All language subtitles for Let.There.Be.Light.2017.WEBRip.x264-ION10

What I wanted to do first
is to give you an image

of what drives me
forward in fusion.

Imagine you're reaching up
and you're grabbing the sun,

something of the order of a
100 million degrees Celsius,

and you want to put
the sun in a bottle.

And we have ways of doing that.
We create a magnetic model.

Compared to anything that mankind
has ever done in the past,

be it walking on the moon,
be it decoding DNA,

this is a great challenge.

We, as humans, we're lazy.

In the sense that if we
have a choice of going

a very easy path or
very complicated path,

we would always
go the easy path.

And that's what we're
doing with energy.

We're burning fossil fuels,

coal, natural gas, crude oil,

and that is changing
the environment.

We're similar to, I hate
to say it, to yeast,

where the yeast basically
multiply, multiply, multiply,

eat up all of the
flour and the dough

until basically they die off
from their own excrement,

uh, because they've just eaten
up all their resources,

and they've died from their own
pollution that they've created.

We have to find a clean source

that's going to be
available for lifetimes,

and that's what fusion is.

I really feel that if we don't
crack fusion, we are doomed,

to be honest.

What we're trying to
do here is to make

a artificial star.

Stars have some things
we don't have on Earth,

size and mass.

The Sun, for example, is a
very nice fusion reactor

that enjoys considerable
public support,

and it works on the
basis of gravity

plus its magnetic field,
uh, to confine the plasma.

Now, the sun is really big,

800,000 miles, something
like, across.

Uh, we clearly don't
want anything that big,

so we have to rely on the
magnetic fields alone.

That turns out to be doable,

but technologically difficult
to do on a large scale.

And so we've been
learning how to do this

for about 40 or 50 years.

What's amazing about work in
that era is we didn't know

what the energy process
that drove stars was.

Hans Bethe, the
nuclear physicist,

uh, was at a seminar,

and the next day he
was gonna give a talk

where he talked about a fusion
fuel cycle for the stars.

But he had a date that night, and
so they went out for a walk.

And he came out with what has
to be the best line ever,

which is, "Aren't the
starts beautiful tonight?

And right now, I'm the only guy
in the world who knows why."

In the sun's core,

when these particles are
accelerated to high speeds

and collide...

they fuse.

Fusion fuel is in,
essentially, infinite supply

and is available to all
countries at negligible cost.

The fuel, or fusion...
is in common water.

Fusion will produce no noxious
chemical combustion products,

and there will be absolutely no
chance of a runaway reaction.

And fusion will not
involve materials

that could be stolen or used
for clandestine purposes.

When I came into this project
almost 20 years ago,

there was a tremendous
amount of enthusiasm.

Everyone was confident
of success.

In the Zeta apparatus,

we have produced temperatures

which are about
one-third of those

at the center of the sun.

But this enthusiasm

was a kind of
ignorant enthusiasm.

As fusion researchers have
painfully discovered,

it's just not that simple.

After this initial enthusiasm,

then came a decade of
caution and skepticism.

And now, after 20 years,
we're back to enthusiasm.

In the early 1980s,
we expect to create

many thermal megawatts

of fusion energy for
the first time.

So the whole planet
needs a lot of energy.

And so far, we've been running
mostly on fossil fuels.

Been a good run.

It got us to where we
are, but we have to stop.

So we are trying different
types of energy now,

alternative energy.

But it proved quite
difficult to find something

that's as convenient
and as cost-effective

as oil, gas, and coal.

Now, we know of two way of
making, er, nuclear energy:

Fission and fusion.

Now, in fission, you
take a big nucleus,

you break it in part, in two,
and it makes lots of energy.

This is how the nuclear
reactor today works.

Works pretty good.

And then there is fusion.

Now, I like fusion.
Fusion's much better.

So you take two small
nucleus, you put it together,

and you make helium.

And that's very nice.
Makes lots of energy.

And if the whole planet would
run on fusion, it would run...

We could extract the
fuel from the ocean,

it would run for billions
and billions of years.

Now, if fusion is so great,
why don't we have it.

Where is it?

Well, there's always
a bit of a catch.

Fusion is really,
really hard to do.

Physics-wise, fusion is
the, the fusion, ha-ha,

of two nucleus.

Usually, you use a
hydrogen nucleus

or isotope of hydrogen.

And when they touch each
other, they fuse together,

and they make helium

and release a lot of energy in
the form of a fast neutron.

So this is the, the nuclear
reaction in the center.

Now the problem is
those two nucleus,

they're electrically charged,
they're both positive,

so they don't want
to stick together.

They go like this, whoo, shoo,

and they never fuse.

So in order to fuse, you have
to throw them at great speed.

And speed in a gas
is the temperature.

So you have to heat the gas
so the thermal agitation

is fast enough so the nucleus
can touch each other.

And that temperature is a
150 million degrees C.

That's pretty hot. And this
is how the stars work.

The-The stars are very hot

and inside the star, there
is this fusion reaction.

So on the Earth here,
we need to heat the gas

to 150 million degrees C.

And the other problem is a gas
that hot wants to cool down.

So it cools down really quickly.

