Original subtitles

One, two, one, two, one.

THE CHILDREN OF SALO - There you go, better?

INTERVIEWS WITH FOUR FILMMAKERS - My ears!

Can you hear? - I can hear, but...

D0 you have five minutes?

Shall we start?

S0, your first impression of Salo, your earliest memories.

My earliest memories, well I had heard about it from my father.

He had seen...

I wasn't living in France at the time, and he had sent letters saying:

"I saw a powerful film called Salo he explained a little what it was about.

And then, a bit later,

then I was in France, and later even, five years later,

I turned 18, and my mum was the one who brought me to see Salo.

She saw it as a useful movie that she had to show her kids

and discuss it with them, so my mum and I went to see Salo.

It was in the Latin Quarter.

You see...

The film is what it is. it's raw, it's powerful.

I can't remember what my mum and I spoke about afterwards, but...

it's definitely the most...

it's hard to watch, so you don't need to watch it again for a long time.

I think I only saw it again ten years later,

on video tape, but ten years later it was like I had seen it the day before,

that's how memorable it was.

I saw it when it came out, in '75, '76, at La Pagode.

I'm not anxious when I go to the movies, I feel like...

I don't scare easily. I'm a very fearful person normally, but...

for me, being a spectator is connecting with a film.

S0 I...

I watched the film intently,

unreserved,

and I think it happened...

just before the Circle of Shit, with the nails in the polenta.

I started feeling very uneasy,

and I didn't realise, because I had never fainted before,

and never have again, but I fainted,

during the Circle of Shit, and I left.

I know I went to the toilet, I went outside.

I came back when I felt better,

and I stayed until the end,

but there was a whole chunk of the film that I hadn't seen.

I was so ashamed, I felt...

ejected from the film,

and I was ashamed, as if I hadn't been a loyal spectator,

or I hadn't been a trusting spectator,

and that...

I had rejected something that had been offered to me,

so I felt terribly ashamed.

I actually bought the video tape,

and I held onto it for a long time, and just put it in a corner,

and...

I just put off watching it, because I knew it wasn't going to be an easy watch.

Then, one night, I just decided to watch it,

alone.

And indeed, it wasn't light-hearted.

I think that...

What I expected to happen, happened, so I think there was...

a pre-Salo and a post-Salo, a pre-viewing and a post-viewing,

which has nothing to do with the cinematography, but with the storyline.

What I think is true, but perhaps a bit simplified,

is that film is the art of the 20th century,

that the tragedies of World War ll were the worst of the century,

it's the film of the century.

I think there's something about cinema history that stops here,

that brings us here.

Then, something else begins.

It isn't the biggest film in cinema history,

but possibly the most important one.

There's a strong link between cinema history

and... the history of the war,

and the story of 20th century

that link happens in '75 with this film.

I saw this film just before working on Romance.

I was in shook, and thought it was horrendous.

It wasn't the right time for me to see it.

For example, with the topics of censorship and violence

and the effects on people,

I think it's an excessively violent film

and you have to be ready to see it, you have to take the initiative.

But I also think that it may be the only film in the world

that has... and I think this is why it is one of the best films in the world,

that needs to exist, even if you aren't able to watch it.

Because not everyone is able to watch it.

Not because of the film itself,

but because it may not be the right time in a person's life

to see it, it has to be seen at a specific time,

when one is strong enough.

But it has to exist.

And I really do want to see it again.

But when I do, it will be the only thing in my life

that I will be doing at that time: seeing it.

Once you've seen it for the first time,

you know what to expect,

so you don't react in the same way.

People have talked so much about Salo

that most people who watch it

already know that there is a Circle of Sex, a Circle of Shit,

a Circle of Blood, that there will be torture scenes.

S0 people go and see it when they are ready.

But I think it's more interesting if you see it unprepared

without knowing anything about it and seeing it for the first time.

When I saw it again recently,

I felt as if the film hadn't aged,

it's still the most radical film about violence

inflicted on humans that was made over the last few decades.

This year, when the film was screened once again at Reflet Medicis,

I didn't leave, I saw the whole film, I watched it twice,

two nights in a row.

But I do feel very powerless, watching this film,

very...

it's a very physical film

and while I try to hold onto thoughts and contemplation,

everything I feel for Pasolini,

the trust,

and despite everything in the film, it's as if I, too,

was offered polenta with nails in it.

I think that the most memorable and terrifying scenes,

and I mean literally terrifying,

like the terror that was experienced at the time,

were the reading scenes,

which I find absolutely...

I can't really remember how they were done,

I think they might even be badly done,

but those reading scenes,

I find them incredible,

and almost sadistic.

They are completely terrifying,

even more so than...

but it's a contrast, the film was very well put together,

at least from what I remember, because I don't remember that aspect.

It's a contrast with the violent and disgusting scenes,

the different Circles.

But that's what I found most memorable.

It's obviously the scene in which we're on both sides.

Where the young man who was a hostage

and goes over to the abductors' side,

and revels in seeing what's happening to him,

because it takes two in torture, the torturer and the victim.

You do to others what you symbolically do to yourself.

They were horrific murders and unthinkable cruelty.

