Original subtitles

have you ever met anybody 99 years old

before first time first time hi Dr

sharpenberg there he is

aishan hi Sandy

dog

you still speak Chinese yeah a little

bit he speaks Hindu or jongwind lots of

Chinese oh really yeah yeah she speaks

Mandarin but come back out here but it's

kind of pretty out here oh it's pretty

in here too it's gorgeous oh my gosh

this is Chinese is amazing yeah so

that's awesome that's Dr John

scharfenberg who turns a hundred in a

few months my friend Michelle sen

Charmed him into letting us visit him in

his home and I thought how wonderful she

can interview him in his beautiful

backyard and I can run the cameras and

enjoy the show but Michelle being

Michelle she dragged me into the

interview and persuaded him to let us

inspect his kitchen and home office John

received his MD from Loma Linda

University in 1948 and a masters in

public health from Harvard in 1956. he

is an Adventist and a vegetarian from

birth not uncommon among Adventists here

he is a half century you go let's take

another cancer

lymph gland cancer

Dr Alan Cunningham went around the world

check 16 countries and he noticed that

as the meat intake went up particularly

with beef the risk of lymph gland cancer

increased so from the anatomy standpoint

alone it looks like our creator made us

to be a kind of an animal that does not

eat other animals I read two of his

books while editing this episode six

extra years and problems with meat

Michelle sen is a recent Stanford grad

in science technology and society and

she knows things about nutrition because

she works at True North Health Center

whose founder has gone viral on YouTube

for its impressive results from

medically supervised water fasting part

one of this episode is on the simple

Lifestyle Changes almost all of us can

make and understand that have a profound

impact on our health part two is me

grilling John about the amazing

breakthroughs in our understanding of

nutrition over the last 70 years and

part three is discovering John's

extraordinary life in Public Health by

rummaging through his office to get

started I'm just going to ask you some

yes or no questions just to introduce

yourself so do you smoke I don't smoke

Never Smoke do you drink any alcohol no

never have do you need any assistance to

walk yes so now sometimes not to walk

but to go up steps or down steps I

sometimes need a little bit okay this is

a railing guys don't have any problems

okay do you wear glasses no and that's

because I had cataracts and had

cataracts removed

and they put in 2020 lenses so I have 20

20 Vision through my glasses away

and can you drive yes I drive do you

drive at night yes and how old are you

Dr John scharfenberg I am 99 but of

course

in China

I'm in my hundredth year so they call

that a hundred right because you're born

in Shanghai I was born Shanghai but you

they list the year you in as hundreds

but

the US people say you have to finish the

hundred year before they call you

hundred so you're already in there yeah

wow

in one sentence what should people eat

a university of course in one cent

eat that's the proper time that means no

snacking eat at the proper time

a variety not all of one meal you get

too fat that way but over 10 day period

so make sure you get all the nutrients

you should have eat a variety of

different foods so eat at the prophesy a

variety of natural

non-processed Foods in quantities for

ideal weight that's all you need to know

everything else explains why the

sentence is true and do you yourself eat

any animal products like dairy or I do

I'm a lacto oh vegetarian I'm not a

vegan and I don't like the term vegan

in Great Britain when they use that term

there was no religious connotation

but when the man

came here to the U.S who started in 1960

he had religious connotation he had a

monthly magazine on health for the

vegans he called it ahimsa

that means you don't use animals

for any business

to make money on you don't wear silk

shirts because you're using this

silkworm

to make to get a business from them and

you don't kill any insects and one of

their religions ideas was eat supper

before dark because after dark you're

more likely to kill insects

[Music]

so I I don't say I'm a a vegan I don't

like the term I say I'm a I I'd rather

have the term total visitor total

vegetarian I like that and some people

now adays say that plants are trying to

kill us what do you think about that but

who's trying to kill plants some people

say plants are trying to kill I've never

heard that before okay no no no I

haven't heard that some people are also

saying that high LDL cholesterol is also

fine for us it might even be good what

do you think about that well

you have to know about this whole story

of of cholesterol cholesterol Wars

cholesterol Wars yeah it's a big big

story

but here's something we've just learned

since about 2010.

