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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:36,953 --> 00:00:39,456 You see how greedy this move looks? 2 00:00:39,539 --> 00:00:41,332 Yeah, I could see how it looks greedy, 3 00:00:41,416 --> 00:00:43,835 but I think there's a lot of altruistic properties to it. 4 00:00:44,711 --> 00:00:48,047 Martin Shkreli brashly raised the price of Daraprim 5 00:00:48,131 --> 00:00:53,178 from $13.50 a pill to $750. 6 00:00:54,054 --> 00:00:55,930 The most hated man in America 7 00:00:56,014 --> 00:00:58,016 provoked a lot of anger on Capitol Hill today. 8 00:00:58,099 --> 00:01:01,061 The "pharma bro" CEO grinned before Congress... 9 00:01:01,144 --> 00:01:04,355 Martin Shkreli lived up to his bad-boy reputation... 10 00:01:04,439 --> 00:01:06,441 Smirkfest. 11 00:01:06,524 --> 00:01:08,443 It's not funny, Mr. Shkreli. 12 00:01:08,526 --> 00:01:11,780 People are dying and they're getting sicker and sicker. 13 00:01:14,324 --> 00:01:17,577 The poster boy for hiking drug prices 14 00:01:17,660 --> 00:01:19,954 arrested today for securities fraud. 15 00:01:23,666 --> 00:01:26,461 I was sitting with an investor who was complaining to me 16 00:01:26,544 --> 00:01:30,006 about how awful and unethical Martin Shkreli's actions were 17 00:01:30,089 --> 00:01:32,217 in hiking up the price of Daraprim. 18 00:01:32,300 --> 00:01:36,054 I said to him, "Why is what Valeant's doing any different?" 19 00:01:36,137 --> 00:01:38,807 And he said, "Well, that's a good question." 20 00:01:40,850 --> 00:01:43,269 If Martin was the minnow in all of this... 21 00:01:44,437 --> 00:01:47,690 then Valeant CEO Mike Pearson was the whale. 22 00:03:27,749 --> 00:03:30,043 I was always this Pollyanna growing up 23 00:03:30,126 --> 00:03:33,630 and thought science and drugs are all for the good. 24 00:03:33,713 --> 00:03:36,716 But that was kind of idealistic and unrealistic. 25 00:03:38,092 --> 00:03:41,137 These are capitalist businesses. 26 00:03:41,221 --> 00:03:43,765 They're trying to make profits for their shareholders 27 00:03:43,848 --> 00:03:47,644 and sometimes they use tactics I wouldn't necessarily agree with. 28 00:03:52,982 --> 00:03:54,901 Short sellers tend to get a bad rap 29 00:03:54,984 --> 00:03:58,863 because we say a lot of things that people don't want to hear. 30 00:03:59,906 --> 00:04:01,991 There are a lot of people who don't like me. 31 00:04:02,075 --> 00:04:04,452 Valeant management certainly does not like me. 32 00:04:04,535 --> 00:04:07,580 But that doesn't stop me, 33 00:04:07,664 --> 00:04:09,540 because I'm driven by doing good by the people 34 00:04:09,624 --> 00:04:12,877 that have been taken advantage of by companies like Valeant. 35 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:17,882 What I do is not about making money. 36 00:04:18,508 --> 00:04:23,471 Your interest has to be in bringing some of these companies to justice. 37 00:04:49,455 --> 00:04:52,083 Can you talk about the rise of the company? 38 00:04:52,166 --> 00:04:53,543 Sure, I can do this really well, 39 00:04:53,626 --> 00:04:55,878 because I have been fighting the company for decades. 40 00:04:56,462 --> 00:05:02,885 Uh, Valeant's forbearer or its origin was a company called Biovail, 41 00:05:02,969 --> 00:05:06,014 which is a corporate clogged toilet based in Canada. 42 00:05:06,097 --> 00:05:07,598 We've got a merger in medicine... 43 00:05:07,682 --> 00:05:11,602 In 2010, there was a sort of a merger of equals 44 00:05:11,686 --> 00:05:13,229 with Valeant Pharmaceutical. 45 00:05:13,313 --> 00:05:16,357 Valeant planted a foreign flag to save money 46 00:05:16,441 --> 00:05:18,484 as a way to skip paying taxes stateside. 47 00:05:18,568 --> 00:05:23,197 And a guy named Mike Pearson took over the remaining company. 48 00:05:23,698 --> 00:05:25,575 Our job is to create shareholder value. 49 00:05:25,700 --> 00:05:28,953 And, uh, so people shouldn't be afraid of... 50 00:05:29,037 --> 00:05:33,041 of anything that happens that helps them create shareholder value. 51 00:05:33,124 --> 00:05:34,417 That's our job. 52 00:05:37,795 --> 00:05:39,898 When Mike Pearson stepped in to run Valeant, 53 00:05:39,922 --> 00:05:42,633 its stock was maybe less than $15 a share. 54 00:05:42,717 --> 00:05:47,263 But at its peak, it hit $262 a share. 55 00:05:47,805 --> 00:05:50,725 It was an incredible, incredible ride. 56 00:05:50,808 --> 00:05:55,063 One of the greatest money-making, uh, opportunities Wall Street has ever seen. 57 00:05:55,146 --> 00:05:58,858 Valeant Pharmaceuticals is continuing its shopping spree, 58 00:05:58,941 --> 00:06:01,611 announcing that it's to buy orphan drug maker Aton Pharma. 59 00:06:01,694 --> 00:06:04,530 Billion-dollar takeover deal in the pharmaceutical industry. 60 00:06:04,614 --> 00:06:09,410 Canada's Valeant is buying Medicis Pharmaceutical for $2.6 billion in cash. 61 00:06:09,494 --> 00:06:11,162 That is about $44 a share. 62 00:06:11,245 --> 00:06:12,246 Over to you, Seema. 63 00:06:12,330 --> 00:06:16,501 Maria, Valeant Pharmaceuticals acquiring Bausch and Lomb for $8.7 billion. 64 00:06:16,584 --> 00:06:18,187 That was a big move in the health-care scene. 65 00:06:18,211 --> 00:06:20,588 Our strategy is a pretty simple one. 66 00:06:20,671 --> 00:06:25,927 Uh, since I joined the company three plus years ago, we've made 22 acquisitions. 67 00:06:26,010 --> 00:06:29,013 We'd like to do this still, but if not, we'll do something else. 68 00:06:36,729 --> 00:06:41,692 Valeant Pharmaceuticals is just simply hoovering up companies. 69 00:06:41,776 --> 00:06:46,572 They're like a vacuum sucking up companies out of the public markets. 70 00:06:46,656 --> 00:06:50,368 At one point, I'd tracked that they had bought 110 companies. 71 00:06:54,747 --> 00:06:58,584 For a while, the entire pharmaceutical industry was terrorized by 72 00:06:58,668 --> 00:07:00,586 and terrified of Valeant, 73 00:07:00,670 --> 00:07:05,299 because they were the company that was getting all of Wall Street's admiration. 74 00:07:05,383 --> 00:07:08,803 This was the hot stock and supposedly these guys were the ones 75 00:07:08,886 --> 00:07:12,598 who had figured out how the pharmaceutical industry was supposed to work. 76 00:07:12,682 --> 00:07:14,767 Valeant, Valeant, Valeant, Valeant. 77 00:07:30,575 --> 00:07:32,335 On Wall Street, there's smart and dumb money. 78 00:07:33,494 --> 00:07:36,414 The smart money are the premier hedge funds, 79 00:07:36,914 --> 00:07:38,833 some of the best investors of our time. 80 00:07:39,667 --> 00:07:44,213 From the Sequoia Fund, which was run by a protégé of Warren Buffett's, 81 00:07:44,297 --> 00:07:46,757 to Bill Ackman, whose hedge fund Pershing Square 82 00:07:46,841 --> 00:07:50,678 was one of the biggest, most successful hedge funds out there, 83 00:07:50,761 --> 00:07:51,762 to ValueAct. 84 00:07:51,846 --> 00:07:56,809 This fund that is always below the radar, but is regarded as being very smart. 85 00:07:57,310 --> 00:07:59,145 All of these guys were in Valeant. 86 00:08:00,021 --> 00:08:04,525 We originated with Mike this strategy of rolling up, 87 00:08:04,609 --> 00:08:07,236 to use your words, consolidating the pharmaceutical industry. 88 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,448 And Mike has proven that the execution is there. 89 00:08:13,951 --> 00:08:17,955 They saw a CEO who promised a revolutionary strategy 90 00:08:18,039 --> 00:08:22,502 that was smarter than what everybody else in the pharmaceutical industry was doing. 91 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,546 It was music to the ears of people on Wall Street, 92 00:08:25,630 --> 00:08:28,466 who tend to think they're smarter than everybody else. 93 00:08:28,549 --> 00:08:31,636 So, if somebody markets themselves as smarter than everybody else, 94 00:08:31,719 --> 00:08:34,096 wow, it's like meets like. 95 00:08:51,405 --> 00:08:54,700 I think, to look at Valeant, you had to be an outsider. 96 00:08:55,159 --> 00:08:57,703 If you're in the Wall Street machine, 97 00:08:57,787 --> 00:09:00,873 you just wanted their share price to go up and up and up. 98 00:09:02,250 --> 00:09:05,878 But on the other hand was this small minority of dissenters 99 00:09:05,962 --> 00:09:07,171 called short sellers. 100 00:09:07,255 --> 00:09:11,175 Two thirds of the broader global financial community 101 00:09:11,259 --> 00:09:13,511 views them as... 102 00:09:13,594 --> 00:09:16,931 loosely affiliated with, let's say, ISIS/Al-Qaeda. 103 00:09:19,392 --> 00:09:23,437 For example, there is this colorful guy out in Beverly Hills, 104 00:09:23,521 --> 00:09:25,314 guy named Andrew Left. 105 00:09:26,691 --> 00:09:29,694 In simplest terms, what is short selling? 106 00:09:30,361 --> 00:09:31,404 Oh, boy. 107 00:09:32,113 --> 00:09:34,907 It's amazing 'cause every day the stock market opens. 108 00:09:36,909 --> 00:09:41,497 So every day, any stock has an equal chance of going up or down. 109 00:09:42,206 --> 00:09:45,084 But everybody only thinks stocks can go up. 110 00:09:45,918 --> 00:09:50,172 If 90% of America is looking at what stock's gonna go up the next day, 111 00:09:50,256 --> 00:09:52,592 what if I just flip that thought and say, 112 00:09:52,675 --> 00:09:55,886 "Why don't I try to make a living," a tough one at that, 113 00:09:55,970 --> 00:09:58,598 "saying what stocks are gonna go down tomorrow?" 114 00:10:03,561 --> 00:10:06,814 There are a lot of very, very smart people on Wall Street, 115 00:10:08,107 --> 00:10:13,112 but Fahmi Quadir, she is just a next-level intelligent person. 116 00:10:14,447 --> 00:10:18,909 To use the chess analogy, she saw three to four moves ahead on Valeant. 117 00:10:20,620 --> 00:10:22,371 No company is telling you 118 00:10:22,455 --> 00:10:24,206 why you should short their stock. 119 00:10:24,707 --> 00:10:28,961 Every source of information, everything that the company tells you, 120 00:10:29,045 --> 00:10:34,425 everything you hear on CNBC is largely people telling you to buy a stock. 121 00:10:34,925 --> 00:10:39,347 So to go short, you need to go out there and find the information on your own. 122 00:10:39,847 --> 00:10:44,477 Oh, I forgot one other. Uh, John Hempton in Australia. 