All language subtitles for [SubtitleTools.com] Secrets Of Polygamy S01E06 EDITH

Growing up in the Order,

too many girls my age
that were around me

probably experienced
sexual abuse

in one way or another.

I think it's time
for getting the story out there

to expose the abuse and neglect

that the Order has
put on their followers

and hopefully show the people
who want to leave they can.

I have experienced abuse
on several different levels

growing up in that church
and, and that community,

and you're made to feel
that it's your fault.

The Order's not
gonna get shut down

unless the women stand up.

So you put the
survivors of polygamy

at the same level as survivors
of a prisoner of war camp?

Yes.

My name's Matt Browning.

I'm retired law enforcement
out of Arizona.

I was on both the
Joint Terrorist Task Force

and the Fugitive Task Force
with the FBI.

But most importantly,
I'm a husband and a father.

And I was born
and raised a member

of the Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter-day Saints.

A few years ago,
my wife Tawni and I

were contacted by
women who wanted help

leaving the polygamist groups.

Since then, we've been
contacted numerous times

by people asking for help.

Some of these groups have

a history of incest
and child abuse

and are thriving right here
in the United States.

People need to know about this,
and that's why we do what we do.

So what I found
in all my investigation

and talking to a couple of
the, the women who have left,

the abuse that they
received before they left

while they're in
the Order is just...

unbelievable sexual
and physical abuse

and has to stop.

So, the Kingstons
are interesting.

They're headquartered
in Davis County.

The organization is
known as the Order.

And one of the things
that's interesting about them

is they have quite a bit of
money.

There are members of the Order

who own a series
of small businesses

that produce
quite a bit of revenue.

And they practice polygamy.

They've been doing it for as
long as they've been around.

When you talk with
people within the order,

particularly women
who have left,

you hear about
a lot of sex abuse,

and a lot of sex abuse
amongst the families.

Lu Ann Kingston says

sometimes brothers
sexually abuse sisters.

They're raised to
think that it's okay

because Dad marries his sister,

and so I can do this to you.

A woman's role
in the Order is simple--

bring kids into this world.

You're being raised
in the church

that, from the day one,
you're being told

you will be married.

Groomed from four years old
to be married at 16.

Then you go at a
young age and you are married

to bring kids into the world.

But the most
disgusting thing for me

is that the parents
are the middleman

between the prophet and the kid.

You will find
that there's...

a happiness that will come from
pleasing those around you...

that can come in no other way.

And as a parent, I am disgusted,
I'm appalled, I'm angry.

I'm doing what I do
because this is just wrong.

Well, here comes Tawni.
Hold on.

-Hey.
- What's up?

I just spoke with Lu Ann
and she's available now

if you want to go over
there and talk with her.

She said that she'd love
to help us with this.

And maybe even let her
speak to these women?

Well, it's better her.
She, she's lived it.

So maybe we can come up with
some ideas and things like that.

But she's available now?

She is.
She's available now.

I mean, she's great.
You already know that.

-See you in a bit.
-Love you.

-Love you.
-Bye.

Bye.

I first met Lu Ann

in probably 2016,
'17, around there.

And I met Lu Ann through
helping people leave polygamy.

When you think about
a person who has helped people

and wants to help
people leave polygamy,

it's Lu Ann Cooper.

Lu Ann was
15 when her family told her

she had to marry a man
who already had three wives.

"I am not ready
because I'm too young."

And he said, "No, you're not,

because my other
three wives were 15 or 16."

What's common with
all the women's stories

is that nothing has changed.

We have Lu Ann
in one generation.

We have other people
in other generations.

And to tell their
story to Lu Ann,

who can understand them

and who has been through
all the same things

that they have been through

is just gonna make it
easier for these people

to stand up and say,
yes, this happened to me

and it needs to stop.

-Hey, Matt!
-Hey!

-How's it going?
-What's going on?

- Come on in.
- Thank you.

-Smells good.
- Thanks.

-Too good.
-Wanna stay for dinner?

Yeah, I wish.

Hey, so, part of what I'm doing

is I'm hearing the stories
of abuse, whether it's physical,

mental, within the Order.

What if I told you
that there's, a, a, a woman.

Her name is Julia.

And she wants to talk
to you, and she's left.

