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- I am absolutely a
fanatic over this game.
2
00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:57,279
I can eat it up, it's awesome.
3
00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:58,519
- I love it.
4
00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,149
I love getting to
be something else
5
00:01:00,150 --> 00:01:01,759
and creating this character.
6
00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:03,912
- It's a fun way to
express yourself.
7
00:01:10,580 --> 00:01:12,899
- I've been talking pretty
much nonstop for the past
8
00:01:12,900 --> 00:01:14,629
96 hours.
9
00:01:14,630 --> 00:01:16,499
This is as important
as music and movies.
10
00:01:16,500 --> 00:01:18,550
It's another way to
talk and communicate.
11
00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,739
- It's a wonderful way of
connecting with a lot of
12
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different people.
13
00:01:22,691 --> 00:01:24,490
It really changes a lot for you.
14
00:01:24,500 --> 00:01:26,689
It puts you into a different
world and it's just wow,
15
00:01:26,690 --> 00:01:27,690
this is lovely.
16
00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:41,659
- When you engage
something so deep,
17
00:01:41,660 --> 00:01:44,710
so dark, so personal
18
00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:50,320
in that intimate kind of a
way, you carry that with you
19
00:01:51,730 --> 00:01:53,578
wherever you are.
20
00:02:02,770 --> 00:02:06,619
- Here, you are an
outsider getting to play
21
00:02:06,620 --> 00:02:07,850
the ultimate outsider.
22
00:02:12,430 --> 00:02:13,969
All the sudden, you
have different people
23
00:02:13,970 --> 00:02:16,479
that place different
values on what is gaming?
24
00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,240
What is a role playing game?
25
00:02:21,242 --> 00:02:22,977
- It was something that
opened people's eyes
26
00:02:22,978 --> 00:02:27,150
to being able to express yourself
in a whole different way.
27
00:02:32,220 --> 00:02:34,689
- This is one of the great
secrets of pop culture,
28
00:02:34,690 --> 00:02:36,200
of the 21st century.
29
00:02:58,330 --> 00:03:01,219
- The key moment
of my entire life
30
00:03:01,220 --> 00:03:04,499
is when I first played
Dungeons and Dragons.
31
00:03:04,500 --> 00:03:06,339
- Your dungeon master
has placed you
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00:03:06,340 --> 00:03:08,189
in a dreadfully
precarious position.
33
00:03:08,190 --> 00:03:10,764
You're playing the most
phenomenal game ever created.
34
00:03:10,765 --> 00:03:12,690
Your choices are limited.
35
00:03:12,700 --> 00:03:13,779
Stand and fight or run.
36
00:03:13,780 --> 00:03:15,740
Use your lightning bolt.
37
00:03:17,972 --> 00:03:21,110
- I was just instantly
just addicted.
38
00:03:24,630 --> 00:03:26,379
- Throughout the 70's and
80's, the most commercially
39
00:03:26,380 --> 00:03:28,889
successful role playing games
were all fantasy games.
40
00:03:28,890 --> 00:03:31,929
They were all sort of
variations on Lord of the Rings
41
00:03:31,930 --> 00:03:32,940
for the most part.
42
00:03:35,130 --> 00:03:36,599
You go on an adventure.
43
00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:37,490
You kill a dragon.
44
00:03:37,491 --> 00:03:40,590
You get some gold and
then you hit repeat.
45
00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,979
Dungeons & Dragons
popularizing it.
46
00:03:42,980 --> 00:03:45,849
- Dungeons & Dragons has
grown from an obscure hobby
47
00:03:45,850 --> 00:03:48,189
for an obsessed
elite into a craze
48
00:03:48,190 --> 00:03:50,420
shared by an obsessed
million or more.
49
00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:53,459
- Role player, through
it, was something
50
00:03:53,460 --> 00:03:55,879
that was really big in
contemporary culture.
51
00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,510
Literally millions of people
were playing all the time.
52
00:04:02,260 --> 00:04:04,709
It allowed something quite new,
53
00:04:04,710 --> 00:04:07,914
which was a game that had
a very strong narrative.
54
00:04:07,915 --> 00:04:11,929
People would be getting
into this so much.
55
00:04:13,300 --> 00:04:16,729
- It's surprising how
much of your aggressions
56
00:04:16,730 --> 00:04:18,931
you can take out just by
rolling dice trying to
57
00:04:18,932 --> 00:04:21,130
kill some monster.
58
00:04:23,490 --> 00:04:26,489
- Role playing games were an
opportunity to live the story,
59
00:04:26,490 --> 00:04:28,769
ya know, be an actor,
tell the story,
60
00:04:28,770 --> 00:04:31,529
but create drama.
61
00:04:31,530 --> 00:04:35,510
- Yeah, I think the
role playing is,
62
00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:36,559
we call it an art
form, role playing,
63
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:38,749
and it's just unique.
64
00:04:38,750 --> 00:04:40,434
It's a unique experience.
65
00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,769
- I found Dungeons & Dragons
at a very early age,
66
00:04:47,770 --> 00:04:50,280
as a teenager, and we
had a group that played
67
00:04:50,290 --> 00:04:52,240
and it wasn't something
we talked about.
68
00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,900
To admit to being a
Dungeons & Dragons player
69
00:04:57,100 --> 00:05:00,470
or role player, you
risked social ridicule.
70
00:05:06,966 --> 00:05:08,889
- Role-playing games
were not understood.
71
00:05:08,890 --> 00:05:12,890
It was new and especially
in the deep south.
72
00:05:12,900 --> 00:05:14,502
You're a geek and a
nerd for doing it.
73
00:05:14,503 --> 00:05:17,711
None of the cool kids
played role-playing games.
74
00:05:27,140 --> 00:05:29,159
- I think that that is
where I found more of a
75
00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,380
comfort level interacting
with people.
76
00:05:35,750 --> 00:05:37,369
- I was the outsider.
77
00:05:37,370 --> 00:05:40,450
I was teased, not invited
to birthday parties.
78
00:05:42,900 --> 00:05:43,980
That was my life, ya know?
79
00:06:00,700 --> 00:06:02,879
- Part of the role-playing game
hobby and prior to everybody
80
00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,279
sitting down to play,
somebody's gotta come up with a
81
00:06:05,280 --> 00:06:08,310
general story line of what
you're gonna play through.
82
00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:11,141
- Well, we appreciate that.
83
00:06:11,142 --> 00:06:12,120
- Alright.
84
00:06:12,121 --> 00:06:13,259
- Thanks for calling me, okay?
85
00:06:13,260 --> 00:06:16,369
- You can buy books
that give you stories
86
00:06:16,370 --> 00:06:18,132
or you can write your own.
87
00:06:22,420 --> 00:06:25,830
So, from a early point, we
were creating our own story.
88
00:06:28,730 --> 00:06:31,409
- Stewart Wieck, White
Wolf's founder,
89
00:06:31,410 --> 00:06:34,890
he and his brother started
a magazine that was
90
00:06:34,900 --> 00:06:35,339
called White Wolf magazine.
91
00:06:35,340 --> 00:06:39,390
The first couple issues looked
like their stapled together,
92
00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,419
black and white paper,
white line art,
93
00:06:41,420 --> 00:06:44,649
looked like something that
you'd see at a high school
94
00:06:44,650 --> 00:06:47,729
freshman make out of his
garage because that's kinda
95
00:06:47,730 --> 00:06:49,540
not too far from the truth.
96
00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,359
- We pooled money ourselves
and we bought a box of
97
00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:59,590
photocopy paper and I took
that into high school one day
98
00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,469
and asked for permission
to use the photo copier
99
00:07:01,470 --> 00:07:04,369
in the front office and
they said, "Sure, Stewart."
100
00:07:04,370 --> 00:07:09,370
So, I printed my demonic
role-playing game magazine
101
00:07:09,950 --> 00:07:13,420
on the rural Georgia high
school photo copier.
102
00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,179
Initially, the sales on the
magazine were nothing.
103
00:07:23,180 --> 00:07:26,149
I mean, we made like 100
copies of the first issue
104
00:07:26,150 --> 00:07:27,120
of White Wolf.
105
00:07:27,121 --> 00:07:29,519
We're not succeeding
because this looks like
106
00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:31,121
a piece of garbage.
107
00:07:37,430 --> 00:07:38,989
There was a decision
point to like, okay,
108
00:07:38,990 --> 00:07:40,769
if this is really going to
be something we're going
109
00:07:40,770 --> 00:07:44,349
to continue to do, we've
gotta be more serious
110
00:07:44,350 --> 00:07:45,369
about it again.
111
00:07:45,370 --> 00:07:47,739
That's the point at which
we borrowed some money
112
00:07:47,740 --> 00:07:50,741
from our parents.
113
00:07:52,430 --> 00:07:55,406
- That allowed us to do
the full color cover
114
00:07:55,407 --> 00:07:56,457
and all this content.
115
00:08:08,890 --> 00:08:12,839
But, the way we really got
traction with the magazine
116
00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,479
was that we would go
every year to Gen Con.
117
00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,969
Okay, we need, where's upstairs?
118
00:08:17,970 --> 00:08:19,320
Does anybody have any idea?
119
00:08:23,980 --> 00:08:27,819
- Gen Con is the oldest
tabletop role-playing
120
00:08:27,820 --> 00:08:29,789
game convention in the world.
121
00:08:29,790 --> 00:08:33,759
It's where if you make
a physical product
122
00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,619
that rolls dice or uses
cards or has a board,
123
00:08:37,620 --> 00:08:40,330
that's where you go to
celebrate your hobby.
124
00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:45,789
Back then, magazines were
the only way you got
125
00:08:45,790 --> 00:08:46,790
your information.
126
00:08:47,950 --> 00:08:51,849
- So, we would drive up all
these copies of the magazine
127
00:08:51,850 --> 00:08:53,279
and we would hand
out free copies,
128
00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,480
just giving them out to
every gamer in line.
129
00:09:01,100 --> 00:09:02,779
- Gen Con was a place
where you always saw
130
00:09:02,780 --> 00:09:05,871
the next big game, the next
big breakout to happen.
131
00:09:09,330 --> 00:09:11,579
- It would've been Gen
Con '87 that I first met
132
00:09:11,580 --> 00:09:14,211
Mark Rein-Hagen of Lion
Rampant at the time
133
00:09:14,212 --> 00:09:18,359
and Ars Magica was one
of those little games
134
00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,977
from a little company
that I found and I was
135
00:09:21,978 --> 00:09:23,880
blown away by it.
136
00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,230
It was very artful, the
contents were spectacular.
137
00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,196
- Ars Magica was
this phenomenal game
138
00:09:37,197 --> 00:09:40,890
that won all these awards.
139
00:09:40,900 --> 00:09:42,110
At the time, we
were not doing well
140
00:09:43,900 --> 00:09:45,429
and I met Stewart and he
just seemed like the kind of
141
00:09:45,430 --> 00:09:47,700
rock solid business guy.
142
00:09:52,263 --> 00:09:53,929
- These are serious
fantasy game players
143
00:09:53,930 --> 00:09:57,269
who are here to assume the
roles of imaginary characters
144
00:09:57,270 --> 00:09:59,509
in imaginary places.
145
00:09:59,510 --> 00:10:01,641
- The role-playing game industry
at that point was tiny.
146
00:10:01,642 --> 00:10:06,642
So, for financial reasons,
Lion Rampant and White Wolf
147
00:10:07,790 --> 00:10:10,612
magazine decided to merge.
148
00:10:12,870 --> 00:10:15,519
Mark, at that point, decided
to move down to Atlanta
149
00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,200
where the Wieck brothers were.
150
00:10:22,490 --> 00:10:24,490
Thought was that we were
going to do everything
151
00:10:24,500 --> 00:10:26,481
we were doing
already, but better.
152
00:10:26,482 --> 00:10:29,129
- White Wolf moves from the
environments of a little
153
00:10:29,130 --> 00:10:31,829
five points, which is
this very Bohemian,
154
00:10:31,830 --> 00:10:35,555
artist friendly, counter
cultural cluster of
155
00:10:35,556 --> 00:10:39,490
the weird and alternative
and misunderstood
156
00:10:39,500 --> 00:10:40,850
that lives in the
middle of Atlanta.
157
00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:43,700
So, it's a perfect fit.
158
00:10:48,450 --> 00:10:51,429
- Everyone worked together
and they lived together.
159
00:10:51,430 --> 00:10:52,410
Your bedroom was your office.
160
00:10:52,411 --> 00:10:54,250
- Mark's bedroom was his office.
161
00:10:55,102 --> 00:10:57,939
- The house was always a weird
kind of eclectic mess of
162
00:10:57,940 --> 00:10:59,790
creative papers everywhere.
163
00:11:00,750 --> 00:11:04,650
- We're all stuck in this house
together and it was nuts.
