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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:29,136 Grandma Chelly was always, to us, larger than life. 4 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:30,816 - What happened? - Yes, we do. 5 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:32,416 What happened? What happened? 6 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,016 And she was also unusual and eccentric. 7 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,216 What are you doing? 8 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:39,816 She was completely the most 9 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,336 un-grandma person that, you know, anyone could have. 10 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:45,856 In fact, when I used to meet people for the first time 11 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:47,696 and they would ask about me and stuff like that, 12 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:49,936 and then I would mention something about my grandmother, 13 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,696 "She owns most of the porno theaters in New York," 14 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:55,976 and then, of course, I would get that classic pause, 15 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:57,936 which I think I actually enjoyed, which was, 16 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,576 "Yeah, right. No. What does your grandmother really do?" 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:02,560 And I was, like, "No. That's the truth, actually." 18 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,576 Except for the fact that she was... 19 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,496 Jewish who celebrated Christmas in a porn theater, 20 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,536 it doesn't get any weirder than that. 21 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:25,256 Going into her apartment 22 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,576 was always an interesting experience. 23 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,336 Because we were little, we didn't really understand 24 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:32,056 that she was living over an all-male 25 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,336 gay pornographic movie theater. 26 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,696 So, here we were dressed in our little, you know, 27 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,496 Lord and Taylor coats and our shopping bags from Westchester. 28 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,776 And my mother would knock on the box office. 29 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:44,736 There was usually somebody there that she knew, 30 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:46,176 and they would buzz us in 31 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,016 and we'd just be in the lobby for a little bit, 32 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,896 and make a right and go up a very steep group of stairs 33 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,256 into her apartment. 34 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:55,696 And then, we were in her apartment, 35 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:57,456 and then you were in a different world. 36 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,616 Everything looked very golden. 37 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:02,776 It was sort of like a kitsch version of a '70s Trump, 38 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,976 sort of mixed in with a Greek Corinthian column mixed in. 39 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,976 It was all just a mélange of strangeness. 40 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,136 It was quite a scene. 41 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,176 The cast of characters that she had around her 42 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:15,224 were just like caricatures of caricatures. 43 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:18,696 You never quite knew who was a lover, who was a friend, 44 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:20,216 who was an ex, who was a future thing. 45 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,936 There was this cabal of Greek witches. 46 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:24,856 You know, very heavyset, 47 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,916 dark dressed women with deep voices, full of cigarettes. 48 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,056 And then, she would usually be sitting on the couch, 49 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:36,976 center stage. 50 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:38,176 She was holding court. 51 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,004 Like a mafia queen. 52 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,016 She had a very funny way of speaking. 53 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:47,736 She had this very sort of strong 54 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,312 kind of voice, like this, and she used to curse a lot. 55 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:56,936 It was always entertaining. It was just a show. 56 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,348 I mean, it was always just like a crazy family circus. 57 00:03:03,686 --> 00:03:05,783 And I always got this feeling there were secrets going on, 58 00:03:05,807 --> 00:03:07,996 that I had no idea what was going on. 59 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,308 Behind the Christmas tree, 60 00:03:13,333 --> 00:03:15,947 there were all the monitors of all the porn theaters 61 00:03:15,972 --> 00:03:18,936 in black and white, showing all these surveillance cameras 62 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:20,238 and things like that. 63 00:03:20,263 --> 00:03:22,412 So, even that was a whole level of craziness. 64 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,936 We would love to watch the videos, 65 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,296 so we could see who was coming into the theater 66 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,216 and count how many men with raincoats and umbrellas. 67 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,836 That's how we entertained ourselves. 68 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:37,656 But you didn't understand it. 69 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,456 I mean, nobody, not one person, 70 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,776 ever explained it to us. 71 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:44,496 Nobody ever sat down and said, 72 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,416 "This might make you feel uncomfortable," or nothing. 73 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:48,936 It was just like, "Here you go." 74 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,376 Oh, my God. What we got now? 75 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:53,896 I was very prideful about her 76 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,456 because she was so completely unusual. 77 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:57,736 Everything you said about her 78 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,136 just sounded like it was made up. 79 00:04:22,470 --> 00:04:26,239 QUEEN OF THE DEUCE 80 00:04:31,708 --> 00:04:34,028 New York, in the 1970s, 81 00:04:34,053 --> 00:04:37,897 was in a state of crisis pretty much for the whole decade. 82 00:04:37,922 --> 00:04:42,003 Businesses were moving out of the city, into the suburbs. 83 00:04:42,028 --> 00:04:45,169 People were leaving the city to move to the suburbs. 84 00:04:46,471 --> 00:04:51,047 Although it was an incredibly dire economic situation, 85 00:04:51,214 --> 00:04:54,118 it was an incredibly creative period, 86 00:04:54,143 --> 00:04:58,587 marked by this incredible sense of innovation and exploration. 87 00:04:59,511 --> 00:05:00,911 GAY PRIDE 88 00:05:07,722 --> 00:05:10,340 NY IST RUN ADULTS FREESTYLE LOVE THE CONTEST 89 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:12,816 New York City 90 00:05:12,840 --> 00:05:16,272 was very different in the 1970s. 91 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:22,336 Everything that I remember 92 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,496 was X-rated theaters everywhere. 93 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,976 You know, my mother's theaters up and down the street. 94 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,976 Chelly Wilson was one of the most successful Greek women 95 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:35,976 in America back then, 96 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,336 and this was porno movies 24 hours, I would say. 97 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,736 It never closed. 98 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,656 People just walk in one after another. 99 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:46,976 Very smart and very successful woman. 100 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,112 She knew what she was doing. 101 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:52,896 Chelly Wilson was a known person 102 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,704 on 42nd Street, also known as the Deuce. 103 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,016 I worked for Show World Center, 104 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,936 which was a sort of a landmark staple at that time. 105 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:06,816 It was actually a... 106 00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:09,096 a sex emporium 107 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:10,936 that had videos 108 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,016 and live entertainment, 109 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:15,976 and what we call booth babies, 110 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,056 where there were girls inside a booth. 111 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:19,776 You couldn't touch them 112 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,056 because there was a piece of glass between you and them. 113 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,056 Chelly obviously knew about us and we knew about her. 114 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,976 And then, when I got to meet her, we just happened to click. 115 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,296 We took a liking to each other. 116 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,056 I admired her so much, and I think, perhaps, 117 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,776 that's why she took a liking to me, 118 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:39,496 because she saw the admiration I had on my face 119 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:41,256 when I would speak to her. 120 00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:43,456 Well, she had the nerve to do and the foresight to do things 121 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,273 that I never would've thought of doing 122 00:06:46,328 --> 00:06:48,776 or would've had the nerve to do. 123 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:50,736 I'm not saying that she had great, 124 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:52,296 high ideals, 125 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:56,096 but she was a force of nature, 126 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,056 and that was what I found fascinating. 127 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,216 And really, you know, as a young kid, 128 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,616 to see people that can be that forcible 129 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,679 is really inspiring because you realize, "I can do it, too." 130 00:07:09,797 --> 00:07:12,576 I started out my photo career 131 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,816 working on hardcore porn films, 132 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:19,268 and I got the job because my ex-husband was a producer. 133 00:07:19,293 --> 00:07:22,811 Herb Nitke. He made a movie called The Devil in Miss Jones. 134 00:07:22,836 --> 00:07:25,570 The Devil in Miss Jones was an enormous hit. 135 00:07:25,595 --> 00:07:27,734 And Herb did business with her. 136 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:29,976 I remember meeting her and just thinking 137 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,336 she was just larger than life. 138 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,437 She was powerful-looking. 139 00:07:35,462 --> 00:07:37,437 She was like a ball of fire 140 00:07:37,462 --> 00:07:42,561 and just incredibly engaging, like you could not not like her. 141 00:07:42,586 --> 00:07:45,456 It was just something about her that was... that drew you in. 142 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:46,816 To tell you the honest truth, 143 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:48,176 I think I fell in love with Chelly, 144 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,863 in a way, before I ever met her daughter Bondi. 145 00:07:51,888 --> 00:07:54,015 I always basically wanted to be in the theater 146 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:55,736 and that's why I came to New York. 147 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,296 But that's a very tough business to get into, 148 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,696 especially when you're trying to be a performer. 149 00:08:00,721 --> 00:08:05,930 And so, I wasn't having too much luck with finding acting jobs. 150 00:08:05,955 --> 00:08:09,392 So, I took a job cutting film. 151 00:08:09,877 --> 00:08:11,576 A friend of mine named Sandy Johnson 152 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:12,936 had been working for Chelly. 153 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:14,456 So, he said, "I want you to meet her." 154 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,256 We go to the Eros, and we go up through the lobby, 155 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:19,456 and up the stairs into an apartment, 156 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,016 a very nice apartment. 