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I think making art
is as natural as breathing.

I think children make art.

My son wouldn't put his blocks
where they were supposed to go.

He'd make other things
out of them.

You know,
that was the art instinct.

When did I start?

I started, as many artists do,

with a fascination with skills.

Learning to draw,

learning to paint,

you know,
learning the techniques.

And...

I bought into that big time
when I started,

and it really ran out for me.

And I came up
to the question of,

"Okay, I've got these means,

"but what ends are there?

"To what purpose
do I put these skills?"

[LIGHTER CLICKS]

Okay, are you an artist?

[STERNLY] Enter yes or no.

[LAUGHS]

[DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING]

I make art

because I really can't imagine
not making art.

It's been my friend.

It's been my ally. It's been...

[EXHALES] ...my mirror.

It makes me happy
and it's a struggle

and it's hard and it's fun.

DAVE: Art is my oldest friend,
[CHUCKLES] you know.

When I was a kid,
I didn't have many friends.

Uh, I was very awkward
and scared of everything.

Um, and...

Art was always a refuge.

I went through a short period
very early on in my childhood

where I got very sick
over a summer

for about six months

and my parents, desperate
to sort of find ways to...

To keep me entertained,
they gave me three things,

which was, uh, pens and pencils

and paper and stuff
so I could draw.

They gave me plasticine

so I could make things,
model things.

And they gave me
comic books to read.

And it was that combination

that pretty much then influenced
everything that I did

for the rest of my life
after that.

STEPHANIE:I've always been creating
since I was little.

My parents have always,
like, cultivated that in me,

which I really appreciate.

They weren't necessarily

monetarily able
to get me certain things.

But I worked with what I had,
and I was creative about it.

The best way that
I can express who I am

is through the art I make.

In the end, um,

the struggles
that I have with it

become meaningless

when I can make something
amazing and beautiful.

I've been drawing
since I was four years old.

When I was a little child,
I would be so frustrated

that my hands didn't work
the way that I wanted them to,

that I would scream on the floor
until I nearly passed out.

I drew because I had to.

I drew because
it was like picking scabs

or like, I don't know,
doing drugs or something.

I also drew
because it was the only way

that I could talk to people
when I was growing up.

I drew pictures
of the popular girls

so that they wouldn't
beat me up.

It was kind of my bribe
to them.

I... I draw
because it's what I am.

It's in my fucking DNA,

and if I was paralyzed, I would
wear one of those headsets

and draw it with my eye
movements and light.

I mean, I... I just, I draw.

I can't do anything else.

When I was younger,

I had a very

limited and strict idea

of what an artist was.

An artist was kind of
a cartoon-looking person

wearing a beret
and a striped shirt,

uh, with a paint brush
in front of an easel,

uh, you know, chain smoking,
probably wearing a scarf,

and you know,
that was an artist,

and I didn't see very much
in my day-to-day life

as a suburban kid
in Lexington, Massachusetts,

to teach me what an artist was.

And... And I also really
wasn't, you know...

I don't think
I was schooled very well

in the vastness
of what creativity could be,

especially because
when I look back

and I think of how
we were taught in school.

We're living through this age

where we have
devalued, uh, creativity

we've devalued imagination.

"Don't put food on the table,"
does it?

Well, it does.

For me, art is the most art
in its broadest sense.

It's simply the most
important thing there is.

Because without it,
nothing else matters.

Let's imagine a world
where there is no culture.

Let's imagine where everyone
who is employable is a chemist.

So we have no architecture,
no design,

no fine arts, no theater,
no literature,

no television, no film.

Nothing to mediate
our human experience.

Would that be
a life worth living?

DAVE: Why do we mate?

Why do we need to progress?

Why do we need
to pass our genes on to our...

Through to our children?

There is something in us,
some life force in us

that keeps us moving forward,
and I think that's tied in

with this desire to create
things, to make things.

We are, as artists,

in the magician category
of archetypes,

so we are allowed
to embrace magic.

Uh, you could say
it's egotistical,

but you could say
we create magic.

The act of creation,

it seems like almost
the most sacred thing,

pure thing that
man can be involved in.

Even if it's something

as trivial as making
a comic book or a painting,

you're adding to the beauty
of the world, really.

I think it's the artist's duty

to make the world a better,

more beautiful, more
interesting, more fun place

through these visuals,
through these ideas.

Art humanizes.

That's... That's what's
beautiful about it.

It's a human thing.

You know,
it's not a mechanical thing

or a scientific thing,

or a corporate thing,
or a power thing.

It's a human thing.

Some people don't know
how to take that first step

towards art
or towards something else,

something bigger
than themselves,

something creative.

You know, a lot of people
feel you need talent.

That's horseshit.

You just have to
have a willingness to express yourself,

and everybody has that.

NEIL: It never occurred to me

that I could really
actually be a writer.

You could grow up
to be a writer.

It seemed much more likely
that, you know,

you would grow up
to get a real job.

Like the people that you met,

you know,
I'd be an English teacher

or an astronaut
or prime minister

or something...
You know, I'd have to settle.

I didn't even know what a movie
was, hardly, growing up.

I was just going to be
in a rock-and-roll band,

came to LA to be in one.

The next thing you know,

I got in some weird
acting class, you know?

And somebody said,
"Hey, you can really do this.

"You should do it."

Then all of a sudden,
you're on Divorce Court

and then you get, you know

and then you're on Matlock.

And then you make
another 600 bucks

for being on Knots Landingfor saying six lines.

And I'm like, "Well,
I guess I'd better do this

"because otherwise
I'm going to starve to death."

Writing and being
a writer was...

Was a daydream.

You know, I would come up
with these glorious

wonderful daydreams

in which I would
kidnap all the writers I liked

through time and space

and put them together
in a giant castle

and force them
to collaborate on a novel

a sort of 12-volume novel
that I had plotted.

It would be published
under my name.

And, uh, they would
have their memories wiped.

As an 11-year-old,

I was vicious.

You know,
I was perfectly prepared

to wipe all their memories,

um, as I return them
to their own time,

leaving behind my novel

that they would have done
all the work on.

Obviously, passion is
fundamentally important, right?

But first of all,
people mystify passion a lot.

Our examples of passion

are always
after the fact, right.

We see the passionate artist

who can't stop painting,
works for five days straight.

We see the passionate filmmaker

who's just spent nine months
in the studio

editing his stuff
and working 24 hours a day.

They're already there.

They already know what
they're passionate about,

so we're seeing
what the end result is,

we don't realize
that what passion really is

is the intersection of three
or four or five things

that you're creative about.

The thing that
you are hardwired to do

is the thing that you did
at the age of nine,

that you loved to do
before puberty set in.

Because puberty
erases everything

and changes all the priorities
to one priority.

But if you can
rediscover that thing

that you loved to do
at nine years old,

then you can be happy
for the rest of your life.

If you're not sure
what you should be doing as an adult, um,

think back to
what you really enjoy doing,

um, when your age is
maybe, you know, 9 to 12

because you're mature enough
to know what you like to do,

um, but it's right before
your teenage years

when you start to feel
the expectations of the adult world

and what they start
to project onto you

and you start to hear
that idea of security.

Um... If... If you say,

"Well, I want to be a painter,
or a writer, or an artist,

"or I want to make comic books,"
or something like this,

they say, "Well, is there
any security in that?"

And, uh,

the true answer to that
is not necessarily,

uh, is there security in that.

But that's true of everything.

The first book of mine
that was actually published

was my Duran Duran biography.

And it came out at the height
of Duran Duran mania.

It sold out

within the first
couple of weeks.

And it's about to
go back to press.

And before it does,

Proteus Publications goes off
into involuntary bankruptcy

sued by their
American distributor,

and that's that.

For the rest of my career
up to now,

if there is a choice
between this is huge money,

this is big, this is important,

there is money here,
and this seems like fun,

this seems like cool,

this is something
that I've never done before,

I'll probably go off

after the thing
I've never done before.

Because if a thing you do
for the money dies,

you don't have anything.
Not even the money.

And if something that you did

because you wanted
to do it dies,

you still have this thing
and you've learned something

and it's made your life better.

What is all this about?

What are you actually making

with your skills
to exchange for money over here?

What... What are you
actually interested in?

Uh, what is this

worldview that
you want to develop

and express
in these different ways?

JAW: I started drawing
when I was like six years old.

Most my memories
are of being in, like, uh,

wildlife reserves
and seeing animals

and oftentimes were there
when the public wasn't allowed.

So there'd be like
dicey situations

where a car would
get stuck in the mud

and we'd have to walk five miles

and, like, my grandma
got hypothermia and...

Um, then we realized
we were being tracked by lions.

We just made it
to the Rangers station.

But I think growing up
with ecologist parents

and traveling and then having
most of the travels involved

being out in nature
and seeing animals from a young age,

that was, like,
all I cared about.

I think the main thing for me

is not to have any boundaries

because I don't think
they're there.

I think they're just...
Those are constructs.

It's all the same stuff.

It's all finding something
that is, um...

Really moves you
or makes you laugh

or is fascinating
or you just...

It's just a question
you want answered,

and then try to find
the best tone of voice

to answer that question
and that...

That may be...

It may demand to be a drawing
of some kind or a story.

It may demand some sounds,
so maybe some music.

It may, uh, demand long term...

Really dealing with the subject
over a number of years,

or it may be just a short story
I could do in a day.

Um, but it's just finding
the right little toolbox to deal with that.

The right tone of voice.

[TATTOO MACHINE WHIRRING]

The fact that both mediums
that I work in,

on skin and on canvas,

involve blood, uh,
occurred incidentally.

I started working
with blood first.

As a medium, I was trying
to connect with my work

on the deepest level possible.

I was happy with the content
of the imagery.

I was just not connecting
with the actual substance

that I was rendering
these images with.

