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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:11,189 Wait. 2 00:00:11,224 --> 00:00:13,088 There we go. 3 00:00:15,780 --> 00:00:17,437 Lily, careful there. 4 00:00:17,471 --> 00:00:18,990 Sorry, Grandad. 5 00:00:22,545 --> 00:00:24,478 - Ready? - Yes, ready. 6 00:00:24,513 --> 00:00:25,928 - Okay. - Ready, Lily? 7 00:00:25,962 --> 00:00:27,033 Here I come! 8 00:00:30,415 --> 00:00:31,727 Run! 9 00:00:34,971 --> 00:00:38,216 I can't believe you're still doing that. 10 00:00:49,469 --> 00:00:51,712 Whee! 11 00:01:00,342 --> 00:01:02,792 I'd like to welcome you to this international conference 12 00:01:02,827 --> 00:01:05,519 for climate change, 2009. 13 00:01:05,554 --> 00:01:08,764 It is my great pleasure to welcome our keynote speaker, 14 00:01:08,798 --> 00:01:11,318 who has been a pioneer in climate science 15 00:01:11,353 --> 00:01:13,113 for the last 30 years, 16 00:01:14,252 --> 00:01:16,703 an expert in his field, world-renowned, 17 00:01:17,842 --> 00:01:19,257 and who will address us on his work 18 00:01:19,292 --> 00:01:21,432 on the global instrumental temperature record, 19 00:01:21,466 --> 00:01:23,572 often referred to as a hockey stick graph, 20 00:01:23,606 --> 00:01:25,470 which has been so important in helping us 21 00:01:25,505 --> 00:01:27,127 to understand the cause of change 22 00:01:27,162 --> 00:01:28,991 during the last 1,000 years. 23 00:01:29,025 --> 00:01:32,650 We are honored to welcome Professor Philip Jones. 24 00:01:35,239 --> 00:01:36,412 Go on, then. 25 00:01:55,224 --> 00:01:56,225 Thank you. 26 00:01:59,332 --> 00:02:01,023 Thank you very much. 27 00:02:34,229 --> 00:02:35,758 I'll call you to let you know when I'm back. 28 00:02:35,782 --> 00:02:36,955 You're a star, Dad, thanks. 29 00:02:36,990 --> 00:02:37,990 Right, kid. 30 00:02:41,719 --> 00:02:42,789 Where the hell are you? 31 00:02:42,823 --> 00:02:44,549 The train leaves in two minutes. 32 00:02:44,584 --> 00:02:45,584 Shit. 33 00:02:46,758 --> 00:02:47,758 Sorry. 34 00:02:48,726 --> 00:02:50,150 - I had to sort out the kids. - Right. 35 00:02:51,522 --> 00:02:54,456 Let's see what level of a shit storm we've got here. 36 00:02:54,490 --> 00:02:56,803 The University of East Anglia's Climategate 37 00:02:56,837 --> 00:02:58,114 email controversy. 38 00:02:58,149 --> 00:02:59,806 - Climategate. - Climategate. 39 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:01,359 The Climategate scandal. 40 00:03:01,394 --> 00:03:04,051 Scientists are using words like trick. 41 00:03:04,086 --> 00:03:05,639 Climategate they're calling it, 42 00:03:05,674 --> 00:03:07,745 a new scandal over global warming 43 00:03:07,779 --> 00:03:09,367 and it's burning up the internet. 44 00:03:09,402 --> 00:03:12,267 Have the books been cooked on climate change? 45 00:03:12,301 --> 00:03:16,305 At worst it's junk science and it is a part of a massive, 46 00:03:16,340 --> 00:03:18,721 international, scientific fraud. 47 00:03:21,862 --> 00:03:24,417 It's a communications consultancy. 48 00:03:24,451 --> 00:03:25,832 Crisis management. 49 00:03:25,866 --> 00:03:28,283 Neil Wallis, ex-editor of a Sunday tabloid 50 00:03:28,317 --> 00:03:29,801 and his colleague Sam Bowen. 51 00:03:29,836 --> 00:03:33,115 Sam's background is more corporate public relations. 52 00:03:33,149 --> 00:03:34,910 Can we trust them? 53 00:03:34,944 --> 00:03:36,152 I think we have to. 54 00:03:37,430 --> 00:03:38,741 We're running out of time. 55 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:41,537 They're accusing him of fraud, Ruth. 56 00:03:42,711 --> 00:03:43,711 How is Phil? 57 00:03:48,406 --> 00:03:50,995 You haven't seen a select committee hearing? 58 00:03:51,029 --> 00:03:52,376 No. 59 00:03:52,410 --> 00:03:53,791 It's no walk in the park. 60 00:03:54,930 --> 00:03:56,287 Eight people right there in front of you 61 00:03:56,311 --> 00:03:57,898 and trying to put you on a skewer. 62 00:03:58,968 --> 00:04:00,142 Right. 63 00:04:00,176 --> 00:04:02,351 It's the House of Commons, the government. 64 00:04:02,386 --> 00:04:05,181 An all-out vindication and this Professor Philip Jones 65 00:04:05,216 --> 00:04:07,563 and the rest of them have got half a chance. 66 00:04:08,944 --> 00:04:10,290 The slightest whiff 67 00:04:10,325 --> 00:04:11,750 of a rap across the knuckles and they're screwed. 68 00:04:11,774 --> 00:04:13,535 So we've got one shot at it? 69 00:04:13,569 --> 00:04:14,605 To clear their names? 70 00:04:18,850 --> 00:04:20,542 And three weeks to do it. 71 00:04:23,096 --> 00:04:25,340 Skulduggery, scientific espionage 72 00:04:25,374 --> 00:04:26,789 and black propaganda. 73 00:04:26,824 --> 00:04:29,102 Have scientists really been manipulating the data? 74 00:04:33,451 --> 00:04:35,626 They claim to be victims of a crime, right? 75 00:04:35,660 --> 00:04:36,903 They are. 76 00:04:36,937 --> 00:04:38,939 From the off everyone is all over their arses 77 00:04:38,974 --> 00:04:40,769 like they're the criminals. 78 00:04:40,803 --> 00:04:43,944 Even the tree-huggers, the environment correspondents. 79 00:04:43,979 --> 00:04:45,981 We need institutions independent 80 00:04:46,015 --> 00:04:48,224 of them declaring their innocence. 81 00:04:48,259 --> 00:04:50,261 I suppose they don't know, do they? 82 00:04:50,296 --> 00:04:51,780 What? 83 00:04:51,814 --> 00:04:53,920 If they are innocent or if Jones did rig the data 84 00:04:53,954 --> 00:04:56,094 to exaggerate the increase in temperatures? 85 00:04:57,441 --> 00:05:00,651 Exactly, everyone is terrified they're guilty as charged. 86 00:05:01,962 --> 00:05:03,412 Maybe they're right to be. 87 00:05:04,827 --> 00:05:07,692 Tonight faces forensic examination. 88 00:05:07,727 --> 00:05:09,315 The temperature graphs at the heart 89 00:05:09,349 --> 00:05:11,109 of concern of about climate change 90 00:05:11,144 --> 00:05:13,802 will now be picked over by experts. 91 00:05:33,511 --> 00:05:36,065 Edward Acton, Vice-Chancellor. 92 00:05:36,100 --> 00:05:37,377 Neil Wallis, Sam Bowen. 93 00:05:37,412 --> 00:05:38,585 Pleased to meet you. 94 00:05:38,620 --> 00:05:40,356 This is my co-Vice-Chancellor, Trevor Davies. 95 00:05:40,380 --> 00:05:41,588 Trevor. 96 00:05:41,623 --> 00:05:43,431 Former director of the Climatic Research Unit, 97 00:05:44,073 --> 00:05:45,281 also known as CRU. 98 00:05:53,428 --> 00:05:54,498 Three months ago. 99 00:05:56,016 --> 00:05:57,880 When you were hacked? 100 00:05:57,915 --> 00:05:59,330 No. 101 00:05:59,365 --> 00:06:01,712 The hacking itself was some months before. 102 00:06:01,746 --> 00:06:02,885 We only became aware of it 103 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,061 when the hacker uploaded the file to... 104 00:06:06,095 --> 00:06:08,339 - What was it called again? - Realclimate.org. 105 00:06:09,685 --> 00:06:11,825 The university learned about it the following day. 106 00:06:13,689 --> 00:06:14,689 And you, Phil. 107 00:06:15,691 --> 00:06:17,175 Is that when you found out? 108 00:06:27,254 --> 00:06:28,254 I... 109 00:06:30,982 --> 00:06:32,777 Yes, that's when we found out too. 110 00:06:34,089 --> 00:06:35,711 And what was your response 111 00:06:35,746 --> 00:06:37,368 once you knew there'd been a hack? 112 00:06:37,403 --> 00:06:38,852 We informed the police 113 00:06:38,887 --> 00:06:40,854 and told them there had been an IT system breach. 114 00:06:40,889 --> 00:06:42,097 A data theft. 115 00:06:43,236 --> 00:06:45,134 I think that's the phrase that was used. 116 00:06:56,422 --> 00:06:57,630 Goodnight. 117 00:06:57,664 --> 00:06:58,664 Goodnight. 118 00:07:03,118 --> 00:07:05,189 Thank you, Stella. 119 00:07:05,223 --> 00:07:06,432 You're very welcome. 120 00:07:06,466 --> 00:07:09,227 These are the press office documents 121 00:07:09,262 --> 00:07:12,472 and I've had made this for you, it's the broadcast coverage. 122 00:07:12,507 --> 00:07:13,818 Good. 123 00:07:13,853 --> 00:07:15,958 We'll take a look at that tonight. 124 00:07:15,993 --> 00:07:17,132 Isn't it rather late? 125 00:07:18,513 --> 00:07:20,998 The House of Commons hearing, it's in three weeks, right? 126 00:07:21,032 --> 00:07:22,620 Yes. 127 00:07:22,655 --> 00:07:23,863 The clock is ticking, Edward, 128 00:07:23,897 --> 00:07:26,521 so yeah, we'll be working tonight. 129 00:07:26,555 --> 00:07:27,660 I see, good. 130 00:07:29,178 --> 00:07:30,178 Good. 131 00:07:34,701 --> 00:07:36,254 Jesus, they weren't joking. 132 00:07:37,463 --> 00:07:38,463 He's broken. 133 00:07:39,257 --> 00:07:40,257 Yep. 134 00:07:41,743 --> 00:07:42,743 Do you think he...? 135 00:07:43,572 --> 00:07:44,572 He did it? 136 00:07:46,057 --> 00:07:49,095 You'd expect him to be a bit more pissed off, wouldn't you? 137 00:07:49,129 --> 00:07:50,337 If he was innocent. 138 00:07:52,270 --> 00:07:54,307 Are you sure I'm the right person for this? 139 00:07:54,341 --> 00:07:55,515 I do corporate. 140 00:07:55,550 --> 00:07:56,550 Branding. 141 00:07:57,275 --> 00:07:58,829 Which means you know digital. 142 00:08:00,244 --> 00:08:01,487 Look, whatever. 143 00:08:01,521 --> 00:08:03,558 We're here now, aren't we? 144 00:08:03,592 --> 00:08:07,389 Getting paid to get this lot out of a hole, guilty or not. 145 00:08:35,624 --> 00:08:37,764 Okay, thanks for coming, everyone. 146 00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:38,799 Thank you. 147 00:08:40,249 --> 00:08:41,699 Let's start with the headlines. 148 00:08:42,838 --> 00:08:44,771 Two days ago the Safer Neighborhoods team 149 00:08:44,806 --> 00:08:47,740 logged a data theft from a backup server 150 00:08:47,774 --> 00:08:52,054 at the University's Climatic Research Unit, known as CRU. 151 00:08:52,089 --> 00:08:55,023 Safer Neighborhoods flagged the call to Special Branch 152 00:08:55,057 --> 00:08:57,715 and last night Gold Command, on my recommendation, 153 00:08:57,750 --> 00:09:02,168 initiated Operation Cabin as a major investigation. 154 00:09:02,202 --> 00:09:06,931 The contents of the file appears to be around 1,000 emails 155 00:09:06,966 --> 00:09:09,416 and other documents written over a 10-year period 156 00:09:09,451 --> 00:09:12,419 by staff at CRU, mostly by its current director, 157 00:09:12,454 --> 00:09:16,044 Professor Philip Jones, world-renowned climate scientist. 158 00:09:17,148 --> 00:09:19,565 Gareth here is from Kinetic, 159 00:09:19,599 --> 00:09:22,498 a defense contractor specializing in cyber security. 160 00:09:22,533 --> 00:09:26,157 His team will lead on the digital investigation, 161 00:09:26,192 --> 00:09:30,403 reporting directly to me as senior investigating officer. 162 00:09:30,437 --> 00:09:32,025 The other two lines of inquiry, 163 00:09:33,199 --> 00:09:36,443 physical breach of CRU or an internal leak, 164 00:09:36,478 --> 00:09:39,377 will be overseen by Gold group. 165 00:09:40,827 --> 00:09:44,900 This is a Category A investigation, 166 00:09:44,935 --> 00:09:48,110 so we can hopefully expect some additional support 167 00:09:48,145 --> 00:09:51,355 from national counter-terrorism Scotland Yard. 168 00:09:52,356 --> 00:09:53,150 Yes. 169 00:09:53,184 --> 00:09:54,254 The Cat A status, 170 00:09:55,393 --> 00:09:58,120 sorry, boss, but who's been murdered? 171 00:09:58,155 --> 00:09:59,846 No-one, DS Suppiah. 172 00:10:01,330 --> 00:10:02,791 So the only crime that we're invest... 173 00:10:02,815 --> 00:10:04,955 The breach of the Computer Misuse Act, section one, 174 00:10:04,989 --> 00:10:08,821 and, depending what we turn up, maybe section two. 175 00:10:08,855 --> 00:10:12,687 Regardless, this is still a Cat A investigation, 176 00:10:12,721 --> 00:10:16,138 and I would appreciate it if it were treated as such. 177 00:10:17,346 --> 00:10:18,910 Right, if there aren't any more questions, 178 00:10:18,934 --> 00:10:20,315 you know the drill. 