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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:10,093 --> 00:00:11,853 Once negotiations broke down, 2 00:00:11,845 --> 00:00:13,805 we were left with little choice. 3 00:00:13,805 --> 00:00:16,015 The decision was made for us to insert gas 4 00:00:16,016 --> 00:00:18,846 in an effort to coerce those on the inside to come out. 5 00:00:20,895 --> 00:00:24,185 We followed protocol to a T. 6 00:00:24,190 --> 00:00:27,530 The Davidians were raining down gunfire on my men. 7 00:00:27,527 --> 00:00:29,317 It looked like Christmas out there with bullets hitting 8 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,700 our tanks, and my men showed such restraint. 9 00:00:32,699 --> 00:00:36,829 Not a single shot was returned from the FBI. 10 00:00:36,828 --> 00:00:39,658 Now with that being said, are there tactics 11 00:00:39,664 --> 00:00:42,174 or decisions that you would've made differently? 12 00:00:44,419 --> 00:00:45,749 Not a one. 13 00:00:47,088 --> 00:00:48,508 Not a one, huh? 14 00:00:48,506 --> 00:00:50,256 This is not an assault. 15 00:00:50,258 --> 00:00:52,548 The siege is over now. 16 00:00:55,513 --> 00:00:58,813 The gas you will be smelling is a non-lethal tear gas. 17 00:00:58,808 --> 00:01:00,688 Exit the compound. 18 00:01:00,685 --> 00:01:02,185 ...M60 vehicle, 19 00:01:02,187 --> 00:01:03,897 this combat engineering vehicle, 20 00:01:03,897 --> 00:01:05,477 uh, pumped tear gas... 21 00:01:08,777 --> 00:01:11,527 Gary, the Davidians had a death wish. 22 00:01:11,529 --> 00:01:13,569 That's not on the FBI. 23 00:01:13,573 --> 00:01:15,913 This thing was never gonna turn out any different than it did. 24 00:01:15,909 --> 00:01:17,829 If anything, we should've gone in sooner, 25 00:01:17,827 --> 00:01:19,577 once we realized that negotiations 26 00:01:19,579 --> 00:01:20,869 weren't yielding any results. 27 00:01:20,872 --> 00:01:22,792 No results? Yeah. 28 00:01:24,709 --> 00:01:29,089 You know I seem to recall negotiating 35 people out 29 00:01:29,089 --> 00:01:31,969 of that building safely, including 21 children. 30 00:01:31,966 --> 00:01:34,586 You're acting like we rushed in. 31 00:01:34,594 --> 00:01:37,974 We waited 51 days, we gave you 51 days 32 00:01:37,972 --> 00:01:40,432 to try to talk 'em out, and you couldn't do it. 33 00:01:44,145 --> 00:01:45,935 Why isn't anyone coming out? They should be coming out. 34 00:01:47,357 --> 00:01:48,567 No! 35 00:01:49,943 --> 00:01:51,783 ...inside this building. 36 00:01:51,778 --> 00:01:53,608 Seventeen of those 95 people, children. 37 00:01:53,613 --> 00:01:54,613 Some 30... 38 00:01:57,659 --> 00:01:59,949 We give up. We give up. Okay. 39 00:01:59,953 --> 00:02:01,003 Somebody help me! 40 00:02:00,995 --> 00:02:02,785 We got people down here! 41 00:02:02,789 --> 00:02:05,539 Wait! Wait! 42 00:02:05,542 --> 00:02:08,802 You failed, you didn't do your job, so we had to do ours. 43 00:02:08,795 --> 00:02:11,125 Gentlemen, why don't we all take a break? 44 00:02:11,131 --> 00:02:12,631 Hmm? 45 00:02:12,632 --> 00:02:15,802 Give everyone a chance to cool down. 46 00:02:15,802 --> 00:02:18,762 Gary, you need to get your shit together. 47 00:02:18,763 --> 00:02:20,313 We need to come clean, Alan. 48 00:02:20,306 --> 00:02:22,096 Oh. - People are angry 49 00:02:22,100 --> 00:02:23,810 about what happened in Waco, and they're scared 50 00:02:23,810 --> 00:02:27,150 because they think that we did it on purpose. 51 00:02:28,189 --> 00:02:29,729 And we're too scared 52 00:02:29,732 --> 00:02:31,112 to tell them the truth, that they're wrong. 53 00:02:31,109 --> 00:02:33,489 It wasn't part of some master plan. 54 00:02:33,486 --> 00:02:36,026 It was just a bunch of bad decisions and incompetence. 55 00:02:36,030 --> 00:02:37,990 Speak for yourself, Gary. 56 00:02:37,991 --> 00:02:39,951 Your men, they may have been incompetent. 57 00:02:39,951 --> 00:02:42,291 Mine sure weren't. 58 00:02:42,287 --> 00:02:44,327 Oh, yeah. 59 00:02:44,330 --> 00:02:47,830 Well, the medal is in the mail, Mitch. 60 00:02:47,834 --> 00:02:49,674 Sunny day today. We can expect 61 00:02:49,669 --> 00:02:51,799 much, much more of the same over the next few days. 62 00:02:51,796 --> 00:02:53,666 You might wanna do some of those outdoor activities 63 00:02:53,673 --> 00:02:55,343 you've been saving up for. - Thanks, Sammy. 64 00:02:55,341 --> 00:02:56,471 Coming up next, 65 00:02:56,467 --> 00:02:57,967 the trial of the Waco Five 66 00:02:57,969 --> 00:02:59,849 begins in San Antonio this week 67 00:02:59,846 --> 00:03:02,766 as a federal grand jury indicted five of the surviving 68 00:03:02,765 --> 00:03:06,095 Branch Davidians for unlawful possession of firearms, 69 00:03:06,102 --> 00:03:09,152 and aiding in the murder of federal officers. 70 00:03:09,147 --> 00:03:10,937 You ask me, 71 00:03:10,940 --> 00:03:12,650 it's the FBI that should be standing trial, 72 00:03:12,650 --> 00:03:14,860 not those religious nuts. 73 00:03:14,861 --> 00:03:16,991 Our government just went in there, 74 00:03:16,988 --> 00:03:19,698 burned those people alive, women and children. 75 00:03:19,699 --> 00:03:21,869 I think every ATF and FBI agent 76 00:03:21,868 --> 00:03:24,038 at Waco should go to jail. 77 00:03:24,913 --> 00:03:27,963 dramatic music plays 78 00:03:34,839 --> 00:03:37,129 theme music plays 79 00:04:39,570 --> 00:04:41,110 Noesner. Yeah. 80 00:04:41,114 --> 00:04:42,624 It's been awhile. 81 00:04:42,615 --> 00:04:44,195 Oh yeah, sure has, since what? 82 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,080 The, uh, Atlanta Prison Riots? 83 00:04:46,077 --> 00:04:47,577 No, I feel like I've seen you since. 84 00:04:47,578 --> 00:04:50,458 Oh, yeah? So, uh, what's on the menu today? 85 00:04:50,456 --> 00:04:53,576 Well, we got four guys wearing ex-presidents masks. 86 00:04:53,584 --> 00:04:56,924 Oh, like that movie Point Break? 87 00:04:56,921 --> 00:04:58,671 Never said they were original. 88 00:04:58,673 --> 00:05:00,723 No, these guys have been running around all over, 89 00:05:00,717 --> 00:05:02,757 robbing banks in Oklahoma, 90 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,970 Arkansas, 21 in all. 91 00:05:05,972 --> 00:05:09,642 They're efficient, you know, smart, in and out, 90 seconds, 92 00:05:09,642 --> 00:05:12,352 so local authorities had had a hard time figuring out 93 00:05:12,353 --> 00:05:15,443 where they are until today when we got a last-minute tip 94 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,610 that bank was gonna be their next target. 95 00:05:18,609 --> 00:05:20,359 Now, we managed to grab three of the guys, 96 00:05:20,361 --> 00:05:23,031 but one of them has barricaded himself inside, 97 00:05:23,031 --> 00:05:24,621 and he has hostages. 