All language subtitles for American.Masters.S37E09.Max.Roach.The.Drum.Also.Waltzes.480p.x264-mSD_Subtitles01.ENG

♪♪

♪♪

-Do you consider this music
as a weapon?

♪♪

-You mean as a weapon
in the fight

against discrimination
and things like that?

-Yes.
-Sometimes the music is used,

say, to make people
feel happy and joy,

but on some occasions,
we do use the music as a weapon

against man's inhumanity
toward man.

-It is with great pleasure
that I present to you

Mr. Max Roach.

♪♪

Well, jazz is,
to me, a nickname.

To me, it's synonymous to
"nigger" and things like that.

That's not the proper name

for African-American
instrumental music.

♪♪

It never was a name that we,
as musicians, gave to it.

It was a name
that just was given to it.

-So you're not a jazz musician?

-No, I'm an African-American
musician,

and that's the kind of music
that I play...

or I attempt to play.

-The Max Roach archive
at the Library of Congress

is extensive --
stills, audio recordings.

Oh, I've seen this one already.

He knew that to document his
legacy would be very important.

These are the '80s.
-Mm-hmm.

-Check this out.

I began this film in 1987,
so it's 35 years.

That's a long journey.

In 1983, I was editing
a documentary

about the poet Langston Hughes,
and one of the sequences

was Max performing to
one of Langston Hughes' poems.

-[ Drumming ]

-Seeing Max Roach
sit behind a drum set,

he had a regal quality
about him.

It was like no wasted motion.

Just wonderful, man.

And I remember saying, "Somebody
should do a film on Max Roach."

[ Beep ]

I had never directed anything.
I was just an editor.

But in 1987, I was able to do
my first sit-down

on-camera interview with Max
at his house

up on Central Park West.

-I got the cameras on me,
and Sam is shooting,

telling us where to go,

and Juan has got
his camera on me now.

-And we shot Max
and his wonderful band M'Boom

in the rehearsal session
performing Monk's tunes.

[ Mid-tempo tune plays ]

♪♪

And unbeknownst to me,
Ben Shapiro, a fellow filmmaker,

was doing audio recordings
with Max Roach.

Ben was a drummer,

and he had been studying
Max's music and this book

that had many exercises that had
Max's approach to the drums.

-[ Drumming ]

-The drum set itself, that is
a uniquely American innovation.

-So I learned that as I was
shooting Max Roach,

Ben was doing
a long audio interview

where Max documented
his whole life story.

-I'm into the whole
political thing.

To me, everything has that
kind of meaning to it, you know?

[ Drumming ]

-Now after three decades,
we're finishing this film

to tell the story
of Max Roach.

Ready?
-Mm-hmm.

-Thank you, Maxine,

sitting down finally
to do an interview.

How come, you think,
in your opinion,

that your dad's
not as recognized today,

even in the 21st century,
as Miles Davis is?

-I think it's the path
he took...

[ Doorbell rings ]
...his life and politics.

-Hi, there. How are you doing?
-How are you?

And then maybe it's just the way
we are trained to hear music.

You know, the drummer is not
really supposed to be the lead,

and he fought against that,
and he created.

You know, his drum inventions
are just beautiful.

-[ Drumming ]

♪♪

-Max has this way of playing

that seems so effortless.

♪♪

-[ Laughs ] But when you
understand what it is,

it's quite unique and it's...

Yeah. It's deep.

[ Camera shutter clicks ]

[ Camera shutter clicks ]

♪♪

-I guess from
the very beginning,

my aspirations were
to be involved in music,

and especially this music
that we call jazz.

-The music was the salvation.
It was like sports is today.

It's like basketball.
That was it.

We'd go to sit in the theaters
on Saturdays all day

with our lunch and watch
these wonderful musicians.

-My father bought me
my first set of drums

for graduating
elementary school.

That was the only gift I wanted.

And I would set the drum up
right

so that when I got out of my bed
in the mornings to go to school,

my bed was the drum seat.

So I would get up in the morning
before I'd go to school

and actually just sit
at them drums and imagine

that I was Papa Jo
or Big Sidney Catlett.

I couldn't play that early
and couldn't wait to get home.

Now this is 13, 14.
-Right.

-So after I finished
whatever chores my family

had for me to do
and finished my homework,

just sit down
and play them drums

until it was -- until the
neighbors would come to the door

and say, "Well, Mrs. Roach,
that boy is just making

too much noise."

[ Drumming ]

♪♪

But that kind of discipline,

you become almost
a fanatic to it

after you get involved in it.

♪♪

[ Applause ]

-And so once again,
ladies and gentlemen,

we take our WMCA microphones
right down to the Royal Roost,

bringing you the new sound,

Charlie Parker
and the All-Stars --

Miles Davis on trumpet,
the great Max Roach on drums.

-We started the so-called
bebop movement.

We had a little coalition
of folks, if you will --

Dizzy and Charlie Parker,

Bud Powell, Monk, and Miles.

We all kind of clung together.

For whatever reasons,
we related to each other,

and we hated to sleep.

We would work from 9:00
till 9:00 the next morning

in two different clubs.

[ Up-tempo tune plays ]

We would then go up to Dizzy's
house on 7th Avenue

and sit down and exchange ideas

and talk about different
musicians and analyze styles.

-We were just young musicians.

Wherever the music was,
we would go.

So I'd always go to Max's house
and sit in the corner

and watch and listen,
'cause he always had

all the heavyweights there
with this new music.

So one day, Max said,
"Hey, Randy,

play one of your songs
for Charlie Parker."

Man, Sam, I was like this,

'cause Charlie Parker
was not only a great musician,

he was a powerful,
spiritual human being.

Something about him was
very sp-- I can't explain it.

♪♪

-When Miles and I were working
with Charlie Parker,

his first piece would be
his warm-up piece.

It'd be the fastest thing
we'd perform for that night.

And it would just destroy
Miles and myself.

You know, I'd be puffing
and blowing.

Miles would be, you know,
just --

it would just reduce us
to nothing.

He'd just breeze through it.

And we would practice all day
to get ready for this gentleman.

I had a lot of freedom
working with Charlie Parker.

He would just write one sheet
of music for Miles.