157 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:23,776 And in the living room, holding court, 158 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,296 was this woman in a muumuu, half-reclined on the sofa. 159 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,416 And there were five or six people all talking to her, 160 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,256 and in front of her was a long glass coffee table 161 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,976 supported by two white elephants. 162 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:38,976 That was where all her papers were. That was her desk. 163 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,828 I said, "Who is this?" "That's Chelly Wilson. 164 00:08:43,986 --> 00:08:45,578 "She makes a lot of films 165 00:08:45,603 --> 00:08:48,336 and she has a lot of theaters." 166 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,505 I noticed some shopping bags all around the desk, 167 00:08:51,530 --> 00:08:54,095 and I looked down and they were filled with cash. 168 00:08:54,420 --> 00:08:56,316 And I nudged Sandy and I said, "What... 169 00:08:56,341 --> 00:08:58,016 What is this?" 170 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,136 "That's from the theaters." 171 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,096 "Sandy, come over here. 172 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:03,856 Give me a kiss." 173 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:05,616 So, he did, and then, he introduced me. 174 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,736 "Don. Oh, Don, do you make movies? 175 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:12,576 You want to make movies for me? We can do business." 176 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:14,296 Of course, she was tremendous at business. 177 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,856 She just did amazing things. 178 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,616 I think Chelly was one of the first, if not the first, 179 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:25,016 to import homosexual films to New York City. 180 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,656 The Adonis... 181 00:09:28,680 --> 00:09:31,936 that was a nice theater. 182 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,416 The Adonis Theater was one of the, sort of, premier 183 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,728 gay porn theaters. 184 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:42,296 It was so famous, 185 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,016 it became, then, a topic of a porn movie itself. 186 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,936 And one of the things I like about the porn movie, 187 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:49,896 it's called A Night at the Adonis, 188 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:54,176 is that it portrays the Adonis as a kind of community center. 189 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,336 What about that guy there? The one with all the keys. 190 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:01,016 We call him the Jingler. He's an artist at giving head. 191 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:02,776 Going to the Adonis was a time in my life 192 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,096 when I was trying to explore my sexuality. 193 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,936 I would go to have gay sex, and it was a lot of fun. 194 00:10:08,508 --> 00:10:10,804 It was all about finding a place 195 00:10:10,829 --> 00:10:13,096 where you can express your feelings, 196 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:14,536 express your sexuality. 197 00:10:14,561 --> 00:10:16,417 I love this place. 198 00:10:16,442 --> 00:10:18,033 Now, I don't think there's a room in this building 199 00:10:18,057 --> 00:10:19,296 I haven't fucked in. 200 00:10:20,087 --> 00:10:22,056 She named it the Adonis 201 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,376 after she acquired it. 202 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,376 Before the Adonis, it was the Tivoli. 203 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,976 She bought the Tivoli property from Gulf and Western. 204 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,133 That was really a premier theater. 205 00:10:32,158 --> 00:10:33,694 I think it opened in the '20s. 206 00:10:34,014 --> 00:10:36,950 She acquired the property on a very good deal 207 00:10:36,975 --> 00:10:39,191 because it was a porn theater. 208 00:10:39,216 --> 00:10:40,735 She was a great wheeler-dealer. 209 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:42,416 She had a lot of chutzpah. 210 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,736 Actually, I think she loved the deal 211 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:46,376 and making the deal 212 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,416 more than she ever loved what the deal finally led to. 213 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:50,703 It was fun, 214 00:10:50,728 --> 00:10:52,384 but she certainly didn't care about 215 00:10:52,409 --> 00:10:54,906 gathering lots of money to show off. 216 00:10:54,931 --> 00:10:58,734 She was not into luxury. 217 00:10:58,759 --> 00:11:00,495 She's living over a porn theater. 218 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,336 She could have afforded a very nice apartment, 219 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,711 any place in the city, but no, 220 00:11:05,736 --> 00:11:07,936 didn't matter; this was home. 221 00:11:11,094 --> 00:11:14,043 That was it, which is the movie theater. Yeah. 222 00:11:14,352 --> 00:11:16,536 Now, they changed the inside. 223 00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:18,207 They did a restaurant. 224 00:11:18,232 --> 00:11:20,928 But the structure, it's the same. 225 00:11:21,652 --> 00:11:24,563 She really started at the Cameo. 226 00:11:24,588 --> 00:11:28,335 Then, she picked up the Tivoli, which became the Adonis. 227 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,696 Then, she got the Eros and the Venus. 228 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:32,930 Then, there was the Lido West, 229 00:11:32,955 --> 00:11:35,016 and then there was a Lido East. 230 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,896 So, that's how many theaters? It's a lot of theaters. 231 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,696 This is the famous Cameo Theater. 232 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,896 That would play the X-rated movies, 233 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,736 for 24 hours, I don't know for how many years. 234 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,576 People just come in and out, in and out, in and out. 235 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,296 But this was the main attraction, all these lights; 236 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,256 this would light up the entire 44th and Eighth Avenue. 237 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,096 And this is where I used to work. 238 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,280 It was very convenient to go from one place to another. 239 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,816 She would call me, say, "Do this, do that." 240 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,016 And I would leave my job 241 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,856 with my boss's permission, because they were good friends. 242 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:13,576 You could never say no to Chelly; 243 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:15,976 whatever she wanted to do had to be done. 244 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,832 That means, "Shut up. I will pay you," and she always did. 245 00:12:21,004 --> 00:12:23,896 She will call me and she will say, 246 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,692 "Bring me four or five cartons of cigarettes." 247 00:12:27,761 --> 00:12:29,776 Means, "Has to be done now." 248 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,777 "Tóra." And you know, we would do what she wanted. 249 00:12:33,802 --> 00:12:35,895 My sister and I always used to say, 250 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,496 "Mother, leave us all your boyfriends." 251 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:42,293 Because she had all these people that would do things for her, 252 00:12:42,318 --> 00:12:44,855 tremendous connections in all different areas. 253 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,664 So, she would use them if she needed to. 254 00:12:47,689 --> 00:12:50,456 She would call me just to go upstairs 255 00:12:50,481 --> 00:12:52,351 and just listen to her. 256 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:54,176 "Sit down." 257 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,296 Okay. I'll sit down, you know? 258 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:57,777 And she would curse people 259 00:12:57,802 --> 00:13:00,203 that I had no idea who she was talking about. 260 00:13:00,290 --> 00:13:03,058 Not long. 20 minutes, half an hour. 261 00:13:03,126 --> 00:13:06,617 Then, she open up the closet, give me a $100 bill. 262 00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:09,183 "Get out of here now. Now, get the hell out." 263 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,176 As a matter of fact... 264 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:12,738 "Go to hell." 265 00:13:12,763 --> 00:13:14,259 That was her... 266 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:16,656 She didn't mean that. I know what she meant. 267 00:13:16,680 --> 00:13:18,360 Like, "It's enough." You know, I know that. 268 00:13:18,625 --> 00:13:20,514 A lot of times, she was very angry. 269 00:13:20,539 --> 00:13:21,816 She would try to tell you, 270 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,343 "You stupid idiot. You didn't do what I told you to do." 271 00:13:24,368 --> 00:13:28,095 Well, she was very emotional, because she's Greek. 272 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:32,064 And so, her temper would overflow a lot 273 00:13:32,089 --> 00:13:34,136 and she enjoyed that. 274 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,164 She really enjoyed getting into emotional explosions. 275 00:13:37,189 --> 00:13:40,652 But it was a great relationship between all these people here. 276 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,176 We were all like brothers. 277 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:43,976 We're like family. 278 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,616 The Eighth Avenue was to accept the person. 279 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,416 If they're gay, if they're Black, white. 280 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,416 There was no racism at all back then. 281 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,136 I rather would never came back and see it like this. 282 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:56,656 Right now, I don't see any life. 283 00:13:56,680 --> 00:13:58,416 I see people walking around, 284 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:03,368 but if they call this life? No. 285 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,456 Here she's in her glories right now. 286 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,106 She'd say, "I accomplished what I wanted to do." 287 00:14:09,131 --> 00:14:11,696 That's exactly how she was most of the time. 288 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:13,479 Most of the time, wearing black 289 00:14:13,504 --> 00:14:15,330 and holding a cigarette or a cigar. 290 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,136 She would rarely smile that I remember. 291 00:14:18,639 --> 00:14:20,616 Even here, she's not smiling. 292 00:14:21,361 --> 00:14:23,697 She never spoke about the past. No. 293 00:14:27,933 --> 00:14:29,429 Her sister and her brother 294 00:14:29,454 --> 00:14:30,906 were killed in the Holocaust. 295 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,536 In a lot of families, people never talk about it. 296 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,764 That's not unusual that they don't talk about the Holocaust. 297 00:14:40,303 --> 00:14:41,616 It wasn't something 298 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,049 that, you know, 299 00:14:44,074 --> 00:14:47,260 we were educated about or told about. 300 00:14:47,791 --> 00:14:50,456 I didn't grow up with my mother telling me, 301 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:54,924 "You had an uncle. You had an aunt. You had grandparents." 302 00:14:56,210 --> 00:14:58,266 I didn't even know I had a sister 303 00:14:58,291 --> 00:15:00,154 until she came from Greece. 304 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,856 I had no idea that I was Jewish. 305 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:07,536 Everything was on a need-to-know basis, I guess. 306 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,776 That is what I do regret because, 307 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:13,619 had I really realized that and appreciated that, 308 00:15:13,869 --> 00:15:16,776 I might have asked my mother many, many more questions 309 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,068 that I didn't ask. And I might have gotten answers, 310 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,176 and I might have even been very surprised 311 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,336 by what the answers were, 312 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,336 and I do regret that. 313 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,776 In 1983, I got Bondi to sit down with Chelly 314 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,976 and do an interview, because I began to feel that the memories 315 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,856 that she had were going to fade, 316 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,216 or we were going to lose them if anything happened to her, 317 00:15:38,907 --> 00:15:40,860 and it was amazing. 