24,289 we are under their thumb. It is not so. 489 00:23:24,289 --> 00:23:25,915 We are not under their thumb 490 00:23:25,915 --> 00:23:29,123 as far as our duties are concerned. 491 00:23:29,123 --> 00:23:29,790 - OK? - Yes. 492 00:23:29,790 --> 00:23:33,540 Now, you have come well and truly freely to us... 493 00:23:33,540 --> 00:23:33,957 Yes. 494 00:23:33,957 --> 00:23:35,666 ...and our service is free of charge, 495 00:23:35,666 --> 00:23:37,832 we do not charge you a penny. 496 00:23:37,832 --> 00:23:39,791 And because we don't charge you a penny, 497 00:23:39,791 --> 00:23:42,083 it doesn't mean it's a cheap service. 498 00:23:42,083 --> 00:23:44,540 It's a specialised service by itself. 499 00:23:44,540 --> 00:23:46,207 No, this is our speciality. 500 00:23:46,207 --> 00:23:48,624 The immigration is our speciality. 501 00:23:48,624 --> 00:23:50,374 You've seen your sister, have you? 502 00:23:50,374 --> 00:23:51,290 (Man) Yes, I just left her. 503 00:23:51,290 --> 00:23:55,248 Well, I've telephoned Immigration to find out 504 00:23:55,248 --> 00:23:59,290 what the situation is as far as they see it. 505 00:23:59,290 --> 00:24:02,415 Um... it appears that the main problem is 506 00:24:02,415 --> 00:24:06,500 that she applied for an entry certificate last year 507 00:24:06,500 --> 00:24:08,249 and was refused. 508 00:24:08,249 --> 00:24:09,833 Um... she was refused 509 00:24:09,833 --> 00:24:12,708 because they didn't consider she had especial incentive 510 00:24:12,708 --> 00:24:16,249 to go back to Guyana, if she came here. 511 00:24:16,249 --> 00:24:21,249 Um... now they say that they interviewed her all yesterday, 512 00:24:22,583 --> 00:24:25,500 um... and that she wasn't... 513 00:24:25,500 --> 00:24:29,458 well, didn't really give them all the true details, 514 00:24:29,458 --> 00:24:32,208 and I think they told you this as well, didn't they? 515 00:24:32,208 --> 00:24:32,958 (Man) Mm-hm, mm-hm. 516 00:24:32,958 --> 00:24:35,375 Yes. I think she must be a bit confused. 517 00:24:35,375 --> 00:24:37,167 Do you think she is a bit confused? 518 00:24:37,167 --> 00:24:38,459 Well, I was confused when I was there 519 00:24:38,459 --> 00:24:41,542 because, you know, I don't think it's... 520 00:24:41,542 --> 00:24:43,751 It's a catch, you know what I mean? 521 00:24:43,751 --> 00:24:45,417 They're pumping things in your head 522 00:24:45,417 --> 00:24:48,292 and they're trying to catch you, you know what I mean? 523 00:24:48,292 --> 00:24:49,959 It's a test, more or less, you know? 524 00:24:49,959 --> 00:24:52,459 And they are trying to tempt you to do this, 525 00:24:52,459 --> 00:24:54,292 and before you know what you said, 526 00:24:54,292 --> 00:24:56,209 they confuse you with something else. 527 00:24:56,209 --> 00:24:58,126 It's, you know, it's... I don't know. 528 00:24:58,126 --> 00:25:00,334 It's more or less they are putting things in your mouth 529 00:25:00,334 --> 00:25:05,334 and they want... they're hoping that you will say those things. 530 00:25:05,542 --> 00:25:06,209 Mm. 531 00:25:06,209 --> 00:25:11,210 What do you think her incentive is to go back to Guyana? 532 00:25:11,794 --> 00:25:13,502 You see, once she comes here as a visitor, 533 00:25:13,502 --> 00:25:17,585 she is quite entitled to make an application to stay here 534 00:25:17,585 --> 00:25:20,127 for studies or for permanent settlement 535 00:25:20,127 --> 00:25:21,710 or for anything else. 536 00:25:21,710 --> 00:25:22,669 So as far as you're concerned... 537 00:25:22,669 --> 00:25:25,502 But this is what they want to avoid her doing, we think. 538 00:25:25,502 --> 00:25:26,377 So how do you avoid that? 539 00:25:26,377 --> 00:25:29,919 You're guilty before you prove yourself. 540 00:25:29,919 --> 00:25:30,335 No. 541 00:25:30,335 --> 00:25:33,377 Yes, are, because they say that, you know, 542 00:25:33,377 --> 00:25:34,794 she want to come here to settle. 543 00:25:34,794 --> 00:25:36,418 (Woman) Well, this is what they suspect. 544 00:25:36,418 --> 00:25:38,335 Yeah, this is what they suspect, right? 545 00:25:38,335 --> 00:25:39,752 It's not a suspicion anymore 546 00:25:39,752 --> 00:25:41,835 because it's a fact now, isn't it? 547 00:25:41,835 --> 00:25:44,544 (Woman) It's not a fact, no. They suspect. 548 00:25:44,544 --> 00:25:45,211 Well, it's a fact 549 00:25:45,211 --> 00:25:47,461 because they're sending her back, aren't they? 550 00:25:47,461 --> 00:25:48,087 It's true to say 551 00:25:48,087 --> 00:25:50,378 that Immigration can refuse people here 552 00:25:50,378 --> 00:25:52,336 permission to enter the country as a visitor 553 00:25:52,336 --> 00:25:56,503 without definite proof that they're not genuine visitors. 554 00:25:56,503 --> 00:25:59,753 So, you're guilty before you're innocent? 555 00:25:59,753 --> 00:26:01,795 I know what the British Constitution says. 556 00:26:01,795 --> 00:26:04,087 I went to school in my childhood days 557 00:26:04,087 --> 00:26:06,795 and that's one of the fundamental rights. 558 00:26:06,795 --> 00:26:10,169 You're innocent until you're proven guilty. 559 00:26:10,169 --> 00:26:11,169 You know what I mean? 560 00:26:11,169 --> 00:26:13,045 All this detention thing they have there. 561 00:26:13,045 --> 00:26:16,170 I'd like them to go and spend some time there themselves, 562 00:26:16,170 --> 00:26:18,754 Just live there for a day or so, 563 00:26:18,754 --> 00:26:19,962 and see how they like it. 564 00:26:19,962 --> 00:26:23,712 Yes, I know it's not very pleasant. 565 00:26:23,712 --> 00:26:25,170 Um... 566 00:26:25,170 --> 00:26:26,462 I've been living over here long enough. 567 00:26:26,462 --> 00:26:29,004 I know a lot of things and you know I'm not stupid. 568 00:26:29,004 --> 00:26:33,796 But you behave decently and they try to make you stupid. 569 00:26:33,796 --> 00:26:36,129 Well, the only thing we can do now, 570 00:26:36,129 --> 00:26:38,088 as she has been refused, 571 00:26:38,088 --> 00:26:40,088 um... if you want to, 572 00:26:40,088 --> 00:26:42,962 she can appeal against this decision. 573 00:26:42,962 --> 00:26:47,046 Um... but only after she's been sent back. 574 00:26:48,089 --> 00:26:50,338 What, put her though all this again? 575 00:26:50,338 --> 00:26:51,296 No. I think they... 576 00:26:51,296 --> 00:26:55,546 (Woman) If I can just explain what the appeal procedure is. 577 00:26:55,546 --> 00:26:57,672 She will have to lodge the appeal 578 00:26:57,672 --> 00:27:01,963 within 28 days of her return. 579 00:27:01,963 --> 00:27:02,672 The appeal will... 580 00:27:02,672 --> 00:27:04,755 (Man) And they're gonna pay for all the passage 581 00:27:04,755 --> 00:27:05,588 and all that, I suppose? 582 00:27:05,588 --> 00:27:07,130 Well, the airline that brought her here 583 00:27:07,130 --> 00:27:09,505 has to take her back, yes. She doesn't pay for that. 584 00:27:09,505 --> 00:27:11,005 No, but if you appeal and you do win, 585 00:27:11,005 --> 00:27:14,213 they have to pay for the passage and everything else, won't they? 586 00:27:14,213 --> 00:27:17,755 Or you have to spend all the money all over again? 587 00:27:17,755 --> 00:27:20,506 - And that's justice? - (Woman) It may well be, yes. 588 00:27:20,506 --> 00:27:23,964 You could take that up with the Home Office. I don't know. 589 00:27:23,964 --> 00:27:24,756 No, I could take it up 590 00:27:24,756 --> 00:27:27,631 for what they've done to her since yesterday. 591 00:27:27,631 --> 00:27:30,255 I call it torture. 592 00:27:32,006 --> 00:27:36,422 Mm. Well, what are you going to do? 593 00:27:36,422 --> 00:27:38,172 What do you want to do? 594 00:27:38,172 --> 00:27:39,631 I can only give you advice. 595 00:27:39,631 --> 00:27:42,839 So ask me questions, and I'll help you if I can. 596 00:27:42,839 --> 00:27:46,131 I just want to go home and sleep. 597 00:27:46,631 --> 00:27:51,547 Um... and think it over so you want to decide... 598 00:27:51,547 --> 00:27:53,132 No, go to sleep. I'm so tired. 599 00:27:53,132 --> 00:27:55,423 Mm, and what about the appeal from abroad? 600 00:27:55,423 --> 00:27:58,507 Do you want go through with that or not? 601 00:27:58,507 --> 00:27:59,340 Or haven't you decided? 602 00:27:59,340 --> 00:28:01,715 I don't think... I mean, you come over here to visit, 603 00:28:01,715 --> 00:28:04,924 and all this argy-bargy just to visit. 604 00:28:04,924 --> 00:28:05,590 Is it worth it, 605 00:28:05,590 --> 00:28:08,049 visiting a country under these circumstances? 606 00:28:08,049 --> 00:28:08,965 I don't think it is. 607 00:28:08,965 --> 00:28:10,007 Well, that's for you to decide. 608 00:28:10,007 --> 00:28:15,007 No, you see, the visit is over. I mean, that's her visit. 609 00:28:15,173 --> 00:28:15,590 Mm. 610 00:28:15,590 --> 00:28:20,590 Well, I'm trying to find out whether Miss Rama... 611 00:28:21,548 --> 00:28:22,298 Rama Khan... 612 00:28:22,298 --> 00:28:25,298 - (Man) Shanti Devi. - Shanti Devi Rama Khan. 613 00:28:25,298 --> 00:28:26,174 She's a girl from Guyana 614 00:28:26,174 --> 00:28:27,966 who came here from Toronto yesterday. 615 00:28:27,966 --> 00:28:32,966 I'm trying to find out whether she's gone yet or not. 616 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,633 Well, I think she's supposed to go at 2:30. 617 00:28:36,633 --> 00:28:39,383 I'm not quite sure really. 618 00:28:39,383 --> 00:28:42,800 To Toronto. Mm. 619 00:28:43,841 --> 00:28:47,424 (Man) I don't mind if they let her stay for a day. 620 00:28:47,424 --> 00:28:50,133 That'd be all right. 621 00:28:50,133 --> 00:28:53,050 But just to come and go like this, 622 00:28:53,050 --> 00:28:57,383 it's probably like people like animals in the zoo, you know, 623 00:28:57,383 --> 00:28:59,093 which are bad and you send them back. 624 00:28:59,093 --> 00:29:01,051 You know, that's the only way you can think of it. 625 00:29:01,051 --> 00:29:04,967 You're not human beings anymore. You're just animals. 626 00:29:04,967 --> 00:29:09,509 No... you know, it makes me think of Nazism 627 00:29:09,509 --> 00:29:12,258 and all that sort of thing. 