-I would welcome it.
-All right.

She is in Montana,
in a town in Montana,

-and love for you to go see her.
-Sure.

Because she wants
to talk to you.

And I would go and talk to her,

because I'm open
to talk to anybody.

-But I'm a guy.
-Yup.

And when
you leave polygamy,

-you're leaving abusive men.
-Yes.

And probably when you left,

you wanted nothing to do
with talking to someone like me.

I was triggered by men in suits.

- Okay.
-Yeah.

So...

Can you go and talk to her?

-Sure, absolutely.
- Okay, beautiful.

The next person,

when you talk Kingstons
and women leaving,

there's--you and
Mary Ann are like the--

you're either the
angels or the devil,

depending on who you talk to.

And Daniel was convicted
for beating her.

Yeah.

And she's what to you?

She's my niece.

She's my full sister's kid.

And so we grew up very close.

So I can definitely reach
out and ask to talk to her,

ask her to share her story,

but she's never
shared it before.

Why is that, you think?

It's too traumatic.

I would love if you could
sit down and talk to her.

Okay.

Seriously,
that would be amazing.

The Order's not
gonna get shut down

unless the women stand up.

That's true.

And guess what?

Lu Ann Cooper and Mary Ann
and Julia and many others

can be those voices.

Okay.

- All right, thank you.
-Thanks, Matt.

And we'll talk, all right?
Keep in touch.

And when you get back,
give me a call.

-Okay.
- All right.

I will for sure.
Thanks, Matt.

They claim that
being a part of the Order

is going to get you to the
celestial degree of glory,

or however they put it.

Meanwhile, when
you're in the Order,

you are literally in Hell.

Julia Peterson
left the Order when she was 18.

And Julia has said that

growing up in the Order
is sexual abuse.

I agree with her.
I grew up sexually abused.

The girls that I knew growing up
were being sexually abused.

It was...horrific.

It's important to meet these
girls and hear their stories

so that we can, one,
see what they've been through,

and two, so that
we can know how to help

people that are still in there,

but also help people
that have left.

- Hi.
- Hi, how are ya?

- Good, how are you?
- Good.

It's good to see you.

So I left when you were two.

-In 2000.
-Yes.

And so I don't
even remember you!

I just remember
some of the stories

and things that, of course--

Oh, I'm sure there were stories.
I'm sure there were stories.

Of course, they're never
flattering, but...

That's because they're
covering their own...

-crimes.

But, you know,
it's to be expected.

That's what they do.

My name
is Julia Peterson.

I grew up in the Order.

I have over 20 siblings.

Um, 13 of them
belong to my mother

and the others belong
to my dad's second wife.

The reason I am sharing
my experience and my story now

after all this time is because
I have now become a parent

and a mother myself,

and the kids deserve it,

just as when I was a child,

I wish somebody would've
stood up for me.

So growing up,
I was abused

for as long as I can
remember until I was 12.

Have you experienced that?

Yes, I, I have
experienced, um, abuse

on several different
levels growing up

in that church and
in that community.

And you're made to feel
that it's your fault.

And when I was
a little girl, um,

I was molested by my cousin.

And when I went to
an adult to go tell them,

you know, hey, this
is happening, you get scolded!

They start getting mad at you.

And I instantly
felt so much shame.

So I instantly then
thought this is normal.

Oh my goodness.

This is normal.
There's nothing wrong with this.

Your role as a,
a woman in the church

was to serve the men.

If you're in between
the ages of 10 and 12,

when they introduce
this idea to you

that you gotta start
praying to find

your number one
choice in marriage.

They will
start what they call

the maturation classes,

where they'll start
telling you for the women

how your body's changing
and how wonderful it is

to be able to start finding
your place and your number one,

and to be able to
start getting married,

and that you could
start having children.

And this is all before
you're in high school, um...

So when I finally
decided to get married,

I had chosen the choice
that was presented to me

who was about six
years older than me.

So he was in his
twenties and I was 16.

It was about three
months in that I realized,

I don't like you.

I don't wanna be married to you.

And I'd even told,
you know, my mother

and aunts and people
that I don't really like him.

Everybody just kind of
gave me the runaround,

you know, of, "Oh, do
you think I liked your dad

when I married him at first?"

