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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:04,205 --> 00:00:07,408 MALE (VOICEOVER): This program is about unsolved mysteries. 2 00:00:07,508 --> 00:00:09,443 Whenever possible, the actual family members 3 00:00:09,543 --> 00:00:11,345 and police officials have participated 4 00:00:11,445 --> 00:00:12,980 in recreating the events. 5 00:00:13,081 --> 00:00:15,283 What you are about to see is not a news broadcast. 6 00:00:20,954 --> 00:00:23,157 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): In 1884, one of the wealthiest men 7 00:00:23,257 --> 00:00:26,860 in New Mexico built his wife the finest house money could buy, 8 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:28,996 a glorious Victorian mansion. 9 00:00:29,097 --> 00:00:31,899 But after the couple's youngest daughter died, 10 00:00:31,999 --> 00:00:35,035 the lady of the house turned into a virtual recluse. 11 00:00:35,136 --> 00:00:38,172 And a lot of folks say that her spirit has haunted the mansion 12 00:00:38,272 --> 00:00:40,274 for nearly a century. 13 00:00:40,374 --> 00:00:42,210 Tonight, we'll take you along as a team 14 00:00:42,310 --> 00:00:46,013 of real life Ghostbusters tries to flush the elusive ghost out 15 00:00:46,114 --> 00:00:48,649 of hiding. 16 00:00:48,749 --> 00:00:52,453 In March of 1988, the head of a multimillion dollar drug ring 17 00:00:52,553 --> 00:00:54,888 named John Roubas was assassinated just 18 00:00:54,988 --> 00:00:57,057 outside San Juan, Puerto Rico. 19 00:00:57,158 --> 00:00:58,859 Or was he? 20 00:00:58,959 --> 00:01:02,563 Authorities now suspect someone else was murdered in his place, 21 00:01:02,663 --> 00:01:06,434 and that Roubas is very much alive. 22 00:01:06,534 --> 00:01:09,303 Legend has it that nearly 150 years ago, 23 00:01:09,403 --> 00:01:11,572 wealthy citizens in old Los Angeles 24 00:01:11,672 --> 00:01:13,474 buried their riches for safekeeping 25 00:01:13,574 --> 00:01:16,043 during the Mexican-American War. 26 00:01:16,144 --> 00:01:18,779 Is there still a fortune in gold and jewels 27 00:01:18,879 --> 00:01:21,649 hidden in the shadows of LA's downtown skyline? 28 00:01:24,418 --> 00:01:26,820 Also, a heartwarming update. 29 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:28,822 Thanks to your calls, a family has been 30 00:01:28,922 --> 00:01:32,126 reunited after 45 years apart. 31 00:01:32,226 --> 00:01:33,227 Joine me. 32 00:01:33,327 --> 00:01:36,397 Perhaps you may be able to solve a mystery. 33 00:01:36,497 --> 00:01:38,899 [music playing] 34 00:02:33,587 --> 00:02:35,055 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): This is the La Posada 35 00:02:35,155 --> 00:02:36,590 Hotel in Santa Fe, New Mexico. 36 00:02:39,593 --> 00:02:41,462 Nestled within its Adobe walls is a 37 00:02:41,562 --> 00:02:44,097 100-year-old Victorian mansion. 38 00:02:44,198 --> 00:02:45,999 Recently, that mansion has become 39 00:02:46,099 --> 00:02:49,002 the focus of an unusual, high tech investigation. 40 00:02:53,341 --> 00:02:55,943 No crime has been committed. 41 00:02:56,043 --> 00:02:58,178 No one has been hurt. 42 00:02:58,279 --> 00:03:01,148 No one has disappeared. 43 00:03:01,249 --> 00:03:02,416 It's important to look at thresholds 44 00:03:02,516 --> 00:03:03,951 as soon as you walk in as well. 45 00:03:04,051 --> 00:03:05,419 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Believe it or not, 46 00:03:05,519 --> 00:03:08,989 this team of investigators is looking for a ghost. 47 00:03:12,626 --> 00:03:13,761 So far, the information we have 48 00:03:13,861 --> 00:03:16,063 regarding the La Posada Hotel-- 49 00:03:16,163 --> 00:03:18,065 it appears to have all the characteristics of what 50 00:03:18,165 --> 00:03:23,237 is referred to as a classic haunt, because of the history, 51 00:03:23,337 --> 00:03:25,906 because of a variety of different types of witnesses 52 00:03:26,006 --> 00:03:27,975 who had this experience. 53 00:03:28,075 --> 00:03:30,077 It certainly appears to look that way, 54 00:03:30,177 --> 00:03:32,380 that it is a classic haunt. 55 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:33,947 We're trying to approach it very unbiased 56 00:03:34,047 --> 00:03:35,082 without any expectations. 57 00:03:35,182 --> 00:03:39,152 So at this point, we're not sure exactly 58 00:03:39,253 --> 00:03:42,089 what we're going to find, or what we're going to encounter. 59 00:03:44,592 --> 00:03:46,093 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): If Christopher Chacone 60 00:03:46,193 --> 00:03:48,228 and his team of real life Ghostbusters 61 00:03:48,329 --> 00:03:51,332 do encounter a spirit at the La Posada Hotel, 62 00:03:51,432 --> 00:03:55,303 she probably answers to the name Julius Stob. 63 00:03:55,403 --> 00:03:57,605 Folks around here say Julia has been haunting 64 00:03:57,705 --> 00:03:59,139 the place for nearly a century. 65 00:04:02,943 --> 00:04:04,878 Julia came to Santa Fe from Germany 66 00:04:04,978 --> 00:04:08,682 around 1870 to marry Abraham Stobb, one of the wealthiest 67 00:04:08,782 --> 00:04:11,352 men in New Mexico. 68 00:04:11,452 --> 00:04:13,821 Abraham promised Judy he would someday build her 69 00:04:13,921 --> 00:04:15,689 the finest house money could buy. 70 00:04:18,659 --> 00:04:20,928 Mazel tov. 71 00:04:21,028 --> 00:04:22,830 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Seven children and 14 years 72 00:04:22,930 --> 00:04:24,865 later, the Stobbs moved into Santa 73 00:04:24,965 --> 00:04:27,134 Fe's first Victorian mansion. 74 00:04:27,234 --> 00:04:28,902 Look at the beautiful parlor that papa 75 00:04:29,002 --> 00:04:31,939 has made mama with her favorite flower in mind. 76 00:04:32,039 --> 00:04:34,675 See the rose stained glass? 77 00:04:34,775 --> 00:04:38,612 When Julia moved into this house, 78 00:04:38,712 --> 00:04:42,550 she became the queen of Santa Fe society. 79 00:04:42,650 --> 00:04:45,686 All major affairs were held here. 80 00:04:49,557 --> 00:04:54,061 They entertained dignitaries from the government, 81 00:04:54,161 --> 00:04:57,731 President Rutherford Hayes, General 82 00:04:57,831 --> 00:05:01,335 Sherman, Governor Wallace. 83 00:05:01,435 --> 00:05:02,936 Big parties were held here. 84 00:05:03,036 --> 00:05:06,640 And one would think she was a very happy woman. 85 00:05:09,076 --> 00:05:10,411 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): In the new house, 86 00:05:10,511 --> 00:05:13,647 Julia and Abraham were blessed with an eighth child, a girl. 87 00:05:20,988 --> 00:05:23,557 But, tragically, the baby would live only a short time. 88 00:05:26,927 --> 00:05:28,261 Abraham. 89 00:05:28,362 --> 00:05:30,464 I'm so sorry. 90 00:05:30,564 --> 00:05:32,232 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): According to Betsy Sollitt, 91 00:05:32,332 --> 00:05:37,571 Julia's joy turned to sorrow overnight. 92 00:05:37,671 --> 00:05:40,541 She was so distraught over the child's death. 93 00:05:40,641 --> 00:05:45,779 And it's said that she didn't eat or sleep for two weeks. 94 00:05:45,879 --> 00:05:50,618 And when she finally slept and she awoke, and looked 95 00:05:50,718 --> 00:05:53,687 in the mirror, all of the beautiful black hair 96 00:05:53,787 --> 00:05:57,224 on her head had turned completely white. 97 00:05:57,324 --> 00:05:59,026 All of the grief went into her hair. 98 00:06:03,964 --> 00:06:05,399 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): According to legend, 99 00:06:05,499 --> 00:06:07,568 Julia Stobb withdrew from society, 100 00:06:07,668 --> 00:06:11,338 and was rarely seen outside her mansion. 101 00:06:11,439 --> 00:06:13,707 When Julia died at the age of 52, 102 00:06:13,807 --> 00:06:15,576 she seemed far older than her years. 103 00:06:22,550 --> 00:06:25,853 In 1936, the Stobb mansion was acquired by the La Posada. 104 00:06:28,489 --> 00:06:33,226 Eventually, the modern hotel was built around it. 105 00:06:33,326 --> 00:06:36,029 The front door of the mansion is reached through the lobby. 