All language subtitles for The.Age.of.Influence.S01E03.720p.WEB.h264-ETHEL

[ambient background sounds]

SPEAKER: Today we will be
discussing Tanya Zuckerbrot.

For the 10 millionth time.

[punchy music]

I love when people are like,

"I never heard of
this Tanya lady."

And I'm like,
maybe it's better off.

Even when I try
to get away from it,

people are like,
[whispering] "Oh, my God.

[normal voice]
I followed that whole thing."

[punchy music continues]

♪♪ ♪♪

SPEAKER: There were these
two influencers, essentially,

fighting with each other
on Instagram,

one alleging the other's diet
is causing

horrible health problems
for women following it,

and the other alleging that

that alleger was full of it.

- She took a 20-year career
and destroyed it.

- These are people's personal
stories they're sending to me.

- I can't believe we have to
defend fiber now.

SPEAKER: Social media
gives people the platform

to reach millions.

False statements can spread
like wildfire.

- Emily is reckless

and would republish
anything that was sent to her.

- The truth isn't scary.
The truth will set you free.

- No one lost their period
or their hair.

There's nothing in
a Fiber/Protein Powder

that can cause that.

- I'm spreading lies?

No, bitch.
I'm spreading the truth.

I'm sorry
if it fucking hurts--

SPEAKER:
I think, without Emily

and the character that she is,

I don't know
that we would have been here.

I don't know that anybody
would have taken it this far.

- You're a pig.

And you can quote me.
[pig snorting]

- I try and not play
in the mud with pigs.

- The drama,
the theatrics of it all,

it's become very histrionic.

- I have
a single white female.

I guess she's not single.

She's married with a child,
which is even more disturbing.

Stalker.

- I did what I did,
and I helped a lotta people,

and that is what it is, so...

SPEAKER: Both Emily and Tanya
have huge followings.

But what began
as trivial drama

between these two women

may have implications on

what you can and cannot say
about others on social media.

TANYA: I'm suing her, because
the truth does prevail.

What she did here
was so tragic

and so destructive.

- Every penny
will go to lawyers.

[whispering]
It's so horrible.

Hey, I gotta go.
[sniffling]

I have to get myself together.

Bye, guys.

[dramatic, edgy music]

♪♪ ♪♪

[ambient background sounds]

EMILY: Mike,
can I please have

my pretty blue cup from Italy?

MIKE: No.
EMILY: That looks like

a diamond?
MIKE: This one?

EMILY: Yeah. It's so cute.

Anyway, my sales
were great this weekend

'cause I ran a good promo.

I started selling merch
like online and Live

like a few months
after I got sued.

And when an army of trolls
were coming after me so hard,

they went after every
single brandle that I had,

and that was my source
of income,

so I needed to find a way
to, like, make money,

so I was like, I'm gonna sell
merchandise direct to consumer.

Some of the merch is just
like sayings that I like

and some of it is inspired
by the hate that I got.

Like Tanya called me
"menace to society,"

[moody music]

- I've said this so many times.

This woman
is a menace to society.

- On her lawsuit against me,

she said that
she can't get out of bed.

But she's, like, on vacation
every other day.

Two trips to Italy
this summer alone.

So I made an I only get
out of bed for Italy shirt.

Michael's modeling
Allergic To Bullshit.

- Just sue me, okay?

[both chuckling]

- My name
is Emily Gellis Lande.

I'm a social media influencer
and entrepreneur.

[quiet music]

I have a direct to consumer
business,

so I spend my time
fulfilling orders,

and I have a skin care brand.

Fashion has always been
like in my DNA.

Four years
after graduating NYU,

I started a handbag company.

We had a great run.
We were sold in Saks

and great boutiques.

And then we sold the business
in 2016.

I have a good eye for things,

like I know what people like,
I know what's trending,

I know what sells,
I know what women want.

And it's been

seven years of me focusing
solely on my digital presence

as a creator online.

You guys want my secret

to non-frizzy hair
this summer?

Well, Hairstory's
New Wash is it.

Trust me.
You are going to thank me.

♪♪ ♪♪

Oh, my God, another Live.

Look at this.
To die.

To die. Look at that.

I love my followers.

I don't even know them
in real life,

but we definitely have
a relationship.

Bye, guys. Love you.

MIKE: Emily really
cares about people.

I think there's times where

she is very vulnerable.

It's not as glamorous
as everyone, you know,

paints her out to be.

EMILY: I've always
talked about things

that I thought were important
on my page.

[bright music]

When I got into
this discussion

about Tanya Zuckerbrot

and F-Factor

and dieting and diet culture,

I honestly never thought

I would be talking about
this story two years later.

[plucky music]

As an influencer, obviously,
there's certain things

that are gonna touch people
in different ways.

The reason this story
touched me

is because I'm from New York.

Tanya Zuckerbrot's diet
was very popular

within my social sphere,
like years ago.

[mellow pop music]

SPEAKER:
Are you guys ready?

Are you sure you're ready?
Come on, now!

Please welcome the founder
and CEO of F-Factor,

your host for the weekend,
Tanya Zuckerbrot!

