All language subtitles for 016 - Yes Minister - The Challenge-eng

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The main news this Thursday pm
is the big government re-shuffle.

I have with me, to discuss his new empire,

the Minister for Administrative Affairs,
the Right Honourable James Hacker.

It's been said that you are now Mr
Town Hall as well as Mr Whitehall.

Well, it's very flattering
of you to put it that way.

It wasn't me who put it that
way, it was the Daily Mirror.

I just wanted to confirm that you are
now this country's chief bureaucrat.

That's nonsense. This government
believes in reducing bureaucracy.

Figures I have here say that your
department's staff has risen by 10%.

- Certainly not.
- What figure do you have?

I believe the figure
is much more like 9.97.

Well, it has been suggested that
your department is less interested

in reducing bureaucracy
than in increasing it.

Well, yes, but that's because we've had to
take on more staff in order to reduce staff.

- I beg your pardon?
- It's common sense.

We need more doctors to cure more patients,
more firemen to extinguish more fires.

How will you extinguish
local government bureaucracy?

It's a challenge I'm looking forward to.

Would you agree there's even more
bureaucratic waste there than in Whitehall?

- Yes, that's what makes it a challenge.
- How will you meet the challenge?

It's far too early to give detailed proposals.
I've just come here direct from Number 10.

From number 9.97, perhaps!

The broad strategy is to cut ruthlessly at
waste while leaving essential services intact.

That's what your predecessor
said. Did he fail?

Let me finish. Because we must be absolutely
clear and I'm going to be quite frank with you.

The fact is that, at the end of
the day, it is the right, the duty,

of the elected government
in the House of Commons

to ensure government policy, the
policies on which we were elected

and for which we have a mandate, the
policies for which the people voted,

are the policies which, finally, when
the national cake has been divided up...

And may I remind you we, as a
nation, don't have unlimited wealth?

We can't pay ourselves more than we earn.

...are the policies...

I'm sorry, what was the question again?

I was just asking you whether you would
agree that your predecessor had failed.

Certainly not. On the contrary.

It's just that this job is an enormous...

- Challenge?
- Exactly!

Incidentally, I heard your chap
on the radio yesterday, Humpy.

- Mm?
- Mm.

He sounded as if he wanted to DO things
about your new local government remit.

He kept calling it a challenge.

- Congratulations.
- Very kind.

You may soon be even more
important than Arnold!

- Yes, I expect... Er, no, no, no, no, no.
- I do want to be quite clear about this.

I'd never have given you local government
if I'd thought you'd let Hacker do anything.

- He won't be able to. Nobody else has.
- That's not the point, Humpy.

We've found in the past that all
local government reforms rebound on us.

When anybody finds a way of saving money
or cutting staff in local government,

it works for Whitehall just as well.

Yes, but local government is extravagant,
overstaffed, incompetent, whereas we...

- Exactly so.
- I know my duty, Arnold.

If he needs something to keep
him busy, you know what to do?

Get him to look into civil defence.

- Civil defence? You mean fallout shelters?
- Yes.

Governments long ago decided civil
defence was not a serious issue.

Merely a desperate one!

It's best left to those whose
incompetence can be relied upon.

Local authorities!

But the highest duty of government
is to protect its citizens.

Presumably that's why they
leave it to the borough councils!

Thank you, gentlemen.

Can I have a word about a proposal I worked out
before we were transferred to this department?

- And you are?
- I am... what?

- Yes, you are what?
- What?

- What?
- I am Dr Cartwright.

If I may put it another way, what are you?

I'm C of E.

The Minister means, what function
do you perform in the department?

- Don't you know?
- Yes, I know, but the Minister wants to know.

I'm a professional economist. Director
of Local Administration Statistics.

You ran the Local Authority
Directorate before we took over.

Dear me, no. Sir Gordon Reid
was the Permanent Secretary.

I'm just Under-Secretary rank.
I fear I shall rise no higher.

- Why not?
- Alas, I'm an expert.

- On what?
- On the whole thing.

- It's all in here.
- What's this all about?

Controlling council expenditure.

I'm proposing that all council
officials responsible for a new project

list their criteria for failure
before getting the go-ahead.

