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MALE (VOICEOVER): This program
is about unsolved mysteries.
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Whenever possible, the
actual family members
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00:00:09,543 --> 00:00:11,345
and police officials
have participated
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00:00:11,445 --> 00:00:12,980
in recreating the events.
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00:00:13,081 --> 00:00:15,283
What you are about to see
is not a news broadcast.
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00:00:20,954 --> 00:00:23,157
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): In
1884, one of the wealthiest men
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00:00:23,257 --> 00:00:26,860
in New Mexico built his wife the
finest house money could buy,
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00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:28,996
a glorious Victorian mansion.
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00:00:29,097 --> 00:00:31,899
But after the couple's
youngest daughter died,
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00:00:31,999 --> 00:00:35,035
the lady of the house turned
into a virtual recluse.
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00:00:35,136 --> 00:00:38,172
And a lot of folks say that her
spirit has haunted the mansion
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00:00:38,272 --> 00:00:40,274
for nearly a century.
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00:00:40,374 --> 00:00:42,210
Tonight, we'll take
you along as a team
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00:00:42,310 --> 00:00:46,013
of real life Ghostbusters tries
to flush the elusive ghost out
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00:00:46,114 --> 00:00:48,649
of hiding.
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00:00:48,749 --> 00:00:52,453
In March of 1988, the head of
a multimillion dollar drug ring
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00:00:52,553 --> 00:00:54,888
named John Roubas
was assassinated just
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00:00:54,988 --> 00:00:57,057
outside San Juan, Puerto Rico.
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Or was he?
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Authorities now suspect someone
else was murdered in his place,
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and that Roubas is
very much alive.
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Legend has it that
nearly 150 years ago,
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00:01:09,403 --> 00:01:11,572
wealthy citizens
in old Los Angeles
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00:01:11,672 --> 00:01:13,474
buried their riches
for safekeeping
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during the Mexican-American War.
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Is there still a fortune
in gold and jewels
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hidden in the shadows of
LA's downtown skyline?
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Also, a heartwarming update.
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Thanks to your calls,
a family has been
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reunited after 45 years apart.
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Joine me.
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Perhaps you may be able
to solve a mystery.
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[music playing]
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ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
This is the La Posada
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Hotel in Santa Fe, New Mexico.
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Nestled within its
Adobe walls is a
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100-year-old Victorian mansion.
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00:02:44,198 --> 00:02:45,999
Recently, that
mansion has become
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the focus of an unusual,
high tech investigation.
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No crime has been committed.
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00:02:56,043 --> 00:02:58,178
No one has been hurt.
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No one has disappeared.
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00:03:01,249 --> 00:03:02,416
It's important to
look at thresholds
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as soon as you walk in as well.
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ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
Believe it or not,
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this team of investigators
is looking for a ghost.
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So far, the
information we have
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regarding the La Posada Hotel--
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it appears to have all the
characteristics of what
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00:03:18,165 --> 00:03:23,237
is referred to as a classic
haunt, because of the history,
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00:03:23,337 --> 00:03:25,906
because of a variety of
different types of witnesses
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00:03:26,006 --> 00:03:27,975
who had this experience.
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00:03:28,075 --> 00:03:30,077
It certainly appears
to look that way,
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that it is a classic haunt.
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00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:33,947
We're trying to approach
it very unbiased
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without any expectations.
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So at this point,
we're not sure exactly
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00:03:39,253 --> 00:03:42,089
what we're going to find, or
what we're going to encounter.
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00:03:44,592 --> 00:03:46,093
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
If Christopher Chacone
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00:03:46,193 --> 00:03:48,228
and his team of real
life Ghostbusters
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do encounter a spirit
at the La Posada Hotel,
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00:03:51,432 --> 00:03:55,303
she probably answers to
the name Julius Stob.
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00:03:55,403 --> 00:03:57,605
Folks around here say
Julia has been haunting
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the place for nearly a century.
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00:04:02,943 --> 00:04:04,878
Julia came to Santa
Fe from Germany
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around 1870 to marry Abraham
Stobb, one of the wealthiest
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00:04:08,782 --> 00:04:11,352
men in New Mexico.
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00:04:11,452 --> 00:04:13,821
Abraham promised Judy he
would someday build her
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00:04:13,921 --> 00:04:15,689
the finest house
money could buy.
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00:04:18,659 --> 00:04:20,928
Mazel tov.
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ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
Seven children and 14 years
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later, the Stobbs
moved into Santa
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00:04:24,965 --> 00:04:27,134
Fe's first Victorian mansion.
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00:04:27,234 --> 00:04:28,902
Look at the beautiful
parlor that papa
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00:04:29,002 --> 00:04:31,939
has made mama with her
favorite flower in mind.
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00:04:32,039 --> 00:04:34,675
See the rose stained glass?
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00:04:34,775 --> 00:04:38,612
When Julia moved
into this house,
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she became the queen
of Santa Fe society.
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All major affairs
were held here.
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They entertained dignitaries
from the government,
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00:04:54,161 --> 00:04:57,731
President Rutherford
Hayes, General
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Sherman, Governor Wallace.
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Big parties were held here.
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00:05:03,036 --> 00:05:06,640
And one would think she
was a very happy woman.
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ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
In the new house,
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Julia and Abraham were blessed
with an eighth child, a girl.
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00:05:20,988 --> 00:05:23,557
But, tragically, the baby
would live only a short time.
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Abraham.
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I'm so sorry.
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ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
According to Betsy Sollitt,
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00:05:32,332 --> 00:05:37,571
Julia's joy turned
to sorrow overnight.
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00:05:37,671 --> 00:05:40,541
She was so distraught
over the child's death.
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And it's said that she didn't
eat or sleep for two weeks.
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And when she finally slept
and she awoke, and looked
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in the mirror, all of
the beautiful black hair
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on her head had turned
completely white.
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All of the grief
went into her hair.
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00:06:03,964 --> 00:06:05,399
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
According to legend,
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00:06:05,499 --> 00:06:07,568
Julia Stobb withdrew
from society,
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00:06:07,668 --> 00:06:11,338
and was rarely seen
outside her mansion.
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When Julia died
at the age of 52,
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she seemed far older
than her years.
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In 1936, the Stobb mansion
was acquired by the La Posada.
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Eventually, the modern
hotel was built around it.
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The front door of the mansion
is reached through the lobby.
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00:06:36,129 --> 00:06:37,898
And the Stobb home is
as elegant as ever.
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The rooms upstairs,
including Julia's bedroom,
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can be booked by hotel guests.
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And, Julia, over the
years has had a way
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of making her presence known.
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I think there
is something here.
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There's no doubt to me.
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Too many people,
including guests
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who know nothing about
the history of the place,
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say there is something.
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Whether it's a ghost, or whether
it's some sort of energy,
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I don't know.
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Built back in 1882, and
it's the first formal brick
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00:07:13,333 --> 00:07:14,668
building built in Santa Fe.
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00:07:14,768 --> 00:07:16,036
ROBERT STACK
(VOICEOVER): Chuck Barone
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00:07:16,136 --> 00:07:19,840
was a hardened skeptic until
1991, when he and a desk clerk
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00:07:19,940 --> 00:07:24,144
took several guests on an
impromptu tour of the hotel.
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00:07:24,244 --> 00:07:26,747
Even though Julia's
room was not occupied,
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00:07:26,847 --> 00:07:30,283
hotel policy required the
clerk to knock anyway.
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[knocking]
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WOMAN: I'm in here.
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I thought you said
nobody was in there.
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00:07:37,257 --> 00:07:40,728
Let me double check
at the front desk.
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00:07:40,828 --> 00:07:41,995
He went downstairs.
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00:07:42,095 --> 00:07:44,798
I stayed up with the guests.
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And nobody came
out the front door.
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It been several minutes.
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00:07:50,571 --> 00:07:53,440
And by then, anything
I was thinking about
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00:07:53,541 --> 00:07:56,109
may have passed,
because I figured
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there was a guest in the room.
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00:07:58,879 --> 00:08:00,113
[knocking]
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00:08:00,213 --> 00:08:01,882
Security.
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00:08:01,982 --> 00:08:03,416
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
Curiously, the clerk
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00:08:03,517 --> 00:08:07,087
had returned, confirming that
Julia's room was not booked.
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00:08:07,187 --> 00:08:09,456
Hello?
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00:08:09,557 --> 00:08:11,458
And so he knocked
on the door again.
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Nothing happened.
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00:08:12,459 --> 00:08:13,226
And we went in.
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00:08:13,326 --> 00:08:16,664
And the room was empty.
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00:08:16,764 --> 00:08:18,832
Nobody here.
