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00:00:10,093 --> 00:00:11,853
Once negotiations
broke down,
2
00:00:11,845 --> 00:00:13,805
we were left with little choice.
3
00:00:13,805 --> 00:00:16,015
The decision was made
for us to insert gas
4
00:00:16,016 --> 00:00:18,846
in an effort to coerce
those on the inside to come out.
5
00:00:20,895 --> 00:00:24,185
We followed protocol to a T.
6
00:00:24,190 --> 00:00:27,530
The Davidians were raining down
gunfire on my men.
7
00:00:27,527 --> 00:00:29,317
It looked like Christmas
out there with bullets hitting
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00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,700
our tanks, and my men
showed such restraint.
9
00:00:32,699 --> 00:00:36,829
Not a single shot
was returned from the FBI.
10
00:00:36,828 --> 00:00:39,658
Now with that being said,
are there tactics
11
00:00:39,664 --> 00:00:42,174
or decisions that you
would've made differently?
12
00:00:44,419 --> 00:00:45,749
Not a one.
13
00:00:47,088 --> 00:00:48,508
Not a one, huh?
14
00:00:48,506 --> 00:00:50,256
This is not an assault.
15
00:00:50,258 --> 00:00:52,548
The siege is over now.
16
00:00:55,513 --> 00:00:58,813
The gas you will be smelling
is a non-lethal tear gas.
17
00:00:58,808 --> 00:01:00,688
Exit the compound.
18
00:01:00,685 --> 00:01:02,185
...M60 vehicle,
19
00:01:02,187 --> 00:01:03,897
this combat
engineering vehicle,
20
00:01:03,897 --> 00:01:05,477
uh, pumped tear gas...
21
00:01:08,777 --> 00:01:11,527
Gary, the Davidians
had a death wish.
22
00:01:11,529 --> 00:01:13,569
That's not on the FBI.
23
00:01:13,573 --> 00:01:15,913
This thing was never gonna turn
out any different than it did.
24
00:01:15,909 --> 00:01:17,829
If anything,
we should've gone in sooner,
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00:01:17,827 --> 00:01:19,577
once we realized
that negotiations
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00:01:19,579 --> 00:01:20,869
weren't yielding any results.
27
00:01:20,872 --> 00:01:22,792
No results?
Yeah.
28
00:01:24,709 --> 00:01:29,089
You know I seem to recall
negotiating 35 people out
29
00:01:29,089 --> 00:01:31,969
of that building safely,
including 21 children.
30
00:01:31,966 --> 00:01:34,586
You're acting
like we rushed in.
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00:01:34,594 --> 00:01:37,974
We waited 51 days,
we gave you 51 days
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00:01:37,972 --> 00:01:40,432
to try to talk 'em out,
and you couldn't do it.
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00:01:44,145 --> 00:01:45,935
Why isn't anyone coming out?
They should be coming out.
34
00:01:47,357 --> 00:01:48,567
No!
35
00:01:49,943 --> 00:01:51,783
...inside this building.
36
00:01:51,778 --> 00:01:53,608
Seventeen of those
95 people, children.
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00:01:53,613 --> 00:01:54,613
Some 30...
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00:01:57,659 --> 00:01:59,949
We give up. We give up. Okay.
39
00:01:59,953 --> 00:02:01,003
Somebody help me!
40
00:02:00,995 --> 00:02:02,785
We got people down here!
41
00:02:02,789 --> 00:02:05,539
Wait! Wait!
42
00:02:05,542 --> 00:02:08,802
You failed, you didn't do
your job, so we had to do ours.
43
00:02:08,795 --> 00:02:11,125
Gentlemen,
why don't we all take a break?
44
00:02:11,131 --> 00:02:12,631
Hmm?
45
00:02:12,632 --> 00:02:15,802
Give everyone
a chance to cool down.
46
00:02:15,802 --> 00:02:18,762
Gary, you need to get
your shit together.
47
00:02:18,763 --> 00:02:20,313
We need to come clean, Alan.
48
00:02:20,306 --> 00:02:22,096
Oh.
- People are angry
49
00:02:22,100 --> 00:02:23,810
about what happened in Waco,
and they're scared
50
00:02:23,810 --> 00:02:27,150
because they think
that we did it on purpose.
51
00:02:28,189 --> 00:02:29,729
And we're too scared
52
00:02:29,732 --> 00:02:31,112
to tell them the truth,
that they're wrong.
53
00:02:31,109 --> 00:02:33,489
It wasn't part
of some master plan.
54
00:02:33,486 --> 00:02:36,026
It was just a bunch of bad
decisions and incompetence.
55
00:02:36,030 --> 00:02:37,990
Speak for yourself, Gary.
56
00:02:37,991 --> 00:02:39,951
Your men,
they may have been incompetent.
57
00:02:39,951 --> 00:02:42,291
Mine sure weren't.
58
00:02:42,287 --> 00:02:44,327
Oh, yeah.
59
00:02:44,330 --> 00:02:47,830
Well, the medal
is in the mail, Mitch.
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00:02:47,834 --> 00:02:49,674
Sunny day today. We can expect
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00:02:49,669 --> 00:02:51,799
much, much more of the same
over the next few days.
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00:02:51,796 --> 00:02:53,666
You might wanna do some
of those outdoor activities
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00:02:53,673 --> 00:02:55,343
you've been saving up for.
- Thanks, Sammy.
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00:02:55,341 --> 00:02:56,471
Coming up next,
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00:02:56,467 --> 00:02:57,967
the trial of the Waco Five
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00:02:57,969 --> 00:02:59,849
begins in San Antonio
this week
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00:02:59,846 --> 00:03:02,766
as a federal grand jury
indicted five of the surviving
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00:03:02,765 --> 00:03:06,095
Branch Davidians for unlawful
possession of firearms,
69
00:03:06,102 --> 00:03:09,152
and aiding in the murder
of federal officers.
70
00:03:09,147 --> 00:03:10,937
You ask me,
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00:03:10,940 --> 00:03:12,650
it's the FBI
that should be standing trial,
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00:03:12,650 --> 00:03:14,860
not those religious nuts.
73
00:03:14,861 --> 00:03:16,991
Our government
just went in there,
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00:03:16,988 --> 00:03:19,698
burned those people alive,
women and children.
75
00:03:19,699 --> 00:03:21,869
I think
every ATF and FBI agent
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00:03:21,868 --> 00:03:24,038
at Waco should go to jail.
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00:03:24,913 --> 00:03:27,963
dramatic music plays
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00:03:34,839 --> 00:03:37,129
theme music plays
79
00:04:39,570 --> 00:04:41,110
Noesner.
Yeah.
80
00:04:41,114 --> 00:04:42,624
It's been awhile.
81
00:04:42,615 --> 00:04:44,195
Oh yeah,
sure has, since what?
82
00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,080
The, uh, Atlanta Prison Riots?
83
00:04:46,077 --> 00:04:47,577
No, I feel like
I've seen you since.
84
00:04:47,578 --> 00:04:50,458
Oh, yeah? So, uh,
what's on the menu today?
85
00:04:50,456 --> 00:04:53,576
Well, we got four guys
wearing ex-presidents masks.
86
00:04:53,584 --> 00:04:56,924
Oh, like that movie
Point Break?
87
00:04:56,921 --> 00:04:58,671
Never said they were original.
88
00:04:58,673 --> 00:05:00,723
No, these guys have
been running around all over,
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00:05:00,717 --> 00:05:02,757
robbing banks in Oklahoma,
90
00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,970
Arkansas, 21 in all.
91
00:05:05,972 --> 00:05:09,642
They're efficient, you know,
smart, in and out, 90 seconds,
92
00:05:09,642 --> 00:05:12,352
so local authorities had
had a hard time figuring out
93
00:05:12,353 --> 00:05:15,443
where they are until today
when we got a last-minute tip
94
00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,610
that bank was gonna
be their next target.
95
00:05:18,609 --> 00:05:20,359
Now, we managed to grab
three of the guys,
96
00:05:20,361 --> 00:05:23,031
but one of them has barricaded
himself inside,
97
00:05:23,031 --> 00:05:24,621
and he has hostages.
98
00:05:24,615 --> 00:05:25,945
We feel all four
of these guys are members
99
00:05:25,950 --> 00:05:27,910
of the Aryan Republican Army.
