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The news of Europe
as it occurs the world is
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now awaiting the arrival
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in Berlin of German
Chancellor Adolf Hitler.
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America
must keep out
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of this war the President
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the Congress should be
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supported in their every
effort to keep us out.
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At 9 a.m. this morning
his Majesties Ambassador
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in Berlin informed
the German
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government a state of war
would exist between the
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two countries as from
that hour
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Now we are at
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war and we are
going to make war
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and persevere
in making war
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until the other side
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has had enough of it.
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My great uncle
Raemer Schreiber was born
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in 1910, in Yamhill
County, Oregon.
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He got up and did chores
early before school
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everyday I know he played
with his cousins
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he'd go out and build a
campfire for lunch and
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play for the
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afternoon and then return
just before dinner.
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He attended
McMinnville High School
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and then on to undergrad
at Linfield College
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he did Masters work at
the University of Oregon
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and completed a doctorate
in physics at
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Purdue University.
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He was a teaching
assistant they had to have
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a summer job
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so Uncle Raemer and Aunt
Marge would come back
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to Oregon
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where he worked on
my grandfathers farm.
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I think it said
of Uncle Raemer to
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have an amazing
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work ethic for the rest
of his life.
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He had opportunity
and a place to come back
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too, they put up some
vegetables,
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that they could take
back with them for
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the school year
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and it was a chance
to see family.
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My dad and his
farming days in
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McMinnville were long
and tedious and tiring
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it was certainly pre-
gasoline powered engine
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even for the
threshing machine
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because when he was ten,
they were threshing
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with a steam powered
thresher which had a
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belt on it that
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looked like it could
wrap up a building
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he did not like farming,
and in fact he
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thought he was
going to be an electrician
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when he was ten
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electricity came
to the valley
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he spent some
period of time
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wiring the houses
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it might have been
at Linfield,
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but Im inclined
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to think it was more
at the University of Oregon
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where he got
diverted to physics,
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and it was a result
of a professors intervention
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and it was a very
fortuitous decision on his
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part needless to say.
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My mom
decided to come for my
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graduation then in
June of '41
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we spent several
pleasant weeks together
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graduation was
the usual thing
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she probably only stayed
two or three weeks because
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pop wasn't in good
health at that time.
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I think the
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physicists that
came of age
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in the 1930's and
early 40's, represented
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American society as
a whole there were a fair
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number including
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Scheib, who grew up on
farms, some like
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Oppenheimer and
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Teller came from well
to do families so I would
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say the physicists
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represented American
society at the time, you
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had a little bit
of everything
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all kinds of backgrounds
all kinds of religions.
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Schreiber
epitomised physics
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and physicist
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out of the first era of
modernization they were
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exploring new territory.
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E is equal
MC squared showed
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that very amount
of mass may be
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converted into a very
large amount of energy.
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If Germany was
going to build an atomic bomb
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Heisenberg was going
to be the
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Oppenheimer of Germany
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Heisenberg
collaborating with others
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00:04:03,852 --> 00:04:05,070
in Germany and Denmark
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00:04:05,114 --> 00:04:07,464
elucidated the structure
of complex atoms and
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00:04:07,508 --> 00:04:09,031
announced the principle of
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00:04:09,074 --> 00:04:11,816
indeterminacy of
physical measurements.
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Heisenberg was an
internationally renowned
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physicist he came for a
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physics conference and
I know lectured
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around the country
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Uncle Raemer
took pictures of him and
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listened to his
lectures this was
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00:04:22,914 --> 00:04:26,222
a brilliant man
who had every possibility
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of developing the
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bomb before we got
it done in America.
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00:04:30,879 --> 00:04:32,968
One day a knock
at the door and there was
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Dr Oppenheimer coming
to see him
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he'd remembered
that Raemer had taken
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photos in those
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lectures at Purdue
and he asked if he
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still have the negatives?
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00:04:42,282 --> 00:04:45,023
We'll Percival
and I put in that summer
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00:04:45,067 --> 00:04:48,026
and fall getting
the Cyclotron
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00:04:48,070 --> 00:04:51,682
physically removed into
the new laboratory,
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00:04:51,726 --> 00:04:53,293
expected to take me
all the next year
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00:04:53,336 --> 00:04:55,469
with the help of several
graduate students
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in doing this.
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This was a very
important tool in early
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00:04:58,515 --> 00:05:00,343
nuclear research a
lot of people who
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00:05:00,387 --> 00:05:02,476
got started in the
Manhattan Project had
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00:05:02,519 --> 00:05:04,869
a background in in
some topic
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00:05:04,913 --> 00:05:08,177
related to particle
accelerator technology of
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00:05:08,220 --> 00:05:10,614
the day, Cyclotrons
were an important
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00:05:10,658 --> 00:05:12,747
emerging tool in
the study of nuclear
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00:05:12,790 --> 00:05:15,358
scattering and
nuclear reactions
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00:05:15,402 --> 00:05:17,708
he was really in an
ideal place at Purdue
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00:05:17,752 --> 00:05:20,232
with that Cyclotron,
to jump off
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00:05:20,276 --> 00:05:22,365
the precipice of the
new Nuclear physics
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00:05:22,409 --> 00:05:23,366
as it became important
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00:05:23,410 --> 00:05:25,063
for national security.
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00:05:25,107 --> 00:05:27,283
We'll that
summer after I did a
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00:05:27,327 --> 00:05:29,807
couple more things
to wind up my thesis
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00:05:29,851 --> 00:05:31,809
for publication, which
I never did quite get
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00:05:31,853 --> 00:05:34,072
wound up for.
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00:05:34,116 --> 00:05:37,598
For my dads
thesis, my mom typed it,
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00:05:37,641 --> 00:05:39,904
I know is an act of
intense activity
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00:05:39,948 --> 00:05:41,558
because it was
submitted 5 hours before
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00:05:41,602 --> 00:05:43,908
it was due and I
don't know
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00:05:43,952 --> 00:05:45,301
how many times my
mother typed it?
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00:05:45,345 --> 00:05:48,043
I would guess at the
end of the year that
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00:05:48,086 --> 00:05:50,262
she probably knew as
much about what dad did
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00:05:50,306 --> 00:05:52,395
as dad did because
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00:05:52,439 --> 00:05:56,181
she had learn
how to spell all that stuff.
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Schreib was truly
unique at Los Alamos
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00:06:00,795 --> 00:06:03,058
during the war
there were 6 or 7
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00:06:03,101 --> 00:06:05,800
thousand scientists,
technicians but there
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00:06:05,843 --> 00:06:08,063
really were only 2 or 3
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00:06:08,106 --> 00:06:10,935
people who could
actually build an atomic
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00:06:10,979 --> 00:06:11,980
bomb actually
put it together
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00:06:12,023 --> 00:06:13,808
handle the parts,
Schreib was one
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00:06:13,851 --> 00:06:15,244
of those people,
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Outside of Holloway
and one other person
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these are the only guys
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00:06:20,162 --> 00:06:22,469
who could really build
an atomic bomb Oppenheimer
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could conceive it,
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Teller could conceive
it, Bethe could conceive
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it, but those guys
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00:06:28,170 --> 00:06:30,302
really couldn't build it
they couldn't put their
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00:06:30,346 --> 00:06:32,130
hands on it, they
couldnt' assemble it
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and so this was the
role that Schreib played
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both at Trinity and again
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with Fatman on
Tinian later on.
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1938 brought
the startling discovery of
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fission of the
Uranium Nucleus by
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Neutron bombardment,
leading names in this
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research carried
on in Germany
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00:06:58,679 --> 00:07:02,900
were Dr Otto Hahn
and Dr Fritz Strassmann.
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The discovery of
nuclear fission was like
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00:07:05,686 --> 00:07:07,644
the discovery of fire.
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It was the
first major form of
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energy that does not
depend upon ultimately
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the sun so it was a
turning point for
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humankind when
that discovery was made
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Lise Meitner,
working at Copenhagen soon
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demonstrated that
fission of the
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nucleus was accompanied
by a release of enormous
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amounts of energy.
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Time was short the
inevitable entry of the
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United States was
accepted one reason
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for the decision to
concentrate forces against
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the Germans
was recognition
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that German scientists
could produce weapons
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of great devastation.
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Through the
cunard ladies and
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gentlemen we interrupt
this broadcast to bring you
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an important bulletin
from United Press flash
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Washington the White House
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announces Japanese
attack on Pearl Harbor
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stay tuned to WOR for
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further developments...
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On December
7th, 1941 there
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was Pearl Harbor
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we'll we weren't sure
what to do, research came
193
00:08:06,573 --> 00:08:09,489
to a grinding halt as
what was there for a
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00:08:09,532 --> 00:08:11,316
nuclear physicist to do?
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Oppenheimer and
a number of others were
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00:08:19,194 --> 00:08:20,587
recruiting extensively
across the
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00:08:20,630 --> 00:08:23,807
United States would raid
universities for graduate
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talent if
Oppenheimer couldn't
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00:08:26,288 --> 00:08:29,204
convince say a mentor
directly he would call on
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00:08:29,247 --> 00:08:30,771
James Conant at Harvard
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00:08:30,814 --> 00:08:32,381
to intervene on his
behalf and so these
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people were released
very often reluctantly
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00:08:35,036 --> 00:08:37,821
and with some
animosity during the early
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00:08:37,865 --> 00:08:39,519
part of the war.
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00:08:39,562 --> 00:08:41,303
There's a
continuing question of
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00:08:41,346 --> 00:08:44,219
what did I do to
help out the war effort
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00:08:44,262 --> 00:08:47,352
and periodically
somebody would come in
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00:08:47,396 --> 00:08:50,399
recruiting for these
other war related
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00:08:50,442 --> 00:08:54,577
research jobs and
every time I'd be
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00:08:54,621 --> 00:08:56,100
interviewed I'd
go and tell
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00:08:56,144 --> 00:08:59,103
Dr Lark-Horovitz about
it and he'd raise my
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00:08:59,147 --> 00:09:00,365
salary a little
bit and say
213
00:09:00,409 --> 00:09:02,759
"stick it out, don't
want you to go, do
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00:09:02,803 --> 00:09:04,456
the work here".
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00:09:09,505 --> 00:09:10,854
Marshall
Holloway showed up
216
00:09:10,898 --> 00:09:13,465
approached Perc
and myself the
217
00:09:13,509 --> 00:09:16,207
deal was worked
out that we were to
218
00:09:16,251 --> 00:09:18,470
work on a secret
project that we
219
00:09:18,514 --> 00:09:22,213
couldn't be told about
until we had agreed that
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00:09:22,257 --> 00:09:24,955
we would indeed
work on it,
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00:09:24,999 --> 00:09:27,871
and of course we did
agree our contacts
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00:09:27,915 --> 00:09:29,133
we're through either
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00:09:29,177 --> 00:09:32,267
Marshall or through
Hans Bethe who was
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00:09:32,310 --> 00:09:34,835
our theoretical
consultant
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00:09:34,878 --> 00:09:38,621
and we then worked
our tails off morning,
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00:09:38,665 --> 00:09:40,144
afternoon and evening
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00:09:40,188 --> 00:09:43,147
and most Saturdays, we
did did try to take
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00:09:43,191 --> 00:09:45,149
Sundays off keep our
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00:09:45,193 --> 00:09:51,155
wives happy, We'll in
May of '43 we were
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00:09:51,199 --> 00:09:55,159
invited to come out
to Project Y.
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00:09:55,203 --> 00:09:57,988
We finally convinced Hans
Bethe that the large
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00:09:58,032 --> 00:09:59,337
cross-section for the
233
00:09:59,381 --> 00:10:01,992
Deuterium/Tritium
reaction we've been
234
00:10:02,036 --> 00:10:04,038
measuring all summer was
235
00:10:04,081 --> 00:10:07,781
for real and so, we
closed out the
236
00:10:07,824 --> 00:10:09,696
project in September
237
00:10:09,739 --> 00:10:12,960
I well remember
Schreiber coming home
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00:10:13,003 --> 00:10:16,050
at noon, Paula was a baby
239
00:10:16,093 --> 00:10:19,749
and he sort of
mysteriously, swished me
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00:10:19,793 --> 00:10:22,665
back to the back
of the house
241
00:10:22,709 --> 00:10:25,973
and then portentously
said what would you think
242
00:10:26,016 --> 00:10:28,366
of going to New Mexico?
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00:10:28,410 --> 00:10:32,153
All I knew about New
Mexico was the Capital
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00:10:32,196 --> 00:10:34,459
was Santa Fe and
I had no idea
245
00:10:34,503 --> 00:10:37,332
what sort of a place it
was, I thought it was
246
00:10:37,375 --> 00:10:39,595
all desert,
rattlesnakes and things
247
00:10:39,639 --> 00:10:43,120
like that and actually
it didn't sound to
248
00:10:43,164 --> 00:10:45,601
interesting but this
was wartime and
249
00:10:45,645 --> 00:10:49,387
I said, its alright
with me if you want
250
00:10:49,431 --> 00:10:51,563
to go Ill go
251
00:10:51,607 --> 00:10:53,609
Everybody
was suppose to go and
252
00:10:53,653 --> 00:10:56,220
take whatever vacation
they wanted to take
253
00:10:56,264 --> 00:10:59,746
for the duration and
Marge and Paula got on
254
00:10:59,789 --> 00:11:03,227
the train and went
out to Oregon
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00:11:03,271 --> 00:11:06,100
Traveling in
wartime is something you
256
00:11:06,143 --> 00:11:09,277
don't attempt unless
you're strong and
257
00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:13,237
I wasn't strong but I was
ignorant, I didn't
258
00:11:13,281 --> 00:11:15,718
realize how difficult
it was going to
259
00:11:15,762 --> 00:11:20,157
be to take a baby and
our luggage, my 70 plus
260
00:11:20,201 --> 00:11:24,205
year old mother
and change trains
261
00:11:24,248 --> 00:11:28,426
and all of the soldiers
traveling everyone
262
00:11:28,470 --> 00:11:30,080
traveling, the
soldiers were
263
00:11:30,124 --> 00:11:32,213
a help they helped me
any number of times
264
00:11:32,256 --> 00:11:34,345
when I got in a bind.
265
00:11:34,389 --> 00:11:38,088
And I had the
car of course, I got to
266
00:11:38,132 --> 00:11:40,743
Santa Fe a day
early and decided to
267
00:11:40,787 --> 00:11:43,050
follow my nose and see
if I couldn't get up here
268
00:11:43,093 --> 00:11:45,966
to Los Alamos.
So I knew the
269
00:11:46,009 --> 00:11:47,750
general direction to
take and I then saw a
270
00:11:47,794 --> 00:11:50,187
rather broad road
that showed
271
00:11:50,231 --> 00:11:53,234
a lot of signs of traffic
turning off there, so I
272
00:11:53,277 --> 00:11:54,539
followed it
came right up
273
00:11:54,583 --> 00:11:57,238
to the guard gate much
to the consternation
274
00:11:57,281 --> 00:12:00,284
of the MPs. I asked
275
00:12:00,328 --> 00:12:01,851
for the gentleman whom
I had been corresponding
276
00:12:01,895 --> 00:12:03,766
with here and they
277
00:12:03,810 --> 00:12:06,421
didn't know what quite
what to do? But finally
278
00:12:06,464 --> 00:12:08,945
an MP got in the car with
279
00:12:08,989 --> 00:12:13,645
me and brought me in
and I found the man
280
00:12:13,689 --> 00:12:15,430
in question
281
00:12:15,473 --> 00:12:16,692
and talked to him a
little bit and he was a
282
00:12:16,736 --> 00:12:18,259
little surprised that
283
00:12:18,302 --> 00:12:21,044
I got in without any
passes being arranged.
284
00:12:21,088 --> 00:12:23,568
But he started to to talk
285
00:12:23,612 --> 00:12:26,049
and I said we finished up
work on the Cyclotron
286
00:12:26,093 --> 00:12:27,790
and he said shhh! Because
287
00:12:27,834 --> 00:12:30,184
the MP was standing
outside and he had to keep
288
00:12:30,227 --> 00:12:32,316
me in his sight,
289
00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,232
because MPs didn't know
what Cyclotrons were
290
00:12:35,276 --> 00:12:36,538
or why they were of
291
00:12:36,581 --> 00:12:40,194
interest there. Anyhow,
having accomplished
292
00:12:40,237 --> 00:12:42,457
my mission essentially,
293
00:12:42,500 --> 00:12:46,287
mostly curiosity and I
eventually got out to
294
00:12:46,330 --> 00:12:49,072
Oregon spent about 10
days there
295
00:12:49,116 --> 00:12:54,164
and then after many
farewells Marge and Paula
296
00:12:54,208 --> 00:12:56,471
and I came back same
297
00:12:56,514 --> 00:12:59,604
route via Denver, well
the time the bus hauled
298
00:12:59,648 --> 00:13:02,303
us into Santa Fe it
was pushing on
299
00:13:02,346 --> 00:13:06,220
toward 5 I went roaring
over to 109 East Palace
300
00:13:06,263 --> 00:13:08,135
for our passes
and they said
301
00:13:08,178 --> 00:13:12,356
I hope we can get you
through because they won't
302
00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,837
let you in up
there after 6 o'clock
303
00:13:14,881 --> 00:13:16,970
well in the meantime we
hadn't had any lunch,
304
00:13:17,013 --> 00:13:21,017
so on the way to
or from 109 East
305
00:13:21,061 --> 00:13:23,846
Palace I'd seen a bakery
and popped in there
306
00:13:23,890 --> 00:13:25,674
and got some sweet rolls.
307
00:13:25,717 --> 00:13:29,025
We started for Los Alamos
gave Paula a sweet roll
308
00:13:29,069 --> 00:13:31,332
and shortly afterwards
309
00:13:31,375 --> 00:13:34,988
when we were going up the
winding and dusty
310
00:13:35,031 --> 00:13:37,294
and hot mountainside she
311
00:13:37,338 --> 00:13:39,644
preceded to urrp
everything up and
312
00:13:39,688 --> 00:13:41,037
of course Marge had
just put her
313
00:13:41,081 --> 00:13:43,300
in fresh clothes so she
would be pretty for the
314
00:13:43,344 --> 00:13:45,259
arrival, she arrived
in the old
315
00:13:45,302 --> 00:13:46,390
Indian blanket which we
still carry around
316
00:13:46,434 --> 00:13:48,175
in the back of the car.
317
00:13:54,703 --> 00:13:56,096
The announcement
has been made in
318
00:13:56,139 --> 00:13:57,619
Athens tonight that
the Greek armies
319
00:13:57,662 --> 00:13:59,882
in Albania have begun
a general advance along
320
00:13:59,926 --> 00:14:01,188
the middle northern
front the
321
00:14:01,231 --> 00:14:03,190
second big Italian
counterattack has been
322
00:14:03,233 --> 00:14:04,495
thrown back and
the fascists
323
00:14:04,539 --> 00:14:07,020
Athens says have again
suffered heavy loses
324
00:14:07,063 --> 00:14:09,065
and that's all
for tonight, listen to
325
00:14:09,109 --> 00:14:11,067
our regular news
broadcasts and keep
326
00:14:11,111 --> 00:14:13,765
abreast of history
in the making.
327
00:14:13,809 --> 00:14:16,464
I on the next
day. After we arrived,
328
00:14:16,507 --> 00:14:19,815
went over with
Marshall and Perce
329
00:14:19,859 --> 00:14:23,123
and was duly sworn in
given a badge and
330
00:14:23,166 --> 00:14:25,560
taken in to read LA1
331
00:14:25,603 --> 00:14:28,302
which was the primer,
told me for the first time
332
00:14:28,345 --> 00:14:29,781
what was really suppose
333
00:14:29,825 --> 00:14:30,739
to be going on.
334
00:14:33,873 --> 00:14:36,484
Groves wanted it
to be isolated not only
335
00:14:36,527 --> 00:14:38,921
for safety but also
for security he
336
00:14:38,965 --> 00:14:43,317
was kind of obsessed with
security and Oppenheimer
337
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:44,796
wanted a place where
338
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,843
people could be free
to talk to each other,
339
00:14:47,887 --> 00:14:51,238
The whole system of the
Manhattan Project was
340
00:14:51,281 --> 00:14:53,893
built around no one
knowing more than they
341
00:14:53,936 --> 00:14:56,939
needed to know, to do
the specific part of the
342
00:14:56,983 --> 00:14:58,549
work they were engaged
343
00:14:58,593 --> 00:15:01,074
in Oppenheimer understood
that science does work
344
00:15:01,117 --> 00:15:02,597
that way it works
345
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,165
by people talking to each
other. He remembered that
346
00:15:05,208 --> 00:15:06,427
there was a ranch
347
00:15:06,470 --> 00:15:09,299
school so called, it
was a private school a
348
00:15:09,343 --> 00:15:12,259
prep school for
boys located on a
349
00:15:12,302 --> 00:15:17,177
mesa and that ranch school
with its cluster of
350
00:15:17,220 --> 00:15:20,354
dormitories and cottages
351
00:15:20,397 --> 00:15:23,966
for the teachers and one
big central hall could
352
00:15:24,010 --> 00:15:26,534
serve as a kind
of a starting
353
00:15:26,577 --> 00:15:29,276
point for a laboratory.
Where people could be
354
00:15:29,319 --> 00:15:31,887
all inside the
fence if you
355
00:15:31,931 --> 00:15:35,064
will barbed wire fencing
blocking them away from
356
00:15:35,108 --> 00:15:36,805
the rest of the world,
357
00:15:36,848 --> 00:15:39,373
but they can talk to
each other and as soon as
358
00:15:39,416 --> 00:15:40,896
General Groves saw the
359
00:15:40,940 --> 00:15:42,463
place he knew that was
the right place
360
00:15:42,506 --> 00:15:45,509
Oppenheimer thought
maybe 30 men
361
00:15:45,553 --> 00:15:47,381
would be all they need
they ended up with
362
00:15:47,424 --> 00:15:49,731
about 5000.
363
00:15:52,386 --> 00:15:55,302
Because Los Alamos
was isolated you didn't
364
00:15:55,345 --> 00:15:56,694
have people coming and
365
00:15:56,738 --> 00:15:59,132
going. Your social life
was really the people you
366
00:15:59,175 --> 00:16:01,525
work with or
your neighbors
367
00:16:01,569 --> 00:16:03,527
there was some very
large functions that were
368
00:16:03,571 --> 00:16:05,268
carried out at
Fuller Lodge,
369
00:16:05,312 --> 00:16:08,141
and so you dressed up,
you danced, you had music
370
00:16:08,184 --> 00:16:09,577
you drank, you had
371
00:16:09,620 --> 00:16:12,014
a good time and they were
stress relievers for the
372
00:16:12,058 --> 00:16:13,189
laboratory as well,
373
00:16:13,233 --> 00:16:14,930
because the men in
particular and a few
374
00:16:14,974 --> 00:16:16,888
women were working long
375
00:16:16,932 --> 00:16:20,109
shifts, long weeks and
these parties when they
376
00:16:20,153 --> 00:16:21,676
came along were
a great opportunity
377
00:16:21,719 --> 00:16:24,635
to relieve stress and
to really laugh and have
378
00:16:24,679 --> 00:16:27,638
a good time, if only
for a few hours.
379
00:16:32,904 --> 00:16:35,516
Parties at the lab
during the war were very
380
00:16:35,559 --> 00:16:38,910
segregated, Mom
and dad certainly
381
00:16:38,954 --> 00:16:40,825
partied with the
Oppenheimer's and with the
382
00:16:40,869 --> 00:16:42,784
Jetties and with the
Holloways and all
383
00:16:42,827 --> 00:16:45,569
the people they knew
during the war, it was
384
00:16:45,613 --> 00:16:47,658
always fun I can
tell you that.
385
00:16:52,924 --> 00:16:54,709
You didn't talk
to the people who came to
386
00:16:54,752 --> 00:16:56,972
the parties about
what they did because
387
00:16:57,016 --> 00:16:58,843
you just didn't do that
so you had to have some
388
00:16:58,887 --> 00:17:01,716
other way of
having a conversation
389
00:17:01,759 --> 00:17:03,718
with them which was
certainly more about
390
00:17:03,761 --> 00:17:06,460
family and hobbies and
what did you
391
00:17:06,503 --> 00:17:08,505
read lately, rather than
what do you do for
392
00:17:08,549 --> 00:17:11,291
a living? You didn't ask
that question.
393
00:17:18,950 --> 00:17:20,909
I do remember my
parents stories of the
394
00:17:20,952 --> 00:17:23,259
gatherings at the
lodge and this was
395
00:17:23,303 --> 00:17:25,827
usually the place where
the Saturday night
396
00:17:25,870 --> 00:17:28,395
parties happened.
