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1
00:01:15,144 --> 00:01:23,163
Ripped By mstoll
2
00:01:28,978 --> 00:01:31,737
Ah, Mrs Slater.
If you'd like to follow me?
3
00:01:39,283 --> 00:01:40,959
- Mr Slater?
- Yeah.
4
00:01:41,047 --> 00:01:43,169
Uh, both of us, we're her sons.
5
00:01:43,253 --> 00:01:44,929
So I wanted to tell you
what's happening.
6
00:01:45,017 --> 00:01:46,214
Your mother's being released now
7
00:01:46,300 --> 00:01:47,896
and has been bailed
to return here in a month.
8
00:01:48,345 --> 00:01:51,470
Okay. And so is she being
charged with anything or...
9
00:01:51,553 --> 00:01:54,472
- No, not yet.
- Right. I see.
10
00:01:54,561 --> 00:01:58,279
And my, uh, father, is he...
What's happening there?
11
00:01:58,370 --> 00:02:01,688
Your father went before a
magistrates' court a couple of hours ago
12
00:02:01,778 --> 00:02:04,173
and was then transferred
to Eastbridge Prison.
13
00:02:04,265 --> 00:02:07,024
He's being held on remand
after being charged with two murders.
14
00:02:07,994 --> 00:02:09,476
- No.
- Has he confessed?
15
00:02:09,598 --> 00:02:11,594
All I can tell you, I'm afraid.
16
00:02:11,683 --> 00:02:14,443
He killed two people?
17
00:02:14,530 --> 00:02:17,256
Like I said, that's all
I know at the moment.
18
00:02:17,337 --> 00:02:20,222
So I think what would be best
19
00:02:20,304 --> 00:02:22,744
is if you just took your mum home.
20
00:02:23,833 --> 00:02:25,235
All right, Mrs Slater?
21
00:02:25,637 --> 00:02:27,519
Oh, Matthew, I've been so scared.
22
00:02:27,883 --> 00:02:31,327
It's Les, Mum. The car's outside.
23
00:02:35,542 --> 00:02:36,864
Mr Slater?
24
00:02:38,790 --> 00:02:41,150
In cases like this, it might be worth
trying to find somewhere quiet
25
00:02:41,236 --> 00:02:43,151
for a few days to take everyone.
26
00:02:43,241 --> 00:02:45,396
Till the papers and TV
settle down a bit.
27
00:02:46,088 --> 00:02:48,813
It's not going to be easy for you.
28
00:02:54,027 --> 00:02:55,464
A witness saw our man's car
29
00:02:55,551 --> 00:02:56,873
leaving at four in the morning.
30
00:02:57,877 --> 00:02:59,599
He drove there in his own car?
31
00:02:59,681 --> 00:03:02,327
He says he parked
half a mile away but, uh...
32
00:03:02,889 --> 00:03:04,485
Where is he now?
33
00:03:04,573 --> 00:03:08,291
He just rang me,
from the police station.
34
00:03:08,824 --> 00:03:10,306
But it's fine.
35
00:03:11,069 --> 00:03:14,387
If they do link the fire to him,
he's not going to name anyone.
36
00:03:14,518 --> 00:03:17,277
As long as we can look after his family.
37
00:03:17,485 --> 00:03:19,446
He has a wife, two kids.
38
00:03:21,014 --> 00:03:22,131
How much?
39
00:03:23,179 --> 00:03:24,217
Two million.
40
00:03:25,224 --> 00:03:27,664
And how much of that are you getting?
41
00:03:27,951 --> 00:03:31,508
Or he just gives them your name
and gets a reduced sentence.
42
00:03:32,843 --> 00:03:34,918
I know people, Asil.
43
00:03:35,930 --> 00:03:38,006
Only reason I didn't go to them
to deal with Fenwick
44
00:03:38,096 --> 00:03:40,901
is because I thought the police
was watching me.
45
00:03:43,108 --> 00:03:44,944
But they're not watching me now.
46
00:03:54,777 --> 00:03:56,693
You knew what I was when you married me.
47
00:04:05,082 --> 00:04:07,318
In fact, you liked it.
48
00:04:11,017 --> 00:04:12,852
You should have called, Dad.
49
00:04:12,942 --> 00:04:14,857
I would've come and picked you up.
50
00:04:14,947 --> 00:04:17,307
No, it's all right,
51
00:04:17,393 --> 00:04:19,548
bus came almost immediately.
52
00:04:21,362 --> 00:04:23,323
What did the police say?
53
00:04:23,447 --> 00:04:25,603
Oh, they were very nice.
54
00:04:26,375 --> 00:04:30,218
They said that
if I offered to pay it all back,
55
00:04:30,705 --> 00:04:33,465
then I might escape
a custodial sentence.
56
00:04:35,036 --> 00:04:36,712
I might need a day or two,
57
00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:38,523
sort things out with Grace,
58
00:04:40,008 --> 00:04:41,810
and the girls,
59
00:04:42,815 --> 00:04:44,457
and the church.
60
00:04:46,344 --> 00:04:47,986
Lots to sort out.
61
00:04:52,519 --> 00:04:55,678
Excuse me. Sorry, but have you seen
this woman on the paper?
62
00:04:56,168 --> 00:04:58,563
There's a number there as well.
63
00:04:58,654 --> 00:05:01,255
Please. Thanks very much. Cheers.
64
00:05:01,662 --> 00:05:03,178
You're welcome.
65
00:05:06,113 --> 00:05:08,633
Come on, mate. We're both exhausted.
66
00:05:09,521 --> 00:05:10,923
Let's go home and get some rest.
67
00:05:11,005 --> 00:05:12,840
No, you can stop if you want to.
I'm staying.
68
00:05:14,533 --> 00:05:15,525
Excuse me.
69
00:05:17,902 --> 00:05:19,384
Have you seen this woman?
70
00:05:21,871 --> 00:05:23,993
You still say you didn't kill them
71
00:05:24,398 --> 00:05:26,199
but you know who did.
72
00:05:27,124 --> 00:05:28,242
Yes.
73
00:05:30,773 --> 00:05:34,012
- And are you going to tell us?
- Yes.
