All language subtitles for S&man (2006).eng

Eric rost: What
the heck is that?

( Men chuckling )

Do you know what's
on the screen right now?

J.t. Petty: No,
tell me about it.

Uh...

Wow, there's like, uh...

What is that?

And \"oh my god,
what am I doing?

What am I about to do?
Who's going to be killed?\"

it looks like a dead body.
And somebody's... well, no.

That's just a bit too aberrant
to me. It's almost psychotic.

I'd never seen
anything like that before.

You know that it's
not normal. It's not...

Why would somebody
do harm to themselves?

A lot of these films
encroach on the pornographic.

- Rost: That's real.
- Petty: That was real?

There's no way for you to look
at what's going on right now?

It almost feels like I'm a
necrophiliac, you know.

Something that people
find titillating and interesting.

Right.

And I just really couldn't
watch it... what she was doing.

No, that was just being
raped by the monster.

\"oh god, woman,
what are you doing?\"

- it was...
- Couples being forced...

I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
Can we start over?

I'm funny.

Did you shoot
this all? 'Cause...

Petty: This is gonna be cheesy

because I have
a voiceover voice.

Like, if I was Todd solondz,
this would be so much better.

Um...

( Chuckles ) Okay, that'll work.

I make my living
making scary movies.

But this is going to
be about scary movies.

It starts with a story
from my childhood

on the outskirts of
Washington, D.C..

In 1990, when I was 13,

one of our neighbors
noticed a small red light

outside of his bathroom window.

He investigated

and found a v.H.S.
Camcorder in his backyard

pointed into his home.

He called the police, who
traced the camera back to a man

who lived three
houses down from mine.

When they raided his house

they found 191
long-play v.H.S. Tapes.

He had been secretly
recording people for months,

had captured the entire course
of one woman's pregnancy.

He was indicted
but never charged.

When the town learned that
the tapes would have to be

screened publicly in court,

it was communally
decided to drop the charges.

The peeping Tom moved
back into the same house

he lived in before the incident,

where he still lives now.

In 2005 I sold hdnet films

on the idea of making a
documentary about the peeping Tom,

and the effect his
story had on me.

It would be about
sympathy, point of view,

and how voyeurism relates to
my own love for horror movies.

And to be honest, I
admired the peeping Tom.

He had made movies that
were not only frightening

and titillating but real.

And on top of that,
he got away with it

simply because when
his crime was exposed,

nobody wanted
to look that closely.

Hdnet gave me a
camera and a budget

and I started tracking
down scholars, psychiatrists

and underground
horror filmmakers.

And I started courting
the peeping Tom.

But after six months of
wheedling and cajoling,

he told me that he absolutely
would not appear in the movie.

When I asked him if he was sure,

he started his chainsaw
and said that yes, he was.

But by this point

I had spent more of hdnet's
money than I could pay back,

so I needed to come
up with a movie.

Man: We'll complete
a documentary.

( Woman screams )

Man #2: A documentary?
What's it about?

I'd rather not tell
you until it's finished.

And it will be soon.

I don't think of
this as a horror film.

I think of it as a film
that's about horror film.

It's about how
you look at movies

and the two gazes that
get kind of activated...

The sadistic gaze
of the filmmaker

and the masochistic
gaze of the person

into whose eyes
these images are going.

( Screams )

\ "Texas chain saw\"...

That's the first modern
horror movie I ever saw, okay?

And that is the
one I saw on a dare.

That plot of a
bunch of teenagers,

you know, finding themselves
in some place with terrible killers,

and they get picked
off one by one,

and the question is
who's next, who's next,

who's next and
who's gonna survive?

That plot was fresh in '74
with \ "Texas chain saw.\"

already by the time we get \
"Halloween, \" it's already happened.

Woman: Michael.

Dr. Clover: This is the first
true final-girl slasher movie.

We are with the woman
for the last third of that film,

our narrative
sympathy is with her

and to a considerable
extent the visual sympathy.

Man on TV: Come
on in and say hi.

Oh, \"Henry, portrait
of a serial killer.\"

- man: Say hi, Henry.
- No more, Otis.

Even when I finished my
book, which came out in '92,

there was a sea
change happening.

The so-called sadistic
kind of filmmaking is...

Seems to me to have kicked
in big time after \ "Henry.\"

petty: A few weeks
after I interviewed Carol,

we went to the
chiller convention.

It's a monster geek
meet-and-greet

and a marketplace
for underground horror.

What draws fans is the
possibility of finding movies

that cross a line most
people won't approach.

Like I had hoped to find
with the peeping Tom,

I thought chiller could be a
source of truly dangerous movies.

Man over megaphone: Check
out his new film \ "the crucifier.\"

first he nails you,
then he nails you.

- Petty: I'm looking for...
- wait, did you say exploitation?

- I said exploitation.
- Syn, rise.

( Chuckles )

I exploit her.

Man over megaphone:
Great deals on monster toys.

Stop by the amok time table

here in the main ballroom.

Woman: The image of
the living dead person

who sleeps in a coffin
and gets up at night

to drink blood...
That's more fiction.

But there is a factual vampire
that exists in its own right

the same way as an
angel or a fairy would exist.

\"undertow, \" \"I spit on your
corpse, I piss on your grave, \"

\"reconciliation
of the Christ, \"

\"bloodsucking
redneck vampires.\"

uncut, unadulterated
fun. There you go.

You are such a dirty girl.

Bill zebub: I do eventually
plan to make real horror,

or sexploitative horror, like
\ "Frankenstein the rapist.\"

that's what I'm working on.

To sell a story like \
"Frankenstein, \" you have to act...

- Petty: Sure. You know...
- And have boobs.

This one was done...

And the whole idea
again is where...

These two were real kind
of wacko lesbian whatevers...

The camera doesn't
interfere at all,

so, you know, whatever
happens happens.

( Mock screaming )

You know, just...

- J.t..
- J.T.? I'm Eric.

Eric, nice to meet you.

And I guess you guys are
crew guys who don't get names.

- This is Patrick and Marc.
- Nice to meet you.

So you direct these?

Yeah, I'm the writer, director,

editor. Sometimes I'm in it.

You know, it's not
snuff, but, you know,

- it looks close to it.
- ( Chuckles ) Okay.

Rost: Well, it's just...

It's like a stalker
movie, you know.

And I did one before.

There was an episode
where I strangled...

Out of nowhere I got more
requests for stranglings.

Man: There's shit on my hands.

Man: Fucking cut it off, man.

Huh? Is it true?

Fred Vogel: I'm the director
of \ "August underground\"

and the cofounder
of toe tag pictures.

There's slasher, you
know. There's monsters.

There's boo-factor movies

where it's just a bunch
of jumps and scares.

This \ "ultra snuff\" stuff

that the \ "August underground\"
movies are is its own little branch.

And there are movies
out there that do it.

You're watching the personal
home video of a serial killer.

You're watching what
they want to show you.

If they want to film a piece
of dogshit for two minutes,

they're gonna film it and
you're gonna watch it.

\"fourth edition text revision.

Diagnostic criteria
for voyeurism, 302.82.

