All language subtitles for Couples Therapy (2019) - S03E07 - 307 (1080p AMZN WEB-DL x265 Silence)_track3_[eng]

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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:09,718 --> 00:00:11,512 Yours         actually came out good. 2 00:00:11,553 --> 00:00:12,638 Yours came out nice. 3 00:00:12,679 --> 00:00:13,931 I was like, "Um--" 4 00:00:13,972 --> 00:00:16,141 I was       surprised yours came out... 5 00:00:16,183 --> 00:00:17,476 Oh... 6 00:00:17,518 --> 00:00:20,395 Lemme see, turn? 7 00:00:21,355 --> 00:00:22,648 You do have to dye                 your hair, though. 8 00:00:22,689 --> 00:00:23,982 Mm-hm. 9 00:00:24,024 --> 00:00:25,692 -I see a lotta...          -White? 10 00:00:25,734 --> 00:00:27,528 Yeah, you're               salt 'n' pepper now. 11 00:00:29,738 --> 00:00:30,739 Hello 12 00:00:30,781 --> 00:00:33,325 -Hi, Orna!              -Hey. 13 00:00:33,367 --> 00:00:34,701 You're gonna      ask us how are we, right? 14 00:00:34,743 --> 00:00:35,702 How are you? 15 00:00:37,579 --> 00:00:39,873 Um... 16 00:00:39,915 --> 00:00:42,376 Well, we finally          had sex.  17 00:00:42,417 --> 00:00:47,464 upbeat theme music 18 00:00:51,927 --> 00:00:53,595 -You did?! 19 00:00:53,637 --> 00:00:54,763 We did, yeah, we                  took your advice. 20 00:00:54,805 --> 00:00:55,889 -Great!            -Yeah. 21 00:00:55,931 --> 00:00:57,432 Yeah, you lit some                 fire up our butt. 22 00:00:57,474 --> 00:00:59,226 That wasn't even, like, advice;  it didn't feel like advice. 23 00:00:59,268 --> 00:01:01,395 -It's like "Go do it now."      -That was a prescription. 24 00:01:01,436 --> 00:01:02,521 Yeah, yeah, literally. 25 00:01:02,563 --> 00:01:03,313 "Like, you                need to go, like... 26 00:01:03,355 --> 00:01:06,149 Like, when you leave here, you    need to just go home and pack 27 00:01:06,191 --> 00:01:06,900 your bags." 28 00:01:08,443 --> 00:01:09,736 So I think I did the hardest    thing I could ever  29 00:01:09,778 --> 00:01:11,321 have done.       I felt like I sold my-- 30 00:01:11,363 --> 00:01:13,073 -Oh, she did.        -My soul to the Devil. 31 00:01:13,115 --> 00:01:14,741 Okay. 32 00:01:14,783 --> 00:01:16,743 -I called my mother--     -Wow. 33 00:01:16,785 --> 00:01:19,746 And I asked her to come stay     at our house with her mom-- 34 00:01:19,788 --> 00:01:21,540 Yeah, that a big move. 35 00:01:21,582 --> 00:01:23,709 So that we could do  this, like we can go away. 36 00:01:23,750 --> 00:01:25,085 Very interesting. 37 00:01:25,127 --> 00:01:26,587 That I called  her, right?  38 00:01:26,628 --> 00:01:29,590 That the whole session       started with your moms. 39 00:01:29,631 --> 00:01:31,425 I mean, I don't know       yet what to make of it, 40 00:01:31,466 --> 00:01:33,135 but it's interesting. 41 00:01:33,176 --> 00:01:34,636 That's how                    it all started. 42 00:01:34,678 --> 00:01:35,762 That's, like, a  big step for me-- 43 00:01:35,804 --> 00:01:37,222 Yes. 44 00:01:37,264 --> 00:01:38,599 -To, you know--          -Very big. 45 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:39,766 'Cause I was just  like, "Crap." 46 00:01:39,808 --> 00:01:41,602 -Mm-hm.       -So we went away. 47 00:01:41,643 --> 00:01:43,604 It was, like,      beautiful mountain views, 48 00:01:43,645 --> 00:01:45,397 and it just felt          so calming for me. 49 00:01:45,439 --> 00:01:46,940 Yeah. 50 00:01:46,982 --> 00:01:48,650 And I was just like, "Oh...    Let's see if she'll wake up." 51 00:01:48,692 --> 00:01:50,402 She was like, "Honey,"  and I was like, "Oh, okay." 52 00:01:50,444 --> 00:01:52,154 We got     into it real quick.  53 00:01:52,195 --> 00:01:55,782 But, you know, this is    what I was hoping for, right? 54 00:01:55,824 --> 00:01:57,618 That you would         allow yourselves to, 55 00:01:57,659 --> 00:02:00,454 like, get over this        kind of phobic block, 56 00:02:00,495 --> 00:02:01,913 and first, just connect. 57 00:02:01,955 --> 00:02:02,956 -Mm-hm.            -Yeah. 58 00:02:02,998 --> 00:02:04,124 We were enjoying ourselves, 59 00:02:04,166 --> 00:02:04,791 but we were probably,        like, in our heads. 60 00:02:04,833 --> 00:02:05,959 Mm-hm. 61 00:02:06,001 --> 00:02:07,127 You know,            because subconsciously, 62 00:02:07,169 --> 00:02:08,378 that was, like, in              the back of my mind-- 63 00:02:08,420 --> 00:02:09,880 Mm-hm. 64 00:02:09,921 --> 00:02:12,049 Like, "Oh my God, is this    gonna be good enough for her?" 65 00:02:12,090 --> 00:02:13,467 Mm-hm. 66 00:02:13,508 --> 00:02:16,136 Like, I tried to stay, like,     in the moment, and I did. 67 00:02:16,178 --> 00:02:17,471 No, you were. 68 00:02:17,512 --> 00:02:20,390 I did, I was in the        moment, I was present. 69 00:02:20,432 --> 00:02:22,476 And it was good. 70 00:02:22,517 --> 00:02:24,770 I did tell her we've had... 71 00:02:24,811 --> 00:02:26,772 to me, more... 72 00:02:26,813 --> 00:02:28,398 just, like, eventful sex. 73 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:29,816 Mm-hm. 74 00:02:29,858 --> 00:02:31,652 But I understood it       just needed to be done. 75 00:02:31,693 --> 00:02:32,402 Right. 