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00:08:18,932 --> 00:08:23,003
The windows were
locked from the inside.
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00:08:23,103 --> 00:08:26,039
Nobody had come out the door.
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00:08:26,139 --> 00:08:28,542
And I really have no
explanation for it.
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00:08:31,311 --> 00:08:32,746
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
Around a year later,
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00:08:32,846 --> 00:08:35,883
Chuck's son John Barone, who
also worked as a security
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guard, had his own
weird encounter
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when he checked the men's
washroom at closing time.
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Security?
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Locking up for the evening.
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00:08:45,793 --> 00:08:48,629
It's time to go.
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00:08:48,729 --> 00:08:50,230
I looked in the mirror.
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00:08:50,330 --> 00:08:54,134
And there was a face,
like a reflection.
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00:08:54,234 --> 00:08:55,803
I felt a cold chill
come through me.
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And something told me,
it's time to leave.
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I left.
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I didn't turn off the lights.
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I didn't turn off
the hall lights.
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I didn't check the
female's restroom.
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00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,349
And I proceeded
out the back door.
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And I didn't come back.
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00:09:11,619 --> 00:09:13,687
I feel that it is real.
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There is no doubt in my mind,
because I saw someone standing
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there looking down at us.
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And before then, I
was not a believer.
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But once I saw her
there, I believe
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that she is present here.
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Could you turn the TV off?
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ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
This past June,
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00:09:38,045 --> 00:09:40,914
Ross Wisenhoffer and
Holly were in Santa Fe
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to attend a friend's wedding.
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Even though they stayed in
the room across the hall
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from Julia's, Ross and Holly had
never heard any of the stories.
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We shut the TV off.
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At that time, I was up.
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00:09:55,028 --> 00:09:56,263
And I was trying to
go back to sleep.
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00:09:56,363 --> 00:09:58,098
And my eyes were closed.
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00:09:58,198 --> 00:10:01,168
And at that time, I felt
something staring at me.
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I saw the white apparition.
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I put my head down.
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00:10:11,478 --> 00:10:13,814
And I'm like, my
gosh, this isn't
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00:10:13,914 --> 00:10:15,916
happening to me right now.
187
00:10:16,016 --> 00:10:19,219
And then I looked up
again for the second time.
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00:10:19,319 --> 00:10:21,221
And at that point, it started
to become more defined.
189
00:10:26,093 --> 00:10:28,061
I put my head back down.
190
00:10:28,161 --> 00:10:29,797
And when I looked
up the third time,
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00:10:29,897 --> 00:10:33,033
it definitely was
Julia standing there.
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00:10:33,133 --> 00:10:36,469
Ross, what is it?
193
00:10:36,569 --> 00:10:38,939
Ross, what's going on?
194
00:10:39,039 --> 00:10:40,407
What is it?
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00:10:40,507 --> 00:10:43,376
What are you doing?
196
00:10:43,476 --> 00:10:45,913
And at that point, I
jumped up out of bed,
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00:10:46,013 --> 00:10:46,814
flicked the lights on.
198
00:10:46,914 --> 00:10:48,048
And I said, we're out of here.
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00:10:48,148 --> 00:10:52,419
Within five minutes, we
were down at the front desk.
200
00:10:52,519 --> 00:10:53,987
I've never seen him like that.
201
00:10:54,087 --> 00:10:56,790
I've never seen him
scared, especially enough
202
00:10:56,890 --> 00:10:59,059
to have goosebumps.
203
00:10:59,159 --> 00:11:01,528
He was definitely
a skeptic before.
204
00:11:01,628 --> 00:11:07,667
And then once he saw this
happen, he was a believer.
205
00:11:07,768 --> 00:11:10,037
So I was quite surprised.
206
00:11:10,137 --> 00:11:12,305
So this was your room?
207
00:11:12,405 --> 00:11:13,941
Yes, it was.
208
00:11:14,041 --> 00:11:15,776
All right.
209
00:11:15,876 --> 00:11:17,945
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Just
two weeks later, Ross and Holly
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00:11:18,045 --> 00:11:21,148
were back at the La Posada to
talk to Christopher Chacone
211
00:11:21,248 --> 00:11:25,953
from the Office of Scientific
Investigation and Research.
212
00:11:26,053 --> 00:11:28,021
When had the image, was
it just getting thicker?
213
00:11:28,121 --> 00:11:29,322
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
At the hotel,
214
00:11:29,422 --> 00:11:31,591
Chacone's team of
Ghostbusters included
215
00:11:31,691 --> 00:11:36,396
a physician, a psychologist,
and an electrical engineer.
216
00:11:36,496 --> 00:11:38,498
It was getting more defined.
217
00:11:38,598 --> 00:11:41,601
Where would I be in
relationship to where you saw?
218
00:11:41,701 --> 00:11:42,870
ROBERT STACK
(VOICEOVER): Their goal--
219
00:11:42,970 --> 00:11:45,672
to determine whether the
hauntings here can be explained
220
00:11:45,773 --> 00:11:49,309
in scientific, rational terms.
221
00:11:49,409 --> 00:11:50,210
Closer.
222
00:11:50,310 --> 00:11:51,111
Closer?
223
00:11:51,211 --> 00:11:52,379
Yeah.
224
00:11:52,479 --> 00:11:53,847
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
Of the 800 investigations
225
00:11:53,947 --> 00:11:57,717
of poltergeist phenomena that
I've been on, 70% of them
226
00:11:57,818 --> 00:12:00,287
appear to be have rational
explanations for them.
227
00:12:00,387 --> 00:12:03,490
We have found,
definitively, answers.
228
00:12:03,590 --> 00:12:05,625
However, there's
another 30% which,
229
00:12:05,725 --> 00:12:09,096
apparently, we cannot find
a rational explanation for.
230
00:12:09,196 --> 00:12:11,398
They define the known laws of
nature and physics, at least
231
00:12:11,498 --> 00:12:13,867
as we know them today.
232
00:12:13,967 --> 00:12:15,836
It might remind you.
233
00:12:15,936 --> 00:12:17,805
Could you take a look
at that, and just
234
00:12:17,905 --> 00:12:20,908
tell me what comes to mind,
and what you can see in there?
235
00:12:21,008 --> 00:12:22,342
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
An important part
236
00:12:22,442 --> 00:12:25,678
of each investigation is
a psychological evaluation
237
00:12:25,779 --> 00:12:26,814
of the subjects.
238
00:12:26,914 --> 00:12:29,216
She's breaking bad
news, or bringing
239
00:12:29,316 --> 00:12:31,384
bad news, to the family.
240
00:12:31,484 --> 00:12:33,353
Pull your arm back toward
him as hard as you can.
241
00:12:33,453 --> 00:12:34,822
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
Next, the subjects
242
00:12:34,922 --> 00:12:36,790
undergo a physical
examination to eliminate
243
00:12:36,890 --> 00:12:41,261
any possible somatic
causes for the sighting.
244
00:12:41,361 --> 00:12:42,595
One of the cases
that come to mind
245
00:12:42,695 --> 00:12:46,133
is one situation where a woman
had a brain tumor pressing
246
00:12:46,233 --> 00:12:47,767
against a certain part
of her brain, which
247
00:12:47,868 --> 00:12:50,337
would cause these seizures.
248
00:12:50,437 --> 00:12:53,206
And it would create the
illusion, at least to her,
249
00:12:53,306 --> 00:12:55,275
that some type of entity
was coming and having
250
00:12:55,375 --> 00:12:56,543
physical contact with her.
251
00:12:59,579 --> 00:13:01,348
When we get to the aspect of
the case where we're looking
252
00:13:01,448 --> 00:13:06,486
into the environment , we begin
to take samples of the water,
253
00:13:06,586 --> 00:13:08,055
samples of the air.
254
00:13:08,155 --> 00:13:10,590
We take elements that the
individual would actually
255
00:13:10,690 --> 00:13:13,193
have physical contact with,
pieces of carpet with the wall,
256
00:13:13,293 --> 00:13:14,227
paint on the wall.
257
00:13:14,327 --> 00:13:15,929
We're looking for
toxic elements, which
258
00:13:16,029 --> 00:13:18,999
could somehow affect them.
259
00:13:19,099 --> 00:13:21,568
For example, certain
types of phosphate gases,
260
00:13:21,668 --> 00:13:24,537
when mixed with air, can
produce flashes of light.
261
00:13:24,637 --> 00:13:26,806
And some might see this
as poltergeist phenomena
262
00:13:26,907 --> 00:13:32,412
when, in fact, it's obviously
rationally explainable.