74
00:05:37,109 --> 00:05:42,435
I want to be moved
to a prison near my boy, Leslie.
75
00:05:43,525 --> 00:05:45,920
And I want a doctor.
76
00:05:46,011 --> 00:05:49,649
I... I don't feel, um...
I don't feel well.
77
00:05:50,221 --> 00:05:52,057
We can certainly look
into all that, Eric.
78
00:05:53,068 --> 00:05:54,904
But first we need a name.
79
00:05:55,434 --> 00:05:59,152
Well, I'm sure you understand this.
80
00:06:00,326 --> 00:06:01,922
It might look like you're just...
81
00:06:02,010 --> 00:06:06,219
You're just making things up,
just, um, toying with us.
82
00:06:08,827 --> 00:06:12,385
You get me
what I've asked for
83
00:06:12,476 --> 00:06:14,392
and then I'll tell you.
84
00:06:25,749 --> 00:06:27,071
What do you think?
85
00:06:27,152 --> 00:06:29,672
I think I was struggling very hard
not to punch him in the face.
86
00:06:29,759 --> 00:06:30,990
You think it's bollocks?
87
00:06:31,082 --> 00:06:32,758
Yeah. I think it's bollocks.
88
00:06:32,846 --> 00:06:34,887
- Except whatever name he gives us...
- Which he won't.
89
00:06:35,132 --> 00:06:37,732
Yeah, but it would be easy enough
to discount very quickly,
90
00:06:37,819 --> 00:06:39,860
so what's the point?
91
00:06:39,944 --> 00:06:42,749
You said it. He's yanking our chain.
92
00:06:42,831 --> 00:06:44,792
Having a bit of fun.
93
00:06:44,876 --> 00:06:47,442
He's had all this, this power
for the last 40 years,
94
00:06:47,522 --> 00:06:49,723
this secret only he's known. And now...
95
00:06:50,570 --> 00:06:52,725
Now it's all gone.
96
00:06:52,815 --> 00:06:55,290
No, all he's got to look forward to
97
00:06:55,382 --> 00:06:57,902
is dying in some pissy prison cell
98
00:06:59,031 --> 00:07:00,832
with East End Arthur to hold his hand.
99
00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:04,196
I just...
100
00:07:05,727 --> 00:07:09,525
Last night, after we charged him,
I sat in my office and I...
101
00:07:11,501 --> 00:07:13,462
Oh, I don't know.
102
00:07:14,830 --> 00:07:16,392
It just felt wrong.
103
00:07:17,436 --> 00:07:20,355
Of course it did.
We wanted him to admit it.
104
00:07:21,606 --> 00:07:24,332
We wanted him to look us in the eye
105
00:07:24,413 --> 00:07:28,257
and tell us that our work had made it
impossible for him to lie.
106
00:07:28,343 --> 00:07:31,423
So we could go to Maureen Sullivan
and tell her that he'd confessed.
107
00:07:32,914 --> 00:07:34,636
Unfortunately, people like Eric Slater,
108
00:07:34,719 --> 00:07:37,193
they don't give a toss
about stuff like that.
109
00:07:42,057 --> 00:07:44,371
Yeah, I think you're right.
110
00:07:45,786 --> 00:07:49,390
But let's, um,
just call his bluff anyway.
111
00:07:49,475 --> 00:07:51,436
And then see what he says.
112
00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,196
What do you think?
113
00:07:54,688 --> 00:07:56,729
I reckon you're going to do
whatever you want to do.
114
00:07:59,821 --> 00:08:02,500
Um, we need to see the Governor, please.
Thank you.
115
00:08:03,349 --> 00:08:05,789
Police investigating
the James Sullivan murder case
116
00:08:05,875 --> 00:08:08,795
have arrested and charged a man
with two counts of murder.
117
00:08:08,883 --> 00:08:10,319
The arrests took place...
118
00:08:10,407 --> 00:08:12,562
It's one of our rentals
but it's vacant at the moment
119
00:08:12,652 --> 00:08:16,370
and it's in the middle of nowhere.
I'll text you the address.
120
00:08:16,502 --> 00:08:18,303
Bring Mum, obviously.
121
00:08:32,782 --> 00:08:34,184
Ah!
122
00:08:37,714 --> 00:08:39,276
Oh, no.
123
00:08:49,222 --> 00:08:52,701
She's in theatre.
They're doing an emergency caesarean.
124
00:08:53,593 --> 00:08:55,589
Oh. What is it?
125
00:08:55,678 --> 00:08:58,803
What, what caused it?
Is it connected in any way
126
00:08:58,886 --> 00:09:02,045
to stress or perhaps...
127
00:09:02,134 --> 00:09:04,255
They said not.
128
00:09:06,024 --> 00:09:07,380
Right.
129
00:09:10,234 --> 00:09:12,470
Can I wait with you?
130
00:09:13,121 --> 00:09:15,847
If Mum comes out I think you
ought to wait in the café.
131
00:09:17,211 --> 00:09:18,533
Of course.
132
00:09:32,770 --> 00:09:34,446
Excuse me.
We looking for a missing person.
133
00:09:34,534 --> 00:09:35,606
If you see her, can you give us a call?
134
00:09:35,697 --> 00:09:37,339
Yeah, yeah. Sure.
135
00:09:37,581 --> 00:09:38,653
Hey!
136
00:09:39,426 --> 00:09:41,467
- Saw her yesterday.
- Where?
137
00:09:42,273 --> 00:09:43,264
Here.
138
00:09:43,877 --> 00:09:45,712
Well, what, was she okay?
139
00:09:46,804 --> 00:09:48,035
Was she?
140
00:09:48,568 --> 00:09:50,724
- I'm really sorry, mate.
- Just tell me.
141
00:09:52,057 --> 00:09:53,129
She jumped.
142
00:09:59,155 --> 00:10:00,797
- What is it?
- Ah...
143
00:10:06,052 --> 00:10:08,618
No. No!
144
00:10:24,377 --> 00:10:26,292
Does she know about us?
145
00:10:30,512 --> 00:10:32,154
Yes.
