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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:02:22,509 --> 00:02:24,033 This is an illegal gathering. 2 00:02:24,844 --> 00:02:27,233 You must disperse immediately. 3 00:03:15,461 --> 00:03:16,450 Stay down. 4 00:03:25,572 --> 00:03:26,322 Pass. 5 00:03:31,544 --> 00:03:35,007 You're in Soweto. Why? 6 00:03:35,114 --> 00:03:36,923 My sister lives in District Three. 7 00:03:40,119 --> 00:03:41,199 What's in the back? 8 00:03:42,322 --> 00:03:43,243 Furniture. 9 00:04:17,924 --> 00:04:18,811 Wait. 10 00:04:25,298 --> 00:04:26,413 Okay, it's fine. 11 00:05:07,907 --> 00:05:10,944 He was out collecting wood with his father and his sister. 12 00:05:18,284 --> 00:05:22,004 The Police came out of nowhere and grabbed us and took us to the bridge. 13 00:05:27,093 --> 00:05:29,823 They took my dad and tied him in a canvas bag... 14 00:05:29,829 --> 00:05:31,046 and dropped him into the river. 15 00:05:34,634 --> 00:05:37,057 They made us watch him drown. 16 00:05:42,809 --> 00:05:47,587 They told us to go home and tell the others the price for being ANC. 17 00:05:49,282 --> 00:05:50,579 We have a word... 18 00:05:51,584 --> 00:05:52,664 'Ubuntu'. 19 00:05:53,953 --> 00:05:55,511 It means a person's humanity... 20 00:05:55,555 --> 00:05:58,285 is measured according to their relationship with others. 21 00:05:59,359 --> 00:06:03,659 We tell the children that these people, who commit these crimes... 22 00:06:05,398 --> 00:06:06,956 have lost their humanity... 23 00:06:07,900 --> 00:06:10,937 and are as much victims of Apartheid as we are. 24 00:06:16,909 --> 00:06:18,058 Who the hell is he? 25 00:06:18,611 --> 00:06:21,546 He's a friend I can vouch for him. 26 00:06:21,547 --> 00:06:23,754 He's here to help. He's from Consolidated Goldfields. 27 00:06:23,783 --> 00:06:25,990 To talk about fund raising for our schools programme. 28 00:06:26,018 --> 00:06:27,383 We didn't ask for his hand-outs. 29 00:06:27,420 --> 00:06:29,559 - Leave him be! Let him be! - Michael Young. 30 00:06:40,833 --> 00:06:41,504 Sir? 31 00:06:43,469 --> 00:06:44,993 Go, go, go! 32 00:06:51,177 --> 00:06:53,828 - It's Michael Young. - What progress? 33 00:06:57,550 --> 00:07:01,577 This isn't going to work for us. We need to aim higher. 34 00:07:02,021 --> 00:07:04,637 Safer to stay in the foothills. 35 00:07:04,891 --> 00:07:07,894 The more visible, the more vulnerable we are. 36 00:07:16,002 --> 00:07:18,072 Yes, it's much safer. Yes. 37 00:07:46,365 --> 00:07:47,889 A bit of hush. 38 00:07:49,101 --> 00:07:52,639 It is my pleasure to present Thabo Mbeki. 39 00:07:52,672 --> 00:07:55,709 The African National Congress' Head of Information... 40 00:07:55,775 --> 00:07:59,461 who is here representing the ANC president, Oliver Tambo. 41 00:07:59,479 --> 00:08:02,380 I know that you'll make Mr Mbeki feel most welcome. 42 00:08:13,793 --> 00:08:15,670 My name is Thabo Mbeki... 43 00:08:16,896 --> 00:08:18,670 and I am a terrorist. 44 00:08:21,234 --> 00:08:23,998 No doubt, that is what you have been told. 45 00:08:26,005 --> 00:08:28,656 No incendiary devices. 46 00:08:29,075 --> 00:08:32,078 No concealed weapons. 47 00:08:33,145 --> 00:08:36,387 I am just a man, as you are. 48 00:08:37,984 --> 00:08:41,875 Every day the President of South Africa... 49 00:08:42,622 --> 00:08:44,889 under the mantle of his State of Emergency... 50 00:08:44,924 --> 00:08:47,758 deploys thousands more of his troops in the townships... 51 00:08:47,793 --> 00:08:52,699 brutally crushing the rising resistance to his oppressive regime. 52 00:08:52,734 --> 00:08:57,606 Yet, the UK, is still one of South Africa's leading trading partners. 53 00:08:57,641 --> 00:08:59,037 Every company... 54 00:08:59,071 --> 00:09:03,015 every financial institution which continues to invest there... 55 00:09:03,050 --> 00:09:06,960 is a source of political and economic strength to P.W. Botha. 56 00:09:09,015 --> 00:09:13,452 If it is true that money talks, then let it speak, clearly. 57 00:09:14,253 --> 00:09:19,646 Let your voice join ours when we say the bloodshed of our people must end. 58 00:09:20,860 --> 00:09:23,590 The time to shout 'enough' has come. 59 00:09:24,564 --> 00:09:28,102 The time for you to act is here. 60 00:09:49,488 --> 00:09:51,365 Mr Mbeki? 61 00:09:52,058 --> 00:09:52,911 Michael Young. 62 00:09:52,959 --> 00:09:56,269 Public Affairs Director, Consolidated Goldfields. 63 00:09:57,296 --> 00:09:59,241 Tell me how we can help. 64 00:10:01,968 --> 00:10:06,120 It's not an offer to make lightly, Mr Young. We might take you up on it. 65 00:10:06,155 --> 00:10:07,732 It wasn't made lightly. 66 00:10:08,708 --> 00:10:12,860 As you say, we too have an incentive to ensure your country's survival. 67 00:10:18,117 --> 00:10:20,574 We have this recurring nightmare, Mr Young... 68 00:10:21,387 --> 00:10:24,220 that one day the South African Government will send us a message... 69 00:10:24,223 --> 00:10:27,317 indicating that it is ready to talk to us about ending apartheid. 70 00:10:27,927 --> 00:10:31,954 Because of our antagonism and mistrust, we fail to hear the message. 71 00:10:32,365 --> 00:10:34,139 We fail to respond. 72 00:10:35,301 --> 00:10:36,598 We miss the moment. 73 00:10:40,906 --> 00:10:42,123 Thank you. 74 00:10:49,615 --> 00:10:52,709 An apparatchik working for a reactionary outfit like Goldfields? 75 00:10:52,718 --> 00:10:53,951 Is that what it's come to? 76 00:10:53,986 --> 00:10:57,114 The fact that he works for Goldfields means he'll be listened to. 77 00:10:58,357 --> 00:11:00,124 You know a better entry card? 78 00:11:00,159 --> 00:11:02,332 And if the Public Affairs thing is just a front? 79 00:11:02,361 --> 00:11:03,885 I doubt he's Ml6. 80 00:11:09,802 --> 00:11:10,917 I need a word. 81 00:11:17,943 --> 00:11:18,932 He's expecting you. 82 00:11:22,014 --> 00:11:22,764 Come in. 83 00:11:27,319 --> 00:11:30,049 I think I have a way forward on our problem. 84 00:11:30,523 --> 00:11:31,535 I'm listening. 85 00:11:55,948 --> 00:11:56,960 Mr Vijoan? 86 00:11:57,583 --> 00:12:00,552 It's Michael Young. I called last week about the meetings... 87 00:12:00,553 --> 00:12:04,375 I'm trying to set up between the ANC and leading Afrikaners. 88 00:12:04,410 --> 00:12:06,335 The risk is too great. 89 00:12:06,358 --> 00:12:08,747 I have a young family to think of. 90 00:12:08,794 --> 00:12:10,534 Please don't call me again. 91 00:12:17,436 --> 00:12:19,575 They're just exploratory meetings... 92 00:12:19,638 --> 00:12:22,844 and someone representing the Dutch Reform Church... 93 00:12:22,879 --> 00:12:26,010 who better to act as a mediator between the two sides? 94 00:12:26,045 --> 00:12:30,960 It's not the policy of our church to involve ourselves in politics. 95 00:12:30,995 --> 00:12:33,055 I can't help you. I am sorry. 96 00:13:21,433 --> 00:13:25,501 There are those on both sides who favour force over dialogue. 97 00:13:25,536 --> 00:13:29,570 To maintain secrecy, it's best if we hold the talks in the U.K. 98 00:13:29,605 --> 00:13:32,090 In South Africa secrets are a way of life. 99 00:13:32,111 --> 00:13:35,046 They also have a habit of exploding in your face. 100 00:13:35,047 --> 00:13:36,958 I can't be bothered. I'm sorry. 101 00:13:55,634 --> 00:13:58,501 - Can I use your toilet? - Yeah, it's around the back. 102 00:15:12,578 --> 00:15:16,366 Love has a habit of pushing us into the arms of philosophy. 103 00:15:16,916 --> 00:15:19,271 An earthquake claims a thousand lives. 104 00:15:19,885 --> 00:15:22,206 Families bludgeoned to death by intruders. 105 00:15:22,821 --> 00:15:24,482 The death of a much loved child. 