All language subtitles for Cursed.Films.S02E01.Cursed.Films.The.Wizard.of.Oz.1080p.AMZN.WEB-DL.DDP2.0.H.264-NTb_track3_[eng]

What have you heard
about the legends

surrounding the making
of "The Wizard of Oz"?

- Um...

- I mean, there's just
so many rumors in general

about "The Wizard of Oz".

- Oh, we could talk
about that all day.

I mean, I've researched
this stuff

since the time I was
a little kid,

- I'll get you, my pretty.

- Definitely heard about the
burning of Margaret Hamilton.

- Yeah. Oof.

- You know, she caught fire
once unintentionally.

- I definitely know
of the makeup situation

that happened with the Tin Man.

- Heard about the Munchkin
hanging.

- I've heard that a small
person hung themselves on set.

- The list goes on and on
and on and on and on.

I think it's a part
of the legacy...

I think that when
some people look at films

that are super beloved

and they hear stories
about the difficulties

or the tragedies
that happen on set,

they then go on to ascribe
that production as "cursed",

because it's hard to hear
these stories of tragedy.

And you want to believe
that at least someone

or something is in charge

because the reality is
no one's in charge

and the universe doesn't
care about you,

but that is too crushing

to encompass with our minds.

So, we come up with ideas like
that production is cursed,

'cause it makes us feel
a little bit better

about the terrible things that
might have happened on the set.

When I was five,

I sat down and watched
"Wizard of Oz".

Everybody had a great night,

but I had the life changing
experience.

The characters and the fantasy
and the songs,

but I just kind of bought into
all of it.

You don't choose these things,
they choose you.

And that's a statement that
I think anybody watching this

who has any kind of passion
for anything can...

can comprehend.

What "The Wizard of Oz"
is about

is not a question I have
actually considered.

And that's amazing to me.

- There are lots of theories.

People thought that
the Yellow Brick Road

was something to do
with the gold standard.

Society had been through some
really difficult times

with the depression

and then the war.

People were forced to move
all over the place.

And then we still had lots
of first-generation immigrants

who'd come in
in the 1910s and 20s.

They had to leave their homes

and knew they would never
be able to go back.

Here was Judy.

She was disrupted.

She was off in a whole 'nother
world,

just like the population
of the country.

And the whole tension
was "she couldn't go home".

- Close your eyes

and tap your heels together,
three times.

- But suddenly through magic,

she is able to go home

and she is sort of
like a surrogate

for the American population.

- There's no place like home.

They went out
of the movie

with some sense of redemption.

At least Judy got home.

I think
it's about the way

in which human beings
trust each other

to lead each other
through the world.

Yeah.

'Cause the Wizard's
not inherently a bad guy,

but he has a lot of power.

And power corrupts.

That's absolutely true.

It was made in 1938

and it opened in August 17th,
1939,

and America was at the cusp
of a World War.

- Go, fly! Fly!

- Fly! Fly! Fly!

And that dark energy,

it was part of the air they
were breathing at that time.

That beat of war was going on
in the background.

I mean, and they
so much made it real

with the Winkies marching
like Nazis.

"The Wizard of Oz"

was a hopeful outcome
of that dark energy

because the witch is dead.

Dorothy gets back to Kansas.

The objects themselves
associated with the production

still have that power
over people

and an object like
the Ruby slippers

is a perfect example of that.

I've seen people just break
down in tears,

coming into this room

and seeing the ruby slippers
in real life.

You know, Dorothy Gale
is a stand-in for anybody

who's ever thought about
wanting more out of their life

or being unhappy
with their circumstances,

seeking something
over the rainbow.

Having an object
in front of you

that represents that,

it's actually very powerful.

"Wizard of Oz"
was a very difficult shoot.

There were conflicts
and re-castings

and accidents
and script problems.

- They wanted to make
a realistic film

that was a fantasy.

All of the characters suffered
through the costumes.

Dad had to eat every meal
through a straw.

The lighting was so intense.

They were dying under
those costumes.

There was a fire marshal
on the set at all times

with a light meter
going around to make sure

the set wasn't going
to catch on fire

from the heat of the lights.

There were 14 writers
and five directors

and three choreographers

and a potentially
fatal accident,

a potentially fatal reaction
to makeup.

