All language subtitles for Laura Kuenssberg State of Chaos S01E03 Johnson Truss

This place is meant to be in charge.

But with five Prime Ministers in
six years, it hasn't felt that way.

The whole operation at Number 10
was actually broken down.

What's the answer?

We became a laughing stock
of the world.

An utter catastrophic disaster.

In this series, we're trying
to work out what happened

to our political system.

I think we lost our minds.

I don't know a single MP
who didn't get a death threat.

The party that likes to believe
it's born to rule has indulged

in an epic drama
with no lasting heroes.

I have been a systematic plotter
who has tried to remove

the Prime Minister.

You are not children
in the playground.

You are legislators.

I'm Laura Kuenssberg and I was
the BBC's political editor

for nearly seven years.

It was my job to make sense
of what on earth was going on,

or at least to try, as we all lived
through a norm-busting,

convention-defying moment
of history.

Was Liz Truss a good Prime Minister?

She could have been
a good Prime Minister.

No! I'm really certain
about that one.

In this episode, peak chaos as
two prime ministers are toppled

in just 15 weeks.

Thank you all very much.

Thank you.

First, it's over Boris Johnson's
relationship with the truth.

Should we cancel Christmas parties?

I knew that someone at Number 10
has been lying again.

Then Liz Truss takes on
the establishment...

I get things done in government
and I don't just talk, I act.

..and wreaks economic
and political havoc.

I said to her, "We can't go
helter skelter,

"we've got to slow things down."

Months in the making, working
with insiders who've never

spoken publicly before,

we go behind the scenes
to Westminster's real cast list.

The civil servants, the ministers
and the political advisers

now free to speak.

Cautiousness, even boringness.

All of that looked as though
it was gone.

Just how close did our political
system come to falling apart?

And will it ever be the same again?

It is the end of normal.

NEWS READER: Reports of explosions
in the Ukrainian capital

as Vladimir Putin announces
a special military operation...

Good morning from Kyiv,
the capital of Ukraine,

a city, a country under fire.

EXPLOSIONS

All the advice was that at best,
Zelensky had probably two weeks,

maybe three days.

Boris was the first leader in Nato
to say, No, we've got to help."

Conflict in the Ukraine played
to Boris's greatest strengths.

President Zelensky needed someone
in the West with the authority

and the credibility that comes
from being a G7 economy,

a member of the Security Council
of the United Nations,

and in Boris, he not only found
somebody who became

a very, very close confidant
and a very intimate confidant,

but the best cheerleader
he could have had.

How are you? You know how I am.
How are you?

Boris Johnson, a leader
more interested in the grand sweep

of ideas than pulling levers
in Whitehall.

He seized this moment to walk
on the world stage.

But he couldn't use it to shake off
what was going on back home.

It was mad, you know, the week
when things went sour

was arguably the best week of
his leadership, where he'd been

to G7 summit, dominating the debate,
bringing allies together,

a sense of purpose on the Ukraine
immense and then he flies back

and some drunken MP
has behaved appallingly

and everything comes
crashing down.

Allegations emerged that
Boris Johnson's Deputy Chief Whip

and ally, Chris Pincher,
had groped two men.

He quit his job in government,

but the Prime Minister
didn't kick him out as an MP.

There was a clamour to know
how far Boris Johnson would go

to protect his coterie.

How much did he even care
about bad behaviour?

What is it about Boris Johnson
that actually he seems to actively,

you know, tolerate mistakes and what
appears to be bad behaviour

by other people around him?

I don't know, I mean, he's obviously
not keen on sacking people,

is he, Boris Johnson?
He didn't sack Chris Pincher

when he got the opportunity.

And his calculation is often,
"I'm only really going to sack

"someone if they are costing me."

I think he's very trusting,
and sometimes he's too trusting.

And he's very loyal,
and sometimes he's too loyal.

And he's also kind,
and sometimes too kind.

But I think for many of us,
that's why we like him.

In summer 2019, the civil servant
in charge at the Foreign Office,

where Pincher then worked, was
approached about his behaviour.

And you did then open
a formal investigation,

so can you tell us about that?
Take us inside what happened?

A group of colleagues coming
to complain about a minister's

behaviour is unusual, I would say
unique in my time

as permanent secretary.

So it was a memorable meeting.

The story that they told
was compelling.

So I immediately got in touch with
the Propriety and Ethics Team

in the Cabinet Office
and they helped us

run an investigation.

So you did at that point open
a formal investigation,

to be crystal clear
about what happened?

There was a formal investigation
into Chris Pincher's behaviour, yes.

I engaged at a senior level

and that senior level
briefed the Prime Minister.

I was in the room when Boris asked
Chris Pincher to come back

into the whip's office.

He took the job.

Civil servants, who, in any
reshuffle are then charged

with checking whether there's
any reason that person

cannot be appointed,

gave the green light for that
appointment to go ahead.

So in a scenario like that, I think
a Prime Minister is entitled

to feel that due process
has been followed.

If your civil servants in charge
of Propriety and Ethics

say there's no objection to
appointing him, then that's it.

When you heard the Government say
there'd never been any red flags

about his behaviour,
what did you think?

I knew that was not true.

And it fell to me as the days went
by that the Number 10 line

kept developing.

But in ways which were
not truthful, not complete.

There are different versions
in the papers this morning,

the Mail on Sunday, which has a
quote, it said, "Boris Johnson said

"to his aides in 2020 -
he's handsy, that's the problem,

"Pincher by name,
pincher by nature."

Did you ask about that
specific quote?