Criteria a... over a period
of at least six months

recurrent, intense
sexually-arousing fantasies,

sexual urges or behaviors

involving the act of observing
an unsuspecting person

who is naked, in the
process of disrobing

or engaging in sexual activity.

And criterion b is the person

has acted on these sexual urges,

or the sexual
urges or fantasies,

caused marked distress
or interpersonal difficulty.\"

they're sort of the ground
zero of filmmaking in a way.

I think that whatever
the emotional responses

that get engaged by cinema

are just going on
big time in horror.

It's tangible, as
opposed to being airy.

I mean, if you talk about
some good-high film,

it's easy to avoid

the visceral relation one
has to movies in general.

We've got mainstream
stuff going on over here,

which is not even, in a
way, horror or only loosely so

or doesn't have any power
as horror as nearly as I can tell.

And then there's
underground stuff

which I haven't
kept much track of,

but which seems to be
much... Very raw stuff.

Petty: Some of the
people I met at chiller

had seen my first
movie \ "soft for digging.\"

the story I tell people
about screening that movie

was my mom's reaction. She said,

\"everybody's going to say
it was his mother's fault.\"

it's a slow-paced movie,
but I get a lot of credit

because we kill
children and animals.

I'm not sure how
I feel about that.

So much of underground horror

is about how far
you're willing to go.

( Laughs )

Well, the plant
where I replicate...

I'm known as bill zebub.

I can cash checks as bill zebub.

That's all you need to know.

I've been rejected
by every film festival,

'cause... look at me... do I
look like I could make a movie?

Like I said, I'm not
a cinematographer.

I don't shoot these movies
to be a piece of cinema.

I shoot it so perverts
give me money. ( Laughs )

You know, I have
this army of girls,

this reservoir, this
pool I draw from.

I don't know. Have you seen
anybody doing what I do?

Even though you don't care
because the movie sucks,

you will jerk off watching this
movie. Expect nothing else.

And it better not be a
part when I'm in the frame.

( Chuckles )

I don't care.

- Petty: Exactly like what the...
- ( Knocks on door )

Yeah.

Debbie d.: I'm not one
of the scream queens,

or one of the, you
know, filmmakers

that have another
job they come to,

where they just do this on
the weekend. This is all I do.

A scream queen is

known today

as a girl that screams,

takes her clothes
off and runs around.

( Laughs )

It just kind of happened. \"do
you want to be in this b movie?\"

and I was excited, but
they said I had to go topless.

And that kind of threw
me off. I'm like, \ "oh.\"

I didn't mind personally running
around naked. It's okay with me.

I was lured in, and \
"scream queen magazine\"

had me at their
table six months later.

And then the fan mail started
to come in and more movies.

Then all of a sudden
at different interviews

I was scream queen Debbie d.

And then I said, \"oh well,
I guess that's what I am.\"

petty: So tell us your name.

Rost: My name is Eric.

Petty: And what's the
movie that you made?

I'm the maker of the
\ "s&man\" series.

Currently what I
have out... Is 11 parts.

And I got four others that
I'm working on right now.

Each chapter
has a different girl.

Her name was carlina.

And I st...

Stalked her for a while
and watched her life.

And her life got, you
know, disappeared.

And...

Yeah, and then I kill her.

You know, a couple
knives to the stomach.

We've tried a gunshot.

I've hung a girl
before. That was fun.

I've used a... like a zip cord.

Have you ever seen
one of those, like...

Like a cable tie or
something like that?

Yeah. That was fun, yeah.

( Chuckles ) I mean,
think about that.

Even if your hands
were free to claw at it,

it's like this plastic

that you can't break
unless you've got a blade.

I love movies.

And, you know, I'm sort of like

a filmmaker, you know.

Horror used to be more
embedded in narrative.

There used to be
more of a storyline,

and we less and less
seem to need that.

It's not that I want to let
these films off the hook,

because I'm very
suspicious, actually, of them.

And they worry
me, some of them...

But what it means
about the culture I live in,

that it's making these movies

and that people seem
to be liking these movies.

- Man: Motherfucker!
- ( Crying )

I've seen rather
little of that stuff.

I really can't take it.

Petty: Can't comment
too much on it?

Well, yeah, I
just... it's not...

I find it so unpalatable.

I have limits on
what I can watch.

- ( Whimpers )
- I love her.

Man: Get a few beers and shit.

Petty: The films of Fred
Vogel are some of the hardest

and most heavily sought-after
in the underground world.

He wasn't at the
chiller convention,

so a few weeks later
we arranged to meet.

Vogel: When I made the movie

and tried to put it out
there, it really caught a nerve

because it looked too real,

and people were kind
of scared of the film.

- Hey, Fred.
- Yeah?

It's j.T.

How's it going, man?

- Good. How are you doing?
- Good.

The only people you can get the \
"August underground\" movies are from us.

We're just trying to
keep it, you know, home.

They're too rough to be in
st... you know what I mean?

- Petty: Right.
- So we just want to keep it here with us.

Petty: Who's the girl
with blood on her tits?

Vogel: That is my fiancee.

( Laughs )

Vogel: We just want to spread
our sickness to the world,

you know what I mean?
We just want to, you know...

Sicken and disturb.

Dr. Clover: People
have different psyches

and people have different
appetites, you know.

But if I can speak for
kind of a majority viewer,

I think people...

The pleasure of
this kind of horror

is that you can
get close to these

really unacceptable feelings

without actually...

And be able to disavow them

because you know
that it's a fiction.

Oh, there's no auditions so...

Uh, I don't...

I sort of follow
them for a little while

and see how they look
on camera, you know,

to give them, like, a
screen test kind of thing.

- Without telling them?
- Yeah, without telling them.

So, you know... and
then I'll introduce myself,

you know, at a certain time.

Invasive? I'm sorry.

Petty: Yeah, it's aggressive.

Yeah, well, I guess
you could say that.

But i'm... I'm not really...

I'm just sort of watching them

just like, you know,

you're watching
me with the camera.

Petty: Yeah, but I asked you.

Right.

But I saw you walking
around downstairs

and you were just sort
of surveying the place.

Petty: While I was still trying
to convince the peeping Tom

to take part in the movie,

I went looking for advice at
a center for sexual deviance.

Dr. Kaplan: When we're
talking about paraphilia,

a paraphilia is a
sexual disorder.

For most paraphilias

it's shameful

and it's illegal behavior.

And most people are
enjoying what they're doing,

so that they don't seek
help for this behavior,

so that they come into contact

with professionals such as us

usually through a mandate
from the legal system.

The act of voyeurism is looking.

It's looking at an object.

It's not interacting
with a person

or getting to know a person.

It's really objectifying the
woman that you're looking at.

Right now I'm trying
to actually cross over.

I've done the b, done
the b, done the b...

Which I love, and I love
independent filmmaking...

But I always thought that
someone's gonna come along and say,

\"oh, I want you to
play with Goldie hawn.\"

you know, and at the award
shows, like, \ "she's so good.\"

\"yeah, well, I've had
a lot of experience.\"

once you step over
and you're good,

eventually it's gonna catch on.

So I plan on doing,
like, really big movies.

( Laughs )

- Now?
- Go for it. Action.

Okay, so I like to explain to
people that say, you know,

\"I can't imagine someone
having a paraphilia or an interest.

