All language subtitles for Ghosts of Sugar Land - Những Bóng Ma Vùng Sugar Land

Is there a red light
that tells me it's recording?

It's recording.

What am I supposed to call him?

Uh, let's call him...

- Mark?
- Steve.

- Steve?
- Or Mark.

What's wrong with "Mark"?
Mark's easier. It's a four-letter word.

I've started recording,
just so you know... to have the masks on.

Okay.

How's this?

What sparked this?

'Cause it's always kinda been there,
but...

why the sudden, you know,
interest in focusing on Mark?

I'm sure you've come back,
you know, to Houston and...

heard stuff here and there.

You've seen the stuff on Facebook.
Like, why now?

He was a good guy.
I mean, you'd never think...

whatever happened to him
or whatever he... did would be possible.

A few months ago,

I, along with several other people,

ran across the Turkish border.

I am now currently living
in the Islamic State.

I saw, like,
Facebook posts that he was going...

to join ISIS. And ever since then,

I-- I just cut him off of Facebook
as well.

When I found out
he was actually living there,

the first stage of, you know,
is just denial.

Like, "No way. It can't be true.

It can't be one of the people
I grew up with."

Uh, I think he just went
full throttle with that.

The other rumor is
that he is an FBI informant.

Because his conviction...

was too strong.

Especially in the Houston area,
there were a few converts who were...

FBI informants.
Like, that has happened in the past.

This is not just paranoia, right?

This is, like, real.

He was assigned a case,
to work this area,

his group of friends...

- and, uh, he flunked--
- Yeah, it sounds--

it sounds more like that.
Yeah, it sounds more like that,

but at the same time,
if that's true, then that sucks!

'Cause we were his friends. Like--

Maybe he never saw y'all as friends.
Maybe, since day one,

you know, y'all-- y'all were a target.
Y'all were a target!

- Moses.
- Did you see the toys?

We'll just keep an eye
on 'em from behind you.

- What?
- Keep moving back.

Yeah.

Even if he knew that this was
about him, I don't think he'd watch it.

I just feel like he wouldn't watch it,

'cause a lot of things don't phase him
if it's against him.

- It's not like--
- Wouldn't matter to him.

It's not like we have to wear
these masks

because of something we did.
We have to wear these

- because of what he did.
- Yeah.

And that's important
for him to know.

Yeah, so if Mark saw this,

he'd be like, "Look at these Muslims.
They're covering their faces,

and they've done nothing wrong."

I mean, yeah. I mean, that's the state

- of a Muslim in this country.
- Yeah.

It's to be scared.

It's not all scared. Also because
we're not-- We can't be selfish, right?

- We have other people depending on us.
- Yeah.

And for us,
being in this sensitive state,

that's selfish, man.
That's very selfish,

knowing that you could put your friends
at risk, especially preaching this stuff.

The things that he sends out
and things he tries to get us to do

are so over-the-top

that it almost seems
like he's purposely trying to bait us

into something.

And that's the only reason,
I imagine, why people would think

that he's a spy,
because, uh, it just seems so... bad.

Right? So cliché that...

it's almost unbelievable.

He was my best friend.

When I met him in middle school,

I don't remember him having many friends,
if any at all.

Socially, in a-- in a group,

I-- I saw that he was an outcast.

He knew it, and I knew it,
and everybody knew.

I remember, one time
we were playing volleyball,

and somebody needed something,
and he was like,

"Here.
I'm wearing an extra pair of jeans."

He didn't have a belt to wear,
so instead, he wore two pairs of jeans.

It's just the weirdest thing in the world,
but Mark did Mark.

He kinda... He stood out, though.
He was the only black guy

in a... a group of brown people.

When we turned 18,
we decided to try the club scene.

And that's always fun and interesting,
uh...

'cause Mark doesn't drink
or talk to girls.

So I don't really know what he was doing
in the clubs with me.

But he basically went there
to take care of me.

I would find ways to sneak drinks,

and he would watch my back while I did it.

And then, uh...