[cheers and applause]

- Thank you for allowing me

to share F-Factor
with you guys.

SPEAKER: When I first heard
about F-Factor diet

and Tanya,
I was actually in college.

She was one of the very,
very, very few dieticians

who was in the media.

ANCHOR:
We're joined this evening

by nutritionist
Tanya Zuckerbrot.

She has written
The F-Factor Diet

on how a high-fiber diet

can do wonders
for your overall health.

- I am a registered dietician,

so I reached out to Tanya.

And she messaged me back

and said,
"We are actually hiring."

That was very exciting to me

that I can be
in this environment

and learn a lot about
the industry

from a private practice
and media standpoint.

- We're in a fiber deficit.

We strip the fiber
out of all our foods...

LISA: There was a lot of
reverence

seeing her accomplishments
and saying,

I would love to be able to do
everything she's done.

She's someone that can be
very engaging.

She can be easy to talk to.

She can be very flirtatious.

She can be very compelling
and convincing.

And I think
that's what made her

a great face/spokesperson
for her brand.

- I figure
if I'm enjoying something

perhaps you could
enjoy that too.

And I'ma share,
and I'm a girl's girl.

LISA: The F-Factor office--
it was busy, it was lively.

It was a lot of fun.

It very much felt like
a sorority.

And we're making fiber sexy.

TANYA: That's the office.

[laughs]

Over there is
the conference room.

Oh, and there's Abby.
Beautiful Abigail.

LISA: This was the office.

This was the image.
This was the brand.

- Fiber's gotten a makeover.

It's not your grandma's
fiber anymore

where it's dried prunes
and fiber supplements.

LISA: There are three steps
in the F-Factor Diet.

The first one,
you're cutting carbs

and you're eating about
35 grams of net carbs.

Then you increase that amount
in step 2.

They can add more calories
and carbs in.

And then step 3 is considered
the maintenance phase.

SPEAKER: My understanding
of the F-Factor Diet

is it's a diet
by Tanya Zuckerbrot

and it's commonly used
for people

who are interested in
losing weight.

To be honest,
I think her diet

is actually a healthy diet.

That is promoted by me
in the clinic.

- I had started F-Factor
a number of years ago,

and it's...
really taken a big role

in my life
in terms of how I eat.

[light music]

For years,
I would resort to food

as a way to handle my problems.

At my heaviest,
I know that I was

about 290 pounds.

I wasn't happy with myself.

I had tried Weight Watchers.

I had tried, you know,

different little diets
here and there.

But I had never really
been in it to win it.

One of my girlfriends
had suggested

this F-Factor Diet.

When I got the book,
I was really connecting to it.

I brought it with me
to the grocery store

to reference it,
to understand what kind of

types of cheeses
and the meats that I could buy.

[bright music]

A hard thing for me
with diets

is that you're always starving.

With F-Factor, the more
fiber-rich foods I would eat,

the more full I was,
and the less I would eat.

All you're doing
is adding things.

Nothing is a no.

So this was just...
the answer for me,

my Shangri-La, if you will.

I'm proud of how far I've come.

I continue to work on it.

But I was very gassy
for the first month--

no question,
and it was embarrassing for me,

and I was by myself.
[laughs]

♪♪ ♪♪

LISA: While working there,
I definitely learned the book

in and out.
I had to know

exactly what to tell people
if they have questions

about the diet itself.

I had to be familiar
with the products

and the GG crackers that we
often recommended to clients.

- They are all natural.

- And then from there,
the protein powders

came into the picture.

- F-Factor Powder
is a product

that you can use
to get fiber

and add fiber to recipes

or to smoothies that otherwise
wouldn't have fiber.

[moody music]

♪♪ ♪♪

LISA: I witnessed firsthand

the popularity

really just become
stratospheric.

TANYA: Some of my celebrity
clients include

TV personality Donny Deutsch,

Ana Ortiz from Ugly Betty,

and I'm the official dietician
to Miss Universe organization,

so Miss Universe,
Miss Teen USA, and Miss USA

all follow the F-Factor Diet.

LISA: She was selling product
that people were buying

thinking that it was
going to help them,

and then showing off
all of her receipts.

TANYA: Hi, everyone.
We are headed to the airport,

and I brought my breakfast
to go.

This is an F-Factor 20/20

Frozen Raspberry Lemonade
Smoothie.

- She was buying
these expensive outfits

and going
to these fancy places...

TANYA: This is beautiful.

Welcome to Tuscany.

- And living
this luxurious life.

TANYA: Greetings
from North Island.

This place is...magical.

♪♪ ♪♪

EMILY: Looked who
I bumped into at lunch.

The queens of F-Factor
nutrition,

and they're eating pasta.

When I first met
Tanya Zuckerbrot,

I was randomly at Cipriani
for my birthday.

And she was like, "Heard you
say you're an influencer."

She's like, "What's your name?"
I told her my name.

And she was like,
"Oh, you should do a story."

You can be happy and F-Factor

and eat pasta.

We did the nice...
"influencer" dance:

I'll follow you.
You follow me.