146
00:10:34,642 --> 00:10:36,125
And, you know,
147
00:10:37,730 --> 00:10:40,934
she's always wanted me
to tell you about her.
148
00:10:42,541 --> 00:10:43,693
And...
149
00:10:46,110 --> 00:10:48,391
how involved in...
150
00:10:48,797 --> 00:10:51,112
in her life were you?
151
00:10:52,326 --> 00:10:54,082
How often did you...
152
00:10:54,731 --> 00:10:56,248
do you see her?
153
00:10:58,621 --> 00:11:00,183
Once a week.
154
00:11:00,867 --> 00:11:02,509
Sometimes twice.
155
00:11:03,754 --> 00:11:06,878
For nearly four decades,
you've seen this woman twice a week?
156
00:11:08,165 --> 00:11:10,479
My daughter, yes.
157
00:11:11,012 --> 00:11:13,133
That's more than you saw us.
158
00:11:13,377 --> 00:11:14,449
Yes.
159
00:11:15,062 --> 00:11:18,266
I wasn't as present for you
as I should have been.
160
00:11:19,432 --> 00:11:21,428
I completely accept that.
161
00:11:22,319 --> 00:11:23,802
At some level,
162
00:11:26,089 --> 00:11:27,731
I was also scared
163
00:11:29,337 --> 00:11:31,572
that if I got too close you'd see me,
164
00:11:33,026 --> 00:11:34,303
the real me,
165
00:11:35,271 --> 00:11:37,312
and that was wrong.
166
00:11:37,397 --> 00:11:40,555
And I'll regret the choices I made
for the rest of my life.
167
00:11:44,013 --> 00:11:45,004
Baby's fine.
168
00:11:45,096 --> 00:11:47,217
Oh, Mum!
169
00:11:48,263 --> 00:11:50,099
Four pounds, one ounce.
170
00:11:50,188 --> 00:11:53,506
Ah, Caroline's in recovery.
The baby's in the special care unit.
171
00:11:53,596 --> 00:11:55,911
- She'd like to see you.
- Okay.
172
00:12:01,015 --> 00:12:03,250
We should be so happy, Robert.
173
00:12:04,664 --> 00:12:06,465
Our first grandchild.
174
00:12:25,475 --> 00:12:26,877
Ah, so...
175
00:12:28,122 --> 00:12:31,486
Uh, we can get you into a prison
which is, um, half an hour
176
00:12:31,570 --> 00:12:33,645
from your son's home.
177
00:12:33,735 --> 00:12:35,857
It has a good psychiatric department
178
00:12:35,941 --> 00:12:38,586
where we can get you properly assessed,
make sure you're getting the right help.
179
00:12:38,668 --> 00:12:41,062
If you cooperate with us now.
180
00:12:41,154 --> 00:12:45,761
If you start asking for other stuff,
um, this dialogue ends.
181
00:12:45,845 --> 00:12:48,046
The process continues to trial and,
182
00:12:49,173 --> 00:12:51,295
trust me,
183
00:12:51,379 --> 00:12:55,222
on the evidence we have,
you will be convicted.
184
00:12:57,434 --> 00:13:00,593
So, um, it is time to talk.
Do you want to...
185
00:13:03,569 --> 00:13:05,325
Resuming interview
with Eric Slater.
186
00:13:05,413 --> 00:13:09,781
Present, DCI Stuart, DI Khan,
Duty Solicitor Elise Hughes.
187
00:13:10,546 --> 00:13:12,701
Time is, uh, it's 10:17.
188
00:13:21,934 --> 00:13:23,131
It was Claire.
189
00:13:27,628 --> 00:13:30,274
I'm sorry, can you say that again
because I didn't hear you?
190
00:13:31,638 --> 00:13:34,284
I said it was Claire, my wife.
191
00:13:38,094 --> 00:13:39,577
It was Claire.
192
00:13:44,550 --> 00:13:47,515
I met Claire at Hunter and Regis
193
00:13:47,597 --> 00:13:49,753
in 1969.
194
00:13:49,883 --> 00:13:52,882
They...
They made air conditioning units.
195
00:13:52,971 --> 00:13:55,251
I worked in accounts and, um,
196
00:13:56,419 --> 00:13:58,061
she was... She was in the typing pool.
197
00:13:58,143 --> 00:14:01,747
I... I've never been very good
with the ladies
198
00:14:01,832 --> 00:14:06,155
but I always felt
very relaxed around her,
199
00:14:06,243 --> 00:14:09,048
we found the same things funny.
200
00:14:09,130 --> 00:14:11,776
Always had plenty to talk about
201
00:14:12,699 --> 00:14:14,935
and one day she just asked me out.
202
00:14:15,546 --> 00:14:18,431
A bit unconventional but I didn't mind.
203
00:14:19,556 --> 00:14:23,845
Our first date was at the Le Carnot
in Queens Park.
204
00:14:25,130 --> 00:14:28,289
We kissed outside and I bought us
205
00:14:29,581 --> 00:14:32,181
saveloy and chips from a takeaway
in Townmead Road.
206
00:14:34,393 --> 00:14:38,442
Yeah, we courted for, uh, a year or so
207
00:14:38,523 --> 00:14:41,488
and then got married
before we moved to Dollis Hill,
208
00:14:41,570 --> 00:14:45,698
where I got the job at, uh,
Arlingham House, which was, uh,
209
00:14:45,781 --> 00:14:47,742
which was round the corner.
210
00:14:47,826 --> 00:14:51,669
1971, uh, that was.
211
00:14:51,795 --> 00:14:54,600
Yes, she wanted kids...
212
00:14:55,565 --> 00:14:59,933
Immediately.
Because, you know, we were neither of us
213
00:15:00,016 --> 00:15:03,539
spring chickens. Which I did, too.
214
00:15:04,547 --> 00:15:05,869
Very much.
215
00:15:08,637 --> 00:15:10,039
But there was a problem.
216
00:15:11,765 --> 00:15:13,726
Which I think
217
00:15:14,131 --> 00:15:18,099
she always knew about in her heart
and, uh,
218
00:15:18,180 --> 00:15:20,747
hoped would change and, uh,
219
00:15:21,308 --> 00:15:23,464
I wanted it to change.
