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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 3 00:00:09,052 --> 00:00:11,272 [Film reel clacking] 4 00:00:11,272 --> 00:00:13,100 [Warbling] 5 00:00:15,885 --> 00:00:25,329 ♪♪ 6 00:00:25,329 --> 00:00:29,159 Gaynor: Um, I don't think I f-- really feel any anger. 7 00:00:29,159 --> 00:00:33,729 You know, what I feel is regret at how, um... 8 00:00:33,729 --> 00:00:36,601 One personal story that I'll tell you is, 9 00:00:36,601 --> 00:00:38,734 a very good friend -- probably one of my best friends -- 10 00:00:38,734 --> 00:00:41,258 he was -- uh, had moved to Toronto, 11 00:00:41,258 --> 00:00:42,564 and we were always in touch. 12 00:00:42,564 --> 00:00:44,044 We got together from time to time. 13 00:00:44,044 --> 00:00:45,784 And then, as time goes on, your kind of -- 14 00:00:45,784 --> 00:00:48,396 you know, your context kind of broadens, 15 00:00:48,396 --> 00:00:50,876 and you don't see them as much. 16 00:00:50,876 --> 00:00:54,750 And one night, um, my phone rang, 17 00:00:54,750 --> 00:00:56,882 and it was m-my friend. 18 00:00:56,882 --> 00:00:59,885 And there --there was a lot of people in my apartment, 19 00:00:59,885 --> 00:01:01,626 and he just called to say hi. 20 00:01:01,626 --> 00:01:03,933 And, basically, I said, "Hi, great to hear from you." 21 00:01:03,933 --> 00:01:07,458 And I said, uh, "Wow, like, are you still alive?" 22 00:01:07,458 --> 00:01:11,419 Meaning, "I haven't heard from you in a while, 23 00:01:11,419 --> 00:01:13,116 and I can't talk to you right now 24 00:01:13,116 --> 00:01:14,552 because there's a bunch of people here. 25 00:01:14,552 --> 00:01:17,077 So, can I call you back?" And he said, "Sure." 26 00:01:17,077 --> 00:01:18,948 So I hung up. 27 00:01:18,948 --> 00:01:20,602 I didn't call him back. 28 00:01:20,602 --> 00:01:23,039 And about a week later, I heard that he had died, 29 00:01:23,039 --> 00:01:26,651 and I realized that he was calling to say goodbye. 30 00:01:26,651 --> 00:01:28,914 [Laughs softly] And I had -- I said, 31 00:01:28,914 --> 00:01:30,568 "Are you still alive?" 32 00:01:30,568 --> 00:01:32,179 Not even knowing that he was sick. 33 00:01:32,179 --> 00:01:34,181 Like, I didn't know that he had AIDS. 34 00:01:34,181 --> 00:01:36,966 Uh, so... 35 00:01:36,966 --> 00:01:38,533 that's just, like, a personal instance, 36 00:01:38,533 --> 00:01:41,318 but it -- it still really haunts me, actually. 37 00:01:41,318 --> 00:01:46,541 ♪♪ 38 00:01:46,541 --> 00:01:51,720 ♪♪ 39 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:53,417 [Birds chirping] 40 00:01:53,417 --> 00:01:56,594 ♪♪ 41 00:01:56,594 --> 00:01:59,771 [Chirping travels left to right] 42 00:01:59,771 --> 00:02:02,992 [Airplane engine fades in] 43 00:02:02,992 --> 00:02:05,212 [Engine roaring] 44 00:02:05,212 --> 00:02:06,952 [Sarah Vaughan's "Fever [Adam Freeland Remix]" plays] 45 00:02:06,952 --> 00:02:08,737 Bergman: "Patient Zero" is the name 46 00:02:08,737 --> 00:02:11,218 doctors and the medical detectives used 47 00:02:11,218 --> 00:02:13,916 to describe this man -- the airline steward -- 48 00:02:13,916 --> 00:02:15,396 to protect his identity. 49 00:02:15,396 --> 00:02:18,050 I have spoken of Patient Zero 50 00:02:18,050 --> 00:02:21,010 to people who weren't around at that time, 51 00:02:21,010 --> 00:02:23,491 and when they realized that -- who I'm talking about 52 00:02:23,491 --> 00:02:25,014 and that I actually knew that person 53 00:02:25,014 --> 00:02:27,016 and that that was a -- a real person 54 00:02:27,016 --> 00:02:29,671 rather than, you know, somebody eight foot tall 55 00:02:29,671 --> 00:02:31,803 dripping blood from the mouth, 56 00:02:31,803 --> 00:02:32,935 [Laughs] I-It was -- Yeah. 57 00:02:32,935 --> 00:02:34,284 It's as if I'm talking about 58 00:02:34,284 --> 00:02:35,938 having known Joan of Arc personally. 59 00:02:35,938 --> 00:02:37,679 Reporter 1: The man was Gaétan Dugas, 60 00:02:37,679 --> 00:02:40,682 a 32-year-old Air Canada steward from Quebec 61 00:02:40,682 --> 00:02:42,379 who died in 1984. 62 00:02:42,379 --> 00:02:44,686 None of the straight people that I've talked to kn-- 63 00:02:44,686 --> 00:02:46,296 even know what Patient Zero was. 64 00:02:46,296 --> 00:02:47,863 They didn't know who Patient Zero was 65 00:02:47,863 --> 00:02:49,517 or what it was, 66 00:02:49,517 --> 00:02:51,040 which is not the case with gay people. 67 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,085 I mean, if you're gay, you know Patient Zero. 68 00:02:53,085 --> 00:02:54,652 Patient Zero was a man, 69 00:02:54,652 --> 00:02:56,654 the central victim, and victimizer. 70 00:02:56,654 --> 00:02:58,917 The most widespread part 71 00:02:58,917 --> 00:03:01,616 is the idea that this is the man 72 00:03:01,616 --> 00:03:04,009 who introduced AIDS to North America. 73 00:03:04,009 --> 00:03:05,141 Shilts: I don't know whether he actually brought 74 00:03:05,141 --> 00:03:06,577 the epidemic to the country, 75 00:03:06,577 --> 00:03:08,318 but he certainly was the person 76 00:03:08,318 --> 00:03:10,190 who spread it from one end of the country to the other. 77 00:03:10,190 --> 00:03:12,279 There is just so much wrong 78 00:03:12,279 --> 00:03:15,630 about the concept of a "patient zero." 79 00:03:16,805 --> 00:03:19,851 The second part is that 80 00:03:19,851 --> 00:03:22,202 not only did he cause the epidemic 81 00:03:22,202 --> 00:03:23,812 by being the first case, 82 00:03:23,812 --> 00:03:26,815 but he was somehow doing it deliberately -- 83 00:03:26,815 --> 00:03:31,428 that he was trying to spread his infection far and wide 84 00:03:31,428 --> 00:03:33,387 across the United States and beyond. 85 00:03:33,387 --> 00:03:35,954 Reporter 1: He reportedly crisscrossed North America, 86 00:03:35,954 --> 00:03:38,305 feeding an enormous homosexual appetite 87 00:03:38,305 --> 00:03:40,045 with hundreds of liaisons. 88 00:03:40,045 --> 00:03:44,615 This, um, sort of golden man-child... 89 00:03:44,615 --> 00:03:47,357 [Chuckles] ...if you will. 90 00:03:47,357 --> 00:03:50,969 A very handsome airline steward. 91 00:03:50,969 --> 00:03:54,712 And, suddenly, to die on the front page like that... 92 00:03:54,712 --> 00:03:56,584 Dugas's family would only say 93 00:03:56,584 --> 00:03:58,760 that parts of the story are false, 94 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:00,979 and that only God knows the truth. 95 00:04:00,979 --> 00:04:03,852 It's funny to say -- Gaétan always used to say to me, 96 00:04:03,852 --> 00:04:07,029 "One day, I'll be a star." [Laughs] 97 00:04:07,029 --> 00:04:09,727 Well, [Laughs] he might be a star now, you know? 98 00:04:09,727 --> 00:04:11,773 Like, he go-- I mean, he was known. 99 00:04:11,773 --> 00:04:13,078 Like, people knew him, 100 00:04:13,078 --> 00:04:14,645 but I don't think that's what he meant 101 00:04:14,645 --> 00:04:17,431 when he said, "One day, I'll be a star, darling." 102 00:04:17,431 --> 00:04:18,606 Okay. 103 00:04:18,606 --> 00:04:20,477 ♪♪ 104 00:04:20,477 --> 00:04:23,045 Woman: ♪ F-F-Fever ♪ 105 00:04:23,045 --> 00:04:25,047 Man: The chair is yours. 106 00:04:25,047 --> 00:04:27,049 [Echoing] The chair is yours. 107 00:04:27,049 --> 00:04:28,746 The chair is yours. 108 00:04:28,746 --> 00:04:30,574 ♪ Feel the burn ♪ 109 00:04:30,574 --> 00:04:32,446 ♪ Feel the burn ♪ 110 00:04:32,446 --> 00:04:34,361 ♪ Feel the burn ♪ 111 00:04:34,361 --> 00:04:37,407 ♪♪ 112 00:04:37,407 --> 00:04:39,757 ♪ Fever, fever, fever, fever, feeeeever ♪ 113 00:04:39,757 --> 00:04:41,846 ♪ Feel the burn ♪ 114 00:04:41,846 --> 00:04:44,675 ♪ Feel the burn ♪ ♪ Feel the burn ♪ 115 00:04:44,675 --> 00:04:47,765 ♪ Fever, fever, fever, fever, feeeeever ♪ 116 00:04:49,158 --> 00:04:50,290 I'm Ray Redford. 117 00:04:50,290 --> 00:04:52,596 I was a friend of Gaétan's. 118 00:04:52,596 --> 00:04:54,903 "Gaétan was something different. 119 00:04:54,903 --> 00:04:56,861 A man on the glittering edge. 120 00:04:56,861 --> 00:05:01,431 Flamboyantly and defiantly and happily gay, 121 00:05:01,431 --> 00:05:05,087 seemingly unconcerned about what others thought." 122 00:05:05,087 --> 00:05:07,481 ♪ Moon lights up the night ♪ 123 00:05:07,481 --> 00:05:09,396 ♪ Burning, burning, burning ♪ 124 00:05:09,396 --> 00:05:12,442 ♪ I light up when you call my name ♪ 125 00:05:12,442 --> 00:05:14,792 ♪ Know I'm gonna treat you right ♪ 126 00:05:14,792 --> 00:05:16,490 ♪ You give me fever ♪ 127 00:05:16,490 --> 00:05:20,189 My name is Gaétane, with a "E" at the end. 128 00:05:20,189 --> 00:05:23,410 Makes me a little bit different w-- than Gaétan. 129 00:05:23,410 --> 00:05:26,238 Well, I grew up in Montreal, and he grew up in Quebec City. 130 00:05:26,238 --> 00:05:28,066 So we, um -- 131 00:05:28,066 --> 00:05:31,766 we had the same French humor, [Laughs] if you want. 132 00:05:31,766 --> 00:05:34,856 Eh, you know, I s-- We always blamed the other one 133 00:05:34,856 --> 00:05:37,032 because we're both blonde. 134 00:05:37,032 --> 00:05:39,339 [Laughs] And which? Gaétan or Gaétane? 135 00:05:39,339 --> 00:05:40,775 No, no, no, no. I say, "Gaétane." 136 00:05:40,775 --> 00:05:43,604 [Speaking French] 137 00:05:43,604 --> 00:05:44,953 [Laughs] 138 00:05:44,953 --> 00:05:46,650 He was adopted, 139 00:05:46,650 --> 00:05:49,827 and I s-- believe he had five sisters, 140 00:05:49,827 --> 00:05:51,960 and they just hovered over him. 141 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:53,048 They just love him. 142 00:05:53,048 --> 00:05:54,354 But that's about the extent 143 00:05:54,354 --> 00:05:56,747 of the family I know. 144 00:05:56,747 --> 00:05:59,097 Wadden: Whatever, uh, prejudice I had 145 00:05:59,097 --> 00:06:00,838 going into the house -- you know, expecting, 146 00:06:00,838 --> 00:06:03,537 "Who are these people to have raised this monster?" -- 147 00:06:03,537 --> 00:06:06,975 w-was, uh, sort of, uh, immediately shredded 148 00:06:06,975 --> 00:06:09,325 when I caught sight of the fridge door 149 00:06:09,325 --> 00:06:11,936 and this prayer card for Gaétan. 150 00:06:11,936 --> 00:06:14,286 In French, there was, uh, you know, 151 00:06:14,286 --> 00:06:16,550 "In memory of -- of Gaétan Dugas, uh, 152 00:06:16,550 --> 00:06:17,899 our beloved son." 153 00:06:17,899 --> 00:06:19,944 The love -- There was so much love 154 00:06:19,944 --> 00:06:22,643 in that one little gesture on the fridge door. 155 00:06:22,643 --> 00:06:24,819 I don't know when he came out to his family, 156 00:06:24,819 --> 00:06:26,864 but I believe his family knew for a long time, 157 00:06:26,864 --> 00:06:29,040 and they were very supportive. 158 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,565 Unfortunately, not all the men I worked with 159 00:06:31,565 --> 00:06:33,610 had that experience. 160 00:06:33,610 --> 00:06:36,265 Um, at least one supervisor I worked with 161 00:06:36,265 --> 00:06:37,745 who started as a flight attendant, 162 00:06:37,745 --> 00:06:39,660 his family disowned him when he came out, 163 00:06:39,660 --> 00:06:41,139 and he never spoke to them again. 164 00:06:41,139 --> 00:06:43,098 It's to the best of my knowledge. 165 00:06:43,098 --> 00:06:47,798 ♪♪ 166 00:06:47,798 --> 00:06:51,585 Growing up gay in the late '60s, early '70s was unspeakable. 167 00:06:51,585 --> 00:06:53,587 It was something you couldn't talk about, 168 00:06:53,587 --> 00:06:55,806 confide even in your closest friends. 169 00:06:55,806 --> 00:06:57,591 When you live in a culture that tells you 170 00:06:57,591 --> 00:07:01,464 your very innate self is wrong, 171 00:07:01,464 --> 00:07:03,597 you're a perfect bullying victim. 172 00:07:03,597 --> 00:07:06,643 Growing up, I had no idea whatsoever -- 173 00:07:06,643 --> 00:07:08,819 a-anything about gayness, 174 00:07:08,819 --> 00:07:10,691 gay people, homosexuals. 175 00:07:10,691 --> 00:07:13,433 If you were a young kid, even a child -- 176 00:07:13,433 --> 00:07:16,348 some people were children -- in, say, the '50s or the '60s -- 177 00:07:16,348 --> 00:07:18,263 perhaps before, but I'm not that old -- 178 00:07:18,263 --> 00:07:20,744 and you noticed in yourself, 179 00:07:20,744 --> 00:07:22,311 you know, that you were gay or were af-- 180 00:07:22,311 --> 00:07:24,792 you fearfully suspected it, 181 00:07:24,792 --> 00:07:26,750 there was no place to find out about it. 182 00:07:26,750 --> 00:07:29,797 It didn't exist in the popular culture at all. 183 00:07:29,797 --> 00:07:33,670 I never was remotely aware of being gay. 184 00:07:33,670 --> 00:07:38,762 I had very intense friendships with other girls, 185 00:07:38,762 --> 00:07:42,331 but I never really put, you know, 186 00:07:42,331 --> 00:07:44,594 five and five together, let alone two and two. 187 00:07:44,594 --> 00:07:46,683 You know, growing up in a -- a, you know -- 188 00:07:46,683 --> 00:07:49,643 a Chinese -- old fashioned Chinese family, 189 00:07:49,643 --> 00:07:51,122 you -- you just didn't talk about it. 190 00:07:51,122 --> 00:07:53,124 You didn't learn about it or anything like that. 191 00:07:53,124 --> 00:07:55,910 And you like to play, you know, um, skipping 192 00:07:55,910 --> 00:07:57,868 and jump rope and things like that 193 00:07:57,868 --> 00:07:59,261 rather than baseball. 194 00:07:59,261 --> 00:08:03,004 When I was probably eight or nine, 195 00:08:03,004 --> 00:08:05,746 two gay guys moved into our -- onto our street. 196 00:08:05,746 --> 00:08:07,138 They bought a house and moved onto our street. 197 00:08:07,138 --> 00:08:09,880 And everybody was sort of giggling about -- 198 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:11,708 One liked to garden and one liked to paint. 199 00:08:11,708 --> 00:08:14,363 And so, it was one of those things that was sort of, 200 00:08:14,363 --> 00:08:16,017 you know, really embedded on my mind 201 00:08:16,017 --> 00:08:18,889 that that was not something that was a good thing. 202 00:08:18,889 --> 00:08:22,240 I remember looking up the word "homosexuality," 203 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,068 and it said something about "extreme" -- 204 00:08:24,068 --> 00:08:26,375 you know, "e-e-extreme perversion" 205 00:08:26,375 --> 00:08:28,508 and "depraved" and all that. 206 00:08:28,508 --> 00:08:30,901 But I remember how thrilled I was 207 00:08:30,901 --> 00:08:32,860 to discover that I existed. 208 00:08:32,860 --> 00:08:35,906 It was really, uh -- It was sort of strange, 209 00:08:35,906 --> 00:08:38,343 where you would gather up your sense of self-worth 210 00:08:38,343 --> 00:08:40,041 or who and what you were. 211 00:08:40,041 --> 00:08:41,738 And when there were images, 212 00:08:41,738 --> 00:08:44,175 they were really incredibly negative. 213 00:08:44,175 --> 00:08:46,134 Freeman: I do remember "Diamonds Are Forever." 214 00:08:46,134 --> 00:08:48,005 I remember seeing that as a teenager 215 00:08:48,005 --> 00:08:52,009 with my parents at the musical theater 216 00:08:52,009 --> 00:08:53,968 on Tremont Street in Boston 217 00:08:53,968 --> 00:08:55,926 and being absolutely mortified 218 00:08:55,926 --> 00:08:59,321 by the very creepy queer villains 219 00:08:59,321 --> 00:09:01,192 and sitting there with my parents 220 00:09:01,192 --> 00:09:04,718 and listening to people sort of laugh at the -- 221 00:09:04,718 --> 00:09:06,197 at these, uh, -- 222 00:09:06,197 --> 00:09:08,069 It -- It was pretty awful. 223 00:09:08,069 --> 00:09:11,289 1967, CBS had a documentary I remember watching 224 00:09:11,289 --> 00:09:16,643 that was just so homophobic and hateful and, uh, really... 225 00:09:16,643 --> 00:09:18,949 Narrator: "The Homosexuals"... 226 00:09:18,949 --> 00:09:22,039 with CBS News correspondent Mike Wallace. 227 00:09:22,039 --> 00:09:26,000 Americans consider homosexuality more harmful to society 228 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,351 than adultery, abortion, or prostitution. 229 00:09:29,351 --> 00:09:31,527 So, they actually got a real-life homosexual 230 00:09:31,527 --> 00:09:33,094 to speak on camera, 231 00:09:33,094 --> 00:09:36,140 but they backlit him and, uh, changed the voice 232 00:09:36,140 --> 00:09:38,665 so that no one would see who they were. 233 00:09:38,665 --> 00:09:40,797 And so, that was my first introduction 234 00:09:40,797 --> 00:09:43,017 to know that there were these strange creatures 235 00:09:43,017 --> 00:09:45,280 called "homosexuals," but they were obviously so disgusting 236 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,152 that they could not possibly appear on television. 237 00:09:48,152 --> 00:09:50,111 Narrator: This man is 27. 238 00:09:50,111 --> 00:09:52,592 He was unable to hold a job because of his inability 239 00:09:52,592 --> 00:09:55,203 to contain his homosexual inclinations. 240 00:09:55,203 --> 00:09:58,859 He's been in jail three times for committing homosexual acts. 241 00:09:58,859 --> 00:10:00,251 If he is arrested once more, 242 00:10:00,251 --> 00:10:02,906 he faces the possibility of life in prison. 243 00:10:02,906 --> 00:10:05,822 Uh, I know that inside now, I am sick. 244 00:10:05,822 --> 00:10:07,824 I'm not sick just sexually. 245 00:10:07,824 --> 00:10:09,696 I'm sick in a lot of ways. 246 00:10:09,696 --> 00:10:10,958 It was on a little bit later at night. 247 00:10:10,958 --> 00:10:12,612 It was close to my bedtime. 248 00:10:12,612 --> 00:10:15,615 I remember my parents watching it, 249 00:10:15,615 --> 00:10:20,054 and I remember wanting to hear everything that was being said 250 00:10:20,054 --> 00:10:22,796 but afraid that if I looked too attentive, 251 00:10:22,796 --> 00:10:24,972 it would be something suspicious. 252 00:10:24,972 --> 00:10:26,756 And it was scar-- 253 00:10:26,756 --> 00:10:29,324 From what I heard and what I could listen to 254 00:10:29,324 --> 00:10:31,805 and from what little I saw, I remember thinking, 255 00:10:31,805 --> 00:10:33,502 "This is bad. This is terrible. 256 00:10:33,502 --> 00:10:34,546 This is" -- 257 00:10:34,546 --> 00:10:36,374 You know, this is really... 258 00:10:36,374 --> 00:10:38,159 not a way to live one's life. 259 00:10:38,159 --> 00:10:40,857 Narrator: The average homosexual is promiscuous. 260 00:10:40,857 --> 00:10:42,163 He is not interested in 261 00:10:42,163 --> 00:10:44,252 nor capable of a lasting relationship 262 00:10:44,252 --> 00:10:46,558 like that of a heterosexual marriage. 263 00:10:46,558 --> 00:10:49,649 His sex life -- his love life -- 264 00:10:49,649 --> 00:10:51,912 consists of a series of chance encounters 265 00:10:51,912 --> 00:10:54,262 at the clubs and bars he inhabits. 266 00:10:55,742 --> 00:10:59,267 I mean, I remember myself thinking in the late '50s, 267 00:10:59,267 --> 00:11:04,141 when I wasn't sure, you know, what was going on with me -- 268 00:11:04,141 --> 00:11:08,319 um, I decided it was a phase I was going through 269 00:11:08,319 --> 00:11:10,060 and I would just enjoy it. 270 00:11:10,060 --> 00:11:13,281 And if I was still gay when I graduated from college, 271 00:11:13,281 --> 00:11:15,675 I would just commit suicide. 272 00:11:15,675 --> 00:11:18,025 I was living in an all-male dorm, 273 00:11:18,025 --> 00:11:21,115 and it was like gym class around the clock. 274 00:11:21,115 --> 00:11:23,030 You know, "Did you catch the game last night?" 275 00:11:23,030 --> 00:11:25,423 I mean, I didn't even know what sport they were referring to. 276 00:11:25,423 --> 00:11:27,425 The guys on my floor realized I was gay, 277 00:11:27,425 --> 00:11:30,298 and I just -- 278 00:11:30,298 --> 00:11:32,387 I just, like, had a breakdown. 