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1
00:00:07,716 --> 00:00:09,884
Oh, that is so weird.
2
00:00:15,890 --> 00:00:18,184
That's easy enough.
3
00:00:25,900 --> 00:00:28,028
Bingo.
4
00:00:28,653 --> 00:00:31,364
It looks exactly like it
did when you picked it up.
5
00:00:31,406 --> 00:00:33,992
Yeah, that's how you end.
6
00:00:34,576 --> 00:00:39,664
theme music
7
00:00:44,794 --> 00:00:46,212
I'll start this week.
8
00:00:46,254 --> 00:00:48,089
So she keeps saying
that I'm not trying,
9
00:00:48,131 --> 00:00:50,258
so I'd like to know
what she means by that.
10
00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,554
Wait, but I
thought you're starting.
11
00:00:54,596 --> 00:00:56,056
Okay, fair
enough.
12
00:00:56,097 --> 00:00:58,224
That's starting by
immediately passing the ball.
13
00:00:58,266 --> 00:01:01,561
Well, like, it's been
a constant argument.
14
00:01:01,603 --> 00:01:04,230
But what-- for you, I
mean, considering...
15
00:01:04,272 --> 00:01:05,732
what we've
talked about so far--
16
00:01:05,774 --> 00:01:07,901
-Mm-hm.
-What is "trying?"
17
00:01:07,942 --> 00:01:11,112
What is the work you're doing?
18
00:01:11,154 --> 00:01:14,908
Trying to be
more appreciative?
19
00:01:14,949 --> 00:01:16,451
Mm-hm.
20
00:01:16,493 --> 00:01:19,621
I feel like I still
haven't found a way to...
21
00:01:19,662 --> 00:01:22,082
I guess convey my
appreciation in a way that
22
00:01:22,123 --> 00:01:23,458
resonates with her.
23
00:01:23,500 --> 00:01:25,126
Mm-hm.
24
00:01:25,168 --> 00:01:29,255
So in a way, you're describing
the experience that you cannot
25
00:01:29,297 --> 00:01:33,927
reach Ping -- that whatever
you're doing is not reaching.
26
00:01:33,968 --> 00:01:35,095
Yeah.
27
00:01:35,136 --> 00:01:36,930
Well, I mean, she
tells me so.
28
00:01:36,971 --> 00:01:38,640
Right, but I'm
just staying with you.
29
00:01:38,681 --> 00:01:40,809
-Yeah.
-It's like when you're...
30
00:01:40,850 --> 00:01:44,104
encased in this way where you
feel like whatever you're doing
31
00:01:44,145 --> 00:01:45,438
is not gonna make
a difference...
32
00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:47,273
Mm.
33
00:01:47,315 --> 00:01:49,150
You're creating a
certain kind of forcefield
34
00:01:49,192 --> 00:01:50,610
around you...
35
00:01:50,652 --> 00:01:51,653
Mm-hm.
36
00:01:51,694 --> 00:01:52,987
That you've
already given up...
37
00:01:53,029 --> 00:01:54,781
-Mm-hm.
-That you've retreated...
38
00:01:54,823 --> 00:01:56,825
Mm-hm.
39
00:01:56,866 --> 00:02:00,120
And it's a very
powerful forcefield.
40
00:02:00,161 --> 00:02:02,789
Yeah, I mean, I just--
I get to that point where I feel
41
00:02:02,831 --> 00:02:05,291
like I've tried everything and I
just don't know what else to do.
42
00:02:05,333 --> 00:02:06,960
Mm-hm.
43
00:02:07,001 --> 00:02:08,461
So, like, I feel
like I'm listening more,
44
00:02:08,503 --> 00:02:10,964
and I feel like
I'm retreating less.
45
00:02:11,005 --> 00:02:13,842
Are you noticing any of that?
46
00:02:13,883 --> 00:02:17,470
I'm noticing that
he's making, uh...
47
00:02:17,512 --> 00:02:21,307
a lot more effort in us
spending time together,
48
00:02:21,349 --> 00:02:22,809
I'm noticing that he--
49
00:02:22,851 --> 00:02:24,477
That's...major.
50
00:02:24,519 --> 00:02:28,982
Yeah, it's major, but it
comes with its conditions,
51
00:02:29,023 --> 00:02:30,608
you know?
52
00:02:30,650 --> 00:02:34,362
I mean, we were at a dinner at a
really romantic place a couple
53
00:02:34,404 --> 00:02:36,656
of nights ago, and...
54
00:02:36,698 --> 00:02:40,326
I was looking at him and I was
trying to engage him in just...
55
00:02:40,368 --> 00:02:42,704
not just conversation,
but just being present,
56
00:02:42,745 --> 00:02:44,998
and I feel like that's
always a struggle with him;
57
00:02:45,039 --> 00:02:46,666
he can't be present with me.
58
00:02:46,708 --> 00:02:50,545
Everything has gotta be just...
59
00:02:50,587 --> 00:02:53,673
He's distracted all the
time, and then he looks at me,
60
00:02:53,715 --> 00:02:57,177
and he gives me
these comical winks, like...
61
00:02:57,218 --> 00:02:58,344
in the middle of dinner!
62
00:02:58,386 --> 00:02:59,846
I'm like, "I'm
trying to look at you!
63
00:02:59,888 --> 00:03:01,181
Why do you wink
at me like that?"
64
00:03:01,222 --> 00:03:03,516
He's like, "What, I
can't give you a wink?!"
65
00:03:03,558 --> 00:03:06,019
So you're trying
to make contact,
66
00:03:06,060 --> 00:03:08,021
and you feel like
Will is not present.
67
00:03:08,062 --> 00:03:09,689
I feel like he's
not present, and--
68
00:03:09,731 --> 00:03:11,191
-Okay.
-Yeah.