He'd write a trumpet part.

And he'd look over at me
and just tell me

that I had freedom to do
what I wanted to do.

I would find my own way.

[ Drumming ]

-Early bebop just had
that shock of the new.

It was just something
challenging, intimidating.

You know, people just really
couldn't figure out

where you're supposed
to pat your foot.

[ Up-tempo tune plays ]

And all of that is by design,
you know?

Rhythmically, melodically,
harmonically,

they wanted to just
get up in the music

and then just start toying
with every aspect of it.

♪♪

There was a confrontational
quality

forcing the audience to receive
them on their own terms.

And, of course,
it changed the content,

the form, the virtuosity level
of jazz forever.

-It just blew my mind
to hear music played

as well as they did
with this new flavor

and new harmonic, and the speed.

♪♪

-The first time I heard
Bird's group,

you know, it was interesting.

I didn't dislike it,

but eventually...

I got what they were doing,
you know?

Then I realized that this was
the music for our generation,

what Charlie Parker
was doing and Max.

-There was no other kind
of music for me but that.

And night after night,
Marlon Brando and myself

and a couple of others
just sit there

and listen to one great genius
after the other.

♪♪

Bebop wasn't just being sweet
and joyous

like Louis Armstrong.

It came by as
an outraged expression

of the time in which we lived,

and it found great synergy
with young Black people.

♪♪

-It was a new political
feeling among the guys.

You know,
this is right after the war,

and Bird and Max and Miles

exemplified that.

♪♪

-I'm just so glad I came up
with that kind of influence,

because they were
so progressive,

and the goal was
to get jazz musicians

so they did not
just have to entertain.

They wanted to be an artist
just like Stravinsky.

[ Down-tempo tune plays ]

♪♪

-In the late '40s,
most artists used something

before they'd perform
to give them that lift,

and marijuana --
that was the big thing,

and also cocaine, but cocaine
might be, like, New Year's Eve.

That was a rich man's drug.

Then all of a sudden,
the powers that be

put out this drug that nobody
ever heard of before.

What's the difference?

It doesn't smell,

very cheap, gets you high,
and nobody knows.

Nobody knew what it was.

And they came with this heroin,
and this thing spread.

-And so you got in that stupid
trend of everybody else,

and that's what Trane and Miles
and all of us did.

But we weren't the only ones.

Max had delved, too.

-I was in a bad way
as far as drugs

and other things were concerned.

I got in trouble,
and I got locked up.

And my mother came
to get me out of jail.

She did day work, and she
scrubbed people's floors.

And she came, she said,
"You know, son,

I got calluses on my knees."

And I thought she meant
from scrubbing floors.

So I said, "Mom, when I get
out of this nonsense

I'm in now,
I'm gonna see to it

that you don't have to
do that anymore."

She said, "No, son, I'm not
talking about working.

I'm talking about praying.

I'm praying so hard for you
to get your act together

till my knees
have calluses on them."

And so I decided then I had
to change my way of living.

I went to the hospital.

The hospital that took me in
was a Catholic hospital.

And the next morning
when I woke up,

the sister came into my bed
and said that I had a daughter.

My wife was in the hospital,
and Maxine was born.

From that day on, my life
began to straighten itself out

as far as drugs
and all the other things

that were concerned.

-Max, you were very well known

because of the many
great records you've made

with both Charlie and Dizzy.

When did you form
your own quintet?

-This is about 1953
on the West Coast,

and the great Clifford Brown,
Harold Land,

and Richie Powell
and George Morrow.

It was the first quintet

that we made some records with
that caught on,

I would say,
among the jazz public.

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

-The first time I saw Max Roach
perform was in Chicago

at a new nightclub
called the Beehive.

♪♪

It was Max and Clifford Brown,

and one of my friends leaned
over and said something.

"Max is playing so loud I can't
hear the rest of the guys."

You know,
and Clifford read his lips

and turned around
and said something to Max,

and then Max immediately
softened down.

And I regarded Max as God,
you know,

and the fact that he could
accept criticism

from someone that was younger
than he showed me

what a sensitive musician he was
in the first place, you know?

♪♪

-When I formed the group
with Clifford Brown, of course,

then I began to do things
that I would do as a leader.

I was responsible
for the direction

that the group was going
musically, et cetera.

And I had a chance then
to develop the things

I felt were important to what
I wanted to do with the music.

♪♪

♪♪

-Beautiful.

Max and Clifford Brown together?
Incredible, man.

♪♪

-Man, when we were kids
in Philadelphia

and they used to come,

and we would be there
for every note,

'cause it was Max leading

one of the most exciting
groups of our time,

and Clifford was like
a star out of nowhere.

♪♪

-Brownie was one of
the most complete musicians

I had worked with.

He could play drums,
he played piano,

and he was a good composer.

We shared an apartment together.

And I had a piano in it,
so every morning

we'd wake up to see who would
get to the piano first.

♪♪

The beginning of this story,

I had heard Clifford Brown
originally on a record.

I was in California at a place
called the Lighthouse.

I was there -- to go out there
on a six-month contract.

It was about 1951.

I'll never forget Howard Rumsey
riding me up and down

this beautiful enclave
on the Pacific Ocean

out there in California,
trying to find an apartment.

John Levine owned
the Lighthouse,

so finally Mr. Levine said,
"Listen, you know I'm Jewish,

and I had to buy up
half of the [bleep]damn town

before I could get
a place to live here."

But I'd heard Clifford
on the record with J.J. Johnson.

I'll never forget that record.

I called him up, and he said,
"Fine," you know.

He was about 22 at that time.

And he had a great sense
of humor.

He never engaged in any kind
of narcotics

or anything like that.

Never even drank, in fact.

I think one thing that he did do
that I found out about

after we had been together
about a year

was he loved to play the horses.

[ Laughter ]

Now, that was a contradiction
to such a clean living.

-At the Rouge Lounge
all this week

is one of the great jazz groups
in the country today,

and that's the Max Roach
Cliff Brown Ensemble,

and with us tonight
is one of the outstanding

jazz trumpeters
in the country today,

EmArcy recording star
Clifford Brown.

[ Up-tempo tune plays ]

♪♪

-Soft power.

