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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,020 --> 00:00:04,139 I couldn't see her any more. I couldn't see the... 2 00:00:04,140 --> 00:00:05,579 ..things that made her HER. 3 00:00:05,580 --> 00:00:07,459 They want to switch off her machines, 4 00:00:07,460 --> 00:00:08,979 and we want to keep them on. 5 00:00:08,980 --> 00:00:11,259 They say she's in a lot of pain! She is still your child! 6 00:00:11,260 --> 00:00:12,979 Yes! Yes, she is! 7 00:00:12,980 --> 00:00:14,579 So you just left her and me? 8 00:00:14,580 --> 00:00:16,619 That makes it sound like I abandoned you. 9 00:00:16,620 --> 00:00:18,179 Yeah, cos you did. 10 00:00:18,180 --> 00:00:22,179 However you feel about what your parents are doing, it's not about 11 00:00:22,180 --> 00:00:24,419 picking sides. Of course it is. 12 00:00:24,420 --> 00:00:26,259 And I'm on Marnie's side. 13 00:00:26,260 --> 00:00:29,179 We believe we can suggest a bias in the treatment Marnie has received 14 00:00:29,180 --> 00:00:30,739 from Samantha Woodham. 15 00:00:30,740 --> 00:00:32,299 She perforated an artery. 16 00:00:32,300 --> 00:00:34,419 It sounds pretty deadly to me. 17 00:00:34,420 --> 00:00:36,659 Marnie, she's complicated. 18 00:00:36,660 --> 00:00:40,459 But... you know, she's, er, she's joyous. 19 00:00:40,460 --> 00:00:42,219 I really miss you. 20 00:00:42,220 --> 00:00:45,259 Do you think you'll win, Nicci? Any change in her condition? 21 00:00:45,260 --> 00:00:46,900 Can I just go and see my daughter? 22 00:00:48,180 --> 00:00:49,980 Can't we do better than this? 23 00:00:51,340 --> 00:00:55,419 This programme contains some strong language and some scenes which some viewers may find upsetting 24 00:00:55,420 --> 00:00:58,139 BABY GURGLES 25 00:00:58,140 --> 00:00:59,740 HE CHUCKLES 26 00:01:00,820 --> 00:01:02,499 Hey. 27 00:01:02,500 --> 00:01:04,499 She finds wallpaper funny. 28 00:01:04,500 --> 00:01:07,659 Does she? Are you sure that's OK? 29 00:01:07,660 --> 00:01:09,139 The steam and... 30 00:01:09,140 --> 00:01:10,979 Ah, I think it's fine. 31 00:01:10,980 --> 00:01:12,979 Yeah? Yeah. 32 00:01:12,980 --> 00:01:15,779 Should have probably done it before she got here. 33 00:01:15,780 --> 00:01:17,099 She loves it. 34 00:01:17,100 --> 00:01:20,139 Look at that smile. I was thinking maybe a picnic. 35 00:01:20,140 --> 00:01:22,259 Ah, it's a bit cold. 36 00:01:22,260 --> 00:01:26,739 Yeah, we'll just wrap up, won't we? We'll wrap up. 37 00:01:26,740 --> 00:01:28,619 You going to make sandwiches? 38 00:01:28,620 --> 00:01:30,899 I'm not going to make sandwiches, sexist! 39 00:01:30,900 --> 00:01:33,619 We'll buy sandwiches. Ah. 40 00:01:33,620 --> 00:01:35,739 I'll get you a sausage roll if you're lucky. 41 00:01:35,740 --> 00:01:38,819 Oh, I'm in! 42 00:01:38,820 --> 00:01:42,739 BABY GURGLES Ah! She finds that funny too. 43 00:01:42,740 --> 00:01:44,740 Ah, no, no! Ah! 44 00:02:01,260 --> 00:02:02,979 RADIO: ..factors at play 45 00:02:02,980 --> 00:02:06,019 when the life of a young child is at stake. 46 00:02:06,020 --> 00:02:08,139 Looking at the papers this morning, 47 00:02:08,140 --> 00:02:09,419 this makes the front page 48 00:02:09,420 --> 00:02:10,780 on nearly every single... 49 00:02:15,500 --> 00:02:16,859 ANDREW SIGHS 50 00:02:16,860 --> 00:02:18,579 Ready? 51 00:02:18,580 --> 00:02:19,620 Yeah. 52 00:02:23,260 --> 00:02:25,660 It's going to be OK. Yeah, yeah. 53 00:02:30,940 --> 00:02:32,940 Mint? Ah, I just brushed my teeth. 54 00:02:34,460 --> 00:02:35,980 You need a mint, mate. 55 00:02:46,860 --> 00:02:48,500 You keep them. 56 00:02:56,220 --> 00:02:59,219 Nicci! Nicci! Nicci! Nicci! 57 00:02:59,220 --> 00:03:03,379 REPORTERS CLAMOUR 58 00:03:03,380 --> 00:03:06,180 We're just going to go straight in, thank you very much. 59 00:03:28,580 --> 00:03:29,939 Pre-match huddle? 60 00:03:29,940 --> 00:03:31,819 Yeah. OK. 61 00:03:31,820 --> 00:03:33,539 A rundown of who's here. 62 00:03:33,540 --> 00:03:37,219 Francesca Camara, representing the hospital and Dr Samantha Woodham. 63 00:03:37,220 --> 00:03:40,299 She's very good. Beatrice Shrigley, working with 64 00:03:40,300 --> 00:03:43,539 Greg Richardson and the Children and Family Legal Services team. 65 00:03:43,540 --> 00:03:46,379 Representing Marnie. Yeah, we met Mr Richardson. 66 00:03:46,380 --> 00:03:47,779 Good lawyers, but so are we. 67 00:03:47,780 --> 00:03:50,100 We're going to save Marnie's life, Mrs Lloyd. 68 00:03:54,020 --> 00:03:56,460 We're going to do something special here today. 69 00:03:58,380 --> 00:03:59,860 Yeah, good. 70 00:04:05,980 --> 00:04:08,579 How long have you been Marnie's paediatric consultant? 71 00:04:08,580 --> 00:04:11,499 I have observed Marnie in PICU for close to seven years. 72 00:04:11,500 --> 00:04:13,539 She's a patient I know very well. 73 00:04:13,540 --> 00:04:16,940 And will you tell us what you think the best treatment is for her now? 74 00:04:21,460 --> 00:04:24,699 I am sorry to say that I think we should stop all treatments. 75 00:04:24,700 --> 00:04:28,699 I believe the life-sustaining treatments we are currently 76 00:04:28,700 --> 00:04:32,859 giving are causing her to suffer without any prospect of helping her. 77 00:04:32,860 --> 00:04:35,939 How would you describe Marnie's current interaction with the world? 78 00:04:35,940 --> 00:04:39,419 She will never, in my medical opinion, 79 00:04:39,420 --> 00:04:41,939 leave ventilated breathing support. 80 00:04:41,940 --> 00:04:44,419 She shows little response to stimuli 81 00:04:44,420 --> 00:04:46,579 and her brain scans show irreversible damage. 82 00:04:46,580 --> 00:04:49,499 So her conscious experience? 83 00:04:49,500 --> 00:04:50,739 In my judgment, 84 00:04:50,740 --> 00:04:54,420 right now, she has very little, if any, conscious experience. 85 00:04:56,420 --> 00:04:58,180 No further questions. 86 00:05:06,700 --> 00:05:09,899 How many children have you treated like Marnie? 87 00:05:09,900 --> 00:05:14,099 No case is alike, but I have treated 88 00:05:14,100 --> 00:05:17,499 maybe 20 or 25 children with severe muscular dystrophy. 89 00:05:17,500 --> 00:05:20,619 How many end up in a situation where, in your opinion, 90 00:05:20,620 --> 00:05:23,699 treatment can no longer be of use? 91 00:05:23,700 --> 00:05:25,939 I couldn't tell you that exactly. 92 00:05:25,940 --> 00:05:27,620 How many have died in your care? 93 00:05:29,580 --> 00:05:30,779 Six. 94 00:05:30,780 --> 00:05:33,539 The deterioration in each case was similar to what we've seen 95 00:05:33,540 --> 00:05:34,619 with Marnie? 