All language subtitles for The.Task.2017.1080p.WEBRip.x265-RARBG

[indistinct chatter]

-[coughs]

[coughs]

[indistinct chatter]

[coughs]

[indistinct chatter]

[scratching sound]

-For me, my-- my
aversion or rejection of the,

uh, ranking, is like
a really deep fear.

Thinking about, like,
being, um, younger,

and uh, female, and I get afraid
because I'm so scared that if,

uh, we start to, like, rank
and categorize we reduce,

or something is lost.

But there's also, like, a reason
why categorization happens.

Because it, like, creates
legibility or the potential for

communication, or...

Like, I wanna-- I wanna,
like, not have to do that.

But also, there's
fallout in not doing that,

or something.

-Right, so my-- my suggestion
wasn't that we should infinitely

assume the roles
that we sort of...

I-- I'm-- I'll gladly take
whatever we decide is the bottom

role.

I think that until
some roles are defined,

we're never going to be
able to reshuffle them into a

configuration
that-- that, you know,

may not work out for everyone
but will ultimately be the most

successful.

-That's a great idea, but no
one's-- no one's latching onto

it.

You put it out there and then
we all go off on some other

tangent.

-Yeah, no one wants to be at
the bottom of the food chain,

which is why I'm offering to be
at the bottom of the food chain.

-I think no one wants to look at
the unconscious roles that are

already happening here, and we
want to make up roles so that we

don't have to deal with that.

It's happening already.
We have roles.

-[man] So what are they?

-Yes, let's look at that.

-[man] What names do you see as
being names of roles that seem

to already emerge
and attach themselves?

-Yes, we've asked these two
white men to hold the anger

towards this consultant,
or the consulting team.

That's one role...

two roles.

-I-- I see the whole group as
rebelling against the consulting

team.

-Right.

-And I think part of it is
because we're very unclear and

feel unsure as to who they are
and what authority we want or

don't want to give them.

-[woman] Like, we feel rejected.

-Well, they haven't articulated
what their authority is.

-[woman] But we feel rejected.
-We have.

-[man] They're a God
class and we're humans.

-[man] But it's also really
convenient because it lets you

avoid a lot of work
among yourselves;

about attractions, about
love, about scariness,

about hatred, about
all sorts of stuff,

but you just beat the shit
out of us in subtle and not so

subtle ways along the way.

-[man] Say that.

-[woman] Yeah, I think
it's hard to feel in here.

Like, I-- I'm-- I've been
sitting here the whole time

feeling, like, "Should I bring
my emotional self in, or not?"

-[man] Yes.
-Should I?

Should I not?

-[man] Yes.
-And I could.

I could, and I'm
like right at the edge,

you can hear it.

-[man] Please.
-And I have a choice.

But I don't feel that
it's safe here to do that.

-You're all-- You're
all saying bring it,

but you killed that
off in me yesterday.

-And I think that's what
we might have planted in...

-[man] Why'd you let it die?

-[man] There are no victims.

There are no victims.

-That is such bullshit!
-[man] It is not.

You're only volunteers.

-[woman] Oh, I just...

-[Kimberly] I would
like to make a suggestion.

There has to be an
establishment of boundaries.

And for me, what makes
me feel comfortable,

and what makes me feel safe, is
when I speak in terms of myself.

I do not speak for all Black
women I do not speak for all

Black people.

I speak for me.
My name is Kimberly.

And I know that for me, I have--
I-- It's easier for me to not

feel offended, it's easier
for me to feel safe to dialog,

when people also speak
from that same place,

where we use "I" statements.

-But if we feel safe, that
might mean we're holding back.

Because when I don't feel safe
is when I often am being torn up

and being re-exposed to
a new version of Pam.

-I feel like I'm
the role of anger,

and I have a hard time hearing
anyone else because I'm furious

inside.

-[man] Why?

-I'm not sure if I
can pinpoint it,

and I want help with that.

-I suppose this group perhaps
has taken on a-- a new task,

a rogue task of, um, absolving
itself of its own atrocities.

I'm hearing to my left
there are no victims...

only volunteers?

Or participants.

It's an interesting thing to
say with as many people missing

today as there are.

-Yeah, I'd like to,
uh, pick up on that.

I think-- You seem to think I'm
labelling myself as a victim.

I think that's garbage.

I think if we don't acknowledge
what's contained in here --

whether you want to label that a
victim or not -- we're ignoring

the power that the group holds.

And so, the idea that there
is not a victim is ridiculous.

I don't feel that
this part of me is okay,

because the group has
told me that it's not okay.

-[woman] What part of you?

-[man] I'm not following
what you're saying, sorry.

-[woman] I'm not following
anything anybody's saying.

-I want to-- I want to
understand what part of you

you're referring to.

-You're not
articulating what you're--

-Gentle.
Gentle.

Gentle.
Gentle.

-Exactly!

The part of me
that's not gentle,

is not okay.

-I'm saying be gentle so that
you can experience-- you can--

be gentle on you, so you
can-- I'm saying to everyone,

"Don't attack this person.

Don't attack Leah."

Because I want to hear
what you have to say,

so that you can-- and
you're saying that.

-I think that we refuse to
acknowledge the power that a

group holds, what we
do with that power,

why we can't seem to take
ownership of the way that we

impact each other, and the parts
of each other that we completely

kill off to the point where
people can't enter this room...

or the parts of us that don't
feel acceptable to bring into

here.

And we don't seem to
be able to look at.

We keep wanting to go
back to, "Well I did this,

I did this."

Right, but let's zoom out for a
second and look at what we're

all doing as a group.

-Do you-- Do you all see the
missing people as victims?

Or do you see them as sort of
wielding some power by their

absence?

-[Seth] I'm not sure because
I-- I don't know who they are,

and-- and I think they
represent something--

-It's the oldest woman and
an angry Black man, Seth.

-[Seth] I can't hear you.

-It's the oldest woman and
an angry Black man, Seth.

-[Seth] Interesting.
Very interesting.

-If you're speaking to whether
or not we can accept conscious--

what we're conscious of, and
what we're unconscious of.

-Yeah.

-So you're asking-- we
don't really know these people.

-[man] It's really important.

-We're-- We're
fighting over, like,

what's conscious, and can
we just stay at that level?

Oh gosh, should we
look at the unconscious?

No way.

And then when we even consider
that there is multiple meanings

to something, or that
there are fantasies around it,

we have meaning when we say "the
oldest woman and the angry Black

man," that--

-Absolutely.
-That's a meaning already.

And thank you for saying.

And so there are
multiple meanings,

and what are we attributing as
a group in here now that these

people are gone?

But what I think is
more interesting is,

what is she representing for me
that maybe I've loaded into her

that doesn't want
to be in this room?

And one thing is my emotion!

And I'm like still
fighting with it.

-Well, it wouldn't be
the first time that age,

race and gender were considered
pre-existing conditions.

-Hey, I like that.

-[man] And I resent the fact
that you refer to him as "the

angry Black man."

-Me too!

-[man] Like, he
wasn't angry at all.

He was talking...

-That was-- That was vicious.

-I didn't see-- I didn't
see Cleveland as-- as angry.

-Well, I think Cleveland was
angry at you because you kept on

saying something about--

-He wasn't even
angry at her, man.

-[woman] Yeah, he was!

He felt really patronized.

-So where's the anger--
where's the anger now?

Where's the anger now?

-You can just stop
because, you know,

I heard it from him, so
I don't have to guess.

I know exactly why
it was he was angry.

Because you kept on saying, uh,
something about white privilege,

then he felt offended.

He felt, like, "Well, no you
don't have a privilege because

I'm not underprivileged.

And you kept on
reiterating that many times,

and that pissed him off.

And, you know-- and I
think rightfully so.

-What I heard of the
conversation after that-- the

man was not angry at her, man.

-So, I'm starting to feel angry
now-- I'm starting to feel angry

now because the group is going
back to something that happened

yesterday with
somebody who is not here,

and so we're naming it, but
we're locating it in somebody

that is not here.

-It happened right now.
She made a characterization.

-And-- And-- Yes, she did-- And
she named it and put the anger

in somebody else, and so I
wonder if the anger is here.

-[woman] No.
I think she's right.

He said, "I know every time
I walk outside I could die."

Now if that's not a
statement that indicates anger,

I don't know what is.

That's a reality, and he
said, "I have to deal with it."

So, he said, "I
can't show my anger."

-I'm a-- I'm a-- I'm a-- I'm
a-- I'm a Black homeless man.

So, I know the
police can kick my ass,

put a bullet in the back of
my head at any given time.

But I-- I ain't
pissed off about that.

-[man] Are you angry now?
-No.

I-- I-- I-- I'm not-- What I--

-Are you angry with me?

-What I'm
saying-- Man, come on, man.

-Seriously, no-- no--

-What-- What I'm saying is, I
don't walk around as an angry

Black man.

-[man] Well, she didn't say
you were an angry Black man.

She said Cleveland
was an angry Black man.

-Well, okay.

-[woman] But he's
making a comparison.

-Yeah, man, he-- he-- he-- I
can-- I can do that because me

and him walk
through the same circles.

We ain't walking
around like that.

-These are the-- These are the
layers that we're like first

perceiving about
people, and like--

-What about you, Molly?
What about you?

I resent you saying "we."
What about you?

-[Molly] I'm sorry.
I didn't--

-Can I throw something in there?

You are facing the
back of a Black man,

talking about somebody
who's not in the room.

This Black man has a
certain authority.

I don't-- I don't-- I'm really
bad with names so I forget even

the consultants
name, and your name.

-Raymond.

-But what of what you were
saying was being directed to a

surrogate to the consultant?

-You know, we have a cop and
a Black man in the room here.

And I'm not sure, but I'm sure
there's a dimension about Kat

that if I knew a little bit
more-- But that's-- that's a--

that's a pretty heavy under...

And we're talking about a guy
here -- a Black man -- talking

about being shot by a cop.

-[woman] Mm-hm.

-Okay so, there's a-- there's
some provocative imagery in this

room.

-[man] And let's not forget
that it's not what you say.

You might say something
right, but it's how you say it,

right?

And I mean, I was riding my
bike today in the morning,

right, and thinking-- and
thinking about the privilege.

And I thought, "Of
course privilege."

But let's say-- let's
say you're good-looking,

and you come to someone
who's not as good-looking.

And you say, "I'm so sorry that
you're not as good looking as

me."

[laughter]

And you say, "Oh, I
have a very high IQ,"

and somebody else
says, not as high IQ.

And I say, "I'm so
sorry that I'm stupid," right?

So, it doesn't help those people
to say it that way, right?

What helps-- What helps is--

-[woman] Does it not
make it the truth, though?

-[man] The truth is a
little bit different.

It's not the truth.

-[woman] It's patronizing.
-It builds walls.

It builds walls and it maintains
and keeps them walls up.

-It's burdening-- it's burdening
that person with your guilt.

It's actually just adding to
the anxiety of their role.

I-- I-- I just
think it's patronizing.

And I think that's how the
gentlemen who's being described

as "the angry Black
man" felt patronized.

-I want to nominate Anna as the
group leader because she's the

brightest tack in the toolbox.

I mean everything that you
say is-- is understandable.

Whereas everyone else
is speaking in code.

-Beautiful.

-Uh, yeah.

-And you over here, I mean,
you keep saying something,

but you're not saying it.

-Well, I know this,
and it's not in code...

