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Subs created by: David Coleman.
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Someone's saying there
wasn't anywhere to run.
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00:00:14,981 --> 00:00:16,647
Serial killer pops in my head.
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00:00:16,648 --> 00:00:19,557
I said, if you're here,
open this door now.
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I don't like it. I just
want to be out of here.
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He wound up murdering his own mother.
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- And how'd he do that?
- With an ax.
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Oh, [Bleep] It's time for me
to live here with my family.
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This guy is saying,
make sure they're dead.
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Make sure. Make sure.
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It's really bad in here.
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My name is Amy Allan.
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Something is not right.
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I see dead people.
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This person might have
been a serial killer.
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I speak to dead people.
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00:00:49,740 --> 00:00:51,542
You get those chills.
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And they speak to me.
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He is darkness. He is evil.
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00:00:55,413 --> 00:00:58,381
But there's only one way to
know if my findings are real.
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I think she broke her neck.
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I rely on my partner.
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I'm Steve Di Schiavi. I'm a retired
New York City homicide Detective.
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You telling me the truth?
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And I know every person,
every house has secrets.
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I think the Devil is down here.
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It's my job to reveal them.
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Who the hell would do this?
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But Steve and I never speak...
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We never communicate
during an investigation.
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Until the very end.
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Who is he looking to kill?
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We uncover if it's
safe for you to stay...
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You need to get out of here right now.
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Or time to get out.
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It was like endless darkness.
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_.
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Amy and I work the same case,
but from two different angles.
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I interview living witnesses and uncover
buried secrets from the property's past.
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While Amy communicates with the dead.
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00:02:01,173 --> 00:02:05,409
Every once in a while, Amy and I get called
in to investigate a well-known location.
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00:02:05,410 --> 00:02:07,615
This is one of those times.
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I'm in rural Iowa, heading over to
the infamous Villisca ax murder house.
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Now, here's what Amy and I
both know going into this case.
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June 9th, 1912.
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Six members of the Moore family,
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and two young girls who will be spending
the night with them as house guests...
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Walk back from the church
along a country road.
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Around 9:30 P.M. they arrive home.
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The following morning,
they will all be found dead.
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All murdered by a swing
of an ax to the head.
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Despite countless theories
and two sensational trials...
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No one has ever been brought to justice.
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And the Villisca Ax Murders remain on of
the world's most horrific unsolved crimes.
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But here's what Amy doesn't know...
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We've actually been called in by a guy
that leads tours in the ax murder house.
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He thinks something has followed him
home and is terrorizing his family.
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He sounds pretty concerned, and I'm
hoping Amy and I can help him out.
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Matthew: Even though Amy
knows where she's going...
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I still have to cover anything
that may influence her findings.
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But what she doesn't know,
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is that she'll also be walking
the client's home next door.
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So, it's important I take my time
there to remove any leading information.
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In my opening, I met this
woman who's here with me.
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Okay.
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She's all disfigured,
and she is very angry.
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Uh, about everything.
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She feels responsible.
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Uh, because she either let
someone in or let them stay.
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But I hear from someone else that
it's actually her husband's fault.
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This doesn't feel right.
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_.
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John, so this is the actual house
where the murders took place.
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- Exactly.
- Okay.
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- You don't live here, though?
- No.
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I live right next door, where the neighbor
that found the bodies used to live.
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- Okay. Now, what do you do?
- I do the history tours.
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We'll tell people about what happened
going into the trials afterwards.
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Okay.
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But pretty soon, as I started
spending a lot of time here,
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I thought, in my head,
I'm gonna solve this case.
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And, you know, once I really
started delving into it...
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I've become obsessed with it.
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John, let me ask you,
why'd you call us in, then?
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I'm concerned that something
over here followed me next door.
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I have a wife, a
13-year-old, a 4-year-old...
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00:05:31,487 --> 00:05:34,411
And we're getting scared at some
of the things that's happening.
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So, what kind of things are
you experiencing at your house?
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There's a lot doors
opening and closing, uh...
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The back aches, the neck aches.
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And I would hear growling noises,
scratching noises, things like that.
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So, were you experiencing stuff here first,
and then it start happening at your house?
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Yeah, I started experiencing
things here first,
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and that's what really drew me into it.
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I thought, wow, is this
stuff really happening?
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Okay. What are you
hoping we can do for you?
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If something's following me home from
work at my house, I don't want that there.
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I want a safe, happy home, and to really
just get on with the rest of my life.
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So, why don't you show me what's happening
here, before we go over to your house.
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Follow me.
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Amy: Mm.
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Matthew: What's wrong?
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I'm just hearing someone saying...
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"There wasn't anywhere to run".
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[Floor creaking]
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What's going on?
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I just feel a lot...
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Of pain right here. I can't breathe.
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_.
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So, this is where Ina and Lena Stillinger
were found, the two overnight guests.
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Steve: Wow. Okay.
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So, what's going on in here?
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A lot of nausea, feeling sick,
neck hurting, back hurting.
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Do you feel this when
you're away from the house?
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No.
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Walk outside [Snaps] gone. Instantly.
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Wow.
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In this room, I've heard
a lot of loud growling.
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And not animal growls.
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This was kind of a growl, gasp,
moan combined, if that makes sense.
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From a human?
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The growl did not sound human.
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The gasp and moan afterwards
sounded very feminine.
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You don't think that has
something to do with the fact
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that you know two little
girls were murdered in here?
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Like, maybe it's something
you might've imagined?
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No. It was definitely loud and real.
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Okay.
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There's two females...
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Maybe 8 or 9.
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One of them likes to scare people.
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She growls.
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She's like, sometimes I like to go...
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[Growls]
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Like that, she says.
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And I think they would hear her
and feel her before they saw her.
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Okay.
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And with them, I'm getting pain here.
139
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Oh, a lot of pain here.
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Oh [Bleep].
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_.
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John: This was the home
of Mary Peckham, the
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lady that found the bodies that morning.
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Steve: Okay. What are you
experiencing in this house?
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My wife had just went to work,
my daughter was at preschool.
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And I hear, "John"! And it startled me.
I jumped and I looked around, and nobody.
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00:08:55,724 --> 00:08:57,534
I looked out the window
and you could see her
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car going up the street.
There was nobody here.
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It wasn't anybody outside
trying to get your attention?
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00:09:01,985 --> 00:09:04,270
No. I looked all around the house.
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00:09:04,271 --> 00:09:05,554
Okay.
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00:09:05,555 --> 00:09:09,326
And there was one time, I took
the door and I latched it shut.
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00:09:09,327 --> 00:09:11,858
And, just on a whim,
I said, Mary Peckham,
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or anything to do with the axe murder
house, if you're here, open this door now.
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And then it slammed open.
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Really? Was anybody home?
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No, I was alone.
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Steve: John's story sounded
a little too convenient.
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00:09:27,979 --> 00:09:31,507
So, I started looking for any signs
that he might be stretching the truth.