96 00:05:34,620 --> 00:05:39,179 No cases are alike. And Marnie's specific condition is unique. 97 00:05:39,180 --> 00:05:42,779 In fact, as you say, it is as yet undiagnosed. 98 00:05:42,780 --> 00:05:45,699 As happens frequently with neuromuscular disorders. 99 00:05:45,700 --> 00:05:49,419 But as it is undiagnosed, how can you be 100% sure that 100 00:05:49,420 --> 00:05:52,139 continuing treatment is futile? 101 00:05:52,140 --> 00:05:54,819 I am as certain as I can be. 102 00:05:54,820 --> 00:05:56,179 And if I were to tell you 103 00:05:56,180 --> 00:05:59,100 that there are doctors who believe they can treat Marnie? 104 00:06:00,780 --> 00:06:05,179 Marnie's conscious experience, another complicated area, is it not? 105 00:06:05,180 --> 00:06:06,539 Yes. 106 00:06:06,540 --> 00:06:08,139 Have there been examples, 107 00:06:08,140 --> 00:06:12,459 to your knowledge, of children with severe brain damage who recover? 108 00:06:12,460 --> 00:06:15,699 I do not believe it is likely there will be any 109 00:06:15,700 --> 00:06:17,699 miracle improvement. 110 00:06:17,700 --> 00:06:20,579 Of course, you must have your beliefs. 111 00:06:20,580 --> 00:06:22,900 Let us discuss pain. 112 00:06:24,060 --> 00:06:26,699 Ventilation itself isn't painful, is it? 113 00:06:26,700 --> 00:06:29,259 No, but suctioning is very unpleasant. 114 00:06:29,260 --> 00:06:30,619 And how often does that happen? 115 00:06:30,620 --> 00:06:31,979 Several times a day. 116 00:06:31,980 --> 00:06:35,259 And if Marnie has very little, if any, conscious experience, 117 00:06:35,260 --> 00:06:38,419 in your opinion, how would she feel pain 118 00:06:38,420 --> 00:06:41,059 in these isolated suctioning incidents? 119 00:06:41,060 --> 00:06:44,299 There are autonomic responses from Marnie 120 00:06:44,300 --> 00:06:46,619 that do, I'm afraid, suggest pain. 121 00:06:46,620 --> 00:06:49,019 You cannot have it both ways, Dr Woodham. 122 00:06:49,020 --> 00:06:51,579 Either she doesn't have a conscious experience, 123 00:06:51,580 --> 00:06:54,259 in which case she isn't in pain, or she does. 124 00:06:54,260 --> 00:06:56,379 You're wrong. 125 00:06:56,380 --> 00:07:00,299 We have seen a series of reactions, from spasms to 126 00:07:00,300 --> 00:07:05,139 changing heart rates, which do suggest that while her conscious 127 00:07:05,140 --> 00:07:10,940 experience is extremely limited, her pain response is still there. 128 00:07:15,060 --> 00:07:20,339 Let me take you back to 2016, if that's OK? 129 00:07:20,340 --> 00:07:22,619 Sure. 130 00:07:22,620 --> 00:07:24,779 May 24th. 131 00:07:24,780 --> 00:07:26,979 Marnie presented with an infection. 132 00:07:26,980 --> 00:07:30,419 Yes. Um, I would need to consult my notes. 133 00:07:30,420 --> 00:07:33,659 You had to put in a central venous catheter. 134 00:07:33,660 --> 00:07:35,100 A central line. 135 00:07:36,660 --> 00:07:38,179 Yes. And it went wrong. 136 00:07:38,180 --> 00:07:40,299 You perforated an artery. 137 00:07:40,300 --> 00:07:42,939 Which led to distal ischemia. Yes. 138 00:07:42,940 --> 00:07:45,979 You needed to call in a vascular surgeon to repair the damage. 139 00:07:45,980 --> 00:07:49,899 This incident was referred up to the consultants' group and it was seen 140 00:07:49,900 --> 00:07:53,059 to be an unfortunate complication of a competently performed procedure. 141 00:07:53,060 --> 00:07:55,779 "Competently performed"? 142 00:07:55,780 --> 00:07:58,339 How can something be "competently performed" 143 00:07:58,340 --> 00:08:01,179 when it almost leads to ischemia? 144 00:08:01,180 --> 00:08:03,500 That is what they concluded. 145 00:08:06,380 --> 00:08:08,020 We are human beings. 146 00:08:09,340 --> 00:08:14,219 And... I am sorry it happened... 147 00:08:14,220 --> 00:08:17,500 ..and I am grateful there was no damage to Marnie in the long term. 148 00:08:19,900 --> 00:08:23,100 What do you know of unconscious bias in the medical profession? 149 00:08:24,420 --> 00:08:26,979 Well, it's something that we're all concerned with. 150 00:08:26,980 --> 00:08:30,019 A doctor in a raft is told only seven people can 151 00:08:30,020 --> 00:08:32,659 survive on the rations they have. 152 00:08:32,660 --> 00:08:35,019 He has to make a decision as to who to save. 153 00:08:35,020 --> 00:08:38,979 He or she. I do beg your pardon, Dr Woodham. 154 00:08:38,980 --> 00:08:42,259 How does he or she make the judgment? 155 00:08:42,260 --> 00:08:44,579 We do not ration care in this country. 156 00:08:44,580 --> 00:08:47,059 You're denying that during Covid there was rationing of care 157 00:08:47,060 --> 00:08:49,299 for disabled people? There was a prioritisation. 158 00:08:49,300 --> 00:08:51,140 Who do you prioritise? 159 00:08:55,420 --> 00:08:58,219 Now, we happen to have some correspondence 160 00:08:58,220 --> 00:09:00,419 that was passed to us at very late notice. 161 00:09:00,420 --> 00:09:01,619 My Lady! 162 00:09:01,620 --> 00:09:04,059 I apologise enormously, My Lady. It was this morning. 163 00:09:04,060 --> 00:09:06,179 I emailed the court as soon as I received it. 164 00:09:06,180 --> 00:09:08,100 I received no email. 165 00:09:09,140 --> 00:09:11,500 Do you have copies for the others? Yes, My Lady. 166 00:09:16,940 --> 00:09:19,499 My Lady, we have no means of verifying this document. 167 00:09:19,500 --> 00:09:21,340 We can ask the witness. 168 00:09:23,180 --> 00:09:25,100 Did this email come from you? 169 00:09:34,540 --> 00:09:36,060 How did you get this? 170 00:09:39,260 --> 00:09:40,819 Yes. 171 00:09:40,820 --> 00:09:42,859 Then I'll allow it. 172 00:09:42,860 --> 00:09:46,459 This is a correspondence between you and a bed manager about 173 00:09:46,460 --> 00:09:51,139 how to move people out of PICU in preparation for the Covid outbreak. 174 00:09:51,140 --> 00:09:54,099 Dated February 2020. 175 00:09:54,100 --> 00:09:59,699 They ask you what they should do about bed 16 and you reply, 176 00:09:59,700 --> 00:10:02,619 "Bed 16 shouldn't be there, 177 00:10:02,620 --> 00:10:06,019 "the parents have been clinging to hope without there being any." 178 00:10:06,020 --> 00:10:08,419 I was expressing a medical opinion. 179 00:10:08,420 --> 00:10:11,620 I... regret how it sounds. 180 00:10:14,580 --> 00:10:18,739 Do you believe that sometimes, for patients, as a doctor, that the best 181 00:10:18,740 --> 00:10:21,019 thing to do is to let them die? 182 00:10:21,020 --> 00:10:23,699 That was another child and another set of circumstances. 