Original subtitles

Are you telling this jury that this knife

is the murder weapon?

Is that what you're telling this jury?

No, sir, I'm not telling the jury that.

Okay, now that we're good. Understand that.

What day were these individuals charged?

What day did you all charge Damien Echols with this crime?

- Was it June the 3rd? - Yes, sir.

And what day was it that you were out there searching this lake?

This was on 11/17 of '93.

November 17 of 1993.

- Yes, sir. - That's all.

( chatter )

( mumbles )

The damn system stinks.

They're playing with our lives,

and there's nothing right about it.

It's kind of like the Nazis, you know.

They can just take somebody's word

and come in your house and take you away.

And basically, that's what they did

because of what Jessie told them,

even though it had all those inconsistencies in it.

If we'd had money, do you think these three boys would've been picked up?

They found people that they knew that didn't have money,

some boys that been in a little bit of trouble.

They thought we didn't care,

but they were wrong.

They're bad wrong.

I don't believe that chil-- that children

could be that cold-blooded

as what happened to those boys.

Frank J. Peretti: And state's exhibit 67A shows the, um...

the hog-tying fashion on the-- the hands

were hog-tied to the feet

behind the back, and this is the photograph,

um, showing that the shoelaces.

And that injury, um...

you say is-- is typical of a belt injury.

You know, the belt has a little buckle,

and that's what the-- the buckle,

that's that little one that goes back and forth,

left and right, that's the-- the base of the latch.

( clears throat ) Here, this red area here,

this is the, uh, the shaft of the penis.

And here is where the scrotal sac and testes should be,

and they're missing.

So what we have is that the-the skin overlying the penis

and the head of the penis has been carved off,

it's gone, its not there.

In layman's language that I-I understand...

with respect-- his penis has not been cut off, has it?

No, the-the skin has been taken off the penis, yeah.

And basically it would take some skill and precision to do that, wouldn't it?

- I would think so. - Okay.

It was to be done, this dissection,

where the skin is cut off,

that would take a very sharp instrument, would it not?

Um, I-I think it would.

Such as a razor.

- Or a sharp knife. - A very sharp knife.

Doctor, if you were to do this,

with the skill and the precision

and the knowledge that you take,

how long would it take you to do that?

Frank Peretti: It would take me some time.

Paul Ford: It'd take you longer than five to ten minutes.

I would think so.

And that's at-- in your lab.

- I would think so. - With a scalpel.

- Is that correct? - That's correct.

Now, Doctor, if we added to the equation

that you were in the dark,

could you-- could you do this in the dark?

You, Doctor, could you do it in the dark?

Peretti: It'd be difficult.

Could you do this in the water?

You, Doctor, could you do this in the water?

I think it would be very difficult to do.

If you were doing it in the dark,

in the water, with mosquitos all around you,

would that make it even much more difficult?

I would think so.

I would take you-- it would be a very tedious task for you.

- It wou-- - A skilled pathologist.

It would.

Now, isn't it true, Doctor,

that people have five-- about five pints of blood?

A little more than that, yes.

Okay, um...

now, if I poured out five pints of blood

out here on the floor,

it'd make a big mess, wouldn't it?

Yes.

And it would be almost impossible to clean up.

Well, you could do it, but... not very easily.

It'd be very, very difficult, wouldn't it?

It's not easy to clean blood.

Okay, does blood soak into the ground?

- Um, yes it does. - Okay.

Doctor, with this homicide

we're talking about here today,

would you agree with me that this could have happened in one of three ways.

These injuries could have happened in the water,

these injuries could have happened on the bank

there by the side of the ditch,

or it could've happened somewhere else.

Would you agree with me those are the three possibilities

of how this could've happened?

- Yes. - Okay, now,

with your knowledge of the amount of blood that was lost

from not only Chris Byers

but these other boys, who've had some pretty--

they're gonna bleed as well, won't they?

- Oh, yes. - Okay.

Do you have an opinion as to whether or not

you could clean up that amount of blood

at a scene in the dark?

Do you have an opinion as to that?

I think it'll be quite difficult to do,

to have, um, injuries of this nature

without having any blood.

I mean, that's...

I-I would question that, about the blood.

Okay.

Unless it happened in the water or it happened some other place.

Okay, and you again, Doctor, stated that you couldn't--

you couldn't do this in the water.

- Personally, I-I don't think I could. - Okay.

I don't get off on hurting people or...

inflicting pain on the rest of the human race or just...

causing destruction for the purpose of destruction.

I probably been in one or two fights my entire life.

Mmm.

And especially a child.

It just-- because they didn't do anything to deserve

what they got.

Mmm.

And I believe whatever you do to someone else,

whether it's good or bad,

is eventually gonna come back around to you.

Hmm.

Even the person who did this, if they're not caught

and punished, then something will happen in their life

where they will be punished.

( dogs barking )

Domini Teer: People kept telling me not to go out with him

because he was, like...

some kind of devil worshipper and stuff

and I met him in Wal-Mart.

( chuckles )

And-and he followed me around like a puppy dog.

