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_
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We kept Durst down here.
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He had the TV up there.
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He had one shower.
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There's two cells
for two people,
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but he was always in here
by himself.
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He slept in that cell.
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Durst: In prison,
you're not going to get
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a whole bunch
of rich people in there.
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I mean,
most people in prison are from lower,
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lower income families,
not educated.
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I got along
with those people well.
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They all treated me
with enormous respect.
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I was Mr. Bob in prison.
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What they accomplished
in their lives,
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whatever it might have been,
they accomplished on their own.
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I'll never do anything
on my own.
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It'll always be this thing
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or all this money
or whatever it is.
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No matter what I do in my life,
I will have started out rich.
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60-year-old Robert Durst
sits in a Texas jail now
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charged with the gruesome death
of his neighbor two years ago.
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Male reporter: Texas authorities
aren't the only ones
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interested in Durst.
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In New York,
police continue to investigate
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the 1982 disappearance
of his first wife Kathleen,
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and police in Los Angeles
also want to talk to him
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about the unsolved murder
of friend Susan Berman
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in December of 2000.
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I got a case,
but I can't prove it quite yet,
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and for New York,
they got a case.
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They... They ain't got a body,
and, uh, but to us,
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it was Galveston
had the best of all cases.
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Robert Durst is charged in Texas
with the murder of Morris Black,
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not only murdering him,
but dismembering him
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and throwing his body
in the Galveston Bay.
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They had the evidence.
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The conviction
would be gotten in Texas.
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Durst dismembered the body,
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put it in garbage bags,
and threw it in the river.
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I mean, how do you defend this?
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It would seem to be a home run
for the prosecution.
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Joel Bennett: Robert Durst
shot and killed Morris Black,
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dismembered him,
and threw him away like trash.
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That was our focus.
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Nobody deserves to be killed
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and their head cut off,
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their arms cut off,
their legs cut off,
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and packaged up like garbage.
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Kurt Sistrunk:
The evidence, the totality
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of the circumstances of this
case pointed us to one charge
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and one charge only,
and that was murder.
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Male reporter: Legendary
Texas lawyer Dick DeGuerin
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heads the billionaire's
high-powered defense team.
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I think it's a beautiful
day in Galveston.
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That's all I can say.
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DeGuerin: I always
get nervous before a trial.
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I always worry about
maybe there's something
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I should have done I didn't do,
and often I'm right about that.
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Michael Ramsey: There were
moments where you kind of
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gagged on what you had
gotten yourself into.
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We've got a guy cut up
in 20 different pieces
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thrown in a bay,
and they're expecting us to win this case.
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Sundown on the sorry day
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By night lights,
the children pray
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I know you're probably
getting ready for bed
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Beautiful woman,
get out of my head
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I'm so tired
of the same old crud
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Sweet baby,
I need fresh blood
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Whoo!
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Howl!
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Howl!
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Sync, corrected by icephoenix
www.addic7ed.com
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_
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[Wind blowing]
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Good? 3, 2, 1. 3, 2, 1.
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[Camera shutters clicking]
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Female reporter: An eccentric
New York real estate heir
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is on trial in Texas.
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Male reporter: In a Galveston court,
Robert Durst
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is looking back at a murky past
catching up to him.
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This has been the last
20 years of my life,
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and it's beginning
to have closure.
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Susan Criss:
We were getting requests
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from so many media
from around the country...
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People magazine
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and the New York papers
and television stations,
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and, of course,
you have your local media,
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You have your TV stations
from Houston.
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Charles Bagli: The Post
had a stringer there.
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AP was in there.
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The Daily News
sent over an editor.
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I mean,
everybody saw it as a big story.
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Female reporter: The tabloid press
can't seem to get enough
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of the multi-millionaire
accused of murder.
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_
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Eleanor Schwank:
So I go to the courtroom,
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and at some level,
I felt sorry for Bob.
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I mean, he looked at me.
He gave me this little smile.
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It wasn't a malicious,
"Ha ha! I'm gonna get you next" smile.
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it was just kind of like this
little smile of recognition.
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I never forgave him
for murdering Kathie.
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It was just some element
of feeling sorry for him.
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His life just unraveled
to such a pitiful degree.
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Bailiff: All rise, please.
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[Footsteps]
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Good morning.
You may all be seated.
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Criss: Ladies and gentlemen
of the jury, the defendant
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Robert Durst stands charged
by indictment
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with the offense of murder.
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The defendant has pleaded
not guilty.
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We're ready to proceed.
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Morning.
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The burden of proof
is on the state
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to prove to you
beyond a reasonable doubt
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that Robert Durst intentionally
shot and killed Morris Black.
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Look at these pictures.
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This is what Mr. Durst
did to Morris Black...
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Cut the skin all the way to the bone,
pulled the...
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Pulled the tissue
and the muscle back,
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get to the bone, and saw it off.
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Flipped the body over
a couple of times because,
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"I got to get around
the other side, too,
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"and I got to do the legs.
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Then I got to do the head"...
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motivated to get away
with murder.
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Chris Lovell: I'd never seen
anything like that, you know?
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So you think, you know,
it's no big deal, but it's...
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Uh, it's... It's shocking.
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Joanne Gongopa: At the start,
what I felt in my gut was,
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it was a murder because he had
to get rid of the evidence
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by cutting him up and throwing
him in the Gulf or whatever.
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Female reporter: Two local
officers were called
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to the stand today,
one a diver for the Galveston County
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Sheriff's Department
who talked about where Morris Black's
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body parts were found
in Galveston Bay.
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Kevin Hynes: Sitting back
in New York watching this
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with my colleagues, I would say,
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"Well, what's his defense
going to be?"
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and they would
almost unanimously say,
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"It doesn't matter what his
defense is because he's guilty
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"and they're going to find him
guilty because he cut up
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the body and, therefore,
he's going to be found guilty,"
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and all I would say is, "Look.
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"The guy's got
unlimited resources.
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"He's got a very smart lawyer.
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It's a publicity case.
He's gonna have some defense."
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Bob has feelings.
This is his first girlfriend.
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He'd been carrying that picture
with him.
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He had it when he was arrested.
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That's the pictures of his wedding,
he and Kathie.
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He had them
when he was arrested.
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And there's a picture of Bob
as a young boy.
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He had them
when he was arrested.
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Ramsey: When I first met Bob,
he was not loud.
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He was not even
terribly responsive,
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but he had an intelligence.
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He had some wit to him.
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He's disheveled.
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He's been through the mill.
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He's been held in circumstances
in which he's never been,
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but you have to look past that
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and see this lump of clay here
that I'm going to have to mold.
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Has it got the capacity
to be molded into the shape
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that I want it to be in
by the time we get to a jury?
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I thought he was going to make
a pretty good defendant.
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_
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_
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Sistrunk: When
the defense opened their case
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and called Durst
as a first witness,
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I was shocked.
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_
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Criss: They had
to explain why he was on the run
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before he even killed
Morris Black.
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He was living on the run,
so to speak, when he came here.
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He's hiding out.
He's wearing disguises.
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He's living
this bizarre lifestyle.
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_
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Bagli: The people
who actually live in Galveston,
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this tiny town
at the end of I-45
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where the sign says,
literally, "Mile 0,"
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those people go there
to get lost.
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_
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_
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_
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DeGuerin: Jeanine Pirro
ran him out of New York,
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and I say that without fear
of contradiction.
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That's what happened.
