Original subtitles

welcome to the strictly Anonymous

podcasts conversations with online

strangers we place ads online Craigslist

is definitely the gift that keeps on

the Temptation is just too much does

your friend know that you're banging her

motto of the show let your Greek flag

fly probably the only good advice I'll

ever give you is to re-hide your whips

is your host Kathy hi welcome to the

strictly Anonymous podcast with Kathy if

you haven't followed the strictly

Anonymous podcast yet on Instagram or

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everyone's voices we change everybody's

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secret life that you want to talk about

while remaining Anonymous you could be

on my show but you could also be on my

show if you're you if you're out and

proud and you live an interesting

alternative lifestyle that you want to

talk about like my guest today and you

want to be on the show as yourself which

is always great you could do that as

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never any questions asked I'm totally

cool with that and I understand so

listen I want to get right to my guest

today because she's fascinating her name

is Kenya K Stevens she's the CEO of

progressive love Academy and Kenya has

been into polyamory as for years way

before anybody even knew what Paulie was

Kenya and her husband were talking about

it eventually they decided to open up

their marriage she currently has two

husbands who also have other partners

she has plenty of other partners besides

her husband she talks about her whole

journey like when she started to have

those conversations with her husband how

they decided to move forward with it how

it worked in the beginning how they set

it up why they believe rules are for

fools that was something I had to write

down because I was like I love that

saying she believes rules are for fools

and she's here to tell you why she now

started like I said that Progressive

love Academy where she teaches other

couples how to be in successful

polyamorous relationships now when you

hear her story you'll understand why she

is the one to teach that she's been on

TV she's been out and proud with her

husband talking about polyamory uh

forever and like I said now she's set up

the progressive love Academy she has a

course called how to get your partner

into polyamory there will be a link to

it in the description but on this

episode what you're going to hear is her

whole back story which is super

interesting because her and her husband

were not just open to polyamory they did

Tantra they were just like she said they

were always like scientists learning and

they really were they were always ahead

of their time always learning about

different things it was not easy she's

she says that it's not an easy thing to

do but they've been doing it for a long

time she believes in divorce proof

marriages I mean this is not something

that broke up her marriage her marriage

she doesn't believe in divorcing either

which is another whole fascinating topic

we touched a little bit upon it in this

episode but I'm gonna have her back on

to talk about that even more because she

believes in that too her beliefs are

super interesting I love her Progressive

ways I buy into everything she [\xa0__\xa0]

says I think you know 100 years from now

everyone should be living her life I

believe in it and I love her story it's

super interesting she's wonderful she's

uh so I'm going to be right back on with

Kenya K Stevens Progressive love Academy

I'll put all of her links to everything

hi Kanya Kenya K Stevens hi Kathy

welcome to the strictly Anonymous

podcast how are you today oh Kathy

Kathy K and I'm Kenya K oh yeah you're

how are you I feel great it's lovely to

be here yeah well listen Kenya I mean

while we were like waiting to start

taping you were like asking one of your

husbands to do some stuff for you and I

mean you must be doing great because you

have not one husband but two husbands

correct yes yes and we are not Anonymous

we are on National Television we've been

poly for 17 years so I am very very

excited to have this discussion not

anonymously yeah I love that because I

gotta tell you you guys are very ahead

of the time okay considering that you

guys were Paulie 17 years ago that's

pretty major because even I've been

doing my show for about eight years now

eight or nine years I think and in the

beginning it was like years before I

heard from a polyamorous couple and

nowadays I hear from a lot more people

that are trying out polyamory but in the

beginning like nobody was doing it so

you guys are really like ahead of your

well it's the work that we did that

pushed it to the Forefront we've been on

11 national television shows we have 12

books out about polyamory and

relationships I mean we have been

pushing the Mark I remember my brother

who plays for the NFL was like Kenya

you're so smart don't talk about

polyamory in public just talk about love

coaching I'm like no we're polyamorous I

don't care who's not talking about it I

don't care if the celebrities want to

stay away from it even though they're

polyamorous as hell I don't care we're

going to do it and that's what we've

done yeah I mean listen it always takes

people like you to really push things

forward right like those really bold

people that are like I don't [\xa0__\xa0]

care I'm gonna be me and you're the

person that helps all these other people

coming up that want to do it right

absolutely we've helped thousands of

couples transition to polyamory but not

without going through the [\xa0__\xa0] ourselves

right well you have you are the CEO of

the progressive love Academy so you do

teach other couples how to have become

polyamorous but let's start with your

story like how did you wind up being out

oh my goodness well I've been married

for 30 years to date but I got married

when I was 21. so I was fairly young for

a genexor to get married and my husband

and I had a really candid conversation

before we got married he said to me you

know what I think someday I might be the

type to want to have several wives

said okay well that's cool you know okay

I didn't have any other thought about it

I thought okay yeah you're young at 21.

