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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:03,720 Evil can't be seen. 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 3 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:05,790 By the time it is recognized, 4 00:00:05,790 --> 00:00:07,620 it's already too late. 5 00:00:07,620 --> 00:00:11,910 The motives for evil are as diverse as its manifestations 6 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 7 00:00:11,910 --> 00:00:14,100 and they can often be monstrous. 8 00:00:14,100 --> 00:00:17,430 So, are evil people sick or monsters? 9 00:00:17,430 --> 00:00:18,960 It's not only sick people 10 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:20,400 who commit evil deeds. 11 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:22,750 I would even say that they are in the minority. 12 00:00:24,210 --> 00:00:25,610 So, what is evil? 13 00:00:26,790 --> 00:00:28,503 What role does aggression play? 14 00:00:29,970 --> 00:00:32,580 Is it the accelerant for a destructive force 15 00:00:32,580 --> 00:00:35,433 that has always lain dormant in each and every one of us? 16 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,350 I don't think that evil behavior as such 17 00:00:40,350 --> 00:00:42,480 actually exists. 18 00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:44,973 In this respect, we need to rethink a little. 19 00:00:46,140 --> 00:00:47,790 But what controls our behavior? 20 00:00:47,790 --> 00:00:49,380 How free is our will? 21 00:00:49,380 --> 00:00:52,590 What role do our genes and our environment play? 22 00:00:52,590 --> 00:00:54,510 What course must our biography take 23 00:00:54,510 --> 00:00:55,923 for evil to break through? 24 00:00:56,762 --> 00:00:59,762 (suspenseful music) 25 00:01:13,740 --> 00:01:17,460 Does the life of a perpetrator provide explanations 26 00:01:17,460 --> 00:01:21,261 as to why a young man killed 77 people? 27 00:01:21,261 --> 00:01:23,844 (lively music) 28 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:30,540 The deed doesn't justify talk 29 00:01:30,540 --> 00:01:32,130 of a perpetrator development, 30 00:01:32,130 --> 00:01:34,560 but we can learn a great deal from Mr. Breivik, 31 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,160 we just have to understand what. 32 00:01:38,460 --> 00:01:42,030 Norway, July 22nd, 2011. 33 00:01:42,030 --> 00:01:44,700 In the government quarter in the capital Oslo 34 00:01:44,700 --> 00:01:47,073 a bomb exploded killing eight people. 35 00:01:47,940 --> 00:01:50,910 It was the horrific start to a day of mass murder, 36 00:01:50,910 --> 00:01:54,660 which cost a further 96 lives on the island of Utoya. 37 00:01:54,660 --> 00:01:56,730 The tragedy shook the little country 38 00:01:56,730 --> 00:01:58,503 to its very foundations. 39 00:02:00,210 --> 00:02:04,170 The perpetrator was 32-year-old Anders Behring Breivik. 40 00:02:04,170 --> 00:02:06,060 He saw himself as a crusader, 41 00:02:06,060 --> 00:02:08,190 as the messenger of an ideology 42 00:02:08,190 --> 00:02:10,860 which he hoped to spread worldwide. 43 00:02:10,860 --> 00:02:13,658 Breivik wanted to attract maximum attention. 44 00:02:13,658 --> 00:02:16,466 (gentle music) 45 00:02:16,466 --> 00:02:18,060 (Nahlah speaking foreign language) 46 00:02:18,060 --> 00:02:19,950 This need included media coverage 47 00:02:19,950 --> 00:02:22,620 because it was vital to him to become, in a certain way, 48 00:02:22,620 --> 00:02:24,660 a shining light of history. 49 00:02:24,660 --> 00:02:25,493 And to be honest, 50 00:02:25,493 --> 00:02:27,420 we must say that Mr. Breivik has gone down 51 00:02:27,420 --> 00:02:29,670 in the annals of criminal history, 52 00:02:29,670 --> 00:02:32,430 that is why he is not anonymized in reports. 53 00:02:32,430 --> 00:02:34,110 We all know his name, 54 00:02:34,110 --> 00:02:35,130 and the media, of course, 55 00:02:35,130 --> 00:02:36,980 were an important instrument for him. 56 00:02:39,750 --> 00:02:40,740 As an expert, 57 00:02:40,740 --> 00:02:44,460 Nahlah Saimeh answers the questions of how far indeed, 58 00:02:44,460 --> 00:02:45,330 if at all, 59 00:02:45,330 --> 00:02:48,630 a perpetrator can be made responsible for his actions. 60 00:02:48,630 --> 00:02:52,770 The focus is always on the legal evaluation of the facts, 61 00:02:52,770 --> 00:02:56,070 but it's also about assessing the special features of a case 62 00:02:56,070 --> 00:02:59,099 to obtain general knowledge about evil. 63 00:02:59,099 --> 00:03:01,682 (gentle music) 64 00:03:02,591 --> 00:03:05,070 (Nahlah speaking foreign language) 65 00:03:05,070 --> 00:03:06,270 In exemplary fashion, 66 00:03:06,270 --> 00:03:08,130 Breivik reveals the basic conditions 67 00:03:08,130 --> 00:03:10,080 for a pathologically excessive 68 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,150 and highly destructive narcissism 69 00:03:12,150 --> 00:03:14,949 with the aim, so to speak, of come completing history. 70 00:03:14,949 --> 00:03:17,430 (Nahlah speaking foreign language) 71 00:03:17,430 --> 00:03:18,390 From the life, 72 00:03:18,390 --> 00:03:21,025 the personal biography of an outsider. 73 00:03:21,025 --> 00:03:25,410 (Nahlah speaking foreign language) 74 00:03:25,410 --> 00:03:27,270 If someone recounts the story 75 00:03:27,270 --> 00:03:29,730 of a perpetrator's life, 76 00:03:29,730 --> 00:03:31,773 does that not make them his tool? 77 00:03:37,860 --> 00:03:41,580 A man in Norway killed 77 people. 78 00:03:41,580 --> 00:03:44,163 It seems hard to me not to talk about that. 79 00:03:46,620 --> 00:03:48,900 Mass murder as the inevitable result 80 00:03:48,900 --> 00:03:50,910 of biographical failure? 81 00:03:50,910 --> 00:03:54,300 An explanation of such simplicity would not deal justly 82 00:03:54,300 --> 00:03:56,250 with the crime or the victims. 83 00:03:56,250 --> 00:03:59,760 Yet the different stages in the development of a human life 84 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:01,440 contain a hoard of events 85 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,843 which scientists are striving to recover. 86 00:04:05,591 --> 00:04:08,370 (gentle music) 87 00:04:08,370 --> 00:04:11,970 69-year-old Daniel Zagury is a criminologist, 88 00:04:11,970 --> 00:04:14,790 forensic psychiatrist, and author. 89 00:04:14,790 --> 00:04:17,400 He began his career as a court expert. 90 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:21,420 In France he progressed to become an expert on terrorism. 91 00:04:21,420 --> 00:04:23,550 He often encounters evil in the garb 92 00:04:23,550 --> 00:04:25,773 of seemingly normal behavior. 93 00:04:29,370 --> 00:04:31,170 We all intuitively think 94 00:04:31,170 --> 00:04:33,720 that the most appalling crimes are committed 95 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:35,220 by the mentally ill, 96 00:04:35,220 --> 00:04:37,200 by massive psychos, 97 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:38,700 by monsters, 98 00:04:38,700 --> 00:04:42,120 but reality shows that those involved in terrorism, 99 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:46,350 genocide, and many other crimes are quite ordinary people 100 00:04:46,350 --> 00:04:50,640 who in the broadest sense of the word are perfectly normal 101 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,476 and certainly don't have any mental defects. 102 00:04:54,476 --> 00:04:58,726 (Daniel speaking foreign language) 103 00:05:00,750 --> 00:05:04,380 Anders Breivik was born in 1979, 104 00:05:04,380 --> 00:05:07,080 his parents separated not long afterwards, 105 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,690 and he was brought up by his mother. 106 00:05:09,690 --> 00:05:13,154 Theirs was a difficult relationship right from the start. 107 00:05:13,154 --> 00:05:15,571 (soft music) 108 00:05:17,340 --> 00:05:18,173 What is interesting 109 00:05:18,173 --> 00:05:19,680 about Breivik's childhood 110 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,383 is that it involves a transgenerational problem. 111 00:05:23,370 --> 00:05:25,290 Because even Anders Breivik's mother 112 00:05:25,290 --> 00:05:26,793 was rejected as a child. 113 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:29,820 Her mother suffered from polio, 114 00:05:29,820 --> 00:05:32,010 and vented all her rage, disappointment, 115 00:05:32,010 --> 00:05:33,902 and despair on her daughter. 116 00:05:33,902 --> 00:05:35,940 (Nahlah speaking foreign language) 117 00:05:35,940 --> 00:05:39,210 So Breivik's mother herself had never experienced acceptance 118 00:05:39,210 --> 00:05:41,733 or love and kindness in a family scenario. 119 00:05:43,620 --> 00:05:45,483 Yet this woman later became pregnant. 120 00:05:47,850 --> 00:05:50,100 Breivik's mother complained about the child 121 00:05:50,100 --> 00:05:51,990 while she was still carrying it 122 00:05:51,990 --> 00:05:53,793 and even considered an abortion. 123 00:05:57,180 --> 00:05:59,370 Anders Breivik actually came into the world 124 00:05:59,370 --> 00:06:01,380 as an unwanted child. 125 00:06:01,380 --> 00:06:02,970 His mother rejected him, 126 00:06:02,970 --> 00:06:04,620 but as an infant, of course, 127 00:06:04,620 --> 00:06:06,783 that is not something you can comprehend. 128 00:06:08,250 --> 00:06:10,200 You are directly dependent for affection 129 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:12,603 on the primary attachment figure in your life. 130 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:15,870 The boy grew up with his mother. 131 00:06:15,870 --> 00:06:19,260 Outwardly he lived in a protected environment, 132 00:06:19,260 --> 00:06:21,510 but behind the middle class facade, 133 00:06:21,510 --> 00:06:23,370 chaos prevailed. 134 00:06:23,370 --> 00:06:24,540 The mother couldn't cope 135 00:06:24,540 --> 00:06:27,600 and wanted to give Anders up for adoption. 136 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:29,790 He then spent the weekends with foster parents 137 00:06:29,790 --> 00:06:32,070 until his mother put a stop to it. 138 00:06:32,070 --> 00:06:35,883 The rejection motif was to be repeated throughout his life. 139 00:06:40,650 --> 00:06:42,000 We have to be careful 140 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,120 not to reconstruct things in retrospect. 141 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,310 After a crime has been committed, 142 00:06:47,310 --> 00:06:50,820 it is always easy to say that the deed can be traced back 143 00:06:50,820 --> 00:06:54,720 to this or that event in the perpetrator's life. 144 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,840 I can, for instance, talk about my experiences 145 00:06:57,840 --> 00:06:59,790 with serial killers. 