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In the whole history
of the world,
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00:04:48,115 --> 00:04:52,740
I think there have only been two
great women directors --
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00:04:52,844 --> 00:04:56,088
Leni Riefenstahl
and Lina Wertmueller.
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00:04:56,192 --> 00:05:00,679
Nobody else registers
as high as those two.
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They may have their weaknesses,
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00:05:02,819 --> 00:05:04,959
but they certainly have
their strengths.
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00:42:19,433 --> 00:42:21,884
But in the context
of Italian cinema,
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what made her unique was --
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really, I think what made her
unique was her particular,
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special angle on the
commedia dell'arte tradition.
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00:42:34,206 --> 00:42:39,798
Her pictures were funny and
frighteningly harrowing
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00:42:39,902 --> 00:42:43,388
and big and emotional,
over-the-top, and popular.
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00:42:43,491 --> 00:42:45,148
And within that register,
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she was able to do things
that nobody else was doing.
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00:43:42,723 --> 00:43:44,483
Always a carnival,
always entertaining,
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00:43:44,587 --> 00:43:46,831
always in constant motion,
lot of energy.
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00:43:46,934 --> 00:43:50,248
And there wasn't anybody else
working that way at that time.
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00:56:45,609 --> 00:56:47,300
On the yacht, she is in --
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she is on top
and he is a mere servant.
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00:56:50,199 --> 00:56:54,100
On the island, he becomes the
boss and she becomes the slave,
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00:56:54,203 --> 00:56:55,722
and not only the slave,
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00:56:55,826 --> 00:56:58,484
but the slave who
has to {\an8}love her master.
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00:56:58,587 --> 00:57:00,762
"Swept Away" -- popular
for many reasons.
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00:57:00,865 --> 00:57:04,317
First and foremost, of course,
it's sexy. It's very sexy.
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00:57:04,421 --> 00:57:06,423
I mean, it was Giannini
and Melato. They're --
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00:57:06,526 --> 00:57:09,046
Either they're naked or almost
naked most of the picture.
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00:57:09,149 --> 00:57:11,738
They're having sex all the time,
fighting, making up.
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00:57:11,842 --> 00:57:13,568
All on a deserted island.
I mean...
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00:57:50,432 --> 00:57:54,125
Lina was very much interested in
what one would call gender --
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00:57:54,229 --> 00:57:56,265
gender politics --
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00:57:56,369 --> 00:58:00,131
the politics of
man-woman relationships.
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00:58:00,235 --> 00:58:03,963
And that, she took,
perhaps, as a symbol for
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00:58:04,066 --> 00:58:06,828
a larger political situation
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00:58:06,931 --> 00:58:09,693
between the upper classes
and the lower classes.
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00:58:09,796 --> 00:58:11,833
Battle-of-the-sexes movie
where, you know,
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00:58:11,936 --> 00:58:14,629
the personal and the political
are all tied in together,
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00:58:14,732 --> 00:58:16,527
so it became one of
those really --
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00:58:16,631 --> 00:58:18,978
It was one of those pictures
you had to see
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00:58:19,081 --> 00:58:20,773
because it was
a provocative, cultural
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00:58:20,876 --> 00:58:22,809
conversation piece
everywhere you went.
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00:58:22,913 --> 00:58:25,432
Because Lina is who she is,
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00:58:25,536 --> 00:58:31,438
it is never cold or schematic
or -- or theoretical.
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00:58:31,542 --> 00:58:33,130
It's always alive.
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00:58:33,233 --> 00:58:36,754
It's always practice
rather than theory.
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00:58:36,858 --> 00:58:40,931
It's always humanity
rather than mere philosophy.
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00:58:41,034 --> 00:58:43,485
This was the period, also,
of "Last Tango in Paris,"
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00:58:43,589 --> 00:58:45,556
"A Clockwork Orange,"
"Straw Dogs."
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00:58:45,660 --> 00:58:46,971
These are movies you had to see
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00:58:47,075 --> 00:58:48,766
because they were
constantly being discussed.
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00:58:48,870 --> 00:58:51,597
And it's also very, very funny.
That's another big factor.
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00:58:51,700 --> 00:58:54,461
And it has a great romantic
surge at the end, of course.
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01:04:50,058 --> 01:04:53,510
I saw "Settebellezze."
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01:04:53,613 --> 01:04:57,134
And I was blown away by it.