98 00:05:24,615 --> 00:05:25,945 We feel all four of these guys are members 99 00:05:25,950 --> 00:05:27,910 of the Aryan Republican Army. 100 00:05:27,910 --> 00:05:30,750 Oh, great. Nazis. 101 00:05:35,793 --> 00:05:37,633 What? 102 00:05:37,628 --> 00:05:38,918 Hi, my name's Gary. 103 00:05:38,921 --> 00:05:40,171 Who am I speaking with? 104 00:05:40,173 --> 00:05:42,093 People call me "Wild Bill". 105 00:05:43,885 --> 00:05:45,505 Well, Wild Bill, I'm here to help you. 106 00:05:45,511 --> 00:05:47,181 Yeah? Well, you can help me 107 00:05:47,180 --> 00:05:48,470 by getting me a helicopter, 108 00:05:48,473 --> 00:05:49,853 and I want it now 109 00:05:49,849 --> 00:05:51,519 or I'm gonna start killing people. 110 00:05:51,517 --> 00:05:53,517 And don't even think about trying to come in here 111 00:05:53,519 --> 00:05:55,019 because I got a pipe bomb and I will blow 112 00:05:55,021 --> 00:05:57,021 this place sky high if you try it. 113 00:05:57,023 --> 00:05:58,233 Let me look into getting you that helicopter. 114 00:05:58,232 --> 00:05:59,982 I'm serious! 115 00:05:59,984 --> 00:06:01,154 I'm taking you seriously, Wild Bill. 116 00:06:02,195 --> 00:06:04,735 Is Bomb Squad present? - Uh-hmm. 117 00:06:04,739 --> 00:06:06,239 Good. Keep 'em ready. 118 00:06:08,159 --> 00:06:09,739 All right. So, uh, they're gonna need 119 00:06:09,744 --> 00:06:11,374 a little time getting you that helicopter. 120 00:06:11,371 --> 00:06:13,461 No. I want it now! I do, too. 121 00:06:13,456 --> 00:06:15,496 But right now, the only available helicopter 122 00:06:15,500 --> 00:06:17,170 is 50 miles away. 123 00:06:17,168 --> 00:06:18,668 In the meantime, maybe you can tell me 124 00:06:18,669 --> 00:06:20,379 how you got into this mess? 125 00:06:21,672 --> 00:06:23,882 Yeah. I got into this mess 126 00:06:23,883 --> 00:06:27,763 because somebody has to fight back. 127 00:06:27,762 --> 00:06:31,062 You can only push people so far. 128 00:06:31,057 --> 00:06:32,677 That's very true. 129 00:07:33,035 --> 00:07:35,995 Who gave you permission to use that thing in here? 130 00:07:35,997 --> 00:07:39,627 I'm a big boy, I gave myself permission. 131 00:07:39,625 --> 00:07:42,795 Machines are not allowed in here without a court order. 132 00:07:42,795 --> 00:07:45,715 Okay. Here's my court order. 133 00:07:45,715 --> 00:07:47,125 Funny. 134 00:07:47,133 --> 00:07:49,553 I don't see my signature on that. 135 00:07:52,513 --> 00:07:53,933 Judge Smith. 136 00:07:53,931 --> 00:07:58,141 I'm Dan Cogdell. I represent Clive Doyle. 137 00:07:58,144 --> 00:08:00,864 You're not defending anybody with that thing in here. 138 00:08:00,855 --> 00:08:03,765 I want it gone by the time we begin. 139 00:08:03,774 --> 00:08:07,114 Uh, but, Your Honor, I have all my notes in it. 140 00:08:07,111 --> 00:08:08,571 Then I suggest you find a way 141 00:08:08,571 --> 00:08:10,571 to get your notes out of it. 142 00:08:14,327 --> 00:08:16,787 Oh, shit. 143 00:08:16,787 --> 00:08:19,867 dramatic music plays 144 00:08:23,836 --> 00:08:26,376 Baby killers! 145 00:08:26,380 --> 00:08:28,010 How come they hate us so much? 146 00:08:28,007 --> 00:08:29,337 They don't even know us. 147 00:08:32,637 --> 00:08:34,007 We'll be okay... 148 00:08:35,681 --> 00:08:37,181 somehow. 149 00:08:43,231 --> 00:08:44,861 You wanted to present a motion? 150 00:08:45,858 --> 00:08:47,858 I did, Your Honor. 151 00:08:47,860 --> 00:08:51,860 I would ask to predefine inflammatory words. 152 00:08:51,864 --> 00:08:53,374 Inflammatory words? 153 00:08:53,366 --> 00:08:54,866 Yes, Your Honor, we would move 154 00:08:54,867 --> 00:08:56,697 to make certain words inadmissible. 155 00:08:56,702 --> 00:09:00,122 Which words would you recommend we ban, Mr. Cogdell? 156 00:09:01,082 --> 00:09:03,962 Well, for example, 157 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,960 we would motion to exclude the word "compound" 158 00:09:06,963 --> 00:09:09,473 when referring to the home at Mount Carmel, 159 00:09:09,465 --> 00:09:12,005 as the word "compound" has militaristic connotations. 160 00:09:12,009 --> 00:09:14,469 At this point the word "compound" has been used 161 00:09:14,470 --> 00:09:16,930 a million times to refer to Mount Carmel. 162 00:09:16,931 --> 00:09:19,141 But to the defendants this was not a compound, 163 00:09:19,141 --> 00:09:20,691 this was their home 164 00:09:20,685 --> 00:09:22,435 where they lived and raised children, 165 00:09:22,436 --> 00:09:24,226 where they had a God-given right to practice their-- 166 00:09:24,230 --> 00:09:27,070 Save it for the trial, Mr. Cogdell. 167 00:09:27,066 --> 00:09:28,986 Denied. Next. 168 00:09:28,985 --> 00:09:30,395 We would like to exclude the term 169 00:09:30,403 --> 00:09:31,993 "Branch Davidians". 170 00:09:31,988 --> 00:09:33,528 They never call themselves by that name. 171 00:09:33,531 --> 00:09:35,161 Objection. 172 00:09:35,157 --> 00:09:36,697 If we can't call them Branch Davidians, 173 00:09:36,701 --> 00:09:38,491 then what are we supposed to call them? 174 00:09:38,494 --> 00:09:40,004 Out to lunch? Well, I think 175 00:09:39,996 --> 00:09:41,576 we can all agree that moniker 176 00:09:41,581 --> 00:09:43,081 has been thoroughly tarnished by the media. 177 00:09:43,082 --> 00:09:44,502 The term "Branch Davidian" 178 00:09:44,500 --> 00:09:46,670 was tarnished by their own actions. 179 00:09:46,669 --> 00:09:49,089 But, Your Honor, they are not on trial 180 00:09:49,088 --> 00:09:50,718 for their religious beliefs. 181 00:09:50,715 --> 00:09:52,505 The defense used the term "Branch Davidians" 182 00:09:52,508 --> 00:09:53,588 in their own filings. 183 00:09:53,593 --> 00:09:54,893 I have a motion here filed 184 00:09:54,885 --> 00:09:56,255 by Rocket Rosen of the defense. 185 00:09:56,262 --> 00:09:57,892 Who's Rocket Rosen? 186 00:09:57,888 --> 00:10:00,268 I am, Your Honor. 187 00:10:00,266 --> 00:10:01,266 Your name is Rocket? 188 00:10:01,267 --> 00:10:02,517 Yes, Your Honor. 189 00:10:02,518 --> 00:10:04,268 I was born on the 4th of July, 190 00:10:04,270 --> 00:10:06,110 so my daddy named me Rocket. 191 00:10:06,105 --> 00:10:10,685 Well, I was born on October 26, so my daddy named me Walter. 192 00:10:12,111 --> 00:10:14,071 Did you file this motion? - I did. 193 00:10:14,071 --> 00:10:16,371 But that was a mistake. Motion denied. 194 00:10:16,365 --> 00:10:18,275 Next. 195 00:10:18,284 --> 00:10:20,294 The word "cult". 196 00:10:20,286 --> 00:10:23,116 Do they not yet realize that this was a cult? 197 00:10:23,122 --> 00:10:24,582 This was no cult. 198 00:10:24,582 --> 00:10:25,962 It was a communal church 199 00:10:25,958 --> 00:10:27,788 and David Koresh was their pastor. 200 00:10:27,793 --> 00:10:30,963 Once that pastor takes 20 wives 201 00:10:30,963 --> 00:10:33,013 and leads his church to mass suicide, 202 00:10:33,007 --> 00:10:35,427 I would say the word "cult" is applicable. 203 00:10:35,426 --> 00:10:39,176 But the defendants are not on trial for mass suicide. 