Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000
2
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000
3
00:00:09,052 --> 00:00:11,272
[Film reel clacking]
4
00:00:11,272 --> 00:00:13,100
[Warbling]
5
00:00:15,885 --> 00:00:25,329
♪♪
6
00:00:25,329 --> 00:00:29,159
Gaynor: Um, I don't think I f--
really feel any anger.
7
00:00:29,159 --> 00:00:33,729
You know, what I feel
is regret at how, um...
8
00:00:33,729 --> 00:00:36,601
One personal story
that I'll tell you is,
9
00:00:36,601 --> 00:00:38,734
a very good friend -- probably
one of my best friends --
10
00:00:38,734 --> 00:00:41,258
he was -- uh,
had moved to Toronto,
11
00:00:41,258 --> 00:00:42,564
and we were always in touch.
12
00:00:42,564 --> 00:00:44,044
We got together
from time to time.
13
00:00:44,044 --> 00:00:45,784
And then, as time goes on,
your kind of --
14
00:00:45,784 --> 00:00:48,396
you know, your context
kind of broadens,
15
00:00:48,396 --> 00:00:50,876
and you don't see them as much.
16
00:00:50,876 --> 00:00:54,750
And one night, um,
my phone rang,
17
00:00:54,750 --> 00:00:56,882
and it was m-my friend.
18
00:00:56,882 --> 00:00:59,885
And there --there was a lot
of people in my apartment,
19
00:00:59,885 --> 00:01:01,626
and he just called to say hi.
20
00:01:01,626 --> 00:01:03,933
And, basically, I said,
"Hi, great to hear from you."
21
00:01:03,933 --> 00:01:07,458
And I said, uh, "Wow, like,
are you still alive?"
22
00:01:07,458 --> 00:01:11,419
Meaning, "I haven't heard
from you in a while,
23
00:01:11,419 --> 00:01:13,116
and I can't
talk to you right now
24
00:01:13,116 --> 00:01:14,552
because there's a bunch
of people here.
25
00:01:14,552 --> 00:01:17,077
So, can I call you back?"
And he said, "Sure."
26
00:01:17,077 --> 00:01:18,948
So I hung up.
27
00:01:18,948 --> 00:01:20,602
I didn't call him back.
28
00:01:20,602 --> 00:01:23,039
And about a week later,
I heard that he had died,
29
00:01:23,039 --> 00:01:26,651
and I realized that
he was calling to say goodbye.
30
00:01:26,651 --> 00:01:28,914
[Laughs softly]
And I had -- I said,
31
00:01:28,914 --> 00:01:30,568
"Are you still alive?"
32
00:01:30,568 --> 00:01:32,179
Not even knowing
that he was sick.
33
00:01:32,179 --> 00:01:34,181
Like, I didn't know
that he had AIDS.
34
00:01:34,181 --> 00:01:36,966
Uh, so...
35
00:01:36,966 --> 00:01:38,533
that's just, like,
a personal instance,
36
00:01:38,533 --> 00:01:41,318
but it -- it still really
haunts me, actually.
37
00:01:41,318 --> 00:01:46,541
♪♪
38
00:01:46,541 --> 00:01:51,720
♪♪
39
00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:53,417
[Birds chirping]
40
00:01:53,417 --> 00:01:56,594
♪♪
41
00:01:56,594 --> 00:01:59,771
[Chirping travels
left to right]
42
00:01:59,771 --> 00:02:02,992
[Airplane engine fades in]
43
00:02:02,992 --> 00:02:05,212
[Engine roaring]
44
00:02:05,212 --> 00:02:06,952
[Sarah Vaughan's "Fever
[Adam Freeland Remix]" plays]
45
00:02:06,952 --> 00:02:08,737
Bergman:
"Patient Zero" is the name
46
00:02:08,737 --> 00:02:11,218
doctors and the medical
detectives used
47
00:02:11,218 --> 00:02:13,916
to describe this man --
the airline steward --
48
00:02:13,916 --> 00:02:15,396
to protect his identity.
49
00:02:15,396 --> 00:02:18,050
I have spoken
of Patient Zero
50
00:02:18,050 --> 00:02:21,010
to people who weren't around
at that time,
51
00:02:21,010 --> 00:02:23,491
and when they realized that --
who I'm talking about
52
00:02:23,491 --> 00:02:25,014
and that I actually
knew that person
53
00:02:25,014 --> 00:02:27,016
and that that was a --
a real person
54
00:02:27,016 --> 00:02:29,671
rather than, you know,
somebody eight foot tall
55
00:02:29,671 --> 00:02:31,803
dripping blood from the mouth,
56
00:02:31,803 --> 00:02:32,935
[Laughs]
I-It was -- Yeah.
57
00:02:32,935 --> 00:02:34,284
It's as if I'm talking about
58
00:02:34,284 --> 00:02:35,938
having known
Joan of Arc personally.
59
00:02:35,938 --> 00:02:37,679
Reporter 1:
The man was Gaétan Dugas,
60
00:02:37,679 --> 00:02:40,682
a 32-year-old
Air Canada steward from Quebec
61
00:02:40,682 --> 00:02:42,379
who died in 1984.
62
00:02:42,379 --> 00:02:44,686
None of the straight people
that I've talked to kn--
63
00:02:44,686 --> 00:02:46,296
even know what Patient Zero was.
64
00:02:46,296 --> 00:02:47,863
They didn't know
who Patient Zero was
65
00:02:47,863 --> 00:02:49,517
or what it was,
66
00:02:49,517 --> 00:02:51,040
which is not the case
with gay people.
67
00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,085
I mean, if you're gay,
you know Patient Zero.
68
00:02:53,085 --> 00:02:54,652
Patient Zero was a man,
69
00:02:54,652 --> 00:02:56,654
the central victim,
and victimizer.
70
00:02:56,654 --> 00:02:58,917
The most widespread part
71
00:02:58,917 --> 00:03:01,616
is the idea that
this is the man
72
00:03:01,616 --> 00:03:04,009
who introduced AIDS
to North America.
73
00:03:04,009 --> 00:03:05,141
Shilts: I don't know whether
he actually brought
74
00:03:05,141 --> 00:03:06,577
the epidemic to the country,
75
00:03:06,577 --> 00:03:08,318
but he certainly was the person
76
00:03:08,318 --> 00:03:10,190
who spread it from one end
of the country to the other.
77
00:03:10,190 --> 00:03:12,279
There is just so much wrong
78
00:03:12,279 --> 00:03:15,630
about the concept
of a "patient zero."
79
00:03:16,805 --> 00:03:19,851
The second part is that
80
00:03:19,851 --> 00:03:22,202
not only did he
cause the epidemic
81
00:03:22,202 --> 00:03:23,812
by being the first case,
82
00:03:23,812 --> 00:03:26,815
but he was somehow
doing it deliberately --
83
00:03:26,815 --> 00:03:31,428
that he was trying to spread
his infection far and wide
84
00:03:31,428 --> 00:03:33,387
across the United States
and beyond.
85
00:03:33,387 --> 00:03:35,954
Reporter 1: He reportedly
crisscrossed North America,
86
00:03:35,954 --> 00:03:38,305
feeding an enormous
homosexual appetite
87
00:03:38,305 --> 00:03:40,045
with hundreds of liaisons.
88
00:03:40,045 --> 00:03:44,615
This, um, sort of
golden man-child...
89
00:03:44,615 --> 00:03:47,357
[Chuckles]
...if you will.
90
00:03:47,357 --> 00:03:50,969
A very handsome airline steward.
91
00:03:50,969 --> 00:03:54,712
And, suddenly, to die
on the front page like that...
92
00:03:54,712 --> 00:03:56,584
Dugas's family would only say
93
00:03:56,584 --> 00:03:58,760
that parts of the story
are false,
94
00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:00,979
and that only God
knows the truth.
95
00:04:00,979 --> 00:04:03,852
It's funny to say --
Gaétan always used to say to me,
96
00:04:03,852 --> 00:04:07,029
"One day, I'll be a star."
[Laughs]
97
00:04:07,029 --> 00:04:09,727
Well, [Laughs] he might be
a star now, you know?
98
00:04:09,727 --> 00:04:11,773
Like, he go--
I mean, he was known.
99
00:04:11,773 --> 00:04:13,078
Like, people knew him,
100
00:04:13,078 --> 00:04:14,645
but I don't think
that's what he meant
101
00:04:14,645 --> 00:04:17,431
when he said, "One day,
I'll be a star, darling."
102
00:04:17,431 --> 00:04:18,606
Okay.
103
00:04:18,606 --> 00:04:20,477
♪♪
104
00:04:20,477 --> 00:04:23,045
Woman: ♪ F-F-Fever ♪
105
00:04:23,045 --> 00:04:25,047
Man: The chair is yours.
106
00:04:25,047 --> 00:04:27,049
[Echoing]
The chair is yours.
107
00:04:27,049 --> 00:04:28,746
The chair is yours.
108
00:04:28,746 --> 00:04:30,574
♪ Feel the burn ♪
109
00:04:30,574 --> 00:04:32,446
♪ Feel the burn ♪
110
00:04:32,446 --> 00:04:34,361
♪ Feel the burn ♪
111
00:04:34,361 --> 00:04:37,407
♪♪
112
00:04:37,407 --> 00:04:39,757
♪ Fever, fever, fever,
fever, feeeeever ♪
113
00:04:39,757 --> 00:04:41,846
♪ Feel the burn ♪
114
00:04:41,846 --> 00:04:44,675
♪ Feel the burn ♪
♪ Feel the burn ♪
115
00:04:44,675 --> 00:04:47,765
♪ Fever, fever, fever,
fever, feeeeever ♪
116
00:04:49,158 --> 00:04:50,290
I'm Ray Redford.
117
00:04:50,290 --> 00:04:52,596
I was a friend of Gaétan's.
118
00:04:52,596 --> 00:04:54,903
"Gaétan was something different.
119
00:04:54,903 --> 00:04:56,861
A man on the glittering edge.
120
00:04:56,861 --> 00:05:01,431
Flamboyantly and defiantly
and happily gay,
121
00:05:01,431 --> 00:05:05,087
seemingly unconcerned
about what others thought."
122
00:05:05,087 --> 00:05:07,481
♪ Moon lights up the night ♪
123
00:05:07,481 --> 00:05:09,396
♪ Burning, burning, burning ♪
124
00:05:09,396 --> 00:05:12,442
♪ I light up
when you call my name ♪
125
00:05:12,442 --> 00:05:14,792
♪ Know I'm gonna
treat you right ♪
126
00:05:14,792 --> 00:05:16,490
♪ You give me fever ♪
127
00:05:16,490 --> 00:05:20,189
My name is Gaétane,
with a "E" at the end.
128
00:05:20,189 --> 00:05:23,410
Makes me a little bit
different w-- than Gaétan.
129
00:05:23,410 --> 00:05:26,238
Well, I grew up in Montreal,
and he grew up in Quebec City.
130
00:05:26,238 --> 00:05:28,066
So we, um --
131
00:05:28,066 --> 00:05:31,766
we had the same French humor,
[Laughs] if you want.
132
00:05:31,766 --> 00:05:34,856
Eh, you know, I s--
We always blamed the other one
133
00:05:34,856 --> 00:05:37,032
because we're both blonde.
134
00:05:37,032 --> 00:05:39,339
[Laughs] And which?
Gaétan or Gaétane?
135
00:05:39,339 --> 00:05:40,775
No, no, no, no.
I say, "Gaétane."
136
00:05:40,775 --> 00:05:43,604
[Speaking French]
137
00:05:43,604 --> 00:05:44,953
[Laughs]
138
00:05:44,953 --> 00:05:46,650
He was adopted,
139
00:05:46,650 --> 00:05:49,827
and I s-- believe
he had five sisters,
140
00:05:49,827 --> 00:05:51,960
and they just hovered over him.
141
00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:53,048
They just love him.
142
00:05:53,048 --> 00:05:54,354
But that's about the extent
143
00:05:54,354 --> 00:05:56,747
of the family I know.
144
00:05:56,747 --> 00:05:59,097
Wadden: Whatever, uh,
prejudice I had
145
00:05:59,097 --> 00:06:00,838
going into the house --
you know, expecting,
146
00:06:00,838 --> 00:06:03,537
"Who are these people
to have raised this monster?" --
147
00:06:03,537 --> 00:06:06,975
w-was, uh, sort of, uh,
immediately shredded
148
00:06:06,975 --> 00:06:09,325
when I caught sight
of the fridge door
149
00:06:09,325 --> 00:06:11,936
and this prayer card
for Gaétan.
150
00:06:11,936 --> 00:06:14,286
In French, there was,
uh, you know,
151
00:06:14,286 --> 00:06:16,550
"In memory of --
of Gaétan Dugas, uh,
152
00:06:16,550 --> 00:06:17,899
our beloved son."
153
00:06:17,899 --> 00:06:19,944
The love --
There was so much love
154
00:06:19,944 --> 00:06:22,643
in that one little gesture
on the fridge door.
155
00:06:22,643 --> 00:06:24,819
I don't know when he came out
to his family,
156
00:06:24,819 --> 00:06:26,864
but I believe his family knew
for a long time,
157
00:06:26,864 --> 00:06:29,040
and they were very supportive.
158
00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,565
Unfortunately, not all
the men I worked with
159
00:06:31,565 --> 00:06:33,610
had that experience.
160
00:06:33,610 --> 00:06:36,265
Um, at least one supervisor
I worked with
161
00:06:36,265 --> 00:06:37,745
who started
as a flight attendant,
162
00:06:37,745 --> 00:06:39,660
his family disowned him
when he came out,
163
00:06:39,660 --> 00:06:41,139
and he never spoke
to them again.
164
00:06:41,139 --> 00:06:43,098
It's to the best
of my knowledge.
165
00:06:43,098 --> 00:06:47,798
♪♪
166
00:06:47,798 --> 00:06:51,585
Growing up gay in the late '60s,
early '70s was unspeakable.
167
00:06:51,585 --> 00:06:53,587
It was something
you couldn't talk about,
168
00:06:53,587 --> 00:06:55,806
confide even in
your closest friends.
169
00:06:55,806 --> 00:06:57,591
When you live in a culture
that tells you
170
00:06:57,591 --> 00:07:01,464
your very innate self is wrong,
171
00:07:01,464 --> 00:07:03,597
you're a perfect
bullying victim.
172
00:07:03,597 --> 00:07:06,643
Growing up, I had
no idea whatsoever --
173
00:07:06,643 --> 00:07:08,819
a-anything about gayness,
174
00:07:08,819 --> 00:07:10,691
gay people, homosexuals.
175
00:07:10,691 --> 00:07:13,433
If you were a young kid,
even a child --
176
00:07:13,433 --> 00:07:16,348
some people were children --
in, say, the '50s or the '60s --
177
00:07:16,348 --> 00:07:18,263
perhaps before,
but I'm not that old --
178
00:07:18,263 --> 00:07:20,744
and you noticed in yourself,
179
00:07:20,744 --> 00:07:22,311
you know, that you were gay
or were af--
180
00:07:22,311 --> 00:07:24,792
you fearfully suspected it,
181
00:07:24,792 --> 00:07:26,750
there was no place
to find out about it.
182
00:07:26,750 --> 00:07:29,797
It didn't exist in
the popular culture at all.
183
00:07:29,797 --> 00:07:33,670
I never was remotely aware
of being gay.
184
00:07:33,670 --> 00:07:38,762
I had very intense friendships
with other girls,
185
00:07:38,762 --> 00:07:42,331
but I never really put,
you know,
186
00:07:42,331 --> 00:07:44,594
five and five together,
let alone two and two.
187
00:07:44,594 --> 00:07:46,683
You know, growing up
in a -- a, you know --
188
00:07:46,683 --> 00:07:49,643
a Chinese --
old fashioned Chinese family,
189
00:07:49,643 --> 00:07:51,122
you -- you just
didn't talk about it.
190
00:07:51,122 --> 00:07:53,124
You didn't learn about it
or anything like that.
191
00:07:53,124 --> 00:07:55,910
And you like to play,
you know, um, skipping
192
00:07:55,910 --> 00:07:57,868
and jump rope
and things like that
193
00:07:57,868 --> 00:07:59,261
rather than baseball.
194
00:07:59,261 --> 00:08:03,004
When I was probably
eight or nine,
195
00:08:03,004 --> 00:08:05,746
two gay guys moved into our --
onto our street.
196
00:08:05,746 --> 00:08:07,138
They bought a house
and moved onto our street.
197
00:08:07,138 --> 00:08:09,880
And everybody was sort of
giggling about --
198
00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:11,708
One liked to garden
and one liked to paint.
199
00:08:11,708 --> 00:08:14,363
And so, it was one of
those things that was sort of,
200
00:08:14,363 --> 00:08:16,017
you know,
really embedded on my mind
201
00:08:16,017 --> 00:08:18,889
that that was not something
that was a good thing.
202
00:08:18,889 --> 00:08:22,240
I remember looking up
the word "homosexuality,"
203
00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,068
and it said something
about "extreme" --
204
00:08:24,068 --> 00:08:26,375
you know,
"e-e-extreme perversion"
205
00:08:26,375 --> 00:08:28,508
and "depraved" and all that.
206
00:08:28,508 --> 00:08:30,901
But I remember
how thrilled I was
207
00:08:30,901 --> 00:08:32,860
to discover that I existed.
208
00:08:32,860 --> 00:08:35,906
It was really, uh --
It was sort of strange,
209
00:08:35,906 --> 00:08:38,343
where you would gather up
your sense of self-worth
210
00:08:38,343 --> 00:08:40,041
or who and what you were.
211
00:08:40,041 --> 00:08:41,738
And when there were images,
212
00:08:41,738 --> 00:08:44,175
they were really
incredibly negative.
213
00:08:44,175 --> 00:08:46,134
Freeman: I do remember
"Diamonds Are Forever."
214
00:08:46,134 --> 00:08:48,005
I remember seeing that
as a teenager
215
00:08:48,005 --> 00:08:52,009
with my parents
at the musical theater
216
00:08:52,009 --> 00:08:53,968
on Tremont Street in Boston
217
00:08:53,968 --> 00:08:55,926
and being absolutely mortified
218
00:08:55,926 --> 00:08:59,321
by the very creepy
queer villains
219
00:08:59,321 --> 00:09:01,192
and sitting there
with my parents
220
00:09:01,192 --> 00:09:04,718
and listening to people
sort of laugh at the --
221
00:09:04,718 --> 00:09:06,197
at these, uh, --
222
00:09:06,197 --> 00:09:08,069
It -- It was pretty awful.
223
00:09:08,069 --> 00:09:11,289
1967, CBS had a documentary
I remember watching
224
00:09:11,289 --> 00:09:16,643
that was just so homophobic
and hateful and, uh, really...
225
00:09:16,643 --> 00:09:18,949
Narrator:
"The Homosexuals"...
226
00:09:18,949 --> 00:09:22,039
with CBS News correspondent
Mike Wallace.
227
00:09:22,039 --> 00:09:26,000
Americans consider homosexuality
more harmful to society
228
00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,351
than adultery, abortion,
or prostitution.
229
00:09:29,351 --> 00:09:31,527
So, they actually got
a real-life homosexual
230
00:09:31,527 --> 00:09:33,094
to speak on camera,
231
00:09:33,094 --> 00:09:36,140
but they backlit him
and, uh, changed the voice
232
00:09:36,140 --> 00:09:38,665
so that no one would see
who they were.
233
00:09:38,665 --> 00:09:40,797
And so, that was
my first introduction
234
00:09:40,797 --> 00:09:43,017
to know that there were
these strange creatures
235
00:09:43,017 --> 00:09:45,280
called "homosexuals," but they
were obviously so disgusting
236
00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,152
that they could not
possibly appear on television.
237
00:09:48,152 --> 00:09:50,111
Narrator: This man is 27.
238
00:09:50,111 --> 00:09:52,592
He was unable to hold a job
because of his inability
239
00:09:52,592 --> 00:09:55,203
to contain his
homosexual inclinations.
240
00:09:55,203 --> 00:09:58,859
He's been in jail three times
for committing homosexual acts.
241
00:09:58,859 --> 00:10:00,251
If he is arrested once more,
242
00:10:00,251 --> 00:10:02,906
he faces the possibility
of life in prison.
243
00:10:02,906 --> 00:10:05,822
Uh, I know that inside now,
I am sick.
244
00:10:05,822 --> 00:10:07,824
I'm not sick just sexually.
245
00:10:07,824 --> 00:10:09,696
I'm sick in a lot of ways.
246
00:10:09,696 --> 00:10:10,958
It was on a little bit
later at night.
247
00:10:10,958 --> 00:10:12,612
It was close to my bedtime.
248
00:10:12,612 --> 00:10:15,615
I remember my parents
watching it,
249
00:10:15,615 --> 00:10:20,054
and I remember wanting to hear
everything that was being said
250
00:10:20,054 --> 00:10:22,796
but afraid that
if I looked too attentive,
251
00:10:22,796 --> 00:10:24,972
it would be
something suspicious.
252
00:10:24,972 --> 00:10:26,756
And it was scar--
253
00:10:26,756 --> 00:10:29,324
From what I heard
and what I could listen to
254
00:10:29,324 --> 00:10:31,805
and from what little I saw,
I remember thinking,
255
00:10:31,805 --> 00:10:33,502
"This is bad.
This is terrible.
256
00:10:33,502 --> 00:10:34,546
This is" --
257
00:10:34,546 --> 00:10:36,374
You know, this is really...
258
00:10:36,374 --> 00:10:38,159
not a way to live one's life.
259
00:10:38,159 --> 00:10:40,857
Narrator: The average
homosexual is promiscuous.
260
00:10:40,857 --> 00:10:42,163
He is not interested in
261
00:10:42,163 --> 00:10:44,252
nor capable
of a lasting relationship
262
00:10:44,252 --> 00:10:46,558
like that
of a heterosexual marriage.
263
00:10:46,558 --> 00:10:49,649
His sex life --
his love life --
264
00:10:49,649 --> 00:10:51,912
consists of a series
of chance encounters
265
00:10:51,912 --> 00:10:54,262
at the clubs
and bars he inhabits.
266
00:10:55,742 --> 00:10:59,267
I mean, I remember myself
thinking in the late '50s,
267
00:10:59,267 --> 00:11:04,141
when I wasn't sure, you know,
what was going on with me --
268
00:11:04,141 --> 00:11:08,319
um, I decided it was a phase
I was going through
269
00:11:08,319 --> 00:11:10,060
and I would just enjoy it.
270
00:11:10,060 --> 00:11:13,281
And if I was still gay
when I graduated from college,
271
00:11:13,281 --> 00:11:15,675
I would just commit suicide.
272
00:11:15,675 --> 00:11:18,025
I was living
in an all-male dorm,
273
00:11:18,025 --> 00:11:21,115
and it was like gym class
around the clock.
274
00:11:21,115 --> 00:11:23,030
You know, "Did you catch
the game last night?"
275
00:11:23,030 --> 00:11:25,423
I mean, I didn't even know what
sport they were referring to.
276
00:11:25,423 --> 00:11:27,425
The guys on my floor
realized I was gay,
277
00:11:27,425 --> 00:11:30,298
and I just --
278
00:11:30,298 --> 00:11:32,387
I just, like, had a breakdown.
