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1
00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,335
You better finish your little
cafe latte there, they'll
never let you in with it.
2
00:00:13,369 --> 00:00:14,703
Why not?
3
00:00:14,754 --> 00:00:17,139
'cause they don't allow
outside drinks into the movie.
4
00:00:17,173 --> 00:00:19,508
Well, we'll just see if
we can't get around that.
5
00:00:23,762 --> 00:00:25,796
Pardon me. Excuse us.
6
00:00:25,831 --> 00:00:26,881
Oh!
7
00:00:26,915 --> 00:00:28,799
Ahh!
8
00:00:28,833 --> 00:00:30,017
Coffee!
9
00:00:36,006 --> 00:00:38,391
And then,
there is this tonight.
10
00:00:38,442 --> 00:00:43,395
In albuquerque, an
81-year-old woman has been
awarded $2.9 million
11
00:00:43,446 --> 00:00:47,316
After she sued mcdonald's,
claiming their coffee was
too hot.
12
00:00:47,350 --> 00:00:51,153
It seems she was holding
a cup between her legs
while driving.
13
00:00:51,203 --> 00:00:53,871
I spoke to a lawyer,
we're suing for millions.
14
00:00:55,457 --> 00:00:56,741
Suing, what for?
15
00:00:56,792 --> 00:00:58,709
The coffee was too hot!
16
00:01:03,731 --> 00:01:05,464
I've been thinking of
quitting work here,
17
00:01:05,499 --> 00:01:08,701
And suing big companies
for a living instead.
18
00:01:08,735 --> 00:01:11,170
Suing has become a popular
american pastime,
19
00:01:11,204 --> 00:01:13,572
And I'd like to get in on
some of that easy money.
20
00:01:13,607 --> 00:01:17,976
A college student
sued his college, because his
roommate partied too much.
21
00:01:18,010 --> 00:01:21,379
A florida man sued because
he got a bad haircut.
22
00:01:21,397 --> 00:01:23,597
Of course, many of
these lawsuits fail.
23
00:01:23,648 --> 00:01:25,983
But you might win.
24
00:01:26,018 --> 00:01:29,002
Stella liebeck did, because
of a cup of coffee.
25
00:01:36,610 --> 00:01:39,028
Every minute they waste on
this frivolous lawsuit,
26
00:01:39,062 --> 00:01:42,081
They're not able to waste on
other frivolous lawsuits.
27
00:01:42,116 --> 00:01:45,784
Like "ooh, my coffee was
too hot!" it's coffee!
28
00:01:45,835 --> 00:01:48,152
The woman, she purchased
the coffee, and she
spilled it on herself.
29
00:01:48,186 --> 00:01:52,506
I mean, it wasn't like the
mcdonald's employee took
the coffee, threw it on her.
30
00:01:52,541 --> 00:01:54,508
Now that in itself, then she
would have had a lawsuit.
31
00:01:54,543 --> 00:01:59,246
It's just, people just are
greedy, and want money, and
they'll do anything to get it.
32
00:02:02,184 --> 00:02:07,470
I think many americans
have a, a fundamentally
wrong perception
33
00:02:07,521 --> 00:02:09,221
Of the civil
justice system.
34
00:02:09,255 --> 00:02:12,341
They think that the
system is flooded with
frivolous lawsuits.
35
00:02:12,375 --> 00:02:13,925
Jackpot justice!
36
00:02:13,943 --> 00:02:16,145
Predatory
trial lawyers at it again.
37
00:02:16,196 --> 00:02:18,446
Junk lawsuits
over frivolous injuries...
38
00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,616
Lawsuit
lottery, and jackpot justice,
and frivolous lawsuits.
39
00:02:21,650 --> 00:02:25,368
These were bumper-sticker
phrases that were easy
to market,
40
00:02:25,403 --> 00:02:31,908
And use to move public
sentiment away from a strong
civil justice system.
41
00:02:31,959 --> 00:02:36,795
The whole issue is, the
industry does not want
the public, generally,
42
00:02:36,830 --> 00:02:38,881
To have access to the courts.
43
00:02:38,915 --> 00:02:42,784
So, there's all of
these devices and methods
that businesses use
44
00:02:42,802 --> 00:02:45,386
To keep consumers out
of the courtroom.
45
00:03:00,467 --> 00:03:03,469
My mother,
at 79, was very active.
46
00:03:03,487 --> 00:03:06,355
She drove, she drove well,
47
00:03:06,406 --> 00:03:08,673
She very seldom
dropped anything,
48
00:03:08,708 --> 00:03:11,076
She very seldom
spilled anything,
49
00:03:12,195 --> 00:03:16,330
And so that, uh,
for her age,
50
00:03:16,364 --> 00:03:20,367
At 79 years old, I thought
she was, she was remarkable.
51
00:03:20,418 --> 00:03:22,653
And she had been working
full-time just about,
52
00:03:22,671 --> 00:03:24,837
Until about a week before
this all happened.
53
00:03:38,234 --> 00:03:40,335
My name is charles allen.
54
00:03:40,353 --> 00:03:44,473
I'd like to introduce my
wife, judy, and her mother,
stella liebeck.
55
00:03:44,507 --> 00:03:49,610
The woman who was burned by a
cup of scalding hot mcdonald's
coffee three years ago.
56
00:03:49,645 --> 00:03:54,231
She cannot speak due to a
confidentiality agreement
that she signed,
57
00:03:54,282 --> 00:03:56,899
But judy and I have
no such agreement.
58
00:03:58,569 --> 00:04:04,073
I am just xxtoded at
how many people are
aware of this case,
59
00:04:04,124 --> 00:04:08,911
And how many people have a
distorted view of the case.
60
00:04:08,962 --> 00:04:13,915
It doesn't matter where I am,
or who I speak to, they "oh,
yeah, I know all about that."
61
00:04:13,966 --> 00:04:15,533
Well, what do you know?
62
00:04:15,551 --> 00:04:17,918
I got this picture in my mind
that she actually pulled up,
63
00:04:17,952 --> 00:04:21,088
Maybe took the coffee,
and dumped it.
64
00:04:21,172 --> 00:04:23,807
I think she went through
the drive-through.
65
00:04:23,874 --> 00:04:25,308
She was driving the car.
66
00:04:25,342 --> 00:04:26,810
Tried to drive and drink
it at the same time.
67
00:04:26,844 --> 00:04:29,512
And then it might have
popped open and it
spilled on her lap.
68
00:04:29,546 --> 00:04:30,796
Had it between her legs.
69
00:04:30,864 --> 00:04:32,931
Spilled in her lap,
it was too hot.
70
00:04:32,982 --> 00:04:34,216
And then sued mcdonald's
71
00:04:34,234 --> 00:04:36,586
For millions of dollars.
72
00:04:36,619 --> 00:04:41,690
And I'll say, "what would
you say if I told you
she wasn't driving?"
73
00:04:41,724 --> 00:04:43,858
"oh no, she was driving!"
74
00:04:43,892 --> 00:04:47,995
"what would you say if I told
you that's the wrong report,
and she was not driving?
75
00:04:48,029 --> 00:04:50,447
"she was in the parking lot.
76
00:04:50,498 --> 00:04:53,666
"she was in the passenger
seat. My nephew was driving."
77
00:04:55,370 --> 00:04:58,371
So we had just dropped off
my uncle at the airport,
78
00:04:58,404 --> 00:05:04,743
And went to the nearest
mcdonald's that I knew of,
and this was it.
79
00:05:04,761 --> 00:05:09,381
So, pulled up, she ordered
coffee with her value meal,
80
00:05:09,415 --> 00:05:11,766
And I knew she liked
cream and sugar in it.
81
00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,852
There was no place in,
in my 1989 ford probe.
82
00:05:14,886 --> 00:05:18,388
Everything sloped. There were
no cup holders in that car.
83
00:05:19,891 --> 00:05:21,108
Did I get cream
and sugar also?
84
00:05:21,142 --> 00:05:22,108
It's in the bag.
85
00:05:22,143 --> 00:05:23,226
It's in the bag?
Yeah.
86
00:05:23,260 --> 00:05:24,444
Thank you.
87
00:05:27,063 --> 00:05:29,031
We pulled out of here
knowing that we...
88
00:05:29,065 --> 00:05:31,817
I needed to get organized
if I was going to be
eating and driving,
89
00:05:31,868 --> 00:05:34,402
And I knew she wanted
to put her cream and
sugar in the coffee,
90
00:05:34,436 --> 00:05:38,823
So, pretty much pulled
right here, almost
exactly in this spot,
91
00:05:38,874 --> 00:05:42,744
And handed her her coffee,
or had already done that,
92
00:05:42,778 --> 00:05:47,297
And so we just went
about organizing,
93
00:05:47,332 --> 00:05:51,818
And a short period after
that, she started screaming.
94
00:05:51,853 --> 00:05:54,337
Wanted to get the top off
to put cream and sugar in,
95
00:05:54,388 --> 00:05:58,474
So I put it between my knees
to steady it with this hand,
96
00:05:58,508 --> 00:06:01,677
Trying to get the top off,
and it just went "whoo."
97
00:06:01,728 --> 00:06:04,179
Are you going to
show me the burns?
Yeah.
98
00:06:04,230 --> 00:06:05,480
What?
99
00:06:05,515 --> 00:06:08,266
Yeah. Would that
change your mind at all?
100
00:06:08,300 --> 00:06:10,268
Wow.
101
00:06:10,302 --> 00:06:15,072
Yes, if I saw injuries like
that, I would definitely take
a different view of it
102
00:06:15,106 --> 00:06:16,357
From what I hear
from the media.
103
00:06:16,391 --> 00:06:17,574
Oh, my gosh!
104
00:06:22,763 --> 00:06:25,031
Excruciating pain.
105
00:06:25,082 --> 00:06:30,335
Uh, I was burned so
severely that, uh, they
didn't think I would live.
106
00:06:30,370 --> 00:06:33,154
I'm a nurse, and I
was horrified
107
00:06:33,172 --> 00:06:35,757
At the type of injuries
that she had sustained.
108
00:06:35,792 --> 00:06:39,377
Um, the skin grafts,
and the pieces that
were still ongoing.
109
00:06:39,428 --> 00:06:44,298
So it was kind of a shocker,
'cause it's one thing to hear,
but it's another thing to see.
110
00:06:44,332 --> 00:06:47,134
So it was kind of, uh,
"oh my goodness."
111
00:06:47,168 --> 00:06:52,522
We could see
the extent of this injury,
so we started saying
112
00:06:52,556 --> 00:06:55,725
We need to ask mcdonald's
to pay for this.
113
00:06:55,810 --> 00:06:59,812
Under no circumstances
would she ever sue or
do anything like that.
114
00:06:59,846 --> 00:07:04,532
We thought that the company
would take care of medical,
and everything would be done.
115
00:07:04,566 --> 00:07:08,052
And chuck and I wrote
the letter to mcdonald's.
116
00:07:08,087 --> 00:07:12,072
The very first
thing we said is, "your
machine must be too hot,
117
00:07:12,123 --> 00:07:14,491
"so look at it, and
fix it, if it's broken."
118
00:07:14,525 --> 00:07:16,159
This must be
an aberration.
119
00:07:16,193 --> 00:07:19,162
"it must be
an aberration. But if
it is your, your policy,
120
00:07:19,197 --> 00:07:21,298
"we ask you to worry
about that policy,
121
00:07:21,332 --> 00:07:25,251
"because it...You do not
want to have this happen
to just one person."
122
00:07:25,302 --> 00:07:27,837
And then clearly it can't have
happened to just one person.
123
00:07:29,305 --> 00:07:33,808
We were extremely surprised
when mcdonald's did not
124
00:07:33,843 --> 00:07:38,912
Offer more than $800 on
what was at that point a
$10,000 medical problem.
125
00:07:43,051 --> 00:07:44,735
It's one of those things
that's really like,
126
00:07:44,769 --> 00:07:46,520
If you ask people what the top
ten issues they care about,
127
00:07:46,554 --> 00:07:49,322
You know, the economy,
healthcare, education,
128
00:07:49,356 --> 00:07:52,408
The civil justice system never
even makes the top twenty.
129
00:07:52,443 --> 00:07:55,560
It's just not in, in most
people's radar screen.
130
00:07:55,578 --> 00:07:57,395
Until something bad
happens to them,
131
00:07:57,413 --> 00:08:01,065
And then the first thing that
most americans think is that
they should find a lawyer.
132
00:08:01,083 --> 00:08:05,085
When you are hurt by somebody,
harmed in some way,
133
00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,873
And the person or the company
that harms you is negligent,
134
00:08:08,907 --> 00:08:12,343
Or does this intentionally,
135
00:08:12,377 --> 00:08:15,028
You have a right to hold
that wrongdoer accountable.
136
00:08:15,062 --> 00:08:18,164
And those are the
civil courts that handle
those kinds of cases,
137
00:08:18,199 --> 00:08:20,265
And that is our
civil justice system.
138
00:08:20,300 --> 00:08:24,136
It's a fundamental right
that we have. It stems
from the constitution,
139
00:08:24,187 --> 00:08:25,721
From the bill of rights.
140
00:08:25,755 --> 00:08:29,057
♪ hey there, kiddos
the lesson today
141
00:08:29,091 --> 00:08:32,894
♪ is about our constitution
and the government way
142
00:08:32,928 --> 00:08:36,229
♪ lawmaking powers
divided in three
143
00:08:40,418 --> 00:08:43,753
♪ forefathers had their say
144
00:08:43,788 --> 00:08:47,940
♪ that is the american way ♪
145
00:08:47,958 --> 00:08:51,126
Our judicial branch
of government is one of the
very few places where
146
00:08:51,161 --> 00:08:54,278
An average person can
actually go and confront
a big corporation
147
00:08:54,296 --> 00:08:56,632
On somewhat of a level
playing field, you know.
148
00:08:56,666 --> 00:09:01,869
The other two branches of
government are dominated
by money, and politics.
149
00:09:01,903 --> 00:09:06,056
The judicial branch is
not, because you can't
wine and dine juries.
150
00:09:06,090 --> 00:09:10,677
In the
courts, it's you versus
general motors.
151
00:09:10,728 --> 00:09:13,680
Or it's you versus, you
know, bank of america.
152
00:09:13,731 --> 00:09:17,650
And if you can present your
information and your complaint
in an effective way,
153
00:09:17,684 --> 00:09:21,604
You have just as much
likelihood of winning
as general motors does.
154
00:09:21,638 --> 00:09:24,490
There's no other part of the
government where that's true.
155
00:09:26,759 --> 00:09:31,579
I got involved in
the liebeck case by way of
invitation from reed morgan,
156
00:09:31,613 --> 00:09:34,648
Who was lead council,
157
00:09:34,666 --> 00:09:39,453
And once I met reed, and
met stella liebeck, and
looked at the evidence,
158
00:09:39,487 --> 00:09:41,505
You know, they had
my full attention.
159
00:09:41,540 --> 00:09:45,875
Because the coffee in question
was brewed at temperatures
160
00:09:45,926 --> 00:09:49,545
That would approximate the
temperature in your radiator
161
00:09:49,596 --> 00:09:53,432
After you drive from,
you know, from your
office to home.
162
00:09:53,466 --> 00:09:59,354
In discovery, we learned
that in the franchise
directives and manuals,
163
00:09:59,389 --> 00:10:02,172
That the franchisee was
required to follow,
164
00:10:02,190 --> 00:10:06,027
That they had to have
their, their waters at
certain temperatures.
165
00:10:06,111 --> 00:10:13,567
And they said that the holding
temperature should be 180
fahrenheit to 190 fahrenheit.
166
00:10:13,618 --> 00:10:16,302
Hot liquid, whether
it's coffee, or water,
167
00:10:16,337 --> 00:10:18,070
Or any liquid like that,
168
00:10:18,121 --> 00:10:21,790
If it's in the range of
180 degrees or hotter,
169
00:10:21,825 --> 00:10:25,243
If it is in contact with
your skin for more than
just a few seconds,
170
00:10:25,294 --> 00:10:27,712
It will produce
very serious burns.
171
00:10:27,746 --> 00:10:30,798
If you're lucky, it'll
produce a second-degree burn,
172
00:10:30,832 --> 00:10:35,035
If you're not as lucky,
you will get third-degree,
or full-thickness burns
173
00:10:35,053 --> 00:10:37,453
Requiring skin grafting
and surgery.
