All language subtitles for The Liberators (2016)_en

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[INTERVIEWER]
SO WHEN DID YOU BECOME MAYOR
OF WHITEWRIGHT, TEXAS?

[BILL GOODSON]
1984.

IN '84.
30 YEARS.

[INTERVIEWER]
DID YOU KNOW
THE MEADOR FAMILY?

[GOODSON]
OH, YEAH, I KNEW ALL OF 'EM,

THE SISTERS, THE HIM,
THE UNCLES, THE SON,

THE NEPHEW,
THE WHOLE BUNCH.

[INTERVIEWER]
AND HAD YOU SEEN
THE TREASURES,

BEFORE THIS WHOLE
CRAZY STORY BROKE?

[GOODSON]
NO, IN FACT, NO ONE KNEW.

AND I WAS COMING IN
FROM WORK,

AND I SEEN ALL THESE CAMERAS,

AND PICTURES AND PEOPLE
RUNNING ALL OVER TOWN.

THEY SAID, "THEY WAITING
ON YOU TO COME,"

AND I SAID "FOR WHAT?"

THEY SAID, "THEY JUST FOUND
THE TREASURE IN TOWN."

I SAID, "WHAT?
WHAT DO YOU MEAN, 'TREASURE'?"

AN ASTONISHING TURN TODAY

IN A TRAIL THAT LEADS FROM
EUROPE IN THE FINAL DAYS
OF WORLD WAR II

TO A SMALL DESOLATE TEXAS TOWN
NEAR THE OKLAHOMA BORDER

AND PERHAPS TO A TREASURE TROVE
OF MASTERPIECES.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

[WILLI KORTE]
MY NAME IS WILLI KORTE,

AND WHAT I'VE BEEN DOING FOR
A LIVING FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS

IS RECOVER STOLEN ART.

KLAUS GOLDMANN TOLD ME
THAT AT THE END OF WORLD WAR II,

HALF OF THE TREASURE
DISAPPEARED

DURING THE OCCUPATION
BY THE AMERICANS,

AND THAT HE HAD SOME DOCUMENTS
AND WHETHER I WAS INTERESTED

TO HAVE A LOOK AT IT
AND COULD POSSIBLY RESEARCH

MORE ABOUT THIS STORY.

I MEAN, THE QUEDLINBURG
TREASURES

OF COURSE, ARE TREMENDOUS
RELIGIOUS, HISTORICAL VALUE.

IT'S NOT JUST
ANOTHER PAINTING, YOU KNOW,

OR ANOTHER MUSEUM'S PIECE.

IT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS
A HISTORY OF OVER 1,000 YEARS

AND-- AND, UM--

I COULDN'T THINK
OF ANY OTHER CASE

THAT I COULD EVER PURSUE
FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE

THAT WOULD HAVE
THAT KIND OF SIGNIFICANCE.

[DR. CHARLES LITTLE]
THE TREASURE WAS KNOWN TO ME

BECAUSE I'D VISITED QUEDLINBURG
AS A GRADUATE STUDENT,

BUT KNOWING THAT PARTS OF IT
HAD BEEN LOST DURING THE WAR.

MANY OF THE EARLIEST OBJECTS
IN THE TREASURE,

A WONDERFUL IVORY COMB
THAT IS VERY EXOTIC,

AND ITS CARVING ALMOST TOOK ON
A RELIQUARY AND HOLY STATUS

AT A VERY EARLY DATE.

ONCE THEY ARRIVED
IN QUEDLINBURG,

THESE OBJECTS
TOOK ON THEIR OWN BEAUTY
AND LIFE AND SANCTITY.

THERE'S A STORY
FROM A SAINT'S LIFE,

WHERE A FAMOUS OTTONIAN WOMAN,
HATHAMOTA,

HAD ONE OF THESE
HANGING OVER HER BED,

AND THERE WAS A MIRACLE
ASSOCIATED WITH IT,

SO THEY WERE SEEN
AS ALMOST MIRACULOUS STUFF,

AND THEY WERE THINGS THAT,
TO SOME EXTENT IN THE PRIVATE
POSSESSION,

THESE QUEENS,
THESE PRINCESSES, ET CETERA.

THEY'RE REALLY VERY,
VERY PRECIOUS OBJECTS.

MOST BOOKS
ARE COMPOSITE OBJECTS.

THEY COMPRISE ALL KINDS
OF DIFFERENT MATERIALS,

LIKE TEXTILES AND WOOD
AND IVORY AND PARCHMENT,

AND OBVIOUSLY,
MEDIEVAL MANUSCRIPTS

ARE A VERY SPECIAL CATEGORY

THAT CAN INVOLVE, YOU KNOW,
PRECIOUS STONES,

AND GOLD AND METALS.

BUT WHEN THEY HAVE
THESE FANTASTIC TREASURE
BINDINGS ON THEM,

THE BOOKS CAN BE DIFFICULT
TO HANDLE SAFELY

IN A WAY THAT PRESERVES
BOTH THE COVER

AND THE ILLUMINATIONS INSIDE.

THESE ARE
MEDIEVAL MANUSCRIPTS,

ARE OFTEN EXTRAORDINARY
WORKS OF ART.

[KORTE]
MY FATHER WAS IN
THE PRECIOUS METAL BUSINESS,

AT THE END OF THE WAR,
WHEN HE HAD TO FLEE

FROM DRESDEN
UNDER SOVIET OCCUPATION,

HE HID A GOOD DEAL
OF GOLD AND SILVER

BEFORE HE FLED,

SO ONCE GERMAN
REUNIFICATION TAKES PLACE,

WE COULD GO BACK
AND DIG UP THE TREASURES.

I GREW UP WITH THE IDEA

THAT THE FAMILY
HAS A TREASURE

IN A PLACE
THAT IS INACCESSIBLE

AND ONE DAY WE SHOULD
BE ABLE TO GO THERE

AND RECOVER IT.

AND I ACTUALLY WENT
TO EAST GERMANY

TO RECOVER THE TREASURE
BUT IT WAS GONE.

WELL, THIS IS
THE NATIONAL RECORDS CENTER
IN SUITLAND, MARYLAND.

AND AT THE TIME WHEN I DID
THE QUEDLINBURG RESEARCH

IT ALSO HAD A READING ROOM
FOR THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES

AND THE MILITARY RECORDS
WHICH WERE THE ONES THAT
WERE MOST RELEVANT

FOR MY RESEARCH WERE ACTUALLY
IN THIS BUILDING,

SO THIS IS WHERE I DID
ALL THE ESSENTIAL RESEARCH
ON THE QUEDLINBURG CASE.

THE JOB THAT I INITIALLY
HAD FROM KLAUS GOLDMANN

WAS TO GO
THROUGH THE RECORDS OF
THE U.S. MILITARY GOVERNMENT

PERTAINING
TO THE KNOWLEDGE
IN THOSE DOCUMENTS

AS FAR AS THE FATE
OF THESE MISSING MUSEUMS,

BECAUSE THEY HAD EVACUATED
PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING.

WHEN I STARTED
THE RESEARCH IN '86,

WE STILL HAD
A FULL-BLOWN EAST GERMANY.

SO I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT RECORDS
EXISTED IN QUEDLINBURG.

AND THE ONLY PLACE I COULD
GO TO WAS THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES

AND DO THE RESEARCH
ON THE UNIT

THAT WAS IN QUEDLINBURG
AT THE TIME

AND THEN FROM THERE
TRY TO FIND OUT

WHO THE THIEF OR THE THIEVES
COULD HAVE BEEN.

I NEEDED AND RECEIVED
THE HELP OF KLAUS GOLDMANN,

WHO THEN INTRODUCED ME
TO BILL HONAN

AT THE "NEW YORK TIMES."

BILL HONAN
FROM THE "NEW YORK TIMES"

INITIALLY WAS RATHER
SKEPTICAL OF THE WHOLE STORY,

BUT I THINK ONCE
HE HAD ACCEPTED IT
AS A CREDIBLE STORY,

HE GOT VERY EXCITED
ABOUT IT,

AND WE WORKED
VERY CLOSELY TOGETHER.

IT WAS REALLY
A VERY PRODUCTIVE,

I THINK, TYPE OF SORT
OF SECRET COLLABORATION
FOR BOTH OF US,

AND I THINK WE DEVELOPED

A VERY SORT OF FRIENDLY
TYPE OF COOPERATION.

SO I HAD TO GO
BACK TO WASHINGTON,

AND WE DOCUMENT AND SIT HOURS
AND HOURS IN THE ARCHIVES,

FOR WEEKS AND WEEKS.

THINGS LIKE
THE QUEDLINBURG TREASURES,

WORKS OF ART,

ARE USUALLY STOLEN
BY OFFICERS,

BECAUSE THEY HAD PRIVILEGED
ACCESS TO PLACES.

YOU KNOW, IF THERE WAS
A CASTLE FULL OF ARTWORKS,

THEY ARE THE ONES
WHO COULD GO IN.

THEY ARE THE ONES
WHO HAD THE OPPORTUNITY

TO PICK OUT THE PIECES
AND THEY WOULDN'T BE
SERIOUSLY QUESTIONED

IF THEY WOULD WALK OUT
WITH SOMETHING,

BECAUSE I MEAN,
THEY COULD BE TAKING IT
TO HIGHER HEADQUARTERS

OR WHATEVER.

WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR

WAS INFORMATION PERTAINING
TO THE DISCOVERY OF VALUABLES

IN OR AROUND QUEDLINBURG.

I HAD BEEN TOLD
AT THE TIME,

THAT THE CITY MOVED
ITS MOST VALUABLE POSSESSIONS

INTO THIS CAVE.

I WAS LOOKING FOR
SOME INFORMATION
IN THE MILITARY DOCUMENTS

THAT REPORTED
THE DISCOVERY OF THE CAVE

AND TO FIND PROOF
THAT THE AMERICANS
HAD DISCOVERED THE CAVE,

AND SECONDLY FIND SOME DETAILS
ON THE PARTICULAR UNIT,
SMALLER UNIT,

THAT EITHER
HAD DISCOVERED IT,
REPORTED IT,

GUARDED, OR WHATSOEVER.

AND I READ DOCUMENTS
LIKE THIS,

AND I THINK IT'S TIME TO,
YOU KNOW, TURN THE PAGE,

AND THEN SOMEHOW,
SOMETHING TELLS ME,

"ARE YOU SURE YOU READ
EVERYTHING CAREFULLY?

THEN YOU HAVE TO READ
THE WHOLE THING AGAIN."

SO IT'S VERY TIME-CONSUMING.