628 00:29:29,967 --> 00:29:32,968 (Phone ringing) 629 00:29:34,135 --> 00:29:34,843 (Man) 'Hello?' 630 00:29:34,843 --> 00:29:36,426 Hello. Can I speak to you about a client 631 00:29:36,426 --> 00:29:40,052 that you have detained down in the Immigration there? 632 00:29:40,052 --> 00:29:42,052 - 'Who's that speaking, please?' - Mr Davis. 633 00:29:42,052 --> 00:29:44,760 - 'Mr Reuben Davis?' - Yes, it is Mr Reuben Davis. 634 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,218 'And what's the name of your client, Mr Davis?' 635 00:29:47,218 --> 00:29:48,551 Mr Sharif Ali. 636 00:29:48,551 --> 00:29:50,885 'Well, I'm afraid that I have instructions 637 00:29:50,885 --> 00:29:51,677 'from the Home Office 638 00:29:51,677 --> 00:29:55,135 'to have no further dealings with you, Mr Davis, and...' 639 00:29:55,135 --> 00:29:58,135 - Can you tell me... - '...to advise you that, er... 640 00:29:58,135 --> 00:30:00,593 'should you wish your client to be represented 641 00:30:00,593 --> 00:30:03,928 'then you should advise him to either represent himself 642 00:30:03,928 --> 00:30:06,803 'or to seek some further representative.' 643 00:30:06,803 --> 00:30:09,136 Would you advise me, then, 644 00:30:09,136 --> 00:30:11,136 as the Home Office advised you, 645 00:30:11,136 --> 00:30:13,552 to tell me where these people should go 646 00:30:13,552 --> 00:30:14,386 for representation? 647 00:30:14,386 --> 00:30:17,177 'No, they have not, but, as I've been advised 648 00:30:17,177 --> 00:30:20,177 'to have no further dealings with you and...' 649 00:30:20,177 --> 00:30:21,928 Is that what the Home Office told you, 650 00:30:21,928 --> 00:30:25,053 that you mustn't have any further dealings with me? 651 00:30:25,053 --> 00:30:25,886 'Goodbye, Mr Davis.' 652 00:30:25,886 --> 00:30:28,302 Can you please tell me why? 653 00:30:28,302 --> 00:30:30,552 (Click) 654 00:30:30,552 --> 00:30:31,928 Just cut me off. 655 00:30:31,928 --> 00:30:35,552 Can't... can't deal with me anymore. 656 00:30:35,552 --> 00:30:37,387 You see, the Home Office, I explained to you, 657 00:30:37,387 --> 00:30:38,970 they want to nationalise my business. 658 00:30:38,970 --> 00:30:41,637 They don't want me to act on your behalf 659 00:30:41,637 --> 00:30:46,637 because I fight too strongly for my clients. 660 00:30:50,054 --> 00:30:51,012 So there's not much I can do. 661 00:30:51,012 --> 00:30:55,096 So I advise you now to go down to the... Dover, 662 00:30:55,096 --> 00:30:56,137 go to Dover now, 663 00:30:56,137 --> 00:30:59,054 and speak to the Chief Immigration Officer, 664 00:30:59,054 --> 00:31:03,137 tell him that your brother's not illegally in this country, 665 00:31:03,137 --> 00:31:03,970 he's not, 666 00:31:03,970 --> 00:31:08,096 he has been here legally with the consent 667 00:31:08,096 --> 00:31:08,846 of the Home Office, 668 00:31:08,846 --> 00:31:13,471 to remain in the country until the appeal is heard. 669 00:31:45,847 --> 00:31:48,681 Anyway, he's gone back. 670 00:31:48,972 --> 00:31:50,180 He's gone back. 671 00:31:50,180 --> 00:31:52,430 Did you explain to him about the appeal? 672 00:31:52,430 --> 00:31:57,056 Yes, I did. They don't want to know anything. 673 00:31:57,056 --> 00:31:59,931 He looked so miserable. 674 00:32:00,847 --> 00:32:04,098 He was hardly talking to us. 675 00:32:05,472 --> 00:32:06,098 (Man) Crying. 676 00:32:06,098 --> 00:32:10,889 Crying all the time, coming from his eyes. 677 00:32:10,889 --> 00:32:12,389 (Ben Lewin) What about the immigration officer? 678 00:32:12,389 --> 00:32:15,765 What was his mood? What was his attitude? 679 00:32:15,765 --> 00:32:17,348 He was very joyful. 680 00:32:17,348 --> 00:32:21,932 He was very joyful because he's sending him back. 681 00:32:21,932 --> 00:32:26,390 And he was the chief immigration officer himself. 682 00:32:26,390 --> 00:32:30,181 - (Ben Lewin) Which one? - The one with the beard. 683 00:32:30,181 --> 00:32:34,015 He is the one who stamped his passport 684 00:32:34,015 --> 00:32:34,556 to go back 685 00:32:34,556 --> 00:32:39,264 and he called a young chap inside to interview us, 686 00:32:39,264 --> 00:32:41,431 and he was sitting next to him. 687 00:32:41,431 --> 00:32:44,848 But mostly questions he was asking. 688 00:32:44,848 --> 00:32:47,307 (Ben Lewin) What was his attitude to you? 689 00:32:47,307 --> 00:32:49,100 Well... To me? 690 00:32:49,100 --> 00:32:49,933 (Ben Lewin) Yeah. 691 00:32:49,933 --> 00:32:52,100 He look all right, but to him, 692 00:32:52,100 --> 00:32:57,100 they ask him who organise this press to come here 693 00:32:57,516 --> 00:33:02,141 and he told them that you organise it. 694 00:33:02,141 --> 00:33:03,100 (Ben Lewin) That I organised it? 695 00:33:03,100 --> 00:33:07,808 Yeah, but I think they were a bit annoyed 696 00:33:07,808 --> 00:33:09,724 to see the press down here. 697 00:33:09,724 --> 00:33:10,474 They didn't like it. 698 00:33:10,474 --> 00:33:14,100 They didn't like it when they see the press. 699 00:33:14,100 --> 00:33:16,766 They close all the windows. 700 00:33:16,766 --> 00:33:20,059 They... they put the lights inside. 701 00:33:20,059 --> 00:33:22,266 All the windows were open when we get in 702 00:33:22,266 --> 00:33:27,266 and when we sit down they put curtains... 703 00:33:27,517 --> 00:33:29,684 (Woman) Inside the police station? 704 00:33:29,684 --> 00:33:31,392 Yeah. 705 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,183 (Ben Lewin) What's your experience been like here? 706 00:33:44,183 --> 00:33:47,142 Experience? What sort of experience? Oh! 707 00:33:47,142 --> 00:33:51,142 My goodness! This is experience? Oh! 708 00:33:51,142 --> 00:33:51,976 Experience is horrible. 709 00:33:51,976 --> 00:33:56,351 Everybody's got the same story, all back along behind there. 710 00:33:56,643 --> 00:33:57,393 How are you treated? 711 00:33:57,393 --> 00:34:00,226 Obviously when I'm treated as a prisoner over here, 712 00:34:00,226 --> 00:34:02,476 you can make a zebra out of me, 713 00:34:02,476 --> 00:34:03,768 like right now you are seeing. 714 00:34:03,768 --> 00:34:06,226 I'm not allowed to step out of this place, 715 00:34:06,226 --> 00:34:07,351 as if I'm a criminal. 716 00:34:07,351 --> 00:34:10,518 I've not committed any crime. 717 00:34:10,518 --> 00:34:13,893 Everybody is depressed. You can see people crying around here. 718 00:34:13,893 --> 00:34:14,518 (Ben Lewin) Hmm? 719 00:34:14,518 --> 00:34:17,060 (Man) You can see people crying around here. 720 00:34:17,060 --> 00:34:20,810 (Ben Lewin) Do people here understand why they're in here? 721 00:34:20,810 --> 00:34:23,143 Well, most of them, if they've not understood, 722 00:34:23,143 --> 00:34:25,893 they're made to understand, do you see? 723 00:34:25,893 --> 00:34:28,726 We had one person in the morning today. 724 00:34:28,726 --> 00:34:29,476 Two of them, rather. 725 00:34:29,476 --> 00:34:31,476 They were going to United States of America, 726 00:34:31,476 --> 00:34:32,393 coming from Saudi Arabia. 727 00:34:32,393 --> 00:34:35,686 They had a transit halt of about 18 hours over here 728 00:34:35,686 --> 00:34:37,435 and they had hotel booking and everything. 729 00:34:37,435 --> 00:34:40,435 These people never allowed them to go the hotel. 730 00:34:40,435 --> 00:34:41,351 They said this was the hotel 731 00:34:41,351 --> 00:34:44,601 and when those poor chaps landed over here, 732 00:34:44,601 --> 00:34:46,435 they were shocked. 733 00:34:46,435 --> 00:34:48,143 They were just shocked, you see. 734 00:34:48,143 --> 00:34:49,601 They felt they were taking them to a hotel. 735 00:34:49,601 --> 00:34:51,726 They didn't know that they were putting them 736 00:34:51,726 --> 00:34:52,476 to a detention camp. 737 00:34:52,476 --> 00:34:54,268 (Ben Lewin) Before this, did you regard yourself 738 00:34:54,268 --> 00:34:57,895 as having any British sympathy, British connections? 739 00:34:57,895 --> 00:35:02,812 I did always feel that I was possessing a British passport 740 00:35:02,812 --> 00:35:03,937 and that was something. 741 00:35:03,937 --> 00:35:05,436 Till such time I have realised 742 00:35:05,436 --> 00:35:07,603 that possessing a British passport, 743 00:35:07,603 --> 00:35:09,145 I think it's a discredit. 744 00:35:09,145 --> 00:35:11,062 Mind you, I'm not going to possess it anymore. 745 00:35:11,062 --> 00:35:13,436 When I go home, I will think it over, 746 00:35:13,436 --> 00:35:14,978 whether I should possess it 747 00:35:14,978 --> 00:35:17,520 or just ask for some other nationality 748 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,436 of some other country, not this one. 749 00:35:20,436 --> 00:35:24,062 He holds a British passport. 750 00:35:24,311 --> 00:35:26,687 And these men, they were kicked out of Burma, 751 00:35:26,687 --> 00:35:29,186 you know about Burma, you see, for about ten years. 752 00:35:29,186 --> 00:35:33,021 For ten good years of his life, he has slogged. 753 00:35:33,021 --> 00:35:34,854 He has slogged. 754 00:35:34,854 --> 00:35:37,105 Just because he's a national of this place, 755 00:35:37,105 --> 00:35:39,979 obviously he's not going to be entitled to work 756 00:35:39,979 --> 00:35:41,479 in any other country other than this. 757 00:35:41,479 --> 00:35:43,562 So, wherever for these ten years he has worked here 758 00:35:43,562 --> 00:35:46,105 he has worked illegally, do you see? 759 00:35:46,105 --> 00:35:47,854 All this... all these years. And poor chap, 760 00:35:47,854 --> 00:35:50,604 he did not have money to come over here all these years. 761 00:35:50,604 --> 00:35:54,063 So now he has borrowed money from his friends, 762 00:35:54,063 --> 00:35:55,854 and landed over here. 763 00:35:55,854 --> 00:35:56,729 (Man murmurs) 764 00:35:56,729 --> 00:35:58,646 Same place, detention room. 765 00:35:58,646 --> 00:36:00,437 (Ben Lewin) What's the average length of stay here? 766 00:36:00,437 --> 00:36:02,730 What seems to be the time that people have to... 767 00:36:02,730 --> 00:36:04,106 The average length? 