And what I know is that if we'll
kill off the oldest woman in

this group, I -- as one of
the oldest men in this group --

can't be far behind.

And that's scary to me.

-[woman] Is that?
-I have it-- I'm sorry, I'm--

-Go ahead, please.
Please, stop, please.

-I'm so tired, right?

Like, I'm listening to
everybody talk about things.

And I-- I-- Maybe
it's the morning.

I'm not a morning person.

I'm like super tired.

So, in the case of Cleveland...

Okay, I spoke with
Cleveland after the conference.

He actually walked me
home, which was really sweet.

Um, he's an artist.

And he has to
choose, "Do I sit here,

um-- Do I sit here and have
people ascribe to me something?

Or do I work on my art and try
to-- and try to change something

that I can change?"

And that's his choice, right?

Like, he can choose
to be here or not.

But we have a choice whether
to ascribe these motivations to

him, and I don't
think that's fair.

-I would like to own a
little of my shit at the moment.

If that's-- that's
what I'm interested in,

um, and I forgot your name...

-[MIsha] Um, Misha.
-Um, Misha, behind you, sorry...

-[Mark] Mark.
-Mark.

And I think I
unconsciously wanted to,

like, obliterate you.

And um, I know I
have in this group.

I know I've
talked right over you,

consciously.

I chose it.

And it comes from
some of my anger.

It comes from me feeling like,
[crying] if I don't fight my way

to the top here, if I don't
fight my way to being heard,

I'm not gonna be heard.

And so, I was
willing to sacrifice you,

because I also feel I've
been sacrificed in ways.

And so, as a
person, Mark, I'm sorry.

But as this unconscious group
stuff I-- I know I'm feeding

something, like, I've been
playing that out all weekend.

-[Mark] Why?
I'm not sure I understand.

-Not with just you but
with other white men.

-It's-- It's a white man thing?

-I think it's a white
man thing with-- I mean,

I can only speak to me,
um-- being Chinese American,

it is-- I have felt a
lot of being silenced.

And I don't think that I'm the
only minority recently who's

felt that.

-[Mark] Did I say something?

-And so, I think
that-- Yeah, in a second,

if it's okay.

Uh, I think that I'm holding
that for more than one-- for

more than myself here.

And I'm willing to
hold that at the moment,

but I'd like to put that out
there to the group to actually

take it up.

And I would like to
hear your response, too.

-Well, I don't know
that I have a response, exactly.

I don't-- I don't think
in those terms myself.

I mean, I guess this
goes back to privilege--

-[man] Will you talk up?
I can't hear you.

-I think this comes back
to the privilege business.

I'm-- as a white male,
I'm-- I'm a white male.

So, to whatever extent people
feel that's somehow a privileged

position, I'm in the middle of
it and I don't really see it

that much.

I mean, I certainly feel...

um...

I feel privileged in
a more general sense,

that I've had lots of good
fortune and that kind of thing.

And I'm comfortable
in a lot of ways, um...

But I-- my question is did--
did I say something-- Have-- Has

something I said
to you personally,

or something that I've-- some
way that I've said something in

the group setting...

uh, triggered that?

Or-- or brought up
some association, or...?

-It's easy when
someone has privilege,

like white male,
to just say, "Oh,

I don't have to feel that, or
I'm not going to feel that."

And we all do it to
protect ourselves.

And yet, I think it's helpful
for this group to process who's

doing that and why.

Not in a blaming way,
but in a way that says,

"Oh, let me take that up," or,
"Can I consider taking my own

piece of my anger at
this Black male consultant,

or whoever--

-[woman] I have-- I
have a question--

-Can I just finish real quick?

Um, but I think that as
a-- as an Asian female...

I have often sat in the silence
and also-- also contained a lot

of emotion.

And if you look at, like, the
history of how this country was

built, and Chinese
people built the railroads,

[crying] and other Asians--

-[woman] And Blacks.

-[crying] And Black,
yes, and other people,

and didn't...

maybe get acknowledged for that,
and given privilege for that.

And, so it, in a way it's
like symbolic of having to do--

[applause]

Of having to do
that register, too,

but having to do a lot of work,
and maybe other people's work.

So other people can enjoy the
freedom of riding this railroad

really nicely.

-I-- I'm kind of-- I
admit, I'm struggling.

I'm resenting this kind of role
of martyr that you seem to be

wanting to fulfill.

And-- And I'm having a hard
time empathizing because I'm

ascribing that role to you.

And I-- And I actually resented
that-- that you were put in a

position where you kind of had
your tail between your legs and

had to apologize.

And I don't think you've really
acted out of tactlessness.

-[woman] I don't think
I've done that to him.

-No, no.
That's how--

-[woman] I don't-- I
don't see you as a martyr.

I see her as a very
strong Asian woman.

'Cause in this country the
dialog is often Black versus

white.

And so, other minorities
get lost in the dialog.

-[man] Crushed.

-And as an Asian
woman she's saying,

"You're not going to silence me.

I keep silent, and I'm
not doing it anymore."

So, I don't see her
as any kind of martyr.

I see her as a
strong woman, personally.

That's how I'm experiencing her.

-So I-- I staged that as,
"I'm struggling with-- with

projecting that role onto her."

And it's-- it's-- it's--
that's my own struggle, right?

It's-- That's how I meant
to-- That this is a-- this is an

internal conflict where I'm
unable to kind of access her

headspace because I'm projecting
a certain role onto her.

-But I also think that there's
something to be said about me

being maybe one of two -- I
don't know -- Asian females in

here.

And there are two on staff, but
that-- I think that there's some

validity to the group level
of what I'm saying with both.

-And my consultation on
this is-- my suspicion is,

that this is-- a lot of other
people in the room are sitting

here going, "Thank God she's
doing the vulnerability piece.

I don't want to do the
vulnerability piece."

And I would suspect it's
fairly common among white males.

-But I wanna-- I wanna link-- I
wanna link a little bit in terms

of what you were saying,
and it may be a little heady,

but the thing that
you've represented for me,

which I feel is being enacted,
is you're one of the only

experienced people being
in similar conferences.

And I feel I'm in
that minority as well.

And I think that the group
dynamic knows that on a certain

level.

And so, there's
going to be, I think,

a real struggle about displacing
either you or I from the

standpoint of having some
comfort with this kind of model.

And in my head,
we're true believers,

if you will.

That creates some issues for us.

-I just want to say one thing:
Irish died on the railroads,

too.

-Yes, thank you.

-So, I'm going to say that I was
sexually abused by a Black male

babysitter at the age of three.

So--

-[Francis] Right, you
get to be a victim, or not.

And you're not.

-[woman] Fuck you, Francis.

-[woman] He was a victim.

-So can you let him--
can you let him finish, please?

-[woman] He was three years old.

-So, I was a victim
at the age of three.

And I've worked very hard
for the last-- I'm 47 now.

I was a drug
addict, an alcoholic,

among other
addictions for-- and,

uh, I got sober at the age
of 32 after lots of pain,

lots of
self-sabotage all of my life,

involving, um,
terrible depressions.

When I finally got some recovery
from this and got sober,

and started addressing the
feelings that I-- I continue to

feel.

Um...

uh...

And I don't feel
like a victim anymore.

I do feel like it's been a
lot of work to feel empowered,

and to own my power.

And, uh, so I'm feeling
gratitude-- I feel a lot of

gratitude.

You will see me cry a lot, and
I just feel a lot of gratitude

now, but it hasn't always been
like that, there's been a lot of

resentment, a lot of work that
I've had to do in order to learn

how to own my voice.

So, um, that I think
unconsciously plays out here.

I-- I didn't even
think about it, honestly.

I don't think about it.

Um, but-- And it's really not
something that I-- I mean I've

actually had the flashback.

I've gone through
the screaming, which,

um, I can actually do now, uh...

Um, I don't know.

I'm happy to do it, but
I'm not going to do it.

Well, I could do it.

-[woman] Yeah.
Go for it.

-I'm beginning to see a bit
of evidence of what-- what the

anger has been all about.

The anger has
been all about, uh,

keeping this group away
from its vulnerabilities,

keeping this group away from the
things about each of you that

makes you feel like
you're in the minority.

I experience that.

-[woman] Um, I...

I am wondering about...

Oh!
[laughs]

Yeah, so, I-- I
guess I'm-- Yeah,

I'm just wondering about how
people are being assigned as--

Like, there was a conversation
here about you representing a

white man...

[crackling sound]

[indistinct chatter]

-[woman] Are you going to usurp?

[laughter]

-Do it.
Do it.

-Oh my god, I just
got invited to do it.

-[laughs] I-- It was-- it
was a question more than an

invitation.

-Was that a fantasy or
a wish that I would?

-Yeah, sort of.

I think-- I think it would
be fun to see what happens.

[laughs]

-Wow.

[laughter]

I feel terrified of it.

-Just be-- be aware
of your "fuck you."

-Of owning my anger?

-No, I'm saying that's-- and
I'm-- I mean I-- that's why I

had to take this seat.

-[laughs]

-No interest in usurping.

[laughter]

-So I'm-- in me I'm
getting the message don't...

-Oh, no, no, no.

Not it.

Don't take cues from me.

You do you.

-It was interesting, I was gonna
decide whether or not to take up

that-- where I was going to sit.

I was thinking about this.

Do I stay over there?

Or do I, uh, sit back?

Apparently, I'm like sort of
being invited by more people to

do it.

-[laughs]

-That is where I
was going to sit,

and then the invitation to--

-See, I only went-- I
only went one layer in.

Maybe by tomorrow.

[laughter]

[indistinct chatter]

-I didn't want to
be here either.

I didn't want to be
here but then I chose it.

[indistinct chatter]

-Yeah, I didn't want
to be here either.

Then I saw it and was
like, "I'm going to take it."

Bummer.

Bad choice.

-Is that all right?

-Maybe not.

Not the choice I
thought I was gonna make,

I guess.

-I'm-- I'm not
taking it personally.

I'm not taking it personal.

[indistinct chatter]

-I-- I-- I am fully
aware that I am cowering.

-Yeah, no, I know.

[indistinct chatter]

-I feel it's like a really
pleasant connection that we

have, and its...

-It's okay.

It's okay! [laughs]

-But it's not like I'm
trying to steal your seat.

It's just that it's personal.

-No, it's-- I
just don't like you, is why.

[laughs]

-Do we have one empty chair
because Cleveland's missing?

-So, what, we've like totally
separated these two groups?

-[laughs]

-I feel like something has
happened that has cozied up the

space.

-Wait,
something's like cozied up?

[indistinct chatter]

-I know you have lawyer
jokes, a lot of strange jokes.

-Something like that.

-Like the physical...

-Unfortunately, I don't
even want to read it...

Lawyer jokes...

-Probably.

-Just cut out the corners.

-Yeah, is that it?

-Yeah, I think the
room changed again.

-Oh, the room changed.

-[woman] How has it changed?
-[woman] Physically?

-Well, I was invited--

-Oh, I meant the structural
room I don't think has changed.

-[woman] How do you
think the room changed, though?

-Well, I would imagine
that a dynamic changed.

-[woman] Somebody else
sitting at the end of the,

uh, spiral...

-Somebody else-- Yeah, I was
invited to it-- I wasn't going

to--

-[man] But you deserve it.

-[woman] And somebody else is
sitting outside the spiral.

-And so I want to also effect
the role of the consultants,

this, um....