And uh, you know,
the work was just

so necessary for meto create at the time,

and it was coming from
such a visceral place. Um...

It followed logically that, um,

something that was
intrinsically a part of me

would find its way, you know,
into these images.

I truly believe that

you have to do things,

at least initially,

that are exactly what you know,
you know. You...

If you want to
write a screenplay,

write a screenplay about
something you know.

Then, if you want to go invent

some science fiction thing
or whatever, do it.

But see that you know
how to tell a story first.

and you only know
how to tell stories

about what you've observed
or been involved in.

I think everybody
has a good story in them.

I think everybody can write,

and I think writing is the most
important thing of all of it.

So, if you're never
going to be a writer,

if you... If you don't have
any desire to be a writer,

if you just want to be
a painter, write anyway.

Writing will help your painting.

Writing will help
your photography.

Writing will help you
as a musician,

as a... As an actor,
as a banjo player,

whatever it is, if you write,
you discover who you are

and what you have to say.

DAVE: We all look for our way
of expressing ourselves,

of finding our voice.

And so much of it
comes from you as a person.

It's not something
that you're...

Uh, that you've sort of
spent time studying

in order to understand.

You just create and you improve,

but you're not
necessarily pinpointing

where those improvements

and those changes
have come from.

Have to create,
whether it's, um,

a painting or a comic,
or a Web series,

or sewing things

or gathering people
to storytell

Dungeons & Dragons,

you know whether...
Whatever it is, it's...

That's all part of creating,

and I couldn't exist without it.

Sounds really cliche
when I say it out loud,

but it is. It's me.
I'm... I have to create.

But I think
most people who create

are trying to find new ways
to get the same thrill.

You know, you're just
trying to press the tooth

that's gone numb in some way
that makes the...

Makes it jangle again.

When you're working
to press the scab

and feel the wind.

What is fun and what is great

and what feels
like you're having

a meaningful experience

is when something is emerging

that really moves you.

If it moves you,
there are chances

that you can
make it move others.

And that is what
it's pretty much all about.

It's an even playing field
with the arts,

'cause everyone has
their own fucking story.

Your story
is your currency, right?

Like, that's all
you've got in this life,

is your currency,
which is your voice

and the prism through
which you view life

and the very specific take
that you have on everything

which formulates
your point of view

if you choose to go into
something creative and whatnot.

Nobody else can do that.

People can ape it
and they can emulate it

and they can do
like a bastardization.

Nobody can give me
your story except you.

For me, everything

as a young writer
was focused on the idea

of learning my craft.

Yes, I had enormous chutzpah.

But at the same time,

I also knew that
I didn't know my craft.

Um, and I wanted to learn, so...

And I knew that the way

that I was going to learn
was writing.

And I just figured
every article I wrote,

every review I wrote,

every interview I did,
every short story I wrote,

I was going to get better.

There's this concept of romance

that's associated
with art and...

And the hand
nailed to the forehead

and standing on
a windswept moor with like...

It's gray and it's beautiful

and you can feel misunderstood,
and it's like... People don't...

They... They don't know
how much I suffer, you know,

there's all that kind of stuff.

And to me,
at the end of the day,

there's another aspect,
which is it's...

It's a fucking job,
you know. It's like

you've got to do it when...
When you...

When you don't
feel like doing it.

So it's, um...

You're in it for the long haul.

One of the best moments
of all creativity

is when you actually sit down

and start to create
something new,

and it's just pulling out
of your head

and there's no filters

and there's no one telling you
it's right or wrong.

You're just putting down
all the ideas.

And that can be quite euphoric.

There's a part
kind of in the middle

where you try to
assemble your ideas,

which can become a real slog,
and you suddenly realize

that your ambition
is not the equal

of your talent or vice versa,

your talent's not equal
to your ambition,

and it gets harder
and you have to apply

more and more craft to it

rather than just the pure
kind of energy of inspiration.

But, you know, that's just it.

That's just the tough part
of making art,

and I think
that's the horrible part.

That's the part
people don't like,

is the part between
inspiration and completion

where you're really
having to work.

COOP:I need to be in the studio,
like, all day long.

But there are days
when I don't really do anything,

like I don't complete anything.

I don't make something.

I will write,

"Nothing's coming.

"Fuck this.

"Nothing's coming.

"Get here. I'm waiting
for you," you know?

And then I'll smudge that
and I'll look into that

and see
if there's anything going.

And if it's not, I'll say,
"Nothing's coming.

"Goddamn it!

"I need a little information.

"A little message. Come on!"

I have a really regimented way
that I work, um,

because I don't believe in
that divine quick inspiration.

Uh, inspiration
comes from the doing.

You could plan whatever
you want to do that day,

but as soon as you put
that that brush to canvas,

everything's going to change.

And that's not going to happen

if you sit around
thinking about it all day

and meditating on it
and figuring things out.

It comes in the work.

It comes
in the actual physicality

of what your own actions
are going to bring.

And bring to the evolution

of whatever it is
that you're working on.

I mean, inspiration
is for amateurs.

Somebody said that?
I didn't say that.

I don't remember who.

I just feel like this is my job

and part of my job
is, um, you know,

I've got to make things.

And I make paintings.

Sometimes somebody hires me
to make an illustration

for, you know,
an album cover or whatever.

So then there's sort of
more parameters

and limits on what I do.

But I just do it.

You know, that's the job.
That's what you do.

I have to wake up and have
my morning bulletproof coffee

and walk my dog and pet my cats
and answer emails or whatever.

And then at 10:00 exactly,

like, no matter what I'm doing,
I have to stop,

and I have to put myself
in front of my desk.

And my body wants to work
so much, so bad that

it just happens and I can't...
Don't talk to me.

I am not going to go out
to lunch or dinner.

I just need to focus.

And then I do that
and it's every day.

I feel like every
waking moment is work

because I'm my own machine,
like, I have to do

all my social media
and I have to contact everybody.

And if anybody contacts me,
I have to email them back,

whether if it's with my artwork,

I'm getting into an art blog,

or working with a client
with my jewelry business

or wholesale account,
like, it's...

It's all me, like, I'm always
having to generate more work

because of how social media
and the Internet works now.

Everything's just, like,
so fast -paced

that you have to
keep generating work

for people to notice you.

JIM: I travel to conventions,

and I have my own table set up,
and I am my own brand,

and I'm the only one
who represents the brand.

So I have to be
the number one fan

and cheerleader of the brand.

Or else no one else
is going to give a shit.

I mean, people can dig my art,

but unless you are sort of
your number one fan, in a way,

no one else is really
going to champion you

as much as
you're going to champion you.

because it comes
from your heart and soul.

So when I go to a convention,
I have to be on point

and be polite
and communicate with people

and let them know, like,
"This is what I do.

"This is what I represent.
You should be part of this.

"Like, you should be
checking out my shit.

"Here's a free sticker.
Check this out." You know.

I think, for anybody,

whether any sort of
creative person,

you know, artists, musicians,

photographer,
dance or whatever,

there's a certain amount of time
you have to put in

just to get to the point of

beginning to, like,
know what you're doing.

MOLLY: For years and years
in my early career,

it was nothing but people
slamming the door in my face.

And the truth is,
I sucked in my early career.

I wasn't brilliant.

I was not one of these people

who's sheer genius
from the gate at all

In fact, I wouldn't say
that I got tolerably decent

until about
six or seven years ago.

I think instead of talent,

I had this natural
do-or-die stubbornness

where I just didn't care. I...

I was like,
"I'm going to be an artist even if you think I suck.

"Even if I do suck,
it doesn't matter.

"I'm just going to
fucking do this.

"I'm going to bash through this

"until eventually
these walls come down."

And that's eventually
what happens.

One day you wake up
and you're like,

"Ha, all that bullshit
that I've been dealing with for so long, it's gone.

"Wow, and I didn't even notice
it faded away."

BARRON: I wouldn't...

Wouldn't have had a career
if I hadn't gone to New York.

When I wanted to go to New York,

my friends who were
in the best studio in Dallas,

said, "You don't...
You don't wanna go there.

"You got a good gig
here in Dallas.

"You've got
the best clients around.

"You know, New York is way out
of your league, Barron.

"You're not good enough.

"You're great for this place."

What bullshit!

What bullshit!

"Forget who's the best.

"We've got a lot of work
we need to get done.

"We need people
to do this work.

"Will you do this work, Barron?"
"Yes. I'll do this work." You know?

"Okay. That was
a pretty good job.

"I've got another one over here.
You wanna try that?"

"Yeah. I'll try that."

The whole career for me

was finding work,

not because I was the best,

but because
I was willing to do it.

Unlike sportsman,
you can play arts differently.

In sports,
it's all skill over will.

But in arts, you can get away
with will over skill,

you know what I'm saying?
Skill fucking rules

and we all worship
great artists,

but you don't have to have
natural talent.

Sometimes you can
will yourself there, man,

whether you're writing
or painting

or crafting a universe
or something like that,

and it doesn't have to be
the best universe.

I've subsisted in this business
for now 21 years

never making anything excellent.

Some shit really good.

Some shit fucking hits home.

Some shits like that.

Doesn't matter, man.

You just keep
fucking expressing.

You don't have to
express perfection.

I'm happy,

prouder to be a will over skill
player in this business.

You know
what I'm saying? Skill.

Of course.
Skill fucking gets elevated.

But to not have skill
and get in somehow and stay in,

like anybody says
I'm not good at my job,

I'm like, "And yet I'm here.
Isn't that fucked up?"

NEIL: If people think that
they have what it takes,

I tell them to do it.

I point out
that even if they fail,

they will have learned something

and that
it's not that bad to fail.

Um, but I also tell them
that they have to do the work.

You've got to show up.

You know, people who wanna
be writers come up to me

and they say,
"I want to be a writer.