183 00:10:23,700 --> 00:10:25,659 It was a busy time. 184 00:10:25,660 --> 00:10:27,180 Lots of people to save? 185 00:10:28,980 --> 00:10:30,179 Yes. 186 00:10:30,180 --> 00:10:31,939 How irritating, then, to have a bed 187 00:10:31,940 --> 00:10:35,499 taken up with this disabled child which determined parents 188 00:10:35,500 --> 00:10:37,059 are there to protect. 189 00:10:37,060 --> 00:10:40,139 I do think the sanctity of life is important. 190 00:10:40,140 --> 00:10:44,899 But sometimes, as doctors, we're unable to preserve a meaningful 191 00:10:44,900 --> 00:10:48,979 life, and in that case it is cruel to prolong the dying process 192 00:10:48,980 --> 00:10:51,419 with treatments that do not benefit them. 193 00:10:51,420 --> 00:10:55,699 Where is that stated? Is that in the good medical practice guidelines, 194 00:10:55,700 --> 00:10:57,339 as laid out by the GMC? 195 00:10:57,340 --> 00:10:58,619 My Lady! 196 00:10:58,620 --> 00:11:01,179 Mr Frederick, your questioning here is inappropriate, 197 00:11:01,180 --> 00:11:03,419 as I believe you're well aware. 198 00:11:03,420 --> 00:11:06,939 Dr Woodham, you do not need to answer but you may if you wish. 199 00:11:06,940 --> 00:11:08,540 Mm. 200 00:11:15,660 --> 00:11:17,180 Marnie is in pain. 201 00:11:19,180 --> 00:11:22,659 She's unable to communicate, 202 00:11:22,660 --> 00:11:24,620 and I am no longer helping her. 203 00:11:26,300 --> 00:11:29,500 I am just prolonging her death. 204 00:11:30,700 --> 00:11:35,099 When the other doctors decided that you had had 205 00:11:35,100 --> 00:11:39,299 an unfortunate complication in perforating Marnie's artery 206 00:11:39,300 --> 00:11:43,099 and almost leaving her with another disability, 207 00:11:43,100 --> 00:11:44,899 on what grounds did they do so? 208 00:11:44,900 --> 00:11:46,299 Sorry? 209 00:11:46,300 --> 00:11:49,860 On what grounds did they make their judgment on you? 210 00:11:53,220 --> 00:11:55,939 The grounds of, um... 211 00:11:55,940 --> 00:11:57,299 I'm sorry, I... 212 00:11:57,300 --> 00:11:59,619 They gave you the benefit of the doubt, Dr Woodham. 213 00:11:59,620 --> 00:12:02,939 Just as you have failed to give Marnie the benefit of the doubt. 214 00:12:02,940 --> 00:12:06,779 No. In fact, and instead, what Marnie has faced 215 00:12:06,780 --> 00:12:11,179 every day in your care is your prejudice that this little girl 216 00:12:11,180 --> 00:12:14,939 and her little life are taking up space in your precious PICU. 217 00:12:14,940 --> 00:12:16,340 No. 218 00:12:22,420 --> 00:12:24,499 I am sorry that you're getting emotional. 219 00:12:24,500 --> 00:12:26,259 That was not my intention. 220 00:12:26,260 --> 00:12:29,700 But there is, of course, a lot of emotion attached to this case. 221 00:12:30,740 --> 00:12:37,259 She is my patient and I have always given her the finest care. 222 00:12:37,260 --> 00:12:38,860 In your opinion. 223 00:12:40,220 --> 00:12:42,060 No further questions. 224 00:12:47,980 --> 00:12:49,859 You doing OK? 225 00:12:49,860 --> 00:12:51,979 Great. 226 00:12:51,980 --> 00:12:53,580 You've had no further trouble? 227 00:12:55,060 --> 00:12:56,420 I'm fine. 228 00:12:59,860 --> 00:13:02,539 That was a good morning for us. 229 00:13:02,540 --> 00:13:03,980 I'm sure it feels like that. 230 00:13:07,700 --> 00:13:12,220 PHONE BUZZES 231 00:13:33,180 --> 00:13:35,819 Hey. 232 00:13:35,820 --> 00:13:37,939 Hey there. 233 00:13:37,940 --> 00:13:39,539 Mind if I...? 234 00:13:39,540 --> 00:13:41,340 Uh, no. Not at all. 235 00:13:45,900 --> 00:13:47,219 Is it allowed? 236 00:13:47,220 --> 00:13:48,580 It's allowed. 237 00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:55,459 How do you think it's going? Honestly? Yeah. 238 00:13:55,460 --> 00:13:57,019 Horribly. 239 00:13:57,020 --> 00:13:59,019 These things are usually... 240 00:13:59,020 --> 00:14:02,620 ..not collegiate, but there's a certain level of respect. 241 00:14:11,380 --> 00:14:14,460 However this turns out, look after yourself, OK? 242 00:14:16,860 --> 00:14:19,379 Ah, yeah, it's just an egg stain. 243 00:14:19,380 --> 00:14:20,899 Sorry? 244 00:14:20,900 --> 00:14:22,620 On the tie. It's just an egg stain. 245 00:14:24,420 --> 00:14:26,579 I know what drinking looks like. 246 00:14:26,580 --> 00:14:28,340 I know what drinking smells like. 247 00:14:32,260 --> 00:14:34,259 Have you got any lunch? 248 00:14:34,260 --> 00:14:35,740 Er, no. 249 00:14:37,980 --> 00:14:39,619 OK. I can get some more. 250 00:14:39,620 --> 00:14:42,860 What? No, no, no, no. You can, and you will. 251 00:14:49,580 --> 00:14:52,380 My favourite flavour. Cheese and onion. 252 00:14:54,380 --> 00:14:56,540 My favourite. Good. 253 00:15:02,060 --> 00:15:04,219 Mr Lloyd. 254 00:15:04,220 --> 00:15:06,460 Would you consent to a few questions from me? 255 00:15:08,260 --> 00:15:09,739 I've... 256 00:15:09,740 --> 00:15:12,179 I've nothing to hide. Thank you. 257 00:15:12,180 --> 00:15:16,339 Your wife gave up her job when Marnie was diagnosed? 258 00:15:16,340 --> 00:15:18,419 And I'm very grateful for that. 259 00:15:18,420 --> 00:15:20,779 Rather she kept herself focused on Marnie. 260 00:15:20,780 --> 00:15:23,819 Well, her job wasn't very understanding. 261 00:15:23,820 --> 00:15:26,059 You kept working? 262 00:15:26,060 --> 00:15:30,259 Yes. Uh, we needed the money. 263 00:15:30,260 --> 00:15:33,299 Do you remember who was earning more when Marnie was born? 264 00:15:33,300 --> 00:15:34,899 Your wife or yourself? 265 00:15:34,900 --> 00:15:37,019 Er, she was. 266 00:15:37,020 --> 00:15:40,659 So, a better economic decision might have been for you to give up 267 00:15:40,660 --> 00:15:43,300 your job and for your wife to keep on going. 268 00:15:46,980 --> 00:15:48,499 You're right. 269 00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:51,460 Can you explain why, then, you were the one to keep your job? 270 00:15:53,460 --> 00:15:57,179 To be honest, the question wasn't asked. 271 00:15:57,180 --> 00:15:59,219 What sort of hours do you work, Mr Lloyd? 272 00:15:59,220 --> 00:16:01,379 9.30 till 6.00 most days. 273 00:16:01,380 --> 00:16:05,019 And your business, accountancy, has grown since Marnie was born? 274 00:16:05,020 --> 00:16:06,219 Yes. 275 00:16:06,220 --> 00:16:09,940 So, occasionally you have meetings in the evenings, at weekends? 276 00:16:12,460 --> 00:16:15,379 I... have always... um... 277 00:16:15,380 --> 00:16:18,419 ..have made a lot of time for my family. 