106 00:15:24,924 --> 00:15:28,462 Such events prompt us to ask how a benign deity can allow... 107 00:15:29,261 --> 00:15:31,001 such tragedies to happen. 108 00:15:37,269 --> 00:15:43,481 The task of Philosophy is to rise above the futility and chaos of daily life... 109 00:15:43,516 --> 00:15:46,139 to seek a deeper truth to our existence. 110 00:15:48,948 --> 00:15:52,156 I'll finish with the words of Pascal. 111 00:15:53,185 --> 00:15:56,154 'If man's dignity lies in thought... 112 00:15:57,122 --> 00:16:01,013 then let us all strive to think well.' 113 00:16:03,062 --> 00:16:04,177 Good day. 114 00:16:07,166 --> 00:16:08,178 Be warned! 115 00:16:08,233 --> 00:16:11,441 Those who have not yet handed in their assignment on Freedom and the State... 116 00:16:11,476 --> 00:16:14,235 will find their own freedom curtailed. 117 00:16:16,575 --> 00:16:19,066 Mr Gruber, make my day. 118 00:16:19,511 --> 00:16:22,412 Treat yourself to a new typewriter ribbon. 119 00:16:33,425 --> 00:16:35,086 Mr Young, I assume? 120 00:16:43,836 --> 00:16:46,043 An audacious mission you've undertaken. 121 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,463 A mission impossible, might be more apt. 122 00:16:50,476 --> 00:16:52,068 What you are asking is impossible. 123 00:16:52,845 --> 00:16:57,111 No sane man would put his livelihood, not to mention his life... 124 00:16:57,883 --> 00:17:00,204 on the line to break bread with the devil. 125 00:17:00,452 --> 00:17:03,068 In this country, those who go public against Apartheid... 126 00:17:03,155 --> 00:17:05,476 acquire the status of a pariah. 127 00:17:05,824 --> 00:17:08,554 Yet, you still agreed to meet with me? 128 00:17:09,728 --> 00:17:14,472 You say Consolidated Goldfields have agreed to fund these meetings? 129 00:17:16,035 --> 00:17:18,936 Your founder would turn in his grave. 130 00:17:20,239 --> 00:17:23,993 Rhodes knew that market forces can succeed where politicians fail. 131 00:17:24,028 --> 00:17:26,264 You are being disingenuous. 132 00:17:26,278 --> 00:17:30,203 This is about your company protecting it's investments here, is it not? 133 00:17:30,238 --> 00:17:34,414 They know apartheid is an anathema morally and economically. 134 00:17:34,449 --> 00:17:36,490 They've colluded with it long enough. 135 00:17:43,996 --> 00:17:50,037 It's an open secret that a silent coup has taken place in our country. 136 00:17:50,569 --> 00:17:55,006 Botha no longer consults Parliament or the cabinet... 137 00:17:55,541 --> 00:17:58,749 but rules in the manner of a medieval monarch. 138 00:17:59,378 --> 00:18:03,200 Only his inner sanctum of security advisors have his ear. 139 00:18:04,049 --> 00:18:07,257 It's they who wield the power, and they are not interested... 140 00:18:08,053 --> 00:18:10,066 in a political solution. 141 00:18:22,568 --> 00:18:25,298 Like most Afrikaners, I find... 142 00:18:25,304 --> 00:18:29,161 the murderous methodology of the ANC morally repugnant... 143 00:18:29,196 --> 00:18:33,408 and the idea of cosying up to them is abhorrent... 144 00:18:33,443 --> 00:18:35,357 even the thought makes me retch. 145 00:18:49,428 --> 00:18:53,421 I'm sorry that you had a wasted journey. 146 00:18:54,900 --> 00:18:57,289 I am not the man for your mission. 147 00:19:15,387 --> 00:19:16,854 Get on the move. 148 00:20:23,255 --> 00:20:25,923 If you are not otherwise engaged, Mr Mandela... 149 00:20:25,958 --> 00:20:28,859 the Minister of Justice invites you to join him for tea. 150 00:20:29,695 --> 00:20:33,176 I'm told it's cucumber sandwiches this time. 151 00:20:37,636 --> 00:20:39,957 It seems you have another visitor, too. 152 00:20:39,972 --> 00:20:42,042 The Head of National Intelligence, no less. 153 00:20:43,208 --> 00:20:45,153 Doctor Barnard is here? 154 00:20:48,914 --> 00:20:51,678 A moment if you please, Mr Brand. 155 00:21:50,309 --> 00:21:51,833 Copy, control. 156 00:21:58,984 --> 00:21:59,905 Thank you. 157 00:22:00,519 --> 00:22:03,386 Control. Confirm subject's arrival. 158 00:22:12,764 --> 00:22:15,788 Mr Coatsee. Good to see you again. 159 00:22:15,823 --> 00:22:18,812 Good to see you too, Mr Mandela. 160 00:22:19,504 --> 00:22:22,951 Doctor Neil Barnard is here, Head of National Intelligence. 161 00:22:22,986 --> 00:22:25,193 He's asked to sit in on our discussions. 162 00:22:25,210 --> 00:22:27,826 Mr Nelson Mandela. Doctor Neil Barnard. 163 00:22:29,014 --> 00:22:33,963 I've waited a long time for this opportunity, Doctor. 164 00:22:34,319 --> 00:22:35,877 Likewise, sir. 165 00:23:17,329 --> 00:23:19,786 ...used tear gas to disperse the crowd... 166 00:23:19,798 --> 00:23:21,197 in what a security forces spokesperson described as... 167 00:23:21,233 --> 00:23:24,401 'necessary measures to contain the violence'. 168 00:23:24,436 --> 00:23:27,974 And, there were further arrests when Eug�ne Terre'Blanche's AWB party... 169 00:23:28,009 --> 00:23:31,842 held a recruitment rally, four people were detained. 170 00:23:31,877 --> 00:23:36,109 If they want to take this country by force and violence... 171 00:23:36,144 --> 00:23:40,758 they'll meet us over the barrel of a gun. 172 00:23:40,793 --> 00:23:42,630 A! W! B! 173 00:24:11,349 --> 00:24:12,270 Michael Young. 174 00:24:13,485 --> 00:24:18,263 I cannot stand by and do nothing while my country is reduced to ashes. 175 00:24:18,857 --> 00:24:20,256 I'll come to your meeting. 176 00:24:21,326 --> 00:24:22,918 Let me know where and when. 177 00:24:43,915 --> 00:24:45,792 Doctor Barnard, Mr President. 178 00:24:47,953 --> 00:24:51,434 - Did he take the bait? - And deny his moment of destiny? 179 00:24:53,258 --> 00:24:56,864 - He took it alright. - Vanity... vanity. 180 00:25:20,752 --> 00:25:22,014 Tambo's waiting to see you. 181 00:25:24,489 --> 00:25:27,834 Oliver, maybe these talks are the opportunity we've been waiting for. 182 00:25:27,869 --> 00:25:29,930 Yes, but not everyone is going to like it. 183 00:25:30,161 --> 00:25:32,106 Many will see this as a betrayal. 184 00:25:32,163 --> 00:25:36,463 So, we need to keep this between us, and report back only to me. 185 00:25:36,468 --> 00:25:37,799 Be careful, Thabo. 186 00:25:59,024 --> 00:25:59,843 We're in. 187 00:26:00,892 --> 00:26:02,735 Some housekeeping notes. 188 00:26:03,161 --> 00:26:05,482 No telephone communication with the ANC either... 189 00:26:05,497 --> 00:26:07,567 in Lusaka or here in London. 190 00:26:08,366 --> 00:26:12,291 South African Intelligence have our phones tapped. Yours too, by now. 191 00:26:12,904 --> 00:26:15,805 Don't think because you're back in London you're not vulnerable. 192 00:26:16,007 --> 00:26:20,000 Car and letter bombs are the weapons of choice of the security agents. 193 00:26:20,035 --> 00:26:21,208 Welcome to our world. 194 00:26:29,454 --> 00:26:31,321 The board get wind we're jumping into bed... 195 00:26:31,356 --> 00:26:34,052 with a bunch of Kalashnikov carrying terrorists... 196 00:26:35,093 --> 00:26:38,062 we'll both be out on our ears. You realise that? 197 00:26:38,063 --> 00:26:39,758 They can't ignore reality. 198 00:26:40,365 --> 00:26:43,737 Every day Botha gets more isolated, the country more ungovernable. 199 00:26:43,772 --> 00:26:47,110 Something doesn't give, and soon the company will go down with it. 200 00:26:49,007 --> 00:26:51,908 You see your role in this as what? 201 00:26:51,910 --> 00:26:54,561 To create a neutral arena and step aside. 202 00:26:54,946 --> 00:26:58,256 Hope that they can see each other as men, rather than as enemies. 203 00:26:58,283 --> 00:26:59,983 A risky strategy. 204 00:27:00,018 --> 00:27:01,895 Others are risking more than that. 205 00:27:03,888 --> 00:27:06,857 Heroics don't cut much ice with shareholders. 