768 00:36:04,106 --> 00:36:06,147 I won't tell you average length 769 00:36:06,147 --> 00:36:08,772 because most of the people around over here 770 00:36:08,772 --> 00:36:10,230 have stayed more than a week over here. 771 00:36:10,230 --> 00:36:11,897 In fact for myself I have 15 days. 772 00:36:11,897 --> 00:36:13,605 This gentleman must be about 13 days. 773 00:36:13,605 --> 00:36:16,064 And there are people who have stayed for two months 774 00:36:16,064 --> 00:36:17,480 and one month. 775 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:18,480 (Ben Lewin) Mm. 776 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,730 This gentleman over here, he had, 777 00:36:21,730 --> 00:36:26,147 I think, a pure British passport before about 1939. 778 00:36:26,147 --> 00:36:27,939 39, yeah. In the year '39. 779 00:36:27,939 --> 00:36:30,438 He has been setting off for United Kingdom. 780 00:36:30,438 --> 00:36:33,647 Setting off for the United Kingdom by bus. 781 00:36:33,647 --> 00:36:34,271 Past 40 years. 782 00:36:34,271 --> 00:36:35,773 (Ben Lewin) How long has he been here? 783 00:36:35,773 --> 00:36:37,648 (Man) He's been here for about two months now. 784 00:36:37,648 --> 00:36:39,981 - (Ben Lewin) For how long? - For two months, I think. 785 00:36:39,981 --> 00:36:41,356 (Ben Lewin) What's happening with his case? 786 00:36:41,356 --> 00:36:42,981 Well, God alone knows what's happening with his case. 787 00:36:42,981 --> 00:36:45,690 So far he has not been asked to come to the Immigration. 788 00:36:45,690 --> 00:36:47,815 Nobody has informed him anything about it. 789 00:36:47,815 --> 00:36:50,564 This man wanted to come from Karachi to this place 790 00:36:50,564 --> 00:36:51,564 and settle over here. 791 00:36:51,564 --> 00:36:52,731 He says he has a right to settle 792 00:36:52,731 --> 00:36:54,648 because he has got a pure British passport. 793 00:36:54,648 --> 00:36:56,940 Mr Lewin, if you'd like to come and have a word with me, please. 794 00:36:56,940 --> 00:36:59,439 (Ben Lewin) I think I'll have a word with you here. 795 00:36:59,439 --> 00:37:01,439 Look, I'm not required to come and have a word with you. 796 00:37:01,439 --> 00:37:05,398 I'll have a word with you here, if you like, Mr Mitchell. 797 00:37:05,398 --> 00:37:08,357 You're not prepared to come and have a word with me, then? 798 00:37:08,357 --> 00:37:09,857 We can talk here. 799 00:37:09,857 --> 00:37:10,399 Oh, I see. 800 00:37:10,399 --> 00:37:12,399 Well, tell me, have you got permission 801 00:37:12,399 --> 00:37:14,982 from the Home Office PRO for this? 802 00:37:14,982 --> 00:37:17,273 I spoke on Wednesday to Alex Lyon, 803 00:37:17,273 --> 00:37:19,190 the Minister of Immigration 804 00:37:19,190 --> 00:37:21,273 and he has no objection himself 805 00:37:21,273 --> 00:37:25,024 to my filming any matters involving immigration control. 806 00:37:25,024 --> 00:37:27,108 I'll give you his home telephone number. 807 00:37:27,108 --> 00:37:27,607 No, no. 808 00:37:27,607 --> 00:37:31,232 You say you did this on, what, Wednesday of this week? 809 00:37:31,232 --> 00:37:34,607 I spoke to Alex Lyon on Wednesday of this week. 810 00:37:34,607 --> 00:37:35,357 He has no objection 811 00:37:35,357 --> 00:37:37,024 to my filming anything involving immigration control. 812 00:37:37,024 --> 00:37:42,025 But did this include the people in the detention accommodation? 813 00:37:42,650 --> 00:37:43,441 The only proviso was, 814 00:37:43,441 --> 00:37:46,817 that if officials working in the Immigration service 815 00:37:46,817 --> 00:37:48,400 didn't wish to be included in the film, 816 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,942 then I should respect their wishes, 817 00:37:50,942 --> 00:37:52,274 and I've agreed to do that. 818 00:37:52,274 --> 00:37:54,358 So, you've not taken it up directly 819 00:37:54,358 --> 00:37:57,191 with the press relations officer? 820 00:37:57,191 --> 00:38:00,274 You've gone straight to Mr Lyon? 821 00:38:00,274 --> 00:38:00,900 (Ben Lewin) Yes. 822 00:38:00,900 --> 00:38:02,525 But the press relations officer is acquainted with me. 823 00:38:02,525 --> 00:38:05,400 All right. Well, if you say you've cleared it... 824 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:09,608 (Ben Lewin) I haven't asked... I haven't on this occasion 825 00:38:09,608 --> 00:38:11,650 asked the Home Office for any facility, 826 00:38:11,650 --> 00:38:14,401 to provide me with any facility. 827 00:38:14,401 --> 00:38:17,901 But as a personal discussion between myself and Mr Lyon, 828 00:38:17,901 --> 00:38:20,234 - he has nothing to hide. - No, very well. 829 00:38:20,234 --> 00:38:22,234 (Ben Lewin) I don't know if your opinion differs. 830 00:38:22,234 --> 00:38:24,151 Well, if you say that you've done that, 831 00:38:24,151 --> 00:38:26,192 there's nothing much more I can do. 832 00:38:26,192 --> 00:38:27,192 All right, thank you, Mr Lewin. 833 00:38:27,192 --> 00:38:29,651 But if you talk to the officer like this, he believes in you, 834 00:38:29,651 --> 00:38:32,484 but when I tell him that I am right, he doesn't believe in me. 835 00:38:32,484 --> 00:38:35,234 When I tell him that I have come as a visitor, he says no. 836 00:38:35,234 --> 00:38:37,359 When I tell him I've got business over there, he says no. 837 00:38:37,359 --> 00:38:39,026 When I tell him that my wife is pregnant 838 00:38:39,026 --> 00:38:41,734 and I'm expected to reach home earlier, 839 00:38:41,734 --> 00:38:42,317 they say no. 840 00:38:42,317 --> 00:38:44,776 When you say that you have talked to somebody, 841 00:38:44,776 --> 00:38:46,402 he just takes it for granted that you have talked. 842 00:38:46,402 --> 00:38:50,318 Why doesn't he phone after the minister concerned and ask 843 00:38:50,318 --> 00:38:51,860 whether you have taken permission or not? 844 00:38:51,860 --> 00:38:55,235 But just merely, I suppose, because you are white, 845 00:38:55,235 --> 00:38:55,985 and I'm brown, 846 00:38:55,985 --> 00:39:00,111 he takes you for granted and with me, no. 847 00:39:00,111 --> 00:39:02,568 (Vehicle approaches) 848 00:39:02,568 --> 00:39:03,819 (Ben Lewin) I think we'd best be off. 849 00:39:03,819 --> 00:39:06,527 Well, we can see some new faces coming over here. 850 00:39:06,527 --> 00:39:08,985 - They're the latest. - (Ben Lewin) Yes. 851 00:39:08,985 --> 00:39:11,527 (First man) The latest criminals, you see. 852 00:39:11,527 --> 00:39:13,152 God knows what is their crime. 853 00:39:13,152 --> 00:39:15,944 Because over here people come with visas 854 00:39:15,944 --> 00:39:19,194 and even they are refused. 855 00:39:27,611 --> 00:39:31,153 (Lewin) Have you been assisted at all by any outside agency? 856 00:39:31,153 --> 00:39:33,820 (First man) Well, my brother approached the UKIAS 857 00:39:33,820 --> 00:39:35,986 and they said they are going to take care of it, 858 00:39:35,986 --> 00:39:38,236 and UKIAS, I tell you, that's a body 859 00:39:38,236 --> 00:39:41,028 which just doesn't get into my head, you see? 860 00:39:41,028 --> 00:39:42,986 I've been here for bloody 15 days. 861 00:39:42,986 --> 00:39:45,903 Nobody has come to see me so far. Nobody. 862 00:39:45,903 --> 00:39:49,028 One person did come, day before yesterday. 863 00:39:49,028 --> 00:39:51,612 But that is when I phone him up to find out 864 00:39:51,612 --> 00:39:53,570 as to what's the fate of my case. 865 00:39:53,570 --> 00:39:55,612 The man says it's with the Home Office 866 00:39:55,612 --> 00:39:57,612 and he doesn't know the fate of it. 867 00:39:57,612 --> 00:40:00,195 I was working one day late in the office 868 00:40:00,195 --> 00:40:03,113 and then I had a telephone call from Benjani 869 00:40:03,113 --> 00:40:08,113 and he said that I should inform the... Immigration 870 00:40:08,113 --> 00:40:11,779 that he would like to go back if he's not let in. 871 00:40:11,779 --> 00:40:15,946 So, I found him... he was in a bit of a mood, 872 00:40:15,946 --> 00:40:20,529 so I decided that I go and see him personally. 873 00:40:20,529 --> 00:40:24,363 So I visited him in the detention centre 874 00:40:24,363 --> 00:40:28,446 and I gave him a bit of advice. 875 00:40:28,446 --> 00:40:31,446 And advice was that... 876 00:40:31,446 --> 00:40:33,988 be patient. 877 00:40:34,072 --> 00:40:36,905 I wanna stick this up the Immigration. 878 00:40:36,905 --> 00:40:37,446 Of course. 879 00:40:37,446 --> 00:40:42,446 And that is my main... my main idea. 880 00:40:42,780 --> 00:40:43,697 Yeah. 881 00:40:43,697 --> 00:40:47,863 And that's why I want to do this, because I think myself 882 00:40:47,863 --> 00:40:52,655 that it's wrong what they are doing to people. 883 00:40:52,655 --> 00:40:53,238 It is wrong. 884 00:40:53,238 --> 00:40:57,280 They are making people suffer for nothing 885 00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,823 and they're bloody hypocrites 886 00:40:59,823 --> 00:41:03,572 and therefore... and that is the main reason 887 00:41:03,572 --> 00:41:07,073 why I wanna have a go at the Immigration. 888 00:41:07,073 --> 00:41:07,489 Yes. 889 00:41:07,489 --> 00:41:09,614 Well, let 'em change their bloody laws. 890 00:41:09,614 --> 00:41:11,989 They give people passports, British passports, 891 00:41:11,989 --> 00:41:14,280 when they need them, when they wanna milk 'em, 892 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:15,823 and after they can't milk 'em anymore, 893 00:41:15,823 --> 00:41:20,031 the passports, they might as well put it down the toilet. 894 00:41:20,489 --> 00:41:22,823 Now... 895 00:41:22,823 --> 00:41:23,906 I came to see you 896 00:41:23,906 --> 00:41:28,907 because I don't have many contacts in Pakistan and India, 897 00:41:29,699 --> 00:41:34,699 and I wanted to arrange, in view of the new ruling, 898 00:41:35,116 --> 00:41:37,032 by Lord Denning, 899 00:41:37,032 --> 00:41:38,657 that people don't... 900 00:41:38,657 --> 00:41:43,657 or wives of patrioles don't have to... 901 00:41:45,032 --> 00:41:47,740 ...go to the British High Commission 902 00:41:47,740 --> 00:41:51,615 in Delhi or Pakistan, 903 00:41:51,615 --> 00:41:52,407 Karachi, 904 00:41:52,407 --> 00:41:54,532 to get the entry certificates. 