FINALLY I FOUND THIS ENTRY

FOR APRIL 20, 1945.

"CAVE AT" AND THEN
COORDINATES ARE GIVEN,

"BIG ROOM,
STATUES AND CRATES,

TWO ROOMS IN UPPER LEVEL,
OIL PAINTINGS AND RECORDS,

FOURTH SQUADRON."

ONCE I HAD
THESE COORDINATES,

I COULD THEN LOCATE
THE SPECIFIC PLACE

THAT THESE COORDINATES
REFER TO.

AND IT INDEED
WAS RIGHT THERE

WHERE THE CAVE
WAS IN QUEDLINBURG.

ONCE I'M IN THE ARCHIVES
AND I HAVE A QUESTION
IN FRONT OF ME,

AND-- AND IT DOESN'T
GO VERY WELL, YOU KNOW.

I-- I KNOW THERE MUST BE
SOMETHING SOMEWHERE.

I HAVE A TENDENCY TO NOT
GIVE UP EASILY AND-- AND--

AND THAT KIND OF AN ATTITUDE
I HAD AT THE TIME

WHERE I AT LEAST
WANTED TO FIND OUT

WHO WAS IN QUEDLINBURG.

[MAN]
SOLDIERS, SAILORS,
AND AIRMEN

OF THE ALLIED
EXPEDITIONARY FORCES,

YOU ARE ABOUT TO EMBARK
UPON THE GREAT CRUSADE.

"THE COUNTRYSIDE
IS PEACEFUL, GREEN,

ROLLING AND VERY
LAZY-LOOKING IN GENERAL.

THERE'S A VERY NEAT
LITTLE FARM OFF TO THE LEFT

WITH NEAT BARNS, HAYSTACKS
THAT LOOK LIKE A BREAD PAN

FULL OF HOT BUNS
OR A TOADSTOOL PATCH.

ON THE APPROACH
FROM THE REAR,

ONE FINDS THAT THAT SWEET
SMELLING HAYSTACK STINKS

WITH A JERRY ANTI-TANK
GUN INSIDE.

WELL, THE PROBLEM IS SOLVED.

FIRE INCENDIARY
AT THE HAYSTACK.

THEN WE HAVE ROASTED JERRY
IN ABOUT 20 MINUTES."

[SPEAKING IN GERMAN]

[SPEAKING ENGLISH
WITH GERMAN ACCENT]

[SPEAKING IN GERMAN]

WHEN AMERICAN
BOMBARDMENT OF GERMANY

BEGAN IN ABOUT 1943,

HIMMLER, WHO HAD FALLEN
IN LOVE WITH THEM

HAD THEM SECRETED
IN THIS CAVE.

[INTERVIEWER]
DIDN'T HIMMLER THINK
THAT HE WAS THE REINCARNATION

-OF SOME PAST GERMAN KING?
-YES, HE DID.

HE WAS QUITE A SCREWBALL

AND BELIEVED THAT HE WAS
A REINCARNATION

OF HEINRICH I.

SHE SAID THE AMERICAN
CAME AFTER THE WORLD WAR.

NO, THEY CAME
TO FINISH THE WAR.

AND MY NATIVE TOWN
IS ON THE ELBE.

AND FROM THE WEST,
THE AMERICAN CONQUERORS--

THEY CAME TO TOWN
OF WUNDER IN THE NIGHT.

AND THE HOUSE OF MY PARENTS
IS UNDER TOWN WAR.

THEY NEEDED THIS HOUSE TO--

LOOK FOR GERMAN SOLDIERS.

AND THEREFORE WAS
A MACHINE GUN IN OUR ROOM.

SO THEY WERE SITTING
ON THE FLOOR

AND THEY READ
IN A NEWSPAPER AND--

READ "ROOSEVELT IS DEAD."

AND THAT WAS THE NEWS
ON 13 OF APRIL, '45.

TWO YEARS AFTER THE END
OF THE SECOND WORLD WAR--

[SPEAKING IN GERMAN]

THE LIST OF THINGS
STOLEN BY THE NAZIS

IS AS BROAD
AS ANYONE CAN IMAGINE.

IF IT HAD MONETARY VALUE
OR HISTORIC VALUE,

IT WAS STOLEN IF IT WASN'T
DESTROYED BEFOREHAND.

THE MONUMENTS OFFICERS
WERE THERE TO PROTECT IT

REGARDLESS
OF WHAT COUNTRY
IT CAME FROM,

INCLUDING THINGS
THAT BELONGED TO GERMANY.

THEIR VIEW WAS DISPASSIONATE
IN THAT REGARD,

DESPITE HAVING
VERY STRONG PASSIONS

ABOUT THE HORRIFIC
WAR CRIMES

THAT THEY WERE ALSO
WITNESS TO.

HERE YOU HAVE
THIS CONUNDRUM OF--

OF THE UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT

BEING ON THE SIDE
OF THE HATED S.S.,

THE MOST BRUTAL
ORGANIZATION

UNDER HITLER'S
NAZI GERMANY.

WAS NOT A FRIENDLY ATTITUDE
TOWARDS GERMANY AND THE GERMANS

RIGHT AT THE END
OF THE WAR.

[NARRATOR]
YOU WILL NOT BE FRIENDLY.

YOU WILL BE ALOOF,
WATCHFUL, AND SUSPICIOUS.

EVERY GERMAN IS A POTENTIAL
SOURCE OF TROUBLE.

THEREFORE, THERE MUST BE
NO FRATERNIZATION

WITH ANY OF THE GERMAN PEOPLE.

[KORTE]
LOOTING SPOILS OF WAR
WAS GENERALLY ACCEPTED.

USUALLY THESE UNITS
WERE STATIONED

IN LARGER BUILDINGS
OUTSIDE CITIES,

SO THERE WERE OFTEN CASTLES
AND ESTATES AND SO FORTH.

"I SENT HOME
THE SECOND BOOK.

IT HAS A HAMMERED
GOLD COVER

WITH SOME 80 JEWELS
INLAID IN IT.

PLEASE STORE IT MOST CAREFULLY
FOR ME, AS IT IS VERY VALUABLE."

[EDSEL]
IN THE HISTORY OF WARFARE,
TAKING OF SPOILS OF WAR

WAS A COMMONLY
ACCEPTED PRACTICE.

IN FACT, ARMIES SOMETIMES
PAID THEIR SOLDIERS

BY ALLOWING THEM
TO TAKE THE THINGS

THAT THEY COULD
WALK AWAY WITH.

THAT'S WHAT MAKES
WORLD WAR II

SUCH A DEMARCATION LINE

WITH HOW WARS HAVE BEEN
FOUGHT IN THE PAST.

THAT YOU HAD
THE WESTERN ALLIES

THROUGH GENERAL EISENHOWER'S
ORDERS

STIPULATE THAT THIS POLICY
WAS GONNA BE DIFFERENT

THAN HOW THINGS
HAVE WORKED IN THE PAST.

THESE WORKS OF ART
AND CULTURAL TREASURES
WERE NOT GONNA BE TAKEN,

AND IN FACT, AN ENORMOUS
AMOUNT OF RESOURCES

WERE GONNA BE PUT INTO PLACE
TO TRY AND IDENTIFY

WHO THE RIGHTFUL OWNERS WERE
AND GET THEM BACK.

[KORTE]
THE FIRST THING THEY DID,
THEY GO INTO THE BASEMENT

AND SEE WHAT'S IN
THE WINE CELLAR.

AFTER THE COGNAC
AND THE RED WINE IS GONE,

THEN THEY GO UPSTAIRS
AND THEY PICKED OUT SOMETHING

WHICH THEY TOOK HOME
FOR MOTHER AS A SOUVENIR.

AND IT WAS ONE PIECE.

NOW, JOE, YOU KNOW,
OBVIOUSLY WANTED TO TAKE MORE

THAN JUST ONE SOUVENIR
FOR MOTHER.

HE WAS ON A DIFFERENT LEVEL.

WELL, IMAGINE PEOPLE
GOING INTO QUEDLINBURG,

WHICH WAS NOT
DAMAGED BY THE WAR,

AND THE PRIMARY DRAW OF PEOPLE
GOING INTO THE CHURCH

ARE THESE GREAT RELICS
THAT ARE GONE, STOLEN,

AND EVEN WORSE,
BY AMERICAN FORCES.

BUT IT BRINGS SHAME
ON THE AMERICAN ARMY
AND SOLDIERS

THAT ONE SOLDIER WOULD CHOOSE
TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

WHICH IS WHY THE SOLDIERS
THAT WERE ABLE TO BE IDENTIFIED

RIGHT AT THE END OF THE WAR
WERE SO SEVERELY PUNISHED.

IT WAS TO SEND A MESSAGE,
"THIS ISN'T GONNA
BE TOLERATED."

OUR CULTURAL TREASURES,
OUR HERITAGE AS A CIVILIZATION

THAT DEFINES WHO WE ARE

IS ONE OF THE REASONS
THEY WERE FIGHTING.

SO THE FACT THAT ONE
OF THESE SOLDIERS

WOULD HAVE STOLEN STUFF

FROM SO MANY OTHER
MILLIONS OF TROOPS

WHO WERE RISKING LIVES
TO TRY AND PROTECT

AS PART OF THEIR
OVERALL MISSION

IS DISRESPECTFUL
AND OFFENSIVE

TO EVERY ONE
OF THE TROOPS THAT SERVED

AND IN PARTICULAR,
THOSE THAT DIDN'T COME HOME

BECAUSE THEY'RE BURIED
IN EUROPE.

"I'M PERFECTLY HAPPY
THAT THE BOOK GOT HOME.

IT IS A VERY VALUABLE THING,
SO CARE FOR IT.

THERE'S ONE MORE ON THE WAY
SOMEWHAT LIKE IT.

ALSO A CHEST
OF THE SAME TYPE,

EXCEPT THE CHEST HAS A BUNCH
OF IVORY INLAY IN IT.

LIFE HERE IS MOST BORING.

NOTHING TO DO AT ALL.

ALL THE HIGH RANK TAKES
ALL THE PASSES TO PARIS,

TO BRUSSELS, TO ANTWERP,
TO ITALY, TO SWITZERLAND.

WE JUST SIT HERE
IN THE WOODS

GOING NUTS SLOWLY."

YOU SHOULD KNOW
THAT DURING THE COLD WAR

WE HAD NO
REAL CHANCE TO SPEAK

WITH THE SOVIET UNION

OR WITH THE UNITED STATES
OF AMERICA OR GREAT BRITAIN

OR FRANCE ABOUT
THE RETURNING OF TREASURES

WHICH WERE STOLEN
DURING THE WAR.