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00:09:31,508 --> 00:09:33,871
But as far as I could
tell, he wasn't lying.
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I mean, it's got to be pretty
tough on the whole family, right?
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00:09:36,377 --> 00:09:40,708
Yeah. I don't want anybody in
this house scared of anything.
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And, at one time, I actually just
padlocked the door shut coming up here.
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Because it all centers
around up here, it seems like.
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Okay.
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00:09:52,803 --> 00:09:55,383
[Door creaking]
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00:10:01,211 --> 00:10:06,159
Amy: A lot of the dead people from
next door come here... live here.
168
00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,680
Any idea why?
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00:10:08,852 --> 00:10:11,552
They feel happy.
170
00:10:11,889 --> 00:10:15,489
They're able to be together.
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00:10:24,234 --> 00:10:27,747
The older woman from outside...
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00:10:27,748 --> 00:10:31,791
She's trying to talk to a person here...
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- Okay.
- But she's throwing a fit.
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00:10:34,038 --> 00:10:37,938
Like, she is going [Bleep] crazy.
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00:10:38,963 --> 00:10:43,482
The second this woman steps into this
room, she becomes filled with rage.
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00:10:43,483 --> 00:10:49,383
She's had it with the living, and all
of her anger is directed at one man.
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00:10:49,397 --> 00:10:54,977
She's saying, you're a guilty
[Bleep] and you know it.
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00:10:56,167 --> 00:10:59,891
John: I had a couple friends stay
the night, they all slept in here.
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00:10:59,892 --> 00:11:04,498
And the next morning, one said that he woke
up to an old woman's distorted face...
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00:11:04,499 --> 00:11:06,620
Just right above his.
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00:11:06,621 --> 00:11:10,533
He was pretty terrified and he
said he'd never sleep up here again.
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00:11:10,534 --> 00:11:12,898
Has anybody else in the
house seen this woman?
183
00:11:12,899 --> 00:11:16,683
Uh... my daughter has talked
about a woman she's seen.
184
00:11:16,684 --> 00:11:18,318
Okay. And what does she describe?
185
00:11:18,319 --> 00:11:23,260
Right when we moved in, she
started talking about Hattie.
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00:11:23,261 --> 00:11:28,536
I said, who is Hattie? She
goes, that's the woman upstairs.
187
00:11:28,537 --> 00:11:31,272
How do you talk about
ghosts to a 4-year-old?
188
00:11:31,273 --> 00:11:33,839
Right. I'm gonna hit you with a
question that you may not like.
189
00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,379
Now, what if Amy comes in and she
says, listen to me, you need to move.
190
00:11:37,380 --> 00:11:41,182
It's just not that easy. We
can't just pick up and move.
191
00:11:41,183 --> 00:11:43,916
And kind of the way I
see it, I often wonder
192
00:11:43,917 --> 00:11:46,958
is it fate that I'm supposed to be here?
193
00:11:46,959 --> 00:11:50,493
Could be that it's time for
me to live here with my family.
194
00:11:50,494 --> 00:11:52,414
Okay.
195
00:11:55,029 --> 00:11:59,226
The woman, she's definitely doing
some creepy [Bleep] around here.
196
00:11:59,227 --> 00:12:01,467
Like what?
197
00:12:01,468 --> 00:12:05,844
You know, somebody's seen an
apparition of her many times.
198
00:12:05,845 --> 00:12:08,775
But it's not normal,
she doesn't look normal.
199
00:12:08,776 --> 00:12:10,423
What does it look like?
200
00:12:10,424 --> 00:12:13,724
She's messed up. Like...
201
00:12:14,689 --> 00:12:16,745
Like all...
202
00:12:16,746 --> 00:12:18,726
Weird.
203
00:12:19,162 --> 00:12:24,502
I'm pretty [Bleep] sure
she's haunting these people.
204
00:12:29,756 --> 00:12:31,976
[Whispers]
205
00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,960
[Birds chirping]
206
00:12:48,575 --> 00:12:51,640
So, Martha, I was talking to John
and he said that you own this place.
207
00:12:51,641 --> 00:12:56,666
Yes, I do. My husband and I,
Darwin, purchased the house in 1994.
208
00:12:56,667 --> 00:12:58,736
Let me ask you a question,
did you guys know that
209
00:12:58,737 --> 00:13:01,162
this place might've had some
paranormal stuff going on?
210
00:13:01,163 --> 00:13:03,982
No. When we purchased
it, we purchased it simply
211
00:13:03,983 --> 00:13:06,628
because of the historical
value that it had.
212
00:13:06,629 --> 00:13:09,522
Do you think, maybe all these
paranormal groups coming through
213
00:13:09,523 --> 00:13:11,665
may be stirring some
stuff up in the house?
214
00:13:11,666 --> 00:13:16,211
The paranormal groups like to tell you that
perhaps the paranormal activity started
215
00:13:16,212 --> 00:13:19,275
when we restored it back to
what it looked like in 1912.
216
00:13:19,276 --> 00:13:22,532
Because a lot of the people that
had lived here in the modern world,
217
00:13:22,533 --> 00:13:24,611
didn't seem to experience anything.
218
00:13:24,612 --> 00:13:26,403
Are you worried about
the guests that come
219
00:13:26,404 --> 00:13:28,315
through here, or the
people that work for you?
220
00:13:28,316 --> 00:13:30,155
- No. No, I'm not.
- No?
221
00:13:30,156 --> 00:13:32,266
- Not worried about what's going on here?
- No.
222
00:13:32,267 --> 00:13:34,430
This is a little bit of a
different situation here.
223
00:13:34,431 --> 00:13:37,859
Usually, go to people's homes, where they
live, and my partner gives them advice.
224
00:13:37,860 --> 00:13:41,283
What if she suggested that
you stop doing the tours here?
225
00:13:41,284 --> 00:13:45,785
I would listen to what you had
to say, I'll take it to heart...
226
00:13:45,786 --> 00:13:51,066
But I probably will not
discontinue what I'm doing.
227
00:13:55,644 --> 00:13:57,437
She says, like, they deserve it.
228
00:13:57,438 --> 00:14:00,048
They deserve to suffer,
or they deserved to suffer.
229
00:14:00,049 --> 00:14:03,409
And I'm like, well, why?
230
00:14:04,980 --> 00:14:08,289
She's like, this is what
they get. They deserve it.
231
00:14:08,290 --> 00:14:11,256
She's adamant about this.
232
00:14:11,257 --> 00:14:15,045
The angry woman I met outside
is furious with the living here.
233
00:14:15,046 --> 00:14:19,760
She wants them to experience the
same pain she feels all the time.
234
00:14:19,761 --> 00:14:24,350
I mean, she's definitely about
wanting someone to suffer.
235
00:14:24,351 --> 00:14:30,251
But they better not think that
she's kidding, because she's not.