164
00:11:13,410 --> 00:11:15,561
- So, here was this
little company with this
165
00:11:15,562 --> 00:11:20,790
really nifty, semi
successful independent game
166
00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:22,850
and it's time for the annual
pilgrimage to Gen Con.
167
00:11:26,830 --> 00:11:29,390
- You had to go through Indiana.
168
00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:30,840
You had to go through
Gary, Indiana.
169
00:11:32,670 --> 00:11:36,619
I had never seen a place, it
just looked like time forgot.
170
00:11:36,620 --> 00:11:39,788
It was the worst.
171
00:11:43,870 --> 00:11:46,939
- Their wholesale urban
decay brought about
172
00:11:46,940 --> 00:11:50,209
by the economic disaster that
was the 70's and the 80's
173
00:11:50,210 --> 00:11:52,159
ruined a lot of people's lives.
174
00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:53,369
That's what Mark saw in Gary.
175
00:11:53,370 --> 00:11:57,998
He saw the complete and
utter disdain for humanity.
176
00:12:01,660 --> 00:12:02,660
We did that.
177
00:12:03,641 --> 00:12:06,790
It wasn't the automotive
companies that destroyed.
178
00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:07,910
Rust Belt, America, it was us.
179
00:12:09,310 --> 00:12:10,310
People.
180
00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:12,200
We let it happen.
181
00:12:30,780 --> 00:12:33,660
- I remember us saying,
"This place is bad."
182
00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:37,600
"Who would live here?"
183
00:12:45,710 --> 00:12:47,756
Mark was like,
"Probably vampires."
184
00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,510
- Instantly, I knew, boom.
185
00:12:56,610 --> 00:12:58,610
You are the vampire.
186
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:04,760
You were human.
187
00:13:05,660 --> 00:13:06,799
You've been fucked.
188
00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:08,349
Your life is over.
189
00:13:08,350 --> 00:13:09,959
It's this nightmare world.
190
00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:10,870
What are you gonna do now?
191
00:13:10,871 --> 00:13:12,210
How are you gonna survive?
192
00:13:35,587 --> 00:13:37,237
Everyone in the
car went, "What?"
193
00:13:41,730 --> 00:13:45,429
Like back then, the
idea of being a vampire
194
00:13:45,430 --> 00:13:48,640
was just impossible to imagine.
195
00:13:55,754 --> 00:13:57,329
- In role-playing games,
196
00:13:57,330 --> 00:14:00,729
vampires were monsters
to be killed.
197
00:14:00,730 --> 00:14:02,689
Their lairs looted for treasure.
198
00:14:02,690 --> 00:14:05,649
- Vampires were always something
in Dungeons and Dragons
199
00:14:05,650 --> 00:14:06,560
that you fought.
200
00:14:06,561 --> 00:14:10,169
- You know, now it seems
so normal and ordinary
201
00:14:10,170 --> 00:14:12,419
and such a plausible idea.
202
00:14:12,420 --> 00:14:16,971
But at the time, it was
a definite glitch.
203
00:14:26,100 --> 00:14:31,100
Normally, at Gen Con, which
is the great one convention,
204
00:14:31,430 --> 00:14:33,429
I was a party animal.
205
00:14:33,430 --> 00:14:35,830
I would party the
whole time, right?
206
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,740
This convention, I
didn't party at all.
207
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,850
I just sat and wrote
and wrote and wrote.
208
00:14:48,710 --> 00:14:50,490
And it just all flowed out.
209
00:15:19,222 --> 00:15:20,719
- Being in that dark
side takes me away
210
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,100
from my ordinary life.
211
00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:35,640
You gotta explore the
deprivation and violence
212
00:15:37,420 --> 00:15:41,540
that you don't do in
your regular life.
213
00:15:46,910 --> 00:15:51,479
You don't have to actually
expose yourself to those dangers
214
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:53,260
but you get to experience them.
215
00:15:56,370 --> 00:15:58,419
You can just get a bit
of an understanding
216
00:15:58,420 --> 00:16:01,303
why you feel the way you
feel or act the way you act
217
00:16:01,304 --> 00:16:03,700
by taking on a different role.
218
00:16:12,930 --> 00:16:16,390
I met a lot of people I've
been friends with for years
219
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:17,400
through RP-ing.
220
00:16:19,250 --> 00:16:22,173
You get a thing that binds you
together, this experience.
221
00:16:40,383 --> 00:16:42,383
- Fuckin' daylight!
222
00:16:45,947 --> 00:16:48,309
- Vampire at the
Masquerade clearly draws
223
00:16:48,310 --> 00:16:50,899
a lot of it's inspiration
from movies like.
224
00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:53,680
The Lost Boys and New
Dark and The Hunger,
225
00:16:54,820 --> 00:16:57,489
sort of vampire
myths of the 80's.
226
00:16:57,490 --> 00:17:02,630
It also draws from some
of the entire spectrum of
227
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,100
popular vampire mythology.
228
00:17:08,170 --> 00:17:11,226
- Vampires have been depicted
differently in different eras.
229
00:17:11,227 --> 00:17:14,449
In the very earliest
stories about vampires,
230
00:17:14,450 --> 00:17:16,189
folklore stories about vampires,
231
00:17:16,190 --> 00:17:18,469
vampires are not seductive
and they are not appealing.
232
00:17:18,470 --> 00:17:19,539
Vampires are ghouls.
233
00:17:19,540 --> 00:17:23,290
The Lord Ruthven is
somebody who is handsome,
234
00:17:23,300 --> 00:17:27,969
is personable, and yet,
ultimately, he is revealed to be
235
00:17:27,970 --> 00:17:31,119
a top of the food
chain predator.
236
00:17:31,120 --> 00:17:36,120
But Dracula really is ground
zero for our contemporary
237
00:17:36,270 --> 00:17:37,969
conception of the vampire.
238
00:17:37,970 --> 00:17:41,169
He is where it starts, the
idea of the seductive vampire,
239
00:17:41,170 --> 00:17:43,528
the appealing vampire,
the vampire who's
240
00:17:43,529 --> 00:17:48,329
lust for human blood does
not make him unwelcome
241
00:17:48,330 --> 00:17:49,670
in human company.
242
00:17:54,770 --> 00:17:57,710
Anne Rice's Interview
with a Vampire was a real
243
00:17:57,711 --> 00:17:58,749
turning point for a
number of reasons,
244
00:17:58,750 --> 00:18:02,649
but the single biggest
one I think was that it
245
00:18:02,650 --> 00:18:05,449
pushed the sexuality
of vampire stories
246
00:18:05,450 --> 00:18:06,930
even farther forward.
247
00:18:09,817 --> 00:18:12,789
- That provided the
contemporary idea of
248
00:18:12,790 --> 00:18:16,326
they were tragic, romantically
cursed creatures,
249
00:18:16,327 --> 00:18:20,840
ones you could sympathize with
and arguably wanna be with.
250
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:27,529
- I decided I would
not read Anne Rice.
251
00:18:27,530 --> 00:18:29,229
I would not be tainted.
252
00:18:29,230 --> 00:18:32,129
Of course, what I didn't
realize was that all these
253
00:18:32,130 --> 00:18:34,414
80 vampire movies
that I loved so much,
254
00:18:34,415 --> 00:18:37,760
all stole their stuff
from Anne Rice.
255
00:18:43,470 --> 00:18:44,879
- Sleep all day,
party all night.
256
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:46,490
It's fun to be a vampire.
257
00:18:51,556 --> 00:18:56,349
- What vampire did was it
essentially took ownership
258
00:18:56,350 --> 00:18:59,759
of every previous
vampire myth said,
259
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:01,909
if you're a fan of
any of these things,
260
00:19:01,910 --> 00:19:04,860
come play in our world 'cause
our world is the whole world.
261
00:19:10,110 --> 00:19:12,509
- After we got back
from that Gen Con,
262
00:19:12,510 --> 00:19:14,660
Mark really started
working on his vampire.
263
00:19:16,140 --> 00:19:19,679
- Stewart was very much the
sounding board for me.
264
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,569
His office is across
the hallway from me
265
00:19:22,570 --> 00:19:24,329
as I constantly burst in and go,
266
00:19:24,330 --> 00:19:26,138
"What do you think of this idea?
267
00:19:26,139 --> 00:19:31,690
"Okay, we're gonna have clans
and these clans will be
268
00:19:31,700 --> 00:19:33,169
"the way, they'll be
like character classes,
269
00:19:33,170 --> 00:19:35,439
"but we're not gonna
do character classes."
270
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,199
"They'll be like social
groups but they won't"
271
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:39,679
"give you anything extra."
272
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:41,990
"They will, they will,
but they won't."
273
00:19:41,100 --> 00:19:45,619
He would go, "That
sounds good, Mark."
274
00:19:52,610 --> 00:19:55,159
- One of the most powerful
design ideas in Vampire
275
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:56,910
is the idea of Clans.
276
00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:02,349
- Monster entertainment
always, I think, has appealed
277
00:20:02,350 --> 00:20:05,809
to outsiders but, if you are
slightly different in some
278
00:20:05,810 --> 00:20:09,149
manner in your real life,
it's so nice to belong,
279
00:20:09,150 --> 00:20:12,310
ya know, to a clan or a pack
and to have a clear purpose.
280
00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:16,789
- That idea that
you would inherit
281
00:20:16,790 --> 00:20:19,644
a world view and
political position
282
00:20:19,645 --> 00:20:23,579
and history with your choice
of character had never been
283
00:20:23,580 --> 00:20:26,130
expressed so fully and
completely before.
284
00:20:41,690 --> 00:20:43,499
- When I first started
in role-playing games,
285
00:20:43,500 --> 00:20:45,449
the biggest artists in the
gaming industry at the time
286
00:20:45,450 --> 00:20:48,900
were guys that did
the D&D stuff,
287
00:20:48,100 --> 00:20:50,100
but they weren't very dynamic.
288
00:20:51,100 --> 00:20:54,469
There was gaming art before
Tim and then there was Tim.
289
00:20:54,470 --> 00:20:56,469
- It was a lot of fun.
290
00:20:56,470 --> 00:21:00,179
So many things before that
were very high fantasy art
291
00:21:00,180 --> 00:21:02,499
to varying degrees of quality.
292
00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:04,719
Ya know, classic
swords and sorcery,
293
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,369
big guys in armor and
dragons and women in
294
00:21:08,370 --> 00:21:09,850
chain mill bikinis.
295
00:21:11,230 --> 00:21:16,310
Vampire was the first
time where I really sunk,
296
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,639
pardon the pun, I
sunk my teeth into it
297
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:23,269
and it was the right
subject matter
298
00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:25,700
at the right time for me.
299
00:21:28,990 --> 00:21:30,909
I immediately knew
what I wanted to do.
300
00:21:30,910 --> 00:21:33,532
Instead of having this
character on this page that
301
00:21:33,533 --> 00:21:36,310
feels like a comic book,
302
00:21:37,220 --> 00:21:40,390
what if I wanna make them real?
303
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:41,390
I wanna make them possible.
304
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,439
- He basically brought
this real world grittiness
305
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,919
that you could, you
could really believe
306
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:52,370
'cause they were real people.
307
00:21:53,350 --> 00:21:54,629
- I would just get friends over.
308
00:21:54,630 --> 00:21:55,630
I would say,
309
00:21:56,303 --> 00:21:57,479
"Okay, who's gonna be right
for this character?"
310
00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,690
My friends were in these bands.
311
00:21:59,700 --> 00:22:00,917
That's my pal, Sherry Wall.
312
00:22:00,918 --> 00:22:03,290
She's one of my favorite
people on the planet.
313
00:22:03,300 --> 00:22:04,269
There's a classic right there.
314
00:22:04,270 --> 00:22:05,489
That's Tim Shinkle.
315
00:22:05,490 --> 00:22:07,939
My best friend, Joel, who
modeled for everything for me
316
00:22:07,940 --> 00:22:09,690
for a long time.
317
00:22:09,700 --> 00:22:10,777
It's my pal, Scotty Wilson.
318
00:22:10,778 --> 00:22:13,739
The absolute, quintessential,
gypsy white trash
319
00:22:13,740 --> 00:22:15,551
vampire is Scott Wilson.
320
00:22:15,552 --> 00:22:16,552
Wow.
321
00:22:22,976 --> 00:22:24,939
So, instead of having
it be some count
322
00:22:24,940 --> 00:22:28,189
that lives in, ya know,
Romania, 400 years ago,
323
00:22:28,190 --> 00:22:29,940
I started with a
different culture.
324
00:22:31,690 --> 00:22:35,379
- It immediately makes it like
wow, this is our vampires.
325
00:22:35,380 --> 00:22:36,809
I can be one.
326
00:22:36,810 --> 00:22:39,169
I can just go down to
the club and be one.
327
00:22:39,170 --> 00:22:43,389
- I don't know whether or
not I realized how big.
328
00:22:43,390 --> 00:22:48,129
Vampire was going to be until
these visuals came in.
