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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,335 You better finish your little cafe latte there, they'll never let you in with it. 2 00:00:13,369 --> 00:00:14,703 Why not? 3 00:00:14,754 --> 00:00:17,139 'cause they don't allow outside drinks into the movie. 4 00:00:17,173 --> 00:00:19,508 Well, we'll just see if we can't get around that. 5 00:00:23,762 --> 00:00:25,796 Pardon me. Excuse us. 6 00:00:25,831 --> 00:00:26,881 Oh! 7 00:00:26,915 --> 00:00:28,799 Ahh! 8 00:00:28,833 --> 00:00:30,017 Coffee! 9 00:00:36,006 --> 00:00:38,391 And then, there is this tonight. 10 00:00:38,442 --> 00:00:43,395 In albuquerque, an 81-year-old woman has been awarded $2.9 million 11 00:00:43,446 --> 00:00:47,316 After she sued mcdonald's, claiming their coffee was too hot. 12 00:00:47,350 --> 00:00:51,153 It seems she was holding a cup between her legs while driving. 13 00:00:51,203 --> 00:00:53,871 I spoke to a lawyer, we're suing for millions. 14 00:00:55,457 --> 00:00:56,741 Suing, what for? 15 00:00:56,792 --> 00:00:58,709 The coffee was too hot! 16 00:01:03,731 --> 00:01:05,464 I've been thinking of quitting work here, 17 00:01:05,499 --> 00:01:08,701 And suing big companies for a living instead. 18 00:01:08,735 --> 00:01:11,170 Suing has become a popular american pastime, 19 00:01:11,204 --> 00:01:13,572 And I'd like to get in on some of that easy money. 20 00:01:13,607 --> 00:01:17,976 A college student sued his college, because his roommate partied too much. 21 00:01:18,010 --> 00:01:21,379 A florida man sued because he got a bad haircut. 22 00:01:21,397 --> 00:01:23,597 Of course, many of these lawsuits fail. 23 00:01:23,648 --> 00:01:25,983 But you might win. 24 00:01:26,018 --> 00:01:29,002 Stella liebeck did, because of a cup of coffee. 25 00:01:36,610 --> 00:01:39,028 Every minute they waste on this frivolous lawsuit, 26 00:01:39,062 --> 00:01:42,081 They're not able to waste on other frivolous lawsuits. 27 00:01:42,116 --> 00:01:45,784 Like "ooh, my coffee was too hot!" it's coffee! 28 00:01:45,835 --> 00:01:48,152 The woman, she purchased the coffee, and she spilled it on herself. 29 00:01:48,186 --> 00:01:52,506 I mean, it wasn't like the mcdonald's employee took the coffee, threw it on her. 30 00:01:52,541 --> 00:01:54,508 Now that in itself, then she would have had a lawsuit. 31 00:01:54,543 --> 00:01:59,246 It's just, people just are greedy, and want money, and they'll do anything to get it. 32 00:02:02,184 --> 00:02:07,470 I think many americans have a, a fundamentally wrong perception 33 00:02:07,521 --> 00:02:09,221 Of the civil justice system. 34 00:02:09,255 --> 00:02:12,341 They think that the system is flooded with frivolous lawsuits. 35 00:02:12,375 --> 00:02:13,925 Jackpot justice! 36 00:02:13,943 --> 00:02:16,145 Predatory trial lawyers at it again. 37 00:02:16,196 --> 00:02:18,446 Junk lawsuits over frivolous injuries... 38 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,616 Lawsuit lottery, and jackpot justice, and frivolous lawsuits. 39 00:02:21,650 --> 00:02:25,368 These were bumper-sticker phrases that were easy to market, 40 00:02:25,403 --> 00:02:31,908 And use to move public sentiment away from a strong civil justice system. 41 00:02:31,959 --> 00:02:36,795 The whole issue is, the industry does not want the public, generally, 42 00:02:36,830 --> 00:02:38,881 To have access to the courts. 43 00:02:38,915 --> 00:02:42,784 So, there's all of these devices and methods that businesses use 44 00:02:42,802 --> 00:02:45,386 To keep consumers out of the courtroom. 45 00:03:00,467 --> 00:03:03,469 My mother, at 79, was very active. 46 00:03:03,487 --> 00:03:06,355 She drove, she drove well, 47 00:03:06,406 --> 00:03:08,673 She very seldom dropped anything, 48 00:03:08,708 --> 00:03:11,076 She very seldom spilled anything, 49 00:03:12,195 --> 00:03:16,330 And so that, uh, for her age, 50 00:03:16,364 --> 00:03:20,367 At 79 years old, I thought she was, she was remarkable. 51 00:03:20,418 --> 00:03:22,653 And she had been working full-time just about, 52 00:03:22,671 --> 00:03:24,837 Until about a week before this all happened. 53 00:03:38,234 --> 00:03:40,335 My name is charles allen. 54 00:03:40,353 --> 00:03:44,473 I'd like to introduce my wife, judy, and her mother, stella liebeck. 55 00:03:44,507 --> 00:03:49,610 The woman who was burned by a cup of scalding hot mcdonald's coffee three years ago. 56 00:03:49,645 --> 00:03:54,231 She cannot speak due to a confidentiality agreement that she signed, 57 00:03:54,282 --> 00:03:56,899 But judy and I have no such agreement. 58 00:03:58,569 --> 00:04:04,073 I am just xxtoded at how many people are aware of this case, 59 00:04:04,124 --> 00:04:08,911 And how many people have a distorted view of the case. 60 00:04:08,962 --> 00:04:13,915 It doesn't matter where I am, or who I speak to, they "oh, yeah, I know all about that." 61 00:04:13,966 --> 00:04:15,533 Well, what do you know? 62 00:04:15,551 --> 00:04:17,918 I got this picture in my mind that she actually pulled up, 63 00:04:17,952 --> 00:04:21,088 Maybe took the coffee, and dumped it. 64 00:04:21,172 --> 00:04:23,807 I think she went through the drive-through. 65 00:04:23,874 --> 00:04:25,308 She was driving the car. 66 00:04:25,342 --> 00:04:26,810 Tried to drive and drink it at the same time. 67 00:04:26,844 --> 00:04:29,512 And then it might have popped open and it spilled on her lap. 68 00:04:29,546 --> 00:04:30,796 Had it between her legs. 69 00:04:30,864 --> 00:04:32,931 Spilled in her lap, it was too hot. 70 00:04:32,982 --> 00:04:34,216 And then sued mcdonald's 71 00:04:34,234 --> 00:04:36,586 For millions of dollars. 72 00:04:36,619 --> 00:04:41,690 And I'll say, "what would you say if I told you she wasn't driving?" 73 00:04:41,724 --> 00:04:43,858 "oh no, she was driving!" 74 00:04:43,892 --> 00:04:47,995 "what would you say if I told you that's the wrong report, and she was not driving? 75 00:04:48,029 --> 00:04:50,447 "she was in the parking lot. 76 00:04:50,498 --> 00:04:53,666 "she was in the passenger seat. My nephew was driving." 77 00:04:55,370 --> 00:04:58,371 So we had just dropped off my uncle at the airport, 78 00:04:58,404 --> 00:05:04,743 And went to the nearest mcdonald's that I knew of, and this was it. 79 00:05:04,761 --> 00:05:09,381 So, pulled up, she ordered coffee with her value meal, 80 00:05:09,415 --> 00:05:11,766 And I knew she liked cream and sugar in it. 81 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,852 There was no place in, in my 1989 ford probe. 82 00:05:14,886 --> 00:05:18,388 Everything sloped. There were no cup holders in that car. 83 00:05:19,891 --> 00:05:21,108 Did I get cream and sugar also? 84 00:05:21,142 --> 00:05:22,108 It's in the bag. 85 00:05:22,143 --> 00:05:23,226 It's in the bag? Yeah. 86 00:05:23,260 --> 00:05:24,444 Thank you. 87 00:05:27,063 --> 00:05:29,031 We pulled out of here knowing that we... 88 00:05:29,065 --> 00:05:31,817 I needed to get organized if I was going to be eating and driving, 89 00:05:31,868 --> 00:05:34,402 And I knew she wanted to put her cream and sugar in the coffee, 90 00:05:34,436 --> 00:05:38,823 So, pretty much pulled right here, almost exactly in this spot, 91 00:05:38,874 --> 00:05:42,744 And handed her her coffee, or had already done that, 92 00:05:42,778 --> 00:05:47,297 And so we just went about organizing, 93 00:05:47,332 --> 00:05:51,818 And a short period after that, she started screaming. 94 00:05:51,853 --> 00:05:54,337 Wanted to get the top off to put cream and sugar in, 95 00:05:54,388 --> 00:05:58,474 So I put it between my knees to steady it with this hand, 96 00:05:58,508 --> 00:06:01,677 Trying to get the top off, and it just went "whoo." 97 00:06:01,728 --> 00:06:04,179 Are you going to show me the burns? Yeah. 98 00:06:04,230 --> 00:06:05,480 What? 99 00:06:05,515 --> 00:06:08,266 Yeah. Would that change your mind at all? 100 00:06:08,300 --> 00:06:10,268 Wow. 101 00:06:10,302 --> 00:06:15,072 Yes, if I saw injuries like that, I would definitely take a different view of it 102 00:06:15,106 --> 00:06:16,357 From what I hear from the media. 103 00:06:16,391 --> 00:06:17,574 Oh, my gosh! 104 00:06:22,763 --> 00:06:25,031 Excruciating pain. 105 00:06:25,082 --> 00:06:30,335 Uh, I was burned so severely that, uh, they didn't think I would live. 106 00:06:30,370 --> 00:06:33,154 I'm a nurse, and I was horrified 107 00:06:33,172 --> 00:06:35,757 At the type of injuries that she had sustained. 108 00:06:35,792 --> 00:06:39,377 Um, the skin grafts, and the pieces that were still ongoing. 109 00:06:39,428 --> 00:06:44,298 So it was kind of a shocker, 'cause it's one thing to hear, but it's another thing to see. 110 00:06:44,332 --> 00:06:47,134 So it was kind of, uh, "oh my goodness." 111 00:06:47,168 --> 00:06:52,522 We could see the extent of this injury, so we started saying 112 00:06:52,556 --> 00:06:55,725 We need to ask mcdonald's to pay for this. 113 00:06:55,810 --> 00:06:59,812 Under no circumstances would she ever sue or do anything like that. 114 00:06:59,846 --> 00:07:04,532 We thought that the company would take care of medical, and everything would be done. 115 00:07:04,566 --> 00:07:08,052 And chuck and I wrote the letter to mcdonald's. 116 00:07:08,087 --> 00:07:12,072 The very first thing we said is, "your machine must be too hot, 117 00:07:12,123 --> 00:07:14,491 "so look at it, and fix it, if it's broken." 118 00:07:14,525 --> 00:07:16,159 This must be an aberration. 119 00:07:16,193 --> 00:07:19,162 "it must be an aberration. But if it is your, your policy, 120 00:07:19,197 --> 00:07:21,298 "we ask you to worry about that policy, 121 00:07:21,332 --> 00:07:25,251 "because it...You do not want to have this happen to just one person." 122 00:07:25,302 --> 00:07:27,837 And then clearly it can't have happened to just one person. 123 00:07:29,305 --> 00:07:33,808 We were extremely surprised when mcdonald's did not 124 00:07:33,843 --> 00:07:38,912 Offer more than $800 on what was at that point a $10,000 medical problem. 125 00:07:43,051 --> 00:07:44,735 It's one of those things that's really like, 126 00:07:44,769 --> 00:07:46,520 If you ask people what the top ten issues they care about, 127 00:07:46,554 --> 00:07:49,322 You know, the economy, healthcare, education, 128 00:07:49,356 --> 00:07:52,408 The civil justice system never even makes the top twenty. 129 00:07:52,443 --> 00:07:55,560 It's just not in, in most people's radar screen. 130 00:07:55,578 --> 00:07:57,395 Until something bad happens to them, 131 00:07:57,413 --> 00:08:01,065 And then the first thing that most americans think is that they should find a lawyer. 132 00:08:01,083 --> 00:08:05,085 When you are hurt by somebody, harmed in some way, 133 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,873 And the person or the company that harms you is negligent, 134 00:08:08,907 --> 00:08:12,343 Or does this intentionally, 135 00:08:12,377 --> 00:08:15,028 You have a right to hold that wrongdoer accountable. 136 00:08:15,062 --> 00:08:18,164 And those are the civil courts that handle those kinds of cases, 137 00:08:18,199 --> 00:08:20,265 And that is our civil justice system. 138 00:08:20,300 --> 00:08:24,136 It's a fundamental right that we have. It stems from the constitution, 139 00:08:24,187 --> 00:08:25,721 From the bill of rights. 140 00:08:25,755 --> 00:08:29,057 ♪ hey there, kiddos the lesson today 141 00:08:29,091 --> 00:08:32,894 ♪ is about our constitution and the government way 142 00:08:32,928 --> 00:08:36,229 ♪ lawmaking powers divided in three 143 00:08:40,418 --> 00:08:43,753 ♪ forefathers had their say 144 00:08:43,788 --> 00:08:47,940 ♪ that is the american way ♪ 145 00:08:47,958 --> 00:08:51,126 Our judicial branch of government is one of the very few places where 146 00:08:51,161 --> 00:08:54,278 An average person can actually go and confront a big corporation 147 00:08:54,296 --> 00:08:56,632 On somewhat of a level playing field, you know. 148 00:08:56,666 --> 00:09:01,869 The other two branches of government are dominated by money, and politics. 149 00:09:01,903 --> 00:09:06,056 The judicial branch is not, because you can't wine and dine juries. 150 00:09:06,090 --> 00:09:10,677 In the courts, it's you versus general motors. 151 00:09:10,728 --> 00:09:13,680 Or it's you versus, you know, bank of america. 152 00:09:13,731 --> 00:09:17,650 And if you can present your information and your complaint in an effective way, 153 00:09:17,684 --> 00:09:21,604 You have just as much likelihood of winning as general motors does. 154 00:09:21,638 --> 00:09:24,490 There's no other part of the government where that's true. 155 00:09:26,759 --> 00:09:31,579 I got involved in the liebeck case by way of invitation from reed morgan, 156 00:09:31,613 --> 00:09:34,648 Who was lead council, 157 00:09:34,666 --> 00:09:39,453 And once I met reed, and met stella liebeck, and looked at the evidence, 158 00:09:39,487 --> 00:09:41,505 You know, they had my full attention. 159 00:09:41,540 --> 00:09:45,875 Because the coffee in question was brewed at temperatures 160 00:09:45,926 --> 00:09:49,545 That would approximate the temperature in your radiator 161 00:09:49,596 --> 00:09:53,432 After you drive from, you know, from your office to home. 162 00:09:53,466 --> 00:09:59,354 In discovery, we learned that in the franchise directives and manuals, 163 00:09:59,389 --> 00:10:02,172 That the franchisee was required to follow, 164 00:10:02,190 --> 00:10:06,027 That they had to have their, their waters at certain temperatures. 165 00:10:06,111 --> 00:10:13,567 And they said that the holding temperature should be 180 fahrenheit to 190 fahrenheit. 166 00:10:13,618 --> 00:10:16,302 Hot liquid, whether it's coffee, or water, 167 00:10:16,337 --> 00:10:18,070 Or any liquid like that, 168 00:10:18,121 --> 00:10:21,790 If it's in the range of 180 degrees or hotter, 169 00:10:21,825 --> 00:10:25,243 If it is in contact with your skin for more than just a few seconds, 170 00:10:25,294 --> 00:10:27,712 It will produce very serious burns. 171 00:10:27,746 --> 00:10:30,798 If you're lucky, it'll produce a second-degree burn, 172 00:10:30,832 --> 00:10:35,035 If you're not as lucky, you will get third-degree, or full-thickness burns 173 00:10:35,053 --> 00:10:37,453 Requiring skin grafting and surgery. 174 00:10:44,194 --> 00:10:47,847 And if you add up the, uh, burn history of mcdonald's 175 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:55,186 Since January of 1983 until March of uh, '92, 176 00:10:55,220 --> 00:10:59,406 It's over 700 burn cases, and that doesn't surprise you, does it? 177 00:10:59,441 --> 00:11:03,611 I can't say that I'm surprised or not surprised. I'm, I'm glad the number's not higher. 