All language subtitles for Hart to Heart s03e08 J Cole.eng

**

-Wow! How excited am I?

Ladies and gentlemen,
my guest today

is one of those rare artists
who sells a ton of records.

He gets rave reviews
from critics and influences

a whole generation
of young rappers.

He won a ton of awards,
and even tied the record

of a little group
called The Beatles

for having six simultaneously
top-20 hits

on the Billboard charts.

And besides all that, the guy
can actually play basketball --

not a little bit,
actually a lot of bit.

You should see his jump shot.
Ladies and gentlemen,

I'm talking about
none other than J. Cole.

Get out here, J.
-Ooh!

-Look at that, man.
See how I pieced that together?

-That boy is a pro.
-Good to see you, man.

-You too, bro.
-You look good, man.

-Thank you, man. You, too.
Thanks for having me.

-Ah, man, thank you
for being here, dude.

You know, J., this show --
I say it all the time

when people come on,
just to set the tone,

make sure the temperature
is right, the climate is good,

'cause I want you
to be relaxed.

This is a show
where it's about the artist.

I'm here to give flowers
to those that deserve 'em.

-I appreciate it. Thank you.
-That conversation is done

over a glass of wine.

I wanna call my somm in here.
DLynn.

Come on on in, D.

My God.
What are we drinking today, D.?

-There you go.
Mr. Hart, Mr. Cole World.

-How ya doin', brother?
-Very good, very good.

A beautiful 2020 Syrah...
-Not 2020.

-...Edna Valley.
-Not Edna Valley.

-Classic, beautiful,
less than 100 cases produced.

-Less than 100.
-Fantastic wine. May I?

-Yes, please, please.
Only the best for Cole World.

-Absolutely.

-That's what I --
you already know how we do.

-Yes, indeed.
Grab a taste of that.

I'll pour Mr. Cole...
-Oohh!

-Let me go ahead. Yeah.
You know. See, J. --

J. is one of the people
that actually lives life

actually on the very clean side,

and I said, "I'm not gonna
force you to do anything,

but you still need
to look the part."

So that man's got some water.
-Man!

That's really thoughtful.
I appreciate that, man.

-Absolutely, man.
Come on, man, toast.

-Is -- can you actually --
it's water, right?

-That's water.
-Then we gotta do it

long distance, really,
'cause to actually clink water,

I feel like it's --
it's, like I said --

-Do you know something
I don't know?

-No, it's considered bad luck
to cheers --

-Who told you that?
-This was a long time ago.

-I've been doing it
for a long time,

so shit gonna change in my life,
tell me now.

-Oh, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah.

-Goddamn it!
-I don't even know.

It's just one of the things,
I'm like, I'd rather not.

But we'll do an air drink.
-Air, air.

-Love, brother.
Thank you for having me, man.

-Um, J., man, God,
where do I start?

First I want to start
by saying congrats.

I've known you for a long time.
-Thank you, bro.

-A long fucking time, man.
I remember first meeting you.

I was in New York.
I had a comedy show.

-Do you remember this? Oh.
-I remember.

Had a comedy show in New York.
I was performing in the round.

-Yep.
You were at the Westbury --

it was like
the Westbury Theatre.

-You are 1,000% right.
-Yep.

-You came to the show.
-You were doing, like,

multiple nights at that point.
-Yeah. I did about six shows.

-Yes, bro.
-Six shows there.

-Crazy.
-You came to the show.

It was dope because
this was one of, like, my --

-I bought tickets, by the way.

-Here's why it was dope.

This was, like, one of my first
real moments of, like,

getting the support from
my generation's, like, next.

Like, we're a part
of the same timestamp.

We were starting
at the same point.

We were all bubbling
at the same point.

And that show you came to,

I remember you left
and it was dope as fuck.

I was, like, yo, man.
That was dope he came through.

He had tickets.
He supported.

And it was big because I was,
like, damn, man,

they starting to fuck with me.

-Mm-hmm.
-That was, like, my --

my little inkling of they're
starting to fuck with me.

Like, he came out to see --
support -- it was a big deal.

-Yes.
-We talked in the back.

We shook hands.
You showed me love.

I showed the same amount
of love back.

And that J. Cole then is
nowhere near the J. Cole of now.

Right?
The J. Cole now is dope as fuck

because you're just at
a different place in your life.

And I don't want to start
from the beginning.

I want to start, like, with now.

You are at such a --

it seems to be a place of peace
and a place of calm, right?

And at some point,
something happened somewhere,

some way, some what, to make you
make the decision to go,

"I'm gonna flip things around
and I'm gonna protect mine

and really focus on me."

-Mm-hmm.
-What was that moment for you?

-Oh, it was...

probably about, like,
two albums in.

I was two albums in,
but I was probably, like,

four or five projects in.
-Okay.

-And it was, like,
just noticing that on paper.

You know, on paper I --

on paper,
if I would have showed

the 14-year-old version of me
what I had accomplished,

if I could go back in time
and be, like,

"Bro, look what you just did,"

the 14-year-old version
of me would be, like --

like, "What?!"
Like, "I knew it!"

You know what I mean?
But the actual --

at that time,
28-year-old version,

or 29-year-old version
was not feeling like a --

was not feeling good.
You know what I mean?

He was not feeling --
wasn't enough appreciation

and wasn't enough,
like, recognition

of what I was actually doing.

-Okay.
-Too much emphasis and focus

on where I wasn't yet.
-Okay.

-And that hadn't been me
up until that point.

So that sparked -- it probably
was, like, a couple years --

-Is that you?
You're saying, like,

the focus on what you were doing

and the emphasis
from the outside --

was that you putting
pressure on yourself?