146 00:06:59,790 --> 00:07:01,320 It's extremely rare, 147 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,950 indeed almost impossible for a future serial killer, 148 00:07:04,950 --> 00:07:08,040 to have grown up in a home with a fire in the grate 149 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,790 and lots of hugs and kisses from his mother and father. 150 00:07:12,121 --> 00:07:14,580 (soft music) 151 00:07:14,580 --> 00:07:17,010 So, what role does childhood play? 152 00:07:17,010 --> 00:07:19,140 What is determined biologically? 153 00:07:19,140 --> 00:07:21,540 What is genetically inherited? 154 00:07:21,540 --> 00:07:22,440 For a long time, 155 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:26,100 the suspicion prevailed that evil lies in our genes, 156 00:07:26,100 --> 00:07:28,590 a case of unchangeable information, 157 00:07:28,590 --> 00:07:31,773 a kind of genetic predisposition in other words. 158 00:07:35,010 --> 00:07:37,230 We know today that it's not only of interest 159 00:07:37,230 --> 00:07:39,690 which gene or genetic variation of a person 160 00:07:39,690 --> 00:07:40,653 has in their body, 161 00:07:42,630 --> 00:07:45,240 what really matters is whether this gene is active 162 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:46,275 or inactive. 163 00:07:46,275 --> 00:07:48,450 (Eva speaking foreign language) 164 00:07:48,450 --> 00:07:51,810 But what does active or inactive actually mean? 165 00:07:51,810 --> 00:07:54,840 It's here that a young signs called epigenetics 166 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:56,190 comes into play. 167 00:07:56,190 --> 00:07:58,260 It involves molecular mechanisms 168 00:07:58,260 --> 00:08:01,440 which read our genes with varying intensity. 169 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,410 So, does this mean that evil has nothing to do at all 170 00:08:04,410 --> 00:08:06,528 with the genes themselves? 171 00:08:06,528 --> 00:08:08,910 (Eva speaking foreign language) 172 00:08:08,910 --> 00:08:09,743 It could well be 173 00:08:09,743 --> 00:08:13,170 that we carry a certain set of risk genes within us, 174 00:08:13,170 --> 00:08:14,003 but that doesn't mean 175 00:08:14,003 --> 00:08:16,440 that these genes really will come into play 176 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,000 because they may not all be active 177 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:19,827 at a certain point in time. 178 00:08:19,827 --> 00:08:23,790 (Eva speaking foreign language) 179 00:08:23,790 --> 00:08:25,440 In the field of epigenetics, 180 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:26,880 we are focusing on the question 181 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,010 of whether there are any environmental factors 182 00:08:29,010 --> 00:08:30,723 that could influence these genes. 183 00:08:34,170 --> 00:08:37,120 Eva Unternahrer works together with Anke Kobach. 184 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,620 They know that traumatic experiences 185 00:08:40,620 --> 00:08:42,603 influence genetic activity, 186 00:08:43,620 --> 00:08:45,180 but that's not the only finding 187 00:08:45,180 --> 00:08:46,983 epigenetics has come up with. 188 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:50,910 The big question is, 189 00:08:50,910 --> 00:08:53,430 how do certain experiences burn themselves 190 00:08:53,430 --> 00:08:55,200 into our epigenetic memory? 191 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,620 Indeed, is there any such thing as an epigenetic memory? 192 00:08:58,620 --> 00:08:59,453 And if so, 193 00:08:59,453 --> 00:09:02,850 can we change it by means of therapeutic measures? 194 00:09:02,850 --> 00:09:04,320 It was long assumed 195 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,290 that a child is only influenced by its environment 196 00:09:07,290 --> 00:09:08,880 after it's born. 197 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:10,950 Today we know that influences 198 00:09:10,950 --> 00:09:13,650 which co-determine how genes are activated 199 00:09:13,650 --> 00:09:16,473 already have an effect on an unborn child. 200 00:09:18,450 --> 00:09:19,560 Everything we have learned 201 00:09:19,560 --> 00:09:20,970 about the pregnancy phase 202 00:09:20,970 --> 00:09:23,340 indicates that it is extremely important 203 00:09:23,340 --> 00:09:27,060 with regard to how our stress axis is constructed, 204 00:09:27,060 --> 00:09:30,690 and if the mother experiences more stress during pregnancy, 205 00:09:30,690 --> 00:09:31,860 to a certain degree, 206 00:09:31,860 --> 00:09:34,233 this is also transmitted to the child. 207 00:09:36,441 --> 00:09:38,580 A person's genotype is determined 208 00:09:38,580 --> 00:09:40,980 when fertilization takes place. 209 00:09:40,980 --> 00:09:42,960 However, during pregnancy, 210 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,650 it is completely erased and then reactivated. 211 00:09:46,650 --> 00:09:49,320 This complex process shapes our character 212 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,060 and our later behavior. 213 00:09:51,060 --> 00:09:54,780 How our genetic stamp becomes active seems to be dependent 214 00:09:54,780 --> 00:09:57,139 on our living conditions. 215 00:09:57,139 --> 00:09:59,070 (Eva speaking foreign language) 216 00:09:59,070 --> 00:10:01,260 There might, for example, be certain toxins 217 00:10:01,260 --> 00:10:05,100 that can specifically switch particular genes on and off, 218 00:10:05,100 --> 00:10:06,240 and it could also be the case 219 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,100 that emotional neglect in childhood 220 00:10:08,100 --> 00:10:10,053 changes a whole raft of genes. 221 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:13,160 What's also certain 222 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,323 is that no one comes into this world a perpetrator. 223 00:10:18,540 --> 00:10:21,750 (Anke speaking foreign language) 224 00:10:21,750 --> 00:10:23,790 What's also really important to know 225 00:10:23,790 --> 00:10:27,120 is that no single event which happens during pregnancy 226 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,340 can make a person an evil perpetrator 227 00:10:29,340 --> 00:10:32,074 or a victim in the course of their life. 228 00:10:32,074 --> 00:10:35,287 (Anke speaking foreign language) 229 00:10:35,287 --> 00:10:36,630 Anders Breivik was four 230 00:10:36,630 --> 00:10:39,390 when his mother moved into a new apartment with him 231 00:10:39,390 --> 00:10:40,920 and his half sister. 232 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,040 It was a friendly environment with lots of children, 233 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,470 but Anders mother still couldn't cope. 234 00:10:46,470 --> 00:10:49,380 She turned, once again, to the Youth Welfare Office 235 00:10:49,380 --> 00:10:51,690 to find a foster family for Anders. 236 00:10:51,690 --> 00:10:54,900 His preschool teachers were worried about the boy, 237 00:10:54,900 --> 00:10:57,810 disgracefully aggressive was one comment. 238 00:10:57,810 --> 00:10:59,760 They also said that he had no friends, 239 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:01,710 yet couldn't amuse himself. 240 00:11:01,710 --> 00:11:04,680 Other children claimed that Anders mistreated animals 241 00:11:04,680 --> 00:11:06,480 and other children as well. 242 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,390 The Youth Welfare Office thought that the family's problems 243 00:11:09,390 --> 00:11:12,120 should be placed in the hands of a psychiatrist. 244 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:13,530 Six years his elder, 245 00:11:13,530 --> 00:11:16,380 the boy's half sister left the family at an early age 246 00:11:16,380 --> 00:11:17,733 and now lives abroad. 247 00:11:19,350 --> 00:11:20,460 At first, I think, 248 00:11:20,460 --> 00:11:22,500 Breivik's sister looked after him, 249 00:11:22,500 --> 00:11:24,090 but at some point of course, 250 00:11:24,090 --> 00:11:26,880 she had her own life to live and left the family. 251 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:28,500 That's only natural 252 00:11:28,500 --> 00:11:29,333 and there is no way 253 00:11:29,333 --> 00:11:31,650 that full responsibility for running the family 254 00:11:31,650 --> 00:11:34,320 can be placed on the sister's shoulders. 255 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:35,460 In those initial years, 256 00:11:35,460 --> 00:11:38,430 I think she played a relatively substantial role, 257 00:11:38,430 --> 00:11:40,020 especially when the mother was unable 258 00:11:40,020 --> 00:11:41,280 to take care of her family 259 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,623 because of her own psychological problems. 260 00:11:45,690 --> 00:11:47,160 In 1983, 261 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,380 the family was examined for several weeks 262 00:11:49,380 --> 00:11:51,750 in the psychiatric center in Oslo. 263 00:11:51,750 --> 00:11:53,790 Doctors found that the mother was suffering 264 00:11:53,790 --> 00:11:56,220 from a borderline personality disorder 265 00:11:56,220 --> 00:11:58,950 in combination with angst and depression. 266 00:11:58,950 --> 00:12:02,580 They found that her attitude towards her son was erratic, 267 00:12:02,580 --> 00:12:04,560 that she lived in her own world, 268 00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:06,810 and that she was unable to think clearly 269 00:12:06,810 --> 00:12:08,373 in stress situations. 270 00:12:10,627 --> 00:12:13,953 "I wish you were dead," she once screamed at her son. 271 00:12:16,680 --> 00:12:19,020 Doctors recommended that Anders be placed 272 00:12:19,020 --> 00:12:20,820 in the care of a foster family, 273 00:12:20,820 --> 00:12:22,800 but his mother put a massive resistance 274 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:24,780 to the withdrawal of custody. 275 00:12:24,780 --> 00:12:26,400 She hired a lawyer. 276 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:28,110 Against all expert advice, 277 00:12:28,110 --> 00:12:30,423 the Youth Welfare Office dropped the case. 278 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:34,980 I think the boy should have been taken 279 00:12:34,980 --> 00:12:37,590 out of the family and most resolutely 280 00:12:37,590 --> 00:12:39,390 and the authorities should have ensured 281 00:12:39,390 --> 00:12:42,290 that the new setting would have enabled a bond to develop. 