All language subtitles for Behind.the.Monsters.S01E06.720p.AMZN.WEBRip.x264-GalaxyTV_track3_[eng]

- He is elegant and
regal and horrific.

- My first meeting with
Clive he gave me a rundown

of what he wanted,
repulsive glamor.

That was my mood board.

- Clive thought
of him as a cross

between a monk and a butcher.

- What's interesting
about that character,

Pinhead's not even named in
the credits of that film.

- Who are you?
- Demons to some,

angels to others.

- One of most unparalleled

creative imaginations
in horror cinema.

- "Every inch of
its head had been tattooed

and, at every intersection,

a jeweled pin driven
through to the bone."

- This was a game changer.

This articulate,
kind of soft-spoken
gentlemen with power,

who could really-

- Tear your soul apart!

- He has become the
enduring image of the franchise.

- There are people who've
never seen "Hellraiser"

who know Pinhead.

- Welcome to hell.

- I think when people
came out of "Hellraiser"

for that first time,
they said, "Hey,

check out the guy with
the pins in his head."

I didn't really
have a sense that

that was what was
going to happen.

I would love to
say that, "Oh yeah.

Of course, it was all
planned." It wasn't.

- He, I don't think ever set
out to create a movie monster

in the way of Freddy
or Dracula or the like.

He wanted to more so
allegorically explore

who we are when we
close the door at night.

- I'll do anything you want.

Anything.

- That self that we don't
show the rest of the world,

but that everybody has.

- One of the things
that makes Pinhead

and the Cenobites so
successful in the movie is

that we don't know
anything about them.

They arrive and they tell
you a lot about themselves,

but then they're very
good at giving you a lot

of information while
telling you nothing.

- It was the
Cenobite, its hooks sparkling,

their anatomies catalogs
of disfigurement.

- By the end of the movie,
you say to yourself,

"Well, those Cenobites, who
are they? What are they?"

You don't know.

That's power because the
scariest things are the things

that we can't explain,

the things that we
can't hang a label on.

- The box, you
opened it. We came.

- Who are you?

- Explorers in the further
regions of experience.

- My relationship
with Clive goes back

a long way before "Hellraiser."

We were at high school
together in Liverpool.

He was already at
school writing,

directing, and starring in,

and hand drawing the
posters for, his own plays.

I think 1985 he first mentioned
to me that he was trying

to put this little independent,

British horror movie together
and that there was a part

in there he thought I
might be interested in.

We talked about the
character a lot.

Of course, didn't have
a name at that point

and I'd seen drawings.

I'd read "The Hellbound Heart."

But, it's the female Cenobite
who's the main protagonist.

So, the next step
is the screenplay.

Then, it's whatever happens
between the words on the page

and your imagination as an
actor and then the makeup

and the costume, which is
90% of the deal I think.

- There's a description
in "The Hellbound Heart"

of what the Cenobites look like.

- When
it spoke, the hooks

that transfixed the flaps
of its eyes and were wed,

by an intricate system
of chains passed

through flesh and bone alike.

- And it indicates
that they're sort

of what we would now
call modern primitives,

people who've made an art
form of their own bodies,

piercing, scarification,
brandings of various kinds.

Back then it was much,

much harder to see that.

There was much less
of that around.

- Clive had shown me a magazine
when we were talking about

and preparing for "Hellraiser,"

which was called "Piercing
Fans International Quarterly,"

PFIQ, that was filled with
pictures of people slicing

and dicing every inch
of their anatomy.

- Whether you're
designing a wedding dress

or a supermasochist
from Hell's outfit,

you're gathering your resources.

So, PFIQ was a resource.

What I do remember was there
was quite a lot of anxiety

about the fact that I could
only have the magazines

for a limited amount of time

because the person who
owned them was very anxious

to have them back.

My first meeting with
Clive he gave me a rundown

of what he wanted
for these characters

and I actually have
my sketchbook here

from the 20th of April, 1986.

One, areas of revealed
flesh where some kind

of torture has or is occurring.

Two, something associated
with butchery involved.

This is typical Clive
notes for a meeting.

Then a question mark.

Butchers chain mail
aprons and gauntlets,

abattoir ware, and then,

and this is such a Clive
phrase, repulsive glamor.

That was really, that was my
mood board, repulsive glamor.

Then, we have a note
about jeweled hooks

and torture instruments
which Pinhead

had hanging from his body.

Very interesting how the
investment of personal vision

and lived experience
in those characters.

So, Clive's S&M, my interest
in death and transformation.

Mythical creatures
point to deeper truths

and are informed by
lived experience.

- Sexuality is very much a
driving force in "Hellraiser."

The sadomasochism of the
Cenobites is front and center.

Jane and I've talked about
this being perversity

as a fashion statement
with the Cenobites

and the way in which costume
and the flesh are interwoven.