329
00:22:48,130 --> 00:22:50,850
I was like, this is
cool on another level.
330
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,889
- Tim Bradstreet's
artwork was one of the
331
00:23:02,890 --> 00:23:04,590
best decisions we made.
332
00:23:05,940 --> 00:23:09,149
- The full pages were it.
333
00:23:09,150 --> 00:23:10,240
They were gothic pun.
334
00:23:11,610 --> 00:23:13,939
They expressed the
moment of the time.
335
00:23:13,940 --> 00:23:15,640
They expressed characters.
336
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:18,260
They were perfect.
337
00:23:20,690 --> 00:23:24,179
Funny thing is, we had no
money left for a cover.
338
00:23:24,180 --> 00:23:25,220
We were screwed.
339
00:23:26,700 --> 00:23:29,279
- They had actually commissioned
a piece of artwork,
340
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,349
Vampire with a blood tear and
a helicopter crashed in the
341
00:23:32,350 --> 00:23:34,690
background and a
motorcycle and stuff
342
00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:36,755
and it was just, didn't
really feel right.
343
00:23:36,756 --> 00:23:40,309
I came up with the idea of
wanting to do something
344
00:23:40,310 --> 00:23:42,509
that was a little more
photographic and a little more,
345
00:23:42,510 --> 00:23:44,949
let people just put their own
vision of what they thought
346
00:23:44,950 --> 00:23:47,700
vampires could be onto that.
347
00:23:50,730 --> 00:23:51,400
- So we got in his car.
348
00:23:51,410 --> 00:23:54,229
We bought a bunch of roses
with the last dollars
349
00:23:54,230 --> 00:23:58,479
in my pocket and we
went to a stone place
350
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,310
and we bought a piece
of green marble.
351
00:24:02,310 --> 00:24:05,119
We snapped that photo
and I am absolutely
352
00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:09,349
100% convinced that if
it had a stupid, cheesy
353
00:24:09,350 --> 00:24:14,350
gamer, I'm a Vampire, that
wouldn't have worked.
354
00:24:29,330 --> 00:24:33,590
- At that time, the world
was changing a lot.
355
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,419
The sort of old guard
Republicans in America
356
00:24:35,420 --> 00:24:37,900
were coming up power.
357
00:24:37,100 --> 00:24:39,437
The Berlin Wall had
just come down.
358
00:24:39,438 --> 00:24:42,390
Music was making this
revolution, this sort of
359
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,330
hair metal poppy scene of
the 80's was fading away
360
00:24:45,340 --> 00:24:47,680
to the Seattle punk scene.
361
00:24:48,970 --> 00:24:51,669
- In the early 90's, there
was an undercurrent
362
00:24:51,670 --> 00:24:53,580
of a need for change.
363
00:24:54,490 --> 00:24:57,969
There was a need for a dark
voice and those people
364
00:24:57,970 --> 00:25:00,630
with dark voices emerged.
365
00:25:08,832 --> 00:25:10,999
- 1990 was the first time
that you heard about it.
366
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,789
It's first advertisement for
this game called Vampire
367
00:25:13,790 --> 00:25:16,859
was just a big black paper
with just white Vampire
368
00:25:16,860 --> 00:25:18,690
across it.
369
00:25:18,700 --> 00:25:20,349
- When Vampire the
Masquerade came out,
370
00:25:20,350 --> 00:25:21,599
I'd seen nothing like it.
371
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:26,890
This beautiful green cover
with a red rose across it,
372
00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:28,630
just absolutely beautiful,
I had to pick it up.
373
00:25:34,980 --> 00:25:38,490
- This is vampires
and goth and punk
374
00:25:38,500 --> 00:25:40,639
and that, of course, makes
it vastly different
375
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,290
from any role-playing game
that has ever come before.
376
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,539
- Here, you are an
outsider getting to play
377
00:25:50,540 --> 00:25:51,850
the ultimate outsider.
378
00:25:54,717 --> 00:25:58,717
That was catalytic for us.
379
00:26:03,830 --> 00:26:06,690
- It wasn't even really so
much playing the vampire
380
00:26:06,700 --> 00:26:09,110
as becoming the vampire.
381
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,803
- It's not just reading a
novel about an anti-hero.
382
00:26:16,804 --> 00:26:20,970
Those moral ambiguities and
moral challenges are yours now.
383
00:26:35,623 --> 00:26:38,706
- I can hear her heart beating.
384
00:26:42,427 --> 00:26:44,450
My mind screams with lust.
385
00:26:50,565 --> 00:26:51,565
Now.
386
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,490
- Suddenly, people who had
never been interested
387
00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:10,169
in role-playing games before
or geek culture before
388
00:27:10,170 --> 00:27:11,170
were interested.
389
00:27:13,870 --> 00:27:16,429
- I remember working in the
store after the Vampire
390
00:27:16,430 --> 00:27:18,659
first edition had come out.
391
00:27:18,660 --> 00:27:21,239
There was sort of a
steady stream of ya know,
392
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:22,949
these sort of goth kids
that were coming into
393
00:27:22,950 --> 00:27:24,749
the game store which was weird
394
00:27:24,750 --> 00:27:26,900
'cause they didn't
buy anything else.
395
00:27:26,100 --> 00:27:27,469
They didn't socialize
with anyone.
396
00:27:27,470 --> 00:27:29,709
They came in and they bought
their White Wolf products
397
00:27:29,710 --> 00:27:30,710
and they left.
398
00:27:35,540 --> 00:27:38,690
- They wanted to share
this thing with us,
399
00:27:38,700 --> 00:27:39,320
this thing that we loved.
400
00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:43,369
It was a new
sensation to be cool
401
00:27:43,370 --> 00:27:45,370
or to at least think
you were cool.
402
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:14,269
- I grew up in a very
not progressive part
403
00:28:14,270 --> 00:28:17,659
of the United States and I
didn't really have a lot
404
00:28:17,660 --> 00:28:19,869
of friends, so all of
my spare time was spent
405
00:28:19,870 --> 00:28:22,629
reading books or drawing or
doing all of these things
406
00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:24,990
that were kind of by
myself and in my own head.
407
00:28:31,910 --> 00:28:33,699
Then, when I finally
met one or two people
408
00:28:33,700 --> 00:28:35,899
who actually played
these things,
409
00:28:35,900 --> 00:28:38,859
it was like a whole other
experience because suddenly,
410
00:28:38,860 --> 00:28:41,499
I was getting to hang
out and be with people
411
00:28:41,500 --> 00:28:43,339
that were just as into these
412
00:28:43,340 --> 00:28:45,330
strange little ideas as I was.
413
00:28:49,470 --> 00:28:52,759
Looking at those books, looking
at every single little bit
414
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,890
of that stark black and
white, beautiful art
415
00:28:55,900 --> 00:28:57,629
with all the detail,
all that ink work,
416
00:28:57,630 --> 00:28:58,780
I was enthralled.
417
00:29:00,650 --> 00:29:05,429
It was just so, my
imagination went everywhere
418
00:29:05,430 --> 00:29:07,530
just getting to look
at all of that stuff.
419
00:29:13,890 --> 00:29:16,929
It's not just here is a
mechanical system of numbers,
420
00:29:16,930 --> 00:29:19,906
but rather, it's like, here
is a way you can really
421
00:29:19,907 --> 00:29:23,520
collaboratively create some
universe with each other.
422
00:29:33,540 --> 00:29:36,729
- Vampire had the artwork
and the clownsiest stem
423
00:29:36,730 --> 00:29:38,169
of this idea that
you're the monster
424
00:29:38,170 --> 00:29:41,900
but what really made
it revolutionary is
425
00:29:41,100 --> 00:29:44,329
that it shifted focus
away from rolls and dice
426
00:29:44,330 --> 00:29:45,640
towards storytelling.
427
00:29:47,670 --> 00:29:51,259
- Vampire was written differently
than other role-playing
428
00:29:51,260 --> 00:29:52,930
game products.
429
00:29:52,940 --> 00:29:53,339
It was produced differently.
430
00:29:53,340 --> 00:29:54,639
It looked different.
431
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,329
It read differently.
432
00:29:56,330 --> 00:29:59,799
It was not just a collection
of numbers and statistics
433
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,231
and tables for how to
kill monsters or how to
434
00:30:02,232 --> 00:30:04,400
have a car chase.
435
00:30:07,660 --> 00:30:10,979
- When it came out,
it was a revolution.
436
00:30:10,980 --> 00:30:15,990
This was during a time when
games like roll master
437
00:30:15,100 --> 00:30:17,689
were great and they had
these hundreds and hundreds
438
00:30:17,690 --> 00:30:20,640
of pages of tables that they'd
go through and look through.
439
00:30:22,900 --> 00:30:26,969
We started realizing that what
we felt was most powerful
440
00:30:26,970 --> 00:30:28,639
was the conversation.
441
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,859
It wasn't really, can I
jump between the buildings,
442
00:30:31,860 --> 00:30:34,860
roll the dice and so, that became
more and more meaningless.
443
00:30:38,670 --> 00:30:42,589
- Horror fiction is really
popular because it allows
444
00:30:42,590 --> 00:30:45,729
us to engage with a lot
of big moral questions
445
00:30:45,730 --> 00:30:50,169
and these issues about humanity
and often about belonging.
446
00:30:50,170 --> 00:30:53,159
Role-playing is a very
good medium for exploring
447
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:54,960
some of those dynamics
specifically.
448
00:30:57,300 --> 00:31:00,890
- It's not an external
force you're fighting
449
00:31:00,900 --> 00:31:03,439
which you can kill with
a sword or a fireball.
450
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,370
It's the conflict within you
451
00:31:06,810 --> 00:31:10,760
which makes it much more
psychological type of game.
452
00:31:13,330 --> 00:31:15,339
- It doesn't look very exciting.
453
00:31:15,340 --> 00:31:17,259
If you walk into a room
and people are playing
454
00:31:17,260 --> 00:31:20,399
pen and paper, they're
just sitting around.
455
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,749
It's happening in this sort
of shared imaginative space
456
00:31:22,750 --> 00:31:25,249
between all the players
and that means that
457
00:31:25,250 --> 00:31:27,780
you can't see it
unless you're playing.
458
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,580
It's all happening
in their minds.
459
00:32:11,660 --> 00:32:13,429
- There's Mark
Rein-Hagen's head.
460
00:32:13,430 --> 00:32:14,430
Come show me.
461
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:16,719
Turn, look down.
462
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:18,400
Show me the whole business.
463
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,759
- At Gen Con, game
just explodes.
464
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,119
- Clone of Chaos.
465
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:30,619
- I went over to the White
Wolf booth and I was like,
466
00:32:30,620 --> 00:32:32,199
"Dude, how's it going
for you guys?"
467
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:33,989
They were like, "It's nuts."
468
00:32:33,990 --> 00:32:35,190
It was crazy.
469
00:32:37,570 --> 00:32:39,899
White Wolf grew so fast.
470
00:32:39,900 --> 00:32:42,819
I mean, they literally went
from being a garage company
471
00:32:42,820 --> 00:32:45,700
to a million dollar
company overnight.
472
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,790
- People's appetite for the
game was just ferocious.
473
00:32:52,850 --> 00:32:55,379
- Going from living
in a house together
474
00:32:55,380 --> 00:32:58,509
with our warehouse in
the yard to ya know,
475
00:32:58,510 --> 00:33:00,880
renting a warehouse building.
476
00:33:03,140 --> 00:33:06,990
- Vampire was taking
the industry by storm
477
00:33:06,100 --> 00:33:08,929
and we became known as
the company that would
478
00:33:08,930 --> 00:33:10,130
throw the crazy parties.
479
00:33:27,340 --> 00:33:30,609
- The late night, gothic
punk scene in Atlanta
480
00:33:30,610 --> 00:33:32,939
was incredibly strong.
481
00:33:32,940 --> 00:33:34,329
- We went out every night.
482
00:33:34,330 --> 00:33:36,290
We were there in the clubs
where this is happening.
483
00:33:36,300 --> 00:33:38,499
So, it's informing the game
and you could not separate
484
00:33:38,500 --> 00:33:41,800
the game from club culture
and club fashion.
485
00:33:42,700 --> 00:33:46,359
- It began to aggregate different
looks of counter culture
486
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:51,360
into one beautiful, blended,
gothic punk aesthetic,
487
00:33:51,940 --> 00:33:55,769
which then, in turn,
certainly began to appear
488
00:33:55,770 --> 00:33:58,319
everywhere else.
489
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,859
- Stuff that was really
niche, all of the sudden
490
00:34:00,860 --> 00:34:04,479
became this sort of bigger
and broader subculture
491
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:05,830
visual aesthetic.
492
00:34:17,260 --> 00:34:21,260
Thousands of people,
inarguably, by those classic
493
00:34:22,141 --> 00:34:24,910
vampire depictions
of you can be this.
494
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,690
- We have vampires,
we need werewolves.