Is that you not being happy
with not hearing

certain things
about the work you're doing?

-100%.
-Okay. All right.

-It was ego-driven, 100%.
-Got it. Got it.

-It was like there was a nugget
somebody dropped for me.

They didn't know what I was
going through, necessarily,

but maybe they saw something.

But it sparked --

it sparked a practice
that would lead me

to exactly what you started
the conversation with,

which was, like, just a more,
like, peaceful place in my life

and more of a "phew, phew!"
You know what I mean?

And that was a --
at the time, I had --

and at this time,
it's the team.

The team ain't right.
You know what I mean?

At that time, it was ego-driven.

Like, you're not getting
the things that you want.

And this time, for me, it was,
like, "Oh, the Grammys.

They not fucking with me.

Oh, the such and such magazine,
or this --

why I'm not up here?"
You know what I mean?

This was quietly
what was happening in my mind.

So I got with this new
publicist, Kathryn Frazier,

and she's amazing woman,

and, you know,
in the midst of us talking,

we would have conversations
outside of, like, just career,

and she was just telling me
how she was into meditation.

She was into, like,
transcendental meditation.

Boom, boom.
And I had flirted with it,

like, in my early 20s,
like, practiced it a little bit.

Just didn't really know
what I was doing,

but had a nice
little experience.

But I didn't dive into it.
But mind you,

her telling me about that
was coinciding with me

realizing, yo,
something's going on, bro.

You gotta --
so I had set rules for myself.

One was, well, bro, you can't go
on social media no more.

Like, we're from the first
generation of, like,

entertainers,
celebrities, whatever

where it's like, bro, you could
literally, at any minute,

see what somebody is saying
about you, know what I mean?

And, like,
there was nobody to tell you --

like, cigarettes.

When the whole world for decades
was smoking cigarettes,

there wasn't anybody loudly
saying, like,

"That's gonna kill you
in about --

you probably shouldn't do that."

Took a long time for somebody
to realize how harmful this was.

And similarly,
we are in a generation

where our entertainers,

our basketball players,
our boom-boom,

like, no one was there,
and, even now,

nobody's there to be, like,
"Don't Google yourself.

Don't search your name
or boom-boom."

So I say all that to say
I had set some rules for myself,

some baseline rules.
Like, yo, don't --

don't go on Twitter,
don't read your replies.

Do not search your name.
Boom, boom.

That's rule number one.
Number two --

when you're creating, you gotta
create from a pure place only.

Like, there was a rule
I set for myself,

like, everything has to only be

truly what you feel
in your heart, boom-boom.

-This is, of course,
coming because you saw --

you saw yourself
do the opposite.

-Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
-You saw yourself dive deep

into the space of social media.
I'm searching.

I see what they're saying.
I'm getting angry.

-[ Laughing ] Oh, yeah!
-I'm getting irritated.

-Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
-How to fuck with the fucked.

-For sure.
-Okay. Now I'm creating

and my creating
is coming from --

-Yes, bro!
-This is infusing

and influencing my creative.
-100%.

-Bitch, I see what you said.
-Yeah.

-Like, it's now becoming
a part of you.

-It's the nastiest place
to ever do some

artful shit and some pure --
it's just like,

yo, you can't -- it's like

you have to really leave
all room, I feel like,

in the creative process, for,
like, for God.

You know what I mean?
And the minute you start, like,

thinking about
what somebody else

is gonna think about it --
boom, boom, boom --

I caught myself in that space
for a moment.

And it was so unfamiliar to me

'cause that's never
how I used to work.

-Mm-hmm.
-And so to get up out of that,

I had to set these ground rules.
-Was it a struggle, though?

Was it an easy transition?

-It was easy --
-Or was it a battle?

-No, it was a --

I mean, I'm not gonna say
it was, like --

'cause you realize
those things are addictions.

Right?
Those things become addictions.

Like, social media
becomes an addiction.

So, yeah, in a sense,
it's like

you have to check yourself

and tell yourself, like,
"Don't do that."

-Mm-hmm.
-You know what I mean?

Like, or catch yourself.
"No, get off of there."

But every time you --
every time I feel like...

Every time you say no, like,
while battling,

like, an addiction,
it's like you get stronger.

You add a pebble to your,
like, to your strength.

You know what I mean?
-I like that.

-You know what I mean?
It's, like, yo,

a "no" is a powerful thing
and you get stronger,

and the other thing gets
just a little more weaker.

So -- But so while I set
these ground rules for myself,

she mentioned the meditation,
and she had explained to me,

like, how her experience with it
and how life-changing it was

and how clear she felt --
boom, boom.

So I was, like, you know what?
I was out in L.A.

Like, I had came out here
to work on the album.

I had the album title.

It was
"2014 Forest Hills Drive."

I had it all mapped out.

I knew what the album
was gonna be called.

I knew I was gonna buy
the house back.

It all felt like it was, like,
supposed to happen.

And I started adding that.

By the time five months hit,

I would have these revelations
and clarity about my life,

and I would see what was
actually happening in my life

and where I was headed.
You know what I mean?

-I love the space
that you're at, man.

Let's stop right here
for a second.

Guys, we're gonna
take a quick break.

We gotta pay some bills.

We'll be right back with more
"Hart to Heart" after this.

**

**

-Ah, welcome back, guys.

We are still here with J. Cole,

and this is "Hart to Heart."
And, J., dude,

I gotta let you pick right back
up where you left off

'cause you were in
such a good place.

So the album comes out.
I mean, look,

you get to this space
of amazing clarity.

Holy shit, you drop this album.
Life-changing album.

After going through
the meditation process,

the first proof of concept is

the product that was developed
during or while or after.

So the lightbulb now
that goes off is what?