236
00:14:35,229 --> 00:14:39,287
So, Kristy, I was talking to John, and
he said you also give tours here yourself.
237
00:14:39,288 --> 00:14:41,863
- Yes, I do.
- Okay. And you've had experiences?
238
00:14:41,864 --> 00:14:43,625
Yeah, I have. I've had many.
239
00:14:43,626 --> 00:14:45,727
Are you okay? Because
you seem a little on edge.
240
00:14:45,728 --> 00:14:48,463
I... I don't like being upstairs.
241
00:14:48,464 --> 00:14:52,687
I've had many experiences
up here, and it's...
242
00:14:52,688 --> 00:14:55,696
- It makes me very uncomfortable.
- Can you tell me about 'em?
243
00:14:55,697 --> 00:14:59,717
Yes. I was doing a tour and um...
244
00:14:59,874 --> 00:15:02,095
I heard footsteps coming
up the stairs behind me.
245
00:15:02,096 --> 00:15:04,433
There was nobody else downstairs,
everybody was upstairs.
246
00:15:04,434 --> 00:15:07,157
- Okay, so you heard footsteps coming.
- I heard footsteps coming up.
247
00:15:07,158 --> 00:15:09,921
I ran through that bedroom
screaming into here.
248
00:15:09,922 --> 00:15:11,489
And um...
249
00:15:11,490 --> 00:15:15,147
This one guy followed me in and he
said, I heard those footsteps, too.
250
00:15:15,148 --> 00:15:18,005
- He didn't know why I took off running.
- Anything else?
251
00:15:18,006 --> 00:15:21,563
Well, one time I got my hair ruffled.
252
00:15:21,564 --> 00:15:24,664
- Okay.
- And another time, I was touched.
253
00:15:24,665 --> 00:15:26,655
- Was it anything inappropriate?
- Yeah.
254
00:15:26,656 --> 00:15:28,060
- It was?
- Mm hmm.
255
00:15:28,061 --> 00:15:30,018
Kristy, with all you've
experienced in the house,
256
00:15:30,019 --> 00:15:31,683
do you think whatever's
here is dangerous?
257
00:15:31,684 --> 00:15:33,146
Yeah, I think so.
258
00:15:33,147 --> 00:15:34,802
- So, why don't we go, because...
- Okay.
259
00:15:34,803 --> 00:15:38,283
Thanks for even doing this.
260
00:15:48,211 --> 00:15:54,092
So, there's a male in there who's
like, come on in here, you [Bleep]!
261
00:15:54,093 --> 00:15:56,493
Come on in.
262
00:15:57,930 --> 00:16:00,870
I don't feel good.
263
00:16:00,939 --> 00:16:03,459
So much uh...
264
00:16:03,524 --> 00:16:07,064
Commotion and movement and...
265
00:16:07,102 --> 00:16:10,402
Fear and panic and pain.
266
00:16:10,444 --> 00:16:13,141
And there's so...
267
00:16:13,142 --> 00:16:17,250
There's a lot of people in the house.
268
00:16:17,251 --> 00:16:20,086
When all this is... there's
so many people in the house.
269
00:16:20,087 --> 00:16:24,020
All of these people are trapped here.
270
00:16:24,021 --> 00:16:27,501
Especially these three kids.
271
00:16:34,284 --> 00:16:36,504
[Whispers]
272
00:16:44,587 --> 00:16:47,980
I know most of the basic facts
about the Villisca Ax Murders.
273
00:16:47,981 --> 00:16:53,881
But in order to help my clients, I need to
speak with the foremost expert on the case.
274
00:16:54,082 --> 00:16:57,083
I need him to tell me what
happened the night that two adults,
275
00:16:57,084 --> 00:17:02,984
and six children were murdered
on the property I'm investigating.
276
00:17:12,881 --> 00:17:18,337
It remains one of the more
spectacular cases in Iowa history.
277
00:17:18,338 --> 00:17:21,127
- There were eight people killed.
- Okay.
278
00:17:21,128 --> 00:17:25,560
You had Joe and Sarah Moore
and their four children.
279
00:17:25,561 --> 00:17:28,861
Here's two of the kids.
280
00:17:29,234 --> 00:17:31,901
And then, there were two
girls visiting that night.
281
00:17:31,902 --> 00:17:34,280
- Okay.
- And they were the Stillinger girls.
282
00:17:34,281 --> 00:17:36,801
Ina and Lena.
283
00:17:38,263 --> 00:17:42,354
Can you just take me back to what
happened leading up to the murders?
284
00:17:42,355 --> 00:17:45,770
Sunday night, the 9th of June,
they all went to church together.
285
00:17:45,771 --> 00:17:46,682
Okay.
286
00:17:46,683 --> 00:17:50,926
They were having a special service, which
was called the children's day service.
287
00:17:50,927 --> 00:17:55,292
They had a guest that night, a
minister, Lyn George Jacklin Kelly.
288
00:17:55,293 --> 00:17:57,512
Never been in Villisca before.
289
00:17:57,513 --> 00:18:02,681
And he was going to later be accused
of the murder and tried for it.
290
00:18:02,682 --> 00:18:04,670
But acquitted.
291
00:18:04,671 --> 00:18:07,971
And then, the eight of
them were going home.
292
00:18:07,972 --> 00:18:11,465
And there's a rumor at least,
that one of the children
293
00:18:11,466 --> 00:18:15,846
thought they saw somebody in the bushes.
294
00:18:18,933 --> 00:18:21,511
I'm seeing this man...
295
00:18:21,512 --> 00:18:23,734
Standing...
296
00:18:23,735 --> 00:18:26,915
In the trees, watching.
297
00:18:28,424 --> 00:18:34,324
He was angry and jealous, and I hear
somebody say that he was very religious.
298
00:18:35,097 --> 00:18:39,250
Then, the next morning, the
next house west from theirs...
299
00:18:39,251 --> 00:18:42,722
30 feet away, a woman named Peckham...
300
00:18:42,723 --> 00:18:46,107
Noticed that there was no
activity around the Moore house.
301
00:18:46,108 --> 00:18:48,009
That's the house where
my client's living now.
302
00:18:48,010 --> 00:18:49,401
Yep.
303
00:18:49,402 --> 00:18:53,931
Peckham shouted, knocked on
the door, got no response.
304
00:18:53,932 --> 00:18:56,728
She called Joe's brother.
305
00:18:56,729 --> 00:19:02,629
He and Mrs. Peckham walk through
the front parlor to a back bedroom.
306
00:19:02,873 --> 00:19:05,512
Lying in the bed were two figures.
307
00:19:05,513 --> 00:19:06,439
Okay.
308
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:10,054
On the bedstead behind them,
there were... there was blood.
309
00:19:10,055 --> 00:19:12,600
And they called for the town marshal.
310
00:19:12,601 --> 00:19:16,263
So, he looks around the room,
and the killer has taken a...