178 00:11:03,662 --> 00:11:05,279 All right. 179 00:11:05,330 --> 00:11:07,330 I'm, I'm really pleased that that's not more than that. 180 00:11:07,365 --> 00:11:10,116 I thought that was, that was terrible 181 00:11:10,167 --> 00:11:12,452 That he was so indifferent about it, you know. 182 00:11:12,502 --> 00:11:16,421 Uh, even if it was just one person, that's enough to pay attention to. 183 00:11:16,456 --> 00:11:19,925 I mean, uh, one person that spoke up. 184 00:11:19,959 --> 00:11:23,911 I'm sure there's more than that, that was damaged with a hot coffee. 185 00:11:25,213 --> 00:11:28,633 But, uh, it's so easy to burn at that temperature, 186 00:11:29,801 --> 00:11:31,285 And they were so indifferent about it. 187 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:33,803 If you were to take a sip of that coffee, 188 00:11:33,854 --> 00:11:36,856 Enough to where you could feel it go down your throat, 189 00:11:36,891 --> 00:11:40,593 You can't do that at 180 to 190 degrees, can you, because you'll be burned. 190 00:11:40,611 --> 00:11:42,679 You better not do that, you will get burned. 191 00:11:49,352 --> 00:11:55,490 We talked about different percentages of how much was her fault versus, you know, 192 00:11:55,541 --> 00:11:57,492 How much was mcdonald's, 193 00:11:57,543 --> 00:12:02,796 And we finally came to assign 20% fault to mrs. Liebeck, 194 00:12:02,830 --> 00:12:05,448 Because she had initially spilled the coffee, 195 00:12:05,466 --> 00:12:11,220 And we assigned 80% of the, uh, blame to mcdonald's, 196 00:12:11,254 --> 00:12:15,925 Because they had a very long history of people being injured, 197 00:12:15,958 --> 00:12:21,513 And they were so adamant that it was such a trivial thing, 198 00:12:21,564 --> 00:12:24,966 That they weren't going to bother to do anything 199 00:12:24,984 --> 00:12:29,420 Other than just continue to rake in the money on their coffee sales. 200 00:12:29,454 --> 00:12:32,088 And the fact that it was their own records 201 00:12:32,122 --> 00:12:35,525 Really damned mcdonald's as far as I was concerned, 202 00:12:35,577 --> 00:12:39,795 Because it was very obvious that they knew there was a problem, 203 00:12:39,830 --> 00:12:42,148 And they were ignoring it completely. 204 00:12:42,166 --> 00:12:46,401 Just totally disregarding the consumers' safety. 205 00:12:51,924 --> 00:12:56,127 We looked at the coffee sales on a daily basis, 206 00:12:56,161 --> 00:13:01,132 And we figured about two days' worth of coffee sales. 207 00:13:01,166 --> 00:13:04,384 We thought that that was, you know, a fair amount, 208 00:13:04,435 --> 00:13:09,388 And punitive damages we, uh, assessed at $2.7 million. 209 00:13:09,439 --> 00:13:16,045 Punitive damages are very rare, and they have a specific purpose, 210 00:13:16,079 --> 00:13:19,747 Which is to essentially change the behavior of the wrongdoer. 211 00:13:19,782 --> 00:13:24,535 Only way you can get the attention of a big company would be, 212 00:13:24,570 --> 00:13:27,988 To, uh, make punitive damages against them, 213 00:13:28,022 --> 00:13:31,807 And this was a very small punitive damage, we thought. 214 00:13:43,536 --> 00:13:45,637 Even though the amount was reduced later, 215 00:13:45,671 --> 00:13:51,892 I think the initial award certainly got everybody's attention, 216 00:13:51,926 --> 00:13:54,212 Not necessarily in a favorable way. 217 00:13:54,230 --> 00:13:58,347 ♪ I sued starbucks, 'cause I spilled a frappuccino in my lap, 218 00:13:58,398 --> 00:13:59,883 ♪ and brr it was cold 219 00:13:59,901 --> 00:14:02,985 ♪ I'm gonna sue, sue, yes I'm gonna sue 220 00:14:03,020 --> 00:14:04,987 ♪ sue, sue 221 00:14:05,022 --> 00:14:09,724 The media in corporate america turned a disadvantage into an advantage, 222 00:14:09,759 --> 00:14:14,196 An extreme advantage, as to how they dealt with this case and its aftermath. 223 00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:19,667 I mean, mrs. Liebeck became a joke, the jury function became a joke, 224 00:14:19,701 --> 00:14:22,902 Notwithstanding of the fact that we had twelve good, 225 00:14:22,921 --> 00:14:25,755 Hardworking new mexico citizens on that jury, 226 00:14:25,790 --> 00:14:28,074 And it was a unanimous verdict. 227 00:14:28,092 --> 00:14:32,095 But they did a masterful job of taking this, this simple verdict 228 00:14:32,179 --> 00:14:34,964 And turning it upside down, as though people like mrs. Liebeck 229 00:14:35,015 --> 00:14:40,252 Are trying to take economic advantage of, of the whole legal system. 230 00:14:40,270 --> 00:14:43,588 The tort reform groups, they love the mcdonald's coffee case, 231 00:14:43,606 --> 00:14:46,641 This was a perfect case for them, because it looked like it was frivolous. 232 00:14:46,692 --> 00:14:51,378 I had heard the word "tort reform" before my mother was injured, 233 00:14:51,412 --> 00:14:56,149 But I, I had never really understood what that meant. 234 00:14:59,537 --> 00:15:04,890 A tort is, uh, a pastry, as far as I know. 235 00:15:04,925 --> 00:15:06,525 It's also some type of funding 236 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:10,495 That the federal government has done, uh, for bailout money, I believe. 237 00:15:10,529 --> 00:15:12,180 Oh, I thought that was tarp. 238 00:15:12,214 --> 00:15:13,531 No, I think it's tort. 239 00:15:13,566 --> 00:15:15,750 Uh... I have no idea what a tort is. 240 00:15:15,784 --> 00:15:18,553 A tort is a piece of... 241 00:15:20,088 --> 00:15:22,423 It's a...I think a tort is a piece of bread 242 00:15:22,457 --> 00:15:27,677 That looks like a hoagie roll, but isn't a hoagie roll. 243 00:15:27,728 --> 00:15:32,732 So a tort is a harm, it's, it's a, when someone commits a tort, 244 00:15:32,766 --> 00:15:34,300 They have harmed you in some way. 245 00:15:34,318 --> 00:15:36,402 I've heard the statement, "tort reform." 246 00:15:36,436 --> 00:15:37,686 Do you know what it means? 247 00:15:37,737 --> 00:15:39,821 No. 248 00:15:39,856 --> 00:15:44,809 Tort reform would mean trying to clean up, the, the logistics of suing people, 249 00:15:44,827 --> 00:15:46,978 Or, or trying to make it easier or harder. 250 00:15:46,996 --> 00:15:49,747 I'm not quite sure which way tort reform tends to work. 251 00:15:49,781 --> 00:15:54,951 Well, tort reform is a term drummed up by some of the advertising people for the uh, 252 00:15:54,985 --> 00:15:56,537 Business sector, 253 00:15:56,571 --> 00:16:00,173 Which is, to limit the likelihood that you can bring a lawsuit. 254 00:16:00,207 --> 00:16:05,894 It is, essentially, laws that restrict people's rights to go to court. 255 00:16:05,929 --> 00:16:07,963 I don't think that the term... I'm not going to say it. 256 00:16:07,996 --> 00:16:11,683 I, I just won't say the word "tort reform," the phrase, that phrase, 257 00:16:11,718 --> 00:16:15,136 Because, um, I don't think that it, uh, 258 00:16:15,170 --> 00:16:17,688 Is an accurate representation of what's really going on. 259 00:16:17,723 --> 00:16:23,226 Ralph nader calls it "tort deform," so I guess reform is in the eyes of the beholder. 260 00:16:23,277 --> 00:16:28,898 But if you want to change a system, which had become, in the late 1970s, 261 00:16:28,949 --> 00:16:32,034 Very, very pro-plaintiff in the view of some, 262 00:16:32,068 --> 00:16:35,988 If you want to change it, usually the word "reform" is used. 263 00:16:37,539 --> 00:16:40,875 This big push to publicize the mcdonald's case 264 00:16:40,910 --> 00:16:43,661 Came in the midst of an attempt to pass federal legislation. 265 00:16:43,695 --> 00:16:46,997 It was going to limit the consumer's right to go to court. 266 00:16:47,031 --> 00:16:49,366 It meant that there were going to be caps on damages, 267 00:16:49,384 --> 00:16:53,003 That there were gonna be all sorts of changes in the rules 268 00:16:53,037 --> 00:16:55,704 Of what you could do in order to bring a case into court. 269 00:16:55,722 --> 00:16:59,175 And so there was this humongous campaign by industry, 270 00:16:59,209 --> 00:17:02,595 Attempting to affect juries, but also attempting to affect senators. 271 00:17:02,679 --> 00:17:05,280 And the mcdonald's case became the poster child 272 00:17:05,314 --> 00:17:07,899 For what's wrong with people going to court and suing. 273 00:17:07,934 --> 00:17:12,436 We looked at the congressional hearings about the tort reform bill, 274 00:17:12,487 --> 00:17:17,524 And we found that the most common reference to justify tort reform 275 00:17:17,558 --> 00:17:19,158 Was the mcdonald's coffee case. 276 00:17:19,193 --> 00:17:21,160 There were not many statistical studies. 277 00:17:21,195 --> 00:17:23,446 The primary evidence was, everybody knows the mcdonald's coffee case, 278 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,498 Therefore we need tort reform. 279 00:17:25,532 --> 00:17:30,370 If a lady goes to a fast food restaurant, puts coffee in her lap, burns her, her legs, 280 00:17:30,403 --> 00:17:32,587 And sues and gets a big settlement, 281 00:17:32,622 --> 00:17:36,675 That in and of...Of itself is enough to tell you why we need to have tort reform. 282 00:17:36,742 --> 00:17:39,845 And in fact what happened was, it did pass the senate, 283 00:17:39,878 --> 00:17:42,463 And, uh, president bill clinton did veto it. 284 00:17:42,514 --> 00:17:45,967 This legislation is arcane, complex, 285 00:17:46,001 --> 00:17:49,019 It has a lot of legalisms and loopholes in it, 286 00:17:49,053 --> 00:17:55,024 But the real fact is, it could have a devastating impact on innocent americans. 287 00:17:55,058 --> 00:17:56,759 And so what happened was, 288 00:17:56,777 --> 00:17:58,610 Corporate america sort of went to a plan b, 289 00:17:58,645 --> 00:18:01,113 So they went to a lot of state legislatures, 290 00:18:01,147 --> 00:18:03,948 And asked the state legislatures to pass laws 291 00:18:03,984 --> 00:18:07,869 That would limit the rights and remedies of individuals in various ways. 292 00:18:07,903 --> 00:18:11,439 And they were constantly on the attack, because they had so many pr firms 293 00:18:11,457 --> 00:18:14,625 That they had hired to go out and do their work in the different states. 294 00:18:14,660 --> 00:18:19,179 A woman was awarded $2.9 million in a lawsuit against mcdonald's. 295 00:18:19,213 --> 00:18:22,614 She spilled hot coffee on her lap while sitting in her car, and claimed it was too hot. 296 00:18:22,632 --> 00:18:27,619 Every day we hear about another outrageous lawsuit. Who pays? You do. 297 00:18:27,637 --> 00:18:31,556 Tell the legislature we can't afford another million dollar cup of coffee. 298 00:18:31,590 --> 00:18:35,610 One of the most significant pr efforts 299 00:18:35,644 --> 00:18:38,563 Was spearheaded by the american tort reform association, 300 00:18:38,580 --> 00:18:40,731 Atra. 301 00:18:40,765 --> 00:18:46,352 The american tort reform association is a group of several hundred businesses 302 00:18:46,403 --> 00:18:49,138 And also colleges and universities, 303 00:18:49,189 --> 00:18:51,157 And I'm their general counsel. 304 00:18:51,191 --> 00:18:53,476 And they are dedicated to try to see 305 00:18:53,494 --> 00:18:56,162 That there's a fair and balanced legal system in the United States. 306 00:18:56,196 --> 00:19:00,999 The american tort reform association was formed in 1986 307 00:19:01,034 --> 00:19:04,953 By about 300 major corporations, 308 00:19:04,987 --> 00:19:09,623 Insurance companies, chemical companies, oil and gas, pharmaceutical companies. 309 00:19:09,657 --> 00:19:13,026 They were going to start advocating for laws all around the country 310 00:19:13,061 --> 00:19:17,013 To limit the liability of all their members. 311 00:19:17,048 --> 00:19:20,183 And so they hired a pr firm, and they came up with these groups called 312 00:19:20,217 --> 00:19:22,919 Citizens against lawsuit abuse. 313 00:19:22,953 --> 00:19:25,320 They were to give the impression 314 00:19:25,355 --> 00:19:29,475 That these were just citizen groups that had sprung up spontaneously. 315 00:19:29,509 --> 00:19:33,194 Astroturf groups. So they looked like they were grassroots groups, 316 00:19:33,228 --> 00:19:36,447 But they really had no people in them, they were all run through the pr firm. 317 00:19:36,482 --> 00:19:38,649 But that's what citizens against lawsuit abuse was. 318 00:19:38,683 --> 00:19:42,502 The tobacco industry was actually funding a lot of this. 319 00:19:42,537 --> 00:19:46,490 That they would funnel money through a washington, dc law firm 320 00:19:46,524 --> 00:19:48,275 Called covington & burling, 321 00:19:48,309 --> 00:19:51,093 That would then distribute tobacco money 322 00:19:51,128 --> 00:19:55,363 To some of these citizens against lawsuit abuse groups. 323 00:19:55,381 --> 00:20:00,085 Was there any distortions by people in the media, by politicians, 324 00:20:00,136 --> 00:20:02,170 By people who wanted tort reform? 325 00:20:02,204 --> 00:20:05,340 Sometimes stories were repeated, and repeated over and over again, 326 00:20:05,374 --> 00:20:07,375 It happens all the time, 327 00:20:07,393 --> 00:20:11,311 That were not, uh, true, or they were unfounded. I don't think it was intentional. 328 00:20:11,346 --> 00:20:13,180 Listen to just a few cases. 329 00:20:13,214 --> 00:20:17,183 I hope I won't be repeating some that maybe have already been told to you. 330 00:20:17,217 --> 00:20:21,387 In california, a man was using a public telephone booth to place a call. 331 00:20:21,405 --> 00:20:24,656 An alleged drunk driver careened down the street, 332 00:20:24,690 --> 00:20:28,059 Lost control of her car, and crashed into the phone booth. 333 00:20:28,077 --> 00:20:30,946 Now it's no surprise that the injured man sued, 334 00:20:30,997 --> 00:20:34,899 But you might be startled to hear whom he sued. 335 00:20:34,917 --> 00:20:38,735 The telephone company and associated firms. 336 00:20:38,753 --> 00:20:40,920 That's right. 337 00:20:40,955 --> 00:20:44,707 There's a telephone booth on the corner of a very busy intersection in los angeles, 338 00:20:44,742 --> 00:20:47,961 And this guy was standing inside, and he saw this car coming right at him, 339 00:20:48,012 --> 00:20:50,830 And he tried to get out of the phone booth, and the door stuck. 340 00:20:50,865 --> 00:20:53,715 And the reason that this was the fault of the telephone company 341 00:20:53,749 --> 00:20:55,350 Is that there'd been lots of other cases 342 00:20:55,385 --> 00:20:57,918 Where this telephone booth had been hit by cars, 343 00:20:57,936 --> 00:21:00,254 'cause it was in a very dangerous position, 344 00:21:00,289 --> 00:21:03,975 And it hadn't been properly repaired, so the guy couldn't get out! 345 00:21:04,026 --> 00:21:06,144 And so he was hit inside the phone booth. 