106 00:06:36,129 --> 00:06:37,898 And the Stobb home is as elegant as ever. 107 00:06:41,134 --> 00:06:43,604 The rooms upstairs, including Julia's bedroom, 108 00:06:43,704 --> 00:06:46,239 can be booked by hotel guests. 109 00:06:46,339 --> 00:06:48,876 And, Julia, over the years has had a way 110 00:06:48,976 --> 00:06:52,713 of making her presence known. 111 00:06:52,813 --> 00:06:55,048 I think there is something here. 112 00:06:55,148 --> 00:06:55,949 There's no doubt to me. 113 00:06:56,049 --> 00:06:58,652 Too many people, including guests 114 00:06:58,752 --> 00:07:01,321 who know nothing about the history of the place, 115 00:07:01,421 --> 00:07:02,990 say there is something. 116 00:07:03,090 --> 00:07:07,194 Whether it's a ghost, or whether it's some sort of energy, 117 00:07:07,294 --> 00:07:08,195 I don't know. 118 00:07:10,931 --> 00:07:13,233 Built back in 1882, and it's the first formal brick 119 00:07:13,333 --> 00:07:14,668 building built in Santa Fe. 120 00:07:14,768 --> 00:07:16,036 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Chuck Barone 121 00:07:16,136 --> 00:07:19,840 was a hardened skeptic until 1991, when he and a desk clerk 122 00:07:19,940 --> 00:07:24,144 took several guests on an impromptu tour of the hotel. 123 00:07:24,244 --> 00:07:26,747 Even though Julia's room was not occupied, 124 00:07:26,847 --> 00:07:30,283 hotel policy required the clerk to knock anyway. 125 00:07:30,383 --> 00:07:32,152 [knocking] 126 00:07:32,252 --> 00:07:35,789 WOMAN: I'm in here. 127 00:07:35,889 --> 00:07:37,157 I thought you said nobody was in there. 128 00:07:37,257 --> 00:07:40,728 Let me double check at the front desk. 129 00:07:40,828 --> 00:07:41,995 He went downstairs. 130 00:07:42,095 --> 00:07:44,798 I stayed up with the guests. 131 00:07:44,898 --> 00:07:48,869 And nobody came out the front door. 132 00:07:48,969 --> 00:07:50,470 It been several minutes. 133 00:07:50,571 --> 00:07:53,440 And by then, anything I was thinking about 134 00:07:53,541 --> 00:07:56,109 may have passed, because I figured 135 00:07:56,209 --> 00:07:58,779 there was a guest in the room. 136 00:07:58,879 --> 00:08:00,113 [knocking] 137 00:08:00,213 --> 00:08:01,882 Security. 138 00:08:01,982 --> 00:08:03,416 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Curiously, the clerk 139 00:08:03,517 --> 00:08:07,087 had returned, confirming that Julia's room was not booked. 140 00:08:07,187 --> 00:08:09,456 Hello? 141 00:08:09,557 --> 00:08:11,458 And so he knocked on the door again. 142 00:08:11,559 --> 00:08:12,359 Nothing happened. 143 00:08:12,459 --> 00:08:13,226 And we went in. 144 00:08:13,326 --> 00:08:16,664 And the room was empty. 145 00:08:16,764 --> 00:08:18,832 Nobody here. 146 00:08:18,932 --> 00:08:23,003 The windows were locked from the inside. 147 00:08:23,103 --> 00:08:26,039 Nobody had come out the door. 148 00:08:26,139 --> 00:08:28,542 And I really have no explanation for it. 149 00:08:31,311 --> 00:08:32,746 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Around a year later, 150 00:08:32,846 --> 00:08:35,883 Chuck's son John Barone, who also worked as a security 151 00:08:35,983 --> 00:08:38,218 guard, had his own weird encounter 152 00:08:38,318 --> 00:08:43,056 when he checked the men's washroom at closing time. 153 00:08:43,156 --> 00:08:43,957 Security? 154 00:08:44,057 --> 00:08:45,693 Locking up for the evening. 155 00:08:45,793 --> 00:08:48,629 It's time to go. 156 00:08:48,729 --> 00:08:50,230 I looked in the mirror. 157 00:08:50,330 --> 00:08:54,134 And there was a face, like a reflection. 158 00:08:54,234 --> 00:08:55,803 I felt a cold chill come through me. 159 00:08:55,903 --> 00:08:59,306 And something told me, it's time to leave. 160 00:08:59,406 --> 00:09:01,308 I left. 161 00:09:01,408 --> 00:09:03,143 I didn't turn off the lights. 162 00:09:03,243 --> 00:09:04,645 I didn't turn off the hall lights. 163 00:09:04,745 --> 00:09:06,980 I didn't check the female's restroom. 164 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,349 And I proceeded out the back door. 165 00:09:09,449 --> 00:09:11,518 And I didn't come back. 166 00:09:11,619 --> 00:09:13,687 I feel that it is real. 167 00:09:13,787 --> 00:09:16,957 There is no doubt in my mind, because I saw someone standing 168 00:09:17,057 --> 00:09:19,359 there looking down at us. 169 00:09:19,459 --> 00:09:23,196 And before then, I was not a believer. 170 00:09:23,296 --> 00:09:27,234 But once I saw her there, I believe 171 00:09:27,334 --> 00:09:31,238 that she is present here. 172 00:09:31,338 --> 00:09:33,707 Could you turn the TV off? 173 00:09:36,677 --> 00:09:37,945 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): This past June, 174 00:09:38,045 --> 00:09:40,914 Ross Wisenhoffer and Holly were in Santa Fe 175 00:09:41,014 --> 00:09:43,851 to attend a friend's wedding. 176 00:09:43,951 --> 00:09:45,953 Even though they stayed in the room across the hall 177 00:09:46,053 --> 00:09:50,991 from Julia's, Ross and Holly had never heard any of the stories. 178 00:09:51,091 --> 00:09:52,960 We shut the TV off. 179 00:09:53,060 --> 00:09:54,928 At that time, I was up. 180 00:09:55,028 --> 00:09:56,263 And I was trying to go back to sleep. 181 00:09:56,363 --> 00:09:58,098 And my eyes were closed. 182 00:09:58,198 --> 00:10:01,168 And at that time, I felt something staring at me. 183 00:10:05,205 --> 00:10:09,242 I saw the white apparition. 184 00:10:09,342 --> 00:10:11,378 I put my head down. 185 00:10:11,478 --> 00:10:13,814 And I'm like, my gosh, this isn't 186 00:10:13,914 --> 00:10:15,916 happening to me right now. 187 00:10:16,016 --> 00:10:19,219 And then I looked up again for the second time. 188 00:10:19,319 --> 00:10:21,221 And at that point, it started to become more defined. 189 00:10:26,093 --> 00:10:28,061 I put my head back down. 190 00:10:28,161 --> 00:10:29,797 And when I looked up the third time, 191 00:10:29,897 --> 00:10:33,033 it definitely was Julia standing there. 192 00:10:33,133 --> 00:10:36,469 Ross, what is it? 193 00:10:36,569 --> 00:10:38,939 Ross, what's going on? 194 00:10:39,039 --> 00:10:40,407 What is it? 195 00:10:40,507 --> 00:10:43,376 What are you doing? 196 00:10:43,476 --> 00:10:45,913 And at that point, I jumped up out of bed, 197 00:10:46,013 --> 00:10:46,814 flicked the lights on. 198 00:10:46,914 --> 00:10:48,048 And I said, we're out of here. 199 00:10:48,148 --> 00:10:52,419 Within five minutes, we were down at the front desk. 200 00:10:52,519 --> 00:10:53,987 I've never seen him like that. 201 00:10:54,087 --> 00:10:56,790 I've never seen him scared, especially enough 202 00:10:56,890 --> 00:10:59,059 to have goosebumps. 203 00:10:59,159 --> 00:11:01,528 He was definitely a skeptic before. 204 00:11:01,628 --> 00:11:07,667 And then once he saw this happen, he was a believer. 205 00:11:07,768 --> 00:11:10,037 So I was quite surprised. 206 00:11:10,137 --> 00:11:12,305 So this was your room? 207 00:11:12,405 --> 00:11:13,941 Yes, it was. 208 00:11:14,041 --> 00:11:15,776 All right. 209 00:11:15,876 --> 00:11:17,945 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Just two weeks later, Ross and Holly 210 00:11:18,045 --> 00:11:21,148 were back at the La Posada to talk to Christopher Chacone 211 00:11:21,248 --> 00:11:25,953 from the Office of Scientific Investigation and Research. 212 00:11:26,053 --> 00:11:28,021 When had the image, was it just getting thicker? 213 00:11:28,121 --> 00:11:29,322 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): At the hotel, 214 00:11:29,422 --> 00:11:31,591 Chacone's team of Ghostbusters included 215 00:11:31,691 --> 00:11:36,396 a physician, a psychologist, and an electrical engineer. 216 00:11:36,496 --> 00:11:38,498 It was getting more defined. 217 00:11:38,598 --> 00:11:41,601 Where would I be in relationship to where you saw? 218 00:11:41,701 --> 00:11:42,870 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Their goal-- 219 00:11:42,970 --> 00:11:45,672 to determine whether the hauntings here can be explained 220 00:11:45,773 --> 00:11:49,309 in scientific, rational terms. 221 00:11:49,409 --> 00:11:50,210 Closer. 222 00:11:50,310 --> 00:11:51,111 Closer? 