905 00:41:54,532 --> 00:41:58,407 It could be given from this country... 906 00:41:58,407 --> 00:42:02,366 ...and therefore people don't have to wait 21 months 907 00:42:02,366 --> 00:42:04,574 before they can join their husbands 908 00:42:04,574 --> 00:42:08,324 and before fathers can see their children. 909 00:42:08,324 --> 00:42:12,700 So, I've come to you to see if we can sort of arrange 910 00:42:12,700 --> 00:42:17,700 whereby we can fetch over 100, 200 or 300 wives... 911 00:42:19,449 --> 00:42:22,700 ...of patrioles into this country, 912 00:42:22,700 --> 00:42:26,199 without having to wait in long queues 913 00:42:26,199 --> 00:42:29,783 and being messed about for 21 months 914 00:42:29,783 --> 00:42:31,950 and maybe longer. 915 00:42:31,950 --> 00:42:34,659 Now, do you have such contacts there? 916 00:42:34,659 --> 00:42:35,701 Yes, yes, we have. 917 00:42:35,701 --> 00:42:38,909 Do you think.... Are you interested in doing this? 918 00:42:38,909 --> 00:42:40,200 Yes. 919 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,367 It says that, um... 920 00:42:42,742 --> 00:42:47,742 golden years for the Pakistani in Britain. 921 00:42:47,867 --> 00:42:48,951 (Man) Hello? 922 00:42:48,951 --> 00:42:50,575 You will be delighted to hear that 923 00:42:50,575 --> 00:42:53,450 that you could bring your children, 924 00:42:53,450 --> 00:42:56,617 your wife from Pakistan 925 00:42:56,617 --> 00:42:59,159 and you don't have to wait so long. 926 00:42:59,159 --> 00:43:02,367 You need a passport. 927 00:43:02,826 --> 00:43:04,492 Marriage certificate. 928 00:43:04,492 --> 00:43:07,576 And a birth certificate. 929 00:43:07,576 --> 00:43:12,493 We are bringing a flight from Pakistan 930 00:43:12,493 --> 00:43:15,201 to carry 300 families, 931 00:43:15,201 --> 00:43:20,201 so if you like to be one of the passengers, 932 00:43:20,868 --> 00:43:23,743 please contact us. 933 00:43:24,368 --> 00:43:25,160 And especially, you see, 934 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,618 they don't have to worry about any legal aspects 935 00:43:27,618 --> 00:43:30,243 and they don't have to be scared 936 00:43:30,243 --> 00:43:31,119 that they'll be sent back. 937 00:43:31,119 --> 00:43:35,410 People from India, Bangladesh, has got no fear. 938 00:43:35,410 --> 00:43:39,619 They could come, jumping up to Britain, 939 00:43:39,619 --> 00:43:40,369 without any problem. 940 00:43:40,369 --> 00:43:43,744 But the people from Pakistan, they've got a bit of problem, 941 00:43:43,744 --> 00:43:44,577 which I'm taking care of. 942 00:43:44,577 --> 00:43:47,078 You know, they won't have any problem. They will come. 943 00:43:47,078 --> 00:43:50,619 After this high court judgement, I feel, 944 00:43:50,619 --> 00:43:53,452 that if we arrange a flight, 945 00:43:53,452 --> 00:43:55,369 and people come here, 946 00:43:55,369 --> 00:43:57,536 at the airport, the immigration officers 947 00:43:57,536 --> 00:44:01,828 will have to give them the OK to enter the country 948 00:44:01,828 --> 00:44:04,327 as legal immigrants 949 00:44:04,327 --> 00:44:05,577 to join their husbands. 950 00:44:05,577 --> 00:44:06,786 What airline will accept them? 951 00:44:06,786 --> 00:44:11,161 Of course, they're all immigrants, all of them. 952 00:44:11,161 --> 00:44:12,453 If you like... 953 00:44:12,453 --> 00:44:13,662 - Yeah. - Yes. 954 00:44:13,662 --> 00:44:16,578 We are bringing them by Russian Airlines. No, let them... 955 00:44:16,578 --> 00:44:20,079 No, we'll even bring them by Air India. 956 00:44:20,079 --> 00:44:21,079 No, no. 957 00:44:21,079 --> 00:44:21,704 British Airways. 958 00:44:21,704 --> 00:44:23,620 We'll bring them by British Airways and Air India. 959 00:44:23,620 --> 00:44:27,704 Look, we've got a very small country over here, very small, 960 00:44:27,704 --> 00:44:30,286 compared to, you know, the world, 961 00:44:30,286 --> 00:44:32,537 - a tiny little country. - Yeah. 962 00:44:32,537 --> 00:44:33,704 Why overpopulate it? 963 00:44:33,704 --> 00:44:36,245 Why make it worse for everybody that's here? 964 00:44:36,245 --> 00:44:37,245 No, it's not overcrowded. 965 00:44:37,245 --> 00:44:38,745 Listen, why did they come in the first place? 966 00:44:38,745 --> 00:44:43,745 You tell me, why did they come here in the first place? 967 00:44:43,787 --> 00:44:44,496 Why did they come? 968 00:44:44,496 --> 00:44:45,496 Why did somebody allow them to come here? 969 00:44:45,496 --> 00:44:48,038 Because they did think they'd have a better life over here. 970 00:44:48,038 --> 00:44:51,038 No, why did somebody allow them here? 971 00:44:51,038 --> 00:44:52,621 - Because they... - They needed 'em. 972 00:44:52,621 --> 00:44:55,871 - Yeah, they needed them, right? - They needed them then. 973 00:44:55,871 --> 00:44:56,996 Yeah, but they don't need 'em now. 974 00:44:56,996 --> 00:44:58,496 You can't say it like that, they don't need them now. 975 00:44:58,496 --> 00:45:00,663 They just keep the manpower and they don't... 976 00:45:00,663 --> 00:45:04,371 they don't want their wives and children. 977 00:45:04,371 --> 00:45:05,871 Why is that? 978 00:45:05,871 --> 00:45:07,538 I know what we're gonna do. 979 00:45:07,538 --> 00:45:10,913 We are going to bring three loads of aeroplanes, 980 00:45:10,913 --> 00:45:14,246 three loads, and we'll see what the Home Office does. 981 00:45:14,246 --> 00:45:17,039 We are going to bring three loads of aeroplanes 982 00:45:17,039 --> 00:45:18,622 full up with wives and children, 983 00:45:18,622 --> 00:45:22,247 which have been stranded in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, 984 00:45:22,247 --> 00:45:24,831 right into Heathrow Airport, Gatwick Airport, 985 00:45:24,831 --> 00:45:26,205 Stansted and Luton Airport. 986 00:45:26,205 --> 00:45:29,247 - Is that all? - No, maybe we'll bring more. 987 00:45:29,247 --> 00:45:32,039 It's a matter of opening a floodgate. 988 00:45:32,039 --> 00:45:36,997 If we open this, we open the floodgate to everybody, 989 00:45:36,997 --> 00:45:38,039 to the world. 990 00:45:38,039 --> 00:45:42,706 The British islands are swamped. They can't take any more people! 991 00:45:42,706 --> 00:45:45,497 My wife and my children have to stay with me. 992 00:45:45,497 --> 00:45:46,455 Yes, your wife and children... 993 00:45:46,455 --> 00:45:49,957 But if they're allowed to come here, and they're not allowed. 994 00:45:49,957 --> 00:45:53,540 That's what we're going to request, the British Government. 995 00:45:53,540 --> 00:45:55,832 To be more human. They're not. 996 00:45:55,832 --> 00:45:57,665 At least some of their officers. 997 00:45:57,665 --> 00:46:02,165 They don't want to consider us on equal par. 998 00:46:02,165 --> 00:46:06,206 What they want, to give the rights to you as white man. 999 00:46:06,206 --> 00:46:07,289 We have the same rights. 1000 00:46:07,289 --> 00:46:10,248 Either they shouldn't admit us in this country. 1001 00:46:10,248 --> 00:46:13,456 If they have... if they have... 1002 00:46:13,456 --> 00:46:16,124 we are working very honourably, 1003 00:46:16,124 --> 00:46:21,124 we are living very, very, very honestly, hard-working. 1004 00:46:21,373 --> 00:46:24,791 We work... It is eight o'clock and I'm still working. 1005 00:46:24,791 --> 00:46:28,374 I earn my living and I earn the right to bring my family 1006 00:46:28,374 --> 00:46:30,125 to enjoy the benefits of my work 1007 00:46:30,125 --> 00:46:34,791 and they can't do that in India or Pakistan or Bangladesh. 1008 00:46:34,791 --> 00:46:35,708 They have to be here 1009 00:46:35,708 --> 00:46:39,624 so that my children can be here to enjoy all the benefits, 1010 00:46:39,624 --> 00:46:44,207 which by my hard work I deserve in this country. 1011 00:46:44,207 --> 00:46:45,083 I deserve as much as you. 1012 00:46:45,083 --> 00:46:50,083 First of all, my criticism is that the adventure is ill-timed 1013 00:46:51,125 --> 00:46:52,374 in the sense that 1014 00:46:52,374 --> 00:46:56,417 the divisional court is considering that matter. 1015 00:46:56,417 --> 00:46:58,583 It might prejudice their decision. 1016 00:46:58,583 --> 00:47:03,208 Secondly, that the way it has been propagated, 1017 00:47:03,208 --> 00:47:05,333 that they don't need an entry certificate, 1018 00:47:05,333 --> 00:47:08,583 that it has already been decided by court. 1019 00:47:08,583 --> 00:47:10,917 I'm just saying they don't need the law. 1020 00:47:10,917 --> 00:47:12,042 That's my view as a lawyer. 1021 00:47:12,042 --> 00:47:15,709 But when you tell the people the law has already decided, 1022 00:47:15,709 --> 00:47:17,333 now that is a mischief. 1023 00:47:17,333 --> 00:47:19,709 It's the wrong way to put it. 1024 00:47:19,709 --> 00:47:22,375 The way it has been advertised in the court of appeal 1025 00:47:22,375 --> 00:47:25,084 has now said Pakistanis don't need entry certificate, 1026 00:47:25,084 --> 00:47:26,750 the court of appeal has not said. 1027 00:47:26,750 --> 00:47:30,876 So one thing was that is a wrong way to inform people. 1028 00:47:30,876 --> 00:47:33,543 And secondly, I come back with the same thing. 1029 00:47:33,543 --> 00:47:36,793 That people ought to know what risk they are taking. 1030 00:47:36,793 --> 00:47:40,543 If they are taking, knowingly, they are taking risk, 1031 00:47:40,543 --> 00:47:43,459 if they know when they are in the air, 1032 00:47:43,459 --> 00:47:45,292 before they land at the airport, 1033 00:47:45,292 --> 00:47:47,835 that all may not be lovely and green, 1034 00:47:47,835 --> 00:47:50,001 they might have to stay in detention 1035 00:47:50,001 --> 00:47:52,292 and are ready to fight for their rights, 1036 00:47:52,292 --> 00:47:54,292 then I'm all for it. 1037 00:47:54,292 --> 00:47:57,001 Mr Dooley, how about a nice cup of coffee 1038 00:47:57,001 --> 00:47:59,168 and we sit down and we have a little talk. 1039 00:47:59,168 --> 00:48:01,128 What about Coca-Cola? 1040 00:48:01,128 --> 00:48:01,877 Better still. 