100
00:05:27,910 --> 00:05:30,750
Oh, great. Nazis.
101
00:05:35,793 --> 00:05:37,633
What?
102
00:05:37,628 --> 00:05:38,918
Hi, my name's Gary.
103
00:05:38,921 --> 00:05:40,171
Who am I speaking with?
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00:05:40,173 --> 00:05:42,093
People call me "Wild Bill".
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00:05:43,885 --> 00:05:45,505
Well, Wild Bill,
I'm here to help you.
106
00:05:45,511 --> 00:05:47,181
Yeah?
Well, you can help me
107
00:05:47,180 --> 00:05:48,470
by getting me a helicopter,
108
00:05:48,473 --> 00:05:49,853
and I want it now
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00:05:49,849 --> 00:05:51,519
or I'm gonna start
killing people.
110
00:05:51,517 --> 00:05:53,517
And don't even think
about trying to come in here
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00:05:53,519 --> 00:05:55,019
because I got
a pipe bomb and I will blow
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00:05:55,021 --> 00:05:57,021
this place sky high
if you try it.
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00:05:57,023 --> 00:05:58,233
Let me look into
getting you that helicopter.
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00:05:58,232 --> 00:05:59,982
I'm serious!
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00:05:59,984 --> 00:06:01,154
I'm taking you
seriously, Wild Bill.
116
00:06:02,195 --> 00:06:04,735
Is Bomb Squad present?
- Uh-hmm.
117
00:06:04,739 --> 00:06:06,239
Good. Keep 'em ready.
118
00:06:08,159 --> 00:06:09,739
All right.
So, uh, they're gonna need
119
00:06:09,744 --> 00:06:11,374
a little time getting
you that helicopter.
120
00:06:11,371 --> 00:06:13,461
No. I want it now!
I do, too.
121
00:06:13,456 --> 00:06:15,496
But right now,
the only available helicopter
122
00:06:15,500 --> 00:06:17,170
is 50 miles away.
123
00:06:17,168 --> 00:06:18,668
In the meantime,
maybe you can tell me
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00:06:18,669 --> 00:06:20,379
how you got into this mess?
125
00:06:21,672 --> 00:06:23,882
Yeah. I got into this mess
126
00:06:23,883 --> 00:06:27,763
because somebody
has to fight back.
127
00:06:27,762 --> 00:06:31,062
You can only push people so far.
128
00:06:31,057 --> 00:06:32,677
That's very true.
129
00:07:33,035 --> 00:07:35,995
Who gave you permission
to use that thing in here?
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00:07:35,997 --> 00:07:39,627
I'm a big boy,
I gave myself permission.
131
00:07:39,625 --> 00:07:42,795
Machines are not allowed in here
without a court order.
132
00:07:42,795 --> 00:07:45,715
Okay. Here's my court order.
133
00:07:45,715 --> 00:07:47,125
Funny.
134
00:07:47,133 --> 00:07:49,553
I don't see my signature
on that.
135
00:07:52,513 --> 00:07:53,933
Judge Smith.
136
00:07:53,931 --> 00:07:58,141
I'm Dan Cogdell.
I represent Clive Doyle.
137
00:07:58,144 --> 00:08:00,864
You're not defending anybody
with that thing in here.
138
00:08:00,855 --> 00:08:03,765
I want it gone
by the time we begin.
139
00:08:03,774 --> 00:08:07,114
Uh, but, Your Honor,
I have all my notes in it.
140
00:08:07,111 --> 00:08:08,571
Then I suggest
you find a way
141
00:08:08,571 --> 00:08:10,571
to get your notes out of it.
142
00:08:14,327 --> 00:08:16,787
Oh, shit.
143
00:08:16,787 --> 00:08:19,867
dramatic music plays
144
00:08:23,836 --> 00:08:26,376
Baby killers!
145
00:08:26,380 --> 00:08:28,010
How come they hate us so much?
146
00:08:28,007 --> 00:08:29,337
They don't even know us.
147
00:08:32,637 --> 00:08:34,007
We'll be okay...
148
00:08:35,681 --> 00:08:37,181
somehow.
149
00:08:43,231 --> 00:08:44,861
You wanted to present a motion?
150
00:08:45,858 --> 00:08:47,858
I did, Your Honor.
151
00:08:47,860 --> 00:08:51,860
I would ask to predefine
inflammatory words.
152
00:08:51,864 --> 00:08:53,374
Inflammatory words?
153
00:08:53,366 --> 00:08:54,866
Yes, Your Honor, we would move
154
00:08:54,867 --> 00:08:56,697
to make certain words inadmissible.
155
00:08:56,702 --> 00:09:00,122
Which words would you recommend
we ban, Mr. Cogdell?
156
00:09:01,082 --> 00:09:03,962
Well, for example,
157
00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,960
we would motion to exclude
the word "compound"
158
00:09:06,963 --> 00:09:09,473
when referring to the home
at Mount Carmel,
159
00:09:09,465 --> 00:09:12,005
as the word "compound"
has militaristic connotations.
160
00:09:12,009 --> 00:09:14,469
At this point the word
"compound" has been used
161
00:09:14,470 --> 00:09:16,930
a million times
to refer to Mount Carmel.
162
00:09:16,931 --> 00:09:19,141
But to the defendants
this was not a compound,
163
00:09:19,141 --> 00:09:20,691
this was their home
164
00:09:20,685 --> 00:09:22,435
where they lived
and raised children,
165
00:09:22,436 --> 00:09:24,226
where they had a God-given
right to practice their--
166
00:09:24,230 --> 00:09:27,070
Save it
for the trial, Mr. Cogdell.
167
00:09:27,066 --> 00:09:28,986
Denied. Next.
168
00:09:28,985 --> 00:09:30,395
We would like
to exclude the term
169
00:09:30,403 --> 00:09:31,993
"Branch Davidians".
170
00:09:31,988 --> 00:09:33,528
They never call themselves
by that name.
171
00:09:33,531 --> 00:09:35,161
Objection.
172
00:09:35,157 --> 00:09:36,697
If we can't call them
Branch Davidians,
173
00:09:36,701 --> 00:09:38,491
then what are
we supposed to call them?
174
00:09:38,494 --> 00:09:40,004
Out to lunch?
Well, I think
175
00:09:39,996 --> 00:09:41,576
we can all agree that moniker
176
00:09:41,581 --> 00:09:43,081
has been thoroughly
tarnished by the media.
177
00:09:43,082 --> 00:09:44,502
The term "Branch Davidian"
178
00:09:44,500 --> 00:09:46,670
was tarnished
by their own actions.
179
00:09:46,669 --> 00:09:49,089
But, Your Honor,
they are not on trial
180
00:09:49,088 --> 00:09:50,718
for their religious beliefs.
181
00:09:50,715 --> 00:09:52,505
The defense used the term
"Branch Davidians"
182
00:09:52,508 --> 00:09:53,588
in their own filings.
183
00:09:53,593 --> 00:09:54,893
I have a motion here filed
184
00:09:54,885 --> 00:09:56,255
by Rocket Rosen of the defense.
185
00:09:56,262 --> 00:09:57,892
Who's Rocket Rosen?
186
00:09:57,888 --> 00:10:00,268
I am, Your Honor.
187
00:10:00,266 --> 00:10:01,266
Your name is Rocket?
188
00:10:01,267 --> 00:10:02,517
Yes, Your Honor.
189
00:10:02,518 --> 00:10:04,268
I was born on the 4th of July,
190
00:10:04,270 --> 00:10:06,110
so my daddy named me Rocket.
191
00:10:06,105 --> 00:10:10,685
Well, I was born on October 26,
so my daddy named me Walter.
192
00:10:12,111 --> 00:10:14,071
Did you file this motion?
- I did.
193
00:10:14,071 --> 00:10:16,371
But that was a mistake.
Motion denied.
194
00:10:16,365 --> 00:10:18,275
Next.
195
00:10:18,284 --> 00:10:20,294
The word "cult".
196
00:10:20,286 --> 00:10:23,116
Do they not yet realize
that this was a cult?
197
00:10:23,122 --> 00:10:24,582
This was no cult.
198
00:10:24,582 --> 00:10:25,962
It was a communal church
199
00:10:25,958 --> 00:10:27,788
and David Koresh
was their pastor.