AND I BELIEVE,
PERSONALLY I BELIEVE ALSO

THE G.D.R. GOVERNMENT
HAD NO INTEREST--

NO INTEREST.

[KORTE]
THE FOLKS
OF QUEDLINBURG

COMPLAINED
AT THE END OF THE WAR

THAT NUMEROUS PIECES
WERE MISSING

EVER SINCE THE AMERICANS
WERE IN TOWN.

SO THERE WAS THIS ORIGINAL LIST
THAT I HAD OF THE PIECES

THAT WERE MISSING
FROM QUEDLINBURG.

YOU HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND
WHEN I DID THE RESEARCH

I COULDN'T GET ANY RESEARCH
DONE IN QUEDLINBURG

WHICH WAS EAST GERMANY.

ONE OF THE REASONS
WHY THE CHURCH

WAS TRYING TO KEEP
A LOW PROFILE

BECAUSE THEY FEARED
THAT THE GOVERNMENT

WOULD REMOVE
THE REMAINING PIECES

AND PUT THEM IN A MUSEUM.

THE CHURCH WAS ALWAYS FEARFUL
THAT THEY WOULD LOSE

THE REMAINING PIECES.

[BRECHT]
IN THE BEGINNING IT WAS
VERY RISKY FOR EVERYBODY.

MY FAMILY AND ME, WE WERE
OBSERVED FOR SEVERAL MONTHS.

AROUND OUR HOUSE
WE HAD CARS WITH OFFICIALS

OF THE SECRET SERVICE,
OF THE G.D.R.

AND PEOPLE WHO CAME TO ME
WERE CONTROLLED BY THEM.

AND-- I FOUND
ALSO IN MY FILE

OF THE SECRET SERVICE

THAT THEY HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE
WHO WERE RESPONSIBLE

TO DELIVER INFORMATION
ABOUT MY PRIVATE LIFE,
MY CONTACTS,

AND ALL MY ACTIVITIES.

[MARTINA PEETZ]
I CAME HOME FROM SCHOOL BY BUS,

AND MY BOYS, 14 AND 10,

WERE STILL SITTING IN FRONT
OF THE TELEVISION.

AND I SAID,
"WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE?

WHY AREN'T YOU IN BED?"

AND GEORG, MY ELDER SON SAID,
"WELL, THE BORDER IS OPEN.

SO THEY WERE SITTING
AND WATCHING THIS,

AND I WAS SITTING
AND WATCHING THIS.

I COULDN'T REALLY
BELIEVE IT

BECAUSE YOU WEREN'T
PREPARED FOR THAT.

AND IT WENT SO--
THAT IT WENT SO FAST.
IT WENT TOO FAST.

IT WAS IN MY OFFICIAL JOB

TO CHECK WHERE ARE
OUR OBJECTS OF THIS MUSEUM.

THEREFORE, I HAD TO CHECK
WHAT REALLY HAPPENED

AT THE END OF THE WAR.

I FOUND THAT MANY, MANY
PUBLISHED STORIES,

THEY ARE PURE LIES.

AND NOW IT WAS
AN OPEN QUESTION,

"WHERE CAN IT BE THEN?"

[KORTE]
SO I TRIED
TO PUZZLE IT TOGETHER

FROM THE RECORDS
IN THE ARCHIVES.

UNFORTUNATELY, THOSE RECORDS
WERE NOT MAINTAINED.

THESE RECORDS
DON'T COME WITH ROSTERS.

SO I STILL DIDN'T KNOW
WHO SERVED AT THAT TIME

IN WHICH UNIT.

THE PLACE TO GO TO FOR
PERSONNEL-RELATED INFORMATION

IS NOT IN WASHINGTON,
BUT IS IN ST, LOUIS.

SO I WENT TO ST. LOUIS
WITH THE HOPE OF FINDING

THE ROSTERS
FOR THESE UNITS.

I COULDN'T JUST
CALL THEM UP.

I DIDN'T SAY, "LISTEN,
DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING

ABOUT THE QUEDLINBURG TREASURE
AND WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM?"

BECAUSE I NEVER KNEW
WHO I WAS TALKING TO.

I COULD HAVE CALLED UP
ONE OF THE THIEVES.

THAT WAS BEFORE
THE INTERNET.

ANYTHING I WANTED TO FIND OUT
I HAD TO CALL PEOPLE UP.

I HAD TO SEND THEM FAXES.

I HAD TO DRIVE BECAUSE
I DIDN'T HAVE THE MONEY

FOR AN AIRPLANE TICKET.

SO I DROVE DOWN THERE
AND SLEPT IN MY CAR...

AND COME BACK EMPTY-HANDED.

THIS WAS MY FIRST CONTACT
WITH WILLI IN THIS CASE.

AND HE WAS DRIVEN,
HE DROVE ME.

HE'S VERY GOOD
AT GETTING PEOPLE TO DO
WHAT HE WANTS.

HE WAS PASSIONATE
ABOUT SOLVING THIS CASE.

IT BECAME PRETTY
TIME-CONSUMING,

AND PRETTY--
PRETTY FRUSTRATING,

AND I'M NOT SURE
HOW MUCH LONGER

I COULD HAVE CONTINUED
IF THAT SAMUHEL GOSPEL

WOULDN'T HAVE SHOWN UP.

IT HAD BEEN
A 10-YEAR-LONG EFFORT

OF JOE TOM MEADOR'S
BROTHERS AND SISTER

TO SELL THIS MATERIAL,
AND TO FIND A BUYER FOR IT.

THEY SHOWED THESE THINGS
TO 10 PRIVATE DEALERS

AND ALSO CHRISTIE'S,
THE ART AUCTION HOUSE.

[INTERVIEWER]
AND CHRISTIE'S DIDN'T THINK

IT WAS NECESSARY TO ALERT
THE GERMAN GOVERNMENT?

IT IS OUTRAGEOUS, IN MY VIEW,
BUT THAT IS THEIR OPINION.

AND SO AFTER HAVING KEPT
THESE TREASURES,

TWO OF THE MOST VALUABLE
OF THEM, THE MANUSCRIPTS,

FOR NEARLY HALF A YEAR

AND DETERMINING
BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT

THAT THIS WAS
STOLEN PROPERTY,

WHAT DID THEY DO?
DID THEY DO WHAT YOU
AND I WOULD DO,

WHICH IS CALL THE POLICE?
OR AT LEAST NOTIFY THE GERMANS,

AS YOU SUGGESTED?
NO, THEY DIDN'T.

THEY SURREPTITIOUSLY RETURNED
THEM TO THE PRESUMPTIVE THIEF.

S-A-M-U-H-E-L, SAMUHEL.

SO IT'S SPELLED
IN AN ODD WAY,

BUT THAT'S JUST
ONE PAGE OF IT.

AND IT'S JUST WONDERFUL.

LATER CAROLINGIAN--
GOSPEL BOOK.

SO EACH GOSPEL, MATTHEW,
MARK, LUKE AND JOHN

HAS A PREFACE
OF THE EVANGELIST

SITTING THERE WRITING
HIS GOSPELS.

THE WORLD IS SMALL WHEN
IT COMES TO THINGS LIKE THIS.

'CAUSE THERE ARE ONLY
SO MANY SPECIALISTS

WHOSE OPINIONS
MIGHT MATTER

IF A FAMILY
IS TRYING TO SELL--

OR GET AN APPRAISAL
OF AN ILLUMINATED MEDIEVAL
MANUSCRIPT, FOR EXAMPLE.

NOT TO SPEAK OF ONE
AS VALUABLE

AS THE GOSPELS
OR THE OTHER WORKS

THAT WERE A PART
OF THE QUEDLINBURG TREASURES.

THE PRICE TAG
HAS BEEN PUT ON THEM.

THEY ARE SAID TO BE WORTH
MORE THAN $200 MILLION.

THEY WERE SAID TO BE WORTH
MORE THAN A VAN GOGH PAINTING

AND THEY'RE JUST
EXTRAORDINARILY VALUABLE.

MY WIFE,
WHO IS A RELIGIOUS PERSON,

THINKS THAT I'M, YOU KNOW,

A PERSON
SORT OF LACKING FAITH.

I SAID, "LISTEN,
DON'T WORRY ABOUT MY FAITH,

I THINK I'M CLEARLY
A PERSON OF FAITH,"

BECAUSE CERTAIN THINGS
HAPPENED ALONG THE WAY

IN THE QUEDLINBURG CASE
THAT WERE HIGHLY UNEXPECTED.

AFTER THE SAMUHEL GOSPELS
HAD REAPPEARED,

I WAS GOING TO GO TO SEE
MR. FOLTER AT H.P. KRAUS

TO WHOM THE SAMUHEL GOSPELS
HAD BEEN OFFERED.

AND I WANTED TO HAVE
A WITNESS WITH ME

BECAUSE MR. FOLTER
COULD HAVE TOLD ME ANYTHING

AND AFTERWARDS COULD HAVE
DENIED EVERYTHING.

[KLINE]
BILL HONAN HAD HEARD ABOUT
THE RUMORS OF REAPPEARANCE

OF THE QUEDLINBURG
TREASURES,

AND HE REFERRED
WILLI KORTE TO ME.

SO WILLI SEARCHED
FOR THE TREASURES,

AND I TRIED TO MAKE SURE
THAT NO MISTAKES WERE MADE

AND THAT A LEGAL CLAIM COULD
BE BROUGHT IF HE FOUND THEM.

[KORTE]
I WENT BACK
TO FOLTER AND SAID,

"LISTEN,
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE
YOU CAN TELL ME?"

THEN, I GUESS,
FOLTER THOUGHT,

"WELL, I MEAN,
THE STORY'S OVER,

SO THERE'S NOTHING FOR ME
TO GAIN OR LOSE ANYMORE."

HE GAVE ME A COPY OF THE LETTER
THAT HE HAD RECEIVED

FROM THE BANK OFFERING HIM
THE TWO MANUSCRIPTS.

OF COURSE, IT WAS ANONYMOUS,

SO I DIDN'T KNOW FROM WHOM
THE LETTER CAME.

AND THEN FOLTER
HELPED ME FURTHER

BY OPENING AN ATLAS
WITH A MAP OF TEXAS

AND THEN PUTTING A PENCIL
UNDERNEATH THE NAME
OF WHITEWRIGHT.

I GOT ON THE NEXT PLANE
AND FLEW TO DALLAS,

DROVE INTO WHITEWRIGHT.

I STOOD IN FRONT
OF THE BANK.

AND THE QUESTION WAS,
"HOW DO I GO INTO A BANK

AND SAY, 'LISTEN, I'M LOOKING
FOR THE QUEDLINBURG TREASURE.'"