It's so creepy, \"

or \"it's something I
can't relate to at all\"...

Whereas most people can
relate to feeling depressed.

But this is something
a lot of people say...

\"I can't relate to this. Why would
you even do this kind of work?\"

and I say, \"it's as if...

If you were a heterosexual man,

and you liked petite
blondes with blue eyes,

and that's who you
were attracted to,

and one day I came along
and said, 'you know what?

You have to like tall men over
250 lbs. That's the law now.'\"

so, you know, you
would just be bewildered.

( Screaming )

Now that's a tight fit.

Custom tapes are
when anyone wants to...

They have an idea,

they want it acted out

and they want to pick
certain actors for it.

And we make it
come to life for them.

I guess it's called a
genre of the fetish market.

Pies in the face. The guy just
wanted to see pies in the face.

And then there's people
who like quicksand.

So we made a pit to look as
much like quicksand as we could.

Yeah, nothing
x-rated. I... they don't...

( dramatic music playing )

Sometimes they're full stories.

Usually someone's getting
hacked to death or strangled.

Who are you? What
are you doing here?

( Screams )

Oh, my crotch!

( Screams )

Oh, my navel. My navel!

You're like \"oh, I'm hot.

Might as well take my top off.\"

so it doesn't ever
go with the story,

it just kind of... just happens.

You know, a girl
with her nipple cut off,

or smearing shit into an
open wound. Being vomited on.

Injecting fecal matter
into a girl's labia.

Just running around
naked, covered in blood.

Upside down like a pig.

Rotted meat. Missing his penis.

Flies and just the stench.

Slitting her throat.
To humiliate them.

Having sex with the
wound. They're pieces of shit.

And like, \ "ugh, god.\" you're
done watching this movie

and you just want
to take a bath.

Like what I'm watching
right here is, you know,

you see, like, the
chopped-off penis

being rubbed up against
her vagina and stuff.

I mean, that's pretty hard core.

- This movie's not getting into best buy.
- ( Petty chuckles ) Yeah.

Dr. Clover: The
movie is hurting us.

Petty: Right, almost
being in the victim's eyes.

Yeah, and having
our eyes penetrated.

Having our soul... our selves
penetrated via our eyes.

\ "Texas chain saw\"
has a lot of those shots.

That's what I have on
the cover of my book,

by the way, to make
the point that that is,

I believe, the essential
experience of horror film...

Is being borne
down upon by a killer.

And borne down
upon very often means

stared at, possessed visually.

Me personally...
I don't get scared

when we're making the movie

except for just the fact

that things not going right
and just being anxious.

But for her...

I just, you know, feel bad.

Petty: When I saw my
first episode of \ "s&man, \"

it was back-to-back with
\ "August underground, \"

bill zebub's movies, Debbie d's

and a half-dozen others.

I wasn't watching closely enough

to see what was really going on.

When I used the term \ "horror\"

and talked about
horror as a genre,

I didn't fully
appreciate at that point

the breadth of that term

and the fact that it
was not only about

being in the victim position,

being terrorized
and being scared,

but that it was also about being

in the assaultive or
the sadistic position

and feeling revulsion
at your own actions

and disgust at the mayhem

that you have created
with your own hands.

Rost: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Rost: The character in the movie

sort of does a voodoo,

like, ritual kind of stuff.

And it sort of like
erases the character...

You know, the girl character...

So she doesn't exist.

You're not really
killing somebody.

You're just sort of

killing this character.

It's just... It's
all a character.

The whole movie...
Everybody's a character.

I'm a character in the movie.

Hey, carlina.

Carlina.

Carlina, it's
Eric... Third grade.

You don't... you don't...

- you don't remember me? Third grade?
- No.

Third grade.

I was a lot skinnier back then.

You need a ride or
something like that?

It looks like you're sort
of just walking around.

Yeah.

- Where are you going?
- Home.

Okay.

You still live at the
same old place?

Yeah.

What's the matter?
You got shit in your ears?

The black-and-white is $50.

This scene is one of those
scenes that's driven by revenge.

The man is so utterly obnoxious

that you want something
bad to happen to him.

( Screaming )

This is the murder scene.

It's... it's pretty brutal.

Plug it in.

He's a teacher.

He's a murder
professor. ( Laughs )

I think the distress is then

\ "we took their side, \"

and that side ends up being

this horrible,
murderous, sadistic side.

On the other hand it means to be

a real psychological portrait

and it means to be
a kind of an account

of how people become this way.

I mean, big time sexual
losers... both of them.

Zebub: Reviewers are cowards...

I mean the positive reviews.

It's kind of sad that
people have reviewed

\ "kill the scream queen\"
as a legitimate movie,

and they're comparing
the rape scenes

to movies like
\ "irreversible.\"

I don't know if you're
familiar with that.

It was the first rape scene
I ever saw that wasn't sexy.

( Both laugh )

Can't jerk off to that one.

Sorry, that was just
a little too realistic.

You were talking about
realistic. Yeah, that's...

Okay, I don't identify
with the rapist,

and I'm reeling in the tangent.

What I was trying
to say before is

the rape just is a
little more exciting.

I don't know why.

It can even have
less body parts,

just the drama of it.

But at no time am I fooled
that this is really a rape.

Why do I have it in the movies?

Because chiller theater
has taught me the rewards

of putting a rape
scene in the movie.

Bill zebub... when I was at
a chiller theater convention

and I had my own table, he
happened to be right next to me.

He asked me if I wanted
to be a part of his movies.

He said, \"if this isn't
too much, let me know.\"

and I'm thinking, \"can
anything be too much for me?\"

you know, unless
we're talking about x,

I'd do just about anything.

I'm not sure what it is
with the crosses with him.

So I'm roped up there,
and I'm like \"okay,

why don't we have these lines
going?\" but you just cool out,

and the cross is
sticking in your back.

I think he'd really
rather nail you there.

He's gonna kill me.

♪ This is Satan's ball! ♪

\ "kill the scream
queen\"... I know it's a spoof.

I'm going to burp
now. ( Burps ) Sorry.

I don't want to
single anybody out,

but there are people who
make these fake snuff movies

or these damsel-
in-distress movies,

and from knowing all
these scream queens,

I hear their tales.

Some people
seem normal at first,

but then as the email
exchanges progress,

the people get crazier.

The audition is a massage.

The audition would be naked...

Both her and the director.

Sexual content is encouraged.

I like to work with
people who I trust,

especially when you're
making something so graphic,

so real and intense.

We use safety
words, like in bondage,

because they're screaming,
\ "no! Help me! Stop!\"

how do you know,
really, when to stop?

So we made sure that
we had a safety word,

like \"yellow, \" \"banana\"
or something like that.

These guys would drink
sometimes to loosen up.

They knew that they
could go in and be killed

and be put into that situation

where you're a victim,

but you know nothing really
is gonna happen to you.

But in the back of your head

there's that thing going
\"could it really happen?

What if, you know,
Fred is full of shit

and really hits me

with a real hammer
instead of a fake one?\"

to me those are the people
who know how to die the best,

those are the people
who know how to...

- because they want it so bad.
- Hmm.

I think the custom videos...

Some of the people seem
like they're a little bit...

But producers and directors...

