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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:05,400 This programme contains some strong language 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:07,760 TikTok - over one billion of us use it. 3 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,320 In just a few years, it's changed the world. 4 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:12,520 But is it now changing us? 5 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,880 If I was a copper today, I'd be absolutely furious 6 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:17,160 with TikTok. 7 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,760 TikTok seems to be driving some users into a frenzy. 8 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:22,640 You have blood on your hands! 9 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:24,960 From witch hunts by amateur sleuths... 10 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,480 TikTokers have been playing detective. 11 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,480 It has significantly distracted the investigation. 12 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,000 ..to incidents of copycat violence... 13 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,920 They stole a bus and burned it. 14 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,760 ..these frenzies seem to be fuelled by posting and sharing 15 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:41,000 on the platform. 16 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:42,920 It's like wildfires spreading. 17 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,920 You can put out the main fire, but, like, all of the little fires 18 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,120 are still there and people can see it. 19 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,280 I'm the BBC's disinformation and social media correspondent. 20 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,280 Like so many of us, I'm obsessed with TikTok. 21 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,400 Sometimes I think that maybe the TikTok algorithm knows me 22 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,080 better than I know myself. 23 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,320 And I want to know whether it's really driving antisocial behaviour. 24 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,440 TikTok will send you an encouragement telling you 25 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:08,680 you're a hit, keep going. 26 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,000 TikTok incentivises creators very, very clearly 27 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:14,760 by paying them money. 28 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,800 If so, are the company aware of what's going on? 29 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,280 Or is the machine out of control? 30 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,240 Am I looking at this one? Sorry, I just fucked this up. 31 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,200 It's all right. Take two. 32 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,480 I'm Taylor Cohen. I worked at TikTok in New York 33 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,240 between the years of 2020 and 2022, 34 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,960 as a global creative strategist. 35 00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:45,400 I was a really early adopter of the platform. 36 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,920 I couldn't put it down, for like, days, months, 37 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,960 which turned into years. Started to see more of my friends joining 38 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,640 and just saw it as not going away, 39 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,960 and I just needed to be a part of it. 40 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:02,600 But do you have a blue North Face TikTok hat? 41 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:04,840 Because I do. 42 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,960 TikTok is different than anything that ever came before it. 43 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,040 If I met somebody who didn't understand how the TikTok 44 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:16,120 algorithm worked, I would explain it to them in this way. 45 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:20,520 Do you want to see what you actually are interested in? 46 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:24,080 TikTok is a content graph, meaning that the algorithm 47 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,680 serves you content based on topics you like. 48 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:30,640 So, as an example, if you really like dogs and you start to see 49 00:02:30,640 --> 00:02:33,720 maybe one or two TikToks in your feed of dogs, 50 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,480 but you're always liking that dog post, 51 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,800 you're going to start to see a lot more dog content in your feed. 52 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,840 Now, on Instagram, the biggest difference there is, you know, 53 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,040 that's a social graph, meaning you're only going to see content 54 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,840 based upon other people's influence. 55 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:53,040 So, your other friends liking posts, how many followers the person has, 56 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,520 how much engagement they're getting. 57 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,360 When I think about TikTok, it's allowing anybody 58 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,480 to show up at the top of your feed or in the first couple of like, 59 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:04,240 swipes, whatever it is. 60 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,640 But it's so relevant to you and it's so catered 61 00:03:06,640 --> 00:03:09,880 that you feel like you're actually living in this like, experience, 62 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,200 with other people, where you're like, "Oh, wow, I feel that same way." 63 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,880 And I can't say, like, at least for myself, I've never experienced 64 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,400 that on any other social platform, ever. 65 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:24,040 I'm Jeff Allen. I'm the co-founder and chief research officer 66 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:25,840 at the Integrity Institute. 67 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,720 Videos uploaded to TikTok are public, which means that anyone 68 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:30,560 on Earth can see them. 69 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,480 It's much more about discovery. 70 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,000 It's much more about seeing content that is new and novel. 71 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:40,120 It does mean that the algorithm is much more in control and has much 72 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,840 more influence over what users are seeing. 73 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,640 You don't quite know what you're going to see, when you log into it. 74 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,200 Four students stabbed to death in their off-campus house 75 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,240 while two of their housemates slept. 76 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,720 Those are the bare facts of a crime committed on the 13th of November 77 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,720 in the small college town of Moscow, Idaho. 78 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:06,760 In November 2022, 79 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,040 four students from the University of Idaho were murdered 80 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:12,920 in their bedrooms, while two surviving housemates slept. 81 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,200 Unfounded speculation around who committed the murders 82 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:17,720 gripped TikTok. 83 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:19,800 So, like everybody else on TikTok, 84 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:21,400 I'm obsessed with this. 85 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:23,160 I'd never heard of Moscow, Idaho. 86 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,320 But the murders quickly flooded my feed before being widely 87 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:27,840 covered by the media. 88 00:04:27,840 --> 00:04:29,160 I'm fucking over The TikTok 89 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,080 detectives are all over this fucking app. 90 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,000 Within a few days, I was almost seeing nothing else. 91 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,640 I discovered that TikTok users were uniquely obsessed 92 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:38,040 with the case. 93 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,520 I found videos on TikTok using the Idaho 4 hashtag racked up 94 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,800 two billion views compared to just 80,000 views on YouTube 95 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,760 over the same period. The case seemed to generate more engagement 96 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,560 on TikTok than any of the other social media sites. 97 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,240 So I was doing some digging and I went on Maddie, which is one 98 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,920 of the victims' Instagram, and I saw that she has a boyfriend named Jake. 99 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:03,000 Sleuths trying to solve mysteries online happens all the time. 100 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,160 But what I noticed was how so many people were getting involved 101 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,840 in baseless speculation, who didn't seem to have posted 102 00:05:09,840 --> 00:05:12,960 about true crime before, getting huge numbers of views, 103 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:17,520 sharing theories about a murder that they had limited knowledge of. 104 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,720 What I think happened is that Kaylee had a stalker. 105 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:24,760 The more extreme the views, the more interest 106 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:25,960 they seemed to attract. 107 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,240 This is Kaylee, and this is her ex. And everyone's like, 108 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,440 "Kaylee was the target, Kaylee was the target." 109 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,280 Like many, I found myself watching video after video. 110 00:05:33,280 --> 00:05:35,840 I was hooked by people throwing around accusations 111 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:38,360 about who they believed to be the murder suspect. 112 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,800 I am starting to believe more and more that Jack was involved. 113 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:47,040 Stop thinking that you are on an episode of Law And Order. 114 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,040 These are actual lives. 115 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,040 Some TikTokers, including those who lived in Moscow, Idaho, 116 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,480 started to call out what was happening. 117 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,880 These are real fucking lives that you are discussing 118 00:05:57,880 --> 00:05:59,360 and ruining. 119 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,600 People died. Fucking stop. 120 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,880 One of the main theories involved someone called Jack Showalter. 121 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:06,720 Dubbed "Hoodie Guy" by TikTokers, 122 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,120 he was falsely accused of being involved. 123 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,560 Jack was caught on CCTV by a food truck close to two of the victims, 124 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,600 hours before they were killed. 