279 00:11:32,387 --> 00:11:35,085 I went up on the roof of the high-rise dorm. 280 00:11:35,085 --> 00:11:37,435 I actually thought about jumping off. 281 00:11:37,435 --> 00:11:39,176 We didn't want to be -- 282 00:11:39,176 --> 00:11:42,527 Well, I sure did not want to be flamboyant. 283 00:11:42,527 --> 00:11:45,705 I was holding back all the time 284 00:11:45,705 --> 00:11:51,841 because you didn't want to come across as being "that way." 285 00:11:51,841 --> 00:11:53,582 So... 286 00:11:53,582 --> 00:11:58,587 I preferred to not be perceived as being gay. 287 00:11:58,587 --> 00:12:01,242 Somehow, I got the impression that I -- I -- I -- 288 00:12:01,242 --> 00:12:03,723 I would be treated better that way, 289 00:12:03,723 --> 00:12:06,247 where Gaétan was already so obvious 290 00:12:06,247 --> 00:12:08,031 that he must have dealt with that 291 00:12:08,031 --> 00:12:10,686 by just being even more glowing. 292 00:12:10,686 --> 00:12:13,645 Bec-- He would have been obvious as a gay person. 293 00:12:13,645 --> 00:12:16,344 Uh, I thought it was very brave of him. 294 00:12:16,344 --> 00:12:20,174 He's never a-- He was not holding back anything. 295 00:12:20,174 --> 00:12:23,046 He was ahead of his time, in a way -- he was. 296 00:12:23,046 --> 00:12:25,788 He was who he was, 297 00:12:25,788 --> 00:12:29,183 and he didn't pretend to be straight. 298 00:12:29,183 --> 00:12:32,229 Uh, some of the men I worked with past, 299 00:12:32,229 --> 00:12:38,235 he didn't -- he didn't really pretend anything. 300 00:12:38,235 --> 00:12:41,761 Um, internalized homophobia was a given. 301 00:12:41,761 --> 00:12:46,330 It would be like if you talked about -- 302 00:12:46,330 --> 00:12:47,984 if you talk about any minority -- 303 00:12:47,984 --> 00:12:51,640 Blacks or women -- if you just scratch -- 304 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:53,860 or Jews -- if you scratch the surface, 305 00:12:53,860 --> 00:12:57,994 you will discover a lot of internalized prejudice. 306 00:12:57,994 --> 00:13:00,605 I remember having a boyfriend who had, again, 307 00:13:00,605 --> 00:13:02,042 such internalized homophobia 308 00:13:02,042 --> 00:13:04,348 that he said to me, at one point, 309 00:13:04,348 --> 00:13:05,959 "I think that there's" -- 310 00:13:05,959 --> 00:13:07,656 "I think the worst thing that can happen to somebody 311 00:13:07,656 --> 00:13:09,005 is being gay." 312 00:13:09,005 --> 00:13:10,354 It was one of those relationships 313 00:13:10,354 --> 00:13:12,487 where I realized there was no possibility 314 00:13:12,487 --> 00:13:13,618 of that working out, 315 00:13:13,618 --> 00:13:16,360 because if he didn't love 316 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,536 what was an integral part of him, 317 00:13:18,536 --> 00:13:22,410 how could he love somebody who represented that? 318 00:13:22,410 --> 00:13:24,455 Well, I-I'm reminded of Paul Monette 319 00:13:24,455 --> 00:13:26,240 and his -- his -- his thesis 320 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,372 that we all make fine concierges. 321 00:13:28,372 --> 00:13:32,420 That there's just something about a gay man or a gay woman 322 00:13:32,420 --> 00:13:34,552 that wants to please others, 323 00:13:34,552 --> 00:13:38,818 um, that is still se-- searching for a level of acceptance 324 00:13:38,818 --> 00:13:42,038 and, um, understanding 325 00:13:42,038 --> 00:13:44,911 that is always sometime seems to be 326 00:13:44,911 --> 00:13:47,087 just -- just outside of their grasp. 327 00:13:47,087 --> 00:13:48,915 Coming of age in the '60s and '70s, 328 00:13:48,915 --> 00:13:51,918 there was a constant message out there -- a negative message 329 00:13:51,918 --> 00:13:54,224 that two gay men couldn't love each other. 330 00:13:54,224 --> 00:13:56,183 I mean, it was considered a joke. 331 00:13:56,183 --> 00:13:57,880 It was considered unworkable. 332 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,057 It was considered a-a fantasy. 333 00:14:01,057 --> 00:14:05,279 And that pernicious lie 334 00:14:05,279 --> 00:14:10,197 that gets woven into your psyche and into your being... 335 00:14:10,197 --> 00:14:14,679 um, kind of contributed to the kind of lifestyle 336 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,900 that led to these rising epidemics of STDs. 337 00:14:17,900 --> 00:14:20,685 But underneath it all, there is that message -- 338 00:14:20,685 --> 00:14:23,166 you know, that two men together is just -- 339 00:14:23,166 --> 00:14:24,559 As one expert said, 340 00:14:24,559 --> 00:14:27,692 "One penis plus one penis equals nothing." 341 00:14:27,692 --> 00:14:29,999 As if we're always reduced to our sexuality 342 00:14:29,999 --> 00:14:31,696 instead of our humanity. 343 00:14:31,696 --> 00:14:37,093 ♪♪ 344 00:14:37,093 --> 00:14:42,490 ♪♪ 345 00:14:42,490 --> 00:14:44,100 People who are young 346 00:14:44,100 --> 00:14:46,059 do not understand in any real way -- 347 00:14:46,059 --> 00:14:48,061 even if they know the fact -- 348 00:14:48,061 --> 00:14:50,367 homosexuality was against the law. 349 00:14:50,367 --> 00:14:51,716 It was against the law. 350 00:14:51,716 --> 00:14:54,197 Not just "your parents didn't like you," 351 00:14:54,197 --> 00:14:55,807 you know, or your -- you know, people 352 00:14:55,807 --> 00:14:57,200 you went to school with didn't like you. 353 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,376 It was actually a crime. 354 00:14:59,376 --> 00:15:02,075 Stewart: There was a special squad of police 355 00:15:02,075 --> 00:15:03,685 who used to hang out in public washrooms 356 00:15:03,685 --> 00:15:05,034 looking for gay behavior 357 00:15:05,034 --> 00:15:06,644 and then arresting people who exhibited it. 358 00:15:06,644 --> 00:15:08,429 And those names and numbers would go in the paper. 359 00:15:08,429 --> 00:15:13,695 ♪♪ 360 00:15:13,695 --> 00:15:16,350 We were warned about who -- who to speak to. 361 00:15:16,350 --> 00:15:19,353 Uh, if the guys were too good-looking, 362 00:15:19,353 --> 00:15:20,920 they were possibly cops 363 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,531 who were in there, um, to pick you up 364 00:15:23,531 --> 00:15:25,011 and then beat you up. 365 00:15:25,011 --> 00:15:26,577 Take them down to, uh, one of the beaches, 366 00:15:26,577 --> 00:15:29,450 and basically leave them there beat up. 367 00:15:29,450 --> 00:15:31,539 which was kind of, um, you know, 368 00:15:31,539 --> 00:15:34,759 a -- a regular weekend happening. 369 00:15:34,759 --> 00:15:36,631 If you were found out -- 370 00:15:36,631 --> 00:15:38,285 I mean, a lot of people kind of -- 371 00:15:38,285 --> 00:15:41,070 people kind of knew, if you played the game right, 372 00:15:41,070 --> 00:15:42,506 you'd be okay. 373 00:15:42,506 --> 00:15:45,205 But if you affirmed or asserted yourself 374 00:15:45,205 --> 00:15:47,598 or pushed in any way, shape, or form, 375 00:15:47,598 --> 00:15:49,383 lose your job like that. 376 00:15:49,383 --> 00:15:51,820 You lose your job anyway without doing that. 377 00:15:51,820 --> 00:15:56,564 There were no civil liberties protections of any kind. 378 00:15:56,564 --> 00:16:02,004 ♪♪ 379 00:16:02,004 --> 00:16:07,401 ♪♪ 380 00:16:07,401 --> 00:16:08,880 [Thunder crashing] 381 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:10,491 Denneny: Stonewall was like a thunderclap. 382 00:16:10,491 --> 00:16:13,189 The fact that gays had fought back 383 00:16:13,189 --> 00:16:15,191 was astonishing to me. 384 00:16:15,191 --> 00:16:18,107 There was a generation of young gay people 385 00:16:18,107 --> 00:16:20,109 who were more militarized. 386 00:16:20,109 --> 00:16:22,285 They weren't content with, 387 00:16:22,285 --> 00:16:25,897 "Oh, well, you really shouldn't be raiding gay bars. 388 00:16:25,897 --> 00:16:28,248 You shouldn't be arresting drag queens." 389 00:16:28,248 --> 00:16:31,207 When it yet again got raided by the police, 390 00:16:31,207 --> 00:16:33,818 the patrons decided, "Enough is enough. 391 00:16:33,818 --> 00:16:36,299 We're not going to put up with this anymore." 392 00:16:36,299 --> 00:16:40,173 And there was what's referred to as the Stonewall riots. 393 00:16:40,173 --> 00:16:45,308 And that -- for most certainly gay men -- 394 00:16:45,308 --> 00:16:48,877 um, marks th-the beginning of the gay liberation movement. 395 00:16:48,877 --> 00:16:50,792 All: [Chanting] Gay rights now! 396 00:16:50,792 --> 00:16:54,752 Gay rights now! Gay rights now! 397 00:16:54,752 --> 00:17:00,062 Gaétan Dugas epitomized a politic of a deep pleasure 398 00:17:00,062 --> 00:17:03,152 in the community we built up out of Stonewall 399 00:17:03,152 --> 00:17:05,241 against the odds -- against the Anita Bryants, 400 00:17:05,241 --> 00:17:07,200 against the rise of the Reagan right. 401 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,377 I love homosexuals, if you can believe that. 402 00:17:10,377 --> 00:17:12,466 I love them enough to tell them the truth, 403 00:17:12,466 --> 00:17:15,121 because I know that there is hope for the homosexuals -- 404 00:17:15,121 --> 00:17:19,168 that if they're willing to, uh, turn from, uh, sin 405 00:17:19,168 --> 00:17:20,778 the same as any individual, 406 00:17:20,778 --> 00:17:23,259 that, uh -- that they can be ex-homosexuals, 407 00:17:23,259 --> 00:17:24,739 the same as there can be an ex-murderer 408 00:17:24,739 --> 00:17:26,567 an ex-thief, or ex-anybody. 409 00:17:26,567 --> 00:17:28,482 Chorus: ♪ Air Canada ♪ 410 00:17:28,482 --> 00:17:30,875 ♪ Gives you the sky ♪ 411 00:17:30,875 --> 00:17:31,963 ♪ Come share our pride ♪ 412 00:17:31,963 --> 00:17:33,704 Levaque: We had a crew lounge 413 00:17:33,704 --> 00:17:37,273 where we had to check in all the time, 414 00:17:37,273 --> 00:17:40,363 and they were -- everybody was talking about Gaétan -- 415 00:17:40,363 --> 00:17:42,974 how beautiful he was, and so on. 416 00:17:42,974 --> 00:17:45,847 So I was obviously curious to see. 417 00:17:45,847 --> 00:17:48,632 And one day, I was in the comms center, 418 00:17:48,632 --> 00:17:50,330 and I saw him. 419 00:17:50,330 --> 00:17:52,071 Big smile. 420 00:17:52,071 --> 00:17:54,116 And we clicked right away. 421 00:17:54,116 --> 00:17:57,119 We -- we were friends instantly. 422 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,643 I appreciated working with Gaétan 423 00:17:59,643 --> 00:18:01,776 because I didn't have to follow him around. 424 00:18:01,776 --> 00:18:03,560 I didn't have to say, "Well, you know, 425 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,127 this is how we're supposed to do it. 426 00:18:05,127 --> 00:18:06,737 Why are you taking shortcuts?" 427 00:18:06,737 --> 00:18:08,391 Working for an airline 428 00:18:08,391 --> 00:18:11,394 was really a good home for -- for gay -- gay guys, 429 00:18:11,394 --> 00:18:14,354 gay people, lesbian, ehm, because they were 430 00:18:14,354 --> 00:18:17,748 extremely, extremely good workers. 431 00:18:17,748 --> 00:18:21,361 Of course, the airline, they were not blind to all this. 432 00:18:21,361 --> 00:18:24,364 They hired a lot of gay people. 433 00:18:24,364 --> 00:18:26,279 In fact, I would say at the time, 434 00:18:26,279 --> 00:18:30,500 it must have been at least 75%, 435 00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:33,286 80% of the guys were gay. 436 00:18:33,286 --> 00:18:36,027 Bisson: Word was out, at least among the gay people -- 437 00:18:36,027 --> 00:18:38,421 and probably even more around the street people -- 438 00:18:38,421 --> 00:18:43,296 that here was this, you know, uh, outrageous gay guy... 439 00:18:43,296 --> 00:18:45,124 um, you know, who, um -- 440 00:18:45,124 --> 00:18:46,560 Well, outrageous gay guy. 441 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:48,518 Oh, yes. That was Gaétan's attitude. 442 00:18:48,518 --> 00:18:49,824 Yeah. Like, you know? 443 00:18:49,824 --> 00:18:51,826 He doesn't have a problem about being gay. 444 00:18:51,826 --> 00:18:54,263 You do, so deal with it. 445 00:18:54,263 --> 00:18:56,918 He even add this shirt that just -- that -- 446 00:18:56,918 --> 00:18:58,572 tight, tight, tight, 447 00:18:58,572 --> 00:19:01,966 which was not the -- the airline rule. 448 00:19:01,966 --> 00:19:03,925 But he -- You know, he -- 449 00:19:03,925 --> 00:19:05,622 And his pants were so tight 450 00:19:05,622 --> 00:19:08,234 you could see everything, basically. 451 00:19:08,234 --> 00:19:10,932 I would say he was more than fairly [Laughs] flamboyant. 452 00:19:10,932 --> 00:19:12,586 He was incredibly flamboyant. 453 00:19:12,586 --> 00:19:14,631 He loved eyeshadows -- 454 00:19:14,631 --> 00:19:16,938 a little bit of blue or purple -- 455 00:19:16,938 --> 00:19:21,856 and he, um, also had, um, uh, mascara. 456 00:19:21,856 --> 00:19:24,032 How do you describe charisma? 457 00:19:24,032 --> 00:19:26,600 You know, but, yes, he walked down the hall, 458 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,080 and you could see him stand out, you know? 459 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,431 But he was very kind of, uh -- 460 00:19:31,431 --> 00:19:32,910 You know, he flowed. 461 00:19:32,910 --> 00:19:35,174 But a great personality. 462 00:19:35,174 --> 00:19:36,610 You could tell right away. 463 00:19:36,610 --> 00:19:39,917 Very smiling and joking right away. 464 00:19:39,917 --> 00:19:41,441 Urevig: Both of us, we used to 465 00:19:41,441 --> 00:19:43,747 color our hair the same color [Laughs], 466 00:19:43,747 --> 00:19:45,314 and we'd do it on his couch 467 00:19:45,314 --> 00:19:48,230 watching "The Young and the Restless." 468 00:19:48,230 --> 00:19:51,407 Levaque: I did get a white Corvette. 469 00:19:51,407 --> 00:19:53,931 Well...he said, 470 00:19:53,931 --> 00:19:55,542 "Oh, we must go for a ride. 471 00:19:55,542 --> 00:19:57,021 We must go for a ride." 472 00:19:57,021 --> 00:19:59,154 So we did... 473 00:19:59,154 --> 00:20:02,505 and you'd -- you would think that Gaétan would sit down 474 00:20:02,505 --> 00:20:04,899 in the passenger seat, and that's it. 475 00:20:04,899 --> 00:20:08,294 No, he was sitting in the back 476 00:20:08,294 --> 00:20:10,470 the moment we got to Young Street 477 00:20:10,470 --> 00:20:12,036 waving at the people. 478 00:20:12,036 --> 00:20:13,951 And I said, "I don't care." 479 00:20:13,951 --> 00:20:18,129 You know, everybody was laughing in a way or waving. 480 00:20:18,129 --> 00:20:19,827 Man: Actually, I've got copies 481 00:20:19,827 --> 00:20:21,785 of those pictures right here.Oh, you did? Okay. 482 00:20:21,785 --> 00:20:24,092 Yeah, I'm wondering if you would --So, can you see one? 483 00:20:24,092 --> 00:20:25,876 Can you -- Here.Ah. 484 00:20:25,876 --> 00:20:28,270 Gaétan i-in my -- 485 00:20:28,270 --> 00:20:31,099 the white Corvette. [Laughs] 486 00:20:31,099 --> 00:20:34,320 My best friend that died from AIDS, [Indistinct] McDonald. 487 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,496 Yeah. He's right there. 488 00:20:36,496 --> 00:20:38,715 He was with Gaétan at the time. 489 00:20:38,715 --> 00:20:42,110 Hairdresser in Yorkville. 490 00:20:42,110 --> 00:20:43,416 The sweetest man. 491 00:20:43,416 --> 00:20:45,113 French Canadian again. 492 00:20:45,113 --> 00:20:47,158 That was a good time 493 00:20:47,158 --> 00:20:48,943 because there was -- 494 00:20:48,943 --> 00:20:51,641 Was AIDS around at the time? 495 00:20:51,641 --> 00:20:54,862 I don't know, but there was no worry. 496 00:20:54,862 --> 00:20:56,559 We were having fun. 497 00:20:56,559 --> 00:20:57,560 ♪ Ooh ♪ 498 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,997 ♪♪ 499 00:20:59,997 --> 00:21:01,216 ♪ Ooh-ooh ♪ 500 00:21:01,216 --> 00:21:03,914 ♪♪ 501 00:21:03,914 --> 00:21:05,089 ♪ Ooh ♪ 502 00:21:05,089 --> 00:21:07,440 ♪♪ 503 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:08,702 ♪ Ooh-ooh ♪ 504 00:21:10,225 --> 00:21:13,054 The '70s were just fabulous. 505 00:21:13,054 --> 00:21:15,404 Um, you know, not only was there was all -- 506 00:21:15,404 --> 00:21:17,145 there was all this sex, 507 00:21:17,145 --> 00:21:20,409 and there was all this -- all these drugs going around, 508 00:21:20,409 --> 00:21:21,715 and we didn't yet know 509 00:21:21,715 --> 00:21:24,413 that drugs were really not a good idea. 510 00:21:24,413 --> 00:21:27,242 Levaque: You know, it is true that you could not believe 511 00:21:27,242 --> 00:21:28,722 what New York was like back then. 512 00:21:28,722 --> 00:21:30,593 You know, people would le-- be -- I w-- 513 00:21:30,593 --> 00:21:32,073 I would be, like, walking down the street 514 00:21:32,073 --> 00:21:33,640 with a friend of mine -- a -- a man who's gay -- 515 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,642 and I-- I would be talking to him, 516 00:21:35,642 --> 00:21:37,165 and then he would be gone. 517 00:21:37,165 --> 00:21:38,949 You know, and he would be like -- He saw someone 518 00:21:38,949 --> 00:21:40,951 in the street, they looked at each other, and they left. 519 00:21:40,951 --> 00:21:42,475 Rich: All through the '70s, 520 00:21:42,475 --> 00:21:45,652 sex was kind of the gay man's obligation. 521 00:21:45,652 --> 00:21:47,349 You had to prove that you were a gay man 522 00:21:47,349 --> 00:21:49,046 by having as much sex as possible 523 00:21:49,046 --> 00:21:50,831 because this was gay liberation. 524 00:21:50,831 --> 00:21:53,442 Stewart: And so, I remember being introduced to Gaétan. 525 00:21:53,442 --> 00:21:55,923 We didn't really click, 526 00:21:55,923 --> 00:21:59,579 and I -- I can tell you why is because Gaétan 527 00:21:59,579 --> 00:22:01,537 was a much more sexually adventurous person 528 00:22:01,537 --> 00:22:03,191 than I ever was. 529 00:22:03,191 --> 00:22:07,151 He was really, I think, the first gay man 530 00:22:07,151 --> 00:22:09,893 that went out and said, "This is my lifestyle." 531 00:22:09,893 --> 00:22:12,156 Lebowitz: And I remember saying to the straight guy, who I didn't know, 532 00:22:12,156 --> 00:22:15,029 "Are you telling me that if there was a street in New York 533 00:22:15,029 --> 00:22:17,814 filled with beautiful 20-year-old girls 534 00:22:17,814 --> 00:22:19,207 who you could just look at 535 00:22:19,207 --> 00:22:20,556 and take into a doorway or something, 536 00:22:20,556 --> 00:22:22,384 that you wouldn't do it? You would do it. 537 00:22:22,384 --> 00:22:24,604 You just can't do it because women won't do it." 538 00:22:24,604 --> 00:22:25,996 I mean, a small price to pay 539 00:22:25,996 --> 00:22:28,521 for owning the world, I would say. 540 00:22:28,521 --> 00:22:32,133 Being in a queer club 541 00:22:32,133 --> 00:22:35,223 or just a disco club early on, 542 00:22:35,223 --> 00:22:39,836 once you make it, you know, in the door past the doormen, 543 00:22:39,836 --> 00:22:42,622 there's liberation on the dance floor. 544 00:22:42,622 --> 00:22:44,885 Denneny: What it was, was anonymous. 545 00:22:44,885 --> 00:22:47,322 You did not know the name of the person, 546 00:22:47,322 --> 00:22:48,758 which meant you did not know 547 00:22:48,758 --> 00:22:51,892 whether this person was a truck driver, 548 00:22:51,892 --> 00:22:55,069 you know, or Vice President of Chase Bank. 549 00:22:55,069 --> 00:22:59,378 Lebowitz: Because we thought that sex was good for you. 550 00:22:59,378 --> 00:23:01,118 Like kale. 551 00:23:01,118 --> 00:23:03,991 Like, New York was a-- a-an orgy. 552 00:23:03,991 --> 00:23:05,253 I don't even describe it. 553 00:23:05,253 --> 00:23:07,429 And -- And, to me, it seemed like 554 00:23:07,429 --> 00:23:09,736 you couldn't possibly have sex with so many different people. 555 00:23:09,736 --> 00:23:11,868 What could be healthier? What could be more delightful? 