I think we're all a little off,

just to be doing this stuff.

I've not been afraid... If
that's what you mean...

Going somewhere. Maybe been
afraid, working with producers,

or them going a little too far

and you're not really sure
if it's gonna to become real,

like a snuff kind of thing...

Snuff films.

Some people have said that this
one or that one have been weird,

- be careful of them.
- ( Petty speaks )

- No, I didn't.
- ( Both laugh )

I figured... you
came from bill zebub,

I've worked with him
before so you must be okay.

- ( Pants ) - There are
crazy people out there,

and they don't look crazy.

I was a counselor
for schizophrenics.

That may horrify some people.

By the way, I did the follow up

to \"kill the scream
queen, \" \"the crucifier.\"

\"the crucifier\" is what \"Jesus Christ,
serial rapist\" was supposed to be.

Jesus is masturbating
through the hole in his hand

and I had a psychotic episode.

That's why hippies
should be killed.

I would not... regret

watching a hippy being
killed on \ "traces of death.\"

that's a tangent.
I will stop myself.

( Petty speaks )

- Vogel: Yes.
- You fuckers!

I had my... from my grandmother,

who was 81 at
the time in the film,

and she got killed,

to my brother, my cousin...

I needed her help.

I really wanted to have
an old woman in the scene.

I stab her with an apple peeler

and take out her dentures.

You know, she's my hugest fan.

Anything. If I needed
her to take off her top

and do something, she'd do it.

Dr. Clover: Our gaze is
the murderous gaze here.

The minute you see some high
school girls primping and looking cute,

you know those girls will die.

I mean already, before the...

It's as though the
guys in the theater

already feel rejected
by those young women,

even as they walk in the door.

There's some ready-made
anger toward them.

I think the whole slasher
tradition is made for nerds.

You know, it's like
outsmarting all the people

who are...

The people who are trying to

push you down and keep
you in a box pretty much.

You sort of outwit them,

sort of one-up them and
kill them at the same time.

Make them pay for all the
crap they've done to you.

( Speaks )

( Plastic bag rustling )

( Gear shift clicks )

Among the
paraphilias in general,

90% of individuals

who have paraphilias are men.

- They are very shy.
- ( Birds chirping )

In general they're very shy

and insecure.

There are real
deficits in skills,

in assertiveness,
in social skills.

So they're looking

but they can't go any
further, even if they want to.

They've been rejected by
women that they've approached,

so there's an anger at
not being able to get close.

So this is a way
of getting close

and being in a
position of power.

- \ "she can't hurt
me...\" - petty: Right.

- \"...so I can still have
her...\" - ( Sobbing )

\"...and I'm not
vulnerable to her.\"

I don't think there's
a huge market

for... for male victims.

I don't want to go into...

I don't even know about...

I think every
person is a bit lonely.

You know?

But the guys at the chiller
convention, myself included,

we're, uh...

We're a bunch of guys who aren't
all that successful with the ladies.

Petty: And does...

( Laughing ) Uh,

I don't know. Maybe.

Yeah, I guess it does a little,

'cause you get to see a girl...

I don't know. I guess so.

And they said,

\"do you mind? In this scene,

you'll have to be roped
up and duct-taped.\"

I went, \ "okay.\"

I was like \ "oh, no.\"

but they were nice.
They took duct tape,

and they put some
type of toilet tissue

or something paper
on there that stuck

so when they put it on
you it really wasn't sticking.

It was tight enough to look
like it was sticking, but it wasn't.

I was like, \"why didn't we
think of that all these years?\"

in the b world,
it's real that way:

You're really roped up;
You have the handcuffs on,

it's cutting into you;

your arm's falling asleep;

the water's cold, it's dirty;

you have to go to the bathroom;

you're hungry; You're thirsty.

It's like you're almost being kidnapped
and tortured doing the movies.

( Whimpers )

( Sobbing )

Petty: Do you stay
in touch with the girls?

Oh no. No, I don't really
hear from them much,

'cause we've sort
of finished shooting,

and then we sort of don't keep
in contact much afterwards.

But of the 11
victims that I've had,

none of them have been pregnant.

- ( Petty laughs )
- Yeah.

Debbie: What are you exploiting?

What would it be?

Exploiting the actor that's
portraying what's written?

Or the producer that's
making the actor portray...

Nobody's making
anybody do anything.

I think that if someone's doing
something against their will

and they don't want to do it,
or the director's making them

do something, then
get out, you know?

And if I've experienced
it and it is pretty painful,

I might put a monetary
value on it if I do it again.

But I think everything I've done

I would do again.

( Grunts )

( Screams )

'Cause if you ever have seen
any of the shockumentary footage,

it's just very boring
to watch real deaths.

In a movie, it looks
exciting, it's dramatic,

it's got this music...
It's got everything.

But just seeing that
handheld shaky camera,

it's almost dehumanizing.

To what extent is horror simply
being taken out of your skin?

You don't know who you are,
you don't know where you are,

you don't know what you're
doing there and why you're looking.

And one senses that in horror,

that one is being made to witness
things you don't want to see,

but you're also made to
witness it from weird places.

Petty: For me, \
"soft for digging\"

was an exercise
in point of view.

Half the movie is through
the eyes of the witness,

the other half through
the eyes of the victim.

I wanted an audience
to experience the horror

of seeing something terrible

that you can't convince
anybody else is real.

( Crickets chirping )

It was going to be
screened in Brooklyn,

and I was on my
way back to attend.

This was the point
where the peeping Tom

from my childhood
had turned me down.

I didn't have a focus for
my new movie anymore.

I wasn't even
sure I had a movie.

( Applause )

Man over P.A.: So that is
the end of the show tonight.

This is j.T. Petty,

the director of \
"soft for digging.\"

( rost speaks )

( Speaks )

( Rost speaks )

( Speaks )

( Rost speaks )

( Speaks )

( Rost speaks )

( Speaks )

( Rost speaks )

( Speaks )

( Rost speaks )

( Speaks )

( Rost speaks )

( Mumbles )

To the what? What
are we jumping to?

- Petty: The home invasion.
- Oh, the home invasion. Okay.

- ( Screaming )
- ( Man laughs )

- Man #2: Please! Please!
- Man: Shut up!

( Shouting )

Dr. Clover: We're
extremely aware that

that camera is
alone on the floor.

And in some sense,
we're seeing...

We are in the camera.
The question is,

is an abandoned
camera a possible position

for the audience to be in?

Can we identify with a
disembodied camera?

I think the answer
is yes, actually.

I think we are always
somehow identified,

not with this
machine, the camera,

but with... we sort of personify

whatever space the camera is in.

I think we're implicated
pretty seriously

in this particular gaze
at this violence as well.

We break inside
this girl's house

and all of us take turns,
you know, raping her.

I mean, I knew this girl...

She was cris's roommate
from downstairs.

You know, I had to go in there,

and my unit slapping against
her... you know what I mean?

But you just gotta
do what you have do

just to make it look real.

And I would sit in my
car and listen to Chicago,

I would listen to the most
peaceful music I can listen to.

I just sit in my car,
smoke a cigarette...

Just relax and get
myself in the character,

because I knew I had to
go down to a basement

or whatever the location was

and really turn on the switch.

