Original subtitles

Stand by two, mix through, cue on two.

The BBC's announced the appointment of

ex Head Of Olympic Delivery, Ian Fletcher, as its new Head Of Values.

Time now for the shipping forecast.

Superimpose.

Move Panorama to Twitter?

Right, OK - Yes, no, brilliant.

Blimey, how's that going to work?

It's Monday morning at the BBC's New Broadcasting House headquarters,

and Head of Values, Ian Fletcher,

is chairing another meeting of the renewal group.

I think this might be a good time to remind ourselves what this is

actually about. - Oh, yes, please sir.

Brilliant. - Right.

So, essentially, this DCMS thing...

Following a broadly successful visit to New Broadcasting House

by a delegation from the Department Of Culture, Media And Also Sport,

Ian has been tasked with the opportunity to represent the BBC

in what will be, in one way or another,

a decisive series of meetings at Westminster,

as it negotiates the renewal of its Royal Charter,

and therefore, its permission to exist.

..to really set out our stall at the start of the process.

Hurrah! - Yeah, great.

And maybe even a chance to set the tone of the whole conversation

by being really confident about our aspirations for the future up front.

Christ! - With this in mind, the BBC has recently launched its

high profile More Of Less initiative, as a flagship policy

designed to demonstrate that they understand what they're doing.

I mean, for what it's worth, the mood music at breakfast

with Tony these days is all about ways of showing that we get it.

Right. - Breakfast with Tony?

No, I mean, really, these days, it's just a matter of a bit of

kiwi fruit and some frankly rather tired looking almond croissants.

Jesus! - Yes. - I mean, isn't it? - Yes, exactly, yes.

Right. - Sorry, can I just ask? I mean, this probably isn't my... - No.

..but when you say, "Get it..." - Yes.

..get what, exactly? - Oh, yes, no, brilliant, Lucy.

I mean, I might be being stupid... - Yes, exactly.

No, the fact is, this is about establishing

what we do most of best and finding fewer ways of doing more of it less.

Right. - Yes. - Yes. - Brilliant. - Yeah, bollocks.

So, what is this, Jerry? This is...?

Ben. - So what is this, Ben?

Yeah, I mean, listen, I don't know how this stuff works, but, er..

With Ian's first trip to Westminster due next week,

it's become clear that Ben has been invited to have some thoughts about

what More Of Less might look like in his new role

as someone about to apply for the same job as Jerry.

These are basically just some squeaky toys to push around

the floor, Ben, aren't they? - Yep. - Right. - Squeaky toys? - Yep.

Ugh! - Yes, now, feel free to ignore them.

Right, well... - OK, fine, done. - Yep.

Oh, I dunno, erm... Gardening?

Gardening?! - OK, right... - Yep.

I mean, would anybody miss that if we didn't do it? - I would!

Yes, I mean... - No. - ..surely if isn't it more...?

No, I'm sorry. No, the fact is that's not the point.

In fact, can we close that for the moment? - Yes.

If that's all right, Ben? - Sure.

Yes, of course, yes, no, very good.

Yes, cos I'm sorry, guys, I AM going to say this -

as a woman, I have got a bit of a soft spot for Monty Don.

Really? - Brilliant.

Really?! - Yes, no, who hasn't?

I've got to say, I would miss him. - OK.

And I know there are a lot of other women out there like me.

Yes. I mean, obviously I'm grateful to Ben for all the...

thing that you've put into this. - Oh, no, really. - Hey...

..but we seem to have got off on the wrong foot here somehow. - Yes.

And the idea of us spending our energy on actively looking

for things not to do... - I agree completely.

..I mean, that is absolutely not what renewal is about.

Yes, no, very good.

No, the challenge is to... Hang on, what's this?

Ah, now, yes. - Another squeaky toy, presumably?

Yep. - Yes, no, brilliant.

Orchestras? - Yes.

Right. - Orchestras, yep.

Yes, well, six is probably the perfect number to have

in life anyway, so... - Well, that's...

So, let's not... - No, I'm sorry...

I think that's a different... - Yes. - Six?

It's becoming clear to Ian that so crucial is the More Of Less

initiative deemed to be for the future of the BBC,

that Jerry has also been invited

to have some thoughts about how it might work in his new role

as someone about to apply for the same job as Ben.

The BBC Celtic "Symphonieta"? - Yep. - Right. - Yeah.