125 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,880 The most suspect is grey Hoodie Guy from the food truck. 126 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,800 He followed them. This all just ties up. 127 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:23,680 He had it planned out. 128 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,640 TikTokers deciding he was a suspect, dissected his life online. 129 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,920 The big rumour going around is that his parents whisked him 130 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,200 off to South Africa, so they can't get his DNA. 131 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,360 I think that it was premeditated. 132 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:40,400 That's why the main suspect is now in Africa. 133 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,920 We do not believe the following individuals are involved 134 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:48,800 in this crime. A male specifically wearing a white hoodie. 135 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:50,640 It's not Jack Showalter. 136 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,600 It has nothing to do with my family or the Showalters. 137 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:57,240 His sister released a TikTok asking the witch-hunt to stop. 138 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:01,520 There were so many victims that were created 139 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,280 through internet sleuth videos like this. 140 00:07:04,280 --> 00:07:09,080 We have received threats and harassment. 141 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:10,480 Um... 142 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:14,320 ..and...we didn't deserve that. 143 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:16,560 Jack didn't deserve that. 144 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,440 I'm Jasmine, and I worked as a TikTok moderator in 2022. 145 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,560 I think it's fair to say that TikTok has a unique quality 146 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:31,360 to it that makes it especially sticky for people to engage 147 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,720 in trends. Because you feel like everyone else is already doing it, 148 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,200 so what does it matter if I also engage in this trend? 149 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,480 When really, it's kind of feeding the algorithm and it's making 150 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,120 this topic more popular by you posting about it. 151 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,880 You could see it, as a moderator, that people would completely pivot 152 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,680 their content and kind of try to jump on whatever's trendy right now. 153 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,960 So right now, we are driving to Moscow, Idaho. 154 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:57,440 We just flew out from Florida. 155 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,240 While most joined in from their homes, I found one TikToker 156 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,640 called Olivia, who took things a step further. 157 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:04,840 She decided to visit the scene. 158 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,960 This is the home where four students were brutally stabbed to death. 159 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,520 One of her posts even racked up over 20 million views. 160 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,520 A reddish coloured substance, believed to be blood, 161 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,480 can be seen coming from Xana's room. 162 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,560 Many were gripped by her videos. 163 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,080 Others were more critical and asked her to stop. 164 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:23,640 But she kept posting. 165 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,800 It is insanely disrespectful to go ahead and make 166 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,720 a little mock documentary for a 15-second TikTok video 167 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:33,440 of an active crime. 168 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,720 In this leaked screenshot from surveillance footage, it shows 169 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:38,880 the girls speaking with Kaylee's ex. 170 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,840 I wanted to understand what was driving her to speculate 171 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:43,200 about the case. 172 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,760 She agreed to meet me in Florida, where she lives. 173 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,120 There was something about it that really drew me to it, 174 00:08:55,120 --> 00:09:00,240 and I just felt this need to go out there and dig for answers and see 175 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,120 if I can help out in any way. 176 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:07,000 Right here is the home where the four University of Idaho students 177 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:08,520 were murdered. 178 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:13,000 I was at the location for a week, talking to people, to neighbours, 179 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,440 to students, and trying to get a feel for who could 180 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:18,800 have possibly done this. 181 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:22,400 How far is Moscow, Idaho, from here in Florida? 182 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:27,600 Moscow, Idaho is about a six or seven-hour flight, 183 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,080 I think. That is a long way to go? 184 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,720 Yeah, it was very long, but the content that I make 185 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:38,600 where I am actually at the scene of something, does much better 186 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,080 versus if I was just at home sitting somewhere 187 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,600 and talking about a case, because I'm showing them - this is exactly 188 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:48,520 what is happening right now. 189 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,000 What has been the reaction on the ground when you turn up 190 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,960 at different locations to cover these cases? 191 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:58,320 Typically, the reaction is positive, but sometimes that's not 192 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,800 always the case. I think one example of a hostile situation 193 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,200 was the Summer Wells case. 194 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,560 Something bad happened here and her mother won't talk about it. 195 00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:12,040 Five-year-old Summer Wells went missing in June 2021. 196 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:13,480 11 acres of forest. 197 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,200 Her toys are still scattered about in her back yard. 198 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,480 Olivia was one of the people investigating the case on TikTok. 199 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,080 Summer's parents say that she was abducted. 200 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,160 At one point, they said that she just walked out the back door 201 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:29,160 by herself. A neighbour says they heard a loud scream around the time 202 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:30,400 she went missing. 203 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,960 Her parents were not named as suspects, and there was no evidence 204 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,200 at the time to suggest they were involved. 205 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,800 Yet they were pursued by rumours on social media 206 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:39,640 that they were somehow responsible. 207 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,160 Another rumour is that one of Summer's siblings say 208 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:44,760 they saw their father holding Summer's lifeless body, 209 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:46,200 running out of the house. 210 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,440 There's a cemetery across the street from their home. 211 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,520 We spent days searching for Summer, but found nothing. 212 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,360 Olivia was one of a group of TikTokers who turned up 213 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,520 outside the parents' house in Tennessee. 214 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,640 Summer's parents spoke out about the harm the unfounded allegations 215 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:02,560 were causing. 216 00:11:02,560 --> 00:11:05,840 This is the hardest time of me and Candus's life. 217 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,400 You lose your daughter and then you get blamed for it 218 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,760 and then everybody turns on you. 219 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:15,640 Her parents didn't want anyone to really help search 220 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:17,200 for their missing daughter. 221 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,360 You told me you couldn't come to church today. 222 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:25,600 Her parents actually shot a flare gun at my mother 223 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,680 and I and some friends. Was that scary? It was, 224 00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:30,320 it was a bit scary. 225 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,680 But I just kind of get in this zone where I'm like, kind of 226 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:37,000 in my own little world, and I don't even really realise. 227 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,560 Does it ever feel like a movie to you, 228 00:11:39,560 --> 00:11:42,280 almost as a coping mechanism, like, that distance that you put 229 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,840 between yourself and the case? I feel a lot of people 230 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:51,800 will accuse me of, or say that I sensationalise these stories 231 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,440 and that it's bad. But I don't see it like that. 232 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,320 I'm a very empathic person. 233 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:01,440 It's just the way that I edit that people see it as, like, 234 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,400 a Netflix thing, and that's why they say I'm sensationalising things. 235 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,080 Two years later, Summer remains missing. 236 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,480 The police have kept the case open. 237 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,000 OK, here's part six. 238 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:19,960 And we found two men's ankle socks, and this was probably a couple 239 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,120 of feet away from where his remains were found. 240 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,960 I felt it was almost like Olivia didn't realise the harm this kind 241 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,800 of behaviour could cause the people living through tragedies. 242 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,520 For people who don't watch this kind of content, they could find it 243 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,640 quite unusual, quite unusual that someone would go to the place 244 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,120 where a disappearance has happened, or murders have happened, 245 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,640 and record it and look for information. 