556 00:23:11,868 --> 00:23:14,523 Berkowitz: Feminists were celebrating and reclaiming clitoral orgasm 557 00:23:14,523 --> 00:23:17,396 as -- as essential to women's sexuality. 558 00:23:17,396 --> 00:23:19,310 It was as if gay men were busy discovering 559 00:23:19,310 --> 00:23:21,182 that the other half of their dick 560 00:23:21,182 --> 00:23:22,705 was inside their rectum. 561 00:23:22,705 --> 00:23:24,577 It was a golden age while. 562 00:23:24,577 --> 00:23:25,969 Oh, it was. 563 00:23:25,969 --> 00:23:27,493 Yeah, a golden age. 564 00:23:27,493 --> 00:23:29,190 ♪♪ 565 00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:33,020 Houses in, like -- Well, in the '70s? 566 00:23:33,020 --> 00:23:34,151 Kind of fun. 567 00:23:34,151 --> 00:23:35,414 Kind of great. 568 00:23:35,414 --> 00:23:36,893 I mean, you know. 569 00:23:36,893 --> 00:23:39,113 Stoner: The bathhouses were meeting places. 570 00:23:39,113 --> 00:23:40,462 That's where you met people. 571 00:23:40,462 --> 00:23:41,855 You went dancing, and then you went 572 00:23:41,855 --> 00:23:43,465 to the bathhouse, you know? 573 00:23:43,465 --> 00:23:45,554 You're probably aware that the Continental Baths 574 00:23:45,554 --> 00:23:47,426 had Bette Midler. 575 00:23:47,426 --> 00:23:49,906 Maley: No one had to say, "Oh, this is Rock Hudson calling." 576 00:23:49,906 --> 00:23:51,865 We would walk him around to the booths 577 00:23:51,865 --> 00:23:54,302 and shove him in a booth, and you could hear someone go, 578 00:23:54,302 --> 00:23:56,565 "Oh, my God, it's Rock Hudson!" [Laughs] 579 00:23:56,565 --> 00:24:01,744 Elton John is right there, and he's dancing right beside. 580 00:24:01,744 --> 00:24:04,312 Denneny: Calvin Klein recently in "The New York Times" 581 00:24:04,312 --> 00:24:07,228 made a comment saying that the three great decades 582 00:24:07,228 --> 00:24:10,840 of the 20th century were Berlin in the '20s, 583 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,844 Paris and the '30s, and New York City in the '70s. 584 00:24:14,844 --> 00:24:16,672 And I -- I agree with him. 585 00:24:16,672 --> 00:24:18,021 They had discotheques 586 00:24:18,021 --> 00:24:20,328 and yes-gay discotheques everywhere -- 587 00:24:20,328 --> 00:24:23,723 London, New York, San Francisco -- 588 00:24:23,723 --> 00:24:25,202 all these places that we flew to. 589 00:24:25,202 --> 00:24:26,856 And I got very clearly, I think, 590 00:24:26,856 --> 00:24:29,816 that, uh, Gaétan liked having encounters 591 00:24:29,816 --> 00:24:31,992 that were no responsibility. 592 00:24:31,992 --> 00:24:35,038 Levaque: Sliding his business card. 593 00:24:35,038 --> 00:24:38,912 Or, th-- Or, they were coming from passengers. 594 00:24:38,912 --> 00:24:40,783 Watson: Gaétan had said, "Di-Did you notice 595 00:24:40,783 --> 00:24:44,047 the -- the guy in such-and-such's seat? 596 00:24:44,047 --> 00:24:45,527 Cute. 597 00:24:45,527 --> 00:24:48,138 I bet you I can make more time with him 598 00:24:48,138 --> 00:24:49,662 than you can." 599 00:24:49,662 --> 00:24:52,273 Uh, which often was true. [Laughs] 600 00:24:52,273 --> 00:24:54,667 "This guy is definitely straight. 601 00:24:54,667 --> 00:24:56,756 There's no way, Gaétan." 602 00:24:56,756 --> 00:24:59,846 Well, you know, he's gonna do anything with him, 603 00:24:59,846 --> 00:25:01,543 but the passenger go. 604 00:25:01,543 --> 00:25:03,110 It was more important 605 00:25:03,110 --> 00:25:07,331 to have a party for him, obviously. 606 00:25:07,331 --> 00:25:10,378 Berkowitz: But it was such a revelation... 607 00:25:10,378 --> 00:25:12,989 uh, to discover that -- 608 00:25:12,989 --> 00:25:17,254 that anal sex could be pleasurable and clea-- 609 00:25:17,254 --> 00:25:19,474 I mean, it was kind of an acquired taste. 610 00:25:19,474 --> 00:25:21,911 You didn't just -- Usually, you didn't jump into it. 611 00:25:21,911 --> 00:25:24,261 There was a whole subculture 612 00:25:24,261 --> 00:25:26,350 that went with learning how to bottom -- 613 00:25:26,350 --> 00:25:28,439 learning how to relax, learning how to douche, 614 00:25:28,439 --> 00:25:30,833 learning how to open up. 615 00:25:30,833 --> 00:25:32,574 You know, it wasn't just about sex. 616 00:25:32,574 --> 00:25:34,576 It was about men loving man. 617 00:25:34,576 --> 00:25:37,318 It was about seeing other gay men as your brother 618 00:25:37,318 --> 00:25:39,538 and caring about them and making love to them 619 00:25:39,538 --> 00:25:41,975 and being tender with them and affectionate with them 620 00:25:41,975 --> 00:25:44,238 and having relationships with them. 621 00:25:44,238 --> 00:25:46,762 Gaynor: Gaétan actually told me that he had a project 622 00:25:46,762 --> 00:25:48,851 of having sex with a different man every night. 623 00:25:48,851 --> 00:25:50,766 It was just kind of an entertainment. 624 00:25:50,766 --> 00:25:53,943 Like, it -- it was a project he worked on 625 00:25:53,943 --> 00:25:57,207 with great, uh, intensity and effort and success. 626 00:25:57,207 --> 00:26:00,559 Well, you know, if you scored, say, two nights a week, 627 00:26:00,559 --> 00:26:04,606 and you did that for a year, that's 100 people. 628 00:26:04,606 --> 00:26:08,218 So, from '71 to '81, that's 1,000 people. 629 00:26:08,218 --> 00:26:10,743 Your average gay man probably had sex 630 00:26:10,743 --> 00:26:12,962 with 1,000 people in that decade. 631 00:26:12,962 --> 00:26:15,748 And I'm sure Gaétan Dugas had sex 632 00:26:15,748 --> 00:26:17,924 with many more than 1,000 people. 633 00:26:17,924 --> 00:26:19,012 Ooh, yes. 634 00:26:19,012 --> 00:26:21,144 He was an extremely sexual man. 635 00:26:21,144 --> 00:26:22,711 He was always ready. [Laughing] 636 00:26:22,711 --> 00:26:24,757 Always ready, okay? You never knew. 637 00:26:24,757 --> 00:26:27,368 I was going to work, and he had his backpack, 638 00:26:27,368 --> 00:26:31,851 and, er, there was something in the backpack, and it fell. 639 00:26:31,851 --> 00:26:33,026 So, I said, "Oh, what's that --" 640 00:26:33,026 --> 00:26:34,288 [Gasps] [Speaking French] 641 00:26:35,289 --> 00:26:37,160 I can't go anywhere without that." [Laughing] 642 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:38,858 I'm sorry. 643 00:26:38,858 --> 00:26:42,078 So he picked it up right away and put it in his pocket 644 00:26:42,078 --> 00:26:44,385 Like, "Was he sexual?" I would say so. 645 00:26:44,385 --> 00:26:47,693 ♪ Ooooooh-ooh ♪ 646 00:26:47,693 --> 00:26:49,999 Sex, drugs, disco. 647 00:26:49,999 --> 00:26:51,392 ♪ Ooh-ooh ♪ 648 00:26:51,392 --> 00:26:52,480 Uh, sex. 649 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,525 ♪ Ooooooh-ooh ♪ 650 00:26:54,525 --> 00:26:56,789 Berkowitz: But as the '70s wore on 651 00:26:56,789 --> 00:27:00,662 and the commercialization of gay male sex exploded, 652 00:27:00,662 --> 00:27:02,533 you no longer had to care about the movement. 653 00:27:02,533 --> 00:27:05,275 You could just come in, get your rocks off, and go. 654 00:27:05,275 --> 00:27:09,410 And it didn't really force you to, um, think politically 655 00:27:09,410 --> 00:27:13,240 about, um, this being an opportunity for America 656 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,938 to move forward in terms of its empathy 657 00:27:15,938 --> 00:27:19,899 and understanding and bridging all these divides 658 00:27:19,899 --> 00:27:21,814 that the culture creates to keep us apart 659 00:27:21,814 --> 00:27:23,424 instead of united. 660 00:27:23,424 --> 00:27:26,166 ♪♪ 661 00:27:26,166 --> 00:27:28,516 Murray: You know, it's very easy to fall into the hedonistic side 662 00:27:28,516 --> 00:27:30,126 because it's intoxicating, 663 00:27:30,126 --> 00:27:33,042 but there was a price to pay, I think, for that. 664 00:27:34,740 --> 00:27:36,219 You could see from the lifestyle of New York 665 00:27:36,219 --> 00:27:39,396 that candles were being burned at both ends. 666 00:27:39,396 --> 00:27:42,878 [Clicks tongue] Yeah, it's great fun. 667 00:27:42,878 --> 00:27:46,099 But if it was a lifestyle, uh, it was gonna burn out. 668 00:27:46,099 --> 00:27:50,277 Young men full of testosterone and opportunity. 669 00:27:50,277 --> 00:27:52,583 Something was likely to happen. 670 00:27:53,759 --> 00:27:57,501 Friend of mine called from the other side of San Francisco, 671 00:27:57,501 --> 00:27:59,068 but he was straight, and he said, 672 00:27:59,068 --> 00:28:00,461 "Hey, have you heard about the new gay cancer? 673 00:28:00,461 --> 00:28:02,898 Ha-ha, there's a gay cancer out there." 674 00:28:02,898 --> 00:28:05,509 I w-- Tha-- No. 675 00:28:05,509 --> 00:28:06,989 That's crazy. 676 00:28:06,989 --> 00:28:08,687 Being gay has nothing to do with cancer. 677 00:28:09,949 --> 00:28:11,341 Um... 678 00:28:13,909 --> 00:28:16,912 And then, it just got awful. 679 00:28:16,912 --> 00:28:20,046 It got worse and worse and worse from that moment on. 680 00:28:20,046 --> 00:28:22,875 I wish I had never heard the term "gay cancer." 681 00:28:22,875 --> 00:28:25,747 ♪♪ 682 00:28:25,747 --> 00:28:27,488 Dr. Mass: This is very early '81. 683 00:28:27,488 --> 00:28:29,403 There's something going on, 684 00:28:29,403 --> 00:28:30,752 Uh, there's some people 685 00:28:30,752 --> 00:28:32,275 in the New York City emergency rooms 686 00:28:32,275 --> 00:28:35,583 with gay men, you know, who are seriously ill. 687 00:28:35,583 --> 00:28:38,368 And, uh, within a week or so, 688 00:28:38,368 --> 00:28:40,501 there were a couple of deaths reported. 689 00:28:42,416 --> 00:28:45,506 I had referred a man with a rash -- 690 00:28:45,506 --> 00:28:48,814 gay man with a peculiar sort of rash 691 00:28:48,814 --> 00:28:52,948 to my consultant dermatologist. 692 00:28:52,948 --> 00:28:56,386 And he phoned me back to postulate to me, 693 00:28:56,386 --> 00:28:57,910 "Isn't it a little strange? 694 00:28:57,910 --> 00:29:00,913 The-- All these very strange rashes 695 00:29:00,913 --> 00:29:02,610 that we've started seeing in gay men?" 696 00:29:02,610 --> 00:29:04,438 I remember the first person I knew who had AIDS, 697 00:29:04,438 --> 00:29:07,049 but no one knew what he had, and he died. 698 00:29:07,049 --> 00:29:09,051 I was so shocked. You know, "What did he die of?" 699 00:29:09,051 --> 00:29:12,141 Because we were too young to be dying. 700 00:29:12,141 --> 00:29:13,839 Reading the newspaper that morning, 701 00:29:13,839 --> 00:29:16,624 there was the famous little paragraph. 702 00:29:16,624 --> 00:29:20,149 "Eight New Yorkers died of mysterious gay cancer." 703 00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:23,413 And word was filtering from Fire Island. 704 00:29:23,413 --> 00:29:25,067 The whispers had begun. 705 00:29:25,067 --> 00:29:29,158 There were a lot of gay men coming to my practice 706 00:29:29,158 --> 00:29:32,292 who had unexplained lymphadenopathy, 707 00:29:32,292 --> 00:29:35,991 and lymphadenopathy is swelling of lymph glands. 708 00:29:35,991 --> 00:29:38,559 It could be in the neck, under the arms. 709 00:29:38,559 --> 00:29:43,999 And there was no easy explanation for it, 710 00:29:43,999 --> 00:29:48,221 as well as this peculiar occurrence 711 00:29:48,221 --> 00:29:50,876 of Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia 712 00:29:50,876 --> 00:29:54,314 in gay men in San Francisco and Los Angeles. 713 00:29:54,314 --> 00:29:55,706 McCaskell: We began to realize that this wasn't 714 00:29:55,706 --> 00:29:58,100 just a crazy, homophobic media story. 715 00:29:58,100 --> 00:30:00,276 There was something serious going on here. 716 00:30:00,276 --> 00:30:02,975 I was totally paranoid and scared shitless 717 00:30:02,975 --> 00:30:05,847 I was in a state of perpetual paranoia, and so was everybody. 718 00:30:05,847 --> 00:30:07,457 Everybody thought, "Oh, my God, I've got it." 719 00:30:07,457 --> 00:30:10,591 So, this young nurse had been admitted to the hospital 720 00:30:10,591 --> 00:30:13,333 the night before, uh, in September of that year. 721 00:30:13,333 --> 00:30:15,117 Came to my office with a purple spot 722 00:30:15,117 --> 00:30:17,032 on the bottom of each foot... 723 00:30:18,294 --> 00:30:21,036 ...and biopsy showed that it was Kaposi's sarcoma. 724 00:30:21,036 --> 00:30:23,212 Kaposi's sarcoma had been recognized 725 00:30:23,212 --> 00:30:27,434 as a very rare form of skin cancer -- 726 00:30:27,434 --> 00:30:31,090 um, little reddish or purplish lumps 727 00:30:31,090 --> 00:30:34,136 appearing on the skin, often on the feet, 728 00:30:34,136 --> 00:30:38,837 and, uh, mostly seeming to affect older men. 729 00:30:38,837 --> 00:30:40,534 Reporter 2: Normally, there are fewer than 20 cases 730 00:30:40,534 --> 00:30:42,623 of Kaposi a year in the United States, 731 00:30:42,623 --> 00:30:44,190 but in the last 18 months, 732 00:30:44,190 --> 00:30:46,496 more than 300 cases have been reported. 733 00:30:46,496 --> 00:30:49,369 The Kaposi's sarcoma that was affecting the younger gay men 734 00:30:49,369 --> 00:30:52,633 as part of this emergent new condition, um, 735 00:30:52,633 --> 00:30:56,550 became known as AIDS was far more aggressive, 736 00:30:56,550 --> 00:30:58,378 far more disseminated. 737 00:30:58,378 --> 00:30:59,640 The-- the thing about it 738 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,772 the sort of vaguely got my attention 739 00:31:01,772 --> 00:31:05,167 was the idea that it was an infectious cancer, 740 00:31:05,167 --> 00:31:06,473 'cause there aren't any 741 00:31:06,473 --> 00:31:08,214 infectious cancers, by and large. 742 00:31:08,214 --> 00:31:09,955 Well, there are some cases 743 00:31:09,955 --> 00:31:13,219 of something we don't really know ex-- yet what it is. 744 00:31:13,219 --> 00:31:16,570 They all seem to have immune deficiency. 745 00:31:16,570 --> 00:31:18,354 We have no idea what's causing it. 746 00:31:18,354 --> 00:31:20,008 "Is this something? 747 00:31:20,008 --> 00:31:22,837 Okay, is this something we should all know about?" 748 00:31:22,837 --> 00:31:27,189 And beginning to -- to kind of come to terms with -- with that. 749 00:31:27,189 --> 00:31:28,799 Lebowitz: I remember in San Francisco, 750 00:31:28,799 --> 00:31:31,150 people called it "gay waiter's disease." 751 00:31:31,150 --> 00:31:32,629 But of course, I mean, "gay waiter" 752 00:31:32,629 --> 00:31:35,632 was like a redundant phrase in San Francisco. 753 00:31:35,632 --> 00:31:37,243 A lot of people got it. 754 00:31:37,243 --> 00:31:40,942 Bang-bang-bang. With the airline, mostly. 755 00:31:40,942 --> 00:31:43,379 We were all over the place. 756 00:31:43,379 --> 00:31:45,425 It's... 757 00:31:45,425 --> 00:31:50,473 I-It's hard to explain how you feel at the time, 758 00:31:50,473 --> 00:31:54,608 where you can die if you do what? 759 00:31:54,608 --> 00:31:55,870 I don't know. 760 00:31:55,870 --> 00:31:57,611 It was, um... 761 00:31:57,611 --> 00:32:03,486 a time when we didn't stop partying and having sex -- 762 00:32:03,486 --> 00:32:05,532 because that connection hadn't been made -- 763 00:32:05,532 --> 00:32:08,317 but there was there a unease in the gay community about, 764 00:32:08,317 --> 00:32:11,233 did we actually dare go out i-into a club 765 00:32:11,233 --> 00:32:13,496 and, uh, you know, breathe the air 766 00:32:13,496 --> 00:32:14,976 from all these gay people? 767 00:32:14,976 --> 00:32:18,371 It's a bit difficult in the sense of, 768 00:32:18,371 --> 00:32:20,590 sometimes, you need to know what you're looking for 769 00:32:20,590 --> 00:32:22,070 in order to find it. 770 00:32:22,070 --> 00:32:23,898 And when you really don't know what it is, 771 00:32:23,898 --> 00:32:25,726 it becomes that much harder to find. 772 00:32:25,726 --> 00:32:28,511 You didn't have to be a rocket scientist 773 00:32:28,511 --> 00:32:30,992 to figure out that this was going to be a problem 774 00:32:30,992 --> 00:32:33,429 when you saw two cases and then four cases 775 00:32:33,429 --> 00:32:35,257 and then eight cases. 776 00:32:35,257 --> 00:32:37,607 I mean, that's an exponential growth. 777 00:32:37,607 --> 00:32:39,827 Watts: My hunch at the time 778 00:32:39,827 --> 00:32:42,873 was that this was gonna be an epidemic... 779 00:32:42,873 --> 00:32:47,400 and, unfortunately, my hunch was right. 780 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,490 ♪♪ 781 00:32:50,490 --> 00:32:52,013 Dr. Jaffe: I think when w-we realized 782 00:32:52,013 --> 00:32:53,232 what a big epidemic it was, 783 00:32:53,232 --> 00:32:54,407 it became very frightening. 784 00:32:54,407 --> 00:32:56,409 You know, how is this gonna end? 785 00:32:56,409 --> 00:32:59,151 I remember talking to a very prominent virologist 786 00:32:59,151 --> 00:33:02,937 in Boston who said, "What if it becomes airborne?" 787 00:33:02,937 --> 00:33:05,374 And I s-- all I could say is, "Everybody will die." 788 00:33:06,941 --> 00:33:11,511 It was a terrible period because of the uncertainty. 789 00:33:11,511 --> 00:33:16,255 You don't know exactly -- how is it transmitted? 790 00:33:16,255 --> 00:33:21,173 "Am I infected with the -- a death sentence here?" 791 00:33:21,173 --> 00:33:24,219 The-There were all sorts of weird theories. 792 00:33:24,219 --> 00:33:27,701 Uh, the -- the most common was poppers. 793 00:33:27,701 --> 00:33:30,225 Poppers are wonderful. [Chuckles] 794 00:33:30,225 --> 00:33:34,012 They make you feel a sense of euphoria. 795 00:33:34,012 --> 00:33:36,057 They're basically vasodilators. 796 00:33:36,057 --> 00:33:38,973 They give you -- They give you a quick high, 797 00:33:38,973 --> 00:33:41,845 and, uh, they were being used a lot amongst gay men. 798 00:33:41,845 --> 00:33:44,022 And everybody was praying 799 00:33:44,022 --> 00:33:46,502 that it was gonna be poppers, you know? 800 00:33:46,502 --> 00:33:48,200 'Cause we could give up poppers. 801 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,463 Or it was gonna be S&M, or it was gonna be fisting, 802 00:33:50,463 --> 00:33:52,421 or it was gonna be something we could give up. 803 00:33:52,421 --> 00:33:54,989 Gay men were getting a lot of infections at that time -- 804 00:33:54,989 --> 00:33:56,991 hepatitis and amoebas and whatnot. 805 00:33:56,991 --> 00:33:58,862 And it was thought that 806 00:33:58,862 --> 00:34:00,603 they were overloading their immune systems, 807 00:34:00,603 --> 00:34:03,519 and this -- what you were seeing with AIDS, 808 00:34:03,519 --> 00:34:06,566 which was clearly an immune system disease, 809 00:34:06,566 --> 00:34:08,263 was the result of this overload. 810 00:34:08,263 --> 00:34:10,004 Was this the CIA? 811 00:34:10,004 --> 00:34:12,354 Was this a urban myth? 812 00:34:12,354 --> 00:34:14,356 Let's -- Let's ignore it at all costs, 813 00:34:14,356 --> 00:34:16,402 because it's -- it's got to be a -- 814 00:34:16,402 --> 00:34:18,317 it's got to be a right-wing plot. 815 00:34:18,317 --> 00:34:21,537 And, certainly, the right-wing exploited it and demonized us 816 00:34:21,537 --> 00:34:23,670 in -- in exactly that way. 817 00:34:23,670 --> 00:34:25,150 So it's very understandable 818 00:34:25,150 --> 00:34:28,196 that people like myself or Gaétan 819 00:34:28,196 --> 00:34:32,244 would plug our ears somewhat, especially in the early years, 820 00:34:32,244 --> 00:34:34,768 even as we started to see friends getting sick 821 00:34:34,768 --> 00:34:35,986 and friends dying. 822 00:34:35,986 --> 00:34:38,946 ♪♪ 823 00:34:38,946 --> 00:34:40,730 Dr. Jaffe: Throughout the summer of 1981, 824 00:34:40,730 --> 00:34:44,256 we recorded interviews from AIDS cases. 825 00:34:44,256 --> 00:34:46,780 We were struck by how sick they were -- 826 00:34:46,780 --> 00:34:48,390 also about their lifestyles. 