76 00:02:32,402 --> 00:02:34,154 It just needed to be--    the bandaid needed to be 77 00:02:34,196 --> 00:02:35,781 ripped off. 78 00:02:35,822 --> 00:02:37,324 I think I was also trying to    get emotionally into it and I 79 00:02:37,366 --> 00:02:38,867 couldn't get         emotionally into it. 80 00:02:38,909 --> 00:02:39,868 Mm-hm. 81 00:02:39,910 --> 00:02:41,662 Which was slightly         frustrating for me. 82 00:02:41,703 --> 00:02:43,872 Yeah, but then you're      putting so much pressure-- 83 00:02:43,914 --> 00:02:46,667 Both of you are  putting so much pressure. 84 00:02:46,708 --> 00:02:50,212 I mean, slowly,     slowly, small steps, like... 85 00:02:50,253 --> 00:02:51,505 Yeah. 86 00:02:51,546 --> 00:02:54,049 But the          emotional aspect of it... 87 00:02:54,091 --> 00:02:55,133 I'm disconnected. 88 00:02:55,175 --> 00:02:57,511 -Mm-hm.            -And... 89 00:02:57,552 --> 00:03:00,681 it had nothing to do with her.  She's-- it was-- it was all me. 90 00:03:00,722 --> 00:03:01,473 Yeah. 91 00:03:01,473 --> 00:03:04,059 Where I'm like-- I don't have  the emotional connection to it. 92 00:03:04,101 --> 00:03:05,769 Have you ever? 93 00:03:05,811 --> 00:03:07,646 -I don't think I have.        -Mm-hm. 94 00:03:07,688 --> 00:03:09,106 I think it's just always--     and I think it's always just 95 00:03:09,147 --> 00:03:10,649 been an activity. 96 00:03:10,691 --> 00:03:12,651 -Yeah.  -It's like it-- there's a goal-- 97 00:03:12,693 --> 00:03:14,861 You need something that's      outside of you, in a way. 98 00:03:14,903 --> 00:03:16,446 Yeah! 99 00:03:16,488 --> 00:03:18,657 Like, even though I       have all these desires, 100 00:03:18,699 --> 00:03:21,284 there's no emotional     connection to these desires. 101 00:03:21,326 --> 00:03:22,869 Mm-hm. 102 00:03:22,911 --> 00:03:25,288 My emotional       connection is with her, 103 00:03:25,330 --> 00:03:29,209 and I just need to find a way    to mesh the emotion and the 104 00:03:29,251 --> 00:03:33,046 activity and just... 105 00:03:33,088 --> 00:03:34,840 all be her. 106 00:03:34,881 --> 00:03:38,468 That makes a lot of sense,  but there's a lot more that you 107 00:03:38,510 --> 00:03:43,557 could be doing with each other  that will help you to reconnect. 108 00:03:44,224 --> 00:03:46,059 Okay, so... 109 00:03:46,101 --> 00:03:47,561 what are you talking about? 110 00:03:47,602 --> 00:03:49,104 I'm talking about, like,      just exploring each other, 111 00:03:49,146 --> 00:03:50,731 how it feels. 112 00:03:50,772 --> 00:03:54,192 I mean, I don't know, focus on  a particular sensation and just 113 00:03:54,234 --> 00:03:58,280 stay there, and connect...there. 114 00:03:58,321 --> 00:04:00,407 -Hm.            -We could try. 115 00:04:00,449 --> 00:04:03,452 -Just be present.          -Yeah. 116 00:04:03,493 --> 00:04:05,746 Hm. 117 00:04:08,123 --> 00:04:09,750 Can I send you some literature? 118 00:04:09,791 --> 00:04:11,168 Yeah! 119 00:04:11,209 --> 00:04:12,836 Absolutely, 'cause my    wheels are turning right now. 120 00:04:12,878 --> 00:04:15,505 I will send you a        book, maybe even two. 121 00:04:15,547 --> 00:04:17,924 Okay. 122 00:04:18,175 --> 00:04:19,885 -Are you blushing?          -I'm not. 123 00:04:19,926 --> 00:04:21,511 Yes, you... 124 00:04:21,553 --> 00:04:23,513 I'm not, but I just like  the energy we have right now, 125 00:04:23,555 --> 00:04:26,266 so...           I'm enjoying it. 126 00:04:26,308 --> 00:04:29,895 -Mm-hm.     -I'm staying present, so... 127 00:04:29,936 --> 00:04:33,607 cool funky music 128 00:05:00,842 --> 00:05:03,136 Let's talk          about India and Dale. 129 00:05:03,178 --> 00:05:06,932 I'm looking for a language      of how to help expand the 130 00:05:06,973 --> 00:05:08,725 conversation with them. 131 00:05:08,767 --> 00:05:10,310 Can I         just ask a question? 132 00:05:10,352 --> 00:05:12,312 Has your whiteness        been named with them? 133 00:05:12,354 --> 00:05:13,522 In what way? 134 00:05:13,563 --> 00:05:15,524 Did they ever       challenge you about it? 135 00:05:15,565 --> 00:05:17,776 No. 136 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,153 I want them to. 137 00:05:20,195 --> 00:05:21,822 -Mm.              -How? 138 00:05:21,863 --> 00:05:24,157 I think it would          be inquiring deeper about 139 00:05:24,199 --> 00:05:25,242 that difference. 140 00:05:25,283 --> 00:05:26,660 Yeah. 141 00:05:26,701 --> 00:05:28,995 Because I think they're      showing themselves but... 142 00:05:29,037 --> 00:05:32,958 I'm-- there's    obviously more layers to them. 143 00:05:32,999 --> 00:05:37,170 Like, she tells the story about  getting into an argument about 144 00:05:37,212 --> 00:05:40,841 Sandra Bland, and I kept  thinking about how she feels so 145 00:05:40,882 --> 00:05:43,343 much pressure to live       up to Dale's standards. 146 00:05:43,385 --> 00:05:45,011 Mm-hm. 147 00:05:45,053 --> 00:05:47,013 I feel like there's a way      Dale wants to silence her. 148 00:05:47,055 --> 00:05:48,348 Mm-hm. 149 00:05:48,390 --> 00:05:51,268 Because of his own internal... 150 00:05:51,309 --> 00:05:52,978 -Insecurities.        -Yeah. 151 00:05:53,019 --> 00:05:54,855 That is that         internalized racism. 152 00:05:54,896 --> 00:05:56,398 Mm-hm. 153 00:05:56,439 --> 00:05:58,859 Like, if they were       able to describe that... 154 00:05:58,900 --> 00:06:01,027 Right.  