206 00:27:12,998 --> 00:27:17,913 A 'need to know' basis. Only. Trust no-one. Confide in no-one. 207 00:27:18,536 --> 00:27:22,939 I'll bury the costs under Research and Development, or some such. 208 00:27:25,143 --> 00:27:29,705 Arrangements for my personal affairs should anything happen to me. 209 00:27:29,981 --> 00:27:32,404 - You think that's likely? - A precaution. 210 00:27:36,688 --> 00:27:37,609 Michael? 211 00:27:38,990 --> 00:27:40,223 If this ever gets out... 212 00:27:40,258 --> 00:27:43,796 I shall have to deny all knowledge of it and, disown you. 213 00:27:45,764 --> 00:27:48,562 And, I'll be nothing, if not convincing. 214 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:16,525 Passport? Ticket? 215 00:28:18,229 --> 00:28:19,150 Taxi. 216 00:28:29,307 --> 00:28:30,387 It's okay. 217 00:28:36,915 --> 00:28:38,030 Professor. 218 00:28:42,887 --> 00:28:44,252 In the nick of time. 219 00:28:49,561 --> 00:28:50,994 May I come in? 220 00:29:07,312 --> 00:29:10,246 In public, Botha's still holding the party line... 221 00:29:10,281 --> 00:29:13,557 that you must defeat terrorists before you can negotiate with them. 222 00:29:14,853 --> 00:29:18,391 Privately, he wants you to continue the dialogue for as long as possible. 223 00:29:18,990 --> 00:29:22,403 The more we know about the ANC's fault lines in their power structure... 224 00:29:23,261 --> 00:29:26,128 the better we are equipped to control the end game. 225 00:29:26,163 --> 00:29:28,931 So, I am to act as your spy? 226 00:29:32,504 --> 00:29:35,302 A go between is more what we had in mind. 227 00:29:37,842 --> 00:29:42,211 Have you thought why you were chosen to lead these talks, Professor? 228 00:29:44,149 --> 00:29:45,992 You're a soft target. 229 00:29:46,017 --> 00:29:49,225 They think your reputation as an advocate for social justice... 230 00:29:49,260 --> 00:29:51,097 gives them a way in. 231 00:29:53,525 --> 00:29:55,026 Play along. 232 00:29:56,294 --> 00:29:58,546 Mbeki must think you are just a... 233 00:29:59,831 --> 00:30:02,891 respected academic on a fact-finding mission. 234 00:30:03,334 --> 00:30:06,336 A soft target is not a soft touch, Doctor. 235 00:30:06,371 --> 00:30:09,238 I'm going to that meeting to hear what they have to say. 236 00:30:09,641 --> 00:30:12,576 As importantly for them to hear what I have to say. 237 00:30:13,511 --> 00:30:15,900 The whole process is futile otherwise. 238 00:30:16,247 --> 00:30:18,829 Ja, but the thing is, you see, Professor. 239 00:30:19,250 --> 00:30:20,683 You don't co-operate... 240 00:30:21,886 --> 00:30:24,889 your participation in the process will be terminated. 241 00:30:32,030 --> 00:30:34,897 My direct line. Call me. 242 00:30:38,136 --> 00:30:41,993 You need to be vigilant about incendiary devices now. 243 00:30:43,074 --> 00:30:45,531 Always check under your car before using it. 244 00:30:47,212 --> 00:30:49,760 I'll send my people over to show you how. 245 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:23,838 And your ticket? 246 00:31:23,882 --> 00:31:25,725 Don't forget to ring Albi Sachs. 247 00:31:34,492 --> 00:31:35,242 Hello? 248 00:31:35,293 --> 00:31:36,954 This is Thabo Mbeki. I need a quick word. 249 00:31:36,995 --> 00:31:40,954 He's just left for the airport. I'll try and catch him, hold on. 250 00:31:42,967 --> 00:31:43,854 Albi! 251 00:31:50,975 --> 00:31:51,930 Albi! 252 00:32:01,653 --> 00:32:03,393 - Get another line. - Another line, please! 253 00:32:42,460 --> 00:32:45,975 Background checks on staff. And they know that security is an issue? 254 00:32:46,010 --> 00:32:47,398 I briefed them this morning. 255 00:32:47,432 --> 00:32:50,299 Brief them every morning. Just keep hammering it home. 256 00:32:55,373 --> 00:32:58,342 - This is Mr Mambenki's room. - Mbeki. 257 00:33:01,245 --> 00:33:04,078 - All the rooms are ensuite. - It's nice. 258 00:33:06,551 --> 00:33:10,123 - And, next door? - His colleague. Mr... Pahad. 259 00:33:10,655 --> 00:33:14,157 Put Professor Esterhuyse next to Mbeki. 260 00:33:14,192 --> 00:33:17,730 We need to mix them up. Maximise the opportunity for chance meetings. 261 00:33:17,762 --> 00:33:20,526 - Right. - Good. Thank you. 262 00:34:11,983 --> 00:34:15,908 'Welcome' seems a meagre word for such an occasion. 263 00:34:16,621 --> 00:34:20,136 But, it is no less sincere, all the same. 264 00:34:21,359 --> 00:34:24,396 Now, as you can see from the agenda I drew up... 265 00:34:24,929 --> 00:34:27,102 we have a lot of ground to cover. 266 00:34:27,465 --> 00:34:31,936 So, if we're to get through it I think it is essential that... 267 00:34:31,971 --> 00:34:33,404 With respect, Mr Young. 268 00:34:33,471 --> 00:34:36,406 Since you are not South African, it's not your agenda. 269 00:34:36,974 --> 00:34:38,236 It's ours. 270 00:34:41,813 --> 00:34:43,846 And, with respect, Mr Mbeki... 271 00:34:43,881 --> 00:34:48,250 I must remind you that the agenda was agreed by both sides in advance. 272 00:34:56,894 --> 00:35:01,194 Item one. The ANC perspective. 273 00:35:04,502 --> 00:35:10,065 We know that you Afrikaners have paid in blood for your country. 274 00:35:10,541 --> 00:35:11,906 As, we have. 275 00:35:12,910 --> 00:35:15,162 We know too, that it was from your suffering... 276 00:35:15,179 --> 00:35:17,830 that a system of apartheid was incubated. 277 00:35:19,083 --> 00:35:22,871 The need to dominate is often a consequence of survival. 278 00:35:22,906 --> 00:35:24,970 Our problem is, as exiles, we are... 279 00:35:25,005 --> 00:35:28,357 outside the political system. 280 00:35:28,392 --> 00:35:30,815 So, we are not in a position to offer any concessions or compromises... 281 00:35:30,828 --> 00:35:34,685 in any potential negotiations with the government. 282 00:35:37,935 --> 00:35:40,870 If you can't offer concessions, what can you offer? 283 00:35:40,872 --> 00:35:43,397 All we can do is set out our stall of demands. 284 00:35:44,108 --> 00:35:47,145 The release of Nelson Mandela and all political prisoners. 285 00:35:47,180 --> 00:35:50,079 The unbanning of all proscribed political organisations. 286 00:35:50,114 --> 00:35:55,314 Only then can a negotiated transition to majority rule take place. 287 00:35:55,349 --> 00:36:00,515 So, then, we can take it that there is no truth in the rumour... 288 00:36:00,550 --> 00:36:03,417 that the ANC hopes Mandela will die in prison? 289 00:36:03,452 --> 00:36:06,285 Thus elevating him to the status of martyr. 290 00:36:06,330 --> 00:36:08,685 You don't think he's achieved that status already? 291 00:36:08,733 --> 00:36:11,702 That rumour, along with most information about us... 292 00:36:11,736 --> 00:36:13,647 is based on disinformation. 293 00:36:13,704 --> 00:36:17,273 And, the riots and bloodshed if he does get released? 294 00:36:17,308 --> 00:36:20,436 Can you guarantee you can control your guerrilla extremists? 295 00:36:20,444 --> 00:36:23,208 Controlling Mrs Mandela and her necklacing would be a start. 296 00:36:23,214 --> 00:36:27,036 As would controlling the brutality of your security police. 297 00:36:28,586 --> 00:36:30,247 Can you guarantee that? 298 00:36:32,423 --> 00:36:36,161 There's talk in Pretoria that Botha is considering... 299 00:36:36,196 --> 00:36:39,862 forming a new body to be affiliated to Parliament... 300 00:36:39,897 --> 00:36:45,119 where black representatives can join the coloured and Indian delegates... 301 00:36:45,154 --> 00:36:47,357 as a prelude to power sharing. 302 00:36:47,371 --> 00:36:49,510 Can we ask your opinion on such a proposal? 303 00:36:49,540 --> 00:36:50,757 What is yours? 304 00:36:53,010 --> 00:36:55,945 I'm just here on a fact-finding mission, Mr Mbeki. 305 00:36:57,248 --> 00:36:58,840 Your opinion is the issue. 