179 00:10:20,349 --> 00:10:22,179 Any pissed-off employees, office politics, 180 00:10:22,213 --> 00:10:24,388 financial vulnerability 181 00:10:24,422 --> 00:10:26,701 who had access, what was the IT set-up, 182 00:10:26,735 --> 00:10:30,532 any hint of a motivation, I wanna hear about it. 183 00:10:30,566 --> 00:10:31,566 Thank you. 184 00:10:32,223 --> 00:10:33,811 DS Suppiah, a word. 185 00:10:41,336 --> 00:10:43,131 I appreciate this might just be a staff member 186 00:10:43,165 --> 00:10:44,339 with an axe to grind, 187 00:10:44,373 --> 00:10:46,099 or some hacker winning a pissing contest, 188 00:10:46,134 --> 00:10:50,345 but if it isn't, look at the timing, join the dots. 189 00:10:50,379 --> 00:10:54,660 Three weeks before COP15, the UN Climate Conference. 190 00:10:54,694 --> 00:10:56,120 Think about it, if this is someone trying 191 00:10:56,144 --> 00:10:58,940 to influence the global response to climate change, 192 00:10:58,974 --> 00:11:02,081 well, then, I'd say maybe Cat A isn't high enough. 193 00:11:47,057 --> 00:11:49,404 The stolen emails are mostly conversations 194 00:11:49,438 --> 00:11:53,649 between colleagues, climate scientists, here and in the US. 195 00:11:53,684 --> 00:11:55,479 And these conversations, 196 00:11:55,513 --> 00:11:56,722 they've been taken wholesale? 197 00:11:56,756 --> 00:11:58,724 No, because whoever compiled this file, 198 00:11:58,758 --> 00:12:00,115 they knew what they were looking for. 199 00:12:00,139 --> 00:12:01,968 These emails had been selected, 200 00:12:02,003 --> 00:12:04,384 probably using a word search for certain phrases. 201 00:12:04,419 --> 00:12:06,352 The first place a link is posted along 202 00:12:06,386 --> 00:12:09,700 with this comment here, "a miracle has happened," 203 00:12:09,735 --> 00:12:12,082 is climateaudit.org. 204 00:12:12,116 --> 00:12:16,949 It's a climate skeptic blog run by this man, Steve McIntyre. 205 00:12:18,157 --> 00:12:19,675 He's receiving the link, he's not? 206 00:12:19,710 --> 00:12:21,608 He's not sending it? 207 00:12:21,643 --> 00:12:24,819 Yeah, but he's got history with Jones. 208 00:12:26,199 --> 00:12:29,962 Mclntyre is a Canadian ex-mining consultant turned 209 00:12:29,996 --> 00:12:32,861 self-appointed climate science fact checker. 210 00:12:32,896 --> 00:12:34,380 If you look at his blog posts 211 00:12:34,414 --> 00:12:36,865 and the comment streams of his website, and the emails, 212 00:12:36,900 --> 00:12:38,902 it reveals that there is an established relationship 213 00:12:38,936 --> 00:12:40,144 with Jones. 214 00:12:40,179 --> 00:12:43,630 And it seems as far back as 2002, 215 00:12:43,665 --> 00:12:45,494 he's been asking Jones for his data. 216 00:12:46,426 --> 00:12:48,014 Which Jones gave him? 217 00:12:49,015 --> 00:12:51,397 Yeah, initially. 218 00:12:51,431 --> 00:12:54,365 But then, McIntyre started using it to criticize Jones, 219 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,817 to undermine his career, Jones backed off. 220 00:12:57,852 --> 00:13:00,509 Mclntyre, well, he got frustrated. 221 00:13:01,856 --> 00:13:04,893 Earlier this year, he persuaded his entire database 222 00:13:04,928 --> 00:13:07,413 to send freedom of information requests to CRU, 223 00:13:07,447 --> 00:13:08,621 asking for their raw data. 224 00:13:08,655 --> 00:13:11,417 - Which they did. - Yeah. 225 00:13:11,451 --> 00:13:15,904 Jones was flooded, and I mean flooded, with requests. 226 00:13:16,871 --> 00:13:18,976 60 in one week, look. 227 00:13:19,011 --> 00:13:20,736 It's a bloody tsunami. 228 00:13:20,771 --> 00:13:22,255 Annoying, but not illegal. 229 00:13:22,290 --> 00:13:23,785 Yes, but that's where it gets interesting. 230 00:13:23,809 --> 00:13:27,191 Our initial analysis of the hard drives and servers suggests 231 00:13:27,226 --> 00:13:28,848 that the unit was hacked several times 232 00:13:28,883 --> 00:13:30,401 between that same time period. 233 00:13:30,436 --> 00:13:31,896 Are you saying there was more than one breach? 234 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:33,542 Not only that. 235 00:13:33,577 --> 00:13:36,925 Mclntyre's requests were formally refused by the university. 236 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:41,274 And four days later, a file of stolen materials goes live. 237 00:13:42,724 --> 00:13:45,727 I have not falsified any data! 238 00:13:52,665 --> 00:13:53,665 Collusion? 239 00:13:56,807 --> 00:13:58,429 They can't argue with the facts. 240 00:13:58,464 --> 00:14:00,604 But that's what they do all the time! 241 00:14:04,263 --> 00:14:05,989 Do you really think this is them? 242 00:14:06,023 --> 00:14:08,370 Well, of course it's them! 243 00:14:30,082 --> 00:14:31,082 I'm sorry. 244 00:14:33,257 --> 00:14:35,777 I haven't done anything wrong, Ruth. 245 00:14:43,819 --> 00:14:46,270 Are you suggesting that McIntyre was responsible? 246 00:14:46,305 --> 00:14:47,651 No. 247 00:14:47,685 --> 00:14:49,618 It was a relatively sophisticated attack, 248 00:14:49,653 --> 00:14:51,206 he wouldn't have the capability. 249 00:14:51,241 --> 00:14:52,690 But there was a coordination. 250 00:14:52,725 --> 00:14:54,461 More likely someone else with a vested interest 251 00:14:54,485 --> 00:14:56,763 in tracking his disputes with CRU. 252 00:14:56,798 --> 00:14:58,696 Yeah, you should also speak to this guy. 253 00:14:58,731 --> 00:15:00,526 This is Steve Mosher. 254 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,631 He's an established lukewarmer. 255 00:15:02,666 --> 00:15:04,702 He doesn't believe that climate change is as serious 256 00:15:04,737 --> 00:15:05,945 as everyone's making out. 257 00:15:06,842 --> 00:15:08,396 When the emails came out, 258 00:15:08,430 --> 00:15:10,881 he was in charge of finding the extracts 259 00:15:10,916 --> 00:15:12,434 before they were taken down. 260 00:15:13,642 --> 00:15:16,231 "I've just completed Mike's nature trick," 261 00:15:17,508 --> 00:15:19,096 "to hide the decline. 262 00:15:20,132 --> 00:15:21,616 Cheers, Phil." 263 00:15:21,650 --> 00:15:24,101 And these are the extracts that are penetrating now? 264 00:15:24,136 --> 00:15:25,033 Yeah. 265 00:15:25,068 --> 00:15:27,139 It's a very effective selection. 266 00:15:27,173 --> 00:15:29,003 Mosher knew exactly what he was doing. 267 00:15:38,702 --> 00:15:40,231 Have your comms team got Phil's comment 268 00:15:40,255 --> 00:15:41,532 on why he used the word trick? 269 00:15:41,567 --> 00:15:42,844 Already on the website, 270 00:15:42,878 --> 00:15:45,019 along with an acknowledgement of the hack. 271 00:15:45,053 --> 00:15:46,882 Look, I think we should do more, 272 00:15:46,917 --> 00:15:48,056 defend the science. 273 00:15:48,091 --> 00:15:49,540 We'd be inviting an attack. 274 00:15:49,575 --> 00:15:50,862 I'm telling you, there's an established history. 275 00:15:50,886 --> 00:15:52,302 It's a bunch of bloggers, Trevor. 276 00:15:52,336 --> 00:15:53,589 Just let them burn the story out amongst themselves. 277 00:15:53,613 --> 00:15:55,167 There was a piece in the Guardian, 278 00:15:55,201 --> 00:15:56,409 and surely, it's quite. 279 00:15:56,444 --> 00:15:57,939 Our defense would only raise more questions, 280 00:15:57,963 --> 00:15:59,481 give the story oxygen. 281 00:15:59,516 --> 00:16:01,311 We don't want the science questioned, either. 282 00:16:01,345 --> 00:16:02,795 Look. 283 00:16:02,829 --> 00:16:04,048 If we can get through the weekend 284 00:16:04,072 --> 00:16:05,222 without the "Today" program calling us, 285 00:16:05,246 --> 00:16:07,248 I really think we'll be fine, okay? 286 00:16:08,974 --> 00:16:10,113 25 to eight. 287 00:16:10,147 --> 00:16:12,425 Those who are on the skeptic side have seized 288 00:16:12,460 --> 00:16:13,979 on these emails. 289 00:16:14,013 --> 00:16:16,291 One of those skeptics is Lord Lawson, the former Chancellor, 290 00:16:16,326 --> 00:16:17,579 whose book, "An Appeal To Reason." 291 00:16:17,603 --> 00:16:19,018 On the face of it, 292 00:16:19,053 --> 00:16:22,297 it looks as if the raw data were being manipulated 293 00:16:22,332 --> 00:16:24,990 in order to prove what they wanted to prove, 294 00:16:25,024 --> 00:16:28,890 that they were refusing to allow other scientists 295 00:16:28,924 --> 00:16:30,857 outside access to the raw data, 296 00:16:30,892 --> 00:16:34,861 that they were talking about destroying various files 297 00:16:34,896 --> 00:16:37,002 in order to prevent data being revealed 298 00:16:37,036 --> 00:16:38,831 through the Freedom of Information Act. 299 00:16:38,865 --> 00:16:40,729 Now, these are very, very serious things. 300 00:16:40,764 --> 00:16:42,697 It may be that there is an innocent explanation 301 00:16:42,731 --> 00:16:45,320 for all this, but what is absolutely clear, 302 00:16:45,355 --> 00:16:46,701 because this is the basis 303 00:16:46,735 --> 00:16:48,979 on which policy decisions are being made, 304 00:16:49,014 --> 00:16:50,291 to some extent, by the government, 305 00:16:50,325 --> 00:16:51,809 and by governments around the world, 306 00:16:51,844 --> 00:16:54,847 it has also tarnished very badly 307 00:16:54,881 --> 00:16:57,263 the international reputation of British science. 308 00:16:57,298 --> 00:16:58,298 They'll need... 309 00:17:03,407 --> 00:17:05,168 It's just, we really need some clarity, 310 00:17:05,202 --> 00:17:07,032 especially on why some of the temperature data 311 00:17:07,066 --> 00:17:08,723 can't be released to the public. 312 00:17:10,794 --> 00:17:11,794 Shell. 313 00:17:28,122 --> 00:17:31,884 "Dear Phil Jones, you should kill yourself. 314 00:17:31,918 --> 00:17:33,644 You lying prick, arsehole. 315 00:17:33,679 --> 00:17:36,854 And if you don't, I'll be more than happy to do it for you 316 00:17:36,889 --> 00:17:37,889 and your family." 317 00:17:38,649 --> 00:17:39,926 Oh, God. 318 00:17:39,961 --> 00:17:40,961 That's terrible. 319 00:17:42,205 --> 00:17:43,861 We'll inform the police. 320 00:17:46,312 --> 00:17:49,557 Look, Ruth, if he does come round a bit, would you mind. 321 00:17:51,041 --> 00:17:53,147 He's the only one who knows the truth about the emails, 322 00:17:53,181 --> 00:17:55,563 - the temperature. - I know, believe me, I know. 323 00:17:58,704 --> 00:18:01,016 Even his voice has changed, Trevor. 324 00:18:02,846 --> 00:18:04,296 Like it's stuck in his throat. 325 00:18:36,259 --> 00:18:39,331 Are you and Grandad coming to my school play, Granny? 326 00:18:39,365 --> 00:18:41,022 Of course, sweetheart. 327 00:18:41,056 --> 00:18:44,991 It might just be Granny this time. 328 00:18:45,026 --> 00:18:46,131 Okay. 329 00:18:46,165 --> 00:18:47,165 Okay. 330 00:18:48,547 --> 00:18:49,720 - Bye. - Bye. 331 00:18:50,894 --> 00:18:53,448 Bye, Granny, see you soon, bye. 332 00:19:00,731 --> 00:19:02,699 These are the most damaging extracts. 333 00:19:04,149 --> 00:19:06,944 Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith? 334 00:19:06,979 --> 00:19:08,256 Keith will do likewise. 335 00:19:09,395 --> 00:19:12,295 "We're choosing the periods to show warming." 336 00:19:12,329 --> 00:19:14,573 I've just completed Mike's nature trick, 337 00:19:15,401 --> 00:19:16,506 "to hide the decline." 338 00:19:17,886 --> 00:19:18,898 The press inquiries haven't stopped all morning, 339 00:19:18,922 --> 00:19:19,992 it's unprecedented. 340 00:19:21,027 --> 00:19:22,246 Like nothing anyone's seen before. 341 00:19:22,270 --> 00:19:23,937 - And from the US now to. - What is it they want, 342 00:19:23,961 --> 00:19:25,963 - specifically? - Phil. 343 00:19:25,998 --> 00:19:28,069 The extracts are mostly from his emails. 344 00:19:28,103 --> 00:19:29,588 And he's the director of CRU. 345 00:19:29,622 --> 00:19:31,007 They wanna know why all of CRU's data 346 00:19:31,037 --> 00:19:31,935 isn't available as well. 347 00:19:31,969 --> 00:19:33,971 But in terms of people, Phil. 348 00:19:34,006 --> 00:19:35,214 No one else. 349 00:19:35,249 --> 00:19:37,251 I'm afraid that's not gonna be possible. 350 00:19:37,285 --> 00:19:38,217 Well, surely you don't stand 351 00:19:38,252 --> 00:19:39,529 by his comments on the website? 352 00:19:39,563 --> 00:19:41,151 - Yeah. - Why isn't Phil available? 353 00:19:41,186 --> 00:19:43,188 It would be the clearest way to set things straight. 354 00:19:43,222 --> 00:19:44,222 I agree. 