All language subtitles for 7-63.Up.Collection.09of10.Age.63.Up.2019.720p.Bluray.x265.AAC.MVGroup.Forum

In 1964,

Granada Television brought together
a group of seven-year-olds.

When I grow up,
I want to be an astronaut.

We have followed their lives,
every seven years.

I don't want to keep still.

Life don't wait for nobody.

They talked about their dreams...

If I could,
I'd have two girls and two boys.

Their ambitions...

I would quite like to go
into politics.

And their fears for the future.

Life is what happens while you're
waiting for something else.

I don't think life is there
to be regretted.

You got to make the most of it
while you've got it.

That's how you become
the person you are.

It's a picture of how any person...
how they change.

Give me a child until he is seven
and I will give you the man.

Is it important to fight?

Yes.

Tony was brought up
in the East End of London.

I want to be a jockey
when I grow up.

Yeah, I want to be a jockey
when I grow up!

At 14, he was already an apprentice

at Tommy Gosling's
racing stable at Epsom.

HOOF BEATS

At 15, he'd left school.

This is a photo finish
when I rode at Newbury.

I'm the one with the white cap.

I was beaten a length
and a half for third

and had a photo finish.

Do you regret not making it?

I would have given my right arm
at the time to become a jockey.

But now...

..I wasn't good enough.

My greatest fulfilment in life...

..when I rode at Kempton
in the same race as Lester Piggott.

Proudest day of my life.

What will you do
if you don't make it as a jockey?

I don't know.

If I knew I couldn't be one,
I would get out of the game.

Wouldn't bother.

What do you think you would do then?

Learn on taxis.

At 21, he was on The Knowledge.

And by 28, owned his own cab.

I'll give you the story,
which happened.

The doorman called me up

and it was Buzz Aldrin,
the spaceman.

And we drove out of the forecourt
of the hotel

and a cab pulled up and taxi driver
said,

"Can you get his autograph?"

So I heard it and say,

"Mr Aldrin, can I have your
autograph, please?"

And the cabbie said,
"No, I don't want his autograph,

"I want your autograph."

And I couldn't believe it and
I said, "You're joking, ain't ya?!"

And to this day,
I thought to myself,

"I'm more famous than
Buzz Aldrin!

"He was the second man to land
on the moon!"

At 42, Tony had left the East End

and moved the family
to Woodford in Essex.

Well, I think we overspent about...

Well, a colossal amount.

Thousands.

At 49, they had taken out a second
mortgage on the London house

and put the money into
a holiday home in Spain.

So, it's seven years since
we did this.

Flown by, Michael.
Just gone.

What's life been like
since we did 56 UP?

Well, when we had our last
interview, if you remember,

I was Spain and I was looking
for a business to sort of set up.

From here, there's going to be
all commercial units here.

My intentions would be to turn one
of these units into a sports bar.

Did you have financial difficulties?

There was no money out there.

All the businesses started to close.

Aldi had come along and built
a brand-new supermarket there.

So all my aspirations
and dreams went out the window.

People kept coming back
from their dream, also evaporating,

and they come back.

So, my wife and I decided
to pack up and come back

and sell our house and consolidate
all our finances.

I wish I was still there.

And I wish it was a vibrant city
which I could have had an input in.

Because I would have loved to have
maintained my property out there.

SCHOOL BELL RINGS

It was a dream come true
for a boy in the buildings.

You must understand.

I'm only a cabbie.

Have you got a girlfriend?

Nope.

Would you like to have a girlfriend?

Nope.

Do you understand the four Fs?

Find them, feed them...
And forget them.

For the other F I'll let you
use your own discriminish...

I mean, this one,
I tried to do the three Fs...

..but I couldn't forget her.

And why did you
fall in love with him?

Dunno.

I don't know how you put up with me
for so long.

I don't know how. Sometimes,
I don't know how I stand him.

I'm not proud at all to say this,

but situations arise that...

..I have had regretful
behaviour at various times.

You got caught.

And that was it.

I owe Debbie everything
because she stuck by me.

And then...

..at the end of it...

..I still love her so.

And that's the reason why.

So, is this a tough time
for cabbies at the moment?

Uber and all these other companies
trying to take a piece of the cake

they're coming in and they're
getting licenses willy-nilly.

Is there are war going on
between cabbies and Uber?

What they've done to the cab trade
with a 250-year-old history

I cannot stress enough.

So, all the cabbies, 4,000 of us,

we got our placards,

we marched to Downing Street
on a demonstration.

I for one will be there again,

beating my drum for the black taxi
trade.

How much have you lost
in yearly salary?

I would certainly say a third,
which is a big kick in the rear.

And it's really hurtful.

And what about Debbie?
Has she been hit by it?

Well, of course!
We've all been hit by it.

That's why I'm back in Essex now.

Come on, Daisy.
Come on.

CLICKS TONGUE

Look at the head on that horse.

Ah, Lovely.

Really it was me.

I decided that I wanted to move
from where we used to live.

And I come up here one day
and this one was up for sale.

And then he came up here...
I saw the horses.

And he saw the horses out here
and he fell in love with it.

You've got to be 50 years old
to live here,

you got a lot of elderly
people here,

but there are ex-East Enders

and all sort of like traditional
East Enders.

It's all forest round here.

Got a little pub up the road,

if you go up there
you can get pie-eyed

and walk down if you want.

Nature is the winner for me.

I come home at night,
I see foxes running about,

reindeers at 1 o'clock
in the morning

after I done a night's work
in my cab.

Life couldn't be better,
really, living up here.

How is life going for you two?
In your marriage?

It's solid.
Would you say it's solid?

Yeah.
It's good at the moment. Yeah.

We've overcome a lot of ups
and downs, but who don't?

Do you notice a change
in each other?

Have we? Or what? I don't know.

THEY CHUCKLE

Not really.
He's never changed, has he?

He seems to be more grown-up,
more mature and everything.

Yeah, well,
I don't know about that, but...

But no, I mean, he is what he is.
And nothing's gonna change him.

There is only one ambition
I have, really.

I want a baby son.

If I see my baby son,
that will be my ambition fulfilled.

No-one knows that. Only you, now.
CHUCKLES

Debbie and Tony have three children.

Nicky, Jodie and Perry.

Nicky, as you know,
he was a French polisher,

which is a dying trade in England.

So we funded him, me and Debbie,
on The Knowledge.

I couldn't ask for more.

To be more proud
when he got his badge,

it was a gift from God
for what happened.

Perry's at college at the moment.

Training to be a TA,
teachers assistant.

Because she wants a job that
fits in with the schools.

High five?

Whoever wins gets
a packet of sweets, agree?

We've got six grandchildren.

The three young kids,
Perry's kids, my youngest daughter.

Quick!

If it goes in, you get a fiver!

LAUGHTER

Jodie's still trying
to find her way in life.

She's 37 now.

Life's not been too good for her
at this present time.

Debbie and I do everything we can
to get her back on her feet and...

Excuse me.

When you visually see it happening,

you can see the change
in her attitude,

you can see the change
in her appearance,

it's not a nice place
to be.

Watching your daughter struggle.

Jodie has a daughter, Toni.

Debbie and I brought her up, solely.

All I can say is,
she's turned out beautiful.

We're very proud of Toni,

she's had to overcome a lot
in her life,

but she's doing well.

Do you know all the girls
and all the kids that are going?

She works hard in the pub,

she saves her own money,

she's got her own independence

and all that on young shoulders,
Michael.

She's very, very efficient.

I'm in two golf societies.

And who are the guys you play with?

They're mostly publicans
or taxi drivers, you know.

We always end up in a small bet.

It's good.
Great shot! Great shot.

A tenner a man, OK?

No, Tone, no.
You took our money last week.

Give us all a chance, would you?

LAUGHTER

That's got 460 on the metre,
that has.

So, how is your health these days?

I've got DVT,
which is deep vein thrombosis,

a condition from family,
from my brother,

my sister, we've all
been affected by DVT

and I'm on warfarin now
for the rest of my life

because I did have
a pulmonary embolism

which I had a blockage
and it went to my lung.

If it had gone to my brain,
or my heart,

then I wouldn't be having this
interview with you now.

Nice one. That's in.

I'm more health conscientious
than I've ever been, really.

Well, you ain't,
cos you eat a lot of chocolate.

Well, I accept that,
that's fair enough.

That's not health-conscious, is it?
All right, I'll give you that one.

But I don't smoke and I don't drink
and trust me, I exercise.

Most of all, I don't do any...

What do they call it?

Yeah, all right.

That's machinery under there, too.
That's not... That's not mine.

THEY CHUCKLE

CHILDREN CHATTER

In 1964, we asked Tony
what he thought

about the English class system.

The poshun's:
"Oh, yes, oh, yes, oh, yes."

They're nuts!

Just have to tash 'em.

If you don't got to work for it

and it's them,
you just ask for money and get it.

And they can buy what they want.

55 to 20, Boris.

I'm one of the tail end.
You think East End boy,

he ain't got a no good
education.

All of a sudden,
the East End boy's got a car,

motorbike
and goes to Spain every year.

There is no education in this world.

It's just one big rat race

and you've got to kill your men next
year to get in front of him.

At the end of the day,
it's always them and us.

And for me, it still them and us.

Obviously if you come from
a bit of a silver spoon,

you're going to get more
attractive jobs and easier life.

And an easier success.

But that don't mean
they don't have to work for it.

I feel that the economy will
bust within five years.

Because people like myself, have
been giving and giving all the time.

We are paying.
And someone's getting it.

At our expense.

What's your feeling about Brexit?

Brexit? Well, I was a leaver.

I wanted to pass in my cab
at the House of Commons

and look out and think to myself,
that's where we make the decisions.

Like, Great Britain.

And I thought to myself, you know,
this is what I wanted.

But then again,
they moved the goalposts.

And even now,
nearly two years down the line,

I'm even getting second thoughts
that we should have remained.

I would never vote Tory again.

And I've been a Tory
vote for all of my life.

And probably
I might even vote for the Greens.

Do you have much to do
with villains?

I wouldn't say I'm a villain myself.

I don't go thieving and I don't do
anybody any harm, fighting-wise.

Does it worry you the possibility
of becoming one of them?

How can I become a villain?

If it's not in you, if it's not
born in you, you won't become one.

You had visions of me being
in the nick in the next seven years,

you know?

You made a great mistake there,
Michael.

Well thank God, yeah.

It seemed possible, because things
were pretty rough.

I was 21.

Everyone's allowed to be 21.

Four to one, Cooladine...
Four-and-a-half 50s.

If your father gambles.
I'll try my luck, see what he does.

CHEERING

I never had visions of me
being anything else

other than a good citizen.

I mean, I am a cheeky chappie
and I'll accept that

and I'll promise that sometimes
I'll push the barrier to the limits.

SCHOOL BELL RINGS

But in saying that,
you are giving your truthful opinion

at that particular time

and I've always worn my heart on my
sleeve

I have always thought I would
give you a credible,

truthful, honest opinion
of what is going on in my life,

I mean, that's the way that I am.

Tell me something, what do you
want to be a cab-driver for, mate?

All the holidays in Spain
every year?

But, son, it's hard work out there,
mate.

You're not reaching me yet.

No, you're not getting to me.

All right?
Now, be bigger, dominate me.

All right? Son...

At 28,
Tony was taking acting lessons.

Now he supplements his income
with occasional TV jobs.

Oy!

That's all I got on me.

Mate, if I had a pound for every
time I heard that,

I'd be a rich man.

HORN HONKS

It's exciting times for me.

Because I got a part in a film
and it's showing a premiere tonight.

I've been struggling as a film
extra in 1976

when I first started The Sweeney.

Last year was The Child in Time

with Benedict Cumberbatch,

Debbie is over there at the bar.

She's a bit nervous about it.

I mean, hopefully I've come out
with some credibility on the part.

Most of all, I wanted to say to her
if she sees her husband

up there rather than the character,
then I know I haven't done my job.

You fucking tell that Chinaman

he'll be in there eating egg fried
rice in a minute!

What's the matter with you?

It's called 90 Minutes.

But the best thing about it
was the cast and crew

all become one big family
and it was a joy to go and work

at Hackney Marshes, incidentally,

where I used to play football
and referee.

And it was like going home.

Would everybody please sit round
now, get on with their work.

I don't want to see any backs to me.
Tony, do you hear as well?

One of the things at the beginning
of the programme is,

show me the child
and I will show you the man.

Erm, you look at me at seven.