yeah yeah you're like I think if you

told a 37 year old that she might be a

little bit more horrified but 21 I think

you're still more open-minded I don't

know because that's a lot to take in

right being 21 years old but he's also

an MBA student I'm an undergrad he's

getting his graduate degree he's so

responsible so respectful so everything

else that I wanted in a husband I just

said okay I didn't even think it would

ever come to pass right so at year four

of our marriage I was pregnant with baby

number two and I was at a community

event and I was painting a portrait on

the wall with another man from the

community and we hugged each other good

and throughout my entire body I felt the

orgasm just rolling from my crown down

to my feet and I said oh my God I just I

had a a spontaneous orgasm have that

that's whatever happened to you no I'm

like super jealous I thought squirting

was something that I needed to do I get

jealous whenever someone says they can

squirt now I know now that now I know

that there's people out there that could

spontaneously orgasm I'm like now I want

to do that too come on oh yes it was so

good and I went immediately home and I

was just flabbergasted I didn't know

what to do I had a dream about this man

I started dreaming about him having wow

like you know very sexual dreams and So

eventually I told my husband it wasn't

even a few weeks before I told him I

said look this is what happened because

I felt innocent I didn't have sex with

him I didn't try to convince him to go

on a date with me I didn't even talk to

him anymore but I kept having these

dreams so I told my husband that this is

what's happening my husband ran directly

to our marriage counselors and told them

that this is what was happening our

marriage counselors at the time said

you are in a monogamous relationship

this is not acceptable this is not what

you're supposed to do as if I was doing

something at last I'll check I do not

control my dreams so yeah yeah anyways I

felt really shamed by them by my

marriage counselors at that time and I

felt like that was just something

naturally occurring I wasn't a cheater I

didn't have a work husband it's like I

didn't even work I was a stay-at-home

mom so I didn't understand why I was

being shamed So eventually the dreams

went away after several years they went

away still nothing but let me just point

out that you are you like went to school

to be a child psychologist so is that

why you had like marriage counselors and

stuff going on in your relationship

because that's like the world that you

that is the world that I lived in and

even my parents had marriage counselors

raised to know that we need we need

support we are not Island yeah that's

important huh okay go on it's not like

you were having problems I mean you just

this is how you knew that this the best

way to set yourself up for Success right

we were not having marriage problems

yeah it was just we knew and we thought

that was why because we had counselors

we had coaches we and this is in the 90s

but either way time went on and 12 years

down now the down the line my husband

comes home from work and tells me hey do

you remember that experience you had

with hugging the guy and you had this

feeling I feel like I'm falling in love

with one of my co-workers in the same

we didn't have the marriage counselors

anymore and we were you know moving into

our own sort of philosophy on marriage

we really were we were really becoming

very Freedom based in our marriage and I

so I said to him I want to meet her I

want to meet this woman so you don't

have but that at that initial time

though there's no jealousy or anything

that comes up is that because you were

like having conversations about being

okay it didn't sound like you're angry

about it that's so funny okay you know I

was not angry jealousy is not anger

right okay jealousy yeah jealousy means

I want something at a year 12 in your

marriage you want the attention yeah

that you know my husband's coming home

telling me he's in love when's the last

time he told me that he was in love with

me yeah interesting okay no so uh-uh and

I'm at home with kids you travel in the

world having a good old time no

so when he told me that I did say I

wanted to meet her and I did meet her we

all went out to dinner and he reminded

me that before we got married he said he

may want to take several wives he may

want to explore polygyny so we went out

and I saw the young woman now she was

very different from me I'm loud I'm

glamorous I'm cute I'm boisterous I'm

brave this girl she didn't know what

tofu was she she asked my husband what

and I immediately recognized that this

was a different energetic from me

interesting this was something he might

need something he might value so it was

less threatening because it wasn't like

someone replacing you it was something

it was something totally different

that's what I realized and it it felt

less threatening but I was still mad as

hell because when I had this experience

it was he allowed our counselors to shut

us down I couldn't pursue it yeah yeah

yeah so needless to say he didn't pursue

that young woman because I was just not

having it you know we I said we're going

to talk about this if you're going to be

open I'm going to be open I'm from

Detroit I'm not going I'm not from

somewhere where they do polygyny if

you're going to be open I want to be

open now this was 2005. yeah so not a

lot of people were open there were no

poly groups there were no poly books

there was the ethical [\xa0__\xa0] yeah right

that really had nothing to do with an

egalitarian ethical non-monogamous thing

so you know we talked about it for two

years that's what we did Cassie we

talked about it because when I said I

wanted to be open as well he said no

but he wanted to still be like was he

yeah he was saying this is something men

do right I told you this and he kept

falling back I told you this before

marriage this is what men do this is

I understand what you're saying and I

don't believe that this is just

something that men do first of all being

married to you 12 years I see that my

sex drive is greater than yours now

maybe that's just you and I but most of

the men I've been with I've wanted sex

more than them have you experienced that

Kathy yeah a lot of times I've talked

about on my show most got my boyfriend's

they'd just be like oh Kathy please like

enough like you know maybe I have a lot

of testosterone I don't know but some

women just roll that way it's not always

the match and it doesn't necessarily

mean it's always the guy that's more

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that's what we're taught though we're