355 00:19:45,811 --> 00:19:46,995 I went round there this morning 356 00:19:47,019 --> 00:19:48,365 after the Lawson interview. 357 00:19:50,402 --> 00:19:51,610 The man's struggling. 358 00:19:54,475 --> 00:19:57,271 30 years ago, do you remember, 359 00:19:57,305 --> 00:20:00,446 you had that offer of work in California? 360 00:20:00,481 --> 00:20:01,965 And we came here to talk about it, 361 00:20:01,999 --> 00:20:03,553 about the kids moving school. 362 00:20:05,796 --> 00:20:06,901 What it would all mean. 363 00:20:08,799 --> 00:20:10,870 And you got so excited. 364 00:20:13,183 --> 00:20:14,874 Not about going, but about staying. 365 00:20:17,877 --> 00:20:19,672 About what that meant. 366 00:20:24,367 --> 00:20:25,678 Do you remember? 367 00:20:28,233 --> 00:20:30,821 Philip, if I can remember, I know you do. 368 00:20:33,168 --> 00:20:35,723 "It's going to be important," that's what you said. 369 00:20:37,207 --> 00:20:39,658 Politicians were just starting to talk about global warming, 370 00:20:39,692 --> 00:20:44,387 and you said that when they finally came to act on it, 371 00:20:44,421 --> 00:20:46,665 they'd need data they could trust. 372 00:20:46,699 --> 00:20:50,289 They'd need evidence, and that you, CRU, 373 00:20:50,324 --> 00:20:52,015 would be able to give it to them. 374 00:20:52,878 --> 00:20:54,673 Well, that time is now, Philip. 375 00:20:56,778 --> 00:20:57,814 And you were right. 376 00:20:59,919 --> 00:21:02,819 They do need your evidence. 377 00:21:05,856 --> 00:21:09,343 Which is why we can't let these bastards destroy 378 00:21:09,377 --> 00:21:10,377 all you've done. 379 00:21:12,346 --> 00:21:14,865 It's too important. 380 00:21:19,732 --> 00:21:21,424 You're too important. 381 00:21:27,809 --> 00:21:31,123 "I've found what I can do, Ruth." 382 00:21:32,469 --> 00:21:34,229 That's what you said. 383 00:21:36,577 --> 00:21:38,924 "And the place I can do it." 384 00:21:48,727 --> 00:21:51,177 God, and I so wanted to go to California! 385 00:21:52,627 --> 00:21:53,835 Did you? 386 00:21:53,870 --> 00:21:54,870 Yeah! 387 00:22:05,330 --> 00:22:07,677 You're going to have to speak up, Philip. 388 00:22:10,231 --> 00:22:11,405 We'll issue a press statement 389 00:22:11,439 --> 00:22:12,958 with Phil's comment from the website. 390 00:22:12,992 --> 00:22:15,039 And let's see if he'll do a press Association interview, 391 00:22:15,063 --> 00:22:15,857 at least. 392 00:22:15,892 --> 00:22:17,376 Just print, no TV. 393 00:22:17,411 --> 00:22:21,242 Let's announce an independent inquiry into the allegations 394 00:22:21,276 --> 00:22:23,313 and into the actions of our staff. 395 00:22:23,348 --> 00:22:25,764 If there has been malpractice, 396 00:22:25,798 --> 00:22:28,663 we must show we're keen as mustard to investigate. 397 00:22:28,698 --> 00:22:29,975 And we need support, too. 398 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:33,080 Public support. 399 00:22:34,911 --> 00:22:36,395 Thanks, Chris. 400 00:22:36,430 --> 00:22:40,468 Any help in releasing the data is hugely appreciated. 401 00:22:41,676 --> 00:22:42,574 We were wondering if your department 402 00:22:42,608 --> 00:22:43,782 could give a statement to. 403 00:22:43,816 --> 00:22:45,300 I'll see what I can do. 404 00:22:45,335 --> 00:22:47,095 We really need help on this one, Chris. 405 00:22:47,130 --> 00:22:48,487 Trevor, sorry, look, I've got to go. 406 00:22:48,511 --> 00:22:50,823 Sir David, have you seen the CRU fallout? 407 00:22:51,686 --> 00:22:53,308 Christ, haven't I? 408 00:22:53,343 --> 00:22:54,734 What the bloody hell were they thinking about? 409 00:22:54,758 --> 00:22:57,209 I mean, I wouldn't accept such loose practices 410 00:22:57,243 --> 00:22:58,313 from my students. 411 00:22:58,348 --> 00:23:00,039 Well, siege mentality. 412 00:23:00,074 --> 00:23:01,776 I mean, the deniers have had them in their sights 413 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:03,905 - for as long as I can remember. - That is precisely 414 00:23:03,940 --> 00:23:05,079 when you have to be careful, 415 00:23:05,113 --> 00:23:06,632 when you think you're in a battle. 416 00:23:06,667 --> 00:23:08,369 I mean, not to put the data in the public domain. 417 00:23:08,393 --> 00:23:11,050 Well, to be fair, Sir David, it isn't theirs to give. 418 00:23:11,085 --> 00:23:12,327 What do you mean? 419 00:23:12,362 --> 00:23:13,709 Well, CRU built its models on data 420 00:23:13,743 --> 00:23:15,469 from meteorological services. 421 00:23:15,503 --> 00:23:16,849 And sometimes, that data comes 422 00:23:16,884 --> 00:23:18,403 with nondisclosure agreements. 423 00:23:20,163 --> 00:23:23,028 Sir David King, School of Enterprise and the Environment, 424 00:23:23,062 --> 00:23:24,062 Oxford University. 425 00:23:26,514 --> 00:23:27,998 Thanks very much. 426 00:23:28,033 --> 00:23:31,070 I've been on the phone all morning to the Met Office, 427 00:23:31,105 --> 00:23:32,634 putting pressure on them to give clearance 428 00:23:32,658 --> 00:23:33,901 to release all the data. 429 00:23:33,935 --> 00:23:35,937 - And? - Not yet. 430 00:23:37,422 --> 00:23:39,838 Any news about the hack? 431 00:23:39,872 --> 00:23:40,977 Nothing I've heard. 432 00:23:41,011 --> 00:23:41,978 Any thoughts? 433 00:23:42,012 --> 00:23:43,497 Well, take your pick. 434 00:23:43,531 --> 00:23:45,302 Could be the Russians, the Saudis, the oil companies, 435 00:23:45,326 --> 00:23:47,121 anybody who's got money in the game. 436 00:23:47,155 --> 00:23:49,468 But you know, it's clever, 437 00:23:49,503 --> 00:23:51,608 going after the data behind the modeling. 438 00:23:52,989 --> 00:23:55,267 I don't understand why everyone expects science models 439 00:23:55,301 --> 00:23:56,820 to be perfect. 440 00:23:56,855 --> 00:23:59,305 I mean, no one ever goes after economic models, do they? 441 00:23:59,340 --> 00:24:00,490 No, that's because nobody's trying 442 00:24:00,514 --> 00:24:02,308 to undermine the economics. 443 00:24:03,862 --> 00:24:06,381 Do you really think it will affect the COP in Copenhagen? 444 00:24:06,416 --> 00:24:08,591 Well, it might scare the horses a bit, 445 00:24:08,625 --> 00:24:12,629 but no, this COP is dead in the water anyway. 446 00:24:12,664 --> 00:24:15,356 - You really think so? - Come on, Chris. 447 00:24:15,390 --> 00:24:18,635 I mean, the USA are not gonna sign up to their commitment 448 00:24:18,670 --> 00:24:20,879 to carbon reductions unless it's voluntary, 449 00:24:20,913 --> 00:24:22,121 and if they won't sign, 450 00:24:22,156 --> 00:24:24,399 then neither will the Chinese or the Russians. 451 00:24:28,024 --> 00:24:29,957 Look, do what you can about getting the Met 452 00:24:29,991 --> 00:24:31,165 to release that data. 453 00:24:32,546 --> 00:24:34,340 It could douse the flames. 454 00:24:35,859 --> 00:24:37,596 Now, the head of a British climate research institute 455 00:24:37,620 --> 00:24:40,554 has stepped aside after leaked emails were said to suggest 456 00:24:40,588 --> 00:24:44,109 that the case for global warming had been exaggerated. 457 00:24:44,143 --> 00:24:46,214 Phil Jones, at the University of East Anglia, 458 00:24:46,249 --> 00:24:47,457 will relinquish his duties 459 00:24:47,492 --> 00:24:49,735 while an independent review is carried out. 460 00:24:49,770 --> 00:24:51,944 Our environment correspondent, David Shukman. 461 00:25:47,690 --> 00:25:48,736 There are more stolen emails. 462 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,072 I'm saying there's a lot more. 463 00:25:51,107 --> 00:25:53,799 - Almost 200,000 in total. - Shit! 464 00:25:53,834 --> 00:25:54,731 200? 465 00:25:54,766 --> 00:25:56,595 So, the really odd thing, 466 00:25:56,630 --> 00:25:58,493 that they left the cache on the server. 467 00:25:58,528 --> 00:26:00,461 Which is almost like they, well. 468 00:26:00,495 --> 00:26:01,611 I guess it's almost like they wanted us to know. 469 00:26:01,635 --> 00:26:03,084 What are you saying? 470 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:04,993 Well, it means that CRU wasn't the only climate unit 471 00:26:05,017 --> 00:26:05,915 that was attacked. 472 00:26:05,949 --> 00:26:07,019 There were more hacks? 473 00:26:07,054 --> 00:26:08,262 Attempts. 474 00:26:08,296 --> 00:26:09,584 CRU was the only successful breach. 475 00:26:09,608 --> 00:26:10,954 What were the other attempts? 476 00:26:10,989 --> 00:26:13,232 Okay, so, persons unknown posing 477 00:26:13,267 --> 00:26:15,614 as network technicians tried to gain access 478 00:26:15,649 --> 00:26:17,029 to climate science offices 479 00:26:17,064 --> 00:26:19,100 at the University of Victoria, British Columbia. 480 00:26:20,274 --> 00:26:21,769 And there were attempts to access the servers 481 00:26:21,793 --> 00:26:24,519 at the Canadian Centre for Climatology and Analysis, 482 00:26:24,554 --> 00:26:27,764 the National Center of Atmospheric Research in Colorado, 483 00:26:27,799 --> 00:26:30,629 and an attempted unauthorized entry to the computer systems 484 00:26:30,664 --> 00:26:33,252 at the State Department Climate Bureau. 485 00:26:33,287 --> 00:26:35,220 And when, when was all this? 486 00:26:35,254 --> 00:26:37,049 This is all in the last 12 months. 487 00:26:40,190 --> 00:26:42,089 You do know he's the victim? 488 00:26:44,091 --> 00:26:46,162 It's his emails that were stolen. 489 00:26:46,196 --> 00:26:48,820 It's him that's being dragged through the papers. 490 00:26:48,854 --> 00:26:50,349 Why aren't you going after who did this? 491 00:26:50,373 --> 00:26:52,030 I realize this must be upsetting. 492 00:26:52,064 --> 00:26:53,514 No one's getting the truth. 493 00:26:54,653 --> 00:26:56,966 Just what they read, what they hear. 494 00:26:59,762 --> 00:27:01,246 Where are you going? 495 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:02,696 Just down to the station. 496 00:27:02,730 --> 00:27:04,007 - We just. - Why? 497 00:27:04,905 --> 00:27:05,837 We need to print the statement 498 00:27:05,871 --> 00:27:06,803 and have it signed immediately. 499 00:27:06,838 --> 00:27:08,667 Well, use our bloody printer! 500 00:27:08,702 --> 00:27:10,220 Ruth, it's fine. 501 00:27:10,255 --> 00:27:11,877 We'll be 30 minutes, I promise. 502 00:27:19,402 --> 00:27:21,093 This hockey stick graph, 503 00:27:21,128 --> 00:27:22,716 the one that you mention in the interview, 504 00:27:23,958 --> 00:27:25,511 why is it so important exactly? 505 00:27:25,546 --> 00:27:28,963 Well, it's a reconstruction of global temperature, 506 00:27:30,620 --> 00:27:34,555 a window into the past, I suppose, back 1,000 years. 507 00:27:44,910 --> 00:27:47,154 All these are decades here. 508 00:27:49,190 --> 00:27:51,917 That is the handle of the stick. 509 00:27:51,952 --> 00:27:54,402 And here, in the 19th century, 510 00:27:54,437 --> 00:27:56,853 when industrialization takes off, 511 00:27:57,854 --> 00:28:01,651 up until now, that's the blade, 512 00:28:01,686 --> 00:28:05,068 when temperatures increase dramatically. 513 00:28:05,103 --> 00:28:06,691 This is your work? 514 00:28:06,725 --> 00:28:08,244 Well, I contributed. 515 00:28:09,452 --> 00:28:12,489 CRU was the first unit to be dedicated 516 00:28:12,524 --> 00:28:15,216 to the subject of climate change. 517 00:28:15,251 --> 00:28:17,149 We devoted more time than anyone else 518 00:28:17,184 --> 00:28:21,464 to gather the temperature data. 519 00:28:21,498 --> 00:28:26,365 It's not just from across the world, but from across time. 520 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:27,400 Wow. 521 00:28:28,782 --> 00:28:32,233 From before we had thermometer readings, 522 00:28:33,787 --> 00:28:37,238 historical, records, ships' logs. 523 00:28:38,481 --> 00:28:40,655 And then even further back, 524 00:28:40,690 --> 00:28:44,349 proxy data, such as tree rings 525 00:28:44,383 --> 00:28:46,144 - and ice cores. - I saw the tree rings 526 00:28:46,178 --> 00:28:47,835 on the walls of your office. 527 00:28:47,870 --> 00:28:49,388 They're beautiful. 528 00:28:50,804 --> 00:28:53,738 Well, all of that, 529 00:28:53,772 --> 00:28:57,431 the proxy and historical data goes into the graph. 