123 00:10:46,437 --> 00:10:49,982 We like to find people who are cheating other people. 124 00:10:50,066 --> 00:10:50,941 Why? 125 00:10:51,025 --> 00:10:55,780 Because sometimes they give you trading opportunities that are oblique. 126 00:10:55,863 --> 00:10:58,282 For instance, this highly reputable-looking 127 00:10:58,366 --> 00:11:00,284 pharmaceutical company called Valeant, 128 00:11:00,368 --> 00:11:03,079 was in reality a house of cards, 129 00:11:03,162 --> 00:11:05,665 with people cheating other people left, right and center. 130 00:11:06,832 --> 00:11:10,544 We figured that, at some stage, all of this cheating would come undone, 131 00:11:10,628 --> 00:11:13,297 and the Valeant stock would go down a long, long way. 132 00:11:15,174 --> 00:11:16,884 We follow bad people in markets, 133 00:11:16,967 --> 00:11:20,262 we're very good at picking apart bad accounts, 134 00:11:20,346 --> 00:11:21,555 and we short-sell them. 135 00:11:21,639 --> 00:11:24,517 And that means we make a profit when stocks go down. 136 00:11:26,685 --> 00:11:29,605 Fahmi, Andrew Left, maybe Hempton, 137 00:11:29,688 --> 00:11:32,525 maybe seven people in the world are questioning, 138 00:11:32,608 --> 00:11:34,318 "This emperor has no clothes." 139 00:11:35,361 --> 00:11:38,614 If you haven't noticed about us, we're mostly outsiders. 140 00:11:38,697 --> 00:11:42,618 We didn't need to believe the bullshit. 141 00:11:47,289 --> 00:11:50,501 Fahmi and I chatted maybe 20 times, 142 00:11:50,584 --> 00:11:52,837 and of all the people I spoke to, 143 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,298 she was the person that had the most original observations. 144 00:11:59,301 --> 00:12:03,013 I never, in my life, thought I would be a short seller. 145 00:12:03,097 --> 00:12:05,766 I was just planning to take a gap year 146 00:12:05,850 --> 00:12:09,061 and then start my PhD in algebraic topology. 147 00:12:09,145 --> 00:12:11,355 Um, but that never happened. 148 00:12:12,189 --> 00:12:14,817 I got pulled into Big Pharma consulting. 149 00:12:16,068 --> 00:12:19,321 And then a famous short seller saw the way I thought 150 00:12:19,405 --> 00:12:23,367 and the kinds of lengths I would go to conduct my research. 151 00:12:23,868 --> 00:12:27,163 He saw that I was a short seller before I even knew it. 152 00:12:28,998 --> 00:12:33,169 The thing is, with Valeant, no one wanted to hear the short side of the story. 153 00:12:33,252 --> 00:12:37,631 It was all about the magical numbers that Valeant was putting out. 154 00:12:37,715 --> 00:12:43,137 These non-GAAP adjusted, EBITDA metrics, pro forma cash, EPS, et cetera. 155 00:12:43,220 --> 00:12:45,306 And that's all investors wanted to hear about. 156 00:13:12,917 --> 00:13:16,837 Valeant Pharmaceuticals' main source of growth isn't new drugs. 157 00:13:16,921 --> 00:13:19,798 It's been growing revenue by buying out smaller companies. 158 00:13:19,882 --> 00:13:22,551 Mike, it's all about acquisitions, why? 159 00:13:22,635 --> 00:13:26,180 We've looked at the return on research and development in total. 160 00:13:26,263 --> 00:13:30,434 Um, for the last decade or so, it has not been positive for the industry. 161 00:13:30,518 --> 00:13:34,563 And, um, so we think a much better use of our capital 162 00:13:34,647 --> 00:13:36,815 is to, uh, buy products that are approved, 163 00:13:36,899 --> 00:13:40,486 buy companies that have approved products, and grow that way. 164 00:13:40,569 --> 00:13:44,698 Pearson was a real skeptic of the money that most pharmaceutical companies spend 165 00:13:44,782 --> 00:13:45,866 developing new drugs. 166 00:13:46,825 --> 00:13:49,995 He thought that most of those dollars were wasted. They weren't efficient. 167 00:13:50,079 --> 00:13:52,706 There were better ways to run a pharmaceutical company 168 00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:56,710 much more efficiently in order to make more money for its shareholders. 169 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,674 You might go for three or four years running a pharmaceutical company 170 00:14:01,757 --> 00:14:03,008 and not have any breakthroughs. 171 00:14:03,092 --> 00:14:06,470 And if you're someone who's a McKinsey analyst or a hedge funder, 172 00:14:06,554 --> 00:14:08,847 you might say, "Waste of money," and throw your hands up. 173 00:14:08,931 --> 00:14:11,684 But if you're a scientist, you understand it's just time. 174 00:14:11,767 --> 00:14:15,312 It's time, data and understanding, and you're gonna find it. 175 00:14:15,396 --> 00:14:17,314 If you slash that research and development, 176 00:14:17,398 --> 00:14:20,109 that all goes to the bottom line. It's all profitability. 177 00:14:21,318 --> 00:14:23,904 They bought over 100 companies. 178 00:14:23,988 --> 00:14:26,657 Their formula was relatively simple. 179 00:14:26,740 --> 00:14:30,369 "We will consolidate the accounting, we will consolidate the sales force, 180 00:14:30,452 --> 00:14:32,037 and we won't do science." 181 00:14:32,663 --> 00:14:34,540 And the formula seemed to work. 182 00:14:35,624 --> 00:14:39,461 People had literally made billions of dollars by backing Mike. 183 00:14:40,546 --> 00:14:42,882 They wanted to tell Wall Street that, 184 00:14:42,965 --> 00:14:45,092 "All this money we make, that belongs to you." 185 00:14:45,175 --> 00:14:49,013 But this was a company that pretended to be cheap, 186 00:14:49,763 --> 00:14:53,183 but owned the most expensive corporate jets you could find. 187 00:14:56,937 --> 00:14:59,189 They went and bought a Gulfstream 650. 188 00:15:00,274 --> 00:15:04,278 This is a corporate jet that can fly nonstop from New York to China. 189 00:15:04,904 --> 00:15:07,698 Valeant had a 650. What does that say to you? 190 00:15:08,616 --> 00:15:10,075 They like to fly in style. 191 00:15:10,576 --> 00:15:11,869 It's the biggest... 192 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,916 I don't even wanna say "the biggest swinging dick you can have," 193 00:15:16,999 --> 00:15:18,417 but that's essentially what it is. 194 00:15:21,754 --> 00:15:25,299 Mike Pearson had this reputation of spending most of his time 195 00:15:25,382 --> 00:15:30,220 just talking to investors, taking them on his Gulfstream 650, 196 00:15:30,304 --> 00:15:32,890 flying them out to Duke basketball games. 197 00:15:33,891 --> 00:15:36,852 What you would hear on the street is, you know, 198 00:15:36,936 --> 00:15:40,230 "Oh, don't worry about the balance sheet, don't worry about the fundamentals. 199 00:15:40,314 --> 00:15:41,607 Just talk to Mike." 200 00:15:43,317 --> 00:15:46,904 People thought that Pearson was infallible. 201 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,408 They failed to do basic research on what is Valeant. 202 00:15:53,535 --> 00:15:57,498 But with short bets, it's always wise to do your research first. 203 00:15:58,666 --> 00:16:04,296 I started by looking at the entire history of Valeant's prescription products. 204 00:16:06,256 --> 00:16:08,926 What Valeant was doing after it acquired these businesses 205 00:16:09,009 --> 00:16:14,306 was increasing the prices exponentially and then the sales volumes, 206 00:16:14,390 --> 00:16:17,559 so the patients taking the drug would substantially decline, 207 00:16:17,643 --> 00:16:21,355 but the dollars that Valeant's generating are going up. 208 00:16:23,816 --> 00:16:29,530 So, this is my nighttime reading material 209 00:16:29,613 --> 00:16:31,198 for the past two years. 210 00:16:31,615 --> 00:16:34,910 Some people like to read Buffett biographies, 211 00:16:34,994 --> 00:16:37,413 some like to read Fifty Shades of Grey, 212 00:16:37,496 --> 00:16:40,040 but I spent the last two years of my life 213 00:16:40,124 --> 00:16:44,003 reading every single publicly available document on Valeant Pharmaceuticals. 214 00:16:44,962 --> 00:16:50,384 This is Valeant's investor day at the end of 2012. 215 00:16:50,467 --> 00:16:53,554 They were really ramping up with their acquisitions 216 00:16:53,637 --> 00:16:55,973 and maximizing their value on those products 217 00:16:56,056 --> 00:17:01,353 through co-pay assistance, patient assistance and increasing price. 218 00:17:06,734 --> 00:17:10,821 Health care is just a certain field where, if you're committing fraud, 219 00:17:10,904 --> 00:17:13,323 you're not just committing fraud against your shareholders, 220 00:17:13,407 --> 00:17:15,487 you're potentially committing fraud against patients. 221 00:17:29,006 --> 00:17:30,758 When did you and your wife meet? 222 00:17:30,841 --> 00:17:33,719 In the late '80s, in Chicago, through work. 223 00:17:34,887 --> 00:17:38,015 What was it like when she told you she had Wilson's disease? 224 00:17:38,098 --> 00:17:39,349 What did you think at the time? 225 00:17:40,059 --> 00:17:41,602 I didn't think anything about it. 226 00:17:41,685 --> 00:17:46,899 She was taking a simple drug four times a day and she was fine. 227 00:17:47,816 --> 00:17:52,321 Wilson's disease is simply the inability to process copper. 228 00:17:52,821 --> 00:17:57,034 It builds up and, ultimately, it poisons you through your liver. 229 00:17:57,117 --> 00:17:59,453 About one in 30,000 people have it. 230 00:18:02,039 --> 00:18:04,750 The medication I take for Wilson's is Syprine. 231 00:18:06,418 --> 00:18:10,047 Can you talk to us about why it's important for you to be anonymous? 232 00:18:12,633 --> 00:18:14,760 Um... 233 00:18:18,180 --> 00:18:21,725 We had spent maybe $30 a month 234 00:18:21,809 --> 00:18:24,186 and that would come out of our flexible savings. 235 00:18:24,269 --> 00:18:27,523 You just paid it, took the drug and you went on. 236 00:18:27,606 --> 00:18:30,484 And then all of a sudden, right after Christmas, 237 00:18:30,567 --> 00:18:31,860 she goes to Walgreens, 238 00:18:33,070 --> 00:18:37,908 and, uh, she calls me and says they want $20,000 239 00:18:39,076 --> 00:18:40,744 for her drug. 240 00:18:40,828 --> 00:18:43,028 "This can't be my drug. This can't be happening. 241 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:44,680 I've been on this medication for years." 242 00:18:44,706 --> 00:18:46,458 It just kept going up and up and up. 243 00:18:46,542 --> 00:18:49,837 Today, it's $200-plus per tablet. 244 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,048 What's the math on that, $200 per tablet? 