taught that woman is the object of sex

and man is a subject right because he

wants it and he desires it he but I've

had greater desire and and beyond that

let's not even talk about me but it's

about science like there's seven to

eight thousand nerve endings on a

woman's genitalia I've heard that

they're less far less on the man's

genitalia especially after he's

so how do we get the philosophy or the

understanding that men is somehow sexist

for men or men want more sex or men want

variety and women don't this is a

standard narrative that does not add up

when you look at individual women and

so needless to say I just we had this

conversation that you and I are having

over two years time we we had the

conversation of why not and what is

wrong with women having multiple

partners and what what would it do to

your ego and eventually he got to the

point because we were studying Tantra

and his Tantra Masters were helping him

understand the feminine and how the

feminine should be free right and you

know he got to an understanding that you

know what maybe I don't want you to do

it because your body and what you do

with it is protecting my masculinity and

and and I'm standing on you being

monogamous to me to count toward my

level of masculinity and that's not fair

right interesting and pretty brave of

him to go there and understand it or

very self-aware for him to see that yes

I just thought it was brilliant it made

me fall so deep in love with him even

deeper you know and yeah you said we

were doing Tantra we were doing yoga we

were doing meditation we're we're very

metaphysical we've been in a spiritual

Community we you know I had three home

births I had orgasmic births yeah well

that's why you could do that orgasm with

so that is where we ended out and when

he said that and owned that okay because

that takes ownership brilliant

so he owned that and that's when we

moved into constructing our first sort

of Constitution or principles as to how

we would create our freedom-based

so how did that go because and like

what's the difference between being

polyamorous or being in an ethical

non-monogamous relationship or do you

oh don't ask me I don't see those as

non-monogamy polyamory or open relating

as any different right but a lot of

people have distinguished some

differences that they see I don't I

don't know what those are for me this is

what I would tell you that I would think

the difference is but I you know and

you're gonna explain to me how it's

different or maybe you started out one

way and then it progressed but like I

know a lot of couples they open their

marriage uh strictly because they want

to have sex with other people but

they're their primary relationship

there's no emotional relationships being

had outside of that primary relationship

and then I talk to the other people who

are polyamorous and it's not they're not

just having sex with other people but

they're falling in love with other

people you know they have intimate

connections you know everyone said it

sets it up differently I mean you have

two husbands you really are polyamorous

you're in love with two people and then

they also have Partners correct

oh yes my husbands have partners and I

have more Partners Beyond just my

husband's right so yeah the polyamory so

what are you defining that as polyamory

in my view means many loves that means

it's non-gender specific meaning the a

person with a penis or a person with a

vagina can both have many loves yeah

so that's how I think of polyamory yeah

so when you though when you're like

talking to your husband in those

beginning stages do you think it's just

about having orgasms with different

people and just connecting that way and

then it progressed to like let's have

feelings or did you always know that it

was going to be like let's open this up

to be able to love whoever we want

oh we always knew it was going to be

about love because the concept of just

having sex with somebody that's not that

wasn't appealing to me right I mean

that's the more like swinging yeah yeah

we never went through a swinging phase

not that swingers are bad I love you

anybody for any of their choices but we

never did swinging we knew that we would

be formulating committed Partnerships

outside of our marriage right and I

think that that's what polyamory is it's

just it you know it goes beyond just a

sexual kind of hook up outside of your

marriage right it's more than absolutely

yeah so because I have Partners who I'm

not sexual with at all but I still

consider them my partners yeah because

maybe I like to go skiing neither of my

husbands like to go skiing well I like

to go skiing with him and cuddle by the

fire and maybe watch him make love with

his wife or you know I it's it's not

about whether you're having sex or not

with this person as to whether or not

you can formulate a relationship yeah

yeah but which I think is actually

scarier like how did you guys decide to

proceed forward once you decided to do

it I mean because I would think that

would be scary that you know if somebody

sort of copped feelings for somebody

else it would put your own relationship

in jeopardy or were you guys just so

solid because you'd been together for so

long and talking about it that you were

no I think we were solid because we

built our constitution first yes so

before we went into actual having sexual

partners emotional relationships we

created our constitution first of all we

decided there were four steps to open

love second of all we decided that we

have five governing principles for our

marriage and that sort of cemented us

into an understanding that we could

share with these other partners and say

hey this is what we're about I'm married

of course this is how we conduct our

marriage what do you think about that so

that's my first conversations with any

I think it would be more scary if I were

just okay we're gonna be open now go

ahead like we gonna try Paulie we never

tried Polly Kathy we wrote about

polyamory we broke down the scientific a

psychological principles metaphysical

principles of polyamory we we tested our

theories and the ones that needed a

scientists yeah polyamory yeah that's

why you guys teach it now because you

didn't just decide to open up and go out

there because I think that's and that's

why people like that's why you have this

Progressive love Academy because you

could teach other people how to do it

the right way right because I think the

the wrong way to do it is to just do it