And you learn to
like the people,

and the more you care for him
and the more you do for him,

the more you love them.

And...I don't know if they told
you these kinds of things, but--

Oh yeah.

In our 12-year-old classes
and our marriage prep classes,

we were told that
if you're not happy,

-that's your own fault.
-Yup.

And your happiness
is your responsibility.

- Mm-hmm.
-And...

Yours and your
husband's happiness.

You better make him happy too.

Yeah, and your
husband's happiness.

Of course, you know,
he's trying to

get you to start your family.

And so he's changing my diet,

and drink raw milk, and do
the comfrey, do this, do that.

I was like, I don't think
that's how this works.

And I felt like
a science experience.

And then when you
didn't agree with it

and you'd speak up about
it, you'd get in trouble,

and then you'd get
scheduled in a meeting,

whether it be
with one of the wives

or with...you know, his dad,

which, oh my gosh, those
meetings are so uncomfortable.

Paul would tell you, you know,
"Oh, here's this book."

And it was about
how to time ovulation

to get someone pregnant.

And even--he was like,
"Oh, maybe if we can

try to find it more
pleasurable for you."

And I felt like
an object so much by him.

It was very uncomfortable,
and Paul would tell you,

"This is a good vibrator."
It was like, what?

So of course the husband
goes out and buys this vibrator.

And, "Here, this is for you!"

And it's like, I
don't want that.

I don't want you to
do those things to me.

And it was like, I am a child.
I'm 16 years old.

This isn't when
we're supposed to be

doing these kinds of things.

So I was very confused by it

because this seemed extreme,
you know, and forceful.

Then he would start
the whole shame and blame

that there are children
and souls up in Heaven

waiting to come down,

and you're preventing
them to come down.

And, and just guilt trip you

and almost coerce you into
sleeping with him, you know?

And, "Lay down."
You know, it was like, okay.

And when you try to
talk to people about it,

it was, oh, yeah,
everyone has their things.

Everyone has their deals.

And it was just
kind of brush off.

But then it just got
to a point where...

I just started to say no.

And I was lucky that
I was in my parents' basement.

And I told him, "If you
touch me, I'm gonna scream."

My husband, he really wanted
to move out of my parents' house

because I wasn't cooperating.

And he felt a big part
of that was because

I was still home
with my parents.

So how did
you finally leave?

That, uh, Fourth of July,
on Independence Day,

I went to work that morning

and my parents went to
my brothers' ball games.

And he was at his mom's.
And I thought, "This is it.

This is my chance to leave."

Nobody was here at the house.

Now is the time
to get some things.

And I threw all
my stuff out the window,

pulled it back in,
threw it all back out.

But it was really hard to
get the courage to finally leave

because I was
terrified, you know,

of the repercussions,
and was I making...

the right choice, and
what was gonna happen after.

But...

it was worth...

it was worth the risk.

I had gotten an apartment
out in Bountiful.

I just met this,
you know, outside girl

that had a room to rent.

And the very next day,

I went into a job interview
and I got a job.

So I went right back to work.

My parents and my ex-husband

started blowing up all
my social media and everything

when I left, trying
to get in contact with me and...

going through my phone records

of anybody that I could've
possibly have talked to

and showing up at their
homes and, "Is she here?"

I felt very harassed. I...

You know, I got my
divorce and I said,

"I want to be done
with you guys. I don't...

Yeah, leave me be."

Life outside of the Order gets
better and better every year.

I have met some extraordinary
people out in the world

and I was able to fall
in love with one of them.

And together, we can
raise a family in a way

that we are okay answering for.

So thank you
for meeting with me

and being willing
to talk and have a voice.

I hope that by speaking
up and speaking out,

more people have
the courage, ah,

and don't feel so alone
in that, like, we once did.

When more people start
to speak up and stand up,

strength is in numbers,
because you're not alone.

They're not alone.
We're here for them.

They can just reach out.

-We're here with open arms.
-Mm-hmm. Exactly.

-I wanna give you a hug.
-Okay.

I feel so connected to you now.

Lu Ann, Matt.

I'm, I'm going good.
How are you?

Julia, how,
how did she do?

So how's
she dealing with it?

I just think it's super sad

that she even
has to do all that.