204 00:10:39,180 --> 00:10:41,470 Nobody thinks that any one of them had anything to do 205 00:10:41,474 --> 00:10:44,444 with any fire or had multiple wives 206 00:10:44,435 --> 00:10:46,645 or took child brides or any of it. 207 00:10:46,646 --> 00:10:48,766 Using the word "cult" is an attempt 208 00:10:48,773 --> 00:10:51,363 to try our clients for another man's sins. 209 00:10:51,359 --> 00:10:52,529 Motion denied. 210 00:10:52,526 --> 00:10:53,686 My client Clive Doyle 211 00:10:53,694 --> 00:10:54,954 was there 15 years 212 00:10:54,945 --> 00:10:56,855 before David Koresh's arrival. 213 00:10:59,075 --> 00:11:01,825 Rose and thorn, Karen? 214 00:11:03,329 --> 00:11:06,619 My thorn is I didn't sleep 215 00:11:06,624 --> 00:11:10,594 very well 'cause Shari kept stealing all the covers. 216 00:11:10,586 --> 00:11:14,336 And rose, I got extra oatmeal at breakfast. 217 00:11:14,340 --> 00:11:17,680 Well, how about you, Shari? 218 00:11:17,677 --> 00:11:20,137 Rose, playing. 219 00:11:20,137 --> 00:11:22,007 Thorn, Karen. 220 00:11:24,016 --> 00:11:25,686 How about you, Dad? 221 00:11:25,685 --> 00:11:30,265 Thorn is my back's been hurting me again. 222 00:11:30,272 --> 00:11:35,242 My rose is that I get to spend this moment right now 223 00:11:35,236 --> 00:11:39,316 with my two favorite people in the entire world, you two. 224 00:11:39,323 --> 00:11:41,493 I have never wavered on this, George, 225 00:11:41,492 --> 00:11:44,872 you don't wear a sidearm for Sabbath service. 226 00:11:44,870 --> 00:11:47,210 Why do you think you're so special, mama? 227 00:11:47,206 --> 00:11:48,706 That you get to make all the rules? 228 00:11:48,708 --> 00:11:51,088 Because I am your prophet. 229 00:12:15,776 --> 00:12:17,146 Don't mind him. 230 00:12:18,362 --> 00:12:21,032 My name is Vernon Howell. 231 00:12:21,031 --> 00:12:24,741 I'm looking for the Prophet Lois Roden. 232 00:12:26,036 --> 00:12:27,156 Come in. 233 00:12:28,956 --> 00:12:30,916 Service is starting. 234 00:12:35,129 --> 00:12:36,259 That's what you don't get. 235 00:12:36,255 --> 00:12:37,915 It's about being a patriot 236 00:12:37,923 --> 00:12:40,223 'cause this country has lost its way. 237 00:12:40,217 --> 00:12:42,597 It's turned against the people 238 00:12:42,595 --> 00:12:43,925 who made it great in the first place. 239 00:12:43,929 --> 00:12:45,219 So what are we supposed to do? 240 00:12:45,222 --> 00:12:46,272 Just wait for things to change 241 00:12:46,265 --> 00:12:47,725 or do we fight back? 242 00:12:47,725 --> 00:12:49,635 And in your eyes, robbing banks 243 00:12:49,643 --> 00:12:51,603 is a way of fighting back? 244 00:12:51,604 --> 00:12:54,154 No, robbing banks was never the point. 245 00:12:54,148 --> 00:12:55,648 Then what is? 246 00:12:57,651 --> 00:12:59,651 Yeah. You'll see. 247 00:13:02,156 --> 00:13:03,566 Yeah, payback's coming. 248 00:13:03,574 --> 00:13:05,284 It's coming sooner than you think. 249 00:13:08,579 --> 00:13:12,249 Look, we've been talking now for 20 hours. 250 00:13:13,959 --> 00:13:15,629 And it seems to me that you and I 251 00:13:15,628 --> 00:13:16,708 aren't gonna agree on much. 252 00:13:16,712 --> 00:13:19,762 So maybe we could focus 253 00:13:19,757 --> 00:13:21,047 on what we do agree on. 254 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:24,180 Yeah, like what? 255 00:13:25,638 --> 00:13:27,468 Like you and your friends have robbed 256 00:13:27,473 --> 00:13:29,063 21 banks successfully, 257 00:13:29,058 --> 00:13:30,808 nobody hurt, perfectly executed. 258 00:13:30,810 --> 00:13:32,810 No, I'm not admitting the other banks. 259 00:13:32,812 --> 00:13:34,942 I'm not asking you to do that. 260 00:13:34,939 --> 00:13:39,319 But you see to the world right now, you're a legend. 261 00:13:39,318 --> 00:13:42,238 You're Robin Hood, 22 banks and you haven't 262 00:13:42,238 --> 00:13:44,908 hurt a single person. 263 00:13:44,907 --> 00:13:47,277 Now you'll do a few years' time for sure. 264 00:13:47,284 --> 00:13:49,334 But then, who knows? 265 00:13:49,328 --> 00:13:51,828 Maybe you'd sell your movie rights 266 00:13:51,831 --> 00:13:54,541 to Hollywood and go sip margaritas on a beach. 267 00:13:56,377 --> 00:14:00,707 But the second you take someone's life, 268 00:14:00,714 --> 00:14:03,344 you are just another murderer. 269 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:06,890 And nobody will care 270 00:14:06,887 --> 00:14:09,677 what you have to say ever again. 271 00:14:09,682 --> 00:14:13,732 You come out of that bank and you're gonna have options. 272 00:14:13,727 --> 00:14:17,267 You come out of that bank, you're gonna have a future. 273 00:14:17,273 --> 00:14:20,943 You want people to hear what you have to say, 274 00:14:20,943 --> 00:14:22,953 then come out of the bank. 275 00:14:30,703 --> 00:14:35,123 Don't shoot! Unarmed! Unarmed! 276 00:14:35,124 --> 00:14:37,384 Clear! Get down on your knees. 277 00:14:38,836 --> 00:14:40,546 Hands on your head. 278 00:14:41,755 --> 00:14:43,295 Interlace your fingers. 279 00:14:48,053 --> 00:14:50,393 Our best strategy is going to be to convince 280 00:14:50,389 --> 00:14:53,519 the jury that David Koresh was misunderstood. 281 00:14:53,517 --> 00:14:55,387 We need to humanize him, make him seem less 282 00:14:55,394 --> 00:14:57,614 like the boogeyman, more relatable. 283 00:14:57,605 --> 00:14:59,105 David Koresh was 284 00:14:59,106 --> 00:15:01,606 an opportunistic narcissistic piece of shit. 285 00:15:01,609 --> 00:15:04,699 We're not in the business of defending Koresh. 286 00:15:04,695 --> 00:15:06,405 He's dead. - 287 00:15:06,405 --> 00:15:07,815 Well, if that's how you feel, 288 00:15:07,823 --> 00:15:09,163 then why'd you even take this case? 289 00:15:09,158 --> 00:15:11,368 The issue can't be whether or not 290 00:15:11,368 --> 00:15:12,828 Koresh was the messiah. 291 00:15:12,828 --> 00:15:15,458 If that's our case, then they win, 292 00:15:15,456 --> 00:15:17,206 because guess what? 293 00:15:17,207 --> 00:15:18,627 He wasn't. 294 00:15:18,626 --> 00:15:20,916 Our case has to be about the fact 295 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:22,710 the United States government 296 00:15:22,713 --> 00:15:25,263 raided these people's home without cause. 297 00:15:25,257 --> 00:15:28,007 And it was their overreach, their hubris 298 00:15:28,010 --> 00:15:31,180 that led to the deaths of 76 people including 17 children. 