You see it in Pinhead's costume.

The flaps of flash
come over the costume

and they're held
in place by hooks.

The whole idea of
self-mutilation feeds
into that as well,

which is an essential element
in the way the Cenobites look.

- I was remembering going to
this deep sea fishing place

in North London and
walking in and saying,

"What are the most brutal
hooks that you've got?"

And then, I started to
explaining why I wanted them.

And they said they thought that
I was somebody who had come

to kind of do some
inspection of animal cruelty.

Whereas in fact, I was just
wanting something that the guys

in PFIQ might have liked.

Everyone was very happy
with the drawings.

And so, then, it was just a
rush of order the materials,

start cutting the patterns,

molding the shapes for the
top parts of the costumes.

- Makeup and costume are often
intrinsically linked simply

because, when you have a makeup,

like one of the Cenobites,

that is literally intrinsically
linked to the costume,

so it's like leapfrogging
over each other.

Jane gave us the designs.

We worked in what we would be
able to do with all of them.

With Pinhead, there are
five individual pieces

that make up the makeup.

Biggest piece of the
makeup was a cowl piece.

It was the back of his head

and it went round
behind his ears

and then down around his neck

with the three
hooks on the back.

You then had a face piece
that went from across the top

of his head, down across here,

and around here with holes there

and then a forehead piece
that went across from there

to there, across the scars,

and then, to finish
off, two soft pieces

that finish across
scars down there

and blended in
around the back there

with a hole for his ears
and they would be put

on in a specific order.

- Every inch of
its head had been tattooed

with an intricate grid,

and at every intersection
of horizontal

and vertical axes a jeweled
pin driven through to the bone.

- I think it's 112
nails in his head.

I actually took a life
cast of Doug's face

and projected some lines
onto it to give me the basis

for where I wanted
the lines to go.

The original design
had tiny little

silver sewing pins
with little heads.

My problem with it,
and I said to Clive,

"I'm really worried about this.

I don't think the pins
will show up on film

because they're so thin."

We did one days test
shooting with Doug

and with the pins in.

The pins just didn't show up.

You saw glints of light.

It was almost like a flickering
halo around his head.

So, we very, very quickly,
I think it was about a week

or two to the start of shooting,

I basically took
some brass tubing,

cut it into one inch lengths,

and then cut the ends off
brass nails and superglued them

to the end of the tubing and
each makeup then consisted

of a layer of latex and
then a pin pushed through,

and then a nail pushed
over the top of that.

So, he was called Pinhead
because he had pins.

Otherwise, he might've
been Nailhead,

which doesn't sound
quite as good.

One of Clive's stipulations

of the design was he
wanted Doug's face.

He did not want to lose Doug.

That was major,
major stipulation.

- What Jeff was doing
from a technical point

of view was phenomenal.

Long before the days of CGI,

what it meant was you could see

all the expression
on Doug's face.

I mean, it was a really
sophisticated and subtle piece

of makeup innovation in its
day and that is a huge key,

I think, to the power
of Doug's performance

because we can actually
see his facial expressions.

It's not an immobile mask.

- When I had the makeup
on for the first time

and it had taken five or six
hours to get the makeup on

and I just sat in the chair
in front of the mirror.

I look in the mirror
and I'm not there.

It's this thing is now looking
back at me and it's strange.

A whole multitude of
sensations were coming back

off the mirror, different
feelings I had suddenly

about what the character was.

- He stood very still and
didn't move his face and I said,

"Doug, try it: Smile."
And he went, "Oh!"

And he suddenly realized that
he could do all the things

that the actor wants to do.

- And then you can start
wondering what happens

if I try talking and saying one

of Clive's wonderful
lines through the makeup.

How's that reading?

- We have such
sights to show you.

- That's really weird, that
dichotomy between the two,

between how Doug
Bradley physically
embodied the character,

but how he looked and the horror

that is expressed
through his physicality

versus how he speaks and how
he kind of carries himself

and I think that's what
was seductive about it.

- First day of filming
on "Hellraiser,"

I was really getting one
note back from Clive.

He'd finally got this
character living,

breathing, walking, talking,
standing in front of him.

He's looking at it in the
camera, getting very excited.

I got one note from him
repeatedly the first few takes:

"Do less, do less.

What you're doing is
fantastic, just do less."

What he was saying was
"Don't fight the makeup.

If you are selling us nothing
and through that makeup,

you're telling us that you'll
tear our soul apart it works.

And, by the time it goes
up on the big screen,

it will work even more."

- But if you cheat us.

- We'll tear your soul apart!

- Pinhead entirely hinged
on the performance.

You can smack pins
in somebody's head

and have them walk around
in that crazy S&M vestment.

But, at the end of the day,

Pinhead talks and that's
not something that we saw

in all of the monsters
from this time period.