a big advance in health

you remember when the Robert Koch

discovered

the bacteria and pasture showed how it

could make germs and you could get sick

from it with his flash studies

that was a real breakthrough in health

and then penicillin

about 1927-28 penicillin

was another real breakthrough

now in 2010 we've had another great

breakthrough that nobody's heard about

but it's exciting

here's what it is

the World Health Organization agrees to

it American Heart Association

uh the European Cardiology Society they

all agree to this

that if you avoid seven risk factors

lifestyle factors

you can reduce the risk of a heart

attack or stroke cardiovascular disease

80 percent

you can reduce the risk of getting

diabetes 88 percent

now what are these seven risk factors

tobacco

alcohol

inactivity no exercise

overweight

and then they said too much meat and

sugar

they added two others

they were high blood pressure and high

blood cholesterol okay if you just do

the first five you don't have to worry

about the other two because those first

five help to keep your blood pressure

down and your cholesterol down okay

so this is kind of exciting without any

medicine

we can lower the risk of heart attack

and stroke 80 percent

now that to me is really exciting you

don't have to have all these pills now

cardiovascular disease is killing

more people

than the next five leading causes of

death combined

and here we don't need any medicine for

it

just lifestyle exercise no tobacco

alcohol this kind of thing keep your

weight down it so it's kind of exciting

but doctors

haven't really accepted this yet

the authorities have leaders have

scientific people have

but the doctors have been for years

giving satin pills

to lower their cholesterol

they had the idea that if we would lure

everybody's cholesterol we'd have no

more heart attacks

it's not right it was an error yeah

they've been giving people statins if

their cholesterol level went up

okay

now here's the exciting thing

most of the studies were done on men

well they say women are just like men

now I'm a doctor I know there's a

difference

they're treating the women the same way

when they did three studies just on

women alone

they found out two of the three studies

showed those that took the pills died

sooner

then another problem what about men

the older men

do better with higher blood cholesterol

levels higher than what we think are

good

okay

so the people authorities in this field

said that if you get to be 75 years of

age you should no longer

be put on statins okay because they do

better with higher levels they live

longer okay

so that doesn't fit our our idea that

LDL was all that bad there's something

wrong with our Theory yeah so we were

told in 2015 and the world Cardiology

Journal

we were told here's what we should tell

our patients today

tell your patients that we thought

if we lowered everybody's cholesterol

we'd no longer have any heart disease

that was an error

but tell them what will really benefit

them is lifestyle lifestyle

no tobacco no alcohol keeping your

weight down exercise you know all that

kind of thing uh but even now

the authorities who say you should be on

statins

say you should try lifestyle before you

put the patient on Statin and most

people aren't doing that they just start

off with the pills right

so I'm not for the pill business

I don't believe women should be put on

statins number one and I'm sure that the

men

over 75 shouldn't be put on statins no

matter what their cholesterol level is

and I'm sure everybody will be should be

started on a lifestyle program before

they even try the medicines and why do

you think there is so much controversy

around nutrition and has it always been

this way well here's the problem

the doctors in their training have never

had a good course in nutrition that's

the problem right you go in to see a

doctor you say what should I eat for

breakfast tomorrow

now he doesn't want to act stupid so he

has to give you an answer

and he doesn't really know so he thinks

to himself

what did my wife give me for breakfast

this morning

he doesn't know what to say

scientifically which is too bad they

need a good course

and then another problem that we have

medically

we've been using cholesterol as an

indicator who needs statins as if that

would tell us

you know and it doesn't it's a very poor

representative of your heart status or

your atherosclerosis status very poor

another problem

we're having lots of groups of doctors

working together

and the leader of the group gets the

group together and says now look you

have to see a new patient every 10

minutes

otherwise we aren't going to make any

money on this

10 minutes isn't long enough to teach

anybody anything

so so these are kind of problems we have

medically see

and then we had some scandals bad

scandals

I don't know if you've heard of the

Cochrane database can you explain more

about it is the name of a group of top

specialists in different subjects all

around the world

and they're the gold standard when that

group says this is what all these

studies mean

that's what we should listen to

but recently

they voted the man who was most against

the pharmaceutical companies having any

influence with this group they voted him

off their group

that's the Scandal when did that happen

it just happened a few years ago no not

very logo wow and so that's a scandal

are they going to allow the

pharmaceutical company have influence

then here's another thing they did

they said how low should your LDL

cholesterol be

now I was one of the first ones that

said it should be 120. I had done

thousands of them so I knew what it

should be before they had any standards

then when the standards came out the

British Heart Association said it should

be

115 LDL cholesterol the U.S said 130.

mine was 120. so I hit it pretty close

yeah and

and and that was kind of exciting where

it should be but a committee got

together about 15 people

to decide how lower LDL cholesterol

should really be

eight of the 15 people

got some financial payment from the

company that makes the pill

to lower the cholesterol so they voted

it should be down to 100 LDL I see it's

crazy it doesn't have to be down that

low at all but they did it

because they were friendly with the

pharmaceutical companies and here they

have so on the top guy out

who was opposed to that and now all

these people were going to be the

immunization from the company by

lecturing for them and stuff so it's not

right money follow the money you were

professor of nutrition for over 62 years

at Loma Linda University so throughout

that time has it always been this way

that people keep disagreeing about

nutrition yes they have a bunch of

doctors you see don't have the training

in it the average doctor so they don't

know about it it's just a few people on

the top know what it should be like the

Heart Association was pretty good do you

think the problem is getting worse today

do you think that people are disagreeing

more than ever about what is healthy to

eat no

but they've changed their views on

something they've changed their views

and that made quite a difference in

knowledge what they knew

worked and didn't work but I don't think

we have to worry about everybody's

cholesterol level I see have you heard

of people talking about the carnivore

diet

sure me dying meat diet all meat and I I

don't think that's right either for

example

the fat and the blood of the animal even

the Bible says you shouldn't eat it the

Jews were told not to eat it fat in the

bud now we've found out

that the fat in the blood

has a heave

iron in it

and that increases the risk of colon

cancer

type 2 diabetes

and increases the risk of heart attack

so

for example in the big nurses study they

did they checked a certain number of

them

to see how much iron they're restoring

in their sternum they took the needle

sucking the sternum and checked to see

those that had the most heme iron which

was the meat eaters

they had more

iron there than the people who didn't

eat the meat

had more diabetes

so there are doctors who prescribe meat

if you're anemic they shouldn't

it's the iron in the meat is

more quickly observed absorbed so it's

good from that standpoint but it's

increasing colon cancer heart attack and

diabetes type two wow yeah so what do

you think is the best way to change

people's minds about nutrition I think

we need to get doctors educated

nutrition we need a good

of course in nutrition in medical school

they don't have it and that's one of the

greatest things for prevention

you know we just don't have that in the

medical school they should have a good

course they don't how often do you

yourself eat I eat twice a day only

and that's different than most people