Isn't that a bit...? - No.

Yeah, a bit crap, yeah. - Well, no. - Yes.

It just I'm not sure that's how you spell Sinfonietta, anyway, is it?

No, it's not, no. - No.

Really? - No, it is bloody not.

After a, for him, unusually intense period of research,

Jerry has discovered that the BBC currently operates

a total of six major orchestras, and has been looking at ways

of reimagining them as a smaller number of minor orchestras.

I remember being taken to see the Welsh Symphony Orchestra,

as it was then, in St David's Hall, Cardiff, when I was 12.

Right. - Really? - Apart from the musical experience,

which I've got to say was Vaughn Williams,

for me, it was the first time I'd seen more than 30 people

in any kind of room at the same time.

Yes, well, that's... - Brilliant.

For me, as a young woman growing up in Wales, it was seminal.

Right. - That's when I knew I had to get out.

Yes, I mean... - Hurrah!

OK, a couple of things just to throw in at this point.

Brilliant. - Yeah. - Can I just say, I'm with you on this, Ian.

Good, well, that's... Although I haven't said it yet.

No, I know, I'm just saying.

No, I think I should probably say now that this isn't something

I feel comfortable taking to the DCM And Also S next week. - No.

I'm not going to be the guy responsible for axing four major

BBC Orchestras and instigating the launch of the

BBC Celtic "Symphonieta," however you spell it.

Yes, no, very good. - I don't see that as my role as Head Of Values.

Yes, no, fabulous, Ian, very clear.

No, just give it... - No, get off, it's mine.

Yes. - Yes, no, come on, boys, nice big voice.

- This is me on my bike. - This is me on my bike.

This is me on my bike.

Yeah, hey, this is me on my bike.

This is me on my bike.

Meanwhile, across town at Fun Media, Siobhan has asked her team

to gather together and have ideas about using the Cycle Shorts video

sent over to them by Director Of Better, Anna Rampton, as a

possible trail for the launch of the BBC's new online platform, BBC Me.

OK.

This is me on my bike. - This is me on my bike!

OK, OK, it's done now, shut up. - Yep.

So, what are we thinking here, guys? - Pretty cool. - Yeah.

In many ways, it's a perfect example of exactly the sort of

selfie-centred content that will lie at the heart of the new channel,

and that may well be the model for how television will work

in a world where no-one watches it any more.

Plus, when it comes to the actual launch, you can have it playing on,

like, on a permanent loop on a really big screen like a whole wall.

Like, maybe if it was in, like, black and white?

Sure. - Yeah, cool, black and white, yeah.

Yeah, maybe, like, both.

OK, this is so not happening.

We have got one chance to get this launch gig right, OK? - Yep. - Sure.

We get it wrong, we're eating shit soup with no chopsticks here, right?

Yeah. - OK, so what you do is, like, you theme the whole event.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - OK.

Yeah, so, maybe, like, everyone's wearing cycling shorts.

Yeah. - Cycling shorts? - Yeah, or like...

Ew. - OK. - Not going to happen.

OK, so everybody has to have a bike. - OK.

Like, if you don't have a bike, you can't come in.

Yeah, so maybe you have it somewhere you can only get to by bike.

Yeah! - OK, like where? - I don't know, maybe more like...

Yeah, France!

- OK, Michael, what are you thinking here? - Sure.

What have you got upside your head? - Actually, I have an idea.

OK, cool, do you want to go fuzzy felt on this?

Actually, I don't need that. - OK, cool.

So, we don't need the bike. - Say what?

Lose it. - Lose it?

So actually, the cool part of this is freeing the selfie rights,

so we don't need the bike at all.

Even though Michael brings several years' experience with him

from the Fun Media office in New York,

it's become clear that in many ways, he's actually younger than

the rest of the team put together.

..so you set up, like, a YouTube channel.

Like, you could do it, like, now, right?

And people upload themselves saying "Me," like just saying the word,

"Me," like, right into their phones, like a super selfie, whoever they

are, wherever they are, right now. So, like, anyone can add to it,

right? So, like, it goes viral, right?

So, like, already you've got zillions of people already,

it's, like, a huge thing, like, even before the BBC launch,

you got like, pretty much the whole world saying, "Me".

Which could be pretty cool, right? - Holy shit.