How can people take it?

We look at ourselves and wonder how we would react if it were done to us,

except we're the ones doing it.

There has never been a scene like that.

There has never been a scene that has explained

sadism, masochism, cruelty,

and the enjoyment of cruelty in that way.

Visually, the film is striking,

because the atmosphere of the film is very powerful from start to finish.

But visually, there is a visual element at the end of the film

that is memorable,

which is the torture scenes that are seen through binoculars.

Because the edge of the screen is rounded,

lt feels like more of a mental picture than the rest of the film

and because of that, it's what stays stuck in my head

because of its particular cinematography.

The first real utterance

after the characters, those four twisted guys,

say "Your Excellence, President", etc,

I think someone signs a book in which there are laws to abide by in the castle,

and they say: "All things are good when taken to excess".

I don't know where that's from, but it reflects the film quite well,

because Pasolini took this film to the extreme.

I don't think he could have done it any other way.

This is the type of film where you can't decide that you'll remember

something more than something else.

I think it's a film that's seen as an entity,

and that's it.

Those who have seen the movie can talk about the real struggle

to bear the Circle of Shit,

more so than the executions at the end of the film,

which is very interesting to me.

I still wonder why I fainted at that point in the movie

as opposed to the executions that are seen through windows and binoculars,

how that can be more bearable.

That's all I really remember,

the idea...

of submission, of a body being surrendered.

What it did to me, was...

feeling the effects 0f fascism,

whereas before, in history classes or watching films,

fantastic documentaries, amazing testimonials,

I knew about it, I understood it,

and in this case, you feel it,

but that's because this film focuses on fascination

and not just accusation.

S0 it's a film that really does something,

it isn't just descriptive, it really does something.

S0 we realise the extent

of both the fragility and power of the brain,

of how rapidly you can go from one to the other,

of how easy it would be to be with the fascists and not the victims,

of how much you always need to think

in order to escape it.

And that's how I felt from the beginning.

I think that everyone should get to a point in their life

where they are able to watch it.

If you are only able to watch reality shows your whole life,

or feel-good movies, such as Gone with the Wind, something like that,

it means that you missed the important things, you didn't live properly.

You just ran from life.

S0 everyone should be able to watch it at some point in their life,

or they didn't have a life.

Easy.

It's also a film that can describe, in a way,

the atmosphere in concentration camps during World War ll

while films that actually describe life there

often leave out the torture and degradation inflicted on others.

It's reassuring knowing that this film was made

and still exists today,

because it means we can talk about things, nothing is taboo that we can't talk about...

You know.

There's hope for filmmakers that created films later on,

because you think that even though you can't exactly replicate this film,

it means that there is freedom of expression in the film industry.

I think that when the film came out, it was...

a bit buried under tragedy,

the death of Pasolini,

and perhaps today it can be seen in a better light,

it's more powerful because there aren't any events surrounding it.

Maybe.

It's educational,

and I think it needs to be seen at a young age

to people who are learning about the 20th century.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, and in this case,

it's true, but not when it comes to the violent images,

but really on the structure of the film, on its slowness.

The woman who tells the stories, the people who listen,

their facial expressions say a lot.

S0 it's the way it was made.

That's why I think it needs to be watched alone,

whether it's a video tape or at the cinema, it doesn't matter.

But it has to be watched alone, because...

it's easy not to see it,

if someone else is there, because you think,

I don't want to see this, I don't want to talk about this, what will I see?

L'll see a tongue being ripped out, I'll see people eating shit,

I'll see violent things, disgusting things.

But that's not what's important, it's a whole other level.

When you're alone, you experience that other level.

S0 I see the educational aspect of the film.

It needs to be shown to students early on,

to high school kids,

they need to watch the film alone for two hours,

and I don't think there's a need to speak to them about it.

It's all about action.

L think people need to watch Salo when they feel like it.

It's good that it's available for people to watch

either on video tape, on TV, on DVD, whatever they want.

I think that it's useless in the hands of a child.

I thought I was mature enough to watch it at age 18.

I'm not sure whether a 10 year old kid would be able to connect with it

or if it would benefit them at age 10, I don't think it would.

There's pre-Salo and post-Salo, it's a cornerstone

not only of international cinema

but of a unique vision that a film can offer

as opposed to literature, for example.

That's why it's an important film, the story that Salo tells,

literature cannot tell in the same way.

That is why it had never been told.

I think.

It's a very harsh realisation,

it's incredible, because we are always trying not to be ourselves.

All of a sudden, you look in the mirror and it's a slap in the face.

S0 I think it's one of the most beautiful films in the world.

"Beautiful" isn't the right word, it's big,

it isn't the same thing.

In an ideal world,

we need to go to the cinema...

not to look for...

only...

drama, feel-good films,

exciting violence,

gripping.

In an ideal world, cinema must have this dark power

that you can find in literature and music, too.

In an ideal world, there are no limits to cinema.

So of course, Salo is a good example.

But not just Salo, in an ideal world, Salo discusses film, too.

WITH:

DIRECTOR:

PRODUCED BY:

SOUND ENGINEER:

WITH THANKS TO: