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1
00:00:02,020 --> 00:00:04,139
I couldn't see her any more.
I couldn't see the...
2
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..things that made her HER.
3
00:00:05,580 --> 00:00:07,459
They want to switch off her
machines,
4
00:00:07,460 --> 00:00:08,979
and we want to keep them on.
5
00:00:08,980 --> 00:00:11,259
They say she's in a lot of pain!
She is still your child!
6
00:00:11,260 --> 00:00:12,979
Yes! Yes, she is!
7
00:00:12,980 --> 00:00:14,579
So you just left her and me?
8
00:00:14,580 --> 00:00:16,619
That makes it
sound like I abandoned you.
9
00:00:16,620 --> 00:00:18,179
Yeah, cos you did.
10
00:00:18,180 --> 00:00:22,179
However you feel about what your
parents are doing, it's not about
11
00:00:22,180 --> 00:00:24,419
picking sides.
Of course it is.
12
00:00:24,420 --> 00:00:26,259
And I'm on Marnie's side.
13
00:00:26,260 --> 00:00:29,179
We believe we can suggest a bias in
the treatment Marnie has received
14
00:00:29,180 --> 00:00:30,739
from Samantha Woodham.
15
00:00:30,740 --> 00:00:32,299
She perforated an artery.
16
00:00:32,300 --> 00:00:34,419
It sounds pretty deadly to me.
17
00:00:34,420 --> 00:00:36,659
Marnie, she's complicated.
18
00:00:36,660 --> 00:00:40,459
But... you know, she's, er,
she's joyous.
19
00:00:40,460 --> 00:00:42,219
I really miss you.
20
00:00:42,220 --> 00:00:45,259
Do you think you'll win, Nicci?
Any change in her condition?
21
00:00:45,260 --> 00:00:46,900
Can I just go and see my daughter?
22
00:00:48,180 --> 00:00:49,980
Can't we do better than this?
23
00:00:51,340 --> 00:00:55,419
This programme contains some strong
language and some scenes which
some viewers may find upsetting
24
00:00:55,420 --> 00:00:58,139
BABY GURGLES
25
00:00:58,140 --> 00:00:59,740
HE CHUCKLES
26
00:01:00,820 --> 00:01:02,499
Hey.
27
00:01:02,500 --> 00:01:04,499
She finds wallpaper funny.
28
00:01:04,500 --> 00:01:07,659
Does she? Are you sure that's OK?
29
00:01:07,660 --> 00:01:09,139
The steam and...
30
00:01:09,140 --> 00:01:10,979
Ah, I think it's fine.
31
00:01:10,980 --> 00:01:12,979
Yeah? Yeah.
32
00:01:12,980 --> 00:01:15,779
Should have probably done
it before she got here.
33
00:01:15,780 --> 00:01:17,099
She loves it.
34
00:01:17,100 --> 00:01:20,139
Look at that smile.
I was thinking maybe a picnic.
35
00:01:20,140 --> 00:01:22,259
Ah, it's a bit cold.
36
00:01:22,260 --> 00:01:26,739
Yeah, we'll just wrap up, won't we?
We'll wrap up.
37
00:01:26,740 --> 00:01:28,619
You going to make sandwiches?
38
00:01:28,620 --> 00:01:30,899
I'm not going to make sandwiches,
sexist!
39
00:01:30,900 --> 00:01:33,619
We'll buy sandwiches. Ah.
40
00:01:33,620 --> 00:01:35,739
I'll get you a sausage roll
if you're lucky.
41
00:01:35,740 --> 00:01:38,819
Oh, I'm in!
42
00:01:38,820 --> 00:01:42,739
BABY GURGLES
Ah! She finds that funny too.
43
00:01:42,740 --> 00:01:44,740
Ah, no, no! Ah!
44
00:02:01,260 --> 00:02:02,979
RADIO: ..factors at play
45
00:02:02,980 --> 00:02:06,019
when the life of a young
child is at stake.
46
00:02:06,020 --> 00:02:08,139
Looking at the papers this morning,
47
00:02:08,140 --> 00:02:09,419
this makes the front page
48
00:02:09,420 --> 00:02:10,780
on nearly every single...
49
00:02:15,500 --> 00:02:16,859
ANDREW SIGHS
50
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Ready?
51
00:02:18,580 --> 00:02:19,620
Yeah.
52
00:02:23,260 --> 00:02:25,660
It's going to be OK.
Yeah, yeah.
53
00:02:30,940 --> 00:02:32,940
Mint?
Ah, I just brushed my teeth.
54
00:02:34,460 --> 00:02:35,980
You need a mint, mate.
55
00:02:46,860 --> 00:02:48,500
You keep them.
56
00:02:56,220 --> 00:02:59,219
Nicci! Nicci! Nicci! Nicci!
57
00:02:59,220 --> 00:03:03,379
REPORTERS CLAMOUR
58
00:03:03,380 --> 00:03:06,180
We're just going to go straight in,
thank you very much.
59
00:03:28,580 --> 00:03:29,939
Pre-match huddle?
60
00:03:29,940 --> 00:03:31,819
Yeah. OK.
61
00:03:31,820 --> 00:03:33,539
A rundown of who's here.
62
00:03:33,540 --> 00:03:37,219
Francesca Camara, representing the
hospital and Dr Samantha Woodham.
63
00:03:37,220 --> 00:03:40,299
She's very good.
Beatrice Shrigley, working with
64
00:03:40,300 --> 00:03:43,539
Greg Richardson and the Children
and Family Legal Services team.
65
00:03:43,540 --> 00:03:46,379
Representing Marnie.
Yeah, we met Mr Richardson.
66
00:03:46,380 --> 00:03:47,779
Good lawyers, but so are we.
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00:03:47,780 --> 00:03:50,100
We're going to save Marnie's life,
Mrs Lloyd.
68
00:03:54,020 --> 00:03:56,460
We're going to do something
special here today.
69
00:03:58,380 --> 00:03:59,860
Yeah, good.
70
00:04:05,980 --> 00:04:08,579
How long have you been Marnie's
paediatric consultant?
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00:04:08,580 --> 00:04:11,499
I have observed Marnie in PICU
for close to seven years.
72
00:04:11,500 --> 00:04:13,539
She's a patient I know very well.
73
00:04:13,540 --> 00:04:16,940
And will you tell us what you think
the best treatment is for her now?
74
00:04:21,460 --> 00:04:24,699
I am sorry to say that I think
we should stop all treatments.
75
00:04:24,700 --> 00:04:28,699
I believe the life-sustaining
treatments we are currently
76
00:04:28,700 --> 00:04:32,859
giving are causing her to suffer
without any prospect of helping her.
77
00:04:32,860 --> 00:04:35,939
How would you describe Marnie's
current interaction with the world?
78
00:04:35,940 --> 00:04:39,419
She will never,
in my medical opinion,
79
00:04:39,420 --> 00:04:41,939
leave ventilated breathing support.
80
00:04:41,940 --> 00:04:44,419
She shows little response to stimuli
81
00:04:44,420 --> 00:04:46,579
and her brain scans show
irreversible damage.
82
00:04:46,580 --> 00:04:49,499
So her conscious experience?
83
00:04:49,500 --> 00:04:50,739
In my judgment,
84
00:04:50,740 --> 00:04:54,420
right now, she has very little,
if any, conscious experience.
85
00:04:56,420 --> 00:04:58,180
No further questions.
86
00:05:06,700 --> 00:05:09,899
How many children have you
treated like Marnie?
87
00:05:09,900 --> 00:05:14,099
No case is alike, but I have treated
88
00:05:14,100 --> 00:05:17,499
maybe 20 or 25 children with
severe muscular dystrophy.
89
00:05:17,500 --> 00:05:20,619
How many end up in a situation
where, in your opinion,
90
00:05:20,620 --> 00:05:23,699
treatment can no
longer be of use?
91
00:05:23,700 --> 00:05:25,939
I couldn't tell you that exactly.
92
00:05:25,940 --> 00:05:27,620
How many have died in your care?
93
00:05:29,580 --> 00:05:30,779
Six.