278 00:16:18,420 --> 00:16:20,939 So any suggestion you've buried yourself in work... 279 00:16:20,940 --> 00:16:24,219 My Lady! I am not here to represent Mr Lloyd, but as he's 280 00:16:24,220 --> 00:16:28,019 representing himself and perhaps unused to the court situation, 281 00:16:28,020 --> 00:16:30,579 I do feel obliged to say these questions do feel 282 00:16:30,580 --> 00:16:32,419 unnecessarily intrusive. 283 00:16:32,420 --> 00:16:33,860 Agreed. 284 00:16:38,860 --> 00:16:41,780 Would you consider yourself a good father, Andrew? 285 00:16:46,460 --> 00:16:48,739 I'd hope... that I'm a good dad. 286 00:16:48,740 --> 00:16:51,499 I don't believe this line of questioning is fruitful. 287 00:16:51,500 --> 00:16:55,259 I'm not going to be helped by intrusive questions of Mr Lloyd. 288 00:16:55,260 --> 00:16:57,859 If you have any questions about Marnie's quality of life, 289 00:16:57,860 --> 00:17:00,299 please ask them. Apologies, My Lady. 290 00:17:00,300 --> 00:17:03,939 I'm not looking to be intrusive, just drawing a picture 291 00:17:03,940 --> 00:17:06,259 as to the family dynamic, so as to 292 00:17:06,260 --> 00:17:10,739 get a... a better sense of who might best represent Marnie's interests. 293 00:17:10,740 --> 00:17:14,459 Mr Frederick, I have no doubt that everyone involved in this case 294 00:17:14,460 --> 00:17:15,979 firmly believes that they are 295 00:17:15,980 --> 00:17:19,700 putting Marnie's best interests first. It's not a competition. 296 00:17:23,820 --> 00:17:28,779 Parenting a child with Marnie's needs must be extremely trying. 297 00:17:28,780 --> 00:17:32,379 There are difficulties but, er... 298 00:17:32,380 --> 00:17:34,899 ..immense pleasures, too. 299 00:17:34,900 --> 00:17:37,299 She's a beautiful girl. 300 00:17:37,300 --> 00:17:39,980 Has the pressure ever overwhelmed you? 301 00:17:41,780 --> 00:17:43,379 Frequently. 302 00:17:43,380 --> 00:17:45,059 There have been moments 303 00:17:45,060 --> 00:17:48,539 when you have made mistakes looking after her, haven't there? 304 00:17:48,540 --> 00:17:53,059 The time that Marnie was left alone with her temperature rising 305 00:17:53,060 --> 00:17:55,860 while you were in your garden, drinking. 306 00:17:57,860 --> 00:18:00,219 Um... 307 00:18:00,220 --> 00:18:02,059 I had... 308 00:18:02,060 --> 00:18:04,099 I had a couple of beers, sure, 309 00:18:04,100 --> 00:18:07,059 but I had the monitor with me and I couldn't anticipate... 310 00:18:07,060 --> 00:18:09,220 Was it a COUPLE of beers? 311 00:18:13,980 --> 00:18:16,660 I... Um... 312 00:18:18,860 --> 00:18:20,579 Perhaps four or five. 313 00:18:20,580 --> 00:18:22,460 Were there drugs involved? 314 00:18:26,380 --> 00:18:28,539 Maybe I'd smoked some weed. I do occasionally. 315 00:18:28,540 --> 00:18:30,259 It doesn't impact my judgment. 316 00:18:30,260 --> 00:18:34,219 To be clear, at that moment she required hospitalisation. 317 00:18:34,220 --> 00:18:36,019 I... 318 00:18:36,020 --> 00:18:38,700 I think we've both made mistakes, haven't we, Nicci? 319 00:18:39,980 --> 00:18:43,379 Is this another mistake, Mr Lloyd? 320 00:18:43,380 --> 00:18:46,819 You're aware that if you do this, there is no coming back? 321 00:18:46,820 --> 00:18:49,859 Am I aware that my daughter will be dead? 322 00:18:49,860 --> 00:18:52,900 Yes. I'm... aware of that. 323 00:18:54,140 --> 00:18:56,660 I don't want to make this decision. I... 324 00:18:58,220 --> 00:18:59,980 I just... um... 325 00:19:01,740 --> 00:19:03,660 I feel obliged to. 326 00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:10,460 No further questions. 327 00:19:15,660 --> 00:19:18,219 Where does that obligation come from? 328 00:19:18,220 --> 00:19:20,180 The obligation to make that decision? 329 00:19:22,620 --> 00:19:25,060 I looked at her and, um... 330 00:19:28,020 --> 00:19:29,500 ..I, um... 331 00:19:32,780 --> 00:19:38,259 It's a difficult thing, watching your child in pain, 332 00:19:38,260 --> 00:19:40,979 especially when you believe she won't get better. 333 00:19:40,980 --> 00:19:43,619 That is supposition on the basis of no medical training. 334 00:19:43,620 --> 00:19:47,699 But I have studied. My wife and I both have. We're specialists. 335 00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:50,699 You know, I believe one thing and she believes another, and 336 00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:55,740 I believe that hers is on the basis of a wish that I wish I shared. 337 00:19:59,460 --> 00:20:01,500 The obligation comes from love. 338 00:20:03,580 --> 00:20:05,179 And if that doesn't sound... 339 00:20:05,180 --> 00:20:07,500 Well, look, I don't really care how it sounds. 340 00:20:09,460 --> 00:20:11,060 No further questions. 341 00:20:26,580 --> 00:20:29,379 Uh, I'm going to catch the bus home, OK? 342 00:20:29,380 --> 00:20:32,539 Oh. Well, Grandad was going to give us a lift. 343 00:20:32,540 --> 00:20:35,339 Er, yeah, I'm going to catch the bus. 344 00:20:35,340 --> 00:20:37,379 Just need some space. 345 00:20:37,380 --> 00:20:39,060 OK. 346 00:20:53,180 --> 00:20:56,019 I'm so sorry this is so late in the day. Oh, that's OK. 347 00:20:56,020 --> 00:20:59,099 I'm just pleased to finally be getting to talk to you. 348 00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:00,220 I think I can help you. 349 00:21:01,780 --> 00:21:03,099 Great. 350 00:21:03,100 --> 00:21:07,979 So, what's your opinion on what's best now, for Marnie? 351 00:21:07,980 --> 00:21:11,179 Marnie needs time. We need to be able to chart 352 00:21:11,180 --> 00:21:14,139 whether any recovery from the hypoxic brain damage is possible. 353 00:21:14,140 --> 00:21:18,179 We need to see what treatment might be best for her condition. 354 00:21:18,180 --> 00:21:21,619 So, I say we give her that time and get her tracheostomised 355 00:21:21,620 --> 00:21:23,020 and supported. 356 00:21:28,060 --> 00:21:30,179 I can't, er... 357 00:21:30,180 --> 00:21:34,579 I can't tell you how good it feels to hear a doctor say it. 358 00:21:34,580 --> 00:21:36,899 Medicine's an observational sport. 359 00:21:36,900 --> 00:21:41,019 Too many give up on that observation too quickly. 360 00:21:41,020 --> 00:21:44,179 There are many that believe that risdiplam might have 361 00:21:44,180 --> 00:21:47,619 an impact across a spectrum of neuromuscular disorders. 362 00:21:47,620 --> 00:21:50,219 Yeah, I said... I said the same. 363 00:21:50,220 --> 00:21:52,859 And the important thing from the court's perspective is not 364 00:21:52,860 --> 00:21:56,260 that such a thing is probable, but that it's possible. 365 00:21:58,740 --> 00:22:02,579 But you've had success with children like Marnie? 366 00:22:02,580 --> 00:22:05,899 Mrs Lloyd, I've had success with all kinds of children 367 00:22:05,900 --> 00:22:08,700 that medical science would otherwise have discarded. 