220
00:15:24,476 --> 00:15:26,392
I wanted it to change
221
00:15:27,243 --> 00:15:28,760
but it wouldn't.
222
00:15:29,488 --> 00:15:30,719
I couldn't.
223
00:15:31,533 --> 00:15:32,970
What problem?
224
00:15:37,829 --> 00:15:38,820
I liked men.
225
00:15:41,598 --> 00:15:43,081
I didn't want to.
226
00:15:44,245 --> 00:15:46,320
I absolutely didn't want to.
227
00:15:47,693 --> 00:15:49,130
Just how I was.
228
00:15:49,939 --> 00:15:54,546
You liked men and women or just...
229
00:15:54,831 --> 00:15:57,351
I loved my wife. I mean, I still do.
230
00:15:58,239 --> 00:16:01,124
Very much.
And obviously, I was able to, uh...
231
00:16:01,607 --> 00:16:03,090
You know, we had two boys.
232
00:16:03,171 --> 00:16:07,140
But right from when I was a kid,
I just had this
233
00:16:08,384 --> 00:16:09,946
thing inside of me that made me
234
00:16:11,472 --> 00:16:13,752
- want to be with men.
- Men like Paul West?
235
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,200
I never wanted to hurt West.
236
00:16:18,449 --> 00:16:20,125
He asked me to
237
00:16:22,018 --> 00:16:23,819
rough him up a bit.
238
00:16:24,985 --> 00:16:26,821
Some men seem to like that.
239
00:16:26,910 --> 00:16:29,555
And Jimmy? And Nicholas?
240
00:16:29,637 --> 00:16:32,441
Well, Jimmy, he just wanted money.
241
00:16:32,684 --> 00:16:35,683
Nicholas I met in the pub.
242
00:16:39,501 --> 00:16:41,302
And how did they die?
243
00:16:46,157 --> 00:16:48,962
I would never have hurt Jimmy.
244
00:16:49,365 --> 00:16:50,768
I loved him.
245
00:16:51,731 --> 00:16:54,126
I'd never have hurt him.
246
00:16:56,743 --> 00:16:58,260
I'm sorry.
247
00:16:59,630 --> 00:17:01,272
I'm so sorry.
248
00:17:10,738 --> 00:17:13,817
I think we might need five minutes.
249
00:17:15,269 --> 00:17:17,504
Five minutes. No more, please.
250
00:17:17,595 --> 00:17:19,237
We're taking a short break
in the interview.
251
00:17:19,319 --> 00:17:22,124
Time is, it's 10:41. Would you...
252
00:17:25,975 --> 00:17:28,211
You gotta hand it to the man.
253
00:17:28,301 --> 00:17:30,057
He is smart as fuck.
254
00:17:30,867 --> 00:17:33,672
I mean, if you're going to blame
somebody else,
255
00:17:33,754 --> 00:17:36,993
then choose a woman whose memory is
completely shot and can't even deny it.
256
00:17:38,085 --> 00:17:39,681
His face, though.
257
00:17:41,534 --> 00:17:42,686
What?
258
00:17:44,260 --> 00:17:47,100
It was the same as in his house
when we asked him about Paul West.
259
00:17:48,872 --> 00:17:53,160
And last night, at the station, when
we said we were going to charge him.
260
00:17:54,927 --> 00:17:57,002
When he said it wasn't him.
261
00:17:59,979 --> 00:18:02,215
And now I know why I felt
so crap afterwards.
262
00:18:02,786 --> 00:18:03,777
Why?
263
00:18:05,112 --> 00:18:06,674
Because I believed him.
264
00:18:09,643 --> 00:18:11,399
You call the station.
265
00:18:13,011 --> 00:18:15,485
We need to re-arrest Claire Slater.
266
00:18:22,675 --> 00:18:24,591
Yeah, but, I...
I thought the CPS said that we could...
267
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,485
Yeah, yeah, DFI.
Which one of the sons took her?
268
00:18:28,088 --> 00:18:31,772
Um, uh, I'm not sure. I'll...
I'll call their homes.
269
00:18:32,379 --> 00:18:33,497
Okay.
270
00:18:34,705 --> 00:18:35,696
Bollocks.
271
00:18:36,028 --> 00:18:37,590
Mr Wilton?
272
00:18:37,672 --> 00:18:38,744
Yes.
273
00:18:39,998 --> 00:18:42,472
Your wife was pulled out of the river.
274
00:18:42,564 --> 00:18:44,400
A passer-by jumped in.
275
00:18:45,411 --> 00:18:47,247
She was unconscious when she came out
276
00:18:47,336 --> 00:18:49,377
and was taken immediately
to St Thomas's.
277
00:18:49,461 --> 00:18:51,422
I'm afraid that's all I know.
278
00:18:51,506 --> 00:18:53,307
Murray?
279
00:18:53,471 --> 00:18:55,193
Have we got mobile numbers for the sons?
280
00:18:55,275 --> 00:18:57,271
I don't know, maybe.
281
00:18:58,283 --> 00:18:59,480
Why, are neither of them at the house?
282
00:18:59,566 --> 00:19:02,805
No. I'm not sure they will be
for a few days.
283
00:19:02,894 --> 00:19:05,175
I thought we were done with her and I...
284
00:19:05,260 --> 00:19:07,905
I kind of told them they might want to
lie low for a week or so.
285
00:19:21,259 --> 00:19:25,661
I... I'd stayed late, uh,
to see him, uh, Jimmy
286
00:19:26,793 --> 00:19:30,842
again and, uh,
she must've just guessed.
287
00:19:31,605 --> 00:19:34,365
I think she always knew
when I was, uh...
288
00:19:35,053 --> 00:19:36,649
Well, this...
289
00:19:36,737 --> 00:19:39,542
This one time she came to find me.
290
00:19:41,108 --> 00:19:43,024
And what you need to know
291
00:19:43,915 --> 00:19:46,880
is that she wasn't well mentally.
292
00:19:48,286 --> 00:19:52,609
Uh, we'd just had Leslie
and ever since, she'd been, oh, well...
293
00:19:54,421 --> 00:19:56,941
Very, very, very sick.