299 00:15:31,180 --> 00:15:33,270 And in America, you don't get to do that 300 00:15:33,265 --> 00:15:35,555 because, if they can do what they did to our clients 301 00:15:35,559 --> 00:15:37,769 and get away with it, it'll give everyone 302 00:15:37,770 --> 00:15:40,520 with a badge and a gun from a Wackenhut security guard 303 00:15:40,522 --> 00:15:42,612 to Janet Reno the authority 304 00:15:42,608 --> 00:15:44,278 to do whatever they want, 305 00:15:44,276 --> 00:15:45,436 to whomever they want, 306 00:15:45,444 --> 00:15:47,114 however they want. 307 00:15:48,489 --> 00:15:50,619 And that's the argument we need to make. 308 00:15:50,616 --> 00:15:52,446 Amen. Yeah. 309 00:15:52,451 --> 00:15:56,371 What in the hell is that asshole doing here? 310 00:15:56,372 --> 00:15:58,042 You get lost, Johnston, or are you, 311 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,290 uh, here to beg for mercy? 312 00:16:00,292 --> 00:16:04,512 Neither. I've got an offer for you. 313 00:16:04,505 --> 00:16:07,755 They're offering 15 years with the possibility of parole. 314 00:16:07,758 --> 00:16:10,798 What would I have to do if I did take the deal? 315 00:16:10,803 --> 00:16:13,313 You'd have to plead guilty and then testify 316 00:16:13,305 --> 00:16:15,925 against the other members of your group. 317 00:16:15,933 --> 00:16:18,273 No, wait, wait, wait. 318 00:16:18,268 --> 00:16:19,848 Before you close your mind to it, 319 00:16:19,853 --> 00:16:21,613 you should know that they've offered 320 00:16:21,605 --> 00:16:23,475 the same deal to all five of you. 321 00:16:23,482 --> 00:16:25,782 If you don't take it, you face the possibility 322 00:16:25,776 --> 00:16:27,486 of life without parole. 323 00:16:28,737 --> 00:16:31,317 But I didn't do anything. 324 00:16:31,323 --> 00:16:34,413 Clive, unfortunately, that doesn't matter. 325 00:16:34,410 --> 00:16:36,330 It's a conspiracy charge. 326 00:16:36,328 --> 00:16:39,458 If any single one of you is found guilty, 327 00:16:39,456 --> 00:16:41,786 then you're all guilty. 328 00:16:41,792 --> 00:16:45,002 If any one of you pulled the trigger of a gun, 329 00:16:45,004 --> 00:16:47,174 then you all pulled the trigger. 330 00:16:47,172 --> 00:16:49,342 You're gonna rise and fall together. 331 00:16:49,341 --> 00:16:51,841 You got until opening statements to decide 332 00:16:51,844 --> 00:16:54,514 and then the deal's off the table. 333 00:16:56,015 --> 00:16:58,425 Here is what is going to happen. 334 00:16:58,434 --> 00:17:00,854 Instead of arguing about this juror 335 00:17:00,853 --> 00:17:02,313 or that juror, 336 00:17:02,312 --> 00:17:05,112 going back and forth, you, then you. 337 00:17:05,107 --> 00:17:08,857 I am gonna save us a whole lot of time 338 00:17:08,861 --> 00:17:10,531 and the American taxpayer 339 00:17:10,529 --> 00:17:12,569 a lot of money and help pick the jury myself. 340 00:17:12,573 --> 00:17:13,823 So you can all relax. 341 00:17:13,824 --> 00:17:15,704 Objection, Your Honor. 342 00:17:15,701 --> 00:17:17,871 You can't object to me. I'm the judge. 343 00:17:17,870 --> 00:17:19,830 Well, then, uh, exception. 344 00:17:21,206 --> 00:17:22,326 Noted. 345 00:17:26,086 --> 00:17:27,376 Can he do that? 346 00:17:32,009 --> 00:17:34,599 How do you feel about people who join a cult? 347 00:17:34,595 --> 00:17:35,845 Objection. 348 00:17:35,846 --> 00:17:39,056 Exception, Your Hon-- shit. 349 00:17:39,058 --> 00:17:40,178 How do you feel 350 00:17:40,184 --> 00:17:42,024 about people who join 351 00:17:42,019 --> 00:17:44,479 extremist religious groups? 352 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,230 I do have negative feelings towards people 353 00:17:47,232 --> 00:17:51,072 who abuse children if that's what you're asking. 354 00:17:51,070 --> 00:17:52,860 Or people who give their sense of choice 355 00:17:52,863 --> 00:17:55,413 over to false prophets. 356 00:17:55,407 --> 00:17:57,237 You can stay. 357 00:17:57,242 --> 00:17:59,752 So, Clive, how'd you come to be here? 358 00:17:59,745 --> 00:18:02,285 My mom and I heard some of Lois's teachings, 359 00:18:02,289 --> 00:18:04,669 so we followed that message all the way here. 360 00:18:05,584 --> 00:18:07,504 That was 15 years ago. 361 00:18:07,503 --> 00:18:08,843 All the way from Australia? 362 00:18:08,837 --> 00:18:11,087 I don't think I'll ever leave. 363 00:18:11,090 --> 00:18:12,670 Wow. 364 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,510 How about you? What brought you here? 365 00:18:17,513 --> 00:18:18,893 Me? 366 00:18:20,307 --> 00:18:23,137 Well, I learned to read by reading the Bible. 367 00:18:23,143 --> 00:18:25,733 I can't see so well, you know, all the letters 368 00:18:25,729 --> 00:18:28,899 get mixed up and stuff, so I have trouble reading books, 369 00:18:28,899 --> 00:18:31,029 but the Bible. 370 00:18:31,026 --> 00:18:33,486 Man, I could just sit and read it like magic. 371 00:18:35,531 --> 00:18:36,871 And you know what struck me? 372 00:18:36,865 --> 00:18:39,405 Huh. 373 00:18:39,409 --> 00:18:42,249 I mean, for years, I asked anyone who might know, 374 00:18:42,246 --> 00:18:44,616 "Hey, what happened to all those old prophets? 375 00:18:44,623 --> 00:18:46,383 Are there any still living now? 376 00:18:46,375 --> 00:18:49,125 Or did they all get stuck here in this old book?" 377 00:18:49,128 --> 00:18:50,798 And they'd say, "Quiet, boy. 378 00:18:50,796 --> 00:18:52,086 Sit down and listen to what we're teachin'." 379 00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:55,799 But nobody could answer that one question. 380 00:18:55,801 --> 00:18:58,471 So I turned to God and I asked Him, 381 00:18:58,470 --> 00:19:02,890 "Please, if there's a prophet, please lead me there." 382 00:19:04,476 --> 00:19:06,596 Then three days later, out of the blue, 383 00:19:06,603 --> 00:19:08,403 my grandma tells me about some prophet out here 384 00:19:08,397 --> 00:19:10,397 on the plains of Waco. 385 00:19:10,399 --> 00:19:12,399 Her name was Lois Roden, 386 00:19:12,401 --> 00:19:14,611 and she lived at a place called Mount Carmel. 387 00:19:17,030 --> 00:19:19,410 Went to my room, packed my stuff, 388 00:19:19,408 --> 00:19:21,118 got here as fast as I could. 389 00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:26,500 That's... like a miracle. 390 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,170 Yeah, that's what I thought too. 391 00:19:39,303 --> 00:19:41,683 Did they offer you all the plea deal too? 392 00:19:47,853 --> 00:19:49,313 My lawyer told me the worst thing 393 00:19:49,313 --> 00:19:50,563 that could happen is someone else 394 00:19:50,564 --> 00:19:52,194 taking the deal if I don't. 395 00:19:54,318 --> 00:19:58,698 Man, the government wants their pound of flesh 396 00:19:58,697 --> 00:20:00,277 and they're gonna get it 397 00:20:00,282 --> 00:20:01,952 if we don't stay strong and stick together. 398 00:20:01,950 --> 00:20:03,870 Look around this room. 399 00:20:03,869 --> 00:20:06,709 Do you expect anyone is actually going to think 400 00:20:06,705 --> 00:20:09,365 Clive shot federal agents in cold blood? 401 00:20:10,417 --> 00:20:12,207 Or Ruth? 402 00:20:12,211 --> 00:20:14,631 It doesn't matter what they think. 403 00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:17,130 If they think any of us did it, then we all did it. 404 00:20:17,132 --> 00:20:18,722 I wasn't even there. 