263
00:13:32,512 --> 00:13:35,115
After examining the environment,
if we don't find anything which
264
00:13:35,215 --> 00:13:39,086
is obvious, we will
then proceed to set
265
00:13:39,186 --> 00:13:43,991
up equipment in the environment
to do a long term surveillance.
266
00:13:44,091 --> 00:13:46,659
We would have specially
designed radioactivity
267
00:13:46,759 --> 00:13:48,228
monitoring equipment.
268
00:13:48,328 --> 00:13:52,866
We look for electrostatic
discharge of any type.
269
00:13:52,966 --> 00:13:54,767
We would look at
the magnetic fields,
270
00:13:54,868 --> 00:13:58,471
both electromagnetic fields
and geomagnetic fields.
271
00:13:58,571 --> 00:14:00,573
We would analyze the
spectrum of light,
272
00:14:00,673 --> 00:14:04,444
from infrared to ultraviolet,
and everything in between.
273
00:14:04,544 --> 00:14:05,879
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
The environment--
274
00:14:05,979 --> 00:14:08,715
in this case, the upstairs
rooms of the Stobb mansion--
275
00:14:08,815 --> 00:14:11,718
is sealed off for a
period of 12 to 72 hours.
276
00:14:14,821 --> 00:14:16,023
Go ahead and stand by.
277
00:14:16,123 --> 00:14:17,424
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
State of the art
278
00:14:17,524 --> 00:14:20,760
monitoring equipment, worth more
than half a million dollars,
279
00:14:20,860 --> 00:14:22,395
is setup in an adjacent area.
280
00:14:26,699 --> 00:14:29,102
The team then returns to
the environment, armed
281
00:14:29,202 --> 00:14:30,904
with special thermal
cameras which
282
00:14:31,004 --> 00:14:32,805
measure temperature variations.
283
00:14:37,110 --> 00:14:40,247
Finally, the room is
plunged into total darkness.
284
00:14:40,347 --> 00:14:43,016
The team uses the most
advanced night vision equipment
285
00:14:43,116 --> 00:14:46,753
to examine the environment.
286
00:14:46,853 --> 00:14:49,923
We have floors
that are lopsided.
287
00:14:50,023 --> 00:14:51,925
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): At
the end of every investigation,
288
00:14:52,025 --> 00:14:54,794
the team sits down together
for a case wrap up.
289
00:14:54,894 --> 00:14:56,829
Some people can perceive.
290
00:14:56,930 --> 00:14:58,631
There are no air vents.
291
00:14:58,731 --> 00:14:59,899
ROBERT STACK
(VOICEOVER): We were
292
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,834
able to analyze the environment
in every possible way.
293
00:15:01,935 --> 00:15:04,404
And we did not
encounter anything which
294
00:15:04,504 --> 00:15:08,841
was unusual or extraordinary.
295
00:15:08,942 --> 00:15:10,677
No vision and hearing trouble.
296
00:15:10,777 --> 00:15:13,613
OK, psychologically, I think
in terms of behavioral profile,
297
00:15:13,713 --> 00:15:14,781
I see--
298
00:15:14,881 --> 00:15:17,817
The examinations
performed on Russ and Holly
299
00:15:17,917 --> 00:15:20,487
prove that they are, in fact,
very credible witnesses.
300
00:15:20,587 --> 00:15:21,921
Functioning individuals.
301
00:15:22,022 --> 00:15:24,091
I see no evidence
of any suspicions.
302
00:15:24,191 --> 00:15:27,194
Based on the results of the
investigations we've conducted
303
00:15:27,294 --> 00:15:30,163
here, we haven't found any
facts to disprove the fact
304
00:15:30,263 --> 00:15:32,899
that the La Posada is haunted.
305
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:34,801
There certainly, then,
is that possibility
306
00:15:34,901 --> 00:15:37,870
that there is unusual paranormal
phenomena taking place here.
307
00:15:40,740 --> 00:15:42,142
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
Christopher Chacone
308
00:15:42,242 --> 00:15:44,811
and his team do plan to
return to the hotel at least
309
00:15:44,911 --> 00:15:47,614
once more to search for
definitive signs of a haunting.
310
00:15:50,483 --> 00:15:53,853
In the meantime, if you should
find yourself in Santa Fe,
311
00:15:53,953 --> 00:15:56,589
if you should check into one of
the rooms in the original Stobb
312
00:15:56,689 --> 00:16:00,793
mansion, it might not be a bad
idea to leave a single red rose
313
00:16:00,893 --> 00:16:02,462
on the windowsill.
314
00:16:02,562 --> 00:16:05,598
After all, rumor
has it that it was
315
00:16:05,698 --> 00:16:07,367
Julius Stobb's favorite flower.
316
00:16:13,140 --> 00:16:17,277
When we return, the puzzling
death of John Roubas.
317
00:16:17,377 --> 00:16:20,047
Did a cunning drug lord
stage his own murder
318
00:16:20,147 --> 00:16:22,149
to evade capture?
319
00:16:22,249 --> 00:16:23,616
[music playing]
320
00:16:31,458 --> 00:16:33,160
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
March 7th, 1988--
321
00:16:33,260 --> 00:16:36,029
San Juan, Puerto Rico.
322
00:16:36,129 --> 00:16:38,398
Flames consumed a
late model car that
323
00:16:38,498 --> 00:16:41,534
had apparently been abandoned
in a remote corner of the city.
324
00:16:45,038 --> 00:16:46,973
The next morning,
local authorities
325
00:16:47,074 --> 00:16:48,975
found the remains
of a body charred
326
00:16:49,076 --> 00:16:51,711
beyond recognition in
the back seat of the car.
327
00:16:56,183 --> 00:16:57,850
The only evidence
that might eventually
328
00:16:57,950 --> 00:17:00,987
lead to an ID of a victim
was a fragment of jaw bone
329
00:17:01,088 --> 00:17:05,425
and four loose teeth
recovered from the ashes.
330
00:17:05,525 --> 00:17:07,727
One week later,
anonymous informant
331
00:17:07,827 --> 00:17:12,031
told police that the
dead man was John Roubas.
332
00:17:12,132 --> 00:17:14,567
It was a name
authorities knew well.
333
00:17:14,667 --> 00:17:17,470
John Scott Roubas was a
ringleader of a multimillion
334
00:17:17,570 --> 00:17:19,472
dollar drug network.
335
00:17:19,572 --> 00:17:22,409
Headquartered in Puerto
Rico, the Roubas operation
336
00:17:22,509 --> 00:17:24,577
had a virtual
monopoly on cocaine
337
00:17:24,677 --> 00:17:30,083
and marijuana distribution in
the Midwestern United States.
338
00:17:30,183 --> 00:17:33,820
We were able to obtain
dental records from John
339
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,889
Roubas' dentist in Florida.
340
00:17:36,989 --> 00:17:40,393
And we shipped those dental
records to a pathologist
341
00:17:40,493 --> 00:17:44,131
in Puerto Rico, who had
found in the burnt automobile
342
00:17:44,231 --> 00:17:46,966
four loose teeth and
a piece of a jaw bone.
343
00:17:47,066 --> 00:17:50,837
That pathologist identified
those loose teeth
344
00:17:50,937 --> 00:17:54,073
as being those of John Roubas.
345
00:17:54,174 --> 00:17:55,275
ROBERT STACK
(VOICEOVER): For years,
346
00:17:55,375 --> 00:17:57,043
Roubas had alluded
law enforcement
347
00:17:57,144 --> 00:17:58,678
in several countries.
348
00:17:58,778 --> 00:18:00,647
Now, fire had
apparently accomplished
349
00:18:00,747 --> 00:18:02,249
what the law could not.
350
00:18:02,349 --> 00:18:04,684
John Roubas was out of business.
351
00:18:04,784 --> 00:18:05,585
Or was he?
352
00:18:08,955 --> 00:18:11,758
It began with a
few whispered rumors.
353
00:18:11,858 --> 00:18:14,294
But in the months that followed
the grisly discovery in Puerto
354
00:18:14,394 --> 00:18:17,630
Rico, authorities began to
suspect that the fiery death
355
00:18:17,730 --> 00:18:21,568
of John Roubas was, in
fact, a cunning hoax, a ruse
356
00:18:21,668 --> 00:18:23,903
to avoid prosecution.
357
00:18:24,003 --> 00:18:26,206
Tonight, in an
exclusive interview
358
00:18:26,306 --> 00:18:28,775
a former member of the
drug lord's inner circle
359
00:18:28,875 --> 00:18:30,743
claims that John
Roubas is very much
360
00:18:30,843 --> 00:18:32,979
alive, and as busy as ever.
361
00:18:36,115 --> 00:18:37,317
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
The sprawling
362
00:18:37,417 --> 00:18:41,354
empire of John Roubas operated
with military precision.