THEY TOLD ME
I HAVE TO GO DENISON.

SO I DROVE TO DENISON.

WE WERE UP IN JOHN FARLEY'S
OFFICE ONE AFTERNOON

MAKING SOME PHONE CALLS

AND THE SECRETARY
CAME UP AND SAID,

"YOU HAVE SOME VISITORS."
AND IT WAS WILLI KORTE.

I INTRODUCED MYSELF
AND WHAT I DID HAVE AT THE TIME

WAS THIS ARTICLE
FROM THE "NEW YORK TIMES,"

THIS FRONT PAGE STORY.

[SYLVESTER]
THE BUSINESS CARD
HE GAVE US WAS--

JUST KINDA HAD A BUNCH
OF SCRATCH THROUGH
MARKS AND STUFF,

AND SO WE REALLY
DIDN'T KNOW WHO THEY WERE.

[KORTE] THE GIVEAWAY WAS THAT
I GAVE FARLEY THE ARTICLE

FROM THE "NEW YORK TIMES,"
THE FRONT PAGE STORY.

IT WAS ABOUT
THE SAMUHEL GOSPELS.

AND THE WAY HE READ IT...

HE READ IT WITH INTEREST.

I WAS CONVINCED
THAT HE READ IT

THE WAY SOMEBODY READS IT
WHO HAS A CONNECTION

TO WHAT IT IS HE'S READING.

AND THEN HE CALLED IN
SYLVESTER AND SAID,

"HEY, YOU GOTTA COME IN HERE
AND LISTEN TO THIS STORY.

AND CLOSE THE DOOR."

WHEN THEY LEFT,

WE THOUGHT, "WE NEED
TO COME UP WITH A PLAN,"

BECAUSE IT HAD BEEN
IN THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS,

LIKE THAT MONDAY MORNING.

SO WE CONTACTED A LAW FIRM,
HAYNES AND BOONE IN DALLAS.

WE HINTED AT WHAT
IT COULD POSSIBLY BE,

AND COULD THEY
POSSIBLY MEET WITH US?

THE ATTORNEY THAT SPECIALIZED
IN ART WAS VERY EXCITED.

SHE SAID SHE HAD SEEN
THE ARTICLE IN THE PAPER

AND IT MENTIONED
WHITEWRIGHT, TEXAS.

SO AND SHE SAID,
"I WONDERED WHEN SOMEBODY
WOULD COME UP WITH THIS."

AND SHE NEVER DREAMED
THAT SHE WOULD HAVE
THE OPPORTUNITY

TO BE THE ATTORNEY
WORKING ON THE CASE.

[KORTE]
I SUBSEQUENTLY
GOT A CALL

TO MEET
WITH THE LAWYERS
IN DALLAS,

WHO INITIALLY
REPRESENTED THE BANK

AND THEN REPRESENTED
THE BANK AND THE FAMILY.

AND I THINK I WAS SITTING
ACROSS THE TABLE

WITH FOUR OR FIVE LAWYERS

WHO PRETTY MUCH TOLD ME,

"YOUNG MAN, THERE'S NOTHING
REALLY HERE TO PURSUE.

THIS IS A LOST CAUSE."

AND THEY GAVE ME,
I REMEMBER ALL KINDS OF--

ALL KINDS OF LEGAL
EXPLANATIONS

WHY UNDER TEXAS LAW,

U.S. LAW,
INTERNATIONAL LAW,

THERE WAS NOTHING
THAT THE CHURCH

OR ANYBODY ELSE COULD REALLY
SUCCESSFULLY PURSUE.

AND I LISTENED
TO ALL THIS

AND I JUST SAID,
"LISTEN TO ME,

THIS LOOKS LIKE
JUST STOLEN PROPERTY.
NOTHING ELSE."

BILL HONAN, OF COURSE,
WAS STILL CONTINUING

THE RESEARCH ON THE THIEF,

SO HE WENT BACK
TO WHITEWRIGHT AND DENISON

AND CONTINUED WHAT I HAD
TO GIVE UP ON,

WHICH WAS ASKING PEOPLE
"WHO AMONGST YOU

WAS A WORLD WAR II VETERAN
WHO SERVED IN EUROPE?"

AND SO FORTH AND SO FORTH.

IT WAS A MATTER OF PURSING
A WHOLE BUNCH OF LEADS,

A LOT OF TELEPHONING

AND THEN FINALLY
TRIANGULATING,

YOU MIGHT SAY, WHERE
I PICKED UP VARIOUS HINTS.

[LOUISA MARTIN]
JOE DID GO TO NORTH TEXAS.

HE DID MAJOR IN ART.

SO HE HAD-- I DON'T KNOW
THAT HE KNEW NECESSARILY

WHAT THESE THINGS WERE.

BUT HE KNEW
THEY WERE PRETTY.

I MEAN, HE HAD GOOD TASTE.
THERE IT IS.

AND I DON'T KNOW THAT HE KNEW
THEY WERE THAT VALUABLE.

IT WASN'T LIKE, YOU KNOW,
"I BROUGHT THEM HOME,

AND THEY'RE WORTH
A MILLION DOLLARS,"
OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

IT WASN'T ANY
OF THAT SORT OF THING.

IT'S JUST THAT'S
THE WAY IT WAS.

[KAY BRYANT]
JOE WAS SO HAPPY
WITH HIS TREASURES

THAT HE WANTED REALLY
TO SHOW THEM OFF.

BUT HE WAS AFRAID TO.

MOST PEOPLE DIDN'T HAVE
ANY IDEA OF WHAT THEY WERE.

THEY WERE BEAUTIFUL,

BUT THEY DIDN'T KNOW
WHERE THEY CAME FROM.

ONE DAY, THIS MAN CAME IN
AND SAID HE WAS LOOKING

FOR A PICTURE
OF JOE MEADOR.

AND I SAID,
"WELL, SEEMS LIKE I REMEMBER
SOMETHING IN OUR FILE.

LET ME GO SEE WHAT I HAVE."

SO I PULLED THE FILE OUT
AND I FOUND--

I THINK THERE WERE
THREE NEGATIVES OF HIM

HOLDING SOME ORCHIDS
THAT HE GREW.

AND SO WE TALKED
A LITTLE WHILE,

AND HE SAID
HE WAS FROM NEW YORK

AND HE WAS DOING--
I REMEMBER THAT HE SAID

HE WAS DOING
SOMETHING ON ORCHIDS.

I SAID, "WELL, I DON'T KNOW
THAT WE WOULD NEED

THREE NEGATIVES OF THIS,
SO HERE, YOU CAN TAKE
ONE OF THEM

AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY
ABOUT BRINGING IT BACK."

'CAUSE HE WAS DEAD.

HE HAD DIED, ALREADY DIED,
AND I COULDN'T SEE WHY

WE WOULD NEED A PICTURE
OF A MAN WHO WAS DECEASED
WITH AN ORCHID.

SO I GAVE HIM
ONE OF THE NEGATIVES

AND THE NEXT DAY IT CAME OUT
IN THE "NEW YORK TIMES."

THE REPORTER ASKED ME
IF I HAD GONE TO SCHOOL
WITH JOE TOM.

I WAS INCENSED.
I SAID, "NO!

YOU WANT ME TO SMACK YOU?"

AND HE REALLY
JUMPED BACK A LITTLE BIT,

AND SO AFTER THAT,
SINCE I DIDN'T KNOW

THAT MUCH ABOUT THE WHOLE
MEGILLAH IN THE FIRST PLACE,

I'M SURE HE THOUGHT,
"CRAZY WOMAN."

WE WENT TO WORK THAT MORNING.
EVERYTHING WAS FINE,

AND ALL OF A SUDDEN
WE HAD ALL THESE NEWSCASTERS

BURSTING IN THE DOORS
AND WANTING TO FILM
IN THE BUILDING

AND ALL THIS,
THAT AND THE OTHER.

IT GOT TO BE A MESS.

[GOODSON]
AND THEN THERE WAS ONE PERSON
THAT LIVED OUT IN WHITE ROCK,

WHICH IS A FEW MILES--
ABOUT FIVE MILES OUTTA HERE.

AND I KNEW HIM VERY WELL.

AND HE USED TO DRIVE JOE MEADOR
TO DALLAS ALL THE TIME

AND I ASKED HIM,
AND WE CALLED HIM "SKUNK,"

AND I SAID, "SKUNK," I SAID,
"HAVE YOU HEARD ANYTHING

ABOUT THIS SO-CALLED TREASURE
STUFF AROUND HERE?"

AND HE SAYS,
"WELL, I SEEN SOME OF IT,

BUT I DIDN'T KNOW
WHAT IT WAS."

YOU SIT AROUND
ALL THE TIME

WANTING SOMETHING BIG
TO HAPPEN, YOU KNOW?

BIG MURDER CASE
OR A BIG SOMETHING,

ROBBERY OR SOMETHING,

AND THEN WHEN IT HAPPENS
YOU REMEMBER IT.

EVERYBODY KNEW JOE THOMAS.
EVERYBODY KNEW MRS. MEADOR

AND THE MEADOR FAMILY,
FOR PITY'S SAKES--

JACK, JEAN, EVERYBODY.

HE'S VERY WELL-EDUCATED.
HE-- HE KNEW HIS WAY AROUND.

HE WAS WORLDLY.

BEFORE I GRADUATED,
I WAS INVITED

UP TO HIS ONE-ROOM
APARTMENT.

AND WHILE I WAS THERE,
HE CASUALLY TALKED ABOUT

THE GERMAN JEWELS.

THEY WERE JUST OUT
ON THE TABLES.

AND I DON'T KNOW
HOW MUCH WAS THERE.

THEY WERE THERE AND HE WAS
VERY OPEN ABOUT SHOWING THEM.

HE HAD A LOT OF ART
IN THE APARTMENT.

AND THERE WAS A PAINTING
THAT SOMEBODY DID OF HIM

IN, I IMAGINE,
THE EARLY '40S.

AND IT WAS LIKE A MILITARY--
HE WASN'T IN MILITARY GARB,

BUT IT SET
THE STYLE FOR JOE--

ALL ALONG, HE WAS--
HE LIKED TO DRESS FANCY.

HE HAD BEAUTIFUL HAIR
THAT HE KEPT PERFECTLY COIFFED.

AND-- ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT I REMEMBER AS--

TOWARDS THE END OF HIS LIFE,
AFTER HE HAD GOTTEN CANCER,

HE HAD TO GET A WIG.

BUT HIS WIG
SORT OF WENT ASKEW.