So you put some energy
in there to heat it up,

and then the heat escape.

And when it's hot enough,
it makes some reaction,

it makes some fusion,
it makes some energy.

So the name of the
game is to try to get

more energy out than you put in.

The world's most
ambitious attempt

to harvest fusion as
a source of power

is taking shape in France.

The project is costing
13 billion pounds

and it's being backed by a
whole swathe of countries

around the world.

ITER's going to be built
from about a million pieces,

so it's a real nightmare

to know where pieces are
and don't lose them,

know which piece goes where,

wh-what is this piece
that I'm looking at.

We build the tokamak
from the bottom up,

so you can only build
it in a certain way.

So if a certain
piece is missing,

we'll have to wait for it.

So it's key... At the
moment, what we're doing

is a very large planning
effort with all the members

to make sure that each
piece is delivered to us

in good time and
at the right time.

The parties all want to
learn all the technologies,

which means you not giving
one component to a party,

you're giving a piece of a
component, and the other party

wants another piece
of the same component

so that they all can
learn the technology.

It is luckily not so that
we have seven pieces

- of each component that it
will be too difficult...

but we have sometimes
three or four pieces

of each component,
and that means...

We have to talk to our
partners, to the members,

in all the... as you say,

in all these countries
around the world,

in Korea, in Japan, in
Russia, China, US, India.

You have not one
guy to deal with.

You have three or four
guys to deal with

for the same component.

We are pushing the
edge of technology

and therefore, sometimes
we run into problems

and we have to solve
these problems.

Critics point out that the costs
have trebled in five years.

They say the whole
project is a gamble

that won't pay off.

Will we be able, with
our complex structure,

and the money we
have, to be in time?

This is actually the most, uh,
difficult thing at the moment,

to stay in time.

What's slowly taking shape here

in the southern
French countryside

could provide the answer to
the world's energy crisis,

or it might prove one of the
most expensive failures

in scientific history.

So I'm gonna try to
go through quickly.

I wanna give you an idea
of the realistic schedule.

I received an email this morning
of a new first plasma date,

which is different from
the first plasma date

that you will see, uh,

or which was the first plasma
date of about two weeks ago,

which is different
from what you'll see.

So there's three iterations
behind the first plasma date.

When ITER organization
came about in 2006,

we said that we would be
producing the first plasma

in 10 years.

And if you guys do the
math real quickly,

you realize that we're not ready
for first plasma next year.

Not sure where I'm
gonna put this guy.

It's a toad.

- Where was that?
- He was inside the compost.

So he digs underneath...
in the compost pile

to stay warm.

My problem is that I turn
the compost all the time,

so I don't want him
to go in there again.

I'm gonna put him
underneath here.

Back when I started in fusion,

back in the 19... mid-1980s,

the idea was that fusion
was gonna be successful,

and we would have
fusion on the grid

in about 50 years.

And now, it's, uh,
35 years into my...

30 years into my career now.

Up until about 2000,
the year 2000,

we were just advancing
and advancing

at really a fast rate.

And now, the problem
is is that, uh,

in order to make the next step,

we just need to go
to a bigger machine

and unfortunately,
bigger machines

take longer to build,
are much more complex.

I know that I will be retiring
before ITER's successful,

so I'm like the guy
building a cathedral,

who have... knows that he's
gonna be putting this brick on,

this brick on, and
this brick on,

and he's gonna be
spending his whole career

putting bricks together,

but he'll never see the
end piece, the cathedral,

that will take hundreds
of years to build.

My name is Evgeny Velikov,

and now my main position
is honorary something.

Are you optimistic,
Mister President.

I'm always optimistic.

I was gonna ask, do you want me to
explain the gyrotron real quick?

Yeah, I can do it very
quickly and really cool.

If you take... I don't
have a Coke bottle...

If you take a Coke bottle
and you blow across

the top of the Coke bottle...

Do you mind... Can you get
me a Coke bottle downstairs?

It's down over there.

I have four minutes, no? How much?
Yes, four minutes.

Four minutes? Is that okay?
It's downstairs.

-Do you know where the
coffee machine is? -Yes.

The gyrotron works pretty
much like a Coke bottle.

Except instead of blowing across
the top of the Coke bottle

and changing the resonance,

uh, it-it... you-you
do a electron beam.

You have basically a little...

filament down here,
like in a light bulb.

It heats up,

and this beam of
electrons comes up,

and you get a resonance.

So just as you take your Coke bottle,
you blow across the top of it,

and the wind is creating
a compression wave

and making a resonance, making
the sound go up higher,

this thing is passing
an electron beam,

and it creates an
electromagnetic resonance.

You can almost imagine it like
a bunch of little laser beams,

that you combine them into
a single coherent beam,

which is the gyrotron beam.

And then once this
ignites the plasma,

the plasma itself heats
it and keeps going.

That makes sense, kind of.

Oh, no, doesn't it have to
be a glass one? Oh, man!

- Well...
- We lose the analogy.

What do you do with the can?

- No, not a can.
- A bottle, a bottle.

Oh, you wanted a bottle?

Yeah, because you can blow
across the top of the bottle

to make it resonate.