now there's something new about that

there's a dietitian down in Alabama do

you remember her name

you know I don't remember I could

probably look it up and find out but

anyway she started in this country the

idea

now we as Seventh-Day Adventists used to

teach that that was a good thing to do

because Ellen White told us who we

believed was a prophet told us that

years ago so I brought up my children on

two meals a day

and uh when did I started When the

Children got old enough to see if I was

eating supper or not

when they knew that I was on two meals a

day too so I've been on that for years

yeah and what time do you eat your two

meals well I eat breakfast about 6 30 in

the morning I wake up about four I eat

breakfast about 6 30 and then lunch come

12 31 mm-hmm so I can eat with other

people yeah yeah at that time

and then I don't eat anymore and when

you get water when do you go to bed

early like eight to nine eight to nine

so so between your your lunch and you go

to bed that's quite a few hours do you

get hungry

no no you do when you change over to

start with for two or three weeks

but we say when you get hungry drink a

glass of water hi

okay so you don't no snacks no snacks so

I can't wait for wait to go check out

your refrigerator so you can see more

see movie yeah you said you like to eat

a lot of fruit more than vegetables

right you oh okay I like range

not rice and you said that before you

were going out to the black bear bite

the Black Bear Diner and buying food but

now you get help making your meals yes

this lady's sister she didn't like to

see me going out eating all the time so

she brings a lunch every day

what are your favorite foods mangoes

oh yummy yeah Manila mango

two months of the year in Manila you

couldn't get mangoes the temperature it

wasn't right but down in Cebu

the timber is just right they have

mangoes every month of the year wow down

in where again Cebu what is that island

of Cebu

okay do you have any favorite vegetables

trying to think what I like most I kind

of like snow peas

um but more fruits Tomatoes Tomatoes

yeah I like tomatoes I would argue with

myself whether I liked rice better or

potatoes it's a contest a long time I

thought it was rice but then I changed I

think it's potatoes really okay but

there's some problems with potatoes

what's the problem they have a high

glycemic index even compare so white

rice people say it has pretty high

glycemic index potato is even higher

potatoes like ice cream they like ice

cream oh wow and so there I have a

friend who's a dietitian already and she

no longer eats potatoes at all because

of that

all right guys

but it depends on what else you eat with

a meal right see and how you prepare it

so every time they do a study on it it

comes out a different number so I I had

don't go for that idea scientifically

yet I see so when you're putting

together your plate to eat are you

are you thinking in terms of the kind of

nutrients you're adding or are you just

eating Foods you're familiar with you

know when I was bringing up my children

I one week out of the year every year

practically would write down everything

we ate

how much

and then we take out this agriculture

handbook for the nutrient content and

calculate what we we're eating

and so my kids learn nutrition this way

the thing I was usually lowest in was

vitamin A

that means the greens ah see I never ate

Greens in the orient

fresh greens right because the Chinese

always use human manure and that's the

way you got amoeba

you could die from that so I didn't eat

that and I came to this country

and I found out that people who ate a

salad every day

has a great drop in there

the chance of dying um

if they have a a food that had vitamin A

and vitamin C in it both they could

reduce their death rate about three

quarters wow and so I began to eat more

salads greens but the foods I like the

best

I I was supposed I like lentils pretty

well you know I like

Chinese cooking while cooking I can eat

vegetables that way very nicely I I like

it and now when you get your blood work

done are there any deficiencies

abnormalities no except for my age

B12

and vitamin D

vitamin D

to be useful

is in young people because it has to hit

the cholesterol in the skin

and change the changes it it has to go

to the liver change it again goes to the

kidneys changes it again

and it makes a hormone which we call

Vitamin D okay and all these things and

old people are working to have three

so old people aren't getting it they

have to take a supplement I see so you

supplement vitamin d and vitamin B12 yes

every day that's yeah that's all gotcha

why do you think that the Chinese and

seven the Adventists live so long in

America I think it's a matter

primarily a vegetarianism we checked in

California the vegetarian Adventist

group

with the general population how long

they live

for example for the men in the general

population 19 and a half percent of them

live to be 85 or older but for

Seventh-day Adventist men

40 vegetarian men

48.6 that's a big difference now the

women live longer than the men

so in the general population

uh 39.3 percent of the women live to be

85 or older

but for the Adventist women

60.1 percent

um quite a difference it is yeah quite a

difference yeah and I

it's vegetarian what makes the

difference of course Adventists are an

unusual group to study because they

don't smoke or drink alcohol

whereas all other studies they have to

compare this group to that group with

the same number of smokers same amount

of smoking same amount of alcohol

confounding factors yeah messes up their

study administs don't have those

compound effective so that's pretty good

now in the Adventist Health study for

the men they had only 56 of the death

rate of the people of the general

population

44 lower vegetarian no that's for the

ones who are not vegetarians everybody

all Advent but if you take just the

vegetarian ones they have only 39 of the

expected death rate of the general

population if you take the total

vegetarians who don't use milk or eggs

they had only 16 of the death rate of

the general population so

smoking and tobacco knocks it down

44 percent

if you don't eat meat knocks it down

further

if you don't use milk eggs knocks it

down first wow what are the major

advances in health that you've seen the

last hundred years

you know the biggest thing that's

happened in this country is that we have

purified our water

so you turn on any faucet you could

probably drink it

I remember I went with some friends to

Mexico City

for a meeting on nutrition Big World

meeting on nutrition

two out of three of the speakers could

not give their lecture because they had

diarrhea

because because of the food they were

eating yikes and when we came home the

Food and Drug Administration sent us

letters

where did we eat what did we eat

well what did I eat there mangoes things

like a peel yeah but then there's

plantains you know and rice and things

like that they're cooked so we never had

any problem but I was surprised so many

people got sick wow so it sounds like

you

carbs like a lot of mangoes lots of red

so I think water Improvement was the

biggest thing we did compared to any

other country

and then another thing I think next is

immunizations so we got rid of yellow

fever

polio

smallpox

and even the measles and the German

Measles and all these things the number

of cases diphtheria will be gone number

of cases went way down

I wish people stop dying I've got all

kinds of data on that so I think that

was a big deal what about in your area

of nutrition what have been the changes

or major advancements the past hundred

years well I used to say before

1950 was the Dark Ages but we did have

some things that we did well

Paul Agra have you heard of pellagra yep

the 3DS

diarrhea

dementia

dermatitis

death during the 1940s early 40s during

World War II time we had as many as 100

to 300 000 people sick at one time

and since dementia is one of the

problems a lot of them were in jail

because they did crazy things so they

got put in jail

and what made it bad was the Chicago

Board of Health said it's an infectious

disease it wasn't nutrition disease they

proved it was not infectious

and so we got rid of pellagra in the 40s

we had degerminated the corn you know we

did things like this so they began to

add niacin to the food and then there

was no problem so that's one big thing

we did before in 1950. but before 1950

everybody thought you're crazy if you're

a vegetarian

you couldn't bring up a child on a

vegetarian diet right see

but from 1950 on it was really excellent

things that happened there was Frank

budreau he was a public health man

and he said

if we

you use the information we had on

nutrition

it would be as big a advance