1041 00:48:01,877 --> 00:48:05,627 Cheers, man. Best of luck. 1042 00:48:09,961 --> 00:48:12,711 (Speaking Urdu) 1043 00:48:14,794 --> 00:48:16,794 I made a terrible mistake. 1044 00:48:16,794 --> 00:48:18,252 My brother-in-law came from Finland 1045 00:48:18,252 --> 00:48:20,086 and I took him down Hatton Garden 1046 00:48:20,086 --> 00:48:21,169 and I just bought him a watch. 1047 00:48:21,169 --> 00:48:22,335 (Mr Dooley) You are very angry? 1048 00:48:22,335 --> 00:48:25,460 (Mr Davis) No, I didn't know he sold watches. 1049 00:48:25,460 --> 00:48:27,544 Let my advertisement go through first. 1050 00:48:27,544 --> 00:48:27,961 Yes. 1051 00:48:27,961 --> 00:48:29,752 It will take another... about a week. 1052 00:48:29,752 --> 00:48:33,129 You know, this advertisement may come this Saturday. 1053 00:48:33,129 --> 00:48:33,545 Yes. 1054 00:48:33,545 --> 00:48:37,420 And it reads... should I show... should I read, would you say? 1055 00:48:37,420 --> 00:48:37,962 Please. 1056 00:48:37,962 --> 00:48:39,712 In Urdu or in English or what? 1057 00:48:39,712 --> 00:48:40,670 Well, I don't understand Urdu. 1058 00:48:40,670 --> 00:48:41,920 You'll have to tell me in English what it means. 1059 00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:46,211 Yeah, it's written, how many beds you've got in your house. 1060 00:48:46,211 --> 00:48:47,129 In your home. 1061 00:48:47,129 --> 00:48:51,962 Um... how many trees are in the lawn. 1062 00:48:51,962 --> 00:48:53,837 And what is the colour of your dog. 1063 00:48:53,837 --> 00:48:56,003 And how many animals you got in the house. 1064 00:48:56,003 --> 00:48:57,378 (Mr Davis) What do they want to know that for? 1065 00:48:57,378 --> 00:49:01,170 Yeah, but this is what these people are asked in Pakistan. 1066 00:49:01,170 --> 00:49:04,336 So these are the questions which are asked 1067 00:49:04,336 --> 00:49:08,462 by the entry... the entry visa officer 1068 00:49:08,462 --> 00:49:10,671 in British High Commission in Pakistan. 1069 00:49:10,671 --> 00:49:12,879 (Mr Davis) How many trees they got in the house? 1070 00:49:12,879 --> 00:49:15,879 - What, in Pakistan or here? - In Pakistan. 1071 00:49:15,879 --> 00:49:16,713 And if they don't know, 1072 00:49:16,713 --> 00:49:19,254 they don't think that they are the right people. 1073 00:49:19,254 --> 00:49:20,754 If they don't answer the right question 1074 00:49:20,754 --> 00:49:22,004 they say no, we don't give you visa. 1075 00:49:22,004 --> 00:49:24,130 Well, I've been living in a house 17 years. 1076 00:49:24,130 --> 00:49:26,421 I don't know how many trees I've got in my house. 1077 00:49:26,421 --> 00:49:29,088 So therefore I can't go anywhere. 1078 00:49:29,088 --> 00:49:31,130 This is how they prolong it. 1079 00:49:31,130 --> 00:49:33,963 This is how they prolong the... the dates. 1080 00:49:33,963 --> 00:49:35,796 They give them... keep giving them dates 1081 00:49:35,796 --> 00:49:37,421 until somebody pay them the money. 1082 00:49:37,421 --> 00:49:39,630 And they ask them the colour of the... 1083 00:49:39,630 --> 00:49:41,922 Yeah, the colour of the dog. 1084 00:49:41,922 --> 00:49:42,714 The colour of the dog. 1085 00:49:42,714 --> 00:49:46,296 Do they ask how many times the dog has a piss each day? 1086 00:49:46,296 --> 00:49:48,338 Yeah, of course they do. 1087 00:49:48,338 --> 00:49:49,338 They ask them. 1088 00:49:49,338 --> 00:49:50,880 And if they can't answer them, 1089 00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:52,213 they don't give them any entry permit. 1090 00:49:52,213 --> 00:49:56,839 No, why Home Office should write a letter to me? Why? 1091 00:49:56,839 --> 00:49:59,296 They're very worried. They're worried. 1092 00:49:59,296 --> 00:50:02,588 If the law is all right, why should they write to me? 1093 00:50:02,588 --> 00:50:04,213 Who wrote it? 1094 00:50:04,213 --> 00:50:05,047 Yeah. 1095 00:50:05,047 --> 00:50:06,755 God Almighty. 1096 00:50:06,755 --> 00:50:08,380 Hello? 1097 00:50:08,380 --> 00:50:10,756 That's right, yes. 1098 00:50:10,756 --> 00:50:13,464 Mr who? Oh, yes, he's here, yes. 1099 00:50:13,464 --> 00:50:16,214 One second, please, yes. 1100 00:50:16,214 --> 00:50:17,631 For you. 1101 00:50:17,631 --> 00:50:19,589 Hullo. 1102 00:50:21,214 --> 00:50:26,214 I've been informed that you must have no dealings with me. 1103 00:50:28,048 --> 00:50:32,090 Is that... is that what you're saying? 1104 00:50:32,132 --> 00:50:37,132 Yes, Mr Dooley has been over to my office to see me 1105 00:50:37,673 --> 00:50:41,923 to discuss this plane we're bringing in tomorrow. 1106 00:50:41,923 --> 00:50:44,716 Can I help him with it? 1107 00:50:44,716 --> 00:50:49,674 Yes, well, we've got... no, we've got a letter from you. 1108 00:50:50,257 --> 00:50:51,882 It says that, er... 1109 00:50:51,882 --> 00:50:53,549 the Minister of State, Mr Lyon, 1110 00:50:53,549 --> 00:50:56,298 has asked me to express to you his concern 1111 00:50:56,298 --> 00:50:57,174 about this advertisement 1112 00:50:57,174 --> 00:51:01,674 and to endorse the observations of Mr Sibghat Kadri. 1113 00:51:01,674 --> 00:51:04,924 Who's Mr Sibg... I know Mr Kadi. 1114 00:51:04,924 --> 00:51:07,174 Kadri. I know him well, 1115 00:51:07,174 --> 00:51:08,174 and he's only a young barrister. 1116 00:51:08,174 --> 00:51:12,091 I mean, the barristers that Mr Dooley has been to 1117 00:51:12,091 --> 00:51:15,174 are very senior members of the bar. 1118 00:51:15,174 --> 00:51:18,758 I mean they're real pukka barristers 1119 00:51:18,758 --> 00:51:23,758 and, er, the advice he's got from them is OK. 1120 00:51:24,341 --> 00:51:26,675 Bring them in. 1121 00:51:34,341 --> 00:51:37,092 Just like that? 1122 00:51:37,216 --> 00:51:38,800 Yes, well, when... Right. 1123 00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,134 Well, then, Justice Denning, 1124 00:51:41,134 --> 00:51:44,008 Lord Justice Denning, if he will issue... 1125 00:51:44,008 --> 00:51:47,758 (Clears throat) ...corpus habeus, mandamus papers... 1126 00:51:47,758 --> 00:51:49,718 I don't see how you can return them. 1127 00:51:49,718 --> 00:51:51,592 It'd be contempt of court. 1128 00:51:51,592 --> 00:51:54,467 (Clears throat) Mr Wicks. 1129 00:51:55,384 --> 00:52:00,384 But, Mr Wicks, in all fairness, I told Mr Dooley to cancel it. 1130 00:52:00,718 --> 00:52:03,259 I've tried to tell him to cancel it. 1131 00:52:03,259 --> 00:52:06,051 Because I told him that it's silly. 1132 00:52:06,051 --> 00:52:09,551 He should hire a ship, a boat. 1133 00:52:09,551 --> 00:52:12,009 A great big boat. 1134 00:52:12,759 --> 00:52:15,551 Well, if there's nothing further you can add, 1135 00:52:15,551 --> 00:52:17,342 then we'll have to see and wait to... 1136 00:52:17,342 --> 00:52:20,135 wait and see what happens. 1137 00:52:20,135 --> 00:52:22,260 Ah, bye-bye. 1138 00:52:22,260 --> 00:52:23,260 He's gone mad. 1139 00:52:23,260 --> 00:52:24,136 Nothing further I can add, 1140 00:52:24,136 --> 00:52:27,719 these people will be returned and... 1141 00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:28,301 Yeah. 1142 00:52:28,301 --> 00:52:30,136 So the next meeting will be in a hall? 1143 00:52:30,136 --> 00:52:32,510 Yeah. Would you arrange for a hall, or what? 1144 00:52:32,510 --> 00:52:36,635 Well, I had to tell him that we've got a ship coming over. 1145 00:52:36,635 --> 00:52:37,427 Get them all worried. 1146 00:52:37,427 --> 00:52:39,136 And there's a plane coming over tomorrow. 1147 00:52:39,136 --> 00:52:41,427 And you can bet your life that down at the airport 1148 00:52:41,427 --> 00:52:44,136 there'll be about 600 immigration officers. 1149 00:52:44,136 --> 00:52:45,927 So we'll give the poor immigrants 1150 00:52:45,927 --> 00:52:47,260 a chance in Dover to get in. 1151 00:52:47,260 --> 00:52:50,177 Cos there'll be no immigration officers in Dover. 1152 00:52:50,177 --> 00:52:53,386 They're gonna transfer them all to Heathrow. 1153 00:52:53,386 --> 00:52:53,886 Yeah. 1154 00:52:53,886 --> 00:52:56,469 With all the Securicor people. 1155 00:52:56,469 --> 00:52:56,928 Yeah. 1156 00:52:56,928 --> 00:52:59,302 Which is good because I've got some people coming in Dover 1157 00:52:59,302 --> 00:53:01,511 so I don't want to get them aggravation. 1158 00:53:01,511 --> 00:53:05,678 So they'll be able to come in. Let's divert 'em, shall we? 1159 00:53:05,678 --> 00:53:06,137 Yeah. 1160 00:53:06,137 --> 00:53:07,386 We'll tell 'em they're coming to Heathrow. 1161 00:53:07,386 --> 00:53:09,011 We'll get the plane to land at Gatwick 1162 00:53:09,011 --> 00:53:11,928 and we'll have those immigration officers running up and down. 1163 00:53:11,928 --> 00:53:15,178 They'll be giddy. They won't know where they're running. 1164 00:53:15,178 --> 00:53:16,178 OK, then, Mr Dooley. 1165 00:53:16,178 --> 00:53:17,803 OK, then. Fine. Thanks a lot. 1166 00:53:17,803 --> 00:53:18,469 And I'll see you. 1167 00:53:18,469 --> 00:53:21,428 Yes. Thank you for calling and that's lovely. 1168 00:53:21,428 --> 00:53:22,178 Yeah, yeah. 1169 00:53:22,178 --> 00:53:23,928 I'll have to put in a word first, you see. 1170 00:53:23,928 --> 00:53:27,345 No, we'll fight. You ready to fight? Then we'll fight. 1171 00:53:27,345 --> 00:53:28,929 Yeah, yes. Yes. 1172 00:53:28,929 --> 00:53:31,804 (Speaks Urdu) 1173 00:53:34,971 --> 00:53:36,512 I'm not asking any money or anything. 1174 00:53:36,512 --> 00:53:37,721 (Mr Davis) And therefore you should... 1175 00:53:37,721 --> 00:53:40,470 Asking people to come forward. And let's do together. 1176 00:53:40,470 --> 00:53:42,929 (Mr Davis) Yes, but nobody's come forward, you see? 1177 00:53:42,929 --> 00:53:44,804 You should form yourself into a group. 1178 00:53:44,804 --> 00:53:49,345 Those long waiting queues, they should be eliminated. 1179 00:53:49,345 --> 00:53:50,012 Yes, that's it. 1180 00:53:50,012 --> 00:53:51,887 They must make these arrangements in such a way... 1181 00:53:51,887 --> 00:53:54,512 Yeah, well, what the public is going to do for this? 1182 00:53:54,512 --> 00:53:56,012 So, what we people are going to do for this? 1183 00:53:56,012 --> 00:53:59,555 Are we doing anything? Are we writing to the Home Office? 