246 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,440 Do you think it's unusual? 247 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:50,160 I do see how that could be unusual for people that aren't on TikTok, 248 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,400 but I think it's a new thing that is happening 249 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,280 and it will become more normal. It's the beginning. 250 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,800 It's kind of like the Wild West out here. 251 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:03,040 I do worry that I could accidentally give out wrong information. 252 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,400 I won't go out of my way to talk about someone, 253 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,200 unless I really believe that they're really involved. 254 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,400 It's a new type of journalism. 255 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:13,440 Journalism has changed. 256 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,200 It's not like how it was before. 257 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:16,760 Now, you don't need a diploma. 258 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:18,720 You don't need a degree to really do it. 259 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:20,760 You just need your phone, that's all you need. 260 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,680 And sometimes I can even post controversial things. 261 00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:28,600 I can post about information that some news companies would need 262 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:33,760 confirmation about before posting, but I have just me, 263 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,120 so I could just post it. I can do that. 264 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,920 I have the power to do that. 265 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:43,520 So, we finished searching, um, in the northern part of... 266 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,480 Olivia says she's a journalist, but what she's doing is not subject 267 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,680 to the codes of practice that govern traditional media. 268 00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:53,800 I'm obliged not to promote false or unfounded theories. 269 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,760 We're about half a mile out here, 270 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:58,080 Over. 271 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,760 At the moment, TikTok regulates itself and says it removes content 272 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,560 that breaches its community guidelines, including 273 00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:09,280 misinformation and hate. 274 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:13,240 The Online Safety Bill is expected to become law in the UK at the end 275 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:18,000 of 2023, and says it will force social media sites to uphold 276 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,120 their commitments to protect users. 277 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:24,000 If they don't, they could face hefty fines. 278 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:29,840 But speculation about the Idaho murders felt like a free-for-all. 279 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:34,840 I think that TikTok does encourage people to participate 280 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,000 more than other apps, 281 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,200 because you can just be sitting on your couch 282 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,840 and make a video, and then reach tonnes of people. 283 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:48,640 One video on TikTok could get millions of plays, 284 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,280 versus if I post the same video on Instagram, 285 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,480 it'll get, like, 200 views. 286 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,080 It's much easier to go viral on TikTok. 287 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:02,080 And there isn't this barrier of developing a huge following. 288 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,000 You know, maybe the second video that you upload, TikTok decides 289 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,240 is a great video to show everyone, and boom, 290 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:08,920 you're off to 20 million views. 291 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,720 As something gets more harmful, things tend to get more engagement. 292 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,840 These algorithmically ranked systems are all floating bad content 293 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,680 to the top. If you see - oh, this video, someone's doing something 294 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,280 very dangerous in it and they're getting a lot of views, cool, 295 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:23,280 maybe I'll do something dangerous. You know, someone's doing something 296 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,240 that's very disruptive and damaging, you know, to their community. 297 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,960 You're like, OK, well, maybe I will disrupt my community too, 298 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,640 and maybe I will get a lot of views if I do that. 299 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,160 So how does TikTok deal with this? 300 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,360 Does it actually incentivise users to take part, 301 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:38,920 even if it causes harm? 302 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:40,200 My name is Lara. 303 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,840 I was a content moderator at TikTok in the Australian market 304 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,280 from 2020 to 2022. 305 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:51,160 I saw a lot of trends that were either super dangerous, but people 306 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,720 got the thrill out of being involved in something. 307 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,880 TikTok has definitely impacted how people act, how people behave, 308 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,080 how people treat others. 309 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,080 TikTok gives you that opportunity to see something that's happening 310 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,920 and then suddenly feel like, Oh, I need to go there. 311 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,800 It's an hour away, I can film myself doing that, I can be relevant. 312 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,960 I think that's when people forget that fine line of what is socially 313 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,440 acceptable and what's not, but also what's legal and what's not. 314 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,840 And then other people are watching and think that that person is right. 315 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:23,360 They follow, they copy. 316 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,320 If you were face-to-face with that person, 317 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,000 you wouldn't be commenting the things that you are commenting. 318 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,440 But because it feels like you're just talking to friends, 319 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,360 and you see hundreds of other people who have also done the same thing, 320 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,000 it becomes much more socially acceptable. 321 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,080 If you see someone attacking a person, you clearly know 322 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,240 that's wrong, but that's always going to be taken off TikTok. 323 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:46,320 But if you see someone invading their privacy or bullying them, 324 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,880 that's a bit more grey in terms of how people 325 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,360 take it in and accept. 326 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:56,680 In December 2022, a man was arrested and charged with the murders 327 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,480 of the four Idaho students. He's awaiting trial. 328 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,480 It seems to me that Olivia and other TikTokers found themselves 329 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,360 caught up in a sort of frenzy. 330 00:17:05,360 --> 00:17:07,880 As more extreme allegations were made about the case, 331 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,440 they were encouraged to get involved, forgetting about 332 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,080 the consequences and the real people targeted. 333 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:16,160 So why do these frenzies happen on TikTok? 334 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,000 When you post a video on TikTok, rather than just being promoted 335 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,480 to your friends and followers, it will appear on the feeds 336 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,160 of other users who TikTok thinks could be interested in it. 337 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,840 Depending on how they engage with that video, the algorithm 338 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,840 might decide this is something people like and push it to millions 339 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,200 more at a speed and scale that doesn't seem possible on other 340 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,040 social media platforms. 341 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,960 After seeing the original video's success, other users 342 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,600 might then decide to create their own versions, which in turn 343 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:47,160 will be sent out to more people. And the cycle starts again. 344 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:51,600 And so you have a TikTok frenzy, often with users pushing it 345 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,800 to new extremes to get noticed, because the likes and views 346 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,000 make them think that it's OK. 347 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:03,840 These frenzies are different on TikTok 348 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,320 because of its emphasis on participation. 349 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,360 From the outset, when people came to it as a dance app, 350 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:12,360 getting involved has been a key part of its DNA. 351 00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:17,360 TikTok inspires participation more than any other platform. 352 00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:21,680 I truly believe it is THE participatory platform. 353 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,360 SCREAM 354 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,360 Oh, yeah! 355 00:18:24,360 --> 00:18:28,360 But the really cool thing about TikTok and TikTok frenzies, 356 00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:30,120 is that people try... 357 00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:33,280 They don't just recreate it. They put their own spin on it. 358 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:37,400 And so you start to see what the original piece of content was 359 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,360 that went viral and led to this TikTok frenzy, 360 00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:43,640 and then you'll see, like, the last video that kind of like blew up 361 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:45,760 and it's nowhere near the first one. 362 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,360 And it's so cool to see, like, the creativity 363 00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:52,040 that the community brings to those TikTok frenzies. 