I would imagine
you'd have to ask

any number of the cast members

who worked on
"The Wizard of Oz"

if "The Wizard of Oz"
was cursed or not.

And if you asked Buddy Ebsen,

he might tell you, yes.

His participation was cursed.

Originally Buddy Ebsen
was cast to play the Tin Man.

And he was a very popular
film actor of the time

known as the song
and dance man.

And he would've been a perfect
fit for the film.

The makeup
was pretty basic.

They used clown white

and then they dusted it
with ground up aluminum.

He found that he was starting
to have cramps

in his fingers,
or in his feet.

And then one night
it spread to his arms

and his legs
and he could not breathe.

- They were putting silver
paint on him

and they didn't realize it,
you know,

he was being poisoned.

He had been inhaling
the aluminum particles,

you know, that floated around.

They had coated his lungs.

- He went home one night.
Couldn't breathe.

Ended up in the hospital

with pneumonia
in an oxygen tent.

Unfortunately, his
participation in the film

was cut short.

And it ended up being a film

that kind of scarred him
in a way too.

Um, literally scarred his lungs

uh, because he had a tendency
toward bronchitis

for the rest of his life.

- In the early 2000's

I had a show called
"MythBusters"

and we were doing a story we
called "The Goldfinger Myth".

And it's about the actress,
Shirley Eaton,

who got painted gold
in the James Bond film,

supposedly got suffocated
by the paint.

Which she didn't.

But as part of the research
for that myth,

we came across the famous story
from "The Wizard of Oz"

that Buddy Ebsen was originally
slated to play the Tin Man.

And couldn't because
he was poisoned

by the silver paint
that they put on him

to play the Tin Man.

When we first started
to look at doing a story

about "The Wizard of Oz",

there are a few avenues
to that negative affect

and one is poison.

So, if Buddy Ebsen was poisoned
by lead in the paint,

we-we can't test that
on ourselves.

But the other main reason given

for the difficulty
with the paint

was that it cut off the oxygen

that you breathe
through your skin.

And if you paint
your whole body

um, you will somehow suffocate.

That is testable by us.

The suffocation is something
that we can creep up on.

We have an EMT on set.

We can make sure our pulse
oxygen levels are up to snuff.

And that is the aspect
of the story that we tested.

- This is the exact stuff that
they were using on the Tin Man.

Which was just pure
aluminum powder.

Now, why are you guys
feeding her oxygen?

- Her heart rate's gone up.

When most humans think
about being Buddy Ebsen

in that moment, oh, you get
to play a Tin Man.

so, they're gonna build this
elaborate costume around you.

And then they're gonna
paint you silver.

These are all the activities
of like,

the best day ever
for a 10-year-old.

And I think every one of us
intersects with that of like,

that sounds incredible.

And when you add on to that,
the idea of being poisoned

by effectively the highest
level of play, um,

that's exactly the kind of
juxtaposition

where people wanna
keep telling that story.

I think it is
certainly plausible

that Buddy Ebsen could
have had lifelong effects

from the makeup on
"Wizard of Oz".

On every single story
we did on "MythBusters",

we were working with chemicals

that could affect us
in a negative way

and we had to be able to talk
to the insurance company

about how we were going
to do it safely.

That's definitely not something

that I think was
going on in the 30s.

The snow in
the poppy field sequence

was made of some derivation
of asbestos.

Nobody thought that
this was damaging.

They were doing things
the best way they knew how,

80 years ago.

And they were doing them
as safely

as they thought they could.

A lot of the special
effects that were used

in "The Wizard of Oz"
were experimental.

They were put into
"The Wizard of Oz"

for the first time on film.

- Buddy Ebsen was a guinea pig
for a new kind of makeup

and it cost him the film.

There was another rumor

that the Munchkins
were all drunkards.

During the filming
of "The Wizard of Oz"

most of the Munchkins stayed
together at this hotel.

The rumor is that while
they were here,

they carried on in a
less-than-civilized fashion.

This hotel
will always be known

for the residence of most
of the little people

when they made the movie
uh, in 1938.

It's strange,
but I can almost hear

the Munchkin sounds

because more than a hundred
of them stayed right here

in this hotel.

I'm sure there were
a few parties.

There have been
stories for years

that there were
wild sex orgies,

that the Munchkins went crazy.

I used to hear this as a kid.