and not know these things that you

figured out because you were like I said

ahead of your time it's obvious that you

guys were always digging deep and you

had those kind of scientific Minds right

other people don't have time for that

versus two years for us you know really

17 years of of exploring and

experimenting and writing we're just now

getting to the point where okay we're

yeah that's amazing so you decide you're

both going to be you're going to open up

your marriage you're going to be

polyamorous and like how does that How

does it go like who found the first

partner well he told me that I should go

first because he was really both of us

want part of our philosophy now is that

the least interested person the most

fearful person should go first oh

interesting it shouldn't be the person

who's like yeah let's be Paulie man hey

let's get out there it should be the one

who's like I don't know about this this

is going to because I was just so afraid

Kathy I was like is he gonna still

respect me is my husband gonna still

love me is he still going to take care

of me is he gonna like completely lose

his [\xa0__\xa0] and just not be divorced me I

was terrified because I'm never gonna be

a single mother like that was never

that's why I got married at 21 because I

knew I want to have sex sex equal babies

I'm gonna be with my man forever and I

got my wish yeah but he let me go first

he said I remember it just like it was

yesterday I was headed to a conference

and I knew that the Universe was leading

me down this path me and my girlfriends

go to a weekend conference so of course

so I'm riding in the car with a guy I

met and I remember calling my husband

because the guy got out to get gas and I

called my husband I said I met someone

what should I do he said you should get

off the phone with me and talk to him

but what ended up happening as that was

one of my first Partners one of my first

boyfriends outside of marriage and

immediately I wanted him to come home

and meet my husband you know he was West

Coast we were East Coast so we were

flying by Coastal for a while and he did

meet my husband and you know it went

great but you know my husband had a hard

time he did but he didn't leave me what

people don't understand about polyamory

is you gonna have a hard time right

you're gonna have a hell of a time you

see what I'm saying because you're

literally rewiring your core beliefs

yeah and they're not just I mean these

are like in you without you even

realizing right I mean it's just how we

grow up what we believe in what's taught

to us and without even realizing it yes

yeah yeah yes so it's not like oh yeah

we just gonna try this we went through

hell so my husband I called home later

than that evening and my children

answered the phone now my children are

babies they're like three five and seven

I say where's Daddy they said we don't

know I said go find him he's in the

basement he's in the now my husband

doesn't drink he wouldn't even let me

drink on our honeymoon okay he's down in

the basement with a bottle of gin and a

and just going through his own process

yeah interesting and he was the one that

and I I just admired his bravery but I

also wanted to be there in this time of

need so I supported him a little bit but

he said don't worry about me continue

doing what you're doing I have to go

through this process of release yeah

so that's happened I couldn't have sex

now I could not have sex I I didn't have

sex with this guy for a while in our

relationship because it was just enough

to be dating somebody else you know

yeah that's interesting oh it was crazy

so finally after we met my husband I

would allow myself to have sex with him

that was great he was also engaged which

I didn't know about and my husband ended

up liking his partner who was engaged

because this is the first time now he

has somebody correct this is the first

time my husband has somebody in my

process was much harder than my

husband's process he's more level-headed

than me right you know I'm hard-headed

so I just had big problems with her big

problems with them they were together in

our marital bed how dare you guys sleep

together in our marriage so bad I'm

never sleeping in that bed again you

know and how foolish was that this is my

this is his marital body that I mean

what difference does it make where they

sleep together so these are the types of

transitioning you do want to set up oh

rules we had all these rules later we

found that rules are for fools they

don't work and the only thing that saved

rules are for fools I gotta write that

well later our protocols and our

principles saved us more than any rule

really in what sense like what's the

difference like what do you mean when

you say that be a little bit more

absolutely so with our clients we say

that rules are systems that you set up

for somebody else to adhere to right

because yo ego wants them to adhere to

it you know it's like some form of

control right it's like you yeah it's a

mild form of control that we think we're

entitled to if we are in a relationship

not true you know rules are meant to be

broken so protocols the way we help our

clients design protocols is that these

are principles that you set up for

yourself so that you can let other

people know hey these are my protocols

this is how I go about safe sex for

instance or this is how I go about

introducing new partners this is how I

do it and so that they can understand

your protocols they can't set a rule for

you you can't set a rule for them right

but if you don't like their protocols

you all can discuss them and you can

understand them more deeply but I can't

set a rule for a grown man and a grown

man can't set a rule for me a grown

woman and you mean that even talking

about your husband right it's not just

the other person that you're getting

involved in is this also within the

couple themselves rules are for fools

absolutely I would never set up a rule

it's not my place and he knows it's not

his place to set up a room for me first

of all we trust each other yeah so we

work on trust more than trying to set up

rules or some people call that

boundaries I don't I don't have

boundaries in that way right right yeah

I mean that like that's the way if

you're gonna do it I think the most

successful way right but like were you

already there or is this stuff that you

figured out after you had these times

like in the beginning where you were

super jealous because he did [\xa0__\xa0]