Petty: Do you think
they're identifying

with the rapist or the victim?

Both.

If it's them and they
want to be the rapist...

How is the female reacting?

Are they feeling empowered
through that actor?

Do they feel like that actor?

Or they might want
to change a role

and feel like the woman
that's being raped,

and how is she really feeling?

So I think it's both
ways, the roles.

What do you think
is the appeal of that?

To take charge.

To make somebody do something.

Or you've had a
bad experience in life

and you want to
make women pay for it.

Or if the woman that you had
an experience with was an actor

or if the actor that's
being raped is a flirt,

you want to make her pay, maybe.

They're just angry
and they watch that,

maybe that would
take care of that

for them by just watching it...

Putting it to rest
and they can go on.

They might say like,
\"oh my god, I'm crazy.

I didn't think I was
crazy. This is horrible.

This is a real crime.\"
and then they get over it.

They could actually
get cured by this.

I don't think this is harmful.

I think it could be therapy.

Yeah, I do.

I do enjoy playing
the character,

because it definitely
is my release.

You know, I can scream

yell, punch and be
as vicious as I can.

I feel better after I'm done.

You're a monster and you're
actually the Alpha male...

Pretty much in
control of everything.

And then be able to step out...

It's a pretty intense feeling.

Petty: Eric turned out
to be the only filmmaker

who invited us into his home.

I had hoped it would mean
he would be more forthcoming.

- Petty: Are we ready?
- Patrick: Yeah.

- Are we rolling?
- Patrick: We're rolling.

Okay, go ahead.

Watch the wire.

This is where all
the magic happens...

- ( Petty chuckles )
- With my cat.

- Petty: What's your cat's name?
- Rost: Fancy.

I also have it rigged so if
you're sitting on the toilet

and you look in the mirror
that's over the bathroom,

you'll still see the \
"ghoulies\" poster.

You guys said you were
gonna be here a lot...

Earlier.

Oh, let me get rid of that.

So who's this one?

This is Beth.

That's me with the knife.

- Oh damn, look at that.
- Petty: Where was this?

Rost: This was out in Brooklyn.

Petty: Brooklyn
Brooklyn? Like in the city?

Yeah. Yeah.

Petty: Oh, she looks pretty.

Rost: Looks a
little like Benny hill.

-( Vocalizes ) On this clip...
-( Petty laughs )

- she's tied up over here...
- Uh-huh.

and... that f...

The girl gets away.

She's tied up, I'm
about to go kill her

and she gets away.
She starts running,

and eventually I have to
catch up with her, and kill her.

I didn't have time
to move the camera,

so it was where it was...

Where I was going to do
the killing... back over here.

( Chuckles ) See, I remembered
you said you were going to come by.

I was just looking
at some footage...

Really short footage that I had.

Petty: Oh, there I am.

( Chuckles ) You were...
this is where we met?

Rost: This is where we
met at the chiller convention.

You were shooting me?

Yep.

Look at that, camera guy.

Who's got the camera
on them now, camera guy?

( Laughs )

When someone discovers that
someone's been watching them,

that's a very traumatic
experience for them,

because they don't know that the person
is a voyeur and would never hurt them.

So the so-called
victims are thinking,

\"this person's stalking me,

or this person's trying to
figure out a way to rape me, \"

which sometimes may be the case.

Petty: So what
have you been up to?

Rost: I'm just shooting
some more movies.

This one's about a girl
that I follow... pretty typical.

But the murder in
this one is where I...

Sort of strangle-hang her,

I slowly pull the rope,

so I'm stretching her neck and
at the same time tightening it.

talk to her?

Sure. I'm sure you
could probably talk to her.

You know what? I'll
give her your information,

and if she feels comfortable,
she'll contact you.

- Petty: Okay.
- ( Footsteps )

One of the first things film tried
to do was to look at things dying.

Do you know that \"electrocuting
an elephant\" Edison short

- from 1903 or '04?
- Petty: Yeah. Yeah.

- It's an amazing...
- Dr. Clover: That's, to me...

( Laughs ) The ultimate
horror movie almost.

Right away we get reenactments

of actual executions
that were happening.

- Petty: In early...
- In early cinema, yeah,

right there at the
very beginning.

Cinema seems poised
to answer the question of

\"is dying a process, or is it
like an on- and-off switch?\"

what is it like to...

We can actually now
watch something die.

And one can think of cinema
as kind of circling around...

Cinema having an
appetite to see that

and kind of circling around it

with reenactments and fakes,

the claimed snuff movies,

and so forth... \
"faces of death\"

kinds of fakery, but
never getting there.

And I'm not sure
if we got there,

that it would be
interesting at all.

Rost: I think my story itself,

just doing these
murders and filming them,

would be an interesting
story for anybody to watch.

- Petty: Right.
- You know, s&man with the ampersand...

It just looks cool. It
looks a little jarring.

I've got a whole
bunch of people saying

I'm the \ "s&m
man, \" but I'm not.

If you look closer
and read it, it's not that.

- Petty: Right.
- I don't do that kind of crap.

( Panting )

Debbie: If you're taking a
knife out of someone's back,

you try to make it look real,

so you stop the camera
and put another knife there,

fake blood... theatrical blood.

But it's mostly on
the actor because,

special effects, you know,

there's only so much you can do.

I don't know if every woman had

the experience of maybe
almost being raped,

but being that it almost or
could've happened to me,

I go back to that
and relate to that.

You want the face to
turn purple and blue.

You want it to try
to get that effect,

so that it's super real.

But I know that I'm
going to get out of this.

See, there's a difference
when you don't know

if you're going to die or not.

You know, blood kind
of looks that way in video,

it looks a little disappointing.

( Petty speaks )

Violence.

It's really not a
whole lot about sex.

They want to see
the knives going in,

the strangling of the neck

or how tight is the
rope or the stocking.

\"I want to see the face. I
want to see the eyes bulging out.

I want to see blood coming
out. I want the gore\"...

Yeah, definitely the
Gore. It's blood flow.

It's like the light
feeling of the head.

It's something... so there's
something chemically in the brain

that makes that charge.

I do think even though
there is a clitoral erection...

I guess I'm saying that, right?
- -For a woman

as well as a man... So
there's a blood flow there...

It's not as much
the women I've met

as with the male.

The blood's pumping, and he's...

That gets him going.

I mean, masturbation's normal

or to get excited... whatever
triggers in your mind.

So with these
people, it's the violence

that starts that.

Not that it ends that
way, but it starts that,

so I think it's natural.

If it exists, it's natural.

I actually think
there's a lot of truth

in the masochism explanation

for going to the
movies. Actually, I do.

I think that there's something

just about sitting
passively in a room,

leaning back, having images come
at you and making you feel things.

- Petty: Mm-hmm.
- Jerking your tears... right?

Making you scream
or cover your eyes.

Petty: Does anybody
ever write in saying

they want to be in
the movie as a killer?

Uh, no. Victims.

Everybody wants to be a victim.

Everyone wants us to kill them.

Toe tag will come to
your house and kill you.

And kill you. They
know that we're the killers

and they don't want to
step over that boundary.

They want to come in

and die by our hands.

Once you follow a girl, you
can find out where she lives

and see her in her
natural habitat...