Beautiful, exquisite tone,

but yet it was
this controlled power.

Unsurpassed ability
to handle that trumpet.

♪♪

-So Max got that group,

and that group really took
a hold of the public.

Then it went up another notch
when Harold Land left the group

and Sonny Rollins
took his place.

-On the tenor saxophone, the guy
who brings us all up here

the most pleasure --
Sonny Rollins.

[ Applause ]

The man behind the drum,

undoubtedly the world's
greatest -- Max Roach.

[ Applause ]

I play the trumpet.
My name is Clifford Brown.

[ Applause ]

[ Up-tempo tune plays ]

♪♪

-If you have a Clifford Brown
and a Sonny Rollins,

that's a heck of a group.

So you write accordingly,
and you give them so much

and they take it
to another level.

♪♪

-Okay. Wow. Boy, I haven't heard
that in 5 million years.

That band was really
going strong.

Max Roach Clifford Brown Band,

or Clifford Brown
Max Roach Band.

It didn't matter,
because they were that cool

about ego and all this stuff.

With them, it didn't matter.

-The relationship we had
was something like

nothing I'd ever
experienced before.

We respected and loved
each other,

and it was really
like a family.

We protected each other.

And they all listened to me
because I was the oldest.

-Everybody had their own music,

but, you know,
the concept of the band,

as far as I can see,
was Max Roach.

Max Roach was really the figure.

His drum style and everything

was what the band
was about, really.

Plus, he was a god
before I played with him.

Yeah, he was a great drummer,
but then everybody knew Max

as sort of a big celebrity
in the Black community.

I mean, it wasn't just
the music community we knew him,

but he then became
like a movie star.

-Go, Max!

-[ Drumming ]

-The guys that were top drummers
were Art Blakey and Max Roach.

So Art Blakey was more
the elemental guy.

I mean,
when you go back to Africa,

did those guys study
how to read music, anything?

No. They had it.

They have that -- that thing.

Max had that,

but he was also a more
finessed, polished drummer.

To me, his drum style
was like heaven.

Playing with Max
was like heaven.

When you play,
somebody's got to answer you.

And when they play,
you've got to answer them.

Bam, you answer me.

Oh, right, then I can do
something else.

That's why I say
Max is heavenly,

because he's feeding me.

He's making me think
of something to play.

He's playing something
that makes me want to play.

You see what I mean?

♪♪

-Max Roach Clifford Brown
Group,

recording-wise
and performance-wise,

they were all over the country.

-And we were off.
That was it.

We worked like -- we could work
52 weeks a year.

It was amazing.

Just a moment
that presented itself.

We stayed eight weeks
in St. Louis,

eight weeks in Chicago,
come out to the West Coast

and open a club
for four weeks.

We were doing very, very well

traveling up and down
this country.

And Brownie drove a car,
and I drove a car.

♪♪

-We had to stay
in some funky hotels.

And I don't like funky hotels.

Broken-down hotels which
were in the neighborhood,

Black neighborhood.

-When African-Americans came
back from the Second World War,

a lot of us expected a change in
how African people were treated.

But in the '50s,
nothing had changed.

Jim Crow, racism --
it was all there.

-Restaurants -- you could go
in restaurants

and you couldn't
sit down and eat.

You know, you could take
some out, take it out.

They'd stand there
and take the food and go out

and take it in your car
or in the bus

or whatever we had to travel in.

I went through that era.

And that's --
You know, it's horrible, man.

You know, you can't sit down
in a restaurant?

Come on. What am I gonna do?

-So it was tough being
a Black musician back then?

-Oh, definitely.

-He did tell me once that he was
stopped by the police

in New Jersey,
and the police said,

"If you're a musician,
play something for us."

[ Chuckles ] And my father
threw his drumsticks

at the police officer, and said,
"Mother[bleep] you play."

You know, and that didn't
turn out well.

But he said something
which moved me so much

about that period.

He said that if he didn't have
the drums,

he would have picked up guns.

♪♪

-We were playing in front
of people that,

whatever else
they had to go through in life,

they needed their music,

and they needed the guys
that gave it to them,

and we were those people.

It was great.
It was like an honor.

-Yeah.
-You know?

-Now it's our pleasure
to present Clifford Brown,

playing for you "Tenderly."

[ Down-tempo tune plays ]

♪♪

♪♪

-The Max Roach Clifford Brown
Group was performing

at the Showboat in Philadelphia.

That night they were gonna
get in the car

and go to Pittsburgh,
I think it was.

Max didn't go that night.

He was gonna go the next night

and meet them there
or something.

But Clifford and Richard Powell,
the piano player,

Nancy -- I didn't know
her last name,

but she and Richard
had just gotten married --

they got in the car together,

those three
got on the turnpike,

and that's when
they had the accident

on the Pennsylvania Turnpike,

and all of them died.

♪♪

-I was at a session.

We got a call that Clifford
was in a car

with Bud Powell's brother
and his girlfriend,

and it was raining.

Clifford was laying down
in the back seat,

and the truck hit them,
cut his body in half at 25.

Got killed.

Imagine what would happen
if he'd lived to 50.

Boy, he was something else.

-Gee, this is -- this is hard
for me to try to recount, man,

because it was such a...

a bad day.

It's just a lesson in life.

You learn a little bit
about life,

because Brownie was like a --
was like a little angel.

You know,
that was like an angel.

How could something
happen to Brownie?

And when that happened,
of course, everybody was...

You know, we was crying
like babies, all of us.

♪♪

-Clifford -- he was a joy
to work with.

That particular ingredient
that we find in people

that we all say,
"Well, he's a genius,"

and at such a young age
to have done so much musically

and to have
contributed so much,

it was one of the high points
of my life.

♪♪

[ Applause ]

-Max suffered.

Max suffered, man.

Max really suffered.

Max was getting --
Max had gotten to the point --

and I don't know
if this has even

ever been spoken about, but...

I wonder, shouldIspeak
about it now,

as a matter of fact,
because it's so personal.

But Max suffered.
I can say that.

He really took it hard, man.

It really took Max a while to...

to bounce back from that.

You know, it was rough.