69
00:03:11,232 --> 00:03:12,859
Pause.
70
00:03:12,901 --> 00:03:15,528
Will, say what it's
like on your end.
71
00:03:15,570 --> 00:03:17,864
How are you
feeling sitting there?
72
00:03:17,906 --> 00:03:19,532
Yeah, it was like we
were having a nice dinner--
73
00:03:19,574 --> 00:03:20,867
Mm-hm.
74
00:03:20,909 --> 00:03:22,368
It was a new place we
wanted to check out and...
75
00:03:22,410 --> 00:03:23,703
and yeah, I look
over and she's kinda,
76
00:03:23,745 --> 00:03:25,538
like, staring at
me all flirtatious,
77
00:03:25,580 --> 00:03:27,207
so I gave her a wink.
78
00:03:27,248 --> 00:03:29,209
You weren't
sitting there feeling...
79
00:03:29,250 --> 00:03:32,086
shut-down, remote?
80
00:03:32,128 --> 00:03:34,422
-No.
-No.
81
00:03:34,464 --> 00:03:39,510
So what if that's
Will's way of being present?
82
00:03:39,636 --> 00:03:42,889
What you're interpreting as
"not present" is simply Will
83
00:03:42,931 --> 00:03:44,891
being Will.
84
00:03:44,933 --> 00:03:48,394
Yeah,
I'm thinking that...
85
00:03:48,436 --> 00:03:52,941
you know, I'm-- that night
was the first night I...
86
00:03:52,982 --> 00:03:55,235
looked at him
without the contempt,
87
00:03:55,276 --> 00:03:56,402
without the resentment--
88
00:03:56,444 --> 00:03:57,528
Right, and it
sounds like he felt it.
89
00:03:57,570 --> 00:03:58,738
-Without the hate--
-Right!
90
00:03:58,780 --> 00:03:59,906
Without
all of this baggage, right?
91
00:03:59,948 --> 00:04:01,241
Right, amazing.
92
00:04:01,282 --> 00:04:03,076
Yeah, so I
brought myself there.
93
00:04:03,117 --> 00:04:03,743
Mm-hm.
94
00:04:03,743 --> 00:04:08,081
I wanted to be in
the moment with him, and...
95
00:04:08,122 --> 00:04:11,251
that was an opportu-- for me,
that was an opportunity for him
96
00:04:11,292 --> 00:04:13,419
to kind of return
that energy, right?
97
00:04:13,461 --> 00:04:16,297
-Because we were there--
-He was trying in his own way.
98
00:04:16,339 --> 00:04:19,759
Maybe that is my problem;
that's the deeper issue is that
99
00:04:19,801 --> 00:04:21,427
when I'm trying to be
present with someone,
100
00:04:21,469 --> 00:04:23,972
I don't wanna be winked
at eight times in a row.
101
00:04:24,013 --> 00:04:27,642
That's not flirtatious,
that's just obnoxious.
102
00:04:27,684 --> 00:04:30,103
It's like trying to have a
conversation with someone about
103
00:04:30,144 --> 00:04:31,396
something deep--
104
00:04:31,437 --> 00:04:32,939
-Hold on, hold on.
105
00:04:32,981 --> 00:04:34,941
What you're just doing right
now is rather than talk about
106
00:04:34,983 --> 00:04:39,487
whatever feelings,
you're being critical.
107
00:04:39,529 --> 00:04:41,614
Okay, so...
108
00:04:41,656 --> 00:04:44,284
I miss...
109
00:04:44,325 --> 00:04:48,788
the way we used to be when we
would communicate with just...
110
00:04:48,830 --> 00:04:50,123
our body language, right?
111
00:04:50,164 --> 00:04:52,834
-Mm-hm.
-I miss the...
112
00:04:52,875 --> 00:04:54,460
that chemistry, you know?
113
00:04:54,502 --> 00:04:55,086
Mm-hm.
114
00:04:55,128 --> 00:04:57,463
I'm trying to
recapture that, I'm trying to,
115
00:04:57,505 --> 00:05:00,300
you know-- I'm trying to dig it
out from all the crap that we've
116
00:05:00,341 --> 00:05:01,467
piled on top of it--
117
00:05:01,509 --> 00:05:03,136
Mm-hm.
118
00:05:03,177 --> 00:05:06,306
And when he does that -- Will
being Will -- I feel like he's
119
00:05:06,347 --> 00:05:09,350
not honoring what we used to
be or what I need from him in
120
00:05:09,392 --> 00:05:10,977
the moment.
121
00:05:11,019 --> 00:05:12,520
The thing I don't
get, though, is,
122
00:05:12,562 --> 00:05:14,314
like, I've always been a little
bit silly and goofy, and...
123
00:05:14,355 --> 00:05:15,982
Mm-hm.
124
00:05:16,024 --> 00:05:17,650
She used to laugh
with me and play with me,
125
00:05:17,692 --> 00:05:19,819
and now, it aggravates her.
126
00:05:19,861 --> 00:05:22,530
Well, it sounds like Ping
is saying that she's missing
127
00:05:22,572 --> 00:05:25,616
something else.
128
00:05:26,034 --> 00:05:28,661
Can you say what you're missing?
129
00:05:28,703 --> 00:05:29,996
Well, in that
particular moment,
130
00:05:30,038 --> 00:05:32,665
I was really missing...
131
00:05:32,707 --> 00:05:36,210
the person I fell in love with,
the person that was able to look
132
00:05:36,252 --> 00:05:38,046
at me without...
133
00:05:38,087 --> 00:05:39,672
all this extra stuff.
134
00:05:39,714 --> 00:05:42,216
And yeah, there's-- you know,
we have our jovial moments,
135
00:05:42,258 --> 00:05:44,052
but we had...
136
00:05:44,093 --> 00:05:45,511
deep, intimate moments--
137
00:05:45,553 --> 00:05:47,513
-Mm-hm.