94
00:05:30,780 --> 00:05:33,539
The deterioration in each case was
similar to what we've seen
95
00:05:33,540 --> 00:05:34,619
with Marnie?
96
00:05:34,620 --> 00:05:39,179
No cases are alike. And Marnie's
specific condition is unique.
97
00:05:39,180 --> 00:05:42,779
In fact, as you say,
it is as yet undiagnosed.
98
00:05:42,780 --> 00:05:45,699
As happens frequently with
neuromuscular disorders.
99
00:05:45,700 --> 00:05:49,419
But as it is undiagnosed,
how can you be 100% sure that
100
00:05:49,420 --> 00:05:52,139
continuing treatment is futile?
101
00:05:52,140 --> 00:05:54,819
I am as certain as I can be.
102
00:05:54,820 --> 00:05:56,179
And if I were to tell you
103
00:05:56,180 --> 00:05:59,100
that there are doctors who believe
they can treat Marnie?
104
00:06:00,780 --> 00:06:05,179
Marnie's conscious experience,
another complicated area, is it not?
105
00:06:05,180 --> 00:06:06,539
Yes.
106
00:06:06,540 --> 00:06:08,139
Have there been examples,
107
00:06:08,140 --> 00:06:12,459
to your knowledge, of children with
severe brain damage who recover?
108
00:06:12,460 --> 00:06:15,699
I do not believe it is likely
there will be any
109
00:06:15,700 --> 00:06:17,699
miracle improvement.
110
00:06:17,700 --> 00:06:20,579
Of course, you must have
your beliefs.
111
00:06:20,580 --> 00:06:22,900
Let us discuss pain.
112
00:06:24,060 --> 00:06:26,699
Ventilation itself isn't painful,
is it?
113
00:06:26,700 --> 00:06:29,259
No, but suctioning is
very unpleasant.
114
00:06:29,260 --> 00:06:30,619
And how often does that happen?
115
00:06:30,620 --> 00:06:31,979
Several times a day.
116
00:06:31,980 --> 00:06:35,259
And if Marnie has very little,
if any, conscious experience,
117
00:06:35,260 --> 00:06:38,419
in your opinion,
how would she feel pain
118
00:06:38,420 --> 00:06:41,059
in these isolated
suctioning incidents?
119
00:06:41,060 --> 00:06:44,299
There are autonomic
responses from Marnie
120
00:06:44,300 --> 00:06:46,619
that do, I'm afraid, suggest pain.
121
00:06:46,620 --> 00:06:49,019
You cannot have it both ways,
Dr Woodham.
122
00:06:49,020 --> 00:06:51,579
Either she doesn't have
a conscious experience,
123
00:06:51,580 --> 00:06:54,259
in which case she isn't in pain,
or she does.
124
00:06:54,260 --> 00:06:56,379
You're wrong.
125
00:06:56,380 --> 00:07:00,299
We have seen a series of reactions,
from spasms to
126
00:07:00,300 --> 00:07:05,139
changing heart rates, which do
suggest that while her conscious
127
00:07:05,140 --> 00:07:10,940
experience is extremely limited,
her pain response is still there.
128
00:07:15,060 --> 00:07:20,339
Let me take you back to
2016, if that's OK?
129
00:07:20,340 --> 00:07:22,619
Sure.
130
00:07:22,620 --> 00:07:24,779
May 24th.
131
00:07:24,780 --> 00:07:26,979
Marnie presented with an infection.
132
00:07:26,980 --> 00:07:30,419
Yes. Um, I would need
to consult my notes.
133
00:07:30,420 --> 00:07:33,659
You had to put in a
central venous catheter.
134
00:07:33,660 --> 00:07:35,100
A central line.
135
00:07:36,660 --> 00:07:38,179
Yes. And it went wrong.
136
00:07:38,180 --> 00:07:40,299
You perforated an artery.
137
00:07:40,300 --> 00:07:42,939
Which led to distal ischemia.
Yes.
138
00:07:42,940 --> 00:07:45,979
You needed to call in a vascular
surgeon to repair the damage.
139
00:07:45,980 --> 00:07:49,899
This incident was referred up to the
consultants' group and it was seen
140
00:07:49,900 --> 00:07:53,059
to be an unfortunate complication of
a competently performed procedure.
141
00:07:53,060 --> 00:07:55,779
"Competently performed"?
142
00:07:55,780 --> 00:07:58,339
How can something be
"competently performed"
143
00:07:58,340 --> 00:08:01,179
when it almost leads to ischemia?
144
00:08:01,180 --> 00:08:03,500
That is what they concluded.
145
00:08:06,380 --> 00:08:08,020
We are human beings.
146
00:08:09,340 --> 00:08:14,219
And... I am sorry it happened...
147
00:08:14,220 --> 00:08:17,500
..and I am grateful there was no
damage to Marnie in the long term.
148
00:08:19,900 --> 00:08:23,100
What do you know of unconscious
bias in the medical profession?
149
00:08:24,420 --> 00:08:26,979
Well, it's something that we're
all concerned with.
150
00:08:26,980 --> 00:08:30,019
A doctor in a raft is told only
seven people can
151
00:08:30,020 --> 00:08:32,659
survive on the rations they have.
152
00:08:32,660 --> 00:08:35,019
He has to make a decision as to
who to save.
153
00:08:35,020 --> 00:08:38,979
He or she. I do beg your pardon,
Dr Woodham.
154
00:08:38,980 --> 00:08:42,259
How does he or she
make the judgment?
155
00:08:42,260 --> 00:08:44,579
We do not ration care
in this country.
156
00:08:44,580 --> 00:08:47,059
You're denying that during Covid
there was rationing of care
157
00:08:47,060 --> 00:08:49,299
for disabled people?
There was a prioritisation.
158
00:08:49,300 --> 00:08:51,140
Who do you prioritise?
159
00:08:55,420 --> 00:08:58,219
Now, we happen to have
some correspondence
160
00:08:58,220 --> 00:09:00,419
that was passed to us
at very late notice.
161
00:09:00,420 --> 00:09:01,619
My Lady!
162
00:09:01,620 --> 00:09:04,059
I apologise enormously, My Lady.
It was this morning.
163
00:09:04,060 --> 00:09:06,179
I emailed the court as soon as
I received it.
164
00:09:06,180 --> 00:09:08,100
I received no email.
165
00:09:09,140 --> 00:09:11,500
Do you have copies for the others?
Yes, My Lady.
166
00:09:16,940 --> 00:09:19,499
My Lady, we have no means
of verifying this document.
167
00:09:19,500 --> 00:09:21,340
We can ask the witness.
168
00:09:23,180 --> 00:09:25,100
Did this email come from you?
169
00:09:34,540 --> 00:09:36,060
How did you get this?
170
00:09:39,260 --> 00:09:40,819
Yes.
171
00:09:40,820 --> 00:09:42,859
Then I'll allow it.
172
00:09:42,860 --> 00:09:46,459
This is a correspondence between
you and a bed manager about
173
00:09:46,460 --> 00:09:51,139
how to move people out of PICU in
preparation for the Covid outbreak.
174
00:09:51,140 --> 00:09:54,099
Dated February 2020.
175
00:09:54,100 --> 00:09:59,699
They ask you what they should do
about bed 16 and you reply,
176
00:09:59,700 --> 00:10:02,619
"Bed 16 shouldn't be there,
177
00:10:02,620 --> 00:10:06,019
"the parents have been clinging to
hope without there being any."
178
00:10:06,020 --> 00:10:08,419
I was expressing a medical opinion.
179
00:10:08,420 --> 00:10:11,620
I... regret how it sounds.
180
00:10:14,580 --> 00:10:18,739
Do you believe that sometimes, for
patients, as a doctor, that the best
181
00:10:18,740 --> 00:10:21,019
thing to do is to let them die?
182
00:10:21,020 --> 00:10:23,699
That was another child
and another set of circumstances.
183
00:10:23,700 --> 00:10:25,659
It was a busy time.
184
00:10:25,660 --> 00:10:27,180
Lots of people to save?
185
00:10:28,980 --> 00:10:30,179
Yes.