as we pasture finding the germ Theory

wow

and I think that's right the U.S

government had advisors of Physicians

specialists

who've told them that the best that

people could have is a vegetarian diet

it's the optimum diet

so I think we should get more people on

that as far as we know only six to

fifteen percent of Americans are

vegetarian

but now that we know with the proper

lifestyle you can decrease heart attacks

and strokes

80 percent

and that's one of the main things be a

vegetarian

the problem was

people like me right they rebelled

against this so they changed it and said

eat more fruits and vegetables

but they really meant Less meat so they

added another recommendation

eat no more than five to six percent of

the calories as saturated fat

that means animal fat dairy fat no fat

butter fat cheese that meant it off

lard bacon beef

that's what we had to get rid of

so we don't use the bad terms vegetarian

or the bad term meat

we just say no more than five to six

percent of the calories saturated fat

calculated that means vegetarian time

advancements you think

yes I think there are some that we

should do

the next Advance has to be in getting

people to do what even they know they

should do

we don't know how to do that

you know

and

seeing a patient's new one every 10

minutes is not long enough to even try

but here uh lady is overweight comes in

to see the doctor

he writes out a prescription you will

now exercise one hour every day

she comes back one month later a little

bit heavier

did you follow the prescription did you

exercise no

and that he has 100 patients go through

his office like that he stops even

trying to educate them yeah that's our

problem yeah but the immunization has

done good job you know even without

immunization I was in charge of

tuberculosis control I did so well in

California that they made me a

consultant to CDC and it was kind of

kind of exciting uh because we just

about have it eliminated we still have

it another 10 years we'll probably have

TB eliminated that's phenomenal it is

wow and I have a hand in that myself

amazing thank you and thank you for your

service too because you serve for two

years in the Army right

four years four years two years as a

medical student oh okay they put me

through medicine yeah wow thank you for

all you've done what do you think has

gotten worse in the field of nutrition

the past hundred years

you see the cardiac rate has gone down

because of smoking going down

now only 11 percent of Americans adults

they're smoking

in California where they're a little

more smart people

it's only nine percent

so we've done well here in this country

uh and the state we've done well but

there are things that are keeping the

figures up

one is diabetes

two is hypertension

three is overweight particularly in

children

now diabetes

it is jumped

a lot in just a couple years about 75

percent

the rate jumped High well why it jumped

by 75 yeah in what time frame just a few

years it just suddenly went up and so

why why did that happen the people who

who are put on

statins medicines to lower their

cholesterol

uh

women particularly

have 71 percent higher chance of getting

diabetes if they're on statins so that's

one problem

we've been getting too fat particularly

children that's another cause of

diabetes and our blood pressure we have

people with hypertension and you usually

have hypertension maybe seven years

before you're diagnosed with diabetes

so all these things work together and

all of them have to do with a vegetarian

diet and what about exercise how

important is that to longevity exercise

is extremely important exercise helps to

keep your weight down

exercise helps you or hypertension it's

the best preventive for hypertension

there is exercise helps to keep you from

diabetes in other words if you exercise

and you keep your weight down and you're

on a vegetarian diet you won't get

diabetes so this is one of our problems

it's the lifestyle

and see the doctors have been telling

people safely satin pills they're going

by the cholesterol level

with the idea that if you lower your

cholesterol will not have heart attacks

anymore it's not true it's not true and

we made a mistake we should tell them

that lifestyle is important

but the problem is we haven't persuaded

people to live like they even though

they should live yes

that's why I'm starting to become a

therapist I want to figure out how do we

people know what to do but a lot of them

know what to do but they don't do it

it's hard yeah it's hard

for exercise how much do you think it

can compensate for being overweight

a woman who's fat I had a lady helping

me with my

PowerPoint lectures was she was

did it for a living for advertising for

purposes

and she was really big

and I said to her I said you know

I've got to talk to you about your

weight

she said I said you want's a good news

first or the bad news she said give me

the bad news first I say you should know

for every disease we know overweight is

going to increase your risk of dying

but the good news if you are obese

and she was real big if you are obese

but you exercise every day you will live

longer than the person whose normal

weight who doesn't exercise

oh she's good good because I exercise

well what exercise do you do I go

horseback riding

oh so you're just like sitting on it I

know the horse exercises but I'm not so

sure how much the person is yeah anyway

a man who smokes has hypertension has

high blood cholesterol but he exercised

every day

will live longer than the man who

doesn't have any of those wings who

doesn't exercise and what counts as

enough exercise yeah I hate to tell you

this but too much exercise

increases your death rate too

because hardly anybody does that

but they have these people running

marathons to think that's not right it's

too much

so they're trying to find out how much

is okay

we're beginning to get an idea of how

much it's not very far between a good

amount and bad amount

but I hate to help you with this because

most people aren't doing anything

a way of exercise what are you doing now

for exercise you know I should add one

more thing to the exercise bed

they've done studies with Alzheimer's

patients and

and probably exercise in mid-ease is the

most important time

not kids not old people like me but

exercise middays 40 to 70 years of age

you exercise in that age group might

reduce your risk of of Alzheimer's

so I think that's the important time

when I was 55 51 I moved out for my job

at Loma Linda started exercising by

living out in the country growing food

cutting down the trees and so on and

I outlived my brothers now 14 and

17 years now

and right now what do you do for

exercise walking is about the only thing

walking and sometimes do you work in the

garden I haven't been doing much here

see most of the garden was all in place

this was all in place oh it's gorgeous

mostly Farm flowers is not so yeah does

the Walking how much do you walk every

day I have been walking enough

but you should walk I think

at least two miles a day and why they

did studies

those who walk two or more miles a day

compared to the walk those who walk one

or less

and those who walk two miles or more a

day compared to the other had only 50

percent of the death rate

because their chances are dying in half

yes I think maybe you and the sisters

could do a walk-in a little more yeah I

need to do some more walking yeah is it

just hard to find the energy to or the

time well he knew there's a problem with

me

I think it's the association

I need to be walking with somebody doing

something with somebody else oh talking

or something maybe you should get you a

dog or something yeah

well I want to know what do you think

looking back on your life was the

hardest time in your life I don't know

that I had any hard time

yeah so I didn't no I live kind of a

protective life

now one thing that we should be working

on

is the aces

the adverse children's experiences

if a husband is beating up his wife and

the kids see that that's an ace

if

the kid is not getting enough to eat as

an ace if the most important thing is

the mothers aren't spending enough time

to help the kids emotionally

paying attention to them they're just

ignoring that's an ace

if the

if somebody is mentally off in the house

that says

if somebody's going to jail in the

family that's nice there's about 10 of

those and if you have about six of those

you may

cut your life

short by 20 years so I I think we need

to

do something to try to help our kids

have the right mentors to help them

religiously or take them out in the

country for exercise things like that so

you said that there have been no very

difficult times in your life and I think

um you know a lot of people they find it

hard to look back at life and think that