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Bob was driven from New York
by a politically ambitious woman
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who wanted to further
her own ambition
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at Bob Durst's expense
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with no evidence.
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DeGuerin down there
is making me the focus
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so that no one focuses
on what Robert Durst did.
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00:12:14,803 --> 00:12:18,771
Chip Lewis: It was very easy for us
to make her the enemy.
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We kind of created this mythical
character in Jeanine Pirro,
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and we took liberty
with how directly
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00:12:27,365 --> 00:12:30,883
she was involved
with that pursuit of Bob.
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00:12:30,919 --> 00:12:33,319
And until you've seen
your picture on the front page
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of the newspaper being accused
of having something to do
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with the disappearance
of a loved one,
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you don't know
what it feels like.
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00:12:40,562 --> 00:12:42,996
If Miss Pirro
kept her mouth shut,
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none of this
would have happened.
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Pirro:
Are you kidding?
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Well, I've heard,
"The devil made me do it."
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00:12:47,585 --> 00:12:50,003
I never heard,
"The DA made me do it."
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They lied.
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And that message played well.
The jury, they ate that one up.
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Well, it kind of made sense
a little bit
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when we were told that,
you know, he was trying
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to get out of New York because
Jeanine Pirro was after him.
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I think that she was really out to...
To get him,
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and with having the pressure on,
you know, he wanted to get away,
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and, you know,
I can't fault him for that.
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_
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_
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00:13:33,825 --> 00:13:35,201
_
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00:13:35,225 --> 00:13:36,786
_
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00:13:37,519 --> 00:13:39,802
Jarecki: In terms of the
disguise that you chose,
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00:13:39,854 --> 00:13:41,604
you know,
you talked about that in Galveston.
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Durst: Well, it was the only
disguise I could think of.
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I'm a guy.
And what is a guy going to do?
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I mean,
I could grow a beard and a mustache,
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and I'd periodically
worn a beard
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00:13:51,983 --> 00:13:54,400
and a mustache
in New York City,
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00:13:54,402 --> 00:13:58,621
but I can't grow a beard
and a mustache now,
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can't do it
by tomorrow morning.
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00:14:01,076 --> 00:14:03,409
I would have to get
some kind of a thing
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00:14:03,411 --> 00:14:06,295
to put on my face,
and I just couldn't imagine
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that any of that
would act vaguely real.
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00:14:09,217 --> 00:14:11,918
I just came up with
the idea of a wig,
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00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,053
and then,
since I'm going to be a woman,
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00:14:14,089 --> 00:14:15,922
I've got to be mute
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00:14:15,974 --> 00:14:19,976
because I cannot
sound the way I sound.
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00:14:20,011 --> 00:14:23,429
Jarecki: Um, I mean,
in retrospect now...
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That was a great disguise.
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_
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_
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[Laughter]
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00:14:37,112 --> 00:14:40,613
I heard the jury laugh,
and I remembered talking to Joel.
249
00:14:40,665 --> 00:14:42,949
I leaned over to Joel,
and I ask him,
250
00:14:43,001 --> 00:14:45,868
"Did they just laugh
at this man?"
251
00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:47,787
and it was
a defining moment for me.
252
00:14:47,839 --> 00:14:52,208
I felt like, "Oh, my goodness,
if they, the defense team,
253
00:14:52,260 --> 00:14:54,877
"had set out to
humanize him in some way
254
00:14:54,929 --> 00:14:58,297
"after he'd dismembered Morris Black,
murdered him,
255
00:14:58,349 --> 00:15:01,267
"and ran with his I.D.
and did everything he had done,
256
00:15:01,302 --> 00:15:04,737
they were looking like they
were being successful at it."
257
00:15:08,772 --> 00:15:12,467
_
258
00:15:12,491 --> 00:15:15,376
_
259
00:15:15,391 --> 00:15:17,106
_
260
00:15:17,127 --> 00:15:19,564
_
261
00:15:19,581 --> 00:15:24,814
_
262
00:15:26,137 --> 00:15:34,014
_
263
00:15:34,020 --> 00:15:37,216
_
264
00:15:39,574 --> 00:15:41,807
No one knew a great deal
about Morris
265
00:15:41,843 --> 00:15:45,044
because he was, uh, a loner.
266
00:15:45,079 --> 00:15:48,097
Every time I say the word
"cantankerous" and "grumpy,"
267
00:15:48,149 --> 00:15:50,650
I see Morris' face.
268
00:15:51,853 --> 00:15:53,569
Bagli:
There was a guy that lived
269
00:15:53,605 --> 00:15:56,222
in the house next door
that used to sit on the porch
270
00:15:56,257 --> 00:15:59,075
and smoke his cigarette,
and Morris Black would walk
271
00:15:59,110 --> 00:16:03,696
down the street and yell at him
for smoking on his porch.
272
00:16:09,020 --> 00:16:11,673
_
273
00:16:11,696 --> 00:16:17,384
_
274
00:16:17,407 --> 00:16:19,697
_
275
00:16:19,714 --> 00:16:21,714
Ramsey: If you stop
and think about it,
276
00:16:21,766 --> 00:16:23,216
if it weren't
such a tragic situation,
277
00:16:23,251 --> 00:16:25,218
it would be kind of
an amusing one...
278
00:16:25,286 --> 00:16:27,119
Morris out in front
like a terrier dog bitin'
279
00:16:27,155 --> 00:16:30,289
and snippin' at various people,
and...
280
00:16:30,325 --> 00:16:31,857
And Bob walking behind...
281
00:16:31,893 --> 00:16:32,925
[Inhales]
282
00:16:32,961 --> 00:16:34,627
Generally a little bit toked up,
283
00:16:34,662 --> 00:16:38,564
uh, uh,
kind of cooling things down.
284
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,702
Uh, it's an odd couple.
It's an odd situation.
285
00:16:44,209 --> 00:16:47,589
_
286
00:16:47,613 --> 00:16:53,217
_
287
00:16:53,337 --> 00:16:57,910
_
288
00:16:57,933 --> 00:17:00,954
_
289
00:17:01,074 --> 00:17:04,227
_
290
00:17:04,251 --> 00:17:05,636
_
291
00:17:05,655 --> 00:17:08,554
_
292
00:17:09,931 --> 00:17:11,564
Jarecki: Was there ever
a moment when he said,
293
00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:14,016
"Hey,
for the last couple of weeks,
294
00:17:14,068 --> 00:17:16,986
"you've been writing me
notes and wearing a wig.
295
00:17:17,021 --> 00:17:18,321
Now you're not
writing notes."
296
00:17:18,356 --> 00:17:21,073
Well, well, we became friendlier
as time went on
297
00:17:21,109 --> 00:17:22,358
in the following months.
298
00:17:22,410 --> 00:17:25,861
He asked about,
"How come you, you know,
299
00:17:25,913 --> 00:17:27,280
"were here wearing a...
300
00:17:27,282 --> 00:17:30,366
Why'd you rent the apartment
as Dorothy Signer?"
301
00:17:30,418 --> 00:17:32,868
and like that,
and I told him I wanted
302
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,955
to disappear and hide,
and I think, "I'm... I'm hiding.
303
00:17:36,007 --> 00:17:39,125
I don't find anybody
recognizing me."
304
00:17:39,177 --> 00:17:41,093
And did he judge in any way?
305
00:17:41,129 --> 00:17:42,295
Did he say, "Oh,
306
00:17:42,347 --> 00:17:43,462
it's a weird thing to do,
or..."