827 00:34:48,390 --> 00:34:51,524 That they had tended to be very sexually active gay men, 828 00:34:51,524 --> 00:34:53,395 travel a lot, use a lot of drugs, 829 00:34:53,395 --> 00:34:55,267 but we didn't know what the risk factors were. 830 00:34:55,267 --> 00:34:56,964 So we developed a case definition, 831 00:34:56,964 --> 00:35:00,010 distribute it to doctors, health departments, 832 00:35:00,010 --> 00:35:01,273 teaching hospitals. 833 00:35:01,273 --> 00:35:02,970 And as for cases, we reported 834 00:35:02,970 --> 00:35:05,494 two health departments, and then to CDC. 835 00:35:05,494 --> 00:35:09,019 Bill Darrow was a -- a -- a research sociologist, uh, 836 00:35:09,019 --> 00:35:10,630 in the STD division 837 00:35:10,630 --> 00:35:13,328 and an expert on sexual behavior, uh, 838 00:35:13,328 --> 00:35:16,462 both in gay men and in heterosexual populations. 839 00:35:16,462 --> 00:35:20,814 We get this report that three men in Los Angeles 840 00:35:20,814 --> 00:35:23,164 are -- all are in the same hospital. 841 00:35:23,164 --> 00:35:25,645 They apparently have the same condition. 842 00:35:25,645 --> 00:35:28,430 And the lover of one of these men says -- 843 00:35:28,430 --> 00:35:31,433 and the three have had sex with one another. 844 00:35:31,433 --> 00:35:34,741 This suggests that it's not poppers. 845 00:35:34,741 --> 00:35:36,264 You know, he didn't say 846 00:35:36,264 --> 00:35:39,963 that they were sniffing the same substance. 847 00:35:39,963 --> 00:35:42,749 That they had sex with one another. 848 00:35:42,749 --> 00:35:44,925 That's when the question came. 849 00:35:44,925 --> 00:35:47,449 "Well, are there any other sexual connections 850 00:35:47,449 --> 00:35:48,972 in Los Angeles? 851 00:35:48,972 --> 00:35:51,845 Let's have Bill Darrow fly out to Los Angeles 852 00:35:51,845 --> 00:35:55,675 and pursue the possibility of a cluster of cases 853 00:35:55,675 --> 00:36:00,810 connected by sexual contact within the last five years." 854 00:36:02,682 --> 00:36:05,989 So the first person that came in was actually a flight attendant, 855 00:36:05,989 --> 00:36:09,428 and, um, he -- he said that, you know, um, 856 00:36:09,428 --> 00:36:11,169 "One of my sex partners 857 00:36:11,169 --> 00:36:13,910 has been a very attractive steward 858 00:36:13,910 --> 00:36:16,043 who flies for Air Canada. 859 00:36:16,043 --> 00:36:20,613 Handsome guy, really nice guy, and I've had sex with him." 860 00:36:20,613 --> 00:36:22,049 "Can you tell me any more about him?" 861 00:36:22,049 --> 00:36:23,877 "Well, he kind of has an accent. 862 00:36:23,877 --> 00:36:26,271 Um, can't remember his name." 863 00:36:26,271 --> 00:36:28,751 In the afternoon, we talked to a second person 864 00:36:28,751 --> 00:36:31,580 and gave a very similar story. 865 00:36:31,580 --> 00:36:33,669 We had to drive all the way out to Orange County 866 00:36:33,669 --> 00:36:35,367 to interview this third person. 867 00:36:35,367 --> 00:36:38,065 And we got around to this business of naming sex partners, 868 00:36:38,065 --> 00:36:39,675 and here comes this same 869 00:36:39,675 --> 00:36:42,504 French Canadian flight attendant. 870 00:36:42,504 --> 00:36:44,680 "Can you remember his name?" 871 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:46,900 He said, "You know, I think I've got a card 872 00:36:46,900 --> 00:36:49,859 or some information in my address book. 873 00:36:49,859 --> 00:36:53,036 Let me -- Let me go see if I can find it." 874 00:36:53,036 --> 00:36:55,561 So, he excused himself, he went into his bedroom, 875 00:36:55,561 --> 00:36:57,345 and he came back with a big smile on his face. 876 00:36:57,345 --> 00:36:59,217 "I've got it! I've got it! I got it! 877 00:36:59,217 --> 00:37:00,522 Here's his name! 878 00:37:00,522 --> 00:37:03,786 I had sex with him on Thanksgiving, 879 00:37:03,786 --> 00:37:05,919 8709 Club, 880 00:37:05,919 --> 00:37:08,661 and afterwards, I came down with hepatitis. 881 00:37:08,661 --> 00:37:10,184 And then, he came back in December, 882 00:37:10,184 --> 00:37:12,273 I had sex with him again, and I bet that's when 883 00:37:12,273 --> 00:37:15,015 I got this disease that I've got now." 884 00:37:15,015 --> 00:37:17,452 "What's his name?" He says, "Here it is." 885 00:37:20,803 --> 00:37:25,330 Dugas had experienced fever and noticed swollen lymph nodes 886 00:37:25,330 --> 00:37:27,462 since January, 1980. 887 00:37:27,462 --> 00:37:30,465 When I met him, 888 00:37:30,465 --> 00:37:33,468 he had two visible spots of KS, 889 00:37:33,468 --> 00:37:36,036 visible when he's wearing clothing. 890 00:37:36,036 --> 00:37:37,820 One was on his forearm, 891 00:37:37,820 --> 00:37:39,779 and one was on the tip of his nose. 892 00:37:39,779 --> 00:37:42,129 The CDC numbered the cases 893 00:37:42,129 --> 00:37:45,175 in the order in which they came to the attention of CDC -- 894 00:37:45,175 --> 00:37:47,613 the order in which they were reported. 895 00:37:47,613 --> 00:37:51,921 So there had to have been 56 other people reported to us 896 00:37:51,921 --> 00:37:54,184 before he would -- would report it to us. 897 00:37:54,184 --> 00:37:57,710 And so, that's how I found out more about him. 898 00:37:57,710 --> 00:37:59,364 And then, I followed up 899 00:37:59,364 --> 00:38:02,280 by calling him and introducing myself. 900 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,195 And lo and behold, you know, before anything else happens, 901 00:38:05,195 --> 00:38:06,675 I'm meeting him in New York. 902 00:38:06,675 --> 00:38:09,722 I'm flying up to New York the next week. 903 00:38:09,722 --> 00:38:11,724 There was certainly a lot of fear 904 00:38:11,724 --> 00:38:14,117 because there was still a lot that was unknown about it. 905 00:38:14,117 --> 00:38:17,599 And so, I had no idea 906 00:38:17,599 --> 00:38:20,428 what the impact was going to be on me, um, 907 00:38:20,428 --> 00:38:22,256 as a result of having had sex with Gaétan. 908 00:38:22,256 --> 00:38:23,953 So, um, we were just -- 909 00:38:23,953 --> 00:38:26,608 a-a group of us all had just gone out to a -- 910 00:38:26,608 --> 00:38:28,044 to a tea dance in the afternoon, 911 00:38:28,044 --> 00:38:29,785 and he was a friend of a friend of mine. 912 00:38:29,785 --> 00:38:31,134 And one thing led to another, 913 00:38:31,134 --> 00:38:33,789 and we ended up going home together. 914 00:38:33,789 --> 00:38:35,617 He was very full of life. 915 00:38:35,617 --> 00:38:37,576 He was charming. 916 00:38:37,576 --> 00:38:40,405 Um, he just had a lot of fun and a lot of energy. 917 00:38:40,405 --> 00:38:41,797 Yeah, it was definitely risky. 918 00:38:41,797 --> 00:38:44,365 I was -- I bottomed for him, so... 919 00:38:44,365 --> 00:38:47,412 Week after we had, um, gone home together, 920 00:38:47,412 --> 00:38:49,327 I was talking with this mutual friend of ours, 921 00:38:49,327 --> 00:38:51,111 and I was saying, you know, "He seemed like a really nice guy." 922 00:38:51,111 --> 00:38:53,853 And he said, "Oh, yeah. He's got that weird gay cancer." 923 00:38:53,853 --> 00:38:56,159 And I was like, "What gay cancer?" 924 00:38:56,159 --> 00:38:57,204 I'd never heard of it. 925 00:38:57,204 --> 00:38:59,075 It was the first sort of time 926 00:38:59,075 --> 00:39:01,382 that anybody had even referenced something like that, 927 00:39:01,382 --> 00:39:03,253 and I sort of let it drop. 928 00:39:03,253 --> 00:39:05,299 And then, um, I started to hear a little bit more about it, 929 00:39:05,299 --> 00:39:08,041 and then I started to see, uh, news about it. 930 00:39:08,041 --> 00:39:11,871 And so, that became much more, again, embedded in my mind, 931 00:39:11,871 --> 00:39:14,917 and it was something that started to really impact 932 00:39:14,917 --> 00:39:17,137 my thought process. 933 00:39:17,137 --> 00:39:23,099 ♪♪ 934 00:39:23,099 --> 00:39:26,015 This was something, um... 935 00:39:26,015 --> 00:39:30,977 with the potential to impact our community 936 00:39:30,977 --> 00:39:33,283 and -- and -- and other communities 937 00:39:33,283 --> 00:39:35,677 in -- in much bigger ways. 938 00:39:35,677 --> 00:39:37,897 And so, suddenly, all of these boys 939 00:39:37,897 --> 00:39:39,986 who had had to hide who they were for years 940 00:39:39,986 --> 00:39:41,422 and pretend they weren't 941 00:39:41,422 --> 00:39:43,511 and deny to their parents that they were gay 942 00:39:43,511 --> 00:39:46,166 and they weren't married because they were bachelors. 943 00:39:46,166 --> 00:39:47,776 We don't have bachelors anymore. 944 00:39:47,776 --> 00:39:50,126 Suddenly, they could be who they were. 945 00:39:50,126 --> 00:39:52,564 And now, we had a disease come along and say, 946 00:39:52,564 --> 00:39:53,956 "You can't do that"? 947 00:39:53,956 --> 00:39:55,654 We had finally found our moment in time 948 00:39:55,654 --> 00:39:56,916 where we could have sex. 949 00:39:56,916 --> 00:39:58,439 We could have af fa-- affairs. 950 00:39:58,439 --> 00:40:00,528 We could do what we wanted, finally, 951 00:40:00,528 --> 00:40:03,009 and no one could say, "No, you can't do that" anymore. 952 00:40:03,009 --> 00:40:06,360 And to have AIDS crash into that party -- 953 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:07,709 Oh, my goodness. 954 00:40:07,709 --> 00:40:09,232 Murray: So, you had, on the one hand, 955 00:40:09,232 --> 00:40:11,670 this gay sexual liberation 956 00:40:11,670 --> 00:40:14,760 and -- and people really experiencing 957 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,023 what it was like to be gay in a way they'd never 958 00:40:17,023 --> 00:40:18,720 been able to do before.[Crowd chanting] 959 00:40:18,720 --> 00:40:24,770 And a move to the right, from a government standpoint -- 960 00:40:24,770 --> 00:40:26,598 it was a perfect storm 961 00:40:26,598 --> 00:40:31,385 because it allowed that group to come in and say, 962 00:40:31,385 --> 00:40:33,474 "This is the price you pay. 963 00:40:33,474 --> 00:40:36,390 What you are and what you do is wrong." 964 00:40:36,390 --> 00:40:38,000 All: [Chanting] No more faggots! 965 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,526 No more faggots! No more faggots! 966 00:40:41,526 --> 00:40:45,443 No more faggots!Denneny: A disease that only hits gay men, 967 00:40:45,443 --> 00:40:48,184 hits them in their sexuality. 968 00:40:48,184 --> 00:40:50,622 I mean, i-it was like the perfect metaphor 969 00:40:50,622 --> 00:40:53,842 for the homophobia of the whole society. 970 00:40:53,842 --> 00:40:55,365 And it did seem to me 971 00:40:55,365 --> 00:40:59,021 that reality is not supposed to come 972 00:40:59,021 --> 00:41:01,110 already packed with the metaphors. 973 00:41:01,110 --> 00:41:03,896 You know, it's like everything we gained was -- 974 00:41:03,896 --> 00:41:06,420 looked like it was being taken away from us again. 975 00:41:06,420 --> 00:41:09,467 I still remember a relative in Europe... 976 00:41:09,467 --> 00:41:10,816 When they found out that I was gay, 977 00:41:10,816 --> 00:41:12,382 and they just turned to me and said, 978 00:41:12,382 --> 00:41:14,036 "Well, AIDS will get you." 979 00:41:14,036 --> 00:41:18,476 ♪♪ 980 00:41:18,476 --> 00:41:21,087 The timing of it all was really eerie, 981 00:41:21,087 --> 00:41:23,524 so there is something uncanny about it. 982 00:41:23,524 --> 00:41:26,484 It's very Shakespearean, the way that this happened. 983 00:41:26,484 --> 00:41:28,442 To have this breakthrough -- 984 00:41:28,442 --> 00:41:33,099 to get this incredible outpouring, um, of support, 985 00:41:33,099 --> 00:41:36,058 of acceptance, of a community coming into its own, 986 00:41:36,058 --> 00:41:38,670 of demanding a -- a place at the table, 987 00:41:38,670 --> 00:41:42,108 of having great success in almost every sector -- 988 00:41:42,108 --> 00:41:45,938 and then to just be wiped out, um, 989 00:41:45,938 --> 00:41:48,810 as if in some diabolical plan. 990 00:41:48,810 --> 00:41:51,987 Willie Brown actually said this to me early on. 991 00:41:51,987 --> 00:41:55,556 He said something to the effect of, 992 00:41:55,556 --> 00:41:57,602 "This occurring right now -- 993 00:41:57,602 --> 00:41:59,778 with gay rights just having happened -- 994 00:41:59,778 --> 00:42:01,388 would be like telling black people 995 00:42:01,388 --> 00:42:04,130 they have to go back to the back of the bus." 996 00:42:05,740 --> 00:42:06,741 [Slaps hands on legs] 997 00:42:06,741 --> 00:42:09,004 ♪♪ 998 00:42:09,004 --> 00:42:12,704 Darrow: When I went to interview the "Out of California" case, 999 00:42:12,704 --> 00:42:14,183 I was very impressed with him. 1000 00:42:14,183 --> 00:42:16,098 He -- He seemed like an intelligent person. 1001 00:42:16,098 --> 00:42:17,447 He was very well dressed. 1002 00:42:17,447 --> 00:42:19,101 At the time, he didn't have any hair 1003 00:42:19,101 --> 00:42:23,062 because he had just completed a round of chemotherapy. 1004 00:42:23,062 --> 00:42:25,151 But he was very concerned about his condition 1005 00:42:25,151 --> 00:42:28,110 and about the concern of other people, as well. 1006 00:42:28,110 --> 00:42:30,939 Uh, because many of his friends in New York City 1007 00:42:30,939 --> 00:42:35,553 and even some in Canada had very similar symptoms 1008 00:42:35,553 --> 00:42:38,294 to the symptoms that he was experiencing, 1009 00:42:38,294 --> 00:42:42,211 and some of his friends were so ill that they had died. 1010 00:42:42,211 --> 00:42:43,909 So he was very cooperative 1011 00:42:43,909 --> 00:42:47,129 when I started asking him questions about his sex life. 1012 00:42:47,129 --> 00:42:48,914 And I said, "How about your sex partners?" 1013 00:42:48,914 --> 00:42:50,959 And he says, "Well, I can remember a few of them, 1014 00:42:50,959 --> 00:42:53,832 but, gee, I've had so many, and I hope you understand why. 1015 00:42:53,832 --> 00:42:55,573 I'm in a different town every night. 1016 00:42:55,573 --> 00:42:59,185 I'm a young guy, so I go out every night and I have fun." 1017 00:42:59,185 --> 00:43:03,581 So he averaged about 250 different sex partners a year. 1018 00:43:03,581 --> 00:43:06,018 I said, "Do you have an address book? 1019 00:43:06,018 --> 00:43:07,280 Little black book?" 1020 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,108 He says, "I do." 1021 00:43:09,108 --> 00:43:13,329 I said, "Would you mind sharing the names with me?" 1022 00:43:13,329 --> 00:43:15,114 He said, "No, I'll be glad to." 1023 00:43:15,114 --> 00:43:16,898 And he started reading me notes. 1024 00:43:16,898 --> 00:43:19,379 He read me 72 names before he said, 1025 00:43:19,379 --> 00:43:21,120 It's 6:30. I've got to go." 1026 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:23,383 If other people had the same amount 1027 00:43:23,383 --> 00:43:25,777 of information that he had, we probably would have been able 1028 00:43:25,777 --> 00:43:27,779 to make many more connections 1029 00:43:27,779 --> 00:43:31,957 and been able to have solved this jigsaw puzzle 1030 00:43:31,957 --> 00:43:34,307 much faster than we did. 1031 00:43:34,307 --> 00:43:37,484 Here is the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report. 1032 00:43:37,484 --> 00:43:40,618 In this report, there were no figures. 1033 00:43:40,618 --> 00:43:43,185 There's no graphs, but there is reference 1034 00:43:43,185 --> 00:43:45,318 to an "out of California" case. 1035 00:43:45,318 --> 00:43:49,104 Everybody gets the idea that this guy, at that point, 1036 00:43:49,104 --> 00:43:51,716 was the person who brought AIDS to California. 1037 00:43:51,716 --> 00:43:53,195 That was sort of -- It wasn't called AIDS yet, 1038 00:43:53,195 --> 00:43:54,196 by the way, at this point. 1039 00:43:54,196 --> 00:43:55,502 It was still called GRID. 1040 00:43:55,502 --> 00:43:58,113 GRID -- Gay Related Immunodeficiency, 1041 00:43:58,113 --> 00:44:02,074 which made the whole disease seem as though 1042 00:44:02,074 --> 00:44:05,643 it was the result of somebody's sexual orientation 1043 00:44:05,643 --> 00:44:08,254 rather than action -- 1044 00:44:08,254 --> 00:44:09,734 You know, some action they had taken, 1045 00:44:09,734 --> 00:44:11,561 something they had encountered. 1046 00:44:11,561 --> 00:44:13,172 A microbe. 1047 00:44:13,172 --> 00:44:20,745 ♪♪ 1048 00:44:20,745 --> 00:44:28,317 ♪♪ 1049 00:44:28,317 --> 00:44:35,934 ♪♪ 1050 00:44:35,934 --> 00:44:39,807 We had this hotline on Castro Street... 1051 00:44:39,807 --> 00:44:41,896 and this patient would turn up. 1052 00:44:41,896 --> 00:44:45,639 The minute he did, the hotline would light up. 1053 00:44:45,639 --> 00:44:46,640 He's here. 1054 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,077 He's having sex with people. 1055 00:44:49,077 --> 00:44:52,211 He tells them he's -- he, uh, has the gay cancer. 1056 00:44:52,211 --> 00:44:55,040 By the end of the summer of 1982, 1057 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,696 Kaposi's sarcoma was summoning a huge amount of attention 1058 00:44:58,696 --> 00:45:01,568 and upset in San Francisco. 1059 00:45:01,568 --> 00:45:04,005 ♪♪ 1060 00:45:04,005 --> 00:45:07,748 Anybody with KS lesions who continued to go out 1061 00:45:07,748 --> 00:45:09,619 would draw attention. 1062 00:45:09,619 --> 00:45:12,753 And given that we know that Gaétan did not like 1063 00:45:12,753 --> 00:45:15,147 to be told what he could or could not do, 1064 00:45:15,147 --> 00:45:18,846 it seems quite likely that he would draw attention. 1065 00:45:18,846 --> 00:45:21,936 [Door slams]Gaétan Dugas, uh, 1066 00:45:21,936 --> 00:45:23,285 was very comfortable 1067 00:45:23,285 --> 00:45:25,070 going to various public health people 1068 00:45:25,070 --> 00:45:27,507 to talk about his disease. 1069 00:45:27,507 --> 00:45:31,554 He met with Selma Dritz, and according to Selma, uh, 1070 00:45:31,554 --> 00:45:34,122 she counseled him that he should not have sex -- 1071 00:45:34,122 --> 00:45:37,125 that he was, perhaps, dangerous. 1072 00:45:37,125 --> 00:45:39,432 And he said, "You're not going to tell me 1073 00:45:39,432 --> 00:45:41,216 how I should behave." 1074 00:45:41,216 --> 00:45:44,393 I told him that he was getting other people sick with it, 1075 00:45:44,393 --> 00:45:48,484 and he said, "It's my right to do whatever I want. 1076 00:45:48,484 --> 00:45:49,877 My civil rights." 1077 00:45:49,877 --> 00:45:52,358 Gaétan had, uh -- uh, different beliefs 1078 00:45:52,358 --> 00:45:55,230 a-about, uh -- a-a-about his condition. 1079 00:45:55,230 --> 00:45:59,147 Uh, his approach was, "Show me, prove to me 1080 00:45:59,147 --> 00:46:01,193 how this disease is transmitted, 1081 00:46:01,193 --> 00:46:04,413 and if I'm doing anything that i-is transmitting it, 1082 00:46:04,413 --> 00:46:05,980 I may acknowledge it -- 1083 00:46:05,980 --> 00:46:08,853 if you can prove to me that this is the case." 1084 00:46:08,853 --> 00:46:11,116 I don't remember what, uh, triggered me 1085 00:46:11,116 --> 00:46:13,466 to call Air Canada, but I did call Air Canada. 1086 00:46:13,466 --> 00:46:16,251 I wanted to talk to the, um, Medical Director 1087 00:46:16,251 --> 00:46:19,341 a-and, um, find out if there was some way 1088 00:46:19,341 --> 00:46:21,430 to limit his ability to travel. 1089 00:46:21,430 --> 00:46:24,216 A doctor telling us we've got to start w-- 1090 00:46:24,216 --> 00:46:27,436 you know, uh, watching what we do sexually 1091 00:46:27,436 --> 00:46:29,351 and that there's, you know -- it's -- it's troubled, 1092 00:46:29,351 --> 00:46:32,180 and we gotta, you know, curtail our activities. 1093 00:46:32,180 --> 00:46:35,575 I totally understood the f-- terror 1094 00:46:35,575 --> 00:46:39,274 that gay men had about AIDS pushing us back into the arms 1095 00:46:39,274 --> 00:46:40,841 of the medical establishment. 