And live your best life ever.

I never tried F-Factor.

The limited thing
that I've done

is eaten some GG crackers.

[crunching]

[muffled] Disgusting.
I'm sorry.

No.

[lightly edgy music]

That night,
I was woken out of my sleep

feeling like I was getting
stabbed in my asshole.

Eh, eh, eh!
And I was like,

what's wrong with me?

Like, I thought
I was gonna die.

It just was this horrible pain

which I guess turns out
to be gas pain.

[lightly edgy music continues]

ANGIE: Fiber is good for you.

Fiber is great for you,
and I actually

want everyone to eat
a high-fiber diet.

Having said that,
some people,

if they eat a high-fiber diet,
especially if they go fast,

they can get bloated.

- It was a no go for me.

Anything that makes me
feel like that

is not for me,
like I'm done.

I actually unfollowed
Tanya Zuckerbrot.

- It's our last night
in Aspen.

Tomorrow,
we head somewhere warm.

- She's always gloating.

She's always showing off,

and I was just like
I don't wanna follow people

that don't make me feel good.

♪♪ ♪♪

Fast forward to July
of 2020,

and a long-time follower
of mine said to me,

"Have you heard about
the controversy

with the F-Factor Diet?"

I said no.

She said there's these
anonymous pages--

pagesixhaseyes...

bitsywhispers.

They were posting all these
negative side effects

that people are getting
from doing the F-Factor Diet.

[punchy music]

I end up looking into it.

I ask my followers,
very broadly,

like, have you ever
heard about this?

Slowly but surely,

I start getting messages.

People are sending me these
really serious allegations.

"I have rashes and hives."

"I had kidney stones."

I'm having issues
with colitis,

like I'm shitting my pants.

I ended up in the hospital.

One girl had a miscarriage.

That's horrible.

You know, her blood work
came back high for lead

and she thought maybe it was
from doing the diet.

I don't think any doctor
has said

F-Factor has caused
these symptoms,

but the only common thread

is that they're on this diet.

Initially, I didn't repost
the things

that people were sending me.

I was kind of in the gathering
stage of figuring out

like how many people
are we talking about here

that have gotten sick?

And then, at some point,

those pages disappeared.

pagesixhaseyes
and bitsywhispers

all of a sudden go bye-bye.

♪♪ ♪♪

And I feel like
I'm in receipt of the truth

and these people
are really getting sick,

and they're gonna continue
to get sick if nothing is done.

I couldn't sit back
and see these people

be silent and just sit there.

I'm getting all these messages.
What am I supposed to do?

[edgy music]

So I shared them.

I've shared anonymous DMs
that I got.

I had no idea
what was gonna come to me.

And then I start getting
harassed--

harassed, harassed,
harassed.

[uneasy music]

EMILY: After I decided

that I was gonna
talk about it,

I got an abundance of
messages.

People were sending me

their symptoms.

They had all sorts of things
all over people's body

that you would never want
in your worst nightmare.

It's like the plague, it's like
The Ten Commandments.

These are like crazy things.

And then people were saying
F-Factor is deleting

all the negative reviews.

They were like, "Any time
that I went to voice my opinion

on that page, I either--
my comment got deleted

or my comment got blocked.

I'm pissed off.

So I was reposting them.

People reading the stories
that I was posting--

they knew
I'm a fashion blogger.

It's not like I'm claiming
on my page

that I'm some journalist.

So take with a grain of salt
what you see.

My whole point
was to help people

and provide information
that would be useful to them.

[tense music]

And then I started getting
anonymous threats.

♪♪ ♪♪

It felt like some sort
of intimidation ring.

♪♪ ♪♪

I've been told I'm fat,

I'm disgusting, I'm a pig.

I'm a horrible mother.
I'm a horrible wife.

I'm a horrible friend.

And then I got warned

that I better be careful.

I have extremely bad anxiety.

Turns out, yesterday,

I ended up having
a panic attack,

which I haven't had in so long.

Um...they happen.

They suck.

Um...it was fuckin' horrible.

My husband was really
not a fan

of me going down this path.

You know, he was like,
what are you doing?

They're gonna sue you.

And I was like, well,

the story's getting
a lot of attention.

[quiet music]

♪♪ ♪♪

Like people
are really writing me,

and there's a lot of things
coming in.

I was like,
there's something here,

and they wouldn't come for me
so hard if there wasn't.

[dramatic string music]

LISA: Working
at that practice meant

prescribing and recommending
the F-Factor Diet.

But some people
struggled on it.

And then there's people
who have side effects,

like GI issues from it.

It wasn't like
they were being told,

like, doesn't matter,
you have to follow this plan.

I was ready to help people,
using my own discretion,

and using my own judgement,

and it felt like I wasn't
able to do that fully.

EMILY: Up until my mid-20s,

like being skinny was
extremely important to me.

What really changed
my perception

is having my daughter

and wanting to be honest
with her.

I couldn't look her in the eye
and be like,

this is a healthy thing
that you should do.

I don't feel comfortable
doing it.