223 00:11:51,211 --> 00:11:52,379 Yeah. 224 00:11:52,479 --> 00:11:53,847 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Of the 800 investigations 225 00:11:53,947 --> 00:11:57,717 of poltergeist phenomena that I've been on, 70% of them 226 00:11:57,818 --> 00:12:00,287 appear to be have rational explanations for them. 227 00:12:00,387 --> 00:12:03,490 We have found, definitively, answers. 228 00:12:03,590 --> 00:12:05,625 However, there's another 30% which, 229 00:12:05,725 --> 00:12:09,096 apparently, we cannot find a rational explanation for. 230 00:12:09,196 --> 00:12:11,398 They define the known laws of nature and physics, at least 231 00:12:11,498 --> 00:12:13,867 as we know them today. 232 00:12:13,967 --> 00:12:15,836 It might remind you. 233 00:12:15,936 --> 00:12:17,805 Could you take a look at that, and just 234 00:12:17,905 --> 00:12:20,908 tell me what comes to mind, and what you can see in there? 235 00:12:21,008 --> 00:12:22,342 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): An important part 236 00:12:22,442 --> 00:12:25,678 of each investigation is a psychological evaluation 237 00:12:25,779 --> 00:12:26,814 of the subjects. 238 00:12:26,914 --> 00:12:29,216 She's breaking bad news, or bringing 239 00:12:29,316 --> 00:12:31,384 bad news, to the family. 240 00:12:31,484 --> 00:12:33,353 Pull your arm back toward him as hard as you can. 241 00:12:33,453 --> 00:12:34,822 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Next, the subjects 242 00:12:34,922 --> 00:12:36,790 undergo a physical examination to eliminate 243 00:12:36,890 --> 00:12:41,261 any possible somatic causes for the sighting. 244 00:12:41,361 --> 00:12:42,595 One of the cases that come to mind 245 00:12:42,695 --> 00:12:46,133 is one situation where a woman had a brain tumor pressing 246 00:12:46,233 --> 00:12:47,767 against a certain part of her brain, which 247 00:12:47,868 --> 00:12:50,337 would cause these seizures. 248 00:12:50,437 --> 00:12:53,206 And it would create the illusion, at least to her, 249 00:12:53,306 --> 00:12:55,275 that some type of entity was coming and having 250 00:12:55,375 --> 00:12:56,543 physical contact with her. 251 00:12:59,579 --> 00:13:01,348 When we get to the aspect of the case where we're looking 252 00:13:01,448 --> 00:13:06,486 into the environment , we begin to take samples of the water, 253 00:13:06,586 --> 00:13:08,055 samples of the air. 254 00:13:08,155 --> 00:13:10,590 We take elements that the individual would actually 255 00:13:10,690 --> 00:13:13,193 have physical contact with, pieces of carpet with the wall, 256 00:13:13,293 --> 00:13:14,227 paint on the wall. 257 00:13:14,327 --> 00:13:15,929 We're looking for toxic elements, which 258 00:13:16,029 --> 00:13:18,999 could somehow affect them. 259 00:13:19,099 --> 00:13:21,568 For example, certain types of phosphate gases, 260 00:13:21,668 --> 00:13:24,537 when mixed with air, can produce flashes of light. 261 00:13:24,637 --> 00:13:26,806 And some might see this as poltergeist phenomena 262 00:13:26,907 --> 00:13:32,412 when, in fact, it's obviously rationally explainable. 263 00:13:32,512 --> 00:13:35,115 After examining the environment, if we don't find anything which 264 00:13:35,215 --> 00:13:39,086 is obvious, we will then proceed to set 265 00:13:39,186 --> 00:13:43,991 up equipment in the environment to do a long term surveillance. 266 00:13:44,091 --> 00:13:46,659 We would have specially designed radioactivity 267 00:13:46,759 --> 00:13:48,228 monitoring equipment. 268 00:13:48,328 --> 00:13:52,866 We look for electrostatic discharge of any type. 269 00:13:52,966 --> 00:13:54,767 We would look at the magnetic fields, 270 00:13:54,868 --> 00:13:58,471 both electromagnetic fields and geomagnetic fields. 271 00:13:58,571 --> 00:14:00,573 We would analyze the spectrum of light, 272 00:14:00,673 --> 00:14:04,444 from infrared to ultraviolet, and everything in between. 273 00:14:04,544 --> 00:14:05,879 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): The environment-- 274 00:14:05,979 --> 00:14:08,715 in this case, the upstairs rooms of the Stobb mansion-- 275 00:14:08,815 --> 00:14:11,718 is sealed off for a period of 12 to 72 hours. 276 00:14:14,821 --> 00:14:16,023 Go ahead and stand by. 277 00:14:16,123 --> 00:14:17,424 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): State of the art 278 00:14:17,524 --> 00:14:20,760 monitoring equipment, worth more than half a million dollars, 279 00:14:20,860 --> 00:14:22,395 is setup in an adjacent area. 280 00:14:26,699 --> 00:14:29,102 The team then returns to the environment, armed 281 00:14:29,202 --> 00:14:30,904 with special thermal cameras which 282 00:14:31,004 --> 00:14:32,805 measure temperature variations. 283 00:14:37,110 --> 00:14:40,247 Finally, the room is plunged into total darkness. 284 00:14:40,347 --> 00:14:43,016 The team uses the most advanced night vision equipment 285 00:14:43,116 --> 00:14:46,753 to examine the environment. 286 00:14:46,853 --> 00:14:49,923 We have floors that are lopsided. 287 00:14:50,023 --> 00:14:51,925 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): At the end of every investigation, 288 00:14:52,025 --> 00:14:54,794 the team sits down together for a case wrap up. 289 00:14:54,894 --> 00:14:56,829 Some people can perceive. 290 00:14:56,930 --> 00:14:58,631 There are no air vents. 291 00:14:58,731 --> 00:14:59,899 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): We were 292 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,834 able to analyze the environment in every possible way. 293 00:15:01,935 --> 00:15:04,404 And we did not encounter anything which 294 00:15:04,504 --> 00:15:08,841 was unusual or extraordinary. 295 00:15:08,942 --> 00:15:10,677 No vision and hearing trouble. 296 00:15:10,777 --> 00:15:13,613 OK, psychologically, I think in terms of behavioral profile, 297 00:15:13,713 --> 00:15:14,781 I see-- 298 00:15:14,881 --> 00:15:17,817 The examinations performed on Russ and Holly 299 00:15:17,917 --> 00:15:20,487 prove that they are, in fact, very credible witnesses. 300 00:15:20,587 --> 00:15:21,921 Functioning individuals. 301 00:15:22,022 --> 00:15:24,091 I see no evidence of any suspicions. 302 00:15:24,191 --> 00:15:27,194 Based on the results of the investigations we've conducted 303 00:15:27,294 --> 00:15:30,163 here, we haven't found any facts to disprove the fact 304 00:15:30,263 --> 00:15:32,899 that the La Posada is haunted. 305 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:34,801 There certainly, then, is that possibility 306 00:15:34,901 --> 00:15:37,870 that there is unusual paranormal phenomena taking place here. 307 00:15:40,740 --> 00:15:42,142 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Christopher Chacone 308 00:15:42,242 --> 00:15:44,811 and his team do plan to return to the hotel at least 309 00:15:44,911 --> 00:15:47,614 once more to search for definitive signs of a haunting. 310 00:15:50,483 --> 00:15:53,853 In the meantime, if you should find yourself in Santa Fe, 311 00:15:53,953 --> 00:15:56,589 if you should check into one of the rooms in the original Stobb 312 00:15:56,689 --> 00:16:00,793 mansion, it might not be a bad idea to leave a single red rose 313 00:16:00,893 --> 00:16:02,462 on the windowsill. 314 00:16:02,562 --> 00:16:05,598 After all, rumor has it that it was 315 00:16:05,698 --> 00:16:07,367 Julius Stobb's favorite flower. 316 00:16:13,140 --> 00:16:17,277 When we return, the puzzling death of John Roubas. 317 00:16:17,377 --> 00:16:20,047 Did a cunning drug lord stage his own murder 318 00:16:20,147 --> 00:16:22,149 to evade capture? 319 00:16:22,249 --> 00:16:23,616 [music playing] 320 00:16:31,458 --> 00:16:33,160 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): March 7th, 1988-- 321 00:16:33,260 --> 00:16:36,029 San Juan, Puerto Rico. 322 00:16:36,129 --> 00:16:38,398 Flames consumed a late model car that 323 00:16:38,498 --> 00:16:41,534 had apparently been abandoned in a remote corner of the city. 324 00:16:45,038 --> 00:16:46,973 The next morning, local authorities 325 00:16:47,074 --> 00:16:48,975 found the remains of a body charred 326 00:16:49,076 --> 00:16:51,711 beyond recognition in the back seat of the car. 327 00:16:56,183 --> 00:16:57,850 The only evidence that might eventually 328 00:16:57,950 --> 00:17:00,987 lead to an ID of a victim was a fragment of jaw bone 329 00:17:01,088 --> 00:17:05,425 and four loose teeth recovered from the ashes. 