495
00:34:39,700 --> 00:34:41,999
Right and so, we're gonna
put ourselves on the spot.
496
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,149
Here's the games
we're going to make
497
00:34:44,150 --> 00:34:46,284
and I guess we'll make them.
498
00:34:47,900 --> 00:34:49,150
- Now we gotta make them.
499
00:34:54,710 --> 00:34:57,279
- We were really creating
a world of darkness
500
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,919
and the idea was that in
the world of darkness,
501
00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:02,690
these vampires
existed side by side
502
00:35:02,700 --> 00:35:04,159
with these werewolves
and these mages
503
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,530
and the lingering after
effects of ghosts.
504
00:35:14,570 --> 00:35:17,590
There were other games
that kind of supposed
505
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,449
different supernatural
creatures would be in contact
506
00:35:19,450 --> 00:35:22,299
with one another, but the
world of darkness idea
507
00:35:22,300 --> 00:35:25,319
that these all shared a
world, that their societal
508
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,349
structures overlapped one
another or often intruded
509
00:35:28,350 --> 00:35:31,649
on one another, that's
really I think,
510
00:35:31,650 --> 00:35:35,710
what made the world of
darkness stand out.
511
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,339
The same time, these live
action rules for playing.
512
00:35:52,340 --> 00:35:55,290
Vampire the Masquerade emerged.
513
00:35:58,700 --> 00:36:02,900
- The first live action
role-playing game product
514
00:36:02,100 --> 00:36:03,990
was called The Masquerade.
515
00:36:03,100 --> 00:36:04,869
It was a big box set.
516
00:36:04,870 --> 00:36:07,559
There'd never really been
a LARP product before.
517
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,489
Once you actually had
something on the shelf
518
00:36:09,490 --> 00:36:12,909
for people to buy, next
to the table top game,
519
00:36:12,910 --> 00:36:14,301
then it exploded.
520
00:36:14,302 --> 00:36:15,760
Then it got big.
521
00:36:22,150 --> 00:36:23,459
- LARP started out
as an acronym for
522
00:36:23,460 --> 00:36:25,339
live action role playing.
523
00:36:25,340 --> 00:36:27,969
It's a form of role playing
where you embody the character
524
00:36:27,970 --> 00:36:30,269
and very often, you also
dress up as your character
525
00:36:30,270 --> 00:36:33,760
and try to portray their
actions as fully as possible.
526
00:36:37,330 --> 00:36:38,869
- LARP existed before this.
527
00:36:38,870 --> 00:36:40,832
This is what made it huge
in the same way that
528
00:36:40,833 --> 00:36:43,729
there was science fiction
before Star Wars
529
00:36:43,730 --> 00:36:45,180
and then there was Star Wars.
530
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:48,959
All of the sudden, instead
of like five or six people
531
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,909
playing around a table,
you had 15, 30, 60,
532
00:36:52,910 --> 00:36:56,559
hundreds playing in
parks, college campuses,
533
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:57,560
in night clubs.
534
00:36:59,696 --> 00:37:00,996
It was more like an event.
535
00:37:05,170 --> 00:37:08,736
- Up until Vampire, most
of the live action games
536
00:37:08,737 --> 00:37:12,209
were people in a
field or in a forest
537
00:37:12,210 --> 00:37:15,490
with padded foam swords
running and chasing
538
00:37:15,500 --> 00:37:16,508
and hitting each other.
539
00:37:18,260 --> 00:37:21,550
The Vampire live action game
was more of a social drama.
540
00:37:26,580 --> 00:37:28,139
All of the sudden, you
had different people
541
00:37:28,140 --> 00:37:30,639
that place different
values on what is gaming?
542
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,769
What is a role playing game?
543
00:37:32,770 --> 00:37:37,770
- We are all being hunted
because we are one!
544
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,869
- It completely changed
the type of people
545
00:37:49,870 --> 00:37:52,815
that would play an
event like that.
546
00:37:52,816 --> 00:37:53,816
- Calm down!
547
00:37:56,110 --> 00:37:58,990
- They were not
traditional gamers.
548
00:37:58,100 --> 00:37:59,429
They were theater people.
549
00:37:59,430 --> 00:38:01,379
They cared about the
narrative, the story,
550
00:38:01,380 --> 00:38:03,437
the drama, they
wanted intensity.
551
00:38:08,222 --> 00:38:10,179
- What people get
surprised by often
552
00:38:10,180 --> 00:38:13,725
is how powerful role
playing as a form is.
553
00:38:13,726 --> 00:38:16,477
- You made me this monster!
554
00:38:16,478 --> 00:38:19,929
- Everybody's creating
the story every moment
555
00:38:19,930 --> 00:38:21,490
through the game.
556
00:38:21,500 --> 00:38:23,337
When you speak, you
are creating it.
557
00:38:23,338 --> 00:38:25,779
When you are not speaking,
you are also creating it.
558
00:38:25,780 --> 00:38:28,769
You're doing something
kind of difficult
559
00:38:28,770 --> 00:38:29,969
and awesome together.
560
00:38:29,970 --> 00:38:31,949
You created this world
561
00:38:31,950 --> 00:38:34,000
and you made it real
for a little while.
562
00:38:42,620 --> 00:38:45,159
- I felt the timing was perfect
for this role playing game.
563
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,659
So, I went to friends of
mine, said what do you guys
564
00:38:47,660 --> 00:38:50,839
think about transforming
the world of Vampire
565
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,420
into a living, breathing
organization?
566
00:38:54,410 --> 00:38:56,750
Our interest was
building a community.
567
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,190
- Camarilla Fan Club was
extraordinarily important.
568
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,369
White Wolf was one of the
very first role playing game
569
00:39:03,370 --> 00:39:06,859
companies to have a
dedicated fan club
570
00:39:06,860 --> 00:39:09,329
that would go out into the
world and show people
571
00:39:09,330 --> 00:39:11,100
how cool their stuff was.
572
00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:14,990
- That was something that was
really different with Vampire.
573
00:39:14,100 --> 00:39:17,559
We didn't build large communities
around our D&D games,
574
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:19,949
but when it became
Vampire and then,
575
00:39:19,950 --> 00:39:22,589
when it became live action,
then all the sudden,
576
00:39:22,590 --> 00:39:24,718
we were bringing other
people from other cities in.
577
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,439
- We felt a really easy
point of entry for someone
578
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,409
to get involved in the
world of darkness
579
00:39:30,410 --> 00:39:32,724
where friends would say,
"Hey, what about this"
580
00:39:32,725 --> 00:39:33,558
"game in the back?"
581
00:39:33,559 --> 00:39:34,789
"Come with us, take a look
and see what you think."
582
00:39:34,790 --> 00:39:36,569
- Those people were passionate
about what they were doing
583
00:39:36,570 --> 00:39:39,469
and so, they continued to
inspire other people to be
584
00:39:39,470 --> 00:39:42,150
passionate and it was a big
part of how the brand grew.
585
00:39:45,130 --> 00:39:47,939
- It grew so fast, we simply
could not keep up with it.
586
00:39:47,940 --> 00:39:52,100
It was impossible to keep up
with how fast it was growing.
587
00:39:55,110 --> 00:39:57,510
- Not only across cities,
but across continents.
588
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,960
- Camarilla Fan Club
organized LARPS regularly.
589
00:40:04,830 --> 00:40:07,260
In Europe, it reached
millions of people.
590
00:40:17,170 --> 00:40:19,249
- Vampire became
more than a game.
591
00:40:19,250 --> 00:40:23,349
It became a culture, a
culture that opened doors to
592
00:40:23,350 --> 00:40:26,798
different kinds of people
with different ideas,
593
00:40:26,799 --> 00:40:29,470
but we were all joined
by this common interest.
594
00:40:33,290 --> 00:40:35,699
- What I loved about
the Vampire culture
595
00:40:35,700 --> 00:40:38,459
was it didn't matter
what gender you were.
596
00:40:38,460 --> 00:40:40,769
It didn't matter
what color you were.
597
00:40:40,770 --> 00:40:44,419
It didn't matter what ethnic
background or cultural
598
00:40:44,420 --> 00:40:45,619
background you came from.
599
00:40:45,620 --> 00:40:46,820
They were all a vampire.
600
00:40:48,879 --> 00:40:51,979
- I remember reading many
Dungeons and Dragons books
601
00:40:51,980 --> 00:40:54,340
and I'd see a black person.
602
00:40:57,810 --> 00:40:59,730
World of Darkness was different.
603
00:41:01,510 --> 00:41:03,953
- What I find really cool
about Vampire the Masquerade
604
00:41:03,954 --> 00:41:06,559
is that it created that
foundation of equality.
605
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,209
- I had the community finally
606
00:41:09,210 --> 00:41:12,419
that accepted me for what
I am and allowed me to be
607
00:41:12,420 --> 00:41:13,510
what I wanna be.
608
00:41:21,190 --> 00:41:24,639
- I have always
been outta place.
609
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,659
I never really fit in.
610
00:41:26,660 --> 00:41:29,929
I was a gamer, Dungeons &
Dragons and stuff like that
611
00:41:29,930 --> 00:41:34,930
and a friend of mine got me
into Vampire back in '93.
612
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:42,119
About two years after that,
we start getting to LARP,
613
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,469
which was recently
released at that time
614
00:41:44,470 --> 00:41:49,290
and we became the first
Camarilla based Vampire group
615
00:41:49,300 --> 00:41:50,300
in San Diego.
616
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,579
A lot of my close friends who
I'm still friends with now,
617
00:41:57,580 --> 00:41:59,290
we started off in
a Vampire LARP.
618
00:42:02,300 --> 00:42:05,560
I like dressing up
like a monster.
619
00:42:06,530 --> 00:42:09,389
It gives me more of
this sort of feel,
620
00:42:09,390 --> 00:42:12,799
ya know, not like many
people and I can be myself
621
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,390
'cause this is basically me.
622
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,788
I realized that my
friends were more family
623
00:42:27,789 --> 00:42:30,410
than anybody else.
624
00:42:31,290 --> 00:42:32,590
I'm much happier that way.
625
00:42:37,483 --> 00:42:40,510
- Here it is, the
White Wolf bus.
626
00:42:41,850 --> 00:42:44,170
Woo, now they wanna
film this road.
627
00:42:45,540 --> 00:42:47,449
Oh, that's scary.
628
00:42:47,450 --> 00:42:50,490
- Frankly, anywhere we went,
there was a very different
629
00:42:50,500 --> 00:42:53,115
kind of fan that was around
the White Wolf booth
630
00:42:53,116 --> 00:42:56,746
holding our games than
you saw anywhere else
631
00:42:56,747 --> 00:42:58,790
in the convention hall.
632
00:43:00,373 --> 00:43:03,390
- You know, when you're
at a RPG convention,
633
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,329
you're talking about Magic
and you're talking about
634
00:43:05,330 --> 00:43:07,579
ya know, knights
hitting each other
635
00:43:07,580 --> 00:43:10,430
and none of that is what the
World of Darkness was about.
636
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,340
- Going into a gaming
environment was a boy's club.
637
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,516
Vampire the Masquerade
wasn't a boy's club.
638
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:29,339
- I have people to this day
come up to me and say,
639
00:43:29,340 --> 00:43:32,559
"Man, I remember that Gen
Con after you came out"
640
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:36,520
"with Vampire, suddenly, there
were women at Gen Con!"
641
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,419
- It became inviting to
girls because here were
642
00:43:43,420 --> 00:43:46,410
suddenly games that were
about stories and characters
643
00:43:46,411 --> 00:43:48,540
and relationships.
644
00:43:50,730 --> 00:43:53,569
- They would come to the
convention and go to no one else's
645
00:43:53,570 --> 00:43:55,390
booth except our booth.
646
00:43:57,140 --> 00:44:00,179
- Having almost a 50% ratio
of women was unheard of
647
00:44:00,180 --> 00:44:01,590
in the role playing scene.
648
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:08,969
- It was big business
at this point.
649
00:44:08,970 --> 00:44:10,720
It was a serious
competitor to D&D.
650
00:44:11,870 --> 00:44:14,479
They had a goofy
cartoon in the 80's.
651
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:19,990
All of the sudden, we've got
like prime time FOX show
652
00:44:19,100 --> 00:44:21,240
that's just coming out
after the X-Files.
653
00:44:26,290 --> 00:44:28,149
- I got a call, this
guy, and he said,
654
00:44:28,150 --> 00:44:30,509
"I'm so and so from the
Creative Artist Agency."
655
00:44:30,510 --> 00:44:33,690
"We're the agency that does
everything in Hollywood."
656
00:44:34,996 --> 00:44:37,290
I invite Mark into
the office and say,
657
00:44:37,300 --> 00:44:38,529
"Hey Mark, what do
you, this message,"
658
00:44:38,530 --> 00:44:40,179
"what do you think we
should do with this?"