245 00:18:53,132 --> 00:18:57,344 It's about, uh, $289,000 a year. 246 00:18:59,346 --> 00:19:04,059 We probably have about $80,000 worth of it in our refrigerator today. 247 00:19:05,686 --> 00:19:09,064 What would happen if you stop taking the medication? 248 00:19:11,150 --> 00:19:12,150 I'd die. 249 00:19:13,068 --> 00:19:16,029 And you're insulated from the cost, until you're not. 250 00:19:16,113 --> 00:19:17,739 Until you lose your job. 251 00:19:17,823 --> 00:19:19,992 Until you find that you can't get health insurance 252 00:19:20,075 --> 00:19:22,744 because the cost of your medicine is so exorbitant. 253 00:19:22,828 --> 00:19:25,831 Until it wipes out your family because you have to pay for it, 254 00:19:25,914 --> 00:19:27,791 because you're gonna die if you don't. 255 00:19:31,712 --> 00:19:35,966 She worries that if her company knew that her insurance was so costly, 256 00:19:36,049 --> 00:19:38,177 that she would be targeted for layoff. 257 00:19:38,677 --> 00:19:40,179 And if she gets laid off, 258 00:19:40,262 --> 00:19:42,182 she's gonna have a hard time finding another job, 259 00:19:42,222 --> 00:19:45,142 given her age and healthcare issues. 260 00:19:46,101 --> 00:19:49,146 And if she has to pay for her medicine herself, 261 00:19:49,229 --> 00:19:51,231 they'll be bankrupt, within a few years. 262 00:19:51,940 --> 00:19:55,861 I decided I didn't wanna show my face as I work through all of that. 263 00:19:56,653 --> 00:19:59,823 Everybody runs scared from these drug companies. 264 00:20:00,741 --> 00:20:02,201 Because the drug companies 265 00:20:02,284 --> 00:20:07,206 have somehow convinced patients and the advocacy groups, 266 00:20:07,289 --> 00:20:10,709 "If you don't let us have our way, we'll just not make the drug." 267 00:20:13,795 --> 00:20:19,092 It's really personal and to see such greed and avarice go unchecked, 268 00:20:19,927 --> 00:20:21,845 I think was maddening to him. 269 00:20:21,929 --> 00:20:25,641 And if you know John, he can't stand by and watch it. 270 00:20:28,101 --> 00:20:31,772 You start to try and figure out what's going on. 271 00:20:33,065 --> 00:20:36,026 For 20 years, Merck sold it for about a dollar a tablet. 272 00:20:36,652 --> 00:20:41,490 In about 2007, we noticed that the price of the drug had doubled. 273 00:20:41,573 --> 00:20:45,118 Merck put it into a company called Aton. 274 00:20:45,202 --> 00:20:48,538 Three years later, Valeant acquired Aton. 275 00:20:48,622 --> 00:20:52,834 And that's when the price really started to accelerate. 276 00:20:55,754 --> 00:21:00,008 Syprine had risen to be one of their top 30 drugs. 277 00:21:00,092 --> 00:21:03,262 Well, to be a top 30 drug, it kinda had to have some volume, 278 00:21:03,679 --> 00:21:06,974 and we knew that this didn't have volume. So it was all price. 279 00:21:09,226 --> 00:21:11,037 If you're willing to take the price of a drug 280 00:21:11,061 --> 00:21:12,771 that was selling for a dollar a pill 281 00:21:12,854 --> 00:21:15,023 and boost it to $300,000 a year, 282 00:21:15,399 --> 00:21:18,110 if you've figured out that lever and you're willing to use it... 283 00:21:18,193 --> 00:21:20,112 Well, you've got a gusher. 284 00:21:20,445 --> 00:21:23,949 I mean, you really have found the ability to turn straw into gold. 285 00:21:45,595 --> 00:21:47,931 Those in finance, those on Wall Street, 286 00:21:48,015 --> 00:21:50,892 you know, the talking heads that came on CNBC, 287 00:21:50,976 --> 00:21:55,647 they loved Valeant because it functioned as if it was a hedge fund. 288 00:21:56,732 --> 00:21:57,733 Bill Ackman is here, 289 00:21:57,816 --> 00:22:00,444 he is the CEO and founder of Pershing Square Capital Management. 290 00:22:00,527 --> 00:22:03,405 It currently has nearly $6 billion under management. 291 00:22:03,488 --> 00:22:05,157 You were a very good short seller. 292 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,284 Uh, occasionally, we got it right. 293 00:22:07,367 --> 00:22:10,245 - You were a very good short seller. - Occ--- 294 00:22:10,329 --> 00:22:12,331 Not always. It's a difficult business. 295 00:22:12,414 --> 00:22:17,127 Bill Ackman is a smart, savvy businessman. 296 00:22:17,210 --> 00:22:19,296 I think he's opportunistic, 297 00:22:19,379 --> 00:22:23,342 and I mean that not in a negative way, but in a positive way. 298 00:22:23,425 --> 00:22:25,677 This is a time of opportunity for people with money. 299 00:22:25,761 --> 00:22:26,762 Absolutely. 300 00:22:28,346 --> 00:22:30,766 It's the single best time in my career to invest. 301 00:22:30,849 --> 00:22:32,225 - To invest money? - Yes. 302 00:22:33,185 --> 00:22:35,771 I think Bill is impressed with Valeant's results, 303 00:22:35,854 --> 00:22:38,732 and I think Mike Pearson was an impressive guy 304 00:22:38,815 --> 00:22:41,026 from a financial perspective. 305 00:22:41,109 --> 00:22:42,277 I think Bill Ackman 306 00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:45,947 was in the business of investing money to make money. 307 00:22:52,537 --> 00:22:58,502 Mike Pearson's goal was to be a top five pharmaceutical company by 2016. 308 00:22:58,585 --> 00:23:00,504 And the only way they could really do that 309 00:23:00,587 --> 00:23:02,464 was to buy something even bigger than Valeant. 310 00:23:03,507 --> 00:23:06,551 Allergan was an obvious choice. 311 00:23:07,969 --> 00:23:10,305 Allergan is, in a way, the anti-Valeant. 312 00:23:10,388 --> 00:23:12,849 It's an incredibly successful company, 313 00:23:12,933 --> 00:23:15,310 mainly that specialized in cosmetic products. 314 00:23:15,393 --> 00:23:18,271 Any woman who's used Botox would know what Allergan is 315 00:23:18,355 --> 00:23:20,440 because Allergan was the inventor of Botox. 316 00:23:20,524 --> 00:23:22,567 Whatever you think of Botox, it was an invention 317 00:23:22,651 --> 00:23:24,778 and an incredibly successful one at that. 318 00:23:24,861 --> 00:23:26,363 I'm not the Dalai Lama. 319 00:23:26,446 --> 00:23:29,116 Somebody says, "Oh, Dolly, you always just look so happy." 320 00:23:29,199 --> 00:23:32,661 I say, "That's the Botox." So... 321 00:23:32,744 --> 00:23:35,372 Everything was going along just fine. 322 00:23:35,997 --> 00:23:38,500 And here came a company, uh, 323 00:23:38,583 --> 00:23:42,295 really hell-bent on short-term profit and greed. 324 00:23:42,379 --> 00:23:43,672 Enter Valeant. 325 00:23:45,340 --> 00:23:47,509 Please welcome J. Michael Pearson, 326 00:23:47,592 --> 00:23:49,928 chairman and CEO of Valeant. 327 00:23:50,011 --> 00:23:52,097 It did feel a little like Pearl Harbor. 328 00:23:52,180 --> 00:23:55,100 An explosion of M&A action in pharma. 329 00:23:55,183 --> 00:23:58,186 That is our big story. We've got every angle covered for you. 330 00:23:58,270 --> 00:23:59,688 Top-gun activist Bill Ackman 331 00:23:59,771 --> 00:24:02,357 teams up with Valeant, Canadian drug company, 332 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,860 to bid for the Botox maker Allergan. 333 00:24:04,943 --> 00:24:07,362 We call it Pharmapalooza. What does it mean for you? 334 00:24:07,445 --> 00:24:09,239 This, folks, is Power Lunch, 335 00:24:09,322 --> 00:24:11,992 and this, Sue, is your Power Lunch on drugs. 336 00:24:13,618 --> 00:24:16,329 Uh, so, why does this make sense? 337 00:24:16,413 --> 00:24:18,099 Valeant didn't have the money to buy Allergan. 338 00:24:18,123 --> 00:24:19,958 So just briefly on Pershing Square... 339 00:24:20,041 --> 00:24:21,894 And so they teamed up with Bill Ackman, 340 00:24:21,918 --> 00:24:25,088 who quietly accumulated the stake in Allergan. 341 00:24:25,172 --> 00:24:27,299 And then tried to, basically, 342 00:24:27,382 --> 00:24:30,468 sway the rest of Allergan shareholders to go with Valeant. 343 00:24:30,552 --> 00:24:33,889 The outsider. That will be the theme... 344 00:24:34,389 --> 00:24:37,642 Bill, who's suave and tall, perfectly dressed, 345 00:24:37,726 --> 00:24:40,187 with this shock of white hair, and very healthy, 346 00:24:40,270 --> 00:24:43,690 and then Mike, who's sort of gruff and a little overweight 347 00:24:43,773 --> 00:24:46,401 and kind of slovenly, do this presentation. 348 00:24:46,484 --> 00:24:50,447 In terms of historically, we've grown our business about 55% a year. 349 00:24:50,530 --> 00:24:54,242 Uh, they've grown their businesses in the emerging markets, about 11% a year. 350 00:24:54,326 --> 00:25:00,832 Both Bill Ackman and Mike Pearson were masters in use of fact, 351 00:25:00,916 --> 00:25:06,713 to lead to, in my humble view, erroneous and misleading conclusions. 352 00:25:06,796 --> 00:25:10,133 In the R&D number, you'll see 1.3 minus 900... 353 00:25:10,217 --> 00:25:16,139 That, uh, Allergan's R&D efforts, uh, hadn't been good. 354 00:25:16,223 --> 00:25:17,599 And that we'd wasted money. 355 00:25:22,479 --> 00:25:25,523 Allergan was functioning like a proper pharmaceutical company. 356 00:25:26,858 --> 00:25:29,903 It had a strong focus on R&D. 357 00:25:30,403 --> 00:25:33,949 Mike Pearson talks a lot about how R&D is so inefficient 358 00:25:34,032 --> 00:25:36,076 and he doesn't want to spend money on it. 359 00:25:36,159 --> 00:25:39,663 You know, he says, "Bet on management, not on science." 360 00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:42,082 Our operating committee... 361 00:25:42,165 --> 00:25:44,876 From, uh, Bill Ackman's perspective, 362 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,837 I think he was, uh, very enamored, 363 00:25:47,921 --> 00:25:54,552 and maybe I could use the word beguiled, uh, by, um, Mike Pearson's pitches. 364 00:25:55,095 --> 00:26:01,184 Our job, Howard and mine, and Ari's job is to create value for our shareholders. 365 00:26:01,268 --> 00:26:04,187 I found the first pharmaceutical CEO that I could actually, 366 00:26:04,271 --> 00:26:06,481 "Hey, I could think about investing in this business." 367 00:26:06,564 --> 00:26:09,567 And this is a business that has an incredible story. 368 00:26:10,402 --> 00:26:12,162 There's a book called The Outsiders 369 00:26:12,195 --> 00:26:14,364 that became, sort of, cult reading on Wall Street, 370 00:26:14,447 --> 00:26:17,951 and it celebrates CEOs who are mavericks in their industry. 