AND WE VERY GENTLY TRIED
TO STRAIGHTEN IT FOR HIM

WITHOUT HIM REALIZING.

BECAUSE HE WAS A SENSITIVE
AND PROUD, PROUD MAN.

AND-- VAIN.

THIS IS SOME OF THE STUFF
THAT [UNINTELLIGIBLE] PAINTED.

THEY WERE VERY ARTISTIC.

AND THAT--
THAT'S ONE OF HERS.

THAT IS NOT.

THAT IS.

AND BASICALLY
ALL THIS OVER HERE

IS FROM THE MEADOR FAMILY.

GRANDMOTHER USED TO TEACH
ART CLASS OUT HERE

IN THIS SHED BEHIND US.

MY GRANDMOTHER
WAS VERY INTO PAINTING,

AND SHE WOULD PAINT CHINA.

SHE WAS ALWAYS PAINTING--
PAINTING SOMETHING.

THIS WAS THE STEP
UP TO THE GREENHOUSE.

YOU HAVE THE--
THAT'S WHERE SHE TAUGHT

HER ART CLASSES IN THAT--
IN THAT BUILDING RIGHT THERE.

I GUESS THE BEST WAY
TO DESCRIBE JOE

WOULD BE A RENAISSANCE MAN.

JOE WAS AN INTELLIGENT MAN.

DIDN'T SAY A LOT,
BUT WAS THE KINDA GUY

THAT WHEN HE TALKED,
YOU LISTENED.

OF COURSE, I WAS--
I WAS A LITTLE CHILD

AND SO I WAS RAISED
TO LISTEN ANYWAY.

BUT HE-- HE WAS A VERY,
VERY, VERY--

SEEMED LIKE HE HAD
A LOT OF WISDOM.

HE ALWAYS WANTED
TO BE THE BEST.

OR HE WANTED
TO BUY THE BEST.

IF IT MEANT SAVING
FOR A LONG TIME

TO BUY SOMETHING,
HE WOULD DO THAT

TO GET THE BEST.

WITH HIS ORCHIDS,

HE TENDED THOSE ORCHIDS...

DAY IN, DAY OUT,
ALL THE TIME.

ONE OF JOE'S PRIMARY PURPOSES
DURING THAT TIME PERIOD

WAS TAKING CARE OF HIS MOM.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHY HE MOVED
BACK HERE LATER IN LIFE--

SIMPLY TO TAKE CARE OF HER.

THEY WERE VERY, VERY CLOSE.

BUT I'M GONNA SAY
SOMETHING AWFUL HERE.

AREN'T MOST GAY MEN?

[BRYANT]
SOME PEOPLE DIDN'T LIKE
TO THINK ABOUT THAT,

BUT HE WAS.

HE NEVER BOTHERED ANYBODY--
ANYBODY HERE IN WHITEWRIGHT.

AND THAT WAS HIS LIFESTYLE,
AND THAT IS FINE, YOU KNOW,

HE'S A GROWN MAN.
I DON'T--

WELL, IT'S JUST NONE
OF MY BUSINESS

WHAT HE DOES
ON THE WEEKEND.

HE WASN'T-- IT WASN'T
EVER IN YOUR FACE.

IT WASN'T EVER, "I'M A GAY MAN
AND HERE'S MY BOYFRIEND."

IT WAS JUST--
IT WAS VERY--

HE WAS VERY DISCREET
WITH THAT.

[MATT COOK]
I REMEMBER READING OR HEARING
THAT JOE WOULD WALK AROUND

IN DISGUISES
NOT TO BE SEEN,

AND DRESSED UP
IN ODD CHARACTERS

AND THAT WAS SO FAR
FROM THE TRUTH

THAT HE WAS THIS--

HAD THIS DUAL PERSONALITY
OR DUAL LIFE.

NO, HE DIDN'T HAVE
A DUAL LIFE.

HE WAS COMPASSIONATE,
HE WAS TRUE TO HIS WORD.

FOR THEM TO MAKE HIM OUT
AS THIS PERSON THAT THEY DID,

THIS GRAND ART CONNOISSEUR,

IT'S JUST--
IT'S IRRATIONAL.

IT'S IRRATIONAL
AND IT'S NOT TRUE.

JOE SHOWED YOU
WHAT HE WANTED TO SHOW YOU,

AND IN MANY CASES I THINK WHAT
HE THOUGHT YOU WANTED TO SEE.

NOW, BILL HONAN ENDED UP GOING
TO THE LIBRARY IN DENISON

WHERE THEY HAD
THESE OBITUARIES,

AND THERE WAS
JOE MEADOR'S OBITUARY.

SO BILL HONAN HAD
A MOST LIKELY CANDIDATE,

BUT HE DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER
JOE MEADOR WAS THE JOE MEADOR

WHO WAS IN THE UNIT
IN THE ARCHIVES,

WHICH IS WHY HE ASKED ME,

SO HE COULD PUT
ONE AND ONE TOGETHER

AND THEN HAVE A STORY.

I, AT THE SAME TIME,
WAS NOW NEGOTIATING

WITH THE LAWYERS IN DALLAS

WHO WERE EAGER TO KEEP THIS
ALL CONFIDENTIAL.

SO I HAD A SERIOUS PROBLEM.

SO ALL I GAVE TO BILL HONAN
WAS THE INFORMATION

FROM THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES,

WHICH IS A MATTER
OF PUBLIC RECORD ANYWAY.

I MEAN, HE COULD HAVE
DONE IT HIMSELF.

I GAVE IT TO BILL
WITH THE STRONG REQUEST

TO NOT RUN THE STORY
UNTIL MONDAY.

OF COURSE,
THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN,

PARTICULARLY WHEN
IT'S A FRONT-PAGE STORY,

AND BILL RIGHTFULLY SAID,
"WE DON'T WANT TO LOSE

THIS STORY
TO ANYBODY ELSE,"

PARTICULARLY
THE DALLAS PAPERS.

SO SURE ENOUGH...

WHEN WE WERE SUPPOSED TO MEET
WITH THE LAWYERS ON FRIDAY,

WE HAD THE FRONT-PAGE STORY
ON THE "NEW YORK TIMES,"

WHICH MEANT THE STORY
WAS ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

WE HAD HALF OF THE COUNTRY'S
MEDIA IN FRONT OF THE LAW FIRM.

AND I HAD REPORTERS
FOLLOWING ME TO MY HOTEL ROOM,

STANDING IN FRONT
OF MY DOOR

IN ORDER TO GET
A FOLLOW-UP STORY.

SO WE ALL GOT TOGETHER
AT THE ADOLPHUS

WAITING FOR THE LAWYERS
TO TAKE US TO THE WAREHOUSE

WHERE THE REMAINING PIECES
WERE SUPPOSED TO BE,

INCLUDING A SECOND MANUSCRIPT,

WHICH WE WE WERE SUPPOSED
TO PHOTOGRAPH

AND SEND THE PHOTOS
TO QUEDLINBURG

SO THEY COULD IDENTIFY
THE PIECES POSITIVELY.

SO WE WAITED
AND WAITED AND WAITED.

EVERYBODY WAS SORT OF
SCARED TO LEAVE

BECAUSE WE NEVER KNEW
WHEN IT WAS TIME

TO NOW GO
TO THE WAREHOUSE.

SO-- NOBODY WENT FOR DINNER
OF ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

AND THEN I THINK SHORTLY
BEFORE, WHAT, MIDNIGHT?

BILL HONAN CAME
AND TOOK ME ASIDE AND SAID,

"WILLI, I'M GONNA RUN
A STORY TOMORROW

ABOUT THE SECOND MANUSCRIPT,
WHICH HAS JUST BEEN OFFERED

IN SWITZERLAND
TO THE GERMANS."

[KLINE]
WE SAW THAT A CULTURAL
FOUNDATION OF THE STATES

HAD PURCHASED
THE SECOND BOOK,

AND SO WE FELT THAT WE WERE
DEALING WITH PEOPLE

WHO WERE CAPABLE
OF ANYTHING--

TO SELL A BOOK WHILE WE WERE
NEGOTIATING OVER IT,

IN FACT, HAD HAD
AGREEMENT ABOUT IT.

AND SO WE THOUGHT
WE HAD TO TAKE LEGAL ACTION.

[KORTE]
SO I WAS ABLE TO REACH
MINISTER GOSSLAU IN QUEDLINBURG

FROM DALLAS, TEXAS,
AND EXPLAIN TO HIM

WHAT WAS GOING ON.

I SAID, "LISTEN, WE NEED
TO GO TO COURT ON MONDAY,

AND I NEED
YOUR AUTHORIZATION."

SO HE BASICALLY ASKED ME,
"WHAT DO YOU THINK
I NEED TO DO?"

I SAID, "YOU NEED
TO AUTHORIZE ME."

[SPEAKING IN GERMAN]

AND HE SAID, "WELL, IF THAT'S
WHAT YOU THINK I NEED TO DO,

THEN THAT'S WHAT I'LL DO."

AND THEN, OF COURSE,
HE WAS A BIT CONCERNED
ABOUT MONEY.

I SAID, "LISTEN,
IT'S TOO LATE FOR THAT NOW."

SO I WAS NOW PROPERLY
AUTHORIZED,

ON THE WEEKEND
BEFORE WE WENT TO COURT.

BUT-- BUT OF COURSE
WE HAD NO MONEY.

WE WENT TO THE COURTHOUSE
AT 9:00 MONDAY MORNING

AND FILED A LAWSUIT,

AND THEN WE HAD
THE HEARING WITH THE JUDGE

ABOUT THE TEMPORARY
RESTRAINING ORDER

BECAUSE NOW, OF COURSE,
WE WERE EXTREMELY CONCERNED

THAT IF THERE WAS
ANYTHING ELSE

IT WOULD QUICKLY
LEAVE THE COUNTRY.

IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT FOR US
TO GET THE DEPOSITIONS

UNDERWAY BECAUSE WE KNEW
SO LITTLE ABOUT JOE MEADOR

AND THE FAMILY, AND THEIR WHOLE
INVOLVEMENT IN THE CASE.

THERE WAS NO BASIS
FOR TRUST

BETWEEN THE CHURCH
AND THE TEXANS.

THEY WERE COMPLETELY
DIFFERENT WORLDS.

THE WALL
HAD JUST COME DOWN.

THERE WAS REALLY
NO COMMUNICATION

BETWEEN EAST AND WEST.

NO REASONABLE EXPECTATIONS.

THE EDUCATION WE HAD
ABOUT EAST GERMANY WAS MINIMAL.

THE EDUCATION THEY HAD
ABOUT THE WEST, I'M SURE,
WAS ALL TWISTED.