311
00:19:16,264 --> 00:19:22,164
A woman's black skirt out of a
dresser and draped it over the mirror.
312
00:19:22,567 --> 00:19:27,127
The ax is leaning
against the south wall.
313
00:19:27,190 --> 00:19:29,583
And it's got blood and hair on it.
314
00:19:29,584 --> 00:19:33,770
They had all been killed
with the back of the ax.
315
00:19:33,771 --> 00:19:39,125
Mrs. Moore, she was the only one
struck with the blade of the ax.
316
00:19:39,126 --> 00:19:40,358
Interesting.
317
00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:45,877
And they were so disfigured, they
were mutilated beyond recognition.
318
00:19:45,878 --> 00:19:49,187
And their faces had been
covered with a piece of clothing.
319
00:19:49,188 --> 00:19:52,084
And then the covers had
been pulled over them.
320
00:19:52,085 --> 00:19:56,815
And leaning beside the ax is a
four-pound piece of slab bacon.
321
00:19:56,816 --> 00:20:00,194
That's odd. Now, was there
any theory about the bacon?
322
00:20:00,195 --> 00:20:03,433
There was one theory,
that the killer...
323
00:20:03,434 --> 00:20:07,172
Rolled it into a tube and
used it as a masturbatory aid.
324
00:20:07,173 --> 00:20:09,506
Wow. Serial killer pops in my head.
325
00:20:09,507 --> 00:20:11,607
Mm-hmm.
326
00:20:17,917 --> 00:20:20,744
Amy: I just hear
crying. A lot of crying.
327
00:20:20,745 --> 00:20:26,145
And I do see somebody being
dragged across the floor.
328
00:20:27,216 --> 00:20:32,123
And I hear a male voice saying, it's
gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay.
329
00:20:32,124 --> 00:20:34,403
This kid knew this guy.
330
00:20:34,404 --> 00:20:37,458
She knows this person
very well, very well.
331
00:20:37,459 --> 00:20:38,859
Okay.
332
00:20:38,860 --> 00:20:43,900
And there was struggling.
What is going on here?
333
00:20:44,137 --> 00:20:47,129
There's, like, physical...
334
00:20:47,130 --> 00:20:48,388
Stuff happening.
335
00:20:48,389 --> 00:20:52,038
Like, there's a man saying,
make sure that they're dead.
336
00:20:52,039 --> 00:20:53,816
Uh, make sure.
337
00:20:53,817 --> 00:20:56,097
Make sure.
338
00:21:00,242 --> 00:21:02,462
[Whispers]
339
00:21:10,071 --> 00:21:13,561
Amy: There's a man saying,
make sure that they're dead.
340
00:21:13,562 --> 00:21:15,842
Make sure.
341
00:21:16,122 --> 00:21:19,191
There's the woman again.
342
00:21:19,192 --> 00:21:21,877
She says, how can you let them do this?
343
00:21:21,878 --> 00:21:23,397
How can you let them do this?
344
00:21:23,398 --> 00:21:26,758
Aren't they your friends?
345
00:21:27,031 --> 00:21:30,811
Like, she's hysterically crying.
346
00:21:32,855 --> 00:21:34,753
Steve: I need to find
out what kind of evidence
347
00:21:34,754 --> 00:21:36,810
the cops collected when
they got to the scene.
348
00:21:36,811 --> 00:21:40,018
So, I'm heading to the state capital
to meet with the County Sheriff.
349
00:21:40,019 --> 00:21:42,364
And he said he can tell
me exactly what they found,
350
00:21:42,365 --> 00:21:48,265
and why it led them to narrow down
their suspect list to four men.
351
00:21:59,512 --> 00:22:01,805
- Hey, Joe.
- Hi, Steve. How are you doing?
352
00:22:01,806 --> 00:22:03,418
Thanks for meeting me, I appreciate it.
353
00:22:03,419 --> 00:22:05,723
Now, I wanted to talk to
another cop about this.
354
00:22:05,724 --> 00:22:09,382
I mean, can you take me
through the crime scene itself?
355
00:22:09,383 --> 00:22:12,856
Basically, the crime scene
was quickly deteriorated
356
00:22:12,857 --> 00:22:16,149
by a whole barrage of
people going through there.
357
00:22:16,150 --> 00:22:17,090
It was tainted.
358
00:22:17,091 --> 00:22:19,218
So, you had civilians walking
through the crime scene?
359
00:22:19,219 --> 00:22:21,612
- That's right.
- Wow, okay.
360
00:22:21,613 --> 00:22:25,375
I know this guy Kelly
was arrested and charged.
361
00:22:25,376 --> 00:22:28,806
Reverend George Kelly. He
was one of the four suspects.
362
00:22:28,807 --> 00:22:32,453
The first suspect
would've been F.F. Jones.
363
00:22:32,454 --> 00:22:35,427
Mr. Moore had worked
for him for nine years.
364
00:22:35,428 --> 00:22:38,211
They got into a disagreement over wages.
365
00:22:38,212 --> 00:22:39,941
Mr. Moore went on his own.
366
00:22:39,942 --> 00:22:43,774
And when he left, he took one
of Mr. Jones' biggest customers.
367
00:22:43,775 --> 00:22:47,056
Also, there was the rumor that...
368
00:22:47,057 --> 00:22:50,199
Mr. Moore was having an affair.
369
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:51,470
With his daughter-in-law.
370
00:22:51,471 --> 00:22:53,332
- F.F.'s daughter-in-law?
- That's right.
371
00:22:53,333 --> 00:22:56,862
Doesn't sound like it was
enough for him to kill six kids.
372
00:22:56,863 --> 00:23:00,918
Well, that's where suspect
number two comes in.
373
00:23:00,919 --> 00:23:03,313
William Blackie Mansfield.
374
00:23:03,314 --> 00:23:07,102
It is rumored Mr. Jones
had hired Mr. Mansfield...
375
00:23:07,103 --> 00:23:08,514
To do his dirty work.
376
00:23:08,515 --> 00:23:10,719
Did they ever bring him
in, charge him, or anything?
377
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:15,786
He had an alibi. He was actually in
Chicago, Illinois, working, at the time.
378
00:23:15,787 --> 00:23:17,586
Henry Lee Moore.
379
00:23:17,587 --> 00:23:19,575
Well, he looks the
part, that's for sure.
380
00:23:19,576 --> 00:23:20,902
Yes, he does.
381
00:23:20,903 --> 00:23:23,243
He wound up, two years later...
382
00:23:23,244 --> 00:23:28,086
Murdering his own mother and
Grandmother in Columbia, Missouri.
383
00:23:28,087 --> 00:23:30,302
- And how'd he do that?
- With an ax.
384
00:23:30,303 --> 00:23:32,098
- Bludgeoned them to death.
- Okay.
385
00:23:32,099 --> 00:23:34,968
- But, he's arrested and charged, I guess?
- He had an alibi.
