All language subtitles for The.Curious.Case.Of.Natalia.Grace.S02E05.NORDiC.1080p.HMAX.WEB-DL.DD5.1.H.264-DKV.en

Today, Michael and Natalia
get back together to have a chat.

This is round two.

Michael's lawyer,
Terrance Kinnard,

and Natalia's father,
Antwon Mans, cannot be there.

So, the two who were
arguing the month earlier,

they're gone, and now it
is just Natalia and Michael.

I do want
to hear Michael out,

but, like, I'm kind of expecting
the unexpected here.

I think I'm just really nervous about what
he says and how it will affect me.

I have a lot of questions and all I'm
asking is that just... just answer them.

So, I'm just...

I'm... legit, like, nervous right now.

Michael really
wants some resolution here.

He wants some peace of mind.
He needs to put this to rest.

Meeting Natalia, I'm looking for all
these different pieces of...

of warning signs,
like an early warning system, right?

You know, for people like my mother
who grew up in the '50s and '60s

and they had to deal with
things like nuclear bomb sirens,

they're waiting for any sound
to tell you something's falling.

If I'm talking to Natalia,
and I hear...

Is that the wind?

Ha, it's not falling.

I am on edge and on nerve.

Then we have Natalia,
who really needs some answers.

She was very
unfulfilled after the trial

and she's gonna ask some
hard questions of Michael

and she needs to know why
she was treated the way she was.

There's a lot of stuff
that I want to ask Michael.

Why did they adopt me in the first place?

What made them change their mind?

Since you're just fighting,
fighting, fighting,

you're gonna need to have time
on the wall.

Why didn't he step in
when I was fighting with Kristine?

Like, why didn't Michael defend me?

Why didn't Michael even
just take me out of there?

Of course Natalia
wants answers, but...

she's running a risk here,
because Michael has triggers.

I tried, I tried, I tried!

- I wanted to talk with you.
- No!

Let me--

-Let's--
-Leave me alone!

Is she running the risk that he's gonna
get up and walk out again?

But you have to fight
to get to the truth.

I'm hopeful that something
is gonna really uncover the truth

and that we're one step closer
to getting justice done.

I don't view Natalia as a devil,
but I also don't view her as an angel.

There's something
sinister about her.

Everywhere Natalia has been,

drama follows.

Everywhere Natalia has been,
families have been in upheaval.

My opinion, Natalia is
a very damaged person,

who will hurt others
before the proverbial "they hurt me."

This is an opportunity
for Natalia that she's never had,

to sit down as an adult
and ask questions of Michael

and she gets to try
to hold him accountable

for what happened to her years ago.

Michael, whatever you got to say,
go ahead and say it.

I'm just praying that
it's actually the truth.

Given what
happened the first time

Michael and Natalia got
together and he stormed out,

anything could happen this time.

Hi.

Hi.

Oy vey.
So, where were we?

Where do you want to start?

We could start from
where you left off.

I believe the
question we were on...

was why didn't I leave Kristine.

It's difficult to understand.
But, after...

15 plus years of...

being put down, and degraded,
and controlled, and threatened,

I didn't have any strength
at all to stand up to her.

I... I wish I did.
Wish I did.

I didn't.

You ever seen the movie
Monsters, Inc.?

Yes.

You know, the same monster
goes through bunches of doors and...

all these kids around the world have the
same monster, but they don't know it?

We had the same monster

and we didn't know it.

For... years.

Everybody that knows me... we...

don't call her by "Kristine."
Matter of fact, I hate the word.

I don't like the word.
I don't like hearing the word.

Her name is "Evil."

Every now and then I'll call her
"The Wicked Witch of the South," but...

Sorry.

No, it's okay,
a little levity is all right.

But... she's earned it.

We had the same monster
and we didn't know it.

For... years.

From the second
interview Michael gave us,

he was blaming Kristine for a lot
of the dysfunction in the household.

Kristine was the purveyor
of the word "abuse."

Controlling, manipulating,
brainwashing.

Her nickname is "Evil" and
she's earned every letter.