-[man] That feels
smaller already.

-It takes them out of the loop,
if they're not going to speak

up.

-I'm-- I'm
reminded of a-- a joke.

The joke was a guy who
had a-- a bitch in heat,

and he took her on a fox
hunt, and the dogs went running.

And he couldn't find the dogs.

And finally someone--
someone pointed out to him.

And he said, "Oh
yeah, we saw the dog.

Uh, the dog's running that way,
and the fox was running third."

[laughter]

-God, I'm not sure
I'm qualified to lead.

-I'm glad you didn't say,
"This is a really funny joke."

-I'm loaded up by the story
that occurred prior to this,

in the second-- uh,
in the second group,

where they don't
sit down immediately,

and it becomes a point where
they get to talk about how the

authority gets usurped.

It gets evicted, um--

-[man] [coughs] Sorry.

-How we revolt against-- I can
totally feel like these are not

my words coming out of me.

Um, like I'm speaking-- I do
believe I'm speaking for some

part of the group.

Um, and, uh,
speaking for myself,

I'm not sure that I was
elected by the entire group.

And I'm also not sure how much
of my will is involved in being

here, or if I
surrendered to this,

to being in this,
um, the symbolic.

And I don't want to
keep talking about it.

-[man] There was an election?

[laughter]

-You missed it.

-No, man, you been planning to
get up on that seat from day

one.

-[man] Your theater
is for everybody?

-Pardon me?

-[man] Do you have
something to say to everybody?

-Uh, um, I just
said that that's been,

um, his plan from day one.

-[man] Maybe unconsciously.

-I mean-- I mean-- I mean
that's just my take on it.

That's-- That's been his plan,
and my man's plan to sit next to

him, from day one.

You know to-- to drive them,
and-- and-- and turn and twist

the group in a direction
they feel it needs to go.

-Well, maybe my
motivation has changed,

in terms of my
choosing to sit here,

in anticipation that Mr.
Lewis would sit there.

As it worked out,
he's seated to my left,

and I'm much more interested in
joining rather than overtaking.

-I find a lot of joy
in the idea that-- So,

I suggested-- [chuckles] Sorry,
I can't remember your name.

-Brad.

-Brad sit there, and it was
sort of a question should I or

shouldn't I?

And I feel complicit in, um,
encouraging him to sit there.

But I think it's-- it's
also like a playfulness,

trying to see what happens
when we shift the power.

-[woman] Is the power,
like, in the chair, though?

-Well, no.

I-- but it is-- it is...

if it's not the
metaphorical power,

it's the spatial distribution.

-I'd like the group to
consider that-- that he's not

the only white man to have
changed physical position in

this group.

-[man] Yeah, but both of them
are the only two white men which

they tried to be known
early on, the very first group,

that that was their plan.

At least my man
with the glasses,

because he said he
was in competition.

He feels like
he's competing here.

That he need to win, and all
that.That's the first thing that

come up out of his mouth.

So, the plan was
there from day one.

-[man] All of the
consultants have been moved.

In fact, the female consultant's
been moved the farthest.

-[woman] And there's a
new person behind you.

-Oh my goodness, an observer.

But the observer,
the leader observer.

The hidden power.

-[woman] He
instigated this whole thing.

-We have to sit somewhere.

[laughter]

You can say, well,
you picked this place.

But you have to pick
some place, right?

And if you want to try to
get to why I picked it,

uh, there's layers, I
won't get into this but--

-Your invitation here-- and
excuse me-- your invitation here

is to understand what's
going on here in front of you,

how you participated in it, and
what impact it has on you and

your anxieties --
if you have them.

If you don't...

your task is to try to
understand how you participated

in this configuration
and what it means to you,

and how you will do
your work or not.

-[man] I'm gonna
still do my work.

Regardless of who's sitting
in the head head head chair.

I will do what I've
been called to do.

-But you make an
important, uh, comment,

and that is that it
was stated up front.

So, this is--
there was-- you know,

what was told to us.

So, in that sense we had-- we
played a part in it because

nobody operated to say no.

-I mean, you know,
like, what you just said,

I think, you know, every-- or,
I think that the majority of

persons came in just picking
a chair with no hidden motive

behind it.

-[man] Power motive.
-Power motive behind it.

But my man, clearly, I mean
that's the first thing that come

out of his mouth that it was
his goal to make a power move.

[laughs] You know, so-- so--

-[man] But he's also saying
right now he thinks that it's

changed.

So-- So, do we believe him,
or do we kind of assume...

-Well, I feel I-- I give
him the benefit of the doubt.

But, I mean, he's
still-- he talking different,

but still the
emotions is still the same.

[laughter]

-[woman] The reality is there.
-[man] Yeah, yeah.

-I think there is a--
There are two chairs.

One represents real power, and
one symbolic power, right?

So, that chair
really has no power.

I mean, just a chair, right?

Well, you know what
the other chair is,

and it's as far from
the center as possible.

There's no further spot from the
chair that real power occupies.

So how do you guys
reflect on that?

-[man] I think the real
power is in the group,

not in the leader.

It always has been in the
group, not in the leader.

I mean now, the leader has
his-- has his purpose--

-Is there a leader?
-Um, yeah.

Yes.

-See my hypothesis is that
what's going on here is,

um...

the voyeurism in the room is
scaring the shit out of the

group.

-[man] The who?
-The voyeurism.

-[man] What do you mean by that?

Please-- Look, please use
a word I can understand.

-So-- So, very early in the
first group there was a lot

around killing us off.

And I was reflected on why
you would want to kill us off.

And in part because we are the
representatives of that which is

having you watched.

And that's why I think there's a
dance here at the moment that's,

even in the third session, still
really very superficial because

I think being watched
is really, really scary.

I think everywhere
we-- and not I think,

I know, everywhere we go
in the city we're watched.

What are you talking about?
Everywhere.

-There's nowhere you can go
where you're not watched...

on video.

-[man] Well, I can work
with that consultation.

But I-- I mean, one of the
things I think that stimulates

my anxiety about living in what
I understand to be the security

state.

You're right, we are
watched everywhere--

-So why is this any different?

-So you know, what--
what-- what I say on film,

will be digitized and it
will be out there forever.

So, I have to choose
my words carefully.

And it-- I-- I resonate with
the idea that it's voyeuristic.

It's easier to be way up
here about dealing with stuff,

because when I get down
here on the emotional level,

I'm really exposing something.

And I'm not sure that I can
be safe in that exposure.

-But I think-- okay, something
interesting that I'm-- I'm

coming to is, for me
it's like I'm being taped,

um...

there's the potential
for myself to come into,

like, to see this
again, you know?

Like, I'm going to
have to face my behavior,

and I'm accountable to myself
now for what I've said and how

I've behaved.

I'm uncomfortable
with the cameras.

I'm uncomfortable
even more now that,

like, Leigh's in the room.

I feel even more, um,
like, self-conscious,

but then I'm also realizing
that my self-consciousness,

like, roots back to, um...

like, maybe my concerns
or opinions of myself.

And also, like, the
desire, I keep saying,

but, like, the desire to,
like, understand somebody else's

desire.
Um...

-So, there's been a-- an
agreement that Leigh was always

going to be watching us --
that's on the film -- but the

difference today, now, is he's
watching us in the here and now.

He's in our space now.

He's in the here and now.

-[man] So what?

-Me being watched --
yeah -- it makes me scared, too.

Okay, you know?

It makes me anxious, too, but
what I do with that anxiousness,

or what I do with
that fear or worry,

it just makes me more
determined to get the job done,

either in front of the camera
or outside of the camera, okay?

And-- And how I'm relating it, I
don't know-- I don't know if--

Well, you have, as far as a
drug-- a drug conspiracy --

that's the word
that I'm looking for.

You know, how police they
just ride around and--

-Are you talking
to me, or to him?

-No, I'm-- I'm
talking to-- to the lawyer.

You ain't no lawyer -- you.

[laughter]

-Let me get my suit,
I'll be right back.

-Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, but-- but I mean--
I mean-- but they walk around,

and they film a lot of hand
to hand drug transactions.

Now, some drug dealers
they shut down and they run.

Some drug dealers-- Man, so
I got to-- I got to feed my

family.

I got to feed my family,
and they say "F" the camera,

and they keep It going, even
though that fear is still there.

Okay, so now my here and now,
I ain't saying that I'm not

concerned about it,
or worried about it,

but not to the point where
it's going to shut me down.

Not to the point where it's
going to stop me from doing the

job that I've been called to do.

-I would like to say my
reactions to the camera has been

a little bit different, and a
little bit different than the

consultants have suggested.

I didn't really feel the
presence of the cameras at all

on the first day, and I am
really feeling them now,

and I think it's because over
the course of this conference,

I cracked myself open and I
have become more vulnerable,

and the presence of the cameras
are much more obvious to me and

have been as I've
been opening up.

-[woman] I'm just wondering
what's at stake, you know?

Like we're talking about the
relationship to the camera,

um, and being more--
like, being more vulnerable,

um, and opening up
more makes it-- like,

makes you feel
more aware of them,

and it's, like, because there's
something at stake, right?

-[man] Freedom for me.

-[woman] Yeah, I
have more-- you know,

I'm not-- I'm not-- I've let
myself go a little bit out of my

comfort zone.

I feel like I've pushed
myself more into the group.

And-- And that makes me-- like,
there's a camera facing me right

now and I'm very aware of that,
but if I were sitting back...

just, you know,
observing the group,

the camera itself
would also fade back,

or if I felt like
there was less, um...

uh, like everybody's
looking at me now,

and then the cameras
are looking at me,

but whereas I feel
when we talked earlier,

we were talking over each
other and at each other,

and at people--
everybody's listening more now.

And-- And, uh, that makes
everything else more present.

-[man] To answer
your question: freedom.

Freedom -- that's
what's at stake for me.

When you're talking about me and
my here and now -- freedom --

that's what's on the line.

-[man] So we had a process going
that involved the membership

dealing with the consultants.

Now, there's an extra factor
that wasn't predicted here.

We have two observers now -- one
missing observer -- and we have

Leigh here.

And Leigh is-- was
not, as far as I can see,

was not in the agreement
that was made at the beginning.

He said there would
be three observers.

Now you could give
special permission to Leigh,

but the other thing is that
our job is to work with the

consultants and
our process here,

and not be distracted
by, uh, manipulations.

Because this feels like
a manipulation to me.

-[woman] See, I think-- I-- I
feel that at some points the

consultants have manipulated
our conversation, so--

-[man] Yes.
Yes.

-Yeah, I-- I-- I sort of--
Do I think that cameras are

manipulating us?

Yeah, but not to
the same extent.

They're not interjecting.

-[man] I'm not
talking about the cameras.

I'm talking about Leigh.

-Oh.

-[man] I've got a little bit
different perspective on that.

And my perspective
is that, you know,

we're trying to understand the
projections that are in this

room.

And our fear of
voyeurism, I think,

is a barrier to our
examination of that.

Um, I think it's harder for
us to get into the dynamics of

what's happening in the here
and now between us and our

relationship with
the consultants.

Um, so, I-- I do think that
there is-- there is a wall here,

at least for me, that I'm
having difficulty vaulting,

circumventing, getting around.

-You know, Seth, it doesn't add
up for me -- I apologize -- with

this idea of voyeurism, and
that's why I'm not-- I-- I-- it

doesn't resonate -- is that
voyeurism implies that there's--

there's no, you know,
that there's no permission.