306 00:36:58,883 --> 00:37:02,011 My understanding is we are not here to discuss reforming Apartheid. 307 00:37:02,019 --> 00:37:05,978 Or, disguising it under some new administrative structure. 308 00:37:06,013 --> 00:37:08,063 We're here to talk about how to abolish it. 309 00:37:09,060 --> 00:37:13,804 What we are seeking, is a prelude to majority rule. 310 00:37:14,899 --> 00:37:18,585 Power sharing, is not an option. 311 00:37:48,199 --> 00:37:49,245 Ah, Professor. 312 00:38:09,020 --> 00:38:11,443 Okay. Good, good. Gentlemen, please. Good. 313 00:38:12,356 --> 00:38:15,007 Perhaps, if you outline the specific nature of your fears... 314 00:38:15,026 --> 00:38:16,800 relating to majority rule. 315 00:38:18,462 --> 00:38:20,987 It's not bloody rocket science. 316 00:38:22,500 --> 00:38:24,639 The blacks come after our blood, 317 00:38:24,735 --> 00:38:27,898 and our children get slaughtered in their beds. That, is the reality. 318 00:38:27,905 --> 00:38:32,410 A communist leaning administration will destroy our economic stability. 319 00:38:32,445 --> 00:38:35,072 They'll end up in the same post colonial chaos... 320 00:38:35,079 --> 00:38:37,286 as the other African states. 321 00:38:37,315 --> 00:38:38,270 Professor? 322 00:38:38,549 --> 00:38:42,337 You'll obliterate not only our language and our culture, but our human rights. 323 00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:45,962 Fear is the first weapon of the oppressor. 324 00:38:45,990 --> 00:38:50,142 It blinds us all from seeing the humanity of the other. 325 00:38:50,161 --> 00:38:52,516 Your hands are not so clean either, Mr Mbeki. 326 00:38:53,397 --> 00:38:56,462 What is your campaign of terror based on if not fear? 327 00:38:56,497 --> 00:38:59,528 The culture of fear is not of our making, Professor. 328 00:38:59,537 --> 00:39:02,335 We learnt it at the feet of our masters. 329 00:39:10,114 --> 00:39:13,561 You're looking tired, Mr Mandela. We've kept you talking too late again. 330 00:39:13,951 --> 00:39:17,637 Fortunately, I had no other plans tonight. 331 00:39:19,957 --> 00:39:23,085 I look forward to our next conversation, Doctor. 332 00:39:23,694 --> 00:39:26,527 For a moment I thought you said, 'negotiation'. 333 00:39:27,298 --> 00:39:30,096 My ear's playing tricks on me. 334 00:39:31,469 --> 00:39:32,868 Good night, Doctor. 335 00:39:34,538 --> 00:39:36,790 - Mr. Coatsee. - Good night. 336 00:39:41,612 --> 00:39:44,103 Stop all contact with the other Robben Islanders. 337 00:39:45,649 --> 00:39:48,516 We don't need their Greek Chorus in his ear. 338 00:39:48,519 --> 00:39:49,372 Alright. 339 00:39:51,255 --> 00:39:53,268 And get him a suit for next time. 340 00:39:53,290 --> 00:39:55,906 We'll get more out of him if he thinks he's an equal. 341 00:39:55,926 --> 00:39:57,427 Okay. It's a good idea. 342 00:40:39,103 --> 00:40:40,286 I'll leave you to it. 343 00:40:40,337 --> 00:40:44,535 I just think things might free up a bit without an outsider present. 344 00:40:49,346 --> 00:40:50,973 Bored with us already? 345 00:40:52,850 --> 00:40:54,920 It's a tactical withdrawal. 346 00:41:11,836 --> 00:41:12,825 So, Professor. 347 00:41:15,539 --> 00:41:17,643 When you first saw me, did you think... 348 00:41:17,675 --> 00:41:22,009 'Ah, so that's what a fucking, communist terrorist looks like'? 349 00:41:25,115 --> 00:41:28,551 And, you? Did you think... 350 00:41:28,586 --> 00:41:32,738 'Ah, so that's what a fucking racist Boer looks like'? 351 00:41:33,791 --> 00:41:36,926 No doubt, you assume our claim to be non-racial... 352 00:41:36,961 --> 00:41:41,159 is just a rhetoric of political convenience, but you are mistaken. 353 00:41:42,566 --> 00:41:44,124 It's what defines us. 354 00:41:47,838 --> 00:41:52,138 And you are mistaken in your assumptions about us, Mr Mbeki. 355 00:41:53,978 --> 00:41:57,459 Our fear doesn't stem from propaganda... 356 00:41:58,616 --> 00:42:02,063 but from the deep rooted knowledge that one day we will be punished... 357 00:42:04,054 --> 00:42:06,887 for all the terrible wrongs we have inflicted. 358 00:42:23,274 --> 00:42:25,083 Good night, Professor. 359 00:42:26,377 --> 00:42:27,560 Goodnight. 360 00:44:05,042 --> 00:44:05,895 Hello? 361 00:44:08,145 --> 00:44:09,510 Professor? 362 00:44:13,884 --> 00:44:15,795 Can I help you? 363 00:44:47,351 --> 00:44:50,991 Young gave his assurance the place was clean of bugs. 364 00:44:51,021 --> 00:44:52,716 I couldn't take the chance. 365 00:44:56,293 --> 00:45:01,105 I hope to God, you don't make me regret what I'm about to do. 366 00:45:02,266 --> 00:45:06,335 To the press and parliament, Botha's still on message that... 367 00:45:06,370 --> 00:45:10,909 you must abandon your weapons before he'll conduct a dialogue with you. 368 00:45:15,012 --> 00:45:19,415 But, my presence here suggests otherwise. 369 00:45:24,922 --> 00:45:27,061 Botha knows about these talks? 370 00:45:29,059 --> 00:45:32,847 I'm instructed to report back to him via Doctor Barnard... 371 00:45:32,882 --> 00:45:34,422 in National Intelligence. 372 00:45:38,602 --> 00:45:41,059 I'm to be their Trojan horse. 373 00:45:47,578 --> 00:45:50,035 You take a risk telling me this, Professor. 374 00:45:51,815 --> 00:45:53,476 It would be a risk not telling you. 375 00:45:57,521 --> 00:45:59,591 Without trust, we'll achieve nothing. 376 00:46:00,557 --> 00:46:01,956 Tambo says if we are to... 377 00:46:03,794 --> 00:46:05,807 win our freedom we must first... 378 00:46:07,064 --> 00:46:09,077 banish bitterness. 379 00:46:11,769 --> 00:46:13,327 This will be the test of it. 380 00:46:14,772 --> 00:46:15,761 For all of us. 381 00:46:35,192 --> 00:46:36,238 Get him ready. 382 00:46:37,327 --> 00:46:40,125 Let's give him a taste of what he's been missing. 383 00:46:40,998 --> 00:46:43,011 If you could just turn around. 384 00:46:48,539 --> 00:46:50,279 - Okay. It's good? - Ja. 385 00:46:53,377 --> 00:46:57,336 I've lost the knack of tying them over the years. 386 00:46:59,817 --> 00:47:00,567 Well, shall we? 387 00:48:48,458 --> 00:48:50,198 Got it. I've got it. 388 00:48:59,569 --> 00:49:00,490 Barnard. 389 00:49:00,771 --> 00:49:02,944 Did he enjoy his day of freedom? 390 00:49:02,973 --> 00:49:04,668 Enough to get a taste for it, let's hope. 391 00:49:06,510 --> 00:49:09,206 - And the UK talks? - Work in progress. 392 00:49:09,246 --> 00:49:12,147 I need more than that to placate the bloody doves in Cabinet. 393 00:49:12,149 --> 00:49:14,674 Sir, the Cabinet must know absolutely nothing about this. 394 00:49:14,685 --> 00:49:17,848 If some loose lips blabs to CNN the whole process could implode on us. 395 00:49:17,854 --> 00:49:21,881 You sold me these talks to get the inside track on the ANC. 396 00:49:22,426 --> 00:49:24,371 To give us leverage over Mandela. 397 00:49:24,394 --> 00:49:26,919 If you're not going to deliver. What's the damn point? 398 00:49:34,838 --> 00:49:37,739 I have his exact words here somewhere. 399 00:49:45,048 --> 00:49:46,447 Leave us. 400 00:49:54,658 --> 00:49:57,183 I do have a home to go to, Doctor. 401 00:50:02,466 --> 00:50:07,108 At the risk of invoking more accusations that I'm gullible and naive, I repeat... 402 00:50:08,638 --> 00:50:12,631 In my view, Mbeki, is a man the government can do business with. 403 00:50:13,043 --> 00:50:14,988 A view based on what? 404 00:50:19,016 --> 00:50:21,450 Your cosy fireside chats? 405 00:50:21,485 --> 00:50:25,512 His existential ramblings about universal suffrage? 406 00:50:27,891 --> 00:50:30,689 One can respect a man's commitment to his ideals... 407 00:50:30,694 --> 00:50:33,185 without sharing his methods of achieving them. 408 00:50:35,599 --> 00:50:39,933 Forgive me, if I don't also genuflect at his altar of self government. 