someone in the bed I mean was that a

rule that you had or you had none even

then that was a rule we set up a pay I

and and none of them worked that was

that was taking the monogamous mindset

and going over into polyamory with that

and we couldn't that was never gonna

work right so in order to get into

polymer you have to let go of that

and you don't have to if you want to

have a a success in the way that we have

it's conducive to shift over to a more

egalitarian mindset rules are based on

ownership and possession we don't want

to bring ownership and possession a

freedom-based relating yeah that's a but

that's a very Progressive way to be I

think a lot of people aren't there

that's why they need help you know right

that's why we're Progressive love

Academy yeah yeah of course yeah it

makes sense because a lot of people I

think need help to go there you are

always very spiritual people I used to

always believe when I saw like swinging

documentaries years ago like I always

felt like to be really evolved would be

to get to the point where you don't feel

like you own someone sexually right like

I always felt like that was the top of

in evolution but for you you're taking

it even a step further it's even with

love and your emotions and your

vulnerability I mean being completely

without ownership at all yes yeah that's

oh yes that was major as I said it took

many many years of work we even had to

develop communication systems that work

because we found even the communication

communication which I call the language

of War yeah English communication the

way that we talk to each other it's like

well you did this well why you're you're

you're home late I I don't appreciate

that that's disrespectful so we're

accusing within the very language that

we think we're communicating that's not

a communication that's just an

accusation that's a sentence right you

see what I'm saying and they even call

your sentence why are we sentencing

others yes but we have to even we have

to rewrite the English language and

reorder how we com how we talk to each

other you know some therapists and and

psychologists say well we have a

communication issue well what are they

talking about we all know vocabulary

yeah we all are talking in fact we

talking loud so what's the communication

issue we figured out what those are and

we had to in order to shift over to

polyamory but how did you get out of

that monogamous mindset when you know

everyone around you has that word how

did you get to a place where you threw

ever everything that you ever learned

off the table and decided to live in the

minority and be non-monogamous well this

is going to sound like woo probably for

some of your listeners but we started to

pull apart the difference between like

the higher self the ego and the animal

so we realized that the ego yes the ego

is where these beliefs and stories are

are stored yeah now do we want the ego

to be sitting on the throne of our

Consciousness no we don't what would the

higher self think the Limitless self

yeah think about the concept that you

own this person's heart or you own this

person's mind that would be ridiculous

to the higher self the higher self says

we are all one nothing is wrong nothing

is against me you know I am I am

all-powerful I I I can create what I

want I you know nobody's doing anything

to me so those are higher self

principles that we started and then also

you have to find the root to your

stories if I have a story that well if

you didn't text me back that means that

you don't love me is that true where's

that story coming from right who didn't

talk to you as a youth where do you

start to get the trauma around somebody

not getting responding to you right away

where is that trauma born in you okay

let's deal with the root and stop

looking at all these instances that

prove the route to be true let's just

dig up the root yeah what about the root

of like that that thing that most people

believe that if you your partner wants

to sleep with someone else or you allow

them to sleep with someone else it means

they don't love you like they can't love

somebody if they're having sex with

somebody else I mean a lot of people

right and that's an easy route that

route is the big three religions that is

television that root is probably in your

own home you know that route is also

with your sexual training your mother

told you if you were a girl don't give

it up don't open your legs because you

will not be respected so you say well

does that go for men too and nobody ever

answers that question but there's a lot

of roots to that you got to dig up that

whole bed baby because none of that was

true right yeah you know and when I say

true what do I mean true not true based

on a religious Doctrine but true based

on our higher Limitless self right the

higher self said there's nothing wrong

with you there's nothing wrong with

desire there's nothing wrong with sex

and and there's nothing wrong with me

loving more than one person we can see

that root is not true we look at our

kids we love them all yeah you're right

yeah yeah but and you have two husbands

like when do you wind up meeting that

second husband or did you have multiple

husbands or you have you always just had

these two I I just I have two husbands

right now but I had have had many

experience a lot of people always say

well how many men you slept with is

uncountable I love brilliant high five

so you know with my husband I met him in

2014 my second husband so that's after

relationships women moving into my house

men moving into my house of having

Community you know we've went through a

lot before I met a man who was ready to

really join my family mm-hmm

and that was a beautiful thing now it

wasn't beautiful for him because it took

oh your husband your second husband my

second husband yeah now was he married

because I know that one of your husbands

has another wife as well like was this

the guy that is married to to somebody

yes both of my husbands have other wives

so my hubby number one has been married

for two years to another beautiful woman

who lives right down the street and um

he's there two weeks and here two weeks

and then my second husband was married

prior to me meeting him but they were

separated and for all intents and

purposes divorce so I helped him and her

get back together and raise their child

and I became such great friends with her

you know we got her a house so that she

could be on her feet and so yeah we I

love her I love all of their other wives

yeah that's amazing so they're so he's

back married with her as well as married

to you now well I would say they're

co-parenting because they never got they

never got a divorce like that there's no

need to get a divorce yeah you do I have

to say a whole other thing I wanted to

focus on polyamory because I've just had

so many calls with polyamorous people

some gone right some gone wrong you know

but but you do have have a whole thing

that you talk on which is like a divorce

proof marriage which is a pretty major

thing to sort of stand for right because

I feel like it's like the opposite of

like what a lot of really Progressive

people might think right it seems almost

like the opposite of progressive like

some people are like leave somebody if

they cheat on you or it's like worse to

stay than to leave well sure leave

somebody because they might cheat on you

doesn't sound Progressive to me no I

know but this is what's so interesting

about the way you see things you see

them so different than most what most

people say you know what I mean like

they would think it's like losing your

power by staying but you're you see it

oh I see it much different it just needs

a new relationship contract yeah you

know it needs new tools you know nobody

means to cheat on the other but the

concept that you did that we have to dig

in and see how that happened in this

marriage and how to reformulate the

marriage so everybody is getting their

needs met so everybody's because some

people say cheating is not about getting

needs that it's just a power move okay

we need to reformulate the mayor so

everybody feels powerful yeah we have to

reformulate the marriage and polyamory

can be a part of that most of my divorce

proof marriages become polyamorous

marriages oh okay so they remain kind of

yes they have to open in order to

divorce proof themselves because the

divorce comes from feeling like oh my

gosh I'm stuck with this person I'm

stuck not getting my needs met I'm stuck

with the arguments and the this disease

you know okay let's end all of that

you're not stuck with anything you're

going to learn tools Technologies

techniques to help you uproot these

ill-fated beliefs then you're going to

learn how to have a freedom-based

marriage and then you won't there's

nothing to fight about I haven't had a

fight in years yeah fight about what

yeah you're right really if you really

think about a lot of the fighting is you

know even if it doesn't seem like it's

about the fact that you can't [\xa0__\xa0]