397
00:17:31,485 --> 00:17:33,269
There were skits
and my dad was a
398
00:17:33,313 --> 00:17:34,749
rascal about
that he was
399
00:17:34,792 --> 00:17:37,099
quite good about writing
up skits that were
400
00:17:37,143 --> 00:17:39,710
good parodies.
401
00:17:41,538 --> 00:17:43,888
We played charades
a lot in the family
402
00:17:43,932 --> 00:17:45,629
and he would get a
absolutely goofy,
403
00:17:45,673 --> 00:17:49,242
and it was so in contrast
to the professional
404
00:17:49,285 --> 00:17:51,113
man of the lab
405
00:17:51,157 --> 00:17:53,942
I totally enjoyed him on
that part of it, he and
406
00:17:53,985 --> 00:17:56,292
mom both got the giggles
407
00:17:56,336 --> 00:17:58,425
and had a great time and
they had some
408
00:17:58,468 --> 00:17:59,730
very good memories
409
00:17:59,774 --> 00:18:02,429
I know of parties.
The women in particular
410
00:18:02,472 --> 00:18:04,344
had a very strong
411
00:18:04,387 --> 00:18:06,781
interrelationship
and bonding.
412
00:18:06,824 --> 00:18:09,044
Your mom and dad weren't
there when
413
00:18:09,088 --> 00:18:10,654
children were born
414
00:18:10,698 --> 00:18:11,960
because Los Alamos is
closed and they weren't
415
00:18:12,003 --> 00:18:13,266
allowed to come in.
416
00:18:13,309 --> 00:18:15,442
So you did develop very
strong relationships
417
00:18:15,485 --> 00:18:17,008
with your neighbors
418
00:18:17,052 --> 00:18:18,619
and those carried over
I know my mom had
419
00:18:18,662 --> 00:18:21,578
lifelong friends
after that
420
00:18:21,622 --> 00:18:23,885
I kind have duality
as far as my recollections
421
00:18:23,928 --> 00:18:26,757
of her her main
position and the way
422
00:18:26,801 --> 00:18:28,281
that she needed to be,
specially early on, she
423
00:18:28,324 --> 00:18:32,633
was Miss Dr RE Schreiber,
so she in a
424
00:18:32,676 --> 00:18:35,897
lot of ways was the
social coordinator and
425
00:18:35,940 --> 00:18:38,639
social aspect of my
grandfather and would
426
00:18:38,682 --> 00:18:41,555
also keep Paula and Sara
in-line Theres very much
427
00:18:41,598 --> 00:18:44,123
the attitude, we
cannot do this because
428
00:18:44,166 --> 00:18:46,473
your father is who he
so especially as he
429
00:18:46,516 --> 00:18:49,040
started working his way
up as head of the
430
00:18:49,084 --> 00:18:53,784
W Division, it was you
need to act befitting
431
00:18:53,828 --> 00:18:56,961
the children of
an Associate Director.
432
00:18:57,005 --> 00:18:58,963
We got a television
soon as they were
433
00:18:59,007 --> 00:19:01,836
available in black
and white, as children
434
00:19:01,879 --> 00:19:04,317
we werent allowed to turn
on the TV and watch it
435
00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:06,928
by ourselves,
it was evening
436
00:19:06,971 --> 00:19:10,497
and it was after dinner
when it was on my
437
00:19:10,540 --> 00:19:12,673
neighbors on the
other hand we could
438
00:19:12,716 --> 00:19:14,631
go over and watch Roy
Rogers and Gene Autry
439
00:19:14,675 --> 00:19:17,808
shows on their
television set.
440
00:19:20,202 --> 00:19:22,857
In the house,
lots of reading, there
441
00:19:22,900 --> 00:19:24,946
was always reading,
Dad would usually get
442
00:19:24,989 --> 00:19:27,340
us up on Sunday morning
with some symphony on his
443
00:19:27,383 --> 00:19:29,080
stereo system that he
444
00:19:29,124 --> 00:19:30,908
had cranked up so we
knew we werent going to
445
00:19:30,952 --> 00:19:33,955
stay in bed any
longer, so culture
446
00:19:33,998 --> 00:19:37,045
was part of the
environment always.
447
00:19:41,658 --> 00:19:43,704
My Grandma
absolutely loved that
448
00:19:43,747 --> 00:19:45,662
every now and then and
I say loved sarcastically
449
00:19:45,706 --> 00:19:48,883
there, that my grandfather
would say so and so is
450
00:19:48,926 --> 00:19:51,146
coming into town
on Friday we
451
00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:54,541
need to host em and this
was Thursday afternoon
452
00:19:54,584 --> 00:19:56,151
late, so now
my grandmother
453
00:19:56,195 --> 00:19:58,545
gets to completely
re-organize the entire
454
00:19:58,588 --> 00:20:00,634
house, figure out
how shes going
455
00:20:00,677 --> 00:20:03,027
to host these people
which sometimes could
456
00:20:03,071 --> 00:20:04,551
have been another
scientist, it could
457
00:20:04,594 --> 00:20:06,901
have been somebody
from Washington, it could
458
00:20:06,944 --> 00:20:08,337
have been
dignitary from another
459
00:20:08,381 --> 00:20:11,514
country, she got to deal
with it sometimes
460
00:20:11,558 --> 00:20:13,516
a little begrudgingly
she had a lot of good
461
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,040
friends, the other wives
would help out and pitch
462
00:20:16,084 --> 00:20:18,086
in as needed and
they all kind of had
463
00:20:18,129 --> 00:20:20,784
a tight knit club, It
was a kind of funny
464
00:20:20,828 --> 00:20:23,091
duality because my
grandmother was kind of
465
00:20:23,134 --> 00:20:26,616
little bit more the rigid
one on the exterior side
466
00:20:26,660 --> 00:20:29,140
because she very
much wanted to make
467
00:20:29,184 --> 00:20:31,273
sure they had an image
where my grandfather at
468
00:20:31,317 --> 00:20:33,884
the same time was much
469
00:20:33,928 --> 00:20:36,060
more laid back and casual
about it was you know,
470
00:20:36,104 --> 00:20:38,237
well this just happens
to be the job
471
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,282
Im doing I'm not somebody
special, it just happens to
472
00:20:40,326 --> 00:20:41,631
be where I've
gotten, heres the
473
00:20:41,675 --> 00:20:44,547
entire hierarchy of
nuclear physics as you
474
00:20:44,591 --> 00:20:46,332
know It today back
then, it was. You know
475
00:20:46,375 --> 00:20:48,682
these are just the people
who are working & they're
476
00:20:48,725 --> 00:20:49,857
working together and so
477
00:20:49,900 --> 00:20:51,902
theyre going to
blow off steam together.
478
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,801
He worked in Omega
he and Perc King with
479
00:21:20,844 --> 00:21:23,325
Enrico Fermi doing the
480
00:21:23,369 --> 00:21:27,329
Water Boiler Experiments
and I still dont know
481
00:21:27,373 --> 00:21:29,766
for sure what the Water
Boiler is?
482
00:21:29,810 --> 00:21:31,594
I've seen it.
483
00:21:38,384 --> 00:21:39,733
New discoveries were
being made everyday
484
00:21:39,776 --> 00:21:42,213
so on a Monday or Tuesday
485
00:21:42,257 --> 00:21:44,041
they would be learning
about it because the
486
00:21:44,085 --> 00:21:45,347
theoreticians
finally figured
487
00:21:45,391 --> 00:21:47,349
this part out and it
was, this is the way we
488
00:21:47,393 --> 00:21:49,699
think it is, lets
go prove it.
489
00:21:49,743 --> 00:21:52,006
It's amazing
that the five of us
490
00:21:52,049 --> 00:21:54,225
didn't seem to think it
particularly odd that
491
00:21:54,269 --> 00:21:56,489
we were being asked to
build something we just
492
00:21:56,532 --> 00:21:58,752
heard of a few days before
493
00:21:58,795 --> 00:22:01,015
So when my Grandpa
first got to Los Alamos one
494
00:22:01,058 --> 00:22:02,451
of the first
projects he was
495
00:22:02,495 --> 00:22:04,932
on was the Water Boiler
Project, code named to not
496
00:22:04,975 --> 00:22:06,237
give away what it really
497
00:22:06,281 --> 00:22:08,414
was but it did have
meaning to it it became
498
00:22:08,457 --> 00:22:09,850
one of the first aqueous
499
00:22:09,893 --> 00:22:12,243
homogeneous reactions
using Uranium.
500
00:22:12,287 --> 00:22:14,507
What we did.
Was to keep adding
501
00:22:14,550 --> 00:22:17,858
Uranium to the
solution as it became
502
00:22:17,901 --> 00:22:20,513
available, so we had the
world's supply of
503
00:22:20,556 --> 00:22:24,212
separated U235
down in Omega, and this
504
00:22:24,255 --> 00:22:26,606
led to certain
complications because it
505
00:22:26,649 --> 00:22:29,739
was a heavily guarded site
you went out
506
00:22:29,783 --> 00:22:31,872
to the woods around
there at your own risk
507
00:22:31,915 --> 00:22:33,352
because there were
MPs stationed
508
00:22:33,395 --> 00:22:36,529
around this fence and
there was at least
509
00:22:36,572 --> 00:22:39,401
one machine gun post.
510
00:22:39,445 --> 00:22:41,664
As it got further
and further along they
511
00:22:41,708 --> 00:22:43,274
finally got to the
point where they were
512
00:22:43,318 --> 00:22:45,233
predicting criticality.
513
00:22:45,276 --> 00:22:46,800
Guessing at
how many grams it would
514
00:22:46,843 --> 00:22:48,323
go critical, I
think we were we
515
00:22:48,367 --> 00:22:52,371
were all within 15 or 20
grams out of some 700.
516
00:22:52,414 --> 00:22:54,242
Fermi took the
controls and almost
517
00:22:54,285 --> 00:22:56,375
on the exact spot
where they predicted
518
00:22:56,418 --> 00:22:58,986
it was going to go
critical, it went critical
519
00:22:59,029 --> 00:23:00,466
I remember my Grandpa
making a
520
00:23:00,509 --> 00:23:03,120
comment on it really kind
of awe inspiring this thing
521
00:23:03,164 --> 00:23:04,383
is living and
breathing on its
522
00:23:04,426 --> 00:23:07,429
own self-sustaining
reaction. Very early on.
523
00:23:07,473 --> 00:23:09,213
Very bleeding edge.
524
00:23:09,257 --> 00:23:11,433
Well there was
always a problem of a
525
00:23:11,477 --> 00:23:14,001
few bugs here and
there we hadnt
526
00:23:14,044 --> 00:23:17,352
realized that the solution
would give off so called
527
00:23:17,396 --> 00:23:18,745
Radiolytic gas, there were
528
00:23:18,788 --> 00:23:22,183
also radioactive products
being carried off, next
529
00:23:22,226 --> 00:23:24,751
thing was to run
a copper tube
530
00:23:24,794 --> 00:23:26,970
up one of the tallest
pine trees there
531
00:23:27,014 --> 00:23:29,364
and discharge
the gas up there
532
00:23:29,408 --> 00:23:32,715
and hope that it would
dissipate, well that
533
00:23:32,759 --> 00:23:34,848
didn't seem to work, as we
534
00:23:34,891 --> 00:23:37,328
found out because we
were running the reactor
535
00:23:37,372 --> 00:23:38,939
and running around with
536
00:23:38,982 --> 00:23:40,941
radiation instruments to
see what was happening
537
00:23:40,984 --> 00:23:42,725
and the
instruments started
538
00:23:42,769 --> 00:23:45,511
going off the scale. So
Fermi and I went outside
539
00:23:45,554 --> 00:23:47,469
as we got closer
to this pipe
540
00:23:47,513 --> 00:23:50,254
that went up the tree the
hotter it got, then we
541
00:23:50,298 --> 00:23:51,778
came back in,
the instruments
542
00:23:51,821 --> 00:23:54,607
still read very high until
we put them down and
543
00:23:54,650 --> 00:23:56,696
walked away from them.
544
00:23:56,739 --> 00:23:58,611
So we found out that
we were contaminated,
545
00:23:58,654 --> 00:23:59,960
our clothes were
546
00:24:00,003 --> 00:24:02,223
contaminated. Fermi said
"well now, that isnt
547
00:24:02,266 --> 00:24:03,485
too bad that's all
548
00:24:03,529 --> 00:24:06,619
short life stuff and
it's soft, but Schreib
549
00:24:06,662 --> 00:24:07,968
you and I better go home
550
00:24:08,011 --> 00:24:09,926
and change our clothes
and take a shower",
551
00:24:09,970 --> 00:24:12,755
so we did, I just hung the
552
00:24:12,799 --> 00:24:15,410
clothes in the closet,
a couple of days later I
553
00:24:15,454 --> 00:24:16,977
got em out took em down
554
00:24:17,020 --> 00:24:18,369
and checked them
and they were alright,
555
00:24:18,413 --> 00:24:19,936
little bit more casual
556
00:24:19,980 --> 00:24:21,982
about that then we are now
557
00:24:22,025 --> 00:24:25,464
They understood
as healthy young men
558
00:24:25,507 --> 00:24:27,857
and a few women that they
559
00:24:27,901 --> 00:24:30,425
would otherwise be out
fighting on the front
560
00:24:30,469 --> 00:24:32,993
lines somewhere that they
561
00:24:33,036 --> 00:24:37,040
were being protected
from the risk of death in
562
00:24:37,084 --> 00:24:39,521
battle in order to perfect
563
00:24:39,565 --> 00:24:43,046
this new weapon of war,
If they had to cut some
564
00:24:43,090 --> 00:24:44,874
corners take a little
565
00:24:44,918 --> 00:24:47,834
more radiation than
might be best for them
566
00:24:47,877 --> 00:24:49,313
that they should go
567
00:24:49,357 --> 00:24:52,665
ahead and do so in the
interests of potentially
568
00:24:52,708 --> 00:24:54,231
shortening the war
569
00:24:54,275 --> 00:24:55,798
and saving lives.
570
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,635
Water Boiler
had two purposes. Uranium
571
00:25:06,679 --> 00:25:08,245
is going to be used
at least one
572
00:25:08,289 --> 00:25:11,684
atomic bomb and that bomb
was Little Boy, and so
573
00:25:11,727 --> 00:25:13,381
if youre going to
use Uranium
574
00:25:13,424 --> 00:25:15,252
or Plutonium in an atomic
bomb you need to know
575
00:25:15,296 --> 00:25:17,211
what is the critical
state is? That
576
00:25:17,254 --> 00:25:19,039
is, how much material
you can amass before it
577
00:25:19,082 --> 00:25:21,215
blows itself apart, and
578
00:25:21,258 --> 00:25:23,870
so the purpose of the
Water Boiler reactors of
579
00:25:23,913 --> 00:25:25,349
which there were three
580
00:25:25,393 --> 00:25:28,222
variations was to find
out the critical mass of
581
00:25:28,265 --> 00:25:31,051
Uranium how much could
be put together.
582
00:25:31,094 --> 00:25:33,401
About June,
the decision was made
583
00:25:33,444 --> 00:25:36,883
that the Water Boiler
should be rebuilt
584
00:25:36,926 --> 00:25:40,147
the first one could
run possibly up to 100
585
00:25:40,190 --> 00:25:41,888
watts if everybody
stayed behind
586
00:25:41,931 --> 00:25:44,978
the wall because we had
no shielding, and about
587
00:25:45,021 --> 00:25:46,980
the same time Marshall and
588
00:25:47,023 --> 00:25:50,070
Charlie and Don Kerst
were reassigned to other
589
00:25:50,113 --> 00:25:52,072
jobs and it was left
590
00:25:52,115 --> 00:25:54,074
up to Perce King and
myself Perce was the
591
00:25:54,117 --> 00:25:57,599
group leader and
I was his deputy we
592
00:25:57,643 --> 00:26:02,430
were to then build this
HYPO high-powered reactor
593
00:26:02,473 --> 00:26:05,259
along with designing
the shielding
594
00:26:05,302 --> 00:26:08,392
and supervising all
of this building
595
00:26:08,436 --> 00:26:10,438
primarily involving
being down there
596
00:26:10,481 --> 00:26:13,963
everyday with old
clothes on and I learned
597
00:26:14,007 --> 00:26:16,575
how to run an
acetylene torch and burn
598
00:26:16,618 --> 00:26:19,752
out pieces of lead brick
to fit around control
599
00:26:19,795 --> 00:26:22,363
rods and that
sort of thing.
600
00:26:22,406 --> 00:26:24,931
Enrico Fermi was
a very important figure
601
00:26:24,974 --> 00:26:27,107
in physics I think the
main reason was
602
00:26:27,150 --> 00:26:31,111
because he was equally
adept as a theoretician
603
00:26:31,154 --> 00:26:33,243
and an experimentalist
604
00:26:33,287 --> 00:26:37,204
he was competent with
the theory of nuclear
605
00:26:37,247 --> 00:26:39,249
scattering and
nuclear reactions
606
00:26:39,293 --> 00:26:43,123
and did a lot to develop
the ideas behind how
607
00:26:43,166 --> 00:26:45,560
we understand the
nucleus and
608
00:26:45,604 --> 00:26:49,216
he was also phenomenal
as an experimentalist.
609
00:26:49,259 --> 00:26:50,609
Fermi would
come down in the
610
00:26:50,652 --> 00:26:54,047
afternoons he was busy
mornings with the more
611
00:26:54,090 --> 00:26:57,006
serious affairs of bomb
design, but then the
612
00:26:57,050 --> 00:27:00,009
HYPO was his play thing
so he would come down
613
00:27:00,053 --> 00:27:02,446
after lunch, call us
in all around and say
614
00:27:02,490 --> 00:27:04,797
"what do we do today?"
615
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,189
And then he would
616
00:27:06,233 --> 00:27:07,582
answer his own question
because he knew exactly
617
00:27:07,626 --> 00:27:09,671
what he wanted to do,
but then we
618
00:27:09,715 --> 00:27:12,065
would all go out and
work in the shop if there
619
00:27:12,108 --> 00:27:14,284
was something to be
built and then we would
620
00:27:14,328 --> 00:27:17,331
jointly operate the
experiment It was a very
621
00:27:17,374 --> 00:27:19,899
meaningful learning
process for me
622
00:27:19,942 --> 00:27:22,989
because he had almost
phenomenal intuition for
623
00:27:23,032 --> 00:27:25,513
what things ought
to be. If the answers
624
00:27:25,556 --> 00:27:27,254
didnt come up the way
he thought they should be
625
00:27:27,297 --> 00:27:29,169
he would patiently
go back and
626
00:27:29,212 --> 00:27:31,519
repeat the experiment
and he was usually
627
00:27:31,562 --> 00:27:32,955
right It was very
628
00:27:32,999 --> 00:27:37,220
interesting to work
with him.
629
00:27:37,264 --> 00:27:39,440
There was a
terrible and almost
630
00:27:39,483 --> 00:27:44,053
devastating discovery made
about Plutonium.
631
00:27:44,097 --> 00:27:45,838
Originally the
laboratory was going to
632
00:27:45,881 --> 00:27:47,578
build one type of an
atomic bomb what
633
00:27:47,622 --> 00:27:50,016
we know as Little Boy
and it was going to shoot
634
00:27:50,059 --> 00:27:51,582
one piece of Uranium
at a second
635
00:27:51,626 --> 00:27:53,236
piece or was going to
shoot one piece of
636
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,586
Plutonium at a second
piece of Plutonium
637
00:27:55,630 --> 00:27:59,808
In the spring
of 1944 all the Plutonium
638
00:27:59,852 --> 00:28:01,331
that had been used
in measurements
639
00:28:01,375 --> 00:28:04,421
in Los Alamos up to that
time had come from an
640
00:28:04,465 --> 00:28:07,207
linear accelerator,
It was very
641
00:28:07,250 --> 00:28:10,210
different from the
production Plutonium that
642
00:28:10,253 --> 00:28:13,387
began flowing from
Hanford Washington
643
00:28:13,430 --> 00:28:16,085
where Plutonium in large
amounts comparatively
644
00:28:16,129 --> 00:28:18,131
speaking meaning grams
645
00:28:18,174 --> 00:28:21,221
rather than micrograms
was bombarded heavily
646
00:28:21,264 --> 00:28:23,963
inside of a reactor
with neutrons
647
00:28:24,006 --> 00:28:26,182
when that happens
you not only make the
648
00:28:26,226 --> 00:28:28,489
kind of Plutonium
they wanted which
649
00:28:28,532 --> 00:28:33,407
was PU-239, but also
PU-240, another isotope
650
00:28:33,450 --> 00:28:36,889
241, yet another
isotope 242
651
00:28:36,932 --> 00:28:40,501
yet another isotope
were so intensely
652
00:28:40,544 --> 00:28:44,026
fissionable that they
tended to pre-detonate
653
00:28:44,070 --> 00:28:46,768
the gun-bomb that was
designed to handle the
654
00:28:46,812 --> 00:28:49,075
Plutonium would
have fired
655
00:28:49,118 --> 00:28:51,904
one piece up the barrel
of the cannon but it
656
00:28:51,947 --> 00:28:54,080
would have actually
melted down
657
00:28:54,123 --> 00:28:57,257
this was a disaster,
Los Alamos was thinking
658
00:28:57,300 --> 00:28:58,780
they would only
have one bomb
659
00:28:58,824 --> 00:29:01,565
by the end of the war
and that had not been
660
00:29:01,609 --> 00:29:04,568
what their intention
had been they
661
00:29:04,612 --> 00:29:09,008
spent the summer of
1944, everybody in the
662
00:29:09,051 --> 00:29:11,750
lab who was working
on the Plutonium
663
00:29:11,793 --> 00:29:14,970
bomb was busy trying
to think of alternatives,
664
00:29:15,014 --> 00:29:17,451
and what they came up
with an idea for
665
00:29:17,494 --> 00:29:20,193
a whole new way of
detonating fissionable
666
00:29:20,236 --> 00:29:23,587
materials that they
called implosion. It
667
00:29:23,631 --> 00:29:27,287
Involved having a sphere
of the Plutonium at the
668
00:29:27,330 --> 00:29:31,595
center of a large
spherical weapon
669
00:29:31,639 --> 00:29:35,425
surrounded by some
Uranium tamper to hold
670
00:29:35,469 --> 00:29:37,384
it together a little
longer and then
671
00:29:37,427 --> 00:29:39,821
around that would
be big blocks of
672
00:29:39,865 --> 00:29:41,127
high-explosive.
673
00:29:41,170 --> 00:29:43,172
To use high-
explosives in such a
674
00:29:43,216 --> 00:29:44,608
precision manner
because you would
675
00:29:44,652 --> 00:29:46,045
have to crush this
ball of Plutonium
676
00:29:46,088 --> 00:29:48,482
symmetrically was
a very iffy thing
677
00:29:48,525 --> 00:29:50,484
high-explosives have
been used a little bit
678
00:29:50,527 --> 00:29:52,051
to sculpt Mount
Rushmore but
679
00:29:52,094 --> 00:29:53,704
that was about the
extent of the knowledge
680
00:29:53,748 --> 00:29:55,489
of using high-explosives,
681
00:29:55,532 --> 00:29:57,447
These separate
blocks would bring the
682
00:29:57,491 --> 00:30:00,668
converging shock
wave down to fit a
683
00:30:00,711 --> 00:30:04,150
little ball of Plutonium
in the middle and
684
00:30:04,193 --> 00:30:07,457
actually squeeze
it to twice its previous
685
00:30:07,501 --> 00:30:11,331
density, making it
supercritical and setting
686
00:30:11,374 --> 00:30:12,854
off a chain
reaction in the
687
00:30:12,898 --> 00:30:16,162
Plutonium so fast, that
it didnt have time to
688
00:30:16,205 --> 00:30:20,166
pre-detonate so everything
689
00:30:20,209 --> 00:30:23,865
in the lab, the Uranium
bomb was basically done,
690
00:30:23,909 --> 00:30:25,649
everybody in the
lab turned to
691
00:30:25,693 --> 00:30:28,870
dealing with this new
problem of inventing
692
00:30:28,914 --> 00:30:30,219
this new way of detonating
693
00:30:30,263 --> 00:30:31,612
nuclear weapons.
694
00:30:31,655 --> 00:30:33,962
Trinity first and
foremost was simply going
695
00:30:34,006 --> 00:30:35,964
to see if high-
explosives could be
696
00:30:36,008 --> 00:30:37,966
used to crush a
ball of Plutonium.