It's on the front pages
of the papers today.

No, I didn't, I've been...

I've been at another news studio
before coming here today.

The final straw for me was watching
Therese Coffey,

and she was clearly feeling
the strain of having to trot out

lines that she had been instructed
to use.

And they were lies.

Did the Prime Minister know that
there were allegations of sexual

misconduct against Chris Pincher
when he appointed him

as Deputy Chief Whip?

To the best of my understanding,
the Prime Minister has not been

aware of specific allegations
against Chris Pincher,

as people will know...

And so I got in touch
with the Foreign Office,

the Cabinet Office in Number 10
and said, "I am telling you

"that the lines that the Government
is using are wrong,

"misleading,
deliberately misleading.

"This is important,
the truth is important."

I think that if you are standing
in front of a crest

or you have that on your headed
notepaper, or you are speaking

from the Government, it's so
important that what you say is true.

And if you say something,
accidentally or inadvertently,

or ill advisedly, that's not true,
that it is corrected.

And I do think that is the thing

that we have got a bit far away
from in the last few years.

On the Monday, the lines changed
again and they were still

a load of rubbish.

This row goes to something
absolutely fundamental -

can the country trust
the Prime Minister?

What was in your mind as you started
to tell your story?

The facts were in my mind
and I felt I had to speak.

Lord McDonald is on the line,
good morning to you.

Good morning, Justin.

You could have done this
behind the scenes.

Why have you been so public
about it?

Number 10 have had five full days
to get the story correct,

and that has still not happened.

I think on the Tuesday, on the day,
yes, that's right,

because we had a Cabinet meeting
on that morning,

and before the Cabinet meeting,
this news came out

from Simon McDonald.

I know Simon McDonald, I think
he's a man of full integrity.

And I knew that someone at
Number 10 has been lying again.

..in the last few minutes, news that
the Health Secretary, Sajid Javid,

has just resigned with a letter
to the Prime Minister,

which our political correspondent,
Jonathan Blake...

At this point, I just thought
the Prime Minister has completely

changed his team at Number 10,
the same things

are going on all over again.

I'm just going to interrupt you.

Rishi Sunak has just announced
his resignation as well.

The right thing to do when you lose
confidence is to be honest

and go to your boss and just
tell him you can't serve any more.

The pubic rightly expect
a government

to be conducted properly.

Saj at least had the courtesy
to go and see Boris and tell him

face-to-face that he was
walking out.

Rishi didn't even let him know.

We discovered, I think,
from the news or maybe even

from Twitter, I can't remember.

And that for Boris
was very offensive.

Just minutes before the Chancellor
and Health Secretary resigned,

Johnson had at last admitted
he was aware

of the 2019 investigation
into Pincher's behaviour,

saying it had been resolved
back then.

But it was too late.

Good evening, I'm just going to
spend some time with my family.

The match had been lit
on the pent-up frustration

over Downing Street's attitude
to the truth.

The failure to come clean
over Pincher revealed

the burning unhappiness
for all to see.

How would you describe
Boris Johnson's overall attitude

to the truth?

Unusual.

I think...

Yeah, unusual.

Does he lie? Being a politician.

Does he lie?

I think that's...

..a matter of public record.

I think he views the world
through a lens

of his own self-aggrandisement
and I'm not alone in this view.

I speak to many people, including
some who have never expressed

any negative views
about Boris Johnson publicly,

but privately recognise somebody

who is far too self-indulgent
and self-focused

to really do the job of a minister,
let alone the job of Prime Minister.

I think he is able to absolutely
believe his version of the truth,

whether at the time
or retrospectively.

And he's able to really believe it.

So Boris Johnson can lie
while also lying to himself

that he's not lying?

Yeah.

How important is the truth
to you, Prime Minister?

Very important, Bob.

And accuracy of language
and statement?

Also very important,
very, very important.

The roots of the downfall
had been planted

long before the Pincher scandal,
when Number 10 struggled

to get its story straight over
the most embarrassing allegations.

The first I heard about parties
was when I saw news reports,

which was in the Daily Mirror,
I think.

I was told and the whole
Government was told

that this is all nonsense, this is
rubbish, just ignore this.

And I thought maybe actually
I could benefit the doubt.

Maybe it's just the Daily Mirror
exaggerating and all of that.

What I can tell
the right honourable gentleman

is that... is that all guidance
was followed completely...

All the guidelines were observed,
continue to be observed.

And what I can also tell you is that
we're getting on with the job

as we have been throughout.

But then for me, things changed
around the parties when I saw

that video like everyone else.

I think ITV got hold of this video
of Allegra Stratton in a sort of

mock press conference.

Would the Prime Minister condone
having a Christmas party?

What's the answer?

I don't know...

I thought, why would you ask
such a question in a mock press

conference unless someone in
that room knew something?

I was Health Secretary, obviously,
I was going to get asked

about this video.

I couldn't get answers that evening
from anyone at Number 10.

The next day I was told
at the highest levels

that they've investigated this
and that there were no parties

at any time, anywhere in Downing
Street, no illegal gatherings,

and no rules were broken
at any time.

I was given that assurance.

I have been repeatedly assured
since these allegations emerged

that there was no party...

and that... and that no
Covid rules were broken.

And that is what I have been
repeatedly assured.

After weeks of defending themselves
from claims of rule breaking

and parties during the pandemic,
the mentality inside Number 10

seemed to be more or less
what it always had been -

deny, double down, brazen it out
when things got rough.

