All language subtitles for Da Vinci s Demons - 1x08 - The Lovers.HDTV.EVOLVE.en

We are known as
the Sons of Mithras.

Ignis fatuus, that's what this
Sons of Mithras business is.

If I marry Camilla Pazzi...

You and I can still snatch a
little freedom here and there.

Do we kill Lorenzo
coming up the path?

Strike only when
the brothers are together.

Lucrezia Donati?

Saddle the horses for Siena.
We'll question her directly.

- And here's our final savior.
- Gentlemen.

What possesses you
to betray Lorenzo, to betray us all?

- You are Lucrezia Donati's father.
- Indeed.

L'Artista,
I see you escaped.

And I see a key.

Cosimo de Medici
was a Son of Mithras.

A ship provisioned
for a journey.

The Vault of Heaven
is out there.

♪

♪ Da Vinci's Demons 1x08 ♪
The Lovers
Original Air Date on June 7, 2013

== sync, corrected by elderman ==

♪

Allahu Akbar.

Allahu Akbar.

What does the future hold
for the Sons of Mithras, Al-Rahim?

Augury is a tricky business.

I see grim tidings.

Darkness, despair.

The usual cant
and caper, then.

You would make light of our
circumstances, Cosimo de Medici?

Light is the only thing
that sustains me, my friend.

Are there no bright spots
on the horizon, then?

There is one,
a boy from Vinci.

He has promise.

Even now, events conspire to
bring him to Florence.

Am I to keep an eye on him?

Only from a distance.

He must ascend or fall
by his own devices.

And speaking of devices,

we give you this
for safe-keeping.

Someone will come for this when
it is time to make the journey.

Perhaps, the boy Al-Rahim
speaks of.

Assuming he
survives his trial.

I have faith he will.

If I'm to keep
the candles burning,

I'll need more reassurances
than faith and a vague prophecy.

I'm afraid I cannot give you
any reassurances.

If the future indicated by
these signs comes to pass,

only one of us
will live to see it.

So which lucky one
gets to survive?

You misunderstand.

The dead will
be the lucky ones.

The one who lives
to see this future...

..he will truly suffer.

I'm going to miss
this place.

And you. I'll miss you as well,
my friends.

We've followed you into more
scrapes than I care to count.

Why not add another
to the tally?

I can't ask you to follow me
across an ocean.

We want to,
Maestro.

The Vault of Heaven,
the Book of Leaves,

we want to be there
when you find them.

The boy's a half-wit
moon-calf

who'd smother his balls in
ox dung if you told him to.

As for me? I've accrued
some gambling debts

that make my near-term residence
in Florence problematic.

So where to next?
We'll need a ship, won't we?

The Portuguese
are establishing

trade routes
along Western Africa.

We'll book passage to
the Canary Islands.

After that,
we'll have to improvise.

First, I've certain accounts to
settle with the House of Medici.

Why bother with the Medicis?
Why not skirt Florence entirely?

There are things I have
to say to Lorenzo.

Words for his ears alone.

Shall we meet at the
Barking Dog this evening?

Why not? A pint, one last foray
into a Florentine slit for luck.

We can see if Nico's balls
have dropped.

That's odd.

That's a Lanner Falcon.

They're rare this side
of the Adriatic.

Turkey, Africa, yes.
But here?

- It lost its way. It happens.
- No, not often.

The last time
I saw a Lanner

was the day my mother
disappeared.

- You say they hail from Turkey?
- Mm.

I'll wager that bird's
an omen, meant for you alone.

I should follow it.

I said it's an omen. If anything, you
should ride in the opposite direction.

- I'll meet you at the Dog.
- Leo!

Yah!

I take it you now believe
in visions...

..and demons?

Where can be Giuliano be?

How badly did you handle your talk
with him about this marriage?

He knew he had
to wed the girl.

He agreed there
was no other way

to halt our feud
with the Pazzis,

yet I've not seen
a trace of him for days.

Did you actually hear him
utter the words, "I agree",

or did you only hear
what you wanted to hear?

He agreed.

Giuliano may
not arrive at all.

I say we strike.

Kill Lorenzo and Clarice
while we have them here.

Are you so blind to the success
of your rivals?

The brothers are popular.

Murdering only one will
allow the survivor

to rally the city
against us.