So then maybe for the launch, like, you edit it, right?

So, like, you get some cool music,

and maybe the strapline could be, like, "BBC Me - it's you".

Which actually could be cool.

Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah.

George!

# Get ready, everybody, cos here we go

# S Club...

♪ There ain't no party like an S Club party... ♪

Meanwhile, back in Renewal, one of either Ben or Jerry

has noticed that there is a BBC orchestra on the original

list of six that no-one has so far mentioned.

They sound really rather fabulous, don't they? - Yep. - Yep.

Do they? - Yes, all right.

Originally the BBC Light Fun Orchestra, the BBC Swing Band

started life in 1927, and has had incarnations as

the BBC Home Service Dance Band and the Radio 2 Big Swingers Ensemble

in its nearly 80-year history.

Yes, no, can you stop that now, please?

Brilliant. - Yes, can you stop that now, please? - Yep.

Yes, I mean, it's an interesting one, isn't it?

Is it? - Yes, exactly, yes.

Maybe it's because there's been a lot happening

in the world recently, but hands up who knew we had a big swing band.

Yes, well... - Yes, no, the fact is we have.

OK, so what are we going to do with that?

We going to make it smaller, are we? - Brilliant.

The BBC Little Swing Band. - Brilliant. - Brilliant.

I mean, just out of interest, guys,

do we know what their natural constituency is?

Their natural constituency? - Yes, exactly.

Yeah. - Yep. - I mean, I don't know much about their natural constituency...

No, exactly. - ..but now I think about it, I think my grandparents actually

used to listen to them on the World Service. - Really? - Yes, cos..

Yeah, no, the fact is this is not about the World Service.

No, no... - It's not about grandparents. - No, I just...

The fact is, orchestras is something that we currently do well.

Hurrah! - In the end, this is about finding more ways of doing

less of what we currently do better.

Well... - About finding better ways...

Finding fewer. - Finding more ways of doing... - Anyway... - Yes, exactly.

Fuck's sake. - Yes, no, brilliant, listen, I completely

get your concerns around this values thing, Ian.

Do you? - Yes, completely. - Completely. - Yep. - Yes, exactly.

I mean, you'll know how you want to feel about this. I have no idea

how this thing works, but I don't know, are we in an area here...?

Yes. - ..where we can make some kind of positive statement of intent?

Yes, exactly. - Positive statement of intent?

All right, OK. - You know, maybe without

quite so much collateral damage as we might get in some other...

Yes, exactly, yes. - "Collateral damage"?

No offence to your grandparents, obviously, Lucy.

No, exactly. - No. - No. - No.

This is BBC News. These are the top stories developing at 11 -

President Trump promises a big day on national security,

saying "We will build the wall along the border with Mexico".

Yeah, so, basically, we're pretty pleased with it.

Yeah, are you? - Yeah.

A high-ranking North Korean diplomat has told the BBC

he believes Kim Jong-un would be prepared to use nuclear weapons.

It's another day, and Head Of News

And Current Affairs, Neil Read, is down in the in-house IT solutions

control centre with Senior Technical Services Choreographer, Adam Brady.

So its been live for 24 hours now, and basically we're looking at

93% accuracy. - Right. - Except in those one or two areas, obviously.

A new version of the BBC's state of the art in house Syncopatico

operating system has just gone live, including a major upgrade

of its Syncopaticaption automatic live subtitling software.

..which means that it's actually faster from brain to ear

than the human eye can detect.

Yeah, great, so with the 93% accuracy...

Yeah, OK, so with 1.9, we never got past 90%. - Yeah.

Even on good days. - No. - Which we didn't really have.

So, basically, we're ahead of the game here already.

Yeah, great, so can we talk about the other 7%? - Yep, sure.

Although Syncopaticaption 2.0 is already out-subtitling

its predecessors in many areas, the area where it's least accurate

is that of proper names.

..like Tweezer May, for instance. - Yeah, although to be fair,

phonetically, that's actually pretty close. - Yeah, but politically,

and in every other way except phonetically, it's a disaster. - Yeah.

Or worse still, Vladimir Puking. - Yeah, that was really bad luck.

Yeah, the problem we've got, Adam -

proper names are, like, a key component of world news.

Yeah. - Now, I don't understand statistics, but you could say

they're the most important 7%. - Yeah.

And that's the 7% that we're getting wrong. - Yeah, not always.