When I posed bikini videos,
so many people said to me,

"Thank you so much,"

like it's so nice to see
like a normal-looking body.

But I think that there's
still a lot of pressure

to be...very thin.

[light music]

♪♪ ♪♪

- There isn't anything bad
about wanting to be skinny.

There's only a problem

when sacrificing your mental
and physical health.

That's when it becomes
problematic.

People have really,
really struggled

as a result of this diet

because it got so big
on social media.

'Cause a lot of people
on social media

are...are influenced,
and it's consumed their life

because that's kind of
what they were looking for

to begin with.

So in my private practice,

I don't recommend
such a high-fiber diet

for anybody
with an eating disorder

or even a disorder in eating
and also for GI issues.

[moody music]

♪♪ ♪♪

- You do? Can I see it with
also in the screen?

Sorry. I'm being
really high-maintenance.

Okay. So that's with jacket.

Yeah, I think, okay,
I think it's a vibe,

but let me just see
without the jacket.

Do you know which is
your better side?

I don't know.
ANNA: I just know that

I'm better face-on
than my profile.

RACHEL: My name
is Rachel Greenspan.

I'm a journalist
who has mostly covered

internet culture,
social media,

platforms, influencers.

ANNA: I'm Anna Medaris.

I am an health correspondent
at Insider.

In summer 2020, I reported on
the F-Factor controversy

with my colleague Rachel.

It's a story about

people having a problem
with a particular diet,

which is nothing new.

There's been plenty
of diets in the past,

you know, people have
come out and said,

"This gave me a stomachache."

I think what's different
about this story

is the way that the F-Factor
camp reacted to the backlash.

Typically, you'd expect

a diet company to say,

"Wow, we're sorry
you're experiencing

"some GI distress.

"Why don't you stop
taking that product,

and we'll look into it."

The F-Factor camp
did not do that.

They were silent in response
to the allegations.

In the meantime,
Emily claims

these women
were really suffering

and had been suffering
for a long time.

And Rachel came to me
and said,

"There's a social media
scandal,

"and there's a big
health component of it.

Do you wanna partner
and look into this?"

RACHEL: We set out to

actually report on the story
and not report on the fact

that Emily Gellis was posting
these anonymous claims.

She was really not doing
much fact-checking.

The question is,
who are the victims,

what are they victims of,
what's going on?

ANNA: Those first few days
were a real race

to find sources,

but once you talked
to one person,

they would recommend a friend
of theirs to talk as well.

I talked to a couple
of women with rashes,

with hair loss, amenorrhea,

GI distress.

When women began
these products,

mostly the products
and not the diet,

they started experiencing
these issues.

And when they stopped
those products,

their issues resolved.

So that gives you a sense that
maybe it did have an influence.

But something that was
really striking to me

that it wasn't until
they saw these allegations

that they had kind of
this light bulb go off

that maybe it is F-Factor.

RACHEL: We reached out

and asked to speak with Tanya.

Tanya hadn't spoken publicly
about the controversy yet.

And I genuinely was surprised

that she was willing
to speak to us on the record.

We were confident
in the validity of sources

making allegations
about the diet.

As confident as we could be,

considering there's no way
to really prove 100%

the diet caused X, Y, and Z.

It was me and Tanya
both on the phone.

I was just sticking
to the facts

of, well, women are saying
this, though,

so what do you say to that?

Do you not think
there's any truth to them?

Tanya said, "I'm shocked
by these allegations.

"We've rarely, if ever, heard
these kinds of complaints

about our products."

But we did find
that she had received

many comments on Instagram

making these allegations
against F-Factor in the past,

and that her team
had deleted those comments.

And when asked about that,

she said something
to the effect of,

"We thought that was slander.

"We know that our products
are safe,

"we know that our diet is safe,

"and so someone making these
allegations about our diet,

it's just not true, so why
would we leave that up there?"

I remember her voice
was like,

"Can you believe that people
are saying this about me?"

She very much was
considering herself

kind of a victim of
some sort of "cancelation"

in that moment, and she
really thought this was like

a "smear campaign"
made up by Emily.

After we spoke to Tanya,
she almost immediately

does start commenting on
the allegations.

- So, guys, um,

thank you for joining me today

to, um, share what has been

a very challenging time.

Um...

for many months, I have
been dealing with something

and I have tried
to take the high road...

um...and not engage.

ANNA: When she finally did
speak out about it,

Tanya was very kind of
protective of the diet.

- These were anonymous accounts

that were spreading hate...

and the most vicious,
horrific lies about me,

the F-Factor program,

and the safety
of the F-Factor products.

- People were saying
certain things about her.

Um...she seemed, like,
very upset.

- This is not just trolls
in the basement

saying, "I don't like Tanya,"
or, "I don't like

the taste of her products."

This was with a targeted intent

to harm me and discredit me.

- It became kind of a battle
between the two

that was playing out
on social media,

and each is attacking the other
in kind of the same way.

- You're a psychopath,
and you're a criminal, and...

- This is criminal.

It is absolutely criminal
what happened here.

- The devil goes for
the best people.