363
00:18:41,454 --> 00:18:43,256
A fleet of small
airplanes ferried
364
00:18:43,356 --> 00:18:46,693
tons of cocaine and marijuana
from secret plantations
365
00:18:46,793 --> 00:18:49,796
deep in the jungles of
Colombia, Panama, and Jamaica.
366
00:18:52,799 --> 00:18:55,702
The flights converged at
the island of Puerto Rico.
367
00:18:55,802 --> 00:18:57,270
The drugs were
repackaged, and then
368
00:18:57,370 --> 00:19:00,807
shipped into the United States
through Milwaukee and Chicago.
369
00:19:00,907 --> 00:19:04,076
Between 1981 and
'85, Roubas slipped
370
00:19:04,177 --> 00:19:07,480
an estimated $30 million
worth of drugs into the US.
371
00:19:11,218 --> 00:19:14,153
The Roubas operation was
a model of efficiency.
372
00:19:14,254 --> 00:19:16,389
At prearranged times,
illicit cargoes
373
00:19:16,489 --> 00:19:18,725
arriving from South
America were dropped just
374
00:19:18,825 --> 00:19:20,860
off the coast of Puerto Rico.
375
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:22,895
Small boats were
already in place
376
00:19:22,995 --> 00:19:24,397
waiting to retrieve the drugs.
377
00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:29,769
In most cases,
Roubas had hands
378
00:19:29,869 --> 00:19:32,138
on with the drug trafficking.
379
00:19:32,239 --> 00:19:35,908
Where a lot of the higher
echelon drug traffickers
380
00:19:36,008 --> 00:19:37,377
normally would stay
in the background,
381
00:19:37,477 --> 00:19:40,380
Roubas came to the foreground
and actively got involved
382
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:41,981
in the distribution process.
383
00:19:44,717 --> 00:19:45,952
ROBERT STACK
(VOICEOVER): The drugs
384
00:19:46,052 --> 00:19:48,221
were brought from the beach
to a hidden processing plant
385
00:19:48,321 --> 00:19:50,323
in the Puerto Rican highlands.
386
00:19:50,423 --> 00:19:52,359
There, the large
bundles were broken down
387
00:19:52,459 --> 00:19:54,394
into one pound packages
that could readily
388
00:19:54,494 --> 00:19:55,862
be smuggled into the US.
389
00:19:58,765 --> 00:20:04,070
John is one of the craftiest
guys I've ever met in my life.
390
00:20:04,170 --> 00:20:11,878
And his ability to smuggle
drugs into the United States
391
00:20:11,978 --> 00:20:14,146
unmolested--
392
00:20:14,247 --> 00:20:16,749
you know, he had several
years, maybe five, six, seven,
393
00:20:16,849 --> 00:20:19,185
eight years of
successful smuggling
394
00:20:19,286 --> 00:20:23,523
with no type of
wiretapping or anything.
395
00:20:23,623 --> 00:20:24,657
Don't get funny with my stuff.
396
00:20:24,757 --> 00:20:28,194
You know, he ran a
real stiff organization.
397
00:20:28,295 --> 00:20:29,095
Hey, Pablo!
398
00:20:29,195 --> 00:20:31,230
Come here.
399
00:20:31,331 --> 00:20:34,200
Roubas was very ruthless.
400
00:20:34,301 --> 00:20:36,369
That's typical of
the drug business.
401
00:20:36,469 --> 00:20:39,606
You have to gain your
respect through fear.
402
00:20:39,706 --> 00:20:41,508
And Roubas was very good at it.
403
00:20:44,477 --> 00:20:46,178
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
In one notorious incident,
404
00:20:46,279 --> 00:20:48,281
Roubas supposedly
became suspicious
405
00:20:48,381 --> 00:20:50,016
that one of his
pilots was running
406
00:20:50,116 --> 00:20:53,820
his own smuggling operation
using a company plane.
407
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:55,988
I see that it takes
you twice the time
408
00:20:56,088 --> 00:20:58,958
using twice as much
fuel, I get nervous.
409
00:20:59,058 --> 00:21:00,026
Yeah, but we have a problem--
410
00:21:00,126 --> 00:21:03,296
Sit down!
411
00:21:03,396 --> 00:21:04,797
We have problems.
412
00:21:08,901 --> 00:21:11,137
John, you've got
the wrong man here.
413
00:21:11,237 --> 00:21:12,805
Yeah, that's right.
414
00:21:12,905 --> 00:21:14,073
I got the wrong man.
415
00:21:14,173 --> 00:21:14,974
Mr. Roubas.
416
00:21:15,074 --> 00:21:19,145
[speaking spanish]
417
00:21:19,245 --> 00:21:20,246
What do you
think it would take
418
00:21:20,347 --> 00:21:21,948
for me to pull the trigger?
419
00:21:22,048 --> 00:21:23,950
What do you think it would take?
420
00:21:24,050 --> 00:21:26,586
What do you think it would take?
421
00:21:26,686 --> 00:21:28,788
Go on, get out of here!
422
00:21:28,888 --> 00:21:29,822
Get out!
423
00:21:29,922 --> 00:21:30,723
Get out!
424
00:21:34,427 --> 00:21:36,329
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Roubas
ruled with such an iron hand
425
00:21:36,429 --> 00:21:40,066
that it took investigators years
to penetrate the organization,
426
00:21:40,166 --> 00:21:43,403
locate the hidden processing
plant, and close in on Roubas
427
00:21:43,503 --> 00:21:45,438
himself.
428
00:21:45,538 --> 00:21:49,041
By December of 1987,
authorities in the United States
429
00:21:49,141 --> 00:21:52,612
had enough evidence to charge
37 members of the ring.
430
00:21:52,712 --> 00:21:56,983
Every one of them was arrested,
everyone but John Roubas.
431
00:21:57,083 --> 00:21:59,251
He seemed to have
vanished into thin air.
432
00:22:03,022 --> 00:22:04,957
Three months later,
the charred remains
433
00:22:05,057 --> 00:22:07,594
were identified as Roubas
based solely on the four
434
00:22:07,694 --> 00:22:10,497
teeth found at the scene.
435
00:22:10,597 --> 00:22:12,932
In the United States,
the outstanding charges
436
00:22:13,032 --> 00:22:14,801
against Roubas were dropped.
437
00:22:14,901 --> 00:22:17,837
In Puerto Rico, police
uncovered a vendetta
438
00:22:17,937 --> 00:22:19,606
that had apparently
led to the murder
439
00:22:19,706 --> 00:22:22,709
of the fugitive drug lord.
440
00:22:22,809 --> 00:22:25,478
Donald Kurtzer, a former
associate of Roubas,
441
00:22:25,578 --> 00:22:28,347
was convicted of
masterminding the hit.
442
00:22:28,448 --> 00:22:30,950
Allegedly, Roubas was
killed in retaliation
443
00:22:31,050 --> 00:22:33,252
for raping both
Kurtzer's girlfriend
444
00:22:33,352 --> 00:22:38,024
and the 14-year-old daughter
of Kurtzer's housekeeper.
445
00:22:38,124 --> 00:22:40,026
According to Puerto
Rican authorities,
446
00:22:40,126 --> 00:22:42,562
the night of his death,
Roubas arrived at the airport
447
00:22:42,662 --> 00:22:43,996
in San Juan.
448
00:22:44,096 --> 00:22:46,132
He was met there by
two women, one of whom
449
00:22:46,232 --> 00:22:48,935
was ultimately
convicted in the case.
450
00:22:49,035 --> 00:22:51,070
Although he rarely
drank, Roubas was
451
00:22:51,170 --> 00:22:53,339
said to be heavily intoxicated.
452
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,275
We were so worried about you.
453
00:22:56,375 --> 00:22:57,243
Worried?
454
00:22:57,343 --> 00:23:00,580
Honey, I missed you.
455
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,248
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
Explaining that they had
456
00:23:02,348 --> 00:23:04,517
an unexpected errand,
the women drove
457
00:23:04,617 --> 00:23:08,287
their passenger to a deserted
area on the outskirts of town.
458
00:23:08,387 --> 00:23:09,756
Hey, where are we?
459
00:23:36,783 --> 00:23:38,651
[gunshots]
460
00:23:56,335 --> 00:23:57,470
ROBERT STACK
(VOICEOVER): Officially,
461
00:23:57,570 --> 00:23:59,606
John Roubas ceased to exist--
462
00:23:59,706 --> 00:24:01,040
officially.
463
00:24:01,140 --> 00:24:02,008
[phone ringing]
464
00:24:02,108 --> 00:24:03,910
Hey, what's up?