318 00:15:41,188 --> 00:15:42,616 Three. One, two, three. 319 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:44,896 Testing. One, two, three. 320 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,576 Tell me about the family. 321 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,328 The great grandfather comes from Spain. 322 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,364 My father, Davico Serero, went to Salonika. 323 00:15:54,723 --> 00:15:57,735 SALONIKA, GREECE 324 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,062 Salonika, known as Thessaloniki, 325 00:16:04,087 --> 00:16:07,008 had a very large Jewish population. 326 00:16:10,015 --> 00:16:14,690 The language they spoke was Ladino, which is Judeo-Spanish. 327 00:16:14,715 --> 00:16:17,016 That was her first language. 328 00:16:17,041 --> 00:16:19,137 She learned Greek in the streets 329 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,864 and she learned French in school. 330 00:16:24,028 --> 00:16:27,416 She was a Sephardic Jew, and they were extremely religious. 331 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,214 Society in Thessaloniki was very strict, 332 00:16:31,239 --> 00:16:34,016 and it was very difficult for her to deal with that. 333 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,372 She was more expansive than that. 334 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:38,736 And she, apparently, 335 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,188 was a whirlwind even then, in her early days. 336 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,216 They called me Solomon Serero 337 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,056 because I was like a tomboy. 338 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,176 And I loved to go to the theatre. 339 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,496 I became president of the theatre club. 340 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,436 I was studying, I wanted to be a doctor. 341 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:02,896 I used to play violin, you know, 342 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,296 and I went to a concert. 343 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,416 When I took the tram 344 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:12,096 somebody entered and stepped on my foot. 345 00:17:12,120 --> 00:17:15,176 He opens his mouth and says "Pardon, mademoiselle." 346 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,456 This son of a bitch, Moise Bourla, comes after me, 347 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,252 comes after me, comes after me. 348 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,533 And he says to my father, 349 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:29,080 "I have the honour to ask you for the hand of your daughter." 350 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:33,136 And when my father saw that he spoke French, 351 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,376 my father gave in to him. 352 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:36,536 He comes home and says, 353 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,696 "I found the man for you, you're getting married." 354 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:40,856 I said, "Papa, are you crazy? I don't know the guy!" 355 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:42,256 "We'll introduce you to the guy." 356 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:44,856 When introduced to the guy, I wanted to vomit. 357 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:49,296 He was short, he was a mess, he didn't know how to speak Greek. 358 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:50,856 So then they got me engaged. 359 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:52,936 He wanted to kiss me and I said, "You son of a bitch, 360 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:54,416 don't you put your hands on me! 361 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:55,456 I'll kill you!" 362 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,536 And I put my hands with my nails 363 00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,056 and I scratched him all over. 364 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,852 He was so repulsive to me, the son of a bitch! 365 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,176 My mother always said that she got married 366 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:08,736 because her father wanted her to get married. 367 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:13,456 And she respected her father very much, but she said, 368 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,416 "When you die, I'm going to get divorced." 369 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,376 What she resented most was the fact that 370 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,876 it was an arranged marriage. It was not her choice. 371 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,616 And that's it, I got married. 372 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:27,532 And Dino was born. 373 00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:29,496 And then I left him. 374 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:30,816 And you went to France? 375 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:32,468 I went to France, he took Dino. 376 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:35,136 He kidnapped Dino. 377 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:36,776 I went to France, to my aunt's. 378 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:38,176 She was not meant to be a housewife. 379 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:39,736 Let's put it that way. 380 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:43,336 She was not noikokyrá, I don't think. 381 00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:44,976 My father wrote me a letter, 382 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:46,896 "Please come back, I don't feel good, I'm going to die," 383 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:47,936 and so forth. 384 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:48,976 I said "OK". 385 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:50,256 So I came back. 386 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:51,336 In the meantime, 387 00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:54,416 my husband made me go with him in order to bring Dino. 388 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:55,456 He blackmailed me. 389 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,416 "You are not going to see Dino if you don't stay with me." 390 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,376 And he took me to a hotel to go with him. 391 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,736 I was like a mummy, you know, he was kissing me all over. 392 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,056 And I wanted to kill him! Repulsive! 393 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:09,176 Every kiss he put on my body, I wanted to kill him. It was torture! 394 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:10,856 And then, you got pregnant and you had Paulette? 395 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:12,376 - Yeah. - Did you stay with him? 396 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,736 No, after Paulette, I just left him. I threw him out. 397 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,776 She got a Jewish divorce, called a "get," 398 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,352 so that Moise could remarry. 399 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,416 Oh, this is me and my brother. 400 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,056 I remember. 401 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,136 You know what I remember about this picture? 402 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:34,496 Holding his hand, 403 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,256 or he's holding my hand. 404 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,921 I was born in Athens. 405 00:19:39,946 --> 00:19:42,095 And so, the divorce was, 406 00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:46,959 she would take the daughter and he will take my brother, 407 00:19:46,984 --> 00:19:50,128 Daniel, and this is how we were. 408 00:19:50,277 --> 00:19:52,158 My mother had a business. 409 00:19:52,183 --> 00:19:53,533 I had my own store. 410 00:19:53,558 --> 00:19:56,736 "ARKTOS" Rachel Serero, R. S. 411 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,376 I was making frigidaires, I was making stoves and everything. 412 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:00,856 I was making a lot of money. 413 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,696 And she complained to her secretary. 414 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:06,656 Her name was Ellie. 415 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,536 "What am I going to do with Paulette?" 416 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:10,856 Ellie said to her, 417 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,136 "Don't worry about it. We'll take Paulette. 418 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:17,056 "We'll bring you to Mama Yulia and she'll take care of her. 419 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:18,976 So, you don't have to worry about it." 420 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:20,616 I think she knew her limitations. 421 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:22,576 I think she knew, "I'm not a mother." 422 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,656 You know, "I can be something, but not a mother." 423 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,416 And then, the story goes, 424 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:32,816 or the myth goes, that a man came in the middle of the night 425 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,296 and scooped her up and brought her to this family. 426 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,976 Julia, who we used to call Yaya. 427 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,376 This is the way I went to Yaya's house from here. 428 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,936 Who is it? I don't know. 429 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,616 All I know, he took... They took me. 430 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,136 They were taking me to Yaya's. 431 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:54,176 They're in a taverna, having a good time, 432 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,896 and they're taking a picture of me sleeping. 433 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:58,976 I look horrible. I look like an orphan. 434 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,576 Look at my shoes. I have dirty feet. 435 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,016 Obviously, my mother told them to do it, 436 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,016 and whatever Chelly says, everybody does. 437 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,776 There was one thing my mother said to Ellie. 438 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,056 "Make sure that she doesn't speak Spanish 439 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:16,816 "when you take her home. 440 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,936 I want her to speak only Greek." 441 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,816 And the reason for that, I found out later, 442 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:28,504 it was because the Greek Jews had an accent. 443 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,176 Poland, September, 1939. 444 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,456 The German foe begins its ruthless march of conquest 445 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,252 and sets the stage for World War II. 446 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,736 And then the war started. 447 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:48,296 I went to see all of them 448 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,736 and I said, "Now look, because I know they're going to kill 449 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,616 all the Jews, I can get passports for you to go to America." 450 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:58,296 Because my friend was the mayor of Athens, Kotzias. 451 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,216 I said, "Let's go." 452 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:01,336 "What!?" 453 00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:03,616 Are you crazy, Solomon Serero? 454 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,056 We've got so much gold here. We've got so much property. 455 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,056 We've got everything. We're going to leave everything and go? 456 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:10,576 "We do business with the Germans!" 457 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,736 So I didn't trust anybody! 458 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,496 I went to Mama Yulia, I said, "I'm leaving you a letter." 459 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:19,376 You're going to keep Paulette here. 460 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:24,496 Under no circumstance will you deliver Paulette to my family. 461 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,656 No mother, no father, no sister, to nobody! 462 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,456 "She stays with you until I say so." 463 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,460 And I left Paulette there. Four years old. 464 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:39,816 She gave me a kiss. 465 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,788 She says, "I'm going away. I'll be back to get you." 466 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,976 She took her pinky ring out and gave me her pinky ring, 467 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,300 and that was it, and she left. 468 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,376 My mother left Greece in 1939 469 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,456 on the Nea Hell as, the last boat that left Athens 470 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,912 for America before the war broke out. 471 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:11,656 It's hard to think about. 