346 00:21:06,195 --> 00:21:08,062 He lost his leg. He was extremely ill. 347 00:21:08,096 --> 00:21:12,098 You know, it was not the source of real humor the way reagan had portrayed it. 348 00:21:12,116 --> 00:21:13,617 So there were a lot of stories like that. 349 00:21:13,651 --> 00:21:16,403 For me, you know, not being a lawyer, I'm a journalist, 350 00:21:16,437 --> 00:21:20,406 And I felt like journalists had just really not done a good job of covering, 351 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:24,792 And that they had fallen for lots of public relations ruses 352 00:21:24,827 --> 00:21:26,711 That they should know better about. 353 00:21:26,745 --> 00:21:31,499 There was even a story of somebody taking a lawnmower to trim a hedge, 354 00:21:31,550 --> 00:21:34,452 And there was a lawsuit, and actually it never occurred. 355 00:21:34,470 --> 00:21:38,588 So there were some scare tactics that really didn't have basis in fact. 356 00:21:38,622 --> 00:21:41,591 I didn't take this job to sit around and worry about getting sued. 357 00:21:41,625 --> 00:21:43,509 If we don't stop lawsuit abuse, 358 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,311 I might not be able to do my job. 359 00:21:45,345 --> 00:21:48,963 And my job just might be to save your life. 360 00:21:48,981 --> 00:21:52,150 Join the jury against lawsuit abuse. 361 00:21:52,185 --> 00:21:56,905 It was supposedly just a group of business people and community leaders 362 00:21:56,939 --> 00:21:58,973 Who were acting on their own, when in fact, 363 00:21:58,991 --> 00:22:02,077 It was a carefully orchestrated campaign, 364 00:22:02,111 --> 00:22:07,146 Orchestrated out of washington, dc with the help of people like karl rove, 365 00:22:07,164 --> 00:22:12,752 Who had their own business and financial interest in pushing the agenda of tort reform, 366 00:22:12,786 --> 00:22:16,256 And making it look like it was a totally spontaneous event. 367 00:22:16,290 --> 00:22:22,327 Texas must end the junk lawsuits that clog our courts and threaten our producers. 368 00:22:24,980 --> 00:22:27,616 In texas in the mid '90s, you had karl rove, 369 00:22:27,684 --> 00:22:29,884 And then-candidate bush come along, 370 00:22:29,918 --> 00:22:32,669 And see that there was a real political advantage 371 00:22:32,687 --> 00:22:34,688 To talking about so-called tort reform. 372 00:22:34,722 --> 00:22:38,775 Karl rove was, in the early 1990s, a consultant for phillip morris, 373 00:22:38,809 --> 00:22:40,142 For the tobacco industry. 374 00:22:40,176 --> 00:22:43,112 He was working for phillip morris and bush at the same time. 375 00:22:43,146 --> 00:22:46,265 He was on the phillip morris payroll. So he had a lot of ties to these folks. 376 00:22:46,299 --> 00:22:52,121 Rove saw that if he used tort reform, and if his candidates ran on tort reform, 377 00:22:52,155 --> 00:22:54,455 It would make it that much easier for him 378 00:22:54,490 --> 00:22:56,441 To open the pockets of the business community. 379 00:22:56,475 --> 00:23:00,578 And then, once governor bush was elected, uh, it was katy bar the door. 380 00:23:00,629 --> 00:23:04,915 They implemented all of the things that interests like insurance companies, 381 00:23:04,966 --> 00:23:08,085 And the health care industry, and others wanted in texas. 382 00:23:08,136 --> 00:23:13,673 And so it's with great pleasure that I sign a cap on punitive damages, 383 00:23:13,707 --> 00:23:17,342 That will add certainty to the business climate. 384 00:23:19,312 --> 00:23:23,098 And a lot of the people who had been his biggest financial backers in texas, 385 00:23:23,149 --> 00:23:26,900 They followed him right to the white house. So he kept going. 386 00:23:26,935 --> 00:23:31,188 No one has ever been healed by a frivolous lawsuit. 387 00:23:31,221 --> 00:23:35,057 I urge the congress to pass medical liability reform. 388 00:23:35,075 --> 00:23:42,532 Our economy is held back by irresponsible class actions, and frivolous asbestos claims, 389 00:23:42,566 --> 00:23:47,753 And I urge congress to pass legal reforms this year. 390 00:23:47,787 --> 00:23:51,289 Because lawsuits are driving many good doctors out of practice, 391 00:23:51,340 --> 00:23:57,044 Leaving women in nearly 1500 american counties without a single obgyn, 392 00:23:57,095 --> 00:24:01,965 I ask the congress to pass medical liability reform this year. 393 00:24:02,016 --> 00:24:04,067 He was tort-reformer-in-chief. 394 00:24:04,101 --> 00:24:08,253 He really brought the issue to center stage in a way nobody else had ever done. 395 00:24:08,271 --> 00:24:11,223 Too many good docs are getting out of business. 396 00:24:11,257 --> 00:24:14,593 Too many obgyns aren't able to practice their, 397 00:24:14,628 --> 00:24:16,595 Their love with women all across this country. 398 00:24:16,613 --> 00:24:20,565 We're a litigious society. Everybody's suing, it seems like. 399 00:24:20,599 --> 00:24:24,619 There are too many lawsuits in america... 400 00:24:24,653 --> 00:24:28,271 If you have the right words that evoke your whole system of thought, 401 00:24:28,289 --> 00:24:30,390 And your way of understanding an issue, 402 00:24:30,425 --> 00:24:34,294 And when that language is repeated over and over, the brain changes. 403 00:24:34,329 --> 00:24:37,997 The circuitry gets stronger, and can become permanent. 404 00:24:38,048 --> 00:24:42,051 In my line of work you gotta keep repeating things over and over and over again, 405 00:24:42,969 --> 00:24:45,453 For the truth to sink in. 406 00:24:45,471 --> 00:24:48,790 To kind of catapult the propaganda. 407 00:24:48,808 --> 00:24:50,841 So they would get their message out there, 408 00:24:50,892 --> 00:24:56,296 And then the public would pressure their local legislators 409 00:24:56,314 --> 00:25:00,801 To enact caps on damages and other kinds of liability limits. 410 00:25:00,819 --> 00:25:03,854 So there was a direct link between the pr that was done, 411 00:25:03,905 --> 00:25:06,723 And ultimately the passage of laws. 412 00:25:21,253 --> 00:25:22,420 That's for everybody? 413 00:25:22,454 --> 00:25:23,454 Yeah. 414 00:25:23,488 --> 00:25:24,655 All right! 415 00:25:28,175 --> 00:25:31,661 We got 16 candles we have to put in here, because you're 16 years old. 416 00:25:31,679 --> 00:25:34,264 So pick up one. 417 00:25:34,298 --> 00:25:40,219 This has to be the top. Turn it around, so that you have a hold of this part, 418 00:25:40,270 --> 00:25:42,721 And then you're going to put it in up there. 419 00:25:42,772 --> 00:25:44,723 Any place you want. 420 00:25:45,841 --> 00:25:47,174 Put it there. 421 00:25:48,861 --> 00:25:51,229 Okay, now let me show you what you need to do, you need to take... 422 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:52,980 Don't laugh. 423 00:25:53,014 --> 00:25:56,683 They're not, they're not gonna laugh. Take a hold of it, here I'll help you. 424 00:25:56,701 --> 00:25:58,785 I had no idea what tort reform was. 425 00:25:58,820 --> 00:26:03,038 I had no idea that there were caps on damages here in nebraska, 426 00:26:03,073 --> 00:26:05,591 Um, prior to colin's case. 427 00:26:05,625 --> 00:26:09,995 Caps on damages, I think, is something that exists when there... 428 00:26:10,029 --> 00:26:13,498 When there is misuse in the system, so I, 429 00:26:13,532 --> 00:26:18,135 I would trust, just as someone has the right to access the courts, uh, 430 00:26:18,169 --> 00:26:22,557 There should be a body overseeing it, and regulating it, and uh, 431 00:26:22,591 --> 00:26:24,675 And that's what a cap is. 432 00:26:24,709 --> 00:26:27,878 A cap is, is public oversight on abuse. 433 00:26:27,896 --> 00:26:31,881 No, it's a, it's a limit for how much money you can get from, like, 434 00:26:31,899 --> 00:26:35,685 The tobacco company that killed your wife because of lung cancer or... 435 00:26:35,719 --> 00:26:37,386 Right. 436 00:26:37,404 --> 00:26:40,188 I don't know, you can only sue your doctor for so much, right, isn't that... 437 00:26:40,222 --> 00:26:43,241 Right, because there's abuse, and so you have to set a limit. 438 00:26:43,276 --> 00:26:49,229 One of the most common so-called tort reforms is what's called caps on damages, 439 00:26:49,247 --> 00:26:54,117 Or limits on the amount of money that a jury or a judge can award to somebody 440 00:26:54,168 --> 00:26:56,570 After they've been hurt and won their case. 441 00:26:56,588 --> 00:27:00,123 Their opportunity to get compensation is strictly limited. 442 00:27:00,157 --> 00:27:05,744 I, I want to be honest with you, I'm not advocating caps on malpractice awards. 443 00:27:09,682 --> 00:27:11,800 Which I believe, uh, I personally believe 444 00:27:11,851 --> 00:27:15,019 Can be unfair to people who've, uh, been wrongfully harmed. 445 00:27:18,689 --> 00:27:21,058 Wow, you're a big helper. 446 00:27:21,093 --> 00:27:22,226 I know that. 447 00:27:23,811 --> 00:27:28,280 I was 36 weeks along, um, 448 00:27:28,315 --> 00:27:31,433 Pregnant with identical twin boys, 449 00:27:31,451 --> 00:27:37,605 And I noticed the night before my regularly scheduled doctor's appointment, 450 00:27:37,623 --> 00:27:41,160 That the movement...Normally when I'd go to bed the, 451 00:27:41,211 --> 00:27:43,545 The babies would be really moving around a lot, 452 00:27:43,579 --> 00:27:46,414 And I noticed that they weren't moving around very much, 453 00:27:46,448 --> 00:27:50,300 And I just kind of felt like, you know, this is kind of weird. 454 00:27:50,335 --> 00:27:54,837 And I, I'm going to the doctor in the morning, I'll talk to her about it. 455 00:27:54,888 --> 00:27:58,291 And I went in, and I told her, and she's like, well let's listen to the heartbeats, 456 00:27:58,308 --> 00:28:00,476 And she listened to the heartbeats, 457 00:28:00,511 --> 00:28:03,228 And, um, she said, you know, the heartbeats are normal, 458 00:28:03,262 --> 00:28:06,214 Every, you know, it sounds, you know, everything looks good. 459 00:28:06,249 --> 00:28:09,401 And so, um, I was reassured... 460 00:28:19,377 --> 00:28:23,196 It's really important to determine how many placentas, 461 00:28:23,230 --> 00:28:27,250 When you're pregnant with twins, that if there's only one placenta, 462 00:28:27,284 --> 00:28:28,952 Then it's a high-risk pregnancy. 463 00:28:28,986 --> 00:28:32,621 So when I went in with my concern on Monday, 464 00:28:32,655 --> 00:28:35,958 It should have been immediately followed up with an ultrasound, 465 00:28:35,992 --> 00:28:37,759 And, you know, a stress test. 466 00:28:37,794 --> 00:28:40,545 And had they done that, they would have seen what was happening was 467 00:28:40,597 --> 00:28:42,547 The twin-to-twin transfusion syndrome, 468 00:28:42,598 --> 00:28:47,518 Where one baby starts getting everything, and the other baby's getting nothing. 469 00:28:48,853 --> 00:28:52,355 Um, the next day, the movement was less, 470 00:28:52,390 --> 00:28:56,475 And then the, the next day, the movement was even less, 471 00:28:56,509 --> 00:28:59,395 And I became, I started to become really concerned, 472 00:28:59,446 --> 00:29:05,016 And I called the doctor's office. And, um, we're going to see dr. Knolla's partner. 473 00:29:05,068 --> 00:29:07,286 He said "come on, let's go do an ultrasound." 474 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:11,205 And he showed the heartbeat of one of the babies, and it was so slow, 475 00:29:11,289 --> 00:29:13,373 It was, like, almost gonna stop. 476 00:29:13,408 --> 00:29:17,360 And he said, you know, "there's not a lot of fluid around one of the babies, 477 00:29:17,378 --> 00:29:19,713 "and we need to deliver the babies right away." 478 00:29:37,663 --> 00:29:43,017 Colin suffered, uh, severe brain damage to all areas of the brain. 479 00:29:43,051 --> 00:29:46,236 They just said that it must have been from a lack of oxygen or, or whatever, 480 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,406 But they didn't really say how it happened or why it happened, 481 00:29:50,441 --> 00:29:53,943 Or give us any further background, 482 00:29:53,994 --> 00:29:58,780 And I guess that kind of led us to keep asking questions, and keep looking for answers. 483 00:29:58,831 --> 00:30:03,085 Well, I've got one son that's perfectly normal, he's a, you know, a normal child, 484 00:30:03,119 --> 00:30:07,421 And I've got one son who has severe brain damage, and they were born at the same time. 485 00:30:07,456 --> 00:30:09,590 You know, what happened here? 486 00:30:09,625 --> 00:30:12,409 The gourleys also never knew that before they went to see dr. Knolla, 487 00:30:12,427 --> 00:30:14,295 She'd been in court before. 488 00:30:14,346 --> 00:30:17,515 Sued two other times, both for malpractice. 489 00:30:17,548 --> 00:30:20,917 According to court records in 1987 and 1989, 490 00:30:20,935 --> 00:30:24,054 Dr. Knolla was accused of botching two pelvic operations. 491 00:30:24,088 --> 00:30:28,256 It appears both cases were settled secretly, but legally, out of court. 492 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:35,813 At trial, it came out that the injury was caused by a lack of blood flow 493 00:30:35,864 --> 00:30:38,515 From the placenta through the cord, 494 00:30:38,549 --> 00:30:41,836 And oxygen depletion of the brain for five to eight minutes 495 00:30:41,870 --> 00:30:44,270 Is what caused the damage. 496 00:30:44,288 --> 00:30:47,940 So not knowing, I mean looking back, 497 00:30:47,958 --> 00:30:51,378 All that time was so critical, you know. 498 00:30:51,412 --> 00:30:55,715 It was, I mean had they just, you know, delivered him right away... 499 00:30:55,749 --> 00:31:02,137 And the nurses testified that the doctor had called over to the hospital 500 00:31:02,171 --> 00:31:06,173 And they'd had the or prepared and ready, but the doctors weren't there. 501 00:31:06,225 --> 00:31:08,726 You know, you just start thinking all these things, 502 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:13,147 And why didn't they do an ultrasound on that Monday, you know? 503 00:31:13,181 --> 00:31:14,664 And then, you know, 504 00:31:14,699 --> 00:31:19,736 I went through, for about three years, of "why didn't I just ask?" 505 00:31:19,770 --> 00:31:23,690 You know, I kind of blamed myself, 506 00:31:23,724 --> 00:31:25,491 For a while, um, 507 00:31:27,443 --> 00:31:33,165 you know, but you, you just want to change what happened, 508 00:31:34,583 --> 00:31:37,035 And knowing that it was preventable. 