386
00:23:34,969 --> 00:23:37,736
The only one that was ever
arrested and charged...
387
00:23:37,737 --> 00:23:40,028
Was reverend George Kelly.
388
00:23:40,029 --> 00:23:42,841
Joe, what wound up leading
the guys to arrest him?
389
00:23:42,842 --> 00:23:45,479
Someone said that they overheard him
390
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,581
talking about the murders when
he was leaving that morning.
391
00:23:48,582 --> 00:23:50,998
He caught the 5:30
train out of Villisca.
392
00:23:50,999 --> 00:23:54,388
And they didn't discover the
murders until around 7:00 A.M.
393
00:23:54,389 --> 00:23:57,491
Well, it was several years
later that they arrested him.
394
00:23:57,492 --> 00:23:59,491
He's the one that was charged.
395
00:23:59,492 --> 00:24:01,537
- But acquitted twice.
- Acquitted twice.
396
00:24:01,538 --> 00:24:05,798
And so, the case is still open today.
397
00:24:07,941 --> 00:24:10,558
Amy: There was a deal,
and it went wrong.
398
00:24:10,559 --> 00:24:14,099
There are four men involved.
399
00:24:15,019 --> 00:24:18,259
I did hear, um, like...
400
00:24:18,585 --> 00:24:20,513
Conspiracy [Bleep].
401
00:24:20,514 --> 00:24:22,956
Like, a cover-up.
402
00:24:22,957 --> 00:24:25,513
These men had marks on them.
403
00:24:25,514 --> 00:24:27,420
Scratches and...
404
00:24:27,421 --> 00:24:33,321
I just hear men talking to each other
about making sure that it's done.
405
00:24:34,561 --> 00:24:38,461
Not everyone was supposed to die.
406
00:24:42,035 --> 00:24:45,481
Now that I know that Reverend Kelly went
on trial for the Villisca Ax Murders.
407
00:24:45,482 --> 00:24:48,532
I'm meeting a crime historian
who is going to explain to me why
408
00:24:48,533 --> 00:24:54,293
there was no justice for the
victims of this brutal crime.
409
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,718
This was the room where
Reverend Kelly stood
410
00:24:59,719 --> 00:25:02,488
trial twice for the Villisca Ax Murders.
411
00:25:02,489 --> 00:25:05,893
- So, what happened with the first trial?
- The first trial ended in a hung jury.
412
00:25:05,894 --> 00:25:07,472
So, what went wrong?
413
00:25:07,473 --> 00:25:09,662
The state had a pretty strong case.
414
00:25:09,663 --> 00:25:12,965
There was, of course,
a confession by Kelly.
415
00:25:12,966 --> 00:25:15,598
- This is it?
- Yes.
416
00:25:15,599 --> 00:25:17,084
What was he saying?
417
00:25:17,085 --> 00:25:19,499
He heard the voice of God.
418
00:25:19,500 --> 00:25:23,088
Telling him to slay utterly,
and it went on in this vein.
419
00:25:23,089 --> 00:25:24,949
Wow.
420
00:25:25,035 --> 00:25:27,047
What other evidence did
they have against him?
421
00:25:27,048 --> 00:25:29,382
They had what was
called the bloody shirt.
422
00:25:29,383 --> 00:25:31,596
A couple of days after the murders,
423
00:25:31,597 --> 00:25:35,080
he took one of these white shirts
to the laundry in Council Bluffs.
424
00:25:35,081 --> 00:25:36,489
We have a confession.
425
00:25:36,490 --> 00:25:39,845
We have two credible witnesses
who say he talked about the murders
426
00:25:39,846 --> 00:25:42,472
before the bodies were
even found, on the train.
427
00:25:42,473 --> 00:25:44,439
We've got a bloody T-shirt.
428
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,682
To me, it sounds like
a pretty decent case.
429
00:25:46,683 --> 00:25:47,959
So, what went wrong?
430
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,274
Kelly was a pathetic figure.
431
00:25:51,275 --> 00:25:54,704
He was a very small fellow
and he was a minister.
432
00:25:54,705 --> 00:25:58,066
This is the Bible Belt
after all, and uh...
433
00:25:58,067 --> 00:26:01,415
Ministers don't go around
killing kids with an ax.
434
00:26:01,416 --> 00:26:03,736
So now, what went wrong
on the second trial?
435
00:26:03,737 --> 00:26:08,520
The second trial was just, essentially, a
rerun that was done rather halfheartedly.
436
00:26:08,521 --> 00:26:14,421
The prosecution, in fact, did not even
use the confession in the second trial.
437
00:26:15,899 --> 00:26:21,719
One of these men was really
cool with doing this torturing.
438
00:26:26,905 --> 00:26:28,539
He's a little guy.
439
00:26:28,540 --> 00:26:32,368
Probably my height,
but really thin, pale.
440
00:26:32,369 --> 00:26:35,549
Uh, his face is weird.
441
00:26:36,835 --> 00:26:40,255
He's a little crazy dude.
442
00:26:45,222 --> 00:26:49,622
During my walk, I saw a group of
men conspiring to commit murder.
443
00:26:49,623 --> 00:26:52,553
I'm having a sketch artist
draw one of the killers.
444
00:26:52,554 --> 00:26:56,664
He had a very oval kind
of shape to his head.
445
00:26:56,665 --> 00:26:59,485
He was very thin.
446
00:26:59,722 --> 00:27:03,971
His hair, definitely,
was dark and greasy.
447
00:27:03,972 --> 00:27:06,327
Next, I had him sketch the angry woman
448
00:27:06,328 --> 00:27:08,980
screaming at a living
man in the other house.
449
00:27:08,981 --> 00:27:13,977
And there's a bed, and
there was a person sleeping.
450
00:27:13,978 --> 00:27:16,678
And this lady...
451
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,336
Was at the end of the bed.
452
00:27:20,337 --> 00:27:23,457
And her face is rage.
453
00:27:23,828 --> 00:27:26,614
Is this what you saw?
454
00:27:26,615 --> 00:27:28,475
Yes.
455
00:27:33,957 --> 00:27:36,177
[Whispers]
456
00:27:44,940 --> 00:27:46,620
_.
457
00:27:51,686 --> 00:27:54,763
Steve: Now that Amy and I have
completed our investigations.
458
00:27:54,764 --> 00:27:59,336
We're ready to reveal our findings to each
other and our clients for the first time.
459
00:27:59,337 --> 00:28:02,853
Well, Amy, this is an unusual case
for both of us, because we both had a
460
00:28:02,854 --> 00:28:06,152
little bit of knowledge of the tragedy
that had happened in this house.
461
00:28:06,153 --> 00:28:09,889
Now, what you don't know is that
we were actually called in by John.
462
00:28:09,890 --> 00:28:15,790
Now, John's a tour guide here.
He actually lives in that house.
463
00:28:16,099 --> 00:28:21,206
He thinks something may have followed
him home, and it's terrorizing his family.