330 00:17:05,525 --> 00:17:07,727 One week later, anonymous informant 331 00:17:07,827 --> 00:17:12,031 told police that the dead man was John Roubas. 332 00:17:12,132 --> 00:17:14,567 It was a name authorities knew well. 333 00:17:14,667 --> 00:17:17,470 John Scott Roubas was a ringleader of a multimillion 334 00:17:17,570 --> 00:17:19,472 dollar drug network. 335 00:17:19,572 --> 00:17:22,409 Headquartered in Puerto Rico, the Roubas operation 336 00:17:22,509 --> 00:17:24,577 had a virtual monopoly on cocaine 337 00:17:24,677 --> 00:17:30,083 and marijuana distribution in the Midwestern United States. 338 00:17:30,183 --> 00:17:33,820 We were able to obtain dental records from John 339 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,889 Roubas' dentist in Florida. 340 00:17:36,989 --> 00:17:40,393 And we shipped those dental records to a pathologist 341 00:17:40,493 --> 00:17:44,131 in Puerto Rico, who had found in the burnt automobile 342 00:17:44,231 --> 00:17:46,966 four loose teeth and a piece of a jaw bone. 343 00:17:47,066 --> 00:17:50,837 That pathologist identified those loose teeth 344 00:17:50,937 --> 00:17:54,073 as being those of John Roubas. 345 00:17:54,174 --> 00:17:55,275 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): For years, 346 00:17:55,375 --> 00:17:57,043 Roubas had alluded law enforcement 347 00:17:57,144 --> 00:17:58,678 in several countries. 348 00:17:58,778 --> 00:18:00,647 Now, fire had apparently accomplished 349 00:18:00,747 --> 00:18:02,249 what the law could not. 350 00:18:02,349 --> 00:18:04,684 John Roubas was out of business. 351 00:18:04,784 --> 00:18:05,585 Or was he? 352 00:18:08,955 --> 00:18:11,758 It began with a few whispered rumors. 353 00:18:11,858 --> 00:18:14,294 But in the months that followed the grisly discovery in Puerto 354 00:18:14,394 --> 00:18:17,630 Rico, authorities began to suspect that the fiery death 355 00:18:17,730 --> 00:18:21,568 of John Roubas was, in fact, a cunning hoax, a ruse 356 00:18:21,668 --> 00:18:23,903 to avoid prosecution. 357 00:18:24,003 --> 00:18:26,206 Tonight, in an exclusive interview 358 00:18:26,306 --> 00:18:28,775 a former member of the drug lord's inner circle 359 00:18:28,875 --> 00:18:30,743 claims that John Roubas is very much 360 00:18:30,843 --> 00:18:32,979 alive, and as busy as ever. 361 00:18:36,115 --> 00:18:37,317 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): The sprawling 362 00:18:37,417 --> 00:18:41,354 empire of John Roubas operated with military precision. 363 00:18:41,454 --> 00:18:43,256 A fleet of small airplanes ferried 364 00:18:43,356 --> 00:18:46,693 tons of cocaine and marijuana from secret plantations 365 00:18:46,793 --> 00:18:49,796 deep in the jungles of Colombia, Panama, and Jamaica. 366 00:18:52,799 --> 00:18:55,702 The flights converged at the island of Puerto Rico. 367 00:18:55,802 --> 00:18:57,270 The drugs were repackaged, and then 368 00:18:57,370 --> 00:19:00,807 shipped into the United States through Milwaukee and Chicago. 369 00:19:00,907 --> 00:19:04,076 Between 1981 and '85, Roubas slipped 370 00:19:04,177 --> 00:19:07,480 an estimated $30 million worth of drugs into the US. 371 00:19:11,218 --> 00:19:14,153 The Roubas operation was a model of efficiency. 372 00:19:14,254 --> 00:19:16,389 At prearranged times, illicit cargoes 373 00:19:16,489 --> 00:19:18,725 arriving from South America were dropped just 374 00:19:18,825 --> 00:19:20,860 off the coast of Puerto Rico. 375 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:22,895 Small boats were already in place 376 00:19:22,995 --> 00:19:24,397 waiting to retrieve the drugs. 377 00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:29,769 In most cases, Roubas had hands 378 00:19:29,869 --> 00:19:32,138 on with the drug trafficking. 379 00:19:32,239 --> 00:19:35,908 Where a lot of the higher echelon drug traffickers 380 00:19:36,008 --> 00:19:37,377 normally would stay in the background, 381 00:19:37,477 --> 00:19:40,380 Roubas came to the foreground and actively got involved 382 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:41,981 in the distribution process. 383 00:19:44,717 --> 00:19:45,952 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): The drugs 384 00:19:46,052 --> 00:19:48,221 were brought from the beach to a hidden processing plant 385 00:19:48,321 --> 00:19:50,323 in the Puerto Rican highlands. 386 00:19:50,423 --> 00:19:52,359 There, the large bundles were broken down 387 00:19:52,459 --> 00:19:54,394 into one pound packages that could readily 388 00:19:54,494 --> 00:19:55,862 be smuggled into the US. 389 00:19:58,765 --> 00:20:04,070 John is one of the craftiest guys I've ever met in my life. 390 00:20:04,170 --> 00:20:11,878 And his ability to smuggle drugs into the United States 391 00:20:11,978 --> 00:20:14,146 unmolested-- 392 00:20:14,247 --> 00:20:16,749 you know, he had several years, maybe five, six, seven, 393 00:20:16,849 --> 00:20:19,185 eight years of successful smuggling 394 00:20:19,286 --> 00:20:23,523 with no type of wiretapping or anything. 395 00:20:23,623 --> 00:20:24,657 Don't get funny with my stuff. 396 00:20:24,757 --> 00:20:28,194 You know, he ran a real stiff organization. 397 00:20:28,295 --> 00:20:29,095 Hey, Pablo! 398 00:20:29,195 --> 00:20:31,230 Come here. 399 00:20:31,331 --> 00:20:34,200 Roubas was very ruthless. 400 00:20:34,301 --> 00:20:36,369 That's typical of the drug business. 401 00:20:36,469 --> 00:20:39,606 You have to gain your respect through fear. 402 00:20:39,706 --> 00:20:41,508 And Roubas was very good at it. 403 00:20:44,477 --> 00:20:46,178 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): In one notorious incident, 404 00:20:46,279 --> 00:20:48,281 Roubas supposedly became suspicious 405 00:20:48,381 --> 00:20:50,016 that one of his pilots was running 406 00:20:50,116 --> 00:20:53,820 his own smuggling operation using a company plane. 407 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:55,988 I see that it takes you twice the time 408 00:20:56,088 --> 00:20:58,958 using twice as much fuel, I get nervous. 409 00:20:59,058 --> 00:21:00,026 Yeah, but we have a problem-- 410 00:21:00,126 --> 00:21:03,296 Sit down! 411 00:21:03,396 --> 00:21:04,797 We have problems. 412 00:21:08,901 --> 00:21:11,137 John, you've got the wrong man here. 413 00:21:11,237 --> 00:21:12,805 Yeah, that's right. 414 00:21:12,905 --> 00:21:14,073 I got the wrong man. 415 00:21:14,173 --> 00:21:14,974 Mr. Roubas. 416 00:21:15,074 --> 00:21:19,145 [speaking spanish] 417 00:21:19,245 --> 00:21:20,246 What do you think it would take 418 00:21:20,347 --> 00:21:21,948 for me to pull the trigger? 419 00:21:22,048 --> 00:21:23,950 What do you think it would take? 420 00:21:24,050 --> 00:21:26,586 What do you think it would take? 421 00:21:26,686 --> 00:21:28,788 Go on, get out of here! 422 00:21:28,888 --> 00:21:29,822 Get out! 423 00:21:29,922 --> 00:21:30,723 Get out! 424 00:21:34,427 --> 00:21:36,329 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Roubas ruled with such an iron hand 425 00:21:36,429 --> 00:21:40,066 that it took investigators years to penetrate the organization, 426 00:21:40,166 --> 00:21:43,403 locate the hidden processing plant, and close in on Roubas 427 00:21:43,503 --> 00:21:45,438 himself. 428 00:21:45,538 --> 00:21:49,041 By December of 1987, authorities in the United States 429 00:21:49,141 --> 00:21:52,612 had enough evidence to charge 37 members of the ring. 430 00:21:52,712 --> 00:21:56,983 Every one of them was arrested, everyone but John Roubas. 431 00:21:57,083 --> 00:21:59,251 He seemed to have vanished into thin air. 432 00:22:03,022 --> 00:22:04,957 Three months later, the charred remains 433 00:22:05,057 --> 00:22:07,594 were identified as Roubas based solely on the four 434 00:22:07,694 --> 00:22:10,497 teeth found at the scene. 