[ Down-tempo piano tune plays ]

♪♪

-♪ When that ship began
to sail ♪

♪ It was like a bird
without a tail ♪

♪ And when that bird
began to fly ♪

♪ It was like an eagle
in the sky ♪

♪ And when the sky
began to roar ♪

♪ It was like a lion
at the door ♪

♪ And when the door
began to crack ♪

♪ 'Twas like a stick
across my back ♪

♪ And when my back
began to smart ♪

♪ It was like a penknife
in my heart ♪

♪ And when my heart ♪

♪ Began to bleed ♪

♪ 'Twas death ♪

♪ And death indeed ♪

♪♪

-When Clifford Brown died,
everything altered.

And my mother said
that after the accident,

my father was just
screaming against God.

It was a pivotal breakdown,
you know,

of all the dreams and hopes
for himself and his family.

And then soon after that,
they were divorced.

You know, there were five years
after that

that we saw our father
not often.

-After Clifford died,
that shattered him.

He would talk about how he went
into an alcohol binge,

and that life was hard.

But that anger he felt
from his head to his toes,

when it came out.

-He had a temper.

And he was able to...

funnel that temper
into his music, ultimately.

But if he wasn't doing that,
you could be -- it could be --

When you're downwind of it,
it can be devastating.

-We were scheduled to perform

at the Pep's Showbar
in Philadelphia.

[ Up-tempo tune plays ]

Max's drums were behind me,

and in the middle of my solo,
the drums stop.

So I kind of look behind me,

and Max was climbing
over the drums,

coming toward me
with a look on his face

that made me
put my trombone down

and get ready for this onslaught
that was on its way.

And then we wrestle.

And Max has been in this
psychological turmoil

that he was in.

It was something that
I couldn't fault him.

-He made missteps.

With his family,
he made missteps.

With his music,
he made missteps.

But when I look
at my father's life,

there were pivotal people
who he allowed in

to rescue him, in a way.

[ Mid-tempo tune plays ]

-♪ There's a land
of milk and honey ♪

-This beautiful young lady
is very special to me --

Abbey Lincoln,
the voice of our group.

-♪ Every day ♪

♪ It's bright and sunny ♪

-She was a star when I met her.

She was very young.

Everything seemed to
come natural for Abbey.

She was always herself.

-I didn't know who he was.

I didn't know anything
about bebop.

But, anyway, they told him
that he should come and see me,

and he did.

And he was very attentive
and wonderful.

We had a lot of fun.

And then when it came time
for him to sign the check,

I was impressed because
his concentration was something

I had never really
witnessed before.

He was suddenly gone
from where we were,

and he was concentrating
on the check.

And I noticed his hands,

and I thought,
"What a beautiful man."

♪ Spread the word,
spread the gospel ♪

♪ Let the congregation know
that a cornet ♪

♪ Was the downfall
of the walls of Jericho ♪

I was working supper clubs

and wearing this dress
[chuckles]

and bouncing on the stage

so my breasts
would jiggle a little.

It wasn't funny to me, though.

I've always taken myself
seriously,

so it wasn't easy to make
light of my life like that.

And I saw Max Roach again,
and he said to me,

"You don't have to do that.

Come here.
You don't have to do that."

And he started to teach me,

and he started
to take care of me.

All I had to do was
what he said.

[ Laughs ]

I was pretty good at that.

After a while, though,
my independent spirit

wouldn't allow it.

But he helped me.

He saved my life,

because I was lost.

I really was.

♪♪

I brought to the relationship
my experiences

as somebody who worked
in show business.

And he brought to me
the approach of the artist.

But the collaboration
was wonderful,

because for the first time,
it was a Black man and woman.

[ Mid-tempo tune plays ]

-Well, Abbey, besides being
one of the world's

most beautiful women,

is an exceptionally
talented human being.

Of course, she's not only
a fine singer,

but she's a poet
and a playwright,

and we all know
she's an actress, you see.

She has helped me a great deal

to -- to write more

and to engage myself
in the theater

on a musical level, you see.

-♪ Ain't you got no
sweet love in you ♪

♪ My, how you carry on ♪

♪ Ohhhh ♪

Strange, but having met Max

seemed to point up
things for me.

I had a chance to find out
what made me tick.

♪♪

♪ Ain't you got no
sweet love in you? ♪

♪ My, how you carry on ♪

♪ My, how you carry on ♪

♪ My, how you do ♪

♪ You do carry on ♪

♪♪

-Ethnically speaking,
you know, it was like

we looked up to them as
the shining example, you know?

-They both were so talented,

so aware of who they were,
where they were,

the conditions
that were impacting their goals.

-Max and Abbey had a chance
to make their statement,

and it was needed.

It was needed.

I'm glad it turned out

pretty successful as a record,
you know?

[ Tambourine rattling ]

-♪ Ain't but two things
on my mind ♪

♪ Driva' man and quittin' time ♪

♪ Driva' man the kind of boss ♪

♪ Ride a man and lead a horse ♪

♪ When his cat o' nine
tail fly ♪

♪ You be happy just to die ♪

♪ Run away and you'll be found ♪

♪ By his big old
red bone hound ♪

♪ Pateroller bring you back ♪

♪ Make you sorry you is Black ♪

♪ Driva' man, he made a life ♪

♪ But a Mamie ain't his wife ♪

♪ Ain't but two things
on my mind ♪

♪ Driva' man and quittin' time ♪

-I became an advocate, I guess,
politically speaking.

We thought the country
was gonna change

and things were gonna be
better in education

and labor
and equality and all this.

It was like that dream

that everybody
was hoping would happen.

So I got caught up in it
intellectually, emotionally,

and musically.

Since I had the stage
and I was recording,

if I could say something,
I said it,

whether it was through
my music or whatever,

because I have a stake in this
country as well as anybody else.

-As a young kid, I would play
with my parents' records.

I would just pull
the records out

and look at
all the amazing images,

black-and-white images

in particular,
and also sometimes abstract art,

'cause in certain record stores

where people
might have been racist,

it'd be better to put just
a piece of art on the cover

as opposed to these Black men
that are just making music.

And there was one record
in particular

that really fascinated me

and kind of disturbed me,

and this record was "We Insist!"

the Max Roach
"Freedom Now Suite."