530 00:28:59,191 --> 00:29:02,194 It helps make the past 531 00:29:03,989 --> 00:29:04,989 readable. 532 00:29:11,652 --> 00:29:12,757 Best get you home, yeah. 533 00:29:15,829 --> 00:29:17,175 Thank you. 534 00:29:21,420 --> 00:29:23,422 Who's doing this, Trevor? 535 00:29:23,457 --> 00:29:24,872 Who knows? 536 00:29:24,907 --> 00:29:27,668 Plenty of vested interests would like Copenhagen to fail. 537 00:29:27,702 --> 00:29:29,635 I know why they're doing it to us, though. 538 00:29:30,809 --> 00:29:32,052 The hockey stick graph. 539 00:29:34,261 --> 00:29:35,997 The one showing the rise in global temperatures? 540 00:29:36,021 --> 00:29:38,886 Yeah, CRU's work has been keystone to that graph. 541 00:29:38,921 --> 00:29:42,683 I mean, it was meant to be the final word in the debate. 542 00:29:42,717 --> 00:29:44,029 The science behind it is complex, 543 00:29:44,064 --> 00:29:46,445 though the way it conveys it is simple, 544 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,275 it cuts through the noise. 545 00:29:48,309 --> 00:29:50,691 That's what the skeptics don't like. 546 00:29:50,725 --> 00:29:52,727 Ever since it was published, they've known, 547 00:29:52,762 --> 00:29:55,213 if they're to keep the debate going, 548 00:29:55,247 --> 00:29:58,250 they have to cast doubt on the hockey stick. 549 00:29:58,285 --> 00:29:59,217 Crafty buggers. 550 00:29:59,251 --> 00:30:00,251 Sorry. 551 00:30:00,977 --> 00:30:02,599 That was a long one. 552 00:30:02,634 --> 00:30:04,498 Must have done over 20 interviews now. 553 00:30:05,844 --> 00:30:08,674 It's like speaking into a storm. 554 00:30:08,709 --> 00:30:10,090 No one can hear us. 555 00:30:11,194 --> 00:30:12,194 Or wants to. 556 00:30:13,300 --> 00:30:15,889 We're being drowned out by a sigh of relief. 557 00:30:15,923 --> 00:30:17,269 Relief? 558 00:30:17,304 --> 00:30:19,237 Well, imagine if you woke up tomorrow 559 00:30:19,271 --> 00:30:22,033 to be told you don't have to worry about climate change. 560 00:30:23,482 --> 00:30:26,727 Millions of dollars have gone into the denial campaigns. 561 00:30:26,761 --> 00:30:28,222 And most of it to achieve exactly this, 562 00:30:28,246 --> 00:30:30,489 to make the science seem uncertain. 563 00:30:31,905 --> 00:30:33,872 It's been going on for years, 564 00:30:33,907 --> 00:30:35,253 ever since we first started talking 565 00:30:35,287 --> 00:30:37,393 about actually doing something about global warming. 566 00:30:37,427 --> 00:30:38,808 Which was when, exactly? 567 00:30:39,740 --> 00:30:40,845 Oh, late '80s. 568 00:30:42,018 --> 00:30:46,160 So those campaigns essentially, 569 00:30:46,195 --> 00:30:48,473 they bought themselves time with those millions. 570 00:30:48,507 --> 00:30:51,752 They've had decades to prepare a receptive environment. 571 00:30:52,926 --> 00:30:54,306 Whoever hacked into us, 572 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,862 all they had to do was release those emails 573 00:30:57,896 --> 00:31:01,935 in the right places and sit back and watch. 574 00:31:01,969 --> 00:31:04,316 They've had 20 years to prepare for this. 575 00:31:04,351 --> 00:31:05,524 We've had days. 576 00:31:05,559 --> 00:31:07,388 We need crisis management advice. 577 00:31:08,976 --> 00:31:10,978 It's a straight choice. 578 00:31:11,013 --> 00:31:12,911 Duck it or fight it. 579 00:31:12,946 --> 00:31:15,776 But how do we fight it if the world wants Phil 580 00:31:15,810 --> 00:31:18,675 and the data and we can't provide either. 581 00:31:18,710 --> 00:31:20,712 Okay, well, if Phil can't do the interviews, 582 00:31:20,746 --> 00:31:22,024 then you have to. 583 00:31:23,197 --> 00:31:24,819 What about the independent inquiry? 584 00:31:26,580 --> 00:31:28,409 No one gets hacked for the sake of it. 585 00:31:28,444 --> 00:31:29,824 There's always intent. 586 00:31:30,964 --> 00:31:32,655 The UN Climate Conference, the COP, 587 00:31:32,689 --> 00:31:34,036 it opens next week, right? 588 00:31:34,070 --> 00:31:35,485 Yes. 589 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:37,073 So, it's a strategy. 590 00:31:37,108 --> 00:31:39,144 Someone's decided to take positive action to. 591 00:31:39,179 --> 00:31:41,629 We don't actually know if that's the case. 592 00:31:41,664 --> 00:31:43,424 Nothing's a coincidence. 593 00:31:43,459 --> 00:31:45,357 Sow doubt where there's certainty, 594 00:31:45,392 --> 00:31:48,050 apply a minor inconsistency to the entire evidence, 595 00:31:48,084 --> 00:31:51,260 discredit a group of people, muddy the debate, 596 00:31:51,294 --> 00:31:54,608 all to achieve policy outcry. 597 00:31:54,642 --> 00:31:55,642 It's hardly new. 598 00:31:56,955 --> 00:31:58,450 Straight out of the tobacco companies' playbook 599 00:31:58,474 --> 00:32:01,166 when they were stalling for time on cigarettes and cancer. 600 00:32:01,201 --> 00:32:02,650 Mm. 601 00:32:02,685 --> 00:32:04,825 Other interest groups have used the same strategies 602 00:32:04,859 --> 00:32:07,966 around pesticides, the ozone hole, acid rain. 603 00:32:08,001 --> 00:32:10,796 It's not like we haven't seen these tactics before. 604 00:32:10,831 --> 00:32:11,831 No. 605 00:32:13,109 --> 00:32:15,146 Never with the internet. 606 00:32:15,180 --> 00:32:16,181 The blocks. 607 00:32:17,596 --> 00:32:18,839 Yeah, that is new. 608 00:32:18,873 --> 00:32:20,668 I'll admit there's no playbook for that. 609 00:32:25,846 --> 00:32:26,846 Look. 610 00:32:28,435 --> 00:32:30,126 This isn't gonna be easy. 611 00:32:31,714 --> 00:32:36,063 For a start, you're a white, middle-aged, posh man. 612 00:32:37,409 --> 00:32:38,697 It's gonna be hard for you to go on TV 613 00:32:38,721 --> 00:32:40,240 and come across as likable. 614 00:32:41,551 --> 00:32:42,551 Yes. 615 00:32:43,346 --> 00:32:44,416 Yes, I see. 616 00:32:46,349 --> 00:32:47,557 It's your only choice. 617 00:32:49,111 --> 00:32:50,111 Do nothing now, 618 00:32:51,630 --> 00:32:53,908 that's as good as being guilty. 619 00:33:01,468 --> 00:33:02,676 Now, it's hard to believe 620 00:33:02,710 --> 00:33:04,816 that some emails written on a university campus 621 00:33:04,850 --> 00:33:06,991 in Norwich could be quite so damaging. 622 00:33:07,025 --> 00:33:09,994 Today, Saudi Arabia's chief climate change negotiator, 623 00:33:10,028 --> 00:33:12,617 no less, said the leaked emails from scientists 624 00:33:12,651 --> 00:33:14,067 at the Climate Research Unit 625 00:33:14,101 --> 00:33:17,277 at the University of East Anglia will have a huge impact 626 00:33:17,311 --> 00:33:19,900 on next week's Copenhagen summit, even as it's... 627 00:33:25,975 --> 00:33:27,321 You shouldn't be watching that. 628 00:33:27,356 --> 00:33:28,150 Why not? 629 00:33:28,184 --> 00:33:29,184 It's what I've done. 630 00:33:31,429 --> 00:33:32,671 That's not true. 631 00:33:36,848 --> 00:33:40,369 They've finally found a way to get me, Ruth. 632 00:33:42,405 --> 00:33:43,648 And they'll, well, 633 00:33:45,650 --> 00:33:49,999 pull at this thread until it all unravels! 634 00:33:54,210 --> 00:33:57,489 - They've won, Ruth. - No, they haven't! 635 00:33:59,457 --> 00:34:01,355 They know the truth is out there now. 636 00:34:02,839 --> 00:34:06,395 So all they can do is try to find ways of delaying 637 00:34:06,429 --> 00:34:08,397 how soon it reaches everyone. 638 00:34:08,431 --> 00:34:11,124 That's not the actions of people who've won. 639 00:34:11,158 --> 00:34:16,163 Philip, that's the desperation of people who've lost. 640 00:34:19,546 --> 00:34:21,065 You're forgetting something. 641 00:34:22,514 --> 00:34:23,514 What? 642 00:34:27,174 --> 00:34:30,419 Not everyone wants the truth to reach them. 643 00:35:03,831 --> 00:35:05,039 So, what do you think? 644 00:35:06,248 --> 00:35:07,697 I think they're screwed. 645 00:35:23,851 --> 00:35:26,613 The blogs I get and the American right wing networks, 646 00:35:26,647 --> 00:35:28,994 but the mainstream media following their lead. 647 00:35:29,029 --> 00:35:30,479 The BBC, for Christ's sake! 648 00:35:30,513 --> 00:35:32,412 Which is why we need to get him out there. 649 00:35:33,378 --> 00:35:34,586 Phil? 650 00:35:34,621 --> 00:35:36,899 We need to put a human face on this, 651 00:35:36,933 --> 00:35:38,728 before the House of Commons hearing. 652 00:35:39,729 --> 00:35:41,179 Get the public back on our side. 653 00:35:41,214 --> 00:35:42,422 He could barely talk. 654 00:35:42,456 --> 00:35:44,665 Which is why it has to be print. 655 00:35:44,700 --> 00:35:45,701 No TV. 656 00:35:46,702 --> 00:35:48,152 You're serious? 657 00:35:48,186 --> 00:35:49,463 We'll have to coach him. 658 00:35:50,740 --> 00:35:52,432 "Sunday Times," front page. 659 00:35:53,398 --> 00:35:54,813 Do you think they'll take it? 660 00:35:54,848 --> 00:35:56,332 They'll love it! 661 00:35:57,540 --> 00:35:59,473 It's what they've been baying for, isn't it? 662 00:35:59,508 --> 00:36:01,579 The man at the heart of it. 663 00:36:01,613 --> 00:36:04,168 Edward tried his best, but no one wanted to know. 664 00:36:05,307 --> 00:36:07,516 So we throw them to the lions. 665 00:36:07,550 --> 00:36:09,345 With a couple of lion tamers in the room. 666 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,315 But yeah, if it means we're the ones feeding them for a bit. 667 00:36:13,349 --> 00:36:14,661 That's exactly what we do. 668 00:36:15,765 --> 00:36:17,215 No time for anything else. 669 00:36:18,423 --> 00:36:19,504 Not with that House of Commons committee 670 00:36:19,528 --> 00:36:21,357 breathing down our necks. 671 00:36:23,256 --> 00:36:25,085 We'll coach him here. 672 00:36:25,119 --> 00:36:26,119 Today. 673 00:36:28,364 --> 00:36:30,211 - Are you sure this is the right? - I'm positive. 674 00:36:33,266 --> 00:36:35,026 Unless you wanna cut him loose. 675 00:36:35,060 --> 00:36:36,165 Out of the question. 676 00:36:39,444 --> 00:36:40,583 Well, I had to check. 677 00:36:41,929 --> 00:36:44,622 Because if it's the reputation of the university 678 00:36:44,656 --> 00:36:46,486 - you're trying to save here. - It isn't. 679 00:36:48,350 --> 00:36:50,214 - It isn't? - Well, yes, it is, 680 00:36:51,318 --> 00:36:53,182 but that's no longer the priority. 681 00:36:53,217 --> 00:36:55,322 This is about more than the university now. 682 00:36:56,220 --> 00:36:57,359 Much more. 683 00:36:57,393 --> 00:36:58,393 The science? 684 00:36:59,775 --> 00:37:02,640 - The truth. - Right. 685 00:37:02,674 --> 00:37:04,228 That's what's at stake here. 686 00:37:06,126 --> 00:37:10,199 And who gets to tell the truth, or not, 687 00:37:10,234 --> 00:37:13,375 about something that affects every living thing 688 00:37:13,409 --> 00:37:14,409 on the planet. 689 00:37:24,213 --> 00:37:25,213 Mea culpa. 690 00:37:26,422 --> 00:37:28,631 That's what you open with, before anything else. 691 00:37:28,666 --> 00:37:30,046 I'll brief the journalists to ask 692 00:37:30,081 --> 00:37:31,427 about the data stuff first, 693 00:37:31,462 --> 00:37:33,153 the Freedom of Information request. 694 00:37:33,187 --> 00:37:34,948 When he does, you put your hands up. 695 00:37:34,982 --> 00:37:36,260 Admit you got it wrong. 696 00:37:36,294 --> 00:37:38,641 But those requests, they weren't genuine. 697 00:37:38,676 --> 00:37:40,194 - Yes, we know. - The data was already. 698 00:37:40,229 --> 00:37:42,438 But admitting that you got frustrated, 699 00:37:42,473 --> 00:37:43,922 you could have handled it better, 700 00:37:43,957 --> 00:37:45,199 - that's very relatable. - Yeah. 701 00:37:45,234 --> 00:37:46,763 Getting pissed off with a bunch of time wasters 702 00:37:46,787 --> 00:37:48,858 who wanna prove you wrong, there's no shame in that. 703 00:37:48,893 --> 00:37:50,101 No data was destroyed. 704 00:37:50,135 --> 00:37:51,689 And that's exactly what you'll say, 705 00:37:51,723 --> 00:37:54,450 after you've acknowledged what you could have done better. 706 00:37:54,485 --> 00:37:57,039 You say it then and people will listen. 707 00:37:57,073 --> 00:37:58,212 It'll sound true. 708 00:38:03,148 --> 00:38:04,148 It is true. 709 00:38:05,461 --> 00:38:08,671 But I need to believe you when you say it is. 710 00:38:09,879 --> 00:38:11,398 That's all that matters. 