-And...
138
00:05:47,555 --> 00:05:49,515
in that particular
moment, it just felt
139
00:05:49,557 --> 00:05:52,727
like he was resisting...
140
00:05:52,769 --> 00:05:55,646
getting there with me, and...
141
00:05:57,732 --> 00:05:59,233
and I felt rejected.
142
00:05:59,275 --> 00:06:00,860
-Mm-hm.
-You know?
143
00:06:00,902 --> 00:06:02,195
And...
144
00:06:02,236 --> 00:06:03,029
I know a wink is just a
wink, it's just a wink,
145
00:06:03,071 --> 00:06:04,697
whatever, but it just--
146
00:06:04,739 --> 00:06:06,199
-You felt rejected.
-I felt rejected.
147
00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:07,408
Mm-hm.
148
00:06:07,450 --> 00:06:08,868
I felt like he
wasn't there with me.
149
00:06:08,910 --> 00:06:11,329
Mm-hm.
150
00:06:11,746 --> 00:06:15,833
It's hard to
have the patience.
151
00:06:16,334 --> 00:06:19,045
Well, that's-- that's
what I'm struggling with is
152
00:06:19,087 --> 00:06:20,588
because, you know,
we've been together,
153
00:06:20,630 --> 00:06:22,757
what, six, seven years, and I
feel like I've been patient,
154
00:06:22,799 --> 00:06:24,759
I've been trying
to understand him,
155
00:06:24,801 --> 00:06:26,052
and I was thinking
about it the other day;
156
00:06:26,094 --> 00:06:28,554
one of the reasons why...
157
00:06:28,596 --> 00:06:31,391
I did fall in love with him,
because I saw a little bit of me
158
00:06:31,432 --> 00:06:33,101
-- the younger
version of me -- in him,
159
00:06:33,142 --> 00:06:35,061
and I wanted to take
care of that person,
160
00:06:35,103 --> 00:06:38,564
and I wanted to be there in
a way that nobody was there
161
00:06:38,606 --> 00:06:39,732
for me.
162
00:06:39,774 --> 00:06:41,609
What did you see?
163
00:06:41,651 --> 00:06:44,737
That inner child -- you know,
the one that was neglected,
164
00:06:44,779 --> 00:06:47,407
that wasn't given
what they needed, you know?
165
00:06:47,448 --> 00:06:49,283
-Mm-hm.
-But...
166
00:06:49,325 --> 00:06:51,077
Yeah, and that's what
connected me to him.
167
00:06:51,119 --> 00:06:53,413
But I think over the years, I
found myself not getting what I
168
00:06:53,454 --> 00:06:57,583
needed, and however I
expressed whatever I need,
169
00:06:57,625 --> 00:07:00,753
he didn't hear it, I
didn't feel like he listened,
170
00:07:00,795 --> 00:07:02,797
and I'm just tired.
171
00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,050
-Mm-hm.
-Like...
172
00:07:06,384 --> 00:07:09,137
you know, it's-- he
thinks I'm crying "Wolf."
173
00:07:09,178 --> 00:07:10,304
He's like, "Oh, you always
say you're gonna leave."
174
00:07:10,346 --> 00:07:11,764
I'm like, "No!
175
00:07:11,806 --> 00:07:12,932
I don't want to leave!
176
00:07:12,974 --> 00:07:14,434
I'm telling you I
don't want to leave,
177
00:07:14,475 --> 00:07:17,270
but I feel like we're gonna
get to a certain point...
178
00:07:17,311 --> 00:07:18,604
where...
179
00:07:18,646 --> 00:07:20,106
I'm done!
180
00:07:20,148 --> 00:07:21,816
I-- I can't do this anymore!"
181
00:07:21,858 --> 00:07:23,609
Like, yeah, I have
things I have to work on,
182
00:07:23,651 --> 00:07:26,779
but I feel like you're so
encapsulated in your own shit
183
00:07:26,821 --> 00:07:29,449
that you can't see
what you're throwing out,
184
00:07:29,490 --> 00:07:31,117
and if you want to
throw it out, then fine!
185
00:07:31,159 --> 00:07:32,785
Then let me go!
186
00:07:32,827 --> 00:07:33,369
Move on!
187
00:07:33,369 --> 00:07:37,290
I would like to
move on with my life.
188
00:07:37,331 --> 00:07:40,251
Mm-hm.
189
00:07:41,544 --> 00:07:44,630
I feel like, you know,
it's not my job to save him.
190
00:07:44,672 --> 00:07:49,135
I need to save myself, I
need to be here for myself.
191
00:07:49,177 --> 00:07:51,304
And I really thought I
had a partner in him,
192
00:07:51,345 --> 00:07:54,140
I thought that we were
kinda kindred spirits that way,
193
00:07:54,182 --> 00:07:55,766
but he's not!
194
00:07:55,808 --> 00:07:58,811
He's a fucking little boy that
can't get out of his own fucking
195
00:07:58,853 --> 00:08:01,814
bubble or little cave or
whatever he created for himself,
196
00:08:01,856 --> 00:08:03,357
and I'm tired!
197
00:08:05,902 --> 00:08:08,196
I'm just tired.
198
00:08:08,237 --> 00:08:10,781
Mm-hm.
199
00:08:11,491 --> 00:08:14,327
I was thinking about what
you told us a few weeks ago.
200
00:08:14,368 --> 00:08:17,663
It's like yeah, I'm
starting to see the...
201
00:08:17,705 --> 00:08:19,999
masochistic dynamic
of our relationship.
202
00:08:20,041 --> 00:08:23,669
It's like okay, how much more of
this do we really need to do to
203
00:08:23,711 --> 00:08:26,797
each other, right?
Do we need to take?