Boris Johnson's attitude
to the truth had always

been flexible, to put it mildly.

And after all,
he'd made it this far.

So his team wondered, why would
this time have to be any different?

But some who later received
police fines for attending events

questioned that approach.

I still don't understand why,
when these stories were first

mentioned, there wasn't an attempt
to say, "Absolutely, you're right,

"we were all working in an entirely
different world to the rest of you.

"And I can see that that looks
extraordinary now.

"And we made some stupid mistakes
and we're very sorry."

I don't really understand
the kind of failure to do that.

And it troubles me that it's all
part of this kind of not actually

just telling the truth and being
honest about what has happened.

Do you think it is conceivable
that Boris Johnson

didn't know what was going on?

No, because he was at many of them.

I don't think that there was
an explicit,

"You should go nuts
and do what you want to do."

But I don't think there was a fear
that he would be angry

about it if anything was going on,
in the way that I think...

..Theresa May would have...

..really been cross.

Ultimately, the culture
is set at the top.

The buck does stop with the leader
of the organisation.

His career has been defined
by having a casual approach

to breaking the rules, in fact,
that's generally worked for him.

But that would not wash

when details of parties
in Number 10 on the eve

of the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral
were revealed.

Rules had been broken.

The Queen mourned alone.

With something like
the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral,

the party that was taking place
the night before,

there was nothing to defend
and that was just disgraceful.

And I think you've got to say that
when these things are happening.

With having to apologise
to the Queen about those parties

the night before she put her husband
of over 70 years,

she laid him to rest, was that
a moment of shame for you?

I deeply and bitterly regret
that that happened.

And I can only...

..renew my apologies.

In January, February 2022,
he still had enough goodwill

to pull himself out of
this deteriorating situation.

And I found it very surprising

that he didn't do that.

He could have said,
"Yes, things have...

"I've done something wrong, I've
not done everything right so far.

"But now, we really are going
to have the highest standards."

Boris Johnson was not
really correcting

the problems in government.

So that is in itself a cultural
problem of not being open

to the true situation, not really
picking up the criticism.

A tragedy, really, when Boris won
such a majority and had such

an ability to communicate
with the country.

We have won votes and the trust
of people who have never

voted Conservative before.

Those people want change.

We cannot, must not...

must not let them down.

Boris Johnson really let it slide
away through being unable to...

champion the highest standards
of governance.

Which it's crucial
for a Prime Minister to do.

Whatever Chris Pincher did or didn't
do was overtaken by a profound

anguish about Boris Johnson's
whole approach.

Did he care about standards
of behaviour at all?

Was he running a government
or a scandal survival unit?

Dozens of ministers ran
for the door after Sajid Javid

and Rishi Sunak quit.

Partygate had shaken the faith
of the Tory Party in Boris Johnson.

The Pincher scandal
stripped away what was left.

I got a call from Number 10

to say, "The Prime Minister
wants to see you."

Both Rishi Sunak and Sajid Javid
attacked Mr Johnson's leadership

and integrity,
but he remained defiant,

appointing Nadhim Zahawi
as Chancellor....

Boris opened by saying
how frustrated

he was that we need to focus
on economic recovery.

"You're an accomplished businessman.

"I think you can lead the Treasury
and really deliver."

And I said, of course, "Prime
Minister, it would be a privilege

"to serve and I will do my best."

Boris Johnson might have hoped
the new Chancellor could steady

the ship, but it was
an impossible task.

Events very quickly snowballed.

We were getting a resignation
every half an hour.

Mr Zahawi, forgive me
interrupting you. Yes.

As you were saying
that sentence... Yes.

..the man who came on this programme
on Monday morning to defend

the Prime Minister
has just resigned,

Will Quince, the Education Minister,
a minister in the department

you left yesterday.

It's over, Mr Zahawi, isn't it?

What were those last couple
of days like?

He was a Prime Minister with
a mandate, democratically voted for

by the people, and knowing
what others were trying to do

to thwart that mandate
was quite difficult for me.

I was in regular contact
with the Prime Minister

amidst the drama of those last
sort of 24 to 48 hours.

But just making clear to Boris
that he had my personal loyalty,

that I felt that notwithstanding
that mistakes had been made,

that he was the best person to lead
the party and the country,

and that for as long as he chose
to fight on, I would support him.

My experience of Boris during
that day was he was calm.

Unbelievably calm.

During the course of the day,
we all met in one of the rooms

with a whiteboard
to run through various names.

And then we tried to put together
a government, by which stage,

various members of the Cabinet
started to arrive,

wanting to see the Prime Minister.

The Prime Minister asked to see
each one of us individually,

and I was the first
to go in and see him.

He looked pretty tired
and probably frustrated.

He said, "How's it going?" I said,
"Look, the work is going well,

"but I'm not here
to talk about that.

"I'm here to say to you
that I think...

"..we're going to struggle
to form a government

"and the herd are stampeding.

"It breaks my heart
to see you go through this."

He said, "Can't we fix it?"

He was still in
that mood to fight on.

I went to see Boris Johnson
at Number 10.

He made it very clear that it was
very stupid of people

to want to lose such a successful
leader who led us

to a very successful
general election.

By now, 39 ministers had quit.

Extraordinary!

A record collapse.

But having made a career
of surviving scandal,

Johnson was still trying to dig in,
even sacking his old frenemy,

Michael Gove,
after he'd told him to quit.

Far from restoring credibility,
though,

it just gave him
another post to fill.

One of Boris's closest allies
got in contact to ask

whether I would take the role of
Secretary of State for Levelling Up.