307
00:17:43,464 --> 00:17:44,797
No.
It was just the opposite.
308
00:17:44,849 --> 00:17:47,600
He said, "Yeah, yeah.
I did that a long time ago."
309
00:17:47,635 --> 00:17:49,135
Didn't say he changed his name
310
00:17:49,187 --> 00:17:51,137
or he dressed
like a woman or...
311
00:17:51,139 --> 00:17:53,222
But, yeah,
when I said I just didn't want
312
00:17:53,274 --> 00:17:55,308
to be Robert Durst anymore,
he said,
313
00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:57,727
"Yeah.
I went through that."
314
00:18:01,964 --> 00:18:04,523
_
315
00:18:04,536 --> 00:18:08,586
_
316
00:18:08,605 --> 00:18:12,754
_
317
00:18:12,775 --> 00:18:17,467
_
318
00:18:21,574 --> 00:18:26,201
_
319
00:18:26,220 --> 00:18:31,082
_
320
00:18:31,105 --> 00:18:34,411
_
321
00:18:34,849 --> 00:18:36,649
Part of the defense
was the famous
322
00:18:36,684 --> 00:18:40,353
"he had it coming" defense,
where Morris Black
323
00:18:40,355 --> 00:18:44,740
was such a bad guy in so many
different ways and so crazy,
324
00:18:44,776 --> 00:18:48,661
so touched in so many different
ways that we could prove.
325
00:18:52,471 --> 00:18:56,692
_
326
00:18:56,717 --> 00:19:00,299
_
327
00:19:01,718 --> 00:19:07,526
_
328
00:19:07,549 --> 00:19:11,351
_
329
00:19:13,873 --> 00:19:16,513
_
330
00:19:16,537 --> 00:19:19,932
_
331
00:19:19,942 --> 00:19:21,641
_
332
00:19:21,663 --> 00:19:25,636
_
333
00:19:25,655 --> 00:19:28,373
_
334
00:19:28,394 --> 00:19:31,162
_
335
00:19:31,177 --> 00:19:34,618
_
336
00:19:35,859 --> 00:19:42,674
_
337
00:19:42,697 --> 00:19:44,191
_
338
00:19:44,212 --> 00:19:46,074
_
339
00:19:46,090 --> 00:19:48,101
_
340
00:19:48,125 --> 00:19:52,077
_
341
00:19:52,094 --> 00:19:55,092
_
342
00:19:58,466 --> 00:20:00,900
Ramsey: What were dealing with
is an unpredictable
343
00:20:00,935 --> 00:20:04,303
and violent man,
one given to fits of rage,
344
00:20:04,338 --> 00:20:06,839
one given to bizarre conduct.
345
00:20:06,874 --> 00:20:08,808
That's the reason he comes in.
346
00:20:08,843 --> 00:20:11,577
We're not here to blacken
the name of a dead man.
347
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,014
Ramsey:
There's an old joke in Texas...
348
00:20:15,049 --> 00:20:18,384
They hang horse thieves
and let murderers go.
349
00:20:18,419 --> 00:20:21,353
That's because they don't have
any horses that need stealing.
350
00:20:21,389 --> 00:20:25,057
Uh, we do have some people
that need killing.
351
00:20:35,610 --> 00:20:38,545
_
352
00:20:38,580 --> 00:20:42,349
_
353
00:20:42,366 --> 00:20:45,607
_
354
00:20:45,630 --> 00:20:47,191
_
355
00:20:47,208 --> 00:20:50,062
_
356
00:20:51,688 --> 00:20:53,578
_
357
00:20:54,535 --> 00:20:57,165
_
358
00:20:57,189 --> 00:21:02,866
_
359
00:21:05,953 --> 00:21:13,627
_
360
00:21:15,035 --> 00:21:16,655
_
361
00:21:16,677 --> 00:21:18,511
Morris had swiveled the chair.
362
00:21:18,533 --> 00:21:19,169
_
363
00:21:19,184 --> 00:21:21,673
_
364
00:21:21,697 --> 00:21:24,574
_
365
00:21:24,597 --> 00:21:26,100
_
366
00:21:26,123 --> 00:21:28,929
_
367
00:21:28,952 --> 00:21:30,114
_
368
00:21:30,132 --> 00:21:32,187
_
369
00:21:32,198 --> 00:21:33,913
_
370
00:21:33,937 --> 00:21:36,150
_
371
00:21:36,174 --> 00:21:39,321
_
372
00:21:40,101 --> 00:21:43,969
Judging from his standpoint,
if you were in his shoes
373
00:21:44,005 --> 00:21:47,940
and you came to your house,
to your apartment, your home...
374
00:21:50,211 --> 00:21:55,814
and you found Morris Black
in there without your permission
375
00:21:55,850 --> 00:22:00,653
and you knew what we all
know now about Morris Black
376
00:22:00,688 --> 00:22:04,056
and Morris Black went for a gun,
377
00:22:04,091 --> 00:22:07,159
would you be
reasonable in being in fear?
378
00:22:09,130 --> 00:22:12,598
Would you be reasonable
in coming to your own defense?
379
00:22:14,535 --> 00:22:16,569
In the State of Texas,
you find somebody
380
00:22:16,621 --> 00:22:18,571
in your house who's
not supposed to be there,
381
00:22:18,623 --> 00:22:21,790
there's not much
you cannot do to them.
382
00:22:21,826 --> 00:22:24,577
Most other states,
what you're obligated to do
383
00:22:24,579 --> 00:22:26,128
is to call the police,
do something else.
384
00:22:26,163 --> 00:22:27,830
You're obligated to leave.
385
00:22:27,882 --> 00:22:30,165
Texas,
you're not obligated to leave.
386
00:22:30,217 --> 00:22:33,385
You can handle it more
or less as you see fit.
387
00:22:33,421 --> 00:22:36,505
Obviously,
you're not supposed to kill them.
388
00:22:39,093 --> 00:22:41,760
Lewis: We always
had to keep Bob on message.
389
00:22:41,812 --> 00:22:44,430
Uh, "You were afraid of him.
390
00:22:44,465 --> 00:22:45,931
"You were afraid
of what he would do,
391
00:22:45,983 --> 00:22:47,900
"and you knew you had to get
your hands on that gun
392
00:22:47,935 --> 00:22:50,069
or something
could happen to you."
393
00:22:50,104 --> 00:22:52,137
That was the case.
394
00:22:52,705 --> 00:22:54,349
_
395
00:22:54,372 --> 00:22:57,085
_
396
00:22:58,022 --> 00:23:01,632
_
397
00:23:14,371 --> 00:23:15,899
_
398
00:23:15,923 --> 00:23:19,248
_
399
00:23:19,269 --> 00:23:20,219
_
400
00:23:20,244 --> 00:23:21,640
_
401
00:23:21,653 --> 00:23:23,195
_
402
00:23:29,477 --> 00:23:31,777
And so they go into the fight
and the struggle,
403
00:23:31,812 --> 00:23:34,313
and they turned,
and he fell over the chair,
404
00:23:34,315 --> 00:23:36,448
and this happened
and put it in the...
405
00:23:36,484 --> 00:23:38,200
And they went through
this whole thing.
406
00:23:38,235 --> 00:23:39,902
I mean, you know,
it felt like I was watching
407
00:23:39,954 --> 00:23:43,288
something in theater,
and then he shot him.