279
00:11:32,387 --> 00:11:35,085
I went up on the roof
of the high-rise dorm.
280
00:11:35,085 --> 00:11:37,435
I actually thought about
jumping off.
281
00:11:37,435 --> 00:11:39,176
We didn't want to be --
282
00:11:39,176 --> 00:11:42,527
Well, I sure did not
want to be flamboyant.
283
00:11:42,527 --> 00:11:45,705
I was holding back all the time
284
00:11:45,705 --> 00:11:51,841
because you didn't want to
come across as being "that way."
285
00:11:51,841 --> 00:11:53,582
So...
286
00:11:53,582 --> 00:11:58,587
I preferred to not be perceived
as being gay.
287
00:11:58,587 --> 00:12:01,242
Somehow, I got the impression
that I -- I -- I --
288
00:12:01,242 --> 00:12:03,723
I would be treated
better that way,
289
00:12:03,723 --> 00:12:06,247
where Gaétan was
already so obvious
290
00:12:06,247 --> 00:12:08,031
that he must have
dealt with that
291
00:12:08,031 --> 00:12:10,686
by just being even more glowing.
292
00:12:10,686 --> 00:12:13,645
Bec-- He would have been obvious
as a gay person.
293
00:12:13,645 --> 00:12:16,344
Uh, I thought it was
very brave of him.
294
00:12:16,344 --> 00:12:20,174
He's never a-- He was not
holding back anything.
295
00:12:20,174 --> 00:12:23,046
He was ahead of his time,
in a way -- he was.
296
00:12:23,046 --> 00:12:25,788
He was who he was,
297
00:12:25,788 --> 00:12:29,183
and he didn't pretend
to be straight.
298
00:12:29,183 --> 00:12:32,229
Uh, some of the men
I worked with past,
299
00:12:32,229 --> 00:12:38,235
he didn't -- he didn't
really pretend anything.
300
00:12:38,235 --> 00:12:41,761
Um, internalized homophobia
was a given.
301
00:12:41,761 --> 00:12:46,330
It would be like
if you talked about --
302
00:12:46,330 --> 00:12:47,984
if you talk about
any minority --
303
00:12:47,984 --> 00:12:51,640
Blacks or women --
if you just scratch --
304
00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:53,860
or Jews --
if you scratch the surface,
305
00:12:53,860 --> 00:12:57,994
you will discover a lot
of internalized prejudice.
306
00:12:57,994 --> 00:13:00,605
I remember having a boyfriend
who had, again,
307
00:13:00,605 --> 00:13:02,042
such internalized homophobia
308
00:13:02,042 --> 00:13:04,348
that he said to me,
at one point,
309
00:13:04,348 --> 00:13:05,959
"I think that there's" --
310
00:13:05,959 --> 00:13:07,656
"I think the worst thing
that can happen to somebody
311
00:13:07,656 --> 00:13:09,005
is being gay."
312
00:13:09,005 --> 00:13:10,354
It was one
of those relationships
313
00:13:10,354 --> 00:13:12,487
where I realized
there was no possibility
314
00:13:12,487 --> 00:13:13,618
of that working out,
315
00:13:13,618 --> 00:13:16,360
because if he didn't love
316
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,536
what was an integral
part of him,
317
00:13:18,536 --> 00:13:22,410
how could he love somebody
who represented that?
318
00:13:22,410 --> 00:13:24,455
Well, I-I'm reminded
of Paul Monette
319
00:13:24,455 --> 00:13:26,240
and his -- his --
his thesis
320
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,372
that we all make
fine concierges.
321
00:13:28,372 --> 00:13:32,420
That there's just something
about a gay man or a gay woman
322
00:13:32,420 --> 00:13:34,552
that wants to please others,
323
00:13:34,552 --> 00:13:38,818
um, that is still se-- searching
for a level of acceptance
324
00:13:38,818 --> 00:13:42,038
and, um, understanding
325
00:13:42,038 --> 00:13:44,911
that is always sometime
seems to be
326
00:13:44,911 --> 00:13:47,087
just -- just outside
of their grasp.
327
00:13:47,087 --> 00:13:48,915
Coming of age
in the '60s and '70s,
328
00:13:48,915 --> 00:13:51,918
there was a constant message
out there -- a negative message
329
00:13:51,918 --> 00:13:54,224
that two gay men
couldn't love each other.
330
00:13:54,224 --> 00:13:56,183
I mean, it was
considered a joke.
331
00:13:56,183 --> 00:13:57,880
It was considered unworkable.
332
00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,057
It was considered a-a fantasy.
333
00:14:01,057 --> 00:14:05,279
And that pernicious lie
334
00:14:05,279 --> 00:14:10,197
that gets woven into your psyche
and into your being...
335
00:14:10,197 --> 00:14:14,679
um, kind of contributed
to the kind of lifestyle
336
00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,900
that led to these
rising epidemics of STDs.
337
00:14:17,900 --> 00:14:20,685
But underneath it all,
there is that message --
338
00:14:20,685 --> 00:14:23,166
you know, that two men
together is just --
339
00:14:23,166 --> 00:14:24,559
As one expert said,
340
00:14:24,559 --> 00:14:27,692
"One penis plus one penis
equals nothing."
341
00:14:27,692 --> 00:14:29,999
As if we're always reduced
to our sexuality
342
00:14:29,999 --> 00:14:31,696
instead of our humanity.
343
00:14:31,696 --> 00:14:37,093
♪♪
344
00:14:37,093 --> 00:14:42,490
♪♪
345
00:14:42,490 --> 00:14:44,100
People who are young
346
00:14:44,100 --> 00:14:46,059
do not understand
in any real way --
347
00:14:46,059 --> 00:14:48,061
even if they know the fact --
348
00:14:48,061 --> 00:14:50,367
homosexuality
was against the law.
349
00:14:50,367 --> 00:14:51,716
It was against the law.
350
00:14:51,716 --> 00:14:54,197
Not just "your parents
didn't like you,"
351
00:14:54,197 --> 00:14:55,807
you know, or your --
you know, people
352
00:14:55,807 --> 00:14:57,200
you went to school with
didn't like you.
353
00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,376
It was actually a crime.
354
00:14:59,376 --> 00:15:02,075
Stewart: There was a special
squad of police
355
00:15:02,075 --> 00:15:03,685
who used to hang out
in public washrooms
356
00:15:03,685 --> 00:15:05,034
looking for gay behavior
357
00:15:05,034 --> 00:15:06,644
and then arresting people
who exhibited it.
358
00:15:06,644 --> 00:15:08,429
And those names and numbers
would go in the paper.
359
00:15:08,429 --> 00:15:13,695
♪♪
360
00:15:13,695 --> 00:15:16,350
We were warned about
who -- who to speak to.
361
00:15:16,350 --> 00:15:19,353
Uh, if the guys were
too good-looking,
362
00:15:19,353 --> 00:15:20,920
they were possibly cops
363
00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,531
who were in there, um,
to pick you up
364
00:15:23,531 --> 00:15:25,011
and then beat you up.
365
00:15:25,011 --> 00:15:26,577
Take them down
to, uh, one of the beaches,
366
00:15:26,577 --> 00:15:29,450
and basically
leave them there beat up.
367
00:15:29,450 --> 00:15:31,539
which was kind of,
um, you know,
368
00:15:31,539 --> 00:15:34,759
a -- a regular
weekend happening.
369
00:15:34,759 --> 00:15:36,631
If you were found out --
370
00:15:36,631 --> 00:15:38,285
I mean, a lot of people
kind of --
371
00:15:38,285 --> 00:15:41,070
people kind of knew,
if you played the game right,
372
00:15:41,070 --> 00:15:42,506
you'd be okay.
373
00:15:42,506 --> 00:15:45,205
But if you affirmed
or asserted yourself
374
00:15:45,205 --> 00:15:47,598
or pushed in any way,
shape, or form,
375
00:15:47,598 --> 00:15:49,383
lose your job like that.
376
00:15:49,383 --> 00:15:51,820
You lose your job anyway
without doing that.
377
00:15:51,820 --> 00:15:56,564
There were no civil liberties
protections of any kind.
378
00:15:56,564 --> 00:16:02,004
♪♪
379
00:16:02,004 --> 00:16:07,401
♪♪
380
00:16:07,401 --> 00:16:08,880
[Thunder crashing]
381
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:10,491
Denneny: Stonewall was like
a thunderclap.
382
00:16:10,491 --> 00:16:13,189
The fact that
gays had fought back
383
00:16:13,189 --> 00:16:15,191
was astonishing to me.
384
00:16:15,191 --> 00:16:18,107
There was a generation
of young gay people
385
00:16:18,107 --> 00:16:20,109
who were more militarized.
386
00:16:20,109 --> 00:16:22,285
They weren't content with,
387
00:16:22,285 --> 00:16:25,897
"Oh, well, you really shouldn't
be raiding gay bars.
388
00:16:25,897 --> 00:16:28,248
You shouldn't be
arresting drag queens."
389
00:16:28,248 --> 00:16:31,207
When it yet again
got raided by the police,
390
00:16:31,207 --> 00:16:33,818
the patrons decided,
"Enough is enough.
391
00:16:33,818 --> 00:16:36,299
We're not going to
put up with this anymore."
392
00:16:36,299 --> 00:16:40,173
And there was what's referred to
as the Stonewall riots.
393
00:16:40,173 --> 00:16:45,308
And that -- for most
certainly gay men --
394
00:16:45,308 --> 00:16:48,877
um, marks th-the beginning
of the gay liberation movement.
395
00:16:48,877 --> 00:16:50,792
All: [Chanting]
Gay rights now!
396
00:16:50,792 --> 00:16:54,752
Gay rights now!
Gay rights now!
397
00:16:54,752 --> 00:17:00,062
Gaétan Dugas epitomized
a politic of a deep pleasure
398
00:17:00,062 --> 00:17:03,152
in the community we built up
out of Stonewall
399
00:17:03,152 --> 00:17:05,241
against the odds --
against the Anita Bryants,
400
00:17:05,241 --> 00:17:07,200
against the rise
of the Reagan right.
401
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,377
I love homosexuals,
if you can believe that.
402
00:17:10,377 --> 00:17:12,466
I love them enough
to tell them the truth,
403
00:17:12,466 --> 00:17:15,121
because I know that there
is hope for the homosexuals --
404
00:17:15,121 --> 00:17:19,168
that if they're willing
to, uh, turn from, uh, sin
405
00:17:19,168 --> 00:17:20,778
the same as any individual,
406
00:17:20,778 --> 00:17:23,259
that, uh -- that they can be
ex-homosexuals,
407
00:17:23,259 --> 00:17:24,739
the same as there can be
an ex-murderer
408
00:17:24,739 --> 00:17:26,567
an ex-thief, or ex-anybody.
409
00:17:26,567 --> 00:17:28,482
Chorus: ♪ Air Canada ♪
410
00:17:28,482 --> 00:17:30,875
♪ Gives you the sky ♪
411
00:17:30,875 --> 00:17:31,963
♪ Come share our pride ♪
412
00:17:31,963 --> 00:17:33,704
Levaque:
We had a crew lounge
413
00:17:33,704 --> 00:17:37,273
where we had to check in
all the time,
414
00:17:37,273 --> 00:17:40,363
and they were -- everybody was
talking about Gaétan --
415
00:17:40,363 --> 00:17:42,974
how beautiful he was,
and so on.
416
00:17:42,974 --> 00:17:45,847
So I was obviously
curious to see.
417
00:17:45,847 --> 00:17:48,632
And one day, I was in
the comms center,
418
00:17:48,632 --> 00:17:50,330
and I saw him.
419
00:17:50,330 --> 00:17:52,071
Big smile.
420
00:17:52,071 --> 00:17:54,116
And we clicked right away.
421
00:17:54,116 --> 00:17:57,119
We -- we were
friends instantly.
422
00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,643
I appreciated
working with Gaétan
423
00:17:59,643 --> 00:18:01,776
because I didn't have to
follow him around.
424
00:18:01,776 --> 00:18:03,560
I didn't have to say,
"Well, you know,
425
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,127
this is how
we're supposed to do it.
426
00:18:05,127 --> 00:18:06,737
Why are you taking shortcuts?"
427
00:18:06,737 --> 00:18:08,391
Working for an airline
428
00:18:08,391 --> 00:18:11,394
was really a good home
for -- for gay -- gay guys,
429
00:18:11,394 --> 00:18:14,354
gay people, lesbian,
ehm, because they were
430
00:18:14,354 --> 00:18:17,748
extremely, extremely
good workers.
431
00:18:17,748 --> 00:18:21,361
Of course, the airline,
they were not blind to all this.
432
00:18:21,361 --> 00:18:24,364
They hired a lot of gay people.
433
00:18:24,364 --> 00:18:26,279
In fact, I would say
at the time,
434
00:18:26,279 --> 00:18:30,500
it must have been
at least 75%,
435
00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:33,286
80% of the guys were gay.
436
00:18:33,286 --> 00:18:36,027
Bisson: Word was out,
at least among the gay people --
437
00:18:36,027 --> 00:18:38,421
and probably even more
around the street people --
438
00:18:38,421 --> 00:18:43,296
that here was this, you know,
uh, outrageous gay guy...
439
00:18:43,296 --> 00:18:45,124
um, you know, who, um --
440
00:18:45,124 --> 00:18:46,560
Well, outrageous gay guy.
441
00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:48,518
Oh, yes.
That was Gaétan's attitude.
442
00:18:48,518 --> 00:18:49,824
Yeah.
Like, you know?
443
00:18:49,824 --> 00:18:51,826
He doesn't have a problem
about being gay.
444
00:18:51,826 --> 00:18:54,263
You do, so deal with it.
445
00:18:54,263 --> 00:18:56,918
He even add this shirt
that just -- that --
446
00:18:56,918 --> 00:18:58,572
tight, tight, tight,
447
00:18:58,572 --> 00:19:01,966
which was not the --
the airline rule.
448
00:19:01,966 --> 00:19:03,925
But he -- You know, he --
449
00:19:03,925 --> 00:19:05,622
And his pants were so tight
450
00:19:05,622 --> 00:19:08,234
you could see everything,
basically.
451
00:19:08,234 --> 00:19:10,932
I would say he was more
than fairly [Laughs] flamboyant.
452
00:19:10,932 --> 00:19:12,586
He was incredibly flamboyant.
453
00:19:12,586 --> 00:19:14,631
He loved eyeshadows --
454
00:19:14,631 --> 00:19:16,938
a little bit of blue
or purple --
455
00:19:16,938 --> 00:19:21,856
and he, um, also had, um,
uh, mascara.
456
00:19:21,856 --> 00:19:24,032
How do you describe charisma?
457
00:19:24,032 --> 00:19:26,600
You know, but, yes,
he walked down the hall,
458
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,080
and you could see him
stand out, you know?
459
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,431
But he was very kind of, uh --
460
00:19:31,431 --> 00:19:32,910
You know, he flowed.
461
00:19:32,910 --> 00:19:35,174
But a great personality.
462
00:19:35,174 --> 00:19:36,610
You could tell right away.
463
00:19:36,610 --> 00:19:39,917
Very smiling
and joking right away.
464
00:19:39,917 --> 00:19:41,441
Urevig:
Both of us, we used to
465
00:19:41,441 --> 00:19:43,747
color our hair
the same color [Laughs],
466
00:19:43,747 --> 00:19:45,314
and we'd do it on his couch
467
00:19:45,314 --> 00:19:48,230
watching
"The Young and the Restless."
468
00:19:48,230 --> 00:19:51,407
Levaque: I did get
a white Corvette.
469
00:19:51,407 --> 00:19:53,931
Well...he said,
470
00:19:53,931 --> 00:19:55,542
"Oh, we must go for a ride.
471
00:19:55,542 --> 00:19:57,021
We must go for a ride."
472
00:19:57,021 --> 00:19:59,154
So we did...
473
00:19:59,154 --> 00:20:02,505
and you'd -- you would think
that Gaétan would sit down
474
00:20:02,505 --> 00:20:04,899
in the passenger seat,
and that's it.
475
00:20:04,899 --> 00:20:08,294
No, he was sitting in the back
476
00:20:08,294 --> 00:20:10,470
the moment we got
to Young Street
477
00:20:10,470 --> 00:20:12,036
waving at the people.
478
00:20:12,036 --> 00:20:13,951
And I said, "I don't care."
479
00:20:13,951 --> 00:20:18,129
You know, everybody was laughing
in a way or waving.
480
00:20:18,129 --> 00:20:19,827
Man: Actually,
I've got copies
481
00:20:19,827 --> 00:20:21,785
of those pictures
right here.Oh, you did? Okay.
482
00:20:21,785 --> 00:20:24,092
Yeah, I'm wondering
if you would --So, can you see one?
483
00:20:24,092 --> 00:20:25,876
Can you -- Here.Ah.
484
00:20:25,876 --> 00:20:28,270
Gaétan i-in my --
485
00:20:28,270 --> 00:20:31,099
the white Corvette.
[Laughs]
486
00:20:31,099 --> 00:20:34,320
My best friend that died from
AIDS, [Indistinct] McDonald.
487
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,496
Yeah.
He's right there.
488
00:20:36,496 --> 00:20:38,715
He was with Gaétan
at the time.
489
00:20:38,715 --> 00:20:42,110
Hairdresser in Yorkville.
490
00:20:42,110 --> 00:20:43,416
The sweetest man.
491
00:20:43,416 --> 00:20:45,113
French Canadian again.
492
00:20:45,113 --> 00:20:47,158
That was a good time
493
00:20:47,158 --> 00:20:48,943
because there was --
494
00:20:48,943 --> 00:20:51,641
Was AIDS around at the time?
495
00:20:51,641 --> 00:20:54,862
I don't know,
but there was no worry.
496
00:20:54,862 --> 00:20:56,559
We were having fun.
497
00:20:56,559 --> 00:20:57,560
♪ Ooh ♪
498
00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,997
♪♪
499
00:20:59,997 --> 00:21:01,216
♪ Ooh-ooh ♪
500
00:21:01,216 --> 00:21:03,914
♪♪
501
00:21:03,914 --> 00:21:05,089
♪ Ooh ♪
502
00:21:05,089 --> 00:21:07,440
♪♪
503
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:08,702
♪ Ooh-ooh ♪
504
00:21:10,225 --> 00:21:13,054
The '70s were just fabulous.
505
00:21:13,054 --> 00:21:15,404
Um, you know,
not only was there was all --
506
00:21:15,404 --> 00:21:17,145
there was all this sex,
507
00:21:17,145 --> 00:21:20,409
and there was all this --
all these drugs going around,
508
00:21:20,409 --> 00:21:21,715
and we didn't yet know
509
00:21:21,715 --> 00:21:24,413
that drugs were really
not a good idea.
510
00:21:24,413 --> 00:21:27,242
Levaque: You know, it is true
that you could not believe
511
00:21:27,242 --> 00:21:28,722
what New York was like
back then.
512
00:21:28,722 --> 00:21:30,593
You know, people would le--
be -- I w--
513
00:21:30,593 --> 00:21:32,073
I would be, like,
walking down the street
514
00:21:32,073 --> 00:21:33,640
with a friend of mine --
a -- a man who's gay --
515
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,642
and I-- I would be
talking to him,
516
00:21:35,642 --> 00:21:37,165
and then he would be gone.
517
00:21:37,165 --> 00:21:38,949
You know, and he would
be like -- He saw someone
518
00:21:38,949 --> 00:21:40,951
in the street, they looked at
each other, and they left.
519
00:21:40,951 --> 00:21:42,475
Rich:
All through the '70s,
520
00:21:42,475 --> 00:21:45,652
sex was kind of
the gay man's obligation.
521
00:21:45,652 --> 00:21:47,349
You had to prove
that you were a gay man
522
00:21:47,349 --> 00:21:49,046
by having as much sex
as possible
523
00:21:49,046 --> 00:21:50,831
because this was gay liberation.
524
00:21:50,831 --> 00:21:53,442
Stewart: And so, I remember
being introduced to Gaétan.
525
00:21:53,442 --> 00:21:55,923
We didn't really click,
526
00:21:55,923 --> 00:21:59,579
and I -- I can tell you why
is because Gaétan
527
00:21:59,579 --> 00:22:01,537
was a much more
sexually adventurous person
528
00:22:01,537 --> 00:22:03,191
than I ever was.
529
00:22:03,191 --> 00:22:07,151
He was really, I think,
the first gay man
530
00:22:07,151 --> 00:22:09,893
that went out and said,
"This is my lifestyle."
531
00:22:09,893 --> 00:22:12,156
Lebowitz:
And I remember saying to the
straight guy, who I didn't know,
532
00:22:12,156 --> 00:22:15,029
"Are you telling me that if
there was a street in New York
533
00:22:15,029 --> 00:22:17,814
filled with beautiful
20-year-old girls
534
00:22:17,814 --> 00:22:19,207
who you could just look at
535
00:22:19,207 --> 00:22:20,556
and take into a doorway
or something,
536
00:22:20,556 --> 00:22:22,384
that you wouldn't do it?
You would do it.
537
00:22:22,384 --> 00:22:24,604
You just can't do it
because women won't do it."
538
00:22:24,604 --> 00:22:25,996
I mean, a small price to pay
539
00:22:25,996 --> 00:22:28,521
for owning the world,
I would say.
540
00:22:28,521 --> 00:22:32,133
Being in a queer club
541
00:22:32,133 --> 00:22:35,223
or just a disco club early on,
542
00:22:35,223 --> 00:22:39,836
once you make it, you know,
in the door past the doormen,
543
00:22:39,836 --> 00:22:42,622
there's liberation
on the dance floor.
544
00:22:42,622 --> 00:22:44,885
Denneny:
What it was, was anonymous.
545
00:22:44,885 --> 00:22:47,322
You did not know
the name of the person,
546
00:22:47,322 --> 00:22:48,758
which meant you did not know
547
00:22:48,758 --> 00:22:51,892
whether this person
was a truck driver,
548
00:22:51,892 --> 00:22:55,069
you know, or Vice President
of Chase Bank.
549
00:22:55,069 --> 00:22:59,378
Lebowitz: Because we thought
that sex was good for you.
550
00:22:59,378 --> 00:23:01,118
Like kale.
551
00:23:01,118 --> 00:23:03,991
Like, New York was a--
a-an orgy.
552
00:23:03,991 --> 00:23:05,253
I don't even describe it.
553
00:23:05,253 --> 00:23:07,429
And -- And, to me,
it seemed like
554
00:23:07,429 --> 00:23:09,736
you couldn't possibly have sex
with so many different people.
555
00:23:09,736 --> 00:23:11,868
What could be healthier?
What could be more delightful?
556
00:23:11,868 --> 00:23:14,523
Berkowitz:
Feminists were celebrating
and reclaiming clitoral orgasm
557
00:23:14,523 --> 00:23:17,396
as -- as essential
to women's sexuality.
558
00:23:17,396 --> 00:23:19,310
It was as if gay men
were busy discovering
559
00:23:19,310 --> 00:23:21,182
that the other half
of their dick
560
00:23:21,182 --> 00:23:22,705
was inside their rectum.
561
00:23:22,705 --> 00:23:24,577
It was a golden age while.
562
00:23:24,577 --> 00:23:25,969
Oh, it was.
563
00:23:25,969 --> 00:23:27,493
Yeah, a golden age.