And you call yourself
a physicist.

The greatest challenge is
to align these huge pieces

to the millimeter tolerance,
to the accuracy that we need.

It's really the magnets,

the-the... what we call the
toroidal field magnets.

These magnets make the main
magnetic field of ITER.

They're the things that
hold this magnetic bottle,

hold the plasma
inside the machine,

and keep it away from the walls.

And the accuracy that we
can install these magnets

really is how smooth
the plasma will be

and therefore how
well it performs.

So the better we do
and the closer we get

to the required position
for these magnets

will really affect, for decades,

the future performance of ITER.

So that's a great
challenge for us.

Well, you need some area,
of course, to absorb...

- Yeah, yeah.
- The excess material.

For sure.

You cannot avoid that.

I'm curing them. I'm
curing with my hand.

Ahhh!

It is not a work for
emotionally weak people,

because you need to be
very strong and confident

because otherwise... you
will never do anything.

You'll just be so scared.

Although ITER is called

the largest scientific
enterprise,

international collaboration
on Earth at the moment,

nobody knows about us.

ITER is, um...

is working with public money,

so the whole project
is jointly funded

by all these nations
under the ITER roof,

and so, in fact
it's the taxpayer

who pays for what we do, right?

So this is not a
private organization

or a private enterprise.

This is one of our
top benchmarks,

that we develop this project

and this fusion reactor for
the benefit of everything.

And we want everybody
to share and to join in

and to be proud of this, right?

So transparency and having
an open-door policy

is one of our top priorities
in ITER communications.

A lot of people talk
about a magnetic model,

and I don't feel there's
a good understanding

of how the magnetic field ties

-with this idea of trapping a particle.
-Mm-hmm.

And then I want to go into
the challenge of ITER.

The question is, well, how
come we're taking a long time?

They made a study back in 1976

that showed that depending
upon how you fund fusion,

you can either get
a fusion device

generating electricity
somewhere in the 1990s

out to 2006 all depending upon
how much money you put in

as a functional time.

And then I'm going
to overlay this

as what the US has
actually been funding.

And the funding has gone up.

It peaked around 1978

and then has dropped well below,
based on today's dollars.

It's very understandable,
very honest,

but I won't do this because we
have the US here on Monday,

uh, physically, and...

it's a very touchy
thing in the US.

Because here you're picking
out the US from the...

We have to be careful we don't,

in official presentation,
want to criticize, right?

We can say it's difficult.
Right?

Because, um, in the 70s,
the funding was wow.

Everybody wanted
fusion to happen now.

-Then everything dropped again.
Right? -Poof! Yeah.

We survived. We managed to
survive, and we're here now

building the world's
largest fusion device.

But it's hard, and
it only happens,

and we say we can deliver, uh,

around the mid of the century...

provided that we have
somebody sort of...

-Funding us in the back.
- funding us in the back. Right?

And so to me, before
we basically die

in our excrement like
yeast molecules,

we need to realize that we
need another energy source.

We need to be... It may not
be for our generation.

I mean, the good news
is we're, we're okay.

But it's the next generation
or the generation after that

or the generation after that.

Yeah, I'm actually surprised
how low the funding is.

Would you be able to have, er...

better progress, faster progress
if you had better funding?

I think so. There was a study
made in one country...

I'm not gonna name
the country...

Back in the 70s.

And they said if you keep
the level of the order

of, let's say, I
think it was about

800 million euros per year,

you would be able to achieve
an ITER-like machine,

uh, within about 20 years.

Then if you drop it down
to about 500 million,

it would be extended
out to about 30 years.

And there is a point
of no return,

where basically if you
invested 300 million euros

on a year-to-year basis,

you would actually...
It would take infinity

to achieve a reactor.

Because there you had to keep
the supporting technology base,

the administrative funds.

If you go below 300 million,
you'll never get fusion.

Well...

that country has never invested

more than something
like 200 million euros.

The more money you put into
it, the faster the return.

And-And we really have
been putting in peanuts.

I don't think there's a
broad public acceptance

of hydrogen fusion in the
United States at this stage.

Uh, people back in the
US still in general

don't understand the differences

between uranium fission,

which is the process that's been
used in nuclear power plants

for over 40 years now,

and hydrogen fusion,

uh, which is believe is the
process of the future.

You have to keep in mind a
couple of things, you know.

First, this is one of the grand
challenges of engineering.

And solving a grand
challenge on a fixed price

is, is a challenge
in and of itself.

Now, by the same token,

you have to be very cost and
schedule conscience... conscious,

because the sponsors of
this project have to,

you know, continue to
maintain their sponsorship

and believe strongly

that the cost is worth
the investment.

I actually got interested
in fusion as a child.

Uh, my mom, when I was eight,

got me what I think was
my first science book,

which was about the sun.

And I still remember
vividly this illustration

of this hundreds of millions
of miles long coal train

delivering all the coal
that equaled the energy

that the sun's fusion
created in a single second.

By the time I graduated,

I actually didn't intend
to go into fusion

because this was the high
point of the enthusiasm

about the tokamak device,

which is still the most
funded device in fusion.