- What do you mean?
- It's a basic scientific approach.

You must establish a method of measuring
the success or failure of an experiment.

When it's completed, you know
if it's succeeded or failed.

A proposer states "This scheme would
fail if it lasts longer than this

"or costs more than that, if
it employs more staff than these

"or fails to meet pre-set standards."

- Fantastic! You could never make it work.
- 'Course you can. It's all in there.

This is my top priority reading.
Why hasn't it been done before?

I can't understand. I put it up several
times and it was always welcomed most warmly.

- But there was always something more urgent on.
- Well, you've come to the right place this time.

Thank you, Minister.

This is marvellous, isn't it, Bernard?

Isn't it, Bernard?

Oh, yes. Well, it's... er... That
is, it's... um... very well presented.

- Humphrey will be fascinated.
- He's on his way here.

- He'll give his views.
- What are you saying?

Yes, well, as I say, I think that he'll
think that it's beautifully... typed.

- Ah, Minister.
- Ah, Humphrey, come in.

- Sit down.
- Thank you, Minister.

Now, local authorities.
What are we going to do?

Minister, this new remit gives you
more influence, more Cabinet seniority.

But do not let it give you any more
work or worry. That would be foolishness.

We've got to stop this
appalling waste and extravagance.

Why?

- Why?
- Yes, why?

Well, it's my job. We're the
government. We were elected to govern.

Oh, really, Minister.

Surely you won't tamper with the democratic
rights of freely-elected local representatives?

Well... no, of course not.

But local government isn't
democratic. Local democracy's a farce!

Most people don't know who their councillor
is. They never vote in a local election.

Those who do regard it as a popularity
poll for the government here.

Local councillors are
accountable to nobody.

They're public-spirited citizens
selflessly sacrificing their spare time.

- Ever met any?
- When there was no alternative.

They're either busybodies on an ego trip
or in it for what they can get out of it.

Perhaps they ought to be
in the House of Commons.

Er, I mean, to see how a proper
legislative assembly behaves.

- I'm going to get a grip on them. I have a plan.
- You have a plan?

Yes.

I'm going to insist that any local official
who puts up a plan costing more than...

...say... �10,000 must accompany
it with failure standards.

- With what?!
- With a statement saying he will have failed

if his project does not achieve
certain... pre-set results...

...or exceeds... fixed time
or staff or budget limits.

Where did you get the idea
for this dangerous nonsense?

From someone... in the department.

I have warned you before about the danger
of speaking to people in the department!

I implore you to stay out of the minefield of
local government. It is a political graveyard.

Excuse me, Sir Humphrey, you cannot
have a graveyard in a minefield

because all the corpses would... powww!

- You got me this job, you said.
- But I didn't expect you to do anything.

I mean, you've never done anything before!

- Humphrey, I am deaf to your complaints.
- Please, I beg you...

No, no, no, no, Humphrey. I want
specific proposals straight away.

And immediate plans for their implementation
by local government. What's the fuss about?

I'm only proposing failure standards
for local government, not Whitehall.

- Though come to think of it...
- If you insist on interfering in local government,

may I make a suggestion that
could prove a vote winner?

Humphrey, I want to hear no more about...

Vote winner?

An area of local government
that needs urgent attention.

- What?
- Civil defence.

You mean fallout shelters?
Surely they're just a joke.

Precisely, Minister. At
the moment, they are a joke.

Local authorities are dragging their feet,
but the highest duty of any government

is to protect its citizens.

Some think building shelters
makes nuclear war more likely.

If you have the weapons,
you need the shelters.

- Sometimes wonder why we need the weapons.
- Minister, you're not a unilateralist?

- Well... I sometimes wonder.
- Then you must resign from the government!

Ah, no, no, no, no, no, no.
I'm not THAT unilateralist.

- America will protect us from the Russians.
- Who's talking about the Russians?

- Well, the independent deterrent.
- It's to protect us against the French!

The French?

- But that's astounding!
- Why?

- Well, they're our allies, our partners.
- They are NOW.

But they've been our enemies
for most of the past 900 years.

If they've got the bomb,
we must have the bomb!