364 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:53,680 My name is Chris Stokel-Walker. 365 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,040 I'm a journalist and the author of TikTok Boom. 366 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,720 Traditionally, in social media, you have been passive consumers - 367 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:04,960 you've watched videos wash over you through the app's delivery of them. 368 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:09,160 But with TikTok, you are actively encouraged to participate, 369 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:14,440 and it's because that allows them to essentially ensure 370 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:18,040 that you go from being someone who can dip in and out, 371 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,960 to being someone who is actively invested in this. 372 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,320 What unfolded on TikTok around this police investigation 373 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:27,960 felt different to me. 374 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,520 I wondered whether this was just a US phenomenon. 375 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,720 But then it happened again. 376 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,960 REPORTER: Just what has happened to Nikki Bulley? 377 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,920 She vanished from this Lancashire river bank last Friday morning, 378 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,400 a mum of two young girls who'd just dropped off at school, 379 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,280 and was taking her dog for its regular walk. 380 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,240 Nikki's mobile phone was found on this bench. 381 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,680 It was still connected to a work conference call. 382 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:01,040 Her spaniel, a short while later, was found wandering nearby. 383 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,280 Local people who saw it, say it was dry 384 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,240 and hadn't been in the river. 385 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,800 That leash was meant to be there and so was that phone. 386 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:10,160 It was a set-up. 387 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,880 Similar to Idaho, a frenzy began around her disappearance. 388 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:18,000 I spotted it on my TikTok feed before it totally flooded the news. 389 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,040 According to TikTok, it deploys additional resources 390 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,280 to reduce the potential spread of conspiratorial content 391 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,200 about unfolding events. 392 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,040 But as the days went on, the witch-hunts began, 393 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,720 accusing friends and family of Nicola of being involved. 394 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:35,000 FEMALE VOICE: He just gives me bad vibes. What do you think? 395 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,080 One TikTok account was racking up millions of views, 396 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,720 posting speculation about Nicola's friend Emma and her partner Paul. 397 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:43,840 MALE VOICE: I believe Emma posed as Nicola 398 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,160 the morning she was reported missing. 399 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:47,920 Does this support my theory? 400 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,400 Same socks or same person? 401 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,000 FEMALE VOICE: You can clearly see Paul's reflection right here 402 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,320 and also note how he is in darkness, 403 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,400 while the girls and Nikki are photographed with flash. 404 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,640 MALE VOICE: Who are these people and why were they allowed to be present? 405 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:03,040 Why are you hiding? 406 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,920 Do they know something we don't? 407 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,880 The person behind this TikTok account has agreed to meet me. 408 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,960 Hello. Hi! Lovely to meet you. You too. 409 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,320 Heather had never really used TikTok before, 410 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,840 but this case caught her attention on the app. 411 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,760 And she says TikTok inspired her to get involved. 412 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,880 So I went on TikTok to look at the real person's perspective 413 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,440 on the Nicola Bulley case. I think the initial posts 414 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,360 were all just pleas, trying to find her, 415 00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:33,320 little descriptions of what she was wearing, 416 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,200 retracing her footsteps from the day. 417 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,600 But there's the dark side, where the conspiracists 418 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,640 were unpicking her life, scrutinising the people involved 419 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:45,040 in her life, and I think that's then what engages natural curiosity. 420 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,520 When you're being constantly surrounded by those kinds of videos, 421 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,760 can it become quite difficult to say, 422 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,720 "Oh, hold up a second - is that true, is that false?" 423 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:58,240 I think it's very easy to fall down, like, a conspiracy hole. 424 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,320 Any little thing can become suspicious 425 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,080 when you're looking at it over and over and almost wanting 426 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,840 to find discrepancies in people's stories. 427 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,200 MALE VOICE: This is so obvious to me. 428 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,120 Emma posed as Nicola. 429 00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:13,360 This is meant to be doorbell footage of Nicola. 430 00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:16,120 Heather posted a video scrutinising doorbell footage 431 00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:19,400 of Nicola leaving the house on the morning of her disappearance. 432 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,880 She falsely implied the footage actually showed 433 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,920 Nicola's best friend Emma pretending to be Nicola. 434 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,760 I can't be the only one seeing this. 435 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,520 Do they share jewellery? 436 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,600 How viral did it go? 437 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,440 So, it got to 3.6 million within 72 hours. 438 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,760 That level of explosion was just completely unexpected. 439 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,360 Whenever you post something and it gains traction, 440 00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:46,160 TikTok will send you little emails of encouragement, 441 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,680 telling you that, you've received this many views, 442 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,440 "You're a hit. Keep going." 443 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,520 And, you know, it's there to encourage you to keep posting. 444 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:58,360 If you post something and you receive a lot of positivity from it, 445 00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:00,840 I think that can definitely change your behaviour, 446 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,560 whereas, before, you might not have had that level of empowerment 447 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,200 or entitlement, and now all of a sudden, you feel that 448 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,200 you've got this authority to keep posting whatever you've done before. 449 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,840 And I think it does... Definitely has the power to alter people's 450 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,120 perspective on reality. 451 00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:19,840 There was, I think, around 10,000 comments 452 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:21,520 just on that one video alone. 453 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,760 There are obviously, dotted in there, quite abusive ones - 454 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,640 you know, "You're immoral," 455 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,000 "you're making money off the misery of people," 456 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,040 and that's just not true. 457 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,560 We've got two beautiful little girls that need their mummy home, 458 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,240 and that's what's keeping us going. 459 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,120 But, again, the community is united... 460 00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:38,640 As interest in the case grew, 461 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,320 Emma spoke to the media about the disappearance. 462 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,120 This led to TikTokers analysing her behaviour 463 00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:46,120 and claiming she was involved. 464 00:23:46,120 --> 00:23:49,760 Emma White is really beginning to grind on me for a number of reasons. 465 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,520 What's the need for all the make-up? 466 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,760 MALE VOICE: Her make-up is always done well. 467 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,440 The negative that sticks in my mind is Emma White, 468 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:57,680 who I don't trust. 469 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,600 MALE VOICE: I believe the CCTV footage to be that of Emma. 470 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,160 And it wasn't just Emma. 471 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,040 Nicola's partner Paul also became a particular target 472 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,320 of false claims on TikTok. 473 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,360 Can you not see through him? 474 00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:11,360 He's lying through his teeth. 475 00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:14,080 What doesn't sit right with me with this gentleman 476 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:15,760 is his body language. 477 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,680 Very relaxed, no emotion. 478 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,560 His face... There's some confusion, as the sides of his mouth go up 479 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:22,920 and his brow goes down. 480 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,560 It's all so ridiculous, his head and his scarf. 481 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,560 England is not particularly cold, 482 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,960 so it makes you wonder what he's trying to hide. 483 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:33,760 These theories were wrong. 