Only with the shock
of losing both men at once

will Florence
bow to new leaders.

You can send your men after
Giuliano, wherever he is.

I can handle
Lorenzo myself.

Do so and you defy the will
of Rome, Francesco.

I warn you now.

Remarkable.

According to lore,

these will open
the Vault of Heaven.

Solomon Ogbai, the Abyssinian,
told you its location?

He told me it rested

on an old peak,
in a town made of stone.

Beneath something called "the
hitching post of the sun."

With these keys and
the map to the Vault itself,

it would appear the Book of Leaves
lies firmly within our grasp.

When was the last time
the Book was actually seen?

A thousand years ago.

When the Library
of Alexandria burned.

Yet we still have faith
it exists.

Faith.

It always comes down to that,
doesn't it?

Never anything that can be
proven. Just...

It's just smoke.

It's tales by the camp fire.

You're angry.

Pope Sixtus claims you're
an agent of the Ottomans.

The Sons of Mithras
are not constrained

by geographic borders.

Our stewardship
encompasses all mankind.

Well, this particular man

is tired
of being manipulated.

If you are lost in a forest
and you see a landmark,

is that landmark manipulating
you along a certain path?

I am merely your guide.

But if I ignore
your chosen path, then--

I'll never
find my mother, will I?

She's a poor
little thing.

Mending Camilla Pazzi's heart
will be the least of our concerns

if my brother sabotages
this feast.

The snub could propel us all into
still more years of blood feud.

Look at Francesco.
Look at them all.

- The Pazzis glower like that.
- Exactly.

Today was supposed to be
different.

How long should we wait?

Always so impatient, Francesco.

Talk with them.

Complain of the scandal
of Giuliano's absence.

Your anger at the cur's
impudence

will disguise
your desire to kill.

Or it may just spur me
to strike even faster.

Captain, tracking the comings and goings
of Florentines is your specialty.

Where is my brother?

I cannot say.

A week ago, my Officer Bertino
asked permission

to accompany
Giuliano to Siena.

I've seen neither
of them since.

Why Siena?

Giuliano,

apparently longed for one last
fling before his nuptials.

The pious Bertino promised to
keep him from too much trouble.

What if Bertino failed?

What if Giuliano
was waylaid on the road?

Surely that's the only
reason he'd insult us

with his
absence today.

Take a few men
and search the roads

between Florence
and Siena.

All of us yearn to know what has
become of Giuliano, Captain.

Settle the matter for us.
Please.

There is a ship bound for
Cape Verde, the Basilisk.

Under the command
of Antonio de Noli.

As we speak,
de Noli is in Florence,

loading a barge with provisions
for a journey.

At dawn, he takes
the barge to Pisa,

where the Basilisk
is anchored.

You, Leonardo, must book passage
on that ship.

With your
navigational skills,

the Basilisk will survive
the storms

and reach another land
entirely,

where the Book of Leaves awaits.

Some years ago, a magician promised
me he would hide something for you.

A magician?

Cosimo de Medici?

Cached within Cosimo's tomb
is a mariner's astrolabe.

With it, you will navigate
the Basilisk safely

to the lands
indicated on the map.

Cosimo hid it in a way that
only you would solve his riddle.

As ever, you know the right
games to tantalize me.

You must carry the astrolabe
onto that barge.

The Book of Leaves,
of your mother's fate,

will remain a mystery.

Isn't this the moment
where you spin a coin,

put me into a trance?

No coins.

No trances.

You either book passage West
or you don't.

You succeed or you fail.

The choice and the consequences
are yours.

- Be still, child.
- I'm going to be sick.

You're already sick. No-one
calls for me if they're well.

Here. Hold this.

You've not stepped over
a grave, have you?

Or drunk milk
that's gone to spoil?

No, Ottavia.
Nothing like that.

Here. Piss into this.

I saw a butcher's daughter last week,
blubbering on about a malady akin to this.

Had to split her open.
Worms.

Oh. Cloudy as a winter's dawn.

Is that bad?

A pinch or two of this
every two days,

and be sure to stay out
of the light of the moon.

Not for your
sake but for his.

For who?

Your son. You're
not with worms, girl.

You're with child.

Bring me to him.

I've sent Clarice away to spare her
whatever tragedy you may have brought here.

Delay no more. Show me.

My Officer Bertino.
Found on the road to Siena.