200
00:10:27,793 --> 00:10:30,963
Once that pastor takes 20 wives
201
00:10:30,963 --> 00:10:33,013
and leads his church
to mass suicide,
202
00:10:33,007 --> 00:10:35,427
I would say
the word "cult" is applicable.
203
00:10:35,426 --> 00:10:39,176
But the defendants are not
on trial for mass suicide.
204
00:10:39,180 --> 00:10:41,470
Nobody thinks that any one
of them had anything to do
205
00:10:41,474 --> 00:10:44,444
with any fire
or had multiple wives
206
00:10:44,435 --> 00:10:46,645
or took child brides
or any of it.
207
00:10:46,646 --> 00:10:48,766
Using the word "cult"
is an attempt
208
00:10:48,773 --> 00:10:51,363
to try our clients
for another man's sins.
209
00:10:51,359 --> 00:10:52,529
Motion denied.
210
00:10:52,526 --> 00:10:53,686
My client Clive Doyle
211
00:10:53,694 --> 00:10:54,954
was there 15 years
212
00:10:54,945 --> 00:10:56,855
before David Koresh's arrival.
213
00:10:59,075 --> 00:11:01,825
Rose and thorn, Karen?
214
00:11:03,329 --> 00:11:06,619
My thorn is I didn't sleep
215
00:11:06,624 --> 00:11:10,594
very well 'cause Shari
kept stealing all the covers.
216
00:11:10,586 --> 00:11:14,336
And rose, I got extra oatmeal
at breakfast.
217
00:11:14,340 --> 00:11:17,680
Well, how about you, Shari?
218
00:11:17,677 --> 00:11:20,137
Rose, playing.
219
00:11:20,137 --> 00:11:22,007
Thorn, Karen.
220
00:11:24,016 --> 00:11:25,686
How about you, Dad?
221
00:11:25,685 --> 00:11:30,265
Thorn is my back's
been hurting me again.
222
00:11:30,272 --> 00:11:35,242
My rose is that I get to spend
this moment right now
223
00:11:35,236 --> 00:11:39,316
with my two favorite people
in the entire world, you two.
224
00:11:39,323 --> 00:11:41,493
I have
never wavered on this, George,
225
00:11:41,492 --> 00:11:44,872
you don't wear a sidearm
for Sabbath service.
226
00:11:44,870 --> 00:11:47,210
Why do you think
you're so special, mama?
227
00:11:47,206 --> 00:11:48,706
That you get
to make all the rules?
228
00:11:48,708 --> 00:11:51,088
Because I am your prophet.
229
00:12:15,776 --> 00:12:17,146
Don't mind him.
230
00:12:18,362 --> 00:12:21,032
My name is Vernon Howell.
231
00:12:21,031 --> 00:12:24,741
I'm looking
for the Prophet Lois Roden.
232
00:12:26,036 --> 00:12:27,156
Come in.
233
00:12:28,956 --> 00:12:30,916
Service is starting.
234
00:12:35,129 --> 00:12:36,259
That's what you don't get.
235
00:12:36,255 --> 00:12:37,915
It's about being a patriot
236
00:12:37,923 --> 00:12:40,223
'cause this country
has lost its way.
237
00:12:40,217 --> 00:12:42,597
It's turned
against the people
238
00:12:42,595 --> 00:12:43,925
who made it great
in the first place.
239
00:12:43,929 --> 00:12:45,219
So what are we supposed to do?
240
00:12:45,222 --> 00:12:46,272
Just wait for things to change
241
00:12:46,265 --> 00:12:47,725
or do we fight back?
242
00:12:47,725 --> 00:12:49,635
And in your eyes,
robbing banks
243
00:12:49,643 --> 00:12:51,603
is a way of fighting back?
244
00:12:51,604 --> 00:12:54,154
No, robbing banks
was never the point.
245
00:12:54,148 --> 00:12:55,648
Then what is?
246
00:12:57,651 --> 00:12:59,651
Yeah. You'll see.
247
00:13:02,156 --> 00:13:03,566
Yeah, payback's coming.
248
00:13:03,574 --> 00:13:05,284
It's coming sooner
than you think.
249
00:13:08,579 --> 00:13:12,249
Look, we've been talking
now for 20 hours.
250
00:13:13,959 --> 00:13:15,629
And it seems to me
that you and I
251
00:13:15,628 --> 00:13:16,708
aren't gonna agree on much.
252
00:13:16,712 --> 00:13:19,762
So maybe we could focus
253
00:13:19,757 --> 00:13:21,047
on what we do agree on.
254
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:24,180
Yeah, like what?
255
00:13:25,638 --> 00:13:27,468
Like you
and your friends have robbed
256
00:13:27,473 --> 00:13:29,063
21 banks successfully,
257
00:13:29,058 --> 00:13:30,808
nobody hurt,
perfectly executed.
258
00:13:30,810 --> 00:13:32,810
No, I'm not admitting
the other banks.
259
00:13:32,812 --> 00:13:34,942
I'm not asking you
to do that.
260
00:13:34,939 --> 00:13:39,319
But you see to the world
right now, you're a legend.
261
00:13:39,318 --> 00:13:42,238
You're Robin Hood,
22 banks and you haven't
262
00:13:42,238 --> 00:13:44,908
hurt a single person.
263
00:13:44,907 --> 00:13:47,277
Now you'll do
a few years' time for sure.
264
00:13:47,284 --> 00:13:49,334
But then, who knows?
265
00:13:49,328 --> 00:13:51,828
Maybe you'd sell
your movie rights
266
00:13:51,831 --> 00:13:54,541
to Hollywood and go sip
margaritas on a beach.
267
00:13:56,377 --> 00:14:00,707
But the second
you take someone's life,
268
00:14:00,714 --> 00:14:03,344
you are just another murderer.
269
00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:06,890
And nobody will care
270
00:14:06,887 --> 00:14:09,677
what you have to say ever again.
271
00:14:09,682 --> 00:14:13,732
You come out of that bank
and you're gonna have options.
272
00:14:13,727 --> 00:14:17,267
You come out of that bank,
you're gonna have a future.
273
00:14:17,273 --> 00:14:20,943
You want people to hear
what you have to say,
274
00:14:20,943 --> 00:14:22,953
then come out of the bank.
275
00:14:30,703 --> 00:14:35,123
Don't shoot!
Unarmed! Unarmed!
276
00:14:35,124 --> 00:14:37,384
Clear!
Get down on your knees.
277
00:14:38,836 --> 00:14:40,546
Hands on your head.
278
00:14:41,755 --> 00:14:43,295
Interlace your fingers.
279
00:14:48,053 --> 00:14:50,393
Our best strategy
is going to be to convince
280
00:14:50,389 --> 00:14:53,519
the jury that David Koresh
was misunderstood.
281
00:14:53,517 --> 00:14:55,387
We need to humanize him,
make him seem less
282
00:14:55,394 --> 00:14:57,614
like the boogeyman,
more relatable.
283
00:14:57,605 --> 00:14:59,105
David Koresh was
284
00:14:59,106 --> 00:15:01,606
an opportunistic
narcissistic piece of shit.
285
00:15:01,609 --> 00:15:04,699
We're not in the business
of defending Koresh.
286
00:15:04,695 --> 00:15:06,405
He's dead.
-
287
00:15:06,405 --> 00:15:07,815
Well, if that's how you feel,
288
00:15:07,823 --> 00:15:09,163
then why'd you even
take this case?
289
00:15:09,158 --> 00:15:11,368
The issue can't be whether
or not
290
00:15:11,368 --> 00:15:12,828
Koresh was the messiah.
291
00:15:12,828 --> 00:15:15,458
If that's our case,
then they win,
292
00:15:15,456 --> 00:15:17,206
because guess what?
293
00:15:17,207 --> 00:15:18,627
He wasn't.
294
00:15:18,626 --> 00:15:20,916
Our case has to be
about the fact
295
00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:22,710
the United States government
296
00:15:22,713 --> 00:15:25,263
raided these people's home
without cause.
297
00:15:25,257 --> 00:15:28,007
And it was their overreach,
their hubris
298
00:15:28,010 --> 00:15:31,180
that led to the deaths of 76
people including 17 children.