564
00:23:27,493 --> 00:23:29,190
♪♪
565
00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:33,020
Houses in, like --
Well, in the '70s?
566
00:23:33,020 --> 00:23:34,151
Kind of fun.
567
00:23:34,151 --> 00:23:35,414
Kind of great.
568
00:23:35,414 --> 00:23:36,893
I mean, you know.
569
00:23:36,893 --> 00:23:39,113
Stoner: The bathhouses
were meeting places.
570
00:23:39,113 --> 00:23:40,462
That's where you met people.
571
00:23:40,462 --> 00:23:41,855
You went dancing,
and then you went
572
00:23:41,855 --> 00:23:43,465
to the bathhouse, you know?
573
00:23:43,465 --> 00:23:45,554
You're probably aware
that the Continental Baths
574
00:23:45,554 --> 00:23:47,426
had Bette Midler.
575
00:23:47,426 --> 00:23:49,906
Maley: No one had to say, "Oh,
this is Rock Hudson calling."
576
00:23:49,906 --> 00:23:51,865
We would walk him around
to the booths
577
00:23:51,865 --> 00:23:54,302
and shove him in a booth,
and you could hear someone go,
578
00:23:54,302 --> 00:23:56,565
"Oh, my God,
it's Rock Hudson!" [Laughs]
579
00:23:56,565 --> 00:24:01,744
Elton John is right there,
and he's dancing right beside.
580
00:24:01,744 --> 00:24:04,312
Denneny: Calvin Klein recently
in "The New York Times"
581
00:24:04,312 --> 00:24:07,228
made a comment saying
that the three great decades
582
00:24:07,228 --> 00:24:10,840
of the 20th century
were Berlin in the '20s,
583
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,844
Paris and the '30s,
and New York City in the '70s.
584
00:24:14,844 --> 00:24:16,672
And I -- I agree with him.
585
00:24:16,672 --> 00:24:18,021
They had discotheques
586
00:24:18,021 --> 00:24:20,328
and yes-gay discotheques
everywhere --
587
00:24:20,328 --> 00:24:23,723
London, New York,
San Francisco --
588
00:24:23,723 --> 00:24:25,202
all these places
that we flew to.
589
00:24:25,202 --> 00:24:26,856
And I got very clearly, I think,
590
00:24:26,856 --> 00:24:29,816
that, uh, Gaétan liked
having encounters
591
00:24:29,816 --> 00:24:31,992
that were no responsibility.
592
00:24:31,992 --> 00:24:35,038
Levaque:
Sliding his business card.
593
00:24:35,038 --> 00:24:38,912
Or, th-- Or, they were
coming from passengers.
594
00:24:38,912 --> 00:24:40,783
Watson: Gaétan had said,
"Di-Did you notice
595
00:24:40,783 --> 00:24:44,047
the -- the guy in
such-and-such's seat?
596
00:24:44,047 --> 00:24:45,527
Cute.
597
00:24:45,527 --> 00:24:48,138
I bet you I can
make more time with him
598
00:24:48,138 --> 00:24:49,662
than you can."
599
00:24:49,662 --> 00:24:52,273
Uh, which often was true.
[Laughs]
600
00:24:52,273 --> 00:24:54,667
"This guy
is definitely straight.
601
00:24:54,667 --> 00:24:56,756
There's no way, Gaétan."
602
00:24:56,756 --> 00:24:59,846
Well, you know, he's gonna
do anything with him,
603
00:24:59,846 --> 00:25:01,543
but the passenger go.
604
00:25:01,543 --> 00:25:03,110
It was more important
605
00:25:03,110 --> 00:25:07,331
to have a party for him,
obviously.
606
00:25:07,331 --> 00:25:10,378
Berkowitz: But it was
such a revelation...
607
00:25:10,378 --> 00:25:12,989
uh, to discover that --
608
00:25:12,989 --> 00:25:17,254
that anal sex could be
pleasurable and clea--
609
00:25:17,254 --> 00:25:19,474
I mean, it was kind of
an acquired taste.
610
00:25:19,474 --> 00:25:21,911
You didn't just -- Usually,
you didn't jump into it.
611
00:25:21,911 --> 00:25:24,261
There was a whole subculture
612
00:25:24,261 --> 00:25:26,350
that went with learning
how to bottom --
613
00:25:26,350 --> 00:25:28,439
learning how to relax,
learning how to douche,
614
00:25:28,439 --> 00:25:30,833
learning how to open up.
615
00:25:30,833 --> 00:25:32,574
You know,
it wasn't just about sex.
616
00:25:32,574 --> 00:25:34,576
It was about men loving man.
617
00:25:34,576 --> 00:25:37,318
It was about seeing other
gay men as your brother
618
00:25:37,318 --> 00:25:39,538
and caring about them
and making love to them
619
00:25:39,538 --> 00:25:41,975
and being tender with them
and affectionate with them
620
00:25:41,975 --> 00:25:44,238
and having relationships
with them.
621
00:25:44,238 --> 00:25:46,762
Gaynor: Gaétan actually told me
that he had a project
622
00:25:46,762 --> 00:25:48,851
of having sex with
a different man every night.
623
00:25:48,851 --> 00:25:50,766
It was just kind of
an entertainment.
624
00:25:50,766 --> 00:25:53,943
Like, it -- it was a project
he worked on
625
00:25:53,943 --> 00:25:57,207
with great, uh, intensity
and effort and success.
626
00:25:57,207 --> 00:26:00,559
Well, you know, if you scored,
say, two nights a week,
627
00:26:00,559 --> 00:26:04,606
and you did that for a year,
that's 100 people.
628
00:26:04,606 --> 00:26:08,218
So, from '71 to '81,
that's 1,000 people.
629
00:26:08,218 --> 00:26:10,743
Your average gay man
probably had sex
630
00:26:10,743 --> 00:26:12,962
with 1,000 people
in that decade.
631
00:26:12,962 --> 00:26:15,748
And I'm sure
Gaétan Dugas had sex
632
00:26:15,748 --> 00:26:17,924
with many more
than 1,000 people.
633
00:26:17,924 --> 00:26:19,012
Ooh, yes.
634
00:26:19,012 --> 00:26:21,144
He was an extremely sexual man.
635
00:26:21,144 --> 00:26:22,711
He was always ready.
[Laughing]
636
00:26:22,711 --> 00:26:24,757
Always ready, okay?
You never knew.
637
00:26:24,757 --> 00:26:27,368
I was going to work,
and he had his backpack,
638
00:26:27,368 --> 00:26:31,851
and, er, there was something
in the backpack, and it fell.
639
00:26:31,851 --> 00:26:33,026
So, I said,
"Oh, what's that --"
640
00:26:33,026 --> 00:26:34,288
[Gasps]
[Speaking French]
641
00:26:35,289 --> 00:26:37,160
I can't go anywhere
without that." [Laughing]
642
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:38,858
I'm sorry.
643
00:26:38,858 --> 00:26:42,078
So he picked it up right away
and put it in his pocket
644
00:26:42,078 --> 00:26:44,385
Like, "Was he sexual?"
I would say so.
645
00:26:44,385 --> 00:26:47,693
♪ Ooooooh-ooh ♪
646
00:26:47,693 --> 00:26:49,999
Sex, drugs, disco.
647
00:26:49,999 --> 00:26:51,392
♪ Ooh-ooh ♪
648
00:26:51,392 --> 00:26:52,480
Uh, sex.
649
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,525
♪ Ooooooh-ooh ♪
650
00:26:54,525 --> 00:26:56,789
Berkowitz:
But as the '70s wore on
651
00:26:56,789 --> 00:27:00,662
and the commercialization
of gay male sex exploded,
652
00:27:00,662 --> 00:27:02,533
you no longer had to care
about the movement.
653
00:27:02,533 --> 00:27:05,275
You could just come in,
get your rocks off, and go.
654
00:27:05,275 --> 00:27:09,410
And it didn't really force you
to, um, think politically
655
00:27:09,410 --> 00:27:13,240
about, um, this being
an opportunity for America
656
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,938
to move forward
in terms of its empathy
657
00:27:15,938 --> 00:27:19,899
and understanding
and bridging all these divides
658
00:27:19,899 --> 00:27:21,814
that the culture creates
to keep us apart
659
00:27:21,814 --> 00:27:23,424
instead of united.
660
00:27:23,424 --> 00:27:26,166
♪♪
661
00:27:26,166 --> 00:27:28,516
Murray:
You know, it's very easy
to fall into the hedonistic side
662
00:27:28,516 --> 00:27:30,126
because it's intoxicating,
663
00:27:30,126 --> 00:27:33,042
but there was a price to pay,
I think, for that.
664
00:27:34,740 --> 00:27:36,219
You could see from
the lifestyle of New York
665
00:27:36,219 --> 00:27:39,396
that candles were being burned
at both ends.
666
00:27:39,396 --> 00:27:42,878
[Clicks tongue]
Yeah, it's great fun.
667
00:27:42,878 --> 00:27:46,099
But if it was a lifestyle,
uh, it was gonna burn out.
668
00:27:46,099 --> 00:27:50,277
Young men full of testosterone
and opportunity.
669
00:27:50,277 --> 00:27:52,583
Something was likely to happen.
670
00:27:53,759 --> 00:27:57,501
Friend of mine called from
the other side of San Francisco,
671
00:27:57,501 --> 00:27:59,068
but he was straight,
and he said,
672
00:27:59,068 --> 00:28:00,461
"Hey, have you heard about
the new gay cancer?
673
00:28:00,461 --> 00:28:02,898
Ha-ha, there's a gay cancer
out there."
674
00:28:02,898 --> 00:28:05,509
I w-- Tha-- No.
675
00:28:05,509 --> 00:28:06,989
That's crazy.
676
00:28:06,989 --> 00:28:08,687
Being gay has nothing
to do with cancer.
677
00:28:09,949 --> 00:28:11,341
Um...
678
00:28:13,909 --> 00:28:16,912
And then, it just got awful.
679
00:28:16,912 --> 00:28:20,046
It got worse and worse
and worse from that moment on.
680
00:28:20,046 --> 00:28:22,875
I wish I had never heard
the term "gay cancer."
681
00:28:22,875 --> 00:28:25,747
♪♪
682
00:28:25,747 --> 00:28:27,488
Dr. Mass:
This is very early '81.
683
00:28:27,488 --> 00:28:29,403
There's something going on,
684
00:28:29,403 --> 00:28:30,752
Uh, there's some people
685
00:28:30,752 --> 00:28:32,275
in the New York City
emergency rooms
686
00:28:32,275 --> 00:28:35,583
with gay men, you know,
who are seriously ill.
687
00:28:35,583 --> 00:28:38,368
And, uh, within a week or so,
688
00:28:38,368 --> 00:28:40,501
there were a couple
of deaths reported.
689
00:28:42,416 --> 00:28:45,506
I had referred
a man with a rash --
690
00:28:45,506 --> 00:28:48,814
gay man with
a peculiar sort of rash
691
00:28:48,814 --> 00:28:52,948
to my consultant dermatologist.
692
00:28:52,948 --> 00:28:56,386
And he phoned me back
to postulate to me,
693
00:28:56,386 --> 00:28:57,910
"Isn't it a little strange?
694
00:28:57,910 --> 00:29:00,913
The-- All these
very strange rashes
695
00:29:00,913 --> 00:29:02,610
that we've started
seeing in gay men?"
696
00:29:02,610 --> 00:29:04,438
I remember the first person
I knew who had AIDS,
697
00:29:04,438 --> 00:29:07,049
but no one knew what he had,
and he died.
698
00:29:07,049 --> 00:29:09,051
I was so shocked.
You know, "What did he die of?"
699
00:29:09,051 --> 00:29:12,141
Because we were too young
to be dying.
700
00:29:12,141 --> 00:29:13,839
Reading the newspaper
that morning,
701
00:29:13,839 --> 00:29:16,624
there was the famous
little paragraph.
702
00:29:16,624 --> 00:29:20,149
"Eight New Yorkers died
of mysterious gay cancer."
703
00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:23,413
And word was filtering
from Fire Island.
704
00:29:23,413 --> 00:29:25,067
The whispers had begun.
705
00:29:25,067 --> 00:29:29,158
There were a lot of gay men
coming to my practice
706
00:29:29,158 --> 00:29:32,292
who had unexplained
lymphadenopathy,
707
00:29:32,292 --> 00:29:35,991
and lymphadenopathy
is swelling of lymph glands.
708
00:29:35,991 --> 00:29:38,559
It could be in the neck,
under the arms.
709
00:29:38,559 --> 00:29:43,999
And there was
no easy explanation for it,
710
00:29:43,999 --> 00:29:48,221
as well as this
peculiar occurrence
711
00:29:48,221 --> 00:29:50,876
of Pneumocystis
carinii pneumonia
712
00:29:50,876 --> 00:29:54,314
in gay men in San Francisco
and Los Angeles.
713
00:29:54,314 --> 00:29:55,706
McCaskell: We began to realize
that this wasn't
714
00:29:55,706 --> 00:29:58,100
just a crazy,
homophobic media story.
715
00:29:58,100 --> 00:30:00,276
There was something serious
going on here.
716
00:30:00,276 --> 00:30:02,975
I was totally paranoid
and scared shitless
717
00:30:02,975 --> 00:30:05,847
I was in a state of
perpetual paranoia,
and so was everybody.
718
00:30:05,847 --> 00:30:07,457
Everybody thought,
"Oh, my God, I've got it."
719
00:30:07,457 --> 00:30:10,591
So, this young nurse had been
admitted to the hospital
720
00:30:10,591 --> 00:30:13,333
the night before, uh,
in September of that year.
721
00:30:13,333 --> 00:30:15,117
Came to my office
with a purple spot
722
00:30:15,117 --> 00:30:17,032
on the bottom of each foot...
723
00:30:18,294 --> 00:30:21,036
...and biopsy showed
that it was Kaposi's sarcoma.
724
00:30:21,036 --> 00:30:23,212
Kaposi's sarcoma
had been recognized
725
00:30:23,212 --> 00:30:27,434
as a very rare form
of skin cancer --
726
00:30:27,434 --> 00:30:31,090
um, little reddish
or purplish lumps
727
00:30:31,090 --> 00:30:34,136
appearing on the skin,
often on the feet,
728
00:30:34,136 --> 00:30:38,837
and, uh, mostly seeming
to affect older men.
729
00:30:38,837 --> 00:30:40,534
Reporter 2: Normally, there are
fewer than 20 cases
730
00:30:40,534 --> 00:30:42,623
of Kaposi a year
in the United States,
731
00:30:42,623 --> 00:30:44,190
but in the last 18 months,
732
00:30:44,190 --> 00:30:46,496
more than 300 cases
have been reported.
733
00:30:46,496 --> 00:30:49,369
The Kaposi's sarcoma that was
affecting the younger gay men
734
00:30:49,369 --> 00:30:52,633
as part of this
emergent new condition, um,
735
00:30:52,633 --> 00:30:56,550
became known as AIDS
was far more aggressive,
736
00:30:56,550 --> 00:30:58,378
far more disseminated.
737
00:30:58,378 --> 00:30:59,640
The-- the thing about it
738
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,772
the sort of vaguely
got my attention
739
00:31:01,772 --> 00:31:05,167
was the idea that it was
an infectious cancer,
740
00:31:05,167 --> 00:31:06,473
'cause there aren't any
741
00:31:06,473 --> 00:31:08,214
infectious cancers,
by and large.
742
00:31:08,214 --> 00:31:09,955
Well, there are some cases
743
00:31:09,955 --> 00:31:13,219
of something we don't really
know ex-- yet what it is.
744
00:31:13,219 --> 00:31:16,570
They all seem to have
immune deficiency.
745
00:31:16,570 --> 00:31:18,354
We have no idea
what's causing it.
746
00:31:18,354 --> 00:31:20,008
"Is this something?
747
00:31:20,008 --> 00:31:22,837
Okay, is this something
we should all know about?"
748
00:31:22,837 --> 00:31:27,189
And beginning to -- to kind of
come to terms with -- with that.
749
00:31:27,189 --> 00:31:28,799
Lebowitz: I remember
in San Francisco,
750
00:31:28,799 --> 00:31:31,150
people called it
"gay waiter's disease."
751
00:31:31,150 --> 00:31:32,629
But of course, I mean,
"gay waiter"
752
00:31:32,629 --> 00:31:35,632
was like a redundant phrase
in San Francisco.
753
00:31:35,632 --> 00:31:37,243
A lot of people got it.
754
00:31:37,243 --> 00:31:40,942
Bang-bang-bang.
With the airline, mostly.
755
00:31:40,942 --> 00:31:43,379
We were all over the place.
756
00:31:43,379 --> 00:31:45,425
It's...
757
00:31:45,425 --> 00:31:50,473
I-It's hard to explain
how you feel at the time,
758
00:31:50,473 --> 00:31:54,608
where you can die
if you do what?
759
00:31:54,608 --> 00:31:55,870
I don't know.
760
00:31:55,870 --> 00:31:57,611
It was, um...
761
00:31:57,611 --> 00:32:03,486
a time when we didn't stop
partying and having sex --
762
00:32:03,486 --> 00:32:05,532
because that connection
hadn't been made --
763
00:32:05,532 --> 00:32:08,317
but there was there a unease
in the gay community about,
764
00:32:08,317 --> 00:32:11,233
did we actually dare
go out i-into a club
765
00:32:11,233 --> 00:32:13,496
and, uh, you know,
breathe the air
766
00:32:13,496 --> 00:32:14,976
from all these gay people?
767
00:32:14,976 --> 00:32:18,371
It's a bit difficult
in the sense of,
768
00:32:18,371 --> 00:32:20,590
sometimes, you need to know
what you're looking for
769
00:32:20,590 --> 00:32:22,070
in order to find it.
770
00:32:22,070 --> 00:32:23,898
And when you really
don't know what it is,
771
00:32:23,898 --> 00:32:25,726
it becomes that much
harder to find.
772
00:32:25,726 --> 00:32:28,511
You didn't have to be
a rocket scientist
773
00:32:28,511 --> 00:32:30,992
to figure out that
this was going to be a problem
774
00:32:30,992 --> 00:32:33,429
when you saw two cases
and then four cases
775
00:32:33,429 --> 00:32:35,257
and then eight cases.
776
00:32:35,257 --> 00:32:37,607
I mean, that's
an exponential growth.
777
00:32:37,607 --> 00:32:39,827
Watts:
My hunch at the time
778
00:32:39,827 --> 00:32:42,873
was that this was gonna be
an epidemic...
779
00:32:42,873 --> 00:32:47,400
and, unfortunately,
my hunch was right.
780
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,490
♪♪
781
00:32:50,490 --> 00:32:52,013
Dr. Jaffe: I think
when w-we realized
782
00:32:52,013 --> 00:32:53,232
what a big
epidemic it was,
783
00:32:53,232 --> 00:32:54,407
it became
very frightening.
784
00:32:54,407 --> 00:32:56,409
You know,
how is this gonna end?
785
00:32:56,409 --> 00:32:59,151
I remember talking to
a very prominent virologist
786
00:32:59,151 --> 00:33:02,937
in Boston who said,
"What if it becomes airborne?"
787
00:33:02,937 --> 00:33:05,374
And I s-- all I could say is,
"Everybody will die."
788
00:33:06,941 --> 00:33:11,511
It was a terrible period
because of the uncertainty.
789
00:33:11,511 --> 00:33:16,255
You don't know exactly --
how is it transmitted?
790
00:33:16,255 --> 00:33:21,173
"Am I infected with the --
a death sentence here?"
791
00:33:21,173 --> 00:33:24,219
The-There were all sorts
of weird theories.
792
00:33:24,219 --> 00:33:27,701
Uh, the -- the most common
was poppers.
793
00:33:27,701 --> 00:33:30,225
Poppers are wonderful.
[Chuckles]
794
00:33:30,225 --> 00:33:34,012
They make you feel
a sense of euphoria.
795
00:33:34,012 --> 00:33:36,057
They're basically
vasodilators.
796
00:33:36,057 --> 00:33:38,973
They give you --
They give you a quick high,
797
00:33:38,973 --> 00:33:41,845
and, uh, they were being
used a lot amongst gay men.
798
00:33:41,845 --> 00:33:44,022
And everybody was praying
799
00:33:44,022 --> 00:33:46,502
that it was gonna be
poppers, you know?
800
00:33:46,502 --> 00:33:48,200
'Cause we could give up poppers.
801
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,463
Or it was gonna be S&M,
or it was gonna be fisting,
802
00:33:50,463 --> 00:33:52,421
or it was gonna be something
we could give up.
803
00:33:52,421 --> 00:33:54,989
Gay men were getting a lot
of infections at that time --
804
00:33:54,989 --> 00:33:56,991
hepatitis and amoebas
and whatnot.
805
00:33:56,991 --> 00:33:58,862
And it was thought that
806
00:33:58,862 --> 00:34:00,603
they were overloading
their immune systems,
807
00:34:00,603 --> 00:34:03,519
and this -- what you were
seeing with AIDS,
808
00:34:03,519 --> 00:34:06,566
which was clearly
an immune system disease,
809
00:34:06,566 --> 00:34:08,263
was the result
of this overload.
810
00:34:08,263 --> 00:34:10,004
Was this the CIA?
811
00:34:10,004 --> 00:34:12,354
Was this a urban myth?
812
00:34:12,354 --> 00:34:14,356
Let's -- Let's ignore it
at all costs,
813
00:34:14,356 --> 00:34:16,402
because it's --
it's got to be a --
814
00:34:16,402 --> 00:34:18,317
it's got to be
a right-wing plot.
815
00:34:18,317 --> 00:34:21,537
And, certainly, the right-wing
exploited it and demonized us
816
00:34:21,537 --> 00:34:23,670
in -- in exactly that way.
817
00:34:23,670 --> 00:34:25,150
So it's very understandable
818
00:34:25,150 --> 00:34:28,196
that people like myself
or Gaétan
819
00:34:28,196 --> 00:34:32,244
would plug our ears somewhat,
especially in the early years,
820
00:34:32,244 --> 00:34:34,768
even as we started to see
friends getting sick
821
00:34:34,768 --> 00:34:35,986
and friends dying.
822
00:34:35,986 --> 00:34:38,946
♪♪
823
00:34:38,946 --> 00:34:40,730
Dr. Jaffe: Throughout
the summer of 1981,
824
00:34:40,730 --> 00:34:44,256
we recorded interviews
from AIDS cases.
825
00:34:44,256 --> 00:34:46,780
We were struck
by how sick they were --
826
00:34:46,780 --> 00:34:48,390
also about
their lifestyles.
827
00:34:48,390 --> 00:34:51,524
That they had tended to be
very sexually active gay men,
828
00:34:51,524 --> 00:34:53,395
travel a lot,
use a lot of drugs,
829
00:34:53,395 --> 00:34:55,267
but we didn't know
what the risk factors were.
830
00:34:55,267 --> 00:34:56,964
So we developed
a case definition,
831
00:34:56,964 --> 00:35:00,010
distribute it to doctors,
health departments,
832
00:35:00,010 --> 00:35:01,273
teaching hospitals.
833
00:35:01,273 --> 00:35:02,970
And as for cases,
we reported
834
00:35:02,970 --> 00:35:05,494
two health departments,
and then to CDC.