it was also positive so how do you how

do you keep on that characteristic smile

and positivity well let me tell you one

thing that happened to me me and my wife

uh we had moved from Longwood up in the

country

and I was waiting for my tax returns

people to get it finished and I had to

wait an hour or so so I went to see a

person in the house they weren't there

so I drove in the backyard and I saw a

big tall man walk by inside the house so

I knocked on the door

he came to the door

and the family was taking little windows

take them out make big windows

and

the man said you know there was a

burglar in here and broke the window

back bedroom

oh I said I'd like to see it

because I was knew the people I said

we're the people oh they're at work so I

went back to look at that broken window

in the bedroom

then my wife dropped to the floor I

what happened

I was sipping over to see what happened

then I felt the hammer he had on my head

he hit her with a hammer

Hammer he was wanting to kill us

to take our Cadillac we just bought a

secondhand Cadillac

kind of like my wife before and since I

was wooing it was a glancing blow he

demanded my keys I saw him at him hoping

he'd have to turn around to get them but

he caught him I was going to tackle him

if he turned around but he ran out and

got our car

and drove off

now that new car had a number on it so

you could tell where it was

and I ran out on the street and I didn't

realize how I looked my face was all

bloody but I didn't know it my hands

were all bloody from this cut on the

head and

I finally a car stopped I said can you

get the fleece that man just stole my

car going around the corner now and he

may have killed my wife in the house

and so he called the police with a five

minutes of us right close so we went in

the house and picked my wife up from the

floor put on a chair she said what

happens if we have an earthquake oh

that's California person yeah California

she didn't know what had happened see

anyway they had about 20 cars lined up

that they were going up the hill of the

mountains and he wouldn't stop he wasn't

going fast but he wouldn't stop and they

had to Ram him that's the front ruined

my car

it was loaded with everything our own

Factory

and we got the car back and I got all my

stuff back

but having to give up the car because

it was total to it so how do you stay so

optimistic just by all these things

that's you asked what happened bad in my

life I would say that was the worst

thing right yeah but I was in Wars too I

was over in Korea when the Creole War

started you were in Korea yeah when it

wow

I

I had my house burned two times I all

your belongings burned to the ground not

quite but I was had a home right in

front of sigmundry's house the Korean

president I I was out of the house at

the time evening and somebody got the

kids ran out with one of our helpers so

that was a problem I went to the other

house

and I said to my wife this is the first

time I felt warm in Korea

I went into the bathroom I saw flames in

the wall through an electric socket

I called the Marine who was in the

duplex he came with a big accident he

had it down before the fur the apartment

came

out so I've had some bad experiences but

I wouldn't say I've had any long

experiences that were

bad for me right so I mean even now you

smile and you laugh all the time what

what is it what keeps you so positive

you know I think

what's positive

is is a I wake up every morning

and I say you know what's going to

happen today I know the Lord is going to

bring somebody to me that I can help

I have a friend of mine his grandson was

alcoholic he was despondent all the time

I didn't speak against it I just told

him look when I get up in the morning

I'm so excited I want to see who the

Lord is going to bring to be that I can

help

if I could get his mind off himself

helping others

so that's what I was trying to do to

help other people

but it's interesting how many things

have happened where somebody's brought

to my attention that I can do something

for well that's a beautiful perspective

thank you for sharing that when do you

have any current goals you have like

long-term projects you're working toward

well I'm trying to get my message out

about the lifestyle

which really basically is vegetarian

diet

see

uh

that's what I'm trying to get out

because it's so reasonable it's sensible

it's not hard to do in this country you

know but to get people that want to do

it

I'm trying to show them the reasons why

it should be done

I got six good reasons I give them why

it should be done and you know we

oftentimes think you have to be a doctor

or a PhD or something

to be able to tell people this stuff you

don't

I've taken kids and trained them in five

weeks how to do health education

and it worked it worked for example

given five reasons why you shouldn't

smoke

get them go out and tell everybody you

don't have to have an MD to do that and

you could take nutrition and break it

down into little bits and tell them

here's the five things you need to know

about it

um

and it works so I've tried that and I'm

really excited about getting organized

a program to work with young people and

get young people to do the education

like in your local area yeah I I have

all outlined how to do it

but I don't have the energy now at this

age to do it

I need to get somebody who'll grab my

idea and activate it I want to I want to

get kids doing it oh you should share

with us your your plans so that maybe

somebody who has the energy and time to

do it will do it yeah I'm excited

because I have all kinds of subjects

that they could lecture on was there

anything we didn't cover that you want

to make sure you shared

my dad

was heavily what temperature we call it

tobacco and alcohol

of our Adventist Church in Washington

Sierra Tacoma Parks Silver Spring area

he made the film

with a

Dr oxner chest surgeon taking out the

man's

lungs because he's smoking he had

cancers alone

and it was called one in twenty thousand

at that time we had about twenty

thousand dying every year from smoking a

lot more since that time

and this one was the one that was going

to be saved because it had his lung

removed

he took that film

he showed it to a British Parliament a

Great Britain London

it had a big effect on them over there

yeah it was

and he did

that in New York City in a big hotel 800

people there

some people would think those are the

days TVs didn't have much blood yeah and

this was what the people were fainting

oh my gosh oh my gosh

but uh my dad was a

really helped remove the stop smoking

program yeah

I think technology has been improving a

lot for example when my dad had cataract

surgery

he had to stay flat in bed for three

days

there was pain doing it I had mine out

in 15 minutes

you know I had it out I could get up and

exercise and do everything right away

tremendous change

uh for example

Dennis we are always used to be scared

to go over the dentist because it was

painful yeah

I have a dentist here now putting in

implants

no pain good no pain at all tremendous

Advance good yeah

I think of surgery

for example we may have more breast

cancer than we used to have

but our surgery is better

at we are saving patients from dying

yeah because of surgery

so there's a lot of things that

technology has been improving tremendous

in the medical field

but as far as what we should be doing

now I think is important yeah the aces I

mentioned or the children's programs

obesity we got to do something about

obesity

exercise

we got to get people exercising

and you have to eat less calories yeah

how do we do that there's two meals they

think it really works where he's having

more alcohol problems

much more alcohol problem

and that increases the women's breast

cancer

midlife

drinking is a bad thing we need to do

something about that

we should do it like we did with the

smoking

tax it

access to that that's alcohol waves

attacks are very high like they did with

cigarettes

besides the taxes make laws you can only

drink here there you know that's what

they did with the smoking uh

we've got to get people moving towards a

vegetarian diet

a lot of people are doing that

that means we got to educate other why

they should be vegetarian

in 2015 the US government said it's an

Optimum diet

but

not many people moved because they made

that statement we got to do something

yeah with that

now it's interesting about blood

pressure what are we going to do about

hypertension

I began to get high blood pressure but

not till I was in my 80s

and it's very low do you take medication

for it I do the Lost pill I am but it's

kind of interesting if I'd had it when I

was 50

have time to cause a lot of trouble but

I didn't get until I was 80.