711 00:38:16,507 --> 00:38:18,854 Right, so, we take a little bit of this 712 00:38:18,888 --> 00:38:19,993 and pop it in here. 713 00:38:20,027 --> 00:38:21,615 And then, if you take your finger 714 00:38:21,650 --> 00:38:23,410 and poke a nice hole in there. 715 00:38:23,445 --> 00:38:24,687 That's it. 716 00:38:24,722 --> 00:38:26,620 And then, what do you think you do? 717 00:38:26,655 --> 00:38:29,036 - Put an acorn in? - Yes, just the one. 718 00:38:34,248 --> 00:38:35,836 - There. - Maybe a little bit more. 719 00:38:41,255 --> 00:38:45,259 So, a trick is just a clever way of doing something. 720 00:38:45,294 --> 00:38:47,779 In statistical modeling, yes, or in maths, 721 00:38:47,814 --> 00:38:50,782 - a short cut. - It still sounds suspect. 722 00:38:50,817 --> 00:38:52,266 A trick of the trade? 723 00:38:52,301 --> 00:38:53,440 - A technique? - If you like, 724 00:38:53,475 --> 00:38:55,856 - a solution to a problem. - But nothing more? 725 00:38:55,891 --> 00:38:57,271 No. 726 00:38:57,306 --> 00:38:58,790 Good. 727 00:38:58,825 --> 00:39:01,137 But then, we get to hide the decline. 728 00:39:02,587 --> 00:39:05,107 Sent everyone through the roof, this one, hasn't it? 729 00:39:05,141 --> 00:39:07,868 Sarah Palin, the US networks, the papers. 730 00:39:08,869 --> 00:39:09,905 What's your defense? 731 00:39:11,113 --> 00:39:12,539 Because it had better be a bloody good one. 732 00:39:12,563 --> 00:39:15,289 In as few words as possible, simple and short. 733 00:39:15,324 --> 00:39:16,843 And in a way I'll believe it. 734 00:39:21,779 --> 00:39:23,090 It's about tree rings. 735 00:39:24,229 --> 00:39:25,023 What? 736 00:39:25,058 --> 00:39:26,266 Well, the decline. 737 00:39:27,923 --> 00:39:29,614 It isn't about temperatures. 738 00:39:29,649 --> 00:39:30,649 Go on. 739 00:39:33,963 --> 00:39:38,002 To predict the future, we've got to understand the past. 740 00:39:38,036 --> 00:39:40,625 - Hubert Lamb's. - I'm not interested. 741 00:39:40,660 --> 00:39:41,660 Try again. 742 00:39:45,458 --> 00:39:46,458 Go on, Phil. 743 00:39:49,358 --> 00:39:53,189 Temperature records consist of two kinds of measurements. 744 00:39:53,224 --> 00:39:55,295 From around the mid 19th century, 745 00:39:55,329 --> 00:39:57,677 we have actual instrument recordings. 746 00:39:57,711 --> 00:39:58,850 Try it as a question. 747 00:40:04,442 --> 00:40:08,515 How do we obtain measurements from further back, 748 00:40:08,550 --> 00:40:11,345 from before we have instrument recordings? 749 00:40:11,380 --> 00:40:14,038 Good, I have no idea, educate me. 750 00:40:14,072 --> 00:40:15,246 How do we? 751 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,697 - We use proxy data. - Sorry, Phil. 752 00:40:17,731 --> 00:40:19,802 How else might you explain proxy? 753 00:40:19,837 --> 00:40:20,837 What is it? 754 00:40:28,501 --> 00:40:30,882 The natural world has a memory. 755 00:40:32,436 --> 00:40:37,026 It can preserve the physical characteristics of the past. 756 00:40:38,165 --> 00:40:39,615 Past temperatures? 757 00:40:39,650 --> 00:40:42,480 Yes and weather events. 758 00:40:42,515 --> 00:40:44,033 What kind of characteristics? 759 00:40:45,483 --> 00:40:48,728 Well, concentrations of oxygen isotopes in ice, 760 00:40:50,143 --> 00:40:53,560 or the composition and annual banding in corals, 761 00:40:53,595 --> 00:40:58,600 or the width and the density of annual tree ring growth. 762 00:40:59,601 --> 00:41:00,601 Tree rings? 763 00:41:02,535 --> 00:41:05,641 Yes, they're wider in a season of good growth, 764 00:41:05,676 --> 00:41:08,264 when it's warmer, and narrower in a season 765 00:41:08,299 --> 00:41:10,681 of restricted growth, when it's colder. 766 00:41:10,715 --> 00:41:14,098 So, you add this stuff, natural characteristics, 767 00:41:14,132 --> 00:41:16,618 to the instrument measurements and you get a record 768 00:41:16,652 --> 00:41:19,966 of temperatures stretching back in time before thermometers? 769 00:41:21,485 --> 00:41:22,934 It isn't quite that simple. 770 00:41:22,969 --> 00:41:24,902 Put simply, though, is Neil right? 771 00:41:26,317 --> 00:41:27,317 Well, yes. 772 00:41:28,526 --> 00:41:31,771 So, what's being hidden, then, in the paper, 773 00:41:31,805 --> 00:41:33,497 you were discussing in that email? 774 00:41:34,946 --> 00:41:38,432 I was writing about one diagram, 775 00:41:39,399 --> 00:41:40,814 not a scientific paper. 776 00:41:40,849 --> 00:41:43,023 Phil, split any more hairs and I'll go bald. 777 00:41:46,820 --> 00:41:48,546 It's okay, Phil. 778 00:41:48,581 --> 00:41:50,168 Just try to answer the question. 779 00:41:51,238 --> 00:41:52,343 What were you hiding? 780 00:42:06,012 --> 00:42:08,497 This is the diagram. 781 00:42:11,293 --> 00:42:13,226 The blue line is the hockey stick, 782 00:42:13,260 --> 00:42:15,366 the red line is my own similar reconstructions 783 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,162 and the green line was produced 784 00:42:18,196 --> 00:42:22,304 by my colleague, Keith Briffa, using tree ring density data. 785 00:42:23,443 --> 00:42:25,928 Keith's data produced similar results 786 00:42:25,963 --> 00:42:29,449 to my own reconstruction, 787 00:42:29,483 --> 00:42:31,555 until 1960, 788 00:42:31,589 --> 00:42:33,487 when it began to diverge. 789 00:42:34,558 --> 00:42:35,351 Diverge? 790 00:42:35,386 --> 00:42:36,836 What do you mean? 791 00:42:36,870 --> 00:42:41,219 Well, the real temperatures increase sharply after 1960. 792 00:42:42,427 --> 00:42:45,361 But the tree rings got narrower, less dense, 793 00:42:45,396 --> 00:42:49,918 as if the temperature was decreasing, getting colder. 794 00:42:49,952 --> 00:42:51,091 Why would they do that? 795 00:42:51,126 --> 00:42:52,437 Well, we're not sure. 796 00:42:53,749 --> 00:42:56,649 Acid rain, or the depletion in the ozone layer, 797 00:42:56,683 --> 00:43:00,584 but whatever the cause, the tree ring data 798 00:43:00,618 --> 00:43:03,725 becomes unreliable after 1960. 799 00:43:03,759 --> 00:43:05,761 But if it's unreliable then, 800 00:43:05,796 --> 00:43:07,729 how do we know it was any good before? 801 00:43:07,763 --> 00:43:12,630 Its match to previous instrument readings were strong 802 00:43:12,665 --> 00:43:14,459 and universal all through the 19th 803 00:43:14,494 --> 00:43:17,221 and 20th century until 1960. 804 00:43:17,255 --> 00:43:19,223 But on the graph, there's no divergence? 805 00:43:19,257 --> 00:43:21,777 Yes, and 806 00:43:21,812 --> 00:43:25,091 I knew that the data became unreliable, 807 00:43:25,125 --> 00:43:30,027 so I included only the real temperatures in the green line. 808 00:43:31,787 --> 00:43:33,168 To hide the decline. 809 00:43:35,308 --> 00:43:37,241 In tree ring density. 810 00:43:37,275 --> 00:43:38,587 But not the temperature? 811 00:43:40,693 --> 00:43:44,006 Well, there was no decline in temperature to hide. 812 00:43:45,421 --> 00:43:48,770 Every thermometer in the world will say the opposite. 813 00:43:51,117 --> 00:43:54,430 The temperatures were rising all through that period. 814 00:43:58,814 --> 00:43:59,884 And they still are. 815 00:44:08,824 --> 00:44:09,824 Jesus! 816 00:44:11,724 --> 00:44:13,829 They really screwed you over, didn't they? 817 00:44:52,419 --> 00:44:53,766 Both down? 818 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:54,800 Flat out. 819 00:44:59,564 --> 00:45:03,499 So, how's he doing, your scientist? 820 00:45:03,534 --> 00:45:05,018 Not too great, to be honest. 821 00:45:10,127 --> 00:45:12,025 And who do you think did this to him? 822 00:45:13,199 --> 00:45:14,199 The hack? 823 00:45:15,615 --> 00:45:16,615 Who knows? 824 00:45:17,721 --> 00:45:18,870 But whoever's behind what's happened 825 00:45:18,894 --> 00:45:20,102 since knows their stuff. 826 00:45:21,828 --> 00:45:23,761 I mean, a few months ago, 827 00:45:23,796 --> 00:45:25,556 there was consensus on global warming. 828 00:45:25,590 --> 00:45:28,007 Now, headlines across the world. 829 00:45:30,803 --> 00:45:32,943 Could have all just happened? 830 00:45:32,977 --> 00:45:35,739 Might not be anyone behind it at all. 831 00:45:36,843 --> 00:45:38,845 Some big players have had plans for ages. 832 00:45:40,536 --> 00:45:42,159 Oil companies, especially. 833 00:45:43,885 --> 00:45:46,404 They all want to stop the science getting out there. 834 00:45:49,683 --> 00:45:50,857 What's so crazy is 835 00:45:50,892 --> 00:45:53,066 they knew more about it before anyone else. 836 00:45:54,896 --> 00:45:57,277 All through the '80s, they had the best climate scientists, 837 00:45:57,312 --> 00:45:58,520 scenario planners. 838 00:46:00,246 --> 00:46:04,284 And these guys, they're telling them, the CEOs, the boards, 839 00:46:04,319 --> 00:46:06,286 increasing CO2 in the atmosphere, 840 00:46:06,321 --> 00:46:10,325 it's going to be a major problem for the whole world. 841 00:46:11,705 --> 00:46:14,881 Extreme weather, food shortages, mass migrations. 842 00:46:15,882 --> 00:46:17,021 So what did they do? 843 00:46:23,510 --> 00:46:24,339 I can't believe I'm saying this, 844 00:46:24,373 --> 00:46:29,102 but they took all that, 845 00:46:29,137 --> 00:46:32,796 all that knowledge, which they had more of, in more detail, 846 00:46:32,830 --> 00:46:34,659 and earlier than anyone else, and. 847 00:46:36,489 --> 00:46:39,872 Well, they used it to get ahead of the curve, 848 00:46:39,906 --> 00:46:42,944 to come up with strategies to keep the public uncertain, 849 00:46:42,978 --> 00:46:44,290 unconcerned. 850 00:46:44,324 --> 00:46:45,360 What kind of strategies? 851 00:46:45,394 --> 00:46:48,156 Front organizations, mostly. 852 00:46:48,190 --> 00:46:50,572 Produce alternative research that backed their message 853 00:46:50,606 --> 00:46:51,987 and then pushed it to the media. 854 00:46:52,022 --> 00:46:54,818 Ah, PR then. 855 00:46:54,852 --> 00:46:55,852 Marketing. 856 00:46:57,441 --> 00:46:58,580 Like what you do. 857 00:47:00,271 --> 00:47:01,271 No, Dad. 858 00:47:02,722 --> 00:47:05,138 At least with what I do, you know who's pitching to you. 859 00:47:07,623 --> 00:47:09,729 When I read the projections about what could happen 860 00:47:09,763 --> 00:47:11,006 if we don't do anything 861 00:47:13,906 --> 00:47:16,115 and when I see those dates, 2040 to 2050. 862 00:47:18,082 --> 00:47:20,395 I can't help thinking how old the girls will be. 863 00:47:21,845 --> 00:47:23,294 What their lives will be like. 864 00:47:25,779 --> 00:47:27,816 How do you know all this? 865 00:47:27,851 --> 00:47:29,024 There's a paper trail. 866 00:47:30,681 --> 00:47:32,338 If you know where to look. 867 00:47:32,372 --> 00:47:34,754 You think it's the oil companies, then, stole the emails? 868 00:47:35,686 --> 00:47:37,032 Jesus, I don't know, Dad. 869 00:47:38,723 --> 00:47:39,723 It's the internet. 870 00:47:40,898 --> 00:47:43,521 A dark place, filled with darker places. 871 00:47:45,454 --> 00:47:47,318 I just hope we're doing the right thing. 872 00:47:48,561 --> 00:47:49,942 Why wouldn't you be? 873 00:47:51,391 --> 00:47:55,775 This isn't a flagship store, some new trainers. 874 00:47:57,604 --> 00:47:58,640 If we get this wrong, 875 00:48:02,540 --> 00:48:03,714 it's game over for him. 876 00:48:42,684 --> 00:48:44,928 Give Lily a birthday kiss from me. 877 00:48:46,205 --> 00:48:47,206 Of course. 878 00:49:00,426 --> 00:49:01,841 I'm so sorry, Ruth. 879 00:49:10,712 --> 00:49:12,369 You just call me when it's done 880 00:49:15,372 --> 00:49:16,373 with that journalist. 881 00:49:54,342 --> 00:49:55,619 Oh, God! 882 00:50:00,313 --> 00:50:01,313 Philip! 883 00:50:03,075 --> 00:50:04,731 - Good morning. - Morning. 884 00:50:04,766 --> 00:50:06,009 Morning. 885 00:50:06,043 --> 00:50:07,562 - How are you? - Good, good, good. 886 00:50:09,598 --> 00:50:10,772 - Are you ready? - Yep. 887 00:50:12,118 --> 00:50:13,050 You're gonna be all right. 888 00:50:13,085 --> 00:50:14,239 I'll introduce you to Richard. 889 00:50:16,295 --> 00:50:17,295 Neil! 890 00:50:21,403 --> 00:50:22,853 Thank you, love. 891 00:50:22,887 --> 00:50:24,924 They've done this before, you know. 892 00:50:26,132 --> 00:50:27,754 - I'm sorry? - Gone after people. 