But how do you get there? 155 00:06:01,069 --> 00:06:02,404 I think                asking how it felt. 156 00:06:02,445 --> 00:06:03,780 Mm-hm. 157 00:06:03,822 --> 00:06:04,531 And you could even          be like, "I know, 158 00:06:04,573 --> 00:06:08,034 like, I'm a white therapist,  but could you help me understand 159 00:06:08,076 --> 00:06:10,412 what this feels like       from your perspective?" 160 00:06:10,453 --> 00:06:12,706 Mm-hm. 161 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:15,792 It was a tough week... 162 00:06:15,834 --> 00:06:17,878 starting from      leaving the last session. 163 00:06:17,919 --> 00:06:18,962 Mm-hm. 164 00:06:19,004 --> 00:06:20,964 We got into a heated         discussion about it. 165 00:06:21,006 --> 00:06:22,799 About this          christening party? 166 00:06:22,841 --> 00:06:23,508 Yeah. 167 00:06:23,550 --> 00:06:27,053 I feel like he is the only      person that walked out of 168 00:06:27,095 --> 00:06:29,306 that situation... 169 00:06:29,347 --> 00:06:31,057 uneasy. 170 00:06:31,099 --> 00:06:33,226 I'm not saying that        what happened is okay, 171 00:06:33,268 --> 00:06:34,895 but it does happen, you know? 172 00:06:34,936 --> 00:06:36,062 Mm-hm. 173 00:06:36,104 --> 00:06:37,689 He has      somewhere, at some point, 174 00:06:37,731 --> 00:06:39,900 disconnected from         almost all emotions, 175 00:06:39,941 --> 00:06:41,860 because it's not         just angry emotions. 176 00:06:41,902 --> 00:06:45,530 I feel like when I'm trying to  connect with him being silly or 177 00:06:45,572 --> 00:06:47,032 overly happy or-- 178 00:06:47,073 --> 00:06:49,075 -Mm-hm.        -It's always too much. 179 00:06:49,117 --> 00:06:51,244 He never taps in. 180 00:06:51,286 --> 00:06:53,914 It's not that I         don't have emotions. 181 00:06:53,955 --> 00:06:56,249 I've cried plenty of  times in front of India, I've... 182 00:06:56,291 --> 00:06:57,334 Mm-hm. 183 00:06:57,375 --> 00:07:00,462 But how many times       have we cried together? 184 00:07:00,503 --> 00:07:01,963 -Um...       -It's the connectivity. 185 00:07:02,005 --> 00:07:03,924 -Interesting.          -You know? 186 00:07:03,965 --> 00:07:05,508 We haven't-- I don't       think we've had anything 187 00:07:05,550 --> 00:07:07,427 really where... 188 00:07:07,469 --> 00:07:11,056 it's like we needed to        cry together over it. 189 00:07:11,097 --> 00:07:12,515 I mean... 190 00:07:12,557 --> 00:07:14,643 the birth of a child.  191 00:07:14,684 --> 00:07:16,102 Mm-hm. 192 00:07:16,144 --> 00:07:17,437 There are times that I'm     trying to connect with you, 193 00:07:17,479 --> 00:07:19,439 and I feel like       I'm-- the bar is missed. 194 00:07:19,481 --> 00:07:21,316 Okay, okay.                    I-- I get that. 195 00:07:21,358 --> 00:07:23,109 -Emotionally.            -Yeah. 196 00:07:23,151 --> 00:07:25,236 But do you     recognize something in that? 197 00:07:25,278 --> 00:07:26,738 No, no,  yeah, absolutely. 198 00:07:26,780 --> 00:07:29,449 I mean, I think the  industry that I'm in, 199 00:07:29,491 --> 00:07:30,951 when I started         out in real estate, 200 00:07:30,992 --> 00:07:34,079 I would get-- sometimes, I    would get so high off of maybe 201 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,289 something happening, and then  it turns out it doesn't happen. 202 00:07:36,331 --> 00:07:37,707 Mm-hm. 203 00:07:37,749 --> 00:07:39,125 And then, you have to pick  yourself up and be able to work 204 00:07:39,167 --> 00:07:40,585 again, you know? 205 00:07:40,627 --> 00:07:42,462 So I've trained         myself to, you know, 206 00:07:42,504 --> 00:07:44,297 kind of be just kind         of even-keel and-- 207 00:07:44,339 --> 00:07:47,092 You've probably trained      yourself to be even-keeled 208 00:07:47,133 --> 00:07:51,137 about...  other things, too, emotionally. 209 00:07:51,179 --> 00:07:52,597 Mm-hm. 210 00:07:52,639 --> 00:07:57,602 And maybe when you see a     lot more going on in India, 211 00:07:57,644 --> 00:07:58,979 more feelings... 212 00:07:59,020 --> 00:08:00,313 Mm-hm. 213 00:08:00,355 --> 00:08:01,982 Some kind of        alarm goes off in you. 214 00:08:02,023 --> 00:08:04,275 Yeah. 215 00:08:04,317 --> 00:08:06,111 Definitely. 216 00:08:06,152 --> 00:08:09,280 What if you asked  yourself "I seem to be alarmed. 217 00:08:09,322 --> 00:08:11,282 Am I jealous? 218 00:08:11,324 --> 00:08:14,160 Have I had to... 219 00:08:14,202 --> 00:08:16,496 cut things off?" 220 00:08:16,538 --> 00:08:19,708 Yeah, for sure, it's       not-- it's not jealousy. 221 00:08:19,749 --> 00:08:20,959 Um... 222 00:08:21,001 --> 00:08:23,378 I wouldn't be completely... 223 00:08:23,420 --> 00:08:25,380 -Yeah!            -Convinced. 224 00:08:25,422 --> 00:08:29,384 Well, I do admire the fact     that she can act freely with 225 00:08:29,426 --> 00:08:30,969 her emotions. 226 00:08:31,011 --> 00:08:33,972 Mm-hm, yes. 227 00:08:34,014 --> 00:08:36,516 I think, also, for        me, being a Black man, 228 00:08:36,558 --> 00:08:37,934 that's a little bit different. 229 00:08:37,976 --> 00:08:39,144 Right. 