- Come on here, Larry,
let me tell you.

- You can tell me.

There were roughly
124 little people

playing the Munchkins

and the stories
about the orgies,

the drunken parties,

the misbehavior,

tend to be painted in the
broadest strokes possible

and incriminate 124 people.

There were maybe a half a dozen
or 10 who were rowdy.

And there were things
that did happen.

- One of the Munchkins
brought a gun to the set.

A sort of a notorious
little guy

by the name of Charlie Kelly.

He was jealous over his ex-wife

and she was dating another
little person.

He didn't get fired though.

They just made sure
he didn't return with uh,

another pistol.

I have to ask you about
- Of course.

- all the rumors that
have come out

and the rumors are that
all the little people

got drunk every night.

- Nah, that's so...
- No.

- That's stupid, really.
They didn't.

- Where do you think these
rumors came from, then?

- The great Judy Garland.

On a TV special in 1967,

Judy Garland said
the Munchkins

on "The Wizard of Oz" set
were-were drunks.

There was nothing like
the drunken stories

that Judy Garland sort
of pinned on them

in one of her inebriated
moments

on the "Jack Parr Show".

- They were drunks.
- They were little drunks?

- And they put them all
in one hotel room.

Not one room,
one hotel in Culver City.

- Yeah.

- And they got smashed
every night.

And they'd pick 'em up
in butterfly nets.

Because it came
from Judy Garland,

I think people may have
thought,

well, she was there.
She would know.

As much as they loved
Judy Garland,

and they really did,

the Munchkin actors had
to suffer with that story

over the years.

Um, and they-they
weren't happy about that.

- As much as I love Judy,

when she made that statement
on "Jack Parr Show",

Judy had a couple of bells
in her,

and she was trying to be funny.

And when you're trying
to be funny,

and you don't know what to say,

you're gonna pick on
the little people.

- Now I've heard stories...
- Don't you believe it.

- Really?
- That's what they all hate,

them, them stupid stories.
- That was not true.

- You mind if I say somethin'?
If I were 6-foot-tall,

I'd-I'd go to every one
of those guys

that wrote those stupid things,
you know, it was awful,

I'da grabbed up against
the wall and said,

"You know what you did?"
Bam!

- The Munchkins got really
irritated

by questions like that.

Rumors of sex orgies.
- Oh, that's a load of BS.

- While there probably
were parties,

it was nothing like

what was portrayed in the movie,
"Under the Rainbow".

"Under the Rainbow" is
a great, great, great movie

and very misunderstood.

But true movie buffs know
the truth about it.

- Hey guys, this is
Gregg Turkington

with the Victorville
Film Archive.

- And I have five copies
of that, but I brought one.

This is "Under the Rainbow".

This is sort of
the definitive making

of "The Wizard of Oz" movie.

If you like Chevy Chase,
this is one of his best movies.

And of course, Carrie Fisher,

we all love her as Princess
Leia,

but she shone bright,
not only in "Star Wars" movies,

but also here,
in "Under the Rainbow".

The true story
of the Munchkins.

I'm Steve Rash.

I'm director of a film called
"Under the Rainbow".

The film turned out
to be about um...

the Munchkins tearing
up the Culver Hotel

during the filming
of "The Wizard of Oz"

with a story overlaid

about a secret service agent,

a paranoid duke and duchess,

an assassin,

a Japanese spy,

a German little person spy.

- I, I didn't think people
would believe

that the Munchkins would be
swinging from the chandeliers,

and would tie up
the hotel manager,

and run amok.

They probably thought

that it wouldn't perpetuate
it that much,

but it did.

I had not seen
"Under the Rainbow"

in at least 20 years.

This last 12 or 14 hours

since seeing it again
after 20 years

has kind of shaken me.

I thought we were more advanced

in 1980 than this.

I was quite disappointed
at how racist,

how sexist,

how elitist

it conceptually was.

Probably some other "-ists"
as well.

Did that bother me

the day that I shot it?

I don't think so.

It bothers me like Hell today.

The only fabulous thing
about the whole experience

was meeting and working with

over a hundred little people.

In retrospect,
looking at the way

we were portraying them,

um, they should have revolted.

This film seems
to believe

that anything a small person
does is funny,

and of course,
that's not true.

- You know, I agree with you.