186
00:10:30,180 --> 00:10:31,939
How irritating, then, to have a bed
187
00:10:31,940 --> 00:10:35,499
taken up with this disabled child
which determined parents
188
00:10:35,500 --> 00:10:37,059
are there to protect.
189
00:10:37,060 --> 00:10:40,139
I do think the sanctity of life
is important.
190
00:10:40,140 --> 00:10:44,899
But sometimes, as doctors, we're
unable to preserve a meaningful
191
00:10:44,900 --> 00:10:48,979
life, and in that case it is cruel
to prolong the dying process
192
00:10:48,980 --> 00:10:51,419
with treatments that
do not benefit them.
193
00:10:51,420 --> 00:10:55,699
Where is that stated? Is that in the
good medical practice guidelines,
194
00:10:55,700 --> 00:10:57,339
as laid out by the GMC?
195
00:10:57,340 --> 00:10:58,619
My Lady!
196
00:10:58,620 --> 00:11:01,179
Mr Frederick, your questioning
here is inappropriate,
197
00:11:01,180 --> 00:11:03,419
as I believe you're well aware.
198
00:11:03,420 --> 00:11:06,939
Dr Woodham, you do not need to
answer but you may if you wish.
199
00:11:06,940 --> 00:11:08,540
Mm.
200
00:11:15,660 --> 00:11:17,180
Marnie is in pain.
201
00:11:19,180 --> 00:11:22,659
She's unable to communicate,
202
00:11:22,660 --> 00:11:24,620
and I am no longer helping her.
203
00:11:26,300 --> 00:11:29,500
I am just prolonging her death.
204
00:11:30,700 --> 00:11:35,099
When the other doctors decided
that you had had
205
00:11:35,100 --> 00:11:39,299
an unfortunate complication
in perforating Marnie's artery
206
00:11:39,300 --> 00:11:43,099
and almost leaving her with
another disability,
207
00:11:43,100 --> 00:11:44,899
on what grounds did they do so?
208
00:11:44,900 --> 00:11:46,299
Sorry?
209
00:11:46,300 --> 00:11:49,860
On what grounds did they make
their judgment on you?
210
00:11:53,220 --> 00:11:55,939
The grounds of, um...
211
00:11:55,940 --> 00:11:57,299
I'm sorry, I...
212
00:11:57,300 --> 00:11:59,619
They gave you the benefit
of the doubt, Dr Woodham.
213
00:11:59,620 --> 00:12:02,939
Just as you have failed to give
Marnie the benefit of the doubt.
214
00:12:02,940 --> 00:12:06,779
No. In fact, and instead,
what Marnie has faced
215
00:12:06,780 --> 00:12:11,179
every day in your care is your
prejudice that this little girl
216
00:12:11,180 --> 00:12:14,939
and her little life are taking up
space in your precious PICU.
217
00:12:14,940 --> 00:12:16,340
No.
218
00:12:22,420 --> 00:12:24,499
I am sorry that you're
getting emotional.
219
00:12:24,500 --> 00:12:26,259
That was not my intention.
220
00:12:26,260 --> 00:12:29,700
But there is, of course, a lot of
emotion attached to this case.
221
00:12:30,740 --> 00:12:37,259
She is my patient and I have always
given her the finest care.
222
00:12:37,260 --> 00:12:38,860
In your opinion.
223
00:12:40,220 --> 00:12:42,060
No further questions.
224
00:12:47,980 --> 00:12:49,859
You doing OK?
225
00:12:49,860 --> 00:12:51,979
Great.
226
00:12:51,980 --> 00:12:53,580
You've had no further trouble?
227
00:12:55,060 --> 00:12:56,420
I'm fine.
228
00:12:59,860 --> 00:13:02,539
That was a good morning for us.
229
00:13:02,540 --> 00:13:03,980
I'm sure it feels like that.
230
00:13:07,700 --> 00:13:12,220
PHONE BUZZES
231
00:13:33,180 --> 00:13:35,819
Hey.
232
00:13:35,820 --> 00:13:37,939
Hey there.
233
00:13:37,940 --> 00:13:39,539
Mind if I...?
234
00:13:39,540 --> 00:13:41,340
Uh, no. Not at all.
235
00:13:45,900 --> 00:13:47,219
Is it allowed?
236
00:13:47,220 --> 00:13:48,580
It's allowed.
237
00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:55,459
How do you think it's going?
Honestly? Yeah.
238
00:13:55,460 --> 00:13:57,019
Horribly.
239
00:13:57,020 --> 00:13:59,019
These things are usually...
240
00:13:59,020 --> 00:14:02,620
..not collegiate, but there's
a certain level of respect.
241
00:14:11,380 --> 00:14:14,460
However this turns out,
look after yourself, OK?
242
00:14:16,860 --> 00:14:19,379
Ah, yeah, it's just an egg stain.
243
00:14:19,380 --> 00:14:20,899
Sorry?
244
00:14:20,900 --> 00:14:22,620
On the tie. It's just an egg stain.
245
00:14:24,420 --> 00:14:26,579
I know what drinking looks like.
246
00:14:26,580 --> 00:14:28,340
I know what drinking smells like.
247
00:14:32,260 --> 00:14:34,259
Have you got any lunch?
248
00:14:34,260 --> 00:14:35,740
Er, no.
249
00:14:37,980 --> 00:14:39,619
OK. I can get some more.
250
00:14:39,620 --> 00:14:42,860
What? No, no, no, no.
You can, and you will.
251
00:14:49,580 --> 00:14:52,380
My favourite flavour.
Cheese and onion.
252
00:14:54,380 --> 00:14:56,540
My favourite. Good.
253
00:15:02,060 --> 00:15:04,219
Mr Lloyd.
254
00:15:04,220 --> 00:15:06,460
Would you consent to a few
questions from me?
255
00:15:08,260 --> 00:15:09,739
I've...
256
00:15:09,740 --> 00:15:12,179
I've nothing to hide.
Thank you.
257
00:15:12,180 --> 00:15:16,339
Your wife gave up her job
when Marnie was diagnosed?
258
00:15:16,340 --> 00:15:18,419
And I'm very grateful for that.
259
00:15:18,420 --> 00:15:20,779
Rather she kept herself
focused on Marnie.
260
00:15:20,780 --> 00:15:23,819
Well, her job wasn't
very understanding.
261
00:15:23,820 --> 00:15:26,059
You kept working?
262
00:15:26,060 --> 00:15:30,259
Yes. Uh, we needed the money.
263
00:15:30,260 --> 00:15:33,299
Do you remember who was earning
more when Marnie was born?
264
00:15:33,300 --> 00:15:34,899
Your wife or yourself?
265
00:15:34,900 --> 00:15:37,019
Er, she was.
266
00:15:37,020 --> 00:15:40,659
So, a better economic decision might
have been for you to give up
267
00:15:40,660 --> 00:15:43,300
your job and for your
wife to keep on going.
268
00:15:46,980 --> 00:15:48,499
You're right.
269
00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:51,460
Can you explain why, then, you were
the one to keep your job?
270
00:15:53,460 --> 00:15:57,179
To be honest,
the question wasn't asked.
271
00:15:57,180 --> 00:15:59,219
What sort of hours do you work,
Mr Lloyd?
272
00:15:59,220 --> 00:16:01,379
9.30 till 6.00 most days.
273
00:16:01,380 --> 00:16:05,019
And your business, accountancy,
has grown since Marnie was born?
274
00:16:05,020 --> 00:16:06,219
Yes.
275
00:16:06,220 --> 00:16:09,940
So, occasionally you have meetings
in the evenings, at weekends?
276
00:16:12,460 --> 00:16:15,379
I... have always... um...
277
00:16:15,380 --> 00:16:18,419
..have made a lot of time
for my family.
278
00:16:18,420 --> 00:16:20,939
So any suggestion you've buried
yourself in work...
279
00:16:20,940 --> 00:16:24,219
My Lady! I am not here to represent
Mr Lloyd, but as he's
280
00:16:24,220 --> 00:16:28,019
representing himself and perhaps
unused to the court situation,
281
00:16:28,020 --> 00:16:30,579
I do feel obliged to say
these questions do feel
282
00:16:30,580 --> 00:16:32,419
unnecessarily intrusive.