435 00:22:10,597 --> 00:22:12,932 In the United States, the outstanding charges 436 00:22:13,032 --> 00:22:14,801 against Roubas were dropped. 437 00:22:14,901 --> 00:22:17,837 In Puerto Rico, police uncovered a vendetta 438 00:22:17,937 --> 00:22:19,606 that had apparently led to the murder 439 00:22:19,706 --> 00:22:22,709 of the fugitive drug lord. 440 00:22:22,809 --> 00:22:25,478 Donald Kurtzer, a former associate of Roubas, 441 00:22:25,578 --> 00:22:28,347 was convicted of masterminding the hit. 442 00:22:28,448 --> 00:22:30,950 Allegedly, Roubas was killed in retaliation 443 00:22:31,050 --> 00:22:33,252 for raping both Kurtzer's girlfriend 444 00:22:33,352 --> 00:22:38,024 and the 14-year-old daughter of Kurtzer's housekeeper. 445 00:22:38,124 --> 00:22:40,026 According to Puerto Rican authorities, 446 00:22:40,126 --> 00:22:42,562 the night of his death, Roubas arrived at the airport 447 00:22:42,662 --> 00:22:43,996 in San Juan. 448 00:22:44,096 --> 00:22:46,132 He was met there by two women, one of whom 449 00:22:46,232 --> 00:22:48,935 was ultimately convicted in the case. 450 00:22:49,035 --> 00:22:51,070 Although he rarely drank, Roubas was 451 00:22:51,170 --> 00:22:53,339 said to be heavily intoxicated. 452 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,275 We were so worried about you. 453 00:22:56,375 --> 00:22:57,243 Worried? 454 00:22:57,343 --> 00:23:00,580 Honey, I missed you. 455 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,248 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Explaining that they had 456 00:23:02,348 --> 00:23:04,517 an unexpected errand, the women drove 457 00:23:04,617 --> 00:23:08,287 their passenger to a deserted area on the outskirts of town. 458 00:23:08,387 --> 00:23:09,756 Hey, where are we? 459 00:23:36,783 --> 00:23:38,651 [gunshots] 460 00:23:56,335 --> 00:23:57,470 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Officially, 461 00:23:57,570 --> 00:23:59,606 John Roubas ceased to exist-- 462 00:23:59,706 --> 00:24:01,040 officially. 463 00:24:01,140 --> 00:24:02,008 [phone ringing] 464 00:24:02,108 --> 00:24:03,910 Hey, what's up? 465 00:24:04,010 --> 00:24:05,612 JOHN: It's John. 466 00:24:05,712 --> 00:24:06,513 John? 467 00:24:06,613 --> 00:24:08,047 Where have you been? 468 00:24:08,147 --> 00:24:11,417 But A few months later, his former associate Richard 469 00:24:11,518 --> 00:24:13,352 received a call from a dead man. 470 00:24:13,452 --> 00:24:14,286 What do you mean? 471 00:24:14,386 --> 00:24:15,522 JOHN: I mean it's not a good time 472 00:24:15,622 --> 00:24:17,757 to go down there right now. 473 00:24:17,857 --> 00:24:20,192 All right, I think I know what you're talking about. 474 00:24:20,292 --> 00:24:21,427 JOHN: They closed down the old house. 475 00:24:21,528 --> 00:24:23,863 A lot of people have been picked up. 476 00:24:23,963 --> 00:24:25,932 I have no doubt about it being John Roubas. 477 00:24:26,032 --> 00:24:30,369 You know, we had acquaintance over an extensive period 478 00:24:30,469 --> 00:24:31,804 of time. 479 00:24:31,904 --> 00:24:36,442 So I mean, you know, I'd know his voice anywhere. 480 00:24:36,543 --> 00:24:38,678 We also began to receive information through some 481 00:24:38,778 --> 00:24:40,747 various other of the co-defendants that had been 482 00:24:40,847 --> 00:24:43,282 charged in the case that, perhaps, 483 00:24:43,382 --> 00:24:45,317 Roubas was alive, that they had seen him, 484 00:24:45,417 --> 00:24:47,119 that they had talked to him. 485 00:24:47,219 --> 00:24:50,823 And what was reported to us was that one of the defendants 486 00:24:50,923 --> 00:24:54,360 wives had received a telephone call from a person 487 00:24:54,460 --> 00:24:58,164 that she identified as John Roubas. 488 00:24:58,264 --> 00:24:59,431 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Authorities 489 00:24:59,532 --> 00:25:02,602 have another reason to believe Roubas is still alive. 490 00:25:02,702 --> 00:25:07,406 He was simply too smart to let himself be trapped. 491 00:25:07,506 --> 00:25:09,976 John Roubas in the business he was involved in, 492 00:25:10,076 --> 00:25:13,980 illegal narcotics, was a very suspicious individual, 493 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,949 and took a lot of precaution to protect himself. 494 00:25:17,049 --> 00:25:20,019 He never traveled alone. 495 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,221 And when he did travel, he always traveled armed. 496 00:25:22,321 --> 00:25:24,924 So the facts that were put together just 497 00:25:25,024 --> 00:25:29,261 did not fit well with what we knew of John Roubas. 498 00:25:29,361 --> 00:25:30,462 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Two people 499 00:25:30,563 --> 00:25:32,565 have served time in Puerto Rican prisons 500 00:25:32,665 --> 00:25:34,834 for the murder of John Roubas. 501 00:25:34,934 --> 00:25:36,769 But was Roubas truly the victim? 502 00:25:36,869 --> 00:25:42,008 Or was someone else assassinated in his place? 503 00:25:42,108 --> 00:25:44,410 Roubas was fully capable of staging his own death, 504 00:25:44,510 --> 00:25:46,045 and may well have had his own teeth 505 00:25:46,145 --> 00:25:49,682 extracted in order to accomplish a false identification 506 00:25:49,782 --> 00:25:51,017 of a body. 507 00:25:51,117 --> 00:25:54,386 And I believe that there is substantial reason to believe 508 00:25:54,486 --> 00:25:57,690 that John Roubas is alive. 509 00:25:57,790 --> 00:25:59,926 It wasn't he could have. 510 00:26:00,026 --> 00:26:02,829 He did pull it off. 511 00:26:02,929 --> 00:26:04,263 I know John pretty well. 512 00:26:04,363 --> 00:26:09,501 I mean, and John is a very mystique type of guy. 513 00:26:09,602 --> 00:26:11,203 One thing that he would never do was 514 00:26:11,303 --> 00:26:15,274 corner himself in a situation where he couldn't get out. 515 00:26:15,374 --> 00:26:20,546 He always had an exit that most people didn't know about. 516 00:26:20,647 --> 00:26:25,051 Bottom line is that John Roubas still rides. 517 00:26:25,151 --> 00:26:27,519 [music playing] 518 00:26:40,900 --> 00:26:42,168 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): When we return, 519 00:26:42,268 --> 00:26:44,236 surprising discoveries in a treasure 520 00:26:44,336 --> 00:26:46,205 hunt in downtown Los Angeles. 521 00:26:46,305 --> 00:26:48,174 [music playing] 522 00:26:57,149 --> 00:26:58,885 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Spanish doubloons, 523 00:26:58,985 --> 00:27:02,154 royal jewels, chests of gold-- 524 00:27:02,254 --> 00:27:04,924 in our experience, there's nothing like an old legend 525 00:27:05,024 --> 00:27:07,059 of buried treasure to lure otherwise 526 00:27:07,159 --> 00:27:12,598 sensible folks into the wilderness to risk their lives. 527 00:27:12,699 --> 00:27:15,968 While these tales may be rich in history and folklore, 528 00:27:16,068 --> 00:27:17,569 we've learned that they don't usually 529 00:27:17,670 --> 00:27:19,638 amount to much when it comes to actually 530 00:27:19,739 --> 00:27:21,107 finding anything of value. 531 00:27:23,976 --> 00:27:27,046 That is, until we heard about the buried treasures of Elysian 532 00:27:27,146 --> 00:27:32,118 Park, 575 acres of hills and secluded canyons 533 00:27:32,218 --> 00:27:35,621 situated just two miles from the heart of downtown Los Angeles. 534 00:27:38,524 --> 00:27:41,728 In June of 1994, "Unsolved Mysteries" 535 00:27:41,828 --> 00:27:44,697 brought in a team of historical researchers and high tech 536 00:27:44,797 --> 00:27:47,700 surveyors to follow up age old rumors 537 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,237 of buried gold and jewels that would now be worth millions. 538 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,608 Incredibly, the sensitive instruments 539 00:27:56,709 --> 00:27:59,779 revealed that the legendary treasures of Elysian Park 540 00:27:59,879 --> 00:28:01,647 may, in fact, be real. 541 00:28:05,918 --> 00:28:10,156 It seems hard to believe that 150 years ago Los Angeles was 542 00:28:10,256 --> 00:28:12,925 just a dusty pueblo, a quiet outpost 543 00:28:13,025 --> 00:28:15,962 in the northernmost territory of Mexico. 