somebody else sometimes it is you know

what I mean those little Nitty Gritty

things it's because you know maybe your

wife's sick of blowing you but maybe if

you had a girlfriend and she blew you'd

be happier you know right yeah and and

it's I wish it were that simple but it's

is at the core none of my couples are

allowed to become polyamorous until they

Master authentic communication through

my systems so there's no way to just

jump into poly without authentic

communication on debt right of course

and you guys know that because like I

said it sounds like you guys you didn't

jump into it I mean you were talking

about it for a really long time there

were signs there he mentioned things you

mentioned things but you guys really

didn't dip your toes into it until you

were like married for how long we were

married for 17 no we were married for 12

years when we started that discussion

yeah and at year 15 we opened yeah

that's major and then how long into it

did you get your second husband

wow that was recent as you saw on

seeking brother husband our reality

series we just got our marriage official

marriage ceremony in 2022. but I've been

with him for 10 years yeah yeah that's

major now do you ever have a

relationships with women or only with

I would love to have relationships with

women but I don't I'm not that lesbian

and I really don't feel confident in my

lesbianism although I really love

women's bodies I love women's softness

and I love planning women's hair but I

can't I haven't had a um lesbian

encounter since I was maybe 10 or 11

but are there any threesomes that are

going on in these kinds of scenarios or

is it just or do you keep your

relationship separate in our scenarios

no my husband's would never lay down in

the same bed with me they would think I

was crazy by asking to do that and I

don't typically get with their Partners

however I had a girl who really liked me

she lives in Los Angeles and she came

and see us here in Houston and she

myself and my second husband shared a

bed in fact I hooked my second husband

up with a lot of my friends because he's

very sexual so free sexual you've heard

of that term right yeah yeah so because

he's Fray it's really enticing when I

can set him up with somebody because

that gets his Chi and his juices flowing

for me baby could you explain what that

sure phrase sexuality is when you are

the type of asexual person who prefers

relationships where you don't know the

person that well that's more enticing

once you know somebody well if you're

afraid you don't have the sexual

attraction as strongly oh my God I think

I was phrase sexual when I was younger

and then it switched but I just I

thought I had [\xa0__\xa0] issues I don't

know you know it's so interesting a lot

of people who are free think they have

those issues but he has you know he's

really a free advocate so and then I I

do the things that phrase need you know

he needs space he needs time he doesn't

want to make love every day he I want

him you know to have his adventures and

come back to me ready to give me a

little something you know but this is

not that's what we mean about polyamory

his in mind is not purely sexual

relationships yeah yeah it's very sexual

yeah and I mean he's not giving you all

your needs I mean it's not like you're

waiting around because you also have

your needs met wherever you want I mean

there's no sort of boundaries it is

boundaries exactly yes now you're

thinking Progressive Kathy no listen I

think everyone should think [\xa0__\xa0]