No, not always, no, but enough.

Like I say, we're 24 hours in, but once it's learned a new name,

in theory, it will never forget it again.

Yeah. - It actually can't.

The thing is, Adam, and again, I don't understand the technicalities

of this, but as far as I can see, what's happening is

it's getting names wrong, and then its remembering that wrong version,

and repeating it without fail. - Yeah, so the good thing about that is

once you've got a problem flagged, we can predict with absolute

certainty when it's going to happen again. - Yeah, exactly, and that's why

we're all dreading the next story about Russia.

Yeah, although, to be fair, things have been a bit quieter

with Russia in the last week or so. - Well, yeah...

So, to me, that's, like, a positive already. - What?

Me. - Me. - Me.

Me. - Me.

Me. - Me.

So, this is, like, a try-out we did. - Right. - Yeah, sure.

And this is, like, some fun guys and a bunch of other people,

I don't know who they are.

Meanwhile, elsewhere in the building, Siobhan has come over to

report back to Head Of Output, Matt Tavener, on Fun Media's

creative response to the Cycle Shorts idea,

after Anna Rampton had forwarded it to them

after David Wilks had sent her the link after Jack Patterson

had adapted it from On Your Bike after Izzy Gould had developed it

after Will Humphreys had come to her with the idea originally.

Can I just say, was that just you again there, Siobhan?

Sure was. - Thought so. - Now, watch out,

I'm coming up again in a minute. - No, cos do you know what?

For a minute there.. - Shut up, here I come.

Me. Me. - Right, yes. - So fun. - Yes.

Fun's brainwave is to use the idea to create an interactive online

trail ahead of the launch of the BBC's new online platform, BBC Me.

That's it, OK? - Sure. - Yeah. - "BBC Me, it's you".

I'm sure that's great, Siobhan, so this.. - Hi.

Hey, Izzy. - Sorry I'm a bit late, I was just...

No, sure, great you could make it.

Yes. - Thanks. - Lovely Izzy.

So Siobhan's just been showing us

a rough of where they are up to with things. - OK. - Yes.

Genius. - Basically, it's...

OK. so I'm going to play it again. - Well, no, that's... - OK, here we go.

Given her loyalty to Will's original concept for On Your Bike,

and given what's happened to it since, Izzy has been uncertain

about whether to come to the meeting or not.

But she has. - Me.

So that's it again. - OK. OK. - Sure. - Do you want to see it...?

No, sure, that's great. So this will be like a YouTube thing.

Excuse me? - Well... - A thing?

Well... - Everybody's got a phone. Everyone's a me.

Right? - Right. - So we go live with this thing before the launch.

Like now, right? So we get a few super mes involved

right at the get go. It's like, "Oh, my God", OK?

Oh, my God! - So this trend is leaving town today. Be on it.

No, sure, that's great Siobhan. - Super mes?

Erm, OK, no, sure. So, like, Taylor Swift does a me, right?

You're pretty much drowning in retweets right away.

Right. - Sure. - Yeah, it's like you're living in a world of mes.

Oh, my God. - Pretty soon, you done break the internet.

Sure, I love where you've gone with this, Siobhan. - Sure. - Genius.

- So, sorry, cos I'm just catching up,

so with the Cycling Shorts idea, Siobhan... - Yes.

Excuse me? - You've just gone past that as an idea, have you?

OK, here's the thing with this, this is BBC Me we're launching,

not BBC Bike. - Right. - Sure. - OK.

OK, like lose the bike. Like, what even is that? Get rid of it.

No, sure. - And the free the selfie idea? - I'm sorry? - Free the selfie!

- Yeah, cos I have to say I was never really sure about that.

No, do you know what, that's really interesting, Izzy.

So, I don't know if this is any use, I don't know about Taylor Swift,

but we get quite a lot of people coming in and out

of here every day. - Sure. - OK. - Would it be an idea to maybe just have

someone, like, down in reception with a phone every day?

No, sure. - Holy shit!

Cos, I mean, you never know, it'll only be a few moments of their time,

who knows who we might get.

Great. - George! - What?

OK, cool. - Right OK. - Genius.

That's great, Izzy, thanks. - Yeah, thanks.

Anna! Anna! Anna!

Eventually, it's the end of another day.