You see these brothers
looking serious, turned,

looking at the camera,
at the viewer,

and behind them is a white guy.

Clearly, he wasn't
trying to serve them.

And what my parents
would explain to me

was that's a protest going on
at a lunch counter.

Like, we are demanding the right

to be able to come
into this establishment.

We insist on these rights.

And later when I would grow up,

I would learn that this was
what many people consider

one of America's first
official protest records.

-Idea of the whole piece
was to trace from Africa,

across the Atlantic,
in chains to the plantations,

and then the fight for freedom.

-Even today, a lot of people,
even African-Americans,

they don't want to hear
about slavery or whatever.

It's like,
that's a long time ago.

Let's just be cool and whatever.

But to celebrate our people
having gone through that

and surviving that and still
having a lot of spirit,

to create, like, a whole musical
theme and statement about that

is just brave, I think.

-I was very proud to have been
a part of that.

It was a learning experience
for me,

because up to that point,

I was more interested
in performing.

I was interested in playing
some bebop.

[ Laughs ]
And it was wonderful, you know.

It gave me purpose.

-Max was very conscious
about his Blackness

and was very much
into uniting Black Americans

with the African nation.

He felt socially responsible
to educate people

about the things that he knew.

And that's the Max that I knew.

-Yeah,
the "Freedom Now Suite"...

Yeah. I don't think --

Has anything been done
like that since?

[ Mid-tempo tune plays ]

-♪ Eeeee ♪

♪ Oooooooh ♪

♪ I-eeeeeeeeee ♪

-This particular piece,
"Tears for Johannesburg,"

was to commemorate the memory

of all those young people
who were killed in Johannesburg

during the military insurrection
on the students.

-♪ I-eeeee ♪

-And so that piece
was dedicated to them.

-Even before the Civil Rights
and Black Power movements

and Panthers and all those folks
made this connection

between movement
for justice here,

movement for justice in Africa,

you know, he just kind of made
a line in the sand,

said, "This is how my music
is gonna address

this worldwide movement
for justice."

-It resonated with us.

"Freedom Now Suite"
was our quest

for liberation in South Africa
and in Africa...

♪♪

...because there was somebody,
you know,

who really cared.

♪♪

He made us all understand
that there are no boundaries.

There are no boundaries
in the human experience

and no boundaries in music,
because Max's work is really

about how you relate
to another human being.

♪♪

So there was this interlinking
interconnection

with experience and quests.

It was our story.

♪♪

The regime saw it as a threat.

The music was subversive,

and that's why they banned it.

-The album was barred

from being further imported
into South Africa,

and it reached the national
press and became a light hit.

It almost reached the kind
of popularity

that went into pop records,
because the times warranted it.

-The apartheid government said
in the future they were gonna

keep an eye out for work
by Negro artists from America

that had the word "freedom"
in the title.

♪♪

-I just looked at a picture
the other day of the premiere

of "For Love of Ivy,"
and they're wearing dashikis.

[ Laughs ]
You know? And I was just --

Nobody was doing that.

Everybody was wearing
sharkskin suits

and, you know,
slicked-back hair.

And it was really like,
"We're Black,

we're claiming
the pride of being

who we are as natural people,

and we don't have to be
anybody else but ourselves."

-I remember one day they came
to the house,

and I was a little boy,
and I was like,

"Why does her hair
look like that?"

'Cause then all Black women
were ironing and pressing

and straightening
and perming their hair.

And later I realized
that Abbey Lincoln

had one of the first
natural hairdos,

one of the first Afros,
which would become ubiquitous.

So I always remembered, like,

man, I saw that before
the world saw that.

And then as I would grow older
and understand more,

I just realized how courageous
they were to do those things.

-I didn't see myself
as an imitation of anybody,

but an original.

And that spooked
a lot of people.

It's amazing
what'll spook people.

They said I was a rebel,
but I felt beautiful.

I felt beautiful and whole.

-When I first saw Abbey Lincoln,

Abbey came there
one Sunday afternoon.

Never forget that.

We were in this, like, room

that was like
a smallish auditorium, right,

and light was coming in
that Sunday afternoon,

and Abbey came with
that amazing natural

that she had on her head,

and she did a lecture on
who will revere the Black woman.

-I believe that the role
of the Black woman

is the same role
she's always played,

that you can only play
if you're a woman,

and that is this.

You do whatever is necessary,
you know?

That's what we've always done --
whatever came naturally.

If the situation calls for this,
you do this.

If it calls for that,
you do that.

We all know what we're doing.

[ Laughter ]

-Very well put.
[ Laughter ]

I've heard people say
we're not together.

That's a state of mind.

All I have to do is say
we're together,

he says we were together,
he says we were together,

you say when we're together,
any time,

when people say
you're not together,

it's another one
of those little phrases

that if you grasp at it,
you're going to be hung with it.

A lot of this stuff here
we're gonna have to start

weeding out, like little phrases
that tend to make us look down

on ourselves at any point,
in any way possible.

-They were originators,

and it made us originate also,
to be originators.

And you could not go back.

You could not turn around.

You had to go forward.

And you went forward with
a fast tongue, right, you know,

and the music on that tongue,
you know,

and the curses on that tongue,
you know,

and the defiance on that tongue,

but also at the same time,
the beauty.

-Very few artists
were activists at the time,

and coming to the table
with his prestige,

he brought a lot of juice.

I think he influenced a lot
of other musicians to come in

and to see how he'd protest
through Max's eyes.

-I still have a dream.

It is a dream deeply rooted
in the American dream.

I have a dream

that one day this nation
will rise up

to live out the true meaning
of its creed.

We hold these truths to be
self-evident

that all men
are created equal.

[ Cheers and applause ]

-But he ran up against
a fierce enemy.

[ Dogs barking,
people shouting ]

And certainly those of us
who spoke out

against injustice
became the target.

[ Woman gasps,
men shouting ]

[ Siren wailing ]

-Max is really in the forefront
of this critique of America.

People like Fanon and
Richard Wright and Malcolm X

and Martin Luther King all paid,
you know, a huge price for it.

-You know, these men came along
at a time

when it was real rough,
you know,

andreallyrough
for the Black man.

And, um...

they fought.