204
00:08:32,386 --> 00:08:37,475
moody ambient music
205
00:09:00,248 --> 00:09:01,916
Hi, doggy!
206
00:09:01,958 --> 00:09:04,377
-Hi!
-Hello!
207
00:09:10,091 --> 00:09:12,927
So two weeks ago,
Molly and Josh had,
208
00:09:12,969 --> 00:09:14,887
like, an interesting...
209
00:09:14,929 --> 00:09:16,222
like, dramatic turn.
210
00:09:16,264 --> 00:09:17,557
Mm-hm.
211
00:09:17,598 --> 00:09:19,934
It was like an
outburst from her of...
212
00:09:19,976 --> 00:09:23,396
impatience, like real,
deep impatience with him and,
213
00:09:23,437 --> 00:09:24,939
vicariously, with me.
214
00:09:24,981 --> 00:09:26,232
Uh-huh!
215
00:09:26,274 --> 00:09:28,734
And they...
216
00:09:28,776 --> 00:09:30,778
cancelled the next session.
217
00:09:30,820 --> 00:09:32,071
Hm.
218
00:09:32,113 --> 00:09:33,739
With a pretend
excuse or not even?
219
00:09:33,781 --> 00:09:35,408
Nope, not a
pretend excuse at all.
220
00:09:35,449 --> 00:09:37,577
They suddenly got freaked out.
221
00:09:37,618 --> 00:09:41,747
You know how there's that
moment in therapy where...
222
00:09:41,789 --> 00:09:45,418
you hit, like, a real
spot, and suddenly,
223
00:09:45,459 --> 00:09:47,587
you decide, "I don't
need therapy anymore?"
224
00:09:47,628 --> 00:09:48,754
Absolutely.
225
00:09:48,796 --> 00:09:50,590
So they got terrified.
226
00:09:50,631 --> 00:09:53,092
Right.
227
00:09:53,259 --> 00:09:57,430
I wonder if, in part, it was
because the amount of intensity
228
00:09:57,471 --> 00:10:01,767
and exhaustion and truth that
occurred in that session was a
229
00:10:01,809 --> 00:10:02,935
breakthrough.
230
00:10:02,977 --> 00:10:03,728
Yeah.
231
00:10:03,728 --> 00:10:08,774
You could sort of see the entire
dynamic in that vignette that
232
00:10:08,816 --> 00:10:09,942
they came in with--
233
00:10:09,984 --> 00:10:10,735
Yeah.
234
00:10:10,776 --> 00:10:14,113
With the whiteboard
and the choice of colors.
235
00:10:14,155 --> 00:10:17,950
When she's creating these scenes
and setting it up with her
236
00:10:17,992 --> 00:10:19,619
universe in her language--
237
00:10:19,660 --> 00:10:20,828
Yeah.
238
00:10:20,870 --> 00:10:22,455
He's not
comfortable there.
239
00:10:22,496 --> 00:10:25,458
Not only not comfortable, he
may not want to be speaking her
240
00:10:25,499 --> 00:10:26,250
language--
241
00:10:26,292 --> 00:10:26,917
Yeah.
242
00:10:26,959 --> 00:10:28,961
Which
is great for her, actually.
243
00:10:29,003 --> 00:10:30,463
Absolutely.
244
00:10:30,504 --> 00:10:32,131
With people who
aren't wired the same way,
245
00:10:32,173 --> 00:10:33,799
there's a lot of
work to be done--
246
00:10:33,841 --> 00:10:34,467
Mm-hm.
247
00:10:34,508 --> 00:10:36,135
To let
everybody be their own person--
248
00:10:36,177 --> 00:10:36,886
Yeah.
249
00:10:36,927 --> 00:10:39,680
And nonetheless
still partner with each other.
250
00:10:39,722 --> 00:10:42,600
Right.
251
00:10:45,853 --> 00:10:48,356
When we left here last
time, we did not speak--
252
00:10:48,397 --> 00:10:49,982
-Yeah.
-The entire way home.
253
00:10:50,024 --> 00:10:51,317
Yeah.
254
00:10:51,359 --> 00:10:53,152
We didn't speak for the
rest of that evening...
255
00:10:53,194 --> 00:10:54,654
or, really, the next day.
256
00:10:54,695 --> 00:10:55,988
Yeah.
257
00:10:56,030 --> 00:10:56,781
I was freaking out; I
was just freaking out,
258
00:10:56,781 --> 00:11:00,660
and I was freaking out because
I think what happened is...
259
00:11:00,701 --> 00:11:02,870
all I could think was
the sensational nature--
260
00:11:02,912 --> 00:11:04,038
Right.
261
00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:04,872
Of the stuff
we were talking about.
262
00:11:04,914 --> 00:11:06,374
Of course.
263
00:11:06,415 --> 00:11:10,336
And, you know, part of the
anxiety might also be related to
264
00:11:10,378 --> 00:11:13,381
the kind of anxiety one would
always feel in treatment...
265
00:11:13,422 --> 00:11:14,507
-Mm-hm.
-Right?
266
00:11:14,548 --> 00:11:16,342
Because you're
always, in a way...
267
00:11:16,384 --> 00:11:20,179
putting yourself out there,
which is often overwhelming.
268
00:11:20,221 --> 00:11:22,014
-Mm-hm.
-Right?
269
00:11:22,056 --> 00:11:26,185
And part of what
moves the process...
270
00:11:26,227 --> 00:11:29,522
and part of what gets people
out of their stuckness is,
271
00:11:29,563 --> 00:11:33,359
like, involving a third
person and another perspective.
272
00:11:33,401 --> 00:11:34,902
Mm-hm.
273
00:11:34,944 --> 00:11:39,365
Josh, did you have a particular
moment in the session that you
274
00:11:39,407 --> 00:11:41,200
found...
275
00:11:41,242 --> 00:11:45,037
either
particularly difficult, or...