174
00:10:44,194 --> 00:10:47,847
And if
you add up the, uh, burn
history of mcdonald's
175
00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:55,186
Since January of 1983
until March of uh, '92,
176
00:10:55,220 --> 00:10:59,406
It's over 700 burn cases,
and that doesn't surprise
you, does it?
177
00:10:59,441 --> 00:11:03,611
I can't say that I'm surprised
or not surprised. I'm, I'm
glad the number's not higher.
178
00:11:03,662 --> 00:11:05,279
All right.
179
00:11:05,330 --> 00:11:07,330
I'm, I'm really pleased that
that's not more than that.
180
00:11:07,365 --> 00:11:10,116
I thought that
was, that was terrible
181
00:11:10,167 --> 00:11:12,452
That he was so indifferent
about it, you know.
182
00:11:12,502 --> 00:11:16,421
Uh, even if it was just
one person, that's enough
to pay attention to.
183
00:11:16,456 --> 00:11:19,925
I mean, uh, one
person that spoke up.
184
00:11:19,959 --> 00:11:23,911
I'm sure there's more
than that, that was
damaged with a hot coffee.
185
00:11:25,213 --> 00:11:28,633
But, uh, it's so easy to
burn at that temperature,
186
00:11:29,801 --> 00:11:31,285
And they were so
indifferent about it.
187
00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:33,803
If you were to take
a sip of that coffee,
188
00:11:33,854 --> 00:11:36,856
Enough to where you could
feel it go down your throat,
189
00:11:36,891 --> 00:11:40,593
You can't do that at 180
to 190 degrees, can you,
because you'll be burned.
190
00:11:40,611 --> 00:11:42,679
You better not do that,
you will get burned.
191
00:11:49,352 --> 00:11:55,490
We talked about different
percentages of how much was
her fault versus, you know,
192
00:11:55,541 --> 00:11:57,492
How much was mcdonald's,
193
00:11:57,543 --> 00:12:02,796
And we finally came to assign
20% fault to mrs. Liebeck,
194
00:12:02,830 --> 00:12:05,448
Because she had initially
spilled the coffee,
195
00:12:05,466 --> 00:12:11,220
And we assigned 80% of the,
uh, blame to mcdonald's,
196
00:12:11,254 --> 00:12:15,925
Because they had a
very long history of
people being injured,
197
00:12:15,958 --> 00:12:21,513
And they were so adamant that
it was such a trivial thing,
198
00:12:21,564 --> 00:12:24,966
That they weren't going
to bother to do anything
199
00:12:24,984 --> 00:12:29,420
Other than just continue
to rake in the money
on their coffee sales.
200
00:12:29,454 --> 00:12:32,088
And the fact that it
was their own records
201
00:12:32,122 --> 00:12:35,525
Really damned mcdonald's
as far as I was concerned,
202
00:12:35,577 --> 00:12:39,795
Because it was very
obvious that they knew
there was a problem,
203
00:12:39,830 --> 00:12:42,148
And they were ignoring
it completely.
204
00:12:42,166 --> 00:12:46,401
Just totally disregarding
the consumers' safety.
205
00:12:51,924 --> 00:12:56,127
We looked at the
coffee sales on a daily basis,
206
00:12:56,161 --> 00:13:01,132
And we figured about two
days' worth of coffee sales.
207
00:13:01,166 --> 00:13:04,384
We thought that that was,
you know, a fair amount,
208
00:13:04,435 --> 00:13:09,388
And punitive damages we, uh,
assessed at $2.7 million.
209
00:13:09,439 --> 00:13:16,045
Punitive damages are
very rare, and they
have a specific purpose,
210
00:13:16,079 --> 00:13:19,747
Which is to essentially change
the behavior of the wrongdoer.
211
00:13:19,782 --> 00:13:24,535
Only way you can get
the attention of a big
company would be,
212
00:13:24,570 --> 00:13:27,988
To, uh, make punitive
damages against them,
213
00:13:28,022 --> 00:13:31,807
And this was a very small
punitive damage, we thought.
214
00:13:43,536 --> 00:13:45,637
Even though the amount
was reduced later,
215
00:13:45,671 --> 00:13:51,892
I think the initial
award certainly got
everybody's attention,
216
00:13:51,926 --> 00:13:54,212
Not necessarily in
a favorable way.
217
00:13:54,230 --> 00:13:58,347
♪ I sued starbucks,
'cause I spilled a
frappuccino in my lap,
218
00:13:58,398 --> 00:13:59,883
♪ and brr it was cold
219
00:13:59,901 --> 00:14:02,985
♪ I'm gonna sue, sue,
yes I'm gonna sue
220
00:14:03,020 --> 00:14:04,987
♪ sue, sue
221
00:14:05,022 --> 00:14:09,724
The media in corporate
america turned a disadvantage
into an advantage,
222
00:14:09,759 --> 00:14:14,196
An extreme advantage,
as to how they dealt with
this case and its aftermath.
223
00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:19,667
I mean, mrs. Liebeck
became a joke, the jury
function became a joke,
224
00:14:19,701 --> 00:14:22,902
Notwithstanding of the fact
that we had twelve good,
225
00:14:22,921 --> 00:14:25,755
Hardworking new mexico
citizens on that jury,
226
00:14:25,790 --> 00:14:28,074
And it was a
unanimous verdict.
227
00:14:28,092 --> 00:14:32,095
But they did a masterful
job of taking this,
this simple verdict
228
00:14:32,179 --> 00:14:34,964
And turning it upside
down, as though people
like mrs. Liebeck
229
00:14:35,015 --> 00:14:40,252
Are trying to take
economic advantage of,
of the whole legal system.
230
00:14:40,270 --> 00:14:43,588
The tort
reform groups, they love
the mcdonald's coffee case,
231
00:14:43,606 --> 00:14:46,641
This was a perfect case
for them, because it looked
like it was frivolous.
232
00:14:46,692 --> 00:14:51,378
I had heard
the word "tort reform"
before my mother was injured,
233
00:14:51,412 --> 00:14:56,149
But I, I had never really
understood what that meant.
234
00:14:59,537 --> 00:15:04,890
A tort is, uh, a pastry,
as far as I know.
235
00:15:04,925 --> 00:15:06,525
It's also some
type of funding
236
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:10,495
That the federal government
has done, uh, for bailout
money, I believe.
237
00:15:10,529 --> 00:15:12,180
Oh, I thought
that was tarp.
238
00:15:12,214 --> 00:15:13,531
No, I think it's tort.
239
00:15:13,566 --> 00:15:15,750
Uh...
I have no
idea what a tort is.
240
00:15:15,784 --> 00:15:18,553
A tort is a piece of...
241
00:15:20,088 --> 00:15:22,423
It's a...I think a tort
is a piece of bread
242
00:15:22,457 --> 00:15:27,677
That looks like a
hoagie roll, but
isn't a hoagie roll.
243
00:15:27,728 --> 00:15:32,732
So a tort is a harm,
it's, it's a, when
someone commits a tort,
244
00:15:32,766 --> 00:15:34,300
They have harmed
you in some way.
245
00:15:34,318 --> 00:15:36,402
I've heard the statement,
"tort reform."
246
00:15:36,436 --> 00:15:37,686
Do you know
what it means?
247
00:15:37,737 --> 00:15:39,821
No.
248
00:15:39,856 --> 00:15:44,809
Tort reform would mean
trying to clean up, the, the
logistics of suing people,
249
00:15:44,827 --> 00:15:46,978
Or, or trying to make
it easier or harder.
250
00:15:46,996 --> 00:15:49,747
I'm not quite sure which way
tort reform tends to work.
251
00:15:49,781 --> 00:15:54,951
Well, tort reform is a term
drummed up by some of the
advertising people for the uh,
252
00:15:54,985 --> 00:15:56,537
Business sector,
253
00:15:56,571 --> 00:16:00,173
Which is, to limit the
likelihood that you
can bring a lawsuit.
254
00:16:00,207 --> 00:16:05,894
It is, essentially, laws
that restrict people's
rights to go to court.
255
00:16:05,929 --> 00:16:07,963
I don't think that the term...
I'm not going to say it.
256
00:16:07,996 --> 00:16:11,683
I, I just won't say the
word "tort reform," the
phrase, that phrase,
257
00:16:11,718 --> 00:16:15,136
Because, um, I don't
think that it, uh,
258
00:16:15,170 --> 00:16:17,688
Is an accurate representation
of what's really going on.
259
00:16:17,723 --> 00:16:23,226
Ralph nader calls it "tort
deform," so I guess reform is
in the eyes of the beholder.
260
00:16:23,277 --> 00:16:28,898
But if you want to change a
system, which had become,
in the late 1970s,
261
00:16:28,949 --> 00:16:32,034
Very, very pro-plaintiff
in the view of some,
262
00:16:32,068 --> 00:16:35,988
If you want to change
it, usually the word
"reform" is used.
263
00:16:37,539 --> 00:16:40,875
This big push to
publicize the mcdonald's case
264
00:16:40,910 --> 00:16:43,661
Came in the midst of
an attempt to pass
federal legislation.
265
00:16:43,695 --> 00:16:46,997
It was going to limit
the consumer's right
to go to court.
266
00:16:47,031 --> 00:16:49,366
It meant that there were
going to be caps on damages,
267
00:16:49,384 --> 00:16:53,003
That there were gonna be all
sorts of changes in the rules
268
00:16:53,037 --> 00:16:55,704
Of what you could do in order
to bring a case into court.
269
00:16:55,722 --> 00:16:59,175
And so there was this
humongous campaign
by industry,
270
00:16:59,209 --> 00:17:02,595
Attempting to affect
juries, but also attempting
to affect senators.
271
00:17:02,679 --> 00:17:05,280
And the mcdonald's case
became the poster child
272
00:17:05,314 --> 00:17:07,899
For what's wrong
with people going to
court and suing.
273
00:17:07,934 --> 00:17:12,436
We looked at
the congressional hearings
about the tort reform bill,
274
00:17:12,487 --> 00:17:17,524
And we found that the
most common reference
to justify tort reform
275
00:17:17,558 --> 00:17:19,158
Was the mcdonald's
coffee case.
276
00:17:19,193 --> 00:17:21,160
There were not many
statistical studies.
277
00:17:21,195 --> 00:17:23,446
The primary evidence was,
everybody knows the
mcdonald's coffee case,
278
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,498
Therefore we need tort reform.
279
00:17:25,532 --> 00:17:30,370
If a lady goes to a fast food
restaurant, puts coffee in her
lap, burns her, her legs,
280
00:17:30,403 --> 00:17:32,587
And sues and gets
a big settlement,
281
00:17:32,622 --> 00:17:36,675
That in and of...Of itself
is enough to tell you why we
need to have tort reform.
282
00:17:36,742 --> 00:17:39,845
And in fact what happened was,
it did pass the senate,
283
00:17:39,878 --> 00:17:42,463
And, uh, president
bill clinton did veto it.
284
00:17:42,514 --> 00:17:45,967
This legislation is
arcane, complex,
285
00:17:46,001 --> 00:17:49,019
It has a lot of legalisms
and loopholes in it,
286
00:17:49,053 --> 00:17:55,024
But the real fact is, it
could have a devastating
impact on innocent americans.
287
00:17:55,058 --> 00:17:56,759
And so
what happened was,
288
00:17:56,777 --> 00:17:58,610
Corporate america sort
of went to a plan b,
289
00:17:58,645 --> 00:18:01,113
So they went to a lot
of state legislatures,
290
00:18:01,147 --> 00:18:03,948
And asked the state
legislatures to pass laws
291
00:18:03,984 --> 00:18:07,869
That would limit the rights
and remedies of individuals
in various ways.
292
00:18:07,903 --> 00:18:11,439
And they were constantly
on the attack, because
they had so many pr firms
293
00:18:11,457 --> 00:18:14,625
That they had hired to go
out and do their work in
the different states.
294
00:18:14,660 --> 00:18:19,179
A woman was
awarded $2.9 million in a
lawsuit against mcdonald's.
295
00:18:19,213 --> 00:18:22,614
She spilled hot coffee on her
lap while sitting in her car,
and claimed it was too hot.
296
00:18:22,632 --> 00:18:27,619
Every day we hear about
another outrageous lawsuit.
Who pays? You do.
297
00:18:27,637 --> 00:18:31,556
Tell the legislature we
can't afford another million
dollar cup of coffee.
298
00:18:31,590 --> 00:18:35,610
One of the most
significant pr efforts
299
00:18:35,644 --> 00:18:38,563
Was spearheaded by the
american tort reform
association,
300
00:18:38,580 --> 00:18:40,731
Atra.
301
00:18:40,765 --> 00:18:46,352
The american tort reform
association is a group of
several hundred businesses
302
00:18:46,403 --> 00:18:49,138
And also colleges
and universities,
303
00:18:49,189 --> 00:18:51,157
And I'm their general counsel.
304
00:18:51,191 --> 00:18:53,476
And they are dedicated
to try to see
305
00:18:53,494 --> 00:18:56,162
That there's a fair and
balanced legal system
in the United States.
306
00:18:56,196 --> 00:19:00,999
The american
tort reform association
was formed in 1986
307
00:19:01,034 --> 00:19:04,953
By about 300 major
corporations,
308
00:19:04,987 --> 00:19:09,623
Insurance companies, chemical
companies, oil and gas,
pharmaceutical companies.
309
00:19:09,657 --> 00:19:13,026
They were going to start
advocating for laws all
around the country
310
00:19:13,061 --> 00:19:17,013
To limit the liability
of all their members.
311
00:19:17,048 --> 00:19:20,183
And so they hired a pr
firm, and they came up
with these groups called
312
00:19:20,217 --> 00:19:22,919
Citizens against
lawsuit abuse.
313
00:19:22,953 --> 00:19:25,320
They were to give
the impression
314
00:19:25,355 --> 00:19:29,475
That these were just
citizen groups that had
sprung up spontaneously.
315
00:19:29,509 --> 00:19:33,194
Astroturf groups.
So they looked like they were
grassroots groups,
316
00:19:33,228 --> 00:19:36,447
But they really had no people
in them, they were all run
through the pr firm.
317
00:19:36,482 --> 00:19:38,649
But that's what citizens
against lawsuit abuse was.
318
00:19:38,683 --> 00:19:42,502
The tobacco industry
was actually funding
a lot of this.
319
00:19:42,537 --> 00:19:46,490
That they would
funnel money through a
washington, dc law firm
320
00:19:46,524 --> 00:19:48,275
Called covington & burling,
321
00:19:48,309 --> 00:19:51,093
That would then distribute
tobacco money
322
00:19:51,128 --> 00:19:55,363
To some of these citizens
against lawsuit abuse groups.
323
00:19:55,381 --> 00:20:00,085
Was there any distortions
by people in the media,
by politicians,
324
00:20:00,136 --> 00:20:02,170
By people who
wanted tort reform?
325
00:20:02,204 --> 00:20:05,340
Sometimes stories were
repeated, and repeated
over and over again,
326
00:20:05,374 --> 00:20:07,375
It happens all the time,
327
00:20:07,393 --> 00:20:11,311
That were not, uh, true, or
they were unfounded. I don't
think it was intentional.
328
00:20:11,346 --> 00:20:13,180
Listen to just a few cases.
329
00:20:13,214 --> 00:20:17,183
I hope I won't be repeating
some that maybe have already
been told to you.
330
00:20:17,217 --> 00:20:21,387
In california, a man was
using a public telephone
booth to place a call.
331
00:20:21,405 --> 00:20:24,656
An alleged drunk driver
careened down the street,
332
00:20:24,690 --> 00:20:28,059
Lost control of her car, and
crashed into the phone booth.
333
00:20:28,077 --> 00:20:30,946
Now it's no surprise that
the injured man sued,
334
00:20:30,997 --> 00:20:34,899
But you might be startled
to hear whom he sued.
335
00:20:34,917 --> 00:20:38,735
The telephone company
and associated firms.
336
00:20:38,753 --> 00:20:40,920
That's right.
337
00:20:40,955 --> 00:20:44,707
There's a telephone booth
on the corner of a very busy
intersection in los angeles,
338
00:20:44,742 --> 00:20:47,961
And this guy was standing
inside, and he saw this
car coming right at him,
339
00:20:48,012 --> 00:20:50,830
And he tried to get
out of the phone booth,
and the door stuck.