Where she works and stuff.

Well, I don't... Peep
inside their house,

you know, all the time.

- ( Petty chuckles )
- I do occasionally,

but it's 'cause there's
an open window,

where it's almost like
they're inviting me.

In general, studies have shown

that voyeurs have little
empathy, not a lot of empathy.

If they were thinking
about how the person feels,

then they rationalize
it to say, \"she wants it.

She likes it, \" which is
also not really empathy.

- Yeah.
- There's usually not a lot of guilt.

By and large if they
get away with it, no.

Watching a person
through a window

and watching a
person on a movie is...

I don't think there's
really much of a difference.

You get to have, like, a
god's eye view almost.

You're sort of hiding out there.

We were discussing the
other day about animals...

The killing of animals onscreen

and why that
strikes many viewers,

including me, as
much more horrifying.

What I would say is that the
animal stuff feels unmediated,

whereas the human
deaths are mediated.

It's clear they're mediated...

You can see that there's a cut,

or that there's a body
double or something.

- You become aware of it then.
- Petty: Right.

It's funny, 'cause I can
watch a human death,

but as soon as it comes
to animals, it's like,

\"oh god, I don't even
want to look at it.\"

it's not just realistic,

it's the possibility of reality

that goes behind the animal.

- Petty: Yeah.
- And in a sense,

we all will know that
movies are a fake.

- ( Rock music playing )
- ( Rost breathing heavily )

( Birds chirping )

- Petty: You put a knife in the crate?
- Rost: Yeah.

So we'd be tied up and helpless?

So you'd be tied up,
I'd come over here

and then I would be like,
\"aaagh, I'm gonna kill you.\"

- fall down.
- Yeah.

- Like on the ground.
- Yeah.

- So, um...
- Right.

- Now I'm dead.
- See? See?

- ( Growls ) I'm choking you.
- ( Chuckles )

You're dead and I walk back.

Can I get up? ( Laughs )

Then I'd come back
with the knife and like...

( Yells ) \"I'm gonna
kill the sound guy!\"

( growls ) I'd put you on there.

Then I'd be like, \"I'm gonna
stab you in the camera.\"

( chuckles )

You said you wanted
to see what it looked like.

Petty: Well, you just
didn't give me a warning.

Oh. Well, I don't give my
actresses a warning sometimes.

( Chuckles ) Right. But yeah...

How's your heartbeat?
Are you a little scared?

I'm a little pumped.
I'm not gonna kill j.T..

( Laughs )

For some people
it's a hostile act,

because the woman doesn't
know that she's being watched

and someone's getting sexual
gratification from watching her.

So if the woman would
turn around and say \ "hi, \"

the voyeur would
probably not be aroused.

- ( Petty laughing ) - Rost:
Oh, look, they're mooning us.

- Petty: Are they?
- Rost: What an asshole.

This is a BlackBerry
bush over here.

It starts off very tame,

but then by August

it's this huge afro of fruit

- this big.
- Petty: You come for the snuff films

- and you stay for the fruit.
- Yeah, you get the fruit.

Oh, so it's your mom
who lives upstairs?

- Yeah.
- Oh, okay.

Yeah, you caught
me. She's my landlord.

So you guys get along?

- Yeah, she's great.
- Cool.

She's not a horror fan.

Right. Yeah, my mom
doesn't like my movies.

Yeah. ( Chuckles )

She's not some corpse
in the bates motel

- or anything like that.
- Right.

You... I'm gonna
take your camera,

and I'm gonna film
you while I'm killing you.

Just so you know.

Petty: Shyness and
scheduling conspired

to keep me off set from
Debbie, Eric and Fred.

There was only one filmmaker we
only got permission to watch at work.

Have you been in
some of bill's movies?

Freddie dingo: Yeah.
All the nonsense.

I'll call bill... He's
across the street.

Zebub: Even with
girls who like me,

it takes about 10 minutes
to get them interested.

So I thought, \"I will
add realism to rape.\"

- j.t.
- I need to lubricate my victim,

so we have the
blood of the boyfriend

that's from his skinned
head available for lubrication.

Dingo: Bill was always
very quiet, always to himself.

He'd sit there and
observe everybody.

I think at the
beginning, pretty much

nobody really wanted
to be in bill's movies...

( zebub laughs ) It's true.

You know, so he puts his
heart into what he's doing.

And doing things...
Sometimes it's tough

to find the people
around you to do things,

so I had no problem
helping him out doing stuff.

Little did I know some of the
stuff I'd be get into with him.

But I guess I'm not running
for anything, so it doesn't matter.

( Heavy metal music playing )

- I'm sorry.
- ( Men laugh )

- What are you doing?
- Zebub: Ow!

What are you doing?

( Man speaks )

I'm kerri Taylor. I'm a model,

and I do b movies sometimes.

Zebub: I need you to
lie down on the ground...

- Uh-huh.
- And relax.

Like an airplane. You
are the kerri airplane.

- Do I need to get undressed?
- No.

But \"Jesus Christ,
serial rapist\"...

I thought, \"all right, I'll bang
a movie out in a month.\"

kerri, are you
comfortable? ( Laughs )

Sorry.

( Dingo speaks )

- Man #2: No.
- I do.

Petty: Can I have a bud?

Zebub: I'm sorry, I
just need to have this,

'cause I feel like I've aged
10 years doing the shot.

( Men laugh )

You can take
individuals who have

committed sexual crimes and
look at their particular history

and see that they
may have gone through

several different
paraphilias on the way

to a very aggressive
sexual crime.

But there's been very little
research as to which comes first,

or the exact relation
from one to the other.

I think there's an
escalation with everything...

With violence, with
every... you know.

I'm just trying to catch
my breath. It's so hard.

All right, we're
getting back to...

So you know kerri's
dead in this scene.

I've strangled her, but I still
want to cut a message into her.

\ "revenge\"?

Let's just make it happen.

All right, 9:30?

I will guzzle this, and
then I'll write something.

What do I write?

I don't want to write \ "lamb.\"

( kerri speaks )

- ( Zebub speaks )
- ( Kerri laughs ) Yeah.

- It almost looks like scar tissue, doesn't it?
- Man: Yeah.

Down. 'Cause when you go up,

you ruin my hard work.

Look at all this
hard work I'm doing.

( Chuckles ) Down. Down, boy.

You ruined my hard work.

Oh! You're taking too long.

Move your damn
beer out of the way.

( Laughs )

All I've ever seen
you drink is beer.

You don't drink
anything but beer.

It's a sports drink, kerri.

- Yeah.
- Are you all right?

( Kerri mumbles )

I'm just taking a break,

so I'm not going on my
usual tangent. ( Chuckles )

It hurts to be on my knees.

Petty: Bill, can we shoot
some of the Fred scene?

- Zebub: No.
- Petty: Because you don't want us to see you perform?

Zebub: No. Yes, that's correct.

We just want to see
some more active direction

- or some active filmmaking.
- Oh, really?

- Petty: Yeah.
- Zebub: You can't see me perform

because I can't
perform. I can't do it.

- Petty: You can't do it?
- Zebub: I can't do it.

-( Petty whispers ) All right.
- I hate it.

I don't like watching myself.