283
00:16:32,420 --> 00:16:33,860
Agreed.
284
00:16:38,860 --> 00:16:41,780
Would you consider yourself
a good father, Andrew?
285
00:16:46,460 --> 00:16:48,739
I'd hope... that I'm a good dad.
286
00:16:48,740 --> 00:16:51,499
I don't believe this
line of questioning is fruitful.
287
00:16:51,500 --> 00:16:55,259
I'm not going to be helped by
intrusive questions of Mr Lloyd.
288
00:16:55,260 --> 00:16:57,859
If you have any questions
about Marnie's quality of life,
289
00:16:57,860 --> 00:17:00,299
please ask them.
Apologies, My Lady.
290
00:17:00,300 --> 00:17:03,939
I'm not looking to be intrusive,
just drawing a picture
291
00:17:03,940 --> 00:17:06,259
as to the family dynamic,
so as to
292
00:17:06,260 --> 00:17:10,739
get a... a better sense of who might
best represent Marnie's interests.
293
00:17:10,740 --> 00:17:14,459
Mr Frederick, I have no doubt that
everyone involved in this case
294
00:17:14,460 --> 00:17:15,979
firmly believes that they are
295
00:17:15,980 --> 00:17:19,700
putting Marnie's best interests
first. It's not a competition.
296
00:17:23,820 --> 00:17:28,779
Parenting a child with Marnie's
needs must be extremely trying.
297
00:17:28,780 --> 00:17:32,379
There are difficulties but, er...
298
00:17:32,380 --> 00:17:34,899
..immense pleasures, too.
299
00:17:34,900 --> 00:17:37,299
She's a beautiful girl.
300
00:17:37,300 --> 00:17:39,980
Has the pressure ever
overwhelmed you?
301
00:17:41,780 --> 00:17:43,379
Frequently.
302
00:17:43,380 --> 00:17:45,059
There have been moments
303
00:17:45,060 --> 00:17:48,539
when you have made mistakes looking
after her, haven't there?
304
00:17:48,540 --> 00:17:53,059
The time that Marnie was left alone
with her temperature rising
305
00:17:53,060 --> 00:17:55,860
while you were in
your garden, drinking.
306
00:17:57,860 --> 00:18:00,219
Um...
307
00:18:00,220 --> 00:18:02,059
I had...
308
00:18:02,060 --> 00:18:04,099
I had a couple of beers, sure,
309
00:18:04,100 --> 00:18:07,059
but I had the monitor with me
and I couldn't anticipate...
310
00:18:07,060 --> 00:18:09,220
Was it a COUPLE of beers?
311
00:18:13,980 --> 00:18:16,660
I... Um...
312
00:18:18,860 --> 00:18:20,579
Perhaps four or five.
313
00:18:20,580 --> 00:18:22,460
Were there drugs involved?
314
00:18:26,380 --> 00:18:28,539
Maybe I'd smoked some weed.
I do occasionally.
315
00:18:28,540 --> 00:18:30,259
It doesn't impact my judgment.
316
00:18:30,260 --> 00:18:34,219
To be clear, at that moment
she required hospitalisation.
317
00:18:34,220 --> 00:18:36,019
I...
318
00:18:36,020 --> 00:18:38,700
I think we've both made mistakes,
haven't we, Nicci?
319
00:18:39,980 --> 00:18:43,379
Is this another mistake, Mr Lloyd?
320
00:18:43,380 --> 00:18:46,819
You're aware that if you do this,
there is no coming back?
321
00:18:46,820 --> 00:18:49,859
Am I aware that my daughter
will be dead?
322
00:18:49,860 --> 00:18:52,900
Yes. I'm... aware of that.
323
00:18:54,140 --> 00:18:56,660
I don't want to make
this decision. I...
324
00:18:58,220 --> 00:18:59,980
I just... um...
325
00:19:01,740 --> 00:19:03,660
I feel obliged to.
326
00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:10,460
No further questions.
327
00:19:15,660 --> 00:19:18,219
Where does that obligation
come from?
328
00:19:18,220 --> 00:19:20,180
The obligation to
make that decision?
329
00:19:22,620 --> 00:19:25,060
I looked at her and, um...
330
00:19:28,020 --> 00:19:29,500
..I, um...
331
00:19:32,780 --> 00:19:38,259
It's a difficult thing,
watching your child in pain,
332
00:19:38,260 --> 00:19:40,979
especially when you believe
she won't get better.
333
00:19:40,980 --> 00:19:43,619
That is supposition on the basis
of no medical training.
334
00:19:43,620 --> 00:19:47,699
But I have studied. My wife and I
both have. We're specialists.
335
00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:50,699
You know, I believe one thing
and she believes another, and
336
00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:55,740
I believe that hers is on the basis
of a wish that I wish I shared.
337
00:19:59,460 --> 00:20:01,500
The obligation comes from love.
338
00:20:03,580 --> 00:20:05,179
And if that doesn't sound...
339
00:20:05,180 --> 00:20:07,500
Well, look, I don't really care how
it sounds.
340
00:20:09,460 --> 00:20:11,060
No further questions.
341
00:20:26,580 --> 00:20:29,379
Uh, I'm going to catch
the bus home, OK?
342
00:20:29,380 --> 00:20:32,539
Oh. Well, Grandad was going to
give us a lift.
343
00:20:32,540 --> 00:20:35,339
Er, yeah, I'm going to catch
the bus.
344
00:20:35,340 --> 00:20:37,379
Just need some space.
345
00:20:37,380 --> 00:20:39,060
OK.
346
00:20:53,180 --> 00:20:56,019
I'm so sorry this is
so late in the day. Oh, that's OK.
347
00:20:56,020 --> 00:20:59,099
I'm just pleased to finally be
getting to talk to you.
348
00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:00,220
I think I can help you.
349
00:21:01,780 --> 00:21:03,099
Great.
350
00:21:03,100 --> 00:21:07,979
So, what's your opinion on what's
best now, for Marnie?
351
00:21:07,980 --> 00:21:11,179
Marnie needs time.
We need to be able to chart
352
00:21:11,180 --> 00:21:14,139
whether any recovery from the
hypoxic brain damage is possible.
353
00:21:14,140 --> 00:21:18,179
We need to see what treatment might
be best for her condition.
354
00:21:18,180 --> 00:21:21,619
So, I say we give her that time
and get her tracheostomised
355
00:21:21,620 --> 00:21:23,020
and supported.
356
00:21:28,060 --> 00:21:30,179
I can't, er...
357
00:21:30,180 --> 00:21:34,579
I can't tell you how good it feels
to hear a doctor say it.
358
00:21:34,580 --> 00:21:36,899
Medicine's an observational sport.
359
00:21:36,900 --> 00:21:41,019
Too many give up on that
observation too quickly.
360
00:21:41,020 --> 00:21:44,179
There are many that believe that
risdiplam might have
361
00:21:44,180 --> 00:21:47,619
an impact across a spectrum
of neuromuscular disorders.
362
00:21:47,620 --> 00:21:50,219
Yeah, I said...
I said the same.
363
00:21:50,220 --> 00:21:52,859
And the important thing
from the court's perspective is not
364
00:21:52,860 --> 00:21:56,260
that such a thing is probable,
but that it's possible.
365
00:21:58,740 --> 00:22:02,579
But you've had success
with children like Marnie?
366
00:22:02,580 --> 00:22:05,899
Mrs Lloyd, I've had success
with all kinds of children
367
00:22:05,900 --> 00:22:08,700
that medical science
would otherwise have discarded.
368
00:22:14,740 --> 00:22:16,259
What's in the picnic basket?
369
00:22:16,260 --> 00:22:18,620
I don't know yet,
cos it's in the shop.
370
00:22:21,260 --> 00:22:22,700
Got it.
371
00:22:26,300 --> 00:22:28,420
CAR ENGINE STARTS
372
00:22:43,460 --> 00:22:46,659
You look like a fucking statue.
373
00:22:46,660 --> 00:22:49,299
Yeah.
374
00:22:49,300 --> 00:22:50,580
You want to talk about it?
375
00:22:58,260 --> 00:22:59,940
I had...
376
00:23:00,980 --> 00:23:05,219
I had thoughts.