If we look back, many of
them were just silent,

giant, hulking menaces walking
through woods and suburbs.

Pinhead had to speak
and he had to deliver

and he had to be very menacing

and calculating and frightening.

- When you have an actor
who's allowed to actually act,

you have a different
kind of personality.

- Doug Bradley did
such a good job.

I mean, the delivery
of those lines.

- Frank.
- It's him.

It's his voice.
It's his delivery.

It's his face.

It's all of the things that
he did that brought Pinhead

to life and made
Pinhead so magical.

- He is elegant and
regal and horrific

and you definitely don't want
him showing up in your house.

But, you can't help
but be in thrall

of that command he holds.

- Pinhead wears those
nails like it's regalia,

with his chin held high and
with these imposing monologues.

- You solved the box. We came.

Now you must come with us.

- What's interesting
about the character,

Pinhead's not even named in
the credits of that film.

We don't know it's Pinhead, yet
that's what we think of now.

- What really speaks to that,

I think, is that he has
become the enduring image

of the franchise despite barely
being in that first film.

He just stole the whole thing.

- Pinhead is sort of an
outlier when it comes

to the other
eighties horror icons

because the initial intent
for the character was not

to make him the lead
villain of the franchise.

- People really
responded to this

very strange and
unusual character.

He wasn't someone just
in a mask or a hood

or something like that.

He just sort of, I think,

kind of accidentally
became an icon.

- You look at Michael
Myers, you know what he is.

He's a mass killer.

You look at Pinhead you're like-

- What the fuck is that?

- Up until that point,
monsters were either kind

of funny, wise cracking.

- You've got the body,

I've got the brain.

- Or they were silent.

But, when we were introduced
to Clive Barker's Pinhead,

it was this demonic icon who
could really destroy you.

- We want the man who did this.

- He's good at his
job and he enjoys it.

But, he's not as gleeful
about it as say Chucky

or Freddy might be.

He's simply there to do the work

and he wants you to
join him in hell.

- Pinhead is different
from the other

great eighties horror monsters

in that it's not
really a slasher.

He's more of a psychological
monster and less

of the physical dread.

- One of the things
that makes Pinhead

so much more interesting
in my opinion than Freddy

or Michael Myers or
Jason Voorhees is

that you feel he is
a man of the world.

He's seen it all and
he's bored with it all

and I think that's
kind of interesting.

- When Pinhead
confronts someone,

he doesn't just jump
out and kill them.

He wants to hear about those
murky cobwebbed corners

in your head that you
don't really talk about,

those dirty perverse corners,

the corners that
horror lives in.

- There's not the kind of
the stalking of the prey

that you see in the
"Friday the 13th" movies

or "Nightmare on Elm Street."

It's not like Jason
cutting someone's head off.

This is more about
you being corrupted

by your own curiosity.

- What's your
pleasure, Mr. Cotton?

- The box.

- Pinhead and the
Cenobites represent that.

- Pinhead is the
one you graduate to.

That was my step
into adult horror.

- Super bondagey
and BDSM realness

that you hadn't
really seen before.

- Oh, no tears, please. It's
a waste of good suffering!

- It's one of the best
character designs we'll ever see

and the performance and
the voice grabbed us.

- But, I also love the fact

that Pinhead can
be bargained with

and what's great about Kirsty,

as the kind of
"Hellraiser" final girl,

is that she knows how
to manipulate him.

So, when he shows up,
she's like, "Ah, ah, ah!

Before you start flaying
flash, I know where Frank is."

- He escaped you!

- Nobody escapes us!

- He did! I've
seen him, I've seen him!

- And Pinhead's like, "I'm
listening. Tell me more."

And I love that because
he's not just a guy

that says, "I'm
going to kill you."

He's someone that loves
a good conversation.

- What has that to do with you?

- I, I can, I can
lead you to him!

And you, you can take
him back instead of me!

- Maybe, maybe.

- Pinhead out of all
the boogeymen is kind

of a dude I'd love
to have a drink with

or some tea and talk
about the limits of flesh

and all these kinds of things.

- Clive is great for this.

He'll give you your kind
of imaginative insight

into a character that you
can't get anywhere else.

So, he told me he thought of
him as a cross between a monk

and a butcher, that I
should think of myself

being the head
surgeon in a hospital.

But, I'm also the
chief bureaucrat,

the chief administrator
responsible

for keeping things
running on time.

- Every other slasher
villain takes a pleasure

in the crimes they commit.

They take joy in these
murders and these kills.

Charles Lee Ray wants to be a
bad guy. Jason wants revenge.

Michael Myers is the
epitome of pure evil.

There's something really
terrifying about a villain

that lives with a completely
different set of rules

and moral codes than
anything else on the plane

that you exist in 'cause I
don't think Pinhead or any

of the Cenobites are villains
necessarily in their realm.