230 00:08:39,185 --> 00:08:41,771 I'm not allowed, in      society, to just....be... 231 00:08:41,813 --> 00:08:43,189 be mad. 232 00:08:43,231 --> 00:08:44,983 Mm-hm. 233 00:08:45,025 --> 00:08:46,818 You know, hell, there are     nights that I take Lincoln, 234 00:08:46,860 --> 00:08:51,197 our dog, out for a walk, and  I'm not even allowed to be cold. 235 00:08:51,239 --> 00:08:53,658 If I put my hoodie on and      I'm walking next to someone-- 236 00:08:53,700 --> 00:08:56,036 Right. 237 00:08:56,077 --> 00:08:58,872 Immediately, they'll stop and     wait for me to pass, you know? 238 00:08:58,913 --> 00:09:00,373 -Mm-hm.           -I'm just cold. 239 00:09:00,415 --> 00:09:01,791 -Right.          -You know? 240 00:09:01,833 --> 00:09:03,293 But--  241 00:09:03,334 --> 00:09:05,128 I don't wanna get too        much into that but-- 242 00:09:05,170 --> 00:09:07,172 You can get into that.              I mean... 243 00:09:07,213 --> 00:09:08,339 why not? 244 00:09:08,381 --> 00:09:10,133 It matters. 245 00:09:10,175 --> 00:09:11,593 It--  246 00:09:11,634 --> 00:09:13,762 It's a luxury that I don't have. 247 00:09:13,803 --> 00:09:15,346 Mm-hm. 248 00:09:15,388 --> 00:09:17,140 And regardless of-- 249 00:09:17,182 --> 00:09:20,143 But even with that, did  you see what just happened? 250 00:09:20,185 --> 00:09:21,686 Yeah. 251 00:09:21,728 --> 00:09:24,773 There are a lot of moments like  this where I'm almost like... 252 00:09:24,814 --> 00:09:26,775 "Are we sharing the same    Black experience?"  253 00:09:26,816 --> 00:09:27,984 -Yeah.       -Well, of course we are. 254 00:09:28,026 --> 00:09:29,861 Because I know you are  going through what Black men go 255 00:09:29,903 --> 00:09:32,197 through, but you         don't tap into that, 256 00:09:32,238 --> 00:09:35,366 you don't talk about that, so... 257 00:09:35,408 --> 00:09:36,993 Can I ask you... 258 00:09:37,035 --> 00:09:39,788 India, you said earlier that     it's different to speak to 259 00:09:39,829 --> 00:09:43,875 someone who's other         than to each other. 260 00:09:43,917 --> 00:09:46,836 Do you feel, as a          person of color, 261 00:09:46,878 --> 00:09:51,091 a lot of      discomfort to talk to me? 262 00:09:51,716 --> 00:09:55,095 I feel like I have to... 263 00:09:55,136 --> 00:09:56,221 dress it up a bit-- 264 00:09:56,262 --> 00:09:57,889 -Mm-hm.          -For you. 265 00:09:57,931 --> 00:09:59,432 -Mm-hm.            -Um... 266 00:09:59,474 --> 00:10:01,226 Dress it up so I           will understand? 267 00:10:01,267 --> 00:10:03,436 Or dress it up so I will not... 268 00:10:03,478 --> 00:10:04,854 Yeah, dress it up        so you'll understand. 269 00:10:04,896 --> 00:10:05,897 Mm-hm. 270 00:10:05,939 --> 00:10:06,606 You              know, from our scope. 271 00:10:06,648 --> 00:10:08,108 Mm-hm. 272 00:10:08,149 --> 00:10:09,859 Because there is still the     layer of "I'm speaking to a 273 00:10:09,901 --> 00:10:13,113 white woman right now, I need  to address it in a certain way." 274 00:10:13,154 --> 00:10:15,240 -Yeah.    -But I wanna face it head-on. 275 00:10:15,281 --> 00:10:16,449 Mm-hm. 276 00:10:16,491 --> 00:10:18,785 I wanna talk to you,     the white person, about it. 277 00:10:18,827 --> 00:10:19,911 Yeah. 278 00:10:19,953 --> 00:10:21,246 'Cause this is how          we move forward-- 279 00:10:21,287 --> 00:10:22,455 -Absolutely.     -This is how we get better. 280 00:10:22,497 --> 00:10:23,957 Mm-hm. 281 00:10:23,998 --> 00:10:26,292 We just have to face  the traumatic emotions head-on. 282 00:10:26,334 --> 00:10:29,671 Right, strong        feelings like...anger. 283 00:10:29,712 --> 00:10:32,132 Yeah, right! 284 00:10:32,173 --> 00:10:34,926 And I think the difference     between the two of us is he 285 00:10:34,968 --> 00:10:37,137 doesn't-- you know, he does     not want to acknowledge his 286 00:10:37,178 --> 00:10:38,138 emotions. 287 00:10:38,179 --> 00:10:39,347 Mm-hm. 288 00:10:39,389 --> 00:10:40,807 He-- he talks        about it briefly but, 289 00:10:40,849 --> 00:10:42,308 you know, it's         balled up, move on. 290 00:10:42,350 --> 00:10:44,477 No, I've shared                with you, you know, 291 00:10:44,519 --> 00:10:46,938 the beginning stages of me     starting a business and what 292 00:10:46,980 --> 00:10:48,314 that was like being a Black man. 293 00:10:48,356 --> 00:10:49,691 Yeah. 294 00:10:49,732 --> 00:10:52,152 I mean, I had people coming to  my office -- that was set up in 295 00:10:52,193 --> 00:10:55,363 an office building --  asking me if I'm running a scam. 296 00:10:57,198 --> 00:11:00,743 As feel as though I can either    let it get me upset and bog me 297 00:11:00,785 --> 00:11:05,165 down, or I can push  through and make things happen. 298 00:11:05,206 --> 00:11:07,750 I choose to push through       and make things happen. 299 00:11:07,792 --> 00:11:10,295 But there's some way that     you deal with the emotional 300 00:11:10,336 --> 00:11:14,174 implications of whatever  we're talking about differently. 301 00:11:14,215 --> 00:11:15,925 Yeah. 302 00:11:15,967 --> 00:11:18,511 And I think India is suggesting  that you do some kind of 303 00:11:18,553 --> 00:11:23,057 dissociation there, that you     cut yourself off from that. 304 00:11:29,564 --> 00:11:32,567 I-- I'm a li-- I--    I'm always torn between that, 305 00:11:32,609 --> 00:11:34,360 because it's like... 306 00:11:34,402 --> 00:11:36,196 you know, what am I      supposed to do with that, 307 00:11:36,237 --> 00:11:37,197 you know? 308 00:11:37,238 --> 00:11:38,531 Mm-hm. 309 00:11:38,573 --> 00:11:40,992 It's like I'm here trying to    just make a living for myself. 