I would try to say,

"Hey, let's-- let's go dance
with some girls," and, uh...

he would say,
"You know, you go ahead and dance.

I'll just-- I'll keep an eye on you
from back here."

He wasn't-- He wasn't a judgmental person.

He said, you know,
"You do you, and that's fine.

You know, I-- I do me."
And we-- we still got along.

Looking back,
all of his troubles were with him trying

to find somebody who he belongs with.

And growing up in Sugar Land,

Sugar Land was all about a melting pot.

A lot of Desis moved here,
a lot of East Asians.

And it became incredibly diverse,

but the African-American population
always remained low.

There weren't any black kids at school.

Or really have any other, you know,
black kids to relate to.

Today someone said,

"You're the nicest black person I've met."

Why can't I just be a nice person?

He couldn't wear

what was traditionally considered
"black clothing,"

'cause he, you know--
people would say he's not real black.

Uh, he tried the goth, emo, punk,

you know, stuff from Hot Topic.
It didn't really work.

Kinda just tried everything,

you know, just throw a bunch
against the wall,

see what sticks type of thing,
and nothing really stuck.

Because he grew up around us,
like, he liked our culture, too.

Our friends and I
were just debating with him, like,

"You're already hanging out with us
this much,

you already believe the same things
we believe.

Why not just say a few words,
accept the religion,

and just pray with us
so that you're 100 % Muslim?"

We were just hanging out in my car,

and I told him what to say
and what to repeat,

and he did it.

And I was like, "Did anything change?
Do you feel any different?"

And he was like,
"No, I feel exactly the same."

I'm like, "That's all it is.
It's what's in your heart that counts."

He converted at least three times.

Went to the Shahada,
which says you officially converted.

And every time he converted,
he got those big group of hugs

he gets from uncles and people.

We-- We tried our best
to include him in everything.

Mark still never really fit in,
even when he became a Muslim.

He was always that "black Muslim."

We used to call him Beyoncé.

I remember we called him Beyoncé.

The effortless joke.
Uh, you know, something about...

black people and fried chicken,
or black people and watermelon.

He would fire back with...

you know, Pakistanis owning
convenience stores and gas stations.

He was still a black guy
with a bunch of brown folk.

We still had our language,
we still spoke our language.

We did our best to keep him involved.

I don't think we ever did, uh--
made him feel isolated.

A Muslim is
the bottom of the barrel in this country.

Like, period.

Like, the blacks have it better
than a Muslim.

The whites have it better than a Muslim--

- Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
- What you mean?

He was the butt of the jokes,
you know?

He was the one that was getting picked on,
and, like, he was going along with it

at that time, but...

over time, people start getting
more sensitive to things,

and you just don't know where,
you know, things go wrong.

After he accepted Islam,
he only did more good things to, uh...

to spend more time at the masjid.

While the cultured,
first-generation American-Muslims

who were born and raised here
all did the bad things

that any other high schooler would do,
Mark never did any of those things.

He started asking questions about Islam,

and, you know,
we tried our best to answer 'em.

A lot of times, we didn't have the answers

and we told him to, you know--
We told him, "Look, um,

we don't exactly know.
You should probably seek out the answer."

And, uh, I think that was
where things started going weird.

Why is it that I see

so many people born into Islam

forming opinions and--
and patterns of behavior

outside of Islam?

Is it out of misinformation?

Or do people simply not care
about right between wrong?

I think it was after college

when we started seeing a change.

He couldn't get a job
because he did poli-science.

And, uh, yeah, he couldn't do it.
He-- He didn't, like--

He didn't have the opportunity
of getting a-- a proper job.

He finally got a job, and he left.

He left for a good six months to a year.

He did contract work
as a truck driver for some oil place

in some very, uh--
Uh, white town.

The individuals
that he dealt with

didn't like Muslims at all.

I think that's when it started--
started changing a little bit.

Like, he was almost solidified
in his belief

that, uh, the non-Muslims are the enemies
of the Muslim, right?