THEY WERE VERY
MOSCOW-ORIENTED.

WE WERE VERY
WESTERN-ORIENTED
IN THIS COUNTRY.

WHEN WILLI AND I SHOWED UP
IN TEXAS, WE WERE VILIFIED,
PARTICULARLY WILLI,

AND THEIR LAWYERS,
THE LAWYERS FOR THE FAMILY,

WERE EXTREMELY HOSTILE.

OH, YEAH, WILLI KORTE.

[GROANS]

I DIDN'T REALLY REALIZE
IT WAS GOING TO BE
A DEPOSITION.

I WAS A LITTLE BIT--
LITTLE BIT ANNOYED.

I WAS A LITTLE BIT ANNOYED,
AND I THINK WILLI PICKED UP
ON THAT PRETTY BIG.

HE KEPT PACING BACK AND FORTH
AND STANDING UP,

AND I'M GOING,
"OH, LORD."

HUGE BIG LONG
CONFERENCE TABLE.

GERMAN LAWYERS
ON ONE SIDE,

OUR LAWYERS AND MYSELF
ON THE OTHER.

AND IT WAS JUST QUESTION
AFTER-- AND THEY WOULD--

THEY WOULD ASK A QUESTION
AND YOU'D ANSWER

AND THEN THEY'D
ASK IT IN ANOTHER WAY,

AND YOU'D ANSWER.

AND THEN THEY'D ASK IT
IN ANOTHER WAY.

THE MAN FROM GERMANY,
WILLI KORTE,

HE CONTACTED US.

I GOT A LETTER
FROM SOMEBODY,

ONE OF THE PRIESTS
OR SOMETHING IN GERMANY.

HE SAID,
"IF YOU HAVE THESE THINGS,
GOD WILL GET YOU."

AND I CALLED THE ATTORNEY
AND I SAID, "YOU TELL HIM TO--
WHERE HE CAN PUT IT."

WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO TELL?
I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT'S AT.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.

I DON'T KNOW HOW IT GOT THERE.
I DON'T KNOW WHEN THEY
DECIDED TO DO THIS.

THERE WAS NEVER A BASIS
FOR TRUST BETWEEN US
AND THE FAMILY.

ONE OF THE FAMILY MEMBERS
CAME OUT AND SAID TO ME--

"A ONE-EYED ASS COULD'VE
FOUND THOSE TREASURES."

THEY ASKED WHERE
I GOT THE STUFF,

WHEN DID HE GIVE ME
THE STUFF,

WHAT DID HE TELL ME
ABOUT THE STUFF?

IT ABSOLUTELY WORE
JEAN AND JACK OUT.

AND OF COURSE,
AND MOM, TOO.

THEY WERE-- THEY WERE UP
IN AGE AT THAT TIME.

AND I HONESTLY DO NOT--
WELL, MATTER OF FACT,

I CAN PRETTY VEHEMENTLY SAY
THAT IF THEY HAD KNOWN

THE FIRESTORMS
THEY WOULD HAVE CAUSED,

THIS WOULD HAVE--
THIS CAUSED--

THEY WOULDN'T
HAVE TOUCHED IT,

'CAUSE IT WAS A MESS.

I MEAN, IT WAS--
IT WAS A MESS.

AND IT WASN'T JUST A MESS
FOR A MINUTE,

YOU KNOW, MAMA'S-- MAMA'S
TALKING ABOUT IT IF I--

I COULD GO TO PRISON.
I'M LIKE, "WELL, WHAT'S--

FOR WHAT?"

THE STORY THAT I UNDERSTOOD
WAS THAT HE HAD--

THE PRIEST AT THE CHURCH
HAD APPROACHED HIM

AND ASKED HIM TO GET
THIS GROUP OF VALUABLES
OUT OF THE COUNTRY,

AND THAT HE WOULD
GET WITH HIM LATER
AND GET THEM BACK.

[CADENHEAD]
THIS IS WHERE PAGE BY PAGE,

YOU SLOWLY GET TO SEE
THE DEPTH OF THE MAN.

AS CHAOTIC AS IT WAS,

PERHAPS FOR HIM
TO TAKE ALL OF THIS

FROM QUEDLINBURG, GERMANY
FOR WHATEVER REASON--

IN HIS OWN MIND,
YOU KNOW, I CAN SEE IT.

I CAN SEE IT
IN HIS PERSONALITY

THAT HE REALLY
BELIEVED IT.

HE REALLY BELIEVED
IN HIS OWN MIND,

THAT HE WAS SAVING PART
OF CIVILIZATION.

[DICK DEQUERIN]
HE WAS AN INTERESTING FELLOW.

I NEVER KNEW HIM,
BUT EVERY DESCRIPTION

OF JOE MEADOR WAS THAT
HE WAS VERY AESTHETIC,

AND APPRECIATED
THE HISTORICAL VALUE

AND BEAUTY
OF THE THINGS HE TOOK.

BUT HE DID TAKE THEM.

THIS IS NOT REALLY
LIKE WAR BOOTY,

LIKE CAPTURED GUNS
OR UNIFORMS OR HELMETS
OR THINGS LIKE THAT.

THIS WAS REAL TREASURE.

AT THE END OF THE WAR,
WHEN HE WAS IN THE SOUTH
OF FRANCE

AND STOLE SILVERWARE.
FOR THAT, HE GOT
COURT-MARTIALED.

SO, WAS HE
A PATHOLOGICAL THIEF?

OR WAS IT THIS
SORT OF ATTITUDE

THAT THE SPOILS OF WAR
GO TO THE VICTOR?

I DON'T KNOW.

THE WITNESS ACCOUNTS WE GOT
WERE THAT HE WAS A STEP BEYOND

THE NORMAL SOUVENIR HUNTING.

HE HAD BEEN
EDUCATED IN ART.

HE TAUGHT ART
WHEN HE CAME HOME.

HE OPERATED THIS SMALL
HARDWARE STORE WITH HIS BROTHER.

WE HAD THIS IMPRESSION
THAT HE AND HIS BROTHER

HAD SEPARATE DESKS
AT THIS HARDWARE STORE,

AND SEPARATE ENTRANCES
AND SEPARATE SAFES,

'CAUSE THE BROTHER
DISAPPROVED

OF HIS HOMOSEXUALITY.

IN THE PICTURES
THAT YOU SEE OF HIM,

LIKE FROM, "TEXAS MONTHLY,"
SHOW A VERY COMPLEX,

INTELLIGENT,
WELL-EDUCATED PERSON.

WAS TORMENTED, APPARENTLY,
ABOUT THESE TREASURES.

TRIED TO KEEP THE QUEDLINBURG
TREASURES TOGETHER,

BUT MAYBE LIVED OFF
OTHER THINGS HE STOLE.

HE DIDN'T NECESSARILY
TALK ABOUT IT,

BUT HE HAD WRITTEN
EXTENSIVELY...

LETTERS HOME,

IF NOT DAILY, WEEKLY, THE WHOLE
ENTIRE TIME HE WAS IN THE WAR.

AND WE HAD READ
THOSE LETTERS OVER THE YEARS.

I MEAN, THEY WERE THERE.
THEY WERE BEAUTIFUL LETTERS.

HE WAS VERY DESCRIPTIVE
IN HIS WRITING.

AND I'D READ A LETTER
AT SOME POINT IN THE GAME

THAT HE HAD MAILED HOME
SOME OBJECTS.

"PUT 'EM UP,
AND I'LL TAKE CARE OF IT
WHEN I GET HOME."

AND THEY CAME IN A WOODEN BOX
WITH BROWN PAPER AROUND IT.

AND AFTER EVERYBODY DIED,
THE BOX WAS STILL IN THE ATTIC.

I MEAN, WE FOUND IT,
AND IT WAS WRITTEN ON,

HE'D WRITTEN
ON THIS WOODEN CRATE.

THAT'S APPARENTLY HOW JOE
GOT THESE THINGS BACK TO TEXAS.

HE MAILED THEM.

[BETH COOK BARNES]
TWO BOOKS, A BOX, YOU KNOW,
IT HAD SOME OTHER THINGS

ON THE BOX
UP IN THE ATTIC.

YOU KNOW, I DON'T EVEN KNOW--
I DON'T EVEN KNOW

WHAT HAPPENED TO IT.

SO IF HE MAILED THINGS,
THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN THINGS

THAT WERE MAILABLE--

IN OTHER WORDS,
IT'S HIGHLY UNLIKELY

THAT HE MAILED
LARGE SIZE PAINTINGS.

[DEGUERIN]
I'M NOT TRYING TO JUSTIFY
WHAT JOE MEADOR DID,

BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE
WERE DOING THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND HE BUNDLED THIS UP,
AND SENT IT BACK.

YOU KNOW, THE U.S. ARMY,
THEY COULD HAVE TAKEN

A LOOK AT IT
TO SEE WHAT IT WAS.

AND MAYBE THEY DID,
AND JUST DIDN'T CARE.

THERE WERE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE
THAT WERE INVOLVED IN THIS.

HE COULDN'T HAVE
DONE IT BY HIMSELF,

AND DIDN'T DO IT
BY HIMSELF.

THAT'S NOT TO CAST
BLAME ON ANYONE ELSE,

IT'S JUST,
IT'S A FACT.

[CADENHEAD]
I DON'T KNOW WHAT
I WOULD HAVE DONE,

BUT I VERY WELL MIGHT HAVE
DONE THE SAME THING.

BUT I CAN'T JUSTIFY
WHAT JOE DID.

AND WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT A CATHEDRAL,

A CHURCH,
A THOUSAND-YEAR-OLD
COLLECTION.

IT JUST GOES ON AND ON.

I KNEW THAT MY EFFORTS
HAD BEEN SOMEWHAT SUCCESSFUL

IN FLUSHING OUT THE SECOND
MANUSCRIPT, SO TO SPEAK,

BUT IT WAS IN SWITZERLAND,

SO THERE WAS NOTHING ELSE
TO DO IN DALLAS.

NOW THAT LEFT ME
WITH THE REMAINING PIECES,

WHICH INDEED
I STILL HADN'T SEEN.

SO BY THEN WE HAD A TEMPORARY
RESTRAINING ORDER

ON SOMETHING I HAD
NO IDEA WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT'S WHY THEN
WE WENT TO--

WHEN WE FINALLY WENT
TO DENISON TO THE BANK

WITH THE FEDERAL MARSHALS,

ALL THE EXCITEMENT
AND TENSION

WAS BACK
ON MY SHOULDERS,

BECAUSE NOW IT WAS
THE MOMENT OF TRUTH

WHETHER WHAT FARLEY WAS BRINGING
UP IN HIS CARDBOARD BOX

FROM THE FILE CABINET,
NOT FROM-- NOT FROM THE SAFE,

BUT FROM THE FILE CABINET
WHERE HE HAD KEPT IT--

WAS ACTUALLY ANYTHING--
IT HAD ANYTHING TO DO
WITH QUEDLINBURG.