835
00:35:05,494 --> 00:35:09,019
Bill Darrow was a -- a --
a research sociologist, uh,
836
00:35:09,019 --> 00:35:10,630
in the STD division
837
00:35:10,630 --> 00:35:13,328
and an expert
on sexual behavior, uh,
838
00:35:13,328 --> 00:35:16,462
both in gay men and
in heterosexual populations.
839
00:35:16,462 --> 00:35:20,814
We get this report
that three men in Los Angeles
840
00:35:20,814 --> 00:35:23,164
are -- all are in
the same hospital.
841
00:35:23,164 --> 00:35:25,645
They apparently have
the same condition.
842
00:35:25,645 --> 00:35:28,430
And the lover
of one of these men says --
843
00:35:28,430 --> 00:35:31,433
and the three have had sex
with one another.
844
00:35:31,433 --> 00:35:34,741
This suggests
that it's not poppers.
845
00:35:34,741 --> 00:35:36,264
You know, he didn't say
846
00:35:36,264 --> 00:35:39,963
that they were sniffing
the same substance.
847
00:35:39,963 --> 00:35:42,749
That they had sex
with one another.
848
00:35:42,749 --> 00:35:44,925
That's when the question came.
849
00:35:44,925 --> 00:35:47,449
"Well, are there any other
sexual connections
850
00:35:47,449 --> 00:35:48,972
in Los Angeles?
851
00:35:48,972 --> 00:35:51,845
Let's have Bill Darrow
fly out to Los Angeles
852
00:35:51,845 --> 00:35:55,675
and pursue the possibility
of a cluster of cases
853
00:35:55,675 --> 00:36:00,810
connected by sexual contact
within the last five years."
854
00:36:02,682 --> 00:36:05,989
So the first person that came in
was actually a flight attendant,
855
00:36:05,989 --> 00:36:09,428
and, um, he -- he said
that, you know, um,
856
00:36:09,428 --> 00:36:11,169
"One of my sex partners
857
00:36:11,169 --> 00:36:13,910
has been a very
attractive steward
858
00:36:13,910 --> 00:36:16,043
who flies for Air Canada.
859
00:36:16,043 --> 00:36:20,613
Handsome guy, really nice guy,
and I've had sex with him."
860
00:36:20,613 --> 00:36:22,049
"Can you tell me
any more about him?"
861
00:36:22,049 --> 00:36:23,877
"Well, he kind of has an accent.
862
00:36:23,877 --> 00:36:26,271
Um, can't remember his name."
863
00:36:26,271 --> 00:36:28,751
In the afternoon,
we talked to a second person
864
00:36:28,751 --> 00:36:31,580
and gave a very similar story.
865
00:36:31,580 --> 00:36:33,669
We had to drive all the way out
to Orange County
866
00:36:33,669 --> 00:36:35,367
to interview this third person.
867
00:36:35,367 --> 00:36:38,065
And we got around to this
business of naming sex partners,
868
00:36:38,065 --> 00:36:39,675
and here comes this same
869
00:36:39,675 --> 00:36:42,504
French Canadian
flight attendant.
870
00:36:42,504 --> 00:36:44,680
"Can you remember his name?"
871
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:46,900
He said, "You know,
I think I've got a card
872
00:36:46,900 --> 00:36:49,859
or some information
in my address book.
873
00:36:49,859 --> 00:36:53,036
Let me -- Let me go see
if I can find it."
874
00:36:53,036 --> 00:36:55,561
So, he excused himself,
he went into his bedroom,
875
00:36:55,561 --> 00:36:57,345
and he came back
with a big smile on his face.
876
00:36:57,345 --> 00:36:59,217
"I've got it!
I've got it! I got it!
877
00:36:59,217 --> 00:37:00,522
Here's his name!
878
00:37:00,522 --> 00:37:03,786
I had sex with him
on Thanksgiving,
879
00:37:03,786 --> 00:37:05,919
8709 Club,
880
00:37:05,919 --> 00:37:08,661
and afterwards,
I came down with hepatitis.
881
00:37:08,661 --> 00:37:10,184
And then, he came back
in December,
882
00:37:10,184 --> 00:37:12,273
I had sex with him again,
and I bet that's when
883
00:37:12,273 --> 00:37:15,015
I got this disease
that I've got now."
884
00:37:15,015 --> 00:37:17,452
"What's his name?"
He says, "Here it is."
885
00:37:20,803 --> 00:37:25,330
Dugas had experienced fever
and noticed swollen lymph nodes
886
00:37:25,330 --> 00:37:27,462
since January, 1980.
887
00:37:27,462 --> 00:37:30,465
When I met him,
888
00:37:30,465 --> 00:37:33,468
he had two visible spots of KS,
889
00:37:33,468 --> 00:37:36,036
visible when he's
wearing clothing.
890
00:37:36,036 --> 00:37:37,820
One was on his forearm,
891
00:37:37,820 --> 00:37:39,779
and one was on
the tip of his nose.
892
00:37:39,779 --> 00:37:42,129
The CDC numbered the cases
893
00:37:42,129 --> 00:37:45,175
in the order in which they came
to the attention of CDC --
894
00:37:45,175 --> 00:37:47,613
the order in which
they were reported.
895
00:37:47,613 --> 00:37:51,921
So there had to have been
56 other people reported to us
896
00:37:51,921 --> 00:37:54,184
before he would --
would report it to us.
897
00:37:54,184 --> 00:37:57,710
And so, that's how
I found out more about him.
898
00:37:57,710 --> 00:37:59,364
And then, I followed up
899
00:37:59,364 --> 00:38:02,280
by calling him
and introducing myself.
900
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,195
And lo and behold, you know,
before anything else happens,
901
00:38:05,195 --> 00:38:06,675
I'm meeting him in New York.
902
00:38:06,675 --> 00:38:09,722
I'm flying up to New York
the next week.
903
00:38:09,722 --> 00:38:11,724
There was certainly
a lot of fear
904
00:38:11,724 --> 00:38:14,117
because there was still a lot
that was unknown about it.
905
00:38:14,117 --> 00:38:17,599
And so, I had no idea
906
00:38:17,599 --> 00:38:20,428
what the impact was
going to be on me, um,
907
00:38:20,428 --> 00:38:22,256
as a result of having
had sex with Gaétan.
908
00:38:22,256 --> 00:38:23,953
So, um, we were just --
909
00:38:23,953 --> 00:38:26,608
a-a group of us
all had just gone out to a --
910
00:38:26,608 --> 00:38:28,044
to a tea dance in the afternoon,
911
00:38:28,044 --> 00:38:29,785
and he was a friend
of a friend of mine.
912
00:38:29,785 --> 00:38:31,134
And one thing led to another,
913
00:38:31,134 --> 00:38:33,789
and we ended up
going home together.
914
00:38:33,789 --> 00:38:35,617
He was very full of life.
915
00:38:35,617 --> 00:38:37,576
He was charming.
916
00:38:37,576 --> 00:38:40,405
Um, he just had a lot of fun
and a lot of energy.
917
00:38:40,405 --> 00:38:41,797
Yeah, it was definitely risky.
918
00:38:41,797 --> 00:38:44,365
I was -- I bottomed
for him, so...
919
00:38:44,365 --> 00:38:47,412
Week after we had, um,
gone home together,
920
00:38:47,412 --> 00:38:49,327
I was talking with
this mutual friend of ours,
921
00:38:49,327 --> 00:38:51,111
and I was saying, you know, "He
seemed like a really nice guy."
922
00:38:51,111 --> 00:38:53,853
And he said, "Oh, yeah.
He's got that weird gay cancer."
923
00:38:53,853 --> 00:38:56,159
And I was like,
"What gay cancer?"
924
00:38:56,159 --> 00:38:57,204
I'd never heard of it.
925
00:38:57,204 --> 00:38:59,075
It was the first sort of time
926
00:38:59,075 --> 00:39:01,382
that anybody had even referenced
something like that,
927
00:39:01,382 --> 00:39:03,253
and I sort of let it drop.
928
00:39:03,253 --> 00:39:05,299
And then, um, I started to hear
a little bit more about it,
929
00:39:05,299 --> 00:39:08,041
and then I started
to see, uh, news about it.
930
00:39:08,041 --> 00:39:11,871
And so, that became much more,
again, embedded in my mind,
931
00:39:11,871 --> 00:39:14,917
and it was something
that started to really impact
932
00:39:14,917 --> 00:39:17,137
my thought process.
933
00:39:17,137 --> 00:39:23,099
♪♪
934
00:39:23,099 --> 00:39:26,015
This was something, um...
935
00:39:26,015 --> 00:39:30,977
with the potential
to impact our community
936
00:39:30,977 --> 00:39:33,283
and -- and --
and other communities
937
00:39:33,283 --> 00:39:35,677
in -- in much bigger ways.
938
00:39:35,677 --> 00:39:37,897
And so, suddenly,
all of these boys
939
00:39:37,897 --> 00:39:39,986
who had had to hide
who they were for years
940
00:39:39,986 --> 00:39:41,422
and pretend they weren't
941
00:39:41,422 --> 00:39:43,511
and deny to their parents
that they were gay
942
00:39:43,511 --> 00:39:46,166
and they weren't married
because they were bachelors.
943
00:39:46,166 --> 00:39:47,776
We don't have bachelors anymore.
944
00:39:47,776 --> 00:39:50,126
Suddenly, they could be
who they were.
945
00:39:50,126 --> 00:39:52,564
And now, we had a disease
come along and say,
946
00:39:52,564 --> 00:39:53,956
"You can't do that"?
947
00:39:53,956 --> 00:39:55,654
We had finally found
our moment in time
948
00:39:55,654 --> 00:39:56,916
where we could have sex.
949
00:39:56,916 --> 00:39:58,439
We could have af fa-- affairs.
950
00:39:58,439 --> 00:40:00,528
We could do
what we wanted, finally,
951
00:40:00,528 --> 00:40:03,009
and no one could say,
"No, you can't do that" anymore.
952
00:40:03,009 --> 00:40:06,360
And to have AIDS
crash into that party --
953
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:07,709
Oh, my goodness.
954
00:40:07,709 --> 00:40:09,232
Murray: So, you had,
on the one hand,
955
00:40:09,232 --> 00:40:11,670
this gay sexual liberation
956
00:40:11,670 --> 00:40:14,760
and -- and people
really experiencing
957
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,023
what it was like to be gay
in a way they'd never
958
00:40:17,023 --> 00:40:18,720
been able to do before.[Crowd chanting]
959
00:40:18,720 --> 00:40:24,770
And a move to the right,
from a government standpoint --
960
00:40:24,770 --> 00:40:26,598
it was a perfect storm
961
00:40:26,598 --> 00:40:31,385
because it allowed that group
to come in and say,
962
00:40:31,385 --> 00:40:33,474
"This is the price you pay.
963
00:40:33,474 --> 00:40:36,390
What you are
and what you do is wrong."
964
00:40:36,390 --> 00:40:38,000
All: [Chanting]
No more faggots!
965
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,526
No more faggots!
No more faggots!
966
00:40:41,526 --> 00:40:45,443
No more faggots!Denneny: A disease that
only hits gay men,
967
00:40:45,443 --> 00:40:48,184
hits them in their sexuality.
968
00:40:48,184 --> 00:40:50,622
I mean, i-it was like
the perfect metaphor
969
00:40:50,622 --> 00:40:53,842
for the homophobia
of the whole society.
970
00:40:53,842 --> 00:40:55,365
And it did seem to me
971
00:40:55,365 --> 00:40:59,021
that reality
is not supposed to come
972
00:40:59,021 --> 00:41:01,110
already packed
with the metaphors.
973
00:41:01,110 --> 00:41:03,896
You know, it's like
everything we gained was --
974
00:41:03,896 --> 00:41:06,420
looked like it was being
taken away from us again.
975
00:41:06,420 --> 00:41:09,467
I still remember
a relative in Europe...
976
00:41:09,467 --> 00:41:10,816
When they found out
that I was gay,
977
00:41:10,816 --> 00:41:12,382
and they just turned to me
and said,
978
00:41:12,382 --> 00:41:14,036
"Well, AIDS will get you."
979
00:41:14,036 --> 00:41:18,476
♪♪
980
00:41:18,476 --> 00:41:21,087
The timing of it all
was really eerie,
981
00:41:21,087 --> 00:41:23,524
so there is something
uncanny about it.
982
00:41:23,524 --> 00:41:26,484
It's very Shakespearean,
the way that this happened.
983
00:41:26,484 --> 00:41:28,442
To have this breakthrough --
984
00:41:28,442 --> 00:41:33,099
to get this incredible
outpouring, um, of support,
985
00:41:33,099 --> 00:41:36,058
of acceptance, of a community
coming into its own,
986
00:41:36,058 --> 00:41:38,670
of demanding a --
a place at the table,
987
00:41:38,670 --> 00:41:42,108
of having great success
in almost every sector --
988
00:41:42,108 --> 00:41:45,938
and then to just be
wiped out, um,
989
00:41:45,938 --> 00:41:48,810
as if in some diabolical plan.
990
00:41:48,810 --> 00:41:51,987
Willie Brown actually
said this to me early on.
991
00:41:51,987 --> 00:41:55,556
He said something
to the effect of,
992
00:41:55,556 --> 00:41:57,602
"This occurring right now --
993
00:41:57,602 --> 00:41:59,778
with gay rights
just having happened --
994
00:41:59,778 --> 00:42:01,388
would be like
telling black people
995
00:42:01,388 --> 00:42:04,130
they have to go back
to the back of the bus."
996
00:42:05,740 --> 00:42:06,741
[Slaps hands on legs]
997
00:42:06,741 --> 00:42:09,004
♪♪
998
00:42:09,004 --> 00:42:12,704
Darrow:
When I went to interview
the "Out of California" case,
999
00:42:12,704 --> 00:42:14,183
I was very impressed with him.
1000
00:42:14,183 --> 00:42:16,098
He -- He seemed like
an intelligent person.
1001
00:42:16,098 --> 00:42:17,447
He was very well dressed.
1002
00:42:17,447 --> 00:42:19,101
At the time,
he didn't have any hair
1003
00:42:19,101 --> 00:42:23,062
because he had just completed
a round of chemotherapy.
1004
00:42:23,062 --> 00:42:25,151
But he was very concerned
about his condition
1005
00:42:25,151 --> 00:42:28,110
and about the concern
of other people, as well.
1006
00:42:28,110 --> 00:42:30,939
Uh, because many of his friends
in New York City
1007
00:42:30,939 --> 00:42:35,553
and even some in Canada
had very similar symptoms
1008
00:42:35,553 --> 00:42:38,294
to the symptoms
that he was experiencing,
1009
00:42:38,294 --> 00:42:42,211
and some of his friends
were so ill that they had died.
1010
00:42:42,211 --> 00:42:43,909
So he was very cooperative
1011
00:42:43,909 --> 00:42:47,129
when I started asking him
questions about his sex life.
1012
00:42:47,129 --> 00:42:48,914
And I said,
"How about your sex partners?"
1013
00:42:48,914 --> 00:42:50,959
And he says, "Well, I can
remember a few of them,
1014
00:42:50,959 --> 00:42:53,832
but, gee, I've had so many,
and I hope you understand why.
1015
00:42:53,832 --> 00:42:55,573
I'm in a different town
every night.
1016
00:42:55,573 --> 00:42:59,185
I'm a young guy, so I go out
every night and I have fun."
1017
00:42:59,185 --> 00:43:03,581
So he averaged about 250
different sex partners a year.
1018
00:43:03,581 --> 00:43:06,018
I said, "Do you have
an address book?
1019
00:43:06,018 --> 00:43:07,280
Little black book?"
1020
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,108
He says, "I do."
1021
00:43:09,108 --> 00:43:13,329
I said, "Would you mind
sharing the names with me?"
1022
00:43:13,329 --> 00:43:15,114
He said, "No, I'll be glad to."
1023
00:43:15,114 --> 00:43:16,898
And he started reading me notes.
1024
00:43:16,898 --> 00:43:19,379
He read me 72 names
before he said,
1025
00:43:19,379 --> 00:43:21,120
It's 6:30.
I've got to go."
1026
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:23,383
If other people had
the same amount
1027
00:43:23,383 --> 00:43:25,777
of information that he had,
we probably would have been able
1028
00:43:25,777 --> 00:43:27,779
to make many more connections
1029
00:43:27,779 --> 00:43:31,957
and been able to have solved
this jigsaw puzzle
1030
00:43:31,957 --> 00:43:34,307
much faster than we did.
1031
00:43:34,307 --> 00:43:37,484
Here is the Morbidity
and Mortality Weekly Report.
1032
00:43:37,484 --> 00:43:40,618
In this report,
there were no figures.
1033
00:43:40,618 --> 00:43:43,185
There's no graphs,
but there is reference
1034
00:43:43,185 --> 00:43:45,318
to an "out of California" case.
1035
00:43:45,318 --> 00:43:49,104
Everybody gets the idea
that this guy, at that point,
1036
00:43:49,104 --> 00:43:51,716
was the person who brought AIDS
to California.
1037
00:43:51,716 --> 00:43:53,195
That was sort of --
It wasn't called AIDS yet,
1038
00:43:53,195 --> 00:43:54,196
by the way, at this point.
1039
00:43:54,196 --> 00:43:55,502
It was still called GRID.
1040
00:43:55,502 --> 00:43:58,113
GRID -- Gay Related
Immunodeficiency,
1041
00:43:58,113 --> 00:44:02,074
which made the whole disease
seem as though
1042
00:44:02,074 --> 00:44:05,643
it was the result of somebody's
sexual orientation
1043
00:44:05,643 --> 00:44:08,254
rather than action --
1044
00:44:08,254 --> 00:44:09,734
You know, some action
they had taken,
1045
00:44:09,734 --> 00:44:11,561
something they had encountered.
1046
00:44:11,561 --> 00:44:13,172
A microbe.
1047
00:44:13,172 --> 00:44:20,745
♪♪
1048
00:44:20,745 --> 00:44:28,317
♪♪
1049
00:44:28,317 --> 00:44:35,934
♪♪
1050
00:44:35,934 --> 00:44:39,807
We had this hotline
on Castro Street...
1051
00:44:39,807 --> 00:44:41,896
and this patient would turn up.
1052
00:44:41,896 --> 00:44:45,639
The minute he did,
the hotline would light up.
1053
00:44:45,639 --> 00:44:46,640
He's here.
1054
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,077
He's having sex with people.
1055
00:44:49,077 --> 00:44:52,211
He tells them he's --
he, uh, has the gay cancer.
1056
00:44:52,211 --> 00:44:55,040
By the end
of the summer of 1982,
1057
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,696
Kaposi's sarcoma was summoning
a huge amount of attention
1058
00:44:58,696 --> 00:45:01,568
and upset in San Francisco.
1059
00:45:01,568 --> 00:45:04,005
♪♪
1060
00:45:04,005 --> 00:45:07,748
Anybody with KS lesions
who continued to go out
1061
00:45:07,748 --> 00:45:09,619
would draw attention.
1062
00:45:09,619 --> 00:45:12,753
And given that we know
that Gaétan did not like
1063
00:45:12,753 --> 00:45:15,147
to be told what he could
or could not do,
1064
00:45:15,147 --> 00:45:18,846
it seems quite likely
that he would draw attention.
1065
00:45:18,846 --> 00:45:21,936
[Door slams]Gaétan Dugas, uh,
1066
00:45:21,936 --> 00:45:23,285
was very comfortable
1067
00:45:23,285 --> 00:45:25,070
going to various
public health people
1068
00:45:25,070 --> 00:45:27,507
to talk about his disease.
1069
00:45:27,507 --> 00:45:31,554
He met with Selma Dritz,
and according to Selma, uh,
1070
00:45:31,554 --> 00:45:34,122
she counseled him
that he should not have sex --
1071
00:45:34,122 --> 00:45:37,125
that he was, perhaps, dangerous.
1072
00:45:37,125 --> 00:45:39,432
And he said, "You're not
going to tell me
1073
00:45:39,432 --> 00:45:41,216
how I should behave."
1074
00:45:41,216 --> 00:45:44,393
I told him that he was getting
other people sick with it,
1075
00:45:44,393 --> 00:45:48,484
and he said, "It's my right
to do whatever I want.
1076
00:45:48,484 --> 00:45:49,877
My civil rights."
1077
00:45:49,877 --> 00:45:52,358
Gaétan had, uh --
uh, different beliefs
1078
00:45:52,358 --> 00:45:55,230
a-about, uh --
a-a-about his condition.
1079
00:45:55,230 --> 00:45:59,147
Uh, his approach was,
"Show me, prove to me
1080
00:45:59,147 --> 00:46:01,193
how this disease is transmitted,
1081
00:46:01,193 --> 00:46:04,413
and if I'm doing anything
that i-is transmitting it,
1082
00:46:04,413 --> 00:46:05,980
I may acknowledge it --
1083
00:46:05,980 --> 00:46:08,853
if you can prove to me
that this is the case."
1084
00:46:08,853 --> 00:46:11,116
I don't remember
what, uh, triggered me
1085
00:46:11,116 --> 00:46:13,466
to call Air Canada,
but I did call Air Canada.
1086
00:46:13,466 --> 00:46:16,251
I wanted to talk
to the, um, Medical Director
1087
00:46:16,251 --> 00:46:19,341
a-and, um, find out
if there was some way
1088
00:46:19,341 --> 00:46:21,430
to limit his ability to travel.
1089
00:46:21,430 --> 00:46:24,216
A doctor telling us
we've got to start w--
1090
00:46:24,216 --> 00:46:27,436
you know, uh, watching
what we do sexually
1091
00:46:27,436 --> 00:46:29,351
and that there's, you know --
it's -- it's troubled,
1092
00:46:29,351 --> 00:46:32,180
and we gotta, you know,
curtail our activities.
1093
00:46:32,180 --> 00:46:35,575
I totally understood
the f-- terror
1094
00:46:35,575 --> 00:46:39,274
that gay men had about AIDS
pushing us back into the arms
1095
00:46:39,274 --> 00:46:40,841
of the medical establishment.
1096
00:46:40,841 --> 00:46:44,453
It was only in the very
early '70s that, um --
1097
00:46:44,453 --> 00:46:47,761
that, uh, homosexuality
was no longer seen as a disease,
1098
00:46:47,761 --> 00:46:49,023
It was taken out of the, uh --
1099
00:46:49,023 --> 00:46:50,416
the Diagnostic
Statistical Manual
1100
00:46:50,416 --> 00:46:52,679
of the American Psychiatric
Association.
1101
00:46:52,679 --> 00:46:55,508
And so, doctors had always
been trying to cure us.
1102
00:46:55,508 --> 00:46:57,423
A flight attendant in 1982
1103
00:46:57,423 --> 00:46:59,817
looked terrible
on chemotherapy --
1104
00:46:59,817 --> 00:47:01,644
like death warmed over.
1105
00:47:01,644 --> 00:47:04,082
He had lost hair and weight.
1106
00:47:04,082 --> 00:47:07,215
Nonetheless, Dugas' attitude
carried him through.
1107
00:47:07,215 --> 00:47:09,087
He was always hopeful
1108
00:47:09,087 --> 00:47:11,437
and kept saying
he would beat it.
1109
00:47:11,437 --> 00:47:15,093
I can remember sending Gaétan
encouraging letters.
1110
00:47:15,093 --> 00:47:18,661
I have a card that he sent me
in January, 1982,
1111
00:47:18,661 --> 00:47:21,577
when he was feeling depressed
about the loss of hair.