But fortunately for Senior Communications Officer

Tracy Pritchard, Anna Rampton hasn't quite made it

out of the building yet.

Anna! - Yes, hi.

I'm glad I've caught you. I was worried

I was going to run out of road for a minute. - Yes.

I don't know if you saw my e-mail? - Your e-mail?

This thing with the big swing band. - Yes, exactly.

Rumours have somehow started to appear on the BBC Betterness

Twitter feed that the BBC is planning to reimagine

its big swing band as terminally un-swung.

..so we are starting to take incoming on it already.

Right, incoming. - I've already had to get heavy with some 14-year-old

from the Buzzfeed who's tone I didn't appreciate.

And, as far as I can work out, this is basically your thing.

Yes, exactly, yes.

The fact is this is about identifying what

we do most of best and finding fewer ways of doing more of it less.

Right, OK. - Yes.

That's what you want me to say. - Yes.

OK, fine, if you're sure about that, Anna. - Yes, exactly.

Well, like I say, I'm glad I caught you.

You probably won't believe this but I used to run

the 400m hurdles at school. - Yes, exactly, no.

Meanwhile, it's a new day and it may only be 8 o'clock

but down in reception Will Humphreys is already hard at work.

He's been entrusted with the task of persuading some famous faces

to take part in the new interactive online BBC Me Super Selfie campaign.

Yeah, hi, yeah. - Hi.

Yeah, hi. Yeah, so, I'm Will. - Hi, Will.

Yeah, so, how are you? - How am I?

Yeah. - I'm good, thanks. - Cool.

Yeah, I'm good.

Yeah, so, yeah, I'm doing this thing for BBC Me.

BBC Me? - Yeah. - What the hell is that?

Yeah, I know, yeah, so could you like say "Me" into this?

Say "you"? - Yeah, what? - You want me to say you?

Yeah, no, "Me." - Sorry?

Like... "Me."

Except not "me". "You."

You know, Will, there's a part of me that would like to help you...

I know, yeah, me too. - But I just don't think I can.

OK, cool. - Sorry. - No worries.

But, you know, hey, good luck. - Yeah, no worries, yeah, cool.

No, of course. As I say, I've no idea where that's come from.

And as far as I'm aware, it's probably...it's almost certainly

just a rumour. So, you know?

Erm... But, no, in the meantime we're obviously very aware...

Meanwhile, Lucy has found time to go down to the so-called media cafe

to have some breakfast whilst talking on her phone.

OK. Well, look, thanks for getting in touch with me

and, as I say, I'll do what I can just to clarify the situation

and then I'll get back to you as soon as...

Yes, OK. bye. Bye.

Right.

Hi. - Hi.

Everything OK? - Erm, yeah, no. Actually have you got a minute?

Yes, of course, yes.

Where the hell did she get that from? - I know.

I don't know. Someone told her they'd seen something on Twitter,

or... Yes, I know.

Lucy has been contacted by someone called Donna Fredricks,

who turns out to be the daughter, for the moment anyway,

of the leader of the BBC Big Swing Band.

I mean, I think she's like his manager or something

as well as his daughter. - Also, you know why you? - Yes.

What have you got to do with it? - So she posted a message

in the inclusivity feeling space and it got forwarded to me.

Inclusivity feeling space? - OK, here we go. So this is him.

Right, OK. - He's 74, he's been leader of the band for like forever.

Right, God. - Yes, I know.

And suddenly she's like asking me flat out if we're axing it.

Right, yes. - It's like, what am I supposed to say? - No.

I mean are we axing it? - Well, I mean not unless.. - Cos also...

God, there's an also? - So, apparently,

it's his 75th birthday coming up. - Oh...

They're rehearsing a special concert to celebrate as we speak.

Great, that's pretty much a full house then, isn't it?

This is him with the band. - Right! Looks like he's having a nice time.

Yes. - At the risk of sounding like Tracy Pritchard,

I've got a bad feeling about this. - I know.

I mean, thank God we haven't made a decision yet. - Yes.

Cos that would be... - We haven't made a decision?

Well, no. I mean, have we? - Well, I didn't think so.

Well, I mean, not unless someone...

Right, good.

So this is obviously a screen grab.

Yep. - 10:05 this morning, by the looks of it. - Yeah, whatever.

So the thing is we didn't actually notice it when it went out live. - No.