276
00:11:45,079 --> 00:11:49,375
alarming, or transformative,
or something that you were
277
00:11:49,417 --> 00:11:51,043
responding to?
278
00:11:51,085 --> 00:11:53,713
It's a
little blurry, honestly, for me.
279
00:11:53,754 --> 00:11:55,756
Um...
280
00:11:55,798 --> 00:11:58,259
like, it's, like, almost
like the drive home is,
281
00:11:58,300 --> 00:12:01,220
like, the thing that's
so vivid in my mind.
282
00:12:01,262 --> 00:12:03,723
Mm-hm, what about it?
283
00:12:03,764 --> 00:12:06,559
Um...
284
00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,395
The, like...
285
00:12:09,437 --> 00:12:11,397
I'm trying to be poetic
here, but the-- like,
286
00:12:11,439 --> 00:12:12,898
the really loud silence.
287
00:12:12,940 --> 00:12:14,066
Mm-hm.
288
00:12:14,108 --> 00:12:16,444
It felt thick and,
like, oppressive,
289
00:12:16,485 --> 00:12:19,947
like I could feel the space
that was living between us.
290
00:12:19,989 --> 00:12:21,407
-Mm-hm.
-You know?
291
00:12:21,449 --> 00:12:23,784
-Mm-hm.
-And...
292
00:12:23,826 --> 00:12:27,079
I didn't work on my argument in
my head that I was going to make
293
00:12:27,121 --> 00:12:29,290
to you, which I do a lot.
294
00:12:29,331 --> 00:12:31,917
I write the scripts...
295
00:12:31,959 --> 00:12:33,252
Oftentimes, I don't even say it.
296
00:12:33,294 --> 00:12:34,295
Yes!
297
00:12:34,336 --> 00:12:36,589
Yes, and that's
why-- oh my gosh!
298
00:12:36,630 --> 00:12:38,632
And that's why...
299
00:12:38,674 --> 00:12:40,634
it felt comfortable for me--
300
00:12:40,676 --> 00:12:42,094
Mm-hm.
301
00:12:42,136 --> 00:12:45,097
To be silent, 'cause I also
didn't feel like I had to...
302
00:12:45,139 --> 00:12:48,267
You weren't continuing
a silent conversation.
303
00:12:48,309 --> 00:12:49,977
And I didn't
feel like I had to say,
304
00:12:50,019 --> 00:12:53,105
"Honey, are you okay?"
I didn't feel that way.
305
00:12:53,147 --> 00:12:55,274
Mm-hm.
306
00:12:55,316 --> 00:12:57,943
And so it was very freeing!
307
00:12:57,985 --> 00:12:59,779
Mm-hm.
308
00:12:59,820 --> 00:13:03,908
I found that car ride very...
309
00:13:04,825 --> 00:13:09,121
hopeless, sad,
and comfortable...
310
00:13:09,163 --> 00:13:11,457
strangely.
311
00:13:11,499 --> 00:13:14,293
It just felt like there was
nothing to talk about in that
312
00:13:14,335 --> 00:13:17,797
moment, it was just like...
313
00:13:17,838 --> 00:13:19,673
"Okay.
314
00:13:19,715 --> 00:13:22,134
This is where we are, period."
315
00:13:22,176 --> 00:13:23,969
Mm-hm.
316
00:13:24,011 --> 00:13:26,972
But I have a feeling, also,
that maybe in that moment,
317
00:13:27,014 --> 00:13:30,309
you were in despair...
318
00:13:30,351 --> 00:13:32,353
that that's what Josh
brings, and it will not
319
00:13:32,394 --> 00:13:33,646
necessarily change.
320
00:13:33,687 --> 00:13:35,147
Yes, yes.
321
00:13:35,189 --> 00:13:36,482
That you have to
find a different way of
322
00:13:36,524 --> 00:13:37,817
arranging yourself.
323
00:13:37,858 --> 00:13:39,985
Yes.
324
00:13:40,027 --> 00:13:42,488
Yeah, I mean, there--
that's kind of the hopelessness,
325
00:13:42,530 --> 00:13:45,115
right?
Is that...
326
00:13:51,205 --> 00:13:53,040
I don't-- I don't wanna
use the word "settle,"
327
00:13:53,082 --> 00:13:54,667
because I don't like that word.
328
00:13:54,708 --> 00:13:58,838
I think it's the word...um...
329
00:13:58,879 --> 00:14:00,005
"accept."
330
00:14:00,047 --> 00:14:01,215
Mm-hm.
331
00:14:01,257 --> 00:14:03,342
He may never
change, I know that,
332
00:14:03,384 --> 00:14:05,719
but I only have
one chance at life.
333
00:14:05,761 --> 00:14:09,557
Should I be accept--
like, shouldn't I be getting
334
00:14:09,598 --> 00:14:12,184
everything that I want?
335
00:14:12,226 --> 00:14:15,312
-Mm.
336
00:14:16,605 --> 00:14:21,569
moody ambient music
337
00:14:21,610 --> 00:14:23,696
Thank you.
338
00:14:37,585 --> 00:14:39,920
It's
funny; like two weeks ago,
339
00:14:39,962 --> 00:14:44,258
I had this feeling that all
these crises are coming up.
340
00:14:44,300 --> 00:14:46,218
And I'm working,
working, working,
341
00:14:46,260 --> 00:14:48,387
and I'm like...
342
00:14:48,429 --> 00:14:52,057
like, getting nervous
that I'm not managing to,
343
00:14:52,099 --> 00:14:55,561
like, help some of them enough.
344
00:14:55,853 --> 00:14:59,940
But then, just when I
hit that point in myself,
345
00:14:59,982 --> 00:15:02,902
like, the next session, some
of these couples came back,
346
00:15:02,943 --> 00:15:05,779
and they turned the corner.