299
00:15:31,180 --> 00:15:33,270
And in America,
you don't get to do that
300
00:15:33,265 --> 00:15:35,555
because, if they can do
what they did to our clients
301
00:15:35,559 --> 00:15:37,769
and get away with it,
it'll give everyone
302
00:15:37,770 --> 00:15:40,520
with a badge and a gun
from a Wackenhut security guard
303
00:15:40,522 --> 00:15:42,612
to Janet Reno the authority
304
00:15:42,608 --> 00:15:44,278
to do whatever they want,
305
00:15:44,276 --> 00:15:45,436
to whomever they want,
306
00:15:45,444 --> 00:15:47,114
however they want.
307
00:15:48,489 --> 00:15:50,619
And that's the argument
we need to make.
308
00:15:50,616 --> 00:15:52,446
Amen.
Yeah.
309
00:15:52,451 --> 00:15:56,371
What in the hell
is that asshole doing here?
310
00:15:56,372 --> 00:15:58,042
You get lost, Johnston,
or are you,
311
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,290
uh, here to beg for mercy?
312
00:16:00,292 --> 00:16:04,512
Neither.
I've got an offer for you.
313
00:16:04,505 --> 00:16:07,755
They're offering 15 years
with the possibility of parole.
314
00:16:07,758 --> 00:16:10,798
What would I have to do
if I did take the deal?
315
00:16:10,803 --> 00:16:13,313
You'd have to plead guilty
and then testify
316
00:16:13,305 --> 00:16:15,925
against the other members
of your group.
317
00:16:15,933 --> 00:16:18,273
No, wait, wait, wait.
318
00:16:18,268 --> 00:16:19,848
Before you close
your mind to it,
319
00:16:19,853 --> 00:16:21,613
you should know
that they've offered
320
00:16:21,605 --> 00:16:23,475
the same deal
to all five of you.
321
00:16:23,482 --> 00:16:25,782
If you don't take it,
you face the possibility
322
00:16:25,776 --> 00:16:27,486
of life without parole.
323
00:16:28,737 --> 00:16:31,317
But I didn't do anything.
324
00:16:31,323 --> 00:16:34,413
Clive, unfortunately,
that doesn't matter.
325
00:16:34,410 --> 00:16:36,330
It's a conspiracy charge.
326
00:16:36,328 --> 00:16:39,458
If any single one
of you is found guilty,
327
00:16:39,456 --> 00:16:41,786
then you're all guilty.
328
00:16:41,792 --> 00:16:45,002
If any one of you pulled
the trigger of a gun,
329
00:16:45,004 --> 00:16:47,174
then you all pulled
the trigger.
330
00:16:47,172 --> 00:16:49,342
You're gonna rise
and fall together.
331
00:16:49,341 --> 00:16:51,841
You got until opening
statements to decide
332
00:16:51,844 --> 00:16:54,514
and then the deal's off
the table.
333
00:16:56,015 --> 00:16:58,425
Here is
what is going to happen.
334
00:16:58,434 --> 00:17:00,854
Instead of arguing
about this juror
335
00:17:00,853 --> 00:17:02,313
or that juror,
336
00:17:02,312 --> 00:17:05,112
going back and forth,
you, then you.
337
00:17:05,107 --> 00:17:08,857
I am gonna save us
a whole lot of time
338
00:17:08,861 --> 00:17:10,531
and the American taxpayer
339
00:17:10,529 --> 00:17:12,569
a lot of money
and help pick the jury myself.
340
00:17:12,573 --> 00:17:13,823
So you can all relax.
341
00:17:13,824 --> 00:17:15,704
Objection, Your Honor.
342
00:17:15,701 --> 00:17:17,871
You can't object to me.
I'm the judge.
343
00:17:17,870 --> 00:17:19,830
Well, then, uh, exception.
344
00:17:21,206 --> 00:17:22,326
Noted.
345
00:17:26,086 --> 00:17:27,376
Can he do that?
346
00:17:32,009 --> 00:17:34,599
How do you feel
about people who join a cult?
347
00:17:34,595 --> 00:17:35,845
Objection.
348
00:17:35,846 --> 00:17:39,056
Exception, Your Hon-- shit.
349
00:17:39,058 --> 00:17:40,178
How do you feel
350
00:17:40,184 --> 00:17:42,024
about people who join
351
00:17:42,019 --> 00:17:44,479
extremist religious groups?
352
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,230
I do have negative feelings
towards people
353
00:17:47,232 --> 00:17:51,072
who abuse children
if that's what you're asking.
354
00:17:51,070 --> 00:17:52,860
Or people who give
their sense of choice
355
00:17:52,863 --> 00:17:55,413
over to false prophets.
356
00:17:55,407 --> 00:17:57,237
You can stay.
357
00:17:57,242 --> 00:17:59,752
So, Clive,
how'd you come to be here?
358
00:17:59,745 --> 00:18:02,285
My mom and I heard
some of Lois's teachings,
359
00:18:02,289 --> 00:18:04,669
so we followed that message
all the way here.
360
00:18:05,584 --> 00:18:07,504
That was 15 years ago.
361
00:18:07,503 --> 00:18:08,843
All the way from Australia?
362
00:18:08,837 --> 00:18:11,087
I don't think I'll ever leave.
363
00:18:11,090 --> 00:18:12,670
Wow.
364
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,510
How about you?
What brought you here?
365
00:18:17,513 --> 00:18:18,893
Me?
366
00:18:20,307 --> 00:18:23,137
Well, I learned to read
by reading the Bible.
367
00:18:23,143 --> 00:18:25,733
I can't see so well,
you know, all the letters
368
00:18:25,729 --> 00:18:28,899
get mixed up and stuff,
so I have trouble reading books,
369
00:18:28,899 --> 00:18:31,029
but the Bible.
370
00:18:31,026 --> 00:18:33,486
Man, I could just sit
and read it like magic.
371
00:18:35,531 --> 00:18:36,871
And you know what struck me?
372
00:18:36,865 --> 00:18:39,405
Huh.
373
00:18:39,409 --> 00:18:42,249
I mean, for years,
I asked anyone who might know,
374
00:18:42,246 --> 00:18:44,616
"Hey, what happened
to all those old prophets?
375
00:18:44,623 --> 00:18:46,383
Are there any still living now?
376
00:18:46,375 --> 00:18:49,125
Or did they all get stuck here
in this old book?"
377
00:18:49,128 --> 00:18:50,798
And they'd say, "Quiet, boy.
378
00:18:50,796 --> 00:18:52,086
Sit down and listen
to what we're teachin'."
379
00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:55,799
But nobody could answer
that one question.
380
00:18:55,801 --> 00:18:58,471
So I turned
to God and I asked Him,
381
00:18:58,470 --> 00:19:02,890
"Please, if there's a prophet,
please lead me there."
382
00:19:04,476 --> 00:19:06,596
Then three days later,
out of the blue,
383
00:19:06,603 --> 00:19:08,403
my grandma tells me about
some prophet out here
384
00:19:08,397 --> 00:19:10,397
on the plains of Waco.
385
00:19:10,399 --> 00:19:12,399
Her name was Lois Roden,
386
00:19:12,401 --> 00:19:14,611
and she lived at a place
called Mount Carmel.
387
00:19:17,030 --> 00:19:19,410
Went to my room,
packed my stuff,
388
00:19:19,408 --> 00:19:21,118
got here as fast as I could.
389
00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:26,500
That's... like a miracle.
390
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,170
Yeah, that's what I thought too.
391
00:19:39,303 --> 00:19:41,683
Did they offer you
all the plea deal too?
392
00:19:47,853 --> 00:19:49,313
My lawyer told me
the worst thing
393
00:19:49,313 --> 00:19:50,563
that could happen
is someone else
394
00:19:50,564 --> 00:19:52,194
taking the deal if I don't.
395
00:19:54,318 --> 00:19:58,698
Man, the government wants
their pound of flesh
396
00:19:58,697 --> 00:20:00,277
and they're gonna get it
397
00:20:00,282 --> 00:20:01,952
if we don't stay strong
and stick together.
398
00:20:01,950 --> 00:20:03,870
Look around this room.
399
00:20:03,869 --> 00:20:06,709
Do you expect anyone
is actually going to think
400
00:20:06,705 --> 00:20:09,365
Clive shot federal agents
in cold blood?
401
00:20:10,417 --> 00:20:12,207
Or Ruth?
402
00:20:12,211 --> 00:20:14,631
It doesn't matter
what they think.
403
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:17,130
If they think any of us did it,
then we all did it.