371 00:26:18,034 --> 00:26:20,328 So, we think the only problem with the book 372 00:26:20,412 --> 00:26:21,764 is they left Mike off the book, 373 00:26:21,788 --> 00:26:24,082 so he'll be, I guess, in the second edition. 374 00:26:24,165 --> 00:26:25,726 Bill thought that in Mike Pearson, 375 00:26:25,750 --> 00:26:27,335 he had found another outsider 376 00:26:27,419 --> 00:26:29,838 who was every bit as legendary 377 00:26:29,921 --> 00:26:33,091 as the people who are celebrated in this book. 378 00:26:33,174 --> 00:26:35,552 There are copies of the book as our gift to you. 379 00:26:35,635 --> 00:26:36,636 Encourage you to read it. 380 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,306 It seems in a weird way to me 381 00:26:39,389 --> 00:26:42,267 that Bill Ackman developed a huge crush on Mike Pearson. 382 00:26:42,767 --> 00:26:44,060 Um... 383 00:26:44,561 --> 00:26:46,813 Why did you feel it necessary 384 00:26:46,896 --> 00:26:50,608 to team up with Bill, as charming as he is? 385 00:26:51,860 --> 00:26:54,654 He's charming? 386 00:26:54,738 --> 00:26:57,073 He was willing to invest $4 billion in us. 387 00:26:57,574 --> 00:26:59,576 Um, or in this transaction. 388 00:27:00,201 --> 00:27:03,747 I also think that he has 389 00:27:04,456 --> 00:27:06,708 real credibility in terms of being a smart investor. 390 00:27:07,334 --> 00:27:11,087 If Allergan does not want to negotiate with you, 391 00:27:11,171 --> 00:27:12,547 uh, what are the next steps? 392 00:27:12,630 --> 00:27:15,925 Well, maybe we should ask the 10% owner of Allergan. 393 00:27:17,135 --> 00:27:20,680 So what we do for a living, is we buy stakes in companies, uh, 394 00:27:20,764 --> 00:27:24,768 and we work with them to help them do the right thing for shareholders. 395 00:27:24,851 --> 00:27:26,353 And that's what we're gonna do here. 396 00:27:27,437 --> 00:27:29,689 We have all kinds of ways of making that happen. 397 00:27:31,191 --> 00:27:35,320 What Ackman basically did was quietly acquire this stake in Allergan 398 00:27:35,403 --> 00:27:39,074 in order to help Valeant with its takeover attempt. 399 00:27:39,157 --> 00:27:41,117 And you look at that on the outside and you think, 400 00:27:41,159 --> 00:27:43,495 "That's got to be insider trading. That can't be legal." 401 00:27:43,578 --> 00:27:46,206 You're actually permitted to trade on inside information 402 00:27:46,289 --> 00:27:49,125 as long as you didn't receive the information 403 00:27:49,209 --> 00:27:50,126 from someone who's breached... 404 00:27:50,210 --> 00:27:51,878 Even at the time, people said, 405 00:27:51,961 --> 00:27:53,922 "Well, I guess he's checked the letter of the law, 406 00:27:54,005 --> 00:27:55,715 but this doesn't smell right to us." 407 00:27:55,799 --> 00:28:00,970 So it was a controversial company trying to take over a beloved company 408 00:28:01,054 --> 00:28:04,974 using incredibly controversial tactics. The whole thing was ugly. 409 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,062 We really question 410 00:28:09,145 --> 00:28:12,941 the sustainability of the Valeant business model in its entirety. 411 00:28:13,024 --> 00:28:16,736 They are proposing cutting R&D 90%. 412 00:28:16,820 --> 00:28:22,075 We personally take the view that is value destruction, not creation. 413 00:28:22,158 --> 00:28:25,036 To us, it was very clear that their approach 414 00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:27,831 was, uh, in plain English, "asset stripping." 415 00:28:28,581 --> 00:28:31,209 They launched this devastating counterattack. 416 00:28:31,292 --> 00:28:32,919 Basically calling Valeant a fraud. 417 00:28:33,711 --> 00:28:37,632 They even compared it to Tyco, which was a notorious 1990s company 418 00:28:37,715 --> 00:28:40,051 where the CEO ended up going to prison. 419 00:28:41,177 --> 00:28:43,888 What's going on at Allergan, I think is unprecedented. 420 00:28:43,972 --> 00:28:47,767 It's completely inappropriate, possibly illegal. 421 00:28:47,851 --> 00:28:51,730 Having Bill, um, out there in the public, you know, he doesn't give up. 422 00:28:52,230 --> 00:28:54,350 Uh, we don't give up either. So, I think that helps... 423 00:28:54,399 --> 00:28:58,111 Most people, at least quietly, were on Allergan's side. 424 00:28:58,194 --> 00:28:59,696 A prominent Wall Streeter said to me, 425 00:28:59,779 --> 00:29:02,031 "It's like the dirty drunk attacking your beloved uncle." 426 00:29:02,866 --> 00:29:05,285 The scuttlebutt was that, if you were gonna sell, 427 00:29:05,368 --> 00:29:07,954 it was gonna be to anybody else but Valeant. Is that right? 428 00:29:08,037 --> 00:29:11,916 Really, the prime objective was to prevent Valeant 429 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,836 from stealing us at a ridiculously low price. 430 00:29:14,919 --> 00:29:17,297 We had a big fight on our hands. 431 00:29:17,380 --> 00:29:21,801 But for Allergan, there is a good and happy end to this whole tale. 432 00:29:24,053 --> 00:29:26,723 Allergan found another bidder, a company called Actavis, 433 00:29:26,806 --> 00:29:31,019 and acquired it for a higher price than Valeant was willing or able to pay. 434 00:29:34,105 --> 00:29:36,191 All of a sudden, Valeant was front page news. 435 00:29:36,274 --> 00:29:38,693 And with the attention came scrutiny. 436 00:29:38,777 --> 00:29:40,278 Why are you short? 437 00:29:40,361 --> 00:29:43,156 Jim Chanos, who's a very well-known short seller, 438 00:29:43,239 --> 00:29:46,034 started to talk about all the flaws in Valeant's business model. 439 00:29:47,202 --> 00:29:49,829 Chanos forwards all his work to Bill Ackman and says, 440 00:29:49,913 --> 00:29:53,625 "You're making a mistake on this company. I think it's got real problems." 441 00:29:53,708 --> 00:29:56,127 And unfortunately, Jim does not have Valeant right. 442 00:29:58,046 --> 00:30:01,090 Bill Ackman would have walked away from the Allergan deal 443 00:30:01,174 --> 00:30:02,425 with a great deal of money 444 00:30:02,509 --> 00:30:06,429 because Allergan's stock price went up quite a bit during this exercise. 445 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,307 But he didn't walk away. 446 00:30:09,390 --> 00:30:11,976 Instead, he took all that money and then some 447 00:30:12,060 --> 00:30:14,604 and acquired a huge stake in Valeant. 448 00:30:15,647 --> 00:30:19,317 He didn't seem to recognize what other people saw so clearly. 449 00:30:20,777 --> 00:30:22,946 Bill is a funny guy. 450 00:30:23,029 --> 00:30:25,114 I think there's a Wall Street expression for this. 451 00:30:25,198 --> 00:30:27,784 It's, um, "Often wrong, never in doubt." 452 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,663 And people who are often wrong, never in doubt, 453 00:30:31,746 --> 00:30:34,499 are very good to trade against. 454 00:30:34,582 --> 00:30:36,000 They will double up, 455 00:30:36,084 --> 00:30:39,671 they have large amounts of money to bet when they're wrong, 456 00:30:39,754 --> 00:30:41,965 and Bill truly believes it. 457 00:30:47,387 --> 00:30:49,973 The American system takes our best and brightest people, 458 00:30:50,056 --> 00:30:52,559 of which Bill Ackman is certainly a member. 459 00:30:52,642 --> 00:30:56,896 And they get paid outlandish sums to look the other way. 460 00:30:58,398 --> 00:31:00,525 If you're Bill Ackman or other people like him, 461 00:31:00,608 --> 00:31:02,318 they invent rationalizations around it. 462 00:31:05,238 --> 00:31:07,156 These big-name hedge fund managers 463 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,660 are just as capable of cognitive dissonance as everybody else. 464 00:31:11,703 --> 00:31:13,183 The skeptics came out of the woodwork 465 00:31:13,246 --> 00:31:16,291 around the time of the Allergan bid in 2014, 466 00:31:16,374 --> 00:31:19,127 and for the next year or so they couldn't have looked more wrong 467 00:31:19,210 --> 00:31:22,130 as Valeant stock just went higher and higher and higher. 468 00:31:23,298 --> 00:31:25,550 You came out of the Allergan fight a loser. 469 00:31:25,633 --> 00:31:29,345 But there are those who'll say, this company is only built to acquire. 470 00:31:29,429 --> 00:31:31,639 I don't think we were a loser. We were disciplined. 471 00:31:31,723 --> 00:31:33,850 A lot of analysts are expecting some more M&A. 472 00:31:33,933 --> 00:31:36,813 That's your business model. Can we expect more big M&A from you guys? 473 00:31:36,853 --> 00:31:39,314 We'll absolutely start getting back in M&A. 474 00:31:39,397 --> 00:31:43,359 Valeant is now buying bankrupt cancer vaccine maker Dendreon. 475 00:31:43,443 --> 00:31:46,112 It is the deal of the day, if not one of the biggest of the year. 476 00:31:46,195 --> 00:31:48,823 Valeant agreeing to buy Salix Pharmaceuticals for a hundred... 477 00:31:48,907 --> 00:31:50,825 You're never gonna stop doing deals, are you? 478 00:31:50,909 --> 00:31:53,202 Uh, probably not. Life would get boring. 479 00:31:56,915 --> 00:32:00,084 The market was dismissing the skeptics' concerns. End of story. 480 00:32:01,669 --> 00:32:06,007 All I hear is, "Valeant is brilliant. Bill Ackman's a genius. 481 00:32:06,090 --> 00:32:10,720 Mike Pearson is changing the landscape of American pharmaceutical management." 482 00:32:10,803 --> 00:32:13,556 And then, I'm here saying, "I think they're very wrong." 483 00:32:14,390 --> 00:32:18,394 So, I'm on a message board called cafepharma.com. 484 00:32:18,478 --> 00:32:21,898 And I see a bunch of ex-Valeant sales executives 485 00:32:21,981 --> 00:32:24,484 griping about something called Philidor. 486 00:32:25,860 --> 00:32:27,946 Another ex-Valeant rep says, 487 00:32:28,029 --> 00:32:30,907 "What's Philidor? I've never even heard of it." 488 00:32:32,659 --> 00:32:36,412 And they're like, "We're trying to keep it on the down low. 489 00:32:36,496 --> 00:32:38,706 No one really is supposed to know about it." 490 00:32:39,958 --> 00:32:41,751 As a reporter when you hear the-- 491 00:32:41,834 --> 00:32:44,587 You know, the magic phrase, "No one's supposed to know about it," 492 00:32:44,671 --> 00:32:47,799 it's kind of like a teenage boy looking at Playboy. 