659
00:44:40,180 --> 00:44:42,859
He just goes running screaming
through the office.
660
00:44:42,860 --> 00:44:45,571
"CAA called, they
called, they called!"
661
00:44:48,650 --> 00:44:53,638
- This is what the Prolog Clan
will do to all you Gangles!
662
00:44:56,430 --> 00:44:57,634
- The thing about
it was that it was
663
00:44:57,635 --> 00:45:00,228
an Aaron Spelling show.
664
00:45:00,229 --> 00:45:02,360
Strike number one.
665
00:45:04,948 --> 00:45:06,898
- You Gangles are
cruising for broo-ha.
666
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:10,399
You chose the wrong place.
667
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,359
- So, Mark moved out
there on the west coast
668
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,219
and they were putting together
the film deal with Spelling.
669
00:45:15,220 --> 00:45:18,349
- Everywhere I could, I'd
try to manipulate it to be
670
00:45:18,350 --> 00:45:22,170
a better show than
Spelling wanted to be.
671
00:45:23,875 --> 00:45:24,875
- Alexandra!
672
00:45:26,406 --> 00:45:29,399
- He got his sticky
old hands all over it
673
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,170
and just made it slop.
674
00:45:32,514 --> 00:45:33,649
- Alexandra!
675
00:45:33,650 --> 00:45:35,909
- It was still Vampire
the Masquerade,
676
00:45:35,910 --> 00:45:37,689
ya know, Crescent
City, the whole game,
677
00:45:37,690 --> 00:45:38,969
but I was really turned
off by the show.
678
00:45:38,970 --> 00:45:41,283
I couldn't even watch
all the episodes.
679
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,489
- At that time, one of
the big controversies
680
00:45:55,490 --> 00:45:58,850
that came up for White Wolf
was a guy named Rod Ferrell.
681
00:46:00,774 --> 00:46:03,649
- You cut yourself,
let them drink it.
682
00:46:03,650 --> 00:46:06,219
It runs through their
veins for a few moments.
683
00:46:06,220 --> 00:46:07,980
Then, your blood
becomes tainted.
684
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:13,900
- He murdered people in a
sort of cult-like fashion.
685
00:46:13,100 --> 00:46:15,369
- Prosecutors plan to
seek the death penalty
686
00:46:15,370 --> 00:46:16,920
against Rod Ferrell.
687
00:46:18,500 --> 00:46:20,306
- We were like,
"Oh, we're fucked."
688
00:46:29,230 --> 00:46:31,469
- The fact is, it was a
whole vampire culture.
689
00:46:31,470 --> 00:46:34,995
People who wanted to dress
like vampires, drink blood
690
00:46:34,996 --> 00:46:37,457
and generally behave
like vampires.
691
00:46:37,458 --> 00:46:40,770
Clearly, that caused a
lot of consternation.
692
00:46:42,370 --> 00:46:44,389
- Had church leaders
speaking out against us,
693
00:46:44,390 --> 00:46:46,490
political figures
speaking out against us.
694
00:46:47,370 --> 00:46:50,990
- Was so absurd, the
accusations from the media
695
00:46:50,100 --> 00:46:53,137
and from the state
was so ridiculous.
696
00:47:04,910 --> 00:47:07,296
- Horror has always
been a problem for
697
00:47:07,297 --> 00:47:10,199
religious groups
because clearly,
698
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:14,159
all of the horror creatures exist
outside of God's universe.
699
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:15,599
They're not God's creatures.
700
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:16,999
God didn't make werewolves.
701
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,319
God didn't make vampires
and it was clearly a thing
702
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,620
that people found
very disturbing.
703
00:47:23,950 --> 00:47:26,419
- For the murder of
Richard Wendell, you are
704
00:47:26,420 --> 00:47:27,910
hereby sentenced to death.
705
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:31,400
- We had nothing to do with him.
706
00:47:31,401 --> 00:47:33,550
He didn't even, by all
accounts, play our games.
707
00:47:36,850 --> 00:47:39,490
That point, there was a
number of internal struggles
708
00:47:39,500 --> 00:47:41,359
between the development
team in Atlanta
709
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,690
that was making the
games and Mark.
710
00:47:46,180 --> 00:47:49,289
- Mark had moved to California
to open White Wolf West
711
00:47:49,290 --> 00:47:52,209
and he was frequently in
conflict with some of the more
712
00:47:52,210 --> 00:47:56,529
traditional business-minded
people at the office
713
00:47:56,530 --> 00:48:00,119
and there were also
people who felt like
714
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:02,789
that west coast office
was just bleeding money
715
00:48:02,790 --> 00:48:04,640
and they weren't
generating anything.
716
00:48:05,750 --> 00:48:08,529
- One memory I have is that
I had just gotten back from
717
00:48:08,530 --> 00:48:11,469
Germany and this amazing trip
718
00:48:11,470 --> 00:48:15,769
and I just ran three LARPs and
I come back to White Wolf
719
00:48:15,770 --> 00:48:17,969
straight from the airport,
no one has any idea
720
00:48:17,970 --> 00:48:21,369
how exhausted I am or
how little I slept
721
00:48:21,370 --> 00:48:25,490
and I come in the warehouse
and the entire company,
722
00:48:25,500 --> 00:48:27,259
they all give me this look.
723
00:48:27,260 --> 00:48:29,310
Like, "You fuckin' asshole."
724
00:48:32,402 --> 00:48:35,469
- The late 90's, the
entire table top industry
725
00:48:35,470 --> 00:48:37,370
was going through a
fundamental shift.
726
00:48:39,302 --> 00:48:42,589
The entire publishing trade
was being massively disrupted
727
00:48:42,590 --> 00:48:44,600
by digital entertainment.
728
00:48:45,270 --> 00:48:48,619
- The same problems the book
industry led to our main
729
00:48:48,620 --> 00:48:52,101
competitor, TSR, who ran Dungeons
& Dragons going bankrupt
730
00:48:52,102 --> 00:48:55,290
and it nearly bankrupted us.
731
00:48:55,300 --> 00:48:59,690
We had layoffs, which
it was a hard time
732
00:48:59,700 --> 00:49:02,369
and so, in the middle
of this atmosphere of
733
00:49:02,370 --> 00:49:07,369
hardship for the company,
the west coast office
734
00:49:07,370 --> 00:49:10,740
became a more difficult
thing to keep going.
735
00:49:13,780 --> 00:49:15,729
- I just thought that
you wouldn't wanna
736
00:49:15,730 --> 00:49:17,709
get rid of the creator.
737
00:49:17,710 --> 00:49:19,949
But ya know, what
I didn't realize,
738
00:49:19,950 --> 00:49:22,880
the entire company would wanna
get rid of the creator.
739
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:28,229
Made me feel like shit.
740
00:49:28,230 --> 00:49:29,299
I mean, I hate that.
741
00:49:29,300 --> 00:49:31,729
As much as I'm
always the outsider,
742
00:49:31,730 --> 00:49:36,120
as much as I'm always the
guy who is not loved,
743
00:49:37,240 --> 00:49:39,500
ya know, it destroyed me.
744
00:49:55,526 --> 00:49:58,719
- In 1998, White Wolf
Publishing as a company
745
00:49:58,720 --> 00:50:02,749
was struggling, which is ironic
because at the same time,
746
00:50:02,750 --> 00:50:05,689
Vampire media and
entertainment was booming.
747
00:50:05,690 --> 00:50:08,869
You had Buffy, you had
From Dusk Til Dawn.
748
00:50:08,870 --> 00:50:11,489
And a lot of what you
saw in those shows
749
00:50:11,490 --> 00:50:13,990
were influenced directly
by the World of Darkness.
750
00:50:17,100 --> 00:50:21,179
- One of the great untold stories
about early 21st century
751
00:50:21,180 --> 00:50:24,249
popular culture is really
how much World of Darkness
752
00:50:24,250 --> 00:50:26,700
influenced the resurgence
of vampire culture.
753
00:50:28,322 --> 00:50:29,900
- You better wake up.
754
00:50:30,816 --> 00:50:33,430
The world you live in is
just a sugar coated type.
755
00:50:34,851 --> 00:50:37,329
There is another
world beneath it.
756
00:50:37,330 --> 00:50:39,119
- Blade came out in 1998.
757
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:40,920
That was basically
based on Vampire.
758
00:50:44,130 --> 00:50:49,130
- Blade definitely was Vampire
the Masquerade on steroids.
759
00:50:49,303 --> 00:50:50,500
- Blade.
760
00:50:51,973 --> 00:50:54,919
- I thought the trailers
looked so fuckin' awesome,
761
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:55,969
ya know?
762
00:50:55,970 --> 00:50:57,849
I was excited to see the movie.
763
00:50:57,850 --> 00:50:58,820
- That's him!
764
00:50:58,820 --> 00:50:59,653
Get him, fuck him up!
765
00:50:59,654 --> 00:51:02,149
- It didn't occur to me until
I was watching the movie
766
00:51:02,150 --> 00:51:04,198
and I'm like, "Oh, wow!"
767
00:51:07,351 --> 00:51:09,979
That looks like a thing
that I did, ya know?
768
00:51:09,980 --> 00:51:12,869
It was just where he stops
at the end of that scene
769
00:51:12,870 --> 00:51:16,385
where he shh, then
there's Blade.
770
00:51:18,278 --> 00:51:20,100
It was almost the
exact same pose.
771
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,149
A couple years later, I
talked to the writer
772
00:51:25,150 --> 00:51:26,479
of the first movie.
773
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:28,790
He's sitting next
to me and he says,
774
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:30,689
"Ya know, on Blade one, dude,"
775
00:51:30,690 --> 00:51:32,829
"we totally had your art books."
776
00:51:32,830 --> 00:51:34,329
I'm like, "You're kidding!"
777
00:51:34,330 --> 00:51:35,330
Really?
778
00:51:36,311 --> 00:51:39,290
He goes, "Yeah, yeah,
we had your portfolio",
779
00:51:39,300 --> 00:51:40,129
"your vampire portfolio."
780
00:51:40,130 --> 00:51:41,317
"We had your art book."
781
00:51:41,318 --> 00:51:45,669
I was like, "So, you
just borrowed my stuff"
782
00:51:45,670 --> 00:51:47,129
"and you didn't
hire me for that."
783
00:51:47,130 --> 00:51:48,270
He's like, "Oh."
784
00:51:51,940 --> 00:51:54,199
I mean, Blade was a character
before Vampire, of course,
785
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,839
but when did Blade start
to look really badass
786
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:59,239
and take the safari jacket off
787
00:51:59,240 --> 00:52:00,340
and the green goggles?
788
00:52:01,690 --> 00:52:02,690
I rest my case.
789
00:52:04,810 --> 00:52:06,639
A little while later,
I get a phone call
790
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:07,980
from Guillermo Del Toro.
791
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:10,979
I was like, "You're
Guillermo, aren't you?"
792
00:52:10,980 --> 00:52:12,539
He's like, "Yeah."
793
00:52:12,540 --> 00:52:15,290
He goes, "Listen, we're gonna
work together right now."
794
00:52:15,300 --> 00:52:16,369
I was like, "Right now,
what do you mean?"
795
00:52:16,370 --> 00:52:19,200
He goes, "I've got a
film, it's Blade 2."
796
00:52:19,970 --> 00:52:21,319
I was like, "Oh, really?"
797
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,840
He goes, "I'm gonna make sure
you get paid this time."
798
00:52:24,850 --> 00:52:25,850
Ha!
799
00:52:42,570 --> 00:52:45,890
- I would say after
that, it, I think,
800
00:52:45,900 --> 00:52:46,480
became very problematic
801
00:52:47,740 --> 00:52:51,309
because after that, White
Wolf, in a very real sense,
802
00:52:51,310 --> 00:52:53,710
in a very legal sense went
to war with the club.
803
00:52:59,990 --> 00:53:04,229
- White Wolf, the sort of
rock and roll cultural mavens
804
00:53:04,230 --> 00:53:07,159
of the last decade now became
the guys that had lawyers
805
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:10,670
and suits in a lawsuit
with their fans.
806
00:53:12,110 --> 00:53:16,350
- When the lawsuit happened,
the community was shattered.
807
00:53:19,100 --> 00:53:21,959
- Even though White
Wolf won that lawsuit,
808
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:24,330
they really lost the
court of public opinion.
809
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:28,300
That was the end of the
Camarilla as we knew it.
810
00:53:29,270 --> 00:53:30,920
Some people were
very hurt by it.
811
00:53:34,670 --> 00:53:38,109
- The response to that is
you started to see sales
812
00:53:38,110 --> 00:53:40,110
just drop and sort of go away.
813
00:53:41,310 --> 00:53:43,449
- I saw the sales had gone down.
814
00:53:43,450 --> 00:53:45,989
I have friends who run
these game stores.
815
00:53:45,990 --> 00:53:49,139
I said, "I'm not selling
Vampire as much any more."