509 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:45,041 The economists at the time said that he would need $6 million, 510 00:31:45,092 --> 00:31:47,177 At the time of the trial, 511 00:31:47,211 --> 00:31:50,880 For him to have enough money to take care of him for the rest of his life. 512 00:31:53,683 --> 00:31:55,768 All right, here we go. 513 00:32:16,554 --> 00:32:22,007 In most instances when you have a lawsuit where a cap statute is involved, 514 00:32:22,042 --> 00:32:25,044 The jury doesn't know that there's a cap statute. 515 00:32:25,078 --> 00:32:30,548 So if the jury renders an award which is higher than the cap statute, 516 00:32:30,583 --> 00:32:32,834 The trial judge, after the trial, 517 00:32:32,868 --> 00:32:36,320 Then reduces the verdict to the amount of the cap. 518 00:32:36,354 --> 00:32:40,891 And so it actually, it takes away the power of the jury 519 00:32:40,925 --> 00:32:45,728 To make a determination as to what a fair and reasonable amount should be for damages. 520 00:32:45,763 --> 00:32:47,930 That's in the bill of rights, 521 00:32:47,981 --> 00:32:51,149 That juries, not legislators, 522 00:32:51,184 --> 00:32:54,069 Get to determine questions of fact in the court room, 523 00:32:54,103 --> 00:32:58,940 And one of the most important issues of fact decided in a civil jury trial 524 00:32:58,991 --> 00:33:03,661 Is what the appropriate damages are to compensate someone who has been injured 525 00:33:03,695 --> 00:33:06,614 Due to the fault of another, you would agree with that? 526 00:33:06,665 --> 00:33:07,915 I don't disagree with that. 527 00:33:07,949 --> 00:33:12,703 So, so why does the u.S. Chamber spend so much money 528 00:33:12,736 --> 00:33:17,257 Trying to convince us that we know more 529 00:33:17,291 --> 00:33:20,909 About the value of someone's injury or death 530 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,578 Than the people who elected us to congress, 531 00:33:23,596 --> 00:33:27,098 Who go into jury boxes all over this country, 532 00:33:27,132 --> 00:33:29,934 Under the seventh amendment to the bill of rights? 533 00:33:29,968 --> 00:33:34,587 The judge ruled that the cap here in nebraska was unconstitutional, 534 00:33:34,605 --> 00:33:38,892 That, um, it violated your rights to a jury trial. 535 00:33:38,926 --> 00:33:42,879 And then the doctors and the insurance company appealed the case 536 00:33:42,914 --> 00:33:44,980 To the nebraska supreme court, 537 00:33:45,031 --> 00:33:51,203 And the nebraska supreme court came back and found the cap constitutional. 538 00:33:51,238 --> 00:33:54,105 I've been involved in the tort reform issues in nebraska for a long time, 539 00:33:54,124 --> 00:33:57,441 But most recently as a member of the professional liability committee 540 00:33:57,459 --> 00:33:59,661 Of the nebraska medical association, 541 00:33:59,712 --> 00:34:04,047 And subsequent to that, the colorado physicians insurance company, 542 00:34:04,082 --> 00:34:06,833 Which is the major malpractice carrier for this region. 543 00:34:06,885 --> 00:34:10,770 In nebraska, we have a total cap that includes all damages, 544 00:34:10,804 --> 00:34:13,356 Whether it be economic or non-economic damages. 545 00:34:13,390 --> 00:34:17,510 So caps on damages can be three kinds. There can be caps on punitive damages 546 00:34:17,544 --> 00:34:18,961 In some states, 547 00:34:18,979 --> 00:34:21,746 There's caps on non-economic damages in many states, 548 00:34:21,782 --> 00:34:25,400 And in a very, very few states there could be caps on the entire amount 549 00:34:25,434 --> 00:34:27,601 That a plaintiff can get. 550 00:34:27,635 --> 00:34:30,437 Economic damages, you can think about those as your out-of-pocket cost. 551 00:34:30,472 --> 00:34:33,289 They're your health care expenses, your lost wages, 552 00:34:33,324 --> 00:34:39,529 And non-economic damages are for pain, suffering, the loss of enjoyment of life, 553 00:34:39,580 --> 00:34:43,316 The harm that's been done to them that is difficult to measure in money. 554 00:34:43,334 --> 00:34:45,418 But there needs to be some reason, 555 00:34:45,452 --> 00:34:48,003 When it comes to non-economic damages in the system. 556 00:34:48,037 --> 00:34:54,710 And that's why I've proposed a hard cap of $250,000 on non-economic damages. 557 00:34:57,713 --> 00:35:02,983 I think a cap on non-economic damages of $250,000 makes some sense 558 00:35:03,017 --> 00:35:07,386 For most of the states in the United States, 'cause there's such a soft and squishy type 559 00:35:07,437 --> 00:35:11,640 Of, of, of, damages, and difficult to determine, I think that makes some sense. 560 00:35:11,674 --> 00:35:15,944 It's an arbitrary number that bears no relationship 561 00:35:15,979 --> 00:35:19,148 To the harm that the plaintiff suffered, 562 00:35:19,182 --> 00:35:24,469 And also, it has a disproportionate impact on people in certain situations. 563 00:35:24,503 --> 00:35:29,506 If you've been blinded, permanently disabled, disfigured in some way, 564 00:35:29,540 --> 00:35:33,327 Or you're a woman and your reproductive system has been harmed in some way, 565 00:35:33,361 --> 00:35:36,829 Those injuries are non-economic in nature, 566 00:35:36,863 --> 00:35:39,548 And someone deserves to be compensated for that. 567 00:35:39,583 --> 00:35:40,800 Okay, guys. 568 00:35:42,535 --> 00:35:44,519 Colin? Colin. 569 00:35:44,553 --> 00:35:45,503 Boo! 570 00:35:47,423 --> 00:35:50,308 They're identical twins, but there's nothing really very identical about 'em. 571 00:35:50,343 --> 00:35:53,877 I mean conner's a, pretty much a normal boy, 572 00:35:53,895 --> 00:35:57,898 I mean he grew up and played baseball and soccer, 573 00:35:57,933 --> 00:36:01,351 And, you know, just did what boys normally do, 574 00:36:01,385 --> 00:36:03,988 And colin on the other hand, he grew up, 575 00:36:04,022 --> 00:36:06,356 The first surgery, I think, was when he was, was he one? 576 00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:07,607 One. 577 00:36:07,658 --> 00:36:09,525 One. He had, he had to have eye surgery. 578 00:36:09,559 --> 00:36:13,496 There was optical nerve damage in the brain injury. 579 00:36:13,530 --> 00:36:16,331 It was part of the brain injury. So he, he doesn't see real well. 580 00:36:16,366 --> 00:36:18,582 And then he started having to go to therapy, 581 00:36:18,617 --> 00:36:20,953 When he was about two, I think we started taking him to therapy? 582 00:36:21,004 --> 00:36:22,336 Mmm-hmm. 583 00:36:22,371 --> 00:36:24,622 And that was pretty intense, 584 00:36:24,673 --> 00:36:27,007 And they finally got him to where he could hold his head up, 585 00:36:27,074 --> 00:36:28,626 And then where he could sit up. 586 00:36:28,677 --> 00:36:33,880 Then as he, he grew older, he's obviously mentally delayed. 587 00:36:33,914 --> 00:36:35,131 He's... 588 00:36:35,182 --> 00:36:37,466 He, he didn't even know the days of the week. 589 00:36:40,137 --> 00:36:43,605 The jury heard the evidence, and they said okay, well, 590 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:48,644 We're, 5.6 million, I think, is probably what they, what he needs, and that was close, 591 00:36:48,694 --> 00:36:50,761 We could've made that work. 592 00:36:50,779 --> 00:36:52,981 I mean, that would have been enough money that he'd have people to take care of him, 593 00:36:53,032 --> 00:36:56,583 If we're gone, or whatever. He would have been okay for the rest of his life. 594 00:36:56,617 --> 00:37:02,104 And then the cap comes in and says, "no, no, no, no, that's not right." 595 00:37:02,122 --> 00:37:04,106 You get this amount of money and then, you know, 596 00:37:04,124 --> 00:37:06,826 Pay your lawyers out of that, and pay your, some medical bills, 597 00:37:06,877 --> 00:37:10,611 And so colin ends up with a few hundred thousand dollars. 598 00:37:10,629 --> 00:37:14,466 And so what happens is then, he goes onto medicaid, 599 00:37:14,500 --> 00:37:18,720 And the taxpayers have to pay, pick up the bill for his care. 600 00:37:18,754 --> 00:37:21,221 Dad. Dad! 601 00:37:21,256 --> 00:37:22,256 What? 602 00:37:22,290 --> 00:37:23,675 It's falling apart. 603 00:37:23,725 --> 00:37:25,959 It is. Is it getting your hand all dirty? 604 00:37:26,011 --> 00:37:27,861 No. 605 00:37:27,896 --> 00:37:30,147 Oh, it is broke, look at that. 606 00:37:30,181 --> 00:37:34,934 It's not just an economic need, there are moral issues involved here. 607 00:37:34,985 --> 00:37:39,404 And what a cap does is, it relieves the wrongdoer, often a company, 608 00:37:39,473 --> 00:37:42,090 Or a health care provider, 609 00:37:42,125 --> 00:37:46,660 Of the responsibility they have for the damage that they caused. 610 00:37:46,695 --> 00:37:49,247 Medical groups like the nebraska medical association 611 00:37:49,281 --> 00:37:51,982 Applauded the nebraska supreme court's decision Friday. 612 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,652 They say it will keep malpractice insurance costs down for doctors, 613 00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:58,121 And that, in turn, will keep down medical costs. 614 00:37:58,155 --> 00:38:00,490 When states enact caps on damages, 615 00:38:00,508 --> 00:38:04,643 Doctors' insurance premiums typically do not go down. 616 00:38:04,677 --> 00:38:09,114 And it's interesting that when these various limitations 617 00:38:09,149 --> 00:38:11,967 Are enacted in various states, 618 00:38:12,017 --> 00:38:16,854 There's never a requirement that the insurance companies pass any savings along 619 00:38:16,889 --> 00:38:18,556 To the policy holder. 620 00:38:18,607 --> 00:38:21,309 The insurance companies are charging still, I think, a lot of money 621 00:38:21,343 --> 00:38:25,479 To doctors in nebraska, and they're not having to pay out very much money in nebraska. 622 00:38:25,513 --> 00:38:28,982 So what are they, they're making, it's their little pot of gold. 623 00:38:29,016 --> 00:38:31,484 The insurance industry says, 624 00:38:31,519 --> 00:38:34,653 "well don't look at us, it's not our fault that rates are going up. 625 00:38:34,687 --> 00:38:39,458 "it's all those juries and judges and lawyers and, and victims that are suing us. 626 00:38:39,492 --> 00:38:41,409 "it's all their fault." 627 00:38:41,460 --> 00:38:45,463 Those excessive jury awards cost us all money, 628 00:38:45,498 --> 00:38:49,133 And it's part of why, rising, why there's rising costs, uh, 629 00:38:49,167 --> 00:38:51,919 In the health care, health care system. 630 00:38:51,970 --> 00:38:55,255 If it was true that medical malpractice litigation 631 00:38:55,306 --> 00:38:56,806 Actually drove up health care cost, 632 00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,393 Then we would expect that since 2003, when basically nobody, 633 00:39:00,427 --> 00:39:04,564 No patient was allowed to hold a doctor or hospital accountable anymore, in texas, 634 00:39:04,598 --> 00:39:08,433 We would expect that health care costs, heath care spending would go down. 635 00:39:08,484 --> 00:39:09,885 Well, in fact, the opposite is true. 636 00:39:09,919 --> 00:39:12,270 Health care spending has been going up in texas, 637 00:39:12,321 --> 00:39:14,222 At a rate higher than the national average 638 00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:17,525 Since we restricted patients' rights to access the courthouse. 639 00:39:17,559 --> 00:39:20,578 So, the myth just doesn't jive with reality. 640 00:39:22,730 --> 00:39:27,951 Over these years there's a whole lot of things that I want to say about caps, 641 00:39:28,002 --> 00:39:30,702 And, and to say just how they've affected us 642 00:39:30,736 --> 00:39:33,755 Doesn't really, um, 643 00:39:33,790 --> 00:39:36,175 I don't know, it doesn't really hit the nail on the head so much. 644 00:39:36,209 --> 00:39:38,627 I mean, it affected us obviously, I mean we have a, 645 00:39:38,678 --> 00:39:45,216 We have a, a son who will never be able to grow up and earn his own living, 646 00:39:45,250 --> 00:39:47,917 Never go off to college, never have his own family. 647 00:39:47,935 --> 00:39:50,920 I mean, he'll require care for the rest of his life. 648 00:39:50,938 --> 00:39:53,557 And so, how does the cap affect you? 649 00:39:53,591 --> 00:39:57,894 It, it makes his future unknown. 650 00:39:57,928 --> 00:40:03,582 I mean, you have this person that you're responsible for, and that you love, 651 00:40:03,617 --> 00:40:08,870 That you don't know, if you're gone, what's going to happen to him. 652 00:40:11,574 --> 00:40:15,576 I mean, if it's your child, take your child, and say you're gone, 653 00:40:15,610 --> 00:40:18,629 And give him to the state, and let the state do whatever they want with him. 654 00:40:18,663 --> 00:40:20,414 And, is that what you want for your child? 655 00:40:21,716 --> 00:40:23,833 That's not what I want for my child, 656 00:40:23,884 --> 00:40:27,136 Especially when your child can't ever grow up and take care of themselves. 657 00:40:27,171 --> 00:40:30,122 They're relying on people to take care of them. 658 00:40:31,457 --> 00:40:33,391 So, that's how the cap affects you. 659 00:40:34,293 --> 00:40:35,427 I know that. 660 00:40:35,461 --> 00:40:36,595 Do you want to come to the table? 661 00:40:36,629 --> 00:40:38,013 No. 662 00:40:38,064 --> 00:40:40,649 In many respects, these laws violate 663 00:40:40,683 --> 00:40:43,601 State constitutional provisions that protect people's rights. 664 00:40:43,635 --> 00:40:49,089 And, in order to protect those new laws against challenge in the courts, 665 00:40:49,124 --> 00:40:52,358 The business community decided that it was important to them 666 00:40:52,409 --> 00:40:55,144 To stack the deck in their favor, 667 00:40:55,162 --> 00:40:58,281 Um, with the supreme courts of various states. 668 00:40:58,315 --> 00:41:01,333 They wanted their own set of judges who would be deciding 669 00:41:01,368 --> 00:41:05,369 Whether these restrictions on people's rights would be upheld. 670 00:41:22,820 --> 00:41:24,603 Watch out, snick. Watch out, snickers. 671 00:41:28,341 --> 00:41:31,727 My grisham books. Some of them, anyway. 672 00:41:33,530 --> 00:41:35,897 When was this, this was written, uh, two years ago, 673 00:41:35,948 --> 00:41:38,116 John decided to write the appeal. 674 00:41:38,150 --> 00:41:42,319 He talked to me about it, 'cause he wanted me to help him get the, 675 00:41:42,353 --> 00:41:44,021 Get the details right in the book. 676 00:41:44,039 --> 00:41:46,206 He likes the books to be accurate. 677 00:41:46,241 --> 00:41:50,910 It's about, it's interesting, because it's about uh, it sort of tracks what I went through. 