Meanwhile, current Head of News and Current Affairs, Neil Reid, is

having another in a series of increasingly ongoing conversations

with the BBC's chief technical services choreographer, Adam Brady.

I mean, Dame Baggy Smith, for Christ's sake!

Yeah, I know. - I mean, whatever you think of actors,

this is one of the most respected ones of our generation.

Yeah, she's great, isn't she? - She's 82, she's a dame,

for Christ's sake, she's a national treasure.

And she's now someone, and I say this as someone who's just spent

the last ten minutes being shouted at by her agent,

she's now someone who's never going to work for the BBC again.

OK, so what's happened is, that someone's obviously taken this

and posted it on Twitter. - Yes. - Presumably as some kind of joke.

Yes, I can see what's happened! - I mean, I suppose in a way,

you can't actually blame them. - Well, I don't blame them, Adam,

I blame you! - Yeah, yeah. - So, anyway, once you figure out

how to fix it, let's just go back

to good old 1.9 for a bit shall we? - Yeah... - What?

So the thing with 1.9, it's no longer compatible

with Syncopatico Rolling Thunder.

Great, OK, well, let's just turn the fucking thing off all together.

Well, with that, Neil, we immediately run the risk

of alienating the blind community. - Yeah. - Which, I dunno about you

but I'm not comfortable with.

Deaf. - What? - Deaf! - Yeah, deaf, yeah, deaf. Obviously. - God!

Sorry. - Fucking hell!

Ian. - Yes, hello, yes.

Yes, hello. Good to meet you. - Yes, you too.

Meanwhile, Ian has made the journey to Westminster for his crucial

first charter renewal meeting at the Department Of Culture,

Media And Also Sport.

Fiona is just running a few minutes late, I'm afraid. - OK.

But if you're happy just to take a seat? - Of course. Yes.

Can I get you a coffee or...? - No, I'm fine. Thanks.

Your colleague's already here. - Oh, good, well, that... My colleague?

She's been here a while, actually.

As the first of what could be literally who knows how many

such meetings to come, it's vital that it gets off to a smooth start.

Anna. - Yes, hi yes. - So is this...? Are you...? - Yes, exactly, yes.

Right, I mean, don't take this the wrong way, I mean, it's always

nice to see you, obviously. - Yes. - But I have to say, I didn't realise

you were going to be here for this. - Yes. - Right.

The fact is I came in a taxi.

Right. Yes, me too.

Yes. Exactly, yes.

With Fiona Craig running slightly late, Ian and Anna have got

some time to sit next to each other in the waiting room and wait.

'..and here with us now are the leader of the BBC Big Swing Band

'himself Ray Fredericks and his daughter Donna.

'Yes, and Donna, I think this is actually a picture of them

'rehearsing for that 75th birthday concert.'

'Yes, that was last week, yes.'

'So, Ray, for you, all these rumours around closure,

'it's gotta be really upsetting for you and for everyone, really.'

'At first we thought it was a joke. - Hey, that's life, I guess.

'That's showbusiness.'

Meanwhile, back in New Broadcasting House reception,

Will has spotted a new potential target. - Well, yeah, hi, yeah.

Hi. - Yeah, so can you... - No. - OK.

Sorry. - OK, cool.

Will! - Oh, yeah, hey, Izzy. Hi. - How's it going?

Yeah, no worries, yeah, pretty cool. - Any luck?

What, you mean, like so far? - Yes.

I dunno, there was like this one guy who looked like the guy

with Pudsey the Bear. - Pudsey the Bear? - Yeah. - Terry Wogan?

Yeah, Terry Wogan, yeah. - Right.

I asked him and he wasn't... - But Terry Wogan's dead surely.

Yeah, no, yeah that's what he said, yeah. - Right.

I mean you don't have to be down here all the time, Will.

Yeah, no worries, yeah, I don't mind. - It would be so

cool if you ended up getting a couple of really big names.

Yeah. - Apparently, er, Lenny Henry was in this morning.

Yeah. - It'd be... - No way! - It'd be great if you could get him.

Yeah, I know, yeah me, too.

'So, at what point did you first find out?

'When did you hear? - No-one's said anything to us. - No.

'No-one's told us anything, have they? - I don't believe so,

'I guess not.' - Back over at the DCM and also S,

it's becoming clear that despite the importance of the BBC not dropping

a ball of any size on this morning of all mornings, it's managed

to drop a potentially really big one live on its own breakfast show.