294
00:19:57,027 --> 00:19:59,388
And, of course, in those days,
the doctors, they,
295
00:19:59,474 --> 00:20:01,549
they just told you
to pull yourself together.
296
00:20:01,639 --> 00:20:05,642
You know, so she never,
never got any help.
297
00:20:08,375 --> 00:20:12,094
And I never...
I never saw her coming down.
298
00:20:12,185 --> 00:20:14,181
It was dark.
299
00:20:16,435 --> 00:20:18,636
Well, she saw us.
300
00:20:21,528 --> 00:20:23,763
She... She hit him with, um,
301
00:20:24,776 --> 00:20:28,334
with a hammer
she'd found on a workbench.
302
00:20:28,425 --> 00:20:29,987
Just once, but...
303
00:20:30,991 --> 00:20:34,275
I knew from the sound
it made that, uh...
304
00:20:35,883 --> 00:20:39,247
Oh, and then she was screaming at me,
calling me
305
00:20:39,853 --> 00:20:41,209
all the names under the sun.
306
00:20:41,297 --> 00:20:44,262
I was trying to get me hand
over her mouth
307
00:20:44,344 --> 00:20:47,184
to keep her quiet and by the time
I'd sorted her out,
308
00:20:47,271 --> 00:20:48,867
Jimmy, well,
309
00:20:49,918 --> 00:20:52,313
I think he was dead
310
00:20:52,404 --> 00:20:54,970
before he hit the floor, so, uh,
311
00:20:57,256 --> 00:20:59,456
I locked the cellar,
312
00:20:59,662 --> 00:21:01,144
took Claire home,
313
00:21:02,549 --> 00:21:03,905
came back later.
314
00:21:05,877 --> 00:21:08,682
Course I couldn't risk, uh,
315
00:21:09,606 --> 00:21:12,001
carrying him outside so, um,
316
00:21:14,418 --> 00:21:17,178
I buried him there,
317
00:21:18,869 --> 00:21:20,511
later that night.
318
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,920
Will you tell his mother, please,
319
00:21:27,170 --> 00:21:28,492
that I said prayers?
320
00:21:35,550 --> 00:21:38,276
I said prayers for him. I, um,
321
00:21:38,718 --> 00:21:42,687
I looked after him. Of course, I...
I assumed that, um,
322
00:21:43,931 --> 00:21:47,329
you know, uh, we'd be caught,
he'd be found, but he...
323
00:21:48,141 --> 00:21:53,992
He never was. And, oh, that night.
I vowed to stop all of that for good.
324
00:21:55,279 --> 00:21:57,753
And we moved up to, uh, Ely.
325
00:21:57,845 --> 00:21:59,920
Yeah, get away from London.
326
00:22:00,010 --> 00:22:01,527
It worked. Mmm.
327
00:22:02,737 --> 00:22:04,539
Yes, it worked. Um...
328
00:22:05,865 --> 00:22:10,506
Yeah, two years later we had
little Matty and it was all, uh...
329
00:22:11,599 --> 00:22:16,126
You know, but it was the seventies.
There was no work and, um...
330
00:22:16,892 --> 00:22:21,499
I ended up having to get a job
back in London,
331
00:22:21,584 --> 00:22:23,864
two days a week, in Camden.
332
00:22:26,355 --> 00:22:28,477
And I started to...
333
00:22:29,283 --> 00:22:31,757
stay out late again.
334
00:22:32,851 --> 00:22:34,687
So, uh,
335
00:22:34,776 --> 00:22:35,768
one night,
336
00:22:36,821 --> 00:22:38,817
she left the kids with a friend,
337
00:22:39,708 --> 00:22:42,513
came down to London, followed me,
338
00:22:42,836 --> 00:22:44,319
uh...
339
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,798
...from work up to Hampstead
and found me
340
00:22:48,570 --> 00:22:51,375
with Nicholas in my car.
341
00:22:53,181 --> 00:22:55,142
Of course, she went for him.
342
00:22:55,226 --> 00:22:57,541
Pulled him out, punching,
343
00:22:59,958 --> 00:23:03,403
kicking and, uh,
then he was on the ground,
344
00:23:03,768 --> 00:23:05,410
blood everywhere.
345
00:23:05,492 --> 00:23:10,019
She... She always said
that it was him who'd drawn it.
346
00:23:10,584 --> 00:23:11,987
The knife.
347
00:23:12,910 --> 00:23:16,308
But she was, uh, ill,
348
00:23:19,045 --> 00:23:21,485
very ill again, after...
349
00:23:22,694 --> 00:23:24,610
after Matty, so I, um,
350
00:23:26,463 --> 00:23:28,459
I pulled him back,
351
00:23:28,549 --> 00:23:30,191
back into the car.
352
00:23:34,403 --> 00:23:36,558
I want you to know
353
00:23:37,330 --> 00:23:40,695
that I stood outside police stations
354
00:23:41,420 --> 00:23:43,143
dozens of times,
355
00:23:43,786 --> 00:23:45,588
dozens of times,
356
00:23:46,633 --> 00:23:48,036
after Jimmy.
357
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:50,831
And, um,
358
00:23:51,405 --> 00:23:53,047
what did she feel?
359
00:23:54,773 --> 00:23:58,057
Well, when she got better, of course,
she was devastated
360
00:23:58,141 --> 00:24:01,460
by what she'd done.
But, you know, we had a little boy.
361
00:24:01,550 --> 00:24:04,070
I mean, if we'd both gone to prison...
362
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:07,875
And after Nicholas Whitmore?
363
00:24:09,850 --> 00:24:12,655
I drove my car into a tree
364
00:24:12,858 --> 00:24:15,058
two weeks after Nicholas.
365
00:24:16,667 --> 00:24:18,263
I wanted to die.
366
00:24:19,314 --> 00:24:22,358
But actually, in the end,
367
00:24:22,762 --> 00:24:27,051
I think, uh, this, uh, this, um,
368
00:24:27,694 --> 00:24:31,059
was a fairer punishment, I'm sure.
369
00:24:32,626 --> 00:24:36,549
Jimmy and Nicholas's families, uh,
370
00:24:39,283 --> 00:24:40,800
wouldn't agree.