484 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,280 Emma and Paul were innocent. 485 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,640 Lancashire Police said that they are continuing to see a huge amount 486 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,040 of commentary from so-called experts, ill-informed speculation, 487 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,840 and conspiracy theories, which they said was damaging 488 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,720 to the investigation, the community here in St Michael's 489 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,200 and, most importantly, to Nicola's family. 490 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,160 They said it must stop. 491 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,920 "Our girls will get the support they need 492 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,480 "from the people who love them the most. 493 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,000 "And it saddens us to think that one day, 494 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:09,520 "we will have to explain to them that the press and members of the 495 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,000 "public accused their dad of wrongdoing... 496 00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:18,800 "..misquoted and vilified friends and family. 497 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,320 "This is absolutely appalling. 498 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,280 "They have to be held accountable. 499 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,600 "This cannot happen to another family." 500 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,640 The police announcements didn't stop some users from posting about 501 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,520 the case, even though the speculation was causing 502 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,800 serious harm to a family already living through the worst. 503 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,600 Do you think that when lots and lots of other people 504 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,480 are posting about something, sharing their views about it, 505 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,680 and millions of people are watching it, 506 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,480 do you think it can make us a bit desensitised? 507 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,840 When you're seeing video after video after video of the same content, 508 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,520 on the same topic, it's very easy to just think, 509 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,480 "Well, I can join in on that. And I'm just another person." 510 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,720 I've had to remind myself, "These are other people's lives. 511 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,960 "And it's not just a video that's going to go nowhere - 512 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,680 "it's potentially going to blow up in your face, 513 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,400 "and then you are accountable." 514 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,800 I think that's the danger of TikTok, is that if somebody posts something 515 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,120 that isn't factual, then it gets a lot of views 516 00:26:16,120 --> 00:26:18,800 and then it sort of becomes a conspiracy. 517 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,480 Since speaking to me, Heather deleted her posts 518 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,720 about Nicola Bulley. 519 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,040 Heather seemed to really regret becoming caught up in this frenzy, 520 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,440 and she told me that without TikTok, she just doesn't think 521 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,680 she would have participated in this way. 522 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,960 The press was also to blame for what unfolded around this case, 523 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,560 but it was on TikTok where some of the misinformation 524 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,720 that couldn't be aired by the traditional media 525 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:46,000 spread like wildfire. It all became really out of control. 526 00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:50,360 A study by the Integrity Institute measured how much engagement 527 00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:53,120 certain creators received on inaccurate posts 528 00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:55,320 compared to their other posts. 529 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,320 They found that misinformation was amplified 25 times on TikTok, 530 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,840 compared to 2.4 times on Instagram 531 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,520 and 3.8 times on Facebook. 532 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,440 The platform that did the least worst is Instagram, 533 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,400 and that is actually a design... 534 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,080 ..an implication of how Instagram is designed. 535 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,280 It's very much dependent upon who you follow, 536 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,000 there's no reshare or retweet button, 537 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,160 and most of the views are not coming from algorithmic recommendations. 538 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,880 Like the other social media sites, TikTok do have 539 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,600 specialised misinformation moderators, equipped with tools 540 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,400 to help keep misinformation off the platform. 541 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,360 The fact-checking tool is something they brought in, 542 00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:37,240 and it felt very much as a response to the criticism 543 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:38,960 TikTok was getting in the media. 544 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,760 So, they wanted something for moderators, 545 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,800 so they could look up in real time what was happening. 546 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:49,240 Actually using the fact-checking tool was quite complicated. 547 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,880 Sometimes the fact-checkers weren't really, like, clear 548 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,280 on what they have to fact-check. 549 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:58,200 So, for normal users who don't have this privilege of a fact-check tool, 550 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,000 yeah, it's having a really real effect. 551 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,760 And it is changing people's minds about things. 552 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,960 It is quite steep down here. 553 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,000 Similar to Idaho, the frenzy on TikTok around the Nicola Bulley case 554 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:19,960 grew exponentially. 555 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,280 Within the first three weeks of her disappearance, 556 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,720 I found videos using the hashtag of her name had 270 million views 557 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:31,440 on TikTok, compared to just 3.3 million on YouTube. 558 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,640 Yet what was different was the number of TikTokers 559 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,800 turning up at the scene. 560 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,160 This caused the police to take the unprecedented move 561 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,400 of calling out the interference by TikTokers 562 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,320 and issuing a dispersal order around the area. 563 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,280 TikTokers have been playing their own private detectives. 564 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,880 In 29 years' police service, I've never seen anything like it. 565 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,680 It has significantly distracted the investigation. 566 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,640 Hi, guys. My name is Spencer Sutcliffe 567 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,840 from Spencer Sutcliffe Security and Training Ltd... 568 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,440 Locals even employed a private security firm 569 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:02,960 to keep TikTokers away. 570 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,320 ..all these conspiracy theories that are going on 571 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,040 and people taking it as fact. 572 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,120 So, if you don't need to come to the village, guys, 573 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:10,320 please just stay away. 574 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,840 The caravan site close to the bench where Nicola went missing 575 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,440 soon became a central focal point for the TikTok sleuths. 576 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,400 There is a caravan site with a CCTV blind spot 577 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,840 that the police haven't bothered to look into. 578 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,680 That's a map of the caravan park, and as you can see, 579 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,360 it backs onto the river where Nicola was last seen. 580 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:34,440 There has been some mention of CCTV, specifically at the caravan site, 581 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,520 that hasn't been working, and that that's suspicious itself. 582 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,080 That is not the case. 583 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,800 We have been helped and assisted beyond all belief 584 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,400 by the caravan owners. 585 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,440 Hello! Hello. Nice to see you. How are you doing? 586 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,480 Not bad, thank you. Thanks for having me. You're welcome! 587 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,800 I've come to meet Oliver, whose family own the caravan site. 588 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,800 So, tell me a bit about this caravan park. 589 00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,320 When did your family come here? 590 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,840 My grandparents bought this place in the late '90s. 591 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,960 All these fields here where the campers stay 592 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,720 and the house is owned by my granny. 593 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,360 And she sort of runs the business and she lives there as well. 594 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,120 Yeah... 595 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,120 THEY LAUGH 596 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,680 I'd spotted how Oliver's 78-year-old grandmother Penny 597 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,480 found herself at the centre of some TikTok conspiracy theories. 598 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,840 My grandmother was the one who found poor Nicola's dog 599 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,720 at the bench by the river. 600 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,440 Things sort of snowballed from there, 601 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,040 as national papers started to pick up the story, 602 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,720 and then others unfortunately started to come up 603 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,600 with their own sort of theories as to what happened. 