I had thoughts things...
377
00:23:05,220 --> 00:23:06,820
..would be easier without her.
378
00:23:08,700 --> 00:23:10,419
I had those thoughts.
379
00:23:10,420 --> 00:23:13,140
Of course you did. You knew
how hard it was with me.
380
00:23:15,340 --> 00:23:17,619
No. That's not true.
381
00:23:17,620 --> 00:23:19,220
I loved being your big brother.
382
00:23:20,580 --> 00:23:23,180
I quite liked being
your little brother.
383
00:23:41,340 --> 00:23:46,220
MUSIC: Animal Nitrate
by Suede
384
00:23:51,420 --> 00:23:52,939
Dance with me.
385
00:23:52,940 --> 00:23:55,259
No! Come on. Dance with me.
386
00:23:55,260 --> 00:23:58,380
Fuck off! No, dance with me.
Come on.
387
00:24:02,420 --> 00:24:07,499
♪ Like his dad,
you know that he's had
388
00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:11,859
♪ Animal nitrate in mind
389
00:24:11,860 --> 00:24:16,779
♪ Oh, in your council home
he jumped on your bones
390
00:24:16,780 --> 00:24:21,019
♪ Now you're taking it
time after time
391
00:24:21,020 --> 00:24:26,620
♪ Oh, it turns you on, on... ♪
392
00:24:41,220 --> 00:24:43,860
SIREN WAILS
393
00:25:38,340 --> 00:25:41,499
I'm guessing you'll
be sleeping here.
394
00:25:41,500 --> 00:25:43,499
Thanks, yeah.
395
00:25:43,500 --> 00:25:45,860
I'll bring you in
a cup of tea at seven.
396
00:26:16,460 --> 00:26:18,060
Once upon a time...
397
00:26:19,860 --> 00:26:21,500
..there was a button...
398
00:26:23,220 --> 00:26:24,500
..called Little Button...
399
00:26:27,260 --> 00:26:28,860
..and she lived with her mum...
400
00:26:30,500 --> 00:26:32,739
..Mummy Hat...
401
00:26:32,740 --> 00:26:34,260
..and her dad, Daddy Shirt...
402
00:26:36,860 --> 00:26:38,500
..and her sister...
403
00:26:39,660 --> 00:26:41,340
..Sister Shoe...
404
00:26:43,860 --> 00:26:46,620
..in a room above a factory.
405
00:26:48,420 --> 00:26:49,820
One day...
406
00:26:51,940 --> 00:26:53,540
One day she went to the beach...
407
00:26:57,500 --> 00:26:59,180
..and she...
408
00:27:07,220 --> 00:27:10,260
SHE CRIES
409
00:27:14,940 --> 00:27:17,060
You wait there, OK, sweetheart?
410
00:27:20,140 --> 00:27:22,459
OK, I'll, er...
I'll finish it off.
411
00:27:22,460 --> 00:27:24,459
I've got this.
412
00:27:24,460 --> 00:27:27,900
You take your time and then, er,
then we'll climb up the hill, OK?
413
00:27:29,380 --> 00:27:33,139
I'm sorry. It's all right, darling.
It's all right. It's all right.
414
00:27:33,140 --> 00:27:35,339
Hello! Hello, sweetheart!
415
00:27:35,340 --> 00:27:36,900
You're OK.
416
00:27:37,940 --> 00:27:41,699
You know, I've even got
a story about Sister Shoes.
417
00:27:41,700 --> 00:27:43,539
I have.
418
00:27:43,540 --> 00:27:45,020
It's OK.
419
00:28:03,300 --> 00:28:07,259
Could you explain to us
why the doctors are wrong?
420
00:28:07,260 --> 00:28:10,739
Marnie has a congenital
muscular dystrophy.
421
00:28:10,740 --> 00:28:13,299
Her specific form has never
been diagnosed,
422
00:28:13,300 --> 00:28:15,859
it's hard to diagnose,
and therefore hard to treat,
423
00:28:15,860 --> 00:28:18,499
but I believe that
treatments are possible.
424
00:28:18,500 --> 00:28:20,699
For instance,
an experimental treatment
425
00:28:20,700 --> 00:28:22,779
called risdiplam
might have an impact.
426
00:28:22,780 --> 00:28:24,219
My Lady, that drug
427
00:28:24,220 --> 00:28:27,019
is not licensed for use by NICE,
the FDA, or the EMA
428
00:28:27,020 --> 00:28:28,299
for Marnie's condition.
429
00:28:28,300 --> 00:28:31,499
Er, right now it isn't,
but drug use changes
430
00:28:31,500 --> 00:28:32,739
all the time.
431
00:28:32,740 --> 00:28:35,219
We're not here to guess as to what
treatments might work.
432
00:28:35,220 --> 00:28:37,939
I agree. Please refrain
from guesswork, Dr Pankerman.
433
00:28:37,940 --> 00:28:39,459
We're here to establish facts.
434
00:28:39,460 --> 00:28:42,059
My point is not that a cure
is available,
435
00:28:42,060 --> 00:28:44,939
my point is that it
might be available.
436
00:28:44,940 --> 00:28:48,419
We will investigate
and make cases for treatments.
437
00:28:48,420 --> 00:28:51,420
And while we do so,
we'll keep Marnie alive.
438
00:28:53,100 --> 00:28:54,900
No further questions.
439
00:29:00,460 --> 00:29:02,979
Talk me through your qualifications
in PICU.
440
00:29:02,980 --> 00:29:04,619
15 years qualified.
441
00:29:04,620 --> 00:29:07,539
I'm an attending physician
that works mainly in neurology.
442
00:29:07,540 --> 00:29:09,179
Sorry, you misunderstand me.
443
00:29:09,180 --> 00:29:13,579
I know it's another country's
medical system, so it's complicated,
444
00:29:13,580 --> 00:29:17,699
but paediatric medicine,
what is your specialism there?
445
00:29:17,700 --> 00:29:22,219
Unlike Dr Woodham, who is
a generalist, I'm a neurologist.
446
00:29:22,220 --> 00:29:23,899
I work with all ages.
447
00:29:23,900 --> 00:29:25,579
I can understand the brain.
448
00:29:25,580 --> 00:29:27,339
Have you examined Marnie's brain?
449
00:29:27,340 --> 00:29:29,379
I haven't been to examine
her face-to-face
450
00:29:29,380 --> 00:29:30,939
but I have looked at the scans.
451
00:29:30,940 --> 00:29:35,259
So this is just an opinion
based on no direct examination?
452
00:29:35,260 --> 00:29:39,619
Your medical system has prevented me
from examining Marnie.
453
00:29:39,620 --> 00:29:42,219
As such, my opinion is provisional.
454
00:29:42,220 --> 00:29:46,260
It is far from categoric but I do
think the possibility exists.
455
00:29:47,340 --> 00:29:50,819
To be clear to the court, a second
opinion was sought and given.
456
00:29:50,820 --> 00:29:53,419
The consultant asked a friend
of hers from a neighbouring
457
00:29:53,420 --> 00:29:55,059
hospital to examine the girl.
458
00:29:55,060 --> 00:29:57,219
Unsurprisingly,
she agreed with the consultant.
459
00:29:57,220 --> 00:29:58,979
Are you claiming that
Professor Bradbury
460
00:29:58,980 --> 00:30:01,579
has not complied with her
duty to the court?
461
00:30:01,580 --> 00:30:04,019
That's an extremely serious
allegation to make.
462
00:30:04,020 --> 00:30:05,899
What is your evidence for it?
463
00:30:05,900 --> 00:30:09,099
No, I'm not saying that,
I'm just saying that often
464
00:30:09,100 --> 00:30:11,220
colleagues support each other.
465
00:30:12,380 --> 00:30:15,819
Tell me, you have appeared in other
proceedings concerning
466
00:30:15,820 --> 00:30:18,099
medical treatment for minors,
have you not?
467
00:30:18,100 --> 00:30:21,299
Yes. How many cases where there
is a decision to be made
468
00:30:21,300 --> 00:30:23,339
about the future care of a child?
469
00:30:23,340 --> 00:30:25,579
I don't know, maybe three.