Okay.

Oh, for sure.
We'll talk soon.

All right, bye bye.

With all
the different abuses

and things that happen
within these communities,

I think the best thing
to do is shed light on it

because at least people know.

But that's not all we can do.

I think what we also need to do
is provide a way to help

these victims and survivors
of polygamy survive.

You know, talking
to survivors of the abuse

and the traumas that happen

within these
polygamist societies,

um, I thought it was good
that we can actually talk to

a professional, an
expert in the area,

that helps these survivors.

I have yet to meet
any psychologist

who specializes in
a field like Dr. Beall does.

And really looking forward
to talking to him about it.

Dr. Beall, how are you?

Good.

- I'm Matt Browning.
- Matt. Come on in.

So this is your place?

Well, just a little
part of it over here.

Nice. How long
you've been doing this?

-Trauma work?
-Trauma work.

-Thirty-five years.
-Wow.

And how did you
get involved with

the religious side of things?

Well, I worked with
one victim, and then another.

And I think somehow,
the word got out

that this guy works with us.

And I started seeing more,
and it just grew over the years.

Did you see a lot of Kingstons?

Do you talk to Kingstons at all?

Just different
polygamist groups.

My name is Dr. Larry Beall.

I'm a clinical psychologist

who has worked in the
field of trauma for 35 years.

In 2005, I wrote a paper on

the effects of modern-day
polygamy on women and children.

And that led to me doing
a series of court cases.

From the lives of
those I've worked with,

uh, they were,
uh, married young.

Some of them 12, 14, 16.

And, uh, the obstacles they
had to overcome to escape it

were tremendous.

In Utah, you can marry
with parental consent at 16.

It's illegal to marry
at 13, 14, and 15.

In Utah, it's also
illegal to marry an uncle,

a stepparent,
a brother, a half brother,

or anything that creates incest.

What I was observing
resembled, um,

those who had been controlled
in a very restricted environment

and suffered abuses without any
ability to escape or retaliate

or do anything to
defend themselves.

The result was post-traumatic
stress disorder.

And so I became concerned
that this was going on

within the state

without anything
being done about it.

You mention that you're
dealing with young ladies--

I mean,
I'll call them kids--

married at 12 years old.

What does that psychologically
do to a person at that age?

Well, I'm working with women
in their thirties and forties

who were able to escape
with their children.

But when they were
younger, you know,

each individual has
their own identity,

and these polygamist groups
did not give any recognition

or validity to the person.

It was about them as an
instrument for their purposes.

Now, would that be an instrument

for the leader's
purpose or for--

-Leader's.
-Really?

Not the organization.
The leader's.

So basically the
kids are a pawn for

whoever's leading the
organization at the time.

Yes, absolutely.

How did they instill
that, that, um...

that mentality in them?

Is it through fear?
Is it through abuse?

Is it...
How do they do that?

A good question.

Um, so the leader works through
his mid-management people,

if I can call them that,
which would be the fathers

of these children.

And there's
repetitious teaching,

which could be
considered brainwashing

because of its nature.

And then there would
be the conditioning,

which is--well, if you
follow these teachings,

you'll get this result--

good if you follow,
bad if you don't.

So by the time they get married,

their path is very, very clear.

And they don't wanna
deviate from it

for the reasons I just
gave, the conditioning.

So there's fear--
fear of consequences.

There's fear of disapproval.

It's very clear
if you don't follow

the dictates of the leader,
um, you're outcast.

These religious
polygamist groups,

they're creating an atmosphere
for women and children

to be abused at all
levels and at all ages.

Yes.

I've worked with
prisoner of war camps.

I put them up there with
survivors of those experiences.

So you put the
survivors of polygamy

at the same level as survivors
of a prisoner of war camp?

Yes.

Explain to me how you do that.

Control.

The use of pain to get results.

Information control.

Creating conditions where
the brain becomes pliable,

like sleeplessness or whatever.

Wow.

Yeah, it's very similar.

Wow.

And my aim ultimately
is to decondition their minds

from things that are not true
or helpful to them, beneficial,

and then teach them to
follow this, their inner voice,

so they become free.

I'm extremely humbled to
be here and to talk to you

because I've learned a lot.

-Thank you.
-Yeah.