678 00:41:50,961 --> 00:41:54,196 It's about a mississippi supreme court justice running for re-election, 679 00:41:54,214 --> 00:41:59,168 And, uh, being, uh, attacked by these out-of-state big business interest groups 680 00:41:59,202 --> 00:42:03,221 That are coming in, trying to defeat the incumbent supreme court justice, 681 00:42:03,256 --> 00:42:07,841 So that they can get their corporate interests on the, um, you know, on the court. 682 00:42:07,875 --> 00:42:09,727 So, yeah. 683 00:42:12,147 --> 00:42:15,481 As the legislature would try to effect tort reform, 684 00:42:15,516 --> 00:42:16,733 If it did get into law, 685 00:42:16,767 --> 00:42:19,052 Then it came down to the courts to decide 686 00:42:19,070 --> 00:42:21,154 Whether or not that law was constitutional. 687 00:42:21,188 --> 00:42:23,556 And, there started to be decisions around the country 688 00:42:23,574 --> 00:42:26,492 That said that these laws were not constitutional, that they went too far. 689 00:42:26,527 --> 00:42:29,161 So then, the businesses decide, 690 00:42:29,195 --> 00:42:31,280 Well we can't pass those laws, 691 00:42:31,331 --> 00:42:35,200 What we can do is to try and have judges who decide these cases 692 00:42:35,234 --> 00:42:38,035 Be really conservative, business-oriented judges. 693 00:42:38,069 --> 00:42:41,739 Karl rove developed this plan, and worked with the chamber of commerce 694 00:42:41,757 --> 00:42:46,627 To influence the outcome of key judicial races around the country. 695 00:42:46,677 --> 00:42:48,411 They put in place a pretty aggressive campaign, 696 00:42:48,429 --> 00:42:51,247 Ranking which states are most important for them to be in, 697 00:42:51,282 --> 00:42:55,135 And putting tens of millions of dollars a year into these elections that often had 698 00:42:55,185 --> 00:42:57,185 Tiny amounts of money. 699 00:42:57,220 --> 00:43:01,422 I started getting calls from karl in the middle-to-late 1980s, 700 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:05,593 As he began his work representing, at the beginning, 701 00:43:05,610 --> 00:43:08,562 State supreme court candidates in texas. 702 00:43:08,596 --> 00:43:10,947 Rove was able to put together a franchise, basically, 703 00:43:10,982 --> 00:43:15,435 To elect republicans who he was representing, 704 00:43:15,453 --> 00:43:19,573 With a guarantee that they would have well-financed races, 705 00:43:19,607 --> 00:43:24,160 And business interests got supreme court judges who were going to rule their way 706 00:43:24,244 --> 00:43:27,545 On business cases, and on tort cases. 707 00:43:27,580 --> 00:43:32,784 By the time you reach the 1990s, this core of conservative, republican, 708 00:43:32,802 --> 00:43:34,619 Tort-minded judges 709 00:43:34,637 --> 00:43:39,690 Were ruling overwhelmingly for some of the largest corporate interests in texas. 710 00:43:45,180 --> 00:43:48,548 It's a model that they used, and they exported to other states. 711 00:43:48,582 --> 00:43:50,016 It's a good payoff. 712 00:43:50,067 --> 00:43:53,085 It's a good payoff. You put money in a judicial race, uh, 713 00:43:53,119 --> 00:43:57,522 You spend $100,000 to help uh, uh, challenge a, a judicial candidate, 714 00:43:57,573 --> 00:44:00,141 It can have literally a million dollar impact on your company. 715 00:44:00,159 --> 00:44:04,495 And it seems that that's happening more and more throughout the country. 716 00:44:04,529 --> 00:44:09,650 That, uh, our state supreme courts are reversing civil juries in this country 717 00:44:09,685 --> 00:44:12,502 At an unprecedented level, 718 00:44:12,536 --> 00:44:15,505 After seeing the gifts of millions of dollars. 719 00:44:15,589 --> 00:44:18,990 Last week, the supreme court reversed a century of law 720 00:44:19,008 --> 00:44:22,544 That I believe will open the floodgates for special interests, 721 00:44:22,595 --> 00:44:24,997 Including foreign corporations, 722 00:44:25,031 --> 00:44:27,498 To spend without limit in our elections. 723 00:44:40,378 --> 00:44:44,798 If you get five people, in our state we have nine, so the majority is five, 724 00:44:44,832 --> 00:44:50,686 You get five judges that have that persuasion to be always with the doctors, 725 00:44:50,704 --> 00:44:53,021 Or be always with the corporations, 726 00:44:53,055 --> 00:44:55,490 You have court reform. 727 00:44:55,524 --> 00:45:00,061 And that is more deadly than tort reform ever thought about being. 728 00:45:00,096 --> 00:45:03,430 That's what this karl rove chamber is about, 729 00:45:03,465 --> 00:45:05,883 And they came into these southern states, 730 00:45:05,917 --> 00:45:09,636 And mississippi was a good state to take on, because it's a small state, 731 00:45:09,671 --> 00:45:11,505 Not much money, 732 00:45:11,539 --> 00:45:15,875 And u.S. Chamber put in candidates that were friendly towards them, 733 00:45:15,893 --> 00:45:20,562 And they were able to elect all of them except for one, 734 00:45:20,596 --> 00:45:22,849 And that was oliver diaz's election. 735 00:45:24,650 --> 00:45:27,017 The appeal was a book I published, 736 00:45:27,051 --> 00:45:31,221 It's a novel, it's completely fictional, and it's completely true. 737 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:36,777 Uh, it's the story of the, uh, purchasing of a supreme court seat in mississippi. 738 00:45:36,828 --> 00:45:40,497 I felt like I kind of lived through it with oliver, 739 00:45:40,531 --> 00:45:43,566 You know, knowing, because he was my friend, knowing what he had gone through. 740 00:45:51,674 --> 00:45:54,960 I was born and raised in biloxi, mississippi. 741 00:45:55,011 --> 00:45:58,896 Lived there all of my life, and then went to law school, 742 00:45:58,930 --> 00:46:02,916 And after law school, came back home and started practicing law there, 743 00:46:02,934 --> 00:46:08,087 And in 1987 was elected to the mississippi house of representatives 744 00:46:08,105 --> 00:46:10,523 And, and started a career in politics at that point. 745 00:46:10,557 --> 00:46:12,358 I was his campaign manager. 746 00:46:22,251 --> 00:46:26,287 You had these interest groups that were interested in electing judges 747 00:46:26,322 --> 00:46:28,823 That they deemed to be pro-business. 748 00:46:28,874 --> 00:46:32,376 I was not deemed to be pro-business, 749 00:46:32,410 --> 00:46:36,078 And the u.S. Chamber mounted a very, very large and expensive campaign 750 00:46:36,112 --> 00:46:38,247 Against me in 2000. 751 00:46:38,282 --> 00:46:41,300 Diaz even voted to overturn a cocaine conviction 752 00:46:41,335 --> 00:46:44,419 Because evidence of a prior cocaine sale was allowed. 753 00:46:44,453 --> 00:46:47,874 Oliver diaz. Very bad judgment. 754 00:46:47,908 --> 00:46:51,076 The negative ads are still running, and that, that part has not changed, 755 00:46:51,110 --> 00:46:53,595 The, the ads are still on the television. 756 00:46:53,629 --> 00:46:54,979 It's, it's a terrible situation. 757 00:46:55,063 --> 00:46:56,847 It is demeaning to the office. 758 00:46:56,898 --> 00:47:01,735 It is improper, it should not have happened. I've, I've told judge diaz that I've, uh, 759 00:47:01,770 --> 00:47:03,436 Done all I can do to get those stopped. 760 00:47:03,470 --> 00:47:05,471 I don't like it. 761 00:47:05,489 --> 00:47:07,490 My opponent, who was supported by the u.S. Chamber of commerce, 762 00:47:07,525 --> 00:47:11,611 He had probably a million dollars spent on his behalf, 763 00:47:11,645 --> 00:47:12,945 Which was not even... Oh, it was more. 764 00:47:12,979 --> 00:47:14,312 Yeah, it was more than a million dollars, 765 00:47:14,330 --> 00:47:17,165 Spent on his behalf, but it wasn't in his name, 766 00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,418 And he didn't report that on his campaign finance reports. 767 00:47:20,452 --> 00:47:23,487 You know, people think, "oh, the u.S. Chamber of commerce," 768 00:47:23,505 --> 00:47:28,292 They think of it representing small chambers on a national scale. 769 00:47:28,326 --> 00:47:31,512 That really isn't what the u.S. Chamber of commerce is. 770 00:47:31,547 --> 00:47:33,096 So what's the u.S. Chamber of commerce? 771 00:47:33,130 --> 00:47:35,498 um, I'm not really sure. 772 00:47:35,516 --> 00:47:37,499 Something dealing with the government. 773 00:47:37,517 --> 00:47:43,856 It was my understanding that it was a government agency, but I'm not sure of that. 774 00:47:43,890 --> 00:47:49,227 Probably they are getting engaged in, hmm, managing of... 775 00:47:50,112 --> 00:47:51,846 something. 776 00:47:51,864 --> 00:47:55,532 Trade? Do they engage in managing trade throughout the United States? 777 00:47:55,567 --> 00:47:56,767 I'd go with that. 778 00:48:18,537 --> 00:48:23,307 The u.S. Chamber of commerce became a very, very important player 779 00:48:23,341 --> 00:48:25,225 In the tort reform movement, 780 00:48:25,260 --> 00:48:30,147 And they have now been shown to be funneling money into judicial campaigns. 781 00:48:30,181 --> 00:48:32,932 Here's, here's the way that campaigns happen, okay? 782 00:48:32,967 --> 00:48:38,219 You have your doctors, hospitals, manufactures, insurance companies, 783 00:48:38,237 --> 00:48:41,156 You got all those folks kind of quarterbacked by the chamber of commerce. 784 00:48:41,190 --> 00:48:42,557 That's where the money is. 785 00:48:42,575 --> 00:48:45,344 There's nobody on the other side except for trial lawyers, 786 00:48:45,378 --> 00:48:49,897 Because the trial lawyers know the law, and they know what's going to happen 787 00:48:49,915 --> 00:48:51,782 If these judges are elected. 788 00:48:51,833 --> 00:48:55,036 We were playing by a certain set of rules, there were campaign finance laws 789 00:48:55,070 --> 00:48:58,839 That you had to know where the money was coming from, 790 00:48:58,873 --> 00:49:02,575 And there were limits on some of the amounts of money by who gave it. 791 00:49:02,593 --> 00:49:05,628 The trial lawyers are limited as to how much money they can put in. 792 00:49:05,679 --> 00:49:10,966 If you give more than $5000, a judge can't sit on your case. 793 00:49:11,017 --> 00:49:13,351 Whereas if the money comes from the chamber, 794 00:49:13,385 --> 00:49:15,520 All that money was packaged into a large group, 795 00:49:15,554 --> 00:49:19,941 And there's no way that you can see who it were that contributes. 796 00:49:19,975 --> 00:49:22,060 The chamber puts in millions of dollars into state races, 797 00:49:22,094 --> 00:49:23,777 Through some kind of a front group. 798 00:49:23,811 --> 00:49:27,931 You know, citizens for a strong ohio, or partnership for ohio, 799 00:49:27,949 --> 00:49:32,318 Groups that sound like they're citizens groups, but in fact are really business groups, 800 00:49:32,369 --> 00:49:33,953 Hiding behind a false veneer. 801 00:49:33,987 --> 00:49:36,372 We're doing much, much better in courts, 802 00:49:36,406 --> 00:49:41,127 And in the election of, of judges to the state supreme courts, 803 00:49:41,161 --> 00:49:44,279 And we're in those races. We'll spend $19 million 804 00:49:46,215 --> 00:49:49,299 In election of those judges and state attorneys general in this next election. 805 00:49:55,889 --> 00:50:00,459 They spent so much money against us, they would run almost every 15 to 20 minutes 806 00:50:00,477 --> 00:50:02,845 On tv, on our local station. 807 00:50:02,896 --> 00:50:06,398 So we got to where we just didn't have the tvs on, and all of a sudden one morning... 808 00:50:06,432 --> 00:50:07,632 We didn't want the kids to see 809 00:50:07,650 --> 00:50:09,434 These horrible ads. We didn't want them to see 'em, 810 00:50:09,468 --> 00:50:12,571 'cause some of the ads actually had big money bags being thrown up on a bench, 811 00:50:12,605 --> 00:50:15,357 That he was bought and paid for. 812 00:50:15,408 --> 00:50:18,492 Diaz's campaign took over $100,000 813 00:50:18,527 --> 00:50:20,161 From personal injury lawyers... 814 00:50:20,195 --> 00:50:23,163 And so one morning we hear, you know, just "whoo-hoo!" 815 00:50:23,197 --> 00:50:26,700 And our daughter is just, like, cheering downstairs, and we come down, and um, 816 00:50:26,751 --> 00:50:29,285 she's like, "we're rich, we're rich!" 817 00:50:29,319 --> 00:50:33,206 And she'd seen the ad with the big bags of money, you know, on the bench, 818 00:50:33,257 --> 00:50:34,790 And her daddy's name. 819 00:50:34,824 --> 00:50:37,676 The game plan was to pick out a justice, 820 00:50:37,711 --> 00:50:40,662 Try to make that justice look soft on crime, 821 00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:45,133 Take snippets from decisions that the justice had made, 822 00:50:45,167 --> 00:50:50,804 Manipulate those decisions to make them seem absolutely outrageous and ridiculous, 823 00:50:50,838 --> 00:50:55,559 And, uh, spend a lot of money to get that message out to the voters. 824 00:50:55,610 --> 00:51:00,013 The amount of money that's spent on television in a political campaign 825 00:51:00,031 --> 00:51:02,031 Has an enormous effect on the outcome. 826 00:51:02,065 --> 00:51:03,532 And in fact, in 2000, 827 00:51:03,567 --> 00:51:07,570 The statistics showed that the side that spent the most money 828 00:51:07,621 --> 00:51:10,406 Won about 90% of the time. 829 00:51:17,245 --> 00:51:19,913 We had two weeks until, um, we had to run again for a run-off, 830 00:51:19,965 --> 00:51:24,050 And we find out that the u.S. Chamber 831 00:51:24,084 --> 00:51:27,887 Had literally almost purchased all of the available airtime, 832 00:51:27,921 --> 00:51:31,057 That there was available from jackson to biloxi, mississippi. 833 00:51:31,091 --> 00:51:35,177 And what we had to do at the time was actually take out loans to finance the campaign, 834 00:51:35,211 --> 00:51:38,979 And, um, if you're familiar with banking at all, um, 835 00:51:39,014 --> 00:51:44,402 They generally don't like to loan money to folks who may lose an election, 836 00:51:44,437 --> 00:51:48,355 So you have to have somebody with money that co-signs on your behalf, 837 00:51:48,389 --> 00:51:53,559 And my very good friend paul minor was willing to step up and sign a loan at the bank 838 00:51:53,577 --> 00:51:57,864 To allow us to compete with the u.S. Chamber's ads that were running at the time. 839 00:51:57,897 --> 00:52:00,399 Keith starrett's special interest group from washington, dc 840 00:52:00,417 --> 00:52:03,068 Recently started attacking me, and distorting my record, 841 00:52:03,086 --> 00:52:06,705 I refuse to be negative, but I must defend my record. 842 00:52:06,739 --> 00:52:12,176 I still don't know how we did it to this very day, but we actually won that election. 