470
00:30:25,580 --> 00:30:27,779
Well, this was just a simple
Google search.
471
00:30:27,780 --> 00:30:31,179
We found evidence of you
contributing to seven trials
472
00:30:31,180 --> 00:30:34,659
on this basis.
Why do you think that is?
473
00:30:34,660 --> 00:30:36,979
I'm happy to help.
474
00:30:36,980 --> 00:30:41,379
To go against the establishment.
Not many are, in my profession.
475
00:30:41,380 --> 00:30:44,339
A bit of aggression from them
helps us, to be honest.
476
00:30:44,340 --> 00:30:47,019
What did you recommend,
477
00:30:47,020 --> 00:30:49,820
in all those cases,
for the child involved?
478
00:30:52,220 --> 00:30:56,060
Have you ever recommended that
ventilation should cease?
479
00:30:57,980 --> 00:30:59,540
No.
480
00:31:00,660 --> 00:31:02,500
I found evidence they should live.
481
00:31:04,620 --> 00:31:06,380
No further questions.
482
00:31:52,540 --> 00:31:55,499
KATIE: Hey.
483
00:31:55,500 --> 00:31:57,499
I followed you.
484
00:31:57,500 --> 00:31:59,299
Oh.
485
00:31:59,300 --> 00:32:01,379
Well, that's kids for you.
486
00:32:01,380 --> 00:32:02,979
One day they don't want to know,
487
00:32:02,980 --> 00:32:05,099
next day they're following you
to church.
488
00:32:05,100 --> 00:32:09,499
Go ahead, Mum. Pray.
I'm just... just here.
489
00:32:09,500 --> 00:32:10,860
No, it's OK.
490
00:32:12,540 --> 00:32:16,259
Maybe you'll have a thunderbolt
moment and start believing in God.
491
00:32:16,260 --> 00:32:19,180
Yeah? Maybe I can be saved.
492
00:32:22,020 --> 00:32:25,099
You know they're only doing what
they need to do to win this?
493
00:32:25,100 --> 00:32:27,419
Yeah, I understand that.
494
00:32:27,420 --> 00:32:30,019
I mean, what they're doing,
they're... Dad doesn't...
495
00:32:30,020 --> 00:32:32,580
Mum... that's not my problem.
496
00:32:34,940 --> 00:32:36,700
Was he the best they could do?
497
00:32:38,860 --> 00:32:40,579
SHE SIGHS
498
00:32:40,580 --> 00:32:42,300
I thought...
499
00:32:43,860 --> 00:32:46,580
Would you trust him with Marnie?
500
00:32:54,740 --> 00:32:56,300
No.
501
00:33:03,500 --> 00:33:05,620
I don't think she'd want this.
502
00:33:09,540 --> 00:33:11,539
Sorry.
503
00:33:11,540 --> 00:33:13,180
I don't.
504
00:33:14,540 --> 00:33:16,060
You're a brave girl.
505
00:33:17,660 --> 00:33:19,260
You're always so brave.
506
00:33:26,300 --> 00:33:28,299
Mrs Lloyd,
507
00:33:28,300 --> 00:33:30,860
tell me why you oppose
the hospital in this action.
508
00:33:32,300 --> 00:33:35,419
Because I believe my daughter
should live.
509
00:33:35,420 --> 00:33:36,980
Even though she's in pain?
510
00:33:38,980 --> 00:33:40,899
I don't believe that.
511
00:33:40,900 --> 00:33:43,459
You've seen the reports.
You've been present
512
00:33:43,460 --> 00:33:46,059
at Marnie being suctioned,
where it's claimed a clear pain
513
00:33:46,060 --> 00:33:47,459
response has been present.
514
00:33:47,460 --> 00:33:48,819
I've never seen that pain.
515
00:33:48,820 --> 00:33:50,820
My Lady...
If I'd have seen that pain...
516
00:33:52,140 --> 00:33:53,659
..we wouldn't be here now.
517
00:33:53,660 --> 00:33:56,019
I believe we can allow Mrs Lloyd
to have her own
518
00:33:56,020 --> 00:33:57,660
version of events, counsel.
519
00:34:02,060 --> 00:34:04,540
Why do you think the hospital
disagrees with you?
520
00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:08,740
Um...
521
00:34:12,380 --> 00:34:15,019
Er, that's a big question.
522
00:34:15,020 --> 00:34:16,420
Take your time.
523
00:34:19,780 --> 00:34:21,900
I can't... um...
524
00:34:25,180 --> 00:34:30,579
I can't tell you the amount of times
that you are encouraged,
525
00:34:30,580 --> 00:34:33,059
as a parent of a disabled child,
526
00:34:33,060 --> 00:34:34,460
to just...
527
00:34:35,740 --> 00:34:38,259
..to just give up.
528
00:34:38,260 --> 00:34:42,019
We had it all through
this... pandemic.
529
00:34:42,020 --> 00:34:46,859
I had friends told that their kids
wouldn't get machines.
530
00:34:46,860 --> 00:34:51,979
And I always knew I had to keep
Marnie safe because if she did get
531
00:34:51,980 --> 00:34:56,980
the damn thing, I didn't know
that she would survive it because...
532
00:34:59,380 --> 00:35:02,539
..I didn't know that she
would get the help...
533
00:35:02,540 --> 00:35:03,980
..to survive.
534
00:35:06,820 --> 00:35:09,659
And then we made it out
the other side and...
535
00:35:09,660 --> 00:35:11,180
..and suddenly...
536
00:35:13,580 --> 00:35:15,300
My point is that, um...
537
00:35:16,860 --> 00:35:21,420
..people say that they care about
disabled people, but...
538
00:35:23,660 --> 00:35:26,260
..always, all the time...
539
00:35:27,580 --> 00:35:29,260
..I see different.
540
00:35:31,580 --> 00:35:34,499
Marnie's my, er...
541
00:35:34,500 --> 00:35:41,979
Marnie's my beautiful child and
it's an honour to be her mother.
542
00:35:41,980 --> 00:35:44,980
So I've learned
to put my shoulder down.
543
00:35:46,660 --> 00:35:49,340
I just put my shoulder down
and I just...
544
00:35:50,580 --> 00:35:52,620
..I just keep charging.
545
00:36:30,780 --> 00:36:32,500
Ready?
546
00:36:36,380 --> 00:36:38,739
You know what you used
to say to me any time
547
00:36:38,740 --> 00:36:40,580
I had something difficult to do?
No.
548
00:36:42,180 --> 00:36:45,019
Mum would tell me to try to be
brave. You told me
549
00:36:45,020 --> 00:36:47,859
I didn't need to try,
I was already brave.
550
00:36:47,860 --> 00:36:49,699
Well, I'm not you.
551
00:36:49,700 --> 00:36:51,379
You want me to come?
552
00:36:51,380 --> 00:36:52,939
You don't like crowds.
553
00:36:52,940 --> 00:36:54,580
I will, though, if you want me to.
554
00:36:58,500 --> 00:37:00,220
I can do this on my own.
555
00:37:31,060 --> 00:37:32,940
Are you all right?
Yeah.
556
00:37:36,460 --> 00:37:38,579
Hi. Hi.
557
00:37:38,580 --> 00:37:40,459
I like the smart threads.
558
00:37:40,460 --> 00:37:41,500
New?
559
00:37:42,860 --> 00:37:44,300
Yeah, well... ish.
560
00:37:45,500 --> 00:37:47,500
We're here for you both.
561
00:37:49,940 --> 00:37:51,620
Yeah. Well, we better go in.
562
00:38:12,100 --> 00:38:13,620
All rise.
563
00:38:31,900 --> 00:38:35,499
These cases are clearly never easy.
564
00:38:35,500 --> 00:38:37,580
This case particularly so.
565
00:38:39,100 --> 00:38:42,139
I recognise that the strong
presumption in favour
566
00:38:42,140 --> 00:38:44,379
of a course of action that will
prolong life
567
00:38:44,380 --> 00:38:47,419
is not an irrebuttable one.
568
00:38:47,420 --> 00:38:51,419
It reflects the position that life,
as precious as it is,
569
00:38:51,420 --> 00:38:53,819
cannot be,
and indeed should not be
570
00:38:53,820 --> 00:38:58,060
preserved at all costs in the face
of its natural conclusion.