371
00:24:55,322 --> 00:24:57,843
I've already
made calls, Joshie.
372
00:24:59,974 --> 00:25:03,977
People who'll make that little prick
Asil shit out of his ears.
373
00:25:04,064 --> 00:25:07,029
- Dad, the police are coming.
- Huh?
374
00:25:07,793 --> 00:25:10,074
The police are coming in to arrest you,
in five minutes.
375
00:25:10,159 --> 00:25:12,075
They've already pulled up
down the road.
376
00:25:14,891 --> 00:25:16,772
What do you mean, coming in to...
377
00:25:18,860 --> 00:25:21,985
Why are the police coming to arrest me?
378
00:25:34,940 --> 00:25:37,061
Because I told them about Fenwick.
379
00:25:38,589 --> 00:25:39,945
'Cause I think you've
lost your way, Dad.
380
00:25:40,033 --> 00:25:41,070
I think we all have.
381
00:25:42,318 --> 00:25:44,074
And because I love you.
382
00:25:55,872 --> 00:25:57,228
Goodnight, Mum.
383
00:26:56,300 --> 00:26:58,182
I'm so sorry, Ray, I...
384
00:26:58,386 --> 00:27:01,750
Don't you say another word.
Not one word.
385
00:27:06,967 --> 00:27:09,281
It's me who should be apologising.
386
00:27:10,736 --> 00:27:11,967
It's me.
387
00:27:28,339 --> 00:27:32,707
Uh-huh. What? Oh!
388
00:27:34,073 --> 00:27:36,354
Okay, cheers. Thanks.
389
00:27:39,326 --> 00:27:42,212
Nobody has any idea
where Claire or her sons are.
390
00:27:42,294 --> 00:27:44,016
They've disappeared.
391
00:27:51,516 --> 00:27:54,755
Oh, Caz, he's gorgeous.
392
00:27:56,288 --> 00:27:58,045
You can't call him Noah.
393
00:27:58,494 --> 00:28:01,060
Shit. Sorry.
394
00:28:07,516 --> 00:28:10,036
Hello, Ellie speaking.
395
00:28:10,122 --> 00:28:11,274
Hello?
396
00:28:12,167 --> 00:28:15,326
Hi, Ellie, um...
Uh, you don't know me.
397
00:28:16,418 --> 00:28:17,980
My name's Thea.
398
00:28:19,906 --> 00:28:21,708
I'm your half-sister.
399
00:28:27,766 --> 00:28:29,408
And how bad is it?
400
00:28:29,490 --> 00:28:31,086
I spoke to her GP earlier.
401
00:28:31,174 --> 00:28:33,489
I mean, obviously we'd have to
get our own assessment done, but...
402
00:28:33,580 --> 00:28:35,895
Yeah it's... It's fairly advanced.
403
00:28:35,986 --> 00:28:38,381
She first presented four years ago
404
00:28:38,472 --> 00:28:40,593
but the decline in the last few months
405
00:28:40,678 --> 00:28:43,437
- has been particularly rapid apparently.
- Right.
406
00:28:44,206 --> 00:28:46,247
Well, you know what I'm going to say.
407
00:28:46,331 --> 00:28:48,852
Could she properly remember
what she's been accused of?
408
00:28:48,938 --> 00:28:51,538
Could she tell her solicitor
her side of things?
409
00:28:51,625 --> 00:28:54,145
Could she challenge
what witnesses say in court?
410
00:28:54,231 --> 00:28:57,949
And if she can't do any of those things,
she's unfit to plead.
411
00:28:58,441 --> 00:28:59,844
Okay, so...
412
00:28:59,925 --> 00:29:01,966
Well, there are a number
of questions here.
413
00:29:02,050 --> 00:29:04,524
I mean, if he's worked all this out,
414
00:29:04,617 --> 00:29:06,772
why would he not say it was her?
415
00:29:07,704 --> 00:29:10,704
Assisting an offender carries
a maximum sentence of ten years.
416
00:29:11,353 --> 00:29:13,474
Now, given his age he might get,
I don't know,
417
00:29:13,559 --> 00:29:15,680
eight, out in four.
418
00:29:15,764 --> 00:29:18,809
For double murder,
he's going to die in prison.
419
00:29:18,892 --> 00:29:20,693
- Yeah.
- What's your gut feeling?
420
00:29:20,776 --> 00:29:22,007
All of it is true.
421
00:29:22,741 --> 00:29:24,737
Uh, to admit what he did,
my feeling is that...
422
00:29:24,826 --> 00:29:28,350
That was actually harder for him
than, uh, saying he killed them.
423
00:29:28,596 --> 00:29:31,515
Which might sound unbelievable,
you know, until you think that
424
00:29:31,603 --> 00:29:33,564
for the first 30 years of his life,
what he was,
425
00:29:33,648 --> 00:29:36,408
what he did was illegal and, um,
426
00:29:36,495 --> 00:29:38,969
utterly disgusting to 99 percent
of the population.
427
00:29:40,024 --> 00:29:42,145
I think that shame absolutely remains.
428
00:29:42,229 --> 00:29:45,274
Then, why did he admit it, then?
429
00:29:45,357 --> 00:29:47,638
Because in the end, he knew
430
00:29:47,723 --> 00:29:52,091
that his boys were going to, uh,
lose their mother pretty soon anyway.
431
00:29:52,334 --> 00:29:54,216
I mean, already had, to a degree.
432
00:29:54,299 --> 00:29:55,816
So telling us what he did,
433
00:29:55,903 --> 00:29:58,264
I think his reasoning was that
that meant
434
00:29:58,349 --> 00:29:59,467
at least they didn't lose both.
435
00:29:59,672 --> 00:30:02,192
And is there any evidence
to corroborate his version?
436
00:30:02,319 --> 00:30:06,561
Um, I think we'll find evidence that he
had multiple homosexual relationships.
437
00:30:06,649 --> 00:30:09,694
We might find, uh, medical records
438
00:30:09,777 --> 00:30:13,700
confirming she had some form of
post-partum psychosis.