"What should I do?"

And I say, "You should write."

The man who taught me writing,

really seriously
taught me writing,

uh, is a man named
Tom Spanbauer,

and he talks about
that kind of scaffolding

as "shitting out
the lump of coal."

That's what Tom says.

You've gotta shit out
the lump of coal

before you can
really start to refine it,

before you really even know
what you're dealing with.

You have, like 500 to 1,000
horrible works in you

that you have to
get out of your system

before you even
get to the level

that you start to recognize
your own voice.

You want to do the best you can,

but realize that all the work
you're going to be doing

for the next few years,
a few years after that,

you won't even want
anyone to ever see again.

So, get busy on doing
that horrible work right now.

I think if you have
the opportunity

to do something that you love,

then don't do it and look
at what other people are doing.

Don't try and be Frank Miller,

or don't try and be
whoever it is

your favorite artist
or favorite writer is.

Be honest.

None of us want to see some kid
wasting their talent

trying to be like some other

favorite comic book artist
or whatever.

All of us want to see

a new voice
doing their own thing,

and I would rather see somebody
who wasn't that good

but they were being honest

rather than somebody
that was like

aping someday else's style

or just, you know,
being a tribute act.

It's really important to do

a certain amount
of your own work

without anybody
telling you what to do

because more important
than what I want from you

or what an editor
wants from you

or what someone buying it
wants from you,

you have to ask yourself
what do you want from it?

And you only find that out,
not before doing it

but after doing it.

You only find that out by
doing a large amount of work

and then you start to after...

After 100 pieces of work,
you start to go.

"I'm starting to get a sense

"of what direction
I think I should go.

And you need to ask yourself
that question first

before you start asking
external sources

what they want from you

because that will color
and poison and taint

what you're really trying to do

before you figure out
what it is,

it's better to make
your own mistakes

than to make mistakes

that are offered to you
by others.

Don't imitate others.

Use them as inspiration,

but if you imitate others,

you'll only ever be half
as good as somebody else

and you'll never be yourself.

People that set out
to be famous with their work,

what they tend to do
is look around them to see,

"Well, what kind of work
should I do to become famous?"

That's the killer, instantly,

when you start to say,

"What should I be doing
in order to achieve fame?"

You're doomed

because you're no longer
doing your own...

The inspiration
is being blocked,

and suddenly what you're doing

is trying to fit into
other people's interests,

and fit into the marketplace

and fit into fashion

and fashion changes every day,

so you might spend
two years on a work

and suddenly
everyone's moved on.

If you're trying to
fit into fashion,

you know, you can see that
in a lot of young bands

who come up trying to sound
like a successful band,

and by the time they make it,

the successful bands'
no longer successful

and they don't sound
like a successful band.

And that's because
they set out to be famous

rather than set out
to express themselves.

DINORA:One of the things I learned
in doing stand-up comedy

was compare and despair.

Everybody has got
their own voice.

If you look at someone else,
who's doing stand-up

and you compare
your jokes to their jokes,

you've already failed.

And I... And I had never heard
compare and despair before,

and it just...
It affected everything.

Everything for me.

Comparing, you know,

do I have, uh...
Am I still paying off my car?

Is my friend
not paying off their car?

Do I, um... Do I get to travel
as much as I'd like?

My friend travels all the time,
you know, like,

comparing just
on a lot of levels.

Am I booking as much
as the next person?

It could constantly go on.

I would always just kind of
need someone's approval

or need someone's opinion

to be positive
of what I was doing.

There was a lot of
doing stuff to...

"Oh, is this good enough?

"Is this right?
Does this make you happy?

"Do you love me?" [CHUCKLES]

And I just learned
to find that in myself.

I kind of learned
to trust myself

because more often than not,

the artists I know
have the same,

like, uh, insecurities
and stuff.

So, instead of
trying to please them

or get approval from some,

like, unseen force,

I just started
trying to please myself.

BILLY: I think
most artists really, uh,

wanna be able to say everything
that they've got to say

in whatever way it is,

and these days, I think,
artists are doing it

more and more
for themselves anyway.

Because you get your ass
handed to you so much

that after a while, it's like,
"Well, you know what?

"This is what I like
and it's what I'm able to do.

"This is what I had to say.

"So I may as well do it
for myself

"and for the people
who want it."

I'm ready to make tea
whenever she wants,

and that is frequent.

PETRA: Thank God
you finally learned

how to make
a good cup of tea.

It took me, eh, not that long.

- It took you a year.
- Maybe a year.

A year to move
beyond tea bags.

- [BARRON CLEARS THROAT]
- A year.

All of us,

every artist came from a place
of making pretty shitty art

when we started out
whenever it was

and carving ourselves out
and figuring out how to do it

and finding the path
and learning the things

and creating
whatever we created to become who we were.

Why wouldn't we

turn around
and leave the door open?

BOB: There isn't one writer
or artist out there

that doesn't want
more people in the pool.

They love it. They love seeing
and discovering a new writer

or a new artist, even though
that writer or artist

might take money
and food off their table,

they don't care.
They're like, "Come on,

"let's all get in
and have a great time."

I think approaching
other artists that way

and approaching life that way

is... Is the only way
to keep the cycle going.

You can't be an artist
and not be a patron of the arts.

You got to be a Medici
for somebody else, man,

help somebody else

fucking practice
their art and shit.

Because look,
there's no downside,

you know, it's just like,
"What do you get

"from discouraging an artist?"

Nothing.
Absolutely fucking nothing.

Discourage an artist,

you never get anything
from that artist ever.

Nothing good ever comes
from that shit.

You encourage an artist,

countless fucking good things
could happen, man.

They can pass it on
to somebody else

or they could create that song
that saved your fucking life,

or that blog that fucking
makes you understand something

for the first time,
or that fucking movie

that you
and your loved one...

Like, that's
your go-to fucking movie

in time of trial or joy
and shit like that.

Anytime I move along,
I feel like I've learned so much

just in doing it myself,

and I feel
a sense of responsibility

Almost... Almost to myself
to help other people

see through some of the...

Some of the woods because
there... It's not clear.

And when you're sitting...

You know, if you're...
If this is the path

and you know, I've made it
a little bit further along

and someone else is here,
I'm like, "Oh, wait a minute.

"Let me just tell you
what it looks like."

I get it. I get how hard it is

to be sitting there and going,

"What the hell do I do
with this stuff?

"Is my stuff good enough?

"Does it go here?

"Do I sell it to this person?

"How do you make this work?"

And... And having made some...

Some progress on my own

and some good, you know,
some good steps forward.

I feel like there's just...
It's just...

Yeah, it's a deep
sense of responsibility,

and maybe it's just the anxiety,
but that's...

That's what I feel.

I was fortunate enough

to have teachers
that changed my life.

And I have been told
by ex-students of mine

that I changed their life.

Well, that's pretty
fucking important.

Being a life changer.

Mentors and teachers

even more importantly than
teaching you something specific

kind of give you

a license to create,
like, maybe on your own.

Someone isn't as motivated
to just create something

but if you have
a mentor or a teacher,

who kind of validates
your effort to create something,

they're giving you, um...

They're almost giving you

a license to be able to do that.

I... I made that very material

and had one character
make an actual artistic license

that I would then put
in the back of every book

and then people go to
the trouble of cutting it out

in the back of the book
and putting their name on it.

It's... It's as if they're kind
of going through this, uh...

This little effort of, um,
just the cutting it out

and putting the imagery there
kind of gets them in the zone

to start
to accept the fact that,

"Okay, I can do this."

Permission

to go do specifically what
it was that I thought I wanted,

which was to be a...

You know, a kind of
an alternative rock star.

I mean, those were the people
that I looked at.

And I wanted their job.

I wanted to be Nick Cave.

I wanted to be those people.

I was like, "I don't know
how you get that job,

"but that's what I want to do."

And I didn't have
anyone in my life

who could give me
any guidance in that direction.

So, getting permission

from someone within that world

meant everything.

And so when I played
my demo tape,

I was really, really lucky

and a series of coincidences

led me to be in the same room
with a, you know,

an indie rock star hero
of mine,

Edward Ka-Spel.

And I was probably about
19 years old.

I played him my demo tape,

and he said,
"You're really good."

And this was coming from
someone who had the job.

And I never got to talk
to anyone who had the job.

And the flip side of that

is just as important
and just as dangerous.

Um, because I look back
at that experience

and I'm like, "Wow, what if
Edward Ka-Spel had said,

"'Don't...
Don't quit your day job.'

"Or rather, 'Go get a day job.'

I wonder what that
would have done to me.

I always remember that

and I remember it
when I answer,

you know, fans' questions
on the Internet,

I remember it
when I meet them in person,

I remember it
when I am interviewing,

I remember it

when I am talking
to anyone about art.

There is no fucking reason
in the universe

to ever tell someone that
they can't do something.

It helps nobody.

Even if you don't think
their art is very good.

They can and will blossom
if they keep working.

So many teachers

and so many adults and parents

and entities are so bad at that.

And they're so
passive-aggressively crushing

of hope and aspiration.

But the teacher who says,

"Yeah, you could do that
if you wanted.

"You really could."
opens up worlds,

and I think that's so
important for adults

to remember
when they are talking

to their young.

DINORA: When we're little,
we play naturally.

We do it without thinking.

And then somewhere
along the way,

someone tells us to stop it
or to grow up

or to act your age
or whatever that thing is,

that we end up hearing

and we let go of play

and we start to not listen
to our imagination.

We let go of that
fun part of our lives.

In terms of my work,
It's really important.

As a kid, half of what I did
was just like

take my forearm
and just put it into the piano,

just hear all the notes ringing

and just sit there
and space out.

Boom.

That's why
it's in all my songs now.

I always put that in songs.