And-- And I wonder, there was a
lot of conversation about drugs

and drug dealing, and I wonder
what drug are we all sharing

here, what are we on.

And to me, I mean, what I'm in
touch with is it's vanity and

narcissism.

You know, when Frank
talked about fear of cameras,

the flip-side of it
is, "Oh, you know,

somebody's going
to be watching me."

It's this excitement.

And how much of it, you know,
I am not owning for myself.

And how much of it-- you
know, we're talking about,

"Oh we're so scared."

We're all here, we
signed up for it,

and this is-- this is going to
stand where nobody's leaving.

-We're powerless over our
narcissism and our lives have

become unmanageable.

-[woman[ Uh-huh.

-I find that very helpful, but
I-- I want-- I want to give all

of you more credit for
being a lot sneakier than that.

Because all I'm hearing-- all
I'm hearing-- especially this

group, but there's
been rumor of it,

is that the cameras, and
the people manning them,

and womaning them, uh, are
the only ones in here watching.

-[woman] Um, I kind of
enjoy being watched.

But what happens is
that there's a very,

uh, stark reality about how we
expose ourselves in here and

what's the potential fallout
when we go back to our jobs and

our families.

And so for me, it-- it
makes me question about myself,

what am I not dealing
with, what am I hiding,

um, as far as something that I
don't want anybody to see that's

part of me, and I'm so
afraid that it's going to be

immortalized, um, digitally.

And I mean, like, I really
don't have anything like that,

per say -- nothing that I've
like become aware of -- and so

I'm just curious, um,
because I do understand that,

you know, some people
are not as comfortable,

um, in a group setting
and things of that nature.

But I'm-- I'm really curious
if anybody would be willing to

share what is this
great fear about.

-I-- I could not have provided
very much data before this group

to support that anyone had seen
me in here until a woman with a

very similar skin tone
as mine supplanted me...

in my seat, and I am
aware of the assault,

and I'm also flattered.

-[woman] The assault?

-I disagree that, you know,
without the cameras we're a

little more candid.

I don't agree with that.

We were really a
lot more candid.

I mean, really.

Things came out in our
small group where there were no

cameras that I would never
-- and anybody else in there,

I think -- would never
talk about on camera.

-[woman] Oh, I agree.
That's what I said.

-Possible that there might be
some shame about roles?

-[man] Naw, I don't
know, I don't know.

-[woman] Well, we set
it up, in our group.

-Hey, okay, so, um...

-[woman] We dared each
other to trust each other.

-She's still talking.
She's still talking.

-We dared each other to
trust each other in our group.

And we did that by saying
something that took trust to

share.

So, shame possibly, yeah,
because that was part of the

point with what we wanted to do
to play with the idea of trust.

And how could we get at trust?

How could we find a
definition of trust?

-[man] I don't
think it is shame.

I don't think I wouldn't say
it because I'm ashamed of it at

all.

I just think it would be really
inappropriate to give it to

people to play with.

Unless I knew them
and trusted them.

-[woman] That's what shame is.

-What is it?
-[woman] What you're saying.

-[man]I know.
What did I say it isn't?

-[woman] That you don't
want to give it to them.

Because if it won't hold power
over you if they have it and you

don't feel shame about
it, who gives a fuck?

-I don't trust it.

I don't trust that they
would take the power and use it

appropriately.

That's what I'm saying.

I trust the people
in our group would.

-[woman] Like, what's your
fantasy about what would happen

if it did come out?

-If it did come out?
-[woman] Yeah, what'd you--

-I'm not going to buy
into that-- that's silly.

I mean, if I tell you that,
then I'm telling you what I'm

embarrassed about, right?

-Yeah!

That's what I'm
asking you about.

-[man] I know.

I'm too dumb of a
cat to be tricked.

-I'm not trying to trick you.

I'm trying to develop a
conversation about what's scary

here.

-[man] I'm not going to answer.
I'm not going to answer that.

-[woman] So, yes,
there's shame there.

-[man] She wants to say
something back there.

-I just wanted you to elaborate
more on this so-called assault

that took place because
it came out very negative.

So, especially since I came in
here every single group session

and sat somewhere
different, by random choice.

-[man] Well, it's also possible
to consider the fact that,

I'm not exactly sure, but it
looks like the other consultant

was moved by a police office.

Is that correct?
Is that, uh--

-[woman] No, he sat back there.

-No, no, no he didn't.

-No, he sat right there.

-He used to be a
police officer too, you know?

-I know, that's what I'm saying.

-Who cares?

-One police officer
replaced another police officer.

One Hispanic
woman -- or whatever.

-I'm not Hispanic.

-Uh, replaced
another, uh, well--

-How about people?
How about just regular people?

[indistinct chatter]

-No, but I--
honestly, I want to know.

I'm curious to know.

-[man] She's talking.

Why are you cutting her off?

-I'm sorry.

I'm just trying to
get pretty much,

some more information from her.

-[man] Who's trying to
finish her sentence?

-[woman] [laughing] Of course,
she's not going to give you more

information.

-I think-- why?
But why not?

-Big step.
Leigh left.

-[man] Who cares?

-And look-- And look-- it looks
like she gonna say something.

-I think everyone's really--

-[woman] Somebody is trying to
talk back here and we're just

not giving her the chance.

-[man] That's true.
-[woman] She's answering.

You asked a question.

She's thinking and answering,
and I'm watching her face and

everybody keeps talking.

So, let's be a little...

polite maybe?

-[man] Cross-talk...killing it.

-[man] Hey Ray, I'm
getting loaded up.

And I'm getting loaded up around
the issue-- Or I'm getting

loaded up and I
just want to say, um...

get these fucking
cameras out of here.

-[man] Why?

-Get these fucking
cameras out of here.

And my sense is-- my-- my sense
is that that's-- that I'm doing

that for the group.

So, I just mention that to
you, my-- my fellow consultant.

-[man] You ain't
doing it for me.

-I wanna-- There's a couple
things I want to try to link

to--

-Let her finish.

-Bullshit!

I mean if she can
speak up for herself.

-She was, until you cut her off.

-What are you, the arbitrator?

-You started at
the same time--

-[man] Yes, she started.

-There's no need for this.

-[man] Yeah, let's just kill
the experiment, please.

-I'm struggling with-- with--
with this vacillating experience

that I'm having here, and I'm--
I'm keenly aware that it having

to do with projections that's
coming through all kinds of

areas of this room.

I'm not so sure
it's not voyeuristic.

I'm not so sure it's not...

I feel like parts of you are
trying to join inside of me.

Some of you are trying to
pull yourselves inside of me.

Some of you are trying to
get me out of the room.

Some of you are trying to put me
back in the place that you had

me.

And I'm just not sure what--
what to make of that and how to

make sense of it.

Uh, my colleague...

made a request that
the cameras be removed.

To me, quite frankly.

There's a
tremendous amount of anger.

These-- This is all data points
that I'm trying to speak to...

to try and understand where your
anger and frustration is coming

from.

And I suspect that it's coming
from the fact that some of you

wanted to displace me.

Some of you felt
like you lost me.

Some of when you lose me,
you lose the consultant team.

And therefore, you're
angry as hell about it,

and don't know what to do about
it In front of the cameras.

-I'm skeptical that that's
not a gesture to undermine the

artistic side of
this conference.

And I'm-- I'm not sure if
that's misplaced skepticism.

But I'm-- I'm sensing this power
struggle between preserving the

sanctity of the art and the
sanctity of the conference.

And I'm wondering what is
actually beneficial for the

whole, and if only the
members can really understand or

navigate that if it can
come from the consultant.

-I'm-- I'm just concerned that
she never got to answer this

question.

Um, and so we've shifted
the discussion back to the

consultants, and,
um, I'm not sure why.

-Because they--
Because they saved her.

Every time she was
gonna start answering,

one of them-- one of
the other consultants.

-Well, the observation that
may have been made is that many

women attempted to
make-- make room for me,

and I think four men in a
row jumped in to share.

And it was a
mixture of motivations,

I'm sure.

I am very-- also keenly aware
that to be seen in this room is

a crime.

And to want to be
seen is a greater crime.

And to dare to stand
out feels so sinful.

And I-- I'm not
going to buy into it.

-I really appreciate that, um...

in that, um..

it's not my desire to...

I feel sad that, uh--
to think that I would...

that I would, uh, be replacing--
trying to replace somebody that

could be helpful to us...

to me.

-Speak up.
-[man] You done it already, man.

[laughs]

-I don't think I have.

I don't think that I have, um...

And, um,
certainly the being seen,

my motivation for doing
this, for sitting here,

was more out of-- like, I didn't
want to feel shame for not

owning my power -- the power
to show up in whatever way...

To show up, and show
up and own full power.

I'm sitting in a chair.

I am in the center.

-But the evidence that-- that
was stated earlier -- that some

people don't want to be seen,
feel like it's a crime to be

seen -- other people wanted
to be seen in that seat--

-Ah, yes.

-But they chose not to be, and
they put you there -- or this

group managed to get you there
-- but there are other people

wanted to be seen in that seat.

-[woman] Brad, earlier, um...

you made the tie to
your personal history.

-[Brad] Okay.

-You know, your
issue with a Black man.

So, I think in some sense--
I don't know if the group

is allowing you to own that, and
that-- and that's a possibility.

But I also understand that
symbolically it means something

for you.

It's-- You're taking
power away from-- This is my

interpretation.

This is how I'm experiencing
it -- that you're taking power

symbolically away from
something that hurt you.

[crackling noise]

-I just want to declare that
I'm not one of your everyone.

You described everyone, and
everything you said did not

apply to me.

-[woman] So did you not also
sign a contract that stated that

you would be in
front of a camera?

-I signed a contract.

-[Anna] So where's the--
where's the difference there?

-Well, I signed a contract to
come here as an opportunity to

advertise Group Relations work.

So, Group Relations work is
going to be advertised in a

piece of art.

And it's also going to be used
as a training tool for other

consultants.

So, that's what I did.

I was aware that I did
it, and there you go.

So, I'm not everyone.

I'm-- I'm here and I agreed
with the whole process because I

thought it through.

Now, if you didn't
think it through--

-I said it earlier, everybody's
on-- everybody's performing --

everyone here, whether
they're conscience or not.

-I'm not saying that
I'm not performing.

I'm not saying that
I'm not performing.

I'm saying that we are
advertising Group Relations

work.

If we have to
perform to do that, fine.

But we're-- we're
branding Group Relations work,

which has not been branded.

-But your adamant response
is almost just reinforcing my

understanding.

-[man] Would you
please explain that to me.

-I am having a
little trouble, um,

kind of conceptualizing how
this piece of art is going to be

found legitimate.
Who decides that?

Who-- Who has a say and--

-You signed a
contract, you know who is.

-I would like to-- in answer
to your question of who-- who

decides what a work of art is?

That has been a question not
just for this project but for

art for a very long time -- at
least for the last 150 years --

what makes-- what
makes art "Art,"

when you take it
outside of the church,

and outside of royalty, and--
What-- What is art once you take

away-- once you have a camera?

So, it's not just a
problem with this piece.

It's a problem
with all art, now,

and has been for a long time.

But I'd like to
bring up another point.

I don't know if anyone notices,
but it was shortly after Leigh

left that Frank brought up
his problem with the camera.