493 00:32:47,882 --> 00:32:49,467 "I want to know about it." 494 00:32:54,472 --> 00:32:59,477 I found something in the California Pharmacy Board decision, 495 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:04,899 that denied Philidor the license to operate as a pharmacy. 496 00:33:04,983 --> 00:33:07,944 So right then and there I know Philidor's a pharmacy. 497 00:33:08,152 --> 00:33:12,949 I call up the California Pharmacy Board and they tell me, 498 00:33:13,032 --> 00:33:16,244 "Read that decision closely. We think Philidor's a fraud." 499 00:33:20,289 --> 00:33:22,291 Roddy was the first person to say 500 00:33:22,375 --> 00:33:26,212 that Philidor was specifically a device to rip off insurance companies. 501 00:33:26,295 --> 00:33:28,798 On the face of it, it was just a mail-order pharmacy. 502 00:33:30,133 --> 00:33:32,844 It's designed to be kind of user-friendly. 503 00:33:32,927 --> 00:33:37,265 Low co-pays, three months' supply on your doorstep the next day. 504 00:33:37,348 --> 00:33:40,143 The patient doesn't have to go to CVS or Walgreens, 505 00:33:40,226 --> 00:33:43,688 but the prices are incredibly high. 506 00:33:43,771 --> 00:33:48,026 I mean, they're charging hundreds of dollars for Retin-A. 507 00:33:48,109 --> 00:33:51,571 Clearer skin in two weeks? It's possible with Retin-A Micro... 508 00:33:51,654 --> 00:33:54,282 This is the economic engine of Valeant. 509 00:33:54,365 --> 00:33:59,871 Toe nail fungus? Don't hide it! Tackle it with new FDA-approved Jublia! 510 00:33:59,954 --> 00:34:01,539 Jublia, foot fungus cream, 511 00:34:01,622 --> 00:34:04,292 that if you actually look into it, often doesn't work. 512 00:34:04,375 --> 00:34:07,462 Almost $1,000 per. I mean, it's incredible. 513 00:34:07,545 --> 00:34:10,381 This would have been found out by the customer straight away 514 00:34:10,465 --> 00:34:13,301 if they were asked to pay $1,000 for their vitamin A cream, 515 00:34:13,384 --> 00:34:16,637 but that money was stuck to the insurance companies. 516 00:34:17,430 --> 00:34:21,434 Thousands of scripts for expensive drugs were coming from Philidor. 517 00:34:22,685 --> 00:34:25,021 But the insurance companies started getting wise 518 00:34:25,104 --> 00:34:28,649 and they started rejecting more of the scripts that came from Philidor. 519 00:34:28,733 --> 00:34:32,695 So, Philidor would buy a suburban pharmacy. 520 00:34:32,779 --> 00:34:37,116 And then they would pretend that the script came through that pharmacy. 521 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:41,245 But the problem is, you can't buy enough suburban pharmacies 522 00:34:41,329 --> 00:34:43,664 to deceive the insurance companies. 523 00:34:43,748 --> 00:34:47,460 So, maybe you could start inventing fake suburban pharmacies, 524 00:34:47,543 --> 00:34:51,089 and I guess you can invent as many fake suburban pharmacies as you want. 525 00:34:52,715 --> 00:34:57,011 In Delaware, 70 different pharmacies were registered by the same lawyer. 526 00:35:03,434 --> 00:35:07,605 My staff member goes down them and says, "Isn't that a character from The Shining?" 527 00:35:09,148 --> 00:35:11,984 Mr. Hallorann? Are you scared of this place? 528 00:35:14,112 --> 00:35:17,281 No, scared of nothin' here. 529 00:35:18,366 --> 00:35:19,366 It's just that, 530 00:35:20,618 --> 00:35:23,079 you know, some places are like people. 531 00:35:24,288 --> 00:35:27,416 Some shine, and some don't. 532 00:35:28,793 --> 00:35:31,337 I guess you could say the Overlook Hotel here 533 00:35:31,420 --> 00:35:33,923 has something almost like shining. 534 00:35:37,093 --> 00:35:38,594 Hello, Danny. 535 00:35:40,555 --> 00:35:42,306 They're Stephen King novels. 536 00:35:46,310 --> 00:35:51,107 I had to connect, inarguably, Valeant and Philidor. 537 00:35:51,482 --> 00:35:54,735 Because Philidor was an actual, literal smoking gun. 538 00:35:56,946 --> 00:35:59,031 So, what is a Philidor? 539 00:35:59,532 --> 00:36:00,950 It's a chess reference. 540 00:36:02,368 --> 00:36:06,080 It's a reference to a famous French chess player 541 00:36:06,164 --> 00:36:08,833 of the, uh, 18th and 19th centuries. 542 00:36:10,126 --> 00:36:14,130 I started throwing other chess terms into search engines 543 00:36:14,213 --> 00:36:17,800 and I came up with one that connected into Valeant 544 00:36:17,884 --> 00:36:20,344 and that was King's Gambit Accepted. 545 00:36:22,471 --> 00:36:26,309 King's Gambit Accepted in chess speak is KGA. 546 00:36:28,269 --> 00:36:31,814 Buried in Valeant's 2014 annual report, 547 00:36:31,898 --> 00:36:35,818 KGA was disclosed as being owned by Valeant. 548 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:46,204 Eventually, I found one state that had KGA as the owner of Philidor. 549 00:36:57,340 --> 00:36:59,759 At that moment, I knew I had solved it. 550 00:37:05,890 --> 00:37:08,643 Roddy Boyd worked out what Philidor did. 551 00:37:09,977 --> 00:37:12,605 Then, Roddy Boyd found R&O, 552 00:37:12,688 --> 00:37:15,524 which was a suburban pharmacy in California they had bought 553 00:37:15,608 --> 00:37:17,818 in order to hide scripts. 554 00:37:21,989 --> 00:37:25,660 I believe that Philidor was getting around the fact 555 00:37:25,743 --> 00:37:29,455 that they were denied a California State Pharmacy Board license. 556 00:37:29,956 --> 00:37:35,086 They were pulling out all the stops to lie to people, to cover it all up. 557 00:37:39,131 --> 00:37:41,175 R&O Pharmacy was a cutout. 558 00:38:01,070 --> 00:38:04,949 One day, R&O Pharmacy gets a demand letter 559 00:38:05,032 --> 00:38:09,704 for almost $70 million from a guy named Robert Chai-Onn, 560 00:38:09,787 --> 00:38:13,332 who was general counsel of Valeant Pharmaceuticals International. 561 00:38:15,334 --> 00:38:17,211 I mean, Valeant made a big mistake here. 562 00:38:17,295 --> 00:38:21,757 Valeant set the trap itself when it had sent the letter to R&O, 563 00:38:21,841 --> 00:38:24,051 because that opened up the Pandora's Box. 564 00:38:24,135 --> 00:38:28,514 I'd found enough cockroaches and then when I didn't understand this, 565 00:38:28,597 --> 00:38:30,717 I would assume that there was another cockroach behind 566 00:38:30,766 --> 00:38:31,892 and mostly there was. 567 00:38:31,976 --> 00:38:34,854 It's just that Philidor was a rather big cockroach to find. 568 00:38:34,937 --> 00:38:37,732 John Hempton, along with this other band of skeptics, 569 00:38:37,815 --> 00:38:41,736 had been doing a lot of work into Philidor and he knew it was about to come out 570 00:38:41,819 --> 00:38:44,405 and so he sent Bill Ackman just a one-word note. 571 00:38:44,488 --> 00:38:46,407 It was exactly the line from The Graduate. 572 00:38:48,326 --> 00:38:52,621 I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. 573 00:38:52,705 --> 00:38:54,081 "Are you listening?" 574 00:38:54,165 --> 00:38:55,624 - Are you listening? - Yes, I am. 575 00:38:56,208 --> 00:38:57,208 Philidor. 576 00:38:59,545 --> 00:39:02,381 When Bill Ackman initially bought his huge stake, 577 00:39:02,465 --> 00:39:05,217 Philidor probably wasn't apparent to him. 578 00:39:05,301 --> 00:39:07,887 But his staff had been through Philidor. 579 00:39:07,970 --> 00:39:11,557 He could get material non-public information on Valeant. 580 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,393 He had been legally an insider in the company. 581 00:39:16,562 --> 00:39:21,192 The truth is usually a simple story and it's not hidden. 582 00:39:21,692 --> 00:39:27,365 But lies are well hidden and this one had lots and lots of lies. 583 00:39:28,449 --> 00:39:29,909 They didn't have enough cash, 584 00:39:29,992 --> 00:39:33,120 so they invented Philidor so that they'd get more cash. 585 00:39:33,204 --> 00:39:35,164 And they bought this Syprine drug, 586 00:39:35,247 --> 00:39:37,083 which they started ripping off people 587 00:39:37,166 --> 00:39:39,210 to the tune of a quarter of a billion dollars 588 00:39:39,293 --> 00:39:41,128 by holding a gun at their head. 589 00:39:42,338 --> 00:39:44,924 Revenue was going... Right. 590 00:39:45,007 --> 00:39:46,842 The formula looked like it worked. 591 00:40:05,820 --> 00:40:09,657 Every quarter, you go to the investors section. 592 00:40:12,034 --> 00:40:14,495 And most of the good stuff is in the footnotes. 593 00:40:15,871 --> 00:40:18,082 So, here, it's a perfect example. 594 00:40:18,165 --> 00:40:21,961 They said they had higher sales of orphan products and they cite Syprine. 595 00:40:23,170 --> 00:40:25,464 They didn't have higher sales. 596 00:40:26,590 --> 00:40:29,468 More people didn't get Wilson's disease. 597 00:40:29,844 --> 00:40:31,762 What they did is they raised the price. 598 00:40:33,055 --> 00:40:37,059 Syprine is tough because it has a really small patient population. 599 00:40:37,977 --> 00:40:43,566 Yet, Valeant somehow figured out how to turn that into a $300 million drug. 600 00:40:44,233 --> 00:40:49,905 Of which they probably make 250 million in profit every year. 601 00:40:49,989 --> 00:40:55,244 Valeant was very good at creating an illusion that they were growing. 602 00:40:55,744 --> 00:41:01,125 And they tried to manipulate the numbers in a way that may have been legal 603 00:41:01,208 --> 00:41:05,379 but was certainly giving investors the wrong impression. 604 00:41:13,304 --> 00:41:16,515 When you're a short seller, you want to know what the company is doing 605 00:41:16,599 --> 00:41:18,350 because they're not gonna tell you. 606 00:41:19,018 --> 00:41:20,144 I'm here on the East Coast. 607 00:41:20,227 --> 00:41:22,563 I can go to Pennsylvania and New Jersey pretty easily. 608 00:41:23,481 --> 00:41:25,483 So I would kind of do a stakeout. 609 00:41:33,491 --> 00:41:37,745 The way I function is I do my work in the shadows 610 00:41:37,828 --> 00:41:41,540 and I take my work and send it to the appropriate authorities. 611 00:41:41,957 --> 00:41:45,711 That might mean I send my work to journalists and the mainstream media 612 00:41:45,794 --> 00:41:49,715 or to Valeant's auditors or to the SEC. 613 00:41:52,635 --> 00:41:55,971 I spoke with as many Valeant employees as I could. 614 00:41:56,055 --> 00:42:00,643 There was a real inflection point in the morale of Valeant employees. 