And then, uh,
we have to establish a caliphate.

He was passing out CDs
of Anwar al-Aulaqi,

calling for Jihad, I believe.

And people were like,
"Dude, you can't do this.

Like, this is...
a really, really bad situation.

You're gonna call undue attention
on these Muslims,

and they don't want to get any attention
from the feds in any way."

So once that happened,
I think he was kicked out.

He hated everything
that was happening

to the Muslims all over the world.

Um, and he blamed, I guess, the Muslims
who were having fun more than they should.

I remember walking into Kroger's
in Sweetwater,

and I saw him... stocking.

And he had, like,
a huge beard at that time.

I was like, "What's up with the beard?"
This, that, the other,

and he's like, "You know...

You guys don't know the religion right.
You just...

You-- You don't know anything.
You just-- You're by birth."

He goes on to say that,
"You guys are coconut Muslims.

You know, you justify
your Western society,

you know, to-- to-- to fit in with Islam.

Right?
But you're not gonna do the opposite.

You're not gonna take your Islam
and, you know,

justify it into your own life."

It's a very sad moment when you go
to the masjid for Friday prayers,

and you see people selling
beard trimmers outside.

Why do Muslim men wear shorts?

No one wants to see their private parts.

American Muslims,

you have done a great job
at staying silent

as your government killed
and pillaged people in Africa,

the Middle East, and Asia.

He's happy American soldiers
are coming home in body bags.

He would alhamdulillah,
and, uh, hopefully--

And, uh, you know,

"Let's keep praying for the destruction
of anybody who stands in our path."

He sees the brothers and sisters
over here living nice and comfortably,

not really being able to care
for the people over there

that are being hurt,
that are being killed.

When you tell me
that he converts to Islam,

"Bam, now I feel bad...
...about people."

Just to show people how-- how strong,
how I believe.

That-- That's not--
That seems more immature,

and that seems even selfish.

You are over here living comfortable,
living cushy

with, you know, your schools,
and your, uh, degrees, and your jobs,

and, you know, this whole, you know, life.

You almost sound like him right now.

You almost sound like--
like this is us versus them.

You're doing what the--
what the Sith do, talking absolutes.

He's putting himself in their shoes.

That's why he's getting...
angry and upset.

So, in that sense, like,
I do agree with him.

You know, somebody needs to step up
and do something.

Because the world is just watching
these people get basically pummeled

into the ground.

I still felt like this guy is legit
in what he's saying.

He's just not articulating it properly,

because the audience
that he's catering to has just,

you know, embraced Western culture.

The suburban Desi, the Sugar Land Desi,

he's tryin' to be as American as possible.

With everything
that was being said bad about...

Muslims on the-- on the news
and on the Internet,

I guess everyone wanted to say,

"Hey, look,
I'm not like that type of Muslim.

I'm not like Osama Bin Laden.

You know, I'm...
I'm born and raised here in America.

I'm different."

You know,
I was told, "Don't go paintballing,

at least until things cool down."
Any other activity like that,

that could be construed
as a militant activity,

we were told to stay away from,
for your own good.

You don't wanna get on the hook
for that.

Like, after 9/11, I remember...

I had all these, like, T-shirts.
Like, I had, like, a-- an MSA,

Muslim Students Association, shirts.

Uh, my mom was, like, not cool with that.

One day, she threw them all away.
'Cause she was like,

"I don't want you wearing these,
and I don't want people to, like, know...

you're a part of this community,"

because she was afraid
that I would be targeted.

American Muslims,

please wake up.

If the kafir

truly feared the Muslims...

...they would not be killing us globally.

The fact they don't fear us

is why they keep shedding our blood.

It is obligatory for Muslims in Iraq

and Afghanistan

to engage in jihad.

How the fuck is he getting away
with this shit?

He was on Facebook posting
for how many months?

That's why there's
two sides to what I believe in.

- Right.
- And you can make

really strong arguments for both sides.

- For both sides.
- Very strong.

Mark got away with murder.