And I declined on the basis
that I didn't really want

to take on what was a huge job,

my first job heading up a government
department against a backdrop

of such massive uncertainty.

Clearly, things were moving
to a denouement.

Late in Number 10,
a final truth was emerging

that even Boris Johnson
could not avoid.

His time in the highest office in
the land was coming to an end.

We carried on until whatever
time it was,

I can't quite remember what time.

Looking at what was left
and positions to be put.

And by the end of the day,
it was clear to all of us

that were left that we were running
out of road.

So, Thursday morning came.

I didn't sleep well at all,
to be perfectly honest,

and was constantly looking
at Twitter to see who was next.

As I'm walking to the train
station, an email popped up.

It was a version of a speech
that Boris had written,

and I think the opening lines
were effectively...

..it's, it's over.

Good afternoon, everybody.

Good afternoon.

APPLAUSE

Thank you, Thank you.

It is clearly now the will

of the Parliamentary
Conservative Party

that there should be
a new leader of that party,

and therefore a new Prime Minister.

He just expected so much of
the parliamentary party to forgive

every indiscretion, every outburst,
every breaking of convention,

just... You know?

And then when he needed
the parliamentary party, "Enough.

"No, I'm sorry, we can't do
this any more."

I know that there will be many
people who are relieved and perhaps

quite a few who will also
be disappointed.

And I want you to know how sad I am
to be giving up the best job

in the world.

But them's the breaks.

I think people were out
to undermine him.

But every leader I've known,

there have been people
out to undermine them.

Thank you all very much.

Thank you.

It felt sad, yes, absolutely sad.

But also, it felt like perhaps
there's some element of closure

to this, that actually all
the sort of agony and the pain

of the last two days has ended.

Was Boris Johnson
a good Prime Minister?

Erm...

I think he was right
for a certain stage.

I don't think Covid suited
his strengths.

And he set a precedent for, I think,
what the public are prepared

to have in their leaders.

No.

It turned out that he was deeply
flawed as a Prime Minister.

Tragically, because he had
many great qualities and could

have been Prime Minister
for a long time.

Boris Johnson had the mandate
from the British people.

And I think it has been a mistake
of the Conservative Party

to take away that mandate
when the British people didn't.

Boris is a great campaigner.

He is great at connecting
with people.

But that doesn't automatically
translate

into being a good Prime Minister.

You've got to be a good chairman,
you've got to read your briefs,

you've got to be able to make
decisions and understand

that making decisions
is not just satisfying people,

it's upsetting people.

Boris Johnson's always craved
a place in history,

and he will always have one
for taking the UK out of the EU.

But he'll be remembered too
for a messy period in office

and leaving his party unhappy,

an uneasy coalition
of different tribes

unsure what they had in common,
split and cross.

Of course, there was
immediately a line-up

of ambitious candidates
ready to take his place.

It is politics, after all.

But Boris Johnson's furious rump
of supporters

were determined to use
the influence they had left

to back one candidate
and block another.

Rishi had resigned
to bring down Boris,
and it was very unlikely, therefore,

that we would want to support
the person who had brought
Boris Johnson down

and indeed had been
campaigning against him

and had set up the... his website
some months beforehand.

I remember you and Jacob Rees-Mogg
coming out of Cabinet and saying,
"We're going to back Liz Truss."

There's a reason why we did that.
So what's the reason you did that?

Well, we weren't going
to back Rishi Sunak.

She's probably a stronger Brexiteer
than both of us.

And she believes in low taxation.
Thank you. And she's a woman.

And is she the sort of
continuity candidate?

Will Boris Johnson be backing her?

As soon as Boris had resigned,
I knew I would back Liz.

The one area where I had always
wished us to go further and faster

was on the economy.

That was never really
what interested Boris.

We hadn't done as much as we should
to really get on with the sort of

reforms which Mrs Thatcher
had delivered in the 1980s.

And I was clear that among the very
few upsides of the situation
we now found ourselves in

was that Liz could get down to work
on trying to make sure

that everyone gets better off
from a situation

where the economy
just becomes high performing.

Liz Truss saw Thatcher,
and particularly Reagan,

as an inspiration
for what she wanted to achieve.

I think in style,
perhaps Reagan was a better fit

for who she wanted to be.

Boris was a phenomenal leader.

I was a great fan.
I still am a great fan.

But I think there was a view
that with the Covid

and with ever increasing taxes
and ever increasing spending,

we had to change direction.

And the moment at which Boris
essentially left Number 10

was a great opportunity
for Liz to reset,

because Rishi at that time

was very much seen as
the kind of Chancellor of Boris.

And that created an opening
for her to distinguish herself

from Boris and also from Rishi
at the same time.

She was described as being
somewhat socially awkward
and all the rest of it.

And I think that was something
that gave her actual strength.

I mean, she's someone who's very
good at bashing through regardless.

I get things done in government
and I don't just talk, I act.

She had a clear, unambiguous,
unequivocal position on taxes.

She thought we couldn't just
keep taxing and spending.

The key part of her agenda
was that she thought we needed

to kick start growth
and we needed to get it going.

And I was 100% behind that.

But what I am not advocating
is raising taxes at this vital time

when we're trying
to attract investment.

APPLAUSE

Her big promise -
to cut taxes dramatically,

to put cash back in people's pockets

and to chuck out what
she branded Treasury orthodoxy.

I give notice that Liz Truss
is elected as the leader

of the Conservative
and Unionist Party.