Hacked to death. Bandits?

Most likely. Yet we found
no trace of Giuliano.

Take more men.
Find him, alive or dead.

I must know my brother's fate.

Where am I?

In the Val d'Elsa, Signor.

We found you in the river,
more dead than alive.

I nursed your wounds.

I thank you for that.

Soon as I seen your clothes,
I knew you was a nobleman.

And yet, you didn't rob me.

Wouldn't be Christian.

What day is it?
How long have I been out?

Holy Saturday, Signor.

When they laid Christ's body
in the tomb.

Argh!

I have to get
back to Florence.

I need to warn Lorenzo.

You need to rest, son.

I can't.

No time.

Hm. The dead still walk.

I assumed you had to be dead.

Some said you traveled to
Wallachia, others to Rome.

- Which was it?
- Both.

Ah. Both.

So why are we meeting
here? Hm?

What intrigue are you
involving me in this time?

This tomb, you designed it
for Cosimo?

To an extent.

Like Cosimo's portrait,

is it possible this tomb
contains secret mysteries?

This mosaic,
see how the circles

weave through the design.

Step back
and focus only on that.

King Solomon's Knot.

The ancient symbol representing
the wisdom of eternity.

Yes.

Other men live among
the trappings of this world.

But Cosimo's face was
always turned beyond

worldly distractions

to the universe above.

He had the most agile mind
I've ever known...

..until I met you.

You honor me.

You're the closest thing
I've ever known to a father.

I'm about to
leave you again.

This time, on a quest
from which I may never return.

Every question you answer
leads to another question.

And such quests lead many
to nothing but misery.

The true misery

is if all the questions
are solved,

cos then there's
nothing left to ask.

- Where do you voyage now?
- It depends on what I find here.

I designed no
secret compartment.

Ah! But--

but the Magician

could install one without
anyone knowing.

Like a flaw.

Cosimo would never have
permitted it.

And yet...

Look. Look! Do you see?

It's exactly the same as
the semi-circles

in King Solomon's Knot.

And Cosimo's gaze
reflected

on Libra,

the scales
of balance.

Perhaps there's a matching
discrepancy?

Here. Do you see?
There. Look.

Do they form an axis?

Well, if so, then there must be
another axis that crosses it.

Exactly.

Starting here.

Then its mate would be...

Here. Look.

The center of the knot

would be--

directly
above the heart.

The question answered.

Which leads
to another question.

Yes.

Magnificently so.

Signor!

Signor Medici,
where have you been?

What's befallen you?

Treachery.
A moment alone, Captain?

Bertino and I determined
Lucrezia Donati to be a spy.

You cannot mean it.

We sought her out in Siena, and came
across her being attacked by bandits.

We dispatched them but at
the cost of Bertino's life.

Lucrezia stabbed me.

Left me for dead.

She is an agent of
and Riario and Pope Sixtus.

Capaldi! Ride with Black Martin.
Tell Lorenzo Giuliano lives.

I will escort him home at a pace
his wounds allow. Go. Go!

Thank you, Captain,
for your consideration.

It is nothing.

Someone needs to tend to you.

We had a contract.

You break it and
I will be justified

in depriving you
of your freedom.

And what happened
to the last man

who tried to pen me up
in Florence?

You'll find me more
of a match to you

than that
hapless magistrate.

I would.

What about a small duchy
of your own?

That would give you
the freedom to amass

all the knowledge
you like.

And you have duchies
sitting around

to hand out
like party favors?

The Duke of Urbino and I made an
alliance to move on the Papacy.

That will give us
the ability to give you

the legitimacy
you have never had.

I suspect your
alliance is dead.

At the Vatican I saw
the Duke of Urbino himself.

One can't miss the man.
He looked quite at home.

So as you desert me,
you bring me word that

my only other source
of military defense

is a sham?

You approached him because
you knew he had a price, yes?

Someone outbid you.

Fuck you.

Artists approach me
all the time.

They are full of
vague and glorious ideas

on which they
rarely deliver.

Case in point.

You were warned.

You were warned
in this very room.

I accept many commissions,
I finish few.

I gave you the chance to be the
foremost artist of your day.

I gave you the most desirable
woman in Florence as a subject.

She was never my subject.

You and I love this city,
do we not?

We do.

Then help me save it.

What else can I give you?