697
00:30:49,935 --> 00:30:53,025
By February '45
the design for Fat Man
698
00:30:53,068 --> 00:30:54,722
was pretty much
complete, but there
699
00:30:54,765 --> 00:30:58,073
was still a lot of anxiety
about not only would
700
00:30:58,117 --> 00:30:59,596
it work but how well
would it work
701
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,034
and so there was a search
for one across the country
702
00:31:02,077 --> 00:31:03,731
for a site to
detonate what
703
00:31:03,774 --> 00:31:06,777
could be a very large bomb
and it was decided to go
704
00:31:06,821 --> 00:31:08,083
to the Jornada Del Muerto
705
00:31:08,127 --> 00:31:09,476
in southern New Mexico.
706
00:31:09,519 --> 00:31:13,741
In March of
1945, the plans for the
707
00:31:13,784 --> 00:31:17,179
bomb test at Trinity
and the overseas operation
708
00:31:17,223 --> 00:31:20,269
had been firmed up and
Marshall asked me if I
709
00:31:20,313 --> 00:31:22,489
would join him in
working under
710
00:31:22,532 --> 00:31:26,319
Bob Bacher for
the field tests.
711
00:31:26,362 --> 00:31:28,277
If youre going
to invent an entirely
712
00:31:28,321 --> 00:31:30,453
new way to detonate
a weapon especially
713
00:31:30,497 --> 00:31:33,108
when its complicated
as pieces of high-
714
00:31:33,152 --> 00:31:35,371
explosive that are
shaping the charge
715
00:31:35,415 --> 00:31:38,026
in an entirely different
direction and so forth,
716
00:31:38,070 --> 00:31:40,420
youre probably
going to have to
717
00:31:40,463 --> 00:31:42,596
test this system and of
course it was tested in
718
00:31:42,639 --> 00:31:45,207
various ways
without a nuclear
719
00:31:45,251 --> 00:31:48,732
core, but ultimately the
only test that was going
720
00:31:48,776 --> 00:31:52,606
to satisfy everyone
was a test at full-yield.
721
00:31:52,649 --> 00:31:55,652
We'll the
job was to get all the
722
00:31:55,696 --> 00:31:58,612
procedures and the
instrumentation, the
723
00:31:58,655 --> 00:31:59,918
tools and so
724
00:31:59,961 --> 00:32:02,790
on worked out for the
Alamogordo test the
725
00:32:02,833 --> 00:32:07,621
Trinity test and to set
up identical kits to ship
726
00:32:07,664 --> 00:32:09,797
overseas they had to
go out by ship to
727
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,627
the Marianas Islands
Tinian and there
728
00:32:13,670 --> 00:32:16,630
was a very tight time
scale for that so we had
729
00:32:16,673 --> 00:32:19,285
top priority all over
the place and my
730
00:32:19,328 --> 00:32:22,375
djob in particular was to
assemble these kits and
731
00:32:22,418 --> 00:32:23,680
check out the
tools and then
732
00:32:23,724 --> 00:32:26,118
we went on with the
preparations for
733
00:32:26,161 --> 00:32:28,033
the Trinity test.
734
00:32:28,076 --> 00:32:30,383
No one was quite
sure how much explosion
735
00:32:30,426 --> 00:32:32,776
you get out of this
device and there was
736
00:32:32,820 --> 00:32:35,605
even a betting pool that
was put together by the
737
00:32:35,649 --> 00:32:39,305
scientists ranging
from zero to blows
738
00:32:39,348 --> 00:32:43,396
up the world, and
everybody took a bet
739
00:32:43,439 --> 00:32:45,528
and put in some money
740
00:32:45,572 --> 00:32:48,227
You would choose a
yield. In kilotons of what
741
00:32:48,270 --> 00:32:50,751
you thought the blast
might be and
742
00:32:50,794 --> 00:32:53,928
the winner was a man by
the name of Isidore Rabi
743
00:32:53,972 --> 00:32:55,495
II Rabi he was a
744
00:32:55,538 --> 00:32:57,323
Nobelist actually in
physics from Columbia
745
00:32:57,366 --> 00:32:58,846
and he won not because
746
00:32:58,889 --> 00:33:01,457
he calculated anything but
he got to Trinity late
747
00:33:01,501 --> 00:33:02,850
the train was delayed
748
00:33:02,893 --> 00:33:04,939
at Lamy, and he took
the last number in the
749
00:33:04,983 --> 00:33:06,506
betting pool and
his number
750
00:33:06,549 --> 00:33:08,769
was the closest to
the actual yield.
751
00:33:08,812 --> 00:33:11,511
No one has ever
seen such a thing before
752
00:33:11,554 --> 00:33:13,687
one of the physicists
who was there
753
00:33:13,730 --> 00:33:18,213
I interviewed Philip
Morrison said I was 10
754
00:33:18,257 --> 00:33:19,910
miles away and it
was as if someone
755
00:33:19,954 --> 00:33:22,522
had opened the door on an
oven, thats how much
756
00:33:22,565 --> 00:33:24,176
heat was coming off the
757
00:33:24,219 --> 00:33:26,265
fireball even
that far away.
758
00:33:26,308 --> 00:33:29,442
Teller put on
sunscreen, sun lotion to
759
00:33:29,485 --> 00:33:31,705
protect against the
sunburn and in fact Fermi
760
00:33:31,748 --> 00:33:35,056
anticipating the wind
tore up small pieces of
761
00:33:35,100 --> 00:33:36,710
paper so when
the blast wave
762
00:33:36,753 --> 00:33:38,538
or the wind passed by
him he measured the
763
00:33:38,581 --> 00:33:40,975
lateral dispersion
of the paper.
764
00:33:41,019 --> 00:33:43,325
So they built a
tower about a hundred feet
765
00:33:43,369 --> 00:33:46,415
high out of steel and
they put a shot cab as
766
00:33:46,459 --> 00:33:49,810
they came to be called
a little cabin up on top
767
00:33:49,853 --> 00:33:53,379
where the bomb could
be could sit and
768
00:33:53,422 --> 00:33:55,685
all the wiring and all
the testing & everything
769
00:33:55,729 --> 00:33:58,775
else could be run off
from that tower in every
770
00:33:58,819 --> 00:34:01,865
direction, out to bunkers
that were built in
771
00:34:01,909 --> 00:34:05,695
the desert. Out farther
to an old ranch that
772
00:34:05,739 --> 00:34:08,829
was used as an assembly
site for the weapon.
773
00:34:08,872 --> 00:34:10,396
My grandfather was
actually back at the
774
00:34:10,439 --> 00:34:12,441
McDonald ranch house
which is where they
775
00:34:12,485 --> 00:34:14,748
did all the early assembly
theres a few pictures
776
00:34:14,791 --> 00:34:17,794
of him around.
777
00:34:34,594 --> 00:34:36,596
The shot was
getting ready storms are
778
00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:39,164
rolling in that night,
and theyre afraid
779
00:34:39,207 --> 00:34:40,600
of electricity
780
00:34:40,643 --> 00:34:43,559
setting off the device,
they actually left a poor
781
00:34:43,603 --> 00:34:46,084
guy up there to
monitor the entire device
782
00:34:46,127 --> 00:34:49,435
in the electrical storm,
as my grandpa put it he
783
00:34:49,478 --> 00:34:50,784
wasnt quite sure
what he was supposed
784
00:34:50,827 --> 00:34:52,568
to do because lightning
struck it he wasnt going
785
00:34:52,612 --> 00:34:54,309
to do anything,
but they wanted
786
00:34:54,353 --> 00:34:56,572
somebody up there
monitoring device anyway.
787
00:34:56,616 --> 00:34:59,749
General Groves
running around insisting
788
00:34:59,793 --> 00:35:02,535
that the weather change
he was after all a
789
00:35:02,578 --> 00:35:05,233
General in the Army and
he ordered the weather
790
00:35:05,277 --> 00:35:06,452
to change dammit the
791
00:35:06,495 --> 00:35:13,676
weather should change
and it did!
792
00:35:13,720 --> 00:35:16,505
My grandpa had my
grandma pack lunches for
793
00:35:16,549 --> 00:35:17,941
him and said OK
were going to run some
794
00:35:17,985 --> 00:35:20,770
more tests, didn't say
anything beyond that my
795
00:35:20,814 --> 00:35:22,207
grandma that point
in time also knew
796
00:35:22,250 --> 00:35:23,817
not to ask because
my grandpa wasn't
797
00:35:23,860 --> 00:35:26,733
going to say.
798
00:35:26,776 --> 00:35:29,301
Oppenheimer at
that point down to 115
799
00:35:29,344 --> 00:35:32,086
pounds, this man
of six feet
800
00:35:32,130 --> 00:35:35,481
one inches in height,
from a bout of Chickenpox
801
00:35:35,524 --> 00:35:37,918
over the last two
weeks, leaning against the
802
00:35:37,961 --> 00:35:40,486
"I must stay conscious,
803
00:35:40,529 --> 00:35:43,793
I must stay conscious",
worried that his weapon
804
00:35:43,837 --> 00:35:48,624
wouldn't work, they pushed
the button and it worked.
805
00:35:55,718 --> 00:35:58,025
At the five
minute warning we were
806
00:35:58,068 --> 00:36:00,984
supposed to lie down,
and we had to keep
807
00:36:01,028 --> 00:36:03,073
our heads covered turned
away from the blast,
808
00:36:03,117 --> 00:36:05,554
and the light of course
that was the longest
809
00:36:05,598 --> 00:36:07,817
five-minutes I ever went
through in my life, we
810
00:36:07,861 --> 00:36:10,994
could see some eleven
miles away where the
811
00:36:11,038 --> 00:36:13,649
tower was the light that
was on top of the tower
812
00:36:13,693 --> 00:36:16,261
just a little tiny
candle flame essentially,
813
00:36:16,304 --> 00:36:17,914
and then
814
00:36:17,958 --> 00:36:21,614
all of a sudden the whole
world was lighted up very
815
00:36:21,657 --> 00:36:24,834
brilliantly, I had some
welders goggles which
816
00:36:24,878 --> 00:36:28,142
I put on and turned to
look at the blast and
817
00:36:28,186 --> 00:36:31,841
the fireball had faded
enough that the welders
818
00:36:31,885 --> 00:36:34,670
goggles we're too faint,
so I snatched them off
819
00:36:34,714 --> 00:36:38,239
and then it was too
bright for my eyes
820
00:36:38,283 --> 00:36:39,588
didn't blind me
821
00:36:39,632 --> 00:36:43,026
accept momentarily as
a bright light would, and
822
00:36:43,070 --> 00:36:45,768
then after long time
why here came the
823
00:36:45,812 --> 00:36:49,816
sound of the bomb itself,
which was more concussion
824
00:36:49,859 --> 00:36:52,471
than any noise
and wasn't half
825
00:36:52,514 --> 00:36:55,517
as impressive as the
light, but we certainly
826
00:36:55,561 --> 00:36:57,737
knew something
had happened.
827
00:36:57,780 --> 00:36:58,955
A lot of people
in town actually knew
828
00:36:58,999 --> 00:37:01,131
about it, not necessarily
exactly what was
829
00:37:01,175 --> 00:37:02,481
going to happen
830
00:37:02,524 --> 00:37:04,831
some of the scientists
and told her wives okay
831
00:37:04,874 --> 00:37:07,616
on this such a date,
this time roughly, you
832
00:37:07,660 --> 00:37:09,052
might want to go over
here and look this
833
00:37:09,096 --> 00:37:12,708
direction, we'll that's
wasn't my grandpa's style.
834
00:37:12,752 --> 00:37:14,667
And we came
home later that day of
835
00:37:14,710 --> 00:37:18,061
course we were forbidden
to tell anyone what had
836
00:37:18,105 --> 00:37:20,238
happened except by the
time we got back here,
837
00:37:20,281 --> 00:37:23,023
everybody at the site
practically including
838
00:37:23,066 --> 00:37:25,721
the wives knew
something had happened.
839
00:37:25,765 --> 00:37:28,158
The night that the
test went off my grandma
840
00:37:28,202 --> 00:37:30,291
was sleeping soundly
because she wasn't
841
00:37:30,335 --> 00:37:32,380
told to go out, and all
her neighbors, everyone
842
00:37:32,424 --> 00:37:33,860
else up on a
mountain looking
843
00:37:33,903 --> 00:37:36,210
the correct direction
and the next day through
844
00:37:36,254 --> 00:37:37,690
the wives clubs & whatnot
845
00:37:37,733 --> 00:37:39,474
hear chatter of did you
see this did you see that?
846
00:37:39,518 --> 00:37:42,085
And my grandma was
a little at a time,
847
00:37:42,129 --> 00:37:45,306
perturbed to my grandpa of
"why didn't you tell me?"
848
00:37:45,350 --> 00:37:46,742
If it was secret
he kept it
849
00:37:46,786 --> 00:37:49,092
secret and thats the way
it was, don't
850
00:37:49,136 --> 00:37:51,443
bother asking.
851
00:37:51,486 --> 00:37:52,966
Trinity while it
was a big deal and a
852
00:37:53,009 --> 00:37:56,056
consumed a lot of
time and energy, it came
853
00:37:56,099 --> 00:37:58,580
and went quickly, and the
people at the laboratory
854
00:37:58,624 --> 00:37:59,929
had to move on because the
855
00:37:59,973 --> 00:38:03,019
bigger mission was
to build the combat bombs.
856
00:38:12,986 --> 00:38:14,944
Admiral
Nimitz recently pointed
857
00:38:14,988 --> 00:38:17,512
out at Okinawa that the
Pacific forces welcome
858
00:38:17,556 --> 00:38:20,210
the help of United
States airmen employed
859
00:38:20,254 --> 00:38:22,996
in Europe, they know
it will require months to
860
00:38:23,039 --> 00:38:26,129
shift Yank power
across the Atlantic.
861
00:38:30,351 --> 00:38:33,136
The materials for
the Uranium core for the
862
00:38:33,180 --> 00:38:36,052
Little Boy bomb was
delivered by ship,
863
00:38:36,096 --> 00:38:39,186
Groves did not want to
lose these cores so he
864
00:38:39,229 --> 00:38:42,232
preferred to deliver
them by ship thinking
865
00:38:42,276 --> 00:38:44,974
that a plane would be
a riskier way to carry
866
00:38:45,018 --> 00:38:49,196
these billion dollar
pieces of metal to this
867
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:50,806
little island where they
were going to be
868
00:38:50,850 --> 00:38:54,375
assembled into the
weapon. But there really
869
00:38:54,419 --> 00:38:58,118
wasn't time with the Pu
core, it was delivered
870
00:38:58,161 --> 00:39:03,950
just a couple days before
it was actually used and
871
00:39:03,993 --> 00:39:07,997
therefore had to be
delivered by plane and
872
00:39:08,041 --> 00:39:09,999
Schreib was the one
who carried the thing out.
873
00:39:18,791 --> 00:39:22,011
I was picked
for that job by a flip
874
00:39:22,055 --> 00:39:24,100
of a quarter,
Boyce McDaniel and
875
00:39:24,144 --> 00:39:26,886
I we're both logical
candidates for the
876
00:39:26,929 --> 00:39:28,931
position Marshall
wasn't willing to make
877
00:39:28,975 --> 00:39:30,933
the choice and either was
Bob Bacher, so we finally
878
00:39:30,977 --> 00:39:33,849
flipped a coin and I won.
879
00:39:33,893 --> 00:39:35,982
Tinian is one
of the islands in the
880
00:39:36,025 --> 00:39:38,637
Marianas group in
the central Pacific
881
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,640
very hot, very humid,
lots of jungle, it was
882
00:39:41,683 --> 00:39:43,076
a big air base
being used by
883
00:39:43,119 --> 00:39:45,861
the 20th Air Force
to bomb Japan.
884
00:39:45,905 --> 00:39:48,951
Ordered enough
GI clothes to wear out
885
00:39:48,995 --> 00:39:51,214
there because we
went out as pseudo
886
00:39:51,258 --> 00:39:55,305
officers civilians
working with the military.
887
00:39:55,349 --> 00:39:57,264
Combat troops
are very quick to point
888
00:39:57,307 --> 00:40:00,049
out people who who
don't fight and so
889
00:40:00,093 --> 00:40:02,356
for people like Schreiber
and others who were
890
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:03,662
there they were
seen as a
891
00:40:03,705 --> 00:40:05,446
special class of citizen
they were getting some
892
00:40:05,490 --> 00:40:07,796
special treatment
but worst of all
893
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:09,624
they weren't really
fighting, and so people
894
00:40:09,668 --> 00:40:10,799
really did
wonder what their
895
00:40:10,843 --> 00:40:13,062
value was to
the war effort.
896
00:40:13,106 --> 00:40:15,717
Some security
officers came by the house
897
00:40:15,761 --> 00:40:18,894
with a GI car
waited while I told
898
00:40:18,938 --> 00:40:24,465
Marge goodbye and off
we went driving to
899
00:40:24,509 --> 00:40:27,903
Albuquerque, the
convoy included
900
00:40:27,947 --> 00:40:32,081
the core for the bomb,
and I was the quote
901
00:40:32,125 --> 00:40:35,607
technical courier
for the bomb we
902
00:40:35,650 --> 00:40:40,481
drove to Albuquerque
and got on the train the
903
00:40:40,525 --> 00:40:43,310
three of us together
with the
904
00:40:43,353 --> 00:40:47,140
little case that carried
the core got out to
905
00:40:47,183 --> 00:40:49,664
Oakland and met
with the automobiles
906
00:40:49,708 --> 00:40:56,584
and taken to the base
where I was told to go
907
00:40:56,628 --> 00:40:59,413
into the ditching
briefing where
908
00:40:59,457 --> 00:41:01,720
you were told what you
were supposed to do if
909
00:41:01,763 --> 00:41:04,374
the plane had to
go down and I
910
00:41:04,418 --> 00:41:06,115
was right in the middle
of it when somebody tapped
911
00:41:06,159 --> 00:41:07,595
me on the shoulder
and said come on we're
912
00:41:07,639 --> 00:41:11,338
going, so we got on
the airplane and
913
00:41:11,381 --> 00:41:12,687
we started out.
914
00:41:12,731 --> 00:41:14,602
He stuck the
core in the back of plane
915
00:41:14,646 --> 00:41:16,212
and went up front
with the crew which
916
00:41:16,256 --> 00:41:20,173
evidently made the crew
rather nervous asked him
917
00:41:20,216 --> 00:41:22,305
to go back and
strap it down
918
00:41:22,349 --> 00:41:24,960
back there in case it
rolled around, it
919
00:41:25,004 --> 00:41:26,962
would not have
done anything it was
920
00:41:27,006 --> 00:41:29,965
subcritical,
but but he did.
921
00:41:30,009 --> 00:41:33,534
I was met by
the usual crew of MP's we
922
00:41:33,578 --> 00:41:35,362
had our Quonset
which was air
923
00:41:35,405 --> 00:41:37,582
conditioned for our
workshop and this was
924
00:41:37,625 --> 00:41:39,322
two or three
miles away from
925
00:41:39,366 --> 00:41:42,630
camp toward the airfield
and that was in another
926
00:41:42,674 --> 00:41:44,371
heavily guarded compound,
927
00:41:44,414 --> 00:41:47,243
we'll it was nice to have
air conditioning in fact
928
00:41:47,287 --> 00:41:49,028
we became quite
popular with the
929
00:41:49,071 --> 00:41:51,683
rest of the crew that
was out there Los Alamos
930
00:41:51,726 --> 00:41:53,989
because I think there
931
00:41:54,033 --> 00:41:56,818
were only two such places
and the other one had
932
00:41:56,862 --> 00:41:59,342
the high-explosives
in it so people
933
00:41:59,386 --> 00:42:01,344
weren't quite as happy
sitting there as they
934
00:42:01,388 --> 00:42:04,304
were in our cozy quarters.
We'll the first
935
00:42:04,347 --> 00:42:07,916
operation was Little
Boy the gun type assembly
936
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:09,352
and I had nothing
to do with
937
00:42:09,396 --> 00:42:12,007
that work, there was a
whole separate crew which
938
00:42:12,051 --> 00:42:14,053
took care of
putting that one
939
00:42:14,096 --> 00:42:16,882
together. The plane took
off alright and the drop
940
00:42:16,925 --> 00:42:19,928
was made on
Hiroshima, we were
941
00:42:19,972 --> 00:42:22,278
so remote from the
explosion
942
00:42:22,322 --> 00:42:23,802
that it was a little hard
to realize the tragic
943
00:42:23,845 --> 00:42:28,371
loss of life which
actually occurred, one of
944
00:42:28,415 --> 00:42:30,286
the greatest damages
was due to the
945
00:42:30,330 --> 00:42:33,507
fact that the city was
just built out of paper
946
00:42:33,551 --> 00:42:34,769
and bamboo and the intense
947
00:42:34,813 --> 00:42:37,772
heat from the bomb started
a firestorm which
948
00:42:37,816 --> 00:42:39,818
swept across the city.
949
00:42:39,861 --> 00:42:42,081
Most of the
damage from atomic bombs
950
00:42:42,124 --> 00:42:45,171
about 95+ percent
comes from
951
00:42:45,214 --> 00:42:47,782
explosive force, when
they were looking at
952
00:42:47,826 --> 00:42:49,741
where to drop
an atomic bomb and
953
00:42:49,784 --> 00:42:51,612
then how to drop an
atomic bomb one of
954
00:42:51,656 --> 00:42:53,875
the issues became
at what altitude
955
00:42:53,919 --> 00:42:58,488
and so ideally to maximize
he destructive portion
956
00:42:58,532 --> 00:42:59,838
of the atomic bomb
957
00:42:59,881 --> 00:43:02,057
you would detonate it
at some number feet above
958
00:43:02,101 --> 00:43:03,450
ground in this
case it was about
959
00:43:03,493 --> 00:43:06,192
1800 feet plus or minus
100 feet, it also helps
960
00:43:06,235 --> 00:43:08,150
to minimize the
amount of radiation
961
00:43:08,194 --> 00:43:11,066
and amount of residual
radiation that you get,
962
00:43:11,110 --> 00:43:12,851
so if you explode
something close to
963
00:43:12,894 --> 00:43:14,940
the ground, and the
explosion and entrains
964
00:43:14,983 --> 00:43:18,030
dirt, steel, concrete,
whatever, it can irradiate
965
00:43:18,073 --> 00:43:20,510
some of those materials
and make them radioactive
966
00:43:20,554 --> 00:43:21,903
and so you would have an
967
00:43:21,947 --> 00:43:24,253
environmental wasteland
if you will and so one of
968
00:43:24,297 --> 00:43:26,386
the benefits and
its a marginal
969
00:43:26,429 --> 00:43:29,781
benefit I think is that
if you detonate an a
970
00:43:29,824 --> 00:43:32,044
atomic bomb at altitude
you don't get the
971
00:43:32,087 --> 00:43:33,741
environmental damage you
would if it were detonated
972
00:43:33,785 --> 00:43:36,004
closer to the
to the ground.
973
00:43:36,048 --> 00:43:37,527
Then we waited
to see if anything would
974
00:43:37,571 --> 00:43:39,486
happen, I believe thats
when the ultimatum
975
00:43:39,529 --> 00:43:43,098
was sent out for Japan
to surrender in fact there
976
00:43:43,142 --> 00:43:44,665
had been
surrender leaflets
977
00:43:44,709 --> 00:43:48,582
dropped, while nothing did
happen and so on August
978
00:43:48,626 --> 00:43:51,411
9th Fatman was dropped and
979
00:43:51,454 --> 00:43:54,022
we had gone to work
assembling our part of
980
00:43:54,066 --> 00:43:58,113
the bomb, that is
the core and capsule
981
00:43:58,157 --> 00:44:00,463
that fitted into
the high-explosives.
982
00:44:00,507 --> 00:44:03,292
A fairly
complicated process, you
983
00:44:03,336 --> 00:44:06,469
have a little half-piece
of the Plutonium Core
984
00:44:06,513 --> 00:44:08,558
and the little initiator
985
00:44:08,602 --> 00:44:10,125
thats put very
carefully in the hole in
986
00:44:10,169 --> 00:44:12,214
the middle, and the
next piece of Plutonium
987
00:44:12,258 --> 00:44:15,391
on top, then the tamper
of Uranium which is in
988
00:44:15,435 --> 00:44:17,698
several pieces, and
you're working down
989
00:44:17,742 --> 00:44:23,573
inside this huge explosive
lens system which is about
990
00:44:23,617 --> 00:44:26,402
4 or 5 feet in diameter
991
00:44:26,446 --> 00:44:30,319
with these huge blocks of
waxy high-explosive
992
00:44:30,363 --> 00:44:33,322
around it, and you're
reaching over down into it
993
00:44:33,366 --> 00:44:37,326
hooking things together
putting pieces in,
994
00:44:37,370 --> 00:44:39,546
someone who
assembled the weapon.