464
00:28:21,207 --> 00:28:26,672
Now Kristy here works as a tour guide, as
well, and she's terrified in that house.
465
00:28:26,673 --> 00:28:30,777
She doesn't want to leave, but she's
afraid to come into this house and work.
466
00:28:30,778 --> 00:28:33,317
Now, I'm curious, Amy,
coming into this case,
467
00:28:33,318 --> 00:28:35,838
how much did you know
about what took place here?
468
00:28:35,839 --> 00:28:40,351
Amy: I knew that there was a mass
murder that had been committed here.
469
00:28:40,352 --> 00:28:43,687
Of a family, two children were visiting.
470
00:28:43,688 --> 00:28:47,519
That it occurred at night,
that it was done with an ax.
471
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,433
And that's about it.
472
00:28:49,434 --> 00:28:50,596
Okay.
473
00:28:50,597 --> 00:28:55,970
So, with that, I'm gonna turn it over to
Amy, and she can tell us about her walk.
474
00:28:55,971 --> 00:28:59,304
So this walk, for me, was
absolutely overwhelming.
475
00:28:59,305 --> 00:29:04,976
Like, I could not believe that
pretty much everybody is still here.
476
00:29:04,977 --> 00:29:10,877
And when I showed up on the
location, I felt a lot of pain.
477
00:29:11,180 --> 00:29:16,678
Like, having a hard time
breathing and severe back pain.
478
00:29:16,679 --> 00:29:20,280
John, you had mentioned to me about
headaches and pain you go through.
479
00:29:20,281 --> 00:29:22,971
John: Being in the house,
certain places, certain times,
480
00:29:22,972 --> 00:29:26,308
extreme nausea, neck pain, back pain.
481
00:29:26,309 --> 00:29:28,159
Come out of the house, completely fine.
482
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:29,845
Yeah, mm-hmm.
483
00:29:29,846 --> 00:29:31,921
Kristy: I have trouble
breathing sometimes.
484
00:29:31,922 --> 00:29:36,241
It feels like someone's
standing on your chest.
485
00:29:36,242 --> 00:29:38,977
One of the strongest
entities I met was this woman.
486
00:29:38,978 --> 00:29:44,318
She's pretty short, pale,
and she was very spiteful.
487
00:29:44,688 --> 00:29:48,408
Angry, and she made me feel...
488
00:29:48,809 --> 00:29:51,569
The initial pain.
489
00:29:52,288 --> 00:29:56,170
The other thing is, she would
go back and forth about blame.
490
00:29:56,171 --> 00:30:01,934
She feels responsible because she
either let someone in or let them stay.
491
00:30:01,935 --> 00:30:07,835
But I hear from someone else that
it's actually her husband's fault.
492
00:30:08,043 --> 00:30:10,554
- Now, was she one of the murder victims?
- Yes.
493
00:30:10,555 --> 00:30:11,953
- She was?
- Yes.
494
00:30:11,954 --> 00:30:14,563
And there's only one woman
that was murdered in this house.
495
00:30:14,564 --> 00:30:16,232
This is Sarah Moore.
496
00:30:16,233 --> 00:30:20,244
- That look like who you might've seen?
- Yes. Oh, yes.
497
00:30:20,245 --> 00:30:23,234
She lived here with her
husband and four kids.
498
00:30:23,235 --> 00:30:25,557
There was Herman, who was 11.
499
00:30:25,558 --> 00:30:27,555
There was Katherine, who was 10.
500
00:30:27,556 --> 00:30:30,438
And then they had two
other kids, Boyd and Paul.
501
00:30:30,439 --> 00:30:32,195
Seven and five.
502
00:30:32,196 --> 00:30:35,147
Now, you mentioned the
woman you saw was angry.
503
00:30:35,148 --> 00:30:36,201
Yes.
504
00:30:36,202 --> 00:30:38,745
That's interesting because
Sarah Moore was the only
505
00:30:38,746 --> 00:30:41,462
one that was hit with
the sharp end of the ax.
506
00:30:41,463 --> 00:30:43,681
The rest of them were hit
with the back end of the ax.
507
00:30:43,682 --> 00:30:45,381
Really?
508
00:30:45,382 --> 00:30:47,806
So, John, how do you feel
knowing that one of the murder
509
00:30:47,807 --> 00:30:50,170
victims is actually here in
the house, and she's pissed?
510
00:30:50,171 --> 00:30:51,850
John: Definitely sad.
511
00:30:51,851 --> 00:30:55,991
You know, nobody wants anybody stuck.
512
00:31:00,524 --> 00:31:02,163
What else?
513
00:31:02,164 --> 00:31:06,324
In the downstairs
bedroom there's two girls,
514
00:31:06,325 --> 00:31:12,225
but there was one girl, specifically,
who enjoys interacting with the living.
515
00:31:12,318 --> 00:31:14,949
She tries to get attention.
516
00:31:14,950 --> 00:31:17,849
She tries to talk to people...
517
00:31:17,850 --> 00:31:21,090
And she likes to growl.
518
00:31:23,081 --> 00:31:27,096
The growling that I've heard
is in that exact bedroom.
519
00:31:27,097 --> 00:31:32,829
It was a growl, gasp, moan,
kind of combined all together.
520
00:31:32,830 --> 00:31:35,263
You know that there were the
two visiting Stillinger kids?
521
00:31:35,264 --> 00:31:36,407
- Yes.
- All right.
522
00:31:36,408 --> 00:31:40,012
Those were the two girls that were
murdered in the downstairs bedroom.
523
00:31:40,013 --> 00:31:42,939
This is Lena, who was 11.
524
00:31:42,940 --> 00:31:46,436
This is Ina. She was 8 years old.
525
00:31:46,437 --> 00:31:49,617
Which one do you think
might be the one interacting?
526
00:31:49,618 --> 00:31:51,516
I think it's her.
527
00:31:51,517 --> 00:31:53,605
- Lena?
- Yeah.
528
00:31:53,606 --> 00:31:59,043
She's the most active one, and
wants feedback and reactions.
529
00:31:59,044 --> 00:32:01,984
She wants attention.
530
00:32:05,354 --> 00:32:07,914
So, as far as what
happened, it was really hard
531
00:32:07,915 --> 00:32:12,056
to piece together what
I think are the facts.
532
00:32:12,057 --> 00:32:15,107
There was a lot of chaos going on.
533
00:32:15,108 --> 00:32:19,178
Like, I did hear a man saying that
it's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay.
534
00:32:19,179 --> 00:32:23,313
I heard someone else say,
there's no place to run.
535
00:32:23,314 --> 00:32:25,550
And then, I saw her...
536
00:32:25,551 --> 00:32:29,795
Getting dragged across
the room by her leg.
537
00:32:29,796 --> 00:32:33,968
And she had this confused look on
her face, because she knew this man.
538
00:32:33,969 --> 00:32:38,796
And then I heard a male say,
make sure they're all dead.