405 00:20:18,717 --> 00:20:22,467 Do you think any of this is about truth? 406 00:20:22,471 --> 00:20:24,721 Or fairness? Or justice? Because it's not. 407 00:20:24,723 --> 00:20:26,643 It is about anger. 408 00:20:26,642 --> 00:20:30,562 They are gonna roll over us no matter what we do. 409 00:20:30,562 --> 00:20:31,772 So we may as well get through this 410 00:20:31,772 --> 00:20:34,272 with our dignity intact. 411 00:20:36,109 --> 00:20:38,739 The government can make up whatever story they want 412 00:20:38,737 --> 00:20:41,197 about what happened inside Mount Carmel, 413 00:20:41,198 --> 00:20:43,528 but no one knows what you did 414 00:20:43,533 --> 00:20:45,913 or didn't do behind closed doors, 415 00:20:45,911 --> 00:20:49,041 nobody but the people in this room. 416 00:20:49,039 --> 00:20:51,209 So if we stay united 417 00:20:51,208 --> 00:20:53,708 and refute their story, then... 418 00:20:56,421 --> 00:20:58,011 maybe we have a chance. 419 00:21:21,655 --> 00:21:23,445 Oh, shit. 420 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,119 Hey, Dusty, mind if I pick your brain about something? 421 00:21:30,122 --> 00:21:32,712 I was looking at Wild Bill's file. 422 00:21:32,708 --> 00:21:34,628 Why? We already put him in jail. 423 00:21:34,626 --> 00:21:38,296 Well, Wild Bill and his friends successfully robbed 21 banks. 424 00:21:38,297 --> 00:21:39,667 But in their files, 425 00:21:39,673 --> 00:21:40,803 it doesn't seem as though they made 426 00:21:40,799 --> 00:21:43,469 any conspicuous purchases. 427 00:21:43,468 --> 00:21:45,968 That, combined with his comment about "payback," 428 00:21:45,971 --> 00:21:47,641 it was bugging me 429 00:21:47,639 --> 00:21:49,099 and I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything. 430 00:21:49,099 --> 00:21:52,939 So I took a closer look and I found this. 431 00:21:52,936 --> 00:21:54,396 What am I looking at? 432 00:21:55,355 --> 00:21:57,015 You see that flag? 433 00:21:57,024 --> 00:22:00,494 That's the same flag they flew over at Mount Carmel. 434 00:22:00,485 --> 00:22:02,855 David Koresh designed it himself. 435 00:22:02,863 --> 00:22:04,453 Huh. 436 00:22:04,448 --> 00:22:08,368 Did Wild Bill have some connection to Waco? 437 00:22:08,368 --> 00:22:10,158 I doubt it. 438 00:22:10,162 --> 00:22:13,172 The flag is probably used more as a recruitment tool 439 00:22:13,165 --> 00:22:15,915 to fire people up. 440 00:22:15,917 --> 00:22:18,497 Any sense where that photo was taken? 441 00:22:18,503 --> 00:22:20,013 It doesn't say in the file. 442 00:22:21,715 --> 00:22:23,425 It looks like Elohim City to me. 443 00:22:23,425 --> 00:22:25,085 It's a town of sorts. 444 00:22:25,093 --> 00:22:28,643 Started in the early '70s by a group of former Mennonites, 445 00:22:28,638 --> 00:22:30,848 which gave birth to the Christian Identity movement, 446 00:22:30,849 --> 00:22:32,309 which is, basically-- 447 00:22:32,309 --> 00:22:33,439 Christianity for White Supremacists. 448 00:22:33,435 --> 00:22:35,265 Uh-hmm. 449 00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:37,270 We'd need a serious warrant and a small army to go in there. 450 00:22:37,272 --> 00:22:39,692 Something which, after Waco, I don't think any of our bosses 451 00:22:39,691 --> 00:22:41,531 would be willing to take a chance on. 452 00:22:46,073 --> 00:22:48,663 Clive Doyle, you have a visitor. 453 00:22:50,702 --> 00:22:52,122 Let's go. 454 00:22:56,917 --> 00:22:58,377 Some of the other families 455 00:22:58,377 --> 00:22:59,797 mentioned something about a plea deal? 456 00:23:04,424 --> 00:23:07,264 It's true. They've offered one. 457 00:23:07,260 --> 00:23:10,510 I'm not sure I'm gonna take the deal, Karen. 458 00:23:11,390 --> 00:23:12,430 Why not? 459 00:23:14,976 --> 00:23:18,016 Because they want us to say it was our fault. 460 00:23:18,021 --> 00:23:19,191 And it wasn't. 461 00:23:19,189 --> 00:23:21,149 Just get out, Dad. 462 00:23:22,776 --> 00:23:26,816 Shari's gone, everything's gone. 463 00:23:26,822 --> 00:23:29,242 How much more do you feel like you have to suffer? 464 00:23:29,241 --> 00:23:31,831 I loved David too, but it's over! 465 00:23:31,827 --> 00:23:32,907 I need my father back. 466 00:23:32,911 --> 00:23:34,701 I know, but... 467 00:23:34,704 --> 00:23:37,084 You've already lost, Dad. 468 00:23:38,708 --> 00:23:40,668 There's no more point in fighting it. 469 00:23:43,463 --> 00:23:44,763 Anne... 470 00:23:46,633 --> 00:23:48,513 she needs her grandfather. 471 00:23:50,846 --> 00:23:52,096 What? 472 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,600 Really? 473 00:24:02,691 --> 00:24:04,481 There's your rose. 474 00:24:06,319 --> 00:24:07,609 Is it? 475 00:24:07,612 --> 00:24:11,952 dramatic music plays 476 00:24:32,846 --> 00:24:34,756 It's 15 years of loyalty, 477 00:24:34,764 --> 00:24:37,814 15 years of putting my life on the line and then for what? 478 00:24:37,809 --> 00:24:39,229 For what? 479 00:24:39,227 --> 00:24:40,477 Hey, hey, get your hands off me, man. 480 00:24:40,479 --> 00:24:41,809 Get off me. 481 00:24:49,196 --> 00:24:51,156 Weren't you-- - Yeah. 482 00:24:52,365 --> 00:24:53,945 Yeah, yeah, we've met. 483 00:24:53,950 --> 00:24:55,370 Right. 484 00:25:00,207 --> 00:25:01,707 Do you wanna get a drink? 485 00:25:03,001 --> 00:25:04,251 On the fire ants? 486 00:25:04,252 --> 00:25:06,922 On the goddamn fire ants. 487 00:25:06,922 --> 00:25:09,302 Oh, Jesus. 488 00:25:09,299 --> 00:25:11,429 I mean, why anybody would build their heaven on earth 489 00:25:11,426 --> 00:25:15,136 on top of a goddamn fire ant hill is just beyond me. 490 00:25:18,558 --> 00:25:19,848 So, come on, why'd--why did you-- 491 00:25:19,851 --> 00:25:21,441 why did you ask me here? 492 00:25:21,436 --> 00:25:23,726 Come on, I know it wasn't to talk about fire ants. 493 00:25:26,274 --> 00:25:28,494 Because my wife thinks I should talk to someone 494 00:25:28,485 --> 00:25:29,685 and, uh... 495 00:25:31,238 --> 00:25:32,608 there aren't a lot of people 496 00:25:32,614 --> 00:25:34,824 who know what it was like to be there. 497 00:25:34,824 --> 00:25:37,544 You have regrets? 498 00:25:37,536 --> 00:25:40,706 I just keep wondering if I did this differently 499 00:25:40,705 --> 00:25:42,535 or if I said that differently, 500 00:25:42,541 --> 00:25:45,211 then maybe things could've turned out different, you know. 501 00:25:45,210 --> 00:25:47,380 Yeah, I do that too. 502 00:25:49,256 --> 00:25:51,876 And then there are times that I wonder if you were just... 503 00:25:53,218 --> 00:25:55,468 just damned from the start. 504 00:25:55,470 --> 00:25:57,060 We weren't damned from the start. 505 00:25:57,055 --> 00:25:59,425 We damned ourselves through our own stupidity. 