It's not that I think
I do a bad job.

It's just, you know,
you watching yourself,

it's always... It's
always difficult.

( Coughing )

( Laughing )

Crusty and the other two girls

pretty much had a talk

and that's the scene
they came up with.

Cris has this great thing

where she can just vomit
whenever she wants to.

I mean, it was
really a nasty scene,

being down there and
just smelling the puke.

After it was all said and done,

everybody had a good time.

The girls had a good time.

That night the police came.

There's two naked
girls covered in puke,

there's a naked
guy standing there,

and we're like \"we're just
art students making a film.\"

they're like \ "oh, okay.\"

( men chatting )

( Laughs ) I'm a little drunk.

( Men laugh )

Hmm.

Kerri, I have a
knife by your back.

( Laughing, mutters )

This knife is used to
cut limes at dingo's.

This.

She's dead, so she's not
going to bleed that much.

Dingo: \ "August underground,
\" eat your heart out.

( Men laugh )

All right, can we have some
candle-lighting teamwork?

He was... I think he was
fumbling on my body,

but didn't really
want to touch me.

I said \"go ahead.
Just make it look real.\"

I'm like \"oh, whatever,
it's just a body.

It's just a person.\"
we're just here to do that,

so I can just... I
can get right in.

Little cut.

Crusty using the knife,
cutting herself is actually real.

This is... you know,
for some reason

lots of girls like
to cut themselves.

I think filming this movie
definitely helped her

get those demons out.

I don't watch \ "mordum\"
anymore. We lived through it.

It was... it was exactly like
in the movie, pretty much.

It was rough,

so I don't like watching them.

( Zebub mutters )

- That was awesome.
- ( Man laughs )

Zebub: Good. Get up.

You're alive.

( Man laughs )

Petty: Eric began
to email me regularly.

I agreed to meet him
in the city for breakfast.

- ( People chatting )
- ( TV playing )

- Hi.
- Petty: Exactly.

- So how you been?
- I've been okay.

I kind of thought this was just going
to be a meeting with you and me.

More like a business
kind of meeting

to talk about stuff.

Like, the trouble
I'm having with...

You're not really giving straight
answers on what you're actually doing,

- in terms of stalking...
- Okay.

- or following the girls or whatever.
- Uh-huh uh-huh, okay.

I think I've answered pretty much
every question you've given me.

So I can't tell
if you're really...

If you're following girls
without telling them.

Um, I'm not. I'm not doing that.

- But then you say you do.
- But I do.

- ( Both laugh )
- Well, i... I haven't...

I don't really know
how to write scripts.

I mean, I just sort of...

- English muffins?
- That's me.

I don't know why they gave
me four English muffins.

- ( Marc speaks )
- Oh, okay.

Petty: Well but, it
doesn't look that real.

The toe tag guys have
more special effects.

Yeah, they have
vomit and stuff like that.

They have Gore. They have blood.

- There's not that much...
- Well, there's...

You'd be surprised
how much the body

is not like the movies.

- ( Petty laughs )
- ( Chuckles )

Because you've seen
real dead bodies?

- Sure.
- Where?

While I was killing
them in my movies.

\ "stabbed.\" Georgia?

Yeah, you tell me
if that's fake or not.

I mean... can I get the ketchup?

Thanks.

Whiles: I don't even
have scar wounds...

My whole fucking arm is a scar.

- So it doesn't even really...
- petty: I showed this scene to bill,

and we talked about whether
or not this was the kind of thing

people were buying the \
"August underground\" movies for.

A month later, bill
sends me this footage

from his latest movie.

Dr. Clover: I talked with a
lot of video store owners...

Guys who worked at
video stores at that time...

And they told me that there
are a lot of people who come in

and want to rent
films to repeat...

Now that they know
that a stuntman got killed

in the making of whatever,

they want to go rent
that film over and over.

That's sort of one of the...

Why I'm going after the
underground filmmakers.

And looking for snuff, yeah.

When I was writing
my book, I also went...

I heard about snuff movies
being shown in San Francisco

and businessmen paying $50 a pop

to go to some warehouse
somewhere late at night.

It turns out it
was a fake report,

that they had been misled.
There was no such thing.

So every time I
went looking for snuff,

reputed snuff, it evaporated.

It never was real.

And I wonder if you're
on the same chase now

and whether you've
found anything.

I have seen a real snuff film.

When I was probably
about 14 years old.

It wasn't a sexual snuff film.

Most snuff films, there's
usually more sex involved,

with rape and then the murder.

There's a guy with a
video camera in a bush,

and the guy's walking
his dog down the street.

A guy comes out from an alley

or somewhere behind,

he shoots the guy two times,

then shoots his dog
and then runs off.

And the thing
is, it looked fake.

You know, it really...
It really looked fake.

It was just really fast.

It wasn't anything...
Anything big.

Would I want to see
a snuff movie now?

Uh...

So why are we meeting up here?

You're still living
out in queens, right?

- Yeah.
- Well, I'm following a girl

that's gonna be a subject
for one of my next movies.

Does she know it yet?

No, not yet.

What's her name?

Uh, Cindy.

But you haven't met her yet?

Well, I named her Cindy.

I haven't gotten
her real name yet.

Do you think we
could come along?

- Hmm?
- Can we come along...

- No.
- With you?

I'd prefer... I'd
prefer you didn't.

I still think even if you're
a block and a half away,

it'll sort of blow my cover.

- Right.
- Yeah.

If you're really following these
girls without their knowledge,

and then coming forward
and telling them this...

Right.

They would have had to
call the cops or something.

No. It hasn't ha...
In all the movies

- that I've made, nobody's called the cops.
- Nobody's been upset?

That seems... that's
just unbelievable to me.

- It just seems crazy.
- ( Chuckles )

It's unbelievable that
you have a girlfriend.

( Both laugh )

( Petty speaks )

How did you get my
phone number, by the way?

The Internet.

- It's on there?
- Yeah.

It's not supposed to be listed.

- What? You heading off?
- Yeah, I've got...

I've got maybe five minutes.

- Yeah?
- Yeah.

- Are you sure we can't come with you?
- I'm sure.

I'm not going to pay
for the bill because...

I think it's fine. It'll be
part of the documentary.

- Okay. Okay.
- Next time you can get it.

All right, that's cool.
Then there is a next time.

- Yeah, sure. We'll keep hanging out.
- You got that on tape.

- Petty: Can you tell who he's following?
- Patrick: No.

Petty: He's crossing this
way. Go back, go back.

( Car alarm blaring )

Can you get a zoom
in on the camera?

Stay back. Stay back.

You should get over behind...

He saw us.

- Yeah, he spotted us.
- ( Patrick laughs )

Petty: Hey.

( Petty speaks softly )

( Speaks )

( Laughs )

Dr. Clover: You've got... put
your finger on something here

about a sense of horror

about everything is
under surveillance,

everything can be seen now.

There's no escape
from the camera.

This goes to photography
more generally now,

but what do you make of
the abu ghraib photographs?

We're looking at what
some guy took pictures of...

- petty: Right.
- Some guy or some woman. I actually don't know.

And that person was clearly...

Had some glee.

And we're implicated
in that glee.

And that's where the revulsion

or, for me, the horror of looking
at those pictures resides...