439
00:30:13,947 --> 00:30:15,509
Maybe even
440
00:30:15,591 --> 00:30:17,747
we'll be able to place her
at the hostel,
441
00:30:17,837 --> 00:30:19,992
um, on the night Jimmy died.
442
00:30:20,082 --> 00:30:22,887
And then if we do,
then his narrative is better than ours.
443
00:30:25,015 --> 00:30:27,136
We've got a mobile number
for Matthew Slater's work.
444
00:30:27,822 --> 00:30:30,262
No answer from him yet
but his work have told us where he is.
445
00:30:30,508 --> 00:30:33,633
- Local police are on their way.
- Okay, thank you.
446
00:30:48,472 --> 00:30:50,354
You really are an evil bitch,
aren't you?
447
00:30:51,239 --> 00:30:52,470
Matthew.
448
00:30:53,044 --> 00:30:54,800
How could you have watched
your husband put a body in the ground
449
00:30:54,888 --> 00:30:55,880
and not said anything?
450
00:30:56,332 --> 00:30:58,487
What body? What are you talking about?
451
00:30:58,577 --> 00:31:00,618
How could that ever have seemed
an acceptable thing to do?
452
00:31:00,703 --> 00:31:02,345
- Matthew, you're scaring me.
- Good!
453
00:31:03,790 --> 00:31:06,230
Wonder if you feel as scared
as your grandson was yesterday?
454
00:31:06,316 --> 00:31:08,277
Or as I did when I watched
the news and realised
455
00:31:08,361 --> 00:31:10,676
that this is who we are now!
456
00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:33,422
Oh! Sorry.
457
00:31:33,503 --> 00:31:37,586
- Oh, sorry. Uh...
- No, no, I'll, I'll just...
458
00:31:43,207 --> 00:31:44,724
Hey.
459
00:31:44,811 --> 00:31:47,491
I just walked in on your granddad.
460
00:31:47,578 --> 00:31:49,574
Oh, right, with Annie.
461
00:31:49,663 --> 00:31:51,499
What? I don't know,
it was a little old lady.
462
00:31:51,588 --> 00:31:53,584
Yeah, she works at the Feathers.
463
00:32:02,054 --> 00:32:04,289
- Sorry about that.
- No, no, no. It's fine, you know.
464
00:32:04,379 --> 00:32:05,816
- I shouldn't have, um, barged in...
- No, no, it's your house.
465
00:32:05,903 --> 00:32:07,340
No, but you know,
I should've knocked or...
466
00:32:08,790 --> 00:32:10,831
- Anyway, I'm bushed so, uh...
- Sure, no problem.
467
00:32:10,916 --> 00:32:12,911
- I'm going to turn in.
- Yeah.
468
00:32:13,001 --> 00:32:14,802
- Night.
- Night, then.
469
00:32:15,487 --> 00:32:16,718
That went well.
470
00:32:22,424 --> 00:32:23,415
Class.
471
00:32:28,559 --> 00:32:30,920
You have absolutely no proof
472
00:32:31,005 --> 00:32:34,563
my client was connected
to these events in any way.
473
00:32:34,854 --> 00:32:37,090
And if either of you have kids,
474
00:32:37,180 --> 00:32:38,583
I don't need to tell you
just how many reasons
475
00:32:38,664 --> 00:32:40,625
there could be for Josh
saying what he did,
476
00:32:40,709 --> 00:32:42,990
without any connection
to the truth whatsoever.
477
00:32:44,599 --> 00:32:48,396
Which is all well and good, Mr Archer,
but doesn't really answer my question.
478
00:32:51,135 --> 00:32:53,370
Did you pay to have Gordon Fenwick
murdered, Sir Phillip?
479
00:32:54,062 --> 00:32:58,304
If you have no further questions,
I think we'll be on our way.
480
00:33:00,277 --> 00:33:03,003
They've got nothing to hold you here,
Sir Phillip. Let's go.
481
00:33:03,084 --> 00:33:04,075
Yes.
482
00:33:05,811 --> 00:33:08,331
- Uh, I'm sorry?
- Sir Phillip?
483
00:33:08,417 --> 00:33:09,535
Yes.
484
00:33:12,908 --> 00:33:17,356
I paid for Gordon Fenwick to be killed.
485
00:33:29,629 --> 00:33:33,598
- Early.
- Listen, um, last night...
486
00:33:33,679 --> 00:33:37,283
- Please. There's no need.
- No, I just wanted to say that
487
00:33:37,369 --> 00:33:40,209
I'm trying to look forward, Cass.
488
00:33:40,296 --> 00:33:43,853
Because life goes on, doesn't it?
489
00:33:48,155 --> 00:33:50,310
And just live your life for you, Dad.
490
00:33:50,401 --> 00:33:52,636
Just... Just do what makes you happy.
491
00:33:52,766 --> 00:33:55,492
Please. Please, please.
492
00:34:07,523 --> 00:34:08,800
Hey there, Miss.
493
00:34:08,886 --> 00:34:10,562
Hello, sweetheart.
494
00:34:11,573 --> 00:34:13,055
How lovely to see you again.
495
00:34:31,221 --> 00:34:33,867
Well, if you could
conclusively prove she did it,
496
00:34:33,948 --> 00:34:36,753
then a judge and a jury could
hear the prosecution evidence,
497
00:34:36,835 --> 00:34:38,477
despite her being unfit to plead.
498
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:40,162
Except they can't convict her.
499
00:34:40,243 --> 00:34:43,608
No, but the court is at least
acknowledging the facts,
500
00:34:43,692 --> 00:34:47,535
which might be better
for Jimmy and Nicholas's family.
501
00:34:48,865 --> 00:34:50,016
And what happens to her?
502
00:34:50,108 --> 00:34:51,989
Well, she'd just get
the supervision order.
503
00:34:52,073 --> 00:34:54,593
Which is what she'd get
if it didn't go to court.
504
00:34:57,606 --> 00:35:02,008
Right, so she causes the death
of two people,
505
00:35:02,097 --> 00:35:05,941
all the pain those two families
have been through
506
00:35:06,027 --> 00:35:08,992
and then sees out her days
in a care home.