Progressive I've always been like I mean

there wasn't that word polyamory when I

was growing up but I always felt like

polygamy or something other than what

was being dished to me even when I was

younger I was like this is like a crock

of [\xa0__\xa0] you know I don't know I just

never bought into it and I just always

felt like it's so sad that we grow up in

the society where it shoved down our

throats and in a way we barely have a

choice because it's just how we grow up

but I felt like oh a hundred years from

now it would be so beneficial for women

not to be taught this [\xa0__\xa0] because I

really think that like monogamy and the

way it's set up is really worse for

women than men because I think it really

pits us against each other I just think

it's not helpful for women so I think

it's not helpful but it's not helpful

for men either because look at the end

cell movement the incel movement is

about nobody will [\xa0__\xa0] us okay if you

tell every woman who's [\xa0__\xa0] that

she's a [\xa0__\xa0] if you say that a woman

who's [\xa0__\xa0] is for the streets yes if

you say that women who are free women

and centrally open are [\xa0__\xa0] then how

you think you gonna get laid like it's

like a schizophrenic dichotomy that's

happening there and and it's it's not

good for men and you're right it's not

good for women no you know how many

times I when I was younger because I

would just kind of like [\xa0__\xa0] whoever I

wanted and you know I'm 54 so when I was

younger most girls didn't have sex

unless they were in relationships I just

kind of did what I wanted and I can't

tell you how many times my guy friends

would be like you know Kevin you're not

the type of girl you marry like you're

the type of girl you [\xa0__\xa0] and like so

many of my guys that I dated were like

they loved to [\xa0__\xa0] me but they didn't

really want to ever take me seriously

but you know shouldn't girls be allowed

to express that I wasn't any different

than any other girl I was just more out

of the box and just did whatever the

[\xa0__\xa0] I wanted but Mo you think other

girls don't have those same sexual

desires and those same needs that I had

I mean come on it's ridiculous right oh

that's such a good story I love you for

persevering through that and we are

shifting that my daughter's 22. she's

also a poly coach and she is Big Time

online spreading the word I love that

life changing I think it is very

different now now and the younger

generation is so amazing I think it's

very different which is great but I

think that there's still so many people

alive that were born when I grew up and

they need your help because this is what

you guys have been not only teaching

this but living it way before most

people had the balls too which is

thank you it's been a journey and I

really love it I love that you're doing

the strictly Anonymous to let people

talk out about what they're doing so we

start to normalize the fact that you

understand 66 of those married today are

cheating there's a cheating site called

Ashley Madison let's not play games I

had that guy on the CFO was on my show

to talk about it I like I have a

podcaster friend who's in the sexuality

category and she won't uh have anyone on

who has cheated and I'm like why not I

think it's important to hear those

stories you know it's important to get

the [\xa0__\xa0] truth out it's sad that

there's people living double lives and

they have to remain anonymous on my show

but the whole point of them coming on is

so that other people a don't feel so

alone and be that we start to normalize

this kind of stuff and people know what

the is really happening you know and so

a lot of people don't eventually have to

cheat you know down the line right and

bust their family apart which is not

necessary my kids my three kids

everybody always ask them every show hey

what do you think about your parents

considering all of our friends parents

are divorced yes we're very happy about

her well tell me a little bit about that

though like when do you wind up telling

your children and explaining to them or

was it like oh they were young and it

just this is what they just kind of saw

and you never like had to sit them down

or like what were those conversations

well some of both we have never believed

in lying to our children we don't

understand why people lie about sex or

yeah yeah that they are having sex or

the fact that they like sex or you know

we've never understood that so we've

always told our kids the truth we were

starting our poly Journey when our

youngest was four so clearly he's not of

age to have a discussion about it but

our seven nine-year-old yes they were of

age to know that Mommy has other

partners boyfriends daddy has other

partners girlfriends you're gonna meet

them you're gonna you know you're gonna

understand our lifestyle and it's way

different from divorcing we are together

we'll be together forever and that's

what you all can know about this you

know any questions and they always had

questions and we always answer them

directly and honestly and now how about

like the neighbors or the people at

school or the other moms you know when

your kids were younger I mean I I'm

assuming that just people always kind of

knew because you were out and proud I

well yes but I didn't understand the

backlash because I'm I'm a warrior like

yeah you don't want to backlash me

because I say wait a minute who are you

talking to like what are you talking

about look around look around we had a

neighbor one time who was a lesbian

couple and they found out because

everybody could find out we were on