So, it wasn't when Leigh
was still in the room,

but it was after Leigh left.

-[man] I don't think he brought
up a problem with the camera.

I think he said, he's
speaking for the group,

and said to get the
fucking cameras out.

-[woman] I feel very shut down.

But I think it's
scary to feel here,

and I've been dizzy, and I think
a lot of the conversation has

been up here in the head.

-[Kat] Yeah, I
mean, let's be specific.

Scary to feel what in here?

-[Leah] Scary to feel lonely.

Um, it's scary to feel...

to feel unaccepted
or unacceptable,

just in my pure existence.

Um, it's scary...

It's scary to feel...

to feel, um, disregarded...

and to feel that others
aren't speaking to-- to their

understanding of me.

And so that-- And to feel that I
only have my projections to work

with and I can't use
everyone's projections.

It's scary to
feel sectioned off.

-[Brad] Yeah, definitely
scary to feel sectioned off.

I have not been
owning my voice today,

which is
continuing to be my work.

I feel like it was an act
of ego to sit in this chair,

on some level.

I go back and forth.

It's like shame--
shameful to be.

Just to show up and be.

And uh, and then I have anger
when I beat up on myself around

whatever, and then the shutting
down happens and all that.

And then I'm left with,
uh, having to reconnect.

And um...

And I really, uh-- I
didn't want to come.

I did not want to come.

I was angry that I was
making the decision to come.

I felt coerced on
coming here on some level.

So--

-I-- I have a-- a
sense of terror.

And I link this to Steven's
comment of me as a terrorist.

-[Steven] I didn't call you
no terrierist-- terrorist, man.

-I'm-- That's my understanding.

-[Steven] No, no,
don't put words-- Okay.

-Well, uh-- and--

-[Steven] I didn't put
no words in your mouth.

I said what you
said, quote, unquote.

I didn't call you
no terrorist, man.

But go ahead.
Go ahead, man.

-[woman] No, you didn't.
-[Steven] Not even close.

-I don't think I'm the only one.

-[Steven] And? [laughs]

-[man] The only terrorist?

-[woman] You know, I
feel afraid to say,

I don't know what
the hell we're doing.

-[woman] Mm-hm...

-[woman] And I feel
afraid to be not depressed.

-[man] So look, I want to
join in consultation around this

member, because it-- it doesn't
escape I think any of us that

the statement "I don't know what
the hell I'm doing" followed the

statement of
terror and terrorism, right?

Terrorism got
changed to "terror,"

"I don't know what
the hell I'm doing,"

and that helps me to understand
what my colleague spoke.

She was assaulted; there was
a frontal assault to take her

chair by a person
who looks like her.

So we're even being assaulted
by people who look like us.

A gentlemen who looks
like me took my chair.

I'm being assaulted by
someone who even looks like me.

And somebody finally says, "I
don't know what the hell I'm

doing."

-I-- I have one piece of, uh,
data that makes me think that

the camera has been very present
here in everybody's mind.

My piece of data is...

I've been to a lot of
conferences -- like I've said

before.

I've very few conferences has a
gay person not come out in the

large group, and--

-[woman] Hm?
-[woman] What?

-[man] Who came out in the
group as gay in this group?

-[man] That's what I'm saying.

I'm saying--

I'm saying that I'm aware of the
fact that no one has come out as

being gay.

And I'm saying that in most
conferences by this point in

large group at least three
gay people have come out.

-[man] What's that got
to do with anything?

[laughter]

-What-- What it has
to do with-- -I mean,

-I kind of know who's gay
and who isn't gay here.

Why would they have
to come out to me?

I mean, I might be wrong,
but I have some assumptions,

and some of them have
talked to me about,

you know, partners.

So, I'm a little bit more sure
of at least some people here.

And I-- I think that maybe
that's becoming less relevant

culturally than it used to be.

-[man] That could be the case.
I'm just offering you the data.

-[Brad] Isn't it fine that
we're just feeling fear?

Isn't that okay?
Can that be okay?

-I didn't come into this
wanting to bring my problems,

I actually wanted to escape
my problems by coming here and

finding
acceptance among everyone,

and instead I feel so much
animosity and people attacking

each other immediately, where
my first instinct in this large

group is to just shut
down and remove myself.

Because it-- it makes me so
uncomfortable that people don't

get along.

-[Steven] Thank you
for saying that.

'Cause you all put
what I've been feeling.

But you know what
my question is,

and the reason why I'm going to
keep coming all the way 'til the

end?

I want to know why the people
in charge drove-- drove the car

purposefully away from that?

What y'all just said.

I'm talking about
the people in charge.

I'm-- I'm not
talking about the members.

I'm talking about the
psychiatrists or the doctors --

whatever.

Whenever we start
going in that direction,

they will put something in the
air that would drive us in the

totally opposite direction.

And I'm-- I'm
curious to find out why.

-I think that when we
don't address these issues,

we make it worse.

We are putting a layer over top
of it where everything is fine.

And those other
issues simmer underneath.

And I was raised in a
household like that.

And it made me scream and
it made me feel unseen.

I think it's very important in a
group -- If you're going to have

good group dynamics -- you
have to work as a group,

and you can't work as a group,
saying "everything is okay,"

and "we're all
bonded and we get along,"

because we come into
the group with our shit.

And we have-- and part of
my understanding of this,

and how this would work was that
we came in to look at how our

shit interrupts our ability
to function well in a group.

So, to say, "I came and I just
want to-- I want everyone to get

along" says to me, that this
baggage we all bring here is

irrelevant.

And to me that's the
opposite of why I came.

-No matter what
their garbage is,

no matter what--

-No matter which side of
the fence-- I-- I apologize,

I really timed that poorly --
but no matter which side of the

fence everyone is falling on,
it's all-- the picture I have is

that you want to test a
minefield by having a picnic.

And what you talk about, um,
becomes irrelevant in that case.

There's-- There's--
There's this dangerous,

hostile avoidance.

And it is what's not being said
that is what-- that's what--

that's making it
dangerous -- excuse me.

And-- And-- And not-- not
that it never gets mentioned,

'cause, you know,
that'll be the defense.

It does, but it
doesn't get taken up.

-My level of frustration comes
when people make statements such

as "We're not
talking about the issue."

But what's the fucking issue?

You know, is it the-- the issue
of talking about the issue,

or...?

-She just said,
"The hostility--"

-But-- But I-- But, um-- But I'm
saying that-- I'm-- I'm owning

that.

-And the silence
about the hostility,

and so, by you
saying, "What's the issue!"

is like saying--
like mulling over that,

plowing over what Kat just said
and what we are trying to do in

this group repeatedly,
plowing over the hostility.

-Thank you, and I think
that-- and I think that--

-Some of the things-- Some
of the things that she said,

that have been mentioned
but has not been taken on,

which is extremely dangerous,
is some of the stuff that I was

talking about upstairs,
that I said down here.

I said down here, God -- I put
God out there -- nobody ran with

it.

Anything without God
involved is dangerous,

to me.

Some kind of god,
whatever you want to call him.

Uh, yes, yes,
yes, yes, yes, yes.

We do have to identify and
acknowledge the problem.

But if that's all we do and
nothing else that's dangerous,

if--

-[Molly] But I don't think that
we've identified a problem.

I think it's all about
that there is a problem.

-[Steven] I put solutions out
there and it wasn't taken up--

-[Kimberly] I'm feeling hostile
now because I was-- I was in

mid-sentence.

I'm feeling hostile now
because I was in mid-sentence,

and I was cut off and told
what I was doing without being

allowed to finish my thoughts.

I'm feeling hostile right now
because I feel like what I'm

saying very much
represents my experience,

but I have to justify my
statement based on some sort of

psychoanalyst, and I'll I'm
saying is that I'm fucking

confused.

I don't know what
this phantom issue is,

and if it's hostility,
I'm-- I'm just saying,

"Oh yeah, I can-- I
can roll with that."

Yeah, I'm hostile right now,
and this is why I'm hostile.

-But I don't know if-- if
hostility is the issue.

-[Steven] Right, it's not.

-[woman] And I
guess I wonder, like,

if the-- if the project is to
form a group after we've dealt

with all the baggage
that we're bringing here,

that's impossible.

-[Kat] That's what
I'm talking about.

There are vantage points in
this room that are valued.

That's the issue.

-I-- I'm-- I'm scared as shit
that I'm going to be on camera

where, you know, with this is
the first time one of these

things is being filmed, and I
still have no idea what is going

on.

And in fact, the more time goes
on the more and more confused I

get.

And it's-- I-- I-- I keep
getting information that I can't

process quickly enough.

And I feel like I'm just...yeah.

So, someone is going to
be watching this and,

you know...

seeing us kind of
not get anywhere.

And that's kind of scary to-- to
sort of-- to sort of be in-- in

a, by necessity, microcosm,
where-- where we-- where we

can't figure things out might--
might elucidate to the person

watching this that maybe people
aren't really that good at

figuring things out
amongst themselves.

And-- And-- And sort of that--
that maybe the fact that some

sort of unity exists in the
world outside this is-- is-- is

a miracle in itself because
if this is as good as it gets,

then how did we get to
where we are as a species?

[laughter]

-I think I-- I think I hear
a voice from inside of me

speaking.

It's-- It's that of fear.

-And some of it is-- is giving
over to someone else to lead and

direct where that fear goes.

Because I think that
was underneath when,

um...

and I forgot your name, but that
you responded that you weren't a

terrorist...

-[woman] Tom

-Tom, yeah.

That you said, "I'm
not a terrorist."

And it's clear Steven
didn't-- never said that,

never used that word.

So, was it like,
"I'm taking over?"

Why did you choose that word?

'Cause it's clear,
he's-- he's right.

He never said the
word "terrorist."

-[man] Are you
asking a question?

-[woman] I am, of Tom.

-[woman] But...what...okay.

-I think it's just becoming
obvious that no one wants to

feel invalidated.

Everyone wants to feel like
they have power or autonomy.

There's just a-- it's
just a power struggle.

I mean, I don't
want to reduce it,

but I am reducing it.

It's just a power struggle.

I think the
anticipation of failure,

or the anticipation of rejection
is-- is becoming greater than

what might actually play out.

It seems like generally
speaking everyone here is fairly

receptive to some degree.

-My response to your question
is my experience is being

dismissed.

Whatever I put
out gets dismissed.

[crackling sound]

-[man] I think Donald
Trump is a great president.

[laughter]

-[man] That's great.
That's a great line.

-[man] I agree.
I agree.

-[man] Nobody will
say anything different.

-[woman] I disagree.

But as a Russian I
suspect you would think that.

[laughter and clapping]

-And as a Black person I
know you'd have that feeling.

[laughter]

-[Kimberly That's going on
the cutting room floor.

[laughter]

-[Francis] That
was pretty great.

I have a daughter who's
31 and a son who's 34.

And I grew up during the Vietnam
War -- my name's Francis.

And I get into the voting
booth and I saw a pack of shit,

a big pack-- I'm
sorry, a sack of shit here,

a big sack.

And a sack of shit
here, but a smaller one.

And I just would no longer vote
for the ruling class that hid

everything.

From Chappaquiddick, to the
secret bombing of Cambodia,

Kennedy--

-[man] Gulf of Tonkin
-Nixon...

The Bushes, the
Clintons, and Nixon.

I just finished reading the
Pentagon Papers for the second

time.