There's like always places
where I'm just like

playing all the notes
with my forearm at once

and that's fun to me.

That's like...
That's like that's play.

That's like if someone, like,

lets you go
into a department store

with a baseball bat by yourself
and just take out aisle 17.

It's fun. You should be
able to play like that.

I have to play.

If I don't play... I mean,
I have to eat right,

I work out.

but I have to play,
and I have to keep my brain

malleable.

I mean, I wear a onesie
a lot of the time. I do.

I actually paint in a onesie
with ears most of the time.

I have to keep my brain agile
and fun and childlike,

otherwise, I feel like my soul
is being sucked out of my face.

I definitely think
allowing yourself

that moment to fuck up and...
[CHUCKLES] And...

And have it be chaos
for a while is...

Is very important.

Because if you don't
get to play

and see what works
and see what doesn't

and fail and rip things up

and, you know,
veto things that...

Yeah, you know,
how are you gonna really

know what does work
and what really feels right

And when it clicks
and you just like...

You're like,
"Yeah, that's amazing."

I think my determination
to live as an artist

has probably been what kept
that play alive in my life.

BARRON: It's not difficult
to create art.

It's just difficult to get
in the frame of mind to create art.

You have to go to that zone.

When you're in that zone,
you fry.

Probably every day.

I get... I get a stretch, like,

it could be half an hour,

could be like five hours
on a good day.

But I get a stretch where

I'm just in the flow
and it's just me and the drawing

and that's...

You know, if more people
could get that, I think,

you know,
because so many people I know,

they do a job
and it's just a job

and they do it to get money

so that they can do
something they like

with the rest of the time
they've got

when they're not sleeping.
And um...

And as I say,
obviously it is work.

And I do have to draw
when I'm not in the mood,

but when a...

When I'm in that zone,
you know, it's...

It's really...
It's pretty special.

Flow is technically defined

as an optimal
state of consciousness.

It's a state of consciousness
where we feel our best

and we perform our best.

And kind of more specifically
in less formal terms,

it's those moments
of rapt attention and total absorption, right,

where you get
so into the task at hand,

so focused on what you're doing

that everything else
just disappears,

and throughout,
all aspects of performance,

mental and physical,
go through the roof.

There comes like a point
when you're doing art

where you have...

Just, like,
everything in the universe

kinda clicks together

and you're just, like,
kind of cruising along.

You're like,
"Wow, everything works."

And I think that's kind of
where that spirituality,

that reverence lies.

Um, you know,
and also you don't...

I don't know, I...
I don't really realize it

but when other people
look at my stuff,

they're like, "Wow, you just
made that out of nothing."

And there's a reverence in that
where you're like,

"This was a blank
piece of paper before,

"and now it has a story on it."

I've been in some amazing,
amazing creative flows,

some really great moments

where I'm just making
terrible, terrible work.

Stuff that I'm like,
"This is a piece of shit."

You know, and it's great

because I'm in that flow
and I'm...

And I'm moving and I'm like,
"Well, I'm just gonna try

"putting some
fucking gold leaf on here."

Or like, "I'm gonna try...

"I've got some
oil paint over here.

"I wonder what would happen
if I did that."

And that freedom,
that letting go is like...

"Ah, it feels great!"

And sometimes you do that
and some great work comes out

and you make
some great paintings and...

And that's awesome.
But flow isn't...

Isn't this magical,
perfect moment of creation.

It's being...
It's being connected

to the act of creation,
and that doesn't look perfect.

The zone that you get into
when you're creating

is kind of like a drug.

And there are days
when I don't get into that

and then
I'm just, like, so angry.

And then I'm like,
"Everything sucks."

And then the days
when I am in it, I'm like,

"Oh, my God,
I could get hit by a car

"and I would feel great."

The times where it does happen,
where those...

Where the whole world melts away

and all that's in front of you
is this piece and you're...

You're infatuated
with the stroke,

the application,
the form, the shape,

and it's amazing,

and those times where you can
finally shut everything else out

and that comes out, it's...

We all get
a little self-conscious

about using
these overly poetic terms,

but it's beautiful. It is.

It's poetry. It's glorious.

It's a really amazing thing
that we're capable of doing

when we allow ourselves
to do it.

I think it's important

to prepare your mind
to be creative.

Shooing those little people
out of the room.

They're very small.
There's little people.

There's little voices
in your head that tell you,

"You can't do this.
You can't do that.

"You can't say this.
You can't think this."

Then you let people back
in the room one at a time,

and then you just cover up
the best you can.

It's so hard to, you know...

First you let the editor in

and then he just
starts killing people.

Just picking motherfuckers
off left and right.

"Not good enough."
[MIMICKING GUNSHOTS]

You suck. [MIMICKING GUNSHOTS]

"You can't do that."
"You sound like so-and-so."

"You don't sound enough
like so-and-so." [MIMICS GUNSHOT]

And he's just like picking
them off all over the place, like carnage.

Creative carnage everywhere.

And you have to get this asshole
out of the room.

But you make a deal
with the asshole,

you let him back in

with the machine gun
when you're finished.

Some people make art
really well when they're frustrated or upset

or fighting with the art
or struggling with the art,

and I don't really do it
that way.

I have to have, like,
an ebb and flow with the art,

and I have to be having fun

and kind of like dancing around

and doing the shit,
the music's going,

and if that gets interrupted,

if there's a moment or hours
of tension and confusion,

and I can't solve the problem,

then I will joyfully
just destroy it

and get a blank sheet out
and just start over.

And it's kind of like
the greatest feeling in the world really

is when you start over

and you have a clean slate
in your...

It's, like, don't be
so precious with it. Don't...

This is not like
the Sistine Chapel, dude.

It's... This is one piece.

You can just do it
until you do it right,

if you have enough paper
or whatever,

KELLESIMONE:The crappy paintings
are important

because they prepare me, too.

I mean, the ones
that I really fight at

and that even sometimes
can never resolve and paint out,

those are preparation
for the ones that work.

BEN: Hurts to have
what you're doing

hanging on someone else's
approval, you know?

But I think the problem is

is when that leaks
into the creativity.

So there's where
you have to, like,

throw up a firewall
that's like none other.

You have to have
a firewall between...

It's like church and state,

like creativity and commerce
have to be...

Have to be separated,

because in a commercial
and artistic world,

you have to be able to...

To take one cap off
and put it on.

You have to be the guy
who doesn't care.

It's the only way
you can do it.

Then it comes time and you...

You know, you have to care
for a moment. You really do.

The business can always be
a detriment to the creative

and where I've never
had a point in my life

where I wanted to walk away
from making art.

Uh, I've constantly had a point

where I wanted to walk away
from doing it for a living.

I have wanted to earn money.

at a time when art
was not my main income.

So I... You know,
I was a professor

at Cal State for a while,

and as I said, I was a high
school teacher for a while,

um, bartended,
I've managed.

So I have worked at Costco
for a quick second.

I sold activewear.

Uh, don't be jealous.

And so I've... I...

You know, I have no problem
with side gigs,

and you know, I need to eat,

and I don't want to live
in a car, so...

But those things
have never taken over

my desire to work as an artist
and to live as an artist.

They have made it possible

for me to continue
to live as an artist.

JASON:Art was always the main goal.

It was always plan A.

I'd never allowed a Plan B.

So what that meant was
I would take

every shitty, small, weird job

and keep it for about
four to five months,

then some level of promotion
would be offered,

and I took that
as my cue to quit.

I just wanted to
make enough to live

to still try to make art

and I think also in my brain,
the shittier it was,

the harder I would work
to get away from it.

MARK: One of the things
that I've been trying to do

to be a better sound designer

is understand
all the other disciplines.

So I've been taking, um,
acting classes.

And I've been taking
writing classes.

And, um, right now I'm in
a comedy improv group,

and all of these are not because
I want to be any of them,

but I want to have
those new skill sets,

informed the skills
that I already have

because it will just...

It will just sort of
gently guide me

in other directions that
I wouldn't otherwise go to.

DAVE M.: Well, every new medium
and every new experience,

uh, informs the next one

and shines a light
on the previous one.

So, um, you know,
working with actors in a film

directly influences the way
you would draw characters

in a comic the next time,

because you've learned
so much from them.

You've learned so much about

the way that
they project emotions

and hold things back

and if you're
in any way observant,

you just sort of
take all this stuff in.

So all of these different things
feed each other. Um...

They clarify each other.

They, uh... They help.

MOLLY: I'm a writer
in addition to being an artist.

When you write something,

you have to
expect to be criticized,

and criticism is actually
the lifeblood of it.

It's, you know...
Criticism is discourse.

It's debate
in the public square.

And some of it's bullshit,
but some of it sharpens you

and makes you brighter
and stronger.

Because of that,

I tend not to completely
disregard criticism.

I tend not to be like,
"Oh, those are mean haters.

"I shouldn't look at them."

Instead, I try to...

I try to take it,
take it in stride

and learn from it what I can.

When you have an idea,
expect, uh...

Expect to be misunderstood.

Expect resistance.

And expect a lot of failure.

And I think if you just accept
and embrace those things,

then you're done with that.

Then... You can
put that behind you.

Then all you've got left is,

"Oh." And I meant it.

[PLAYING KEYBOARD NOTES]

[PLAYING KEYBOARD]

I remember the point
where I thought

it was all doomed, um,

which was...

There was a point
where, um, I wound up

having to query
our electricity bill.

Not because there was
anything wrong with it,

but because I realized
that if I queried it,

it gave us an extra five days.

And if I had an extra five days,

I could actually... You know,
the money would come in

and our electricity wouldn't be
cut off in the middle of winter.

I felt like I was in control
of the first half of my life

and then everything
blew up in my face.

Um...

It's very emotional.

I thought everything was okay.

You're a good guy.
You did good work.