893 00:50:27,789 --> 00:50:28,686 Scientists. 894 00:50:28,721 --> 00:50:29,929 Just for doing their job. 895 00:50:29,963 --> 00:50:31,517 He'll be fine, I promise. 896 00:50:31,551 --> 00:50:32,759 I don't want your promises. 897 00:50:32,794 --> 00:50:34,727 I want to be sure you know what you're doing. 898 00:50:34,761 --> 00:50:36,004 Yes, we do. 899 00:50:36,039 --> 00:50:37,154 I've been in this game a long time. 900 00:50:37,178 --> 00:50:38,627 But it isn't! 901 00:50:38,662 --> 00:50:39,456 Don't you see that? 902 00:50:39,490 --> 00:50:40,388 Not to us. 903 00:50:40,422 --> 00:50:41,906 - I'm sorry. - A game. 904 00:50:43,253 --> 00:50:45,358 - That's not what I meant. - That man in there, 905 00:50:45,393 --> 00:50:47,015 the man you're about to let the press at. 906 00:50:47,050 --> 00:50:48,303 - Yeah. - The press who've dragged him 907 00:50:48,327 --> 00:50:51,088 through the mud for months, he's my husband. 908 00:50:51,123 --> 00:50:52,607 A father, a grandfather, 909 00:50:52,641 --> 00:50:54,402 someone who's tried to spend his whole life 910 00:50:54,436 --> 00:50:56,197 getting closer to the truth. 911 00:50:56,231 --> 00:50:58,302 His work is important. 912 00:50:58,337 --> 00:50:59,855 He is important! 913 00:50:59,890 --> 00:51:01,857 So I bloody well hope you do know what you're doing 914 00:51:01,892 --> 00:51:05,068 because this might be just a job to you, but for us, 915 00:51:05,102 --> 00:51:06,724 we could lose everything! 916 00:51:06,759 --> 00:51:07,553 Do you understand? 917 00:51:07,587 --> 00:51:08,587 Everything! 918 00:51:29,333 --> 00:51:31,301 Do you have any regrets? 919 00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:37,341 Well, I regret that I didn't deal 920 00:51:37,376 --> 00:51:40,275 with the Freedom of Information request in a better way. 921 00:51:41,932 --> 00:51:43,209 I misjudged the situation. 922 00:51:45,315 --> 00:51:46,315 How, exactly? 923 00:51:47,282 --> 00:51:51,010 Well, according to the rules, 924 00:51:51,044 --> 00:51:55,152 we're supposed to do 18 hours of work on each one 925 00:51:55,187 --> 00:51:56,878 before we're allowed to turn it down 926 00:51:56,912 --> 00:52:00,261 and, we received 40 over one weekend, 927 00:52:01,710 --> 00:52:04,506 all requesting the same data from five different countries. 928 00:52:04,541 --> 00:52:05,990 We were being targeted. 929 00:52:06,025 --> 00:52:07,647 You think they wanted to waste your time? 930 00:52:08,855 --> 00:52:11,237 Well, the data was available elsewhere. 931 00:52:11,272 --> 00:52:12,318 They were trying to slow us down, 932 00:52:12,342 --> 00:52:14,033 take us away from our work. 933 00:52:14,067 --> 00:52:16,656 And the messages you sent about deleting the data? 934 00:52:18,486 --> 00:52:19,486 Well, 935 00:52:20,695 --> 00:52:21,523 it wasn't data. 936 00:52:21,558 --> 00:52:23,318 It was emails and, 937 00:52:24,285 --> 00:52:25,838 well, that was 938 00:52:31,637 --> 00:52:32,637 frustration. 939 00:52:34,295 --> 00:52:35,675 They were written in anger. 940 00:52:37,401 --> 00:52:39,265 But you did destroy the data? 941 00:52:40,301 --> 00:52:41,198 No. 942 00:52:41,233 --> 00:52:42,475 It wasn't our data to destroy. 943 00:52:43,890 --> 00:52:47,342 We interpret it, we don't create or collect it. 944 00:52:48,826 --> 00:52:50,449 So when the story broke, 945 00:52:51,898 --> 00:52:53,428 this was all just before the UN Climate Conference 946 00:52:53,452 --> 00:52:55,488 - in Copenhagen, right? - Yes. 947 00:52:56,351 --> 00:52:57,525 Did that worry you? 948 00:52:57,559 --> 00:52:59,182 That your emails might be responsible 949 00:52:59,216 --> 00:53:01,356 for undermining the talks two months ago? 950 00:53:02,564 --> 00:53:04,083 Yes, yes, it did. 951 00:53:04,117 --> 00:53:05,257 An opportunity the world 952 00:53:05,291 --> 00:53:06,741 cannot afford to miss. 953 00:53:06,775 --> 00:53:09,502 The UN Climate Conference gets under way in Copenhagen. 954 00:53:09,537 --> 00:53:10,986 The mood music is positive 955 00:53:11,021 --> 00:53:13,851 and thousands of people have converged on Copenhagen, 956 00:53:13,886 --> 00:53:17,510 hoping that some sort of historic deal might be 957 00:53:17,545 --> 00:53:20,203 within reach, but there are a whole range of really. 958 00:53:20,237 --> 00:53:21,445 Surely, 959 00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:22,905 the CRU emails are going to undermine the talks, 960 00:53:22,929 --> 00:53:24,345 aren't they? 961 00:53:24,379 --> 00:53:27,313 The UN's chief climate scientist has already said as such. 962 00:53:27,348 --> 00:53:30,213 Look, I'm a member of the UK negotiating team. 963 00:53:30,247 --> 00:53:32,974 I know how this process works. 964 00:53:33,008 --> 00:53:35,252 These negotiators are grown ups. 965 00:53:35,287 --> 00:53:36,736 They know their science. 966 00:53:36,771 --> 00:53:40,464 Some fabricated scandal is not gonna affect their opinion. 967 00:53:40,499 --> 00:53:42,742 The Saudi negotiator has already said 968 00:53:42,777 --> 00:53:46,159 the emails question the validity of this conference. 969 00:53:46,194 --> 00:53:48,127 Well, considering he's had breakfast 970 00:53:48,161 --> 00:53:50,163 with a different oil company every morning this week, 971 00:53:50,198 --> 00:53:52,373 I suppose he would, wouldn't he? 972 00:53:52,407 --> 00:53:55,445 Look, these talks might fail, 973 00:53:56,791 --> 00:54:00,001 but it's not gonna be because of some stolen emails. 974 00:54:00,035 --> 00:54:02,417 Any thoughts on who might have stolen the emails? 975 00:54:02,452 --> 00:54:03,729 Well, it seems coordinated, 976 00:54:03,763 --> 00:54:07,388 so it could be an intelligence operation. 977 00:54:07,422 --> 00:54:10,183 The file was loaded on a server in Tomsk. 978 00:54:10,218 --> 00:54:11,495 Do you think this was Russia? 979 00:54:11,530 --> 00:54:12,910 Oh, yes, absolutely. 980 00:54:13,980 --> 00:54:15,637 Well, I have seen first-hand 981 00:54:15,672 --> 00:54:17,915 how active they can be in stifling 982 00:54:17,950 --> 00:54:20,366 the science of global warming, but equally, 983 00:54:20,401 --> 00:54:24,163 it could also be the American oil lobby system. 984 00:54:24,197 --> 00:54:27,200 After all, they are the main source of finance 985 00:54:27,235 --> 00:54:28,374 behind these sort of things. 986 00:54:28,409 --> 00:54:30,997 So you really think whoever did this 987 00:54:31,032 --> 00:54:33,276 wasn't trying to derail the talks? 988 00:54:33,310 --> 00:54:36,313 Was it a coincidence that these emails were released 989 00:54:36,348 --> 00:54:37,763 just before this COP? 990 00:54:37,797 --> 00:54:39,696 Absolutely not! 991 00:54:41,353 --> 00:54:44,356 But it's public opinion they're trying to influence, 992 00:54:44,390 --> 00:54:45,805 not these negotiations. 993 00:54:46,806 --> 00:54:49,361 That's what will affect policy, 994 00:54:49,395 --> 00:54:52,812 so no, this conference is not their target, 995 00:54:53,710 --> 00:54:55,781 but it is their stage. 996 00:54:55,815 --> 00:55:00,820 The hockey stick is shattered beyond repair. 997 00:55:01,683 --> 00:55:03,375 And we're talking about it today 998 00:55:03,409 --> 00:55:04,652 because of Climategate. 999 00:55:04,686 --> 00:55:06,239 It's a huge deal. 1000 00:55:07,171 --> 00:55:09,277 Don't take my word for it. 1001 00:55:09,312 --> 00:55:11,900 Just do an internet search and here's what you find. 1002 00:55:13,074 --> 00:55:15,421 George Monbiot in "The Guardian,". 1003 00:55:16,595 --> 00:55:19,322 "Pretending this is not a real crisis 1004 00:55:20,426 --> 00:55:21,979 isn't going to make it go away. 1005 00:55:22,980 --> 00:55:24,948 "Phil Jones has got to go." 1006 00:55:26,156 --> 00:55:28,779 Christopher Brooker, the UK "Telegraph,". 1007 00:55:28,814 --> 00:55:33,612 "This is the worst scientific scandal of our generation." 1008 00:55:35,545 --> 00:55:38,962 The scientists involved in the CRU controversy 1009 00:55:40,170 --> 00:55:43,173 violated fundamental ethical principles, 1010 00:55:43,207 --> 00:55:45,831 governing taxpayer funded research. 1011 00:55:45,865 --> 00:55:49,628 And in some cases, may have violated federal laws. 1012 00:55:49,662 --> 00:55:50,698 Now, for this reason, 1013 00:55:51,871 --> 00:55:54,805 I am calling for the following key players 1014 00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:58,291 to be investigated with possible referral 1015 00:55:58,326 --> 00:56:01,329 to the US Justice Department for prosecution, 1016 00:56:01,364 --> 00:56:03,573 Phil Jones, Keith Briffa. 1017 00:56:37,123 --> 00:56:41,162 And, some of these messages you received, 1018 00:56:43,371 --> 00:56:44,579 were they death threats? 1019 00:56:45,580 --> 00:56:46,580 Yes. 1020 00:56:49,757 --> 00:56:51,172 And if you don't mind me asking, 1021 00:56:52,725 --> 00:56:54,175 what would they say, exactly? 1022 00:56:57,627 --> 00:56:59,491 Well, that they knew where I lived. 1023 00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:05,082 That I should kill myself. 1024 00:57:08,914 --> 00:57:13,919 And if I didn't, they'd do it for me. 1025 00:57:16,784 --> 00:57:17,784 And did, 1026 00:57:21,858 --> 00:57:23,273 did you ever think about that? 1027 00:57:25,137 --> 00:57:26,137 About suicide? 1028 00:57:32,455 --> 00:57:33,455 Yes. 1029 00:57:35,561 --> 00:57:36,561 Several times. 1030 00:57:40,773 --> 00:57:41,773 And what, 1031 00:57:42,741 --> 00:57:43,983 I know this is difficult. 1032 00:57:46,641 --> 00:57:47,711 But what stopped you? 1033 00:58:00,897 --> 00:58:01,897 Lily. 1034 00:58:03,658 --> 00:58:06,281 Lily. 1035 00:58:42,801 --> 00:58:45,286 Think, Mrs Jones, somewhere he goes regularly to, 1036 00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:48,116 you know, mull over stuff, or to get away from things? 1037 00:58:48,151 --> 00:58:48,945 No. 1038 00:58:48,979 --> 00:58:49,979 No, not without. 1039 00:58:51,775 --> 00:58:52,775 Philip? 1040 00:59:06,963 --> 00:59:09,068 You. 1041 00:59:16,144 --> 00:59:17,905 All right, all right. 1042 00:59:20,079 --> 00:59:22,599 All right, I've got you. 1043 00:59:22,634 --> 00:59:23,738 I've got you. 1044 00:59:28,156 --> 00:59:29,261 How did it go? 1045 00:59:29,295 --> 00:59:30,676 What did you tell them? 1046 00:59:30,711 --> 00:59:32,885 Oh, just everything that we talked about. 1047 00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:34,335 - Good. - And er.. 1048 00:59:38,822 --> 00:59:40,548 And what, Philip? 1049 00:59:40,583 --> 00:59:42,619 Well, and um, 1050 00:59:43,862 --> 00:59:48,867 about when I went, 1051 00:59:49,626 --> 00:59:51,628 when I didn't, you know. 1052 00:59:51,663 --> 00:59:52,595 When's it going out? 1053 00:59:52,629 --> 00:59:53,423 Tomorrow. 1054 00:59:53,457 --> 00:59:54,597 Well, I mean, I can. 1055 00:59:54,631 --> 00:59:55,598 - Nana! - I'm sure they won't use it. 1056 00:59:55,632 --> 00:59:57,945 Do you want me to call Neil? 1057 00:59:59,015 --> 01:00:00,706 - I can tell him that. - I'm going 1058 01:00:00,741 --> 01:00:02,708 - to have to warn Matthew. - Why? 1059 01:00:03,813 --> 01:00:05,262 Ruth, why? 1060 01:00:06,712 --> 01:00:09,059 Because now they'll know you've got a granddaughter. 1061 01:00:09,094 --> 01:00:10,543 Those people. 1062 01:00:10,578 --> 01:00:11,717 They'll know about Lily. 1063 01:00:12,994 --> 01:00:16,101 You call Neil and we'll speak later. 1064 01:00:32,945 --> 01:00:34,947 You didn't ask them to remove the suicide stuff? 1065 01:00:34,982 --> 01:00:36,121 It's the best bit. 1066 01:00:36,155 --> 01:00:38,123 Takes the heat off Phil for a week or two. 1067 01:00:38,157 --> 01:00:39,676 Puts a face to it. 1068 01:00:39,711 --> 01:00:40,919 A life. 1069 01:00:40,953 --> 01:00:43,059 Reminds people he's a person, a grandfather. 1070 01:00:44,267 --> 01:00:45,855 That's what we need before the hearing. 