'Every day he comes in.

'He gets up in front of the band, he's 27 again.

'You can see it happening. He's like a father to those guys.

'He literally is a father to me.

'You know, it's like, what more do they want?'

Right, OK. - Yes. - So I don't understand quite how this happ...

Hello. - Yes. Hi. - Yes. - Welcome. - Yes, exactly.

But before they know it, it's time to stand up and be met

by the DCM and also S's executive media director, Fiona Craig.

Don't like to boast, but I have a TV of my own in my office.

Shall we watch it in there? - Yes. - Yes. No, yes.

They're to be joined once again for the meeting by two further DCM

and S junior people.

I'm sure you won't remember Chloe and Zoe but this is them again.

Yes, of course, hi. - Hi. - Yes, hi.

Yes, exactly. - With the introductions over,

perhaps not surprisingly the first item on the agenda is pleasantries.

If there's anything you can do personally to make EastEnders

any less depressing, I strongly advise you to think about it.

Right. - Yes. - Yes. - Yes.

Probably thinking that's a joke, Ian. - Well... - It's not. - Right. No.

No. - Yes. - For Ian, getting off to a good start

in his first-ever meeting with the government

in the charter renewal process hasn't been helped by the item

on this morning's BBC Breakfast programme, about

plans to axe the BBC Big Swing Band without telling them

as they rehearse for a special concert to mark

its leader's 75th birthday celebrations.

..Ray Fredericks in prime position on what

I can really only call the BBC Breakfast sofa.

Right, yes. - So how should we think about that? - Yes. - Yes.

How should we think about it? - Yes. - Uh-huh. - Yes.

Well, I mean this is just, it's one of those genuinely...

Yes. - ..in the context of some very tough choices. This is...

Exactly, yes. Tough choices, yes.

This is something we found ourselves looking at, isn't it, Anna?

Yes, exactly. Yes.

I mean, obviously in an ideal world... - Well, now, let's not do

ideal worlds, Ian, shall we? - No. - That way madness lies. - Yes.

But what I would say about this, I mean to me, I'm an agnostic

when it comes to music.

It's nothing to me what tune you dance to,

but what I would say, maybe a word to the wise,

you do know that the minister himself is a keen trombonist.

Right. - The he, the what? - Were you not aware of that?

A trombonist? - I have to say I wondered.

Right. When you say... - So if I tell you he's got a picture

of Duke Ellington on the wall of his office, Ian...

Right. - The duke, the Ellington? - If I can just, forgive me Fiona,

is this a joke? - A joke? - Yes. - You can judge for yourself

if you get here early enough. On some mornings, you can hear him

from outside on the street. - Right. - Yes. - Yes.

So what I'd say to you about that, Ian, is from your point of view,

if it's a joke, it's not really a very funny one, is it? - No.

Yes, hi, Tracy, yes.

Yes, I have, just now, yes.

Yes, it is.

Yes, I know.

Yes, I have.

As part of an explosion of reaction on social media

following the big swing band item on BBC Breakfast earlier,

Jules Holland, one of the BBC's biggest-living musical giants,

has tweeted that he will leave the BBC for good

if the planned closure goes ahead. And, worse still,

a lot of people with opinions have already liked that.

Yes, now Anna's here with me.

Yes. Well, but, anyway, she is.

Overall, things are not going well.

We'll see you shortly and in the meantime, let's all stay calm

and try and visualise some positive outcomes here.

No, well, OK, but let's try anyway.

Yes, fine, OK. Bye-bye.

Right, good.

So there's an emergency damage limitation in Nadia Hussain

at 11 o'clock. Tony's suggestion.

He's super calm apparently, but apparently someone heard him

shouting in the toilet.

So, anyway, yes, if you've got any bright ideas,

I mean apart from asking the driver to drive us both to St Pancras,

getting on a train and disappearing to the continent for a while.

I mean obviously the main... That was a joke by the way.

Mm. - Just in case you... - Mm. - Yeah. No, I mean the main thing now is to

before we, you know. Actually, are you OK, Anna?

Anna, are you all right?

Right, OK, erm, actually can we just stop, please? - What?

Yeah, I think... - Are you OK back there? - No, I think she's fine.

I think it's OK, she's just, you know...

Ah, no, I think maybe we'd better stop.