If it's for the French, of course,
that's different. Makes a lot of sense.

- Yes. Can't trust the Frogs.
- You can say that again!

There is increasing public
concern about the bomb.

If I were to be seen to be doing
something about it... I see what you mean.

Ludovic Kennedy is preparing a
BBC documentary on civil defence

likely to be critical
of the current situation.

If you were seen to be
taking decisive measures...

Right, yes.

I always handle Ludo so frightfully well.

- Right, well, where do we start?
- Just a suggestion.

The London Borough of Thames Marsh spends
less on civil defence than any other authority.

Hm. A ministerial visit, do you think?

That's Ben Stanley's borough
- the one with the wispy moustache, who the press all hate.

Good point. Get onto it straight away. Get Bill
to make sure the press knows about this visit.

Tell them I lie awake at night worrying about
the defenceless citizens of Thames Marsh.

Do you, Minister?

Well, I will now.

What makes you think you can come
swanning down here from Whitehall

and tell us how to run our borough?

I'm not swanning down from Whitehall.

I'm asking you why you've done
less than any other borough

to protect the people who elected you?

- Simple. We can't find the money.
- Why don't you try looking for it?

Oh, that's great! Stop school
meals, buy no textbooks?

- Turn OAPs out into the cold?
- I can tell you where to find it.

- You can?
- Yes.

Tell him, Dr Cartwright.

Scrap the plans for the new exhibition centre
with the artificial ski slope and jacuzzi pool.

Close the Feminist Drama Centre,

the council's weekly newspaper and magazine
and the Welfare Rights Research Department.

You can halve the members'
entertainments allowance,

sell the Mayor's second Daimler, postpone
the building of the new town hall,

and cancel the 20 councillors' tourism
fact-finding mission to Jamaica.

And close the Gay Bereavement Centre.

That'll save �21 millions on capital account
and �750,000 a year on revenue account.

Revenue account.

- That's just stupid!
- Why?

Well, it's depriving the disadvantaged
of indispensable services!

- Jacuzzi pools?
- I don't care if we can afford a shelter.

This is a unilateralist borough.
We do not believe in nuclear war.

I don't believe in it either, but the
provision of shelters is government policy.

It is not Thames Marsh policy. Thames
Marsh has no quarrel with the USSR.

It's not just the USSR we're
frightened of. It could be the Fre...

- The who?
- The... frigging Chinese!

If the Russians do invade
us, I suppose they'll say,

"Hold on, we're not at war with Thames Marsh.
Right, comrades, let's annex Chelsea instead."

Excuse me, Minister. I think
you may be interested in...

Mr Stanley, it appears that you would not
be called upon to make the supreme sacrifice.

- What do you mean?
- Is there a shelter under the town hall?

Well, is there?

- We didn't build it!
- You maintain it.

- It's only a small one.
- And there is a place in it for you?

I was persuaded, with deep reluctance,
that my preservation was a necessity

in the interests of the
ratepayers of Thames Marsh.

And what provision have you made for other
essential persons? Doctors, nurses, firemen.

People who might be almost
as important as councillors.

One of them's a chemist!

Great. Nothing like aspirin
for the nuclear holocaust.

Your chap had quite a publicity
triumph down at Thames Marsh, didn't he?

- Oh, yes, tremendous.
- You don't sound appropriately happy for him.

- Trouble is he thinks he's achieved something.
- Splendid.

Life is so much easier when ministers
think they've achieved something.

Stops them fretting. No tantrums.

Now he wants to introduce his next idea.

A minister with two ideas. I can't
remember when we last had one of those.

Oh, it's not his own.

He wants to introduce failure standards
on all council contracts over �10,000

and make a named official responsible.

- Humphrey!
- I know.

Cartwright's idiot scheme! I
thought Gordon had squashed it.

He's come over to us now. Slipped the scheme
to the minister privately, under plain cover!

It'll be us next. Once you specify in
advance what a project's supposed to achieve

and whose responsibility it is to see
that it does, the entire system collapses.

You're into the squalid world
of professional management.

I know. I've tried to explain to him.