They fought.

-I took it to a degree
where everything I wrote

and recorded had to do
with the movement.

[ Mid-tempo tune plays ]

-♪ Members, don't get weary ♪

♪ Members, don't get weary ♪

♪ Members, don't get weary ♪

Even in my public performances,

I chose to deal
with that kind of music

and that kind of attitude,
and whenever I did an interview,

the same thing prevailed.

My public performances were
curtailed because people said,

"Well, if you hire Max Roach,
he's gonna make a speech."

This wasn't entirely true,
but I would announce

that this piece is dedicated
to Marcus Garvey,

and if you didn't know
who Marcus Garvey was,

since we were working downtown,

I would give a short history
of Garvey.

Well, that's too much.

So they'd say, "Well, Max,
just come in and play music.

You don't have to talk."

-♪ There's a land
of milk and honey ♪

♪ Up the river
they call the Nile ♪

-So how I really did subsist
was to work with the groups

that were doing things
like that, like the NAACP.

They premiered
the "Freedom Now Suite."

I would perform at rallies
from town hall

all the way up
to the armory uptown.

Malcolm X, the Muslims
would use the entertainment

to bring people in
so that they could talk

about the sociopolitical
situation

that existed in
the United States of America.

-Making political statements
in jazz music

was definitely on the radar
of the government.

The FBI was banning,
blackballing.

J. Edgar Hoover was known
to send the feds

to gigs to revoke
your musician's license away

so that you couldn't
make a living.

-One time I went to meet him,

and I was looking for him
and looking for him,

and I couldn't find him.

And I saw a man,
and he had a newspaper up,

but it was, like, covered,
you know,

like you see in the movies,
and I said,

"Well, that's the only person
I haven't looked at."

I saw the hands were brown,
so I go around,

and he's down like this,
and I said, "Max."

He said, "Sit down!
Sit down. Sit down.

They're watching me.
They're watching me.

Just sit. Sit.
I just wanted to see you.

I wanted to see
how you're doing."

And I was like, "I'm okay,"
but you know --

and he kept the paper up,
and so finally I was like,

"Max, you got to
put the paper down."

I said, "I don't think
anybody's here," you know.

-It was painful, frightening,
threatening.

It was taxing on him...

economically, certainly,

emotionally.

I remember one time
Abbey saying to me, quietly,

"I don't want
to scream anymore."

You know?

-[ Drumming ]

-♪ Ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah,
ahhhhhhh! ♪

♪ Ahhhh ♪

♪ Ahhhhhhh ♪

-I don't know the true dynamics

of the end of
Abbey and Dad's relationship,

and he would never
talk about it.

But from hindsight,
I see that

his sometimes rages
wore her down.

You know, and in terms of
the rage coming out of him,

I don't see how he could have

navigated through his life
without it

in a society
that was against you

politically,
economically, and socially.

And his expression of it
being hard out there --

it's hard out there --

it was something that drove him

to the end of his life.

-The record companies
and the industry in general

were putting a lot
of pressure on him

to do what Miles did
with "Bitches Brew,"

to go electronic,
and he refused.

-There were some musicians
at that time

who would say to me,
"Forget about all of that."

Why not just opt for making
a lot of money

and I could buy my freedom?

Of course,
I didn't believe that.

But I remember, when I did my
last album for Atlantic Records,

I was approached
by the brass there,

and they said, "You know, Max,
you know,

you're the number-one this
and you're number-one that.

You know, you should be rich."

And I said, "Yeah," you know.

"Why not, you know?
I could go for that."

And they said, "Well, all you
have to do is do material

that's familiar
or coattail on hit tunes."

They said, you know, "When
people are familiar with things,

they accept them
much more readily

than they would with
a lot of original material.

New material, that is."

So I thought about it,
and I said,

"Ah, the Negro spiritual."

-He says, "Okay,
I'll do something popular.

I'll do a gospel album."
[ Laughs ]

So he did
"Lift Every Voice and Sing."

[ Mid-tempo tune plays ]

[ Choir vocalizing ]

It was a unique combination
of jazz quartet

and gospel choir.

[ Choir vocalizing ]

♪♪

I love that album.

-You know, with the church,
jazz was forbidden.

It was my desire to bring
these two forces together.

It's the kind of material I use
with something

like "Singing with a Sword
in my Hand,"

"Were You There When
They Crucified My Lord,"

which, to me, was a spiritual

that was a testament
to a lynching.

And we used the gospel choir
and jazz musicians

who improvised
all through the arrangements.

-♪ Let the people go ♪

♪ Let the people go ♪

-I dedicated each song to people

like Martin Luther King,
Malcolm X, Medgar Evers.

After the record came out,
I called up the brass

and asked them
what they thought of it,

and there was a loud silence
on the other end of the phone.

But that was the last one
I recorded

for a major label at that time.

-Here he was --
he had a new wife, Janus,

and twin infant daughters,

and I think for a while
it was hard.

He had become depressed,
you know,

felt like
a part of his life had ended.

-He asked me to replace Abbey,

and we had a show in Detroit.

All of a sudden,
he started cursing me out

on stage in front of the public,

calling me the B-word, and he
said, "Get off the stage,"

you know,
"Just get off the stage."

I mean, just, it was crazy.

So I went back to the hotel.
I was in tears.

And he came into the room
and he said, "I'm sorry.

I thought you were Abbey.
You look like Abbey."

-I remember one time
he went through the house

and broke every drumstick
in the house,

even on the little doll --
little African statues.

He would pull out the little
ivory drumsticks and snap them.

So when the offer
came in for him

to take a professorship
up at UMass, he took it.

-I went up there because
the students demanded it,

during the period
when Black students

were asking for more faculty

and they were seizing the
campuses and things like this.

It grew out of this whole
'60s movement.

When the students demanded it,
the university reached out.

Of all the schools that showed
an interest,

UMass was the closest
to New York City,

and I felt that I could still do
the things I wanted to do,

so I had to move
my family there,

and that was good for me,
I thought.

-Yeah, this is
the house in Amherst.

Wow. Um...

Wow. Look at us.

I have never seen this.

That's me.
-That's you?

-I think that's me.

Oh, my goodness.