465
00:24:04,010 --> 00:24:05,612
JOHN: It's John.
466
00:24:05,712 --> 00:24:06,513
John?
467
00:24:06,613 --> 00:24:08,047
Where have you been?
468
00:24:08,147 --> 00:24:11,417
But A few months later,
his former associate Richard
469
00:24:11,518 --> 00:24:13,352
received a call from a dead man.
470
00:24:13,452 --> 00:24:14,286
What do you mean?
471
00:24:14,386 --> 00:24:15,522
JOHN: I mean it's
not a good time
472
00:24:15,622 --> 00:24:17,757
to go down there right now.
473
00:24:17,857 --> 00:24:20,192
All right, I think I know
what you're talking about.
474
00:24:20,292 --> 00:24:21,427
JOHN: They closed
down the old house.
475
00:24:21,528 --> 00:24:23,863
A lot of people
have been picked up.
476
00:24:23,963 --> 00:24:25,932
I have no doubt about
it being John Roubas.
477
00:24:26,032 --> 00:24:30,369
You know, we had acquaintance
over an extensive period
478
00:24:30,469 --> 00:24:31,804
of time.
479
00:24:31,904 --> 00:24:36,442
So I mean, you know, I'd
know his voice anywhere.
480
00:24:36,543 --> 00:24:38,678
We also began to receive
information through some
481
00:24:38,778 --> 00:24:40,747
various other of the
co-defendants that had been
482
00:24:40,847 --> 00:24:43,282
charged in the
case that, perhaps,
483
00:24:43,382 --> 00:24:45,317
Roubas was alive, that
they had seen him,
484
00:24:45,417 --> 00:24:47,119
that they had talked to him.
485
00:24:47,219 --> 00:24:50,823
And what was reported to us
was that one of the defendants
486
00:24:50,923 --> 00:24:54,360
wives had received a
telephone call from a person
487
00:24:54,460 --> 00:24:58,164
that she identified
as John Roubas.
488
00:24:58,264 --> 00:24:59,431
ROBERT STACK
(VOICEOVER): Authorities
489
00:24:59,532 --> 00:25:02,602
have another reason to
believe Roubas is still alive.
490
00:25:02,702 --> 00:25:07,406
He was simply too smart
to let himself be trapped.
491
00:25:07,506 --> 00:25:09,976
John Roubas in the
business he was involved in,
492
00:25:10,076 --> 00:25:13,980
illegal narcotics, was a
very suspicious individual,
493
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,949
and took a lot of precaution
to protect himself.
494
00:25:17,049 --> 00:25:20,019
He never traveled alone.
495
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,221
And when he did travel,
he always traveled armed.
496
00:25:22,321 --> 00:25:24,924
So the facts that
were put together just
497
00:25:25,024 --> 00:25:29,261
did not fit well with what
we knew of John Roubas.
498
00:25:29,361 --> 00:25:30,462
ROBERT STACK
(VOICEOVER): Two people
499
00:25:30,563 --> 00:25:32,565
have served time in
Puerto Rican prisons
500
00:25:32,665 --> 00:25:34,834
for the murder of John Roubas.
501
00:25:34,934 --> 00:25:36,769
But was Roubas truly the victim?
502
00:25:36,869 --> 00:25:42,008
Or was someone else
assassinated in his place?
503
00:25:42,108 --> 00:25:44,410
Roubas was fully capable
of staging his own death,
504
00:25:44,510 --> 00:25:46,045
and may well have
had his own teeth
505
00:25:46,145 --> 00:25:49,682
extracted in order to accomplish
a false identification
506
00:25:49,782 --> 00:25:51,017
of a body.
507
00:25:51,117 --> 00:25:54,386
And I believe that there is
substantial reason to believe
508
00:25:54,486 --> 00:25:57,690
that John Roubas is alive.
509
00:25:57,790 --> 00:25:59,926
It wasn't he could have.
510
00:26:00,026 --> 00:26:02,829
He did pull it off.
511
00:26:02,929 --> 00:26:04,263
I know John pretty well.
512
00:26:04,363 --> 00:26:09,501
I mean, and John is a
very mystique type of guy.
513
00:26:09,602 --> 00:26:11,203
One thing that he
would never do was
514
00:26:11,303 --> 00:26:15,274
corner himself in a situation
where he couldn't get out.
515
00:26:15,374 --> 00:26:20,546
He always had an exit that
most people didn't know about.
516
00:26:20,647 --> 00:26:25,051
Bottom line is that
John Roubas still rides.
517
00:26:25,151 --> 00:26:27,519
[music playing]
518
00:26:40,900 --> 00:26:42,168
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
When we return,
519
00:26:42,268 --> 00:26:44,236
surprising discoveries
in a treasure
520
00:26:44,336 --> 00:26:46,205
hunt in downtown Los Angeles.
521
00:26:46,305 --> 00:26:48,174
[music playing]
522
00:26:57,149 --> 00:26:58,885
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
Spanish doubloons,
523
00:26:58,985 --> 00:27:02,154
royal jewels, chests of gold--
524
00:27:02,254 --> 00:27:04,924
in our experience, there's
nothing like an old legend
525
00:27:05,024 --> 00:27:07,059
of buried treasure
to lure otherwise
526
00:27:07,159 --> 00:27:12,598
sensible folks into the
wilderness to risk their lives.
527
00:27:12,699 --> 00:27:15,968
While these tales may be
rich in history and folklore,
528
00:27:16,068 --> 00:27:17,569
we've learned that
they don't usually
529
00:27:17,670 --> 00:27:19,638
amount to much when
it comes to actually
530
00:27:19,739 --> 00:27:21,107
finding anything of value.
531
00:27:23,976 --> 00:27:27,046
That is, until we heard about
the buried treasures of Elysian
532
00:27:27,146 --> 00:27:32,118
Park, 575 acres of hills
and secluded canyons
533
00:27:32,218 --> 00:27:35,621
situated just two miles from the
heart of downtown Los Angeles.
534
00:27:38,524 --> 00:27:41,728
In June of 1994,
"Unsolved Mysteries"
535
00:27:41,828 --> 00:27:44,697
brought in a team of historical
researchers and high tech
536
00:27:44,797 --> 00:27:47,700
surveyors to follow
up age old rumors
537
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,237
of buried gold and jewels that
would now be worth millions.
538
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,608
Incredibly, the
sensitive instruments
539
00:27:56,709 --> 00:27:59,779
revealed that the legendary
treasures of Elysian Park
540
00:27:59,879 --> 00:28:01,647
may, in fact, be real.
541
00:28:05,918 --> 00:28:10,156
It seems hard to believe that
150 years ago Los Angeles was
542
00:28:10,256 --> 00:28:12,925
just a dusty pueblo,
a quiet outpost
543
00:28:13,025 --> 00:28:15,962
in the northernmost
territory of Mexico.
544
00:28:16,062 --> 00:28:21,868
But that way of life came
to a sudden end in 1846.
545
00:28:21,968 --> 00:28:25,738
War had erupted between
Mexico and the United States.
546
00:28:25,838 --> 00:28:28,775
According to stories
handed down over the years,
547
00:28:28,875 --> 00:28:32,879
well-to-do Angelenos panicked
as American forces drew near.
548
00:28:32,979 --> 00:28:35,547
Some dug elaborate
escape tunnels.
549
00:28:35,647 --> 00:28:38,417
Others buried their family
fortunes for safekeeping.
550
00:28:50,196 --> 00:28:53,833
This was the best thing
that they could do to protect
551
00:28:53,933 --> 00:28:55,634
their valuables at the time.
552
00:28:55,734 --> 00:28:59,005
And it was a customary way,
because there were no banks.
553
00:28:59,105 --> 00:29:01,908
If you wanted to protect
something, bury it, hide it.
554
00:29:06,612 --> 00:29:08,981
Elysian park was the
most logical place
555
00:29:09,081 --> 00:29:12,885
for people living in the Los
Angeles area at that time
556
00:29:12,985 --> 00:29:15,421
to bury treasure.
557
00:29:15,521 --> 00:29:16,856
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
Through the years,
558
00:29:16,956 --> 00:29:20,292
stories circulated that some
families never came back,
559
00:29:20,392 --> 00:29:22,628
and that their treasures
were still waiting to be
560
00:29:22,728 --> 00:29:24,530
discovered in Elysian Park.
561
00:29:27,900 --> 00:29:33,105
In 1984, two sisters hired Roy
Roche to explore in the park.
562
00:29:33,205 --> 00:29:35,107
The women recall
their father searching
563
00:29:35,207 --> 00:29:38,310
for one of the fabled treasures
when they were children.