843 00:52:12,211 --> 00:52:16,464 I really honestly thought when we won and celebrated that election 844 00:52:16,548 --> 00:52:17,632 We had thought that was a good day. 845 00:52:17,666 --> 00:52:20,183 It turned out to be, probably 846 00:52:20,218 --> 00:52:22,953 one of the worst days of our life, the election was. 847 00:52:25,739 --> 00:52:28,941 Federal prosecutors decided to investigate me 848 00:52:28,975 --> 00:52:33,762 And used, uh, the loans that paul minor had co-signed at the bank, 849 00:52:33,780 --> 00:52:38,316 And called that a bribe, and said that he'd bribed me as a judge. 850 00:52:38,350 --> 00:52:41,035 But what's really interesting about that is, 851 00:52:41,070 --> 00:52:46,323 I never voted for a single case in which paul minor, or his law firm, 852 00:52:46,374 --> 00:52:48,342 Or anybody he was associated with, 853 00:52:48,376 --> 00:52:52,111 Had brought before the supreme court because of our friendship. 854 00:52:52,129 --> 00:52:55,798 And then that summer oliver was indicted, 855 00:52:55,833 --> 00:52:59,118 And it just kind of started spiraling downhill from there. 856 00:52:59,136 --> 00:53:03,454 Um, I almost kind of didn't believe oliver. 857 00:53:03,472 --> 00:53:06,508 I said there has to be something here, you're not telling me the truth. 858 00:53:06,559 --> 00:53:09,944 They wouldn't bring these charges against us and do this. 859 00:53:09,978 --> 00:53:11,680 All these counts, 860 00:53:11,731 --> 00:53:14,231 You're facing a hundred and some years in the federal penitentiary, 861 00:53:14,266 --> 00:53:15,482 We have two... 862 00:53:15,517 --> 00:53:17,017 millions of dollars in fines. 863 00:53:17,052 --> 00:53:18,235 Millions of dollars in fines, 864 00:53:18,270 --> 00:53:20,187 We have two small children... 865 00:53:20,238 --> 00:53:22,939 Oliver diaz says the charges against him are groundless, 866 00:53:22,973 --> 00:53:26,241 Because he withdrew from all cases involving paul minor. 867 00:53:26,276 --> 00:53:29,962 Diaz is on leave from the supreme court until the case is resolved. 868 00:53:29,996 --> 00:53:32,998 The decision to prosecute justice diaz 869 00:53:33,032 --> 00:53:36,617 May have been motivated by tort reform politics. 870 00:53:36,651 --> 00:53:40,671 It may have been motivated by an effort to 871 00:53:40,706 --> 00:53:43,006 Remove justice diaz from the supreme court 872 00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:47,878 Where he often voted for ordinary citizens and against corporations, 873 00:53:47,929 --> 00:53:53,099 But it certainly was not a prosecution that was based on the evidence, 874 00:53:53,134 --> 00:53:56,219 Because the evidence did not support it. 875 00:53:56,269 --> 00:54:00,472 Do you think that oliver was prosecuted for political reasons? 876 00:54:00,506 --> 00:54:03,776 sure. I don't think there's any doubt about that. 877 00:54:03,810 --> 00:54:05,026 We thought we were just targeted, 878 00:54:05,060 --> 00:54:06,110 And this was just us, 879 00:54:06,145 --> 00:54:08,729 And this political prosecution was just us. 880 00:54:08,780 --> 00:54:11,782 We later found out that this happened all over the country, 881 00:54:11,816 --> 00:54:18,855 And those other judges were, that won or were successful, were also targeted. 882 00:54:18,873 --> 00:54:22,992 After a three month trial, I was completely acquitted of all charges. 883 00:54:23,026 --> 00:54:26,878 The jury returned not guilty verdicts on everything, 884 00:54:26,913 --> 00:54:30,333 But, uh, three days after my trial, 885 00:54:30,366 --> 00:54:34,002 I was re-indicted on tax evasion charges. 886 00:54:34,036 --> 00:54:36,671 So I had to go through another federal trial 887 00:54:36,705 --> 00:54:38,639 After that first three-month trial, 888 00:54:38,674 --> 00:54:42,009 And had a week-long trial this time on tax charges, 889 00:54:42,043 --> 00:54:45,762 And after a 15-minute deliberation time by the jury, 890 00:54:45,813 --> 00:54:48,765 I was fully acquitted a second time. 891 00:54:48,799 --> 00:54:50,984 I was finally cleared to return to the bench, 892 00:54:51,018 --> 00:54:57,105 But not till after I had been removed from the bench for almost three years. 893 00:54:57,156 --> 00:55:00,275 So what they weren't able to do through an election, 894 00:55:00,326 --> 00:55:04,662 They were able to do with a federal prosecution, a federal investigation, 895 00:55:04,696 --> 00:55:06,331 Uh, to keep me off the bench, 896 00:55:06,365 --> 00:55:09,282 Uh, to ruin my reputation, 897 00:55:09,333 --> 00:55:13,420 To make it that, uh, I probably wouldn't be able to 898 00:55:13,454 --> 00:55:16,423 Be elected again to the mississippi supreme court. 899 00:55:16,457 --> 00:55:20,510 Some other people were elected who were considered to be much more business-friendly, 900 00:55:20,543 --> 00:55:24,263 Uh, justices then had served on the court in the years past, 901 00:55:24,297 --> 00:55:26,548 And it really, really did alter things. 902 00:55:26,582 --> 00:55:29,051 In mississippi after the, the courts swung, 903 00:55:29,084 --> 00:55:33,338 I think they went, like, two years without upholding a plaintiff verdict. 904 00:55:33,372 --> 00:55:35,606 You know, you might be able to win with the jury, 905 00:55:35,641 --> 00:55:39,977 But you have no hope of having that, that verdict sustained by the courts. 906 00:55:52,189 --> 00:55:55,574 I think the, sort of, the taint of these charges, 907 00:55:55,607 --> 00:55:57,792 And sort of the residue of all of that, 908 00:55:57,827 --> 00:56:00,712 And the fact that some people in the public simply assumed 909 00:56:00,746 --> 00:56:02,831 He was guilty because he was charged of it, 910 00:56:02,915 --> 00:56:04,799 Caused him to be defeated for re-election. 911 00:56:04,834 --> 00:56:10,170 Also, um, I was not able to, to raise the funds to, to compete. 912 00:56:10,221 --> 00:56:14,290 I raised about a quarter of the amount that I'd raised in my first election. 913 00:56:14,308 --> 00:56:16,759 If two or three million dollars is being spent, 914 00:56:16,793 --> 00:56:18,978 Or ten million dollars is being spent, 915 00:56:19,013 --> 00:56:21,313 The way it's going now, ten years from now 916 00:56:21,347 --> 00:56:24,466 They'll be spending a hundred million dollars on judicial elections. 917 00:56:24,484 --> 00:56:31,305 And it's not really a good way to have the system work. 918 00:56:31,323 --> 00:56:34,825 And there's many people in the business community who don't agree with me on that. 919 00:57:00,382 --> 00:57:02,832 Can you tell us why you're here today at this reform summit? 920 00:57:02,850 --> 00:57:07,687 We're here to receive the leadership achievement award. 921 00:57:07,722 --> 00:57:09,672 Oh, for what? 922 00:57:09,690 --> 00:57:13,592 For passing a 208-page civil justice reform law in oklahoma, 923 00:57:13,627 --> 00:57:17,396 That is going to take the bull's-eye off the back of business in our state. 924 00:57:17,447 --> 00:57:19,365 What does that mean exactly? 925 00:57:19,399 --> 00:57:21,350 It means that we're protecting our businesses from frivolous lawsuits. 926 00:57:21,368 --> 00:57:23,652 And do you think there are a lot of frivolous lawsuits? 927 00:57:23,685 --> 00:57:27,688 There are, and we think that there's a definite cost to the medical profession 928 00:57:27,740 --> 00:57:29,456 And the cost of doing business 929 00:57:29,491 --> 00:57:30,858 Where we have to protect that, 930 00:57:30,876 --> 00:57:33,693 Companies that are now doing business in our country 931 00:57:33,711 --> 00:57:36,028 From that kind of invasiveness. 932 00:57:36,046 --> 00:57:37,748 And so who brings these frivolous lawsuits? 933 00:57:37,799 --> 00:57:41,250 All kinds of people. People that are jackpot-justice oriented. 934 00:57:41,301 --> 00:57:43,869 Do you think tort reform is a good thing for the american public? 935 00:57:43,887 --> 00:57:45,988 Without a doubt. Why, why is that? 936 00:57:46,023 --> 00:57:50,208 There's an incredible amount of frivolous lawsuits. 937 00:57:50,226 --> 00:57:57,314 It directly impacts everything from health care to, um, 938 00:57:57,349 --> 00:58:01,769 You know, prices in stores, and small businesses. 939 00:58:01,803 --> 00:58:03,070 It's extremely important. 940 00:58:03,105 --> 00:58:05,405 And where do you work, or what do you do? 941 00:58:05,439 --> 00:58:08,825 Uh, I am a, I'm a lawyer. Okay, and with a law firm or... 942 00:58:08,859 --> 00:58:10,109 No, in-house counsel. 943 00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:11,444 Oh, for what kind of company you work? 944 00:58:11,495 --> 00:58:13,328 Uh, pfizer pharmaceuticals. 945 00:58:13,364 --> 00:58:16,498 I think we've just gone too far. Too much litigation. 946 00:58:16,533 --> 00:58:19,584 And so who, who benefits from having less litigation? 947 00:58:19,618 --> 00:58:22,204 Everybody, except the trial lawyers. 948 00:58:22,238 --> 00:58:23,838 And how do you... Do you want to, like, 949 00:58:23,872 --> 00:58:26,407 Eliminate people's rights to go to the court system? 950 00:58:26,425 --> 00:58:27,909 I want to give people... 951 00:58:27,943 --> 00:58:31,011 My own preference would be to give people rights to sign contracts 952 00:58:31,045 --> 00:58:32,879 When they buy products and so forth, 953 00:58:32,913 --> 00:58:35,715 So the contracts would determine what rights they had. 954 00:58:35,750 --> 00:58:38,935 Are these things like the arbitration clauses that are in contracts, 955 00:58:38,970 --> 00:58:40,253 Like the mandatory arbitration clauses? 956 00:58:40,271 --> 00:58:43,140 Yeah, those are useful clauses, I believe. 957 00:58:43,191 --> 00:58:46,758 Sometimes, um, litigation is harmful to all of us. 958 00:58:46,776 --> 00:58:50,696 And there are better means to resolve disputes than through the courts. 959 00:58:50,730 --> 00:58:52,480 You mentioned a few of them already. 960 00:58:52,531 --> 00:58:55,566 Arbitration is a very good one, and there are lots of others. 961 00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:57,268 Uh, but I hope you'll excuse me, I do have to run now. 962 00:58:57,286 --> 00:58:59,870 No problem, thank you so much, I appreciate it. 963 00:59:14,051 --> 00:59:15,251 Did she get any on her head? 964 00:59:15,285 --> 00:59:17,552 Yes. 965 00:59:17,587 --> 00:59:20,088 That doesn't go on your head, baby girl! 966 00:59:21,057 --> 00:59:22,339 Silly. 967 00:59:22,390 --> 00:59:26,260 You thirsty? You want a drink, hon? 968 00:59:26,294 --> 00:59:27,561 Oh, yeah, why not. 969 00:59:27,596 --> 00:59:29,463 Chocolate milk, coke, orange juice, milk? 970 00:59:31,765 --> 00:59:34,201 Hmm, I'll have coke. 971 00:59:34,236 --> 00:59:36,686 A coke for breakfast, huh? Uh-huh. 972 00:59:36,737 --> 00:59:37,904 All right. 973 00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:43,325 Here you go, I'm gonna make me an orange juice. 974 00:59:43,359 --> 00:59:46,278 I had never heard of a mandatory arbitration clause 975 00:59:46,312 --> 00:59:51,166 Before I had signed my employment contract with halliburton. 976 00:59:51,201 --> 00:59:53,834 I worked for halliburton in houston, 977 00:59:53,869 --> 00:59:58,488 And, um, I wanted to help operation iraqi freedom. 978 00:59:58,506 --> 01:00:02,209 My mom was very sick at home, so I needed to help support her. 979 01:00:02,260 --> 01:00:05,161 They say it's more likely that you'd get in a car wreck 980 01:00:05,179 --> 01:00:08,130 Than something happening to you in iraq. 981 01:00:08,165 --> 01:00:12,668 So as a 19-year-old girl, you believe your elders, 982 01:00:12,719 --> 01:00:17,004 And you think that that's probably true, so... 983 01:00:17,022 --> 01:00:19,374 Four years ago at the age of 19, 984 01:00:19,408 --> 01:00:23,027 Ms. Jamie leigh jones signed a contract to 985 01:00:23,062 --> 01:00:27,981 Become an employee of kbr, then a halliburton subsidiary. 986 01:00:28,015 --> 01:00:29,816 That contract contained a clause 987 01:00:29,850 --> 01:00:36,239 Which required her to arbitrate any future dispute against her employer. 988 01:00:36,290 --> 01:00:40,742 This means it would force her to give up her right to seek redress 989 01:00:40,793 --> 01:00:43,212 In court if she was wronged. 990 01:00:43,247 --> 01:00:46,881 Mandatory arbitration is, uh, 991 01:00:46,916 --> 01:00:50,051 Something that has to be involved in the case, isn't it, or something? 992 01:00:50,086 --> 01:00:53,404 Because arbitration is how the case... Oh... 993 01:00:53,438 --> 01:00:55,055 It has something to do with case files. 994 01:00:55,090 --> 01:00:56,757 Have you heard? No. 995 01:00:56,807 --> 01:00:58,725 I've heard the two words used separately. 996 01:00:58,759 --> 01:01:00,810 Right. 997 01:01:00,844 --> 01:01:03,179 Businesses use a number of devices to keep the public out of the courts. 998 01:01:03,213 --> 01:01:05,281 One of the devices they've used is 999 01:01:05,315 --> 01:01:09,936 They've written clauses into contracts that say that you cannot go to court. 1000 01:01:09,987 --> 01:01:11,670 You can only go to arbitration. 1001 01:01:11,738 --> 01:01:14,740 What we started to see was, again and again, 1002 01:01:14,773 --> 01:01:19,910 Our clients had been forced to sign in the fine print of contracts 1003 01:01:19,945 --> 01:01:23,396 These mandatory arbitration, or forced arbitration clauses, 1004 01:01:23,414 --> 01:01:26,283 And none of our clients knew that those provisions were there 1005 01:01:26,334 --> 01:01:29,085 And then it was only after we got hold of their documents 1006 01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:30,236 That we would say to them, 1007 01:01:30,254 --> 01:01:33,088 "hey, did you know you supposedly agreed 1008 01:01:33,123 --> 01:01:35,342 "that you are not allowed to sue the company? 1009 01:01:35,376 --> 01:01:38,076 "do you know that you agreed that instead of going to a jury, 1010 01:01:38,094 --> 01:01:40,729 "that you have to go to a private arbitrator, 1011 01:01:40,764 --> 01:01:44,265 "who's with the company, that's picked by the company who cheated you?" 1012 01:01:44,300 --> 01:01:47,302 And when you ask people about binding arbitration 1013 01:01:47,353 --> 01:01:50,688 And "would you knowingly sign away your rights?" 1014 01:01:50,723 --> 01:01:52,806 They say, "well, of course not." 1015 01:01:52,857 --> 01:01:55,142 And then you ask them, "well, do you have a cell phone? Do you have a gym membership? 1016 01:01:55,193 --> 01:01:57,476 "do ya, you know, do you have a credit card?" 1017 01:01:57,527 --> 01:01:59,645 Do you know whether you've ever agreed to 1018 01:01:59,696 --> 01:02:02,949 Mandatory arbitration in any of your contracts? 