472 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,792 How do you leave your child... 473 00:23:15,802 --> 00:23:20,798 and go to a country that you don't know anything about? 474 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,338 I came to the United States with five dollars in my pocket. 475 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,816 So I didn't know about America. 476 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,856 I didn't know how very difficult it was. 477 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,696 I don't know about that. You know? 478 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:41,216 And I met some people, Kay and Chrissy, on the boat. 479 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,856 So when I came out, I said "Where are we going to go?" 480 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,300 "We're going to go to the Rex Hotel with five dollars." 481 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:52,496 I said, "Kay, one day, you're going to be my helper." 482 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,296 "Are you crazy?" she says to me. I say, "I'm not crazy." 483 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,928 I said, "I bet you any money you're going to be my employee one day." 484 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,216 Mr. Yiannopoulos owns a lot of stands, you know, 485 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:07,868 with hot dogs and everything. 486 00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:12,496 And the next day, he says to me, "You know something, 487 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:13,976 I want to do business with you." I said, "Okay." 488 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,200 So he took me with a car to Dyckman Street. 489 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,056 He says, "We're going to put the stand there. 490 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:23,016 It's going to cost maybe $6,000, plus merchandise. 491 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,136 So you give me $50 a month." 492 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,256 She sold hot dogs and soda, and she used to go, 493 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,404 "Pepsi-Cola, Coca-Cola, 7 Up." 494 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,096 And I took Kay as my employee. 495 00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:36,456 I said, "See? We should've made a bet. 496 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:37,976 I took you as an employee." 497 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,016 My job, when I was very little, 498 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,456 was to fill up these bags with peanuts. 499 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,936 I was supposed to put 13 peanuts in the bag. 500 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,456 She sold them for 15 cents. 501 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,096 And I said to my mother, 502 00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:53,576 "You're cheating the people. You're charging too much." 503 00:24:54,172 --> 00:24:57,068 And my mother said, "Don't be a stupid. 504 00:24:57,093 --> 00:24:59,176 You have to make a profit." 505 00:24:59,340 --> 00:25:01,385 My first business lesson. 506 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,776 Salonika is in German hands. 507 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,976 This was the headquarters of the Allies. 508 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,696 Now, this important port has been conquered by our troops 509 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:20,992 after four and a half days. 510 00:25:21,947 --> 00:25:23,525 During the war, 511 00:25:23,853 --> 00:25:26,607 my uncle came to Athens 512 00:25:26,632 --> 00:25:28,415 to take me to Thessaloniki 513 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,009 so we can all be together, all the family. 514 00:25:31,189 --> 00:25:34,896 Yaya, Mama Yulia, said, "No, you can't take her." 515 00:25:35,322 --> 00:25:38,158 He said, "Yes. I'm her brother." 516 00:25:38,183 --> 00:25:39,759 But she told him, 517 00:25:39,784 --> 00:25:43,975 "Your sister told me not to give Paulette to anyone. 518 00:25:45,341 --> 00:25:47,376 "Even if my mother comes out of the grave, 519 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,017 you don't give her to her." 520 00:25:52,199 --> 00:25:56,375 As most Sephardic Jews did in Salonika, 521 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,216 they wanted the families to stay together. 522 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,146 But it saved Paulette's life that they weren't together. 523 00:26:04,952 --> 00:26:07,259 The Germans were rounding up 524 00:26:07,794 --> 00:26:10,490 all the Jews in Salonika 525 00:26:10,608 --> 00:26:13,704 and sending them off to Auschwitz. 526 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:15,884 They took them all. 527 00:26:15,909 --> 00:26:19,115 My aunts, my uncles, these friends of my mother. 528 00:26:23,517 --> 00:26:26,216 I know that, in Athens, 529 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:27,936 the way that the Jewish people were treated 530 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:29,616 was a lot different than it was in Salonika, 531 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,736 because the clergy of the Greek Orthodox Church 532 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:37,256 was very into trying to help the Jews 533 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,896 and trying to keep them away from the Germans. 534 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,616 My Greek mother told me, she said to me, 535 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,456 "You're a very lucky person. 536 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,176 "You have two mothers, 537 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,816 one who's away and she's going to come and get you, and me." 538 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:55,976 You know, if Chelly hadn't 539 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,456 picked that family in particular, 540 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,736 you know, who knows what would have happened? 541 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:02,696 I'm sure there are many other good, 542 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,736 righteous Gentiles in Greece, 543 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,416 of course, but they risked their lives. 544 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,216 They were a wonderful family, obviously, 545 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,216 who made very great sacrifices 546 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:13,976 and put their own lives in danger 547 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,916 to have Paulette living there as an openly hidden child. 548 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,940 Everybody knew that I was Jewish. 549 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:25,800 That I was Jewish, 550 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:27,908 everyone knew it. 551 00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:32,456 They also loved this family very much 552 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,416 because she was a wonderful lady, 553 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,168 and I guess they protected her. 554 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,776 And we were scared, because 555 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:48,776 if the Germans came, 556 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:49,936 they were not going to take me; 557 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:51,896 they were going to take everybody. 558 00:28:01,389 --> 00:28:04,533 You had to protect yourself and everybody else, 559 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,506 because you say one wrong word... 560 00:28:08,411 --> 00:28:10,971 And everybody was paranoid, you know? 561 00:28:10,996 --> 00:28:14,407 "Where did you find the meat? Where'd you find the olive oil?" 562 00:28:14,586 --> 00:28:16,176 There was no food. 563 00:28:16,201 --> 00:28:19,204 I mean, it wasn't only the Jews that suffered during the war. 564 00:28:19,229 --> 00:28:22,376 There was starvation in Athens. It was incredible. 565 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,135 It was terrible. It was awful. 566 00:28:28,037 --> 00:28:29,831 Chelly was very worried about 567 00:28:29,856 --> 00:28:32,229 everything that was going on in Greece. 568 00:28:35,377 --> 00:28:36,976 She was making money 569 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,237 at the refreshment stand and sending the money to Greece, 570 00:28:40,533 --> 00:28:44,333 to buy pieces of newsreel footage and cultural footage 571 00:28:44,358 --> 00:28:46,575 to put together a film about Greece 572 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,256 in order to raise money, 573 00:28:48,281 --> 00:28:51,096 to help the Greek War effort against the Germans. 574 00:28:51,121 --> 00:28:52,998 So, that was Greece on the March. 575 00:28:57,901 --> 00:29:00,120 She went to play her film 576 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,854 at the Cameo Theater, which was called the Squire. 577 00:29:03,879 --> 00:29:07,981 So, she needed somebody with the projector. 578 00:29:08,006 --> 00:29:09,936 Rex was a film projectionist 579 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,456 who came from a big theatrical family in England. 580 00:29:12,846 --> 00:29:15,336 And they were also Jewish, 581 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,256 but they never told anyone 582 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,725 because there was very little work for Jews. 583 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,389 So, they changed their name to Wilson 584 00:29:24,414 --> 00:29:27,651 and got work theatrically. 585 00:29:27,931 --> 00:29:30,375 He was very clever, technically. 586 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,166 He knew cameras. He knew projectors. 587 00:29:33,346 --> 00:29:35,901 And he was fascinated by her. 588 00:29:35,926 --> 00:29:37,378 I don't know why, but he was. 589 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,816 This Rex Wilson was in love with me, we got married. 590 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,136 The guy was coming every night and lighting my cigarettes. 591 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,448 He gave me cigarettes. 592 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:55,556 So I married him. 593 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,456 It was nice, he was providing me with cigarettes. 594 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:00,976 My father was very romantic. 595 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,204 Love at first sight. He loved her right away. 596 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:08,936 My mother didn't speak English then, 597 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,456 and my dad never spoke any other language, 598 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:12,816 except for English. 599 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,040 They did not communicate. 600 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,896 Their relationship was very tumultuous. 601 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,816 There were tremendous fights. 602 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:24,696 My mother threw the mattress out of the window. 603 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,936 The neighbors would call the police 604 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,524 because she threw every dish in the house and glass at him. 605 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,776 She went to work for the Hudson Shipping Company, 606 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:42,176 and she was the liaison 607 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,312 for the war effort in Greece. 608 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,156 And I sent $100,000 in merchandise. 609 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:55,696 Rice, sugar, flour and everything else. 610 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,336 She was very nervous about the children, their safety. 611 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,496 And she was trying to get information from the Red Cross, 612 00:31:04,651 --> 00:31:07,547 which she got some little bits and pieces of information 613 00:31:07,572 --> 00:31:09,208 about how they were doing. 614 00:31:09,896 --> 00:31:13,256 Daniel, he was stuck in Solanika. 615 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,333 Somebody helped him and hid him. 616 00:31:19,325 --> 00:31:22,333 The war ended. The British came. 617 00:31:24,652 --> 00:31:28,508 Everybody was happy. 618 00:31:28,532 --> 00:31:31,068 And then, finally, we got a letter from my mother. 619 00:31:31,092 --> 00:31:34,628 I found out that she was in America 620 00:31:34,652 --> 00:31:38,788 and that she was coming to take me. 621 00:31:38,812 --> 00:31:42,024 She was going to go and get my brother first in Palestine. 622 00:31:54,212 --> 00:31:57,708 My grandmother was going to Israel to get Daniel, 623 00:31:57,732 --> 00:32:00,268 who had left Greece after the war 624 00:32:00,292 --> 00:32:02,844 and had joined forces in Israel. 625 00:32:04,892 --> 00:32:06,668 He was in a kibbutz. 626 00:32:06,692 --> 00:32:07,828 And then, he went to the Haganah. 627 00:32:07,852 --> 00:32:09,457 He went to the army. 628 00:32:09,482 --> 00:32:11,148 Of course, he didn't like it there. 629 00:32:11,172 --> 00:32:12,788 He was miserable, miserable. 630 00:32:12,812 --> 00:32:16,308 My grandmother went to Israel, again bribed someone. 