604 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,640 People talking about this tragic case online 605 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,400 found out that my grandmother lives just mere yards 606 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,960 from where Nicola was last seen. 607 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,760 The theories started, and the TikTok videos, of course, 608 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,680 began to be produced. 609 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,400 And, of course, the theories just got wilder and wilder. 610 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,120 Within days, if not hours, that quickly escalated 611 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,760 to people finding out what my grandmother's name is, 612 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,880 the address being posted online. 613 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,040 People started to physically turn up in the village 614 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,640 and to start to take photos of the house. 615 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,320 And one particular TikToker came onto the property 616 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,760 and started to speak to some of our customers at our business. 617 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,640 And then the same TikToker then approached my grandmother. 618 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,120 MAN: We actually came on just to look around how big it is. 619 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:28,440 That's all it was. 620 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,120 What do you think you're doing? 621 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,360 Cos it was open, we walked in. It's not open. Off you go! 622 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:34,800 Go on, both of you! 623 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,200 So you got...no words to say, no? 624 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,480 No, nothing to say... No, no. 625 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,440 Do you have anything to say about Nicola Bulley? 626 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,520 Nothing at all! Nothing? Go on. Nothing at all. 627 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,520 Off you go. OK. 628 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,280 He stood in front of her, asking her questions, 629 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,720 trying to provoke her, antagonise her into a reaction. 630 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:56,920 To have... You know, my grandmother's a 78-year-old woman 631 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:58,360 who lives on her own. 632 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:03,640 To have people effectively come to her door, filming her, was... 633 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,960 It was frightening for all of us, as a family. 634 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:12,640 And she said that she feels like someone may come and attack her 635 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,000 and to try and kill her. 636 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,200 They've been intrusive, intimidating, antagonistic - 637 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,920 and all for getting clicks and likes and to earn money online. 638 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,360 This same TikToker, Curtis Arnold, achieved notoriety 639 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,520 for his invasive videos around the case. 640 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,400 A man has been arrested over footage shot from inside a police cordon 641 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,560 on the day the body of Nicola Bulley was found 642 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,640 in a river in Lancashire last month. 643 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:43,720 To try and catch them recovering a deceased body from the water 644 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,760 is absolutely disgusting. 645 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,000 But even the TikTok community thought he'd taken it too far 646 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,680 when he shared a video of himself getting past the cordon 647 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,640 to film the removal of Nicola's body. 648 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,160 Police say the 34-year-old man from Kidderminster was detained 649 00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,880 on suspicion of malicious communication offences 650 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:03,040 and perverting the course of justice. 651 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:08,120 TikTok incentivises creators very, very clearly by paying them money. 652 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,680 If you have a large following on TikTok and your videos 653 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,400 are getting typically high view rates, TikTok will pay you, 654 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,200 so there's very, very clear incentive 655 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,560 to get as many views as possible. 656 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,960 TikTok pays creators with over 10,000 followers between $20 and $40 657 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:28,560 per million views. 658 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,400 It's unclear how much Curtis Arnold made from his social media posts. 659 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,680 If you can make this your living, 660 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,480 or if you can build up an audience and a little bit of credibility 661 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,000 and maybe even some fame through this, 662 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,720 you're much more likely to log on every day. 663 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:49,160 So there's this kind of vicious circle that you go in, 664 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,840 where you kind of are shown content, you're encouraged to make content, 665 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:58,000 you're given the first taste of fame from that content and, therefore, 666 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,000 you create more and more and constantly feed that algorithm 667 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:02,080 for TikTok. 668 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,360 It's almost natural to become a reverse engineer 669 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,560 of the TikTok algorithm, to do what the algorithm wants you to do, 670 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,360 do the kind of stuff that gets you lots of views and impressions. 671 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,720 This will very naturally sort of influence people's behaviour 672 00:34:15,720 --> 00:34:19,120 and, you know, the videos that they actually do create. 673 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,600 Do you think that it's changed how people behave 674 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,000 and how people think it's acceptable to behave, 675 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,800 these kinds of TikTok videos and posts online? 676 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,040 I think 20 years ago, this simply wouldn't have happened. 677 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,640 The village has been turned into a tourist attraction - 678 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:38,400 a fairground, almost - where people think that they can come here 679 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:45,120 and film our family home as if it's some sort of macabre exhibit. 680 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,600 TikTok have a responsibility. 681 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,520 And I'd like to ask, "Do they think they are 682 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,240 "taking that responsibility seriously enough?" 683 00:34:53,240 --> 00:34:56,480 Cos I certainly don't think they are. 684 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,920 An inquest has determined that Nicola's death 685 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,000 was due to accidental drowning. 686 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,520 From investigating these cases, 687 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,320 it seems to me that something new is happening on TikTok. 688 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,360 The social media site appears to be recommending this kind of content 689 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,040 to users who just wouldn't have come across it before, 690 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,120 and then they decide to participate in a way that they just wouldn't 691 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,320 have done previously. It's almost like a murder mystery game, 692 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,400 and it gets really out of control. 693 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,200 There are misleading and false claims targeting innocent people, 694 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,560 and they seem to be enjoyed by millions. 695 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,640 So, are TikTok aware of what's going on? 696 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:52,600 And what are they doing about it? 697 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,600 I've tracked down someone who used to be on the inside 698 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:56,840 for some answers. 699 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:01,040 We've revoiced him and are calling him Lucas to protect his identity. 700 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,120 I worked in a role in data strategy and analysis, 701 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:05,760 particularly focused on revenue 702 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,000 and the profit-driving side of the business. 703 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,600 Do you think when you were there that they were equipped 704 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:12,760 to become more than just a dancing app, 705 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,440 that they were equipped to deal with videos about 706 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,880 stuff happening in the news about a whole range of different issues? 707 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,400 No, because it grew so fast that they couldn't possibly keep up with 708 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,280 or predicted every single way the app was going to go. 709 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,320 But in terms of dangerous content, at least, I haven't ever heard 710 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,640 of them trying to proactively prevent them from getting big. 711 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,360 And in general, they don't want to. 712 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,400 They don't want to stand in the way of entertainment growing quickly 713 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,360 on their platform. They don't want to be content moderators 714 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,880 because then they are responsible for the content. 715 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,200 You said that phrase - "They don't want to get in the way 716 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,920 "of entertainment and of growth." 717 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,560 Why is that? Money? 718 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:50,240 Yeah, it's about money. 719 00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:52,720 The more users they have on the platform, 720 00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:54,680 spending more time watching videos, 721 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,200 they can sell more ads, sell them for a higher price. 