THE JUDGE HAD
AN APPROVED LIST OF PEOPLE

WHO WERE ALLOWED
TO ATTEND THE INSPECTION.

AND SO WE HAD
ALL THESE ATTORNEYS

REPRESENTING THE MEADORS,

WE HAD OUR ATTORNEYS
REPRESENTING THE BANK,

AND THEN WE HAD WILLI KORTE
AND THE ATTORNEYS

REPRESENTING
THE GERMAN CHURCH.

THEY BROUGHT ART HANDLERS
WHO WORE ALL THESE WHITE GLOVES

AND THEY VERY DELICATELY
HANDLED ALL THESE ARTIFACTS.

THEIR INTENT WAS TO VERIFY
THAT THESE WERE INDEED

THE TREASURES
THAT WERE IN QUESTION.

AND OUR QUESTION WAS,
WELL, JUST BECAUSE THEY SAY

THESE ARE THE TREASURES,
HOW DO WE KNOW IT REALLY IS?

WHAT PROOF DO WE HAVE
THAT THEY HAVE A CLAIM?

AND AS IT TURNED OUT,
THEY BROUGHT A NOTEBOOK

THAT HAD 8X10
BLACK AND WHITE PHOTOGRAPHS

THAT WERE TAKEN
BY THE GERMANS

BEFORE THE U.S. AND ALLIED
OCCUPATION OF GERMANY

THEY KNEW THAT WAS COMING,
AND TO PROTECT ART,

THEY PUT ALL THIS
IN A CAVE,

AND THEY INVENTORIED IT

AND THEY TOOK PICTURES
OF EACH ITEM.

[KORTE]
THE BIG BOX WAS WRAPPED.

SO THEY TOOK IT
OUT OF THE BOX,

AND THE GUY THEN UNWRAPPED IT
AND IT SAT THERE.

THE PHOTOGRAPHER TOOK ALL THESE
MULTIPLE PHOTOGRAPHS

FROM ALL DIFFERENT SIDES.

AND OF COURSE, EACH TIME
THE FLASHLIGHTS WENT OFF,

SO IT-- IT REALLY PUT THIS--
IT PUT THE RELIQUARY

IN THIS SORT-- THIS FLASHING,
GLOWING BRIGHT LIGHT

AS IF IT HAD SORT OF
LIKE A PHOENIX,

COME OUT OF THE ASHES,
AND REVEAL ITSELF.

YOU KNOW, SOMETHING LIKE
WE HAVE IN SOME OF THESE MOVIES

WHEN SOMETHING
MIRACULOUSLY APPEARS.

[LITTLE]
I WAS ABSOLUTELY
FLABBERGASTED

AT THE QUALITY AND BEAUTY
OF THESE OBJECTS.

HERE IS SOMETHING YOU THOUGHT
HAD BEEN LOST TO HISTORY,

BUT HERE THEY WERE
BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE,

BECAUSE THEY'D SURVIVED.

[SYLVESTER]
ONCE WILLI SAW, HE KNEW THAT
HE HAD FOUND THE TREASURES.

AND IT WAS KINDA INTERESTING
TO WATCH HIS REACTION

AND I MEAN,
YEARS AND YEARS OF WORK.

AND EVERYTHING
WAS COMING TO FRUITION.

HE WAS ALMOST GIDDY TO--
TO ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO SEE IT

AND TOUCH IT AFTER ALL
THE WORK HE HAD PUT IN.

AND I COULD UNDERSTAND THAT.

THE TREASURES CAME OUT
OF THE BOX AND WE SAW

THAT WE REALLY HAD FOUND
THE QUEDLINBURG TREASURES,

AND WE SHARED A LITTLE
PRIVATE HANDSHAKE--

THAT WE HAD REALLY DONE
WHAT WE HAD SET OUT TO DO.

AND THAT WAS REALLY THE MOMENT
THAT I HAD BEEN WAITING FOR

ALL THOSE YEARS, BASICALLY,
BECAUSE NOW I HAD CONFIRMATION

THAT ALL THIS EFFORT,
ALL THIS RISK

THAT WE ALL HAD TAKEN,
HAD BEEN WORTH IT.

RIGHT OVER HERE,
SEE THE DOOR?

AT THE BACK OF THE BANK
JUST ACROSS THE STREET

IS WHERE THE MEADORS,
AND THEIR LAWYER,

AND THEIR PEOPLE CAME OUT.

THEN THEY LOADED THEM
IN THIS VAN

AND TOOK OFF TO DALLAS.

WE WERE KINDA GLAD
TO SEE THEM GO.

WE WERE AFRAID SOMEBODY
MIGHT HOLD THEM UP

OR SOMETHING,
YOU KNOW, IN THE--

WHILE THEY WERE
COMING OUT.

BUT ANYWAY, IT WAS JUST
RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET.

WELL, WILLI AND I WENT
TO GERMANY TOGETHER...

SEVERAL MONTHS LATER.

AND WE HAD A SERIES
OF MEETINGS

IN BONN AND BERLIN,

QUEDLINBURG, MAGDEBURG,
BECAUSE THE CASE

NEEDED TO BE REGULARIZED.

AND SO I WAS PRESENT
AT THE MEETING

WHERE HE WAS FIRED
FROM THE CASE.

I SPOKE WITH THE HEAD
OF THE CULTURAL AFFAIRS
DEPARTMENT

AT A TIME WHEN WE HAD REACHED
THIS SORT OF LEVEL

WHERE I HAD BEEN TO TEXAS.

AND I SAID, "NOW WE HAVE
TO GET SERIOUS ABOUT IT."

THEY TRIED
TO DISCOURAGE ME.

THEY THOUGHT IT WAS
POLITICALLY A BAD IDEA

TO DO THAT,
MEANING TO--

FOR THE GERMANS TO PURSUE
AN AMERICAN SOLDIER

AND ACCUSE HIM
OF BEING A THIEF.

SO MY RELATIONSHIP
WITH THE FOLKS

WHO HAD INITIALLY
ENCOURAGED ME

AND SAID, "GO AHEAD,
THAT WOULD BE INTERESTING,"

THEN WERE THE SAME PEOPLE
WHO REALLY DIDN'T WANT
TO DEAL WITH ME.

AFTER WILLI WAS FIRED,
HE CONTINUED TO WANT
TO TALK TO ME.

AND WE COMMUNICATED
ONCE IN A WHILE

ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON
WITH THE CASE,

BUT SINCE HE WAS NOT
PART OF THE TEAM,

I COULDN'T SHARE CLIENT
INFORMATION WITH HIM

OR CONFIDENCES OR STRATEGY.

AND I COULDN'T STOP HIM

FROM GOING TO THE PRESS.

WHEN WE SETTLED THE CASE,
HE MADE IT KNOWN

THAT HE WAS NOT ENTHUSIASTIC
ABOUT THE SETTLEMENT.

SO I THINK HE MAINTAINED
HIS OWN INDEPENDENT POSTURE.

I CAN'T SAY THAT I KNOW
EVERYTHING HE WAS DOING, THOUGH.

[BRYANT]
I WENT TO THE--
HIS FEDERAL TRIAL

THAT THEY HAD AT SHERMAN.

WE HAD AN OLD JUDGE
UP THERE NAMED BROWN

AND HE ASKED
THE PROSECUTOR,

"HOW COME YOU WAS THAT LONG
GETTING IT DONE?"

SHE SAYS, "WELL, THERE
WASN'T ANY RUSH ON IT."

THEY SAID, "YES, THEY ARE WITH
THE STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS.

IT SAYS IT'S DONE RUN OUT."

HE DISMISSED THE CASE.

AND BOY, YOU TALK
ABOUT SOME MIGHTY MAD,

THAT GAL WAS MAD.

SHE LOST HER CASE RIGHT THERE
IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY.

AND THE WHOLE TOWN WAS IN
THAT COURTROOM JUST ABOUT.

THE STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS
HAD RUN, AND THAT'S A LAW

THAT'S WRITTEN
TO GUARD AGAINST

PROSECUTIONS

WHEN THE CASE
HAS BECOME SO OLD

THAT THE WITNESSES
HAVE LOST THEIR MEMORY

OR EVIDENCE IS HARD
TO COME BY

OR MEMORIES FADE
AND EVIDENCE GOES AWAY.

IT WAS NOT EASY.
IT WAS A VERY CLOSE CALL.

BUT I'M PROUD TO SAY
THAT HE DID

EXACTLY WHAT WAS RIGHT
AND THE FIFTH CIRCUIT AGREED.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE--
AND HONAN DID IT,

HE SAID, "WELL,
IT'S A TECHNICALITY."

BUT THE OLD-- THE OLD SAW
AMONG LAWYERS IS,

"A TECHNICALITY IS A LAW
THAT THE OTHER SIDE
DIDN'T RESEARCH."

AND WE DID.

THE LAW IS THE LAW.

IT'S NOT A TECHNICALITY.

[BARNES]
WELL, MOTHER ALWAYS
LAUGHED AND SAID,

"THE BIG PICKLE BUILDING
DOWNTOWN-- THE BIG BUILDING

DOWNTOWN DALLAS
WITH THE GREEN LIGHTS ON,
THAT WE BOUGHT FIVE FLOORS.

SO, YEAH, THE LAWYERS
GOT A BIG CHUNK OF THAT.

AND THEN THE I.R.S.
GOT A BIG CHUNK.

SO IT WASN'T AS LUCRATIVE
AS IT LOOKS LIKE

ON PAPER, MAYBE.

JOE HAD GIVEN ME A HEART,
A SILVER HEART.

AND-- I HAD A HOUSE DOWN
IN EAST TEXAS THAT WE RENTED.

AND IT LAID
ON THE COFFEE TABLE,

AND WAS DECORATION
ON THE COFFEE TABLE

IN MY RENT HOUSE
FOR ABOUT TWO YEARS.

AND WHEN I GOT
THE CALL THAT SAID,

"HEY, THEY WANT ANYTHING
AND EVERYTHING

THAT JOE'S EVER GAVE YOU
OR ANYTHING THAT MIGHT BE--"

AND BY THAT TIME WE HAD A LIST
OF WHAT THE ITEMS WERE.

AND THERE WAS A SILVER
HEART LISTED.