And you look at me even now at 63.

There's no possible way that you
can say that's not him now.

And that's not him then.

You got it right with me.

I read the Financial Times.

I read the Observer and The Times.

# Happy together
happy together... #

I'm going to Charterhouse.

And after that,
to Trinity Hall, Cambridge.

Andrew went to Charterhouse
and Cambridge, where he read law.

I'd like to be a solicitor.
And also fairly successful.

At 28, Andrew was a solicitor.

What do you think
about girlfriends at your age?

I've got one,
but I don't think much of her.

They are no longer just bores.

Who "won't play this", or something.

And you can begin to talk to them.

I don't think I financially come
from the same background.

Andrew didn't go for a haughty Deb,
he went for a good Yorkshire lass.

By the time he was 28,
Andrew had married Jane.

I suppose the most important
thing that's happened,

is that we've had two children.

One five years ago, Alexander

and a couple of years later,
Timothy.

By 35, he had become
a partner in his law firm.

Smile!

Later, he joined the legal
department

of a large
British industrial company.

A few years after, they were
taken over by a German firm.

So, how are the other members
of the family?

Well, Alexander, who was going
out with Philippa when we last met,

got married about three-and-a-half
years ago.

And they are now both working
and living in London.

Timothy worked for a management
consultancy in the IT area

and then decided to specialise in IT

and has gone to
Birmingham University

and he's reading
computer science there.

Andrew and Jane live in London,

but they have a second
home in the country.

Well we bought it
just about when we got married.

It was a 200-year-old
barn that we bought in auction.

Completely derelict, nothing in it
at all except for manure.

I remember the garden when you
were up to your eyeballs

in weeds and stuff like that.

Well, we moved in about 35 years ago

and we've been working on it
ever since, really.

It's a never ending job.

I think the country has helped
with him relaxing

when he's had very intense
periods of working.

Don't you ever have any arguments
or disagreements?

Of course we do.

And how do you
tend to sort them out?

Jane is always right.

THEY CHUCKLE

If only.

He is quite strong in his decisions.

And I'm not.

So, it really compliments me

that he can help me to make a
decision when I'm umming and erring.

Now, you be careful, sweetheart.
Yeah, I will, I'll be careful.

I think I'll hold the ladder
for you. OK, thank you.

The latest thing we did,
we went to Japan a few years ago,

and we saw some very nice
Japanese gardens in Kyoto.

And we decided we would
have a go

at doing something like that
here as well.

The most dangerous things I do,
climb up that ladder.

CHUCKLES

Work is pretty stressful, isn't it?

Yeah, I'm pretty used to it now,
I've been doing it for 40 years,

so, you get pretty used to it.

Erm, but in fact, I'm retiring
at the end of this year.

Which I'm looking forward to.

Come on, Millie, let's go.
Where are we going?

One of the reasons why I wanted
to retire now

is really because
we're relatively young.

To make the most of that time.

We're in a bit of a sweet spot now,

I think, in terms of going
travelling and so on.

Maybe in five, ten years'
time that won't be possible.

And the worst thing is,
you hear about people who retire

and then just drop dead.

Looking back, I would have
liked to have spent a bit more

time with the family.

You know, rather than giving
so much priority to work.

When you are young and trying
to make your career, it all seems

terribly important to you to spend
that extra few hours in the office.

But in the scheme of things,

it probably would have been
better to,

you know, go to the school play,
or the sports day or whatever.

My mother died three years ago

and that was quite sad
to see her deteriorate.

You realise what's in store for you.

You can never be sure of leaving
your children any worldly goods,

but at least you can be sure
that once you give them

a good education that's something
that no-one can take away.

Did you ever resent
going to boarding school?

I did go very young
and we did decide that we would not

send our children to boarding
school at such young an age.

I think it's still an age
when you really want to be the one

who has the most influence
on their lives rather than

them spending their lives
with some third-party

who's going to influence them.

The dream for us is that
our children have

a happy and fulfilling life.
Do you think you have?

Yeah, I think I've been very
fortunate.

But you worked for it.

Yes. As they will have to.

When I go home, I have tea.

Then I practice my piano,
and then I...

One of the things about the series
is the idea that see the man

in the child. Is that true?

Obviously, at the age of seven,

you're very much a product
of your upbringing up to then.

I can have quite strong feelings,

but Jane has been quite a good
influence on me over the years.

Thank you. Making me more mellow.

Including in my driving
and that sort of thing.

THEY CHUCKLE

Do you think there's any truth in
the ideas behind the programme

that certain people have
more options than others

and that this is an undesirable?

We do have more options.

And it is undesirable
but it's very difficult to correct.

I think the class system itself
is now based more on fame

and what you've achieved
in financial terms.

Achievement is obviously more
appropriate

than what class you were
born into.

CHILDREN SHRIEK

What's it actually been like
being in the programme?

I certainly don't look forward to it
every seven years,

because I don't have a particularly
good memory,

it's quite interesting to me
to see what I was like

when I was younger as well.

I think we still all feel very
nervous doing this,

but I suppose as you get a bit
older, you feel less inhibited.

Maybe going back to what
you were like...

Not quite going back to what
you like when you're seven,

but you've got less to lose,
I guess.

If we did all love Geoffrey
and we all want to marry him,

I think I know the one that
he'd like. And that's her.

She keeps changing her mind,
though. Yeah.

I don't know which one, really.

Sue grew up in the East End
of London.

I don't think I'd...

..get married too early.

I'd like to have a full life first.

Marriage means a different
thing to me.

I still got my ideas about
marriage,

I dunno what it's all about.

Sue was 24 when she married Billy.

And they had two children.
60.

To get married young,
there must be things that you miss.

You must miss
that crucial stage

of being yourself,

because the minute you get married,
you're no longer a single being.

You're a partnership

and that should be the idea
behind it.

By the time Sue was 35,
she was divorced.

I've never sat down and thought,

"What was it? Was it this,
was it that?"

I just knew it wasn't working.

I mean, there have been
relationships

when I could have settled,
but they didn't feel quite right.

So I've always come away
and pulled away and just waited

until the right one came along.

If they ever do.

# ..said you'd be coming back
this way again, baby... #

At 42, when we filmed
Sue in the karaoke bar,

she brought Glenn along
to watch her sing.

# Baby, baby, baby, oh, baby... #

Well, we've been engaged
now for about 14 years!

SHE LAUGHS

I'm not beating any records,
but it's quite a long time, innit?

Where you going?

So, what is the status with you
and Glenn?

We are still in the middle of the
longest engagement known to man.

We've been together now over 20
years, still not married,

never say never...

But no plans.

Goldfish. See? Oh, yeah.

We are both fine as it is.

If we do it, it's just going to be,
"let's do it."

A spur of the moment thing.

We love each other,
we've got a nice life.

He came along at the right
time for me.

I've been on my own with the kids
for quite a few years.

He probably had the worst years,
really.

The teenage years,
but he stuck around, bless him.

He's been so supportive.

There's been some medical stuff
and scary stuff going on

and he's been there
and he's been my rock.

Sometimes we go and play nicely
with the boys and sometimes we go

and argue with boys.

He's having a new love in his life

which has been very,
very difficult for me...

Who are you on the phone to?

SHE CHUCKLES

What do you mean?

Motorbikes. God!

ENGINE RUMBLES

But...

SHE SIGHS

..he does like me
to get involved in this,

and I won't get on the back of it,
not yet.

Maybe when he's had a few more
years of experience under his belt.

Have you and Glenn
thought of having your own child?

Well, Glenn got with me

when I was in my 40s and I didn't
want to do all that again.

I would have loved to have
had a baby,

because he would make
a wonderful parent.

But the timing was off.

So she's your baby?

She's my new baby, yeah. My kids are
my babies, but she's my new baby.

She is our baby.
SHE LAUGHS

Mine and Glenn's.

We lost our Jesse
and Jesse was the star.

She got to a good old age
and we lost her.

The grief is unbearable
when you lose a dog.

People with pets will know.

And then a friend of mine
asked me to take her dog.

And they brought her round
to meet us. Well...

It was like, "Well, how could you
not love her? She's gorgeous."

Hang on, Molls.

I do quite a bit of typing,

but a lot of my work is involved
in making bookings

and dealing
with hotels abroad.

At 21,
Sue worked for a travel agent.

At 35,
part-time for a building society.

Everything has changed for me

cos I'm now supporting
myself a lot more.

At 42,
she went back to work full-time.

Helping to run the courses

and the legal faculty of Queen Mary
College, University of London.

At 49, she was the main
administrator for their

post-graduate programme.

Do you like the responsibility?
Yeah, I love the responsibility.

I think I was born
for the responsibility.

You can't do two modules that are
taught at the same time, obviously.

It's physically impossible for us
to timetable every single module...

Nothing has really changed,
I'm still working for Queen Mary,

20 years under my belt.
But I still enjoy it.

Once you get to your 60s,
it all gets a bit,

"Ah, how long have we got now?
How many years?"

SHE CHUCKLES

Counting down. But no. Still got
the energy, thank goodness.

So what happens when you
get to your 70s, do you think?

Oh, God...

You tell me, Michael. You know.

SHE CHUCKLES

I've worked all my life, you know.
I can't imagine not working.

I work at home one day a week now,
which is good

because the Central line
was killing me.

Erm, it's such an awful experience.

Thank you very much.
See you at graduation, yeah? Bye.

Do they have a retiring age there?

I think mine is 66.

I say I'm not looking forward to it,
but I don't know, really,

if I am because I can't imagine what
it's like to fill your days.

Where does the life of my
respectable middle-class mother

overlap with a working-class
slapper who leaves her

illegitimate child in a church door
step?! She was not! You don't know.

She was young...

I still do my drama. Do my lovey
stuff, as Glenn calls it.

I like to sing,
perform and that's my hobby.

ALL: Cheers!

Cheers to the in-laws.

Today we're having a very lovely
afternoon tea.

It's just a small
gathering to celebrate my birthday.

When I got married,
the primary reason was

because I wanted to have a child.

The two, to me, went together.

LAUGHTER

How are the two children doing?
Brilliantly.

They've both bought their own flats,

they're both independent people,
good jobs.

Both my kids are single still.

Both haven't met Mr Right.

They seem to be happy
and they are a joy to me.

Well, I'm telling you now, that
little pink cake over there

and probably that one...

I do worry about the future
for younger generations.

You know, what's going to happen,

because the NHS cannot
carry on like this.

It can't cope. It can't cope now.

I think I'm probably the last
generation

that will get a decent
NHS service.

I don't like people
that are too posh.

They look down on everybody else.

Do they think they're better? Yeah.

At the root of this film,
is the class system.

Do you think it's still alive
and well?

You are what you're born into.

You'll never be upper-class because
you're born into upper-class.

But you can mix in those circles.

I mean, I don't know.
I've never been upper-class,

I'm never likely to be
upper-class in my life.

Working class, always.

I don't see why they should have

the luck when people have
worked all their lives

and haven't got half as much
as what they have.

It just don't seem fair.

People are struggling now, benefits
are not what they used to be.

I mean, I work in London, so I see
homeless people all the time.

I don't remember it being that bad
when I was younger.

I suspect it was there, but I don't
remember it being as bad as that.

My generation, we had wonderful
support from the council.

Which meant that if your parents
were council tenants,

you would get a council house.

Which got me into a house,
which then enabled me to buy it

and get onto the housing ladder
and change my life.

That's not there anymore.

Now, council housing
is so difficult to get.

You've practically
got to be homeless.

What would you do if you have lots
of money, but erm... Me? Two pound.

One of the premises of the film is
give me a child until you're seven

and I will show you the man.
Do you think that's true?

I think it probably is to an extent.

You can be born shy,
you can be born as an extrovert,

you can be someone who
likes to make people laugh,

you can be someone
who is much quieter and deeper

and I think that's in you,
but then life happens...

..and every experience
will change you.

My mum and dad, thank the Lord,
are still with us and fighting fit.

Not fit,
but fighting to be fit. You know?

My mum's currently in hospital.

I mean, I've lost family members,
yeah, and everything is sad

but I can say I've had a huge
tragedy in my life yet, Michael.

You know, we know...

..we know what's coming...

Sorry.

# Smile thought your heart is aching

# Smile... #

Do you think that these
films have any value?

They have a value to me.

Because it's a lifelong achievement
to be part of this programme,

you know?

And I'm astounded sometimes
by the people I meet

and they all know
about this programme.

They may have not watched all of it,
but they'll have a memory from it.