And one of the things
that bother me

about the use of the little
people in this movie

is that at no point
were any of them,

except for Billy Barty,
as the spy,

dignified by being made
into characters

who had personalities.

It felt a little bit
like a train wreck,

but I was the conductor.

This is probably
rationalization

because so many little people

had a wonderful experience

and made a lot of money.

I hope that makes up
for the fact

that we really didn't deal
with them

in a truthful way.

We tried to do it in a fun way
and you know,

some people think
it's hilarious.

Um, I don't anymore.

Are you a
"Wizard of Oz" fan?

- Oh yeah.

Oh yeah.

Some of the people who made it
in retrospect

may have felt bad about it.

Everything that can happen
on a film

happened to that film.

The joy you see
on the screen

in "The Wizard of Oz",

that was an illusion
created by

an awful lot of people
working awfully hard.

The studio really
was a factory.

There were 500 carpenters,

15 plumbers,

two dozen blacksmiths,

one barber,

one shoe-shine boy,

and one man in charge
of the lions.

The actors and actresses

were workers in that factory.

Mom was born
in Cleveland, Ohio, 1902.

She taught in the Boston
public schools

while she pounded the pavements
in New York.

"The Wizard of Oz" was casting.

They had thought of looking
for a beautiful witch.

She said, well,
that does it for me,

but subsequently they
changed their mind

and they wanted a quote,
"Ugly witch".

And mother said,
"Well, of course

they would've thought of me."

And she got the part.

And the-the rest was history.

People are shocked to realize

that Mom was on the screen
in "The Wizard of Oz"

only 12 minutes.

Of course, her presence

dominated the whole film.

- I remember being
incredibly scared

of the witch.

They knew what they were doing

when they cast
Margaret Hamilton.

Maybe they didn't realize

just the impact that
she would have though.

A big concern of hers

was that the kids would
believe it.

- How nice to see you,
Mr. Rogers.

- I'm so glad to see you.

I'd like you to know
my television friend,

Miss Margaret Hamilton.
- How do you do?

And so,
she spent a lot of time

trying to convince kids

that she was a kind old lady

and that was a witch
on the screen.

And that was make believe.
And they shouldn't be afraid,

- Would you try on a dress
like the one you had on?

- Yes, I'd-I'd love to.
- To show us?

- I think that would be fun.

But she tried
to stress,

especially on "Mr. Rogers",

that it was just an act.

- There's your old friend,

the Wicked Witch of the West.

- How did s--
how did she talk?

- Well, she talked like this.

It's very nice to see you.

In the 30s
and the 40s,

safety conditions
were not so great.

And uh,

Mom was badly burned
in the picture.

It's a scene where she
has arrived

in the Munchkin Village.

- When you see her entrance
into Munchkinland

in the smoke,

it's not Margaret Hamilton.

It was her double,
Betty Danko.

But they wanted Margaret
to do the disappearance.

They wanted to get it
in one shot.

They wanted to make it
look real.

So, they weren't using
her double for that.

And it was a complicated shot.

Margaret Hamilton was talking
to the Good Witch and Dorothy,

and she had to deliver
her line,

"I'll get you and your little
dog, too."

- I'll get you, my pretty,
and your little dog, too!

And whirl around

and get to that
elevator platform.

The elevator was very small.

So, she had to hit
her mark, exactly,

pull the broom straight up,

pull her elbows in

so that she could drop cleanly
through the floor.

Say the line, back up
just the right amount,

get on the platform,
pull everything in.

The smoke came up
and she dropped down,

huge burst of real flame,

But they let the fire
effect go too quickly.

And the broom caught on fire

as did the hat.

She was severely burned.

She was immediately
smothered with blankets

to put out the fire.

What she ultimately
ended up having

was third-degree burns
on her hand

and second-degree burns
on her face.

Now compounding that,

her green makeup
was copper based,

and heated copper

could begin to eat
into her skin.

They had to take her off
to the side of the set

and clean her face,
her pores completely,

of that green makeup.

And they used rubbing alcohol

and they had to press down
on these fresh burns.

Uh, Margaret Hamilton said

she could never,
ever forget that pain.

And the doctor salved her up,

wrapped her up like a mummy,

and they sent her home.

She was very
concerned

what my reaction
was going to be.

I was three years old
at that time.