And he's continuing to do that
in this conversation.

And Natalia's bonding
with him a little bit,

you know, they're having
their little trauma bonding,

that they were both
abused by Kristine

in different ways, but they
were both victims of Kristine.

So, you can... you can see that,

you can see her warming
up a little bit to him.

What do you know
that Kristine did to me?

I know some things.

Other things I just learned.

And then this is
gonna sound silly...

I'm afraid of what I don't know.

Like...

I know a little.

I don't know a lot.

What do you know?

It's a very long answer. I mean, that
could... that could take us a week.

Just... the highlights.

Golly, I just...

Michael is being very careful, whether
he's worried about a court of law,

civil or criminal, or...

just, you know, the court of
public opinion, to use a cliché.

It just seems like he's been advised
by his attorney to steer clear,

or not admit any kind of liability,
or incriminate you in any way.

I'm so afraid of the things
I don't know about.

And I don't wanna know
the things I don't know about.

Because I know
they're all terrible.

And I'd rather just not know

that there's such horrible
things in the world.

But life doesn't give
us those opportunities.

The only chance I have...

at an okay future, and maybe
you've got a little of this in there too,

if all of us... if every...

if everyone...

just stands up and says,

"This is what
happens, what she did."

If we do it all at
the same time,

she can't scream
and lie her way out of it.

He's continuing to deflect.

You gotta wonder,

'cause his lawyers were always
present at all the interviews,

including that first sit-down with
Natalia that lasted only minutes.

His lawyer, Terrance, is smart.

He may have advised Michael how
to pivot away from an answer and...

you know, deflect it to Kristine.

- You got this.
- I know.

It's a brilliant deflection.

But that's not being evasive.

My experience with Michael,

I absolutely think he suffers from
PTSD as a result of his marriage.

I think he still has a
lot of mental trauma

as a result of the
loss of his marriage.

And I know he believes that
Kristine is the reason for that.

She has screamed and
screamed and screamed

horrific, horrific,
horrific lies.

I'm just like...

I think he's just trying to get
the criticism of the public off of him

and trying to use the sympathy
to be like,

"I was victimized, too," like,
"Please don't come after me."

Like, "I was a
victim too in this."

But the thing is, for me,
yes, you were a victim,

but you also...
was the perpetrator.

You were an accomplice of it all, too.

If Kristine was this so-called monster,
he could have fought her.

I couldn't.

What was the conversation about
dropping me off in the apartment?

What was that conversation?

Westfield or Lafayette?

We'll start with Westfield.

Again, conversation...

Just what happened.

You have to understand
there's not a lot of conversation,

there's a lot of dictating.

Did you know that she was...

getting me an ID?

Yes, I did.

At that point of time, legally your age
had been altered by the state.

You, like anybody else,
need to have an ID.

Okay.
Let's step back and...

What...
Whose idea was it?

Was what?

With the age change.

I did tell all these guys
we're not getting into that subject.

Why can't you say it?

- Did you guys not...
- Yes.

...cover these parameters?

I... I...
You know me.

- Not a good idea.
- I understand.

I need to step outside for a minute.

It's not like you guys are fighting.
And I know that...

Hey.

- Hi.
- Okay.

Michael doesn't want to talk
about changing my age.

Michael just left.
He was running away again.

You don't care.
Like, that's what I feel like.

They didn't care that they left a little
girl in an apartment at eight years old,

changed her whole
age from 8 to 22.

That's, like, a 15-year stretch.

Like, just admit it.

A lot of things would have been different,
if they would have...

maybe just sent me back.

There were some ground
rules going into this,

and one of them was that
the re-aging is off-topic.

That is off the table,
not to be discussed.

I just... I wanna stay away from things
that might be too emotionally...

But you know what though...

...touchy, that's all.

Okay. We can step away from that,
'cause I got a lot of questions.

Okay.

Why not just put me
up for adoption again?

Unfortunately, the real answer
for that lies in Evil's head.

I can make a couple assumptions
that are pretty good ones.