Good to meet you, Matt.

You're all right.

We grew up together.

And she left
after Daniel beat her

for running away
from her husband, David.

Two of the brothers that help
run the Davis County Co-Op--

that's the original
name of the group--

now face separate
felony charges.

John Daniel for
beating unconscious

his 16-year-old daughter

who fled a polygamist
marriage to her uncle

and David Kingston,
the uncle charged with incest

and unlawful sexual contact.

She is finally
willing to share her story.

It's important that we speak out

and this is not okay.

Like, the abusers need to know
what they're doing isn't okay,

and the people being
abused need to know that

what's happening
to them isn't okay.

And we need to shine a light on
what's happening and help them.

Help them all.

This is gonna be
vulnerable for both of us,

but so good to share
with the world.

Hi, how are ya?

Good. How are you?

I'm good.

So...

We get to talk about...

so many things.

And I want to just
tell you how proud I am...

that you're willing
to talk about it.

It's time, time to do something.

My name is Mary Ann Kingston.

And I was a member of the Order.

My parents were Susie Nelson
and John Daniel Kingston.

My parents are half
siblings--different moms,

same dad.

Your mom is my sister,
my full sister.

Thus, I'm your aunt.

But she was
23 years older than me.

What was it like growing
up in the Order for you?

-Chaos.
- Yeah.

Um...

A lot of secrets.

A lot of secrets, a lot of lies.

Growing up in the Order,

I was told what to do.

I was directed,
and I didn't make decisions.

I wasn't...allowed to.

I had to ask permission
for everything.

I started to feel like
I didn't belong there

in, I would say, junior high,

seventh, eighth grade.

I was being groomed
for marriage.

I didn't feel like I...

wanted to serve a husband.

I didn't feel good about it.

It didn't sit right with me.

It was scary as we got older,

seeing our friends
being groomed to get married

and how excited
they seemed to be

and how I was the
opposite of excited.

I just felt like I was different

and I needed to not
get married so young.

I felt like that too.

At 15, I felt like I was
way too young to get married,

but I knew there
was no way out of it.

And so...

I pushed it off
as long as I could.

Me too.

When I was 13,

Daniel started
talking to me about

who did I think
I was gonna marry

and to pray about who
I was supposed to marry.

And it felt like
he was planting seeds,

meaning he...mentioned,
"Oh, my brother David

would like to...meet with you."

Or, "What do you
think about David?"

And I just...

He was older.
I didn't know him.

You know, Daniel would say,
"Oh, let's have a meeting,

let's have a meeting."

And I'd put it off and avoid it.

And then...I'm getting
older and older, 16 now,

and...middle October,
Monday night,

I got a call from
Daniel and he said,

"You're gonna get
married on Wednesday."

So David had
14 other wives already.

I was his 15th.

But even at, at the wedding...

I, I don't know if
you remember this,

but it was supposed to
start at a certain time

and I locked myself
in the bathroom.

I do remember.

And Daniel's
banging on the door,

"You gotta come out!
It's time to come out!"

I do remember.

And he went in
there alone with you

and basically pushed
you out the door.

Yup.

When we got married,
I was 16 and he was 33.

He would have sex with me.

And no explanation
of...this is what to expect.

No...is this okay, is that okay.
It just happened.

I didn't know what to do.

When you first tried
to run away, what happened?

It's not that
I tried to run away.

It's that I went
out with friends

and tried not to
come home until...

That's different.

You know, until...

you have nowhere else to go.

David had one of his
other wives staying with me,

kind of babysitting me,

making sure that
I wouldn't leave at night.

She would stay with me,

in my bed.

It was one of the nights
that David was staying with her

at her house

that I finally found
a window where I could leave.

But I didn't know
where I was gonna go.

I wanna say I was
gone all night.

Like, that was the first
time I was gone all night.

And I came back.

And people were upset with me.

So I, I remember taking a bus.

I was just gonna
go to see these--

My mom, she apparently was in
trouble because I was missing.

And she called Daniel.

And I think
I remember--were you there?

Yeah.

Yeah,
you would've been with us.

So I was at Susie's house.

When we got there,
you were in the bathroom.

And, um, Susie told
you Daniel was coming,

and you said,
"I don't want him to come.

I don't want to see him."