340
00:20:50,865 --> 00:20:53,715
And the reason that
this was the fault of
the telephone company
341
00:20:53,749 --> 00:20:55,350
Is that there'd been
lots of other cases
342
00:20:55,385 --> 00:20:57,918
Where this telephone booth
had been hit by cars,
343
00:20:57,936 --> 00:21:00,254
'cause it was in a very
dangerous position,
344
00:21:00,289 --> 00:21:03,975
And it hadn't been
properly repaired, so
the guy couldn't get out!
345
00:21:04,026 --> 00:21:06,144
And so he was hit
inside the phone booth.
346
00:21:06,195 --> 00:21:08,062
He lost his leg. He
was extremely ill.
347
00:21:08,096 --> 00:21:12,098
You know, it was not the
source of real humor the
way reagan had portrayed it.
348
00:21:12,116 --> 00:21:13,617
So there were a lot
of stories like that.
349
00:21:13,651 --> 00:21:16,403
For me, you know, not being
a lawyer, I'm a journalist,
350
00:21:16,437 --> 00:21:20,406
And I felt like journalists
had just really not done
a good job of covering,
351
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:24,792
And that they had fallen for
lots of public relations ruses
352
00:21:24,827 --> 00:21:26,711
That they should
know better about.
353
00:21:26,745 --> 00:21:31,499
There was even a story of
somebody taking a lawnmower
to trim a hedge,
354
00:21:31,550 --> 00:21:34,452
And there was a lawsuit, and
actually it never occurred.
355
00:21:34,470 --> 00:21:38,588
So there were some scare
tactics that really didn't
have basis in fact.
356
00:21:38,622 --> 00:21:41,591
I didn't take this job
to sit around and worry
about getting sued.
357
00:21:41,625 --> 00:21:43,509
If we don't stop
lawsuit abuse,
358
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,311
I might not be
able to do my job.
359
00:21:45,345 --> 00:21:48,963
And my job just might
be to save your life.
360
00:21:48,981 --> 00:21:52,150
Join the
jury against lawsuit abuse.
361
00:21:52,185 --> 00:21:56,905
It was supposedly just a
group of business people
and community leaders
362
00:21:56,939 --> 00:21:58,973
Who were acting on their
own, when in fact,
363
00:21:58,991 --> 00:22:02,077
It was a carefully
orchestrated campaign,
364
00:22:02,111 --> 00:22:07,146
Orchestrated out of
washington, dc with the help
of people like karl rove,
365
00:22:07,164 --> 00:22:12,752
Who had their own business and
financial interest in pushing
the agenda of tort reform,
366
00:22:12,786 --> 00:22:16,256
And making it look
like it was a totally
spontaneous event.
367
00:22:16,290 --> 00:22:22,327
Texas must end the junk
lawsuits that clog our courts
and threaten our producers.
368
00:22:24,980 --> 00:22:27,616
In texas in the
mid '90s, you had karl rove,
369
00:22:27,684 --> 00:22:29,884
And then-candidate
bush come along,
370
00:22:29,918 --> 00:22:32,669
And see that there was a
real political advantage
371
00:22:32,687 --> 00:22:34,688
To talking about
so-called tort reform.
372
00:22:34,722 --> 00:22:38,775
Karl rove was, in the
early 1990s, a consultant
for phillip morris,
373
00:22:38,809 --> 00:22:40,142
For the tobacco industry.
374
00:22:40,176 --> 00:22:43,112
He was working for
phillip morris and bush
at the same time.
375
00:22:43,146 --> 00:22:46,265
He was on the phillip
morris payroll. So he had a
lot of ties to these folks.
376
00:22:46,299 --> 00:22:52,121
Rove saw that if he used
tort reform, and if his
candidates ran on tort reform,
377
00:22:52,155 --> 00:22:54,455
It would make it that
much easier for him
378
00:22:54,490 --> 00:22:56,441
To open the pockets of
the business community.
379
00:22:56,475 --> 00:23:00,578
And then, once governor
bush was elected, uh, it
was katy bar the door.
380
00:23:00,629 --> 00:23:04,915
They implemented all of the
things that interests like
insurance companies,
381
00:23:04,966 --> 00:23:08,085
And the health care industry,
and others wanted in texas.
382
00:23:08,136 --> 00:23:13,673
And so it's with great
pleasure that I sign a cap
on punitive damages,
383
00:23:13,707 --> 00:23:17,342
That will add certainty
to the business climate.
384
00:23:19,312 --> 00:23:23,098
And a lot of the people who
had been his biggest financial
backers in texas,
385
00:23:23,149 --> 00:23:26,900
They followed him right to the
white house. So he kept going.
386
00:23:26,935 --> 00:23:31,188
No one has ever been healed
by a frivolous lawsuit.
387
00:23:31,221 --> 00:23:35,057
I urge the congress to pass
medical liability reform.
388
00:23:35,075 --> 00:23:42,532
Our economy is held back by
irresponsible class actions,
and frivolous asbestos claims,
389
00:23:42,566 --> 00:23:47,753
And I urge congress to pass
legal reforms this year.
390
00:23:47,787 --> 00:23:51,289
Because lawsuits are
driving many good doctors
out of practice,
391
00:23:51,340 --> 00:23:57,044
Leaving women in nearly
1500 american counties
without a single obgyn,
392
00:23:57,095 --> 00:24:01,965
I ask the congress to
pass medical liability
reform this year.
393
00:24:02,016 --> 00:24:04,067
He was
tort-reformer-in-chief.
394
00:24:04,101 --> 00:24:08,253
He really brought the issue
to center stage in a way
nobody else had ever done.
395
00:24:08,271 --> 00:24:11,223
Too many good docs are
getting out of business.
396
00:24:11,257 --> 00:24:14,593
Too many obgyns aren't
able to practice their,
397
00:24:14,628 --> 00:24:16,595
Their love with women
all across this country.
398
00:24:16,613 --> 00:24:20,565
We're a litigious
society. Everybody's
suing, it seems like.
399
00:24:20,599 --> 00:24:24,619
There are too many
lawsuits in america...
400
00:24:24,653 --> 00:24:28,271
If you have the right
words that evoke your
whole system of thought,
401
00:24:28,289 --> 00:24:30,390
And your way of
understanding an issue,
402
00:24:30,425 --> 00:24:34,294
And when that language is
repeated over and over,
the brain changes.
403
00:24:34,329 --> 00:24:37,997
The circuitry gets stronger,
and can become permanent.
404
00:24:38,048 --> 00:24:42,051
In my line of work you gotta
keep repeating things over
and over and over again,
405
00:24:42,969 --> 00:24:45,453
For the truth to sink in.
406
00:24:45,471 --> 00:24:48,790
To kind of catapult
the propaganda.
407
00:24:48,808 --> 00:24:50,841
So they would get their
message out there,
408
00:24:50,892 --> 00:24:56,296
And then the public
would pressure their
local legislators
409
00:24:56,314 --> 00:25:00,801
To enact caps on damages
and other kinds of
liability limits.
410
00:25:00,819 --> 00:25:03,854
So there was a direct link
between the pr that was done,
411
00:25:03,905 --> 00:25:06,723
And ultimately the
passage of laws.
412
00:25:21,253 --> 00:25:22,420
That's
for everybody?
413
00:25:22,454 --> 00:25:23,454
Yeah.
414
00:25:23,488 --> 00:25:24,655
All right!
415
00:25:28,175 --> 00:25:31,661
We got 16 candles we
have to put in here, because
you're 16 years old.
416
00:25:31,679 --> 00:25:34,264
So pick up one.
417
00:25:34,298 --> 00:25:40,219
This has to be the top.
Turn it around, so that you
have a hold of this part,
418
00:25:40,270 --> 00:25:42,721
And then you're going
to put it in up there.
419
00:25:42,772 --> 00:25:44,723
Any place you want.
420
00:25:45,841 --> 00:25:47,174
Put it there.
421
00:25:48,861 --> 00:25:51,229
Okay, now let me show
you what you need to do,
you need to take...
422
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:52,980
Don't laugh.
423
00:25:53,014 --> 00:25:56,683
They're not, they're not gonna
laugh. Take a hold of it,
here I'll help you.
424
00:25:56,701 --> 00:25:58,785
I had no
idea what tort reform was.
425
00:25:58,820 --> 00:26:03,038
I had no idea that there
were caps on damages
here in nebraska,
426
00:26:03,073 --> 00:26:05,591
Um, prior to colin's case.
427
00:26:05,625 --> 00:26:09,995
Caps on damages,
I think, is something
that exists when there...
428
00:26:10,029 --> 00:26:13,498
When there is misuse
in the system, so I,
429
00:26:13,532 --> 00:26:18,135
I would trust, just as
someone has the right to
access the courts, uh,
430
00:26:18,169 --> 00:26:22,557
There should be a body
overseeing it, and
regulating it, and uh,
431
00:26:22,591 --> 00:26:24,675
And that's what a cap is.
432
00:26:24,709 --> 00:26:27,878
A cap is, is public
oversight on abuse.
433
00:26:27,896 --> 00:26:31,881
No, it's a, it's a limit
for how much money you
can get from, like,
434
00:26:31,899 --> 00:26:35,685
The tobacco company that
killed your wife because
of lung cancer or...
435
00:26:35,719 --> 00:26:37,386
Right.
436
00:26:37,404 --> 00:26:40,188
I don't know, you can only
sue your doctor for so
much, right, isn't that...
437
00:26:40,222 --> 00:26:43,241
Right, because there's
abuse, and so you have
to set a limit.
438
00:26:43,276 --> 00:26:49,229
One of the most common
so-called tort reforms is
what's called caps on damages,
439
00:26:49,247 --> 00:26:54,117
Or limits on the amount of
money that a jury or a judge
can award to somebody
440
00:26:54,168 --> 00:26:56,570
After they've been hurt
and won their case.
441
00:26:56,588 --> 00:27:00,123
Their opportunity to
get compensation is
strictly limited.
442
00:27:00,157 --> 00:27:05,744
I, I want to be honest with
you, I'm not advocating caps
on malpractice awards.
443
00:27:09,682 --> 00:27:11,800
Which I believe, uh,
I personally believe
444
00:27:11,851 --> 00:27:15,019
Can be unfair to people
who've, uh, been
wrongfully harmed.
445
00:27:18,689 --> 00:27:21,058
Wow, you're
a big helper.
446
00:27:21,093 --> 00:27:22,226
I know that.
447
00:27:23,811 --> 00:27:28,280
I was 36 weeks along, um,
448
00:27:28,315 --> 00:27:31,433
Pregnant with
identical twin boys,
449
00:27:31,451 --> 00:27:37,605
And I noticed the night
before my regularly scheduled
doctor's appointment,
450
00:27:37,623 --> 00:27:41,160
That the movement...Normally
when I'd go to bed the,
451
00:27:41,211 --> 00:27:43,545
The babies would be really
moving around a lot,
452
00:27:43,579 --> 00:27:46,414
And I noticed that
they weren't moving
around very much,
453
00:27:46,448 --> 00:27:50,300
And I just kind of felt
like, you know, this
is kind of weird.
454
00:27:50,335 --> 00:27:54,837
And I, I'm going to the
doctor in the morning,
I'll talk to her about it.
455
00:27:54,888 --> 00:27:58,291
And I went in, and I told her,
and she's like, well let's
listen to the heartbeats,
456
00:27:58,308 --> 00:28:00,476
And she listened
to the heartbeats,
457
00:28:00,511 --> 00:28:03,228
And, um, she said, you know,
the heartbeats are normal,
458
00:28:03,262 --> 00:28:06,214
Every, you know, it
sounds, you know,
everything looks good.
459
00:28:06,249 --> 00:28:09,401
And so, um,
I was reassured...
460
00:28:19,377 --> 00:28:23,196
It's really important to
determine how many placentas,
461
00:28:23,230 --> 00:28:27,250
When you're pregnant
with twins, that if
there's only one placenta,
462
00:28:27,284 --> 00:28:28,952
Then it's a high-risk
pregnancy.
463
00:28:28,986 --> 00:28:32,621
So when I went in with
my concern on Monday,
464
00:28:32,655 --> 00:28:35,958
It should have been
immediately followed up
with an ultrasound,
465
00:28:35,992 --> 00:28:37,759
And, you know,
a stress test.
466
00:28:37,794 --> 00:28:40,545
And had they done that,
they would have seen
what was happening was
467
00:28:40,597 --> 00:28:42,547
The twin-to-twin
transfusion syndrome,
468
00:28:42,598 --> 00:28:47,518
Where one baby starts
getting everything, and the
other baby's getting nothing.
469
00:28:48,853 --> 00:28:52,355
Um, the next day, the
movement was less,
470
00:28:52,390 --> 00:28:56,475
And then the, the next day,
the movement was even less,
471
00:28:56,509 --> 00:28:59,395
And I became, I started to
become really concerned,
472
00:28:59,446 --> 00:29:05,016
And I called the doctor's
office. And, um, we're going
to see dr. Knolla's partner.
473
00:29:05,068 --> 00:29:07,286
He said "come on, let's
go do an ultrasound."
474
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:11,205
And he showed the
heartbeat of one of the
babies, and it was so slow,
475
00:29:11,289 --> 00:29:13,373
It was, like, almost
gonna stop.
476
00:29:13,408 --> 00:29:17,360
And he said, you know,
"there's not a lot of fluid
around one of the babies,
477
00:29:17,378 --> 00:29:19,713
"and we need to deliver
the babies right away."
478
00:29:37,663 --> 00:29:43,017
Colin suffered, uh,
severe brain damage to
all areas of the brain.
479
00:29:43,051 --> 00:29:46,236
They just said that it must
have been from a lack of
oxygen or, or whatever,
480
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,406
But they didn't really
say how it happened
or why it happened,
481
00:29:50,441 --> 00:29:53,943
Or give us any
further background,
482
00:29:53,994 --> 00:29:58,780
And I guess that kind of led
us to keep asking questions,
and keep looking for answers.
483
00:29:58,831 --> 00:30:03,085
Well, I've got one son that's
perfectly normal, he's a,
you know, a normal child,
484
00:30:03,119 --> 00:30:07,421
And I've got one son who has
severe brain damage, and they
were born at the same time.
485
00:30:07,456 --> 00:30:09,590
You know, what happened here?
486
00:30:09,625 --> 00:30:12,409
The gourleys also never
knew that before they went
to see dr. Knolla,
487
00:30:12,427 --> 00:30:14,295
She'd been in court before.
488
00:30:14,346 --> 00:30:17,515
Sued two other times,
both for malpractice.
489
00:30:17,548 --> 00:30:20,917
According to court
records in 1987 and 1989,
490
00:30:20,935 --> 00:30:24,054
Dr. Knolla was accused
of botching two pelvic
operations.
491
00:30:24,088 --> 00:30:28,256
It appears both cases
were settled secretly,
but legally, out of court.
492
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:35,813
At trial, it
came out that the injury was
caused by a lack of blood flow
493
00:30:35,864 --> 00:30:38,515
From the placenta
through the cord,
494
00:30:38,549 --> 00:30:41,836
And oxygen depletion
of the brain for five
to eight minutes
495
00:30:41,870 --> 00:30:44,270
Is what caused the damage.
496
00:30:44,288 --> 00:30:47,940
So not knowing,
I mean looking back,
497
00:30:47,958 --> 00:30:51,378
All that time was so
critical, you know.
498
00:30:51,412 --> 00:30:55,715
It was, I mean had they
just, you know, delivered
him right away...
499
00:30:55,749 --> 00:31:02,137
And the nurses testified
that the doctor had called
over to the hospital
500
00:31:02,171 --> 00:31:06,173
And they'd had the or
prepared and ready, but
the doctors weren't there.
501
00:31:06,225 --> 00:31:08,726
You know, you just start
thinking all these things,
502
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:13,147
And why didn't they do
an ultrasound on that
Monday, you know?
503
00:31:13,181 --> 00:31:14,664
And then, you know,
504
00:31:14,699 --> 00:31:19,736
I went through, for
about three years, of
"why didn't I just ask?"
505
00:31:19,770 --> 00:31:23,690
You know, I kind
of blamed myself,
506
00:31:23,724 --> 00:31:25,491
For a while, um,
507
00:31:27,443 --> 00:31:33,165
you know,
but you, you just want
to change what happened,
508
00:31:34,583 --> 00:31:37,035
And knowing that it
was preventable.