And I thought, "Well, I
guess this is solved,"

and I got interested instead

in astrophysics
and other things.

But, um...

pretty soon it
became clear, nope,

it wasn't solved.

The first error that was made
by the government programs

back in the 1970s

was to put all their eggs
in the tokamak basket.

Now, 40 years later,

people would have to say,
objectively we do not know

which route will lead
to practical fusion,

and we certainly don't
know which route will lead

to the most economical fusion.

What you have to do is take
a crash program approach,

a broad-based approach

in which, if there are 20
good ideas out there...

And by good ideas,
I don't mean ideas

that I think will work.

I mean ideas that I
can't prove won't work.

This is an important vital
question for humanity:

What is an energy source that
can replace fossil fuels,

that can be safe,
clean, unlimited,

and more economical,

cheaper than anything
we have today?

I used to live on Bowen Island,

so the commute was great.

So I could get on my bike

and it was, like, a 10
minute bike to the garage.

The part will arrive, and I
would assemble all the parts,

and I will actually do all
the experiments myself.

There is only one guy here.
It's a one-guy show.

So that was actually quite fun.
I enjoyed that.

And then I would build
this machinery,

and then I will fire it up, and
then I would get bad result,

which is most of the
time you get that.

And then I will tweak it and
adjust with a little click

and some transfer somewhere.

And then I started to get some
neutron coming out of this thing.

So I was very excited
about my neutrons.

Then, eventually, I went out

and tried to raise more
money with that thing.

The company got bigger
and more successful,

but the fun went
downhill since then.

Now, after my PhD,
sadly, I did not manage

to find a job in fusion.

So I got a job at a local
company doing laser printer,

because I was kind
of good with lasers.

Turns out that what
I was trying to do

was trying to make printing so
cheap that we could cut the forest

and jam you with
junk mail, you know.

So that was not
very satisfactory.

And I was looking at the energy
situation on the planet,

and it was pretty bad.

I think we're going 100 miles
an hour towards a brick wall,

and nobody seems to be paying
much attention, you know.

And it was actually on my birthday,
the 40-years-old birthday,

and I decided I had a
terrible midlife crisis,

and I say, okay,
I-I-I will change.

I will not do this job
anymore, and I will do fusion.

In the center of the machine,
there's a big sphere

and in that sphere,
there is liquid metal.

Now the liquid metal is
pumped by some pumps

in those pipes over there,

and it's made up to swirl.

So the-the liquid is injected
near the edge like this,

and it swirls around.

And because it swirls around,
it appear in the center,

like a centrifugal force
keep the liquid out

and near the center... Up
near the center of the thing.

So we fire those 14 pistons
all at the same time,

and they're quite
well-synchronized.

It's gonna go clonk,
clonk, clonk!

And then the acoustic
waves squash the liquid,

and it collapse the
vortex over the plasma.

And the plasma, when you
compress it, will get hotter.

And hopefully we will hit
150 million degrees C,

which is the
temperature required

to make the nucleus to fuse.

It's piston, and it's rings.

It's, uh, it's metal and pipes.
It's plumbing.

Turning that into a power
plant will actually be

not that complicated.

I have, I have a saying
here at General Fusion

I told all my engineer, "If you
can't find it at Home Depot,

it doesn't go in the machine."

So the tokamak and the
laser fusion have

more chance of working
than what we do here,

because the physics of
compressing the plasma

with a magnetic field is new.

However, their chance of
turning out a power plant

that's cost effective is low,

because their machine
is so complicated.

I-I'm quite confident that
we can make this work,

and I'm a little concerned

that we might run out of money
before we make it work.

We have everywhere problems.

We have had problems
in the TF coils,

uh, and it was solved.

Uh, we-we could go
into the envelope

with the help of Japan,
Europe, and so on.

So, many things we could bring

into a reasonable
envelope of schedule,

but we cannot make miracles.

Time lost is lost.
I cannot recover.

It can only be
better from now on.

The problem that I
don't understand is

how are you gonna get
there 10 years from now?

'Cause we heard this morning

there's a problem with
the vacuum vessel,

tooling issues, all
kind of things.

I don't see what the plan is.

But I thought you have
a much better plan,

uh, when it comes to
the technologies,

engineering the solutions.

Whatever that is, I
mean, convince us

that I think we can get
there within 10 years.

This morning when
I asked the DG,

what was the failure of
this whole problem was,

and wasting 10 years,

he said he was a manager.

Right?

Is there any change?
Doing anything?

There's a lot depending
on ITER, right?

So the whole fusion research
going on all around the world,

whether it's in China,
in Europe, in the US,

they all depend on ITER.

So if ITER is closed down,

a lot of people will not
only lose their jobs,

but, um, fusion will be dead

forever or at least for
a very, very long time.

Nobody will ever bet on
fusion for a long time.

So this is our facility where...

You know, storage facility,
which is actually quite cheap.

The key thing is,

more money has to go
into fusion research.

It has to go for
many other devices,

obviously including our own.

We and our neighbors are
shielded against the neutrons

by three feet of concrete.

It's also shielded
by this copper mesh

that radio waves
can't get through.