1112
00:47:21,577 --> 00:47:23,797
Saying he feels like an alien.
1113
00:47:23,797 --> 00:47:27,714
♪♪
1114
00:47:27,714 --> 00:47:32,588
96% of all the people
I saw then died.
1115
00:47:34,025 --> 00:47:38,681
Smallpox, Ebola,
only kills 60%...
1116
00:47:38,681 --> 00:47:40,248
and we were talking about --
1117
00:47:40,248 --> 00:47:44,557
virtually everyone
was going to die.
1118
00:47:44,557 --> 00:47:47,995
Had that been happening to
any other group in the society,
1119
00:47:47,995 --> 00:47:50,128
there would have been
massive hysteria
1120
00:47:50,128 --> 00:47:52,521
all over the country, you know?
1121
00:47:52,521 --> 00:47:55,437
And, in fact, what we got
was total silence.
1122
00:47:55,437 --> 00:47:57,787
It's more like what happens
in a war, you know?
1123
00:47:57,787 --> 00:47:59,485
Where, you know,
all of a sudden,
1124
00:47:59,485 --> 00:48:02,401
a whole generation of people,
you know, are put
1125
00:48:02,401 --> 00:48:04,794
in this incredible danger,
and many of them die.
1126
00:48:04,794 --> 00:48:06,753
It was such
an extreme difference
1127
00:48:06,753 --> 00:48:09,582
from people who are like 25
and look 25,
1128
00:48:09,582 --> 00:48:12,759
And then, in five minutes,
they looked 95.
1129
00:48:12,759 --> 00:48:16,763
It -- It's terrible because
it's a slow death, in a way,
1130
00:48:16,763 --> 00:48:20,506
and you see the body
basically decompose
1131
00:48:20,506 --> 00:48:22,943
in front of your face.
1132
00:48:22,943 --> 00:48:26,512
A -- A beautiful man
is turning into...
1133
00:48:28,079 --> 00:48:29,254
...nothing.
1134
00:48:29,254 --> 00:48:30,995
There's a fellow actor...
1135
00:48:30,995 --> 00:48:35,173
uh, named, uh, Joe Cappetta,
1136
00:48:35,173 --> 00:48:37,697
that became ill
and died fairly early on
1137
00:48:37,697 --> 00:48:39,873
who was hospitalized.
1138
00:48:39,873 --> 00:48:41,788
The food service worker
1139
00:48:41,788 --> 00:48:45,705
wouldn't bring his --
his tray into the room.
1140
00:48:45,705 --> 00:48:49,622
Just set it
on the floor outside.
1141
00:48:50,797 --> 00:48:52,233
A lot of hospitals --
1142
00:48:52,233 --> 00:48:53,887
especially outside
of San Francisco --
1143
00:48:53,887 --> 00:48:57,108
they wouldn't let the partner
come visit their lover
1144
00:48:57,108 --> 00:48:59,284
in -- in bed as he was dying
1145
00:48:59,284 --> 00:49:01,460
because he wasn't
a "family member."
1146
00:49:01,460 --> 00:49:02,852
They didn't want you
around at all.
1147
00:49:02,852 --> 00:49:05,681
You -- They were ashamed of you.
1148
00:49:05,681 --> 00:49:08,162
And you did this
to him, probably.
1149
00:49:08,162 --> 00:49:13,428
♪♪
1150
00:49:13,428 --> 00:49:17,824
We were being vilified
by the media,
1151
00:49:17,824 --> 00:49:19,043
by right wing politicians.
1152
00:49:19,043 --> 00:49:21,088
I mean, truly vilified.
1153
00:49:21,088 --> 00:49:22,872
But then, we have to remember
1154
00:49:22,872 --> 00:49:25,832
that there were
mainstream figures
1155
00:49:25,832 --> 00:49:27,877
who suggested
putting gay people --
1156
00:49:27,877 --> 00:49:32,317
people with HIV --
in -- in camps.
1157
00:49:32,317 --> 00:49:36,364
Um, tattooing "HIV"
on -- on our bodies.
1158
00:49:36,364 --> 00:49:38,714
The only way to stop them --
stop it is quarantine people.
1159
00:49:38,714 --> 00:49:40,673
I-I-I don't think
there's any way around it.
1160
00:49:40,673 --> 00:49:42,283
I think they're gonna
have to do it.
1161
00:49:43,284 --> 00:49:46,548
Lovers were thrown out
of their boyfriends' apartments.
1162
00:49:46,548 --> 00:49:48,811
Um, they were not allowed
1163
00:49:48,811 --> 00:49:52,815
to go to the funeral
of their partner who had died.
1164
00:49:52,815 --> 00:49:54,904
Uh, it's -- it's --
1165
00:49:54,904 --> 00:49:57,516
it's really grotesque,
the way that people behave.
1166
00:49:57,516 --> 00:49:58,865
You know, very much
in the same way
1167
00:49:58,865 --> 00:50:02,129
that, in 2016, you said,
1168
00:50:02,129 --> 00:50:04,827
"Who are these people
who voted for that man?"
1169
00:50:04,827 --> 00:50:08,092
You knew who those people were
back then in the 1980s.
1170
00:50:08,092 --> 00:50:09,571
They haven't gone away.
1171
00:50:09,571 --> 00:50:12,531
♪♪
1172
00:50:12,531 --> 00:50:13,923
I mean, the
Reagan Administration
1173
00:50:13,923 --> 00:50:15,969
simply didn't want to
acknowledge the problem.
1174
00:50:15,969 --> 00:50:18,450
It was said at the time --
and I think it's true --
1175
00:50:18,450 --> 00:50:21,583
if the outbreak had occurred
in a heterosexual population,
1176
00:50:21,583 --> 00:50:22,976
they would be all over it.
1177
00:50:22,976 --> 00:50:24,630
But it was easy
to marginalize gay men
1178
00:50:24,630 --> 00:50:27,937
at the time and say,
"Well, who cares?"
1179
00:50:27,937 --> 00:50:29,939
There was an interview
done with Larry Speakes,
1180
00:50:29,939 --> 00:50:32,812
who was the Press Secretary
to President Reagan,
1181
00:50:32,812 --> 00:50:34,466
where he was asked about
the AIDS epidemic.
1182
00:50:34,466 --> 00:50:36,120
And he said, "What's that?"
1183
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:46,043
♪♪
1184
00:50:46,043 --> 00:50:55,965
♪♪
1185
00:50:55,965 --> 00:51:05,888
♪♪
1186
00:51:05,888 --> 00:51:06,976
[Laughter, groaning]
1187
00:51:36,789 --> 00:51:38,182
[Laughter]
1188
00:51:39,357 --> 00:51:41,228
[Echoing laughter fades]
1189
00:51:43,317 --> 00:51:45,450
♪♪
1190
00:51:45,450 --> 00:51:48,757
Patient Zero was clearly
a very helpful person to us.
1191
00:51:48,757 --> 00:51:50,455
He didn't have to be.
He didn't have to give us
1192
00:51:50,455 --> 00:51:52,109
the names of his sex
partners, but he did,
1193
00:51:52,109 --> 00:51:54,850
and that turned out
to be extremely useful
1194
00:51:54,850 --> 00:51:57,723
because it allowed Bill Darrow
to contact those people,
1195
00:51:57,723 --> 00:51:59,072
follow up on them,
1196
00:51:59,072 --> 00:52:00,726
find out who else
they had sex with,
1197
00:52:00,726 --> 00:52:02,815
and construct the cluster.
1198
00:52:02,815 --> 00:52:06,819
But then, we wanted to see
how far the cluster went.
1199
00:52:06,819 --> 00:52:09,691
We only had information
about Los Angeles
1200
00:52:09,691 --> 00:52:12,346
and this one
Out of California Case.
1201
00:52:12,346 --> 00:52:15,610
So I went up to New York,
and I followed up
1202
00:52:15,610 --> 00:52:19,005
on the 72 different
partners that he named.
1203
00:52:19,005 --> 00:52:21,703
The important thing
was to try to show
1204
00:52:21,703 --> 00:52:24,619
that there were connections
between Los Angeles cases
1205
00:52:24,619 --> 00:52:27,448
and cases in other parts
of the United States.
1206
00:52:27,448 --> 00:52:29,189
Here's the original drawing
1207
00:52:29,189 --> 00:52:33,541
on a piece of, um,
yellow paper...
1208
00:52:33,541 --> 00:52:36,588
about Case 57,
1209
00:52:36,588 --> 00:52:39,808
which was the person
later referred to
1210
00:52:39,808 --> 00:52:42,420
as the Out of California Case
1211
00:52:42,420 --> 00:52:44,900
and a drawing
showing connections.
1212
00:52:44,900 --> 00:52:48,730
Two exposures
with a case in 1979.
1213
00:52:48,730 --> 00:52:52,038
Um, a case -- Case Number 40.
1214
00:52:52,038 --> 00:52:54,606
Um, here he is going to Toronto.
1215
00:52:54,606 --> 00:52:56,260
Here he is at NYU.
1216
00:52:56,260 --> 00:52:59,001
So, here, "Case 57 is described
1217
00:52:59,001 --> 00:53:02,440
as a 30-year-old
flight attendant from Toronto."
1218
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:04,311
[Engines roaring]Levaque: I lost contact
1219
00:53:04,311 --> 00:53:06,226
with Gaétan for a while
1220
00:53:06,226 --> 00:53:09,011
the moment he --
he left for Vancouver.
1221
00:53:09,011 --> 00:53:11,405
And I saw him once.
1222
00:53:11,405 --> 00:53:13,364
He was running
through the terminal.
1223
00:53:13,364 --> 00:53:16,584
And we embrace, and we chat,
1224
00:53:16,584 --> 00:53:19,848
but he had very, very short hair
at the time.
1225
00:53:19,848 --> 00:53:22,938
He had a few spots on his face.
1226
00:53:22,938 --> 00:53:25,114
And I noticed that there was
a fairly common theme
1227
00:53:25,114 --> 00:53:28,553
that, e-essentially,
Gaétan in Vancouver
1228
00:53:28,553 --> 00:53:31,599
was the personage --
the face of AIDS,
1229
00:53:31,599 --> 00:53:33,949
a-and it just seemed
so ludicrous.
1230
00:53:33,949 --> 00:53:37,431
There were stories that Gaétan
was having unprotected sex
1231
00:53:37,431 --> 00:53:39,868
with, uh, other --
other people.
1232
00:53:39,868 --> 00:53:42,393
And i-it was, uh --
h-he was reported
1233
00:53:42,393 --> 00:53:43,698
that he was in the bars
1234
00:53:43,698 --> 00:53:44,873
and he was going home
with people,
1235
00:53:44,873 --> 00:53:46,310
and this sort of thing.
1236
00:53:46,310 --> 00:53:48,355
And AIDS Vancouver
felt like they needed
1237
00:53:48,355 --> 00:53:50,792
to have some kind of response
to address what --
1238
00:53:50,792 --> 00:53:52,664
what these rumors represented.
1239
00:53:52,664 --> 00:53:55,928
I do remember specifically
having a conversation with him
1240
00:53:55,928 --> 00:53:59,671
about promiscuity
and bathhouses and etc., etc.
1241
00:53:59,671 --> 00:54:02,326
He said, "You know,
people just don't get it,
1242
00:54:02,326 --> 00:54:05,067
eh, because if I was
in the bathhouses
1243
00:54:05,067 --> 00:54:07,331
the way they say that
I'm in the bathhouses,
1244
00:54:07,331 --> 00:54:09,768
I'd be exposing myself
to all kinds of random,
1245
00:54:09,768 --> 00:54:11,726
opportunistic infections.
1246
00:54:11,726 --> 00:54:14,251
I have --
I don't know m-much about it,
1247
00:54:14,251 --> 00:54:16,340
but I learned when I did go
to the bathhouses
1248
00:54:16,340 --> 00:54:19,256
or have a lot of casual sex,
I used to come down with things,
1249
00:54:19,256 --> 00:54:20,996
and they were
hard to get rid of,
1250
00:54:20,996 --> 00:54:22,389
so I just stopped doing it."
1251
00:54:22,389 --> 00:54:24,652
He wasn't having casual sex.
1252
00:54:24,652 --> 00:54:25,871
Good evening.
1253
00:54:25,871 --> 00:54:27,655
I'm Michael Papas
with Channel 10
1254
00:54:27,655 --> 00:54:29,091
"Gayblevision Vancouver."
1255
00:54:29,091 --> 00:54:31,746
There was a recent panel
discussion in Vancouver.
1256
00:54:31,746 --> 00:54:33,705
on the panel were doctors
and other men
1257
00:54:33,705 --> 00:54:36,055
associated with
the AIDS problem.
1258
00:54:36,055 --> 00:54:37,709
An overflow crowd attended,
1259
00:54:37,709 --> 00:54:39,928
seeking information
and other advice
1260
00:54:39,928 --> 00:54:42,931
as to how to deal with
the AIDS problem in Vancouver.
1261
00:54:42,931 --> 00:54:44,281
On the panel that evening
1262
00:54:44,281 --> 00:54:46,935
was Dr. Brian Willoughby,
who explained.
1263
00:54:46,935 --> 00:54:48,676
AIDS --
the -- the disease
1264
00:54:48,676 --> 00:54:50,461
we're here to talk
about today, then --
1265
00:54:50,461 --> 00:54:53,768
is a new phenomenon
wherein people's ability
1266
00:54:53,768 --> 00:54:56,336
to fight infection
is defective.
1267
00:54:56,336 --> 00:54:58,295
They had brought in a v--
uh, a person
1268
00:54:58,295 --> 00:55:01,210
from the Gay Men's Health Crisis
in New York City.
1269
00:55:01,210 --> 00:55:05,519
What brings me here is our
concern over an epidemic
1270
00:55:05,519 --> 00:55:07,869
that is killing
gay men...
1271
00:55:07,869 --> 00:55:09,567
all over the world,
1272
00:55:09,567 --> 00:55:12,221
The doctors presented as much,
I think, as they knew,
1273
00:55:12,221 --> 00:55:14,702
and I -- my recollection is,
they tried to be
1274
00:55:14,702 --> 00:55:16,443
pretty scrupulous
about what they didn't know.
1275
00:55:16,443 --> 00:55:18,750
So, one of the things
you can do
1276
00:55:18,750 --> 00:55:22,101
to decrease your risk
of contracting AIDS
1277
00:55:22,101 --> 00:55:25,322
is to decrease the number
of different sexual partners.
1278
00:55:25,322 --> 00:55:27,585
There was almost disbelief
in the room
1279
00:55:27,585 --> 00:55:29,674
that that was something
that we needed to do,
1280
00:55:29,674 --> 00:55:32,329
because it was a New York thing
or a San Francisco thing.
1281
00:55:32,329 --> 00:55:34,026
It wasn't a Vancouver thing.
1282
00:55:34,026 --> 00:55:35,941
The things we do
know about it
1283
00:55:35,941 --> 00:55:39,901
in terms of
who suffers from it...
1284
00:55:39,901 --> 00:55:43,557
certainly suggests that it is
some kind of infection.
1285
00:55:43,557 --> 00:55:47,082
We, the panel, talked
for maybe about an hour --
1286
00:55:47,082 --> 00:55:49,476
you know,
10 or 15 minutes each --
1287
00:55:49,476 --> 00:55:51,783
and then the floor
was open for questions.
1288
00:55:58,659 --> 00:56:00,487
Popham: Can I -- Can I
take this question?
1289
00:56:00,487 --> 00:56:02,315
[Indistinct chatter]
1290
00:56:03,838 --> 00:56:05,971
Screwing around didn't --
1291
00:56:05,971 --> 00:56:07,538
doesn't give somebody AIDS.
1292
00:56:07,538 --> 00:56:09,191
I mean, it does, and it doesn't.
1293
00:56:09,191 --> 00:56:11,063
In other words,
every contact you have,
1294
00:56:11,063 --> 00:56:14,196
you're increasing your
opportunity of being infected
1295
00:56:14,196 --> 00:56:16,764
if, in fact,
this is a contagious agent,
1296
00:56:16,764 --> 00:56:18,505
which has never
been proven.
1297
00:56:18,505 --> 00:56:21,334
I believe there's some
kind of, um, tests
1298
00:56:21,334 --> 00:56:23,162
being done on AIDS
in Vancouver.
1299
00:56:23,162 --> 00:56:26,252
Attending that forum
af-affected my life
1300
00:56:26,252 --> 00:56:28,167
very, very distinctly
1301
00:56:28,167 --> 00:56:31,605
in as much as the concept
of safe sex was introduced.
1302
00:56:31,605 --> 00:56:33,912
And I started
to practice safe sex,
1303
00:56:33,912 --> 00:56:35,653
which is maybe perhaps
one of the reasons
1304
00:56:35,653 --> 00:56:37,263
that I'm still here today.
1305
00:56:37,263 --> 00:56:41,615
And probably the third
or fourth person to get up
1306
00:56:41,615 --> 00:56:44,226
had a French Canadian accent.
1307
00:56:44,226 --> 00:56:47,969
A man went up to the mic.
1308
00:56:47,969 --> 00:56:49,623
I only saw him from the back.
1309
00:56:49,623 --> 00:56:50,929
And that was Gaétan.
1310
00:57:07,685 --> 00:57:09,643
It was a little difficult
to understand exactly --
1311
00:57:09,643 --> 00:57:11,819
some of the concepts
he was trying to convey,
1312
00:57:11,819 --> 00:57:15,170
but what I appreciated
about his interaction there
1313
00:57:15,170 --> 00:57:17,346
was that he was
standing up for himself.
1314
00:57:29,750 --> 00:57:32,144
He s-sort of took the tone,
1315
00:57:32,144 --> 00:57:35,147
"How can you sit up there
advising people
1316
00:57:35,147 --> 00:57:38,498
to have less sexual partners
to avoid an infectious agent
1317
00:57:38,498 --> 00:57:40,065
when you don't even know
that this is caused
1318
00:57:40,065 --> 00:57:41,675
by an infectious agent?"
1319
00:57:41,675 --> 00:57:45,592
Which, on face,
is a valid question.
1320
00:57:48,726 --> 00:57:50,162
Okay, hey --
1321
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:56,168
And studies
indicate that --
1322
00:57:56,168 --> 00:57:58,866
And it's not everybody.
1323
00:57:58,866 --> 00:58:01,608
So there is a -- a chance
of risk involved,
1324
00:58:01,608 --> 00:58:04,829
but the majority of the people
are fairly promiscuous.
1325
00:58:04,829 --> 00:58:06,744
[Overlapping,
indistinct argument]
1326
00:58:06,744 --> 00:58:09,660
It wasn't my place to say,
"Get him off the mic,"
1327
00:58:09,660 --> 00:58:12,489
but I could tell that we were --
that it was turning into
1328
00:58:12,489 --> 00:58:13,794
not a public
information session,
1329
00:58:13,794 --> 00:58:17,494
but a --a kind of battle.
1330
00:58:17,494 --> 00:58:19,452
It is speculation,
but --
1331
00:58:19,452 --> 00:58:22,803
It got to the place
where I thought...
1332
00:58:22,803 --> 00:58:24,152
[Inhales deeply]
1333
00:58:24,152 --> 00:58:25,980
"Thhhhhhhh...
1334
00:58:25,980 --> 00:58:27,895
This is not really good."
1335
00:58:27,895 --> 00:58:33,771
So I leaned over to Jeff Maines
and said, "You know,
1336
00:58:33,771 --> 00:58:38,819
we need -- you need to get him
off the microphone soon,
1337
00:58:38,819 --> 00:58:42,606
or he will destroy whatever good
we may have done
1338
00:58:42,606 --> 00:58:45,696
over the last hour
with these questions."
1339
00:58:59,100 --> 00:59:00,885
And I think what was interesting
1340
00:59:00,885 --> 00:59:03,931
about Gaétan's attitude
towards that is that, in a way,
1341
00:59:03,931 --> 00:59:06,064
he did not want to change
his sexual behavior
1342
00:59:06,064 --> 00:59:08,545
because there was
no s-- clear proof.
1343
00:59:08,545 --> 00:59:11,635
And...so, again,
1344
00:59:11,635 --> 00:59:13,898
I think because he was a--
he was this target
1345
00:59:13,898 --> 00:59:16,640
for so many people, he was say--
he was saying to them,
1346
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,207
"Prove to me
that this is how you get it,
1347
00:59:19,207 --> 00:59:20,557
and then I'll change
my behavior.
1348
00:59:20,557 --> 00:59:22,515
But until you can prove that,
1349
00:59:22,515 --> 00:59:24,212
I'm not gonna change anything."
1350
00:59:25,953 --> 00:59:28,782
"I remember, after
one medical setback,
1351
00:59:28,782 --> 00:59:30,828
holding him in his apartment
1352
00:59:30,828 --> 00:59:34,875
and him telling me that
he wasn't afraid of being dead.
1353
00:59:34,875 --> 00:59:37,443
He was just scared of dying.
1354
00:59:37,443 --> 00:59:39,445
He never expressed
any great sense
1355
00:59:39,445 --> 00:59:41,186
that life had been unjust.
1356
00:59:41,186 --> 00:59:44,015
He just seemed determined
to make the best
1357
00:59:44,015 --> 00:59:46,104
of whatever time he had left."
1358
00:59:46,104 --> 00:59:48,323
♪♪
1359
00:59:48,323 --> 00:59:51,718
Bisson:
I thought it was very brave
of him to still be working.
1360
00:59:51,718 --> 00:59:55,330
He'd taken some time off,
and then he'd come back.
1361
00:59:55,330 --> 00:59:58,333
I think that was -- He came back
for a last period,
1362
00:59:58,333 --> 01:00:00,945
and when he did come back,
he actually looked great.
1363
01:00:00,945 --> 01:00:03,512
He was in a good mood,
giggling like he always did.
1364
01:00:03,512 --> 01:00:05,079
"Dar- ling."
1365
01:00:05,079 --> 01:00:07,386
Gaétan was having trouble
making it to flights,
1366
01:00:07,386 --> 01:00:09,518
and he was booking off
last-minute
1367
01:00:09,518 --> 01:00:13,000
because he was starting
to feel too ill to work.
1368
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:15,916
More than anything,
he wanted to keep flying.
1369
01:00:15,916 --> 01:00:18,223
He didn't want to be
booked off sick.
1370
01:00:18,223 --> 01:00:20,312
He loved flying.
That was his family.
1371
01:00:20,312 --> 01:00:21,661
That was his freedom.
1372
01:00:21,661 --> 01:00:24,751
We didn't know
who would survive this
1373
01:00:24,751 --> 01:00:26,231
or who wouldn't survive this.
1374
01:00:26,231 --> 01:00:27,711
It was possible
that, you know,
1375
01:00:27,711 --> 01:00:30,061
things were going
to work for him.
1376
01:00:30,061 --> 01:00:33,542
And so, um, consequently,
I just met him in that spirit.
1377
01:00:33,542 --> 01:00:36,545
And, you know, we both giggled,
and as we were giggling,
1378
01:00:36,545 --> 01:00:39,636
I just, you know, uh,
touched up his makeup,
1379
01:00:39,636 --> 01:00:41,725
because I could see that
it hadn't been
1380
01:00:41,725 --> 01:00:44,553
properly applied, you know?