509
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:45,041
The economists at
the time said that he
would need $6 million,
510
00:31:45,092 --> 00:31:47,177
At the time of the trial,
511
00:31:47,211 --> 00:31:50,880
For him to have enough
money to take care of him
for the rest of his life.
512
00:31:53,683 --> 00:31:55,768
All right, here we go.
513
00:32:16,554 --> 00:32:22,007
In most instances
when you have a lawsuit where
a cap statute is involved,
514
00:32:22,042 --> 00:32:25,044
The jury doesn't know
that there's a cap statute.
515
00:32:25,078 --> 00:32:30,548
So if the jury renders an
award which is higher than
the cap statute,
516
00:32:30,583 --> 00:32:32,834
The trial judge,
after the trial,
517
00:32:32,868 --> 00:32:36,320
Then reduces the verdict
to the amount of the cap.
518
00:32:36,354 --> 00:32:40,891
And so it actually,
it takes away the
power of the jury
519
00:32:40,925 --> 00:32:45,728
To make a determination as to
what a fair and reasonable
amount should be for damages.
520
00:32:45,763 --> 00:32:47,930
That's in the bill of rights,
521
00:32:47,981 --> 00:32:51,149
That juries, not legislators,
522
00:32:51,184 --> 00:32:54,069
Get to determine questions
of fact in the court room,
523
00:32:54,103 --> 00:32:58,940
And one of the most important
issues of fact decided in
a civil jury trial
524
00:32:58,991 --> 00:33:03,661
Is what the appropriate
damages are to compensate
someone who has been injured
525
00:33:03,695 --> 00:33:06,614
Due to the fault of another,
you would agree with that?
526
00:33:06,665 --> 00:33:07,915
I don't
disagree with that.
527
00:33:07,949 --> 00:33:12,703
So, so why does the
u.S. Chamber spend
so much money
528
00:33:12,736 --> 00:33:17,257
Trying to convince us
that we know more
529
00:33:17,291 --> 00:33:20,909
About the value of
someone's injury or death
530
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,578
Than the people who
elected us to congress,
531
00:33:23,596 --> 00:33:27,098
Who go into jury boxes
all over this country,
532
00:33:27,132 --> 00:33:29,934
Under the seventh amendment
to the bill of rights?
533
00:33:29,968 --> 00:33:34,587
The judge ruled that
the cap here in nebraska
was unconstitutional,
534
00:33:34,605 --> 00:33:38,892
That, um, it violated your
rights to a jury trial.
535
00:33:38,926 --> 00:33:42,879
And then the doctors
and the insurance company
appealed the case
536
00:33:42,914 --> 00:33:44,980
To the nebraska supreme court,
537
00:33:45,031 --> 00:33:51,203
And the nebraska supreme
court came back and found
the cap constitutional.
538
00:33:51,238 --> 00:33:54,105
I've been involved in
the tort reform issues in
nebraska for a long time,
539
00:33:54,124 --> 00:33:57,441
But most recently as a
member of the professional
liability committee
540
00:33:57,459 --> 00:33:59,661
Of the nebraska medical
association,
541
00:33:59,712 --> 00:34:04,047
And subsequent to that,
the colorado physicians
insurance company,
542
00:34:04,082 --> 00:34:06,833
Which is the major malpractice
carrier for this region.
543
00:34:06,885 --> 00:34:10,770
In nebraska, we have a total
cap that includes all damages,
544
00:34:10,804 --> 00:34:13,356
Whether it be economic
or non-economic damages.
545
00:34:13,390 --> 00:34:17,510
So caps on damages can be
three kinds. There can be
caps on punitive damages
546
00:34:17,544 --> 00:34:18,961
In some states,
547
00:34:18,979 --> 00:34:21,746
There's caps on non-economic
damages in many states,
548
00:34:21,782 --> 00:34:25,400
And in a very, very few
states there could be caps
on the entire amount
549
00:34:25,434 --> 00:34:27,601
That a plaintiff can get.
550
00:34:27,635 --> 00:34:30,437
Economic damages, you can
think about those as your
out-of-pocket cost.
551
00:34:30,472 --> 00:34:33,289
They're your health care
expenses, your lost wages,
552
00:34:33,324 --> 00:34:39,529
And non-economic damages
are for pain, suffering, the
loss of enjoyment of life,
553
00:34:39,580 --> 00:34:43,316
The harm that's been done
to them that is difficult
to measure in money.
554
00:34:43,334 --> 00:34:45,418
But there needs to
be some reason,
555
00:34:45,452 --> 00:34:48,003
When it comes to
non-economic damages
in the system.
556
00:34:48,037 --> 00:34:54,710
And that's why I've proposed
a hard cap of $250,000 on
non-economic damages.
557
00:34:57,713 --> 00:35:02,983
I think a cap
on non-economic damages of
$250,000 makes some sense
558
00:35:03,017 --> 00:35:07,386
For most of the states in the
United States, 'cause there's
such a soft and squishy type
559
00:35:07,437 --> 00:35:11,640
Of, of, of, damages, and
difficult to determine, I
think that makes some sense.
560
00:35:11,674 --> 00:35:15,944
It's an arbitrary number
that bears no relationship
561
00:35:15,979 --> 00:35:19,148
To the harm that the
plaintiff suffered,
562
00:35:19,182 --> 00:35:24,469
And also, it has a
disproportionate impact on
people in certain situations.
563
00:35:24,503 --> 00:35:29,506
If you've been
blinded, permanently disabled,
disfigured in some way,
564
00:35:29,540 --> 00:35:33,327
Or you're a woman and your
reproductive system has
been harmed in some way,
565
00:35:33,361 --> 00:35:36,829
Those injuries are
non-economic in nature,
566
00:35:36,863 --> 00:35:39,548
And someone deserves to
be compensated for that.
567
00:35:39,583 --> 00:35:40,800
Okay, guys.
568
00:35:42,535 --> 00:35:44,519
Colin? Colin.
569
00:35:44,553 --> 00:35:45,503
Boo!
570
00:35:47,423 --> 00:35:50,308
They're identical twins,
but there's nothing really
very identical about 'em.
571
00:35:50,343 --> 00:35:53,877
I mean conner's a, pretty
much a normal boy,
572
00:35:53,895 --> 00:35:57,898
I mean he grew up and
played baseball and soccer,
573
00:35:57,933 --> 00:36:01,351
And, you know, just did
what boys normally do,
574
00:36:01,385 --> 00:36:03,988
And colin on the other
hand, he grew up,
575
00:36:04,022 --> 00:36:06,356
The first surgery, I think,
was when he was, was he one?
576
00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:07,607
One.
577
00:36:07,658 --> 00:36:09,525
One. He had, he
had to have eye surgery.
578
00:36:09,559 --> 00:36:13,496
There was optical nerve
damage in the brain injury.
579
00:36:13,530 --> 00:36:16,331
It was part of the
brain injury. So he, he
doesn't see real well.
580
00:36:16,366 --> 00:36:18,582
And then he started
having to go to therapy,
581
00:36:18,617 --> 00:36:20,953
When he was about two,
I think we started
taking him to therapy?
582
00:36:21,004 --> 00:36:22,336
Mmm-hmm.
583
00:36:22,371 --> 00:36:24,622
And that was
pretty intense,
584
00:36:24,673 --> 00:36:27,007
And they finally got
him to where he could
hold his head up,
585
00:36:27,074 --> 00:36:28,626
And then where
he could sit up.
586
00:36:28,677 --> 00:36:33,880
Then as he, he grew
older, he's obviously
mentally delayed.
587
00:36:33,914 --> 00:36:35,131
He's...
588
00:36:35,182 --> 00:36:37,466
He, he didn't even know
the days of the week.
589
00:36:40,137 --> 00:36:43,605
The jury heard the evidence,
and they said okay, well,
590
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:48,644
We're, 5.6 million, I think,
is probably what they, what
he needs, and that was close,
591
00:36:48,694 --> 00:36:50,761
We could've made that work.
592
00:36:50,779 --> 00:36:52,981
I mean, that would have been
enough money that he'd have
people to take care of him,
593
00:36:53,032 --> 00:36:56,583
If we're gone, or whatever.
He would have been okay
for the rest of his life.
594
00:36:56,617 --> 00:37:02,104
And then the cap comes
in and says, "no, no, no,
no, that's not right."
595
00:37:02,122 --> 00:37:04,106
You get this amount of
money and then, you know,
596
00:37:04,124 --> 00:37:06,826
Pay your lawyers out
of that, and pay your,
some medical bills,
597
00:37:06,877 --> 00:37:10,611
And so colin ends up
with a few hundred
thousand dollars.
598
00:37:10,629 --> 00:37:14,466
And so what happens is then,
he goes onto medicaid,
599
00:37:14,500 --> 00:37:18,720
And the taxpayers have to pay,
pick up the bill for his care.
600
00:37:18,754 --> 00:37:21,221
Dad. Dad!
601
00:37:21,256 --> 00:37:22,256
What?
602
00:37:22,290 --> 00:37:23,675
It's falling apart.
603
00:37:23,725 --> 00:37:25,959
It is. Is it getting
your hand all dirty?
604
00:37:26,011 --> 00:37:27,861
No.
605
00:37:27,896 --> 00:37:30,147
Oh, it is broke, look at that.
606
00:37:30,181 --> 00:37:34,934
It's not just an
economic need, there are
moral issues involved here.
607
00:37:34,985 --> 00:37:39,404
And what a cap does is,
it relieves the wrongdoer,
often a company,
608
00:37:39,473 --> 00:37:42,090
Or a health care provider,
609
00:37:42,125 --> 00:37:46,660
Of the responsibility
they have for the damage
that they caused.
610
00:37:46,695 --> 00:37:49,247
Medical groups like the
nebraska medical association
611
00:37:49,281 --> 00:37:51,982
Applauded the nebraska supreme
court's decision Friday.
612
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,652
They say it will keep
malpractice insurance
costs down for doctors,
613
00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:58,121
And that, in turn, will
keep down medical costs.
614
00:37:58,155 --> 00:38:00,490
When states enact
caps on damages,
615
00:38:00,508 --> 00:38:04,643
Doctors' insurance premiums
typically do not go down.
616
00:38:04,677 --> 00:38:09,114
And it's
interesting that when these
various limitations
617
00:38:09,149 --> 00:38:11,967
Are enacted in various states,
618
00:38:12,017 --> 00:38:16,854
There's never a requirement
that the insurance companies
pass any savings along
619
00:38:16,889 --> 00:38:18,556
To the policy holder.
620
00:38:18,607 --> 00:38:21,309
The insurance companies
are charging still,
I think, a lot of money
621
00:38:21,343 --> 00:38:25,479
To doctors in nebraska, and
they're not having to pay out
very much money in nebraska.
622
00:38:25,513 --> 00:38:28,982
So what are they,
they're making, it's
their little pot of gold.
623
00:38:29,016 --> 00:38:31,484
The insurance industry says,
624
00:38:31,519 --> 00:38:34,653
"well don't look at us,
it's not our fault that
rates are going up.
625
00:38:34,687 --> 00:38:39,458
"it's all those juries and
judges and lawyers and, and
victims that are suing us.
626
00:38:39,492 --> 00:38:41,409
"it's all their fault."
627
00:38:41,460 --> 00:38:45,463
Those excessive jury
awards cost us all money,
628
00:38:45,498 --> 00:38:49,133
And it's part of why, rising,
why there's rising costs, uh,
629
00:38:49,167 --> 00:38:51,919
In the health care,
health care system.
630
00:38:51,970 --> 00:38:55,255
If it was true that medical
malpractice litigation
631
00:38:55,306 --> 00:38:56,806
Actually drove up
health care cost,
632
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,393
Then we would expect
that since 2003, when
basically nobody,
633
00:39:00,427 --> 00:39:04,564
No patient was allowed to
hold a doctor or hospital
accountable anymore, in texas,
634
00:39:04,598 --> 00:39:08,433
We would expect that health
care costs, heath care
spending would go down.
635
00:39:08,484 --> 00:39:09,885
Well, in fact, the
opposite is true.
636
00:39:09,919 --> 00:39:12,270
Health care spending has
been going up in texas,
637
00:39:12,321 --> 00:39:14,222
At a rate higher than
the national average
638
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:17,525
Since we restricted
patients' rights to
access the courthouse.
639
00:39:17,559 --> 00:39:20,578
So, the myth just doesn't
jive with reality.
640
00:39:22,730 --> 00:39:27,951
Over these years there's
a whole lot of things that
I want to say about caps,
641
00:39:28,002 --> 00:39:30,702
And, and to say just
how they've affected us
642
00:39:30,736 --> 00:39:33,755
Doesn't really, um,
643
00:39:33,790 --> 00:39:36,175
I don't know, it doesn't
really hit the nail on
the head so much.
644
00:39:36,209 --> 00:39:38,627
I mean, it affected us
obviously, I mean we have a,
645
00:39:38,678 --> 00:39:45,216
We have a, a son who will
never be able to grow up
and earn his own living,
646
00:39:45,250 --> 00:39:47,917
Never go off to college,
never have his own family.
647
00:39:47,935 --> 00:39:50,920
I mean, he'll require care
for the rest of his life.
648
00:39:50,938 --> 00:39:53,557
And so, how does
the cap affect you?
649
00:39:53,591 --> 00:39:57,894
It, it makes his
future unknown.
650
00:39:57,928 --> 00:40:03,582
I mean, you have this person
that you're responsible for,
and that you love,
651
00:40:03,617 --> 00:40:08,870
That you don't know, if
you're gone, what's going
to happen to him.
652
00:40:11,574 --> 00:40:15,576
I mean, if it's your
child, take your child,
and say you're gone,
653
00:40:15,610 --> 00:40:18,629
And give him to the state,
and let the state do whatever
they want with him.
654
00:40:18,663 --> 00:40:20,414
And, is that what you
want for your child?
655
00:40:21,716 --> 00:40:23,833
That's not what I
want for my child,
656
00:40:23,884 --> 00:40:27,136
Especially when your child
can't ever grow up and take
care of themselves.
657
00:40:27,171 --> 00:40:30,122
They're relying on people
to take care of them.
658
00:40:31,457 --> 00:40:33,391
So, that's how the
cap affects you.
659
00:40:34,293 --> 00:40:35,427
I know that.
660
00:40:35,461 --> 00:40:36,595
Do you want
to come to the table?
661
00:40:36,629 --> 00:40:38,013
No.
662
00:40:38,064 --> 00:40:40,649
In many
respects, these laws violate
663
00:40:40,683 --> 00:40:43,601
State constitutional
provisions that protect
people's rights.
664
00:40:43,635 --> 00:40:49,089
And, in order to protect
those new laws against
challenge in the courts,
665
00:40:49,124 --> 00:40:52,358
The business community decided
that it was important to them
666
00:40:52,409 --> 00:40:55,144
To stack the deck
in their favor,
667
00:40:55,162 --> 00:40:58,281
Um, with the supreme
courts of various states.
668
00:40:58,315 --> 00:41:01,333
They wanted their
own set of judges who
would be deciding
669
00:41:01,368 --> 00:41:05,369
Whether these
restrictions on people's
rights would be upheld.
670
00:41:22,820 --> 00:41:24,603
Watch out, snick.
Watch out, snickers.
671
00:41:28,341 --> 00:41:31,727
My grisham books.
Some of them, anyway.
672
00:41:33,530 --> 00:41:35,897
When was this, this was
written, uh, two years ago,
673
00:41:35,948 --> 00:41:38,116
John decided to
write the appeal.
674
00:41:38,150 --> 00:41:42,319
He talked to me about it,
'cause he wanted me
to help him get the,
675
00:41:42,353 --> 00:41:44,021
Get the details
right in the book.
676
00:41:44,039 --> 00:41:46,206
He likes the books
to be accurate.
677
00:41:46,241 --> 00:41:50,910
It's about, it's interesting,
because it's about uh, it sort
of tracks what I went through.
678
00:41:50,961 --> 00:41:54,196
It's about a mississippi
supreme court justice
running for re-election,
679
00:41:54,214 --> 00:41:59,168
And, uh, being, uh, attacked
by these out-of-state big
business interest groups
680
00:41:59,202 --> 00:42:03,221
That are coming in, trying
to defeat the incumbent
supreme court justice,
681
00:42:03,256 --> 00:42:07,841
So that they can get their
corporate interests on the,
um, you know, on the court.