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01:04:57,238 --> 01:05:00,413
And I told my editors at
"New York Magazine"
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01:05:00,517 --> 01:05:02,588
how wonderful it was,
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01:05:02,691 --> 01:05:04,590
which they almost
couldn't believe,
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01:05:04,693 --> 01:05:06,523
but then they went to see it,
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01:05:06,626 --> 01:05:08,974
and they said,
"Yes, you were right."
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01:05:56,262 --> 01:06:00,232
And I wrote an article,
which was published
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01:06:00,335 --> 01:06:05,030
in "New York Magazine" --
a big article with pictures.
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01:06:05,133 --> 01:06:08,102
And then the Italian press
started making fun
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01:06:08,205 --> 01:06:11,070
of Lina and me.
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01:06:11,174 --> 01:06:16,006
"Santa Lina," they were saying
with irony, "di New York.
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01:06:16,110 --> 01:06:17,697
Santa Lina di New York."
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01:07:01,707 --> 01:07:06,091
She always said she wanted
man in disorder.
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01:07:06,194 --> 01:07:10,992
But disorder to her was
the opposite of
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01:07:11,096 --> 01:07:15,376
the Nazis, for example,
or Mussolini.
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01:07:15,479 --> 01:07:20,277
It was man allowed
to make mistakes
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01:07:20,381 --> 01:07:24,419
and making them but also
learning from them.
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01:07:24,523 --> 01:07:28,458
And that was the notion
of anarchy she had,
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01:07:28,561 --> 01:07:32,876
which wasn't going around
and killing people, necessarily.
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01:07:32,979 --> 01:07:37,398
It was allowing people to be
their disorderly selves
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01:07:37,501 --> 01:07:42,955
and somehow fighting their way
to some kind of --
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01:07:43,059 --> 01:07:47,684
some kind of order that really
wasn't sort of fascist
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01:07:47,787 --> 01:07:50,963
or totalitarian or communist.
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01:08:53,853 --> 01:08:59,273
She knew how to make a monologue
as exciting as dialogue
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01:08:59,376 --> 01:09:03,484
by "A" -- having good lighting,
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01:09:03,587 --> 01:09:08,592
two -- having good
camera placement and movement,
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01:09:08,696 --> 01:09:14,011
and somehow, the enthusiasm
she had for making films
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01:09:14,115 --> 01:09:17,429
that she generated and
could pass on to an actor.
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01:11:28,422 --> 01:11:32,598
I was thrown off by the pictures
because of the style of
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01:11:32,702 --> 01:11:36,982
composition and editing --
for me, was very --
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01:11:37,085 --> 01:11:38,535
at first, it was kind of disturbing,
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01:11:38,639 --> 01:11:40,157
at first --
first couple of years --
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01:11:40,261 --> 01:11:41,918
first couple of years or so
of these films.
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01:11:42,021 --> 01:11:44,369
It took me a little while to
settle into it and to understand
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01:11:44,472 --> 01:11:47,130
the visual language
that she was creating.
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01:11:47,233 --> 01:11:49,753
Nobody else was doing that
at that time.
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01:11:49,857 --> 01:11:53,067
It was very different from
Fellini or from Antonioni
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01:11:53,170 --> 01:11:56,760
or from Leone, you know, so --
or Bertolucci -- any of this.
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01:11:56,864 --> 01:12:00,626
So this was a very special
artistic vision.
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01:12:39,078 --> 01:12:42,634
She knew exactly how
the camera should move
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01:12:42,737 --> 01:12:45,430
and, when it didn't move,
how it should stand
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01:12:45,533 --> 01:12:47,535
or where it should stand.
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01:12:47,639 --> 01:12:50,124
And that's something
that you can't learn.
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01:12:50,227 --> 01:12:53,507
You have to have that in your
instincts, in your feelings.
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01:12:53,610 --> 01:12:55,647
In "The Lizards,"
her first film,
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01:12:55,750 --> 01:12:59,064
it was not nearly so good
as it became later.
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01:12:59,167 --> 01:13:02,792
But the great thing is
that the true artists learn.
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01:13:02,895 --> 01:13:04,897
Well, the films are
very beautiful --
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the lighting, framing.
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01:13:07,175 --> 01:13:10,075
You remember, primarily,
the beauty of the people,
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even the grotesque beauty --
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01:13:11,835 --> 01:13:14,976
the way the people move,
the gesture, the smiles, crying.
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01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:17,876
I remember "Seven Beauties" and
"Love and Anarchy" having a
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01:13:17,979 --> 01:13:20,465
particularly strong
visual beauty.