409 00:50:39,968 --> 00:50:41,643 Talk is cheap, Professor. 410 00:50:42,739 --> 00:50:45,287 He made no concessions, did he? Not one. 411 00:50:46,576 --> 00:50:50,728 His so called conversion to moderation is a ploy, orchestrated by Tambo. 412 00:50:50,763 --> 00:50:51,601 And you... 413 00:50:52,616 --> 00:50:54,083 you fell for it. 414 00:51:02,192 --> 00:51:05,400 - Can I go home? - Not yet. 415 00:51:27,384 --> 00:51:30,478 Mandela sent his lawyer with a message for me. 416 00:51:30,720 --> 00:51:34,577 They've isolated him from Sisulu and the other Robben Islanders. 417 00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:41,210 He's been holding secret talks with Doctor Barnard from the N.I. S... 418 00:51:41,598 --> 00:51:43,225 who reports back to Botha. 419 00:51:43,733 --> 00:51:46,770 I pressed Bizoz on the content of the meetings. 420 00:51:46,805 --> 00:51:48,544 He claims Nelson said nothing. 421 00:51:49,039 --> 00:51:51,837 He wanted to assure me he's acting in good faith. 422 00:51:51,872 --> 00:51:53,720 He's walking into a trap. 423 00:51:55,245 --> 00:51:58,547 Botha knows about the U.K. talks. 424 00:51:58,582 --> 00:52:02,097 Barnard recruited Esterhuyse to act as his informer. 425 00:52:02,119 --> 00:52:04,917 They're playing 'divide and rule' with us. 426 00:52:05,956 --> 00:52:09,050 Pretoria will claim that South Africa's most famous prisoner... 427 00:52:09,059 --> 00:52:12,665 wanted a peaceful settlement but the ANC terrorists... 428 00:52:12,700 --> 00:52:15,495 rejected it to pursue their doctrine of violence. 429 00:52:15,499 --> 00:52:17,709 Madiba would never fall for such a trick. 430 00:52:17,744 --> 00:52:19,919 How do we know what his mental state is? 431 00:52:19,936 --> 00:52:21,881 The pressure he's under? 432 00:52:22,539 --> 00:52:25,702 What concessions he'll make in return for his freedom? 433 00:52:28,178 --> 00:52:33,093 If he's so solid with us why not tell us what he's doing? 434 00:52:34,584 --> 00:52:37,621 Why exclude you, of all people. 435 00:52:40,190 --> 00:52:42,841 This Esterhuyse, do you trust him? 436 00:52:46,930 --> 00:52:47,635 Yes. 437 00:52:47,697 --> 00:52:50,632 A man you've barely known a few hours? 438 00:52:50,667 --> 00:52:53,636 Yet, I'm supposed to doubt a man I've known a lifetime. 439 00:52:53,670 --> 00:52:55,547 Who sacrificed everything for us. 440 00:52:55,572 --> 00:52:57,233 If trust is the issue... 441 00:52:59,109 --> 00:53:01,600 perhaps it is my judgement which is in doubt. 442 00:53:01,611 --> 00:53:04,880 If we let ourselves be tainted by distrust... 443 00:53:04,915 --> 00:53:10,069 Botha's tactics will succeed. We play into his hands. 444 00:53:45,822 --> 00:53:49,679 The bombing came less than 24 hours after President Botha told parliament... 445 00:53:49,714 --> 00:53:53,074 that security forces had uncovered a terrorist cell in Natal... 446 00:53:53,109 --> 00:53:55,679 and arrested 23 suspected insurgents. 447 00:53:55,699 --> 00:53:59,067 We understand that two of the terrorists evaded capture. 448 00:53:59,102 --> 00:54:02,708 Security Forces have stepped up their search in the Soweto area. 449 00:54:11,147 --> 00:54:12,296 Get in here. 450 00:54:22,058 --> 00:54:25,596 I'm home, Marie. Anyone home? 451 00:55:38,568 --> 00:55:41,469 Target is confirmed. Tomorrow at twelve p.m. 452 00:55:41,471 --> 00:55:42,176 Sure. 453 00:57:47,130 --> 00:57:48,963 And the bloodshed in South Africa today... 454 00:57:48,998 --> 00:57:51,137 after a bomb exploded outside a shopping centre... 455 00:57:51,167 --> 00:57:53,146 in Roodeport, near Johannesburg. 456 00:57:53,736 --> 00:57:56,227 Four civilians were killed and 18 others injured. 457 00:57:56,739 --> 00:57:59,474 A spokesman claimed that the target was a nearby bank. 458 00:57:59,509 --> 00:58:02,091 He declined to give details on the operational difficulties... 459 00:58:02,111 --> 00:58:03,669 which caused the explosion. 460 00:58:06,416 --> 00:58:11,228 Is that how you justify your campaign of indiscriminate bombings... 461 00:58:11,263 --> 00:58:13,257 the killing of innocent civilians? 462 00:58:13,356 --> 00:58:15,904 We have never supported the killing of civilians. 463 00:58:15,925 --> 00:58:18,450 Tell that to the women and children that you maim and kill... 464 00:58:18,461 --> 00:58:21,396 with your limpet bombs and your pipe bombs. 465 00:58:21,397 --> 00:58:24,673 Or are dead children legitimate collateral damage... 466 00:58:24,708 --> 00:58:26,512 to promote your cycle of terror? 467 00:58:26,536 --> 00:58:30,017 I can quote you chapter and verse on dead children, Professor. 468 00:58:30,052 --> 00:58:32,907 Names, ages and dates, my son included. 469 00:58:35,879 --> 00:58:39,701 I think a break is in order, gentlemen. 470 00:58:39,983 --> 00:58:44,419 ANC policy is, and always has been... 471 00:58:44,454 --> 00:58:48,686 that only military and economic targets are legitimate. 472 00:58:48,721 --> 00:58:50,831 If it smells like crap and it sounds like crap... 473 00:58:50,894 --> 00:58:53,146 chances are, it is crap. 474 00:58:55,131 --> 00:58:57,486 Not once have I tried to justify... 475 00:58:57,500 --> 00:59:00,628 the excesses of the South African Security Forces. 476 00:59:00,637 --> 00:59:06,191 Yet, you persist in spouting this pre-digested dogma at me. 477 00:59:06,226 --> 00:59:11,746 Maybe they think if they say it enough times, we'll buy it. 478 00:59:11,748 --> 00:59:16,129 This really is not productive, so either we move on... 479 00:59:16,164 --> 00:59:20,511 The timing, of the Roodeport bomb isn't coincidental. 480 00:59:21,057 --> 00:59:22,752 Lusaka authorised it... 481 00:59:23,826 --> 00:59:26,693 in the full knowledge of our meetings. 482 00:59:28,264 --> 00:59:30,653 It's the old terror tactic... 483 00:59:30,667 --> 00:59:34,694 once the talking starts, step up the violence. 484 00:59:35,705 --> 00:59:38,253 If you think that's going to strengthen your hand... 485 00:59:38,308 --> 00:59:40,890 in any negotiations with the Government... 486 00:59:40,910 --> 00:59:45,062 you've seen to it that all chance of that is off the table. 487 00:59:47,717 --> 00:59:49,150 Frankly... 488 00:59:55,458 --> 00:59:57,471 so are these talks. 489 01:00:21,217 --> 01:00:23,833 - Time to turn up the heat. - Alright. 490 01:00:27,890 --> 01:00:29,994 Hello, Mr Mandela. Please. 491 01:00:37,166 --> 01:00:39,487 Let's talk about Roodeport. 492 01:00:45,742 --> 01:00:47,516 It needed saying. 493 01:00:50,980 --> 01:00:52,925 There was no getting round it. 494 01:00:54,484 --> 01:00:55,746 Perhaps. 495 01:00:57,987 --> 01:01:00,956 But, box a man into a corner and... 496 01:01:02,025 --> 01:01:04,742 The President is running out of patience, Mr Mandela. 497 01:01:04,777 --> 01:01:07,459 Either, you denounce the communist links with the ANC... 498 01:01:07,463 --> 01:01:08,828 condemn the violence... 499 01:01:10,433 --> 01:01:15,541 or, frankly, you and I? We have nothing further to discuss. 500 01:01:15,576 --> 01:01:19,601 When political movements are forced underground... 501 01:01:19,636 --> 01:01:21,932 they inevitably are thrown together... 502 01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:28,917 and, no man of honour would desert a lifelong friend... 503 01:01:28,952 --> 01:01:31,683 at the request of a common enemy. 504 01:01:36,626 --> 01:01:38,696 Gentlemen, excuse us. 505 01:01:48,571 --> 01:01:51,301 You're not the only game in town, Mr Mandela. 506 01:01:53,543 --> 01:01:54,623 Don't you see? 507 01:01:55,978 --> 01:01:59,323 This is your chance to seize the initiative. 508 01:02:00,016 --> 01:02:03,326 The ANC think they can bomb their way into power... 