They are just doing the thing
that they are supposed to.

- Pinhead, he's just
doing what he's told, man.

He's just dealing with
the politics of Hell.

Somebody calls him. He shows up.

He does what he's
supposed to be doing.

But, Julia is truly for me,
the villain of the movie.

- Oh, the baddest bitch.

She didn't have any powers
and she was still going

after people and clocking
them with a hammer.

You see this degradation
of her character driven

by her sexual desire and this
decomposition of her morals

and then she just becomes
this murderous, crazy bitch.

- I mean, part of me
is like, "I get it.

She wants her some uncle Frank

'cause her husband
is not doing it

for her the way
Uncle Frank used to."

- Come to daddy.

- I think she's so underrated.

Pinhead, of course,
became the star, right?

- I don't know if the world
was ready to recognize her

as a true monster.

She was being upstaged
by Pinhead and his lot.

- Now, where were we?

- The original story that
"Hellraiser" is based off of,

the lead center bite is kind
of its secondary character.

Instead we focus
on family dynamic.

- You going to
let me kiss the bride?

- What about Larry?

- Forget him.

- And then steps in the 1980s.

In 1987, we had learned
our lesson in Hollywood

of how we needed to be
marketing horror movies.

We have to have a monster.

We have to have the face that
is going to go on the poster

and that is what is going to
sell this franchise forward.

So, what do they
put on the poster?

It is Pinhead grinding
his teeth, holding a box

and that's really all we need.

- That was the first time
I remember just going like,

"Whoa, the villain!"

They knew that the story of
Hellraiser was way crazier

than just the image of Pinhead.

- So much for the
cat and mouse shit!

- And, so they could put
pinhead on the tape cover just

to get you to take it home.

- I feel like a
terrified people.

I mean, I remember seeing it
and being like, "What is that?"

Because you, of course,
saw other movie monsters,

Jason, Freddy, things like that.

But, this person wore,
their torment on their face,

which is really unusual just
to see that on a box cover.

It was so striking.

I really think that that
was genius marketing.

Obviously, there were
other horror movies

that were super
gruesome back then,

but none that reached that
level of media attention.

- Do you want as much graphic
detail in the violence

and in the gore as you can get?

- No. No, I don't think the
graphicness is the point.

The issue is getting
people involved

and then making them jump.

It's got to be a
roller coaster ride.

You've got to deliver.

If people put down the
seven bucks to see the movie

and they'll seeing
a horror movie,

they don't want to
see "Little Mermaid."

- "Hellraiser:"
Satan's done waitin'!

- When "Hellraiser" came about,

I remember being freaked out

because it was something I
never seen in horror before.

I mean, it was a brand new
character, a whole new concept.

There was something
about Pinhead,

just the coldness of him

and that was more
eerie than anything.

- You just heard people talking
about it. There was a buzz.

They were like, "Oh my God,
it's so satanic and crazy."

And so I just knew, I was like,

"This is a different
kind of horror movie."

- Clive Barker did bring this
sadomasochistic vibe to horror

and didn't hide it,

celebrating through
Pinhead the mixture

of pleasure and pain.

- Leather and straps and
chains and flayed flesh

and nipples hanging out.

It was like, "Oh my God,
that's fuckin' gnarly."

- Plus, they had British
accents, so that's sexy as fuck.

- Oh, yes!
- "Hellraiser" is the horniest

slasher franchise
you will ever see.

Clive Barker is a man who likes

to keep his kinks on his sleeve.

He likes to let you
know what he's feeling

and he's telling you that
you're probably into it too.

You just don't know it yet.

- I was a little turned on.

I was like, "Okay, this is
kind of cool. Good look, man.

That's bold, kind of terrifying,

what you do with the chains."

- He offers you something
that sounds seductive.

- We have such
sights to show you!

- What is that going to be?

- Taste our pleasures.

- And Frank gets ripped
apart at the end.

So, what he's
offering you is awful.

- The image of Pinhead and
the surrounding Cenobites

and the mystery around
what they want is something

that can continue to
haunt you over time.

They're intriguing.

They're hard to get your
head wrapped around.

They're both inviting,
but also terrifying.

There's a glamorous
element to them.

But, there's also something
repulsive about them.

There's always this irony.

When Pinhead says "We have
such sights to show you,"

he means it.

Sometimes an idea persists
because it provokes us

in strange ways, both
alluring and terrifying,

and we never really
make peace with it

and I think the Cenobites
have the power to do that

in a way that none of the
other eighties icons do.

- It just grabbed you. Like,
"This is unbelievable!"

They knew what they
were doing though.

That's why people
were flocking to it.

That's why I was
such a huge success.