404
00:20:17,132 --> 00:20:18,722
I wasn't even there.
405
00:20:18,717 --> 00:20:22,467
Do you think
any of this is about truth?
406
00:20:22,471 --> 00:20:24,721
Or fairness? Or justice?
Because it's not.
407
00:20:24,723 --> 00:20:26,643
It is about anger.
408
00:20:26,642 --> 00:20:30,562
They are gonna roll over us
no matter what we do.
409
00:20:30,562 --> 00:20:31,772
So we may as well
get through this
410
00:20:31,772 --> 00:20:34,272
with our dignity intact.
411
00:20:36,109 --> 00:20:38,739
The government can make up
whatever story they want
412
00:20:38,737 --> 00:20:41,197
about what happened
inside Mount Carmel,
413
00:20:41,198 --> 00:20:43,528
but no one knows what you did
414
00:20:43,533 --> 00:20:45,913
or didn't do
behind closed doors,
415
00:20:45,911 --> 00:20:49,041
nobody but the people
in this room.
416
00:20:49,039 --> 00:20:51,209
So if we stay united
417
00:20:51,208 --> 00:20:53,708
and refute their story, then...
418
00:20:56,421 --> 00:20:58,011
maybe we have a chance.
419
00:21:21,655 --> 00:21:23,445
Oh, shit.
420
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,119
Hey, Dusty, mind if I pick
your brain about something?
421
00:21:30,122 --> 00:21:32,712
I was looking
at Wild Bill's file.
422
00:21:32,708 --> 00:21:34,628
Why?
We already put him in jail.
423
00:21:34,626 --> 00:21:38,296
Well, Wild Bill and his friends
successfully robbed 21 banks.
424
00:21:38,297 --> 00:21:39,667
But in their files,
425
00:21:39,673 --> 00:21:40,803
it doesn't seem
as though they made
426
00:21:40,799 --> 00:21:43,469
any conspicuous purchases.
427
00:21:43,468 --> 00:21:45,968
That, combined with
his comment about "payback,"
428
00:21:45,971 --> 00:21:47,641
it was bugging me
429
00:21:47,639 --> 00:21:49,099
and I wanted to make sure
I wasn't missing anything.
430
00:21:49,099 --> 00:21:52,939
So I took a closer look
and I found this.
431
00:21:52,936 --> 00:21:54,396
What am I looking at?
432
00:21:55,355 --> 00:21:57,015
You see that flag?
433
00:21:57,024 --> 00:22:00,494
That's the same flag
they flew over at Mount Carmel.
434
00:22:00,485 --> 00:22:02,855
David Koresh
designed it himself.
435
00:22:02,863 --> 00:22:04,453
Huh.
436
00:22:04,448 --> 00:22:08,368
Did Wild Bill have
some connection to Waco?
437
00:22:08,368 --> 00:22:10,158
I doubt it.
438
00:22:10,162 --> 00:22:13,172
The flag is probably used
more as a recruitment tool
439
00:22:13,165 --> 00:22:15,915
to fire people up.
440
00:22:15,917 --> 00:22:18,497
Any sense
where that photo was taken?
441
00:22:18,503 --> 00:22:20,013
It doesn't say in the file.
442
00:22:21,715 --> 00:22:23,425
It looks like Elohim City to me.
443
00:22:23,425 --> 00:22:25,085
It's a town of sorts.
444
00:22:25,093 --> 00:22:28,643
Started in the early '70s
by a group of former Mennonites,
445
00:22:28,638 --> 00:22:30,848
which gave birth to
the Christian Identity movement,
446
00:22:30,849 --> 00:22:32,309
which is, basically--
447
00:22:32,309 --> 00:22:33,439
Christianity for White Supremacists.
448
00:22:33,435 --> 00:22:35,265
Uh-hmm.
449
00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:37,270
We'd need a serious warrant
and a small army to go in there.
450
00:22:37,272 --> 00:22:39,692
Something which, after Waco,
I don't think any of our bosses
451
00:22:39,691 --> 00:22:41,531
would be willing
to take a chance on.
452
00:22:46,073 --> 00:22:48,663
Clive Doyle,
you have a visitor.
453
00:22:50,702 --> 00:22:52,122
Let's go.
454
00:22:56,917 --> 00:22:58,377
Some of the other families
455
00:22:58,377 --> 00:22:59,797
mentioned something
about a plea deal?
456
00:23:04,424 --> 00:23:07,264
It's true. They've offered one.
457
00:23:07,260 --> 00:23:10,510
I'm not sure
I'm gonna take the deal, Karen.
458
00:23:11,390 --> 00:23:12,430
Why not?
459
00:23:14,976 --> 00:23:18,016
Because they want us to say
it was our fault.
460
00:23:18,021 --> 00:23:19,191
And it wasn't.
461
00:23:19,189 --> 00:23:21,149
Just get out, Dad.
462
00:23:22,776 --> 00:23:26,816
Shari's gone, everything's gone.
463
00:23:26,822 --> 00:23:29,242
How much more do you feel
like you have to suffer?
464
00:23:29,241 --> 00:23:31,831
I loved David too,
but it's over!
465
00:23:31,827 --> 00:23:32,907
I need my father back.
466
00:23:32,911 --> 00:23:34,701
I know, but...
467
00:23:34,704 --> 00:23:37,084
You've already lost, Dad.
468
00:23:38,708 --> 00:23:40,668
There's no more point
in fighting it.
469
00:23:43,463 --> 00:23:44,763
Anne...
470
00:23:46,633 --> 00:23:48,513
she needs her grandfather.
471
00:23:50,846 --> 00:23:52,096
What?
472
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,600
Really?
473
00:24:02,691 --> 00:24:04,481
There's your rose.
474
00:24:06,319 --> 00:24:07,609
Is it?
475
00:24:07,612 --> 00:24:11,952
dramatic music plays
476
00:24:32,846 --> 00:24:34,756
It's 15 years of loyalty,
477
00:24:34,764 --> 00:24:37,814
15 years of putting my life
on the line and then for what?
478
00:24:37,809 --> 00:24:39,229
For what?
479
00:24:39,227 --> 00:24:40,477
Hey, hey,
get your hands off me, man.
480
00:24:40,479 --> 00:24:41,809
Get off me.
481
00:24:49,196 --> 00:24:51,156
Weren't you--
- Yeah.
482
00:24:52,365 --> 00:24:53,945
Yeah, yeah, we've met.
483
00:24:53,950 --> 00:24:55,370
Right.
484
00:25:00,207 --> 00:25:01,707
Do you wanna get a drink?
485
00:25:03,001 --> 00:25:04,251
On the fire ants?
486
00:25:04,252 --> 00:25:06,922
On the goddamn fire ants.
487
00:25:06,922 --> 00:25:09,302
Oh, Jesus.
488
00:25:09,299 --> 00:25:11,429
I mean, why anybody would build
their heaven on earth
489
00:25:11,426 --> 00:25:15,136
on top of a goddamn fire ant
hill is just beyond me.
490
00:25:18,558 --> 00:25:19,848
So, come on,
why'd--why did you--
491
00:25:19,851 --> 00:25:21,441
why did you ask me here?
492
00:25:21,436 --> 00:25:23,726
Come on, I know it wasn't
to talk about fire ants.
493
00:25:26,274 --> 00:25:28,494
Because my wife thinks
I should talk to someone
494
00:25:28,485 --> 00:25:29,685
and, uh...
495
00:25:31,238 --> 00:25:32,608
there aren't a lot of people
496
00:25:32,614 --> 00:25:34,824
who know what it was like
to be there.
497
00:25:34,824 --> 00:25:37,544
You have regrets?
498
00:25:37,536 --> 00:25:40,706
I just keep wondering
if I did this differently
499
00:25:40,705 --> 00:25:42,535
or if I said that differently,
500
00:25:42,541 --> 00:25:45,211
then maybe things could've
turned out different, you know.
501
00:25:45,210 --> 00:25:47,380
Yeah, I do that too.
502
00:25:49,256 --> 00:25:51,876
And then there are times that
I wonder if you were just...
503
00:25:53,218 --> 00:25:55,468
just damned from the start.
504
00:25:55,470 --> 00:25:57,060
We weren't damned
from the start.
505
00:25:57,055 --> 00:25:59,425
We damned ourselves
through our own stupidity.