They pick up on things
I think that affect them.

The things we go through are what
everyone's going through.

ALL: Cheers!

When I grow up, I'd like to find out
all about the moon and all that.

BIRDS SING

Nick, a farmer's son,
grew up in the Yorkshire Dales.

And I said I was interested
in physics and chemistry, well,

I'm not going to do that here.

At 14, he was away at boarding
school and at 21,

reading physics at Oxford.

So what career are you
going to pursue?

It depends whether I'll be
good enough to do what

I want to really do.

I would like
if I can to do research.

By 28, he had moved to America,

and was doing research into
nuclear fusion

at the University of Wisconsin.

The fusion reaction gives off energy
and produces the power

that would be turned into electrical
energy and sent out to the consumer.

How hot is it in there?

In there,
it's at about ten million degrees.

At 35,
he was an associate professor.

And at 42, a full professor.

My ambition as a scientist is to be
more famous for doing science

than for being in this film,

but unfortunately, Michael,
it's not going to happen.

HE COUGHS

Now, you want some water?

Do you want constant water here?

I am seriously ill.
I have a cancer in my throat.

I don't know what's going to happen,

so I'm not really focused
on the long-term future.

I'm focused on fairly short-term
futures at the moment.

A lot of the treatments
that I've been having

are things that are not
good for your blood.

And I'd had a couple of them in
rapid succession, I guess and so...

Yeah,
my blood's a bit thin at the moment.

Ten days ago I went in
and had a blood test

and the nurse told me that the level
of my haemoglobin was such that she

expected me to be in a wheelchair.

Do you have a girlfriend?

I don't want to answer that.

I don't answer those
kind of questions.

I thought that one would come up,
because when I was...

When I was doing the other one,
and somebody said,

"What do you think about girls?"

And I said, "I don't answer
questions like that."

Is that the reason you're asking it?

The best answer would
be just to say that

I don't answer questions like that.

It was what I said when I was seven
and it still the most sensible...

But what about them?

If you'd been somebody who...

..had fixed ideas of a woman's role
in marriage

that meant dinner on the table
at six every evening...

Ah, didn't I tell you about that?
THEY CHUCKLE

By 28, Nick had married Jackie,
a fellow student from Oxford.

We don't want to miss out on the
chance of having a significant

career and we don't want to miss
out on the chance to have kids

and to be involved with them.

The one moment of pure,
unadulterated joy in my life was

when my son was handed to me
when he was born.

I have never felt so optimistic,
so just purely...

..unworried about anything
as that. It was just...

So, that's...

Did that last forever?

Well, no.
I mean, no, it didn't.

By 42, they were divorced.

What I concluded and I talk
to other people about this

who have gone through it,

I'm not sure if they feel it
as strongly as I did,

but it was like a death.

If your spouse died, you could look
back and think,

"Well, it was wonderful
while it lasted."

But in a divorce,
you can't look back and say

these are all happy memories.

You can talk to me by myself
outside,

but I'll just meet
you by the garage, OK?

All right. Bye.

Nick's son, Adam,
was ten when his parents divorced.

When he was first told,
he was terribly, terribly upset.

And then he just pulled
himself together

and didn't want to talk about it
any more.

Take it easy, Adam, the main thing
is not to crash. Really?

You don't want me to crash
right now?

How does he deal with it now?

He doesn't talk to me about it very
much at all.

He's a private person.

He's getting more mature

and he has to be very patient
with me, really.

Can you imagine having
me for a dad?

Do you think it would be
a low-pressure existence?

Hey, Graham!

Chris is my new wife.

I don't mean to be superficial,

but I think she's the most
beautiful woman I've ever seen.

And how's married life?

Well, me being very ill

has certainly made a bit
of a damper on things,

but Chris is being actually
a complete angel about it.

Over the years,
Nick's research hit trouble.

And by 42,
he was forced to abandon it.

When I was 13,
I got hold of a book...

..which said that we were really
in trouble because of pollution.

And because of this, I went
into this nuclear fusion thing.

So, I made some choices to start
working in this field

that handicapped me later.

..cos I still can't make it work.

There were scientists in essentially
the same organisation

I was in saying you cannot
build these things.

So I had to pay attention.

I had to try
and do something different.

So, the area that I'm
looking at is this times this.

I don't know why I have a compulsion
to teach, really.

It was just always there in me.

I just wanted to do it,
I thought I'd be good at it.

So, I'm hoping that will remember
me being very stupid and going,

"Ow, there's arrows."

Are you still teaching?

Yes. And my students are wonderful.

..Yes! That's really impressive...

I'm hanging in there as long
as I can with them.

It's great to be around them.
Unless they've got a cold.

And they are insisting
on coughing on me.

I try to get them
not to cough on me,

but it's a bit hard...

..hard to deflect them.

BANJO MUSIC PLAYS

What attracts you about America?

It's an exciting place to be.

There's a lot going on,
it's much easier to go out

and get things done...

..than in England.

When you came here,
was it a surprise to you?

America was quite different than
I would have expected.

What do you make of Trump?

Oh, gosh.

I don't know how much of what
he says is for effect

and how much he believes.

And that's the huge question
in my mind.

Theresa May was at Oxford
at the same time as me.

You don't get to do that
going to Bradford Poly.

You're still seeing that
people from the right public schools

continue to run the country.

Those people are not necessarily
the ones

who are most fit to run the country.

They have a superficial glibness.

They can present
themselves well on a podium,

but it's alarming that they
are the only ones who have

a clear route
to running the country.

They'd like to come out
for a holiday in the country

when we like,
when I like to holiday in the town.

BROOKE BABBLES

Do you want to take up farming?

No. I'm not interested in it.

My youngest brother, the deaf one,
if he can't do anything else,

he can probably run the farm.

But as a last resort...

It's a fixed reference point
in a sense, that sort of earthy,

life and death cycle that you get
living on a farm.

What did you learn here, do you
think, that you carried with you?

I sort of feel that you could look
deep somewhere inside me.

I feel like there's
some of this in there somewhere.

I think of it as being magnificent
but rather grim, really.

And sometimes, it's rather tragic.

But it makes other places you go
seem rather trivial as well.

I come up most weekends.

I think Chris
gets up usually in midweek.

We don't get over to England very
often, so you can count on one hand

how many times you're going to see
your family before somebody dies.

And that's getting more and more
pressing every time we come.

Have I seen you
since you lost your dad? No.

I loved my dad a lot, but he was an
old man and he was in his mid-80s.

The last time I saw him
there wasn't much left of him.

He was a tiny little frail
thing who didn't have much to say.

I don't...

OK.

You know me, Michael, I'm sure
I haven't dealt with it fully. Yeah.

WHISTLES

But it's full of emotion,
all of this.

It's all the stuff that we repress
as hard as we can, isn't it?

Yeah, it really is.

If I can change the world,
I'd change it into a diamond.

I'm still the same little kid,
really. Probably all of us are.

I think I can
relate to that little guy.

He was sort of all eager
and earnest.

Trying to answer the questions.
CHUCKLES

So, yes, I think you can tell
I'm still the same kid.

I think this film
is extremely important.

It's important to me,

but it seems to be
important to other people as well.

That doesn't make it an easy thing.

It's an incredibly hard thing
to be in.

And I can't even begin to describe
how emotionally draining

and wrenching it is just to make
the film and to do the interviews.

And that even when I'm pretending
that nobody else is watching it.

It isn't a picture, really,
of the essence of Nick,

it's a picture of every man.

It's how a person, any person,
how they change.

It's made me think about
all sorts of things more intensely

than I probably would have
otherwise.

There are lots of issues that
it raises that

I've over stewed over
over the years.

It certainly highlights
the difference

between living in America
and England.

Relationships with spouses...

It's given more intensity
and focus by being discussed.

What has been the saddest thing?

Right now,
I'm struggling with being ill

and I'm very sad for the people
who are being affected by that.

Life doesn't turn out the way
I expect.

Are you frightened about it?

Not for myself. But for them, a bit.

Yeah, I'm frightened for them.

And what about the other children?
Where are they now?

What are they doing?

I would like to get married
when I grow up.

I don't think you ought
to go to university

if you want to be an astronaut.

I'm going to work in Woolworth's.

My heart's desire
is to see my daddy.

'In 1964, Granada Television
brought together

'a group of seven-year-olds.'

When I grow up,
I want to be an astronaut.

'We have followed their lives
every seven years.'

I don't want to keep still,
cos life, you know,

don't wait for nobody.

'They talked about their dreams...'

If I could have two girls
and two boys.

'..their ambitions...'

I'd quite like to go into politics.

'..and their fears for the future.'

Life is what happens while
you're waiting for something else.

I don't think life is there
to be regretted.

You've gotta make the most of it
while you've got it.

That's how you become
the person you are.

'It's a picture of how,
any person, how they change.'

'Give me a child until he is seven,
and I will give you the man.'

Balden, let's have
the present tense of vastare.

Vasto, vastas, vast...

..vastat, vastamus, vastatis,
vastant.

Yes, speak up.

'When he was seven,
Bruce was at boarding school.'

Ten-ho!

My heart's desire is to see my
daddy, who is 6,000 miles away.

'His parents divorced.

'At the age of 11,

'Bruce moved to St Paul's School
in London as a boarder.'

You know, I'm... I've been getting
on well with my stepfather.

And I like seeing my father
occasionally.

And he does come over from Rhodesia.

At St Paul's,
I like the companionship,

you know, with other boys.

'At 21, he was at Oxford University,
studying maths.'

Well, there was one job, which I...
I'd quite like to make maps, really.

But there are very few jobs
like that going.

Chris Omalabi?
Yes, sir.

'After Oxford,
he worked in the City for a year,

'then decided to teach.

'He taught in a state school.

So, if you think it cost you 25p...

'It's so different from your own
education,

'where you're teaching now.'

'General education is better
for society, I think.

'Public schools are divisive.'

Do you understand the game?

'I think there is a class society,
and I think public schools may...

'..help its continuance.'

'At 35, Bruce took a sabbatical
and taught in Bangladesh.'

OK, because you've got to get
an X squared, OK?

I see education as a key to it all,
you know, I mean,

I think once your population
becomes educated,

it can think for itself a lot more,
and create wealth,

and create opportunities.

X, good, OK.

The straight line, yes...

'At 42, he was back in the East End,

'as head of the maths department
at a girls' comprehensive school.'

CHORAL SINGING

'At 49, we found him teaching
at St Albans.

'An independent school.'

It divides by three.
You don't multiply by three...

Divide. Divide by three.
Divide by three. OK.

'Tell me, then, what's exciting
about teaching here for you?'

'There is a higher academic level
to teach,

'and then you can see
pupils at a more developed level.'

That flash of recognition,

and then engendering their love
of the subject that they...

that I had at their age.

Do your old friends give you
a hard time about what you've done?

They certainly do, they absolutely
do, they say, you know,

"Have we joined the Tory party, the
golf club, the Masons?" You know.

Well, my girlfriend is in Africa,
and I won't,

I don't think I'll have another
chance of seeing her again.

Have you got any girlfriends?

No, no. Not yet.
I'm sure it will come.

Yes, I haven't got married,
or whatever,

and I'm supposing that, you know,

that would have been something
which I hoped had happened.

Well, you're getting on a bit,
are you getting worried?

Well, not particularly.
I mean, I'm always optimistic.

I mean, who knows who I might meet
tomorrow?

And in the middle of a conversation

about something completely
different...

..he just asked if, um...

..if I'd like to marry him. And if
I hadn't been listening carefully,

I'd have missed it completely.

To love and to cherish.

To love and to cherish.

Till death us do part.

Till death us do part.

We don't argue very much.

Not really, I mean we haven't really
had a sort of full-blown row.

I just think... Our arguments
sort of tend to be two sentences,

and I go off and sulk for 24 hours.

So, is Bruce getting any better
at expressing his feelings to you?

Um...

Mmm...

Hm...

Not...
Not really, by the sound of that.

I always say
I would never divorce him,

but I may well murder him
at some point.

INTERVIEWER CHUCKLES
Meaning what?

I mean, I have some infuriating
habits, which...

When he's travelling.
Yeah.

And he gets into arguments
with vending machines.

How has being married to Penny
changed you?

I haven't been lonely,
I've appreciated companionship.

I mean, is there a balance of power,

or do you have to run
with imbalance, or what?

Well, it's...

I wouldn't go against Penny,
life would not be...