You know,
what's so tricky about that?

I was raised by parents
that I love very much

who were really exceptional.

And then my mother
killed herself.

She, who always advocated
the affirmation of life,

killed herself.

And that changed my whole life.

I threw my drums in a lake

and left school.

They were floating
in the water.

And now if you go
to University of Miami

as a freshman
at a music school down there,

one of the first things
you'll hear

is, "Folds threw his drums
in the lake."

and they debate
whether or not that's true.

That funny?

It's pretty dramatic.
I was a big drama queen.

18 years old out there.

Had a broken hand
because I had gotten in...

Gotten in a fight,
which is so freshman stupid

and I got my ass
kicked really bad,

ended up in the hospital
all night long

and then when I showed up
for my drum,

uh, jury is the test that
determine like you are...

You know, your grade,
basically, for the year,

and I had
a full scholarship there,

which was necessary for me.

Well, I lost it immediately

because I had to get
dropped off in a cop car

with stitches everywhere,
broken hand,

and I had to take the most
important test of my life.

I was dropping sticks,
the band's still playing

and I was supposed to be
sight reading like... [SINGS NOTE]

[IMITATES JAZZ BEAT]

Dropping sticks and everything.

And so I came out.
I was like, "Fuck it.

"I just lost everything.
I've lost everything.

"I can't believe this.
I have to leave school."

And I knew I was gonna
lose my scholarship,

so I just took my drums.

I rolled them out in the cart
to Lake Osceola

in Coral Gables, and I threw
them in one at a time

and we took pictures of them.

And then I went and waited
tables until I was 27.

It's a long time to wait tables.

I bus tables, too. I do both.

The... The sort of
the inexorable rise upwards,

um, may make sense
looking back on it.

At the time, all I wanted
when I was a young writer,

the idea of books
with my name on the spine,

learning new skills

and make enough
to feed my family

and not have
the electricity turned off.

That was... That was my goals.

The reality is that I spend
most of my time very anxious.

I mean, I do question myself
all the time.

I do worry about the perception
of the work that I'm creating,

whether it's going to satisfy
the audience, whether it's...

Whether I'm producing something
of value, of worth, um, and...

And I do worry a lot about
what I'll be doing next.

When I talk to a lot of
different artists or performers,

they'll say that at some point,

they're worried that
they're going to be found out

as a fraud.

There is a very
well-known phenomenon

called imposter syndrome.

But before I knew it was
called imposter syndrome,

I had my own name for it,
which was the fraud police.

It was my term, uh,

to describe that idea
that there is, like an entity,

a solid entity of other adults

who know that
you're full of shit

and that you really
aren't allowed

to be doing what you're doing,
especially if you're an artist.

I think part of
the nature of an artist

is you look at the stuff
that you do

and say, "Ugh, that's terrible."

You know, no matter
how successful you are,

no matter how much work
you've done,

you can only see the parts of it
that you did roll.

The problem that artists
seem to have in particular

is that they're so convinced

underneath everything
that what they're doing

isn't real, isn't useful,
isn't valuable,

that they're somehow pulling one
over on everybody

by deciding to make art.

And...

It took an endless stream
of years

and years and years
of programmers

and doctors and lawyers

and teachers and plumbers

and people from
all other walks of life

with legitimate "jobs"
coming up to me after shows

and hugging me, saying,

"Please keep doing
what you're doing.

"I need you just as much
as you need me."

And it took thousands
of those people

before I finally was like,
"Okay, I believe you."

It's a huge part of the reason
that when I play music,

I don't just make it
and slide it under the door.

I want to be there

with the people
who are receiving it

because I need
to see them receive it

and I need to know
that it is making

some kind of difference
in their lives,

because if I can't see that,

I will live in that fear that

maybe I'm not real.

Maybe this isn't valid.

Maybe I am pulling one
over on everybody.

Fear is a feeling

that's trying to protect you.

Which isn't necessarily useful

in the environment
that we live in now.

Like, maybe
thousands of years ago,

you know, when we had
deep-rooted fears of nature

or of things that would eat us.
Pretty useful.

But when we get to this idea
of abstracted fear,

I think that, to me, now,
is a marker of

coming up against
what society has trained us

to think
it's normal and appropriate,

and that we are about to
transgress potentially some...

Some of those rules.

And I have now
trained myself to think

as soon as I feel
that abstracted fear,

sort of bubbling, then that
means I'm hitting a boundary

that society's taught me
not to cross,

so that maybe I should cross it.

I take failure very personally.

I go to a very dark place

pretty quickly.

Um, once I get through
the grief [CHUCKLES] phase,

I start to think to myself,

"Am I gonna grow from this?

"What mistakes
did I make in this process?"

Even if it wasn't my fault,
I don't think it's my fault.

"How could I improve
this situation the next time?"

Because I think
life is a process,

and if you're not growing
and learning,

then you're dying and it's...
It's just not worth doing.

Uh, almost everything
that I have done

that I can remember,

I have a few terrible days
at the beginning of it

where I've forgotten
how to draw.

And everything I've done
that day is gone in the bin.

And, um, I have to
go back to the house

and I have to tell Claire
that I'm going to go

and get a proper job because
I've forgotten how to draw now.

And every time she pats me
on the head and says,

"Try again tomorrow,"
and it's fine tomorrow.

But this is... This seems to be
the process of recalibration.

I have to... I have to do

a day of panic and rubbish,

and I can feel it in my...
In my... In my...

I can feel it
in the back of my own mind,

um, that I'm worrying about it

or over-obsessing
or overthinking

or too aware or I'm...
I'm not...

I'm just not relaxed.

I'm just not in that
relaxed state

of saying, "It's okay.
I've done this before.

"This is a little
bit different, but I can do this."

Whenever I'm having fun,
whenever I'm happy,

back there somewhere,

there's always
whatever that was in me

as a little kid that
needed to say something

that was insecure

and never believed
in himself, uh,

in terms of other people.

I never had any doubt
in myself as an artist.

I only had doubt that anybody
would ever like me worth a shit,

see, and I live with that
to this day.

So, that's the whole thing
about you.

You got to sit back
and look at your thing and go,

"Did I do it? Yes, I did."

And accept that
that was your success

and not what
somebody says about you.

If you can manage that one,

then you've won
a lot of the battle.

Yeah.

I try to connect with people

that have had
similar experience,

like when I did my suicide show.

But it's...
Even then I feel like

I'm guilty of some sort of

...opportunism.

The show provided a forum

for people to speak
of subjects that were not easily brought up.

People who had
experienced suicide were there

and stayed long at the show

and began to talk to each other
about their own experiences.

So, you know, self-criticism,

it's bad.

You know, self-censorship,

the worst.

The worst kind of censorship
there is.

So you do
what you're inclined to do

and you try to see some...

...new truth in it.

And if you can see it,

you can facilitate it,

uh, facilitate its access
for others.

Self-doubt,

I don't think
it ever goes away.

I'm almost 40 now,

and I... It still comes up.

And if I read
a shitty review of my stuff

and I hear someone calling me,
you know, a talentless fraud,

I still... That...
That cage still gets rattled,

Um, but I've felt it enough
at this point

to just go like, "Oh, yeah,
it's that thing happening.

"Hi, you. Hello, fear.

"Uh, let me take your hand
and remind you that,

"like, that's probably,
you know...

"All your old wounds
are getting ripped open,

"and that's what's happening.

"Got it. Okay,
let's move on with our day

"and not, uh,
let it ruin our day."

And, you know,
you befriend the dragon,

as my friend Anthony
used to say,

"Befriend every dragon.

"You know, they're there..."

Listen to this child.
He's going...

Ha.

Squeaking.

Um...

Yeah, you...
You do learn over time

to just accept
and befriend your...

Your own self-hatred

and your inner critic
and your inner asshole.

"Befriend Your Inner Asshole."

That's my next book.

JIM: Being a freelancer,

it's like something always
has come along to save me,

And it's been going on
for over 18 years now,

and so, you learn
the ups and downs,

and that becomes your routine.

Even in the darkest times.

you know,
I've always known that

like, something's gonna
come along to save me.

And when the economy
crashed in '08,

I had no work for a while,
and I was like,

"Something will come along
and save me,

"or I'm gonna, like,
end up homeless

"soon." you know?

And then something
came along and saved me.

So, that adds
to your confidence of,

"I think I'm just gonna
do this forever, you know,

"and nothing's gonna stop it."

Ignorance is a great quality
to have.

That's something that
maybe people might think

I'm a lunatic for saying.

People say,
"Why didn't you go back home

"when you came out here
and everything was so horrible?"

Because it was horrible.

And I said, "I always thought
it was gonna be okay."

You know? I came out here.

I got this thing I'm...
I'm headed toward.

I'm not sure what it is.

I never wanted... You know,
I never thought to be a star

or be a movie star
or any of those things.

But I wanted to work in it.

I knew that much.

I knew I wanted to be
an artist,

and I knew I had
something in me that was.

And so, if you know that
and you want it,

just go toward it
and don't ever stop.

COOP: If this were an easy job
that anybody could do,

everybody would do it,

because why would
you want to do anything else?

But it ain't,

and it's not going to be
and it's...

Yeah, if you want to
wake up every morning

with crushing self-doubt and...

And have constant anxiety
over how much money you do

or don't have
in your bank account

and whether
you're ever going to sell

another painting in your life,

then, boy, this is the...
This is the life for you.

I... I think
I've kept making art

even through the fear,
fear of failure,

fear of embarrassment,
fear of looking stupid,

uh, fear of letting people
know my secrets.

Uh, I think I've done all that

just through
stupid perseverance.

Just... Just turning off
that fear and being like,

"Do you really
wanna turn back?"