347
00:15:05,821 --> 00:15:09,950
Like with Cyn and Yaya, they
kept going back -- repeatedly,
348
00:15:09,992 --> 00:15:13,078
like a gong -- to this
sense of failure around
349
00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:14,413
engaging sexually.
350
00:15:14,455 --> 00:15:15,581
Mm.
351
00:15:15,623 --> 00:15:17,750
And I was getting
really worried for them.
352
00:15:17,791 --> 00:15:19,418
Mm-hm.
353
00:15:19,460 --> 00:15:21,795
But then, they come back, and
Yaya says she sold her soul to
354
00:15:21,837 --> 00:15:22,421
the Devil...
355
00:15:22,421 --> 00:15:23,756
-Yes.
-And brought her mother in...
356
00:15:23,797 --> 00:15:24,548
Mm-hm.
357
00:15:24,548 --> 00:15:26,383
And then,
they told me that they did it!
358
00:15:26,425 --> 00:15:28,093
-Yeah.
-Nice work.
359
00:15:28,135 --> 00:15:31,263
I wonder: how does
the mother link to this?
360
00:15:31,305 --> 00:15:32,056
Yeah.
361
00:15:32,056 --> 00:15:35,643
Something that occurred
to me was that Cyn's sexual
362
00:15:35,684 --> 00:15:38,437
abuse was inside
of the family....
363
00:15:38,479 --> 00:15:39,813
Mm-hm.
364
00:15:39,855 --> 00:15:44,151
And now, she has children,
she's revisiting her trauma,
365
00:15:44,193 --> 00:15:47,321
and sex is inside
of the family again.
366
00:15:47,363 --> 00:15:48,072
-Yeah.
-Mm-hm.
367
00:15:48,072 --> 00:15:51,283
That's interesting because
her mother lives with them.
368
00:15:51,325 --> 00:15:52,451
-Mm-hm.
-She does?
369
00:15:52,493 --> 00:15:53,619
-Okay.
-Cyn's mother.
370
00:15:53,661 --> 00:15:54,828
-Yep.
-Ah.
371
00:15:54,870 --> 00:15:56,497
And one of their kids
is exactly the age that
372
00:15:56,538 --> 00:15:57,623
she was abused.
373
00:15:57,665 --> 00:15:58,999
Oh, wow.
374
00:15:59,041 --> 00:16:00,960
So she's deep in it;
she's being re-traumatized.
375
00:16:01,001 --> 00:16:02,795
-Mm-hm, yeah.
-Yeah.
376
00:16:02,836 --> 00:16:05,965
I wonder if she's ever had this
conversation with her mother.
377
00:16:06,006 --> 00:16:08,968
No, and I've asked them both to
maybe start thinking about doing
378
00:16:09,009 --> 00:16:10,135
those conversations.
379
00:16:10,177 --> 00:16:10,761
-Yeah.
-Mm-hm.
380
00:16:10,803 --> 00:16:12,972
But I know this
is difficult for them.
381
00:16:13,013 --> 00:16:14,807
Mm.
382
00:16:14,848 --> 00:16:17,643
tender ambient music
383
00:16:43,919 --> 00:16:44,420
Oh, we
read, by the way.
384
00:16:44,420 --> 00:16:45,838
-Ah!
385
00:16:48,757 --> 00:16:50,217
I was like,
"Ooh, this book is good."
386
00:16:50,259 --> 00:16:51,010
Mm-hm.
387
00:16:51,010 --> 00:16:51,760
I was like, "I haven't read a
book in a very long time, Orna."
388
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,179
Yeah, honestly, we have not
read a book in a long time.
389
00:16:54,221 --> 00:16:55,055
-Yeah.
-Mm-hm.
390
00:16:55,097 --> 00:16:56,849
When I read the part like...
391
00:16:56,890 --> 00:16:59,184
"You know how people
sometimes feel that sex is just,
392
00:16:59,226 --> 00:17:01,562
like, a spontaneous-- like
it just happens naturally or
393
00:17:01,603 --> 00:17:02,730
whatever?
394
00:17:02,771 --> 00:17:03,856
Like, no, you can
schedule that shit.
395
00:17:03,897 --> 00:17:05,733
You can be like,
'Tomorrow, at 5PM,
396
00:17:05,774 --> 00:17:07,693
we're gonna meet and we're
gonna have sex,'" you know?
397
00:17:07,735 --> 00:17:08,861
Mm-hm.
398
00:17:08,902 --> 00:17:10,696
It is kind of all new.
399
00:17:10,738 --> 00:17:13,198
Like, we are kind of...
400
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,075
in the honeymoon phase.
401
00:17:15,117 --> 00:17:18,704
I think it's more
'cause we're trying to...
402
00:17:18,746 --> 00:17:21,415
Well, it's kind of like we're
dating our new vers-- like...
403
00:17:21,457 --> 00:17:22,583
-Yeah.
-Our new selves.
404
00:17:22,624 --> 00:17:23,876
-The grown selves.
-Mm-hm.
405
00:17:23,917 --> 00:17:25,377
Yeah.
406
00:17:25,419 --> 00:17:26,420
'Cause we were-- we were young
when we first got together.
407
00:17:26,462 --> 00:17:27,588
Mm-hm.
408
00:17:27,629 --> 00:17:28,756
You know?
409
00:17:28,797 --> 00:17:29,381
So now we're...
410
00:17:29,423 --> 00:17:31,050
Again, we're
just learning each other.
411
00:17:31,091 --> 00:17:32,718
-That's wonderful.
-Yeah.
412
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:34,887
So we appreciated that.
413
00:17:34,928 --> 00:17:36,889
Thank you very much
for forcing us to read.
414
00:17:36,930 --> 00:17:38,766
Mm-hm.