1184 00:53:59,555 --> 00:54:02,263 We have to agitate here to the Home Office. 1185 00:54:02,263 --> 00:54:04,847 And if you can bring numbers, 200, 300, 1186 00:54:04,847 --> 00:54:08,388 they won't send a planeload of people back. 1187 00:54:08,388 --> 00:54:09,847 We can have 'em out on bail. 1188 00:54:09,847 --> 00:54:13,097 We can have them out on bail to be with you, 1189 00:54:13,097 --> 00:54:14,638 and I think you'll win the case. 1190 00:54:14,638 --> 00:54:17,055 Actually, they cannot withstand the impact 1191 00:54:17,055 --> 00:54:19,180 which will be generated by the numbers. 1192 00:54:19,180 --> 00:54:23,555 (Mr Davis) You've got people fighting for you. 1193 00:54:23,555 --> 00:54:25,930 There should be some reason why. 1194 00:54:25,930 --> 00:54:27,972 Sorry about this, you see, and that's it. 1195 00:54:27,972 --> 00:54:30,888 I thought that you people really need help. 1196 00:54:30,888 --> 00:54:32,556 But you don't need help, do you? 1197 00:54:32,556 --> 00:54:33,639 No, they don't need help. 1198 00:54:33,639 --> 00:54:35,889 I mean, Pakistanis don't need help. 1199 00:54:35,889 --> 00:54:36,681 What help do you need? 1200 00:54:36,681 --> 00:54:38,973 They think everybody on fast now. They're too tired to come. 1201 00:54:38,973 --> 00:54:40,556 Yeah, that's a possibility, you know. 1202 00:54:40,556 --> 00:54:43,723 Tomorrow is a festival, you see. Today's a fast. 1203 00:54:43,723 --> 00:54:44,639 What, tomorrow's Ramadan? 1204 00:54:44,639 --> 00:54:47,347 Yes, end of Ramadan tomorrow, yes. 1205 00:54:47,347 --> 00:54:48,098 The end of Ramadan? 1206 00:54:48,098 --> 00:54:50,681 It's a feast day, you know, it's a holiday. 1207 00:54:50,681 --> 00:54:51,639 All right, OK. 1208 00:54:51,639 --> 00:54:52,597 We're fasting for Ramadan. 1209 00:54:52,597 --> 00:54:56,264 All right, we'll go along then. We'll speak to them tomorrow. 1210 00:54:56,264 --> 00:54:57,431 - Yes. - It's a good idea. 1211 00:54:57,431 --> 00:54:58,848 That's what we should have done in the first place. 1212 00:54:58,848 --> 00:55:01,347 Gone to the mosques. In the first place. 1213 00:55:01,347 --> 00:55:03,514 Yeah, you're right. 1214 00:55:13,015 --> 00:55:15,974 Well, the people here in this country, 1215 00:55:15,974 --> 00:55:17,765 who are living here, you see, 1216 00:55:17,765 --> 00:55:21,099 they are living scattered all over 1217 00:55:21,099 --> 00:55:23,890 and they're not organised. 1218 00:55:23,890 --> 00:55:28,306 That has been the main, you see, difficulty, 1219 00:55:28,306 --> 00:55:30,974 that, as you have witnessed inside, 1220 00:55:30,974 --> 00:55:35,640 that there has not been a good gathering over here. 1221 00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:39,433 I mean, some of us... for instance, myself, 1222 00:55:39,433 --> 00:55:42,142 I'm not faced with any difficulty 1223 00:55:42,142 --> 00:55:44,307 so far as this problem is concerned. 1224 00:55:44,307 --> 00:55:47,433 But I'm interested in the problem itself 1225 00:55:47,433 --> 00:55:48,683 and its solution, 1226 00:55:48,683 --> 00:55:53,683 because the solution, it is so, so difficult 1227 00:55:54,850 --> 00:55:56,474 for the Pakistanis 1228 00:55:56,474 --> 00:56:01,474 that so far we haven't seen anything, 1229 00:56:01,558 --> 00:56:03,016 you see, coming out. 1230 00:56:03,016 --> 00:56:08,016 People whose wives are waiting to join them, 1231 00:56:08,433 --> 00:56:11,225 they are giving dates. 1232 00:56:12,059 --> 00:56:16,684 Their applications to be examined in Islamabad 1233 00:56:16,684 --> 00:56:19,434 in 1977. 1234 00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:21,059 You see? 1235 00:56:21,059 --> 00:56:26,059 For instance, this gentleman, his daughter, you see, 1236 00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:31,308 has applied to come to her father, 1237 00:56:31,308 --> 00:56:34,517 and she has applied in Islamabad, 1238 00:56:34,517 --> 00:56:36,642 and she has been given a date 1239 00:56:36,642 --> 00:56:39,726 for her application to be examined 1240 00:56:39,726 --> 00:56:42,935 and for her to be interviewed 1241 00:56:42,935 --> 00:56:45,226 in July '77. 1242 00:56:45,226 --> 00:56:47,768 When did she apply? 1243 00:56:47,768 --> 00:56:49,435 About six month ago. 1244 00:56:49,435 --> 00:56:51,060 She applied six months ago. 1245 00:56:51,060 --> 00:56:53,144 And she was already in this country 1246 00:56:53,144 --> 00:56:55,185 over four and a half years, 1247 00:56:55,185 --> 00:56:57,560 and she went back in 1969. 1248 00:56:57,560 --> 00:56:59,768 What kind of business are you doing here? 1249 00:56:59,768 --> 00:57:04,060 (Ben Lewin) I'm making a film about it, about these problems. 1250 00:57:04,060 --> 00:57:06,435 Well, how do you like this jacket? 1251 00:57:06,435 --> 00:57:08,435 - (Ben Lewin) How do I like it? - Yes. 1252 00:57:08,435 --> 00:57:11,060 (Ben Lewin) I've had it for ten years. 1253 00:57:11,060 --> 00:57:12,268 - Ten years? - Yes. 1254 00:57:12,268 --> 00:57:15,394 It's time you had a new one now. 1255 00:57:15,394 --> 00:57:16,894 - You think so? - Yes. 1256 00:57:16,894 --> 00:57:17,853 I'm very attached to this one. 1257 00:57:17,853 --> 00:57:22,145 Oh, it's very nice, but we are dealing in leather jackets. 1258 00:57:22,145 --> 00:57:22,936 (Ben Lewin) Oh, yeah? 1259 00:57:22,936 --> 00:57:24,436 We are dealing in leather jackets, 1260 00:57:24,436 --> 00:57:27,853 and actually these are very expensive garments. 1261 00:57:27,853 --> 00:57:30,186 But we'll do a deal, cheap for you, 1262 00:57:30,186 --> 00:57:32,145 since you are interested in our problems. 1263 00:57:32,145 --> 00:57:36,769 (Ben Lewin) Mm. You'll also take interest in mine? 1264 00:57:36,769 --> 00:57:37,269 Yes. Yes. 1265 00:57:37,269 --> 00:57:40,602 (Ben Lewin) Well, I've never really regarded this jacket 1266 00:57:40,602 --> 00:57:43,436 as one of my problems. 1267 00:58:02,270 --> 00:58:04,228 Thanet House. 1268 00:58:04,228 --> 00:58:07,146 And we go in there. 1269 00:58:12,020 --> 00:58:13,187 - (Woman coughs) - All right. 1270 00:58:13,187 --> 00:58:14,729 Would you like to go in the waiting room? 1271 00:58:14,729 --> 00:58:16,770 We're gonna have a colonial hearing today. 1272 00:58:16,770 --> 00:58:18,395 Of course. In there. 1273 00:58:18,395 --> 00:58:20,229 Now, I've forgot my native boy. 1274 00:58:20,229 --> 00:58:24,271 He's coming along with a palm leaf in a minute 1275 00:58:24,271 --> 00:58:26,688 and he's wearing a loincloth. 1276 00:58:26,688 --> 00:58:27,147 Is he? 1277 00:58:27,147 --> 00:58:30,229 So, please show him the way to the waiting room. 1278 00:58:30,229 --> 00:58:30,730 I will. 1279 00:58:30,730 --> 00:58:34,980 Right, and my two bearers will come along in a minute. 1280 00:58:34,980 --> 00:58:37,229 - Is that OK? - (Laughing) Yes, sir. 1281 00:58:37,229 --> 00:58:40,063 Are you calling any more witnesses? 1282 00:58:40,063 --> 00:58:40,896 Er... yes. 1283 00:58:40,896 --> 00:58:42,938 The names were all taken, weren't they? 1284 00:58:42,938 --> 00:58:46,063 The coach will be along in about one hour. 1285 00:58:46,063 --> 00:58:46,813 (They laugh) 1286 00:58:46,813 --> 00:58:49,271 You'd had two witnesses, hadn't you? 1287 00:58:49,271 --> 00:58:49,771 Yes. 1288 00:58:49,771 --> 00:58:51,147 And there's one more to go. 1289 00:58:51,147 --> 00:58:53,981 Yes, we have this gentleman to go. 1290 00:58:53,981 --> 00:58:54,731 Oh, fine. Any more? 1291 00:58:54,731 --> 00:58:58,355 The coach. I don't know what time the coach will be down. 1292 00:58:58,355 --> 00:58:59,148 Are you joking? 1293 00:58:59,148 --> 00:59:00,230 No, they've just come off... 1294 00:59:00,230 --> 00:59:03,772 They've just come off. The plane has just landed. 1295 00:59:03,772 --> 00:59:06,064 With the 72 Pakistanis. 1296 00:59:06,064 --> 00:59:06,689 (Woman laughs) 1297 00:59:06,689 --> 00:59:08,564 They'll be along soon. They're coming straight along. 1298 00:59:08,564 --> 00:59:11,939 Right. We're in the big tribunal room. 1299 00:59:11,939 --> 00:59:13,313 Are we? That's fine. 1300 00:59:13,313 --> 00:59:16,647 I never know whether he's joking or not. 1301 00:59:16,897 --> 00:59:19,022 - It's hot in Africa. - I was gonna say. 1302 00:59:19,022 --> 00:59:21,480 It's goddamn hot in this midday sun. 1303 00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:26,481 - Mr McCall will like that. - Tigers all around me. 1304 00:59:26,732 --> 00:59:29,898 There we are. Have you already been a witness? 1305 00:59:29,898 --> 00:59:30,356 Yeah. 1306 00:59:30,356 --> 00:59:32,523 Oh, so you can sit anywhere you like. 1307 00:59:32,523 --> 00:59:36,523 And do you want him... Shall I sit him there? 1308 00:59:36,523 --> 00:59:38,606 You're gonna be straightaway... 1309 00:59:38,606 --> 00:59:41,565 (Mr Davis) Isn't it a fact you refused these people 1310 00:59:41,565 --> 00:59:45,314 because they were Cypriots? 1311 00:59:45,314 --> 00:59:46,690 (Man) You're coming very close 1312 00:59:46,690 --> 00:59:49,690 to attacking this witness's character. 1313 00:59:49,690 --> 00:59:52,940 - (Mr Davis) Am I really? - (Man) Yes. 1314 00:59:54,023 --> 00:59:55,940 (Mr Davis) Do you know a Chirin Gheling? 1315 00:59:55,940 --> 00:59:57,691 (Man) Well, do you know a Mr Chirin Gheling? 1316 00:59:57,691 --> 00:59:59,607 (Man 2) Yes, he's the Chief Immigration Officer 1317 00:59:59,607 --> 01:00:02,399 mentioned in the last paragraph here. 1318 01:00:02,399 --> 01:00:04,649 (Mr Davis) Very well. Did you know what... 1319 01:00:04,649 --> 01:00:07,232 did you know that Mr Chirin Gheling told me 1320 01:00:07,232 --> 01:00:09,774 that he doesn't like Cypriots, they're all liars? 1321 01:00:09,774 --> 01:00:12,024 (Mr McCall) Mr... Don't answer that question. 1322 01:00:12,024 --> 01:00:12,941 It's completely irrelevant. 