You know if you got it in you,

just keep going
and just think

it's gonna work out, you know,

and I always tell people,
"The reason I'm in your home

"is because I was ignorant.
I was oblivious."

I never doubted that
I was going to be...

Achieve some degree of success.

Sooner or later.

You always think
it's around the corner.

You always think it's tomorrow.

And if you keep thinking
it's tomorrow,

no matter
how many tomorrows add up,

eventually today gets there.
[LAUGHS] You know?

Never...

Never put it down.

Even when it feels like
things are slow,

even when it feels like
you're not doing it,

just keep telling yourself

you are an artist,

and an artist is for life.

Sentence yourself to life,
if you really want to do it.

If you really wanna do it,
if it makes you happy,

DAVE: There's no quitting,
there's no quitting.

I think when I finally do quit,
some guy in, like, a trench coat

and like a big wide broom handle
will just show up

and [CHUCKLES] just, like,
[POPS] take me out.

I'll wake up somewhere
as, like, a farmer.

And 10 years younger.

But, um, any time
I've ever tried to quit

or thought of quitting,
the universe kind of just slaps me

and my face stops stinging.

I see, "Oh, I just
have to go this way now."

- PETRA: This might be better.
- BARRON: Yeah.

Try this.

What do you mean, try it?
You're trying it, right?

PETRA: Mm-hmm.

I just happen to have
a mask near me a lot.

- Shall I reveal
how many times... - That's it.

...you change costume
during the day?

- No.
- [CHUCKLES] Okay.

This is the the person
that has made

all the difference in my life.

I would probably be in jail
if it were not for her. Petra.

- And...
- Always there with the bail money.

You just don't care
about the practical realities.

- I don't live in the real world.
- Why shouldn't you?

- No.
- And I need a connection to the real world

- and that's you.
- And this is it.

BARRON: That's it.

This is the connection
to the real world.

Yes, yes.

You can see
how much trouble he's in.

A lot of people talk
about how art is,

how they access this world
inside their head.

But for me, art was always how
I connected with other people.

It was this way of communion,
especially when I was younger

and I felt like I couldn't
speak to other people,

when I felt like this awkward
weirdo in the corner.

Well, I've never really
bought into the idea

that art is a mirror of society.

I think it's an ongoing
conversation with the world.

And that implies
a degree of responsibility

that you must take because
you are having an effect.

If art... If creative acts
didn't have any effect,

why would you do anything?

At the very least,
you want to be heard,

you want to be understood.

At the most, you want to try
and affect some sort of change.

I don't believe
a novel or a painting

can change the world, but it...
It's a... It's a drip, drip.

It has an effect.

It has a slow pressure
in a certain direction.

You don't have to have culture
and society be on your side

to make something.
They don't have to be.

You just have to blow up
like a big blow fish,

put your shoulders back
and say it

and do what you need to do,

and, um, others
will be there with you.

Others see it the same way.

Anything that I made

has an audience.

What I'm saying is, if you
make something you believe in

that's good,
all these other people

have that same gene
or that same signal.

I think people will just have
an emotional connection, no matter what.

And, um...

The more of yourself
that you put into it,

the more that they'll be able
to read out of it.

Um, so I think

'cause you know,
it's a transference of energy.

So it's like
if you imbue this thing

with a bunch of energy,
your energy,

someone else is gonna be
able to sense that

in, like, the scientific term,
not, like, the hippy term.

BILLY: Every time you play
a different character

or write a song
or whatever it is,

you get another thing
out... Out of you.

And you hope that it can
help other people too.

Or at least other people can go,
"Yeah, I know what you mean."

Sometimes that's all you need.

Sometimes you don't need
anybody to help you out.

Sometimes you just need
to hear somebody go,

"Yeah, I know."

You know?
"I completely get it, dude,"

Human connection's
really satisfying,

and it feeds us,

uh, a very, very
nourishing food

to connect with
our fellow human beings

about the world around us
and about the world inside us.

And that is, you know,

as far as I'm concerned,
that is the genesis of art

and the reason that
anywhere you look

and everywhere you look,

human beings are making art
and sharing it with each other.

A lot of people
need to be heard.

I think they need to express
something somehow.

And if you can find a medium
to do that, to express

what... What's happening,
you're...

Even if that medium
is like your your laboratory

for figuring
something out yourself.

You might not even know
what you're trying to express.

Even the most naive artists,

there's a feeling,
complete human being.

and can express things
that mean something

to other feeling human beings,
you know.

It's almost like
a little empathy box, art.

DAVE M.: It allows you
to see through the eyes

and through the mind
and imagination

of this other person.

The rest of my time, really,
up until now

has just been
trying to refine that,

trying to deal
with that idea of,

um, art as a way
of seeing through

somebody else's eyes.

The work that I like
from others

tends to be
when they allow me

to understand
their point of view

and their world a little bit

and it doesn't have to be
a big thing,

it doesn't have to be
somebody in a war zone

or somebody's gone through
some terrible trauma.

I'm just as interested
in the small things

that they notice
about their kids

or the the fact
that they're getting older.

All of those things
that we go through,

I think you really see it
in their work.

The good ones, the ones who
can really communicate that.

Um, and that's what
I'm fascinated by,

and that's what I'm...

I guess my ambition is to try
and do that in my own work.

Had I been a painter,
with the ability to paint,

if I wanted to express myself,

I'd take a blank canvas,
splash some color across it,

you'd know how I felt.
If I was a singer,

I would open my mouth
and fucking "ah"

belt it out and you would know,

"That's what that motherfucker
feels inside."

That's a self-expression.

Unfortunately,
I fell in love with film,

which is the dumbest
art form on the planet,

because it makes you say shit
like, "I want to express myself.

"Give me $20 million
and Ben Affleck."

You know, it's... It's harder
to fucking make it happen

without gathering
a fucking small army

and shit like that.

Now, who do you
surround yourself with?

The same way I got started

in this business or anything

is the same way
I continue to this day, man.

It's like you...

You can't get anything done

if you're surrounded
by "why" type people.

If you throw a rock
in this world,

you will hit a "why" person

because the moment
you step outside

of the very specific
prescribed box we've all got,

you make people nervous.

So you're like,
"Hey, I wanna make...

"Like, I wanna make a movie."

Immediately you're dealt with.
You're dealing with, "Why?

"Why do you think you can
make a movie? Why now? Why...

"Why you and not me? Why?"
There's a lot of that shit.

You've got to
surround yourself with

"why not" people who can't
make anything out of why.

You know, you'd spend
most of your time

answering fucking questions
and nothing moves forward.

You surround yourself
with "why not."

So motherfucker, you say,
like, "I wanna make a movie."

Motherfucker's like, "Yeah.
Why not? That sounds fun.

"Why not? Oh, my God,
I never thought I'd do that.

"That'd be neat.
All right. Why not?

"I mean, I've seen
fucking Clerks.

"He could make a movie.
I can make the same thing."

"Why not" spirit, man,
is the type of people

I surround myself with,
and you don't...

It doesn't mean like, you know,
they're not getting paid

because then
that's a real good question.

Like, "Why not, motherfucker?"

But it's a sensibility,
a spirit,

like a creative spirit,

you know, that's just like,
"Let's dive in."

I go to a lot of
comic book conventions

and talk to people
that come up to me.

They're like,
"I really want to draw.

"I really want to write.

"But, you know, I'm too scared."

And my advice to them is like,

"Well, you know, you've
got to jump in feet first

"into the deep end."

And sometimes
that's what it feels like.

I feel like I'm just trying
to stay above water.

But you know,
I'm still in the pool,

and I haven't drowned yet.

BOB: I use Rocky Horrorall the time.

And I say, "Look, you know,
when you see Frank-N-Furter

"climb that RKO tower,

"everybody thinks he jumps
in a pool from there.

"It's like, 'No.'"

At first it was a mist.

It was a fog.

It was a leap of faith.

How do you get
to where you want to be

is what he does
when he comes out of the water.

Don't dream it. Be it.

And that's what you have to do

and anything,
you wanna be a comedian,

you want to be a hairdresser,
I don't care what you wanna be.

You've got to do it.

We all want to share.

You know, there's three things
we need in life:

food, fucking, and to be heard.

And to be heard
is the point of the arts, man.

"I was here.

"Look at these ideas I had.

"Do you feel this way?"

It's a shout into the darkness
about like, "This is how I feel.

"Do you understand?
And you hope to fuck

there are people out there
that go, "Yeah."

And it don't matter
if there's one or 1 million,

you've been heard.

MOLLY: You can bring, uh,
beauty and joy

to your life and the lives
of those around you.

You can take the things
that you are good at and...

Or that you do every day

and you can bring them
attention and love and rigor,

and you can make them better

and you can make
other people's lives better.

And I think that that
is so much more important

than privileging the idea

that visual artists
or artists are better people.

No, it's... We can all
be better people

by just doing what we love
or doing what we do better.

One of the greatest things
I've ever learned

is once I dropped my envy

of other artists,

I got not only better,

but it just made it
so damn easy

to do what you wanna do.

I do want to get to a place
where I can just be like,

"You know, I don't give a shit
about what anyone else thinks."

And I am slowly
working into that,

um, you know...

Uh, but it takes...
It takes a lot of work.

And, you know,
I have this conversation

with other artist friends
of mine.

You know, like,
one of my best friends

has been a comic book artist
for, like, 20 plus years,

and he's still...
He's like, "I'm a hack!"

I'm like, "You are
an award-winning artist."

So I guess you never really
get to a place

where you're like,
"Oh, this is great. I'm fine."

The person who knows
what they're doing

knows that they only kind
of know what they're doing.

But that is the person
who knows what they're doing.

Um, they know that
they're living on a tight rope,

and they know that they don't
actually have the answers,

and they know that
they're improvising.

And I feel like
you go through...

You go through several steps.

First, you think
you're full of shit.