1096 00:46:40,841 --> 00:46:44,453 It was only in the very early '70s that, um -- 1097 00:46:44,453 --> 00:46:47,761 that, uh, homosexuality was no longer seen as a disease, 1098 00:46:47,761 --> 00:46:49,023 It was taken out of the, uh -- 1099 00:46:49,023 --> 00:46:50,416 the Diagnostic Statistical Manual 1100 00:46:50,416 --> 00:46:52,679 of the American Psychiatric Association. 1101 00:46:52,679 --> 00:46:55,508 And so, doctors had always been trying to cure us. 1102 00:46:55,508 --> 00:46:57,423 A flight attendant in 1982 1103 00:46:57,423 --> 00:46:59,817 looked terrible on chemotherapy -- 1104 00:46:59,817 --> 00:47:01,644 like death warmed over. 1105 00:47:01,644 --> 00:47:04,082 He had lost hair and weight. 1106 00:47:04,082 --> 00:47:07,215 Nonetheless, Dugas' attitude carried him through. 1107 00:47:07,215 --> 00:47:09,087 He was always hopeful 1108 00:47:09,087 --> 00:47:11,437 and kept saying he would beat it. 1109 00:47:11,437 --> 00:47:15,093 I can remember sending Gaétan encouraging letters. 1110 00:47:15,093 --> 00:47:18,661 I have a card that he sent me in January, 1982, 1111 00:47:18,661 --> 00:47:21,577 when he was feeling depressed about the loss of hair. 1112 00:47:21,577 --> 00:47:23,797 Saying he feels like an alien. 1113 00:47:23,797 --> 00:47:27,714 ♪♪ 1114 00:47:27,714 --> 00:47:32,588 96% of all the people I saw then died. 1115 00:47:34,025 --> 00:47:38,681 Smallpox, Ebola, only kills 60%... 1116 00:47:38,681 --> 00:47:40,248 and we were talking about -- 1117 00:47:40,248 --> 00:47:44,557 virtually everyone was going to die. 1118 00:47:44,557 --> 00:47:47,995 Had that been happening to any other group in the society, 1119 00:47:47,995 --> 00:47:50,128 there would have been massive hysteria 1120 00:47:50,128 --> 00:47:52,521 all over the country, you know? 1121 00:47:52,521 --> 00:47:55,437 And, in fact, what we got was total silence. 1122 00:47:55,437 --> 00:47:57,787 It's more like what happens in a war, you know? 1123 00:47:57,787 --> 00:47:59,485 Where, you know, all of a sudden, 1124 00:47:59,485 --> 00:48:02,401 a whole generation of people, you know, are put 1125 00:48:02,401 --> 00:48:04,794 in this incredible danger, and many of them die. 1126 00:48:04,794 --> 00:48:06,753 It was such an extreme difference 1127 00:48:06,753 --> 00:48:09,582 from people who are like 25 and look 25, 1128 00:48:09,582 --> 00:48:12,759 And then, in five minutes, they looked 95. 1129 00:48:12,759 --> 00:48:16,763 It -- It's terrible because it's a slow death, in a way, 1130 00:48:16,763 --> 00:48:20,506 and you see the body basically decompose 1131 00:48:20,506 --> 00:48:22,943 in front of your face. 1132 00:48:22,943 --> 00:48:26,512 A -- A beautiful man is turning into... 1133 00:48:28,079 --> 00:48:29,254 ...nothing. 1134 00:48:29,254 --> 00:48:30,995 There's a fellow actor... 1135 00:48:30,995 --> 00:48:35,173 uh, named, uh, Joe Cappetta, 1136 00:48:35,173 --> 00:48:37,697 that became ill and died fairly early on 1137 00:48:37,697 --> 00:48:39,873 who was hospitalized. 1138 00:48:39,873 --> 00:48:41,788 The food service worker 1139 00:48:41,788 --> 00:48:45,705 wouldn't bring his -- his tray into the room. 1140 00:48:45,705 --> 00:48:49,622 Just set it on the floor outside. 1141 00:48:50,797 --> 00:48:52,233 A lot of hospitals -- 1142 00:48:52,233 --> 00:48:53,887 especially outside of San Francisco -- 1143 00:48:53,887 --> 00:48:57,108 they wouldn't let the partner come visit their lover 1144 00:48:57,108 --> 00:48:59,284 in -- in bed as he was dying 1145 00:48:59,284 --> 00:49:01,460 because he wasn't a "family member." 1146 00:49:01,460 --> 00:49:02,852 They didn't want you around at all. 1147 00:49:02,852 --> 00:49:05,681 You -- They were ashamed of you. 1148 00:49:05,681 --> 00:49:08,162 And you did this to him, probably. 1149 00:49:08,162 --> 00:49:13,428 ♪♪ 1150 00:49:13,428 --> 00:49:17,824 We were being vilified by the media, 1151 00:49:17,824 --> 00:49:19,043 by right wing politicians. 1152 00:49:19,043 --> 00:49:21,088 I mean, truly vilified. 1153 00:49:21,088 --> 00:49:22,872 But then, we have to remember 1154 00:49:22,872 --> 00:49:25,832 that there were mainstream figures 1155 00:49:25,832 --> 00:49:27,877 who suggested putting gay people -- 1156 00:49:27,877 --> 00:49:32,317 people with HIV -- in -- in camps. 1157 00:49:32,317 --> 00:49:36,364 Um, tattooing "HIV" on -- on our bodies. 1158 00:49:36,364 --> 00:49:38,714 The only way to stop them -- stop it is quarantine people. 1159 00:49:38,714 --> 00:49:40,673 I-I-I don't think there's any way around it. 1160 00:49:40,673 --> 00:49:42,283 I think they're gonna have to do it. 1161 00:49:43,284 --> 00:49:46,548 Lovers were thrown out of their boyfriends' apartments. 1162 00:49:46,548 --> 00:49:48,811 Um, they were not allowed 1163 00:49:48,811 --> 00:49:52,815 to go to the funeral of their partner who had died. 1164 00:49:52,815 --> 00:49:54,904 Uh, it's -- it's -- 1165 00:49:54,904 --> 00:49:57,516 it's really grotesque, the way that people behave. 1166 00:49:57,516 --> 00:49:58,865 You know, very much in the same way 1167 00:49:58,865 --> 00:50:02,129 that, in 2016, you said, 1168 00:50:02,129 --> 00:50:04,827 "Who are these people who voted for that man?" 1169 00:50:04,827 --> 00:50:08,092 You knew who those people were back then in the 1980s. 1170 00:50:08,092 --> 00:50:09,571 They haven't gone away. 1171 00:50:09,571 --> 00:50:12,531 ♪♪ 1172 00:50:12,531 --> 00:50:13,923 I mean, the Reagan Administration 1173 00:50:13,923 --> 00:50:15,969 simply didn't want to acknowledge the problem. 1174 00:50:15,969 --> 00:50:18,450 It was said at the time -- and I think it's true -- 1175 00:50:18,450 --> 00:50:21,583 if the outbreak had occurred in a heterosexual population, 1176 00:50:21,583 --> 00:50:22,976 they would be all over it. 1177 00:50:22,976 --> 00:50:24,630 But it was easy to marginalize gay men 1178 00:50:24,630 --> 00:50:27,937 at the time and say, "Well, who cares?" 1179 00:50:27,937 --> 00:50:29,939 There was an interview done with Larry Speakes, 1180 00:50:29,939 --> 00:50:32,812 who was the Press Secretary to President Reagan, 1181 00:50:32,812 --> 00:50:34,466 where he was asked about the AIDS epidemic. 1182 00:50:34,466 --> 00:50:36,120 And he said, "What's that?" 1183 00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:46,043 ♪♪ 1184 00:50:46,043 --> 00:50:55,965 ♪♪ 1185 00:50:55,965 --> 00:51:05,888 ♪♪ 1186 00:51:05,888 --> 00:51:06,976 [Laughter, groaning] 1187 00:51:36,789 --> 00:51:38,182 [Laughter] 1188 00:51:39,357 --> 00:51:41,228 [Echoing laughter fades] 1189 00:51:43,317 --> 00:51:45,450 ♪♪ 1190 00:51:45,450 --> 00:51:48,757 Patient Zero was clearly a very helpful person to us. 1191 00:51:48,757 --> 00:51:50,455 He didn't have to be. He didn't have to give us 1192 00:51:50,455 --> 00:51:52,109 the names of his sex partners, but he did, 1193 00:51:52,109 --> 00:51:54,850 and that turned out to be extremely useful 1194 00:51:54,850 --> 00:51:57,723 because it allowed Bill Darrow to contact those people, 1195 00:51:57,723 --> 00:51:59,072 follow up on them, 1196 00:51:59,072 --> 00:52:00,726 find out who else they had sex with, 1197 00:52:00,726 --> 00:52:02,815 and construct the cluster. 1198 00:52:02,815 --> 00:52:06,819 But then, we wanted to see how far the cluster went. 1199 00:52:06,819 --> 00:52:09,691 We only had information about Los Angeles 1200 00:52:09,691 --> 00:52:12,346 and this one Out of California Case. 1201 00:52:12,346 --> 00:52:15,610 So I went up to New York, and I followed up 1202 00:52:15,610 --> 00:52:19,005 on the 72 different partners that he named. 1203 00:52:19,005 --> 00:52:21,703 The important thing was to try to show 1204 00:52:21,703 --> 00:52:24,619 that there were connections between Los Angeles cases 1205 00:52:24,619 --> 00:52:27,448 and cases in other parts of the United States. 1206 00:52:27,448 --> 00:52:29,189 Here's the original drawing 1207 00:52:29,189 --> 00:52:33,541 on a piece of, um, yellow paper... 1208 00:52:33,541 --> 00:52:36,588 about Case 57, 1209 00:52:36,588 --> 00:52:39,808 which was the person later referred to 1210 00:52:39,808 --> 00:52:42,420 as the Out of California Case 1211 00:52:42,420 --> 00:52:44,900 and a drawing showing connections. 1212 00:52:44,900 --> 00:52:48,730 Two exposures with a case in 1979. 1213 00:52:48,730 --> 00:52:52,038 Um, a case -- Case Number 40. 1214 00:52:52,038 --> 00:52:54,606 Um, here he is going to Toronto. 1215 00:52:54,606 --> 00:52:56,260 Here he is at NYU. 1216 00:52:56,260 --> 00:52:59,001 So, here, "Case 57 is described 1217 00:52:59,001 --> 00:53:02,440 as a 30-year-old flight attendant from Toronto." 1218 00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:04,311 [Engines roaring]Levaque: I lost contact 1219 00:53:04,311 --> 00:53:06,226 with Gaétan for a while 1220 00:53:06,226 --> 00:53:09,011 the moment he -- he left for Vancouver. 1221 00:53:09,011 --> 00:53:11,405 And I saw him once. 1222 00:53:11,405 --> 00:53:13,364 He was running through the terminal. 1223 00:53:13,364 --> 00:53:16,584 And we embrace, and we chat, 1224 00:53:16,584 --> 00:53:19,848 but he had very, very short hair at the time. 1225 00:53:19,848 --> 00:53:22,938 He had a few spots on his face. 1226 00:53:22,938 --> 00:53:25,114 And I noticed that there was a fairly common theme 1227 00:53:25,114 --> 00:53:28,553 that, e-essentially, Gaétan in Vancouver 1228 00:53:28,553 --> 00:53:31,599 was the personage -- the face of AIDS, 1229 00:53:31,599 --> 00:53:33,949 a-and it just seemed so ludicrous. 1230 00:53:33,949 --> 00:53:37,431 There were stories that Gaétan was having unprotected sex 1231 00:53:37,431 --> 00:53:39,868 with, uh, other -- other people. 1232 00:53:39,868 --> 00:53:42,393 And i-it was, uh -- h-he was reported 1233 00:53:42,393 --> 00:53:43,698 that he was in the bars 1234 00:53:43,698 --> 00:53:44,873 and he was going home with people, 1235 00:53:44,873 --> 00:53:46,310 and this sort of thing. 1236 00:53:46,310 --> 00:53:48,355 And AIDS Vancouver felt like they needed 1237 00:53:48,355 --> 00:53:50,792 to have some kind of response to address what -- 1238 00:53:50,792 --> 00:53:52,664 what these rumors represented. 1239 00:53:52,664 --> 00:53:55,928 I do remember specifically having a conversation with him 1240 00:53:55,928 --> 00:53:59,671 about promiscuity and bathhouses and etc., etc. 1241 00:53:59,671 --> 00:54:02,326 He said, "You know, people just don't get it, 1242 00:54:02,326 --> 00:54:05,067 eh, because if I was in the bathhouses 1243 00:54:05,067 --> 00:54:07,331 the way they say that I'm in the bathhouses, 1244 00:54:07,331 --> 00:54:09,768 I'd be exposing myself to all kinds of random, 1245 00:54:09,768 --> 00:54:11,726 opportunistic infections. 1246 00:54:11,726 --> 00:54:14,251 I have -- I don't know m-much about it, 1247 00:54:14,251 --> 00:54:16,340 but I learned when I did go to the bathhouses 1248 00:54:16,340 --> 00:54:19,256 or have a lot of casual sex, I used to come down with things, 1249 00:54:19,256 --> 00:54:20,996 and they were hard to get rid of, 1250 00:54:20,996 --> 00:54:22,389 so I just stopped doing it." 1251 00:54:22,389 --> 00:54:24,652 He wasn't having casual sex. 1252 00:54:24,652 --> 00:54:25,871 Good evening. 1253 00:54:25,871 --> 00:54:27,655 I'm Michael Papas with Channel 10 1254 00:54:27,655 --> 00:54:29,091 "Gayblevision Vancouver." 1255 00:54:29,091 --> 00:54:31,746 There was a recent panel discussion in Vancouver. 1256 00:54:31,746 --> 00:54:33,705 on the panel were doctors and other men 1257 00:54:33,705 --> 00:54:36,055 associated with the AIDS problem. 1258 00:54:36,055 --> 00:54:37,709 An overflow crowd attended, 1259 00:54:37,709 --> 00:54:39,928 seeking information and other advice 1260 00:54:39,928 --> 00:54:42,931 as to how to deal with the AIDS problem in Vancouver. 1261 00:54:42,931 --> 00:54:44,281 On the panel that evening 1262 00:54:44,281 --> 00:54:46,935 was Dr. Brian Willoughby, who explained. 1263 00:54:46,935 --> 00:54:48,676 AIDS -- the -- the disease 1264 00:54:48,676 --> 00:54:50,461 we're here to talk about today, then -- 1265 00:54:50,461 --> 00:54:53,768 is a new phenomenon wherein people's ability 1266 00:54:53,768 --> 00:54:56,336 to fight infection is defective. 1267 00:54:56,336 --> 00:54:58,295 They had brought in a v-- uh, a person 1268 00:54:58,295 --> 00:55:01,210 from the Gay Men's Health Crisis in New York City. 1269 00:55:01,210 --> 00:55:05,519 What brings me here is our concern over an epidemic 1270 00:55:05,519 --> 00:55:07,869 that is killing gay men... 1271 00:55:07,869 --> 00:55:09,567 all over the world, 1272 00:55:09,567 --> 00:55:12,221 The doctors presented as much, I think, as they knew, 1273 00:55:12,221 --> 00:55:14,702 and I -- my recollection is, they tried to be 1274 00:55:14,702 --> 00:55:16,443 pretty scrupulous about what they didn't know. 1275 00:55:16,443 --> 00:55:18,750 So, one of the things you can do 1276 00:55:18,750 --> 00:55:22,101 to decrease your risk of contracting AIDS 1277 00:55:22,101 --> 00:55:25,322 is to decrease the number of different sexual partners. 1278 00:55:25,322 --> 00:55:27,585 There was almost disbelief in the room 1279 00:55:27,585 --> 00:55:29,674 that that was something that we needed to do, 1280 00:55:29,674 --> 00:55:32,329 because it was a New York thing or a San Francisco thing. 1281 00:55:32,329 --> 00:55:34,026 It wasn't a Vancouver thing. 1282 00:55:34,026 --> 00:55:35,941 The things we do know about it 1283 00:55:35,941 --> 00:55:39,901 in terms of who suffers from it... 1284 00:55:39,901 --> 00:55:43,557 certainly suggests that it is some kind of infection. 1285 00:55:43,557 --> 00:55:47,082 We, the panel, talked for maybe about an hour -- 1286 00:55:47,082 --> 00:55:49,476 you know, 10 or 15 minutes each -- 1287 00:55:49,476 --> 00:55:51,783 and then the floor was open for questions. 1288 00:55:58,659 --> 00:56:00,487 Popham: Can I -- Can I take this question? 1289 00:56:00,487 --> 00:56:02,315 [Indistinct chatter] 1290 00:56:03,838 --> 00:56:05,971 Screwing around didn't -- 1291 00:56:05,971 --> 00:56:07,538 doesn't give somebody AIDS. 1292 00:56:07,538 --> 00:56:09,191 I mean, it does, and it doesn't. 1293 00:56:09,191 --> 00:56:11,063 In other words, every contact you have, 1294 00:56:11,063 --> 00:56:14,196 you're increasing your opportunity of being infected 1295 00:56:14,196 --> 00:56:16,764 if, in fact, this is a contagious agent, 1296 00:56:16,764 --> 00:56:18,505 which has never been proven. 1297 00:56:18,505 --> 00:56:21,334 I believe there's some kind of, um, tests 1298 00:56:21,334 --> 00:56:23,162 being done on AIDS in Vancouver. 1299 00:56:23,162 --> 00:56:26,252 Attending that forum af-affected my life 1300 00:56:26,252 --> 00:56:28,167 very, very distinctly 1301 00:56:28,167 --> 00:56:31,605 in as much as the concept of safe sex was introduced. 1302 00:56:31,605 --> 00:56:33,912 And I started to practice safe sex, 1303 00:56:33,912 --> 00:56:35,653 which is maybe perhaps one of the reasons 1304 00:56:35,653 --> 00:56:37,263 that I'm still here today. 1305 00:56:37,263 --> 00:56:41,615 And probably the third or fourth person to get up 1306 00:56:41,615 --> 00:56:44,226 had a French Canadian accent. 1307 00:56:44,226 --> 00:56:47,969 A man went up to the mic. 1308 00:56:47,969 --> 00:56:49,623 I only saw him from the back. 1309 00:56:49,623 --> 00:56:50,929 And that was Gaétan. 1310 00:57:07,685 --> 00:57:09,643 It was a little difficult to understand exactly -- 1311 00:57:09,643 --> 00:57:11,819 some of the concepts he was trying to convey, 1312 00:57:11,819 --> 00:57:15,170 but what I appreciated about his interaction there 1313 00:57:15,170 --> 00:57:17,346 was that he was standing up for himself. 1314 00:57:29,750 --> 00:57:32,144 He s-sort of took the tone, 1315 00:57:32,144 --> 00:57:35,147 "How can you sit up there advising people 1316 00:57:35,147 --> 00:57:38,498 to have less sexual partners to avoid an infectious agent 1317 00:57:38,498 --> 00:57:40,065 when you don't even know that this is caused 1318 00:57:40,065 --> 00:57:41,675 by an infectious agent?" 1319 00:57:41,675 --> 00:57:45,592 Which, on face, is a valid question. 1320 00:57:48,726 --> 00:57:50,162 Okay, hey -- 1321 00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:56,168 And studies indicate that -- 1322 00:57:56,168 --> 00:57:58,866 And it's not everybody. 1323 00:57:58,866 --> 00:58:01,608 So there is a -- a chance of risk involved, 1324 00:58:01,608 --> 00:58:04,829 but the majority of the people are fairly promiscuous. 1325 00:58:04,829 --> 00:58:06,744 [Overlapping, indistinct argument] 1326 00:58:06,744 --> 00:58:09,660 It wasn't my place to say, "Get him off the mic," 1327 00:58:09,660 --> 00:58:12,489 but I could tell that we were -- that it was turning into 1328 00:58:12,489 --> 00:58:13,794 not a public information session, 1329 00:58:13,794 --> 00:58:17,494 but a --a kind of battle. 1330 00:58:17,494 --> 00:58:19,452 It is speculation, but -- 1331 00:58:19,452 --> 00:58:22,803 It got to the place where I thought... 1332 00:58:22,803 --> 00:58:24,152 [Inhales deeply] 1333 00:58:24,152 --> 00:58:25,980 "Thhhhhhhh... 1334 00:58:25,980 --> 00:58:27,895 This is not really good." 1335 00:58:27,895 --> 00:58:33,771 So I leaned over to Jeff Maines and said, "You know, 1336 00:58:33,771 --> 00:58:38,819 we need -- you need to get him off the microphone soon, 1337 00:58:38,819 --> 00:58:42,606 or he will destroy whatever good we may have done 1338 00:58:42,606 --> 00:58:45,696 over the last hour with these questions." 1339 00:58:59,100 --> 00:59:00,885 And I think what was interesting 1340 00:59:00,885 --> 00:59:03,931 about Gaétan's attitude towards that is that, in a way, 1341 00:59:03,931 --> 00:59:06,064 he did not want to change his sexual behavior 1342 00:59:06,064 --> 00:59:08,545 because there was no s-- clear proof. 1343 00:59:08,545 --> 00:59:11,635 And...so, again, 1344 00:59:11,635 --> 00:59:13,898 I think because he was a-- he was this target 1345 00:59:13,898 --> 00:59:16,640 for so many people, he was say-- he was saying to them, 1346 00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,207 "Prove to me that this is how you get it, 1347 00:59:19,207 --> 00:59:20,557 and then I'll change my behavior. 1348 00:59:20,557 --> 00:59:22,515 But until you can prove that, 1349 00:59:22,515 --> 00:59:24,212 I'm not gonna change anything." 1350 00:59:25,953 --> 00:59:28,782 "I remember, after one medical setback, 1351 00:59:28,782 --> 00:59:30,828 holding him in his apartment 1352 00:59:30,828 --> 00:59:34,875 and him telling me that he wasn't afraid of being dead. 1353 00:59:34,875 --> 00:59:37,443 He was just scared of dying. 1354 00:59:37,443 --> 00:59:39,445 He never expressed any great sense 1355 00:59:39,445 --> 00:59:41,186 that life had been unjust. 1356 00:59:41,186 --> 00:59:44,015 He just seemed determined to make the best 1357 00:59:44,015 --> 00:59:46,104 of whatever time he had left." 1358 00:59:46,104 --> 00:59:48,323 ♪♪ 1359 00:59:48,323 --> 00:59:51,718 Bisson: I thought it was very brave of him to still be working. 1360 00:59:51,718 --> 00:59:55,330 He'd taken some time off, and then he'd come back. 1361 00:59:55,330 --> 00:59:58,333 I think that was -- He came back for a last period, 1362 00:59:58,333 --> 01:00:00,945 and when he did come back, he actually looked great. 