And we just started talking, you know, he's real sweet.

Not like everybody else was making him out to be.

That night, we started going out, and-- it was like, a month,

and he called me up on the telephone

at my dad's girlfriend's house, and he goes,

"Will you me marry me?" I'm like, "What?"

And he goes, "Will you marry me?"

I was like, "Could you repeat that one more time?"

And he goes, "Will you marry me?", and I said...

"Yeah."

When I got pregnant,

I had this big picture painted in my mind.

You know, Damien's gonna be there

and I get to yell at him when I have the baby.

And instead, I was yelling at her.

( sobbing )

I miss him so much.

I mean, and he isn't gonna see the baby,

they won't let him touch the baby.

It makes me so, well, pissed off.

I just felt different when he was born.

It was...

It made me feel, like, I guess just real good inside.

Just...

to think that I gave life to another human being.

Something completely separate from me,

but still part of me.

I just hope that I'll be there when he grows up,

to watch him.

Brent Davis: You're familiar with a fellow

named Aleister Crowley?

- I know who he is. - You've heard of him?

- I know who he is. - Okay.

Uh, and...

He's the guy who kind of professes--

he's-- he's a noted author

in the field of Satanic worship, right?

I've never-- I know who he is

but I never saw any of his books, personally.

Okay, not really much of a follower of his?

I would've read him if I would've saw him,

- but, I just never.. - Okay, okay.

But Aleister Crowley is a guy that,

based on his writings,

believes in human sacrifice, doesn't he?

He also believed he was God, though, so...

Okay, and he also had writings

that indicated that children were the best type

of human sacrifice, correct?

- Yes, sir. - Okay.

Davis: But Aleister Crowley doesn't have

any particular significance to you?

I know who he is, I've read a little bit about him,

but I've never read anything by him.

Okay. Let me show you a copy of some documents.

Do you recognize that?

- Yes. - Okay. What is that?

Um, it was this paper I had on, uh, different alphabets

for, like, translations where you could write things

that nobody can read,

and this was one of the forms.

Oh, okay. Well, where'd you have that at?

Where did it-- when did you do that,

write those things out?

Sometime before I was arrested, I guess.

Okay, are you sure that you hadn't done those since you were arrested,

while you've been staying in jail?

I don't know, I might have.

Davis: Well, what-- whose names are written on that document?

Mine, Jason's, my son's,

uh, one that says Aleister Crowley and--

Just wait, wait. Who?

Aleister Crowley.

This is a document that you've written

while you've been waiting in jail for trial, right?

If you say so.

Well, you wrote it, correct?

- That's your writing? - Mm-hmm.

Okay.

You recall when you wrote it?

Not really.

Well, what I'm gonna ask you is that this Damien Seth Ezeriah Echols,

your son, he wasn't born until after you were placed in jail, correct?

- Yes. - Okay.

So if you got his name listed on this document,

then this document had to be generated after he was born, right?

Yes.

Okay, so this is something you've written

since you've been sitting in here in jail waiting for trial.

Yes.

And what you were doing was writing out various names

in different-type alphabets, correct?

From the way it looks here, I was practicing, trying to memorize 'em.

Okay, and one of the names that you picked out to write about

was this fellow named Aleister Crowley, correct?

- Mm-hmm. - Is that just--

just a total coincidence you just pulled his name out of the air?

No, it's just the same book that I had with this,

the different alphabets in it, it also had stuff about him in it.

Well, did you have the book out there at the time you were doing this?

Mm-mmm, this is was just from what I remembered myself where I was practicing,

trying to memorize, get it all in my head or--

So-so you were going over it,

and working on it in your head,

and at that point in time...

you write all this down from memory?

Mm-hmm.

Davis: The people that are listed on here,

you've got your name on here, right?

- Damien: Mm-hmm. - And then Jason Baldwin, which is your best friend, right?

And then you got Damien Seth Ezeriah Echols.

- That's your son? - Damien: Yes, it is.

Davis: Okay, and then the only other name on this document

besides yourself, your best friend,

and your son, is Aleister Crowley, correct?

Yes, sir.

I believe this witness has requested not to be photographed.

That's correct, Your Honor.

( coughing )

Would you state your name for the jury?

Christie: Christie Ann Bickle.

Okay, and do like you just did and speak up as best you can.

Okay, Christie?

- Okay. - Are you nervous?

- Christie: Yes. - John Fogelman : All right.

Okay, did you hear somebody say something

about the murder of the three little boys?

Christie: Yes, sir. I heard, um,

Damien Echols say that he'd killed the three boys.

Fogelman : Where were you?

Was he saying that to you or what were you doing?

Christie: I was walking by with my friend.

( coughing )

Christie, I'm Scott Davidson

and I've got a couple of questions to ask you too, okay?

- Okay. - Okay.

Um, first of all, uh,

do you remember what day this was that you heard this?

No, sir.

Davidson: That's the first time

you'd ever seen him in your life.

Christie: Yes, sir.

Davidson: What did he say before

you say that he said he killed those three boys?

What'd he say before that?

Christie: I don't know.

Davidson: What'd he say after that?

I don't know.

Davidson: And how-- how close were you to him?

I wasn't close.

- Davidson: Did he scream it? - Christie: I don't know.

- Davidson: Did he yell it? - Christie: I don't know.

Davidson: Call your next witness.

Man: Call Jodie Medford.

Burnett: All right, again,

this witness has requested not to be photographed.

Jodie, I want to direct your attention to May of 1993,

after the murders of the three little boys.

Did you have occasion to be at the softball field

and-and, uh, hear a comment in regard to the murders?

- Jodie Medford: Yes, sir. - Davidson: All right.

Tell the jury, uh, first--

tell the jury first what you heard.

Jodie: He said, "I killed the little boys and before I turn myself in

that I'm gonna kill two more,

and I already had one of 'em picked out."

Davidson: You didn't recognize anybody else that was with him?

Um, I saw Jason Baldwin there.

Had you heard people talking about Damien before this?

Yes, sir.

Did you think...

did you think he was kind of weird or something?

Yes, sir, 'cause he was dressed all in black,

and his hair was jet black and long, and shaved on the side.

Margaret, two teenage girls took the stand this morning,

and they said they heard Damien Echols confess to the murders

of three eight-year-old boys last May.

One of the girls said she overheard Damien Echols say, "I killed the three boys,

and I'm going to kill two more.

I already have one picked out."

Later in the afternoon, when the defense began presenting its witnesses,

Damien Echols himself took the stand.

He said he thought the girls were lying

and they were making up those statements.

He also said he did not practice Satanism

and denied any involvement in the murders

of Chris Byers, Michael Moore, and Stevie Branch.

Were you working at Bojangles restaurant

on the evening of May 5th of 1993?

Yes, sir.

Could you tell us what happened?

King: Well, it was about 9:30 at night, uh...

I found a black gentleman sitting in the women's restroom on the commode,

and there was blood dripping off of his forearm.

But he had mud on his feet

and he seemed to be disarrayed when I talked to him.

I called the police then.

Davidson: What happened then?

King: It was a female officer

for the West Memphis Police Department,

and, uh, she pulled on the light and I saw her coming

so I went up to the front door, but she kept coming around.

She went to the drive-through window.

Davidson: So you did not go in the restaurant.

No, sir, I did not.

Did you ever find this bleeding black man?

No, sir, I did not.

You have a report that you made regarding this incident?

No, sir, I do not.

Robin Wadley: And you're out looking for some boys

and you're out in that area

and you hear about someone bleeding, did that--

did anything go off in your mind thinking

that something may be going on?

Meek: Okay, first of all, you got to understand

it was a different area I went to.

It was a different ward.

I did not connect the two at all.

Well, patrolman, it may have been outside your ward,

but distance-wise between the area where you were looking

and where this restaurant was,

it's not a long distance, is it?

No, sir. It's really not.

Okay.

Davidson: Did any other officer come out there that evening?

Not that evening.

Uh, were you working on the day of May 6th of 1993?

Yes, sir.

Two detectives came out,

and they took a report as far as what I had seen.

Uh, description of the gentleman

and then they took blood scrapings off the wall.

All right, Detective Ridge, what is the date

that you sent the blood scrapings off

to the crime lab to be analyzed?

Detective Bryn Rudge: They were never sent.

- They were never sent? - That's correct.

All right, where are the blood samples at this time?

I don't know, sir. They're lost.

They're lost?

Yes, sir, that's my mistake. I lost a piece of evidence.

( chatter in background )

Most of the time, he came up with the stupid ideas.

I guess I influenced him

about as much as he influenced me, I guess.

Most of the time, we didn't really set out to do anything in particular.

We just started hanging around, whatever happened,

just usually happened.

Sometimes good, sometimes bad.

We were just sitting on the couch watching TV

the night we were arrested.

( chuckles ) Pigs busted in,

started running all over the house.

We tried to hide in the bedroom when the cops first came,

but they wouldn't leave.

We were in the bedroom, turned the light off.

Maybe they'll go away.

"I know you're in there. Open up."

( chuckles )

We saw the lights go out.

And Domini turned them back on.

- Turned them back-- - No, it was my sister.

Oh.

Robin Wadley: Well, the interesting thing about it is,

is that the-the-the one knife that we know

somebody owns... is the Byers knife.

We know he owns that knife.

Dr. James Raiscot: He's got the motive,

his son, who he's upset with,

his son was the only one mutilated.

The other two weren't mutilated.

He's-he's-he's got knowledge about the area,

he knows when the search is over with,

he's big enough that he can carry the boys there

and throw them in.

He's a jeweler, he's precise enough to have--

to have committed that mutilation.

All of the pieces fit together

with somebody in a different location

killing the boys in a different location.

Because there's no mosquito bites on them.

So we know that after the boys were killed, and during,

they weren't outside.

They had to be inside

'cause there's no mosquito bites on them.

So that means they were carried from a death scene someplace,

unconscious, and brought down to the river.

And they had to be killed shortly before they were brought down there

because they all died within a short period of time.

So after they were bled to death,

after they were bludgeoned and unconscious,

somebody had to take those three,

take them to the scene, and dump them.

In order to do that, you gotta be physically strong enough

to carry a fifty- to sixty-year-old

unconscious kid, who's hogtied.

Ja-- Jason couldn't have done it.

In his best day, he couldn't carry a little baby,

with those little skinny arms of his.

So when we look at this whole thing,

all the pieces that they tried to put together,

none of it fits with Jason,

and just about all of it fits towards a person like Byers.

Fogelman : When did you receive that knife?

On the... I believe it was on the 8th.

I've got Jan--

It's hard to make this out. January the 8th, 1994.

All right, and, who did you receive this knife from?

I received it from, uh...

I mean, how did I actually receive it?

No, who did you receive the knife from?

I received it from, uh,

Joe and the people with HBO productions.

Okay, Bruce and...

- Gitchell: Bruce and Joe. - The other one, wherever he is. All right.

Fogelman : Upon receiving that knife, what did you do with it?

Gitchell: I saw what I thought to be

some type of substance on the knife.

And, actually, I did not know what it was.

I, in turn, sent this knife to Genetic Design.

When the knife was received by your firm,

did you or your lab run tests on that particular knife?

There was a small amount of what appeared to be blood,

um, that was dried, or tissue, in a crevice on the knife

where the knife folds when it locks.

The results of the tests showed us

that, um, there was DNA present on the knife,

and that we were able to get a type using a test

called HLA BQ Alpha.

And Mr. Byers had the same type

that was detected from the specimen from the knife.

Okay, and what was the BQ Alpha type for Christopher Byers?

It was also the same type.

So, the blood on the knife, and...

Christopher Byers' blood

and John Mark Byers' blood all had the same type.

Correct.

Let me go ahead and... open it.

Judge, if I can approach the witness.

Burnett: All right.

I want you to take a good look at that knife.

And I will call that for identification purposes

the John Mark Byers knife.

Doctor, did you make the comparison with this knife, E-6,

and-- and compared that with some of the wounds that you found on Chris Byers?

Uh, yes I did.

All right, does that knife

appear to be a serrated knife?

Yes, this is a serrated knife.

Do you have an opinion if some of the wounds

that you've found on Chris Byers

were consistent with wounds which would have been caused

by that type of serrated knife?

Well, some of the wounds that have the smaller serrated patterns, um,

could have been inflicted with a knife having this type of serration.

Man: How do you think this has gone over so far

on the Mark Byers aspect?

Obviously we thought long and hard about mentioning

a father as a possible suspect.

I hate having to do that,

but the way the circumstances are...

it's just coming out whether we really want it to or not.

I mean, um...

You know, we had suspicions even before the knife showed up.

Do you think anybody realizes the reason

for the three-day delay in Jessie's trial

was waiting on that...

the DNA test to come back on that Byers knife?

Ron Lax: I doubt it.

And even after the results came back

and it showed that it could be Mark's blood

as well as Chris's blood,

that doesn't alleviate the fact

that he said no one had ever cut themself on the knife,

and it shouldn't have had blood on it at all.

Well, do you think the theory,

or that the argument at least that,

it wasn't that the blood was found on the blade,

which could be easily wiped off,

but it was back in the hinges

that you normally wouldn't think,

if you were wiping off the blood you wouldn't think

the blood would be inside the hinges,

and that's where they found that particular blood.

How do we get that in, just ask Gitchell?

Ask Byers. I mean, we could put Byers up on the stand.

Davidson: I think the jury expects to see him now.

They wanna see him up there,

they wanna see what he has to say, don't you think so?

I think so, yes.

Mr. Byers, I need to ask you about defense exhibit number E-6,

this particular folding lock-blade Kershaw knife.

If I could approach the witness, Your Honor.

Burnett: Yes.

Price: Take a look at that knife, please.

( coughing )

Had that knife ever been used before?

Used for what?

Used for any purpose?

I've had... trim your toenails with it.

I had attempted to trim

on some venison that I had.

- I-- - You attempted to trim on some venison.

When was it you attempted to trim on some venison?

Somewhere time the Thanksgiving holidays.

Do you recall being asked on January the 26th,

this is on page three, by Inspector Gitchell,

had you ever taken that knife hunting or used it recently.

Do you remember being asked that question by Inspector Gitchell?

Specifically, no, sir, he asked me a lot of questions.

All right, do you remember giving the answer,

"No, that knife had not been used at all.

It had just been kept up, put in my dresser,

and I didn't use it, and the reason why

was because of the serrated edges."

Do you recall giving that answer

to Inspector Gitchell on the 26th?

No, sir, don't recall giving him that exact answer.

I'm sure his question wouldn't have been asked

exactly like your question was--

All right, did Gitchell tell you,

"Let me explain a problem we had,

and you need to answer this for me.

We have found blood on this knife."

Did Gitchell ask you that question?

I don't remember if he said there was or not.

Price: Did you tell Gitchell you had no idea

how Chris's blood could be on that knife?

Mark: Yes, sir, I would not have any idea.

If his blood was on that knife,

I would not know how it got there.

Did you have any idea how human blood was on that knife?

Well, yes, I would have an idea.

I cut my thumb.

All right.

Is it true that you never told Inspector Gitchell

on January 26th that you ever cut your thumb

with that particular knife, did you?

Yes, sir, it seems like

during the course of the day, I did tell him that.

Was that during the taped conversation or was that after?

- I don't remember. - Okay.

Price: On the top of page eight,

do you recall being asked the question,

"I have no idea,

no idea how it could have any human blood on it."

- You recall giving that answer? - Yes, sir.

Then do you recall stating,

"I don't even remember nicking myself with it,

cutting the dinner meat or anything."

Is that the answer you gave?

- Yes, sir. - And is that the truth?

I-- at the time, when he was questioning me,

I didn't re-- I mean, I might not have remembered.

We were getting ready to go into a trial, uh...

Did you remember, on this date,

cutting yourself with the venison or not cutting yourself?

The date that Gary questioned--

The date that Gary questioned, yes, sir.

I might not have remembered it at that time when he was questioning me,

but I could have remembered it later on in the day

- and talked to him about it. - Ah, okay.

Earlier that afternoon, had you given Chris a whipping?

Approximately around 5:30.

This was about 5:30 and was-- was this with a belt?

Yes, sir.

Okay, approximately how many times

did you hit him with the belt?

I spanked him two or three times.

And on what part of the body did you spank him?

It would have been just on his behind.

Okay, was his, uh, was he wearing his pants

or did you have to pull his pants down?

No, he had on blue jeans.

Okay.

( camera shutters clicking )

Reporter: Byers, the judge back there

during that last recess, before you were recalled,

says that you have a brain tumor,

and you're being treated.

Can you-- do you want to talk about that? Is it true?

It's been rumored since Corning.

Yes, I have a brain tumor.

And you're being treated.

Yes, I'm being treated for it.

Reporter #2: I need to ask you one question,

and-and I hope you won't get angry

but has this-- this-- even the suggestion

that you may have had something to do

with the murders of these boys

caused any problems within your-- your family,

or with any of the other victims' families?

- Melissa Byers: No. - They all...

They all know the truth, and no.

Reporter #3: Do you have anything to do with these boys' deaths?

No more than you did.

Reporter #4: Fogelman says you're buying a new house.

Is that why you're leaving West Memphis?

- Mark: I didn't say that. - Fogelman did this morning.

Reporter #5: Yeah, he said that's why you were leaving.

You know, we might try to move.

Reporter #4: Out of West Memphis?

Well, somewhere. I mean, you would probably wanna move.

- You know. - Did you say where you're going to move?

- Do you want to say? - No.

Melissa: Let me ask you a question, Mr. Sullivan,

would you want to live in a house that your baby died

in less than three-fourths of a mile from it?

- Reporter: I wouldn't, no. - Mike: No? Okay.

That answers the question. Come on.

Reporter: You're talking about your whole family though, right?

You're not just talking about you.

Mike: You wouldn't move and leave your wife

and children somewhere, would you?

Reporter: Not if we were gonna stay together, no.

Mark: Okay. ( chuckles )

I mean, some of the questions you ask are kind of ridiculous.

You know, I know you're not asking,

but some of them are kind of...

odd or strange or different

or, you know, however you'd like to comment on them.

But some of them

it seems like you'd just use a little common sense

and think about what you would do or how you would feel.

Some of the questions you fellows

would never have to ask.

- Well the only thing is-- - We have to ask them.

We have to ask them, so we can't quote ourselves. We have to...

I know, but then a lot of times things are printed in the paper

that people did not say, and the news media,

and I'm not stating which individual,

says they got it from a confidential informer,

and you don't have to turn your confidential informer over

when your confidential informer is your imagination.

Well...

You know, there's a lot of things that's printed

in the paper that people did not say.

But the media has the rights to print what they want to print.

You know, victims don't have any rights.

- ( chatter ) - ( shutters clicking )

( metal detector beeping )

Now that I've heard him talk,

I don't...

I kinda of had an idea what he was like before he talked,

but after he talked, he wasn't anything like I thought he would be.

Reporter: How is he?

I see him now as more like a human being than I did before.

Now I see him as having a personality.

From a defense standpoint, I've never been a defense attorney,

but to put him on the witness stand

sure seemed to be an awful big gamble.

And I can't understand the mind-set that puts you

in the position where you're willing to take that gamble.

Fogelman : Especially when you follow it up

with Mr. Bojangles's accusations,

it didn't make any sense.

'Cause it, to me,

if I were on the jury,

it would look like just some-- something desperate.

You know, they're gonna cast blame on anybody and everybody they can.

Of course-- and the defense

didn't have the guts to actually ask him, "Did he do it?"

The song that I just really can relate to

by Metallica, "The Sanitarium."

'Cause I feel like all those times

that I was in the hospital, I didn't need it.

It was just the police,

another way for them setting me up

when they couldn't send me to prison or something.

Like, "Well, we'll get him out of our way

for a little while by...

sending him somewhere else."

Hmm.

I like Metallica because,

well, all hard music like that because...

it, like, gives me an adrenaline rush and...

makes me feel more alive.

( music playing )

( footsteps clomping )

( keys jingling )

( handcuffs jingling )

( door slams loudly )

( door slams loudly )

Now, during the course of talking to Mr. Echols,

did you ask him who did he think did it and why?

In one area he says

he had an opinion for who could've done the murders

as being someone sick

and that it was some type of thrill kill.

He also stated that the penis was a symbol of power

in his religion known as Wicca.

He also stated that the number three

has a sacred number in the belief.

Fogelman: And did he tell you anything about demonic forces?

Yes, sir, he said that all people have a demonic force

in them and that a person

would have no control over that demonic force.

Price: Mr. Echols is not the only person

that told you that the children,

the kids probably died of mutilation, was he?

Ridge: No, sir.

Price: And with Mr. Echols, you asked him

something to the effect of what type of books did he enjoy reading?

- Ridge: Yes, sir. - Okay, and...

Price: Um, and he told you, I'm thinking,

is it Anton LaVey and Stephen King?

- Yes, sir. - Okay.

Now, in your opinion, is there anything unusual

about those being the type of books

that Mr. Echols likes to read?

( sighing )

Anton LaVey is a book

of Satanic rules and involvement.

Uh, Stephen King seems to be

horror movies, horror books,

and if you're asking if I felt that was strange,

- yes, sir, I did. - All right.

Now, let me refer you back to your statement

that you gave Officer Ridge.

Did you tell him in that statement that you had been

a member of a white witch group for five years?

- No. - Okay.

Damien: I have never been a member of any group.

And so, if he put that in his report,

you're saying that's inaccurate.

- Yes, I am. - He made that up.

Yes, I am.

Davis: On question number nine, "How do you think it would--

the person feels that did this?"

the answer was, "Probably makes them feel good.

Gives them power."

Now, I guess Officer Ridge said that, too.

No, I used common sense on that.

- Okay. - If someone was doing it, then they must've wanted to.

And if they were doing something they wanted to, it must've made them happy.

I don't think they were doing it

because someone forced them to

or because they didn't want to.

Okay. So in your mind,

the person that killed these three kids,

it's common sense that killing three eight-ear-old kids

would make you feel good.

Whoever did it, it must have.

Davis: Okay. Did you also tell him

that each person had a demonic side to them?

I believe every person has a good side and a bad side, yes.

Well, did you-- were those your words when you referred--

what he's got written down here,

he stated that there was no control

of the demonic portion of people?

He asked me did I think there were some people

that they could not control that side.

I said, "Yes, I guess there is."

David: It also states that Damien stated that

the younger the victim was made more innocent,

and in turn, more power would be given the person doing the killing.

- Right. - Okay. Did you say that?

- Yes. Mm-hmm. - Okay, those are your words.

Did you pick that up when you were studying to be a Catholic?

No, I saw that on several movies, books.

Davis: Question number 11,

when he asked you how do you think they died,

and its answer is mutilation, cut up all three,

heard they were in the water drowning,

cut up one more than the others.

Is that, again, what Officer Ridge said and you just agreed?

No, I had saw that on TV, newspapers, people talking.

And...

you knew it about the drowning, correct?

I knew they were in the water. I didn't know that they drowned.

You knew that one was cut up more than the others.

Damien: He asked me, "Was it possible--"

he said, "Do you think one was hurt

worse than the others?" I said, "Yeah, I guess."

Davis: Oh. So again, that particular area's one of those things

where Officer Ridge told you and that wasn't your response.

You just responded about the drowning and mutilation.

If he didn't get the answer he liked,

he would go back and try to get me to say something else.

Davis: And it's your testimony specifically

that you weren't the one who said

one was cut up more than the other.

- No, I did not. - That it was Officer Ridge who said that.

I agreed with him when he said that.

Okay.

And if he says something different, that'd be--

He'd-- he'd be lying about it, right?

You're the one telling the truth.

I wouldn't put it past him.

Lax: Damien, we're getting close to the end now.

How do you feel so far?

I feel good so far.

So far, to me it looks like we've got it beat.

Lax: What do you think the worst thing for us

right now has been?

In the three weeks we've been over here,

what has hurt the most?

I only know of two things that have really hurt:

that one kid getting up there with Jason.

- Yeah. - And, um, those girls.

Lax: The Thursday's newspaper which addressed

you testifying on Wednesday was real good.

It talked about that you did well,

but Friday's regarding your Thursday testimony wasn't as good.

What do you think?

I think I did real good in the first day,

and the second day it didn't look as good

because Davis kept trying to trip me up or something.

Lax: There was one point in there, though, where he asked you,

he says it looks like you're just changing your story

to fit whatever comes up.

And you said, "Yeah."

I was just, like, halfway listening to him.

After all, I was-- I was real nervous when I first got up there,

and I have to keep my attention focused and everything,

but after I was up there a few minutes,

I started daydreaming.

Lax: Daydreaming.

( chuckles )

Maybe they'll only halfway kill you when they convict you.

- Halfway? - Yeah.

- How'll they do that? - I don't know.

Maybe they'll start daydreaming and forget what they're doing.

Anything wrong with wearing black in and of itself?

No.

Anything wrong with the heavy metal stuff in and of itself? No.

The Book of Shadows, anything wrong with that in and of itself? No.

But when you look at it together, and you get,

you begin to see inside Damien Echols,

you see inside that person.

And you look inside there and there's not a soul in there.

My client is a teenager,

and we certainly didn't hide that fact from you.

And the fact that my client did some writings--

take these back, go back and read 'em, go read all these.

But this, in and of itself, is no evidence of murder.

And even if you add in all the other things,

quote, "trappings of occultism," according to Dr. Griffiths,

that has nothing to do with this case whatsoever.

Is it a coincidence,

this knife is found behind in the lake,

hidden behind Jason Baldwin's house?

There are marks on Christopher Byers,

where you got, like a dash where it's cut,

a cut, an open space, a cut and an open space.

And if you take this knife and do that,

you can see it leaves

a cut and an open space, cut and an open space.

Now if you take...

this knife, exhibit...

defense exhibit six,

and even with the slightest pressure...

It makes a straight line.

Crime scene.

It doesn't fit for a kid to bleed to death

and not leave a drop behind.

For all the other injuries to their faces,

these other injuries are gonna bleed, too.

And there's not a drop of blood?

Not a drop of blood?

Look at history,

look at hundreds of years of religious history.

There have been hundreds of people killed in the name of religion.

It is a motivating force.

It gives people who want to do evil,

want to commit murders,

a reason to do what they're doing.

Ford: Satanic panic.

Yeah, that's a scary thing.

But it's a scarier thing to convict someone with no evidence.

If you can't figure it out, if it doesn't make sense,

let's call it a cult killing,

and find somebody weird!

Find somebody who wears black!

But they let one thing go by the wayside:

is that there's nothing that links Jason to these activities.

Not one witness says, "That's what he does, that's his beliefs."

We don't have a writing, no drawing,

not a picture, not a person, nothing...

links him to it.

But that doesn't matter. That didn't matter to them.

Because he's sitting over there with Damien.

They want you to convict him.

Guilt by association is a horrible thing.

( camera shutters clicking )

Reporter: Damien, do you think he looks like you?

I don't know.

Not really. I think he's got Domini's ears.

( camera shutters clicking )

Reporter #2: Can you change his diapers, Damien?

Hopefully not.

( giggling )

Reporter #2: So do you think you'll be spending more time

with your child, Damien?

Hopefully. I hope.

Man: Come on, Damien, it's time.

( indistinct chatter)

( mumbling )

Man: So what's his first words gonna be, not guilty?

Um, his first words will be capital murder.

( chuckles )

Ford: What's it feel like to be--

to go through a month-long trial,

accused of something you didn't do?

Horrible.

( bang )

Ford: Are you nervous now?

- Yeah. - I mean, there's nothing we can do right now

but sit around and wait, but...

um, you-- you got anything you want to ask me?

Where do we go when, um, the jury comes back out and says I'm not guilty?

( chuckles )

Well, where do you wanna go?

- I don't know. - Where do you want to go?

- Disneyland, maybe. - Would you?

- Would you like to go to Disneyland? - Yeah.

Have you-- have you ever been anywhere out of--

have you ever been on a trip at all?

- Haver Springs. - Haver Springs.

Well, I'll tell you what, my man, I-I--

It'd be a joy to take you.

Would you like to go? You would, wouldn't you?

Jason: Yeah.

Ford: Do you understand now why we, uh...

why we didn't want you to testify?

Yeah.

Can you see how it hurt Damien?

You-- I think it did.

And then see how they talked about his witnesses.

- Mm-hmm. - See, they don't have anything to talk about us.

They don't have anything to talk about,

cause we didn't give them a chance.

And, uh...

( sighing ) Oh, man.

It's heavy.

Do you think that, um, this'll change at all?

How you treat your friends?

Yeah.

What do you think this would do?

What do you think this is gonna do to you and Damien?

You and your friendship with Damien?

( bang )

Stop it, I guess.

Would you stop being his friend?

I wouldn't be his enemy, but after this,

I probably wouldn't be around or nothing.

You-you heard what was said about him.

Do you think he could have done it?

Isn't that what they said?

Yeah, you think he could have,

do you thank Damien could have killed those little boys?

They made it seem like he did.

- What do you think? - I don't know.

If you were on that jury, you'd have--

would you have a hard time letting him go?

Based on what you heard?

Yeah.

I would, too.

Would you let yourself go?

Yeah. If I was up there, I'd let myself go, yeah.

That's what I wanted to hear.

Ford: 'Cause you know you didn't do it, don't you?

Yeah.

Lax: Did Paul surprise you on his closing?

Damien: I think Paul should have left out

the guilt by association part.

- That's not-- - He came down hard on that, didn't he?

Mm-hmm.

Did you have any idea he was gonna do that?

Hmm-mm.

I thought he'd be smart enough to stay away from it.

Hurt your feelings?

I wanted to strangle him.

( chuckles )

Were you watching the jury?

Mm-hmm.

How do you pick it?

With my finger. No.

( nervous chuckling )

Now I think it was probably about 60/40.

40 for and 60 against.

Once you get out of here, you gonna buy the beer?

The whiskey. I don't know about beer.

And I'll buy the Bojangles chicken.

( chuckling )

I want to get a cigar,

cut it open and dump all the tobacco out,

fill it with marijuana,

smoke the whole thing.

I mean, we gotta get you out of here.

You gotta go to work where you can pay my bill.

I need to get a job at a gas station or something.

Change my name to Bob Smith.

All right, ladies and gentlemen,

the bailiffs inform me, uh, that you've arrived at verdicts.

If you-- if you have, pass 'em to the bailiff,

please, or the sheriff and...

Okay, thank you.

The first verdict reads as follows.

"We jury find Damien Echols guilty of capital murder

in the death of Stevie Branch.

We the jury find Damien Echols guilty of capital murder

in the death of Chris Byers.

We the jury find Damien Echols guilty of capital murder

in the death of Michael Moore.

We the jury find Jason Baldwin guilty of capital murder

in the death of Chris Byers.

We the jury find Jason Baldwin guilty of capital murder

in the death of Stevie Branch.

We the jury find Jason Baldwin guilty of capital murder

in the death of Michael Moore."

All of the verdicts are signed by the foreman.

And ladies and gentlemen,

it's necessary at this time that the court

poll the jury as to all six verdicts, so...

- ( screaming ) - ...when your name is called,

if these six verdicts represent your individual verdict,

then answer yes as your name is called.

Juror number one.

- Juror #1: Yes. - Woman: Juror number two.

Juror #2: Yes.

Woman: Juror number three.

Juror #3: Yes.

Woman: Juror number four.

( sobbing )

- Woman: Juror number five. - Juror #5: Yes.

- Woman: Juror number six. - Juror #6: Yes.

- Woman: Juror number seven. - Juror #7: Yes.

The prosecution didn't have any evidence,

but they don't care.

Just because somebody wears black and has different beliefs,

they're gonna convict them of something.

Poor, poor, parents. Yeah, I'm sorry for them.

- But... - I ain't. I ain't sorry for them.

I'm sorry for the kids.

I don't give a damn about the parents,

- but I'm sorry for the kids. - I ain't even sorry for them.

I'm not sorry for anybody.

There is no reason they...

killed three more boys.

It didn't do a damn thing.

( sobbing )

So right now, I wish I was a witch.

Talk about a spell on somebody?

Boy, I'd put a good one on.

I guess Gitchell goes out with a big bang.

Didn't know he was fuckin' gonna retire.

Woman: He's already said he was gonna retire.

Now he's probably gonna run for office.

I got an office for him.

Mayor of hell.

Far as I'm concerned, West Memphis can go to hell.

Woman: West Memphis is hell.

I have, uh, put my 20 years in,

and hopefully this is the last case

I'll have of this magnitude.

Hopefully it's my last case.

And, uh, I'm leaving on a high note,

so there's no better way to leave

than with your head up high and proud.

Well, you know, I-I don't...

I'm not surprised if that-- that's what you're asking.

You know, I told you earlier that I thought the evidence was

more than sufficient to make those findings.

They won't kill no more babies.

No more babies will they kill.

Let's go.

Mmm.

Make sure you put locks-- go ahead, right behind him.

Hand me those gadgets. Yeah.

Officer: The black one and blue-- blue.

Man: Here you go.

Let me put this here.

Here we go.

( indistinct instructions )

- Ready? - Yup.

( chatter )

- Woman: You gonna get out. - Woman #2: I know.

Reporter: Do you have any comment on...

- Woman: You gonna get out. - Woman #2: I know.

Reporter #2: What'd you think about the verdict?

Reporter: Damien, did you do it?

Man: You're gonna fry, Damien!

Man #2: How you feeling now, Damien?

Woman: You're gonna fry, Damien.

Man: What do you think, Jason?

Man: Gonna fry!

Woman: See you in hell, Damien.

Man: We know you're innocent, Jason.

( engine revving )

( crowd clamoring )

I knew from when I was real small

that people were gonna know who I was.

I always had that feeling.

But I just never knew how they were gonna learn.

Hmm.

I kind of enjoy it because now even after I die,

people are going to remember me forever.

They're gonna talk about me for years.

People in West Memphis will tell their kids stories.

It-it-it'll be like,

sort of, like, I'm the West Memphis boogeyman.

Little kids will be looking under their bed

before they go to bed.

"Damien might be under there."

( air hissing )

( music playing )