[siren wailing]

[edgy music]

- It was the thick of COVID.

[crowd noise]

There was a lot of really
weighty,

important things
going on in the world.

And all of a sudden,

people care about this

diet drama on the internet?

[tense music]

♪♪ ♪♪

I would think
that in some ways,

people wouldn't care,
because they're like,

this is so petty
in comparison of like

what we're going through
as a world

and a society right now.

On the other hand,
I think we all just, like,

wanted to forget about
some of these bigger issues

and, like, get sucked into
some kind of petty drama

in some ways.

- How do you respond
to a lie?

It's a he-said, she-said.

- I'm spreading lies?

These are people's
personal stories

they're sending to me.

- Why do you feel the need

to tear down another woman

and another woman's platform

in order to make
a name for yourself?

- I'm spreading the truth.

I'm sorry if it fucking hurts.

ANNA: I think Tanya

was understandably
kind of drowning

in a social media feud.

- I was white, I was affluent.
It was easy to come for me.

If I was a minority,
if I was poor,

I don't think these women
would have dared

to have done this.

- Let's get it straight.

Don't fucking confuse

cyber-bullying

with people trying
to speak their truth,

because that's all
that I've ever posted about.

- This has been an interesting
experience to watch unfold.

How they respond
to each other--

we could be talking about diet.

We could be talking about
something else.

- It's my city now.

It's my city now.

The tale of two cities.
[rustling]

I'm taking this city
back from you.

- "My city now"?

Who is she, Leona Helmsley?

No...no sane person
would speak like this.

- You're sick.
You're sick in the head.

- She is a angry, sorry,

bitter, jealous,

miserable, unhinged

young lady who needs help.

- You're a powder-pushing,
money-hungry,

disgusting, gaslighting
greedy woman,

and I will put every victim
on the record on my page

until justice is served.

- I know God has chosen me
to do his work.

God has chosen me to...

inspire people
to live their best lives.

It's why God gave me these
blue eyes and these teeth,

so I can draw you people in.

[uneasy music]

RACHEL: People are watching
these two influencers

essentially fighting with
each other on Instagram.

A lot of my friends
and family members

were like texting me
and DMing me, being like,

"Wait, I've been obsessed with
following this on Instagram."

[dark music]

- She wanted attention,

she wanted followers,
which she got.

I think she grew
60,000 followers

from her attacks on me.

- Yeah, I think I gained,
overall,

it's a net positive gain
of followers,

but I've lost
a lot of people too.

- No. Getting followers
is not my motivation.

But it means something
when I see them

rallying for me.

RACHEL: Emily could have
come to the media

rather than doing this.

You could have said,
hey, ladies,

here's this New York Times
reporter.

Here's this Insider reporter.

Share your story.

And I remember
we did catch wind

that The New York Times
was working on the story

at the same time.

[dramatic chords]

♪♪ ♪♪

There was this one post
from Emily

that someone had alleged
to her in DMs

that they had a miscarriage.

And they believed it was
because of F-Factor

because one of the allegations
was the F-Factor products

had too much lead.

And the doctor was like,
you have an insane amount

of lead in your blood.

Come to find

The New York Times
reports

that, actually, that woman...
didn't exist.

[somber music]

- I'd gotten
a bunch of messages

with serious illness reports
and claims,

so hearing an allegation of
somebody having a miscarriage

wasn't entirely shocking
to me.

I only found out
that it was made up

once a reporter for
The New York Times told me

that the story was
purposefully planted

to prove that anyone could
say anything on the internet.

The story comes out.

And then Tanya did a Live.

- For those of you not aware,

someone sent in
a claim to a blogger

and she wrote, "I've been
using F-Factor products,

and I had a miscarriage."

And this blogger,
without fact-checking,

reposted this.

There's possibly
nothing more damaging

to a company

that is intended
to help people,

get them healthy,

than the accusation
that the products

cause a baby to die.

EMILY: It did not
make me look good

to end up sharing a story
that was made up.

It was a mistake.
Of course, right away,

I told people,
this is very disappointing

that this happened.

I would never wanna
share misinformation.

I was duped purposefully
by somebody.

- If you think for a second

that I would plant a story

about F-Factor
and a miscarriage,

you literally have to be the
dumbest person on the planet.

RACHEL: The New York Times
did report that that woman

is a cousin of an F-Factor
executive.

[intense music]

- I had nothing to do with it.

I was horrified
when this story came out

and I found out who it was,
because I do know her socially.

And people say, well, her
cousin works at F-Factor.

Guess what. They don't speak
anymore because of this.

[keyboard keys clicking]

EMILY: To the best of my
ability, I vetted the claims

that came through.

Of course I wanna make sure
that these people are real,

that these claims are real.

Influencers are not about
to start fact-checking

the way, you know,
journalists do to post things.

They're just not.

[dramatic string music]

♪♪ ♪♪

- I wouldn't expect Emily
to fact-check

the way we do.

I mean, she has
a different job entirely.

♪♪ ♪♪

- It gets to this kind of
interesting ethnical question,

I think,
of if you are an influencer,

without the resources
of a journalist

to actually do that
fact-checking that's required,

why would you even bother
feeling comfortable enough

to share those things?