APPLAUSE

The Tory Party faithful loved it,
choosing her over Rishi Sunak.

She was a prominent part of
a free enterprise group of MPs.

She was thinking about policy
more than your average MP

right from the from the start

and came in with very strong
opinions of her own
to Downing Street.

I think there's some who come in
and they are, you know,

creatures of events or, you know,

the latest conversation
they've had with an adviser.

You know, that's not Liz Truss.

From Theresa May's attempt
to balance her government evenly

between Leavers and Remainers,

to Boris Johnson's
Brexiteer convictions,

Liz Truss chose only a narrow tribe,

buccaneering at first,
but fundamentally fragile.

Only her side had won.

Those who hadn't backed Liz
were made to feel isolated,

made to feel that
they were not really there.

They weren't given
ministerial roles.

There was no effort
to bring people in.

And you had a very bullish
support base for Liz Truss

who believed that
they'd finally got this kind of

right wing darling,
low tax Conservative.

I am determined to deliver.

Thank you.

It was really surprising that when
Liz Truss formed her Cabinet,

everybody who had supported
Rishi Sunak,

including very able ministers,
were completely excluded.

That did not bode well.

Liz Truss was in a hurry.

Her mission on fast forward.

Chucking out not just colleagues
who didn't agree with her,

but to tear up the status quo.

That orthodoxy,

the way Conservative governments
that she had been part of

had done business for years.

And shaking up the Treasury
was top of her list,

immediately sacking
its top official, Tom Scholar,

losing his years of experience
and reputation for handling crises,

just at the moment she was
embarking on drastic change

and spooking Whitehall.

When it comes to Tom Scholar,

he had become the embodiment,
if you like,

of the Treasury orthodoxy
as perceived.

There is a fundamental sort of
Thatcherite article of faith

that lowering taxes leads
to more buoyant growth,

which the Treasury didn't
necessarily subscribe to.

Liz Truss wasn't the first
Prime Minister to talk
about Treasury orthodoxy.

There's always been this feeling
that the Treasury

is very, very powerful in the UK.

It made sure
that its view prevailed.

We wanted to set a new direction

and I think in order to establish
the fact that it was a new approach,

it made sense to move him on.

You fire the permanent secretary
of the Treasury, Tom Scholar,

who had worked for me as Chancellor

and was a first class
permanent secretary,

one of the best that
I've had the pleasure

to work with within government.

I've had a number
of permanent secretaries,

so I couldn't really understand
the reason that decision was made.

And if you are really going
to fire a civil servant,

do it properly, take your time and
manage it and manage the process

and you treat the person
with respect.

Was sacking Tom Scholar
a mistake, though?

Yes, of course.

Sacking civil servants because you
think you've been slighted by them

or they're going to disagree
with you on policy

is always a mistake.

I don't think he probably agreed
with all of my views,

but ultimately he would have carried
out the Government's agenda.

Or if he felt unable to,
he would have resigned.

But sacking civil servants is
a very, very bad habit to get into.

Because she was such
an ideologue, and proudly so,

I think she had a view,

if I'm Prime Minister
and I'm not able to do what I want,

why am I still Prime Minister, then?

With the Treasury's top civil
servant out of the picture,

Truss and Kwarteng turn to
their plans for huge tax cuts.

The mini-Budget.

This is BBC News.

Then, tragedy.

Buckingham Palace
has announced the death

of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.

Almost the entire country
ground to a halt.

How many countries change
head of government,

head of state within a week
when you haven't had a coup?

So you've got a new Prime Minister
on the 6th of September.

We essentially were in a period of
national mourning until the Monday,

which must have been the 19th,

and then the mini-Budget
lands on the 23rd.

It was all done at very quick speed.

A normal Budget would take
at least three or four months,

if not six months, to consult over
and to mull over.

It's routine for the Government

to get the Office for Budget
Responsibility, the OBR,

to give an assessment on
how any plans for the economy

will affect everything else.

It usually takes ten weeks,
but Liz Truss did not want to wait.

For the first time in its history,
the OBR was brushed aside.

This new, almost rebel government,

wouldn't let anything
stand in its way.

What is it about her
that propelled her

to do something like
not to talk to the OBR,

absolutely putting the pedal
all the way to the floor

and going at 100mph?

I think she argues that when
you have things like the OBR
coming in, that takes more time.

It delays things.

I think that's why she'd have
instinctively tried to sideline them
in order to get these things done.

It's not a completely
irrational thing to think

that you only have two years left
until the next election

and you wanted your policies to bed
in quickly enough so that people
could get the benefit of them.

And in order to do that, you had
to get things done very quickly.

So the Chancellor went ahead,

announcing the biggest tax cuts
in 50 years.

But I'm not going to cut

the additional rate of tax today,
Mr Speaker.

I'm going to abolish it altogether.

What was missing -
how they'd be paid for.

And I commend it to the House.

CHEERING

What was it like for you,

watching what happened
when Liz Truss took over?

It was worse than just watching.

Kwasi Kwarteng was my PPS.

He was involved in some of
our innermost discussions

and I would have said, a person
who had a good handle

on what's needed
to manage the economy.

So I was really surprised
that he allowed himself

to be persuaded by the fantasies
around the Truss economics agenda.

Liz Truss had also been
my chief secretary.

She's an intelligent person,

and some of her analysis of some
of the problems in our economy

is actually, in my view, not wrong.

The problem was, she came
to the wrong conclusions

about the course of action that was
necessary to solve those problems.

You do not start by slashing taxes.