615 00:42:01,435 --> 00:42:04,230 Fahmi had worked out vast amounts that I hadn't 616 00:42:04,313 --> 00:42:07,441 and I had worked out vast amounts that Fahmi hadn't. 617 00:42:07,525 --> 00:42:09,860 And I'm a better accountant than Fahmi, 618 00:42:09,944 --> 00:42:13,280 but Fahmi knows far, far more about drugs than I do. 619 00:42:13,364 --> 00:42:15,491 Fahmi is a medical specialist. 620 00:42:16,408 --> 00:42:22,414 So, all the bits that I work out about, "Hey, they've raised the price," 621 00:42:22,498 --> 00:42:25,960 Fahmi would tell me, "Uh, yeah, and it's got seven generic alternatives, 622 00:42:26,043 --> 00:42:28,587 and here's why, and here's why this price is silly, 623 00:42:28,671 --> 00:42:30,839 and this is why the system's being ripped off." 624 00:42:43,477 --> 00:42:46,021 And this was the second short position I ever put on 625 00:42:46,105 --> 00:42:47,773 in my entire career. 626 00:42:47,856 --> 00:42:50,276 It was a huge moment for me, 627 00:42:50,359 --> 00:42:54,488 especially since at the time, very few people were shorting the stock. 628 00:42:54,572 --> 00:42:58,075 But I, as I had said, thought it was the perfect moment. 629 00:42:58,158 --> 00:43:01,829 Because I thought the balance sheet was completely tapped out. 630 00:43:01,912 --> 00:43:04,290 Even though I thought I got my timing right, 631 00:43:04,373 --> 00:43:11,338 I still went into the summer of 2015 with health care at all-time highs, 632 00:43:11,422 --> 00:43:15,217 and Valeant went all the way up to $262 a share. 633 00:43:16,176 --> 00:43:21,682 I wasn't too disheartened because I had other short sellers in my ear saying, 634 00:43:21,765 --> 00:43:24,018 "Fahmi, when things get tough, 635 00:43:24,101 --> 00:43:26,437 you just gotta stick with it because you've done the work." 636 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,440 So I stuck with it, and I continued to do my work, 637 00:43:29,523 --> 00:43:31,650 because I was still at that point in my career 638 00:43:31,734 --> 00:43:35,070 where I had to prove to everyone that I knew what I was doing. 639 00:43:35,738 --> 00:43:36,738 So... 640 00:43:37,865 --> 00:43:43,829 after that, Hillary Clinton came out with her tweets about drug pricing. 641 00:43:43,912 --> 00:43:46,498 This is a letter from someone who's here. 642 00:43:46,582 --> 00:43:50,961 She has to take a brand name drug, been taking it since the early 1980s. 643 00:43:51,045 --> 00:43:55,466 At that time, it cost approximately $180 for ten shots. 644 00:43:55,549 --> 00:44:02,097 The latest refill was $14,700 for the same ten vials. 645 00:44:02,181 --> 00:44:05,601 And the company is called Valeant Pharmaceuticals. 646 00:44:05,684 --> 00:44:06,977 I'm going after them. 647 00:44:07,061 --> 00:44:11,774 This is predatory pricing and we're going to make sure it is stopped. 648 00:44:12,775 --> 00:44:15,653 As a short seller, the key thing is waiting for the catalyst. 649 00:44:15,736 --> 00:44:18,614 At what point do people say, "Now it matters." 650 00:44:18,697 --> 00:44:21,408 And I think the election and Shkreli were a turning point. 651 00:44:21,492 --> 00:44:24,495 The drug in question is called Daraprim. 652 00:44:24,578 --> 00:44:26,580 It used to cost $13.50 per pill. 653 00:44:26,664 --> 00:44:30,668 Turing changed the cost to a whopping $750. 654 00:44:30,751 --> 00:44:33,712 That's price gouging, pure and simple. 655 00:44:33,796 --> 00:44:38,801 Did you not expect a 5,000% price increase would result in that kind of attention? 656 00:44:38,884 --> 00:44:42,638 Maybe, maybe not. It depends on how, uh, focused people want to be on the industry. 657 00:44:42,721 --> 00:44:45,432 There have been much larger drug price increases 658 00:44:45,516 --> 00:44:46,892 by much bigger drug companies. 659 00:44:46,975 --> 00:44:49,103 Martin Shkreli bought Daraprim 660 00:44:49,186 --> 00:44:53,649 and he stuck a whole lot of cost to insurance company and HIV patients, 661 00:44:53,732 --> 00:44:56,193 and he got rich. Right? 662 00:44:56,276 --> 00:45:00,572 Valeant didn't just do it with Daraprim, it did it with about 100 drugs. 663 00:45:00,656 --> 00:45:04,493 The Valeant formula was, "We'll do it with everything we can." 664 00:45:04,576 --> 00:45:08,914 This was Wall Street at its worst, funding a drug company at its worst. 665 00:45:08,997 --> 00:45:10,833 When I saw Shkreli in the election, I'm like, 666 00:45:10,916 --> 00:45:12,751 "It's time to dig deep and hard and fast." 667 00:45:12,835 --> 00:45:14,837 Some breaking news on Valeant. 668 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,090 We had heard earlier how the stock was tumbling. How's it going so far? 669 00:45:18,173 --> 00:45:20,342 It still remains sharply lower. 670 00:45:20,426 --> 00:45:23,303 On a report coming out from Citron Research, which asks, 671 00:45:23,387 --> 00:45:27,391 "Could this be the pharmaceutical Enron?" So quite an inflammatory report. 672 00:45:27,474 --> 00:45:31,478 If you read the story, you'll see what I'm accusing Valeant of. 673 00:45:31,562 --> 00:45:36,275 Andrew Left is this irascible, West Coast guy who weighed in on Valeant, 674 00:45:36,358 --> 00:45:38,277 calling it the Pharmaceutical Enron. 675 00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,864 It should be noted that his financial analysis wasn't right. 676 00:45:41,947 --> 00:45:44,450 He thought that Valeant was using Philidor 677 00:45:44,533 --> 00:45:48,787 to stuff the channel to create sales that weren't really there 678 00:45:48,871 --> 00:45:50,664 and that's not quite what was happening. 679 00:45:50,747 --> 00:45:53,959 But he was absolutely right in the cultural comparisons to Enron, 680 00:45:54,042 --> 00:45:58,255 because both companies had this culture of trying to work the rules, 681 00:45:58,338 --> 00:46:02,092 not paying any attention to the ethics. 682 00:46:02,176 --> 00:46:03,927 Andrew Left's story is wrong. 683 00:46:04,011 --> 00:46:06,388 But the company can't come out and defend it. 684 00:46:06,472 --> 00:46:08,974 And the reason it can't come out and defend it is that 685 00:46:09,057 --> 00:46:13,187 if they defend it, they have to state what's really happening. 686 00:46:13,270 --> 00:46:16,106 And ripping off Wall Street is sort of one thing. 687 00:46:16,190 --> 00:46:18,025 Ripping off Middle America is another thing. 688 00:46:18,108 --> 00:46:22,821 Listen, these are allegations, of course, and often times, you don't wanna be in... 689 00:46:22,905 --> 00:46:25,991 I can't be in a position to tell you whether they are true or not, 690 00:46:26,074 --> 00:46:28,285 but they are focused on a drug called Philidor... 691 00:46:28,368 --> 00:46:31,079 The minute attention went on Philidor, 692 00:46:31,163 --> 00:46:33,790 Valeant sales started completely imploding. 693 00:46:33,874 --> 00:46:35,959 Valeant, let's take a little look at the stock. 694 00:46:36,043 --> 00:46:40,422 But I'm not sure if it's, uh, continued to move down or stabilized in any way. 695 00:46:40,506 --> 00:46:43,091 Where is it now? Now it's in a complete free fall... 696 00:46:43,175 --> 00:46:46,803 This is about $18 billion of wealth that has been destroyed... 697 00:46:46,887 --> 00:46:50,265 It's a snowball that keeps getting bigger and bigger for Valeant. 698 00:46:50,349 --> 00:46:55,020 The stock has since lost $22 billion, a fourth of its value, 699 00:46:55,103 --> 00:46:58,524 and whoever owns those puts basically two million shares... 700 00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:15,749 After we saw the false report for Citron, 701 00:47:15,832 --> 00:47:19,670 we request that the SEC investigate Mr. Left and Citron. 702 00:47:19,753 --> 00:47:23,840 It's very nice and I feel flattered that he's made me a poster child. 703 00:47:23,924 --> 00:47:28,136 But, uh, am I the one who laid off everyone 704 00:47:28,220 --> 00:47:30,540 at the Bausch and Lomb research and development department, 705 00:47:30,597 --> 00:47:33,225 who's raised the price of heart medication? 706 00:47:33,308 --> 00:47:37,104 There's reasons why his stock is here and it's not because of me. 707 00:47:37,187 --> 00:47:40,232 We'll call it what it is, I'm a market participant. 708 00:47:40,315 --> 00:47:43,360 So, obviously, I was interested in the stock price of Valeant. 709 00:47:43,443 --> 00:47:46,738 That being said, the outrage was 710 00:47:46,822 --> 00:47:53,203 when you look at Pearson and Ackman speaking like Valeant's doing God's work. 711 00:47:53,287 --> 00:47:55,038 Then you're like, "Come on." 712 00:47:55,122 --> 00:47:58,792 If we're gonna have a fair dialogue about this, back and forth, 713 00:47:58,875 --> 00:48:00,752 then let's be honest with one another. 714 00:48:00,836 --> 00:48:02,963 And I think what people are really wondering about is, 715 00:48:03,046 --> 00:48:05,215 with all of this business with Philidor, 716 00:48:05,299 --> 00:48:08,969 just how much did you know about what was going on? 717 00:48:09,052 --> 00:48:13,473 Lots of allegations have been made, but, um, nothing has been proven yet. 718 00:48:13,557 --> 00:48:16,184 And I was unaware of any of the allegations. 719 00:48:17,394 --> 00:48:18,705 Good morning... 720 00:48:18,729 --> 00:48:21,523 The company came out with a conference call, 721 00:48:21,607 --> 00:48:25,694 and they were distancing themselves from Philidor as fast as they can. 722 00:48:34,745 --> 00:48:38,582 But they did put $100 million into Philidor. 723 00:48:38,665 --> 00:48:43,003 And the whole board of Valeant apparently had gone to visit Philidor 724 00:48:43,086 --> 00:48:44,796 before they put the money in. 725 00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,341 So it's very hard to distance themselves, 726 00:48:47,424 --> 00:48:49,384 but that was the tone of the conference call. 727 00:48:58,518 --> 00:49:01,021 One investor told me that he thought, 728 00:49:01,104 --> 00:49:03,982 "They'll have answers for this on the conference call on Monday. 729 00:49:04,066 --> 00:49:06,610 They'll take the weekend, they'll have this conference call, 730 00:49:06,693 --> 00:49:08,612 and they'll tell me everything I need to know." 731 00:49:08,695 --> 00:49:11,406 And when they didn't and were evasive on the conference call, 732 00:49:11,490 --> 00:49:15,285 and didn't really give answers, he said, "That's it. I'm selling all my stock." 