- By the time
"Hellraiser" comes out

at the end of the eighties,

we've already had a decade
full of slasher movies.

So, in some ways,

it makes sense that
"Hellraiser" grabbed audiences

because, on the outside,

it looks like
another one of these

until you get into the
movie and dig into the story

and realize it's the
antithesis of it.

- He took the slasher format

and then he dropped
pure Gothic horror

into the middle of it and the
Cenobites are out of time.

They don't belong in the 1980s.

I think it's a really clever
balance that Clive found was

to embrace what was
current in 1980s era

and then subvert it.

- I think part of what it did

and why it was executed so well
is that the whole landscape

of the eighties
handled sexuality

as something to be forbidden.

The whole notion of if
you have sex you die.

And "Hellraiser's" like,

"It is way more
complicated than that.

If you have sex, you may die.

But, if you have sex,

all these other things
could happen too."

- Jesus wept.

- None of us, apart from
Clive and the producers,

ever thought that this was
going to see the light of day.

The following year, when I
happened to be in New York,

when "Hellraiser" was released

and walkin' through Times Square

and seeing Doug
on big billboards

and that was when it hit me.

- It was a little
film with no money

and when we saw the
reviews coming out

and what people were
saying about some tarty,

little cheap horror flick
that it could have been

had it just disappeared
straight onto video

that we realized that there
was something bigger there,

which was nice.

- My first convention I
had no idea what to expect.

It took me a good 20
minutes or more just

to get into the
elevator because,

for the first time in my
life, I was surrounded.

"Mr. Bradley, Mr. Bradley,

could I had my picture
taken with you?

Would you sign this?"

I had no idea until that moment
that this thing was rolling

and growing out there
in horror fandom.

- Last year,
they brought Hell to earth!

- No!

- "Hellbound:
Hellraiser II." Time to play.

- We were midway through
shooting "Hellraiser"

when there started
to be a lot of talk

about New World wanted a sequel.

Once you get into sequels,
that begins to dilute.

It's absolutely inevitable
because you have

to start telling the backstory.

We want to know and I think,
as creators, we want to share.

So, right at the
beginning of "Hellbound,"

Clive starts putting in a
little bit of the back story.

the opening sequence of
"Hellbound" is entirely

about Pinhead's origins.

- Finding out that he used
to be a British soldier

that eventually
became this person

and then he recognizes that
he was human at some point-

- What is this?
- Really opens up a door of,

how self-aware are
these Cenobites?

- Wait!

I remember.

- I'm more scared of villains

that are hard to explain, right?

Once you give a
backstory to someone,

they become more human,

and, in fact, you can end
up sympathizing with them.

- Sequels are very hard.

I think you make a picture
which has some real originality

in the marketplace you're
going to get kicked hard

on the second picture.

- Our next movie is

"Hellbound: Hellraiser II."

The problem here is that there
was no discernible beginning,

middle, or end to
this nightmare,

just a series of disconnected
and gruesome scenes.

- I want to focus on one word

that you mentioned,
which is gruesome.

I mean, this film could be
actually titled "Skinned Alive."

- The second film's
a great film.

It's a very different
kind of film.

But, it opens up the universe.

It gives us a maze-like Hell,
which is really fantastic.

- "Hellraiser II" is actually
my favorite, "Hellbound."

I like it even more
than the first one

because it really
takes the mythology

into new and interesting places.

It has these incredibly
powerful images.

The shot of the skinless Julia,

bright red blood standing
in this white room is

one of the greatest
images, I think, in horror.

It takes the material
to even more interesting

and powerful and scary places.

- It's so good to be back.

- "Clive Barker
Hellraiser III:

Hell on Earth!"

- Three becomes playful fun.

Three does what probably
part four of "Nightmare" does

in a lot of ways.

It makes it a little more poppy.

- Ah, more friends come
to play with you, Joey.

- Play with this, Pinhead!

- That's the one where
they kind of tried

to turn him into a
sort of Freddy-type
jokester, killer guy.

- Pinhead's conceptual
origins were left behind

and they started
to transform him

into a wise cracking villain,

sort of this late phase
amalgamation of Freddy.

It starts losing its way.

- It became kind of
a bigger studio movie

where you feel the producer
is trying to extract

that we want Freddy Krueger.

- Jesus Christ!
- Not quite.

- Can we make pinhead
create more Cenobites?

One, maybe, maybe one's
got CDs in his head. CDs!

And you're like, "Fuck
off!" Like, "What is that?"

You could just feel
the studio notes

coming into "Hellraiser III."

- If I was going
to be a Cenobite,

I want to be the Cenobite
that had all the DVDs.

- Get it!
- I think it was

a bunch of CDs.
- "Hellraiser III," man!

- But, yeah, that
was pretty cool!

I do-
- You have have any problems

with "Hellraiser III"
this is another warning.