so it made it quite a difference

but hypertension

if you get enough liminalic acid in your

diet

polyunsaturated fatty acids but most

plant oils you won't get hypertension

if you get enough fiber in your diet you

won't get hypertension if you get only

12

grams a day of fiber

compared to uh

24 grams

you have

about 57 percent higher risk of

hypertension if you get enough potassium

you with our rats they won't get

high blood pressure they won't have any

problems

and with humans there's no studies that

they don't get hypertension if they get

enough potassium we're supposed to have

twice as much potassium as we have

sodium we have it just turned around

we're getting twice as much sodium as we

are potassium

and potassium is from the fruits of

vegetables

yeah meat gives us 25 of our salt our

sodium is in meat

and a lot of our breakfast cereals they

had so

I used some breakfast cereals and first

thing I do I try to make sure there's

not more than five grams of uh sugar per

serving yeah it's me I got to be under

that for me to use it our fancy

cameraman Chris do you have any

questions I think you've done a really

good job of asking the questions how can

I get in to see Gary Fraser and

interview him he's a good friend of mine

he wrote a book you know in 2003. I read

it put out by the Oxford press in fact

I've ordered two of yearbooks how many

books have you written I have written

many I I'll tell you well I've ordered

two of your books I thought I heard you

say on Chef AJ live that you wrote a

book all about fat yeah I can't find it

I can give you one oh I want one I want

it autographed see it's just a little

pamphlets oh yeah it's my lectures that

I had with slides I made each page of

the book one of those and I have lots of

things like that now something I'd like

you to see I'm trying to make it

attractive oh that's pretty how do you

like that yeah that's a very prettier

pretty graphic you can't really copy

that very well oh one other thing I want

to show you you've got to see this then

you hold it up so the camera can see

yeah it looks like we got some slides

and I have this all on the computer

how's diet related to you're being

alcoholic or to open them at this point

Michelle and I got treated to a

fascinating talk linking junk food to

acquiring a propensity towards alcohol

and drug abuse the initial research was

done at Loma Linda in the 60s when Dr

Register was head of the school of

nutrition where Dr scharfenberg worked

Dr Register was a giant in the field and

one of the discoverers of B12 in the

late 40s the initial studies were on

rats whose diet was changed to the

standard American diet of donuts hot

dogs and all the rest poor rats if he

gave them a good diet here the height of

the line represents the amount of

alcohol they drink every rat knows not

to drink alcohol yeah they drink only

water when they put them on the junk

food diet they start a write-off

drinking some alcohol and seventh week

they took off and became real alcoholic

raps we've found out biochemically how

that works

the talk got pretty technical but the

bottom line is when rats ate junk food

their bodies produced opium to be sure

that we're right in our Theory we

injected these alcoholic rats who were

making morphine we inject them with

morphine they drink water really

wow that's amazing see they're getting

already what their body craze if you

give

a human being who's obese

you go give him an opiate blocker I have

one here that they tried it affects the

dopamine Center in the brain they stop

eating the foods that they craves so we

can now divide up obese people who have

a physical logical craving because of

the Opium oh wow from those who who have

another kind of obesity so are you very

familiar with the new obesity drugs that

are coming out

they're having they're having one of

them is a Sophia oh it is Locker costs a

thousand dollars it's expensive I've

heard it's very successful

yes but people who take it say Wow now I

know what a normal person feels like

because right now I'm not hungry all day

long but there's another group who are

obese but not from that reason see so we

can separate the kind of obesity now I

see because of this oh that's exciting

and do they know what percent of people

are obese because of no we don't know

they're just now getting into the

research on this thing

but you see Dr Register

found out with animals that's true yeah

wow way back wow 1960s

yeah amazing

but now we're finding out it's true and

they're doing it with overweight people

so something about their diet that's

making them produce opium

we got to find out what that is yes

so Dr scharfenberg sometimes I think

most of what we know about nutrition we

knew in the 70s we knew a long time ago

here a long time ago and now fad diets

keep coming and the food companies are

marketing and they're messing with our

brains did you ever meet Ansel Keys what

did you think of answer keys I had to

invited them out to my facility you did

yeah how was he what was he like he's a

doctor in physiology yeah University of

Minnesota yes yeah and he did the

seventh country study you know quite

respected right

yes there were problems with it but but

he was a well-respected scientist yeah

yeah and that that was a nice study they

did those seven countries study yeah I

knew him well the head of the Framingham

study was a friend of mine too so yeah

that was that was an epic study I heard

you say once that he used to think HDL

was significant in heart disease

yeah Dr castelli

yeah and then he said you know what we

found out in the modern day that HDL

doesn't matter that's right they did a

study of 600 000 people or some people

but wow Canada the Chinese comedians did

the study and it didn't seem like HDL

has anything to do with heart disease

yeah now all the talk is non-hdl

cholesterol that's right so and do you

ever talk about APO b or is it too

complicated for consumers the latest

thing is

that we can reduce heart disease

80 percent

Strokes 80 percent diabetes 88 with

avoiding these seven risk factors yeah

lifestyle rather than medicine yeah that

is brand new of concept yeah that's a

that's a Brand New Concept I've heard

you say that on other interviews you see