282 00:12:43,260 --> 00:12:44,430 According to experts, 283 00:12:44,430 --> 00:12:46,980 childhood is one of the most important building blocks 284 00:12:46,980 --> 00:12:48,810 in a person's biography, 285 00:12:48,810 --> 00:12:52,380 it is here that the basis for our further life is created. 286 00:12:52,380 --> 00:12:55,865 So, are these the years that can turn someone into a killer? 287 00:12:55,865 --> 00:12:58,865 (suspenseful music) 288 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,430 If I systematically signal to a child 289 00:13:02,430 --> 00:13:03,750 that it is bad, 290 00:13:03,750 --> 00:13:06,630 then that will become its perception of itself. 291 00:13:06,630 --> 00:13:08,490 But you cannot say this will make it develop 292 00:13:08,490 --> 00:13:10,080 into a perpetrator. 293 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:11,220 What it does show, however, 294 00:13:11,220 --> 00:13:14,253 is disaster does not arise of its own accord. 295 00:13:16,860 --> 00:13:18,570 Virtually all serial killers 296 00:13:18,570 --> 00:13:22,020 have experienced disastrous developments in childhood, 297 00:13:22,020 --> 00:13:25,323 but what is the distinction here between cause and effect? 298 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:27,587 From the mid-1980s on, 299 00:13:27,587 --> 00:13:31,563 Leszek Pekalski probably murdered more than 80 people. 300 00:13:33,439 --> 00:13:35,970 (Nahlah speaking foreign language) 301 00:13:35,970 --> 00:13:37,710 The aim through the act of killing 302 00:13:37,710 --> 00:13:40,320 is to gain a feeling of self-affirmation 303 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,870 and to recreate the experience of being worthless 304 00:13:42,870 --> 00:13:44,521 in someone else. 305 00:13:44,521 --> 00:13:46,950 (Nahlah speaking foreign language) 306 00:13:46,950 --> 00:13:48,390 When I kill them, 307 00:13:48,390 --> 00:13:50,422 my victims have no value, 308 00:13:50,422 --> 00:13:53,010 (Nahlah speaking foreign language) 309 00:13:53,010 --> 00:13:55,290 so it's no different from me squashing a fly 310 00:13:55,290 --> 00:13:56,253 against the wall. 311 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,250 Pekalski's mother became pregnant with her son 312 00:14:02,250 --> 00:14:03,390 after being raped. 313 00:14:03,390 --> 00:14:05,430 He grew up in the Polish countryside. 314 00:14:05,430 --> 00:14:07,800 Despised herself as the bride of Satan, 315 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:09,990 Leszek's mother rejected her son. 316 00:14:09,990 --> 00:14:11,460 In the village where they lived, 317 00:14:11,460 --> 00:14:14,490 he was only ever referred to as the bastard. 318 00:14:14,490 --> 00:14:16,290 His mother put the boy in a home 319 00:14:16,290 --> 00:14:17,883 and disappeared from his life. 320 00:14:18,990 --> 00:14:20,670 We have seen that these people 321 00:14:20,670 --> 00:14:23,340 either continue to idealize their mother 322 00:14:23,340 --> 00:14:26,220 or they neutralize the image they have of her. 323 00:14:26,220 --> 00:14:30,540 Despite all the incidences of abuse, rejection, torment, 324 00:14:30,540 --> 00:14:33,150 and all the other brutal things you can think of, 325 00:14:33,150 --> 00:14:35,400 they continue to idealize her. 326 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,010 But it seems as if all the murders 327 00:14:38,010 --> 00:14:40,680 are a form of transferred matricide, 328 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,500 even though at the same time the killer adheres 329 00:14:43,500 --> 00:14:46,350 to this idealization and neutralization 330 00:14:46,350 --> 00:14:47,823 of the maternal image. 331 00:14:50,250 --> 00:14:51,480 After four years in a home, 332 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,550 Leszek Pekalski returned to his village 333 00:14:53,550 --> 00:14:55,920 to live with his grandmother, who tormented him, 334 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:57,420 and his sister, 335 00:14:57,420 --> 00:15:00,120 pressing their hands on the hot plate in the kitchen 336 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,043 for the slightest misdemeanor. 337 00:15:02,917 --> 00:15:05,640 (Nahlah speaking foreign language) 338 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:07,530 The grandmother's approach to upbringing 339 00:15:07,530 --> 00:15:09,513 can only be described as sadistic. 340 00:15:11,490 --> 00:15:13,980 I have known several cases in which this problem 341 00:15:13,980 --> 00:15:15,963 of an unwanted birth played a role. 342 00:15:17,550 --> 00:15:19,860 It is relatively certain that anyone growing up 343 00:15:19,860 --> 00:15:21,420 in such circumstances 344 00:15:21,420 --> 00:15:24,319 will not turn out to be a great feminist. 345 00:15:24,319 --> 00:15:28,830 (Nahlah speaking foreign language) 346 00:15:28,830 --> 00:15:30,150 They are more likely to end up 347 00:15:30,150 --> 00:15:31,290 like Jack Unterweger 348 00:15:31,290 --> 00:15:33,153 who murdered at least 10 women. 349 00:15:35,970 --> 00:15:38,280 Young Jack grew up in his grandfather's house 350 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:42,000 in the countryside in the Austrian province of Carinthia. 351 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,480 The man was a brutal drunkard and cattle thief. 352 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:49,110 Jack never met his father who was an American soldier. 353 00:15:49,110 --> 00:15:52,170 His mother was a prostitute who disappeared from his life 354 00:15:52,170 --> 00:15:53,570 when she was sent to prison. 355 00:15:56,730 --> 00:15:58,560 Living with his grandfather, 356 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:00,360 Jack went to seed physically, 357 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:01,713 but above all mentally. 358 00:16:04,764 --> 00:16:09,014 (Nahlah speaking foreign language) 359 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:11,400 That is the foundation 360 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,350 for deep emotional brutalization 361 00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:17,130 coupled with a very early stamp of a negative view of women, 362 00:16:17,130 --> 00:16:19,520 because basically women are whores. 363 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:23,770 (Nahlah speaking foreign language) 364 00:16:27,316 --> 00:16:29,040 And this imputation only works 365 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,641 if you have an extremely patriarchal view of society. 366 00:16:32,641 --> 00:16:36,630 (Nahlah speaking foreign language) 367 00:16:36,630 --> 00:16:38,910 Leszek Pekalski and Jack Unterweger, 368 00:16:38,910 --> 00:16:41,370 two brutal killers with childhood biographies 369 00:16:41,370 --> 00:16:44,820 characterized by abuse and a lack of emotional support. 370 00:16:44,820 --> 00:16:46,710 Such childhood experiences 371 00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:48,840 don't automatically make someone a killer, 372 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:50,970 however they do constitute the basis 373 00:16:50,970 --> 00:16:52,978 of a destructive development. 374 00:16:52,978 --> 00:16:57,420 (Daniel speaking foreign language) 375 00:16:57,420 --> 00:16:59,963 When I was young, I worked in a prison. 376 00:17:00,870 --> 00:17:03,540 Statistically it is not the sort of place 377 00:17:03,540 --> 00:17:06,360 where you'll find people who grow up in a carefree 378 00:17:06,360 --> 00:17:08,310 and loving environment. 379 00:17:08,310 --> 00:17:11,670 So from a statistical point of view at least, 380 00:17:11,670 --> 00:17:15,540 education and emotional conditions play an important role 381 00:17:15,540 --> 00:17:17,361 in early childhood. 382 00:17:17,361 --> 00:17:20,797 (Daniel speaking foreign language) 383 00:17:20,797 --> 00:17:23,430 (Nahlah speaking foreign language) 384 00:17:23,430 --> 00:17:25,110 When we are loved and cared for 385 00:17:25,110 --> 00:17:27,480 when we are caressed and fed, 386 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,390 when we received positive emotional signals 387 00:17:30,390 --> 00:17:33,330 in this emotional resonance phenomenon, 388 00:17:33,330 --> 00:17:37,170 biologically we are talking about the release of oxytocin. 389 00:17:37,170 --> 00:17:39,330 We learn that we are someone who is loved 390 00:17:39,330 --> 00:17:42,262 and is a good person and that we are wanted. 391 00:17:42,262 --> 00:17:46,200 (Nahlah speaking foreign language) 392 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,170 But why do some people develop into perpetrators 393 00:17:49,170 --> 00:17:50,700 while others who have grown up 394 00:17:50,700 --> 00:17:52,950 in similar circumstances don't? 395 00:17:52,950 --> 00:17:55,080 What impact do certain factors have 396 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,903 on the criminal development of a person's biography? 397 00:17:58,890 --> 00:18:00,510 There are certainly some people, 398 00:18:00,510 --> 00:18:03,180 who even under the most extreme stress, 399 00:18:03,180 --> 00:18:06,300 do not change their personality to such a degree 400 00:18:06,300 --> 00:18:08,643 that they become aggressive and criminal. 401 00:18:09,660 --> 00:18:11,040 At the Max Planck Institute 402 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,920 of Experimental Medicine in Gottingen, Germany, 403 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,550 Professor Ehrenreich and her team are carrying out research 404 00:18:17,550 --> 00:18:19,680 into the impact of environmental factors 405 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,080 in childhood and adolescents. 406 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,260 For the first time, it has now been proven statistically 407 00:18:25,260 --> 00:18:28,380 that an accumulation of risk factors can contribute 408 00:18:28,380 --> 00:18:32,850 to violence and criminality being displayed as an adult. 409 00:18:32,850 --> 00:18:35,250 The team focused its research on urbanicity, 410 00:18:35,250 --> 00:18:37,110 physical and sexual abuse, 411 00:18:37,110 --> 00:18:39,243 migration, and drug consumption. 412 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:42,450 In my opinion, 413 00:18:42,450 --> 00:18:45,690 one extremely important discovery is that basically 414 00:18:45,690 --> 00:18:48,273 even risk factors are interchangeable. 415 00:18:50,700 --> 00:18:51,570 In other words, 416 00:18:51,570 --> 00:18:53,490 we can concoct any cocktail 417 00:18:53,490 --> 00:18:55,890 irrespective of whether it is a combination 418 00:18:55,890 --> 00:18:58,560 of birth trauma, migration, cannabis, 419 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,580 psychotrauma, sexual abuse, and alcohol. 