564
00:29:38,410 --> 00:29:42,048
Soon, they located a spot
that seemed familiar.
565
00:29:42,148 --> 00:29:45,885
It might have been there.
566
00:29:45,985 --> 00:29:48,120
I realized that this was
an excellent place to bury
567
00:29:48,220 --> 00:29:54,526
treasure, because it was a
place where you could dig
568
00:29:54,626 --> 00:29:57,796
a good-sized tunnel without
being observed, because there
569
00:29:57,897 --> 00:30:01,167
was trees and hills.
570
00:30:01,267 --> 00:30:02,368
Well, the first
thing that attracted
571
00:30:02,468 --> 00:30:06,505
my attention was on the
side of a sandstone bluff
572
00:30:06,605 --> 00:30:09,541
were three indentations.
573
00:30:09,641 --> 00:30:13,312
The holes seemed to be rather
symmetrical and rather smooth,
574
00:30:13,412 --> 00:30:16,548
and looked like it
probably could be man made.
575
00:30:16,648 --> 00:30:17,984
However, it was quite
possible that they
576
00:30:18,084 --> 00:30:20,486
could be natural also.
577
00:30:20,586 --> 00:30:23,455
So keeping that in mind,
I'm now looking around
578
00:30:23,555 --> 00:30:26,392
for some other
signs and symbols.
579
00:30:26,492 --> 00:30:33,132
About 75 feet away at the same
level on the side of the hill,
580
00:30:33,232 --> 00:30:35,634
I discovered some
initials carved
581
00:30:35,734 --> 00:30:37,003
in the side of another rock.
582
00:30:44,143 --> 00:30:46,178
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
Halfway between the two signs,
583
00:30:46,278 --> 00:30:49,348
Roy spotted exactly what
he had been looking for--
584
00:30:49,448 --> 00:30:52,919
evidence of an old tunnel.
585
00:30:53,019 --> 00:30:55,554
I think I found something.
586
00:30:55,654 --> 00:30:57,323
It was not military.
587
00:30:57,423 --> 00:30:59,591
It was not a miner's tunnel.
588
00:30:59,691 --> 00:31:01,027
It was not for building.
589
00:31:01,127 --> 00:31:04,163
It was not an old toilet pit.
590
00:31:04,263 --> 00:31:05,131
It all came together.
591
00:31:05,231 --> 00:31:06,732
It was perfect.
592
00:31:06,832 --> 00:31:08,234
Obviously, it was
a treasure shaft.
593
00:31:08,334 --> 00:31:12,771
There was no other reason
for this hole being there.
594
00:31:12,871 --> 00:31:14,173
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
It seems simple,
595
00:31:14,273 --> 00:31:17,143
removed dirt, claim treasure.
596
00:31:17,243 --> 00:31:19,979
The sisters said they had
permits from park officials.
597
00:31:20,079 --> 00:31:22,848
But Roy suggested that
the crew dig at night
598
00:31:22,949 --> 00:31:26,085
to avoid attracting rivals.
599
00:31:26,185 --> 00:31:28,554
We got down about 25 feet.
600
00:31:28,654 --> 00:31:31,790
And I got a fairly
good signal right
601
00:31:31,890 --> 00:31:32,925
in the center of the hole.
602
00:31:36,095 --> 00:31:39,365
We all got excited, because
metal detectors don't
603
00:31:39,465 --> 00:31:40,732
lie in a situation like that.
604
00:31:47,839 --> 00:31:49,508
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
The instrument had, indeed,
605
00:31:49,608 --> 00:31:51,843
detected buried artifacts.
606
00:31:51,944 --> 00:31:56,682
But they were not exactly what
Roy Roche was looking for.
607
00:31:56,782 --> 00:32:01,453
We uncovered two very
old flashlight batteries,
608
00:32:01,553 --> 00:32:04,190
the oldest flashlight
batteries I'd ever seen.
609
00:32:04,290 --> 00:32:06,993
Even though I got no more
readings with my metal detector
610
00:32:07,093 --> 00:32:10,729
after we uncovered the
two flashlight batteries,
611
00:32:10,829 --> 00:32:11,630
we kept digging.
612
00:32:15,201 --> 00:32:17,136
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
30 feet into the tunnel,
613
00:32:17,236 --> 00:32:18,904
another artifact--
614
00:32:19,005 --> 00:32:23,342
the frayed end of a very
old, crudely made rope.
615
00:32:23,442 --> 00:32:25,744
This was bad news, because
after finding the two
616
00:32:25,844 --> 00:32:29,248
old flashlight batteries
and a piece of rope,
617
00:32:29,348 --> 00:32:31,017
it was quite obvious
that somebody
618
00:32:31,117 --> 00:32:35,554
else had already beat us to
the treasure years before.
619
00:32:35,654 --> 00:32:36,888
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
For Roy Roche,
620
00:32:36,989 --> 00:32:39,558
it was a treasure
hunter's worst nightmare.
621
00:32:39,658 --> 00:32:44,396
He was certain he had found the
right spot, but far too late.
622
00:32:44,496 --> 00:32:47,199
Well, whatever was in
there was big and heavy.
623
00:32:47,299 --> 00:32:49,868
Somebody has beat us to it.
624
00:32:49,968 --> 00:32:52,338
It was a combination
of gratification
625
00:32:52,438 --> 00:32:53,739
and disappointment.
626
00:32:53,839 --> 00:32:59,845
The gratification was that we
had correctly found a treasure
627
00:32:59,945 --> 00:33:03,182
tunnel and had excavated it.
628
00:33:03,282 --> 00:33:06,385
But the disappointment was that
after all the time, and money,
629
00:33:06,485 --> 00:33:09,121
and work, and effort
that we put into it,
630
00:33:09,221 --> 00:33:10,922
we had nothing to
show for our efforts
631
00:33:11,023 --> 00:33:12,758
except a couple of old
flashlight batteries
632
00:33:12,858 --> 00:33:13,659
and a piece of rope.
633
00:33:15,794 --> 00:33:17,196
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
Although he came up
634
00:33:17,296 --> 00:33:20,099
empty handed, Roy Roche
believes there are still
635
00:33:20,199 --> 00:33:23,469
buried treasures in Elysian
Park with a total value
636
00:33:23,569 --> 00:33:25,003
approaching $1 million.
637
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,676
To test that theory,
"Unsolved Mysteries"
638
00:33:30,776 --> 00:33:33,712
called upon experts from the
National Underwater and Marine
639
00:33:33,812 --> 00:33:37,649
Agency, or NUMA, a nonprofit
group that conducts
640
00:33:37,749 --> 00:33:40,419
both ocean and ground surveys.
641
00:33:40,519 --> 00:33:42,888
Their surface
investigation was fully
642
00:33:42,988 --> 00:33:45,957
approved by city officials.
643
00:33:46,058 --> 00:33:47,759
All right, guys, let's go.
644
00:33:47,859 --> 00:33:49,961
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
The sensing device emits
645
00:33:50,062 --> 00:33:53,265
radar waves as it has
dragged across the field.
646
00:33:53,365 --> 00:33:55,601
A cross section of
what lies underground
647
00:33:55,701 --> 00:33:59,037
shows up on this monitor.
648
00:33:59,138 --> 00:34:02,808
An anomaly such as a cannon,
or perhaps a treasure chest,
649
00:34:02,908 --> 00:34:05,344
would appear on the screen
as a discernible shape
650
00:34:05,444 --> 00:34:08,447
among the colors.
651
00:34:08,547 --> 00:34:10,116
Now, if there is a
foreign object in there,
652
00:34:10,216 --> 00:34:12,351
like maybe a box or a cannon,
something that doesn't
653
00:34:12,451 --> 00:34:14,052
belong there, we can see it.
654
00:34:14,153 --> 00:34:15,554
We have an image of it.
655
00:34:15,654 --> 00:34:17,423
And we don't know
what it's made of yet.
656
00:34:17,523 --> 00:34:21,427
So we'll come back over and
do an electromagnetic survey
657
00:34:21,527 --> 00:34:24,496
to see if that can-type
object is a log,
658
00:34:24,596 --> 00:34:26,064
or really has some metal to it.
659
00:34:26,165 --> 00:34:28,667
Or that box could have
some gold or silver in it,
660
00:34:28,767 --> 00:34:30,068
or if it's just a wooden box.
661
00:34:32,838 --> 00:34:34,673
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
After the survey was completed,
662
00:34:34,773 --> 00:34:36,842
computers translated
the information
663
00:34:36,942 --> 00:34:39,611
into these cross sections.
664
00:34:39,711 --> 00:34:41,913
Here is the first anomaly.