995
00:44:39,589 --> 00:44:42,636
It might have been
Schreiber I don't recall
996
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:44,899
remembered that when the
997
00:44:44,943 --> 00:44:47,859
thing was supposedly
finished he noticed that
998
00:44:47,902 --> 00:44:50,165
some of the wires
were reversed
999
00:44:50,209 --> 00:44:53,778
and stayed up all night
reversing them back the
1000
00:44:53,821 --> 00:44:55,344
way they were
supposed to be
1001
00:44:55,388 --> 00:44:57,303
or the thing might not
have worked at all, and
1002
00:44:57,346 --> 00:44:59,522
it was General Groves
horror that the
1003
00:44:59,566 --> 00:45:02,351
bomb might not work, the
material would land on the
1004
00:45:02,395 --> 00:45:04,397
ground and the
Japanese would sweep
1005
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,225
it all up and use it to
make a bomb themselves,
1006
00:45:06,268 --> 00:45:10,490
not a very likely scenario
but General Groves
1007
00:45:10,533 --> 00:45:12,710
worried a lot about making
sure these things
1008
00:45:12,753 --> 00:45:14,320
actually worked
when and how
1009
00:45:14,363 --> 00:45:16,583
they were supposed to work.
1010
00:45:16,626 --> 00:45:20,543
This plane
had a target which was
1011
00:45:20,587 --> 00:45:23,372
obscured by clouds and
they picked Nagasaki as a
1012
00:45:23,416 --> 00:45:26,462
secondary target we're
a little low on gas when
1013
00:45:26,506 --> 00:45:28,203
they dropped the
bomb they made it
1014
00:45:28,247 --> 00:45:31,511
back to Iwo Jima refueled
there and then returned
1015
00:45:31,554 --> 00:45:35,733
back to Tinian
later that afternoon
1016
00:45:35,776 --> 00:45:39,214
surrender was finally
arranged and we thought
1017
00:45:39,258 --> 00:45:41,042
we thought we
would of come home,
1018
00:45:41,086 --> 00:45:43,436
generals decided that
we would have to stay
1019
00:45:43,479 --> 00:45:46,700
there until
Japan was occupied
1020
00:45:46,744 --> 00:45:49,834
so we did stay there
until first week in
1021
00:45:49,877 --> 00:45:52,227
September and we
finally given orders
1022
00:45:52,271 --> 00:45:55,796
to return home, and they
were busily making another
1023
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,103
core back here in Los
1024
00:45:58,146 --> 00:46:01,193
Alamos and it could
have delivered out there
1025
00:46:01,236 --> 00:46:02,324
if there had been any
hanky-panky
1026
00:46:02,368 --> 00:46:03,673
about a fake surrender.
1027
00:46:03,717 --> 00:46:06,633
This was not only
the blockade, but it was
1028
00:46:06,676 --> 00:46:09,244
the invasion force,
almost every single ship
1029
00:46:09,288 --> 00:46:12,334
was a landing craft
landing ship there was
1030
00:46:12,378 --> 00:46:14,597
thousands upon
thousands of
1031
00:46:14,641 --> 00:46:17,905
people that were getting
ready to invade, he knew
1032
00:46:17,949 --> 00:46:20,821
his job was to stop
this, the very
1033
00:46:20,865 --> 00:46:24,085
specific action that he's
helping out with has to
1034
00:46:24,129 --> 00:46:26,392
work, they wanted
to end the war
1035
00:46:26,435 --> 00:46:27,741
and as quickly
as they could.
1036
00:46:27,785 --> 00:46:30,265
Harold Agnew who
helped build atomic bomb,
1037
00:46:30,309 --> 00:46:31,745
flew the Hiroshima mission
1038
00:46:31,789 --> 00:46:34,052
and later became a
director here Los Alamos
1039
00:46:34,095 --> 00:46:35,575
says that the hospital
1040
00:46:35,618 --> 00:46:37,272
facilities being
built on Tinian
1041
00:46:37,316 --> 00:46:39,274
and Saipan were massive,
they were anticipating
1042
00:46:39,318 --> 00:46:42,321
casualties far beyond
what we had seen and
1043
00:46:42,364 --> 00:46:44,932
so had we invaded Japan
rather than drop the
1044
00:46:44,976 --> 00:46:46,455
atomic bombs there would
1045
00:46:46,499 --> 00:46:48,457
have been a lot of deaths
on both sides and it
1046
00:46:48,501 --> 00:46:50,503
would have been
a horrific scene
1047
00:46:50,546 --> 00:46:52,548
with no good
outcome for anybody.
1048
00:46:52,592 --> 00:46:54,333
One of the
things which I've always
1049
00:46:54,376 --> 00:46:56,465
remembered when people
ask me, "we'll you
1050
00:46:56,509 --> 00:46:58,685
know, wasn't this a
terrible thing to do and
1051
00:46:58,728 --> 00:47:01,122
don't you regret awfully
having been involved",
1052
00:47:01,166 --> 00:47:05,561
and so on, is one morning
I got up and was walking
1053
00:47:05,605 --> 00:47:07,476
around the camp
and looked out
1054
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,044
on the leeward side of
the island and all I could
1055
00:47:10,088 --> 00:47:12,438
see were landing craft
from clear out to the
1056
00:47:12,481 --> 00:47:15,223
horizon, these were
landing craft that were
1057
00:47:15,267 --> 00:47:17,356
being worked up the
coast along the Mariana
1058
00:47:17,399 --> 00:47:21,099
Islands for the invasion
of Japan, because that
1059
00:47:21,142 --> 00:47:23,753
was the plan which was
the backup in case the
1060
00:47:23,797 --> 00:47:26,931
bombs did not get
delivered, or they didn't
1061
00:47:26,974 --> 00:47:29,194
work as promised
and when you stop
1062
00:47:29,237 --> 00:47:30,673
to consider how many
hundreds of thousands of
1063
00:47:30,717 --> 00:47:32,458
troops that would
of been involved in that
1064
00:47:32,501 --> 00:47:34,416
sort of an operation,
what sort of massacre
1065
00:47:34,460 --> 00:47:36,288
there would of
been on both sides,
1066
00:47:36,331 --> 00:47:38,377
they would of had to make
an amphibious landing, and
1067
00:47:38,420 --> 00:47:39,813
I think that
there was a net
1068
00:47:39,857 --> 00:47:42,642
saving of both Japanese
and American lives by
1069
00:47:42,685 --> 00:47:44,687
dropping the bomb.
1070
00:47:51,694 --> 00:47:54,088
We're just told
that Wednesday & Thursday
1071
00:47:54,132 --> 00:47:56,264
have been declared
legal, federal holidays
1072
00:47:56,308 --> 00:47:59,180
VJ. Day, maybe you can
hear the people screaming
1073
00:47:59,224 --> 00:48:00,442
down there ladies and
1074
00:48:00,486 --> 00:48:02,009
gentlemen let's
give a listen...
1075
00:48:06,187 --> 00:48:09,364
I think they're
will always questions,
1076
00:48:09,408 --> 00:48:11,714
strong opinions about the
use of the
1077
00:48:11,758 --> 00:48:15,022
atomic bombs during
World War II,
1078
00:48:15,066 --> 00:48:18,373
by the
summer of 1945, in total
1079
00:48:18,417 --> 00:48:22,377
had claimed about 70M
lives, if you figure that
1080
00:48:22,421 --> 00:48:26,077
World War II started as
early as 1932 in China
1081
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:28,296
and certainly in
the 30's with
1082
00:48:28,340 --> 00:48:32,344
Nazi Germany by the
time 1945 the war
1083
00:48:32,387 --> 00:48:34,215
was over 10 years old
1084
00:48:34,259 --> 00:48:36,217
and in a war that
killed 70 million people
1085
00:48:36,261 --> 00:48:38,959
it was time for it to
end, and the atomic bomb
1086
00:48:39,003 --> 00:48:40,743
certainly did that.
1087
00:48:40,787 --> 00:48:42,920
The Japanese
Emperor having been
1088
00:48:42,963 --> 00:48:44,399
apprised of
what happened at
1089
00:48:44,443 --> 00:48:47,446
Hiroshima and Nagasaki,
did an absolutely
1090
00:48:47,489 --> 00:48:50,275
historically unique
thing he stepped out
1091
00:48:50,318 --> 00:48:52,364
of his role as the
spiritual leader of the
1092
00:48:52,407 --> 00:48:56,411
country into politics
he said a new and
1093
00:48:56,455 --> 00:48:59,588
most terrible weapon
of war has forced us to
1094
00:48:59,632 --> 00:49:02,765
think the unthinkable
and asked his
1095
00:49:02,809 --> 00:49:06,552
people to lay down their
arms which remarkably
1096
00:49:06,595 --> 00:49:09,685
enough they did with
very little debate.
1097
00:49:09,729 --> 00:49:13,037
All we can see is
a sea of humanity people
1098
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:14,603
in every color
costume people
1099
00:49:14,647 --> 00:49:17,345
from all the nations
of world have assembled
1100
00:49:17,389 --> 00:49:18,564
here today to celebrate
1101
00:49:18,607 --> 00:49:21,219
this truly great victory
over the Japanese.
1102
00:49:21,262 --> 00:49:23,569
The war was
over I'd returned from
1103
00:49:23,612 --> 00:49:28,661
Tinian and the place
was in a fair turmoil
1104
00:49:28,704 --> 00:49:33,492
there was another group
of senior personnel who
1105
00:49:33,535 --> 00:49:35,798
were much concerned
about the laboratory
1106
00:49:35,842 --> 00:49:39,193
and they stayed on to help
plan a strategy for
1107
00:49:39,237 --> 00:49:41,630
whatever was to
come at this time
1108
00:49:41,674 --> 00:49:46,026
Oppenheimer resigned to
return to academic
1109
00:49:46,070 --> 00:49:49,334
career and
Norris Bradbury was
1110
00:49:49,377 --> 00:49:52,293
selected to replace him.
1111
00:49:52,337 --> 00:49:54,992
Bradbury just ended
up sending out a message
1112
00:49:55,035 --> 00:49:56,732
to everyone
saying its time
1113
00:49:56,776 --> 00:49:58,430
to make the decision if
your'e going to leave
1114
00:49:58,473 --> 00:49:59,953
leave but if you're
going to stay
1115
00:49:59,997 --> 00:50:01,650
stay so we can start
actually figuring out
1116
00:50:01,694 --> 00:50:04,305
who's here what we
have to work with
1117
00:50:04,349 --> 00:50:06,264
and start going forward.
1118
00:50:06,307 --> 00:50:09,223
There was of
course, a great deal
1119
00:50:09,267 --> 00:50:11,921
of uncertainty on
the civilians who had been
1120
00:50:11,965 --> 00:50:14,881
brought in for the
duration and there were
1121
00:50:14,924 --> 00:50:17,927
about 2000 GI's all they
wanted to do was to get
1122
00:50:17,971 --> 00:50:20,669
out, not to mention
all the housewives and
1123
00:50:20,713 --> 00:50:23,020
families that didn't
know if they should pack
1124
00:50:23,063 --> 00:50:26,066
up and get ready to
move or what was to happen.
1125
00:50:26,110 --> 00:50:29,330
Bradbury develops
this philosophy that the
1126
00:50:29,374 --> 00:50:31,941
laboratory would become
a scientific laboratory
1127
00:50:31,985 --> 00:50:34,205
he changes the name from
its wartime designation
1128
00:50:34,248 --> 00:50:35,554
which is basically just
1129
00:50:35,597 --> 00:50:38,252
Los Alamos. He undertakes
programs and basic
1130
00:50:38,296 --> 00:50:40,646
science and weapons work.
He makes it a
1131
00:50:40,689 --> 00:50:42,909
meaningful place for
scientists to come and
1132
00:50:42,952 --> 00:50:45,303
practice their craft
and many and Schreib is
1133
00:50:45,346 --> 00:50:47,435
one of these that does
stay and makes a
1134
00:50:47,479 --> 00:50:49,524
major contribution,
1135
00:50:49,568 --> 00:50:51,309
The war was
over, mission
1136
00:50:51,352 --> 00:50:53,659
accomplished, what next
1137
00:50:53,702 --> 00:50:56,053
Schreib comes to
Los Alamos during the
1138
00:50:56,096 --> 00:50:58,925
war as a relatively junior
scientist but at the end
1139
00:50:58,968 --> 00:51:01,275
of the war he becomes a
senior scientist he
1140
00:51:01,319 --> 00:51:02,537
becomes one of those
people who stays who
1141
00:51:02,581 --> 00:51:05,453
takes on management
responsibilities who's
1142
00:51:05,497 --> 00:51:07,325
responsible for
providing scientific
1143
00:51:07,368 --> 00:51:09,675
leadership and he along
with Bradbury for whom
1144
00:51:09,718 --> 00:51:11,329
he develops a very
close relationship
1145
00:51:11,372 --> 00:51:13,592
over the years really do
save the laboratory
1146
00:51:13,635 --> 00:51:18,075
intellectually
after the war.
1147
00:51:20,033 --> 00:51:22,383
Good afternoon
ladies and gentlemen
1148
00:51:22,427 --> 00:51:24,081
we're speaking to you
from the site
1149
00:51:24,124 --> 00:51:25,299
of the laboratory
1150
00:51:25,343 --> 00:51:26,735
of the atomic bomb project
at Los Alamos
1151
00:51:26,779 --> 00:51:28,998
New Mexico where in
a moment we'll bring
1152
00:51:29,042 --> 00:51:32,132
you the ceremonies of the
Army-Navy E Award Colonel
1153
00:51:32,176 --> 00:51:33,394
Kenneth B Nichols
will act as
1154
00:51:33,438 --> 00:51:35,396
ceremonies
for the afternoon.
1155
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,833
Dr. Oppenheimer was
giving his speech
1156
00:51:37,877 --> 00:51:39,966
everybody was gathered
on the lawn at
1157
00:51:40,009 --> 00:51:43,926
Fuller Lodge I was in the
car with my parents
1158
00:51:43,970 --> 00:51:46,842
listening to the speech
and at some point I
1159
00:51:46,886 --> 00:51:49,845
moved from my mothers lap
to my fathers lap and
1160
00:51:49,889 --> 00:51:53,762
then I sat on the horn,
it was recorded
1161
00:51:53,806 --> 00:51:56,113
it was recorded
on the radio,
1162
00:51:56,156 --> 00:52:00,682
my mom wrote a letter
to her parents and told
1163
00:52:00,726 --> 00:52:02,554
them that I had had
achieved posterity
1164
00:52:02,597 --> 00:52:04,382
because I
in fact, had been
1165
00:52:04,425 --> 00:52:05,600
recorded and they
1166
00:52:05,644 --> 00:52:08,603
had heard the horn on the
radio broadcast.
1167
00:52:09,822 --> 00:52:12,259
My sister was
almost 3 at that
1168
00:52:12,303 --> 00:52:15,001
point I was a year old
and it was much
1169
00:52:15,044 --> 00:52:16,263
more important for
1170
00:52:16,307 --> 00:52:18,047
her to see him and of
course my mother,
1171
00:52:18,091 --> 00:52:21,312
she was just grinning
from ear-to-ear
1172
00:52:28,754 --> 00:52:32,453
My sister was my
best friend my mentor
1173
00:52:32,497 --> 00:52:34,586
she was very significant
part of my
1174
00:52:34,629 --> 00:52:36,979
life all the time,
1175
00:52:37,023 --> 00:52:39,156
we were enough different
that we didn't actually
1176
00:52:39,199 --> 00:52:42,637
compete for people or
attention at all we got
1177
00:52:42,681 --> 00:52:45,814
along quite well, she was
a very delightful person
1178
00:52:45,858 --> 00:52:49,905
to grow up with and
she took good care of me.
1179
00:52:49,949 --> 00:52:51,385
A Lot of
scientists started
1180
00:52:51,429 --> 00:52:52,604
packing up and leaving
going back to the
1181
00:52:52,647 --> 00:52:54,432
different colleges the
1182
00:52:54,475 --> 00:52:55,998
colleges needed them
to teach.
1183
00:52:56,042 --> 00:52:58,392
Dr, Lark
Harovitz called me several
1184
00:52:58,436 --> 00:53:00,742
times and urged
me to come back to
1185
00:53:00,786 --> 00:53:03,528
Purdue, Marge and I talked
about this and we just
1186
00:53:03,571 --> 00:53:04,833
decided that was
going to be a pretty
1187
00:53:04,877 --> 00:53:08,359
dull life, so we
turned him off.
1188
00:53:08,402 --> 00:53:10,970
My grandfather
already had his PhD
1189
00:53:11,013 --> 00:53:13,364
really liked the
area and decided at
1190
00:53:13,407 --> 00:53:14,800
least for a short
term to stick around.
1191
00:53:14,843 --> 00:53:17,716
I went and
talked to Bob Bacher
1192
00:53:17,759 --> 00:53:19,935
who was my division
leader and he said
1193
00:53:19,979 --> 00:53:22,503
we'll what are they
offering you and I told
1194
00:53:22,547 --> 00:53:23,809
him he says
we'll we'll match
1195
00:53:23,852 --> 00:53:26,681
that offer if you'll stay,
and I think it was
1196
00:53:26,725 --> 00:53:28,814
in that winter
when all the pipes
1197
00:53:28,857 --> 00:53:31,643
froze up, the captain in
charge of the water
1198
00:53:31,686 --> 00:53:34,428
supply threatened
to shoot himself
1199
00:53:34,472 --> 00:53:36,909
if it froze again, but it
froze again but he
1200
00:53:36,952 --> 00:53:38,954
didn't shoot himself,
then in
1201
00:53:38,998 --> 00:53:43,655
January of '46 Norris got
a letter from General
1202
00:53:43,698 --> 00:53:46,701
Groves which essentially
said hold
1203
00:53:46,745 --> 00:53:49,835
everything together as
best you can, we're
1204
00:53:49,878 --> 00:53:52,403
going to plan to do
something about the water
1205
00:53:52,446 --> 00:53:54,274
do something about the
houses, you should
1206
00:53:54,318 --> 00:53:58,104
plan to continue at
least for the next several
1207
00:53:58,147 --> 00:54:01,586
years, and then it was
about in February of
1208
00:54:01,629 --> 00:54:05,067
that year that
the Navy decided to
1209
00:54:05,111 --> 00:54:09,115
hold a test of the effects
of Nuclear
1210
00:54:09,158 --> 00:54:12,292
bombs on Navy vessels.
1211
00:54:12,336 --> 00:54:14,599
The joint chiefs of
staff approved the code
1212
00:54:14,642 --> 00:54:16,775
name suggested by
Admiral Blandy and
1213
00:54:16,818 --> 00:54:17,645
the venture
was christened
1214
00:54:17,689 --> 00:54:20,213
Operation Crossroads.
1215
00:54:27,742 --> 00:54:30,223
With so little
Plutonium and Uranium
1216
00:54:30,267 --> 00:54:33,531
available for the first
bombs, the scientist had
1217
00:54:33,574 --> 00:54:37,099
to devise ways to see if
they would work the way
1218
00:54:37,143 --> 00:54:40,102
they thought they would
work but without actually
1219
00:54:40,146 --> 00:54:42,931
blowing them
up, the way they did that
1220
00:54:42,975 --> 00:54:47,849
was basically to
surround a bomb core with
1221
00:54:47,893 --> 00:54:52,332
stacks of material that
would reflect neutrons
1222
00:54:52,376 --> 00:54:53,942
coming from the bomb core
1223
00:54:53,986 --> 00:54:57,772
back into the core and
increase the chain
1224
00:54:57,816 --> 00:55:00,819
reaction, if theres
enough material it's
1225
00:55:00,862 --> 00:55:03,952
basically infinite in
which case the material
1226
00:55:03,996 --> 00:55:06,215
blows up if there's
not enough material the
1227
00:55:06,259 --> 00:55:09,784
chain reaction fizzles
out at some point along
1228
00:55:09,828 --> 00:55:14,049
the way and slowly dies
down so because of this
1229
00:55:14,093 --> 00:55:17,792
two different facts it's
possible to determine
1230
00:55:17,836 --> 00:55:20,578
whether you have the right
sized bomb core.
1231
00:55:25,844 --> 00:55:27,976
It's a tricky
business, one version
1232
00:55:28,020 --> 00:55:29,587
of this kind
of testing the
1233
00:55:29,630 --> 00:55:32,503
physicist Richard Feynman
1234
00:55:32,546 --> 00:55:34,069
called it, tickling the
tail of a Dragon,
1235
00:55:34,113 --> 00:55:36,158
because of course if
you get things
1236
00:55:36,202 --> 00:55:37,943
wrong you can actually
1237
00:55:37,986 --> 00:55:41,468
start a chain reaction
going so fast that
1238
00:55:41,512 --> 00:55:43,122
it's very
difficult to stop it.
1239
00:55:43,165 --> 00:55:44,993
Then it goes
supercritical, you get
1240
00:55:45,037 --> 00:55:47,779
high levels of radiation
that's not the soft
1241
00:55:47,822 --> 00:55:49,084
radiation, its not alpha
1242
00:55:49,128 --> 00:55:51,304
you're talking beta,
you're talking gamma,
1243
00:55:51,348 --> 00:55:53,480
it's the stuff that
will kill you, they
1244
00:55:53,524 --> 00:55:54,960
also tried to keep it away
1245
00:55:55,003 --> 00:55:56,440
from the general
population so if it
1246
00:55:56,483 --> 00:55:57,354
did happen nobody else
was going to get
1247
00:55:57,397 --> 00:55:59,051
injured from it.
1248
00:55:59,094 --> 00:56:01,662
Only twice in the
course of those years
1249
00:56:01,706 --> 00:56:05,710
did it actually
happen where someone
1250
00:56:05,753 --> 00:56:08,843
was actually fatally
irradiated in the process,
1251
00:56:08,887 --> 00:56:12,194
once just at the end
of the war and then after
1252
00:56:12,238 --> 00:56:14,675
the war at a rather
famous or notorious
1253
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:18,549
event when Louis Slotin
who loved to do these bomb
1254
00:56:18,592 --> 00:56:20,377
core tests, because
they were tickling
1255
00:56:20,420 --> 00:56:21,943
the Dragons tail
they had the
1256
00:56:21,987 --> 00:56:23,858
breath of danger on them.
1257
00:56:23,902 --> 00:56:26,383
The upper part of
that reflector shell
1258
00:56:26,426 --> 00:56:28,646
slammed shut around that
1259
00:56:28,689 --> 00:56:30,648
critical assembly and
caused it to become
1260
00:56:30,691 --> 00:56:32,519
supercritical,
what you have is a
1261
00:56:32,563 --> 00:56:35,392
runaway chain reaction
that just produces
1262
00:56:35,435 --> 00:56:39,700
huge numbers, you know
billions of of Neutrons
1263
00:56:39,744 --> 00:56:42,747
almost instantaneously,
faster than a human
1264
00:56:42,790 --> 00:56:45,358
being can react within
a millisecond there
1265
00:56:45,402 --> 00:56:48,666
many generations of
neutrons that have evolved
1266
00:56:48,709 --> 00:56:50,145
in this assembly
and the neutron
1267
00:56:50,189 --> 00:56:54,585
population is huge, and
this manifests itself
1268
00:56:54,628 --> 00:56:58,284
in some interesting
physical phenomena
1269
00:56:58,327 --> 00:57:00,286
that you really don't
see unless you're in
1270
00:57:00,329 --> 00:57:03,202
real trouble, for example
theres a flash
1271
00:57:03,245 --> 00:57:06,814
of light as the air is
ionized, these neutrons
1272
00:57:06,858 --> 00:57:08,947
run out into the
air and and hit
1273
00:57:08,990 --> 00:57:11,471
things and and cause them
to become radioactive
1274
00:57:11,515 --> 00:57:12,994
and so the
counters in the
1275
00:57:13,038 --> 00:57:16,041
room all of the radiation
detectors just go wild
1276
00:57:16,084 --> 00:57:18,043
you have heat from
the release of this
1277
00:57:18,086 --> 00:57:20,480
nuclear energy its a
phenomenon that very
1278
00:57:20,524 --> 00:57:22,395
few people
experience and and those
1279
00:57:22,439 --> 00:57:25,703
who do tend to have
serious health problems
1280
00:57:25,746 --> 00:57:28,749
or in the case of
Louis Slotin you know,
1281
00:57:28,793 --> 00:57:32,753
a fatal bout with
radiation illness, I think
1282
00:57:32,797 --> 00:57:34,059
he was actually
probably fully
1283
00:57:34,102 --> 00:57:39,499
aware of the dangers and
and yet probably felt
1284
00:57:39,543 --> 00:57:42,197
a little too safe
because he had done
1285
00:57:42,241 --> 00:57:45,244
it many times before,
had done it successfully.