631 00:32:16,332 --> 00:32:19,348 There was always a bribe involved to bring him back, 632 00:32:19,372 --> 00:32:21,868 because once you join the army, you couldn't just leave. 633 00:32:21,892 --> 00:32:24,400 So, she had to do some negotiations. 634 00:32:27,252 --> 00:32:30,428 So, she got on a boat and she got him in, 635 00:32:30,452 --> 00:32:31,628 and she said to him, 636 00:32:31,652 --> 00:32:33,828 "Now, we're going to Athens. 637 00:32:33,852 --> 00:32:35,908 "You're going to stay in your cabin. 638 00:32:35,932 --> 00:32:38,828 You don't come out from the cabin." 639 00:32:38,852 --> 00:32:42,900 I had Dino stolen from Israel. 640 00:32:43,332 --> 00:32:44,948 So I said to Dino, "Stay in the cabin." 641 00:32:44,972 --> 00:32:46,788 So I got out of the boat. 642 00:32:46,812 --> 00:32:50,024 I went to Mama Yulia. Paulette was there. 643 00:32:50,332 --> 00:32:54,108 And the poor kids, I kissed them. 644 00:32:54,132 --> 00:32:57,188 And I say, "You want some money for a taxi to go home?" 645 00:32:57,212 --> 00:33:00,748 Because I have a big trunk... 646 00:33:00,772 --> 00:33:02,108 With two feet. 647 00:33:02,132 --> 00:33:03,908 With legs. 648 00:33:03,932 --> 00:33:08,024 "Let me get it out and I'll come home." 649 00:33:08,292 --> 00:33:10,268 And where is Dino? 650 00:33:10,292 --> 00:33:13,148 He's telling the man who's watching on the boat, 651 00:33:13,172 --> 00:33:19,388 "My mother brought me from Israel, and is going to take me to America." 652 00:33:19,412 --> 00:33:21,428 "You were on the boat?" "Yeah." 653 00:33:21,452 --> 00:33:23,948 They grabbed him to take him to Immigration! 654 00:33:23,972 --> 00:33:25,788 I go to Immigration and I say, 655 00:33:25,812 --> 00:33:28,788 "You come with me, we'll go to the mayor of Athens." 656 00:33:28,812 --> 00:33:31,268 So I took the two people there by car. 657 00:33:31,292 --> 00:33:33,948 My car with a chauffeur was waiting. 658 00:33:33,972 --> 00:33:37,188 And I go to Kotzias. 659 00:33:37,212 --> 00:33:39,368 "Oh, Chelly!" 660 00:33:40,252 --> 00:33:43,628 So I tell the story of what happened to Dino 661 00:33:43,652 --> 00:33:46,748 and the officers were crying. Everybody was crying. 662 00:33:46,772 --> 00:33:48,228 And that's it! Finished! 663 00:33:48,252 --> 00:33:51,468 In the meantime, Dino is already on the boat. 664 00:33:51,492 --> 00:33:53,062 I let him go! 665 00:33:53,087 --> 00:33:54,609 Goodbye, Dino! 666 00:33:54,831 --> 00:33:57,327 A friend of mine had a ship. 667 00:33:57,352 --> 00:34:00,179 It cost me $1,000 to put him downstairs. 668 00:34:02,256 --> 00:34:06,272 This is the day before I left to come to America. 669 00:34:06,297 --> 00:34:07,679 - This one? - Yes. 670 00:34:07,704 --> 00:34:09,527 - You see this dress? - Yeah. 671 00:34:09,552 --> 00:34:12,088 This dress was made out of a parachute. 672 00:34:12,113 --> 00:34:13,730 Wow. 673 00:34:15,342 --> 00:34:17,968 I was getting ready to go to America, 674 00:34:17,993 --> 00:34:20,249 and that was a big thing. 675 00:34:20,606 --> 00:34:23,062 And all my friends were, "Oh, my God. 676 00:34:23,148 --> 00:34:25,496 You're going to go to America? What are you going to do?" 677 00:34:25,683 --> 00:34:28,820 I used to say to them, "I'm going to be a movie star." 678 00:34:29,024 --> 00:34:32,226 My mother came, so she can arrange about the papers, 679 00:34:32,251 --> 00:34:34,667 the passports, when I'm going to leave, 680 00:34:34,692 --> 00:34:36,788 what ship am I going to be in. 681 00:34:37,355 --> 00:34:40,748 I was 12-and-a-half years old. I didn't speak English. 682 00:34:40,772 --> 00:34:42,988 But when I came to the United States, 683 00:34:43,012 --> 00:34:45,388 she didn't come with me; I came by myself. 684 00:34:46,812 --> 00:34:50,429 When I came on the ship, everybody, you know, 685 00:34:50,454 --> 00:34:53,042 we got up to see the Statue of Liberty. 686 00:34:54,517 --> 00:34:58,312 And I looked down and I see all these yellow cars, 687 00:34:58,910 --> 00:35:01,868 and I said, "Oh, in America, they have yellow cars." 688 00:35:01,892 --> 00:35:03,696 It was the taxis. 689 00:35:05,224 --> 00:35:07,714 Nobody explained anything to you. 690 00:35:08,165 --> 00:35:10,587 And poor Bondi was... They were telling her, 691 00:35:10,612 --> 00:35:12,428 "Paulette is coming. Paulette is coming." 692 00:35:12,452 --> 00:35:14,068 What did she know who Paulette was? 693 00:35:14,092 --> 00:35:15,828 And she was waiting for me to come. 694 00:35:15,852 --> 00:35:20,252 She was very young. Beautiful, beautiful child. 695 00:35:21,332 --> 00:35:23,468 The best day of my life was when Paulette came. 696 00:35:23,492 --> 00:35:27,788 I was only four, 697 00:35:27,812 --> 00:35:31,024 but I just loved her right away. 698 00:35:33,772 --> 00:35:35,748 I tried to teach Bondi to speak Greek. 699 00:35:35,772 --> 00:35:37,828 Paulette would teach me some Greek 700 00:35:37,852 --> 00:35:39,468 and I would teach her some English. 701 00:35:39,492 --> 00:35:40,908 We used to go... Eye, 702 00:35:40,932 --> 00:35:42,068 nose, 703 00:35:42,092 --> 00:35:43,268 mouth, 704 00:35:43,292 --> 00:35:44,308 hair. 705 00:35:44,332 --> 00:35:45,788 And I would say the English word. 706 00:35:45,812 --> 00:35:47,908 She would say the Greek word. 707 00:35:47,932 --> 00:35:49,188 She would talk to me constantly. 708 00:35:49,212 --> 00:35:50,748 I didn't know what she was saying. 709 00:35:50,772 --> 00:35:54,308 She was the most adorable child. 710 00:35:54,332 --> 00:35:55,948 But it was very difficult for me. 711 00:35:55,972 --> 00:35:57,348 I didn't want to be here. 712 00:35:57,372 --> 00:36:00,370 I never unpacked my bag for months. 713 00:36:00,395 --> 00:36:04,229 My mother, she understood where I came from 714 00:36:05,151 --> 00:36:08,676 and she wanted me 715 00:36:08,701 --> 00:36:12,169 to be here, to become 716 00:36:13,012 --> 00:36:14,428 American. 717 00:36:15,165 --> 00:36:16,747 She took two chairs, 718 00:36:16,772 --> 00:36:19,280 and she says to me, "This is..." 719 00:36:19,321 --> 00:36:22,301 "This is Greece and this is America." 720 00:36:23,124 --> 00:36:27,620 If you want to be in Greece, sit in this chair. 721 00:36:27,645 --> 00:36:30,701 If you want to be in America, sit in this one. 722 00:36:30,726 --> 00:36:32,907 "You can't sit in both chairs." 723 00:36:33,442 --> 00:36:38,168 "If you can make it five years, you'll never want to go back." 724 00:36:42,292 --> 00:36:44,028 - I love this picture. - Oh, this is the best. 725 00:36:44,052 --> 00:36:46,268 That picture is so wonderful. 726 00:36:46,292 --> 00:36:47,948 This is the best. This is classic. 727 00:36:47,972 --> 00:36:50,297 Her bathing suit didn't close up. She didn't care. 728 00:36:50,322 --> 00:36:51,738 Oh, my God. 729 00:36:52,852 --> 00:36:54,428 I don't think my mother 730 00:36:54,452 --> 00:36:57,294 ever went back to Thessaloniki, never. 731 00:36:57,326 --> 00:36:59,915 It only held bad memories for her, 732 00:36:59,940 --> 00:37:02,067 very bad memories, 733 00:37:03,972 --> 00:37:05,801 nothing but loss. 734 00:37:06,805 --> 00:37:08,657 Only 5% 735 00:37:08,682 --> 00:37:12,387 of the Jewish population survived. 736 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:17,508 To this day, I don't know what happened to my mother's mother. 737 00:37:19,602 --> 00:37:22,738 One of the last times I saw my mother at home, 738 00:37:23,052 --> 00:37:25,228 she looked very desolate, you know? 739 00:37:25,252 --> 00:37:27,428 And I said to her, "Mother, what's wrong?" 740 00:37:27,452 --> 00:37:28,748 She wouldn't tell me. 741 00:37:28,772 --> 00:37:30,268 I said, "Tell me. Maybe I can help you." 742 00:37:30,292 --> 00:37:34,348 Because she would always say she could help me 743 00:37:34,372 --> 00:37:37,700 or anybody with whatever problems that they would have. 744 00:37:37,725 --> 00:37:39,348 And, um... 745 00:37:40,895 --> 00:37:42,351 And she said... 746 00:37:42,376 --> 00:37:44,711 "I want to see my sister." 747 00:37:48,479 --> 00:37:51,292 This was so many years later. 748 00:37:52,347 --> 00:37:55,913 And I said, "No, you're right. I can't help you." 749 00:37:56,695 --> 00:38:00,116 So, then she said, she went, 750 00:38:00,141 --> 00:38:04,921 "Hmm. Can you bring me a Nazi, so I can shoot him?" 751 00:38:07,267 --> 00:38:10,147 My sister has said that there was a time 752 00:38:10,172 --> 00:38:13,268 when you could get reparations, but my mother didn't want it 753 00:38:13,292 --> 00:38:14,788 because she said it was blood money. 754 00:38:14,812 --> 00:38:17,308 She didn't want it because she had paid too dear 755 00:38:17,332 --> 00:38:21,068 for that money, and she wouldn't take it. 756 00:38:21,092 --> 00:38:24,628 I think my mother did have 757 00:38:24,652 --> 00:38:27,308 survivor's guilt. 758 00:38:27,332 --> 00:38:30,868 This picture, I have to know who these people are. 759 00:38:30,892 --> 00:38:32,988 I'm never going to find out, am I? 760 00:38:33,012 --> 00:38:34,948 I have no idea, Bondi. 761 00:38:34,972 --> 00:38:37,988 I wonder if I showed pictures to everybody in Salonika, 762 00:38:38,012 --> 00:38:40,028 if somebody might remember somebody. 763 00:38:40,052 --> 00:38:41,668 They're all dead, Bondi. 764 00:38:41,692 --> 00:38:43,760 I know. 765 00:38:48,172 --> 00:38:50,508 My mother's aunt Allegra 766 00:38:50,532 --> 00:38:55,188 left Salonika in 1932 to go to France. 767 00:38:55,266 --> 00:38:56,828 At the end of the war, 768 00:38:56,852 --> 00:39:00,988 my mother heard from Allegra that she had survived. 769 00:39:01,539 --> 00:39:05,788 And the letter that my mother responded with 770 00:39:05,812 --> 00:39:09,100 was found in Allegra's papers. 771 00:39:09,125 --> 00:39:13,348 It is written in Ladino. Judeo-Spanish. 772 00:39:14,111 --> 00:39:16,498 "My dearest Allegra. 773 00:39:17,132 --> 00:39:19,908 "Oh, Allegra, just seeing your name on the envelope 774 00:39:19,932 --> 00:39:21,868 "made my heart skip a beat. 775 00:39:21,892 --> 00:39:24,148 "Adding one more person to the list of survivors 776 00:39:24,172 --> 00:39:26,388 "fills my heart with joy. 777 00:39:26,992 --> 00:39:30,188 "I can't even begin to describe the anguish I suffered 778 00:39:30,212 --> 00:39:32,664 "thinking of each and every one of you. 779 00:39:33,772 --> 00:39:36,468 "I spent entire nights without sleeping 780 00:39:36,492 --> 00:39:37,898 "and days without eating. 781 00:39:38,652 --> 00:39:41,828 "I can assure you that if it wasn't for my husband, 782 00:39:41,852 --> 00:39:46,520 whom I love dearly, I would've ended up in an insane asylum." 783 00:39:57,092 --> 00:40:00,974 My mother always used the expression "God bless America." 784 00:40:01,067 --> 00:40:03,698 She truly felt it. 785 00:40:04,364 --> 00:40:06,387 She really did love this country, 786 00:40:06,412 --> 00:40:09,800 and she loved, I guess, the freedom that she had here. 787 00:40:13,532 --> 00:40:16,548 And there were always strangers living with us 788 00:40:16,572 --> 00:40:18,428 that she would pick up from I don't know where. 789 00:40:18,452 --> 00:40:20,348 But I remember waking up 790 00:40:20,372 --> 00:40:23,108 and walking over people sleeping in the dining room 791 00:40:23,132 --> 00:40:27,228 and under the table, over, on top of the table, 792 00:40:27,252 --> 00:40:30,468 that she would just pick up that jumped boat 793 00:40:30,492 --> 00:40:32,108 and wanted to stay here, 794 00:40:32,132 --> 00:40:34,188 and she was going to help them get their papers, 795 00:40:34,212 --> 00:40:36,108 and she did. 796 00:40:36,132 --> 00:40:39,068 Her main thing was to support the Greek people. 797 00:40:39,092 --> 00:40:43,028 She played Greek films on weekends. 798 00:40:43,052 --> 00:40:46,788 She had all the people in Astoria and Queens, 799 00:40:46,812 --> 00:40:49,748 they would come in and see the films booked into the Cameo. 800 00:40:49,772 --> 00:40:53,380 They also played at the Tivoli. 801 00:40:55,172 --> 00:40:57,788 For us, back then, to work on Sunday was a sin. 802 00:40:57,812 --> 00:41:00,748 Like, you know, we just had the Greek mentality. 803 00:41:00,772 --> 00:41:02,346 You never work on Sunday. 804 00:41:02,438 --> 00:41:04,565 And we used to go to the movies, 805 00:41:05,489 --> 00:41:08,535 but she would bring all these nice films. 806 00:41:11,363 --> 00:41:13,477 She certainly knew who was doing what 807 00:41:13,502 --> 00:41:15,749 and who had the assets, and all of 808 00:41:15,774 --> 00:41:18,243 the big Greek producers and distributors knew her 809 00:41:18,268 --> 00:41:20,395 and they would ship films to her. 810 00:41:20,420 --> 00:41:23,790 All the good names, she was on it. 811 00:41:28,652 --> 00:41:31,160 And always a comedy and a sad. 812 00:41:41,132 --> 00:41:44,168 It wasn't making a whole lot of money. 813 00:41:46,252 --> 00:41:48,308 A few people had suggested, "Chelly, why don't you try 814 00:41:48,332 --> 00:41:51,108 these other films?" 815 00:41:51,132 --> 00:41:55,068 So, she got a few films and, all of a sudden, 816 00:41:55,092 --> 00:41:57,380 the money came rolling in. "This is good!" 817 00:42:01,864 --> 00:42:04,268 A lot of theaters were driven into having a product 818 00:42:04,292 --> 00:42:07,268 that they could buy reasonably, if not cheap, 819 00:42:07,292 --> 00:42:10,348 and get people to see, which was a very good audience. 820 00:42:10,372 --> 00:42:12,028 You didn't need a lot of matrons. 821 00:42:12,052 --> 00:42:14,508 They didn't go to eat candy and popcorn and stuff. 822 00:42:14,532 --> 00:42:16,188 So, you had a very good audience 823 00:42:16,212 --> 00:42:19,388 who paid a higher price than the general ticket admission. 824 00:42:19,412 --> 00:42:22,628 She was very good at recognizing opportunities 825 00:42:22,652 --> 00:42:23,840 and taking advantage of them. 826 00:42:26,292 --> 00:42:28,316 Oh! 827 00:42:32,452 --> 00:42:35,532 Chelly was the first person we ever sold a movie to. 828 00:42:36,692 --> 00:42:39,908 It was the summer of 1965. 829 00:42:39,932 --> 00:42:41,908 I was selling a movie that I had invested in. 830 00:42:41,932 --> 00:42:44,348 The title was Flesh and Lace, 831 00:42:44,372 --> 00:42:46,668 which, in those days, was an adult film, 832 00:42:46,692 --> 00:42:50,668 which today could play regular TV in the afternoon. 833 00:42:50,692 --> 00:42:52,068 Who is she? 834 00:42:52,092 --> 00:42:54,148 Beverly Hill, my roommate. 835 00:42:54,172 --> 00:42:56,388 It had one flash scene of a naked woman 836 00:42:56,412 --> 00:42:58,708 on a bed on her stomach, 837 00:42:58,732 --> 00:43:02,788 and another scene of a nightclub with a girl dancing. 838 00:43:02,812 --> 00:43:04,188 It was just a nice story. 839 00:43:04,212 --> 00:43:06,468 Get out of here. 840 00:43:06,492 --> 00:43:08,348 Joanie, please. 