408
00:23:43,324 --> 00:23:46,825
Accidentally, the gun went off.
I said, "Yeah. All right."
409
00:23:46,877 --> 00:23:48,827
I'm looking at the jury...
410
00:23:48,879 --> 00:23:51,163
[Inhales]
411
00:23:51,215 --> 00:23:54,166
And then I hear
the district attorney.
412
00:23:54,218 --> 00:23:55,834
So I'm thinking, "Okay. Yeah.
413
00:23:55,836 --> 00:23:57,503
They've got
a really great case."
414
00:24:04,245 --> 00:24:06,278
At some point, this gun,
415
00:24:06,313 --> 00:24:08,380
it has to turn and face you,
does it not?
416
00:24:08,416 --> 00:24:09,782
Durst: Yes, sir.
417
00:24:09,817 --> 00:24:12,251
And it's your testimony that,
what?
418
00:24:12,286 --> 00:24:14,820
Durst: But let's remember,
you were facing that way.
419
00:24:14,855 --> 00:24:16,121
That's right.
I'm facing this way.
420
00:24:16,157 --> 00:24:17,856
Durst: Right.
421
00:24:17,892 --> 00:24:20,659
The way you had it was...
Was what happened.
422
00:24:20,695 --> 00:24:23,028
The gun turns,
and it's just like this?
423
00:24:23,064 --> 00:24:24,163
Is this your testimony,
that it goes...
424
00:24:24,198 --> 00:24:27,232
Durst: Oh, I can't say
that's my testimony.
425
00:24:27,268 --> 00:24:29,068
The two of you
look like spaghetti,
426
00:24:29,103 --> 00:24:32,071
is the truth of the matter.
427
00:24:32,106 --> 00:24:34,440
Mr. Black kind of looked like
bloody spaghetti, didn't he?
428
00:24:34,475 --> 00:24:36,775
Durst: No. He didn't look
like bloody spaghetti.
429
00:24:36,811 --> 00:24:39,011
You just don't remember
how you were standing?
430
00:24:39,046 --> 00:24:40,813
Durst: I remember a whole lot better
431
00:24:40,848 --> 00:24:43,615
than this demonstration
is doing it.
432
00:24:43,651 --> 00:24:48,554
Bennett: The man sitting before you
cannot tell the truth.
433
00:24:48,589 --> 00:24:52,091
You were told that he and Morris
would go to places.
434
00:24:52,126 --> 00:24:57,980
Not one person told you
they saw those two together ever.
435
00:24:58,032 --> 00:24:59,565
It was convenient for him to say,
yeah,
436
00:24:59,567 --> 00:25:01,900
they were best friends
and they were best buds,
437
00:25:01,902 --> 00:25:04,903
but I never found one person
438
00:25:04,939 --> 00:25:08,607
that ever saw them
go anywhere together.
439
00:25:08,642 --> 00:25:10,075
If it came
out of Bob Durst's mouth
440
00:25:10,077 --> 00:25:12,878
and Bob Durst's mouth alone,
I don't believe it.
441
00:25:16,772 --> 00:25:22,000
_
442
00:25:22,023 --> 00:25:27,918
_
443
00:25:28,896 --> 00:25:31,263
Morris would go to the library
every day
444
00:25:31,298 --> 00:25:33,298
and he would use the Internet
for free.
445
00:25:40,508 --> 00:25:43,609
I think he discovered
who Durst was
446
00:25:43,661 --> 00:25:46,078
and his family's background
and their money.
447
00:25:48,315 --> 00:25:52,651
At some point, he told Durst that,
"If you don't help me,
448
00:25:52,686 --> 00:25:55,320
I'm going to tell New York
where you're at,"
449
00:25:55,356 --> 00:25:58,540
and I think that
is what got him killed.
450
00:26:08,636 --> 00:26:11,403
There are areas of bruising
across the shoulders,
451
00:26:11,438 --> 00:26:15,340
multiple red-brown bruises
occasionally blending together.
452
00:26:15,376 --> 00:26:17,476
This is not one blow.
453
00:26:17,511 --> 00:26:21,713
These are multiple blows
across the top of the shoulder.
454
00:26:24,027 --> 00:26:26,721
_
455
00:26:26,733 --> 00:26:28,757
_
456
00:26:28,778 --> 00:26:30,868
_
457
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,009
_
458
00:26:34,032 --> 00:26:38,974
_
459
00:26:40,734 --> 00:26:43,234
Bennett: You don't get multiple
blows from falling one time.
460
00:26:44,171 --> 00:26:47,172
Those injuries are not
consistent with self-defense.
461
00:26:47,208 --> 00:26:50,075
Didn't happen the way
he told you it happened.
462
00:26:53,737 --> 00:26:57,365
_
463
00:26:57,385 --> 00:26:58,712
_
464
00:26:58,735 --> 00:27:00,273
_
465
00:27:00,296 --> 00:27:01,764
_
466
00:27:02,289 --> 00:27:05,757
Man: There's
a bullet hole in the wall
467
00:27:05,793 --> 00:27:08,160
that was leading from
the living room to the kitchen.
468
00:27:09,463 --> 00:27:11,396
Bennett: You were told
that Morris Black
469
00:27:11,432 --> 00:27:13,699
shot the eviction letter.
470
00:27:13,734 --> 00:27:16,568
There's no bullet holes in it.
471
00:27:16,604 --> 00:27:17,970
There's a bullet hole
in the wall
472
00:27:18,005 --> 00:27:21,256
because Robert Durst
shot and missed Morris Black.
473
00:27:22,426 --> 00:27:23,876
He shot, he missed,
474
00:27:23,928 --> 00:27:26,261
he beat him to the ground,
and he executed him.
475
00:27:35,322 --> 00:27:38,423
You don't cut somebody up,
another human being,
476
00:27:38,459 --> 00:27:43,462
into pieces and bag him up,
dump him in the bay,
477
00:27:43,497 --> 00:27:46,265
when you act in self-defense.
478
00:27:46,300 --> 00:27:48,400
It just doesn't happen.
479
00:27:48,435 --> 00:27:50,636
You don't butcher somebody,
480
00:27:50,671 --> 00:27:52,938
put him in pieces, bag him up,
481
00:27:52,973 --> 00:27:55,908
dump him in the bay
482
00:27:55,943 --> 00:27:58,243
because there's an accident.
483
00:28:01,148 --> 00:28:02,814
Durst:
It was explained to me
484
00:28:02,850 --> 00:28:05,050
that I was gonna have to do
the dismemberment...
485
00:28:05,085 --> 00:28:07,185
There was no way around it...
486
00:28:07,221 --> 00:28:10,088
but I think maybe even my
lawyers had a vague suspicion.
487
00:28:10,124 --> 00:28:12,424
"Well, he's not going to be able
to get through this.
488
00:28:12,459 --> 00:28:14,092
"We're going to get
to the dismemberment,
489
00:28:14,094 --> 00:28:15,727
and he's just gonna, "Ach.""