539
00:32:38,797 --> 00:32:42,937
When I went upstairs,
I saw the woman, Sarah.
540
00:32:42,938 --> 00:32:47,162
She was huddled in the
corner, holding a small child,
541
00:32:47,163 --> 00:32:50,416
and she was screaming, why
aren't you doing anything?
542
00:32:50,417 --> 00:32:51,951
How can you let them do this?
543
00:32:51,952 --> 00:32:55,052
You know. Aren't they your friends?
544
00:32:55,053 --> 00:32:57,922
And the killer was talking
about how something went wrong.
545
00:32:57,923 --> 00:33:00,513
It wasn't supposed to happen like this.
546
00:33:00,514 --> 00:33:05,306
His meaning was that not everybody
in the house was supposed to die.
547
00:33:05,307 --> 00:33:10,694
But something went wrong, a deal went
wrong, and this was focused on revenge.
548
00:33:10,695 --> 00:33:15,375
And I believe there
were four men involved.
549
00:33:15,397 --> 00:33:19,921
She amazes me one case after the next I
can tell you I'm always blown away by her.
550
00:33:19,922 --> 00:33:22,245
But I got to respectfully
disagree with her.
551
00:33:22,246 --> 00:33:24,349
I don't see it happening that way.
552
00:33:24,350 --> 00:33:26,482
There were four suspects, though.
553
00:33:26,483 --> 00:33:27,876
Interesting.
554
00:33:27,877 --> 00:33:31,161
First one was a guy
that was Moore's boss.
555
00:33:31,162 --> 00:33:33,783
This guy, F.F. Jones.
556
00:33:33,784 --> 00:33:36,201
When Moore left the business...
557
00:33:36,202 --> 00:33:39,862
He actually took the biggest account
that they had and took it with them.
558
00:33:39,863 --> 00:33:41,564
Yeah. I think that's it.
559
00:33:41,565 --> 00:33:47,064
Also, there was a rumor that J.B. Moore was
having an affair with his daughter-in-law.
560
00:33:47,065 --> 00:33:49,172
Oh, that's why.
561
00:33:49,173 --> 00:33:52,319
But you don't kill six
children over an affair.
562
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,385
The second major suspect was
a guy named Blackie Mansfield.
563
00:33:56,386 --> 00:33:59,815
It was said that F.F. Jones
hired him to kill the family.
564
00:33:59,816 --> 00:34:03,719
But, he had an alibi and he couldn't
have been in Villisca at the time.
565
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,008
So, it was dismissed.
566
00:34:06,009 --> 00:34:10,296
Then you've got Henry Lee
Moore, no relation to the family.
567
00:34:10,297 --> 00:34:15,755
He was a drifter, but nobody could place
him in Villisca the night of the homicide.
568
00:34:15,756 --> 00:34:20,256
Which brings us to
reverend George Kelly.
569
00:34:21,849 --> 00:34:24,673
This guy was in town the
night of the homicides.
570
00:34:24,674 --> 00:34:28,610
He attended the church that the
entire Moore family was at that night.
571
00:34:28,611 --> 00:34:31,179
He's put on trial twice.
572
00:34:31,180 --> 00:34:33,349
First trial was a hung jury.
573
00:34:33,350 --> 00:34:35,647
Second time, he was acquitted.
574
00:34:35,648 --> 00:34:38,502
Now, one of the things
they had on him...
575
00:34:38,503 --> 00:34:41,170
The next morning he gets on the
train at 5:30 in the morning,
576
00:34:41,171 --> 00:34:44,103
and he discusses the murder
that took place at this house.
577
00:34:44,104 --> 00:34:47,337
The bodies weren't discovered
until 7:00 in the morning.
578
00:34:47,338 --> 00:34:49,301
So, how would he know about that?
579
00:34:49,302 --> 00:34:53,608
Second this is, a few days later, he drops
off a bloody T-shirt to a dry cleaner.
580
00:34:53,609 --> 00:34:57,329
And he wrote out a confession.
581
00:34:58,173 --> 00:35:00,850
He puts himself here. Says
he's killed the Moores.
582
00:35:00,851 --> 00:35:02,628
Said God made him do it.
583
00:35:02,629 --> 00:35:08,529
Well, one of the men who was active
in the murders, I met in the barn.
584
00:35:09,031 --> 00:35:12,421
He was short, very thin and pale.
585
00:35:12,422 --> 00:35:16,696
He really enjoyed, like, torturing them.
586
00:35:16,697 --> 00:35:22,597
I got a really quick look at
him, but I did a sketch anyway.
587
00:35:25,944 --> 00:35:27,804
Wow.
588
00:35:33,870 --> 00:35:35,831
Take a look at that.
589
00:35:35,832 --> 00:35:37,215
Wow.
590
00:35:37,216 --> 00:35:42,016
Yeah, that definitely
resembles Reverend Kelly.
591
00:35:42,424 --> 00:35:46,346
Oh, yeah. It looks like the same man.
592
00:35:46,347 --> 00:35:50,667
Amy, what do you think? Is this Kelly?
593
00:35:51,625 --> 00:35:53,773
- Yes.
- Okay.
594
00:35:53,774 --> 00:35:55,718
But he's not the only one.
595
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,767
He's just one of 'em.
596
00:35:57,768 --> 00:35:59,695
I agree with her.
597
00:35:59,696 --> 00:36:00,557
Okay.
598
00:36:00,558 --> 00:36:04,182
How did one person control
eight people, and nobody got out?
599
00:36:04,183 --> 00:36:05,845
Mm-hmm.
600
00:36:05,846 --> 00:36:09,539
Anything's possible. I'd never
throw anything off the table.
601
00:36:09,540 --> 00:36:14,603
My experience working homicide tells me
serial killers almost always act alone.
602
00:36:14,604 --> 00:36:18,533
But I've worked with Amy long enough to
know that she see things no one else has.
603
00:36:18,534 --> 00:36:21,502
And if she thinks more than
one man committed those murders,
604
00:36:21,503 --> 00:36:25,196
I can't find any evidence to
prove or disprove her theory.
605
00:36:25,197 --> 00:36:29,521
I am glad that we both agree that this
scumbag was involved in the homicide.
606
00:36:29,522 --> 00:36:32,323
Without a doubt, yeah.
607
00:36:32,324 --> 00:36:35,460
Well, we didn't just come here to
investigate what might've happened here.
608
00:36:35,461 --> 00:36:40,111
But also, he's having issues in his
house, which you also walked, right?
609
00:36:40,112 --> 00:36:41,684
- Yes.
- Okay.
610
00:36:41,685 --> 00:36:44,427
When I was over there, I...
611
00:36:44,428 --> 00:36:49,648
Saw that most of the
family go hang out in there.
612
00:36:49,837 --> 00:36:52,156
It was nice downstairs.
613
00:36:52,157 --> 00:36:57,836
Then, I'm, like, walking up the
stairs and almost when you hit...