What about her?

Her husband's
clearly not an obstacle.

You think I would just toss her
to you just like that?

You have a wife.

Who has her charms.
Who needs attention.

How much does Lucrezia
mean to you, Lorenzo?

Are you willing to set
aside your toy

to keep me in Florence?

Magnifico, your brother
has been found.

Giuliano is alive.

Wounded but alive.

Who wounded him?

Lucrezia Donati.

- And she is also alive?
- It appears so.

What was she doing
attacking Giuliano?

Did she know of
your plans?

Giuliano is unarmed and
in the care of Dragonetti.

He won't live to
see Florence again.

But if people learn Giuliano
has been killed,

Lorenzo will rally
the people behind him.

We must strike
at Lorenzo first.

Easter Mass.

Dawn tomorrow we will
poison Lorenzo in the very act

of taking holy communion,

and damn Cardinal Orsini's
pious hesitations.

It will look as if God himself
has taken down the tyrant.

- What is your name?
- Capaldi.

Find Father Bagnone
and Father Maffei.

Have them prepare the Host
for Lorenzo,

and his wife,

and all his daughters.

Then ride back to Dragonetti and make
sure that Giuliano has met his death.

Consider it done, my lord.

Within hours...
we will own Florence.

But why would Lucrezia agree
to act as Rome's catspaw?

Sixtus only rewards
his own blood.

Did you know he's already rewarded
six of his nephews as cardinals?

- He is loyal.
- To the point of incestuousness.

The virtue of a republic
like Florence

is that offices go to
the most worthy,

appointments are made
only on merit.

I dare say you earned your rank on the
basis of achievement, Dragonetti?

I did.

And you demonstrate
that repeatedly.

The details in your curfew
ledgers -

without them, Bertino and I
could never have uncovered

the name of
Lorenzo's betrayer.

All one needed was the time
to study the records.

And you had the time,
of course.

I do take my work seriously.

That's how she was able to
avoid detection after curfew, isn't it?

She had the perfect alibi,
fucking my brother,

and because the first man to raise
questions about her activities

was already in league
with Rome himself.

I could try
and ride away.

But you're unwounded,
your mount is fresher.

Finish what your spy
began, then.

Perhaps she'll reward you
between her legs.

- That is not what spurs me.
- What does?

A desire for a Florence
that fears God,

not its masters.

Let's get to
your brother's side.

De Noli's barge,
bound for Pisa?

Aye, Signor.

How much to book passage
for three?

We take only freight
and baggage.

I told you,
only freight and baggage.

I have to board the Basilisk.

Yeah, you're beginning
to look like baggage.

Dawn tomorrow.
Don't be late.

Each of my brigades awaits
near one of these gates.

You may consider Florence
already under our control.

- Your men are loyal to you?
- But of course.

Because if they get battle-hungry
and invade prematurely,

the Florentines
will rise against them.

The Florentines are
shopkeepers and clerks.

We're soldiers.

The Florentines live in narrow
corridors and alleyways

where they can strike
unexpectedly.

If they rise to fight
for their home,

it will not resemble the
fields of battle you know.

We have new weapons
for street warfare.

You will follow our lead.

The Pazzis' role in all this
is to overthrow the tyrants,

establish a clear new regime.

While your role is only
to appear if summoned

to cement the
powers-that-will-be into place.

If I choose to move
on Florence myself...

..who are you to stop me?

Tell, me, who is it
that pays your men?

You sit in the middle,
conveying their wages

which issue from the vaults
of Rome.

Act against me,

and that same city
shall brand you a heretic,

strip you of your titles,
and excommunicate you.

Resist further,
and His Holiness

will have that metal eyepiece
of yours melted down

and poured over your testicles in
the middle of the Piazza Navona.

I've seen what he's capable
of with...both of my eyes.

Your man returns.

Perhaps with news
from my brother.

He comes not from
Il Magnifico -

but from Count Riario -

to confirm I've killed you.

Why is he not riding away
with news I'm still alive?

I think he has another plan.

Hold.

- What are you doing?
- What's best for Florence.

Aargh!

Pick up his sword.

You'll need a weapon if you're
going to save your brother.

Do it now, Giuliano. Before
I change my mind again.

It's me.

You think I don't know
your footsteps?

Give me a reason...

why I shouldn't puncture
your neck this instant.