682
00:42:07,875 --> 00:42:09,727
So, yeah.
683
00:42:12,147 --> 00:42:15,481
As the
legislature would try to
effect tort reform,
684
00:42:15,516 --> 00:42:16,733
If it did get into law,
685
00:42:16,767 --> 00:42:19,052
Then it came down to
the courts to decide
686
00:42:19,070 --> 00:42:21,154
Whether or not that law
was constitutional.
687
00:42:21,188 --> 00:42:23,556
And, there started to be
decisions around the country
688
00:42:23,574 --> 00:42:26,492
That said that these laws
were not constitutional,
that they went too far.
689
00:42:26,527 --> 00:42:29,161
So then,
the businesses decide,
690
00:42:29,195 --> 00:42:31,280
Well we can't pass those laws,
691
00:42:31,331 --> 00:42:35,200
What we can do is to
try and have judges who
decide these cases
692
00:42:35,234 --> 00:42:38,035
Be really conservative,
business-oriented judges.
693
00:42:38,069 --> 00:42:41,739
Karl rove developed
this plan, and worked with
the chamber of commerce
694
00:42:41,757 --> 00:42:46,627
To influence the outcome
of key judicial races
around the country.
695
00:42:46,677 --> 00:42:48,411
They put in place a pretty
aggressive campaign,
696
00:42:48,429 --> 00:42:51,247
Ranking which states are most
important for them to be in,
697
00:42:51,282 --> 00:42:55,135
And putting tens of millions
of dollars a year into these
elections that often had
698
00:42:55,185 --> 00:42:57,185
Tiny amounts of money.
699
00:42:57,220 --> 00:43:01,422
I started getting
calls from karl in the
middle-to-late 1980s,
700
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:05,593
As he began his
work representing,
at the beginning,
701
00:43:05,610 --> 00:43:08,562
State supreme court
candidates in texas.
702
00:43:08,596 --> 00:43:10,947
Rove was able to put together
a franchise, basically,
703
00:43:10,982 --> 00:43:15,435
To elect republicans who
he was representing,
704
00:43:15,453 --> 00:43:19,573
With a guarantee that
they would have
well-financed races,
705
00:43:19,607 --> 00:43:24,160
And business interests got
supreme court judges who were
going to rule their way
706
00:43:24,244 --> 00:43:27,545
On business cases,
and on tort cases.
707
00:43:27,580 --> 00:43:32,784
By the time you reach
the 1990s, this core of
conservative, republican,
708
00:43:32,802 --> 00:43:34,619
Tort-minded judges
709
00:43:34,637 --> 00:43:39,690
Were ruling overwhelmingly
for some of the largest
corporate interests in texas.
710
00:43:45,180 --> 00:43:48,548
It's a model that they
used, and they exported
to other states.
711
00:43:48,582 --> 00:43:50,016
It's a good payoff.
712
00:43:50,067 --> 00:43:53,085
It's a good payoff. You put
money in a judicial race, uh,
713
00:43:53,119 --> 00:43:57,522
You spend $100,000 to help
uh, uh, challenge a, a
judicial candidate,
714
00:43:57,573 --> 00:44:00,141
It can have literally
a million dollar impact
on your company.
715
00:44:00,159 --> 00:44:04,495
And it seems that that's
happening more and more
throughout the country.
716
00:44:04,529 --> 00:44:09,650
That, uh, our state supreme
courts are reversing civil
juries in this country
717
00:44:09,685 --> 00:44:12,502
At an unprecedented level,
718
00:44:12,536 --> 00:44:15,505
After seeing the gifts
of millions of dollars.
719
00:44:15,589 --> 00:44:18,990
Last week, the supreme court
reversed a century of law
720
00:44:19,008 --> 00:44:22,544
That I believe will open
the floodgates for
special interests,
721
00:44:22,595 --> 00:44:24,997
Including foreign
corporations,
722
00:44:25,031 --> 00:44:27,498
To spend without
limit in our elections.
723
00:44:40,378 --> 00:44:44,798
If you get five
people, in our state we have
nine, so the majority is five,
724
00:44:44,832 --> 00:44:50,686
You get five judges that
have that persuasion to be
always with the doctors,
725
00:44:50,704 --> 00:44:53,021
Or be always with
the corporations,
726
00:44:53,055 --> 00:44:55,490
You have court reform.
727
00:44:55,524 --> 00:45:00,061
And that is more deadly
than tort reform ever
thought about being.
728
00:45:00,096 --> 00:45:03,430
That's what this karl rove
chamber is about,
729
00:45:03,465 --> 00:45:05,883
And they came into
these southern states,
730
00:45:05,917 --> 00:45:09,636
And mississippi was a good
state to take on, because
it's a small state,
731
00:45:09,671 --> 00:45:11,505
Not much money,
732
00:45:11,539 --> 00:45:15,875
And u.S. Chamber put in
candidates that were
friendly towards them,
733
00:45:15,893 --> 00:45:20,562
And they were able to elect
all of them except for one,
734
00:45:20,596 --> 00:45:22,849
And that was
oliver diaz's election.
735
00:45:24,650 --> 00:45:27,017
The appeal
was a book I published,
736
00:45:27,051 --> 00:45:31,221
It's a novel, it's
completely fictional, and
it's completely true.
737
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:36,777
Uh, it's the story of the, uh,
purchasing of a supreme court
seat in mississippi.
738
00:45:36,828 --> 00:45:40,497
I felt like I kind of lived
through it with oliver,
739
00:45:40,531 --> 00:45:43,566
You know, knowing, because
he was my friend, knowing
what he had gone through.
740
00:45:51,674 --> 00:45:54,960
I was born and raised
in biloxi, mississippi.
741
00:45:55,011 --> 00:45:58,896
Lived there all of
my life, and then
went to law school,
742
00:45:58,930 --> 00:46:02,916
And after law school,
came back home and started
practicing law there,
743
00:46:02,934 --> 00:46:08,087
And in 1987 was elected
to the mississippi house
of representatives
744
00:46:08,105 --> 00:46:10,523
And, and started a career
in politics at that point.
745
00:46:10,557 --> 00:46:12,358
I was his campaign
manager.
746
00:46:22,251 --> 00:46:26,287
You had these interest
groups that were interested
in electing judges
747
00:46:26,322 --> 00:46:28,823
That they deemed to
be pro-business.
748
00:46:28,874 --> 00:46:32,376
I was not deemed
to be pro-business,
749
00:46:32,410 --> 00:46:36,078
And the u.S. Chamber
mounted a very, very large
and expensive campaign
750
00:46:36,112 --> 00:46:38,247
Against me in 2000.
751
00:46:38,282 --> 00:46:41,300
Diaz
even voted to overturn
a cocaine conviction
752
00:46:41,335 --> 00:46:44,419
Because evidence of a prior
cocaine sale was allowed.
753
00:46:44,453 --> 00:46:47,874
Oliver diaz. Very
bad judgment.
754
00:46:47,908 --> 00:46:51,076
The negative ads are still
running, and that, that part
has not changed,
755
00:46:51,110 --> 00:46:53,595
The, the ads are still
on the television.
756
00:46:53,629 --> 00:46:54,979
It's, it's a terrible
situation.
757
00:46:55,063 --> 00:46:56,847
It is demeaning to the office.
758
00:46:56,898 --> 00:47:01,735
It is improper, it should not
have happened. I've, I've told
judge diaz that I've, uh,
759
00:47:01,770 --> 00:47:03,436
Done all I can do to
get those stopped.
760
00:47:03,470 --> 00:47:05,471
I don't like it.
761
00:47:05,489 --> 00:47:07,490
My opponent, who
was supported by the
u.S. Chamber of commerce,
762
00:47:07,525 --> 00:47:11,611
He had probably
a million dollars
spent on his behalf,
763
00:47:11,645 --> 00:47:12,945
Which was not even...
Oh,
it was more.
764
00:47:12,979 --> 00:47:14,312
Yeah, it was more than
a million dollars,
765
00:47:14,330 --> 00:47:17,165
Spent on his behalf, but
it wasn't in his name,
766
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,418
And he didn't report that on
his campaign finance reports.
767
00:47:20,452 --> 00:47:23,487
You know,
people think, "oh, the
u.S. Chamber of commerce,"
768
00:47:23,505 --> 00:47:28,292
They think of it
representing small chambers
on a national scale.
769
00:47:28,326 --> 00:47:31,512
That really isn't what the
u.S. Chamber of commerce is.
770
00:47:31,547 --> 00:47:33,096
So what's the u.S.
Chamber of commerce?
771
00:47:33,130 --> 00:47:35,498
um, I'm
not really sure.
772
00:47:35,516 --> 00:47:37,499
Something dealing with
the government.
773
00:47:37,517 --> 00:47:43,856
It was my understanding that
it was a government agency,
but I'm not sure of that.
774
00:47:43,890 --> 00:47:49,227
Probably they are
getting engaged in,
hmm, managing of...
775
00:47:50,112 --> 00:47:51,846
something.
776
00:47:51,864 --> 00:47:55,532
Trade? Do they engage in
managing trade throughout
the United States?
777
00:47:55,567 --> 00:47:56,767
I'd go with that.
778
00:48:18,537 --> 00:48:23,307
The u.S. Chamber of
commerce became a very,
very important player
779
00:48:23,341 --> 00:48:25,225
In the tort reform movement,
780
00:48:25,260 --> 00:48:30,147
And they have now been
shown to be funneling money
into judicial campaigns.
781
00:48:30,181 --> 00:48:32,932
Here's, here's the way that
campaigns happen, okay?
782
00:48:32,967 --> 00:48:38,219
You have your doctors,
hospitals, manufactures,
insurance companies,
783
00:48:38,237 --> 00:48:41,156
You got all those folks
kind of quarterbacked by
the chamber of commerce.
784
00:48:41,190 --> 00:48:42,557
That's where the money is.
785
00:48:42,575 --> 00:48:45,344
There's nobody on the other
side except for trial lawyers,
786
00:48:45,378 --> 00:48:49,897
Because the trial lawyers
know the law, and they know
what's going to happen
787
00:48:49,915 --> 00:48:51,782
If these judges are elected.
788
00:48:51,833 --> 00:48:55,036
We were playing by a certain
set of rules, there were
campaign finance laws
789
00:48:55,070 --> 00:48:58,839
That you had to know where
the money was coming from,
790
00:48:58,873 --> 00:49:02,575
And there were limits on
some of the amounts of
money by who gave it.
791
00:49:02,593 --> 00:49:05,628
The trial lawyers are
limited as to how much
money they can put in.
792
00:49:05,679 --> 00:49:10,966
If you give more than
$5000, a judge can't
sit on your case.
793
00:49:11,017 --> 00:49:13,351
Whereas if the money
comes from the chamber,
794
00:49:13,385 --> 00:49:15,520
All that money was packaged
into a large group,
795
00:49:15,554 --> 00:49:19,941
And there's no way
that you can see who it
were that contributes.
796
00:49:19,975 --> 00:49:22,060
The chamber puts
in millions of dollars
into state races,
797
00:49:22,094 --> 00:49:23,777
Through some kind
of a front group.
798
00:49:23,811 --> 00:49:27,931
You know, citizens
for a strong ohio, or
partnership for ohio,
799
00:49:27,949 --> 00:49:32,318
Groups that sound like they're
citizens groups, but in fact
are really business groups,
800
00:49:32,369 --> 00:49:33,953
Hiding behind a false veneer.
801
00:49:33,987 --> 00:49:36,372
We're doing much, much
better in courts,
802
00:49:36,406 --> 00:49:41,127
And in the election of,
of judges to the state
supreme courts,
803
00:49:41,161 --> 00:49:44,279
And we're in those races.
We'll spend $19 million
804
00:49:46,215 --> 00:49:49,299
In election of those judges
and state attorneys general
in this next election.
805
00:49:55,889 --> 00:50:00,459
They spent so much money
against us, they would run
almost every 15 to 20 minutes
806
00:50:00,477 --> 00:50:02,845
On tv, on our local station.
807
00:50:02,896 --> 00:50:06,398
So we got to where we just
didn't have the tvs on, and
all of a sudden one morning...
808
00:50:06,432 --> 00:50:07,632
We didn't want
the kids to see
809
00:50:07,650 --> 00:50:09,434
These horrible ads.
We didn't want
them to see 'em,
810
00:50:09,468 --> 00:50:12,571
'cause some of the ads
actually had big money bags
being thrown up on a bench,
811
00:50:12,605 --> 00:50:15,357
That he was bought
and paid for.
812
00:50:15,408 --> 00:50:18,492
Diaz's
campaign took over $100,000
813
00:50:18,527 --> 00:50:20,161
From personal
injury lawyers...
814
00:50:20,195 --> 00:50:23,163
And so one morning we hear,
you know, just "whoo-hoo!"
815
00:50:23,197 --> 00:50:26,700
And our daughter is just,
like, cheering downstairs,
and we come down, and um,
816
00:50:26,751 --> 00:50:29,285
she's like,
"we're rich, we're rich!"
817
00:50:29,319 --> 00:50:33,206
And she'd seen the ad
with the big bags of money,
you know, on the bench,
818
00:50:33,257 --> 00:50:34,790
And her daddy's name.
819
00:50:34,824 --> 00:50:37,676
The game plan was to
pick out a justice,
820
00:50:37,711 --> 00:50:40,662
Try to make that justice
look soft on crime,
821
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:45,133
Take snippets from decisions
that the justice had made,
822
00:50:45,167 --> 00:50:50,804
Manipulate those decisions
to make them seem absolutely
outrageous and ridiculous,
823
00:50:50,838 --> 00:50:55,559
And, uh, spend a lot of
money to get that message
out to the voters.
824
00:50:55,610 --> 00:51:00,013
The amount of money that's
spent on television in a
political campaign
825
00:51:00,031 --> 00:51:02,031
Has an enormous effect
on the outcome.
826
00:51:02,065 --> 00:51:03,532
And in fact, in 2000,
827
00:51:03,567 --> 00:51:07,570
The statistics showed
that the side that
spent the most money
828
00:51:07,621 --> 00:51:10,406
Won about 90% of the time.
829
00:51:17,245 --> 00:51:19,913
We had two weeks until,
um, we had to run
again for a run-off,
830
00:51:19,965 --> 00:51:24,050
And we find out that
the u.S. Chamber
831
00:51:24,084 --> 00:51:27,887
Had literally almost purchased
all of the available airtime,
832
00:51:27,921 --> 00:51:31,057
That there was available
from jackson to
biloxi, mississippi.
833
00:51:31,091 --> 00:51:35,177
And what we had to do at the
time was actually take out
loans to finance the campaign,
834
00:51:35,211 --> 00:51:38,979
And, um, if you're familiar
with banking at all, um,
835
00:51:39,014 --> 00:51:44,402
They generally don't like
to loan money to folks
who may lose an election,
836
00:51:44,437 --> 00:51:48,355
So you have to have
somebody with money that
co-signs on your behalf,
837
00:51:48,389 --> 00:51:53,559
And my very good friend
paul minor was willing to step
up and sign a loan at the bank
838
00:51:53,577 --> 00:51:57,864
To allow us to compete with
the u.S. Chamber's ads that
were running at the time.
839
00:51:57,897 --> 00:52:00,399
Keith starrett's special
interest group from
washington, dc
840
00:52:00,417 --> 00:52:03,068
Recently started attacking
me, and distorting my record,
841
00:52:03,086 --> 00:52:06,705
I refuse to be negative, but
I must defend my record.
842
00:52:06,739 --> 00:52:12,176
I still don't know how we did
it to this very day, but we
actually won that election.
843
00:52:12,211 --> 00:52:16,464
I really honestly thought
when we won and celebrated
that election
844
00:52:16,548 --> 00:52:17,632
We had thought that
was a good day.
845
00:52:17,666 --> 00:52:20,183
It turned out to be, probably
846
00:52:20,218 --> 00:52:22,953
one of the
worst days of our life,
the election was.
847
00:52:25,739 --> 00:52:28,941
Federal prosecutors
decided to investigate me
848
00:52:28,975 --> 00:52:33,762
And used, uh, the loans
that paul minor had
co-signed at the bank,
849
00:52:33,780 --> 00:52:38,316
And called that a bribe,
and said that he'd
bribed me as a judge.