1286
00:57:45,287 --> 00:57:48,160
Enrico Fermi was
so concerned about
1287
00:57:48,203 --> 00:57:52,338
Slotin's testing that
whenever there
1288
00:57:52,381 --> 00:57:53,731
was a criticality
1289
00:57:53,774 --> 00:57:56,255
test going on Fermi would
move his entire team to
1290
00:57:56,298 --> 00:57:59,214
another building far
away so that if something
1291
00:57:59,258 --> 00:58:02,087
happened he wouldn't be
there to be irradiated
1292
00:58:02,130 --> 00:58:04,916
with Slotin so he
was indeed concerned about
1293
00:58:04,959 --> 00:58:11,270
this guy in the way he
was running these tests.
1294
00:58:11,313 --> 00:58:15,100
I was down at
Parjito site checking
1295
00:58:15,143 --> 00:58:17,798
things out at the time
of the Slotin accident
1296
00:58:17,842 --> 00:58:20,018
He was
testing to be sure it
1297
00:58:20,061 --> 00:58:23,238
was working properly
with a setup of
1298
00:58:23,282 --> 00:58:26,198
materials around it
1299
00:58:26,241 --> 00:58:29,767
And while I
as not a participant at
1300
00:58:29,810 --> 00:58:32,770
all in the experiment
which led to this I was in
1301
00:58:32,813 --> 00:58:36,121
the room and this of
course led to Louis
1302
00:58:36,164 --> 00:58:40,865
Slotin's death and
Al Graves having a very
1303
00:58:40,908 --> 00:58:44,390
heavy dosage of radiation
from which he recovered.
1304
00:58:44,433 --> 00:58:48,829
He was holding
the two pieces of the
1305
00:58:48,873 --> 00:58:52,224
core apart, and the
pieces fell together and
1306
00:58:52,267 --> 00:58:54,661
there was a burst of blue
light in the room,
1307
00:58:54,705 --> 00:58:57,795
irradiated everyone
including Schreib.
1308
00:58:57,838 --> 00:58:58,970
When the
screwdriver slipped
1309
00:58:59,013 --> 00:59:01,015
Slotin's instant
reaction was to
1310
00:59:01,059 --> 00:59:02,669
break the pieces apart
1311
00:59:02,713 --> 00:59:04,976
so he reached over with
his bare hands of
1312
00:59:05,019 --> 00:59:07,369
course which also
increased his exposure.
1313
00:59:07,413 --> 00:59:09,328
There was enough
tamper around it
1314
00:59:09,371 --> 00:59:12,244
reflecting neutrons in
that it started
1315
00:59:12,287 --> 00:59:13,854
a chain reaction.
1316
00:59:13,898 --> 00:59:15,856
And I was
stuck in the hospital
1317
00:59:15,900 --> 00:59:18,990
for two days I think while
observing me, and finally
1318
00:59:19,033 --> 00:59:21,035
decided that there was
nothing wrong, I had
1319
00:59:21,079 --> 00:59:22,515
been far enough
away that I
1320
00:59:22,559 --> 00:59:26,258
only got
about 25R of exposure.
1321
00:59:26,301 --> 00:59:28,347
They got a pretty
good dose although
1322
00:59:28,390 --> 00:59:30,871
nobody was was
seriously affected most
1323
00:59:30,915 --> 00:59:32,612
of the people in the room
except for poor
1324
00:59:32,656 --> 00:59:36,137
Slotin lived to a ripe
old age Slotin however was
1325
00:59:36,181 --> 00:59:39,184
fatally irradiated and
died a slow and rather
1326
00:59:39,227 --> 00:59:41,621
agonizing death
over the next 8 days.
1327
00:59:47,061 --> 00:59:50,064
We were there,
knowing how he and my
1328
00:59:50,108 --> 00:59:52,197
mother interacted he
probably said something
1329
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:54,460
about, theres been an
accident, I need to
1330
00:59:54,503 --> 00:59:56,549
change of clothes,
you cant get close to me,
1331
00:59:56,593 --> 00:59:59,291
I'm going to the hospital
and I think everything's
1332
00:59:59,334 --> 01:00:02,468
going to be fine
and that was probably
1333
01:00:02,511 --> 01:00:04,775
pretty much the
conversation, she had
1334
01:00:04,818 --> 01:00:06,559
to find Harriet Holloway
probably to
1335
01:00:06,603 --> 01:00:07,821
take care the kids
1336
01:00:07,865 --> 01:00:09,257
so she can go, but she
couldn't get to dad
1337
01:00:09,301 --> 01:00:11,564
because he was
radioactive and so they
1338
01:00:11,608 --> 01:00:14,219
weren't letting the family
close, and I get this
1339
01:00:14,262 --> 01:00:16,395
from what my dad
wrote not from what
1340
01:00:16,438 --> 01:00:20,442
he said, that Louie was a
very bright physicist
1341
01:00:20,486 --> 01:00:22,793
and really his loss
was significant because he
1342
01:00:22,836 --> 01:00:26,884
had a lot to contribute,
but he didn't do it
1343
01:00:26,927 --> 01:00:29,582
he didn't play by the
rules entirely
1344
01:00:29,626 --> 01:00:30,714
and it cost him.
1345
01:00:30,757 --> 01:00:33,064
The accident
itself plus the
1346
01:00:33,107 --> 01:00:35,675
evaluations that Schreib
and others conducted
1347
01:00:35,719 --> 01:00:36,981
led to remote
1348
01:00:37,024 --> 01:00:38,896
handling of nuclear
materials, and this is
1349
01:00:38,939 --> 01:00:41,725
really the beginning of
formal safety practices
1350
01:00:41,768 --> 01:00:43,857
dealing with critical
materials here at
1351
01:00:43,901 --> 01:00:46,033
the laboratory, and
we go to remote handling
1352
01:00:46,077 --> 01:00:48,079
the use of
televisions and just
1353
01:00:48,122 --> 01:00:50,429
staying away from the
stuff, being able
1354
01:00:50,472 --> 01:00:51,778
to to say if there's
1355
01:00:51,822 --> 01:00:53,780
an accident it won't kill
anybody but certainly
1356
01:00:53,824 --> 01:00:56,827
Schreib's work in the
accident contributed
1357
01:00:56,870 --> 01:01:00,961
mightily to moving to that
regime.
1358
01:01:01,005 --> 01:01:02,920
At the 50th
anniversary we went
1359
01:01:02,963 --> 01:01:04,835
down there with my
grandfather to visit
1360
01:01:04,878 --> 01:01:06,140
around Parijito site
1361
01:01:06,184 --> 01:01:09,796
and went out and saw
some of the Kivas, well
1362
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:11,145
you could see him
from a distance you
1363
01:01:11,189 --> 01:01:12,407
couldn't actually get
into him because they
1364
01:01:12,451 --> 01:01:14,279
were being used and
she was asked multiple
1365
01:01:14,322 --> 01:01:15,933
questions one of them
about going into
1366
01:01:15,976 --> 01:01:22,026
building one well,
after a little bit of
1367
01:01:22,069 --> 01:01:25,899
calm my grandfather
1368
01:01:25,943 --> 01:01:30,861
decided yes, under the
requirements of while
1369
01:01:30,904 --> 01:01:32,689
he was in there, no
questions are
1370
01:01:32,732 --> 01:01:33,994
asked, no films
1371
01:01:34,038 --> 01:01:35,604
taken, he would go in
there and say whatever
1372
01:01:35,648 --> 01:01:38,085
he wanted to say but
I think the really the
1373
01:01:38,129 --> 01:01:39,217
only reason why I agreed
to it was
1374
01:01:39,260 --> 01:01:40,566
because myself and my
1375
01:01:40,609 --> 01:01:43,177
mother was there, so we
went in it was a very
1376
01:01:43,221 --> 01:01:47,573
solemn occasion it was
kind of eerie in ways
1377
01:01:47,616 --> 01:01:50,315
so my grandfather pointed
out where, where he
1378
01:01:50,358 --> 01:01:52,752
was roughly, where he
was standing, where the
1379
01:01:52,796 --> 01:01:55,320
table was. I think a
couple of benches
1380
01:01:55,363 --> 01:01:57,061
were actually still in
there from around
1381
01:01:57,104 --> 01:01:59,150
that time, it was
1382
01:01:59,193 --> 01:02:02,109
calm and surreal, you can
tell it had an effect
1383
01:02:02,153 --> 01:02:05,330
on my grandfather, we got
out of the building there
1384
01:02:05,373 --> 01:02:08,159
was a few people asking
if he thought that that
1385
01:02:08,202 --> 01:02:10,509
was a really reckless
thing to do he got very
1386
01:02:10,552 --> 01:02:16,341
taunt very short with his
response and you could
1387
01:02:16,384 --> 01:02:19,648
tell it set him off, this
was a friend, it was a
1388
01:02:19,692 --> 01:02:21,215
guy that he worked with
his not going to say
1389
01:02:21,259 --> 01:02:24,305
he wasn't reckless,
he was doing things he
1390
01:02:24,349 --> 01:02:26,351
shouldn't have done the
way, my grandfather
1391
01:02:26,394 --> 01:02:29,006
put it was it was a
stupid act, somebody
1392
01:02:29,049 --> 01:02:32,226
died you had to say was
stupid but to criticize
1393
01:02:32,270 --> 01:02:34,925
a co-worker and a
criticize somebody that's
1394
01:02:34,968 --> 01:02:38,145
now dead that was ground
he didn't want to
1395
01:02:38,189 --> 01:02:40,974
tread on unfortunately
its also the thing that
1396
01:02:41,018 --> 01:02:43,672
almost everyone
interviewed my grandpa
1397
01:02:43,716 --> 01:02:46,197
wanted to know so it
became kind of a bit
1398
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:49,069
of sore subject for him,
it was something that yes
1399
01:02:49,113 --> 01:02:51,245
it happened, it was a
mistake, we learned
1400
01:02:51,289 --> 01:02:54,335
from it, we've moved on,
we completely redid
1401
01:02:54,379 --> 01:02:56,511
everything for to keep
everyone else safe not
1402
01:02:56,555 --> 01:02:58,644
just Los Alamos but
everyplace that did
1403
01:02:58,687 --> 01:03:00,689
critical assemblies.
1404
01:03:00,733 --> 01:03:03,605
I was at lunch
one day with Schreib
1405
01:03:03,649 --> 01:03:07,044
talked about the accident
with tears in his eyes
1406
01:03:07,087 --> 01:03:11,483
he felt badly about it,
he felt that Slotin I
1407
01:03:11,526 --> 01:03:14,573
think had gotten kind of
a raw deal over the years
1408
01:03:14,616 --> 01:03:17,358
he very much respected
him and the accident
1409
01:03:17,402 --> 01:03:20,013
and the outcome
troubled him
1410
01:03:20,057 --> 01:03:21,972
many many years later
1411
01:03:43,471 --> 01:03:45,256
The decision
had been made that we
1412
01:03:45,299 --> 01:03:47,084
we're going to keep
the laboratory
1413
01:03:47,127 --> 01:03:48,433
going, we we're
1414
01:03:48,476 --> 01:03:50,391
to develop new bombs and
there was going to
1415
01:03:50,435 --> 01:03:52,872
be a nuclear bomb
stockpiling effort
1416
01:03:52,916 --> 01:03:55,092
by the laboratory.
1417
01:04:03,317 --> 01:04:06,668
These two men
Schreib and Bradbury
1418
01:04:06,712 --> 01:04:10,020
were in many ways
very similar men, you
1419
01:04:10,063 --> 01:04:12,109
know they were both
experimental physicists
1420
01:04:12,152 --> 01:04:14,067
and people who
haven't been around
1421
01:04:14,111 --> 01:04:17,114
physicists possibly
don't realize how
1422
01:04:17,157 --> 01:04:20,204
different theoretical
physicist are the ones
1423
01:04:20,247 --> 01:04:23,250
do the calculations from
the guys who actually
1424
01:04:23,294 --> 01:04:25,644
do the hands-on
experiments on
1425
01:04:25,687 --> 01:04:29,126
the lab bench or in the
field. Experimentalists
1426
01:04:29,169 --> 01:04:31,476
a totally different
breed as far as Ive been
1427
01:04:31,519 --> 01:04:34,609
able to tell often
politically more conservative
1428
01:04:34,653 --> 01:04:37,047
strangely enough, they
tend to be intensely
1429
01:04:37,090 --> 01:04:39,527
practical people they've
learned to think
1430
01:04:39,571 --> 01:04:42,704
clearly about how you
manipulate objects to make
1431
01:04:42,748 --> 01:04:46,186
a certain outcome occur,
whereas theoreticians
1432
01:04:46,230 --> 01:04:48,406
are often into
literature and
1433
01:04:48,449 --> 01:04:51,322
art, often politically
quite liberal,
1434
01:04:51,365 --> 01:04:53,454
Robert Oppenheimer
was perhaps an extreme
1435
01:04:53,498 --> 01:04:56,327
example but he was a
rather neurotic man,
1436
01:04:56,370 --> 01:04:58,895
a chain smoker troubled
in some ways,
1437
01:04:58,938 --> 01:05:01,680
troubled certainly about
who he was, you never
1438
01:05:01,723 --> 01:05:04,161
had a sense with
Bradbury or Schreib
1439
01:05:04,204 --> 01:05:06,641
that they ever had any
doubt about who they
1440
01:05:06,685 --> 01:05:09,340
were and what their
place was in the
1441
01:05:09,383 --> 01:05:12,343
world and how they went
about doing their work.
1442
01:05:12,386 --> 01:05:17,783
In the fall
of '47 Holloway asked
1443
01:05:17,826 --> 01:05:20,525
me if I would like
to come up and work in
1444
01:05:20,568 --> 01:05:23,354
the division offices as
an associate division
1445
01:05:23,397 --> 01:05:25,617
leader because I was
quite interested
1446
01:05:25,660 --> 01:05:26,923
in the overall
1447
01:05:26,966 --> 01:05:29,316
work of the division and
was showing some signs
1448
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:31,188
of interest in
organization
1449
01:05:31,231 --> 01:05:32,493
and management.
1450
01:05:32,537 --> 01:05:34,278
Schreib and
Norris Bradbury were
1451
01:05:34,321 --> 01:05:37,585
kindred spirits similar
training, similar
1452
01:05:37,629 --> 01:05:38,891
education, and
1453
01:05:38,935 --> 01:05:40,414
they meshed well they
worked well together,
1454
01:05:40,458 --> 01:05:42,373
they were both
nose-to-the-grindstone
1455
01:05:42,416 --> 01:05:44,549
let's make the laboratory
work, lets advance
1456
01:05:44,592 --> 01:05:47,682
the science and technology,
they weren't politicians
1457
01:05:47,726 --> 01:05:50,250
Bradbury could run the
laboratory from his
1458
01:05:50,294 --> 01:05:52,687
directors slot, he could
take care of the overall
1459
01:05:52,731 --> 01:05:55,299
picture, as
Technical Associate Director.
1460
01:05:55,342 --> 01:05:56,865
Schreiber could
handle all the technical
1461
01:05:56,909 --> 01:05:59,477
details he could look at
individual programs and
1462
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:00,652
analyze them for what they
1463
01:06:00,695 --> 01:06:02,306
were in there
worth technically.
1464
01:06:02,349 --> 01:06:05,135
He ended up being in
charge of the W Division
1465
01:06:05,178 --> 01:06:07,354
the cores the criticality
experiments the high
1466
01:06:07,398 --> 01:06:11,750
explosive sides of it, the
chemistry side of it.
1467
01:06:11,793 --> 01:06:14,405
As well as metallurgy
side of it everything that
1468
01:06:14,448 --> 01:06:17,190
was the entire
weapons program.
1469
01:06:17,234 --> 01:06:18,713
It's said of
Oppenheimer that he built
1470
01:06:18,757 --> 01:06:21,412
the laboratory, but it's
said of Bradbury that he
1471
01:06:21,455 --> 01:06:23,718
made the laboratory of
permanent entity, and
1472
01:06:23,762 --> 01:06:26,112
certainly if that's
true Schreiber was
1473
01:06:26,156 --> 01:06:27,331
Bradbury's right
right hand
1474
01:06:27,374 --> 01:06:29,202
man making that so.
1475
01:06:39,865 --> 01:06:43,912
A crucial change
that came in '48 was
1476
01:06:43,956 --> 01:06:48,178
what was called
levitation, the first bomb
1477
01:06:48,221 --> 01:06:51,616
had a solid ball of
Plutonium, actually two
1478
01:06:51,659 --> 01:06:54,575
hemispheres at the
center of a massive
1479
01:06:54,619 --> 01:06:57,752
assembly of high
explosives and the
1480
01:06:57,796 --> 01:07:00,451
high explosives
squeezed that ball to
1481
01:07:00,494 --> 01:07:03,454
double its previous
density and about
1482
01:07:03,497 --> 01:07:07,240
half it's previous
size, they made an air
1483
01:07:07,284 --> 01:07:11,244
gap from between the
ball and the explosives
1484
01:07:11,288 --> 01:07:12,898
so that the explosive
1485
01:07:12,941 --> 01:07:17,598
shockwave had time to
accelerate before it
1486
01:07:17,642 --> 01:07:19,687
hit the core and therefore
1487
01:07:19,731 --> 01:07:22,821
could hit it a lot harder
that meant for example
1488
01:07:22,864 --> 01:07:24,214
that you could make
1489
01:07:24,257 --> 01:07:26,390
a smaller core, you didn't
need as much Plutonium
1490
01:07:26,433 --> 01:07:27,739
if you could hit it
1491
01:07:27,782 --> 01:07:29,306
harder because you could
squeeze it to a greater
1492
01:07:29,349 --> 01:07:30,959
density than the
1493
01:07:31,003 --> 01:07:34,485
other system, so when
Schreib and the others
1494
01:07:34,528 --> 01:07:36,487
developed this
first generation
1495
01:07:36,530 --> 01:07:40,143
of levitated cores they
basically doubled the
1496
01:07:40,186 --> 01:07:43,059
United States of
supply of bombs
1497
01:07:43,102 --> 01:07:45,974
you could make a bomb with
half the material you
1498
01:07:46,018 --> 01:07:47,324
made the
previous bomb with
1499
01:07:47,367 --> 01:07:48,847
that you could double the
1500
01:07:48,890 --> 01:07:51,545
number of bombs, this
turned out to be very important
1501
01:07:51,589 --> 01:07:55,027
because in August of 1949
the Soviet Union
1502
01:07:55,071 --> 01:07:58,857
tested its first atomic
bomb which was a carbon
1503
01:07:58,900 --> 01:08:01,947
copy gotten from espionage
in Los Alamos during
1504
01:08:01,990 --> 01:08:04,689
the War, I interviewed
some of the Soviet
1505
01:08:04,732 --> 01:08:07,039
scientists who worked on
those first weapons,
1506
01:08:07,083 --> 01:08:08,954
they said, and I
1507
01:08:08,997 --> 01:08:11,391
have no reason to
disbelieve them, that
1508
01:08:11,435 --> 01:08:14,612
by 1947 they had already
figured out a levitated
1509
01:08:14,655 --> 01:08:18,311
design and had a design
for a weapon that would
1510
01:08:18,355 --> 01:08:19,965
have been twice the yield
1511
01:08:20,008 --> 01:08:24,926
and half the weight of the
Fatman bomb and then
1512
01:08:24,970 --> 01:08:26,102
I said so why didn't you
1513
01:08:26,145 --> 01:08:28,016
use it in your tests?
1514
01:08:28,060 --> 01:08:30,323
And they said well are
bomb program was run
1515
01:08:30,367 --> 01:08:32,891
by the notorious KGB guy
1516
01:08:32,934 --> 01:08:37,156
Lavrenti Beria who was
notorious for being a
1517
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:40,377
brute. And he told
them when they
1518
01:08:40,420 --> 01:08:44,207
took their levitated core
design to him in '47,
1519
01:08:44,250 --> 01:08:46,861
comrades I don't care
about you or damn
1520
01:08:46,905 --> 01:08:50,691
design. I want the American
bomb, we know it works
1521
01:08:50,735 --> 01:08:53,564
give me the American
bomb or I will
1522
01:08:53,607 --> 01:08:56,741
turn you into camp dust,
meaning he would send
1523
01:08:56,784 --> 01:09:00,005
them off to the gulag,
the leader of the
1524
01:09:00,048 --> 01:09:03,356
Soviet program told me
after the end of the Soviet
1525
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:08,796
Union in '92, he said
we were concerned
1526
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:11,712
for our families and our
children and each other
1527
01:09:11,756 --> 01:09:14,759
and we gave Beria
the weapon that
1528
01:09:14,802 --> 01:09:19,285
he wanted, but the 2nd
Soviet test a year later
1529
01:09:19,329 --> 01:09:21,809
was of a weapon that
was half the weight,
1530
01:09:21,853 --> 01:09:25,770
and twice the yield as the
Fatman bomb so clearly
1531
01:09:25,813 --> 01:09:27,641
they moved on
to levitated
1532
01:09:27,685 --> 01:09:31,123
weapons by then of course
Schreib and his team had
1533
01:09:31,167 --> 01:09:32,559
already done
the same thing
1534
01:09:32,603 --> 01:09:36,433
and doubled the US arsenal
and then when the Soviets
1535
01:09:36,476 --> 01:09:39,000
tested their first bomb we
1536
01:09:39,044 --> 01:09:42,787
already understood that we
had an answer to that
1537
01:09:42,830 --> 01:09:44,789
if you believe
that there's
1538
01:09:44,832 --> 01:09:47,792
such a thing as deterrence
and certainly at some
1539
01:09:47,835 --> 01:09:50,447
level the fact that
a country that's
1540
01:09:50,490 --> 01:09:53,450
your enemy has nuclear
weapons would certainly
1541
01:09:53,493 --> 01:09:55,843
deter you from
deciding to attack
1542
01:09:55,887 --> 01:09:59,456
them without a good deal
of thought at least and
1543
01:09:59,499 --> 01:10:01,806
of course, there never
was a war between
1544
01:10:01,849 --> 01:10:04,374
the United States and the
Soviet Union probably
1545
01:10:04,417 --> 01:10:07,986
for exactly that
reason, nevertheless
1546
01:10:08,029 --> 01:10:13,121
there was a great hurrying
and scurrying in Washington
1547
01:10:13,165 --> 01:10:15,036
among the
politicians about
1548
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:16,908
what are we going to do?
What are we going to do?
1549
01:10:16,951 --> 01:10:19,824
The Russians have
the bomb shouldn't
1550
01:10:19,867 --> 01:10:21,956
we go for a hydrogen bomb,
what should we do?
1551
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:24,132
What should we do?
And the calm
1552
01:10:24,176 --> 01:10:26,309
answer from people like
Schreib and Robert
1553
01:10:26,352 --> 01:10:28,180
Oppenheimer and
others was
1554
01:10:28,224 --> 01:10:31,879
look we've got a lot more
atomic bombs than they
1555
01:10:31,923 --> 01:10:33,446
do, a lot more
fission weapons
1556
01:10:33,490 --> 01:10:35,840
than they do and were
turning them out at a
1557
01:10:35,883 --> 01:10:38,669
great rate now we've
got the reactors
1558
01:10:38,712 --> 01:10:42,194
going in Washington where
were making good bombs
1559
01:10:42,238 --> 01:10:44,501
they're reliable
off-the-shelf
1560
01:10:44,544 --> 01:10:48,766
wooden bombs, now hold
your horses as
1561
01:10:48,809 --> 01:10:50,420
Oppenheimer said
to Teller
1562
01:10:50,463 --> 01:10:52,378
hold your horses,
keep your shirt on.
1563
01:11:06,740 --> 01:11:09,656
Bikini Atoll a dot
on the map in the mid
1564
01:11:09,700 --> 01:11:11,571
Pacific was destined
to become a focal
1565
01:11:11,615 --> 01:11:13,704
point for the eyes of
the world.
1566
01:11:13,747 --> 01:11:16,010
There was
discussion among some
1567
01:11:16,054 --> 01:11:18,578
politicians and
military people about
1568
01:11:18,622 --> 01:11:21,799
further demonstrating the
destructive capacity
1569
01:11:21,842 --> 01:11:24,541
of atomic bombs,
and it was a
1570
01:11:24,584 --> 01:11:26,543
little bit of a
controversy particularly
1571
01:11:26,586 --> 01:11:28,545
here at Los Alamos
because Bradbury among
1572
01:11:28,588 --> 01:11:30,547
others thought that
Hiroshima and Nagasaki,
1573
01:11:30,590 --> 01:11:32,549
provided more than ample
1574
01:11:32,592 --> 01:11:34,246
proof about the
destructive capability
1575
01:11:34,290 --> 01:11:37,510
of atomic bombs, but
the military particularly
1576
01:11:37,554 --> 01:11:39,512
the Navy wanted to test
the atomic bombs
1577
01:11:39,556 --> 01:11:42,385
against ships.