420 00:19:01,580 --> 00:19:04,500 (Ehrenreich speaking foreign language) 421 00:19:04,500 --> 00:19:06,660 It makes no difference which ingredients 422 00:19:06,660 --> 00:19:07,893 are in our cocktail. 423 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,090 The result is an extremely enhanced risk 424 00:19:12,090 --> 00:19:14,640 of someone reacting with aggression and criminality 425 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:15,798 as an adult. 426 00:19:15,798 --> 00:19:18,030 (Ehrenreich speaking foreign language) 427 00:19:18,030 --> 00:19:20,940 If three of those five factors are applicable, 428 00:19:20,940 --> 00:19:24,300 the probability increases to up to 50%. 429 00:19:24,300 --> 00:19:25,590 It plays a major role 430 00:19:25,590 --> 00:19:29,100 if this impact occurs before the age of 17, 431 00:19:29,100 --> 00:19:32,010 because up to then, the brain is highly vulnerable 432 00:19:32,010 --> 00:19:32,973 in its development. 433 00:19:34,710 --> 00:19:36,600 I think it is extremely important 434 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,670 to transfer this information 435 00:19:38,670 --> 00:19:41,250 and say that if a person reveals one, two, 436 00:19:41,250 --> 00:19:43,350 or three of these risk factors, 437 00:19:43,350 --> 00:19:45,390 irrespective of what they are, 438 00:19:45,390 --> 00:19:47,130 then we must be on our guard 439 00:19:47,130 --> 00:19:50,253 and think about how we can intercept the consequences. 440 00:19:51,510 --> 00:19:53,010 In Anders Breivik's case, 441 00:19:53,010 --> 00:19:55,770 nobody intercepted any consequences. 442 00:19:55,770 --> 00:19:57,600 In Oslo at the age of 13, 443 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,690 he embarked on a career as a sprayer and tagger. 444 00:20:00,690 --> 00:20:02,610 He wanted to belong. 445 00:20:02,610 --> 00:20:04,290 In those early teenage years, 446 00:20:04,290 --> 00:20:07,200 it was already clear what would characterize his life 447 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:08,670 up to his crime. 448 00:20:08,670 --> 00:20:10,530 He wanted to play with the big boys, 449 00:20:10,530 --> 00:20:12,090 not only to be in the group, 450 00:20:12,090 --> 00:20:13,893 but also one of its leaders. 451 00:20:16,050 --> 00:20:18,300 Actually, he was always an outsider. 452 00:20:18,300 --> 00:20:20,880 He always made every attempt to join a group, 453 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:22,020 but most people noticed 454 00:20:22,020 --> 00:20:23,850 that there was something strange about him 455 00:20:23,850 --> 00:20:26,040 and didn't want anything to do with him. 456 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,350 To some extent, they didn't take him seriously 457 00:20:28,350 --> 00:20:31,413 or they even found him spooky and kept their distance. 458 00:20:32,460 --> 00:20:34,740 At this time, Anders Breivik had friends 459 00:20:34,740 --> 00:20:36,090 who tagged with him, 460 00:20:36,090 --> 00:20:38,790 but basically the tagging scene made fun of him, 461 00:20:38,790 --> 00:20:40,290 laughing at his ambitions, 462 00:20:40,290 --> 00:20:42,660 the way he walked and the way he dressed. 463 00:20:42,660 --> 00:20:44,610 He just didn't fit in. 464 00:20:44,610 --> 00:20:47,010 In the end, the tagger gang turned against him 465 00:20:47,010 --> 00:20:49,237 and so did other people he knew. 466 00:20:49,237 --> 00:20:50,790 "He was always the odd man out," 467 00:20:50,790 --> 00:20:53,100 his friend said after the killing spree. 468 00:20:53,100 --> 00:20:55,450 At some point, they'd simply had enough of him. 469 00:20:57,270 --> 00:21:00,660 But Anders Breivik too lacked a stable family life. 470 00:21:00,660 --> 00:21:02,730 After he had been arrested several times 471 00:21:02,730 --> 00:21:05,940 for obtaining spray cans illegally and for tagging, 472 00:21:05,940 --> 00:21:09,528 his father permanently broke off all contact with him. 473 00:21:09,528 --> 00:21:12,111 (upbeat music) 474 00:21:13,740 --> 00:21:14,970 In addition to the effect 475 00:21:14,970 --> 00:21:17,250 of environmental factors on humans, 476 00:21:17,250 --> 00:21:19,470 scientists at the Max Planck Institute 477 00:21:19,470 --> 00:21:22,200 of Experimental Medicine in Gottingen, Germany, 478 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:23,520 are studying the degree 479 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,340 to which aggressive behavior lies in our genes. 480 00:21:26,340 --> 00:21:27,900 It's a broad field. 481 00:21:27,900 --> 00:21:30,483 (gentle music) 482 00:21:32,820 --> 00:21:34,230 Over the last few years, 483 00:21:34,230 --> 00:21:37,170 we have focused specifically on just a few genes 484 00:21:37,170 --> 00:21:38,790 and drawn up mouse models 485 00:21:38,790 --> 00:21:42,325 which show a genetic change in one or two of these genes. 486 00:21:42,325 --> 00:21:46,800 (Ehrenreich speaking foreign language) 487 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:48,660 In manipulating suitable candidates 488 00:21:48,660 --> 00:21:49,830 in an animal mode, 489 00:21:49,830 --> 00:21:52,260 attention is paid to whether aggressive behavior 490 00:21:52,260 --> 00:21:53,880 is intensified. 491 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,220 In this way, researchers want to find out 492 00:21:56,220 --> 00:21:59,370 if a certain gene really does control aggression. 493 00:21:59,370 --> 00:22:02,130 The researchers apply a special mouse experiment 494 00:22:02,130 --> 00:22:04,773 known as the resident-intruder paradigm. 495 00:22:06,281 --> 00:22:08,223 (Ehrenreich speaking foreign language) 496 00:22:08,223 --> 00:22:09,900 This means that we have a mouse 497 00:22:09,900 --> 00:22:11,762 living alone in a cage. 498 00:22:11,762 --> 00:22:15,210 (Ehrenreich speaking foreign language) 499 00:22:15,210 --> 00:22:18,933 Suddenly it finds another mouse has been placed in its cage. 500 00:22:20,152 --> 00:22:23,400 (Ehrenreich speaking foreign language) 501 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,310 We then observe how the resident becomes violent 502 00:22:26,310 --> 00:22:30,087 when a young cheeky male mouse suddenly moves in. 503 00:22:30,087 --> 00:22:34,670 (Ehrenreich speaking foreign language) 504 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:37,620 Of decisive importance 505 00:22:37,620 --> 00:22:41,190 is how long it takes for the mouse to attack the intruder. 506 00:22:41,190 --> 00:22:43,320 The assumption is that male mice 507 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,570 with the manipulated aggression gene 508 00:22:45,570 --> 00:22:46,860 will attack more quickly 509 00:22:46,860 --> 00:22:49,800 than others of the same species. 510 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,210 The one mouse is not happy 511 00:22:51,210 --> 00:22:54,180 that the intruder is lying in its bed. 512 00:22:54,180 --> 00:22:55,590 It's not immediate, 513 00:22:55,590 --> 00:22:59,193 but slowly the intensity begins to build up. 514 00:23:03,450 --> 00:23:04,740 Now they're wrestling. 515 00:23:04,740 --> 00:23:07,083 Soon the researchers will have to intervene. 516 00:23:08,340 --> 00:23:09,510 The experiment is stopped 517 00:23:09,510 --> 00:23:12,360 before one of the animals gets hurt. 518 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:13,890 The object of the experiment 519 00:23:13,890 --> 00:23:15,870 is to determine the number of genes 520 00:23:15,870 --> 00:23:17,970 which influence our behavior. 521 00:23:17,970 --> 00:23:19,710 The advantage of the mouse models 522 00:23:19,710 --> 00:23:23,370 is that the results can often be applied to humans. 523 00:23:23,370 --> 00:23:24,870 With both mice and humans, 524 00:23:24,870 --> 00:23:28,080 researchers are interested in the expression of a gene, 525 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,470 as it's known the process by which genetic information 526 00:23:31,470 --> 00:23:35,043 is translated and made usable in the cell as protein. 527 00:23:37,397 --> 00:23:40,230 (Ehrenreich speaking foreign language) 528 00:23:40,230 --> 00:23:43,500 We studied one gene, MECP2, in the mouse 529 00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:46,470 and were able to determine that it really is associated 530 00:23:46,470 --> 00:23:48,150 with aggressive behavior. 531 00:23:48,150 --> 00:23:49,860 When the expression of the gene, 532 00:23:49,860 --> 00:23:52,114 the protein volume changes. 533 00:23:52,114 --> 00:23:56,670 (Ehrenreich speaking foreign language) 534 00:23:56,670 --> 00:24:00,030 And we really did succeed in showing that this gene, 535 00:24:00,030 --> 00:24:02,880 when it changes its expression in humans, 536 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:04,883 produces greater aggression. 537 00:24:04,883 --> 00:24:09,030 (Ehrenreich speaking foreign language) 538 00:24:09,030 --> 00:24:11,520 In animals like these chimpanzees, 539 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,280 brutal aggression is rarely unmotivated. 540 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:18,240 Rank, territory, and mating rights are fought over, 541 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,030 but such conflicts rarely have a fatal outcome. 542 00:24:21,030 --> 00:24:22,800 In competition situations, 543 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,520 dominant male chimpanzees display the same physical reaction 544 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,200 as male humans. 545 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,380 The aggressive behavior is regulated by the sex hormone, 546 00:24:31,380 --> 00:24:32,820 testosterone. 547 00:24:32,820 --> 00:24:35,356 So, is evil a male characteristic? 548 00:24:35,356 --> 00:24:38,243 (chimpanzees screaming) 549 00:24:38,243 --> 00:24:41,250 (Ehrenreich speaking foreign language) 550 00:24:41,250 --> 00:24:43,890 As an extremely diplomatic answer, 551 00:24:43,890 --> 00:24:48,390 I would say that aggression is easier to identify in males. 552 00:24:48,390 --> 00:24:50,490 Going for one another, fighting, 553 00:24:50,490 --> 00:24:53,730 or as in the case of the mouse, attacking a rival, 554 00:24:53,730 --> 00:24:56,130 is more of a male reaction. 555 00:24:56,130 --> 00:24:59,970 You might say in reply that some women even box. 556 00:24:59,970 --> 00:25:01,650 Indeed they do, 557 00:25:01,650 --> 00:25:04,620 and this means developing a certain degree of aggression 558 00:25:04,620 --> 00:25:07,203 because in sport too aggression is important. 