490
00:28:20,699 --> 00:28:24,104
_
491
00:28:24,115 --> 00:28:29,458
_
492
00:28:29,468 --> 00:28:32,332
_
493
00:28:32,357 --> 00:28:36,394
_
494
00:28:38,570 --> 00:28:42,957
_
495
00:28:42,971 --> 00:28:44,321
_
496
00:28:46,716 --> 00:28:49,808
_
497
00:28:49,824 --> 00:28:54,723
_
498
00:28:54,742 --> 00:28:57,999
_
499
00:28:58,018 --> 00:28:59,848
_
500
00:28:59,873 --> 00:29:04,376
_
501
00:29:04,390 --> 00:29:08,523
_
502
00:29:08,547 --> 00:29:14,957
_
503
00:29:14,980 --> 00:29:16,548
_
504
00:29:16,565 --> 00:29:19,055
_
505
00:29:21,045 --> 00:29:24,246
Durst:
I was scared to death.
506
00:29:24,298 --> 00:29:27,749
I couldn't leave this corpse
in my apartment.
507
00:29:27,801 --> 00:29:29,334
I couldn't...
508
00:29:30,838 --> 00:29:34,306
I had to get this corpse
out of my apartment, period.
509
00:29:35,559 --> 00:29:38,927
So what did you decide to do
to get rid of the body?
510
00:29:38,979 --> 00:29:41,013
Well,
I decided I'd wait till night
511
00:29:41,065 --> 00:29:43,565
and then I'd pick it up
and carry it out of there,
512
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,901
and then I realized I wasn't
picking up that body
513
00:29:45,936 --> 00:29:48,353
and carrying it anywhere
because it was much...
514
00:29:48,355 --> 00:29:51,073
I mean, I wasn't
strong enough to do that.
515
00:29:51,108 --> 00:29:53,692
I could drag it out,
but I just couldn't see...
516
00:29:53,744 --> 00:29:55,610
I mean,
I thought about putting it
517
00:29:55,662 --> 00:29:57,195
in a sleeping bag or something
518
00:29:57,197 --> 00:29:58,530
and then dragging
the whole thing out,
519
00:29:58,532 --> 00:30:00,999
but, good God,
that's ridiculous.
520
00:30:03,816 --> 00:30:07,050
_
521
00:30:08,321 --> 00:30:13,343
_
522
00:30:13,366 --> 00:30:20,737
_
523
00:30:23,028 --> 00:30:25,056
_
524
00:30:30,064 --> 00:30:32,230
Durst:
Now, Morris had tools.
525
00:30:32,282 --> 00:30:33,732
He had saws and...
526
00:30:33,734 --> 00:30:37,736
And, um, axes, a giant ax.
527
00:30:37,738 --> 00:30:43,241
Uh, I don't think he had a...
528
00:30:45,079 --> 00:30:47,412
I don't think he had a bow saw.
529
00:30:49,583 --> 00:30:52,634
Anyway,
I went and bought a bow saw
530
00:30:52,669 --> 00:30:55,720
and then a bunch of garbage bags
and stuff like that
531
00:30:55,756 --> 00:30:58,723
and went back to...
To the house,
532
00:30:58,759 --> 00:31:02,561
and I'm sure I got more stoned
and more drunk,
533
00:31:02,596 --> 00:31:05,680
and I dismembered the corpse
primarily with the ax
534
00:31:05,732 --> 00:31:08,350
but some with the bow saw
535
00:31:08,402 --> 00:31:11,686
and, I think,
another saw that Morris Black had.
536
00:31:19,380 --> 00:31:22,068
_
537
00:31:23,149 --> 00:31:26,008
_
538
00:31:26,031 --> 00:31:28,485
_
539
00:31:28,509 --> 00:31:29,871
_
540
00:31:30,576 --> 00:31:36,721
_
541
00:31:36,740 --> 00:31:38,701
_
542
00:31:38,724 --> 00:31:40,861
_
543
00:31:40,879 --> 00:31:42,010
_
544
00:31:42,029 --> 00:31:46,608
_
545
00:31:46,625 --> 00:31:50,469
_
546
00:31:50,488 --> 00:31:52,312
_
547
00:31:52,332 --> 00:31:55,165
_
548
00:31:55,183 --> 00:31:57,782
_
549
00:31:57,801 --> 00:32:01,343
_
550
00:32:08,462 --> 00:32:10,629
Ramsey: We worked for days,
many days,
551
00:32:10,664 --> 00:32:12,264
getting him ready
for the kind of questions
552
00:32:12,299 --> 00:32:15,700
I knew were going to be coming
on cross-examination.
553
00:32:15,736 --> 00:32:16,968
"Tell us about
what it was like, sir.
554
00:32:17,004 --> 00:32:20,138
"Where did you start to cut
on Morris Black?
555
00:32:20,174 --> 00:32:21,890
"Did you cut his arm off first,
556
00:32:21,925 --> 00:32:24,509
"or did you cut
his leg off first?
557
00:32:24,561 --> 00:32:27,896
"What did you use to cut the leg with?
Show us.
558
00:32:27,931 --> 00:32:30,932
"What part of his leg
did you saw on first, Mr. Durst,
559
00:32:30,984 --> 00:32:34,603
your friend
that you were cutting up?"
560
00:32:34,655 --> 00:32:39,024
There was a concern
on our part that, um...
561
00:32:41,862 --> 00:32:45,030
the way he sometimes
describes things, um,
562
00:32:45,032 --> 00:32:47,332
without a lot of emotion,
563
00:32:47,367 --> 00:32:49,584
hearing him describe
the technical dissection
564
00:32:49,620 --> 00:32:53,205
of that body would
lead someone to believe
565
00:32:53,257 --> 00:32:55,840
he's a cold-blooded killer.
566
00:33:00,067 --> 00:33:02,861
_
567
00:33:02,884 --> 00:33:04,845
_
568
00:33:04,869 --> 00:33:06,512
_
569
00:33:06,535 --> 00:33:08,942
_
570
00:33:08,966 --> 00:33:10,821
_
571
00:33:11,892 --> 00:33:14,693
Lewis: It was very
important to say, "Bob, look.
572
00:33:14,728 --> 00:33:16,528
"Your memory is very fuzzy.
573
00:33:16,563 --> 00:33:19,781
"Your memory on this
is naturally repressed.
574
00:33:19,816 --> 00:33:21,950
"We've had psychiatrists,
psychologists see you.
575
00:33:21,985 --> 00:33:23,568
"They'll all agree.
576
00:33:23,620 --> 00:33:27,289
"For such a horrific event,
it's very common
577
00:33:27,324 --> 00:33:29,074
"that you don't remember
all the details.
578
00:33:29,076 --> 00:33:30,542
Don't try to."
579
00:33:32,216 --> 00:33:35,662
_
580
00:33:35,685 --> 00:33:37,024
_
581
00:33:37,036 --> 00:33:38,926
_
582
00:33:38,944 --> 00:33:39,930
_
583
00:33:39,954 --> 00:33:41,339
_
584
00:33:42,219 --> 00:33:46,352
_
585
00:33:48,495 --> 00:33:54,366
I did not kill my best friend.
I did dismember him.
586
00:34:04,361 --> 00:34:07,028
Durst:
Took the body parts,
587
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:13,368
put them in the garbage bags,
and drove to find some place
588
00:34:13,420 --> 00:34:15,787
to dump the garbage bags,
and it immediately became
589
00:34:15,839 --> 00:34:18,206
obvious to me
I can dump them in the water.
590
00:34:18,258 --> 00:34:20,041
It'll sink.
Nobody will have seen them.
591
00:34:20,093 --> 00:34:23,628
The garbage bags are heavy.
That's what I did.