506
00:26:00,100 --> 00:26:02,020
Mmm.
507
00:26:02,018 --> 00:26:04,188
What do you know
about Elohim City?
508
00:26:04,187 --> 00:26:07,147
I know they're a bunch
of racist assholes,
509
00:26:07,148 --> 00:26:09,438
but other than that, you know,
it's not my department,
510
00:26:09,442 --> 00:26:11,992
so I don't really
pay attention to it.
511
00:26:11,987 --> 00:26:14,947
But this man from Elohim City,
he was so angry.
512
00:26:14,948 --> 00:26:16,778
Uh-hmm.
513
00:26:16,783 --> 00:26:20,003
And I just keep thinking
about the...
514
00:26:19,995 --> 00:26:22,705
people protesting
at the barricades at Waco
515
00:26:22,706 --> 00:26:25,746
and I just feel this...
516
00:26:27,877 --> 00:26:31,417
this undercurrent of rage
in America.
517
00:26:34,968 --> 00:26:37,928
And I think we helped
create the monster
518
00:26:37,929 --> 00:26:39,849
we're trying to stop.
519
00:26:47,647 --> 00:26:50,277
Look, I know someone
working the Elohim City case.
520
00:26:50,275 --> 00:26:52,645
And, uh, I might be able
to set you up.
521
00:26:59,117 --> 00:27:01,447
This is blasphemy!
522
00:27:02,579 --> 00:27:04,579
I won't stand for it.
523
00:27:04,581 --> 00:27:06,081
I speak the truth.
524
00:27:06,082 --> 00:27:07,712
God handles the consequences.
525
00:27:07,709 --> 00:27:11,339
George,
the Holy Spirit is feminine.
526
00:27:11,338 --> 00:27:13,668
We live
in a male dominated society
527
00:27:13,673 --> 00:27:16,343
and it has resulted
in a male dominated translation
528
00:27:16,343 --> 00:27:17,893
of the Bible.
529
00:27:17,886 --> 00:27:21,346
There is the Father,
there is the Son,
530
00:27:21,348 --> 00:27:22,968
and the Holy Spirit is mother.
531
00:27:24,392 --> 00:27:25,852
Lois is right.
532
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:29,810
What did you just say?
533
00:27:31,274 --> 00:27:33,284
I said, "Lois is right."
534
00:27:33,276 --> 00:27:35,026
I never saw it before
535
00:27:35,028 --> 00:27:37,358
but she's mentioned
all over the Old Testament.
536
00:27:37,364 --> 00:27:39,124
Proverbs 31:25,
537
00:27:39,115 --> 00:27:40,735
"She is clothed
with strength and dignity,
538
00:27:40,742 --> 00:27:43,042
and she laughs
without fear of the future."
539
00:27:43,036 --> 00:27:44,496
Proverbs 31:10,
540
00:27:44,496 --> 00:27:45,996
"She is far more precious
than jewels."
541
00:27:45,997 --> 00:27:47,667
Psalms 46:5,
542
00:27:47,666 --> 00:27:50,166
"God is in the midst of her;
she shall not be moved."
543
00:27:50,168 --> 00:27:52,248
Quiet!
- Proverbs 31:26,
544
00:27:52,253 --> 00:27:54,263
"She opens her mouth
with wisdom,
545
00:27:54,255 --> 00:27:57,255
and the teaching of kindness
is on her tongue."
546
00:27:57,258 --> 00:28:00,138
Matthew 11:19, Luke 3:22.
547
00:28:00,136 --> 00:28:01,806
There are dozens of examples
in the Bible
548
00:28:01,805 --> 00:28:04,805
where the Holy Spirit
is referred to as "she".
549
00:28:04,808 --> 00:28:07,058
I mean, George, are you saying
the Bible is wrong?
550
00:28:07,060 --> 00:28:09,850
No.
551
00:28:09,854 --> 00:28:12,654
Of course, I'm not saying
the Bible is wrong.
552
00:28:12,649 --> 00:28:15,779
tense music plays
553
00:28:35,171 --> 00:28:36,591
Probably won't get you laid,
554
00:28:36,589 --> 00:28:38,509
but it'll make you look
more respectable.
555
00:28:42,053 --> 00:28:45,563
Have you decided
on the plea deal?
556
00:28:45,557 --> 00:28:48,057
This is your last chance
to take it.
557
00:28:48,059 --> 00:28:51,059
You should be
more careful with George.
558
00:28:54,190 --> 00:28:55,780
He can be pretty mean.
559
00:28:57,777 --> 00:29:00,357
I'm not worried
about old George Roden.
560
00:29:00,363 --> 00:29:02,073
He's not the first bully
I dealt with.
561
00:29:02,073 --> 00:29:04,783
I'm sure he won't be the last.
562
00:29:04,784 --> 00:29:06,874
"So do not fear,
for I am with you.
563
00:29:06,870 --> 00:29:09,210
Do not be dismayed,
for I am your God.
564
00:29:09,205 --> 00:29:11,745
I will strengthen you
and I will help you.
565
00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:14,960
I will uphold you
with my righteous right hand."
566
00:29:14,961 --> 00:29:17,341
Isaiah said that.
567
00:29:17,338 --> 00:29:19,588
You can go hide all your life,
568
00:29:19,591 --> 00:29:21,261
but then the whole world
569
00:29:21,259 --> 00:29:24,009
winds up getting run
by the George Rodens everywhere.
570
00:29:24,012 --> 00:29:25,682
That's no way
to please the Lord.
571
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:26,970
No.
572
00:29:26,973 --> 00:29:28,853
You gotta show that faith.
573
00:29:28,850 --> 00:29:30,850
You got to show it
by standing up,
574
00:29:30,852 --> 00:29:33,902
by doing what's right,
575
00:29:33,897 --> 00:29:35,357
regardless of what
all them bullies
576
00:29:35,356 --> 00:29:36,896
tell you what they think
you should do.
577
00:29:38,610 --> 00:29:40,650
It's just that George
is sick in the head.
578
00:29:40,653 --> 00:29:42,283
He's--he's violent.
579
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,490
You don't understand
what he's capable of.
580
00:29:56,878 --> 00:29:59,298
He doesn't know
what I'm capable of either.
581
00:30:02,342 --> 00:30:04,342
I'm stronger than they realize.
582
00:30:06,137 --> 00:30:09,177
And so are you, Clive Doyle.
583
00:30:13,353 --> 00:30:15,153
I don't give in to bullies.
584
00:30:16,856 --> 00:30:20,776
It's our job to do what's right.
585
00:30:20,777 --> 00:30:23,197
And it's God's job
to sort out the rest.
586
00:30:24,614 --> 00:30:28,124
Okay,
then let's go give 'em hell.
587
00:30:54,936 --> 00:30:56,186
So, I've just had breakfast
588
00:30:56,187 --> 00:30:57,977
with defendant Schroeder,
589
00:30:57,981 --> 00:31:00,151
and she's going to be playing
for the home team now,
590
00:31:00,149 --> 00:31:02,939
so get some statements
over... [indistinct]
591
00:31:02,944 --> 00:31:05,864
But I just wanted
to let you know for now.
592
00:31:05,864 --> 00:31:07,744
Good morning, by the way.
593
00:31:16,541 --> 00:31:18,501
Kathy Schroeder just flipped.
594
00:31:18,501 --> 00:31:19,791
She took the plea deal
595
00:31:19,794 --> 00:31:22,214
and she's turning
state's witness.
596
00:31:22,213 --> 00:31:24,223
Kathy's going to testify
against us?
597
00:31:24,215 --> 00:31:25,375
Yeah.
598
00:31:25,383 --> 00:31:28,473
dramatic music plays
599
00:31:34,684 --> 00:31:36,904
Now this
is a simple story...
600
00:31:37,770 --> 00:31:39,610
with two clear sides.
601
00:31:40,815 --> 00:31:42,935
The government agents
602
00:31:42,942 --> 00:31:46,032
who went in to serve
a legal search warrant...
603
00:31:47,447 --> 00:31:51,367
and the Branch Davidians,
led by David Koresh,
604
00:31:51,367 --> 00:31:55,747
who adhered
to a philosophy of death.