506 00:26:00,100 --> 00:26:02,020 Mmm. 507 00:26:02,018 --> 00:26:04,188 What do you know about Elohim City? 508 00:26:04,187 --> 00:26:07,147 I know they're a bunch of racist assholes, 509 00:26:07,148 --> 00:26:09,438 but other than that, you know, it's not my department, 510 00:26:09,442 --> 00:26:11,992 so I don't really pay attention to it. 511 00:26:11,987 --> 00:26:14,947 But this man from Elohim City, he was so angry. 512 00:26:14,948 --> 00:26:16,778 Uh-hmm. 513 00:26:16,783 --> 00:26:20,003 And I just keep thinking about the... 514 00:26:19,995 --> 00:26:22,705 people protesting at the barricades at Waco 515 00:26:22,706 --> 00:26:25,746 and I just feel this... 516 00:26:27,877 --> 00:26:31,417 this undercurrent of rage in America. 517 00:26:34,968 --> 00:26:37,928 And I think we helped create the monster 518 00:26:37,929 --> 00:26:39,849 we're trying to stop. 519 00:26:47,647 --> 00:26:50,277 Look, I know someone working the Elohim City case. 520 00:26:50,275 --> 00:26:52,645 And, uh, I might be able to set you up. 521 00:26:59,117 --> 00:27:01,447 This is blasphemy! 522 00:27:02,579 --> 00:27:04,579 I won't stand for it. 523 00:27:04,581 --> 00:27:06,081 I speak the truth. 524 00:27:06,082 --> 00:27:07,712 God handles the consequences. 525 00:27:07,709 --> 00:27:11,339 George, the Holy Spirit is feminine. 526 00:27:11,338 --> 00:27:13,668 We live in a male dominated society 527 00:27:13,673 --> 00:27:16,343 and it has resulted in a male dominated translation 528 00:27:16,343 --> 00:27:17,893 of the Bible. 529 00:27:17,886 --> 00:27:21,346 There is the Father, there is the Son, 530 00:27:21,348 --> 00:27:22,968 and the Holy Spirit is mother. 531 00:27:24,392 --> 00:27:25,852 Lois is right. 532 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:29,810 What did you just say? 533 00:27:31,274 --> 00:27:33,284 I said, "Lois is right." 534 00:27:33,276 --> 00:27:35,026 I never saw it before 535 00:27:35,028 --> 00:27:37,358 but she's mentioned all over the Old Testament. 536 00:27:37,364 --> 00:27:39,124 Proverbs 31:25, 537 00:27:39,115 --> 00:27:40,735 "She is clothed with strength and dignity, 538 00:27:40,742 --> 00:27:43,042 and she laughs without fear of the future." 539 00:27:43,036 --> 00:27:44,496 Proverbs 31:10, 540 00:27:44,496 --> 00:27:45,996 "She is far more precious than jewels." 541 00:27:45,997 --> 00:27:47,667 Psalms 46:5, 542 00:27:47,666 --> 00:27:50,166 "God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved." 543 00:27:50,168 --> 00:27:52,248 Quiet! - Proverbs 31:26, 544 00:27:52,253 --> 00:27:54,263 "She opens her mouth with wisdom, 545 00:27:54,255 --> 00:27:57,255 and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue." 546 00:27:57,258 --> 00:28:00,138 Matthew 11:19, Luke 3:22. 547 00:28:00,136 --> 00:28:01,806 There are dozens of examples in the Bible 548 00:28:01,805 --> 00:28:04,805 where the Holy Spirit is referred to as "she". 549 00:28:04,808 --> 00:28:07,058 I mean, George, are you saying the Bible is wrong? 550 00:28:07,060 --> 00:28:09,850 No. 551 00:28:09,854 --> 00:28:12,654 Of course, I'm not saying the Bible is wrong. 552 00:28:12,649 --> 00:28:15,779 tense music plays 553 00:28:35,171 --> 00:28:36,591 Probably won't get you laid, 554 00:28:36,589 --> 00:28:38,509 but it'll make you look more respectable. 555 00:28:42,053 --> 00:28:45,563 Have you decided on the plea deal? 556 00:28:45,557 --> 00:28:48,057 This is your last chance to take it. 557 00:28:48,059 --> 00:28:51,059 You should be more careful with George. 558 00:28:54,190 --> 00:28:55,780 He can be pretty mean. 559 00:28:57,777 --> 00:29:00,357 I'm not worried about old George Roden. 560 00:29:00,363 --> 00:29:02,073 He's not the first bully I dealt with. 561 00:29:02,073 --> 00:29:04,783 I'm sure he won't be the last. 562 00:29:04,784 --> 00:29:06,874 "So do not fear, for I am with you. 563 00:29:06,870 --> 00:29:09,210 Do not be dismayed, for I am your God. 564 00:29:09,205 --> 00:29:11,745 I will strengthen you and I will help you. 565 00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:14,960 I will uphold you with my righteous right hand." 566 00:29:14,961 --> 00:29:17,341 Isaiah said that. 567 00:29:17,338 --> 00:29:19,588 You can go hide all your life, 568 00:29:19,591 --> 00:29:21,261 but then the whole world 569 00:29:21,259 --> 00:29:24,009 winds up getting run by the George Rodens everywhere. 570 00:29:24,012 --> 00:29:25,682 That's no way to please the Lord. 571 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:26,970 No. 572 00:29:26,973 --> 00:29:28,853 You gotta show that faith. 573 00:29:28,850 --> 00:29:30,850 You got to show it by standing up, 574 00:29:30,852 --> 00:29:33,902 by doing what's right, 575 00:29:33,897 --> 00:29:35,357 regardless of what all them bullies 576 00:29:35,356 --> 00:29:36,896 tell you what they think you should do. 577 00:29:38,610 --> 00:29:40,650 It's just that George is sick in the head. 578 00:29:40,653 --> 00:29:42,283 He's--he's violent. 579 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,490 You don't understand what he's capable of. 580 00:29:56,878 --> 00:29:59,298 He doesn't know what I'm capable of either. 581 00:30:02,342 --> 00:30:04,342 I'm stronger than they realize. 582 00:30:06,137 --> 00:30:09,177 And so are you, Clive Doyle. 583 00:30:13,353 --> 00:30:15,153 I don't give in to bullies. 584 00:30:16,856 --> 00:30:20,776 It's our job to do what's right. 585 00:30:20,777 --> 00:30:23,197 And it's God's job to sort out the rest. 586 00:30:24,614 --> 00:30:28,124 Okay, then let's go give 'em hell. 587 00:30:54,936 --> 00:30:56,186 So, I've just had breakfast 588 00:30:56,187 --> 00:30:57,977 with defendant Schroeder, 589 00:30:57,981 --> 00:31:00,151 and she's going to be playing for the home team now, 590 00:31:00,149 --> 00:31:02,939 so get some statements over... [indistinct] 591 00:31:02,944 --> 00:31:05,864 But I just wanted to let you know for now. 592 00:31:05,864 --> 00:31:07,744 Good morning, by the way. 593 00:31:16,541 --> 00:31:18,501 Kathy Schroeder just flipped. 594 00:31:18,501 --> 00:31:19,791 She took the plea deal 595 00:31:19,794 --> 00:31:22,214 and she's turning state's witness. 596 00:31:22,213 --> 00:31:24,223 Kathy's going to testify against us? 597 00:31:24,215 --> 00:31:25,375 Yeah. 598 00:31:25,383 --> 00:31:28,473 dramatic music plays 599 00:31:34,684 --> 00:31:36,904 Now this is a simple story... 600 00:31:37,770 --> 00:31:39,610 with two clear sides. 601 00:31:40,815 --> 00:31:42,935 The government agents 602 00:31:42,942 --> 00:31:46,032 who went in to serve a legal search warrant... 603 00:31:47,447 --> 00:31:51,367 and the Branch Davidians, led by David Koresh, 604 00:31:51,367 --> 00:31:55,747 who adhered to a philosophy of death. 605 00:31:55,747 --> 00:31:58,247 A philosophy that led Koresh 606 00:31:58,249 --> 00:32:01,129 to train his people for battle 607 00:32:01,127 --> 00:32:02,797 and arm them for war, 608 00:32:02,795 --> 00:32:06,375 so that when those agents approached Mount Carmel 609 00:32:06,382 --> 00:32:09,722 to do their legal duty, 610 00:32:09,719 --> 00:32:13,769 the defendants laid in wait with guns in their hands. 