1323 01:00:12,941 --> 01:00:14,066 (Mr Davis) I'm asking if he knows about it. 1324 01:00:14,066 --> 01:00:16,274 (Mr McCall) Well, I'm telling him not to answer it. 1325 01:00:16,274 --> 01:00:16,941 (Mr Davis) Why? 1326 01:00:16,941 --> 01:00:18,733 (Mr McCall) Because it's completely irrelevant. 1327 01:00:18,733 --> 01:00:19,649 (Mr Davis) Why? 1328 01:00:19,649 --> 01:00:21,774 (Mr McCall) Because I say so. 1329 01:00:21,774 --> 01:00:24,108 (Mr Davis) Why? 1330 01:00:24,108 --> 01:00:26,607 (Mr McCall) Mr Davis, please get on with it. 1331 01:00:26,607 --> 01:00:29,232 (Mr Davis) The reason for not letting this man in 1332 01:00:29,232 --> 01:00:33,608 was that you thought he had too much money. 1333 01:00:33,608 --> 01:00:34,942 £550. 1334 01:00:34,942 --> 01:00:37,775 (Mr Gaughn) One of the reasons was that, er... 1335 01:00:37,775 --> 01:00:42,775 his funds compared with his, um... salary 1336 01:00:42,942 --> 01:00:47,151 initially, as the driver of a shunting locomotive 1337 01:00:47,151 --> 01:00:51,984 and then subsequently after being a refugee, 1338 01:00:51,984 --> 01:00:54,109 um... 1339 01:00:54,275 --> 01:00:55,984 ...as the driver of a bulldozer, 1340 01:00:55,984 --> 01:01:00,109 that, er... he seemed to have a lot of money 1341 01:01:00,109 --> 01:01:02,860 compared with his earnings. 1342 01:01:02,860 --> 01:01:04,193 (Mr Davis) Well, on the same flight 1343 01:01:04,193 --> 01:01:06,860 there was a chap by the name of Chris Ndulu. 1344 01:01:06,860 --> 01:01:11,860 He was sent back because he never had enough money. 1345 01:01:13,026 --> 01:01:16,276 He only had £320. 1346 01:01:16,401 --> 01:01:18,152 On himself. Now, what's enough money? 1347 01:01:18,152 --> 01:01:20,276 I want to ascertain what is enough money. 1348 01:01:20,276 --> 01:01:22,317 (Mr McCall) Don't answer that question. It's irrelevant. 1349 01:01:22,317 --> 01:01:24,860 (Mr Davis) I think it's a lot of rubbish with you people! 1350 01:01:24,860 --> 01:01:26,359 You look at a person's face 1351 01:01:26,359 --> 01:01:30,110 and they turn round and say too much money, 1352 01:01:30,110 --> 01:01:31,484 not enough money. 1353 01:01:31,484 --> 01:01:32,568 You went to Greece for a holiday. 1354 01:01:32,568 --> 01:01:35,944 How much money did you take with you? 1355 01:01:35,944 --> 01:01:37,902 (Mr McCall) You needn't answer that question. 1356 01:01:37,902 --> 01:01:39,111 (Mr Davis) Can't answer this question, 1357 01:01:39,111 --> 01:01:42,235 you can't answer that question, you can't answer this... 1358 01:01:42,235 --> 01:01:47,235 It's a perfect, legitimate, relevant question. 1359 01:01:47,610 --> 01:01:50,485 (Mr McCaw) I don't agree with you. Don't answer it. 1360 01:01:50,485 --> 01:01:51,986 (Mr Davis) Because I know people here, 1361 01:01:51,986 --> 01:01:54,777 that come over here, to this country... 1362 01:01:54,777 --> 01:01:58,235 Six weeks ago, an Arab come to this country 1363 01:01:58,235 --> 01:02:00,819 and, sir, these people said, 1364 01:02:00,819 --> 01:02:03,194 "Are you gonna work in this country?" 1365 01:02:03,194 --> 01:02:03,944 Man says no. 1366 01:02:03,944 --> 01:02:07,111 "If I gave you a chance to work in this country..." 1367 01:02:07,111 --> 01:02:07,736 (Mr McCaw) Mm. 1368 01:02:07,736 --> 01:02:08,737 "...would you work in this country?" 1369 01:02:08,737 --> 01:02:11,695 The Arab said, "Look at my passport, you idiot. 1370 01:02:11,695 --> 01:02:14,070 "I'm the son of the Sheik of Kuwait!" 1371 01:02:14,070 --> 01:02:17,195 (Mr McCaw) Mr Davis, you really go too far. 1372 01:02:17,195 --> 01:02:18,778 Now, get on with it, please. 1373 01:02:18,778 --> 01:02:21,945 Otherwise I'll have to withdraw my recognition of you. 1374 01:02:21,945 --> 01:02:22,737 (Mr Davis) Have to... 1375 01:02:22,737 --> 01:02:24,195 (Mr McCall) I'll have to withdraw my recognition of you 1376 01:02:24,195 --> 01:02:27,987 as an advocate in this, er... hearing. 1377 01:02:27,987 --> 01:02:29,570 I've got the power so to do. 1378 01:02:29,570 --> 01:02:30,528 (Mr Davis) Of course you have. 1379 01:02:30,528 --> 01:02:31,737 (Mr McCaw) You've tried my patience... 1380 01:02:31,737 --> 01:02:34,154 (Mr Davis) Of course you have your instructions as well 1381 01:02:34,154 --> 01:02:35,154 from the Home Office. 1382 01:02:35,154 --> 01:02:37,570 (Mr McCaw) Well, now, under those circumstances, 1383 01:02:37,570 --> 01:02:40,654 you bring me to the brink of withdrawing. 1384 01:02:40,654 --> 01:02:42,404 That is an infamous observation. 1385 01:02:42,404 --> 01:02:44,779 (Mr Davis) There has been instruction... 1386 01:02:44,779 --> 01:02:46,237 There's the evidence here. 1387 01:02:46,237 --> 01:02:49,237 (Mr McCaw) I am a completely independent adjudicator, 1388 01:02:49,237 --> 01:02:51,071 subject to no influence whatsoever. 1389 01:02:51,071 --> 01:02:55,571 "From your conduct in this building, as reported to me, 1390 01:02:55,571 --> 01:02:59,029 "by certain of my colleagues and staff, 1391 01:02:59,029 --> 01:03:01,071 "I have for some time suspected 1392 01:03:01,071 --> 01:03:03,571 "that you are not a fit and proper person 1393 01:03:03,571 --> 01:03:08,404 "to be allowed to represent appellants before adjudicators." 1394 01:03:08,404 --> 01:03:11,779 Took 'em two years to find out that I wasn't a... 1395 01:03:11,779 --> 01:03:13,739 fit and proper person. 1396 01:03:13,739 --> 01:03:15,905 It's up to me to decide 1397 01:03:15,905 --> 01:03:19,488 with whom the Home Office will deal. 1398 01:03:20,363 --> 01:03:21,905 And, er... 1399 01:03:21,905 --> 01:03:25,280 where there's such a wide range of choice 1400 01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:28,238 and there is this very... 1401 01:03:28,238 --> 01:03:29,822 difficult question, 1402 01:03:29,822 --> 01:03:34,030 about the control of a professional agent, 1403 01:03:34,030 --> 01:03:36,572 um... I think that it's legitimate 1404 01:03:36,572 --> 01:03:38,780 to make the ruling in the way that I did. 1405 01:03:38,780 --> 01:03:41,613 (Lewin) As you would know from a Sunday Times comment, 1406 01:03:41,613 --> 01:03:44,156 though, there is a certain Levantine philosophy 1407 01:03:44,156 --> 01:03:46,698 that you get only what you pay for. 1408 01:03:46,698 --> 01:03:50,698 Well, I think there is a feeling among some groups 1409 01:03:50,698 --> 01:03:54,948 that unless the advice that is offered to them 1410 01:03:54,948 --> 01:03:55,740 is paid for, 1411 01:03:55,740 --> 01:03:58,157 it's unlikely to be very sound advice, 1412 01:03:58,157 --> 01:03:59,990 but I think it's... 1413 01:03:59,990 --> 01:04:04,448 it's an attitude that we ought to try to resist 1414 01:04:04,448 --> 01:04:07,573 because I'm absolutely certain 1415 01:04:07,573 --> 01:04:11,198 that the voluntary organisations, by and large, 1416 01:04:11,198 --> 01:04:12,865 give excellent advice 1417 01:04:12,865 --> 01:04:15,157 and that the kind of efforts that are made 1418 01:04:15,157 --> 01:04:18,615 by members of parliament in particular 1419 01:04:18,615 --> 01:04:21,074 on behalf of constituents, 1420 01:04:21,074 --> 01:04:24,074 are... very effective, 1421 01:04:24,074 --> 01:04:27,158 and therefore it is unnecessary 1422 01:04:27,158 --> 01:04:29,907 in dealing with immigration 1423 01:04:29,907 --> 01:04:32,866 to have paid agencies, in my view. 1424 01:04:32,866 --> 01:04:34,949 (Ben Lewin) It is unnecessary? 1425 01:04:34,949 --> 01:04:36,282 Mm. 1426 01:04:36,282 --> 01:04:37,824 (Coughs) 1427 01:04:37,824 --> 01:04:40,116 (Mr Lyon) On 7th August this year, 1428 01:04:40,116 --> 01:04:43,032 I asked Mr Davis to see me. 1429 01:04:43,032 --> 01:04:47,574 He explained that he considered immigration control 1430 01:04:47,574 --> 01:04:48,615 to be a joke, 1431 01:04:48,615 --> 01:04:51,950 and since the situation was what it was 1432 01:04:51,950 --> 01:04:52,992 that he saw no reason 1433 01:04:52,992 --> 01:04:56,992 why he should not base a business upon it. 1434 01:04:56,992 --> 01:04:59,658 There is little evidence to show that at any stage 1435 01:04:59,658 --> 01:05:02,324 that he's done anything that is illegal. 1436 01:05:02,324 --> 01:05:04,867 But he is the kind of engaging conman 1437 01:05:04,867 --> 01:05:09,700 who works in the East End markets, selling plates. 1438 01:05:09,700 --> 01:05:11,200 (People laugh) 1439 01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:12,950 With people who are immigrants 1440 01:05:12,950 --> 01:05:17,825 he is a very dangerous man indeed to be let at large. 1441 01:05:17,825 --> 01:05:18,658 (Man coughs) 1442 01:05:18,658 --> 01:05:19,783 Therefore I decided 1443 01:05:19,783 --> 01:05:24,284 that we were going to put a stop to his activities. 1444 01:05:24,617 --> 01:05:29,118 He claims that his average price is about £50. 1445 01:05:29,118 --> 01:05:33,118 On that basis, if my honourable friend is right in saying 1446 01:05:33,118 --> 01:05:36,242 that he does 1,000 cases a year, 1447 01:05:36,242 --> 01:05:39,034 his average income is £50,000. 1448 01:05:39,034 --> 01:05:41,201 (Man) How are the public to sum you up, Mr Davis? 1449 01:05:41,201 --> 01:05:43,576 Your sincerity might bring tears to their eyes. 1450 01:05:43,576 --> 01:05:45,701 At the same time they might feel that 1451 01:05:45,701 --> 01:05:48,242 no minister would call you an East End conman 1452 01:05:48,242 --> 01:05:49,826 if he didn't have some facts to back him up. 1453 01:05:49,826 --> 01:05:52,743 (Mr Davis) He's accused me of selling plates off of a barrow. 1454 01:05:52,743 --> 01:05:56,161 There's nothing wrong in selling plates off of a barrow. 1455 01:05:56,161 --> 01:05:58,577 Maybe Alex Lyon doesn't eat off plates. 1456 01:05:58,577 --> 01:06:01,702 Maybe he eats off the floor. I don't know. 1457 01:06:01,702 --> 01:06:05,535 Mr Lyon said in Parliament that you earn £50,000 a year. 1458 01:06:05,535 --> 01:06:07,702 He said you told him that. Is that true? 1459 01:06:07,702 --> 01:06:12,702 No, I told Alex Lyon that I earn £50,000 a week. 1460 01:06:12,827 --> 01:06:13,410 Not a year. 1461 01:06:13,410 --> 01:06:16,618 Because Alex Lyon, after five minutes, 1462 01:06:16,618 --> 01:06:18,660 I realised I was talking to a nut. 1463 01:06:18,660 --> 01:06:23,660 I... I run my organisation in this manner. 