509 01:02:04,654 --> 01:02:08,772 but a few words from you, condemning the violence... 510 01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:13,051 will not only secure your freedom... 511 01:02:14,564 --> 01:02:20,368 but will ensure that you alone... 512 01:02:20,403 --> 01:02:22,655 will be the man the Government deals with. 513 01:02:24,974 --> 01:02:29,820 You, alone, can lead us all out of this impasse. 514 01:02:36,185 --> 01:02:40,076 Haven't your years of sacrifice earned you that right? 515 01:03:27,737 --> 01:03:29,580 This is the situation. 516 01:03:31,507 --> 01:03:33,541 All ANC bombing operations... 517 01:03:33,576 --> 01:03:36,878 fall under the command and control structure in Lusaka. 518 01:03:36,913 --> 01:03:41,065 But, some of our cadres, believing force to be the only way... 519 01:03:41,100 --> 01:03:43,598 sometimes act without authority. 520 01:03:45,555 --> 01:03:47,534 Operations can get bungled. 521 01:03:49,225 --> 01:03:50,522 Innocent people... 522 01:03:51,828 --> 01:03:52,840 get killed. 523 01:03:55,498 --> 01:03:57,193 But, you have my word... 524 01:03:57,934 --> 01:04:00,516 that I will do everything in my power... 525 01:04:00,536 --> 01:04:05,075 to ensure that civilians no longer suffer from our inadequacies. 526 01:04:06,242 --> 01:04:09,928 Are you telling us that you are unable to control some of your... 527 01:04:10,947 --> 01:04:14,485 renegade cadres, Mr Mbeki? 528 01:04:15,251 --> 01:04:17,799 If you know the truth of our situation, Professor... 529 01:04:19,088 --> 01:04:22,957 you will see that the issue of violence... 530 01:04:22,992 --> 01:04:26,564 is irrevocably connected to the other issues we wrestle with. 531 01:04:27,230 --> 01:04:30,609 Only when we can participate in a truly democratic process... 532 01:04:30,644 --> 01:04:35,650 will our armed struggle become obsolete. 533 01:04:35,685 --> 01:04:40,657 Only then will the conflict between us end. 534 01:04:52,655 --> 01:04:55,783 - How did you sleep? - Not too bad. You? 535 01:04:56,559 --> 01:04:59,460 Alright, except for terrible dreams about lawyers. 536 01:04:59,462 --> 01:05:00,793 Oh, yes. That is a nightmare. 537 01:05:02,698 --> 01:05:05,867 So, anyway, Thatcher is in Moscow... 538 01:05:05,902 --> 01:05:07,642 the crowds in Red Square are all over her, mobbing her... 539 01:05:07,670 --> 01:05:10,938 She's getting quite queasy with all this adulation... 540 01:05:10,973 --> 01:05:14,488 so, she says to her interpreter, 'I'm not a communist, you know? ' 541 01:05:15,411 --> 01:05:18,448 And, they shout back, 'Neither are we! ' 542 01:05:28,224 --> 01:05:33,002 I came here believing what happened at Roodeport had derailed everything... 543 01:05:33,562 --> 01:05:35,541 you changed that. 544 01:05:36,399 --> 01:05:40,039 What you said in that room will go no further. 545 01:05:46,575 --> 01:05:48,930 - Safe home, Willie. - May I tell you... 546 01:05:52,715 --> 01:05:55,582 how truly sorry I am about your son. 547 01:06:00,256 --> 01:06:00,927 Thank you. 548 01:06:44,734 --> 01:06:45,655 Thabo? 549 01:07:20,536 --> 01:07:22,094 Come off the road. 550 01:09:37,473 --> 01:09:40,442 There was an incident on the way from the airport. 551 01:09:44,480 --> 01:09:47,278 They were not security agents. 552 01:09:52,721 --> 01:09:55,485 Word is out about your talks. 553 01:09:55,691 --> 01:09:59,206 Some of the militants will use any tactics to halt them. 554 01:10:00,129 --> 01:10:03,883 For two decades we've said only force will crush the enemy. 555 01:10:04,166 --> 01:10:06,748 Instead of force, we now preach talks. 556 01:10:07,903 --> 01:10:10,428 They see that as a betrayal. 557 01:10:10,472 --> 01:10:13,168 And when you pressed him on the violence issue... 558 01:10:13,175 --> 01:10:17,032 did he admit the ANC high command now sanction civilian targets? 559 01:10:17,067 --> 01:10:19,594 He made the same point he has made from the beginning... 560 01:10:19,615 --> 01:10:21,276 cessation of violence... 561 01:10:21,317 --> 01:10:25,651 is contingent on the Government committing to a democratic process. 562 01:10:34,230 --> 01:10:38,087 You told him there can be no question of that while the violence continues? 563 01:10:38,100 --> 01:10:41,137 Tell me, Doctor, should they agree to... 564 01:10:42,204 --> 01:10:46,288 give up the armed struggle and negotiate with the government... 565 01:10:46,323 --> 01:10:48,448 what would you give them in return? 566 01:10:48,844 --> 01:10:52,484 You cannot go into negotiation without bringing something to the table. 567 01:10:52,519 --> 01:10:54,221 Yet you send me in empty handed. 568 01:10:54,250 --> 01:10:57,014 Don't be surprised if I come back empty handed. 569 01:10:57,019 --> 01:10:59,920 You are not empowered to negotiate, Professor. 570 01:11:02,191 --> 01:11:05,467 You're wrong. Doctor. Talk is not cheap. 571 01:11:13,902 --> 01:11:15,745 It's all we have left. 572 01:11:41,764 --> 01:11:44,255 Mr Esterhuyse takes the view that... 573 01:11:44,300 --> 01:11:46,666 before formal negotiations can take place... 574 01:11:46,701 --> 01:11:49,033 concessions, must be made on both sides. 575 01:11:49,772 --> 01:11:53,540 If we make a gesture by releasing Mandela... 576 01:11:53,575 --> 01:11:56,783 I said nothing about making concessions to Mandela's freedom. 577 01:11:56,818 --> 01:11:59,577 This is no longer a matter of political survival, sir. 578 01:12:00,049 --> 01:12:02,335 Your policy of buying us time has created a... 579 01:12:04,119 --> 01:12:07,361 a vacuum of uncertainty that is only fuelling the violence. 580 01:12:07,389 --> 01:12:08,822 You know what I think? 581 01:12:09,391 --> 01:12:14,340 This is about your own survival, covering your own sorry arse. 582 01:12:16,065 --> 01:12:19,034 If you are seen to take the initiative with the ANC... 583 01:12:20,069 --> 01:12:22,833 history will always acknowledge it was you who had the statesmanship... 584 01:12:22,838 --> 01:12:27,241 and vision to pull this country back, from the brink of civil war. 585 01:12:27,276 --> 01:12:29,666 You alone averted that catastrophe. 586 01:12:29,678 --> 01:12:33,159 History might also say I took my hand off the tiller too soon. 587 01:12:36,585 --> 01:12:40,544 I give way on Mandela's freedom now, I give away our trump card. 588 01:12:40,889 --> 01:12:42,902 He's a man like any other. 589 01:12:42,925 --> 01:12:44,870 The more he gets of it, the more he'll want it. 590 01:12:47,096 --> 01:12:48,836 Mandela is the key. 591 01:13:04,947 --> 01:13:07,950 - Where to today? - A surprise. 592 01:13:46,155 --> 01:13:48,612 Control, confirm subject arrival. 593 01:13:59,902 --> 01:14:01,597 Everything is alright, no problems. 594 01:15:02,898 --> 01:15:05,935 I hope you like your new quarters, Mr Mandela? 595 01:15:07,669 --> 01:15:09,546 This is Warrant Officer Swart. 596 01:15:10,472 --> 01:15:12,679 He'll look after you. Do your cooking and so on. 597 01:15:15,644 --> 01:15:17,965 We've met before, at Robben Island. 598 01:15:18,514 --> 01:15:20,425 I used to drive you to the quarry. 599 01:15:20,716 --> 01:15:24,163 I hope you are a better cook than you were a driver. 600 01:15:27,823 --> 01:15:31,941 Give him the tour. I'll leave you to settle in. 601 01:15:33,562 --> 01:15:36,656 There's three bedrooms. This is the largest. 602 01:15:37,432 --> 01:15:40,469 I'm sure you'll find the bed more comfortable than you're used to. 603 01:16:18,106 --> 01:16:20,939 The departmental conference is postponed, professor. 604 01:16:24,112 --> 01:16:27,013 We know exactly what's going on in the UK... 605 01:16:27,015 --> 01:16:29,563 between you and the ANC thugs professor. 