559 00:25:08,670 --> 00:25:10,650 If your aggression is inhibited, 560 00:25:10,650 --> 00:25:13,140 you won't be able to box, 561 00:25:13,140 --> 00:25:15,543 but that is certainly not the prototype. 562 00:25:18,210 --> 00:25:19,620 Professor Svenja Taubner 563 00:25:19,620 --> 00:25:21,600 from the University of Heidelberg 564 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,630 works with so-called antisocial adolescents. 565 00:25:24,630 --> 00:25:27,210 She treats young people who have attracted attention 566 00:25:27,210 --> 00:25:29,403 through their disturbed social behavior. 567 00:25:30,450 --> 00:25:33,513 This also includes violent crime and aggressive behavior. 568 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,150 There's no way I want to be a victim. 569 00:25:39,150 --> 00:25:41,580 That is a central issue for the adolescents 570 00:25:41,580 --> 00:25:42,753 in therapy with me. 571 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,770 On no account do they want to become a victim. 572 00:25:46,770 --> 00:25:48,750 Victim is a dirty word, 573 00:25:48,750 --> 00:25:52,050 and so a certain degree of strength has to be shown. 574 00:25:52,050 --> 00:25:54,930 That is also massive motivation to commit crimes 575 00:25:54,930 --> 00:25:56,737 or display aggressive behavior. 576 00:25:56,737 --> 00:26:00,960 (Svenja speaking foreign language) 577 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,150 Research into the brain helps scientists 578 00:26:03,150 --> 00:26:06,480 to understand the mechanics of violence in adolescents. 579 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,250 The brains of those young people 580 00:26:08,250 --> 00:26:10,170 prepared to resort to violent 581 00:26:10,170 --> 00:26:12,480 reveal different activation patterns 582 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,970 from those of non-violent adolescents. 583 00:26:14,970 --> 00:26:17,190 In order to test this in a scan, 584 00:26:17,190 --> 00:26:19,290 they were shown different situations, 585 00:26:19,290 --> 00:26:21,150 some of which were threatening. 586 00:26:21,150 --> 00:26:24,450 In cases of extreme threat with non-violent adolescents, 587 00:26:24,450 --> 00:26:27,420 a kind of shock-induced paralysis set in 588 00:26:27,420 --> 00:26:30,540 which initially allowed them to assess the situation. 589 00:26:30,540 --> 00:26:33,120 But the adolescents who were ready to use violence 590 00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:35,035 reacted differently. 591 00:26:35,035 --> 00:26:36,720 (Svenja speaking foreign language) 592 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,010 The aggressive young men 593 00:26:38,010 --> 00:26:40,770 didn't have this shock-induced paralysis. 594 00:26:40,770 --> 00:26:43,290 The activation here shows that they would go straight 595 00:26:43,290 --> 00:26:44,880 into reaction mode. 596 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,623 They would either flee or fight. 597 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:50,910 Where do we have to start 598 00:26:50,910 --> 00:26:53,040 to prevent a pathological development 599 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:54,813 in aggressive adolescents? 600 00:26:56,340 --> 00:26:58,410 In addition to biological factors, 601 00:26:58,410 --> 00:27:00,870 social factors in particular favor the risk 602 00:27:00,870 --> 00:27:02,793 of disturbed social behavior. 603 00:27:04,020 --> 00:27:07,743 Difficulties in early relationships neglect abuse. 604 00:27:09,870 --> 00:27:12,510 The best intervention is family therapy, 605 00:27:12,510 --> 00:27:14,610 working with families and intervening 606 00:27:14,610 --> 00:27:17,093 at as early stage as possible. 607 00:27:17,093 --> 00:27:19,020 (Svenja speaking foreign language) 608 00:27:19,020 --> 00:27:21,810 The best thing to do is to give adolescents and children 609 00:27:21,810 --> 00:27:24,360 a feeling of self-value, acknowledgement, 610 00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:27,540 and the ability to be able to perceive others and themselves 611 00:27:27,540 --> 00:27:28,863 in an empathetic way. 612 00:27:30,386 --> 00:27:33,180 (suspenseful music) 613 00:27:33,180 --> 00:27:34,680 We have all encountered evil 614 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,027 at some time or other, 615 00:27:36,027 --> 00:27:38,040 but it remains abstract. 616 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,553 It can't be measured, it can't be categorized or grasped. 617 00:27:42,540 --> 00:27:44,550 It changes its appearance, 618 00:27:44,550 --> 00:27:47,507 adapting to what we want to understand of it. 619 00:27:47,507 --> 00:27:50,760 (suspenseful music) 620 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,903 Often not even the person doing evil recognizes it, 621 00:27:56,190 --> 00:27:58,881 even when the evil is inside them. 622 00:27:58,881 --> 00:28:01,881 (suspenseful music) 623 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,620 For a doctor, evil is basically a series 624 00:28:07,620 --> 00:28:10,140 of destructive modes of behavior, 625 00:28:10,140 --> 00:28:12,060 which a person doesn't think about 626 00:28:12,060 --> 00:28:14,930 because they themselves don't see them as evil. 627 00:28:14,930 --> 00:28:18,063 It is extremely rare for evil to claim to be evil. 628 00:28:19,833 --> 00:28:20,820 I don't really believe 629 00:28:20,820 --> 00:28:23,673 that there's such a thing as evil action per se. 630 00:28:24,660 --> 00:28:27,960 So in this respect, we need to rethink a little. 631 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,150 Each person acts in their reality 632 00:28:30,150 --> 00:28:33,765 or in their biological conception in a specific way. 633 00:28:33,765 --> 00:28:35,850 (Anke speaking foreign language) 634 00:28:35,850 --> 00:28:38,490 Science, however, is absolutely central 635 00:28:38,490 --> 00:28:41,340 with regard to why a certain mode of behavior 636 00:28:41,340 --> 00:28:44,010 seems to be the best option to a certain person 637 00:28:44,010 --> 00:28:45,423 at a certain point of time. 638 00:28:47,910 --> 00:28:49,980 Science focuses on the dark side 639 00:28:49,980 --> 00:28:51,690 of a person's character. 640 00:28:51,690 --> 00:28:53,970 At the University of Koblenz-Landau, 641 00:28:53,970 --> 00:28:57,090 Cognitive Psychologist, Professor Benjamin Hilbig, 642 00:28:57,090 --> 00:28:59,160 and his colleagues have even developed 643 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:03,660 a kind of measuring instrument they call the dark factor. 644 00:29:03,660 --> 00:29:07,110 The theory behind it is that all dark characteristics 645 00:29:07,110 --> 00:29:09,633 of a human being have a common denominator. 646 00:29:10,758 --> 00:29:13,230 (Benjamin speaking foreign language) 647 00:29:13,230 --> 00:29:15,300 Basically, this common denominator 648 00:29:15,300 --> 00:29:18,180 is the tendency to maximize one's own advantage 649 00:29:18,180 --> 00:29:19,683 at the cost of someone else. 650 00:29:21,510 --> 00:29:24,510 This is done partly by ignoring the harm they have suffered. 651 00:29:26,130 --> 00:29:28,860 One particular finding of the dark factor 652 00:29:28,860 --> 00:29:32,250 is that more unites egoists, Machiavelli persons, 653 00:29:32,250 --> 00:29:35,250 narcissists, psychopaths, and sadists 654 00:29:35,250 --> 00:29:36,423 than separates them. 655 00:29:38,580 --> 00:29:39,450 First and foremost, 656 00:29:39,450 --> 00:29:41,220 what is really part of this dark factor 657 00:29:41,220 --> 00:29:43,500 is that a person is absolutely full of himself, 658 00:29:43,500 --> 00:29:45,780 he believes that he deserves more than others, 659 00:29:45,780 --> 00:29:47,040 but there are many other convictions 660 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:48,840 which justify such behavior. 661 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:50,070 I might believe, for example, 662 00:29:50,070 --> 00:29:51,240 that the world is evil, 663 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,580 a violent place where everyone is fighting for himself, 664 00:29:53,580 --> 00:29:55,380 so that's what I have to do. 665 00:29:55,380 --> 00:29:57,600 Basically, I have to protect myself from the others 666 00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,460 who only want to exploit me anyway. 667 00:29:59,460 --> 00:30:02,370 I might also believe that there is no such thing as justice, 668 00:30:02,370 --> 00:30:04,770 so my behavior can't be evil or wrong. 669 00:30:04,770 --> 00:30:07,620 All these are convictions that justify forms of behavior 670 00:30:07,620 --> 00:30:10,053 which a person might perhaps not show otherwise. 671 00:30:12,570 --> 00:30:15,420 To determine the level of a person's dark factor, 672 00:30:15,420 --> 00:30:18,180 professor Hilbig relies on questionnaires 673 00:30:18,180 --> 00:30:22,174 and behavioral experiments like the dictator game. 674 00:30:22,174 --> 00:30:24,450 (upbeat music) 675 00:30:24,450 --> 00:30:27,030 Test persons receive a certain sum of money, 676 00:30:27,030 --> 00:30:28,530 and normally unobserved, 677 00:30:28,530 --> 00:30:31,388 have to share it with an anonymous stranger. 678 00:30:31,388 --> 00:30:33,971 (upbeat music) 679 00:30:35,370 --> 00:30:37,350 This can be seen as an extremely simple way 680 00:30:37,350 --> 00:30:40,770 of determining how egoistic or altruistic a person is. 681 00:30:40,770 --> 00:30:43,440 Basically, the test persons are free to divide up the sum 682 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:44,340 as they wish, 683 00:30:44,340 --> 00:30:46,440 and we don't know in each individual case 684 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:47,580 how they have done this. 685 00:30:47,580 --> 00:30:49,950 But this sharing out really does take place, 686 00:30:49,950 --> 00:30:51,810 another person does receive the money, 687 00:30:51,810 --> 00:30:54,123 so everything is genuine, so to speak. 688 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,560 Experiments like the dictator game 689 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,470 have a long tradition in behavioral research, 690 00:31:01,470 --> 00:31:04,023 and on average, the result is always the same. 691 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,763 Around 1/3 of the test persons divide up the money equally, 692 00:31:09,870 --> 00:31:13,290 and in some rare cases, even give more than half. 693 00:31:13,290 --> 00:31:16,320 Another third gives something, but less than half. 694 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,500 And the final third keep everything for themselves. 