-He was a responsible father,

and he understood
that he had to provide

for himself and for his family.

And it was a way to also connect
with students.

We'd have young, you know,
aspiring musicians

come over to the house.

He was always
mentoring somebody.

-I began to experiment
with the students.

You had a 60-voice choir.

♪♪

You had musicians
in the music department,

and we would begin
to collaborate on doing

large orchestral works
that spotlighted percussion

and improvised instrumentalists,
so that was a good period for me

because it was good
for experimenting.

-I was teaching,

and I got arrested
with my students, right?

I came to find out
that I wasn't being rehired,

so that's why I went to Amherst.

And we got up
to Amherst College.

Man, it is 9:00 a.m.
in the morning,

and Max looked like he was

just gotten out of
"Gentlemen's Quarterly," right?

He had this hat
sitting acey-deucey,

this leather coat -- jacket on,

this turtleneck sweater on.

But Max came over and said,

"We heard you were
coming up here.

Welcome.
Now you'll be okay."

-There was a community
of Black artists, intellectuals,

scholars that he was
very closely connected to.

But, you know, he was still
Max Roach at that time.

He still wanted to create.
He still wanted to perform.

That's who he was.

[ Applause ]

-[ Drumming ]

♪♪

I began to do these drum solos,
concerts with drum solos.

You know, the composers and all,
they'd say,

"Well, you're just doing
a solo with drums."

And I'd say,
"Yes, that's what it is."

"You mean to tell me
you're gonna play an hour

and a half with drums?"

"Yes."

♪♪

One guy says, "Man, I heard
this piece, Max,

but it didn't sound
like music to me."

And I say, "Well, in the sense
of this area of music,

when you talk about didn't sound
like Charlie Parker

or Duke Ellington
or Mozart or Bach

or somebody like that,
you're right.

But I'm organizing sounds now,

and sound is not restricted

to any particular group
of instruments.

This world of sound is
infinite."

♪♪

[ Applause ]

♪♪

I wanted to put it all together
logically

and create a structure

and a piece of sound
architecture that makes sense,

and phrases that are rhythmic

and that come out
of the drum set itself.

And M'Boom, of course,
uses all those properties.

[ Tapping ]

♪♪

[ Cymbals playing ]

-M'Boom came about
because I had this group

of percussion instruments
in my studio.

So people like Max Roach
and Joe Chambers

would come up there
to practice.

We were all there,
and it was Max's idea.

After he finished rehearsing,
we sat down.

He said, "I'm thinking about
starting a percussion ensemble."

-I wanted to hear and create
something different

but would still be
in the continuum

of what Duke Ellington
and Charlie Parker

and Count Basie visualized,

but only with
percussion instruments.

-At that time,
percussion ensembles

were all strictly, like,
snare drums and military.

And Max heard something
that was more African.

[ Mid-tempo tune plays ]

♪♪

-The music of Africa
is very powerful.

We were taken away
from Mother Africa,

but whether we were taken
to Brazil or Cuba or Haiti

or Mississippi or Georgia,

we approached life
with what Duke says,

"the African pulse,"
in our music.

♪♪

♪♪

-We decided we could just
do anything we wanted.

It doesn't sound like the
African percussion ensembles.

It doesn't sound like the
European percussion ensembles.

It doesn't sound like Kodo,

the Japanese percussion
ensembles.

We could come up with our own
musical personality.

♪♪

[ Laughter ]

-It's a group made of drummers.

That's my worst nightmare.

[ Laughs ]

You know, it's just weird.

You know how many drummers
call me up

to like,
"Yo, man, let's come over,

let's shed together"?

And I was like, "Ugh.
This is soup for one. No."

Like, for guitarists
to play together,

for horn sections to play
together, for pianists,

I always feel that there's
a natural give and take,

but with drumming, it's such --

it's such a responsibility,
because someone's gonna

have to be the alpha
in the situation.

Someone's gonna have to
determine the meter.

Someone's gonna have to
determine the volume,

the level, the dynamics.

It's just, whew!

How?

-The fact that we had Max Roach,

whom we all idolized,

so we accepted him
and his domination.

And, of course,
our egos weren't as big,

but we would have arguments.

There was one time we were
rehearsing at my studio,

and Max and Joe Chambers
squared off.

Joe was the only one
who had the height, the stature,

and the ego to challenge Max.

And Max said, "Well,
blah-blah-blah-blah-blah,"

and Joe said, "Oh, yeah?
Well, come on.

We're gonna walk outside
and settle this."

And they got together
and they both marched out,

and everybody sat there
and waited for five minutes,

and then they both came in
smiling and laughing together.

[ Up-tempo tune plays ]

-Max was great with me.
He loved me.

And everybody was scared of him.

And whatever I did,
it made him laugh,

and we had fun,
and da, da, da.

I did my job, and he used
to call me Ramon,

and he would teach me, right?

He would teach me the mallets,
teach me the chimes.

"I want you to do this, Ray."

And I would learn it,
and that's it.

-We realized that we were going
to have to create this music,

so every one of us sat down

and composed a percussion
ensemble piece

that involved
what we could do.

[ All whistling ]

We did a whole piece
which described

the elements of a storm,
from drizzling rain...

[ Saw warbling ]

...through a thunderstorm
and lightning.

[ All whistling ]

[ Saw warbling ]

[ Whistling continues ]

This was one of the first
abstract pieces that we did

that, you know,
everybody just bought into.

[ Whistling ]
[ Bells chiming ]

-He would give us an idea,
and we would hit on that,

and then we would build on it.

Everybody would build on it.

And that was real.
That's jazz. That's music.

♪♪

-After a year and a half
of rehearsing one day a week,

Max got an endorsement

from the Ludwig Drum Company...
[ Applause ]

...and at that point, arranged
our first European tour.

[ All slapping ]

That kind of established us
as an entity,

and we just kept growing
and kept performing.

[ Slapping continues ]

-[ Drumming ]

♪♪

-I would say that of all of
the Max Roach projects --

this includes the quintet,
the Clifford Brown project,

all of the stuff
with Abbey Lincoln,

his solo stuff --
the M'Boom project

is probably
his most adventurous.

[ Cheers and applause ]

-Max was one of the people
redefining what the music

is gonna be in every decade
that he was active.