The stuff that
was hidden from me,

and I-- I-- I've
told you before,

I remember in law school looking
out at the Federal building and

wondering what those idiots were
walking around the thing for.

And one of the things I'm most
ashamed of in my life is not

having the guts to go out
and protest the Vietnam War,

and just...

And, as much of an asshole as
anyone may think Trump is -- and

I'm not suggesting you do or
don't -- there's no question in

my mind, and let me say
this parenthetically--

-[woman] Can I just say this
conversation is making very

uncomfortable.

I would really not
like to talk politics,

and I would really not like to
talk judgements of politics.

I think a joke was made.

I think bonding--
laughter is very good bonding.

But to throw out judgements and
assume you're speaking to the

choir might not be true.

-What's-- What is
interesting though is,

um, the idea of
regretting not protesting,

or regretting not acting on
something in relation to this

room, and like--

-Well, I've been searching for
a Trump voter at one of these

conferences and I found one.

So, that's very unique for me.

-Congratulations.

-And I was-- I was just
interested in hearing what you

have to say because we've been
kind of in the room together--

-But this is a digression.

-Well, it's only a
digression if we,

uh, don't connect it
back to this conference.

-If you don't mind, you've
stirred a consultation inside of

me.

Uh, there's some-- there's some
very political things going on

right here in the
front of this room,

some-- some issues of authority,
delegations and reconfigurations

that it seems like you're
choosing to ignore for whatever

reason.

-And it doesn't seem like
they've actually voted for me to

be here.

It's quite troubling.

-There's one sack of shit,
and another sack of shit.

[laughter]

-And to quote "smaller one."

[laughter]

-I see the sack of
shit's inaugurated.

-See-- See-- See,
Kat-- Kat and Ray,

I've got to say this to
you as my colleagues.

I think we are so
fucking repulsive,

which probably means that the
directors who hired us are so

repulsive that we just had
a protest where 80% of the

membership decided not to show
up until somebody went and got

'em.

-I'm-- I'm just kind of confused
on why there's authority within

the consultation to be leading
us somewhere when it doesn't

seem like you're
leading us anywhere,

which is why we're not
giving you authority.

I feel like whenever they make
a statement to get us back on

task, everyone had this anxiety
build up again on what exactly

the task was supposed to be, but
no one has exactly named what

this task is or how
we're going to get there.

-[man] The task is to examine
your behavior in the here and

now.

-Perhaps there might be things
about these consultants that

make it difficult, or make it
seem difficult to do that work.

-[man] This conference is
somewhat like the Hilary Clinton

campaign.

That is there's been a lack of
boundaries within the Hilary

campaign.

-I would really appreciate that
we did not talk about the past

presidential campaign.

It's something that I-- I have
very very strong opinions about,

and I would feel that it would
break apart the bonding that I

have felt in this group.

And it would get me
on my grandstand,

and I really don't
want to get on it.

-[man] Well, I'd--
I'd like to say this.

That this is a
conference directed by a woman.

She's hired the director.

She's hired the consultants.

So, that examination of that in
the here and now is appropriate.

-She was hired by a man!

-And she was
hired by a man, yes.

-[woman] That has nothing to do
with Hilary Clinton's campaign.

-It's very similar
to that campaign.

-Why is it-- No, I don't want
to talk about that campaign,

because first of all, all you've
done is read one book about that

campaign.
You have not experienced it.

-What I pointed out was
that my daughter and I have a

generational difference and it's
really hard to connect how I

feel about her not
having lost the election,

but rather having
been impeached,

because she thought it was hers.

She-- She was entitled to it.

And my daughter's perception
about what a wonderful example

of a woman she is.

There's just a
generational difference.

I've lived certain
things that she hasn't.

I don't mean I'm
right and she's wrong.

I just mean it's
hard to connect--

-I'm the same generation of
you and I disagree with you.

-I think this conversation
is totally deflecting.

I think Frank's comment was
interestingly deflecting in

terms of maybe the indifference
that we felt towards the

consultants' moving around as
some kind of personal insult.

And that Frank--

-Who even noticed?

-I am having a hard time --
and maybe I'm speaking for other

people here -- I'm having a hard
time knowing what's real and not

real.

-[Steven] Yes.

You just spoke for me.

There's a bunch of
bullshit in the air.

-What bothers me is that, every
time when there's a judgement

placed on the consultants, it's
never coming from the membership

-- that's their assertion.

If the membership
is in the lounge,

then guess what, that is
where the work is happening.

Why don't the consultants
join us in the lounge?

Why is it that we, a group of 30
are trying to pick the brains of

these people who have
delegated themselves as super

intellectuals, and who
give these broad definitions,

and their driving us all crazy.

-The point of their like, uh,
lack of involvement is to maybe,

to try and remain neutral, and--
and it becomes a template for

one to, like, project
a-- a fear or a feeling.

-You can't be neutral and be--
and put expectations out there.

-And you can't be
neutral and build a pyramid.

-I think there's anxiety
around exerting authority.

Like, I think the consultants
have repeatedly raised the issue

of us killing them off in order
to invite us to kill them off,

but we-- we have
not killed them off.

-[woman] I'm ready. [laughs]

-[woman] But why does
killing them off have to be?

-'Cause think of all the ways
that we could be doing that.

Like, we stay soldered in our
seats but could just stand up.

-I'd like to share with you an
idea that I think is completely

different than where you are--

-Stand up and talk.
Be a man, stand up!

-And one of the reasons why I
think it is so different is how

you orchestrated in the
past for us to be displaced,

and how you as a group
orchestrated and participated in

allowing us to sit
where we choose today.

-[man] Well, why
are you sitting.

You should be
standing, so we can see you.

I can't even see you.

-What I think it's
called is fight or flight.

You're so fearful of
what you have configured,

and allowed us to configure
that you're angry as hell,

scared as hell, and doing
everything you can not to look

at the fact that we're doing
what we're doing and sitting

where we're doing--
where we're sitting,

and you had a part in that.

-[woman] And
they're sitting opposite.

Two consultants are sitting very
close to each other and opposite

each other, which is the
first time that's happened.

-There seems to be some
discomfort from the consultants

though, that they've somehow had
to respond or acquiesce to our

decisions.

-[Tom] I deliberately chose to
be at the end of the spiral...

in part because part of my
experience of what's going on

now, uh, had to do
with bomb throwing.

Uh, bomb throwing
into the middle.

And I-- I anticipated
if I were to choose,

or to attempt to
choose to be in the center,

that I'd be the
recipient of bombs.

So, I'm just very
aware of the sense of,

uh, placing them
in a bunker, and,

um, outside of that bunker.

-[man] So, the female consultant
has taken the one seat that has

been recognized
as the power seat.

And that is an indication
that she feels unauthorized.

[laughter]

-Go, Mark.

[applause]

-The lack of
willingness to actually feel.

Like, I am sitting
here with so much rage,

and I will-- I'll let you know
that I am willing to demonstrate

that rage by screaming
at the top of my lungs,

which will scare the
fuck out of you if I do it.

-[man] Do it.
Do it.

-[man] No, wait.

Let me get my-- I want to record
that so I can use it as my

ringtone.

-It's already being recorded.

[laughter]

-I-- I'm really
confused on how-- sorry.

-I absolutely have a request
that the group take a look at

its use of a member, and perhaps
things about a certain member,

that would make him such a good
elected official to try to cut

me off from my colleague.

-[woman] I would
like to address that,

and I would like to say, by what
authority he has given himself

that, when I don't
agree with his doing that.

-I think-- I think
that, essentially,

I think Kim was--

[laughter and clapping]

I think Kim was on to something.

The structure that was set up
for us when we came here...

no one questioned it.

-We have a bond.

[laughter]

-I'm really glad seats and
where people sit have no power.

[laughter]

-Yeah, that will
be chaos, right.

Can't-- When-- When people
can just move around and the

physical boundaries
aren't respected,

the safe-- the space
is no longer safe.

Like, who knows, maybe we'll
just run around this fucking

room.

-Go ahead.
-No!

Fucking no!

We're not going to fucking
run around this goddamn room.

No!

-You're not going to scare us.

-I'm not interested
in scaring you--

-Oh yes, you are.
-No, I'm not!

-I-- I think you are.

-No theatricalism
whatsoever of these--

-I'd like for
people to sit down.

I would like for people
to sit down and pause,

and let's talk.

And if you need to feel, feel
with your fucking -- pardon me,

I don't mean to
shame -- but feel,

and, you know,
respect boundaries.

-Give me directions.

-How can we have a conversation
if I can't even see you?

I mean, you're screaming.

Your saying, "No, I'm
going to run around this--"

-No, that's not what I said.

I didn't say I'm
going to run around.

I did not say that at all.
You misheard me.

No, I did not.

-He-- He did not
want to run around.

-I don't want
people to run around.

But it's
interesting that children,

if you say
"don't," then they do.

Because they don't
even hear a negative.

They just hear
what you're saying.

So, if you wanna--
So, and I'm not--

-My-- My-- My-- My
next consultation,

I'm very-- I'm feeling
very cautious about.

And I-- My-- My image is
that, like an idiot savant,

this group has spread shit on
every reflective surface it's

come across.

[crackling sound]

-What is it about the fact that
most of the women and the men in

this room cannot speak to what
you're sitting on-- speak to the

experience that
you are sitting on,

and what this does to you.

You'd rather fight with each
other or fight about something,

rather than speak to the
experience that you're sitting

on about what you're looking at.

-[Steven] Can't nobody speak to
it because of the cross-talk.

Every time-- Every
time-- Every time,

man, I see somebody
attempting to work on something,

some analytical college
Masters-- Masters degree

person...

cross-talk, man.

Just jump in and,
right, cut the person off.

-[man] How about a two-minute
time limit on a chair.

-[Steven] It can't be done
without some kind of cross-talk

rules.

-I never know what to do
when I bump into a consultant,

like, on my way to
the bathroom, or,

um, in the hallway, um, or how
to engage in the moment before

everyone came into the room.

I feel like I respond to
the idea that there's,

like, a-- an
authoritative boundary.

That they're, like, in charge,
and I don't want to breech it.

I-- I don't
understand why it's--

-There's information in the
room here that I don't have.

I came in just after
the time boundary.

And I wonder whether
Kat stole that seat,

or whether they agreed
for her to sit there.

-[Steven] No, they agreed.

-They-- Did-- did you see that?

-Because they was
in here first, man.

They-- They was in here first.

There was nobody in here to--
There was nobody in here to

compete for those seats, man.

It was nobody in here to
compete for those seats.

They knew what they was doing.

It was a doggone agreement.

-Thank you.

-Best-- Best word I can put it.

Even if it was set up yesterday
or right before this started.

It was an agreement.

-You know, when I-- I'm on TV --
and I've been on TV a few times

-- I really like
showing I'm smart.

I really like it.

And I like
performing; I like singing,

I like dancing, I
like giving speeches.

And I've been seeing
a lot of speeches,

a lot of singing, and a lot of
dancing for the last three days.

A lot of dancing,
a lot of singing, okay?

But what that does for me
is protects me and masks my

vulnerability.

-I don't want to be distracted
from the question I asked.

-He answered you.

-I would like somebody
to give me the answer.

Somebody that was in the
room when they came here.

-This gentleman was the
first guy in the room,

I was the second person room,
and then the consultants were

three, four and five.

-So-- So, they were
three, four and five.