If you have any problems
with "Hellraiser III,"

I'm going to come to your house!

- Clive Barker-
- I will physically

fight people that
dislike "Hellraiser III."

I love that film!

- I love that movie!

It's not one that a
lot of people love.

But, I love part three.

In that, for some reason,

the camera crew becomes
camera crew Cenobites.

- That's a wrap.

- It made for
really interesting,
fascinating, fun movie.

- The first "Hellraiser" movie

I ever saw was "Hellraiser III."

Clive was not anticipating
that Pinhead would become

an icon in the way
we look at Jason

and Freddy and Michael Myers.

So, I think some of that
was born out of the idea

that the film was successful

and captured
people's imaginations

and that's how we understood

our horror villains at the time.

- It's really important
that we understand

that these monsters are
actually very attractive to us.

These monsters are
very powerful figures.

They're creatures who have
powers that maybe we want.

There's a part of us
that actually wants

to be these monsters.

- A powerful horror
icon is like a meme

that's born on the internet.

You never know what's going

to capture the audience's
imaginations and persist.

- Oh, hi, I'm Gilbert Gottfried!

Join me and him!
- You think your nighttime

world is closed to me?

- For "Hellraiser III!"

- And you are?

- Those who know
me call me Pinhead.

- Okay, let me take a
look see at the list.

Hmm, no Pinhead. Could
is be under Nailhead?

- Just let me in or I'll
tear your soul apart!

- The little filmed
inserts they used to do

with David Spade, famous people
on the list couldn't get in.

And that year it was me,

Andrew Dice Clay,
Roseanne, and Ringo Starr.

I was born and raised in
Liverpool in the 1960s

and I got out of the limo
and the PR girl said,

"Oh, it's a pleasure
to have you here.

If you could come this way
and just into the auditorium."

And I went around the corner
and Ringo had his back to me,

talking to some guys
and one of them went.

Ringo turned around and
looked at me and went,

"Hey, it's Pinhead!"

- Because of the saturation
of Pinhead and "Hellraiser,"

the third installment did so
well, that's how we got a four.

- Oh my God!

- Do I look like someone
who cares what God thinks?

- I did direct part four.

First of all, I didn't want
to do it because I thought,

"What am I going to bring to
this? It's 'Hellraiser' four."

But, what I loved about it is

that it showed how the
box was first created

that brings hell to us

and it went through 16th
century France to modern day,

all the way into space, into
the future, and I love that.

I love the, the
history and the arc

and I thought, "Well, this
is something interesting

'cause the fans will
really appreciate that,

to see the whole history
of how this all started."

- I don't think it's
jumping the shark quite yet

'cause the idea of the space
is actually pretty good.

- The sequels
onward, they're kind

of a mixed bag of
interesting ideas.

You had Scott
Derrickson direct one

and Scott's doing
great movies now

and then he tried
to make his sequel

a little bit more
esoteric and Faustian

and I thought that
was really cool.

- What are you?

- What I am, who I am,
is no concern of yours.

- When you get to
the other sequels,

the ones that went
straight-to-video,

it was really a matter of
Dimension taking scripts

that they had in development
and saying, "Well,

we'll put Pinhead in here

and make this a
'Hellraiser' sequel"

to varying levels of success.

- They're trying to split the
difference basically between

that sort of horror
icon/horror hero expectation

and what the series
actually was,

which is nothing like that.

But, he's just too cool
looking of a character.

You can't background
him for too long.

You got to use him.

- I cannot die.

I am forever.

- What you start seeing is
companies have to make a film,

in this case every year,
to not lose the rights.

As soon as you do something
like you take a script

that wasn't written as
a "Hellraiser" movie,

there's no way you're
going to be able to keep

that continuity
of that character.

It's going to start
falling apart.

- Here we go.

- You opened it,
summoned us, and we came.

- The one everybody
hates the most,

and probably rightfully so,

the first one that
was not Doug Bradley.

The movie itself kind of
tapped into the same kind

of themes that
the originals had.

But, it was made in
a week or something

to hold onto the rights.

If they had done
that legitimately,

I think people would really
have responded to it.

But, unfortunately
the way it was made,

you can't really
defend it, you know?

- That was the point
where you really felt

the series was kind
of running on fumes is

when they couldn't even
get Pinhead's proper actor

back into the part.

It just kind of seemed
like desperation.

- "Hellraiser" has
the similar problem

of "A Nightmare on Elm Street."

The series kind of
pivots and takes a turn.

I do think you need the
sequels to become iconic

and the sequels are
important to the iconography

of these characters
and these worlds.

But, when you don't deliver
and when you're a sequel

that maybe doesn't live
up to expectations,

it can really feel like a
betrayal to the fan base.

- It's frustrating to me,
uniquely this franchise,

because I love that
first film so much.