571
00:38:59,460 --> 00:39:02,539
But equally I recognise that
572
00:39:02,540 --> 00:39:05,819
Marnie Lloyd is clearly
an exceptional, bright,
573
00:39:05,820 --> 00:39:08,819
happy and well-loved child.
574
00:39:08,820 --> 00:39:12,059
And it is plain from Dr Woodham's
evidence, and the evidence
575
00:39:12,060 --> 00:39:15,259
given by Mr and Mrs Lloyd,
that Marnie's parents have been
576
00:39:15,260 --> 00:39:18,859
doughty defenders of their
daughter's best interests
577
00:39:18,860 --> 00:39:21,780
over many years,
to her undoubted benefit.
578
00:39:23,340 --> 00:39:25,659
The position adopted by Mrs Lloyd
579
00:39:25,660 --> 00:39:28,339
before the court is
eminently reasonable
580
00:39:28,340 --> 00:39:30,260
and wholly understandable.
581
00:39:31,660 --> 00:39:36,259
It represents a continuation
of the love and dedication
582
00:39:36,260 --> 00:39:39,860
that she and her family have
shown to Marnie throughout her life.
583
00:39:41,780 --> 00:39:46,820
This is a case of huge complication
and immense difficulty.
584
00:39:48,020 --> 00:39:50,939
I'm going to break my thinking
into four areas.
585
00:39:50,940 --> 00:39:54,060
HE BREATHES RAGGEDLY
So we begin with the evidence...
586
00:40:08,180 --> 00:40:10,699
It's a panic attack. It'll pass.
587
00:40:10,700 --> 00:40:13,539
GASPING: It's just a panic attack.
It'll pass.
588
00:40:13,540 --> 00:40:14,660
I've had them before.
589
00:40:16,500 --> 00:40:18,059
Is he all right?
It's all right.
590
00:40:18,060 --> 00:40:21,139
He's just having a panic attack.
He's had them before. Thank you.
591
00:40:21,140 --> 00:40:23,179
ANDREW SOBS
592
00:40:23,180 --> 00:40:26,699
All right. Deep breaths, come on.
593
00:40:26,700 --> 00:40:29,019
You're OK. It's all right.
594
00:40:29,020 --> 00:40:31,379
And so, for all those reasons,
595
00:40:31,380 --> 00:40:34,819
I will make the declaration
sought by the hospital...
596
00:40:34,820 --> 00:40:37,059
NICCI GASPS, SOBS
597
00:40:37,060 --> 00:40:40,019
that the continuation
of life-sustaining treatment
598
00:40:40,020 --> 00:40:43,819
is not in Marnie's best interests.
599
00:40:43,820 --> 00:40:47,700
NICCI SOBS
600
00:40:53,820 --> 00:40:56,220
INDISTINCT CHATTER
601
00:40:57,700 --> 00:41:00,499
We'll sort it with Derek and talk
about a potential appeal. Derek?
602
00:41:00,500 --> 00:41:02,579
Yes, absolutely.
603
00:41:02,580 --> 00:41:04,779
Look, it's hard now, I know, but...
604
00:41:04,780 --> 00:41:08,100
INDISTINCT CHATTER
605
00:41:39,180 --> 00:41:40,940
Can we go? Let's just go.
606
00:42:06,620 --> 00:42:08,260
HE EXHALES
607
00:42:13,220 --> 00:42:15,660
DOORBELL
608
00:42:19,820 --> 00:42:21,340
No, I'll get it.
609
00:42:25,860 --> 00:42:28,459
Hello.
Hi, Tom.
610
00:42:28,460 --> 00:42:30,060
Is, um...?
611
00:42:33,220 --> 00:42:35,859
Hello.
Hi.
612
00:42:35,860 --> 00:42:38,819
I was just... writing to you.
613
00:42:38,820 --> 00:42:40,020
Saying what?
614
00:42:41,300 --> 00:42:43,259
Sh... shall I leave?
615
00:42:43,260 --> 00:42:46,219
Well, no. We'll just...
We'll go for a walk.
616
00:42:46,220 --> 00:42:47,860
I always like a walk.
617
00:42:54,020 --> 00:42:56,139
All right? Yeah.
618
00:42:56,140 --> 00:42:57,420
OK.
619
00:43:02,740 --> 00:43:04,620
They want me to appeal.
620
00:43:06,060 --> 00:43:07,939
Of course they do.
621
00:43:07,940 --> 00:43:10,299
I shouldn't have told them
about your drinking.
622
00:43:10,300 --> 00:43:13,499
I'm ashamed that I did that.
I should... You needed to win.
623
00:43:13,500 --> 00:43:15,859
You-you were...
624
00:43:15,860 --> 00:43:19,100
You ARE an excellent dad.
625
00:43:21,740 --> 00:43:24,819
I'm not saying you're right,
and I'm not...
626
00:43:24,820 --> 00:43:26,220
But I'm...
627
00:43:28,460 --> 00:43:29,980
But I'm-I'm stopping it.
628
00:43:35,540 --> 00:43:37,260
You're sure?
629
00:44:31,660 --> 00:44:33,180
Morning!
630
00:44:35,340 --> 00:44:37,659
This is an unexpected bounty.
631
00:44:37,660 --> 00:44:40,579
Yeah, well, they're mostly
ones you've sold us.
632
00:44:40,580 --> 00:44:42,619
What's brought this on?
633
00:44:42,620 --> 00:44:46,060
Um, well, you won't be seeing us
again for a while.
634
00:44:47,580 --> 00:44:49,820
She's a smasher, your Marnie.
635
00:45:14,060 --> 00:45:15,940
I don't want her to die here.
636
00:45:19,620 --> 00:45:21,539
Um...
637
00:45:21,540 --> 00:45:25,859
I'm afraid, as I understand it,
she has to.
638
00:45:25,860 --> 00:45:27,819
Oh.
639
00:45:27,820 --> 00:45:31,179
I, um... I asked the same thing,
640
00:45:31,180 --> 00:45:33,659
back at the beginning, I asked
whether we could, you know,
641
00:45:33,660 --> 00:45:36,620
get her home, and I was told that
she'd die in the ambulance.
642
00:45:38,060 --> 00:45:39,899
Right.
643
00:45:39,900 --> 00:45:45,099
What they have said is once they've
turned off all the machines and,
644
00:45:45,100 --> 00:45:48,299
you know, let her... go...
645
00:45:48,300 --> 00:45:50,419
..um...
646
00:45:50,420 --> 00:45:52,899
..they can put
her in an ambulance for us
647
00:45:52,900 --> 00:45:55,780
and we can get her home then
and put her to bed.
648
00:45:59,060 --> 00:46:01,739
She'd be, er...
649
00:46:01,740 --> 00:46:03,379
She'd be dead.
650
00:46:03,380 --> 00:46:10,580
Or, um, well, we could explore
the, um... the transplant option.
651
00:46:12,580 --> 00:46:14,100
Right.
652
00:46:16,100 --> 00:46:18,059
What do you think?
653
00:46:18,060 --> 00:46:21,540
I decided I'd leave that
question to you.
654
00:46:22,940 --> 00:46:24,060
Oh.
655
00:46:25,220 --> 00:46:29,459
Well, thank you for researching it
656
00:46:29,460 --> 00:46:32,740
but... I want us to decide together.
657
00:46:34,500 --> 00:46:36,020
Yeah. Um...
658
00:46:38,420 --> 00:46:40,379
I mean, I genuinely...
659
00:46:40,380 --> 00:46:42,020
I'm not sure on this. Um...
660
00:46:45,780 --> 00:46:49,539
I think Marnie would quite like to
661
00:46:49,540 --> 00:46:51,780
be back in her own bed...
662
00:46:52,980 --> 00:46:54,460
..and, um...
663
00:46:56,540 --> 00:46:59,899
..and I think Marnie would quite
like to be useful, you know,
664
00:46:59,900 --> 00:47:01,580
to other people.
665
00:47:02,780 --> 00:47:05,539
Katie?
666
00:47:05,540 --> 00:47:06,899
Me?