544 00:28:16,062 --> 00:28:21,868 But that way of life came to a sudden end in 1846. 545 00:28:21,968 --> 00:28:25,738 War had erupted between Mexico and the United States. 546 00:28:25,838 --> 00:28:28,775 According to stories handed down over the years, 547 00:28:28,875 --> 00:28:32,879 well-to-do Angelenos panicked as American forces drew near. 548 00:28:32,979 --> 00:28:35,547 Some dug elaborate escape tunnels. 549 00:28:35,647 --> 00:28:38,417 Others buried their family fortunes for safekeeping. 550 00:28:50,196 --> 00:28:53,833 This was the best thing that they could do to protect 551 00:28:53,933 --> 00:28:55,634 their valuables at the time. 552 00:28:55,734 --> 00:28:59,005 And it was a customary way, because there were no banks. 553 00:28:59,105 --> 00:29:01,908 If you wanted to protect something, bury it, hide it. 554 00:29:06,612 --> 00:29:08,981 Elysian park was the most logical place 555 00:29:09,081 --> 00:29:12,885 for people living in the Los Angeles area at that time 556 00:29:12,985 --> 00:29:15,421 to bury treasure. 557 00:29:15,521 --> 00:29:16,856 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Through the years, 558 00:29:16,956 --> 00:29:20,292 stories circulated that some families never came back, 559 00:29:20,392 --> 00:29:22,628 and that their treasures were still waiting to be 560 00:29:22,728 --> 00:29:24,530 discovered in Elysian Park. 561 00:29:27,900 --> 00:29:33,105 In 1984, two sisters hired Roy Roche to explore in the park. 562 00:29:33,205 --> 00:29:35,107 The women recall their father searching 563 00:29:35,207 --> 00:29:38,310 for one of the fabled treasures when they were children. 564 00:29:38,410 --> 00:29:42,048 Soon, they located a spot that seemed familiar. 565 00:29:42,148 --> 00:29:45,885 It might have been there. 566 00:29:45,985 --> 00:29:48,120 I realized that this was an excellent place to bury 567 00:29:48,220 --> 00:29:54,526 treasure, because it was a place where you could dig 568 00:29:54,626 --> 00:29:57,796 a good-sized tunnel without being observed, because there 569 00:29:57,897 --> 00:30:01,167 was trees and hills. 570 00:30:01,267 --> 00:30:02,368 Well, the first thing that attracted 571 00:30:02,468 --> 00:30:06,505 my attention was on the side of a sandstone bluff 572 00:30:06,605 --> 00:30:09,541 were three indentations. 573 00:30:09,641 --> 00:30:13,312 The holes seemed to be rather symmetrical and rather smooth, 574 00:30:13,412 --> 00:30:16,548 and looked like it probably could be man made. 575 00:30:16,648 --> 00:30:17,984 However, it was quite possible that they 576 00:30:18,084 --> 00:30:20,486 could be natural also. 577 00:30:20,586 --> 00:30:23,455 So keeping that in mind, I'm now looking around 578 00:30:23,555 --> 00:30:26,392 for some other signs and symbols. 579 00:30:26,492 --> 00:30:33,132 About 75 feet away at the same level on the side of the hill, 580 00:30:33,232 --> 00:30:35,634 I discovered some initials carved 581 00:30:35,734 --> 00:30:37,003 in the side of another rock. 582 00:30:44,143 --> 00:30:46,178 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Halfway between the two signs, 583 00:30:46,278 --> 00:30:49,348 Roy spotted exactly what he had been looking for-- 584 00:30:49,448 --> 00:30:52,919 evidence of an old tunnel. 585 00:30:53,019 --> 00:30:55,554 I think I found something. 586 00:30:55,654 --> 00:30:57,323 It was not military. 587 00:30:57,423 --> 00:30:59,591 It was not a miner's tunnel. 588 00:30:59,691 --> 00:31:01,027 It was not for building. 589 00:31:01,127 --> 00:31:04,163 It was not an old toilet pit. 590 00:31:04,263 --> 00:31:05,131 It all came together. 591 00:31:05,231 --> 00:31:06,732 It was perfect. 592 00:31:06,832 --> 00:31:08,234 Obviously, it was a treasure shaft. 593 00:31:08,334 --> 00:31:12,771 There was no other reason for this hole being there. 594 00:31:12,871 --> 00:31:14,173 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): It seems simple, 595 00:31:14,273 --> 00:31:17,143 removed dirt, claim treasure. 596 00:31:17,243 --> 00:31:19,979 The sisters said they had permits from park officials. 597 00:31:20,079 --> 00:31:22,848 But Roy suggested that the crew dig at night 598 00:31:22,949 --> 00:31:26,085 to avoid attracting rivals. 599 00:31:26,185 --> 00:31:28,554 We got down about 25 feet. 600 00:31:28,654 --> 00:31:31,790 And I got a fairly good signal right 601 00:31:31,890 --> 00:31:32,925 in the center of the hole. 602 00:31:36,095 --> 00:31:39,365 We all got excited, because metal detectors don't 603 00:31:39,465 --> 00:31:40,732 lie in a situation like that. 604 00:31:47,839 --> 00:31:49,508 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): The instrument had, indeed, 605 00:31:49,608 --> 00:31:51,843 detected buried artifacts. 606 00:31:51,944 --> 00:31:56,682 But they were not exactly what Roy Roche was looking for. 607 00:31:56,782 --> 00:32:01,453 We uncovered two very old flashlight batteries, 608 00:32:01,553 --> 00:32:04,190 the oldest flashlight batteries I'd ever seen. 609 00:32:04,290 --> 00:32:06,993 Even though I got no more readings with my metal detector 610 00:32:07,093 --> 00:32:10,729 after we uncovered the two flashlight batteries, 611 00:32:10,829 --> 00:32:11,630 we kept digging. 612 00:32:15,201 --> 00:32:17,136 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): 30 feet into the tunnel, 613 00:32:17,236 --> 00:32:18,904 another artifact-- 614 00:32:19,005 --> 00:32:23,342 the frayed end of a very old, crudely made rope. 615 00:32:23,442 --> 00:32:25,744 This was bad news, because after finding the two 616 00:32:25,844 --> 00:32:29,248 old flashlight batteries and a piece of rope, 617 00:32:29,348 --> 00:32:31,017 it was quite obvious that somebody 618 00:32:31,117 --> 00:32:35,554 else had already beat us to the treasure years before. 619 00:32:35,654 --> 00:32:36,888 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): For Roy Roche, 620 00:32:36,989 --> 00:32:39,558 it was a treasure hunter's worst nightmare. 621 00:32:39,658 --> 00:32:44,396 He was certain he had found the right spot, but far too late. 622 00:32:44,496 --> 00:32:47,199 Well, whatever was in there was big and heavy. 623 00:32:47,299 --> 00:32:49,868 Somebody has beat us to it. 624 00:32:49,968 --> 00:32:52,338 It was a combination of gratification 625 00:32:52,438 --> 00:32:53,739 and disappointment. 626 00:32:53,839 --> 00:32:59,845 The gratification was that we had correctly found a treasure 627 00:32:59,945 --> 00:33:03,182 tunnel and had excavated it. 628 00:33:03,282 --> 00:33:06,385 But the disappointment was that after all the time, and money, 629 00:33:06,485 --> 00:33:09,121 and work, and effort that we put into it, 630 00:33:09,221 --> 00:33:10,922 we had nothing to show for our efforts 631 00:33:11,023 --> 00:33:12,758 except a couple of old flashlight batteries 632 00:33:12,858 --> 00:33:13,659 and a piece of rope. 633 00:33:15,794 --> 00:33:17,196 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Although he came up 634 00:33:17,296 --> 00:33:20,099 empty handed, Roy Roche believes there are still 635 00:33:20,199 --> 00:33:23,469 buried treasures in Elysian Park with a total value 636 00:33:23,569 --> 00:33:25,003 approaching $1 million. 637 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,676 To test that theory, "Unsolved Mysteries" 638 00:33:30,776 --> 00:33:33,712 called upon experts from the National Underwater and Marine 639 00:33:33,812 --> 00:33:37,649 Agency, or NUMA, a nonprofit group that conducts 640 00:33:37,749 --> 00:33:40,419 both ocean and ground surveys. 641 00:33:40,519 --> 00:33:42,888 Their surface investigation was fully 642 00:33:42,988 --> 00:33:45,957 approved by city officials. 643 00:33:46,058 --> 00:33:47,759 All right, guys, let's go. 644 00:33:47,859 --> 00:33:49,961 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): The sensing device emits 645 00:33:50,062 --> 00:33:53,265 radar waves as it has dragged across the field. 646 00:33:53,365 --> 00:33:55,601 A cross section of what lies underground 647 00:33:55,701 --> 00:33:59,037 shows up on this monitor. 