Now, the main bang trigger
is basically a big switch.

When we're at full power,
all 12 will be hooked up.

These instruments are
actually our thermometer.

If you wonder how
can you measure

one or two billion
degrees, this is it.

Maybe there's some way you
could tape this so that

- it's out of the line of sight.
- Okay.

Even though we're a
very tiny group,

science is a
collaborative effort,

and we're collaborating through
the scientific literature

with people all
around the world.

- Hey!
- Oh, sorry.

You're on camera.

This is an important
member of the team.

This is Tom, who's
the landlord here.

Hey, guys.

People ask, "How can you succeed

with so few resources?"

You know, are you saying you're
a thousand times smarter?

No.

We're saying we've
got an easier route.

A plasma,

which is what most of the
universe consists of,

is electrically
conducting matter,

matter in which the
electrons are stripped away

from the atoms and can
freely move about.

What we today call
the "pinch effect"

forms instabilities
within the plasma,

basically pinching the plasma

into a lot of
filamentary structures.

The conventional attitude
towards the instabilities

is to suppress them.

As we put it, to make the plasma
sit still like a good dog.

The problem with that is
the plasma doesn't want

to sit still.

And trying to confine the
plasma for long enough

for the fusion reactions
to take place

becomes sort of like
confining a can of worms

without the can.

What we do is to imitate nature.

In nature, on a scale of...
solar flares,

quasars, entire galaxies,

these filaments organize and
structure the universe.

What's your trigger pressure?

It's 12.36.

So when the machine fires,

we get a ion beam

that goes down this drift tube.

Once the machine fires,

then it's the job of
all our instruments

to find out what
actually happened.

Everybody ready?

Power on. Charging.

So what we do in
the plasma focus

is we don't try and fight
these instabilities,

we try to use them to
compress the plasma

and to confine them.

Twenty...

thirty.

Set. Fire.

That means the device
can be much smaller.

The energy can be much
more concentrated,

and that makes the
device much cheaper.

Now, that was a free fire.

Didn't you hear that?

I just want to make sure
it's not self-firing.

There was a slight
ticking noise in there

I couldn't identify.

The scope still set?

They're dry.

Power on.

Charging.

Ten...

twenty...

thirty.

Set. Fire.

Nope.

We know of no reason why this
is physically impossible.

And more, no one has told us

a reason why they think this
is physically impossible.

And this project is a
very public project.

We've published in
peer-reviewed papers...

that are among the leading
journals in our field.

We've gotten a lot
of press coverage.

People have a lot of opportunity
to take potshots at us.

Some people say this
is a long shot,

this is way out.

Well, ultimately, they're just
expressing their feeling.

I do say that compared
with all the other...

private fusion efforts...

our results at present
are the best.

So, here-here... Tom just
became our latest shareholder.

Yeah.

Okay...

It's my pleasure to
welcome all of you.

I introduce myself.

I'm the director-general
of the ITER organization.

It is really my
honor and pleasure

to address you here
today in this role.

This little project as you know
is a very promising project,

which now gathers
seven large parties.

All of them as you know,

they're representing
over 85 percent

of the gross national
product in the world,

and all of them are
very keen to understand

how they will get their energy
supply in the long term.

All of you know that there
is renewable energies,

and we are very keen to see
these renewable energies

to move on, to progress.

But for the time
being, it is clear

that it will not be able

to fulfill the
expectations of the world.

Oh, sorry.

I will... I will say stop.

Hello?

Sorry.

We are always
interconnected, so...

As you know, renewable
energy is good for...

I think we all
have great respect

for what he's trying to do here,

what he has to do.

We are all standing behind
him, to help him to...

to get the big puzzle together.

It's different, right?

I mean, the first two
director-generals were Japanese

and certainly, um,

different cultures have
different approaches

to... to work with,

uh, different priorities,

and Mr. Bigot is a European.

So for us Europeans,
it's certainly easier,

right, to understand
what he wants.

But if it is possible
to demonstrate

and it will work for, okay,

thousand and thousand of euros,

I'm ready to wait for 20 years.

Is not my problem.

No, no, no, you know,
the sun is not obsolete

even after five
billion of years.

Well, I think there is something

inherently difficult
about fusion.

That it is, uh, an
attempt to harness

some of the most difficult-
to-harness forces in nature.

You have to get something

at tens or hundreds of
millions of degrees Kelvin

into a tight package, and
nature resists that.

So tha-that is inherently hard.

But on top of that, um...

there seem to be
political pressures

trying to blow apart
any large project.

That once you have to
gather many, many people

from different countries
to combine resources,

especially over
decades and decades,

the different political
wills, the different goals,

uh, all clash with each other

and eventually you wind
up with infighting,

with cost overruns,

and things begin to fall
apart after several years.

And this is what we saw
with ITER round one,

and the same thing seems
to be happening again,

uh, with round two.

I am often asked the question,

how do you maintain
a sense of urgency

on a project that takes
20 years or more?

Yeah? And so the answer
is that globally...

'Cause for this crowd,
the Apollo Project

is what they always
think about as the...

That if we think about
how short for most of us

20 years ago really seems and
all that has happened...