850
00:52:38,350 --> 00:52:41,035
But what's really
interesting about that is,
851
00:52:41,070 --> 00:52:46,323
I never voted for a single
case in which paul minor,
or his law firm,
852
00:52:46,374 --> 00:52:48,342
Or anybody he was
associated with,
853
00:52:48,376 --> 00:52:52,111
Had brought before the
supreme court because
of our friendship.
854
00:52:52,129 --> 00:52:55,798
And then that
summer oliver was indicted,
855
00:52:55,833 --> 00:52:59,118
And it just kind of
started spiraling
downhill from there.
856
00:52:59,136 --> 00:53:03,454
Um, I almost kind of
didn't believe oliver.
857
00:53:03,472 --> 00:53:06,508
I said there has to be
something here, you're
not telling me the truth.
858
00:53:06,559 --> 00:53:09,944
They wouldn't bring
these charges against
us and do this.
859
00:53:09,978 --> 00:53:11,680
All these counts,
860
00:53:11,731 --> 00:53:14,231
You're facing a hundred
and some years in the
federal penitentiary,
861
00:53:14,266 --> 00:53:15,482
We have two...
862
00:53:15,517 --> 00:53:17,017
millions of dollars in fines.
863
00:53:17,052 --> 00:53:18,235
Millions of
dollars in fines,
864
00:53:18,270 --> 00:53:20,187
We have two small children...
865
00:53:20,238 --> 00:53:22,939
Oliver diaz says
the charges against him
are groundless,
866
00:53:22,973 --> 00:53:26,241
Because he withdrew from
all cases involving
paul minor.
867
00:53:26,276 --> 00:53:29,962
Diaz is on leave from
the supreme court until
the case is resolved.
868
00:53:29,996 --> 00:53:32,998
The decision
to prosecute justice diaz
869
00:53:33,032 --> 00:53:36,617
May have been motivated
by tort reform politics.
870
00:53:36,651 --> 00:53:40,671
It may have been motivated
by an effort to
871
00:53:40,706 --> 00:53:43,006
Remove justice diaz
from the supreme court
872
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:47,878
Where he often voted
for ordinary citizens
and against corporations,
873
00:53:47,929 --> 00:53:53,099
But it certainly was not
a prosecution that was
based on the evidence,
874
00:53:53,134 --> 00:53:56,219
Because the evidence
did not support it.
875
00:53:56,269 --> 00:54:00,472
Do you think
that oliver was prosecuted
for political reasons?
876
00:54:00,506 --> 00:54:03,776
sure. I don't think
there's any doubt about that.
877
00:54:03,810 --> 00:54:05,026
We thought
we were just targeted,
878
00:54:05,060 --> 00:54:06,110
And this was just us,
879
00:54:06,145 --> 00:54:08,729
And this political
prosecution was just us.
880
00:54:08,780 --> 00:54:11,782
We later found out
that this happened
all over the country,
881
00:54:11,816 --> 00:54:18,855
And those other judges were,
that won or were successful,
were also targeted.
882
00:54:18,873 --> 00:54:22,992
After a three month
trial, I was completely
acquitted of all charges.
883
00:54:23,026 --> 00:54:26,878
The jury returned
not guilty verdicts
on everything,
884
00:54:26,913 --> 00:54:30,333
But, uh, three days
after my trial,
885
00:54:30,366 --> 00:54:34,002
I was re-indicted on
tax evasion charges.
886
00:54:34,036 --> 00:54:36,671
So I had to go through
another federal trial
887
00:54:36,705 --> 00:54:38,639
After that first
three-month trial,
888
00:54:38,674 --> 00:54:42,009
And had a week-long trial
this time on tax charges,
889
00:54:42,043 --> 00:54:45,762
And after a 15-minute
deliberation time by the jury,
890
00:54:45,813 --> 00:54:48,765
I was fully acquitted
a second time.
891
00:54:48,799 --> 00:54:50,984
I was finally cleared to
return to the bench,
892
00:54:51,018 --> 00:54:57,105
But not till after I had
been removed from the bench
for almost three years.
893
00:54:57,156 --> 00:55:00,275
So what they
weren't able to do
through an election,
894
00:55:00,326 --> 00:55:04,662
They were able to do
with a federal prosecution,
a federal investigation,
895
00:55:04,696 --> 00:55:06,331
Uh, to keep me
off the bench,
896
00:55:06,365 --> 00:55:09,282
Uh, to ruin my reputation,
897
00:55:09,333 --> 00:55:13,420
To make it that, uh,
I probably wouldn't
be able to
898
00:55:13,454 --> 00:55:16,423
Be elected again to the
mississippi supreme court.
899
00:55:16,457 --> 00:55:20,510
Some other people were elected
who were considered to be
much more business-friendly,
900
00:55:20,543 --> 00:55:24,263
Uh, justices then had
served on the court in
the years past,
901
00:55:24,297 --> 00:55:26,548
And it really, really
did alter things.
902
00:55:26,582 --> 00:55:29,051
In mississippi after the,
the courts swung,
903
00:55:29,084 --> 00:55:33,338
I think they went, like,
two years without upholding
a plaintiff verdict.
904
00:55:33,372 --> 00:55:35,606
You know, you might be able
to win with the jury,
905
00:55:35,641 --> 00:55:39,977
But you have no hope
of having that, that verdict
sustained by the courts.
906
00:55:52,189 --> 00:55:55,574
I think the, sort of, the
taint of these charges,
907
00:55:55,607 --> 00:55:57,792
And sort of the residue
of all of that,
908
00:55:57,827 --> 00:56:00,712
And the fact that some
people in the public
simply assumed
909
00:56:00,746 --> 00:56:02,831
He was guilty because
he was charged of it,
910
00:56:02,915 --> 00:56:04,799
Caused him to be
defeated for re-election.
911
00:56:04,834 --> 00:56:10,170
Also, um, I was not able to,
to raise the funds to,
to compete.
912
00:56:10,221 --> 00:56:14,290
I raised about a quarter of
the amount that I'd raised
in my first election.
913
00:56:14,308 --> 00:56:16,759
If two or three million
dollars is being spent,
914
00:56:16,793 --> 00:56:18,978
Or ten million dollars
is being spent,
915
00:56:19,013 --> 00:56:21,313
The way it's going now,
ten years from now
916
00:56:21,347 --> 00:56:24,466
They'll be spending a
hundred million dollars
on judicial elections.
917
00:56:24,484 --> 00:56:31,305
And it's not really a good
way to have the system work.
918
00:56:31,323 --> 00:56:34,825
And there's many people in
the business community who
don't agree with me on that.
919
00:57:00,382 --> 00:57:02,832
Can you tell us
why you're here today
at this reform summit?
920
00:57:02,850 --> 00:57:07,687
We're here to receive
the leadership
achievement award.
921
00:57:07,722 --> 00:57:09,672
Oh, for what?
922
00:57:09,690 --> 00:57:13,592
For passing a 208-page
civil justice reform law
in oklahoma,
923
00:57:13,627 --> 00:57:17,396
That is going to take
the bull's-eye off the back
of business in our state.
924
00:57:17,447 --> 00:57:19,365
What does that
mean exactly?
925
00:57:19,399 --> 00:57:21,350
It means that we're
protecting our businesses
from frivolous lawsuits.
926
00:57:21,368 --> 00:57:23,652
And do you think
there are a lot of
frivolous lawsuits?
927
00:57:23,685 --> 00:57:27,688
There are, and we think that
there's a definite cost to
the medical profession
928
00:57:27,740 --> 00:57:29,456
And the cost of doing business
929
00:57:29,491 --> 00:57:30,858
Where we have to protect that,
930
00:57:30,876 --> 00:57:33,693
Companies that are now
doing business
in our country
931
00:57:33,711 --> 00:57:36,028
From that kind
of invasiveness.
932
00:57:36,046 --> 00:57:37,748
And so who brings these
frivolous lawsuits?
933
00:57:37,799 --> 00:57:41,250
All kinds of people.
People that are
jackpot-justice oriented.
934
00:57:41,301 --> 00:57:43,869
Do you think
tort reform is a good thing
for the american public?
935
00:57:43,887 --> 00:57:45,988
Without a doubt.
Why, why is that?
936
00:57:46,023 --> 00:57:50,208
There's an incredible amount
of frivolous lawsuits.
937
00:57:50,226 --> 00:57:57,314
It directly impacts
everything from
health care to, um,
938
00:57:57,349 --> 00:58:01,769
You know, prices in stores,
and small businesses.
939
00:58:01,803 --> 00:58:03,070
It's extremely important.
940
00:58:03,105 --> 00:58:05,405
And where do you work,
or what do you do?
941
00:58:05,439 --> 00:58:08,825
Uh, I am a, I'm a lawyer.
Okay, and with a
law firm or...
942
00:58:08,859 --> 00:58:10,109
No, in-house counsel.
943
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:11,444
Oh, for what kind
of company you work?
944
00:58:11,495 --> 00:58:13,328
Uh, pfizer pharmaceuticals.
945
00:58:13,364 --> 00:58:16,498
I think we've just
gone too far.
Too much litigation.
946
00:58:16,533 --> 00:58:19,584
And so who,
who benefits from
having less litigation?
947
00:58:19,618 --> 00:58:22,204
Everybody, except
the trial lawyers.
948
00:58:22,238 --> 00:58:23,838
And how do you...
Do you want to, like,
949
00:58:23,872 --> 00:58:26,407
Eliminate people's rights
to go to the court system?
950
00:58:26,425 --> 00:58:27,909
I want to give people...
951
00:58:27,943 --> 00:58:31,011
My own preference would
be to give people
rights to sign contracts
952
00:58:31,045 --> 00:58:32,879
When they buy products
and so forth,
953
00:58:32,913 --> 00:58:35,715
So the contracts
would determine
what rights they had.
954
00:58:35,750 --> 00:58:38,935
Are these things like
the arbitration clauses
that are in contracts,
955
00:58:38,970 --> 00:58:40,253
Like the mandatory
arbitration clauses?
956
00:58:40,271 --> 00:58:43,140
Yeah, those are useful
clauses, I believe.
957
00:58:43,191 --> 00:58:46,758
Sometimes, um, litigation
is harmful to all of us.
958
00:58:46,776 --> 00:58:50,696
And there are better means
to resolve disputes
than through the courts.
959
00:58:50,730 --> 00:58:52,480
You mentioned
a few of them already.
960
00:58:52,531 --> 00:58:55,566
Arbitration is a very
good one, and there
are lots of others.
961
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:57,268
Uh, but I hope
you'll excuse me,
I do have to run now.
962
00:58:57,286 --> 00:58:59,870
No problem, thank you
so much, I appreciate it.
963
00:59:14,051 --> 00:59:15,251
Did she get
any on her head?
964
00:59:15,285 --> 00:59:17,552
Yes.
965
00:59:17,587 --> 00:59:20,088
That doesn't go on
your head, baby girl!
966
00:59:21,057 --> 00:59:22,339
Silly.
967
00:59:22,390 --> 00:59:26,260
You thirsty?
You want a drink, hon?
968
00:59:26,294 --> 00:59:27,561
Oh, yeah, why not.
969
00:59:27,596 --> 00:59:29,463
Chocolate milk, coke,
orange juice, milk?
970
00:59:31,765 --> 00:59:34,201
Hmm, I'll have coke.
971
00:59:34,236 --> 00:59:36,686
A coke for breakfast, huh?
Uh-huh.
972
00:59:36,737 --> 00:59:37,904
All right.
973
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:43,325
Here you go, I'm gonna
make me an orange juice.
974
00:59:43,359 --> 00:59:46,278
I had
never heard of a mandatory
arbitration clause
975
00:59:46,312 --> 00:59:51,166
Before I had signed
my employment contract
with halliburton.
976
00:59:51,201 --> 00:59:53,834
I worked for halliburton
in houston,
977
00:59:53,869 --> 00:59:58,488
And, um, I wanted to help
operation iraqi freedom.
978
00:59:58,506 --> 01:00:02,209
My mom was very sick
at home, so I needed
to help support her.
979
01:00:02,260 --> 01:00:05,161
They say it's more likely
that you'd get in a car wreck
980
01:00:05,179 --> 01:00:08,130
Than something
happening to you in iraq.
981
01:00:08,165 --> 01:00:12,668
So as a 19-year-old girl,
you believe your elders,
982
01:00:12,719 --> 01:00:17,004
And you think that
that's probably true, so...
983
01:00:17,022 --> 01:00:19,374
Four years ago
at the age of 19,
984
01:00:19,408 --> 01:00:23,027
Ms. Jamie leigh jones
signed a contract to
985
01:00:23,062 --> 01:00:27,981
Become an employee of kbr,
then a halliburton subsidiary.
986
01:00:28,015 --> 01:00:29,816
That contract
contained a clause
987
01:00:29,850 --> 01:00:36,239
Which required her to
arbitrate any future dispute
against her employer.
988
01:00:36,290 --> 01:00:40,742
This means it would force
her to give up her right
to seek redress
989
01:00:40,793 --> 01:00:43,212
In court if she was wronged.
990
01:00:43,247 --> 01:00:46,881
Mandatory arbitration
is, uh,
991
01:00:46,916 --> 01:00:50,051
Something that has to be
involved in the case,
isn't it, or something?
992
01:00:50,086 --> 01:00:53,404
Because arbitration is
how the case... Oh...
993
01:00:53,438 --> 01:00:55,055
It has something to do
with case files.
994
01:00:55,090 --> 01:00:56,757
Have you heard?
No.
995
01:00:56,807 --> 01:00:58,725
I've heard the two
words used separately.
996
01:00:58,759 --> 01:01:00,810
Right.
997
01:01:00,844 --> 01:01:03,179
Businesses use a number of
devices to keep the public
out of the courts.
998
01:01:03,213 --> 01:01:05,281
One of the devices
they've used is
999
01:01:05,315 --> 01:01:09,936
They've written clauses
into contracts that say
that you cannot go to court.
1000
01:01:09,987 --> 01:01:11,670
You can only
go to arbitration.
1001
01:01:11,738 --> 01:01:14,740
What we started to see
was, again and again,
1002
01:01:14,773 --> 01:01:19,910
Our clients had been
forced to sign in the
fine print of contracts
1003
01:01:19,945 --> 01:01:23,396
These mandatory arbitration,
or forced arbitration clauses,
1004
01:01:23,414 --> 01:01:26,283
And none of our clients
knew that those
provisions were there
1005
01:01:26,334 --> 01:01:29,085
And then it was only after
we got hold of their documents
1006
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:30,236
That we would say to them,
1007
01:01:30,254 --> 01:01:33,088
"hey, did you know
you supposedly agreed
1008
01:01:33,123 --> 01:01:35,342
"that you are not allowed
to sue the company?
1009
01:01:35,376 --> 01:01:38,076
"do you know that
you agreed that instead
of going to a jury,
1010
01:01:38,094 --> 01:01:40,729
"that you have to go to
a private arbitrator,
1011
01:01:40,764 --> 01:01:44,265
"who's with the company,
that's picked by the company
who cheated you?"
1012
01:01:44,300 --> 01:01:47,302
And when you ask people
about binding arbitration
1013
01:01:47,353 --> 01:01:50,688
And "would you knowingly
sign away your rights?"
1014
01:01:50,723 --> 01:01:52,806
They say,
"well, of course not."
1015
01:01:52,857 --> 01:01:55,142
And then you ask them, "well,
do you have a cell phone?
Do you have a gym membership?
1016
01:01:55,193 --> 01:01:57,476
"do ya, you know,
do you have a credit card?"
1017
01:01:57,527 --> 01:01:59,645
Do you know whether
you've ever agreed to
1018
01:01:59,696 --> 01:02:02,949
Mandatory arbitration
in any of your contracts?
1019
01:02:02,984 --> 01:02:05,701
Um, I don't believe
I ever have. No.
1020
01:02:05,736 --> 01:02:07,453
Do you own, do you
have a credit card?
1021
01:02:07,487 --> 01:02:09,120
Well, maybe I have.
1022
01:02:09,155 --> 01:02:11,723
When you first sign a contract
with a cell phone company
1023
01:02:11,757 --> 01:02:13,908
Or a credit card company,
or what not,
1024
01:02:13,942 --> 01:02:17,245
There won't be any reference
or any mention of the
arbitration clause,
1025
01:02:17,278 --> 01:02:19,330
But then at some point,
the company decides to add it.