648 00:33:59,138 --> 00:34:02,808 An anomaly such as a cannon, or perhaps a treasure chest, 649 00:34:02,908 --> 00:34:05,344 would appear on the screen as a discernible shape 650 00:34:05,444 --> 00:34:08,447 among the colors. 651 00:34:08,547 --> 00:34:10,116 Now, if there is a foreign object in there, 652 00:34:10,216 --> 00:34:12,351 like maybe a box or a cannon, something that doesn't 653 00:34:12,451 --> 00:34:14,052 belong there, we can see it. 654 00:34:14,153 --> 00:34:15,554 We have an image of it. 655 00:34:15,654 --> 00:34:17,423 And we don't know what it's made of yet. 656 00:34:17,523 --> 00:34:21,427 So we'll come back over and do an electromagnetic survey 657 00:34:21,527 --> 00:34:24,496 to see if that can-type object is a log, 658 00:34:24,596 --> 00:34:26,064 or really has some metal to it. 659 00:34:26,165 --> 00:34:28,667 Or that box could have some gold or silver in it, 660 00:34:28,767 --> 00:34:30,068 or if it's just a wooden box. 661 00:34:32,838 --> 00:34:34,673 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): After the survey was completed, 662 00:34:34,773 --> 00:34:36,842 computers translated the information 663 00:34:36,942 --> 00:34:39,611 into these cross sections. 664 00:34:39,711 --> 00:34:41,913 Here is the first anomaly. 665 00:34:42,013 --> 00:34:44,583 Though open to interpretation, these marks 666 00:34:44,683 --> 00:34:48,154 could suggest the presence of a vertical tunnel running 667 00:34:48,254 --> 00:34:51,957 to a depth of roughly 30 feet. 668 00:34:52,057 --> 00:34:53,925 The second anomaly was detected less 669 00:34:54,025 --> 00:34:56,395 than 10 feet below the surface. 670 00:34:56,495 --> 00:34:59,165 The survey findings indicate that this anomaly 671 00:34:59,265 --> 00:35:03,902 is not only a solid object, but is also metallic. 672 00:35:04,002 --> 00:35:05,937 If there is treasure here, I would 673 00:35:06,037 --> 00:35:07,939 prefer to see it stay here. 674 00:35:08,039 --> 00:35:09,375 I'd like to keep that mystery alive. 675 00:35:09,475 --> 00:35:13,044 I think it adds to the mystique of this park. 676 00:35:13,145 --> 00:35:16,315 I think it's something that people would probably continue 677 00:35:16,415 --> 00:35:18,817 to talk about in the future, and help 678 00:35:18,917 --> 00:35:20,919 to keep the mystique of the treasure that 679 00:35:21,019 --> 00:35:22,454 might be in Elysian Park alive. 680 00:35:26,525 --> 00:35:28,794 Representatives of NUMA believe the anomalies 681 00:35:28,894 --> 00:35:31,497 may be important relics from the city's history, 682 00:35:31,597 --> 00:35:33,965 links to its Mexican past. 683 00:35:34,065 --> 00:35:37,303 However, it is unlikely we will ever know for sure. 684 00:35:37,403 --> 00:35:39,738 Obtaining a permit to excavate in Los Angeles 685 00:35:39,838 --> 00:35:42,608 is even more difficult than finding a buried treasure. 686 00:35:42,708 --> 00:35:46,345 And digging without a permit is strictly against the law. 687 00:35:46,445 --> 00:35:49,648 Violators are subject to arrest, and could end up in jail, 688 00:35:49,748 --> 00:35:51,650 rather than on easy street. 689 00:35:54,886 --> 00:35:57,223 Next, a man searches for the American soldier 690 00:35:57,323 --> 00:36:00,158 who helped save his family during the final days 691 00:36:00,259 --> 00:36:02,561 of the Second World War. 692 00:36:02,661 --> 00:36:04,496 [music playing] 693 00:36:09,901 --> 00:36:11,770 Recently, we received a rather unusual 694 00:36:11,870 --> 00:36:14,039 letter from one of our viewers. 695 00:36:14,139 --> 00:36:16,508 She called her attention to the moving story of a man 696 00:36:16,608 --> 00:36:18,977 she knows in Germany who is looking for someone here 697 00:36:19,077 --> 00:36:20,979 in the United States. 698 00:36:21,079 --> 00:36:24,650 Needless to say, we were both intrigued and anxious to help. 699 00:36:24,750 --> 00:36:27,219 So this past summer we traveled to Europe, 700 00:36:27,319 --> 00:36:29,154 and came back with a poignant mystery 701 00:36:29,255 --> 00:36:31,122 of kindness and compassion. 702 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:35,894 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): For more than a decade, 703 00:36:35,994 --> 00:36:38,897 Siegfried and Marguerite Laier of Germany 704 00:36:38,997 --> 00:36:42,401 have been searching for an unsung American hero, 705 00:36:42,501 --> 00:36:45,070 a young soldier who forged an unlikely friendship 706 00:36:45,170 --> 00:36:47,639 with Siegfried when he was just a small boy 707 00:36:47,739 --> 00:36:49,174 nearly half a century ago. 708 00:36:51,777 --> 00:36:57,616 1945, the final days of the Second World War-- 709 00:36:57,716 --> 00:37:00,252 for Germany civilian population, it was a time 710 00:37:00,352 --> 00:37:01,520 of uncertainty and despair. 711 00:37:04,155 --> 00:37:05,924 Among the innocent victims was young 712 00:37:06,024 --> 00:37:08,860 Siegfried Laier, whose neighborhood of Ludwigshaven 713 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,562 was leveled by Allied bombers. 714 00:37:13,565 --> 00:37:16,234 Siegfried's mother immediately fled with her three youngest 715 00:37:16,335 --> 00:37:17,736 children. 716 00:37:17,836 --> 00:37:21,006 The Lyres walk 125 miles to take refuge 717 00:37:21,106 --> 00:37:24,042 with relatives in a village. 718 00:37:24,142 --> 00:37:26,978 They quickly discovered that the hardships, especially 719 00:37:27,078 --> 00:37:28,547 for children, were universal. 720 00:37:33,151 --> 00:37:34,420 INTERPRETER (VOICEOVER): It was very bad. 721 00:37:40,359 --> 00:37:42,160 I was four when the war ended. 722 00:37:42,260 --> 00:37:46,197 There was very little food to be had. 723 00:37:46,298 --> 00:37:49,167 We had to go with [inaudible] vouchers and buy food. 724 00:37:49,267 --> 00:37:50,536 But there wasn't much around. 725 00:37:54,105 --> 00:37:55,907 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): In March of 1945, 726 00:37:56,007 --> 00:37:59,845 American troops rolled into Morlanbach. 727 00:37:59,945 --> 00:38:03,148 The German citizens had feared the worst, a conquering army 728 00:38:03,248 --> 00:38:04,916 bent on revenge. 729 00:38:05,016 --> 00:38:07,152 But instead, they encountered a benevolent corps 730 00:38:07,252 --> 00:38:12,257 of occupiers who provided them with food and medical supplies. 731 00:38:12,358 --> 00:38:15,327 One of the GIs was a young man named Alexander. 732 00:38:18,497 --> 00:38:20,966 You want something? 733 00:38:21,066 --> 00:38:25,371 Come here, it's chocolate. 734 00:38:25,471 --> 00:38:26,271 Come here. 735 00:38:26,372 --> 00:38:28,507 It's all right. 736 00:38:28,607 --> 00:38:33,445 Hey, can you say chocolate? 737 00:38:33,545 --> 00:38:34,346 Chocolate. 738 00:38:34,446 --> 00:38:35,246 Very good. 739 00:38:37,983 --> 00:38:39,551 INTERPRETER (VOICEOVER): He was sympathetic to me, 740 00:38:39,651 --> 00:38:41,687 and friendly. 741 00:38:41,787 --> 00:38:44,122 Yes, will you take this home? 742 00:38:44,222 --> 00:38:45,824 INTERPRETER (VOICEOVER): If it hadn't been for him, 743 00:38:45,924 --> 00:38:48,527 perhaps I would not be alive today. 744 00:38:48,627 --> 00:38:51,229 He was a guardian angel for me. 745 00:38:51,329 --> 00:38:52,664 [knocking] 746 00:39:01,072 --> 00:39:05,511 I am Alexander, American. 747 00:39:05,611 --> 00:39:06,978 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): The guardian angel 748 00:39:07,078 --> 00:39:09,481 took it upon himself to track Sigfried down. 749 00:39:12,451 --> 00:39:13,251 Soup. 750 00:39:17,756 --> 00:39:18,824 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Alexander 751 00:39:18,924 --> 00:39:21,393 took a genuine interest in the Laier family. 752 00:39:21,493 --> 00:39:24,830 And before long, the food shortages were a dim memory. 753 00:39:29,067 --> 00:39:31,102 INTERPRETER (VOICEOVER): He brought us food from the army, 754 00:39:31,202 --> 00:39:32,804 the same food eaten by them. 755 00:39:32,904 --> 00:39:34,406 We also ate. 756 00:39:40,546 --> 00:39:42,548 He used to come by every day, if only 757 00:39:42,648 --> 00:39:45,116 to pick me up and take me to kindergarten, 758 00:39:45,216 --> 00:39:47,486 or to pick me up there later. 