733 00:49:22,876 --> 00:49:24,586 Bill Ackman had a conference call, 734 00:49:25,170 --> 00:49:27,714 and it was really clear from the conference call 735 00:49:27,798 --> 00:49:29,716 that Bill had no idea what Philidor did. 736 00:49:48,777 --> 00:49:52,739 That was a conference call that was done a little bit in delusion. 737 00:49:54,074 --> 00:49:56,010 - And the delusion... Oh... - He sounds nervous, right? 738 00:49:56,034 --> 00:49:59,538 Do you remember that? He was very nervous... 739 00:49:59,621 --> 00:50:02,791 He was nervous, except he bet another billion dollars on it. 740 00:50:17,389 --> 00:50:22,644 Bill wrongly or rightly started to see it as a war of public perception. 741 00:50:22,728 --> 00:50:25,188 And that if he could step in 742 00:50:25,272 --> 00:50:29,651 and answer the questions that Valeant wasn't answering well, 743 00:50:29,735 --> 00:50:33,071 it would turn the tide on this thing. 744 00:50:33,155 --> 00:50:35,866 I think he didn't realize that now it had become reality, 745 00:50:35,949 --> 00:50:39,327 it was no longer about perception. Reality was winning. 746 00:50:49,296 --> 00:50:52,299 There is this one e-mail, um, from Bill Ackman 747 00:50:52,382 --> 00:50:56,011 to Pearson and others at Valeant, saying... 748 00:50:56,094 --> 00:50:59,055 "When every state trooper follows you, 749 00:50:59,139 --> 00:51:01,975 even if you're not guilty, you'll get charged with something." 750 00:51:07,606 --> 00:51:10,150 Just when you think things can't get worse, 751 00:51:10,233 --> 00:51:13,987 the news breaks that Pearson has to take medical leave from the company. 752 00:51:15,238 --> 00:51:17,240 There is a fair amount of speculation 753 00:51:17,324 --> 00:51:20,619 that his very hard-living lifestyle caught up with him. 754 00:51:20,702 --> 00:51:23,997 But there's no question that he was very, very, very sick. 755 00:51:29,085 --> 00:51:31,671 But even though Pearson had led them to this point, 756 00:51:31,755 --> 00:51:35,342 they all seemed to believe he was the only one who could save them. 757 00:51:35,592 --> 00:51:37,594 So back Mike Pearson comes. 758 00:51:47,312 --> 00:51:50,732 Mike Pearson disappeared from the scene 759 00:51:50,816 --> 00:51:55,362 just as the Philidor thing was getting to the point of Philidor being one-off, 760 00:51:55,445 --> 00:51:58,740 to Philidor being indicative of the whole structure. 761 00:52:07,874 --> 00:52:12,212 With him away for a month and a half, he couldn't control the narrative anymore. 762 00:52:37,571 --> 00:52:41,157 There was a lot of drama that came out, 763 00:52:41,241 --> 00:52:44,536 that was leaked to the press, around Pearson. 764 00:52:44,619 --> 00:52:46,499 Well, what about the whole Philidor aspect of... 765 00:52:46,538 --> 00:52:48,498 ValueAct was obviously on the board, 766 00:52:48,582 --> 00:52:50,333 so they wanted to keep Pearson around. 767 00:52:50,417 --> 00:52:52,752 Do you think Michael Pearson is still the guy for this job? 768 00:52:52,836 --> 00:52:56,089 Mike, he's a great problem solver and we're solving problems as we speak. 769 00:52:56,172 --> 00:52:59,926 Really being as determined as we can be to solve his problems. 770 00:53:00,010 --> 00:53:02,929 We think Mike is the right guy for the job now. 771 00:53:03,013 --> 00:53:04,848 Bill Ackman is here. 772 00:53:04,931 --> 00:53:08,685 But Ackman, who started to ramp up his activism in Valeant, 773 00:53:08,768 --> 00:53:11,396 did not want Pearson around. 774 00:53:11,479 --> 00:53:12,772 So what did we miss? 775 00:53:12,856 --> 00:53:15,734 We missed that someone with a superb track record 776 00:53:15,817 --> 00:53:17,819 of making acquisitions could do something... 777 00:53:17,903 --> 00:53:20,030 Mike Pearson went crazy, in my opinion. 778 00:53:21,156 --> 00:53:22,490 First weekend on the board, 779 00:53:22,574 --> 00:53:25,577 uh, we convinced the rest of the board that Mike had to go. 780 00:53:25,660 --> 00:53:29,956 I was the guy the board asked to call him to tell him he was fired. 781 00:53:32,334 --> 00:53:37,589 Ackman effectively took control of the board. 782 00:53:37,672 --> 00:53:39,925 He fired Pearson, 783 00:53:40,008 --> 00:53:43,887 he got people to the board who were all friends of his. 784 00:53:43,970 --> 00:53:46,097 Then the stock continued going down. 785 00:53:46,181 --> 00:53:49,392 This whole thing made a mockery of this idea 786 00:53:49,476 --> 00:53:53,897 that a company with this august hedge fund on its board was a well-managed company, 787 00:53:53,980 --> 00:53:59,653 because it was all just a complete, um, swear-word show. 788 00:53:59,736 --> 00:54:00,737 You can swear. 789 00:54:00,820 --> 00:54:03,281 It was all a complete shitshow. It really was. 790 00:54:03,365 --> 00:54:08,078 It was just a disastrous, uh, couple of weeks that have to go down in history 791 00:54:08,161 --> 00:54:12,540 as the worst crisis management ever. 792 00:54:16,878 --> 00:54:19,297 Mike Pearson went from being a billionaire on paper 793 00:54:19,381 --> 00:54:22,550 because of the work he did at Valeant and the deals he made, 794 00:54:22,634 --> 00:54:24,552 to being a potential criminal 795 00:54:24,636 --> 00:54:27,639 and being investigated on some very serious claims. 796 00:54:27,722 --> 00:54:31,643 So I can't imagine what goes on in his mind. 797 00:54:33,311 --> 00:54:35,939 What would you say to Mike if he were sitting here? 798 00:54:36,523 --> 00:54:37,691 Good luck. 799 00:54:43,363 --> 00:54:47,450 The hearing will come to order. Senator McCaskill. 800 00:54:47,534 --> 00:54:53,123 Thank you. According to your SEC filings, Mr. Pearson, 801 00:54:53,206 --> 00:55:00,171 beginning in first quarter of 2013 through the third quarter of 2015, 802 00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:04,926 you state in your filings that your revenue, 803 00:55:05,010 --> 00:55:09,681 changes in revenue have been driven primarily by price. 804 00:55:10,223 --> 00:55:13,977 Um, yes, uh, pricing has driven more growth than volume, 805 00:55:14,060 --> 00:55:16,229 although that is changing over time. 806 00:55:16,313 --> 00:55:19,399 The average price of your top 30 products 807 00:55:19,482 --> 00:55:23,570 is up 78% over last year. 808 00:55:25,864 --> 00:55:31,328 Now, you can't attribute that to R&D 'cause you don't spend that much on R&D. 809 00:55:31,411 --> 00:55:35,957 Uh, we spend 8% of our pharmaceutical revenue on R&D. 810 00:55:36,041 --> 00:55:38,626 Whoa. Mr. Schiller, didn't you agree in the hearing in the House 811 00:55:38,710 --> 00:55:40,712 it was actually 3%? 812 00:55:40,795 --> 00:55:42,839 Do I need to pull that testimony out? 813 00:55:43,590 --> 00:55:46,926 My recollection was I said it's 3% of total revenue. 814 00:55:47,010 --> 00:55:49,637 Right. This is the business model. 815 00:55:49,721 --> 00:55:54,726 This was not, um, researchers or scientists or academicians 816 00:55:54,809 --> 00:55:57,103 that were trying to buy a pharmaceutical company 817 00:55:57,187 --> 00:55:59,272 in order to promote new drugs. 818 00:55:59,355 --> 00:56:01,399 This was purely a hedge fund move. 819 00:56:01,483 --> 00:56:04,319 You can create as much value acquiring 820 00:56:05,195 --> 00:56:09,074 small, fast-growing companies that develop drugs 821 00:56:09,157 --> 00:56:11,910 as you can by developing them yourselves. 822 00:56:11,993 --> 00:56:14,871 - But doesn't that require price increases? - No. 823 00:56:14,954 --> 00:56:18,124 Wait a minute. You're telling me you're gonna go buy a company 824 00:56:18,208 --> 00:56:20,377 - that's selling a drug for price X. - Right. 825 00:56:20,460 --> 00:56:24,089 And you're gonna give them a price for their company and, therefore, that drug. 826 00:56:24,172 --> 00:56:27,467 - Correct. - And that's gonna be a profit for them? 827 00:56:27,550 --> 00:56:29,260 - Very much so, yes. - Yeah. 828 00:56:29,344 --> 00:56:32,389 And then you're gonna take that drug and charge the same price 829 00:56:32,472 --> 00:56:36,059 after you have put your capital and given them a profit? 830 00:56:36,142 --> 00:56:38,603 - Don't you have to raise the price? - No, I think-- 831 00:56:38,686 --> 00:56:41,731 Can you find me one drug that Valeant didn't raise the price on? 832 00:56:41,815 --> 00:56:44,255 - I don't know off-hand. - I don't have the price list. 833 00:56:44,317 --> 00:56:45,944 Mr. Pearson? One drug. 834 00:56:47,487 --> 00:56:49,781 That you didn't raise the price on after you acquired it? 835 00:56:49,864 --> 00:56:51,258 Not in the United States. 836 00:56:51,282 --> 00:56:54,160 They found a drug that had a monopoly. 837 00:56:54,702 --> 00:56:59,874 They bought the company, stripped out all the R&D in the company. 838 00:57:00,500 --> 00:57:03,002 Made no changes to the drug, 839 00:57:03,086 --> 00:57:08,133 and then jacked the price up 300, 400, 500, 700%. 840 00:57:08,216 --> 00:57:11,302 And the American people were left holding the bag. 841 00:57:12,220 --> 00:57:15,932 Mr. Ackman, Exhibit Number 81 842 00:57:16,015 --> 00:57:22,439 is an e-mail you received in January 2015 from a man by the name of Drew Katz. 843 00:57:24,691 --> 00:57:26,443 He had Wilson's disease. 844 00:57:29,279 --> 00:57:32,115 I first was diagnosed in the very early '80s. 845 00:57:33,658 --> 00:57:38,204 I'm a lucky one. I'll have my medicine one way or another. 846 00:57:41,458 --> 00:57:45,295 When you invest in a hedge fund, you're investing in managers 847 00:57:45,378 --> 00:57:48,089 and the managers are then going to invest your money. 848 00:57:48,173 --> 00:57:52,844 Once it was disclosed what, uh, the hedge fund owned 849 00:57:52,927 --> 00:57:57,140 and I saw that it owned a lot of Valeant Pharmaceuticals, 850 00:57:59,142 --> 00:58:04,189 it was really, um, challenging. 851 00:58:04,606 --> 00:58:06,149 It was very challenging for me. 852 00:58:06,232 --> 00:58:08,067 - He had contacted you... - Yes. 853 00:58:08,151 --> 00:58:10,445 ...about the incredible problem 854 00:58:10,528 --> 00:58:14,741 and the fact that death could result if people couldn't get this drug. 855 00:58:14,824 --> 00:58:15,658 Absolutely. 