It was deeply strange seeing
the Conservatives risk sabotaging

what's normally number one
on their list - their reputation

for managing the economy
with competence and with care.

Yet Liz Truss seemed to relish
the idea of being

a kind of rebel Prime Minister.

Maybe some of her arguments
did have merit,

but the way that
she brought in her measures

sent the establishment into shock

and within days, she and the pound
were fighting to survive.

If you're going to have the Budget,
you've got to do it properly.

You've got to take people with you,

especially you've got
to take the markets with you,

and you've got to show
that all your decisions

that you're about to announce
in your Budget all fit together.

And that's why the OBR, the Office
for Budget Responsibility,

is so important.

So when you take
those things together,

you fire the permanent secretary,
sideline the OBR,

the response was
entirely predictable.

When he was the governor
of the Bank of England,

Mervyn King said that
the role of central banks

was to make central banking
as boring as dentistry,

and we haven't succeeded
in that in the past few years.

The so-called mini-Budget
happened about midday

and the most immediate reaction
in financial markets

was that the value of sterling fell
quite sharply against the dollar.

Sterling fell by about 4%.

And even at that frozen price,

it will still be difficult
for many people.

And Chancellor, in the hours
after your statement,

we saw the pound fall to its
lowest level in many, many years.

The stock markets fell

and, crucially, the cost of
government borrowing went up, too.

I think it's probably fair to say
that when you put your plans

at the mercy of financial markets
that form their own views
about what you're going to do,

you rarely get the benefit
of the doubt.

And also we're bringing forward
the cut in the basic rate
and there's more to come.

We've only been here 19 days.

There were comments from
the Chancellor over the weekend

that made market participants think,
well, maybe there's more to come.

What happens if the pound
continues to slide like that?

What you know is that as
Chancellor Exchequer, we don't,

I don't comment on market movements.

On the Sunday night,
as the Asian markets opened,

it was clear that sterling
was again falling.

I was looking at it
as a global issue,

because the yen
was at a 50-year low.

So I was seeing it in terms of the
dollar universally as very strong,

but of course, obviously,
people here, rightly,
were looking at the pound.

Chancellor, what are you going
to do about the turmoil

on the markets this morning, sir?

Long term interest rates
rose by more

than they did in any year
of this century,

other than the period
around the Covid lockdown.

Do you have anything to say
about what's going on, sir?

People were frankly
shouting down the phone

about the pressure and the stress
that they were under.

What do you have to say about
everything that's been
going on, sir?

I'm just going to my office now.
Thanks.

Thank you very much, sir.
Thank you.

I realised then that
that was probably something

that would be a big problem for us.

I mean, I myself was
affected in the sense

that I had to renegotiate a mortgage
at the end of last year.

So I was directly, in a way, caught
up personally in what was going on.

I said to her,
"We can't go helter skelter.

"We've got to slow things down.
We've got to slow things down."

And she said to me,
"I've only got two years."

And I said, "You'll have two months
if you carry on like this."

I think there is some wisdom
in trying to take things
in a more measured way.

I mean, we all know the fable,
the tortoise and the hare,

and it's not the hare that wins.

But there was no way Liz Truss
was going to give up on her shot.

She pushed on with the plan
to scrap the 45p top rate of tax

to be flaunted
at the party conference.

I was working with her on a draft
for the leadership speech

that was, you know,
absolutely Liz unleashed.

She was going to do the strongest,
punchiest arguments yet.

"I'm not prepared to keep
that 45p top tax rate in place for

"the sake of virtue-signalling."

I think her attitude
at that time initially was,

we had to hold our nerve,

and that we would look weak
if we were then to U-turn.

But as the conference began,
could she really keep going?

The party was quite split.

There were some people
who thought we should stick to it.

And there were others who said,
"Well, you've got to reverse it".

That Sunday morning,
in a surreal encounter,

she seemed determined
to plough on regardless.

There's been a lot of controversy
around that decision.

Are you absolutely committed
to abolishing the 45p tax rate

for the wealthiest people
in the country? Yes.

It is part of an overall package...

Mm-hm. ..of making our tax system
simpler and lower.

But after this extraordinary
blast from Michael Gove,

I wasn't sure that determination
would last the night.

To have, as your principal
decision, the headline tax move,

cutting tax for the wealthiest,

that is a display
of the wrong values.

It sounds right now,
if things carry on as they are,

you won't be able to vote for these
measures as a Conservative MP.

Well, I don't believe it's right.

I was essentially sent out
to reverse it,

and I was happy to do that.

But you've got to explain
what it is you're doing.

You've got to explain why
you're taking the steps you are.

The top rate of tax has gone.

What was clear, talking to lots
of people up and down the country,

talking to MPs, talking to voters,
talking to our constituents,

was that the 45p rate was
becoming a huge distraction...

The decision to U-turn on
the top rate of tax was, for me,

the moment where I realised
just how grave the problem

really was with Conservative MPs,

who had frankly not accepted
the decision of the membership

to put Liz in place as party leader.

There was a real crisis of authority
within the Conservative Party.

Losing a plan is one thing.

Losing authority, another.

Perhaps the answer was
to lose her Chancellor.

It sticks very much in my mind.

I was in Washington, and I remember
speaking two or three times

to the Prime Minister, she was
insistent that I came back

a day early, and I didn't
see the point of that.

We were simply just turning
a drama into a crisis,

because, you know, hauling back
a Chancellor to the Exchequer

in Washington can mean
only one thing.

Over there and under pressure,

but the Chancellor holds the line
during his trip to Washington.