1019 01:02:02,984 --> 01:02:05,701 Um, I don't believe I ever have. No. 1020 01:02:05,736 --> 01:02:07,453 Do you own, do you have a credit card? 1021 01:02:07,487 --> 01:02:09,120 Well, maybe I have. 1022 01:02:09,155 --> 01:02:11,723 When you first sign a contract with a cell phone company 1023 01:02:11,757 --> 01:02:13,908 Or a credit card company, or what not, 1024 01:02:13,942 --> 01:02:17,245 There won't be any reference or any mention of the arbitration clause, 1025 01:02:17,278 --> 01:02:19,330 But then at some point, the company decides to add it. 1026 01:02:19,381 --> 01:02:23,334 So what they do is, they send out, in incredibly tiny print, 1027 01:02:23,385 --> 01:02:26,453 A little booklet that they stick in with the bill. 1028 01:02:26,471 --> 01:02:30,122 And what almost everybody does, is you look at the bill, 1029 01:02:30,140 --> 01:02:31,808 And you throw everything else away. 1030 01:02:31,842 --> 01:02:34,243 But that's where they send in the arbitration clause 1031 01:02:34,278 --> 01:02:37,179 And then what they say is, if you ever use your phone again, 1032 01:02:37,213 --> 01:02:39,548 Or you ever use your credit card again, 1033 01:02:39,582 --> 01:02:43,518 That you've supposedly "agreed" to mandatory arbitration. 1034 01:02:43,553 --> 01:02:45,820 What's happened in america, 1035 01:02:45,854 --> 01:02:49,306 Is that entire industries have all adopted mandatory arbitration clauses. 1036 01:02:49,324 --> 01:02:51,225 You'll see them in credit card agreements, 1037 01:02:51,259 --> 01:02:53,626 Checking account agreements, lending agreements, 1038 01:02:53,661 --> 01:02:55,144 Cell phone contracts, 1039 01:02:55,162 --> 01:02:57,030 Virtually anything that's bought over the internet. 1040 01:02:57,063 --> 01:02:59,299 Computers, books, records. 1041 01:02:59,333 --> 01:03:00,533 Virtually all nursing homes. 1042 01:03:00,568 --> 01:03:02,901 Nearly every contract to buy a new car, 1043 01:03:02,936 --> 01:03:05,003 Health clubs, tanning salons. 1044 01:03:05,038 --> 01:03:08,957 I have a friend who took her cat in to be boarded while she went on vacation 1045 01:03:08,991 --> 01:03:11,793 And the kennel made her sign a mandatory arbitration clause 1046 01:03:11,827 --> 01:03:14,379 That if they killed her cat or did something horrible to it, 1047 01:03:14,430 --> 01:03:15,963 That she couldn't go to court. 1048 01:03:15,997 --> 01:03:17,732 You have no bargaining power, 1049 01:03:17,766 --> 01:03:21,334 You as a consumer or a worker are forced into these things 1050 01:03:21,369 --> 01:03:24,104 And you really never had a choice in the matter. 1051 01:03:24,138 --> 01:03:27,190 Mandatory arbitration is fast becoming the rule, 1052 01:03:27,225 --> 01:03:29,142 Rather than the exception. 1053 01:03:29,176 --> 01:03:33,362 The practice of forcing employees to use arbitration has been on the rise. 1054 01:03:33,397 --> 01:03:35,146 There are several surveys that show 1055 01:03:35,180 --> 01:03:37,399 That more than a third of the working people in america 1056 01:03:37,450 --> 01:03:41,269 Are bound to forced arbitration clauses. 1057 01:03:41,303 --> 01:03:43,537 In fact far more american workers 1058 01:03:43,571 --> 01:03:47,324 Are governed by mandatory forced arbitration clauses 1059 01:03:47,358 --> 01:03:50,828 Than are members of unions in modern america today. 1060 01:03:53,548 --> 01:03:56,883 I worked for halliburton in houston for a little bit over a year 1061 01:03:56,967 --> 01:03:59,701 Before I decided to go to iraq. 1062 01:03:59,719 --> 01:04:01,003 When I was in iraq, 1063 01:04:01,037 --> 01:04:04,873 Halliburton and kbr were the same company. 1064 01:04:04,891 --> 01:04:09,310 Those that go over to iraq get promoted when they come home. 1065 01:04:09,377 --> 01:04:13,597 Also, I mean my goal was to just work there forever. 1066 01:04:13,649 --> 01:04:17,184 I was content there, until everything happened. 1067 01:04:18,853 --> 01:04:23,273 I was told that I would be housed in a little trailer house 1068 01:04:23,324 --> 01:04:26,409 With one female on one side, another on one side 1069 01:04:26,444 --> 01:04:28,828 And then a bathroom shared in the middle. 1070 01:04:28,863 --> 01:04:31,731 And when I got there, I was perplexed 1071 01:04:31,748 --> 01:04:35,250 Because I was put in a predominately all-male barrack. 1072 01:04:35,285 --> 01:04:37,568 I didn't see any females there. 1073 01:04:37,586 --> 01:04:41,237 I emailed some of the managers that I knew from houston, 1074 01:04:41,255 --> 01:04:44,008 And I told them I was concerned, that I wanted... 1075 01:04:44,042 --> 01:04:47,745 You know, to be moved into the living quarters that I was promised, 1076 01:04:47,763 --> 01:04:52,182 And one guy emailed me back and just said, "oh, you'll get over it." 1077 01:04:52,216 --> 01:04:56,353 Men had their doors open, and some were in boxers, 1078 01:04:56,386 --> 01:04:58,120 And they were cat calling. 1079 01:05:04,393 --> 01:05:07,778 When I woke up, I was severely beaten, 1080 01:05:07,812 --> 01:05:09,397 My chest was disfigured, 1081 01:05:09,431 --> 01:05:12,116 I was bleeding between my legs, I was naked. 1082 01:05:12,151 --> 01:05:15,452 I washed my hands and then I saw the bruises on my wrists, 1083 01:05:15,487 --> 01:05:19,155 And I'm starting to put together that something major happened to my body. 1084 01:05:19,239 --> 01:05:22,441 And then I go back up the stairs, down the hall, 1085 01:05:22,459 --> 01:05:26,128 And I looked in my room and there was a man in the bottom bunk, 1086 01:05:26,163 --> 01:05:29,465 And I don't remember if he was clothed or anything, 1087 01:05:29,500 --> 01:05:35,737 I was so, like, shocked, that part...Bits and pieces of it are gone from me. 1088 01:05:35,771 --> 01:05:39,758 It was just, it was the worst moment in my entire life. 1089 01:05:39,792 --> 01:05:46,146 To actually see a man brazen enough to still be there in the room after raping me. 1090 01:05:47,097 --> 01:05:48,932 And it was really hard, 1091 01:05:48,966 --> 01:05:51,768 And I know now that the reason why he was still in the room, 1092 01:05:51,802 --> 01:05:56,773 Was because he would be able to get away with it. 1093 01:05:56,807 --> 01:05:59,074 I went to seek medical help 1094 01:05:59,108 --> 01:06:04,312 And at the army doctor, she said that I had been, um, 1095 01:06:05,614 --> 01:06:08,315 Penetrated both vaginally and anally. 1096 01:06:08,333 --> 01:06:13,070 And that the tears down there were significant. 1097 01:06:23,713 --> 01:06:26,048 You've heard a lot about halliburton lately. 1098 01:06:26,099 --> 01:06:28,767 Criticism is okay, we can take it. 1099 01:06:28,802 --> 01:06:30,886 Criticism is not failure. 1100 01:06:30,937 --> 01:06:33,221 Our employees are doing a great job. 1101 01:06:33,272 --> 01:06:36,608 We're feeding the soldiers, we're rebuilding iraq. 1102 01:06:36,642 --> 01:06:37,774 Will things go wrong? 1103 01:06:37,809 --> 01:06:39,943 Sure they will, it's a war zone. 1104 01:06:39,978 --> 01:06:43,897 But when they do, we'll fix it. We always have. 1105 01:06:43,948 --> 01:06:48,401 So then two kbr security officers took me to a... 1106 01:06:48,452 --> 01:06:52,121 It's been called a lot of things, shipping container, trailer, 1107 01:06:52,155 --> 01:06:54,624 Essentially I was imprisoned. 1108 01:06:54,658 --> 01:06:57,826 There was two armed guards outside of my door, 1109 01:06:57,860 --> 01:07:02,998 Um, I was begging and pleading through the door to, you know, let me get out of there. 1110 01:07:03,032 --> 01:07:06,467 And finally, one of the guards, out of sympathy, let me use his phone. 1111 01:07:06,501 --> 01:07:09,837 I called my father, who contacted congressman ted poe. 1112 01:07:09,871 --> 01:07:11,871 Well, it was almost unbelievable. 1113 01:07:11,889 --> 01:07:17,427 Here she is, a young, uh, 19-year-old, uh, female, 1114 01:07:17,478 --> 01:07:21,230 And according to her dad, uh, she had, uh... 1115 01:07:21,265 --> 01:07:24,100 She was locked up in one of these shipping crates, 1116 01:07:24,150 --> 01:07:29,153 So the first thing that I thought should happen is get her out of that situation. 1117 01:07:29,187 --> 01:07:32,491 You know, uh, send the troops over to rescue her, so to speak. 1118 01:07:32,525 --> 01:07:35,826 And uh, the state department, I thought did a pretty good job. 1119 01:07:35,861 --> 01:07:39,329 After I was rescued by federal agents, 1120 01:07:39,363 --> 01:07:42,766 They formed a meeting with kbr management, 1121 01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:46,235 And management told me that I had two options. 1122 01:07:46,253 --> 01:07:47,953 One, I could continue working there, 1123 01:07:48,004 --> 01:07:51,406 Or two, I could go home and be terminated. 1124 01:07:51,424 --> 01:07:55,243 I tried to pursue my criminal case and it didn't work, 1125 01:07:55,261 --> 01:07:59,847 And then I tried to file a civil suit and that didn't work out 1126 01:07:59,882 --> 01:08:04,335 Because of the arbitration clause in my employment contract. 1127 01:08:12,393 --> 01:08:16,113 No one would conceive that this would happen to them, first of all, 1128 01:08:16,147 --> 01:08:18,764 And secondly, no one would conceive that this would be, 1129 01:08:18,782 --> 01:08:23,952 Oh, well then, the company that sent you over there and put you in this position, 1130 01:08:23,986 --> 01:08:27,038 Uh, where you were raped, 1131 01:08:27,073 --> 01:08:30,375 Is also, "you're just going to have to arbitrate with us secretly." 1132 01:08:30,409 --> 01:08:33,994 I mean, I don't think anyone could possibly conceive that that would happen. 1133 01:08:34,046 --> 01:08:36,413 Well, whenever you take a case out of the court system, 1134 01:08:36,447 --> 01:08:40,216 You're immediately put into a biased type of forum. 1135 01:08:40,250 --> 01:08:43,052 Arbitration happens to be extremely biased. 1136 01:08:43,087 --> 01:08:45,671 Most arbitrations take place in secret. 1137 01:08:45,722 --> 01:08:47,173 You have a private judge, 1138 01:08:47,224 --> 01:08:49,225 So if you have a credit card agreement, 1139 01:08:49,259 --> 01:08:53,362 The credit card company picks who the arbitration company is going to be 1140 01:08:53,396 --> 01:08:57,348 And then the arbitration company picks an individual arbitrator to hear your case. 1141 01:08:57,433 --> 01:09:00,434 The arbitrator wants repeat business, 1142 01:09:00,468 --> 01:09:02,302 And they only deal with you once, 1143 01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:06,606 But they deal with a bank of america, or general motors, or whoever it is, 1144 01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:10,110 The businesses, they deal with them day in and day out. 1145 01:09:10,144 --> 01:09:14,196 And so they're going to tilt their decisions toward the businesses. 1146 01:09:14,247 --> 01:09:16,415 There have been a bunch of examples 1147 01:09:16,449 --> 01:09:19,484 Where if the arbitrator ruled in favor of a consumer, 1148 01:09:19,536 --> 01:09:22,287 Or ruled in favor of somebody who is an employee, 1149 01:09:22,321 --> 01:09:26,175 That they were blackballed, and they never got to work again as an arbitrator. 1150 01:09:26,209 --> 01:09:28,176 So they set up systems that are 1151 01:09:28,209 --> 01:09:31,261 Essentially rigged against the consumers. 1152 01:09:31,295 --> 01:09:35,432 Many studies show that consumers come out winning these cases 1153 01:09:35,466 --> 01:09:37,500 Maybe less than ten percent of the time. 1154 01:09:37,518 --> 01:09:41,354 They're almost always won by the bank or the credit card company. 1155 01:09:41,389 --> 01:09:44,224 It's impossible to find out what the reason is 1156 01:09:44,275 --> 01:09:46,625 For an arbitrator ruling for one side or another. 1157 01:09:46,660 --> 01:09:50,478 They just say this side wins, this side loses, and that's it. 1158 01:09:50,512 --> 01:09:54,282 And there's no right to appeal, so I have to take the final judgment of one guy 1159 01:09:54,316 --> 01:09:56,650 Who's been picked by my credit card company 1160 01:09:56,684 --> 01:10:00,354 To tell me that I'm going to end up having to pay. 1161 01:10:00,372 --> 01:10:02,206 I'm not okay with that. Yeah, I'm not okay with that either. 1162 01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:04,625 No. Uh-uh. That's actually upsetting. 1163 01:10:04,659 --> 01:10:07,293 Transparency is a must in the judicial process, 1164 01:10:07,327 --> 01:10:10,379 So if there's no oversight in that regard, 1165 01:10:10,414 --> 01:10:12,415 I'd be pretty, I'd be pretty worried. 1166 01:10:12,466 --> 01:10:16,051 Until and unless congress takes action with regard to 1167 01:10:16,086 --> 01:10:18,837 Restricting the use of these binding arbitration clauses, 1168 01:10:18,871 --> 01:10:21,255 We're all going to be stuck with these clauses. 1169 01:10:21,306 --> 01:10:25,811 Senator al franken proposing the pentagon shouldn't hire contractors 1170 01:10:25,845 --> 01:10:29,763 That make their employees agree in advance not to sue 1171 01:10:29,814 --> 01:10:31,981 If they're raped by co-workers. 1172 01:10:32,017 --> 01:10:36,736 I just started the jamie leigh foundation, and I've been trying to bring awareness 1173 01:10:36,821 --> 01:10:39,606 To the situation to help others through my foundation. 1174 01:10:39,657 --> 01:10:41,057 So behind the scenes up to this point, 1175 01:10:41,075 --> 01:10:43,492 You've been trying to pursue every legal avenue... 1176 01:10:43,526 --> 01:10:46,028 Oh yeah. 1177 01:10:46,062 --> 01:10:49,031 I went public because I wanted to bring awareness to the situation 1178 01:10:49,065 --> 01:10:53,000 That there was a loophole in our justice system 1179 01:10:53,035 --> 01:10:55,903 That needed to be fixed very quickly. 1180 01:10:55,921 --> 01:11:00,240 If I could just, you know, get this out there, what happened to me, 1181 01:11:00,258 --> 01:11:05,761 That maybe, you know, people would change the laws, somehow the laws would change. 1182 01:11:10,934 --> 01:11:12,885 Hi! Hi! 1183 01:11:12,919 --> 01:11:14,937 Hi. Thank you so much for all that you've done. 1184 01:11:14,971 --> 01:11:16,689 Thank you for your courage. 1185 01:11:16,723 --> 01:11:18,256 It's just amazing. Amazing! 1186 01:11:19,860 --> 01:11:22,260 Hi, yes. Very nice to meet you. 1187 01:11:22,278 --> 01:11:27,365 Nice to meet you. You have an incredibly courageous daughter. 1188 01:11:27,399 --> 01:11:28,565 Thank you. 1189 01:11:28,599 --> 01:11:30,534 And also with a tremendous amount of persistence. 1190 01:11:30,568 --> 01:11:31,869 yeah. 1191 01:11:31,903 --> 01:11:33,070 So, way to go. 1192 01:11:33,104 --> 01:11:34,287 Thank you. 1193 01:11:45,815 --> 01:11:47,883 And you're testifying tomorrow? 