722 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,000 It feels like an engine to make revenue off people's time 723 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:02,840 in unproductive ways. 724 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:04,480 It feels potentially dangerous, 725 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,760 and it's hard to get excited about working towards that goal. 726 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,280 It's probably the most addictive platform that we've encountered yet, 727 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,720 and I think that's a real danger, especially because of how young 728 00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:18,520 the audience is and how impressionable they are. 729 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,880 There was evidence that Tiktok's algorithm was in some way driving 730 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:26,640 the frenzy of strange behaviour in both the Bulley and Idaho cases. 731 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,000 But how widespread was the problem? 732 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,360 Was there evidence that TikTok was connected to other outbreaks 733 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,440 of unusual behaviour? 734 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,480 SHOUTING 735 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:40,440 Oh, my God! 736 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,840 The so-called "TikTok protests" have continued to take place 737 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,560 in Britain's schools, as hundreds of pupils rebelled against teachers 738 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:52,360 over new rules, with some clips attracting millions of views. 739 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,840 In February 2023, another frenzy took hold, 740 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,040 this time in Britain's schools. 741 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,080 A protest at Rainford High about school uniform checks 742 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:03,960 was posted on TikTok, 743 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:08,320 and within three days, students at over 60 schools filmed protests. 744 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:12,320 Within a week, there were over 100 schools involved. 745 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,360 Windows were smashed, trees were set on fire 746 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,720 and teachers were pushed over. 747 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:20,760 School protests aren't new, 748 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,440 but I noticed that a significant number of students 749 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,680 seemed to be behaving in an unusually extreme way. 750 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,200 Some schools were forced to get police involved. 751 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,560 According to TikTok, most of the videos showed pupils engaging 752 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:40,040 in peaceful demonstrations, but it all felt quite familiar to me - 753 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,960 the sheer speed at which the posts spread on TikTok 754 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,200 and the way the users felt emboldened to participate. 755 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,720 Most of the worrying videos we would see 756 00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:52,680 were by really young users. 757 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,200 These kind of, like, frenzies of, like, what is currently cool to do 758 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,120 in a school has always been the case, 759 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,240 but I feel like what TikTok is enabling people to do now 760 00:39:01,240 --> 00:39:03,920 is to take one thing that's viral in one school 761 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,680 and transporting it to, like, the whole region 762 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:08,840 and making it a competition 763 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,480 in who can up the other schools and make it more extreme? 764 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,800 TikTok itself will not solve these problems 765 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:20,040 because these frenzies, it is good for the business. 766 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:23,040 During the school protests, 767 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,320 I decided to see what type of content the algorithm might offer 768 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,880 a 15-year-old boy's For You feed, 769 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,640 so I set up an undercover account. 770 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,800 Right, so these are all videos about football 771 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,400 because we've shown an interest in football. 772 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,720 School uniforms - what is it? 773 00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:41,720 It's a lovely thing provided by the school... 774 00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:43,760 It's not even provided by the schools, by the way. 775 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,440 It looks shit, it feels shit and it costs way too much for what it is. 776 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,440 The fourth post that came up was an influencer called Adrian, 777 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,600 who posts self-improvement videos, and seemed to be encouraging 778 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:53,840 anti-school behaviour. 779 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,320 You know school is pointless and you know it's not helping you 780 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,400 prepare for your future one little bit. 781 00:39:58,400 --> 00:39:59,560 What are we doing here?! 782 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,280 I'll tell you what - being slaves to the government, making sure 783 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:06,360 the institution that is a worker and slave development plan 784 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,200 continues to function... 785 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,440 Over the next few days, the algorithm drove 786 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,640 more and more of his content to my feed. 787 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:16,680 Some bitch told me I need to sit here in this shitty plastic chair. 788 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,480 They have the audacity to tell the youth 789 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,200 what to do with their future! 790 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,680 I teach not to be reliant on higher-ups and teachers. I teach... 791 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,000 Attached to Adrian's account is a link to his business. 792 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,720 Thousands of teachers across the UK are worried about me. 793 00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:32,200 They literally did me a favour. 794 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,080 They gave me free exposure. 795 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,520 Thank you to those of you who continue to stand up for me 796 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,960 against schools, against teachers, against the boards. 797 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,000 I started to look at some of the comments under his videos. 798 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,120 Many seemed to be from teenage boys in the UK. 799 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,240 They suggested that some of them were changing their behaviour 800 00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:50,880 after watching Adrian's videos. 801 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:55,120 Others pushed back after noticing the behaviour of their friends. 802 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,240 Adrian's agreed to have a conversation with me. 803 00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:13,160 I want to ask him about his content and the impact it could be having. 804 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,680 ..every single day without realising... 805 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,160 Not one single piece of content, not one video that I've put out 806 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:23,920 is in any way with misinformation or with hate speech or anything, 807 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,600 any kind of negative impact towards my audience. 808 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:31,560 I encourage them to rebel against ridiculous rules in schools, 809 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,840 where you're discouraged from simple communication. 810 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:35,680 I mean, you know, it's crazy. 811 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,120 What do you think about those kinds of protests? 812 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:39,760 Do you think they've gone too far? 813 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,720 Do you think that they still are within the means of legitimate, 814 00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:45,360 I don't know, opposition to school rules? 815 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:46,600 I think these things are very rare 816 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,440 and they're definitely extreme, to say the least, 817 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,240 cos if you look at my following. Let's say... 818 00:41:50,240 --> 00:41:52,160 I've got 1.2 million followers on my account, 819 00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:57,120 let's say, of which...let's chop it down to 800K are schoolchildren. 820 00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,320 How many of those children, realistically, were involved 821 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,040 in those acts? I mean, a tiny, tiny percentage. 822 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:04,320 I can't control that. 823 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,640 How do you balance making sure that you are encouraging people 824 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,360 to express what they think, but not to take it too far 825 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,720 and actually to, you know, harass teachers or call them horrible names 826 00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:15,760 or make sure that they're not behaving in, like, 827 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:17,640 a violent way towards other people at school? 828 00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:19,160 I mean, how do you tread that line? 829 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,720 Or is it not possible to, with your content? 830 00:42:21,720 --> 00:42:24,120 Ultimately, if I'm putting out a video 831 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,360 to 1.5 million people, I'm not... 832 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:28,880 I absolutely cannot cover 833 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,480 for the 200 out of those 1.5 million people 834 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,000 who decide to do something absolutely ridiculous. 835 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,720 I mean, in none of my videos will you ever see me condone 836 00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:39,280 anything like the things that you've listed up. 837 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,040 I think to say that social media and TikTok in particular 838 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,360 or my content is to blame for these things, it's completely false. 839 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,360 What was interesting about the school frenzy 840 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,600 was that it was real world from the off. 841 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:17,880 Users could participate immediately. 842 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,720 That was maybe one reason why it spiked so quickly 843 00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:22,360 and with such intensity. 