605
00:31:55,747 --> 00:31:58,247
A philosophy that led Koresh
606
00:31:58,249 --> 00:32:01,129
to train his people for battle
607
00:32:01,127 --> 00:32:02,797
and arm them for war,
608
00:32:02,795 --> 00:32:06,375
so that when those agents
approached Mount Carmel
609
00:32:06,382 --> 00:32:09,722
to do their legal duty,
610
00:32:09,719 --> 00:32:13,769
the defendants laid in wait
with guns in their hands.
611
00:32:13,765 --> 00:32:16,345
And when the agents
got close enough,
612
00:32:16,351 --> 00:32:19,101
the Branch Davidians
opened fire,
613
00:32:19,103 --> 00:32:22,443
murdering four federal officers
614
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,440
in cold blood.
615
00:32:24,442 --> 00:32:26,782
These men and women
aren't killers.
616
00:32:28,321 --> 00:32:29,701
They're victims.
617
00:32:32,075 --> 00:32:36,535
First, they were victimized
by David Koresh,
618
00:32:36,537 --> 00:32:40,787
a charismatic con man
who brainwashed them
619
00:32:42,502 --> 00:32:45,802
into believing
he was a messiah on earth.
620
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,390
And then they were victimized
by the ATF,
621
00:32:57,517 --> 00:32:59,937
who led an unnecessary
622
00:32:59,936 --> 00:33:02,186
ill-advised assault
on their home
623
00:33:02,188 --> 00:33:05,438
that left 76 of their friends
and family,
624
00:33:05,441 --> 00:33:08,441
and even their children, dead.
625
00:33:08,444 --> 00:33:10,324
You're making us look
like sheep,
626
00:33:10,321 --> 00:33:12,201
like we just blindly
followed David
627
00:33:12,198 --> 00:33:13,868
with no minds of our own.
628
00:33:13,866 --> 00:33:15,736
This isn't the strategy
we talked about before.
629
00:33:15,743 --> 00:33:17,333
We weren't brainwashed.
630
00:33:17,328 --> 00:33:19,618
We were defending
something real.
631
00:33:19,622 --> 00:33:20,962
We all believed in
632
00:33:20,957 --> 00:33:22,077
because we saw it
with our own eyes.
633
00:33:22,083 --> 00:33:25,343
My husband was shot dead
634
00:33:25,336 --> 00:33:26,836
and ripped to pieces
635
00:33:26,838 --> 00:33:29,668
by a government tank
because of those beliefs.
636
00:33:29,674 --> 00:33:31,844
It's not just the four of us
on trial here.
637
00:33:31,843 --> 00:33:36,013
When you say that
what we believe in is stupid,
638
00:33:36,014 --> 00:33:38,104
you're saying that
the people that we loved
639
00:33:38,099 --> 00:33:41,269
who burned in that building
died for nothing.
640
00:33:41,269 --> 00:33:43,479
I don't give a rat's ass
about your religion.
641
00:33:43,479 --> 00:33:46,019
And frankly, I don't even care
if you look sane.
642
00:33:47,650 --> 00:33:50,700
All I care about
is keeping you out of jail.
643
00:33:50,695 --> 00:33:52,195
That's my only focus here.
644
00:33:53,740 --> 00:33:56,030
And our defense tactics
have to change,
645
00:33:56,034 --> 00:33:58,334
because Kathy Schroeder
flipped on you.
646
00:34:00,038 --> 00:34:02,168
Before, you were all
a united front,
647
00:34:02,165 --> 00:34:05,075
whatever the prosecutor said
happened at Mount Carmel,
648
00:34:05,084 --> 00:34:07,094
was speculation.
649
00:34:07,086 --> 00:34:10,376
Now, one of your own is going
to corroborate their claims.
650
00:34:10,381 --> 00:34:12,971
Kathy is gonna tell the jury
that she passed out guns
651
00:34:12,967 --> 00:34:15,137
to each and every one of you
during the siege.
652
00:34:15,136 --> 00:34:17,256
I wasn't even there.
653
00:34:17,263 --> 00:34:19,603
Well, then she's gonna say
you bought the guns,
654
00:34:19,599 --> 00:34:21,559
make you into an arms dealer
with a death wish.
655
00:34:21,559 --> 00:34:25,899
She's gonna turn the rest of you
into an army out for blood.
656
00:34:25,897 --> 00:34:30,187
So if-if we can't say
you never held a gun,
657
00:34:30,193 --> 00:34:32,153
we have to make the jury believe
658
00:34:32,153 --> 00:34:34,823
that you had no choice
but to pick one up.
659
00:34:34,822 --> 00:34:38,082
You had no choice
but to protect yourselves,
660
00:34:38,076 --> 00:34:41,326
because David Koresh
conditioned you
661
00:34:41,329 --> 00:34:43,249
to do whatever he said,
662
00:34:43,247 --> 00:34:45,997
and the government charged in
trying to kill your children.
663
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,590
But we didn't just do
whatever he told us to do.
664
00:34:48,586 --> 00:34:50,336
We-we made choices.
Yeah, look,
665
00:34:50,338 --> 00:34:52,668
you can be as pissed
as you want at me in here,
666
00:34:52,673 --> 00:34:54,383
but when we're
in that courtroom,
667
00:34:54,383 --> 00:34:58,553
you need to sit there,
and you need to look sorry.
668
00:34:58,554 --> 00:35:00,644
You need to stop
shaking your head
669
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,520
and-and stop glowering
at the prosecutors.
670
00:35:03,518 --> 00:35:07,228
And you,
you need to wear a dress.
671
00:35:07,230 --> 00:35:09,690
Yeah, something
that makes you look softer
672
00:35:09,690 --> 00:35:11,320
and more vulnerable.
673
00:35:11,317 --> 00:35:12,737
I don't wear dresses.
674
00:35:12,735 --> 00:35:14,395
Well,
then we'll get you one.
675
00:35:14,403 --> 00:35:16,283
But you need to start
doing your part.
676
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,080
You need to start acting
like the victim.
677
00:35:21,327 --> 00:35:23,787
You need to be honest
about who you are.
678
00:35:24,705 --> 00:35:26,915
Proverbs speaks to this,
679
00:35:26,916 --> 00:35:28,836
calling for insight,
680
00:35:28,835 --> 00:35:32,505
not being afraid
to ask for help,
681
00:35:32,505 --> 00:35:34,965
so that we can better
understand ourselves.
682
00:35:37,468 --> 00:35:40,758
Vernon,
what are you struggling with?
683
00:35:40,763 --> 00:35:42,223
How can we help you?
684
00:35:44,851 --> 00:35:49,151
I struggle with my own desires,
685
00:35:49,147 --> 00:35:51,567
which I feel
so strong sometimes.
686
00:35:52,650 --> 00:35:54,400
What kind of desires?
687
00:35:56,112 --> 00:35:57,662
Pleasure of the flesh.
688
00:35:59,782 --> 00:36:01,912
Sometimes it's so strong,
689
00:36:01,909 --> 00:36:04,539
I have to relieve that pressure
several times a day.
690
00:36:04,537 --> 00:36:05,577
Oh!
691
00:36:05,580 --> 00:36:08,420
It's okay. It's okay.
692
00:36:08,416 --> 00:36:10,626
You should feel comfortable
to share.
693
00:36:10,626 --> 00:36:12,336
You shouldn't feel embarrassed.
694
00:36:12,336 --> 00:36:14,336
I never said I was embarrassed.
695
00:36:17,633 --> 00:36:19,803
Everyone has
their own struggles.
696
00:36:20,928 --> 00:36:23,308
No temptation has overtaken you
697
00:36:23,306 --> 00:36:26,056
that is not common to man.
698
00:36:26,058 --> 00:36:27,938
God is faithful.
699
00:36:27,935 --> 00:36:30,435
He will not let you be tempted
beyond your ability, but--
700
00:36:30,438 --> 00:36:31,898
But with that temptation,
701
00:36:31,898 --> 00:36:33,858
He will also provide
the way of escape.
702
00:36:34,775 --> 00:36:37,315
Corinthians 10:13.
703
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,990
But when that temptation
comes over me,
704
00:36:39,989 --> 00:36:43,489
I wonder if she's ever known
loving hands on her body,
705
00:36:43,492 --> 00:36:46,122
if she's ever felt true pleasure
706
00:36:47,413 --> 00:36:50,213
and I'm overcome...
707
00:36:50,208 --> 00:36:54,088
with desire until I feel
like I might go mad.