310 00:11:41,034 --> 00:11:42,202 What am I supposed          to do with that? 311 00:11:42,243 --> 00:11:45,413 Yeah. 312 00:11:47,248 --> 00:11:48,875 I'm sorry. 313 00:11:48,917 --> 00:11:50,752 Why are you sorry? 314 00:11:50,793 --> 00:11:53,046 Well, the way I see it      sometimes is that even the 315 00:11:53,087 --> 00:11:57,050 acknowledgment is so taxing. 316 00:11:57,175 --> 00:11:58,718 So... 317 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:02,722 I don't know, sometimes       I choose just not to... 318 00:12:02,764 --> 00:12:05,558 not to give validation to it... 319 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,061 and just... 320 00:12:09,437 --> 00:12:12,815 But I just wanna understand;  so when you say-- when you allow 321 00:12:12,857 --> 00:12:15,068 yourself more       contact with feelings... 322 00:12:15,109 --> 00:12:16,402 Mm-hm. 323 00:12:16,444 --> 00:12:19,239 And you say, "What am I    supposed to do with this?.".. 324 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,032 what happens       between the two of you? 325 00:12:21,074 --> 00:12:26,079 Is there somewhere for that    to go between the two of you? 326 00:12:26,454 --> 00:12:29,207 Mm... 327 00:12:29,249 --> 00:12:32,877 Well, I mean, well--  328 00:12:32,919 --> 00:12:35,463 I would ask the question "What    is she supposed to do with it?" 329 00:12:35,505 --> 00:12:36,589 -Yeah.              -You know? 330 00:12:36,631 --> 00:12:38,258 It's-- it's... 331 00:12:38,299 --> 00:12:39,634 Obviously, I have          shared with her, 332 00:12:39,676 --> 00:12:41,427 but I don't         necessarily want a-- 333 00:12:41,469 --> 00:12:44,055 But do you get upset? 334 00:12:44,097 --> 00:12:45,598 -In that moment?           -Mm-hm. 335 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:47,809 -Uh, no, no, not really.  -He's just very matter-of-fact. 336 00:12:47,850 --> 00:12:49,435 -No. 337 00:12:49,477 --> 00:12:51,479 Because... 338 00:12:51,521 --> 00:12:54,899 first of all, that is, like, a    great burden to carry on your 339 00:12:54,941 --> 00:12:59,612 own, and even if you         dissociate from it, 340 00:12:59,654 --> 00:13:01,072 it's still there-- 341 00:13:01,114 --> 00:13:02,407 -Yeah.          -Weighing on you. 342 00:13:02,448 --> 00:13:04,242 Yeah. 343 00:13:04,284 --> 00:13:07,036 So there's plenty of things    that happen when you share it 344 00:13:07,078 --> 00:13:10,623 with another person       and you feel understood. 345 00:13:10,665 --> 00:13:12,875 -Mm-hm.       -It has this kind of... 346 00:13:12,917 --> 00:13:14,794 miraculous... 347 00:13:14,836 --> 00:13:18,464 power to transform very  difficult feelings to something 348 00:13:18,506 --> 00:13:20,466 that becomes useful. 349 00:13:20,508 --> 00:13:21,217 Yeah. 350 00:13:21,217 --> 00:13:25,263 And help the two of you    deepen what you have together. 351 00:13:25,305 --> 00:13:27,724 -Mm.                -Yeah. 352 00:13:27,765 --> 00:13:32,812 And it's-- and it's exactly what  I yearn for from her at times: 353 00:13:32,854 --> 00:13:35,940 to be more vulnerable. 354 00:13:35,982 --> 00:13:37,650 -Mm-hm.            -Yeah. 355 00:13:37,692 --> 00:13:40,611 Yeah. 356 00:13:41,738 --> 00:13:46,326 mellow folk music 357 00:14:17,148 --> 00:14:21,110 So I wanted          to go back to gender. 358 00:14:21,152 --> 00:14:24,489 I feel like there's this pattern  with these men that are not as 359 00:14:24,530 --> 00:14:29,369 expressive, and they        attach themselves to very 360 00:14:29,410 --> 00:14:30,536 expressive women. 361 00:14:30,578 --> 00:14:32,121 Mm-hm. 362 00:14:32,163 --> 00:14:34,540 And they develop this  somewhat-parasitic relationship 363 00:14:34,582 --> 00:14:35,708 with these women... 364 00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:36,959 Mm-hm. 365 00:14:37,001 --> 00:14:39,128 To keep doing that        kind of work for them. 366 00:14:39,170 --> 00:14:40,338 Mm. 367 00:14:40,380 --> 00:14:43,383 And I find that  with, like, Josh and Molly. 368 00:14:43,424 --> 00:14:44,592 Mm. 369 00:14:44,634 --> 00:14:45,760 It's like constantly         putting this kind of 370 00:14:45,802 --> 00:14:47,720 gas nozzle into her-- 371 00:14:47,762 --> 00:14:49,555 He's  actually feeding off her. 372 00:14:49,597 --> 00:14:51,391 Yes. 373 00:14:51,432 --> 00:14:55,019 And constantly inviting      her to emote towards him, 374 00:14:55,061 --> 00:14:58,856 whether by aggression       or love or demands or... 375 00:14:58,898 --> 00:15:03,194 But how about if we think about  it as a child -- a baby boy -- 376 00:15:03,236 --> 00:15:08,116 and a mother, and the        baby needs to feed. 377 00:15:08,157 --> 00:15:11,369 So in that sense, it's    not parasitic, it's survival. 378 00:15:11,411 --> 00:15:12,495 Mm-hm. 379 00:15:12,537 --> 00:15:14,372 But she's trying to      get things from him, too. 380 00:15:14,414 --> 00:15:15,748 Yes. 381 00:15:15,790 --> 00:15:17,583 And they're both         stuck in a paradox; 382 00:15:17,625 --> 00:15:20,420 she's asked to be          the needy one who, 383 00:15:20,461 --> 00:15:24,382 at the same time, provides... 384 00:15:24,424 --> 00:15:28,761 and he, he needs-- he       needs, but he cannot... 385 00:15:28,803 --> 00:15:29,929 say it. 386 00:15:29,971 --> 00:15:31,764 Yes. 387 00:15:31,806 --> 00:15:34,851 And this dynamic          drives her crazy. 388 00:15:34,892 --> 00:15:37,478 Mm. 389 00:15:39,230 --> 00:15:43,192 I got, for our family,  like, a calendar -- a whiteboard 390 00:15:43,234 --> 00:15:45,445 calendar -- so that we        can really keep track, 391 00:15:45,486 --> 00:15:47,613 'cause everyone's schedules     is getting kinda crazy. 392 00:15:47,655 --> 00:15:48,239 Mm-hm. 393 00:15:48,239 --> 00:15:51,826 And so,      everyone is a color, okay? 394 00:15:51,868 --> 00:15:53,077 Nice. 395 00:15:53,119 --> 00:15:55,079 So I said,     "Magnolia, pick your color. 396 00:15:55,121 --> 00:15:56,664 Vienna, pick your       color," and then I said, 397 00:15:56,706 --> 00:15:59,459 "Josh, pick your color. 398 00:15:59,500 --> 00:16:01,627 You can be any color." 399 00:16:01,669 --> 00:16:03,588 "I don't know,         should I be green?" 400 00:16:03,629 --> 00:16:05,214 -This is Josh speaking?       -Yes. 401 00:16:05,256 --> 00:16:07,800 "I don't know, should I be blue? 402 00:16:07,842 --> 00:16:09,844 This is hard; it's hard       for me to pick a color," 403 00:16:09,886 --> 00:16:13,181 and I said, "I just need you to  pick a color so that I can do 404 00:16:13,222 --> 00:16:16,017 what I need to do          for our family." 405 00:16:16,058 --> 00:16:18,644 And then he said, "Fine, green." 406 00:16:18,686 --> 00:16:21,606 And then, he excused      himself to go downstairs. 407 00:16:21,647 --> 00:16:22,482 Mm-hm. 408 00:16:22,523 --> 00:16:23,816 And I went        downstairs and I said, 409 00:16:23,858 --> 00:16:24,817 "Are you okay?" 410 00:16:24,859 --> 00:16:27,236 And he said, "I just-- I       just needed a moment." 411 00:16:27,278 --> 00:16:29,655 -Mm-hm. 412 00:16:29,697 --> 00:16:31,240 You're  laughing...? 413 00:16:31,282 --> 00:16:33,493 It's-- it's a      fucking dry eraser color. 414 00:16:33,534 --> 00:16:34,994 Well, no, I             actually think I said, 415 00:16:35,036 --> 00:16:36,996 "I don't care,           whatever color you want" 416 00:16:37,038 --> 00:16:38,664 I think is what I said. 417 00:16:38,706 --> 00:16:40,500 And you were like, "No,            I want you to choose," 418 00:16:40,541 --> 00:16:41,834 and then I was like, "Uh..." 419 00:16:41,876 --> 00:16:43,628 Because I don't wanna-- that's  extra work for me that I don't 420 00:16:43,669 --> 00:16:44,921 wanna have to do. 421 00:16:44,962 --> 00:16:46,506 "Green or purple.    I'm thinking green or purple." 422 00:16:46,547 --> 00:16:48,007 He should just... 423 00:16:48,049 --> 00:16:50,510 But it's hard to  choose between green and purple. 424 00:16:50,551 --> 00:16:53,679 Why...can't...you... 425 00:16:53,721 --> 00:16:56,724 make...a choice?  426 00:16:56,766 --> 00:16:59,352 Why?! 427 00:17:00,770 --> 00:17:02,647 I mean, look where it got     us when you couldn't make a 428 00:17:02,688 --> 00:17:06,984 decision about whether we should  have a third child or not. 429 00:17:09,278 --> 00:17:11,822 Can you-- I mean, we can       go back to the markers, 430 00:17:11,864 --> 00:17:15,076 but can you fill me in on this? 431 00:17:15,117 --> 00:17:19,539 We talked about if we should     have a third child or not. 432 00:17:19,580 --> 00:17:21,499 Mm-hm.         Who was saying what? 433 00:17:21,541 --> 00:17:24,043 I was                saying I wanted to. 434 00:17:24,085 --> 00:17:29,090 He was ambivalent but, as    we've talked about it further, 435 00:17:29,924 --> 00:17:34,512 was afraid to tell me no, 436 00:17:34,554 --> 00:17:39,308 or afraid to say "We need    more time to think about it." 437 00:17:39,350 --> 00:17:42,562 He just didn't make a choice. 438 00:17:42,603 --> 00:17:47,400 Wait, what-- what's-- tell    me your version of the story. 439 00:17:47,525 --> 00:17:51,404 Well, this is in-- this also  is when I-- this is the-- when I 440 00:17:51,445 --> 00:17:54,907 first got emotionally involved    with this person about eight 441 00:17:54,949 --> 00:17:56,576 years ago. 442 00:17:56,617 --> 00:18:01,205 I think at that time, I was very  confused about a lot of things, 443 00:18:01,247 --> 00:18:02,748 and... 444 00:18:02,790 --> 00:18:07,295 I've always       worried about keeping... 445 00:18:07,336 --> 00:18:09,297 you happy. 446 00:18:09,338 --> 00:18:11,757 I think probably at the time, I  knew it was something that was 447 00:18:11,799 --> 00:18:16,804 important to you, so it       didn't feel like my... 448 00:18:17,972 --> 00:18:22,727 qu-- question mark about     it was stronger than how you 449 00:18:22,768 --> 00:18:24,103 were feeling. 450 00:18:28,357 --> 00:18:32,903 The one thing that I have asked  for in our marriage that I have 451 00:18:32,945 --> 00:18:36,115 said will make me happy... 452 00:18:36,157 --> 00:18:41,203 is to talk with me about what    he wants or what he thinks, 453 00:18:41,662 --> 00:18:45,124 so that we can do          things together. 454 00:18:45,166 --> 00:18:48,377 I just want him to     include me in his questions. 455 00:18:48,419 --> 00:18:50,588 I don't need him         to make a decision. 456 00:18:50,630 --> 00:18:53,382 I just wanna be included. 457 00:18:53,424 --> 00:18:57,053 But what you're asking for  happens to be both difficult for 458 00:18:57,094 --> 00:18:58,638 Josh but also-- 459 00:18:58,679 --> 00:19:00,389 But then he should-- then he    shouldn't have stayed in this 460 00:19:00,431 --> 00:19:02,725 marriage in the first place,  because I've been asking for it 461 00:19:02,767 --> 00:19:04,101 from the beginning! 462 00:19:04,143 --> 00:19:05,561 Right, but the          solution to that, 463 00:19:05,603 --> 00:19:07,521 in your mind, is for Josh to-- 464 00:19:07,563 --> 00:19:08,731 I don't know  what the solution is! 465 00:19:08,773 --> 00:19:10,358 I need he-- I want he-- 466 00:19:10,399 --> 00:19:11,567 I'm trying to talk to you. 467 00:19:11,609 --> 00:19:12,943 Okay. 468 00:19:12,985 --> 00:19:15,029 Okay. 469 00:19:15,196 --> 00:19:19,575 So you have a very clear,     intense idea about what you 470 00:19:19,617 --> 00:19:24,664 need, which is to say you want    there not to be kind of a side 471 00:19:24,955 --> 00:19:27,792 stream where Josh          lives separately, 472 00:19:27,833 --> 00:19:32,838 maybe in a somewhat-vague state,  while trying to make you happy. 473 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,385 But the solution is not    simply getting what you need. 474 00:19:37,426 --> 00:19:38,844 Mm-hm. 475 00:19:38,886 --> 00:19:42,640 The solution has partially to    do with you understanding how 476 00:19:42,682 --> 00:19:45,476 the intensity of your ask... 477 00:19:45,518 --> 00:19:49,480 if affecting the feel       between the two of you. 478 00:19:49,522 --> 00:19:53,025 But when will it       become a conversation of 479 00:19:53,067 --> 00:19:54,652 "Okay, well... 480 00:19:54,694 --> 00:19:57,863 but you have to look at the     way that Molly engages in 481 00:19:57,905 --> 00:20:00,032 conversation or what        she needs," you know? 482 00:20:00,074 --> 00:20:03,035 I just feel like...  483 00:20:03,077 --> 00:20:08,124 Meaning that you're being asked  to adjust to Josh's rhythm... 484 00:20:08,165 --> 00:20:09,834 Yes! 485 00:20:09,875 --> 00:20:12,336 But you don't feel  like Josh is getting any kind of 486 00:20:12,378 --> 00:20:15,756 pressure to adjust to yours? 487 00:20:15,798 --> 00:20:17,717 Yes!  488 00:20:17,758 --> 00:20:22,388 I do not know if Josh feels this  feeling that he needs to make 489 00:20:22,430 --> 00:20:25,891 changes, and the     unfortunate thing is the way 490 00:20:25,933 --> 00:20:28,352 that I have chosen... 491 00:20:28,394 --> 00:20:32,898 to scream and yell at him that  he needs to do some fucking work 492 00:20:32,940 --> 00:20:36,068 himself has been by     having my own relationships 493 00:20:36,110 --> 00:20:37,570 with other people. 494 00:20:37,611 --> 00:20:39,905 It's like my way of screaming      at the top of my lungs! 495 00:20:41,782 --> 00:20:44,410 But the fact that you think      that I haven't done anything, 496 00:20:44,452 --> 00:20:46,912 that I haven't done any            work or grown at all, 497 00:20:46,954 --> 00:20:48,247 first of all-- 498 00:20:48,289 --> 00:20:50,958 But I have asked  repeatedly the same thing, 499 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,837 and it ha-- and every single  time we get to sit on a couch, 500 00:20:54,879 --> 00:20:58,799 and I need to understand who you  are and how you're sensitive and 501 00:20:58,841 --> 00:21:00,342 this and that-- 502 00:21:00,384 --> 00:21:01,969 That's not-- that's not true.      That's not a fair statement. 503 00:21:02,011 --> 00:21:03,721 Can I interrupt? 504 00:21:03,763 --> 00:21:05,931 Because what I feel like I'm  doing with the two of you right 505 00:21:05,973 --> 00:21:10,770 now is actually putting       pressure on Josh to... 506 00:21:11,020 --> 00:21:14,523 articulate yourself much more    clearly and to understand how 507 00:21:14,565 --> 00:21:17,401 you're... 508 00:21:17,443 --> 00:21:21,781 thriving by              relying on Molly's... 509 00:21:21,822 --> 00:21:22,782 intensity. 510 00:21:22,823 --> 00:21:24,950 I guarantee you he      does not see it that way, 511 00:21:24,992 --> 00:21:27,953 and until you just said that,  he did not realize that you were 512 00:21:27,995 --> 00:21:29,830 putting pressure on  him to think that. 513 00:21:29,872 --> 00:21:31,123 I guarantee you. 514 00:21:31,165 --> 00:21:33,959 He is thinking,         "Okay, she understands me, 515 00:21:34,001 --> 00:21:36,253 she really sees          my authentic self, 516 00:21:36,295 --> 00:21:38,964 and my authentic          self is who I am, 517 00:21:39,006 --> 00:21:42,468 and to change that        would be unauthentic! 518 00:21:42,510 --> 00:21:44,970 She's not asking me to     look at that and change it, 519 00:21:45,012 --> 00:21:46,847 she's really      understanding it, and now, 520 00:21:46,889 --> 00:21:49,266 I get to say, 'See?          