1363 01:00:00,945 --> 01:00:03,512 He was in a good mood, giggling like he always did. 1364 01:00:03,512 --> 01:00:05,079 "Dar- ling." 1365 01:00:05,079 --> 01:00:07,386 Gaétan was having trouble making it to flights, 1366 01:00:07,386 --> 01:00:09,518 and he was booking off last-minute 1367 01:00:09,518 --> 01:00:13,000 because he was starting to feel too ill to work. 1368 01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:15,916 More than anything, he wanted to keep flying. 1369 01:00:15,916 --> 01:00:18,223 He didn't want to be booked off sick. 1370 01:00:18,223 --> 01:00:20,312 He loved flying. That was his family. 1371 01:00:20,312 --> 01:00:21,661 That was his freedom. 1372 01:00:21,661 --> 01:00:24,751 We didn't know who would survive this 1373 01:00:24,751 --> 01:00:26,231 or who wouldn't survive this. 1374 01:00:26,231 --> 01:00:27,711 It was possible that, you know, 1375 01:00:27,711 --> 01:00:30,061 things were going to work for him. 1376 01:00:30,061 --> 01:00:33,542 And so, um, consequently, I just met him in that spirit. 1377 01:00:33,542 --> 01:00:36,545 And, you know, we both giggled, and as we were giggling, 1378 01:00:36,545 --> 01:00:39,636 I just, you know, uh, touched up his makeup, 1379 01:00:39,636 --> 01:00:41,725 because I could see that it hadn't been 1380 01:00:41,725 --> 01:00:44,553 properly applied, you know? 1381 01:00:44,553 --> 01:00:46,643 It was too cakey, as well. 1382 01:00:46,643 --> 01:00:48,427 I remember it being too cakey 1383 01:00:48,427 --> 01:00:50,298 more than not covering the lesion. 1384 01:00:50,298 --> 01:00:52,649 He'd covered the lesion, but, you know, 1385 01:00:52,649 --> 01:00:54,738 just a softer look. [Laughs] 1386 01:00:55,782 --> 01:00:58,350 That was the last time I saw him. 1387 01:00:58,350 --> 01:01:00,265 I didn't see him after that. 1388 01:01:00,265 --> 01:01:04,443 ♪♪ 1389 01:01:04,443 --> 01:01:07,968 [Church bell tolling slowly] 1390 01:01:07,968 --> 01:01:11,668 [Birds chirping] 1391 01:01:15,454 --> 01:01:17,064 ♪♪ 1392 01:01:17,064 --> 01:01:19,153 Key to the success of the cluster study 1393 01:01:19,153 --> 01:01:22,722 was the cooperation of Case 57, Gaétan Dugas, 1394 01:01:22,722 --> 01:01:24,419 whose personal sexual network 1395 01:01:24,419 --> 01:01:27,118 extended to a large number of men in many cities. 1396 01:01:27,118 --> 01:01:30,556 For me, the cluster study, um, 1397 01:01:30,556 --> 01:01:35,213 is a very interesting landmark scientifically 1398 01:01:35,213 --> 01:01:39,913 'cause it really helped, um, convince the world 1399 01:01:39,913 --> 01:01:42,437 that this was a sexually transmitted disease. 1400 01:01:42,437 --> 01:01:47,399 'Cause here, you have this cluster of patients 1401 01:01:47,399 --> 01:01:52,839 who are connected by lines which reflect sexual contact. 1402 01:01:52,839 --> 01:01:56,843 So, this shows 40 men 1403 01:01:56,843 --> 01:01:58,976 who were eventually linked 1404 01:01:58,976 --> 01:02:03,197 by sexual contact by their diagnosis. 1405 01:02:03,197 --> 01:02:06,244 And the person who connected cases 1406 01:02:06,244 --> 01:02:08,376 from both the west and the east 1407 01:02:08,376 --> 01:02:11,075 is shown in the middle of this diagram. 1408 01:02:11,075 --> 01:02:15,122 And he has links to eight different men -- 1409 01:02:15,122 --> 01:02:18,517 four on the West Coast, four on the East Coast. 1410 01:02:18,517 --> 01:02:20,606 This is the person that we called 1411 01:02:20,606 --> 01:02:23,348 the Out of California Case. 1412 01:02:23,348 --> 01:02:25,219 Later on... 1413 01:02:25,219 --> 01:02:28,875 we tried to show these cases by early onset, 1414 01:02:28,875 --> 01:02:31,748 and you'll see that this Out of California Case 1415 01:02:31,748 --> 01:02:34,533 was one of two, four, six 1416 01:02:34,533 --> 01:02:38,058 who had symptom onset before 1980. 1417 01:02:38,058 --> 01:02:40,060 So he was an early case, 1418 01:02:40,060 --> 01:02:43,107 but he wasn't necessarily the earliest case 1419 01:02:43,107 --> 01:02:47,067 in this cluster of 40 different men. 1420 01:02:47,067 --> 01:02:49,853 He originally was called Patient 57, 1421 01:02:49,853 --> 01:02:54,901 then "Patient O" for Out of California Case. 1422 01:02:54,901 --> 01:02:57,208 And that's the way it was shown and displayed 1423 01:02:57,208 --> 01:02:59,645 to my colleagues at CDC. 1424 01:02:59,645 --> 01:03:03,736 Few months later, everybody's talking about "Patient Zero," 1425 01:03:03,736 --> 01:03:06,913 and I don't know what they're talking about. 1426 01:03:06,913 --> 01:03:09,176 "Who are you talking about? Patient Zero?" 1427 01:03:09,176 --> 01:03:10,525 "Come on, Darrow. 1428 01:03:10,525 --> 01:03:12,266 You were the one who told us about him." 1429 01:03:12,266 --> 01:03:15,052 "I told you about Patient 57 1430 01:03:15,052 --> 01:03:17,097 or the Out of California Case -- 1431 01:03:17,097 --> 01:03:19,099 Patient O." 1432 01:03:19,099 --> 01:03:20,666 "Oh, that was an "O"? 1433 01:03:20,666 --> 01:03:22,755 We thought it was a zero." 1434 01:03:22,755 --> 01:03:25,889 ♪♪ 1435 01:03:25,889 --> 01:03:31,633 The "Zero" lost association, uh, with "Out of California" 1436 01:03:31,633 --> 01:03:35,289 and then began to communicate other meanings -- 1437 01:03:35,289 --> 01:03:36,943 particularly the association 1438 01:03:36,943 --> 01:03:39,946 with zero as absolute beginning -- 1439 01:03:39,946 --> 01:03:42,993 but one with profound consequences 1440 01:03:42,993 --> 01:03:46,170 for how the term was subsequently understood. 1441 01:03:48,259 --> 01:03:54,091 ♪♪ 1442 01:03:54,091 --> 01:03:59,966 ♪♪ 1443 01:03:59,966 --> 01:04:02,055 I think, right now, AIDS is nine parts politics 1444 01:04:02,055 --> 01:04:04,666 and one part science, so writing about the science 1445 01:04:04,666 --> 01:04:06,233 and the elegant genetics of the AIDS virus 1446 01:04:06,233 --> 01:04:07,756 misses the point. 1447 01:04:07,756 --> 01:04:09,454 The point right now is, we're not getting treatments 1448 01:04:09,454 --> 01:04:10,672 because of political problems, 1449 01:04:10,672 --> 01:04:12,152 and that's not being written about. 1450 01:04:12,152 --> 01:04:13,545 I think it's important to say 1451 01:04:13,545 --> 01:04:16,548 that until the epidemic started occurring 1452 01:04:16,548 --> 01:04:18,332 outside of the gay community, 1453 01:04:18,332 --> 01:04:19,638 that the mainstream media 1454 01:04:19,638 --> 01:04:21,205 largely wasn't paying attention to it. 1455 01:04:21,205 --> 01:04:23,033 You've got to remember that the problem here 1456 01:04:23,033 --> 01:04:25,426 is that we're moving slow in a situation 1457 01:04:25,426 --> 01:04:27,341 where the enemy is time. 1458 01:04:27,341 --> 01:04:29,604 Because the more time you give an epidemic, 1459 01:04:29,604 --> 01:04:31,128 the more it's gonna spread. 1460 01:04:31,128 --> 01:04:32,564 Reporter 3: In the early '80s, 1461 01:04:32,564 --> 01:04:34,696 Randy Shilts was the only newspaper reporter 1462 01:04:34,696 --> 01:04:37,612 writing regularly about the spreading AIDS epidemic. 1463 01:04:37,612 --> 01:04:41,094 And I think I felt more of a responsibility, uh, 1464 01:04:41,094 --> 01:04:43,227 and a determination to report on AIDS 1465 01:04:43,227 --> 01:04:44,489 'cause, to me, AIDS wasn't something 1466 01:04:44,489 --> 01:04:46,099 that just happened to other people. 1467 01:04:46,099 --> 01:04:47,884 It happened to -- to people I knew and I care about. 1468 01:04:47,884 --> 01:04:50,756 He felt that he was the only person 1469 01:04:50,756 --> 01:04:53,280 that could report on this, that could deal with this, 1470 01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:56,675 and -- and highlight it and show what it was becoming, 1471 01:04:56,675 --> 01:04:58,503 uh, 'cause none of the other media outlets 1472 01:04:58,503 --> 01:05:00,461 were reporting on it. 1473 01:05:00,461 --> 01:05:01,941 Denneny: I was very proud of him. 1474 01:05:01,941 --> 01:05:05,249 He forced the "Chronicle" to let him cover it 1475 01:05:05,249 --> 01:05:06,685 when virtually -- 1476 01:05:06,685 --> 01:05:08,861 eh, there was nobody else covering it 1477 01:05:08,861 --> 01:05:11,559 basically on a daily, weekly basis. 1478 01:05:11,559 --> 01:05:13,083 When you go back to the history, 1479 01:05:13,083 --> 01:05:15,172 the alpha and the omega of the AIDS epidemic 1480 01:05:15,172 --> 01:05:17,000 is the Rock Hudson diagnosis. 1481 01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:19,611 That wakens the public and really wakens the media. 1482 01:05:19,611 --> 01:05:21,221 The media starts covering it. 1483 01:05:21,221 --> 01:05:23,006 I think it was also perceived at the time 1484 01:05:23,006 --> 01:05:24,572 that Rock Hudson was heterosexual, 1485 01:05:24,572 --> 01:05:26,096 which he wasn't. 1486 01:05:26,096 --> 01:05:27,706 And people said, "Well, if Rock Hudson 1487 01:05:27,706 --> 01:05:30,448 could get it, I could get it." 1488 01:05:30,448 --> 01:05:32,972 Shilts: What happens then is a story of -- of national failure, 1489 01:05:32,972 --> 01:05:35,061 and it gets to the central thesis of my book, 1490 01:05:35,061 --> 01:05:36,802 which is that AIDS didn't just happen. 1491 01:05:36,802 --> 01:05:38,630 It was allowedto happen. 1492 01:05:38,630 --> 01:05:40,414 "And the Band Played On" is the natural outgrowth, really, 1493 01:05:40,414 --> 01:05:42,112 of the articles that Randy's writing 1494 01:05:42,112 --> 01:05:43,417 at the "San Francisco Chronicle." 1495 01:05:43,417 --> 01:05:45,637 I think he could see that this was a issue 1496 01:05:45,637 --> 01:05:48,335 bigger than a -- what a daily newspaper could cover. 1497 01:05:48,335 --> 01:05:50,772 Randy Shilts really went out of his way 1498 01:05:50,772 --> 01:05:54,559 to, um, carefully document in detail -- 1499 01:05:54,559 --> 01:05:56,213 in excruciating detail -- 1500 01:05:56,213 --> 01:06:00,695 the moral, ethical, and criminal negligence 1501 01:06:00,695 --> 01:06:02,349 of the Reagan Administration. 1502 01:06:02,349 --> 01:06:05,570 Randy Shilts came to CDC as a newspaper reporter 1503 01:06:05,570 --> 01:06:07,572 for the "San Francisco Chronicle" 1504 01:06:07,572 --> 01:06:09,791 early in the epidemic and interviewed a number of us -- 1505 01:06:09,791 --> 01:06:11,315 Jim, me, and others. 1506 01:06:11,315 --> 01:06:14,100 He attended virtually every AIDS meeting 1507 01:06:14,100 --> 01:06:15,319 in the United States. 1508 01:06:15,319 --> 01:06:16,929 He was always there 1509 01:06:16,929 --> 01:06:18,365 and always interviewing people. 1510 01:06:18,365 --> 01:06:19,888 I mean, I was probably interviewed by him 1511 01:06:19,888 --> 01:06:21,673 dozens of times. 1512 01:06:21,673 --> 01:06:25,416 He asked me a lot of questions about the cluster study 1513 01:06:25,416 --> 01:06:28,288 and Patient Zero and so forth. 1514 01:06:28,288 --> 01:06:31,683 Eh, Randy Shilts did what any good reporter would do 1515 01:06:31,683 --> 01:06:33,990 in tracking down Patient Zero. 1516 01:06:33,990 --> 01:06:37,384 Well, here's a story of this guy that's coming to San Francisco 1517 01:06:37,384 --> 01:06:39,212 and being identified. 1518 01:06:39,212 --> 01:06:41,432 The -- the hotline's lighting up. 1519 01:06:41,432 --> 01:06:43,695 People are talking about him all over town. 1520 01:06:43,695 --> 01:06:46,828 What journalists wouldn't try to find out who that was? 1521 01:06:46,828 --> 01:06:49,222 I've talked to Marcus Conant about this, 1522 01:06:49,222 --> 01:06:53,270 and he confirms that Randy asked him several times, 1523 01:06:53,270 --> 01:06:55,272 was narrowing things down slowly, 1524 01:06:55,272 --> 01:06:56,882 and then called him back and said, 1525 01:06:56,882 --> 01:06:59,058 "I don't need your help. I've figured out who it is." 1526 01:06:59,058 --> 01:07:02,192 Shilts' interview notes are headed with a boxed inscription. 1527 01:07:02,192 --> 01:07:04,629 "Gaétan is Patient Zero." 1528 01:07:04,629 --> 01:07:09,329 I remember the moment that Randy became aware of Gaétan 1529 01:07:09,329 --> 01:07:12,898 and how all the s-- 1530 01:07:12,898 --> 01:07:15,422 charts [Laughs] c-came back to him. 1531 01:07:15,422 --> 01:07:17,903 The researchers from the CDC 1532 01:07:17,903 --> 01:07:21,254 were able to track down Gaétan, and through his cooperation -- 1533 01:07:21,254 --> 01:07:24,605 and he was very cooperative with the CDC researchers -- 1534 01:07:24,605 --> 01:07:27,391 were able to establish sexual links 1535 01:07:27,391 --> 01:07:30,133 between 40 of the first 248 gay men 1536 01:07:30,133 --> 01:07:32,135 who were diagnosed with AIDS in the United States. 1537 01:07:32,135 --> 01:07:35,486 That's when I realized, not only was he going to use my name 1538 01:07:35,486 --> 01:07:39,620 and the name -- names of other government employees, 1539 01:07:39,620 --> 01:07:42,145 but he was also going to... 1540 01:07:42,145 --> 01:07:45,322 name patients. 1541 01:07:45,322 --> 01:07:47,280 And I told him, "No, don't do this. 1542 01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:50,196 This is not a good idea. 1543 01:07:50,196 --> 01:07:52,938 You shouldn't name Patient Zero." 1544 01:07:52,938 --> 01:07:56,159 Randy responded, "I've got to do it. 1545 01:07:57,377 --> 01:08:00,206 The government's not gonna do anything about this problem 1546 01:08:00,206 --> 01:08:02,165 unless I name names." 1547 01:08:02,165 --> 01:08:04,167 By using everybody's name in this book -- 1548 01:08:04,167 --> 01:08:05,646 and I use everybody's name; 1549 01:08:05,646 --> 01:08:07,257 he's not singled out at all -- 1550 01:08:07,257 --> 01:08:09,085 I think I make it -- put the disease 1551 01:08:09,085 --> 01:08:11,348 on much more of a human scale. 1552 01:08:11,348 --> 01:08:14,438 The publicist working on the book -- 1553 01:08:14,438 --> 01:08:17,267 a young woman named Diane -- came up to my office 1554 01:08:17,267 --> 01:08:19,921 on Friday afternoon in tears, saying, 1555 01:08:19,921 --> 01:08:21,575 "We're gonna" -- 1556 01:08:21,575 --> 01:08:24,012 You know, "We're not gonna get any publicity. 1557 01:08:24,012 --> 01:08:27,103 Everybody thinks it's been covered. 1558 01:08:27,103 --> 01:08:28,974 They don't want to cover it. 1559 01:08:28,974 --> 01:08:30,976 They're seeing it mainly as an attack 1560 01:08:30,976 --> 01:08:33,152 on the Reagan Administration 1561 01:08:33,152 --> 01:08:36,547 and on the medical establishment -- the CDC." 1562 01:08:36,547 --> 01:08:37,896 [Pops lips] I panicked. 1563 01:08:37,896 --> 01:08:40,028 I called up an ex-boyfriend of mine 1564 01:08:40,028 --> 01:08:42,205 who happened to be a publicist, 1565 01:08:42,205 --> 01:08:44,555 and I said, "John, I know you're out of work, 1566 01:08:44,555 --> 01:08:46,122 so you have time on your hands. 1567 01:08:46,122 --> 01:08:48,298 I'm in big trouble. 1568 01:08:48,298 --> 01:08:51,823 I need you to spend the weekend reading this manuscript." 1569 01:08:51,823 --> 01:08:53,520 And he suggested the following, 1570 01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:56,915 which I thought was extraordinarily clever. 1571 01:08:56,915 --> 01:09:00,571 "The Band Played On," the story of Patient Zero 1572 01:09:00,571 --> 01:09:06,316 comes up on 11 pages out of a 620-page book. 1573 01:09:06,316 --> 01:09:09,232 He's only mentioned in 11 pages. 1574 01:09:09,232 --> 01:09:12,539 And he said, "You pull this material out, 1575 01:09:12,539 --> 01:09:14,019 you gathered it together, 1576 01:09:14,019 --> 01:09:17,196 and you present it to the "New York Post," 1577 01:09:17,196 --> 01:09:20,373 a miserably homophobic newspaper. 1578 01:09:20,373 --> 01:09:22,245 This story has everything they want. 1579 01:09:22,245 --> 01:09:25,030 It has beauty. It has death. 1580 01:09:25,030 --> 01:09:27,641 You know, he's an airline steward, 1581 01:09:27,641 --> 01:09:30,427 and best of all, he's a foreigner. 1582 01:09:30,427 --> 01:09:32,820 He said, "They're gonna eat it up." 1583 01:09:32,820 --> 01:09:34,518 Randy hated the idea. 1584 01:09:34,518 --> 01:09:37,869 I called him Monday night after talking with my friend, 1585 01:09:37,869 --> 01:09:39,523 and he was appalled. 1586 01:09:39,523 --> 01:09:41,742 And he said, you know, "This is yellow journalism." 1587 01:09:41,742 --> 01:09:43,179 I said, Yeah." 1588 01:09:43,179 --> 01:09:44,832 But I said, "If we don't do this, 1589 01:09:44,832 --> 01:09:48,488 you're gonna sell 4,000 or 5,000 copies of this book 1590 01:09:48,488 --> 01:09:50,838 basically to gay people. 1591 01:09:50,838 --> 01:09:54,015 It's gonna have no impact, you know, on the media. 1592 01:09:54,015 --> 01:09:55,539 It's gonna have no impact 1593 01:09:55,539 --> 01:09:58,672 on the national, uh, medical establishment, 1594 01:09:58,672 --> 01:10:00,152 and it's not gonna do 1595 01:10:00,152 --> 01:10:03,808 what the function of this book is to do, 1596 01:10:03,808 --> 01:10:06,941 which is to put this on the national agenda." 1597 01:10:06,941 --> 01:10:09,248 And he finally agreed. 1598 01:10:09,248 --> 01:10:12,599 W-- Very, very reluctantly. 1599 01:10:12,599 --> 01:10:16,429 And we presented to the "Post," and they fell for it. 1600 01:10:16,429 --> 01:10:19,127 It was like cultural judo 1601 01:10:19,127 --> 01:10:22,783 where you were using the strength of your enemy 1602 01:10:22,783 --> 01:10:24,350 to get your own... 1603 01:10:26,091 --> 01:10:27,658 ...end. 1604 01:10:27,658 --> 01:10:30,051 And, essentially, that's what we did. 1605 01:10:30,051 --> 01:10:33,751 I mean, he pred-- He told me exactly the headline. 1606 01:10:33,751 --> 01:10:36,928 "The Man Who Gave Us AIDS." 1607 01:10:36,928 --> 01:10:38,625 Wadden: When I received this phone call, 1608 01:10:38,625 --> 01:10:40,714 I just happened to pick up the phone in the newsroom. 1609 01:10:40,714 --> 01:10:43,935 And, uh, this young woman from "60 Minutes," uh, 1610 01:10:43,935 --> 01:10:45,632 named Barbara Drury -- 1611 01:10:45,632 --> 01:10:48,374 um, Researcher Producer, I think was her role -- 1612 01:10:48,374 --> 01:10:51,551 um, explained that, uh, they were doing a documentary 1613 01:10:51,551 --> 01:10:53,118 and that one of the main characters in it 1614 01:10:53,118 --> 01:10:55,033 was from Quebec City. 1615 01:10:55,033 --> 01:10:58,036 And she needed someone to drive her to Quebec City from Montreal 1616 01:10:58,036 --> 01:10:59,733 and to translate with the family. 1617 01:10:59,733 --> 01:11:02,127 And on the way, she had a copy of Randy Shilts' book, 1618 01:11:02,127 --> 01:11:03,694 "And the Band Played On." 1619 01:11:03,694 --> 01:11:06,740 And that's when the true horror of the story 1620 01:11:06,740 --> 01:11:09,743 was revealed to me -- that, uh -- that they were 1621 01:11:09,743 --> 01:11:12,311 preparing a documentary based on this book, 1622 01:11:12,311 --> 01:11:13,965 and this book had evidence 1623 01:11:13,965 --> 01:11:16,663 that the man who brought AIDS to North America -- 1624 01:11:16,663 --> 01:11:19,710 the gay man who done that -- was Gaétan Dugas, 1625 01:11:19,710 --> 01:11:22,016 and that he was from a suburb of Quebec City. 1626 01:11:22,016 --> 01:11:24,236 When I walked in the door of the house, 1627 01:11:24,236 --> 01:11:27,457 it was very clear to me early on that this was a family 1628 01:11:27,457 --> 01:11:29,589 who really loved this young man 1629 01:11:29,589 --> 01:11:33,376 and, um, who were very sorrowful about his death. 1630 01:11:33,376 --> 01:11:34,899 And they were asking me, "What" -- 1631 01:11:34,899 --> 01:11:36,248 You know, "What do you think we should do?" 1632 01:11:36,248 --> 01:11:37,771 I remember them asking me that. 1633 01:11:37,771 --> 01:11:40,470 And -- And I said, "Well, you do one interview, 1634 01:11:40,470 --> 01:11:44,169 you're going to have everyone lined up here at your door." 1635 01:11:44,169 --> 01:11:46,127 They were horrified when they learned 1636 01:11:46,127 --> 01:11:48,304 that this book that was coming out 1637 01:11:48,304 --> 01:11:51,394 was going to name Gaétan as the Patient Zero. 1638 01:11:51,394 --> 01:11:59,010 ♪♪ 1639 01:11:59,010 --> 01:12:02,013 Kai Babineaux, who interviewed me -- 1640 01:12:02,013 --> 01:12:05,625 I mean, he asked me, had I ever thought of the impact 1641 01:12:05,625 --> 01:12:09,150 it would have on Gaétan's family and his friends? 