415
00:17:38,807 --> 00:17:40,559
She had a conversation with
her mom -- an impromptu one.
416
00:17:40,601 --> 00:17:42,227
Oh, I did!
I forgot!
417
00:17:42,269 --> 00:17:43,228
-Wow!
-Oh my God!
418
00:17:43,270 --> 00:17:44,563
Oh, babe, I forgot about that!
419
00:17:44,605 --> 00:17:45,731
No, that was-- that was big.
420
00:17:45,773 --> 00:17:47,066
Tell me!
421
00:17:47,107 --> 00:17:49,109
I said, "All right,
Mom, we gotta talk.
422
00:17:49,151 --> 00:17:54,239
Apparently, this whole thing
that happened with me as a kid
423
00:17:54,323 --> 00:17:57,910
is really affecting me,
so I need to fix this."
424
00:17:57,951 --> 00:17:58,702
Mm-hm.
425
00:17:58,702 --> 00:18:01,914
And that's where she verbalized
that she did actually speak to
426
00:18:01,955 --> 00:18:03,582
my uncle.
427
00:18:03,624 --> 00:18:07,086
She did actually try to keep him
away from us -- or at least from
428
00:18:07,127 --> 00:18:09,463
me -- and I have
never heard her say that.
429
00:18:09,505 --> 00:18:12,257
Wait, when did
she speak with him?
430
00:18:12,299 --> 00:18:15,928
I guess after-- she
said that I told her.
431
00:18:15,969 --> 00:18:18,430
So I don't remember telling her.
432
00:18:18,472 --> 00:18:20,599
Yeah, she said you told
her around eight or nine.
433
00:18:20,641 --> 00:18:23,769
Yeah, and then
she said, "You know,
434
00:18:23,811 --> 00:18:26,647
Cyndy, there's a lot of things
that I went through when I was
435
00:18:26,688 --> 00:18:28,774
younger...
436
00:18:28,816 --> 00:18:31,276
but I don't think
about that anymore."
437
00:18:31,318 --> 00:18:32,945
And I'm like, "Okay."
438
00:18:32,986 --> 00:18:34,446
And I said, "Do you
wanna talk about it?"
439
00:18:34,488 --> 00:18:35,823
And she goes, "I don't
wanna talk about it;
440
00:18:35,864 --> 00:18:38,283
it's gonna bring it up again."
441
00:18:38,325 --> 00:18:39,827
So I just...
442
00:18:39,868 --> 00:18:42,329
let it be.
443
00:18:42,371 --> 00:18:45,457
How did you feel after
this conversation with her?
444
00:18:45,499 --> 00:18:47,292
I felt like...
lighter.
445
00:18:47,334 --> 00:18:48,627
Yeah.
446
00:18:48,669 --> 00:18:51,505
Like, I felt like...
447
00:18:55,509 --> 00:18:56,969
like I was just able to breathe.
448
00:18:57,010 --> 00:18:58,637
Mm-hm.
449
00:18:58,679 --> 00:19:01,306
That's very moving.
450
00:19:01,348 --> 00:19:04,601
Yeah, it, um...
451
00:19:06,019 --> 00:19:09,189
I'm hoping that
this'll change...
452
00:19:09,231 --> 00:19:12,484
the relationship that
we currently have...
453
00:19:12,526 --> 00:19:13,986
'cause I don't wanna--
454
00:19:14,027 --> 00:19:16,155
Well, you have at least a
little bit of information
455
00:19:16,196 --> 00:19:17,990
that...
456
00:19:18,031 --> 00:19:19,992
you can't really go back on...
457
00:19:20,033 --> 00:19:21,618
Yeah.
458
00:19:21,660 --> 00:19:23,662
That you did say something,
which I think will change how
459
00:19:23,704 --> 00:19:25,497
you feel about yourself.
460
00:19:25,539 --> 00:19:26,999
Yes.
461
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,836
And it actually did...
462
00:19:30,878 --> 00:19:34,173
even just, like, the slight...
463
00:19:34,214 --> 00:19:35,674
changes.
464
00:19:35,716 --> 00:19:38,343
I can see how keeping to
myself, not saying anything,
465
00:19:38,385 --> 00:19:40,345
not expressing
how I was feeling,
466
00:19:40,387 --> 00:19:41,847
it came out in action.
467
00:19:41,889 --> 00:19:43,182
Mm-hm.
468
00:19:43,223 --> 00:19:46,685
And how those actions
started to affect us.
469
00:19:46,727 --> 00:19:48,687
-Yeah.
-So that's helping.
470
00:19:48,729 --> 00:19:51,023
-Yeah.
-Wonderful.
471
00:19:51,064 --> 00:19:55,360
So something I want us to
think about together is:
472
00:19:55,402 --> 00:19:58,697
What are each of
you gonna take from...
473
00:19:58,739 --> 00:20:01,033
our work?
474
00:20:01,074 --> 00:20:05,704
Just as something you can
go back to internally...
475
00:20:05,746 --> 00:20:09,041
if things slide back.
476
00:20:09,082 --> 00:20:13,212
For me, the biggest thing is
staying present -- like not
477
00:20:13,253 --> 00:20:16,590
switching off the
light, you know?
478
00:20:16,632 --> 00:20:18,383
Being communicative.
479
00:20:18,425 --> 00:20:20,385
Mm-hm, that's very, very big.
480
00:20:20,427 --> 00:20:21,762
That's one of
your biggest things.
481
00:20:21,803 --> 00:20:23,555
-Yeah.
-You're doing good.
482
00:20:23,597 --> 00:20:25,224
And for you, Cyn?
483
00:20:25,265 --> 00:20:27,726
Um...
484
00:20:27,768 --> 00:20:29,728
I'm gonna just keep
telling you what I want.
485
00:20:29,770 --> 00:20:31,605
But also want--
486
00:20:31,647 --> 00:20:34,233
You've
always told me what you want.