1026
01:02:19,381 --> 01:02:23,334
So what they do is,
they send out, in
incredibly tiny print,
1027
01:02:23,385 --> 01:02:26,453
A little booklet that
they stick in with the bill.
1028
01:02:26,471 --> 01:02:30,122
And what almost everybody
does, is you look at the bill,
1029
01:02:30,140 --> 01:02:31,808
And you throw
everything else away.
1030
01:02:31,842 --> 01:02:34,243
But that's where they send
in the arbitration clause
1031
01:02:34,278 --> 01:02:37,179
And then what they say
is, if you ever use
your phone again,
1032
01:02:37,213 --> 01:02:39,548
Or you ever use your
credit card again,
1033
01:02:39,582 --> 01:02:43,518
That you've supposedly
"agreed" to mandatory
arbitration.
1034
01:02:43,553 --> 01:02:45,820
What's happened in america,
1035
01:02:45,854 --> 01:02:49,306
Is that entire industries
have all adopted mandatory
arbitration clauses.
1036
01:02:49,324 --> 01:02:51,225
You'll see them in
credit card agreements,
1037
01:02:51,259 --> 01:02:53,626
Checking account agreements,
lending agreements,
1038
01:02:53,661 --> 01:02:55,144
Cell phone contracts,
1039
01:02:55,162 --> 01:02:57,030
Virtually anything that's
bought over the internet.
1040
01:02:57,063 --> 01:02:59,299
Computers, books, records.
1041
01:02:59,333 --> 01:03:00,533
Virtually all nursing homes.
1042
01:03:00,568 --> 01:03:02,901
Nearly every contract
to buy a new car,
1043
01:03:02,936 --> 01:03:05,003
Health clubs, tanning salons.
1044
01:03:05,038 --> 01:03:08,957
I have a friend who took
her cat in to be boarded
while she went on vacation
1045
01:03:08,991 --> 01:03:11,793
And the kennel made her sign
a mandatory arbitration clause
1046
01:03:11,827 --> 01:03:14,379
That if they killed her
cat or did something
horrible to it,
1047
01:03:14,430 --> 01:03:15,963
That she couldn't go to court.
1048
01:03:15,997 --> 01:03:17,732
You have no
bargaining power,
1049
01:03:17,766 --> 01:03:21,334
You as a consumer or
a worker are forced
into these things
1050
01:03:21,369 --> 01:03:24,104
And you really never had
a choice in the matter.
1051
01:03:24,138 --> 01:03:27,190
Mandatory arbitration is
fast becoming the rule,
1052
01:03:27,225 --> 01:03:29,142
Rather than the exception.
1053
01:03:29,176 --> 01:03:33,362
The practice of forcing
employees to use arbitration
has been on the rise.
1054
01:03:33,397 --> 01:03:35,146
There are several
surveys that show
1055
01:03:35,180 --> 01:03:37,399
That more than a third of
the working people in america
1056
01:03:37,450 --> 01:03:41,269
Are bound to forced
arbitration clauses.
1057
01:03:41,303 --> 01:03:43,537
In fact far more
american workers
1058
01:03:43,571 --> 01:03:47,324
Are governed by
mandatory forced
arbitration clauses
1059
01:03:47,358 --> 01:03:50,828
Than are members of unions
in modern america today.
1060
01:03:53,548 --> 01:03:56,883
I worked for halliburton
in houston for a little
bit over a year
1061
01:03:56,967 --> 01:03:59,701
Before I decided
to go to iraq.
1062
01:03:59,719 --> 01:04:01,003
When I was in iraq,
1063
01:04:01,037 --> 01:04:04,873
Halliburton and kbr
were the same company.
1064
01:04:04,891 --> 01:04:09,310
Those that go over
to iraq get promoted
when they come home.
1065
01:04:09,377 --> 01:04:13,597
Also, I mean my goal was
to just work there forever.
1066
01:04:13,649 --> 01:04:17,184
I was content there,
until everything happened.
1067
01:04:18,853 --> 01:04:23,273
I was told that
I would be housed in
a little trailer house
1068
01:04:23,324 --> 01:04:26,409
With one female on one side,
another on one side
1069
01:04:26,444 --> 01:04:28,828
And then a bathroom
shared in the middle.
1070
01:04:28,863 --> 01:04:31,731
And when I got there,
I was perplexed
1071
01:04:31,748 --> 01:04:35,250
Because I was put
in a predominately
all-male barrack.
1072
01:04:35,285 --> 01:04:37,568
I didn't see
any females there.
1073
01:04:37,586 --> 01:04:41,237
I emailed some of the managers
that I knew from houston,
1074
01:04:41,255 --> 01:04:44,008
And I told them I was
concerned, that I wanted...
1075
01:04:44,042 --> 01:04:47,745
You know, to be moved
into the living quarters
that I was promised,
1076
01:04:47,763 --> 01:04:52,182
And one guy emailed me
back and just said,
"oh, you'll get over it."
1077
01:04:52,216 --> 01:04:56,353
Men had their doors open,
and some were in boxers,
1078
01:04:56,386 --> 01:04:58,120
And they were cat calling.
1079
01:05:04,393 --> 01:05:07,778
When I woke up,
I was severely beaten,
1080
01:05:07,812 --> 01:05:09,397
My chest was disfigured,
1081
01:05:09,431 --> 01:05:12,116
I was bleeding between
my legs, I was naked.
1082
01:05:12,151 --> 01:05:15,452
I washed my hands and
then I saw the bruises
on my wrists,
1083
01:05:15,487 --> 01:05:19,155
And I'm starting to put
together that something
major happened to my body.
1084
01:05:19,239 --> 01:05:22,441
And then I go back up
the stairs, down the hall,
1085
01:05:22,459 --> 01:05:26,128
And I looked in my room
and there was a man
in the bottom bunk,
1086
01:05:26,163 --> 01:05:29,465
And I don't remember if
he was clothed or anything,
1087
01:05:29,500 --> 01:05:35,737
I was so, like, shocked,
that part...Bits and pieces
of it are gone from me.
1088
01:05:35,771 --> 01:05:39,758
It was just,
it was the worst moment
in my entire life.
1089
01:05:39,792 --> 01:05:46,146
To actually see a man brazen
enough to still be there
in the room after raping me.
1090
01:05:47,097 --> 01:05:48,932
And it was really hard,
1091
01:05:48,966 --> 01:05:51,768
And I know now
that the reason why
he was still in the room,
1092
01:05:51,802 --> 01:05:56,773
Was because he would be
able to get away with it.
1093
01:05:56,807 --> 01:05:59,074
I went to seek medical help
1094
01:05:59,108 --> 01:06:04,312
And at the army doctor,
she said that I had been, um,
1095
01:06:05,614 --> 01:06:08,315
Penetrated both
vaginally and anally.
1096
01:06:08,333 --> 01:06:13,070
And that the tears down
there were significant.
1097
01:06:23,713 --> 01:06:26,048
You've heard a lot about
halliburton lately.
1098
01:06:26,099 --> 01:06:28,767
Criticism is okay,
we can take it.
1099
01:06:28,802 --> 01:06:30,886
Criticism is not failure.
1100
01:06:30,937 --> 01:06:33,221
Our employees
are doing a great job.
1101
01:06:33,272 --> 01:06:36,608
We're feeding the soldiers,
we're rebuilding iraq.
1102
01:06:36,642 --> 01:06:37,774
Will things go wrong?
1103
01:06:37,809 --> 01:06:39,943
Sure they will,
it's a war zone.
1104
01:06:39,978 --> 01:06:43,897
But when they do, we'll
fix it. We always have.
1105
01:06:43,948 --> 01:06:48,401
So then two kbr security
officers took me to a...
1106
01:06:48,452 --> 01:06:52,121
It's been called a lot
of things, shipping
container, trailer,
1107
01:06:52,155 --> 01:06:54,624
Essentially
I was imprisoned.
1108
01:06:54,658 --> 01:06:57,826
There was two armed guards
outside of my door,
1109
01:06:57,860 --> 01:07:02,998
Um, I was begging and pleading
through the door to, you know,
let me get out of there.
1110
01:07:03,032 --> 01:07:06,467
And finally, one of
the guards, out of sympathy,
let me use his phone.
1111
01:07:06,501 --> 01:07:09,837
I called my father,
who contacted
congressman ted poe.
1112
01:07:09,871 --> 01:07:11,871
Well, it was
almost unbelievable.
1113
01:07:11,889 --> 01:07:17,427
Here she is, a young, uh,
19-year-old, uh, female,
1114
01:07:17,478 --> 01:07:21,230
And according to her dad,
uh, she had, uh...
1115
01:07:21,265 --> 01:07:24,100
She was locked up in one
of these shipping crates,
1116
01:07:24,150 --> 01:07:29,153
So the first thing that
I thought should happen is
get her out of that situation.
1117
01:07:29,187 --> 01:07:32,491
You know, uh, send the
troops over to rescue
her, so to speak.
1118
01:07:32,525 --> 01:07:35,826
And uh, the state department,
I thought did
a pretty good job.
1119
01:07:35,861 --> 01:07:39,329
After I was rescued
by federal agents,
1120
01:07:39,363 --> 01:07:42,766
They formed a meeting
with kbr management,
1121
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:46,235
And management told me
that I had two options.
1122
01:07:46,253 --> 01:07:47,953
One, I could
continue working there,
1123
01:07:48,004 --> 01:07:51,406
Or two, I could go home
and be terminated.
1124
01:07:51,424 --> 01:07:55,243
I tried to pursue my criminal
case and it didn't work,
1125
01:07:55,261 --> 01:07:59,847
And then I tried to
file a civil suit
and that didn't work out
1126
01:07:59,882 --> 01:08:04,335
Because of the
arbitration clause in
my employment contract.
1127
01:08:12,393 --> 01:08:16,113
No one would conceive that
this would happen to them,
first of all,
1128
01:08:16,147 --> 01:08:18,764
And secondly, no one would
conceive that this would be,
1129
01:08:18,782 --> 01:08:23,952
Oh, well then, the company
that sent you over there
and put you in this position,
1130
01:08:23,986 --> 01:08:27,038
Uh, where you were raped,
1131
01:08:27,073 --> 01:08:30,375
Is also, "you're just
going to have to arbitrate
with us secretly."
1132
01:08:30,409 --> 01:08:33,994
I mean, I don't think anyone
could possibly conceive
that that would happen.
1133
01:08:34,046 --> 01:08:36,413
Well, whenever you take a case
out of the court system,
1134
01:08:36,447 --> 01:08:40,216
You're immediately put into
a biased type of forum.
1135
01:08:40,250 --> 01:08:43,052
Arbitration happens to
be extremely biased.
1136
01:08:43,087 --> 01:08:45,671
Most arbitrations
take place in secret.
1137
01:08:45,722 --> 01:08:47,173
You have a private judge,
1138
01:08:47,224 --> 01:08:49,225
So if you have a credit
card agreement,
1139
01:08:49,259 --> 01:08:53,362
The credit card company picks
who the arbitration company
is going to be
1140
01:08:53,396 --> 01:08:57,348
And then the arbitration
company picks an individual
arbitrator to hear your case.
1141
01:08:57,433 --> 01:09:00,434
The arbitrator wants
repeat business,
1142
01:09:00,468 --> 01:09:02,302
And they only deal
with you once,
1143
01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:06,606
But they deal with a bank
of america, or general motors,
or whoever it is,
1144
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:10,110
The businesses,
they deal with them
day in and day out.
1145
01:09:10,144 --> 01:09:14,196
And so they're going to
tilt their decisions
toward the businesses.
1146
01:09:14,247 --> 01:09:16,415
There have
been a bunch of examples
1147
01:09:16,449 --> 01:09:19,484
Where if the arbitrator
ruled in favor of a consumer,
1148
01:09:19,536 --> 01:09:22,287
Or ruled in favor of
somebody who is an employee,
1149
01:09:22,321 --> 01:09:26,175
That they were blackballed,
and they never got to work
again as an arbitrator.
1150
01:09:26,209 --> 01:09:28,176
So they set up
systems that are
1151
01:09:28,209 --> 01:09:31,261
Essentially rigged
against the consumers.
1152
01:09:31,295 --> 01:09:35,432
Many studies show that
consumers come out
winning these cases
1153
01:09:35,466 --> 01:09:37,500
Maybe less than ten
percent of the time.
1154
01:09:37,518 --> 01:09:41,354
They're almost always
won by the bank or the
credit card company.
1155
01:09:41,389 --> 01:09:44,224
It's impossible to
find out what the reason is
1156
01:09:44,275 --> 01:09:46,625
For an arbitrator ruling
for one side or another.
1157
01:09:46,660 --> 01:09:50,478
They just say this side
wins, this side loses,
and that's it.
1158
01:09:50,512 --> 01:09:54,282
And there's no right to
appeal, so I have to take the
final judgment of one guy
1159
01:09:54,316 --> 01:09:56,650
Who's been picked by
my credit card company
1160
01:09:56,684 --> 01:10:00,354
To tell me that I'm going
to end up having to pay.
1161
01:10:00,372 --> 01:10:02,206
I'm not okay with that.
Yeah, I'm not okay
with that either.
1162
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:04,625
No. Uh-uh.
That's actually upsetting.
1163
01:10:04,659 --> 01:10:07,293
Transparency is a must
in the judicial process,
1164
01:10:07,327 --> 01:10:10,379
So if there's no oversight
in that regard,
1165
01:10:10,414 --> 01:10:12,415
I'd be pretty,
I'd be pretty worried.
1166
01:10:12,466 --> 01:10:16,051
Until and unless congress
takes action with regard to
1167
01:10:16,086 --> 01:10:18,837
Restricting the use of these
binding arbitration clauses,
1168
01:10:18,871 --> 01:10:21,255
We're all going to be
stuck with these clauses.
1169
01:10:21,306 --> 01:10:25,811
Senator al franken
proposing the pentagon
shouldn't hire contractors
1170
01:10:25,845 --> 01:10:29,763
That make their employees
agree in advance not to sue
1171
01:10:29,814 --> 01:10:31,981
If they're raped
by co-workers.
1172
01:10:32,017 --> 01:10:36,736
I just started the jamie leigh
foundation, and I've been
trying to bring awareness
1173
01:10:36,821 --> 01:10:39,606
To the situation to help
others through my foundation.
1174
01:10:39,657 --> 01:10:41,057
So behind the
scenes up to this point,
1175
01:10:41,075 --> 01:10:43,492
You've been trying to
pursue every legal avenue...
1176
01:10:43,526 --> 01:10:46,028
Oh yeah.
1177
01:10:46,062 --> 01:10:49,031
I went public because
I wanted to bring awareness
to the situation
1178
01:10:49,065 --> 01:10:53,000
That there was a loophole
in our justice system
1179
01:10:53,035 --> 01:10:55,903
That needed to be
fixed very quickly.
1180
01:10:55,921 --> 01:11:00,240
If I could just, you
know, get this out there,
what happened to me,
1181
01:11:00,258 --> 01:11:05,761
That maybe, you know, people
would change the laws, somehow
the laws would change.
1182
01:11:10,934 --> 01:11:12,885
Hi!
Hi!
1183
01:11:12,919 --> 01:11:14,937
Hi. Thank you so much for
all that you've done.
1184
01:11:14,971 --> 01:11:16,689
Thank you for your courage.
1185
01:11:16,723 --> 01:11:18,256
It's just amazing.
Amazing!
1186
01:11:19,860 --> 01:11:22,260
Hi, yes. Very nice
to meet you.
1187
01:11:22,278 --> 01:11:27,365
Nice to meet you. You
have an incredibly
courageous daughter.
1188
01:11:27,399 --> 01:11:28,565
Thank you.
1189
01:11:28,599 --> 01:11:30,534
And also with a tremendous
amount of persistence.
1190
01:11:30,568 --> 01:11:31,869
yeah.
1191
01:11:31,903 --> 01:11:33,070
So, way to go.
1192
01:11:33,104 --> 01:11:34,287
Thank you.
1193
01:11:45,815 --> 01:11:47,883
And you're testifying
tomorrow?
1194
01:11:47,917 --> 01:11:49,416
Yes, sir. Uh-huh.