611 00:32:13,765 --> 00:32:16,345 And when the agents got close enough, 612 00:32:16,351 --> 00:32:19,101 the Branch Davidians opened fire, 613 00:32:19,103 --> 00:32:22,443 murdering four federal officers 614 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,440 in cold blood. 615 00:32:24,442 --> 00:32:26,782 These men and women aren't killers. 616 00:32:28,321 --> 00:32:29,701 They're victims. 617 00:32:32,075 --> 00:32:36,535 First, they were victimized by David Koresh, 618 00:32:36,537 --> 00:32:40,787 a charismatic con man who brainwashed them 619 00:32:42,502 --> 00:32:45,802 into believing he was a messiah on earth. 620 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,390 And then they were victimized by the ATF, 621 00:32:57,517 --> 00:32:59,937 who led an unnecessary 622 00:32:59,936 --> 00:33:02,186 ill-advised assault on their home 623 00:33:02,188 --> 00:33:05,438 that left 76 of their friends and family, 624 00:33:05,441 --> 00:33:08,441 and even their children, dead. 625 00:33:08,444 --> 00:33:10,324 You're making us look like sheep, 626 00:33:10,321 --> 00:33:12,201 like we just blindly followed David 627 00:33:12,198 --> 00:33:13,868 with no minds of our own. 628 00:33:13,866 --> 00:33:15,736 This isn't the strategy we talked about before. 629 00:33:15,743 --> 00:33:17,333 We weren't brainwashed. 630 00:33:17,328 --> 00:33:19,618 We were defending something real. 631 00:33:19,622 --> 00:33:20,962 We all believed in 632 00:33:20,957 --> 00:33:22,077 because we saw it with our own eyes. 633 00:33:22,083 --> 00:33:25,343 My husband was shot dead 634 00:33:25,336 --> 00:33:26,836 and ripped to pieces 635 00:33:26,838 --> 00:33:29,668 by a government tank because of those beliefs. 636 00:33:29,674 --> 00:33:31,844 It's not just the four of us on trial here. 637 00:33:31,843 --> 00:33:36,013 When you say that what we believe in is stupid, 638 00:33:36,014 --> 00:33:38,104 you're saying that the people that we loved 639 00:33:38,099 --> 00:33:41,269 who burned in that building died for nothing. 640 00:33:41,269 --> 00:33:43,479 I don't give a rat's ass about your religion. 641 00:33:43,479 --> 00:33:46,019 And frankly, I don't even care if you look sane. 642 00:33:47,650 --> 00:33:50,700 All I care about is keeping you out of jail. 643 00:33:50,695 --> 00:33:52,195 That's my only focus here. 644 00:33:53,740 --> 00:33:56,030 And our defense tactics have to change, 645 00:33:56,034 --> 00:33:58,334 because Kathy Schroeder flipped on you. 646 00:34:00,038 --> 00:34:02,168 Before, you were all a united front, 647 00:34:02,165 --> 00:34:05,075 whatever the prosecutor said happened at Mount Carmel, 648 00:34:05,084 --> 00:34:07,094 was speculation. 649 00:34:07,086 --> 00:34:10,376 Now, one of your own is going to corroborate their claims. 650 00:34:10,381 --> 00:34:12,971 Kathy is gonna tell the jury that she passed out guns 651 00:34:12,967 --> 00:34:15,137 to each and every one of you during the siege. 652 00:34:15,136 --> 00:34:17,256 I wasn't even there. 653 00:34:17,263 --> 00:34:19,603 Well, then she's gonna say you bought the guns, 654 00:34:19,599 --> 00:34:21,559 make you into an arms dealer with a death wish. 655 00:34:21,559 --> 00:34:25,899 She's gonna turn the rest of you into an army out for blood. 656 00:34:25,897 --> 00:34:30,187 So if-if we can't say you never held a gun, 657 00:34:30,193 --> 00:34:32,153 we have to make the jury believe 658 00:34:32,153 --> 00:34:34,823 that you had no choice but to pick one up. 659 00:34:34,822 --> 00:34:38,082 You had no choice but to protect yourselves, 660 00:34:38,076 --> 00:34:41,326 because David Koresh conditioned you 661 00:34:41,329 --> 00:34:43,249 to do whatever he said, 662 00:34:43,247 --> 00:34:45,997 and the government charged in trying to kill your children. 663 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,590 But we didn't just do whatever he told us to do. 664 00:34:48,586 --> 00:34:50,336 We-we made choices. Yeah, look, 665 00:34:50,338 --> 00:34:52,668 you can be as pissed as you want at me in here, 666 00:34:52,673 --> 00:34:54,383 but when we're in that courtroom, 667 00:34:54,383 --> 00:34:58,553 you need to sit there, and you need to look sorry. 668 00:34:58,554 --> 00:35:00,644 You need to stop shaking your head 669 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,520 and-and stop glowering at the prosecutors. 670 00:35:03,518 --> 00:35:07,228 And you, you need to wear a dress. 671 00:35:07,230 --> 00:35:09,690 Yeah, something that makes you look softer 672 00:35:09,690 --> 00:35:11,320 and more vulnerable. 673 00:35:11,317 --> 00:35:12,737 I don't wear dresses. 674 00:35:12,735 --> 00:35:14,395 Well, then we'll get you one. 675 00:35:14,403 --> 00:35:16,283 But you need to start doing your part. 676 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,080 You need to start acting like the victim. 677 00:35:21,327 --> 00:35:23,787 You need to be honest about who you are. 678 00:35:24,705 --> 00:35:26,915 Proverbs speaks to this, 679 00:35:26,916 --> 00:35:28,836 calling for insight, 680 00:35:28,835 --> 00:35:32,505 not being afraid to ask for help, 681 00:35:32,505 --> 00:35:34,965 so that we can better understand ourselves. 682 00:35:37,468 --> 00:35:40,758 Vernon, what are you struggling with? 683 00:35:40,763 --> 00:35:42,223 How can we help you? 684 00:35:44,851 --> 00:35:49,151 I struggle with my own desires, 685 00:35:49,147 --> 00:35:51,567 which I feel so strong sometimes. 686 00:35:52,650 --> 00:35:54,400 What kind of desires? 687 00:35:56,112 --> 00:35:57,662 Pleasure of the flesh. 688 00:35:59,782 --> 00:36:01,912 Sometimes it's so strong, 689 00:36:01,909 --> 00:36:04,539 I have to relieve that pressure several times a day. 690 00:36:04,537 --> 00:36:05,577 Oh! 691 00:36:05,580 --> 00:36:08,420 It's okay. It's okay. 692 00:36:08,416 --> 00:36:10,626 You should feel comfortable to share. 693 00:36:10,626 --> 00:36:12,336 You shouldn't feel embarrassed. 694 00:36:12,336 --> 00:36:14,336 I never said I was embarrassed. 695 00:36:17,633 --> 00:36:19,803 Everyone has their own struggles. 696 00:36:20,928 --> 00:36:23,308 No temptation has overtaken you 697 00:36:23,306 --> 00:36:26,056 that is not common to man. 698 00:36:26,058 --> 00:36:27,938 God is faithful. 699 00:36:27,935 --> 00:36:30,435 He will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but-- 700 00:36:30,438 --> 00:36:31,898 But with that temptation, 701 00:36:31,898 --> 00:36:33,858 He will also provide the way of escape. 702 00:36:34,775 --> 00:36:37,315 Corinthians 10:13. 