Did they arrange-- did
they arrange to do this?

-You see I'm sitting down.

I don't know what
the arrangement was.

-Wasn't nobody sitting in the
middle to compete with them,

man.

-So now you know the
answer to your question.

-It doesn't take no rocket
scientist or no Masters degree

to see that.

-Is the question whether or not
they arranged it ahead of time

or whether they walked into
the room and duked it out for--

between the two of
them for which seat?

-[man] Was there a
stealing action?

-[woman] Can't we ask them?

-[Steven] Hell no, because they
not going to answer directly.

-There's more-- There's more
data than just who made the

choice in finding that out.

There's more data about what's
going on in here than that.

-I trust these two people.

Just to be clear, these two
people are very trustworthy

people.

-But that's only as good as
the people who trust you to make

that conclusion.

-That's true.

-Well, I see a supposed plea for
personal interaction from the

consultants.

And Frank has offered
it, quite willingly.

And his comment was totally
brushed past and ignored.

And the moment then, maybe
that vulnerability makes us

uncomfortable, and the
vulnerability in perceived

instability between these two
consultants is actually what

precipitated the-- the chaos.

That we do seek stability.

We do seek authority.

And when that's
called into question,

chaos ensues.

And I would challenge the group
to consider their actual deep

desire for
authority and guidance,

which seems to be
pretty consistent.

-Yeah, I-- I
definitely want authority.

Definitely want guidance.
I can go along with it.

-I would like to say that
perhaps the cameras make the

consultants unstable, because
it changes their relationship to

the members.

-[woman] Which is
feeding into the membership.

-[woman] Right.

-[man] I believe that
consultants actually took on

much greater responsibility
and the stakes are a lot higher

because they are the ones who
are ultimately responsible if

this whole thing derails.

And I don't know if it
doesn't, or it does.

I don't know what
the objective is.

I don't know what the vision is.

Ah, but, uh, when I
look at Kat, for example.

Uh, I can tell, like, Kat
is performing right now,

and-- because, you know, that's
a completely different persona

from what I see
when we have this,

you know, debriefing in the end.

I have never seen
Kat chewing gum,

for example, during
those debriefings.

So, for me it's like, you know,
putting on the make-up and,

you know, dressing up
and waking up on stage.

So, chewing gum is the element
that indicates that she is

playing a role, right?

So, the consultants are playing
roles and we're supposed to

react authentically.

And maybe that's
what we resent, right?

-But I think it's interesting
that Frank broke-- has broken

that role a little bit.

And that he's offered his
vulnerability and that's also

been rejected.

-[man] But he is
not in power since,

so we really don't know.

-He said he-- He said
he heard, or-- or see,

a bunch of people
dancing around and all that.

Where did you hear the
vulnerability in his comment?

-Yeah, I-- I agree with you.
I-- I didn't hear anything.

-No, I'm-- but--
Cross-- Cross-talk, please.

Cross-talk, please.

Tell me, where did you
hear the vulnerability?

He said that he-- he hear
us just singing and dancing.

Sounds like-- Sounds like--
Sounds like a bunch of bullshit

to me.

Where did you hear
the vulnerability?

Please, cross-talk, please!

I'm asking you -- where did
you hear the vulnerability?

And I'm-- And I'm-- And I'm
sorry for being so dramatic.

But I have to do this
because I'm not as-- I'm not as

"intelligent" as you all, so
when I says something you all

cut me off.

-I guess one of the
things that I haven't is that,

uh...

it-- it seems to be difficult
in here with-- with this-- this

group, to allow each of you
as members to own your own

experience.

Your experience is
your experience.

-Can I say something?

One thing that I wanted to say
is that I've been trying to say

something for a very long
time and I have noticed,

when we first met--
when we first gathered,

it was a lot easier to
talk in the big group.

If someone wanted
to say something,

they didn't have to
wait for too long.

I found-- I feel
that now, perhaps,

it's the
progression of the group,

but I don't like
this progression.

We need to watch
who's speaking next.

I think that would help
whatever it is that we're doing.

And what I really
wanted to say though,

is that-- to address, you know,
why it is that we're reacting to

the consultants this way.

My hypothesis is that they are
trying to push us to open a door

that we don't
want to open, right?

I mean, correct?

So, they're trying to--
They keep telling us,

"No guys, you're not doing
what you're supposed to,"

right?
What are we supposed to do?

You know that what we're
supposed to do is something that

is going to be
uncomfortable, right?

So, we don't want to do it.

And then we don't do it,
because we don't want to.

And they kept
telling us, "No, no,

but you guys should do it.
That's why we're here for."

[crackling sounds]

-In the dream
space this morning,

it was-- it was all silence.

Nobody really said
anything, I mean--

-What?
Huh?

-[woman] There was a
lot of people speaking.

-In fact, I was excited that
you spoke about your dream.

-Oh.
Thank you.

-Well, one thing that's--

[laughter]

-The memory is challenging.

-One thing that's really
attracting my attention is that

the female consultant took the
power seat and then said it was

a political act.

She said, "We need
to talk about--" well,

the connection
was-- she made--

-She didn't say any of that.

-That-- That's what I heard.
-Can I say something?

I feel that there's a lot of
animosity because she is in the

power seat and she is a woman.

That's what I honestly feel.

And mainly from the men.

-And-- And not just that,
but a younger one and a very

attractive woman and a
very well-dressed woman.

-[man] And she is chewing gum.

-[woman] And not a white woman.

-[woman] And not a
white woman, yes,

as well.

-[woman] Well, for me, the whole
thing is that there's several

layers and-- and structures
that we don't talk about.

Like, there's one layer-- layer
of what the structure's like

that we might not like, and
others have spoken to that.

I don't think that should be
translated into "We have no

respect for the consultants, and
the consultants don't do this or

that."

There's no two-way
in terms of, well,

what should the
structure be like?

We don't get that.

We're just like, "You
take it or leave it."

And so then, when it comes
to time to talk about issues,

um, I think we're already set up
to feel as though the structure

was given to us and we
better just accept it.

That's-- That's my feeling.

-See, I'm gonna consult on that.

Because I believe
that might be true,

but at the moment I don't care.

What I care about at the
moment is that-- and it's really

interesting that the two-- two
members who I am going to make

reference to what they spoke
about just moved toward me,

even though I haven't
made the intervention yet.

I experience two subtle
movements towards intimacy in

the last minutes or so --
there are probably a lot more,

but I experience two.

One was a man who said, "I
struggle to communicate with my

daughter."

But there are a lot of people
in the room who look like his

daughter -- at
least some in age,

but nobody took it up.

Another man had a woman say,
"I found your dream exciting."

How was that taken
up about intimacy?

Thank you!

And then somebody
said, "George, Barsh,

Abraham..."

So, there's this real
scary shit about-- And yeah,

I hear you, you do it
in the small group.

You do it in the
men's room, the bath,

I don't know.
But you know what?

What the hell is the fear
about intimacy in this room.

Because there's a lot of
intimacy in this room.

But we're just
scared to talk about it.

-I think that, um...

[clears throat] I
think that for me,

subconsciously, I sit in the
outer circle because I want to

be close to what's going on.

I want to see.
I want to test the waters.

Um, I personally
don't have a problem,

um, with the
consultant being in the seat.

I've admired her from a
distance since we've been here.

She is attractive.
She is very well-dressed.

And I've admired every pair of
shoes she's rocked since day

one.

And it may sound very petty, but
it's just been something that--

that-- that's
made me notice her.

I think that for right now, um,
I recognize that I struggle with

a sense of uncertainty that
I'm not comfortable with.

I'm uncertain
about what's my role.

Who am I to the
individuals in the room?

Um, what's going to
be the take away?

I am sensitive
about being judged.

And I think that
for me, I feel...

I get-- I get really agitated
and my horns really go up when

I'm not being heard, you know?

And I-- And I don't know if I'm
subconsciously trying to connect

with the consultant who
reminds me of my dad.

Um, but it-- it--
It's a sense of being,

of time being lost
and time being wasted,

and what we're here for.

-[Kat] Much of this feels
like a test -- perhaps of the

consultants -- but my
suspicion is that it's,

uh, the entire institution about
whether or not collaboration is

possible.

And, on a higher order, whether
or not a woman can be trusted to

manage that collaboration.

-Uh, when we do describe Kat, we
said a lot of times that she's

very pretty, she's
well dressed, you know,

I admire her, so I don't
mind her sitting there.

And I don't really think we've
taken to the fact that she's a

doctor and she has the
knowledge to really lead us.

And it-- it really, like,
rubbed me the wrong way.

I know it was meant in
all-- I know it was meant as a

compliment, but the fact that we
addressed her in a way that kind

of objectified her--

-To be sexual.

-And I think that-- I thank you
for bringing that up because I

think that's something that--
that I struggle with as well.

As a woman there
is a struggle, um,

for me, with being seen
as just a physical piece.

And not being seen as
someone who is intellectual,

who is thoughtful.

And I think that that's where
my personal frustration comes,

when I'm trying to make a point
and-- and I feel like I'm-- I'm

in an environment where
I feel shitty right now.

-I would like to throw
something into that,

I would like to ask the women
in this group to acknowledge to

themselves how they also...

-[woman] Save the men
from being vulnerable--

-No!
That's not what I was said.

Please, let me finish.
How we-- Let me finish, please.

-No, no.
You took my thunder.

-[man] She's talking.
She was talking.

-[woman] I asked if
I could interrupt.

I asked if I could interrupt.

-Go ahead.

-And I have one
short thing to say.

And I would like the women in
this room to acknowledge that we

too play a role...

in seeing women as less
than, or diminutized.

And I think it's very
hard for women to see that.

I was the one who said-- who
talked about her clothes and how

she looked first.

I was doing it in reference to
perhaps how we all were reacting

to her as that.

But I think it's important for
women to acknowledge that we,

also, do not allow other women
to assume their power often.

-And see, this is exactly
what I'm talking about.

Why is it that you
can't say how you feel?

Why is it that your-- Why is it
that your statement starts with

"we?"

What do you feel?

And, see-- And to me, when
you make that statement-- Out,

out-- When you--
When you say-- but...

but here's my point, when you
say that "I don't want to talk

about this particular topic
because I have strong feelings,"

we all acquiesced
and we respected that,

because that was your thing.

But-- But for you to come out
here with a "my" statement and

make it a "we" statement,
I find that offensive.

I find that to be more offensive
than if you would just address

me personally and say that I
offended your sensibility.

Like, I could respect that.

But for you to feel that you
have some power to speak for the

"we," it's-- it's--

-Can I-- Can I introject?
-Yeah.

-I-- This was a
statement, I'm assuming,

that was meant to
foster camaraderie.

And to say "we," I think,
was a gesture of good faith.

-Okay.

-And that-- that it made sense.

-Okay.

-It's also something that I
have spent a great deal of my

professional life focused on
and working on as an artist.

And I've spent a lot
of time looking at it,

and how it effects the ability
for women to project their power

into the world.

Now that's not
true of every woman.

I said it as meaning
women as an overall whole.

Rather than you, specifically.
That's was my milieu.

-But my-- But my point is this.

See-- See again you made an
assumption that you-- you

brought some sort of
professional license into the

conversation.

-I'm not a
professional in that field.

-As though my statement about
how I felt somehow needed to be

validated.

-I wasn't devaluing you.

I was asking to
add a layer to it.

-'Cause you monopolizing
the whole damn thing.