614
00:36:57,837 --> 00:37:01,644
The floor, it was just complete anger.
615
00:37:01,645 --> 00:37:03,865
With her.
616
00:37:06,204 --> 00:37:10,415
If I were you, I would be
very careful in this house.
617
00:37:10,416 --> 00:37:13,416
It's pretty intense.
618
00:37:19,663 --> 00:37:21,883
[Whispers]
619
00:37:27,233 --> 00:37:32,856
Then, I'm, like, walking up the
stairs and almost when you hit...
620
00:37:32,857 --> 00:37:36,610
The floor, it was just complete anger.
621
00:37:36,611 --> 00:37:38,831
With her.
622
00:37:39,384 --> 00:37:44,904
If I were you, I would be
very careful in this house.
623
00:37:46,923 --> 00:37:52,549
John: The whole downstairs has always
seemed very peaceful and welcoming.
624
00:37:52,550 --> 00:37:56,021
But the upstairs has always
been full of footsteps and
625
00:37:56,022 --> 00:37:59,036
doors opening and
closing and noises and...
626
00:37:59,037 --> 00:38:03,409
Well, it was so bad he moved his
family from upstairs to downstairs.
627
00:38:03,410 --> 00:38:08,990
When I saw her upstairs,
she's, like, in a blind rage.
628
00:38:09,142 --> 00:38:12,408
She makes it a point to
haunt the living people.
629
00:38:12,409 --> 00:38:16,203
She said that the living
people up there deserve it.
630
00:38:16,204 --> 00:38:21,159
I got that she does direct
her anger towards a male.
631
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:26,259
And it didn't make sense, because
she blames him for what happened.
632
00:38:26,260 --> 00:38:32,121
Well, John admitted to me that he was
pretty much obsessed about this case.
633
00:38:32,122 --> 00:38:36,165
For me, I felt a genuine
love for this family.
634
00:38:36,166 --> 00:38:40,018
And I thought if I
find out who did this,
635
00:38:40,019 --> 00:38:43,565
then maybe they can be
at peace and be happy.
636
00:38:43,566 --> 00:38:48,209
I felt like I was called to do
that, like I had to figure out...
637
00:38:48,210 --> 00:38:52,650
In my head, who did it, for the family.
638
00:38:56,444 --> 00:38:59,744
So I did a sketch of...
639
00:39:00,556 --> 00:39:03,891
A situation that I
saw at the other house.
640
00:39:03,892 --> 00:39:06,530
And it was of Sarah...
641
00:39:06,531 --> 00:39:08,931
Going crazy.
642
00:39:09,029 --> 00:39:11,429
And yelling.
643
00:39:25,438 --> 00:39:28,540
Looks like she's wigging out.
644
00:39:28,541 --> 00:39:31,321
It's not a good feeling to...
645
00:39:31,322 --> 00:39:35,451
Do something you love, and
trying to do it in a good way.
646
00:39:35,452 --> 00:39:38,932
And have that person angry.
647
00:39:41,984 --> 00:39:45,784
Well, this was a pretty
intense case for both Amy and I.
648
00:39:45,785 --> 00:39:49,001
And you've got to be relieved that
you finally know what's going on here.
649
00:39:49,002 --> 00:39:50,795
Mm-hmm.
650
00:39:50,796 --> 00:39:54,233
But, the big question is, can you
guys live and work here safely?
651
00:39:54,234 --> 00:40:00,134
For that, I'm gonna turn it over to Amy
and see if she can come up with an answer.
652
00:40:00,951 --> 00:40:05,571
What happened here is
absolutely horrendous.
653
00:40:06,208 --> 00:40:07,698
Mm-hmm.
654
00:40:07,699 --> 00:40:12,559
These people, from the
day that this happened.
655
00:40:12,678 --> 00:40:16,096
Have never had any kind of peace.
656
00:40:16,097 --> 00:40:19,697
Not only are they reliving...
657
00:40:21,356 --> 00:40:23,835
What happened to them constantly.
658
00:40:23,836 --> 00:40:26,852
They're also seeing other
people coming and going,
659
00:40:26,853 --> 00:40:30,734
and it's made to be a sideshow.
660
00:40:30,735 --> 00:40:33,439
And it needs to stop.
661
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,769
Because if this continues
to stay a tourist attraction,
662
00:40:36,770 --> 00:40:40,513
I don't think they're
gonna find any peace.
663
00:40:40,514 --> 00:40:42,795
I did speak with the owner, Martha.
664
00:40:42,796 --> 00:40:45,267
And I can tell you after
speaking with her that,
665
00:40:45,268 --> 00:40:48,471
she is not gonna change the
way things are done here.
666
00:40:48,472 --> 00:40:52,347
So, John, would you ever consider
talking to the owner and asking to change,
667
00:40:52,348 --> 00:40:54,208
or do you think it'd be a waste of time?
668
00:40:54,209 --> 00:40:56,909
We don't want it to be disrespectful.
669
00:40:56,910 --> 00:40:59,655
I know Martha's intentions are right on.
670
00:40:59,656 --> 00:41:02,498
She doesn't want it to be disrespectful.
671
00:41:02,499 --> 00:41:07,923
And the way I give my tours, I need
to just delve on the history, you know?
672
00:41:07,924 --> 00:41:11,988
We want to honor the family
and we want to do good.
673
00:41:11,989 --> 00:41:14,956
She had a message to
get through to you on how
674
00:41:14,957 --> 00:41:17,340
to change things, and
you've gotten that.
675
00:41:17,341 --> 00:41:21,625
And that is what's going
to give this family peace.
676
00:41:21,626 --> 00:41:24,566
So you were chosen.
677
00:41:24,824 --> 00:41:28,157
- How does that make you feel?
- Really shocked.
678
00:41:28,158 --> 00:41:34,058
There's a reason I ended up
here, and I never understood why.
679
00:41:34,174 --> 00:41:38,861
I know, John, that you're not in
a position to make decisions here...
680
00:41:38,862 --> 00:41:42,655
On changing things, but are
you gonna do what you can?
681
00:41:42,656 --> 00:41:46,433
Absolutely. We all want
the best for them here.
682
00:41:46,434 --> 00:41:51,613
Kristy: It'd be nice to enter the
house and not be nervous and scared.
683
00:41:51,614 --> 00:41:54,363
Amy: I wish the tours
could stop completely.
684
00:41:54,364 --> 00:41:57,168
But I'm encouraged that
John and Kristy promise
685
00:41:57,169 --> 00:42:00,372
to limit the tours to
the history of the house.
686
00:42:00,373 --> 00:42:04,242
It seems to be a story that the
dead in this place want told.
687
00:42:04,243 --> 00:42:08,819
And it should help bring
them peace, at least for now.
688
00:42:08,820 --> 00:42:10,500
_.
689
00:42:14,117 --> 00:42:15,792
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690
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