- I don't know.
I really didn't think about it.

Like, again, I have
nothing to gain

from posting something
that I don't think is real

on my page--it would be
detrimental to what I do.

People trust me.
[chuckles]

They buy products
based on what I say

and they believe in me
and they trust me.

If not for that,
I don't have a career...

on Instagram.

[classical music]

♪♪ ♪♪

FRANCINE: The F-Factor Diet
can be very life-changing.

Emily Gellis hadn't even
been on it

and had the gall
to talk about this

and say it in such a way

that it was not just sharing

but that the stuff
had to have lead in it,

that it had to be poison,
practically.

Like, that just blew my mind.

♪♪ ♪♪

EMILY: I don't have
a medical background

to validate that
it's 100% these things,

but can the doctor say, 100%,

you had this because of
something you were doing

that you're not doing anymore?

It's the difficult thing
to say.

What's the common denominator?

In these women's cases,
or many of them,

it seemed to be F-Factor.

ANGIE: If someone says,
"I feel bloated,"

I mean, there's no objective
data to discern

whether they're being honest.

But so what?

There's gotta be a certain
level of common sense used

where, if you're getting
a little bit of

bloating and discomfort,

that means
you're just doing way too much.

You should cut down.

Unfortunately, Tanya
has to defend herself.

- Joining us now
for an exclusive interview

is founder and CEO of F-Factor,
Tanya Zuckerbrot.

Tanya, good morning to you.

- Good morning.

- A lot of the women
were pressuring F-Factor

to come out with
a Certificate of Analysis

to verify what ingredients
were really in the products.

And so, having the
Certificate of Analysis,

which is a third-party report,

would sort of help them
solve this mystery

of what might be going on.

RACHEL: She, like, timed
the release of this analysis

and this report with her
Today Show appearance.

and she's like,
well, here, guess what.

We do have the COA
here for you right now.

- Because of the recent
health concerns

of the products,

we are releasing
the Certificate of Analysis

because it will show
that our products

are 100% safe for consumption.

A Certificate of Analysis

shows testing for trace metals,

for microbiological content,

which tests for things
such as E.coli.

Anything grown in the soil,
even organically,

including strawberries,
cucumbers, spinach, and rice,

can contain trace amounts
of metals.

It does not mean that they are
not safe for consumption.

[dramatic music]

EMILY: They had me
on The Today Show

to ask me, like, what I did
and why I did it.

People have shared with me

that after doing
the F-Factor Diet,

a range of symptoms, including,
but not limited to,

hives, rashes, bleeding,

extreme gastric distress,

trips to the hospital,
getting colonoscopies,

having tests run.

I want these women
to have their voices heard.

I want justice for them,

whatever that might be.

- By using a platform

to attack another,

you create this mob mentality.

It's not just one person
trying to

knock down the door
of a house.

It's a mob of people
trying to burn that house down.

♪♪ ♪♪

Now, if the statements
are true

that these products
cause sickness in people,

then perhaps
that's what's deserved.

But if the statements
are false

and the motivation is,

"I'm doing this because
it's gaining me popularity"...

- It's a war.

That was a battle.
This is gonna be a war.

- That's someone that should
be held accountable.

- You fucked all of society
in the ass.

[muttering] moms are pissed,

the hedge fund husbands
are not happy.

They don't wanna
eat the arsenic either.

[moody music]

DAVE: I think, unfortunately,
people don't appreciate

the impact their statements
can make

when they're sitting behind
a computer screen.

I'm Dave Wishnew.

I'm a partner at Crawford,
Wishnew & Lang.

For a lawyer
looking from the outside,

Emily has a platform,

and it's a powerful platform.

A influencer,
a blue check mark

can use that platform
to build up a brand

and sell products.

That same person
can use that platform

to take down a brand
or take down a person,

take down someone's business.

The damage that can be done
is immeasurable.

[background chatter]

- I found out I was being
sued from a reporter.

And I was like,
"What lawsuit?"

I hadn't even been served yet.

She then sent it to me.

You know, I had an initial,
like, upset reaction.

I have no words.

I would never
[mutters] right.

I cannot even breathe.

I cannot believe how disgusting
and dirty you people are.

Like, literally.

- I'm not suing her
to silence her

or to make her feel
financial pain.

The reason I'm suing her

is to make sure
she doesn't do this again.

Because if she doesn't
learn a lesson,

she will do this again.

She will do it to someone else.

[perky music]

- It's certainly not surprising
that Tanya sued her.

Emily's father is an attorney

and kept saying to her,

"Why are you doing this?
You should stop doing this."

And her sister said

something similar.

They were like,
"Girl, what is going on?"

Why are you this, like,

you know, vigilante
like Spider-Man of fiber?

[laughter]

DAVE: The main trust
of that lawsuit

are claims that 4,500-plus
statements made by Emily

were false and defamatory

and have injured Tanya
and her business.

Um, and caused great
financial and emotional harm.

And then they intend
to demonstrate

how that statement is false.