1464 01:06:23,827 --> 01:06:26,285 People who can afford to pay 1465 01:06:26,285 --> 01:06:30,036 subsidise the people who cannot afford to pay. 1466 01:06:30,036 --> 01:06:33,369 And I say that I earn about seven and a half thousand. 1467 01:06:33,369 --> 01:06:37,578 About seven and a half thousand to ten thousand a year. 1468 01:06:37,578 --> 01:06:41,036 Alex Lyon can make any allegation he likes. 1469 01:06:41,036 --> 01:06:42,703 When I was with Alex Lyon, 1470 01:06:42,703 --> 01:06:45,911 and he told me he wants to be a priest, 1471 01:06:45,911 --> 01:06:47,453 and I said, "Well, good luck to you, 1472 01:06:47,453 --> 01:06:49,036 "I hope you'll be a bishop one day 1473 01:06:49,036 --> 01:06:51,411 "and I can become your curate." 1474 01:06:51,411 --> 01:06:53,536 He's gonna be a parish priest? God help us. 1475 01:06:53,536 --> 01:06:56,494 He'll be worse than Oliver Cromwell, won't he? 1476 01:06:56,494 --> 01:06:57,078 (Laughs) 1477 01:06:57,078 --> 01:06:58,203 They've done some shocking things. 1478 01:06:58,203 --> 01:07:01,912 I think when anyone takes a young girl of 13 years of age 1479 01:07:01,912 --> 01:07:03,287 for no apparent reason 1480 01:07:03,287 --> 01:07:04,954 and sticks 'em in a concentration camp... 1481 01:07:04,954 --> 01:07:07,412 Because we've got concentration camps in this country. 1482 01:07:07,412 --> 01:07:11,662 I took a lady out of the concentration camp last week. 1483 01:07:11,662 --> 01:07:13,495 She was there six months pregnant 1484 01:07:13,495 --> 01:07:15,746 and she has been there for seven weeks. 1485 01:07:15,746 --> 01:07:16,662 She committed no crime. 1486 01:07:16,662 --> 01:07:19,079 She came over here to join her husband. 1487 01:07:19,079 --> 01:07:21,954 Yeah, it's a legal right for a woman to join her husband. 1488 01:07:21,954 --> 01:07:23,787 He is a resident in this country. 1489 01:07:23,787 --> 01:07:27,537 Right of abode in this country, in the United Kingdom. 1490 01:07:27,537 --> 01:07:30,454 Why can't she join her husband? 1491 01:07:30,454 --> 01:07:34,955 So, I brought my wife with me on 12th October 1492 01:07:34,955 --> 01:07:38,747 and then they take her in a detention centre 1493 01:07:38,747 --> 01:07:42,080 and they locked her up to seven weeks over there. 1494 01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:44,371 - (Man) For how long? - Seven weeks. 1495 01:07:44,371 --> 01:07:45,872 (Ben Lewin) Which detention centre? 1496 01:07:45,872 --> 01:07:50,164 Er... Harmondsworth Detention Centre. 1497 01:07:50,164 --> 01:07:52,955 So I have to go there. 1498 01:07:53,122 --> 01:07:54,455 If I take her any food, 1499 01:07:54,455 --> 01:07:57,747 they say the food is not allowed, 1500 01:07:57,747 --> 01:07:59,038 and she was pregnant. 1501 01:07:59,038 --> 01:08:01,122 She had to feed two people 1502 01:08:01,122 --> 01:08:04,580 and they just giving her only rice dinnertime, 1503 01:08:04,580 --> 01:08:05,705 and rice the night-time. 1504 01:08:05,705 --> 01:08:07,998 (Ben Lewin) How much pregnant is she? What's her... 1505 01:08:07,998 --> 01:08:10,831 (Man) She was over six months pregnant 1506 01:08:10,831 --> 01:08:14,873 and sometimes she was quite hungry there. 1507 01:08:14,873 --> 01:08:17,206 (Ben Lewin) Could she rest there? 1508 01:08:17,206 --> 01:08:19,289 She have no rest at all. 1509 01:08:19,289 --> 01:08:20,081 (Ben Lewin) Why not? 1510 01:08:20,081 --> 01:08:23,914 Because they never, er... open her room 1511 01:08:23,914 --> 01:08:25,539 so she can lie down somewhere. 1512 01:08:25,539 --> 01:08:27,997 - (Ben Lewin) Her bedroom? - Bedroom, yes. 1513 01:08:27,997 --> 01:08:30,081 (Ben Lewin) Why? What happened? 1514 01:08:30,081 --> 01:08:35,081 They're locked from 9am, nine o'clock, 1515 01:08:35,165 --> 01:08:37,664 and up till 9pm. 1516 01:08:37,664 --> 01:08:40,166 They don't open the room till 9 or 10. 1517 01:08:40,166 --> 01:08:42,040 (Ben Lewin) So, she couldn't lie down? 1518 01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:43,665 No, she couldn't lie down. 1519 01:08:43,665 --> 01:08:47,707 If she tries, sometimes she like to be, like relax, 1520 01:08:47,707 --> 01:08:52,124 then she have to make two chairs together. 1521 01:08:52,124 --> 01:08:54,372 (Ben Lewin) What did you do once... 1522 01:08:54,372 --> 01:08:57,331 once they put her inside the detention centre? 1523 01:08:57,331 --> 01:09:01,082 Well, I went to see someone at the detention centre. 1524 01:09:01,082 --> 01:09:04,915 I went to see the UK Advisory Service. 1525 01:09:04,915 --> 01:09:08,582 I said, what I should do? They said you can see your MP. 1526 01:09:08,582 --> 01:09:12,125 But our MP was sitting in the House of Commons that time. 1527 01:09:12,125 --> 01:09:14,624 I couldn't speak to my MP at all. 1528 01:09:14,624 --> 01:09:16,332 Then I was fail everywhere 1529 01:09:16,332 --> 01:09:19,750 then I went to see the solicitor. 1530 01:09:19,750 --> 01:09:23,416 The solicitor said to me, "I will take £100." 1531 01:09:23,416 --> 01:09:24,208 (Ben Lewin) How much? 1532 01:09:24,208 --> 01:09:27,916 £100, before I spoke to anybody. 1533 01:09:27,916 --> 01:09:29,416 I said OK. 1534 01:09:29,416 --> 01:09:32,041 Go ahead, I gave him £100. 1535 01:09:32,041 --> 01:09:33,666 (Ben Lewin) What did he do for the £100? 1536 01:09:33,666 --> 01:09:36,875 Well, he just took it and put it in his pocket. 1537 01:09:36,875 --> 01:09:38,750 (Ben Lewin) No, but what work did he do? 1538 01:09:38,750 --> 01:09:41,291 What work he done, he done this one. 1539 01:09:41,291 --> 01:09:43,499 He wrote a letter to MP 1540 01:09:43,499 --> 01:09:47,209 and he wrote a letter to immigration officer 1541 01:09:47,209 --> 01:09:50,625 and he sent a copy to the Home Office as well. 1542 01:09:50,625 --> 01:09:55,625 So, then they says, OK, we will be... stop your wife. 1543 01:09:55,666 --> 01:10:00,666 As long as his MP involve in this case. 1544 01:10:00,834 --> 01:10:02,375 So it was seven weeks. 1545 01:10:02,375 --> 01:10:07,333 I never heard after that what is going on, where I'm going. 1546 01:10:07,333 --> 01:10:09,709 I got fed up, you know? 1547 01:10:09,709 --> 01:10:12,541 Then I went to Mr Davis. 1548 01:10:12,541 --> 01:10:17,460 Then he told me that... he phoned to everywhere. 1549 01:10:17,460 --> 01:10:19,835 I mean in the journalists' papers there's... 1550 01:10:19,835 --> 01:10:22,793 I know he done a lot of work for me. 1551 01:10:22,793 --> 01:10:26,460 Then he put in the papers, Times, Guardian, 1552 01:10:26,460 --> 01:10:28,460 It came to the Guardian. 1553 01:10:28,460 --> 01:10:30,293 She was released same day 1554 01:10:30,293 --> 01:10:32,626 when the article came in the paper. 1555 01:10:32,626 --> 01:10:34,877 (Ben Lewin) Your wife doesn't speak English, does she? 1556 01:10:34,877 --> 01:10:36,418 No, she cannot speak English at all. 1557 01:10:36,418 --> 01:10:39,210 (Ben Lewin) What does she think of her whole experience? 1558 01:10:39,210 --> 01:10:40,043 Was she surprised that... 1559 01:10:40,043 --> 01:10:43,460 Well, she was thinking, that we were thinking everywhere, 1560 01:10:43,460 --> 01:10:48,460 that is Britain is very great, very humanity over there, 1561 01:10:48,793 --> 01:10:50,710 people is nice, 1562 01:10:50,710 --> 01:10:52,210 and everything is going well, 1563 01:10:52,210 --> 01:10:54,377 people love dogs and cats. 1564 01:10:54,377 --> 01:10:56,170 But I've seen different in here. 1565 01:10:56,170 --> 01:10:57,335 People love dogs and cats. 1566 01:10:57,335 --> 01:11:01,835 They don't love people each and other. 1567 01:11:01,835 --> 01:11:03,003 Huh? 1568 01:11:03,003 --> 01:11:05,044 So, I'm pregnant woman. 1569 01:11:05,044 --> 01:11:08,585 What I have suffer, I know, she says. 1570 01:11:08,585 --> 01:11:12,128 But nobody else knows. 1571 01:11:12,128 --> 01:11:16,753 I don't want you to think that I am for immigration. 1572 01:11:16,753 --> 01:11:17,419 I'm against it. 1573 01:11:17,419 --> 01:11:21,627 I don't believe we should have a million Pakistanis over here 1574 01:11:21,627 --> 01:11:23,503 and five million Africans 1575 01:11:23,503 --> 01:11:28,503 and, er... four and a half million West Indians. 1576 01:11:30,670 --> 01:11:31,295 I'm against... 1577 01:11:31,295 --> 01:11:35,920 But the British Government printed a lot of passports, 1578 01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:40,253 and they didn't know what to do with these passports. 1579 01:11:40,253 --> 01:11:41,045 They printed too many 1580 01:11:41,045 --> 01:11:43,420 and they gave them out to all these people. 1581 01:11:43,420 --> 01:11:45,920 Well, if you give these passports out, 1582 01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:47,378 on the front page... I've got... 1583 01:11:47,378 --> 01:11:48,920 No, I don't think I have mine with me. 1584 01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:50,920 But in front of the passport it says, 1585 01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:53,045 Her Majesty with the Privy Council... 1586 01:11:53,045 --> 01:11:55,130 You know all this jazz? 1587 01:11:55,130 --> 01:11:56,838 Let the holder have free, er... 1588 01:11:56,838 --> 01:12:00,629 and in school they taught 'em to sing God Save The King 1589 01:12:00,629 --> 01:12:01,504 and God Save The Queen. 1590 01:12:01,504 --> 01:12:04,379 See, the public don't know. They don't know what's... 1591 01:12:04,379 --> 01:12:08,921 You, Mr Lewin, you've been to Harmondsworth. 1592 01:12:08,921 --> 01:12:11,546 You've seen cases of girls locked up. 1593 01:12:11,546 --> 01:12:14,213 Now, I'll ask you. You've been asking me a lot of questions. 1594 01:12:14,213 --> 01:12:18,546 I'll ask you a lot of... I'll ask you just one question. 1595 01:12:18,546 --> 01:12:21,588 Were you surprised at the things you saw? 1596 01:12:21,588 --> 01:12:25,172 (♪ Steel band plays "Rule Britannia") 115666

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