She called ahead to my nanny
and said,

"Look, I'm coming home.

Tell him that I have
a new costume.

I'm gonna look
just like a mummy.

And I'm really excited
to show him this costume.

And as soon as we get home
and I get in bed,

you have to bring him in
so he can see this."

And I still remember being
brought into her room.

And here was Mom...

bandaged everywhere,

particularly all over her face

with this couple of slits
for her eyes.

And she said, "How do you like
my new costume?"

And I said, "Gee,
that was kind of neat."

And she handled
that whole situation

so that it was never
any trauma for me.

When she did go back
six weeks later,

the first thing they
wanted her to do

was a flying scene on the broom

with the smoke
coming out behind.

They said, "Maggie,
we just have this broom

with a little gasoline engine
on the back."

She was filming
a sky riding scene

and they positioned a...

a pipe that would blast fire,

right beside uh...

where she sat on the broom.

- The wardrobe man brought up
a costume to her

and said, "This is your
fireproof costume."

- She went, "Whoa."
- She just refused.

She says,
"I'm not gonna do it."

- So, Margaret Hamilton's
stunt double,

Betty Danko,
agreed to do the scene.

Betty Danko got in
the costume, the makeup,

put her on the broom,
started the wind machines.

Told her "All right, action,

push the button, Miss Danko."

And she pushed the button
and the smoke mechanism

at the back of the broom
exploded.

- That thing blew up.

- She went one direction

The broom went the other
direction.

There were flying metal pieces
that embedded in her leg.

And she was in the hospital
for a while.

Any kind of legend,
good or bad,

is going to travel.

The important thing though
is to separate the legend

and the myth from the truth.

The only way in which
the film is cursed now

is the way all of that

has been expanded upon,

and enlarged,
and lied about.

And this has been
going on for decades.

I think it's yellow journalism
to the max.

If I were just somebody
who sat at home

and watched "The Wizard of Oz"
for my own pleasure

and heard the legends,
I would say,

"Well, gee,
maybe those are true.

Gosh, did that really happen?
Fuck!"

The most famous of all
"The Oz" legends

is one of the earliest ones

that there is a Munchkin

who hung himself on the set,

and you can see him
in the background

hanging and swinging.

I've got some curses
for you if you...

if you wanna know.

Someone showed me a um,

a couple of feet of film

that was allegedly once
part of the cut

of "The Wizard of Oz"

that had been removed
when they learned

that that dark spot

up in the upper
right-hand corner,

is a Munchkin who hanged
himself from the lighting grid.

Um, I saw the black blob

that was supposedly
the dead Munchkin.

When was this?

- During the filming
of "Under the Rainbow."

I wasn't interested enough
to get out a magnifier

and-and check the validity.
I bought it.

Good story.

- It went from being a
stagehand caught on camera,

to a stagehand
who was depressed,

and hung himself on camera,

to an MGM executive

who was so despairing
of how much

"The Wizard of Oz" was costing

that he hung himself on camera,

to an actress who hung herself

because she didn't
get the part of Dorothy,

to a Munchkin who hung himself

because Judy Garland
wouldn't date him.

I get this from grade school
kids

and I don't mind it from
grade school kids,

but it's when adults
who come up to me

to say, "You know, there's
a man hanging."

And it's like....

Basically, one of
the Munchkins hung himself

on the set of
"The Wizard of Oz".

Fortunately, it was very far
in the distance

and it wasn't even noticed
at the time of the release.

It wasn't until some real
true blue film buffs

who watched the movie
enough times

happened to notice it one day.

- There's a conspiracy within
"The Wizard of Oz"

that a Munchkin, um,

hung himself in the background

during one of the scenes.

You see it right there
on film, on certain copies.

- Like what the fuck's
goin' on over there?

It's not on every copy.

You have to have the
collector's editions.

This is the one you wanna own,

because this is the only place
to actually see

the original hanging
Munchkin footage.

And of course, uh,
it's priceless,

so, I was very,
very glad to acquire it

uh, from this uh, dealer.

- Oh no, he didn't
know what he had!

If he knew what he had, he
wouldn't have sold it to me.

That, that, that we know
to be the truth.

Now, this is an edition
that collectors love, also.

It's the 50th anniversary
edition.

Unfortunately, with this,

they did find the alternate
footage with the,

the bird from the LA Zoo

and they replaced uh,

the-the hanging Munchkin
footage with that footage.