Please give
somebody else a turn.

-[man] Do you mind if I make--
Do you mind if I say this?

-Not at all.

-It, um-- I-- I'm fascinated.

It's utterly fascinating
to watch this group and

particularly the men, uh, sit
by and have allowed the women to

have a cat fight, a mud wrestle.

-A mud wrestle.

-And the ultimate
goal of the mud wrestle,

it's to get rid of Dr. Harding.

[laughter]

Men, own your shit.

Hey, I been-- I
just-- I just said,

man, please give
somebody else a turn!

Just monopolizing
the whole damn thing.

-Thank you so much
for saying that.

That was so
deliberately-- Kat fight.

I mean-- I mean, I'm gonna-- I'm
gonna work under the assumption

that was totally intentional.

Or-- Or I can work under the
assumption that that was just

flagrantly sexist.

-[man] Cat fight.

-[woman] Yup.

Yes.

[laughter]

-I think-- I think-- And I don't
think the point of that was to

oust Kat.

I don't agree.

-[Kat] There's a bit
of a mime occurring.

And I'm-- I'm hoping this-- this
works well with my colleagues

last consultation of what it
means to be in power in this

room.

And based on my
placement today, the assumption,

the fantasy seems to
be that one must fight,

one must undermine.

Because, perhaps
that's how women get power.

-I don't think it's-- it
needs to be this intense.

Like, I think the whole-- I
think the-- the point that was

being made is that, uh, like, it
was somebody's perspective that

the women were taking up
the-- what-- what needed to be

addressed, or-- or arguing
because they were willing to

speak and willing to put
themselves out there to-- to

speak.

And I'm wondering
if-- if there are any,

like, other people in the
room interested in inter-- yeah,

talking enough.

[crackling sounds]

-I'm beginning to get enraged
by Leigh Ledare moving in as a

member of this conference.

-I'm grateful that Leigh
has sat in and joined us.

-Well, it-- it
clearly is intrusive.

And, for me, I'm
just-- Just wait a second.

-Yeah, yeah.

-It's a clear violation
of what I signed up for.

And for that movement, I
find highly threatening.

-I really appreciate you
speaking to your rage.

-[man] Don't
patronize, just talk.

-I'm not.
I am not.

Because I'm not
feeling rage right now.

And I imagine you're
holding some for me.

And I'm really grateful that
you're doing that work and

speaking up to it.

-[man] Well, for me it's about
whether the boundaries can be

trusted.

And I join with
my colleague, Tom,

that the boundary
has been violated.

-The artist has signed his work.

-Why don't you
take Leigh's seat?

-Tom, I wish you wouldn't go.

-He may be going
to the bathroom.

-He may.

-Naw.
He ain't going to the bathroom.

He making a statement.

-Part of-- Leslie, I
appreciated what you said a lot,

and part of what I want to add
to it from a different dimension

is the way I experienced stand
up as a man now that Leigh has

stepped in is that maybe some
people want to direct that at

him, um, and here he is.

I don't think he can speak.
But who knows what he'll do.

[laughter]

I think there's
been a wish-- no,

I mean, like, as a
person he can speak,

but I don't know if--
like, I don't know,

one thing--

-[man] He's a talking signature.

-But I think a lot of people
have wished that they could

speak to him, um,
in the conference.

And yet, I also had a very
interesting experience before

the conference
that he called me.

And I've never had...

and I know he's
not part of the, um,

conference portion
administration...

and I thought that
he was, at the time.

And so It was very confusing
when he called me and just had

space for me.

Like, "Do you
have any questions?"

And I didn't.

But it just felt so much warmth.

And then he said hi to me when
he went to the bathroom this

morning.

[crying] And so, I just
feel some connection with him.

And so, there's been a lot
of attack on him and also,

like, a desire for connection.

-So, why does this
group keep doing this?

They keep picking
the same member...

a woman of color, an
Asian woman of color,

to do your grief
and your crying.

This group has been doing this
to this woman every large group

since the first one.

-We haven't done that at all.
-I can't believe that's true.

I honestly can't
believe that's true.

-[woman] We didn't select her.

-You saw a bottle of intimacy
and you all ran away from it.

-Can you speak more, Brad?

-I'd really like to work
with Frank's consultation.

But here's what's
getting in the way.

Here's the barrier.

Here's the wall
that's been created.

The director-- the film director
has taken up a role in this

circle.

Now if he's here in
the observer role,

he's not conforming to the
way in which observers have

conformed.

In other words, the
boundaries have been violated.

If he's here as
director of the film project,

that's not the way in which we
have been operating over the

last three or four sessions.

So, I'd like to work
with the issue of grief.

I can't get beyond this
boundary transgression.

-And I'm going to have to-- have
to speak to-- to speak to that,

and, uh, with my colleagues.

It-- It-- t definitely is
a clear boundary violation.

An unexpected and an
unnegotiated boundary violation.

-And he's taking
Cleveland's chair.

-He trying-- He
trying to say something.

You all better listen.

He trying to say something.

-This group has ignored us as
a film crew this entire time.

-We were told to do so.

We were told to do so.

-And we colluded in that.

-Well then-- then it is
a boundary violation.

Don't-- That's what I've
been complaining about,

is that a structure that's
set up that we had no input in,

we were told, the
film is to be ignored.

And then all of a
sudden, you've ignored us.

Are you kidding me?

-I agree.

It's-- It's disruptive
to-- to some extent.

And it is all the things
that people are saying.

But I-- I'm-- I need to
simplify back down to the data.

We've lost two experienced, uh,
Group Relations men in the-- in

the process of this.

And I suspect, in
the model of the mind,

Leigh, perhaps even his crew,
represents something that is

untouchable.

It might be untouchable-ness
in and of itself.

But I don't-- I'm gonna put-- I
have higher expectations around

the hypothesis than that,
and I need help with it.

And you can fuck around for the
last few minutes of the group.

Or you can collaborate.

Because I want help.

-Hmm, mmm, mmm.

All y'all-- All
y'all analytical minds,

what you gonna do with that?

[laughs]

-I am scared that--

-She was talking behind you.

-I'm interested in how the group
dynamic completely changed.

I think it-- it gives us a
whole different set of--

-It-- it, in fact
-- If I can join?

-Yeah.

-It-- It in fact, uh, goes
directly at the authority of

this conference, in general.

-Well, I'm not
reading it that way.

I'm defining it indirectly--

-It goes directly to the
authority of the conference

director.

It goes directly to the
delegation of the conference

director to me as the
leader of the large group team.

It goes directly to the function
and the power and authority of

the consultants in the room.

And, in fact, it makes me
wonder if I can do my work.

-For me, as a
member of the community,

I don't feel offended--

-Can I say something, please?

-Because he is the person who
is going to be the person who

determines what gets on
film and what doesn't.

So, I don't know what
your relationship is.

But for me, as a
member of the group,

I agreed to this originally.

Who do you think was going to
get at this if it wasn't him?

-Okay, can I please say
something pertaining to what she

asked for help for.

Help!

Okay, she said that my
man represented something

"untouchable."

First thing I
thought of was God.

Representing
something "untouchable."

Now he's in this room.

She have a problem with it.

Now, what that made
me think of, okay.

Me and God can't touch
one another physically.

Or we can't be at
one physically.

But we can be at
one spiritually.

Mentally.
Emotionally.

That's what I thought.

-I think that-- that-- that If
the conference staff-- if the

large group staff feels
that they've been invaded,

that if the leader of the
conference staff feels that his

role has been taken away,
and also feels that he has

difficulty doing the work,
previously the other-- another

member of the large group staff
complained about the cameras and

asked them to be taken
out, then God dammit,

get up and walk out!

-How is that
helping her though, man.

The lady asked for help.

-There's a dual--

-She doesn't need our help.

She needs her own help.

If she's uncomfortable
with Leigh being here--

-You helping her,
to help the group.

-She's free to leave.

-There's a dual authority here.

-So, I think what Leigh is kept
carrying for the group is the

untrust that has been in
this since the beginning.

-Only for people who
have trust issues.

-The two tasks.

Are we making a film
and doing a performance?

Or are we doing the
work of the written task,

to examine the here and now?

-Or maybe Leigh wants
the two of them to merge.

-Yes.

-And isn't the merging of them
part of what a lot of us signed

up for?

And that by Leigh coming in he's
asserting the authority of the

background half to enter
into the actual group itself.

-I don't understand why
people are upset by it.

And I'm just very
naive, I guess,

but it seems to
me-- May I finish?

Unless he begins to direct us,
and tell us "Don't talk about

that," or whatever --that I
would find intrusive -- but I

think your sitting here, it
seems to threaten people and I

don't understand why.

-Oh, I understand why.

-Can we begin to understand
what the pain is about,

and hold that together.

-I think that experienced
conference members came in here

with different expectations.

And failing to understand
that this is not a typical

conference.

And there is a significant
dynamic that has been largely

ignored, and that
is of the artist.

And so, that too, left to me,
just validifies that they failed

to understand what
they were signing up for.

And that there is such
upset, there's a failure of

understanding here.

So, I think--

-I don't agree.

-Do you think you
could-- I like what you said.

And do you think you could--
would you be willing to take up

any of the emotion on that?

Or, like, how you feel about it.

'Cause I feel like
she's carrying it.

-See, one of the-- one of the
things that-- that-- that I'm

experiencing at the moment is
that not only has my position

been taken away.

But my-- I guess, to put it--
to put it-- put it directly,

my balls have been taken away.

-Well, tell him.
Tell him.

He's sitting right there
in front of your statement.

-I'm in a group...

-[man] Uh yeah, okay...

-I'm making a consultation.

My balls have been-- I've been
pretty much-- My ability to work

has been removed.

-Yeah, and two people left.

I think, but--

-But I think that says more
about their-- their weaknesses

and their failures
than the introjection.

I do.

I think the way
that's being perceived--

-Come on, Leigh.
Come on.

-The point is, Ray,
what you said to me,

is that we're
building a bridge--

-He didn't say that to you.
He's just put it out there.

-Okay, come on, Leigh!
-Excuse me.

Mr. Lewis.

-Mr. Lewis.

One thing that you said to me
is that we're building a bridge

that's not finished yet.

There's a gray area.

-This is a here and now event.

-You know, there's a "here
and now" that has been ignored.

The camera inside
this entire conference.

This is why I'm here.

I'm here as a connection point.

-His authority evades them all.

-We were told to make
certain that we didn't,

um, interfere with the filming.

-But why did we follow that?

-But then in a sense, he came
in and violated the rules of the

conference.

So, we were told not
to violate the filming,

the art part.

And yet he's violated the part
of the group that shouldn't have

been violated.

So, I understand what
Mr. Lewis is saying.

-I'm asking there to be a
consideration of these very

rules.

-But we never were given that
opportunity from the beginning,

and I'm pissed off about it.

-If the rules block us
from understanding something

ever-present in the room.

-Right.

-We have talked about--

-She want to say
something over here.

-Can I?

Just really quick.

-Yes, please.

-Cause you all dominating
it-- the doggone week.

-Thank you.

[clapping]

-That's what you do
when you're pissed off.

You get up.

-The cameras are still running.

-I'm pissed off and I'm--
You still monopolizing.

-You can say what you want.
The cameras are still running.

-Well, okay-- Well
anyone who cares about it.

-This is our choice!

-I feel that we have
been-- [door shuts]