606 01:16:29,618 --> 01:16:34,726 Think carefully before going next time or learn to sleep with your eyes open. 607 01:17:17,866 --> 01:17:19,970 This is Michael Young. Please leave a message. 608 01:17:20,002 --> 01:17:21,367 This is Esterhuyse. 609 01:17:22,471 --> 01:17:23,483 I suggest... 610 01:17:24,539 --> 01:17:27,884 that you make a date for the next meeting as soon as possible. 611 01:17:43,458 --> 01:17:45,562 - I missed you. - It's nice to see you back. 612 01:17:50,666 --> 01:17:53,726 Marigolds. Pansies. 613 01:17:55,637 --> 01:17:59,494 This one is in the wrong place. It needs more light. 614 01:18:00,075 --> 01:18:02,976 You pick a spot. I'll fetch a shovel. 615 01:19:23,125 --> 01:19:24,422 Mr President? 616 01:19:25,160 --> 01:19:26,969 Mr President, are you alright? 617 01:19:28,130 --> 01:19:30,143 We need an ambulance now. 618 01:19:31,833 --> 01:19:34,996 Hip, hip, hooray! 619 01:19:44,112 --> 01:19:45,773 Bye bye, Tata. 620 01:19:57,559 --> 01:19:59,083 My dear friend. 621 01:19:59,127 --> 01:20:05,680 At best, Botha regarded my gilded cage as a way to seduce me into submission. 622 01:20:07,269 --> 01:20:12,184 But I have had twenty years to prepare me for this moment. 623 01:20:14,442 --> 01:20:17,787 Talking to Barnard was a high risk strategy... 624 01:20:17,822 --> 01:20:19,998 but you can trust in one thing. 625 01:20:20,882 --> 01:20:24,561 That I am not negotiating terms with the government... 626 01:20:24,596 --> 01:20:28,241 but facilitating the process for the ANC to do so. 627 01:20:30,592 --> 01:20:36,599 Surely, you and I have come too far to let them divide us now. 628 01:20:40,202 --> 01:20:42,750 The election of the new State President F. W. De Klerk... 629 01:20:42,771 --> 01:20:45,228 has sparked a wave of violence across the country. 630 01:20:46,608 --> 01:20:48,997 And sensitivity about his commitment to reform... 631 01:20:49,044 --> 01:20:50,784 seems to be fuelling the violence. 632 01:20:51,479 --> 01:20:53,868 Mr De Klerk's position to the right of the National Party... 633 01:20:53,915 --> 01:20:57,840 have left some observers to question his appetite for change. 634 01:20:58,954 --> 01:21:02,594 Botha's mistake was his reliance on his security apparatus... 635 01:21:02,624 --> 01:21:05,900 at the expense of protecting his power base in Parliament. 636 01:21:06,828 --> 01:21:10,616 I must tell you, that is a mistake I do not intend to repeat. 637 01:21:13,869 --> 01:21:16,804 My mistake was accommodating his plan to try and divide Mandela... 638 01:21:16,839 --> 01:21:19,901 from the ANC in a futile attempt to cling on to power. 639 01:21:20,308 --> 01:21:23,436 My discussions with Mr Mandela have convinced me that the only way... 640 01:21:23,445 --> 01:21:26,243 of doing that now is to give some of it away and negotiate. 641 01:21:26,648 --> 01:21:29,196 Before it's taken from us. 642 01:21:30,452 --> 01:21:32,943 You've been detained long enough, Doctor. 643 01:21:34,456 --> 01:21:36,151 Gentlemen, shall we? 644 01:21:40,896 --> 01:21:46,254 Help us end Apartheid now! 645 01:21:46,768 --> 01:21:49,259 I doubt we're looking at the Messiah of change. 646 01:21:50,538 --> 01:21:52,722 De Klerk is a life long apologist for apartheid. 647 01:21:52,757 --> 01:21:54,744 Presumably that's why his party chose him. 648 01:21:54,776 --> 01:21:58,291 Names for the next meeting. I've added a new one. 649 01:21:58,613 --> 01:22:01,673 - Mix things up a bit. - Willem De Klerk? 650 01:22:01,683 --> 01:22:04,686 - Yes, the President's brother. - How prescient of you. 651 01:22:09,557 --> 01:22:11,297 I'm hoping he's got his brother's ear. 652 01:22:11,359 --> 01:22:14,487 Unlike F.W., he's on record condemning apartheid. 653 01:22:14,496 --> 01:22:18,034 What if his brother vetoes his attendance? Along with Esterhuyse? 654 01:22:18,069 --> 01:22:21,241 Esterhuyse is committed now. Nothing will keep him away. 655 01:22:21,276 --> 01:22:23,818 Unless his passport is revoked. 656 01:22:36,151 --> 01:22:39,723 This is the Esterhuyse residence. We're not home right now. 657 01:22:39,758 --> 01:22:41,757 If you leave a message. We'll call you back. 658 01:22:43,758 --> 01:22:45,737 And you're sure that he's nowhere in the University? 659 01:22:47,495 --> 01:22:48,996 I've tried him at home. 660 01:22:58,073 --> 01:23:01,486 Thabo. Tony. Aziz. Good to see you again. 661 01:23:03,979 --> 01:23:06,914 - The others aren't here yet? - They will be. They will be. 662 01:23:09,384 --> 01:23:11,523 If he contacts you, or if you see him... 663 01:23:11,553 --> 01:23:14,647 tell him to call Michael Young as soon as possible. 664 01:23:14,656 --> 01:23:16,567 I'll be waiting by the phone. 665 01:24:01,503 --> 01:24:03,539 Tell him that I can't see him now. 666 01:24:09,911 --> 01:24:12,914 The President will be unable to see you today after all, Doctor. 667 01:24:13,448 --> 01:24:15,973 His diary secretary will be in touch, sir. 668 01:24:52,420 --> 01:24:55,560 Bloody highway pile-up. Stuck there for hours. 669 01:24:55,595 --> 01:24:56,240 Gentlemen. 670 01:24:56,624 --> 01:24:58,945 - Michael Young, Mr De Klerk. - How do you do? 671 01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:02,646 Willem De Klerk, Journalist and political commentator, Thabo Mbeki. 672 01:25:04,099 --> 01:25:05,760 - Pleased to meet you. - Pleasure, sir. 673 01:25:07,135 --> 01:25:08,284 Shall we? 674 01:25:15,076 --> 01:25:16,543 You had us worried there. 675 01:25:16,945 --> 01:25:19,402 You don't get rid of me that easily. 676 01:25:48,676 --> 01:25:50,712 My dear friend and comrade. 677 01:25:51,546 --> 01:25:55,664 I cannot tell you my relief to hear from you at last. 678 01:25:56,518 --> 01:26:00,153 Had you contacted me before, I could have warned you... 679 01:26:00,188 --> 01:26:04,079 that yours are not the only talks taking place with the Government. 680 01:26:04,392 --> 01:26:08,146 Your release is high on the agenda of those discussions. 681 01:26:08,496 --> 01:26:11,974 Given the hard line position of the new State President... 682 01:26:12,009 --> 01:26:15,453 the future of those talks must now hang in the balance. 683 01:26:16,538 --> 01:26:20,429 Call it what it is, Willie. Minority rights, equals white rights. 684 01:26:20,464 --> 01:26:22,035 In other words, you want us to ensure... 685 01:26:22,076 --> 01:26:24,567 the privileges whites enjoy are perpetuated. 686 01:26:24,579 --> 01:26:29,562 The idea of group rights is that no group has dominance over another. 687 01:26:29,597 --> 01:26:30,814 White or black. 688 01:26:31,486 --> 01:26:34,694 Isn't that what your non-racial credo is all about? 689 01:26:34,729 --> 01:26:36,532 But without assurance of that... 690 01:26:36,558 --> 01:26:40,198 the President will never come to the negotiating table. 691 01:26:41,396 --> 01:26:43,170 Is that not so, Willem? 692 01:26:48,903 --> 01:26:51,667 That's not for me to say, Professor. 693 01:26:56,144 --> 01:26:58,499 De Klerk's brother doesn't give much away. 694 01:26:58,980 --> 01:27:02,427 He frequently points out he's not his brother's keeper. 695 01:27:05,086 --> 01:27:07,816 He barely got his feet under the table, give him time. 696 01:27:07,822 --> 01:27:09,119 Time is the enemy. 697 01:27:09,157 --> 01:27:13,491 Every day he procrastinates, is one closer to bloody insurrection. 698 01:27:13,526 --> 01:27:14,985 What is Barnard's sense of him? 699 01:27:15,597 --> 01:27:19,863 Barnard's access to the President's office is not what it used to be. 700 01:27:20,935 --> 01:27:24,314 We must rely on his brother for that now. 701 01:27:27,242 --> 01:27:31,167 I thought we might discuss your impressions of the day, Willem? 