If anybody said what--
the shit that Mark said--

If we said, yeah.

Yeah. If any brown person
with a Muslim name

said the shit Mark said,
we would be locked up doing life.

Openly talked about jihad

on, you know, online, on the Internet,

on YouTube, on social media, right?

In high school and during college,
there was none of that.

But then, all of a sudden,
this huge change, post-graduation.

It's not out of this world
to believe that...

that a convert,
somebody who converted to Islam,

was found out to be an FBI informant.

A lot of people
were just kind of shocked

at the fact that, you know... um...

FBI agents had been embedded so firmly
in the Houston Muslim community.

An FBI car would be parked
outside of my house

because my brother was at madrassa.

And we'd know that we were getting,
you know, tracked.

Always happens.

Mom and Dad is ex-military. Right?

None of this is going on
before graduation.

Post-graduation, Mom and Dad is like,

"You know what? Our baby needs a job."

Get him up there to DC,
do some training for six, seven months,

send him back down here as a mole,

and, uh... uh, get to work.

Mark, on his Facebook,
checks into Turkey.

And that's when I'm like...

- "Fuck." I was like...
- "What?"

I went around telling everybody,
'cause Turkey, at that time,

was known as, like,
this portal into ISIS, right?

So, a couple weeks passed by,
and bam, there it is.

I wake up this one morning,
and there's a fucking big ass message.

And I get this huge hard-on

'cause I'm about to read it.

I am now currently living
in the Islamic State.

I'm sure some people want to know
what life is like here,

so I'll tell you honestly.

So, he was open about himself being
in Syria.

He gave, like, a full-on, thorough,
Yelp-type review about ISIS.

Food.

You won't find Chinese takeaway,

Mexican, or sushi.

Cell phones.
Cell phones are available here.

However, all service has been banned
due to American drones.

Slavery. Slaves do exist here.

I personally haven't seen any.

Television.

The Islamic State allows television.

Two out of ten for this shit.

Four out of five for this bullshit.

You know,
Internet, fuckin' zero out of ten.

So it was very like Mark complaints.

But it-- it-- it's just, you know...

It's sad, sad to see where he is.

Sad to see what's happened to him,
if it's true.

If he's an FBI informant,
then at least he got a job.

I go back and forth.

I-- I think a part of me thinks he did.

Uh, now. Like, at this point--
if you ask me tomorrow,

I'll probably be like,
"Nah, he's an FBI informant."

I would 100 % rather have him be an agent

than to be radicalized.

Because it is--
it is more heartbreaking for me...

to believe...

to know that he, uh...

that he really believes the things
that he says.

That, to me, is more heartbreaking
than for him to be an agent

tryin' to, you know...

Or being an informant,
tryin' to save his own ass.

That, to me, is not as heartbreaking

as it is to know
that he actually believes the bullshit

that he preaches.

You know, I-- I feel like...
like I let him down.

That I'm somewhat responsible.

Because, like I was saying earlier,
it's that...

you know, he asked us
these questions about Islam.

And if I could have just answered
those questions for him,

even if I didn't have the answers,

if I could have guided him
to the right sources...

he wouldn't be this way.

He would say, "Hey, why is--
Why does the Koran say this?"

Or, "Why does the Koran say that?"

And we'd say, "I don't fucking know,
you know? Go look it up."

And I feel like that's--
that's where everything went wrong.

That if I could have just either
answered those questions for him,

or if I didn't have the answers, taken him
to somebody who did have the answers,

maybe he'd still be with us...
one of us, today.

Has anyone here prepared
for the possibility

that he may not even be alive
at this point?

That's what-- More and more,
that-- that question plagues me more than,

"Oh, was he a spy?
Or was he... was he really radicalized?

Did he do this on purpose,
or is it just what happened?

Is it a mental thing?"
That, I think about that far less

than I actually think about the--
the idea that,

"Is this guy--"

- "Has he passed? Is he dead?"
- Well--

I'm pretty sure--
I'm assuming--

That's something I struggle with
more than anything else.