856 00:58:15,742 --> 00:58:17,827 - And the incredible increase in price. - Yes. 857 00:58:17,911 --> 00:58:21,122 - You called Mr. Pearson. - I sent him an e-mail. 858 00:58:21,206 --> 00:58:23,100 My understanding from you talking with the committee 859 00:58:23,124 --> 00:58:26,503 is that he assured you that anybody who needed help could get it. 860 00:58:26,586 --> 00:58:29,923 Did you follow up to see what they had done about the price of this drug? 861 00:58:30,006 --> 00:58:31,674 No, I took him at his word. 862 00:58:31,758 --> 00:58:35,053 We have invested, and for many years 863 00:58:35,136 --> 00:58:37,305 since I joined the company, 864 00:58:37,388 --> 00:58:42,685 uh, heavily in patient assistance programs so we follow up patient by patient. 865 00:58:42,769 --> 00:58:46,648 Their PR that they had patient assistance programs 866 00:58:46,731 --> 00:58:50,735 and it was really helping families that couldn't afford the drug, 867 00:58:50,818 --> 00:58:52,779 we certainly heard testimony from people that said 868 00:58:52,862 --> 00:58:54,531 that couldn't be further from the truth. 869 00:58:56,908 --> 00:58:59,786 Whenever you see a big increase in a drug, 870 00:58:59,869 --> 00:59:02,413 what the drug company will do is they'll come out and say, 871 00:59:02,497 --> 00:59:04,499 "If you can't afford it, it's free." 872 00:59:04,958 --> 00:59:08,419 All they're doing is trying to keep the patients quiet 873 00:59:09,087 --> 00:59:11,881 so the insurer will pay the whole bill. 874 00:59:12,715 --> 00:59:14,551 But that's not how that works. 875 00:59:14,634 --> 00:59:18,471 All insurance is pooled money. Everyone pays for this. 876 00:59:18,555 --> 00:59:22,934 That is why our insurance is so expensive. Those costs get passed on to us. 877 00:59:23,017 --> 00:59:25,812 This is a cost that's being spread to you. 878 00:59:25,895 --> 00:59:30,692 This is why health care, generally, is so damn expensive. 879 00:59:45,456 --> 00:59:48,376 Valeant became one of the most egregious examples, 880 00:59:48,459 --> 00:59:49,539 but they're far from alone. 881 00:59:49,586 --> 00:59:51,879 Huge price hikes over the past five years... 882 00:59:51,963 --> 00:59:54,924 Other companies were set up precisely to do the same thing. 883 00:59:55,008 --> 00:59:56,902 The price of insulin more than tripled 884 00:59:56,926 --> 00:59:58,636 to more than $700 per patient... 885 00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:00,320 Fifteen new cancer drugs 886 01:00:00,388 --> 01:00:02,557 that cost more than $10,000 a month... 887 01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:07,270 EpiPen prices are increasing by 400% since 2008. 888 01:00:07,353 --> 01:00:11,524 All of biopharma's earnings growth last year came from drug price increases. 889 01:00:12,567 --> 01:00:15,445 I texted our board chair while I was listening to the hearing 890 01:00:15,528 --> 01:00:16,797 and suggested we have a board call tomorrow 891 01:00:16,821 --> 01:00:20,241 to discuss, uh, the drugs that are the subject of today's hearing. 892 01:00:20,325 --> 01:00:24,120 And my recommendation is gonna be to reduce the prices of those drugs. 893 01:00:24,787 --> 01:00:27,790 I'm sitting in my office, watching it on a web stream, 894 01:00:28,166 --> 01:00:30,710 and you see Ackman say, "That's it, we surrender. 895 01:00:31,544 --> 01:00:34,088 I'm texting the board, we're lowering the prices." 896 01:00:35,757 --> 01:00:36,757 And a giant... 897 01:00:37,675 --> 01:00:41,387 You kind of exhale, and say, "That's it, we won! It's over." 898 01:00:43,556 --> 01:00:45,475 A year later, nothing's changed. 899 01:00:49,479 --> 01:00:51,773 We've been successful, had some good articles written. 900 01:00:51,856 --> 01:00:54,901 We did try to shame 'em. I thought that would do it. 901 01:00:57,111 --> 01:01:01,074 And sometimes you say to yourself, "Why fight this fight?" 902 01:01:01,157 --> 01:01:03,076 And I think about my daughters. 903 01:01:03,159 --> 01:01:08,247 What if they had lost the genetic lottery? What if they had this disease? 904 01:01:08,331 --> 01:01:14,295 What if they had this $300,000-a-year drug bill 905 01:01:14,379 --> 01:01:18,424 hanging around their neck for the rest of their life like a stone? 906 01:01:19,384 --> 01:01:22,679 Their lives would be destroyed. It'd be terrible. 907 01:01:22,762 --> 01:01:25,056 And it's not just my kids, it's everybody's kids. 908 01:01:25,139 --> 01:01:27,850 My children would be disappointed if I stopped fighting. 909 01:01:27,934 --> 01:01:29,602 They wouldn't know who I was. 910 01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:37,568 The great tragic irony is that 911 01:01:37,652 --> 01:01:40,780 their victims are now the ones helping to keep the company afloat. 912 01:01:40,863 --> 01:01:43,116 Valeant can't afford to reduce their profits 913 01:01:43,199 --> 01:01:45,535 by reducing the cost of these drugs. 914 01:01:48,079 --> 01:01:49,539 Valeant told Congress 915 01:01:49,622 --> 01:01:52,291 that they were going to lower the price of these drugs. 916 01:01:52,375 --> 01:01:53,876 And then they didn't do it. 917 01:01:54,544 --> 01:01:59,465 If they dropped the price of the drugs, they will not be able to pay their debt. 918 01:02:00,383 --> 01:02:04,804 Right, so Valeant's still in the business of ripping people off to this day. 919 01:02:08,349 --> 01:02:10,435 And now where is it at today? 920 01:02:10,518 --> 01:02:14,731 So today, it is at $16 and change. 921 01:02:15,940 --> 01:02:19,402 And when investors ask me why I'm not taking profits, 922 01:02:19,485 --> 01:02:22,488 I say there is still another 16 bucks to go. 923 01:02:25,533 --> 01:02:30,455 We've taken seriously the requests and the inquiries from this committee. 924 01:02:30,538 --> 01:02:34,959 And we have, uh, dramatically, um, taken 925 01:02:35,042 --> 01:02:38,004 a much more conservative approach to pricing, 926 01:02:38,087 --> 01:02:40,673 and I think that we're the lowest in the industry now 927 01:02:40,757 --> 01:02:42,633 over that time period in terms of pricing. 928 01:02:42,717 --> 01:02:44,218 So we certainly have listened. 929 01:02:44,719 --> 01:02:48,014 If you are an industry leader in this area, 930 01:02:48,097 --> 01:02:51,058 we'll need to have a lot more hearings with a lot more drug companies. 931 01:02:52,643 --> 01:02:53,853 Mike Pearson... 932 01:02:53,936 --> 01:02:56,105 I never really thought about him on a personal level. 933 01:02:56,189 --> 01:02:59,400 I just think he was a bad actor, 934 01:02:59,484 --> 01:03:02,820 operating in an environment where there was no rules to stop him. 935 01:03:02,904 --> 01:03:05,239 So he was just a pirate. 936 01:03:05,323 --> 01:03:07,883 I just look at him and I see a pirate. I don't see anything else. 937 01:03:07,909 --> 01:03:10,536 Clearly, there were things I did not understand about the business 938 01:03:10,620 --> 01:03:14,499 and this was a failure of due diligence on my part, for sure. 939 01:03:16,417 --> 01:03:18,711 This is the good side of Bill Ackman. 940 01:03:18,795 --> 01:03:22,131 I think he felt that he had a responsibility to fix it. 941 01:03:22,215 --> 01:03:25,384 Now, perhaps you might say there is still a lot of arrogance at work 942 01:03:25,468 --> 01:03:26,868 in the belief that he could fix it. 943 01:03:28,763 --> 01:03:30,890 To me, the scariest thing about the Valeant story 944 01:03:30,973 --> 01:03:34,227 is this divergence between what's good for investors 945 01:03:34,310 --> 01:03:36,896 and what's good for people in society. 946 01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:40,733 And, in this story, they were two different things 947 01:03:40,817 --> 01:03:41,859 and that didn't matter. 948 01:03:41,943 --> 01:03:43,462 Thank all of you for being here today, 949 01:03:43,486 --> 01:03:46,531 and, um, we are glad, Mr. Pearson, you're feeling better. 950 01:03:46,614 --> 01:03:48,533 Thank you very much. 951 01:03:48,616 --> 01:03:51,828 How much of what Valeant was doing and taking part in what we discussed, 952 01:03:51,911 --> 01:03:54,914 how much of it was legal versus illegal? 953 01:03:54,997 --> 01:03:58,668 I think we didn't find anything they were doing that was illegal. 954 01:03:58,918 --> 01:04:01,504 And that's the thing that's startling about this. 955 01:04:01,587 --> 01:04:02,981 ♪ Authorities have spoken ♪ 956 01:04:03,005 --> 01:04:04,507 ♪ Demanded your pure devotion ♪ 957 01:04:04,590 --> 01:04:07,385 ♪ Get magnetized to the ground While the falcons of murder close in ♪ 958 01:04:07,468 --> 01:04:10,429 ♪ I chose to go guano Y'all know, kinda bat shit ♪ 959 01:04:10,513 --> 01:04:13,266 ♪ The bright lights of fuckery Stuck in me automatic ♪ 960 01:04:13,432 --> 01:04:15,852 ♪ I’ll teabag a piranha tank Heart barely beatin' ♪ 961 01:04:15,935 --> 01:04:18,896 ♪ A wild one who’ll swim like Directly after he's eaten ♪ 962 01:04:18,980 --> 01:04:21,649 ♪ While holding a toaster oven That's plugged with a fork in it ♪ 963 01:04:21,732 --> 01:04:24,777 ♪ 'Cause death by electrocution's Like life in New York, isn't it? ♪ 964 01:04:24,861 --> 01:04:27,840 ♪ Jewel runner bitch make the name stick Not for sale but I'm takin' payments ♪ 965 01:04:27,864 --> 01:04:33,578 ♪ Lie, cheat, steal, kill, win, win Everybody doin’ it ♪ 966 01:04:33,661 --> 01:04:36,789 ♪ Lie, cheat, steal, kill, win ♪ 967 01:04:39,041 --> 01:04:40,293 ♪ Like who really run this? ♪ 968 01:04:40,376 --> 01:04:42,354 ♪ Like who really run That man that say he run this? ♪ 969 01:04:42,378 --> 01:04:45,131 ♪ Who, who really run That man that say he run this? ♪ 970 01:04:45,214 --> 01:04:46,316 ♪ Like who really fund this? ♪ 971 01:04:46,340 --> 01:04:48,110 ♪ Like who really fund Who say he fund this? ♪ 972 01:04:48,134 --> 01:04:49,903 ♪ Like who in the world Gon' tell Donald Sterl ♪ 973 01:04:49,927 --> 01:04:51,029 ♪ Who to put On the “you can’t come” list? ♪ 974 01:04:51,053 --> 01:04:56,601 ♪ Lie, cheat, steal, kill, win, win Everybody doin’ it ♪ 975 01:04:56,684 --> 01:05:02,440 ♪ Lie, cheat, steal, kill, win, win Everybody doin’ it ♪ 976 01:05:02,523 --> 01:05:08,279 ♪ Lie, cheat, steal, kill, win, win Everybody doin’ it ♪ 977 01:05:08,362 --> 01:05:11,908 ♪ Lie, cheat, steal, kill, win ♪ 978 01:05:18,414 --> 01:05:19,874 ♪ Everybody doin’ it ♪ 979 01:05:24,170 --> 01:05:26,339 ♪ Everybody doin’ it Doin' it ♪ 980 01:05:29,967 --> 01:05:31,969 ♪ Everybody doin’ it ♪ 89494

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