759 00:39:47,586 --> 00:39:51,557 Each time, he would bring a little food. 760 00:39:51,657 --> 00:39:52,691 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): The bond 761 00:39:52,791 --> 00:39:55,226 between the German child and the American GI 762 00:39:55,326 --> 00:39:57,996 grew stronger with each passing day. 763 00:39:58,096 --> 00:40:00,832 Alexander would often invite Siegfried to tag along 764 00:40:00,932 --> 00:40:03,068 on routine patrols around town. 765 00:40:03,168 --> 00:40:04,302 You want to drive? 766 00:40:04,402 --> 00:40:05,336 - Want to drive? - Right. 767 00:40:05,437 --> 00:40:06,705 - Right. - Jeep. 768 00:40:06,805 --> 00:40:07,673 Jeep. 769 00:40:07,773 --> 00:40:09,107 OK. 770 00:40:09,207 --> 00:40:10,075 Jeep. 771 00:40:10,175 --> 00:40:11,743 Jeep. 772 00:40:11,843 --> 00:40:13,845 Grab the wheel. 773 00:40:13,945 --> 00:40:14,746 Watch the road. 774 00:40:14,846 --> 00:40:16,948 Watch the road. 775 00:40:17,048 --> 00:40:19,551 INTERPRETER (VOICEOVER): Then I was allowed to drive with him. 776 00:40:19,651 --> 00:40:22,187 That was the most wonderful thing. 777 00:40:22,287 --> 00:40:23,321 Ziggy, you're driving! 778 00:40:28,994 --> 00:40:30,696 INTERPRETER (VOICEOVER): When I was sitting in the car 779 00:40:30,796 --> 00:40:34,466 and the other children saw me, they were, perhaps, 780 00:40:34,566 --> 00:40:37,335 a bit jealous, because I was not allowed to drive, 781 00:40:37,435 --> 00:40:38,570 and they couldn't. 782 00:40:38,670 --> 00:40:41,940 I was fairly proud. 783 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:43,174 I don't know if you can understand 784 00:40:43,274 --> 00:40:48,647 what I'm trying to say to you, but I have to go. 785 00:40:48,747 --> 00:40:49,881 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Inevitably, 786 00:40:49,981 --> 00:40:53,151 the time came to say goodbye. 787 00:40:53,251 --> 00:40:56,421 We may not see each other for a long time, 788 00:40:56,522 --> 00:40:57,322 for a very long time. 789 00:41:00,325 --> 00:41:02,393 INTERPRETER (VOICEOVER): I was sad. 790 00:41:02,494 --> 00:41:04,429 Perhaps I would never see him again. 791 00:41:07,032 --> 00:41:10,068 As I think about it today, I was really sad. 792 00:41:22,614 --> 00:41:24,516 Be a good boy. 793 00:41:34,059 --> 00:41:36,461 Be a good boy, Ziggy! 794 00:41:40,532 --> 00:41:41,700 INTERPRETER (VOICEOVER): I have always 795 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,903 thought about how he helped us, and that I should, 796 00:41:45,003 --> 00:41:46,705 in turn, help other people. 797 00:41:49,675 --> 00:41:51,877 He was not obliged to us in any way. 798 00:41:51,977 --> 00:41:57,115 But he did it as a human being, out of human love. 799 00:42:01,386 --> 00:42:03,088 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): Today, Sigfried has only one 800 00:42:03,188 --> 00:42:06,625 precious memento of Alexander, this photograph 801 00:42:06,725 --> 00:42:09,595 taken in the spring of 1945. 802 00:42:09,695 --> 00:42:13,565 At the time, Alexander was approximately 20 years old. 803 00:42:13,665 --> 00:42:15,200 He would now be around 70. 804 00:42:17,869 --> 00:42:21,506 Sigfried Laier or does not know Alexander's last name. 805 00:42:21,607 --> 00:42:23,875 He does know that Alexander was part of an army unit 806 00:42:23,975 --> 00:42:28,814 that marched into Marlaboch Germany on March 27, 1945. 807 00:42:28,914 --> 00:42:30,315 While there, the soldiers were housed 808 00:42:30,415 --> 00:42:32,884 at the Grunebaum Guesthouse. 809 00:42:32,984 --> 00:42:35,253 [music playing] 810 00:42:40,926 --> 00:42:42,493 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): On a previous broadcast, 811 00:42:42,594 --> 00:42:44,996 we brought you the poignant story of the Krone family 812 00:42:45,096 --> 00:42:47,465 of Illinois. 813 00:42:47,565 --> 00:42:50,669 Just before Christmas in 1948, Hilda Krone 814 00:42:50,769 --> 00:42:54,039 and seven of her children had been evicted from their home. 815 00:42:54,139 --> 00:42:59,110 The only available shelter was the Henry County Jail. 816 00:42:59,210 --> 00:43:00,511 Eventually, the children were all 817 00:43:00,612 --> 00:43:03,048 separated, either put up for adoption 818 00:43:03,148 --> 00:43:06,217 or placed in foster care. 819 00:43:06,317 --> 00:43:09,320 18 years later, two of the children, Marie and Raymond, 820 00:43:09,420 --> 00:43:11,990 managed to find each other. 821 00:43:12,090 --> 00:43:14,993 Together, they set out to track down the rest of the family. 822 00:43:19,164 --> 00:43:21,066 For 18 years, Maria and Raymond 823 00:43:21,166 --> 00:43:25,270 suffered through a series of near misses and false leads. 824 00:43:25,370 --> 00:43:29,474 Finally, in 1993, they did locate one sister, Karen. 825 00:43:29,574 --> 00:43:32,610 Then their story aired on "Unsolved Mysteries." 826 00:43:32,711 --> 00:43:36,715 Incredibly, within a few hours, two more sisters and three 827 00:43:36,815 --> 00:43:37,783 brothers had been found. 828 00:43:41,386 --> 00:43:43,554 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): On July 9th, 1994, 829 00:43:43,655 --> 00:43:45,991 we were at Raymond's house in Houston, Texas 830 00:43:46,091 --> 00:43:48,660 as the Krone family gathered for their first reunion 831 00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:50,929 in more than 45 years. 832 00:43:51,029 --> 00:43:55,333 Marie's dream had finally come true. 833 00:43:55,433 --> 00:43:57,836 I've been looking forward to this for a long time, 834 00:43:57,936 --> 00:44:00,906 because I didn't know if I would ever get to really 835 00:44:01,006 --> 00:44:02,373 meet them in person or not. 836 00:44:07,679 --> 00:44:12,417 I feel that the love is still there. 837 00:44:12,517 --> 00:44:14,152 It never went away. 838 00:44:14,252 --> 00:44:15,286 It's always been there. 839 00:44:15,386 --> 00:44:17,923 And I always wondered about them. 840 00:44:18,023 --> 00:44:20,726 And now, I'll finally get to find out 841 00:44:20,826 --> 00:44:23,361 what has been going on with their life and everything, 842 00:44:23,461 --> 00:44:25,530 and get reacquainted. 843 00:44:29,701 --> 00:44:31,837 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): For the oldest sister, Betty Jane, 844 00:44:31,937 --> 00:44:35,206 the reunion was particularly emotional. 845 00:44:35,306 --> 00:44:37,843 I knew that was Marie right away. 846 00:44:37,943 --> 00:44:41,880 Just by looking at her, I knew that was Marie. 847 00:44:41,980 --> 00:44:43,782 And that's when the first one I embraced. 848 00:44:46,985 --> 00:44:48,820 I was very happy to see them all. 849 00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:50,255 And they all started coming to me. 850 00:44:50,355 --> 00:44:52,423 And I started going to them, hugging them, and everything. 851 00:44:52,523 --> 00:44:54,425 So I was very happy. 852 00:44:54,525 --> 00:44:55,961 I feel so good. 853 00:44:56,061 --> 00:44:58,797 I really do. 854 00:44:58,897 --> 00:45:00,899 ROBERT STACK (VOICEOVER): For Raymond, the end of the search 855 00:45:00,999 --> 00:45:03,134 meant a new beginning. 856 00:45:07,105 --> 00:45:10,408 We got a lot of catching up to do. 857 00:45:10,508 --> 00:45:11,509 Yeah, we do. 858 00:45:11,609 --> 00:45:15,413 I always knew their names and everything. 859 00:45:15,513 --> 00:45:20,318 But I just didn't know how to go about finding them or anything. 860 00:45:20,418 --> 00:45:21,319 We hunted. 861 00:45:21,419 --> 00:45:23,121 And we just got turned down everyplace 862 00:45:23,221 --> 00:45:27,793 we'd turn to try to find them till this come along. 863 00:45:27,893 --> 00:45:28,794 And it worked. 864 00:45:35,666 --> 00:45:38,003 [music playing] 865 00:45:43,474 --> 00:45:45,110 Join me next time. 866 00:45:45,210 --> 00:45:48,313 Perhaps you may be able to help solve a mystery. 867 00:45:48,413 --> 00:45:51,082 [music playing] 67791

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