Ellen White was telling us this and I

was a medical student that bothered me

yeah you know how could that be yeah and

here we now know it scientifically isn't

it amazing it is amazing so I've heard

these Adventist professors say

we used to be thought of as crackpots

yeah that's right in fact I heard you

say tell Michelle you couldn't raise a

child on that's right now it's it's

respected and it's respected yeah very

respected yeah am I right in thinking

that the Adventists In America which is

not the longest lived population in the

world

are the longest lived people in the

world now they're the longest lived Blue

Zone they're the only ones that have

been scientifically studied yeah these

others the National Geographic man I

know him yeah he he didn't study it Dan

buettner yeah yeah he just wants to know

how do you feel about this diet yeah

it's psychologically he's not thinking

about the science of it I gave my whole

list of scientific things for longevity

yeah he wasn't interested in that yeah

oh that's funny but so but the

Adventists have had hundreds of studies

yeah awesome see this is why I want to

interview Dr Fraser because the

Adventist 2 study is amazing it is it's

one of the most amazing studies I've

ever seen he doesn't like the way I say

it oh really well how do you say it

he wants to look at it this way he's not

trying to brag about Adventists he's

trying to downplay that yeah he's trying

to say

what an Adventist lifestyle is the thing

that we can get everybody to accept yeah

fair enough and see that's what he wants

to do yeah and I've met him on the steps

I said look Adventures are doing so much

about he didn't like that he he doesn't

want us brag about that he just wants to

see hey these are things we learned from

this study that should help everybody in

the world oh wow yeah that's what he's

trying to do yeah I see he's a good guy

he's a good guy he eats some fish right

you know that book that he put out yeah

he needed to get time off to do that I

arranged for him to get oh financed oh

so we have you to think that's awesome

it was awesome 2003 he went to Oxford

yeah to get ideas on new ways to

calculate things statistically yeah

that's where he got the idea

what percent of the population lives to

be 85 or longer that's another way of

looking at it see he worked he was

unsabbatical at Oxford right yeah and he

worked with the Epic Oxford team the

other vegetarian study I I don't know he

must have known all that he knew all

their decisions yeah but he went there

to learn that yeah how can you look at

things sensitively in a different way to

make it

interesting to people well he has said

that their outcomes were very different

than Adventist outcomes and he said when

we looked at the data it's because of

what they were eating in the UK they

were eating a lot of processed food the

Epic Oxford study

with no good study oh really some people

commented to me on that yeah and I know

what they're talking about yeah because

the study group

did have the near the death rate

that the whole population had oh that's

where it was off it wasn't adequate

control group I see

interesting see that's fascinating so

they still it's still going on so

this is fascinating have we worn you out

are you done no I want you to see the

food yeah no we want to see the food too

absolutely it's not my refrigerator I've

got a little section oh we'll see your

section I only want to talk to you for

three more hours

Chef AJ's gonna throw you a 100 Year

birthday party don't

I think she is I don't know I have a

very exciting guest today his name is Dr

John scharfenberg I was surprised I got

so many hits oh yeah you're a celebrity

you're a YouTube Star

470 yeah eight or something like that

yeah a thousand biggest episodes she

ever did yeah it is yeah yeah and that's

not the only one where you were with

Doug Batchelor yeah pastor of the yeah

and I'm delighted today to have here in

The Amazing fact Studios Dr John

scharfenberg I had 500 000 in the first

two weeks Amazing did you ever think you

would touch this many people no I didn't

I didn't Steve Jobs you know him yeah

yeah he was my old boss is that right

yeah we'd go out to lunch well actually

I would go to lunch because everybody

else was eating ham and cheese

sandwiches on White Bread

and I would go to this little burrito

place and they had brown rice and beans

and guacamole and all that kind of stuff

and you just got your whole wheat

tortilla and then they would put in

whatever filling you wanted and Steve

started looking at that he was

vegetarian he started looking at that

saying that looks pretty good are you

Advantage Adventist and I said no I

didn't even know what an Adventist was

at the time and he said well can you buy

me some of those burritos so when I

would go out to lunch I'd get one for

Steve and one for me three two one

Memorial Day happy Memorial Day

all righty let's see what the doctor

eats okay

there's bananas okay

I have raisins

raisins

and prunes I haven't had raccoons for a

year I gotta get some foods I love food

we used to think that's just what old

people ate yeah I know but I guess you

qualify now

Brazil nuts

you know these have selenium yeah can't

you eat too many of them and get too

much selenium no oh really no but they

come from Brazil there's places where

they have sodium in the soil where they

don't yeah it usually comes from those

places where they have selenium yeah

it's supposed to decrease prostate

cancer oh I see and pecans

how's your prostate cancer doing I don't

have any problem

that's wonderful and almonds yeah and

cashews cashews so I have so much I have

trouble with cashews can you explain why

I don't know I can't stop eating them

uh Wallace is the best Handful in

lowering blood cluster yeah yeah because

of the Omega-3s uh yeah well yeah that's

right

and how often do you eat nuts

I hate and that's almost every meal

this is one of my favorites

tofu

and which part of this fridge is your

stuff just a little this little drop

that's sat next to it cook cereal I

think cook cereal let's

she always has it cooked here and

applesauce

and then down in here I want to show you

something where's the mangoes

[Music]