And he got there and
he's like, "Where is she?"

And Susie's like,
"She's in the bathroom."

And so he went into
the bathroom and, um,

was in there for a few minutes.

And then he had ahold
of the back of your shirt

and pushed you
out the front door.

Yeah, I remember that now.

And disappeared
into the night.

And all of a sudden,
we hear this scream.

And so I ran to the window.

I said, "Did you
guys hear that?"

Everybody was like, "I
didn't hear anything."

I just remember thinking, "Oh
my gosh, this is a nightmare!"

And I...I mean, I hate to
go down this lane and ask you

to share what
happened that night

when he took you
Washakie, but...

as we share our abuses,

we are letting other
people in the Order know

that they're not alone,

that they're not the only ones,

that they can overcome
it like you did.

So if you're willing to share
how the rest of that night went,

as much as you can.

I don't remember
knowing where I was going.

I didn't know where
he was gonna take me.

I really didn't know...

um, we were gonna
go to Washakie.

My father, Daniel,

hit me in the front
of his truck next to him,

in the front seat,
hanging on to me,

and yelling at me.

And we just kept going
north and north and north.

So we get there, and I remember
him taking off his belt,

and he said,
"Take off your coat."

And he said,

"You'll get one
lashing for every...

time you made a mistake."

I remember it was, like,
27 or something, 28 times.

I remember getting to the end.

And then I wake up on the couch
in the house, at the ranch.

And nobody was there.
Nobody's around.

And it's dark.
It's, you know--

I don't know what time.

So when you woke up
and it was still dark outside,

did you stay on
the couch or did you...

I stayed right there.

I didn't know what
I was instructed to do.

Everything hurt.

I remember that
just pain everywhere.

The next day,
everybody was leaving

to go to church.

And after everybody left,

I just got up
and got my coat on,

and I started walking.

I knew the gas station was

at the end of the, the road.

I don't know how far that was,

but I walked and walked.

And each car that came up,
I hid down in the--

on the side of
the road, in the bushes,

'cause I didn't know
who it would be.

And I didn't want to get caught
walking away or leaving.

Yeah.

I decided that once
I get to the gas station,

I'm gonna call the cops.

When the cop got
to the gas station,

I was still worried that he
was gonna turn back to the farm.

But I do remember
the cop saying,

"It's obvious something's
going on here,

"I mean, with the
bruises on your face.

You need some help."

So the cop took me
to, um, the hospital.

So I was in the ER
to get checked out.

And, you know,
I tell the story to them,

'cause I'm getting
braver and braver.

And, uh, I told them about

Daniel whipping
me with his belt.

They all seemed just horrified.

"How could anybody do
this to their child?"

And then they sent me
to a women's shelter

until we could...

figure out what to do with me.

So at what
point did you realize,

oh, I'm leaving the Order?

Well, once I started
telling all the secrets,

which I had to tell or...

-I would get sent back.
-Yeah.

You know, it's like I wouldn't
qualify for foster care.

But it was also,
I, I didn't realize

that I was actually leaving.

I just knew I couldn't go back.

So what message
do you wanna give,

knowing that
you're their pioneer,

that you opened
the door to the possibility

of having a better life?

What message do you
want to give the people

that are still in there?

To not give up and try,

and don't wait for somebody
to come by and save you.

To decide you have to make
that decision wholeheartedly.

Like, this is
what I'm going to do,

-and follow through.
-Yeah.

You do not have
to live this way.

Okay, well,
I need to hug you.

Thank you so much.

I have three women
that we've talked to.

We have Lu Ann,
Mary Ann, and Julia.

Each has their own
horrific story to tell.

Horrific!

Bad enough that
arrests were made.

Bad enough that people fled.

Bad enough that they would
leave their families.

You know the Kingstons
better than I do,

better than a lot of people.

You tell me, Tawni, how many
more times is this happening

than just these three?

Oh, I mean, documented
and undocumented,

these aren't isolated instances.

It's systemic in every way.

I mean, this is generational.

I think that them
telling their stories

and getting out there on this
kind of, um, platform is good.

But now the platform
that we're giving them

I'm hoping is going to
start changing the way

that people look at these
secretive societies

and these polygamist
organizations.

And that's why we're doing this.