- We tried to get uh,

like, the original copy.

It's the oldest copy we found.

It's literally VHS.

And like I said, this is
the re-mastered version,

that now, they say it's a bird.

And in the original version,

it straight up looks like
a Munchkin.

Like a Munchkin.
- Munchkin.

- Munchkin.

I'm gonna show you
both versions

of "The Wizard of Oz",

of the, of the hanging
Munchkin scene,

which is one of the most
iconic in

"The Wizard of Oz" history,

if not motion, picture history.

Okay, here go, we're off
to see the Wizard now.

You see that?
That's a, that's the bird.

Let me freeze this.

You see what is obviously
an exotic bird, like an emu.

They found a big,
exotic bird.

I don't know
what the breed was,

but it was a similar size
to the Munchkin.

They put that bird in the same
corner of the room.

This was, is sound stage
number two.

And they shot the same scene,

but with a bird flapping around

and replaced it in most prints,

except for the print
that leaked out.

And this is the one
collectors wanna see.

This is the suicide
of the anonymous Munchkin.

Never been identified.
Never will be. Um.

- There!

Pfft! Dead.

His neck, neck is snapped
instantly in a hanging, so.

Look at that, swinging back
and forth. Dead.

People have shared
the footage on YouTube,

and some of these sorts
of bootleg sites.

Because of the times
in which we are our living,

there is a very "worthy" soul

who has doctored the footage

and posts it on YouTube,
as if to say,

there, you can see
it is a hanging Munchkin

and this is what it
used to look like.

And when the rumors
started to go around,

MGM took this out
and dropped in a-a bird.

Now it really is a bird.

- That's the bird they
photoshopped in, man.

I have no problem debunking
a conspiracy theory.

Like, the whole Keanu Reeves
being a reptilian.

You know, I've pretty much
debunked that one.

But this one,
I'm telling you guys, man,

it's-it's for real.

- If you watch the original,
it's for real.

- The bird is not in the...

original copy.

The bird is in
the remade copy,

and they put the bird there

to make people say, you know,
oh, it's a bird.

It's hangin' right there.

Now, that is not a bird.

There's no wings,

and it's rockin'
back and forth.

I mean, it's there.

I think there is
a great danger,

not only because it's
inaccurate or disproportionate,

but because it is omnipresent
in today's world

of looking for dreck and dark.

There is just an essential
purity

about the "Oz" story

and the "Oz" film.

It was at a time when
Judy was so excited

about making that picture

and so delighted to be
making that picture.

She was thrilled.

It was well known on the set

that if Judy cracked up
at something,

you had to take five minutes
to let her laugh it

out of her system.

And when it came time
to do her first scenes

with Burt Lahr in the movie,

these were the scenes where
they meet the Cowardly Lion

in the forest and he goes
after Toto.

- I'll get you, anyway, Peewee.

And Judy rescues,
Toto - picks up Toto

and slaps the Lion,

- Wah!

- And Burt Lahr starts to cry.

- What'd you do that for?

- Well, they could not
get this take.

They did it two or three times.

And every time Burt Lahr
started to cry

with the waterspouts
built into his wig,

and the water pouring down

and him doing his whole
cowardly lion bit.

She would crack up.

- She would break up
every time.

It is in the film.

She picks up Toto,

and she's starts to laugh,

and she pulls the dog over
in front of her face.

It is heaven,

and it's in the film.

- She couldn't stop laughing,

take, after take, after take.

- It was an expensive picture.

You know, they were running,
they had to get the scene done.

And finally, after three
or four takes of this,

Victor Fleming took her
behind the set

behind one of the trees

and he gave her a smart,
little smack across the face.

If that's how
he handled things,

well, it's too bad
he had to slap her.

He didn't punch her.
He didn't beat her.

It was just a sharp,
little, you know, "Come on.

Come to.
Get with it here".

- Well...

if-if that's what happened,
that's what happened.

Um, you know, um...

I don't know what else
to say about that.

Was it the right thing
to do?

Well, no,

probably not,
but what are you gonna do?

You've gotta get
the picture made.

It was coded into her
to want to please,

to try to give out all
the love she had inside her

in hopes that it would
come back to her.

She said,
I always felt unwanted.