841 00:43:08,372 --> 00:43:11,496 I said, get out of my sight! 842 00:43:14,252 --> 00:43:17,468 We needed to play it in New York and Chelly had a theater. 843 00:43:17,492 --> 00:43:20,028 We made an arrangement with Chelly, 844 00:43:20,052 --> 00:43:23,108 where the first $4,500 of receipts would go to Chelly, 845 00:43:23,132 --> 00:43:26,988 and then, there was $600 advertising expense, 846 00:43:27,012 --> 00:43:30,148 and that would be taken off the top before the $4,500. 847 00:43:30,172 --> 00:43:32,988 And then, we were to get 90% of everything above that 848 00:43:33,012 --> 00:43:34,628 and she would get 10% above that. 849 00:43:34,652 --> 00:43:39,028 Well, about two weeks before the play date, she said, 850 00:43:39,052 --> 00:43:42,948 "We need to raise the advertising $400 more." 851 00:43:42,972 --> 00:43:45,388 And then, we got another call a week before to raise it. 852 00:43:45,412 --> 00:43:48,748 It wound up being $6,000 before we got any money. 853 00:43:48,772 --> 00:43:51,828 What we didn't know because we didn't have her experience was, 854 00:43:51,852 --> 00:43:54,868 we were not just allowing her to take the first $4,500 855 00:43:54,892 --> 00:43:58,508 or the first $6,000; we were guaranteeing it. 856 00:43:58,532 --> 00:44:01,908 And then, we found out before the movie opened 857 00:44:01,932 --> 00:44:04,628 that the theater never did $6,000, 858 00:44:04,652 --> 00:44:06,468 which would be a very typical Chelly kind of deal. 859 00:44:06,492 --> 00:44:08,428 But as luck would have it, 860 00:44:08,452 --> 00:44:11,308 in the first week, the film did $10,000, 861 00:44:11,332 --> 00:44:14,348 which was quite an accomplishment. 862 00:44:14,372 --> 00:44:16,988 We broke the theater house record, 863 00:44:17,012 --> 00:44:19,908 and people were coming over and patting us on the back. 864 00:44:19,932 --> 00:44:21,468 It was good for her, too, 865 00:44:21,492 --> 00:44:24,628 because it established a new paradigm for her theater. 866 00:44:24,652 --> 00:44:26,668 That was indecent. 867 00:44:26,692 --> 00:44:30,308 Honey, that's what I am. Indecent. 868 00:44:30,771 --> 00:44:32,894 And that's what I've always been. 869 00:44:40,852 --> 00:44:44,028 You have to understand, in 1965, 870 00:44:44,052 --> 00:44:45,812 the mores of America were changing. 871 00:44:49,452 --> 00:44:51,228 Obviously, there was a demand, 872 00:44:51,252 --> 00:44:52,908 because if there wasn't a demand, 873 00:44:52,932 --> 00:44:55,468 it would not have been successful, 874 00:44:55,492 --> 00:44:58,548 and it was extremely successful, so... 875 00:44:58,572 --> 00:45:01,548 It was a forbidden fruit for many years, 876 00:45:01,572 --> 00:45:05,468 and now it was available, and people wanted to see it. 877 00:45:05,492 --> 00:45:07,948 She made a lot of money, 878 00:45:07,972 --> 00:45:11,148 and she had very many people working for her 879 00:45:11,172 --> 00:45:14,588 who stayed in the apartment and they took care of her. 880 00:45:14,612 --> 00:45:16,268 Plus they were cooks. 881 00:45:16,292 --> 00:45:18,868 You know, they would clean the apartment, all women. 882 00:45:18,892 --> 00:45:21,068 One of them, as I recall, was Machi, 883 00:45:21,092 --> 00:45:25,748 and she would come up with shopping bags full of cash. 884 00:45:25,772 --> 00:45:27,988 Shopping bags. 885 00:45:28,012 --> 00:45:32,748 As the future came upon us, Chelly purchased theaters. 886 00:45:33,151 --> 00:45:35,068 I know one of them, on Eighth Avenue, 887 00:45:35,092 --> 00:45:37,793 was the Eros, and then the Venus. 888 00:45:37,818 --> 00:45:40,655 She named her theaters after Greek gods, okay? 889 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,424 It was about making money, honey. Making money. 890 00:45:43,449 --> 00:45:47,827 She used to have Friday night poker games at her apartment. 891 00:45:47,852 --> 00:45:49,588 So, you go into this, like, 892 00:45:49,613 --> 00:45:52,656 seedy theater lobby on Eighth Avenue, 893 00:45:52,852 --> 00:45:56,588 and you go in, very steep stairway that you had to go up. 894 00:45:56,612 --> 00:45:59,308 And the place is locked like a fortress, 895 00:45:59,332 --> 00:46:01,788 like a steel door with a thousand locks on it. 896 00:46:01,812 --> 00:46:06,548 And then, we get in and it's, like, this hugely ornate, 897 00:46:06,572 --> 00:46:08,828 amazing apartment. 898 00:46:08,852 --> 00:46:10,828 There was a round table 899 00:46:10,852 --> 00:46:13,268 and there would be little tables, 900 00:46:13,292 --> 00:46:15,788 so you could put your drink, your coffee, your ashtray. 901 00:46:15,812 --> 00:46:17,668 Back then, everybody would smoke. 902 00:46:17,692 --> 00:46:19,388 And she had the whole, 903 00:46:19,412 --> 00:46:22,268 like, little crew of all the cool people. 904 00:46:22,292 --> 00:46:25,068 Jamie Gillis was there, 905 00:46:25,092 --> 00:46:27,708 Mickey Zaffarano, 906 00:46:27,732 --> 00:46:29,908 and Herb Nitke, 907 00:46:29,932 --> 00:46:32,188 and they would literally play poker all night long. 908 00:46:32,212 --> 00:46:33,908 There would be money all over the place. 909 00:46:33,932 --> 00:46:36,348 20s, 50s, 100s. 910 00:46:36,372 --> 00:46:38,868 Those games would... You know, very high stakes 911 00:46:38,892 --> 00:46:42,428 and they would go on sometimes for days. 912 00:46:42,452 --> 00:46:44,508 I'm sure a lot of business went down. 913 00:46:44,532 --> 00:46:47,388 And, yeah, if Mickey was there, he would pop in, I'm sure, 914 00:46:47,412 --> 00:46:48,927 to do a little business. 915 00:46:48,952 --> 00:46:51,888 Some of the stories I've heard, she was involved with the Mafia. 916 00:46:51,913 --> 00:46:55,347 I think you had to be to be part of the pornography industry 917 00:46:55,372 --> 00:46:57,548 in the '60s and '70s. 918 00:46:57,614 --> 00:46:58,824 Yeah. 919 00:47:00,844 --> 00:47:01,908 Yes. 920 00:47:01,932 --> 00:47:03,034 They protected us. 921 00:47:03,059 --> 00:47:06,900 At the poker games, she was almost always the only woman, 922 00:47:07,109 --> 00:47:09,864 and she sat at the head of the table, always. 923 00:47:09,940 --> 00:47:13,333 The fact that Chelly was able to hold her own 924 00:47:13,358 --> 00:47:15,894 in that world of all those guys 925 00:47:15,919 --> 00:47:18,147 who are all sharks in one way or another, 926 00:47:18,172 --> 00:47:20,028 is beyond commendable. 927 00:47:20,052 --> 00:47:21,708 I mean, what a woman. 928 00:47:21,732 --> 00:47:23,428 It was all about the fun of the deal. 929 00:47:23,452 --> 00:47:25,520 It was all about the fun of gambling. 930 00:47:27,631 --> 00:47:29,667 The one thing I learned about gamblers, 931 00:47:29,692 --> 00:47:31,679 having spent a lot of time with them, 932 00:47:31,704 --> 00:47:33,280 they don't actually care about winning. 933 00:47:33,305 --> 00:47:35,761 I mean, they care about winning in the moment, 934 00:47:35,786 --> 00:47:38,610 but they mostly just want to keep gambling. 935 00:47:38,635 --> 00:47:42,187 She loved people who knew how to talk, and get things done, 936 00:47:42,212 --> 00:47:44,868 and sneak behind things, and go around things, 937 00:47:44,892 --> 00:47:48,308 and she just adored people like that. 938 00:47:48,332 --> 00:47:51,068 And unfortunately, she got involved with a few of them 939 00:47:51,092 --> 00:47:53,908 and got taken a bit from time to time, 940 00:47:53,932 --> 00:47:55,468 because they were good at it. 941 00:47:55,492 --> 00:47:57,508 It was a lot of bar booth places. 942 00:47:57,532 --> 00:48:00,148 "Bar booth" means the place to play dice. 943 00:48:00,172 --> 00:48:03,908 She would start going over there very often, 944 00:48:03,932 --> 00:48:05,948 and she lost a lot of money, I believe. 945 00:48:05,972 --> 00:48:08,744 I heard from my boss, Petrópolis... 946 00:48:09,212 --> 00:48:11,588 "They fleeced her yesterday." 947 00:48:12,132 --> 00:48:13,548 "We took a couple hundred thousand dollars 948 00:48:13,572 --> 00:48:15,588 or maybe more, maybe more." 949 00:48:15,612 --> 00:48:18,828 But she wouldn't give up because whatever she lost, in one week, 950 00:48:18,852 --> 00:48:20,788 she would get it back. 951 00:48:20,812 --> 00:48:24,348 Not from the gambling, but from the business she had. 952 00:48:24,372 --> 00:48:27,628 No matter how much she lose, everything would come back. 953 00:48:32,892 --> 00:48:36,348 The porn industry focused on 42nd Street 954 00:48:36,372 --> 00:48:37,828 because that's where the theaters were. 955 00:48:37,852 --> 00:48:39,948 These big theaters, huge theaters, 956 00:48:39,972 --> 00:48:43,308 many of them not having enough business. 957 00:48:43,332 --> 00:48:45,868 And so, they would eventually move to porn, 958 00:48:45,892 --> 00:48:47,566 which was the most lucrative. 959 00:48:47,694 --> 00:48:48,988 In the early days, 960 00:48:49,012 --> 00:48:52,108 because there was no real porn industry producing films 961 00:48:52,132 --> 00:48:56,619 on a regular basis, the theaters ended up producing porn as well. 962 00:49:00,892 --> 00:49:04,508 My mother and her partner then, who was Lee Pomeranz, 963 00:49:04,532 --> 00:49:06,512 formed Chellee Films. 964 00:49:09,092 --> 00:49:12,548 She probably thought about, well, I'll make films. 965 00:49:12,572 --> 00:49:14,708 I have a theater to play them. And that, you know, 966 00:49:14,732 --> 00:49:17,548 she thought this would be a good business venture. 967 00:49:17,572 --> 00:49:20,298 This is the story of a silk-stocking industry. 968 00:49:20,323 --> 00:49:23,219 An industry of perversion. 969 00:49:23,861 --> 00:49:25,773 Scarf of Mist, 970 00:49:25,798 --> 00:49:29,107 Thigh of Satin is different. 971 00:49:29,209 --> 00:49:32,265 And then, ultimately, she distributed them as well. 972 00:49:32,290 --> 00:49:35,106 So, it was, you know, like they did in Hollywood, 973 00:49:35,131 --> 00:49:38,227 before it was broken up, where you own the theater, 974 00:49:38,252 --> 00:49:40,588 you produced the film, and you distributed the film. 975 00:49:40,612 --> 00:49:42,068 We made a few films 976 00:49:42,092 --> 00:49:45,480 for them when I wasn't married to Bondi. 977 00:49:49,692 --> 00:49:51,388 The way I got into the business 978 00:49:51,412 --> 00:49:53,788 was a film called Scare Their Pants Off. 979 00:49:53,812 --> 00:49:55,908 On weekends, 980 00:49:55,932 --> 00:49:58,880 for three weekends, we made Scare Their Pants Off. 981 00:50:01,052 --> 00:50:04,836 A film with a little nudity, but some horror also. 982 00:50:07,572 --> 00:50:10,548 It was a lot like off-off-Broadway theater. 983 00:50:10,572 --> 00:50:13,428 Please don't hurt me. I keep telling you. 984 00:50:13,452 --> 00:50:16,068 I know what you keep telling you me! 985 00:50:16,092 --> 00:50:19,548 You keep telling me we got the wrong girl 986 00:50:19,572 --> 00:50:22,608 and that damn silly nonsense! 987 00:50:25,452 --> 00:50:27,628 Everybody sort of hoop-skipping along 988 00:50:27,652 --> 00:50:29,808 and having a good time and making these films. 989 00:50:32,732 --> 00:50:35,028 They didn't pay an awful lot. 990 00:50:35,052 --> 00:50:37,548 But if you made enough of them, you made a living, 991 00:50:37,572 --> 00:50:39,148 and there were some good people in it. 992 00:50:39,172 --> 00:50:40,748 Are we all set up for that party? 993 00:50:40,772 --> 00:50:43,388 Party? Since when did you all get so civilized? 994 00:50:43,412 --> 00:50:44,805 You mean orgy. 995 00:50:44,830 --> 00:50:48,399 You had to have actors, so you couldn't show sex. 996 00:50:48,424 --> 00:50:51,107 So, you had to have people who could act like 997 00:50:51,132 --> 00:50:53,388 the sex was taking place and real. 998 00:50:53,412 --> 00:50:55,571 And so, it meant acting. 999 00:50:57,551 --> 00:50:59,664 It was fairly easy to cast. 1000 00:51:00,470 --> 00:51:02,427 What usually happened is 1001 00:51:02,452 --> 00:51:05,839 there were people who were around as models. 1002 00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:07,834 Musicians, 1003 00:51:08,325 --> 00:51:11,863 actors, various kinds of entertainers 1004 00:51:11,888 --> 00:51:13,664 who were not doing well, 1005 00:51:13,689 --> 00:51:15,626 and so, they would do porn for a little extra money. 1006 00:51:15,650 --> 00:51:18,643 What I want now is some of your ass, all right? 1007 00:51:18,668 --> 00:51:20,339 You're always after my ass. 1008 00:51:21,630 --> 00:51:24,434 I want to fill up 40 feet of screen with your ass. 1009 00:51:25,508 --> 00:51:26,697 In the early days, 1010 00:51:26,722 --> 00:51:28,708 the nudity wasn't really highly important, 1011 00:51:28,732 --> 00:51:30,748 and it was just basically topless if it was. 1012 00:51:30,772 --> 00:51:32,560 But later on, it changed a lot. 1013 00:51:32,585 --> 00:51:34,361 It's an industry that grew hair by hair, 1014 00:51:34,386 --> 00:51:35,842 one pubic hair at a time. 1015 00:51:35,881 --> 00:51:38,227 The public wanted as much as they could see. 1016 00:51:38,252 --> 00:51:40,548 Every film had a little more than the last film. 1017 00:51:40,572 --> 00:51:41,708 Baby... 1018 00:51:41,732 --> 00:51:42,748 You don't give yourself credit. 1019 00:51:42,772 --> 00:51:44,108 Baby, you're going overboard. 1020 00:51:44,132 --> 00:51:45,428 What do you think I want you to do? 1021 00:51:45,452 --> 00:51:46,682 Sleep with the guy? 1022 00:51:47,492 --> 00:51:49,268 Oh, wow. 1023 00:51:49,292 --> 00:51:50,708 Honey, you're crazy. 1024 00:51:50,732 --> 00:51:53,428 Softcore porn evolved. 1025 00:51:53,452 --> 00:51:56,588 So at first, you had what they called beaver, 1026 00:51:56,612 --> 00:51:59,028 which was just a female crotch. 1027 00:51:59,052 --> 00:52:00,988 And then, they moved to pickle and beaver, 1028 00:52:01,012 --> 00:52:03,468 which was a penis and female crotch. 1029 00:52:03,492 --> 00:52:04,868 And so, eventually, hardcore emerged. 1030 00:52:04,892 --> 00:52:08,708 And so, you had penetration. 1031 00:52:08,732 --> 00:52:12,148 The industry exploded until there was nothing left to see. 1032 00:52:12,172 --> 00:52:15,828 Hardcore pornography really emerged in 1969, 1033 00:52:15,852 --> 00:52:17,472 almost, like, on the dot. 1034 00:52:18,892 --> 00:52:21,508 I've never seen a film like this before. 1035 00:52:21,532 --> 00:52:23,248 Oh, it's different, all right. 1036 00:52:27,532 --> 00:52:30,628 Chellee was soft core. Then after that, 1037 00:52:30,652 --> 00:52:32,708 it led to Variety Films, 1038 00:52:32,732 --> 00:52:36,308 and Variety Films was Chelly and Bondi. 1039 00:52:36,332 --> 00:52:38,108 I didn't have much to do with the productions. 1040 00:52:38,132 --> 00:52:39,868 I just did the distribution. 1041 00:52:39,892 --> 00:52:42,576 Variety was mostly hardcore. 