592
00:34:26,099 --> 00:34:28,393
_
593
00:34:28,405 --> 00:34:30,307
_
594
00:34:30,325 --> 00:34:32,456
_
595
00:34:32,479 --> 00:34:34,006
_
596
00:34:34,024 --> 00:34:36,891
Jarecki:
Had you done any work
597
00:34:36,943 --> 00:34:37,942
to try to figure out
whether the tide
598
00:34:37,978 --> 00:34:39,678
was coming in,
the tide was coming out?
599
00:34:39,713 --> 00:34:41,896
I wouldn't know how to begin.
600
00:34:41,948 --> 00:34:43,648
Jarecki: So you basically just
decided you were gonna...
601
00:34:43,700 --> 00:34:45,150
I figured it was deep.
602
00:34:45,152 --> 00:34:46,568
I'm gonna drop it,
it's gonna sink.
603
00:34:46,620 --> 00:34:48,286
Who cares where
the tide is going?
604
00:34:48,322 --> 00:34:50,205
It's underwater.
Nobody's gonna see it.
605
00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:52,040
Jarecki: Right,
but the bags didn't sink.
606
00:34:52,075 --> 00:34:54,125
- No.
- Jarecki: What happened?
607
00:34:54,161 --> 00:34:56,077
They floated.
608
00:34:59,534 --> 00:35:03,139
_
609
00:35:03,156 --> 00:35:04,870
_
610
00:35:04,894 --> 00:35:06,607
_
611
00:35:06,626 --> 00:35:07,874
_
612
00:35:07,898 --> 00:35:09,564
_
613
00:35:09,589 --> 00:35:13,416
_
614
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,398
_
615
00:35:19,086 --> 00:35:22,454
Sistrunk:
At the dump site that evening,
616
00:35:22,489 --> 00:35:25,190
there was a bag with a right leg
and a bag with a left leg,
617
00:35:25,192 --> 00:35:27,859
right arm, left arm,
and a torso.
618
00:35:29,329 --> 00:35:31,780
Bennett: But there
was one bag that had obviously
619
00:35:31,832 --> 00:35:35,166
been sliced open not just
with a rock or something,
620
00:35:35,202 --> 00:35:37,836
but some kind
of sharp instrument.
621
00:35:37,871 --> 00:35:39,738
Sistrunk: And the
only thing that was missing
622
00:35:39,773 --> 00:35:42,841
from everything that was there
was Morris Black's head.
623
00:35:42,876 --> 00:35:45,627
It was clear to us
that when Durst realized
624
00:35:45,679 --> 00:35:48,463
the bags were floating,
he cut the bag,
625
00:35:48,515 --> 00:35:50,799
picked up the head,
and he took off.
626
00:35:52,352 --> 00:35:54,552
He knew the head was the most
important piece of evidence
627
00:35:54,554 --> 00:35:57,822
about what happened
in that apartment.
628
00:35:59,226 --> 00:36:01,459
Cazalas: There was
no wrestling over the gun.
629
00:36:01,495 --> 00:36:03,611
I think he shoved Morris down
630
00:36:03,647 --> 00:36:05,563
and he shot him
in the back of the head,
631
00:36:05,565 --> 00:36:07,148
and can I prove that?
632
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,268
No, not without the head.
633
00:36:18,211 --> 00:36:20,412
Criss: All right.
You all may be seated.
634
00:36:22,783 --> 00:36:25,216
Mr. Lewis,
you may proceed.
635
00:36:25,252 --> 00:36:28,453
This case is not
about what happened
636
00:36:28,488 --> 00:36:32,624
to Morris Black's body
after he was dead.
637
00:36:32,659 --> 00:36:35,493
This case is not about
what Bob Durst did
638
00:36:35,529 --> 00:36:38,296
after Morris Black died.
639
00:36:38,331 --> 00:36:41,966
The sole issue for you
ladies and gentlemen to decide
640
00:36:42,002 --> 00:36:45,870
is how Morris Black died.
641
00:36:47,307 --> 00:36:49,674
DeGuerin: We started
getting over to the jurors
642
00:36:49,709 --> 00:36:53,278
this thought about,
"It doesn't change what happened
643
00:36:53,330 --> 00:36:56,664
"to Morris Black,
anything that Bob Durst
644
00:36:56,700 --> 00:36:59,534
did with the body afterwards."
645
00:36:59,586 --> 00:37:02,787
They... They put in front of
the jury about a thousand times,
646
00:37:02,789 --> 00:37:06,040
"Was there anything
that Robert Durst could do
647
00:37:06,092 --> 00:37:11,296
"after finding Morris Black dead to...
To prevent his death
648
00:37:11,298 --> 00:37:14,632
or to change the manner
in which he died?" And they...
649
00:37:14,684 --> 00:37:16,468
They brought up
about a zillion examples.
650
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:18,937
"Can you unstrike a match? No.
651
00:37:18,972 --> 00:37:21,306
"Can you unring a bell?
No.
652
00:37:21,358 --> 00:37:23,808
"If somebody's dead,
is there anything you can do
653
00:37:23,860 --> 00:37:25,393
"to prevent him from dying?
654
00:37:25,445 --> 00:37:26,728
No."
655
00:37:26,780 --> 00:37:30,448
There is no charge
of dismemberment of the corpse.
656
00:37:30,484 --> 00:37:33,585
There is no charge
of destruction of evidence,
657
00:37:33,620 --> 00:37:38,056
nothing that the state
keeps trying to focus you on.
658
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:46,998
They have to focus you on that
because how Morris Black died...
659
00:37:47,033 --> 00:37:50,134
Self-defense, an accident...
660
00:37:50,170 --> 00:37:54,205
They have woefully failed
to meet their burden.
661
00:37:54,241 --> 00:37:56,224
Their plea that they
came up with,
662
00:37:56,259 --> 00:38:00,478
accidental and self-defense,
is brilliant
663
00:38:00,514 --> 00:38:02,647
because if it's just
two people in a room,
664
00:38:02,682 --> 00:38:07,018
how do you disprove
self-defense?
665
00:38:07,053 --> 00:38:10,605
There was a moment
during my cross-examination
666
00:38:10,657 --> 00:38:14,826
of Cody Cazalas that I thought
was extremely important,
667
00:38:14,861 --> 00:38:18,112
and, to his credit,
he answered honestly.
668
00:38:19,609 --> 00:38:23,912
_
669
00:38:23,935 --> 00:38:26,718
_
670
00:38:26,735 --> 00:38:31,352
_
671
00:38:31,374 --> 00:38:32,586
_
672
00:38:32,595 --> 00:38:33,558
_
673
00:38:33,581 --> 00:38:40,212
_
674
00:38:40,226 --> 00:38:42,218
_
675
00:38:47,861 --> 00:38:50,428
Lewis: Sergeant Cazalas
told you the truth.
676
00:38:50,463 --> 00:38:51,930
That man told you
what the State of Texas
677
00:38:51,965 --> 00:38:53,431
doesn't want to talk about.
678
00:38:53,466 --> 00:38:56,434
Their burden to disprove
beyond all reasonable doubt,
679
00:38:56,469 --> 00:38:59,837
according to their lead detective,
they can't meet it.
680
00:39:01,474 --> 00:39:04,809
Every little saw mark in each
and every one of those leg bones
681
00:39:04,844 --> 00:39:08,746
and arm bones has got
a whole lot of intent in it,
682
00:39:08,782 --> 00:39:13,117
a whole lot of intent of a man
who's getting away with murder.
683
00:39:13,153 --> 00:39:17,956
The state's burden is to prove
to you beyond a reasonable doubt
684
00:39:17,991 --> 00:39:20,792
that Bob Durst
had his finger on the trigger
685
00:39:20,827 --> 00:39:24,696
when the gun went off
and killed Morris Black.
686
00:39:24,731 --> 00:39:29,133
Look at every piece of evidence
you heard and consider it.
687
00:39:29,169 --> 00:39:31,336
You can't segment it
and only look
688
00:39:31,371 --> 00:39:33,705
at certain portions of it
and ignore everything else.
689
00:39:33,740 --> 00:39:35,406
That's not proper.
690
00:39:35,442 --> 00:39:38,242
Possibly guilty.
Probably guilty.
691
00:39:38,278 --> 00:39:41,245
We all talked about that.
692
00:39:41,281 --> 00:39:44,916
What that means is not guilty.
693
00:39:44,951 --> 00:39:48,219
What kind of criminal justice
system are we gonna have
694
00:39:48,254 --> 00:39:51,155
when we can't consider
everything that happened
695
00:39:51,191 --> 00:39:54,158
after, during, and before?
696
00:39:54,194 --> 00:39:56,394
It all goes to the man's
state of mind.
697
00:39:56,429 --> 00:39:57,895
It all goes to his intent.
698
00:39:57,931 --> 00:40:01,466
Bob Durst is not guilty
of murder.
699
00:40:03,570 --> 00:40:07,171
Bob Durst is not guilty
of murder.
700
00:40:08,174 --> 00:40:12,010
Whatever else he may have done
701
00:40:12,045 --> 00:40:14,178
is for another time and place.
702
00:40:17,150 --> 00:40:18,750
Thank you all.
703
00:40:37,337 --> 00:40:40,004
Katie Couric: Now to a
courthouse in Galveston, Texas,
704
00:40:40,056 --> 00:40:42,306
where jurors still
have not reached a verdict
705
00:40:42,342 --> 00:40:45,710
in the bizarre murder trial of
real estate heir Robert Durst.
706
00:40:45,745 --> 00:40:47,345
The trial itself lasted 6 weeks.
707
00:40:47,380 --> 00:40:49,347
Some people here are beginning
to worry that the jury
708
00:40:49,416 --> 00:40:51,449
might take that long to decide
whether Robert Durst
709
00:40:51,484 --> 00:40:53,351
is guilty of murder.
710
00:41:10,136 --> 00:41:12,537
Criss: You may be seated.
711
00:41:14,007 --> 00:41:16,941
Mr. Foreman,
I understand you have a verdict.
712
00:41:16,976 --> 00:41:17,975
Foreman:
Yes, your honor.
713
00:41:18,011 --> 00:41:20,745
Will you hand it
to the bailiff?
714
00:41:27,787 --> 00:41:30,421
Will the defendant please rise?
715
00:41:38,198 --> 00:41:41,199
Criss: Well,
the verdict of the jury is such.
716
00:41:41,234 --> 00:41:44,969
"We, the jury,
find the defendant Robert Durst
717
00:41:45,004 --> 00:41:46,270
not guilty."
718
00:41:46,306 --> 00:41:48,873
[Camera shutters clicking]
719
00:41:54,314 --> 00:41:57,548
Is there anything the attorneys
would like to say at this point?
720
00:41:57,584 --> 00:42:00,151
Attorney: Thank you,
ladies and gentlemen.
721
00:42:00,186 --> 00:42:03,721
Lewis: We also thank the jury
for the sacrifice of their time.
722
00:42:03,757 --> 00:42:05,490
Bennett: Thank you
for all your time
723
00:42:05,525 --> 00:42:07,225
and attention
and your sacrifice.
724
00:42:07,260 --> 00:42:09,927
Criss: All right,
ladies and gentlemen of the jury.
725
00:42:09,963 --> 00:42:12,029
This is what the procedure is
that we are going to follow.
726
00:42:12,065 --> 00:42:13,631
First of all,
we're going to take you back
727
00:42:13,666 --> 00:42:15,366
into the jury room...
728
00:42:15,659 --> 00:42:18,061
_
729
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:19,560
_
730
00:42:21,098 --> 00:42:24,975
_
731
00:42:30,917 --> 00:42:35,453
Gongora: What we did...
And it was a big struggle for all of us...
732
00:42:35,488 --> 00:42:38,756
Is, we kept going
back to the charge
733
00:42:38,792 --> 00:42:44,162
that was put forth to the jury
as to the actual event,
734
00:42:44,197 --> 00:42:46,998
that one moment in time.
735
00:42:47,033 --> 00:42:50,601
It was a very unpopular
occurrence when the...
736
00:42:50,637 --> 00:42:53,721
When Bob Durst
was found not guilty.
737
00:42:53,773 --> 00:42:56,140
The townspeople, friends,
relatives,
738
00:42:56,192 --> 00:42:57,859
they weren't happy
with the verdict
739
00:42:57,894 --> 00:43:00,278
that was brought forward,
740
00:43:00,313 --> 00:43:03,981
but when Mr. Durst was on the,
uh, stand...
741
00:43:05,535 --> 00:43:07,985
I felt he was talking
from the heart.
742
00:43:11,891 --> 00:43:14,725
Lovell: Through the course
of the 5 days
743
00:43:14,761 --> 00:43:17,228
of deliberation, Bob never...
744
00:43:17,263 --> 00:43:20,932
He never had more than 3
guilty votes the whole time.
745
00:43:22,335 --> 00:43:24,869
The last one
that changed their mind,
746
00:43:24,904 --> 00:43:28,172
she had a problem finding him
not guilty
747
00:43:28,208 --> 00:43:30,975
because he had
chopped up the body,
748
00:43:31,010 --> 00:43:32,643
and I could understand that.
749
00:43:32,679 --> 00:43:35,429
She was a...
She was a good Christian woman,
750
00:43:35,481 --> 00:43:39,600
very nice lady, but I just said,
"You know, that's...
751
00:43:39,652 --> 00:43:42,186
"That's not what we're
here to do.
752
00:43:42,238 --> 00:43:45,156
"We're here to determine
753
00:43:45,191 --> 00:43:47,408
"if the event
that killed Morris Black
754
00:43:47,443 --> 00:43:49,944
"was murder or not,
not what happened
755
00:43:49,996 --> 00:43:52,864
to his body after
he was already dead."
756
00:43:52,866 --> 00:43:56,167
I said, "We've got to...
That's our job."
757
00:44:07,513 --> 00:44:10,014
Cazalas: As a homicide
investigator,
758
00:44:10,049 --> 00:44:13,217
you work for God
759
00:44:13,219 --> 00:44:17,054
because the victim's not there
to tell his story.
760
00:44:18,391 --> 00:44:21,392
You're there to represent
the victim.
761
00:44:21,394 --> 00:44:25,446
You're there to tell his story.
762
00:44:25,481 --> 00:44:28,733
You're doing that for God.
763
00:44:28,735 --> 00:44:30,234
Um...
764
00:44:32,038 --> 00:44:34,238
there's a lot of truth in that.
765
00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:38,492
To this day,
I feel like I let the...
766
00:44:38,544 --> 00:44:41,312
Can we stop? Thanks.