HE CHUCKLES

..easy, after that, but, um,
you know, generally speaking,

we are in agreement
about most things.

'We may have children,
if in seven years' time or so

'we're living in a slightly bigger
house with a young family,

'that would be nice.'

Come on, then, Henry, get on.

'Bruce and Penny had two sons,
Henry and George.'

On Daddy's head!
HE COUGHS

Oh, pull out.
Cos they'll take the lead off.

He's worse than ever, Father.

'Are you ambitious for them?'

'Yeah, I mean,
some people work ferociously hard,

'and while that is rewarding,
and they enjoy that,

'and they enjoy the success
and so on,

'you just hope they get
a nice balance to their lives.

'We've always had a family holiday,
and this might be one of the last,

'because the boys are getting older,
19 and 17,

'and they might want to go off
by themselves.'

'If, in the future, were we to offer
the boys basically a free holiday,

'in somewhere exciting
like New York,

'they wouldn't turn it down.'

Oh, so we can't get away on our own?

I don't think we'll ever get away
on our own. Oh, God!

Henry?

The bagels, do you mind
getting them out of the oven?

'Most of my work life is over now,
but I am doing a little bit of work.

'I'm teaching a bit
in Penny's school now.

'But I still have plenty to do.

'Looking after older relatives,
or treasurer for the Quakers.'

Has the issue of money
been important in the household?

Well, that's partly why
I'm still working a bit,

because we have to help the boys
through university.

Each month we pay in
a certain amount

into a common sort of bank account,

and she contributes
more than I do now.

I mean, I'm quite happy to be
kept by Penny in any style to which

I happen to be,
you know, accustomed to.

OK, I just looked up on Twitter,
George, making scrambled eggs...

'And so, she's still
a successful professional?'

'Yes, I mean, she's actually
got quite an important job.

'She's head of sixth form.

'She's in charge of all the A-level
courses, all the UCAS,

'university applications.'

'Are you completely in sync
about bringing up the boys?'

'We are, generally, yes.

'We want to give them a good
moral basis, a good education.'

It's slightly irritating that
neither have got any idea

what they want to do yet,
but that's...

Well, what do you put that down to?
Is that the times they're living in?

Possibly, because in our age,
you tended to have one career.

'Are they both deeply involved
in the Internet?'

'Well, they're both on social media,

'and text, and WhatsApp,
and all that kind of thing.

'There are various things
I can do that they can't do.

'They can't change a plug
or change a light bulb,

'but I can't get on Netflix so...
Oh.

'I have to ask them to help me.'

Yes! Chase it on!

So, is he playing as much,
Bruce, as he used to?

No.

No, and when he does, he usually
manages to pull a muscle, so...

Hey, welcome to Katz's Deli.
How are you doing? Well, thanks.

You guys want waiter service,
or you wanna do self-service?

'I'm trying to get my weight down,
which is pathetic,

'but I should really adjust my diet
as well.

'There's more of a chance
of getting diabetes,

'so, I'm trying to ward that off.

'But I go to the gym, I play golf,
occasionally I play cricket,

'but that's more and more awkward
these days.'

'Is Penny on your case about this?'

'I mean, I suppose
if I asked her to kind of

'be stricter on what I was
allowed to eat, that would help.

'It's less easy to do
when the boys are at home,

'because I can't stand leftovers.'

So, I'll always finish their plates.

OK, now, if they're not there,

I wouldn't have their plates
to finish, so...

'Do you have any fears
for the future?'

'I think disabling, degenerative
conditions linked with old age.'

That... that fills me with dread.

I said to Penny, if I'm going first,
then quickly, you know.

I think discipline is fair enough.

The next farmer,
he gives me nightmares.

I suppose I was too young,
really, to understand it.

And I thought it was a bit severe
at the time,

but then I just got used to it.

In that school, and the two schools
I went after that,

I was beaten many times.

And that's just what happened.

And sometimes you didn't know why
you are being beaten,

but nevertheless it's just,
that's, that's what happened.

Ah, you're, you're a queen-pawn man.

Er, sometimes.

'I think we've
talked about this before,

'about expressing your feelings,
is that still an issue?'

'I think it is.

'Whether it's boarding school life,
or wherever it's happened to be,

'you tend to try and fit in,
and not express yourself so much,'

because that can be disruptive,

and I think, to a certain extent,
I've had a sort of restricted,

if you like, emotional state,
which I've learnt to live with.

'At 63, we took him back
to the school in the East End,

'where he started
his teaching career.'

Looking back, I, I derive most
satisfaction from teaching here.

'You had to be on your toes.
I mean, it was quite edgy.

'But, if the students felt
you were committed to them,

'and their progress, they joined in
with you and worked well.'

I think it opened up my viewpoint
to what Britain is now.

'Living in a council flat
over there,

'coming here, it was a side of
Britain I had never really been in.'

Six times three is 18,
shared by two is nine...

I was hoping that the students would
go on and have successful lives,

and fulfilled lives,
and realise their potential.

What I didn't want them to do is
thinking, because of our background,

this is what we're limited to do.

That anything was possible.

'Have you experienced failure
in any part of your life?'

'I've not had a sort of stunningly
successful education career.'

I've not, say, become
a deputy head, or head teacher,

but I never particularly wanted to,

because you tend to move out
of the classroom.

Fill out the gaps
on the board there.

I think we should give most
of our money to the poor people.

I'd help people.

If I had a chance.

Basically, we don't care that many
countries are incredibly poor,

we simply don't care, I mean...

'At 35, you seemed to have
really strong ideals.

'They were very powerful,
and powerfully expressed.'

And then, suddenly,
there's been a switch.

Well, partly,
I think it's having a family,

because when you get a family,
your priorities change,

and you start looking after
your family

more than looking further afield.

'You look back at life
and is it a good feeling?'

'Lots to look on with fondness,
and pleasure, and good memories.

'A happy marriage, and two
fine boys that we're proud of,

'and a body of work that I had
my successes with, some failures.'

But still plenty to do,
it's not all over yet.

Well, I know he is her,
and he loves her.

I don't, I love him!
THEY CHUCKLE

I'd like to be able
to have a happy family.

I mean, I know that it's not
possible to be happy all the time,

but as much of the time
that it was possible.

'By the time she was 21,
Jackie had married Mick,

'and moved to the outskirts
of London.

'She and Mick had decided early on

'that they didn't want to have
children.'

'Basically, I would say
because I'm far too selfish.

'I enjoy doing what I want,
when I want, and how I want,

'and, er...'

certainly, at the moment, I, I, I...

..can't see any way around that.

'By 35, she was divorced.'

We decided between the two of us,
we knew it wasn't going any further.

We both knew,
I think, at the end of the day,

we would be happier leading
our own lives.

And... this one on!

Oh, yeah!

'I had a brief,
very sweet relationship,

'the result of which was Charlie.'

Oi, give us a cuddle!

'I don't really want Charlie
to be an only.

'I'd love him to have brothers
and sisters.'

Right, Charlie,
please eat it all up, and James.

Thanks, Mum.
Good boy.

And last, but not least...

..are you gonna eat that one for me?

'After her relationship with
Charlie's father ended, she met Ian,

'and they moved to Scotland
and had two sons.

'By 42, they had split up.

Has Charlie shown any interest
as to his father?

No.

Ian's his father,
as far as he's concerned.

He's done everything with him,
been everything to him,

taught him everything.

Go on, Lee, go and get them.

'At 49, despite the split,

'the family were living
in the same area of Scotland.

'They are still there.'

And how the boys doing?

Really well.

They're all working away,
which is nice,

especially in this day and age.

'Charlie's still doing his cheffing.

'He seems to be happy where he is.'

There you go, Chef.

James is in a warehouse.

'Lee is still in the Army.

'He's a medic, basically.'

I've still got two boys
living at home, which I love, but...

they should really have moved on
by now.

It was really nice to see you.

This is my birthday celebration,

and I've invited family and friends,

and obviously my
beautiful grandchildren at the end.

That's Mia, that's Tyler.

My mum, because she's got five
girls,

she's had seven years bad luck,

that's why she's got five girls.

'I was 30 years old
when I lost my mum.'

And my dad was my rock.

Oh, nice!

'But as he got older,
dementia set in,

'he went in for an operation,
and he had the operation done.

'My oldest sister Jan went in.

'She rang me,
and said, "He won't talk to me."'

And I said to him,
"Dad, what are you doing?"

"What's going on,
what are you doing?"

And he said,
"I'm slowly killing myself."

And that...

..was...

that was really awful.

I have to run around
with the kids all day.

'He stopped all his medication.

'He knew... he was dying,
and he wanted to get it over with.'

He really wanted to be wherever
my mum and my step-mum and that are.

So, I imagine they had a big party
when he got there.

My mum and my step-mum might have
had a disagreement about it,

but, you know...

'Unfortunately,
on 18 November, Ian, the boys' dad,

was severely injured
in a road traffic accident.

He subsequently died
of those injuries.

That was a...

..monumental...

..mess.

'He was at a zebra crossing.

'The light to the traffic was red,

'the light on the crossing
was green.'

He walked out,
and she took him off his feet.

'Every bone in his body was broken.

'The boys were devastated.

'Charlie was absolutely terrible.

'He had to have counselling.

'In all, it was nearly
four and a half years

'before we got any justice.'

And we got a guilty verdict,
she had run him over,

and it wasn't anything his fault.

Not half bad, good.

'And did you get any compensation
out of it at the end of the day?'

'No, no. Not at all.'

The boys got...

..I think they got about
£3,000 each, that was it.

That was it.
Great, eh(?)

Yeah, yeah, that's all
their dad's life was worth.

'As much as Ian and I
didn't live with each other,

it didn't mean that we
didn't love each other.

I couldn't live with him, but...

I don't think I've ever stopped
loving him.

If you think that getting married,
as far as we are concerned,

is a case of going to work,
coming home, cook tea for hubby,

going to bed, getting up, going
to work, you're totally mistaken.

When we were younger,
I kept thinking,

"Why is he asking me
questions about...

"marriage, and men, and...?

"Why is he not asking me questions
about how the country is?"

Do you think you
settled down too young?

No. I've married,
and we do things together, or...

'But I felt that you treated us,
as women, totally different.

And I didn't like it.

Now, I appreciate that
when we started at seven,

most women were in the kitchen,
or were bringing up children.

There weren't many career women.

But by the time we hit 21,

I really thought you'd have
had a better idea of...

..how the world works, shall I say?

Did you meet enough men
before you decided who to marry?

I've been married a year, and...

But you still asked us the most
mundane, domestic questions,

and I really wanted to go, "Argh!"

So, by 49, I actually thought,
you know what, no more,

I'm not having this any more.

And that's why
I got very vocal with you.

What happened at 21?

You asked me if I'd had
enough experience with men

before I got married.

And I thought that was actually
an insulting question,

and I got very angry,
and we actually stopped filming

because of it.

I mean, I don't know!
I don't know what...

I was really angry that you even
thought you could get...

You wouldn't have asked some of
the other people in this programme

that question.

And I just didn't feel
that you had any idea...

of the changing role of women
in the UK at that point.

I've had the opportunities in life
that I've wanted.

I'd say I've had more than Susie.
You've made.

Yeah, right, you've made!

'As you get older, you realise
just how lucky you've been.

'And I do think I've been lucky.

'I walked out of school,
straight into any job I wanted.'

'Could you have done
more education?'

'Oh, yeah. And I should have done.'

All I wanted to do was go out
and earn money.

And that was short-sightedness
that did that, that wasn't...

It wasn't that I particularly
wanted to go to university,

but I probably should have done
further education.

'So, where are we?'

To get up this one, it's not so bad.

'We're in Norfolk.

'This is my sister's home.

'Both our families are grown,

'so, we get to spend
a lot more time together.

'Which is brilliant.'

James, you watch,
you're catching up to him.

'I was working up here
until very recently,

'but they've discovered
that I've got rheumatoid arthritis,

'so, at the moment
that's put work on hold.'

Are you all right?
Yeah, yeah.

Feet.
Oh!

'Rheumatoid arthritis can flare-up,

'and then it can ease down,
it can flare-up.

'And it's so frustrating.'

You just have to live with it,
Michael, you can't...

..you can't let it rule your life.

'Jackie has been getting disability
benefits for over 20 years.

'For nearly a decade,

'the Government has been reassessing
all benefits.'

'I can understand that
the Government needed to make cuts.'

They have people there who
they knew...

..would never get better, and they
still put down, "Fit to work."