You're in that time after Florida

and before the Ciccones released you,
that six-month period,

where things just...
Something was wrong.

Something was off.

During that time, I had...

the conversation with the monster
about, "Look. Things aren't working right.

"Maybe this is no harm, no foul."

We don't have to do anything,
'cause you legally were still theirs.

"Maybe we just walk away from this
and... cool our jets."

And that was met with a very, very, very,
very, very, very, very, very stern "No."

Why?

The deeper "why"

and this is all
assumption and allegedly,

so make sure you guys are
putting the word "allegedly" over this,

like, in flashing letters, right?

She saw... the adoption,

especially the adoption of
somebody with special needs, as...

a societal thing.

The one thing we
can always count on,

is Evil sure does love
her some attention.

And some cameras,
and some eyes on her,

and people worshipping her.

She wrote out a full
one-page piece of paper once

explaining to me why
she qualifies for sainthood,

based on the two miracles
she's performed.

That's who we're dealing with.

So, when you're dealing
with that level of narcissist,

it's vaguely possible
that she saw the adoption

as a "Aren't
I a great person, everyone?

"Look at me.
Hey, neighbors! Look.

"I'm... I'm so wonderful.
I'm so wonderful. I'm so charitable."

She compared herself
to Oprah regularly.

She was gonna be the Oprah
for autistic kids.

I've heard this so many times.

So, my assumption is,

the reason that she
wouldn't undo where we were,

all those people that were, "Hey, look
at me. Look at me. Aren't I great?

"Wait, what do you mean where's
my newly adopted daughter?

"Oh, hell, I've got
to explain this."

Did she tell you why she
took me out of school?

She did.

I was told... that you were a danger
to the other students,

that you were ramming your
wheelchair into them on purpose,

that you had taken your parking brake off
the wheelchair and hid it, blah, blah...

We don't need to get into this, this is...
This is rough stuff.

She told me that she was
protecting other first grade children

by removing you from the class.

What I remember is Kristine telling me

that she was getting a phone call
at 9 o'clock every single day.

I couldn't say whether she was or
wasn't getting a phone call every day.

From my end of things,

she never told me she was
getting a phone call every day.

According to Kristine, she was getting
complaints from the school

that Natalia was intentionally ramming
her wheelchair into the students.

So during this parent teacher conference
were there any complaints made

that involved wheelchair incidents?

Yes, the teacher stated that Natalia
had hit children with the wheelchair.

She never once did that. That is
a thousand and ten percent false.

He behavior was
nothing but extraordinary.

- Did she ever cause you any problems?
- Oh, my gosh, no. She was a delight.

My teacher said I...
that she never had to call Kristine.

That I didn't do what Kristine
was claiming that I did. Nothing.

Nobody did any of the things
she accused everyone of doing.

Did you confront Natalia about hitting
people with her wheelchair?

Yes. Natalia stated,
"I want to hurt the other kids."

Did either of you ask her, "Why
do you want to hurt the other kids?"

- Yes.
- And what did she say?

"I don't like them."

Listen.

Michael and Kristine
took Natalia out of school

simply because
she did not belong there.

Even when she's
not with the Barnetts,

we have to remember

when Natalia lived with the Ciccones
she was home-schooled.

So, at every stop
that Natalia's been,

there are all these reports
about her abhorrent behavior.

The story Natalia wants
to push forward now is,

"I was a victim and I was
victimized by the Barnetts."

Natalia is a broken young lady

that's being fixed every day,

but Natalia is the sweetest, the happiest
little girl that I've ever met in my life.

Like, for everything she's been
through I just can't say it enough how...

how bright she is, how smart she is,

how happy she is,
how thankful she is,

how much she loves God.

Has Natalia ever been violent
in your house?

I would say she has been...

violent in a typical way,
like most kids do.

You know, most kids fight,
most kids argue.

But nothing unusual
to where there was just,

crazy unrest
in that sort of way.

There's nothing dangerous
about Natalia at all.

Absolutely not.

And then, here's the
big butthead of everybody's lives.

See, there she goes, being
a butthead, not even listening.