368 00:22:14,740 --> 00:22:16,259 What's in the picnic basket? 369 00:22:16,260 --> 00:22:18,620 I don't know yet, cos it's in the shop. 370 00:22:21,260 --> 00:22:22,700 Got it. 371 00:22:26,300 --> 00:22:28,420 CAR ENGINE STARTS 372 00:22:43,460 --> 00:22:46,659 You look like a fucking statue. 373 00:22:46,660 --> 00:22:49,299 Yeah. 374 00:22:49,300 --> 00:22:50,580 You want to talk about it? 375 00:22:58,260 --> 00:22:59,940 I had... 376 00:23:00,980 --> 00:23:05,219 I had thoughts. I had thoughts things... 377 00:23:05,220 --> 00:23:06,820 ..would be easier without her. 378 00:23:08,700 --> 00:23:10,419 I had those thoughts. 379 00:23:10,420 --> 00:23:13,140 Of course you did. You knew how hard it was with me. 380 00:23:15,340 --> 00:23:17,619 No. That's not true. 381 00:23:17,620 --> 00:23:19,220 I loved being your big brother. 382 00:23:20,580 --> 00:23:23,180 I quite liked being your little brother. 383 00:23:41,340 --> 00:23:46,220 MUSIC: Animal Nitrate by Suede 384 00:23:51,420 --> 00:23:52,939 Dance with me. 385 00:23:52,940 --> 00:23:55,259 No! Come on. Dance with me. 386 00:23:55,260 --> 00:23:58,380 Fuck off! No, dance with me. Come on. 387 00:24:02,420 --> 00:24:07,499 ♪ Like his dad, you know that he's had 388 00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:11,859 ♪ Animal nitrate in mind 389 00:24:11,860 --> 00:24:16,779 ♪ Oh, in your council home he jumped on your bones 390 00:24:16,780 --> 00:24:21,019 ♪ Now you're taking it time after time 391 00:24:21,020 --> 00:24:26,620 ♪ Oh, it turns you on, on... ♪ 392 00:24:41,220 --> 00:24:43,860 SIREN WAILS 393 00:25:38,340 --> 00:25:41,499 I'm guessing you'll be sleeping here. 394 00:25:41,500 --> 00:25:43,499 Thanks, yeah. 395 00:25:43,500 --> 00:25:45,860 I'll bring you in a cup of tea at seven. 396 00:26:16,460 --> 00:26:18,060 Once upon a time... 397 00:26:19,860 --> 00:26:21,500 ..there was a button... 398 00:26:23,220 --> 00:26:24,500 ..called Little Button... 399 00:26:27,260 --> 00:26:28,860 ..and she lived with her mum... 400 00:26:30,500 --> 00:26:32,739 ..Mummy Hat... 401 00:26:32,740 --> 00:26:34,260 ..and her dad, Daddy Shirt... 402 00:26:36,860 --> 00:26:38,500 ..and her sister... 403 00:26:39,660 --> 00:26:41,340 ..Sister Shoe... 404 00:26:43,860 --> 00:26:46,620 ..in a room above a factory. 405 00:26:48,420 --> 00:26:49,820 One day... 406 00:26:51,940 --> 00:26:53,540 One day she went to the beach... 407 00:26:57,500 --> 00:26:59,180 ..and she... 408 00:27:07,220 --> 00:27:10,260 SHE CRIES 409 00:27:14,940 --> 00:27:17,060 You wait there, OK, sweetheart? 410 00:27:20,140 --> 00:27:22,459 OK, I'll, er... I'll finish it off. 411 00:27:22,460 --> 00:27:24,459 I've got this. 412 00:27:24,460 --> 00:27:27,900 You take your time and then, er, then we'll climb up the hill, OK? 413 00:27:29,380 --> 00:27:33,139 I'm sorry. It's all right, darling. It's all right. It's all right. 414 00:27:33,140 --> 00:27:35,339 Hello! Hello, sweetheart! 415 00:27:35,340 --> 00:27:36,900 You're OK. 416 00:27:37,940 --> 00:27:41,699 You know, I've even got a story about Sister Shoes. 417 00:27:41,700 --> 00:27:43,539 I have. 418 00:27:43,540 --> 00:27:45,020 It's OK. 419 00:28:03,300 --> 00:28:07,259 Could you explain to us why the doctors are wrong? 420 00:28:07,260 --> 00:28:10,739 Marnie has a congenital muscular dystrophy. 421 00:28:10,740 --> 00:28:13,299 Her specific form has never been diagnosed, 422 00:28:13,300 --> 00:28:15,859 it's hard to diagnose, and therefore hard to treat, 423 00:28:15,860 --> 00:28:18,499 but I believe that treatments are possible. 424 00:28:18,500 --> 00:28:20,699 For instance, an experimental treatment 425 00:28:20,700 --> 00:28:22,779 called risdiplam might have an impact. 426 00:28:22,780 --> 00:28:24,219 My Lady, that drug 427 00:28:24,220 --> 00:28:27,019 is not licensed for use by NICE, the FDA, or the EMA 428 00:28:27,020 --> 00:28:28,299 for Marnie's condition. 429 00:28:28,300 --> 00:28:31,499 Er, right now it isn't, but drug use changes 430 00:28:31,500 --> 00:28:32,739 all the time. 431 00:28:32,740 --> 00:28:35,219 We're not here to guess as to what treatments might work. 432 00:28:35,220 --> 00:28:37,939 I agree. Please refrain from guesswork, Dr Pankerman. 433 00:28:37,940 --> 00:28:39,459 We're here to establish facts. 434 00:28:39,460 --> 00:28:42,059 My point is not that a cure is available, 435 00:28:42,060 --> 00:28:44,939 my point is that it might be available. 436 00:28:44,940 --> 00:28:48,419 We will investigate and make cases for treatments. 437 00:28:48,420 --> 00:28:51,420 And while we do so, we'll keep Marnie alive. 438 00:28:53,100 --> 00:28:54,900 No further questions. 439 00:29:00,460 --> 00:29:02,979 Talk me through your qualifications in PICU. 440 00:29:02,980 --> 00:29:04,619 15 years qualified. 441 00:29:04,620 --> 00:29:07,539 I'm an attending physician that works mainly in neurology. 442 00:29:07,540 --> 00:29:09,179 Sorry, you misunderstand me. 443 00:29:09,180 --> 00:29:13,579 I know it's another country's medical system, so it's complicated, 444 00:29:13,580 --> 00:29:17,699 but paediatric medicine, what is your specialism there? 445 00:29:17,700 --> 00:29:22,219 Unlike Dr Woodham, who is a generalist, I'm a neurologist. 446 00:29:22,220 --> 00:29:23,899 I work with all ages. 447 00:29:23,900 --> 00:29:25,579 I can understand the brain. 448 00:29:25,580 --> 00:29:27,339 Have you examined Marnie's brain? 449 00:29:27,340 --> 00:29:29,379 I haven't been to examine her face-to-face 450 00:29:29,380 --> 00:29:30,939 but I have looked at the scans. 451 00:29:30,940 --> 00:29:35,259 So this is just an opinion based on no direct examination? 452 00:29:35,260 --> 00:29:39,619 Your medical system has prevented me from examining Marnie. 453 00:29:39,620 --> 00:29:42,219 As such, my opinion is provisional. 454 00:29:42,220 --> 00:29:46,260 It is far from categoric but I do think the possibility exists. 455 00:29:47,340 --> 00:29:50,819 To be clear to the court, a second opinion was sought and given. 456 00:29:50,820 --> 00:29:53,419 The consultant asked a friend of hers from a neighbouring 457 00:29:53,420 --> 00:29:55,059 hospital to examine the girl. 458 00:29:55,060 --> 00:29:57,219 Unsurprisingly, she agreed with the consultant. 459 00:29:57,220 --> 00:29:58,979 Are you claiming that Professor Bradbury 460 00:29:58,980 --> 00:30:01,579 has not complied with her duty to the court? 