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01:13:20,568 --> 01:13:23,364
Of course, she was working with
great directors of photography
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01:13:23,468 --> 01:13:24,779
on those pictures --
Giuseppe Rotunno
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01:13:24,883 --> 01:13:27,610
and Tonino Delli Colli.
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01:13:27,713 --> 01:13:30,336
And she had her husband,
Enrico Job,
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01:13:30,440 --> 01:13:33,063
doing the production design
on "Seven Beauties."
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01:13:33,167 --> 01:13:35,963
But for me, it's the beauty
of the faces and the people.
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01:13:54,291 --> 01:13:56,052
You watch him debase himself,
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01:13:56,155 --> 01:13:58,468
just sink to, like,
the lowest order --
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01:13:58,572 --> 01:14:02,092
the lowest level
in order to save himself.
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01:14:02,196 --> 01:14:05,682
All about saving yourself in
a German concentration camp,
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01:14:05,786 --> 01:14:08,685
and it's funny
and you're laughing.
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01:14:08,789 --> 01:14:11,930
This was during a time when
everyone was trying to depict
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01:14:12,033 --> 01:14:15,381
Nazism and fascism in films, but
she went at it through humor.
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01:15:22,103 --> 01:15:23,760
I mean, those pictures,
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especially coming out
at that time all together --
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01:15:26,522 --> 01:15:28,454
they certainly had a great
effect in America
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01:15:28,558 --> 01:15:30,042
and are very popular.
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01:15:30,146 --> 01:15:31,837
One of them, in fact --
"The Seduction of Mimi" --
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01:15:31,941 --> 01:15:33,529
was actually remade as
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01:15:33,632 --> 01:15:36,532
a Richard Pryor comedy
called "Which Way Is Up?"
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01:15:36,635 --> 01:15:39,120
But I'm not sure if they had
the same kind of effect,
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01:15:39,224 --> 01:15:43,090
for instance,
as "81โ2" or "Blow-Up"
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01:15:43,193 --> 01:15:45,264
or certain Bergman pictures.
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01:15:45,368 --> 01:15:48,751
I mean, I think that ultimately,
the effect was more subtle.
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01:15:48,854 --> 01:15:51,339
It was more subconscious.
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01:15:51,443 --> 01:15:54,998
There was an undercurrent
in American cinema
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01:15:55,102 --> 01:15:57,587
that she had created, I think.
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01:16:30,586 --> 01:16:32,380
Giannini in particular was,
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01:16:32,484 --> 01:16:35,452
like, an instant movie star
in her pictures.
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01:16:35,556 --> 01:16:39,008
And Lina Wertmueller herself
was, like, an instant --
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01:16:39,111 --> 01:16:41,044
like, an instant sensation.
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01:16:41,148 --> 01:16:43,115
I mean, she just...
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01:16:43,219 --> 01:16:45,877
appeared or erupted
over here in American.
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01:18:39,887 --> 01:18:43,235
They showed the film to us --
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01:18:43,339 --> 01:18:45,410
to me and to
several other people --
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01:18:45,513 --> 01:18:48,413
her producer,
who was a nice man.
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01:18:48,516 --> 01:18:52,382
And I tried very politely
to suggest some problems
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01:18:52,486 --> 01:18:54,799
I had with the film.
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01:18:54,902 --> 01:18:57,871
And so Lina said,
"Well, what are you saying?"
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01:18:57,974 --> 01:19:01,253
And Giancarlo Giannini,
who was also there, said,
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01:19:01,357 --> 01:19:05,499
"He is saying that the film
is full of shit."
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01:19:05,602 --> 01:19:09,641
The wonderful thing is that
Lina was up early next morning
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01:19:09,745 --> 01:19:12,230
and re-editing the film.
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01:19:12,333 --> 01:19:14,888
But I also feel that
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01:19:14,991 --> 01:19:19,409
the possibility of re-editing
is greatly exaggerated.
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01:23:06,498 --> 01:23:09,915
And I felt that
she saw things in me
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01:23:10,019 --> 01:23:12,815
that other people maybe not --
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01:23:12,918 --> 01:23:15,128
did not see.
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01:24:11,080 --> 01:24:12,806
No.
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01:26:23,592 --> 01:26:26,077
Keitel: In Naples,
we had such a good time.
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01:26:26,181 --> 01:26:29,356
She took me around to people's
houses and we ate there,
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01:26:29,460 --> 01:26:33,912
and there was always music and
people singing, playing, and...
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01:26:34,016 --> 01:26:36,018
So we were in
the culture itself.