702 01:27:31,202 --> 01:27:32,919 I've some excellent brandy in my room. 703 01:27:32,947 --> 01:27:34,471 Another night, perhaps. 704 01:27:42,390 --> 01:27:43,948 My dear friend... 705 01:27:44,492 --> 01:27:49,600 our struggle is now at a tipping point, as is our country. 706 01:27:50,031 --> 01:27:53,341 We must try and convince De Klerk and his government... 707 01:27:53,368 --> 01:27:55,950 that the whites have nothing to fear from us. 708 01:27:56,738 --> 01:28:01,474 It is not revenge that governs us, but reconciliation. 709 01:28:01,509 --> 01:28:06,492 We must use every method open to us to make him understand... 710 01:28:06,527 --> 01:28:10,235 that unless he acts soon, we cannot deliver. 711 01:28:10,251 --> 01:28:11,484 What is he waiting for? 712 01:28:11,519 --> 01:28:13,908 How many more weeks, how many more months until he acts? 713 01:28:13,921 --> 01:28:17,539 And where is he on Mandela? Can he not see the longer he keeps him in prison... 714 01:28:17,574 --> 01:28:19,744 the more time he is giving for mob rule to take hold? 715 01:28:19,779 --> 01:28:20,479 Exactly! 716 01:28:20,528 --> 01:28:23,830 I do not have the answers you're looking for, Mr Mbeki. 717 01:28:23,865 --> 01:28:27,585 My brother is not in the habit of confiding in me about Government policy. 718 01:28:27,602 --> 01:28:29,615 Or anyone else, it seems. 719 01:28:33,474 --> 01:28:34,179 Yes. 720 01:28:35,143 --> 01:28:37,725 Yes, I understand well. Are you absolutely sure? 721 01:28:40,515 --> 01:28:42,210 We can't put it like that. 722 01:28:44,152 --> 01:28:49,784 Yes, it's important, but it's a waste of time. 723 01:29:17,852 --> 01:29:22,186 I apologise. I lost track of... 724 01:29:26,294 --> 01:29:29,388 Shall we start by returning to the outstanding items from yesterday? 725 01:29:29,397 --> 01:29:31,718 I wonder... Do you mind, I'm sorry? 726 01:29:32,400 --> 01:29:36,393 On behalf of my brother, I have some issues for clarification. 727 01:29:37,138 --> 01:29:38,605 If you will bear with me. 728 01:29:43,878 --> 01:29:44,867 One... 729 01:29:46,614 --> 01:29:50,658 when would it be possible for the ANC to embark on talks... 730 01:29:50,693 --> 01:29:54,703 about how to progress formal negotiations with the Government? 731 01:29:54,738 --> 01:29:56,020 Two. 732 01:29:56,057 --> 01:30:00,050 What would your preconditions be to such talks... 733 01:30:01,262 --> 01:30:04,607 and, three... what agenda would be acceptable to you? 734 01:30:19,247 --> 01:30:22,728 You can... tell the President... 735 01:30:24,552 --> 01:30:29,433 there will be no preconditions on our side... 736 01:30:30,591 --> 01:30:36,598 and we leave it to him to determine the agenda. 737 01:30:38,666 --> 01:30:40,327 As for timing... 738 01:30:44,172 --> 01:30:46,185 we are ready when he is. 739 01:31:00,221 --> 01:31:04,624 And your position on the cease fire of violence? 740 01:31:05,526 --> 01:31:08,939 We would order that all violence be suspended... 741 01:31:08,974 --> 01:31:10,966 while negotiations take place. 742 01:31:12,533 --> 01:31:15,661 When a new constitution has been agreed... 743 01:31:16,537 --> 01:31:19,779 we will give the instruction that the armed struggle... 744 01:31:21,309 --> 01:31:23,413 is to be abandoned. 745 01:32:32,813 --> 01:32:33,802 Oliver. 746 01:32:36,851 --> 01:32:37,863 Thabo. 747 01:32:41,022 --> 01:32:43,786 Would you read this for me, please? 748 01:32:48,563 --> 01:32:51,179 "Although we have been apart all these years..." 749 01:32:51,866 --> 01:32:55,984 It's as if I've been conducting a lifelong conversation... 750 01:32:56,019 --> 01:32:57,665 with you in my head. 751 01:33:00,975 --> 01:33:05,890 All I pray now, is that you recover so, God willing... 752 01:33:05,925 --> 01:33:08,815 we can continue it face to face. 753 01:33:11,619 --> 01:33:13,689 As for my freedom... 754 01:33:14,455 --> 01:33:19,813 it is a secondary matter until you are strong again. 755 01:33:20,628 --> 01:33:25,509 And, until all those imprisoned have won theirs. 756 01:33:25,933 --> 01:33:30,404 I must be the last to gain his liberty. 757 01:33:35,076 --> 01:33:38,591 He wouldn't give a name, much less take no for an answer. 758 01:33:44,752 --> 01:33:46,083 Esterhuyse. 759 01:33:46,153 --> 01:33:48,735 I suppose the weather's the usual crap? 760 01:33:50,057 --> 01:33:52,036 Is that what you called to discuss? 761 01:33:55,529 --> 01:33:56,996 What time is it over there? 762 01:33:58,532 --> 01:34:01,945 - Noon. - Turn on your TV. 2 pm, your time. 763 01:34:17,084 --> 01:34:20,524 Now, as we wait for what's been billed as an historic address. 764 01:34:20,559 --> 01:34:23,964 Let's reflect on the momentous events of the past few months. 765 01:34:24,558 --> 01:34:28,164 The tearing down of the Berlin Wall and the end of the Cold War. 766 01:34:28,529 --> 01:34:31,697 But, South Africa has had many false dawns. 767 01:34:31,732 --> 01:34:35,884 So many speeches which have promised so much, yet delivered so little. 768 01:34:37,004 --> 01:34:40,519 Here now is President De Klerk flanked by his cabinet. 769 01:34:41,976 --> 01:34:44,672 As he makes his way to the podium, all of South Africa... 770 01:34:44,679 --> 01:34:47,102 and indeed the world, holds it's breath. 771 01:34:48,249 --> 01:34:53,027 My Government has taken the decision to immediately and unconditionally... 772 01:34:53,062 --> 01:34:55,602 release Mr Nelson Mandela. 773 01:34:56,924 --> 01:34:59,176 I've also instructed that the prohibition... 774 01:34:59,193 --> 01:35:02,196 of the African National Congress the Pan African Congress... 775 01:35:02,229 --> 01:35:06,313 and the South African Communist Party be immediately lifted. 776 01:35:07,301 --> 01:35:09,724 The time has come to negotiate. 777 01:35:10,504 --> 01:35:12,927 The hopes of millions of South Africans... 778 01:35:12,940 --> 01:35:14,919 will be centred on that process. 779 01:35:15,943 --> 01:35:20,061 We must not falter. We dare not fail. 780 01:35:21,082 --> 01:35:22,162 Thank you. 781 01:35:26,487 --> 01:35:29,795 We go now to Victor Verster Prison, where Mr Mandela... 782 01:35:29,830 --> 01:35:33,103 the man who's been imprisoned for nearly three decades... 783 01:35:33,138 --> 01:35:36,643 72 years old, will be appearing in public... 784 01:35:36,678 --> 01:35:39,180 for the first time, any moment now. 785 01:35:40,568 --> 01:35:42,342 International media perched. 786 01:35:43,637 --> 01:35:45,298 The crowd getting excited. 787 01:35:46,173 --> 01:35:46,958 That's him. 788 01:35:47,975 --> 01:35:52,059 And there is Mister Mandela. Nelson Mandela. A free man. 789 01:35:52,546 --> 01:35:56,061 Taking his first steps into a new South Africa. 790 01:36:00,054 --> 01:36:03,182 Mrs Winnie Mandela next to him waving to the crowds. 791 01:36:03,858 --> 01:36:05,962 And a salute from Mr Nelson Mandela. 792 01:36:05,993 --> 01:36:10,259 His wife greeting the people who have been waiting for so long for this day. 793 01:36:14,101 --> 01:36:17,138 This is the man that the world's been waiting to see. 794 01:36:17,173 --> 01:36:20,551 His first public appearance in 27 years. 795 01:36:21,509 --> 01:36:25,297 The day for which he too, has waited so long. 796 01:36:49,904 --> 01:36:51,496 We owe you so much more. 797 01:36:52,740 --> 01:36:55,675 It takes a big man to make himself invisible. 798 01:36:58,112 --> 01:36:58,931 Thank you. 799 01:36:59,580 --> 01:37:02,708 Thank you. Michael. Thank you. 800 01:37:09,023 --> 01:37:09,910 Stay safe. 801 01:37:12,626 --> 01:37:13,672 And you... 802 01:37:15,763 --> 01:37:17,264 comrade. 803 01:39:19,265 --> 01:39:20,265 Subtitles by LeapinLar 9999 00:00:0,500 --> 00:00:2,00 www.moviesubtitles.org 65813

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