816
00:53:49,140 --> 00:53:54,140
- We were used to selling tens
of thousands of something
817
00:53:54,250 --> 00:53:56,190
and now, we're
selling thousands.
818
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,119
- We knew that we made a game
that was popular in the 90s.
819
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:05,309
We also knew that role
playing games, overall,
820
00:54:05,310 --> 00:54:08,769
were declining, but what we
didn't know at the time was,
821
00:54:08,770 --> 00:54:10,755
was it us or was it them?
822
00:54:10,756 --> 00:54:14,969
Was it a product problem or
was it a market problem?
823
00:54:14,970 --> 00:54:16,879
- At this point, we
had hundreds of books
824
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:18,699
around Vampire the
Masquerade and we felt like
825
00:54:18,700 --> 00:54:21,769
we had explored so many
of the topics that were
826
00:54:21,770 --> 00:54:23,649
there to explore that we
were starting to move into
827
00:54:23,650 --> 00:54:27,489
minutia that only applied
to a small group of people.
828
00:54:27,490 --> 00:54:31,749
- There was so much vampire
stuff that we had created,
829
00:54:31,750 --> 00:54:36,489
this world was so
rich, so developed,
830
00:54:36,490 --> 00:54:40,389
like new players were
just too intimidated by
831
00:54:40,390 --> 00:54:42,100
I have to know what.
832
00:54:45,610 --> 00:54:49,229
We decided we needed to
restart and I think then,
833
00:54:49,230 --> 00:54:53,890
we decided the best way to do
that was to sort of fulfill
834
00:54:53,900 --> 00:54:55,669
this inherent promise
that we'd made
835
00:54:55,670 --> 00:54:56,870
from the very beginning.
836
00:54:57,810 --> 00:55:01,599
For a 1991 ya know,
the advertising is,
837
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:02,800
Gehenna is coming.
838
00:55:09,648 --> 00:55:11,410
- Gehenna is coming soon.
839
00:55:13,900 --> 00:55:16,609
- From 1991 on, we had said
in our books at some point,
840
00:55:16,610 --> 00:55:20,259
the elder vampires will wake
up and they will be hungry
841
00:55:20,260 --> 00:55:24,349
and it will fundamentally
change the very existence
842
00:55:24,350 --> 00:55:27,325
and the nature of what it
means to be a vampire.
843
00:55:27,326 --> 00:55:30,161
- The world will turn cold
844
00:55:30,162 --> 00:55:32,799
and unclean things will
rise up from the earth
845
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:36,305
and storms will roll,
lightning will light fires,
846
00:55:36,306 --> 00:55:40,240
boils will fester and their
bodies, twisting, will fall.
847
00:55:42,190 --> 00:55:45,180
- It was the vampire apocalypse,
we called it, Gehenna.
848
00:55:46,927 --> 00:55:49,594
- The you will know, it is time.
849
00:55:51,363 --> 00:55:53,863
Gehenna will soon be upon you.
850
00:55:58,100 --> 00:56:00,119
- People in the
industry were like,
851
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:02,869
"Whoa you guys, that's radical."
852
00:56:02,870 --> 00:56:04,849
You're insane. - Insane.
853
00:56:04,850 --> 00:56:08,739
- You're taking one of
those popular products
854
00:56:08,740 --> 00:56:12,650
in the marketplace and you're
just gonna stop doing it?
855
00:56:36,290 --> 00:56:38,469
- When I started playing
World of Darkness,
856
00:56:38,470 --> 00:56:41,399
my mom had gotten very sick
857
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:46,351
and I ya know, had a lot
of feelings about that
858
00:56:46,352 --> 00:56:49,792
that I didn't really
talk to people about.
859
00:56:49,793 --> 00:56:54,793
So, getting to play a character
that maybe acted out
860
00:56:55,190 --> 00:56:58,789
or do stuff was a really
great way of taking
861
00:56:58,790 --> 00:57:03,790
all of that emotional stuff and
putting it into something.
862
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:14,690
The first time I went,
go into the room,
863
00:57:14,700 --> 00:57:17,659
have a basic costume,
nothing really super cool
864
00:57:17,660 --> 00:57:20,529
and I walk in and I
see all these people
865
00:57:20,530 --> 00:57:23,900
and they're engaged
and doing stuff.
866
00:57:23,100 --> 00:57:24,189
I chickened out.
867
00:57:24,190 --> 00:57:25,940
I turn around and I
walk right back out.
868
00:57:27,794 --> 00:57:30,840
I didn't say anything
for like 30 minutes.
869
00:57:32,230 --> 00:57:34,389
Then, people started
talking to me and I was
870
00:57:34,390 --> 00:57:36,259
responding in character,
then all of a sudden,
871
00:57:36,260 --> 00:57:37,340
I was just doing it.
872
00:57:38,850 --> 00:57:40,450
I felt exhilaration.
873
00:57:41,490 --> 00:57:44,399
It was awesome, it
was very thrilling.
874
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:45,760
It was scary too.
875
00:57:47,430 --> 00:57:48,869
It's intense and it requires
876
00:57:48,870 --> 00:57:50,640
a lot of social skills actually.
877
00:57:52,820 --> 00:57:56,889
I learned so much about
what I can do as a person,
878
00:57:56,890 --> 00:57:59,109
being able to play all
these different roles
879
00:57:59,110 --> 00:58:01,430
and I learned a lot
about other people too.
880
00:58:03,620 --> 00:58:06,859
The World of Darkness
and the LARP community
881
00:58:06,860 --> 00:58:08,240
is very close knit.
882
00:58:10,350 --> 00:58:12,779
For me, what is cool
is involving people,
883
00:58:12,780 --> 00:58:15,520
telling really great
stories and making it fun.
884
00:58:21,410 --> 00:58:23,680
- The war itself had
become more perilous.
885
00:58:26,510 --> 00:58:27,780
The weapons had evolved.
886
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:31,429
- With all the upheaval that
was going on at the time,
887
00:58:31,430 --> 00:58:33,909
the last thing that
White Wolf needed was
888
00:58:33,910 --> 00:58:35,909
yet another legal battle.
889
00:58:35,910 --> 00:58:36,860
- Who are you people?
890
00:58:36,861 --> 00:58:37,899
- You're in the middle
of a war that's been
891
00:58:37,900 --> 00:58:39,939
raging for the better
part of 1,000 years,
892
00:58:39,940 --> 00:58:42,964
a blood feud between
vampires and lichens.
893
00:58:42,965 --> 00:58:44,959
Werewolves.
894
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:46,809
- When I saw
Underworld, I thought,
895
00:58:46,810 --> 00:58:48,669
"They must have
contacted White Wolf"
896
00:58:48,670 --> 00:58:50,689
"and done this movie in
association with them."
897
00:58:50,690 --> 00:58:52,339
"I thought it was that close."
898
00:58:52,340 --> 00:58:54,975
- They essentially make a
World of Darkness movie
899
00:58:54,976 --> 00:58:56,709
just straight up.
900
00:58:56,710 --> 00:58:59,999
- The chain has never
been broken, not once,
901
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:02,389
not in 14 centuries,
902
00:59:02,390 --> 00:59:06,869
not since we elders first began
to leap frog through time.
903
00:59:06,870 --> 00:59:10,439
- There's cases where we
felt movies or other works
904
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:12,280
had taken too much
of our material
905
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:16,329
and Underworld was a
good example of that.
906
00:59:16,330 --> 00:59:17,330
- Ah yes,
907
00:59:18,945 --> 00:59:20,490
the lichen.
908
00:59:20,500 --> 00:59:22,919
- Underworld is a washed
down version of Masquerade.
909
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:24,899
The whole vampire
verse werewolf thing
910
00:59:24,900 --> 00:59:27,137
came from the World of Darkness.
911
00:59:32,510 --> 00:59:34,829
- We had a protracted
legal fight but,
912
00:59:34,830 --> 00:59:38,127
we reached a satisfactory
settlement on it
913
00:59:38,128 --> 00:59:40,900
and the settlement
allowed them to
914
00:59:40,100 --> 00:59:41,826
continue making the movies.
915
00:59:41,827 --> 00:59:44,349
- That was the only time
that we were acknowledged.
916
00:59:44,350 --> 00:59:46,660
The rest of the time,
we were just copied.
917
00:59:47,620 --> 00:59:51,779
- 2006 to 2008, you saw
that the Twilight novels,
918
00:59:51,780 --> 00:59:54,208
the Sookie Stackhouse,
Charlaine Harris books,
919
00:59:54,209 --> 00:59:58,900
those were very clearly
influenced by World of Darkness.
920
00:59:58,901 --> 01:00:02,370
♪ When you came in,
the air went out ♪
921
01:00:02,371 --> 01:00:05,369
- I think the greatest copy
of Vampire the Masquerade
922
01:00:05,370 --> 01:00:06,370
was True Blood.
923
01:00:08,210 --> 01:00:10,359
- Anybody that saw True
Blood first season
924
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:11,639
thought that same thing.
925
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:13,619
They knew about Vampire.
926
01:00:13,620 --> 01:00:16,249
They went, "Is this the
new Vampire show?"
927
01:00:16,250 --> 01:00:17,749
"Is this a new White Wolf show?"
928
01:00:17,750 --> 01:00:19,719
- The first vampire was Cain.
929
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:21,519
Being a vampire is
the mark of Cain.
930
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:23,729
It's God's punishment
for bringing...
931
01:00:23,730 --> 01:00:26,689
- The True Blood TV series,
they actually talk about Cain.
932
01:00:26,690 --> 01:00:28,969
The first vampire, I
mean, that was sort of
933
01:00:28,970 --> 01:00:31,259
a defining point of our myth.
934
01:00:31,260 --> 01:00:34,349
- Your majesty, you've had
me abducted by werewolves.
935
01:00:34,350 --> 01:00:36,269
- They had kings of
different cities.
936
01:00:36,270 --> 01:00:37,669
We had princes.
937
01:00:37,670 --> 01:00:39,456
They had sheriffs,
we had sheriffs.
938
01:00:39,457 --> 01:00:41,899
- Listen, Bill was
in fact kidnapped
939
01:00:41,900 --> 01:00:44,290
by human or vampire.
940
01:00:44,300 --> 01:00:45,989
I am duty bound as
sheriff of the area
941
01:00:45,990 --> 01:00:47,590
in which he resides to find him.
942
01:00:49,250 --> 01:00:51,509
- It had gotten to a point where
there weren't even really
943
01:00:51,510 --> 01:00:54,865
pretending not to copy
our stuff any more.
944
01:01:00,690 --> 01:01:04,429
- In 2004, we relaunched
the World of Darkness
945
01:01:04,430 --> 01:01:07,459
in what a lot of players call
the new World of Darkness.
946
01:01:07,460 --> 01:01:08,889
It wasn't Vampire
the Masquerade.
947
01:01:08,890 --> 01:01:10,819
It was Vampire the Requiem.
948
01:01:10,820 --> 01:01:14,414
- There was a lot of excitement
looking forward to it,
949
01:01:14,415 --> 01:01:15,489
to it coming.
950
01:01:15,490 --> 01:01:19,829
- I was excited to see a
reinvention of this world
951
01:01:19,830 --> 01:01:21,400
that I'd grown to love.
952
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:28,879
When I received the book, I
started paging through it
953
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:31,560
and did not speak to me at all.
954
01:01:33,300 --> 01:01:38,300
- Requiem emphasized lust
story and more rules
955
01:01:38,510 --> 01:01:39,780
and procedure.
956
01:01:42,150 --> 01:01:44,989
- Vampire became
more gaming oriented
957
01:01:44,990 --> 01:01:48,640
and rules monitoring than role
playing and storytelling.
958
01:01:49,590 --> 01:01:51,419
- That was a big departure
for a lot of people.
959
01:01:51,420 --> 01:01:53,649
Tim Bradstreet wasn't
doing the art.
960
01:01:53,650 --> 01:01:56,150
The art was very
comic book style.
961
01:01:57,417 --> 01:01:59,959
- If you look at
Requiem more closely
962
01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:02,139
and if you look at the
nuts and bolt of it,
963
01:02:02,140 --> 01:02:03,590
there is this huge change.
964
01:02:05,740 --> 01:02:07,710
It can be played to win.
965
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:12,449
- When Vampire Requiem
had come out,
966
01:02:12,450 --> 01:02:14,976
all of the people that I
was playing the LARP with
967
01:02:14,977 --> 01:02:16,477
were like, "What?"
968
01:02:18,877 --> 01:02:21,729
- To me, Requiem was
another role playing game
969
01:02:21,730 --> 01:02:25,859
and I love role playing games,
but it didn't speak to me
970
01:02:25,860 --> 01:02:27,210
like Masquerade did.
971
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:36,239
- We sold more books
with that launch
972
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:39,789
than we had ever sold
before on any other launch.