AND SO I HAD TO CALL
MY RENTER AND SAY,

"HEY, YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT
TAKE THAT HEART

AND PUT IT IN A DRAWER
TILL I CAN GET DOWN THERE
AND GET IT."

AND, YOU KNOW, AND IT HAD--
IT HAD A LITTLE CLOCK
ON THE INSIDE,

AND I'D PUSH ON THE CLOCK,
TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IT SAID.

AND-- NOW I PROBABLY DAMAGED
THINGS I SHOULDN'T HAVE,

BUT, OH, WELL.

YOU KNOW, AND LIKE,
ONE OF THE FINAL NUMBERS

WAS $354 MILLION DOLLARS.

AT ONE POINT
THAT'S WHAT THEY SAID.

AND IT'S LIKE,
"FOR THIS? WOW."

AND WE HAD IT
ALL THESE YEARS.
WHO KNEW?

WHO KNEW?

IT-- NORMAL PEOPLE
DON'T HAVE THAT.

AND SO-- WE WERE
NORMAL PEOPLE

AND WE HAD IT.
SO IT'S LIKE HOW DO YOU--

HOW DO YOU EVEN WRAP YOUR HEAD
AROUND THAT KINDA NUMBER?

THOSE KINDS OF DECISIONS
WOULD NOT BE MADE TODAY.

THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS
FOR A GOVERNMENT

TO REWARD SOMEONE
BY PURCHASING BACK THINGS
THAT WERE STOLEN

CLEARLY FROM
AN IMPORTANT CHURCH
WITHIN THEIR COUNTRY.

I REALLY FELT LIKE
THE WHOLE THING

WAS MEANT TO BE.

I FELT LIKE IT WAS MEANT
TO BE RETURNED TO THE CHURCH

AND I FELT LIKE, EVEN THOUGH
JOE MEADOR TOOK IT...

HE PROTECTED IT,
AND MOST OF IT WAS RETURNED.

HAD IT FALLEN INTO OTHER--

I THINK HE HAD
AN APPRECIATION FOR ART

AND BY HAVING
THAT APPRECIATION,

HE PROTECTED IT,

AND IT DIDN'T--

HAD IT GONE
TO SOMEONE ELSE,

WHO KNOWS WHAT WOULD HAVE
HAPPENED TO IT?

THERE WAS NO PHYSICAL DAMAGE
AS I REMEMBER AT THE TIME.

I TOOK EXTENSIVE NOTES ON IT,
BUT I THINK THERE WAS--

THE DAMAGE WAS MINIMAL

CONSIDERING THE HARSH
TREATMENT THEY HAD.

IT WAS SURPRISING
THEY DID SURVIVE SO WELL.

IT'S NOT LIKE WE WERE TRYING
TO BE SNEAKY AND BE CROOKS,

AND GO AROUND AND MAKE
A WHOLE BUNCH OF MONEY.

IT'S JUST-- THERE WERE
SOME FINANCIAL ISSUES.

MAYBE THESE
ARE WORTH SOMETHING

AND WE THINK
THIS'LL HELP.

AND SO TO BE DONE,

SETTLED AND DONE,
YEAH, YEAH.

HOW CAN YOU
DESCRIBE SOMEBODY

THAT YOU DON'T KNOW?

YOU KNOW-- FROM WHAT YOU READ
OR WHAT YOU HEAR?

IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE PERSON,
WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT

TO JUDGE THAT PERSON?

IT'S CALLED GOSSIP.

GOSSIP AND HEARSAY.

JUST MY OPINION.

THERE'S ALWAYS ANOTHER
PART OF THE STORY.

I HAVE FOUND
THAT FREQUENTLY

GOOD PEOPLE
DO BAD THINGS,

AND THAT DOESN'T
MAKE THEM BAD PEOPLE.

I HAVE AN ATTITUDE ABOUT THAT
THAT EVEN THOUGH SOMEONE

MAY HAVE COMMITTED
A CRIMINAL ACT

THAT THEY DESERVE
CONSIDERATION

FOR THE WAY THAT THEY'VE LIVED
THE REST OF THEIR LIVES.

IT WAS NOT-- NOT RIGHT THAT
THIS YOUNG AMERICAN LIEUTENANT

TOOK THE THINGS
FROM THE TREASURE.

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND,
THERE WERE SO MANY

DREADFUL THINGS THAT HAPPENED
DURING THE WAR.

AND SO MANY PEOPLE
LOST THEIR LIVES.

THAT-- OH, LET HIM TAKE
THOSE OLD BIBLES.

AT LEAST I LIKE TO THINK
ABOUT A PROGRESSION

OF CULTURE TO GREATER
AND GREATER LEVELS
OF HUMANITY,

IN SPITE OF WHAT WE LEARNED
IN THE 20TH CENTURY.

AND I THINK THE CULTURAL
EXPRESSIONS OF PEOPLE--

PRESERVING THEM
AND APPRECIATING THEM,

TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THEM--
IS ONE WAY FOR US TO DO THAT.

SCHOLARS WHO HAVE STUDIED
THE MOVEMENTS OF RELICS

HAVE NOTICED THAT SAINTS HAVE
POWER OVER THEIR RELICS

AND THEY CAN MOVE
WHEN THEY WANT TO.

THEY DON'T THINK
THEY'RE GETTING

ENOUGH PRAYERS
OR ENOUGH VENERATION

FROM THE LOCAL POPULACE

SO THEY WANT TO GO
SOMEWHERE ELSE

WHERE THEY'RE GONNA BE
MORE IMPORTANT

AND THEY CAN GO
WHERE THEY WANT TO.

PEOPLE SAY,
"WELL, WHY SHOULD I CARE
ABOUT CULTURAL TREASURES?"

WELL, ONE,
THEY BELONG TO YOU.

WHETHER THEY'RE IN IRAQ,
WHETHER THEY'RE IN SYRIA,

WHETHER THEY WERE IN--

THE SOVIET UNION
DURING WORLD WAR II,

THEY'RE THE SHARED CULTURAL
TREASURE OF EVERYBODY,

WHICH IS WHY
JOE TOM MEADOR'S THEFT

OF THE QUEDLINBURG TREASURES
IS OFFENSIVE ON ALL LEVELS.

IT DIDN'T BELONG TO HIM.

IT DIDN'T BELONG
TO THE UNITED STATES.

DIDN'T BELONG
TO HIS FAMILY.

AND IT REALLY DOESN'T
BELONG TO QUEDLINBURG.

IT JUST HAPPENS TO BE THERE
WITHIN THAT CHURCH

AVAILABLE FOR PEOPLE
AROUND THE WORLD TO GO

AND SEE THESE THINGS
AND UNDERSTAND SOMETHING THAT--

THAT'S IMPORTANT GOING BACK
TO THE 9TH CENTURY

ABOUT WESTERN CIVILIZATION.
BUT IT BELONGS TO EVERYBODY.

SO WHEN YOU STEAL
SOMETHING LIKE THAT,
YOU'RE STEALING IT

FROM YOU AND ME
AND ANYBODY ELSE
THAT'S OUT THERE.

YOU DON'T OWN
THINGS LIKE THIS.

THEY OWN YOU
IF YOU STEAL THEM.

I HAD NO REASON INDEED FROM,
A, MY PROFESSIONAL SITUATION

AT THE TIME, NOR MY PERSONAL
QUALIFICATIONS TO DO THIS.

I MEAN, I WAS NOT
AN ART HISTORIAN

PURSUING ASPECTS
OF MUSEUMS' LOSSES.

HONESTLY, I DIDN'T
REALLY BRING

ANYTHING IN PARTICULAR
TO THE TABLE.

WHICH, ON THE OTHER HAND,
MAY HAVE BEEN A GOOD THING,

BECAUSE IF I WOULD HAVE BEEN
SORT OF KNOWLEDGEABLE
IN THIS AREA,

I MAY HAVE NOT HAD
THIS CURIOSITY,

THIS DESIRE TO FIND OUT.

[INTERVIEWER]
I WANT YOU TO TALK
A LITTLE BIT--

IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE
ABOUT--

THERE WERE THE TWO ITEMS
THAT WERE STILL MISSING

AND WHAT YOU THINK
MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED
TO ONE OF THEM.

ARE YOU COMFORTABLE
TALKING ABOUT THAT?

I DON'T KNOW,
I'M NOT SURE.

-[INTERVIEWER] OKAY.
-ON CAMERA, I DON'T KNOW.

JUST 'CAUSE
I DON'T WANT ANY--

I DON'T KNOW THAT
THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED.

-[INTERVIEWER] OH, OKAY.
-IT'S JUST KIND
OF A SPECULATION

AS TO WHAT--
THAT THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED.

[INTERVIEWER]
BUT IT'S NOT ANYWHERE
THAT YOU, THAT--

-IT'S NOT IN THE FAMILY?
-OH, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO.

NO, NO.

GO CHECK THE GOODWILL.

I DON'T KNOW.

I WON'T SAY A NAME.
HOW ABOUT THAT?

THERE IS A POSSIBILITY
THAT IT WAS GIVEN IN A SACK

OF OTHER COSTUME JEWELRY
TO SOME EMPLOYEES.

HOW'S THAT?
THAT'S GOOD.

* WELL, I'VE BEEN
WHERE THE SINNERS WIN *

* THEY JUST GO HOME
EMPTY-HANDED *

* AND I'VE WALKED ACROSS
THAT NARROW BRIDGE *

* OF BROKEN LIVES
AND DREAMS ABANDONED *

* NOW ON THE STREET
WHERE MOTHERS WEEP *

* I PAINT
ACROSS THIS CANVAS *

* AND ALL THE CHILDREN,
THEY ARE FAST ASLEEP, YEAH *

* NEED A BREAK NOW
FROM THIS MADNESS *

-* OH, BUT I KNOW
-* I'VE GOT SOUL OF GOLD

* I'VE GOT A SOUL OF GOLD

* I'M NEVER GONNA GROW OLD

* NEVER GONNA GROW OLD

* I'M TRYING TO HOLD ON

* I'M TRYING TO HOLD ON
BUT THEY'RE TOO HIGH *

* TOO HIGH

* TOO HIGH TO FALL,
OH YEAH *

* NOW ON THE STREET
WHERE MOTHERS WEEP *

* I PAINT
ACROSS THIS CANVAS *

* AND AS I LAY MYSELF
DOWN TO SLEEP, YEAH *

* NEED A BREAK, YEAH,
FROM THIS MADNESS *

* NEED A BREAK, YEAH,
FROM THIS MADNESS *

* NEED A BREAK, YEAH,
FROM THIS MADNESS *