It's one of my favorite horror
movies and it's just one

of my least favorite
franchises to revisit.

I don't go back to
the sequels often

because there's no vision.

There's no cohesion.

- They were not particularly
made with the love

and tender care that we
lavished on the first two.

- There's no
question about that.

It's just how you handle
it and you are always as a,

and certainly for
me as an actor,

because Clive was having
less to do with the franchise

as it developed, I was at
the mercy of executives

who can't always be relied upon
to make the right decisions.

Can I leave it
diplomatically there?

- That doesn't mean
that those movies

aren't delicious in their way.

I love the idea of
Pinhead in space.

- The Garden of Eden,

a garden of flesh.

- Pinhead in a neo-noir movie.

- Your flesh is
killing your spirit.

- No!

- Pinhead on the internet.

- The box,
you opened it. We came.

- But, is that the
Pinhead that Uncle Frank

initially called out of the box?

I don't think so.

But, what is a film
franchise if not something

that we go on a journey?

- Unfortunately,
of all the films,

that's the character
who's had the hardest go

of creative continuity and,

once you go to space,
it is hard to come back.

- I cannot die!

- There, at this point in time,

have been several other
versions of Pinhead.

But, we, as fans, keep
returning to Doug Bradley

and keep saying,
"That's the best one.

That is the performance
that made Pinhead iconic."

Much like we will always
look at Bela Lugosi

and say, "That's Dracula."

That is what Doug
Bradley did to Pinhead.

- I have to have a
sense of humor about it.

It's a movie. This is
a fictional character.

- I have nothing to fear

- I know Doug Bradley
is the original Pinhead

and I respect that completely.

It's a movie role.
I got the part.

I played the part and I'm
thrilled that I got to do it.

It's the coolest thing
that's ever happened to me.

That's all I can really say.

Playing this character,
it was the coolest thing

that's ever happened to me!

- It's unfair to say that no
one else can play Pinhead.

There are plenty of
great movie characters

that have been played
by different people.

But, Doug Bradley is Pinhead.

Whether we want that
to be true or not,

whether he's replaced again
in a reboot or something,

he's always going to be that
character for most people

because the way he talked,
the way he held himself,

the imagery that he evoked
in that role is iconic.

- Kirsty, we meet again.

- How did you find me?

- You opened a door
long ago and it will not

be closed until I
get what I came for.

- My soul.

- It's been a journey
watching how the image

of Pinhead has taken
on a life of its own.

There are people who've
never seen "Hellraiser"

who know Pinhead
and know that image.

Even by the end of the eighties,

Screamin' already had
a big Pinhead doll out.

Congratulations, you
have just purchased

Clive Barker's Pinhead Cenobite.

This museum quality
reproduction is designed

for the serious
collector of the bizarre.

Please follow the assembly
instructions carefully.

- I think that Pinhead
stuck in the minds

of the pop culture
for a couple reasons.

The first of which, of course,

is that amazing
character design.

the crown of painful pins.

Insert these in areas indicated.

- Not just the pins in the head,

but sort of the flayed chest,

this BDSM sort of appearance

that you never see
in mainstream cinema.

all vestments black,

including cassock,
rope, and .

Open wounds, bloody
crimson, torture tools,

paint and hang as designed.

Your model is now complete.

- If you rented "Hellraiser"
in the eighties,

at the end of the credits,

there was a
"Hellraiser" commercial

for "Hellraiser" merchandise.

chained to the screen

'cause here's what
we have for you.

Get hooked on a
"Hellraiser" T-shirt,

"Hellraiser" baseball caps,

one size fits all,
even Pinheads.

- It was like, "If you want
to raise hell at the library,

get this 'Hellraiser' tote bag."

That's really what's staying

with me is the
"Hellraiser" commercial.

- Did they ever make a
"Hellraiser" pincushion?

- I have a Pinhead Yoda at home.

I have a Pinhead
Winnie the Pooh.

Pinhead My Little Ponies
seem to be popular.

Pinhead babies are very popular.

- I got really into
the comic books.

Epic did this amazing line
of "Hellraiser" comics

in the 1990s and they
kind of did everything

that I wanted the movies to do,

where they focused on
different Cenobites

and different stories and took
the Hellraiser mythos to all

of these different locations
and they became a huge part

of my adolescent teen years.

- I think it was the
fifties and sixties

when the Universal classic
monsters became cartoons

and comic books and action
figures and model kits.

We've reached that
saturation point with all

of the eighties and
nineties characters now.

They've become our pals!

on "Big Brother,"

a practical joke war
resulted in hurt feelings.

Who will be evicted?
Find out live tonight!

- I think that characters
go from being nightmare fuel

to being comfort food
because horror movies,

ultimately, are a distillation

of cultural and societal fears.