665
00:34:42,013 --> 00:34:44,583
Though open to
interpretation, these marks
666
00:34:44,683 --> 00:34:48,154
could suggest the presence
of a vertical tunnel running
667
00:34:48,254 --> 00:34:51,957
to a depth of roughly 30 feet.
668
00:34:52,057 --> 00:34:53,925
The second anomaly
was detected less
669
00:34:54,025 --> 00:34:56,395
than 10 feet below the surface.
670
00:34:56,495 --> 00:34:59,165
The survey findings
indicate that this anomaly
671
00:34:59,265 --> 00:35:03,902
is not only a solid object,
but is also metallic.
672
00:35:04,002 --> 00:35:05,937
If there is
treasure here, I would
673
00:35:06,037 --> 00:35:07,939
prefer to see it stay here.
674
00:35:08,039 --> 00:35:09,375
I'd like to keep
that mystery alive.
675
00:35:09,475 --> 00:35:13,044
I think it adds to the
mystique of this park.
676
00:35:13,145 --> 00:35:16,315
I think it's something that
people would probably continue
677
00:35:16,415 --> 00:35:18,817
to talk about in
the future, and help
678
00:35:18,917 --> 00:35:20,919
to keep the mystique
of the treasure that
679
00:35:21,019 --> 00:35:22,454
might be in Elysian Park alive.
680
00:35:26,525 --> 00:35:28,794
Representatives of NUMA
believe the anomalies
681
00:35:28,894 --> 00:35:31,497
may be important relics
from the city's history,
682
00:35:31,597 --> 00:35:33,965
links to its Mexican past.
683
00:35:34,065 --> 00:35:37,303
However, it is unlikely we
will ever know for sure.
684
00:35:37,403 --> 00:35:39,738
Obtaining a permit to
excavate in Los Angeles
685
00:35:39,838 --> 00:35:42,608
is even more difficult than
finding a buried treasure.
686
00:35:42,708 --> 00:35:46,345
And digging without a permit
is strictly against the law.
687
00:35:46,445 --> 00:35:49,648
Violators are subject to arrest,
and could end up in jail,
688
00:35:49,748 --> 00:35:51,650
rather than on easy street.
689
00:35:54,886 --> 00:35:57,223
Next, a man searches
for the American soldier
690
00:35:57,323 --> 00:36:00,158
who helped save his family
during the final days
691
00:36:00,259 --> 00:36:02,561
of the Second World War.
692
00:36:02,661 --> 00:36:04,496
[music playing]
693
00:36:09,901 --> 00:36:11,770
Recently, we received
a rather unusual
694
00:36:11,870 --> 00:36:14,039
letter from one of our viewers.
695
00:36:14,139 --> 00:36:16,508
She called her attention to
the moving story of a man
696
00:36:16,608 --> 00:36:18,977
she knows in Germany who
is looking for someone here
697
00:36:19,077 --> 00:36:20,979
in the United States.
698
00:36:21,079 --> 00:36:24,650
Needless to say, we were both
intrigued and anxious to help.
699
00:36:24,750 --> 00:36:27,219
So this past summer
we traveled to Europe,
700
00:36:27,319 --> 00:36:29,154
and came back with
a poignant mystery
701
00:36:29,255 --> 00:36:31,122
of kindness and compassion.
702
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:35,894
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
For more than a decade,
703
00:36:35,994 --> 00:36:38,897
Siegfried and Marguerite
Laier of Germany
704
00:36:38,997 --> 00:36:42,401
have been searching for
an unsung American hero,
705
00:36:42,501 --> 00:36:45,070
a young soldier who forged
an unlikely friendship
706
00:36:45,170 --> 00:36:47,639
with Siegfried when he
was just a small boy
707
00:36:47,739 --> 00:36:49,174
nearly half a century ago.
708
00:36:51,777 --> 00:36:57,616
1945, the final days of
the Second World War--
709
00:36:57,716 --> 00:37:00,252
for Germany civilian
population, it was a time
710
00:37:00,352 --> 00:37:01,520
of uncertainty and despair.
711
00:37:04,155 --> 00:37:05,924
Among the innocent
victims was young
712
00:37:06,024 --> 00:37:08,860
Siegfried Laier, whose
neighborhood of Ludwigshaven
713
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,562
was leveled by Allied bombers.
714
00:37:13,565 --> 00:37:16,234
Siegfried's mother immediately
fled with her three youngest
715
00:37:16,335 --> 00:37:17,736
children.
716
00:37:17,836 --> 00:37:21,006
The Lyres walk 125
miles to take refuge
717
00:37:21,106 --> 00:37:24,042
with relatives in a village.
718
00:37:24,142 --> 00:37:26,978
They quickly discovered that
the hardships, especially
719
00:37:27,078 --> 00:37:28,547
for children, were universal.
720
00:37:33,151 --> 00:37:34,420
INTERPRETER (VOICEOVER):
It was very bad.
721
00:37:40,359 --> 00:37:42,160
I was four when the war ended.
722
00:37:42,260 --> 00:37:46,197
There was very little
food to be had.
723
00:37:46,298 --> 00:37:49,167
We had to go with [inaudible]
vouchers and buy food.
724
00:37:49,267 --> 00:37:50,536
But there wasn't much around.
725
00:37:54,105 --> 00:37:55,907
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
In March of 1945,
726
00:37:56,007 --> 00:37:59,845
American troops rolled
into Morlanbach.
727
00:37:59,945 --> 00:38:03,148
The German citizens had feared
the worst, a conquering army
728
00:38:03,248 --> 00:38:04,916
bent on revenge.
729
00:38:05,016 --> 00:38:07,152
But instead, they encountered
a benevolent corps
730
00:38:07,252 --> 00:38:12,257
of occupiers who provided them
with food and medical supplies.
731
00:38:12,358 --> 00:38:15,327
One of the GIs was a
young man named Alexander.
732
00:38:18,497 --> 00:38:20,966
You want something?
733
00:38:21,066 --> 00:38:25,371
Come here, it's chocolate.
734
00:38:25,471 --> 00:38:26,271
Come here.
735
00:38:26,372 --> 00:38:28,507
It's all right.
736
00:38:28,607 --> 00:38:33,445
Hey, can you say chocolate?
737
00:38:33,545 --> 00:38:34,346
Chocolate.
738
00:38:34,446 --> 00:38:35,246
Very good.
739
00:38:37,983 --> 00:38:39,551
INTERPRETER (VOICEOVER):
He was sympathetic to me,
740
00:38:39,651 --> 00:38:41,687
and friendly.
741
00:38:41,787 --> 00:38:44,122
Yes, will you take this home?
742
00:38:44,222 --> 00:38:45,824
INTERPRETER (VOICEOVER):
If it hadn't been for him,
743
00:38:45,924 --> 00:38:48,527
perhaps I would
not be alive today.
744
00:38:48,627 --> 00:38:51,229
He was a guardian angel for me.
745
00:38:51,329 --> 00:38:52,664
[knocking]
746
00:39:01,072 --> 00:39:05,511
I am Alexander, American.
747
00:39:05,611 --> 00:39:06,978
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
The guardian angel
748
00:39:07,078 --> 00:39:09,481
took it upon himself
to track Sigfried down.
749
00:39:12,451 --> 00:39:13,251
Soup.
750
00:39:17,756 --> 00:39:18,824
ROBERT STACK
(VOICEOVER): Alexander
751
00:39:18,924 --> 00:39:21,393
took a genuine interest
in the Laier family.
752
00:39:21,493 --> 00:39:24,830
And before long, the food
shortages were a dim memory.
753
00:39:29,067 --> 00:39:31,102
INTERPRETER (VOICEOVER): He
brought us food from the army,
754
00:39:31,202 --> 00:39:32,804
the same food eaten by them.
755
00:39:32,904 --> 00:39:34,406
We also ate.
756
00:39:40,546 --> 00:39:42,548
He used to come by
every day, if only
757
00:39:42,648 --> 00:39:45,116
to pick me up and take
me to kindergarten,
758
00:39:45,216 --> 00:39:47,486
or to pick me up there later.
759
00:39:47,586 --> 00:39:51,557
Each time, he would
bring a little food.
760
00:39:51,657 --> 00:39:52,691
ROBERT STACK
(VOICEOVER): The bond
761
00:39:52,791 --> 00:39:55,226
between the German child
and the American GI
762
00:39:55,326 --> 00:39:57,996
grew stronger with
each passing day.
763
00:39:58,096 --> 00:40:00,832
Alexander would often invite
Siegfried to tag along
764
00:40:00,932 --> 00:40:03,068
on routine patrols around town.
765
00:40:03,168 --> 00:40:04,302
You want to drive?