-Nah, I just -- my take was,

this is what it feels like
when you -- when you

are really in tune
with yourself,

really in tune with God,

when the noise can't enter.

You know what I mean?
This is what it feels like.

And even to this day, bro,
it's like --

it's funny 'cause I find myself
talking about meditation a lot,

but it's not like --

but it's only because
in conversation,

I meet people and they're
telling me about,

like, things that
I went through.

And I'm just telling them, like,
"This is what I did."

But the interesting thing
is it's, like,

it got me to a place where

my lowest point
is so much higher

than what my lowest point
used to be.

But I will say
I'm not a person

that currently, to this day,

just wakes up
and meditates every day.

I think about, like, Rick Rubin.

When I watch these
Rick Rubin interviews

and he just feels like
just a sensei master.

And I just imagine him
waking up every day

and just meditating
three times a day.

And maybe he doesn't,
but it's my impression of him.

And I realized that, like,
oh, man,

people probably have
that impression about me,

because I've spoken about it.

They probably think
I'm on some, like...

But the truth is, no.
It's like,

I use meditation now as, like --

I say as, like, an emergency
"break glass" thing

where it's like,
if I'm feeling high anxiety,

you know what I mean,
for whatever is happening

in my life, which is not often
right now,

but if something's coming up
where it's like, "Phew,

I'm feeling anxiety about this,"
like, this is --

then I'll use it as, like,

"Let me get back
to a balanced state."

But I'm not currently in a space
where it's, like,

I'm meditating every day,
boom-boom-boom. No.

I feel like that year
or two-year stretch

that I was on it,
it gave me a nice, like,

boost in my life
to where it's, like,

now I'm kind of coasting.
And I do, though, believe that,

even in this state right now
that I'm in,

if I meditated every day, like,
I feel like I'd be a superhero.

You know what I mean?
'Cause I feel like everything

would just -- phew, phew! --
off me like water.

-It's repelling.
-Yes, bro. Yes.

-When you say anxiety,
do you feel like --

is the anxiety
from the business?

Is the anxiety from the pressure

that you sometimes
put on yourself?

Is the anxiety from household?

Family? Wife?
Where's the anxiety from?

-Like, when I say emergency
"break glass" situation,

like, there was a time when

my first child
was gonna be born,

and the anxiety
I felt was more like --

it wasn't, like,
"Oh, I'm about to have a kid."

But it was probably the
culmination of all these things,

but I was also finishing
an album at that time.

We was doing the classes,
trying to learn about, like,

the birthing process
and all of this.

Boom, boom, boom.
So it was, like --

it was one of those moments
when everything was

kind of, like,
a lot was happening,

and that was, like, a moment
where I just needed to --

you know, before one of
the classes that we had,

which I loved those classes
that we took.

It was called Hypnobabies.

I recommend that
for anybody that's --

-Hypno?
-Hypnobabies.

-Wow. Okay.
-Basically, it's like

a birthing class that --
you know, first of all,

I think the first,
most important thing it does

is it prepares both parents
for the realities or,

like, the information
that you might need

to arm yourself
when you go into the hospital --

-I didn't know that shit
until my babies came out.

Was a shit show around here.

-It had me fully prepared.

-Yeah. I wasn't.
-Yeah.

-I just said,
"I'll figure it out."

They came out. A lot of shit
happened fast, too.

-It worked though, right?

-I was at the doctor
all the time.

The baby coughing --
"Doc, what's happening?"

"It's just a cough."
"All right."

-No, no, no, no.
Not that, though. Not that.

-I'm telling you it was for me.
-Okay. All right, man.

-I was that guy.
-No, me too, though, by the way.

This is just...
-Everything scared me.

-...the birthing process.
After that baby's out,

they don't got nothing for you.
-Okay. This was like...

-They have nothing to offer you.
-...going through the course

of the nine months
and, you know --

-When that water breaks,

this is what you need
to look out for.

-Were you there
when the water broke?

-Yeah!
-I was downstairs.

-Oh, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah,
for sure, for sure.

No, no, no, I didn't see it
like a movie, by the way.

-Okay. I was about to say --
-No, no, no.

It wasn't no movie moment.
-It broke! Ah, shit!

-No, no, no.
-Got you!

-No. It was uneventful.
It's not like the movies.

You know, in the movies
you make it feel like it's a --

like, some sort of, like,
"Pssshhh!"

-Yeah. Then you gotta,
"I'll get the car!"

-No. It wasn't like that.
-"I'll get the car!

You got the bag?"

"It's already packed
by the door!"

-Yeah. None of that.
-None of that shit happened.

-No, no, no.
-I was really downstairs.

"Babe, my water broke!"
"Huh?!

Huh?!" Yeah. That's where I was.
I love that you are --

that you are this deep
into it, though.

I love, like,
that you are this focused.

I love that you
are this in tune.

Amazing!
But we gotta take a beat.

We gotta take a beat
because I gotta pay bills.

Guys, we'll be right back
with more "Hart to Heart"

and J. Cole after this.

**

**

-And we are back.
This is still "Hart to Heart."

And that is still J. Cole.

Um, what I want to say now,
though, that I really love is,

like, there was a time when you
weren't getting your just due.

There was a time
where the conversation

attached to your name
wasn't what you wanted it to be,

wasn't what you thought
it should be.

And then there's a shift,
there's a narrative,

there's a change,
and J. Cole, as a rapper,

is mentioned as an artist,

is mentioned as one of
our best rappers of our time.

Your cult following
is like none other.

Your fans are bigger
than just, like, fans.

Like, the idea of you releasing,
the idea of you showing up,

they come out in droves.

What is your feeling now
with your place in the business,

with your place
in the conversation?

Like, have you taken that in
completely?