1381
01:00:44,553 --> 01:00:46,643
It was too cakey, as well.
1382
01:00:46,643 --> 01:00:48,427
I remember it being too cakey
1383
01:00:48,427 --> 01:00:50,298
more than not covering
the lesion.
1384
01:00:50,298 --> 01:00:52,649
He'd covered the lesion,
but, you know,
1385
01:00:52,649 --> 01:00:54,738
just a softer look.
[Laughs]
1386
01:00:55,782 --> 01:00:58,350
That was the last time
I saw him.
1387
01:00:58,350 --> 01:01:00,265
I didn't see him after that.
1388
01:01:00,265 --> 01:01:04,443
♪♪
1389
01:01:04,443 --> 01:01:07,968
[Church bell tolling slowly]
1390
01:01:07,968 --> 01:01:11,668
[Birds chirping]
1391
01:01:15,454 --> 01:01:17,064
♪♪
1392
01:01:17,064 --> 01:01:19,153
Key to the success
of the cluster study
1393
01:01:19,153 --> 01:01:22,722
was the cooperation
of Case 57, Gaétan Dugas,
1394
01:01:22,722 --> 01:01:24,419
whose personal sexual network
1395
01:01:24,419 --> 01:01:27,118
extended to a large number
of men in many cities.
1396
01:01:27,118 --> 01:01:30,556
For me, the cluster study, um,
1397
01:01:30,556 --> 01:01:35,213
is a very interesting landmark
scientifically
1398
01:01:35,213 --> 01:01:39,913
'cause it really helped, um,
convince the world
1399
01:01:39,913 --> 01:01:42,437
that this was a sexually
transmitted disease.
1400
01:01:42,437 --> 01:01:47,399
'Cause here, you have
this cluster of patients
1401
01:01:47,399 --> 01:01:52,839
who are connected by lines
which reflect sexual contact.
1402
01:01:52,839 --> 01:01:56,843
So, this shows 40 men
1403
01:01:56,843 --> 01:01:58,976
who were eventually linked
1404
01:01:58,976 --> 01:02:03,197
by sexual contact
by their diagnosis.
1405
01:02:03,197 --> 01:02:06,244
And the person
who connected cases
1406
01:02:06,244 --> 01:02:08,376
from both the west
and the east
1407
01:02:08,376 --> 01:02:11,075
is shown in the middle
of this diagram.
1408
01:02:11,075 --> 01:02:15,122
And he has links
to eight different men --
1409
01:02:15,122 --> 01:02:18,517
four on the West Coast,
four on the East Coast.
1410
01:02:18,517 --> 01:02:20,606
This is the person
that we called
1411
01:02:20,606 --> 01:02:23,348
the Out of California Case.
1412
01:02:23,348 --> 01:02:25,219
Later on...
1413
01:02:25,219 --> 01:02:28,875
we tried to show these cases
by early onset,
1414
01:02:28,875 --> 01:02:31,748
and you'll see that this
Out of California Case
1415
01:02:31,748 --> 01:02:34,533
was one of two, four, six
1416
01:02:34,533 --> 01:02:38,058
who had symptom onset
before 1980.
1417
01:02:38,058 --> 01:02:40,060
So he was an early case,
1418
01:02:40,060 --> 01:02:43,107
but he wasn't necessarily
the earliest case
1419
01:02:43,107 --> 01:02:47,067
in this cluster
of 40 different men.
1420
01:02:47,067 --> 01:02:49,853
He originally was called
Patient 57,
1421
01:02:49,853 --> 01:02:54,901
then "Patient O"
for Out of California Case.
1422
01:02:54,901 --> 01:02:57,208
And that's the way
it was shown and displayed
1423
01:02:57,208 --> 01:02:59,645
to my colleagues at CDC.
1424
01:02:59,645 --> 01:03:03,736
Few months later, everybody's
talking about "Patient Zero,"
1425
01:03:03,736 --> 01:03:06,913
and I don't know
what they're talking about.
1426
01:03:06,913 --> 01:03:09,176
"Who are you talking about?
Patient Zero?"
1427
01:03:09,176 --> 01:03:10,525
"Come on, Darrow.
1428
01:03:10,525 --> 01:03:12,266
You were the one
who told us about him."
1429
01:03:12,266 --> 01:03:15,052
"I told you about Patient 57
1430
01:03:15,052 --> 01:03:17,097
or the
Out of California Case --
1431
01:03:17,097 --> 01:03:19,099
Patient O."
1432
01:03:19,099 --> 01:03:20,666
"Oh, that was an "O"?
1433
01:03:20,666 --> 01:03:22,755
We thought it was a zero."
1434
01:03:22,755 --> 01:03:25,889
♪♪
1435
01:03:25,889 --> 01:03:31,633
The "Zero" lost association, uh,
with "Out of California"
1436
01:03:31,633 --> 01:03:35,289
and then began to communicate
other meanings --
1437
01:03:35,289 --> 01:03:36,943
particularly the association
1438
01:03:36,943 --> 01:03:39,946
with zero
as absolute beginning --
1439
01:03:39,946 --> 01:03:42,993
but one with
profound consequences
1440
01:03:42,993 --> 01:03:46,170
for how the term
was subsequently understood.
1441
01:03:48,259 --> 01:03:54,091
♪♪
1442
01:03:54,091 --> 01:03:59,966
♪♪
1443
01:03:59,966 --> 01:04:02,055
I think, right now,
AIDS is nine parts politics
1444
01:04:02,055 --> 01:04:04,666
and one part science,
so writing about the science
1445
01:04:04,666 --> 01:04:06,233
and the elegant genetics
of the AIDS virus
1446
01:04:06,233 --> 01:04:07,756
misses the point.
1447
01:04:07,756 --> 01:04:09,454
The point right now is,
we're not getting treatments
1448
01:04:09,454 --> 01:04:10,672
because of
political problems,
1449
01:04:10,672 --> 01:04:12,152
and that's not
being written about.
1450
01:04:12,152 --> 01:04:13,545
I think it's
important to say
1451
01:04:13,545 --> 01:04:16,548
that until the epidemic
started occurring
1452
01:04:16,548 --> 01:04:18,332
outside of
the gay community,
1453
01:04:18,332 --> 01:04:19,638
that the
mainstream media
1454
01:04:19,638 --> 01:04:21,205
largely wasn't
paying attention to it.
1455
01:04:21,205 --> 01:04:23,033
You've got to remember
that the problem here
1456
01:04:23,033 --> 01:04:25,426
is that we're moving slow
in a situation
1457
01:04:25,426 --> 01:04:27,341
where the enemy is time.
1458
01:04:27,341 --> 01:04:29,604
Because the more time
you give an epidemic,
1459
01:04:29,604 --> 01:04:31,128
the more it's gonna spread.
1460
01:04:31,128 --> 01:04:32,564
Reporter 3:
In the early '80s,
1461
01:04:32,564 --> 01:04:34,696
Randy Shilts was
the only newspaper reporter
1462
01:04:34,696 --> 01:04:37,612
writing regularly about
the spreading AIDS epidemic.
1463
01:04:37,612 --> 01:04:41,094
And I think I felt
more of a responsibility, uh,
1464
01:04:41,094 --> 01:04:43,227
and a determination
to report on AIDS
1465
01:04:43,227 --> 01:04:44,489
'cause, to me,
AIDS wasn't something
1466
01:04:44,489 --> 01:04:46,099
that just happened
to other people.
1467
01:04:46,099 --> 01:04:47,884
It happened to -- to people
I knew and I care about.
1468
01:04:47,884 --> 01:04:50,756
He felt that he was
the only person
1469
01:04:50,756 --> 01:04:53,280
that could report on this,
that could deal with this,
1470
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:56,675
and -- and highlight it
and show what it was becoming,
1471
01:04:56,675 --> 01:04:58,503
uh, 'cause none
of the other media outlets
1472
01:04:58,503 --> 01:05:00,461
were reporting on it.
1473
01:05:00,461 --> 01:05:01,941
Denneny:
I was very proud of him.
1474
01:05:01,941 --> 01:05:05,249
He forced the "Chronicle"
to let him cover it
1475
01:05:05,249 --> 01:05:06,685
when virtually --
1476
01:05:06,685 --> 01:05:08,861
eh, there was
nobody else covering it
1477
01:05:08,861 --> 01:05:11,559
basically on a daily,
weekly basis.
1478
01:05:11,559 --> 01:05:13,083
When you go back
to the history,
1479
01:05:13,083 --> 01:05:15,172
the alpha and the omega
of the AIDS epidemic
1480
01:05:15,172 --> 01:05:17,000
is the Rock Hudson diagnosis.
1481
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:19,611
That wakens the public
and really wakens the media.
1482
01:05:19,611 --> 01:05:21,221
The media starts covering it.
1483
01:05:21,221 --> 01:05:23,006
I think it was also
perceived at the time
1484
01:05:23,006 --> 01:05:24,572
that Rock Hudson
was heterosexual,
1485
01:05:24,572 --> 01:05:26,096
which he wasn't.
1486
01:05:26,096 --> 01:05:27,706
And people said,
"Well, if Rock Hudson
1487
01:05:27,706 --> 01:05:30,448
could get it,
I could get it."
1488
01:05:30,448 --> 01:05:32,972
Shilts:
What happens then is a story
of -- of national failure,
1489
01:05:32,972 --> 01:05:35,061
and it gets to the central
thesis of my book,
1490
01:05:35,061 --> 01:05:36,802
which is that AIDS
didn't just happen.
1491
01:05:36,802 --> 01:05:38,630
It was allowedto happen.
1492
01:05:38,630 --> 01:05:40,414
"And the Band Played On" is
the natural outgrowth, really,
1493
01:05:40,414 --> 01:05:42,112
of the articles
that Randy's writing
1494
01:05:42,112 --> 01:05:43,417
at the
"San Francisco Chronicle."
1495
01:05:43,417 --> 01:05:45,637
I think he could see that
this was a issue
1496
01:05:45,637 --> 01:05:48,335
bigger than a -- what
a daily newspaper could cover.
1497
01:05:48,335 --> 01:05:50,772
Randy Shilts really
went out of his way
1498
01:05:50,772 --> 01:05:54,559
to, um, carefully document
in detail --
1499
01:05:54,559 --> 01:05:56,213
in excruciating detail --
1500
01:05:56,213 --> 01:06:00,695
the moral, ethical,
and criminal negligence
1501
01:06:00,695 --> 01:06:02,349
of the Reagan Administration.
1502
01:06:02,349 --> 01:06:05,570
Randy Shilts came to CDC
as a newspaper reporter
1503
01:06:05,570 --> 01:06:07,572
for the
"San Francisco Chronicle"
1504
01:06:07,572 --> 01:06:09,791
early in the epidemic and
interviewed a number of us --
1505
01:06:09,791 --> 01:06:11,315
Jim, me, and others.
1506
01:06:11,315 --> 01:06:14,100
He attended virtually
every AIDS meeting
1507
01:06:14,100 --> 01:06:15,319
in the United States.
1508
01:06:15,319 --> 01:06:16,929
He was always there
1509
01:06:16,929 --> 01:06:18,365
and always
interviewing people.
1510
01:06:18,365 --> 01:06:19,888
I mean, I was probably
interviewed by him
1511
01:06:19,888 --> 01:06:21,673
dozens of times.
1512
01:06:21,673 --> 01:06:25,416
He asked me a lot of questions
about the cluster study
1513
01:06:25,416 --> 01:06:28,288
and Patient Zero and so forth.
1514
01:06:28,288 --> 01:06:31,683
Eh, Randy Shilts did what
any good reporter would do
1515
01:06:31,683 --> 01:06:33,990
in tracking down Patient Zero.
1516
01:06:33,990 --> 01:06:37,384
Well, here's a story of this guy
that's coming to San Francisco
1517
01:06:37,384 --> 01:06:39,212
and being identified.
1518
01:06:39,212 --> 01:06:41,432
The -- the hotline's
lighting up.
1519
01:06:41,432 --> 01:06:43,695
People are talking about him
all over town.
1520
01:06:43,695 --> 01:06:46,828
What journalists wouldn't
try to find out who that was?
1521
01:06:46,828 --> 01:06:49,222
I've talked to
Marcus Conant about this,
1522
01:06:49,222 --> 01:06:53,270
and he confirms that Randy
asked him several times,
1523
01:06:53,270 --> 01:06:55,272
was narrowing
things down slowly,
1524
01:06:55,272 --> 01:06:56,882
and then called him back
and said,
1525
01:06:56,882 --> 01:06:59,058
"I don't need your help.
I've figured out who it is."
1526
01:06:59,058 --> 01:07:02,192
Shilts' interview notes are
headed with a boxed inscription.
1527
01:07:02,192 --> 01:07:04,629
"Gaétan is Patient Zero."
1528
01:07:04,629 --> 01:07:09,329
I remember the moment that Randy
became aware of Gaétan
1529
01:07:09,329 --> 01:07:12,898
and how all the s--
1530
01:07:12,898 --> 01:07:15,422
charts [Laughs] c-came
back to him.
1531
01:07:15,422 --> 01:07:17,903
The researchers from the CDC
1532
01:07:17,903 --> 01:07:21,254
were able to track down Gaétan,
and through his cooperation --
1533
01:07:21,254 --> 01:07:24,605
and he was very cooperative
with the CDC researchers --
1534
01:07:24,605 --> 01:07:27,391
were able to establish
sexual links
1535
01:07:27,391 --> 01:07:30,133
between 40 of the first
248 gay men
1536
01:07:30,133 --> 01:07:32,135
who were diagnosed with AIDS
in the United States.
1537
01:07:32,135 --> 01:07:35,486
That's when I realized, not only
was he going to use my name
1538
01:07:35,486 --> 01:07:39,620
and the name -- names
of other government employees,
1539
01:07:39,620 --> 01:07:42,145
but he was also going to...
1540
01:07:42,145 --> 01:07:45,322
name patients.
1541
01:07:45,322 --> 01:07:47,280
And I told him,
"No, don't do this.
1542
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:50,196
This is not a good idea.
1543
01:07:50,196 --> 01:07:52,938
You shouldn't
name Patient Zero."
1544
01:07:52,938 --> 01:07:56,159
Randy responded,
"I've got to do it.
1545
01:07:57,377 --> 01:08:00,206
The government's not gonna
do anything about this problem
1546
01:08:00,206 --> 01:08:02,165
unless I name names."
1547
01:08:02,165 --> 01:08:04,167
By using everybody's name
in this book --
1548
01:08:04,167 --> 01:08:05,646
and I use everybody's name;
1549
01:08:05,646 --> 01:08:07,257
he's not singled out at all --
1550
01:08:07,257 --> 01:08:09,085
I think I make it --
put the disease
1551
01:08:09,085 --> 01:08:11,348
on much more of a human scale.
1552
01:08:11,348 --> 01:08:14,438
The publicist
working on the book --
1553
01:08:14,438 --> 01:08:17,267
a young woman named Diane --
came up to my office
1554
01:08:17,267 --> 01:08:19,921
on Friday afternoon
in tears, saying,
1555
01:08:19,921 --> 01:08:21,575
"We're gonna" --
1556
01:08:21,575 --> 01:08:24,012
You know, "We're not gonna
get any publicity.
1557
01:08:24,012 --> 01:08:27,103
Everybody thinks
it's been covered.
1558
01:08:27,103 --> 01:08:28,974
They don't want to cover it.
1559
01:08:28,974 --> 01:08:30,976
They're seeing it
mainly as an attack
1560
01:08:30,976 --> 01:08:33,152
on the Reagan Administration
1561
01:08:33,152 --> 01:08:36,547
and on the medical
establishment -- the CDC."
1562
01:08:36,547 --> 01:08:37,896
[Pops lips]
I panicked.
1563
01:08:37,896 --> 01:08:40,028
I called up
an ex-boyfriend of mine
1564
01:08:40,028 --> 01:08:42,205
who happened to be a publicist,
1565
01:08:42,205 --> 01:08:44,555
and I said, "John, I know
you're out of work,
1566
01:08:44,555 --> 01:08:46,122
so you have time on your hands.
1567
01:08:46,122 --> 01:08:48,298
I'm in big trouble.
1568
01:08:48,298 --> 01:08:51,823
I need you to spend the weekend
reading this manuscript."
1569
01:08:51,823 --> 01:08:53,520
And he suggested the following,
1570
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:56,915
which I thought
was extraordinarily clever.
1571
01:08:56,915 --> 01:09:00,571
"The Band Played On,"
the story of Patient Zero
1572
01:09:00,571 --> 01:09:06,316
comes up on 11 pages
out of a 620-page book.
1573
01:09:06,316 --> 01:09:09,232
He's only mentioned
in 11 pages.
1574
01:09:09,232 --> 01:09:12,539
And he said,
"You pull this material out,
1575
01:09:12,539 --> 01:09:14,019
you gathered it together,
1576
01:09:14,019 --> 01:09:17,196
and you present it
to the "New York Post,"
1577
01:09:17,196 --> 01:09:20,373
a miserably
homophobic newspaper.
1578
01:09:20,373 --> 01:09:22,245
This story has
everything they want.
1579
01:09:22,245 --> 01:09:25,030
It has beauty.
It has death.
1580
01:09:25,030 --> 01:09:27,641
You know,
he's an airline steward,
1581
01:09:27,641 --> 01:09:30,427
and best of all,
he's a foreigner.
1582
01:09:30,427 --> 01:09:32,820
He said,
"They're gonna eat it up."
1583
01:09:32,820 --> 01:09:34,518
Randy hated the idea.
1584
01:09:34,518 --> 01:09:37,869
I called him Monday night
after talking with my friend,
1585
01:09:37,869 --> 01:09:39,523
and he was appalled.
1586
01:09:39,523 --> 01:09:41,742
And he said, you know,
"This is yellow journalism."
1587
01:09:41,742 --> 01:09:43,179
I said, Yeah."
1588
01:09:43,179 --> 01:09:44,832
But I said,
"If we don't do this,
1589
01:09:44,832 --> 01:09:48,488
you're gonna sell 4,000
or 5,000 copies of this book
1590
01:09:48,488 --> 01:09:50,838
basically to gay people.
1591
01:09:50,838 --> 01:09:54,015
It's gonna have no impact,
you know, on the media.
1592
01:09:54,015 --> 01:09:55,539
It's gonna have no impact
1593
01:09:55,539 --> 01:09:58,672
on the national, uh,
medical establishment,
1594
01:09:58,672 --> 01:10:00,152
and it's not gonna do
1595
01:10:00,152 --> 01:10:03,808
what the function
of this book is to do,
1596
01:10:03,808 --> 01:10:06,941
which is to put this
on the national agenda."
1597
01:10:06,941 --> 01:10:09,248
And he finally agreed.
1598
01:10:09,248 --> 01:10:12,599
W-- Very, very reluctantly.
1599
01:10:12,599 --> 01:10:16,429
And we presented to the "Post,"
and they fell for it.
1600
01:10:16,429 --> 01:10:19,127
It was like cultural judo
1601
01:10:19,127 --> 01:10:22,783
where you were using
the strength of your enemy
1602
01:10:22,783 --> 01:10:24,350
to get your own...
1603
01:10:26,091 --> 01:10:27,658
...end.
1604
01:10:27,658 --> 01:10:30,051
And, essentially,
that's what we did.
1605
01:10:30,051 --> 01:10:33,751
I mean, he pred-- He told me
exactly the headline.
1606
01:10:33,751 --> 01:10:36,928
"The Man Who Gave Us AIDS."
1607
01:10:36,928 --> 01:10:38,625
Wadden: When I received
this phone call,
1608
01:10:38,625 --> 01:10:40,714
I just happened to pick up
the phone in the newsroom.
1609
01:10:40,714 --> 01:10:43,935
And, uh, this young woman
from "60 Minutes," uh,
1610
01:10:43,935 --> 01:10:45,632
named Barbara Drury --
1611
01:10:45,632 --> 01:10:48,374
um, Researcher Producer,
I think was her role --
1612
01:10:48,374 --> 01:10:51,551
um, explained that, uh,
they were doing a documentary
1613
01:10:51,551 --> 01:10:53,118
and that one of the main
characters in it
1614
01:10:53,118 --> 01:10:55,033
was from Quebec City.
1615
01:10:55,033 --> 01:10:58,036
And she needed someone to drive
her to Quebec City from Montreal
1616
01:10:58,036 --> 01:10:59,733
and to translate
with the family.
1617
01:10:59,733 --> 01:11:02,127
And on the way, she had a copy
of Randy Shilts' book,
1618
01:11:02,127 --> 01:11:03,694
"And the Band Played On."
1619
01:11:03,694 --> 01:11:06,740
And that's when
the true horror of the story
1620
01:11:06,740 --> 01:11:09,743
was revealed to me --
that, uh -- that they were
1621
01:11:09,743 --> 01:11:12,311
preparing a documentary
based on this book,
1622
01:11:12,311 --> 01:11:13,965
and this book had evidence
1623
01:11:13,965 --> 01:11:16,663
that the man who brought AIDS
to North America --
1624
01:11:16,663 --> 01:11:19,710
the gay man who done that --
was Gaétan Dugas,
1625
01:11:19,710 --> 01:11:22,016
and that he was from
a suburb of Quebec City.
1626
01:11:22,016 --> 01:11:24,236
When I walked
in the door of the house,
1627
01:11:24,236 --> 01:11:27,457
it was very clear to me
early on that this was a family
1628
01:11:27,457 --> 01:11:29,589
who really loved this young man
1629
01:11:29,589 --> 01:11:33,376
and, um, who were very sorrowful
about his death.
1630
01:11:33,376 --> 01:11:34,899
And they were asking me,
"What" --
1631
01:11:34,899 --> 01:11:36,248
You know, "What do you
think we should do?"
1632
01:11:36,248 --> 01:11:37,771
I remember them asking me that.
1633
01:11:37,771 --> 01:11:40,470
And -- And I said, "Well,
you do one interview,
1634
01:11:40,470 --> 01:11:44,169
you're going to have everyone
lined up here at your door."
1635
01:11:44,169 --> 01:11:46,127
They were horrified
when they learned
1636
01:11:46,127 --> 01:11:48,304
that this book
that was coming out
1637
01:11:48,304 --> 01:11:51,394
was going to name Gaétan
as the Patient Zero.
1638
01:11:51,394 --> 01:11:59,010
♪♪
1639
01:11:59,010 --> 01:12:02,013
Kai Babineaux,
who interviewed me --
1640
01:12:02,013 --> 01:12:05,625
I mean, he asked me,
had I ever thought of the impact
1641
01:12:05,625 --> 01:12:09,150
it would have on Gaétan's family
and his friends?
1642
01:12:09,150 --> 01:12:12,328
And I had to honestly say,
"No, I hadn't."
1643
01:12:12,328 --> 01:12:14,547
Bisson: I th-- I can only say,
I think they must have had
1644
01:12:14,547 --> 01:12:16,419
a really difficult time
1645
01:12:16,419 --> 01:12:19,160
going through
the bad press after,
1646
01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:21,075
which I think is,
you know, shocking.
1647
01:12:21,075 --> 01:12:23,687
It -- I mean, I find that
to be a crime, nearly.
1648
01:12:23,687 --> 01:12:27,168
And his family must have
suffered after his demise
1649
01:12:27,168 --> 01:12:29,214
for a long period of time.