1578
01:11:44,604 --> 01:11:47,564
The summer of '46
the Navy assembled what
1579
01:11:47,607 --> 01:11:49,740
remained of the
Japanese battle fleet,
1580
01:11:49,783 --> 01:11:51,742
there was the German
cruiser the Prinz
1581
01:11:51,785 --> 01:11:53,744
Eugen and then
a number of United
1582
01:11:53,787 --> 01:11:55,746
States warships that were
becoming obsolete,
1583
01:11:55,789 --> 01:11:57,095
and they sailed
all these
1584
01:11:57,138 --> 01:11:59,358
ships into Bikini Lagoon
in the Marshall Islands
1585
01:11:59,402 --> 01:12:01,273
and detonated two
atomic bombs
1586
01:12:01,317 --> 01:12:03,319
to test the effects.
1587
01:12:03,362 --> 01:12:06,104
There was actually
three, so there was going
1588
01:12:06,147 --> 01:12:08,236
a be a deep water
shot, a shallow water
1589
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:11,501
shot and then airburst
shot, the airburst was
1590
01:12:11,544 --> 01:12:13,590
going to be another
almost exactly like a
1591
01:12:13,633 --> 01:12:15,983
Fatman shot, then there
was going to be the
1592
01:12:16,027 --> 01:12:17,768
deep water which
was going to be
1593
01:12:17,811 --> 01:12:19,160
about a mile down and
they we're going to
1594
01:12:19,204 --> 01:12:22,555
try and do a shallow
water they ended up
1595
01:12:22,599 --> 01:12:24,557
only doing the shallow
and the air burst
1596
01:12:24,601 --> 01:12:25,950
because they couldn't
quite figure out how
1597
01:12:25,993 --> 01:12:29,780
to anchor it down low to
be actually get data
1598
01:12:29,823 --> 01:12:31,434
from it, and they
don't want to just
1599
01:12:31,477 --> 01:12:33,305
blow something
up and not
1600
01:12:33,349 --> 01:12:34,698
get data from it.
1601
01:12:34,741 --> 01:12:36,134
Schreib had kind
of an interesting part
1602
01:12:36,177 --> 01:12:38,789
in Crossroads, he was
again a courier
1603
01:12:38,832 --> 01:12:42,140
as he had been for the
Nagasaki bomb.
1604
01:12:42,183 --> 01:12:45,535
We got an Army
knapsack, it's one I still
1605
01:12:45,578 --> 01:12:47,928
carry around for
hauling rocks
1606
01:12:47,972 --> 01:12:50,583
and that sort of thing and
stuffed the carrying
1607
01:12:50,627 --> 01:12:52,672
case in it.
1608
01:12:52,716 --> 01:12:54,544
He was carrying at
least one of the cores
1609
01:12:54,587 --> 01:12:56,154
again like he'd
done over to
1610
01:12:56,197 --> 01:12:58,504
Tinian the boats we're
pitching around in water
1611
01:12:58,548 --> 01:12:59,853
and as they were getting
1612
01:12:59,897 --> 01:13:02,595
ready for the shot and
he's bringing the core
1613
01:13:02,639 --> 01:13:03,988
with him and
all the sudden
1614
01:13:04,031 --> 01:13:06,643
he gets grabbed by one of
the military officers
1615
01:13:06,686 --> 01:13:09,385
he hands a rope
down and tells
1616
01:13:09,428 --> 01:13:12,126
him to tie it off, and at
first grandpa was a little
1617
01:13:12,170 --> 01:13:15,086
ike "tie what off?",
the officer said
1618
01:13:15,129 --> 01:13:17,610
tie the knapsack you can
go into the water
1619
01:13:17,654 --> 01:13:22,354
but I don't want that going
into the water.
1620
01:13:22,398 --> 01:13:24,748
The Albemarle was
converted into the bomb
1621
01:13:24,791 --> 01:13:27,011
carrying and
assembly vessel.
1622
01:13:27,054 --> 01:13:29,317
They had to find a
way to both keep the
1623
01:13:29,361 --> 01:13:33,017
Plutonium secure and
secret and protecting
1624
01:13:33,060 --> 01:13:35,672
anybody from knowing what
it is, so they made a big
1625
01:13:35,715 --> 01:13:37,848
deal about
putting backpacks
1626
01:13:37,891 --> 01:13:41,417
in bolted strong boxes on
the ships deck and then
1627
01:13:41,460 --> 01:13:43,027
they surrounded
the strong boxes
1628
01:13:43,070 --> 01:13:44,942
with a company of soldiers
with rifles and machine
1629
01:13:44,985 --> 01:13:46,639
guns and made a
big deal about
1630
01:13:46,683 --> 01:13:49,555
protecting it, but the
truth is that the real
1631
01:13:49,599 --> 01:13:51,862
backpack was taken
below put on a
1632
01:13:51,905 --> 01:13:54,908
bunk and one of the one of
the army guys quarters
1633
01:13:54,952 --> 01:13:56,388
and Schreib
slept with it
1634
01:13:56,432 --> 01:13:58,390
all the way out to Bikini.
1635
01:13:58,434 --> 01:14:00,566
The Plutonium
Core was actually in a
1636
01:14:00,610 --> 01:14:02,873
stateroom next
to my stateroom
1637
01:14:02,916 --> 01:14:08,487
with our local MP security
officers living with it
1638
01:14:08,531 --> 01:14:11,229
I went in everyday
or so to pat it
1639
01:14:11,272 --> 01:14:15,886
take it's temperature and
sniff around I don't know
1640
01:14:15,929 --> 01:14:17,191
what I would
done if anything
1641
01:14:17,235 --> 01:14:20,412
had gone wrong and I had
to go through the act.
1642
01:14:22,109 --> 01:14:25,852
He was responsible
at Bikini for building
1643
01:14:25,896 --> 01:14:28,202
the two bombs
that were used
1644
01:14:28,246 --> 01:14:29,943
they were codenamed
Able and Baker.
1645
01:14:29,987 --> 01:14:33,425
My assembly
crew, Neil Davis and
1646
01:14:33,469 --> 01:14:36,733
Roy Thompson,
Ted Perlman
1647
01:14:36,776 --> 01:14:38,169
and Harold Hammel
1648
01:14:38,212 --> 01:14:40,650
was my team, we'll
they'd gotten out there
1649
01:14:40,693 --> 01:14:43,087
beforehand and
had our little
1650
01:14:43,130 --> 01:14:45,524
laboratory all set up we
had our own private
1651
01:14:45,568 --> 01:14:48,396
Marine guard in
front of the door
1652
01:14:48,440 --> 01:14:52,444
people we're only let in
on showing their badge
1653
01:14:52,488 --> 01:14:54,838
identifying themselves.
1654
01:14:54,881 --> 01:14:57,231
Modifications to
prepare a Daves Dream
1655
01:14:57,275 --> 01:14:59,059
for the bomb were
made by technicians
1656
01:14:59,103 --> 01:15:01,888
assigned by Manhattan
Engineer District.
1657
01:15:01,932 --> 01:15:05,413
In due course,
we then had the time for
1658
01:15:05,457 --> 01:15:08,373
the loading of the
aircraft went through
1659
01:15:08,416 --> 01:15:11,898
all of the assembly
procedures offloaded the
1660
01:15:11,942 --> 01:15:14,727
assembled bomb onto
the pier and
1661
01:15:14,771 --> 01:15:17,121
it was trundled away on
it's trailer behind
1662
01:15:17,164 --> 01:15:19,645
a truck and loaded
into the
1663
01:15:19,689 --> 01:15:22,256
B-29 which was to drop it.
1664
01:15:22,300 --> 01:15:24,389
The laboratory unit
of this group delivered
1665
01:15:24,432 --> 01:15:26,347
the first bomb to
the crew of the plane a
1666
01:15:26,391 --> 01:15:29,612
minimum period before
takeoff, two-weaponers
1667
01:15:29,655 --> 01:15:31,483
were assigned to
ride in the plane
1668
01:15:31,527 --> 01:15:33,964
and arm the bomb after the
aircraft was a safe
1669
01:15:34,007 --> 01:15:36,662
distance from
Kwajalein, all was
1670
01:15:36,706 --> 01:15:39,360
ready for Able Day and at
eight-forty nine,
1671
01:15:39,404 --> 01:15:41,624
Admiral Blandy signals
for the start of
1672
01:15:41,667 --> 01:15:43,147
the bombing run, on
1673
01:15:43,190 --> 01:15:45,889
the cry "bomb away" the
world's 4th atomic bomb
1674
01:15:45,932 --> 01:15:49,109
plummets earthward
about five-hundred
1675
01:15:49,153 --> 01:15:50,589
feet above the surface of
the lagoon the
1676
01:15:50,633 --> 01:15:52,548
bomb explodes.
1677
01:15:55,855 --> 01:15:58,162
Well the bomb
is dropped unfortunately
1678
01:15:58,205 --> 01:15:59,990
the bombardier missed
the center of the target
1679
01:16:00,033 --> 01:16:05,169
array by about 1500 feet
and then a few days
1680
01:16:05,212 --> 01:16:07,301
after everything settled
down again we
1681
01:16:07,345 --> 01:16:11,915
disembarked from Kwajalein
and went down and
1682
01:16:11,958 --> 01:16:15,135
anchored in the
Bikini Lagoon outside the
1683
01:16:15,179 --> 01:16:18,008
target array for the
underwater test they had
1684
01:16:18,051 --> 01:16:20,793
a landing barge which
had been specially
1685
01:16:20,837 --> 01:16:22,926
adapted, what they had
done is cut right down
1686
01:16:22,969 --> 01:16:25,319
through the hull and
put in a well and suspended
1687
01:16:25,363 --> 01:16:29,019
it underneath this landing
craft and I have a series
1688
01:16:29,062 --> 01:16:33,023
of shots that I took
in 35 millimeter
1689
01:16:33,066 --> 01:16:36,896
slides of that bomb blast,
I got up on the
1690
01:16:36,940 --> 01:16:40,160
searchlight platform
and we could hear the
1691
01:16:40,204 --> 01:16:44,077
countdown, so at zero I
just started shooting
1692
01:16:44,121 --> 01:16:46,166
pictures as fast as
I could and I got about
1693
01:16:46,210 --> 01:16:50,301
eight or ten before the
cloud chamber effect
1694
01:16:50,344 --> 01:16:52,651
obscured the whole
target array
1695
01:16:52,695 --> 01:16:53,696
one....
1696
01:16:53,739 --> 01:16:55,567
fire...
1697
01:17:03,140 --> 01:17:05,664
Then over the
next few days we were able
1698
01:17:05,708 --> 01:17:09,146
to go and take a
small boat and go
1699
01:17:09,189 --> 01:17:11,061
around and see
what happened.
1700
01:17:11,104 --> 01:17:13,150
Of course,
the effects as Bradbury
1701
01:17:13,193 --> 01:17:14,934
predicted were
the same, theres no
1702
01:17:14,978 --> 01:17:17,110
defense against atomic
bombs ships are never
1703
01:17:17,154 --> 01:17:18,938
rugged enough and if you
1704
01:17:18,982 --> 01:17:21,811
don't sink him you make
them radioactive so that
1705
01:17:21,854 --> 01:17:24,335
the crews can't
survive or sail them.
1706
01:17:41,178 --> 01:17:43,310
We had
something like 10 days
1707
01:17:43,354 --> 01:17:45,835
to 2 weeks just
to loaf around
1708
01:17:51,710 --> 01:17:53,930
It's a pretty
humdrum existence there
1709
01:17:53,973 --> 01:17:57,194
was an editor from all
places the canning & food
1710
01:17:57,237 --> 01:17:59,936
freezing magazine who was
invited out as part of
1711
01:17:59,979 --> 01:18:01,938
the press contingent
and he basically
1712
01:18:01,981 --> 01:18:03,635
was bored to death,
and I think that
1713
01:18:03,679 --> 01:18:08,118
epitomizes sort of the
life at Bikini was you had
1714
01:18:08,161 --> 01:18:10,947
several seconds of intense
excitement as these
1715
01:18:10,990 --> 01:18:12,209
bombs went off
and you saw the
1716
01:18:12,252 --> 01:18:15,212
mushroom clouds, but the
day-to-day life was
1717
01:18:15,255 --> 01:18:17,170
pretty tedious
you could swim you
1718
01:18:17,214 --> 01:18:19,390
could read maybe watch a
movie on the ships
1719
01:18:19,433 --> 01:18:22,306
deck of it didn't rain,
you can drink a little
1720
01:18:22,349 --> 01:18:25,091
beer but beyond that it
was pretty humdrum
1721
01:18:25,135 --> 01:18:28,225
and fairly tedious.
1722
01:18:28,268 --> 01:18:30,270
We did an
awful lot of sunning & we
1723
01:18:30,314 --> 01:18:34,100
also went off on
junkets and it
1724
01:18:34,144 --> 01:18:35,580
was very annoying
1725
01:18:35,623 --> 01:18:37,277
that the smoking lamp was
out about half the
1726
01:18:37,321 --> 01:18:40,237
time aboard ship,
we finally learned to
1727
01:18:40,280 --> 01:18:42,848
take care of that
situation by retiring to
1728
01:18:42,892 --> 01:18:46,025
our laboratory where not
even the ships captain
1729
01:18:46,069 --> 01:18:50,856
could come and having our
smokes there and we
1730
01:18:50,900 --> 01:18:53,163
returned on the
Able Mable blessed
1731
01:18:53,206 --> 01:18:55,643
captain decided he was
going to make an economy
1732
01:18:55,687 --> 01:18:58,516
run and so we
chugged along
1733
01:18:58,559 --> 01:19:00,866
I think it took us
twelve days to come back
1734
01:19:00,910 --> 01:19:05,392
at 10 knots and it
was awfully dull.
1735
01:19:05,436 --> 01:19:07,481
He not knowing it
probably not really
1736
01:19:07,525 --> 01:19:10,049
appreciating it and
in knowing Schreib
1737
01:19:10,093 --> 01:19:13,139
not putting much stock in
it, he probably and I
1738
01:19:13,183 --> 01:19:14,401
think in all reality,
the summer
1739
01:19:14,445 --> 01:19:17,143
of '45-'46 he was one
of the three most
1740
01:19:17,187 --> 01:19:18,971
important people in the
world when it came
1741
01:19:19,015 --> 01:19:22,061
to atomic bombs, not even
the Soviets had a
1742
01:19:22,105 --> 01:19:23,715
Schreiber who
could to build
1743
01:19:23,759 --> 01:19:25,891
an atomic bomb
at that point.
1744
01:19:30,635 --> 01:19:34,421
The time is ten
forty-seven, this is a
1745
01:19:34,465 --> 01:19:37,468
Conelrad radio
alert normal broadcasting
1746
01:19:37,511 --> 01:19:40,514
will be discontinued for
an indefinite period.
1747
01:19:40,558 --> 01:19:42,734
Ladies and
gentlemen you've heard
1748
01:19:42,778 --> 01:19:44,170
the reports of
enemy planes are
1749
01:19:44,214 --> 01:19:47,347
approaching in less than
3 hours an H Bomb might
1750
01:19:47,391 --> 01:19:50,960
fall over
Portland.
1751
01:19:52,657 --> 01:19:55,486
Edward Teller a
Hungarian-American
1752
01:19:55,529 --> 01:19:59,185
scientist who had
come up with the idea
1753
01:19:59,229 --> 01:20:03,581
of a hydrogen weapon
in 1941 talking with the
1754
01:20:03,624 --> 01:20:06,932
great Italian
physicist Enrico Fermi.
1755
01:20:06,976 --> 01:20:08,368
Teller was one
of those people that
1756
01:20:08,412 --> 01:20:11,197
chafed at what he called
pedestrian work during
1757
01:20:11,241 --> 01:20:13,373
World War II He was
originally in charge of
1758
01:20:13,417 --> 01:20:15,549
the Theoretical Division
but he didn't like
1759
01:20:15,593 --> 01:20:19,292
it he felt like developing
the atomic bomb was a done
1760
01:20:19,336 --> 01:20:20,598
deal certainly
theres a lot of
1761
01:20:20,641 --> 01:20:22,861
work to do he never
denied that but he knew
1762
01:20:22,905 --> 01:20:24,558
it was a done deal
and his mind
1763
01:20:24,602 --> 01:20:26,604
was fertile enough and
active enough that he
1764
01:20:26,647 --> 01:20:28,824
was looking for
the next challenge.
1765
01:20:28,867 --> 01:20:32,305
And so
Oppenheimer rather
1766
01:20:32,349 --> 01:20:34,525
wisely decided,
well alright
1767
01:20:34,568 --> 01:20:36,788
if Edward wants to
work on the Hydrogen
1768
01:20:36,832 --> 01:20:38,137
bomb were
going to work on
1769
01:20:38,181 --> 01:20:40,400
that someday, so let him
get started and he turned
1770
01:20:40,444 --> 01:20:43,055
Teller over to that
task rather
1771
01:20:43,099 --> 01:20:45,405
than the task of doing
some of the very
1772
01:20:45,449 --> 01:20:47,233
complicated mathematics
that had to be
1773
01:20:47,277 --> 01:20:50,454
done one of the outcomes
of that decision was
1774
01:20:50,497 --> 01:20:52,456
that Oppenheimer
was short on
1775
01:20:52,499 --> 01:20:55,763
mathematicians who could
do calculations, that's
1776
01:20:55,807 --> 01:20:57,678
what they
substituted in those
1777
01:20:57,722 --> 01:20:59,245
days for the computers,
1778
01:20:59,289 --> 01:21:03,206
that did not yet exist
and called on the British
1779
01:21:03,249 --> 01:21:05,599
to send over their team to
1780
01:21:05,643 --> 01:21:08,907
supplement the calculating
team in Los Alamos
1781
01:21:08,951 --> 01:21:10,604
among the people in the
1782
01:21:10,648 --> 01:21:13,738
British team was one of
the Soviet spies Klaus
1783
01:21:13,781 --> 01:21:15,305
Fuchs so it's possible
1784
01:21:15,348 --> 01:21:18,830
to blame Teller to some
degree for the
1785
01:21:18,874 --> 01:21:20,527
appearance in Los Alamos
1786
01:21:20,571 --> 01:21:22,529
of Klaus Fuchs.
1787
01:21:22,573 --> 01:21:24,314
The ring was
first uncovered following
1788
01:21:24,357 --> 01:21:27,360
the arrest of Klaus Fuchs
in England Greenglass
1789
01:21:27,404 --> 01:21:30,233
Mrs Rosenberg's brother
confessed theft of the
1790
01:21:30,276 --> 01:21:31,712
secrets while
stationed at the
1791
01:21:31,756 --> 01:21:33,714
Los Alamos atomic project.
1792
01:21:33,758 --> 01:21:37,196
Teller acquired
a small team to help
1793
01:21:37,240 --> 01:21:39,677
him including a Polish
1794
01:21:39,720 --> 01:21:43,072
mathematician of great
gifts whose name
1795
01:21:43,115 --> 01:21:45,335
was Stanislaw Ulam
1796
01:21:45,378 --> 01:21:48,642
Stan Ulam a bit
reluctantly joined in
1797
01:21:48,686 --> 01:21:51,471
working with Teller
the two men really
1798
01:21:51,515 --> 01:21:53,560
did not get along they
were very different
1799
01:21:53,604 --> 01:21:56,302
personality types
nevertheless they worked
1800
01:21:56,346 --> 01:21:59,044
together on this problem
and then the question
1801
01:21:59,088 --> 01:22:02,308
as I said came up of
whether or not the
1802
01:22:02,352 --> 01:22:05,181
United States should
start a crash program
1803
01:22:05,224 --> 01:22:08,836
to build a Hydrogen
bomb and the Oppenheimer
1804
01:22:08,880 --> 01:22:11,274
lead committee of the
Atomic Energy Commission
1805
01:22:11,317 --> 01:22:14,755
voted no! Teller and
his rather
1806
01:22:14,799 --> 01:22:16,148
politically conservative
1807
01:22:16,192 --> 01:22:20,936
friends were immensely
incensed decided that
1808
01:22:20,979 --> 01:22:23,025
someone was trying to let
1809
01:22:23,068 --> 01:22:25,070
the Soviets get a
head of us.
1810
01:22:25,114 --> 01:22:27,812
There's a lot of
emotions that started
1811
01:22:27,855 --> 01:22:29,031
running high
about that time.
1812
01:22:29,074 --> 01:22:31,685
Teller
notoriously said in his
1813
01:22:31,729 --> 01:22:33,992
distinctive Hungarian a
accent
1814
01:22:34,036 --> 01:22:35,515
"if we don't build a
1815
01:22:35,559 --> 01:22:39,955
Hydrogen bomb, I will be
prisoner of the Soviet
1816
01:22:39,998 --> 01:22:42,522
Union in the
United States within
1817
01:22:42,566 --> 01:22:46,178
five years", thats an
amazing thing for someone
1818
01:22:46,222 --> 01:22:48,267
to say but I
think Teller had
1819
01:22:48,311 --> 01:22:52,271
a longstanding fear of the
Russian colossus that
1820
01:22:52,315 --> 01:22:54,534
played into his sense and
1821
01:22:54,578 --> 01:22:57,320
remember the Hydrogen
bomb in his mind
1822
01:22:57,363 --> 01:22:59,278
was his idea.
1823
01:22:59,322 --> 01:23:00,758
We were very much
in the Cold War and
1824
01:23:00,801 --> 01:23:03,108
the arms race at that
point, there was a lot of
1825
01:23:03,152 --> 01:23:05,197
consternation including
Teller pretty much
1826
01:23:05,241 --> 01:23:07,112
stomping out in the
laboratory, going over
1827
01:23:07,156 --> 01:23:09,201
to Lawrence Livermore to
continue developing
1828
01:23:09,245 --> 01:23:10,724
it instead of being
at the lab.
1829
01:23:10,768 --> 01:23:13,249
When the Soviet
Union tested its first
1830
01:23:13,292 --> 01:23:16,730
atomic bomb, the
scientific advisory
1831
01:23:16,774 --> 01:23:18,994
committee to the Atomic
Energy Commission
1832
01:23:19,037 --> 01:23:21,561
met in an important
1833
01:23:21,605 --> 01:23:26,305
meeting in October of 1949
and basically said we
1834
01:23:26,349 --> 01:23:27,654
don't know how to build a
1835
01:23:27,698 --> 01:23:30,701
Hydrogen bomb yet, if you
want us to go that route
1836
01:23:30,744 --> 01:23:33,834
there are some
reasons why its not
1837
01:23:33,878 --> 01:23:37,229
a good idea we do know how
to build smaller,
1838
01:23:37,273 --> 01:23:39,623
lighter weight,
more efficient
1839
01:23:39,666 --> 01:23:43,931
atomic bombs, so we think
we should do what we're
1840
01:23:43,975 --> 01:23:45,629
already doing because
1841
01:23:45,672 --> 01:23:47,544
President Truman ordered
us to do this
1842
01:23:47,587 --> 01:23:50,286
last summer which is
increase the
1843
01:23:50,329 --> 01:23:52,897
production of fission
weapons that should
1844
01:23:52,940 --> 01:23:56,031
be our response to the
Soviet development of
1845
01:23:56,074 --> 01:23:57,902
a fission weapon
of it's own.
1846
01:23:57,945 --> 01:24:00,948
There had
been debates going on in
1847
01:24:00,992 --> 01:24:02,950
the upper circles for
sometime
1848
01:24:02,994 --> 01:24:04,343
about the possibility
1849
01:24:04,387 --> 01:24:08,739
of building a Hydrogen
bomb so called and finally
1850
01:24:08,782 --> 01:24:11,524
there was the top
level decision
1851
01:24:11,568 --> 01:24:15,441
that the laboratory should
go into an all out effort
1852
01:24:15,485 --> 01:24:17,791
to develop this if it
could be developed
1853
01:24:17,835 --> 01:24:20,838
and this decision was made
I believe in
1854
01:24:20,881 --> 01:24:22,753
November of 1950.