1071 01:01:15,747 --> 01:01:16,575 What about the hack? 1072 01:01:16,609 --> 01:01:17,852 Who did this? 1073 01:01:17,887 --> 01:01:18,819 How did they do it? Why did they do it? 1074 01:01:18,853 --> 01:01:20,199 I mean, where are the interviews 1075 01:01:20,234 --> 01:01:21,901 with the security correspondents, cyber experts? 1076 01:01:21,925 --> 01:01:23,202 Not the story. 1077 01:01:23,237 --> 01:01:24,697 Since when is the crime not the story? 1078 01:01:24,721 --> 01:01:26,452 When what it's achieved is more interesting. 1079 01:01:28,207 --> 01:01:30,209 Have you seen these poll figures from the US, 1080 01:01:30,244 --> 01:01:32,695 conducted in the months after the leak went viral? 1081 01:01:34,248 --> 01:01:36,871 "59% of Americans say scientists 1082 01:01:36,906 --> 01:01:39,598 have falsified research data to support their beliefs 1083 01:01:39,632 --> 01:01:41,013 about global warming. 1084 01:01:41,048 --> 01:01:44,361 Only 26% take the opposite view." 1085 01:01:44,396 --> 01:01:45,984 It's worked, hasn't it? 1086 01:01:46,018 --> 01:01:47,018 Yeah. 1087 01:01:49,781 --> 01:01:51,265 What we need is a proper deflection, 1088 01:01:51,299 --> 01:01:52,991 someone to point the finger at. 1089 01:01:53,025 --> 01:01:56,926 A likely suspect for who did the hack, or who was behind it. 1090 01:01:59,238 --> 01:02:02,517 The hacker gave the emails file names, linked to the date 1091 01:02:02,552 --> 01:02:04,485 and time that the email was sent. 1092 01:02:04,519 --> 01:02:05,935 They must have written a program 1093 01:02:05,969 --> 01:02:08,972 to extract the date and time from the text 1094 01:02:09,007 --> 01:02:12,735 and a tool to convert that to the number of seconds elapsed. 1095 01:02:12,769 --> 01:02:14,944 If the times when the email was sent 1096 01:02:14,978 --> 01:02:16,462 and the time zone on the computer 1097 01:02:16,497 --> 01:02:19,086 the hacker was using to process the emails differed, 1098 01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:21,778 then the file name generated would be incorrect. 1099 01:02:21,813 --> 01:02:22,813 For example, 1100 01:02:23,815 --> 01:02:26,024 an email sent from Greenwich Mean Time 1101 01:02:26,058 --> 01:02:28,681 would give us an error of five hours. 1102 01:02:28,716 --> 01:02:32,133 Now, this five hour mismatch could be later, 1103 01:02:32,168 --> 01:02:36,793 placing the location in this time zone, Russia and Pakistan, 1104 01:02:36,828 --> 01:02:41,073 or earlier, in this location, on the East Coast of America. 1105 01:02:42,109 --> 01:02:45,181 Now, emails from this time zone 1106 01:02:45,215 --> 01:02:46,941 give us an error of zero hours. 1107 01:02:46,976 --> 01:02:50,462 Indicating that's where the emails were processed? 1108 01:02:50,496 --> 01:02:51,566 East Coast of the US? 1109 01:02:51,601 --> 01:02:52,775 Yes. 1110 01:02:52,809 --> 01:02:54,915 Well, that's gonna go down well, isn't it? 1111 01:02:54,949 --> 01:02:56,433 Now, it is possible 1112 01:02:56,468 --> 01:02:59,505 that the hacker reset his computer to avoid detection. 1113 01:03:00,886 --> 01:03:02,957 What's GCHQ's input? 1114 01:03:02,992 --> 01:03:05,511 They confirm the Department of Energy and Climate Change 1115 01:03:05,546 --> 01:03:07,410 has been an intelligence collection target 1116 01:03:07,444 --> 01:03:08,687 for China and Russia, 1117 01:03:08,721 --> 01:03:10,551 but in terms of active state action 1118 01:03:10,585 --> 01:03:12,967 and these kind of tactics, in this area. 1119 01:03:13,002 --> 01:03:14,624 Why do the dirty work yourself, 1120 01:03:14,658 --> 01:03:16,453 if you can pull the strings remotely? 1121 01:03:16,488 --> 01:03:17,488 Smart. 1122 01:03:18,731 --> 01:03:21,355 And if we follow the money, where does that take us? 1123 01:03:21,389 --> 01:03:24,599 Well, Russia does have a huge oil industry. 1124 01:03:24,634 --> 01:03:26,187 And with the melting of the ice caps, 1125 01:03:26,222 --> 01:03:29,397 it is looking to exploit the Arctic, but. 1126 01:03:29,432 --> 01:03:32,331 Yes, if you really want to follow the money, 1127 01:03:32,366 --> 01:03:35,093 it takes us back here, to the US. 1128 01:03:35,127 --> 01:03:36,301 Oil lobbies. 1129 01:03:36,335 --> 01:03:38,096 Exxon, Koch Brothers. 1130 01:03:38,130 --> 01:03:39,925 They're the ones with real skin in the game. 1131 01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:42,479 Someone out there knows who did this. 1132 01:03:42,514 --> 01:03:45,862 Who the gun for hire hacker was and who was paying them. 1133 01:03:45,897 --> 01:03:47,484 How the hell are we meant to find them, 1134 01:03:47,519 --> 01:03:49,555 if the internet makes a joke of the search? 1135 01:04:03,569 --> 01:04:05,226 Okay, let's try again. 1136 01:04:06,918 --> 01:04:07,918 Like this. 1137 01:04:09,092 --> 01:04:10,714 The facts are this. 1138 01:04:12,855 --> 01:04:15,029 The facts are this. 1139 01:04:17,998 --> 01:04:20,932 This is a House of Commons select committee. 1140 01:04:20,966 --> 01:04:22,830 They'll be out for meat. 1141 01:04:22,865 --> 01:04:24,418 You've got to get them on side. 1142 01:04:27,317 --> 01:04:28,974 You do know what's at stake here? 1143 01:04:37,396 --> 01:04:40,158 What I don't get is, this is all you've ever done. 1144 01:04:40,192 --> 01:04:42,988 For the last 30 years, you've stuck it out, 1145 01:04:43,023 --> 01:04:45,025 you've been loyal, whatever. 1146 01:04:45,059 --> 01:04:47,441 This has been your life! 1147 01:04:47,475 --> 01:04:50,133 I mean, don't you care? 1148 01:04:51,652 --> 01:04:52,652 Yes. 1149 01:04:53,447 --> 01:04:54,241 What? 1150 01:04:54,275 --> 01:04:56,519 Yes, I do care! 1151 01:04:59,246 --> 01:05:00,246 Maybe. 1152 01:05:03,043 --> 01:05:04,043 Phil. 1153 01:05:05,355 --> 01:05:06,355 Phil? 1154 01:05:35,868 --> 01:05:37,560 What do you want me not to say? 1155 01:05:42,979 --> 01:05:45,257 I don't want you not to say anything. 1156 01:05:46,776 --> 01:05:48,847 I just want you to tell the truth. 1157 01:05:50,021 --> 01:05:52,264 But in a way that it can be understood. 1158 01:05:52,299 --> 01:05:53,334 Short answers. 1159 01:05:53,369 --> 01:05:54,369 No jargon. 1160 01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:05,864 Why does this all matter? 1161 01:06:05,898 --> 01:06:07,452 What? 1162 01:06:07,486 --> 01:06:08,591 Well. 1163 01:06:08,625 --> 01:06:11,801 Because what they... 1164 01:06:14,942 --> 01:06:17,013 Because it isn't true. 1165 01:06:17,048 --> 01:06:17,980 Right. 1166 01:06:18,014 --> 01:06:19,014 But beyond that? 1167 01:06:20,361 --> 01:06:21,638 What happens if they win? 1168 01:06:23,054 --> 01:06:25,194 What happens if everyone ignores your measurements, 1169 01:06:25,228 --> 01:06:26,228 your graphs? 1170 01:06:29,301 --> 01:06:30,751 Well. 1171 01:06:30,785 --> 01:06:32,270 I suppose we'll just carry on 1172 01:06:32,304 --> 01:06:34,651 emitting more greenhouse gases. 1173 01:06:34,686 --> 01:06:37,171 Global temperatures will continue to increase. 1174 01:06:37,206 --> 01:06:40,105 And if we do that, what actually happens? 1175 01:06:40,140 --> 01:06:42,728 Well, the projection hasn't changed. 1176 01:06:42,763 --> 01:06:43,971 It's still the same. 1177 01:06:44,006 --> 01:06:45,455 The same as what? 1178 01:06:45,490 --> 01:06:49,183 As when US scientists first studied it in the '70s. 1179 01:06:50,909 --> 01:06:51,909 Go on. 1180 01:06:53,325 --> 01:06:55,707 Well, a doubling of CO2 emissions in the atmosphere 1181 01:06:55,741 --> 01:06:59,573 will result in a 1.5 to 4.5 degree increase. 1182 01:07:01,851 --> 01:07:03,542 In what? 1183 01:07:03,577 --> 01:07:05,199 Average surface temperature. 1184 01:07:06,476 --> 01:07:08,582 Polar amplification will mean 1185 01:07:08,616 --> 01:07:10,963 that melting in the poles will be greater. 1186 01:07:12,482 --> 01:07:16,176 Maybe as much as 10 degrees. 1187 01:07:16,210 --> 01:07:17,763 What happens, Phil, 1188 01:07:18,902 --> 01:07:21,871 for our children and their children? 1189 01:07:21,905 --> 01:07:24,494 No numbers, just the consequences. 1190 01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:34,400 Well. 1191 01:07:35,781 --> 01:07:40,234 By 2100, dust bowl conditions 1192 01:07:40,269 --> 01:07:44,480 across North America and Africa, Asia too. 1193 01:07:46,723 --> 01:07:47,724 Sooner than that, 1194 01:07:48,932 --> 01:07:52,419 a massive reduction in agricultural production, 1195 01:07:52,453 --> 01:07:57,079 access to drinking water, migration in huge numbers. 1196 01:08:01,117 --> 01:08:05,880 Bushfires on a massive scale in Australia, 1197 01:08:05,915 --> 01:08:07,261 the West Coast. 1198 01:08:08,814 --> 01:08:11,507 Annual melting at the poles, 1199 01:08:12,404 --> 01:08:14,751 the West Antarctic ice sheet, 1200 01:08:14,786 --> 01:08:16,098 well, because of that, 1201 01:08:17,789 --> 01:08:22,034 the global sea level rise of, well, 1202 01:08:23,381 --> 01:08:24,381 meters. 1203 01:08:25,762 --> 01:08:27,902 But what does that all mean for us? 1204 01:08:27,937 --> 01:08:28,937 People. 1205 01:08:29,697 --> 01:08:30,871 Make me see it, Phil. 1206 01:08:32,079 --> 01:08:35,496 Well, in this worst case scenario, 1207 01:08:37,153 --> 01:08:40,639 70% of the habitable world 1208 01:08:40,674 --> 01:08:43,125 will no longer be able to sustain human life. 1209 01:08:45,886 --> 01:08:48,992 Millions of species will become extinct. 1210 01:08:51,340 --> 01:08:54,032 And coastal and delta cities will be underwater. 1211 01:08:55,689 --> 01:09:00,694 And, well, if the methane in the permafrost 1212 01:09:01,902 --> 01:09:04,387 and on the seabed is released, well. 1213 01:09:06,182 --> 01:09:07,182 Yes? 1214 01:09:10,428 --> 01:09:12,050 The climate will collapse. 1215 01:09:14,915 --> 01:09:19,782 And the world as we know it will be gone. 1216 01:09:33,554 --> 01:09:36,143 Now, we know there are some people out there 1217 01:09:36,178 --> 01:09:38,697 who think everything you've just said is bollocks. 1218 01:09:40,043 --> 01:09:42,529 Maybe even some of the hearing committee, who knows? 1219 01:09:44,703 --> 01:09:46,671 But if you can remember everything you just said 1220 01:09:46,705 --> 01:09:47,948 when you're answering them, 1221 01:09:47,982 --> 01:09:49,881 no matter how dry those answers are, 1222 01:09:52,090 --> 01:09:53,954 then we don't have to worry about it. 1223 01:10:02,376 --> 01:10:03,376 Let's take a break. 1224 01:10:09,728 --> 01:10:10,728 Anything? 1225 01:10:11,937 --> 01:10:14,664 It's the same names cropping up again and again. 1226 01:10:14,699 --> 01:10:17,874 With tobacco in the '70s, acid rain in the '80s, 1227 01:10:17,909 --> 01:10:19,704 and now with global warming. 1228 01:10:19,738 --> 01:10:20,922 It's not just the same strategy, 1229 01:10:20,946 --> 01:10:22,327 it's the same bloody people. 1230 01:10:24,226 --> 01:10:27,574 But all this now with Phil, the emails, it's just. 1231 01:10:28,713 --> 01:10:30,611 The latest battle in a longer war. 1232 01:10:35,133 --> 01:10:36,133 It always is, son. 1233 01:10:38,378 --> 01:10:39,586 You'll come to see that. 1234 01:10:42,589 --> 01:10:43,590 It always is. 1235 01:10:51,218 --> 01:10:52,737 They're gonna tear him apart. 1236 01:10:54,946 --> 01:10:56,775 We've still got a couple more days. 1237 01:10:59,191 --> 01:11:01,055 We'll have to rehearse the hell out of him. 1238 01:11:01,953 --> 01:11:04,749 Choreograph it step by step. 1239 01:11:04,783 --> 01:11:06,174 Royal Ballet will have nothing on us 1240 01:11:06,198 --> 01:11:07,338 by the time we're done. 1241 01:11:20,661 --> 01:11:22,560 So why not release the data? 1242 01:11:22,594 --> 01:11:24,458 Shouldn't everyone get to see it? 1243 01:11:24,493 --> 01:11:26,046 Don't focus on how you feel, 1244 01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:27,772 focus on how you come across. 1245 01:11:27,806 --> 01:11:31,293 How is someone sitting there on the other side seeing you? 1246 01:11:32,673 --> 01:11:34,710 The select committee hearing is your only chance 1247 01:11:34,744 --> 01:11:36,090 to defend yourself. 1248 01:11:36,125 --> 01:11:38,058 So, how is that right, 1249 01:11:38,092 --> 01:11:40,957 to stop other scientists publishing their findings? 