1650
01:12:29,214 --> 01:12:31,782
I remember his sister,
who was a dental hygienist,
1651
01:12:31,782 --> 01:12:35,699
saying, um, you know,
"So, that's the reward he gets
1652
01:12:35,699 --> 01:12:37,657
for cooperating
with the researchers?"
1653
01:12:37,657 --> 01:12:47,624
♪♪
1654
01:12:47,624 --> 01:12:57,634
♪♪
1655
01:12:57,634 --> 01:13:00,593
Randy Shilts
was focused on showing
1656
01:13:00,593 --> 01:13:03,335
that the institutions
that had been created
1657
01:13:03,335 --> 01:13:08,645
to respond to this
very type of -- of tragedy
1658
01:13:08,645 --> 01:13:11,125
failed to respond
because of the prejudice
1659
01:13:11,125 --> 01:13:14,390
against the people who were
suffering from the disease,
1660
01:13:14,390 --> 01:13:17,523
and that was the motivation
behind his book.
1661
01:13:17,523 --> 01:13:19,177
By the time President Reagan
1662
01:13:19,177 --> 01:13:21,179
delivered his first
address on AIDS
1663
01:13:21,179 --> 01:13:24,138
in May 31st of this year
at that AIDS fundraiser here
1664
01:13:24,138 --> 01:13:28,229
in -- in Georgetown,
36,000 Americans were dead
1665
01:13:28,229 --> 01:13:29,796
or dying of this disease.
1666
01:13:29,796 --> 01:13:31,668
What a sad statement that is
1667
01:13:31,668 --> 01:13:34,105
that that many people
could be dead or dying
1668
01:13:34,105 --> 01:13:36,412
before the President will even
give a speech on the subject.
1669
01:13:36,412 --> 01:13:38,718
"The Time" --
"The New York Times,"
1670
01:13:38,718 --> 01:13:41,721
within the next --
something like 15 days
1671
01:13:41,721 --> 01:13:44,202
had 11 stories on the book.
1672
01:13:44,202 --> 01:13:46,770
11 articles in 2 weeks
1673
01:13:46,770 --> 01:13:50,164
on a book that
they had refused to review.
1674
01:13:50,164 --> 01:13:53,211
"The Band Played On"
essentially broke the silence.
1675
01:13:53,211 --> 01:13:55,605
That was the most important
thing the book did.
1676
01:13:55,605 --> 01:13:58,651
It -- It basically cracked
that wall of silence.
1677
01:13:58,651 --> 01:14:00,958
But, at the same time,
Shilts engages
1678
01:14:00,958 --> 01:14:02,786
in his own demonizing,
1679
01:14:02,786 --> 01:14:05,528
and I find
particularly unfortunate
1680
01:14:05,528 --> 01:14:10,533
his demonizing of the Canadian
flight attendant, Gaétan Dugas,
1681
01:14:10,533 --> 01:14:15,842
whom he transforms in the course
of his book into Patient Zero.
1682
01:14:15,842 --> 01:14:20,107
And really, that idea of
Patient Zero as a figure --
1683
01:14:20,107 --> 01:14:21,935
as a popular term --
1684
01:14:21,935 --> 01:14:24,460
comes from
"And the Band Played On."
1685
01:14:24,460 --> 01:14:28,768
It's funny how much
the Patient Zero narrative
1686
01:14:28,768 --> 01:14:31,989
almost jumps out
from the rest of the book.
1687
01:14:31,989 --> 01:14:33,817
It does seem tacked on.
1688
01:14:33,817 --> 01:14:36,254
It does s-- It does seem
very opportunistic
1689
01:14:36,254 --> 01:14:38,125
and very sensationalistic.
1690
01:14:38,125 --> 01:14:41,520
My take on Shilts' construction
of Gaétan Dugas in the book
1691
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:43,696
is that Shilts presents him
to be someone
1692
01:14:43,696 --> 01:14:47,004
who is completely uncaring
1693
01:14:47,004 --> 01:14:50,007
about how his behavior
might affect other people.
1694
01:14:50,007 --> 01:14:53,706
It's an act of projection,
I think, on the author's part.
1695
01:14:53,706 --> 01:14:56,492
He takes his own anger
and rage and bitterness,
1696
01:14:56,492 --> 01:14:58,798
and he makes this character
called Patient Zero.
1697
01:14:58,798 --> 01:15:01,061
What Randy was doing was saying,
1698
01:15:01,061 --> 01:15:05,283
"Yes, we are, you know,
fucking ourselves crazy,
1699
01:15:05,283 --> 01:15:09,330
and we are mindless, you know,
he-hedonistically" --
1700
01:15:09,330 --> 01:15:12,725
You know, some of that is --
a little bit of it is credible,
1701
01:15:12,725 --> 01:15:15,032
and some of it
is internalized homophobia.
1702
01:15:15,032 --> 01:15:18,209
A real degree of it
is internalized homophobia.
1703
01:15:18,209 --> 01:15:22,648
There isn't any gay person
who doesn't reveal this.
1704
01:15:22,648 --> 01:15:25,042
And, uh -- And Randy
certainly had his --
1705
01:15:25,042 --> 01:15:26,826
his share of all this.
1706
01:15:26,826 --> 01:15:28,480
So, the idea that gay men
were going out
1707
01:15:28,480 --> 01:15:31,265
and intentionally giving
the disease, it wasn't that.
1708
01:15:31,265 --> 01:15:32,963
It was that sex was
one of the few joys
1709
01:15:32,963 --> 01:15:34,312
that people had in life.
1710
01:15:34,312 --> 01:15:36,532
And so, the idea --
1711
01:15:36,532 --> 01:15:40,013
and it was very widespread --
1712
01:15:40,013 --> 01:15:41,885
that, "Whatever's causing this,
1713
01:15:41,885 --> 01:15:46,019
I already have, and you probably
have it, too" --
1714
01:15:46,019 --> 01:15:48,631
this is the main reason
why a lot of gay men
1715
01:15:48,631 --> 01:15:50,850
didn't adopt and embrace
safe sex practices
1716
01:15:50,850 --> 01:15:52,330
when it came out
1717
01:15:52,330 --> 01:15:55,289
because everyone believed
it was already too late.
1718
01:15:55,289 --> 01:15:58,902
It wasn't this dark,
evil portrait
1719
01:15:58,902 --> 01:16:00,904
that -- that Randy came up with.
1720
01:16:00,904 --> 01:16:04,081
Murray: There was one part
in the book
1721
01:16:04,081 --> 01:16:09,390
where he was at a steam bath
with someone...
1722
01:16:09,390 --> 01:16:12,568
and at the end
of their sexual act, he said,
1723
01:16:12,568 --> 01:16:14,352
"I've got gay cancer,
1724
01:16:14,352 --> 01:16:16,659
and now you're going to
get it, too."
1725
01:16:16,659 --> 01:16:19,096
And...that struck me
1726
01:16:19,096 --> 01:16:21,838
as very unlike
the Gaétan that I knew.
1727
01:16:21,838 --> 01:16:23,274
[Sighs]
1728
01:16:23,274 --> 01:16:26,146
♪♪
1729
01:16:26,146 --> 01:16:30,281
That Gaétan really knew
he was, uh...
1730
01:16:30,281 --> 01:16:32,457
spreading something --
1731
01:16:32,457 --> 01:16:33,806
Uh...
1732
01:16:33,806 --> 01:16:35,852
♪♪
1733
01:16:35,852 --> 01:16:38,202
I can tell you one thing.
1734
01:16:38,202 --> 01:16:41,640
If Gaétan knew...
1735
01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:43,207
he -- he, uh --
1736
01:16:43,207 --> 01:16:45,949
that he was killing somebody
1737
01:16:45,949 --> 01:16:50,606
by having sex with them,
he wouldn't --
1738
01:16:50,606 --> 01:16:53,173
eh, h-he -- he would not
have done it.
1739
01:16:53,173 --> 01:16:57,743
Uh, h-he would have stopped
having sex with whoever.
1740
01:16:57,743 --> 01:17:01,181
If he -- if he knew exactly?
1741
01:17:01,181 --> 01:17:02,748
No.
1742
01:17:02,748 --> 01:17:05,533
That's -- that's not
the person that I know.
1743
01:17:05,533 --> 01:17:08,014
Gaétan was not like that.
1744
01:17:08,014 --> 01:17:12,105
He was charming and everything,
but very, very caring.
1745
01:17:12,105 --> 01:17:13,629
No way.
1746
01:17:13,629 --> 01:17:17,720
There's no way
he would have continued this.
1747
01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:20,157
I -- I didn't blame Gaétan.
1748
01:17:20,157 --> 01:17:22,812
Y-You know, had I become
HIV-positive, I --
1749
01:17:22,812 --> 01:17:24,988
I never went through a period
1750
01:17:24,988 --> 01:17:27,425
where I blamed Gaétan,
uh, for that,
1751
01:17:27,425 --> 01:17:29,993
because at that time, again,
1752
01:17:29,993 --> 01:17:31,690
I don't think people
really understood,
1753
01:17:31,690 --> 01:17:33,736
and at the time, as well,
it wasn't --
1754
01:17:33,736 --> 01:17:35,476
Everything wasn't lumped
into one thing.
1755
01:17:35,476 --> 01:17:37,348
It was -- You had
Kaposi's sarcoma,
1756
01:17:37,348 --> 01:17:38,741
and they were trying to figure
out why some people had that.
1757
01:17:38,741 --> 01:17:40,568
And you had PCP,
and some people were --
1758
01:17:40,568 --> 01:17:42,570
and they were trying to figure
out why some people had that.
1759
01:17:42,570 --> 01:17:44,094
They hadn't connected
all the dots yet --
1760
01:17:44,094 --> 01:17:45,878
that it was all one thing.
1761
01:17:45,878 --> 01:17:48,098
Um, so I didn't -- I don't think
I ever went through a period
1762
01:17:48,098 --> 01:17:49,708
where I blamed him.
1763
01:17:49,708 --> 01:17:56,062
♪♪
1764
01:17:56,062 --> 01:17:57,890
Watts: So, the original
cluster study --
1765
01:17:57,890 --> 01:18:00,284
and there's a very
famous graphic
1766
01:18:00,284 --> 01:18:03,156
showing everything pointing
to this one individual --
1767
01:18:03,156 --> 01:18:06,116
really, I think,
spoke to the general public
1768
01:18:06,116 --> 01:18:09,902
that there was a --
a Typhoid Mary-type syndrome,
1769
01:18:09,902 --> 01:18:11,991
a Patient Zero syndrome
going on.
1770
01:18:11,991 --> 01:18:13,993
So, here, the key issue was --
1771
01:18:13,993 --> 01:18:15,821
where it's sometimes called
"latency period"
1772
01:18:15,821 --> 01:18:17,605
or "incubation period."
1773
01:18:17,605 --> 01:18:20,608
It's the time from infection
to when you get sick, right?
1774
01:18:20,608 --> 01:18:22,698
So, if you read
the cluster study,
1775
01:18:22,698 --> 01:18:25,309
the assumption there
is the time from infection
1776
01:18:25,309 --> 01:18:27,659
to when you get sick
is of the order of two years,
1777
01:18:27,659 --> 01:18:29,705
So, okay. Two years.
That's some time.
1778
01:18:29,705 --> 01:18:33,056
So they constructed this diagram
1779
01:18:33,056 --> 01:18:35,841
in which Gaétan is linked
1780
01:18:35,841 --> 01:18:39,323
to all these people
by having had sex with them,
1781
01:18:39,323 --> 01:18:42,152
wi-within approximately
two years of their diagnosis.
1782
01:18:42,152 --> 01:18:45,068
Okay. So, Okay.
Two years. Good.
1783
01:18:45,068 --> 01:18:46,634
'Cause no one thought
at the time
1784
01:18:46,634 --> 01:18:49,072
that this was a virus
that takes, on average,
1785
01:18:49,072 --> 01:18:51,901
10 years to --
to produce symptoms.
1786
01:18:51,901 --> 01:18:54,686
When you see somebody
sick with AIDS,
1787
01:18:54,686 --> 01:18:56,079
what you're seeing is the result
1788
01:18:56,079 --> 01:18:57,950
of something that happened
10 years before.
1789
01:18:57,950 --> 01:19:00,648
And when you see somebody in the
mid-'80s, where we now were,
1790
01:19:00,648 --> 01:19:02,738
it's the result of getting
infected in the mid-'70s.
1791
01:19:02,738 --> 01:19:04,217
And that's true.
That's what happened.
1792
01:19:04,217 --> 01:19:07,003
So this was like
a slow-motion epidemic
1793
01:19:07,003 --> 01:19:08,656
that had taken place
in the past,
1794
01:19:08,656 --> 01:19:11,268
and what we were seeing
was the result of that.
1795
01:19:11,268 --> 01:19:13,792
So, this cluster is nonsense,
1796
01:19:13,792 --> 01:19:15,185
because if A infects B,
1797
01:19:15,185 --> 01:19:17,491
B is not gonna get sick
for ten years.
1798
01:19:17,491 --> 01:19:19,929
And if B gets sick
within two years of A,
1799
01:19:19,929 --> 01:19:22,583
then you know for sure
that A didn't infect him.
1800
01:19:22,583 --> 01:19:25,151
It's the opposite
of what it appears to say.
1801
01:19:25,151 --> 01:19:28,241
Patient Zero, Gaétan Dugas,
did not infect those people.
1802
01:19:28,241 --> 01:19:30,287
That's not true.
That's false.
1803
01:19:30,287 --> 01:19:34,900
Dugas is at the center
of a cluster of people
1804
01:19:34,900 --> 01:19:36,510
who are impacted by HIV.
1805
01:19:36,510 --> 01:19:38,338
That part of it is true.
1806
01:19:38,338 --> 01:19:42,299
But if you move the dial over
left or right 5° or 10°,
1807
01:19:42,299 --> 01:19:44,040
you're going to
find someone else
1808
01:19:44,040 --> 01:19:45,781
who's at the center of a cluster
1809
01:19:45,781 --> 01:19:48,958
that just starts over again
because of their contacts.
1810
01:19:48,958 --> 01:19:51,743
If every individual
had been able
1811
01:19:51,743 --> 01:19:54,093
to recall the information
1812
01:19:54,093 --> 01:19:57,314
to the same quality
that Gaétan had
1813
01:19:57,314 --> 01:19:58,837
and had been willing
to share it,
1814
01:19:58,837 --> 01:20:01,579
this image would look
completely different.
1815
01:20:01,579 --> 01:20:03,537
♪♪
1816
01:20:03,537 --> 01:20:06,627
There just so much, uh...
1817
01:20:06,627 --> 01:20:11,676
blaming of communities, uh,
at that point --
1818
01:20:11,676 --> 01:20:13,852
the gay community, of --
of -- of course --
1819
01:20:13,852 --> 01:20:17,247
or gay male, uh, community --
1820
01:20:17,247 --> 01:20:20,250
trying to find an other.
1821
01:20:20,250 --> 01:20:22,774
Otherness bringing it here
from otherwhere, you know?
1822
01:20:22,774 --> 01:20:24,863
And he was Mr. Otherwhere,
you know?
1823
01:20:24,863 --> 01:20:26,082
They had him picked
for that role,
1824
01:20:26,082 --> 01:20:27,518
and everybody leaps on it.
1825
01:20:27,518 --> 01:20:29,520
As soon as you put
that out in the air,
1826
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:31,739
everybody wants to believe
something like that.
1827
01:20:31,739 --> 01:20:33,741
"Bad person brought it here
from bad country.
1828
01:20:33,741 --> 01:20:34,699
You."Man: [Laughs]
1829
01:20:34,699 --> 01:20:36,005
And, uh... [Chuckles]
1830
01:20:36,005 --> 01:20:37,658
That's where
religion comes from,
1831
01:20:37,658 --> 01:20:41,619
is a need for an explanation
that doesn't exist, um,
1832
01:20:41,619 --> 01:20:43,664
so we can blame God,
you know? [Laughs]
1833
01:20:43,664 --> 01:20:45,318
Or the devil.
1834
01:20:45,318 --> 01:20:48,408
Um, or in this case, um,
some poor flight attendant.
1835
01:20:48,408 --> 01:20:51,934
But the myth -- the Gaétan myth
separate from the science.
1836
01:20:51,934 --> 01:20:53,805
It's a whole separate thing,
you know.
1837
01:20:53,805 --> 01:20:56,242
That's not what it's about.
It's not about science.
1838
01:20:56,242 --> 01:20:59,028
It's about projecting ideas
of sickness and disease
1839
01:20:59,028 --> 01:21:01,682
and evil onto somebody,
you know?
1840
01:21:01,682 --> 01:21:03,162
I-It's scapegoating.
It's -- He's --
1841
01:21:03,162 --> 01:21:05,773
He's a classic scapegoat,
you know?
1842
01:21:05,773 --> 01:21:07,471
I mean, it's weird,
because nobody knows
1843
01:21:07,471 --> 01:21:09,255
what he's being scapegoated for.
1844
01:21:09,255 --> 01:21:12,084
Originally, he was the Out of
California Case, you know?
1845
01:21:12,084 --> 01:21:13,912
And then he's like
"the first man with AIDS"
1846
01:21:13,912 --> 01:21:15,131
or the man who brought it
to America, or --
1847
01:21:15,131 --> 01:21:16,523
Who knows what he is.
1848
01:21:16,523 --> 01:21:18,743
He's like the mysterious,
evil character.
1849
01:21:18,743 --> 01:21:21,006
He's the scapegoat.
Every society needs a scapegoat.
1850
01:21:21,006 --> 01:21:22,834
It's -- It's universal, right?
1851
01:21:22,834 --> 01:21:24,357
It's a magical way
of getting rid of evil.
1852
01:21:24,357 --> 01:21:25,663
You put it on the scapegoat.
1853
01:21:25,663 --> 01:21:28,144
Then you drive it out,
and it dies.
1854
01:21:28,144 --> 01:21:30,102
Takes the evil with it.
1855
01:21:30,102 --> 01:21:31,625
I think the -- the application
1856
01:21:31,625 --> 01:21:36,630
of morality to a -- a disease
is a mistake
1857
01:21:36,630 --> 01:21:40,112
because it interferes with
the ability to deal with it.
1858
01:21:40,112 --> 01:21:42,506
Um, it's a scientific
phenomenon.
1859
01:21:42,506 --> 01:21:44,421
It's a h--
It's a human tragedy
1860
01:21:44,421 --> 01:21:47,337
no matter where it is
and who gets it.
1861
01:21:47,337 --> 01:21:50,122
First of all, the people
who were religious --
1862
01:21:50,122 --> 01:21:51,645
you know, Christian
fundamentalists,
1863
01:21:51,645 --> 01:21:53,386
whatever they were
called then --
1864
01:21:53,386 --> 01:21:55,998
um, then they believe
this was a punishment from God.
1865
01:21:55,998 --> 01:21:57,782
They believe that.
1866
01:21:57,782 --> 01:21:59,262
They believe these things.
1867
01:21:59,262 --> 01:22:01,699
These things that they say,
they believe.
1868
01:22:01,699 --> 01:22:03,483
I mean, this may be,
you know, a function
1869
01:22:03,483 --> 01:22:05,529
of my own, uh, personality,
1870
01:22:05,529 --> 01:22:08,227
which is, I just don't care
what other people do.
1871
01:22:08,227 --> 01:22:09,794
I don't care.
1872
01:22:09,794 --> 01:22:11,927
You believe in all this
crazy religious stuff.
1873
01:22:11,927 --> 01:22:14,103
Go ahead,
but don't impose it on me.
1874
01:22:14,103 --> 01:22:15,974
Anal sex in particular
1875
01:22:15,974 --> 01:22:18,455
had been, for so long,
demonized.
1876
01:22:18,455 --> 01:22:20,631
Sodomy.
We have -- We have laws
1877
01:22:20,631 --> 01:22:23,939
which specifically demonize
anal sex.
1878
01:22:23,939 --> 01:22:28,204
And then, for us to have,
at great cost,
1879
01:22:28,204 --> 01:22:30,162
thrown off the shackles of that,
1880
01:22:30,162 --> 01:22:32,469
and then to see anal sex
in particular
1881
01:22:32,469 --> 01:22:35,559
demonized once again
as the best transmission method
1882
01:22:35,559 --> 01:22:38,127
for what became known as HIV --
1883
01:22:38,127 --> 01:22:40,433
um, these sort of realities
1884
01:22:40,433 --> 01:22:42,609
have a terrible impact
on self-image,
1885
01:22:42,609 --> 01:22:45,134
have a terrible impact
on how we --
1886
01:22:45,134 --> 01:22:47,440
how we navigate our sex lives,
1887
01:22:47,440 --> 01:22:51,662
let alone how a mass public
takes up our sex lives.
1888
01:22:51,662 --> 01:22:55,579
And I do believe homosexuality
is a moral perversion.
1889
01:22:55,579 --> 01:22:58,321
Uh, participates in every kind
1890
01:22:58,321 --> 01:23:01,715
of bloody and filthy, uh,
kind of sexual activity.
1891
01:23:01,715 --> 01:23:05,197
One of the terms I remember
used a lot was "general public."
1892
01:23:05,197 --> 01:23:08,461
General public was people
who were innocent
1893
01:23:08,461 --> 01:23:10,159
of the kinds of practices
1894
01:23:10,159 --> 01:23:13,292
that gay men were
"indulging" in.
1895
01:23:13,292 --> 01:23:16,078
One of the words
I saw a lot in the media.
1896
01:23:16,078 --> 01:23:18,689
One of the words
that I identify with homophobia.
1897
01:23:18,689 --> 01:23:21,257
Somehow, gay men
"indulge" in sex.
1898
01:23:21,257 --> 01:23:23,650
Other people don't
indulge in sex.
1899
01:23:23,650 --> 01:23:25,217
Of course, it was tragic
1900
01:23:25,217 --> 01:23:28,438
when a young child got HIV
from a blood supply,
1901
01:23:28,438 --> 01:23:30,092
but it was also tragic
1902
01:23:30,092 --> 01:23:34,879
when a 19-year-old man
got HIV from a sexual encounter.
1903
01:23:34,879 --> 01:23:44,019
♪♪
1904
01:23:44,019 --> 01:23:46,804
Patient Zero, uh,
was very helpful to us
1905
01:23:46,804 --> 01:23:48,414
in a number of ways
1906
01:23:48,414 --> 01:23:50,547
when he was very open
about his sexual partners,
1907
01:23:50,547 --> 01:23:52,766
which allowed Bill Darrow
to do the work
1908
01:23:52,766 --> 01:23:55,160
that led to
the cluster creation.
1909
01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:56,640
He also agreed
to come to Atlanta
1910
01:23:56,640 --> 01:23:58,511
to give a large amount
of blood,
1911
01:23:58,511 --> 01:24:01,688
thinking if anybody has
a new virus, he has it.
1912
01:24:01,688 --> 01:24:03,560
Well, for several years,
we had the conversation
1913
01:24:03,560 --> 01:24:05,910
between myself,
Mike Worobey --
1914
01:24:05,910 --> 01:24:07,999
who's a molecular
phylogeneticist
1915
01:24:07,999 --> 01:24:09,305
at the University
of Arizona --
1916
01:24:09,305 --> 01:24:10,741
saying, "Let's try
to figure out
1917
01:24:10,741 --> 01:24:12,612
what Patient Zero
represents."