766
00:40:04,402 --> 00:40:05,336
- Want to drive?
- Right.
767
00:40:05,437 --> 00:40:06,705
- Right.
- Jeep.
768
00:40:06,805 --> 00:40:07,673
Jeep.
769
00:40:07,773 --> 00:40:09,107
OK.
770
00:40:09,207 --> 00:40:10,075
Jeep.
771
00:40:10,175 --> 00:40:11,743
Jeep.
772
00:40:11,843 --> 00:40:13,845
Grab the wheel.
773
00:40:13,945 --> 00:40:14,746
Watch the road.
774
00:40:14,846 --> 00:40:16,948
Watch the road.
775
00:40:17,048 --> 00:40:19,551
INTERPRETER (VOICEOVER): Then I
was allowed to drive with him.
776
00:40:19,651 --> 00:40:22,187
That was the most
wonderful thing.
777
00:40:22,287 --> 00:40:23,321
Ziggy, you're driving!
778
00:40:28,994 --> 00:40:30,696
INTERPRETER (VOICEOVER):
When I was sitting in the car
779
00:40:30,796 --> 00:40:34,466
and the other children saw
me, they were, perhaps,
780
00:40:34,566 --> 00:40:37,335
a bit jealous, because I
was not allowed to drive,
781
00:40:37,435 --> 00:40:38,570
and they couldn't.
782
00:40:38,670 --> 00:40:41,940
I was fairly proud.
783
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:43,174
I don't know if
you can understand
784
00:40:43,274 --> 00:40:48,647
what I'm trying to say
to you, but I have to go.
785
00:40:48,747 --> 00:40:49,881
ROBERT STACK
(VOICEOVER): Inevitably,
786
00:40:49,981 --> 00:40:53,151
the time came to say goodbye.
787
00:40:53,251 --> 00:40:56,421
We may not see each
other for a long time,
788
00:40:56,522 --> 00:40:57,322
for a very long time.
789
00:41:00,325 --> 00:41:02,393
INTERPRETER
(VOICEOVER): I was sad.
790
00:41:02,494 --> 00:41:04,429
Perhaps I would
never see him again.
791
00:41:07,032 --> 00:41:10,068
As I think about it
today, I was really sad.
792
00:41:22,614 --> 00:41:24,516
Be a good boy.
793
00:41:34,059 --> 00:41:36,461
Be a good boy, Ziggy!
794
00:41:40,532 --> 00:41:41,700
INTERPRETER (VOICEOVER):
I have always
795
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,903
thought about how he helped
us, and that I should,
796
00:41:45,003 --> 00:41:46,705
in turn, help other people.
797
00:41:49,675 --> 00:41:51,877
He was not obliged
to us in any way.
798
00:41:51,977 --> 00:41:57,115
But he did it as a human
being, out of human love.
799
00:42:01,386 --> 00:42:03,088
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
Today, Sigfried has only one
800
00:42:03,188 --> 00:42:06,625
precious memento of
Alexander, this photograph
801
00:42:06,725 --> 00:42:09,595
taken in the spring of 1945.
802
00:42:09,695 --> 00:42:13,565
At the time, Alexander was
approximately 20 years old.
803
00:42:13,665 --> 00:42:15,200
He would now be around 70.
804
00:42:17,869 --> 00:42:21,506
Sigfried Laier or does not
know Alexander's last name.
805
00:42:21,607 --> 00:42:23,875
He does know that Alexander
was part of an army unit
806
00:42:23,975 --> 00:42:28,814
that marched into Marlaboch
Germany on March 27, 1945.
807
00:42:28,914 --> 00:42:30,315
While there, the
soldiers were housed
808
00:42:30,415 --> 00:42:32,884
at the Grunebaum Guesthouse.
809
00:42:32,984 --> 00:42:35,253
[music playing]
810
00:42:40,926 --> 00:42:42,493
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
On a previous broadcast,
811
00:42:42,594 --> 00:42:44,996
we brought you the poignant
story of the Krone family
812
00:42:45,096 --> 00:42:47,465
of Illinois.
813
00:42:47,565 --> 00:42:50,669
Just before Christmas
in 1948, Hilda Krone
814
00:42:50,769 --> 00:42:54,039
and seven of her children had
been evicted from their home.
815
00:42:54,139 --> 00:42:59,110
The only available shelter
was the Henry County Jail.
816
00:42:59,210 --> 00:43:00,511
Eventually, the
children were all
817
00:43:00,612 --> 00:43:03,048
separated, either
put up for adoption
818
00:43:03,148 --> 00:43:06,217
or placed in foster care.
819
00:43:06,317 --> 00:43:09,320
18 years later, two of the
children, Marie and Raymond,
820
00:43:09,420 --> 00:43:11,990
managed to find each other.
821
00:43:12,090 --> 00:43:14,993
Together, they set out to track
down the rest of the family.
822
00:43:19,164 --> 00:43:21,066
For 18 years,
Maria and Raymond
823
00:43:21,166 --> 00:43:25,270
suffered through a series of
near misses and false leads.
824
00:43:25,370 --> 00:43:29,474
Finally, in 1993, they did
locate one sister, Karen.
825
00:43:29,574 --> 00:43:32,610
Then their story aired
on "Unsolved Mysteries."
826
00:43:32,711 --> 00:43:36,715
Incredibly, within a few hours,
two more sisters and three
827
00:43:36,815 --> 00:43:37,783
brothers had been found.
828
00:43:41,386 --> 00:43:43,554
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER):
On July 9th, 1994,
829
00:43:43,655 --> 00:43:45,991
we were at Raymond's
house in Houston, Texas
830
00:43:46,091 --> 00:43:48,660
as the Krone family gathered
for their first reunion
831
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:50,929
in more than 45 years.
832
00:43:51,029 --> 00:43:55,333
Marie's dream had
finally come true.
833
00:43:55,433 --> 00:43:57,836
I've been looking forward
to this for a long time,
834
00:43:57,936 --> 00:44:00,906
because I didn't know if
I would ever get to really
835
00:44:01,006 --> 00:44:02,373
meet them in person or not.
836
00:44:07,679 --> 00:44:12,417
I feel that the
love is still there.
837
00:44:12,517 --> 00:44:14,152
It never went away.
838
00:44:14,252 --> 00:44:15,286
It's always been there.
839
00:44:15,386 --> 00:44:17,923
And I always
wondered about them.
840
00:44:18,023 --> 00:44:20,726
And now, I'll finally
get to find out
841
00:44:20,826 --> 00:44:23,361
what has been going on with
their life and everything,
842
00:44:23,461 --> 00:44:25,530
and get reacquainted.
843
00:44:29,701 --> 00:44:31,837
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): For
the oldest sister, Betty Jane,
844
00:44:31,937 --> 00:44:35,206
the reunion was
particularly emotional.
845
00:44:35,306 --> 00:44:37,843
I knew that was
Marie right away.
846
00:44:37,943 --> 00:44:41,880
Just by looking at her,
I knew that was Marie.
847
00:44:41,980 --> 00:44:43,782
And that's when the
first one I embraced.
848
00:44:46,985 --> 00:44:48,820
I was very happy
to see them all.
849
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:50,255
And they all started
coming to me.
850
00:44:50,355 --> 00:44:52,423
And I started going to them,
hugging them, and everything.
851
00:44:52,523 --> 00:44:54,425
So I was very happy.
852
00:44:54,525 --> 00:44:55,961
I feel so good.
853
00:44:56,061 --> 00:44:58,797
I really do.
854
00:44:58,897 --> 00:45:00,899
ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): For
Raymond, the end of the search
855
00:45:00,999 --> 00:45:03,134
meant a new beginning.
856
00:45:07,105 --> 00:45:10,408
We got a lot of
catching up to do.
857
00:45:10,508 --> 00:45:11,509
Yeah, we do.
858
00:45:11,609 --> 00:45:15,413
I always knew their
names and everything.
859
00:45:15,513 --> 00:45:20,318
But I just didn't know how to go
about finding them or anything.
860
00:45:20,418 --> 00:45:21,319
We hunted.
861
00:45:21,419 --> 00:45:23,121
And we just got
turned down everyplace
862
00:45:23,221 --> 00:45:27,793
we'd turn to try to find
them till this come along.
863
00:45:27,893 --> 00:45:28,794
And it worked.
864
00:45:35,666 --> 00:45:38,003
[music playing]
865
00:45:43,474 --> 00:45:45,110
Join me next time.
866
00:45:45,210 --> 00:45:48,313
Perhaps you may be able
to help solve a mystery.
867
00:45:48,413 --> 00:45:51,082
[music playing]
67791
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