And do you now realize
what you mean to rap

and where you stand in rap?

-I'm not gonna say
I realize it 'cause

I'm more disconnected
than I was before.

-Mm-hmm.
-But I'm appreciative

and I'm grateful.

-And disconnected because
you don't want that to sway a...

anticipated feeling,
like, expectation.

In other words, like, you're
disconnected where it's like,

"Okay, I'll get used to that
and I expect that.

And then when I don't hear it,

it could act as a trigger
of old."

So the disconnection allows you
to be removed from that.

-I think it's just more of
a natural disconnection

of, man, I'm -- I'm fulfilled.
-Got it.

-I'm fulfilled
with the experience I've had,

what I've done, what I'm doing.

I'm fulfilled with the reaction
that I get.

You know what I mean?
So it's, like, a --

when you ask, like,
what do I feel about my place,

it's grateful.

And where you, like --

'cause when I was younger,
it was all about,

"Man, I want --
when that go down" --

I don't know if it's
like this for comedy.

-"When that go down,
I want to be on the list.

I want to be at the top,
boom, boom.

Know what I mean?
-Yes.

-And as I'm older now,
it's like that feeling --

are those always
still gonna be there?

It's much more peaceful.

It's much more, like,
understanding.

Like, yo,
back then there was --

there was a thought
that you could be unanimous,

that you could, hands down,
unanimous.

Everybody would know.

In your mind --
in my mind, back in the day,

I'm like, everybody know Tupac
is the best rapper, right?

Or then, at certain points,
like, everybody know

Jay-Z is the best rapper, right?

There was a feeling
that this was attainable.

But then you realize that,
like, actually, no.

Those guys never had it either.

You know what I mean?
It's not actually possible.

-It's not.
-You know, even in comedy,

somebody gonna say Eddie Murphy
is the greatest of all time.

Somebody gonna say, "What?
Dave Chappelle, Richard Pryor.

He ain't better
than Richard Pryor."

"Oh, Richard Pryor
ain't got nothing on X, Y, Z."

So it's, like, --

once I realized that
that wasn't possible, it --

or maybe the other thing
came first.

Maybe, like,
I just got comfortable

in who I was
and what I was doing.

And then I realized, like, oh,
that wasn't attainable either.

But, anyways, that why I said
it's, like, yo, man,

I'm just happy
to be talkin', man.

Y'all, I appreciate that
y'all talking about it, but --

-But you're in the conversation.
-Well, I'm in the conversation.

You put me over there? Cool.
You put me up there?

That's amazing.
-You know where I got to,

or where I'm at now?
I love the fact

that I've been able to do
the things that I've done.

There was a moment
where I was doing sitcoms.

Right?
These are, like, pilots.

So every sitcom you're doing,
you want this to get picked up.

Right? There was a moment
where I did so many pilots

that didn't get picked up.

One day --
I'll never forget this shit.

I was home and I was, like,
"It's me."

-[ Laughs ]

-I said, "These shows got
one common denominator,

and it's me."

[ Both laugh ]

These people don't want me
to make it.

I was, like --
I was on number nine.

And I remember John Stamos --

This is a true story.
Shout out to John Stamos.

John Stamos -- he had a show
called "Jake in Progress."

"Jake in Progress"
was on the air.

Right? They were going into,
like, another season.

This is, like,
the show's doing well.

John Stamos is, like, "I really
like this guy Kevin Hart."

They had a part.

Man, they signed me on
to do five episodes.

I did two episodes
and the show got cancelled.

And I said, "Fuck this shit!

Fuck this shit, man."

-[ Laughs ]

-"It's me, man!"

I remember, literally,
having that conversation.

And I had to check myself
and stay, like --

stay on the course.

But what I eventually realized,

and I was, like, man, like,
ultimately you start competing

with the versions
of your success

that you're trying
to achieve again.

-Hoo!
-And when you are shooting

out that spaceship
and you start going real fast,

as you keep going up,

you're using
your rise as your landmark.

And some of those things
you're not gonna

be able to do again.
-That's a bar.

-And once I got that down,
I think the pressure --

the pressure started to be
removed a little bit

because it was box office --
I put out a movie.

It's gotta go number one.
-Mm-hmm.

-If we don't go to number one,
then it's over.

Fuck. Okay.
If I'm going on tour.

If I don't sell out, it's done.
I gotta sell out.

If I don't sell out on a tour,
what am I gonna do now?

Fuck.
I gotta got out and promote.

I gotta promote the movies.
I gotta promote the tour.

I gotta do it
at the highest level.

If I don't do it at the highest
level, what's gonna happen?

I gotta make sure
I'm in front of the people.

Like, I started to become
a fucking computer,

and then, after that,
I settled down.

-Mm-hmm.
-And I don't --

I don't think I've reached
the place of solace

that you're talking about.

Like, hearing you talk,
like, literally you notice

I was listening
more than I was talking

because I haven't done that.
I haven't tried it.

I've heard about it a lot,
but what you're talking about

is just finding that thing
that makes you go,

"I'm good and I'm clear.

This noise don't matter."
Right?

And I think I still let
some noise in.

You've also, dude,

you've made sure your personal
life has been just that.

It's your personal life. Right?

I mean, the idea of family,
the idea of building home,

home town. Right?
"This is where I'm from.

This is where I'm true to."

That has been intentional.

That acts as an example
to people like me

who have been an open book,

who has forever been
an open book.

Right? How much does your family
appreciate you

for that level of commitment?

Like, is that something
that's noticed,

or is it not even discussed?

-Nah. It's not discussed.
I think...

it's just done out of --
you know what I mean?

It's just out of protection
where it's like,

"Yo, that's it, bro."
It's like, "Bro, this thing

over here is sacred."
You know what I mean?

So it's like,
I don't need no other...

-I love that.
-...outside...

opinions, voices, boom-boom.
No. I'm good.

-I love how you have
navigated that.

I love how when you're gone,
you're gone.

And that's something
that I'm envious of.

Right? Because, you know,
I'm the opposite.

I'm in your face.
I'm I'm work. I'm business.

I'm 100% on all the time.

The one of just the family time,
gonna step away or not now --

I don't have those off buttons

to where they don't come off
like an asshole.

Like, when I'm saying, "Yo,
I don't want to be bothered,"

it comes off like an asshole.

It's, like, what? You!

But you don't move like that,

so people more say what's up
and they understand.

-Yeah. That's true.
-And it don't hurt that you

fucking 6'20".

Like, you ain't a little dude.

They come up to me,
these motherfuckers

want to touch my neck,
fuckin' feel my face.

"What up, Kev?"
"Bitch, don't touch my face."

I had to tell
somebody that before.

Motherfucker touched
my cheek, man.

I'm, like,
"Bitch, don't touch my face."

I was by myself
so I didn't say "bitch,"

but I definitely was
a little offended

that he rubbed my fucking cheek.
-That's crazy.

-Guys, we're gonna
take a quick break.

We'll be right back with more
"Hart to Heart" after this.

**

**

-We're back.
This is still "Hart to Heart,"

and that's J. Cole.

Let's go back into you
and your loves, your hobbies.

Basketball.
-Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

-What is it, J.?
-I mean, you know what it is.

-I know what it is.

Is it the idea of,
"I want to be in the NBA"?

Is it, "Basketball is forever
my happy, will be my happy"?

What is basketball to you?

-Well, I mean, it's...

maybe a first love.
You know?

I mean, I never took it
as serious as I took music.

Like, I didn't --
I did at one point,

but I took music first.
I did the work in music first.

I did the work
in basketball too late.

I didn't know.
I didn't have anybody telling me

when was a kid,
"Bro, you're trash.

You should probably work
a little harder."

I didn't know I was trash.
That was the problem

with basketball.
But I did love it so much.

-You see my high school tape?
I didn't know either

till they showed that tape.
-Oh, I did see that!

-Did you see
my high school tape?

-Yo! That was crazy!

-Yeah, I thought
I was good until --

-They showed the lowlights,
bro.

-Ain't that a bitch?
-Yeah. It was crazy.

-Put out all my fuckin'
low points.

Didn't put a jump shot
in there or nothin'.

-I knew you could hoop, though.
-Not according to that video.

-I know, I know.
-Thanks, Coach Jones,

son of a bitch.
I ain't never seen a more

hurtful compilation
in my goddamn life.

Been bad, real bad.

But you did --
late bloomer you may have been,

but at some point in time you
had to put a commitment into it

for you to go and pursue it.

-Basically, I think
I was always a --

like, I was always highly
competitive with it and I was --

I had potential.

I was good, but I was like
untapped potential.

And I always --
the minute I signed my deal,

I promise you --
this is how crazy I am --

I'm like, the minute
I signed my deal, I was 24.

I was doing the math
in my mind, like, all right.

"If I could pop off in the next
two years, I'll still be 26.

Then I could probably
really start training,

go play overseas."
I was already trying to see

how I could make my way
back into

a professional
basketball space, like --

and never had any reason
to really think that.

But, in my heart,
I always thought, like, yo.

If I could see myself

being one of those dudes
that went to a school,

walked on, rode the bench
for two, three years,

but his senior year
he got good enough to,

like, get the coach's trust
and get a little bit of clout,

took it overseas --
boom, boom, boom.

So I was doing the math.
All of that to say,

basketball for me,
"A," is just a love.

I play it, like,
just regardless, consistently.

But it's also a vessel
for growth and getting better.

I love being able to put in work

and see the results.
You know what I mean?

I love being able to --

like, I love knowing that,
right now, my game

is miles beyond
what it was four years ago,

because I've been
really training.

I love to feel the growth,
and I love my --

I had to restructure
my whole jump shot.

So one is that.

And then, three,
it is also a place

where I could allow myself
to set an un--

super unrealistic goal
in everybody else's eyes,

and maybe even in my eyes
at some point,

but be, like, I don't care.

I want to do this.
You know what I mean?

So it's, like, I need --

I thrive off of missions.
You know what I mean?

I thrive off of, like --

-I mean, that's
an accomplishment, though.

-For sure.
-That's a major accomplishment.

They don't let me play.
Yeah. They don't let me play.

-Yeah, they do, bro.
Come on, man.

-No, no. I don't --
I don't play.

-If you come and ask,
they gonna let you play.

-Yeah. I don't --
I'm being honest with you.

It ain't that.
I played one pickup game

and I felt
they were too hard on me.

-They were trying
to prove a point?

-Well, just little shit
was happening.

It was like, "Kev, you gotta
fight through that pick."

And I was like, "Bitch,
you don't think I'm trying?

You don't think
I tried to do that?"

You know, they throw me
a jump shot. I'm open.

I miss.
"Kev, you gotta hit that."

So you think
I missed on purpose?

It was a bunch of that shit
where

you think
I'm out here fucking up...

-On purpose.
-...on purpose.

You don't think
I'm giving it my all?

I'm taking these
sneaks off right now.

I ain't been back since.
Now, I work out.

I do the workouts with them.

That's where I shine there.

We could do workouts all day,
but actually

getting on the court
and playing the game again?

-Yeah.
-I'm done with that.

I don't want to do that.
-Really?

-Yeah. No, no.
-I don't believe that, bro.

-No, my fear is getting hurt.
-Okay. There we go.

I feel that.
-My fear is getting hurt.

-It ain't worth it.
That shit sit you down

for too long.
-Yeah. Not like that.

It's too much. It's too much.

Like, you really into it.
I don't have that.

I don't have that for somebody
to set a pick on me

and not tell me it's coming.

Like, I don't -- and, "Oh, Kev.
Yo, you gotta look up."

No, bitch,
just don't do that to me.

Like, I'm not there.
Or foul me hard.

Like, I'm not -- I quit.
-It ain't that serious.

-That's why I stopped boxing.

I was boxing for a minute.
-Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

-I was really boxing
for a minute.

-Yeah. That's right.
-Motherfucker tapped me.

Tapped me a couple of times.
Lights changed in that bitch.

I said, "Never again."
-Yeah.

-You know who else
I sparred with

that tapped me up a little bit?
Usher. Man, Usher was hard.

-Really?
-Usher got hands.

Usher got fuckin' hands.
You fuck with Usher if you want.

People out there,
I'm telling you right now,

fuck with Usher if you want.
Usher got hands.

-That's crazy.
-And he dance.

All that little shit --
all that?

Yeah, all this shit here,
you know,

he think there's music playing.

Usher got fuckin' hands.
-Hits hard.

-But Usher made me better,
though.

Me and Usher were just
fuckin' around in Atlanta

and he helped me out, but I was
taking it serious for a minute.

That was my basketball.

Because I felt like
you can always get better.

And I did get good.
I just stopped sparring.

-I respect that.
-I didn't want to spar anymore.

Um, guys, we're gonna take
a quick break.

We'll be back with more
"Hart to Heart" and J. Cole,

a.k.a. Cole World, after this.

**

**

-Welcome back
to "Hart to Heart."

This is still J. Cole,

and the conversation
is getting better.

Let's talk about
the artists today.

Right? A lot of artists are out.

New ones that are part of
our generation that have grown.

What is your mindset
with the state of rap now?

-I think it's fire.

It's a whole different
ball game.

You know what I mean?
Like, a whole different crop

of young superstars and styles.

You know what I mean?

I think, to me, the --

I've been feeling like this for,
like, maybe a year or two.

It's, like, I hate to say it,
almost,

'cause it sound like --
almost like pandering.

But I really do think,
like, man,

there's a lot of
fire female rappers.

And it's, like, they --
I feel like they doing --

-Doesn't sound like pandering.
It's the truth.

-Yeah, I feel like they doing
some of the most exciting --

commercially, they're doing
some of the most exciting --

they're giving us
a lot of fire moments.

You know what I mean?
I feel like that's something

that wasn't around when we --
-The volume was never --

-It was never like that.
You always had one --

a Lil' Kim...
-Eve, Lil' Kim, Foxy.

-But there was always one --
there can never be more

than one, almost, it felt like.
Now it's, like, bro,

we're gettin' moments
and moments and moments.

I think that's hard.

-I just love to hear
you say that, too.

I mean, you know, I know
that there's a conversation,

of course, attached to female
rappers, from female rappers,

of just, like,
wanting the support from many.

And there's a thing of, like,
"Well, you know, we are saying

the same things that men saying.
We don't want the feedback or --

you know, to receive backlash

given that
we're embracing the craft."

So to hear you embrace
what they're doing,

I know, probably means
the world to them.

And, honestly, just to be
current and see that --

like, that's something that,
not being in the business,

that I see.
What about male?

Where you at with
the males that are out there?

-Hard.
-It's fuckin' a good time.

-Mm-hmm.
-And are you in --

I guess you'd say,
are you in a space

where you have acted as a voice,
mentoring?

Are you available?
Not available?

-I'm available.
Like, I made the decision,

like, maybe -- I don't know.

I don't know how long ago
it was now,

but it was some years ago
where I was, like --

'cause when I came in,
I was very much, like...

I was so competitive,
it was, like,

everything was close quarter.
I'm, like,

we're not friends, so it's,
like, you know what I mean?

I'm not gonna sit here
and fake it, boom-boom.

I was very much on my own,

trying to get to where
I was trying to go.

And I realized --
I was, like, "Oh."

I turn around.
I was, like, "Oh, wait!"

Like, because I started
thinking about the end.

I started thinking about a day
when it's, like, bruh,

like I love doing this now,
but I don't know if I want to --

I don't know if I want
to be doing this forever.

You know what I mean?
So the thought

of an ending started
coming in my mind.

So then the thought was, yo,

if you were to end and this was
to be your last album,

this would be your last
boom-boom, like,

who did you work with?

Who did you form a bond with?

Who did you have
a lasting memory with?

And that, like,
kind of woke me up

where it was, like, bro,
like, you been too closed off.

So I purposely just started
opening myself up

to when I meet somebody,

you could have just came out,
boom-boom,

I meet with you,
we have a good conversation,

"Bro, take my line."
Boom, boom.

"Hit me."

So it's, like,
I've been that person

way more
over the past few years.

"Yo, take my line.
Hit me. Reach out." Boom, boom.

So I've had great moments
with artists.

-And up-and-coming.
I mean, it was dope --

there was something --
I think it's the small things

that become the biggest, right,

that show that you're in tune,
more importantly,

with understanding the hustle,
understanding

what an opportunity
looks and feels like.

And sometimes being a part
of that springboard,

launch pad, or whatever,
speaks more volume

than the money
or financial backing.

It's the effort of support.

It's the idea being present
with the now.

And what have you learned
business-wise,

based off of where you were
and where you now are?

-I think I was doing this
pretty early on.

I'm not like a business --
I'm not gonna lie.

Like, I don't view myself as,
like, a business-savvy person,

a businessman, necessarily.

I think I would be capable

if I had more time to,
like, just focus on that

or just if I cared to.
You know what I mean?

But I think the thing
that I did

that worked out for me best
was I just stayed patient

and I never took the --

you know, they dangle the carrot
in front of your face.

You know what I mean?
Or whatever the thing is.

Like, I never took the --

-Never went after
the shiny object.

-Exactly. Meaning, like,
I just always felt like --

I was always hesitant to do
what was being offered.

You know what I mean?
Although it might --

you know, for instance,
I think, in rap --

or maybe it's music, period --

but, like, you have
a successful album,

they want to renegotiate
right away.

And the artist is, like,
"Yeah, I'll do that,"

'cause you're gonna
get another million.

Boom, boom.
They want to renegotiate,

but it's, like,
they're gonna tack on

how many albums for that.

So it's, like --
I was, like, oh,

I got these successful albums,
I'm gonna chill.

I'm not gonna just renegotiate.
I'm good on that. Boom, boom.

And the longer I waited,

the better my leverage played
out for me when it came time.

You know?
'Cause, like, now --

and I still apply
that to this day.

I'm, like, I'm very slow
to do those types of deals

'cause I'm, like,
"Yo, I don't know yet.

Let me feel this out."
You know what I mean?

Let me take a little more time.
And the more time you take,

the more the truth
starts to show itself.

You know what I mean?
It's, like, so

I can't really sit here
like some mogul

and give business advice

'cause I don't think I run,
like, the best business.

I'm grateful to have
great people around me,

where it's like, my money good.
Boom, boom.

I mean, I'm smart with my money.
You know what I mean?

Like, I always --
and that just comes from fear.

It's like, I don't never,
ever want to be broke again.

So I'm slow to, like --

-Frugal? Or just mindful?
Which one?

-What's the difference?
-Well, frugal means

you don't spend shit
'cause you're a cheap ass.

Mindful means,
yeah, I'll splurge.

I'll treat myself.
There's things that I do.

-No, no. Yeah.
I would definitely say mindful

because I'll --
if it's the right thing,

if it's a vacation,
you know what I mean,

family vacation --
boom, boom -- I'm gonna spend.

You know what I mean?
If it's a --

no, I'm not afraid to spend,

but I'm mindful,
where it's, like --

yeah, I think mindful
is the word.

You know what I mean?
And it helps that it's like

I don't -- I'm not --
I don't really --

like, I'm a hard person to get
a gift for because I don't --

it's not like I have everything.

"I got every car."
Boom, boom.

It's, like, if you got me a car,
I would be, like,

"Oh, man, he got me a car."
You know what I mean?

Like, "He don't know
I don't care about cars."

-Don't really care about cars.
-Yeah! Like, oh, man.

You know what I mean?
Like, "Oh, you got me a watch.

Like, damn, this is an expensive
watch. I appreciate it."

-Just gonna put it up.
-Yeah.

In my heart, I'm like, "Bro."

So it helps that
I don't really --

That allows me
to go a little harder over here.

You know what I mean?
-Yeah. I remember I caught you

with the socks.
You just had the --

remember you had
the socks out of the pack.

And I was like, "J., where --
there they go.

Goddamn. Goddamn."
-He was on me.

You know, I think you all the --
-"Goddamn."

-I wear these socks -- these,
like, yellow-toe socks, bruh.

I just had to take them off
to keep it real, bro.

Like, we was shooting a video.

Kevin seen my socks,
and he was like --

I remember you was like,

"You know there's better socks,
right?"

-I remember I had assumed --

I looked at you because I was,
like, "You know that..."

-You know there's a higher
level of socks.

-"...you can get a better
quality sock than that."

Like, I know
where that sock is from.

You were like, "I like these."
You just kept --

I remember you
kept doing this --

"I like these."

-[ Laughs ]
-I was like...

"Just so I know, those are
the ones that are six in a pack,

right?"
You was like, "Think so."

-Yeah.
-What do you spend it on?

What's a splurge?
Okay. A vacation? What is the --

-That's probably my highest.
-Is that it?

-Ah...yeah.
-Probably got, like,

a stupid video game setup
or some shit like that.

-No, no, no.
But I'm about to get that.

I just got into the VR --
the VR joints.

-I can see. I can see...
-Whoo! I'm gonna set that up.

-...go over to your house,
you got a room.

"Kev, put these on."
It's like a suit. What else?

There's gotta be something.
What's the thing?

-Um...

Like, on a -- I mean,
on a consistent basis?

Or, like, I built
a studio in the crib,

but that was --
you know what I mean?

-That's good.
-I've got a gym at the crib.

-That's good. All right.

So those are, like,
personal-growth spaces

in both of them,
things like that.

You're investing in the things

where you can get
a return out of.

The studio in the house is dope.

It's like, whenever I want
to go down, I can go down.

I'm in the comfort of my home.

-Yeah.
-Gym in the house --

I can go work out
whenever I want.

-A basketball court.

-A basketball court! Okay.
That's dope.

-Where I can just hoop anytime.
-It's your love.

-I ain't gotta drive
to the Lifetime Fitness.

I ain't gotta, boom-boom,
ask somebody for a court.

Exactly.
-Okay. That makes sense.

-Then vacations.
I can't really sit here and --

-I like that. That makes sense.
For the space of a --

-I wish I had
something for you, though.

I wish I had something dope.

-I like that you don't, though.

I like that you are you.
-Sure.

-I'm the jackass with
the stupid hobbies

and the things like that
that I've got into.

Let's stop right here
for a second.

We'll be right back
with more "Hart to Heart"

and J. Cole after this.

**

**

-Welcome back.

This is "Hart to Heart"
and I'm Kevin Hart.

That's J. Cole.

Do you want to do anything else
at this point in your life?

I mean, music has provided you
with such an opportunity,

such a door to success.

Is there anything else
that J. Cole wants to do?

-Yeah. I mean,
I have things in my mind

that it's, like, you know,
I would like to get to that.

And that's why -- but I can't
do it without putting music

all the way down first,
which is, like,

I feel like I've got some
unchecked boxes -- boom, boom.

But the minute
I check these boxes,

then it's, like, yes,
I can get to this.

And film, in some space,
is included in that.

Not acting, necessarily, 'cause

I just never felt like
that was me,

although what I do love
about acting

and what has made me consider it
is how,

similar to basketball
or similar to golf or whatever,

it's, like, yo, you're gonna --

you might have a little bit
of natural knack for it,

but you're gonna be --

you're gonna start here,
very low.

And only through practice
and discipline

and work will you get here.

And that interests me about
acting, like, the craft of it.

But I never necessarily
saw myself as that.

But the film world,
in general, I love.

I love the film space.
I love behind the camera.

I love the editing room.
You know what I mean?

-By the way, I saw that
when we did the video.

Like, you --
-Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

-And you were directing
and you were very much in tune

with the shots, what you wanted,
how we want it to look.

I mean, that's the artistry.
Like, as an artist --

and what you'll find,
even in the space of art, like,

when you just start to think
about artistry,

people's vision,
how the vision came to life,

what they want people to take
with them from the vision,

what it means, all of that shit
start to play into a major part.

So I can definitely see it.
I got one more big one for you.

A collab that you
have not done yet,

that you need to do
before it's all said and done.

-Nobody.
I'm gonna tell you the truth.

I've never,
and I still don't to this day,

look at stuff like that.

"Man, I always wanted to get
a song with such and such,

and I never did."
Like, it just --

Even in the past,
I remember it was like a J. --

a J. feature, and --

and the energy
of that was coming --

I felt like it was --
I felt people wanted that.

I felt my friends wanted that --
boom, boom.

But when I actually bust down,
like, who I am as a person,

I love to keep my heroes
over there.

-Mm-hmm.
-I don't need to come in --

I don't need to get
the song with you.

I just need to enjoy
what you did for me

and what you do for me
over there.

I don't need -- like, there's
no validating thing

that's gonna be, like,
"Ah, I got a song with such."

Nah. I wanna do what I'm doing.
Boom, boom.

So it's like,
I'm open for whatever.

You know what I mean?
But at the same time,

I'm never --
like, I don't have a list of...

-Of people that you
have to work with

before it's all said and done.
-Nah. Nope.

-To make it, this is the way
that I know that what I did...

-Yep.
-...was the dopest shit ever.

'Cause look who came and fucked
with me along the way.

I don't need that.
-Yep.

-That's not what
I'm looking for.

When you say the word "heroes,"
who acts

as some of those heroes?
-Oh, man.

I got a list of people
that are why I'm here.

They don't even know it.
You know what I mean?

And they -- but they are,

you know, like the north stars
that I was following.

So it's like, obviously there
was Pac when I was --

forever,
but one of the earliest ones,

Jay, Nas, Eminem, Andre 3000...
-Wow!

-...Lil Wayne.
-Mm-hmm.

-You know, and there's --
and these are, like,

the big bullets,
but then you also got, like --

I had a Royce da 5'9 moment.
You know what I mean?

I had Canibus moments. I had...

-Wow!
-...boom-boom moments.

But in terms of, like,
the people

that really fuel in terms of,
like, my ambition and showing me

what's possible, like,
the first names I named, like,

those were the highest ones.

So it's, like, you know,

these were the people
that, like, yo,

I'm trying to get up there.
You know what I mean?

And, like, in terms of skill,
in terms of success,

all of that,
like, they fueled it.

-I want to say this, man,
before we wrap up.

And, like I told you,
it's about flowers for me.

It's about taking the time
to make sure that the people

that I have the opportunity
to sit across from understood

not only just what I personally
felt about them --

their success,
their now, their why.

It's big for other people
to see people in our position

embrace one another.
Right?

Dude, I think it's dope as fuck

that I'm a part
of your generation.

I think it's dope as fuck that
my journey aligns with yours

and that we're able to say
we started from back here

and that we now got to here.
-Mm-hmm.

-And then being here,
we're discussing it.

Like, we're having
open dialogue about it.

I love that you can
stand up here

and say, "I had to find myself,
re-create myself, recalibrate,

make changes, ultimately to make
the best decisions for me

to be the best person I am.

And I shut this off,
shut that off."

Like, those words
that you're saying,

people will hear,
people will hold on to,

and some people do need
to hear that shit.

Some people do need to know
that those decisions

are extremely important
and impactful to your future,

especially when you're trying
to get to a certain place.

Making that right or left
determines

if you'll get there or not.

And you've got to be a hell
of a strong-minded individual

to make the decision to do so,
to self-check yourself.

And you've not only done that,

you've done it
in a major way, man.

I'm proud of you, brother.
-Thank you, brother.

-I love you genuine --
like, genuinely.

-Thank you, brother,
-Love, appreciate, admire you

for the person that you are.

I hope you guys
make the right decision,

and that's to really,
truly listen

to a lot of the things
that were said.

A lot of gems
were dropped today.

That's what the show's about.

Ladies and gentlemen,
the legend, J. Cole.

-My boy. Thank you, bro.
-Look, how good is this?

-Ooh-wee!

-Love you, man.
-Thank you, brother.

You're a fucking pro, man.
Do we sit or do we stand?

-No, that's it. It's over.
Thanks for coming.

Let's get you the fuck
up out of here.

[ Speaks indistinctly ]

**

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