1195
01:11:49,450 --> 01:11:53,287
I've testified in front
of congress a few times.
1196
01:11:53,305 --> 01:11:55,622
Is it judiciary
committee tomorrow?
1197
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:56,956
Uh, judiciary, yes.
1198
01:11:56,974 --> 01:11:57,974
So that's me.
1199
01:11:58,058 --> 01:11:59,226
Yeah.
1200
01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:05,598
I turned to the civil
court system for justice
1201
01:12:05,632 --> 01:12:08,801
When the criminal justice
system was slow to respond.
1202
01:12:08,819 --> 01:12:13,405
When my lawyers filed the
suit, um, they were met
with halliburton's response
1203
01:12:13,439 --> 01:12:16,858
That all of my claims were
to be decided in arbitration,
1204
01:12:16,909 --> 01:12:21,829
Because I had signed away
my right to a trial by jury
at such an early age.
1205
01:12:21,864 --> 01:12:25,699
I had no choice to sign
this contract because
I needed this job.
1206
01:12:25,751 --> 01:12:28,920
I had no idea that the clause
was part of the contract,
1207
01:12:28,954 --> 01:12:30,320
What the clause
actually meant,
1208
01:12:30,338 --> 01:12:33,623
Or that I would eventually end
up in this horrible situation.
1209
01:12:33,657 --> 01:12:38,160
The problem of forcing claims
like mine into a secret system
of binding arbitration
1210
01:12:38,178 --> 01:12:40,679
Goes well beyond me.
1211
01:12:40,714 --> 01:12:43,182
Even when victims pursue
their claims in arbitration,
1212
01:12:43,216 --> 01:12:46,334
The information is sealed
and kept confidential.
1213
01:12:46,352 --> 01:12:50,971
The system of arbitration
keeps this evidence from
ever coming to public light,
1214
01:12:51,005 --> 01:12:52,940
And allows companies
like halliburton
1215
01:12:52,974 --> 01:12:55,359
To continue to allow the
abuse of their employees
1216
01:12:55,393 --> 01:12:58,178
Without repercussion
or public scrutiny.
1217
01:12:58,196 --> 01:13:01,280
The seminal
question is, should employers
and employees be able to
1218
01:13:01,315 --> 01:13:05,618
Engage in mediation and
mandatory binding arbitration
of employment disputes
1219
01:13:05,652 --> 01:13:08,186
As alternatives
to litigation?
1220
01:13:08,204 --> 01:13:11,690
The seminal answer
is, absolutely.
1221
01:13:11,707 --> 01:13:13,825
Adr unemployment programs
are flourishing,
1222
01:13:13,859 --> 01:13:18,329
When implemented appropriately
they're decisively in
employees' best interest.
1223
01:13:18,363 --> 01:13:21,715
It is a popular concept
for those employers
who've adopted it,
1224
01:13:21,750 --> 01:13:23,334
And adopted it
appropriately.
1225
01:13:23,368 --> 01:13:25,502
It provides for more
effective communication...
1226
01:13:25,536 --> 01:13:26,703
Sir, in your
comments...
1227
01:13:26,721 --> 01:13:28,639
Sure.
1228
01:13:28,673 --> 01:13:32,926
Uh, would you also tell how
arbitration could be helpful
to somebody like miss jones
1229
01:13:32,977 --> 01:13:38,397
When the, when the, uh,
her employer, halliburton
in effect, said that
1230
01:13:38,431 --> 01:13:42,884
Rape and sexual assault
has just to be considered
part of the job?
1231
01:13:44,654 --> 01:13:48,222
What we
have in this situation,
I'm not here representing
1232
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:51,225
Uh, anyone involved
in that case, I'm not
involved in that case,
1233
01:13:51,243 --> 01:13:52,742
Um, you know,
1234
01:13:52,777 --> 01:13:56,663
Miss jones has had
her day in court, and
maybe more than she'd want.
1235
01:13:56,697 --> 01:13:59,164
It goes on and on and
on, I understand that.
1236
01:13:59,199 --> 01:14:02,735
Uh, what we're talking about
is the concept of adr,
1237
01:14:02,753 --> 01:14:05,070
And dispute resolution
programs overall.
1238
01:14:05,121 --> 01:14:07,406
Senator franken.
1239
01:14:07,424 --> 01:14:11,926
Thank you mr. Chairman.
Thank you for calling,
uh, this hearing, uh,
1240
01:14:11,961 --> 01:14:13,962
Mr. De bernardo.
1241
01:14:14,013 --> 01:14:19,416
You said that the net result
of the use of, uh, arbitration
1242
01:14:19,434 --> 01:14:21,719
Is better workplaces.
1243
01:14:22,603 --> 01:14:24,587
Correct.
1244
01:14:24,605 --> 01:14:25,856
Better workplaces?
1245
01:14:26,941 --> 01:14:28,025
Correct.
1246
01:14:28,059 --> 01:14:30,059
She was housed with 400 men.
1247
01:14:32,446 --> 01:14:38,116
She told kbr twice that she
was being sexually harassed.
1248
01:14:39,568 --> 01:14:40,869
She was drugged,
1249
01:14:42,654 --> 01:14:48,409
By men that the kbr
employment people knew
did this kind of thing.
1250
01:14:49,294 --> 01:14:51,462
She was raped. Gang raped.
1251
01:14:51,496 --> 01:14:53,881
She had to have reconstructive
surgery, sir.
1252
01:14:57,418 --> 01:15:01,120
They had this,
this arbitration.
1253
01:15:02,889 --> 01:15:06,808
Now, if that created
a better workplace...
1254
01:15:06,843 --> 01:15:12,963
And then, she was locked
in a shipping container
with an armed guard.
1255
01:15:12,981 --> 01:15:16,600
Now, my question to you is,
if that's a better workplace,
1256
01:15:18,603 --> 01:15:20,803
What was, what was the
workplace like before?
1257
01:15:23,308 --> 01:15:26,191
That's a rhetorical
question, I'm not really
asking that question.
1258
01:15:27,611 --> 01:15:31,781
They had binding
arbitration at kbr,
1259
01:15:31,815 --> 01:15:33,831
And because of that,
1260
01:15:33,867 --> 01:15:35,917
And they asserted it,
1261
01:15:35,951 --> 01:15:38,036
On cases like this,
1262
01:15:38,087 --> 01:15:43,290
And miss jones, in your
foundation you've heard from
other women who were raped,
1263
01:15:43,324 --> 01:15:44,374
Is that not true?
1264
01:15:44,425 --> 01:15:46,259
Yes, sir, I have.
1265
01:15:46,294 --> 01:15:50,797
And uh, and women who,
under arbitration...
1266
01:15:51,798 --> 01:15:52,932
Yes, sir.
1267
01:15:52,966 --> 01:15:55,385
Were, were told to keep
silent, is that right?
1268
01:15:55,436 --> 01:15:57,337
Exactly.
1269
01:15:57,355 --> 01:16:00,773
And because of that silence,
you didn't know about anything
like this, did you?
1270
01:16:00,807 --> 01:16:04,559
Exactly, I didn't know.
It was not public knowledge.
1271
01:16:07,530 --> 01:16:11,232
And when
mr. De bernardo said that
you had your day in court,
1272
01:16:11,283 --> 01:16:12,616
What was your reaction?
1273
01:16:14,018 --> 01:16:15,452
I was livid, sir.
1274
01:16:18,405 --> 01:16:21,457
Four years to fight to get in
court is not a day in court.
1275
01:16:23,794 --> 01:16:25,661
Um, I was livid too.
1276
01:16:30,049 --> 01:16:32,867
This is the result
of your binding,
1277
01:16:35,138 --> 01:16:37,889
Mandatory arbitration.
1278
01:16:40,725 --> 01:16:41,927
Mr. De bernardo.
1279
01:16:43,877 --> 01:16:45,062
Thank you.
1280
01:16:46,548 --> 01:16:47,730
Mr. Chairman.
1281
01:16:55,739 --> 01:16:58,557
As I talk to people
who have been harmed,
1282
01:16:58,608 --> 01:17:01,909
Look, most of them are not
interested in a big payday.
1283
01:17:01,944 --> 01:17:04,728
Most of these people are
interested in accountability,
1284
01:17:04,746 --> 01:17:06,498
And the, and the way our
system is structured,
1285
01:17:06,533 --> 01:17:11,401
The only way we have, we have
to hold somebody accountable
is through the courthouse.
1286
01:17:11,419 --> 01:17:13,570
I can't tell you why
people support tort reform.
1287
01:17:13,588 --> 01:17:16,540
I can tell you that if they
have supported tort reform,
1288
01:17:16,574 --> 01:17:19,908
And that they
subsequently get hurt,
1289
01:17:21,077 --> 01:17:23,295
They're really sorry
that they did.
1290
01:17:24,764 --> 01:17:26,915
There's a story
of a gentleman in waco.
1291
01:17:26,933 --> 01:17:32,253
He was harmed, and he sought
to hold the doctor who
harmed him accountable,
1292
01:17:32,271 --> 01:17:34,506
And he came to find out
that he couldn't do that,
1293
01:17:34,540 --> 01:17:38,259
And he had voted for the state
constitutional amendment that
1294
01:17:38,277 --> 01:17:41,778
Allowed the legislature to
limit the rights of patients.
1295
01:17:41,813 --> 01:17:43,780
And when he was told,
1296
01:17:43,815 --> 01:17:48,317
"well, you know, proposition
12 is what made this happen,
1297
01:17:48,368 --> 01:17:50,736
"made it so that you couldn't
access the courthouse,"
1298
01:17:50,770 --> 01:17:52,538
He said, "well, I
voted for that!"
1299
01:17:52,573 --> 01:17:55,458
And they said, "well, you
know, a lot of people did.
1300
01:17:55,492 --> 01:17:57,410
"and that's why it's the
law of the land now."
1301
01:17:57,444 --> 01:18:00,378
He said, "but that doesn't...
That's not my case,
1302
01:18:00,413 --> 01:18:02,914
"that's for those people
who file frivolous lawsuits.
1303
01:18:02,948 --> 01:18:05,466
"that's for those people
who are trying to take
advantage of the system.
1304
01:18:05,500 --> 01:18:09,503
"that's for those people
who are trying to cash in
on some lawsuit lottery.
1305
01:18:09,554 --> 01:18:11,137
"that's not what
I'm trying to do.
1306
01:18:11,173 --> 01:18:12,889
"I was harmed, and
all I'm trying to do
1307
01:18:12,923 --> 01:18:15,124
"is hold the person who
harmed me accountable."
1308
01:18:15,142 --> 01:18:17,894
And he realized
at that moment,
1309
01:18:19,647 --> 01:18:22,347
"what I've been told
all of these years,
1310
01:18:22,398 --> 01:18:24,150
"they think that's me."
1311
01:18:24,185 --> 01:18:28,820
We don't need tort reform,
uh, we need tort respect.
1312
01:18:28,855 --> 01:18:34,141
With the, the tort
law is, uh, what makes
this country strong.
1313
01:18:34,159 --> 01:18:38,246
It is tort law and the
bringing of tort lawsuits,
1314
01:18:38,280 --> 01:18:42,832
And the rendering of
civil damages, that's
what keeps our toys safe.
1315
01:18:42,867 --> 01:18:46,286
It's what keeps
our cars from horribly
injuring people.
1316
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:50,873
It's what keeps people
from lying, cheating,
and stealing.
1317
01:18:50,924 --> 01:18:53,926
If we can't hold perpetrators
of wrongdoing accountable,
1318
01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:55,844
None of us are safe
from their actions.
1319
01:18:55,879 --> 01:18:59,031
That's the role that the
civil justice system plays.
1320
01:18:59,065 --> 01:19:05,269
The one entity that can
hold businesses, bad doctors
accountable is the civil jury,
1321
01:19:05,303 --> 01:19:07,137
And that's what they're
most afraid of.
1322
01:19:07,171 --> 01:19:12,692
Why is it that you support an
effort to limit the ability
of juries to make a decision
1323
01:19:12,726 --> 01:19:14,945
When you're suing business,
1324
01:19:14,979 --> 01:19:21,317
But you support the idea that
juries should be allowed to
decide in death penalty cases,
1325
01:19:21,351 --> 01:19:25,186
Where the issue is whether or
not some person should die?
1326
01:19:25,204 --> 01:19:28,240
Ultimately, it comes down to
whether you trust juries.
1327
01:19:28,291 --> 01:19:32,377
Certainly it's the best
system anybody's come up with,
in the history of the world,
1328
01:19:32,411 --> 01:19:35,696
To resolve disputes
involving ordinary people.
1329
01:19:35,714 --> 01:19:38,031
And then the question becomes,
what's the alternative?
1330
01:19:38,049 --> 01:19:41,217
So, should we let the
businesses decide? Should
we let arbitrators decide?
1331
01:19:41,252 --> 01:19:46,038
If we give up the civil
jury, uh, as a tool for
holding uh, wrongdoers,
1332
01:19:46,056 --> 01:19:50,260
And the business community,
uh, accountable, what's
the alternative?
1333
01:19:50,311 --> 01:19:51,760
Who's going to police them?
1334
01:19:51,811 --> 01:19:53,845
And the answer is
no one, they're going
to police themselves.
1335
01:19:53,879 --> 01:19:55,814
And that's exactly
what they want.
1336
01:20:04,689 --> 01:20:10,227
It really
opened my eyes to
how the system works,
1337
01:20:10,245 --> 01:20:16,566
And, um, the things that I
thought were in place to
protect you have been,
1338
01:20:16,584 --> 01:20:18,066
Have been taken away.
1339
01:20:18,084 --> 01:20:21,420
And I didn't realize
there were caps here,
1340
01:20:21,454 --> 01:20:25,090
And I didn't realize
that the doctor wouldn't
have to pay for this,
1341
01:20:25,125 --> 01:20:28,676
That the taxpayers
were going to pay for
colin's damages.
1342
01:20:46,893 --> 01:20:50,412
This is a
campaign that's occurring all
across the United States,
1343
01:20:50,446 --> 01:20:52,564
It's not only in mississippi.
1344
01:20:53,817 --> 01:20:55,984
They don't want a
level playing field,
1345
01:20:56,035 --> 01:20:59,903
And they'll spend millions
of dollars to get these
people in place,
1346
01:20:59,937 --> 01:21:05,358
To be sure that the judges
will rule the way that
they want them too.
1347
01:21:18,087 --> 01:21:22,858
I still have
flashbacks, I still get jumpy
if someone comes up behind me,
1348
01:21:22,892 --> 01:21:25,142
I have nightmares.
1349
01:21:25,177 --> 01:21:29,513
I wish that I could
confront the men that
did this to my body.
1350
01:21:29,564 --> 01:21:32,849
I think that it would be
instrumental to my healing.
1351
01:21:32,883 --> 01:21:38,238
The only way I could do
that is if I'm able to face
them in a court of law.
1352
01:21:39,406 --> 01:21:41,858
And I hope to do that one day.
1353
01:21:57,338 --> 01:22:01,843
I mean, I've heard so many
ridiculous stories about, she
was asking for $30 million or,
1354
01:22:01,877 --> 01:22:04,010
You know, something
equally ridiculous.
1355
01:22:04,045 --> 01:22:08,598
Basically, stella told them,
"I want you to cover what
medicare doesn't cover,
1356
01:22:08,633 --> 01:22:10,800
"and I want you to get a
better lid on that coffee,
1357
01:22:10,834 --> 01:22:13,168
"'cause I don't want this
to happen to another person."
1358
01:22:13,186 --> 01:22:16,138
And that was basically
what she was asking for.
1359
01:22:16,172 --> 01:22:22,143
When somebody goes to court,
they're doing something
extraordinary that is hidden.
1360
01:22:22,177 --> 01:22:26,830
To go to court and to sue
is not a simple procedure.
1361
01:22:26,865 --> 01:22:29,366
You have to go through a
lot of trouble to do it,
1362
01:22:29,402 --> 01:22:33,704
It affects your life,
you're going to be attacked
in all kinds of ways...
1363
01:22:33,738 --> 01:22:39,041
Going to court to gain
justice is heroic.
1364
01:22:39,076 --> 01:22:42,462
That idea has to be out there.
1365
01:22:42,496 --> 01:22:47,916
That is, when you, quote,
win a case, you win
it for other people,
1366
01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:51,169
As well as gaining
justice for yourself.
127670
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