1250 01:11:40,992 --> 01:11:42,994 Weren't you just using your position 1251 01:11:43,028 --> 01:11:44,236 to quash other opinions? 1252 01:11:45,824 --> 01:11:50,829 Yes or no, did you ask your colleagues to delete emails? 1253 01:11:51,968 --> 01:11:53,349 There was no manipulation, yup. 1254 01:11:53,384 --> 01:11:55,696 So you've been manipulating the historic records, 1255 01:11:55,731 --> 01:11:56,628 is that right? 1256 01:11:56,663 --> 01:11:58,596 So, there was no manipulation, 1257 01:11:59,804 --> 01:12:03,428 just adjustment in the pursuit of accuracy 1258 01:12:03,463 --> 01:12:06,397 because that's how science works. 1259 01:12:06,431 --> 01:12:09,089 That's how we get to the truth. 1260 01:12:19,133 --> 01:12:20,825 Well done, Phil, well done! 1261 01:12:32,043 --> 01:12:33,458 How are you feeling? 1262 01:12:45,194 --> 01:12:46,747 Just show them who you are. 1263 01:12:47,748 --> 01:12:49,163 - What else can I do? - No, I... 1264 01:12:54,030 --> 01:12:56,067 Do you remember when we first met? 1265 01:12:58,069 --> 01:13:00,796 In the halls of residence? 1266 01:13:00,830 --> 01:13:02,073 I was playing darts 1267 01:13:02,107 --> 01:13:04,593 and your room was on the other side of the wall. 1268 01:13:04,627 --> 01:13:06,422 You came out to ask us to be quiet. 1269 01:13:06,457 --> 01:13:08,424 - It was distracting. - I know. 1270 01:13:13,912 --> 01:13:17,295 The way you asked us, the way you carried yourself. 1271 01:13:18,676 --> 01:13:20,816 I could tell straight away, here was a good man. 1272 01:13:24,958 --> 01:13:25,958 A kind man. 1273 01:13:28,099 --> 01:13:29,411 A man of integrity. 1274 01:13:33,069 --> 01:13:36,314 All the pieces of that man are still here, Philip, 1275 01:13:40,422 --> 01:13:41,630 which means so is he. 1276 01:13:45,910 --> 01:13:47,670 That's who I want you to show them. 1277 01:14:23,430 --> 01:14:25,018 You'll be fine, Phil. 1278 01:14:25,052 --> 01:14:26,157 Watch your shoe. 1279 01:14:30,575 --> 01:14:32,163 Here we are. 1280 01:14:32,197 --> 01:14:34,890 Okay, so, good luck gentlemen. 1281 01:14:34,924 --> 01:14:36,547 You're not coming in? 1282 01:14:36,581 --> 01:14:37,582 Not gonna help your cause 1283 01:14:37,617 --> 01:14:39,342 if the press see me in there. 1284 01:14:39,377 --> 01:14:41,344 - Keep to the brief. - Good luck. 1285 01:14:43,830 --> 01:14:46,246 This is the only day of verbal evidence 1286 01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:47,523 for the select committee 1287 01:14:47,558 --> 01:14:49,974 and they're keen to hear from their star witness, 1288 01:14:50,008 --> 01:14:52,528 the former head of the Climate Research Unit 1289 01:14:52,563 --> 01:14:54,047 at the University of East Anglia, 1290 01:14:54,081 --> 01:14:57,568 and the subject of many of those emails, Phil Jones. 1291 01:14:57,602 --> 01:14:58,914 This is the first time 1292 01:14:58,948 --> 01:15:01,710 he's come under close public scrutiny. 1293 01:15:01,744 --> 01:15:03,815 So, shall we begin, 1294 01:15:03,850 --> 01:15:05,852 Professor Jones, Professor Acton? 1295 01:15:06,956 --> 01:15:08,337 Thank you. 1296 01:15:08,371 --> 01:15:10,512 I do have a general statement I'd like to make. 1297 01:15:10,546 --> 01:15:13,480 No, no general statements, please. 1298 01:15:13,515 --> 01:15:14,723 - Oh, Jesus! - Just answer 1299 01:15:14,757 --> 01:15:16,621 the questions when you're asked them. 1300 01:15:17,795 --> 01:15:19,762 Perhaps I could just go back 1301 01:15:19,797 --> 01:15:23,766 to one of Lord Lawson's earlier comments. 1302 01:15:23,801 --> 01:15:25,112 What did I miss? 1303 01:15:25,147 --> 01:15:28,460 That without an understanding of the methodology, 1304 01:15:28,495 --> 01:15:32,913 that the peer review system is rather defunct? 1305 01:15:35,295 --> 01:15:40,300 Well, the methods are published 1306 01:15:41,163 --> 01:15:42,163 in the scientific papers, 1307 01:15:43,406 --> 01:15:46,548 that relatively simple. 1308 01:15:47,963 --> 01:15:49,896 There's nothing sort of rocket science about them. 1309 01:15:51,449 --> 01:15:52,599 Can you explain your email exchange 1310 01:15:52,623 --> 01:15:55,177 on the 21st of January 2005, 1311 01:15:56,109 --> 01:15:57,766 when you say you aren't going to. 1312 01:15:57,800 --> 01:15:58,905 How are they doing? 1313 01:16:00,113 --> 01:16:01,010 Not bad. 1314 01:16:01,045 --> 01:16:02,564 Find something wrong with it? 1315 01:16:03,841 --> 01:16:06,602 That's the nature of scientific pursuits, isn't it? 1316 01:16:07,983 --> 01:16:10,572 Well, I've obviously written some very awful emails. 1317 01:16:18,269 --> 01:16:19,339 Let's get you home. 1318 01:18:00,751 --> 01:18:02,062 You found him. 1319 01:18:30,366 --> 01:18:32,127 To look at the key works of CRU, 1320 01:18:32,161 --> 01:18:36,648 to reaffirm the sure-fire quality of the science 1321 01:18:36,683 --> 01:18:40,652 and may I end by saying just how proud I am 1322 01:18:40,687 --> 01:18:45,036 of the contribution that UEA and CRU in particular 1323 01:18:45,071 --> 01:18:49,489 has made to humanity's ability 1324 01:18:49,523 --> 01:18:51,871 to understand climate change. 1325 01:18:54,977 --> 01:18:56,772 So, what happens now? 1326 01:18:57,669 --> 01:18:58,669 We wait. 1327 01:19:12,788 --> 01:19:14,307 We wait. 1328 01:19:40,747 --> 01:19:41,921 Ah, Trevor. 1329 01:19:41,955 --> 01:19:42,853 Do you know what time the select committee 1330 01:19:42,887 --> 01:19:44,371 will publish their report? 1331 01:19:44,406 --> 01:19:47,202 Some time in the morning, so they said. 1332 01:19:47,236 --> 01:19:48,236 Right. 1333 01:19:50,999 --> 01:19:54,036 Are you familiar with the Fermi paradox 1334 01:19:55,486 --> 01:19:58,869 the contradiction of lack of evidence for alien life, 1335 01:19:58,903 --> 01:20:03,632 and considering the size and age of the universe, 1336 01:20:04,978 --> 01:20:06,773 the high possibility of its existence? 1337 01:20:06,808 --> 01:20:07,878 Yes, yes. 1338 01:20:07,912 --> 01:20:09,534 - The great science. - Yeah. 1339 01:20:12,054 --> 01:20:13,607 I read a paper yesterday 1340 01:20:14,988 --> 01:20:18,509 that suggested climate change might be the answer. 1341 01:20:20,718 --> 01:20:24,377 There have perhaps been other civilizations, thousands, 1342 01:20:26,172 --> 01:20:28,691 but they all did what we're doing now, 1343 01:20:28,726 --> 01:20:31,798 became more and more advanced and in doing so. 1344 01:20:31,833 --> 01:20:34,559 - Yes, I see. - Burnt themselves out. 1345 01:20:34,594 --> 01:20:35,594 Bright and brief. 1346 01:20:39,150 --> 01:20:41,152 It does make you wonder, doesn't it, 1347 01:20:42,498 --> 01:20:47,296 if all this we're fighting against is, well, 1348 01:20:49,574 --> 01:20:51,300 possibly what we're meant to do? 1349 01:20:52,854 --> 01:20:54,778 I'll admit humanity does have something of a gift 1350 01:20:56,029 --> 01:20:59,515 for normalizing great change, even when it threatens us. 1351 01:21:00,723 --> 01:21:02,794 But we do also have a gift for survival 1352 01:21:04,175 --> 01:21:07,661 against predators, disease, dictators. 1353 01:21:09,180 --> 01:21:11,596 We do somehow survive. 1354 01:21:14,634 --> 01:21:17,844 Even if how we live is the danger? 1355 01:21:19,466 --> 01:21:20,882 You have to hope so, don't you? 1356 01:21:25,196 --> 01:21:26,196 Goodnight, Trevor. 1357 01:21:56,883 --> 01:22:00,300 "The focus on Professor Phil Jones and CRU has been," 1358 01:22:03,234 --> 01:22:04,684 "has been misplaced." 1359 01:22:07,480 --> 01:22:10,897 "Within the inquiry, and the evidence we took, 1360 01:22:10,932 --> 01:22:13,210 the scientific reputation of Professor Jones 1361 01:22:13,244 --> 01:22:15,764 and CRU remains intact. 1362 01:22:15,798 --> 01:22:19,285 We have found no reason in this unfortunate episode 1363 01:22:21,149 --> 01:22:23,254 to challenge the scientific consensus 1364 01:22:23,289 --> 01:22:24,980 that global warming is happening 1365 01:22:25,015 --> 01:22:27,051 and is induced by human activity. 1366 01:22:27,086 --> 01:22:29,364 In so far as we've been able to consider accusations 1367 01:22:29,398 --> 01:22:33,195 of dishonesty, for example, Professor Jones' alleged attempt 1368 01:22:33,230 --> 01:22:36,060 "to hide the decline, we consider there is." 1369 01:22:40,651 --> 01:22:42,515 "There is no case to answer." 1370 01:23:06,194 --> 01:23:11,199 The work done by CRU and have no doubt that for all of us, 1371 01:23:12,372 --> 01:23:14,340 our children and our grandchildren, 1372 01:23:15,513 --> 01:23:20,346 Phil Jones was and is the right man 1373 01:23:21,554 --> 01:23:23,590 in the right place at the right time. 1374 01:23:25,075 --> 01:23:26,075 Phil Jones. 1375 01:23:27,249 --> 01:23:29,182 - Phil Jones. - Phil Jones. 1376 01:23:32,047 --> 01:23:34,636 All the other reports reached the same conclusion. 1377 01:23:35,809 --> 01:23:38,916 There were seven, in total, by the end. 1378 01:23:41,505 --> 01:23:43,783 Even one that no one knew about, 1379 01:23:43,817 --> 01:23:47,442 the United States Environmental Protection Agency? 1380 01:23:49,478 --> 01:23:51,342 A manufactured controversy. 1381 01:23:53,103 --> 01:23:54,449 That's what they called it. 1382 01:23:59,523 --> 01:24:01,076 For us though, it didn't feel like 1383 01:24:01,111 --> 01:24:02,767 we could even begin to move on 1384 01:24:02,802 --> 01:24:06,840 until two years later when this big project 1385 01:24:06,875 --> 01:24:08,911 in California happened. 1386 01:24:08,946 --> 01:24:10,603 Berkeley Earth, it was called, 1387 01:24:10,637 --> 01:24:13,709 set up to prove Philip's work was wrong. 1388 01:24:15,297 --> 01:24:17,541 Anyway, 1389 01:24:17,575 --> 01:24:20,475 they took all the data. 1390 01:24:20,509 --> 01:24:22,166 CRU had used 1391 01:24:22,201 --> 01:24:24,065 and started from scratch. 1392 01:24:26,308 --> 01:24:31,279 With some known skeptics on the team too, even Steve Mosher, 1393 01:24:32,418 --> 01:24:34,351 the man who first picked out those extracts. 1394 01:24:35,490 --> 01:24:38,009 The Trick, Hide the Decline. 1395 01:24:39,149 --> 01:24:40,149 Even him. 1396 01:24:41,599 --> 01:24:43,360 And what do you know? 1397 01:24:46,087 --> 01:24:48,365 Came up with the same results as Philip. 1398 01:24:51,747 --> 01:24:53,439 The same results. 1399 01:25:55,397 --> 01:25:56,397 Phil. 1400 01:25:57,710 --> 01:25:58,711 - It's. - Sam. 1401 01:25:59,953 --> 01:26:01,162 I remember. 1402 01:26:04,717 --> 01:26:05,890 How are you? 1403 01:26:07,927 --> 01:26:09,204 I'm very good. 1404 01:26:09,239 --> 01:26:10,516 - Yes, good, good. - Yeah. 1405 01:26:11,586 --> 01:26:13,035 Oh, this is me. 1406 01:26:15,866 --> 01:26:16,660 Good to see you. 1407 01:26:16,694 --> 01:26:18,524 And you, Sam, yeah. 1408 01:26:18,558 --> 01:26:22,562 - Yeah, take care. - Yeah, and you. 1409 01:26:58,184 --> 01:27:01,222 Everything that happened back then, the hacking, 1410 01:27:02,430 --> 01:27:05,640 other campaigns, it had a significant effect 1411 01:27:05,674 --> 01:27:06,848 on public opinion. 1412 01:27:08,021 --> 01:27:09,471 Cost us between eight to 10 years, 1413 01:27:09,506 --> 01:27:11,266 according to some studies. 1414 01:27:11,301 --> 01:27:14,027 A decade, so, yes, 1415 01:27:14,062 --> 01:27:16,754 we could have had 20 years to sort this out, 1416 01:27:16,789 --> 01:27:19,136 but now, we've only got around 10. 1417 01:27:20,310 --> 01:27:21,310 If that. 1418 01:27:22,795 --> 01:27:25,832 And who's pushing hardest for action? 1419 01:27:25,867 --> 01:27:28,076 The children, people Lily's age, 1420 01:27:28,939 --> 01:27:30,768 which does give me some hope. 1421 01:27:33,875 --> 01:27:35,428 They understand, you see, 1422 01:27:36,740 --> 01:27:37,879 what needs to be done. 1423 01:27:39,398 --> 01:27:40,744 And who knows? 1424 01:27:40,778 --> 01:27:43,436 If it only took one generation to break the planet, 1425 01:27:43,471 --> 01:27:45,438 why can't it take just one to fix it? 1426 01:27:48,476 --> 01:27:50,098 I know we should have more time, 1427 01:27:51,272 --> 01:27:53,204 but at least we do still have time. 1428 01:27:56,622 --> 01:27:57,622 Just. 103681

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