She doesn't put high levels
of arsenic in her products.

That it's not causing
miscarriages.

♪♪ ♪♪

ANNA: In the lawsuit,
Tanya affirms

that her diet and products
are safe

and denies Emily's claims
that she threatened her

or sent others
to harass and bully her.

- Not one gossip rag about me,

not one negative piece
of press--nothing.

I had worked really hard
for my reputation.

And in six months,
she destroyed it.

- Tanya's lawyers
have stated

that she's lost
90% of her income

and will ultimately
ask the jury

to award her money
to make up for

for both the past losses
and any losses in the future.

- I remember when we got it.

My stomach sunk.

EMILY: My lawyers were like,
we're gonna countersue,

because this is your
First Amendment right.

DAVE: Emily's lawyers
have argued

that Emily is protected
from liability

The argument being
that she is a user,

but she is providing a platform

and that she is merely posting,

um, statements made
by other third parties.

Twitter and Facebook
cannot be held liable

if a user posts a statement
of fact that is false

just because
it's on that platform.

But the judge has stated

that Emily is not
a internet service provider.

She is a content provider.

She is making
her own statements.

The judge also dismissed
her counterclaims.

ANNA: The judge wrote that
to win her defamation claim,

Tanya needed to show that

Emily knew her statements
were false

or recklessly disregarded

whether they were false
or not.

So Emily has the opportunity
to defend herself there.

But the judge also wrote,

"Although the First Amendment
gives Gellis broad freedom

"to express her thoughts
and opinions,

"she does not have
legal immunity

to publish false
factual information."

♪♪ ♪♪

EMILY: That wasn't
a great decision.

We're appealing it.

But if I don't prevail,

then I think everybody will be
deleting their Instagram.

That basically you have
no First Amendment rights,

which is very scary.

ANNA: You'd think
that at some point

these women would just
stop attacking each other

and let it play out in court
instead of on Instagram,

but that just never
seemed to happen.

- You can't just say things...

using Instagram as fact,

because if that was
a newspaper,

a newspaper you could sue.

But Instagram is like
the Wild West,

and there is--
there's no precedent right now.

There's no...there's no laws
that she was breaking.

It's her First Amendment
right is what she's claiming.

But we're gonna prove
otherwise.

We're gonna prove
there was malice.

- You are out of

your fucking minds.

Like, you have...

more screws loose

than I ever knew.

And if you think
that you're gonna keep

going on fucking Live
and talking about me,

and that I'm not gonna go
right back on Live

and talk about you,
you're also insane.

[heavy music]

♪♪ ♪♪

EMILY: Tanya sued me
for millions of dollars

that she knows I don't have.

I believe it was meant
to silence me.

Meanwhile, her loyal followers

continue to personally
harass me, and they never stop.

MIKE:
People are dedicating

their time to

bullying my wife
and my wife's family.

A-at one point,
it was my unborn child,

and then my baby was born,

and [inhales]
it was just horrible.

EMILY: I'm not just
gonna lie down

and let her talk about me
all day

without, you know,
defending myself.

So I don't like
that it's become that,

but that is what it is.

Here's the complaint, right?

4,500 defamatory--
harassing.

In your dreams,
I would harass you.

You're not important enough.

- It is so disheartening
that despite being slapped

with a multimillion dollar
lawsuit,

she still has not learned
her lesson

and continues to spread lies.

Girl, when are you gonna
wake up?

[ambient background noise]

EMILY:
In March of 2022,

I was at the park
with my daughter,

and I got a text message
from the New York Post:

"She sued you again?"

I was like,
are you fucking kidding?

[intense musical
de-escalation]

[plucky, suspenseful music]

EMILY: She sued me.

She put everyone else
on notice:

"You do something,
I'm gonna sue you."

- I will state on the record

anyone...anyone

who has been lying about me

or F-Factor is on notice.

- I had experience
working there.

And so I felt it was
part of my responsibility

to speak out about it.

- Lisa Moskovitz, don't forget
why you were fired.

So for you to jump on this...

you are a disgruntled
ex-employee.

- There's three sides
to every story.

What she's saying about me
doesn't bother me.

I know my truth.
I know what happened.

I know it didn't happen
like that.

I think the lawsuit

was meant to make Emily

an example for other people

that had similar platforms

and power to speak out
about it

for fear of being sued.

[plucky, edgy music]

- She's the most
litigious person.

Like, she enjoys lawsuits.
I think it's sport for her.

RACHEL: We published
a follow-up story

about Tanya's kind of like

huge, litigious efforts

against people
speaking out about this,

which ended up including us.

We got that email to

our editor in chief saying

you need to retract

this one statement.

ANNA: The letter
was begging us

to retract allegations

that the F-Factor Diet
caused a miscarriage,

which we didn't report,
period.

RACHEL: It's all kind
of smoke and mirrors in a way.

They're trying to scare you.

ANNA: A nonissue, but...
- Yeah.

- I guess it-it showed
that the article

mattered to them.
RACHEL: Exactly.