'I waited nine months
for my appeal to come through.'

I had to live on £40 a week.

'I was lucky.

'I have family that could help me
with money,

'but a lot of people
haven't got that behind them.'

People were killing themselves

because they were getting into
so much debt.

I would like to get married
when I grow up.

'I've been on my own for a long
while, Michael, with the kids.

'Either men my age
don't want that hassle,

'because my kids are still at home,

'they can't move out.'

They can't afford to.

Or...

..it was just, you know, sort of
a quickie round the bike shed,

and I wasn't really wanting
that either, so...

'I actually rang my sister one day,

'and I said, "Listen, if I need
a plus one, will you come?"

'And she says, "Of course I will."

'So, everything now that I get
invited to, if Ray can make it,

'she's there.'

And we decided that we'd come up
here for a meal for Christmas.

'And we go on holidays,
and considering when we were young,

'and living at home...'

we could have hit each other
as soon as said good morning,

'but the minute she got married
and moved out,

'I was there every weekend.

'We all have ups and downs,

'and my downs are always coinciding
with me ringing Ray,

'and Ray then...'

talks to me and helps me
get through it

and sort out a way
to get through things.

I mean, what's your feeling about
having been in the programme,

and survived it?

I've done more than survived it.
I've loved it.

We're all still alive.
You know I've loved it.

Oh, good.
I have.

People always, you know, "Oh, my
God, you had a right go at him,

"what was that all about?"
And I'm like...

..I told him off.

I didn't kill him!

Jacqueline, what do you think
about boys fighting?

Well, they're...

'When you look at the Seven Up!,
do you think, "That's me"?'

Actually, I think there's
a core of it that, that's...

that rings true.

Because I've never really changed,
Michael,

I mean, you gotta be honest.

I was always talkative
and a bit of a pain in the butt.

# If I say that I love you

# And you know it's true...#

'I think your character,
perhaps, is set by seven.

'I just don't think you can predict
what that child's gonna be.

'Because I think... at seven,
your whole world's open.

'Mia now goes, "Do I have to do
homework at high school?"

And I go, "Yes."

"And then you have to do at uni."

"What's uni?"

"University, because you're going."

She looks at me, and she goes,
"Am I?"

I said, "Yeah, you are.

"Because then,
the world's your oyster."

I don't want...

..her to have tunnel vision,

which I think I had
when I was younger.

Oh, dear...
I'm feeling a bit chilly.

Really? I don't know
about anybody else, yeah.

'Children need to know that they
are capable of doing anything.'

If you open a child's mind,
to the possibilities, it's...

Oh, it's probably the best thing
you can do.

I don't think you
ought to go to university

if you want to be an astronaut.

Watch this.

'Peter and Neil were childhood
friends, growing up in Liverpool.'

'Peter went to a comprehensive
school,

'and went on to get a history degree
from London University.'

I would like to think that
democracy is here to stay.

Perhaps we haven't got
full democracy,

in fact, we probably haven't, so...

..it's a pretty good system.

I feel like I'm dragged into party
politics, you know,

basically,
it's the most incompetent,

uncaring, bloody shower
we've ever had.

'After 28 Up, Peter decided
not to continue in the film.

I pulled out because of...

..the responses
and the reactions that...

my participation drew,

particularly in the tabloid press.

They decided
they were going to portray me

as the "angry young red"
in Thatcher's England.

'I think I was articulating
at the time

'what a lot of people of my age
and my background were thinking.

'And I was an easy target.'

They're part of it,
they perpetuate it.

Was it painful coming back?
HE LAUGHS

Do you regret coming back?

Yeah, of course I do.

I'm, I am sitting here talking
to you now, and I'm squirming.

I'm squirming, I'm thinking
every two minutes or so,

I'm replaying
what I just said to you

and thinking, "Oh, my God,
you idiot, why did you say that?"

So, you know, there's that.

'So, why did you come back?'

'Because I want to promote the music
and the band I'm in.'

# But when he hit that bank... #

'I'd always played in rock bands.

'Some of them
spectacularly bad bands.

'The band has essentially
been a duo.

'It originally was a trio,

'and then we lost Frank
three years ago.'

So, we're the...

essentially the core of it,
and people come in and play with us,

and record with us,
and then drift off again.

Once Carolyn Tetford said
she was going... she loved me.

What do you think about it?

And I'm going to marry her
when I grow up.

So, what you want to do?
Do you just want...?

'We were working in an office
together,

'and we joined the office band,

'and that's how
we got to know each other.'

'Was it love at first sight?'

Well, I had a sneaking suspicion
that Pete liked me,

because he was really rude
and sarcastic to me all the time,

so, I thought, "Oh, I think
he's probably quite keen."

Oh, no, that's not true.

And how's married life been
over the last seven years?

HE LAUGHS

That's a loaded question.

If ever I heard one!

It's absolute bliss.

Totally, yeah!

MICHAEL AND PETER LAUGH

'When you live with someone
for a long time,

things change and you adapt,

'but you get to a point
where you don't have to have

'preamble conversations.'

You don't have to...
fall out, it's just not worth...

spending a long time sulking
with each other, is it?

Um, true.

SHE LAUGHS

That's why I don't do it any more!

# Always blue

# Every day... #

'Writing's just something
I feel compelled to do.'

'You've got a lot more relaxed
about playing me new stuff,

'and not getting really annoyed

'if I say,
"That might need a bit of work."'

'So, you used to be careful
about criticising him?'

Yeah.

THEY LAUGH

But you've got better about
accepting criticism as well.

A little.
SHE LAUGHS

Yeah, a little.

We met seven years ago,

what's happened to the two of you
up to now?

Three years ago, my mother died.

Frank died the same year.

In the case of my mother, that was
the normal course of events,

she was in her late 80s,
she... she'd had dementia.

But, of course, you know,

you're never old enough
to lose both your parents,

because then you feel...

"I'm next in the firing line."
HE CHUCKLES

I have to put my head
above the parapet now.

And do you have any plans
for children?

Not at the moment, no.

I haven't really thought about it
seriously.

Our son has moved out
into his own home.

He's not very far away.

Our daughter is doing a masters
at Goldsmiths in London.

And she's based at home,

but she's spending
a lot of her time in London.

Because most of the stuff
you come out of school with

is absolutely useless.

You just don't need it.

I mean, do think your children will
get the opportunities you've had,

or do you think life is closing in?

Well, I think,
just at the moment,

it appears life is maybe closing in
a little.

'I do think that the future is not
maybe as bright

'as it would have been for a kid
coming out of university,

'like me, in the late '70s.

'They're going to university,

'they're ending up
working in call centres,

'in hospitality, it's getting
hellishly difficult for them

'to get onto the property ladder.'

I think maybe they're going to be
the first generation that

don't have it better
than their parents.

Teachers are undervalued
and underrated,

And the whole,
the system is beginning to crumble.

'I still get very angry
about things.'

Probably not so much about things
going on in the house, more...

about things going on
in the wider world.

When I was seven years old,
when all this started,

it was effectively illegal
to be actively gay,

it was illegal to have an abortion,
we were still executing people.

You could put up a sign saying,
"No blacks or Irish."

And so, clearly, we've become a more
tolerant and more inclusive,

less prejudiced society
than we were.

I think it's probably a more
peaceful world than it was.

I would also say that we have a way
to go on equal treatment of women.

I was a member of the Labour Party
for most of my adult life,

I am no longer.

Tell me your feelings about Brexit.

Without wishing to sound
patronising,

I don't think a lot of them
knew what they were voting for,

I think they just saw this as a
chance to kick what they perceived

as an establishment
from which they were excluded.

I mean, obviously,
I've got to get a job,

I don't want to laze around
on the dole

for months and months,
I'd go mad.

What is your working life
at the moment?

I still work...

..two days a week in the day job,
the civil service.

'I am currently writing a novel,
midway through the first draft.

'The hardest thing has been to face
down the blank sheet of paper

'and to actually start.'

What have been, for you,
the best times?

I knew you'd ask me this,
because you're, you're gonna hope

I repeat what I said about
the 1977 European Cup final.

Tommy Smith scoring
the second goal in Rome...

..definitely.

One of the all-times.

Which game was that?

Which game was that!

HE LAUGHS

And I'm under a strict warning
not to repeat that.

MICHAEL LAUGHS
And...

That was the European Cup final,
1977.

Catch a boy, and kiss a boy.
And kiss a boy.

Sometimes catch...
We get our own back...

So, do you think these Up series
has any value?

I think it's more difficult for me

than the others to stand back
and be wholly objective about that,

because it's been part of my life
as far back as I can remember.

Last time you did the show,

I wouldn't let you look on social
media, and I censored everything,

because people can be
really hurtful.

Except the good bits.
Yeah, I let you see the good bits.

She let me see them.

Well, if I can't be an astronaut,
I'd like to be, um,

a Bridewell Sergeant in the police
force, like my dad is.

One of the concepts behind this is

"show me a child when he seven,
and I will show you the man."

Do you think that's true?

I think, as I've got older,
I'm probably more inclined

to think that
there is something to that.

I can look at myself and think,

"Yes, there is something
of that child still in me."

I think, on the whole,
you are formed

certainly before
you're in your teens.

What do you want out of life?

The satisfaction of knowing...

..that I've left
some sort of imprint.

Rather than just lived out my life.

# Someday will rise

# That silver way... #

'Are there any regrets you have?'

'I think you have to move on
with your life,

'and you learn
from things you've done,

'but that's the tapestry
of a lifetime.

'The only serious regret
I would ever have is

'if I came to the end of my life
and thought,

"I wish I'd tried that."'

# When you're blue... #

'And I want to get to the end of my
life not with that sort of regret.'

# Always blue... #

'I want to create something
that will...

'..live on, and I want my life

'to have meant something
in that sense.'

I'm going to work in Woolworths.

'Lynn grew up in
the East End of London.'

..so that it doesn't scratch
the bottom.

Why am I using a wooden spoon,
please, to stir the saucepan?

Well, in a grammar school,
I don't think you find many girls

that really want to do metalwork
or woodwork.

We had a teacher at school...

that, his favourite reply was, um,

"All you girls want to do is walk
out, get married, have babies,

"and push a pram down the street,

"with a fag hanging out
the side of your mouth."

'At 21, she began a career
as a children's librarian,

'starting off in a mobile library
in East London.

Have I stamped yours?
Yes. Yes.

I've not stamped yours.

Sleeping Beauty.

'Teaching children
the beauty of books,

'and watching their faces as books
unfold to them, is just fantastic.'

To work with children of that age,
you've got to love them,

and I love children.

'Because of cuts
in the education budget,

'the mobile library was shut down.

'At 42,
Lynn was working at Bethnal Green.'

You can draw, better than I can!

Good morning!

'When we went back at 49,
she was still there.'

What about you?
Good morning!

For the last 30 years,

I've banged my head
against a brick wall

to maintain children's services,

but this time around,
no-one's listening.

'They say that the work that I do,
that anybody can do it.

'There would be no specialist
running it.

SHE LAUGHS
One!

I may not have a job.

You can speak to me today.

'Despite the cuts, and constant
changing of jobs in the library,

'has it been worth it?'

'Yeah, very much.'

'All these things
I've said over the years

'are flowing through my mind
at the moment, um,'

but, yes, it has been worth it.

Hmm.

And you better cut it,
because otherwise I'm gonna cry.

'At that library review,
I got a job.

'Two years later, another review.'

And... cutting departments, again.

That time, I didn't get a job.

If I could, I would have,
um, two girls and two boys.

Yes, so would I.

I've been married a year and...
A couple of months.

Um, you do think,
"Christ, what have I done?"

'When she was 19, she married Russ.

'They had two daughters,
Sarah and Emma.'

I'm very much geared
to the family unit.

I mean, us all...

we do things together all the time.

'At 42, the girls were both doing
very well at school.'

All right, darling?
Yeah.

Neither of the girls
went to university?

No. No.
Was that disappointing to you?

No.
Their choice, we discussed it.

They felt that the academic side
wasn't for them.

'When Emma was 19,
she had a son, Connor.

'Nine years later, she had Riley.'

'How much did he weigh
when he was born?

'Two pounds, and a quarter ounce.

'As soon as he was born,
they took him straight through

'to the Neonatal Intensive Care
Unit, and he's absolutely fine.'

'And how's old Connor doing?'

'He's doing great.'

'How does he deal with Riley?'

'He loves Riley to bits,
but Riley is just a two-year-old.'

The hunting dogs are in this one.