1855
01:24:22,796 --> 01:24:24,711
Up to now the
laboratory has had
1856
01:24:24,755 --> 01:24:27,323
sufficient time to compile
information
1857
01:24:27,366 --> 01:24:28,802
and revise weapon
1858
01:24:28,846 --> 01:24:31,457
design before a field
test of the weapon
1859
01:24:31,501 --> 01:24:33,807
as of now the
situation has changed we
1860
01:24:33,851 --> 01:24:37,115
must take risks calculated
risks is true but
1861
01:24:37,159 --> 01:24:38,943
risks nevertheless.
1862
01:24:38,986 --> 01:24:40,249
Almost
immediately went onto
1863
01:24:40,292 --> 01:24:42,947
a six day work week a
year to the day of the
1864
01:24:42,990 --> 01:24:46,516
decision to start, we
made the first test,
1865
01:24:46,559 --> 01:24:49,606
of the so
called Mike shot.
1866
01:24:49,649 --> 01:24:52,609
Unlike Little Boy
and Fatman Mike was
1867
01:24:52,652 --> 01:24:56,656
about 80 tons had
this liquid fuel that
1868
01:24:56,700 --> 01:24:58,615
had to be maintained at
extraordinary low
1869
01:24:58,658 --> 01:25:00,617
temperatures in
hot humid Pacific
1870
01:25:00,660 --> 01:25:02,706
where was tested and it
stood about three or
1871
01:25:02,749 --> 01:25:04,795
four stories tall
so it was it was
1872
01:25:04,838 --> 01:25:07,363
not a weapon of war it
was certainly a bomb
1873
01:25:07,406 --> 01:25:08,929
but it was not a
weapon of war.
1874
01:25:08,973 --> 01:25:12,019
We'll Marshall
was chosen by Norris
1875
01:25:12,063 --> 01:25:14,674
Bradbury to take
charge of that
1876
01:25:14,718 --> 01:25:18,025
whole operation and he had
essentially top
1877
01:25:18,069 --> 01:25:19,810
priority on all of the
1878
01:25:19,853 --> 01:25:23,205
laboratory facilities and
personal I was put
1879
01:25:23,248 --> 01:25:25,511
in as acting
N Division leader
1880
01:25:25,555 --> 01:25:28,471
our job there was to
follow up with the
1881
01:25:28,514 --> 01:25:31,300
experimental work
the design and
1882
01:25:31,343 --> 01:25:35,347
fabrication of the test
devices but we we're
1883
01:25:35,391 --> 01:25:37,654
supposed to be
following up with some
1884
01:25:37,697 --> 01:25:40,744
reasonable designs which
could actually be used and
1885
01:25:40,787 --> 01:25:43,399
shoehorned
into an airplane.
1886
01:25:43,442 --> 01:25:45,792
When then
everything was shipped
1887
01:25:45,836 --> 01:25:47,794
out to Enewetak
they were testing
1888
01:25:47,838 --> 01:25:51,102
everything out in the
last days before the
1889
01:25:51,146 --> 01:25:53,713
thing was going
to be exploded
1890
01:25:53,757 --> 01:25:57,804
he discovered that the
core that was used in
1891
01:25:57,848 --> 01:26:00,024
this really hot
atomic bomb
1892
01:26:00,067 --> 01:26:03,114
might have a tendency
to pre-detonate, which
1893
01:26:03,158 --> 01:26:04,376
would mean it
would melt down
1894
01:26:04,420 --> 01:26:06,552
instead of exploding
properly and the whole
1895
01:26:06,596 --> 01:26:07,771
test would be
wasted and this
1896
01:26:07,814 --> 01:26:10,252
was a big test, I mean
this was a tank of
1897
01:26:10,295 --> 01:26:12,471
Deuterium with
gallons and gallons
1898
01:26:12,515 --> 01:26:14,734
of a material that
previously in been made
1899
01:26:14,778 --> 01:26:16,997
by the gram, this
was really
1900
01:26:17,041 --> 01:26:20,262
a heroic test that was
involved so Schreib took
1901
01:26:20,305 --> 01:26:23,961
the responsibility the night
1902
01:26:24,004 --> 01:26:27,443
before the test of
changing out the core,
1903
01:26:27,486 --> 01:26:30,054
for another core
that they knew was
1904
01:26:30,097 --> 01:26:33,144
reliable so that he was
quite confident that it
1905
01:26:33,188 --> 01:26:35,581
wouldn't pre-detonate
thats the
1906
01:26:35,625 --> 01:26:39,411
kind of thing that sounds
easy to do but if you
1907
01:26:39,455 --> 01:26:41,935
think about it the
risk that he
1908
01:26:41,979 --> 01:26:44,460
had to take in terms of
his personal
1909
01:26:44,503 --> 01:26:47,419
responsibility, his
confidence, in his
1910
01:26:47,463 --> 01:26:50,553
numbers, his confidence
in the physics of what
1911
01:26:50,596 --> 01:26:52,729
he was doing it probably
1912
01:26:52,772 --> 01:26:57,037
required all those
previous years of work
1913
01:26:57,081 --> 01:26:58,648
that he had done,
intimate
1914
01:26:58,691 --> 01:27:01,564
hands on work for him
to be prepared to make
1915
01:27:01,607 --> 01:27:04,088
such a momentous decision.
1916
01:27:07,091 --> 01:27:11,095
I was out for
the Mike shot and it was
1917
01:27:11,138 --> 01:27:13,402
truly impressive we
were about 30 miles
1918
01:27:13,445 --> 01:27:16,579
away on a ship and it
still scared the hell
1919
01:27:16,622 --> 01:27:18,755
out of me when
it went off
1920
01:27:18,798 --> 01:27:22,498
The previous
explosions were large,
1921
01:27:22,541 --> 01:27:28,634
but the Mike shot was awe
inspiring, as he put it
1922
01:27:28,678 --> 01:27:33,160
it truly defined the word
awesome as how big the
1923
01:27:33,204 --> 01:27:36,642
shot was, kept on going
and going and going
1924
01:27:36,686 --> 01:27:39,341
We'll this
successful test brought
1925
01:27:39,384 --> 01:27:41,517
on another flurry of
1926
01:27:41,560 --> 01:27:44,998
activity to develop
stockpileable
1927
01:27:45,042 --> 01:27:50,700
devices, and over the next
18 months there were about
1928
01:27:50,743 --> 01:27:54,138
5 or 6 different
variations
1929
01:27:54,181 --> 01:27:58,055
designed and tested, the
interesting thing was
1930
01:27:58,098 --> 01:27:59,926
they all worked
including some that
1931
01:27:59,970 --> 01:28:03,452
were regarded as being of
very marginal design
1932
01:28:03,495 --> 01:28:05,105
on a theoretical basis.
1933
01:28:05,149 --> 01:28:07,673
So all of that
was going on the lab
1934
01:28:07,717 --> 01:28:10,850
was thriving they were
recruiting young scientist
1935
01:28:10,894 --> 01:28:13,636
to come work there they
were turning out bombs
1936
01:28:13,679 --> 01:28:15,725
and fast, we were
turning on bombs
1937
01:28:15,768 --> 01:28:19,206
by the thousands the
United States by the
1938
01:28:19,250 --> 01:28:21,557
height of the
Cold War had
1939
01:28:21,600 --> 01:28:26,649
some 40,000 Hydrogen and
Uranium and Plutonium
1940
01:28:26,692 --> 01:28:29,521
weapons in its
storehouses and
1941
01:28:29,565 --> 01:28:32,698
the Soviet Union
which always cranked out
1942
01:28:32,742 --> 01:28:36,572
more than it needed
had some 75,000 enough
1943
01:28:36,615 --> 01:28:39,531
to destroy the world
many times over, I'm
1944
01:28:39,575 --> 01:28:41,707
happy to say were
now down to about a
1945
01:28:41,751 --> 01:28:44,884
total in the world of
about 13,000
1946
01:28:44,928 --> 01:28:47,887
still enough to destroy
the world many times
1947
01:28:47,931 --> 01:28:52,849
over but perhaps not as
many times as in the 1980's
1948
01:28:57,593 --> 01:28:59,290
With the
extraordinary
1949
01:28:59,334 --> 01:29:01,031
ingenuity and real
1950
01:29:01,074 --> 01:29:04,600
genius that was involved
in taking a physical
1951
01:29:04,643 --> 01:29:07,864
reaction discovered
on a bench top in Nazi
1952
01:29:07,907 --> 01:29:11,563
Germany in 1938, and
turning it into this
1953
01:29:11,607 --> 01:29:17,090
whole new field of
energy, for power,
1954
01:29:17,134 --> 01:29:19,789
for medicine
1955
01:29:19,832 --> 01:29:24,881
for all sorts of
humane uses, but also
1956
01:29:24,924 --> 01:29:30,147
for terrible weapons,
it's easy to shrug and
1957
01:29:30,190 --> 01:29:33,629
say those were terrible
things we should of
1958
01:29:33,672 --> 01:29:37,546
never of done that,
as an historian I feel
1959
01:29:37,589 --> 01:29:41,027
that it's real Monday
morning quarterbacking
1960
01:29:41,071 --> 01:29:45,075
to look back on the
past and say, those
1961
01:29:45,118 --> 01:29:46,685
people shouldn't have
done that, they were
1962
01:29:46,729 --> 01:29:49,993
not nice people, I think
instead the way to think
1963
01:29:50,036 --> 01:29:53,431
about the past had its own
principles and rules
1964
01:29:53,475 --> 01:29:55,215
and it's own
challenges and fears
1965
01:29:55,259 --> 01:30:00,482
One has to say why?
Why did they do that?
1966
01:30:00,525 --> 01:30:03,093
What was it that
lead them to make the
1967
01:30:03,136 --> 01:30:05,965
decisions they made, what
can we learn from what
1968
01:30:06,009 --> 01:30:08,054
they did and what
they thought and
1969
01:30:08,098 --> 01:30:11,754
what they said about what
they did, all of that
1970
01:30:11,797 --> 01:30:14,060
is part of what
we call history
1971
01:30:14,104 --> 01:30:18,630
and it's much more helpful
I think to us now,
1972
01:30:18,674 --> 01:30:21,938
looking at the future
were looking forward to
1973
01:30:21,981 --> 01:30:25,768
to try to understand what
happened not simply
1974
01:30:25,811 --> 01:30:27,073
to condemn them
out of hand and
1975
01:30:27,117 --> 01:30:30,337
say, well we wouldn't have
done that were
1976
01:30:30,381 --> 01:30:31,861
better people
than that
1977
01:30:31,904 --> 01:30:35,473
Would we not have?
What would we have done?
1978
01:30:45,657 --> 01:30:47,572
They're are really
two applications
1979
01:30:47,616 --> 01:30:50,053
for nuclear energy,
one of course is atomic
1980
01:30:50,096 --> 01:30:52,664
bombs or Hydrogen bombs,
but the second is
1981
01:30:52,708 --> 01:30:54,884
power production
you can produce a whole
1982
01:30:54,927 --> 01:30:57,930
lot of power that you can
use to drive machines or
1983
01:30:57,974 --> 01:31:00,585
Industries, the electrical
industry for instance
1984
01:31:00,629 --> 01:31:03,414
with the nuclear energy,
It can also be used
1985
01:31:03,458 --> 01:31:07,853
for propulsive power & so
in the late 50's there was
1986
01:31:07,897 --> 01:31:10,029
a lot of interest at the
laboratory and developing
1987
01:31:10,073 --> 01:31:12,771
power systems and so
the laboratory inaugurated
1988
01:31:12,815 --> 01:31:15,557
what became project ROVER,
which was to use nuclear
1989
01:31:15,600 --> 01:31:17,602
power to drive
space rockets
1990
01:31:17,646 --> 01:31:19,778
for interstellar flight.
1991
01:31:19,822 --> 01:31:21,258
My grandfather was
getting tired of being
1992
01:31:21,301 --> 01:31:23,086
on the weapons side
and he was given the
1993
01:31:23,129 --> 01:31:25,392
ability to rise a little
further up, start get a
1994
01:31:25,436 --> 01:31:27,569
little more of the culture
of the lab that was
1995
01:31:27,612 --> 01:31:30,267
when the Rover project
started coming on.
1996
01:31:30,310 --> 01:31:34,489
The moon, closest
neighbor to earth,
1997
01:31:34,532 --> 01:31:35,794
presently the
focus of man's
1998
01:31:35,838 --> 01:31:38,971
greatest scientific
adventure, landing men
1999
01:31:39,015 --> 01:31:40,756
on the moon will be a
truly great
2000
01:31:40,799 --> 01:31:42,409
achievement but only
2001
01:31:42,453 --> 01:31:46,283
the beginning of a new era
in space exploration,
2002
01:31:46,326 --> 01:31:49,242
no one can predict the
exact missions that will
2003
01:31:49,286 --> 01:31:52,724
follow in the years and
decades ahead, but the
2004
01:31:52,768 --> 01:31:54,900
most exciting
possibilities will require the
2005
01:31:54,944 --> 01:31:57,337
acceleration and
deceleration of very
2006
01:31:57,381 --> 01:32:01,298
heavy loads nuclear
rockets when perfected,
2007
01:32:01,341 --> 01:32:02,647
can provide the
2008
01:32:02,691 --> 01:32:06,912
same propulsion energy,
with less overall weight
2009
01:32:06,956 --> 01:32:11,482
they will expand our
ability to explore space
2010
01:32:11,526 --> 01:32:13,702
this is the story.
2011
01:32:17,793 --> 01:32:21,927
During the space
race in the 60s and early
2012
01:32:21,971 --> 01:32:25,322
70's through Dr Schreiber's
work at Los Alamos a
2013
01:32:25,365 --> 01:32:27,933
tremendous amount of work
was done to develop
2014
01:32:27,977 --> 01:32:30,066
these nuclear thermal
rockets and they were
2015
01:32:30,109 --> 01:32:32,198
almost ready to go, if
they're had been a Mars
2016
01:32:32,242 --> 01:32:34,113
mission, I have a great
degree of
2017
01:32:34,157 --> 01:32:35,941
confidence that
they would
2018
01:32:35,985 --> 01:32:38,117
have been involved in
that architecture.
2019
01:32:38,161 --> 01:32:43,383
In early '55
when Darol who was then
2020
01:32:43,427 --> 01:32:45,864
the associate Director
came around one evening
2021
01:32:45,908 --> 01:32:48,388
and says how would you
like to get together a
2022
01:32:48,432 --> 01:32:51,304
small group to see if
you can build a nuclear
2023
01:32:51,348 --> 01:32:53,176
rocket, we'll I knew
nothing about nuclear
2024
01:32:53,219 --> 01:32:56,048
rockets I knew there
had been a
2025
01:32:56,092 --> 01:32:57,180
study committee set up
2026
01:32:57,223 --> 01:32:59,399
and I even sat in on a
few of those,
2027
01:32:59,443 --> 01:33:01,793
frankly, I didn't think
the thing could be made
2028
01:33:01,837 --> 01:33:03,708
to work at the time, but
I said sure
2029
01:33:03,752 --> 01:33:05,754
I'll give it a whirl.
2030
01:33:09,148 --> 01:33:10,454
We tend to live
in a world that's
2031
01:33:10,497 --> 01:33:12,369
dominated by energy that's
available from
2032
01:33:12,412 --> 01:33:14,458
the Sun, most of
2033
01:33:14,501 --> 01:33:17,156
our chemical energy comes
indirectly from the Sun,
2034
01:33:17,200 --> 01:33:20,986
our wind power, solar
power come from the Sun
2035
01:33:21,030 --> 01:33:24,163
when we burn coal we're
burning the remains
2036
01:33:24,207 --> 01:33:27,340
of plants that grew
from photosynthesis
2037
01:33:27,384 --> 01:33:28,559
millions of
2038
01:33:28,603 --> 01:33:30,822
years ago, but were still
using an energy
2039
01:33:30,866 --> 01:33:32,955
source thats
dependent on the sun.
2040
01:33:32,998 --> 01:33:36,132
Nothing humans
have discovered up into
2041
01:33:36,175 --> 01:33:40,615
this point can match the
energy density contained
2042
01:33:40,658 --> 01:33:47,230
in the binding of nucleons
the the atomic energy
2043
01:33:47,273 --> 01:33:50,973
locked in the nucleus
of literally all of the
2044
01:33:51,016 --> 01:33:52,496
atoms around us.
2045
01:33:52,539 --> 01:33:54,933
Why is the nuclear
rocket so much better
2046
01:33:54,977 --> 01:33:57,501
than the chemical
rocket? It's lightweight,
2047
01:33:57,544 --> 01:34:01,505
high-velocity exhaust will
use propellant about
2048
01:34:01,548 --> 01:34:05,248
twice as efficiently
as chemical rockets.
2049
01:34:09,208 --> 01:34:12,429
The less material
you have to take up in
2050
01:34:12,472 --> 01:34:14,866
the form of traditional
chemical propulsion the
2051
01:34:14,910 --> 01:34:17,390
farther you can go,
the less expensive,
2052
01:34:17,434 --> 01:34:21,394
and for some applications
nuclear power
2053
01:34:21,438 --> 01:34:24,223
is all we've got
basically, deep space
2054
01:34:24,267 --> 01:34:26,704
missions traditionally
rely on a technology
2055
01:34:26,748 --> 01:34:28,010
known as an
2056
01:34:28,053 --> 01:34:30,403
RTG or Radioisotope
Thermoelectric Generator,
2057
01:34:30,447 --> 01:34:34,407
and those have
powered our deep space
2058
01:34:34,451 --> 01:34:38,281
probes, our Pioneer, our
Voyager, the Mars Curiosity
2059
01:34:38,324 --> 01:34:41,458
Rover for example
has a very large
2060
01:34:41,501 --> 01:34:44,026
Radioisotope
Thermoelectric Generators
2061
01:34:44,069 --> 01:34:46,985
on-board, but if were
going to go and were going
2062
01:34:47,029 --> 01:34:49,205
to take humans and were
going to go farther
2063
01:34:49,248 --> 01:34:52,077
with more payload,
we need to improve the
2064
01:34:52,121 --> 01:34:54,950
technology, solar and
chemical while they are
2065
01:34:54,993 --> 01:34:57,822
good technologies for
certain places,
2066
01:34:57,866 --> 01:34:59,084
the farther
2067
01:34:59,128 --> 01:35:00,738
you get away the less
effective or not
2068
01:35:00,782 --> 01:35:04,611
effective at
all, they become.
2069
01:35:14,447 --> 01:35:18,408
We were given
any amount of money
2070
01:35:18,451 --> 01:35:21,890
that we wanted and
I was asked well how much
2071
01:35:21,933 --> 01:35:24,283
money will it take for
construction to build
2072
01:35:24,327 --> 01:35:25,720
a test site and build
any additional
2073
01:35:25,763 --> 01:35:27,286
structures we needed
2074
01:35:27,330 --> 01:35:31,160
here and I guessed maybe
10 million, and Norris
2075
01:35:31,203 --> 01:35:33,640
said you really don't
know so let's
2076
01:35:33,684 --> 01:35:35,512
ask for 15, Louie
2077
01:35:35,555 --> 01:35:38,254
Strauss says we'll let's
put you down for 25
2078
01:35:38,297 --> 01:35:40,691
million and that ought
to run you for awhile,
2079
01:35:40,735 --> 01:35:44,782
so different from now that
it seems unreal and
2080
01:35:44,826 --> 01:35:46,915
finally it was
resolved yes
2081
01:35:46,958 --> 01:35:48,264
indeed we would go
2082
01:35:48,307 --> 01:35:52,007
we LASL would go ahead
with the nuclear rocket
2083
01:35:52,050 --> 01:35:55,053
this was all done in
complete secrecy
2084
01:35:55,097 --> 01:35:56,402
even the fact
2085
01:35:56,446 --> 01:36:00,755
the program was going was
a secret, It was January
2086
01:36:00,798 --> 01:36:05,150
of '57 before we
really got going.
2087
01:36:05,194 --> 01:36:07,849
It was pursued
simultaneously with
2088
01:36:07,892 --> 01:36:09,676
other elements of
Kennedy's vision
2089
01:36:09,720 --> 01:36:10,982
for space which
2090
01:36:11,026 --> 01:36:13,071
included putting a person
on the moon, some of
2091
01:36:13,115 --> 01:36:16,031
this was motivated
by the space race with
2092
01:36:16,074 --> 01:36:18,642
the Soviet Union, some of
it was motivated by
2093
01:36:18,685 --> 01:36:23,299
Kennedy's vision for
a technocracy a society
2094
01:36:23,342 --> 01:36:26,519
that was really you know
developed on a firm
2095
01:36:26,563 --> 01:36:29,827
foundation of science
and technology.
2096
01:36:38,662 --> 01:36:40,446
The purpose of
President Kennedy's visit
2097
01:36:40,490 --> 01:36:42,579
to the Los Alamos
Scientific Laboratory
2098
01:36:42,622 --> 01:36:43,928
was a briefing
2099
01:36:43,972 --> 01:36:46,670
on the details of project
ROVER the laboratories
2100
01:36:46,713 --> 01:36:49,194
program to develop
nuclear rocket engines for
2101
01:36:49,238 --> 01:36:53,242
space travel President
John F Kennedy the first
2102
01:36:53,285 --> 01:36:55,548
President of the United
States to visit Los Alamos
2103
01:36:55,592 --> 01:36:59,552
Scientific Laboratory has
arrived, Dr Norris E
2104
01:36:59,596 --> 01:37:02,251
Bradbury Laboratory,
Director Dr Raemer
2105
01:37:02,294 --> 01:37:03,730
Schreiber, Associate
2106
01:37:03,774 --> 01:37:06,995
Director, Mr Charles C.
Campbell, AEC manager of the
2107
01:37:07,038 --> 01:37:09,301
Los Alamos area office
and other officials
2108
01:37:09,345 --> 01:37:11,608
met the visitors as
they arrived.
2109
01:37:11,651 --> 01:37:14,132
Grandpa had a little
of a downside that
2110
01:37:14,176 --> 01:37:16,569
Bradbury and President
Kennedy and a
2111
01:37:16,613 --> 01:37:17,744
couple others talking
2112
01:37:17,788 --> 01:37:19,442
about budget it ended up
rather than a big
2113
01:37:19,485 --> 01:37:21,139
presentation and ended up
being, okay
2114
01:37:21,183 --> 01:37:22,619
here's the rocket
2115
01:37:22,662 --> 01:37:24,360
here's what it does,
here's how we do it,
2116
01:37:24,403 --> 01:37:27,493
and a quick overview and
then the next thing you
2117
01:37:27,537 --> 01:37:29,800
know President Kennedys
heading out the door
2118
01:37:29,844 --> 01:37:31,062
waving to everyone & he's
gone and
2119
01:37:31,106 --> 01:37:33,064
thats the end of it
2120
01:37:33,108 --> 01:37:34,587
The President spent
approximately an hour
2121
01:37:34,631 --> 01:37:36,198
in the ROVER briefing
and meeting
2122
01:37:36,241 --> 01:37:37,590
the staff at the
2123
01:37:37,634 --> 01:37:40,071
laboratory here President
Kennedy and Dr Bradbury
2124
01:37:40,115 --> 01:37:41,856
leave the classified
area to pose
2125
01:37:41,899 --> 01:37:43,770
for the photographers.
2126
01:37:56,783 --> 01:37:59,569
It was at the AEC's
Los Alamos Scientific
2127
01:37:59,612 --> 01:38:02,789
Laboratory high in the
mountains of New Mexico
2128
01:38:02,833 --> 01:38:06,793
that the first steps were
taken, here in the mid
2129
01:38:06,837 --> 01:38:10,928
50's scientists set about
to determine if nuclear
2130
01:38:10,972 --> 01:38:12,887
energy really
could be used to
2131
01:38:12,930 --> 01:38:15,628
provide rocket propulsion.
2132
01:38:15,672 --> 01:38:18,283
I talked
Norris into setting it
2133
01:38:18,327 --> 01:38:20,764
up as a division so they
agreed to form a
2134
01:38:20,807 --> 01:38:22,722
division and I bummed
2135
01:38:22,766 --> 01:38:27,162
people from W Division and
anyplace else that seemed
2136
01:38:27,205 --> 01:38:29,599
to be interested in this
by that fall I think
2137
01:38:29,642 --> 01:38:33,342
we had about fifty people
at work, and then we
2138
01:38:33,385 --> 01:38:35,648
had to go find a place
to live, I stayed down at
2139
01:38:35,692 --> 01:38:39,087
Parjito for quite awhile
and I even had my
2140
01:38:39,130 --> 01:38:40,610
headquarters there and
we had people scattered
2141
01:38:40,653 --> 01:38:42,655
all over the place, and
then we finally laid
2142
01:38:42,699 --> 01:38:46,181
hands on TA46 which is
out on the Pajarito
2143
01:38:46,224 --> 01:38:47,878
Road and that
2144
01:38:47,922 --> 01:38:49,967
was our headquarters well
throughout the duration
2145
01:38:50,011 --> 01:38:52,230
of the so called
ROVER program.