973
01:02:39,790 --> 01:02:44,790
100,000 units, which for 2004
974
01:02:44,972 --> 01:02:46,960
in the role playing
game industry,
975
01:02:47,838 --> 01:02:49,349
might as well have
parted the Red Sea.
976
01:02:49,350 --> 01:02:50,870
It was an incredible launch.
977
01:02:54,420 --> 01:02:57,199
- While they sold a
lot of the core book,
978
01:02:57,200 --> 01:02:59,509
what was very telling is
they didn't sell much
979
01:02:59,510 --> 01:03:02,500
of it's companion books.
980
01:03:02,510 --> 01:03:04,960
- White Wolf with a new game,
981
01:03:04,961 --> 01:03:06,859
who wasn't going
to buy that book?
982
01:03:06,860 --> 01:03:08,699
Everyone was going
to buy that book,
983
01:03:08,700 --> 01:03:10,330
but after that first book,
984
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:16,629
I saw people were not as
interested and I thought,
985
01:03:16,630 --> 01:03:20,110
"Oh my goodness, maybe White
Wolf just committed suicide."
986
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:24,349
- What do you do in a
situation like this?
987
01:03:24,350 --> 01:03:26,509
You have fans who love the
traditional World of Darkness
988
01:03:26,510 --> 01:03:28,949
but they're not buying
the game any more.
989
01:03:28,950 --> 01:03:31,339
You tend to launch a
brand new version of it
990
01:03:31,340 --> 01:03:32,824
and no one's buying it.
991
01:03:48,910 --> 01:03:50,670
- Know any games we can play?
992
01:03:53,310 --> 01:03:56,299
- One of the reasons that
we weren't resonating
993
01:03:56,300 --> 01:03:59,829
with the youth of the role
playing game industry
994
01:03:59,830 --> 01:04:02,469
is because the youth
weren't in this market.
995
01:04:02,470 --> 01:04:03,970
They had found another market.
996
01:04:08,670 --> 01:04:10,999
- Book publishing was dying.
997
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:13,129
It was clear everything
was moving electronic
998
01:04:13,130 --> 01:04:16,439
and we were trying to
basically create a property
999
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:18,242
that would be exciting again.
1000
01:04:20,770 --> 01:04:25,990
- Bloodlines truly captured
the sense of story
1001
01:04:25,100 --> 01:04:27,987
from the role playing game
and the live action game.
1002
01:04:27,988 --> 01:04:32,179
It was a new way to play
something that we were already
1003
01:04:32,180 --> 01:04:33,580
enthusiastic about.
1004
01:04:35,210 --> 01:04:38,659
- Bloodlines is a game that
was put out by Activision
1005
01:04:38,660 --> 01:04:40,769
and we were all excited
about the potential.
1006
01:04:40,770 --> 01:04:44,659
So, we felt like we
needed to get into being
1007
01:04:44,660 --> 01:04:46,493
our own development studio.
1008
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:50,800
- That's when CCP steps
into the picture.
1009
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:58,590
- The idea of EVE was that
we would create a world
1010
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:01,249
with rules and that the
players inside that world
1011
01:05:01,250 --> 01:05:03,440
would then create the game.
1012
01:05:04,385 --> 01:05:06,709
- Don't tell me what
you're looting.
1013
01:05:06,710 --> 01:05:08,299
I don't wanna know until after.
1014
01:05:08,300 --> 01:05:10,540
- The game is about people
interacting with other people.
1015
01:05:11,251 --> 01:05:13,166
- Shut up.
1016
01:05:13,167 --> 01:05:17,449
- EVE Online is a massive,
multiplayer online game
1017
01:05:17,450 --> 01:05:21,559
which you play by logging onto
an online server somewhere
1018
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:23,399
and you start playing
it together with
1019
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:25,349
a lot of other people.
1020
01:05:25,350 --> 01:05:28,590
- Felt like a perfect fit because
what they were doing was
1021
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:30,269
completely based around
stories that were driven
1022
01:05:30,270 --> 01:05:32,969
by the community and
so, we felt like,
1023
01:05:32,970 --> 01:05:35,763
this is exactly
where we wanna be.
1024
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:45,419
- I met Hilmar for
the first time
1025
01:05:45,420 --> 01:05:46,690
at EVE three in 2006
1026
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:49,310
and at one point,
Helmar just says,
1027
01:05:50,770 --> 01:05:52,873
"Everybody keeps
talking to us about
1028
01:05:52,874 --> 01:05:55,999
"merging and working with
CCP, but it's like,"
1029
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:58,630
"they want to add Coca
Cola with Coca Cola."
1030
01:05:59,890 --> 01:06:01,409
"You're like a cheeseburger!"
1031
01:06:01,410 --> 01:06:02,990
"We would go great together!"
1032
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:08,229
- Here comes this odd
Icelandic company
1033
01:06:08,230 --> 01:06:10,249
that makes this
weird space game.
1034
01:06:10,250 --> 01:06:12,809
They sort of seem like the
great white hope, so to speak,
1035
01:06:12,810 --> 01:06:15,849
that they're gonna come
in and save everything
1036
01:06:15,850 --> 01:06:17,199
and make it awesome again,
1037
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:19,679
make it bigger and
better than ever.
1038
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:21,479
- You all know this guy.
1039
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:25,219
- For me, it was huge
because ya know,
1040
01:06:25,220 --> 01:06:28,289
it'd always been a thought
of World of Darkness.
1041
01:06:28,290 --> 01:06:31,389
I was really into revitalizing
a lot of the things
1042
01:06:31,390 --> 01:06:34,000
that were now struggling
at White Wolf.
1043
01:06:35,380 --> 01:06:37,789
- We went through the entire
merger and acquisition
1044
01:06:37,790 --> 01:06:41,149
process in four months.
1045
01:06:41,150 --> 01:06:43,759
It was like drinking
from a fire hose
1046
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:45,410
that was full of
Icelandic vodka.
1047
01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:03,165
- All of the hardcore fans
is like where is the stuff.
1048
01:07:03,166 --> 01:07:05,659
Here, have our money.
1049
01:07:05,660 --> 01:07:07,409
But nothing was
really happening,
1050
01:07:07,410 --> 01:07:09,620
so that was frustrating.
1051
01:07:18,390 --> 01:07:22,890
- This point, White Wolf's
community was a mess.
1052
01:07:22,900 --> 01:07:23,849
You got a lot of resentment.
1053
01:07:23,850 --> 01:07:26,149
There was these broken promises.
1054
01:07:26,150 --> 01:07:28,729
So, the idea was sort
of get em all together.
1055
01:07:28,730 --> 01:07:33,730
1300, 1400 fans of different fan
clubs all in the same room.
1056
01:07:40,930 --> 01:07:44,399
- So, we put something
together just for you guys.
1057
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:46,829
This was made to capture
the mood and the feel
1058
01:07:46,830 --> 01:07:48,599
that we're gonna try to pursue
1059
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:50,645
with the World of
Darkness in a month.
1060
01:07:55,180 --> 01:07:57,329
- You won't believe me.
1061
01:07:57,330 --> 01:07:59,479
In fact, I shouldn't tell you.
1062
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:01,910
Some secrets are best
taken to the grave.
1063
01:08:02,940 --> 01:08:04,649
They're all around us.
1064
01:08:04,650 --> 01:08:06,759
They control everything.
1065
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:08,600
They have always been here
1066
01:08:09,269 --> 01:08:10,690
waging their secret wars.
1067
01:08:12,180 --> 01:08:15,469
- The big question up to
that point was, ya know,
1068
01:08:15,470 --> 01:08:18,420
which version of the World of
Darkness are they gonna make?
1069
01:08:19,620 --> 01:08:21,159
- So, behind the scenes,
we've been working on it
1070
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:23,590
for three years
and we still have
1071
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:25,249
a very long way to go.
1072
01:08:25,250 --> 01:08:27,900
So, that brings me
to the announcement
1073
01:08:27,100 --> 01:08:28,979
that I know a lot of you
guys have been speculating
1074
01:08:28,980 --> 01:08:31,749
about for a long time, which is,
1075
01:08:31,750 --> 01:08:34,969
what version of what
White Wolf product
1076
01:08:34,970 --> 01:08:36,850
is this game gonna be based on?
1077
01:08:37,980 --> 01:08:39,190
The answer is...
1078
01:08:51,650 --> 01:08:53,700
- You thought you were
at a rock concert.
1079
01:08:54,550 --> 01:08:56,319
- That was the moment
when I realized,
1080
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:58,409
"Holy shit, they're
bringing it back."
1081
01:08:58,410 --> 01:08:59,610
"It's coming back."
1082
01:09:04,420 --> 01:09:08,916
- When they said that, I
felt role playing games
1083
01:09:08,917 --> 01:09:10,890
matter again to me.
1084
01:09:12,790 --> 01:09:15,269
- This was the
ultimate validating
1085
01:09:15,270 --> 01:09:17,359
holy shit moment.
1086
01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:19,190
We're going back
to what's awesome
1087
01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:21,890
and we're gonna spend
millions of dollars
1088
01:09:21,900 --> 01:09:24,861
on the franchise you
grew up with, you loved.
1089
01:09:24,862 --> 01:09:29,862
- It was terrifying and
exciting and cathartic.
1090
01:09:31,980 --> 01:09:35,299
We are gonna be able
to walk into a living,
1091
01:09:35,300 --> 01:09:40,300
breathing digital world and
it was going to be glorious.
1092
01:09:44,544 --> 01:09:45,899
- It was huge.
1093
01:09:45,900 --> 01:09:49,399
The level of excitement,
all the old grievances
1094
01:09:49,400 --> 01:09:51,190
sort of swept away.
1095
01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:53,429
We announced we were gonna
do this 20th anniversary
1096
01:09:53,430 --> 01:09:54,263
printed book.
1097
01:09:54,264 --> 01:09:56,460
Tim Bradstreet was gonna
come back and do the art.
1098
01:09:58,470 --> 01:10:01,939
- Doing V20, for me, it
was revisiting, ya know,
1099
01:10:01,940 --> 01:10:03,220
an ex-lover in a way.
1100
01:10:04,110 --> 01:10:07,109
Here we are, we're gonna
go down this road again
1101
01:10:07,110 --> 01:10:08,730
and it had been a while.
1102
01:10:10,100 --> 01:10:11,270
Felt great.
1103
01:10:13,590 --> 01:10:15,469
- People had gotten the
book back in their hands
1104
01:10:15,470 --> 01:10:16,789
the way they did originally.
1105
01:10:16,790 --> 01:10:20,280
They got to share stories and
reconnect with old friends.
1106
01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:23,149
- Even thought traditional
role playing games
1107
01:10:23,150 --> 01:10:25,554
were far less popular than
they had been in the 90s,
1108
01:10:25,555 --> 01:10:28,390
people who were fans were
still playing these games.
1109
01:10:29,429 --> 01:10:32,479
LARPing was super popular
all around the world
1110
01:10:32,480 --> 01:10:34,260
during that whole period.
1111
01:10:37,430 --> 01:10:40,739
- There was a community
aspect to playing this game
1112
01:10:40,740 --> 01:10:44,970
that really transcended
just fun and escapism.
1113
01:10:46,740 --> 01:10:48,919
- What's special about
role playing is that
1114
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:51,529
you have a very clear
purpose typically
1115
01:10:51,530 --> 01:10:54,539
and you, very often, have a
strong sense of belonging.
1116
01:10:54,540 --> 01:10:56,639
The characters are
very rarely isolated
1117
01:10:56,640 --> 01:10:58,740
and that can be quite
liberating, I think.
1118
01:11:01,340 --> 01:11:04,349
- Story telling is the
currency of human contact
1119
01:11:04,350 --> 01:11:07,329
and that is exactly at
the very heart of what
1120
01:11:07,330 --> 01:11:08,530
role playing is.
1121
01:11:09,430 --> 01:11:12,790
- Even if we don't necessarily
know we are called players,
1122
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:13,829
you do belong to this collective
1123
01:11:13,830 --> 01:11:17,539
and it has this sort of
transformational potential
1124
01:11:17,540 --> 01:11:18,560
for everybody.
1125
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:21,869
As you get so caught up in
the moment, that you forget
1126
01:11:21,870 --> 01:11:24,409
that you don't think you
have leadership skills
1127
01:11:24,410 --> 01:11:26,139
and you stand up and lead.
1128
01:11:26,140 --> 01:11:28,949
Then, after the event,
you're like, "Wait, what?"
1129
01:11:28,950 --> 01:11:30,669
"I was a leader?"
1130
01:11:30,670 --> 01:11:32,419
That's still something
that you did
1131
01:11:32,420 --> 01:11:37,100
and nobody can take
that away from you.
1132
01:11:42,815 --> 01:11:44,729
- Making video games
is really hard.
1133
01:11:44,730 --> 01:11:49,399
It's really hard
and making an MMO
1134
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:51,959
is even harder on top of
that because of the sheer
1135
01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:54,209
volume of systems and
scope of those systems
1136
01:11:54,210 --> 01:11:57,839
and players who need to be put
in contact with one another.