raspberries is mice

cherries you saw them here and the

strawberries those are my three bags

and you eat a lot of bananas

I like bananas don't they have high

glycemic index you don't worry about

that

potatoes you know yeah

hi guys but I don't really believe in

that yet

in Canada the British people did study

that but every time they do it they get

a different number yeah it depends on

what else is in the meal and how it's

prepared

um

so we aren't really sure where we are on

that but I have a dietary friend she

doesn't eat potatoes anymore because

yeah

but and but you eat a couple of cups of

oats in the morning sometimes when

you're not having waffles

I like the waffles the best they're the

best my wife

developed a waffle recipe

it's gone all around the world I know

because we use it you use it yeah with

bananas and applesauce that's right yes

and oats it's a good food it's not just

good for breakfast but it's good for a

snack later on our grandkids are eating

like bread yeah yeah yeah our grandkids

love them yeah can we see your books for

books come in here

it's not books it's a little little

things you study a room let me give you

the kinds of things I'm doing is

nutrition related to hypertension

pamphlet

let's see what else do it

I want you to get this one yeah I didn't

give references for it but I

miss you yeah

on exercise

there we go and let's see what's in

there's some good stuff there

yeah it talks of the benefits of

exercise it says sitting time increases

death rate

and the speed of walking is also

important

you can have that one if you want we

want it why I am a vegetarian well this

is a thick pamphlet wow you know I love

how you you made it so easy for people

to have these printouts and they can

read this now one of the best things

I've done did a School of Public Health

I discussed milk milk can you show us

that all the arguments against it all I

recommend is for it and then I divided

them

two ways good arguments a bad arguments

oh yeah yeah Gary Fraser says people who

drink milk have lower

colorectal cancer than vegans do

is he right that's right

because of the calcium but all of you

female organs are less lower oh if they

are vegans

yeah wow and we don't really have enough

numbers

what do you mean by females organs are

lower uh

breast cancer oh

uterine cancer ovary cancer if they

drink milk if they don't drink if they

don't drink if they don't drink less

yeah see it's only the colorectal that's

how I see I see uh but we don't have

large enough numbers to be sure to be

sure yeah now

he I said why why do I study coffee more

yeah

he says we don't have enough Adventure

drinking coffee only eight percent oh

really

I said Gary I was too one of the

strictest

Arizona Adventist churches

and I checked them out

and they said 40 percent were drinking

coffee oh interesting

I think the difference is I don't have

them put their name on the paper

that's funny

so you got to have an anonymous survey

you make it put some names on the paper

I said that's the difference

that's so great so great well this is

quite a library you've got here well

it's so much not much but but I Got

the Whole Foods Foods in their natural

state that sounds like Ellen White take

yeah take one of those I'll take it

give you the one with that okay it's in

here I think these are this is your wife

here

no that's my mother oh your mother

she was a very nice person we just found

that picture a while back well and she

raised you vegetarians my son

oh and the first time I realized that I

look at quite a bit of lighting yes you

do I was surprised I was about to tell

you that but I thought you would know

are these some kind of old letters over

here

uh like this

all right that's the letter I wrote

years ago 1991. I'll tell you why I

raise money for a group in Romania they

do it have a Lifestyle Center they have

programs three weeks or something like

that see it's 91 yeah but I raise the

money for them to start that thing I've

helped many groups like that get started

that's wonderful period of great

scientific advancement on diet and

preventive Cardiology 1948 and Beyond oh

that's awesome and you said right now

your current project is working on the

plan for for the young people to take up

I don't know who I can get to do that

kind of thing see

I think you don't have to have a PhD MD

to educate people I had a five-week

course in School of Public Health I was

afraid they might object to it but they

let me

not a year and and uh

they went out from there 16 banded

together it went out and started doing

programs very successful a wealthy man

in Philadelphia saw what they were doing

he said I'll pay all the expenses you

come up here and they did it's very

exciting what they did

these are the weed control programs I

show them how to draw blood in this

first girl usually we have a sticker

needle and an orange you know but I look

at practice of me and she got into the

first shot she was so excited she jumped

up in that wheel and here's the thing

was popping up and down my arm

you're a brave man I wouldn't have done

it

I was the first one to take students

overseas we went to little islands and

they were 8 is 12 is 10 inches too short

compared to the world Irish kids in in

the wealthy District in Manila see

they weren't getting enough to eat so I

I had evening programs

for them there's no electricity at

Village I had a glass launcher

they had worms we did worm studies oh

wow

and the stools the specials coconut

shell yeah one boy didn't have one so

his friends in this classmate gave him

part of his survey both had his Festival

anyway they have three different kinds

of worms wow and they had hookworm that

meant I had to do something about shoes

yeah I had to do something about

gardening we taught them gardening as a

rule the governor of the province

told every school they had disease

gardening now that was worthwhile

that was worthwhile you know I have to

tell you I got pinworms at one time

and they they crawl out of your butt at

night yeah and they make you really

itchy yeah right I know it's gross poor

Michelle over there is about to vomit

but I had a toilet building contest

wow and uh

we wanted to present immunization wasn't

part of us

wow because

that's their problem they always think

they have to have a doctor and I was

trying to show them they didn't need a

doctor see they could get well without a

doctor but just living right it was

exciting wow it was really good public

health so is your son a doctor yes I

heard that he married a nurse tonight

daughter is a nurse married to the

doctor wow that's great but I heard he

said you're only going to live to 110

and he said I was 110 yeah

what do you think about that I know I

think it's pretty good