Is that I'm complicit.

But I guess the question is
where do you go after that?

Where does horror
go after abu ghraib?

( Petty speaks )

- Yes.
- What was your response to that?

\"toe tag can do it better\"...

First thing that
popped into my head.

Watching it didn't...

It wasn't scary. It
was just, like, in awe.

It's a numbing kind of feeling,

watching real... real death.

Rost: Hey, you live around here?

- Yeah, I live...
- ( Scuffling )

- ( Thuds )
- ( Woman grunts )

( Lock clicks )

Dr. Clover: In a world where we
assume images are manipulated,

nobody really challenged
the veracity of those images.

- ( Door shuts ) - There was all
this public expression of shock,

but is that in fact
how most Americans

or most citizens of the world
responded to those photographs?

Have such images
become so commonplace

that in fact our first
reaction to this is,

as you say, \ "oh,
'Friday the 13th.'\"

have we been
desensitized to the point

where when it really is real,

we can't see it anymore?

- ( Clatters )
- ( Whimpers )

Petty: Looks like
his tire's a little flat.

- ( Engine stops )
- ( Keys jingle )

Petty: Oh, there he is.

Hi, j.T.. Hi.

- ( Van doors shut )
- Hiya.

- Yeah.
- Look at that.

It's like the country.

Uh, it's pretty rough.

Yeah. See? I told you.

- Yeah. Episode 13... a lot...
- Mm-hmm.

It's bloodier.

Yeah. Pretty cool.

Yeah. Who was helping
you with that one?

No, it was all me.

- Yeah?
- Yeah.

Yeah, the tapes you wanted.

- Cool. Thank you.
- Right.

That's, umm...

Rost: Did you get
that email I sent you?

With the... with the pitch?

- Yeah.
- You remember that thing

- that we were talking about in the restaurant?
- The one you...

I filled it out a little more
with characters and stuff...

- I don't know if that... was that...
- Yeah. I'm in there.

interesting? Okay.
By the computer, right?

Yeah, we'll set up some lights.

You guys want anything
to drink or anything?

Dr. Clover: Going
back to your question...

Your own remark about
yourself as a horror film viewer,

that you're trying to get
back to the sensitivity you had

- as a 15-year-old with respect to the image.
- Petty: Right.

Did abu ghraib do
that for you at all?

Did those photos
do that for you at all?

Did they touch
back... Put you back

into that level of
sensitivity and shock?

Petty: Uh.

I can't... I can't just
make a documentary

that's a commercial
for your fake persona.

Rost: I just... I'm not
going... I can't give you...

I'm being totally
honest with you.

You're not. I keep asking
the same questions.

We've gone... I've
answered the que...

I've fucking answered the
fricking question about five times.

Every single time you
ask it, I answer the same...

I'm asking them because
you're not giving me real answers.

That I have a persona. Well, you
won't give me a straight answer

about the idea that I
emailed you about...

The movie for Holly...
The movie for Hollywood.

You told me... you keep
giving me the persona.

I'm not letting you... I'm not
going to let you meet anybody.

I don't...

then how do I even
put you in the movie then?

I'm not sure I even
have a use for...

You know what? I don't want
to be in the movie anymore.

I don't want to be in
this movie anymore.

I want... I want... this
sounds like the stupidest...

You signed... you signed...

Documentary I've
ever heard of in my life.

- Eric, you signed...
- because you want to go around,

purposely be malicious and
ruin somebody else's business.

You don't have my
permission to do that.

You signed it, Eric. I'm sorry.

- I signed something that was like...
- we'll get out of your hair.

Yeah, can you please
get out of my hair?

- Can you please get out of here?
- I'm sorry. We're going.

Can you ple... can you
please just get out of here?

No, this is very... I'm
sorry, Eric. I'm sorry.

- Can you please get out of here right now?
- We'll leave right now.

- Can you turn off the camera?
- Eric, just...

Stop! Don't touch me.
Don't you touch my shoulder.

I didn't touch you once.

- ( Chatting )
- ( Case clunking )

- Marc: Here he comes.
- Petty: Does he have something?

Patrick: I think he
has a gobo arm.

Petty: He can keep the gobo arm.

All I can do is just keep
the good memories in,

make audiences aware

that there are crazy
people out there

and you need to
always be prepared

and always watch out.

Because a killer can
look like this, you know?

A killer can look
like... Can look like you.

You know? You don't know.

You've just always gotta
be... expect the unexpected.

( Chuckling, blowing )

I forgot to make a wish.

People might say,
\"oh, they're off the wall.

What are these people
like? Doesn't it scare you

that they're
deranged like this?\"

I'm like, \"oh, well, I don't
want to judge anybody.\"

I'm here making the
films to give pleasure.

Until they want to really
hurt me or do something,

I don't think I'm thinking
any different about that.

You could say it's
sort of like alcoholism

or many other compulsive
disorders... there's no cure.

This is... somebody
could be in control of it,

could be very
much in control of it.

It's always conceivable
that it could... awaken.

Is this helpful?

There's that part of
every human being

that wants to look
at the car crash

and see if they see
blood coming from the car.

If somebody's going
to jump off of a building,

why is there a crowd of
people ready for him to jump?

You know, that's
the animal instinct.

It's something that I don't
think can be explained.

Petty: By this point,

I thought Eric wanted
nothing more to do with me.

- And to be honest, it was a relief.
- And it'll just land steady.

Petty: Then a few
weeks later, I find this.

Dr. Clover: You're
still just sitting there

as a passive observer. So
I suspect in the same way

that a porn film is never itself

fully satisfying,

I have a feeling real murder

would never itself
be that satisfying.

You'd have to commit it
yourself... that's the endpoint...

- Petty: Yeah.
- Not just watch it.

Petty: There's a difference
between porn and horror though.

The actors in porn
are really having sex.

It's a fictional frame,
but the act itself is real.

Petty: I like to watch people.

And on movie screens,
I like to watch them die.

For this movie, I wanted
to talk to somebody

who had not just approached
a line in filmmaking,

but crossed it.

I started by trying to
contact a video voyeur,

the peeping Tom
from my childhood.

When he refused me,

I went looking in
underground horror

for filmmakers who
had crossed that line.

And when I didn't find it there,

I had to take
another step myself.

Dr. Clover: I'm not
sure that the audience

for a real snuff film

is actually the audience
for a horror movie.

I wonder what the
overlap of those things is

- because...
- Petty: Yeah.

A friend of mine's diabetic.

( Papers rustling )

( Scuffling )

( Rost breathing heavily )

Petty: The audience that
knows it's watching a snuff movie

doesn't question its reality.

But when you
watch a horror movie,

you want it to be real,
because you know it's a fake.

- Rost: Hi, j.T..
- Petty: So tell us your name.

My name is Eric.

I'm the maker of the
\ "s&man\" series.

Petty: I imagine that the
overlap between snuff and horror

would be a mixture of the two...

Fiction inside the
framework of reality,

or the other way around.

Rost: No, I'm gonna keep going.

You know, with every movie
I'm learning more and more

about filmmaking and stuff so...

( Camera whirring )

( Rost chuckles )

( Muffled screaming )

( Eerie music playing )

( Tinkling )