1042 00:52:46,452 --> 00:52:48,348 You know, as I got older and was a teenager, 1043 00:52:48,372 --> 00:52:51,268 I knew what pornography was. It was conflicting. 1044 00:52:51,292 --> 00:52:52,748 Pornography is a lie about women! 1045 00:52:52,772 --> 00:52:54,188 Why? 1046 00:52:54,212 --> 00:52:56,468 Pornography lies about women! 1047 00:52:56,492 --> 00:52:58,988 I thought of Grandma Chelly as a feminist 1048 00:52:59,012 --> 00:53:00,868 earlier in her life. 1049 00:53:00,892 --> 00:53:02,508 The pictures and the information 1050 00:53:02,532 --> 00:53:03,828 that I knew about her living in Greece, 1051 00:53:03,852 --> 00:53:05,868 owning a business, 1052 00:53:05,892 --> 00:53:07,308 smoking cigarettes, wearing pants, 1053 00:53:07,332 --> 00:53:08,748 having short hair, 1054 00:53:08,772 --> 00:53:11,788 lent itself to the sort of Simone de Beauvoir, 1055 00:53:11,812 --> 00:53:13,628 you know, idea of a feminist. 1056 00:53:13,652 --> 00:53:15,828 Then, when I went to college, you know, 1057 00:53:15,852 --> 00:53:18,108 and I'm studying feminism, 1058 00:53:18,132 --> 00:53:22,028 and pornography is the antithesis of feminism. 1059 00:53:22,052 --> 00:53:24,748 So, I thought of her as perpetuating 1060 00:53:24,772 --> 00:53:29,388 a very destructive view of men and women's bodies. 1061 00:53:29,412 --> 00:53:31,468 She never had any compunctions about any of that. 1062 00:53:31,492 --> 00:53:33,948 Couldn't care less about the content. 1063 00:53:33,972 --> 00:53:35,508 My mother would never apologize 1064 00:53:35,532 --> 00:53:38,028 for who she was or what she did 1065 00:53:38,052 --> 00:53:40,275 ever, ever, ever, 1066 00:53:40,300 --> 00:53:42,199 even though she grew up in a culture 1067 00:53:42,224 --> 00:53:46,135 where everything that she was about was wrong. 1068 00:53:46,502 --> 00:53:47,998 Do you have a lot of friends? 1069 00:53:48,172 --> 00:53:49,828 No, I-I hate men. 1070 00:53:50,118 --> 00:53:51,228 What? 1071 00:53:51,253 --> 00:53:53,163 I can't stand when a man touch me. 1072 00:53:53,258 --> 00:53:55,751 I knew she was gay. Nobody ever said to me, 1073 00:53:55,776 --> 00:53:57,296 "Your grandmother's gay." 1074 00:54:00,399 --> 00:54:04,089 Or, "If she's gay, why is she married to Rex Wilson?" 1075 00:54:04,114 --> 00:54:08,292 I mean, it was just assumed that this was her lifestyle, 1076 00:54:08,431 --> 00:54:10,139 this is who she was. 1077 00:54:12,612 --> 00:54:14,636 Happy Pride Day, y'all! 1078 00:54:21,430 --> 00:54:23,907 Today, you would say she was completely out, 1079 00:54:23,932 --> 00:54:25,348 proud of who she is. 1080 00:54:25,372 --> 00:54:27,508 She'd never pretended to be anybody other. 1081 00:54:27,532 --> 00:54:29,348 But when we were growing up, 1082 00:54:29,372 --> 00:54:32,948 you didn't talk as openly about who's gay, who's not gay. 1083 00:54:32,972 --> 00:54:34,776 You know, she had many gay male friends. 1084 00:54:37,412 --> 00:54:38,668 The first time 1085 00:54:38,692 --> 00:54:40,548 that anybody ever said anything to me, 1086 00:54:40,572 --> 00:54:42,668 it was at a funeral. 1087 00:54:42,692 --> 00:54:45,188 A friend of mine was next to me and she looks over 1088 00:54:45,212 --> 00:54:48,868 and she says to me, "I didn't know your mother was gay." 1089 00:54:48,892 --> 00:54:51,308 And I said, "Hmm." 1090 00:54:51,332 --> 00:54:53,268 I guess I didn't know either, 1091 00:54:53,292 --> 00:54:55,828 or I didn't know that everybody knew and I didn't know. 1092 00:54:55,852 --> 00:54:58,508 But I wasn't even really aware of it 1093 00:54:58,532 --> 00:55:00,988 or I just didn't want to see it, because 1094 00:55:01,012 --> 00:55:03,028 in those years that I grew up, 1095 00:55:03,052 --> 00:55:07,276 it was not something that you accepted so easily. 1096 00:55:10,172 --> 00:55:11,388 Hi, ma! 1097 00:55:11,412 --> 00:55:12,508 Today, it's like, whatever. 1098 00:55:12,532 --> 00:55:14,188 The sky is blue. You're gay. 1099 00:55:14,212 --> 00:55:16,148 It's, like, no big deal. 1100 00:55:18,252 --> 00:55:22,388 Noni and Eva did live with us. 1101 00:55:22,412 --> 00:55:27,028 This was her other family. 1102 00:55:27,052 --> 00:55:29,828 Eva was the opera singer from Greece. 1103 00:55:29,852 --> 00:55:33,508 Machi and Angela were friends 1104 00:55:33,532 --> 00:55:35,584 who came to live with her at various times. 1105 00:55:35,609 --> 00:55:37,105 They were all gay. 1106 00:55:37,612 --> 00:55:39,868 They would clean, they would cook, 1107 00:55:39,892 --> 00:55:41,788 and they were always there. 1108 00:55:41,812 --> 00:55:44,100 - Hi, Angela. - Hi, honey. 1109 00:55:47,012 --> 00:55:50,428 Rexy, she definitely had a very interesting 1110 00:55:50,452 --> 00:55:54,908 and loving relationship with for a very long time. 1111 00:55:54,932 --> 00:55:58,068 Even when she started living with Eva and Noni, 1112 00:55:58,092 --> 00:56:01,188 Rexy was still there and he was still a part of the family, 1113 00:56:01,212 --> 00:56:02,748 as long as he wanted to be. 1114 00:56:02,772 --> 00:56:05,148 Eventually, he felt dispossessed 1115 00:56:05,172 --> 00:56:09,548 and moved himself to Puerto Rico. 1116 00:56:09,572 --> 00:56:11,828 But when he came back, he was always welcomed. 1117 00:56:11,852 --> 00:56:13,988 He was always taken care of. 1118 00:56:14,012 --> 00:56:17,364 He was going blind, and she took care of him. 1119 00:56:18,372 --> 00:56:21,628 Her first husband Moise became a friend of hers, 1120 00:56:21,652 --> 00:56:24,788 and they would write letters back and forth in French. 1121 00:56:24,812 --> 00:56:27,948 I think she lived for the family, 1122 00:56:27,972 --> 00:56:32,592 and that included the extended family. 1123 00:56:36,972 --> 00:56:38,668 At the time... 1124 00:56:38,692 --> 00:56:41,228 It was late '60s, I believe. Yes, late '60s. 1125 00:56:41,252 --> 00:56:45,108 And Chelly Wilson decided to open up a Greek restaurant. 1126 00:56:45,132 --> 00:56:47,908 She opened up the place called Mykonos, 1127 00:56:47,932 --> 00:56:51,348 and she had the right person to run the place, 1128 00:56:51,372 --> 00:56:52,868 Noni Kanjaraki. 1129 00:56:58,932 --> 00:57:02,628 She would have her lover, Noni, singing there, 1130 00:57:02,652 --> 00:57:04,828 who was a sort of opera singer. 1131 00:57:04,852 --> 00:57:07,428 Gravelly, six packs of cigarettes a day kind of singer. 1132 00:57:07,452 --> 00:57:08,640 Very nice voice. 1133 00:57:15,713 --> 00:57:18,227 So, it was strange going to the house and seeing Noni 1134 00:57:18,252 --> 00:57:19,891 in a sort of, like, nightgown, 1135 00:57:19,916 --> 00:57:22,171 walking around with her cigarettes and so forth. 1136 00:57:22,196 --> 00:57:24,573 And then, like, at that night, she would be in this restaurant, 1137 00:57:24,597 --> 00:57:26,147 singing and be all glamored up 1138 00:57:26,172 --> 00:57:28,545 in this sort of kitsch sequin thing. 1139 00:57:29,215 --> 00:57:30,631 The Mykonos opened 1140 00:57:30,656 --> 00:57:33,588 basically for Noni to have a place to sing, 1141 00:57:33,613 --> 00:57:35,095 and for them to have a place of their own. 1142 00:57:35,119 --> 00:57:37,850 It was going to be, like, a little boîte in the beginning, 1143 00:57:37,875 --> 00:57:41,455 and then, it ended up being a full-blown restaurant. 1144 00:57:41,972 --> 00:57:46,122 THEW GREEKS HAVE A WORD FOR FUN-DINING 1145 00:57:59,551 --> 00:58:01,028 It was very lively. 1146 00:58:01,052 --> 00:58:03,433 My sister worked there as a hostess. 1147 00:58:03,458 --> 00:58:06,757 That was the place to be 1148 00:58:06,852 --> 00:58:10,495 and the place to stay till 4:00 in the morning. 1149 00:58:13,174 --> 00:58:14,158 STANDING ROOM ONLY RESTAURANT 1150 00:58:14,182 --> 00:58:16,796 MYKONOS (N.Y.) IS GREECE TRANSPLANTED TO NEW WORLD 1151 00:58:18,722 --> 00:58:22,131 ACCORDING TO MRS. CHELLY WILSON, NOBODY EVER WANTS TO LEAVE MYKONOS! 1152 00:58:26,692 --> 00:58:30,148 The food was fabulous. 1153 00:58:30,173 --> 00:58:34,110 Vassilis Photopoulos did the design of the restaurant. 1154 00:58:34,135 --> 00:58:36,187 Beautiful murals. 1155 00:58:36,834 --> 00:58:40,107 Vassilis had won the Academy Award for Zorba the Greek 1156 00:58:40,132 --> 00:58:41,564 for the Art Direction. 1157 00:58:41,589 --> 00:58:43,005 Handsome, handsome guy. 1158 00:58:43,030 --> 00:58:46,201 Bondi used to be... Oh, she loved him. 1159 00:58:46,783 --> 00:58:50,872 I met a lot of Greek stars and American stars. 1160 00:58:50,897 --> 00:58:52,233 Yul Brynner. 1161 00:58:52,258 --> 00:58:54,114 Jackie with Onassis came. 1162 00:58:54,412 --> 00:58:56,028 Shirley MacLaine. 1163 00:58:56,052 --> 00:58:57,148 Bobby Kennedy. 1164 00:58:57,172 --> 00:58:58,268 Rod Steiger. 1165 00:58:58,292 --> 00:58:59,988 Everybody went to Mykonos. 1166 00:59:00,012 --> 00:59:03,228 She did the smartest thing. She brought in a pelican. 1167 00:59:03,252 --> 00:59:04,468 Yes, she did. 1168 00:59:04,492 --> 00:59:06,428 She brought the mayor, with the pelican 1169 00:59:06,452 --> 00:59:08,828 from the island of Mykonos. 1170 00:59:10,222 --> 00:59:12,436 PETER PELICAN'S BEAK IS FULL OF GOOD WILL 1171 00:59:12,461 --> 00:59:14,929 Over there, the pelican is considered to be 1172 00:59:14,954 --> 00:59:16,930 a bird of peace. 1173 00:59:16,955 --> 00:59:22,067 And he is here as a peace... As a symbol of peace to the world. 1174 00:59:22,092 --> 00:59:25,140 And everybody came to see the pelican. 1175 00:59:25,165 --> 00:59:28,433 It was lined out the door to come have dinner, 1176 00:59:29,074 --> 00:59:32,348 and this was constant for about a year or two, like, nonstop. 1177 00:59:32,372 --> 00:59:36,097 You would see only limousines outside just to see 1178 00:59:36,122 --> 00:59:37,938 the pelican. 1179 00:59:37,963 --> 00:59:40,429 It was a very fun place to go. 1180 00:59:43,128 --> 00:59:45,944 And then, we had Bondi's wedding there, 1181 00:59:45,969 --> 00:59:48,886 which was beautiful. 1182 01:00:01,883 --> 01:00:04,883 The place was full of flowers. 1183 01:00:05,217 --> 01:00:08,997 My mother had built a floral... 1184 01:00:09,022 --> 01:00:10,787 It was almost like a huppah 1185 01:00:10,812 --> 01:00:14,360 that a Jewish couple would get married under. 1186 01:00:14,563 --> 01:00:17,352 PRESENTING DON WALTERS AND BONDI WILSON 1187 01:00:17,377 --> 01:00:19,072 STRICTLY X RATED PREFORMANCE 1188 01:00:19,097 --> 01:00:21,684 We were opening a new film at the time 1189 01:00:21,709 --> 01:00:24,387 that I was getting married and I was very, very busy. 1190 01:00:24,412 --> 01:00:26,628 So, I didn't really have that much to do 1191 01:00:26,652 --> 01:00:29,336 with what happened at my wedding. 1192 01:00:42,823 --> 01:00:44,879 My mother wasn't that interested in business 1193 01:00:44,904 --> 01:00:46,760 because Mykonos was going on. 1194 01:00:46,785 --> 01:00:48,348 So, she was more interested in the restaurant 1195 01:00:48,372 --> 01:00:50,418 than she was in the films. 1196 01:00:50,607 --> 01:00:53,640 So, I was doing all of the work. 1197 01:00:57,105 --> 01:00:58,906 In the early '70s, 1198 01:00:58,931 --> 01:01:02,429 it was a very exciting but fraught time. 1199 01:01:04,234 --> 01:01:07,058 There were all kinds of legal implications. 1200 01:01:10,082 --> 01:01:12,742 Hardcore never became legal. 1201 01:01:12,767 --> 01:01:14,726 A community could ban, 1202 01:01:15,495 --> 01:01:18,711 in its local area, certain kinds of porn, 1203 01:01:18,892 --> 01:01:23,228 if it didn't satisfy what they call community standards. 1204 01:01:23,252 --> 01:01:26,148 The federal government was prosecuting people 1205 01:01:26,172 --> 01:01:27,836 and a lot of people were getting busted. 1206 01:01:29,664 --> 01:01:33,046 DA MOVES TO SEIZE "MISS JONES" 1207 01:01:33,228 --> 01:01:35,628 HERBERT NITKE CHARGED WITH OBSCENITY 1208 01:01:35,653 --> 01:01:38,828 Herb, my ex-husband, was charged with obscenity 1209 01:01:38,852 --> 01:01:41,066 three different times; major cases, 1210 01:01:41,091 --> 01:01:44,427 like serious, you will go to jail, 1211 01:01:44,452 --> 01:01:46,608 felony kind of cases. 1212 01:01:49,132 --> 01:01:53,468 Bondi was not real keen about the possibilities 1213 01:01:53,492 --> 01:01:57,586 of getting harassed or arrested running a distribution company. 1214 01:01:57,611 --> 01:01:59,676 She was good at running a distribution company, 1215 01:01:59,701 --> 01:02:01,427 but she didn't like the fact 1216 01:02:01,452 --> 01:02:04,719 that the FBI might wander in and harass her. 1217 01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:07,467 It wasn't until the business 1218 01:02:07,492 --> 01:02:10,852 got a little more dangerous that it got more difficult. 1219 01:02:11,902 --> 01:02:15,672 And for me, it got most difficult 1220 01:02:15,697 --> 01:02:17,700 when I got arrested 1221 01:02:18,056 --> 01:02:21,718 for distributing a film, Illusions of a Lady. 1222 01:02:22,252 --> 01:02:26,731 Yes. You really are quite lovely. 1223 01:02:26,756 --> 01:02:29,346 The indictment was on interstate shipment 1224 01:02:29,371 --> 01:02:31,147 of obscene material 1225 01:02:31,172 --> 01:02:33,860 and conspiracy against the United States. 1226 01:02:33,997 --> 01:02:35,723 So, I felt very threatened 1227 01:02:35,748 --> 01:02:38,347 and I felt she didn't really understand it. 1228 01:02:38,547 --> 01:02:39,901 "Everything's going to be okay, darling. 1229 01:02:39,925 --> 01:02:41,258 Everything's going to be okay." 1230 01:02:41,283 --> 01:02:42,991 In the meantime, it was a felony charge. 1231 01:02:43,016 --> 01:02:45,708 It was... I was arrested by the FBI. 1232 01:02:45,732 --> 01:02:47,388 I mean, it was not everything is okay. 1233 01:02:47,817 --> 01:02:50,262 I had to go to trial in New Orleans. 1234 01:02:50,287 --> 01:02:54,782 And I had been told, too, that I could plead nolo contendere, 1235 01:02:54,972 --> 01:02:57,388 and I wouldn't have to worry about a trial or anything else. 1236 01:02:57,413 --> 01:02:59,987 And I said, "No. I didn't do anything wrong." 1237 01:03:00,012 --> 01:03:01,668 "I'm going to fight this all the way down. 1238 01:03:01,692 --> 01:03:03,454 I'm not copping any plea." 1239 01:03:03,479 --> 01:03:07,303 I apparently have a tic I wasn't aware of, 1240 01:03:07,328 --> 01:03:08,778 which is I giggle. 1241 01:03:09,681 --> 01:03:12,669 So, every time they would ask me a question, I giggled. 1242 01:03:13,403 --> 01:03:16,268 My husband believes that's why I didn't get convicted... 1243 01:03:16,979 --> 01:03:18,942 because I was too stupid. 1244 01:03:19,984 --> 01:03:23,426 So, we all got off, which was wonderful. 1245 01:03:23,451 --> 01:03:26,090 Of course, they asked the jury why, 1246 01:03:26,562 --> 01:03:30,338 and the jury, which was mostly women, 1247 01:03:30,574 --> 01:03:34,670 they said because the Obscenity Law said 1248 01:03:34,695 --> 01:03:36,551 "current community standards," 1249 01:03:36,652 --> 01:03:39,748 and they said, "They make these films down here in the Quarter." 