708
00:36:58,049 --> 00:36:59,839
You were, uh--
709
00:36:59,842 --> 00:37:01,802
you were pretty honest
at Bible study.
710
00:37:01,802 --> 00:37:04,102
I promised myself
that when I came here,
711
00:37:04,096 --> 00:37:06,056
I wouldn't hold back
any bit of myself...
712
00:37:07,475 --> 00:37:09,135
even those little ugly parts
713
00:37:09,143 --> 00:37:11,403
that I'd rather sometimes
just sweep under the rug.
714
00:37:13,689 --> 00:37:16,779
I--I felt the same way
when I came here.
715
00:37:18,236 --> 00:37:20,236
Like I wanted to give
all of myself.
716
00:37:22,823 --> 00:37:24,413
Kindred spirits, I guess.
717
00:37:28,287 --> 00:37:30,207
Looks good over here.
- Oh, do you need me?
718
00:37:31,540 --> 00:37:33,500
Not just yet.
719
00:37:33,501 --> 00:37:36,591
Actually, uh, I just came over
to talk to Vernon.
720
00:37:37,922 --> 00:37:40,552
Uh, Vernon,
721
00:37:40,549 --> 00:37:44,259
I'm getting ready to go
on my yearly trip to Israel.
722
00:37:44,262 --> 00:37:46,932
And I think
you should join me...
723
00:37:46,931 --> 00:37:48,021
to study.
724
00:37:50,309 --> 00:37:53,439
dramatic music plays
725
00:37:57,066 --> 00:37:58,526
Nothing would give me
more pleasure
726
00:37:58,526 --> 00:38:00,856
than learning
right from your hands.
727
00:38:01,988 --> 00:38:03,028
Good.
728
00:38:04,448 --> 00:38:06,028
That's settled then.
729
00:38:06,033 --> 00:38:08,043
dramatic music plays
730
00:38:32,101 --> 00:38:34,981
Hi. Uh, excuse me.
Are you Angie?
731
00:38:34,979 --> 00:38:36,269
Jacob sent me.
732
00:38:36,272 --> 00:38:37,612
Oh, yes. Yeah.
733
00:38:37,606 --> 00:38:38,686
Gary?
- Right.
734
00:38:38,691 --> 00:38:39,691
Okay. Hi.
- Yeah.
735
00:38:40,985 --> 00:38:42,855
So you drew
the short straw, huh?
736
00:38:42,862 --> 00:38:45,112
Yeah. Our informant's
name is Carol Howe.
737
00:38:45,114 --> 00:38:48,124
And, um, we didn't know
how seriously to take her
738
00:38:48,117 --> 00:38:51,657
because she's not the most
reliable-seeming informant.
739
00:38:51,662 --> 00:38:53,752
Uh-hmm.
740
00:38:53,748 --> 00:38:55,498
How'd she wind up here
in the hospital?
741
00:38:55,499 --> 00:38:57,959
Did they find out
she was informing and hurt her?
742
00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:59,630
Actually, kind of the opposite.
743
00:38:59,628 --> 00:39:01,088
No, Wild Bill actually
beat her up pretty bad
744
00:39:01,088 --> 00:39:02,548
before the robbery...
- Uh-hmm.
745
00:39:02,548 --> 00:39:04,508
...and she got pissed,
so she tipped us off
746
00:39:04,508 --> 00:39:07,008
as a way to get revenge.
- Mmm.
747
00:39:07,011 --> 00:39:09,311
She's not a big fan
of authority,
748
00:39:09,305 --> 00:39:12,805
to say the least,
and, uh, she's a bit erratic.
749
00:39:12,808 --> 00:39:14,308
How so?
750
00:39:14,310 --> 00:39:17,360
God damn it! Come on!
751
00:39:18,898 --> 00:39:21,148
TV signal's shit in here, Angie.
752
00:39:23,986 --> 00:39:26,156
Hey there, Carol. I'm Gary.
753
00:39:27,782 --> 00:39:29,582
How's Wild Bill?
754
00:39:29,575 --> 00:39:31,325
Did he ask about me?
755
00:39:31,327 --> 00:39:33,037
He lawyered up
pretty quickly,
756
00:39:33,037 --> 00:39:35,617
so I honestly don't know
what he's asking about.
757
00:39:35,623 --> 00:39:37,633
Is he doing okay?
Yeah,
758
00:39:37,625 --> 00:39:40,625
for someone who's gonna spend
ten to twenty years in prison.
759
00:39:40,628 --> 00:39:43,008
I didn't mean to get him
locked up that long.
760
00:39:43,005 --> 00:39:45,415
But that asshole shouldn't have
laid his hands on me like that.
761
00:39:45,424 --> 00:39:47,224
You don't mess
with a lady's face!
762
00:39:48,177 --> 00:39:49,297
That's right.
763
00:39:49,303 --> 00:39:50,303
That's right.
764
00:39:50,304 --> 00:39:51,394
Uh-hmm.
765
00:39:53,015 --> 00:39:55,475
So Wild Bill had made
some allusions
766
00:39:55,476 --> 00:39:58,306
to some kind of payback
against the government.
767
00:39:58,312 --> 00:40:01,232
Did he ever speak to you
about anything like that?
768
00:40:01,232 --> 00:40:03,572
Gary?
769
00:40:03,567 --> 00:40:05,647
I ain't some kind of narc.
770
00:40:05,653 --> 00:40:08,413
I'm just a person who's sick
of her boyfriend's shit.
771
00:40:08,406 --> 00:40:09,866
Yeah, fair enough.
772
00:40:09,865 --> 00:40:12,025
But, uh, I'd say
there's a difference
773
00:40:12,034 --> 00:40:14,204
between being a narc
and saving the lives
774
00:40:14,203 --> 00:40:16,123
of innocent people.
775
00:40:18,874 --> 00:40:20,584
Ain't nobody innocent.
776
00:40:22,545 --> 00:40:23,585
Really?
777
00:40:25,464 --> 00:40:29,764
Well, what about Elohim City?
Did you hear anyone there...
778
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,260
speak about some sort of
planned payback?
779
00:40:38,144 --> 00:40:39,904
I don't know about Elohim City.
780
00:40:39,895 --> 00:40:43,015
tense music plays
781
00:40:50,865 --> 00:40:52,445
Come on, Carol,
this is important.
782
00:40:52,450 --> 00:40:54,450
I'm trying to keep people
from getting hurt.
783
00:40:55,661 --> 00:40:58,751
tense music plays
784
00:41:01,834 --> 00:41:02,844
Dammit.
785
00:41:04,503 --> 00:41:05,963
I don't--the people
you're asking
786
00:41:05,963 --> 00:41:07,513
about at Elohim City,
787
00:41:07,506 --> 00:41:09,466
they didn't really talk
to me much, okay?
788
00:41:11,135 --> 00:41:13,465
And I never heard anything
specific about anything,
789
00:41:13,471 --> 00:41:15,471
but I will tell you...
790
00:41:17,308 --> 00:41:18,888
they talk a lot
about how the government
791
00:41:18,893 --> 00:41:20,443
has turned on them.
792
00:41:20,436 --> 00:41:23,556
dramatic music plays
793
00:41:23,564 --> 00:41:26,984
They talk about
a holy war that's coming.
794
00:41:26,984 --> 00:41:29,824
And they're gonna be
on the frontlines.
795
00:41:29,820 --> 00:41:32,490
But that's nothing on its own.
796
00:41:32,490 --> 00:41:35,200
You know, I know plenty
of people who talk like that.
797
00:41:37,786 --> 00:41:41,666
But the thing
about Elohim City is,
798
00:41:41,665 --> 00:41:44,535
it's full of people
who tend to mean what they say.
799
00:41:45,711 --> 00:41:47,711
What does
that mean exactly?
800
00:41:50,758 --> 00:41:52,638
It means if payback is coming,
801
00:41:52,635 --> 00:41:54,635
then I would guess
it's gonna come from there.
802
00:42:00,559 --> 00:42:01,639
Yeah.
803
00:42:03,229 --> 00:42:06,319
suspenseful music plays
804
00:42:13,697 --> 00:42:16,737
rock music plays
805
00:42:26,669 --> 00:42:31,629
Nowhere to run to, uh, uh
806
00:42:31,632 --> 00:42:36,722
Nowhere to hide
60723
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