Not today.

You poisoned Vanessa and I risked
dementia trying to save her.

You shared the secrets of my
war machinery with Riario

and put the city at peril.

This...this denunciation

that names me
a sexual criminal,

had me thrown
in jail to face the bonfire.

This is your work!

I had Nico send you to the convent
to keep your friend alive.

I begged for your mercy
during the trial

and made enemies
who seek my life.

You will never understand
the risks I have taken...

- To keep your father alive.
- What?

I know. I know.

He wishes me to tell you
how much he loves you.

I spoke with him in his cell
in Castel Sant'angelo.

Then you grasp the hold
they have maintained over me.

It's a hold so strong...

..that you would even poison
an innocent man.

And what of the risks you have
faced in search of your mother?

Huh?

If it fell to you
to keep her alive,

would you say "No, I'll
preserve another's life"?

I would find another way.

Yeah, how easy it is
for you to believe that.

I would understand
your actions, Lucrezia...

..if your father hadn't rejected
my offer to set him free.

- You're lying.
- No.

You've committed
these sins for nothing.

Your work argues that man
is capable of anything.

Well, between us,
we prove it.

You show us the heights that we can
reach and I show us the depths.

Of late...

..I've met men
who dwell in shadows,

speaking of...
other times and other lives.

Maybe...
if they're correct...

..a life exists
in which we...

Yes. Yes.

Yes.

No, I can't do this.
I can't.

- Please. Please.
- I can't. I can't.

I have to go.
I have to...

A ship waits in Pisa to take
me to the Book Of Leaves.

If I'm not on the Basilisk...

Riario and the Pazzis
are moving on Florence.

- They want to kill Lorenzo.
- I could care less, what they do.

Let the politicians kill each
other, that's their forte.

Leonardo, please, you are
only one who can stop this.

If you're not going to do it
for me or for Lorenzo,

then do it for Florence.

For Florence?

For Florence? The city
that turned its back on me?

The bastard son?

The sodomite?

A younger Da Vinci might've
bought your arguments, Lucrezia.

But...I've endured too much
these last few months

to be swayed by sentiment.

It's Easter.

If Florence demands
a sacrifice...

..I suggest
you offer yourself.

You still endeavor to taint the
air with that foul stench, I see.

A vice.

One that Girolamo
sees fit to allow me.

Not the only one.

I've never understood your
obsession with this game.

I imagine you've played
thousands of times,

and what has it brought you?

Know thy self,

know thine enemy.

It is but a recreation.

True strategic mastery

must be forged
in the arena of life.

- Happy Easter.
- Indeed.

For today brings not only
the resurrection of Christ...

..but the resurrection of
Florence under Rome's rule.

Soon, all the Italian
states will fall into line.

I will then
turn my attention

to the true enemy of God...

..the Ottoman Empire.

A final Holy War.

A glorious victory for which
I will be made...

a saint.

Beware of practicing
your righteousness

before other people
in order to be seen by them,

for then there will be
no reward from your Father...

who is in heaven.

I must thank you.

For without you, I could never
have achieved today's triumph.

And for this,
perhaps you would offer me...

..something in return?

Hmm.

I believe it's time
you and I...

..played another game.

Don't you agree... Brother?

Is all in place?

Fathers Bagnone and Maffei
are preparing the poison.

And the Cardinal?

He's too fucking pious to be
told of this change of plans.

While he prays, the priests will deliver
the tainted Eucharist to Lorenzo.

Quattrone. Medici loyalist.

If he goes against us,

he'll join Lorenzo
in the afterlife.

Is there any news
of Da Vinci?

The last I heard,
he was in Rome.

He's countered us
again and again!

Can we act if we don't know
the man's whereabouts?

Calm yourself,
Francesco.

We have long prepared.
All is ready.

Signorina,
you make an old man...

believe in the perfectibility
of mankind.

Thank you, Maestro.

What troubles you,
Vanessa?

Have you seen Giuliano
de Medici?

I must speak to him.
He needs to hear this.

Quickly,
before the Cardinal sees.

Ensure that these wafers
go to the Medicis,

and only the Medicis.

And then we can truly
celebrate this mass.

Happy Easter, Lorenzo.

And to you,
Francesco.

Where is Giuliano?

I'm sure Dragonetti
will bring him straight here.