Okay, there's something I don't
wanna say, 'cause I think it will...

it might make her feel bad and she's
already felt bad about it, but...

and then, it's like...

Okay, I will only say
it if you don't tell her.

She beat me when I was a baby.

But the thing is,
she didn't know any better.

I mean, she did, but she said
it was, like, when she was 10.

And... she didn't really know.

Bye-bye!

The Mans took her to the hospital.
St. Franciscan.

And, you know, the report was,
she had harmed one of their children.

And that she had been disruptive
in the house, she had been violent.

And they wanted
to leave her there

and she wasn't welcome
back in their home.

And there was also
additional parts of that report

where Natalia wanted to take
a taxi to go back to the Mans

and, allegedly, when the
hospital reaches out to the Mans,

they're told, "She can't come back.
She's not welcome.

"We don't want her
calling us anymore."

These reports were
written by medical staff.

Psychologists, psychiatrists,
MDs, counselors, nursing staff.

When you look
at all the families

that she's been connected
to that we are aware of,

From the Ciccones, to
the Barnetts, to the Mans.

All of these families are
reporting similar instances

where Natalia has inflicted
harm on a family member.

Are we all saying that all of
these folks are wrong and are liars

and that Natalia is simply
this innocent bystander?

She's this innocent wallflower who's just
been victimized by all these families?

That defies logic.

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

I never even spoke with the hospital
people because she was an adult.

So they would not
let me in with her.

I feel like, Kristine definitely
must have called the hospital

and told them that
this is what happened

and all of these things
because those are not my words.

I don't know who drew that up,
who wrote that.

Because that was
not what's said.

- Can we go back a little bit?
- Go wherever you want.

Do you remember
the first time meeting me?

Yep, sure do.

Do you remember meeting the family
I was with before?

Never met them. They were in the room
across the hall from ours.

So we were each in this two little...

I consider them like,
"bedroom-esque thing" but little offices.

There was...
there was a hallway.

We got there before you did.

So we, Kristine, I, the boys,
are in this room.

We can hear the front door open.

We can hear voices, we hear
people walking down the hall.

And we hear people go into that room,
and we hear a voice saying,

"Well, just stay
there until you're ready."

The entire time, Jacob, Wesley, Ethan,
and I, are at this door

with our ears pressed
up against it, like this,

trying to hear
everything we can.

"That's your new sister.
That's our new daughter."

"What does she sound like?
Hey, we heard her voice!"

"What... What did she do?
"Hey, I think she said hi!" I just...

We're doing that.
Ethan goes and gets a glass.

Puts the glass against the wall.

We start looking
though the peep hole

to try to see if we
can see anything.

The boys spent the night making shirts.

"We love you, Natalia. Welcome home,
sister." They were so excited.

I remember everything
about the first day.

I remember that day too.

I remember sitting in a chair,

right across from
where you guys were.

But I also remembered Diane and Gary
coming in the room.

I never met them.

They never came out of the room.
They kept us totally separate.

The Adoption by Shepherd Care
people told us,

it was a closed adoption
and the surrendering family

did not want to share any information
with us and did not want to meet us.

We've never met.
I have never met Gary or Diane.

Well, I don't know
what that's about then.

I didn't know their names
until like a month later.

I remember...

Diane and Gary came out and they
told me that you guys wanted to see me.

But they never came out of the room
and talked to us. They just...

They came in, dropped you off.

Came back out, talked
to other people and... gone.

Natalia's six.
Does she really remember?

It's an event though, that, you know,
she's meeting "new parents"

that she really might remember.

She's leaving the old,
and meeting the new.

But what lends a little credence
to Natalia's version,

is that she remembers running into
them or seeing them at Disney World

while they were in Florida.

And saying, "Oh, you know, there's
Mommy." And Kristine saying, "No..."

I'm your mommy now.

That's really important.

Like that is a kind of little fact,

like, why would she make that up?

I mean, that, to me,
has a ring of truth.