'Sarah and Adam have got married
since we last saw you.

'They've got a little boy called
Harry, he's getting on fine.'

I didn't know
I was getting into this!

THEY LAUGH

Are you all right?
Yeah, I think so.

This is unbelievable.

Look, look up!

'Russ is still such
a great support for me,

'and he is still my soulmate...

Take care, I love you!

'..after all this time.'

THEY LAUGH

We've flourished together.

I had an all-white wedding.
All white.

We were both in white,
and my bridesmaid was in white.

'37 years, gone extremely quickly.

We've just grown together.

We learned to be friends
before we had children.

We established a solid foundation
from which to work from.

All right, watch it, you!
You'll go to bed as well.

'When she was 35,
Lynn was having health problems.'

'They stuck all these tubes
up inside me,

'and discovered I've got
these veins...'

up here, that shouldn't be there.

In your brain?
Mm-hm.

And what can they do about it?

Not a lot at the moment.

Well, it's never gonna go away,
I've still got this...

..brain malformation.

It will always be there.

Obviously I had it from birth.

Oh, it's just problems, Neil.

'Do you think about dying a lot?'

'No, doesn't worry me at all.

'I think my dad taught me that.

'He wasn't scared of death at all,
and...'

it's the people
that are left behind...

..that...

..take the brunt of someone dying.

So, how long ago is it
since your mother died?

Five years.
Five years? Mm.

And how long before that
did you know that she was...

in serious trouble... with health?
We didn't. We didn't.

48 hours' notice.

Not even that.
Not even that.

Very, very, very sudden.

'She was minding Riley at the park,

'and she accidentally
got in the way of the...'

the swing hit her on the...
on the arm.

She had quite a lot of bruising.

This caused a poisoning of her
system, but she self-medicated,

and went to bed
because of the pain,

when she should have been,
really, hydrating herself,

so, eventually,
her kidneys shut down.

We knew none of this was going on.

It went on from there,
it caused a domino effect.

Her organs shut down very rapidly,

and she tried to go to work
the following day,

she had a part-time job
at the hospital,

so, when she more or less collapsed
in the hospital, they admitted her.

Couldn't have chosen a better day.

'The hospital had kept telling us

'that she just needs to be
rehydrated,

'"We'll put on a drip for 48-hours."

'So, we didn't know...'

that anything sinister was going on,

and, was it three hours later,

we get the call
to say that she collapsed,

and we need to get back in.

We trusted what we were being told,
and we left her, you know,

I kissed on the forehead,

and said to her, "We'll be back
first thing in the morning."

We don't know what she went through
in those three hours.

So, yes, it's not our fault,
of course it's not,

but you do hold a lot of guilt.

They had all the pieces
of the puzzle in front of them...

..but they didn't put it together.

'We talk about her every day.

'She's there,
she's in our lives still, every day,

'but I like to focus on
the happy, the positive times.

'You know, our kids need us
to carry on and, you know,

'we've got our lives still to live,
and Mum wouldn't definitely

'have wanted us to spend it
constantly crying over her.'

'No, on a daily basis, it is hard,

'but I like to think about Mum
and memories...'

and it's only when
you start to then...

speak to other people about it,

that then the emotion kind of
really kicks in.

And I don't think I realised
just how much she was adored

by, like, the wider community
around here.

In grateful memory of Lynn,

for all that she's done
for the children of Poplar

and Tower Hamlets over 27 years,

we are both pleased, and very proud,

to dedicate this new library area
to Lynn.

APPLAUSE

'That's what she dedicated
her life to.

'35 years of looking after
the children

'in such a diverse community.

'Every child, she just gave that
time and that commitment to.'

Right, the story
I've got for you this morning

is called The Magic Bicycle.

'She loved it, and she was brilliant
at it, you know,

'she just had a way with them,
they'd just open up to her.'

CHILDREN SINGING

'The kids that she worked with,

'she'd become a governor, and then
chair of governors at the school.

'She just loved kids, basically.'

LYNN: 'There's things
we all do that...

'"Oh, I wish I'd done that
different,"

'but you take it on board, and...

'..you learn from that experience.

'My family have always come first.'

'So, for you, that's...?'

'I'm happy with the way my life
has gone.'

SHE LAUGHS

APPLAUSE

'And what about the other children?

'Where are they now?

'What are they doing?'

I read The Observer and The Times.

I feel like bundling in
when there's already a go...

when there's already a fight.

What does university mean?

When I grow up,
I want to be an astronaut,

but if I can't be an astronaut,
I think I'll be a coach driver.

In 1964, Granada Television brought
together a group of seven-year-olds.

When I grow up,
I want to be an astronaut.

We have followed their lives
every seven years.

I don't want to keep still cos life,
you know, don't wait for nobody.

They've talked about their dreams...

If I could have
two girls and two boys.

..their ambitions...

I'd quite like to get into politics.

..and their fears for the future.

Life is what happens while
you're waiting for something else.

I don't think
life is there to be regretted.

You've got to make the most of it
while you've got it.

That's how you become
the person you are.

It's a picture of how any person,
how they change.

MAN: Give me a child until he is
seven and I will give you the man.

We first met Paul
at a children's home in West London.

Along with Symon.

I thought I'm old and that,
enough to get a job.

I'll just walk around...

and see what I can find.

They say, "Where's your father,
then, you know,

"when your mum's out at work?"

And I just tell 'em I ain't got one.

When Paul left the children's home,
he moved to Australia.

Were you happy
at the children's home any more?

I didn't mind that, really, because
we didn't know what was going on

because we were a bit young.

When I was born, you know,
an illegitimate child,

you know, that's...

something
that's only whispered about.

People, you know, feel strongly
about it in those days,

but nowadays it's...

It's not a serious matter,
the serious point is,

is whether you stay with somebody
or you leave them.

My father got remarried. Erm...

And how do you get on
with your stepmum?

Pretty well, but like I said before,
I mean, I'm not, I'm just not close,

I'm not really close to
my father either.

I was gonna be a policeman,

but I thought how hard
it would be to join in.

I was gonna be a Phys Ed teacher,

but er,
one of the teachers told me that...

you had to get up into university.

As a young man, Paul spent
many years in the building trade

and then moved on into factory work.

I was gonna be a film star, but...

..now I'm gonna be
an electrical engineer,

which is more to reality, really.

By 21, Symon was working

in the freezer room of
Wall's Sausages in London.

I know I can't stay at Wall's
forever, I mean, it's just not me.

I couldn't stay there for that long,
my mind would go dead.

Do you never feel you should be
doing better jobs than these?

Aren't you worth more than this?

No, I haven't, really. I suppose
I just like hard work, I don't know.

Not really interested in

moving up... up the scale.
Why?

I don't need the hassle to be the...
charger, manager, or whatever.

Tell me,
do you have any girlfriends?

Well, not many.

What do you think about girls?
Not much.

Erm... since 21... I've got married.

Had a couple of kids. And, erm...

By 28, he had married Yvonne.
And they had five children.

What would you like to give
your children that you never had?

They've got everything that...

They've even got what I never had.

So...
Which is what?

A father, innit?

By 35, they were divorced.

All I want out of life is
to be happy, and when I say happy,

I want to be happily married
as well.

Well, what was it you fell in love
with? What was it about him?

His helplessness, I suppose,
it was the motherly instinct in me.

To pick him up and cuddle him,
and...

He's also very good-looking, I
think, but he doesn't agree with me.

And in the summer, he's got
this cute little bum in shorts.

In their 20s, Paul and Sue sold up,
bought an old van,

and travelled across Australia.

I think it brought us closer
together because, you know,

we really got to know each other
and we relied on each other so much.

I'd never been so relaxed
in my life.

I felt a lot more confident
in myself.

By the time they were 28,
Paul and Sue had two children.

Katie and Robert.

Katie did well at school
and went on to university.

The first person
in her entire family ever to do so.

Robert trained as a car mechanic.

He met Stacy
when they were teenagers

and they now have five children.

By the time he was 42,
Symon had married Vienetta.

Used to go out when we were younger.
We met in the laundrette.

Once a week.
Once a week in the laundrette.

Vienetta already had a daughter,
Miriam.

And she and Symon had a son, Daniel.

Ah-ha!

Obviously,
when children come into foster care,

family and friends are involved
as well, we have to ensure that...

By 49, Symon and Vienetta had
decided to train as foster parents.

Went to boarding school
when I was young

and I always felt that that was...

regimental.

They didn't allow for personal care,
for loving from the adult carers,

so I wanted to do
something like that for myself,

you know, in my own home.

Do you know
why Uncle Sam looks younger?

Because he's so laid back.

When we first started fostering,

we didn't even realise that you
actually got a payment for doing it.

We just did it
because we wanted to help.

About four years ago, we were told
that we'd looked after 130-odd kids.

It's a very hard thing,

but it's also magnificently easy
when it goes well.

I've still got five children.

They haven't really taken

the breakup of my first marriage
too well.

I've got still to get to grips
with that and...

get to them and make them understand
that Daddy is still Daddy.

Last year,
Symon invited his entire family

to celebrate Vienetta's birthday.

They're all together now.

They've come round and
they've seen that Dad is still Dad,

whatever's happened.

Time is the healer, isn't it?
You rush, and push, and pull.

You might be able to do
that with a parcel,

but you can't do that with a person.

It made me feel 110%, everybody
together, and everybody here for me,

it was, it was...
It was nice.

Yeah, it was beautiful.
It was nice.

So, what's happened in the last
seven years since we were here?

Grandchildren, lots of them.

So how many have you got now?
I've got ten now.

It's lovely. It just tires me out,
I haven't got the energy.

All the time.

Run! Run!

What's happened in the family
in the last seven years?

Got another grandchild.

Brody. So there's six.

Talk nicely to him.
Hey, Benny, Benny.

Katie's a school teacher.

She has a man in her life now.

Very nice chap,
which we're pleased about.

Hopefully, more grandchildren.

No pressure (!)

Look at that.
They do look very happy

in all that mud, don't they, Shane?

The fact we've been married
for 40 years

is just really a fluke, really,

you know, like, no,
but what I mean is we've tried hard

and that's part of the success,

but you don't know
when you're gonna get married

that it's gonna succeed and
go for 40 years, you have no idea.

You can see Windsor Castle
from that house.

SUE: Oh, look at that.

We don't see each other...

Over the years, Paul and Sue
have met up with Symon and Vienetta

when visiting family in England.

SUE: Come on,
let me get you organised.

But now, for the first time,

Symon and Vienetta
have come to Australia.

Hello!
Hello.

We got on really well
when we visited them in England.

SUE: I think
Symon and Paul are very similar.

Symon's very creative,
sort of artistic.

A beautiful person to be around.

And Vienetta, well, her and I are
just two peas out of the same pod.

I just think it's a wonderful
thing to be able to invite them

and they be able to come out here

because it's not like it's just
across the road, it's a big trip,

and they're gonna share Christmas
with us and our family.

Would your life
have been totally different

if you'd had the chance Paul had
to come to Australia?

For me then,
it probably would have been better.

To actually try and figure it out
now, would it have been better?

I wouldn't wanna say
because your life is as it is,

so not as it could be.
Yeah.

I don't like the big boys hitting us

and the prefects sending us out,
out for nothing.

And this park, I remember this park,
but I've never walked down it...

At 21, when Paul was in London,
we decided to take him and Symon

back to the children's home.

Why were you there?

I believe
it was a divorce custody dispute.

Most children at that age, if they
were taken away from their parents,

they wouldn't be overly happy.

No.

Did you get to see
much of your parents?

I can only vaguely remember
my dad coming...

..to visit every now and then.

I was there for about six years.

And the only thing
I really, really missed was my mum.

She was everything to me
and she wasn't there.

Remember the tiles?

She couldn't cope with the situation
of having to look for me

and she didn't have
a place of her own at the time.

Remember Midgey?
He was a real bastard.

'You felt that you were kept
in order all the time.'

'Kids did get the cane if they were
caught doing anything wrong.'

So did you get caned?
Not that I can remember.

I was a very, very good boy.
LAUGHTER

He was the tailor.

I remember him.

I didn't get a lot of cuddles,

and affects you,
the way you treat your kids,

in as much as you try to do it more,

but you probably don't do it
as much as some other people do.

I wanted to love my children,

but I used to try to give them
discipline instead.

Instead of...

just giving them the little hugs
and stuff they needed,

that I knew they needed
because I needed it.

The headmaster's son used to shoot
the squirrels off the trees.