1194 01:11:47,917 --> 01:11:49,416 Yes, sir. Uh-huh. 1195 01:11:49,450 --> 01:11:53,287 I've testified in front of congress a few times. 1196 01:11:53,305 --> 01:11:55,622 Is it judiciary committee tomorrow? 1197 01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:56,956 Uh, judiciary, yes. 1198 01:11:56,974 --> 01:11:57,974 So that's me. 1199 01:11:58,058 --> 01:11:59,226 Yeah. 1200 01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:05,598 I turned to the civil court system for justice 1201 01:12:05,632 --> 01:12:08,801 When the criminal justice system was slow to respond. 1202 01:12:08,819 --> 01:12:13,405 When my lawyers filed the suit, um, they were met with halliburton's response 1203 01:12:13,439 --> 01:12:16,858 That all of my claims were to be decided in arbitration, 1204 01:12:16,909 --> 01:12:21,829 Because I had signed away my right to a trial by jury at such an early age. 1205 01:12:21,864 --> 01:12:25,699 I had no choice to sign this contract because I needed this job. 1206 01:12:25,751 --> 01:12:28,920 I had no idea that the clause was part of the contract, 1207 01:12:28,954 --> 01:12:30,320 What the clause actually meant, 1208 01:12:30,338 --> 01:12:33,623 Or that I would eventually end up in this horrible situation. 1209 01:12:33,657 --> 01:12:38,160 The problem of forcing claims like mine into a secret system of binding arbitration 1210 01:12:38,178 --> 01:12:40,679 Goes well beyond me. 1211 01:12:40,714 --> 01:12:43,182 Even when victims pursue their claims in arbitration, 1212 01:12:43,216 --> 01:12:46,334 The information is sealed and kept confidential. 1213 01:12:46,352 --> 01:12:50,971 The system of arbitration keeps this evidence from ever coming to public light, 1214 01:12:51,005 --> 01:12:52,940 And allows companies like halliburton 1215 01:12:52,974 --> 01:12:55,359 To continue to allow the abuse of their employees 1216 01:12:55,393 --> 01:12:58,178 Without repercussion or public scrutiny. 1217 01:12:58,196 --> 01:13:01,280 The seminal question is, should employers and employees be able to 1218 01:13:01,315 --> 01:13:05,618 Engage in mediation and mandatory binding arbitration of employment disputes 1219 01:13:05,652 --> 01:13:08,186 As alternatives to litigation? 1220 01:13:08,204 --> 01:13:11,690 The seminal answer is, absolutely. 1221 01:13:11,707 --> 01:13:13,825 Adr unemployment programs are flourishing, 1222 01:13:13,859 --> 01:13:18,329 When implemented appropriately they're decisively in employees' best interest. 1223 01:13:18,363 --> 01:13:21,715 It is a popular concept for those employers who've adopted it, 1224 01:13:21,750 --> 01:13:23,334 And adopted it appropriately. 1225 01:13:23,368 --> 01:13:25,502 It provides for more effective communication... 1226 01:13:25,536 --> 01:13:26,703 Sir, in your comments... 1227 01:13:26,721 --> 01:13:28,639 Sure. 1228 01:13:28,673 --> 01:13:32,926 Uh, would you also tell how arbitration could be helpful to somebody like miss jones 1229 01:13:32,977 --> 01:13:38,397 When the, when the, uh, her employer, halliburton in effect, said that 1230 01:13:38,431 --> 01:13:42,884 Rape and sexual assault has just to be considered part of the job? 1231 01:13:44,654 --> 01:13:48,222 What we have in this situation, I'm not here representing 1232 01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:51,225 Uh, anyone involved in that case, I'm not involved in that case, 1233 01:13:51,243 --> 01:13:52,742 Um, you know, 1234 01:13:52,777 --> 01:13:56,663 Miss jones has had her day in court, and maybe more than she'd want. 1235 01:13:56,697 --> 01:13:59,164 It goes on and on and on, I understand that. 1236 01:13:59,199 --> 01:14:02,735 Uh, what we're talking about is the concept of adr, 1237 01:14:02,753 --> 01:14:05,070 And dispute resolution programs overall. 1238 01:14:05,121 --> 01:14:07,406 Senator franken. 1239 01:14:07,424 --> 01:14:11,926 Thank you mr. Chairman. Thank you for calling, uh, this hearing, uh, 1240 01:14:11,961 --> 01:14:13,962 Mr. De bernardo. 1241 01:14:14,013 --> 01:14:19,416 You said that the net result of the use of, uh, arbitration 1242 01:14:19,434 --> 01:14:21,719 Is better workplaces. 1243 01:14:22,603 --> 01:14:24,587 Correct. 1244 01:14:24,605 --> 01:14:25,856 Better workplaces? 1245 01:14:26,941 --> 01:14:28,025 Correct. 1246 01:14:28,059 --> 01:14:30,059 She was housed with 400 men. 1247 01:14:32,446 --> 01:14:38,116 She told kbr twice that she was being sexually harassed. 1248 01:14:39,568 --> 01:14:40,869 She was drugged, 1249 01:14:42,654 --> 01:14:48,409 By men that the kbr employment people knew did this kind of thing. 1250 01:14:49,294 --> 01:14:51,462 She was raped. Gang raped. 1251 01:14:51,496 --> 01:14:53,881 She had to have reconstructive surgery, sir. 1252 01:14:57,418 --> 01:15:01,120 They had this, this arbitration. 1253 01:15:02,889 --> 01:15:06,808 Now, if that created a better workplace... 1254 01:15:06,843 --> 01:15:12,963 And then, she was locked in a shipping container with an armed guard. 1255 01:15:12,981 --> 01:15:16,600 Now, my question to you is, if that's a better workplace, 1256 01:15:18,603 --> 01:15:20,803 What was, what was the workplace like before? 1257 01:15:23,308 --> 01:15:26,191 That's a rhetorical question, I'm not really asking that question. 1258 01:15:27,611 --> 01:15:31,781 They had binding arbitration at kbr, 1259 01:15:31,815 --> 01:15:33,831 And because of that, 1260 01:15:33,867 --> 01:15:35,917 And they asserted it, 1261 01:15:35,951 --> 01:15:38,036 On cases like this, 1262 01:15:38,087 --> 01:15:43,290 And miss jones, in your foundation you've heard from other women who were raped, 1263 01:15:43,324 --> 01:15:44,374 Is that not true? 1264 01:15:44,425 --> 01:15:46,259 Yes, sir, I have. 1265 01:15:46,294 --> 01:15:50,797 And uh, and women who, under arbitration... 1266 01:15:51,798 --> 01:15:52,932 Yes, sir. 1267 01:15:52,966 --> 01:15:55,385 Were, were told to keep silent, is that right? 1268 01:15:55,436 --> 01:15:57,337 Exactly. 1269 01:15:57,355 --> 01:16:00,773 And because of that silence, you didn't know about anything like this, did you? 1270 01:16:00,807 --> 01:16:04,559 Exactly, I didn't know. It was not public knowledge. 1271 01:16:07,530 --> 01:16:11,232 And when mr. De bernardo said that you had your day in court, 1272 01:16:11,283 --> 01:16:12,616 What was your reaction? 1273 01:16:14,018 --> 01:16:15,452 I was livid, sir. 1274 01:16:18,405 --> 01:16:21,457 Four years to fight to get in court is not a day in court. 1275 01:16:23,794 --> 01:16:25,661 Um, I was livid too. 1276 01:16:30,049 --> 01:16:32,867 This is the result of your binding, 1277 01:16:35,138 --> 01:16:37,889 Mandatory arbitration. 1278 01:16:40,725 --> 01:16:41,927 Mr. De bernardo. 1279 01:16:43,877 --> 01:16:45,062 Thank you. 1280 01:16:46,548 --> 01:16:47,730 Mr. Chairman. 1281 01:16:55,739 --> 01:16:58,557 As I talk to people who have been harmed, 1282 01:16:58,608 --> 01:17:01,909 Look, most of them are not interested in a big payday. 1283 01:17:01,944 --> 01:17:04,728 Most of these people are interested in accountability, 1284 01:17:04,746 --> 01:17:06,498 And the, and the way our system is structured, 1285 01:17:06,533 --> 01:17:11,401 The only way we have, we have to hold somebody accountable is through the courthouse. 1286 01:17:11,419 --> 01:17:13,570 I can't tell you why people support tort reform. 1287 01:17:13,588 --> 01:17:16,540 I can tell you that if they have supported tort reform, 1288 01:17:16,574 --> 01:17:19,908 And that they subsequently get hurt, 1289 01:17:21,077 --> 01:17:23,295 They're really sorry that they did. 1290 01:17:24,764 --> 01:17:26,915 There's a story of a gentleman in waco. 1291 01:17:26,933 --> 01:17:32,253 He was harmed, and he sought to hold the doctor who harmed him accountable, 1292 01:17:32,271 --> 01:17:34,506 And he came to find out that he couldn't do that, 1293 01:17:34,540 --> 01:17:38,259 And he had voted for the state constitutional amendment that 1294 01:17:38,277 --> 01:17:41,778 Allowed the legislature to limit the rights of patients. 1295 01:17:41,813 --> 01:17:43,780 And when he was told, 1296 01:17:43,815 --> 01:17:48,317 "well, you know, proposition 12 is what made this happen, 1297 01:17:48,368 --> 01:17:50,736 "made it so that you couldn't access the courthouse," 1298 01:17:50,770 --> 01:17:52,538 He said, "well, I voted for that!" 1299 01:17:52,573 --> 01:17:55,458 And they said, "well, you know, a lot of people did. 1300 01:17:55,492 --> 01:17:57,410 "and that's why it's the law of the land now." 1301 01:17:57,444 --> 01:18:00,378 He said, "but that doesn't... That's not my case, 1302 01:18:00,413 --> 01:18:02,914 "that's for those people who file frivolous lawsuits. 1303 01:18:02,948 --> 01:18:05,466 "that's for those people who are trying to take advantage of the system. 1304 01:18:05,500 --> 01:18:09,503 "that's for those people who are trying to cash in on some lawsuit lottery. 1305 01:18:09,554 --> 01:18:11,137 "that's not what I'm trying to do. 1306 01:18:11,173 --> 01:18:12,889 "I was harmed, and all I'm trying to do 1307 01:18:12,923 --> 01:18:15,124 "is hold the person who harmed me accountable." 1308 01:18:15,142 --> 01:18:17,894 And he realized at that moment, 1309 01:18:19,647 --> 01:18:22,347 "what I've been told all of these years, 1310 01:18:22,398 --> 01:18:24,150 "they think that's me." 1311 01:18:24,185 --> 01:18:28,820 We don't need tort reform, uh, we need tort respect. 1312 01:18:28,855 --> 01:18:34,141 With the, the tort law is, uh, what makes this country strong. 1313 01:18:34,159 --> 01:18:38,246 It is tort law and the bringing of tort lawsuits, 1314 01:18:38,280 --> 01:18:42,832 And the rendering of civil damages, that's what keeps our toys safe. 1315 01:18:42,867 --> 01:18:46,286 It's what keeps our cars from horribly injuring people. 1316 01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:50,873 It's what keeps people from lying, cheating, and stealing. 1317 01:18:50,924 --> 01:18:53,926 If we can't hold perpetrators of wrongdoing accountable, 1318 01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:55,844 None of us are safe from their actions. 1319 01:18:55,879 --> 01:18:59,031 That's the role that the civil justice system plays. 1320 01:18:59,065 --> 01:19:05,269 The one entity that can hold businesses, bad doctors accountable is the civil jury, 1321 01:19:05,303 --> 01:19:07,137 And that's what they're most afraid of. 1322 01:19:07,171 --> 01:19:12,692 Why is it that you support an effort to limit the ability of juries to make a decision 1323 01:19:12,726 --> 01:19:14,945 When you're suing business, 1324 01:19:14,979 --> 01:19:21,317 But you support the idea that juries should be allowed to decide in death penalty cases, 1325 01:19:21,351 --> 01:19:25,186 Where the issue is whether or not some person should die? 1326 01:19:25,204 --> 01:19:28,240 Ultimately, it comes down to whether you trust juries. 1327 01:19:28,291 --> 01:19:32,377 Certainly it's the best system anybody's come up with, in the history of the world, 1328 01:19:32,411 --> 01:19:35,696 To resolve disputes involving ordinary people. 1329 01:19:35,714 --> 01:19:38,031 And then the question becomes, what's the alternative? 1330 01:19:38,049 --> 01:19:41,217 So, should we let the businesses decide? Should we let arbitrators decide? 1331 01:19:41,252 --> 01:19:46,038 If we give up the civil jury, uh, as a tool for holding uh, wrongdoers, 1332 01:19:46,056 --> 01:19:50,260 And the business community, uh, accountable, what's the alternative? 1333 01:19:50,311 --> 01:19:51,760 Who's going to police them? 1334 01:19:51,811 --> 01:19:53,845 And the answer is no one, they're going to police themselves. 1335 01:19:53,879 --> 01:19:55,814 And that's exactly what they want. 1336 01:20:04,689 --> 01:20:10,227 It really opened my eyes to how the system works, 1337 01:20:10,245 --> 01:20:16,566 And, um, the things that I thought were in place to protect you have been, 1338 01:20:16,584 --> 01:20:18,066 Have been taken away. 1339 01:20:18,084 --> 01:20:21,420 And I didn't realize there were caps here, 1340 01:20:21,454 --> 01:20:25,090 And I didn't realize that the doctor wouldn't have to pay for this, 1341 01:20:25,125 --> 01:20:28,676 That the taxpayers were going to pay for colin's damages. 1342 01:20:46,893 --> 01:20:50,412 This is a campaign that's occurring all across the United States, 1343 01:20:50,446 --> 01:20:52,564 It's not only in mississippi. 1344 01:20:53,817 --> 01:20:55,984 They don't want a level playing field, 1345 01:20:56,035 --> 01:20:59,903 And they'll spend millions of dollars to get these people in place, 1346 01:20:59,937 --> 01:21:05,358 To be sure that the judges will rule the way that they want them too. 1347 01:21:18,087 --> 01:21:22,858 I still have flashbacks, I still get jumpy if someone comes up behind me, 1348 01:21:22,892 --> 01:21:25,142 I have nightmares. 1349 01:21:25,177 --> 01:21:29,513 I wish that I could confront the men that did this to my body. 1350 01:21:29,564 --> 01:21:32,849 I think that it would be instrumental to my healing. 1351 01:21:32,883 --> 01:21:38,238 The only way I could do that is if I'm able to face them in a court of law. 1352 01:21:39,406 --> 01:21:41,858 And I hope to do that one day. 1353 01:21:57,338 --> 01:22:01,843 I mean, I've heard so many ridiculous stories about, she was asking for $30 million or, 1354 01:22:01,877 --> 01:22:04,010 You know, something equally ridiculous. 1355 01:22:04,045 --> 01:22:08,598 Basically, stella told them, "I want you to cover what medicare doesn't cover, 1356 01:22:08,633 --> 01:22:10,800 "and I want you to get a better lid on that coffee, 1357 01:22:10,834 --> 01:22:13,168 "'cause I don't want this to happen to another person." 1358 01:22:13,186 --> 01:22:16,138 And that was basically what she was asking for. 1359 01:22:16,172 --> 01:22:22,143 When somebody goes to court, they're doing something extraordinary that is hidden. 1360 01:22:22,177 --> 01:22:26,830 To go to court and to sue is not a simple procedure. 1361 01:22:26,865 --> 01:22:29,366 You have to go through a lot of trouble to do it, 1362 01:22:29,402 --> 01:22:33,704 It affects your life, you're going to be attacked in all kinds of ways... 1363 01:22:33,738 --> 01:22:39,041 Going to court to gain justice is heroic. 1364 01:22:39,076 --> 01:22:42,462 That idea has to be out there. 1365 01:22:42,496 --> 01:22:47,916 That is, when you, quote, win a case, you win it for other people, 1366 01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:51,169 As well as gaining justice for yourself. 127670

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