Michael's adamant that he didn't even
know the Ciccones' name for a month,

that this was a closed adoption,

but we know he and Kristine had
Natalia's medical records

and the Ciccones' names
were in the medical records

from the time they adopted her.

And we know that because
the prosecutor told us that.

Jackie Starbuck told us that.

So, I don't know why he insists
upon continuing to say

it was a closed adoption.

So, somebody is mistaken or lying.

- I got a question for you.
- Yeah, I got lots of answers for you.

You might not like all of them,
but I got them.

I mean, look, what you got to say,
I'm gonna hear it, okay?

Do you remember
putting a lock on my door?

Yes. The latch. We were actually told
to do that by the doctors.

Do you remember what happened while
you were putting the lock on the door?

Nope.

So, you didn't realize that
Kristine was hitting me or...

At that moment?

Hitting me with a belt and letting the
boys hit me and letting Jacob drop me?

You didn't?

No.

Things relating to Jacob...

I didn't learn until two years
ago when Jacob came back.

And I just started
to learn those things.

He and I have been...

trying to figure out how
to mentally come to terms with

things that
she forced them to do.

He is so, so sorry.

He is so sorry.

And I have to keep reminding him

over and over and over
when we talk about this.

He was... a child who was
being forced to do it.

And it wasn't him. It...

In the last three years, Jacob
and I have probably cried together

over a hundred
times regarding...

this incident, or that
incident, or this incident.

There are... I wish I could tell you
a couple other things,

but I'm not allowed to tell you while
on camera and on a microphone.

I didn't tell them about
kicking down the stairs.

Well kicking down the stairs
we said we're not going to say, right?

My plan going into today
was to not tell them that.

And furthermore, I understand
there to be legal recourse to that.

And you know I'm not really looking
forward to like being subpoenaed.

You can't be subpoenaed.
You were a minor.

Oh, okay.

Some people took issue with the airing
of this off-camera conversation

that Michael and Jacob were having,
seemingly private

until they realized it's a hot mic.

But it was very revealing.

And it's important to get to the truth.

You were a minor,

you're in no danger whatsoever.

It shows Michael is
aware of the statute of limitations.

And this corroborates Natalia
when she says she was beaten.

But what's really revealing
about it to me is that,

they chose incidents
to talk about.

And left things out.

Michael's in control.

There's a lot of cross blinds
of who did what and when.

Everything that Kristine has ever
said or claimed, just assume is a lie.

The way Michael is talking,

is just like last time.

He made it about himself.

And pretty much blaming
everything on Kristine.

I'm here to hear Michael out.

But, like, I want Michael to know
how I feel about this.

I want everybody to know
exactly how this affected me.

I want him to know what
he did was completely wrong.

How did you even feel

when Kristine was beating me?

- Or--
- I will tell you specifically how I felt.

One day, I come
home from work and...

You know already what...

the air at home was.

And I came in,

you were... your nose
is on the wall in the kitchen.

And Kristine got up,

and she just looked at me,

"Back your wife up!"

And she went, grabbed you off the wall.
She yanked you pretty good.

You're over there
and she gets you to here.

"Stay out of my way or you'll
never see your sons again."

And she launches you on the ground.

And the usual.

"Who are you?
Where have you been?"

And she's wailing.

I'm stunned from what's going on.
I'm just... I'm shocked.

I'm frozen in fear.

And I know for a
fact, if I do anything,

I never see Wesley, Ethan,
or Jacob ever again.

And I hate to put it to you
in that fashion,

but I just wanted to have
my family all together.

So I start recording it.

And the only thing I can
think is, if I could just show her,

"Look at this.
This is abhorrent."

I'm just thinking maybe I could just
show it to her and she'll see how...

bad she is and she'll stop.

She'll realize she's gone too far
and she'll stop.

Except, she's crazy.
And logic's not gonna work.

So, when she's done, she
takes you up to your room,

while she's up there, I get my phone
and I hit play on it so I could look at it

and... it's just...
disgusting.

Unfortunately,
while I'm looking at it,

she showed up right behind me

and if I ever want
to see my kids again,

I have to reset my phone right now
in front of her and delete everything.