I'm sure of nothing today.

God's trousers, Leo. Where the
fuck have you been all night?

Only haunted
by a final farewell.

The barge is loaded and the
captain's keen to depart.

Impatient canker blossom threatened to
double the fee if he waited any longer.

Well...then let's
save some coin

and be on our way.

What's this?

This is us asking the Fates
where the fuck you've been.

The Chariot. Reversed?

Uncontrolled passion,
leading to defeat.

Time to leave, I'd say.
Come on.

It's so quiet.

The bells have stopped.

Mass has begun.

Fuck.

There's something I must do.

- There's no time.
- The barge won't wait. Make a decision.

The Book Of Leaves or whoever
tears you away. You can't have both.

I can. I can, if you just find a way
to keep them here until I return.

I'm not gonna be long.
Just stall them, Zo.

Please!

There's another meaning
to that card.

A journey thwarted.

In nominee Patris, et Filii,
et Spiritus Sancti.

- Amen.
- Amen.

Do you fear God, Signora?

The wise...
both fear and love God.

Why then do you hesitate
to enter His house?

Because it isn't God who waits
for me inside those doors.

..tui, cum oblationibus
hostiarum:

ut paschalibus
initiata mysteriis,

ad aeternitatis
nobis medelam,

te operante, proficiant.

Per Dominum.

Riders approach.

Two.

Hell is descending
upon this city.

Get yourself
to safety. Now.

What has happened to you?

God will permit no violence.

You cannot disrupt
a sacred mass!

- Sheathe your weapon!
- I'm sorry, but I cannot.

Cease your intrusion.
This is a House of God.

And God loves truth.
Let him speak.

The Pazzis conspire
against us - my family!

They're in league with Rome
and betray all Florence!

People and Liberty!
Death to the Medicis!

Go. Take our daughters
to safety.

They'll have men at the
doors. Find a way out. Go!

- Giuliano!
- Lorenzo!

Towards the door.

You betray our cause,
Captain.

Your cause
betrays Florence.

Flee, my lady! It is a chaos
of swords in there!

Kill them!

Brother! Brother!
Help your family!

Rome is my family.

Forgive me.

- Aaargh!
- Giuliano!

Die, Medici scum!

The wife and children.
Go, go!

Oh, Giuliano! Oh, no! No!

No!

Come on!

Aaargh!

Clarice...please!

Come on.

I'm...I'm dying, Vanessa.

Your line will live on.
In me.

I'm bearing your child,
your son, Giuliano.

Vanessa, it's too late.
Vanessa, leave him.

Leave him! Vanessa!

- No! No!
- Yes. Come on.

Stay with me.

Drop it, dear cousin.

No, no!

You imagine I can't take on
the lot of you?

Riario.

If your true loyalty is to
the Medicis, Captain...

..I suggest you take them away
and leave this one to me.

- But Signora Donati...
- Has betrayed you for Rome.

Leave them to each other,
Signora.

Children.

Hurry.

No...

I've prayed for this day.
Today, Florence rejoices.

Are you certain of that, Pazzi?

Aaargh!

Before you die, Lorenzo,

know that I'll kill every
last Medici in Florence.

I'll wipe all evidence of your
family's existence from this world!

Iron rusts from disuse.

Let us finish off
the Medicis, scribbler,

and we might let you live.

A Florence ruled by Pazzis? No!

No. I think I'd rather
go down fighting.

As you wish.

Come on. Come on!

Come on! Come on!

- That won't hold long.
- The doors will hold.

Verrocchio designed
the locks.

Giuliano?
Have I lost a brother?

Come on! Come on, come on!

Da Vinci!

Upon my arrival
I saw only you.

- I knew you wouldn't abandon us.
- Stop. Save your strength.

Da Vinci!

It'll be over soon, Lucrezia!

I'm sorry, Leonardo. You've saved my
life, and I know what it's cost you...

Ssh. Save your praise
for someone who deserves it.

I wonder which of the two men you
fuck will be buried alongside you?

You chose Florence
over your own dreams.

You will accept my love.

It is the least
I can offer you.

This ring.
I know this ring.

It's Lucrezia's.

Are you fucking her...
or is it more?

You better finish the job they
have begun or I swear...

if we survive this,
I'll kill you both.

God's vengeance
is upon you!

== sync, corrected by elderman ==