767
00:44:57,497 --> 00:44:58,863
Jarecki:
You told me on the telephone
768
00:44:58,898 --> 00:45:01,565
that DeGuerin might not
want me to talk to you
769
00:45:01,601 --> 00:45:03,601
because he wouldn't
want to see you
770
00:45:03,603 --> 00:45:05,236
in an interview saying
that you had lied
771
00:45:05,271 --> 00:45:06,437
to the jury in Galveston.
772
00:45:06,439 --> 00:45:07,989
Well, they didn't know
what I was gonna say.
773
00:45:08,024 --> 00:45:10,942
So, I mean,
they've always felt that, you know,
774
00:45:10,944 --> 00:45:13,277
they got this home run now.
775
00:45:13,279 --> 00:45:15,413
Now, I get out there
and I say something
776
00:45:15,448 --> 00:45:18,532
that implies that
I made it all up
777
00:45:18,584 --> 00:45:21,585
or that I told the lawyers
and that we all got together
778
00:45:21,621 --> 00:45:23,537
and made it all up or whatever,
779
00:45:23,589 --> 00:45:25,289
that's a disaster.
780
00:45:25,341 --> 00:45:27,208
So they just wanted
to stay away,
781
00:45:27,260 --> 00:45:28,843
and they said about
a zillion times,
782
00:45:28,878 --> 00:45:30,461
"You can't help yourself.
783
00:45:30,513 --> 00:45:33,130
"Right now,
you're a free man 100%.
784
00:45:33,132 --> 00:45:35,716
"You say something
inadvertently,
785
00:45:35,768 --> 00:45:38,386
"and you'll find yourself
charged in New York
786
00:45:38,438 --> 00:45:42,356
"or charged in,
uh, Los Angeles,
787
00:45:42,392 --> 00:45:46,560
"and, uh,
an interview is a big risk for you.
788
00:45:46,612 --> 00:45:49,230
Why do you want
to do an interview?"
789
00:45:49,282 --> 00:45:50,698
Certainly,
you've said to me that you did lie
790
00:45:50,733 --> 00:45:53,234
to the jury in Galveston
in some way,
791
00:45:53,286 --> 00:45:54,902
that your lawyer
encouraged you to,
792
00:45:54,954 --> 00:45:56,037
and I think that's...
793
00:45:56,072 --> 00:45:59,156
Well,
he didn't encourage me to.
794
00:45:59,158 --> 00:46:02,626
We went over the oath,
and from day one,
795
00:46:02,662 --> 00:46:05,329
the oath says,
796
00:46:05,331 --> 00:46:08,332
"You, uh,
promise to tell the truth,
797
00:46:08,384 --> 00:46:11,635
the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth."
798
00:46:11,671 --> 00:46:13,838
"Just make sure
the ones at the end...
799
00:46:13,890 --> 00:46:16,307
"'Tell the truth,
nothing but the truth'...
800
00:46:16,342 --> 00:46:19,060
"That you do exactly that.
801
00:46:19,095 --> 00:46:21,345
"In terms of 'the whole truth,'
802
00:46:21,397 --> 00:46:24,982
"if you want to leave out
something that does not...
803
00:46:25,018 --> 00:46:28,652
"Uh, which makes you
look bad if you tell it
804
00:46:28,688 --> 00:46:34,492
"but does not turn into an untruth,
well, try it.
805
00:46:34,527 --> 00:46:36,077
"Try it.
806
00:46:36,112 --> 00:46:37,445
"If there's something
so terrible that you
807
00:46:37,497 --> 00:46:39,413
"don't want to say it
or you think could
808
00:46:39,449 --> 00:46:43,117
be construed the wrong way,
then just leave it out."
809
00:46:43,169 --> 00:46:44,668
I'm saying,
was there something that was
810
00:46:44,704 --> 00:46:46,620
relevant in Galveston that,
you know,
811
00:46:46,672 --> 00:46:48,255
would have had an influence,
812
00:46:48,291 --> 00:46:49,540
where you knew
that you were saying
813
00:46:49,542 --> 00:46:51,926
something that was limited?
814
00:46:51,961 --> 00:46:54,261
Let me see what else
I can think of
815
00:46:54,297 --> 00:46:56,430
where they didn't
specifically ask it
816
00:46:56,466 --> 00:47:00,601
and I specifically
didn't go there.
817
00:47:00,636 --> 00:47:02,019
I'd have to think about it.
818
00:47:02,055 --> 00:47:04,305
Next time you interview me,
I'll have that, and I'll...
819
00:47:04,357 --> 00:47:06,390
I'll think of a few things.
820
00:47:06,392 --> 00:47:09,093
[Sniffles]
821
00:47:09,128 --> 00:47:10,311
Shall we take a break
for a few minutes?
822
00:47:10,363 --> 00:47:12,396
- Want to take a break?
- Durst: Sure.
823
00:47:12,448 --> 00:47:13,464
Man: Take a break.
824
00:47:13,499 --> 00:47:15,266
Woman: There's
coffee now.
825
00:47:16,736 --> 00:47:17,818
Sign this.
826
00:47:19,539 --> 00:47:21,655
Okay. Thank you,
827
00:47:21,707 --> 00:47:23,791
and there's orange juice and...
828
00:47:23,826 --> 00:47:27,378
I did not knowingly
purposefully lie.
829
00:47:27,413 --> 00:47:28,329
[Gulp]
830
00:47:28,381 --> 00:47:29,663
Woman: I don't know,
but the room...
831
00:47:29,715 --> 00:47:32,216
The room is the same
room we had,
832
00:47:32,251 --> 00:47:33,667
the absolute same.
833
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:35,886
I did not knowingly
purposefully lie.
834
00:47:35,922 --> 00:47:38,055
Different woman: Yeah,
and then they're pissed off
835
00:47:38,091 --> 00:47:39,590
with this shit.
836
00:47:39,642 --> 00:47:41,008
Woman: Right.
837
00:47:41,060 --> 00:47:43,928
I did not knowingly
purposefully
838
00:47:43,980 --> 00:47:45,980
intentionally lie.
839
00:47:46,015 --> 00:47:48,766
I did make mistakes.
840
00:47:48,768 --> 00:47:50,935
So I told...
841
00:47:50,955 --> 00:47:52,833
_
842
00:47:52,855 --> 00:47:54,538
What?
843
00:47:54,558 --> 00:47:56,228
_
844
00:47:56,992 --> 00:47:59,824
_
845
00:47:59,846 --> 00:48:02,446
Oh, oh, oh.
I was reviewing...
846
00:48:02,471 --> 00:48:03,316
_
847
00:48:03,340 --> 00:48:04,532
I hear what you're saying.
848
00:48:04,584 --> 00:48:06,417
You could hear
everything I said.
849
00:48:06,452 --> 00:48:08,953
I never intently...
I mean, how do I...
850
00:48:08,955 --> 00:48:10,871
I mean, you know,
it's a question
851
00:48:10,923 --> 00:48:14,041
of not what do I say,
but how do I say it.
852
00:48:14,093 --> 00:48:18,796
I never intentionally
purposefully lied.
853
00:48:18,798 --> 00:48:21,715
I made mistakes,
854
00:48:21,767 --> 00:48:23,767
did not tell the whole truth.
855
00:48:23,803 --> 00:48:27,104
Nobody tells the whole truth.
856
00:48:27,224 --> 00:48:30,807
Sync, corrected by icephoenix
www.addic7ed.com
857
00:48:30,857 --> 00:48:35,407
Repair and Synchronization by
Easy Subtitles Synchronizer 1.0.0.0
61429
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