667
00:47:06,900 --> 00:47:08,460
Yes, please.
668
00:47:11,020 --> 00:47:12,580
Um...
669
00:47:14,620 --> 00:47:15,940
I think...
670
00:47:20,140 --> 00:47:21,940
I think transplant.
671
00:47:25,380 --> 00:47:28,300
Could they do it quickly?
They could make that happen, yeah.
672
00:47:34,820 --> 00:47:36,900
Well, let's make it happen.
673
00:48:19,460 --> 00:48:20,900
Will we hear it?
674
00:48:21,940 --> 00:48:25,019
Will we hear it when she dies?
675
00:48:25,020 --> 00:48:26,620
There might be some breathing.
676
00:48:28,220 --> 00:48:30,619
But will it sound like
she's in pain?
677
00:48:30,620 --> 00:48:32,099
That's unlikely.
678
00:48:32,100 --> 00:48:35,379
Chances are she'll just pass.
679
00:48:35,380 --> 00:48:39,260
Can we call it dying? Not letting
go or passing on, just...
680
00:48:41,140 --> 00:48:42,659
..just dying.
681
00:48:42,660 --> 00:48:44,339
With the morphine she's on,
682
00:48:44,340 --> 00:48:46,340
I don't believe she'll
feel any pain.
683
00:48:51,380 --> 00:48:53,580
Have you got anything you want
to say to her?
684
00:48:58,340 --> 00:49:01,100
I think she knows how I feel.
685
00:49:03,540 --> 00:49:05,340
I love you, Marnie.
686
00:49:07,020 --> 00:49:09,579
I love you, too.
687
00:49:09,580 --> 00:49:11,020
I love you so much.
688
00:49:12,700 --> 00:49:14,819
I've got something I want to say.
689
00:49:14,820 --> 00:49:15,860
OK.
690
00:49:24,380 --> 00:49:28,220
KATIE WHISPERS
691
00:49:47,060 --> 00:49:48,380
Are you ready?
692
00:49:50,220 --> 00:49:52,059
Are the transplant team ready?
693
00:49:52,060 --> 00:49:53,299
Yes.
694
00:49:53,300 --> 00:49:56,379
Um, so, um... what will happen?
695
00:49:56,380 --> 00:49:58,459
Once we've taken out
the breathing tube,
696
00:49:58,460 --> 00:50:01,619
we'll let her breathe on her own.
She may take a few breaths.
697
00:50:01,620 --> 00:50:03,580
You will have a little
time to hold her.
698
00:50:04,540 --> 00:50:09,659
Then her heart will slow
and then it will stop.
699
00:50:09,660 --> 00:50:13,100
When that happens, we need to get
her next door, straight away.
700
00:50:21,140 --> 00:50:23,139
OK.
701
00:50:23,140 --> 00:50:24,900
Then I-I think we're ready.
702
00:50:29,780 --> 00:50:31,220
OK.
703
00:50:46,020 --> 00:50:50,460
SOFT BEEPING
704
00:50:59,140 --> 00:51:02,060
SNIFFLING
705
00:51:22,700 --> 00:51:24,340
There we go.
706
00:51:26,100 --> 00:51:27,940
There we go, lamb.
707
00:51:36,860 --> 00:51:39,779
Goodnight. Sleep tight.
708
00:51:39,780 --> 00:51:42,020
I love you. I love you. I love you.
709
00:51:46,620 --> 00:51:49,139
Was that the wrong thing to say?
710
00:51:49,140 --> 00:51:51,220
No.
711
00:53:07,980 --> 00:53:09,620
LIGHTER IGNITES
712
00:53:16,500 --> 00:53:18,180
Well, I'll, um...
713
00:53:19,340 --> 00:53:20,980
Get in the van.
714
00:53:23,100 --> 00:53:26,700
I don't know where we're going
but we're going there together.
715
00:53:28,540 --> 00:53:31,779
Right?
I agree with her.
716
00:53:31,780 --> 00:53:33,420
OK. Thanks.
717
00:53:59,460 --> 00:54:02,180
I'm going to miss her... so much.
718
00:54:04,980 --> 00:54:06,900
You know I will too, right?
719
00:54:09,500 --> 00:54:11,820
You even thinking you need
to say that just...
720
00:54:13,260 --> 00:54:15,220
..makes me feel like such
an arsehole.
721
00:54:17,020 --> 00:54:20,219
We made her happy and...
722
00:54:20,220 --> 00:54:21,980
..and that's...
723
00:54:25,300 --> 00:54:28,300
Well, she made us happy, too.
She really did.
724
00:54:39,180 --> 00:54:41,180
REAR DOOR OPENS
725
00:54:46,540 --> 00:54:48,260
So, where to?
726
00:54:50,260 --> 00:54:51,979
I could be hungry.
727
00:54:51,980 --> 00:54:54,979
You could? Mm.
Well, that's shocking.
728
00:54:54,980 --> 00:54:57,779
That's a great idea. Um...
729
00:54:57,780 --> 00:55:00,379
..the Italian place by the library?
730
00:55:00,380 --> 00:55:01,939
Yeah. Good.
731
00:55:01,940 --> 00:55:03,859
Music? You want some music?
732
00:55:03,860 --> 00:55:06,139
Oh. I, er...
733
00:55:06,140 --> 00:55:08,660
Your dongle, it's, uh... it's busted.
734
00:55:10,260 --> 00:55:11,979
You broke my dongle?
735
00:55:11,980 --> 00:55:15,539
Yeah. Yeah, I snapped it.
I snapped it in anger.
736
00:55:15,540 --> 00:55:17,379
Well, shall I sing something, then?
737
00:55:17,380 --> 00:55:18,660
KATIE CHUCKLES
738
00:55:20,020 --> 00:55:23,139
Uh... I've got my music.
739
00:55:23,140 --> 00:55:24,660
Oh, she's got her music.
740
00:55:26,580 --> 00:55:29,020
Let's hear it, then.
All right.
741
00:55:31,260 --> 00:55:36,940
MUSIC: 20/20
by Rimon
742
00:55:42,700 --> 00:55:44,779
♪ Whoa, whoa Woo, ooh
743
00:55:44,780 --> 00:55:48,499
♪ Whoa, whoa Woo, ooh, ooh
744
00:55:48,500 --> 00:55:52,820
♪ Whoa, hmm
745
00:55:54,580 --> 00:56:00,219
♪ I see your sunlight through
the window, it's magic, uh
746
00:56:00,220 --> 00:56:05,579
♪ My thoughts and body were just
caught by this traffic, uh
747
00:56:05,580 --> 00:56:11,139
♪ You watched time pass while
I kept myself distracted, uh
748
00:56:11,140 --> 00:56:16,059
♪ Will you forgive now
that I'm paying attention?
749
00:56:16,060 --> 00:56:21,939
♪ Uh, I see your sunlight through
the window, it's magic, uh
750
00:56:21,940 --> 00:56:27,339
♪ My thoughts and body were just
caught by this traffic, uh
751
00:56:27,340 --> 00:56:30,259
♪ Where did our time go?
752
00:56:30,260 --> 00:56:33,179
♪ Encounters beautiful
753
00:56:33,180 --> 00:56:41,180
♪ Only you are the one
to break the shackles of my burden
754
00:56:41,620 --> 00:56:47,099
♪ Are the one to show me
glory in the moment
755
00:56:47,100 --> 00:56:48,739
♪ Cannot pay you back
756
00:56:48,740 --> 00:56:52,499
♪ Even if I could, I can
only fall on my knees
757
00:56:52,500 --> 00:56:57,539
♪ Show my gratitude for your deeds
758
00:56:57,540 --> 00:56:59,619
♪ I see your sunlight through
759
00:56:59,620 --> 00:57:02,779
♪ The window, it's magic, uh
760
00:57:02,780 --> 00:57:05,299
♪ My thoughts and body were just
761
00:57:05,300 --> 00:57:08,419
♪ Caught by this traffic, uh
762
00:57:08,420 --> 00:57:10,379
♪ You watched time pass while
763
00:57:10,380 --> 00:57:13,540
♪ I kept myself distracted. ♪
89561
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