Michael, again,
was making up excuses.

That really hurts.

Instead of being a dad,
he was a coward.

To me, Michael is guilty.

Because he let it happen.

What made you guys...

Like what made the doctors say
that I was schizophrenic and...

You told them you were hearing voices.

- You know why?
- I know now.

But at that time I did not.

At that time you gotta understand
the only thing I know is...

I'm coming home and there are
a lot of things being said that...

Really you all saying
the exact same thing?

Okay...

And I don't really wanna repeat some
of the things that were... said.

I don't think there's no need for it,
do you?

Are they like...

Anything that... that you had said
the entire time, we don't...

You know what she said
and I know what she said.

We don't get to talk about that.

I want to hear what you mean.

You were telling therapists and Kristine
and I that you were hearing voices.

Again, knowing what I know now I might
know what the source of that came from,

but you got to understand, all I know is,
you're telling me you're hearing voices,

they're telling me you are hearing voices,

the therapist is saying
you are hearing voices,

these documents from the Stress Center,
that the doctors have written out

are saying the words
you are hearing voices.

What am I suppose to believe?

Whenever Kristine would take me to a
mental hospital, or a stress center,

she was always telling me to tell them
"that you're hearing voices,

"that you wanna hurt yourself,
and that you wanna hurt other people."

And me being like seven years old,
I'm like...

I don't know what this means, but it's
something that my mom told me to say.

I have to believe that and go with that.

Kristine's not my mom.

High five.
Up top.

There you go.

I stopped calling her my mother

the moment that she just started doing
everything, started saying everything.

- She was never my mom!
- She's evil.

One time, when she was mad,

Kristine put me in a pink dress

and she literally told me
to stand still like a gnome.

I think I was actually doing
a little bit of schoolwork.

I didn't get a question right
or something like that.

And then, she moved the chair
into like, the front of the window,

like there was like, big window,
that was in the dining room.

She literally made
me a cone hat,

gave me an apple,
put me in a pink dress,

and told me I had to stand still
like a gnome.

Just stand there. I can't lean
on the back of the chair, nothing.

I just had to stand
there like a gnome.

Like, literally, I
had to be like this.

Apple was in my hand,
just stand right here.

Just like a garden gnome.

Like, she literally told me
I couldn't move, nothing.

And I was there until
Michael got home from work.

Which was, it was
starting to get dark.

Neighbors were driving by,
nobody stopped and said anything.

Put me in a pink dress and told me
I had to stand still like a gnome.

I've read an exchange that was
in the court file part of discovery.

This person close to Kristine,

asks her, "How's the midget?"

And Kristine says, "Still weird."

Think about that.

What does that tell you about Kristine
and like, where her head is at?

It's really unbelievable that
she had this organization

that was dedicated to helping raise
awareness about disabled people,

who were experiencing
physical and verbal abuse

and here she is, I...
I read it! She's engaging in this.

In the same conversation, they're
talking about little people as gnomes.

Keep them away.

Like, what are you talking about?

Did Kristine hate me
because of my dwarfism?

That's how crazy it is.
Like, you wouldn't think about that.

You would not think, "I'm gonna dress
this person up as a gnome." What?

I think Natalia
had a very rough upbringing.

However, at some level,

Natalia has to be aware and accountable
for her own behavior.

When we look at the reports
from the Larue Carter Hospital,

there's a central
theme to all of this.

And that theme has to do
with sexual promiscuity.

There are third party
accounts of these reports.

While Natalia was
at the state mental hospital,

Kristine and I had gotten phone
calls from Larue Carter after a while.

She is propositioning men
who are mental patients

for sexual activity,

and it's disturbing them
and she can't be here.

Those are the exact words.

She was on a table and there were
a bunch of male patients there.

And she was talking to them
about being a boyfriend.

What?

I don't even
remember none of that.

Like, I was a kid in an
adult section of a hospital.

And...

Like, I, I don't even remember
really being around guys like that.

So I don't know where
all of this is coming from.