2146
01:38:52,274 --> 01:38:54,058
They would test
the reactor concepts
2147
01:38:54,102 --> 01:38:55,886
at Los Alamos they would
do a lot of
2148
01:38:55,930 --> 01:38:57,105
development of the
2149
01:38:57,148 --> 01:39:00,021
test reactors using a
number of critical
2150
01:39:00,064 --> 01:39:03,154
assembly stations that
they assembled at
2151
01:39:03,198 --> 01:39:05,330
the Parijito site and
2152
01:39:05,374 --> 01:39:07,811
Raemer Schreiber lead this
effort at Los Alamos
2153
01:39:07,854 --> 01:39:12,033
to develop these reactors
for use in Project KIWI.
2154
01:39:12,076 --> 01:39:13,512
We had to
start from scratch
2155
01:39:13,556 --> 01:39:15,950
essentially saying how
would we test
2156
01:39:15,993 --> 01:39:17,516
all these reactors,
2157
01:39:17,560 --> 01:39:20,345
the normal way of doing
reactor testing is to
2158
01:39:20,389 --> 01:39:23,044
put 'em inside a great
big concrete vault
2159
01:39:23,087 --> 01:39:26,177
so if something goes wrong
why we had some
2160
01:39:26,221 --> 01:39:28,266
protection, but when
you're spewing
2161
01:39:28,310 --> 01:39:31,313
out enormous quantities
of Hydrogen or other
2162
01:39:31,356 --> 01:39:32,879
hot gases why
that isn't a very
2163
01:39:32,923 --> 01:39:36,057
practical system and so
the decision was made
2164
01:39:36,100 --> 01:39:38,059
that we turn
things around the
2165
01:39:38,102 --> 01:39:41,105
controls and the
instrumentation would
2166
01:39:41,149 --> 01:39:44,369
be inside the concrete
block house and the
2167
01:39:44,413 --> 01:39:47,198
people would be well
removed from there at a
2168
01:39:47,242 --> 01:39:50,245
separate control area,
and we also
2169
01:39:50,288 --> 01:39:53,378
selected the Jackass
Flats area for
2170
01:39:53,422 --> 01:39:56,555
this test site
for this testing.
2171
01:39:56,599 --> 01:39:58,644
If you turn one
of these reactors on
2172
01:39:58,688 --> 01:40:01,125
your going from liquid
hydrogen temperatures to
2173
01:40:01,169 --> 01:40:04,737
thousands of degrees
very quickly and so
2174
01:40:04,781 --> 01:40:06,826
they were faced
with these enormous
2175
01:40:06,870 --> 01:40:10,047
materials challenges, KIWI
was really designed to
2176
01:40:10,091 --> 01:40:12,571
solve some of
those problems
2177
01:40:12,615 --> 01:40:15,400
and there are number of
reactors in the KIWI
2178
01:40:15,444 --> 01:40:16,749
series that progressed
from essentially
2179
01:40:16,793 --> 01:40:19,665
zero power, which is what
they would be able to
2180
01:40:19,709 --> 01:40:21,928
test at the Parjito
site in Los Alamos,
2181
01:40:21,972 --> 01:40:25,062
all the way up to powered
versions that that ran at,
2182
01:40:25,106 --> 01:40:27,325
you know hundreds
of kilowatts,
2183
01:40:27,369 --> 01:40:28,761
hundreds of megawatts.
2184
01:40:28,805 --> 01:40:32,983
The technology
that Dr Schreiber promoted
2185
01:40:33,027 --> 01:40:36,117
was a technology
known as a nuclear
2186
01:40:36,160 --> 01:40:38,728
thermal rocket and
basically what this is
2187
01:40:38,771 --> 01:40:42,253
is using a reactor
is a big heat source, and
2188
01:40:42,297 --> 01:40:45,561
then you take a gas like
hydrogen, you compress it
2189
01:40:45,604 --> 01:40:48,259
and force it through
this nuclear reactor
2190
01:40:48,303 --> 01:40:50,261
and the nuclear reactor
transfers heat it
2191
01:40:50,305 --> 01:40:53,308
expands and it exits
the nozzle of the rocket
2192
01:40:53,351 --> 01:40:55,962
at Incredibly
high-velocity.
2193
01:40:56,006 --> 01:40:58,487
It was a very
interesting program in
2194
01:40:58,530 --> 01:41:00,532
that nobody had done
anything of this general
2195
01:41:00,576 --> 01:41:03,622
nature before, we had to
be extremely careful to
2196
01:41:03,666 --> 01:41:06,538
test everything we
could without actually
2197
01:41:06,582 --> 01:41:09,367
firing up the reactor,
when they decided they
2198
01:41:09,411 --> 01:41:10,934
wanted something
like this, we were
2199
01:41:10,977 --> 01:41:13,589
under very heavy pressure
to move as rapidly as
2200
01:41:13,632 --> 01:41:15,460
possible, the
Russians had put up
2201
01:41:15,504 --> 01:41:19,638
Sputnik in the fall of '57
I believe, and the
2202
01:41:19,682 --> 01:41:21,597
United States wasn't
doing too well in
2203
01:41:21,640 --> 01:41:25,427
regard to similar exploits
and the Atlas Missile
2204
01:41:25,470 --> 01:41:26,689
which had been
under development
2205
01:41:26,732 --> 01:41:29,735
for quite a few years,
chemical rocket, was
2206
01:41:29,779 --> 01:41:32,782
having its problems,
so in between
2207
01:41:32,825 --> 01:41:36,090
doing things here at the
laboratory, I was always
2208
01:41:36,133 --> 01:41:37,656
rushing back to a
congressional
2209
01:41:37,700 --> 01:41:38,962
hearing to assure
2210
01:41:39,005 --> 01:41:42,139
Senator Anderson and the
other eager supporters
2211
01:41:42,183 --> 01:41:44,141
of the ROVER program
that we were working
2212
01:41:44,185 --> 01:41:45,621
just as hard as we could
and no we didn't
2213
01:41:45,664 --> 01:41:47,144
need anymore money,
all we needed was to
2214
01:41:47,188 --> 01:41:49,146
solve a few
technical problems.
2215
01:41:49,190 --> 01:41:52,454
With KIWI he spent
so much time in
2216
01:41:52,497 --> 01:41:56,284
Washington D.C., I think
he probably was
2217
01:41:56,327 --> 01:41:58,242
home half of every
2218
01:41:58,286 --> 01:42:00,636
month and traveling the
rest of the time,
2219
01:42:00,679 --> 01:42:03,595
that was a part of that
project he did not like
2220
01:42:03,639 --> 01:42:05,380
and that was all the
politicking that had
2221
01:42:05,423 --> 01:42:07,295
to be done during that
period of time, and
2222
01:42:07,338 --> 01:42:08,992
I was in high school
2223
01:42:09,035 --> 01:42:12,300
for lot of that, he just
wasn't there, when he was
2224
01:42:12,343 --> 01:42:15,433
he was distracted and we
we're all
2225
01:42:15,477 --> 01:42:16,608
being just a little
2226
01:42:16,652 --> 01:42:18,828
careful around him
because he was very
2227
01:42:18,871 --> 01:42:22,527
tired, he didn't
travel well.
2228
01:42:22,571 --> 01:42:25,356
Meantime we
had designed a KIWI B,
2229
01:42:25,400 --> 01:42:30,013
which was looking much
more like a rocket engine
2230
01:42:30,056 --> 01:42:33,669
and had a sizeable nozzle
on it and I'd been getting
2231
01:42:33,712 --> 01:42:35,932
help from Aerojet
and Rocketdyne on
2232
01:42:35,975 --> 01:42:39,805
pumps and nozzle design
and fabrication, and
2233
01:42:39,849 --> 01:42:42,330
KIWI B then was run
with liquid hydrogen
2234
01:42:42,373 --> 01:42:46,595
being pumped in and
vaporized as it went
2235
01:42:46,638 --> 01:42:49,511
into the reactor,
and a couple things
2236
01:42:49,554 --> 01:42:52,427
didn't go too smoothly
for awhile because we
2237
01:42:52,470 --> 01:42:56,518
tried to run two or
three reactors & we would
2238
01:42:56,561 --> 01:42:59,347
get going pretty well and
then pieces would start
2239
01:42:59,390 --> 01:43:01,523
flying out the nozzle,
which isn't exactly the
2240
01:43:01,566 --> 01:43:04,308
proper behavior for a
nuclear rocket, supposed
2241
01:43:04,352 --> 01:43:08,443
to run for 20 to 25
minutes, to make a long
2242
01:43:08,486 --> 01:43:10,706
story short it was finally
found out that we had
2243
01:43:10,749 --> 01:43:14,536
not properly considered
all of the aerodynamic
2244
01:43:14,579 --> 01:43:18,104
forces that we're
operating on the fuel
2245
01:43:18,148 --> 01:43:21,673
element bundles In blowing
this enormous stream of
2246
01:43:21,717 --> 01:43:24,415
Hydrogen through there,
and so it took a number
2247
01:43:24,459 --> 01:43:28,898
of tests and rather
strenuous redesign work
2248
01:43:28,941 --> 01:43:32,249
under extreme pressure
out of Washington to get
2249
01:43:32,293 --> 01:43:34,904
a reactor which would
indeed hold itself
2250
01:43:34,947 --> 01:43:37,689
together and run for any
extended period of time.
2251
01:43:37,733 --> 01:43:40,431
We'll we finally solved
these problems and
2252
01:43:40,475 --> 01:43:44,609
we ran several reactors
for periods of up
2253
01:43:44,653 --> 01:43:48,744
15-20 minutes, the mission
was originally thought to
2254
01:43:48,787 --> 01:43:52,617
require a 10 minute burn
by reactor but in the
2255
01:43:52,661 --> 01:43:55,707
meantime the targets
we're set higher and
2256
01:43:55,751 --> 01:43:59,755
higher and we would get a
reactor ready for
2257
01:43:59,798 --> 01:44:02,323
testing and for
someone decided that
2258
01:44:02,366 --> 01:44:05,804
wasn't really quite good
enough and so we had
2259
01:44:05,848 --> 01:44:08,372
to start redesigning
and replanning for
2260
01:44:08,416 --> 01:44:12,202
even higher performance,
longer times, ability
2261
01:44:12,246 --> 01:44:13,638
to restart in space and
2262
01:44:13,682 --> 01:44:15,031
all those sorts of things,
2263
01:44:15,074 --> 01:44:18,730
The Phoebus phase
was actually the attempt
2264
01:44:18,774 --> 01:44:22,386
to build power plant
scale reactors that could
2265
01:44:22,430 --> 01:44:25,955
actually be used in
nuclear rockets, and
2266
01:44:25,998 --> 01:44:29,524
Phoebus really consisted
of three large
2267
01:44:29,567 --> 01:44:32,788
scale reactors that were
tested out at the Nevada
2268
01:44:32,831 --> 01:44:36,008
test site and
they incorporated
2269
01:44:36,052 --> 01:44:39,055
some enormous power
densities, if you think
2270
01:44:39,098 --> 01:44:41,884
of a 2 liter bottle, if
you think of that volume
2271
01:44:41,927 --> 01:44:45,453
being used to generate 10
million watts that
2272
01:44:45,496 --> 01:44:48,412
was the power density
that was found in the
2273
01:44:48,456 --> 01:44:51,328
highest power test with
the Phoebus reactors,
2274
01:44:51,372 --> 01:44:53,722
even by todays
standards have really not
2275
01:44:53,765 --> 01:44:56,072
been and not been matched.
2276
01:45:02,948 --> 01:45:06,474
By '69 NASA
who had taken over and
2277
01:45:06,517 --> 01:45:09,215
become a great empire
in itself, finally
2278
01:45:09,259 --> 01:45:12,044
decided that they we're
not go for a manned man
2279
01:45:12,088 --> 01:45:14,786
in space beyond the moon
2280
01:45:14,830 --> 01:45:17,354
landing, so the ROVER
program was phased out,
2281
01:45:17,398 --> 01:45:19,443
we'll we did
have one triumph
2282
01:45:19,487 --> 01:45:21,619
before that, technical
triumph at least, in that
2283
01:45:21,663 --> 01:45:23,578
we ran the
Phoebus 2 reactor at
2284
01:45:23,621 --> 01:45:26,668
4000 megawatts, which I
think was the world
2285
01:45:26,711 --> 01:45:29,061
record at that time,
which may still stand
2286
01:45:29,105 --> 01:45:32,282
for a total power out of
a single reactor which
2287
01:45:32,326 --> 01:45:35,198
translates into
about a 200,000
2288
01:45:35,241 --> 01:45:37,505
pound thrust, which is
nothing to be sneered at.
2289
01:45:37,548 --> 01:45:40,943
That was the apex
of of work on Project
2290
01:45:40,986 --> 01:45:43,772
Rover that was
the highest powers,
2291
01:45:43,815 --> 01:45:45,861
the highest power
densities, the longest
2292
01:45:45,904 --> 01:45:48,516
duration tests, the
largest reactors,
2293
01:45:48,559 --> 01:45:51,083
and it demonstrated a high
level of technological
2294
01:45:51,127 --> 01:45:52,433
readiness to move
2295
01:45:52,476 --> 01:45:55,261
these systems into
practical nuclear rocketry.
2296
01:45:55,305 --> 01:45:59,396
In the summer
'61 Daryl Froman decided
2297
01:45:59,440 --> 01:46:02,878
that he was going to
retire and so there
2298
01:46:02,921 --> 01:46:05,837
was a search put on for an
associate technical
2299
01:46:05,881 --> 01:46:08,144
director to replace
him, I was
2300
01:46:08,187 --> 01:46:12,757
selected to be that person
and moved up to the 4th
2301
01:46:12,801 --> 01:46:16,718
floor in January of '62.
2302
01:46:16,761 --> 01:46:19,068
The reason I have talked
about the ROVER program
2303
01:46:19,111 --> 01:46:20,417
so extensively is that
2304
01:46:20,461 --> 01:46:23,159
I continued to have the
major responsibility for
2305
01:46:23,202 --> 01:46:24,726
that as far as the
2306
01:46:24,769 --> 01:46:26,641
division of work between
Norris and myself was
2307
01:46:26,684 --> 01:46:28,686
concerned, my job there
2308
01:46:28,730 --> 01:46:32,124
was to keep on top of
the number of different
2309
01:46:32,168 --> 01:46:34,736
programs and take care of
2310
01:46:34,779 --> 01:46:36,781
some of the
administrative chores,
2311
01:46:36,825 --> 01:46:40,655
it's very complicated
story if you start
2312
01:46:40,698 --> 01:46:42,221
writing a job description
2313
01:46:42,265 --> 01:46:45,747
to 5 or 6 pages
I suspect.
2314
01:46:45,790 --> 01:46:48,750
Work at the laboratory
continued we had the
2315
01:46:48,793 --> 01:46:50,926
ROVER program
phased out but
2316
01:46:50,969 --> 01:46:53,668
by the time that was
phasing out there were
2317
01:46:53,711 --> 01:46:58,934
other programs coming in.
And then in 1970,
2318
01:46:58,977 --> 01:47:02,938
Norris decided he was
going to retire and there
2319
01:47:02,981 --> 01:47:06,115
was a search for a
director, my hat
2320
01:47:06,158 --> 01:47:08,683
was in the ring for at
least a brief period of
2321
01:47:08,726 --> 01:47:11,468
time, the more I thought
about it the less
2322
01:47:11,512 --> 01:47:14,950
I felt at that age
I wanted to undertake the
2323
01:47:14,993 --> 01:47:20,129
job and furthermore,
I felt that the demands
2324
01:47:20,172 --> 01:47:24,481
particularly in field
of public relations in
2325
01:47:24,525 --> 01:47:27,179
Washington and in
spearheading the
2326
01:47:27,223 --> 01:47:28,572
weapons program was
2327
01:47:28,616 --> 01:47:30,269
something that I just
didn't want to get
2328
01:47:30,313 --> 01:47:33,359
involved in, of course
Harold Agnew came out as a
2329
01:47:33,403 --> 01:47:37,668
selection no surprise
to anyone I think and I
2330
01:47:37,712 --> 01:47:40,410
was given the job
of keeping University
2331
01:47:40,454 --> 01:47:42,934
of California happy and
I took over more and more
2332
01:47:42,978 --> 01:47:45,154
of the administrative
duties and so
2333
01:47:45,197 --> 01:47:48,679
from that time up
and including my time
2334
01:47:48,723 --> 01:47:52,727
before my retirement, I
had the responsibility for
2335
01:47:52,770 --> 01:47:57,558
the 11 departments I
think it was, in addition
2336
01:47:57,601 --> 01:47:59,951
to serving as the
number two man to the
2337
01:47:59,995 --> 01:48:03,041
director, once the
decisions we're made,
2338
01:48:03,085 --> 01:48:04,826
it was my job to
see to that they were
2339
01:48:04,869 --> 01:48:07,132
carried out, meaning
while that is fine once
2340
01:48:07,176 --> 01:48:09,265
you start slowing down,
it's very difficult
2341
01:48:09,308 --> 01:48:10,745
to recognize
2342
01:48:10,788 --> 01:48:12,660
you got to run fast and
can't keep up with the
2343
01:48:12,703 --> 01:48:15,750
younger people.
My retirement was in
2344
01:48:15,793 --> 01:48:20,319
December of '74 and it
was about that time also
2345
01:48:20,363 --> 01:48:24,193
that I got contacted by
Jack Campbell, former
2346
01:48:24,236 --> 01:48:26,282
Governor Campbell, I
guess is the more polite
2347
01:48:26,325 --> 01:48:29,633
way of putting it, to see
if I would be interested
2348
01:48:29,677 --> 01:48:32,723
in going on to the
energy resources board.
2349
01:48:32,767 --> 01:48:34,986
After my
grandfather retired he
2350
01:48:35,030 --> 01:48:37,554
still very much involved
with the lab, very much
2351
01:48:37,598 --> 01:48:38,860
involved with the
2352
01:48:38,903 --> 01:48:40,949
town, he was President
American Nuclear Society
2353
01:48:40,992 --> 01:48:43,081
he was very much
involved with a
2354
01:48:43,125 --> 01:48:45,040
lot of the
nonproliferation.
2355
01:48:45,083 --> 01:48:48,913
My dad passed
away in '98 when he was 88
2356
01:48:48,957 --> 01:48:52,221
we called Roger Meade
to do the details of the
2357
01:48:52,264 --> 01:48:54,876
memorial service which
was held 3 days later
2358
01:48:54,919 --> 01:48:57,705
at Fuller Lodge, to put
together such a marvelous
2359
01:48:57,748 --> 01:48:59,750
celebration of my dads
life, Roger was
2360
01:48:59,794 --> 01:49:02,405
just invaluable.
2361
01:49:06,235 --> 01:49:09,107
Approximately 6000
people jammed the football
2362
01:49:09,151 --> 01:49:11,240
field to welcome
the President.
2363
01:49:14,330 --> 01:49:16,680
And lastly I
think this country has
2364
01:49:16,724 --> 01:49:19,291
performed its great
function because as
2365
01:49:19,335 --> 01:49:20,597
Senator Anderson
2366
01:49:20,641 --> 01:49:23,600
has said, it's people
have had brains and we
2367
01:49:23,644 --> 01:49:25,167
have appreciated
the cult of
2368
01:49:25,210 --> 01:49:27,691
excellence and we
have developed that
2369
01:49:27,735 --> 01:49:31,260
talent in a way which is
served our country and
2370
01:49:31,303 --> 01:49:33,131
served mankind and
2371
01:49:33,175 --> 01:49:36,308
there are no group of
people in this country,
2372
01:49:36,352 --> 01:49:38,441
whose record over the last
2373
01:49:38,484 --> 01:49:42,053
20 years has been more
preeminent in the service
2374
01:49:42,097 --> 01:49:43,751
of their country
than all of
2375
01:49:43,794 --> 01:49:47,842
you here in this small
community in New Mexico.
2376
01:49:47,885 --> 01:49:51,106
We want to express our
thanks to you, its not
2377
01:49:51,149 --> 01:49:53,412
merely what was
done during
2378
01:49:53,456 --> 01:49:55,763
the days of the second
war, but what is been
2379
01:49:55,806 --> 01:49:57,982
done since then,
not only in
2380
01:49:58,026 --> 01:50:01,072
developing weapons of
destruction which by
2381
01:50:01,116 --> 01:50:03,684
and irony of fate
help maintain
2382
01:50:03,727 --> 01:50:06,904
the peace and freedom,
but also in medicine,
2383
01:50:06,948 --> 01:50:09,690
and in space and
all the other
2384
01:50:09,733 --> 01:50:12,693
related fields which
can mean so much to
2385
01:50:12,736 --> 01:50:15,043
mankind if we
can maintain
2386
01:50:15,086 --> 01:50:17,828
the peace and
protect our freedom.
2387
01:50:17,872 --> 01:50:21,136
I think Dr
Schreiber's legacy is a
2388
01:50:21,179 --> 01:50:23,268
very important one,
whether it was his work
2389
01:50:23,312 --> 01:50:26,358
with the Manhattan Project
or his work with nuclear
2390
01:50:26,402 --> 01:50:28,143
rockets I mean this is a
2391
01:50:28,186 --> 01:50:31,886
person who had this hand
in shaping the course
2392
01:50:31,929 --> 01:50:33,496
of human history.
2393
01:50:33,539 --> 01:50:35,063
The reason that
nuclear thermal rockets
2394
01:50:35,106 --> 01:50:36,455
are particularly
important at
2395
01:50:36,499 --> 01:50:39,720
this moment in history
is that NASA is finally,
2396
01:50:39,763 --> 01:50:41,852
seriously considering
a manned
2397
01:50:41,896 --> 01:50:44,812
Mars mission, any type of
Mars mission involves a
2398
01:50:44,855 --> 01:50:47,597
long trip being
constantly bathed
2399
01:50:47,641 --> 01:50:51,470
in Cosmic Rays and nuclear
thermal rockets provide a
2400
01:50:51,514 --> 01:50:52,907
way of to get from point A
2401
01:50:52,950 --> 01:50:55,039
to point B, in space far
faster for far less
2402
01:50:55,083 --> 01:50:57,999
fuel and we now know
that with modern material
2403
01:50:58,042 --> 01:50:59,827
science we can make
2404
01:50:59,870 --> 01:51:01,437
these far better than
there creators
2405
01:51:01,480 --> 01:51:02,960
ever imagined.
2406
01:51:03,004 --> 01:51:05,006
I think we can
have that conversation now
2407
01:51:05,049 --> 01:51:08,009
I think culturally
were able to appreciate
2408
01:51:08,052 --> 01:51:10,446
the benefits and the
risks of nuclear
2409
01:51:10,489 --> 01:51:12,840
technology, I think
we can competently
2410
01:51:12,883 --> 01:51:15,973
get back in the saddle
on a project like this,
2411
01:51:16,017 --> 01:51:18,715
we already have done
a lot of the
2412
01:51:18,759 --> 01:51:21,196
work necessary, this
program was wildly
2413
01:51:21,239 --> 01:51:23,938
successful according
to nuclear propulsion
2414
01:51:23,981 --> 01:51:27,202
folks at NASA, it was
it was essentially ready
2415
01:51:27,245 --> 01:51:29,900
to go and you can say,
well we can
2416
01:51:29,944 --> 01:51:32,163
leave those Curies in the
desert and it can all be
2417
01:51:32,207 --> 01:51:34,209
in vain, or we can take that
2418
01:51:34,252 --> 01:51:36,864
knowledge and essentially
use it and work
2419
01:51:36,907 --> 01:51:38,779
with it again.
2420
01:51:38,822 --> 01:51:40,955
We have climbed
the tallest peaks on
2421
01:51:40,998 --> 01:51:42,521
earth, we have explored
2422
01:51:42,565 --> 01:51:47,875
basically on the land
most places on the surface
2423
01:51:47,918 --> 01:51:49,398
of our planet,
2424
01:51:49,441 --> 01:51:52,183
but there is an infinite
universe out there and
2425
01:51:52,227 --> 01:51:55,883
hopefully using nuclear
technology including the
2426
01:51:55,926 --> 01:51:58,450
kind of reactor technology
that Dr Schreiber
2427
01:51:58,494 --> 01:52:00,888
was a driving force
2428
01:52:00,931 --> 01:52:07,503
at Los Alamos, that
technology, I have very
2429
01:52:07,546 --> 01:52:11,420
little doubt, will propel
us to the planets
2430
01:52:11,463 --> 01:52:14,771
...and beyond.
190699
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