DAVE: Instead of focusing
on the claims of defamation

against Tanya's business

and the F-Factor Diet,

the focus of
the second lawsuit

are allegations of defamation

that Emily has made
against Tanya personally.

Now Emily's gotta fend off
two lawsuits.

- I didn't know people
could be so evil.

I really didn't.

And now I know.

Now I've learned.
[sniffling]

People can be this mean.

Society can be this dark.
Ha.

- This was not a small thing.

This was my life,
and this was my life's work.

And this was my legacy.
This was...

my child.
I birthed F-Factor.

I had F-Factor
before my kids.

[soft music]

EMILY: I'm not a journalist.
I wasn't trying to be

a journalist--I've always
said that.

I was blowing the whistle,

letting people share
their comments.

- In the perfect world,

Instagram and TikTok
and all these platforms

were used in ways to spread
scientific data.

But that is just
impossible to control.

Because anyone could have
a voice on Instagram.

So it's very important
to clarify

that fiber is benign.

EMILY:
People can support Tanya.

People can love F-Factor.

Mind you, at the same time,

my followers have been
super supportive,

and especially like when I've

come into legal situations,

they've tried every way
they can to support me.

The last two years,
our life is insane.

- It really was a very
difficult time.

- I appreciate that
you've, like, stood by me.

- Sometimes I wish
that you didn't do it,

'cause then you can focus
on the things

that you really love.

I mean, the reality
of the situation is

it's taken a toll on us,

it's taken a toll on you,
me.

But overall, I think
the most important thing

is that you've done
a really good job

in helping people, obviously.

- I mean, how many people
have come up to us

in the last two years
and said thank you?

- I-I can't even count.

- So, like, even if I said

if I only helped one person,

then I would have to say
that it was worth it.

Mike, actually, is initially
the one that had the idea

to do merch,

just like he had the idea
for the website.

It goes towards my legal bills
that are exorbitant.

- Honestly, it's just--
it's my beautiful life.

It represents our ability
to, you know...

- Pivot.
- Pivot.

At the end of the day,
we can lie down and cry,

or we can do something
about it.

- Lipstick.
- Okay.

- See? He made the face.

DAVE: If I'm Emily
and Emily's lawyers,

I would hope that some of
these anonymous sources

right now would be
filing claims,

filing lawsuits against
Tanya's company, right?

Because if those conditions
actually did happen,

that would support
Emily's claims

that what she was saying
was true.

- Let the victims
fight for this.

The so-called victims.

And yet, there's no
class-action lawsuit,

yet not one person
has come forward.

Where did all her victims go?

[edgy music]

♪♪ ♪♪

ANNA: The latest twist
in the story

is these women coming forward

and claiming
that F-Factor products

can cause intestinal
blockages,

gastric pain, disorder eating,

severe allergic reactions,

and other significant
health issues.

Not surprisingly,
in Tanya's response,

she denies
all the allegations.

So that will be another suit

that continues to play out
in court.

TANYA: Are you insane?

RACHEL: This dumb, silly,
trivial social media drama

is likely going to be
a multiyear legal battle

between these two women.

TANYA: Try to intimidate
anyone from supporting me.

- Emily has made it clear

that she's not willing
to, like, back down.

She really sees herself

as kind of like a hero
in this tale

and kind of a martyr
in a way,

and so I don't think it's gonna
end well for-for anyone.

I think it's gonna cost
everyone involved

a lot of money.

ANNA: Both Emily and Tanya
have gone on social media

to talk about how
this has impacted them,

and it continues
to take its toll.

- Nothing that I'm gonna do

is gonna change anything.

It's not.
She's gonna still...

rant about me every day.

She's gonna say
the same things about me.

She's gonna just go on.

It's gonna go on and on
forever.

It's never gonna end.
[crying]

It's literally
never gonna end,

and I don't want this
to be my whole life.

I really don't.
[sniffles]

- When all this happened,
and it happened so swiftly

and so viciously,

I pretty much fell apart.

I was not prepared.

You may see me as
an influencer.

I'm a clinical registered
dietician

who has authored two books.

I have been an expert
for Women's Health magazine

for Men's Fitness magazine,

for Fox News.

I was their
nutrition contributor.

To suggest that I would
harm people's health

for profit
is the most hurtful accusation

anyone could ever say
about me.

[perky music]

♪♪ ♪♪

RACHEL: IF it were me,
I'd go, all right,

let's wrap it up.

Let's-let's make a show
together...

- Go on TikTok together...
RACHEL: Yeah.

- And start a new platform,
yeah.

EMILY: I'm not gonna
just abandon the victims

of this woman
and of this diet.

I believe these women.

So I guess this is
the consequence

for standing up for people.

- Well, to Tanya,
I'd like to say thank you,

because there are people

that have absolutely
benefitted from it,

um...myself included.

- I want you to be educated

rather than influenced.

I want you to understand
how your body works.

- [whispering] My God.

I will have a really hard time

meeting another Tanya
and being nice to them.

I have PTSD.

[laughs]

♪♪ ♪♪

[dramatic music]

♪♪ ♪♪

[mellow guitar notes]