I have pointed out that his new responsibilities
were for enjoying, not exercising. I don't know.

We move our officials round every 2 or 3 years
to stop this personal responsibility nonsense.

If this happened, we'd be posting
everybody once a fortnight.

He must be stopped. What's
his next little publicity trip?

Well, tomorrow he's living
his little triumph over again.

He's recording a TV interview with Ludovic
Kennedy. A documentary on civil defence.

Supposing he had a dossier on the
curious ways in which local councillors

spend their civil defence budgets.

- How would that help?
- I've got an idea.

Perhaps you ought to become a minister!

Um... just a joke, Arnold.

Stand by, studio. We're about to record.

A change for a minister to be given a chance
to talk about something that's a success.

Most unusual for the BBC.
Is this a change of policy?

...2... 1.

You've been claiming recently that
in your dealings with local authority,

you've been making progress
as regards civil defence.

Surely this has been more in the field
of publicity than any achievement?

No, no, no, no, Ludo.

Authorities are being made
to face up to these issues

because of the interest we have generated.

You're agreeing. Your success
has been a publicity success.

Well, yes, but things are changing.

- Well, what about Thames Marsh?
- Ah, Thames Marsh. Good example.

As I said in the press,
they have one shelter.

A place in it is reserved for
Ben Stanley, council leader,

who refuses to build shelters for others.

Don't you think that's hypocritical?

Surely it's reasonable to expect that one of
our elected representatives should survive.

- Who is to govern otherwise? - In
the event of a nuclear holocaust -

and, of course, we all pray that
such a thing will never happen -

there are perhaps more important
people than mere politicians.

Doctors, nurses, ambulance men, and so
on. All people who run essential services.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not
a fact that the PM and Home Secretary

have places reserved for them
in government fallout shelters?

That is completely different.

How?

Well, there has to be someone
to... run the... you know.

Minister, you're saying political leaders should
give up their places for doctors and nurses.

Have you put this idea to
the PM and the Home Secretary?

I think we ought to be careful not to
trivialise what is a very serious issue, Ludovic.

I'll give you another example. I know
of a borough which sent councillors,

at the ratepayers' expensive, to
California to look at shelters.

But they couldn't do anything about it

because they'd spent the entire civil defence
budget for three whole years on the trip!

- How shocking.
- Shocking.

Thank you, Minister. By the
way, how did the recording go?

Well, I got into a bit of
bother over Ben Stanley's bunker.

I said politicians weren't as
important as doctors and so on.

Did you?

Then he said "What about the PM's
place in the government shelter?"

- And what did you say?
- I got out of it.

Quite cleverly, actually.

I'm not too sure how happy
the PM will be about it.

Then I recovered with a marvellous
story about some councillors

who went to California to look at shelters

and spent three entire years of the
civil defence budget on the jaunt!

- May I ask where that came from?
- Yes. Where did that come from?

From the Civil Defence Directorate.
They knew you were doing the interview.

Oh, well. Anyway, Minister, I'm
sure you know what you're doing.

Humphrey... you only say that when
I've made an appalling cock-up.

You do know the borough in question
contains the PM's constituency...

...and that the PM's election agent was
the councillor who led the delegation?

- That was just a joke, wasn't it?
- Number 10 have been trying to keep it quiet.

- Oh, well, truth will out.
- No, no, no!

No, no, no, it mustn't out. It
might look like a personal attack.

You know what the PM's like about
loyalty. This interview must not go out.

Well, unfortunately, I haven't
the time, I must be going.

Humphrey, I... I... I...
I'm ordering you, Humphrey.

- Alas, your orders are calling me away.
- What do you mean?

Your scheme for imposing failure standards
on local councils is very complex.

You asked for proposals straight away.
It's taking every moment of my time.

Much as I would like to help.

However... if implementing failure
standards were not quite so urgent...

You mean, you can stop this broadcast?

Now, Minister, we cannot censor the BBC,

but I happen to be lunching with
the BBC's Director of Policy.

- Perhaps you'd care to join us.
- But if we can't censor them...

We could persuade them to
withdraw programmes voluntarily

once they realise that transmission
is not in the public interest.