1137
01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:00,639
- We knew this, but it was
also kind of mock through
1138
01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:03,860
within CCP, we know it is
going to be incredibly hard.
1139
01:12:04,740 --> 01:12:07,339
But impossible is nothing.
1140
01:12:07,340 --> 01:12:09,300
We eat the impossible
for breakfast.
1141
01:12:10,140 --> 01:12:12,621
We did EVE and we're
gonna do this.
1142
01:12:22,477 --> 01:12:26,149
- In the MMO, a lot of what
the creative director wanted
1143
01:12:26,150 --> 01:12:29,739
was players to be able to
express themselves visually
1144
01:12:29,740 --> 01:12:32,219
and the idea here was the
players would be able to wear
1145
01:12:32,220 --> 01:12:33,399
whatever they wanted.
1146
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:35,839
So, visually, they could
create this look for them.
1147
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:38,890
So, we had multiple fashion
designers working at CCP.
1148
01:12:49,270 --> 01:12:51,369
- CCP approached
me to bring me on
1149
01:12:51,370 --> 01:12:55,350
as a designer because they
wanted to honor the tradition
1150
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:58,409
of World of Darkness
and it's aesthetic
1151
01:12:58,410 --> 01:13:01,581
but at the same time,
push it forward.
1152
01:13:03,630 --> 01:13:07,870
My aesthetic is very tribal
and has goth elements to it.
1153
01:13:09,210 --> 01:13:11,110
I gravitate towards a darkness.
1154
01:13:19,260 --> 01:13:22,529
I came on as the role of
Digital Fashion Editor
1155
01:13:22,530 --> 01:13:25,109
where I worked with a
team of illustrators
1156
01:13:25,110 --> 01:13:27,459
and we created
fashion collections
1157
01:13:27,460 --> 01:13:29,470
that represented
each of the clans.
1158
01:13:30,370 --> 01:13:32,900
I thought it was just
such an incredible world.
1159
01:13:46,300 --> 01:13:49,890
This was the first jacket
that has ever been created
1160
01:13:49,900 --> 01:13:52,689
digitally from an
actual fashion piece.
1161
01:13:52,690 --> 01:13:54,799
We took this jacket and
we put it into the.
1162
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:56,379
World of Darkness environment
1163
01:13:56,380 --> 01:14:00,139
where the characters were
able to wear the jacket
1164
01:14:00,140 --> 01:14:01,350
within the game setting.
1165
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:09,999
We were able to digitally
make everyone's fantasy
1166
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:13,790
and something that you would
dream of wearing in real life.
1167
01:15:00,884 --> 01:15:02,209
- I like to be complimented.
1168
01:15:02,210 --> 01:15:03,939
I like to be told
how awesome I am
1169
01:15:03,940 --> 01:15:05,870
and ya know, I'm cool.
1170
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:13,593
Yeah, it's always,
ever since I was a
1171
01:15:13,594 --> 01:15:17,769
really little kid,
it's always been about
1172
01:15:17,770 --> 01:15:19,150
putting on the costume.
1173
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:31,529
When I start to put
on the costume,
1174
01:15:31,530 --> 01:15:34,400
I start to kind of just
distance myself from myself.
1175
01:15:38,810 --> 01:15:42,169
It's always fascinating
when I realize
1176
01:15:42,170 --> 01:15:43,749
I can see the moment
when it's clicked,
1177
01:15:43,750 --> 01:15:47,619
that I've transitioned from
Caroline to the character.
1178
01:15:47,620 --> 01:15:52,160
Sometimes it's a very
noticeable click almost,
1179
01:15:53,150 --> 01:15:54,980
like switching the
channel on a TV.
1180
01:15:59,780 --> 01:16:04,780
With Requiem, I like to play
the more apologetic monster.
1181
01:16:05,200 --> 01:16:08,300
I don't necessarily
enjoy what I do,
1182
01:16:09,680 --> 01:16:10,900
but a girl's gotta eat.
1183
01:16:17,550 --> 01:16:22,149
With Masquerade, there is
so much more opportunities
1184
01:16:22,150 --> 01:16:26,890
for me to decide
that I'm a monster
1185
01:16:26,900 --> 01:16:27,800
and I feel good about it.
1186
01:16:29,940 --> 01:16:34,590
Some days, I want to
explore a part of me
1187
01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:37,109
that I might shy away
from or that I don't
1188
01:16:37,110 --> 01:16:40,539
quite understand why
I'm like that and LARP
1189
01:16:40,540 --> 01:16:43,139
gives me a cheaper
alternative to therapy
1190
01:16:43,140 --> 01:16:44,140
to explore myself.
1191
01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:54,990
- Role playing has a
long history of being
1192
01:16:54,100 --> 01:16:56,809
your self therapy
from I think it was
1193
01:16:56,810 --> 01:16:59,129
in the 20s or 30s where
it first started
1194
01:16:59,130 --> 01:17:03,900
in the sense of be your mother
as she leaves your father.
1195
01:17:03,100 --> 01:17:05,118
It's right around the
standard through that.
1196
01:17:05,119 --> 01:17:06,599
That's role playing.
1197
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:08,919
- There are therapeutic
methods that look a lot like
1198
01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:12,499
role playing and you
never know which thing,
1199
01:17:12,500 --> 01:17:15,699
which random moment in this LARP
1200
01:17:15,700 --> 01:17:18,518
or role playing game is going
to resonate with something
1201
01:17:18,519 --> 01:17:21,789
in your life, that suddenly,
something in your mind clicks
1202
01:17:21,790 --> 01:17:24,790
and you're like, "Hey, this
reminds me of that thing."
1203
01:17:24,800 --> 01:17:25,899
If you're not prepared for that,
1204
01:17:25,900 --> 01:17:28,328
then it can be a little scary.
1205
01:17:58,760 --> 01:18:03,329
- When you engage
something so deep,
1206
01:18:03,330 --> 01:18:08,330
so dark, so personal in that
intimate kind of a way,
1207
01:18:10,140 --> 01:18:13,270
you carry that with
you wherever you are.
1208
01:18:28,220 --> 01:18:31,299
- EVE was the economic engine
that drove the company.
1209
01:18:31,300 --> 01:18:34,699
CCP had raised capital to
develop two new projects,
1210
01:18:34,700 --> 01:18:37,299
DUST 514 in it's Shanghai office
1211
01:18:37,300 --> 01:18:39,550
and World of Darkness
in it's Atlanta office.
1212
01:18:41,271 --> 01:18:46,271
- The problem starts when EVE
starts to lose subscribers.
1213
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:49,432
Now, we're seeing a
trajectory where
1214
01:18:49,433 --> 01:18:51,829
it's not really going up.
1215
01:18:51,830 --> 01:18:54,479
It's just going down.
1216
01:18:54,480 --> 01:18:56,119
So, we're like whoa.
1217
01:18:56,120 --> 01:18:57,870
We need to do
something about this.
1218
01:18:59,270 --> 01:19:02,329
So basically, all teams
in all continents
1219
01:19:02,330 --> 01:19:03,610
go to work on EVE.
1220
01:19:04,930 --> 01:19:07,169
- CCP was a good
company to work for,
1221
01:19:07,170 --> 01:19:09,529
but once you sell something
to someone else,
1222
01:19:09,530 --> 01:19:10,780
it's theirs.
1223
01:19:12,490 --> 01:19:14,989
White Wolf was now
part of that company
1224
01:19:14,990 --> 01:19:19,760
and White Wolf needs were
subservient to CCPs at that point.
1225
01:19:21,950 --> 01:19:24,639
- All of the resources
we needed to make the.
1226
01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:27,509
World of Darkness MMO
were actually being
1227
01:19:27,510 --> 01:19:31,549
taken away from us and our
project was suffering for it.
1228
01:19:31,550 --> 01:19:33,319
- The following news that we got
1229
01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:36,839
was that workers at
White Wolf is fired.
1230
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:41,940
So we're like okay,
this is bad probably.
1231
01:19:45,770 --> 01:19:47,559
- You don't come back from that.
1232
01:19:47,560 --> 01:19:49,699
Yes, it took a few more
years for the project
1233
01:19:49,700 --> 01:19:53,270
to get shut down completely,
but that's the point where
1234
01:19:53,271 --> 01:19:55,749
the company, basically
the fans I think,
1235
01:19:55,750 --> 01:19:56,900
just didn't believe it.
1236
01:20:00,400 --> 01:20:03,480
- The decision comes
to shut it down.
1237
01:20:06,484 --> 01:20:08,650
Ya know, I'm part
of that decision.
1238
01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:13,700
There was only a second
who made that decision.
1239
01:20:18,231 --> 01:20:20,760
You could say I
killed it but, yeah.
1240
01:20:30,100 --> 01:20:31,919
- I felt a huge amount of
responsibility towards
1241
01:20:31,920 --> 01:20:33,659
the fans and I still do.
1242
01:20:33,660 --> 01:20:37,109
I mean, it made me feel
terrible to feel like
1243
01:20:37,110 --> 01:20:39,829
all these people had put
in so much effort and time
1244
01:20:39,830 --> 01:20:42,119
and belief and faith.
1245
01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:44,510
It made me feel terrible.
1246
01:20:49,700 --> 01:20:51,800
- They canceled the MMO,
1247
01:20:52,300 --> 01:20:55,330
it felt like, okay,
this is the end.
1248
01:21:16,488 --> 01:21:21,199
- In many ways, World of
Darkness helped some of us geeks
1249
01:21:21,200 --> 01:21:23,889
come to terms with
being who we were
1250
01:21:23,890 --> 01:21:25,490
and that hadn't happened before.
1251
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:30,249
- Created a complete
cultural movement.
1252
01:21:30,250 --> 01:21:32,849
It was something that
opened people's eyes
1253
01:21:32,850 --> 01:21:36,960
to being able to express yourself
in a whole different way.
1254
01:21:41,830 --> 01:21:43,119
- You know that feeling
you've had when you've
1255
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:45,970
walked out of certain movies
and you just feel different.
1256
01:21:47,530 --> 01:21:50,980
As an entity, it
exists in that way and
1257
01:21:53,970 --> 01:21:56,990
it's pretty special.
1258
01:21:56,100 --> 01:21:57,400
It's a very special thing.
1259
01:22:01,780 --> 01:22:04,719
- When you have somebody
come up to you and say,
1260
01:22:04,720 --> 01:22:06,379
"I read your book."
1261
01:22:06,380 --> 01:22:08,919
"It changed my life."
1262
01:22:08,920 --> 01:22:10,469
You're just humbled by that.
1263
01:22:10,470 --> 01:22:13,620
It's just like writing the
book's changed our lives too.
1264
01:22:24,739 --> 01:22:26,779
- We Rabnos are so few now.
1265
01:22:26,780 --> 01:22:28,100
We're so very few.
1266
01:22:30,746 --> 01:22:31,810
But we are strong
1267
01:22:33,140 --> 01:22:34,140
and we are clever
1268
01:22:35,260 --> 01:22:37,890
and when we band together,
1269
01:22:37,900 --> 01:22:39,110
we are a force to
be reckoned with.
1270
01:22:41,180 --> 01:22:43,469
Our hope is to rise again,
1271
01:22:43,470 --> 01:22:46,259
to reignite that passion
that we used to feel
1272
01:22:46,260 --> 01:22:48,200
and to drink in a
new generation.
1273
01:22:51,720 --> 01:22:54,609
- It's just time for there
to be a new expression
1274
01:22:54,610 --> 01:22:57,429
of the World of Darkness
in a way that will
1275
01:22:57,430 --> 01:23:00,859
capture the imagination
of millions,
1276
01:23:00,860 --> 01:23:02,630
millions of fans.
1277
01:23:29,390 --> 01:23:31,519
- There's a lot of
different groups of people
1278
01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:33,849
that you'd never get to meet
if you didn't play the game,
1279
01:23:33,850 --> 01:23:35,170
so it's a beautiful thing.
1280
01:23:39,870 --> 01:23:42,170
- As soon you join in,
the community's lovely.
1281
01:23:43,660 --> 01:23:45,759
You find this really
broadening network
1282
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:47,600
that you can connect with.
1283
01:23:49,220 --> 01:23:51,179
- Role playing has
changed my life
1284
01:23:51,180 --> 01:23:52,459
in so many ways.
1285
01:23:52,460 --> 01:23:55,279
It brings a sense of
understanding between people.
1286
01:23:55,280 --> 01:23:56,730
That's why we're here, right?
1287
01:23:59,860 --> 01:24:02,790
- We just have it
in us, this quest
1288
01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:03,550
and this thirst for darkness.
1289
01:24:04,430 --> 01:24:07,369
I think World of Darkness
really brings out
1290
01:24:07,370 --> 01:24:10,240
other parts of who we are
and who our souls are.
102636
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