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01:26:36,121 --> 01:26:39,366
We were living right there
in its culture --
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01:26:39,470 --> 01:26:43,163
the culture we were
making the film in.
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01:26:43,267 --> 01:26:45,234
To watch Lina at work,
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01:26:45,338 --> 01:26:48,893
not only with the movie
but with the culture itself,
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01:26:48,996 --> 01:26:52,345
is a treat and was very helpful
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01:26:52,448 --> 01:26:56,107
in creating the right
environment for the movie.
168
01:26:56,211 --> 01:27:00,353
She knew everything about Naples
and the goings-on in Naples,
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01:27:00,456 --> 01:27:03,148
how to deal with people
in Naples.
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01:27:03,252 --> 01:27:05,565
You know, when they
tried to make noise
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01:27:05,668 --> 01:27:08,050
to interfere with
the sound of the movie
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01:27:08,153 --> 01:27:10,811
when we were shooting on
the street somewhere,
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01:27:10,915 --> 01:27:12,813
she knew how to deal with
the situation.
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01:27:44,949 --> 01:27:46,502
Oh!
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01:27:56,409 --> 01:27:57,651
I've been very lucky
to work with
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01:27:57,755 --> 01:28:00,861
the people I've
worked with, and...
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01:28:00,965 --> 01:28:03,105
and there's a common denominator
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01:28:03,208 --> 01:28:05,107
amongst these
wonderful directors.
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01:28:05,210 --> 01:28:07,351
There's a common humanity
that they share.
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01:28:07,454 --> 01:28:09,560
Their styles might be different.
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01:28:09,663 --> 01:28:12,597
Their experiences
certainly are different.
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01:28:12,701 --> 01:28:17,015
But on another level, it was a
commonality amongst them all.
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01:28:17,119 --> 01:28:21,192
So Lina was one of those
special --
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01:28:21,296 --> 01:28:25,092
very special directors I had
the privilege to work with.
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01:29:42,549 --> 01:29:44,379
Aah!
Oh!
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01:34:04,259 --> 01:34:06,295
Hauer: When Lina came
with the script,
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01:34:06,399 --> 01:34:09,747
it was basically --
it was sort of a di--
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01:34:09,851 --> 01:34:12,163
it was a discussion
about AIDS, you know.
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01:34:12,267 --> 01:34:14,269
It wasn't really a film.
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01:34:14,372 --> 01:34:16,581
Basically,
because it was in English
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01:34:16,685 --> 01:34:19,757
and Lina is a poet,
first of all -- she's --
192
01:34:19,861 --> 01:34:22,415
and she's Italian
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01:34:22,518 --> 01:34:25,625
and Italians tend to use
more words than needed,
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01:34:25,729 --> 01:34:31,044
I think, you know,
my biggest battle was with
195
01:34:31,148 --> 01:34:36,049
the massive, massive dialogue
that was just too much,
196
01:34:36,153 --> 01:34:39,604
you know, so I helped her,
you know, make it --
197
01:34:39,708 --> 01:34:44,402
trim it and then hoped
that we had, you know,
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01:34:44,506 --> 01:34:47,820
a film that -- that was watchable.
199
01:39:52,434 --> 01:39:54,505
Keitel: The tragedy were
the numerous films
200
01:39:54,609 --> 01:39:56,335
that people did not
give her to make.
201
01:39:56,438 --> 01:39:58,889
And others like her, by the way.
There are others like her.
202
01:39:58,993 --> 01:40:04,308
I think of Nick Roeg, as well,
and talents like that who --
203
01:40:04,412 --> 01:40:09,072
whom the financiers seem to lose
confidence in and lose faith in,
204
01:40:09,175 --> 01:40:13,317
and they go on to
younger people, if you will.
205
01:40:13,421 --> 01:40:15,423
And they forget about
the wisdom that these people
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01:40:15,526 --> 01:40:18,184
have brought to us
in the cinema.
207
01:41:35,710 --> 01:41:38,747
Simon: I must say, I'm not
familiar with her late films,
208
01:41:38,851 --> 01:41:41,750
which were never shown
in this country,
209
01:41:41,854 --> 01:41:47,273
and maybe one or two of them
I did see on -- on DVD
210
01:41:47,377 --> 01:41:50,828
and which frankly did not
interest me very much.
211
01:41:50,932 --> 01:41:53,762
But look, if you have made
four masterpieces,
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01:41:53,866 --> 01:41:57,766
which she certainly has,
you're allowed to retire
213
01:41:57,870 --> 01:42:03,082
in comfort and glory
and not add further triumphs.
16329
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