Then you sort of know
that you're full of shit,

but that it's okay
that you're full of shit

because life is improvising.

And you, like, tap yourself
on the head

with your own magic wand,

and you're like, "Okay, no,
actually, I'm not alone.

"Everyone is sort of winging it.
Good. Okay, got it.

"I'm a little full of shit,
but that's not inauthentic."

And then step three is,

you get that
that's the only way to be

and that is actually
true wisdom.

Like you're not pulling one
over on anyone

by improvising constantly

and not having concrete answers.

I still don't really think
I've figured out what I'm doing.

There's definitely
a part of me that's...

That's sort of, you know,
"Next... Next month.

"I'll get it right next month."

"I kind of... I've learned
something this month.

"Let's see
if that makes a difference.

You know, so, you're always
pushing yourself,

you're always
trying to see where the...

Where the path takes you,

and sometimes you realize,

"Oh, hang on. I was doing
something more interesting

"three months ago or a year ago,

"and maybe
this isn't quite right."

But you know,
the nice thing about comics is

it never stops.

I, still to this day,
get completely fascinated

when people will ask me
for an opinion or advice

or what I think, and I will
say, "Well, you know, this worked."

"I would do this."
And people's response is,

"Well, of course that worked
for you. You are Neil Gaiman."

As if I was, you know...

Came down on some
kind of cloud with angels

chanting hosannas
as I came and...

And at the ground, at the bottom
of the golden staircase,

there were publishers lined up

waiting with contracts
and golden pens

for me to sign
the contracts with.

And you go, "No, it didn't...
It wasn't like that."

You know, my first year
as a writer,

I earned £700.

My next year as a writer,
you know, I earn 5,000

or something like that,
and it just sort of crept up.

People ask where
you get your ideas from

or how to succeed
as an illustrator

and all of these sorts of things

and I don't have a key.

I think they'd really
just like me

to write an address down
and say, "Write to this person

"and they'll tell you
exactly how to do it."

Uh, it doesn't really
work like that. Um...

The only... I mean,

apart from more general things

that maybe we've talked
about before

about being engaged in the world

and, uh, finding
those personal things

that create a sort of
personal language for yourself

to express the things about
the world that interests you.

Specifically, start things.

Um, lots of people
prevaricate their whole lives

whether they're gonna
ever write that novel.

Uh, so start things.

It's very important
to start things,

make the time to start things.

And then finish things.

I feel like every day I got
to do everything I possibly can.

You know, I always think
I got to write all the songs.

I got to record all the songs,

I got to write all the movies,

I got to act in all these
different kinds of movies,

uh, and I got to write a novel
fairly soon, too.

I feel like I have to
get them all done.

DAVE: Make things,
just keep making things.

When you get sad,
definitely make things.

When you're angry,
create as much as you can.

Think about what it is
you wanna

put out there in the world
and just go for it.

Like, don't be afraid.

Or... I mean,
actually be afraid.

You're going to be afraid.
You're gonna be very afraid,

uh, sometimes,

But just embrace that fear,
ride it and just see...

See how far you go with it
and see what happens.

See what it does
to other people.

See what it does
to the world around you.

And, yeah, I think that's
the best thing you could do.

Because that...
All that fear, that's living.

Like, the anxiety,
the worry, that's living.

The more I've looked around
at my surroundings

and the more
I look at the people,

the human beings
that populate this planet,

the more I realize that

we just punish ourselves
so deeply

with the rules and regulations

around what art is
and who is an artist

and who's a creative.

So I got an offer to go
talk to Microsoft.

There's a program
called Microsoft Women,

and they paid me to come in
and give them a talk.

And it occurred to me that day

that my mom
was a computer programmer

and I should call her.

And after asking her questions

and sort of getting her to open
up a little bit after about...

After about an hour-and-a-half,

she said, you know,

"One of the first things
that you ever said to me

"when you were a teenager,
Amanda,

"was when you accused me
of not being an artist."

You know, and there I was,
like, being a bitchy 15-year-old going,

you know, "I'm an artist
and you're not,

"and you know nothing.
And, like, I'm so creative

"and you're just some,
like, person in a suit."

And... And she said,
"I felt like an artist.

"But I was an artist
in an empty room

"with no one to applaud me
at the end of the workday."

And how true is that
for so many people out there,

MOLLY: Everyone should be
fucking creative.

Everyone should feel like

that if they wanted,
they could, you know, try music

or they could try drawing,

or they could write
the thoughts in their heart.

Like, that is not something

that should be
beaten out of anyone.

It is your human entitlement.

And, uh, don't listen to anyone

who says that
you shouldn't do...

That you shouldn't
try to express yourself.

AMANDA: All of life
is about creativity.

And all of life is about just
bringing a connected passion

to whatever it is
that you're doing,

whether it's chopping onions,

making a stew,

you know, writing a book,

making a painting,
making a child.

Everything is and should
and can be

a creative act.

I know a lot of people
who, uh...

Who are not full-time artists,

but they are creative.

And for some reason,

they've been told
that you have to choose.

You cannot do both.

That's bullshit.

If you are an attorney
but you really love poetry,

before you go to bed,
write a few lines of your poem.

You know, if you have
always wanted to paint,

take a class,

or get on YouTube.

You can learn everything
on YouTube now.

Like there's...
There's no excuse

to not live out
that part of yourself,

if that's what you want to do.

So, do it.

Just fucking...
Look, I go back to Boston.

Fucking do it. Whatever.

Just do it.

Just don't overthink it.

Just do it
until you get better at it

and start...
Just don't think about starting,

just do it.

If you're thinking
about it right now,

pick up the pencil
and just do it.

Don't even let me
finish my sentence.

Just start doing it.

Put all of yourself
into what you do,

no matter what it is.

Even if you...
If you write something

and you feel like you never
want anyone to see it,

write it anyway. Then burn it.

But do it.
You have to get it out.

You have to release
that creativity that I...

That I think
everybody is blessed with.

I think every single person
born is creative by nature,

and it's just a matter of
whether they act on it or not.

My parents,
I love them to death,

never once said, "You can be
whatever you want."

Like, I remember my mom
specifically being like,

"Your brother's a waiter.

"So maybe
you could be a busboy."

Like, Smiths
didn't shoot high, man.

Like, my old man
was the kind of guys like,

"See that mountain range
over there?

"See that mountain?
Never climb it."

So it's not like
my father was ever like,

"You can do anything you want."

But he showed me that
I could do anything I want

by taking me to the movies
all the time.

Dude took me to the movies
every Wednesday

that I can recall
of my childhood.

When I started, when I was like,
"I wanna go to film school."

He didn't quite understand that.

But they didn't stop it either.
You know what I'm saying?

Both him and Mom
were like, "Oh, yeah, do it.

"And then it'll get out
of your system,

"come home and be a waiter."

He, uh... He passed away
a couple years ago,

10 years ago.

A phone call at 6:00
in the morning,

you know,
which never feels good,

and I get in
the emergency room doors.

I look at my brother.
I'm, like, confused.

My brother makes perfect eye
contact with me and just goes...

I was like, "What happened?"

And he goes,
"Dad died screaming."

He wasn't even looking at me.

He was just kind of looking
out in the parking lot,

and he'd say it
the way you would say,

"I'm gonna go
get a mocha latte."

It's like, "Dad died screaming."

And I said, "Jesus Christ."
In a world where that's true,

there's... Makes no sense

that I don't spend
every waking hour

of this best of all
possible worlds,

and the one and only life I got,

trying to make every single
fucking dream I have

come true.

Just fucking do it.
I don't care how stupid it is.

Do it. Like, if it's a dream,
fucking chase it.

Unless your dream
is hunting small children,

then obviously
I'm not talking to you.

But if it's something
that doesn't hurt anybody,

and in fact could help people

fucking make them
pass a little time

chase it down. Do it.

Like, honestly,
eventually I got to a point

where I made a fucking movie
about a guy

who turns another guy
into a walrus.

And a lot of people say,

"That has everything
to do with weed."

And they're absolutely right.

But that also has everything
to do with my old man.

Like, you know, I got
to a point with my art,

with my creativity,
where I was just like,

"What are you
holding back for?"

Like, you want to fucking
go out screaming

and know that you didn't fucking
just put it all out there,

just go for it every time.

If it's stupid, who cares?

If they don't like it,
who gives a fuck?

You, who gets
to express yourself.

You win.
Doesn't fucking matter,

anything else.

Express yourself
for the thousands,

billions of people that can't.

Express yourself for your dad.

I think all we want to
really do is...

is hopefully make our time

that we have here
mean something.

VINCENT: You gotta be okay with
baring your soul to the world.

That's kind of scary, I guess.

And it's going to be
met with...

Not everyone's gonna like it,
you know.

It's just... I mean, I don't...

I'm not deluded.

And I don't think
that everyone in the world

can hang one of my paintings
in their living room.

You know,
it's not for everyone.

But for the people that
it is for, you know, that's...

That's what's important to me,
you know, and...

And even if it evokes a response

in the people that it's not for,
you know.

Uh, I recently met
with some, uh...

Some people, um,
some collectors who came in

and, um, you know,
they were really...

There were about five of them
and you know, the...

Four of them were...

You know, absolutely
loved the work

and the other one turned white

and actually got nauseous,

and he had a physical
response to the work.

And it almost literally
got him sick,

like, he was...
Like, to his stomach

because of the fact
that it was blood

and, you know, and whatever else
was going on in his head.

And I think that's awesome.

I love that. Because it...

It lets me know that something
real is happening, you know?

And that's... You know,
my job is done.

You know, I feel like
that's rewarding for me,

if I can make someone puke.

It's part of our job
as cultural producers

to give something
to push back against.