I don't ever remember
talking about having a boyfriend

or wanting a boyfriend.

Natalia told me that she
was in a mental hospital.

And they told her
after a full evaluation,

the doctors came and said they
couldn't find nothing wrong with her.

She was a normal child.

But as far as
acting out in other ways?

She could have been acting out
for attention.

I mean, she was a child.

She probably wanted to get
attention however she could.

You know, she could have
been acting out to make friends.

She could have been acting out
to gets some adults that seen her

to realize, "Hey,
I'm struggling here.

"Like, I don't know
what to do on my own."

It's like, if there is a possibility
that I did say sexual comments,

I probably heard that from somebody.

'Cause I was really little and, like,
I was at that stage where, like,

not understanding what it is,
but I wanna say it

because I heard somebody else say it
so I'm thinking, it's okay to say it.

The truth is that,

I feel like I got exposed to sexual stuff
at a really young age.

In fact, like, Kristine tried
to set me up on a date

at seven years old
with a grown man.

Who knows what
could have happened?

Stuff happened while I was
in that Westfield apartment.

I got exposed to sexual stuff.

I...

Kristine never taught me
how to take care of myself.

Kristine never taught me
anything about stranger danger or...

She told me she did.

Did you know that she
was putting make-up on me?

No.

One day, I was playing in my room.

Kristine came in and she just sat
me down on the floor in the kitchen

and she cut my hair.

She cut it off all the
way to, like, right here.

Like, shoulder-length.

And then, I remember
Kristine did my make-up.

Did you know that she was trying
to make me look like an adult?

She can create drama out of the most
innocent or benign situation.

Such as a mother
dressing up her daughter.

You have Kristine Barnett
doting over her only female child.

If I factor in the
personality of Natalia,

it's easy for me to see how she
can turn something so innocent

into something more nefarious.

That's crazy.

Just seeing this?

This is crazy.
This is, like, too much.

I'm seven years old,
I shouldn't even have make-up on.

When she did the make-up,

she literally told me,

"This is what an adult looks like.

"When a kid does their make-up,
they look like a clown."

Did you know that she was sending
them to a guy,

trying to get me put me on a date?

No.

I just found that out
three or four weeks ago.

It sounds like Kristine maybe,
you know, wanting to take pictures of her

to send to Freddie Gill

or whoever she was trying
to set up Natalia on a date with.

Thank God Freddie told Kristine,
"Absolutely, no way!"

Kristine tried to set me up with a
guy when I was seven years old.

With a grown man.

What if the guy raped me?

Like, he could have did anything.
He could have kidnapped me.

He could have murdered me.

And, when she did that,

you were in the
Westfield apartment, right?

- No, I was still in the house.
- You were still in the house? Holy!

No, I didn't know that.

Did you ever have to speak
to any of these people

or meet any of these people?

No. I don't remember
talking to anybody.

I didn't even know she was doing
that until I found out when I was...

2019 maybe?

Michael doesn't know
anything about this, apparently.

That may be true.

I do believe that there are
things that went on in that house

between Kristine and Natalia
that Michael's unaware of.

I'm sorry that was your experience.

So it's possible
he didn't know,

and that he's hearing
it for the first time

'cause he seems pretty
sincere and apologetic.

I'm sorry that they didn't
have the wherewithal

to press the right
charges in the right place.

Like, they could still get her
right now if they wanted to.

Then again,
he is a good salesman.

Michael is an
accomplice to the monster.

Because he went along with
everything that Kristine said.

I've had nightmares.

I've cried myself to sleep.

For years after.

Nobody listened.

You know what you did was wrong,

but you're trying to
keep it under wraps.

He still let me be alone with Kristine.

Everything that Kristine told him,
he told the world like he was there.

She'd been diagnosed a sociopath.
Con artist, grown up.

She was gonna kill everybody.

But now he's switching up, saying,
"I don't even remember what...

"I don't know what happened."

I have a lot of suspicions that
I can't prove, but I'm sure are there.

I lived through it. Every time
I talk about it, I live through it.

You sound guilty with that.

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