487
00:20:34,274 --> 00:20:37,277
I think it's more of being
completely honest with her, too.
488
00:20:37,319 --> 00:20:38,737
Mm-hm.
489
00:20:38,779 --> 00:20:40,614
You know, there are times
where I'll tell you stuff,
490
00:20:40,656 --> 00:20:44,076
but I, you know,
omit little details.
491
00:20:44,117 --> 00:20:46,245
Like?
492
00:20:46,286 --> 00:20:48,121
Like crushes.
493
00:20:48,163 --> 00:20:50,415
If I would say I have a crush,
you would just look at it as
494
00:20:50,457 --> 00:20:52,584
"Oh, it's
something that's little,"
495
00:20:52,626 --> 00:20:55,087
but it's not a little
thing, it's a big thing.
496
00:20:55,128 --> 00:20:56,755
Um...
497
00:20:56,797 --> 00:21:00,926
so things like
that, I wouldn't...
498
00:21:00,968 --> 00:21:04,263
keep that from you.
499
00:21:07,641 --> 00:21:09,142
Mm.
500
00:21:09,184 --> 00:21:11,979
And what's your reaction?
501
00:21:12,020 --> 00:21:15,065
I think it's bullshit.
502
00:21:15,148 --> 00:21:18,110
It's bullshit.
503
00:21:18,151 --> 00:21:19,653
-Mm-hm.
-It's like...
504
00:21:19,695 --> 00:21:23,740
right now, I feel raw.
I have all my emotions...
505
00:21:35,043 --> 00:21:36,670
It's just fucked up.
506
00:21:36,712 --> 00:21:38,297
You know,
like I feel like I have all my
507
00:21:38,338 --> 00:21:40,966
emotions on my skin...
508
00:21:41,008 --> 00:21:44,803
like, on my surface, and then...
509
00:21:44,845 --> 00:21:47,514
I'm saying what I would do...
510
00:21:47,556 --> 00:21:52,311
to not fall back
into our old habits...
511
00:21:52,352 --> 00:21:54,146
and you're
worried about crushes?
512
00:21:54,187 --> 00:21:56,815
Like, that's...
513
00:21:56,857 --> 00:21:59,318
bullshit.
514
00:22:01,028 --> 00:22:03,697
Why do
you think of that?
515
00:22:03,739 --> 00:22:06,325
This is me just trying to be...
516
00:22:06,366 --> 00:22:08,035
honest with you.
517
00:22:08,076 --> 00:22:11,663
But why bring it up now,
at this particular moment?
518
00:22:11,705 --> 00:22:13,540
I'm not saying
that as a critique.
519
00:22:13,582 --> 00:22:16,668
-Mm.
-I'm really curious.
520
00:22:19,004 --> 00:22:21,840
Is that, like, self-sabotage?
521
00:22:21,882 --> 00:22:24,676
It's like you're
saying something like...
522
00:22:24,718 --> 00:22:27,220
"But I'm still...
523
00:22:27,262 --> 00:22:30,474
a source of danger."
524
00:22:31,266 --> 00:22:33,727
It's not like I was...
525
00:22:33,769 --> 00:22:38,023
you know, meaning to-- to
hurt you all over again.
526
00:22:38,523 --> 00:22:42,861
It was just an
example that I used.
527
00:22:42,903 --> 00:22:45,572
I honestly didn't
think of it that way.
528
00:22:45,614 --> 00:22:49,493
And I didn't mean to
make you feel this way.
529
00:22:51,578 --> 00:22:54,873
I think what would be helpful
at this point is not-- Cyn,
530
00:22:54,915 --> 00:22:59,252
not for you to feel
like you need to...
531
00:22:59,294 --> 00:23:02,381
dig yourself out
of some kind of...
532
00:23:02,422 --> 00:23:04,716
-Hole.
-Hole that you fell into...
533
00:23:04,758 --> 00:23:06,259
Mm-hm.
534
00:23:06,301 --> 00:23:10,931
But to ask yourself why did
you create that hole right now.
535
00:23:10,972 --> 00:23:14,559
And Cyn, I would not...
536
00:23:14,601 --> 00:23:16,895
turn this into a big
conversation between the two of
537
00:23:16,937 --> 00:23:19,606
you, but I would
turn it inward into,
538
00:23:19,648 --> 00:23:22,442
like, asking yourself
what, unconsciously,
539
00:23:22,484 --> 00:23:24,403
were you...
540
00:23:24,444 --> 00:23:25,195
Trying to say?
541
00:23:25,237 --> 00:23:29,408
Trying to do or communicate or
communicate to yourself or to
542
00:23:29,449 --> 00:23:31,743
Yaya.
543
00:23:31,785 --> 00:23:34,037
Mm.
544
00:23:34,246 --> 00:23:36,581
Or to me.
545
00:23:36,623 --> 00:23:39,251
Maybe you're
saying something to me.
546
00:23:39,292 --> 00:23:40,460
Mm.
547
00:23:40,502 --> 00:23:43,422
Maybe you're telling
me our work is not done.
548
00:23:46,466 --> 00:23:51,054
tender piano music
549
00:24:00,188 --> 00:24:05,277
I've been
staring out my window
550
00:24:06,820 --> 00:24:11,241
Not sure if I have
the strength to go
551
00:24:13,869 --> 00:24:17,581
Been staring out
this window
552
00:24:19,499 --> 00:24:23,587
Knowing I can't
stay no more
553
00:24:27,007 --> 00:24:30,427
I've been thinkin'
'bout my own self
554
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,434
I've been thinkin'
'bout my own self
555
00:24:39,853 --> 00:24:43,482
So I need to lift
from this perch
556
00:24:45,859 --> 00:24:50,155
I need to find the
strength for my search
45350
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