1642 01:12:09,150 --> 01:12:12,328 And I had to honestly say, "No, I hadn't." 1643 01:12:12,328 --> 01:12:14,547 Bisson: I th-- I can only say, I think they must have had 1644 01:12:14,547 --> 01:12:16,419 a really difficult time 1645 01:12:16,419 --> 01:12:19,160 going through the bad press after, 1646 01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:21,075 which I think is, you know, shocking. 1647 01:12:21,075 --> 01:12:23,687 It -- I mean, I find that to be a crime, nearly. 1648 01:12:23,687 --> 01:12:27,168 And his family must have suffered after his demise 1649 01:12:27,168 --> 01:12:29,214 for a long period of time. 1650 01:12:29,214 --> 01:12:31,782 I remember his sister, who was a dental hygienist, 1651 01:12:31,782 --> 01:12:35,699 saying, um, you know, "So, that's the reward he gets 1652 01:12:35,699 --> 01:12:37,657 for cooperating with the researchers?" 1653 01:12:37,657 --> 01:12:47,624 ♪♪ 1654 01:12:47,624 --> 01:12:57,634 ♪♪ 1655 01:12:57,634 --> 01:13:00,593 Randy Shilts was focused on showing 1656 01:13:00,593 --> 01:13:03,335 that the institutions that had been created 1657 01:13:03,335 --> 01:13:08,645 to respond to this very type of -- of tragedy 1658 01:13:08,645 --> 01:13:11,125 failed to respond because of the prejudice 1659 01:13:11,125 --> 01:13:14,390 against the people who were suffering from the disease, 1660 01:13:14,390 --> 01:13:17,523 and that was the motivation behind his book. 1661 01:13:17,523 --> 01:13:19,177 By the time President Reagan 1662 01:13:19,177 --> 01:13:21,179 delivered his first address on AIDS 1663 01:13:21,179 --> 01:13:24,138 in May 31st of this year at that AIDS fundraiser here 1664 01:13:24,138 --> 01:13:28,229 in -- in Georgetown, 36,000 Americans were dead 1665 01:13:28,229 --> 01:13:29,796 or dying of this disease. 1666 01:13:29,796 --> 01:13:31,668 What a sad statement that is 1667 01:13:31,668 --> 01:13:34,105 that that many people could be dead or dying 1668 01:13:34,105 --> 01:13:36,412 before the President will even give a speech on the subject. 1669 01:13:36,412 --> 01:13:38,718 "The Time" -- "The New York Times," 1670 01:13:38,718 --> 01:13:41,721 within the next -- something like 15 days 1671 01:13:41,721 --> 01:13:44,202 had 11 stories on the book. 1672 01:13:44,202 --> 01:13:46,770 11 articles in 2 weeks 1673 01:13:46,770 --> 01:13:50,164 on a book that they had refused to review. 1674 01:13:50,164 --> 01:13:53,211 "The Band Played On" essentially broke the silence. 1675 01:13:53,211 --> 01:13:55,605 That was the most important thing the book did. 1676 01:13:55,605 --> 01:13:58,651 It -- It basically cracked that wall of silence. 1677 01:13:58,651 --> 01:14:00,958 But, at the same time, Shilts engages 1678 01:14:00,958 --> 01:14:02,786 in his own demonizing, 1679 01:14:02,786 --> 01:14:05,528 and I find particularly unfortunate 1680 01:14:05,528 --> 01:14:10,533 his demonizing of the Canadian flight attendant, Gaétan Dugas, 1681 01:14:10,533 --> 01:14:15,842 whom he transforms in the course of his book into Patient Zero. 1682 01:14:15,842 --> 01:14:20,107 And really, that idea of Patient Zero as a figure -- 1683 01:14:20,107 --> 01:14:21,935 as a popular term -- 1684 01:14:21,935 --> 01:14:24,460 comes from "And the Band Played On." 1685 01:14:24,460 --> 01:14:28,768 It's funny how much the Patient Zero narrative 1686 01:14:28,768 --> 01:14:31,989 almost jumps out from the rest of the book. 1687 01:14:31,989 --> 01:14:33,817 It does seem tacked on. 1688 01:14:33,817 --> 01:14:36,254 It does s-- It does seem very opportunistic 1689 01:14:36,254 --> 01:14:38,125 and very sensationalistic. 1690 01:14:38,125 --> 01:14:41,520 My take on Shilts' construction of Gaétan Dugas in the book 1691 01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:43,696 is that Shilts presents him to be someone 1692 01:14:43,696 --> 01:14:47,004 who is completely uncaring 1693 01:14:47,004 --> 01:14:50,007 about how his behavior might affect other people. 1694 01:14:50,007 --> 01:14:53,706 It's an act of projection, I think, on the author's part. 1695 01:14:53,706 --> 01:14:56,492 He takes his own anger and rage and bitterness, 1696 01:14:56,492 --> 01:14:58,798 and he makes this character called Patient Zero. 1697 01:14:58,798 --> 01:15:01,061 What Randy was doing was saying, 1698 01:15:01,061 --> 01:15:05,283 "Yes, we are, you know, fucking ourselves crazy, 1699 01:15:05,283 --> 01:15:09,330 and we are mindless, you know, he-hedonistically" -- 1700 01:15:09,330 --> 01:15:12,725 You know, some of that is -- a little bit of it is credible, 1701 01:15:12,725 --> 01:15:15,032 and some of it is internalized homophobia. 1702 01:15:15,032 --> 01:15:18,209 A real degree of it is internalized homophobia. 1703 01:15:18,209 --> 01:15:22,648 There isn't any gay person who doesn't reveal this. 1704 01:15:22,648 --> 01:15:25,042 And, uh -- And Randy certainly had his -- 1705 01:15:25,042 --> 01:15:26,826 his share of all this. 1706 01:15:26,826 --> 01:15:28,480 So, the idea that gay men were going out 1707 01:15:28,480 --> 01:15:31,265 and intentionally giving the disease, it wasn't that. 1708 01:15:31,265 --> 01:15:32,963 It was that sex was one of the few joys 1709 01:15:32,963 --> 01:15:34,312 that people had in life. 1710 01:15:34,312 --> 01:15:36,532 And so, the idea -- 1711 01:15:36,532 --> 01:15:40,013 and it was very widespread -- 1712 01:15:40,013 --> 01:15:41,885 that, "Whatever's causing this, 1713 01:15:41,885 --> 01:15:46,019 I already have, and you probably have it, too" -- 1714 01:15:46,019 --> 01:15:48,631 this is the main reason why a lot of gay men 1715 01:15:48,631 --> 01:15:50,850 didn't adopt and embrace safe sex practices 1716 01:15:50,850 --> 01:15:52,330 when it came out 1717 01:15:52,330 --> 01:15:55,289 because everyone believed it was already too late. 1718 01:15:55,289 --> 01:15:58,902 It wasn't this dark, evil portrait 1719 01:15:58,902 --> 01:16:00,904 that -- that Randy came up with. 1720 01:16:00,904 --> 01:16:04,081 Murray: There was one part in the book 1721 01:16:04,081 --> 01:16:09,390 where he was at a steam bath with someone... 1722 01:16:09,390 --> 01:16:12,568 and at the end of their sexual act, he said, 1723 01:16:12,568 --> 01:16:14,352 "I've got gay cancer, 1724 01:16:14,352 --> 01:16:16,659 and now you're going to get it, too." 1725 01:16:16,659 --> 01:16:19,096 And...that struck me 1726 01:16:19,096 --> 01:16:21,838 as very unlike the Gaétan that I knew. 1727 01:16:21,838 --> 01:16:23,274 [Sighs] 1728 01:16:23,274 --> 01:16:26,146 ♪♪ 1729 01:16:26,146 --> 01:16:30,281 That Gaétan really knew he was, uh... 1730 01:16:30,281 --> 01:16:32,457 spreading something -- 1731 01:16:32,457 --> 01:16:33,806 Uh... 1732 01:16:33,806 --> 01:16:35,852 ♪♪ 1733 01:16:35,852 --> 01:16:38,202 I can tell you one thing. 1734 01:16:38,202 --> 01:16:41,640 If Gaétan knew... 1735 01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:43,207 he -- he, uh -- 1736 01:16:43,207 --> 01:16:45,949 that he was killing somebody 1737 01:16:45,949 --> 01:16:50,606 by having sex with them, he wouldn't -- 1738 01:16:50,606 --> 01:16:53,173 eh, h-he -- he would not have done it. 1739 01:16:53,173 --> 01:16:57,743 Uh, h-he would have stopped having sex with whoever. 1740 01:16:57,743 --> 01:17:01,181 If he -- if he knew exactly? 1741 01:17:01,181 --> 01:17:02,748 No. 1742 01:17:02,748 --> 01:17:05,533 That's -- that's not the person that I know. 1743 01:17:05,533 --> 01:17:08,014 Gaétan was not like that. 1744 01:17:08,014 --> 01:17:12,105 He was charming and everything, but very, very caring. 1745 01:17:12,105 --> 01:17:13,629 No way. 1746 01:17:13,629 --> 01:17:17,720 There's no way he would have continued this. 1747 01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:20,157 I -- I didn't blame Gaétan. 1748 01:17:20,157 --> 01:17:22,812 Y-You know, had I become HIV-positive, I -- 1749 01:17:22,812 --> 01:17:24,988 I never went through a period 1750 01:17:24,988 --> 01:17:27,425 where I blamed Gaétan, uh, for that, 1751 01:17:27,425 --> 01:17:29,993 because at that time, again, 1752 01:17:29,993 --> 01:17:31,690 I don't think people really understood, 1753 01:17:31,690 --> 01:17:33,736 and at the time, as well, it wasn't -- 1754 01:17:33,736 --> 01:17:35,476 Everything wasn't lumped into one thing. 1755 01:17:35,476 --> 01:17:37,348 It was -- You had Kaposi's sarcoma, 1756 01:17:37,348 --> 01:17:38,741 and they were trying to figure out why some people had that. 1757 01:17:38,741 --> 01:17:40,568 And you had PCP, and some people were -- 1758 01:17:40,568 --> 01:17:42,570 and they were trying to figure out why some people had that. 1759 01:17:42,570 --> 01:17:44,094 They hadn't connected all the dots yet -- 1760 01:17:44,094 --> 01:17:45,878 that it was all one thing. 1761 01:17:45,878 --> 01:17:48,098 Um, so I didn't -- I don't think I ever went through a period 1762 01:17:48,098 --> 01:17:49,708 where I blamed him. 1763 01:17:49,708 --> 01:17:56,062 ♪♪ 1764 01:17:56,062 --> 01:17:57,890 Watts: So, the original cluster study -- 1765 01:17:57,890 --> 01:18:00,284 and there's a very famous graphic 1766 01:18:00,284 --> 01:18:03,156 showing everything pointing to this one individual -- 1767 01:18:03,156 --> 01:18:06,116 really, I think, spoke to the general public 1768 01:18:06,116 --> 01:18:09,902 that there was a -- a Typhoid Mary-type syndrome, 1769 01:18:09,902 --> 01:18:11,991 a Patient Zero syndrome going on. 1770 01:18:11,991 --> 01:18:13,993 So, here, the key issue was -- 1771 01:18:13,993 --> 01:18:15,821 where it's sometimes called "latency period" 1772 01:18:15,821 --> 01:18:17,605 or "incubation period." 1773 01:18:17,605 --> 01:18:20,608 It's the time from infection to when you get sick, right? 1774 01:18:20,608 --> 01:18:22,698 So, if you read the cluster study, 1775 01:18:22,698 --> 01:18:25,309 the assumption there is the time from infection 1776 01:18:25,309 --> 01:18:27,659 to when you get sick is of the order of two years, 1777 01:18:27,659 --> 01:18:29,705 So, okay. Two years. That's some time. 1778 01:18:29,705 --> 01:18:33,056 So they constructed this diagram 1779 01:18:33,056 --> 01:18:35,841 in which Gaétan is linked 1780 01:18:35,841 --> 01:18:39,323 to all these people by having had sex with them, 1781 01:18:39,323 --> 01:18:42,152 wi-within approximately two years of their diagnosis. 1782 01:18:42,152 --> 01:18:45,068 Okay. So, Okay. Two years. Good. 1783 01:18:45,068 --> 01:18:46,634 'Cause no one thought at the time 1784 01:18:46,634 --> 01:18:49,072 that this was a virus that takes, on average, 1785 01:18:49,072 --> 01:18:51,901 10 years to -- to produce symptoms. 1786 01:18:51,901 --> 01:18:54,686 When you see somebody sick with AIDS, 1787 01:18:54,686 --> 01:18:56,079 what you're seeing is the result 1788 01:18:56,079 --> 01:18:57,950 of something that happened 10 years before. 1789 01:18:57,950 --> 01:19:00,648 And when you see somebody in the mid-'80s, where we now were, 1790 01:19:00,648 --> 01:19:02,738 it's the result of getting infected in the mid-'70s. 1791 01:19:02,738 --> 01:19:04,217 And that's true. That's what happened. 1792 01:19:04,217 --> 01:19:07,003 So this was like a slow-motion epidemic 1793 01:19:07,003 --> 01:19:08,656 that had taken place in the past, 1794 01:19:08,656 --> 01:19:11,268 and what we were seeing was the result of that. 1795 01:19:11,268 --> 01:19:13,792 So, this cluster is nonsense, 1796 01:19:13,792 --> 01:19:15,185 because if A infects B, 1797 01:19:15,185 --> 01:19:17,491 B is not gonna get sick for ten years. 1798 01:19:17,491 --> 01:19:19,929 And if B gets sick within two years of A, 1799 01:19:19,929 --> 01:19:22,583 then you know for sure that A didn't infect him. 1800 01:19:22,583 --> 01:19:25,151 It's the opposite of what it appears to say. 1801 01:19:25,151 --> 01:19:28,241 Patient Zero, Gaétan Dugas, did not infect those people. 1802 01:19:28,241 --> 01:19:30,287 That's not true. That's false. 1803 01:19:30,287 --> 01:19:34,900 Dugas is at the center of a cluster of people 1804 01:19:34,900 --> 01:19:36,510 who are impacted by HIV. 1805 01:19:36,510 --> 01:19:38,338 That part of it is true. 1806 01:19:38,338 --> 01:19:42,299 But if you move the dial over left or right 5° or 10°, 1807 01:19:42,299 --> 01:19:44,040 you're going to find someone else 1808 01:19:44,040 --> 01:19:45,781 who's at the center of a cluster 1809 01:19:45,781 --> 01:19:48,958 that just starts over again because of their contacts. 1810 01:19:48,958 --> 01:19:51,743 If every individual had been able 1811 01:19:51,743 --> 01:19:54,093 to recall the information 1812 01:19:54,093 --> 01:19:57,314 to the same quality that Gaétan had 1813 01:19:57,314 --> 01:19:58,837 and had been willing to share it, 1814 01:19:58,837 --> 01:20:01,579 this image would look completely different. 1815 01:20:01,579 --> 01:20:03,537 ♪♪ 1816 01:20:03,537 --> 01:20:06,627 There just so much, uh... 1817 01:20:06,627 --> 01:20:11,676 blaming of communities, uh, at that point -- 1818 01:20:11,676 --> 01:20:13,852 the gay community, of -- of -- of course -- 1819 01:20:13,852 --> 01:20:17,247 or gay male, uh, community -- 1820 01:20:17,247 --> 01:20:20,250 trying to find an other. 1821 01:20:20,250 --> 01:20:22,774 Otherness bringing it here from otherwhere, you know? 1822 01:20:22,774 --> 01:20:24,863 And he was Mr. Otherwhere, you know? 1823 01:20:24,863 --> 01:20:26,082 They had him picked for that role, 1824 01:20:26,082 --> 01:20:27,518 and everybody leaps on it. 1825 01:20:27,518 --> 01:20:29,520 As soon as you put that out in the air, 1826 01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:31,739 everybody wants to believe something like that. 1827 01:20:31,739 --> 01:20:33,741 "Bad person brought it here from bad country. 1828 01:20:33,741 --> 01:20:34,699 You."Man: [Laughs] 1829 01:20:34,699 --> 01:20:36,005 And, uh... [Chuckles] 1830 01:20:36,005 --> 01:20:37,658 That's where religion comes from, 1831 01:20:37,658 --> 01:20:41,619 is a need for an explanation that doesn't exist, um, 1832 01:20:41,619 --> 01:20:43,664 so we can blame God, you know? [Laughs] 1833 01:20:43,664 --> 01:20:45,318 Or the devil. 1834 01:20:45,318 --> 01:20:48,408 Um, or in this case, um, some poor flight attendant. 1835 01:20:48,408 --> 01:20:51,934 But the myth -- the Gaétan myth separate from the science. 1836 01:20:51,934 --> 01:20:53,805 It's a whole separate thing, you know. 1837 01:20:53,805 --> 01:20:56,242 That's not what it's about. It's not about science. 1838 01:20:56,242 --> 01:20:59,028 It's about projecting ideas of sickness and disease 1839 01:20:59,028 --> 01:21:01,682 and evil onto somebody, you know? 1840 01:21:01,682 --> 01:21:03,162 I-It's scapegoating. It's -- He's -- 1841 01:21:03,162 --> 01:21:05,773 He's a classic scapegoat, you know? 1842 01:21:05,773 --> 01:21:07,471 I mean, it's weird, because nobody knows 1843 01:21:07,471 --> 01:21:09,255 what he's being scapegoated for. 1844 01:21:09,255 --> 01:21:12,084 Originally, he was the Out of California Case, you know? 1845 01:21:12,084 --> 01:21:13,912 And then he's like "the first man with AIDS" 1846 01:21:13,912 --> 01:21:15,131 or the man who brought it to America, or -- 1847 01:21:15,131 --> 01:21:16,523 Who knows what he is. 1848 01:21:16,523 --> 01:21:18,743 He's like the mysterious, evil character. 1849 01:21:18,743 --> 01:21:21,006 He's the scapegoat. Every society needs a scapegoat. 1850 01:21:21,006 --> 01:21:22,834 It's -- It's universal, right? 1851 01:21:22,834 --> 01:21:24,357 It's a magical way of getting rid of evil. 1852 01:21:24,357 --> 01:21:25,663 You put it on the scapegoat. 1853 01:21:25,663 --> 01:21:28,144 Then you drive it out, and it dies. 1854 01:21:28,144 --> 01:21:30,102 Takes the evil with it. 1855 01:21:30,102 --> 01:21:31,625 I think the -- the application 1856 01:21:31,625 --> 01:21:36,630 of morality to a -- a disease is a mistake 1857 01:21:36,630 --> 01:21:40,112 because it interferes with the ability to deal with it. 1858 01:21:40,112 --> 01:21:42,506 Um, it's a scientific phenomenon. 1859 01:21:42,506 --> 01:21:44,421 It's a h-- It's a human tragedy 1860 01:21:44,421 --> 01:21:47,337 no matter where it is and who gets it. 1861 01:21:47,337 --> 01:21:50,122 First of all, the people who were religious -- 1862 01:21:50,122 --> 01:21:51,645 you know, Christian fundamentalists, 1863 01:21:51,645 --> 01:21:53,386 whatever they were called then -- 1864 01:21:53,386 --> 01:21:55,998 um, then they believe this was a punishment from God. 1865 01:21:55,998 --> 01:21:57,782 They believe that. 1866 01:21:57,782 --> 01:21:59,262 They believe these things. 1867 01:21:59,262 --> 01:22:01,699 These things that they say, they believe. 1868 01:22:01,699 --> 01:22:03,483 I mean, this may be, you know, a function 1869 01:22:03,483 --> 01:22:05,529 of my own, uh, personality, 1870 01:22:05,529 --> 01:22:08,227 which is, I just don't care what other people do. 1871 01:22:08,227 --> 01:22:09,794 I don't care. 1872 01:22:09,794 --> 01:22:11,927 You believe in all this crazy religious stuff. 1873 01:22:11,927 --> 01:22:14,103 Go ahead, but don't impose it on me. 1874 01:22:14,103 --> 01:22:15,974 Anal sex in particular 1875 01:22:15,974 --> 01:22:18,455 had been, for so long, demonized. 1876 01:22:18,455 --> 01:22:20,631 Sodomy. We have -- We have laws 1877 01:22:20,631 --> 01:22:23,939 which specifically demonize anal sex. 1878 01:22:23,939 --> 01:22:28,204 And then, for us to have, at great cost, 1879 01:22:28,204 --> 01:22:30,162 thrown off the shackles of that, 1880 01:22:30,162 --> 01:22:32,469 and then to see anal sex in particular 1881 01:22:32,469 --> 01:22:35,559 demonized once again as the best transmission method 1882 01:22:35,559 --> 01:22:38,127 for what became known as HIV -- 1883 01:22:38,127 --> 01:22:40,433 um, these sort of realities 1884 01:22:40,433 --> 01:22:42,609 have a terrible impact on self-image, 1885 01:22:42,609 --> 01:22:45,134 have a terrible impact on how we -- 1886 01:22:45,134 --> 01:22:47,440 how we navigate our sex lives, 1887 01:22:47,440 --> 01:22:51,662 let alone how a mass public takes up our sex lives. 1888 01:22:51,662 --> 01:22:55,579 And I do believe homosexuality is a moral perversion. 1889 01:22:55,579 --> 01:22:58,321 Uh, participates in every kind 1890 01:22:58,321 --> 01:23:01,715 of bloody and filthy, uh, kind of sexual activity. 1891 01:23:01,715 --> 01:23:05,197 One of the terms I remember used a lot was "general public." 1892 01:23:05,197 --> 01:23:08,461 General public was people who were innocent 1893 01:23:08,461 --> 01:23:10,159 of the kinds of practices 1894 01:23:10,159 --> 01:23:13,292 that gay men were "indulging" in. 1895 01:23:13,292 --> 01:23:16,078 One of the words I saw a lot in the media. 1896 01:23:16,078 --> 01:23:18,689 One of the words that I identify with homophobia. 1897 01:23:18,689 --> 01:23:21,257 Somehow, gay men "indulge" in sex. 1898 01:23:21,257 --> 01:23:23,650 Other people don't indulge in sex. 1899 01:23:23,650 --> 01:23:25,217 Of course, it was tragic 1900 01:23:25,217 --> 01:23:28,438 when a young child got HIV from a blood supply, 1901 01:23:28,438 --> 01:23:30,092 but it was also tragic 1902 01:23:30,092 --> 01:23:34,879 when a 19-year-old man got HIV from a sexual encounter. 