703 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,990 But when that temptation comes over me, 704 00:36:39,989 --> 00:36:43,489 I wonder if she's ever known loving hands on her body, 705 00:36:43,492 --> 00:36:46,122 if she's ever felt true pleasure 706 00:36:47,413 --> 00:36:50,213 and I'm overcome... 707 00:36:50,208 --> 00:36:54,088 with desire until I feel like I might go mad. 708 00:36:58,049 --> 00:36:59,839 You were, uh-- 709 00:36:59,842 --> 00:37:01,802 you were pretty honest at Bible study. 710 00:37:01,802 --> 00:37:04,102 I promised myself that when I came here, 711 00:37:04,096 --> 00:37:06,056 I wouldn't hold back any bit of myself... 712 00:37:07,475 --> 00:37:09,135 even those little ugly parts 713 00:37:09,143 --> 00:37:11,403 that I'd rather sometimes just sweep under the rug. 714 00:37:13,689 --> 00:37:16,779 I--I felt the same way when I came here. 715 00:37:18,236 --> 00:37:20,236 Like I wanted to give all of myself. 716 00:37:22,823 --> 00:37:24,413 Kindred spirits, I guess. 717 00:37:28,287 --> 00:37:30,207 Looks good over here. - Oh, do you need me? 718 00:37:31,540 --> 00:37:33,500 Not just yet. 719 00:37:33,501 --> 00:37:36,591 Actually, uh, I just came over to talk to Vernon. 720 00:37:37,922 --> 00:37:40,552 Uh, Vernon, 721 00:37:40,549 --> 00:37:44,259 I'm getting ready to go on my yearly trip to Israel. 722 00:37:44,262 --> 00:37:46,932 And I think you should join me... 723 00:37:46,931 --> 00:37:48,021 to study. 724 00:37:50,309 --> 00:37:53,439 dramatic music plays 725 00:37:57,066 --> 00:37:58,526 Nothing would give me more pleasure 726 00:37:58,526 --> 00:38:00,856 than learning right from your hands. 727 00:38:01,988 --> 00:38:03,028 Good. 728 00:38:04,448 --> 00:38:06,028 That's settled then. 729 00:38:06,033 --> 00:38:08,043 dramatic music plays 730 00:38:32,101 --> 00:38:34,981 Hi. Uh, excuse me. Are you Angie? 731 00:38:34,979 --> 00:38:36,269 Jacob sent me. 732 00:38:36,272 --> 00:38:37,612 Oh, yes. Yeah. 733 00:38:37,606 --> 00:38:38,686 Gary? - Right. 734 00:38:38,691 --> 00:38:39,691 Okay. Hi. - Yeah. 735 00:38:40,985 --> 00:38:42,855 So you drew the short straw, huh? 736 00:38:42,862 --> 00:38:45,112 Yeah. Our informant's name is Carol Howe. 737 00:38:45,114 --> 00:38:48,124 And, um, we didn't know how seriously to take her 738 00:38:48,117 --> 00:38:51,657 because she's not the most reliable-seeming informant. 739 00:38:51,662 --> 00:38:53,752 Uh-hmm. 740 00:38:53,748 --> 00:38:55,498 How'd she wind up here in the hospital? 741 00:38:55,499 --> 00:38:57,959 Did they find out she was informing and hurt her? 742 00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:59,630 Actually, kind of the opposite. 743 00:38:59,628 --> 00:39:01,088 No, Wild Bill actually beat her up pretty bad 744 00:39:01,088 --> 00:39:02,548 before the robbery... - Uh-hmm. 745 00:39:02,548 --> 00:39:04,508 ...and she got pissed, so she tipped us off 746 00:39:04,508 --> 00:39:07,008 as a way to get revenge. - Mmm. 747 00:39:07,011 --> 00:39:09,311 She's not a big fan of authority, 748 00:39:09,305 --> 00:39:12,805 to say the least, and, uh, she's a bit erratic. 749 00:39:12,808 --> 00:39:14,308 How so? 750 00:39:14,310 --> 00:39:17,360 God damn it! Come on! 751 00:39:18,898 --> 00:39:21,148 TV signal's shit in here, Angie. 752 00:39:23,986 --> 00:39:26,156 Hey there, Carol. I'm Gary. 753 00:39:27,782 --> 00:39:29,582 How's Wild Bill? 754 00:39:29,575 --> 00:39:31,325 Did he ask about me? 755 00:39:31,327 --> 00:39:33,037 He lawyered up pretty quickly, 756 00:39:33,037 --> 00:39:35,617 so I honestly don't know what he's asking about. 757 00:39:35,623 --> 00:39:37,633 Is he doing okay? Yeah, 758 00:39:37,625 --> 00:39:40,625 for someone who's gonna spend ten to twenty years in prison. 759 00:39:40,628 --> 00:39:43,008 I didn't mean to get him locked up that long. 760 00:39:43,005 --> 00:39:45,415 But that asshole shouldn't have laid his hands on me like that. 761 00:39:45,424 --> 00:39:47,224 You don't mess with a lady's face! 762 00:39:48,177 --> 00:39:49,297 That's right. 763 00:39:49,303 --> 00:39:50,303 That's right. 764 00:39:50,304 --> 00:39:51,394 Uh-hmm. 765 00:39:53,015 --> 00:39:55,475 So Wild Bill had made some allusions 766 00:39:55,476 --> 00:39:58,306 to some kind of payback against the government. 767 00:39:58,312 --> 00:40:01,232 Did he ever speak to you about anything like that? 768 00:40:01,232 --> 00:40:03,572 Gary? 769 00:40:03,567 --> 00:40:05,647 I ain't some kind of narc. 770 00:40:05,653 --> 00:40:08,413 I'm just a person who's sick of her boyfriend's shit. 771 00:40:08,406 --> 00:40:09,866 Yeah, fair enough. 772 00:40:09,865 --> 00:40:12,025 But, uh, I'd say there's a difference 773 00:40:12,034 --> 00:40:14,204 between being a narc and saving the lives 774 00:40:14,203 --> 00:40:16,123 of innocent people. 775 00:40:18,874 --> 00:40:20,584 Ain't nobody innocent. 776 00:40:22,545 --> 00:40:23,585 Really? 777 00:40:25,464 --> 00:40:29,764 Well, what about Elohim City? Did you hear anyone there... 778 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,260 speak about some sort of planned payback? 779 00:40:38,144 --> 00:40:39,904 I don't know about Elohim City. 780 00:40:39,895 --> 00:40:43,015 tense music plays 781 00:40:50,865 --> 00:40:52,445 Come on, Carol, this is important. 782 00:40:52,450 --> 00:40:54,450 I'm trying to keep people from getting hurt. 783 00:40:55,661 --> 00:40:58,751 tense music plays 784 00:41:01,834 --> 00:41:02,844 Dammit. 785 00:41:04,503 --> 00:41:05,963 I don't--the people you're asking 786 00:41:05,963 --> 00:41:07,513 about at Elohim City, 787 00:41:07,506 --> 00:41:09,466 they didn't really talk to me much, okay? 788 00:41:11,135 --> 00:41:13,465 And I never heard anything specific about anything, 789 00:41:13,471 --> 00:41:15,471 but I will tell you... 790 00:41:17,308 --> 00:41:18,888 they talk a lot about how the government 791 00:41:18,893 --> 00:41:20,443 has turned on them. 792 00:41:20,436 --> 00:41:23,556 dramatic music plays 793 00:41:23,564 --> 00:41:26,984 They talk about a holy war that's coming. 794 00:41:26,984 --> 00:41:29,824 And they're gonna be on the frontlines. 795 00:41:29,820 --> 00:41:32,490 But that's nothing on its own. 796 00:41:32,490 --> 00:41:35,200 You know, I know plenty of people who talk like that. 797 00:41:37,786 --> 00:41:41,666 But the thing about Elohim City is, 798 00:41:41,665 --> 00:41:44,535 it's full of people who tend to mean what they say. 799 00:41:45,711 --> 00:41:47,711 What does that mean exactly? 800 00:41:50,758 --> 00:41:52,638 It means if payback is coming, 801 00:41:52,635 --> 00:41:54,635 then I would guess it's gonna come from there. 802 00:42:00,559 --> 00:42:01,639 Yeah. 803 00:42:03,229 --> 00:42:06,319 suspenseful music plays 804 00:42:13,697 --> 00:42:16,737 rock music plays 805 00:42:26,669 --> 00:42:31,629 Nowhere to run to, uh, uh 806 00:42:31,632 --> 00:42:36,722 Nowhere to hide 60723

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