461 00:30:01,580 --> 00:30:04,019 That's an extremely serious allegation to make. 462 00:30:04,020 --> 00:30:05,899 What is your evidence for it? 463 00:30:05,900 --> 00:30:09,099 No, I'm not saying that, I'm just saying that often 464 00:30:09,100 --> 00:30:11,220 colleagues support each other. 465 00:30:12,380 --> 00:30:15,819 Tell me, you have appeared in other proceedings concerning 466 00:30:15,820 --> 00:30:18,099 medical treatment for minors, have you not? 467 00:30:18,100 --> 00:30:21,299 Yes. How many cases where there is a decision to be made 468 00:30:21,300 --> 00:30:23,339 about the future care of a child? 469 00:30:23,340 --> 00:30:25,579 I don't know, maybe three. 470 00:30:25,580 --> 00:30:27,779 Well, this was just a simple Google search. 471 00:30:27,780 --> 00:30:31,179 We found evidence of you contributing to seven trials 472 00:30:31,180 --> 00:30:34,659 on this basis. Why do you think that is? 473 00:30:34,660 --> 00:30:36,979 I'm happy to help. 474 00:30:36,980 --> 00:30:41,379 To go against the establishment. Not many are, in my profession. 475 00:30:41,380 --> 00:30:44,339 A bit of aggression from them helps us, to be honest. 476 00:30:44,340 --> 00:30:47,019 What did you recommend, 477 00:30:47,020 --> 00:30:49,820 in all those cases, for the child involved? 478 00:30:52,220 --> 00:30:56,060 Have you ever recommended that ventilation should cease? 479 00:30:57,980 --> 00:30:59,540 No. 480 00:31:00,660 --> 00:31:02,500 I found evidence they should live. 481 00:31:04,620 --> 00:31:06,380 No further questions. 482 00:31:52,540 --> 00:31:55,499 KATIE: Hey. 483 00:31:55,500 --> 00:31:57,499 I followed you. 484 00:31:57,500 --> 00:31:59,299 Oh. 485 00:31:59,300 --> 00:32:01,379 Well, that's kids for you. 486 00:32:01,380 --> 00:32:02,979 One day they don't want to know, 487 00:32:02,980 --> 00:32:05,099 next day they're following you to church. 488 00:32:05,100 --> 00:32:09,499 Go ahead, Mum. Pray. I'm just... just here. 489 00:32:09,500 --> 00:32:10,860 No, it's OK. 490 00:32:12,540 --> 00:32:16,259 Maybe you'll have a thunderbolt moment and start believing in God. 491 00:32:16,260 --> 00:32:19,180 Yeah? Maybe I can be saved. 492 00:32:22,020 --> 00:32:25,099 You know they're only doing what they need to do to win this? 493 00:32:25,100 --> 00:32:27,419 Yeah, I understand that. 494 00:32:27,420 --> 00:32:30,019 I mean, what they're doing, they're... Dad doesn't... 495 00:32:30,020 --> 00:32:32,580 Mum... that's not my problem. 496 00:32:34,940 --> 00:32:36,700 Was he the best they could do? 497 00:32:38,860 --> 00:32:40,579 SHE SIGHS 498 00:32:40,580 --> 00:32:42,300 I thought... 499 00:32:43,860 --> 00:32:46,580 Would you trust him with Marnie? 500 00:32:54,740 --> 00:32:56,300 No. 501 00:33:03,500 --> 00:33:05,620 I don't think she'd want this. 502 00:33:09,540 --> 00:33:11,539 Sorry. 503 00:33:11,540 --> 00:33:13,180 I don't. 504 00:33:14,540 --> 00:33:16,060 You're a brave girl. 505 00:33:17,660 --> 00:33:19,260 You're always so brave. 506 00:33:26,300 --> 00:33:28,299 Mrs Lloyd, 507 00:33:28,300 --> 00:33:30,860 tell me why you oppose the hospital in this action. 508 00:33:32,300 --> 00:33:35,419 Because I believe my daughter should live. 509 00:33:35,420 --> 00:33:36,980 Even though she's in pain? 510 00:33:38,980 --> 00:33:40,899 I don't believe that. 511 00:33:40,900 --> 00:33:43,459 You've seen the reports. You've been present 512 00:33:43,460 --> 00:33:46,059 at Marnie being suctioned, where it's claimed a clear pain 513 00:33:46,060 --> 00:33:47,459 response has been present. 514 00:33:47,460 --> 00:33:48,819 I've never seen that pain. 515 00:33:48,820 --> 00:33:50,820 My Lady... If I'd have seen that pain... 516 00:33:52,140 --> 00:33:53,659 ..we wouldn't be here now. 517 00:33:53,660 --> 00:33:56,019 I believe we can allow Mrs Lloyd to have her own 518 00:33:56,020 --> 00:33:57,660 version of events, counsel. 519 00:34:02,060 --> 00:34:04,540 Why do you think the hospital disagrees with you? 520 00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:08,740 Um... 521 00:34:12,380 --> 00:34:15,019 Er, that's a big question. 522 00:34:15,020 --> 00:34:16,420 Take your time. 523 00:34:19,780 --> 00:34:21,900 I can't... um... 524 00:34:25,180 --> 00:34:30,579 I can't tell you the amount of times that you are encouraged, 525 00:34:30,580 --> 00:34:33,059 as a parent of a disabled child, 526 00:34:33,060 --> 00:34:34,460 to just... 527 00:34:35,740 --> 00:34:38,259 ..to just give up. 528 00:34:38,260 --> 00:34:42,019 We had it all through this... pandemic. 529 00:34:42,020 --> 00:34:46,859 I had friends told that their kids wouldn't get machines. 530 00:34:46,860 --> 00:34:51,979 And I always knew I had to keep Marnie safe because if she did get 531 00:34:51,980 --> 00:34:56,980 the damn thing, I didn't know that she would survive it because... 532 00:34:59,380 --> 00:35:02,539 ..I didn't know that she would get the help... 533 00:35:02,540 --> 00:35:03,980 ..to survive. 534 00:35:06,820 --> 00:35:09,659 And then we made it out the other side and... 535 00:35:09,660 --> 00:35:11,180 ..and suddenly... 536 00:35:13,580 --> 00:35:15,300 My point is that, um... 537 00:35:16,860 --> 00:35:21,420 ..people say that they care about disabled people, but... 538 00:35:23,660 --> 00:35:26,260 ..always, all the time... 539 00:35:27,580 --> 00:35:29,260 ..I see different. 540 00:35:31,580 --> 00:35:34,499 Marnie's my, er... 541 00:35:34,500 --> 00:35:41,979 Marnie's my beautiful child and it's an honour to be her mother. 542 00:35:41,980 --> 00:35:44,980 So I've learned to put my shoulder down. 543 00:35:46,660 --> 00:35:49,340 I just put my shoulder down and I just... 544 00:35:50,580 --> 00:35:52,620 ..I just keep charging. 545 00:36:30,780 --> 00:36:32,500 Ready? 546 00:36:36,380 --> 00:36:38,739 You know what you used to say to me any time 547 00:36:38,740 --> 00:36:40,580 I had something difficult to do? No. 548 00:36:42,180 --> 00:36:45,019 Mum would tell me to try to be brave. You told me 549 00:36:45,020 --> 00:36:47,859 I didn't need to try, I was already brave. 550 00:36:47,860 --> 00:36:49,699 Well, I'm not you. 551 00:36:49,700 --> 00:36:51,379 You want me to come? 552 00:36:51,380 --> 00:36:52,939 You don't like crowds. 553 00:36:52,940 --> 00:36:54,580 I will, though, if you want me to. 554 00:36:58,500 --> 00:37:00,220 I can do this on my own. 555 00:37:31,060 --> 00:37:32,940 Are you all right? Yeah. 556 00:37:36,460 --> 00:37:38,579 Hi. Hi. 557 00:37:38,580 --> 00:37:40,459 I like the smart threads. 