The Secretary of Energy
was asked specifically

to make a recommendation by
the second of May this year

on that topic, a
progress report on ITER,

and should the US stay
in or should they not.

Yeah, I think that
it's quite clear

that, uh, things are moving
in a positive direction,

but we were digging out of
a fairly significant hole,

and so progress was
really necessary.

It's up to the American
Congress to make the decision,

you know, if the
project will deliver.

Sub-Committee on Energy
will come to order.

And we wanna welcome you to
today's hearing entitled,

"An Overview of Fusion
Energy Science."

Is it ee-ter or eye-ter?

- Ee-ter.
- Ee-ter. Hmm. Okay.

Tokamak. I keep wanting
to say "Tomahawk,"

and I know that's...

that's not right.

With the complexity of a multi-national
collaboration like ITER,

this project has faced
more challenges than most.

Fortunately, today, we have
the opportunity to hear

from the director-general of
the ITER project directly,

Dr. Bernard... Is it Bee-go?

Uh, I do believe if we have
the proper management,

we will be able to
deliver on time.

We have spent how much money

over the last ten years,
the United States?

When the US signed
up for the project,

you know, the
representation was made

that this project
was ready to go

to an extent that,
in retrospect,

probably wasn't the case.

When you think about what we
spent on imported oil alone...

I just want to understand
the dimensions of the cliff

that we're playing near when we
talk about the US pulling out.

If you're gonna have to lay
odds on, on all the engineering

and all these things
coming together,

uh... what are your odds?

I do believe this project
could be so beneficial

to the world, that
it is really worth

to try and to demonstrate.

- And again...
- Let me mention this.

There are a lot of wonderful
things we can do in this world.

- I know.
- Wonderful things.

- And...
- Including ITER.

Yeah, um, okay. And ITER
may be one of them,

but what we do is we judge
each one based on the cost

and the chances of success.

Because, in theory, it's such
a beautiful and simple idea.

Yet, throughout,
people have found

as soon as they get
around the next corner,

there is yet another hurdle.

Um, and nature seems
to have this way

of throwing up, um,

blockade after blockade
after blockade that makes

scientists' optimism,
uh, look naive.

My favorite fusion conman,

uh, was Richter from Argentina.

He was a German or
Austrian expat...

We actually know very
little about him...

Who moved to Argentina

and managed to
convince Juan Peron

that he had figured out a method

of, uh, harnessing the sun

and called it thermotron.

And so they built this
secret lab on an island.

And this crazy expat
was running around

pouring gunpowder
in experiments,

blowing doors off his lab,

writing fusion on ticker
tapes everywhere,

convincing everyone for a
matter of months and years

that he has solved the
world's energy problems.

Until he was finally found out
as a fraud and wound up in jail.

One of the things that's
interesting about his story

is that the physicists

who first thought
about magnetic fusion

were inspired by his story.

They saw a front page
New York Times claim

about fusion energy
in Argentina,

and the scientists
here were thinking,

how could that be done?

My wife and I were planning
to leave for Aspen,

and my father, he said,

"Well, I understand the
Argentines have, uh,

have gotten ahead of you
in the fusion program."

He'd seen the New
York Times article

that a fellow named Richter
had released fusion

in a controlled
manner in Argentina,

and Peron made quite
a thing of it.

I read the New York
Times article.

Then we got on a
train down to Aspen.

It was during the intervals out
there, when we weren't skiing,

I was thinking about this.

How would one do it if
one were trying to?

I worked out some of
the general ideas

that I later developed
into the stellarator.

So Spitzer came up
with this cool device

called the stellarator.

Stellarators are a
complicated machine,

and they have worse
confinement in general.

But there's no such thing as
disruption in a stellarator.

And so stellarators
for the past decade

have just been more
and more complicated.

They look like squid fighting
each other at this point.

You can specify what magnetic
field configuration you want.

So then you give the computer
the job of iterating

through a bunch of
possible different coils

until it gets to the right
magnetic field configuration.

And you end up with
something weird, like this.

It's cool, right?

All right, any other questions
before we move on to the tokamak?

Okay, let's bust a move.

So W7-X is a really
cool experiment.

It's a stellarator which has

a lot of advantages
over a tokamak.

The biggest advantage is
that it can just run.

It just... You know,
for hours hopefully.

And once you can do that, you
can build a power plant.

Um, and so tokamaks right
now have a problem

where they just, they
can't run continuously,

but this experiment is
designed to show that

it can be done continuously

at parameters that are good
enough for fusion, so...

I came here, and I came to
know about stellarators

and somewhere along
the line, I switched

from believing in tokamaks
to more in stellarators,

and I thought, yeah,

maybe this is the future
of energy and fusion.

This project would not
have been possible

without the reunion of Germany.

It is co-financed by
Europe to a big extent.

But still the project
team is in our hands.

We had to take care that
we have young people

being able to do physics
now with the new machine

and really to make this a team.

Wendelstein is a highly
optimized stellerator device,

three-dimensional design.

It goes back about 20 years.

And, um, to build this, to get
the support to build this,

they had to build it in the
then-reuniting Germany.

It's a crucial
part of the story.