695 00:31:19,500 --> 00:31:20,373 Coincidence? 696 00:31:21,390 --> 00:31:23,160 When you consider which modes of behavior 697 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:24,570 are evident in this game, 698 00:31:24,570 --> 00:31:26,790 then each, I think, can be explained. 699 00:31:26,790 --> 00:31:28,050 I can say, why not? 700 00:31:28,050 --> 00:31:30,540 The money is here and for now it's mine. 701 00:31:30,540 --> 00:31:31,920 Why should I give it away? 702 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:33,930 I think it's plausible to reason like that, 703 00:31:33,930 --> 00:31:36,960 especially when it corresponds to the views you hold. 704 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,930 You can equally say, my goodness, I've got to be fair, 705 00:31:39,930 --> 00:31:41,850 or you might want to opt for a middle cause. 706 00:31:41,850 --> 00:31:43,950 For example, it would be nice to be fair, 707 00:31:43,950 --> 00:31:44,940 but on the other hand, 708 00:31:44,940 --> 00:31:47,160 I've got the money, I've got the power, 709 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:48,543 so I deserve a bit more. 710 00:31:51,060 --> 00:31:53,610 The dark factor doesn't claim to measure evil, 711 00:31:53,610 --> 00:31:57,720 it establishes a value for dark personal traits. 712 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,930 But is it not really a bit evil for someone to keep most, 713 00:32:00,930 --> 00:32:03,183 or indeed, all of the money for themselves? 714 00:32:04,890 --> 00:32:06,450 It is not evil. 715 00:32:06,450 --> 00:32:08,160 Many economic models, in fact, 716 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:09,930 would say it is simply rational, 717 00:32:09,930 --> 00:32:12,420 but we can also say that it's not fair 718 00:32:12,420 --> 00:32:15,180 and it's not what most normal people would expect. 719 00:32:15,180 --> 00:32:16,140 So if you ask someone 720 00:32:16,140 --> 00:32:18,060 what they would expect to find in the envelope, 721 00:32:18,060 --> 00:32:19,893 then most would say some money. 722 00:32:21,660 --> 00:32:23,790 There is only one person who can decide 723 00:32:23,790 --> 00:32:25,950 whether his behavior is justified, 724 00:32:25,950 --> 00:32:27,423 the individual himself. 725 00:32:29,190 --> 00:32:30,360 One of our central needs 726 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,670 is to have a positive image of ourselves, 727 00:32:32,670 --> 00:32:35,670 to be able to say that what I am doing is acceptable. 728 00:32:35,670 --> 00:32:37,470 My actions serve a certain purpose, 729 00:32:37,470 --> 00:32:39,300 and this purpose is good and proper. 730 00:32:39,300 --> 00:32:41,670 And as long as we can claim this about ourselves, 731 00:32:41,670 --> 00:32:44,220 we are also in a position to display behavior 732 00:32:44,220 --> 00:32:46,350 which could possibly be seen by others 733 00:32:46,350 --> 00:32:48,153 as harmful or even evil. 734 00:32:50,370 --> 00:32:52,320 Developing a positive self-image 735 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,560 is one of the biggest challenges facing adolescents. 736 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,010 Anders Breivik changed schools several times. 737 00:32:59,010 --> 00:33:01,440 After being cold-shouldered by the taggers, 738 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,560 he was regarded by many fellow pupils as a loser, 739 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:05,913 he was an outsider. 740 00:33:08,190 --> 00:33:10,020 What I find important in his case 741 00:33:10,020 --> 00:33:12,180 is that this rejection was so problematic 742 00:33:12,180 --> 00:33:13,410 because he seemed to have had 743 00:33:13,410 --> 00:33:15,900 a relatively high opinion of himself. 744 00:33:15,900 --> 00:33:19,140 Only then, of course, is rejection or failure a problem. 745 00:33:19,140 --> 00:33:21,960 You see this with out-and-out narcissists. 746 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,150 They function superbly and don't have any problem 747 00:33:24,150 --> 00:33:25,740 as long as they're successful, 748 00:33:25,740 --> 00:33:27,900 as long as they find acknowledgement. 749 00:33:27,900 --> 00:33:30,150 But if that is lacking or if they are not successful, 750 00:33:30,150 --> 00:33:32,693 then things like depressions threaten. 751 00:33:32,693 --> 00:33:35,760 (Benjamin speaking foreign language) 752 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,490 His last school, a commercial secondary school, 753 00:33:38,490 --> 00:33:40,650 also proved to be a dead end. 754 00:33:40,650 --> 00:33:43,350 Breivik left without any qualifications, 755 00:33:43,350 --> 00:33:45,690 but he had other plans anyway. 756 00:33:45,690 --> 00:33:49,200 He started a part-time job with a telemarketing company, 757 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,380 even though he was moving in a gray area of law 758 00:33:52,380 --> 00:33:53,973 as it was described later. 759 00:33:55,500 --> 00:33:58,410 School no longer seemed important to him. 760 00:33:58,410 --> 00:34:00,900 He had also found and joined a new group. 761 00:34:00,900 --> 00:34:02,280 Breivik became involved 762 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,740 in the right-wing populist progress party, 763 00:34:04,740 --> 00:34:06,630 the party which opposed the tagger scene 764 00:34:06,630 --> 00:34:08,313 he had once wanted to belong to. 765 00:34:11,123 --> 00:34:15,373 (Nahlah speaking foreign language) 766 00:34:17,070 --> 00:34:20,160 It is about combating what caused you pain, 767 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,260 and if this party had caused him pain, 768 00:34:22,260 --> 00:34:24,210 he would've moved on to yet another party 769 00:34:24,210 --> 00:34:26,076 and then fought his previous one. 770 00:34:26,076 --> 00:34:29,850 (Nahlah speaking foreign language) 771 00:34:29,850 --> 00:34:31,650 So it is always about combating 772 00:34:31,650 --> 00:34:35,010 what a person imagines has caused him suffering 773 00:34:35,010 --> 00:34:38,040 as a kind of mighty ruler passing the last judgment, 774 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:38,947 so to speak. 775 00:34:38,947 --> 00:34:43,860 (Nahlah speaking foreign language) 776 00:34:43,860 --> 00:34:44,693 At this time, 777 00:34:44,693 --> 00:34:47,550 Anders Breivik was quite successful in his job, 778 00:34:47,550 --> 00:34:49,500 albeit not always legally. 779 00:34:49,500 --> 00:34:51,750 Within the space of a few years, 780 00:34:51,750 --> 00:34:54,300 he had earned a sizable amount of money online 781 00:34:54,300 --> 00:34:56,343 with forged US diplomas, 782 00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,730 but he was close to being arrested. 783 00:34:59,730 --> 00:35:02,820 What's more, he had lost his last financial reserves 784 00:35:02,820 --> 00:35:04,170 on the stock market 785 00:35:04,170 --> 00:35:06,750 and in his party he had not even been considered 786 00:35:06,750 --> 00:35:08,073 for a leading position. 787 00:35:09,150 --> 00:35:10,800 Rejected once again, 788 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,563 Anders Breivik moved back in with his mother. 789 00:35:15,352 --> 00:35:18,810 (Nahlah speaking foreign language) 790 00:35:18,810 --> 00:35:20,040 When external elements 791 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:21,480 of someone's life collapse 792 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,000 and they are faced with failure once again, 793 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,550 it is typical for radicalization to be chosen 794 00:35:26,550 --> 00:35:28,053 as an exit strategy. 795 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,053 Such people have to reorientate, 796 00:35:31,914 --> 00:35:33,930 but they can't reorientate, 797 00:35:33,930 --> 00:35:35,790 they can burn all the bridges. 798 00:35:35,790 --> 00:35:38,190 There's actually nothing more to hold them back. 799 00:35:40,980 --> 00:35:42,270 Over the next five years, 800 00:35:42,270 --> 00:35:43,920 Breivik rarely left his room, 801 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,800 often spending entire days on the internet. 802 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,010 He rarely met up with old friends from his childhood. 803 00:35:50,010 --> 00:35:52,170 He told them that he was collecting articles 804 00:35:52,170 --> 00:35:54,390 on the Islamization of Europe, 805 00:35:54,390 --> 00:35:57,034 but then he even broke off those contacts. 806 00:35:57,034 --> 00:35:59,640 (lively music) 807 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:01,500 The internet provided him with the fuel 808 00:36:01,500 --> 00:36:02,970 for the world of ideas 809 00:36:02,970 --> 00:36:05,790 in which Breivik was moving at the time. 810 00:36:05,790 --> 00:36:07,470 Over the first few years, 811 00:36:07,470 --> 00:36:09,990 he played excessive online games, 812 00:36:09,990 --> 00:36:13,173 but now it was very specific websites he was visiting. 813 00:36:15,270 --> 00:36:16,170 In the majority of cases, 814 00:36:16,170 --> 00:36:17,940 it's offline radicalization, 815 00:36:17,940 --> 00:36:21,390 it's your group of friends co-radicalizing each other. 816 00:36:21,390 --> 00:36:25,320 In a minority of cases, it's social interaction online. 817 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,540 The idea of someone just watching videos 818 00:36:27,540 --> 00:36:29,550 without any interaction whatsoever 819 00:36:29,550 --> 00:36:32,190 or reading books without any interaction, 820 00:36:32,190 --> 00:36:34,440 the few cases that do exist, 821 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,120 we can't say for sure 822 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,280 that there wasn't other people involved, 823 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,561 we just don't know if there were or were not. 824 00:36:40,561 --> 00:36:42,990 (gentle music) 825 00:36:42,990 --> 00:36:46,050 But how does radicalization work? 826 00:36:46,050 --> 00:36:46,883 To find out 827 00:36:46,883 --> 00:36:50,130 on behalf of an international consortium of scientists, 828 00:36:50,130 --> 00:36:53,280 Nafees Hamid spent two years carrying out research 829 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:54,858 in a Jihadist milieu. 