558 00:37:40,460 --> 00:37:41,500 New? 559 00:37:42,860 --> 00:37:44,300 Yeah, well... ish. 560 00:37:45,500 --> 00:37:47,500 We're here for you both. 561 00:37:49,940 --> 00:37:51,620 Yeah. Well, we better go in. 562 00:38:12,100 --> 00:38:13,620 All rise. 563 00:38:31,900 --> 00:38:35,499 These cases are clearly never easy. 564 00:38:35,500 --> 00:38:37,580 This case particularly so. 565 00:38:39,100 --> 00:38:42,139 I recognise that the strong presumption in favour 566 00:38:42,140 --> 00:38:44,379 of a course of action that will prolong life 567 00:38:44,380 --> 00:38:47,419 is not an irrebuttable one. 568 00:38:47,420 --> 00:38:51,419 It reflects the position that life, as precious as it is, 569 00:38:51,420 --> 00:38:53,819 cannot be, and indeed should not be 570 00:38:53,820 --> 00:38:58,060 preserved at all costs in the face of its natural conclusion. 571 00:38:59,460 --> 00:39:02,539 But equally I recognise that 572 00:39:02,540 --> 00:39:05,819 Marnie Lloyd is clearly an exceptional, bright, 573 00:39:05,820 --> 00:39:08,819 happy and well-loved child. 574 00:39:08,820 --> 00:39:12,059 And it is plain from Dr Woodham's evidence, and the evidence 575 00:39:12,060 --> 00:39:15,259 given by Mr and Mrs Lloyd, that Marnie's parents have been 576 00:39:15,260 --> 00:39:18,859 doughty defenders of their daughter's best interests 577 00:39:18,860 --> 00:39:21,780 over many years, to her undoubted benefit. 578 00:39:23,340 --> 00:39:25,659 The position adopted by Mrs Lloyd 579 00:39:25,660 --> 00:39:28,339 before the court is eminently reasonable 580 00:39:28,340 --> 00:39:30,260 and wholly understandable. 581 00:39:31,660 --> 00:39:36,259 It represents a continuation of the love and dedication 582 00:39:36,260 --> 00:39:39,860 that she and her family have shown to Marnie throughout her life. 583 00:39:41,780 --> 00:39:46,820 This is a case of huge complication and immense difficulty. 584 00:39:48,020 --> 00:39:50,939 I'm going to break my thinking into four areas. 585 00:39:50,940 --> 00:39:54,060 HE BREATHES RAGGEDLY So we begin with the evidence... 586 00:40:08,180 --> 00:40:10,699 It's a panic attack. It'll pass. 587 00:40:10,700 --> 00:40:13,539 GASPING: It's just a panic attack. It'll pass. 588 00:40:13,540 --> 00:40:14,660 I've had them before. 589 00:40:16,500 --> 00:40:18,059 Is he all right? It's all right. 590 00:40:18,060 --> 00:40:21,139 He's just having a panic attack. He's had them before. Thank you. 591 00:40:21,140 --> 00:40:23,179 ANDREW SOBS 592 00:40:23,180 --> 00:40:26,699 All right. Deep breaths, come on. 593 00:40:26,700 --> 00:40:29,019 You're OK. It's all right. 594 00:40:29,020 --> 00:40:31,379 And so, for all those reasons, 595 00:40:31,380 --> 00:40:34,819 I will make the declaration sought by the hospital... 596 00:40:34,820 --> 00:40:37,059 NICCI GASPS, SOBS 597 00:40:37,060 --> 00:40:40,019 that the continuation of life-sustaining treatment 598 00:40:40,020 --> 00:40:43,819 is not in Marnie's best interests. 599 00:40:43,820 --> 00:40:47,700 NICCI SOBS 600 00:40:53,820 --> 00:40:56,220 INDISTINCT CHATTER 601 00:40:57,700 --> 00:41:00,499 We'll sort it with Derek and talk about a potential appeal. Derek? 602 00:41:00,500 --> 00:41:02,579 Yes, absolutely. 603 00:41:02,580 --> 00:41:04,779 Look, it's hard now, I know, but... 604 00:41:04,780 --> 00:41:08,100 INDISTINCT CHATTER 605 00:41:39,180 --> 00:41:40,940 Can we go? Let's just go. 606 00:42:06,620 --> 00:42:08,260 HE EXHALES 607 00:42:13,220 --> 00:42:15,660 DOORBELL 608 00:42:19,820 --> 00:42:21,340 No, I'll get it. 609 00:42:25,860 --> 00:42:28,459 Hello. Hi, Tom. 610 00:42:28,460 --> 00:42:30,060 Is, um...? 611 00:42:33,220 --> 00:42:35,859 Hello. Hi. 612 00:42:35,860 --> 00:42:38,819 I was just... writing to you. 613 00:42:38,820 --> 00:42:40,020 Saying what? 614 00:42:41,300 --> 00:42:43,259 Sh... shall I leave? 615 00:42:43,260 --> 00:42:46,219 Well, no. We'll just... We'll go for a walk. 616 00:42:46,220 --> 00:42:47,860 I always like a walk. 617 00:42:54,020 --> 00:42:56,139 All right? Yeah. 618 00:42:56,140 --> 00:42:57,420 OK. 619 00:43:02,740 --> 00:43:04,620 They want me to appeal. 620 00:43:06,060 --> 00:43:07,939 Of course they do. 621 00:43:07,940 --> 00:43:10,299 I shouldn't have told them about your drinking. 622 00:43:10,300 --> 00:43:13,499 I'm ashamed that I did that. I should... You needed to win. 623 00:43:13,500 --> 00:43:15,859 You-you were... 624 00:43:15,860 --> 00:43:19,100 You ARE an excellent dad. 625 00:43:21,740 --> 00:43:24,819 I'm not saying you're right, and I'm not... 626 00:43:24,820 --> 00:43:26,220 But I'm... 627 00:43:28,460 --> 00:43:29,980 But I'm-I'm stopping it. 628 00:43:35,540 --> 00:43:37,260 You're sure? 629 00:44:31,660 --> 00:44:33,180 Morning! 630 00:44:35,340 --> 00:44:37,659 This is an unexpected bounty. 631 00:44:37,660 --> 00:44:40,579 Yeah, well, they're mostly ones you've sold us. 632 00:44:40,580 --> 00:44:42,619 What's brought this on? 633 00:44:42,620 --> 00:44:46,060 Um, well, you won't be seeing us again for a while. 634 00:44:47,580 --> 00:44:49,820 She's a smasher, your Marnie. 635 00:45:14,060 --> 00:45:15,940 I don't want her to die here. 636 00:45:19,620 --> 00:45:21,539 Um... 637 00:45:21,540 --> 00:45:25,859 I'm afraid, as I understand it, she has to. 638 00:45:25,860 --> 00:45:27,819 Oh. 639 00:45:27,820 --> 00:45:31,179 I, um... I asked the same thing, 640 00:45:31,180 --> 00:45:33,659 back at the beginning, I asked whether we could, you know, 641 00:45:33,660 --> 00:45:36,620 get her home, and I was told that she'd die in the ambulance. 642 00:45:38,060 --> 00:45:39,899 Right. 643 00:45:39,900 --> 00:45:45,099 What they have said is once they've turned off all the machines and, 644 00:45:45,100 --> 00:45:48,299 you know, let her... go... 645 00:45:48,300 --> 00:45:50,419 ..um... 646 00:45:50,420 --> 00:45:52,899 ..they can put her in an ambulance for us 647 00:45:52,900 --> 00:45:55,780 and we can get her home then and put her to bed. 648 00:45:59,060 --> 00:46:01,739 She'd be, er... 649 00:46:01,740 --> 00:46:03,379 She'd be dead. 650 00:46:03,380 --> 00:46:10,580 Or, um, well, we could explore the, um... the transplant option. 651 00:46:12,580 --> 00:46:14,100 Right. 652 00:46:16,100 --> 00:46:18,059 What do you think? 653 00:46:18,060 --> 00:46:21,540 I decided I'd leave that question to you. 654 00:46:22,940 --> 00:46:24,060 Oh. 655 00:46:25,220 --> 00:46:29,459 Well, thank you for researching it 656 00:46:29,460 --> 00:46:32,740 but... I want us to decide together. 657 00:46:34,500 --> 00:46:36,020 Yeah. Um... 658 00:46:38,420 --> 00:46:40,379 I mean, I genuinely... 