844 00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,040 A few months later, in June, I spotted some more protests 845 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,760 involving young people unfolding in France. 846 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,880 Protests and unrest erupted in the region around Paris overnight 847 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:38,320 after police shot dead a 17-year-old who failed to stop when ordered to. 848 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,160 The statement from the police saying the police officers 849 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,400 were feeling threatened and had to shoot, 850 00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:45,720 but this video posted on social media 851 00:43:45,720 --> 00:43:48,400 had a completely different tell of the story. 852 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,520 This is what created a lot of anger. 853 00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:53,520 The French President Emmanuel Macron 854 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,480 is holding a crisis meeting right now. 855 00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:58,200 He has called for calm. 856 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,600 They stole a bus and burned it. 857 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:06,600 The French President levelled the blame at TikTok and Snapchat. 858 00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,040 TRANSLATION: 859 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,200 Was there another TikTok frenzy at play? 860 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,160 Or was the French President just deflecting responsibility 861 00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,320 from a shocking incident that provoked mass unrest? 862 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,120 I looked through the content spreading on social media 863 00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:45,920 using Nahel's name. 864 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:50,960 On Snapchat, I found public videos racking up over 167,000 views. 865 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,520 That doesn't include private chats that I can't access. 866 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,080 Even then, on TikTok, videos using this hashtag 867 00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,240 racked up over 853 million views. 868 00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:03,360 Quite a few of the TikToks were Snapchat videos reshared 869 00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:07,080 with a much higher reach than just friends or those who live locally. 870 00:45:09,240 --> 00:45:11,440 The kind of problem that we're seeing now is 871 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,720 bad behaviour in one part of the world 872 00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:17,600 can very quickly spread to other parts of the world. 873 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,520 And so, you know, when you log on to TikTok, in some respects, 874 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:23,720 you're looking at all of the bad behaviour 875 00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:27,040 from all of the different locations in the country, all at once, 876 00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,200 and so, you know, it's only natural to imagine 877 00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,560 that's going to inspire some copycatting. 878 00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,640 The French protests don't surprise me. 879 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,160 TikTok can definitely drive more eyeballs in a way 880 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,120 that escalates situations. 881 00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,560 I don't think it can validate behaviour. 882 00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:44,440 Groupthink is very real, especially in places like TikTok. 883 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,160 I do think TikTok wants to de-amplify content 884 00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:49,080 that's explicitly dangerous, 885 00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:52,200 but it doesn't want to overly censor or slow things down 886 00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:53,880 which are developing as viral. 887 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,160 And that can be a tricky line to walk. 888 00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,280 But on the other hand, TikTok can make people aware of protests 889 00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:01,600 in a positive way too. 890 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,520 I spotted several videos showing violence and devastation 891 00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,000 in a town called Viry-Chatillon. 892 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,280 Protests seem to have spread at an unusually fast rate 893 00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,640 and with an unusual intensity. 894 00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:17,360 Bonjour! Bonjour, Marianna! 895 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,800 What part did TikTok play here? 896 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:21,760 Jean is the town's mayor. 897 00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:21,560 The French EU Commissioner criticised social media sites 898 00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:23,880 for not doing enough to deal with the content. 899 00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:44,840 As a moderator, it felt like you were there as kind of a front 900 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,480 for TikTok to say that they were trying their best. 901 00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:49,720 But you were very much aware while you were moderating 902 00:48:49,720 --> 00:48:53,840 that this is an impossible task because of the speed of how quickly 903 00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:58,240 someone can upload something and it being available for everyone to see. 904 00:48:58,240 --> 00:49:02,040 You're constantly playing catch-up with, like, an invisible beast, 905 00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:05,440 which the algorithm is. It's kind of like wildfire spreading. 906 00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:07,240 So you can kind of put out the main fire, 907 00:49:07,240 --> 00:49:09,520 but, like, all of the little fires are still there 908 00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:11,600 and people can see it and... 909 00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:15,600 Yeah, it's dangerous. 910 00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:17,360 SCREAMING 911 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:22,240 Only weeks after my trip to Paris, something else happened - 912 00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:25,440 disorder in the centre of London, with hundreds of teenagers 913 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:29,720 descending on Oxford Circus, talking about looting the shops. 914 00:49:29,720 --> 00:49:31,560 Police issued a dispersal order. 915 00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:35,120 Sadiq Khan directly blamed social media. 916 00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,040 I'm worried about this nonsense we've seen on TikTok 917 00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:40,720 encouraging people to go to Oxford Street. 918 00:49:40,720 --> 00:49:43,560 I'd encourage anybody who's seen that not to go. 919 00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:48,960 Don't allow yourself to be sucked in by this sort of criminality. 920 00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,120 What seemed to have started on Snapchat, like in France, 921 00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,600 had been picked up and shared more widely on TikTok. 922 00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:59,000 Several I've spoken to told me that if they hadn't seen those videos 923 00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,240 on TikTok, they wouldn't have turned up. 924 00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:07,320 If I was a copper today, I'd be absolutely furious with TikTok, 925 00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:10,320 and I want the Government to throw the book at that lot. 926 00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:13,800 That should never have been allowed up. 927 00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,720 When I first started using TikTok during the Covid-19 pandemic, 928 00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:18,520 it was all dances and life hacks. 929 00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:20,760 Now almost every major global news event 930 00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:23,480 unfolds on my For You page in real time, 931 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,800 including events I just wouldn't have come across before. 932 00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:28,600 When I first heard about those Idaho murders, 933 00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:30,560 I had no idea what I'd uncover. 934 00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:34,240 Having spoken to TikTok insiders and people caught up in these frenzies, 935 00:50:34,240 --> 00:50:37,120 it seems to me that they're really difficult to get on top of - 936 00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:39,800 and not just that, but there isn't the incentive to. 937 00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,960 After all, a slower and less participatory TikTok 938 00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,920 doesn't seem to be the goal for the social media company. 939 00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,680 All of these frenzies seem really out of control, 940 00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:51,640 but what happens when someone works out how to harness them - 941 00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,520 and the behaviour connected to them - for their own aims? 942 00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:57,120 That seems pretty scary. 943 00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:00,680 Do you think TikTok is good or bad for the world? 944 00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:03,000 I think it's probably a net negative. 945 00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,480 I don't believe that a platform with short, addictive videos 946 00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,960 consuming so much of our time can be a positive. 947 00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,960 If you had children, would you let them use TikTok? 948 00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:20,360 No, definitely not. I would not let any of my children use TikTok. 949 00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,360 I think it's impossible to work at TikTok 950 00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:27,840 and to then send your children on that site as well. 951 00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,680 It's very telling that all of the CEOs of big social media companies, 952 00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:34,160 their children aren't on social media platforms. 953 00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:38,480 So, long term, I do think it is necessary for regulation 954 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,560 to step in and create real incentives for platforms 955 00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:43,160 to design responsibly. 956 00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:46,320 If you just want to maximise, you know, your usage next week, 957 00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,040 show people lots of misinformation, show people hate speech, 958 00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,480 you know, show people dangerous, violent content, 959 00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:55,600 that is what is going to get people to watch your platform next week. 960 00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,480 If you want to maximise how many people are using your app 961 00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,920 a year from now or five years from now, 962 00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:04,680 you're going to have to think about something very, very different. 134108

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