1903 01:23:34,879 --> 01:23:44,019 ♪♪ 1904 01:23:44,019 --> 01:23:46,804 Patient Zero, uh, was very helpful to us 1905 01:23:46,804 --> 01:23:48,414 in a number of ways 1906 01:23:48,414 --> 01:23:50,547 when he was very open about his sexual partners, 1907 01:23:50,547 --> 01:23:52,766 which allowed Bill Darrow to do the work 1908 01:23:52,766 --> 01:23:55,160 that led to the cluster creation. 1909 01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:56,640 He also agreed to come to Atlanta 1910 01:23:56,640 --> 01:23:58,511 to give a large amount of blood, 1911 01:23:58,511 --> 01:24:01,688 thinking if anybody has a new virus, he has it. 1912 01:24:01,688 --> 01:24:03,560 Well, for several years, we had the conversation 1913 01:24:03,560 --> 01:24:05,910 between myself, Mike Worobey -- 1914 01:24:05,910 --> 01:24:07,999 who's a molecular phylogeneticist 1915 01:24:07,999 --> 01:24:09,305 at the University of Arizona -- 1916 01:24:09,305 --> 01:24:10,741 saying, "Let's try to figure out 1917 01:24:10,741 --> 01:24:12,612 what Patient Zero represents." 1918 01:24:12,612 --> 01:24:13,961 Was he really the first case? 1919 01:24:13,961 --> 01:24:16,138 How does he tie into the early epidemic? 1920 01:24:16,138 --> 01:24:18,836 So Mike Worobey agreed to do genetic sequencing 1921 01:24:18,836 --> 01:24:21,012 on some very early samples that we collected. 1922 01:24:21,012 --> 01:24:23,406 I think it was Harold who said, you know, 1923 01:24:23,406 --> 01:24:26,974 "We've got the Patient Zero samples, as well, 1924 01:24:26,974 --> 01:24:28,585 and why not look at those?" 1925 01:24:28,585 --> 01:24:30,891 And -- And for -- for me, you know -- 1926 01:24:30,891 --> 01:24:34,460 someone who does this sort of evolutionary stuff -- 1927 01:24:34,460 --> 01:24:36,767 "Patient Zero" has never been a thing. 1928 01:24:36,767 --> 01:24:38,943 It's always been clear that, um -- 1929 01:24:38,943 --> 01:24:41,685 Ag-- As I say, he was just, you know, one of lots of people 1930 01:24:41,685 --> 01:24:43,078 who were infected. 1931 01:24:43,078 --> 01:24:44,427 There has been an idea 1932 01:24:44,427 --> 01:24:48,170 that he may have been the -- the conduit 1933 01:24:48,170 --> 01:24:50,737 that connected the early epidemic -- 1934 01:24:50,737 --> 01:24:53,436 let's say, in New York City to -- to the West Coast. 1935 01:24:53,436 --> 01:24:54,959 Well, it's not his -- 1936 01:24:54,959 --> 01:24:58,441 His is sort of a typical New York City sequence, 1937 01:24:58,441 --> 01:24:59,790 and there are other sequences -- 1938 01:24:59,790 --> 01:25:01,922 early sequences from New York City 1939 01:25:01,922 --> 01:25:04,882 that are much closer to the West Coast... 1940 01:25:04,882 --> 01:25:07,145 uh, from nameless individuals 1941 01:25:07,145 --> 01:25:10,844 that we're not talking about or making films about. 1942 01:25:10,844 --> 01:25:12,803 And then, when we did a -- 1943 01:25:12,803 --> 01:25:14,848 generated the sequence from Patient Zero, 1944 01:25:14,848 --> 01:25:16,720 we put that into the family tree, 1945 01:25:16,720 --> 01:25:21,333 and it just fell randomly in the middle. 1946 01:25:21,333 --> 01:25:24,380 You would expect from evolutionary theory 1947 01:25:24,380 --> 01:25:27,731 that if a -- if a sample was the founder, 1948 01:25:27,731 --> 01:25:32,083 that it would form a base branch to the tree. 1949 01:25:32,083 --> 01:25:33,606 Um, when it doesn't, 1950 01:25:33,606 --> 01:25:35,869 that means that it is not the founder. 1951 01:25:35,869 --> 01:25:37,436 It was just an average, 1952 01:25:37,436 --> 01:25:41,962 mundane HIV Subtype B from the time. 1953 01:25:41,962 --> 01:25:43,703 And with Patient Zero -- 1954 01:25:43,703 --> 01:25:46,793 Gaétan Dugas in particular -- 1955 01:25:46,793 --> 01:25:52,190 Um, you know, I-I didn't realize until Harold Jaffe told me 1956 01:25:52,190 --> 01:25:57,413 that he made a special trip s-- to -- to CDC in Atlanta, uh, 1957 01:25:57,413 --> 01:26:02,113 really just to, um -- uh, donate samples. 1958 01:26:02,113 --> 01:26:05,464 I-I find it remarkable that this guy did this 1959 01:26:05,464 --> 01:26:08,989 and he's emerged into our consciousness 1960 01:26:08,989 --> 01:26:10,904 as something special, in large part 1961 01:26:10,904 --> 01:26:14,212 because he helped epidemiologists 1962 01:26:14,212 --> 01:26:16,606 who were trying to figure out what was going on. 1963 01:26:16,606 --> 01:26:18,347 Very unfortunate, 1964 01:26:18,347 --> 01:26:21,393 because people interpreted that zero 1965 01:26:21,393 --> 01:26:24,614 to be the starting point of the epidemic. 1966 01:26:24,614 --> 01:26:28,444 And this person who had nothing to do 1967 01:26:28,444 --> 01:26:34,189 with starting this epidemic was accused of being the source, 1968 01:26:34,189 --> 01:26:37,888 which was never our intent, never meant to be. 1969 01:26:37,888 --> 01:26:40,412 I think the -- the -- the crucial contribution 1970 01:26:40,412 --> 01:26:44,895 Gaétan Dugas made was his very active cooperation 1971 01:26:44,895 --> 01:26:47,767 in a moment of extreme fear when -- 1972 01:26:47,767 --> 01:26:50,205 He's French Canadian. He could have been deported. 1973 01:26:50,205 --> 01:26:52,729 But he's going to Atlanta when he's very ill. 1974 01:26:52,729 --> 01:26:54,600 He's going to San Francisco to meet with this -- 1975 01:26:54,600 --> 01:26:55,949 the researchers. 1976 01:26:55,949 --> 01:26:59,649 Gaétan Dugas m-- really was crucial 1977 01:26:59,649 --> 01:27:02,129 to us understanding that AIDS was 1978 01:27:02,129 --> 01:27:04,610 a sexually transmitted disease, and therefore, 1979 01:27:04,610 --> 01:27:06,612 he should be acclaimed as a hero of the epidemic, 1980 01:27:06,612 --> 01:27:08,484 of the fight against AIDS. 1981 01:27:08,484 --> 01:27:17,667 ♪♪ 1982 01:27:17,667 --> 01:27:20,800 Lee: The toll of AIDS is demonstrated on that memorial. 1983 01:27:20,800 --> 01:27:25,152 Those people who died of AIDS 1984 01:27:25,152 --> 01:27:26,806 were the guinea pigs 1985 01:27:26,806 --> 01:27:28,852 who made our lives a lot better. 1986 01:27:28,852 --> 01:27:32,551 People have to remember that this community went 1987 01:27:32,551 --> 01:27:34,727 and supported all those folks. 1988 01:27:34,727 --> 01:27:37,774 And this memorial is there to -- to just make sure 1989 01:27:37,774 --> 01:27:39,689 that they're immortalized. 1990 01:27:39,689 --> 01:27:43,040 ♪♪ 1991 01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:45,216 Curran: When those first five cases were reported, 1992 01:27:45,216 --> 01:27:49,307 there were already 250,000 gay men infected with HIV, 1993 01:27:49,307 --> 01:27:51,788 and by the time the virus was discovered 1994 01:27:51,788 --> 01:27:54,704 and an antibody test was commercially available, 1995 01:27:54,704 --> 01:27:57,968 there were perhaps 500,000 gay men infected 1996 01:27:57,968 --> 01:28:00,057 in the United States, and the vast majority 1997 01:28:00,057 --> 01:28:02,059 of those men have died. 1998 01:28:02,059 --> 01:28:03,974 There's more than one aspect. There is the personal aspect 1999 01:28:03,974 --> 01:28:05,889 of actual human beings who died, 2000 01:28:05,889 --> 01:28:08,718 um, and then, there is this culture 2001 01:28:08,718 --> 01:28:10,894 that disappeared in five seconds. 2002 01:28:10,894 --> 01:28:15,725 All the plays never written, the performances never sung. 2003 01:28:16,987 --> 01:28:18,902 The books never written. 2004 01:28:20,120 --> 01:28:23,863 Even the audiences that never filled the seats. 2005 01:28:23,863 --> 01:28:25,909 All the people we lost -- 2006 01:28:25,909 --> 01:28:27,214 all of the older people 2007 01:28:27,214 --> 01:28:28,999 who could have been mentors to me 2008 01:28:28,999 --> 01:28:33,482 to show me how to get older as a gay man, that I don't have. 2009 01:28:33,482 --> 01:28:38,443 The gay men that I personally, uh, lost 2010 01:28:38,443 --> 01:28:39,966 and many of the gay men 2011 01:28:39,966 --> 01:28:41,794 that I worked with at the airline 2012 01:28:41,794 --> 01:28:46,103 were bright, kind, 2013 01:28:46,103 --> 01:28:48,497 fun, nice people. 2014 01:28:48,497 --> 01:28:50,325 They wanted the same things out of life 2015 01:28:50,325 --> 01:28:52,327 that all the rest of us want. 2016 01:28:52,327 --> 01:28:54,938 They wanted to have a relationship, 2017 01:28:54,938 --> 01:28:56,592 to be loved -- 2018 01:28:56,592 --> 01:28:59,072 to grow old together, m-many of them -- 2019 01:28:59,072 --> 01:29:03,642 and they contributed to our society in many ways. 2020 01:29:03,642 --> 01:29:07,733 And it is absolutely devastating 2021 01:29:07,733 --> 01:29:10,997 that we lost so many. 2022 01:29:10,997 --> 01:29:18,614 ♪♪ 2023 01:29:18,614 --> 01:29:26,230 ♪♪ 2024 01:29:26,230 --> 01:29:33,846 ♪♪ 2025 01:29:33,846 --> 01:29:36,980 I have this belief, uh, or theory -- 2026 01:29:36,980 --> 01:29:38,895 not that there's a big difference between those two -- 2027 01:29:38,895 --> 01:29:42,028 that AIDS is what caused gay marriage. 2028 01:29:42,028 --> 01:29:45,684 You know, that all these astonishing changes 2029 01:29:45,684 --> 01:29:49,514 in society's, um, idea o-of -- of being gay, 2030 01:29:49,514 --> 01:29:51,168 I don't think that would have happened without AIDS. 2031 01:29:51,168 --> 01:29:53,562 If you can stay in Atlanta 2032 01:29:53,562 --> 01:29:55,520 and buy a house in the suburbs 2033 01:29:55,520 --> 01:29:56,913 and marry your boyfriend 2034 01:29:56,913 --> 01:29:59,176 and be a dentist, they do. 2035 01:30:00,177 --> 01:30:01,787 So, [Laughs] you know, it turns out 2036 01:30:01,787 --> 01:30:04,050 that the average homosexual 2037 01:30:04,050 --> 01:30:06,009 turned out to be more average than homosexual. 2038 01:30:06,009 --> 01:30:07,619 This is a surprising thing to me. 2039 01:30:07,619 --> 01:30:11,188 It's something that has not been universally welcomed 2040 01:30:11,188 --> 01:30:12,798 by gay communities. 2041 01:30:12,798 --> 01:30:14,583 I know that I do. 2042 01:30:14,583 --> 01:30:16,933 I'm happy about it. 2043 01:30:16,933 --> 01:30:18,804 Um, I won't call her my wife, 2044 01:30:18,804 --> 01:30:21,111 but I'm happy to have a legal piece of paper. 2045 01:30:21,111 --> 01:30:22,634 There's nothing more important 2046 01:30:22,634 --> 01:30:25,115 than having someone in your life, you know, 2047 01:30:25,115 --> 01:30:27,073 to be your witness, to be your partner, 2048 01:30:27,073 --> 01:30:28,553 to be there when you need something. 2049 01:30:28,553 --> 01:30:30,163 I always had so many friends, 2050 01:30:30,163 --> 01:30:34,690 I never saw marriage as something necessary. 2051 01:30:34,690 --> 01:30:37,562 But the older I get, the fewer friends there are. 2052 01:30:37,562 --> 01:30:40,391 And so, now I understand on a deep, personal level 2053 01:30:40,391 --> 01:30:42,828 what it means to have someone who's been a witness 2054 01:30:42,828 --> 01:30:46,658 to your life's journey to be there with you to the end. 2055 01:30:46,658 --> 01:30:49,226 And suddenly, here we are now with gay marriage 2056 01:30:49,226 --> 01:30:51,010 and gays in the military, 2057 01:30:51,010 --> 01:30:53,317 where they've been excluded before. 2058 01:30:53,317 --> 01:30:54,753 All of that happened -- 2059 01:30:54,753 --> 01:30:56,973 "And the Band Played On" played an important part 2060 01:30:56,973 --> 01:30:58,670 in that recognition 2061 01:30:58,670 --> 01:31:02,674 that there was a large number of gay men in America. 2062 01:31:02,674 --> 01:31:04,633 But the AIDS epidemic was really the thing 2063 01:31:04,633 --> 01:31:07,157 that focused us on the fact 2064 01:31:07,157 --> 01:31:09,464 that there were large numbers of gay men -- 2065 01:31:09,464 --> 01:31:12,379 that your uncle, the --the bachelor, 2066 01:31:12,379 --> 01:31:14,643 your -- your brother, your son -- 2067 01:31:14,643 --> 01:31:17,733 maybe even your dad -- was gay. 2068 01:31:17,733 --> 01:31:23,434 It took 800,000 gay men to die 2069 01:31:23,434 --> 01:31:26,524 for the American public to realize 2070 01:31:26,524 --> 01:31:30,397 that homosexuals were a large part of this community. 2071 01:31:30,397 --> 01:31:33,270 That was really the legacy of the AIDS epidemic. 2072 01:31:33,270 --> 01:31:38,884 ♪♪ 2073 01:31:38,884 --> 01:31:41,670 You know, now's the time to say what the impact was 2074 01:31:41,670 --> 01:31:46,152 on -- on his family and, um -- 2075 01:31:46,152 --> 01:31:50,417 and for his memory to be, uh, you know -- 2076 01:31:50,417 --> 01:31:52,855 uh, w-washed clean 2077 01:31:52,855 --> 01:31:56,206 of this, you know, horror that was, uh -- 2078 01:31:56,206 --> 01:31:59,426 um, you know, put upon them, really, 2079 01:31:59,426 --> 01:32:02,604 I went to see him in Quebec City at the hospital, 2080 01:32:02,604 --> 01:32:06,608 and he didn't know I was coming because I couldn't say 2081 01:32:06,608 --> 01:32:09,088 if -- if I was able to get on a flight or not. 2082 01:32:09,088 --> 01:32:12,048 So I showed up there, and, um, he said to me... 2083 01:32:12,048 --> 01:32:14,267 [Gasps] Gaétane! Gaétan! 2084 01:32:14,267 --> 01:32:16,313 [Speaking French] 2085 01:32:16,313 --> 01:32:20,012 Then he was very self-conscious of what he looked like, 2086 01:32:20,012 --> 01:32:23,581 because he had those, um, see-- 2087 01:32:23,581 --> 01:32:27,237 the -- the -- the purple, eh, spot on him from, um -- 2088 01:32:27,237 --> 01:32:29,152 Man: KS? Ye-- KS. 2089 01:32:29,152 --> 01:32:31,720 And, eh, so, he's going -- covering his head. 2090 01:32:31,720 --> 01:32:33,460 And I said, no, no, no. [Speaking French] 2091 01:32:33,460 --> 01:32:36,333 So then, he said to me, ehm, "But you know what? 2092 01:32:36,333 --> 01:32:39,641 I will get a Dalmatian dog, 2093 01:32:39,641 --> 01:32:42,513 and I'll take him running on the beach 2094 01:32:42,513 --> 01:32:44,515 so we'll look the same, like we're twins." 2095 01:32:44,515 --> 01:32:47,257 S-- You know, he made humor. 2096 01:32:47,257 --> 01:32:49,651 Like, he wasn't... 2097 01:32:49,651 --> 01:32:51,043 Yeah, he was, uh -- 2098 01:32:51,043 --> 01:32:53,568 That's how I knew him, so... 2099 01:32:53,568 --> 01:32:57,876 I dec-- Okay, I decided to do this... 2100 01:32:57,876 --> 01:32:59,008 for Gaétan. 2101 01:32:59,008 --> 01:33:00,705 Like, I just felt, 2102 01:33:00,705 --> 01:33:05,057 Well, this is my chance to really, eh, show him 2103 01:33:05,057 --> 01:33:06,798 how much I loved him, you know? 2104 01:33:06,798 --> 01:33:09,453 By coming forward and say, "No, this is not true. 2105 01:33:09,453 --> 01:33:10,541 No, this is not true." 2106 01:33:10,541 --> 01:33:13,413 Uh, this photo -- 2107 01:33:13,413 --> 01:33:16,634 this photo, I think, is probably the nicest one 2108 01:33:16,634 --> 01:33:18,070 because he looks very sweet, 2109 01:33:18,070 --> 01:33:19,681 and he's just sitting there being sweet. 2110 01:33:19,681 --> 01:33:21,900 This one was probably the most famous one. 2111 01:33:21,900 --> 01:33:24,033 He's kind of... 2112 01:33:24,033 --> 01:33:25,208 in the air. 2113 01:33:25,208 --> 01:33:26,557 He's flying, 2114 01:33:26,557 --> 01:33:27,906 He's having a good time. 2115 01:33:27,906 --> 01:33:29,255 He looks angelic. 2116 01:33:29,255 --> 01:33:31,693 He's like this golden boy, you know? 2117 01:33:31,693 --> 01:33:34,609 Um, in the air. [Laughs] 2118 01:33:34,609 --> 01:33:36,741 And this is the one where he was trying to show his dick. 2119 01:33:36,741 --> 01:33:39,875 He doesn't manage to get his dick in the picture. 2120 01:33:39,875 --> 01:33:43,922 Uh, this picture I didn't send to "Life" magazine 2121 01:33:43,922 --> 01:33:45,532 because another friend 2122 01:33:45,532 --> 01:33:50,755 who has great gallows humor sense said, 2123 01:33:50,755 --> 01:33:52,452 "Don't send that one to 'Life.' 2124 01:33:52,452 --> 01:33:54,933 They probably don't want to see the murder weapon." 2125 01:33:54,933 --> 01:33:56,761 So they didn't get this one. 2126 01:33:56,761 --> 01:33:59,024 You have it, somehow. 2127 01:33:59,024 --> 01:34:01,200 That is all of them, actually. 2128 01:34:01,200 --> 01:34:04,073 ♪♪ 2129 01:34:04,073 --> 01:34:06,336 Eh, it's saying... 2130 01:34:06,336 --> 01:34:08,512 [Speaking French] 2131 01:34:08,512 --> 01:34:09,992 "I'm saying goodbye." 2132 01:34:11,471 --> 01:34:15,737 "I love you, and I'm waiting for you... 2133 01:34:15,737 --> 01:34:17,564 in heaven," basically. 2134 01:34:17,564 --> 01:34:20,045 And "Gaétan." 2135 01:34:20,045 --> 01:34:21,264 Of course, the airplane. 2136 01:34:21,264 --> 01:34:24,180 Eh, our job, and... 2137 01:34:24,180 --> 01:34:26,182 Ah. 2138 01:34:26,182 --> 01:34:27,662 ♪♪ 2139 01:34:27,662 --> 01:34:29,751 It says, um -- Well, the last part is, 2140 01:34:29,751 --> 01:34:30,969 "W-We'll, um" -- 2141 01:34:30,969 --> 01:34:33,406 [Weeping] 2142 01:34:33,406 --> 01:34:34,625 "We'll see you in heav" -- 2143 01:34:34,625 --> 01:34:37,193 "We'll see you in heaven." 2144 01:34:37,193 --> 01:34:38,411 Pfoof. 2145 01:34:38,411 --> 01:34:40,370 I can't remember the first part. 2146 01:34:40,370 --> 01:34:42,285 That's age. [Laughs] 2147 01:34:42,285 --> 01:34:43,678 The first part -- 2148 01:34:43,678 --> 01:34:46,289 "I'm s-- I'm saying goodbye to you. 2149 01:34:46,289 --> 01:34:47,899 I love you... 2150 01:34:47,899 --> 01:34:49,727 and I'm waiting for you in heaven." 2151 01:34:49,727 --> 01:34:52,817 ♪♪ 2152 01:34:52,817 --> 01:34:55,124 That's beautiful. 2153 01:34:55,124 --> 01:34:57,648 And I'll see him there. 2154 01:34:57,648 --> 01:34:59,258 I'm already talking to him. 2155 01:34:59,258 --> 01:35:00,869 [Laughs] 2156 01:35:00,869 --> 01:35:02,871 [Chuckles] 2157 01:35:02,871 --> 01:35:04,873 I don't know what the legacy of the photos is. 2158 01:35:04,873 --> 01:35:09,181 Hopefully, they l-- portray him in a positive light, 2159 01:35:09,181 --> 01:35:11,793 because, uh, he's not so-- 2160 01:35:11,793 --> 01:35:15,231 sort of a -- a negative in a sad story. 2161 01:35:15,231 --> 01:35:18,538 He wasn't negative or a sad person. 2162 01:35:18,538 --> 01:35:20,715 Like, he was very happy and, you know, funny. 2163 01:35:20,715 --> 01:35:23,500 And, um -- 2164 01:35:23,500 --> 01:35:26,851 Uh, so I think the photos represent him 2165 01:35:26,851 --> 01:35:28,418 kind of nicely, if you will. 2166 01:35:28,418 --> 01:35:31,247 Like, he -- he looks like an attractive young guy 2167 01:35:31,247 --> 01:35:34,032 who's enjoying himself, and that's who he was. 2168 01:35:34,032 --> 01:35:41,213 ♪♪ 2169 01:35:41,213 --> 01:35:48,351 ♪♪ 2170 01:35:50,875 --> 01:35:54,009 ♪♪ 2171 01:35:54,009 --> 01:35:57,490 ♪ Ooh ♪ 2172 01:35:57,490 --> 01:35:58,665 ♪ Ooh-ooh ♪ 2173 01:35:58,665 --> 01:36:01,494 ♪♪ 2174 01:36:01,494 --> 01:36:02,887 ♪ Ooh ♪ 2175 01:36:02,887 --> 01:36:05,020 ♪♪ 2176 01:36:05,020 --> 01:36:06,673 ♪ Ooh-ooh ♪ 2177 01:36:06,673 --> 01:36:08,937 ♪♪ 2178 01:36:08,937 --> 01:36:12,723 ♪ Oooooooh-ooh ♪ 2179 01:36:12,723 --> 01:36:16,509 ♪ Ooooooooooooh-ooh ♪ 2180 01:36:16,509 --> 01:36:20,296 ♪ Ooooooh-ooh ♪ 2181 01:36:20,296 --> 01:36:21,427 ♪ Ooh ♪ 2182 01:36:21,427 --> 01:36:30,959 ♪♪ 2183 01:36:30,959 --> 01:36:40,446 ♪♪ 2184 01:36:40,446 --> 01:36:49,978 ♪♪ 2185 01:36:49,978 --> 01:36:59,465 ♪♪ 2186 01:36:59,465 --> 01:37:08,997 ♪♪ 2187 01:37:08,997 --> 01:37:18,484 ♪♪ 2188 01:37:18,484 --> 01:37:28,016 ♪♪ 2189 01:37:28,016 --> 01:37:37,503 ♪♪ 2190 01:37:37,503 --> 01:37:47,035 ♪♪ 2191 01:37:47,035 --> 01:37:56,522 ♪♪ 2192 01:37:56,522 --> 01:38:06,054 ♪♪ 2193 01:38:06,054 --> 01:38:15,541 ♪♪ 2194 01:38:15,541 --> 01:38:25,073 ♪♪ 2195 01:38:25,073 --> 01:38:27,205 [Warbling] 158388

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