Instagram when it opened 2011. Facebook

when it opened 2007. Polly Polly Polly

yeah so yeah in terms of uh this

neighbor lesbian couple came over and

took their daughter home and never let

the daughter come back because we were

Polly now this is a lesbian couple and

whose logic are we using where's the

non-existent yeah terrible but but I I

believe it but have you seen it change

though over time like even in your own

coaching business like where you're

seeing more people opening up to this

absolutely Donald we've created the

change we've watched it since the

beginning we were on Dr Phil with people

throwing pies at us we were on Richmond

oh you're kidding Fox News yeah Dr Phil

what about [\xa0__\xa0] Dr Drew I heard him

recently and I was like so turned off

because I always loved him and he was

talking about like opening like open

marriages and how it never works and

they always have issues and I'm just

like he doesn't he does I have plenty of

people on my show that have open

marriages and they're fine and you know

I I just think that some people have

such an outdated view of it I was a

surprise with him but you were on all

my gosh yes and Dr Phil lost his title

of doctor with doctor's a stage name now

because he was de-licensed for actually

flirting with his with his secretary so

what is he talking about yeah see he got

mad at me on the show because I said Dr

Phil what would happen if you came home

and told your wife that you were just

attracted to somebody at work she would

hit me over the head with a pan and I

said that's what so you're saying that

you cannot be authentic in your

relationship and you are coaching love

yeah that's awesome so listen give out

all your information I think you're

[\xa0__\xa0] great I think listen I get a lot

of people emailing me looking for help

on certain things and I'm always like I

don't really give advice you know I have

people on and you could learn from my

episodes but I think you you guys you're

like the real deal you have courses

right I mean you have a website you have

books why don't you give like your whole

pitch to everything that you offer

absolutely if anyone wants to think

about can consider polyamory you should

loveacademy.com there's a free manual

the four steps to open love and then

there's also a link that you could share

for how to get your partner into

polyamory if you think my husband would

never consider this all of my clients

wife would never and of course we do so

that's the magic of progressive love the

step-by-step the easy walk the the

safety involved in our coaching but

definitely follow me on Instagram

Progressive love Academy and we have

books yeah you can go to Amazon and pick

up the art of open relating also the

nine expressions of Love or up level

communication just Google my name Kenya

K Stevens you'll probably find a lot of

stuff yeah and you also on that same you

know on your website you have that whole

divorce proof I I mean I feel like we

need to do a whole other episode on that

your whole divorce proof marriage of

course you have something on that as

well right absolutely that's a 12-week

intensive course for couples who really

want to stay together and do the serious

re-constituting their relationship you

know I'm changing the relationship

upgrading the relationship yes right and

now so for that how to get your pro

partner into a polyamory that's like

it's only one person they don't even

have to be at the place yet where the

other person has signed on I mean this

is like the really beginning step like

if you're thinking you want to do it

this is something you could get that

will help you start those conversations

yes that's the first step and don't

watch it with your partner who's not

watch it alone yeah that's interesting

because the partner that isn't ready I

think it was really interesting when you

said in the beginning like how that's

the first that's the partner who should

do the first steps or because really you

have to wait for that like both have to

be on board and in the same place

correct that's why you let that partner

do it first right yes that's why we

created that technology of allowing your

partner to do it first and there's

several more tricks but they explained

are explained in that first video right

so I'm gonna put links to everything I

love you you're hilarious I could see

why you've been on TV a lot because

you're just like a like funny I love

what you have to say you're [\xa0__\xa0]

ballsy you're very ahead of your time

which I think is amazing and needed you

know I mean there's not a lot of people

17 years ago that were doing what you

were doing so you've really helped

people you know already and now you're

gonna help my audience so if anybody

wants to take your course and find all

of your information that you just gave

I'm gonna put all your links I'm

assuming when you have a link tree too

maybe I could put that in my uh

description as well as the link to your

I do absolutely yeah I'll share

everything with you but thank you so

much this is just such a beautiful

platform and I'm so happy that there's

doing what we do nobody and you and your

all your husbands and everybody and your

daughter coming up I love that she's

following in your footsteps and I think

it's great thank you so much for coming

on and sharing your story you not only

teaching you lived it it's fascinating

your story and I will include all your

thank you so much everyone thanks so

much for tuning in to this week's

episode if you want to follow the show

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