'I definitely felt insecure.
I can still remember that.'

I-I didn't feel insecure...

when I was being told be here,

be there, do this, do that.
Yeah.

Where I felt insecure
was outside of all of that.

You can't believe
after so many years

that things have really not changed
all that much, you know?

Paul took Symon to
the children's home where he lived

when he first arrived in Australia.

So, how old were you
when you first came here?

I was somewhere between seven
and eight years of age, I would say.

We pretty much landed
in Australia...

wasn't all that long
before my father arranged for us

to come up here and live.

And how was it to be here?

The best childhood memories
I've got is of being up here.

Why didn't he take you home
to live with them?

Well, I think
Dad was a coat and dress designer,

and they were also
trying to set a house up,

and that's just the way
that they chose to do it.

My dad, despite...

..what other members of the family
might have...

He was a good man,
he was a kind man.

He was strict, but he was kind.

You know, I was always frightened
of everything as a young child

and I think it,
you know, slowly but surely

it just slowly
brought me out of myself.

Like Paul,
I was very shy when I was young

and I think
this place would give you

the confidence
to do things for yourself.

I think my main weakness is
I don't really take a grip of life.

I know if I ever wanted to get on,
I could do it.

I think what it is, really, I'm just
waiting for an excuse to use it.

This one just there.
Yeah, yeah.

Both the wives say that
you both lack confidence.

The lack of confidence,
you sort of second guess yourself

or question yourself all the time.

Just like just now, I noticed
we both looked at each other

because we both knew
exactly what we were going to say.

But we waited, we waited
for the other one to say it. Yeah.

What's been the saddest, toughest
time for you in your life so far?

Oh, I think early years,

going away from the home
and going to the boarding school,

and living away from home here
as well.

Here's Granddad.
Hey.

My father died
approximately four years ago.

That was very sad.

He was the one constant in my life.

Sorry.

Even though
I knew my mum wasn't well at all

and she was probably dying,
I still felt she'd be there forever.

When she actually died, there were
so many things that I never asked.

Why did you not marry Dad
or stay with him?

So there were so many things that...

were left unsaid.

Say you had a wife...

say you had to eat
what they cooked you,

and say I don't like greens -
well, I don't.

One of the fundamental premises
of this series of films

is you can see the man
in the seven-year-old child.

Basically, what you see is

a seven-year-old shy, not very
confident, worried about everything,

that's what I was like... then

and, and to a great degree,
still like that.

I'm not making light of
what I have achieved,

but I wasn't going to make
any wonderful achievements.

I think that was pretty obvious
I was going to be just a worker.

Hiya, Paul. How are you?

OK, everybody, tucker's ready!
Anyone for some food?

Do you have any regrets?

There's just no place
for regrets in this world.

But I mean,
I've been lucky, meeting Susan,

I've been with her
longer than I was with my dad.

And she's been an unbelievable
influence on my life.

Getting me to see the positive side
of things, rather than the negative.

Maybe one regret is probably
would have liked more children.

I feel OK just getting on with life.

Just sort of keeping up.

But, er, I know if
I really wanted to, I could get on.

The sooner
you understand who you are,

the sooner
you understand what you can do.

It's taken me... virtually
60 years to understand who I am.

When I leave the school,
I'm going to College Court.

And then I will be going to
Westminster boarding school

if I pass the exam.

And then we think I'm going to, erm,
Cambridge and Trinity Hall.

John went to Westminster.

Then on to read law
at Christchurch, Oxford.

I do believe parents have
a right to educate their children

as they think fit. I think someone
who works on the assembly line

and some of these car factories,
earning a huge wage,

could well afford to send

their children to private school,
if they wanted to.

At 21, we asked him
what career he would pursue.

Might be at the bar.

Doing what?

Perhaps chancery practice.

I now have a career.
I'm a barrister. Erm...

Other than that,
life chugs along in varying degrees.

Well, in a sense, not very much
has changed in my career

over the last 14 years,

I'm still a barrister,
I still wear a curly white wig.

Erm, the only visible difference,
I suppose,

is I wear a silk gown
because I'm now a QC.

What's changed in your life
since we last talked?

Seven years older,
seven years fatter. A bit less hair.

I mean, nothing much, really.

I mean, you know, on
a more serious level, I'm still...

A barrister, a QC.

When boys go around with girls,

they don't pay attention
to what they're doing.

My grandmother had an accident

because her boyfriend was kissing
his girlfriend in the street.

By 35, John had married Claire,

the daughter of
a former ambassador to Bulgaria.

It is coincidental that we met,
but it's obvious that

the Balkan connection
was a strong mutual interest.

It is a great pleasure
to welcome you all here tonight

on behalf of Friends of Bulgaria.

My mother, in fact, is from Bulgaria
and that explains why for me,

Bulgaria is
an especially important place.

The hounds are over there, I think.

DOGS BARK

I think the more
you've had out of the country,

the more privileges you're born
with, the greater your duty is.

I still feel as I did when I was 21
that it's important for

people who have had advantages
to try and put as much back

and to help others less fortunate
than themselves if they can.

Recently, I think
this charity, Friends of Bulgaria,

is something
that's very important in my life.

When we first came,
the country really was on its knees.

I remember we were taking
basic things, like anaesthetics,

round to hospitals,
and blood supplies.

And all of that's changed.

Bulgaria's been in the EU now
since, erm,

I think about 2006
and it's slowly catching up.

BELL CHIMES

We're in Veliko Tarnovo, which is
the medieval capital of Bulgaria.

And Friends of Bulgaria, the charity
of which I'm now chairman,

we have various projects.

We are here to see how
those projects are going along.

This plaque here
commemorates my great-grandfather,

who's sitting in the front row.

By then, he'd already been
a leader of the revolution

against the Turks in Plovdiv,

and actually, he'd been condemned
to death because he was captured.

He also did an awful lot
for charity.

I'm sure he keeps me up to my mark.

I do feel I'd like to continue
the tradition of doing good things

to help people here, even if I don't
quite have his means personally,

it's on a more modest scale.

I feel I could go on forever,

but the trouble is
many of my solicitor clients

are themselves retiring

and, you know, the worry is
I'll end up with no clients.

So no clients, no cases.

So as I understand it, we're going
to meet three of the children who...

So what would you do
when it comes time to retire?

I won't be bored.

I love travel.

We're still riding, still enjoying
the English countryside.

I did have a terrible fall
from a horse about two years ago

so that was dicing with death,
I had a brain haemorrhage

and, erm,
that was definitely unfunny.

I can still play the piano a bit.
I'm not as good as I used to be.

A very nonchalant little theme.
You know?

Butter wouldn't melt in its mouth.

Whether it's old age and arthritis,

or whether it's falling off horses
too many times,

I don't know,
but I mean, I don't feel I've got

quite the dexterity
in my fingers.

Certainly I can never tell
the difference between you playing

and the CD playing
when I'm out of the room.

Yeah, very good. Very good.

Well, she's very diplomatic.
No, no, it's true.

Are you ambitious?
Yes.

What for?
Well, fame.

And power.

What sort of power?
Political power.

I'd quite like to go into politics,
but I mean, that's, you know,

easier said than done.

I don't know why I felt like that,
but I did

and maybe it's because
all the Bulgarian ancestors

were all prime ministers
and things like that.

But I mean, the truth is I've been
a big disappointment to myself

because, erm...

I've decided not to throw my hat
into the ring for politics.

And I don't have any regrets,
if the truth be told.

How do you think England
will change over the next few years?

Not very much.

England is too English,
if you see what I mean.

People who have had things going
well for them really ought to stay

and sort of help the country out
when it's, you know,

things aren't going very well.

I don't believe in
all this pulling one's money out.

Where do you stand on Brexit?

I don't mind saying I voted remain.

I can't say I'm a fantastically
enthusiastic European

wearing my English hat.

But on the other hand,

I thought it was a leap into the
dark that we didn't need to take.

WOMAN SPEAKS BULGARIAN

I blame quite a few politicians.

I suppose I blame David Cameron

because I think the decision
to hold a referendum was a mistake

and it's much too complicated
a question

to submit to
a simple yes or no answer.

I think it's not a bad idea to pay
for schools because if we didn't,

schools would be
so nasty and crowded.

The world now is very different
from what it was when we were seven.

I think there were...

inequalities in British society
at that stage,

which I must say
I don't see any more.

'Something I did slightly object to
in the programmes,

'we were shown at the age of seven'

outlining sort of
the academic sort of career

that most of us did in fact pursue,
you know.

It was presented
as if it was just part of

some indestructible birthright that
we went to all of these places

and I thought that was unfair
and it didn't show us

sort of having to do beastly jobs
in the holidays.

If you're talking about people
from my background, I think...

life is probably more difficult
for them

because there's more competition.

So many more people
go to university,

no-one cares at all
what background people go to.

People recruit to get
the best people for the job

that they have to offer.

Sean McEnessie
got three minuses in a day.

And he's a pest.

'It has to be said that
I bitterly regret that

'the headmaster of the school
where I was when I was seven

'pushed me forward for this series.'

Because every seven years,

a little pill of poison
is injected into, erm...

I know.
Well, that's, that's...

Well, it's the truth.

I'm much more down to earth as
a person than I might have ended up

when I was seven.

And that was probably
because, you know,

I did a year and more in the Army
before going up to Oxford

and, you know,
there were various things

that introduced me
to the real world.

Whereas, I could have been stuck
in an ivory tower.

What viewers were never told is that
my father died when I was aged nine,

leaving my mother

in very uncomfortable
financial circumstances.

She had to go out to work...

to see us through school
and that, you know,

I got a scholarship to Oxford.

You know, I don't regard myself
as particularly typical of the type

that I was no doubt
selected to represent.

I mean, apart from anything else,
I'm three quarters foreign,

which is an odd beginning for...
well, one of the papers described me

after 21 as
the archetypal Tory squire.

What's the most important thing
in your life?

My wife,
my family and friends.

My homes. If I'm allowed a fourth,
I'd say my animals.

How do you think you've changed
since you were seven?

Well, I mean, one grows
so slowly that one never notices.

Any regrets about decisions
you've made in your life?

No, I can't say that.

But it's not really my character,

I always try and make
the best of everything,

even if it's not
the best situation you're in.

SINGING IN BULGARIAN

PIANO MUSIC

Do you have any boyfriends, Suzy?

Yes.

He lives up in Scotland.

And I think he's 13.

Have you got any boyfriends, Suzy?

What is your attitude
towards marriage?

Well, I don't know, I mean,
I haven't given it a lot of thought

because
I'm very, very cynical about it.

I was the only child going through
their parents splitting up aged 14,

all at a very vulnerable age
and it does cut you up.

But there's no point in them
staying together for me

because it was worse, I mean,
the rows, and... it's, it's worse.

When I last saw you at 21, you were
nervous, you were chain-smoking,

you were uptight,
and now you seem happy.

What's happened to you
over these last seven years?

I suppose Rupert.

I'll give you some credit.
Thank you. I'm now chain-smoking.

I'm not very children-minded
at the moment

and I don't know if I ever will be.

What do you think about them?
I don't like babies.

What was the biggest shocks to you

when you suddenly were confronted
with a small baby?

The panic set in, I think, that
I wasn't going to be able to cope.

We were lucky, we had a very good
family unit with them growing up

and that meant an awful lot to me,

that I was able to do that for them
because I never had it for myself.

What do you think about
making this programme?

I just think it's just ridiculous,
I don't see any point in doing it.

There's a lot of baggage that gets
stirred up every seven years for me

that I find quite, that
I find very hard to, to deal with.

I don't know what happened.

I was quite adamant
I wasn't going to do it.

And then...

SHE SUCKS HER TEETH

I don't know, I suppose I have this
ridiculous sense of loyalty to it.

Even though I hate it.

Hello.

Suzy decided not to take part in
63 Up.

When I grow up,
I want to be an astronaut,

but if I can't be an astronaut,
I think I'll be a coach driver.

This is probably linked up with
the fact I want to travel.

I mean,
my thoughts haven't really changed.

Although I definitely wouldn't like
to be a coach driver now.

Watch this.

Neil grew up in a Liverpool
suburb with his friend Peter

and had dreams of going to Oxford,
but didn't get in.

Instead,
he went to Aberdeen University,

but dropped out
after the first term.

At 21, Neil was working on a
building site and living in a squat.

I would like to be somebody
in a position of importance

and I've always thought this.