And you'll be Chancellor,
and Liz Truss will be Prime Minister

this time next month?
Absolutely, 100%.

I'm not going anywhere.

OK, let's just take you live
to Heathrow.

This is the plane carrying
the Chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng,

we understand, who cut short
his meeting because of

the urgent economic situation
here in the UK.

I was being driven from
Heathrow to Downing Street.

And I was in the car
with my special adviser,

and she was on Twitter.

And Steve Swinford of the Times
said the Chancellor will be sacked,

or has been sacked -
that was a tweet.

And I remember her saying,
"Do you think this is true"?

And I said, "If it's Steve Swinford,
it's coming from Number 10."

This is definitely happening.

Much in the way President Trump
used to operate,

I was sacked on Twitter.

I was pretty composed.

Went to see the Prime Minister,
who then said she was sacking me.

And I remember very clearly, I said,
"This isn't going to save you.

"This has actually
made things worse for you."

And I was very specific, I said,

"I think you've got
three weeks now."

Do you feel like you've been
betrayed by the Prime Minister?

I don't think there's any such thing
really as betrayal in politics.

I mean, that makes it sound
too grand.

I felt a bit let down.

I thought, if we'd held the line,
we could've survived.

Now, I'm not saying
we would've done.

Liz Truss might have hoped
sacking her closest ally

would halt the relentless
market turmoil

and stave off a mutiny
in her own party.

By then, you know, party discipline
had just started breaking down.

It's that the whole thing was
just managed so badly.

A government only weeks old
was already past its sell-by date.

The whole operation at Number 10
by then and utterly broken down,

and they pretty much just
sort of lost control.

There was just so much concern
about the Truss administration

and so many mistakes that were
being made on a daily basis.

I think it just then became
the catalyst for ultimately

what was her downfall.

Liz Truss never really seemed
like she was in charge.

She'd been humiliated by
the financial markets,

forced to ditch many of her plans.

But then, it came to that most basic
question for any Prime Minister -

can they keep control in here,
in the Commons,

where they have to get things done?

Remember, she'd inherited
Boris Johnson's huge majority -

but it wasn't hers,

and she'd only given jobs
to people who agreed with her.

She never had the whole
Tory Party on board.

And when it came to a vote
on fracking, suddenly, it was like

the mess and panic in here of
Theresa May's Brexit days was back,

when every day, the Government
feared losing complete control.

The Truss fracking vote management
was the exact example of why

she did everything wrong.

What happened on that night,
it was just like, oh...

..nightmare.

Labour grabbed the opportunity
to expose the chaos

in the Truss administration,
wording a vote on fracking -

which many Tory MPs
staunchly opposed -

so they could seize control
of Parliament.

This was Labour doing
party politics very well.

If they won the vote, they would
have control over Parliament.

Now, we as Conservatives
cannot give the Labour Party

control over Parliament,

that would allow them to pass
votes to bring new issues.

Liz had to make sure
she won the vote.

It was really, really serious.

And so, that's why that vote
became a vote of confidence

in the Government, which was
why we had to win it.

It wasn't purely about fracking.

Minister Graham Stewart.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

It was a, what we call
a three-line whip here,

so everyone was expected to vote.

I whipped during the Brexit years.

You know, I can remember
what it was like to lose votes.

I remember the pressure.

..That the right honourable
gentleman for Doncaster North,

who is an extremely clever man of
whom I have a great deal of respect,

has been a little bit
too clever by half.

But because, at the last minute,
the fracking vote was changed from

the dispatch box to say
it's not a vote of confidence...

..it was just mayhem.

Because quite clearly,
Madam Deputy Speaker,

this is not a confidence vote,
but it is an attempt

by Her Majesty's... It is.

I looked down around the desk,
and there's all chaos and shouting,

and this sort of, you know,
carry on, it's like, "Blimey!"

You have Conservative MPs going into
the lobby they've been asked

to go to by the whips,
but some refusing to in the middle.

And on the other side,
you saw Labour MPs goading people,

shouting, "Have a conscience,
do the right thing,

"you should be ashamed
of yourselves."

So, it was the worst possible
situation you could've seen.

There were tears,
there were people upset.

You then see the Chief Whip
come into the lobby.

Liz Truss is in the corner
having a conversation with Wendy.

I said, "That's it. I resign."

But then, my resignation
was not accepted.

Wendy walks off,
Liz calls after her.

Liz then runs through
the voting lobby so fast

that she forgets to vote.

Colleagues were shouting
and swearing, saying,

"What is going on?"

Because this had become
such a big moment.

There's a young colleague
in front of me, crying.

She explains that, you know,
there's been some unhappiness

in the division lobbies,

one of her colleagues is very upset.

And at that point, I just lose my
patience with this whole nonsense,

and say,
"Right, we'll sort this out".

ON LAPTOP: It is just...

It is a pitiful reflection on
the Conservative Parliamentary Party

at every level.

Then I found a BBC camera and said,

"This Government
has run out of time."

ON LAPTOP: Do you think there's
any coming back from this?

I don't think so.

But I haven't, I...

I have to say, I've been
of that view really since

two weeks ago.

I hope all those people that put
Liz Truss in Number 10,

I hope it was worth it.

I hope it was worth it
for the ministerial Red Box,

I hope it was worth it
to sit round the Cabinet table,

because the damage they have done
to our party is extraordinary.

I've had enough.

I've had enough
of talentless people...

putting their tick in
the right box,

not because it's in
the national interest...