1250 01:03:39,772 --> 01:03:41,379 So, that was it. 1251 01:03:41,404 --> 01:03:44,380 Current community standards, it wasn't violating anything. 1252 01:03:44,524 --> 01:03:46,157 So, that was the end of that. 1253 01:03:46,182 --> 01:03:49,758 Basically, things are changing and I think Hair, Oh! Calcutta!, 1254 01:03:49,783 --> 01:03:51,427 when you have a Paramount movie 1255 01:03:51,452 --> 01:03:53,428 such as Tropic of Cancer using words like "fuck" 1256 01:03:53,452 --> 01:03:56,108 and showing a bush, it would indicate 1257 01:03:56,132 --> 01:03:58,068 that the American public is maturing. 1258 01:04:01,457 --> 01:04:03,987 I lived on 45th Street, 1259 01:04:04,012 --> 01:04:06,228 right across from the theater. It was wonderful, 1260 01:04:06,252 --> 01:04:08,548 but the building was full of prostitutes. 1261 01:04:08,908 --> 01:04:11,922 The porn industry was very closely associated 1262 01:04:11,947 --> 01:04:14,068 with other kinds of sex work, 1263 01:04:14,833 --> 01:04:16,615 prostitution, 1264 01:04:17,132 --> 01:04:19,146 striptease, 1265 01:04:19,804 --> 01:04:22,900 and in New York City that was centered at Times Square. 1266 01:04:24,145 --> 01:04:26,227 I mean, try to understand, 42nd Street, 1267 01:04:26,252 --> 01:04:28,056 you had a lot of blood banks. 1268 01:04:31,166 --> 01:04:34,126 It was a tough, tough area. 1269 01:04:35,004 --> 01:04:37,787 It was also a very violent period, lots of drug use. 1270 01:04:37,812 --> 01:04:38,988 No! 1271 01:04:39,012 --> 01:04:40,428 You would see people, 1272 01:04:40,452 --> 01:04:42,548 I mean, ripping chains off people's necks. 1273 01:04:42,572 --> 01:04:44,447 It was terrible. 1274 01:04:46,372 --> 01:04:47,788 It was scary. 1275 01:04:47,812 --> 01:04:51,708 Nowhere, for $1, nowhere, change, waters. 1276 01:04:51,732 --> 01:04:53,725 I take change, credit cards, phone numbers and everything. 1277 01:04:53,749 --> 01:04:55,875 Check out, check it out, check it out. 1278 01:04:55,900 --> 01:04:57,596 I was in Vietnam. 1279 01:04:57,621 --> 01:05:00,365 I was more afraid of walking down 42nd Street at that time 1280 01:05:00,390 --> 01:05:01,951 than I was in Vietnam. 1281 01:05:04,314 --> 01:05:07,662 It seemed dark. 1282 01:05:07,906 --> 01:05:09,896 "FOR GOD'S SAKE, GET OUT!" 1283 01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:17,508 Quiet on the set, please. Please, quiet. 1284 01:05:17,532 --> 01:05:19,005 We're going to go for a sound take. 1285 01:05:19,030 --> 01:05:21,046 Chelly! Chelly, darling! 1286 01:05:21,071 --> 01:05:24,247 You want for posterity, that means the future, 1287 01:05:24,272 --> 01:05:25,928 to have your photo up? 1288 01:05:25,953 --> 01:05:28,725 We'll play it at The Adonis before every show. 1289 01:05:32,749 --> 01:05:35,307 We stopped making films sometime in the '80s, 1290 01:05:35,332 --> 01:05:37,908 and then the theaters ultimately closed 1291 01:05:37,932 --> 01:05:41,107 in the '90s, with Giuliani. 1292 01:05:41,132 --> 01:05:42,935 Giuliani was our nemesis. 1293 01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:45,126 He came after us with a vengeance. 1294 01:05:45,151 --> 01:05:47,047 A huge urban renewal project 1295 01:05:47,072 --> 01:05:49,408 has closed many porno-related businesses, 1296 01:05:49,433 --> 01:05:50,729 and big business, 1297 01:05:50,754 --> 01:05:53,130 like Disney and Sony, have invested millions. 1298 01:05:53,332 --> 01:05:54,828 Most of the people in New York city 1299 01:05:54,852 --> 01:05:56,748 would like to ban sex shops, porn shops, 1300 01:05:56,772 --> 01:05:58,326 do away with them completely. 1301 01:06:01,744 --> 01:06:02,966 Nowadays, 1302 01:06:02,991 --> 01:06:05,513 I think there are two porn theaters left in New York City. 1303 01:06:05,538 --> 01:06:07,693 One is out in Queens. 1304 01:06:08,373 --> 01:06:11,201 Yeah, we're constantly looking for, like, the last, 1305 01:06:11,511 --> 01:06:14,056 the last porn theater. 1306 01:06:19,473 --> 01:06:21,109 WHAT A GREAT 35 YEARS GOOD BYE FRIENDS 1307 01:06:21,134 --> 01:06:24,322 Once Giuliani came and closed all of the theaters, 1308 01:06:24,347 --> 01:06:27,123 Grandma Chelly had to make an adjustment. 1309 01:06:27,148 --> 01:06:29,547 She had investments in real estate. 1310 01:06:29,572 --> 01:06:31,068 I know that a lot of people 1311 01:06:31,092 --> 01:06:32,388 were going to her for money, 1312 01:06:32,412 --> 01:06:36,228 and I always felt that I didn't want to go 1313 01:06:36,252 --> 01:06:37,908 and hang out with her because sometimes she would say, 1314 01:06:37,932 --> 01:06:39,709 "Are you okay with money? Do you need some money?" 1315 01:06:39,733 --> 01:06:41,216 And she would shove, you know, 1316 01:06:41,241 --> 01:06:43,428 hundreds or whatever it is, in my pocket, 1317 01:06:43,452 --> 01:06:44,951 and it made me feel weird. 1318 01:06:44,976 --> 01:06:46,908 And I was, like, "I don't want to visit her 1319 01:06:46,932 --> 01:06:48,548 if I'm going to get money, you know, each time," 1320 01:06:48,572 --> 01:06:50,728 because I got kind of freaked out by it. 1321 01:06:50,753 --> 01:06:53,627 I know it sounds strange, but it just made me too weirded out. 1322 01:06:53,652 --> 01:06:54,400 You know? 1323 01:06:54,425 --> 01:06:56,745 It's like I didn't want to have that relationship with her. 1324 01:06:58,209 --> 01:07:00,306 And I think there was a time she tried to give me a building, 1325 01:07:00,330 --> 01:07:02,060 but my father talked her out of it. 1326 01:07:02,143 --> 01:07:05,517 Thank God. What would I do with a brownstone in New York? 1327 01:07:07,287 --> 01:07:08,338 Anyway... 1328 01:07:08,363 --> 01:07:10,035 - Sorry. - Yeah. 1329 01:07:12,566 --> 01:07:14,714 But she was very happy that I was in film. 1330 01:07:14,739 --> 01:07:18,587 She did finance my first real attempt at being a filmmaker, 1331 01:07:18,612 --> 01:07:21,628 which was sort of like this supernatural vampire thriller, 1332 01:07:21,652 --> 01:07:23,508 which took place in the theater that she owned 1333 01:07:23,532 --> 01:07:26,128 or the abandoned theater that she owned, the Adonis. 1334 01:07:27,233 --> 01:07:29,585 I said to myself, "This is a haunted mansion." 1335 01:07:32,212 --> 01:07:33,628 For me, it was like 1336 01:07:33,652 --> 01:07:35,588 the porn version of the Chronicles of Narnia. 1337 01:07:35,612 --> 01:07:37,372 It's just... Just everything was weird. 1338 01:07:39,673 --> 01:07:42,467 So, I said, "Okay, well, what do you do with a place like this? 1339 01:07:42,492 --> 01:07:44,668 You make a vampire movie." 1340 01:07:44,692 --> 01:07:46,068 Sweetie, you don't know 1341 01:07:46,092 --> 01:07:48,188 the first thing about being a detective. 1342 01:07:48,212 --> 01:07:51,988 So, I wrote a movie called Gargoyle and Goblin. 1343 01:07:52,012 --> 01:07:54,268 Turn him to stone. 1344 01:07:54,292 --> 01:07:57,585 And I had free run of the place, and we shot in 16 millimeter, 1345 01:07:57,610 --> 01:07:59,554 and I showed her all the footage. 1346 01:08:00,215 --> 01:08:02,387 She had a pretty good laugh at it. 1347 01:08:02,412 --> 01:08:03,948 To Chelly. 1348 01:08:04,415 --> 01:08:05,844 Chelly! 1349 01:08:06,314 --> 01:08:07,698 To Nikki. 1350 01:08:08,034 --> 01:08:09,501 Honestly, I think she was probably 1351 01:08:09,526 --> 01:08:11,868 the only member of my family that I really admired, 1352 01:08:11,892 --> 01:08:14,108 mostly because I knew where she came from 1353 01:08:14,132 --> 01:08:17,548 and how she built this empire essentially on just being gutsy. 1354 01:08:17,572 --> 01:08:19,148 She was a businesswoman 1355 01:08:19,172 --> 01:08:20,987 and she was very good at what she did, 1356 01:08:21,012 --> 01:08:22,828 from selling chestnuts 1357 01:08:22,853 --> 01:08:25,307 to buying, you know, property in New York 1358 01:08:25,332 --> 01:08:26,588 that was worth a fortune. 1359 01:08:26,612 --> 01:08:27,828 She did very well. 1360 01:08:27,852 --> 01:08:29,392 Oh, my God! 1361 01:08:31,245 --> 01:08:32,548 Oh, my God! 1362 01:08:32,572 --> 01:08:34,766 Because there was always a plan. 1363 01:08:34,791 --> 01:08:38,665 You might not have known what it was, but she had a plan. 1364 01:08:38,945 --> 01:08:42,681 As I started to get older and know more about the story 1365 01:08:42,932 --> 01:08:45,628 of my mother and how she survived 1366 01:08:45,652 --> 01:08:48,867 and what my grandmother did on behest of her family, 1367 01:08:48,892 --> 01:08:52,828 I started to see her picture in a larger way. 1368 01:08:52,853 --> 01:08:54,189 There's something 1369 01:08:54,214 --> 01:08:58,950 that I feel that I owe to her, 1370 01:08:58,981 --> 01:09:00,517 my grandmother. 1371 01:09:00,542 --> 01:09:02,158 She might not have thought 1372 01:09:02,183 --> 01:09:04,547 that what she was doing was an act of resistance, 1373 01:09:04,572 --> 01:09:08,585 by coming to United States and leaving my mother, but it was. 1374 01:09:14,142 --> 01:09:17,662 I think she had an invincibility sort of idea about herself. 1375 01:09:18,927 --> 01:09:21,143 And then, as she got older, 1376 01:09:21,652 --> 01:09:25,268 I think she realized that, you know, she has limitations, too. 1377 01:09:25,292 --> 01:09:27,308 What is it? 1378 01:09:27,332 --> 01:09:28,740 Oh! 1379 01:09:40,272 --> 01:09:42,808 Later in her life, she started to get sicker. 1380 01:09:42,833 --> 01:09:44,667 You know, she had many heart attacks. 1381 01:09:44,692 --> 01:09:46,708 She was a chain-smoker for many years. 1382 01:09:46,732 --> 01:09:48,828 She quit smoking, but, you know, 1383 01:09:48,852 --> 01:09:51,404 I think she survived five heart attacks, if not more. 1384 01:09:53,803 --> 01:09:56,099 And I think she then became scared. 1385 01:09:56,452 --> 01:09:58,188 I hope it's going to fit you, Ma. 1386 01:09:58,212 --> 01:10:00,148 You know, she loved life so much. 1387 01:10:02,012 --> 01:10:03,748 Because if it doesn't fit... 1388 01:10:03,772 --> 01:10:05,668 It fits. 1389 01:10:05,692 --> 01:10:07,108 How was your birthday? 1390 01:10:07,132 --> 01:10:08,428 Good. Very good, very good. 1391 01:10:08,452 --> 01:10:10,508 - Good. - The best. 1392 01:10:10,532 --> 01:10:12,434 Terrific. 1393 01:10:15,359 --> 01:10:17,138 When Grandma Chelly was dying, 1394 01:10:17,187 --> 01:10:19,348 she had the forethought to write this letter. 1395 01:10:19,372 --> 01:10:22,628 She made the shopping list for what she wanted Bondi 1396 01:10:22,652 --> 01:10:26,316 and my mother to buy to eat at her funeral, 1397 01:10:26,341 --> 01:10:28,835 and we had to follow it to the T. 1398 01:10:30,582 --> 01:10:32,694 Spinach pie, 1399 01:10:33,118 --> 01:10:35,214 pickles, whitefish, 1400 01:10:35,239 --> 01:10:38,451 Nova Scotia, mustard, everything. 1401 01:10:38,799 --> 01:10:40,867 Olives, baklava. 1402 01:10:41,847 --> 01:10:48,463 Huevos haminados, those eggs they made in Salonika. 1403 01:10:48,612 --> 01:10:51,500 She said, "I want you to eat this food." 1404 01:10:52,005 --> 01:10:55,507 "I want you to enjoy it. I want you to toast me. 1405 01:10:55,532 --> 01:10:57,268 "And I want you to know 1406 01:10:57,292 --> 01:11:00,738 that I am with God and I have no regrets." 1407 01:11:04,295 --> 01:11:05,769 That was a very nice gift 1408 01:11:05,794 --> 01:11:08,170 that she gave to all of us, to say that. 1409 01:11:15,692 --> 01:11:18,460 We used to joke that she died on Thanksgiving, 1410 01:11:18,485 --> 01:11:20,988 so that she would see us with all the food. 1411 01:11:21,012 --> 01:11:23,788 And so, when we had Thanksgiving just two days ago, 1412 01:11:23,812 --> 01:11:26,428 even my mother and Bondi were, like, "Yes, mother. 1413 01:11:26,452 --> 01:11:29,301 Here, we're taking pictures of the food." 1414 01:11:29,326 --> 01:11:31,147 Those things in life were important to her. 1415 01:11:31,172 --> 01:11:33,468 Food, survival. 1416 01:11:33,492 --> 01:11:36,000 You claim your space. You are who you are. 1417 01:11:39,372 --> 01:11:42,228 While you're here now, you're going to enjoy yourself 1418 01:11:42,416 --> 01:11:45,344 and make the best out of everything. 1419 01:11:50,722 --> 01:11:54,680 NEW JERSEY 1420 01:12:13,519 --> 01:12:16,015 Why am I building this? 1421 01:12:16,135 --> 01:12:17,968 I feel like I'm possessed. 1422 01:12:19,923 --> 01:12:24,293 I have wanted to build this since I was 16 years old. 1423 01:12:25,292 --> 01:12:27,188 So, at a certain point, I said, 1424 01:12:27,212 --> 01:12:28,650 "Okay, I'll build this whole thing 1425 01:12:28,675 --> 01:12:30,960 and the story will come to me." 1426 01:12:31,138 --> 01:12:35,285 Sort of like Game of Thrones meets Private Ryan, in space. 1427 01:12:35,652 --> 01:12:37,508 I'm going to roll this puppy 1428 01:12:37,532 --> 01:12:40,868 into a studio and shoot a movie. 1429 01:12:40,892 --> 01:12:43,868 Also, I'm very kind of proud of the fact that, somehow, 1430 01:12:43,892 --> 01:12:48,188 this lineage of film making has continued throughout. 1431 01:12:48,212 --> 01:12:53,409 I can't imagine Chelly divorced from movies at all. 1432 01:12:53,434 --> 01:12:57,843 So, for me, it just kept in line with the family. 1433 01:12:59,209 --> 01:13:00,865 Oh, she would love to see this. 1434 01:13:00,890 --> 01:13:02,610 I think she would get a real kick out of it. 1435 01:13:04,452 --> 01:13:07,228 I think that definitely being raised in that family, 1436 01:13:07,742 --> 01:13:09,386 the weirdness of it 1437 01:13:09,411 --> 01:13:12,511 made me numb to everybody else's reality. 1438 01:13:13,372 --> 01:13:15,675 It was always like being in another world. 1439 01:13:16,421 --> 01:13:18,800 So, with that kind of a life upbringing, 1440 01:13:18,825 --> 01:13:20,773 I don't think I had any choice. 1441 01:13:21,144 --> 01:13:24,067 When I see what people do with their lives as a daily grind, 1442 01:13:24,092 --> 01:13:26,708 you know, you wake up, you have your, whatever breakfast, 1443 01:13:26,732 --> 01:13:28,348 you go nine hours a day, whatever, 1444 01:13:28,372 --> 01:13:30,108 I look at that like science fiction; 1445 01:13:30,132 --> 01:13:32,386 I don't know how anyone does that. 1446 01:13:32,411 --> 01:13:34,627 And that might sound incredibly spoiled 1447 01:13:34,652 --> 01:13:37,855 or entitled or whatever it is. 1448 01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:40,511 But I mean, if you're not here to create something, 1449 01:13:40,536 --> 01:13:43,867 or to give someone else escapism, or have a message, 1450 01:13:43,892 --> 01:13:46,664 or do something, then what are you doing? 1451 01:13:50,972 --> 01:13:52,913 QUEEN OF THE DEUCE 105996

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