This is who I am. 521 00:21:49,308 --> 00:21:51,602 It's hard for me to make choices  or blah-blah-blah-blah-blah,' 522 00:21:51,644 --> 00:21:55,022 and I'm not supposed to      not be my authentic self." 523 00:21:55,064 --> 00:21:58,067 Guarantee it. 524 00:22:00,069 --> 00:22:02,655 Would you like        to...respond to that? 525 00:22:02,696 --> 00:22:04,406 Is that what's going on? 526 00:22:04,448 --> 00:22:06,158 No. 527 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:10,162 No, it seemed very clear to me     at the beginning that you were 528 00:22:10,204 --> 00:22:14,250 pressuring-- asking Molly not to  talk and continuing to ask me to 529 00:22:14,291 --> 00:22:17,002 go to-- to... 530 00:22:17,044 --> 00:22:18,838 try and figure out          what was going on. 531 00:22:18,879 --> 00:22:20,840 Granted, this is something    that happened eight years ago, 532 00:22:20,881 --> 00:22:22,842 and since then... 533 00:22:22,883 --> 00:22:24,969 we've made a lot of       tough choices together, 534 00:22:25,010 --> 00:22:26,887 as a couple. 535 00:22:26,929 --> 00:22:28,389 Together, we've made choices. 536 00:22:28,430 --> 00:22:32,017 Josh, I was in a relationship  for five years with someone 537 00:22:32,059 --> 00:22:36,063 else, and a year and a half ago,  I was in a relationship with an 538 00:22:36,105 --> 00:22:39,483 ex-girlfriend. 539 00:22:40,067 --> 00:22:43,279 I am still screaming. 540 00:22:45,072 --> 00:22:48,242 Yeah, but fuck that, and    fuck that to say that, like... 541 00:22:48,284 --> 00:22:51,036 I mean, the way you're just  saying it is like if I had done 542 00:22:51,078 --> 00:22:52,872 something, you wouldn't       have done those things. 543 00:22:52,913 --> 00:22:55,082 That's not  what I'm saying! 544 00:22:55,124 --> 00:22:57,042 And that some--                  and that somehow, 545 00:22:57,084 --> 00:22:58,419 if I had just                  gotten it right-- 546 00:22:58,460 --> 00:22:59,712 No!  I'm not-- 547 00:22:59,753 --> 00:23:00,880 You wouldn't have                 done those things. 548 00:23:00,921 --> 00:23:01,922 That's exactly               what it sounds like! 549 00:23:01,964 --> 00:23:03,215 It's not about  getting it right! 550 00:23:03,257 --> 00:23:04,675 There's not a right-- 551 00:23:04,717 --> 00:23:06,677 "I'm screaming at you to do        what I'm asking you to do. 552 00:23:06,719 --> 00:23:08,053 Do it the way I          want you to do it, 553 00:23:08,095 --> 00:23:08,596 I've be screaming--" 554 00:23:08,637 --> 00:23:10,222 What am I          asking you to do? 555 00:23:10,264 --> 00:23:12,516 Really?  Is this really an interrogation? 556 00:23:12,558 --> 00:23:13,893 -Is that how we're gonna do it?  -No, Josh! 557 00:23:13,934 --> 00:23:15,060 I'm not-- 558 00:23:15,102 --> 00:23:16,729 Where you're leading me down       the path to get me to the-- 559 00:23:16,770 --> 00:23:18,898 -I'm not interrogating you--  -Answer that you're hoping for? 560 00:23:18,939 --> 00:23:20,232 No, I'm not         interrogating you-- 561 00:23:20,274 --> 00:23:22,234 It feels like        it, it feels like it. 562 00:23:22,276 --> 00:23:26,488 I'm trying to see if you can    repeat what I have been asking 563 00:23:26,530 --> 00:23:29,074 for years. 564 00:23:29,116 --> 00:23:31,744 I could have been more present,  I could have talked to you more 565 00:23:31,785 --> 00:23:33,704 about all the things               that I was feeling, 566 00:23:33,746 --> 00:23:35,748 about the questions              I was having, about-- 567 00:23:35,789 --> 00:23:38,751 So why isn't  that happening now? 568 00:23:38,792 --> 00:23:42,129 It...is...happening...now! 569 00:23:42,171 --> 00:23:45,466 It hasn't happened                 for the past week. 570 00:23:45,507 --> 00:23:48,469 But we've been talking      so much more deeply about 571 00:23:48,510 --> 00:23:50,262 everything for... 572 00:23:50,304 --> 00:23:51,764 It-- it is happening! 573 00:23:51,805 --> 00:23:54,934 What do you mean         it's not happening?! 574 00:23:57,770 --> 00:24:01,106 I am, like, so bothered right    now that you're sitting there 575 00:24:01,148 --> 00:24:03,734 like that with         this attitude that, 576 00:24:03,776 --> 00:24:07,279 like, I am being ridiculous  and that I'm interrogating you, 577 00:24:07,321 --> 00:24:10,950 when all I am saying to       you is I don't think... 578 00:24:10,991 --> 00:24:12,284 that you have been doing... 579 00:24:12,326 --> 00:24:16,163 the work that you say you have! 580 00:24:22,002 --> 00:24:23,921 Okay, we're gonna      have to stop 'cause we've run 581 00:24:23,963 --> 00:24:25,965 out of time. 582 00:24:26,006 --> 00:24:28,092 And hopefully, we        can pick up from here. 583 00:24:28,133 --> 00:24:30,970 Yeah. 584 00:24:31,011 --> 00:24:32,972 "after it all           blew over" by otta 585 00:24:38,018 --> 00:24:39,770 Thank you. 586 00:24:39,812 --> 00:24:41,605 Thank you. 587 00:24:41,647 --> 00:24:45,693 After it all blew over 588 00:24:50,239 --> 00:24:55,285 After it all blew over 589 00:25:02,209 --> 00:25:06,964 After it all blew over 590 00:25:13,679 --> 00:25:18,684 After it all blew over 591 00:25:25,566 --> 00:25:30,612 After it all blew over 592 00:25:37,077 --> 00:25:42,082 After it all blew over 593 00:25:49,256 --> 00:25:54,053 After it all blew over 594 00:26:01,268 --> 00:26:06,023 After it all blew over 49339

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