Well, it's not in MY interest... and I represent
the public, so it's not in the public interest.

That's a novel argument.

We haven't tried that
on them before. Have we?

The BBC cannot give in
to government pressure.

- Let's leave that on one side...
- No, no!

Let's leave that on one side,
shall we? Please, Minister.

Frank, could I raise something else?

There is considerable disquiet about the BBC's
attitude and hostility towards the government.

- But that's absurd.
- Is it?

They've been documenting instances
of bias in BBC current affairs.

Favourable news stories not reported.

Oh, yes. Excessive publicity for
other countries' cases against Britain.

Especially our Common Market enemies...

...um... partners.

Oh, yes.

Jokes against the Prime Minister.

Unnecessary publicity for
anti-government demonstrations.

And ministers' programme
suggestions not accepted.

- I had no room in my case for the others.
- I'm sure we have answers to all these.

The BBC's always got answers. Silly ones.

Yes, of course. I thought it fair to
warn you that questions are being asked.

- What sort of questions?
- Well, for example,

were Parliament to be televised,
whether it shouldn't be entrusted to ITV.

- You can't be serious?
- And whether the BBC administration

is making the cuts in jobs and premises
that we've endured in government.

Should a select committee
scrutinise BBC expenditure?

- That would be an intolerable intrusion.
- Well, of course.

Then there's this extraordinary matter of
boxes at Ascot, Wimbledon, Lords, Covent Garden.

Ah, yes, those are a technical requirement
for the production and engineering staff.

Reports from the Inland Revenue suggest
that the production and engineering staff

are all holding champagne glasses.

And are all accompanied
by their wives or...

...ladies of... equal distinction.

And all bear a remarkable similarity

to governors, directors and executives
of the Corporation, and their friends.

Oh, I say, you've come out very well.

It is possible we can contain all this criticism,
provided the files don't get any larger.

I've urged my minister that there's no need
to take up the civil defence issue formally.

But... But you must see my position.

- The BBC can't give in to government pressure.
- We wouldn't want them to.

- Wouldn't we?
- No, of course not.

The minister's interview with Ludovic
Kennedy did contain factual errors.

Factual errors? That's different. The BBC
couldn't give in to government pressure.

- Absolutely not.
- But we set great store by factual accuracy.

Some of the information might
well be out of date by the time...

Out of date? Ah, now, that's serious.

Obviously, the BBC couldn't
give in to government pressure.

- Oh, indeed not. - But we can't
transmit out-of-date material.

And since the recording, I realised
that I made one or two slips

that might have security implications.

- Such as?
- He can't tell you what they are.

- Why not?
- Security.

Can't be too careful about security.

If the defence of the realm is
at stake, we must be responsible.

Obviously, the BBC couldn't
give in to government pressure,

but security
- you can't be too careful.

- Can't be too careful.
- Can't be too careful.

If there are inaccuracies and security worries,
the BBC wouldn't want to put the interview out.

- Precisely.
- That puts a different complexion on it.

Transmission would not be in the public's interest,
but I must make one thing absolutely clear.

There can be absolutely no question of the
BBC ever giving in to government pressure.

Oh, good news, Minister.

The BBC have decided not to send out
your interview with Ludovic Kennedy.

- Really?
- They felt that was the responsible course.

- Well done.
- Oh, it was nothing.

Yet, you know, I can't help feeling

that I was trapped into saying those
things that might've embarrassed the PM.

- Surely not?
- Yes.

- I think I was dropped right in it.
- How could you think such a ridiculous thought?

Why is it ridiculous to imagine
that he would've tried to trap me?

Who?

Ludovic Kennedy.

Oh, Ludovic Kennedy tried to trap
you. Yes, well, I'm sure he did.

- Deceitful crowd, the media. Underhand.
- No, thoroughly deceitful.

By the way, I think it might be
wise to lay off the local councils.

Oh, yes?

After all, councillors are responsible,
sensible people on the whole.

- And they are democratically elected.
- Democratically elected.

Central government must be frightfully careful
before it tells them how to do their jobs.

Frightfully careful. And
the failure standards?

Well, I think the same
applies... don't you?

Yes, Minister.

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