Erm... But I don't think
I'm the right sort of person

to carry the responsibility
for whatever it is.

I always thought,
well, I'd love to be...

..possibly love to be in politics

or something like this.

At 28, we found Neil homeless,

wandering around
the west coast of Scotland.

If the money runs out,
well, then for a few days,

there's nowhere to go to,
that's just, that's all you can do.

I simply have to find
the warmest shed I can find.

At 35, he was living
in a council estate

on the most northerly part of
Britain, the Shetland Islands.

What would you like to be doing,
say, in seven years?

I can think of all kinds of things
that I'd like to be doing.

The real question is what am I,
what am I likely to be doing?

What are you likely to be doing?

NEIL SCOFFS
That's a horrible question.

Erm... I tend to think
the most likely answer is that

I'll be wandering homeless
around the streets of London.

Can I just point out some
of the considerable disadvantages?

Erm, first of all,
they are geographically...

At 42, Neil had moved to London

and was a Liberal Democrat
on Hackney Council.

While I was in Shetland,
I felt very strongly that

I should become involved in politics
simply because I felt

I was not achieving anything in the
ways I really, I really wanted to.

By 49, Neil had left London,

moved to Cumbria
in the north-west of England,

and was a Liberal Democrat member
of his local district council.

Neil Hughes is
the Liberal Democrat candidate.

I and the Liberal Democrats

want to see a just and fair society,
in which everyone...

In 2006, I was invited to go
to Australia to give a talk.

And the chap who introduced me said,

"Neil is clearly such
a profoundly-motivated politician

"that we can all expect to see him

"as Prime Minister of
the United Kingdom."

Now, this wasn't a joke,
I assure you.

He said this with absolute
seriousness. Now, it was ludicrous.

But this is how wildly-skewed
the perceptions have become.

I mean, do you think I really would
have been invited to Australia

if they were aware that

I was someone who lives on
a few quid a week benefit

and has as much chance of changing
the future of the United Kingdom

as someone who's serving
a lifetime jail sentence?

I'm not for an instant

under the impression that
politics was always completely moral

and so obviously there have always
been issues, but it's very sad that

so few people now feel that
politics has any answers for them.

They don't see anything in any of
the political, erm, affiliations.

Those who protest
outside abortion clinics,

if they do so peacefully,
are actually protesting...

'As long as I can still remember
what I'm going to say

'when I stand up in council,
which isn't guaranteed,

'then I'll, I'll keep doing it
for a bit.'

Where do you stand on Brexit?

It's quite
an unbelievable occurrence.

It's as if you're asking
everybody in Britain to take poison

and say they thought
it was for their good health.

So cheers (!)

INTERVIEWER LAUGHS

The vote wasn't
a vote to leave the European Union,

it was a vote against all
politicians from whatever parties,

and against the deteriorating
society we live in.

I don't think, erm,
I was really taught

any sort of policy of living at all
by my parents.

This is probably
the biggest mistake,

that I was just left
to fend myself in a world

which
they seem completely oblivious of.

I mean, what's your feeling
towards your parents,

both of whom I know passed away?

It's not resentment.

Er, they did their very best.

I don't say this cruelly, a problem
within their own personalities,

which caused me unending difficulty.

My father, very serious,
very secretive.

He could be very harsh
in the punishments he gave out.

My mother, completely different,
utterly superficial.

A genuine lover of the arts,

but as much of a dilettante
as you could possibly imagine.

So she knew
a little about everything,

but not a great deal about...

..about very much.

And did you ever have it out
with your father?

Oh, many arguments, yeah.

More often than not,
my father would just sit in silence.

And my mother would talk,
but it was mostly to herself.

When I get married,
I don't want to have any children

b-because...

they are always doing naughty things
and making the whole house untidy.

Children inherit
something from their parents

and even if my wife were the most,
erm, high-spirited, and ordinary,

and normal of people,

the child would still stand a very
fair chance of being not totally,

er, full of happiness

because what he or she
will have inherited from me.

What's happened in your life
in the last seven years?

Oh, that, that takes us back to,
er,

when I met my current wife.

Erm, and, erm, er...

And four, four or more years
of happy marriage and then, er,

an unfortunate
series of occurrences, I suppose,

which means we don't see each other
very often now.

How did you two meet?

Well, I was performing
in the village pantomime

and she came along and watched it.

We courted in the same way that
any two 20-year-olds would court.

We walked along the River Tees
at Stockton.

There was a lovely restaurant down
there that, erm, we used to eat in.

But we did a lot of lovely things
together.

I don't for a minute regret
that partnership.

I'm just sorry that for reasons
I will never fully understand,

it, it, it's got to where it is.

My tendency to get in low moods
was not helpful to her.

I quite understand that.

Although she was well aware of that
when we got married.

I made some very...
strenuous attempts to reconcile us.

We met a couple of times this year.

And I was hoping that
things might improve,

but they don't seem to have done.

But as far as I'm concerned, there's
time for her to, to reconsider.

Mm.

Whether that'll happen,
I don't know.

Do you worry about your sanity?

Other people sometimes worry
about it.

Like who?
I sometimes can be found

behaving
in, in, in an erratic fashion.

Erm, sometimes
I get very frustrated, very angry.

Are you having any medical
treatment for your mood changes?

No, I haven't for many years.

Because
I wouldn't like to be dependent

upon man-made substances for a cure.

Do you ever think you are going mad?

I don't think it, I know it.
Er, I, erm...

woke up with...
HE SIGHS

We're not allowed to use
the word mad, but, erm...

You know. I think most people
are mad here, really.

It's incredibly difficult
to talk about.

Nobody wants to confess that they
suffer spells of mental ill health.

Sometimes, if I'm feeling...

particularly depressed,
particularly...

There are some situations in which
I do want somebody to speak to me,

but there are many situations

in which actually, I want to be left
alone till I am feeling better.

And I think that
this is perhaps the point

my wife found it particularly hard
to, erm...

Because I did say to her,
say something to me

if you can see I'm depressed,

but don't keep on saying it,
just leave me alone after that.

In the winter,
if you lived in the country,

well, it would just be all wet

and there wouldn't be anything
for miles around.

And you'd get, and you'd get soaked
if you tried to go out.

And there's no shelter anywhere.

I don't see any way out. I thought
of everything I possibly could.

It seemed to me for a long time
that getting a reliable job,

a nice place to live
would be the solution.

Well, I haven't succeeded.

Erm... I can't see
any immediate future at all.

Neil still lives in Cumbria,
but he's bought a house in France.

So, how long have you had the house?

Two and a half years.

My wife found it
on a website for properties.

She persuaded me that it was
the one that would suit me the best.

And how did this come about?

After my mother died, there was a...

..a legacy divide
between my brother and I.

And some of it was able
to be put towards this house.

So, tell me
what this place means to you.

It's, it's just a lovely,
quiet place in the country.

I've, I've lived much of my life
in rural places in the past.

I think rural places have a lot
of shared values, wherever you go.

People tend to look after
one another better.

Communication is easier.

And you'll get good local food
and country activity,

and so on, that sort of thing.

But I do miss the towns
and the cities sometimes as well.

I miss London, where I lived.

I think if you're healthy
and have good friends,

you can get on perfectly well.

But everybody would like to be rich.

If the state didn't give us
any money...

it would probably just mean crime.

And I'm glad I don't have to steal
to keep myself alive.

How do you manage for money
these days?

I'm lucky in that what I earn
from being a county councillor

is sufficient for
my standards of living.

SHOPKEEPER: Bonjour.

Bonjour.
Je voudrais, s'il vous plait,

acheter quelque pommes de terres
et quelque pommes.

So, since I've been doing that,

I haven't needed to claim
any state benefits.

And what a great relief it was
not to have to do that.

SHOPKEEPER SPEAKS IN FRENCH

So, are you frightened
of getting old?

I do have concerns. I've always
relied on my body very much.

Whatever else has been going on,

I've generally been
in excellent physical health.

I never really seriously believed
when I was a teenager

that I'd be a pensioner because
it just seemed so implausible.

Despite the fact everybody
who gets the chance does grow old.

I regret having reached
the age I'm at,

I've had no success in the sphere
I really want to be successful in.

Being a writer, my instinct

is very much about interaction
with the rest of society,

which in my case just hasn't
happened, it simply hasn't happened.

Yes, I'd say I believed in God.
Are you religious?

Well, I go to church with my parents
on Sundays.

Oh, I don't know even now
whether I do believe in God or not.

I've thought an awful lot about it,
actually.

And, er, I still don't know.

And how has He been treating you?
NEIL LAUGHS

Well, I said to somebody
last week that

I preferred the Old Testament
to the New Testament

because in the Old Testament,
God is very unpredictable.

Er, and that's, I think,
how I've seen Him in my life.

CHURCH BELL CHIMES

If you haven't already been told,

the proposed pet show
is unfortunately cancelled.

DOG WHIMPERS
I'm a lay minister.

I'm licensed to carry out
quite a number of functions.

That includes leading services,

preaching,
taking part in the readings,

helping to distribute
the communion, and so on.

In fact, I can do more or less
everything a priest can do.

In the name of the Father,
and of the Son,

and of the Holy Spirit...
ALL: Amen.

Are you still doing that work?

I've just recently been re-licensed

as a reader
in the Church of England.

The title reader is really...

that of lay preacher.

CHURCH BELL CHIMES

SINGING IN FRENCH

I wake up every day and
I don't know what's going to happen.

I don't know where I will be
in a month's time, six months' time,

a year's time.

But my Christian faith helps me.

SINGING IN FRENCH

It's made a great deal of difference
to my life.

I would say I've clearly experienced
beneficial effects,

but... that's not
what religion is about.

Everybody hopes they do get
beneficial results from it,

but really, it's more about
having the relationship with God.

In Christianity, that's through
Jesus Christ and His teaching.

Every time this programme starts,
it says,

"Give me a child until he is seven
and I will give you the man."

Mm.
Is that true or false?

You're probably in a...
you and the audience

are probably in a better position

on the evidence
that's been presented.

We don't do much fighting in school

because, because we think
it's horrible and it hurts.

You get certain different types
of people.

People with different sorts of
brains, you know.

From the very sort of,
very clever people to, you know,

people who haven't got much sense
at all, really.

I wonder why I was like that.

I wonder what it was inside me
that made me like that.

And I can see even at 14 then,
I was beginning to get more subdued

and I was putting a lot more thought
into what I was saying...

to a ridiculous degree.

I mean, you were the classic example

of it not being true.
At 7 and 14...

Mm.
..everybody was in love with you.

Yeah.
You were...

And now nobody speaks to me.
Well, I'm sure they do.

But, you know, your own life went
into a kind of freefall, somewhat.

I don't know
what sort of stumbling blocks

should be put in, in a child's way

to get him used to living
in the outside world.

Because I think maybe this is,

this is something
that was wrong in my upbringing,

I didn't have enough obstacles
to get over,

to toughen myself up against.

The change of you at 14...
Mm.

..to the change of you at 21...
Yeah.

..on the building site
was staggering.

How can you explain
that vast change?

I thought differently,
I had different aspirations.

I wasn't content with
a quiet, domesticised life.

I had to go out and...
and seek adventure.

And it had its downside

because I hadn't really been well
prepared for it in, in my childhood.

What's the happiest time you've had?

I'm just happy
when something goes right

and it can be
something very straightforward.

If I can get something done for
somebody through my council work,

then I'm genuinely happy.

And in my church work,

if I think I'm genuinely
communicating something

to people about God,
then that delights me inside.

Before I ever met my wife,

I did have
a very serious relationship

with an Australian girl, with who
I can say truly the only person

I was ever really deeply in love
with.

And I think she...
she felt similarly towards me.

And she said to me eventually,
she said,

"This is an impossible situation,

"not because of
what we feel for each other,

"but because we live so far apart."

SINGING IN FRENCH

The idea of true love, which
I do think exists, occurs so seldom.

You know,
it occurs once in somebody's life,

if they're extremely lucky.

For it then to happen

and then the potential
can't be fulfilled is heartbreaking.

SINGING IN FRENCH CONTINUES

We-e-e-e-e!

At the end of
their very special day in London,

after their trip
to the zoo and the party...

..we took our children
to an adventure playground,

where they could do
just what they liked.

Those from the children's home
set about building a house.

There's Nicholas.

And Tony.

Andrew.

John.

And Bruce.

Jackie and her friends.

Give me a child until he is seven
and I will give you the man.

This has been
a glimpse of Britain's future.

Subtitles by TVT