507
00:35:16,613 --> 00:35:18,813
Do you recognise him, Claire?
508
00:35:25,996 --> 00:35:28,232
No, I don't think so. Sorry.
509
00:35:37,264 --> 00:35:38,666
You don't remember hurting him?
510
00:35:41,113 --> 00:35:42,709
No, I don't. I'm trying.
511
00:35:52,983 --> 00:35:56,141
It was in the cellar of Arlingham House,
512
00:35:57,794 --> 00:35:59,311
July, 1976.
513
00:36:05,173 --> 00:36:06,575
You went to find your husband.
514
00:36:12,431 --> 00:36:14,506
- What?
- I don't know.
515
00:36:14,596 --> 00:36:16,957
You remembered something?
516
00:36:18,445 --> 00:36:21,684
Maybe I remember this boy.
Maybe, I don't know.
517
00:36:36,129 --> 00:36:38,090
Do you, um, remember
518
00:36:39,978 --> 00:36:43,423
being unwell after
your children were born, Claire?
519
00:36:47,878 --> 00:36:49,634
Maybe, I don't know.
520
00:36:52,890 --> 00:36:55,491
Do you remember
that your husband liked men?
521
00:36:57,221 --> 00:36:58,623
Oh.
522
00:37:01,912 --> 00:37:04,227
Was it to do with that?
523
00:37:05,682 --> 00:37:08,248
You know what?
I'm really not happy with this.
524
00:37:08,328 --> 00:37:10,164
We need to stop.
525
00:37:10,253 --> 00:37:13,412
I'm so sorry if I hurt anyone.
526
00:37:13,501 --> 00:37:16,021
If I could remember I'd tell you,
but I can't.
527
00:37:16,107 --> 00:37:18,582
I'm sorry...
528
00:37:35,034 --> 00:37:37,315
How is it I feel sorry for her?
529
00:38:03,304 --> 00:38:06,063
Hi, Maureen. Can I come in?
530
00:38:23,393 --> 00:38:24,385
Hi.
531
00:38:47,332 --> 00:38:49,806
So what I wanted to
tell you, Grace, was...
532
00:38:51,984 --> 00:38:55,622
Actually, Dad, Robert,
533
00:38:56,675 --> 00:38:59,480
he very much wanted
to tell you about me.
534
00:38:59,843 --> 00:39:03,322
In fact, from the moment he found out,
when I was about 18 months old.
535
00:39:04,093 --> 00:39:07,013
He desperately wanted to admit
his mistake to you.
536
00:39:08,905 --> 00:39:11,106
But my mother, she...
537
00:39:12,675 --> 00:39:14,671
Well, she was scared
she would lose me somehow.
538
00:39:15,802 --> 00:39:19,520
So she told him
that if he ever did tell you,
539
00:39:21,456 --> 00:39:23,896
he would never see me again.
540
00:39:24,383 --> 00:39:27,828
So he chose to live this terrible lie
541
00:39:29,556 --> 00:39:33,114
so he could be there for you
and for me.
542
00:39:35,010 --> 00:39:37,290
And be the best father he could
to all of us.
543
00:39:38,378 --> 00:39:39,814
But him not telling you,
544
00:39:42,709 --> 00:39:45,468
well, that came from a place
of love and decency.
545
00:39:46,037 --> 00:39:51,568
And I just hope that someday
you'll be able to forgive him for it.
546
00:39:55,460 --> 00:39:58,504
Every time I turn a corner,
I meet someone from the old days.
547
00:39:58,588 --> 00:40:01,507
Like a bloody school reunion.
548
00:40:03,881 --> 00:40:06,766
And next week?
How are you feeling about the trial?
549
00:40:07,931 --> 00:40:10,531
Next week's just
a bit of theatre, isn't it?
550
00:40:12,542 --> 00:40:15,826
It's the last two months
that have really mattered.
551
00:40:18,597 --> 00:40:20,080
Thinking time.
552
00:40:22,206 --> 00:40:23,882
All I ever wanted
553
00:40:26,617 --> 00:40:29,377
was for my children
to be better than me.
554
00:40:31,108 --> 00:40:34,107
The start I had,
the things I was taught, things I did
555
00:40:35,679 --> 00:40:37,082
back then...
556
00:40:38,727 --> 00:40:40,642
Everything I've ever achieved since,
557
00:40:40,732 --> 00:40:43,856
beneath the ambition,
the money and the vanity,
558
00:40:43,939 --> 00:40:47,384
it was all really to buy you your escape
559
00:40:49,232 --> 00:40:50,464
from me.
560
00:40:52,039 --> 00:40:54,000
What I was.
561
00:40:55,608 --> 00:40:57,365
I'm so proud of you.
562
00:41:02,305 --> 00:41:03,787
Both of you.
563
00:41:05,152 --> 00:41:07,752
Of what you did for me
and what you are.
564
00:41:14,495 --> 00:41:18,383
All your visits, Mr Slater,
your mother's a very lucky woman.
565
00:41:18,505 --> 00:41:21,264
No, no, I'm the lucky one.
566
00:41:41,281 --> 00:41:42,603
Me again.
567
00:41:47,376 --> 00:41:49,372
Does she ever mention me?
568
00:41:50,022 --> 00:41:52,097
She can hardly speak now, Dad. She...
569
00:41:52,709 --> 00:41:55,024
She doesn't, she doesn't know me.
570
00:41:55,115 --> 00:41:57,681
- Or Matt.
- Matt sees her, does he?
571
00:42:04,498 --> 00:42:07,816
I mean,
I know he already knows but, uh,
572
00:42:07,906 --> 00:42:09,822
I'd always love to see him.
573
00:42:10,793 --> 00:42:12,310
Tell him again.
574
00:42:14,202 --> 00:42:15,684
I'm so sorry.
575
00:42:52,015 --> 00:42:54,615
How comes you always walk in when Baz
has got his shorts off, Miss?
576
00:42:56,426 --> 00:42:57,417
Timing, Curtis.
577
00:42:57,509 --> 00:42:59,025
Good timing.
578
00:43:03,604 --> 00:43:04,595
Let's move, please.
579
00:44:01,967 --> 00:44:09,987
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