659 00:46:40,380 --> 00:46:42,020 I'm not sure on this. Um... 660 00:46:45,780 --> 00:46:49,539 I think Marnie would quite like to 661 00:46:49,540 --> 00:46:51,780 be back in her own bed... 662 00:46:52,980 --> 00:46:54,460 ..and, um... 663 00:46:56,540 --> 00:46:59,899 ..and I think Marnie would quite like to be useful, you know, 664 00:46:59,900 --> 00:47:01,580 to other people. 665 00:47:02,780 --> 00:47:05,539 Katie? 666 00:47:05,540 --> 00:47:06,899 Me? 667 00:47:06,900 --> 00:47:08,460 Yes, please. 668 00:47:11,020 --> 00:47:12,580 Um... 669 00:47:14,620 --> 00:47:15,940 I think... 670 00:47:20,140 --> 00:47:21,940 I think transplant. 671 00:47:25,380 --> 00:47:28,300 Could they do it quickly? They could make that happen, yeah. 672 00:47:34,820 --> 00:47:36,900 Well, let's make it happen. 673 00:48:19,460 --> 00:48:20,900 Will we hear it? 674 00:48:21,940 --> 00:48:25,019 Will we hear it when she dies? 675 00:48:25,020 --> 00:48:26,620 There might be some breathing. 676 00:48:28,220 --> 00:48:30,619 But will it sound like she's in pain? 677 00:48:30,620 --> 00:48:32,099 That's unlikely. 678 00:48:32,100 --> 00:48:35,379 Chances are she'll just pass. 679 00:48:35,380 --> 00:48:39,260 Can we call it dying? Not letting go or passing on, just... 680 00:48:41,140 --> 00:48:42,659 ..just dying. 681 00:48:42,660 --> 00:48:44,339 With the morphine she's on, 682 00:48:44,340 --> 00:48:46,340 I don't believe she'll feel any pain. 683 00:48:51,380 --> 00:48:53,580 Have you got anything you want to say to her? 684 00:48:58,340 --> 00:49:01,100 I think she knows how I feel. 685 00:49:03,540 --> 00:49:05,340 I love you, Marnie. 686 00:49:07,020 --> 00:49:09,579 I love you, too. 687 00:49:09,580 --> 00:49:11,020 I love you so much. 688 00:49:12,700 --> 00:49:14,819 I've got something I want to say. 689 00:49:14,820 --> 00:49:15,860 OK. 690 00:49:24,380 --> 00:49:28,220 KATIE WHISPERS 691 00:49:47,060 --> 00:49:48,380 Are you ready? 692 00:49:50,220 --> 00:49:52,059 Are the transplant team ready? 693 00:49:52,060 --> 00:49:53,299 Yes. 694 00:49:53,300 --> 00:49:56,379 Um, so, um... what will happen? 695 00:49:56,380 --> 00:49:58,459 Once we've taken out the breathing tube, 696 00:49:58,460 --> 00:50:01,619 we'll let her breathe on her own. She may take a few breaths. 697 00:50:01,620 --> 00:50:03,580 You will have a little time to hold her. 698 00:50:04,540 --> 00:50:09,659 Then her heart will slow and then it will stop. 699 00:50:09,660 --> 00:50:13,100 When that happens, we need to get her next door, straight away. 700 00:50:21,140 --> 00:50:23,139 OK. 701 00:50:23,140 --> 00:50:24,900 Then I-I think we're ready. 702 00:50:29,780 --> 00:50:31,220 OK. 703 00:50:46,020 --> 00:50:50,460 SOFT BEEPING 704 00:50:59,140 --> 00:51:02,060 SNIFFLING 705 00:51:22,700 --> 00:51:24,340 There we go. 706 00:51:26,100 --> 00:51:27,940 There we go, lamb. 707 00:51:36,860 --> 00:51:39,779 Goodnight. Sleep tight. 708 00:51:39,780 --> 00:51:42,020 I love you. I love you. I love you. 709 00:51:46,620 --> 00:51:49,139 Was that the wrong thing to say? 710 00:51:49,140 --> 00:51:51,220 No. 711 00:53:07,980 --> 00:53:09,620 LIGHTER IGNITES 712 00:53:16,500 --> 00:53:18,180 Well, I'll, um... 713 00:53:19,340 --> 00:53:20,980 Get in the van. 714 00:53:23,100 --> 00:53:26,700 I don't know where we're going but we're going there together. 715 00:53:28,540 --> 00:53:31,779 Right? I agree with her. 716 00:53:31,780 --> 00:53:33,420 OK. Thanks. 717 00:53:59,460 --> 00:54:02,180 I'm going to miss her... so much. 718 00:54:04,980 --> 00:54:06,900 You know I will too, right? 719 00:54:09,500 --> 00:54:11,820 You even thinking you need to say that just... 720 00:54:13,260 --> 00:54:15,220 ..makes me feel like such an arsehole. 721 00:54:17,020 --> 00:54:20,219 We made her happy and... 722 00:54:20,220 --> 00:54:21,980 ..and that's... 723 00:54:25,300 --> 00:54:28,300 Well, she made us happy, too. She really did. 724 00:54:39,180 --> 00:54:41,180 REAR DOOR OPENS 725 00:54:46,540 --> 00:54:48,260 So, where to? 726 00:54:50,260 --> 00:54:51,979 I could be hungry. 727 00:54:51,980 --> 00:54:54,979 You could? Mm. Well, that's shocking. 728 00:54:54,980 --> 00:54:57,779 That's a great idea. Um... 729 00:54:57,780 --> 00:55:00,379 ..the Italian place by the library? 730 00:55:00,380 --> 00:55:01,939 Yeah. Good. 731 00:55:01,940 --> 00:55:03,859 Music? You want some music? 732 00:55:03,860 --> 00:55:06,139 Oh. I, er... 733 00:55:06,140 --> 00:55:08,660 Your dongle, it's, uh... it's busted. 734 00:55:10,260 --> 00:55:11,979 You broke my dongle? 735 00:55:11,980 --> 00:55:15,539 Yeah. Yeah, I snapped it. I snapped it in anger. 736 00:55:15,540 --> 00:55:17,379 Well, shall I sing something, then? 737 00:55:17,380 --> 00:55:18,660 KATIE CHUCKLES 738 00:55:20,020 --> 00:55:23,139 Uh... I've got my music. 739 00:55:23,140 --> 00:55:24,660 Oh, she's got her music. 740 00:55:26,580 --> 00:55:29,020 Let's hear it, then. All right. 741 00:55:31,260 --> 00:55:36,940 MUSIC: 20/20 by Rimon 742 00:55:42,700 --> 00:55:44,779 ♪ Whoa, whoa Woo, ooh 743 00:55:44,780 --> 00:55:48,499 ♪ Whoa, whoa Woo, ooh, ooh 744 00:55:48,500 --> 00:55:52,820 ♪ Whoa, hmm 745 00:55:54,580 --> 00:56:00,219 ♪ I see your sunlight through the window, it's magic, uh 746 00:56:00,220 --> 00:56:05,579 ♪ My thoughts and body were just caught by this traffic, uh 747 00:56:05,580 --> 00:56:11,139 ♪ You watched time pass while I kept myself distracted, uh 748 00:56:11,140 --> 00:56:16,059 ♪ Will you forgive now that I'm paying attention? 749 00:56:16,060 --> 00:56:21,939 ♪ Uh, I see your sunlight through the window, it's magic, uh 750 00:56:21,940 --> 00:56:27,339 ♪ My thoughts and body were just caught by this traffic, uh 751 00:56:27,340 --> 00:56:30,259 ♪ Where did our time go? 752 00:56:30,260 --> 00:56:33,179 ♪ Encounters beautiful 753 00:56:33,180 --> 00:56:41,180 ♪ Only you are the one to break the shackles of my burden 754 00:56:41,620 --> 00:56:47,099 ♪ Are the one to show me glory in the moment 755 00:56:47,100 --> 00:56:48,739 ♪ Cannot pay you back 756 00:56:48,740 --> 00:56:52,499 ♪ Even if I could, I can only fall on my knees 757 00:56:52,500 --> 00:56:57,539 ♪ Show my gratitude for your deeds 758 00:56:57,540 --> 00:56:59,619 ♪ I see your sunlight through 759 00:56:59,620 --> 00:57:02,779 ♪ The window, it's magic, uh 760 00:57:02,780 --> 00:57:05,299 ♪ My thoughts and body were just 761 00:57:05,300 --> 00:57:08,419 ♪ Caught by this traffic, uh 762 00:57:08,420 --> 00:57:10,379 ♪ You watched time pass while 763 00:57:10,380 --> 00:57:13,540 ♪ I kept myself distracted. ♪ 89561

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