830 00:36:54,858 --> 00:36:56,520 (suspenseful music) 831 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,170 Part of what radicalization does 832 00:36:58,170 --> 00:36:59,820 is it gives you agency again, 833 00:36:59,820 --> 00:37:00,930 it makes you feel important, 834 00:37:00,930 --> 00:37:02,760 it gives you purpose, it gives you a direction, 835 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,940 it gives you action, it gives you identities and values, 836 00:37:05,940 --> 00:37:06,900 it gives you a community 837 00:37:06,900 --> 00:37:08,880 that you may not even see around you, 838 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:10,890 but you're led to believe that 100 years from now 839 00:37:10,890 --> 00:37:14,040 that community exists and is going to reward you 840 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,440 for your heroic actions that you're doing today. 841 00:37:18,720 --> 00:37:21,420 What makes a person ascribe to radical ideas, 842 00:37:21,420 --> 00:37:24,690 to kill for them, to put his own life on the line, 843 00:37:24,690 --> 00:37:28,480 to place his own agenda above the well-being of others? 844 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,480 (suspenseful music) 845 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,000 Researchers claim that the value system 846 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,553 of radical terror sympathizers is askew. 847 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:40,770 Like most of his kind, 848 00:37:40,770 --> 00:37:44,970 even a Jihadist has so-called sacred and non-sacred values, 849 00:37:44,970 --> 00:37:46,413 which play a major role. 850 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,840 Sacred values are values that probably most people have. 851 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,930 Any moral conviction that you really strongly believe in 852 00:37:54,930 --> 00:37:56,973 could potentially be a sacred value. 853 00:37:57,870 --> 00:38:00,000 For some people, freedom of speech is a sacred value, 854 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,940 for other people, civil liberties can be a sacred value. 855 00:38:02,940 --> 00:38:06,030 It's any value that you would not negotiate on 856 00:38:06,030 --> 00:38:07,710 and you would never violate. 857 00:38:07,710 --> 00:38:09,990 And when people perceive their sacred values 858 00:38:09,990 --> 00:38:11,250 to be under threat, 859 00:38:11,250 --> 00:38:13,953 that's when they're willing to fight for those values. 860 00:38:16,650 --> 00:38:17,940 But what happens exactly 861 00:38:17,940 --> 00:38:20,043 when a sacred value is threatened? 862 00:38:21,630 --> 00:38:24,210 One answer why the Jihadists who were examined 863 00:38:24,210 --> 00:38:27,180 were prepared to commit extreme acts for their cause 864 00:38:27,180 --> 00:38:29,880 is revealed by a look into their brain. 865 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:31,980 When they were thinking about their sacred values, 866 00:38:31,980 --> 00:38:35,820 what happened was that you had decreased activation 867 00:38:35,820 --> 00:38:37,830 in an area of the brain that's associated 868 00:38:37,830 --> 00:38:39,360 with deliberative reasoning. 869 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,280 So when they thought of their sacred values, 870 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,473 deliberative reasoning went offline. 871 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,913 Sacred values are non-negotiable, 872 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,873 but maybe the way they are acted out is. 873 00:38:53,130 --> 00:38:55,380 These values also seem to be important 874 00:38:55,380 --> 00:38:57,723 in the evaluation of terrorist attacks. 875 00:38:59,250 --> 00:39:02,250 Here we see that not every operation is supported 876 00:39:02,250 --> 00:39:04,200 by all Islamists. 877 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,390 So the Bataclan attack was not as popular 878 00:39:06,390 --> 00:39:08,130 amongst sympathizers. 879 00:39:08,130 --> 00:39:09,300 It got a lot of backlash. 880 00:39:09,300 --> 00:39:11,400 In fact, right after the attack, 881 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:12,990 I think there was something like 50, 882 00:39:12,990 --> 00:39:16,470 more than 50 Jihadist groups that signed a letter saying, 883 00:39:16,470 --> 00:39:18,870 we condemn these attacks. 884 00:39:18,870 --> 00:39:20,070 But that wasn't the case 885 00:39:20,070 --> 00:39:22,350 with regard to the attack on the Paris offices 886 00:39:22,350 --> 00:39:24,780 of French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo 887 00:39:24,780 --> 00:39:28,260 when two Islamist assassins murdered 12 people. 888 00:39:28,260 --> 00:39:30,990 We did all these surveys on sacred values 889 00:39:30,990 --> 00:39:33,540 just amongst normal Muslims in Europe 890 00:39:33,540 --> 00:39:37,140 and the one value that was always sacred, regardless, 891 00:39:37,140 --> 00:39:41,760 even the most peaceful person, the most pacifist person, 892 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:45,663 was we should never draw cartoons of Prophet Mohammed. 893 00:39:46,620 --> 00:39:49,290 Anders Breivik became more and more radical. 894 00:39:49,290 --> 00:39:50,940 He now had a new mission. 895 00:39:50,940 --> 00:39:53,490 He spent days and nights surfing websites 896 00:39:53,490 --> 00:39:56,370 which reflected his crude view of the world. 897 00:39:56,370 --> 00:39:58,470 He tried in vain to establish contact 898 00:39:58,470 --> 00:40:00,180 with the leaders of the scene. 899 00:40:00,180 --> 00:40:01,860 Rejection once again. 900 00:40:01,860 --> 00:40:04,890 He was a hermit who expressed his hatred of the world 901 00:40:04,890 --> 00:40:07,890 in a 1,500-page manuscript. 902 00:40:07,890 --> 00:40:11,070 Generally you see overall fewer lone actors 903 00:40:11,070 --> 00:40:12,630 than group actors. 904 00:40:12,630 --> 00:40:15,060 And we haven't yet seen 905 00:40:15,060 --> 00:40:17,730 who the radicalizing milieu could have been, 906 00:40:17,730 --> 00:40:19,950 whether it was online or offline, 907 00:40:19,950 --> 00:40:21,600 and that's also very rare, 908 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,160 that's kind of exceptional. 909 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,310 Usually you're able to find a mentor 910 00:40:26,310 --> 00:40:29,163 or someone who's co-radicalizing a friend. 911 00:40:30,900 --> 00:40:33,080 The fact that this kind of perpetrator 912 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:34,320 is not the rule, 913 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:35,850 but no longer the exception, 914 00:40:35,850 --> 00:40:37,620 is shown by the case of Stephan B 915 00:40:37,620 --> 00:40:39,960 from Halle in eastern Germany. 916 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,510 He failed in his attempt to commit mass murder 917 00:40:42,510 --> 00:40:43,710 in a synagogue. 918 00:40:43,710 --> 00:40:46,680 Instead, he shot dead a woman in the middle of the street 919 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:48,663 and a man in a kebab takeaway. 920 00:40:49,530 --> 00:40:51,060 In initial interrogation, 921 00:40:51,060 --> 00:40:53,760 Stephan B expressed right-wing extremist 922 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:55,800 and anti-Semitic motives. 923 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:57,840 He described himself as a loner, 924 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,540 saying he'd never had friends or a girlfriend. 925 00:41:00,540 --> 00:41:04,236 He was, quote, "A discontented white man." 926 00:41:04,236 --> 00:41:07,236 (suspenseful music) 927 00:41:08,379 --> 00:41:11,010 (Daniel speaking foreign language) 928 00:41:11,010 --> 00:41:12,660 When you look at the biographies 929 00:41:12,660 --> 00:41:15,360 and the writings of mass murderers, 930 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:17,130 it's most surprising to see 931 00:41:17,130 --> 00:41:19,890 that they all say the same thing, 932 00:41:19,890 --> 00:41:22,320 I've had a rotten life. 933 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,680 Women have never been interested in me. 934 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:27,273 I've lived in a nightmare. 935 00:41:28,986 --> 00:41:31,470 (suspenseful music) 936 00:41:31,470 --> 00:41:33,450 There are alarming parallels 937 00:41:33,450 --> 00:41:36,810 between Stephan B's life and that of Anders Breivik, 938 00:41:36,810 --> 00:41:40,050 a young man cut off from society who lived with his mother 939 00:41:40,050 --> 00:41:43,110 in a room with the door permanently closed. 940 00:41:43,110 --> 00:41:45,210 Stephan B also found his right-wing 941 00:41:45,210 --> 00:41:46,680 extremist view of the world 942 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,410 confirmed in anonymous internet forums, 943 00:41:49,410 --> 00:41:51,570 and before committing his crime, 944 00:41:51,570 --> 00:41:53,700 left behind a manifesto. 945 00:41:53,700 --> 00:41:57,300 A lost biography, an inevitable development? 946 00:41:57,300 --> 00:42:00,180 Experts are of a different opinion. 947 00:42:00,180 --> 00:42:02,370 They believe there can be a turning point 948 00:42:02,370 --> 00:42:05,400 in everyone's life which changes everything, 949 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,830 but that wasn't the case with Anders Breivik. 950 00:42:07,830 --> 00:42:10,140 He rented a farm outside Oslo 951 00:42:10,140 --> 00:42:11,730 and prepared to carry out a crime 952 00:42:11,730 --> 00:42:14,700 he had spent years planning meticulously. 953 00:42:14,700 --> 00:42:17,940 He purchased several tons of artificial fertilizer, 954 00:42:17,940 --> 00:42:21,300 using it to make various explosive charges. 955 00:42:21,300 --> 00:42:24,180 He honed his body, he took steroids, 956 00:42:24,180 --> 00:42:25,740 he practiced shooting, 957 00:42:25,740 --> 00:42:28,650 and he also trained how to react with minimal emotion 958 00:42:28,650 --> 00:42:30,120 when the day came. 959 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:34,274 But can empathy be switched on and off like a lamp? 960 00:42:34,274 --> 00:42:39,240 (Nahlah speaking foreign language) 961 00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:41,430 We know from a totally different case, 962 00:42:41,430 --> 00:42:43,710 that of the 9/11 terrorists, 963 00:42:43,710 --> 00:42:46,080 that in his will, Mohamed Atta, for example, 964 00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:47,550 had stated categorically 965 00:42:47,550 --> 00:42:50,130 that it was essential not to think of other people 966 00:42:50,130 --> 00:42:52,630 because that would stop you carrying out the deed. 967 00:42:54,540 --> 00:42:56,820 So assassins definitely calculate 968 00:42:56,820 --> 00:42:58,740 what kind of a situation they might encounter 969 00:42:58,740 --> 00:43:01,920 that would prevent them from implementing their plan. 970 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,233 They prepare mentally for this contingency. 