So they started a
completely new institute

from nothing up here.

And they had to go into building something
that had never been built before.

Now, unsurprisingly, it
ended up being more complex

and expensive and difficult
than they planned.

Big emotion. Big
emotion, you know.

I do believe it's
really a landmark

in the history of fusion to
see with these stellarators

it works right away.

Very good.

She's a really great scientist,

and she know how to organize
the work of this people

to give good priorities,

and I really believe she deserve

full recognition for
her achievement.

Well, this fusion business

has been going a little slower
than we were all hoping

when we started this company.

We started with great gusto,

"Yeah, we're gonna
whisk that up."

And then we ran
into difficulties,

so it's a little longer
than what we wanted.

So it's a little bit
more challenging.

But we-we're still optimistic
that we're doing good progress.

It's going a little
slower than I'd like,

but it's-it's advancing forward.

So we're not kind of stopped.

So mood is okay, but now we're,
we're kind of gearing up

for a bit more of a long run
than a, than a quick success.

We're certainly not
the startup anymore,

like we used to be a real
scruffy little startup,

but now we're getting
more people,

it's a bigger shop, and
been here for a few years.

We have shown some result.

This is 1,500 microseconds.

The compression time is only

180 microseconds, a
little time here.

So the magnetic field is
going up and up and up.

This is good. This is what we want
when you compress magnetic field.

But then again you see
all those oscillations,

both on the outside sensor
and the inside sensor

and then the plasma crash,

like it-it dies here.

What we want it to do is
to go up, up, up, up, up,

probably to about
this height here.

So, we're clamping
it now, um, Claude,

so stop flowing. Stop flowing!

- Okay!
- Okay.

This is always a
stressful event,

because if we let air
into the chamber,

it's filled with moisture, and it
will ruin the quality of our vacuum.

It will take weeks and
weeks to recover.

Ooh, gosh.

All right, go on, cut
the flow in... now.

Cut it now.

Very good. Thanks.

We did it.

Five years ago when
we were staring up

and building our first machines,

we were having things
blow up every day.

It was... People were scared.

The siren really made
people frightened.

There's no point building
the wrong thing though.

I got it. Yeah, absolutely.
I know. I know.

But the flip side of that
is that that can go on

- for a while, right?
- Mm-hmm.

I know you got a good handle
on it, but just I gotta ask.

But-But I'm not against
actually restarting our...

I... well...

Because in my opinion, we should
try all the available targets.

- Got it. However...
- Because you don't know

what the hell would work or not.

It it decided that we
have a pot of work,

and we're trying to fill... we're
trying to put people in those pots.

No, no, no. We don't have enough
people to fill in those pots,

so we wanted to get people
to put into those pots

but what we have done...

- is make an extra pot.
- Is made a new pot.

- Be careful of that.
- Yes, I understand the problem.

Good.

I-I like... I'm a,

I'm a practical physicist,

an experimental physicist.

It is true that at work I
don't do the work anymore.

Now, all my guy do the
work, and we just...

I push paper and answer emails.

Sometime I go into the lab and turn
some screws just because I like it.

But yeah, this is one of
the hobby that I have.

I put my hat. That's
my mother hat.

She knitted this one.

Oh, long time ago. Must
be at least 30 years.

She passed away now.

She won't knit me a new one.

My name is Mark Uhran.

I was previously the director

of the International
Space Station division

at NASA headquarters,
and I spent 28 years

working on the space
station program,

and I now work for
the US ITER project.

What struck me the strongest
from the very first year

as I began to meet the people

that were engaged
around the world

was how much this was like

the International Space
Station program.

Uh, ITER, when I joined,
was right around the end

of their final design phase.

And today they're on the cusp

between final design
and construction.

And the space station program

toward the end of the
final design phase

was really quite chaotic.

Uh, they had not yet
reached a point

where the
decision-making process

was being done

in accordance with practices
of systems engineering.

It took two to three years

to accomplish that turnaround,

because this was a project
that spanned five partners

and involved on the order of
five to ten thousand people

around the world.

Oh, it's like trying
to change the course

on a supertanker.

So when I joined
ITER four years ago,

the process was
similarly chaotic

and certainly in need of

a regimented and disciplined
systems engineering approach.

And over the past four years,

I've seen progress
in that direction.

This-This is a real test

of human civilization.

And it's a test that we
can't afford to fail.

We have to prove that we
have the intelligence...

to prevent our own extinction.

To be able to work on
fusion, I think is for me

is a dream come true,

but it's not just us.

It's actually you guys as well,

because your support,
or your taxes,

are putting force to this,

to the dawn of the fusion age.

And so, to a large extent,
I thank you guys,

one, for your
curiosity in coming,

but also for your
support for fusion.

So, thank you.

- I'm Chuck Flanigan.
- Hi, Chuck.

Hi.

Back during the
engineering design phase,

I was the deputy manager
for the US team.

- Oh, fantastic!
- That was a long time ago.

I've been retired
since 95, so...

The Munich television
people come out.

They wanted to know, "How can
you be working on something

that's going to last 50
years into the future?"

And Ken said, "Have you ever
been into the cathedral?"