Er, I-I mean, look,
Charles is a great man,

and a very interesting man,

and a very good chairman of
the Procedure Committee

when I was on it.

But I'm not beginning to pretend
that that particular evening

was a high spot in the fortunes
of the Conservative Party.

Were you in Parliament
the night of the fracking vote?

Do you remember?
Oh, my giddy aunt, yeah.

That was a bad night.

You know, the standards of
behaviour in Westminster, and...

and how it conducts its business

has just deteriorated since 2016.

The rancour, the animosity,
the just general unpleasantness.

I saw members being physically
manhandled into another lobby...

MEMBERS SHOUT

Yes! ..and being bullied.

While crying. If we want
to stand up against bullying in

this House of our staff,

we have to stop bullying in
this chamber, as well, don't we?

MEMBERS CHEER

I think some particularly silly
fellow said that you can manhandle

people without touching them.

And I was accused of that.

Well, I didn't manhandle
even in the non-touching sense

of manhandling anybody. No, no.

..If the honourable gentleman
cares to bring evidence...

That came from a very silly fellow.

..Voted in the division
just now without any clarity

as to what it was
they were actually voting for!

I thank the honourable
gentleman for his...

The headlines this morning.

The pressure on Liz Truss
has intensified after chaotic scenes

during a Commons vote last night.

We'll be speaking to
a Cabinet minister...

She'd won the vote,
but lost the argument.

MPs were in chaos.

Grudges and disbelief at how
the Prime Minister had behaved.

I was receiving a lot
of messages the next morning,

and calls from colleagues

who just thought
that things couldn't go on.

And I just picked up
my phone to call Number 10,

to ask to see the Prime Minister
when a message came through,

saying, "The Prime Minister
would like to see you."

And she asked me,
did I think it was retrievable?

And I said no.

She responded to say that
she didn't think it was either.

I think at the end,
when she chucked in the towel,

I didn't detect much fight.

I think she was literally resigned,
er, to her fate at that moment.

LIZ TRUSS: Given the situation,

I cannot deliver the mandate

on which I was elected
by the Conservative Party.

I have therefore spoken to
His Majesty the King to notify him

that I am resigning as leader
of the Conservative Party.

Thank you.

It's really definitely tragic,
what happened in those 45 days...

will overshadow everything
she had done beforehand.

Understandably, people will fixate
on what happened at the end,

the culmination of her career,

and the decisions she took
each week in Number 10.

She had so much ambition and ideas,
and, you know, vision

to really execute and deliver.

But then, for the premiership
to then be

this sort of pub quiz answer now,

being the shortest-living
Prime Minister,

it really just rams home
that tragedy.

Were you surprised at
how messy it got so quickly?

No. They were never going to let
Liz Truss stay in power.

Who's "they"? The people who removed
Boris Johnson.

After the surreal pantomime in here,

after only 45 days in the job,

Liz Truss was out.

Her attempt to change
the Conservatives' course

had smashed into reality.

Many of her MP colleagues in here

had never believed
she was up to the job.

She'd been the party members'
choice,

but her time in office
was so ridiculously short,

how could we ever be so sure?

Looking back, what we do know
perhaps is that

her messy few weeks were the peak,

the product, maybe,
of six years of chaos,

when so often, the Tories
turned in on themselves and

turned viciously on each other,

while the country, the rest of us,
could only watch on.

How would you sum up or describe
in one phrase, or one word

what happened in this country,

in Westminster, in politics,

and everywhere between
2016 and 2022?

One word?

Unprecedented.

Turbulent.

Can I have three?
You can have three. Or four?

Or four. Maybe, I don't know?

You can have a phrase.
LAUGHING: I could have...

I think we lost our minds.

It is the end of normal.

We're in a period of
greater disruption where people

are struggling with...
longer-established ideas.

But the key, the key with
Prime Ministers that were...

out of sympathy with the country,

that were going too far -

the key is the British system
was able to deal with them,

and in very short order,

dispatched two people
who it deemed were not up to

the job of Prime Minister.

So, the British system,
in the end, worked.

It was just messy getting there.

It was messy getting there, yes.

I think what's been damaged
the most in recent years

is the principle of integrity.

I think we have an issue of trust
in politics, sort of full stop.

It's not just a Tory Party issue.

Looking ahead, I think the party
can absolutely recover from this,

and the first step to recovery
is having the right leader.

At one stage, we had Boris Johnson
and Jeremy Corbyn.

And now, we have Keir Starmer
and Rishi Sunak,

much more kind of centrist,
less populist figures.

People they're less excited by,
but they feel more comfortable with.

Solid political institutions,

continuity, cautiousness,

even boringness.

All of that looked as though
it was gone.

You know, in all this time,

the Conservatives have hit amazing
highs and devastating lows.

They took us out of
the European Union,

making the biggest constitutional
change in decades happen,

but had to grapple, too,
with the horrors of the pandemic.

Boris Johnson won
that incredible majority,

with all the authority and untold
opportunity that should bring.

You know, politicians persuade us
to give them power

to change everybody's lives.

That's what this place is meant
to be all about.

But that invisible contract
has been stretched,

torn forever, in the eyes of some,
by scandals and mistakes,

clashes and conflicts, hammering
the reputation of this place

and battering some of
our institutions,

and claiming the careers of four
Conservative Prime Ministers.

And at the end of it all,
the party,

perhaps the country, feels exhausted
by the drama,

sick of the adrenaline,
but unsure,

wondering where the method was
in all that madness.

If you hadn't seen it
with your own eyes,

you might not believe
it happened at all.