He was never resting on his
laurels, and he could have.

-A lot of bebop purists want Max

and people that made that great
music over 50 years ago,

they want those guys to continue
to play the same thing.

And Max and those guys
were always about that new

and that next thing.

[ Record scratching ]

-[ Drumming ]

-Right about now, my man
with the fresh approach,

none other than
the maestro Max Roach.

Check, check, check,
check it out.

Rock, rock. Yeah.

-The musical director
at The Kitchen,

a performance art space
in New York,

had a meeting with Max Roach,

and the idea came,
what about a performance?

-Max.
-This is still early '80s.

-Yeah, Max.

-[ Drumming ]

♪♪

-I was at that performance
with Fab 5 Freddy

and the DJs
at The Kitchen, yeah.

Max was there with his suit,
you know, debonair,

looking like Max Roach,
you know?

It's like, oh, new drum music
is being made in the culture?

Well, of course Max Roach
is here.

The most natural thing
in the world.

In some ways he was kind of
this living, totemic

art piece, art object.

-[ Rapping ]
♪ I pump the mic ♪

-When the rap craze came,

it was another thing
that excited me,

because I said,
"Now, this is the same thing

I had been working on
all these years."

Because what they did
was just use rhythm

without using the rules
of music theory.

So when my peers say,
"Well, Max, you know

you're dealing with these rap--
what, that's not music,"

you know, and I say,
"Well, it may not be music,

but it's part of the world
of sound that music is part of."

And it created something
that was very valid for me.

-♪ Dyno-mite, dyno-mite,
dyno-mite ♪

-He got the anarchic, disruptive
aspects of their music.

And it just gives you a sense
of, really,

his connection to Blackness.

-Of course my dad's like, "Look,
Max Roach is on television."

Like, he didn't care
what else was going on.

But I was kind of looking
at my dad like, "Wait a minute.

You realize, like,

this is a fusion collaboration
between the music I like

that you detest
and the music..."

Like, this can work.

-We thank you very much.
[ Applause ]

Max, Fab 5 Freddy.
See you later.

-The fact that he saw
that vision

before it became cool
in the early '90s

for you to mix your hip-hop
and your jazz together

shows, like, how ahead
of the curve he was.

-Now, I've seen you do
"The Drum Also Waltzes."

Can you give
a little bit of that?

-Oh, sure, sure, sure.
Absolutely.

So it's...

[ Drumming ]

♪♪

-[ Drumming ]

♪♪

-I remember he'd look
at the drum kit and he'd say,

"I'm just beginning
to master this."

And he was in his 70s then.

♪♪

-Do you have the time...
-The unrest that he had

always propelled him,
particularly in the later years,

as long as he could focus
on what was ahead

and not duplicate anything.

The foray into ballet

and playing drums with
a reading of Toni Morrison --

those are some of the things
that he took his instrument

and his art to

and his desire
to exceed his own boundaries.

[ Down-tempo tune plays ]

♪♪

-Max Roach, y'all!

-[ Drumming ]

-After a while, you expected
to see Max Roach

pop up in all these places

and just really showcase
his musicianship

in so many different contexts.

♪♪

[ Up-tempo tune plays ]

♪♪

-You know, I heard -- and
I don't know if this is true,

but I heard that, you know,
the older you get,

the more you are like yourself
when you were younger.

-Go ahead.
Whatever you do is good.

-[ Drumming ]

All right.
Now you go over here, Joe.

-So, you know,
there's so many stories

out there about his temper,

but later in life,
he was so gentle.

-That's all right.
Go ahead.

Oh, she's bashful.

[ Laughter ]

I'm gonna do a piece
called "Mop Mop."

-"Mop Mop."

-Yeah. I'm gonna play
on the drums...

♪ Delia-da-da,
delia-da-da, delia-da-da-da ♪

Clap, clap.

♪ Delia-da-da,
delia-da-da, delia-da-da-da ♪

[ Children clapping ]

Very, very good.
Let me try it on the drums here.

[ Drumming ]

[ Children clapping ]

[ Drumming ]

[ Children clapping ]

[ Drumming ]

♪♪

[ Children clapping ]

My artistic efforts is to show

that we can be the strongest
and most creative people

instrumentally that there is.

And, in fact, if I had
never played music,

I'd take pride in knowing that

Black folks are the greatest
musicians in the world

by way of Charlie Parker
and Elvin Jones

and Kenny Clarke
and Lester Young, et cetera.

[ Down-tempo tune plays ]

♪♪

-At Lincoln Center,
they had inductee night

for the Jazz Hall of Fame.

He was in a wheelchair
at that time,

but he was talking,
everything.

He was, you know,
joking around about stuff,

you know, as Max was wont to do.

They put Max and I
in the same dressing room.

All his children were there,
so we talked, and he was cool.

But that's the last time
I saw him, you know.

And...

it was great, you know?

♪♪

-Thousands of people gathered

at Riverside Church
in New York on Friday

for the funeral of
the legendary drummer,

educator,
and activist Max Roach.

Maya Angelou, Amiri Baraka,
Sonia Sanchez,

and others credited Roach

with helping to revolutionize
the sound of jazz

and for playing a prominent role
in the struggle

for Black liberation
at home and in Africa.

-I have come to sing
a song of praise

to the courage
of Black men in general

and Max Roach in particular.

It is such a wonderful thing
to look

at these friends and family,

to see great names here,

great artists
who loved Max Roach

because he had the courage
to love us.

And so I'm glad to say
we had him.

We are bigger and better
and stronger

because Max Roach
was my brother.

[ Applause ]

-[ Drumming ]

♪♪

-You know, it's that kind of
love that those giants gave us.

They actually said,
"We love you," you know?

"We're gonna make sure
you survive.

We're gonna give you music
that will make you survive.

You know,
it will make you get out

into the streets of America

and challenge everything
and call people mother[bleep]

you know, who need to be
called mother[bleep] right?"

That was Max.

You know,
Max did that for all of us.

♪♪

-Max Roach didn't set out
to become an icon of history.

He did what he did 'cause he
felt it was his responsibility.

He wasn't trying to be anything.
He was already it.

♪♪