Yeah, exactly.

Those people never saw
the final product.

-No, no, they passed away,
but they also... -Good job.

- People like Spitzer, same way.
- Yeah. Right. Exactly.

- Thank you. Also thank you...
- Yeah, thanks.

For laying the foundation in the
road to get to where we are today.

I came on February 14, 19...
Uh, 2008.

I left CRPP Lausanne,
Switzerland one day

and showed up here the
next day to start working.

This is cool.

I get to go on-site.

I've never gone
beyond this point.

This is like Frodo, you know.

I've never been... This
is like, you know,

a first step on the site.

This is cool, isn't it?

Go this way?

I look at this and I see...

what is gonna happen
in five, ten years.

So even though I haven't
been down there,

I know what it is in my brain.

I can see the vessel.

I can see inside the vessel.

I can see everything, but I
can't see the plasma side.

That one, that one I'm
looking forward to seeing.

Okay?

Let's go. I wanna
get down there.

You guys are holding me back.

This is pretty cool, when you
think also that we're, uh...

gonna be about 30
meters underground.

It's weird to be here.

And to think that in about...

ten years' time, there's
going to be about

100 million degrees Celsius above...
sitting above us.

And another four and a half
meters up is the level 1,

the ground floor... launchers.

The next level up, level 2,

the diagnostics, the
heating systems,

the ion cyclotron,
electron cyclotron.

It's all there.

Just give it some time.
It will come.

I think that ITER
will probably work,

and it will demonstrate
that fusion is doable.

I think that as a project
it's very difficult

because it's international,

so there's all sort of project
management issue there.

So they're gonna
blow their budget

and their schedule big time.

It's just become such a
Tower of Babel in there,

it will burn money at twice the
rate that you need to do it.

But we'll, we'll
plow through it.

It will get built,
and it will work.

And this will, in my
opinion, give a big shot

in the arm of fusion
because here is a machine

that showed it can be done.

However, as a power plant,

I don't think it's
very practical.

It's a machine
that's very complex,

very expensive,

a little unreliable, there's
those disruption in there

that happen that can
damage the machine.

It's-It's difficult to conceive

that such a machine
can become a reliable

day-to-day power plant.

But, you know, it's-it's like
the Wright brothers, you know.

Like that plane didn't have
to take a 100 passengers

across the Atlantic,

but it evolved when somebody
showed that you can fly.

After that, lots of
investment and money goes in.

After that, the excitement
in fusion will go up,

because right now,

there's not much
excitement about fusion.

If you look at the
alternative energy concept,

you ever hear about fusion?

Ah, windmill, solar, tide,
chicken shit, whatever,

but never fusion.

Uh, this is the
Port Mann Bridge.

It's brand new actually.

It's one of those
cable-stayed ones.

It's actually quite nice.

A billion dollar... to
build such a thing.

It's about 20 billion
for 20 years.

A billion a year.
Fusion, I mean.

One bridge a year to try to
develop a new energy source

that will replace
all the fossil fuel

and the pollution and
the global warming.

Let's do it, you know.

One bridge a year. Peanuts.

Hopefully, we can crack
this nut very soon.

I will work on this thing
all my life until it works.

This is my great dream
in life, you know.

I want to make fusion happen.

♪ When I think of
all the worries ♪

♪ People seem to find

♪ And how they're in a hurry

♪ To complicate their minds

♪ By chasing after money

♪ And dreams that
can't come true ♪

♪ I'm glad that we
are different ♪

♪ We've better things to do

♪ May others plan their future

♪ I'm busy loving you

♪ One two three four

♪ Sha la la la la
la live for today ♪

♪ Sha la la la la
la live for today ♪

♪ And don't worry
'bout tomorrow, hey ♪

♪ Sha la la la la
la live for today ♪

♪ Live for today...

And I have to say that
I was starting to be

a little nervous on
the money situation

before, uh, the
Malaysian came in

because, you know, the money
in the bank was going down,

and it was getting, "Uh,
uh, we're gonna run out,"

and then they came in and then all
the investor put more money in it.

So now we're having
actually the longest runway

in front of us that we had ever.

♪ Have pleasure while we can

♪ Two three four

♪ Sha la la la la
la live for today ♪

♪ Sha la la la la
la live for today ♪

♪ And don't worry...

You hear that? That's a
glowing recommendation.

♪ Baby, I need to feel
you inside of me ♪

♪ I got to feel you
deep inside of me ♪

♪ Baby, please
come close to me ♪

♪ I got to have you
now please please ♪

♪ Please please gimme
some a-lovin' ♪

♪ To gimme some a-lovin'

♪ To gimme some a-lovin'

♪ To gimme some a-lovin'

♪ Baby gimme some a-lovin'

♪ Gimme some a-lovin'

♪ Got to have all your lovin'

♪ Gimme some a-lovin'...

At current levels of financing?

Approximately the age
of the universe.

♪ Sha la la la la
la live for today ♪

♪ Sha la la la la
la live for today ♪

♪ And don't worry
'bout tomorrow, hey ♪

♪ Sha la la la la
la live for today ♪

♪ Sha la la la la
la live for today ♪