Um, I think it is actually
some responsibility on our part

to not to make this world
a better place,

but to at least expand
the realm of imagination,

um, because only through that
can we then even begin

to think of how the world
could be, or should be.

Our goal is to transgress

and to constantly sort of
live in this state of flux,

um,

with whether it's through
our own process

or also just
what we end up making.

And I think that that is
why we need artists.

DAVE M.: I did a book
when I was in my 20's

with Neil Gaiman
called Signal to Noise,

and it was about, um,
a creative person

who found that they only
had a few months to live.

And how does that
affect your choices in life?

And I always
loved that question.

I thought it was a really
fascinating question,

because I think we all
have to kind of deal with that to a degree.

Um, but I was in my 20's.

I didn't... I have no idea
what that meant.

I'm now 50 and it's...

Time is passing

and, um, I know much more
clearly what that means.

And if finding out I only had
another six months to live

changed my decisions now,

well, why aren't I just
doing those things now?

At the end of the day,

if this is all imaginary,

it's like,
"Why aren't you just doing

"what you love doing anyway?"

Then you don't have any excuses.

There is this ineffable

human spirit that I don't...

It's like trying to
describe love.

We all know it's inside of us,
and it is...

It is elevated through art.

I go to a school or a film class

and somebody says,
"You know what?

"I saw that movie
that you did,The Fifth Element.

"And I loved
the sound of the spaceship.

"What did you make it out of?"

And I'm like, "Oh, fuck, man.
I live for that shit."

And that inspired somebody
to want to get into sound.

So I feel like, "What...

"Well, how much better
does he get than that

"when you can be
an inspiration to someone

"to also want to share their art
with other people?"

That's all I was doing was,

the director came to me
and said,

"Make some
crazy-ass sounds." "Okay."

And I made some
crazy-ass sounds, and I had fun.

And every time I see
The Fifth Element, I think,

"Those were cool sounds."

I did it for me,

and hopefully
it's gonna be fun for you

and eventually
that's gonna pay off.

And when I'm 95,
I'll still be thinking,

"Okay, I want to
get to this director.

"I'm gonna do the coolest
goddamn sound job

"you've ever heard,

"and people are gonna
talk about it,

"and that's gonna be a success.

"I'm gonna elevate the level
of my craft or my art

"with this film,

"and people are gonna
stand up and take notice."

I remember the point
I decided to become a writer.

There was me

before and there was me after,
and I was...

I'm not sure what I was,
20, maybe 21.

And I'd had a really bad night,

lying there in the dark
thinking about life,

wondering what I was gonna be,

wondering what I was gonna do.

And then I thought, you know,
"I think I'm a writer."

And then I thought,

"You know, I think that I'm not
doing anything about it."

And it's quite possible

that if I continue
not to do anything about it,

one day, I'll be 80, 85, 90,

and I'll be on my deathbed.

And I'll be lying
on my deathbed going,

"You know,
I could have been a writer."

And what would hurt

would not be saying,

"I could have been a writer,"
and the regret.

But what would hurt
would be not knowing

if I was lying to myself.

And I thought,
"I need to do this.

"I need to go out

"into the world
and try and be a writer.

"And it's okay if I fail.

"But I've got to try it

"because it would kill me

"if I thought that I had
lived an entire lie."

And that really...

Everything after that
was different.

Everything after that night
was just, "I am this thing.

"I'm going to do this thing.
I have no Plan B.

"I have infinite amounts
of chutzpah.

"And I can run through the air

"as long as I don't look down."

And I didn't look down.

I love being an actor
and I love being a musician.

The fact that I make records
and make movies thrills me.

I'm able to
take care of my family,

who I love very much,

uh, by doing something
that feeds my soul.

I know because it's been
so important to me

to deal with things, to deal
with the death of my father,

to deal with growing up,

to deal with my place in life
with my kids,

now I'm a satellite around them

and all of this sort of stuff

because my creative life,

I've been able to find a place
for all of these thoughts,

all of these ideas, um, and...

And worries and problems
and, um, anxieties.

And I found a place for them
in my drawings and my stories.

Um, I think

having a creative outlet
somewhere to put this stuff,

that's all I would wish
for anybody in anything.

My childhood hasn't ended yet.

I'm still...

I'm still engaged and excited
by everything

and possibilities always
sort of call to me and...

And I... And I do...

I do perpetuate the child
in me as much as I can.

I still model things out
of clay.

I still play with Lego bricks,
and goodness knows what else.

Yeah, I'm...
I'm looking for outlets

that will allow me
to kind of have fun

and play around and...

And drawing is fun.

It's my comfort zone.
I mean, that's the thing.

I mean, the fact that
I do it all the time

and I've made a career out of it

and you will hear me
moan my head off

when deadlines are tight

and I haven't had any sleep
for two days,

and I'm really worrying about

whether I'm gonna get
this book out of the door.

But that aside,

when I wake up in the morning,

the only thing I'm thinking
is I want to draw again today.

I believe, I have to believe

that the most important thing
that human beings have

is our imaginations.

Nothing else compares.

And it's the place where
everything else starts.

Whether you are
some kind of artist

or you are some kind of writer,
whatever you are,

mostly what you're doing
is you're bricklaying.

You're taking a brick
and you're putting it in place

and you're taking another brick
and you're putting it in place,

and you're taking another brick
and you're putting it in place,

and nobody's gonna
do it for you.

Elves will not come
in the night,

so if you do not put down
all of these bricks,

the wall will never get built,

and if the wall is never built,

then the rest of the structure
will never get built.

And this house of art

that you want to live in,

it won't exist.

So you pick up
another brick

and you put it down.

And then you pick up
another brick

and you put it down,

and that's how you build
the temple of art.

JON:We never know what's next.

That's the greatest
part of life.

It's this adventure, basically,

that you yourself have created.

If you're just working
at a job 9:00 to 5:00,

you kind of know what's next.

Guess what happens tomorrow?
You got to be there at 9:00.

Guess when you get to leave?
At 5:00.

When you're doing
your own thing,

when you're living
your own life, those are the...

You have to create the house
that you live in,

you have to create
the structure of your life

and that's when you don't
give up on yourself.

You have to believe in yourself.
That's the most important thing.

I find creativity in everything
that I do because I look for it.

I look for the hidden challenge

and then I... I task myself
with overcoming it.

You will learn more
from finishing a story

or a piece of art that you have
begun and abandoned

because it's not quite
good enough.

You'll learn more
from finishing it

than you will
from leaving a thousand

things that are good,
unfinished,

because none of them
are good enough.

You just have to finish it.
Do it.

So my advice

to people considering art
as a profession is...

Is take a really hard look
at what makes you happy

and what challenges you,

and if...
If these sort of conditions,

um, make you excited,
then absolutely pursue it

and then, uh,
just put in the time,

the hard work,
the dedication, um,

and nothing will stop you.

[LAUGHS] Bitch!

When people started doing
drawings on cave walls,

it was to make things happen.

You know, you draw a bison,

then you draw the hunters
sticking spears into it

and hopefully by creating
this little representation,

this voodoo doll of reality

and playing out a scenario

in which the bison gets starved
and everyone gets fed,

the next day, you go out,
inspired by this scenario

that you yourself have created,

this God-like situation
that's not real,

but you... You depict it.

You make a...
And you make a model of it.

And suddenly it makes it
more real.

You can go out the next day
and actually stab a bison

because you remember
what it looked like.

You remember last night
we all jumped up and down

and screamed and shouted,
here we're doing it for real.

I don't sit down
and write, like,

"What music
would make people happy?

"What music
would make people sad?

"What music would make
people feel something?"

I sit down
and I try to move myself.

And I assume

that since I'm human
and you're human,

that if I can move myself,

chances are it will move you.

[IMITATING CHRISTOPHER WALKEN]
Art is great.

A painting,
especially with colors.

I don't... You know, sometimes
you don't understand something,

so you pick up a painting
and a brush

and you say,
"I mean, look at that.

"Did I do that?"

"Put it here?" [CLEARS THROAT]

"Yeah. Why not?

"Eh, shut up and dance."

I don't think there's anything
difficult...

about our collaboration.
Don't think there's anything difficult about it.

FEMALE PRODUCER: Can we cut
to you throwing shit at each other right then? [LAUGHS]

- Just choke me.
- Scratching.

Maybe a brutal stabbing...

That's the difference between
me and you. I said scratching and you said stabbing.

This is a technique
out of living

much used in the practice
makes perfect of psychoanalysister and brother.

- PRODUCER: I had no idea
what you're saying. - And one that's occupied

piper the majority rule
of my attention squad by the right number one

two three four
the last five years to the memory.

PRODUCER: Wow, what on earth
are you saying?

It is quite remarkable
baker charlie how much the miller's son

this so-called while you were
out word association

immigrants' problems influences
the manner from heaven

in which we sleekit cowering
timrous beasties

all-American Speke,
the famous explorer.

And the really well
that is surprising partner in crime

is that a lot and his wife
of the lions feeding time,

we may be c d e
effectively quite unaware

of the fact or fiction section

of the Watford Public Library
that we are even doing it

is a far, far better thing
that I do now

then, now then, what's going
onward Christian Barnaard the famous hearty part

of the lettuce now praise
famous mental homes

for loonies like me.

If you want
the world to know that

you are a writer,
an artist, whatever,

you have to let the world know,

and the upside is that
people will support you.

And if they hear of something
they think you can use,

they will bring it to you.

They will bring you resources
you couldn't find on your own.

And the downside is that

the people
who aren't fond of you

will use it as a knife
to stick in your butt.

And they'll say, "How is that
little writing thing going?

"How's that little book going?

"You got...
You got published yet?"

And they'll be dicks about it.

But even when they're
dicks about it,

that still makes you think,
"You just wait."

And some day it will work,

and they will be so amazed,

and they'll be just dazzled

that you actually
did that thing.