And she wasn't being overly
dramatic when she said it.

She found out that her mother

had tried to have her aborted

and a doctor friend of theirs
warn them against it.

So, the mother tried
everything she could

to induce a miscarriage.

This is somebody who
didn't have the protection

within herself or in the people

who were supposed to be
taking care of her

to withstand the concrete mixer

that Hollywood could be.

When my mother started

"The Wizard of Oz",

she was 15,
when she started it

and she finished it
when she was 16.

Your body starts to change.

The character of Dorothy
of course,

was even younger in the book.

And they wanted my mom
to look like a child.

They said, "You can't gain
any weight".

She had no idea
that the studio

had asked some of the doctors

who worked at the studio,

to give her what they called

energy pills
and or pep pills,

so that she would keep

that childlike figure.

Pep pills are names
for a gradity of barbiturates

and prescription drugs.

The young pill addict can move
from sedatives like Doriden,

"red devils"

to amphetamines.

- That would cut her appetite

and that would give her
a little bit of energy.

And then when my grandmother
said she can't sleep at night,

then they gave her
a sleeping pill.

And they didn't go out
to harm her.

They didn't what
they were doing.

They had no idea
about addiction.

They had no idea about how
this would harm people.

She developed
a dependency on them

that nobody knew a dependency
was probable.

I've never
blamed the studio

for what happened to my mom

as far as the addiction

that encompassed her adult life

because the-the studio

would never go out to harm
its biggest money maker.

You were a product.

The actors were never really,

truly thought about as people.

They were part of the factory.

We know that the studio
did harm.

We know that now.

We know that amphetamines

and we know that sleeping
pills,

you don't give that to kids.

We know that.

They didn't know that then.

And even if they did,

would they have cared?

I don't know.

I don't know.

They got around the child
labor laws.

They, they did harmful things.

My mother had breakdowns
at MGM

because she went from movie
to movie, to movie,

to movie, to movie.
She never had a vacation.

But again,

I don't think you can blame
people for ignorance.

We all now know about the world
of addiction.

They didn't.

When I... started to...

dabble in the world of cocaine
and alcohol,

I realized that once
I found out

about my family history

that I fit right in.

And now that I've been
sober 34 years,

I think to myself,

that's why this happened.

It happened to her.

It happened to me.

And it was incredibly
fulfilling

to find out that I didn't
have to blame myself.

And I didn't have
to blame her.

And that I learned to forgive.

But you don't have
to learn to forget.

You hear all these
stories in Hollywood

and no matter how
you phrase it, you know,

it is something
that is kind of sad.

But part of what I love
about Judy is that she,

throughout her life,
references this time

as being the happiest
that she ever was

and how she constantly
was always trying to search

for that kind of rainbow again.

As far as Judy goes,

I-I know that this was
one of her,

you know, her best memories.

But I feel like
her experience was

much like Hollywood
has always been.

"The Wizard of Oz"
the reason I love it so much,

I have to say that that is
because of her performance.

Who she is in that movie
draws you in as a child,

and she got me hooked.

So, because of her,

I became obsessed
with this movie

and seeing her other films,

I just fell in love
with her more and more.

Do we remove some
magic from a narrative

by busting a myth
about that narrative?

I submit, no.

I submit that no one ever minds

knowing more about a subject.

You can certainly
demystify things

and still celebrate them
at the same time.

I take it as axiomatic
that humans, as explorers,

are evolutionarily driven

to find the truth of things.

We have always sent
our best and brightest

to the edge of the known
to report back what they find.

While some people may complain

that in telling the true
stories about some narrative

we're somehow reducing
some of its magic.

I don't think that's true
for most people.

I wouldn't necessarily
attach

the term "cursed" to
"The Wizard of Oz".

There were elements of it

that-that might have been
a little cursed,

but the-the blessing
that that film

was to the cast,

and to the American cinema,

I just don't think you could
call "The Wizard of Oz"

entirely cursed.

It's... that's certain.

- I think if people think
it's a sad film,

it might be...

because of what happened
to Judy Garland.

Her experience at MGM

led in some sense, at least,

to a life that it ended

in her mid-forties.

And the success I think
of "Over the Rainbow"

even now is because it...

has an emotional jolt

that ties it to Judy Garland,

looking up at the sky
and wishing

that she were over the rainbow.