1918
01:24:12,612 --> 01:24:13,961
Was he really
the first case?
1919
01:24:13,961 --> 01:24:16,138
How does he tie
into the early epidemic?
1920
01:24:16,138 --> 01:24:18,836
So Mike Worobey agreed
to do genetic sequencing
1921
01:24:18,836 --> 01:24:21,012
on some very early samples
that we collected.
1922
01:24:21,012 --> 01:24:23,406
I think it was Harold
who said, you know,
1923
01:24:23,406 --> 01:24:26,974
"We've got the Patient Zero
samples, as well,
1924
01:24:26,974 --> 01:24:28,585
and why not look at those?"
1925
01:24:28,585 --> 01:24:30,891
And -- And for --
for me, you know --
1926
01:24:30,891 --> 01:24:34,460
someone who does this
sort of evolutionary stuff --
1927
01:24:34,460 --> 01:24:36,767
"Patient Zero"
has never been a thing.
1928
01:24:36,767 --> 01:24:38,943
It's always been clear
that, um --
1929
01:24:38,943 --> 01:24:41,685
Ag-- As I say, he was just,
you know, one of lots of people
1930
01:24:41,685 --> 01:24:43,078
who were infected.
1931
01:24:43,078 --> 01:24:44,427
There has been an idea
1932
01:24:44,427 --> 01:24:48,170
that he may have
been the -- the conduit
1933
01:24:48,170 --> 01:24:50,737
that connected
the early epidemic --
1934
01:24:50,737 --> 01:24:53,436
let's say, in New York City
to -- to the West Coast.
1935
01:24:53,436 --> 01:24:54,959
Well, it's not his --
1936
01:24:54,959 --> 01:24:58,441
His is sort of a typical
New York City sequence,
1937
01:24:58,441 --> 01:24:59,790
and there are other sequences --
1938
01:24:59,790 --> 01:25:01,922
early sequences
from New York City
1939
01:25:01,922 --> 01:25:04,882
that are much closer
to the West Coast...
1940
01:25:04,882 --> 01:25:07,145
uh, from nameless individuals
1941
01:25:07,145 --> 01:25:10,844
that we're not talking about
or making films about.
1942
01:25:10,844 --> 01:25:12,803
And then, when we did a --
1943
01:25:12,803 --> 01:25:14,848
generated the sequence
from Patient Zero,
1944
01:25:14,848 --> 01:25:16,720
we put that
into the family tree,
1945
01:25:16,720 --> 01:25:21,333
and it just fell
randomly in the middle.
1946
01:25:21,333 --> 01:25:24,380
You would expect
from evolutionary theory
1947
01:25:24,380 --> 01:25:27,731
that if a -- if a sample
was the founder,
1948
01:25:27,731 --> 01:25:32,083
that it would form a base branch
to the tree.
1949
01:25:32,083 --> 01:25:33,606
Um, when it doesn't,
1950
01:25:33,606 --> 01:25:35,869
that means that
it is not the founder.
1951
01:25:35,869 --> 01:25:37,436
It was just an average,
1952
01:25:37,436 --> 01:25:41,962
mundane HIV Subtype B
from the time.
1953
01:25:41,962 --> 01:25:43,703
And with Patient Zero --
1954
01:25:43,703 --> 01:25:46,793
Gaétan Dugas in particular --
1955
01:25:46,793 --> 01:25:52,190
Um, you know, I-I didn't realize
until Harold Jaffe told me
1956
01:25:52,190 --> 01:25:57,413
that he made a special trip
s-- to -- to CDC in Atlanta, uh,
1957
01:25:57,413 --> 01:26:02,113
really just to, um --
uh, donate samples.
1958
01:26:02,113 --> 01:26:05,464
I-I find it remarkable
that this guy did this
1959
01:26:05,464 --> 01:26:08,989
and he's emerged
into our consciousness
1960
01:26:08,989 --> 01:26:10,904
as something special,
in large part
1961
01:26:10,904 --> 01:26:14,212
because he helped
epidemiologists
1962
01:26:14,212 --> 01:26:16,606
who were trying to figure out
what was going on.
1963
01:26:16,606 --> 01:26:18,347
Very unfortunate,
1964
01:26:18,347 --> 01:26:21,393
because people
interpreted that zero
1965
01:26:21,393 --> 01:26:24,614
to be the starting point
of the epidemic.
1966
01:26:24,614 --> 01:26:28,444
And this person
who had nothing to do
1967
01:26:28,444 --> 01:26:34,189
with starting this epidemic
was accused of being the source,
1968
01:26:34,189 --> 01:26:37,888
which was never our intent,
never meant to be.
1969
01:26:37,888 --> 01:26:40,412
I think the -- the --
the crucial contribution
1970
01:26:40,412 --> 01:26:44,895
Gaétan Dugas made
was his very active cooperation
1971
01:26:44,895 --> 01:26:47,767
in a moment
of extreme fear when --
1972
01:26:47,767 --> 01:26:50,205
He's French Canadian.
He could have been deported.
1973
01:26:50,205 --> 01:26:52,729
But he's going to Atlanta
when he's very ill.
1974
01:26:52,729 --> 01:26:54,600
He's going to San Francisco
to meet with this --
1975
01:26:54,600 --> 01:26:55,949
the researchers.
1976
01:26:55,949 --> 01:26:59,649
Gaétan Dugas m--
really was crucial
1977
01:26:59,649 --> 01:27:02,129
to us understanding
that AIDS was
1978
01:27:02,129 --> 01:27:04,610
a sexually transmitted disease,
and therefore,
1979
01:27:04,610 --> 01:27:06,612
he should be acclaimed
as a hero of the epidemic,
1980
01:27:06,612 --> 01:27:08,484
of the fight against AIDS.
1981
01:27:08,484 --> 01:27:17,667
♪♪
1982
01:27:17,667 --> 01:27:20,800
Lee: The toll of AIDS is
demonstrated on that memorial.
1983
01:27:20,800 --> 01:27:25,152
Those people who died of AIDS
1984
01:27:25,152 --> 01:27:26,806
were the guinea pigs
1985
01:27:26,806 --> 01:27:28,852
who made our lives a lot better.
1986
01:27:28,852 --> 01:27:32,551
People have to remember
that this community went
1987
01:27:32,551 --> 01:27:34,727
and supported all those folks.
1988
01:27:34,727 --> 01:27:37,774
And this memorial is there
to -- to just make sure
1989
01:27:37,774 --> 01:27:39,689
that they're immortalized.
1990
01:27:39,689 --> 01:27:43,040
♪♪
1991
01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:45,216
Curran: When those first
five cases were reported,
1992
01:27:45,216 --> 01:27:49,307
there were already 250,000
gay men infected with HIV,
1993
01:27:49,307 --> 01:27:51,788
and by the time
the virus was discovered
1994
01:27:51,788 --> 01:27:54,704
and an antibody test
was commercially available,
1995
01:27:54,704 --> 01:27:57,968
there were perhaps
500,000 gay men infected
1996
01:27:57,968 --> 01:28:00,057
in the United States,
and the vast majority
1997
01:28:00,057 --> 01:28:02,059
of those men have died.
1998
01:28:02,059 --> 01:28:03,974
There's more than one aspect.
There is the personal aspect
1999
01:28:03,974 --> 01:28:05,889
of actual human beings who died,
2000
01:28:05,889 --> 01:28:08,718
um, and then,
there is this culture
2001
01:28:08,718 --> 01:28:10,894
that disappeared
in five seconds.
2002
01:28:10,894 --> 01:28:15,725
All the plays never written,
the performances never sung.
2003
01:28:16,987 --> 01:28:18,902
The books never written.
2004
01:28:20,120 --> 01:28:23,863
Even the audiences
that never filled the seats.
2005
01:28:23,863 --> 01:28:25,909
All the people we lost --
2006
01:28:25,909 --> 01:28:27,214
all of the older people
2007
01:28:27,214 --> 01:28:28,999
who could have been
mentors to me
2008
01:28:28,999 --> 01:28:33,482
to show me how to get older
as a gay man, that I don't have.
2009
01:28:33,482 --> 01:28:38,443
The gay men that
I personally, uh, lost
2010
01:28:38,443 --> 01:28:39,966
and many of the gay men
2011
01:28:39,966 --> 01:28:41,794
that I worked with
at the airline
2012
01:28:41,794 --> 01:28:46,103
were bright, kind,
2013
01:28:46,103 --> 01:28:48,497
fun, nice people.
2014
01:28:48,497 --> 01:28:50,325
They wanted the same things
out of life
2015
01:28:50,325 --> 01:28:52,327
that all the rest of us want.
2016
01:28:52,327 --> 01:28:54,938
They wanted to have
a relationship,
2017
01:28:54,938 --> 01:28:56,592
to be loved --
2018
01:28:56,592 --> 01:28:59,072
to grow old together,
m-many of them --
2019
01:28:59,072 --> 01:29:03,642
and they contributed
to our society in many ways.
2020
01:29:03,642 --> 01:29:07,733
And it is absolutely devastating
2021
01:29:07,733 --> 01:29:10,997
that we lost so many.
2022
01:29:10,997 --> 01:29:18,614
♪♪
2023
01:29:18,614 --> 01:29:26,230
♪♪
2024
01:29:26,230 --> 01:29:33,846
♪♪
2025
01:29:33,846 --> 01:29:36,980
I have this belief, uh,
or theory --
2026
01:29:36,980 --> 01:29:38,895
not that there's a big
difference between those two --
2027
01:29:38,895 --> 01:29:42,028
that AIDS is what
caused gay marriage.
2028
01:29:42,028 --> 01:29:45,684
You know, that all these
astonishing changes
2029
01:29:45,684 --> 01:29:49,514
in society's, um, idea
o-of -- of being gay,
2030
01:29:49,514 --> 01:29:51,168
I don't think that would have
happened without AIDS.
2031
01:29:51,168 --> 01:29:53,562
If you can stay in Atlanta
2032
01:29:53,562 --> 01:29:55,520
and buy a house in the suburbs
2033
01:29:55,520 --> 01:29:56,913
and marry your boyfriend
2034
01:29:56,913 --> 01:29:59,176
and be a dentist, they do.
2035
01:30:00,177 --> 01:30:01,787
So, [Laughs] you know,
it turns out
2036
01:30:01,787 --> 01:30:04,050
that the average homosexual
2037
01:30:04,050 --> 01:30:06,009
turned out to be
more average than homosexual.
2038
01:30:06,009 --> 01:30:07,619
This is a surprising
thing to me.
2039
01:30:07,619 --> 01:30:11,188
It's something that has not been
universally welcomed
2040
01:30:11,188 --> 01:30:12,798
by gay communities.
2041
01:30:12,798 --> 01:30:14,583
I know that I do.
2042
01:30:14,583 --> 01:30:16,933
I'm happy about it.
2043
01:30:16,933 --> 01:30:18,804
Um, I won't call her my wife,
2044
01:30:18,804 --> 01:30:21,111
but I'm happy to have
a legal piece of paper.
2045
01:30:21,111 --> 01:30:22,634
There's nothing more important
2046
01:30:22,634 --> 01:30:25,115
than having someone
in your life, you know,
2047
01:30:25,115 --> 01:30:27,073
to be your witness,
to be your partner,
2048
01:30:27,073 --> 01:30:28,553
to be there
when you need something.
2049
01:30:28,553 --> 01:30:30,163
I always had so many friends,
2050
01:30:30,163 --> 01:30:34,690
I never saw marriage
as something necessary.
2051
01:30:34,690 --> 01:30:37,562
But the older I get,
the fewer friends there are.
2052
01:30:37,562 --> 01:30:40,391
And so, now I understand
on a deep, personal level
2053
01:30:40,391 --> 01:30:42,828
what it means to have someone
who's been a witness
2054
01:30:42,828 --> 01:30:46,658
to your life's journey
to be there with you to the end.
2055
01:30:46,658 --> 01:30:49,226
And suddenly, here we are now
with gay marriage
2056
01:30:49,226 --> 01:30:51,010
and gays in the military,
2057
01:30:51,010 --> 01:30:53,317
where they've been
excluded before.
2058
01:30:53,317 --> 01:30:54,753
All of that happened --
2059
01:30:54,753 --> 01:30:56,973
"And the Band Played On"
played an important part
2060
01:30:56,973 --> 01:30:58,670
in that recognition
2061
01:30:58,670 --> 01:31:02,674
that there was a large number
of gay men in America.
2062
01:31:02,674 --> 01:31:04,633
But the AIDS epidemic
was really the thing
2063
01:31:04,633 --> 01:31:07,157
that focused us on the fact
2064
01:31:07,157 --> 01:31:09,464
that there were large numbers
of gay men --
2065
01:31:09,464 --> 01:31:12,379
that your uncle,
the --the bachelor,
2066
01:31:12,379 --> 01:31:14,643
your -- your brother,
your son --
2067
01:31:14,643 --> 01:31:17,733
maybe even your dad --
was gay.
2068
01:31:17,733 --> 01:31:23,434
It took 800,000 gay men to die
2069
01:31:23,434 --> 01:31:26,524
for the American public
to realize
2070
01:31:26,524 --> 01:31:30,397
that homosexuals were
a large part of this community.
2071
01:31:30,397 --> 01:31:33,270
That was really the legacy
of the AIDS epidemic.
2072
01:31:33,270 --> 01:31:38,884
♪♪
2073
01:31:38,884 --> 01:31:41,670
You know, now's the time to say
what the impact was
2074
01:31:41,670 --> 01:31:46,152
on -- on his family
and, um --
2075
01:31:46,152 --> 01:31:50,417
and for his memory
to be, uh, you know --
2076
01:31:50,417 --> 01:31:52,855
uh, w-washed clean
2077
01:31:52,855 --> 01:31:56,206
of this, you know, horror
that was, uh --
2078
01:31:56,206 --> 01:31:59,426
um, you know,
put upon them, really,
2079
01:31:59,426 --> 01:32:02,604
I went to see him in Quebec City
at the hospital,
2080
01:32:02,604 --> 01:32:06,608
and he didn't know I was coming
because I couldn't say
2081
01:32:06,608 --> 01:32:09,088
if -- if I was able
to get on a flight or not.
2082
01:32:09,088 --> 01:32:12,048
So I showed up there,
and, um, he said to me...
2083
01:32:12,048 --> 01:32:14,267
[Gasps]
Gaétane! Gaétan!
2084
01:32:14,267 --> 01:32:16,313
[Speaking French]
2085
01:32:16,313 --> 01:32:20,012
Then he was very self-conscious
of what he looked like,
2086
01:32:20,012 --> 01:32:23,581
because he had those, um, see--
2087
01:32:23,581 --> 01:32:27,237
the -- the -- the purple, eh,
spot on him from, um --
2088
01:32:27,237 --> 01:32:29,152
Man: KS?
Ye-- KS.
2089
01:32:29,152 --> 01:32:31,720
And, eh, so, he's going --
covering his head.
2090
01:32:31,720 --> 01:32:33,460
And I said, no, no, no.
[Speaking French]
2091
01:32:33,460 --> 01:32:36,333
So then, he said to me, ehm,
"But you know what?
2092
01:32:36,333 --> 01:32:39,641
I will get a Dalmatian dog,
2093
01:32:39,641 --> 01:32:42,513
and I'll take him
running on the beach
2094
01:32:42,513 --> 01:32:44,515
so we'll look the same,
like we're twins."
2095
01:32:44,515 --> 01:32:47,257
S-- You know, he made humor.
2096
01:32:47,257 --> 01:32:49,651
Like, he wasn't...
2097
01:32:49,651 --> 01:32:51,043
Yeah, he was, uh --
2098
01:32:51,043 --> 01:32:53,568
That's how I knew him, so...
2099
01:32:53,568 --> 01:32:57,876
I dec-- Okay, I decided
to do this...
2100
01:32:57,876 --> 01:32:59,008
for Gaétan.
2101
01:32:59,008 --> 01:33:00,705
Like, I just felt,
2102
01:33:00,705 --> 01:33:05,057
Well, this is my chance
to really, eh, show him
2103
01:33:05,057 --> 01:33:06,798
how much I loved him, you know?
2104
01:33:06,798 --> 01:33:09,453
By coming forward and say,
"No, this is not true.
2105
01:33:09,453 --> 01:33:10,541
No, this is not true."
2106
01:33:10,541 --> 01:33:13,413
Uh, this photo --
2107
01:33:13,413 --> 01:33:16,634
this photo, I think,
is probably the nicest one
2108
01:33:16,634 --> 01:33:18,070
because he looks very sweet,
2109
01:33:18,070 --> 01:33:19,681
and he's just sitting there
being sweet.
2110
01:33:19,681 --> 01:33:21,900
This one was probably
the most famous one.
2111
01:33:21,900 --> 01:33:24,033
He's kind of...
2112
01:33:24,033 --> 01:33:25,208
in the air.
2113
01:33:25,208 --> 01:33:26,557
He's flying,
2114
01:33:26,557 --> 01:33:27,906
He's having a good time.
2115
01:33:27,906 --> 01:33:29,255
He looks angelic.
2116
01:33:29,255 --> 01:33:31,693
He's like this golden boy,
you know?
2117
01:33:31,693 --> 01:33:34,609
Um, in the air.
[Laughs]
2118
01:33:34,609 --> 01:33:36,741
And this is the one where he was
trying to show his dick.
2119
01:33:36,741 --> 01:33:39,875
He doesn't manage to get
his dick in the picture.
2120
01:33:39,875 --> 01:33:43,922
Uh, this picture
I didn't send to "Life" magazine
2121
01:33:43,922 --> 01:33:45,532
because another friend
2122
01:33:45,532 --> 01:33:50,755
who has great gallows
humor sense said,
2123
01:33:50,755 --> 01:33:52,452
"Don't send that one to 'Life.'
2124
01:33:52,452 --> 01:33:54,933
They probably don't want to see
the murder weapon."
2125
01:33:54,933 --> 01:33:56,761
So they didn't get this one.
2126
01:33:56,761 --> 01:33:59,024
You have it, somehow.
2127
01:33:59,024 --> 01:34:01,200
That is all of them, actually.
2128
01:34:01,200 --> 01:34:04,073
♪♪
2129
01:34:04,073 --> 01:34:06,336
Eh, it's saying...
2130
01:34:06,336 --> 01:34:08,512
[Speaking French]
2131
01:34:08,512 --> 01:34:09,992
"I'm saying goodbye."
2132
01:34:11,471 --> 01:34:15,737
"I love you,
and I'm waiting for you...
2133
01:34:15,737 --> 01:34:17,564
in heaven," basically.
2134
01:34:17,564 --> 01:34:20,045
And "Gaétan."
2135
01:34:20,045 --> 01:34:21,264
Of course, the airplane.
2136
01:34:21,264 --> 01:34:24,180
Eh, our job, and...
2137
01:34:24,180 --> 01:34:26,182
Ah.
2138
01:34:26,182 --> 01:34:27,662
♪♪
2139
01:34:27,662 --> 01:34:29,751
It says, um --
Well, the last part is,
2140
01:34:29,751 --> 01:34:30,969
"W-We'll, um" --
2141
01:34:30,969 --> 01:34:33,406
[Weeping]
2142
01:34:33,406 --> 01:34:34,625
"We'll see you in heav" --
2143
01:34:34,625 --> 01:34:37,193
"We'll see you in heaven."
2144
01:34:37,193 --> 01:34:38,411
Pfoof.
2145
01:34:38,411 --> 01:34:40,370
I can't remember
the first part.
2146
01:34:40,370 --> 01:34:42,285
That's age.
[Laughs]
2147
01:34:42,285 --> 01:34:43,678
The first part --
2148
01:34:43,678 --> 01:34:46,289
"I'm s-- I'm saying
goodbye to you.
2149
01:34:46,289 --> 01:34:47,899
I love you...
2150
01:34:47,899 --> 01:34:49,727
and I'm waiting for you
in heaven."
2151
01:34:49,727 --> 01:34:52,817
♪♪
2152
01:34:52,817 --> 01:34:55,124
That's beautiful.
2153
01:34:55,124 --> 01:34:57,648
And I'll see him there.
2154
01:34:57,648 --> 01:34:59,258
I'm already talking to him.
2155
01:34:59,258 --> 01:35:00,869
[Laughs]
2156
01:35:00,869 --> 01:35:02,871
[Chuckles]
2157
01:35:02,871 --> 01:35:04,873
I don't know what the legacy
of the photos is.
2158
01:35:04,873 --> 01:35:09,181
Hopefully, they l-- portray him
in a positive light,
2159
01:35:09,181 --> 01:35:11,793
because, uh, he's not so--
2160
01:35:11,793 --> 01:35:15,231
sort of a -- a negative
in a sad story.
2161
01:35:15,231 --> 01:35:18,538
He wasn't negative
or a sad person.
2162
01:35:18,538 --> 01:35:20,715
Like, he was very happy
and, you know, funny.
2163
01:35:20,715 --> 01:35:23,500
And, um --
2164
01:35:23,500 --> 01:35:26,851
Uh, so I think
the photos represent him
2165
01:35:26,851 --> 01:35:28,418
kind of nicely, if you will.
2166
01:35:28,418 --> 01:35:31,247
Like, he -- he looks like
an attractive young guy
2167
01:35:31,247 --> 01:35:34,032
who's enjoying himself,
and that's who he was.
2168
01:35:34,032 --> 01:35:41,213
♪♪
2169
01:35:41,213 --> 01:35:48,351
♪♪
2170
01:35:50,875 --> 01:35:54,009
♪♪
2171
01:35:54,009 --> 01:35:57,490
♪ Ooh ♪
2172
01:35:57,490 --> 01:35:58,665
♪ Ooh-ooh ♪
2173
01:35:58,665 --> 01:36:01,494
♪♪
2174
01:36:01,494 --> 01:36:02,887
♪ Ooh ♪
2175
01:36:02,887 --> 01:36:05,020
♪♪
2176
01:36:05,020 --> 01:36:06,673
♪ Ooh-ooh ♪
2177
01:36:06,673 --> 01:36:08,937
♪♪
2178
01:36:08,937 --> 01:36:12,723
♪ Oooooooh-ooh ♪
2179
01:36:12,723 --> 01:36:16,509
♪ Ooooooooooooh-ooh ♪
2180
01:36:16,509 --> 01:36:20,296
♪ Ooooooh-ooh ♪
2181
01:36:20,296 --> 01:36:21,427
♪ Ooh ♪
2182
01:36:21,427 --> 01:36:30,959
♪♪
2183
01:36:30,959 --> 01:36:40,446
♪♪
2184
01:36:40,446 --> 01:36:49,978
♪♪
2185
01:36:49,978 --> 01:36:59,465
♪♪
2186
01:36:59,465 --> 01:37:08,997
♪♪
2187
01:37:08,997 --> 01:37:18,484
♪♪
2188
01:37:18,484 --> 01:37:28,016
♪♪
2189
01:37:28,016 --> 01:37:37,503
♪♪
2190
01:37:37,503 --> 01:37:47,035
♪♪
2191
01:37:47,035 --> 01:37:56,522
♪♪
2192
01:37:56,522 --> 01:38:06,054
♪♪
2193
01:38:06,054 --> 01:38:15,541
♪♪
2194
01:38:15,541 --> 01:38:25,073
♪♪
2195
01:38:25,073 --> 01:38:27,205
[Warbling]
158388
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.