971 00:43:06,150 --> 00:43:09,150 Breivik killed many of his victims face to face. 972 00:43:09,150 --> 00:43:10,800 He showed no sympathy. 973 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:12,060 At the end of the day, 974 00:43:12,060 --> 00:43:14,043 77 people were dead. 975 00:43:18,510 --> 00:43:21,240 A killer like Anders Breivik is quickly regarded 976 00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:22,680 as mentally ill. 977 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,623 His crime seemed simply too monstrous. 978 00:43:26,820 --> 00:43:31,110 And indeed, an initial assessment diagnosed schizophrenia, 979 00:43:31,110 --> 00:43:33,180 an evaluation which caused a few roar 980 00:43:33,180 --> 00:43:34,803 among the people of Norway. 981 00:43:40,170 --> 00:43:41,760 We are talking about a man 982 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,190 who had planned his deed for years, 983 00:43:44,190 --> 00:43:45,300 announced it, 984 00:43:45,300 --> 00:43:48,867 and then carried it out meticulously in two phases, 985 00:43:48,867 --> 00:43:52,440 and in doing so, sought maximum publicity. 986 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,680 So from a legal and medical point of view, 987 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:59,520 with such organization and continuity involved, 988 00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:01,083 I find it impossible to say 989 00:44:01,083 --> 00:44:05,493 that the deed can only be explained as a mental disorder. 990 00:44:06,420 --> 00:44:09,064 That is out of the question. 991 00:44:09,064 --> 00:44:13,314 (Daniel speaking foreign language) 992 00:44:14,580 --> 00:44:15,540 And the Norwegians 993 00:44:15,540 --> 00:44:18,330 didn't accept the initial diagnosis either. 994 00:44:18,330 --> 00:44:21,090 It was an acid test for the stricken country. 995 00:44:21,090 --> 00:44:23,250 Its liberal population were stunned 996 00:44:23,250 --> 00:44:25,290 by the medical assessment. 997 00:44:25,290 --> 00:44:28,110 Can a perpetrator not be criminally liable 998 00:44:28,110 --> 00:44:29,760 because of mental illness, 999 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,310 even though he planned the most evil of deeds 1000 00:44:32,310 --> 00:44:34,413 in great detail over many years? 1001 00:44:36,388 --> 00:44:38,670 (Nahlah speaking foreign language) 1002 00:44:38,670 --> 00:44:39,870 In normal civil life 1003 00:44:39,870 --> 00:44:42,210 there are also people with personality disorders 1004 00:44:42,210 --> 00:44:43,680 who are a pain in the neck, 1005 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,480 but managed to get by. 1006 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:46,710 In normative terms, 1007 00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:48,990 what is of interest in a constitutional state 1008 00:44:48,990 --> 00:44:52,050 is the degree to which a person's ability to cope with life 1009 00:44:52,050 --> 00:44:54,633 is inhibited by their personality disorder. 1010 00:44:55,770 --> 00:44:57,960 And I must say that Anders Breivik 1011 00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,780 had a relatively large number of balances, 1012 00:45:00,780 --> 00:45:03,390 including all his deception campaigns, 1013 00:45:03,390 --> 00:45:05,670 so he coped very well in life. 1014 00:45:05,670 --> 00:45:08,070 He had the potential to handle his life differently 1015 00:45:08,070 --> 00:45:09,273 in some way or other. 1016 00:45:10,890 --> 00:45:13,680 The court ordered a second expert's report 1017 00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,200 and it came to a different conclusion. 1018 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,543 Breivik was criminally liable. 1019 00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:21,810 He was sentenced to 21 years in jail 1020 00:45:21,810 --> 00:45:23,943 to be followed by preventive detention. 1021 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,880 Our legal system is based on the concept of free will. 1022 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:31,860 This assumes that, as a rule, 1023 00:45:31,860 --> 00:45:35,850 a perpetrator consciously decides to commit a criminal act. 1024 00:45:35,850 --> 00:45:39,180 But is this system still in keeping with the times, 1025 00:45:39,180 --> 00:45:40,920 or do we need to take new findings 1026 00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,380 in the fields of gene genetics and epigenetics 1027 00:45:43,380 --> 00:45:46,593 into account and assessing and sentencing an offender? 1028 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:48,713 In the past, 1029 00:45:48,713 --> 00:45:50,940 there have already been several court judgements 1030 00:45:50,940 --> 00:45:53,190 in which genes played a role. 1031 00:45:53,190 --> 00:45:54,660 In Italy, for instance, 1032 00:45:54,660 --> 00:45:56,610 a killer was given a lighter sentence 1033 00:45:56,610 --> 00:45:59,160 because an expert's report confirmed 1034 00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,490 that he had a predisposition towards violence. 1035 00:46:02,490 --> 00:46:06,227 But what role will biological factors play in future? 1036 00:46:06,227 --> 00:46:08,810 (lively music) 1037 00:46:11,370 --> 00:46:12,450 I think it's ridiculous 1038 00:46:12,450 --> 00:46:14,970 to give someone an MRI scan and then say, 1039 00:46:14,970 --> 00:46:16,950 he couldn't help doing what he did. 1040 00:46:16,950 --> 00:46:18,060 You then have to ask, 1041 00:46:18,060 --> 00:46:21,409 what else wasn't he capable of in everyday life? 1042 00:46:21,409 --> 00:46:23,700 And I can be a gambling addict and rob a bank 1043 00:46:23,700 --> 00:46:25,680 and be not criminally liable 1044 00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,130 because everything else in my life has gone awry. 1045 00:46:29,190 --> 00:46:31,350 And I have a personality differentiation 1046 00:46:31,350 --> 00:46:33,480 as a result of this addictive process, 1047 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,300 which doctors regard as so pathological 1048 00:46:36,300 --> 00:46:38,730 that it has to be compared with schizophrenia. 1049 00:46:38,730 --> 00:46:41,883 But criminal law operates in such an individual way. 1050 00:46:44,250 --> 00:46:45,600 Up until a few years ago, 1051 00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,250 the voices of experts claiming 1052 00:46:47,250 --> 00:46:50,463 that evil was to be sought in our genes were a lot louder. 1053 00:46:51,900 --> 00:46:55,473 Today, even leading scientists take a more rational view. 1054 00:46:57,750 --> 00:46:59,850 I think that the level of aggression 1055 00:46:59,850 --> 00:47:02,070 can be influenced genetically, 1056 00:47:02,070 --> 00:47:04,260 but so many other genes are present 1057 00:47:04,260 --> 00:47:05,973 which have a protective effect. 1058 00:47:07,620 --> 00:47:10,410 In other words, they modulate the degree of aggression 1059 00:47:10,410 --> 00:47:12,300 through other characteristics 1060 00:47:12,300 --> 00:47:14,640 so that we can certainly not say, 1061 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:18,780 if a person has this gene, he or she will become a killer. 1062 00:47:18,780 --> 00:47:20,280 So in this respect, 1063 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,100 I would be very, very careful. 1064 00:47:22,100 --> 00:47:25,110 (Ehrenreich speaking foreign language) 1065 00:47:25,110 --> 00:47:28,080 I hope and believe that judgment will never be passed 1066 00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,480 on a person solely on the basis of genetic information. 1067 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:36,180 (Ehrenreich speaking foreign language) 1068 00:47:36,180 --> 00:47:37,830 Evil is invisible, 1069 00:47:37,830 --> 00:47:39,900 yet it has many faces. 1070 00:47:39,900 --> 00:47:43,110 Today it's going into a hiding more and more, 1071 00:47:43,110 --> 00:47:45,270 forming groups or radicalizing itself 1072 00:47:45,270 --> 00:47:47,160 in its own cutoff world, 1073 00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,200 and then in individual cases, 1074 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:53,280 suddenly reemerging in the form of lone wolf terrorism 1075 00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,890 with fatal consequences for the victim. 1076 00:47:55,890 --> 00:47:58,350 But how can a modern democratic state 1077 00:47:58,350 --> 00:48:01,710 protect itself from evil? 1078 00:48:01,710 --> 00:48:04,320 Radicalization reduces complexity, 1079 00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:06,093 that's what makes it so attractive. 1080 00:48:07,905 --> 00:48:10,710 (Nahlah speaking foreign language) 1081 00:48:10,710 --> 00:48:13,710 I believe that the biggest challenge for complex societies 1082 00:48:13,710 --> 00:48:16,830 lies in enabling people to live in these complex societies 1083 00:48:16,830 --> 00:48:20,073 and have an inner compass within these societies, 1084 00:48:21,780 --> 00:48:24,693 and that means making people emotionally mature. 1085 00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:29,267 What can we do for our children? 1086 00:48:29,267 --> 00:48:30,457 Give them something perhaps, 1087 00:48:30,457 --> 00:48:33,300 give them the capacity for rebellion, 1088 00:48:33,300 --> 00:48:37,080 teach them to be themselves and not to renounce that, 1089 00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:38,940 not to melt within a group 1090 00:48:38,940 --> 00:48:40,440 the moment history calls 1091 00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:43,113 for its murderous collective impulses. 1092 00:48:44,836 --> 00:48:47,836 (suspenseful music) 1093 00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,753 There is no clear recipe against evil. 1094 00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:57,540 Step-by-step, science is decoding its biography, 1095 00:48:57,540 --> 00:49:01,120 its origins, its forms, and its motives 1096 00:49:02,490 --> 00:49:07,490 in order to be able to intervene before evil strikes. 1097 00:49:07,683 --> 00:49:10,683 (suspenseful music) 79772

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