What's going on in the
moment usually is embodied

in horror cinema and so things

that scared us became
the things that we loved.

- Suppose you got a
handful of thumbtacks

and you accidentally
roll over them like so.

Now the fire is out,

but you look like "Hellraiser!"

- I think embracing that is
just part of the cycle of horror

because that's part of the
fabric of our pop culture.

- We are going to raise
more hell than Hellraiser!

- Hey honey, you want
some salt for your steak?

- Yeah, sure.

- Got ya! That's
more salt than you wanted.

- There's a seduction
to that character,

even when you're looking at him,

'cause he's wearing
sort of leather S&M gear

and that is really
seductive and attractive

to a certain kind of person.

- Number three, "Hellraiser."

- Take those nails out
and you've got a hottie.

- And I think
that's part of why,

when you look at the character,

you say, "I'm
interested in that guy.

I want to know more
about that person.

I want him on a t-shirt."

- The great thing about a
character like that is it,

I feel, it's hardly
been explored.

He's been in a lot of movies,

but has hardly
really been explored.

I'd be excited for
them to find a way

to return to that character.

But, again, it might, at this
point, need a radical change.

- I think if you
look at the story

of the original "Hellraiser,"

it is astounding
what they pulled off

for something like
a million dollars,

both in terms of design and
scope and idea and concept.

I mean, they took us
in a direction that
we're still trying

to wrap our heads
around 35 years later.

It's so rare that
someone can actually

show you something new,
can give you an impression

of something, a
vision of a world,

of a corner of the human psyche

that you haven't
quite accessed yet.

I think that's something
the original movie did

and that the imagery
continued to work

with across the films and you
see it inspiring other movies.

You see countless other
tropes throughout horror

and science fiction
that are echoes

of what was originally done in

that very contained,
million-dollar production.

- Why does that
look so familiar?

- People want more
from this world.

I want more from this world.

I want to go deeper inside
the puzzle of the box

and see where it may take us.

So, I think there's a
hunger and there's an energy

to experiment with that
and there's always a risk

that it won't live up
to the original and,

I think, particularly
in this case, it can't.

It never will.

But, hopefully, as
creators and artists,

we can find an inspiration

in what people have done
before us and we'll come up

with something that's a
worthy journey to go on.

- Let us take one
final journey together.

Let me help you remember
once and for all.

- In terms of imagination,
it might be one

of most unparalleled creative
imaginations in horror cinema.

I wish there were more
Clive Barker-directed movies

because he's so wonderful
with monsters and characters

because he didn't
view them as other.

He viewed them as same.

- Again, it's that point

at which Clive imagines
this character.

He writes it. It gets
physically created.

The costume is made.
The makeup is made.

They're put on me. I stand up.

I speak the words.
It goes on film.

It goes out there and
that then leaves us

and it goes into other
people's imaginations

and into their heads
and into their lives.

- I think in a way
the movies belong

to different people now.

Maybe, arguably, they
still belong to Doug

who has been the constant
through all these movies

and is, after all,

the icon at the heart of
the "Hellraiser" movies

and they belong to the fans

and I think that's
very important, too.

They belong to people
who love those movies,

perhaps more than I do.

- Pain has a face.

Allow me to show it to you.

- I'm often asked
whether I was aware

when we were making "Hellraiser"

of how big this was going to be

and the answer is,
emphatically, "No."

- I am pain!

- I've been living with
the legacy of saying yes

to playing the character who
then didn't even have a name.

I don't think about
him all the time.

But, he's present in my
life on a daily basis.

I look at it this way.

If this movie and this role
has made that much of an impact

that, nearly 35 years later,

people are still interested
that people still want to come

and ask me how long it
took to put the makeup on,

I think I should
be pleased by that.

- None of this is
real. You're not real

- Oh, but,
I'm afraid I am.

- It's an honor. It's humbling.

Are there times when I
wish it would go away

and leave me alone?

Oh, you betcha! But, by and
large, it's a good place to be.

- Pleasure was
pain there, and vice versa.

And he knew it well
enough to call it home.

- The costume and the
flesh are interwoven.

You see that on Pinhead's
costume where the flaps

of flesh come over the the
costume and they're held

in place with hooks.

So, he talks about-

- Hold that
thought one second.

They're over there fighting.

Sean, you can go kick
those gesse's ass.

- Fucking geese.
- On it.

- No actual
animal cruelty, but, you know?

- No geese were harmed in
the making of this interview.

- I'd like them to go.
- You want those geese-

- Chase them
away. See what happens.

Don't get attacked.

- Don't make an
awful lot of noise.

- Keep goin'.

Get 'em to stop.
- I can still here them!

- He's scared of them.

You have to run towards
them not away from them!

- Throw something.

- Yeah!

- There we go.

- All right.
- They'll turn around

and come right back again.